Great story Tim. I still stay in touch with the former manager of the Carnegie during it’s heyday in the mid `70’s.
I’ve posted before that he called all the promotions the “Genius of Oscar Brotman”.
I’ve in the past informed him of CT’s existence and it’s importance in keeping these long lost gems alive.
I patiently await his finally adding the many insights and stories he has of Oscar Brotman.
As a courtesy, I have not named him until he submits to CT on his own.
I also have some recently found some pics of the Carnegie I will add when I can.
Yes maybe. But the ability to maximize the space in a completely new structure, built from the ground up has to be more doable than renovating an existing space.
Even if they were to keep the mutiple floors currently at the Esquire, how big could each shoebox be to be viable? Versus new shoeboxes that can be built to spec in an open floor plan of their own design?
I would think they’d need many mores screens with potentially different pictures playing on each to make it work.
I remember how big the auditorium was at the Esquire back when it was a one screen. I still don’t envision it as workable as a multi story building they can build from scratch.
As truly great as that scenario would be, I think the Muvico folks would probably consider the Esquire space too restrictive for what they’d want out of a new venture.
In comparison to the space downtown that they passed on. Which is considered by the city the “theater district”.
The Muvico out in the suburbs looks like a palace. Even with multiple screens inside of even a reconfigured Esquire, it likely wouldn’t be enough space to satisfy them, and without parking.
I’d think size wise McClurg Court would be more doable if they were even to entertain the idea of renovating an existing space, versus building a new facility to their own specs.
The Esquire probably seems like an arthouse in size to them.
The demographic on paper for movie goers around Oak St. probably wouldn’t be enough for them even if it included everyone on CT. Because sadly there are no other theaters left in the Rush St. area with/from which to even properly gauge theater foot traffic.
Plus I think they’d probably require massive parking access wherever they choose to go.
If Muvico did magically want the space, I’d fear they rip it down and build their own structure anyway.
I’m for saving the Esquire structure & facade no matter what ends up going in there.
Nice. As we learned here in Chicago, it was never about what the meters could earn. It’s about the tickets/fines that will be generated. Evidenced in the article’s “Master Plan” of the area being renamed a “commercial zone”.
That’s a way to structure the ticket fines to be higher in that “zone” than other zones. In Chicago it’s called “Central Business District”. Even though such areas includes massive residential clusters. Most living there long before the overdevelopment and the new applied “designation”.
They are $50 tickets…for a meter. Miss the payment deadline and it doubles. Amass three unpaid tickets (down from 5), and it’s the boot.
Oh, and they are 2 hour maximum. So seeing a movie and making it back to the car in time would be a stretch.
The fact that Hoboken’s parking manager already factored in they’d be 4 hour meters, implys they always expected to add them specifically around the theater. Guess that was a gift, or maybe a way to appease esidents who would be forced to use them too.
I wonder if the proposed meters were ever a factor in the minds of the theater’s developers beforehand? It’s kind of mentioned by one of the council members.
Theater tickets should be the only ones to worry about.
So how does closing them all at one time improve Redstone’s chances for an overall sale?
You’d think that having them up & running would make them appear more viable to buyers.
At least they could still sell off individually too stop whatever bleeding he thinks the whole chain is suffering. If that. Cutting their losses in such broad strokes just alienates everyone involved. All those people suddenly put out of work, when it can’t really be necessary.
If they are retaining some theaters, why not figure out why the under performing ones
are doing so, and adjust to remedy it.
Also contacting the local governing bodies of those individual towns affected couldn’t hurt.
To help get the ball rolling on possible theater conversions to cultural or performing arts centers.
BTW II: A Mr. Haven’s wrote an excellent comment yesterday that posted to that current story on the home page.
Maybe CT admins can transfer it directly to this Capitola page.
I guess it’s doomed when the Mayor doesn’t consider it historic.
Then they cite the property forcing abatement due to health concerns. It’s just a route to get the owner/ developer to tear it down all the quicker.
Wonder how many of those “threatened” Eucalyptus trees will come down to build the hotel?
If the developer included plans for a small stage within the hotel, it might quell any backlash.
Though no one even commented to the newspaper’s article forum.
The link to the current status & story is on the CT Home page BTW.
Interesting. I guess the church could still rent it out to others for live events, but not sure how that would work with their tax exempt/non for profit status.
Doing so might quell some of the negativity posted in the comments on the Flathead Beacon site. If resistant community members felt it was open to other cultural events.
Taking it off the tax rolls seems the biggest complaint.
I see several mentions of the old Mill Run Theatre in some of the older posts.
Where exactly was the Mill Run located?
I know we went there a few times for various shows. Thanks to all.
Here’s a silly question.
Did the Bel-Air Drive In’s name actually have the hyphen/dash in the middle of it?
