Loew's Kings Theatre

The LOEW'S KINGS in Brooklyn may see a new life as the Magic Johnson theatre chain plans a $30-million project to turn it into a 12-screen house. Theatre has been closed since 1977 and only used once in a great while as a location for film shoots. It remains untouched. Article appeared in The New York Times on 3/24/99.

The Kings was one of the five Loews Wonder Theaters (175th Street, Valencia, Pitkin, and 72nd Street were the other four). It had a small shelf balcony and a grand lobby with a curving staircase. At one time there was even a basketball court in the basement for the staff. A scene from "Sophie's Choice" was filmed in the theater but unfortunately wound up on the cutting room floor.

The 5 Loews Wonder Theaters were: 175th Street, Paradise, Jersey, Valencia and Kings. While great theaters, The Pitkin and the 72nd Street were not part of the "Wonder Theater" group.

Scaffolding currently covers the theater's facade, so i wonder if something is going on here.

The Kings Theatre opened on September 7, 1929 on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. Designed by Rapp and Rapp, the lavish auditorium seated 3,600 and featured a mammoth dome high above the audience. Extensive use of walnut paneling and carved walnut columns along with deep, rich colors and heavily gilded ornamentation created an opulent scene for theatre patrons.

I went to the Kings theatre in the 70's, while visiting an aunt in the area. I the manager was a very kind woman who showed me all over the building when she saw my interest in it. I remember the huge entrance lobby, and the inner lobby with its bronze statues and walnut panelling. The upstairs ladies lounge, and the newel posts on the staircases to the balcony were art deco in style, everything else was a gorgeous french baroque. I hope someone renovates this theatre and reopens it without destroying its integrity. It would be a real loss to Brooklyn if this one gets away.

From what I have heard, the multiplex plan has fallen through, and the Kings is still in the hands of the city.
The Kings is, in my opinion, the most beautiful theater in Brooklyn, and one of the most beautiful movie palaces anywhere.
Having grown up in Flatbush, it was also such a thrill to see the marquee all lit up at night, and the huge verticle neon LOEW'S sign, spelling out the name.
The one thing I remember in the massive auditorium, were giant baroque murals, and sinister satyr figures surrounding the exits down on either side of the stage.
I have many memories of going to see many movies there, including
"What's Up Doc"?, "2001: Space Odyssey", "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", and the lastly, "Marathon Man" in the winter of 1977, the same year it closed.
The Kings is a true treasure, and its depressing to see it dark and abandoned for so many years, but at least it still stands, and the interior remains.

I had heard that the interior is beyond being saved due to neglect and exposure to the elements(rain leaking in, etc.) Does anybody know if this is true or not?

A new roof was put on the Kings about ten or so years ago, to prevent extreme damage to the interior, and it has proven to be effective more the most part.
However, there is serious leak in the auditorium, down near stage left, which has caused considerable damage to that section.
The Kings is still able to be restored, and from what I understand, it is not a lost case.

In 1974, The Kings theatre reopened for a special show. The main feature was BLAZING SADDLES. Towards the end of the film,
the projector caught on fire... The Morton "Wonder Organ" was workable through the 1960's. It was removed from the theatre shortly before or after the theatre closed... Graduation ceremonies for New Utrecht High School was held at this theatre in 1960.

In 1995 a scene from Sleepers was filmed there, that was where Rizzo's brother was headquartered.They filmed the exterior and interior during this portion of filming.

The Loews Kings on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn was THE showplace of
Flatbush. It was like Broadway in Brooklyn. I saw many wonderful films ,mainly from the MGM library there, "Quo Vadis", "Ben Hur"
and "King of Kings" 1961 just to name a few. I miss it so much.

In the summer of 2002, a group of us from Theatre Historical Society of America was granted a visit of the interior of the Kings. It was in shocking and fragile condition, but still safe enough for us to walk around the orchestra floor and mezzanine without wearing safety gear. Despite water damage from a leaky roof (by then repaired), the theatre certainly seemed salvageable, though it would probably cost $35-50 million to restore it to anything like its original appearance. That seems highly unlikely unless someone can figure out a way to program the theatre. That area of Flatbush, Brooklyn, has been in decline for several decades now, and few people will go there at night unless they live there.

Dear Warren, having lived in Flatbush for over 40 years, I would like to correct you that in fact it has become a thriving bustling neighborhood with many new stores and business, catering to the large West Indian community which predominates. The demise of that neighborhood was a fast and disturbing one which occured right after the 1977 blackout, which wiped out many theaters, and many business'.
About ten or so years ago, the neighborhood began a gradual turn around, and many new business' began to open , including many National chain stores. Now, it is once again very busy.
The Kings would be IDEAL an entertainment center catering to the community, and, for that matter, everyone else, especially with the huge parking lot of Sears just behind it.
But, like you mentioned, it's a matter of money and investors. I guess we can only be hopefull!
Best Regards
Best Regards

Rubi, I hope that you're right. But it will require someone with great vision and showmanship to make it work.

I believe that it can. It would be a mega-project to say the least, but I just hate that such a beautiful and grand theater with potential, just sits dormant for so long.
I dont know if youre familiar with San Francisco, but alot of the theaters there have been restored, I wish they would do the same here. Do you know the Bay ara of SF ?
ciao.

San Francisco is a small town in comparison to New York City and its five boroughs. SF's largest and most magnificent movie palace, the Fox (designed by Thomas Lamb) was demolished decades ago. The smaller Loew's Warfield was eventually converted to rock concerts and I think still presents them. One or two other large theatres have been converted to "legit" plays. But SF never had that many theatres to start with, so they are more likely to be "saved" than in the NYC area, which probably had twenty times as many...Hasn't there been talk of restoring the Brooklyn Paramount when LIU moves to new premises? That would probably make more sense than reviving the Kings because the Paramount is in downtown Brooklyn and easier to reach by public transportation from all over the borough as well as from Manhattan and Queens.

I was on a theatre conclave in NYC in 2002. I felt that Loews Kings even in its current condition was the most magnificient treasure on our tour. It took my breath away to see such a beautiful theatre. All the great Times Square movie palaces are now gone and I hope both the Paramount and the Kings can be saved. My hope is the City of New York would spend enough money to keep the theatre stablized until there are the funds to restore Loews Kings one of the Loews Wonder Theatres. Manhattan due to broadway has restored many of it legit houses but I have yet to see the city Restore one of there movie palaces the way other cities have. Radio City Music Hall was restored by a private company and is a unique venue.brucec

Warren this is major news for historic preservationists. I imagine though that Brooklyn Collge will want to sell the land and make a nice chunk of money for itself. A condo high-rise will do very nicely there. I guess Brooklyn historical societies should take note or this will diappear before you can blink. But how much is left of the theater?

As I understand it, much of the auditorium of the Brooklyn Paramount still exists, though some of it is beneath the floor of the top portion that was sectioned off for a basketball court. Most of the lobby areas, including staircases and the mezzanine promenade, are also still there and occupied by a cafeteria and offices.

And as I understand it, the gymnasium for LIU is the auditorium for the former Brooklyn Paramount, and that is, I imagine, unlikely to change.
As far as the Kings...
its for me very interesting that it has stayed intact as a building for so long, as opposed to other movie palaces which have either been demolished or turned into stores, etc.
I am forever hoping, that the grand Kings will be restored.

Could be good news for the Kings: The New York Times recently did an article on the Ditmas/Flatbush area in their "If You're Thinking of Living In" series. Many people priced out of Park Slope are moving south of the park, into the lovely single Victorian homes in the area. I have driven around there and it is definitely more gentrified, diverse and safe than it was about 5 years ago when I lived nearby. Would be fantastic if the theater followed in the footsteps of the Loews Jersey, and became a focal point for the community.

It would be a gift to Brooklyn to re-open this wonderful movie palace. A group should be formed such as the friends of the Loews in Jersey City, who are doing miracles in their restoration, to take over the Kings and revive it. The rebirth of this palace would be a true cultural gift for current and future generations. Who currently owns this theater?

I believe that it's currently owned by The City of New York, which has been trying to find a buyer for some years now. Sure, it would be wonderful to re-open the Kings as a gift to Brooklyn, but who's going to put up the $50 million or upwards that would be required to do so?

$50 million is a small estimate for the extensive work needed to fix this wonderful 2-1/2 acres of seats in a six story high auditorium. The 4-story-high draperies that once made the looming walls look less foreboding would require the building of an assembly barn for this scale of work, since the old drapery houses that could do such work are long gone, and those few existing today do not have the perspective, experience, or talent to reproduce such monumental work, and if they could, it would cost at least $5,000,000 for just the draperies alone! (Craftspeople today will not work for the 25 cents per hour that they did in the Twenties!) And even if you could find someone willing to risk about $75 to 100 million on this space, where would the parking for the thousands attending come from?? (Americans are not in the habit of walking, even from a bus stop on the corner!) Perhaps there is available land adjacent that could be purchased, and perhaps the city would allow a parking structure to be built there, but that would add considerably to the cost. Reportedly, the electric company will not even turn on the power until someone pays the big back bills of the former operator, and the problems mount up from there. Yes, the KINGS was a most glorious movie palace, but unless TV and videos somehow disappear tomorrow, there is not likely to be found anywhere an audience large enough and CONSISTANT enough to support the theatre, which would be taxed again just as soon as a private party got ownership from the city. We must face the fact that the only reason it still stands today is that the city doesn't want to spend upwards of $10 million to have it demolished, though they may have to do that if it becomes a refuge for undesirables in deteriorating conditions, as it inevitably will with time.

Will the equally wonderful BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT become available in a condition that enables it to be restored? I fervently hope so, but many of the same problems confront that situation as confront the KINGS. Where will the THOUSANDS of people come from to support the place? It is tax free now, but it is highly unlikely that it will remain so under new conditions! And taxes are just one of the expenses such huge facilities face, since just to pay for the utilities for a year would bankrupt the average business. (For example, few movie palaces had any insulation in the walls and ceilings to contain heat, so heating costs would be astronomical). The only real hope is for a 'sugar daddy' such as Donald Trump who presumably wouldn't care if he lost millions each year, since he would be so in love with the place that he would keep it just for nostalgia and as a public monument to a day and age when people cared about such things and would support them with their hard-earned money. Now the people spend for rock spectacles and sporting events, not theatres, and even the much smaller, and therefore much more efficient theatres are in a financial bind as our culture degenerates, and people no longer support the arts in sufficient numbers to maintain them in any large scale.

For those of you in love with the KINGS, there was a documentary released in 1979 called "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" as a photographic tour of the KINGS, and it may be possible to find it in some library. Through such, it may be possible to relive some of those days of lost glory, but don't hold your breath about reviving any such behemoths in our crass, and expensive, day and age. Unlike most cities, New York already has an abundance of theatres, and it is highly unlikely that the tax payers there will vote to pay to maintain another one.

P.S. The KINGS is one of my favorite theatres, simply from having seen it in photos and the documentary, so I am not being negative, simply realistic, sad to say. Oh to have a 'time machine' to be able to travel back to those days of architectural majesty!

By location alone, a restored Brooklyn Paramount stands a better chance of survival then a restored Kings. Downtown is on an upswing, with talks of moving a pro basketball team there. Flatbush would be a harder sell. Dont get me wrong, I was in the Kings a few times as a kid, my aunt lived there before she married my uncle. As a kid I remember gasping as I walked in the door. It is a sad statement about NY but we tear down everything. You mentioned we have a lot of theatres but we have more Zeigfelds then we do Roxys.

Perhaps they could put the Kings on rollers and move it to some other part of the USA that has no spectacular theatres and would appreciate it more, such as Nome, Alaska.

On Wednesdays, in my high school days at Erasmus Hall, on lunch breaks of 40 minutes I would walk down Flatbush Ave. South and check out the openings at Brandt's Astor, Fox-Eastern's Albemarle, Loew's Kings and Century' Rialto at Cortelyou Road. I'd crossed the street
and return checking all the fronts of the marquees ending up at the RKO Kenmore. All except the Kings and Rialto, still had 8"x10" stills and one sheet display cases. Lunches varied from Chock Full O'Nuts, Woolworth's, the Jewish Deli accross the street from the Kings, and Jahn's. (However, never at Garfield's. The Granada where I worked from 1970-75 I saw on the way to school and home. I went to all the theatres from 1967-1975. I never thought they would all be gone. Loew's Kings and Century's Rialto in 1977, the Astor in 1978, the Granada in 1983, the Albemarle in 1986 and the Kenmore in 1999.
At least the Jehovah's Witness' have taken very good care of the Albemarle. The Rialto must look the same way as far as the inside goes and the Kings just sits there. Three out of six is not bad. The Granada is a Rite-Aid, the Astor is a dollar store and the poor Kenmore was totally gutted including the restored lobby so that it can't be used as a theatre, Onex (LoewsCineplex) saw to that.

The introductory to this theatre is seriously need in a revamp. Why is there "no description available?" The Kings is one of the most famous movie palaces ever built. I'm sure that many of us could provide one. Why is the chain "unknown" when it first opened as Loew's Kings and remained for most of its existence? And why is the function described as "Performing Arts?" When the Kings first opened in 1929, it presented movies and vaudeville, but soon switched to movies only for the rest of its life. Perhaps there was once a plan to turn it into a performing arts center, but that never happened.

It was Loews to the day it closed.

Loews Kings opened on Friday September 6, 1928. It was built on the site of a seasonal outdoor movie park and the Flatbush BRT trolley depot and storage yard dating back to the 1890's.

The site became available when a new carbarn and yards were opened, located at Avenue N and Utica Avenue in Flatlands. The Marcus Loew organization was seeking to expand his theater circuit and the Kings was to be one of the new "Wonder" theaters in the NYC metropolitan area.

After the Kings was built,the Cortelyou Road trolley, which began its run at the old depot,had to make a switchback on Flatbush Avenue to run south,
turning west onto Cortelyou











Road at the Century Rialto Theter and proceeding to Gravesend Avenue and then north to Church Avenue near the Beverly Theater.

The Kings feature vaudville with live orchestra, a large organ (Morton if I recall correctly) and silent movies. It was the number one Flatbush theater and was jammed with long lines of patrons waiting for seats in the vast lobby with brass railings and velvet ropes channeling the waiting throngs into multiple lanes.

In 1930 the Cortelyou trolleys were replaced by new electric trolley buses and added further glamour to the area which was well served by public transit. Despite this the patronage started dropping off as the Great Depression began.

In the eary '30's the theater had been showing talkies for a few years and vaudville was dropped in favor of a straight movie policy.In 1935 double features became standard. Throughout the 30's, Erasmus Hall High School, located up Flatbush Avenue next to the Astor Theater, held its graduations in the theater on Saturday mornings. The organ was prominently featured in the ceremonies with one of the music teachers ( can no longer recall his name) performing in a quite grand manner.

The orchestra was quite large, being very long and dived half way down to the stage by a transverse asile. The balcony was very small and on the whole the layout of the auditorium was similar the Brooklyn Paramount.

Attendance picked up in the late 30's and boomed during WW2. Around 1947 the marquee and vertical were updated spoiling the exterior harmony with a garish if spectacular look. The vertical was huge and had a brillant neon effect changing from gold to silver and impossible to miss from far up the avenue.

Patronage began declining slightly in 1951 but was still good in 1953 after which a downward slide began. I was in the orchestra on a Wednesday afternoon in 1957 seated by the center aisle at the east side in the first row to the rear of transverse asile waiting for the show to start; I looked around and saw only two other people in the huge house. I sensed that things had really changed and wondered how long would the theater last. Shortly, four men came down the asile wearing suits, one the manager. I could hear them speaking as they approached me. They stopped at the asiles intersection. One man said to the manager that the theater was clean but the beauty was somewhat faded. The manager said it hadn't had a coat of paint in 29 years. Another said that it was too bad but don't expect it. Apparantly this group was a corporate survry team checking out the house.

At this time there was still a newsreel but that soon stopped.

Loews Kings opened on Friday September 6, 1928. It was built on the site of a seasonal outdoor movie park and the Flatbush BRT trolley depot and storage yard dating back to the 1890's.

The site became available when a new carbarn and yards were opened located at Avenue N and Utica Avenue in Flatlands. The Marcus Loew organization was seeking to expand its theater circuit and the Kings was to be one of the new "Wonder" theaters in the NYC metropolitan area.

After the Kings was built,the Cortelyou Road trolley which began its run at the old depot, had to make a switchback on Flatbush Avenue to run south, turning west onto Cortelyou Road at the Century Rialto Theter and proceeding to Gravesend Avenue and then north to Church Avenue near the Beverly Theater.

The Kings feature vaudville with live orchestra, a large organ (Morton if I recall correctly) and silent movies. It was the number one Flatbush theater and was jammed with long lines of patrons waiting for seats in the vast lobby with brass railings and velvet ropes channeling the waiting throngs into multiple lanes.

In 1930 the Cortelyou trolleys were replaced by new electric trolley buses and added further glamour to the area which was well served by public transit. Despite this the patronage started dropping off as the Great Depression began.

In the eary '30's the theater had been showing talkies for a few years and vaudville was dropped in favor of a straight movie policy.In 1935 double features became standard.

Throughout the 30's, Erasmus Hall High School, located up Flatbush Avenue next to the Astor Theater, held its graduations in the theater on Saturday mornings. The organ was prominently featured in the ceremonies with one of the music teachers ( can no longer recall his name) performing in a quite grand manner.

The orchestra was quite large, being very long and dived half way down to the stage by a transverse asile. The balcony was very small and on the whole the layout of the auditorium was similar the Brooklyn Paramount.

Attendance picked up in the late 30's and boomed during WW2. Around 1947 the marquee and vertical were updated spoiling the exterior harmony with a garish if spectacular look. The vertical was huge and had a brillant neon effect changing from gold to silver and impossible to miss from far up the avenue.

Patronage began declining slightly in 1951 but was still good in 1953 after which a downward slide began. I was in the orchestra on a Wednesday afternoon in 1957 seated by the center aisle at the east side in the first row to the rear of transverse asile waiting for the show to start; I looked around and saw only two other people in the huge house. I sensed that things had really changed and wondered how long would the theater last. Shortly, four men came down the asile wearing suits, one the manager. I could hear them speaking as they approached me. They stopped at the asiles intersection. One man said to the manager that the theater was clean but the beauty was somewhat faded. The manager said it hadn't had a coat of paint in 29 years. Another said that it was too bad but don't expect it. Apparantly this group was a corporate survry team checking out the house.

At this time there was still a newsreel but that soon stopped.

Loew's Kings first opened in 1929, not 1928.

The decline of the Kings began in the late 1940s, when it was reduced to playing day-and-date with most of the other Loew's houses in Brooklyn, as well as with theatres of rival circuits. Prior to that, the Kings and Loew's Pitkin had shown their programs a week ahead of the rest of the pack except for Loew's Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn. In fact, when they first opened in 1929, the Kings and Pitkin played day-and-date with the Met, but that soon proved unworkable because of the unique product "split" in downtown Brooklyn between the Met, Paramount, Fox, Albee, and Strand.

Warren,
What does the term "day-and-date" mean ?

Loew's Kings opened on September 7, 1929, not September 6, 1928.

"Day-and-date" was an exhibitors' term for theatres showing the same programs at the same time and for the same number of days or weeks.

Listing should be changed to Loew's Kings

The apostrophe should come after Loew and before the "s", as Loew's. The theatre closed before the company changed its name to the illiterate "Loews."

There was a documentary made about this theater about 20 years ago. Does anybody know the name of this film or better yet how I can obtain a copy? I know that the organ still rose up on it's seperate lift for the film, however I do not remember if it was playable.

The documentary you are referring to was called: MEMOIRS OF A MOVIE PALACE by Christian Blackwood Productions then of New York City in 1980. The VHS tape was in limited production and a copy 'should' be at the Library of Congress as part of its copyright. I know that the Theatre Historical Soc. of America (http://www.HistoricTheatres.org )has a copy, but whether or not they would be willing to copy it for you, I do not know. In July, after they return from their Conclave in Kansas City, inquire of their Ex. Dir. at the address on their front page. A Google search turned up places selling the original 3x4-foot poster advertising the video, but not the video itself. Blackwood Productions does not appear in a Google search, nor do recent titles by Christian Blackwood, whom I met as a young men here in Milwaukee back in April of 1980 when he was attending the "Symposium on the American Movie Palace" then held at the Univ. of Wis. at Milwaukee. If you find a source of the video, please let us know here! No doubt there are many people who would like to get a copy, including me, Jim Rankin at jimor@lycos.com

I don't know how to use the "add a link" feature, but if you type http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php you will wind up on a page (in french) that has some photos of the Kings interior as it looked in 2001. Don't click on the english version of the page. I did it and, for some reason, could no longer find the photos.

Okay, I just found out that it adds the link automatically when you type it in, so just go ahead and click on it. Enjoy!

Check with your local libraries regarding the "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" documentary, one of the branches here in New York City has it for loan and I was able to borrow it and watch it. It's really is quite an experience to see this video. I do hope the NYC Economic Development Corp. is finally able to do something with this former Loew's Movie Palace, unfortunately it will cost millions of dollars to restore it to its original splendor.

A photo of the exterior of the Loew's Kings circa 1960-61 can be seen on this page.

I believe that Christian Blackwood is now deceased. One of his last works was a feature documentary about Zarah Leander, the Swedish actress-singer who became the #1 movie star in Germany during the Nazi era.

Interesting article about revival plans for Kings. http://www.brooklynskyline.com/news_article_print.asp?na=390

The article was published over a year ago, and as far as I know, nothing positive has happened since about saving the Kings.

Does anyone know what happened to the oringinal theatre organ that was once in the Loew's Kings? I know the Jersey's went to California and they are replacing it with the one fron the Paradise. Also do the 175th St. and Valencia still have there Wonder Organs?

Theatrefan....The following excerpt from the American Theater Organ Society Web Journal dated April 9, 2003 will explain the location of the 5 Wonder Mortons...."

Only one of the five Wonder Mortons, originally installed in the greater New York area remains in its original location at Loew's United Palace Theatre, 175th Street and Broadway in Manhattan. The one from Loew's Jersey Theatre in Jersey City is now in the Santa Barbara Arlington Theatre. The Morton from Loew's Paradise Theatre in the Bronx is being installed in Loew's Jersey Theatre (where the original home of the Arlington organ). The Morton in Loew's Kings Theatre in Brooklyn was broken up for parts but its restored console is now part of Paul Vandermolen's residence organ near Chicago. Lastly, the organ from Loew's Valencia in Jamaica, Queens is going to be installed in the Balboa Theatre in San Diego".

Thanks ErwinM.

I guess part of the reason the 175th Street still had the original one is because Rev Ike bought the theatre from Loew's in the late 60's. They started ripping out all the organs in the early 70's. I could have sworn I saw an organ in the Valencia too, maybe I am confusing it with another theatre turned church.

I saw the documentary on the Kings and at the very start there is a gentleman playing a theatre organ, I wonder if that was the oringinal Kings organ. It sounded great!

75 years ago, the Wonder Theaters were built and became prime showcases for all the great MGM product over the next 3 decades. The only Wonder Theater showing film today is Loew's Jersey but, sadly, they are not playing any MGM product in their 75th anniversary programming.

However, the beautifully restored Lafayette Theater in Suffern, New York salutes the Loew's Wonder Theaters by presenting a newly restored 35mm print of one of MGM's greatest musicals, "Meet Me in St. Louis." It will be shown this Saturday, September 25 as part of their weekly Big Screen Classics series. They will also present a vintage MGM short, and will play live music on their magnificent Wurlitzer organ.

For more information, visit their website at www.bigscreenclassics.com

The King's is never mentioned anymore and every day it seems less likey it will be saved, but you never know. Does anyone know the last time it was inspected and how bad the damage is?

I visited the interior in the summer of 2002 and found the damage to be HORRENDOUS. Two years have passed and I'm not aware of any work being done to save the theatre, so the damage could be even worse by now. Estimates have been given that it would probably cost at least $35 million to just get the Kings operating again, and $85-$100 million for a full restoration.

Warren
Was it all water damage or are vandals getting in? What a waste we let these treasures sit empty and then spend millions to make them look like they did before. I remember when that documentry was done the place was still intact.

Here is a 2001 view of the exterior of the King's.

I suspect that, ultimately, if the threat of the demolition of the Loew's Kings should arise (it isn't landmarked, is it?), then we'll probably see a group akin to those who've, as best they can, renovate and restore the Loew's Jersey, take charge of getting the Kings up and running again. Until that day, it'll probably continue lying in disrepair and breaking several hearts in the process.

I should have written 'renovated' and 'restored'; apologies for my typos...

Wow the vertical is still there and could so easily be repaired if the $$ ever became available.

The vertical is no longer on the building, it was removed last year and some loose terra cotta has been re-inforced. The Kings has been closed for 27 years and it's current condition is not as "HORRENDOUS" as warren states. True there is water damage in the auditorium in about 40% of this space. The stage skylight has let the outside elements destroy the stage area, but it doesn't have a eight foot hole in it like the Westbury of Long Island which was open all along with a broken skylight. The lobby areas are missing fixtures and is not as weathered as the auditorium. Let's remember that the building was closed and walked away from. If the city had boarded and secured the location, this would have never happened. Yes it would have some damage but not as much would have occured. The treasures of the Loew's Kings were not stolen by homeless people but like many believe, but by the caretakers including the Flatbush Developement people who had the keys to the building.

This theater, as well as several other Loew's theaters, can be seen in very nice color footage on the new DVD release of Jerry Lewis' "The Bellboy". Lewis is seen touring Loew's theaters in the area and making personal appearances trumpeting the release and he had someone document the event. No auditoriums are shown but there are very nice marquee shots. As a side note, the second feature at each location was "Tarzan the Magnificent."

Jiffy, I transferred that footage to video when I worked for Jerry Lewis. It was taken from the 35mm color camera negative, and the quality was outstanding. The original reel was about ten minutes. How much did they use on the DVD?

Lewis toured the Loew's New York circuit for THE BELLBOY, appearing at just about every large Loew's theater in the New York area. There was great color footage of the Paradise, Pitkin, King's, Oriental, and many others.

He did a similar tour of the New York area RKO theaters in 1961 for THE LADIES' MAN. However, that film footage was 16mm black and white.

Bob, you did a great job because the footage does not look it's age. Has it really been 44 years? I will guess approx 4 minutes were used but hard to tell because I kept freeze framing it. I could tell it was edited as it faded to black at the end. The theaters that can be seen are the Kings, Premier and 46th St. I wonder if the "Ladies' Man" footage is on that disc of that film?

Interestingly, "The Bellboy" itself was black and white. Then he tours for a color film and the tour is in black and white.

Bob,
The footage on the DVD clocks in at 1 minute 33 seconds. I told you about that freeze frame!

Does anyone know of any bitmapable (Is that a word?) images of the Loews Kings in its heyday?

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~angell/thsa/archive.html is the URL for the THSA archieve. It holds the Loews, Inc. collection of photographs. They can supply you at a price prints of any Loews house from various periods pre dating the 1960's.

I for one would have no problem visiting Flatbush. I lived through the 80's in this city and it never kept me from going to the theater on Times Square. Those were the days when shootings and muggings were frequent. One had to walk around clusters of prostitutes, pimps and other unsavory individuals back then. Yet people kept visiting and Times Square is alive and well today.

While watching last night's Yankees-Red Sox ALCS Game Six, I saw the new spot for the Nissan Altima, which features a brief exterior glimpse of the shuttered Olympic Theatre in downtown LA, and had a thought: isn't it ironic how, in current advertisements, films, and television programs, it's the old single-screen houses and movie palaces - the most-endangered of movie theatres - which are used far more often as a shooting location than the modern-day multi- and mega-plexes?

It is ironic indeed, considering how they were dismissed years ago as old, musty, and outmoded, yet today the movie palaces that remain are often the most imaginative and artistic structures remaining in our cities. The irony is that we seek to preserve on film what we so seldom seek to preserve in life as living art works as well as memorials to our past. Of course, it is, as always, a matter of money and keeping something alive today that was intended to have thousands pay to enter it each day, is a Herculean task with few having the deep pockets needed to do the job. In the new book "Cinema Treasures" the authors make the observation that using such palaces as the LOS ANGELES has become a cottage industry for many such, and is often all that stands between them and the wrecking ball. A few multiplexes, such as the COLUSUS in Toronto are so large and elaborate as to almost be movie settings themselves, but such multiplexes are in the minority, and we are more and more left to notice the painful contrast between the opulent palaces of yesteryear and the spare and uninspired screening rooms of today.

In many ways, the art of movie exhibition has come full circle. Architecturally, we're back to the tiny shoebox style nickelodeons.

I also saw that commercial. Recently many music videos are also using the interior of these old gems too.
ANd of course the exteriors are used in countless films and shows as a backdrop. There is much more substance in an old theater either in shambles or in good condtion depending on what look or feel to the scene they are looking for, than a multiplex.

As for the Kings, what is the current condition? Any update or photos available of it currently?

And to comment on someone's comment above from March, why is there no description for this theater? How do we edit that part. This theater deserves a description in it's opening paragraph.

A previous comment mentioned the present day photos of the KINGS as taken and posted by this French member of the Theatre Historical Soc.'s tour last year: http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php and part of the site is also in English, though the photos speak the international language.

AS to why there is no description. That is probably because CT staffer William Gabel, who originally entered the theatre into their data base, did not submit a description/history at that time. Perhaps it was not a house that he was personally familiar with; perhaps he had no adequate resources available from which to bring together a description of merit; or perhaps he did not have sufficiently recent information to round out an article that would reflect the venue today as opposed to only yesterday. In any case, writing a complete and accurate description is not as easy as it appears in that the writer must strike a balance between a tract and a monograph. While CT does allow "unlimited" text in that area, one must still have a balance of information available, a sufficient knowledge of the genre to put the location in perspective, and current information to make the article timely and valuable to those wanting to know status and the possibility of a tour. While I love the works of Rapp & Rapp and especially the KINGS (one of my 'Favorites'), I do not live in NYC and have never been in the KINGS, and while photos of it do make me want to know more and to appreciate what was, they are not enough with which to write a decent article, since this grandiose palace deserves much, much more than a mere verbal sketch.
Will CT accept a submitted Description/History at this point? You will have to get their reaction as their time permits. (You cannot use the Add-A-Theatre form, due to the fact that the theatre already exists here.)

Hello;
I read the afformentioned article in the Brooklyn Skyline. This Long Islander who originally hailed from Brooklyn would like to know how to get in touch with the group that plans to restore/renovate the Loew's Kings. Maybe concerts and legitimate theater can be presented there. I also remember when people pronounced it Low-wheeze. However, I am a returning college student and theater major so maybe I can help somehow. I am serious though I like to put some humor in what I write for the internet. I pronounced it Low-wheeze when I was.

As far as I know, there is no present group planning to restore/renovate the Kings. The property is owned by the City of New York, which has been trying to find someone to take it over, so far without success, probably due to the huge financial costs involved.

As it turns out I am looking for that Friends of the Kings Organization from that posting by Gena2. Does anyone know how to get in touch with them.

It makes me sad every time I drive or walk by the Kings. I can
still see the beautifully lit marquee with the moving white lights,and of course the mesmerizing LOEW'S sign which would spell
out each letter in dazzling neon.
Does anybody know anything as to what is happening?

I would love to be involved with a group to save this like the group did for the Loews Jersey City.

According to the article mentioned above a person named Bruce Friedman, who has a cable access show in Brooklyn wants to do so. I sent an E-Mail to the channel, and maybe I will receive a reply.

I was never to the Loew's Jersey, I live on Long Island. Did anyone ever hear about the Patchogue Theater for the Performing Arts. It's smaller than the Kings, but it's a vaudeville house that was built in the 1920s, and holds concerts. I once ushered there until they decided to let me go. I should have some idea what they can do with these old houses.

If a preservation group is started please keep us posted. I would love to make a contribution and I am sure that others would as well.
Remember that New York City has a great deal of resources that just need to be tapped into. If this is a commercial infill site, adjacent retail space can be used to generate income and the buisness would get tax incentives. I am sure that with good marketing the people of NYC would love to support this palacial structure. This is the last of the five wonder theaters that is not being developed into some type of venue. Such an edifice should be preserved, especially with the demise of American architecture these days.
Dont let them trample on the divine!

During planning and construction, the theatre was known as Loew's Tilden, presumably to designate its proximity to Tilden Avenue, named in honor of politician and public benefactor Samuel J. Tilden. The name was changed to Kings only a few months before opening.

If anyone's interested, there is a print of "Memoirs of a Movie Palace", a pictorial history, on film, of the Loew's Kings, currently up on ebay. It is auction number 6338606957.

Could we please add an introduction to one of the most important of all NY theatres

Robert, I don't know too much about this theater otherwise i would do it, but maybe if you write a little intro for it, and email to cinematreasures and they could put it in the intro section.

Hi guys. I am not from New York, but need to answer a trivia question about the Lowes Kings Theatre. Does anyone know which mega star once ushered there. Was it Ben Stiller (probably to young), Robert DeNiro or Barbara Streisand

Bill:
The answer is Barbara Streisand.

It's Barbra, a combination of bar and bra, not Barbara.

Hello Again;
I decided to keep you all updated on the search for the guy who wants to restore the King's. He called me, but my mother got the message. I left a message with him, and hopefully he will return it.

Barbra is not the only combinations of bars and bras I have seen...
Uh oh...back to the movies. Hey, we got to have some fun here too...

It's a shame that this once beautiful theatre is now falling apart.

RobertR et al, I have submitted a description for this most magnificent 'Wonder' theatre with the help of THSA documents and David Naylor's books. Also attached a personal photo taken in the 1990's, can't believe it hasn't been done before now.

Come on guys, lets do something about the formation of a 'friends' group to restore the Kings and halt the decline of this truly unique treasure.

I have to applaud Mr. Faulkner who is working from London, England to advocate an American theatre that too few of us prize. Yes, we have a great many lavish movie palaces remaining, and when the day come that CT will once again accept photos, we will no doubt see the reason that so many more deserve preservation, but for now it seems that the truly BIG projects such as the KINGS or the UPTOWN in Chicago are going to fade away until the point come that taxpayers must pay the millions it will take to clear the eventually dangerous crumbling buildings from any access to vagrants and children who find such hulks irresistible. There is another fabulous Rapp & Rapp theatre sitting in Milwaukee, dark and moldering and it too deserves restoration and reuse. But where will all the money come from? These are financially tight times with wars to pay for and tragic social causes of higher priority. Some 'angels' have come along for some theatres, such as the STANFORD in Palo Alto, Calif., and the PABST in Milwaukee, but such 'sugar daddies' are rare and getting rarer. Local publicity groups can sometimes help, but one should not break his own heart by deluding himself that an outside group with no real funds can do more than talk. After all, Proposition L to save the theatres of San Francisco, was just defeated at the polls amid speculation rife with doubt as to accountability --and that initiative did not involve any increase in taxes! (http://www.noonl.com/) What hope is there for the KINGS if one would suggest it become a public facility to be restored by, adapted by, and operated by public taxes? As the old saying goes: 'Wishing isn't getting.' Mr. Faulkner is to be admired, but will any locals with dollars step forward to make it a privately-funded reality? We can only hope.

Does anyone know the steps the friends of Loews in Jersey City took?

The following is a link to the Friends of the Loews website: http://www.loewsjersey.org/ A telephone number as well as information on the aquisition and restoration of the theatre are provided.

Would Streisand like to spearhead a campaign to save this important piece of Brooklyn history? First some money from other Hollywood Brooklynites to make it usable and then a couple of concerts to support a full scale restoration. I understand she has not retired from charitable concerts. Maybe a parade down Flatbush as well for the hometown girl made good.

Vincent, thats not such a strange idea and in fact it could be a stepping stone toward restoration of this jewel.

One of the reasons I think this venue is so neglected is that because of its size and location it has been unseen for nearly 30 years. The locals can't be passionate about something they have been told is fabulous unless they can see it for themselves.Also to see what it was in the past and can be again via photgraphs of they heyday against what it is now. Viewing it in a poor state can also be a powerful incentive to do something urgently. If there is no interest after exposing the community and local investors to something great in their midst, then at least the 'Friends' gave it a chance and failed honorably.

Perhaps Miss Streisand is 'just the ticket' to get the ball rolling??!!

Sorry Guys, but Miss Streisand has been contacted and, last I heard, she didn't return the call. They have only a committee started and not the actual restoration.

In my opinion, the area this theater is located (Flatbush) is just at the beginning of a major regentrification (sorry if I didn't spell that right...). Anyway, it's a prime area that is being discovered by New Yorkers who cannot affort Manhattan. In ten years time, it's going to be all new again. If anyone is going to start a restoration of the Kings, they'd better do it quick. I'm telling you, this area is going to be HOT, HOT, HOT. I lived in Brooklyn in the early 90's. Park Slope was established as a nice area by then. But I've been back recently and I'm shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.

CConnolly is right. Pretty soon a major developer will want it for a condo building. Gustave, do we know if she got the message? With so little she can do so much.

Quote:
and I'm shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.

You are quite correct. Even Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant are currently undergoing gentrification. East New York is also no half as bad as it used to be. With even Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, and ENY on the way up, it's a given that Flatbush will do nothing but improve.

Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.

East NY...not half bad? Oye. That's incredible. I cannot imagine East NY being livable but the way the city is rapidly changing, one never knows. Bed-Stuy...ABSOLUTELY! Block after block of those great old brownstones.

But Flatbush is very special because it has a mix of brownstones and some of the most incredbile, beautiful and astonishing homes in the NY area. Just ride up Flatbush Ave and hang a left or right near the Kings. Your jaw will drop when you get a load of those stately Victorians. I used to spend hours driving around those neighborhoods.

New York Magazine already ran an article about the neighborhood and how couples from Manhattan are snatching up these homes and turning them back into single family dwellings. Think about it: you have a HUGE beautiful home within minutes of Manhattan.

As for the Kings, someone has to get in there and protect it. How does one get Landmark status for something like this?

As for Streisand...are you kidding me? There's no WAY that she's going to schlep from her protective LA environment to come all the way to Brooklyn to protect the Kings. I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.

Why do you say that? If you take Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, much of the neighborhood was already burnt to the ground or abandoned. Many of the old buildings still remaining, are now being refurbished.
To keep it on topic, just look at the RKO Bushwick theater, while it is not a theater anymore, they did all they could to preserve at least the outside of the building, and they did a fantastic job at it. The interior was destroyed through years of neglect anyway. They could have just demolished the whole building. This is the next best thing.

The RKO Bushwick (and it's surrounding neighborhood) went from this to this because of the gentrification and rebuilding of the neighborhood. (The "this's" are clickable).

Bway: nice set of photos. Regentrification is a mixed blessing. It revitalizes some neighborhoods and makes them livable. But it also pushes out the element that makes some neighborhoods unique. A good example of this is 9th Ave in midtown Manhattan. It's still slightly gritty with a lot of non-franchise restaurants from Cuban to Vietnamese to Mom and Pop hardware stores. I find the area charming but what's going to happen in another few years? These places will be gone to be replaced by Starbucks. The second picture you show clearly demonstrates this with a McDonald's sign prominently displayed.

Regentrification is a mixed blessing.

I would give anything to have the Times Square of the 70's back. Yes it was filthy with sex shops, drug dealers and prostitutes all over the place. But so much of what made it a great New York neighborhood still existed. I loved walking around it and now I try to avoid it at every opportunity. Perhaps the highway Robert Moses wanted for Soho can now be put through midtown. Absolutely nothing would be lost. It's already all gone. Are there any of you out there who would regret the loss of the Marriott Marquis, the Virgin Megastore or Toys R Us? And then there's the car dealership also known as the Minskoff.

Your point is well taken. As a child, my parents took us to Times Square a lot in the 70's. I never really thought that it was too bad at all. Whenever I read, see (Taxi Driver) or hear anything about how lousy it was, I find it hard to relate. Ok...I was a child/pre-teen so my age didn't help. Yeah, it was gritty as HELL ( I remember the Times Square station...Whoa! What a place! But it was FUN!). But you know what? There were as many crowds back then as there are now. But now it's tourist city. The "energy" is all manufactured as opposed to it being organic or natural. That's why I like 9th Avenue a lot now. You have these great old hardware stores, shoeshines and quirky restaurants. 10th is even better.

As for Flatbush, it's still gritty and pleasant. But if you go on the other side of Prospect Park (toward Park Slope) the changes are all but complete. It's only a matter of time for it to sweep across the park into Flatbush, and it's already happening. Will the Kings have a place in the "new" Flatbush? If history tells us anything (Times Square) the Kings will not survive. That's why the time to start actively discussing saving it has to be done NOW. I used to love driving up Flatbush Ave. and seeing the old Kings and wonder what it must've been like 40, 50 or 60 years ago.

A picture of the Kings under construction, and a picture of it's "cosmetic room" can be seen at http://www2.hawaii.edu/~angell/thsa/gl-loews.html

Guys, I think you should all take the poll on Loew's Theaters that's on the site this week. THE KINGS IS TRAILING BEHIND THE LOEW'S JERSEY! By the way you are all right. I spoke again with the person who wants to restore the Kings, and they are regentrifying the area. They have a Footlocker, Blockbuster Video, and other stores, and the Sears that has been there since time and memoriam is, this former Brooklynite is glad to hear, still there. Joe Franklin joined the committee to save the Kings. So did I.

But looking at the photos on the French site of the interior today it seems in very bad shape. Is it possible to save? Is enough left to restore it? It looks as though it would have to be almost rebuilt. I hope the photos make the situation look worse than it actually is. The only photo of the interior that I know of as it was originally is from The best Remaining Seats and it was magnificent. One of the architectural glories of Brooklyn.

I know some people that did a walk through in the building a few years ago. There was so much water damage to the stage, they couldn't safely walk on it. The stage roof was wide open to the elements, and rain/snow had been pouring in for years. The place was a mess.

First of all, is there actually a committee dedicated to saving this place? If there is, how do I join? I already shared some memories of this place, and of Dorothy Panzica (God bless her) the wonderful manager of this theatre (back in the 70's) who caught me prowling around the building as a teenager and wound up giving me a grand tour, backstage and all. I'm not from Brooklyn, and live no where near it, but I'm willing to do what I can to help. I remember while I was working in Florida for a few weeks in 1999, an elderly woman walked into the clinic. While conversing with her, she mentioned she was from Brooklyn. I asked her if she was ever in the Loew's Kings. She not only had been there, but her mother took her to the opening day performance! She still had the program from the theatre's first day of operation, and brought it into the clinic to show me! Well, somebody contact me through this site and let me know what, if anything I can do to help save Loew's Kings.

If you scroll through earlier comments, you will find that the theatre is probably still saveable, but that the cost of repairs and restoration would be well upwards of $50 million. Frankly, I don't think that any "committee," no matter how well-intended, can raise that kind of money. IMHO, the Kings will continue to deteriorate until it becomes a safety menace, which will give the city the right to demolish it and sell the land for re-development.

I honestly don't know if you're right or wrong Warren, but you did say almost the same thing about the Paradise too. Anyway, can someone out there tell me how to join this committee that has been mentioned previously?

As another comment, let's remember how the Friends of the Loew's accomplished so much. They couldn't afford the contractor's estimate to get the stage and orchestra lifts working again, so they did it themselves. It was the same with the restoration of the marquee, and even the restoration of the organ. The thing to do is not concern ourselves with naysayers, but look to people who have accomplished something and emulate them. If we fail, it shouldn't be for lack of trying. I realize that the Kings is in worse shape than the Jersey ever was, but that doesn't make it impossible. So, if someone out there is organizing, please contact me.

I'll even consider moving to Brooklyn if necessary

I initiated the marquee restoration at the Jersey - and I'm afraid of heights!

If I could do that, ANYTHING is possible!

It is nice of 'Ziggy' and others to be so concerned about the grandiose KINGS to be willing to move there, and Bob Furmanek is to be praised for venturing up on a marquee to work on it when he is afraid of heights, but I am afraid, folks, that, at the risk of being called a naysayer, I must point out that some MAJOR hurdles confront anyone interested in this particular theatre. Not only is it HUGE, but it is not owned by anyone who apparently has any real interest in preserving it. I am afraid that Warren is evidently right: the city is waiting for it to either be bought by some multi-millionaire or to get to the point of rationalized demolition-- a cost they do not want to bear since it would be in the millions just for that. Look too at the fight the JERSEY had in getting the city to buy it, then getting them to have authority to restore and operate it. It does not seem that Brooklyn is any more willing to turn over real estate to a non-profit than was Jersey City. After all, if a non-profit runs a property, it seems that it will not pay taxes in future, and I hardly need remind anyone that taxes are what allow city officials to live in their fine homes. Then there is local politics. Does anyone in political power care about the KINGS? Is it the tradition there to 'grease' the palms of the local politicos to get things like this done? If so, who is wealthy enough to 'grease' enough palms?

Finally we come to the practical matters of restoration IF the 'committee' of whomever does get ownership or control. Once a building reaches the state that it is raining and snowing inside, there are then serious structural problems. No, the huge steel by which the building stands will not collapse any time soon, but lesser structure CAN collapse upon anyone without warning. For example, the plaster that makes up the walls, ceilings, and ornaments in there is NOT waterproof; it will crumble and fail as the steel mesh lath which supports it rusts and both fall, as has happened to large portions already (which is why the city is reluctant about tours = insurance liability). Sure, such plaster and lath can be repaired, but what about the roof above that is leaking and would ruin new plaster? Such roofs cannot be just re-tarred; the structure of the roof deck is far beyond that by now. Can we expect the ladies and a few men on the committee to climb upon a pitched roof some 5 floors high that is dangerous to even walk upon, to demolish the old, rotten decking and dispose of it (fees) and then to haul up there the new (heavy!) decking and professionally anchor it in place? Many professional roofers will turn down such a job due to safety and practicality concerns. Does this all mean that it cannot be saved? No. But is does mean that the city that owns it can rightly expect that any new owner/renter/operator will contract for all such dangerous and code-compliant work (electrical, HVAC, etc. etc.) and that it must and WILL be done according to legal standards. By all means, form a committee of concerned citizens and as Porter Faulkner says: "raise the consciousness" of the locals, but do not dream that un-licensed non-professionals can do all that needs to be done aside from minor interior work. Anyone that can restore a pipe organ is to be admired, but that is a far cry from having both the skills and the tools to do major structural work. Professionals will have to be found and hired, and they cost BIG BUCKS. Such a job cannot, nor should be, done on the cheap. Long live the once glorious KINGS, if an 'angel' with mega bucks can be found!

Jim is right, and the politics of the situation at the Kings is a very serious issue. I had ten years of that over at the Jersey, and it's not pretty folks!

As bad as the Jersey was (and don't forget - it was triplexed,) at least it never had holes in the roof where it was exposed to the elements. The Kings is going to need a LOT of help.

I've just posted something on the board for the Hudson Theater on W. 44th Street in NYC. I had heard about this theater and how it is incorporated into the Millenium Hotel but got a chance to look at it today. The hotel has probably the most ridiculous LACK of security I've ever seen. One can walk straight through the lobby and over to the Hudson Theater space.

What an ingenius use of the space, though. Not only is it beautifully restored but it's in amazing shape. And what's even better is that it's being USED. They were setting up a conference in the space and no one seemed to care that I was just looking around.

This could be a model for what developers COULD do, if they're willing, to a space like the Kings.

Well, let me say I admire you Jim Rankin, and I consider you a friend I haven't yet met, (by the way, thank you for the lengthy email. I will answer you, but I don't have a computer of my own, so as soon as I can spend the time at the neighbor's, I'll send you a reply worthy of the message you sent me) but you also said it wasn't possible for the Paradise to reopen, or at least that it would be extremely unlikely, to the point of not happening, yet, at last report, it is happening. So, we're all aware of how difficult it will be, thanks. Now, let's get some constructive suggestions going. I'm single, and my career is such that I can pretty much move where I want, so my offer to move to Brooklyn (if it comes to that ) is a serious one.

One of the key factors in saving the Jersey was creating public awareness of what's there. When we began doing film shows in the lobby, the exterior looked horrendous. The marquee was full of broken glass; the underside was covered with peeling paint, and the entrance was completely boarded up. People had to enter the outer lobby through a small entry door. But, once inside, the lobby astounded them. (At that time, the auditorium was divided into 3 and looked terrible!) We presented 16mm film shows in the lobby space and got people back to the theater and to Journal Square again. Many people commented on the fact that they had no idea what a magnificent showplace existed beyond that decrepit exterior. The momentum built, petitions were signed, council meetings were attended, and the theater was saved. But, I've got to be honest, it was a LOT of very, very hard work.

Something should be done to increase awareness of the Kings, but I don't know if the lobby is even usable at this point.

It's one thing to sit at a computer and type messages on how important the Kings is, etc. It's another thing to get down there and become involved. Be prepared to give up all of your free time, and (if you're lucky to gain access) to work in a dirty, cold, decaying building with no running water. And, it's going to take years to make even a little bit of progress. Ask any of the long-term volunteers at the Jersey. Also, be prepared for seedy officials and politicians who will say and do things behind your back to make themselves look better. Again, it's all happened at the Jersey.

While it may sound fun and exciting, the concept of saving and restoring a movie palace is no easy task! I wish anyone involved with Loew's Kings all the very best of luck.

Yes, public awareness is key. Hate to say it, but the way the neighborhood is now, it will be difficult to find that much support there. It would have to come (largely) from the other side of Prospsect Park, in Park Slope and those areas. I know a lot of people in that area who for years wouldn't dare to cross over into the area where the Kings is (I never thought it was that bad...).

I hate to sound like Pollyanna you guys, and I know that all the objections brought up are reasonable ones. I'm not concerned about getting dirty, I even enjoy it if I have something to show for it. I'm familiar with the need for politicians to aggrandize themselves at the expense of the public which they "serve", and also their complete willingness to stab anyone in the back. I know the Jersey had a huge advantage in two ways: 1)no hole in the roof 2)near a major transportation hub. But let's not compare to the Jersey. Let's take the Kings for what it is, a wreck, but still a salvageable one (though perhaps not much longer). The city may be willing to sell to a non-profit because, even if it's not on the tax rolls, it would eventually become an asset to the neighborhood. A quick aside to Bob Furmanek and CConolly....would you two be interested in corresponding via email? You sound like an interesting couple of people to know.

Maybe if someone from Brooklyn could get Barbra Streisand to at least send a letter of support for restoring the Kings in New York it might generate a lot of publicity for the theatre. Try and contact Neil Diamond who also went to school with Barbra. When I toured the historic theatres of New York a few years ago I was most impressed with Loew's Kings even with the water damage. I regard the Kings as my favorite NYC theatre still standing. There is a rumor that Barbra and Neil may tour together in the near future so the time maybe ripe for Back To Brooklyn reunion.Im sure Miss Streisand is bothered by people all the time to support this or that but I get the feeling she has a special place in her heart for the theatre she watched many of M-G-M films in her youth. I think if she was approached in the right way and by the right person she would lend her support to the theatre she spent many enjoyable hours in the dark.brucec

Ziggy, I'll be happy to offer any advice I can via e-mail. But, my days of volunteering and working in old theaters are far behind me!

Letters of support will accomplish a few things: good PR, and you can read them at council meetings and send them to local papers. That's about it. We had several high profile ones for Loew's Jersey (Jerry Lewis, Leonard Maltin, etc.) but they don't save the theater. It certainly wouldn't hurt Ms. Streisand to write one.

Bob F. I would love to email you. I do we exchange email addresses without giving them out to the entire CT site?

Hopefully I will be able to get in touch with the person who wants this on Tuesday. We may have some Professors from Stony Brook University, where I am a returning student, interested.

GOOD NEWS, THE ROOF WAS REPAIRED! In other words, it's no longer raining inside the theater. The building is owned by the city, who wants it restored if they can get the money. The land is owned by Sears, which has a store behind the theater. They want to change the name to the Sears Center for the Performing Arts.

Latest News from the poll, we are in second place.

Oh, my gosh. Those pics are absolutely Fab!!!
I so, hope that they fix this place up. I'll be like the first fashionably late person to make my entrance at the opening gala.
My girlfriends and I were volunteer painters with with this urban youth group that my Dad sponsored and we bought these color coordinated painting outfits that match each other (in different colors) to paint flowers and rainbows over grafitti in a Long Island elementary school playground. So since then we havent even used the outfits and I think that it is time for my friends and I to do some good deeds again. We would love to get our hands dirty.
Keep us posted and let us know when its time to roll!

I heard that Sears has just been bought by Kmart, so I'm not sure that there is that much hope for a "Sears Performing Arts Center" since Sears apparently never intended to pay for any restoration, else they would have done so by now. No wonder things haven't progressed at the KINGS: the land is owned by someone with no theatre experience, and the building is owned by the city of Brooklyn which also is not in the theatres business. Let us hope that an 'angel' can be attracted to the place soon. Let us also hope that such an 'angel' will employ professional decorators and painters such as those works displayed by www.conradschmitt.com and not amateurs who may have been responsible for the VALENCIA's recent garish decor paint.

The thought of fluorescent colors, flowers and who knows what other grafitti in a Rapp & Rapp designed house absolutely boggles the mind. Also, I can't visualize Kmart being in the theater business. They have a hard enough time competing in the retail business as it is.

It would be interesting to know how Sears became owner of the Kings' land site, if indeed that's true. Did Sears (then known as Sears & Roebuck) already own that plot when it was decided to build a theatre there? If so, it suggests that Loew's (or Paramount-Publix, which started the "Wonder Theatres" project), had to lease the land from Sears & Roebuck. However, it also seems possible that Sears bought the land after the Kings closed, anticipating that the theatre would eventually be demolished and that it could build a new store on the site.

Jim, KMart bought Sears, however, "Sears" is the name of the new consolidated company.
Warren, I would assume your last scenario is probably what happened, although that is pure specualtion on my part. It could be that they did indeed buy the property to either convert it to a store, or assuming it would be demolished, and they would build a store there.

That's nice.

That's nice.

Tomorrow I am going to speak to several professors about the Kings. I hope we can fix it. This former person from Flatbush prays it's so.

News on the poll, WE ARE NOW NECK AND NECK with the LOEW'S JERSEY

I spoke with a professor, and will speak with some students about the Kings. I will see if I can put some contact information on the site when I speak with the head, or I will send him to this chat room.

WE WON THE POLL

Some have speculated that if they could contact Barbara Streisand, they might be able to get her cooperation to some extent in revitalizing the KINGS. I append below her Agent and Recording company (as a secondary route in case the agent route fizzles). I strongly urge anyone writing her through her agent to make it a very PROFESSIONAL appeal, and NOT FOR MONEY. What you want is her Endorsement of your efforts, and perhaps ask her to share a favorite memory of her tenure there. You want to get her involved in such a way that it does NOT presume upon her time or talent. Perhaps sending her an opening day photo along with a present day photo (8x10s) will help her recall. Do NOT say that you will invite her to sing there when it is restored; she has stated that she will not appear in public much anymore. Since she is a famous feminist, it might be best if a woman approaches her via a letter with the photos enclosed. If possible, send the letter/photos in a RIGID mailer perhaps of Tyvek so that it arrives in good condition; the postal service is all automation now and heavy loads will descend upon anything put into the mail, and moisture is always a threat, which Tyvek will also repel. Sending it by CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED will at least let them know that you take it seriously, and you will have proof that her agent received it (the postal service cannot vouch for where anything goes unless you PAY to have it tracked!). Any letter should strike a balance between an appeal, and a recognition of her presence in the entertainment community and how she could lend her name if not also sponsorship. You might ask for just a personal note from her as to her thinking on the matter of bringing the KINGS back to its glory days when she was there. A **little** flattery can help, but she must not get the impression that you are fawning or want to obligate her in any way. Do NOT use Fax, as the copy that results on their side may be a cheap chemical paper that will not carry any idea of class on your part; use a good grade of paper without being too fancy. Address the envelope to her in care of her agent, and perhaps mark the envelope above the address: "THIS IS NOT FAN MAIL" else it might be sent to a fan mail service which most stars employ. BEST WISHES!

