Ziegfeld Theatre

141 West 54th Street,
New York, NY 10019

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VincentParisi
VincentParisi on January 3, 2005 at 2:11 pm

On a theater chat site a writer who was at the Ziegfeld to see Phantom last night(a Sunday!!) says there were about 14 people in the audience. This was built in ‘69 to be an exclusive theater not a competitor on showcase. How long can this go on?
I know I’m beating a dead horse but you guys have got to have a Todd AO anniversary festival to bring more than 20 people into the theater. Install a larger screen in front of the old one like the one you had for Cinerama in '73, get the PR and watch the crowds come. I mean have any of you who currently work for Clearview or Cablevision ever heard of Todd AO or Cinerama?
I’m probably speaking a foreign language that’s been lost.

ErikH
ErikH on January 3, 2005 at 1:34 pm

Regarding the “house allowance” for the Ziegfeld referred to in the Daily News article. Until the mid-1990s or thereabouts, Variety published the grosses for individual theaters in Manhattan, and those entries often included the weekly “nut” for that theater (“house allowance” in Variety-speak). The Ziegfeld’s weekly “nut” was in the $30,000 range; higher than any other film theater in Manhattan, including the Astor Plaza. As that figure must be at least 7-8 years old, I assume that the Ziegfeld’s “nut” is significantly higher now.

I doubt that the current run of “Phantom” is clearing the weekly “nut”; I attended an early evening Ziegfeld showing on a weekday between Christmas and New Year’s and there weren’t more than several dozen people in the audience.

When the Ziegfeld has an NYC exclusive, it can do huge business; during the early weeks of “Chicago”’s run, many showings sold out hours in advance. But the “Chicago” exclusive run was an anomaly; the only other Ziegfeld exclusive in the past few years that comes to mind is the Disney animated film “Brother Bear.” It stands to reason that the revenue from rentals for special screenings/premieres is the only way that Cablevision/Clearview can keep those doors open.

Vito
Vito on January 3, 2005 at 1:30 pm

Bill, I would have to agree Phantom is not very good. Sure glad the console is gone. Thanks for letting me know. I think the Digital projection is gone as well, Phantom, although available and playing in other theatres in Digital format, is on film.

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on January 3, 2005 at 1:23 pm

“Phantom” was in scope and it did look great on the Ziegfeld screen, but something was missing from the whole enterprise compared to the Broadway version. Emmy Rossum sang beautifully, though. This was my second time seeing her at the Ziegfeld in 2004, the first being “The Day After Tomorrow”.

I agree with you, RobertR, about “Chicago”. That was a knockout when it played an exclusive run at the Ziegfeld. It felt like the good old days had returned, for a while at least.

chconnol
chconnol on January 3, 2005 at 12:40 pm

With an over the top director like Joel Schumacher at the helm of “Phantom” what did anyone expect? But in a place like The Ziegfeld, it’s the only place I’d even consider seeing something like that (and I won’t).

RobertR
RobertR on January 3, 2005 at 12:24 pm

Gone are the days sadly where Broadway shows make great musicals like Oklahoma and Sound of Music. I did love Chicago though. Was Phantom in scope?

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on January 3, 2005 at 11:58 am

Vito: I was there on New Year’s Eve and, sure enough, the control console is gone. It was replaced by the new seats. Phantom of the Opera was not so hot, unfortunately. What was dramatic and compelling on the Broadway stage becomes no big deal in the movie version. During the more boring moments I’m glad I had the Ziegfeld’s walls and ceiling to look at!

Warren G. Harris
Warren G. Harris on January 3, 2005 at 7:05 am

The present Ziegfeld is not on the same site as the original Ziegfeld, but just west of it, between 54th and 55th Streets. The original Ziegfeld was on the site of a current Sixth Avenue office tower, and had its entrance on Sixth Avenue.

chconnol
chconnol on January 3, 2005 at 6:50 am

Here’s the article from the NY Daily News. These links eventually go away and you can’t read the article later on.

It’s not the most hard hitting article but at least The Ziegfeld is getting some press.

Ziegfeld defies multiplex trend
BY ETHAN SACKS
DAILY NEWS WRITER
Monday, January 3rd, 2005

When “The Phantom of the Opera” opened recently at the Ziegfeld Theatre, fans of New York’s largest single-screen movie theater hoped the musical’s song, “Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again,” didn’t prove prophetic.
Known as the place to have big premieres in the city, the Ziegfeld is in its own cinematic drama, fighting for its financial life against the more popular multiplexes. While Clearview Cinemas, which owns the 35-year old theater, shows no signs of giving up without a fight, it’s clearly defying the trend.