The sign appears to have taken some creative license with an extended portion of the “A”. But with the spacing between the “Bel” and the “Air”, it appears to me to really be just the “Bel Air”.
I only ask because all of the posts refer to it as the Bel-Air. Just curious. I guess only the incorporation papers might yield the answer. Just curious.
Your plans do sound great CinemarkFan. Here’s some extra food for though.
One of the problems I’ve heard/read of in the past, was that some studios and/or distributors were dictating where and what theaters their mainstream films would be released to, to play.
Particularly presumed blockbusters like say “Dark Knight”. If you don’t have the deals in place in advance, it’s possible you wouldn’t be able to secure copies and show certain films, even when or if they are NOT at other theaters nearby.
Best to do some research with other theater owners, as to how they are able to request films in advance. Both mainstream and arthouse films.
The Music Box folks might be able to steer you in the right direction. They premiered “The Break Up”, and then went back to their usual fare of art films.
As well intentioned and as welcome your plans are, there will be unforseen roadblocks that defy logic in some instances. I’m not quite sure lack of attendance was any factor in the closing of McClurg. It certainly seemed very viable up to the end.
Shouldn’t there have been annual city inspections that would have caught that stuff much earlier? Why did it take a parent’s complaint, no doubt a connected one, for the city to step in?
Ironic that it survived as an X-Rated house for so long, and then gets shut down when it’s finally booking the types of things we’d want all older theatres to host, in order to survive.
Sounds like some random CYA on that city’s part. Fire system not up to code? You’d think the city would have been on top of that way earlier, like after The Station night club fire. Chicago reinspected all it’s bars immediately after it’s own E2 tragedy.
It couldn’t hurt to bounce your ideas off of the newer 42nd Ward Alderman Brendon Reilly. He’s a younger guy, and much more in tune with the wants & needs of the neighborhood than his long time predecessor.
He was recently instrumental in the landmarking of the Village Theatre on Clark Street.
In 1970 we lived at 863 N. Dearborn. Which is directly across Bughouse Square (Washinton Park), from where the Newberry Theatre stood. You could see the theatre from our front door, but it was non descript and dwarfed by the Jocke Buick lot & signage next door to it.
The park itself is historic as many soapbox debates took place there in the 1920’s. The late Chicago author Studs Terkel would often go to the annual reenactments they still have there.
By 1970 the park was overun with winos & degenerates. There was a structure in the center where a fountain is now, that many would drink & sleep in around the clock. The Salvation Army headquarters was across from the park on Delaware, which is now condos.
Looks good, new windows and all throughout. Shame about the loss of the auditorium though.
To answer Don’s 11/08 question, demolition crews often start their demo in the middle of buildings that are being torn down. Even if surrounding structures are not to be saved.
It is a way in which to contain collateral damage, and it creates a bowl like staging area, in which to bulldoze fallen brick & materials into scoopable piles. It also eliminates “cave-ins”.
When saving partial buildings or surrounding structures is involved, it allows the crews to sort of shave off from the inside, what might otherwise undermine the structural integrity of everything else. By peeling away layers more delicately. It also prevents damage to the neighboring foundations.
FYI. Michael’s (formerly Mitchell’s), the restaurant next door now appears closed down as well. I couldn’t stop to read the sign taped to the window.
But I asked some friends and they thought it was permanent.
Fortunately the recent landmarking of the Village, can prevent any developer argument of even more dead space as a reason to demolish.
If I remember correctly, they had the 3 Penny outfitted to look like a hotel for the filming of “Public Enemies. They hung a retro distressed neon HOTEL sign over the doorways in DarkRefrain’s above picture.
Wow, that pic must be from last week. Depp & crew were just here for the premiere at the AMC theatres down on Illinois Street. WGN’s Dean Richards interviewed Depp the day of. I didn’t realize they did another promotional stint actually at the Biograph.
I didn’t think the renovated Biograph?Victory Gardens space included provisions for showing films.
FYI. Director Harold Ramis premiered his new film “Year One” at the Music Box Theatre last night. He still lives near Chicago. Some of the exterior footage may still be up on WGNTV’s website. WGN’s Dean Richards interviewed Ramis out front in the rain.
Am I the only one who noticed the SNAFU store next door? How fitting for the X rated fare at the Monroe.
Extra credit for the “Dead Head” logo in the store’s window. (cue the rim shot) Doh!
Interesting & versatile concept.
The website still advertises films, matinees etc. Albeit using 2008 dates. Plus the floor plan still looks like a theater type setting. Maybe they just haven’t updated the site for 2009 as of yet.
Great story Tim. I still stay in touch with the former manager of the Carnegie during it’s heyday in the mid `70’s.
I’ve posted before that he called all the promotions the “Genius of Oscar Brotman”.
I’ve in the past informed him of CT’s existence and it’s importance in keeping these long lost gems alive.