Management:
Martin Erlichman Associates Inc.
Address:
5670 Wilshire Blvd. Ste. 2400
Los Angeles, CA 90036
Phone
323.653.1555
Fax
323.653.1593

Record Co.:
Columbia Records
Address:
550 Madison Ave.
New York, NY 10022-3211
Phone
212.833.8000
Fax
212.833.5401

I will pass this information to the person in charge of the committee. It's not me by the way.

Regarding Sears Roebuck ownership of the land on which the Kings Theater stands: I believe Sears may have acquired it in the early 1950's when the area was booming and Sears needed more parking space for automobiles for their big Art Deco store on Beverly and Bedford a couple of blocks east. The store dates back to around 1934 when it replaced a Sears Roebuck catalog store in a small rustic building on the same site. Over the years they bought more property to create new parking lots around the new store. Store traffic peaked in the 1949-53 period and it is my recollection that then is when the area behind the Kings became a Sears lot with spaces right up to the brick walls. The land on which the Kings was built was once owned by the Brooklyn Rapid Transit and a few predecessor entities, probably up to 1928 when construction was planned for the theater.

A post script to my previous regarding approaching Streisand: By all means, FIRST set up a registered NOT-FOR-PROFIT 501-C3 corporation named something like "Pages of the Kings Theatre" (playing on the word 'page' which was a part of a king's court). Once you have received this from the IRS, make up a simple yet artistic letterhead with names of the principals on it as well as the name of the bank at which you have established an account with a line something like "Funds maintained at XX bank." With these measures you be better seen as legitimate and of an enduring nature, and that if she should ON HER OWN VOLITION enclose a check, she will know that it will go to a legitimate organization. Best Wishes!

Here is how to get in touch directly with the person who starting the committee to reopen the Loew's Kings. His name is Bruce Friedman, and his E-Mail is thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

PS This is not my E-Mail

By the way, Mister Friedman is the Head of Friends of the Kings (I think that's what it's called), which may be a not for profit.

By the way did you know that according to this site the Kings has more seats then these Broadway Theaters? Here's the list:

Ford Center for the Performing Arts (42nd Street); 1839
Palace (Aida); 1733
Broadway (Bombay Dreams); 1752
New Amsterdam (Lion King); 1702
Cadillac Winter Garden (Mamma Mia); 1533
Lunt Fontanne (???); 1475
Times Square [This theater is being restored]; 1056

Unbelievable ain't it?

The fact that the KINGS is much larger than any of the theatres listed above is impressive and could mean that more people could see a given performance at the same time, but, unfortunately, it also means that these seats must be continually filled in order to pay for and justify their existance. Greater capacity means greater costs. And if any of the shows want an 'intimate' atmosphere, they will not find that at the KINGS, of course. How many shows can really draw over 3,000 people for a performance without also having a huge screen suspended above the stage with images of what is going on, on the stage so that those in the rear can see the performance? The place was, after all, designed for images larger than life.

Hello Everyone, I copied the following quote from the friends of the sammerick (also known as Sam Eric 4 and Boyd theatre) website at: http://savethesameric.org/

"Very important, a feasible plan to restore and reopen the Boyd has been put forth, with Clear Channel as the intended operator for musicals and concerts. Like many other large corporations, we found that Clear Channel has its detractors, but they have a tremendous track record of restoring and programming movie palaces in other cities. We have emphasized that in return for public funding, community access to the theater should be provided with a film program, public tours, and other public benefits"

Perhaps Clearchannel could help the Loews Kings.

The Boyd is located in the heart of downtown Philadelphia. I doubt that Clear Channel would be interested in the Kings, which is in the middle of nowhere for most residents of Greater New York.

Unfortunately, there is much misinformation on this message board:
#1-The land under the Loew's Kings is not and was never owned by Sears.

#2-The theater is owned by the NYC Economic Development Corporation- which plans to issue, still another RFP as early as next month. They, along with the Brooklyn Borough President (And my group: Save The Kings) have long wanted it to reopen as a Center for the Performing Arts.

#3-Clear Channel Entertainment (Ron Delsener) went with me on a guided tour of the Kings and thought it might serve as a concert venue. Then, Clear Channel entertained talks but so far, NO help!

#4-Warren, don't worry Sears does not own the lot! [Paramount-Publix started the "Wonder Theatres", facing bankrupcty sold it to Marcus Loew. The land UNDER Sears is and has been owned by Vornado REIT and they are a major shareholder in both KMart and Sears. The 750 car parking lot (behind theater) is NOT owned by Sears, they have their own lot! EDC owns this lot and Bruce Ratner (Master Builder: Nets Arena, Atlantic Center, Metrotech, etc.) has a long term lease on parking lot for that exclusive purpose.)

Why Hasent Clear Channel looked at the Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, which once hosted incredible concerts like the Beatles and Frank Sinatra?

Does FHTS have a roof? If not, I doubt that it could be used as a concert venue on a regular basis...Also, I think that residents of the area are against it because of all the crowds and associated problems that it would bring.

Warren,
The theatre happens to be in Brooklyn NYC which makes it a great location. Long Island would be considered the middle of nowhere for most city residents. A Clearchannel representative has already toured the building and made suggestions. The middle of nowhere was obviously easier to find than you thought.

I think that the Kings' only salvation (no pun intended) will be if a church takes it over. Unfortunately, the Kings may have lost that chance when the Jehovah's Witnesses took over the nearby Albemarle Theatre and did a magnificent job of renovation. I don't know if the JWs ever considered the Kings instead, but perhaps it wasn't available at the time. I have no faith (again no pun intended) in Ron Delsener coming to the rescue of the Kings, based on the messes that he made of the Academy of Music in Manhattan and the Capitol in Westchester County. I'm surprised that he is now a "consultant" to a major company. The man has no respect for theatres as architecture.

As we had in discussion in other theater sections, churches make great "after" theater uses. While it's not ideal (what would be better than keeping it as a theater), churches are the least "damaging" to the integrity of a theater. Theaters lend themselves great to being churches, because they need a "stage" area (the altar), they need all the seats, etc, so the least destruction is done when they become churches. Many of the theater churches are well maintained; the 175th St theater in Manhattan is a showpiece, and they even use the old theater organ. The Loews Gates in Brooklyn is in great condition. The congregation originally started in the RKO Bushwick many years ago, and then moved to the Loews Gates. Just imagine if they had stayed in the RKO Bushwick, it may not be gutted today (although then we would have probably have lost the Loews Gates). The Valencia in Jamaica is very well maintained (even if painted quite gaudy on the interior - again it's better than the alternative). Even smaller theaters like the Wyckoff Theater, etc are being maintained. The Belvedere in Glendale is also in beautiful condition.
However, most of these "churches" took over the theaters right after the theaters stopped showing film (although the Belvedere was a store for a while). So these theaters did not fall into the condition the Kings is in. They were more easily restored because while most of them probably needed work, they weren't neglected for years on end. The Kings will be a monumental endevour even if they would find a church for it. There even are many church buildings that are even falling apart because the congregation can't afford to maintain them.

Since the Jehovah's Witnesses did such a remarkably good job on both the STANLEY and the ALBERMARLE, among others, it may be a good idea for the leaders of the 'Save the KINGS' committee to meet by appointment with the officials of the Witnesses (their world HQ is in Brooklyn on the East River) who may have been offered the KINGS years ago when they were looking for a site and settled upon the STANLEY in Jersey City. Likely they will readily share with you the reasons that the KINGS site --if ever offered to them-- was not then adaptable to their uses, since the STANLEY and the KINGS are close to the same size. If they did survey the KINGS, then they likely have numerous photos as well as documents concerning the place that they could show you, and thus give you a better idea of the problems they faced, even as a tax-exempt group.

This is another reason that so many churches take over theatres: they and their property are exempt from taxes, so they can undertake what would be financially very difficult for anyone else. If they can garner enough free labor volunteers, as the Witnesses do, then they can undertake even massive projects such as the KINGS with only the costs of materials their concern. Something tells me that the Witnesses are not likely to step forward about the KINGS if they already have the huge STANLEY, but it wouldn't hurt to ask them. I've heard that their numbers are rapidly growing, and it must be a difficult drive from Brooklyn and Long Island over to Jersey City for their thousands of members in that area. Perhaps if they were invited to tour the KINGS, it was decades ago when the area was in less favorable condition as to safety. Would they view it differently today?

To: Jim Rankin
From: Bruce (Save The Kings) thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
It's possible that Jehovah's Witnesses did survey the Loew's Kings before taking over the Albermale or redoing the Stanley. However, the Stanley is over 5,000 seats, while Loews
Kings was originally 3,692 but was later reduced to 3,192 for more comfortable seating. However, you're suggestion about asking JW, if they did a site survey and if they have photographs or documents is clever! Or what problems they faced even as a tax exempt organization...

If members of cinematreasures wanted to start our own tax exempt organization and answer the RFP, coming soon... then maybe, we could garner enough free labor volunteers, etc. etc. and try to Save The Kings as a Center for the Performing Arts. In some ways learning from the experience of JW and also the Loew's Jersey team.

By the way, such an idea has been suggested to me in the past by the Loew's Kings Project Mgrs of the NYC Economic Development Corporation. However, I thought that this idea was just tooo hard to put into practice. However, maybe it is possible? Especially since Borough President - Marty Markowitz very much wants to see a comeback of the Kings as a Center for the Arts!!

Theater restoration specialists have their facilities in Brooklyn and possibly, they would help to teach our volunteers, the tricks of the trade?

Bruce.

It's about time I chimed in on this discussion now. Before anyone decides to start a not for profit then they have to consult a lawyer. You have to be registered in the State of New York. I remember this from a paralegal course I took in 1991.

I also thought of the Home Depot possibly sponsoring the project because they can work with the specialists as well as show the people how to handle the repairs. Another possibility would be an engineering college.

As a major in theater, I would like to see it as a performance space. Radio City Music Hall is Successful, so the Kings can be.

Will the friends of the kings be creating a website?

How does one get to the Kings from Manhattan and can one go inside at any point during the weekend?

You can take any subway that goes to Flatbush. It takes about 20-25 minutes from Times Square. However, I don't think that you can enter the Kings unless someone representing its current guardian grants permission and takes you in. You would have to have a good reason, such as being interested in buying the theatre. It's not open to viewing by the general public, except from the outside.

A side note to any 'intrepid' folks who are confident taht they can gain entry to any place, with or without permission: Entry to any place without the owners' permission is ILLEGAL, and even if an owner discovers you there and does not prosecute for malicious trespass, you cannot KNOW what will await you once inside. There may be two or four legged creatures that will confront you, and what will be your defense or path of escape? Even if the lights do work, where are the switches located, and if you do turn them on, you have used the owners' power at their expense, which can be prosecuted as theft even if no other damage is done. And if something should fall upon you, who will know to rescue you? Be eager, but be practical; get permission and an escort from the owners!

Well how about setting up some kind of NY borough movie palace mini tour allowing a group of us some weekend day a visit to the Paramount the Kings and the Paradise? This would obviously involve a lot of planning and a fee but with a bus and the proper permits and insurance I think those of us New Yorkers who regularly visit this site would greatly appreciate a visit to some of the most beautiful buildings that still exist in the tri-state area. And who knows how much longer we will have this chance before they join the rubble of the Roxy?

If no one else steps forward, one might ask the NYC area Director of the THEATRE HISTORICAL SOC., Joe Masher, via his E-mail at: joemasher@aol.com

The owners of the paradise will not allow official tours until construction is complete. It is still a hard hat area. From what I saw last month, the interior should take no more than six to eight months for it to be safe.
I would love to tour the kings (Great idea Vincent!).
Perhaps we can wait until construction is done with at the paradise so that we can tour all five wonder theatres. We can schedule it on a weekend that Loews Jersey is presenting a film so that we can enjoy a film in an operating movie palace after the tour. If we arrive early we can get a tour of the Stanley Theatre across the street.
I dont think that we will need a bus since all theatres are accessible by mass transit.

I'm sure the nice folks at Loew's Jersey would welcome a volunteer crew with open arms! Just bring some work clothes, and they'll let you visit any area of the theater. They're very receptive to anybody that wants to do volunteer work for them.

Those amongst us with wings don't even have to rely on mass transit...The Kings, Loew's Jersey and Stanley were visited during the last Theatre Historical Society of America Conclave in NYC in 2002, but not all on the same day. Transportation was by chartered bus.

Warren

Does the Kings still have electric service? I was only in the theatre one time to see "The Way We Were" and would love to see it again.

I'm not sure if it has full electrical service or not. I think that flashlights, generators, etcetera are required in parts of the building where the wiring was destroyed during decades of neglect.

The Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Webpage may be placing a page on the site where people can help the Kings reopen. The address of the site is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu The site is already online. The author, Alan G. Wasenius, first has to check to see if he has enough webspace. He is not a Computer Major at SUNY Stony Brook, but a Theater Major. He will be checking with the head of the organization trying to ensure accuracy. He would appreciate it if any of you can tell him where there are any public domain/ fair use photographs of the Kings in its 1960s prime.

I was from Brooklyn and I think this place is in the middle of nowhere, unless you are taking the bus or driving. The nearest subway lines are several blocks awaw, either on East 16th Street or on Nostrand Avenue; no subway line runs along that part of Flatbush Avenue. So unless you're really devoted it could be a chore to get there.

I know that the Theatre Historical Soc. has a number of photos from opening day as well as later years; you would do well to ask them via their E-mail of the Ex. Director given on the bottom of their front page at: www.HistoricTheatres.org (DO NOT mention Cinema Treasures since there is some ill will at present, it appears. Don't ask me why or how; I only perceive this and could be wrong.)

For the record, Cinema Treasures harbors no "ill will" towards the Theatre Historical Society of America whatsoever and heartily suggests any researcher, historian, or enthusiast contact them for any projects, etc.

By the way, another tremendous resource is the B'hend and Kaufmann collection at the Margaret Herrick Library (part of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences) in Beverly Hills.

Saps,
I am sure that there are taxis near the subway and public busses as you mentioned. It seems ideal.

Exactly how many blocks is the theatre from the subway?

How wonderful that you have wings to fly us around Warren.
However I think that it is more interesting to travel as worldly and sophicisticated pedestrians rather than being crampped up in a tourbus like a bunch of gawking tourists. There may be wonderful suprises that will come up as we wander through the city.

Who will provide our transportation?

The Loew's Kings has been closed since 1979 and at the present time, the NYC Economic Development Corporation will allow no visitors. They will issue an RFP (Request For Proposal) very shortly. Most recently, they authorized an asbestos-lead abatement study and were most happy to learn that this was not a problem!

As far as working electric, there's enough for illumination but it could hardly be described as complete. The building has not been heated for years and it is colder inside than outside!! So it doesn't matter what time of year, it's still cold inside!

I do a weekly Cable TV show and have done several episodes about and inside the Loew's Kings. Along with interior footage, I have interviewed restoration specialists, theatrical producers, etc. I am very glad that my enthusiasm is shared by so many of you and hope that our collective effort will eventually get this place restored and reopened as a Center for the performing arts.

As far as the Loew's Paradise, I have taken an extensive tour and found the theater ready for use and that was a year ago! Unfortunately, the operator spent all that money and then lost his lease. Since then, really nothing has progressed.

My graduation from Lafayette High School in 1966 was held at the Loew's Kings which never made much sense to me being that Lafayette is in Bensonhurst. But for some reason, many high schools in Brooklyn had their graduation there. Interesting though, my wife's graduation in 1968 from Erasmus Hall High School, which is right down the street, was not held there, but rather on the school campus.

Bruce 1;
Have you had any volunteers from any Long Island Colleges yet?
Sincerely
Alan G. Wasenius

Would you all please forget I put my name there

(LOL)!Of Course we will Alan. :)

Dear Bruce 1,

what cable system and what channel does your show appear on? I would love to see your shows about the Kings. I have RCN in Manhattan, so if your show is on anything related to Time Warner I won't get it. I have been trying to get a copy of the documentary about the Kings Memoirs of a Movie Palace. Ziggy said there was one for sale on ebay but I could not find it. I own a video store in Manhattan and I would transfer the VHS of this film to DVD and loan it out free to my customers. I would also make it available to T.H.S.O.A. members as well as Cinema treasures.org members. I saw this film years ago and have been trying to get it for now 20 years.
I will be doing a photo exhibit in my store called "movie theatres of the Upper Westside" very soon. I have some great and not so great pictures from the municipal archives of theatres long and not so long gone. But all missed.

Thank you,

Movie Place NYC

Now that Barbra has another concert tour planned for the summer maybe she should kick it off at the Kings. And if it's with Neil Daimond isn't he from NY as well? Now I know this can only happen in our dreams(these people insist that the logistics of these things be overwhelming and arcane) but it sure is a hell of an idea.

Movie Place,
What is your store called? And where is it located?

Vincent, Neil Diamond is from Brooklyn.

Divinity, my store is called Movie Place. We are located at 237 W 105th Street just off of Broadway in Manhattan. The photo exhibit will go up probably right after the New Year. I am still waiting for pictures of Loew's 83rd, The New Yorker and the Olympia. I have picures of the Riverside, Riviera, Schyler, Arden (the exterior was an art deco masterpiece)The Nemo and the Carlton which was on Broadway between 99th & 100th streets. It is now ironically occupied by the Griestedes (I forgot how to spell that particular form of hell) that was rumored to be eventually occupying the Metro Twin across Broadway. In addition I do have 2 slides of the interiors of the Riverside and Riviera, which are from very early in their existence. I have slides that were taken by Michael Miller much later. I am thinking about enlarging the older black & white slides. I just want to show people what we once had on the upper westside, what we have lost. Of course I would plug Cinema Treasures as well as the T.H.S.O.A. within the exhibit.

A special page has been added to the New York Nostalgia Buff Website. It is about the Kings. the url address is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm and any suggestions can be written here.

If Streisand "kicked off" her tour at the Kings, it would have to be out on the sidewalk or in a nearby parking lot, because the theatre is unfit for use until millions of dollars in repairs are made. I somehow doubt that she would pay for it herself.

Dear Movie Palace:
I have featured the Loew's Kings, the Loew's Paradise, the Loew's Pitkin, the RKO Bushwick and other vaudeville/movie palaces, complete with interior footage on various episodes of my show, but as far as when or which will be repeated, such decisions must still be made.

'That's Brooklyn' can be seen on the following schedule:
BROOKLYN
Tues. 11 AM & 7 PM, Time Warner Ch. 56/Cablevision Ch.69
INTERNET REAL TIME: www.bcat.tv/bcat - See Channel 3

QUEENS
12:30 PM - Time Warner Ch. 34 and 9:30 PM - Ch. 35

MANHATTAN
07:00 PM - Time Warner Ch. 56 AND RCN Ch. 108

INTERNET REAL TIME: www.mnn.org

Every week, a different episode airs in each borough!

As far as the docomentary, 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace' -- if you can find it, this tape is worth watching. It features Harold Rambusch who did the decorative design for the Loew's Kings, Brooklyn Paramount, The Roxy and some work on the Music Hall. The program also features Dorothy Solomon Panzica, manager of Loew's Kings 1961-75, a board member of 'Save The Kings' and a personal friend!

As far as Neil Diamond and Miss Babs, we don't expect their money, but their moral support and star power could help to bring the right attention to saving this cathedral of the ornate. Barbara has talked 'glowingly' about her days as a King's usherette, but has not responded to my letter-- which was hand delivered by her agent.

Bruce1, am I to understand that Dorothy Panzica is still alive!? Can you tell me how to contact her? My parents, my great aunt, and I visited the Kings in the early 70's just because I wanted to see the building. Dorothy caught me prowling around and gave me a personal top to bottom tour. I thought she was a terrific lady. I would love to write to her and tell her I've never forgotten her. Please tell me where she is and how she's doing!

Dear Ziggy,
Dorothy is alive and well, but out of courtesy, I will ask permission before giving out her #.


Bruce

Dear Warren.
You're idea about Streisand doing an outdoor concert in a nearby parking lot--has merit! It so happens that there is a 750 car parking lot, right behind the Loew's Kings and it is adjacent to Sear's lot. The Borough President could easily arrange for the stage, sound system and lighting.

If I could only think of who has the long term lease on that parking lot? Oh yeah! It's Bruce Ratner, developer of the Nets Arena Complex at Flatbush & Atlantic. Maybe we could start a massive letter writing campaign to Mr. Ratner? After all, he bought the Jersey NETS, maybe he'd buy one night with Barbra?

Sear's Flatbush is behind the Loew's Kings. As you all know, Sears has been taken over by KMART money. Remember the old Bob Vila commercials? Why not suggest to Sears that they rebuilt this OLD HOUSE?? Then it could become the Sear's Center for the Performing Arts. Couldn't Sears --- donate paint, Craftsmen Tools, whatever? They've been there since 1934, isn't it about time they gave something back to the community?

Bob Vila hasn't been associated with 'This Old House' for several years. He has his own show now called 'Home Again' which is mostly sponsored by Sear's, with a heavy emphasis on using Craftsman tools on many of the projects, in addition to the commercials. Nevertheless, the idea of Vila and Sears, with the possibility of Sear's lending it's name to the project, could be a good one.

Hello Bruce! I'm so glad to hear Dorothy is still alive! Is there some way I can confidentially get my contact info to you? That way you can give it to her, and she can be in control as to whether she wants to contact me or not. I would be amazed if she still remembered me, but I would love the chance to tell her hello.

It might actually be a good time to contact Sears' chief operating officer, or better yet, the billionaire who just bought them and Kmart a year ago. Many companies are looking for 'image' properties and the publicity that public good will would bring to them. Any approach to them should be very professional in tone and delivery, with possibly a full corporate presentation scheduled before the chairman and the board of directors of the new holding company. They are the ones that now control the purse strings and may be impressed enough to impose their wish for this even if the Sears executives are not enthusiastic. Since Sears now is also the sponsor of the TV show EXTREME MAKEOVER--HOME EDITION, they might be in the mood to top their work there with something like this "Sears Performing Arts Center" but then again, maybe it should be presented as being in the name of that billionaire who runs it all. I can't recall his name, but it will be in the current news media on-line though any business magazine.
One would have to write their HQ to get an appointment to approach the Board of Directors and the Big Man, but would probably have to convince someone of lower rank first as to the idea's merit, seriousness of purpose, and feasibility. This means at least something like a PowerPoint presentation, with photo blowups of the site, past and present, as well as the Sears store behind it. Remember that they do not go to all their stores, so may have no clear idea of the physical situation there; an aerial shot to show proximity may help. If you can get the Brooklyn borough chief to go with such as BruceC and perhaps an architect who has drawn up sketches on spec, then you will have a convincing team that can emphasize that Sears tools and materials will be prominent in the rebuild, and that cameras will follow the whole project. Since ABC television now runs the show on-air, it might be best to first contact them to see if they will film and air a show about such a project, and a letter from them to the Big Man may grease your way into their board room. And if you can line up a celebrity to offer to open the place in front of ABC's cameras for a special, then you may have a working formula, provided that you have also written out a workable business plan for the place. One experienced theatre rehabilitator is Paul Warshauer of Grande Venues Co. ( http://www.grandevenues.com/ ) outside of Chicago. He might be willing to undertake the entire project supervision for a fee. Asking NYC's Evergreen Studios (locate them through the League of Historic American Theatres: www.LHAT.org ) or the famous Conrad Schmitt Studios ( www.conradschmitt.com ) to do a "sample" in the building will help greatly in getting people to see what can be achieved, and photos of this should be brought to the presentation. Best Wishes New Yorkers; you are in a position to help save a theatrical jewel for the entire nation.

Jim I am in total awe. Who are you? What do you do?

Vincent: This is not the place for an autobiography, but suffice it to say that I have been studying theatre architecture and related topics since the 1960s, so do have a few years under my belt. If I come across as experienced, that can only be attributed to the year I spent as the Archivist/Historian to the 1895 National Historic Landmark PABST theatre here in Milwaukee. I am a published researcher and writer, but neuropathy is now robbing me of my ability to do much more, so at least appreciative people like you make CT a wonderful forum for our shared interest, as I have told the owners of this site, Ross and Patrick, several times.

Bruce 1;
It may be a good idea for you to put the show on out here on Long Island. There are many displaced Brooklynites out here that may show interest.

Dear Bruce 1,

thank you for responding. I did find it for sale on eBay but it is the actual film, like on a reel. I did see it once and I vividly remember the interviews with Dorothy Solomon. Her love for the building was palpable. If I am remembering it correctly, there was also interviews with a longtime projectionist and an organist. Again if I am remembering it correctly the organist came up with the console on its lift just to the side of the orchestra pit.
The last manager of Loew's 83rd was one of those people that had a real love for these buildings. I do not remember his name but he had worked at Shea's in Buffalo. He gave me a tour of what was left and what had been unseen for years, a tour that reminded of ziggy's tour of The Kings. I wish I hhad a camera. Incredibly, the stage was intact. There have been so many missed opportunities over the years to document these places in their various states of restoration or decay. I am glad that you have footage of the RKO Bushwick. I have been trying to find a copy of the Don Johnson movie that was shot in the Japanese Gardens (above the Riviera ) in Manhattan. I am very partial to Thomas Lamb and I have been kicking myself for 25 years that I had not explored the Riverside and Riviera Theatres before they were torn down. I wish that I had the foresight to have photographed these places but alas, I was too young. I am so glad I found this site. I cannot tell you, all of you how much this site means to me. I thought I was alone in my love for these buildings. Sorry, if I am rambling but I have been here at work for just under 14 hours. I will try to watch your show. I believe I get RCN Manhattan channel 108.
Thank you again and if you ever lecture any where please e-mail me.

Thank you again,

Movie Place

I have four copies of "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" that I used on the buses for the THS Conclave in 2002. We watched them on our way to the Kings for our tour. I recently found them, and will donate them to THSA in January when we have our Mid-Year Board Meeting.

Everyone,
"Memoirs of a Movie Palace" is available for loan from the New York Public Library, here is the info:

Memoirs of a Movie Palace
Christian Blackwood Productions, 1979
Call #: VTH 2832 M
1 videocassette (45 min.)
Summary: Before the proliferation of homogenized multiplex theaters, there existed the sumptuous and ornately otherworldly movie palaces. In Blackwoods's nostalgic documentary, cameras record the worn and melancholic splendor of the Loew's Kings Theater on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. Built just prior to the fateful 1929 Stock Market Crash, the theater conferred temporary royalty on its patrons during hard times and entertained with a bounteous moving picture feat of double features, cartoons, travelogues and serials. The affectionate (and sometimes tearful) reminiscences of loyal patrons are joined by those of the theater's architect, its one-time manager and other former staff members including a projectionist, organist, candy seller, usher and children's section matron. Archival footage, stills and clips from the movies shown at the Loew's Kings offer a glimpse of the theater in its heyday. Today, the once beloved motion picture palace stands locked, abandoned and exhibiting severe deterioration.
Performers: Eli Wallach.
Credits: Producer, director, Christian Blackwood; writer, Elliott Stein.

Anyone with a New York Public Library Card would be able to check this program out, The branch that has it is the Donnell Library Center, located at: 20 West 53rd Street, off of Fifth Avenue, the phone # is 212-621-0618. They are showing it as currently checked in.

I was able to borrow it from them It's an amazing program, well worth the trip to the library.

Hi Guys!
A lot of good ideas are coming out of this message board. However, it seems to me that if we expect to accomplish something, we must communicate-the old fashioned way-by phone. So anyone writing to me at thats.brooklyn@verizon.net and providing a name and phone number, will hear from me!

We must arrange a meeting, PLAN AN AGENDA and DELEGATE RESPONSIBILITIES.

OK, so here's my e-mail. thats.brooklyn@verizon.net


Bruce1

Alan, you're doing a hell of a job. Just remember you're not trying to Save The World, You're Just Trying to Save The Kings! Not the King of Kings, but the Loew's Kings.

You're right, Bruce One. I know that.

Alan, it's too bad, but I haven't gotten anybody's e-mail with their name and phone number and therefore, nobody's really ready to Save The Kings.

I just e-mailed you with my information.

I know we are not saving the world here. I was ready to bring the World's Fair back to Flushing Meadow. I haven't heard from that committee in over a year. It's just the idea of being part of a restoration. That I will put myself behind.

Robert R;
I think Bruce1 maybe talking about students from SUNY Stony Brook. I go there and I'm trying to get them interested.

Progress Report: In the last few days, various 'old' high school friends have shown a real interest and want me to meet some influencial people in show business/theater operation. So I will follow up and let you know what happened.

Bruce1

I am involved with Flushing Meadows also, small world.

Yeah, small world

Let's throw a World's Fair at the Loew's Kings!!! After all, living in Brooklyn is like living in the Little United Nations. Only in Brooklyn, it works!

Brooklyn is an amusement park, so let's go along for the ride. The Loew's Kings is a cathedral of the ornate, it's an indoor theme park! The architecture borrows from two main design elements: The Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

Are you listening Walt Disney???

Regards,
Bruce.

Don't laugh Bruce One. Disney is one of the main producers on Broadway, and they did restore the New Amsterdam. Maybe they should be contacted.

Leave no stone unturned :)

If Disney was to operate in Brooklyn, it would be better off taking a stake in Coney Island, which is ripe for re-development and has plenty of open land. Perhaps Disney could move the Kings there on rollers and place it near the ex-Loew's Coney Island. The Kings could be used for concerts and the smaller Coney Island as a playhouse. Disney could surround them with an entire amusement park similar to those it has elsewhere.

Warren, those would have to be the most humungous rollers the world has ever seen! How about a fleet of 500 air balloons picking up at once? And in this season, surely we could get Santa to loan his sleigh and maybe 10,000 reindeer! But surely Brooklyners would shed a tear at the loss of one of their landmarks. We can only hope that more of them come to see the KINGS as a landmark to be preserved.

No one could put a theater on rollers, except maybe Bruce Ratner who did just that with the El Tinge (aka EMPIRE) for AMC Theatres on Times Square.

Well, someone once said to me, 'If the Loew's Kings was only in a better neighborhood?' and I suggested, 'That's a great idea, I can put it on my back and move it.' Realistically, Flatbush is ready for it's close up and let's take advantage of all the things we've got. (Sounds like a song)

Besides, like I've said: Bruce Ratner already holds the lease on the 750 car parking lot adjacent to the Loew's Kings.

Eltinge

Well;
I was figuring that maybe we should contact people that are involved in the entertainment field. Like Dodger Theatricals, they are former Ebbet's Field Fans that produced such hits as Broadway's "Titannic the Musical" and others.

Bruce Ratner may be a good idea if he leases the parking lot. However, he may try to change it into a multiplex again. That would be bad if you ask me.

Is anybody on this page still alive? I haven't heard from you all in days.

The Loew's Kings was joint 2nd/3rd to open of the five 'Wonder Theaters'. It opened on the same day (7th September 1929) as the Loew's Paradise, Bronx, New York.

The opening programme at the Loew's Kings was the 'part talkie' movie "Evangeline" starring Dolores Del Rio and Robert Drew. On stage was a revue "Frills and Fancies", Wesley Eddy and his Kings of Syncopation and the Chester Hale Girls.

It is the 25th largest movie theater built in the USA.

Dear Loew's Kings fans:
Be sure and watch, 'That's Brooklyn' starting next Tuesday at 11 AM and 7 PM
www.bcat.tv/bcat -- for next 2 weeks, for 2 weeks only & only at REAL TIME.
When you get to the web site, Click ON Channel #3

Loew's Kings Part I and Part II. These classic episodes were shot inside this old house approximately 11 years ago and you're sure to enjoy.

In the meantime, I'll be taking a few days off and then we can arrange our first meeting!

Regards to all,
Bruce1

Thanks to Ken Roe for submitting further details about this fabulous theatre.

I did submit a full description and update for this page on November 15th after several members couldn't understand why there wasn't one. I even enclosed a personal picture of the exterior but for some reason Cinema Treasures won't update the page listing or even respond to my 4 emails asking why........

Porter, I am not sure where you've been sending this description to, but I don't ever recall seeing it come in and I check the submissions daily. Once I receive it, I'll make sure this page is updated. Thank you.

Bryan Krefft
Cinema Treasures

Thanks Bryan, will send again.

I thought of a great idea to bring to the Kings, and it may be profittable because of its silly nature, and some nostalgia. I call it the "Brooklyn begins with a B Movie Festival". I bought some schlock "B-Movie" DVDs and it's looks weird and fun what's out there. Instead of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' we can present 'Teenagers from Outer Space'. Then again, there are some great B-Movies, I saw Joan Crawford in 'rain' in there as well as some famous war movies. We pick twelve features and hold it over twelve consecutive days a year with a serial like one from the East Side Kids.

Maybe I should add that the DVDs had a catalog with them, and that's how I got the idea.

Getting DVDs is easy nowadays, but, sad to say, getting performance rights to them in a public place is not. The owner of each title must be tracked down and persuaded to give written permission to use the source of their property that they designate, usually for a very stiff fee! This is one reason that 'vintage movies' festivals seldom occur nowadays outside of non-profits for limited audiences.

Another idea occured to me was a Christmas Show like at Radio City Music Hall except our own. We can make it a multi-media show with video screens beside the stage.

Maybe I should add also, I am talking about 1940s and 1950s "B-Movies". The fee would not be as large.

With modern projection and other things other theaters throughout the country can play the show live, or we can hook up with a theater somewhere else and share the show. I don't normally consider the costs of my idea, I just throw them out.

I think I shouldn't have placed the addition on the B-Movie thing guys, sorry.

I wrote trying to get the famous ushers of this theater in the description above. They said I should add it here. Not only did Barbra Streisand usher there, but so did Henry Winkler and Sylvester Stallone. Ben Vereen's Mother worked there and he danced on the stage.

The Kings is currently a safety menace and can't be opened to the public until millions of dollars in repairs are made. Where do you propose holding this fund-raising event?

This was not a fund raising event, it was just an idea I had for when the Kings was opened.

Furthermore, fund raising events have been held under the marquis of the theater. Has the theater fallen down? No, it hasn't. In other words the building can be saved.

I was looking at a Los Angeles Tourism page. For those of you who don't know, my family plans to visit that area. It seems Disney restored Hollywood's El Capitan Theater, maybe they can do the same for ours. They run stage shows and movies there like it's an old picture palace.

Hi Gang, I'm just back from Disney World and have some news about the Loew's Kings as an INDOOR Theme Park!

The owner, NYC Economic Development Corporation, not the Flatbush Redevelopment Corp, will issue their Request for Proposal on the theater in either April or May. In the meantime, Brooklyn Borough President's Office has been asked to submit their recommendations for how RFP should read. I will be meeting with the BP's people this week to help draft their response.

Bruce1

What exactly do you mean by indoor theme park? Wasn't this supposed to be a performance venue?

The architects/decorative designers used various styles of architecture in creating the Loew's Kings and that is what I mean by the term: 'indoor theme park'. The 2 main design elements borrow liberally from the Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

It was a performance venue in the days of vaudeville, where the orchestra either rose from the pit or was on stage behind the performer. Thus, the terms: 'pit' and 'stage shows'. Under a plan by Save The Kings, it would return to it's glory days and present LIVE concerts and possibly a try out venue for upcoming Broadway productions.

Maybe one day they may tryout one of my shows (Although I have my doubts considering I'm newcomer)...Thanks Bruce One.

Did anyone watch 'That's Brooklyn' parts I and II on the Loew's Kings?

Bruce1 just wrote me that the main reason they may not be letting people into the theater is insurance. I apologize if I offended anybody on this page. However, the asbestos study has been completed, and that is apparently not a problem.

According to Bruce1 the city plans to receive requests for proposals in April. That is when the city will let in perspective developers. Right now, I hope they find somebody.

I thought that some of you would have watched the last two episodes of 'That's Brooklyn' that featured the Loew's Kings, but unfortunately nobody seems to have watched!

What can I say? Based on your postings on this board, I thought the shows would be of interest.

My organization is trying to Save The Kings, I hope that your interest will continue to grow.

Bruce1

Mine still will but I wasn't sure whether I could receive it on my computer. It does not have realtime player.

What would you all think of putting in a show about Brooklyn if and when we reopen this theater? I am the writer who is writing one. I also haven't heard a response from this page lately

Isn't there already a new play about Brooklyn?

Bruce1,

Is That's Brooklyn only on on Tuesdays? Will they repeat those shows? I'll happily pay postage and stock cost for a VHS tape yet, or better yet a DVD. If you know when/if they'll be repeated, I'll watch!

Dear Shade,
Thanks for your interest. I have no immediate plans to repeat those episodes of 'That's Brooklyn,' but you might catch them on manhattan neighborhood network, channel 56 on Wednesday nights at 7:30pm sometime in the near future. [www.mnn.org] I'll provide details ASAP.

At this point videos are not available, but thanks for your interest.

Bruce1, please provide those details when you get them. I know some others here in Manhattan who'd also like to see it. Thanks--

You should make them available in video, Bruce 1.

I know there is already a Broadway Show about Brooklyn. Mine has a different premise.

Has anybody seen this Sunday's NY Times? Take a look at the Real Estate Section and you'll find the cover story about a new developer in town! Among his projects is to build atop the old RKO Flushing with an apartment complex. Perhaps he would be interested in building a hotel/rental apartments with a revolving restaurant looking out on all of Brooklyn? If so, why doesn't he look at the Loew's Kings?

You'll also find an article about various developers buying up former bank buildings, built by some of our finest classical architects. They are not being destroyed, but lovingly restored -not as banks but as high end condos, restaurant/catering, the newest Balducci's and I know this will be hard to believe, but as a Union Square Theatre.

I've got a rather novel idea! Why not convert a magnificent movie palace into all of the above? The lobby could be rented out for private parties or for an art exhibition or as 'The Joe Franklin' memorabilia museum, [Joe loves the idea!] then building up from the store fronts, this can be additional retail space and then, a smart developer could use the air rights to create a hotel and condos and even a multiplex and capped with a restaurant. Best of all, I have a ruly novel idea, why not use the theater as a live theater?

Perhaps cinematreasure fans could write to Mr. Boymelgreen? He seems to have respect for the classic architecture and seems to find neighborhoods that need a boost. Check the article!!

Bruce1

That would be okay, just so long as the theater itself is not split. The hotel above the Palace Theater in Manhattan was built so that it does not touch the roof. What's this Boymelgreen's E-Mail? That would really be some help. Maybe we should also contact whoever built the hotel and see what they think.

I don't have the e-mail address, but the company name is: Leviev Boymelgreen--they may have an office in Manhattan, but you might also try 700 Pacific Street, Brooklyn NY.

One e-mail might not do the trick, but if all the people who read this site were to send an e-mail, maybe it could light the fire.

Flushing is a different situation than Flatbush. It already has several thriving hotels due to its proximity to LaGuardia Airport and Flushing's importance as a business center for the Asian community. Who's going to stay at a luxury hotel in Flatbush, which is comparatively in the middle of nowhere?

We really need someone who is interested in theaters. Maybe we should try some promoters who have money enough and are also interested in construction.

I just read the theater description above. Does full stage mean that it has elements like theatrical traps, and what we call in theater a "fly system"? That is a system where they can store flats and lower them from above.

The KINGS has a full fly system and large stage, though I do not have the statistics at hand. Likely there are or were several traps in the stage since that was usual construction back then. Even the MODJESKA, a neighborhood house here in Milwaukee had 20 traps!

That would mean they could hold Broadway Productions at the Kings.

A 1929 view of the Kings stage can be found towards the bottom of the page at this website http://www.gabesplayerpianos.org/html/Stanloew.html

Thanks beardbear;
That does look like a grand stage.

I saw the Ali-Frazier II and Ali-Foreman fights on closed-circuit in this theater. The crowds outside alone were huge, like the fights were actually being held there.

Is anyone on this page still interested in what's going on with the possible restoration of the Kings? Last I heard they may start tours in April for people who are interested in possibly restoring the theater.

Count me in darling!

To: Jim Rankin
Loew's Kings has two stage lifts, if that's what you mean by 'traps'. Here are some accurate dimensions:
Proscenium Height: 32 ft
Proscenium Opening: 60 feet wide
Stage Depth [From rear of orchestra pit] 32 feet
Fly Height: (to grid from state est.) 70 feet
Grand Lobby: (approx) 42' W x 70' D
Inner Lobby (approx) 32' W x 56' D
Main House/ Excludes Stage (approx) 152' W x 144' D
Rear Orchestra Foyer (approx) 136' W x 32' D
Shop Space (approx) shoe store 20' x 50'
Shop Space (approx) 3 store fronts 60 x 50' D

Building a box above the retail frontage can create additional selling space or components of a multiplex with access to the main theater's mezzanine. The square block footprint has an additional 30,000 sq. feet of retail which is available. The basement areas do include a basket-ball court once used by the ushers, but could be retrofit for two additonal screens or even more retail space (or Jazz Club or Comedy Club) Under the stage are a grouping of rehearsal space, screening rooms and backstage offers almost 30 dressing rooms, wardrobe and chorus facilities.

In effect, you could create at least a 10plex or a combination of theater and retail space without subdividing the auditorium.

To: Gustavelifting

These tours are not for the general public, but only for real estate developers, entrepreneurs and other billionaires.
Bruce1

Thanks, Bruce, for that excellent breakdown of the dimensions and physical nature of the wonderful KINGS. I wish I had the proximity and resources to it that you have.

“Traps” are actually small openings in a stage floor covered with doors that open downward instantly so as to cause the dropping of an actor through the floor onto cushions in the below stage space. This was a device often called for in classical plays as well as melodramas of later years. In more advanced theatres, multiple traps could be linked together to open as one, thus opening a large portion of the stage floor for some scenic effects. Perhaps the single best illustration of their use is in the Cary Grant mystery “Charade” where the antagonist is walking across a darkened stage in search of Mr. Grant who is below the stage in the wings putting his hand to the line of trip lines that will release the one appropriate to the one the man is standing on; Mr. Grant is shown estimating the man’s position on the numbered trap doors only by sound of his footsteps above. It is exciting and shows the physical usage of multiple traps in a large stage.

The ROXY and other large facilities not only had stage elevators as that wonderful photo in THE BEST REMAINING SEATS makes clear, but often several traps in each elevator sometimes along with a turntable the width of the stage! When Ben Hall dubbed such “miracles of levitation” he wasn’t far from wrong.

Stage shows lasted here only nine months, and were withdrawn on June 7th, 1930. The only "Wonder Theatre" with a shorter record was Loew's 175th Street, which ended stage shows after two months due to low attendance.

Thanks Everybody for all the info;

Bruce 1, I knew they were not for the general public, but people interested in restoration.

To: Jim Rankin
Thanks for the 'super information'. Having been on the stage and under the stage at the Loew's Kings many times, I never saw such 'traps' but interestingly at the Loew's 46th Street, still pretty much intact, but alas a furniture store in Brooklyn, there is a 'normal' trap door that opens up - ward! Only this one is not on the stage (stage is gone) but is actually in the manager's office. It was used by the manager to secretly exit the office with the day's receipts and go down to the basement, out the back door and straight to the bank!!

The ROXY, NY and Brooklyn Paramount's were designed by Rambusch and Company. A few years ago, the family came with me on a tour of the Kings. They offered to begin a training opportunity program for interns in the art of theatre restoration. As you can well imagine, all the contacts ++ all their enthusiasm, means nothing if we don't have the money guy!

Bruce1

To: Warren
Thanks for the information on the early demise of vaudeville at Loew's Kings, but how sure are you that it's accurate?

Loew's Metropolitan continued vaudeville until around 1935
Brooklyn Paramount kept it going until 1936.

Are you familiar with pit vs presentation shows? If not, 'pit' meant that they had the orchestra in the pit and 'presentation' had the orchestra on stage with acts in front.

So Bruce1 tell us what the Kings looked like when you were inside? How many years ago were you inside?

I tried to contact the firm of Rapp and Rapp, but they seem to be a computer firm now, and aren't returning my E-Mails. I figured they would be able to help me find some groups that are interested in retoring Rapp and Rapp Architecture.

By the way did you all know that Rapp and Rapp also designed the Brooklyn and New York Paramount Theaters? They also have many theaters on the National Register of Historic Place, and for their architecture yet!

Rapp and Rapp ceased to exist as an architectural firm in the 1950s, but much of their archives remain at the Theatre Historical Society in Elmhurst Illinois, 15 miles west of Chicago. Reach them through their web site: www.HistoricTheatres.org

I'm correct about the withdrawal of stage shows at the Kings after only nine months. One of the reasons was Depression conditions. Another was competition from the Flatbush & Kenmore Theatres, which were also presenting vaudeville. Also, the Kings proved too big for conventional vaudeville. With most of its 3,676 seats on the ground floor, performers complained of not being able to "reach" the audience. It was OK for spectacles, but they were too expensive to mount and transport from one Loew's theatre to another.

To: Robert R.
From: Bruce1
The last time I visited the Loew's Kings was about 5 months ago. At that time, nothing much had changed. Every so often, something manages to disappear. This time, I noticed a 1929 vintage - intercom no longer hung from the manager's office wall.

The City of NY had completed their asbestos study and found that that was NOT a problem and they had shored up the terracota facade. Above the stage house, the glass panes have suffered and it still allows the entry of pigeons. A few years ago, I was alarmed after seeing the damage caused by cascading rain water on the box seats. I was able to convince the Bklyn Borough Pres. Office to begin work on that roof within 3 weeks, instead of the planned 6 week wait. So now, it appears to keep the place dry. Of course there is no heat or fresh air, so the theater remains in a constant state of mildew/chill.

Maybe, I'm just in love with the place, but it looks no worse than the New Amsterdam before the Disney people went to work.

Your love of the grandiose KINGS is well placed, Bruce, and yes, it can be restored just as the NEW AMSTERDAM was as long as something of it remains to be a starting point in the restoration. All it takes is money, LOTS of money. Ironically, I fear that even if money is found for the essential structural and plaster repairs along with other physicals, it is the 3-story-high monumental draperies that will not be replacable, since no drapery makers of that caliber exist any longer, nor the firms such as E.L.Mansure Co. which made the 5-foot-long tassels and 4-foot-long fringe upon them. Such textile artistry was unique to the lavish interior of the KINGS which decorative draperies were intended to convey the opulence of a true king's palace! Such ornaments of the past are today sneered at as 'feminine' and of no material worth in the iconography of the 'now generation'. I guess I dream as you do of restoring this wonderful venue as the Jehovah's Witnesses did the STANLEY in N.J., but even such as they who do not have to pay property taxes, still did not attempt to return the original lavish, opulent designs of the original draperies due to the extreme costs involved. The KINGS may never appear again as it did in 1929, but then few things do! If you again come upon any of the original textiles remaining, I strongly suggest that you get permission to remove them (or significant pieces of them) so that you can preserve them in some dry place to have some remaining examples of things to restore, should some miracle arise and an 'angel' wants to spend the millions to do a genuine restoration. True restoration can only be done if samples remain to guide and direct that restoration. With such samples preserved, ANYTHING can be reproduced with enough time and money. I volunteer to come and help make up the drawings of those draperies should such funding come to be.

If we could find a group that's interested in the restoration of Rapp and Rapp Architecture then that would help to. They may be able to raise the money. Rapp and Rapp has not returned my E-Mails.

Gustavelifting, whoever you're emailing isn't Rapp & Rapp. Please see Jim Rankin's post from 3/8 above. The firm of Rapp & Rapp has not existed for decades so there isn't any way to contact them.

I tried getting in touch with the firm of Rapp and Rapp, but they never returned my E-Mails. I thought that maybe there would be some group that would be interested in restoring their architecture. The firm has since become a computer web firm.

Not the same Rapp & Rapp, my friend...I assure you.

Got to get in your face, Jim. Rapp & Rapp lasted well into the 60's. By this time the firm did all kinds of work...bank buildings, for instance. The odd theater job did still turn up...like that place in Detroit...what was it...originally very exotic...the Fisher.

You can't save them all...at least to function as 2,000 plus seat theaters. But, this was a great one. I was happy to hear that the plan to turn it into multiple cinemas fell apart. Hopefully a plan will materialize to bring it back to life. If a bunch of volunteers & community activists can save the place over in Jersey City, anything can happen!

Mason Rapp, who closed the firm, would be amazed to see so many of their theaters still around in 2005. He felt that movie palaces had become obsolete, and died just as preservation efforts in America were picking up steam.

Also of note...I don't know what Rapp & Rapp materials exist in Elmhurst, IL. But, the entire collection of original blueprints was donated to the Chicago Historical Society in the 80's. Ironically, Mason preserved the blueprints because he thought they would be worth money to the people tearing the old buildings down. He was a smart man, but he sure didn't see to the other side of that one!

Thanks Life...Maybe I should contact them.

Life's...;
In case you didn't read it before...There is an effort just Email thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

There are also some Rapp & Rapp blueprints, including those for the Kings, in the Billy Rose Theatre Collection at the Library of the Performing Arts in Lincoln Center, NYC.

I hope that library is online

Dear Warren and Gustav:
Sorry, but the only reference you will find at the Billy Rose Theatre Collection - at the LIbrary for the Performing Arts are the REFERENCE CARDS themselves! Everything else is long gone! Mr Big, the head man said to me, 'We have no idea what happened to all those blueprints.'

Therefore, if the Chicago Historical Society has blueprints of the Kings, they are indeed - one of a kind!!

And -- so it goes. On a happier note, the Brooklyn Paramount may get lucky. There is talk in LIU Long Island University Circles of a possible and that's in capital letters--movement to restore and reopen the Brooklyn Paramount--as a theatre!

While we're on the subject of Brooklyn, theatre fans might check out the magnificent Brooklyn Tech Theatre space which olds almost 4,000 seats and is in pristine condition. The Principal wants to see it used for outside productions, when not in use by the school.

The other night, I wandered into the Brooklyn Academy of Music and talked my way up to the dressing room area where they were preparing to shoot a scene from 'The Producers'. By luck, I met the right people and explained that the architects for BAM were Hertz and Talent, who also did the New Amsterdam. It seems that they were shooting a scene from 'The Producers' but would also be shooting at the St. James (Yesterday) so it's a movie about a play within a play that was based on a movie. Well, that's the kind of movie we should write about the Loew's Kings. It will not become a multiplex, but a live theater that might for a special run screen one movie to 1 big audience. No multiplex here!!

Bruce1

That's great. But, still, what about the Kings?

I hate to say it, but if, finally, we cannot bring back the glorious KINGS, then we would do well to bring back the equally glorious BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT. The photos of it in Ben Hall's BEST REMAINING SEATS reveal a wonderland of opulence, and typically, the sumptuous 'Bird of Paradise' house curtain will be among the most difficult and costly artifact to reproduce. We hate to trade off palaces, but if it must be, this is a fitting trade.

Did they open the King's for people to get proposals for redevelopment?

Well, why not try both. I'm game for the Paramount.

Do you think we would need a website like I did for the Kings?

The Brooklyn Paramount is larger and more sumptuous than the Kings, mainly because of its location in downtown Brooklyn, which was the equivalent of a major city in those days. The Brooklyn Paramount was also the first theatre built in the project that Loew's took over from Paramount and became known as the "Loew's Wonder Theatres." That's how Rapp & Rapp became architects of the Kings. They had already been scheduled for it by Paramount...The Brooklyn Paramount now seems to have an edge over the Kings in restoration to a theatre, since it's in better physical condition and better served by public transportation.

I know the guy who conducted the transaction...the word was the entire colletion...no exceptions...went to the Chicago Historical Society.

But, what the hell...I can ask him.

Who conducted what transaction? And do you mean Chicago Historical Society or Theatre Historical Society of America, which has its HQ near Chicago?

Folks,

This talk of sacrificing Kings Loew Theater for Brooklyn Paramount Theater is not acceptable. Because the Brooklyn Paramount is part of a university it has access to millions of dollars, so if the university wants to make it a theater again, they can. However,it is up to all of us who care about the Kings to save it. The idea that it is not cost effective to save the Kings is foolish. To build a new performing arts center would cost 3 or 4 times the amount it would take to restore the Kings and I doubt that anyone is going to build a more beautiful theater. Someone has to make a decision to create a non-profit organization to save the Kings and become incorporated. Once that is done, the organization can ask fortune 500 companies as well as the entertainment community to donate money to save the Kings. To encourage donations, the organization can make a list of corporate sponsors so that it will be worthwhile for companies and/or indivduals to donate money because they are getting free publicity. We, the readers cannot blame a theater owner for the decline of the Kings. The Kings belongs to the City of Brooklyn, so it is up to all of us, who care to save it. Let's stop all this talk and bein taking action. Once people realize we are serious about saving the Kings than other people will look at the Kings in a different light. Instead, of seeing the Kings as a burden to the City, they will see all the potential. If the Kings were restored it could be used for filming (commericals, movies and videos just like the grand Los Angeles Theater in LA,CA), conventions, plays, and even use it as a church or a museum (placing art and/or scuptures throughtout the theater). Be creative but whatever we do, let's stop all this talking and start taking some action to save the Kings!

Lance makes perfect sense! Bruce makes perfect sense, but from 1987 until the present, Bruce has tried everything and still nothing. Well, not exactly nothing. I have brought the Loew's Kings to the attention of Disney, Clear Channel, Ron Delsener Productions, Rambusch (the decorative design firm, who also did the Brooklyn Paramount), Evergreene, SFX--Sillerman, multi millionaire and showman who is a major investor in Bruce Ratner's new NETS arena, Marty Markowitz- who loves the idea and has always been a big supporter of the project, Joe Franklin - who wants to put his movie merorabilia and vaudeville museum in the lobby, Brooklyn Arts Council (BAC), Ben Vereen' who's mother was a char lady at the Kings, Sylvester Stallone, Henry Winkler and Streisand who were all ushers at the Kings, Arthur Tracy (The Street Singer) who performed here in vaudevill
and so so so many others. (Not to mention the biggest real estate developers including Ratner, Vornado, Grid Properties, the people who brought you Harlem U.S.A., Millennium Partners who opened the Sony Loews Lincoln Plaza complete with the facade of the Loew's Kings, David Rockwell who designed that and everything DISNEY. Just think, if I never get this accomplished, I had one hell of a good time, met some fascinating people and my buddy, Dorothy at 90 is STILL the manager of Loew's Kings!

So why don't we continue writing little memories and little hopes and forget Lance's BRILLIANT suggestion of actually doing something?

I don't think it's a matter of one theatre being "sacrificed" for another. It's just that the Paramount seems to have a better chance of being returned to theatrical use because of its physical condition and location. However, the Paramount does have to contend with its proximity to the Brooklyn Academy of Music, which dominates the downtown cultural scene and probably would not welcome competition.