The number of single screen theaters in the U.S. dipped to 1,684 last year from 2,280 in 2001, said Jim Kozak, spokesman for the National Association of Theater Owners. Multiplexes have changed the way movies are watched – from large, communal events to convenient ways of filling two hours.

“There’s just something about those old single-screen theaters that are just so stately and interesting and harkens back to a different time,” says Paul Dergarabedian, president of the movie trade group Exhibitor Relations.

“But if the business model is that teenagers love the stadium seating and they want to have a bunch of choices at the multiplex where they can decide to see one among ten different film, that’s where the business is heading. The profitability of those theaters will dictate if they stay in business or go the way of the dinosaur.” Degarabedian said.

The fossilized remains of what was recently the largest single-screen in Manhattan – by 130 seats – can be seen in Times Square. The marquee of the Loews Astor Plaza still advertises M. Night Shyamalan’s “The Village,” the film that closed the theater’s 30-year run.

Real estate costs have driven many of these big single-screen theaters out of business – although Radio City Music Hall and the Beacon Theater were converted into live venues.

Clearview Cinemas spokesperson Beth Simpson reassures fans of the W. 54th St. icon, which boasts 1,195 seats. “Staying competitive with multiplexes is not really what the Ziegfeld does,” said Simpson. “It’s a completely different experience.”

For the year-to-date, however, the Ziegfeld ranked 159th in ticket sales in New York, according to Nielsen EDI, a box office tracking service. The gargantuan AMC Empire 25 multiplex near Times Square ranked No. 1.

The Ziegfeld’s house allowance – the cost of running the theater in a given week that is subtracted from the gross before a film’s distributor can take its cut of the receipts – is reputed to be one of the highest in the nation.

Still, the Ziegfeld remains the popular choice to rent for gala premieres for movies like “Cold Mountain” and the “Harry Potter” films.

“The places in New York to have a premiere of what they do regularly in Los Angeles, they are pretty few and far between,” said Ian Mohr, a film reporter for Variety. “If you want to get that vibe of the glitzy Los Angeles-style red carpet premiere in New York, it’s very difficult to do unless you do it at the Ziegfeld. ”

Celebrity glitz adds to the theater’s historical legacy – the lobby showcases memorabilia from the original Broadway “Ziegfeld Follies,” performed on the same site – but it’s regular folks who will determine the theater’s future.

“As long as there are passionate movie-goers out there who enjoy the Ziegfeld experience, I think that this theater can thrive,” said Simpson.

RichHamel
RichHamel on January 3, 2005 at 6:48 am

Article today in the Daily News. Appears safe for now.
View link

DonRosen
DonRosen on December 30, 2004 at 5:47 am

If this theatre goes bye-bye, where will those flashy premieres be held?

longislandmovies
longislandmovies on December 30, 2004 at 5:38 am

How many more years could this theater have in the world of high realestate values?

Vito
Vito on December 30, 2004 at 3:55 am

Yes Astyanax, around this time of year many movies scheduled for wide release in early 2005 have an exclusive limited run in order to qualify for Academy Awards. Why not do something like that for perhaps 10 days – two weeks exclusively ay RCMH or Ziegfeld?
Bill, I was glad to see Phantom is being presented in 35mm film
(although 70mm would have been great),and not Digital as is is in some other locations. Wonder if they took they Digital equipment out again. I hope they did.

Astyanax
Astyanax on December 29, 2004 at 5:42 am

What would it take to convince exhibitors that there is a market for presenting movies in exclusive runs either at the Ziegfeld, RCMH or even the smaller Cinema I. Phanthom of the Opera, the Aviator, even Return of the Phoenix & Alexander among the current crop of releases deserved an exclusive run. Having seen Mike Nichol’s Closer on opening day at the Loews' 19th St., felt like I was sitting in a bomb shelter during an air raid. Very different from having seen Carnal Knowledge at it’s initial release at the Beekman. Poor Marcus Loew, a sad tribute to Loews on the company’s 100th year anniversary.