I patiently await his finally adding the many insights and stories he has of Oscar Brotman.
As a courtesy, I have not named him until he submits to CT on his own.
I also have some recently found some pics of the Carnegie I will add when I can.
Yes maybe. But the ability to maximize the space in a completely new structure, built from the ground up has to be more doable than renovating an existing space.
Even if they were to keep the mutiple floors currently at the Esquire, how big could each shoebox be to be viable? Versus new shoeboxes that can be built to spec in an open floor plan of their own design?
I would think they’d need many mores screens with potentially different pictures playing on each to make it work.
I remember how big the auditorium was at the Esquire back when it was a one screen. I still don’t envision it as workable as a multi story building they can build from scratch.
As truly great as that scenario would be, I think the Muvico folks would probably consider the Esquire space too restrictive for what they’d want out of a new venture.
In comparison to the space downtown that they passed on. Which is considered by the city the “theater district”.
The Muvico out in the suburbs looks like a palace. Even with multiple screens inside of even a reconfigured Esquire, it likely wouldn’t be enough space to satisfy them, and without parking.
I’d think size wise McClurg Court would be more doable if they were even to entertain the idea of renovating an existing space, versus building a new facility to their own specs.
The Esquire probably seems like an arthouse in size to them.
The demographic on paper for movie goers around Oak St. probably wouldn’t be enough for them even if it included everyone on CT. Because sadly there are no other theaters left in the Rush St. area with/from which to even properly gauge theater foot traffic.
Plus I think they’d probably require massive parking access wherever they choose to go.
If Muvico did magically want the space, I’d fear they rip it down and build their own structure anyway.
I’m for saving the Esquire structure & facade no matter what ends up going in there.
Nice. As we learned here in Chicago, it was never about what the meters could earn. It’s about the tickets/fines that will be generated. Evidenced in the article’s “Master Plan” of the area being renamed a “commercial zone”.
That’s a way to structure the ticket fines to be higher in that “zone” than other zones. In Chicago it’s called “Central Business District”. Even though such areas includes massive residential clusters. Most living there long before the overdevelopment and the new applied “designation”.
They are $50 tickets…for a meter. Miss the payment deadline and it doubles. Amass three unpaid tickets (down from 5), and it’s the boot.
Oh, and they are 2 hour maximum. So seeing a movie and making it back to the car in time would be a stretch.
The fact that Hoboken’s parking manager already factored in they’d be 4 hour meters, implys they always expected to add them specifically around the theater. Guess that was a gift, or maybe a way to appease esidents who would be forced to use them too.
I wonder if the proposed meters were ever a factor in the minds of the theater’s developers beforehand? It’s kind of mentioned by one of the council members.
Theater tickets should be the only ones to worry about.
So how does closing them all at one time improve Redstone’s chances for an overall sale?
You’d think that having them up & running would make them appear more viable to buyers.
At least they could still sell off individually too stop whatever bleeding he thinks the whole chain is suffering. If that. Cutting their losses in such broad strokes just alienates everyone involved. All those people suddenly put out of work, when it can’t really be necessary.
If they are retaining some theaters, why not figure out why the under performing ones
are doing so, and adjust to remedy it.
Also contacting the local governing bodies of those individual towns affected couldn’t hurt.
To help get the ball rolling on possible theater conversions to cultural or performing arts centers.
What an awesome looking building. Too bad it can’t be saved.
BTW II: A Mr. Haven’s wrote an excellent comment yesterday that posted to that current story on the home page.
Maybe CT admins can transfer it directly to this Capitola page.
I guess it’s doomed when the Mayor doesn’t consider it historic.
Then they cite the property forcing abatement due to health concerns. It’s just a route to get the owner/ developer to tear it down all the quicker.
Wonder how many of those “threatened” Eucalyptus trees will come down to build the hotel?
If the developer included plans for a small stage within the hotel, it might quell any backlash.
Though no one even commented to the newspaper’s article forum.
The link to the current status & story is on the CT Home page BTW.
Interesting. I guess the church could still rent it out to others for live events, but not sure how that would work with their tax exempt/non for profit status.
Doing so might quell some of the negativity posted in the comments on the Flathead Beacon site. If resistant community members felt it was open to other cultural events.
Taking it off the tax rolls seems the biggest complaint.
I see several mentions of the old Mill Run Theatre in some of the older posts.
Where exactly was the Mill Run located?
I know we went there a few times for various shows. Thanks to all.
Here’s a silly question.
Did the Bel-Air Drive In’s name actually have the hyphen/dash in the middle of it?
The sign appears to have taken some creative license with an extended portion of the “A”. But with the spacing between the “Bel” and the “Air”, it appears to me to really be just the “Bel Air”.