The enormous community revival underway in Brooklyn makes it conceivable that the city's most populous borough can support several performance spaces in addition to BAM and Brooklyn College's Whitman Auditorium. We should not consider the redevelopment of the Kings & the Paramount as canceling each other out. Some creativity especially in targeting niche audiences is what called for, in addition of course, to financial support. Both of these splendid spaces can co-exist.

Perhaps when the restored Paradise in the Bronx re-opens, that will provide some guidelines, especially if it proves successful. And if it doesn't, that could spell the end for the return of the Brooklyn Paramount and Kings.

My uncle conducted the transaction I speak of...his name is CW Rapp. He is son of Mason Rapp, who closed Rapp & Rapp in the 60's.

The transaction took place in 1988. All blueprints (actually linen tracings) that were left at the time the office closed, and a collection of photographs, were donated to the Chicago Historical Society.

Brother Andrew Corsini, from THS, was allowed to make copies of the photographs before transfer. This is the only thing that resembles a Rapp & Rapp archive at THS in Elmhurst.

The only plans for a Brooklyn theater included in the donation were those of the Paramount. The fate of plans for the Kings is difficult to judge. A lot of materials were thrown out around 1930, when the office was slow. Basically, they saved only what they thought might generate more work. There was a flood at one point. Each time they moved, a thing or two was thrown away. Maybe plans for the Kings really are floating around New York somewhere...

The only blueprint of the Loew's Kings that I know to exist is in my possession. It was found in a carton of garbage, in the dumpster, out back behind the theater. That blueprint allowed the guys who did the recent asbestos/lead abatement study to understand the structure.

As to the recent comments by Life's too short, Warren, Astyanax, etc...I can only say that it's too bad that nobody is interested in the BRILLIANT suggestion made by Lance!!!!

"Let's stop all this talking and start taking some action to save the Kings!"

Many cities such as Milwaukee microfilmed most old blueprints before discarding them and sent the films to rented archives deep in the empty salt mines out west; did New York do something similar? It may be necessary to cultivate a 'friend' in the city's building inspection department to learn what may be confidential. Conceiveably, one could then pay to have a film returned and duplicated or have new prints made off of the film.

As Bruce points out from the print he acquired, it IS possible to redraw the prints from what remains and from photos, but is IS quite expensive!

All I can say is that we've got some pretty clever people coming up with ideas and historical stuff on this message board! Maybe if somebody would actually attempt to do, what THEY suggest, it might prove fruitful.

I don't know anybody at the Building's Department, (as the song goes) 'How about you?' If there were committees and ideas were actually discussed and strategies planned, possibly we could be successful.

Yesterday, on one of my fact finding missions, I found much underused land (surrounding Loew's Kings) is being bought up by the same people. There's even a large tract that some folks told me will be a warehouse. But other folks told me that their houses, (that are adjacent to the space) are getting offers to 'sell' so that a new shopping mall can be built. QUESTION: Why build warehouse with a shopping center next door? ANSWER: Because the developer plans to build a bigger mall!!

If that's the case, then those same developers might not be planning to bid on the King's site, in order to turn it into a shopping mall. But, regulars here will remember that I talked about Sear's Flatbush, built on land owned by a multibillion dollar developer...well, that same developer with the cooperation of K-Mart has taken a controlling share of Sears. As Artie Johnson on Laugh-In used to say, 'Very Interesting!!' (Don't forget Sears is right behind the Loew's Kings)

Over the past 18 years, I have seen similar developments in the area. Now things seem to be heating up again. Maybe the time is finally right??

Timeline:
White Flight - In the 70's
The Theater closed in 1979
Afro American and Caribbean Community is vital to the economic growth of area
No theater serves the area
Nearby apartment houses have gone coop and condo
National chain stores have surrounded the theater
(originally, the theater came before the shopping district)
neighborhood has very good police protection and is now considered safe IN DAYTIME
(remember Times Square, before Disney?)
NYC will hold issue their RFP -April or May.

What we need is to do is call a meeting, divide into committees and actually do something!

You are on the money Bruce. Taking action is always the tough part...especially when you are unfamiliar with what is required.

"Let's Try to remember, the days in September" (September 7th, 1929- to be exact) when the Loew's Kings opened their doors.. 'and follow..' Wasn't that a song??? It's a long, long time.... from May to September and the days grow short, till we reach September. (NYC EDC will issue their RFP in April-May)

"The days dwindle down to a precious few, September, November.." .Just remember, it's not over till the fat lady sings!!

The theater opened on September 7th, but then soon enough, came 'Black Friday.' Not the movie, starring Boris Karloff, but the day the Stock Market crashed. For all you old movie buffs, 'Those were the good old days.' That was Ray Walston in 'Damn Yankees' It starred Gweyn Verdon, the dancer who had a friend named Viola Hoolihan. Vi started as a dancer working for the Arthur and Kathryn Murray Dance Studios at the corner of Church & Flatbush. Later, she auditioned for Billy Rose and also the Chester Hale Dancers (who worked the LOEW'S KINGS!) Viola chose the glitter of Broadway to the wilds of Brooklyn. Today, she lives to talk about it. How do I know??? Because she's a close friend of my wife's mother, that's why!

If our message board members want to do something to Save The Kings, here's what we CAN do.

Come up with a publicity campaign for select movies that played the Loew's Kings. Pick those that have a relevance to reopening this cathedral of the ornate.

For instance, former usherette Barbra Streisand, along with Robert Redford in 'The Way We Were'
Let's resurrect the award winning campaign of Loew's Kings Manager, Dorothy Solomon Panzica's: To Clean Up The Neighborhood and return it to 'The Way We Were'

Or how about, 'The Lords of Flatbush' which starred not one but TWO former Loew's Kings ushers, Henry WInkler (The Fonz) and Sylvester Stallone.

Let's not forget Eili Wallach, who narrated Christian Blackwood's film: 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' but was also a member of the Flatbush Boys Club, just a few blocks from the Loew's Kings! From what I hear, when he was asked for a contribution to the Flatbush Boy's Club, Mr. Wallach sent an autographed picture!

From what I hear, Barbra Streisand isn't making many public appearances these days. She made 'Funny Girl' - the life story of Fanny Bryce, who also walked the boards at Loew's Kings. I have heard that Babs secretly donates $50,000 a year to the Erasmus High School Alumni Fund. She has also talked about her roots at Loew's Kings on her TV specials and concert tours. But, from what I hear, she's gained a lot of weight. Maybe our campaign could say, 'It's not over until the fat lady sings!'

What movies played the Kings? ["What's playing at the Roxy? I'll tell you what's playing at the Roxy.. what's in the Daily News, I'll tell you what's in the Daily News..." That's from 'Guys & Dolls' and that's the 2005 production being mounted on the great stage at Brooklyn Tech next month!!
By the way, Rambusch, the decorative design firm created detail for the Roxy AND Loew's Kings.

What if we threw a film festival of all the movies that played the Kings that could play a part or take a roll in creating The Kings County Center For The Performing Arts?

Earlier, I mentioned Boris Karloff. Does anyone remember that in 1958, he starred as Captain Hook in the Broadway revival of 'Peter Pan.' At that time, Zacherley, TV's Cool Ghoul asked Mr Karloff, 'Do you mind that we kid your old movies?' Karloff replied, 'No, you're keeping me alive.'

But if you want a newer movie, how about 'Neverland' a Bob & Harvey Weinstein production (the boys from Brooklyn) That's the story of J.M. Barry, author of Peter Pan. Wait a minute! Didn't I talk about Karloff appearing as Captain Hook in 'Peter Pan'? Yes, I do, indeed I do, and in the words of Al Jolson, (The Jazz Singer) "You aint heard nothin yet!" That was the first silent movie musical, but Gweyn Verdon's husband was Bob Fosse and they made his life into a movie: 'All That Jazz.'

('Silent Movie' wasn't that a Mel Brooks film? Speaking of Mel Brooks, another boy from Brooklyn, he's now busy making 'The Producers' in Brooklyn! But then again, Woody Allen and Neil Simon are both from Brookyn! Didn't Woody make some of his films in Brooklyn? Didn't he make a movie about a movie theater?

If Neil Simon wasn't born in Brooklyn. If Neil Simon hadn't lived in Brooklyn, he wouldn't have written: 'Brighton Beach Memoirs' and let's not forget Arthur Schwartz (DJ Jonathan Schwartz's father) He wrote, 'Dancing In The Dark' (there's a scene in the Fred Astaire film that takes place in a park. Could Arthur Scwhartz have been thinking of The Prospect Park? He also wrote, 'That's Entertainment' and lived in Flatbush!!!

'Good night Mrs. Calabash, where ever you are.' That was Jimmy Durante and HE appeared LIVE on stage at the Loew's Kings. Does anybody remember hearing, 'Channel 7, NY. Next 'Shock Theater'? Well, that starred TV's Cool Ghoul, Zacherley! The grand old boy had and STILL HAS a tag line: 'Good Night, whatever you are!!'"

Did I mention that in the mid 70's Zacherley appeared LIVE on stage at the Loew's Kings?? Well, if I didn't mention it, he did! Besides, wouldn't it be simply grand if the Loew's Kings was beautifully restored and reopened as 'The Kings County Center For The Performing Arts?' Even Zacherley, (a personal friend) prefers that to Shock Theater." A few years ago, I met Karloff's daughter, Sarah and asked: 'What do you think of all the remakes?' She replied, 'If it's not broke, don't fix it."

I asked, 'Do you go to see monster movies?' She replied, 'No, I'm too scared!' BORIS KARLOFF"S DAUGHTER is afraid of monster movies? Are you afraid to help Save The Kings??

So if you want to talk about 'That's Entertainment,' tune in 'That's Brooklyn'
BCAT-Tuesday 11 AM and 7 PM Time Warner-Ch. 56/Cablevision - Ch. 69
MNN-Wednesdays at 7:30 PM on Time Warner -Channel 56
QPTV-Wednesdays at 9:00 PM on Time Warner -Channel 35
And beginning April 5th, every Tuesday night at 7:30 throughout Nassau County on Cablevision.

As a theatrical type person I am willing to put myself behind both the Paramount and Kings projects. The more the theaters, the better the Brooklyn. Not that Brooklyn is bad, heck, Coney Island is a nice place. However, it could still use some tweeking to get it back to its former, Dodger Days, glory. Keep in mind that I am a former Brooklynite and still love the place. This will help

I find the different types of history each theater has to be interesting. For the Paramount it was more rock 'n' roll rebellion. For the Kings, it was more stars before they were stars. Alan Freed held his famous and raucus concerts at the Paramount, and they were so loved they became sort of a thing of folklore. However, the Kings silently backed people and assisted them in their Hollywood Glory as, well, their first break into show business. With their separate histories, they made a dent in the world of show business.

I would also like to add that while we should shoot for a 100% restoration, any restorative effort is good. A 50% restoration is more than a 0% restoration. We may only be able to reach 70-90% on the Kings, but its better than nothing.

For those who wish that Tony Orlando was still popular, they too, should reach for the stars, that's why I'd suggest that you tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree!

In the lobby of Loew's Kings, you'll find a giant redwood forest of fluted walnut columns with Corinthian tops that reach toward the mosaic sky.

Bruce 1;
I have been also speaking with the people on the Brooklyn Paramount Page. What would you say to tying the restoration of the Kings and the Paramount?

Obviously, my comments here have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody seems willing to do anything other than write messages, but when it comes to doing anything. That's another story.

Bruce is right. If I were in NYC and had free time, I would step up. People can accomplish amazing things if they band together, settle on a goal, and keep trying.

Why don't you take the first step: set a time and place for an initial planning meeting?

I heard on a major news network that Brooklyn is one of the next hot spots in the nation for a real estate boom, along with Downtown Detroit near the water. A lot of people are being pushed out of Manhattan and moving to Brooklyn which is a lot cheaper and you get more for your money.brucec

First of all, thank you Life's too short and BruceC. And just for the record, the same developers who are responsible for all the redevelopment of Downtown Brooklyn have been buying up the land around the Loew's Kings!! I know this for a fact!!!

Psstt! You want to buy a theater? The present owner, the NYC Economic Development Corp. will put the theater up on RFP (Request for Proposal) in April or May.

But then, that's exactly what happened with the Detroit Fox, the Chicago and the St. Louis FOX. So, to quote from the old movie: 'It Happened In Brooklyn' with Jimmy Durante and Frank Sinatra who sing: "It Comes Straight From The Heart' and the Loew's Kings is the Heart of Brooklyn!!

I read earlier about Dorothy Solomon and that she's still alive. I'd love to be able to contact her. For most of my early life, for good or for bad, I was known as "Danny Cohen's son." My dad was the manager of the Loew's Kings right before Dorothy. He was there when the Tisch's visited upon their takeover of Loew's and based on how well that theatre presented and was managed he was promoted to headquarters at 1540 Broadway. I spent lot's of PM's there after my day at Erasmus. In 1959 I worked behind the candy stand. Anyway I just happened upon this site recently and would like to contribute in any way I can to the revitalization efforts.

To: Iving Cohen
Of course, Dorothy remembers your dad. She'll be more than happy to talk with you, but let's first exchange e-mail addresses and then you can have Dorothy's #.

That real estate boom could be a selling point for the idea. However, you must convice them that this is worth keeping and not demolishing. You don't want the Kings to go the way of Ebbet's Field.

I thought of a way that may make the Kings savable. We tell the people who want to own it of its historical value. Rapp and Rapp, for example, have buildings that are national landmarks because of their architecture. Then again, there are those world famous ushers who achieved Hollywood greatness and stars on the Walk of Fame after leaving the theater. Does anyone out there know of any gangsters, historical politicians, and famous soldiers who visited? They may also be a selling point.

Hey Gus, if this was open...I'd go inside; it wouldn't depend on what's playing.

Good Saps, but that wasn't about what was playing but the history of the theater. If it were open, I think you should go in.

Here is the original press release from when they were going to carve this up as a Magic Johnson Cinema.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/99a/pr101-99.html

The aptly named Loews Kings was the LOEWS of LOEWS. Period.

For all those who may have missed my message of March 23rd, I am repeating my words:

"Obviously, my comments here have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody seems willing to do anything other than write messages, but when it comes to doing anything. That's another story."


posted by Bruce1 on Mar 23, 2005 at 8:43am

Bruce, dear fellow, it is of no use scolding people for not doing more than talking, unless you yourself are willing and able to take the lead. Here is how you start:
1) Set up a place for interested nearby people can meet at little or no expense to themselves, and give date, time, place and something of a skimpy agenda. If you can show "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" to start the meeting, that might get all in the mood. DO NOT call the media; it is too early to embarrass any who are camera shy. Likewise, do not demand anyone sign up on a roster for future meetings or the like at the first meeting; that can scare some timid souls off. Meerely state the details for the next meeting and that you will be looking for some commitments after that meeting to be in writing.

2) A third meeing will then likely draw only committed souls with whom you can then form a sound, legal not-for-profit organization, select a name, have an attorney look over your articles of incorporation and a constitution and by-laws which will enable people to see your seriousness of purpose (you should draft a Mission Statement at this or the following meeting also), and suggest a slate of Officers to be discusses and voted at the fifth meeting.

3) Most people have very little time, so make as few demands upon their time outside of the meetings as possible, or you will have good will sorts who start drifting away. Be ready for the fact of life that in any group there are a core few who do 90% of the work, and scolding the others will only reduce your base of contributors.

You say you hate pushing and pulling others along, and also hate having someone less competent than you be voted into authority over you? Then make yourself a one man show by offering your services as Funds Rasiser or Consultant in the Restoration of the Kings. I wish I could say that you will have an easy road of it, but reality and history say otherwise, so be sure of why you are into it, and just how much time you can take from home and job to accomplish it. In any case, BEST WISHES from one too far away to help.

Dear Jim:
Thank you for the advice. I'm only sorry that you are too far away to help!

As I explained in my last few messages, billionaire real estate developers have been and are still buying up the property surrounding Loew's Kings and the NYC Economic Development Corp will be issuing an RFP (Request For Proposal) in April or May, 2005. The Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is a strong advocate for the restoration of the Kings and for creating the Kings County Center For The Performing Arts.

At this point, it would have been nice to form a committee, etc. But I recognize that billionaires have a lot more say in the matter. If you read back on my comments regarding Sears Flatbush; the ABC TV (owned by Disney) and TV shows like 'Extreme Make- Over: Home Edition (sponsored by Sears); History Channel's 'Make Over A Movie Palace' (owned by Disney) that was advertised on this web site and Disney's long term partnership with Clear Channel Entertainment--starting with their failed bid for the Radio City Music Hall but eventually the two giants made their moves on Times Square. Disney took the New Amsterdam and Clear Channel took over The Ford Center for The Performing Arts; Disney celebrating 'Radio Disney' at Clear Channel Theaters around the USA. and Disney's regional LIVE entertainment --It is plain to see that these guys may have an interest in the Kings. As you also know, I have gotten to big time brass at those companies and pushed the idea!

So, let's hope for the best. In the meantime, I won't quit!
Bruce1

Dear Jim:
Thank you for the advice. I'm only sorry that you are too far away to help!

As I explained in my last few messages, the billionaire real estate developers have been and are still buying up much of the property surrounding Loew's Kings and the NYC Economic Development Corp will be issuing an RFP (Request For Proposal) in April or May, 2005. The Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is a strong advocate for the restoration of the Kings and for creating the Kings County Center For The Performing Arts.


At this point, it would have been nice to form a committee, etc. But I recognize that billionaires have a lot more say in the matter. If you read back on my comments regarding Sears Flatbush; the ABC TV (owned by Disney) and TV shows like 'Extreme Make- Over: Home Edition (sponsored by Sears); History Channel's 'Make Over A Movie Palace' (owned by Disney) that was advertised on this web site and Disney's long term partnership with Clear Channel Entertainment--starting with their failed bid for the Radio City Music Hall but eventually the two giants made their moves on Times Square. Disney took the New Amsterdam and Clear Channel took over The Ford Center for The Performing Arts; Disney celebrating 'Radio Disney' at Clear Channel Theaters around the USA. and Disney's regional LIVE entertainment --It is plain to see that these guys may have an interest in the Kings. As you also know, I have gotten to big time brass at those companies and pushed the idea!

So, let's hope for the best. In the meantime, I won't quit!
Bruce1

Jim Rankin, Bruce 1, et all, when do we start? I am ready, are you?

Dear Theaterat:
Here's my e-mail, let's get together!

thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

Bruce 1. I currently wrote to the Loews Jersey asking the process that they used to bring their theater back to life. I also plan to speak to a local community leader in Bay Ridge for some advice. By what I see on this entry alone, there seems to be much interest on this grand old theater that has stood like a sleeping giant for more than 25 years. I am sure that something is going on. To let it be destroyed will be tantamount to the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn!A jpurney of a thousand miles starts with a single step.Hopefully that single step will start soon.

Well, then let's get going. You may want to try and get a corporation's cooperation.

Bruce1 I'm in.

Dear Theaterat,
Thanks for the interest. If you want to get together, just let me know!
Bruce1

Hey, what about getting together with me? I'm basically the one that suggested someone on this page join the group.

Bruce 1 and Gustavelifting....Lets see what the reply from the Jersey theater is. If we can get enough people interested in this( this sight is a great place to start)Probably we can all meet locally in Brooklyn on the chosen day and kick some ideas around. It may lead to something or it may not. Anyway, we can say we tried.I guess there is always hope. I am somewhat busy with scheduling events and family matters for the next few weeks, but I do intend to look into this matter further.

Theaterat and Gustav,
I'm not leaving anyone out, just a bit 'down' over the lack of people who are actually motivated.

Aren't there already groups that have been working on this for the past decades? What are they up to?

that's the one we're talking about. Wanna join?

Bruce, Gustave, Saps....Does anybody know if the Kings has Landmark status? This may not re open the Kings( at the moment) but at least it will save it from any "renovations" in the future.The Landmark and Preservation Society is an elite group that uses the rather demeaning term "outerboros" to describe neighborhoods out of Manhattan, but it is worth a try.

I caught "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" at the Donnell Library on Jan. 29, 2004. It is worth seeing.

Too bad about this theatre. Marty Markowitz, the Brooklyn Borough President, doesn't have any real power, but is awful energetic and is passionate about everything Brooklyn.

My beef is how can Loew's or any other profit-making company just abandon these buildings. Aren't they responsible for the upkeep? They can essentially just walk away from a building and leave it to rot or leave it to the taxpayers to figure out how to maintain it/demolish it?

Didn't Paul Allen restore one of these picture palaces in Portland or Seattle? What is needed is a Brooklyn version of Paul Allen.

The former Loews Valencia theater in Queens has landmark status even though it is a church. If you have the time you can try the New York Landmarks and Preservation Society at NYC Landmarks and Preservation Society. org. Be prepared to do a LOT of Link Surfing!

Yes, Paul Allen restored the 1963 vintage Seattle Cinerama Theatre. A full restoration of the Kings would cost much more than the cost of the Seattle Cinerama, when your dealing with the type of theatre.
I'm a for a full restoration of the theatre. I'm here in Manhattan.

"hardbop" says: "My beef is how can Loew's or any other profit-making company just abandon these buildings. Aren't they responsible for the upkeep? They can essentially just walk away from a building and leave it to rot or leave it to the taxpayers to figure out how to maintain it/demolish it?" Sad to say, what Loews did is perfectly legal in all the states, since the presumption of law is that if a property owner stops paying taxes, the state has the right to seize control of the property and sell it to offset the expense of the property to the public. Of course, that idea worked in rural farm society where land was sold, but in urban society, it is mostly the improvements (buildings) that are sold -- or as in the case of the KINGS -- they remain unsold. The owner gets the advantage of not being taxed on the property if the municipality seizes it, and yes, he can then just walk away. The municipality does usually place a lein upon the deed, and expects to recoup its losses both through a sale as well as anything that might come in via a lein. The trouble is, of course, that most potential buyers of so large a parcel and structure don't want either the lein or the cost of clearing the land --a very expensive proposition, especially with today's statutes regarding 'brown fields' cleanup responsibilities, so the land/improvements remain unsold and they become a burden to the city. Loews was not alone; millions of business use this tactic to divest themselves of something they cannot profitably sell, and the taxpayer is left with the burden. This is part of what some call 'Free Enterprise' which basically means that you are more 'Free' if you are rich like Loews. If you are a poorer individual, then don't expect such a benefit, since they city will then just come after you in court for back taxes, and then seize anything else you own to pay them!

The big money people have figured out a way to keep their other interests from being involved in land and property tax disputes by establishing blind corporations for their real estate. e.g. XXX Anywhere St. Corp., a company which would only exist for a specific address and the building(s) thereon. If it eventually proves to be a liability, they then can just walk away from it and their other assets cannot be touched. (and the corporation is dissolved, leaving them free to establish yet a new dummy company when they start another venture). Guess who picks up the tab for that every time.

Sam e.... Could it be US.. harbworking tax payers?

Unfortunately Jim, Loew's Corporation did not abandon the Loew's Kings, they sold it to a smaller theater operator who let it run into the ground and finally slip into the hands of the New York City Economic Development Corp.

Loews Corp is no longer owns theaters. They are no longer in the theater business. They have investments in many different field. When Sony Loews took over the theaters, it stopped using the apostrophe! So it was no longer Loew's, but LOEWS and it's now known as SONY LOEWS.

SONY LOEWS took over Cineplex Odeon and so it goes!

Im confused about the above post, I don't recall anyone but Loew's running the King's?

I think that the correct address for this theater is:

1027 Flatbush Avenue Brooklyn New York 11226

Block & Lot #: 05132 - 0018
Building Class: Theatre, Art Type More Than 400 Seats (J2)
School District: 17 map/schools
City Council District: 40
Police Precinct: 70 (Crime Statistics)
Political Contributions: search
BUILDING CHARACTERISTICS
Zoning C4-2
Building Size (F x D): 62.00ft x 268.42ft
Lot Size (F x D): 126.25ft x 291.33ft
Building Height: 21
Total Gross Area of Building:
Year Built: 1929
Historic District?: No
Corner Lot?: No
Has Garage?: No
Number of Floors: 5
# Units: -
FAR as built: 0.81
Allowable FAR: 3.40

TAX INFORMATION
Estimate 2005/2006 Taxes (est.): $0
Tax Billing Address:
Housing Preservation & Developement
Fl 7
100 Gold St
New York Ny 10038
Tax Class: 4
Tax Rate: 11.58%
Total Assessed Value: x $0
Annual Property Tax (est.): = $0
Quarterly Property Tax (est.): = $0
Monthly Property Tax (est.): = $0

MARKET VALUE1 HISTORY
Jun 01, 2005 $1,390,000
May 01, 2004 $1,390,000
Apr 01, 2003 $1,386,000
Mar 01, 2002 $1,320,000
Feb 01, 2001 $1,320,000
1 Market value obtain from the NYC Department of Finance

Now known as Loews Cineplex. See link: http://www.enjoytheshow.com/

This theater is closed. Maybe your thinking of the Loew's Kings Plaza 6 located in the Kings Plaza Mall.

Lostmemory, it seems that SAPS is stating the company name and not the name of the theater itself.

Now I understand. Thanks Gustavelifting. I'm thinking of shortening my name to just Lost. :)

Your welcome

I was shocked when I saw this! After a little detective work, the theater in question IS the Loews at Kings Plaza.

Theaterat;
I hate to tell you but you're wrong. The theater we are talking about here was constructed in 1929. Kings Plaza was constructed in the late 1960s. I was at the original theater in Kings Plaza, and, while it has a Loews now, it had a Century's when it was first built. The theater in question is located far from Jamaica Bay in the neighborhood of Flatbush. We are not talking about a presently operating Loews in Brooklyn, but one that has been dark, or closed since 1974. The theater we are talking about, if memory serves me correct, is at the intersection of Flatbush and Tilden Avenues, not Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U. It was never multiplexed either, and the one in Kings Plaza is a multiplex.

Gustav-you're right, except for the last picture show! The year was 1979 and not 1974.

The Century Kings Plaza opened in 1970. This opening, unfortunately, must have contributed a few years later to the demolition of the beautiful Century Marine Theater a few blocks away. The Marine was on Flatbush off Kings H'Way. I hope the Loew's Kings doesn't join the Marine and remains standing!

Gustavelifting...What I am talking about is the Cineplex mentioned by Saps. I know it was not the Kings, but when I checked the website, that pretty much confirmed it. And R>H...Bo you remember the Century Brook that was on Flatlands and Flatbush?This beautiful art deco theater was half a block away from the Marine.

There was a time when I was asked to serve on jury duty. It seems that someone slipped on a wet floor at Century's Kings Plaza. The lawyers wanted to know, 'Was there was any reason I couldn't serve? So, I explained that I was nuts about the classic theaters and was trying to Save the Loew's Kings. Well, that was enough to get me out of serving on the case.

Good for you Bruce I. Good for you! I once got out of jury duty, but for a different reason, but it was a "slip and fall" case. It did not happen in a theater, but that is another story.

Theaterat - I spent a lot of time in the Brook. I felt very bad that day in 1984 when I watched the seats being tossed into the back of a truck. I spent even more time in the Nostrand, yet another lost Century theater from the old neighborhood. Both buildings are still standing, but not functioning the way we'd like them to be.

Guys, I am going to get on your case. Stop making comments on this web site, and start doing something! Put a name on your organization, set a meeting time and don't quit. If you are consistent in your effort, you will achieve progress. Are you afraid of failure? Failure is the best teacher. Don't believe you can do it? Anyone can accomplish their goals if they keep trying. I firmly believe that buildings like this can once again become centers of the community. There is no doubt that you can create a viable organization and generate enthusiasm! Bruce...you seem to be the ringleader here. Set up a regular meeting at a regular location, and go. Even if you are the only one attending, it is a start. I play league basketball on Tuesdays. Once in a while we are short-handed at the beginning of an early game, because of work schedules. We don't forfeit the game when we have to play five on four...we go out there and play our guts out. You are short-handed right now. Go and play your guts out!

To: Life's too short
I have been the only attendee for quite a while and that hasn't stopped me yet. Besides, when I have asked for people interested in forming a group, I get no response. Then if I something looks like a response, nobody gets specific. A few people have made suggestions, but even for them, they don't seem to be available (time or distance) for a meeting.

But even if nobody wants to meet, that doesn't mean someone can't do something on their own. If somebody has a way of getting this theater back in business. i.e. Contact a theater operator & tell them about the NYC Economic Development Corp's Request For Proposal that will be issued this or next month. Not one person has actually reported any concrete move they have made.

Life---I have been trying to save this theater since 1987 and if you're a regular reader of this message board, you can see what I have tried to accomplish. Even when I announced that my TV show would feature the Kings on specific times and channels throughout the metro area, not one person watched it. Not one person responded!

But in the meantime, I will keep trying.

What do you all think? Should there be another documentary about the Kings? I do video documentaries as a sideline to my duties as a student. I think it would make a great subject for another documentary.

Gustave, you have an excellent idea; a new documentary is just what the doctor ordered! Of course, it would have to be more than a camera tour of the place today. Only true visionaries will see what can be done with all that ruin. Likely the Theatre Historical Soc. would allow you to buy opening day photos from them which you could pan and zoom into to create a sort of tour at its opening. A few shots of today inserted next to them would show what was and could be again. An interview with Bruce might instill the spirit that is needed, and an appropriate city official (one NOT running for election) interviewed who believes in the structure's potential to Brooklyn, would be good to include. While there are theatre historians who could comment on its historical position vis-a-vis other movie palaces, that might only interest historians, but your purpose would be to produce a promotional for today, to interest potential buyers/users. If you know of local groups that need a performing space, you might interview them. If someone at your school is good at making simple models, perhaps you can persuade him to make up some of areas of the theatre adapted to new uses (but preferably in a quasi theatrical vein -- we don't want another gymnasium a la the Brooklyn Paramount). You would film that model, and perhaps computer animate some people on stage, or the like.

We who love theatres tend to be very visual naturally; money men tend not to be = you have to show them exactly what you mean. Maybe you and Bruce can be the first to meet about this, and maybe invite the person writing up the RFP to be issued to see what could go into such a documentary. Would the local PBS stations be interested in showing such? Maybe wise to ask them about it in advance. And the local chamber of commerce or the Flatbush Business Advancement Association would be willing to help and give advice -- maybe even donations to the documentary (now don't you wish you had incorporated?!) I know it is easy for me to talk from a thousand miles away, but I believe that there is some merit to my suggestions. Best Wishes to you all in any case.

Thanks Jim;
I am considering it for either now or in the near future.

Dear Jim,
I have already done at least 6 half hour episodes about the Loew's Kings. They have been shown throughout Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and Nassau County, Long Island.

In those shows, I have toured the interior of the theater, interviewed restoration specialists: (ornate plaster and decorative painting), former patrons and the the theater's manager, candy matron, an usher from the 70's and two ushers from the 1930's!

At this time, the building's owner: NYC is not allowing anyone access inside.

Your efforts listed here are impressive, Bruce, and I am sure that all are convinced of your dedication and earnestness. I did not know that your work was so extensive, but unless I somehow missed it in the wealth of comments previously, you did not enumerate your shows, nor did you state where one could buy a video of one or all of them. Do you think that if you made them available that it might spur more people to think about the great KINGS? If your station does not object, perhaps you could dup DVDs of them on an individual request basis for only the cost of materials and shipping. I know that as an out-of-towner this would be the only way I could see them. It is a shame that so much work should sit on some shelf at the station with perhaps little chance of ever being seen again. Don't you think they would make good promotional tools for the theatre? If so, I call upon you to make them available.

Bruce 1;
It may be a good idea for you to make them available to the general public. You can also make them into one giant video. A little idea, celebrities go a long way, one should emphasize on the stars that started there. Right now my little hobby is one on the 64-65 World's Fair, and I'm hopeful to get stars from the past on it. In other words, vintage footage of stars. I know you work in television, and you would have a better idea of what to do. I just figured I would make a suggestion. When I got my television degree it was said that stars sell, and you need something that sells to get the idea across.

Gustevelifting, Bruce 1, andJim Rankin.....Lets try to find a list of prominent stars who came from Brooklyn it should not be too hard and inform them on the interest that seems to be growing on the Kings.If stars do sell, what can be a better way to get the idea across that a group that cares wants to preserve a bit of theater and Brooklyn history?Hard to believe that the 4th largest city in America has less than 12 operating theaters with the Fortway about to close soon.

Theaterat has a good idea, BUT it must FOLLOW, not preceed, the forming of a not-for-profit corporation that is legally able to collect funds towards the publicity and restoration of the KINGS. Any celebrity will have their mail screened by a service looking for any type of handouts (they reportedly get dozens of such each day) so they will never see the letter unless it (1) is on the letterhead of a registered 501c3 (tax exempt) entity; and (2) it has some details of their association with the KINGS along with some photo of them there that will jog their memories. You are appealing to two points: (1) Their interest, one presumes, in their own histories, and (2) in Historic Preservaton of a theatre. It may not be wise to include photos of its present condition, since many could not imagine it ever returning from its present state. Any such solicitation of their interest must not look juvenile or amateurish, but neither should it look glossy as from a professional funds raiser.

While a letter *may* get through to them, don't count on it for too much. I remember back in the early 80s when the St. Louis FOX was planning restoration and they wrote to Bob Hope who had appeared there, and he eventually wrote back without a check, that he thinks he still has a trunk there, and he wishes them well on their efforts, but regrets that all his funds are tied up for the foreseeable future. When he died, his estate was reportedly worth almost a half billion dollars, so I doubt it was a shortage of funds in his case. Remember the old saying of the rich: 'You don't stay rich by spending too much money.' You could offer them a plaque on the wall or suchlike, but they already have all the fame they need, so make this a price-point offer, not a guarantee. You might say, while any amount over $100 is deeply appreciated, your generosity will be better memorialized by a bronze plaque for any donation in excess of $10,000. In this way you make it clear that a $20 'pat-on-the-head-and-go-away' donation is not encouraged. To get their name behind it and a larger donation, you will have to enclose photos of it as it was, a detailed plan to restore it, a letter from the city showing both their ownership and their support for its restoration (enclose the RFP?). Tell them that you are NOT asking for their time, only a brief voice over that can be recorded at or near their home, to be broadcast behind a photo of them. Any live action theatre's management in your area will have a directory sold only to them with the current star's home address or that of their agent. Remember, that going through their agent may not help, since the agent is in the business of sniffing out any PROFITABLE enterprise for them (and for the agent's 10%!), so it is best to go to them directly if possible. If I receive your letterhead in the mail with your 501c3 registration on it, as well as any local and state registrations required, I will know that a legitimate group exists, and will be willing to write up a solicitation letter for you. There is not much more I can do from a thousand miles away. Best Wishes.

I have to commend you Bruce1 for all the dedication to the Loew's Kings. I am sorry you are not getting the support I think you deserve.Is it because Brooklyn lives in the shadow of Manhattan? Of all the 30 theatres I toured in New York City a few years ago Loew's Kings by far was my favorite. Even in its current state of faded elegance it took my breath away.Maybe someone with a little influence could get Turner Classic Movies to due a series on historic movie palaces and include the Kings, so it would get the exposure it deserves.brucec

http://www.disassociate.com/lost_big_thumb03.html

Some interesting photos of the movie palaces of Brooklyn including the Kings.

Is the Loews Pitkin in there as well? It's not labeled but it look like it...

Bruce 1;
I just reread an E-Mail I received in March. I don't know why I didn't mention it before, but I recently thought it may help. These groups are interested in restoration of old structures;

http://www.histpreserv.com/1/
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/lpc/html/grant/home.html
http://salwen.com/synch.html
http://www.preserve.org/

C Connolly...Interesting group of former theaters in web entry. Enjoyed seeing them. Maybe someday{when I figure out how to use my digital camera) I'll post mine. Thanks

It appears that I gave you an undeserved tongue lashing, Bruce.

I did not read all of Jim Rankin's message about creating a 501c3. But, that seems like an good step to take. Why not do this? I have never created a business entity myself. But, the impression I get is that it is a matter of filing some forms...maybe paying a small fee or two to the government.

It seems to me that a few people have made suggestions as to what should be done to help save the Loew's Kings. i.e. Gustavlifting wants to make a documentary, Gustavlifting wants to do a combined effort to save the Kings and the Brooklyn Paramount, Gustavlifting has compiled a list of web sites on historic preservation/getting grants, etc., other well meaning people post 'theatre building' that have been converted to supermarkets, still others think 'we' or 'me' should file for a 501c3, but...IF you notice, nobody goes on line and says that THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING. Instead of all the folks with suggestions (exception: Jim Rankin-who doesn't even live here in NY) how come NOBODY goes out and DOES anything?? HOW COME nobody actually watched my TV episodes on the Kings? How come nobody has called or written to newspapers, real estate developers, concert promoters? How come? Or how about the suggestion of contacting stars that may have appeared or even worked at the Loew's Kings and trying to enlist their interest? HOW COME nobody actually reports DOING A THING other than making the suggestion?

If I have offended anyone, perhaps it will motivate you to do more than write suggestions!

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Bruce 1.... You have Not offended me! I know that sometimes a lot of ideas get kicked around. Some are good, some are not too good, but they are ideas that are worth looking at. The filing of the so-called 501 c3 form may be a start. I got no response from the Jersey yet. This Saturday April 50th, I will be at a ship modelers conference and show in Conn. One our members is a lawyer. I WILL ask him about what will be necessary to get the ball rolling. Also, if a group does ever get started, what will they {we) call ourselves? Does anybody have a design for a letterhead? If we do get a group together, where can we meet? Etc etc etc.Jim Rankin does raise several points to condsider in his April 21th entry. It will not be easy. By the way, when can I catch your shows? I do not have cable.

Bruce1 - I live in Manhattan and have Time Warner cable. I'd love to see your shows on the Kings. Any chance they will be shown here? If so, pls let me know when. Thanks--

Bruce 1;
I have been working to find information on the Kings. You will also note that on my site, there is a pagea about the Kings with your E-Mail (which you permitted me to do). The particular page is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm and I hope I wrote it right.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe we should meet

Bruce 1;
maybe I should also tell you that I suggested these sites because they are people interested in restoration of old buildings. There is some work I have been doing.

TGustavelifting... Has anybody ACTUALLY formed a group to look into the possibilities of actually doing something. Bruce 1 right. Everybody seems to have a sugestion,If anybody can actually figure out the 1st step, prehaps that will lead up to something. Lets not forget the tremendous ammount of money this project will require. It still will be a lot less costly than building a stadium over the West Side railyards, and besides the theater is already built.A friend of mine says that I am dreaming. I would like to prove him wrong.

Theaterrat;
Bruce 1 has his E-Mail, which he has already given on this page is thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

Some years ago, there was a group trying to save Loew's Kings. It may have even collected money from the public to help in that effort. Whatever became of it?

Warren.... Thats the 64dollar question!

The group was started by someone I showed this page. If you use the E-Mail above you will contact him. Furthermore the webpage I mentioned before has the page about it. It is part of a main New York Nostalgia Page called the Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Website, which has its url at http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu and that should take you to the index. It's a fairly large site.

Dear Warren and Theaterat,
Ever since 1987, my group, 'Save The Kings' has been the ONLY group, to my knowledge, that has ever tried to Save The Kings! We have never asked anyone for a nickel.

Bruce 1;
Did you ever get a certificate of incorporation from New York State? In order to start a not for profit you need this. It may be a good idea to try and solicit funds for the restoration. Not necessarily to restore the theater, but to inform people of the group. This way you can buy more flyers and such. Also, you can do yardsales. That's what they do with the Raymond Theater in Pasadena, California.

It is possible to collect funds without incorporation, but it is risky. IF in future someone should become dissatisfied as to your use of the funds they donated --even an amount as small as one dollar-- they could sue you and everyone in your group personally for fraud. One's personal financial liability could be great, considering both actual and punitive damages assessed by an unsympathetic court. With incorporation as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT, your personal funds would not normally be liable to seizure in case of such as embezellment unknown to you, and your literature would carry a notice that you are so incorporated and that therefore the funds would be accounted for and not put into your personal bank account. The disposition of the proceeds of a corporation must be documented according to law, but the actual work is small for any legitimate group. Your Treasurer should be a person of integrity who knows elementary bookeeping and can be depended upon to be dilligent about recording all income and payments and keeping the files of receipts of such. Possibly your management at your cable station, Bruce1, will allow you to ask their attorney for advice, without cost to you. Best Wishes.

Dear Jim,
Consistently, you come up with worthwhile ideas and a game plan, however I still see everyone else giving advice and not following through with any of THEIR OWN IDEAS. If anyone should come up with the proper way to 'get a certificate of incorporation,' let's see them do it!

Let's call this an exercise in futility! Let's recognize that I do not want to do everything myself, what I did want was people to band together, divide responsibilites and actually try to accomplish this, so what do I get? I get the well meaning, but the do nothing crowd.

It seems that every time I bitch and moan, the flow of constructive suggestions begins anew...BUT, not once, have I see anyone who actually made the slightest effort to accomplish anything. All they do is suggest what could be done. (as long as they don't have to lift a finger!)

So, if the Loew's Kings can be saved, it will be by some well-meaning billionaire who sees potential of the third largest performance space in the City of New York. It will not be the result of this forum.

Not once has anybody written that they have 'begun the process of landmarking, begun the process of incorporation as a Non-Profit, written or called anyone for anything.

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Dear Jim,
Consistently, you come up with worthwhile ideas and a game plan, however I still see everyone else giving advice and not following through with any of THEIR OWN IDEAS. If anyone should come up with the proper way to 'get a certificate of incorporation,' let's see them do it!

Let's call this an exercise in futility! Let's recognize that I do not want to do everything myself, what I did want was people to band together, divide responsibilites and actually try to accomplish this, so what do I get? I get the well meaning, but the do nothing crowd.

It seems that every time I bitch and moan, the flow of constructive suggestions begins anew...BUT, not once, have I see anyone who actually made the slightest effort to accomplish anything. All they do is suggest what could be done. (as long as they don't have to lift a finger!)

So, if the Loew's Kings can be saved, it will be by some well-meaning billionaire who sees potential of the third largest performance space in the City of New York. It will not be the result of this forum.

Not once has anybody written that they have 'begun the process of landmarking, begun the process of incorporation as a Non-Profit, written or called anyone for anything.

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Bruce,

I would love to throw my efforts behind your cause. But, I am currently President of my high school alumni association, Captain of our league basketball team, and bass player for a local rock group...all of this on top of a demanding job. Offering you my help would be an empty gesture, as I would probably never follow through on anything in a timely manner.

That being said, you mentioned writing a letter. I can certainly accomplish that at some point in the coming month. Who would I send it to?

You made reference to people at a distance. I think anybody who is willing to help can help. I am in Chicago. But, if I had the time to contribute, you would be well aware of my efforts. Being halfway across the country is no excuse for not lending a hand!

Last, I think it is critical to incorporate. How can you gather funds if you are not official? What are you going to tell people? "Yes...the money is being held in a savings account with my name on it." I don't think that incorporating is a terribly painful process. Jim seems familiar. Perhaps he would volunteer to fill out the initial paperwork.

Life's too short to spend talking about things without intelligent action! Let's get moving!

Best regards,

Eric Ellis

Life'stooshort;
Why not use the band to create funds? If you perform then you can give the concert money to the cause.

Bruce1;
If you want to be the head of this corporation then you have to sign the certificate. We can't do that for you on this end. I have a paralegal certificate, that has to be done by the corporate head.

Jim Rankin;
You give some pretty good advice there.

Much as I would like to help with such as letters of support, my filling out legal documents for the state of New York is even more unlikely than doing it for my resident state of Wisconsin, since the statute requirements for every state are different and I am not in the legal profession in any way. LifesTooShort is right that there must be a legal entity to refer to in any letters Bruce1 might like to see others write, else whom do we refer people to in our letters of encouragement for preservation? Merely stating that we think the KINGS is valuable and should be preserved is not enough; people want to know what they should do and what we are asking for. Money? If so, to whom do they send it and what will it be used for? Their time? Where and how are they to spend that time? Bruce1's efforts "since 1987" to raise the public conscience in the matter are admirable, but it takes more than public sympathy and petitions delivered to the city to cause something of this scale to happen.

I do not have the resources to travel to New York city and carry a picket sign in front of the KINGS with a 'Save This Theatre' message, and I don't think it would do that much good if I did do such. I can well understand if Bruce1 is not comfortable taking on the task of being the head of a legal corporation --even if it is only a handful of people-- since life is short and no doubt, full for him too. Perhaps he is at the point in his life where he frankly feels that others should pick up the 'torch' if it is to ever illuminate this issue throughout New York. Of course, with the city's RFP about to come out, maybe we all should wait to see its results at least for a few months after its issuance or date of withdrawl, if any. But, then again, if it receives no desireable respose, it could be taken by the 'movers and shakers' that there is no real public sympathy for this theatre, closed lo, these many years now.

Perhaps a group of New Yorkers standing in front of the doors waving the RFP in their hands before TV cameras invited from all stations, would get public attention, especially if giant photos of it in original state could back the 'demonstrators', or hand-outs of 8x10s of it as it appeared at opening could be given to reporters (they are always looking for visuals). I know that your station would like to keep such an event an exclusive, Bruce, but if you really want full public backing, you will have to involve as many people as possible, including those who do not view your cable station. If you can get a crowd in front of the theatre as your 'demonstration' is speaking before the camera, that will make the 'people' scene that the TV stations look for. Of course, if no one in the area is willing to appear there with you, I think you had best put your good talents to other causes. Nothing is more pathetic than the image of a lone individual standing in front of a building being demolished and saying to reporters "I wish I could have saved it." Best Wishes!

Bruce 1;
I recall reading about you before our first E-Mail contact. My guess is that you will probably know people at other stations having been around broadcasting as long as you have. If you speak to them, maybe they will be willing to interview you. I'm getting a new car. My old one would not make it from exit 62 on the Long Island Expressway to Brooklyn. I may be able to go in and take some stills and video of the Kings at present. However, you are the one who is involved professionally in the media. My cameras may be old, but I'm willing to help.

Again, thank you for all the advice. But I still believe that if there are people who actually want to help, then they should be willing to have a meeting. Without a meeting, there can be no personal involvment! I disagree with Jim that first there must be the establishment of a Non-Profit Org. If there is no interest, if nobody even wants to meet face to face, what is the value of an organization? If nobody wants to have a meeting, how can we divide into those committees, come up with a plan, etc.

I don't think that raising the money is the answer. I have written extensively about all those big billionaires that have the money. Now when the RFP is issued, we'll find out if they have any interest in either saving the Kings or replacing it.

As far as writing letters, I don't think that we have to be incorporated to write letters.

When it comes to carrying a picket sign in front of the theater, I do agree with Jim. I don't intend to be the only one standing there! As far as getting media attention, (from other than my own show) I can tell you that it's not an easy thing to accomplish. However, I will ask the Borough President if he would be willing to throw a press conference in front of the Loew's Kings? Maybe he would like to offer a proclomation 'thanking' the Kings for it's long history and it's potential in entertaining the people of Brooklyn.

At this point, I would again like to thank those 'out of town' contributors for their suggestions. I have another thought, if you live in Chicago, maybe you could contact the owners of the 'Chicago' theater, tell them about the Loew's Kings and ask if they might want to answer the NYC RFP? Or perhaps the owners of the St. Louis FOX or the Detroit FOX or the Atlanta FOX or any other saved house!

Let me just repeat, if you want to make a phone call or write a letter to a major real estate developer or theatre operator, you don't have to have a non-profit certificate. If you contact the person who is responsible for real estate acquisition, who knows maybe they would have interest?

Again, Jim talks about having giant blow up photographs of the Kings for a media event. That is something that could be done or some of my own footage can be shared with the media. Maybe I will make the 'press conference' suggestion to the Borough President?

Lastly, if that RFP will decide the fate then it's probably too late to incorporate as a non-profit. At this point, it's more important to find the developer who believes the theatre should be saved!

Bruce 1;
Name the time and place and I will be there. If you wish to only do so be e-mail please say so on this page. Some people don't want to place their schedule in a public forum while others do. I can tell you right now the easiest time for me will be after May 31. This way I am sure my classes and tests are over.

Thanks Gustav! Hopefully, others will want to join us for that meeting.

In the meantime, I have talked to the Borough President's people and they think a 'press conference' in front of the Loew's Kings is an idea of merit. Let's hope there is a speedy follow up.

Everybody listen up! We need to get together somehow. I am willing to take the risk of meeting someone from the internet for this. Outside of this forum and E-Mail, Bruce 1 and I only spoke on the phone. I'm willing to possibly take the risk of meeting him. Are there any other takers?

Bruce, Gustavelifting....I have been told that a local Flatbush civic and business group may be interested. There is also another Brooklyn based group that may be of help.I was also told to have a statement of "intent"that is a statement on just exactly what purposes the theater will be used for.We also heed a name with a letterhead to show that we are serious and for credibility purposes.We also need a name for our group, if it ever gets off the ground.I was told that before it goes any further, a core group needs to be formed, and a meeting schedule needs to be worked out. Also, it will not hurt to inform local historic societies such as the Broojklyn Historic Society of our efforts.In the near future, corporation papers can be filed.Please inform me by E mail if a meeting schedule can be arranged. You are right, its time to get off the "talking" stage and start the "action" stage. I live in Brooklyn, and you have all my support.

Good thinking theaterat. Good thinking.

I would like to help save the Loew's Kings as well, you can contact me on my member info page. I've actually met Bruce in person at the Brooklyn Historical Society Fair a few years back, he is a really great guy committed to saving the Loew's Kings.

What if we contacted other societies? Who would be the best to bring into the fold? I believe the Theater Historical Society is already in.

Theaterfan, Gustavelifting, Bruce 1....Been doing some research on the Landmark process. The LPC law requires that "A potential landmark must be at least 30 years old and must posess a special character or special historical, aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage. or cultural characteristic of the city, state or nation". Intend to go to the Brooklyn branch within a week.

Theaterat,

Of the four Loew's Wonder theatres in NYC, the Valencia in Queens & the Paradise in the Bronx both have landmark designation status. I think for the Paradise it may only include the terra cotta facade, because it was quaded at one point. Both the Kings and Valencia were never multiplexed, I hope this fact works in our favour.

Theaterat/ Theaterfan
I did research and some Rapp and Rapp Theaters are on the National Register for their architecture. That chances for the Kings getting landmark status are two to one.

The landmarking process can take time and may even discourage real estate developers from getting involved and answering the Request For Proposal. However, having that MEETING, getting things out in the open and making plans that can and should be done.

Theatrefan is right, I am a great guy!
So let's get this show on the road! As I recently reported, the Brooklyn Borough President liked the idea of setting up a press conference to talk up the potential of revitalizing the Loew's Kings.

Now, as far as the potentially bad news...Clear Channel Entertainment has been a loser for the Clear Channel Corporation and they will not be expanding their theater operations. Hopefully, other major operators can be found. Again, I suggested getting in touch with the people who run the Atlanta FOX, St. Louis FOX, Detroit FOX, Chicago Theater, etc. Perhaps they would want another house?

thats.brooklyn@verizon.net (Let's have a meeting!)

Bruce 1;
What about the Loews Jersey? Do you think that would be a good idea? They are another "wonder theater" and restored to operation.

Yes, Gustav. Why don't you contact them? They have already carted off a projector and some seats from the Loew's Kings!

Bruce 1 abd Gustavelifting...I wrote to the president of the Loews Jersey about 4 weeks ago to explain the situation. I even included a SASE< but I have yet to get a response. I will keep you posted on all that transpires in the event that I do get a reply.

Bruce,

How where they able to cart stuff out of there, I thought currently NYC EDC is in charge of what happens to the Loew's Kings?

Theaterfan....This probably happened several years ago, before the NYC EDC took charge of the Kings

Guys;
I don't think that now is the time to look at vandalism happened in the past. We need to look at the Kings's Future. What are we to do with it if and when it reopens, and I believe it will reopen? Also, how do we get to the reopening phase?

Bruce 1;
You may want to do a theater search on this site for the Raymond Theater in Pasadena. Their url is listed on the page. I passed your on to them, but I don't think they got in touch over the passed few months since. There is a California Promoter who may be interested in our idea.

Gustav--nobody from the Raymond ever got in touch. Please try them again!

Theaterat--"Theate-Rat"?? Is that how you got your 'handle'? Well, fear not there are no rats in the Loew's Kings! There's nothing there to eat. However, some years ago, I do recall hearing a rustling sound and that's when we threw a projector reel. At the time, homeless people were hiding out, so who knows it might have been them. These guys did manage to steal some sconces and the brass banister and even a large swath of carpet from the mezzanine. (Probably was used to carpet their little shack just behind the theater.) All of the above happened DURING EDC's watch!!!

I've been thinking about trying to get the theater landmarked, but can't decide if that's a good idea or not. If we attempt to do this, could that totally discourage any developer?

Generally, it is beneficial to get landmark status, even though that almost never preserves much beyond ORIGINAL exterior. Landmarking can at least stop the quick buck guys who buy an historic structure, and then quickly resell it to someone who has no intention to preserve it, but intends to demolish it to build something else. For what protections one can depend upon with landmarking, one must consult one's Historic Preservation officer at the state house, a real estate attorney, or the League of Historic American Theatres for information relative to one's own state's laws, since the federal and local laws are administered under the state's.

The only downside to landmarking is that many buyers are really interested in the potential land value of the property and want the option to remodel or demolish as they wish in future, so will not buy a landmarked property. But would we want them to own such a landmark worthy structure? Landmarking also shows potential buyers that the property is considered worthy by experts and the public alike, and many money men wouldn't know artistic or historic significance if it came up and bit them; they need to be guided by such as Landmark Designation to see where they can put their money and thereby buy some public stature. Many money men already own dozens of properties, but they want the 'feather in their cap' of being known for also owning a prestegious structure worthy of being designated a landmark, and promoters of a landmark must be willing to allow the change of name to such as 'money man's theatre' or whatever his name is, to entice such large egos to invest in a theatre. For example, if Donald Trump were to be invited, one would have to expect to massage his ego by allowing him to name it the TRUMP THEATRE. You cannot expect big money to be humble in this country where money is god and king.

Bruce1, Jim Rankin,... Since there is nothing yet, landmarking seems like at least one option to save this theater. Having it being used as an arts center, that is having community theater, lectures, concerts, revivals of classic films and the like are ideas that must be considered. These need to be discussed at a meeting. I have mentioned the Loewa Jersey as a reference point. This "wonder theater" was saved by community action and preservationists. I have written to the president of the Jersey explaining to her that a similiar effort may begin in Brooklyn, but I got no response.There may be interest on the part of community and local civic groups to back us, but, again a meeting must be held so a "battle plan" of some sort can be formed. I guess that if enough people..myself included can write to the presidents or other officers of "saved" theaters prehaps they can be of some assistance. Even if a big money man like Donald Trump does want to get involved-this seems highly unlikely- there is always the matter of ego.I realize that the situations and other considerations that saved classic theaters in other parts of the country are different from those in NY, but finding the proper channels and getting some form of organization are what WILL save the Kings.As I have said before, it is a shame that Brooklyn- the 4th largest city in America has less than 13 operating theaters.PS Bruce 1... My original handle was to be "THeaterati" but I messed it up and it came out as "Theaterat" I like the sound of it!

Theaterat: I believe that the masculine singular of 'theaterati' is Theaterato, and I beleive they would allow you to change to that if you wish.