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on December 29, 2004 at 4:40 am

I don’t think anyone has actually operated the console in many years. I’ve seen lots of movies there and the only time I saw the console not closed up was that time in 1972. It might not even be there anymore – they may have taken it out when they replaced all the seats several years ago. I’ll be sure to check for it the next time I’m there. The Phantom of the Opera is playing there now – sounds like a good movie to see at the Ziegfeld.

Vito
Vito on December 29, 2004 at 4:28 am

Bill,I used to like to hang out around the console at RCMH to watch that guy in action. He would never really speak to anyone but he was busy taking care of business. His, in contrast to the Ziegfeld guy’s, job was important to the presentation. By the way.,when you go back to the Ziegfeld and there is someone at the console, ask him what he does for a living and what his purpose is in being there. Then ask him to take a break and let the pros in the booth handle the show.(sarcasum)

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on December 28, 2004 at 11:42 am

Vito, that showing of West Side Story in 1972 was the first time I’d been to the Ziegfeld, and when I saw the console I was sure impressed. It seemed like the theater of the future – until we saw and heard the thing in action, doing more harm than good. I have to look for it the next time I see a movie there.

Vito
Vito on December 28, 2004 at 4:12 am

Oh Bill, I wish I had been there to witness that. In no stretch of the imagination was he “running the show”, but more like ruining it. I imagine all he had was a remote sound control at the console, along with lights and curtain controls. The remote sound control is not uncommon, many producers and directors like to have one at their seat during a studio preview. As a matter of fact I sat with Arthur Hiller during his screening of the W.C. Fields life story. (forget the title)He played with it from time to time, raising and lowering the sound at will.

Mikeoaklandpark
Mikeoaklandpark on December 27, 2004 at 5:05 am

It would have been wonderful if The Phantom Of The Opera was filmed in 70mm. It would have been great on the huge 70mm screen at the Ziegfeld.

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on December 27, 2004 at 4:39 am

Vito, I don’t think I made myself clear when I mentioned the audience applauding. They clapped in the middle of the movie when he finally gave up, turned the console off and walked away. He was actually ruining the show, because all the sound glitches disappeared when he stopped whatever he was doing.

Vito
Vito on December 27, 2004 at 4:15 am

Saps, I should have said the worst blow up, I knew of course it was not shot in 70, although 70 had been used in the early 30s, remember “The Big Trail” with John Wayne shot in “70mm Granduer”?
Even the 35mm magnetic four track prints of “GWTW” were horrible.
Of course many many 35mm films were blown up for the roadshow engaements, “Funny Girl”, “Oliver” to name a few but they looked and sounded half way decent.
Bill, I guess the audience was made to believe that console guy actually ran the whole show. I would have had him arrested for being an impostor trying to dupe people into believing he was a showman.

Mike (saps)
Mike (saps) on December 26, 2004 at 11:07 pm

>>“Gone with the wind” which remains the worst example of 70mm
ever made…

Of course, Gone With the Wind wasn’t made in 70mm, it was just monstrously blown up to that size 30-something years after it was made. I saw GWTW for the first time in that 70mm print at the UA Syosset 150, and I was shocked at the poor quality (everything was fuzzy and grainy) and the obvious cropping of the image at the top and bottom. I couldn’t belive this was the biggest grossing picture of all time! The curved screen was pretty neat, as long as nothing was being projected onto it.

I later saw GWTW at RCMH in its proper aspect ratio, and of course it was magnificent.

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on December 26, 2004 at 6:45 pm

Vito, I wonder if he was the same guy that I saw 3 years later. I’m surprised he was still working there after all that time. I think I remember some people in the audience applauding when he walked away from the console!

Vito
Vito on December 24, 2004 at 3:45 am

Yes Bill and Don, I was a projectionist in 1969 when Marooned opened at the Ziegfeld, at a time when automation was beginning to creep into our lives. There was a guy at that console telling people how he controlled everything including the projection. The idiot even went so far as to suggest they did not even need anyone in the booth, to which, with much sarcasum, I said “really, can you thread the projectors, control focus, and maintaine the booth from here as well”? I also reminded him and the other patrons that without the projectionist up there there would be no show. No comment came
from Mr. “I control everything”.

Bill Huelbig
Bill Huelbig on December 23, 2004 at 11:00 am

Don: I remember that console too. During a revival of WEST SIDE STORY in 1972 a guy was controlling the sound from there, and he kept making it worse. These really loud popping noises started happening – until he turned the console off and walked away, then everything was fine. I think the console is still there, only it’s boarded up.