I only ask because all of the posts refer to it as the Bel-Air. Just curious. I guess only the incorporation papers might yield the answer. Just curious.
Your plans do sound great CinemarkFan. Here’s some extra food for though.
One of the problems I’ve heard/read of in the past, was that some studios and/or distributors were dictating where and what theaters their mainstream films would be released to, to play.
Particularly presumed blockbusters like say “Dark Knight”. If you don’t have the deals in place in advance, it’s possible you wouldn’t be able to secure copies and show certain films, even when or if they are NOT at other theaters nearby.
Best to do some research with other theater owners, as to how they are able to request films in advance. Both mainstream and arthouse films.
The Music Box folks might be able to steer you in the right direction. They premiered “The Break Up”, and then went back to their usual fare of art films.
As well intentioned and as welcome your plans are, there will be unforseen roadblocks that defy logic in some instances. I’m not quite sure lack of attendance was any factor in the closing of McClurg. It certainly seemed very viable up to the end.
Shouldn’t there have been annual city inspections that would have caught that stuff much earlier? Why did it take a parent’s complaint, no doubt a connected one, for the city to step in?
Ironic that it survived as an X-Rated house for so long, and then gets shut down when it’s finally booking the types of things we’d want all older theatres to host, in order to survive.
Sounds like some random CYA on that city’s part. Fire system not up to code? You’d think the city would have been on top of that way earlier, like after The Station night club fire. Chicago reinspected all it’s bars immediately after it’s own E2 tragedy.
I wish you well in your pursuit CinemarkFan.
It couldn’t hurt to bounce your ideas off of the newer 42nd Ward Alderman Brendon Reilly. He’s a younger guy, and much more in tune with the wants & needs of the neighborhood than his long time predecessor.
He was recently instrumental in the landmarking of the Village Theatre on Clark Street.
In 1970 we lived at 863 N. Dearborn. Which is directly across Bughouse Square (Washinton Park), from where the Newberry Theatre stood. You could see the theatre from our front door, but it was non descript and dwarfed by the Jocke Buick lot & signage next door to it.
The park itself is historic as many soapbox debates took place there in the 1920’s. The late Chicago author Studs Terkel would often go to the annual reenactments they still have there.
By 1970 the park was overun with winos & degenerates. There was a structure in the center where a fountain is now, that many would drink & sleep in around the clock. The Salvation Army headquarters was across from the park on Delaware, which is now condos.
863 N. Dearborn is now home to Hazelden Rehab.
Looks good, new windows and all throughout. Shame about the loss of the auditorium though.
To answer Don’s 11/08 question, demolition crews often start their demo in the middle of buildings that are being torn down. Even if surrounding structures are not to be saved.
It is a way in which to contain collateral damage, and it creates a bowl like staging area, in which to bulldoze fallen brick & materials into scoopable piles. It also eliminates “cave-ins”.
When saving partial buildings or surrounding structures is involved, it allows the crews to sort of shave off from the inside, what might otherwise undermine the structural integrity of everything else. By peeling away layers more delicately. It also prevents damage to the neighboring foundations.
Shaping up nicely. Good to see they tore off that ugly wood facade.
Must be big money into it by now.
FYI. Michael’s (formerly Mitchell’s), the restaurant next door now appears closed down as well. I couldn’t stop to read the sign taped to the window.
But I asked some friends and they thought it was permanent.
Fortunately the recent landmarking of the Village, can prevent any developer argument of even more dead space as a reason to demolish.
If I remember correctly, they had the 3 Penny outfitted to look like a hotel for the filming of “Public Enemies. They hung a retro distressed neon HOTEL sign over the doorways in DarkRefrain’s above picture.
Wow, that pic must be from last week. Depp & crew were just here for the premiere at the AMC theatres down on Illinois Street. WGN’s Dean Richards interviewed Depp the day of. I didn’t realize they did another promotional stint actually at the Biograph.
I didn’t think the renovated Biograph?Victory Gardens space included provisions for showing films.
FYI. Director Harold Ramis premiered his new film “Year One” at the Music Box Theatre last night. He still lives near Chicago. Some of the exterior footage may still be up on WGNTV’s website. WGN’s Dean Richards interviewed Ramis out front in the rain.
Well, the surviving Cowsill members are performing 10 days in Branson MO. soon. Might just have to buzz down there & find out.
Am I the only one who noticed the SNAFU store next door? How fitting for the X rated fare at the Monroe.
Extra credit for the “Dead Head” logo in the store’s window. (cue the rim shot) Doh!
Interesting & versatile concept.
The website still advertises films, matinees etc. Albeit using 2008 dates. Plus the floor plan still looks like a theater type setting. Maybe they just haven’t updated the site for 2009 as of yet.
FYI,
55 Plymouth in the56 picture. I had an identical56 model, but the55 had lower tail fins as pictured.