Dear Jim,
If landmarking will do little more than protect the ORIGINAL exterior, big deal! My problem is that I have done so much homework and learned so much about what the developers are doing in the area of the Kings that this had allowed me to speculate what a developer might do?? Everyone who hears my logic, thinks I'm on the right track. However, what if I'm wrong? What if these developers are so greedy that they want the whole square block and don't care about an aging movie palace?

I have the right contacts, but perhaps they are not telling me what they're really thinking? Perhaps they have nefarious intentions? I just don't know, but what I do know is that the Brooklyn Water - front is red hot. Developers are developing every square inch. I also know that Inner-Brooklyn has been getting a major face lift and the Kings could be next! The surrounding neighborhood has been on the comeback for a number of years and the timing seems to be right, but then again, I'm not in the billionaires inner circle and I don't know what they are actually planning!

Just the same, one thing for sure, EDC is definitely making their preparations and preparing to put Loew's Kings back on the auction block-RFP and that will happen very soon!

Loew's Kings could become:
#1-The Kings County Center for the Performing Arts
#2-The Sears Flatbush Center for the Performing Arts
#3-The Trump Theater for the Performing Arts and Hair Club For Men Center
#4-The Streisand Center
#5-The Lords of Flatbush Center - starring Sylvester Stallone and Henry Winkler (They were both ushers at the Loew's Kings)
#6-The Ben Vereen Center - Ben's mother was a 'char' woman at the Kings
#7-Who know??? The Flatbush Outlet Mall and Discount Shlock Center

Proposals no.3 thru no. 7 ( especially no.3 and 4 } are absolutely terrifying!Boes Brooklyn REALLY need another schlock outlet center?Anyway Bruce 1, you show a good sense of humor!Think I will stick with "Theaterat".

I sense your pain and frustration, Bruce1; we all want to see it become a beautiful theatre once again, but, no, there are no guarantees, regardless of all the good will and effort you have put in. The reason I mention landmarking that **may** only preserve the exterior, is that it may likely discourage those who simply want to demolish or gut the interior, because demolition would be prohibited, and gutting or drastically altering the interior would likely entail changes to the facade also for structural reasons. Since this would be expensive to adapt a new interior to existing windows, steel, ornament, etc., a nefarious developer would be daunted by the expense involved since a theatre exterior is nothing like a factory, condos, or offices, for example. Thus your landmarking would not only show the merit of the building in the eyes of the good people who might restore it, but it would dim the appeal of the place in the eyes of those who only want to wreck it.

Theatrat: If you want input from the Jersey, I strongly suggest that you join their group and befriend a MAN at their meetings who seems able to guide you in the process of landmarking or rehabbing as they did the Jersey. The woman in charge may now see herself as too powerful and occupied with other matters to devote time to help you. If you can get a guy interested there, then perhaps he and some buddies will be willing to take a jaunt to Brooklyn to check out the KINGS and see what can be done, but they will likely expect you and
Bruce1 as well as Gustave and others to have met at least once before they will meet with you so that they can know just who they are talking to. If it turns out that more than one individual or group approaches the Friends of the Jersey, they may feel that their time is being wasted by too many unconnected people. You must meet and at least set up an informal group before anyone will take you seriously. I write in advocacy of movie palaces here in Milwaukee, but I have no influence upon local movers and shakers (money men) because I have no group behind me, no official standing. My advice is cheap, but money men want a realistic estimate as to what the return on their investment will be, or if they are independently wealthy, like the millionaire who bought the PABST THEATER here from the city in order to gain historic prestige, then such will buy prestige more than an investment, since theatres RARELY make lots of money and they are EXPENSIVE to keep up. Thus the appeal of the 'Friends of the KINGS' must be to money men who (1) adore theatres, or (2) seek a public scale project by which to buy adoration for themelves, though they would never put it that way.

Do you know your big wigs in the area well enough to have an intermidiary approach them? A good place to look is in the Directory of Foundations at the library which will give you their names, if not their addresses. Foundations are started by such men to avoid taxes, and also have a staff to shield the big wig from the many people who solicit money every day, so your approach to a Foundation may be rebuffed (especially if your approach is only emotional and lacking in required research and a sound re-use proposal), or they may end up giving you only a tiny fraction of what you need to redo the KINGS. Most foundations are now targeted to social causes, not architectural preservation, so carefully note the goals/causes of a foundation and approach them ONLY in harmony with what you perceive they want and will give to. Such a directory (there are several) will show to what causes a foundation has given, what their giving limits are in their fiscal year, what restrictions they have on their gifts, and how you are required to approach them. Realistically, very few such give more than a million to a single cause, and many much less, so they will be looking to see if you are approaching others to make up the difference to do what needs to be done. Few will give anything if it appears that Friends of the KINGS is unincorporated as a non-profit, has no realistic program at least suggested, no big names on their board, no special bank account in which they could deposit a foundation check, and the intention that just this one foundation should bear the entire multimillion cost of the restoration. Local charities may be able to advise you as to realistic contributors, but Friends of the JERSEY may not be a realistic help in this regard, since the laws of New Jersey may well be quite different than those of New York. Under the search term FOUNDATIONS DIRECTORY, www.Google.com lists some 3 million 'hits' and perhaps this will be of help to you. Best Wishes.

Bruce 1;
I will try to contact the Raymond Theatre again. By the way, maybe we should just call it the Brooklyn Kings Performing Arts Center. Of course I don't know, but if you put their name in some people may think you're pandering.

Guys;
Here is the latest on the Raymond. I contacted them, let's see what happens. Will they contact me back? That's the important question. If they don't, will any of you be willing to also try and contact them?

Since that posting moments ago I have E-Mailed other theaters that, according to this site, were designed by Rapp and Rapp. They were the Loew's Jersey, Al Ringling, and Adler Theaters. I will keep you posted.

Gustavelifting... Good luck on contacting the JERSEY. I did that 5 weeks ago by writingb to the president, but she never returned my letter. I even sent a SASE. I would like to give her name on line, but I am not sure if I should.I read Jim Rankins posting and he has some good ideas. I will try to contact the Raymond and the ST.George Paramount in Staten Island myself.Still ready for that meeting!

Well, I just got my new ride. I should be able to make it. The question is when will Bruce 1 be ready?

Good luck on your new ride Gustavelifting! Looking foward to meeting you( and Bruce 1 and others} if a meeting ever gets scheduled. By the way Gustavelifting, where do you live? I live in the Dyker Park section of Brooklyn, not too far from the Belt Parkway and Fort Hamilton.

I live in Holtsville, Long Island, LIE Exit 62

Theatrerat, You mention the Paramount and St George theatres on Staten Island. They are both listed on Cinema Treasures and I have made a few comments on both. The St.George has been beautifully resored and is currently working as a live show venue with classic movies planned for later on. As for the Paramount, sadly, I think it's a dead issue, it was sold recently to a developer who has plans that do not include saving it as a theatre. I recently visited the Paramount and was brought to tears by it's current condition. If you get a chance to see the St George, I think you will be pleased.

Vito....Was in Staten Island not too long ago. The theater I was refering to was in fact the ST. George, not the Paramount. Anyway it was open and they were getting ready for a recital or something. I asked the person at the door if I could go in and look around. They said "Sure, enjoy yourself". The theater was very impressive, and it seemed to be in good condition. It reminded me of a theater I was in in Chicago some years back( sorry, I forgot the name).Another perfect example of a "saved" theater, Staten Island is a better place due to it. This is a perfect example on how the great Loews Kings can be re developed!

We have a theater in Patchogue. After its restoration the town was restored around it.

Theaterat,I hope your visit was post December 2004, most of the work had been completed by then and the results are rather spectacular. The theatre celebrated it's 75th anniversary in December.
Visit the website at www.stgeorgetheatre.com

As far as a meeting, I will need names and phone numbers to arrange for a convenient time. They can be sent to thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

For those that missed it, the City Section of the Sunday NY Times featured an article with photograph of the St. George. Incredibly, the cost of restoration was one million dollars. Unfortunately, we'll not be able to restore the Loew's Kings without an extra $34 mm (give or take a few)

The St. George was never permitted to deteriorate to the extent of the Kings, which is why the cost of repairs has been "reasonable." It is also a smaller theatre than the Kings, and not as extravagant in decor. But I would not call it a full "restoration," since some of the work is not faithful to the original.

We may not have to be that faithful either. There may be some items that can't be found or repaired. However, close is better thatn nothing.

Absolutly, you do the best you can from old photos, blueprints,and speak with as many people as you can find who knew what how the theatre looked originaly,then you can go out there and save the ole girl. Warren is quite correct, the owners were very respectful of the theatre and kept an eye on their investment. I remember speaking with the owner before it was sold, and he spoke of the joy of owning what he described as a magnificent structure. The new owners have spent a lot of money and had many people helping to bring the theatre back to it's former self. I urge everyone who can go and see the theatre even if just to visit, bring the kids because they will may never see the likes of it again. LONG LIVE THE KINGS!

Yesterday's papers carried the story of the United Nations seeking a temporary (5 year minimum) home in Downtown Brooklyn. This brought to mind the need to house 2,700 employees that are now scattered around Manhattan and of course room/rooms suitable for the General Assembly.

So, I suggested that the U.N. consider the Brooklyn Paramount as home to the General Assembly. The adjoining buildings are of course owned by the same developer who plans to build the Nets Arena and the office/housing/shopping complex nearby. So, the U.N. could wind up occupying some of THAT new space. Who knows? Maybe Long Island Univerity has thought of reopening the Paramount as a theater, but if not, I would rather see it as the temporary home for the General Assembly than if it were cut up into classrooms.

However, when we stop to consider the accelerated pace of real estate development throughout Brooklyn (Yesterday, the NY City Council unanimously approved rezoning and development of the Williamsburg Waterfront), plus interest in the redevelopment of Coney Island is gaining strength, while the cruise ship industry makes ready to build piers on the Red Hook Waterfront and progress toward Brooklyn Bridge Park, etc. It's obvious real estate billionaires are profoundly interested in the revitalization of Brooklyn!!

Hopefully, they're thinking, as we're thinking about the revitalization of the Loew's Kings as THE KINGS COUNTY CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS.

I was thinking that we may want to get our feet wet with the Paramount then go to the Kings. You see, the Paramount is supposedly in better condition, and probably an easier restoration job. This would be practice for when we revitalize the Kings. Also, assmuming they both open, the two largest theaters in Brooklyn would not be in competition with each other, but working together for concert dates.

The Brooklyn Paramount is probably not in danger of being torn down, where as the Loew's Kings may face the wrecking ball. Therefore, my efforts remain with the Loew's Kings.

It is highly unlikely that the BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT would be torn down, since Long Island University enjoys using the many offices that front the theatre, a feature that has caused more than one movie palace to enjoy an extended life. If only the KINGS had had such a feature to help it survive in easily restorable condition. No, demolition is not impossible for either, but it would have been nice even for rehab purposes to have rental spaces to gain needed revenue. Is there any space on the land of the KINGS to build at least a small office/residential/commercial building? IF so, then such should also be mentioned prominently in any proposal for the theatre. Modern rehabs usually also want added stage depth and rehersal areas among other new space requirements; does the KINGS' site allow for this? Could an adjacent site be acquired in a package deal to allow for such expansion, a method used with many other rehabed/restored theatres? It is all about making the real estate deal attractive to investors!

I rarely find myself saying this because I don't go for this sort of thing, but should we form a picket line?

Aren't there some storefronts on either side of the entrance? They could be turned into offices easily.

Looks like I am going to be spending some time upgrading the Loew's Kings site if I can. Will the college let me into the site during finals week, I don't know. If this is true about the Kings Demolition, then the people need to know about it.

A recent discussion of Loew's Kings at www.brooklynboard.com brought up another problem that seems to mitigate against its revival. The Kings was said to be a long walk from any subway station, which would discourage people from traveling there, especially after dark. Is that true?

At this point, there are NO plans to tare down either the Loew's Kings or the Brooklyn Paramount. However, anything is possible!

Jim's logic regarding 'office space' at the Paramount, being a benefit, certainly makes sense. At Loew's Kings, there are adjacent store fronts and construction could create office, retail or even HOTEL space above the theater.

For Gustav to think that 3 store fronts with MAYBE a total of 5,000 square feet would be enough to create a meaningful block of office space---makes as much sense as picketing! If Gustav wants to picket, it's a free country...although, I have no interest in such folly.

As far as Warren's assertion regarding public transportation, that's true! However, it never stopped patrons from attending this palace in the past. Besides, the combined parking lots of Sears and the Ratner controlled lot( behind the Kings) can certainly handle the driving crowd. Not to mention the buses that go up and down Flatbush Avenue.

Regarding Bruce1's comment, yes, in the past, the lack of nearby subway service did not effect attendence. BUT I think this has to do with the fact that the majority of the patrons came from the immediate area (Flatbush) which was and is very densely populated.

If the Kings' venue is to be a performing arts center, a movie revival house (ala Loews Jersey) or a combo, this lack of easy transport will have an effect because it's sucess will rely on people coming from out of the area.

The Loew's Jersey are ideally situated because the Path is literally right next door.

Bruce 1 C Connoly There is a subway stop not too far from the Kings.Sorry, but I do not know what train it is. If parking is an issue,I am sure the sears and the Ratner parkimg lots will suffice. When I went to the Kings before I had a car or even a drivers license, it was adout a 30 to 40 minute bus ride.I never let that stop me from going!The destination was its own reward.

"I never let that stop me from going!The destination was its own reward. "

That's you and I and most people on this site. But the general population? It's iffy. And it's those people that are needed if a venue like The Kings is going to suceed.

The B & Q trains stop nearby on Church Ave., several blocks west of Flatbush Ave. In addition, the Flatbush Ave. bus line runs frequently from Cadman Plaza in B'klyn Heights in the north to either Kings Plaza or Veterans Ave. at the southern ends of the borough.

Maybe CConnolly is right! The Loew's Kings is not convenient to the Path and so, without further ado, let's forget our 'massive do nothing' campaign.

Oh come on Bruce 1 and Astynax;
There is someone from Long Island who believes in it. I also think that the whole transportation thing is outrageous. I went to Brooklyn College for a while. The Flatbush Avenue Bus passes the Long Island Railroad. I have been living on Long Island since 1974, and went to the college in the eighties. Sometimes I would take this bus to the Junction of Flatbush and Nostrand. It would pass the Kings. Furthermore, we have performing arts centers out here, and the transportation system, they say, is worse then the city's. There would be some walking distance from the Patchogue LIRR Station to the Patchogue Theatre for the Performing Arts, and the only other choice you would have is taxis. However, this theater, which was a vaudeville house that turned to movies before closing, reopened in the middle 1990s, and we are proud of it. The theater is also surrounded by parking and people usually ignore the "no theatre parking" signs to go there. The perceived lack of transportaion to the Kings is really a moot point if you consider that people can get there with public transportation. If people want to go there, they will go there. It all depends, really, on the entertainment we place in there. They say that if you build a better mousetrap they will come. I think all we have to do is build a better entertainment mousetrap and they will walk from the station or, park their cars in the lot despite some protest if any (then again, there may not be any protest). In short, lack of transportation does not mean lack of audience. It all depends on what's playing and not the number of walking steps. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

To everyone above in the last few postings...What if there was NO Path subway that stopped near the Jersey? What if there was NO parking ( at a lot or on the street?} Would that discourage people to go? Besides classic films, the Jersey has operas, concerts, independent film festivals, Afro American events, jazz, and many other features. The same venue would make the Kings viable as an entertainment center. Pickets outside the theater( thats so 1960s )would only discourage would be investors and big money people.

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers with my comment about the Kings and it's proximity (or lack of) to a subway. I was just trying to point out one of the obstacles that might limit it's appeal as a varied entertainment venue. There is nothing I would love more (well, yes there are...) than to see The Kings return.

But the comparison (I think) to the Jersey is valid. What were the variables that managed to make that venue come back as opposed to the Kings?

C Connoly.... As Hamlet would have said, "Aye, theres the rub".Maybe the variables in Jersey City were different than those of Flatbush, maybe they are not.Jersey City has made a "comeback" of sorte while Flatbush is set to comeback soon. Prehaps it will not be as gentrified as Jersey City, but with areas in Brooklyn such as Williamsburg, Red Hook, and Greenpoint emerging as desirable, even trendy areas, who knows? The BAM Rose cinema does feature "art" and foreign films, but, again this area{ downtown Brooklyn{ is closer to Manhattan than Flatbush.Bruce 1 is right. We all talk the good talk, but who is REALLY going to do something? I have a job and my schedule is very flexible, so I can use my somewhat limited knowledge to do my part. The whole trick of this seems to be contacting the right people and pitching this idea to them. But then again, who ARE the right people? As an arts center the uses can be many. What theater in Brooklyn has ever revived classic films? Seeing a great movie on the large screen has no comparison to watching the same film on video or DVD.I am sure that most of us who post entries on this theater all share a common love and respect for these great old palaces, but the sad part of it all is that too many people just do not care.

Hip Hip Horay for Gustavelifting!!! He has made some good points (and is no longer trying to push for a Multi-Theatre Comeback!!)

For all those fans of Magic Johnson, (the same guy that wanted to multiplex the Loew's Kings, one of the Loew's 'WONDER THEATRES' and destroy the lobby with sheet rocked drop ceilings, formica and masonite, has now turned on the Williamsburgh Savings Bank (the tallest building in Brooklyn) and swears he'll maintain all the ---architectural integrity of the building. In effect, the only detail still there is in the lobby and bank areas and that's where he plans to put his 'high end retail'. I wonder, how he plans to install the retail shops without destroying the integrity of one of the marble and mosaic 'WONDER BANKS'

On the positive side, he represents still another developer who has seen the possibilities of major change for Brooklyn. As Theaterat points out, Brooklyn may not be Jersey City, but it is seeing an unparalled development burst throughout it's neighborhoods ... and not just the waterfront! So, I still predict that 'Developers can be decent human beings...as long as they can make a buck!'

To Gustavelifting - You may have misunderstood my comment about transportation. My point is that with the nearby subways and the frequency and reliability of the Flatbush Ave. bus, transportation is not an issue. Particularly with the B41 bus, folks traveling from one end of the borough to another get to experience the entire Flatbush Ave. commercial strip, a major plus for bringing back the Kings.

Well that's what you get when you look at urban problems from a suburban perspective. I may live on Long Island (even though some people want me to move to another called Staten), but you can take the boy out of Brooklyn, but you can't take Brooklyn out of the boy.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO HAVE THAT MEETING? I suggested this site to Bruce 1 because I thought we could help! We have a bunch of positive things on the location as a business. Me, I even plan to come from Holtsville, Long Island to help! I may be doing it in my new classic 1975 Caprice. HOWEVER, WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER! We need to decide where to meet. We have a good business site, which is to say an excellent site for what we want to do.

Let's meet in front of the Loew's Kings, no picketing, just let's meet!

How about some time in June?

OK

I will check with my family about the best time. I'M ALSO WONDERING WHEN SOMEONE ELSE WILL JOIN US! WE NEED PEOPLE!

I will check with my family on the best date. Maybe I can get someone else involved. IF ANYONE ELSE ON THIS PAGE WANTS TO JOIN US THEN MAYBE THEY SHOULD SAY SO.

I go to this page and it doesn't show the one I just put in. I retype and it shows two responses...Ain't that life folks?

By the way, the Loew's Kings just got another vote as the favorite Loew's Wonder Theaters. cinematreasures.org/polls/12 and I think Bruce 1 should put in his vote as well as others.

I'll be in the Northeast from late June to early August. I would like to meet with you.

The Latest News:
No date has been scheduled for the issuing of the RFP (Request For Proposal) by the New York City Economic Development Corp, (owners of the Loew's Kings) They were supposed to issue their BIG RFP in April or May, the Brooklyn Borough President has prepared a written statement of purpose, suggesting various theatrical uses for the facility and hopefully, EDC will make their announcement soon!

Bruce 1;
I can meet with you sometime the week of June 6. We would have to make it in the afternoon because my mother is coming with me, and she would like to visit Greenwood Cemetery for Father's Day.

Why don't we suggest that the city restore it and open it? It could see great use as a municipal theater if they do it right.

When is Markowitz going to hold that press conference again? I know it's on the June 1, but I don't know the time.

You would be laughed out of the meeting if you suggested that the City of New York pay for the restoration of the Kings! A preposterous proposal at any time, and especially now when the City is so strapped for money.

The City of NY will not pay for the renovation of the Kings, but would probably offer some incentives that will make it attractive to whomever is willing to tackle the project. And, speaking about tackling the project, is there anyone out there in the "peanut gallery" who is willing to volunteer long unpaid hours-ala the Jersey and do their part to help out?Think about it. You may have to paint, plaster, peel, scrape, and do many other things such as usher, sell tickets, sell refreshments, etc,etc,etc.I personally DO want to get involved in it on some level. Do you?
,

RE the Jersey... To quote Siskel and Roeper.."the balcony is now closed".The volunteers working at the Jersey are going to rehab the balcony soon- if it now. Just to give you an idea of what that will entail will be to renovate hundreds of seats. They will be removed and years of grime, chewing gom, soda (and other )spills will have to be cleaned among other things.This is a major renovation task that undoubtely will have to be done at the Kings.Ain`t gonna happen overnight! Be prepared.

You could put ten years of your life into a project, doing just what Theaterat says, plus a whole lot more. You can create goodwill for the theater; promote professional contacts within the entertainment industry; produce the venues most successful events; coordinate a huge amount of press in the local news media; bring in people to restore the theaters technical capabilities; get burnt, cut, bruised and sore working on all different types of projects in and around the building, and then get pushed out by individuals who feel they are more qualified to program the very events which you created and which brought the most notoriety to the project. This CAN happen, and it happened to me. By all means, do what you feel is best to help save this magnificent building. Just be careful on how much of your free time you commit to such a venture.

This announcement appeared on today's NewsFlash bulletin from the Theatre Historical Society, and it may be of interest to any who have the time and money to attend this League of Historic American Theatres convention, which they call their "Ramble". These people are the professionals in historic theatre restoration and operation, so valuable information and contacts may be obtained. Perhaps this is just the impetus that the Friends of the Kings needs. If a few of you fellows can attend, perhaps sharing the cost of a hotel room, then you may have a concrete beginning, though I still am of the opinion that the state of the KINGS is such that only a big money investor can bring it to life. I cannot attend, but Best Wishes to any who can.
"Have you made plans yet to come to Kansas City in July for the 29th Annual LHAT Conference and Theatre Tour? > > CREATING A LEGACY: HISTORIC THEATRES IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL > > Main Conference: July 20-23, 2005 > Optional Pre-Conference Theatre Ramble: July 19th > > Headquarters Hotel: The Fairmont Kansas City at the Plaza > > > REGISTRATION > > Registration will open soon for the conference, BUT YOU CAN RESERVE YOUR HOTEL ROOM NOW. > > For reservation information, click here: http://www.lhat.org/conference_theatre/2005/hotel_accommodations.asp The LHAT group rate is available through June 24th. > > > 2005 CONFERENCE BROCHURE > > LHAT members will automatically receive by mail the 2005 conference registration brochure AS SOON as it is available. If you are not an active member or are not sure you are on the LHAT mailing list and would like to receive a brochure, please email us at info@lhat.org with your contact information. > > All the details we currently have available about the conference are on our website now: http://www.lhat.org/conference_theatre.asp > > There you will find details about the conference schedule, special and optional events, educational workshops, theatre tours, accommodations, Kansas City and registration fees. > > > WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO ATTEND? > > We all share a common appreciation for the cultural and architectural heritage that historic theatres represent in our communities. We share the goals of carefully restoring, refitting and effectively operating our theatres. However, our industry is comprised of a diverse group of individuals and organizations that have differing needs at various stages of project maturity. > > Recognizing these realities, our Annual Conference is designed to address those disparate interests. Whether you are: > > - Starting to mobilize a community around a visionary dream > - Just beginning to select an architect, mount a funding campaign, or launch the construction phase > - In the early years of operating, programming and marketing a historic theatre > - Or, a veteran who has been at it for years > > your focus is on sustaining the viability of a historic theatre and on future-driven imperatives. At the LHAT 2005 Conference, there will be invaluable resources and professional development opportunities for everyone! > > Join hundreds of your colleagues from across North America in Kansas City this July. Reconnect with your peers. Enrich your own professional capacity through our respective successes, challenges and fresh ideas. We can all return home with a renewed spirit in the noble cause that each us strives to uphold every day of the year. > > > For questions, further information or if you are unable to access the above links, please contact the LHAT office at info@lhat.org or call toll-free (877) 627-0833. > > > > > For more Information call 410-659-9533"

Jim Rankin.... Sounds interesting. Only bad part for me anyway is that I will be on a cruise vacation at that time. However, I do intend to log onto their website to find out more about this group. Thanks for passing it on to us!

As has already been pointed out, we shouldn't expect the city to pay for the restoration. However, it is quite realistic to assume that they will offer a package of incentives to the developer. As far as Mr Rankin's suggestion, as usual, it's a good one. At this point, I'm unsure of my plans, but certainly, it would be a worthwhile convention!

Bob Furmanek also make a good point. Unless you are the either the developer or the theater operator, you may lose control. From the very start, I wasn't looking for the glory or the responsibility of running the Loew's Kings. What I hoped is to influence theater operators and or developers to restore this magnificent theatre.

As far as a meeting, so far, theaterat and gustav and myself are willing to meet. No date has been set and in the meantime, I hope a few others will want to join us.

Is Markowitz having a press conference in front of the Kings on the first of June? I recall reading it here, but I could not find the message.

The Brooklyn Borough President has not scheduled any press conference regarding the Loew's Kings. I made the suggestion and, at this time, no decision has been made.

Thanks Bruce 1;

I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO JOIN IN THAT MEETING BETWEEN BRUCE 1, THEATERAT, AND MYSELF. The more the merrier, so to speak. I would like to get a tentative date from Bruce 1.

Soon, I must firm up other plans first.

Okday

How did that d get in there?

WHO ELSE WANTS TO JOIN US? The theater is worth saving because of the many famous people who worked there. Imagine Barbra Streisand, Henry Winkler, or Sly Stallone taking you down the aisle to your seat.

Bruce 1;
I was thinking of 'the Performing Arts Center of Kings' as a name. The 'Kings' is still on the marquis so we can incorporate it.

I'm afraid that HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD would only make one think that yours was another cinephile pic, rather than about the theatre itself. The Brooklyn song I have never heard.

Bruce 1;
You have not yet given me a date on that meeting.

Everyone;
I am starting that video on the Kings. I will be going there tomorrow with the camera in the car (I hope I don't get into any trouble). I want to know what you think of these songs as possible openings, HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD, or GIVE ME THE MOON OVER BROOKLYN.

Good luck Gustavelifting, you are to be commended for your dedication to giving the Kings a new life.

The one and only movie I saw at Loew's King was "The Way We Were". I just found the ad, it was playing on Columbia Premiere Showcase and along with the Kings in Brooklyn was at the Dyker and Georgetown 1. The ad was dated December 9, 1973.

Did you go to the Kings knowing that the movie's star, Barbra Streisand, had worked as an usher there? I wonder who had inherited her uniform by that time? Around 1953-54, the Loew's uniform for female ushers switched from a maroon jacket and tan skirt to a one-piece maroon dress with long sleeves.

Actually my aunts mother lived a few blocks away and we went there to visit her and she way saying she was dying to see this film, so my uncle took all of us. I found out Barbra worked there a few years later.

Does anyone out there have pictures, or film of the inside of the Kings? You can't get in.

I went there twice already. It's sad, but you can still see the grandeur despite the decay.

As has been brought out in previous comments, the largest source of images of the KINGS is the 1980 movie MEMOIRS OF A MOVIE PALACE at a branch of the NY Public Library. Reportedly they will not loan it, so one must view the VHS there.

Vintage photos are seen in the 1927 book AMERICAN THEATRES OF TODAY which was issued as two volumes, and in the second volume it is pictured or mentioned on pages: 30, 37, 48, and 158-9.

An especially nice photo of it is on page 159 of THE BEST REMAINING SEATS: THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE by the late Ben M. Hall.

Most all of these photos are available for a fee from the Theatre Historical Soc. (www.historictheatres.org) by contacting them. Offer to pay for xeroxes first, and then select which images you want them to reproduce for you. Fees are listed on their site under Archive.
It is quite possible that local libraries and historical societies and museums will also have more, along with such as the Avery Architectural Library at Columbia University, where they have a collection of the THSA's MARQUEE magazine in which they have published a few photos of the LOEW'S KINGS. One often has to dig around to find vintage photos. Best Wishes.

Gustavelifting...What happened when you went to the Kings?Was there anybody there? Hope you did not make the trip from Long Island for nothing. You may be able to film inside the Jersey. If I were you, I would ask the president(or somebody with the publicity dept) if it will be OK. I guess you can go on a weekend day while the volunteers are restorinmg the balcony seats, this would probably be a good time to get in. There is no air conditioning so you will probably sweat like a pig.While you are there make sure to see the Stanley wich is about a block away- right over and accross the railroad bridge. This magnificent theater is now a Jehova`s Witness temple, but they DO give tours and allow visitors to see it. Believe me, you will NOT be dissapointed!It is worth seeing, and you will be amazed at what they did to it. Please let me know how you made out if you go. I1m thinking about volunteering myself in the near future if nothing develops with the Kings.

In 1968, my James Madison High School graduation was held at the "Kings" and it was truly spectacular. I have such wonderful memories of that theatre and Flatbush Avenue in general. Shopping at the "old" Macy's and Sears. Even Loehmann's on Duryea Place. I now drive past these locations and, even with the changes, the memories have not faded!!

Susan Heifetz....

Theaterat;
I was unable to get in, so I filmed the outside. Frankly, Marcus Loew would be turning over in his grave, but I think the theater can be helped.

Everyone;
I am looking for pictures taken inside the Kings. Anything from old home movies to photos. I want the historic stuff. Does anyone on this page have it?

Theaterat;
I would not be discouraged about the Kings. It may be in sad shape but the building still shows grandeur. There is no reason why you can't volunteer at two theaters.

Mr. Rankin;
Before I forget, thanks for the information.

Bruce 1;
Can we meet Monday beneath the King's Marquis?

When Gone With The Wind completed its enormously successful 70 mm roadshow at the Rivoli, MGM sent it out again on wide release.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/GWTW1968Wide.jpg

Robert....In that ad there is a listing under Nassau County for a BS Moss Central theater in Cedarhurst. I wonder if that theater is listed on here. Do you have anymore ads that mention the Central theater.

Robert, thanks for that memory,I was at the Big A Amityville when GWTW played. We had continuous shows every day in four track mag sound. I believe most of the L.I theatres played it that way, although the Central had no mag capabilities, HUGE wall to wall screen however.

Here is the ad from when Jerry toured the Loew's theatres playing "The Bellhop".

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/BellhopJerryatLoews.jpg

I spoke with Bruce 1 and the meeting should happen soon.

Closed circuit fights were shown at the King's in the 70's.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/AliVSFrasier.jpg

There is an interior pic here from Cinematour
http://forums.cinematour.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000011

The Loew's Kings is 'The Heart of Brooklyn' and if you listen hard, you can still hear it beating! As we already know, NYC owns the Crown Jewel Of Brooklyn and there seems to be some delay in issuing a Request For Proposal. Hopefully, we can find a developer who sees the potential of the third largest performance venue in the entire city. Hopefully, some greedy real estate developer will not see it as a 'shopping mall'. Just remember, it's not over until the fat lady sings. Who would you nominate as that fat lady?

Well, after two weeks without a computer (I used one in the library one day and didn't like it), I am finally back. I was looking at the site above that had the fight. That fight was in 1964, and it was part of the King history. It was during the Ali Frasier Fight that a fire broke out in the projection room. This, however, did not close the Kings which is constructed of fire retardant materials. The theater went on for another 15 years.

I may try a corporation called Castle Construction, they may be able to work with us. They are presently working on the Suffolk Theater in Riverhead, a restoration.

I planned on meeting with Bruce 1, but that has to be placed on hold for a few weeks. One of my family is in the hospital.

Maybe I should say that I plan to call him in the next few weeks. We should be visiting Staten Island soon, which is closed to the Kings then my town of Holtsville, Long Island.

I am also planning on speaking with the Loew's Jersey, a restored thater in Jersey City. I want to tape inside the building for the documentary so I can show what a restored theater looks like. That should fire the imagination.

YOUNG PEOPLE might not know what caused the loss of LOEW'S KINGS and all the other great movie palaces in New York City. It was BAD GOVERNMENT, the kind of rotten leadership New Yorkers voted for decade after decade. The 1960's saw a 100,000 drop in New York's population. The 1970's a drop of 800,000; almost a million people left New York during those 20 years. Who left? Middle and upper class white people. Replaced by who? Thousands of welfare recipients. Crime during that era was 500% higher than since Rudy cleaned things up. Niel Simon did a smash hit comedy abiut the insanity of even VISTING New York. NYC was the laughing stock of the world. Garbage, crime, unions, worse. NBC-TV did a movie "Train of Terror" which taught teen punks how they could rob and intimidate Subway riders --- with nobody stopping them. Within 12 hours, the NYC Subway system was a world of fear, as Subway crime climbed into the stratosphere. Remember, NYC's government was so stupid the city literally went bankrupt. The Feds had to rescue NYC from their own brain-dead government with big-time loans and demands for reform. Meanwhile, LOEW'S as well as RKO and others watched their beautiful theaters turn into serious financial losses. Now that New York has regained their senses, restoration of LOEW'S Wonder Theaters would be great. But be aware of just why they all went to the dogs.

No, no, no;
I would say that it was the drop in attendance, and a threatened tax on movies. When the Kings closed the VCR, had just hit the home, and HBO started on television. People did not want to go to the local theater because in a few months the movie would be on television, or on tape. People also did not go to theaters out here on Long Island because of the technology. Also, the mayor wanted a tax on all theaters. I remember riding through Queens about that time and seeing one theater marquis with perhaps the words "Don't Support the Movie Tax". It was not bad press about New York City, it was a drop in attendance that was caused by technology, and the threatened city tax.

However, I should add that I agree with rlvjr on one thing. The city is now back to being a tourist mecca. (Yes, even after that fateful and depressing day in September, 2001) It was in the doldrums for a while. They should rebuild and restore theaters. New York is known for arts and artistry. The Loew's Wonder Theaters could be real cathedrals of the performing arts. In the 1970s, New York was known for things like "ladies of the evening", and other forms of vice. Today it's known for arts, and family attractions. Restore some theaters for family attractions like concerts, plays, and movies.

As far as the Kings is concerned, rlvjr is correct. I was born and raised in Brooklyn. By the mid-1970's, the once beautiful section of Flatbush where the theater is located had degenerated into a near war zone. Many were afraid to drive down that stretch of Flatbush Ave with their windows down. Worrying about leaving your car unattended for two hours took away whatever enjoyment the film and theater provided. The City was literally falling apart. Thirty years may allow some to look back with rose colored glasses, but many of us remember all too well the horror of those years. Thankfully, the neighborhood is finally showing signs of turning around. Thank God for Rudy. However, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Let's hope that never happens.

I don't think that the "movie tax" would have kept the public away. It would have amounted to only a few cents on a ticket. The opposition came almost 100% from exhibitors, who didn't want to surrender some of their takings to the city or be bothered with all the book-keeping involved.

Guys,,, Yes, Rudy DID turn around NY. Times sq is now a family attraction, tourists are coming Downtown, So Ho, the East and West villages are always crowded, Tribeca is happening, Midtown buzzes, etc, etc, etc. However, aside from now trendy Williamsburg, Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope( wich seem to be extentions of Manhattan more than Brooklyn neighborhoods), the boro is still being refered to an "outre boro". Granted, Flatbush was a hell in the 70s and most of the 80s, but it too has come back with a very lively Carribean flavor. If we can get people to look past the "outer boro" label and experience Brooklyn for ALL its vibrant areas , tjis would be a first step to the re-opening of the majestic Kings.

Theaterat, I was just confirming why the theater was abandoned in the first place. As you say, the surrounding blocks did turn into a hell in the '70s. At the time, it appeared the only future for the neighborhood was that of a bad sci-fi movie. Thankfully, as I stated above, the neighborhood is showing signs of improvement. As someone who is proud of his Brooklyn roots, nothing would make me happier than to see the Kings open, refurbished, and full of people. Mayor Bloomberg and BBP Markowitz just saved the B&B Carousel(l) in Coney from being lost forever. Maybe the Kings can be their next project. Granted, it will be somewhat more expensive.

I took my video camera to Flatbush, and it does seem to be a Phoenix from the ashes. There are new stores there along side the Sears that has been there seemingly forever. These are stores you see in a shopping mall. It was great to see it rising. However, the bird still needs to brush off some of the ashes. Some of the smaller, 'junkier' shops were still there, and if they clean their act it will be phenomenal. I see a good future that Flatbush can be proud of.

I may not remember this group of bums (too young), or the stadium they played in, but there is another thing Brooklyn would need to do to be great. Rebuild the Field of Ebbet's and bring back the Dodgers.

R.H.
There is a committee formed to open the Kings. If you would like to help, you can reach them through this website

Http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm

R.H.
There is a committee formed to open the Kings. If you would like to help, you can reach them through this website

Http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm

Gustavelifting, thanks, I'll check it out. I was scheduled to take one of the tours they were giving in the late 1980's, but got called into work that day. I'm still angry about missing it!

Gustavelifting... Maybe "the Bums" who moved to LA will never come back, but we do have the Cyclones and their new park in Coney IS. Granted, it isn`t major league ball, but it IS turning Coney Island around- for the good.

Theaterat;
I know about the Cyclones, and I really added that to get a chuckle. I went to a Cyclones Game when they played the Yankees of Staten Island. I hope your stadium is as much fun to be in as the one by the ferry.

R.H.
Give it a try. I think it should be turned into a performing arts center.

Its more fun than the park near the ferry. And Nathan's is right next door!

I never attended a movie at the Kings, so I don't know the seating policy. Were all tickets priced the same, or was their premium added for upstairs seating? The theatre did not have a balcony, just a mezzanine with several hundred seats. It seems possible that the seats in the center of the mezzanine were premium-priced, and the rest the same as orchestra seats, but that would have required extra ushers to supervise the center section.

Sorry, that should read "was there a premium added for upstairs seating?" To save time, I neglected to do a "preview."

Had no idea how many comments were on here! I biked on Sunday from Jacob Riis Park to Park Slope and saw this massive structure. Its front reminded me of the Paradise and it had a great frieze? in the middle. On top of the doors it said it was the the Loews Kings Showcase? I loved how it had a facade and then was diagonal. Strange. I bike around to the back and it was weird, the neighborhood just ended but the building is huge and intact. Around the corner was a Sports Authority or some box store and then the neighborhood. There was a 7-block street fair and it was bustling. Some folks saw me eye it and told me someone had just bought it. I went up to the doors to look in and could only see a sliver of the lobby. The second set of doors past the ticket booth had reflective mirrors and reflected the stores behind me. The facade smelled musty.
It would be used highly by the community. The neighborhood is busy and it's Flatbush, I mean, come on.

Shoeshoe....Yes, that is the general idea, to revive this great theater to its former glory. Re all the posts on this theater there seems to be a lot of interest. Did you ever go there? It is truly spectacular. Even when the shows were lousy, just being there was all the fun. And you ARE right, this theater is huge{

Snowshoe;
I think the Paradise in the Bronx, and the Kings were designed by the same architects, Rapp and Rapp, so they share a history other than the Loew's Name. That is probably why it reminded you of the Paradise. Like the Paradise, it's a Loew's Wonder Theater. It's also the toast of Flatbush and Tilden Avenues.

By the way, I have yet to see Keyspan Park from the inside. I hope some day they will start the parachute jump again. Imagine catching a ball in that thing!

Hi Gustavelifting. The Paradise was designed by John Eberson.

There will be a celebrity softball game at Keyspan Park on Sept.18 if you want to see the inside of the park. Unfortunatly the parachute jump will never operate again. Even if they could restore the ride, because of high insurance costs, a ride on it would cost about $20. You would have to hit a ball about 500 feet to reach it anyway.

Ziggy;
I just checked this sight, and you are right! I though all Loew's Wonder Theaters were designed by the same team, my mistake.

Gustavelifting.. Re the Parachute Jump. It is doubtful if it will ever function again. Blame the high cost of insurance and the fact that there will probably be countless lawsuits filed by riders who get 'shaken up'. Went on it once with my father when I was a kid, and it scared the hell out of me- although the view before the drop was awesome!

I am too young to remember being on it. Steeplechase closed when I was only three. However, I think Markowitz wants it running again as part of the revitalization of Coney Island. I just hope he gets the Kings open, and restores Coney Island back to its former glory. I may be living just on the other side of the Verrazano Bridge soon, and I am a former Brooklynite (which I am proud to say).

Does anyone close to BP Markowitz know whether Markowitz is aware of the progress being made on the Loew's Paradise in the Bronx? If the Paradise restoration and performing arts uses are successful, this could be a template for the great Loew's Kings.

Right, Mr Noble. Then again, so could the Loew's Jersey. That's another one of the Loew's Wonders.

Dear Paul,
Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is very well aware of the Loew's Kings. He is anxious for the NYC Economic Development Corp to issue their long delayed RFP Request For Proposal. He has been anxious to restore the Kings ever since it closed in 1979.

The Kings is located in Flatbush and that's where Markowitz began his career as a tenant advocate. Since then, beginning in 1979, I have worked closely with him in generating interest and providing ideas for its restoration. Marty Marakwotiz is is definitely a friend of the Kings.

The newest target is to have the Kings RFP be issued sometimes in October-November.

Isn't it a bit early to be using the Paradise as a "role model?" We still don't know the full extent of the "restoration," and the Paradise has yet to re-open or even announce an actual schedule of events. When and if that ever happens (and I become increasingly skeptical as years pass), it will then take a considerable time to prove whether the Paradise can be profitable or not.

Maybe I should tell you all that Bruce 1 emailed me that he has another person looking at the theater for possible restoration. If I recall, I suggested to him that he try showing the person the Loew's Jersey. What do you all think of this idea?

Showing the JERSEY may be both good and bad, depending upon how visionary the man is. If he sees the beautiful remainders of a movie palace and likes that form, he will be encouraged. If he sees only the many patches and all the work to come, he may see only even far greater expenses in the KINGS. All of this depends upon just what he *really* intends to do with the structure and land. Often times, prospective buyers will claim to be preservationists only to really be developers with ulterior motives. Of course, bruce1 is only doing someone a favor, and has no control over what such a person really may do. Let us hope the prospective owner has both noble intentions AND deep deep pockets!

Amen, Jim, Amen

Couple color photos of the Loew's Kings.
http://www.agilitynut.com/p/kings204.jpg
http://www.agilitynut.com/p/kings2204.jpg

What needs to be shown is one that has been completely restored. Does anyone know of a completely restore theater?

That largely depends upon what one means by "completely restored." The terms 'rehabed' or 'refurbished' are often used to avoid the connotation of something really brought back to original condition as the word 'restored' implies. Most all theatre 'restorations' are not really that since to very few can afford so muchj extensive, hand crafted details, especially since the factories that made many of the furnishings and such no longer exist, and some items such as the huge, elaborate draperies are rarely around today with the knowledege and capacity to do such lavish work to the caliber that it was then done.

Still, there are a few 'restorations' that might inspire someone:
The PARAMOUNT in Oakland, CA (draperies too)
The STANFORD in Palo Alto, CA
The PARAMOUNT in Aurora, IL
The PABST and RIVERSIDE in Milwaukee
The RIALTO in Joliet, IL
The LOEW'S (VIRGINIA CENTER FOR THE PERF. ARTS) in Richmond
among others. No doubt others here will think of some.

The Loew's/United Artists in Columbus, Ohio, is another. But I doubt that any of these theatres ever reached the horrifying current condition of Loew's Kings. The cost of a full "restoration" would probably be a minimum of $100 million due to the high costs of labor and materials. And that's in 2005 dollars. By 2006, it might be a minimum of $115 million.

The Stanley Theatre in Jersey City was completely restored even know it is used as a church.

I need some around the Brooklyn area, or in New York City.

The NEW AMSTERDAM in Manhattan shows what can be done, though it is not and never was a true movie palace.

Radio City Music Hall was "restored" not too many years ago, but it hadn't decayed to the extent of Loew's Kings. Loew's Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn has been beautifully rejuvenated, as has the Albemarle (near the Kings in Flatbush), but I wouldn't call them authentic "restorations." Nor is the Stanley in Jersey City for that matter.

Thanx Jim and Warren

The New Amsterdam is a good example Jim, especially because it's condition was pretty horrifying before it was restored. If I recall, there were mushrooms growing in the downstairs lounge, and a great deal of plasterwork had been ruined by moisture.

The New Amsterdam is only half the size of Loew's Kings, and also had support from the seemingly bottomless treasury of the Walt Disney Company. I think folks should stop daydreaming about a "restoration" of the Kings and just concentrate on finding someone with at least enough money to save it from collapsing or being demolished and patch it up into working condition. The frills can always come later.

Warren;
It made need a little patchwork, but I don't think the building is about to collapse. There is someone interested and looking at the theater with the head of the committee to save it. Furthermore, work has been done on the building, including the roof and shoring the facade. In other words, the building is not exactly ready to fall down.

I agree, gustavelifting, from the pictures previously posted of the interior, from 2001, it looks like the interior is in great shape....if anyone needs a refresher, those pics can be seen, as a previous post, at: http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php...towards the middle of the page

I personally visited the Kings in the summer of 2002 during the annual conclave of Theatre Historical Society of America and must STONGLY disagree with the claim that "the interior is in great shape." It was in horrifying condition, and many areas were closed to viewing for safety reasons.

For a place closed 30 years those 2001 pictures don't look bad. Was there a lot of water damage from 2001 to the time you saw it Warren?

Yes, I think there had been major water damage during the severe winter of 2001-2002. Pidgeons were also flying in and out, crapping all over the place.

The old stage house roof was totally open to the elements, and pidgeons had moved in. We had them in the projection booth at the Loew's Jersey, and it was not a pretty sight...

The roof has been fixed, and they may need to get rid of the water damage. I haven't been in the theater since I was young so I only know what I saw on the internet of the interior. However, I do know from the head of the Friends of the Kings Committee that the roof has been fixed.

It is heartening to hear that the roof has, at last, been fixed, but let us not delude ourselves that there is not much damage. It will cost a large fortune indeed. Just to hire the guys to trap/kill all the birds and wildlife in there will costs tens of thousands, and that must be done before it is safe for workers to work in there. I am a great admirer of the KINGS, but I wonder if it was not the enormous task ahead that finally stopped that once proposed rehab into multicinemas by that athlete's group. Let us give the committee all the encouragement they need. But let us be realistic about the vast job ahead. Those photos give only a glimpse into the large scale of the place; there are dozens of places not shown that also will require expensive renovation if not actual restoration.

Actually the roof was fixed a few years ago. I am going to suggest to the head of the committee that they hold a rally. I am also on the committee to save the Trylon in Rego Park, Queens. They are planning a rally on the 27th.

To all of the recent posters on the Kings.... Even though the Jersey IS opened and showing movies and featuring other events. it is by no means complete.It still is a "Work in Progress" and still hase some rough edges.It will be many years until it is restored to its former glory, but the important thing is the fact that it IS open and people seem to be supporting it.Was there on 10-9 for "Monty Python and the Holy Grail' and "Dr Strangelove> and there was a pretty large audience for this show.While Kings preservationists will probably get no support from the Jersey management, it still can be a case in point reference to anybody pitching a revival of this theater.There is no reason why a classic film venue cannot flourish in Brooklyn, so lets start to concentrate on the positive reasons for re-opening the "Loews of Loews"

World War II may have still been going on but Bob and Bing had them laughing at the Kings with "Road to Moroco" plus "Henry Aldrich Editor". The same show also day and dated at the Pitkin
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/MeandmyGal.jpg

This item was sent out to those who signed the Chicago UPTOWN's petition on the CompasRose web site:

"The following news blurbs come from the Uptown Adviser, the Friends of the Uptown newsletter (visit their Web site at www.uptowntheatre.com):

For your cinematic pleasure—One Night Only!
Memoirs of a Movie Palace and Uptown Community Portrait 2005
to be screened at Friends/Truman College event
6:30 p.m. Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005, Truman College

"Memoirs of a Movie Palace" will be screened at Truman College, 1134 W. Wilson Ave., in Uptown. The venue is Novar Hall, where seating is limited. This is a very special screening of a very difficult to find movie. "Uptown Community Portrait 2005," a short cinema verite documentary, will precede the feature film.

"Memoirs," a 1979 independent film, tells the story of a theatre very similar to the Uptown: The LOEW'S KINGS THEATRE, in Brooklyn, N.Y., which also remains closed without a plan for reuse. The film was shot on location as the KINGS was being closed in the late 1970s. If someone had the foresight to shoot a movie in the UPTOWN (minus the Brooklyn accents!), we would have a very similar document, with the same kinds of memories recalled and sentiments expressed.

Your attendance as a "Friend" of the Uptown is important to our efforts and goals. As major stabilization work is ongoing at the theatre building, it is a good time for us to network and get to know each other!

Donations will be accepted in lieu of a fixed admission ticket price. Truman officials said that we may park in any of the adjacent Truman parking lots (driveway located on Broadway through the McJunkin Building). Entrance to the Truman building itself will be through the easternmost doors located on the Wilson Avenue side (north elevation). Staff will direct you from there.

***"

The fame of the KINGS and its documentary is spreading, and if you are not in the New York area and have not seen this documentary, this may be your chance, especially if you have wanted to see some of Chicago's remaining palaces as a side trip. Bon Voyage!

Where is this college located?

Jim;
A committee has been formed to save the Kings. Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is interested in the project.

I forgot to add to my other comments that we are winning another poll. Which one of theses theaters in New York City should be restored?

http://cinematreasures.org/polls/79

Gustave, Uptown is a neighborhood of Chicago, therefore the college is there.

Recently, I went to see the Loew's Kings and what I saw was worse than I expected. Although, the Kings still looks majestic, time is starting to take a toll on her. The front of the building is fithy and the windows do not look like they have been cleaned since it closed. When I looked into the lobby windows there was water damage along the ceiling and it appears to be extremely dirty.

Several people approached me asking about the Kings. They wanted to see the Kings saved believing that it would be an asset to their neighborhood. Also, every store front in the surrounding area of the Kings on Flatbush Ave. with the exception of the Kings building and the attached store fronts are being utilized. This clearly gives the reader some indication that it is profitable to have on a business on Flatbush Ave in Brooklyn, New York.

My friend and I had a meeting with the Brooklyn Borough President's Assistant, who confirmed that Mr. Markowitz's indeed is interested in saving the Loew's Kings. However, there is the fact that it would take about 60 million dollars to restore the Kings. Where is the money going to come from? Mr. Markowitz's office is open to suggestions. Please remember, at the present time, the Kings can be saved if we use our resources to save it. However, in the next couple of years, the damage maybe too great and the Kings would be the only Wonder Theater that could possible be razed!!!

Lance, there is a committee to save the Kings, and its led by the person on this message board called bruce1. If you can't find his email on here, let me know using this board.

There is a saying, "If people knew better, they would do better."

It is quite discouraging to know that the Kings has been closed for more than 25 years and those who have claimed to have taken care of it, allowed the Kings to fall into such disrepair.

At the very least, the Kings should have been properly maintained and looked after. The exterior, interior and the windows are filthy. This belief that some people have that let's sit back and wait for someone with deep pockets to save the Kings has not worked. If the Kings was looked after, maybe it would be in similar shape to another Rapp & Rapp theater: Uptown, in Chicago, ILL. More important, the community where the Uptown is located wants to see it saved. The community were the Kings is has no emotionally attachment because no one has taken the time to make this an agenda. How can we save a theater unless the local commuity is part of restoration of it? These are the same people that will be attending this theater. The Kings could have been used for graduations, weddings, local gatherings, filming, and the list is endless. Instead, it has been left to rot.

Why weren't the stores next to the Kings being rented and that income used to help maintain the Kings? Every other store front on Flatbush Ave. is being used. This also would have meant more people would have had contact with the Kings.

Anyone who has seen the TV Special: Memories of a Movie Palace will remember the former manager of the Kings when she broke down crying upon seeing the Kings in 1979. Can you imagine her reaction if she were to see the Kings today??? It is infurating to know that this Palace was allowed to fall into such a deporable state.

This is the reason why my friend and I had a meeting with the Brooklyn Borough President's assistant. We offered to volunteer our time and money in order to help to save the Kings.

The theater itself could be a part of the revitalzation of the Flatbush area by getting the community members involved with the cleanup and restoration work. This should have begun 25 years ago. However, it is not too late.

We have to be proactive. This means voicing your opinions with the legislators in Brooklyn, NY to at least stablize the Kings. Also, coming up with solutions so that the Kings can thrive in the area it is located.

We may also have to make concessions, if you want to see the Kings survive the next couple of years. I would rather see the Kings be stablized and in the conditon that the Majestic in downtown Brooklyn, NY is in, than be razed.

Lance;
Let me know the latest. I can join the fight on two fronts can't I? I mean this theater should be opened for performance, and I would like to see it.

Lance;
You may also find some encouraging news at this section of the Cinema Treasures

http://cinematreasures.org/polls/79

Lance, your pain at the KING'S situation is palpable, and most all of us here agree with you that the KINGS should be returned to service of some sort, but what sort? That is the crux of the matter, don't you see. All the enthusiasm in the world will not pay for the huge bills to repair, rehab, and revitalize a huge movie palace for which there is no longer an audience. Movie-going is declining steadily as more and cheaper options of entertainment present themselves, and even much smaller cinemas with comparatively small overhead are finding it a tougher and tougher go these days. It is all well and good to talk about a community performance center or the like, and a mixed use facility does SOUND possible, but what all these proposals lack is a SOUND financial plan, and that is what is needed to reopen the KINGS in any format. I wring my hands too as I see the years march on and the building deteriorate, but I am not going to criticize Brooklyn fathers for not spending more of the fewer tax dollars they have to pay for more than roof repairs --alone totaling many thousands of dollars. If this were a small theatre of less than a thousand seats, it might have worked out as a public project with tax dollars, but the city fathers are not stupid; they know that anything the size of the KINGS will require a large fortune to repair and reopen, and they were not elected to spend the public's money so lavishly. As with all central cities, the people most in a position to pay taxes have moved out long ago, leaving only those least able to pay taxes for all the many needs, much less vast buildings which no private interests will touch. Does this fact sound an alarm bell for would-be preservationists? It should! Private interests will always take on an expense if they sense that they can make money from it, but they will stay well away from something that appears to cost more than it will ever return. It is part of the cost/benefit analysis that all business must make in order to survive.

I will continue to pine away for the once grand --if not grandiose-- KINGS, but I will not imply criticism to any locals or businessmen who have not stepped forward. The neighborhood of the UPTOWN in Chicago may favor returning that huge theatre to use, but the history of it is littered with good-willed individuals and groups that went bust trying to save it. That city has already spent hundreds of thousands trying to stabilize the structure, and they face over a hundred thousand dollars in heating costs yearly to just keep it above freezing while it remains dark and idle. How much more can we expect the dwingling tax base to maintain? For the same reasons as the KINGS, the UPTOWN will not reopen under any private sponsor: it will cost too much to maintain, even if new uses are found. With mounting tragic social causes across the country, we cannot expect philanthropies to spend for buildings ahead of people, and our poor people must be healthy and solvent enough to pay admission to such huge theatres in huge numbers in order to keep a REALISTIC cash flow = the means by which a theatre 'eats' (pays its bills.) No, the UPTOWN is no model for the KINGS, for though it is stabilized to an extent, it still has no realistic model for use; how many performance groups are there that can essentially fill a four thousand seat theatre that has millions of cubic feet of space to light, heat and cool?

The stores flanking the KINGS were most likely not rented because the city faced the legal obstacles of what is called "demising" by which a deed restriction would have to be formed to separate the stores from the theatre in order to limit the liabilities of the would-be tenants, and such agreements are difficult if not impossible to reach. In many cases like this, the stores share some of the utilities and systems of the theatre, since they were originally under the same ownership. Who is going to pay to revamp or rebuild such today? New tenants? Why should they if they can go to another storefront nearby and have no such opening costs? How will such tenants be competitive if they must bear such costs that their competitors elsewhere do not have to bear? How will property taxes be assessed if the demising agreement has any loopholes in it? The last thing the city wants is to appear in court to sue one of its own tenants who object to assessments that might reflect some of the idle theatre which the city owns. Do you see the problems that arise?

Let us continue to hope for the KINGS, but not any of us advance lofty ambitions unless we have CONCRETE committments of money and use in hand. Long live the KINGS for anyone who has the audacity and money to reopen it.

Kudos, Mr. Rankin. Your explination is very well expressed.

Thank you "ERD"; it is always my hope to make our beloved subject area clear to all concerned. I was once like "Lance" and others who evidently believe 'Well, SOMEONE must be able to do something!' only to grow and realize that these buildings were beautiful, but never practical. They are exhorbitantly costly to run --even when packed with thousands of paid admissions each day as they were designed for!

To amplify the 'demising' situation: If a demising agreement exists, it is an instant RED FLAG against any use of the building by a potential buyer of the theatre, as his lawyers will quickly warn him. Any property buyer wants his property investment to be as safe as possible, and any demising will only serve to increase his risks, not decrease them. For example: suppose the roof leaks and water travels down inside the walls of the front of the theatre, damaging superstructure and throwing some of the masonry onto the sidewalk, as water flows into one of the demised stores under other ownership. Who pays for the roof/building repairs? Who is liable for the masonry striking a patron of one of the stores? Who pays for the loss of business from that and other patrons as repair scaffolding blocks the front of the building and stores? Should the new theatre owner agree to pay for any replacement of store contents? The agreement might make it appear that since it is the theatre's roof, the theatre owner should pay for the repairs, but suppose he doesn't want to or cannot pay the $50,000 or more for a roof job? He will find himself in court with even greater liability, while his areas of the building may not even be affected.

If the utilities cannot all be realistically separated, who pays for the utilities use in the areas that others occupy? IF it is the theatre owner, does he control the thermostat, and will the tenants be satisfied with his idea of proper temperature? If they are not happy, the new owner could again find himself in court, with all the fees to pay for that even if the court finds the landlord not responsible for the tenants discomfort. If so, the tenant will move out, and the theatre owner will find an idle store possibly soon with squatters inside that will theaten the safety and security of his building, not just the store portion that the undesireables have taken over. If such creatures (as well as four- and six-legged ones) will not leave, the theatre owner has no recourse under law, since he does not own the space and cannot enter it, nor legally turn off the utilities to it. If the former owner has abandoned the space(s), the theatre sits with one or more ugly vacancies next to its front doors that it can do little about, other than petition a court to declare the spaces in receivership, which will still not get him control of the spaces, and will take years to clear up via condemnation proceedings.

So we see that any use of neighboring stores or other facilities may prove more a threat than a bonus to a potential buyer of a vacant theatre. And the reverse is true for the owners of the demised areas: if the theatre leaks and only a very absentee landlord owns the theatre, any leaks or other problems may not be addressed in any timely fashion, and again it may take trips to court to get orders to the theatre owner to stabilize the space from which he is getting no income, and cities are notorious for being very poor landlords! After all, how long can the tenants/store owners fight city hall and win BEFORE they go under financially? The lawyers will be happy to keep the case alive in courts for many years while obtaining their fees, while the occupants of the stores go bankrupt. Such is the evil of law in this system of things. So, I never advise someone to buy a property if they cannot get it free and clear of any other ownerships or encumbrances. To do otherwise is think with one's heart rather than one's head, and is just bad business practice that will cost one dearly in the end.

I think if the Paradise can be restored in the Bronx and the Jersey is slowly being restored I think Brooklyn with its large population and great transportation can restore at least one movie palace. Most movie palaces were very successful through the mid 1960's. In the Bronx,Queens and Brooklyn many were successful into the early 1970's. Declining downtowns,changes in distibution of movies as well as the middle class flight to the suburbs along with television brought and end to the movie palace era. Brooklyn is in the beginnings of a great revival which should help the Kings in the long run. I believe the Kings is in an economic zone which would qualify for major funding. The Kings could be restored over many years so people should focus on what needs to be done just to get the theatre open and operating. The Loew's Jersey is a great example of repairs being done over a period of time and a great deal of it by the volunteers which did a lot of repairs at a fraction of the cost.The Kings needs some strong leaders and volunteers who live in the general area with assist from Brooklyn government officials.Poll after Poll lists the Kings as one of New York City's most popular movie palaces, which people would like to see restored. The City of New York should make the necessary repairs to see that no more damage is done to this theatre while it is waiting to be restored.When I took a tour of this theatre a few years ago this was my favorite theatre among the 30 I had seen on the tour. I hope people don't make this the Paramount VS Kings for restoration I think in the long run there will be room for both. Good luck Brooklyn.brucec

Well, you truly can never tell what the future will bring. Jim, I found your thoughts above to be well stated, but remember that you also gave us a long and well thought out argument as to why the Paradise would never reopen as well. It all comes down to the fact that you truly never can tell.

Unlike alot of people who write about the Kings, this was my neighborhood theater. To generalize The Kings situation is an insult to anyone who lived in that area. During the mid 1970's, due to some unscrupulous real estate deals, the neighborhoood changed within a few years. Like most middle class, I left. It took about 10 years for the neighborhood to stablize. Since than, the neighborhood has a working class,a middle class and than there is the affluent Historic South Prospect Park area (and the surrounding areas). Granted you have a very diverse population. However, this could be an advantage if the Kings was to take advantage of meeting the needs of each of these diverse populations. Presently, there is only one major performing arts venue and that is Brooklyn Academy of Music,which is located downtown Brooklyn, NY. This is not sufficent for such a big borough that is growing more prosperous each day.

I am also very much aware that the Kings is very costly to maintain and operate due to its size. However, since there is no performing arts venue other than Brooklyn Academy of Arts, it would be worth the investment especially if Brooklyn wants to continue it's revitalization. Eventually, Brooklyn is going to need another performing arts venue and to build a new one would be at least 100 millon dollars or more. Disney spent over 250 million to build a performing arts venue in Los Angeles, CA. Has anyone seen this venue? I have and it is a waste of money. Granted, the acostics are suppose to be perfect. However, 50 years from now is anyone going to care about this building. To restore the Kings would be about 60 million. Due to the immense size of the Kings, you could cut open a doorway in the lobby and have a couple of 200 screen theaters next to it. The size of Kings could be used to advantage just like they have with the Brooklyn Academy of Arts.

Back in the late 1970's when the Kings closed it's doors, this was a working theater. During the 1980's, store fronts on both sides of the building were being utilized. However, over time, with no one voicing their concerns about the future of the Kings, it was vandalized of everything of value and left to rot.

We no longer can depend on someone else to do the work we can do. Take the time to make the phone calls, write letters to the legislators and make an appointment with Brooklyn Borough President(my friend did). The more proactive each of us is, the more we will be taken seriously.

My friend(who is on vacation)in the near future will be recruiting volunteers to help save the kings. Is anyone interested?

Lance, if you and your friend and others can do it, more power to you! If I had good health and money, I would travel there to volunteer too. Jim Rankin

Jim, Thank you. A word of encouragement goes a long way!!! Again, thanks. Lance.

Lance;
Is there any address, postal or E-Mail that can be added to the Kings Page in the Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Website? I figure, if you wish, you can give either one of them here and it will be gladly handled there.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE KINGS WILL COME ALIVE AGAIN, AND ,IF SO, LONG LIVE IT!

To Whom it May Concern:-

In the past couple of hours I've been reading all about the
"old" movie palaces. It fascinates me. I only wish that something
could be done with the ones that are still standing! Namely the
former Loew's Kings, on Flatbush Ave. in Brooklyn. The theatre has
been declared a "landmark" & therefore can't be torn down. I have passed the theatre many times, & each time that I did so, I wanted to
cry. The theatre, which has been closed for 28yrs now, is slowly
deteriorating! I shudder to think of what it now looks like inside.
It was such a beautiful theatre, and how it could of been allowed to
deteriorate the way it has, is way beyond me.
With everything that I have read about the theatre, there's not
a single person that gets the capacity right. The theatre has a
capacity of 4,200 seats! Isn't there a person out there that will
come forth and revitalize this magnificent theatre? I also shudder
to think that several years ago, Magic Johnson was supposed to come & make a multiplex out of it. I'd rather see the place torn down!!

Sincerely,

Carmine Opramolla-cofilms@aol.com

When was the Kings declared a landmark? That's news to me.

A recent close-up photograph of the facade (minus it's blade/fin name sign) and marquee:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joereifer/56786172/

Ken was kind to provide this current photo of the facade, but permit me to respectfully disagree with his use of the ersatz terms "blade/fin" for the VERTICAL SIGN. Slang usage does not help us gain respect for our theatres or their parts by designating them in so casual, and even flippant manner. Ken is a veteran theatres buff, and while he may have heard such terms in his London area, it does not follow that they have currency everywhere. Yes, one or two American sign companies of today have resorted to such slang, but they are cases of being more concerned with being 'hip' and 'modern' than of having any historical accuracy. This is something like using the disparaging British term "flea pit" to describe such as Covent Garden or Radio City Music Hall; it is just juvenile. Ken is too noble to advocate such, so I assume that he was misinformed.

Jim;
I was only trying to convey what I know this type of signage is called collectively in our two countries. I am led to believe that in the USA it is a Blade sign, in the UK is is generally known as a Fin sign or sometimes known as a Vertical sign. What is the correct term in the USA?

If I mentioned Stalls seating or Pit seating, there are probably not many viewers of this site based in the USA who would know what I was talking about. Yet if I said Orchestra seating, all in the USA would know I mean't what we in the UK would call the Stalls (downstairs) section of seating (The Pit seats were very cheap priced seats on long wooden benches in the rear of the orchestra stalls area in live theatres in the UK at the turn of the last Century.)

Same difference with Marquee in the USA, in the UK is Canopy.

I wont go on and bore you all. You say tomato and I say tomato...LOL

Let's call the whole thing off!

Ken:
The correct term in all English-speaking countries is what they were originally called by the artists who designed them: VERTICAL SIGNS, which, of course, distinguished them from the horizontality of the MARQUEE. Architects and designers of such signs are the authority on how they are termed, since they invented them. I don't disaprove of slang terms in speech, most of thye time, as long as the connotation is not changed by them, but in writing I think that we all must attain to a higher standard for the written record.

You astutely mention MARQUEE versus CANOPY, and here it is merely a limitation of how the thing is observed: a MARQUEE (in the theatrical sense of the word) is composed three principal parts in most all cases after 1920: (1) the Canopy which is what started it all to protect the patrons and the front entry from rain; (2) the ATTRACTION BOARDS where some means was used with or without lights to advertise the bill of fare; and (3) the NAME SIGN, a horizontal affair of the name of the theatre. I wish I could easily say just where the first true MARQUEE and VERTICAL SIGN appeared, but I do not know. Perhaps you will have the resources and energy to persue such research in England as well as at the Archive of the Theatre Historical Soc. here, but, unfortunately, I do not.

Your British use of the term PIT, of course, dates from the earthen floor days of the Shakespearean theatre such as the GLOBE, and once orchestras came about, they were positioned in what remained of that originally seatless area, and were therefore the new 'Pits' and by extension, the ground floor of the theatre became the 'orchestra,' for better or worse.

The term STALLS is rather more complicated since it brings in the references to both area of seating level, as well as type of seats. And through the years, with differernt types of theatres in different countries, there are too many exapmles to mention in our short space here to do the subject justice, so as "saps" emplores, I will "call the whole thing off" (to shamelessly borrow from the song)!

Hi Gustavelifting,

Presently, I am not a resident of New York. However, my friend is and he is the one who is creating an organization to save the Kings. When it is formed, I will advise you. I am planning on moving back to New York. In the interim, I will be writing letters, making phone calls to make more people aware of the Loew's Kings and how restoring it would benefit Brooklyn, NY.

Since I am from this part of Brooklyn, NY, I am aware there are alot of people who would like to see the Kings saved including me. Unforunately, this "Wishful Thinking" on behalf of many people has not saved the Kings from being vandalized of everything of value(light fixtures, etc) nor from the horrifying condition it is presently in.

It would behoove you to make an appointment with the Brooklyn Borough President's office so that you will be aware of the present conditon of the Kings and some of the tough decisions they are facing with the Kings.

On a positive note, another Wonder Theater: Paradise Theater in Bronx, NY has been beautifully restored. Their first concert last month was sold out. It is never too late to restore a great movie palace!

excuse me for calling them "those nice signs" I didn't know this site was that acedemic, I just love old movie palaces.

Those considering the Kings theatre should also look into restoring the beautiful Walker theatre in Brooklyn which is intact.(See Walker site on Cinema Treasures) If I lived closer to New York I would start a group myself.

Jim, you are in error.
Let me set the record straight with some actualities:
The correct term in all English-speaking countries is what they were originally called by the artists who designed them (and who continue to design them): BLADE SIGNS.
Pontification in lieu of research is as empty as the Pitkin.
Some facts:
Ledtronics of Torrance, CA relampers of the Bardavon Theater signage http://www.ledtronics.com/product_news/ifma_article_080205.htm along with,
Wagner Electric Sign Company, of Ohio, restorers and rebuilders of countless examples of theater signage including such notables as the Bardavon, Michigan (Ann Arbor), Tampa, and Fox (Oakland) theaters http://www.wagnersign.com/theatermarquees.htm
pushing ahead with,
The Preservation Coalition of Erie County (Shea's Buffalo Info http://preserve.bfn.org/archives/shea/)
the signage codes of municipalities such as San Diego, Menlo Park among scores of cities
and let's not forget good ol' (get this, kids)
SIGNINDUSTRY.COM who's masthead proclaims "The online magazine for the sign industry",
yes folks, all these and myriad others refer to any sign, lit or unlit, that projects perpendicularly from the face of a building and has two faces as a blade sign.
Just wanted to give this dying-horse-of-a-thread the coup de grace.

Begone Vertical! Get thee to a nunnery. Thy slangy ways have no place here! Enter Noble Blade!

(Enow! Back to my dungeon)

Enow or meow? Either way, 'nuff said.

"Robbie" and others of the 'now generation' are all too eager to believe that currency of use is everything, and among those ignorant of the nature of the semantics of a language merely assume that it is enough for people of their acquaintance to use a slang term, so that it thereby becomes legitimate. In fact, it is history that determines legitimacy and useable currency of a term. Lexicoghraphically, there are two schools of thought on this matter; the 'libertines' represented by such as Merriam-Webster Co. see currency as definition and usage, and will accept the utterings of anyone at all as 'authority' (to the notorious extent of listing a madame of a bordello as an authority on sexual matters!), whereas more conservative authorities and renowned lexicographers connected with academia regard only educated speech/writings over time as the authority of usage labeling. I may be the last 'voice in the wilderness' in this regard, but will opine that it is the position of such authorities as the Theatre Historical Soc. of America that are much more to be respected as standard bearers of non-slang than those involved primarily for a profit motive, and of obviously less than sterling regard for history.

Yes, sad to say, this issue may be moot in a day and age of decaying social standards where newspapers and the Internet are regarded as 'authorities,' but I am not so unrealistic as to think that my defending scholarship here will make any headway with the young 'whippersnappers' who regard any appeal to history as unprofitable and not 'with it.' I am afraid that Robbie's adduced modern 'authorities' are as guilty of the mindless, uneducated 'monkey-see-monkey-do' repitition of innanities as are those who so unthinking took up the phrase: "I could care less" in lieu of the correct and logical phrase as it originally was: "I couldn't care less." English does not have the luxury of a college of language arbiters as do such as French and Spanish, so it will be in the unwashed hurly burly of unrestricted writings such as these that the lustre of our theatres and their parts will be burnished by academic writings or sullied by slang. More's the pity. Now I wonder just who was "Pontificating."

On at least one occasion the KINGS was used as the background for a filming location: the 1996 movie "Sleepers" with Brad Pitt, Jason Patrick, Kevin Bacon and others. A minor character is shown walking up to the front doors and the dillapidated marquee is shown as the camera cuts to the lobby, the grand staircase and the balcony foyer. Not too much is shown of the theatre, and parts of the background are draped in white cloth to hide lights or damage, I don't know which. It is a relatively short scene near the middle of the film and acts as a local gang lord's supposed throne room. The location never again appears in the movie, and nothing of the auditorium is seen. I wonder if it has otherwise been used as a location for film (aside from documentaries such as "Memoirs of a Movie Palace")? Such use for location filming can bring in much needed funds; the LOS ANGELES now survives largely on such fees from the movie producers. Perhaps the NYC area interested ones could join with the NY film commission and prepare 8x10 photos of the original and current state of affairs views to file with the group that furnishes data on locations nationwide to the California producers/location scouts. This might raise the awareness of the wonderful KINGS so that it is seen in more films and thus is seen publically as a valuable resource left to moulder.

This is my first time in a while online. Too bad because there was much buzz here. I don't know how to contact Markowitz's Office. However, that is a good idea. I also did not know the Kings was the location for the movie Sleepers, that's also interesting. However, does anyone know how to contact the borough president's office?

I just came across this site tonight but it brings me to tears to read about the places i have seen or have been in that have gone the way of a wrecking ball. For some reason even though the Kings was closed as a public venue I was under the impression that Erasmus Hall High School was utilizing the stage and insides. I had no idea that the roof and interior was all messed up. I could go on and on here but i wont. As much as it pains me to know that the building still stands but in this day and age there seems to be no need for a 3600 seat theatre. Tthose days I am sorry to say are long gone.

Yeah, it's a tough proposition. I believe that it could once again become a community centerpiece. But not without creative vision, organization, money and extraordinary dedication. Hopefully something better than a multiplex plan will come along.

Watch the Bronx Paradise.

Hi Gustavelifting . Marty Markowitz is the brooklyn boro president and he is also a real A**hole. I have had dealings with him in the past when he was a state senator for Brooklyn. For almost the last 20 years he has run 2 free concert series in Brooklyn. He got public as well as private funding for the concerts but he some how was able to get away with hiring the sound and lighting companies without going to an open bid. I tried to get involved with doing his shows and he was a jerk. I doubt he would lift a finger to help save the Kings unless there was something major in it for him self.

Try to convince Markowitz that he can become the showbix impressario that he aspires to be and use a renovated Loews Kings as his venue for staging his concert series. Convince him to get Keyspan, Bear Stearns, or Pfizer, blue chip corporations with a major Brooklyn presence to cough-up the renovation dollars, and rename the auditorium after Marty.

Astyanax-I don't want to put words in Marty's mouth, but very few things would make him happier than seeing the Loew's Kings as the Kings County Center for the Performing Arts.

That is strange I posted something in here last night and now it is not here. :(

I like the sound of KCCPA!

So write to Borough President Marty Markowitz at Brooklyn Borough Hall, Brooklyn NY

Does anyone know the exact place where I can send Markowitz an E-Mail. Sorry, it's been over a month since I have been online.

Gustavelifting--Try
AskMarty@brooklynbp.nyc.gov

If anyone gets or has access to the Theater Organ Journal of the American Theater Organ Society, there are pictures of the Kings in their current issue. The pictures include an exterior shot and the proscenium when the theater opened, the inner ant outer lobbys and even a picture of the great Billy Nalle playing the Robert-Morton organ. The pictures are from the Theatre Historical Society.

Hello everyone, my name is Kris from Staten Island, New York. I am 27 years old and do not even remember this Theatre and knew nothing about it until today. I was in Brooklyn the other day and stumbled upon the Kings Theatre when I was on Flatbush. I was walking down the street on the same side and I noticed a very large metal beam on the roof going through the top front of the theatre and did not know what it was. As I got closer and looked at it I could not believe what I found. This is the most beautiful and majestic theatre I have ever layed eyes on. I had my digital camera with me and took some pictures, next time I go back I am going to bring my video camera. If anyone wants to see pictures just ask. I wish I could have seen the inside. But I was really ispired by it and learned alot from this message board that I want to be part of any group that will help raise money or bring this theatre back to it's original way. I would donate money if other people are willing to do so. Also does anyone know how the mayor feels about it and markowitz? I would love to see it up and running again, I am just not sure if the area would really treat it well. I mean today's society would not be as respectful of such nice things. They may ruin the place putting gum places and vandalizing it. I would suggest that a higher price be payed for tickets so you can weed out trouble making youth. But I think it should be for people of class because that is what it is. From what I have heard about the inside it was like a palace and should be kept that way when people come to it's re opening. Hey Mayor Bloomberg has so much he should help pay for the resoration instead of parties for his election when he did.

New York Post today (February 6) described Borough President Markowitz's latest attempt to "save the Kings."

B'KLYN: SAVE OUR THEATER

By RICH CALDER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 6, 2006 -- Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is leading the latest community charge to save the majestic Loews Kings Theater on Flatbush Avenue from City Hall bulldozers.
Markowitz is trying to persuade the Bloomberg administration that the future of the gritty avenue's business district hinges on restoring the neglected 77-year-old historic jewel, which closed in 1979.

Reviving the 75,000- square-foot former picture palace and vaudeville house, he said, could also be the centerpiece for a bigger project that includes building residential space, a boutique hotel and retail shops...

Gosh, I do hope Marty Markowitz et al in Brooklyn can get the capital to preserve it. Hey, Theatre, would you send me a copy of your pics? JBYORK14@aol.community (--only put "com" in the aol address.) Thanks

Gosh, I do hope Marty Markowitz et al in Brooklyn can get the capital to preserve it. Hey, Theatre, would you send me a copy of your pics? JBYORK14@aol.community (--only put "com" in the aol address.) Thanks

Sorry to say this but Marty Markowitz will only do something if there is something in it for him. As I had stated in an earlier posts I have had some dealings with the jerk. Then again if anyone can pull this off maybe he can.See Marty is a jerk but he is smart. He has been a NY State Senator for many years and now he is the borough president.He must have realised many moons ago that he could scam more money being a local politician then being a congressman or U.S Senator. He made a good deal of money off his summer Concert series that used to be held at the Midwood HS football field till the local community board got to many complaints from the locals about noise traffic and crowds. He then moved them to Asher Levy Park at W5 st and Surf ave in Coney Island. His other venue he calls the Martin Luther King Jr Concert series at Wingate High School next to Kings County Hospital. It was at this particular series thatdue to high winds a lighting truss was blown over and injured the late great Curtis Mayfield. He wound up paralized from the neck down and succumbed to his injuries a few years later.the following is from the NY Daily News Sept 5, 2004... The story said he moonlighted as a non profit promoter but he got grants from national endowments for the arts as well as corperate sponsors. With the exception of paying the peformers, Sound and lighting guys who also doubled as stage crew the rest of the people working the shows were all volenteers. The man was making a nice penny putting on these shows with out ever putting a dime of his own in to it.

Freakish gust of wind

Curtis Mayfield at Wingate Field, 1990


By DAVID HINCKLEY


Curtis Mayfield

No one provided a better musical chorus for the optimism of the early '60s civil rights movement than Curtis Mayfield.
A guitar player, singer and writer out of Chicago's rugged Cabrini-Green housing projects, Mayfield led the Impressions through upbeat anthems like "Amen," "It's All Right," "People Get Ready" and "Keep on Pushin.'"

He first joined the Impressions in 1958, age 16, just before their national hit "For Your Precious Love" split lead singer Jerry Butler off from the others.

Mayfield kept the group together and they returned to the charts in 1961 with the otherworldly "Gypsy Woman." Soon he was writing songs with an irresistible blend of rhythm and melody that became calls to a better, brighter day.

A decade later Mayfield would explore some darker ruminations with "Freddie's Dead." But while that attached him permanently to the "Superfly" culture, the anthems ike "People Get Ready" and "Amen" remained resonant.

So it was no surprise that on the night of Aug. 13, 1990, more than 10,000 people poured into Wingate Field in Brooklyn for a show Curtis Mayfield would headline.
Outdoors concerts were a long tradition in New York, from the Philharmonic and the rousing Goldman band to pop and rock. For a couple of bucks, fans could spend a warm night watching some of the biggest acts in the country.
The only complaint was that most of them ended up in Manhattan, which is why, in 1982, Brooklyn state Sen. Marty Markowitz decided to bring some of these artists to the eastern side of the bridges.

Moonlighting as a nonprofit concert promoter was an unusual gig for a public official, but Markowitz feared no one else would pick up the ball. Big promoters like Ron Delsener were busy with their own shows, and besides, Brooklyn didn't have any outdoor facilities where 8,000, 10,000 or 15,000 fans could easily gather for a show.

The best Markowitz could find was the field at Boys High, so that's where the Martin Luther King Jr. concert series was launched in 1982. Shows were free, and Markowitz got the biggest R&B artists he could afford on a budget covered by sponsors and donors.

The shows caught on, and three years later he moved the series to the larger Wingate Field, run by the city Parks Department. He also added a second weekly series at Midwood Field, with a more eclectic roster that included pop singers, orchestras and Latin artists.

Armed with attendance figures to bolster his case, Markowitz began lobbying for a permanent outdoor concert facility in Brooklyn. But it never became a budget priority, which left him with what he had. His crew put up the stage the day of the show and took it down the next morning so the field was open for recreation again.

Fortunately, the Wingate patrons brought their chairs, or sat on the ground, so the crew didn't have to set out thousands of seats. Just a stage, sound system and lights.

Like all summer promoters, of course, Markowitz's team was at the mercy of the weather. The official policy was that if there were anything more than "light" wind, rain or thunder, the show was called off — though the unspoken rule is that you give the show every chance to go on, largely because you disappoint thousands if it doesn't.

Weather didn't seem to be an issue on Aug. 13, 1990. The stage, sound and lights had been routinely assembled in the afternoon and at 7:30, soon after the sun had set, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes played their opening set.

Moments after they finished, Curtis Mayfield started up the steps to the stage, carrying his guitar and surveying a crowd that was already rising to applaud.

Then, in about the time it would have taken him to raise one hand and acknowledge the welcome, Curtis Mayfield was flat on his face on the stage.

He did not yet even realize that he had no feeling or movement from the neck down.


The crowd didn't know that, either. The crowd did know, to its horror, that a blast of wind had sent one of the light towers pitching forward, landing directly on Curtis Mayfield.

The towers weigh several hundred pounds. The impact broke his neck.

He was rushed to Kings County Hospital, where he was placed in intensive care. Reports on the severity of his injury surfaced quickly and several days later were confirmed.

Eventually, he got the best outcome he could have hoped for. He lived.


Though it was a very different life. The man who used to wake up in the morning with a melody in his head and work it out on his guitar spent four years learning to breathe well enough so he could hold a short conversation and sing a few notes.

Happily, he had hung onto the copyrights from most of his songs, so he could afford rehabilitation and as comfortable a life as possible.

He accepted a string of honors through the '90s and released a new album in 1997, though he admitted his life was "hard, very hard." He died on Dec. 26, 1999, age 57.

The morning after the accident, Markowitz called it "a terrible tragedy" and said the collapse was caused by "a freakish gust of wind" that no one could have foreseen.

At the next show, held on schedule the following week, the whole crowd was asked to sign a huge get-well card.

At the start of the next season, Markowitz announced that the continuing popularity of the series and the tragedy of Curtis Mayfield left no doubt that Brooklyn needed a first-class outdoor concert facility.

Where is the article about Markowitz in the Post, what date again and page?

Posted by Theaterat for Phil Phil.I would like to share a Kings memory with the viewers. I DO agree, the magnificent Loews Kings is worth saving and I applaud all those who are working to that end.I remember in early `59{ possibly January} the great film version of Jules Verne`s "Around The World in 80 Days" was playing at the Kings. Back then, if a film was popular, it would be re-released. Any way, it was a Sunday afternoon. My father- a Jules Verne and movie fan like me asked me it I wantes to go. I said "yes' and we drove to the Kings in the family`s ~52 Cadillac. I never was at the Kings before, so my father told me it is like going to a palace and a museum rolled in one. He was right! The whole place just blew mw away!No need to describe it again, but I never will forget the men`s room with its richly decorated wood paneling and art work and the forest of columns in the lobby. I remember sitting center stage in the first row of the balcony in the Smoking Section. Remember them? I am not sure if the movie was presented in Todd A_O or widescreen, but it did not matter.I was so mesmerized by the movie and the great theater that was showing it that I just sat there in rapt attention.Since then, I have seen other epics at other theaters, but on that very cold Sunday way back then, I realized that this was what movie going was all about.About 9 years later, in early 68 it was re-released for the last time before going to TV. I did see it at the Alpine, but the experience was not the same.My friend Theaterat tells me that the Loews Jersey is in the Kings tradition, but I have yet to see it.Will try to go in the near future.Posted by Theaterat for PhilPhil

Well; PhilPhil
We need the fans

Did anybody miss me? Where have I been? Well, I misplaced my password and without it, I did not have access to this site. Sure, I could go on, but I could not post a note. As far as writing to management, that did no good. They never answered any of my pleas.

Enough said! Unfortunately, the NYC Economic Development Corporation has delayed and delayed issuing that RFP (Request For Proposal) and there seems to be no progress on the Loew's Kings. If they issue the proposal and if a real estate developer sees the value of this Cathedral of the Ornate, then hopefully it will be restored and reopened as the Kings County Center for the Performing Arts. Of course, it could be demolished to make way for a shopping mall.

Has anybody written to the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz to express their support for his efforts to Save The Kings?

Kings is my new name, it's the same old Bruce II

Gustavelifting and any others wishing to get together for a meeting on how to Save The Kings, please contact me at thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
Kings

Again, sorry for the long delay in arranging this meeting, but I could not get onto this site.

Give me a break. Anyone who has actually been inside the Kings or even in the area knows its past its prime. The community and government are not behind it and that's just the start. I love vintage theaters just as much as the next guy, but I do have my priorities.

Just let it have the peaceful death it deserves.

Jack,
When you looked inside the Kings, you may have found it beyond it's prime. However, if you have looked inside other old theaters, you would have found similar conditions. For instance, look at Disney's New Amsterdam. That was a wreck but look at it now! Look at the Chicago, the Detroit Fox and others. When you talk about the neighborhood, why not look at all the national chains that have discovered Flatbush Avenue (surrounding the Kings) Staples, Old Navy, Stop and Shop, Ashley Stuart, Foot Locker, CVS, Rite Aid, Lucille Roberts, Canal Jeans, etc. Not to mention the continuing presence of Sear's. Could all these stores be wrong about the resurgence of the neighborhood.

The neighborhood has stabilized, business is booming but there is no movie theater and there is certainly no live house for concerts, etc. As far as 'no government support', the Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz totally agrees with my plan for a live theater with a multiplex, shopping and a botique hotel built on the air rights of the theater.

So give me a break and don't be so negative!

Sad to say, it would not be a "peaceful death." Derelect buildings typically stand until some part of them falls onto a public way or neighboring property and someone complains or is injured. Once the media gets wind of such, the city will move rapidly to bring in the wreckers to forestall a law suit. If such happens, the language will NOT be for its nostalgic past, but 'How can responsible city fathers allow such a menace to the public to stand for so long?!!' There will then be a round of denials and finger pointing and a scramble as the politicians leave town on "vacation" or claim that that they never noticed the vacant hulk was standing there (since 1980s). There will then be a loud call for all such "useless" old theatres to be found amd razed and that a commission will be formed to look into the matter forthwith! Any words then from us 'theatre nuts' will be sneared at, and sites like this will get messages of outrage as to 'How could we not alert those responsible as to this danger!' No, it will not be a 'peaceful death.'

Lest anyone misconstrue my words above, I will append this ending: So let it be that concerned citizens will band together to never let such an end occur, but to instead to restore this once theatrical jewel.

Save the Kings!

Anybody interested in having a meeting, contact me 'Kings' or Bruce at thats.brookln@verizon.net

Anybody interested in having a meeting, contact me 'Kings' or Bruce at thats.brookln@verizon.net

Kings et all... thanks for your thoughts. I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic. I've worked at theaters before and have seen my fair share of "goods," "bads," and "uglies". The Kings somehow falls between the latter two. If it weren't for the fact that it's a Loews, it'd be ugly.

The New Amsterdam theater was a moderately large (1700) seat theater that had been taken care of and was in the heart of Times Square-- factors that were clearly in its favor.

The Kings has roof damage that would cost easily over half a million dollars to repair and is a 3600 seat behemoth. Also, despite what you say, is NOT in a good part of town. I've lived there on weekends for three years now and can tell you that it only takes a block or two of distance from the main stretch before you get in to some dicey areas. There's a reason that Streisand, Stallone and Winkler aren't returning to their roots-- would you if you saw what a mess your old neighborhood has become?

Let me ask those of you ready to "save" it this--
(1) Have you actually been inside of the theater? Just the lobby doesn't count.

(2) Have you written down your business plan? How many meetings have there been so far? You've been discussing this for three years now and there still isn't any "Friends of the Loews" yet. In that time, the stage roof has pretty much crumbled, opening it to the elements, and plaster-work has been damaged beyond repair.

It is true that you could bring it back to its former glory-- for an estimate for 2 to 3 million dollars, and then do you realize how much you'll have to spend in heating and electricity? What could you possibly run in that area that would attract customers? Running a hip-hop concert would be fine, but don't you know of the vandalism those shows bring in? Don't expect the yuppies from Manhattan to come out. Even if the neighborhood was still good, the stigma of that part of Brooklyn is so heavy that most people shudder at the thought of even leaving Manhattan.

If you're going to put time and energy into something, do it right and make sure it's a good cause. The Loews Paradise is about the best example of it being done right (or almost right) that I can think of-- visit the theater sometime and you'll see what I mean. The guy that put money into that place (private, not a public group) went bankrupt before he finished it! And while a private venture will always have the privileges that public groups don't offer, the St. George theater is a nightmare of private ownership, so there is always the other side of the spectrum.

Loews Jersey has been so handicapped by its own politics that I foresee that it will NEVER get fully restored. The same goes for most of the groups that go on a vigilante "save the whatever" kick without even realizing what they're inheriting, first.

You think Marty Markowitz and Donald Trump are going to make it all happen? Think again. Markowitz would sell you his mother to get a vote, so don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Last time I checked, Trump wasn't buying up theaters in Brooklyn to save his life.

I wish you all the luck you can get, but please consider what I've said. It's nice to be romantic and an armchair preservationist (which all of you "Save the Kings" guys are at this point), but realism and actually doing something is what counts, and let's put it this way: in the last three years I've been following this, nothing has happened.

Kings et all... thanks for your thoughts. I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic. I've worked at theaters before and have seen my fair share of "goods," "bads," and "uglies". The Kings somehow falls between the latter two. If it weren't for the fact that it's a Loews, it'd be ugly.

The New Amsterdam theater was a moderately large (1700) seat theater that had been taken care of and was in the heart of Times Square-- factors that were clearly in its favor.

The Kings has roof damage that would cost easily over half a million dollars to repair and is a 3600 seat behemoth. Also, despite what you say, is NOT in a good part of town. I've lived there on weekends for three years now and can tell you that it only takes a block or two of distance from the main stretch before you get in to some dicey areas. There's a reason that Streisand, Stallone and Winkler aren't returning to their roots-- would you if you saw what a mess your old neighborhood has become?

Let me ask those of you ready to "save" it this--
(1) Have you actually been inside of the theater? Just the lobby doesn't count.

(2) Have you written down your business plan? How many meetings have there been so far? You've been discussing this for three years now and there still isn't any "Friends of the Loews" yet. In that time, the stage roof has pretty much crumbled, opening it to the elements, and plaster-work has been damaged beyond repair.

It is true that you could bring it back to its former glory-- for an estimate for 2 to 3 million dollars, and then do you realize how much you'll have to spend in heating and electricity? What could you possibly run in that area that would attract customers? Running a hip-hop concert would be fine, but don't you know of the vandalism those shows bring in? Don't expect the yuppies from Manhattan to come out. Even if the neighborhood was still good, the stigma of that part of Brooklyn is so heavy that most people shudder at the thought of even leaving Manhattan.

If you're going to put time and energy into something, do it right and make sure it's a good cause. The Loews Paradise is about the best example of it being done right (or almost right) that I can think of-- visit the theater sometime and you'll see what I mean. The guy that put money into that place (private, not a public group) went bankrupt before he finished it! And while a private venture will always have the privileges that public groups don't offer, the St. George theater is a nightmare of private ownership, so there is always the other side of the spectrum.

Loews Jersey has been so handicapped by its own politics that I foresee that it will NEVER get fully restored. The same goes for most of the groups that go on a vigilante "save the whatever" kick without even realizing what they're inheriting, first.

You think Marty Markowitz and Donald Trump are going to make it all happen? Think again. Markowitz would sell you his mother to get a vote, so don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Last time I checked, Trump wasn't buying up theaters in Brooklyn to save his life.

I wish you all the luck you can get, but please consider what I've said. It's nice to be romantic and an armchair preservationist, but realism and actually doing something is what counts, and let's put it this way: in the last three years I've been following this, nothing has happened.

Dude: the New Amsterdam, as I understand it, was not well taken care of. For whatever it's worth I've heard it was about as trashed as you describe the Kings when they got started.

I think the Kings could rise again. But I think it requires a person (or people) with vision and drive. You have to get people excited about the place, raise funds, and come up with a multi-functional plan (like the Orpheum in Madison, WI...they have movies, concerts, a restaurant in the lobby, private rentals for parties and ceremonies...and they seem to be making it). You have to make people understand how cool it is that there are generations of memories in the place, and that it should continue...like some European structure that has been standing for hundreds of years. If it can't be completely restored, a redevelopment plan like the one used at the Tivoli in Washington D.C. would be an option.

That being said, I agree with you about what has taken place so far. All I see is a bunch of people talking and that is not going to cut it. I think this Gustav guy put up a little web site. But it's basic HTML and isn't going to do anything by itself. I suggested months ago that a 501(c)(3) be formed and the idea was met with resistance. If nobody is willing to take that basic step (which is work, I admit...but is not that big a deal...I know someone who set up a 501(c)(3) theatre company) then I don't see how the people having this conversation are ever going to accomplish the sizable tasks mentioned in the paragraph above. I can see the comments coming now: why don't YOU do something? I would love to. But my volunteer efforts are currently devoted to my high school alumni association. I am an officer, it is a ton of work, and I can't just walk away.

Not trying to beat you up fellas. But I don't think being nice is going to help. You need to get your act together and start taking action if you expect to have a chance of saving this place. Otherwise, eventually, another redevelopment plan like the multiplex thing will come along. This time it will succeed...and that will be the end of it. The place will be torn apart.

If you are afraid of failure, you should get over it. Embrace the possibilty of failure. There is no better teacher.

Yeah, except the New Amsterdam had a multi-million dollar corporation behind it, which the Kings doesn't.

How can you get excited over getting mugged, eh?

The city owns the property, so until such time as they want to move on the matter, forming a not-for-profit would serve little purpose. At its most noble vision, a politician, such as the borough president, works to implement what his constitutents want, but in reality the works of politicians are not so noble. It will require of those wishing to save the KINGS, someone on the political 'inside' who can find out the real attitude of the politicos, contrary to whatever they may be saying 'for public consumption' as the saying goes.

Obviously, the theatre is not high on the politicos' list of problems, especially since (unlike Disney and the NEW AMSTERDAM) there does not appear to be any big money in the background. Yes, folks, the KINGS will never return to showing movies, so you have to interest a developer with BIG BUCKS or DEEP, DEEP POCKETS to become interested in order for there to be any realistic hope of renewal. That athlete who wanted to subdivide the place realized that even his pockets were not deep enough to withstand the tens of millions this job would require before a penny is received as income. In this country, without an assured high return on investment, 99.9% of would-be investors will back off. Disney did it for image in Manhattan, not the blue collar suburb that Brooklyn is perceived to be. What Brooklyn-based entity is willing to take the risk here in their own backyard? Even the tax-free Jehovah's Witnesses with their HQ in Brooklyn did not take on the KINGS (assuming the borough would have let them). They had to go to Jersey City to the former STANLEY (which is about 2000 seats smaller than the KINGS). Does this say something about Brooklyn politics? Are other entities scared off of getting involved with the politicians there? If so, and given the ownership, we could all be wasting our time on a noble, but lost cause. Maybe those in the area should turn their efforts toward the former BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT, and try to encourage LIU to restore it as a showcase of some sort, though I don't know how they would turn a profit on it.

The Stanley in Jersey City (beautifully restored, but somewhat altered) has 4332 seats, and the Kings has 3676.

Trust me on this: I spent 10 years of my life (and thousands of hard-working hours) helping to save and re-open Loew's Jersey.

It ain't easy folks...

The Jehovah's Witnesses did NOT have to "go to Jersey City to the former Stanley." In Flatbush, they took over the Albemarle Theatre, which is near the Kings, and did a magnificent job of refurbishing it.

Jim--The Jehovah's Witnesses already have the huge former Albemarle Theatre on Flatbush Ave. It's unlikely they would need a second theater within such a short distance.

I stand corrected as to the relative seating capacity and proximity to the "huge" former ALBEMARLE. I stand by my observations, but as Bob so well puts it: "It ain't easy folks."

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

Kings, you've just got that button on your mouse fixed. One of the first signs of its impending doom is multiple 'clicks' which result in multiple posts such as above, in case you were wondering.

I don't feel Jack was trying to be negative in his post; he was merely being honest and realistic. Nobody loves old theaters as much as I do. I put a HUGE chunk of my life into saving and fixing the Loew's Jersey to get it to the point where it is now. (Some pretty choice years too, from age 30 to 40. I was there nearly every Saturday, and many many more days and nights. I've got the physical scars to prove it!) But I finally had to walk away from that project because of the games and politics. I accomplished what I set out to do - they CAN run 35mm film again, but I grew tired of all the nonsense.

To make a difference in saving these great showplaces, you have to be willing to commit a great deal of time. You can't just sit at your computer and be an armchair preservationist. You might feel better about it as if you’re making a difference in saving the place, but that’s about it.

As a theatre, the Albemarle had about 2,600 seats, which would be described as "medium-sized" rather than "huge," but apparently sufficient for JW's purposes.

Kings,

There's a sucker born every minute. If you can get someone to dump the amount of money needed to fix the theater (ie. a LOT), go for it-- I'll even donate some good, working 35mm projectors to the place if you get it up and running. Hell, I'll even run them.

But, as has been previously stated, nothing has been done so far. When you get to that step, give me a ring.

To: Bob Furmanek
Several months ago I thought that this message board was only for nostalgia buffs. It seemed to appeal to people who want to see a theater restored but never took the concept forward. Now it seems there are people who are also living in the present, but fall victim to the games and politics or those who don't think it's possible. So far I haven't heard from anybody who wants to have a meeting.

I visited the Loew's Jersey while it was still going through renovation and frankly found it's decor a little overwhelming. Maybe I'm prejudice but the Loew's Kings is classy, it's not overdone.

Forming a 501(c)(3) is not an empty act. The funds you collect from people might not eventually be used to directly work on the theatre. Maybe you will find a large investor for that. But you can hold yourself out as a legitimate organization and use the funds to put on events and cover expenses for other worthy project-related endeavours (like flying to another city to talk with a potential donor). I might send you a donation. But I am not going to make a check out to Bruce the Loew's Kings Guy.

Hang On For Dear Life,
Thanks for the advice, but what I would really like is a face to face with you and other interested people. Maybe a meeting is a good idea?

Well: I don't live in the area, and I won't have any volunteer time to contribute for at least another year, and (just to drive the point home) I don't feel comfortable donating to an organization that doesn't have official status (even the dreamers and charlatans of movie palace renovation accomplish this). But if you feel like there is a reason to talk on the phone for a few minutes, give me an email address. I will contact you to set something up.

Dear Life,
I understand the fact that you don't live in the New York area, making it impossible to meet in person, but I am not asking anyone for money. I have been trying in different ways (contacting real estate developers; contacting theater operators, contacting live concert promoters, etc.) but I have never once asked anyone for money.

Where do you live and is there a local theater that appeals to you?

I live a ways outside Chicago. Some stories I watch in this part of the country are: the Uptown, Ramova, Patio, Gateway, Arcada, Catlow, and New Regal (all actually in Chicago).

Have you really been doing all that stuff? I am impressed.

Yes, I've done all that stuff, but somehow the theater remains closed. Maybe that's because the city owns the building and doesn't know how to market it? Maybe it's because the surrounding area has decayed and had a crime problem. Now is definitely improving) Almost directly behind the theater is one of the most successful Sear's stores with a large parking lot. Along side the Kings is a mini-mall with Stop & Shop Supermarket; Old Navy, Staples, Marshall's and off the corner is a Foot Locker. And behind and to the left of theater is additional 750 car park lot--city owned lot that is long term lease by the owner of the mini-mall. He is a major major developer in Brooklyn, but plays things close to the vest. Loew's Kings can certainly be a Center for the Performing Arts and draw its audiences -- that travel a distance.

The original theater held 3,600 people, but was reduced to 3,192 in the sixties. (Still a commanding space!) The main design elements are the Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

You didn't mention The Chicago Theater. I even had conversations with him about a space in Brooklyn! (The original architects for the Kings also built this house)

Greetings, Bruce and all friends of the Kings! I've been reading over this long, long message board and I think I can see what we really need is a live meeting, as soon as possible. Let's call it for next week at the Grand Army Plaza Library or something. Even if only 3 or 4 people show it would be a much better start than this slow-motion message board.

Hey Brooklynite, that's a great idea! Let's try to set a day and date. thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
Bruce (Kings)

so has any one said what subway line and station is close to this theatre?

To: Brooklynite, Gustav and all others wanting to have our first meeting:
Flatbush Avenue Bus, Church Avenue BMT (nice walk) Nostrand Avenue Subway. I'm sorry I really don't know the correct names or lines for public transportation. Although we could meet at my house and from here, drive over to the theater.

To: hdtv267
I live right near the 15th Street-Prospect Park station of the F Train.

is that the one closest to the theater and shopping centre?

Thanks. I'm just looking to check the theatre out myself I'll be in the city on Saturday (4/1)

Yes, there is shopping and then the Pavilion Theater. It's a digital cinema where satellite dishes bring the movie to the audience.

OK, I've called up the Flatbush library at 22 Linden Boulevard, which is pretty near the theater. Anyone using public transit could reach the library by a short walk from the Parkside Aventue stop on the Q; we could have a meeting there, and then stroll down Flatbush to the theater if that's called for. If I go in tomorrow we can probably get a reservation for sometime in the late-morning-early-afternoon of Saturday, April 8 (the meeting rooms aren't open Sunday). Is that a good time for the folks here? Bruce, in your experience with this issue since 1987, are there other people you would invite? Because I was thinking, if it's gonna be less than five people, it's might not worth formally reserving a room...

I'll gladly show up at said meeting. At the very least, we can all get informed about what would need to be done with the theater at all.

Brooklynite: Thanks for all the extra effort! Saturday, April 8th is fine with me and I can certainly talk about the neighborhood, all the new shopping, all the old theaters and the possibilities for renewal...

Afterwards, our group can go back to my house to watch 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace'.

Many of the people interested in the Kings are not necessarily NYC residents, so I'm really not sure who might be interested or not. Let's hope for a small, but enthusiastic group.

To: Jonah Jonah Jonah
For some strange reason, I can't send email to you! So here's my reply:
Hi Jonah!
Thanks for writing. I don't know whether you saw the recent post by Brooklynite, but we are trying to set up a meeting for April 8th at the Flatbush Branch of the NYC Public Library. The meeting will start there and proceed down Flatbush Avenue to the Loew's Kings. Afterwards everyone is invited back to my house for a viewing of 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' a filmed documentary made in 1979-1980. It shows off the architecture and contains interviews with various theater personnel.

What can you do to help? Come to our meeting. Further details to follow

Finally, there seems to be something actually happening re. the Kings! Please let us{me} know a time and where to meet on Sat 4-8, and I definately will be there!Will be checking these posts all week to find out. Thanks!

Hey Theaterat (et al),

It's great to see that you're available for Saturday. I've been holding off a bit on reserving a room at the Flatbush library till things were a little firmed up, but I guess I'll go in tomorrow and just do it provisionally. The thing is, the library closes at 3:00, and the latest meeting room appointment we could possibly get would end at 2:30. Now please tell me if that's really too early for you, in which case we'll definitely change plans; at this point, our effort cannot afford to leave out a single person. If the library is a no-go for you, I'll canvas for an affordable local restaurant where we could reasonably hold a meeting.

In the meantime, everyone please try to prepare for the meeting by organizing your ideas and whatever special experience you may have, and maybe getting something down on paper to distribute. Try to think small: outreach is probably the best thing we can hope for in the short term.

And if anyone else reading this board is considering coming to our inaugural meeting on Saturday, please speak up now so whatever concerns you may have can be addressed as well. Thanks, all.

Brooklynite:
There's nothing wrong with meeting at the library and then walking down to the theater, but another possibility is to meet at my house, have the meeting then watch 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace. then we could take a ride over to Flatbush Avenue.

Brooklynite, RE the meeting. I m off on Saturdays, so any time is ok for me.Looking foward to it.

Who else is interested? Let's meet, talk things out and come up with a plan!!

Go get 'em Bruce. I believe there is a solution. I KNOW that enthusiastic, intelligent people can accomplish amazing things when they band together and stick with something.

Brooklynite and others: Our meeting is coming up soon, who else is interested??

Update:

OK, I've just filed for a 12:00-2:30 meeting Saturday at the Flatbush Library at 22 Linden Blvd off of Flatbush Ave. I should know for tomorrow whether we've been approved for the big meeting room, but even if we're not I think they will find us some accomodation in a quiet corner or side office.

Everyone please encourage interested folks you know to attend; the room has capacity for 75!

So, big room or no, let's make it for noon Saturday April 8 at the Flatbush library.

BTW, on the after-meeting walk down Flatbush to the theater, those not familiar with the neighborhood should get quite an enlightening illustration of the evolution of the area from a quiet Dutch village to a burgeoning Caribbean commercial district.

Brooklynite: Thanks for setting things up, I await final details.

OK, we've been approved for the big room, and I've submittted a story for the front page of this site, which runs as follows:

BROOKLYN, NY - A meeting to organize a movement to revitalize the historic Loew's Kings movie palace will be held at noon Saturday, April 8 in a 75-person auditorium at the Flatbush Library at 22 Linden Blvd by Flatbush Avenue, easily accessible by subway. The discussion will be highlighted by Bruce Friedman, who will discuss his tireless efforts toward the preservation of the theater since 1987, and the hope to preserve it through transformation to a singularly grand performing arts space to serve the diverse Flatbush community. The meeting will include a showing of at least parts of 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace', a touching documentary filmed in the last days of the 3,000+ seat theater's operation. But most important, we will be there to exchange our ideas on how to revitalize this grand theater for the modern community of Brooklyn, starting with small artistic outreach efforts.

The formal meeting will conclude at 2:30, at which point we will take a group stroll down commercially bustling Flatbush Avenue to visit the boarded-up palace in person, on the way passing by several other ancient landmarks at the heart of this historic street. There may also be a small concluding meeting at Mr. Friedman’s nearby home, conditions permitting.

Hopefully the moderator will put it up soon. I hope you don't mind, Bruce, that I've sort-of-committed-you to bringing the 'Memoirs of a Movie Theater' tape along, when I heard that a TV and VCR would be available at the library. How much of the film we show there will I guess depend on the progress of the meeting.

Now that the details are finalized, I hope we can all try to forward the message by phone, e-mail and message board to any theater, arts, and community groups and persons we know of that would be interested. Oh and if anyone else reading this is coming, it would be great if you RSVP'd here, though of course it's not necessary.

Brooklynite: Thank you for arranging this meeting! Honestly, I have tried so hard and tried so long that it's a real shot in the arm that other people want to join in the fight to Save The Kings. Maybe an organized effort can accomplish more than I have been able to do myself.

Brooklynite... Excellent! I am willing to do my part no matter how small or large that effort may be. See you on Saturday!

Our meeting is scheduled for 12 Noon today, let's have a really good showing! 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' will be shown and the discussion will center on how we can best motivate the money people to save this theater and how nostalgia could be the driving force for progress.

For those who couldn't come, I am glad to report our somewhat hastily-arranged first meeting as a success. We attracted five dedicated individuals from across Brooklyn, just from the notice on Cinema Treasures. With better weather (it was a downpour Saturday) and more outreach through and beyond the theater preservation community, I trust our small group will grow will futute meetings and events.

To be notified of future events, email me at flatbush AT gmail.com

We have just started a working mailing list if you want to join that, and we should have our own fabulous website soon, which should prove a better center for our activity online than just using the Cinema Treasures forum.

What does the McCarren Park Pool and the Loew's Kings have in common? McCarren is the last of the Robert Moses built pools not to have had a makeover, just like the Loew's Kings is the last of the Loew's Wonder Theaters that could be restored. The NYC Parks Department made an arrangment with Ron Delsener Productions to hold a series of 10 concerts at McCarren. Delsener came with me to the Loew's Kings--(a few years ago) and liked what he saw, but said that I should get a real estate developer to restore the place and then he would book concerts!

The Loew's 175th Street is now Reverend Ike's Church, sometimes used for commercial concerts. The Loew's Valencia was restored as a church while the Loew's Jersey was restored for various events.

So how about the Kings??

The Valencia and 175th Street were still in good condition when churches took over. The Kings is in such pathetic shape that I doubt that any church could afford to even repair it, let alone restore it.

Dear Warren,
What would you suggest the present owner (NYC) do with this PATHETIC theatre? Maybe you belong on a SHOPPING MALL web site? Sorry to be so harsh, but would you just give up?

:(

OK, let's calm down... this is not Crossfire. I'm pretty sure we all want the same end here.

By the way, if anyone has any web experience to help with a website for the new 'Save The Kings', please-mail me. Thanks.

I'm not advocating the demolition of the Kings, I'm just trying to be realistic. Its current physical condition seems FAR beyond the financial reach of any church to repair. Perhaps the city could be sued for being derelict in maintaining the building and permitting it to deteriorate, but I don't know who would do the suing.

SAVE THE KINGS!!!!

(foaming at the mouth)

In all seriousness, Warren is right. There is no church that could or would want to save the Kings. If anyone is going to do it, it has to be a group that can raise the money, or a private investor (which I don't see happening).

Sorry I was unable to attend the meeting Saturday-- I was caught ill this weekend.

Does anyone have an outline of what was said or proposed at this meeting?

I too was unable to come but would like to get involved.

Well, when Trumpism is finally declared a religion, I suppose that it could be converted into St. Donald's Basilica.

We discussed a number of topics at the meeting, including Bruce's efforts to interest developers over the years, ways to raise awareness in the local community (which is largely Caribbean and came to the area after the theater had closed down), as well as cultural outreach, including to Brooklyn's large artist community.

The rub of development is that the theater probably cannot financially sustain itself on its own terms, but that if a developer is given rights to build on a large scale on the surrounding lots, and below and possibly above the theater itself, then the prospects become much better.

We also discussed the feasability of a museum-type installation, including the possibility that we could get permission from the city to use one of the otherwise-abandoned side storefronts for outreach.

If you want to get directly involved, we should really discuss these things on our 'Save the Kings' mailing list with organized threads etc., not here with this single ridiculously long column going back to 2001. E-mail me at Flatbush AT gmail.com and I'll put you on the list.

Warren: A church is one possibility, but that would only please the parishiners. A theater would be open to everyone. At the meeting, Brooklynite said that he had seen workers carting out what he thought were chunks of concrete. More than likely they were chunks of plaster that had collected after falling from the balcony facings. More than likely they are chunks that had fallen quite a while ago and the fact that they are being hauled away may mean that the city is getting ready for real estate developers to tour the theater.

So our job is to seek out real estate developers and make them aware of the possibilities that the theater holds.

Actually, when I went back later I realized my mistake, that the workers were actually carting debris from the adjoining building, and unfortunately not doing work on the Kings.

I guess new work toward restoration will have to be paved by our new efforts at activism. See my post above.

Well, I will go into more detail on the started mailing list, but I would say before you do anything else, a better idea than to "plan" is to talk to people who have actually done work in the other five Wonder Loews. For example, you're aware that the plasterwork's original molds exist, yes?

What was proposed as the usage of the theater? Concerts? What kind? You'll either have few people come to oldies shows or you can have a lot of people that damage the theater with the hip-hop concerts.

Did anyone take notes of exactly what was said at the meeting? Like a full minutes readout?

Jack's idea of contacting people who have actually done work in the other Wonder theaters is a good one. Although it's impossible to get input from the people that restored the Loew's Paradise as they are involved in a lawsuit against the present owner. Also, I am pretty sure that much of the work at Loew's Jersey was volunteer work. As far as the church work at the Valencia and Rev. Ike's church was also done by the congregation. Maybe Jack or some others can research this information with a few phone calls?

Quote Jack Theakston above: "For example, you're aware that the plasterwork's original molds exist, yes?" Is this a question or a statement? For original plaster molds to exist at this late date would be a rarity indeed, and a situation much to be hoped for!

To my knowledge no such molds exist, but I do know that if you have 'like' designs elsewhere in the theater, they could be replicated. Thus creating new molds!

Though it would be wonderful if the original plaster molds existed, the lack of them wouldn't be a problem to restoration. At the Paradise, missing ornaments were reproduced from the plaster that still remained in place. Even if the plaster is completely missing it can be reproduced from photographs. At the Elgin Theatre in Toronto the proscenium and box seats were destroyed to make way for Cinerama, and when the theatre was restored for use as a legitimate playhouse the boxes and proscenium were replicated. You would never know that they were new if you hadn't been told.

Bear in mind that restoration of the Elgin and Winter Garden theatres was done under the auspices of the Ontario government and had the seemingly bottomless pockets of the provincial government to draw from. As well they had the original Thomas Lamb plans for both theatres. To date the Kings has no such benefactor to fund any restoration efforts and I believe that replacement of the ornamental plaster will be way down the list of necessary things to be done immediately. The major hurdle will be to reopen the theatre at all.

Also bear in mind that the Elgin and Winter Garden are in the heart of the city of Toronto, while the Kings is in the boondocks of Brooklyn and about 45 minutes by subway from the center of NYC's cultural activities. The King's only hope for survival as a theatre seems to be as a project that would serve Flatbush and its surrounding communities. Even when the Kings was showing movies, those were pretty much the boundaries of its patronage. Large numbers of people did not attend the Kings from elsewhere.

Sheesh! Do you guys wake up and take negativity pills for breakfast or what? All I was saying is that it's possible to replace missing plaster ornamentation. Do y'all wait in the wings with buckets of cold water?

Sheesh! Do you guys wake up and take negativity pills for breakfast or what? All I was saying is that it's possible to replace missing plaster ornamentation. Also, doesn't the phrase "boondocks of Brooklyn" seem like an oxymoron? It's the same as saying the boondocks of America's largest city.

Sam, for what it's worth, the roof and the plaster-work are priority on ANY theater's agenda of things to be restored. If plaster-work crumbles and falls on an audience, that's a major liability.

Kings, the original plaster molds DO exist for all of the Loews theaters. The company that made them in the first place still exists and the whole point of keeping them was for the theaters that needed repair-work to easily just replace parts. That's how the Paradise (which had totally unrepairable plaster-work) was saved.

Ziggy, cold water is always necessary for these projects. Apparently there are people going into this that don't have realistic visions of what needs to or can be done. They're not professionals, simply volunteers. Look at Loew's Jersey and what it could be. Look at Loews Paradise and what it is. That's the difference between volunteers and professionals doing work.

Currently, there's not even a legitimate organization set up here, and it's still at the volunteer level. So in my opinion, all of the ice water should be thrown on this project as possible going into it, so that when you get hit, it's not going to hurt as badly.

Is there a legitimate list right now? Or is it just someone CCing everyone? Can we set something up on Yahoo! or Google groups perhaps, or some similar list server? In this way, archival of messages can be easily accessed and read by the general public interested in the project.

In my own personal opinion, I feel the Kings is unsavable/not worth it. But I will gladly give my time and effort to those who are serious and can actually get something done. If this is just going to be an armchair, grass-roots committee of five who don't get anything done, count me out.

So let's get some stuff done, eh!?

Enough cold water. Anybody that can throw cold water need not apply. However, if once we start to get things done and you want to jump aboard, you're welcome.

Ok, Kings. If you want to live in dreams, that's fine, but if you live in reality, you take the bad with the good. The whole analogy behind "cold water" is that it's a wake up call to what really needs to be done.

But, in the real world, there are also real people with real solutions to problems that you can and will face if you go into this head first. For example, you yourself were not aware that the original molds for the Kings still exist. That's the difference between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars.

There are some pictures of the Kings interior that were taken in 2001, at http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php .The pics are halfway down the page. It really doesn't look all that bad to me.

I just viewed those pictures from 2001. I also expected much more visible damage after reading some of the posts. Maybe there really is hope!

I think if you guys are going to succeed that you will need both:

enthusiasm and someone around to throw cold water when necessary.

That being said, I don't understand your resistance to forming a legal entity Bruce. It isn't that big of a deal and will legitimize your efforts.

R,H.,
Don't worry, a few of the people on here said the Paradise would never open again, but it did, and even if the venture fails, it is ready for another...people seem to paint the picture a little too bleak for the Kings...unless the theater has developed new leaks, the roof had been fixed in 1994......stage left has developed a new leak meanwhile, which you can see in the pics on the website that I posted...all is not hopeless

Wouldn't it be great if we could get another Richard De Cezare to take an interest in the Loew's Kings? He's the guy that put all that money into the Paradise, before getting the shaft. I just called and got: 'This number has been temporarily disconnected.' I had no other way of reaching him!

Only a major real estate developer might have the vision we need, only a major real estate developer would have the money this project will take. So any member of our group or independent should try to contact a developer and get and hold their interest.

Looking forward to the next meeting
Bruce KINGS

A very big part of our early support for saving the Jersey came from the local community. Friends of the Loew's volunteers took to the streets to raise awareness of this hidden jewel in their neighborhood; we went to street fairs, met with city council members and built support for saving the theater. We handed out flyers to the thousands of commuters traveling through the Path transportation center across the street. We were very visible, and VERY proactive. We arranged (with much difficulty and opposition from the developer who intended to demolish the building) to open the theater and present shows in the lobby, even though the building had no heat, running water and limited electricity. We met with, and ultimately convinced journalists to write about this fabulous movie palace in their respective newspapers. We contacted and received support from the arts and entertainment communities.

In short, the effort to save the Jersey took years and thousands of volunteer hours.

Support from the local citizens and politicians is crucial for such an undertaking. Does anyone living in the King's neighborhood have any concept of this building, or (like the RKO Keith's in Flushing) do they see it has a huge, bulky eyesore that would look much better as condos or retail space?

Have any of these outreach projects been attempted at the Kings over the last 20 years? If not - why?

Dear Bob,
You're ideas are good, but as a one man operation most were not possible. Hope we will see you at our next meeting.

Dear Kings,

I had planned on attending your initial meeting, but a nasty flu kept me in bed throughout most of the weekend.

As much as I would like to assist your endeavor, I'm afraid that helping to save one movie palace was enough for me. It took enough time out of my life, and now I'm more interested in spending my free time with friends and loved ones.

But it should be done, and every person interested in these great structures should try to save and restore at least one. It will be an interesting experience, and you'll certainly feel better for doing it.

Bob

Dear Bob,
Thanks for responding! From what you've said you put in a lot of time getting the Loew's Jersey back in business. What I would hope is that you could attend a meeting and put us on the right track. Please give the Loew's Kings a chance!
Bruce (KINGS)

Dear Bruce,

If I can, I certainly will. But all of the things which I outlined in my post of April 12 should be done.

I put ten years of volunteer work into the Jersey, giving up much of my free time during those years. It was an unbelievable amount of hard work. While I'd like to have that time back, I don't regret it because the theater was saved and will eventually be restored. But I don't like the way it ended for me, and I don't like politics.

Have you reached out to the community yet, and what is their opinion of the theater? Do the locals understand, or care about this once grand showplace?

Bob

Bob Furmanek,et all,Even though several proposals have been kicked around, the important thing is a group has already been formed. We all know that it will not be easy, but to let this theater die or quietly rot away just will not do. The Kings does have potential and we are just trying to figure out who we can shoot ideas to and to get some sort of response.God only knows what the inside looks like after years of being closed, but I`ll wager that it probably can be rehabilitated.Prehaps your years at the Jersey can help us out somewhat.And I`m pretty sure that Jersey City politics are not too different from NY{ or in this case Brooklyn } politics. Regardless of your party affiliation, the whole thing is about Money, power and Money.If Manhattan can have countless theaters and " cultural centers" why not Brooklyn?

Can the Loew's Kings rise again as a local theater or might it become a regional destination? If the only subdivision is to the air rights, then this once grand vaudeville/movie house can rise to the occasion and take it's place as one of the most beautiful theaters in any direction. Remember the Loew's Kings was patterned after the Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

When you look at other Brooklyn neighborhoods like Downtown Brooklyn, Williamsburg and Coney Island, it's easy to see how gentrification can change everything. Flatbush, home to our favorite - theater has been on the UP SWING for a number of years and there is no entertainment/retail center. There is no place where the locals and the regionals can go. Yes, there's Brooklyn Academy of Music and Brooklyn College, but they only serve a portion of the public.

Regarding the closing date of the Loew's Kings. I'm certain it was 1974, not 1977 or 1979. I graduated High School in June, 1974 from the Loew's Kings. The movie on the marquee that day was "The Great Gatsby", the last film ever to play there. I'm sure the theater closed up later that summer. Flatbush Avenue was in horrible shape by 1974, the surrounding neighborhood was in a steep decline. The area west of Ocean Avenue contained those large beautiful homes, but the homeowners were under siege for years with burglaries and robberies. The area has come back a bit but has a long way to go. Is the Loew's Kings really a salvagable structure in 2006, 32 years after it shut it's doors?

You've got me! I have read about the theater's past and talked to informed sources and they all agree that it was 1978-1979. Perhaps it closed and then reopened? I know that Loew's sold and another company took over for a year. I also knew people at the Flatbush Development Corp. who took over custodial duties from the NYC Economic Development Corp, the present owner and they all said it was 79. But what is more important than when it closed is when it can reopen. That's why we need Save The Kings and that's why I hope you can attend our next meeting.

As far as the housing and the retail, I would say it's gone through a major upswing. Many of the apartment houses on Ocean Avenue have either gone coop or have had kitchen, bathroom work upgraded. Also the mansions just a few blocks from the Kings are selling for at least $500,000 and some going for over a million. That is not the sign of a neighborhood in decline!

I bought a ticket for EXORCIST II in the Summer of 1977, and spent the entire time exploring the theater. I seem to recall somebody telling me that the theater had closed and was re-opened with new management. Did somebody briefly try to revive the place after Loew's pulled out?

Yes they did and unfortunately they ran it into the ground and that's when the NYC Economic Development Corporation took over - thanks to tax default.

Bob, thanks for point out that you saw the EXORCIST II in the summer of 1977 and I have been told that there was a live show put on in 1979 by the Flatbush Development Corporation. That show featured Arthur Tracy, the Street Singer. He and I talked in the late 90's-early 2000 and at the time he told me that he was friends with George Burns, Goodman Ace (Jack Benny's writer) and a few others. They sat around the round table at the Algonquin Hotel and Arthur remembers being very depressed over his career being at a stand still. His friends said he should keep his chin up and keep plugging. "Look at George Burns, when Gracie died he found a new career as an actor in 'The Sunshine Boys' The picture was supposed to star Matthau and Benny, but Benny died and Burns got the part. So Arthur looked at his friends and said, 'That's true, but I don't have Jack Benny to die for me!!'

Both acts, Arthur Tracy and Burns & Allen worked the boards at Loew's Kings.

There is a new CD just released that features Lee Erwin playing the Robert-Morton Theatre Organs at Loew's 175th and Loew's Kings. The Kings Wonder Morton recording on the CD is of the organ's farewell concert. More info at http://www.gstos.org/TheWondersOfItAll.htm

I just went to NY Times archive and checked the ad for Exorcist 2 and sure enough the Loew's name has been dropped. Whoever ran the place after Loew's may have closed quickly because the last listing I can find is the week of 7/28/77 when they played a double bill of "Black Street Fighter" and "Tatooed Hit Man".

I can't believe it but July 18, 1980 they appear again showing something called "Almost Human"

Robert-Now I feel terrible that I missed 'Black Street Fighter' and 'Tatooed Hit Man'. Do you think they're available on DVD? What a sad ending for a theater that had so much glory.

I want to be at the next meeting. It seems this page is getting too negative. I'm glad I got back on. Everything can be saved. If the molds don't exist, then we may be able to make them at other theaters. You see we need to be positive.

Here is the ad for the non Loews engagement of "Exorcist 2". Notice it's playing day and date with King's Plaza which it never did before.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Exorcist2.jpg

Here is the summer 1980 movie clock showing the King's open again
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/1980.jpg

By the way, that ad for the Wonder Organ Disc has a way to get to the Loew's Kings Tribute Page from my website. I am thanking anyone from that society who placed it on there. SAVE THE KINGS.

I stand corrected. So the Loew's Kings made two brief comeback attempts. But I'm sort of right in one way regarding the 1974 closure. That was the last year for the Loew's operation of the theater. It looks like 1980 was the last time a movie was shown there to a paying audience.

Dfc;
I believe the theater may have closed in 1979.

Why does everything have to be about the theater's past? Has anybody done anything toward getting it opened again? Has anybody contacted a developer? Has anybody written a proposal? Has anybody contacted the newspapers? If this theater is to be saved, somebody has got to do somethin

Kings.... Re the Loews. It seems a theater developer from Queens- who owns a few theaters in Queens and Manhattan has purchased the Alpine { wich was slated to close shortly} for an undesclosed ammount. Part of the plan is to refurbish it and present community theater and other events in one of that multiplexe`s auditoriums.What this has to do with the Kings I have no clue, but if someone can get him interested in it, maybe he will be interested. Also spoke to a friend in real estate. He claims that the neighborhood where the Kings is located is "dicey" at best and that the general location can possibly scare some investors off. Is there any info on having a new meeting? Please keep me posted.

Richard organized the last meeting, but I have been unable to reach him. If there are people that are interested in a second meeting, please let me know.

In the meantime, what you describe for the Alpine might work nicely at the Kings. I would hate to see the auditorium divided up, but at this point saving the theater has to be the paramount goal. However, the Loew's Kings has a unique advantage over most houses. In the basement is a basketball court and that could be used as a theater space.

Of late, I have been hearing that the Brooklyn Borough President is talking up the Loew's Kings to various real estate developers! In the meantime, the NY Post is looking to do a follow up story -- when and if something happens with the NYC Economic Development Corp. I have been in touch with a television documentry producer and he wants to shoot some interviews and footage within the building.

Is anybody interested in a second meeting?

Bruce: I know of a bank that has been successful investing in low-income areas across the country. Contrary to popular business practices, they have made money by pursuing a socially-conscious agenda. If you come up with a business plan that makes sense I can run it by someone I know at the bank. I think they would relish the idea of bringing back the Kings in order to bolster the surrounding neighborhood. If the numbers makes sense, odds are they will give you financing.

Life: I have no idea what a business plan should cover and don't feel qualified to create one. However, your idea makes sense to me! Could you create the business plan or do you know somebody that is proficient in such things. Naturally, they would have to appreciate all the possibilities the Kings has to offer and not expect to be paid for their efforts.

Through the years that I have tried to Save The Kings, I contacted various real estate developers and tried to interest them. One really seemed impressed and saw the potential and even came out with me to the theater and toured the neighborhood. However, more recently he did not return my calls.
It's really very frustrating!

Bruce: I think you are selling yourself short. Creating a business plan requires no advanced degree. Figure out what your ideas would cost and what kind of income they would generate down the line. Actually, if you had such a document put together in Power Point I think you would have an easier time getting people interested in investing. It doesn't happen overnight. It involves at least a month's time and multiple drafts. I think it would be a worthy goal for your group to accomplish this task. I would love to help. But I won't be able to, beyond talking on this message board, for at least a year. That's the soonest my current volunteer commitment could end. I will think about whether or not I know someone who would be willing to help you develop a business plan. I'm not sure off the top of my head.

Here's a theatre-related example I saw online not long ago:

http://www.dupagetheatre.net/TheatreProposal2.pdf

Bruce and anyone else involved in the effort to bring this beautiful theater back to life. Please contact me at dan AT planetplg.com. I would like to help focus attention on the movement to restore the Loew's Kings as well as cover the story of your fight to get this done.

Thanks,

Dan
PlanetPLG.com

First neighborhood run on Wide-Vision Screen with Perspecta Stereophonic Sound (1954):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/widestereo.jpg

There is a brief feature on the Loew's Kings on my website with a promising new comment by Marty Markowitz:

http://www.PlanetPLG.com

Dan
PlanetPLG.com

Those seeking to save the Kings should read an article about the Ritz Theatre (Elizabeth, NJ) in the May 21, 2006 issue of The Record. Written by Jim Beckerman and entitled "Multiculturalism in a Palatial Venue," it can be found at the newspaper's website: www.bergen.com The Ritz's owners, George & Maurice Castro, might be interested in taking on the Kings, which seems to have the same potential as the Ritz and is located in a similar type of multi-cultural area.

Great tip and great article! Thanks very much Warren. Dan

Near the end
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Bucktown.jpg

A 1972 Academy double bill (remember them) for "Summer of 42" and "Klute"
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Nightcomers.jpg

You know Bruce, I frankly thought it unlikely that you could get celebrities associated with the Kings to return and support it. But apparently a group trying to restore the Fischer in Danville, IL pulled off such an event. Check it out:

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/3897/

http://www.fischertheatre.com/

Text from Fischer Theatre web site:

1983: The City of Danville now owned the theatre. Vermilion Heritage Foundation was formed to restore the theatre. The five Danville stars, Donald O'Connor, Bobby Short, Dick Van Dyke, Jerry Van Dyke and Gene Hackman came to Danville to do a benefit for the theatre. Approximately $400,000 was raised at the time. Because an expected state grant did not come through, little was done to restore the theatre, and some donations were shifted to other charities.

Does anyone know of any current photos of the interior of the Kings. I wonder how bad the neglect of the interior may be.

Anyway, the Kings is very interestingly placed on the block, it's actually built on the diagnal, instead of straight with the property lines. This is the first theater I have seen built like this (at least that I know of). It's very apparent in this aerial view:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qs6y6f8v34jt&style=o&lvl=2&scene=1985487

Bway: That's a very interesting image and one of the few exterior images to convey the massiveness of the KINGS. How would you like to pay to re-do that multi-acre roof? $50,000?

As to theatres that did not sit square on their lots, there were many, with New York's own long-lost ROXY being perhaps the most notorious for this. Ben Hall explains in his landmark book "The Best Remaining Seats" that it was very difficult to install symetrical stage sets there due to this.

Thanks Jim for your input! Yes, it does convey the massiveness of the building. Unfortunately, it would take tens of millions to restore the Kings, and while we would all love to see it, who would come up with the 50 or 60 million necessary to redo the building? There would have to be a profitable reason to do so, or no one will do it. Like you said, even the upkeep, like the roof is terribly expensive on a building that size.

From PlanetPLG.com:

We started to think that either the project had stalled out, and no one wanted to admit it, or that some kind of behind the scenes negotiations were taking place which no one wanted to talk about before a deal is signed. While we have nothing concrete to back up the latter idea, Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz, when reached by the Planet for comment, had this to say;

"I am putting the entire effort of my office in saving and in restoring the Loew's Kings as a performance venue for this and future generations of Brooklynites. It will be a challenging assignment but one that will really benefit Brooklynites."

When pressed for specifics Markowitz stated "I will discuss in further details sometime in July". Hmmm... this sounds promising but, unless we find someone willing to talk off the record, it looks like we'll have to wait until July to see if our optimistic hunch is on the mark.

Sounds like Marty Markowitz is trying to do something. No sane businessperson has come forward in 32 years with a realistic plan. My guess is that somehow the NYC taxpayer will end up paying for a multi-million dollar restoration of the Kings. I hope I'm wrong. But would any of you invest your own money in this place considering the surrounding area? I know it's near beautiful Ditmas Park, but those folks aaren't going flock to the Kings. They have nice air-conditioned home theaters.

No one I know is talking about renovating it as a movie theater. The idea is to create a performing arts center with music, dance, theater etc. and possibly some commerical space as well. If acts are scheduled which target the large local carribean population it should do very well.

That said, you are going to have to sell a lot of tickets to make your initial investment back. I agree that a public investment in the economic future of that part of Brooklyn - in partnership with private investors - would likely be neeed. IMO there are far worse things to spend public money on than the economic well-being of a long underserved area, the restoration of an historic landmark and the arts.

By the way, the A&E channel will be airing a series of segments on the Loew's Wonder Theaters that I am told will include a segment on the Loew's Kings.

Set your DVRs! Sunday, June 18th between 8am-10am on A&E.

Dan
PlanetPLG.com

The biggest problem facing the Kings is that lack of imagination on behalf of most of the people who write about how much it would cost to save it and how there would not be enough support from the local communities to keep it going. Most of the people on cinematreasures writing about the Kings are white, which made up most of the population of surrounding area of the Kings until the mid 1970's. Times have changed and so should our approach to saving the Kings.

Throughout the U.S., there are many former movie palaces that are now used as Multi-Cultural Performing Arts Venues.

The reason the Kings has not risen in 30 years is people are not looking at it from the eyes of the surrounding communites of the Kings. There are many culturals surrounding the Kings, however, thus far no one has thought of the needs of the surrounding communities. If the Kings has events that cater to these diverse populations it could be a success. The Kings is far enough away from the Brooklyn Academy of Music, so that they would not have to complete with one another.

I was born and raised in this area until the mid 1970's. My family left because this area was no longer safe. The major reason why this area took such a hit in the 1970's was because the people lost faith in the local government. They did nothing to stop the crime or the major exodus.

You only need to look at the history of Downtown Brooklyn. It's downfall preceded Flatbush. Crime, drugs, Redlining and the razing of Albee and Brooklyn Fox, sent a clear message to the population that the than local government in Brooklyn, NY was not interested in saving it.

The last area in Brooklyn, NY that could be regentrified is Flatbush. The architecture is still magnificent. The only thing holding the success of the Flatbush area back is the trashy stores on Flatbush and the local government's lack of support and vision for this area.

What a vote of confidence the local government would send to Flatbush area, if they decide to restore the Kings. However, just as important is cleaning up Flatbush Ave from Prospect Park to the Kings.

The biggest problem facing the Kings is that lack of imagination on behalf of most of the people who write about how much it would cost to save it and how there would not be enough support from the local communities to keep it going. Most of the people on cinematreasures writing about the Kings are white, which made up most of the population of surrounding area of the Kings until the mid 1970's. Times have changed and so should our approach to saving the Kings.

Throughout the U.S., there are many former movie palaces that are now used as Multi-Cultural Performing Arts Venues.

The reason the Kings has not risen in 30 years is people are not looking at it from the eyes of the surrounding communites of the Kings. There are many culturals surrounding the Kings, however, thus far no one has thought of the needs of the surrounding communities. If the Kings has events that cater to these diverse populations it could be a success. The Kings is far enough away from the Brooklyn Academy of Music, so that they would not have to complete with one another.

I was born and raised in this area until the mid 1970's. My family left because this area was no longer safe. The major reason why this area took such a hit in the 1970's was because the people lost faith in the local government. They did nothing to stop the crime or the major exodus.

You only need to look at the history of Downtown Brooklyn. It's downfall preceded Flatbush. Crime, drugs, Redlining and the razing of Albee and Brooklyn Fox, sent a clear message to the population that the than local government in Brooklyn, NY was not interested in saving it.

The last area in Brooklyn, NY that could be regentrified is Flatbush. The architecture is still magnificent. The only thing holding the success of the Flatbush area back is the trashy stores on Flatbush and the local government's lack of support and vision for this area.

What a vote of confidence the local government would send to Flatbush area, if they decide to restore the Kings. However, just as important is cleaning up Flatbush Ave from Prospect Park to the Kings.

There's nothing stopping the area from improving. In fact all of Brooklyn is better now. If Bedford-Stuyvesant and Bushwick can actually see a light at the end of the tunnel andg begin improving, and even gentrifying, so is/will Flatbush.
But gentrification or not, there would have to be a profitable use for the Kings for it to be successful. EVen if it's a non for profit organization it still must at least make the operating/renovation costs to run and maintain the place for it to be worthwhile. That is the challenge. The neighborhood's viablility is important, but viable or not, the Kings must still see a way to make a profit, or at least stay afloat for renovation and maitenance costs.

If you had told me that the Jersey would be renovated by volunteers and bring in half-decent crowds showing classic movies, I would have said you were crazy.

If you had told me someone would spend the money to restore the Bronx Paradise and end up packing in nice crowds with ethnically-flavored events, I would have said you were crazy.

I think this place can serve a useful purpose again. I am not sure exactly what that purpose is. But my skepticism has certainly been challenged!

New photo and quotes from poiticos on the Loew's Kings on PlanetPLG.com - wow!

http://www.planetplg.com

Statement from Councilmember Yvette Clarke:

"Councilmember Clarke would prefer that the future of the Loew's Theater is determined by a fair and impartial RFP process, which will allow for a discussion between the community and elected officials on how best to proceed. This project can be the cornerstone in the future economic revival of Central Brooklyn and she looks forward to working with the EDC and the Borough President toward's this end."

Councilmember Clarke's RFP idea makes a lot of sense. The RFP process will determine if there is serious interest out there in a restoration of the Kings. It will force those with plans to spell out the economic viability of their proposals. The RFP process will also keep everybody honest - or so we NYC taxpayers hope.

WOW!! Thanks for posting that photo! What a beautiful place the Kings was/is!! It's in bad shape obviously, but it's not "that" bad that it's beyond hope, almost as the RKO Keith's Flushing is.
When was the last movie played in the Kings?

Well, in all fairness I think that is a close-up of the one most severely damaged area of the theatre (based on other photos I have seen). I don't think the entire building is in that bad of shape.

And like I said, aside from dirt, some debris, it's not "that" bad as I said, even in that photo.

Perhaps the BP and Councilmember's offices can convince Barbra Streisand to turn over some of the profits from her upcoming show at Madison Square Garden (top tickets going for $750 by the way) towards the theater's restoration. I've always heard her pay great lip service to what was the movie palace of her youth. I wonder how she'd respond if anyone with a real plan for restoration and functionality approached her for financial backing.

A haunting and intriquing photo, by the way. I'm very much looking forward to the "Wonder Theater" segments on this week's "Breakfast with the Arts" program.

EdSolero, realistically I don't see Streisand (or any other ex-Brooklyn celebrity) getting involved in any substantial way with the Kings. She may pay lip service to her memories of the Loews Kings but it's just that - lip service. She might kick in a few bucks for old time's sake. She has to be out of Brooklyn for more than 40 years at this point. Actors and actresses are always gushing forth about something. It's what they do best I suppose. The Streisand connection has come up before in this discussion. Has she or her "staff" ever responded officially to anything regarding the Loews Kings?

Yes, I wasn't really being all that serious about it, DFC. I probably should have done a better job at making my sarcasm more obvious. I can't believe her fans would allow her to get away with such obscene ticket prices! $754 for the best seats. $354 for the next tier! Perhaps there is some charity involved in the proceeds, but when you're as rich as she is and when you play for your fans as infrequently as she does, you'd think she would just make her own charitable donations and just price tickets so that people could afford the rare opportunity to enjoy her in concert! Fortunately for my wallet, I'm not among her zealous fans.

She might win me over with a nice contribution towards the Loew's Kings cause, however.

Those ticket prices are beyond ridiculous but she has a certain intense following that will pay that much to see her perform. I thought that she was semi-retired at this point in her life.

I think that she would be getting some P.R. value out of it if there was a charity involved. She knows that she can charge that much and get away with it.

Check out this link to see what I am talking about with respect to the auditorium damage:

http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php

Kings interior photos are pretty close to the bottom. The PlanetPLG photo zooms in on the one area at the back left of the shot you will see looking out from the stage. Most of the theatre looks musty, dusty, and in need of attention...but not devastated like the area in that closeup. I heard somewhere that the roof was repaired some years ago too. So that damage to the sidewall could very well predate the repair.

Hi all,

I just posted the other A&E shot of the Loew's Kings and I created a separate section for the theater:

http://www.planetplg.com/loews.htm

Enjoy!

Dan
PlanetPLG.com

Was on Flatbush Av last night- 6-15. Stoped to look at the Kings. Even though the gates were closed, I noticed lights on inside the building. Wonder whats going on.

A friend of mine is a freelance editor and works at A&E and saw the program yesterday. The segment is between 15 to 18 minutes and prominently features the Loew's Jersey and the Kings. Some interviews and, what is most important to this group, interior footage.

Considering 30 years left to rot and the thieves from the Flatbush Development Corp stealing everything not nailed down I think it looks pretty damn good. The Westbury looked this bad when it was still open showing movies.

The aerial view of the theater and its surrounding environs is quite revealing. Consider:

The theater is uniquely and prominently situated on a corner facing a main thoroughfare.

Mass transit is nearby and bus routes run adjacent to the theater.

For those wary of taking public transport, it is easily accessible by private car, as the theater is blessed with proximity to a large car park located directly across the street - one that could be readily used to accommodate the large crowds it could potentially attract.

It is located in an area that is certainly no worse than Bronx’s Paradise (and that theater has been playing to "sell-out" crowds) – and not too far away are “more desirable” and “not so bad” neighborhoods (such as Midwood, Ditmas Park, Albemarle-Kenmore Terrace, Kensington, Borough Park, Windsor Terrace and Park Slope-Prospect Park South/West) that could have a positive influence on redevelopment and as well provide an audience for cultural events that could occur at this venue. The demographic mix of these places could attract a variety of shows (look at the Ritz Theatre in Elizabeth, NJ).

Its huge interior and seating capacity make it a perfect candidate for large-scale productions and live performances.

So what’s the delay (besides the cost of reopening)? Isn’t there someone out there who can come up with the funding to restore and operate it – how about corporate sponsorship? (It would be great for public relations, image and name/brand awareness – several major/national retailers already have stores serving in this area.) – a big name on a big theater could mean big business!

TonyM, Did your friend mention any possibility of the A&E show being released on DVD? Lets hope that enough people contact them about the real value of their show !!! This type of footage is so rare.

Dan, your interior pictures are totally amazing. I never would have guessed things looked like that from old black and white pictures or a car drive by. Super website !

I think Brooklyn should stabalize the theatre so no more damage occurs. I think Brooklyn should look at what the City of Oakland in California is doing with the Fox Oakland. The City is going to spend 47 Million on a Charter School which will surround the Fox and money will be spent on the theatre to get it operational. It is called the ruins project and full restoration will come later. The Fox Oakland seats around 3500 and has been closed since the early 1970's. The Fox has a new roof,a restored marquee and no seats. I think Brooklyn should look at doing some repairs to the Kings to get it operational and slowly restore the theatre in stages as funds become available. I think a small section of the theatre should be restored next to an area that has been damaged to show people what the theate could be and to show that some progress is being made. I would clean and restore the front of the theatre so it doesn't look like an eyesore to the surrounding neighberhood. The City of Oakland spent $600,000 restoring the marquee in the front of the Fox a few years ago and this gave the theatre a big boost in the eyes of the public.brucec

I am glad to see that the “Wonder Theatre” segments on A&E Television’s “Breakfast with the Arts” program placed extra emphasis on the Kings and Jersey Theatres, since these two are in the most "need" of public awareness and support (and the ability to get an "insider's" look at the Kings was a rare treat - there is no reason why it couldn't live on, serving Brooklyn as a performing arts center). Borough President Marty Markowitz’s presence and comments were particularly encouraging (although I’m not expecting him to perform any miracles).

Thank you, Orlando Lopes (American Theater Historical Society) for advocating public awareness and support of saving, preserving, "respecting" and "fighting for" our classic theaters, especially during the segment on the Kings.

I thoroughly enjoyed the A&E special but was left wanting more. Much More!!!!! The theaters are incredibly special and represent an architectural legacy that will never be duplicated. That all five of these theaters still exist is a miracle, but this show could easily have done a hour or more devoted to their history and current states of condition. It was truly uplifting to see what has been done by voulnteers to rescue the Jersey. Why can't the same be done for the Kings! It is already owned by the city. The borough presidents office could easily earmark discretionary funds to jumpstart this project and Brooklyn corporate sponsors could be enlisted as well. I was disappointed that we saw virtually none of the 175th St. theater in this special. I also was surprised that they didn't devote more to the Paradise since it has just been reopened. I wanted to see more of the architectual details.

Maybe I would never have been satified no matter how much they showed! :-)

I was great to see these theaters given the attention they desparately need if we are to preserve them for future generations.

Has someone set up a Friend's of Loew's Kings organization? If not, would the people at Friend's of Loew's in New Jersey help the people of Brooklyn set up a similar organization?

I saw the A&E special and I saw various pictures of the King. Well all I have to say is how can they leave one of the most beautiful structures in NY just deteriorating like that. If only I had a ton of money, I would have restored her. I am curious is the structure still safe to go in by the looks of it. I hope this theatre to be restored soon and considered a landmark.

While the Kings is a diamond in the rough, after viewing the A&E show, it really isn't "that" bad. By that I mean, it's not that it appears "unsafe", and definitely, most of the theater is completely intact and restorable thankfully. While of course it "didn't look good", I thought it would be worse considering it's been closed for 30 years. I really hope they find a way to restore it, and find a use for it.

The special wa great. I don't understand why Barbra Strisand doesn't do something too get the ball rolling on reviving the theater. She does a lot for charity and is doing another tour and this would be the perfect time for her to get involved.

I've seen photos of the old New Amsterdam theater on 42nd St. which was partially open to the sky and suffered from its exposure to the elements. It truly appeared to be unsavable. Yet it was saved! Through a combination of city initiative (The 42nd St. Business Improvement District)and private industry (Disney). The same could be done in Brooklyn! I know that Brooklyn is not Manhattan, but it isn't East St. Louis either. Much can be done here.

The borough President talks about the King's being a passion of his. Let's see him put some money where his mouth is! Each Borough President has discretionary funds in his budget to allocate to worthy project within his borough. Give the King's a grant to at least stabilize the building and jump start the rebuilding process. Then, he can press the local Brooklyn Corporate world for contributions.

The Kings can be saved, should be saved and will be saved!

Is the organ in Loews Kings still in the theatre? Will they restore if Kings is ever restored?

The A&E special was good, even if in that annoying jumpy style. The link below is to an A&E web form where you can ask for the "A&E Breakfast with The Arts / Loews' Wonder Theaters" program to be released on DVD. Select 'Programming /Programs On Home Video' from the drop-down selection, then fill out the required items and especially the 'Comments' section with your request.

http://www.aetv.com/global/feedback/contact.jsp?site=AETV.com&NetwCode=AEN

Oh shoot; I haven't been online in months and I missed the special, when willit be on next?

Dan, I tried the email on that page and got, well, a return to sender. You may want to place my site on it. There is a site to help save the Kings on the Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Webpage http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu and you can get right to it from the main index there.

In 1974, Loew's donated the Kings' Wonder organ to the NYC-owned Town Hall in Manhattan. The organ was played for the last time in the Kings on Sunday morning, January 27th, 1974, with Lee Erwin at the console and about 200 organ buffs in the audience. The American Theater Organ Society and its Greater New York chapter took care of the Morton's removal, which cost about $15,000, including transportation to storage facilities owned by NYC. Unfortunately, while the organ was under NYC's protection, most if not all of the organ's esssential parts mysteriously "disappeared," and only the console casing was left. ATOS eventually re-built the console with all new parts, and it was sold to a private collector who installed it in his home. More about this can be found at www.gstos.org/TheWondersOfItAll.htm

What an unfortunate story. I do not really know much about organs. Is this a common chain of events?

All too common. This is why organ chambers are usually locked. Even if a thief doesn't have a fence for the parts for organ use, he knows that there is a black market for old pipes and such -- if only as valuable scrap metal. One can only wonder at how many dope habits were maintained with the sale of such pipe organ metals.

Hello all,

I have fixed the "Friends of the Loew's Kings" email address on the Save The Loew's Kings! web page (thanks Gustavelifting for pointing out the problem - I was beginning to think the LK had no friends).

http://www.planetplg.com/loews.htm

Please email me your contact info if you would like to be kept in the loop regarding any organizing around the Loew's Kings. I will reach out to you via email regarding any campaigns to get this renovation project moving!

Thanks,

Dan Canale-Parola
PlanetPLG.com

The great movie palaces of New York met their death as a direct result of the liberal New York government's embracing of crime and welfare circa 1968 through 1980, and leaving drug traffic unimpared. During that era, New York lost 20% of its population (mostly white middle class) and almost lost the New York Stock Exchange. NYC went literally bankrupt under the corrupt government and had to be bailed out by loans from Washington. (Their account was on my desk at the US Treasury). That was then, and this is now. QUESTION: Is the movie business dead? ANSWER: No, they rake in hundreds of millions at up to $10.50 a ticket. I wonder if just one motion picture company might risk playing just one of their pictures the old way, the way they succeeded for decades: Book the picture into one of the restored Wonder Theaters, rather than the multiplex, and see how many people respond. Why rule out the idea of filling a beautiful oversized theatre with just regular moviegoers?

I disagree. I think that the downfall of the great movie palaces of New York was mainly due to the introduction of saturation distribution, which started in 1962 with UA's "Premiere Showcase" concept. The large "deluxe" theatres that had always received preferential treatment were suddenly competing with the lowliest "nabes" for product.

rivjr, the demise of the great movie palaces is not unique to just New York. It happened in cities all over the country, and little suburban/rural theaters too. It's a phenomena that is almost a blanket phenomena. Also, the loss of the middle class in NYC in the 50's and later was also not unique to New York. That also happened in cities across the country with suburbanification. And the closure of theaters is not just unique to "not so nice" neighborhoods. That also happened even in the best of neighborhoods. The only ones to survive were the ones basically that were multiplexed up.

Road to Hong Kong on Premiere Showcase was a symptom of the times. In NYC, Robert Moses was steadily at work towards the breaking-up of established neighborhoods with the building of the Cross Bronx Expressway and the failed Lower Manhattan Expwy. These traffic arteries were designed to bypass the city entirely, while traveling from one suburban center to another. Of course, this was the trend throughout the country. A major draw of the Times Square movie palaces were the live performances headlining star talent. The advent of TV and the elimination of live acts made the movie palaces less of a destination. Roadshow presentations did maintain a sense of exclusivity for a while. rlvjr's idea might be interesting, but the economics of risking a major presentation to a limited number of venues may be more than a studio can handle, given their eye on the first weekend's take..

Astanaax, you are correct.
People have to remember that it is also changing preferences that caused the demise of the large theaters. In the days before TV, or during the rise of TV, these large movie houses was the only entertainment people had, so of course these large palaces filled up.
With the dawn of TV, it was a big blow to movie houses. Then notice when the last of the big theaters either went out completely or the ones that remained were often times cut up into multiplexes....and that was around the time of the dawn of VHS movies. That was the second big blow to the large palaces.

The organ comments above make sense Jim. Never thought about it that way. You could certainly buy a good deal of dope by selling organ pipes for scrap. I would guess that it is not terribly difficult to remove them either. People...

There is some truth to those who disagreed with my post. New York was indeed NOT the only city to lose its great movie palaces to the unimpared crime and drug mess of the 70's and 80's. But many young New Yorkers are actually unaware their city truly lost 20% of its population (2 million people) back then --- not just a shift from white middle class to other folks, a net loss of 2 million. A mess. The showcasing of movies to multiple screens evolved in response to unchecked crime and people not wanting to come into the city or certain neighborhoods. In my city it was the aftermath of the Martin Luther King riots and arson, killing downtown for over 20 years and with our loss of all great theatres but one. Again though, THAT WAS THEN, and THIS IS NOW. Rudy cleaned up New York and his momentum continues under Bloomberg. Most parts of New York are on the rebound. I drove 600 miles round trip to see Cate Blanchett when she played the Academy of Music's annex last winter. If Brooklyn can get ME back there, surely there's hope.

Hope never left NYC, rlvjr... not even when people were leaving by the 100's of thousands. The City was already coming back from the brink during the Koch administration and the drop in crime started following the national trend during the last years of Dinkin's largely ineffectual mayoralty. Lionizing Rudy Giuliani for all that has gone "right" in NYC is as misguided an oversimplification as blaming all the ills of society today on liberalism. No doubt the man accomplished much in his tenure here, but it did not come without a price and many New Yorkers had grown weary of his egomania by the end of his 2nd term... His exemplary leadership during the tragedy of 9/11 managed to erase a lot of ill will between hizzoner and the good citizenry of New York.

Anyway... I recommend we leave the political discourse on this site to those news and poll items that call for such debate. Let's leave the theater pages to less rancorous subjects. I hereby surrender my soap box.

Personally I think the hope that left New York City came back with the Koch Administration. However, Dinkins let it die for a few years. Rudy restarted it. Bloomberg is riding on it, even though he is a damn good mayor.

A Major blow to the huge movie palaces around the country was the drop in attendace in the late 1950's,with a drastic reduction in movie production resulting in fewer releases and the birth of the roadshow reserved seat event film which would run from 6 months to a year in the major markets. Each of the major studios would release up to two event films a year and would prefer to book them in theatres seating between 1200-1500 seats. The event films would be exclusive runs but other films released started opening more and more on showcase runs in the 1960's. Downtown's across the country were on a slow decline by the mid 1960's, some more rapidly than others. Real Estate was also a factor in the decline and fall of many movie palaces around the country. The Times Square Capitol a successful roadshow house at the end of its life was demolished to make way for a skyscraper and Loews repaced the Capitol by twinning the Times Square State into two roadshow houses. The 1970's ended the era of the movie palace as more films were relaesed wide and more business was being done in the suburbs rather than downtown. The decline of the single screen theatre started slowly in the 1960's and was dead by the 1980's with a few exceptions.The twin,triplex,sixplex which replaced the single screen theatre were replaced by the megaplex 14-30 screen theatres in the 1990's. Most restored movie palaces are used for live stage and not movies. I always hope that movies are part of a restored movie palace future life such as the Fox in Atlanta with there classic summer movie program. I have to give credit to the Friends of the Loews Jersey for bringing movies back to a big movie palace. The Kings has suffered and lasted this long so she can be restored back to the people of Brooklyn.brucec

Koch and Giuliani destroyed mid town and had demolished all the remaining Times Square movie palaces. They are despicable in their stupidity and greed.
And as for leading the city after 9/11 what did Giuliani have to do? Everyone was stunned! For him and Bush it was nothing but a photo op testament to their incompetence and ingnorance of a terrorist threat. All three men may they rot.

Vincent, this really isn't the place for a lefty hissy fit. The fact that we can contemplate the resurrection of abandoned theaters rather than worry about simple survival five years after the worst attack on American soil is a testament to past and current leadership.

Those theaters in Times were already in steep steep decline and shambles before Guiliani or Koch for that matter. Most would have taken billions to restore. And for what? To spend all that money on them, there would have to be a profitable reason, otherwise what building owner in their right mind would do such a thing. They were a victim of their time ending. Blame TV, DVD's, VHS, etc, not Guliani.

Someone... Giuliani, the LPC... SOMEONE should have fully explored the idea of preserving at least one or two of the big Broadway movie palaces (the Rivoli and maybe the State or Strand) as bonafide architectural and cultural landmarks. The rich cinematic heritage of Times Square was completely ignored, while just about every legitimate B'way house was granted designation including some seriously unprofitable theaters in each of the three major circuits. If the Loew's Astor Plaza can make a run for it as a concert venue and the Beacon uptown can thrive for decades as such, surely the Rivoli or Strand (despite the cosmetic twinning and sealing off of the stages) could have made a run at some sort of acceptable adaptive re-use. The plans to redevelop the area ran complete rough-shod over the area's proud legacy of motion picture exhibition and our leader's in government from Koch to Giuliani should have done better by that tradition.

If you want to refer to my anger at the destructions of our downtowns and the neglect of our national security a hissy fit so be it.
A great deal of architectural beauty has been destroyed out of sheer greed. And it doesn't take a lefty to figure out that our national security was purposely ignored.
The Rivoli, Strand, Morosco Helen Hayes and Loew's State, the old Met, the Capitol, the Paramount, Astor Hotel and Penn Station did not need to be torn down.
These were fully functional great NY buildings.
And I still stand by my statement on that loathsome triumvirate.

Vincent, your venom should then be directed to Mayor Wagner. Much of your list of landmarks fell to the wreckers under his watch. You can also add the Roxy, Brooklyn Paramount, Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds, and countless other structures to Wagner's list.

The first half of my list belongs to Koch and Giuliani.And I left out the Criterion and Bijou and the destruction of 42nd St as a neighborhood. Everything left after the slaughter of the 60's. There was still a great theatrical neighborhood left. Now it is just a corporate cesspool. Sorry if this offends you. But if it does I am genuinely surprised.
Look at the constant political harrassment the Friends of the Loews is going through out in Jersey. There are many who would have said that building was in a 'shambles and steep decline.'
Thank god for those volunteers out there showing what a great legacy was left to us and how much of it was destroyed.

Vincent, we do share common ground. The Kings can use a bunch of passionate people as the Jersey is fortunate enough to have. Hopefully one day the two of us, with some others, can show up with some brooms and large supply of Endust. Anything is possible as long as it's still standing. The good news is the Borough President appears to be on our side.

I would have traded a few New York area church conversions and all of the Times Square palaces if the Roxy could have been saved. I am not usually one to make such statements. But that was the greatest picture palace ever constructed in the United States and should have been saved, profitable or not.

The problem New York City had in saving there Times Square movie palaces is that the city had so many legit theatres.The demand for larger musical theatres didn't take place until the 1990's after all the large movie palaces had been demolished. Its a shame that a skyscraper couldn't have been built over the Loews Capitol becuase this theatre had a large stage and would have made a great Broadway House instead of the Ugly Gershwin (Uris) Theatre. Thank god the Hollwood (Mark Hellinger) is still standing. The San Francisco Fox one of the greatest movie palaces ever built had a chance to be saved and the voters turned it down. There is a lot of blame to go around for the demise of our beloved movie palaces but I wouldn't be to harsh with the Mayor of New York there were forces beyond his control. The fight to save the Music Hall made national news and thank god it was saved. The Shuberts pushed very hard to have the City clean up Times Square which has been a major plus for Broadway and tourism. I give credit to Disney for restoring the New Amsterdam when 42nd St looked like shit and nobody else wanted to invest in the area. I think the speed of development in Times Square even surprised the City of New York.brucec

Agreed. Great post.
Yes, it actually took Disney to get the ball rolling to clean up Times Square. There are many people nostalgic for what was once there, but looking through rose colored glasses. The place was a dump, and something needed to be done. The glory days of 42nd Street were over long before the 80's rolled in.

I also think that whoever built one of the hotels should be praised for the one by the Broadway Palace rises above the original theater which is still intact. In other words, the interior of that famous vaudeville palace was preserved and they are presently running the musical Lehstadt there. So, there is at least one old picture palace on Broadway that we can enjoy.

However, how does that help save the Kings. It is in need of a revival. Maybe they should reopen it for legitimate theater. Get some new artists interested in the place and produce plays.

Ummmm! Lestat closed weeks ago. It was one of the worst things I've ever seen on Broadway. (The tickets were free). The theater....beautiful!!!!

The Disneyfication was the worst thing to ever happen to midtown. If you actually think it was a good thing then may you live in a shopping mall for the rest of your life.

I passed by the shuttered Palace Theatre on Tuesday afternoon, and the entrance was in a shockingly unkempt condition. I hadn't seen anything as bad since the closed and decaying 42nd Street grind houses. I hope that the Palace doesn't stay that way until it finds another tenant, which could be a long time from now.

Warren, which Palace do you mean, the one on Broadway? Why is it empty? Is this the Palace that Beauty and the Beast played in some time ago?

I was also taken aback by the appearance of the Palace when I was by for a matinee last week. Curious that the folks at the Roundabout have declined to reopen "Pajama Game" citing that a 1200+ seat theater was not available. After having read the reviews of "Lestat" they should have realized that the Palace would soon be able to accomodate the show.

I hope that Warren or someone will explain "which Palace" so that comments about it here can be directed to its page, and not continue here on the KINGS' page. It is already a long download without having comments about another theatre making it longer!

It's this Palace below....the conversation already moved there:

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/6635/

Well back on subject here, as if people don't already know, this is after all is said and done;
the Loew's Kings Theatre page.......

Here are some photographs I took in June 2006.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188844420/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188844951/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188845371/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188845826/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188846250/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188846764/

It seems remarkable that so much detail was featured on the central section of the facade. Yet it was mostly hidden for 70 years by the large vertical sign that was in place when the theatre opened and can only be seen to its full advantage now that the sign has been removed.

Great pictures Ken, its really a shame that a thing of beauty is deteriorating like this. I don't even live in Brooklyn but I think something should be done to get things moving. I would love to see this theatre in its original look.

Well then Shorty C there is a great vintage of the interior in the Ben Hall book. It is stupendous. And people praise junk like the Gehry airplane hangars(Disney concert Hall etc.)

I meant to write photo after vintage. The Loew's is a theater not a wine. The book is the Best Remaining Seats. And if you haven't seen it you're in for a spectacular treat.

"THE BEST REMAINING SEATS, The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" is available under that full title of the hard bound first edition, or truncated titles of two later reprintings with some editing. It can be found at many larger libraries or they can have it lent to you on Inter-Library Loan. You can also find copies for sale (used) at such as www.amazon.com Note that only the first edition of 1961 contains the 5 color plates -- though the latter editions retain the caption for the missing plates! Its author, the late Ben M. Hall, would have been delighted to see how well his magnum opus has stood the test of time!

Jim... I have a later edition of the book. I haven't taken note of the orphaned captions yet... on which page(s) do they appear?

Ed: the caption in bold is on the bottom of page 136 of the First Edition, though the later editions may not follow the pagination of the First exactly. The plates I mentioned are actually six images: the first being the Frontice piece: a rendering of the aud. of the ROXY. The others are on pages 137 through 140: the aud. of the MISSOURI in St. Joseph; the lobby mural of the STATE in Syracuse. Pgs 138/9 are a spread of the rendering of the aud. of the PARADISE in the Bronx; pg. 140 has the aud. of the KIMO in Albuquerque (pre fire); and the proscenium of the PARAMOUNT in Plainfield, NJ. All of these are surrounded by black ink artwork from the AVALON (now NEW REGAL) in Chicago, though not attributed there.

If you want to tip in these color plates to your edition, you don't have to resort to color photocopies from the First Edition; you can look in used books stores for collections of the defunct hardbound magazine "American Heritage" from October, 1961. Therein are the 5 color plates with slightly different captions within the article: "The Best Ree-maining Seats" by the same Mr. Hall.

Thanks, Jim.

How unfortunate is it that we have no color photos of the interiors of the Chi Paradise, the Roxy or the Brooklyn and Times Square Paramounts and Kings. I believe the color plates are all illustrations. The only color picture I've seen of the San Francisco Fox is of the Lobby.

The front of the Loew's KIngs needs to be cleaned up by the City to get the ball rolling. The City needs to spend a little money cleaning the front and make the marquee presentable where it could be used to post messages until the theatre is operational. The lobby could be worked on first to show people what could be done with the rest of the theatre. The Auditorium could be worked on in stages.The necessary repairs need to be made so no more damage occurs to the theatre. When I saw the Kings in 2002 many seats were in good shape and they should be covered and protected. The City should provide some heat so no more damage occurs. I only hope city government is really serious about saving the Kings becuase I see very little action being done to stabalize this theatre.brucec

I hear everyone talking about everything besides what the real concern here is with regards to saving the Kings. I agree with the idea that the kings should be used for a Performing Arts Center. It would really revitalize the area. If you all can get the ball rolling to get to a capital campaign stage I can get some celebrities who may want to do a dramatic reading for the theater but you have a long way to go.

I hear everyone talking about everything besides what the real concern here is with regards to saving the Kings. I agree with the idea that the kings should be used for a Performing Arts Center. It would really revitalize the area. If you all can get the ball rolling to get to a capital campaign stage I can get some celebrities who may want to do a dramatic reading for the theater but you have a long way to go.

The theater itself on the ouside looks like it's in decent shape, just looks dirty (just needs cleaning and TLC, lol). Beautiful building.

At the risk of giving Jim Rankin a coronary, I will respond here to Vincent's San Francisco Fox comment. There are color photos of the entire building. If memory serves they can be found in a comprehensive hard cover book written on the Fox many years ago. I believe this book was called something like:"the Fabulous Fox." I also believe that it is now out of print. But it can probably be found at the Theatre Historical Society.

(all in good fun Jim, I know that you are a stickler when it comes to comments being placed on the correct page)

It's easy to say that the Kings should be a performing arts center, but what it also needs is a visionary like "Roxy" Rothafel to run and program it. Without that person, I believe that the theatre will continue to rot until it becomes a menace to public safety and needs to be demolished.

No doubt this is true. The Uptown in Chicago is fast approaching the point you describe. I think one of the main things that has kept the Uptown standing is the fact that it would cost a ton of money to bring it down. Who would pay to do this in a seedy area of Chicago? But with the neighborhood around it fast improving I think the cost-benefit analysis is going to start working against the old place one of these days. Some people have commented about improvements on Flatbush Avenue. So the same may be true here.

I was over at the Staten Island Paramount section of this site, that theater was designed by Rapp and Rapp. I suggested that they may try to help restore the Kings because, from what I read over there that theater may not be restorable. What do you all think?

Well, "Life" I may be at the age for a coronary, but your comment above re the San Francisco FOX book won't give me one. The 7-pound tome you are referring to is titled: "FOX--The Last Word" by the late Preston Kaufmann in 1980. It is still sometimes for sale used at www.amazon.com for hundreds of dollars, but one could order it through Inter-Library Loan at most libraries. It is probably the high water mark in theatres books, and well worth owning if one can afford this voloume about a fabulous theatre! Yes, it does have color photos, but all of them are from the 1950s on, since there was no COLOR STILL photography until after the second world war. It also does have color renderings (paintings) of the place at opening.

By the way, I got an E-mail from one:
"Adrienne OBrien" adrienne_obrien64@hotmail.com who says that she is trying to contact you re Paul Warshauer. I explained that you give no contact information on your Profile page (obtained for any Registered member when one clicks one a person's name in blue at the bottom of a comment). If you wish people to contact you, merely click on the word Profile in the upper right corner of any page (if you have manually or automatically signed-in) and correct the CONTACT INFO field as you wish. If you also choose to put your name at the top, you will probably get more intelligent messages from more people; and your E-mail service will allow you to block the addresses of those whom you would rather not talk to.

10,000 Brooklynites welcomed Dolores Del Rio on opening day in September, 1929: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/kings9829.jpg

Here is a recent closeup view of the Loew's Kings.

I haven't heard from this section of the site for a while, are there people still out there?

Rebroadcast of Breakfast with the arts on A&E

Monaco/Wonder Theatres ”
Rated: TVPG
Running Time: 120 Minutes
Genre:
Closed Captions: Yes
Upcoming Airings:
Sunday, August 20 @ 8am/7C

Search for other upcoming episodes

The A&E program aired on Sunday August 20th. What a theatre. At least the theatre is still standing. Hamilton Ontario has lost all of it's grand theatres of which most are still parking lots when the destruction started in the 70's.

There is a new comment on the Loew's Kings from Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz on PlanetPLG.com:

http://www.planetplg.com

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Mister Markowitz?

You should be able to find a contact address for Markowitz through a Google search. He's one of Brooklyn's most conspicuous politicians. But frankly, I don't trust anything he says about the Kings, and feel that he's only using it to win supporters for the next election. I hope for the sake of the Kings that I'm wrong.

Marty Markowitz has a website here. On his website there is contact info on the left side of the screen. To save you some searching, here is the email address given on that website: askmarty@brooklynbp.nyc.gov

What record could 1776 possibly have broken at the music hall?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/1776.jpg

A little deceptive advertising. The opening month of 1776 broke RCMH attendance records due to the live Christmas Nativity show being so popular.

WARNING! Joan Crawford & Dorothy Kilgallen are on the loose!
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/warning.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/warning2.jpg

Loew's Kings to be open to the public for tours for two days in October for the first time since the 70s!

See www.PlanetPLG.com

Dan

Fantastic News!!!! I hope to be there!

The announcement says that the visit is 92.5% certain, which means that there's still doubt. I would imagine that's due to safety and liability insurance concerns. The tour could easily end up being just of the exterior, as has happened in the past.

I know, but I'm still very hopeful!

Please accept my apologies. I finally heard from OHNY and, despite the blurb in their email, they were in the end unable to get permission to include the Loew's Kings on their tour this year.

I am very sorry to have promulgated this false bit of news, particularly because I know you will be as disappointed as I am.

Dan
PlanetPLG.com

I am trying to get in touch with Marty Markowitz through E-Mail, but the problem is I am not from Brooklyn (though that's where I come from originally). I wonder if any of you would be willing to contact him. I just sent an E-Mail on a construction company that has been doing restoration projects around the city and Long Island.

Crawford on a Columbia Showcase
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Beserk.jpg

I recently saw Memoirs of a Movie Palace. Amazing film about the Kings. Watching it, you want to cry. Even more so, when thinking about the state the theater must be in today. If you get a chance, see this film. It's at Donnell library in New York City.

I am writing an article about the theater and recent efforts to reopen it. I would love to hear from anyone who has is interested in sharing personal stories about the theater, discussing its history, and talking about what they'd like to see happen with the theater in the future.

Please e-mail me at carolinespreston@gmail.com

Thank you!

Caroline

Bruce Friedman reports that things are moving forward on getting an RFP written for the Loew's Kings. See details on PlanetPLG.com.

http://www.planetplg.com

Dan

Holiday Showcase
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/OliveronShowcase.jpg

How long after its premier did that Showcase run begin, Robert? I think this was one of the earliest films I saw in theaters and it was probably at the Lefrak - which would have been closest to my home in Elmhurst at the time. Although, it might have been the Flushing Prospect as well.

The Loew's Kings can be seen in the distance in this 1950's photo. A better 1950's view of the Loew's Kings can be seen here.

I met Markowitz at a summer concert and he claims to have a "3 year plan" in place to restore the Kings.

For some reason I doubt that will happen. Look whats happened to Coney Island and even the Shore theatre. All three things need restoration and work but we can't wait too long, even though there have been so many plans, nothing has been done. I hope the Kings will soon be fixed though.

At least the Kings isn't nearly as bad as the Shore.
From photos that were posted in the Loews Shore Theater section (unfortunately now taken down though), the plaster from the entire top of the procenium arch has already fallen down to the floor at the Shore, as well as a good part of the ceiling itself, right up to the circle in the center of the theater. On the right side, in the old Juliet balcony section, a large chunck of the plater has falled to the ground from there too. The place is in need of help immediately. And unfortunately, if parts of the ceiling already came down from the water damage in the Shore already, I am sure much of the ceiling still up may also be lose, and ready to come down. It's not good.

At least the Kings isn't to that point yet....but they betetr do something soon.

BIG NEWS:

NYC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION AND
BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT SEEK
REDEVELOPMENT OF FORMER LOEW'S KINGS THEATER



New York City, September 28, 2006 – New York City Economic Development Corporation (EDC), in cooperation with Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz, issued a Request for Expressions of Interest (RFEI) for the rehabilitation of the former Loew's Kings Theater at 1025-1035 Flatbush Avenue. The theater contains approximately 63,000 square feet of space, including about 5,000 square feet of retail space, on a 53,900-square-foot-parcel. RFEI responses may include plans for additional City-owned parcels, containing about 77,200 square feet, adjacent to the theater. Redevelopment plans must be economically feasible, rehabilitate and reuse the theater building, and retain certain elements of the theater's original architectural features. Public funds may be made available for initial capital expenditures.



"The unique character of the former Loew's Kings Theater combined with its location in the middle of the Flatbush Avenue retail strip make this an especially exciting redevelopment project," said EDC Interim President Joshua J. Sirefman. "Our goal is to receive responses that are forward-thinking, but with a genuine reverence for the theater's glorious past. I want to thank Marty Markowitz for his enthusiasm and support of this important project."

The RFEI envisions a wide array of possible uses, such as a commercial theater, a not-for-profit cultural institution, a gallery and auction house, a television and motion picture production facility, residential units, a hotel, restaurants, a community facility and retail establishments. Development opportunities for the adjacent City-owned parcels may include decking over the parcels or transfer of surplus development rights from the theater to the parcels, or the parcels to the theater. Respondents may also plan redevelopment of the adjacent City-owned parcels, provided their submissions recognize and adequately address certain existing agreements.

"Restoring the historic Loew's Kings Theater represents an opportunity to create a world-class cultural venue for current and future Brooklynites by bringing back a little piece of yesterday," said Borough President Markowitz. "The return of the Kings will confirm Brooklyn's status as the creative capital of New York City, and when this people's palace is back in the heart of the borough in all its former splendor, it will be a great day for both Brooklynites who have walked her aisles and those who have yet to discover her majesty."

The Loew's Kings Theater opened in 1929 as Loew's flagship theater.
Designed in the French Renaissance style, the theater's architecture
was heavily influenced by the Palace of Versailles and Paris Opera
House. The theater features high curved ceilings, ornate plaster
walls, wood paneling, pink marble, and a glazed terra-cotta ornamental façade—all in keeping with classic movie palace styling. The stage is approximately 70 feet wide by 30 feet deep and has a fly gallery about 80 feet high and a proscenium opening 60 feet wide by 50 feet high.

EDC will use a variety of criteria to evaluate the responses, such as: return to the City; financial feasibility; development team's
qualifications; development plan's relationship to surrounding
community; design; and respondent's satisfaction of development
guidelines. EDC also supports high performance, green building and
sustainable design.

The Flatbush Avenue retail corridor is a major shopping area with many businesses selling clothing, appliances, furniture, food and other goods. The theater is located near Sears, Staples, Old Navy, and a Super Stop and Shop serving the adjacent residential neighborhoods. It is within walking distance of the B and Q trains and numerous bus lines.

There will be an information session and site tour on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 at 10 a.m. at the theater, 1025-1035 Flatbush Avenue, Brooklyn. Please RSVP by calling Anifia Binns at (212) 618-5721 or e-mail abinns@nycedc.com, on or before October 17, 2006. Interested parties are encouraged to attend the information session and site tour. A copy of the RFEI can be obtained by calling (212) 618-5721, or may be downloaded at www.nycedc.com/rfp Responses are due no later than 4 p.m. on Wednesday, December 6, 2006. EDC may select a developer or development team from responses to this RFEI, or may issue a subsequent Request for Proposals (RFP). The RFP may be issued only to developers, or a selection of developers, that responded to the RFEI, so all interested parties are urged to respond to this RFEI.

If you missed the A&E show you can see a snippet on the Loew's Kings by clicking here:

http://www.planetplg.com/docs/LoewsKings.mp4

You'll need pateince and an MP4 player (QuickTime should work).

Dan

Article in today's (10/17/06) New York Post about the city's efforts to save The Loew's Kings theater. Go to www.newyorkpost.com and type in Loew's Kings in the search field to find the article. It looks like the city is finally serious about saving this incredible landmark!

Here's a direct link to the article. As a Queens movie goer, I read this and - while being very happy to see progress being made with the Kings - wonder where were the local politicians to help save the RKO Keith's when we needed them and the place had a fighting chance?!? Shame on the local pols in Flushing!

Unfortunately, the Keiths began it's decline in the 80's already...plunged decline because of it's former owner. The Kings, while it began it's decline, wasn't plunged into it, as it at least only suffered neglect or deferred maitenance, whereas the Keiths was actually attacked and intentionally had aspects of it demolished. The Kings only suffers from time, the Keiths suffered from destruction.

Understood, Bway - and I really don't want to carry on this conversation on the Kings' page - but suffice to say that there was a time when the authorities had the owner on the ropes and could have (had they chosen to do so) held him completely liable for restoring the elements that had been destroyed under his criminally careless and wanton watch. They let him off the hook far too easily and allowed the building to crumble further in the meanwhile.

Great coverage in the NY Post!!! Thanks for posting the link! It's about time politicians are determined to restore and adaptively reuse this "wonder theater." A big thank you to all those who fought. I think the later marquee could be reused someplace else. I'd rather see the original curved marquee located or recreated, and once again adorning the theater's unique facade. That would be a true restoration. What do you think?

I praise efforts to save this theater & Loew's Paradise (now landmarked), but indeed... where were those ruthless politicians when we needed them for the RKO Keith's?? :( I look forward to tracking the progress of the restoration of the Loew's Kings!!! :)

Parts of the original curved marquee may still exist behind the updated one. If you stand under the marquee on Flatbush Ave and look up, it appears that might be the case.

Those updated marquees that Loews installed on the Kings and the Jersey in the late 1940s sure were ugly. I don't mind the squareness so much as that mock-cursive typeface that spelled out the name of the theater. Eeeeew. We're lucky that zoning restrictions on the Grand Concourse ruled out doing such a thing at Loews Paradise in the Bronx.

The city does finally appear to be serious about saving The Loew's Kings. As mentioned in above posts the city has in fact issued a "Request for Expressions of Interest" from developers who are interested in saving The Kings. As part of the process, the city organized a tour of the theater for all people interested in submitting a proposal. I had never previously been to the Kings, but nonetheless I have been following the efforts to save it. I grew up going to Loew's Valencia and have wondrous memories of that palace. It pained me to see that the Kings was the only one of the wonder theaters that was not restored.

Though I was not a potential developer I was allowed to sign up anyway. I had never been to that part of Brooklyn even though I've lived in New York all my life. (Born in the Bronx, raised in Queens, now residing in Manhattan). I was surprised to see how relatively nice the area was. The only empty storefront on Flatbush Avenue was indeed The Kings.

When I walked into the theater, I thought I smelled old popcorn! It wasn't! It was more of a musty smell. :-) The theater truly looked like its been abandoned for 30 years. It must have been an impressive sight in its day and it still is now! The seven chandeliers are spectacular and appear to be mostly intact.

The initial question and answer period was held in the grand foyer in front of the grand staircase leading to the upper level. The Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz, was hosting and told the story of how he had his first unescorted date there and how he wants to save The Kings to be Brooklyn's main performing art center. (I assume he meant after The Academy of Music of course.)

Then the city's economic development people took over. I think there were about a hundred people there and, luckily for the Kings, it appeared that most of the people there were truly there to see what they could do to save this theater. I overheard people talking. Some were from Forest City Ratner. Others were from the firm that restored Kansas City's old train station which apparently was in much worse shape than this theater. I also met an architect who had worked on the restoration of The New Amsterdam in Times Square which is arguably the most spectacular theater in New York. That theater had gaping holes in the ceiling before renovation was undertaken. He felt the Kings, though with many problems, is eminently savable and has great bones. He was looking to find a developer to work with.

We proceeded into the main auditoium and I was in awe of the vastness of the space! It was painful to see the tremendous water damage on parts of the walls. The seats are all there though and, to me, looked quite comfortable. The seats appeared larger than what we have today and the rows had amazing amounts of legroom; much more than you see in today's theaters.

The walk up the grand staircase is majestic. Though the balcony is relatively small, it is spectacularly beautiful. What I found funny is how far away the screen is from the furthest seats in the orchestra and balcony sections. I could never see a movie from these seats! I would need opera glasses.

We also went into one of the basement levels under the grand foyer. It was big enough to have a makeshift basketball court set up. Apparently, the ushers played there between shifts. There is also a basement space beneath the theater itself though we didn't get to see it.

We learned that the exterior vertical Loew's sign that once adorned the theater above the marquee is alive and well and being stored by the city. The city is asking, though not requiring, that the sign be reinstalled with any restoration of the theater. I am in agreement with above posters that the original marquee may be underneath the square one currently in place. You are able to see the curves when you stand underneath the marquee.

Very few of the curtain fabrics in the theater remain though some do.

I also was surprised by how small the candy counter was! It was tiny! I was also surprised at how small the bathrooms were especially for a theater of this size.

It was an incredible expereience to take this tour and I am hopeful that a tangible, functional plan comes about as a result. Brooklyn, a borough of 2.5 million people, has incredibly few performing arts spaces. Let's hope that the city can finally get the ball rolling on this.

Finally, I want to make something very clear that is important to CT members: The city's proposal is very clear on one point: The city's goal is the total restoration of the theater and all of its architecturally significant details. Any development of the surrounding lots and air rights must ensure that the theater is restored!

If anyone who reads this was on the tour as well, please share your thoughts. I'm curious about other perspectives.

Hi Luis! Thank you very much for sharing a detailed personal account. It definitely sounded like a magnificent event! Loew's Kings Theatre is a treasure waiting to be unveiled!!!!!!

Awesome news thanks for your detailed account, sure is good news.

In the Brooklyn section of Todays NY Daily News there is a 2 page article about efforts to restore the Kings including a nice picture of the interior of the theatre.

In the Brooklyn section of Todays NY Daily News there is a 2 page article about efforts to restore the Kings including a nice picture of the interior of the theatre.

The NY Daily News article does not appear to be online :-(. If someone scans it and sends it to me, I'll post it for the others.
dan@planetplg.com

Well, well, well. It FINALLY looks like the proper authorities have seen the KINGS in all its {still existing} glory. There may be issues, but according to the NY Daily News article on 10-31-06 and other recent posts, it seems that this majestic theater will rise like a phoenix from its current state and be the showplace that it SHOULD be!

A video about Loew's Kings, excerpted from the A&E program about the Loew's "Wonder Theatres," can be viewed here:
www.nycedc.com/rfp

The Loew's Kings video is the same one posted by Dan in PLG on Sep 29, 2006 at 4:52pm. It is also the same video in a downloadable form posted by Dan in PLG on Oct 1, 2006 at 8:49am. Getting desperate for comments fella.

i will believe it when i see it ............

"mikemovies," some things are worth repeating, and that was for those who might have missed the previous posts. What have you contributed to Cinema Treasures lately except for your usual off-topic gibberish?

Well fella posting duplicate messages is not contributing. It is called cluttering. Your repeat comments are the same annoyance to other's as is the 'usual off-topic gibberish' that you complain about other's doing. It appears to me that your troublemaking ways surface when you run out of legitimate comments to make. If you have nothing interesting to say then say nothing.

Please guys, can we return to the movie being shown in the Kings? You know how people feel about people talking during movies....

The same we feel about people chattering away and text messaging on those obnoxious cell phones!

"Fanny Hill" was another one of those porno chic movies that played on wide release. Look at the size of this showcase.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/FannyHill1969.jpg

Is there any way one can buy the video on the Wonder Theaters?

A great article on the Loew's Kings appears in the New York Times of November 26, 2006. The link for it is below. FYI, links from the Times only work for a short period of time unless you are a member of their Time Select program.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/nyregion/26theater.html?ref=nyregion

That is a great photograph. Take a look while you can.

Here is hoping there is a happy ending on Flatbush Avenue!

Wow, great article and photo!

Curiously, the printed newspapers of yesterday's NYT carried the same photo, but in B&W. There were also two smaller B&W photos, one showing "potential developers" in the grand lobby, and the other the street entrance with decrepit marquee.

The potential deveoper picture in the Times showed only a few people. I was at the tour in mid October and there were between 50 and 100 people present.

NY Times March 6, 1988
By THOMAS L. WAITE

"The Kings of Flatbush; Movie Palace for Sale

Photographs, blueprints and publicity posters from the Loew's Kings Theater will be displayed at the Urban Center of the Municipal Art Society on Madison Avenue at 50th Street from Friday to April 26. The exhibit is intended to generate interest in the Brooklyn movie palace, which has been silent for a decade. Show hours are Monday through Saturday from 10 A.M. to 6 P.M. and Sunday from 10 A.M. to 5 P.M.

The 3,200-seat theater at 1027 Flatbush Avenue opened in 1928 with stage and screen appearances by Dolores Del Rio. Once the flagship of the Loew's chain, the Kings closed in 1978, and became city property following a tax foreclosure. Many of its Art Deco-Baroque effects have since been stolen. The Public Development Corporation hopes for an imaginative buyer. Judy Orlando, director of commercial revitalization for the Flatbush Development Corporation, the exhibit's sponsor, said: ''The hope is to generate public interest in restoring the theater. I guess the dream is to have someone walk in and say, 'This is wonderful,' and work with P.D.C. to restore the building".

What ever happened to those photographs, blueprints and publicity posters?

This might be one of them. Note the loudspeaker discreetly mounted high among the pillars in left foreground:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/kingsfoyer.jpg

I never realized there was a large rotunda at the head of the lobby. I always thought the entire lobby consisted of the area at back, enclosing the staircase. The lobby is HUGE!

Somewhere along the way, the Times picked up an extra 500 seats in its count for the Kings. While the '88 article reasonably rounds up the total to 3200, the article from last Sunday's paper gives that number at 3600. Also... while this was obviously a significant jewel in the Loew's crown - and no doubt their premiere house in Brooklyn - wouldn't the Loew's State in Times Square have been considered the chain's flagship?

Math was not my great subject... obviously the discrepancy is 400 seats in the Times' count, not 500.

Loew's State held a unique place in Loew's history, due to its emphasis on vaudeville from opening in 1921 until 1947. It was considered the #2 vaudeville stand in the USA up until the early 1930s. when it became #1 due to vaudeville's withdrawal from NYC's Palace. The State was also considered the top Loew's theatre in the New York area due to its Times Square location and physical attachment to the Loew's home office building. But within the industry, it was considered the #2 house because the movies were usually second-run. The real Loew's flasghip was the Capitol, which could not advertise a Loew's connection due to an argreement made when Loew's took over from its original owner...In Brooklyn, the downtown Metropolitan was always considered the Loew's flagshp for that borough from the time it opened in 1917 until "Premiere Showcase" saturation releases began in the 1960s.

Thanks, Warren. I forgot about the Loew's connection to the Capitol and the Metropolitan completely escaped my mind. Architectural splendor aside, the Kings would have been too remote from the downtown hub (and Brooklyn's own "theater district") to have been considered a true flagship for the borough.

Here's another image to add to the one that I posted above on 12/01/06. This staircase to the mezzanine promenade can be seen in the far background of that earlier shot (for which I am repeating the link):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/kingsfoyer2.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/kingsfoyer.jpg

Wow, that's a current photo? It shows how beautiful the building still really is, and a diamond in the rough, just waiting for a little help. Thankfully, the place is completely restorable (expensive, but thankfully totally possible), unlike so many other gems throughout the city....

That last photo of Warren's is from page 94 of the 1980 book "Movie Palaces, Survivors Of An Elegant Era" by Ave Pildas. It is doubtful that the draperies have survived as seen there in the intervening 26 years, sad to say. But 'Bway' is right; the place is restorable.

I thought that was too good to be true! But I do see the draperies in the current photo too, but am sure they need to be replaced. The place still looks elegant, even if needs a little help.

I thought that was too good to be true! But I do see the draperies in the current photo too, but am sure they need to be replaced. The place still looks elegant, even if needs a little help.

A little help? I would guess at least $75 million worth to return it to something close to its original elegance.

I was at the developer's tour (see 10/29 posting). What's left of the draperies are totally ruined and would need to be replaced, but this palace is totally salvagable. What is needed is an economically viable plan and the will to carry it out. The New Amsterdam on 42nd St. in Manhattan was in far worse shape with gaping holes in the ceiling, but today it stands as, arguably, the most beautiful theater in the country. Obviously, the economics of Manhattan are far different than Brooklyn, but that is what the city's economic development authority is trying to resolve. How can they make it work? I pray that they find the answer.

There is realistic hope for the Kings. Brooklyn has changed drastically over the last decade. Older buildings such as the former Board of Education and Williamsburg Savings Bank tower are currently being converted to luxury condos with apartments selling for over one million. A Billion+ entertainment complex is planned for Coney Island, and Brooklyn will have it's own version of Madison Square Garden featuring the Nets. A large cultural center in the middle of Flatbush Ave is viable. The political forces appear to be for it. The time is right. I believe the Kings will be restored.

I too believe that the time is right! These are exciting times for Brooklyn and the future is bright.

Quote:
A little help? I would guess at least $75 million worth to return it to something close to its original elegance.

Perhaps, but a LOT less than it would to restore many of the other theaters in Brooklyn or Queens....that are basically gutted. At least the place is totally salvagable, unlike places like the Flushing Keiths, or perhaps the Loews Shore which are in total shambles. 75 million there probably wouldn't even get places like that eveb a quarter restored/fixed.

I should start getting online more often. I saw those pics and they look promising. They should reopen this beauty.

Let's hope Marty can get some payback from Ratner for supporting his AY project in the form of a Loew's Kings rennovation.

That would be a good idea if the theater is to be used for shows. I mean I really would not like the idea of a theater being used as a banquet hall. It was meant for shows. Furthermore, I am a theater major.

Hello everone, I haven't been on for a while but from what I am reading here, it looks like the Kings will come back. I also agree with everyone else about the original marquee, I saw an aerial photo of the marquee and it looks like some of the original marquee is still there. I would really love to see this theatre fully restored to what it was (with vertical marquee). One question though, how much millions of dollars would it cost to restore it. Also, does anyone know if the Loews Kings still retains its wonder organ? Thanks

The organ is no longer at The Kings. I believe in above posts you can find where it went. I do know that the Wonder Organ from the Paradise is now at The Jersey and that the Wonder Organ from the 175th St. is still in place and fully restored.

Shortyc;
Last I heard it would be over thirty million bucks.

The Kings Robert Morton organ was broken up for parts. The console, however, still exists and at last report was in a private residence in the Chicago area. The only "Wonder organ" still in it's original home is the 175th St. As LuisV said, the organ from the Paradise was moved and reinstalled in Loew's Jersey replacing the original organ that went to the Arlington theatre (former Fox Arlington) in Santa Barbara CA.

Can they get the parts again and put it back together in the building?

It would probably be almost impossible to locate all the original parts, much less get them back to the KINGS, but getting the only visible part, the console, might someday be possible for enough money; almost anything is 'For Sale' for enough money. As for the pipes and relay parts, etc., those could always be fabricated, if need be, if enough money and time are available. The chambers are still there; they have but to be filled, and a number of firms exist that could do the work for a hefty fee.

I'm still wondering if it's worth restoring the Kings.

It's certainly worth restoring this gem. It is mostly intact & the city is willing to take on a long and costly project. By all means, let them do something special for us, once & for all! They have waited long enough.

nativeforest;
Thanx, I was wondering whether I was alone.

You're welcome, Al! You are not alone :)

All one needs to do is read the above postings to see that this theater is worth saving and that it is in good enough shape to be saved. What's different now is that the City's, and indeed Brooklyn's, fortunes are dramatically improved and it may now be feasible to restore this grand theater. That is what the Economic Development Corporation is working on. Gustave, you are most definitely not alone! There are many of us who want to see the Kings rise again.

Luis;
Thanx too. I have a page still running for that http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu
I'm glad to hear that I don't have to take it down.

Re. Bway's last comment, when were you last in the Keith's? :-p

Loew's Diamond Anniversary bookings
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/ChildrenoftheDammed.jpg

My recollection of the Loew’s Kings is a very special one. It is really the essence of what these movie theaters mean to us.

I was in high school in the mid 60s and had a big crush on a girl who I thought was the cutest gal in the world. After weeks of building up my courage, I finally asked her out. Our big night came on 1/30/65…..I never forgot it to this day.

I remember picking up my date and her mom said….”So you young folks are going to movies tonight.” I sheepishly nodded and said “Yes, we are”. She said, “Well, you better not be going to the RKO Kenmore.” I think I knew why she said that at the time, but I acted dumb and asked “Why?”. She quickly answered that the RKO Kenmore was showing “Sex and the Single Girl”. Enough said. I got the message loud and clear.

We then left and walked down Flatbush Ave looking to pick out a movie to see. We finally got to the Loew’s Kings which was showing a movie called “Dear Brigitte”. It was not one of Hollywood’s greatest productions, but it meant the world to me then and still does today.

That’s what movie memories are really all about.

"That's what movie memories are really all about."

- I agree with you entirely! :-) I appreciate it that you shared this story. It's very touching!!! I hope the restoration & reopening of the Loew's Kings comes shortly, now that the city has taken an interest. It will be another grand chapter for many people. I am anticipating my first visit!

During the Brooklyn Borough President's State of the Borough address last week he mentioned all of the grand projects on the agenda in 2007. He talked about Atlantic Yards and the new Nets Arena, the New Coney Island Amusement Park/Condo/Retail project, a second Cruise Ship pier in Red Hook, a new amphitheater (also in Coney Island) and The Brooklyn Bridge Park, among others. Last mentioned, but mentioned prominently nonetheless, was the restoration of the Loew's Kings for use as a performing arts center! Aside from that mention, I haven't heard about any progress after the RFP was due to the city's Economic Development Authority. Does anyone else know where the project currently stands? How many proposals were submitted? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

I'm not sure if this link is a repeat, but here are what appear to be fairly recent photos of the Kings' interior. The photos aren't mine, but I hope who ever owns them doesn't mind them being posted here.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/marioletto/

Did I read that right? Markowitz wants to restore the Kings as a performing arts center?
That's what I hoped would happen.

Gustavelifting.....I was at the tour of the theater given for potential developers back in October (read my posting from 10/29) and Markowitz (ideally) wants the theater to be used for the performing arts. However, the city will listen to all proposals. The one basic requirement for ALL plans is that the theater be restored to it's original splendor. It could be as a theater/performing arts center or as a catering hall, TV production facility, etc. The key is to preserve this historic and vital piece of Brooklyn and Theater history for future generations to enjoy. While I would be greatly disappointed to see the theater used for anything other than movies/entertainment, I would be satisfied to see the building returned to its rightful place as one of Brooklyn's and New York's most beautiful restored landmarks.

p.s. Markowitz said during the presentation that he wanted the Kings to be the premier Performing Arts Center in Brooklyn. I think the people at the Brooklyn Academy of Music would be a bit miffed at that. BAM is and will always be the top performings arts center in Brooklyn and one of the top centers of the city. Nonetheless, in a borough of 2.6MM people there is certainly room for a second world class center. The Loew's Kings should rightly claim that mantle.

What incredible pictures, it's still a beauty.

Those are some of the best photos I have seen yet.

Those are great photos. The building is not in terrible shape: certainly no worse than many others that have been restored.

Well stated, Luis. Your posting pretty well sums up my attitude on the situation.

I think we should all agree with luis V. This theater should be one of the top performing arts places in the borough.

I think we should all agree with luis V. This theater should be one of the top performing arts places in the borough.

I think we should all agree with luis V. This theater should be one of the top performing arts places in the borough.

I think we should all agree with luis V. This theater should be one of the top performing arts places in the borough.

Today's (03/11/2007) N.Y. Times Real Estate section has a story on the Kings:

{Link is free but sign-up may be required}

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/realestate/11SCAP.html?_r=1&ref=realestate&oref=slogin

The most important paragraph in Christopher Gray's article in yesterday's New York Times is probably this one: "Last fall, the New York City Economic Development Corporation asked for suggestions from developers on what to do with the Kings. Andrew Brent, a spokesman for the agency, will say only that more than one proposal has been received and that the city will try to move beyond the initial stage of the project later this spring. In its solicitation, the city noted that the building had suffered 'substantial damage and deterioration.' For instance, the roofs over its retail spaces have collapsed." It should be noted that "more than one" can be a misleading phrase, and could mean as few as two in total.

Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz committed himself to the preservation of Loew's Kings Theatre. Despite some deterioration of the infrastructure (around the time of the guided tour), he indicated he would see to it that it's restored and reopened as part of the neighborhood's revitalization.

Christopher Gray's title of the article is very misleading, and causes me to question who's side he is on. He is a noted historian, but now I am frowning upon his pessimistic attitude and style.

To all Brooklynites, theater enthusiasts, and public officials: Please work together to fulfill your promise to achieve the greatest for one of Brooklyn's "Wonders." Wholeheartedly thanking you in advance!

Regarding the comment in the NY Times article about "substantial damage....the roofs over the retail spaces have collapsed". I find this a misleading statement as well. Yes, the roofs have collapsed, I was present on the developer's tour, but the retail space is a very, very small part of the overall structure. It would take very little money to replace/restore that space. The buidlding as a whole, is not anyway near in bad shape as The New Amsterdam theater was in Manhattan before that magnificent restoration. This structure is totally salvagable and I hope one of the two? plans to restore it is accepted and put in motion.

I think all your statements are right on the money Luis.

Oh my, that was a hatchet job on the poor Kings theatre. Better research could have produced a more accurate article. It was slanted towards giving up on the Kings and not saving it. I am optimistic that the Kings will be saved. Are you listening to us mister Markowitz?

I just wrote them a nasty letter.

I tried to write them a nasty letter, but it did not go through

Do you wish to contact Christopher Gray of the NY Times? His e-mail is: MetHistory@aol.com Let me know if that goes through.

Native;
I just wrote them a letter a few seconds ago, and it seems to have gone through.

Glad it went through this time. Thank you for letting me know!

Maybe other people should use that link and write one.

News to share anyone?

Here's a thought on an economically viable use of LOEW'S KINGS or any other king-sized cinema treasure --- it's so obvious nobody thinks of it: Question: Is movie box office good right now or not? Answer: It's booming! Question: Why did Loew's Kings close? Answer: Extreme high crime, a prolonged slump in box office. With crime rates down, box office up, and a renewed interest in revitalization of Brooklyn, why not consider playing movies on a regular basis in addition to special events. Who wouldn't love seeing that. At today's $11 price, that's a lot of bread-n-butter money.

The #1 box office hit today is "Pirates 3, At World's End." The Walt Disney Company is NOT excluding single screen theatres from their first run of this film. In NYC, it's at the Zeigfeld. We saw it last night in Washington's finest, the Uptown. It's also in single screen theatres in Baltimore, Akron, Los Angeles, etc. Disney has been wonderful not only about the New Amsterdam in NYC, they've restored the El Capitan (Paramount) on Hollywood Blvd and movies play there every day --- incidently across the street from the Chinese Theatre which has never ceased playing movies.

Disney was at one time interested in the old Shore Theater in Coney Island, but that deal fell through a long time ago. I wonder if they would have any itnerest in the Kings. As mentioned they have done wonders for so many theaters already.

the Ziegfeld is closed for a couple weeks, so it will lose less money. There's isn't any chance at all that the Loew's King, built with more than 3000 seats, as a single auditorium, is going to again show new movies. That's like all the suggestions that the Embassy 2-3-4 aka Mayfair would again do so. The Mayfair is being gutted to its bare walls now. Focus on the Loews Kings showcasing live shows....or see it gone.

Even if the Kings was returned to being a single screen cinema, I seriously doubt that distributors would be willing to give it first-run bookings that were exclusive for the entire borough of Brooklyn. Without that protection, the Kings would be unable to withstand the competition. That's what kept the "Big Four" in downtown Brooklyn running in the era prior to the introduction of saturation releases.

I agree with both of you. I guess I was thinking more of Disney using it for some of their shows, perhaps after they leave Broadway, or something like that, and perhaps to use it for cinema premiers and stuff too.

Who's gonna come to that neighborhood ? Haven't been there in years. It used to be great. What's it like now ? What kind of people live there ? Do they even go to the movies ??? It's a long time since I saw "The Legend of Lylah Clare" at the Kings !

Brooklyn has come a long way since the 80's.

The last time i was here was 1989 ....how is the area now?

The last time i was here was 1989 ....how is the area now?

1989? 1985 was perhaps the lowpoint of Brooklyn's history. You wouldn't recognize Brooklyn from 1989....it's back in force.

One of my theaters back then when is was dm was the Kenmore around the block from Kings!

The Kenmore was not "around the block from" the Kings. It was several blocks away, on Church Avenue, and on the opposite side of Flatbush Avenue from the Kings. The Albemarle was the nearest theatre to the Kings.

I did not mean that in a literal way......

As I posted above in October, I was very surprised to see how nice the immediate area around the Kings actually was. As a lifelong New Yorker, I too had heard about how terrible the area was back in the 70's and 80's. On my walk from the subway station to the theater I did not spot a single empty storefront and the streets were clean and orderly. The only time I did see a gaping empty storefront was the reatil space attached to the King's theater itself.

Brooklyn, and pretty much all of New York, has made incredible strides in the last 15 years. Anyone who hasn't been to the "old neighborhoods" would be shocked to see what has happened in Park Slope, Williamsburg, Dumbo, Long Island City, Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, The South Bronx, I could go on and on. A booming economy and the lowest crime rates since the early 60's bode well for projects like the resurrection of The King's. Surely, there is room in a borough of 2.6MM people for a second major performing arts center (after The Brooklyn Academy of Music).

Well said LuisV! I don't think there's much doubt that Brooklyn can handle a second performing arts center, but the hurdle is dealing with the sizeable capital investment required to get the Kings back in operation. And then finding a use for it that will pump in sufficient revenue to keep it going. Those aren't small problems, but I share your optimism that the Kings can live again. Seems like many people are in favor of it, and very few opposed to it.

I hear through the rumor mill that an announcement is expected to be made by Borough President Marty Markowitz in July regarding the future of The Kings. I'm assuming that means that the city will announce that a developer has been selected based of the RFP that the city requested back in the Fall of 2006. Let's keep our fingers crossed! Markowitz was present the day that I toured the theater and he seemed genuinely determined that this theater be saved. Actions, however, speak louder than words.

Do they ever.

I darn well hope that they reopen the Kings

Guys, when is the next tour?

I don't think that there will be any more group tours unless the last one failed to attract a developer. I suppose that you could arrange a private tour if you could prove that you had access to the multi-millions of dollars needed to do something with the property.

Is this the theatre I see close by when I get off the "B" train and exit at the west end of the Prospect Park station?

I don't think that the Kings is near the Prospect Park station of the "B" train. And the Kings is still plainly marked with its name and marquee, so you would almost certainly recognize it.

Thanks, Warren

I am urgently trying to find photos of the original architecture of Loew's Kings Movie Theatre. It is for a book we are publishing on New York City and I would be really grateful if anyone could let me knoow of any photos they may have seen or know exist.

Many thanks... nj@glorialuxury.com

Theatre Historical Society of America has probably the largest collection of photos of Loew's Kings and leases them for publication at reasonable rates. You can reach them through their website at www.historictheatres.org

brilliant. Thanks so much

brilliant. Thanks so much

Just like LOEW'S KINGS, LOEW'S PARADISE has thousands of words on this website about restoring and reopening the theatre. Now at long last someone spent $4.5 million and reopened it with occasional live stage shows. However, I think I was the only person to post a message on the PARADIDE page saying we'd actually attended a show there since the reopening. I don't live in the Bronx. It's 525 miles round trip to the Bronx. My question is: for all the YACK! YACK! are any of you going to attend LOEW'S KINGS if it reopens, or are you all just empty barrels making noise?

I doubt that anyone would buy a ticket and travel any distance to a theatre unless that theatre was presenting something that the person is interested in seeing. If the Kings ever re-opens, I would certainly go there under those conditions, otherwise probably not.

Yeah, I live many states away. I wouldn't make a trip to Brooklyn just to see the latest Broadway musical. I would, on the other hand, send a contribution to the theatre if someone ran a legitimate capital drive.

What is the evidence to support the introductory credit that C.W. Rapp was one of the architects of the Kings? Mr. Rapp died on June 28th, 1926, more than three years before the Kings opened.

Can anyone confirm or deny this astonishing claim that someone posted to the Across the Park blog:

"I understand that a developer has been found to rebuild and reopen the Loews Kings. It is a German company (Reichswerks) which specializes in urban areas. They have done similar work in Amsterdam and Naples. They will partner with an Amercian firm, possibly Disney, as this would be their first project in the USA."

Posted by: Brooklyn Born | August 26, 2007 at 06:13 PM

That's a very Nazi sounding name now that i think about it. Perhaps this was a hoax post?

Dan, Dan, Dan.

Memoirs of a Movie Palace will be shown on Saturday, September 15 at the Portage Theater in Chicago, IL as part of the "Preserving Palaces" documentary film festival, along with The Wizard of Austin Boulevard and Loew's Paradise Theatre. The festival begins on Friday, September 14 with Uptown: Portrait of a Palace and Preserve Me a Seat (chronicling efforts to save the Indian Hills in Omaha, Gayety/Publix in Boston, DuPage in Lombard, and Villa in Salt Lake City). A theatre preservation discussion panel will follow the films on Saturday night. For complete information, visit www.portagetheater.org.

I have just sent an e-mail to the New York Economic Development Corporation asking for the status of the Loew's Kings redevelopment. Markowitz was supposed to make an announcement in July, but.................

I'll report back as soon as I get any news.

Luis, don't hold your breath while you're waiting!

Don't I know it! :-)
Nonetheless, I thought it was worth a shot.

Hey Warren, I got an e-mail back from the NYEDC with a contact name and number. Rather than call him I sent a detail e-mail asking where the process stands on the redevelopment of the Kings so that I could keep the CT public up to date. I'll post the response as soon as I hear back.

I would also like to be kept informed on this.

Luis, I hope that I'm wrong, but I think that Markowitz's office has simply "passed the buck."

If I don't get a response by Thursday, I will give him a call.

I just hope he does something. Brooklyn could use a real entertainment center, and, being an old vaudeville house, the Kings could do.

After a long absence, I am back on CinemaTreasures! Unfortunately, I lost my password and no matter how many attempts I made to reach CT, they never got back to me.

Anyway, there seems to be some doubt here on CT as to Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz's true intentions toward restoring and reopening the Loew's Kings. I have talked
to Markowitz and he has assured me that he is indeed serious. He wants to see the theater
used as a Center for the Performing Arts and not become a multiplex, catering hall or some
kind of TV Production Studio facility.

As far as the theater owner, NYC Economic Development Corporation. They have received
bids and are reviewing their applications.

In fact, today, I was contacted today by the NY Daily News. They are researching a possible new article on the Kings and are very interested in any response to the RFEI (Request for Expression Of Interest). The News was told by EDC that the city plans to conduct a cost analysis and marketing study. This must be considered progress---it's slow---but progress!

And yet, Staten Island has the St. George, and Jersey City has the Loew's Jersey ! Disgraceful !
Meanwhile, Markowitz sucks up to that homophobe Noach Dear, and runs around to strret fairs stuffing his FACE !

Come on Brooklyn get your act together. Of the five Loew's Wonder Theatres the Loew's Kings the greatest of them all has yet to make any progress. Loew's Valencia which is in good shape is a Church in Queens, Loew's Paradise in the Bronx has been restored and is being used for concerts, Loew's Jersey is slowly being restored as a home of classic film and concerts,Loew's 175th Street in Manhattan is a church and is fast becoming one of the cities hottest concert halls and then Loew's Kings in the Brooklyn just sits there.Brooklyn has a very large population and is making a comeback commercially and has very few active theatres. I think Brooklyn should spend some seed money and stabilize this theatre so it doesn't decline any further. Maybe Brooklyn should restore a section of the theatre to show people what it could look like restored. I have said this before the Kings is one of the most beautiful theatres I have ever seen and I have seen many.brucec

To: Brucec
From: Bruce1

re: The Loew's Kings

You talk about 'seed money' to prevent any further damage to the Loew's Kings. As you may know, the former Borough President, Howard Golden spent the money for a new roof and pointing of the bricks. Also, EDC (Economic Development Corporatin) shored up the terracotta facade with steel bracing and removed the vertical marquee which was in danger of falling.

As far as the current Brooklyn Borough President, he is not only determined but enthusiastic about saving the Loew's Kings and seeing it reopened as a Center for the Performing Arts.

Well, he better hurry up ! He's only got a couple more years in office, and time is gonna do more damage ! Meanwhile, kids jam the St. George to see "Peter Pan" live, Tony Bennett & Connie Francis will do concerts there, and Farley Granger appears onstage at the Loew's Jersey ! Brooklyn don't need no damn basketball stadium at the busiest traffic intersection !!! Cate Blanchett & Lynn Redgrave came to Brooklyn because the Majestic was restored, so wake the hell up, Brooklyn !!!

Very disapointing article about the "Kings" in today's NY Daily News. Marty admits that probably he will be out of office by the time any renovation work is started if any.

Here is the URL for the online version of that article: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2007/12/04/2007-12-04_famed_loews_kings_movie_palace_remains_s.html

“Famed Loews Kings Movie Palace Remains Shut Despite Efforts”
by Elizabeth Hays, Daily News Staff Writer.
Tuesday, December 4th, 2007, 4:00 a.m. (New York)

The Loews Kings movie palace on Flatbush Ave. may not be opening its doors anytime soon.

More than a year after city officials launched another round of proposals to reopen the grandiose theater - one of the city's five original "Wonder Theaters" - there is still no word on what will happen.

Meanwhile, Borough President Marty Markowitz, who has made reopening the Art Deco gem a pet project during his time in office, acknowledged that the theater will likely not be renovated before he steps down in 2009.

"That's becoming increasingly unlikely," said Markowitz spokesman Mark Zustovich.

The latest push to reopen the fabled theater, which has been closed for 30 years, began last fall when city officials gave developers a tour of the 3,000-seat auditorium, which is outfitted with chandeliers and mahogany paneling, and asked for proposals for turning it into a performing arts space.

But 13 months later, officials said they can't discuss how many responses they got and what was proposed.

They also insisted they now have to study how much it would cost to renovate the 78-year-old theater - which has been damaged by years of neglect, water damage and vandalism - and analyze what kinds of programs would work there.

"We're taking time to make sure that we have the information we need to inform our next steps," said NYC Economic Development Corp. spokeswoman Janel Patterson, adding the group hopes to have the studies done by the end of the year.

The sluggish pace has sparked worry among locals, who fear the project could fizzle again, as it did in 1999 when a multiplex plan submitted by Magic Johnson suddenly fell through.

"There have been so many stories, so many people interested and nothing has happened," said Jack Katz, head of the Flatbush Avenue Business Improvement District.

Experts said the project is difficult - and expensive.

"It's risky and it's not cheap," said Eric Greenfield, a broker for Massey Knakal who specializes in Flatbush. "Right now that part of Flatbush won't be able to sustain something like that."

Kevin Robinette, a prominent architect from Ohio who went on the tour last fall, said his firm decided to walk away. "We felt that it was too much of a long shot," said Robinette.

In the meantime, local merchants and residents said they are sick of seeing so much potential go to waste. "It's lovely. They need to do something with it," said Mamadou Bah, a vendor across the street. "They need to stop wasting time."

You know I hate to say this but I think the main stumbling block here is the city. Its a shame that they took ownership of the place . I know much has been said about what we don't want the place to become but a performance type TV studio (programming requiring an audience)isn't such a bad idea or it could certainly be used as a movie location. The city is looking for someone who can come it with buckets of money and rehab the place. That kind of money just doesn't come in for a performing arts center. We hear all of these stories in the press about the incredible amount of pork barrel spending our elected officials get for their areas. How about Marty petitioning local politicians for a couple of million (not much if you look at the amounts some groups get) the Kings way to fix the roof to prevent further damage and the lighting. Then let volunteers deal with the rest. Tall order? Sure but it is better than nothing. Look at the Loew's Jersey. I know that building was in much better shape to start with but at least they are giving it a go. Does this sound like something that could heppen......Marty are you listening??????

The neighborhood is still a lower middle-class area. Folks from the wealthier neighborhoods west of Ocean Avenue aren't in the habit of shopping on Flatbush Avenue. Markowitz can't be faulted. He can't invent interest in the theater. The statement by Kevin Robinette, the Ohio architect says alot - "We felt that it was too much of a long shot." How much more money can NYC be expected to pump into the building just to keep it from literally falling apart?

"But 13 months later, officials said they can't discuss how many responses they got and what was proposed." Sad to say, it sounds like very few were interested.

I'm not faulting Markowitz, the city certainly has limited resources. I was wondering what could be done on the federal level. They spend millions of dollars on studying the sleeping habits of rare breeds of birds so why not put some money into something that would truly benefit many (people that is.) Maybe if they had done that in the beginning instead of waiting for the white knight things wouldn't be so grave.

It would be a pleasure to see this theater actually brought back to life as it once was in its glory years.

Go online for the nydailynews.com and search for Loew's Kings. There is an article today that does not present much hope for the future of this fabled movie/vaudeville palace. However, please note
that, in my opinion, Marty Markowitz has tried and continues to try very hard to move the project forward. However, NYC Economic Development Corporation has already missed two deadlines for
their feasibility and cost studies. When Marty says, he doesn't think the theater will reopen by the
time he leaves office in 2009---we should understand that it could take at least two years for the
work to be done--before any opening date.
Bruce1

I'm very saddened by the article in The News this morning. I do fault Markowitz. He said on MANY ocassions that he would get the restoration off the ground. Each Borough President has a budget to "earmark" projects within their jurisdictions. If there ever was a project that Markowitz should fund, it is the restoration of The Kings. He keeps talking about how passionate he is to this project. let him put his money where his mouth is! Yes, it is going to cost a lot of money. The Borough and City will have to subsidize its development just as they did for The Amsterdam theater on 42nd St. in Manhattan.

People forget that the New Amsterdam's restoration on 42nd St. was heavily subsidized by the city as well. 42nd was a desolate cesspool in the early 90's and there was no guarantee that this project would be a financial success. Today, it is (in my opinion) the single most beautiful theater in New York. A fully restored Kings would easily be in the top three.

There are many worthy projects in New York, but the Kings should be on the top of the list for both Brooklyn and Manhattan. It truly is one of New York's architectural jewels and the only one of the five Wonder Theaters that has not been restored. Many might argue that the Kings was the best of them all, which makes its current state all the more trajic.

I also don't buy the argument that because the neighborhood around the Kings is "lower middle class" that any project wouldn't be viable. If you create a class project the people will come. The Jersey is in Journal Square for god's sake; hardly a high end nabe. The Paradise is in the Bronx; the newly restored St. George on Staten Island is in the gentrifying (I'm being kind) neighborhood of Stapleton and that theater is doing great!

Brooklyn has almost 2.5MM people. Surely, it can support a preformang arts center that would complement the Brooklyn Academy of Music and the forthcoming Barclay Center. There is ample room for all three.

I agree with LuisV. Many successful theater or PAC's are in less than stellar neighborhoods. If you build it, they will come certainly would apply in this case. The restoration of the theater could be the starting point of a neighborhood renaissance. When others see that money is being spent, that will encourage more people to take a chance.

Look at NJPAC - it's located in downtown Newark (hardly a bastion of culture or "high society", and a very intimidating locale)... but its continued and proven success in attracting an upscale “element” of outsiders, willing to travel and seek out quality entertainment, has no doubt paved the way for further development, including venues such as the 300-million-plus-dollar Prudential Center arena. Developers will flock to impoverished areas with high-cost projects (which always pose a risk) if they are offered the right incentives and are able to see the potential payoff to their risk.

If the NYC’s EDC were able (or willing) to take a leadership role by sponsoring or helping to organize a non-profit entity to begin project planning, restoration and redevelopment work on this theatre (and the surrounding area) as a major arts & entertainment center or “destination”, I am sure that they would be able to attract and secure the grants and/or investors crucial to this endeavor.

Maybe I am too much of an optimist? Maybe from the indications I have seen, I still believe that Marty Markowitz is sincere and is doing everything possible!

As much as I respect the opinions of those who seem 'angry' at the lack of progress, I would ask
those individuals to help find a developer or theater operator who sees the potential. Writing on
this message board is only a first step. Let's see how much you are willing to DO! Why not make
contact with Markowitz? Why not contact EDC? Why not help to find a developer? Complaining
is not enough!

Bruce1, with all due respect, I was present at The Kings developer site tour when Markowitz regaled us with his memories of The Kings and how he vowed he would make this project happen! As I mentioned in an earlier post, all Borough Presidents have discretionary funds to apply to pet projects in their districts. Why has he not applied a significant sum to The Kings if he truly wants this project to happen. It WAS the EDC's job to find a developer. They are the ones with the contacts and the access to all of the info that a developer would need to put a proposal together. We do not have those resources at our disposal. The fact that they were unable to broker a deal speaks volumes.

This means one thing and one thing only. The Borough, the City and maybe even Bloomberg himself have got to put together a financial subsidy signifcant enough to make this project financially feasible. This is what was done for The New Amsterdam and that is when Disney pulled the trigger. On the city's part, it was money very well spent.

Markowitz must do more!

Again LuisV is right on the money, no pun intended. If there was some seed money to get the roof fixed to prevent further damage that would be a start. It may not be the same as committing 35 million dollars for a total renovation but it would show others that there is interest. I can only imagine what people must have thought when they saw the building last year. It does look like the EDC is just looking for someone to take The Kings off their hands.

TonyM...It was incredibly beautiful even in its decayed state. If you scroll up above to the comments from October/November of '06 you'll find my post of the my experience on the tour. This theater is in way better shape than the New Amsterdam was at its nadir.

LuisV,
During the administration of Borough President Howard Golden, a new roof was installed. What
fell was a small roof above the old headquarters of the Flatbush Development Corporation. It's
now an empty lot--the roof collapsed and the city leveled the two store fronts. However, to my
knowledge, no further damage has resulted over the theater itself.

I would think that the city and the Borough would and should be working on putting together a
subsidy that would encourage a developer to take on the project. However, since none of us are
privy to such information, we shouldn't necessarily think that this is not a work in progress.

One thing is for sure and that is no developer or theater operator will create a NEW theater with
the architectural elements and acoustics of the Loew's Kings.

Just because it was EDC's job to find a qualified developer, that does not mean that WE can't
make contact with a developer and convince them of the economic feasibility of this project.

LuisV,
During the administration of Borough President Howard Golden, a new roof was installed. What
fell was a small roof above the old headquarters of the Flatbush Development Corporation. It's
now an empty lot--the roof collapsed and the city leveled the two store fronts. However, to my
knowledge, no further damage has resulted over the theater itself.

I would think that the city and the Borough would and should be working on putting together a
subsidy that would encourage a developer to take on the project. However, since none of us are
privy to such information, we shouldn't necessarily think that this is not a work in progress.

One thing is for sure and that is no developer or theater operator will create a NEW theater with
the architectural elements and acoustics of the Loew's Kings.

Just because it was EDC's job to find a qualified developer, that does not mean that WE can't
make contact with a developer and convince them of the economic feasibility of this project.

The introduction needs correcting. Under "Seats," 3,192 are reported, but the second paragraph of remarks claims "nearly 3,700." I believe that 3,192 is the accurate figure, as reported in numerous trade directories and books about theatre history. Most of the Kings' seats are on the main floor, which I think is one of the drawbacks to restoration as a performing arts center. The upstairs seating is limited and also a considerable distance from the stage. That was one of the reasons why Loew's Kings dropped stage shows within months of opening.

Like the Uptown in Chicago the City needs to spend some money to get the Kings operational with some cosmetic work and then more companies would be interested. The city should offer a huge tax credit to any investor willing to take the Kings. The Kings is the most beautiful theatre I have seen still standing in NYC. If I were the city I would restore the theatre facade and marquee for curb appeal and stabalize the interior and do some cosmetic work to get the theatre back on its feet. Full restoration could be done at a later time and over a period of years. I look at the volunteer work that is done at the Loew's Jersey as the theatre is being restored in stages over a period of years as an example. Every theatre restoration takes a different path but there are many examples out there. The huge Fox in Oakland sat empty for nearly 40 years and now is being restored with a charter school wrapping around the theatre. It took ex mayor Jerry Brown to get the ball rolling. The theare will reopen next year as a theatre for rock concerts a market that is exploding and looking for theatres seating between 2000 to 6000 seats. Most musical acts today can't fill arena's seating 18,000 such as Madison Square Garden. Brooklyn is five times larger than the City of Oakland which will have two huge restored movie palaces seating over 3000 the Paramount and Fox-Oakland. I realize that Brooklyn has Manhattan for competition but Oakland has San Francisco. Im sure the Kings would qualify for State and Federal grants being located in a depressed area of Brooklyn.brucec

Bruce1...my sentiments exactly. A big tax credit coupled with some seed money (from Marty Markowitz's earmark budget) to at least fully restore the marquee for example. I agree that the actual restoration work could take years under a similar setup that The Loews Jersey has in place. Though I live in Manhattan, I would gladly do volunteer work to help the Kings get back on its feet.

I'm glad that you think that the Kings is the most beautiful theater still standing in New York. My personal vote would be The New Amsterdam, followed by The Hollywood and Radio City. I have not yet had the opportnity to see the restored jewels of The Paradise in The Bronx and Loews 175th St. in Washington Heights, but from the photos that I've seen they would be top contenders as well. I will be atteding a show at The St. George in Staten Island this weekend and, from what I hear, they've done an incredible restoration with this theater. The Valencia, in Jamaica, has had its interior repainted in garish colors, though the theater itself is spectacular. Have I missed any other major candidates for best movie palace still standing?

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I would consider the Kings (even in its current decayed state) among the top 5 most beautiful movie palaces remaining in NYC. Fully restored, I think it would move into the top 3!

Warren,
According to the actual certificate of occupancy, the exact number was 3,692. However in the 60's the number was reduced to 3,192. As you said, most of the seating is on the orchestra floor and
the mezzanine/balcony only contains 899.

At the two sides of each aisle of seats are magnificent iron 'standards'--but only upstairs. For the
orchestra, the decorative design team used flat wooden panels.

One of the things that I find most interesting, aside from this being a cathedral of the ornate is the
air cooling system in the basement. Over the years it was updated, but much of the original stuff
is still there! They had two giant tanks that filled with water (from an underground contributory of the Connecticut River.) Then there is a plenum chamber with an air-lock type door similar to what
you might find in a submarine. Then inside the chamber we have a giant (12 foot high) fan and a labyrinth of pierced piping on the ceiling. This allowed for the water to be pumped through those pipes and create a shower into the room. Now, we had a cylinder filled with CO2. (This was the forerunner of FREON. So the cold CO2 mixed with the water shower and the giant fan to create a steady stream of cold air that was then pumped through an elaborate maze of vents throughout
the theater.

Some years ago I checked with the Smithsonian and was told that such a system is rare today but could also be found in vintage buildings around the country and mansions for the very rich.

On the wall of the chamber can be found a certificate from the York Air Cooling Company. They
were the forerunner of York Air Conditioning.

LuisV
Have you ever toured a 'former' theater? While driving in the older neighborhoods, look to the roof line and you'll see what used to be a movie/vaudeville house. Today it might be a supermarket or
it might be a Rite Aid or it might be an alternative high school. However, if you can talk your way behind the frozen food or the vegetable bins, you will find remnants of theater architecture. One time in Brooklyn, I found the long forgotten 'RKO Prospect'. My father was a musician and actually played vaudeville here. I went behind the frozen food and up a steel ladder. When I exited onto a
second floor, I found myself in the men's room of the theater. Actually, I climbed through a sky- light. I know that sounds funny, but yes there was a skylight where you exited (not to the roof) but into the mezzanine bathroom. Upstairs I found the ornate theater walls and what I would call the stadium seating. The seats were gone, but the concrete 'steps' design proved that each was 18" higher than the one below. Thus providing that every seat was a good seat. Multiplex theater operators claim that this is a brand new innovation but it was around way back in the 1920's when the RKO Prospect was built.

Wow Bruce, what a great story! I'm always on the lookout for what might have been former theaters. Whenever I see one I look on this site to see what info is available. Many of the theaters of my youth have been converted into other uses. The Lefferts, Casino, RKO Alden, Crossbay, and many others. The buildings are still there. From what I've read on many other theater sites on CT, there are quite a few retail spaces where, if you know where to look or who to ask, you can see parts of the theater that are not being used for retail. I believe this applies to Loew's Canal and RKO Alden among others.

I don't think any experience though will surpass the one I had when I toured The Kings last year when the EDC had their tour. It was an experience I'll never forget. I never attended the Kings when it was showing films as I was only 17 at the time and lived in Queens. Back then, there was no way I would ever go to Brooklyn to attend a movie. I would have considered it way to dangerous. Times have changed!

Tomorrow, I'm attending a show for the first time at The St. George in Staten Island. I'm very excited about it. I hope one day to be able to say "I'm going to see a show at The Kings!"

Bruce - I know you have been to the theater numerous times. What you describe about the A/C system are just the kinds of things I am interested in. I want to see the stage rigging, the lifts, basement, attic, etc. Those are the things that interest me the most in these old theaters. It would be great to get in there and really document not just what theatergoers saw years ago but what they didn't. I work in television and have a good DVCAM camera and a nice digital SLR. If you can ever get in for a good amount of time, please let me know I would love to shoot it all. Maybe we could do a piece similar to what A&E did but much more in depth.

I think you should all know, and I don't know if it's mentioned here, that there is a documentary on the Loew's Kings on you tube.

Here's another little known story about the Loew's Kings. If you go backstage and look on the back wall, you'll see iron doors that slide open. These doors lead to the dressing room floors, however
there is no staircase leading to these doors! So how were they used? Steamer trunks and luggage
were lifted and pulled to safety by the back stage crew. There was no elevator and this was the best way of getting the vaudeville stars suitcases up to their dressing rooms.

In fact, there is one dressing room that looks different from the rest. The walls were painted black
along with a refrigerator. Then over the paint job, there were glitter decals. Obviously this was not
done during the vaudeville era. We can only assume that the decorative touches were added during
the 60's or 70's.

Wait! Here's another curiosity!! If you go into the basement you will find the dual entrances to the orchestra pit. The pit is encased in a 'box' that served as an elevator to raise the musicians up and
put them in position. Then backstage next to the lighting board, you would find a primitive control panel that would control this elevator. The doors to the 'elevator' were always open, but one time,
I found them CLOSED. What was strange, they were locked from the inside. This led me to believe
that this was done by homeless folk who had taken up residence inside the orchestra pit.

One door for the orchestra and the other for the organ. Jeez you're really whetting my appetite. Are there any stage elevators or trap doors? Is there a possibility to get in to get pictures????

Just by coincidence I was going through my copy of "The Best Remaining Seats" by Ben M Hall again and spotted the photo reported to have been taken just prior to the opening of Loew's Kings in 1929. The photo shows the following, all on separate lifts in the pit; orchestra on one lift, the organ console on it's lift and grand piano on it's lift. These could be raised or lowered individually to various levels; e.g. movie, overture or stage height. On the stage was a band car, capable of holding the entire orchestra on yet another lift, plus another full width lift upstage from that. That's a lot of machinery.

I would debate the introductory remark that the Kings was the Loew's "flagship" for Brooklyn. That honor should go to Loew's Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn.

At this point, there will not be any opportunity of getting into the Kings for a photo opportunity. However, if I hear of any such future event--certainly, I will alert you.

I knew about the orchestra pit-lift and the separate organ lift, but was not aware of the piano's
own lift. The piano now sits backstage, but on two legs. The screen has been slashed and has
been raised along with the asbestos curtain and the 'birds'. There are two more stage lifts that
were used to raise scenery and performers.

Let's not lose hope! Many of us have waited this long and maybe the situation will improve??

Maybe one of you will have better luck than me, but I can't find any mention of the Loew's Kings on the NYCEDC website:

NYCEDC Projects

You're right. I searched the site and only found a December 2006 issue of NYCVision that made mention of the Kings. Other than that, there is nothing.

Shortly after the Kings closed in 1979, a local organization, The Flatbush Development Corporation was given custodial control. At which time, they produced a fund raiser show on stage. Each of the participants wore a straw hat and after all these years, those hats remain backstage. Unfortunately, their show was interrupted by a spotlight in the booth which caught fire.

Through the years, thieves have walked off with wall sconces, brass railings and even copper pipes from the bathrooms! Unfortunately, what you might call 'security' hasn't been very successful.

Down in the basement, there remains a projection/screening room where films were shown. Also, the stage lift mechanicals remain. One motor is covered with a white banner with gold tassel and a slogan suggesting 'Buy War Bonds'. This dates back to WWII.

In Bruce1's post on December 7, he says the original C of O seating was 3,692, reduced to 3,192 in the sixties. Is it likely that the 3,692 figure was a typo or misreading from long ago, and that the theater always had 3,192 seats?

Bruce - I am enjoying your behind the scenes info on the theater. Please keep it coming. I know most on this list would like to see the theater totally restored and indeed that would be the best situation but I still think that having local politicians try and find funding to fix the roof which, even though it was replaced some years back, still leaks. Also get at least the air handlers working to keep fresh air circulating. Then enlist volunteers, as a not for profit entity, to slowly clean and get the place back. Of course this wouldn't fix the major water damage on house left of the auditorium, but it would help. It sounds crazy I know but that is probably a lot more feasible than trying to find the deep pockets necessary to do a total restoration for a fraction of the return on investment.

Sorry, the main plaster damage, by most pictures I've seen, is on the right side of the auditorium.

Yet another fix-up cost to consider:

Due to the ravages of weather and time, large sections of the theatre have suffered severe water damage. Obviously, repairing and/or replacing the roof may stop it from continuing further, but what about the lingering effects?

Before sending ANYONE in there to begin repair work, the entire place would first require thorough mold and mildew abatement and clean up, a VERY expensive process usually undertaken by specially trained and equipped professionals. It is well known and documented that long-term exposure to such (especially without proper protection or ventilation) poses health risks.

Furthermore, the NYC Departments of Health and Environmental Protection, along with OSHA, would probably require air quality testing and monitoring, before and after, to determine the potential for such risks. This would cost even more time and money.

It would become a liability issue to allow volunteers, contractors and others to perform thousands of hours of extensive labor in a setting that many would consider to be “bio-hazardous”. The last thing the City wants (or needs) is another “Ground-Zero”-type scenario on its hands.

The original C of O is very clear and states the seat count at 3,692. During the 60's Loew's wanted to increase the leg room of the orchestra and reduced the number of seats.

To my knowledge, the leaking roof was fixed properly. The separate roof that covered the old store
fronts (once used by Flatbush Development Corporation) totally collapsed and all remains of the old stores has been removed. Therefore, we have a chain linked fence and an empty lot to the right of the theater entrance.

As far as Tom's suggestions, they seem logical to me and I would suggest such ideas be sent to the Brooklyn Borough President. (askmarty@brooklynbp.nyc.gov)

Nostalgia Department:
Back in the early 60s, two robbers forced the Assistant Manager into the theater's safe. The lady manager had already left for the evening and she was the only one with the combination. When
she arrived and opened the safe, the AM was gasping for air. She promptly suggested that they
install a phone inside the safe, to which the AM replied: 'Thanks a lot!'

Also in the late 60s a film entitled 'Bob and Ted, Carol and Alice' that starred Robert Culp and Elliot
Gould (at the time, spouse of Streisand) Natalie Wood and Dyan Cannon. The theater manager, that
incredibly creative Dorothy Solomon Panzica (now 90 years young) came up with a promotion idea. She convinced a furniture store across from the theater to put a bed in the window with four naked mannequins and combined this with a contest to win free tickets. What the heck? She had 3,192
seats!! Brooklyn Boy: Paul Mizursky wrote the film!

Point(s) well taken. I've heard there already has been testing as far as asbestos, mold, etc. and all came up low or within limits. Even if it had to be repeated, it is still cheaper to find out just what you're looking at in terms of short and long term renovations. The overwhelming fact is that nothing is being done and the building just sits there rotting away. Since ownership resides with the City, they are the ones who have to take the lead.

Not much here either at the Bklyn Boro Pres site, this link brings up a page which references a dead link.

http://www.brooklyn-usa.org/Pages/RSC/Loews_Kings.htm

I hate to be cynical but maybe at this point the city wants the Kings to become structurally unsound thus requiring demolition. If they wanted to fix the roof it would have been done years ago. It's expensive but not prohibitive. The lack of interest shown by developers is a bad sign. The Loew's Kings is sliding off of everyones radar. Markowitz tried but he's only one person. The NYCEDC has never been know for it's ability to get much done.

With the Kings gone the block could be redeveloped with modern buildings on the tax rolls. Cynical but not an impossible scenario.

I found an old NYCEDC press release from 2006, nothing more recent. Deadline for proposals was in late 2006. Looks like it's a dead issue again.

NYCEDC press release, 2006

Similar item from Mayor's Film office announcing RFP, 2006

Bruce,

Happy New Year to all. Since you were so kind to explain about the orchestra lifts I was wondering what you can tell us about the stage lifts? How far into the basement do they go? The pictures from the October '06 open house show what looks like a total collapse of the stage, or has a lift(s) been lowered?

Some possible good news to report! I saw this article below on curbed.com (a major real estate news website in New York) commenting on a potential theater operator interested in The Kings. The source of the article is a local paper called The Brooklyn Junction. The source of the actual information is not provided though they say it is not the NYC Economic Development Authority. Please see below....


Thursday, January 10, 2008
Major theater operator expresses interest in Loew's Kings Theater redevelopment

A ranking city official told Brooklyn Junction that he has personal knowledge of a "Major theater operator that has expressed interest in redeveloping the Loew's Kings Theater." The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the proceedings.

The source is not an employee of the Economic Development Corporation (EDC), the body which is in charge of reviewing responses to the RFEI (request for expressions of interest) the city put out on the Loew's Kings back in September, 2006. He has, nonetheless, been privy to official conversations on the matter.

The "major theater operator" currently expressing interest has, according to the source, enlisted a marketing company to hold focus groups and to study what sort of programming could be supported at the theater.

The source suggested that the EDC, before announcing anything about this proposal, "is trying to put everything together--dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's--because of how previous proposals for the redevelopment of the theater have fallen apart in the past."

Magic Johnson, the former NBA star, had a plan in 1999 to redevelop the theater as a multiplex. That proposal, which you can read about from the New York Times archives here, is probably the best known plan that fell apart at a late hour.

The estimated cost to physically renovate the theater, which has been lying dormant for approximately 30 years, and shows it in mold, dampness and other wear and tear, is in the neighborhood of 20-40 million dollars.

Brooklyn Junction was unable to independently confirm this report, and would therefore urge readers to consider it to be the reporting on one source's information, credible though that source is.

If any readers can confirm, deny, add, subtract, or opine on this report, please do so in the comments.

Read some of my other posts on the subject
A&E Video on Loew's Kings
Loew's Kings, the plot thickens
Loew's Kings Theater: Is there hope?

posted by Brooklyn Junction at 8:00 AM

LuisV, do you have a link to the curbed.com story?

The curbed.com site is a bit of a jumble but I found the blog entry you quoted. Doesn't sound too "official" though. In a previous post I note that the LK project seems to have faded away as far as the slow poke NYCEDC is concerned.

http://brooklynjunction.blogspot.com/2008/01/major-theater-operator-expresses.html

Tom M: I was referring to the stage lifts. There being two that are controlled by 'cork screws' that are topped by pizza trays and gears that are connected to a motor. As far as the orchestra lift, there are two. One controlled the up and down direction of the house organ and the other allowed the lift to bring the orchestra from the basement up to stage/show level. If you were backstage and standing by the really ancient lighting board, you would see a vertical panel that has three buttons. UP, DOWN and Stage Level. From this position, the technician controlled the movement of the orchestra pit.

I have been down in the basement many times and once, I found that the orchestra pit's two doors were locked from the inside. In the past, they were not locked. So who could have locked them from the inside---other than the homeless crowd that made off with all the wall sconces and brass sink pipes!!!

I read an article on page 2 of saturday March 15 New York Post, which states that the boro president of Brooklyn wants this theatre renovated by 2010. The city is supposed to be getting bids on the cost of renovation, in the neighborhood of $70 million. Lets hope it gets done this time. 30 years is long enough to wait.

"Wants" doesn't mean much in today's world. 2010 is less than two years away. Will the borough president still be in office by that time?

I don't want to agree with Warren, but I'm afraid he's probably right. I do believe that Markowitz has it in his power to provide needed seed money to get this project off the ground. His term, I believe is up in 2010 and I think he will want to leave some kind of legacy to the borough. Since he had his first date with his wife at The Kings, I think this project would be his sentimental favorite. Let's hope so. The King's is truly one of this country's architectural treasures and needs to be restored to its original glory.

No arguement here Luis. What we need here, and around the country is for not one more palace to ever be demolished again.

Here is what the article in Friday's issue of The Real Deal (New York's Real Estate Industry Bible) says about The Kings. I'm almost afraid to get my hopes up, BUT THEY ARE!

Loew's Kings Theater in Flatbush could finally be redeveloped

By Saray Ryley

Loew's Kings Theater, for decades an unsightly behemoth on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn's Flatbush neighborhood, could finally be redeveloped soon, nearly two years after the city first tried to find a developer.

The city this week issued a request for proposals to refurbish the ornate 1929 movie house -- where Borough President Marty Markowitz got his first kiss and Barbra Streisand worked the doors -- into a headliner venue, following a preliminary search for developers. The restoration won't be cheap: the estimated cost is $70 million.

The city issued a request for expressions of interest back in September 2006, and had said little about the theater since, leading some to believe it had been forgotten.

"We went back and did a condition study to give us a better handle on what it's going to take to renovate," said Janel Patterson, a city Economic Development Corporation spokeswoman, adding that a marketing consultant was hired to determine the most lucrative use of such a costly conversion. "That's what took us two years."

Already one of the city's largest entertainment venues with 2,295 water-worn seats, the winning developer would gain adjacent city property on East 22nd Street to expand Loew's front stage and back stage to accommodate live performances, and several city-owned parcels now leased to a private parking lot operator, which the developer could use to create decked parking. The existing structure is 63,000 square feet, including 5,000 square feet of retail space, but valuable air rights could yield a much larger complex.

The property is not landmarked, but the city's RFP requires the theater to be renovated.

The winning developer would be expected to restore most of Loew's surviving features, from its ornate curved ceilings to the whimsical mural of marching knights adorning the men's room, all in classic movie house styling. Those features have suffered significant wear since the venue was shuttered in 1979.

The city suggests renovations could be funded with historic rehabilitation tax credits and the sale of naming rights could help fund the $70 million restoration.

Two serious attempts to redevelop the theater have failed since the city acquired it in the early 1980s.

Basically the same things were said in the Post article. FINALLY, after 30 years could it be???...

I know that i'm an eternal optimist, but for some reason I feel that something really is going to happen this time. Though I've criticized Markowitz in the past for not doing enough, I do honestly believe that he wants this to happen and that he has an emotional attachment to the place. Maybe he's waited this long so that the renovation is well under way by the time he leaves office and he can point to it as a big achievement. Rumour has it he wants to run for mayor. Due to term limits he can no longer be Borough President.

Here we go again! The city is asking for RFP's for The Kings. As part of the process, they are having a tour of the historic property on Monday, April 7th at 2:00 PM. I went on the tour in October of '06 and it was an incredible experience. I will be attending once again. Info is included in press release below:

March 17, 2008 – New York City Economic Development Corporation (NYCEDC), in cooperation with the Brooklyn Borough President, is seeking a developer and operator for the former Loew's Kings Theatre (the “Theatre”). Responses to this Request for Proposals (RFP) must present plans to lease, rehabilitate and operate the Theatre.

The Theatre opened in 1929 as Loew's Flagship Theatre. Designed in the French Renaissance style, the Theatre’s architecture is heavily influenced by the Palace of Versailles and Paris Opera house. The Theatre’s style is enhanced by high curved ceilings, wood paneling and ornate plaster walls. The seating capacity is 3,195 (2,295 in the orchestra and 900 in the mezzanine). The Theatre is approximately 68,300 gross square feet on approximately 55,000 square feet of land.

Located at 1025-1035 Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn, the Theatre is in the geographic center of the City’s most populous borough, and in the heart of the thriving Flatbush Avenue shopping area. Retail offerings include clothing, appliances, furniture, food, and other goods serving the adjacent residential neighborhoods.

An information meeting and tour will be held at the Theatre on Monday, April 7, 2008 at 2:00 p.m. Those who wish to attend the informational meeting must RSVP with Liliana Ruiz at (212) 312-3840 or lruiz@nycedc.com on or before Friday, April 4, 2008. The site tour will be conducted immediately following the informational meeting. Interested parties are strongly encouraged to attend.

Companies that have been certified with the New York City Department of Small Business Services as Minority-and Women-Owned Business Enterprises (M/WBE) are strongly encouraged to apply. To find out more about M/WBE certification and NYCEDC’s M/WBE Program, please go to www.nycedc.com/mwbeprogram

RFP responses are due no later than 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday, May 7, 2008. Submission guidelines and requirements are outlined in the RFP, which can be downloaded at www.nycedc.com/rfp

Maybe someone can educate me. Why is an RFP expected to be effective? Isn't the fact that there hasn't been any interest by the private sector to buy and restore the theatre the problem in the first place? Why keep doing what doesn't work? I guess this is what the NYCEDC does for a living, but I just don't see it leading anywhere. Hopefully, I'm dead wrong.

Hi Scott, the city owns the property and this is the process for disposing of it. That said, I do think something will happen this time. Since the last RFP back in October of 2006, Brooklyn's reputation as a vibrant city of the future has been cemented. Downtown is booming and (though there are housing issues to contend with) I think everyone feels that the future of Brooklyn as a whole is very bright. That bodes well for the redevelopment of the Kings and for the undeveloped parking lots that are potentially quite valuable for residential or retail. In addition, I think the city will chip in money to move this along as well. Markowitz totally has the power to use discretionary earmark money for borough projects. This is his last term and he'll want to leave a legacy. What better legacy than the restoration of the most beautiful theater in Brooklyn!

LuisV, I don't disagree with anything you said. Sounds like the City will hand the Kings over to any party that demonstrates the financial capability to restore it and also has a reasonable operating plan once it is restored. That is, the City will be focusing more on the bidder's plan of operation, rather than the price being offered by the bidder. Is that what you're saying?

Requiring a response to the RFP by 05/07/2008 makes no sense. How does the NYCEDC expect to get responses to what will be an expensive and complex rehab project in such a relatively short time? The cynic in me says that the city sees that the Loew's is beyond repair and is going through the motions one last time before giving up.

Press release- http://nyc.gov/html/film/html/news/030108_brooklyn_theatre_rfp.shtml

RFP info- http://www.nycedc.com/Web/AVAILABLEPROJECTS/RFPsRFQsRFEIs/Developer+Operator++Loews+Kings+Theatre.htm

The optimist in me has hope!

I may not have been on this site for a while, but I feel that Markowitz is right. This old queen of a theater should be reopen

I forgot to tell the site to notify me, so I'm writing again

In this weeks issue of Crain's New York Business, The NYEDC has taken a quarter page ad with a beautiful picture of the King's auditorium viewed from the stage. In it, is announces the RFP and the requirement that the theater must be renovated and have the ability to show films again!

If showing films is a requirement, they'll never find a buyer, unless possibly if the interior can be gutted and turned into a multiplex. No one in their right mind would risk spending mega-millions to open a single screen cinema with more than 3,000 seats.

Well, I didn't see the ad. But my guess is that they are saying that films must be a part of the picture. So if someone wanted to turn the booth into luxury suites, as in the case of the Bronx Paradise, it would be against the rules.

Here is the exact quote from the ad which appears on page 33 of the March 30th issue of Crains NY Business:

"Responses to this request for proposals (RFP) must present plans to lease, rehabilitate and operate the theater".

This can mean several things. I interpret it to mean that the theater must be restored and must be able to "operate" as a theater. It doesn't mean that its primary function can't be something else. In addition, I believe that the parking lots behind the theater are part of the lease and this can be very valuable to a developer.

The tour of the Kings for potential developers is scheduled for Monday afternoon (April 7th) at 2:00 PM. I have RSVP'ed and will find out as much as I can and report back to this page.

GO FER IT!!!!!

All joking aside, I would like to say that a grand dame like the Kings should be open for all those to see. It was a vaudeville house so it should be suited for something other than a movie theater.

is there anybody out there!!!
This was my first time in months on this page and there is not a reply to anything. I want this theater open.

Please Luis, find out for us. I would have went, but I'm working in the projection room out here in Jersey all day Monday.

Sure thing, hopefully I will be able to post my observations by Tuesday! Sorry I won't be able to meet you! I went on this tour about 18 months ago and it was an incredible experience. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can noticably see any difference since October of 2006.

I have just come back from the theater tour held today, April 7th, at The Loew's Kings.

I was present in October 2006 when the city's NYEDC held a similar tour for an "RFEI" (Request for an Expression of Interest). The result of that process was that enough interest was expressed to move to the next step; an RFP - Request For Proposals and to make certain requirements as part of that request.

The city insists that the theater's architectural elements be restored and that the theater be able to be operated as such. Not necessarily for movies, but for performing arts. The city also insists that all proposals be financially viable to enable the restored theater to operate WITHOUT any public subsidy.

The city has estimated that it will cost approximately $70MM to restore the Kings to its former opulence. Here is the important part: The city made it clear that they WOULD make grants to cover some or most of the resoration costs as long as the developer "made that as part of their proposal" (who wouldn't) and as long as the developer had a plan to run the theater going forward without any further operating subsidies from the city.

Marty Markowitz introduced the tour and I do believe that he is totally sincere in his efforts to get The Kings project done. The turnout, in my opinion, was slightly higher than the turnout in 2006 for the RFEI and I was encouraged by the number of "Suits" in the audience. Some of the people were obviously interested in the theater. I was hoping that I was one of the few people who just wanted to see the theater again.

Regarding the actual condition of the theater: I posted my earlier tour in a post from October of '06 which I am repeating here:

We proceeded into the main auditoium and I was in awe of the vastness of the space! It was painful to see the tremendous water damage on parts of the walls. The seats are all there though and, to me, looked quite comfortable. The seats appeared larger than what we have today and the rows had amazing amounts of legroom; much more than you see in today's theaters.

The walk up the grand staircase is majestic. Though the balcony is relatively small, it is spectacularly beautiful. What I found funny is how far away the screen is from the furthest seats in the orchestra and balcony sections. I could never see a movie from these seats! I would need opera glasses.

We also went into one of the basement levels under the grand foyer. It was big enough to have a makeshift basketball court set up. Apparently, the ushers played there between shifts. There is also a basement space beneath the theater itself though we didn't get to see it.

The theater, while heavily damaged, is totally recoverable.

We learned that the exterior vertical Loew's sign that once adorned the theater above the marquee is alive and well and being stored by the city. The city is asking, though not requiring, that the sign be reinstalled with any restoration of the theater. I am in agreement with above posters that the original marquee may be underneath the square one currently in place. You are able to see the curves when you stand underneath the marquee.

Very few of the curtain fabrics in the theater remain though some do.

I also was surprised by how small the candy counter was! It was tiny! I was also surprised at how small the bathrooms were especially for a theater of this size.

Additional information that I found out: There is a street directly behind the theater that will be demapped and included as part of the site. This will allow a developer to expand the backstage area and make the theater available for touring Broadway Shows/Concerts and other events.

It was pointed out that The Kings is the city's 3rd largest theater, after Radio City and The WaMu theater at MSG. The Borough of Brooklyn has 2.6MM people and has only two performance spaces of note. The Brooklyn Academy of Music and the Performing Arts Center at Brooklyn College. There is every reason to believe that a restored Kings could do extremely well as a performing arts center, concert center and Broadway Show touring theater. Plus, the Kings HAS PARKING!

I came away from this event very hopeful for the future of The Kings. The RFP's are due back to the NYEDC by the beginning of May. The city expects to select a plan within 60 days (July).

I'm sure I forgot some details. I'll post additional recellections as they come to mind.

I think we're on our way to finally saing The Loew's Kings after almost 30 years of sitting in silence and decay.

I did some research on CT and found out that The Loew's Kings actually had the least amount of seats of all of the Wonder Theaters. Rather than the City's third largest, the Kings would be the fifth largest performance theater behind Radio City, The MSG WaMU theater, The Paradise, and Loew's 175th Street. Technically, the Valencia doesn't count because it is not availble to the public as a performance venue (which was how Markowitz was counting it) and Loew's Jersey doesn't count because it's in, well, Jersey! Just behind would be the St. George in Staten Island and the Beacon on the Upper West Side.

This photo was taken the day before the theater opened. The photo is from the Ben Hall book "Best Remaining Seats". There was a discussion about the book on this page back in July 2006.
http://tinyurl.com/5v2uq2

Wow Ken, that is a spectacular photo. Thanks!

I hope that tour leads to a possible affirmative answer for restoration. As a theater major and nostalgia buff I hope for two things. One of them is the restoration of this grand lady and the other is for the World's Fair to Return to Flushing Meadow. Getting the parachute jump operating would be another one, though I don't ever remember it when it was operational. I may have been out of the loop for a while, but I never gave up hope that the marquis on Flatbush Avenue near the Flatbush Sears would light again. I may now start praying.

Here is a link to the pictures I took on Monday. Sorry I got a little crazy in the mechanical room in the basement but listening to Bruce's story about how the A/C worked just made me want to document as much as I could. A couple of us went up to the hallway leading to the projection booth but we were called back. I did get a shot of the doorway that leads to the catwalks above the auditorium. Shooting in the auditorium became tough due to all of the dust that was stirred up by people walking around. All I got were reflections of the dust particles. I hope you like them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9467450@N02/sets/72157604432861238/

Our work may be cut out for us folks, and those pictures Tony really make that statement, they're great.

Hello Tony,

Thank you for those pictures. I came across them by accident when I was looking up something on the Valencia.

I am amazed that the Kings does look like it is in very restorable condition and I believe this is the only Loews Wonder Theatre that is not in operation. I know that two are being used as churches and two are being used as rightful theatres.

I didn't think too much of the Kings, but now that I have seen the inside I am very much hoping this building gets restored too. I saw what they have done with the Loews Paradise and it words alone cannot explain the sheer beauty of that theatre.

I am hoping that someone can put good use to their theatre. Then at least all 5 of the Wonder Theatres would be in operation. I actually was lead to believe the Kings was in worse condition than this, but it isn't. I hope it will be saved.

Geo

Hmmmm,

I just looked at the aerial shot of the theatre. There is quite a bit of parking around it with two large fields. Probably private lots, but if something could be worked out...

But still 3192 seats is a tough order to fill, it is a pretty big place.

Even when it operated as a cinema, the Kings was "a tough order to fill." I don't think that it was ever very profitable, if at all. Stage shows didn't last a year due to disappointing attendance.

I don't know the demographics surrounding this particular area. But I am very well aware that a theatre is a business and certain elements must be in place for it to succeed as such. First thing I look at is the parking and mass transit. People have to get to the place and if parking or transit is a problem...then it would make saving an old theatre a very hard proposition. Second issue is the building's use. Strangely enough, most die hard preservationists overlook this very important detail. It is obvious that something this size wouldn't work as a movie house any longer. But it could as a live venue. Key things to look for are other competing theatres in the area. Sometimes searching for an alternative use that perserves much of the building's past could be looked into. As it is, two of the other Wonder Theatres have new life as a church. A different performance venue, such as a dance hall or dinner theatre could be explored. Brooklyn's proximity to Manhattan and the transit system should support the numbers. But again, without knowing the demographics of the area, it is hard to tell. Many good heads are needed to come together on something like this. It would be a terrible loss if this building just continues to sit and deteriorate.

Geo

Jezz this really was an awesome theater:

http://tinyurl.com/5v2uq2

http://www.planetplg.com/images/loews-stage.jpg

And today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marioletto/278380160/

I does irk me very much that even in a metropolis such as NYC that a use for this magnificent structure (that preserves its integrity) can't be found. It is a constant battle I go through in my mind every time I see a beautiful theatre like this. One side is the preservationist, but on the other side is that all important business aspect.

It is hard to believe that through time it is the very size and grandeur of these old picture palaces is what is working against it today.

I don't know if someone is working on something in regards to this theater. I certainly would hope so.

Geo

I will repeat I think the Loew's Kings is the most magnificient theatre still standing in NYC even in its state of ruin. The actual size of the theatre is huge which is not reflected in its seating capacity due to the shallow balcony.If this theatre had been secured properly it would be in much better shape and not cost as much to restore and the city bares some of the responsiblilty. Along with the Uptown in Chicago the Kings is a must restore theatre and time is ticking. The restored Kings would be a point of pride for Brooklyn. If the City of Oakland which has 400,000 people can restore two 3000 plus theatres the Paramount and the Fox I think Brooklyn with a few million people could find the money to restore the Kings which has a giant parking lot behind it. I still say the City should put some seed money into the restoration and restore a section of the theatre to show people what it would look like to improve its curb appeal to interested parties.brucec

As to the demographics of the area right around the Loew's Kings. It's in a predominantly working to lower middle-class Caribbean neighborhood. The neighborhood is full of 99 cents stores, nails places, chinese and carribean restaurants and hair salons. There is a thriving commercial area right around the theater - mostly lower-end stuff - but a large Staples, Stop & Shop and Old Navy Outlet have been operating seemingly successfully right next to the theater for many years now. There is a lot of parking right around the theater. Buses run up and down Flatbush and I think the closest train stop - the Q on Beverley Road - is the about 6 blocks west. This links the theater to Manhattan, Park Slope/Prospect Heights in Brooklyn and the neighborhoods to the south like Midwood and Coney Island. The neighborhoods of Ditmas Park and Beverly Square West just to the west of the theater are wealthier, ethnically mixed neighborhoods of victorian era houses. To the north, Prospect Lefferts Gardens is slowly gentrifying. In short, there are a lot of people around the theater and with easy access to it. Given the size of the carribean population in the area, it would probably make sense for the theater to present - among other things - carribean artists.

Hello

Bruce C. It is funny that you mention the Uptown in Chicago as it is made by the same designers. I wouldn't go as far as saying the Kings is the MOST magnificent theatre in NYC. That would be open for debate. It certainly isn't as nice as the Loews Paradise. BUT it nevertheless is a gorgeous theatre and it is worthy of restoration. I actually thought the theatre was in worse shape, but looking at exterior and interior pictures of the building, it looks to have faired pretty well given the number of years it was not in operation. Granted it will cost booku bucks to restore, but if a good application could be created for the theatre and you do have a good customer base you are marketing the theatre too, then something can be done. This is a rare case in which you DO have parking around the theatre and access to public transportation. This is a problem the Uptown faces in Chicago.

Another situation is that if the surrounding area dictates lower/middle working class (as C-Dan pointed out above), would the people in the area be able to afford the entertainment? Or on the opposite side of the coin, would the income be enough to support the renovations and restoration of the theatre. If you market outside of the neighborhood (which you will have to do with a building this size), then you have to take the quality of the neighborhood into consideration as well. In simple terms would your people feel safe in the surrounding neighborhood?

It does sound like from the information C-Dan presented that Kings seems to face a similar situation as the Loews Paradise did. It is in a predominantly hispanic area and the theatre did overcome quite a few obstacles.

Given the amount of people in the area, there is parking, and mass transit access there is a very good possibility something could be done here. Following the Caribbean programming is a good idea to cater to the local populace. But there is much to take into consideration in regards to local demographics and what they have to spend in terms of residual income. As it is times are hard now and more and more people are having less and less to spend.

Community programs could be a good way to generate some good local programming that people can afford. If the neighborhood is good, then you could every so often market larger events.

Mostly you have to look into what kind of money you can bring in the front door v.s. the renovation and continued operating costs of the theatre. If your projected figures having you running in the black and you recoup your renovation costs in a few years...then it would be a go.

Much business planning goes into an operation like this. It isn't easy. But in a nutshell, you need to find something to put in the theatre that is going to generate a good profit and yet be classified to something the people can afford. That something has to generate a profit to cover renovation and operating costs. Finally, you need to get people to the theatre and if people are predominately coming by cars you need a place for them to park.

Given the nature of the area this theatre is in and the size of the building. You would need quite a few heads in on a project like this. This is something that goes well beyond the simple desire to restore a beautiful building.

All the beauty and meticulous detailing any restoration project would have on this majestic structure will not mean a thing if you can't put people in those 3192 seats. It does take much time, money and careful planning if the theatre is to have a successful future.

Geo

I'd expect that most patrons would arrive by car or by bus. Local public transportation is the heavily used B41 Flatbush Avenue bus and the little used B23 Cortelyou Road bus. The walk from either the Brighton line subway at East 16th Street is a bit long and not through the best areas. The walk from the Nostrand Avenue subway is a bit longer also through some rough area. For these reasons it's unrealistic to think that many Manhattanites will venture to the Kings. If the city is serious and the Kings is brought back from the near-dead it will have to somehow be targeted at a lower middle class Brooklyn demographic, a difficult market. We'll have to see what happens after 05/07/2008 to determine what the city's intenetions truly are.

Well, this Manhattanite promises to make the trek to Flatbush once the Kings is up and running. I've already convinced friends to break out their passports for Jersey City. They were happy they did. I believe getting at least some of them to Brooklyn will be easy. I'm looking forward to it.

In a few years, when the Nets basketball team moves in, Brooklyn will be jumpin. You all see those photos from a few weeks ago. Its sad, the amount of water damage to this place. I'm from central Jersey, and even I agree, FIX the damn thing. It cant be lost. If it is run right, you'll get the butts in the seats. This place has potential that hasn't even been thought of yet. It has to be saved.

I wish some photos of the projection room could have been taken. As a projectionist of almost 33 years, I'm curious if the projectors are still there. My dad told me years ago that in this theatre, there were 3 projectors, instead of the usual 2. I don't know if anyone could confirm this. And probably, if everything is still there, the old carbon arc lamps are there as well.

While it's a shame it did get damaged...really, for being empty as long as it has, it really has faired well. Many theaters empty as long, and even shoter are/were in far more shambles than the Kings.

Hello,

DFC: Distance from the train station does pose a problem and obviously if the area isn't that great (or safe), then that is double jeopardy. Even in a good area on a sunny day, many people do not want to walk far to a theatre. Now if the area has a regular bus or shuttle that would go from subways and trains in the vicinity of the theatre, then that would be a good thing. But I do agree that you do want to have good local programming to take advantage of the local populace and it does make things more difficult when working with a lower income group because they simply have less money to spend. As I said above, due to changing times and the expense required to restore the building, it could be well priced out of it's market.

Much does depend on the surrounding population and how they take pride in their town (if they do) and how they view the theatre's future. Even if the neighborhood is a lower/middle class, if they are a strong force, then just about anything is possible.

However, there are variables that are working against the Kings otherwise it would have been restored already like it's sister theatre in the Bronx.

MOVIE534:

Your proposition of "fix it" is much easier said than done. I too want to see the building restored, but I see that you are thinking movies already by your interest in the projection booth. I can assure you that a single screen movie theatre that seats over 3000 people will never survive in todays economy. In my area alone there isn't a single theatre with less than 10 screens. The Loews Paradise was divided into FOUR screens and it didn't make it. Even if reconfigured for I-Max (which I doubt is possible), it is just too large. So movies are out of the question for this grand lady. You need something with much larger profit margins to work with. Obviously live entertainment would be a first choice.

BWAY:

You are correct. Given the number of years the building stood, I thought it was in much worse condition myself. In fact prior to a couple of years ago, I thought the building was long gone. So I was amazed to learn that all five of the Loews Wonder Theatres are still standing AND on top of everything, the Kings wasn't divided down the middle like most theatres of this size were.

I would say that if the building was configured for multi-use, it could stand a greater chance of survival after restoration. One thing I have seen done in a classic theatre was that the entire ornamentation was restored to original and only the balcony seats were replaced. The entire orchestra section of seats were ripped out
and hardwood flooring put in. Tables and chairs were put in much like a cabaret. The stage was greatly extended into the area and the space was used for dancing competitions. Then I have seen for a different show a regular seating pattern.

Granted, it worked well for the theatre I mentioned because the floor had a very shallow slope. To me it was very unusual, but I mention it here because it shows some ingenuity in the restoration vision to allow the space to be reconfigured. A higher flexibility means a wider variety of uses. More uses means more money.

So I know that many gun-ho restorers want to see every nut and bolt restored in a building like this. Believe me, I like to see that too, but that is thinking blindly and it just can't happen...especially in today's economy. Keep in mind, beauty aside, do you know what it would cost to heat/cool a building that size?

It is a tough call and it is something I always run through in my mind as I said above. On one hand you want to see the place restored to its original splendor, but it wouldn't be successful that way today. So the business side takes over and many times you sit there and wonder what the building could be used for to generate enough money to cover it's restoration costs and operating costs.

Apparently a solution hasn't presented itself or else the theatre would have been restored already.

But as for the pro-restoration people out there...I do very much agree. I love to see this building saved.

Geo

Good day Geo1

I did question the projection booth, not so much for the day-to-day running of films, but as you suggested, and I have seen done, to promote multi-funtion use of the space. Being a projectionist and stagehand in a number of venues here in N.J., I can tell you that if the area is thriveing, and there is nearby parking, which there is, than there is no reason why stage shows, such as "Dora" or "Diego" or a symphany, or a weekend film festival, (see Loews Jersey) could not get fannies in the seats. Its all about how its run. And yes, while I agree the economy stinks right now, if a non-profit was formed, than grants and corporations could then be had for $$$$ and the Kings could be on its way back to glory. The most important thing is that it is not lost to the wrecking ball, as so many others have.

The first paragraph of the introduction needs to be corrected. The Metropolitan Theatre in downtown Brooklyn was the Loew's "flagship" for that borough, not the Kings. And the Loew's circuit did not "dominate" Brooklyn. RKO, Century, and Randforce were equally important.

Hello

Movie534,

Multi-purpose is the way to go. I am NOT saying get rid of projection capability as that is still another use, but yeah, for something this size you are going to be looking at more live oriented programming. Going along the lines of good inexpensive entertainment would do it.

I am a bit indifferent on non-profits. Some work out fine, but many do not. Many 'just hang in there'. Renovation would be a slow process as grants and such take time to go through. Non-profit is a constant on-going 'beg for the buck'. Decisions take much longer because everything needs to be done in a committee. Again, it does depend on marketing and support. But I can say that going for profit with a huge benefactor funding the project would probably be the best and probably the fastest way to go. However, once again, it is the size of the building that is working against it.

A smaller building is easier to restore, maintain and has lower operating costs, so for a small local community theatre, non-profit shows it's strong points.

The formation of a dual operation could also be possible in that the owners of the theatre is a separate company than the company operating it.

There are many different ways to go about it. But the biggest issue is still what are you going to put in the the theatre that is going to bring in enough income to cover the costs of renovation and thereafter the continued operation of the theatre? Also, will the required revenue be obtainable based on the fact of the income of the local populace?

It isn't easy. I wanted to buy a theatre...I still do. There is WAY more involved than you think. Also on paper you are probably going to need much more starting capital than you think. It is this realization where most 'start up' restoration projects fail.

This isn't a small town theatre here. This theatre is larger than most theatres on Broadway. Two to three times larger in fact. This is a tall order to fill.

You really really really need a good solid plan and you really really need good financial backers.

Probably if I were to set up a group to undertake a project like this, the first thing you need to do is gather information...lots of information. A purpose has to be created for the building, and that starts with market studies. Once you have a purpose then you have to address how people are going to get to your theatre. Finally you have to determine the condition of the building and what it will cost to renovate it.

Finally a business plan has to be put together with all of that information in addition to the costs of operation vs revenue. Only THEN could you go to prospective lenders or benefactors.

The bad economy isn't helping things either because lenders are not so easy to part with their cash especially for a special function building.

Still if you can prove that a large entertainment venue will help the local economy in terms of job offerings and potential outside visitors, the town may give you MUCH information you need to put together a plan. Furthermore I have seen ENTIRE downtown areas become revitalized because of a good theatre project.

A big plus you do have in your favor is that this is a historic structure and unlike any other historic theatre, this one is part of a group of 5 unique structures that represented a dominant player in theatre history. While that in itself is not majoy, what IS a major deal is that all 5 Loews Wonder Theatres are standing, but only this one is not in operation. That is saying quite a bit for a cause to save the building.

But you have to think outside of the box in terms of planning a use for the building and in some cases some changes or sacrifices must be made.

Case in point:

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/548

http://www.hardrock.com/locations/cafes3/cafe.aspx?LocationID=99&MIBenumID=3

Granted, this is an extreme scenario...but see what I am getting at?

Movie534 - On the tour last month, a couple of us did sneak up a stairway that leads to the projection booth. We found 2 rooms. The first was a storage room with a second door that leads to the attic catwalks. The other, which the gentleman in front of me saw was the projection booth. There was only the light from his flashlight and he said the room looked empty. I hope that answers your question.

ALSO:

Just got a e-mail from the EDC. There will be another tour on May 12th. The deadline for RFP's has also been extended. Good News?

To Geo1...the solid plan and good financial backing says it all. I agree 150%. (as a side note, I too wanted to buy a theatre years ago, and also had one drawn up, but...)
and to TonyM, Thanks, I guess when Loews abandoned it 30 years ago, they took the projectors so they could use them at other locations. Its a shame.
And finally, that the deadline has been extended cant be bad news, so lets all hope.

Hello

Movie534:

Sounds like you left off on an empty thought about your plans to buy a theatre. You ended with a "but". So what happened? Business plan told you something you didn't like?

That is usually the case. It is also a reason why many people hate business plans because they sure can kill a dream real fast. But on the upside a business plan is just that, a plan. Without one would be a disaster in the making.

Anyway, the pictures I posted of the Paramount in NY is an extreme case of reuse and in that instance, most of the original theatre was demolished. But it does seem to be a nice use for what was left of the Paramount.

In this case you have a whole building and outside of disrepair, it still is intact. Having already established that the building is too large, it can be restructured in a manner to allow more use of the space but at the same time doing it in a tasteful manner that most of the building's historic integrity remains intact.

With some of the space restructured, you could have space for other use within the theatre. You could have an area that is a dance studio and another area that you can expand on the concession area, or even have a small cafe. As you probably know from movie theatres, most of the money is to be made in concessions and people LOVE to eat. The lobby is huge...massive...big! Make use of that space. Put in a small store that sells related materials to your programs or events you plan in the theatre. Probably another area could be sectioned off to create a small art gallery.

So there you have it, that is four additional uses within the same area. That is five different things going on at the same time. That is making good use of the space.

So sacrificing some originality to preserve the rest of the building and its existence goes a very long way.

In the example I mentioned above, you now not only have a theatre, but an arts center.

This is just one idea I have running around in my head.

BTW, have you ever heard of the Latchis Theatre in Brattleboro Vermont?

If so, then you probably have a good idea of what I am talking about.

Geo

Hello Geo1, I don't know if you're aware of it, but it wasn't most of the Paramount which was demolished, it was the entire theatre, including the facade. What's there now is a replica of the original facade and marquee, and not a very good one either. Please tell me your not recommending that a good reuse of the Kings is to demolish the entire structure and then rebuild a budget version of the facade with a restaurant behind it, because that's exactly what the "reuse" of the times square Paramount is.

Hello Ziggy,

I wasn't aware the entire structure was torn down. I was told that the back part...the theatre auditorium was torn down, but the front part which was the original lobby and facade were original.

Actually before I became more business involved with theatres, I was one of those die hard people who believed in keeping these magnificent structures pretty much all original. But I do realize now after doing much homework for the project I was working on that you do have to make some changes in order to make better use of the space to generate more income. There is a way to tastefully do that and keep much of the building as original as possible.

Now a dinner/theatre restaurant is a good idea. As I said, I have even seen a theatre that had standard seating in the balcony and then the orchestra seating was replaced with more like a Cabaret seating. This area could indeed be reconfigured as well. The point is that it makes the space more flexible. In this manner, you could even cater out parties...another great source of income.

It boils down to balancing the project out with what you can do to make money with the building and how much can be preserved and kept intact (which you want to be as much as possible).

Geo

Hi Geo,

Yes I did drift off. The biggest problem I had was...money, which as you and many others stated is going to be the problem with the Kings. But, what we have in our corner now is interest, both private and political, at least local politicals. And thats all we need right now to at least dream.

One more thing Geo, all your ideas are great ones, some maybe better than others, but I give you all the credit in the world for being innovative, and thinking both inside and outside the box. I just wanted to let you know that.

Hello Movie534

Yeah, this is going to be a big one. While some of my ideas may be good and could be a solution. The truth is it is going to take someone not only with a vision, but also with a very deep pocket.

The thing that a business plan reveals is that there are so many things that you don't think about in terms of expenses. Just thinking off the top of ones head is impossible. Once you get all those figures down on paper you realize how expensive things are going to be.

My perspective building was an art deco theatre in Ohio. The building was selling for around $365k and at that time I knew I could easily sell my home and profit from that sale and then purchase the theatre. The trouble is that after fixing up the place, and prepping it for my needs, the project quickly bloomed to $500k and it would have been another $75k needed just to operate comfortably until break even. Needless to say, I was going to end up borrowing more than I could front.

The market was better then and the theatre didn't need much work (as it was in current operation). But the problem was that my house didn't sell for my asking price. So I was forced to abandon the project.

Could you imagine trying that now in today's economy? Lenders are really tight now with their money.

Here in NY things are much worse than Ohio. Property values have fallen a bit, but you still have the problem of very high taxes. Think about what the property tax is on the Kings. More than through the roof.

Unlike the theatre I was looking into which didn't need much work, the Kings is over three times the size AND it needs a full restoration. This will run into the millions just factoring the size of the building alone.

What the Kings really needs is a good benefactor and someone that would buy into a very good plan. It comes down to three things...if you have the plan, you have the money and you have the market, then you are good to go. That is no different if you are talking about a small 100 person theatre or one that holds 5000 people. It's just that everything you need just gets bigger as the building gets bigger.

Geo

To Geo1...the solid plan and good financial backing says it all. I agree 150%. (as a side note, I too wanted to buy a theatre years ago, and also had one drawn up, but...)
and to TonyM, Thanks, I guess when Loews abandoned it 30 years ago, they took the projectors so they could use them at other locations. Its a shame.
And finally, that the deadline has been extended cant be bad news, so lets all hope.
posted by movie534 on May 1, 2008 at 8:39am

If you look many posts ago I linked some movie clocks that show the Kings was re-opened twice since Loew's closed it and independantly run.

Hello Geo1

Thanks for all your intelligent comments so far. The times square Paramount wasn't so much demolished as it was gutted and filled in with office space. The structure which held the grand lobby and auditorium is still there, but the lobby and auditorium themselves are gone. The vestibule, ticket lobby and other such spaces were in the actual office building itself and were also gutted and turned into offices. The facade was dismantled, removed, and covered over with windows to match the rest of the building. As I already said, the facade in place now is a replica, and not a very good one. When I went to see it it gave me the creepy feeling of seeing the reanimated corpse of an old friend (brrrrr!!). It just doesn't look right.

It is important to think outside the box but, in my opinion, anything less than returning the Kings to a theatrical purpose would be admitting defeat. Sort of a "better than nothing" solution. Loew's Jersey was actually on the chopping block when community activists began fighting for it. The Hartz corporation was going to demolish it for office space. After preservationists spoke up Hartz said they would be willing to incorporate the lobby into the planned structure. The community decided that wasn't good enough and convinced the city to buy the building back for a total restoration.

So, here's hoping that the Kings also is reopened as a theater again.

Hello Ziggy,

The point that I was making is that as a theatre alone it probably will not be successful as a business. If you are one of those nut for nut bolt for bolt restoration enthusiasts, I can tell you right now, the theatre would fail. There is a reason why you don't see 3200 seat theatres any more. Even for live shows that is a tough order to fill.

There is a way to restructure the space, still keep much of the building intact AND still use the bulk of it as a theatre. However, other profitable entities must be incorporated into the renovation if it is to survive.

Don't forget with rising gas prices you more then ever have to consider the local populace and as was pointed out earlier that populace is lower to middle class. So we are talking about people with not much residual income. So the only way to take up the slack on an expensive renovation the Kings requires is to restructure the space.

By restructuring, I don't mean tearing out everything that made the building special and create offices. God knows we have enough confounded office space already. But a full entertainment facility...an arts center. Now that is what I would be shooting for. So you can have your theatre in the main part of the building, but also have other space that could be utilized for other arts interests. The more you have going on, the more people you have coming in your front door. When dealing with people with lower residual income, we are talking a case of QUANTITY. What you can't make in terms of price you have to make in another form.

To put it in a simpler form. Say for example the costs of renovation and operation dictates a charge of $40 per head. Now if your market research tells you that your paying public will want to see a show that is $20. What are you going to do? Yeah, you have to take up the slack elsewhere or else you will not have a business to run and I am telling you now that a bolt for bolt restoration on a 3200 seat theatre is going to be a very tough order to fill.

Ok, so where do you take up the slack? Well for one, you can get rid of the less profitable seating, cut your expenses and use that space for something else. So this way you have a theatre that has all good seats and you can re-utilize the newly aquired space for something else.

Think about that for a while. If you wanted to keep as much of the theatre original as possible, but need to make extra space to create a multi-functional facility, where would you do it?

The trouble is that many people put their hearts out on the line and want to see a beautiful building like this be restored bolt for bolt, and even be used for movies. But many of these same people don't understand the business side of things. I too was once a bolt for bolt restoration type person...but when I wanted to buy my own theatre, I realized quickly that there is a business side to things that must be addressed and planned for properly and that is where the fine line is drawn and I continually ask myself, how much of the building can I restore to original v.s. the need to run a business out of that space.

Yes, I do want to see the Kings run as a theatre again, but I can tell you that it cannot have anywhere near it's original capacity. Dealing with local demographics I can pretty much say right off the bat the only way the Kings will survive is if it is a multi-functional facility, but yes, being first and foremost, a theatre (mostly for live performances).

Geo

Geo - While I perfectly understand your point and I am not an architect, I can't see how you could change the configuration of the auditorium without ruining it. Where you could make major changes is in the basement area. I don't know if you saw my pictures of the last tour but the basement area is huge. You could easily turn that into rentable space for many types of businesses. It is amazing that during all of those years something wasn't done with the space. If you could make a go of those area's, then that income could be used to defray the operating expense of the theater space. The theater lobby could be used for weddings or those types of functions. Lets not forget the movie industry. They are always on the lookout for real movie theaters for period pieces. As a location for television productions such as live to tape programming, the Kings would be perfect. For concerts you have to look no further than the Loew's 175th Street or the United Palace, as it is known today. There are many concerts held there which fill the house at decent ticket prices. A few people I work with have been there recently and said how well the concerts were put together and there were no empty seats. This may all sound like pie in the sky but they are all within reach. Renovate the basement area's first and get that going to start generating income. That is much easier and cheaper than waiting for the auditorium to be finished before seeing any return on investment.

The Kings has a very large orchestra, divided lengthwise about half way to the stage by a lateral aisle about 12 foot wide and brass railing.

All seating forward of this asile could be yanked and the floor leveled to the elevation at the foot of the stage area. A decorative brass plated grillwork could control movement with gates at the dividing point. This would still leave about 2300 seats with excellent sight lines to stage and screen.

The new area could be fitted with dance floor and tables and operated as a high tone catering hall for weddings, dinners, etc. The kitchens, service areas, and small dining rooms and lounges with modern rest rooms of adequete capacity and legal compliance could be placed there.

The rest of theater would be restored as built. It would serve as a magnet to lure business for the catering and also provide venue for live and film events when catering for civic and social events was not booked. The problem of drawing in people to this site is a matter of promotion and transportation.

Forget public transport. Limos and fancy bus delivery from secure parking areas within 30 minutes drive time is the way to go. A new trolley line from the old Sears parking areas would provide a means of short range transport from limited local parking resources, but cost would put this in phase 2 if operations are a success. A reproduction old time trolley based on 1920's designs can be had for about $750,000.00 dollars. Track and overhead wire would run about $1,2000,000.

Regarding my above post, I should have made clear that the kitchens, sculleries, rest rooms, small dinning rooms and lounges would be in the basement areas, not in the theater.

Hello

Tony M. Yes, the basement is one huge area that could be sectioned off for other functions. It could even be expanded for use as updated dressing room areas. In terms of patron usage, guess where you could cut down the number of seats AND still at least retain 85% of the original look of the theatre?

Remember what I said about the Latchis.

I agree with everything you said except for movies. While I would agree not to pull out the projection equipment, the only thing that you could do with movies is just have something as a 'filler' or if you had another event.

For example, years ago when I saw shows at Radio City Music Hall, they had a movie first. Granted the live show wasn't over 2 hours long as a live performance is today, but that could be a good think in a case of having a movie/live package. You could have a live show that is a little over an hour long and then have a movie preceding that.

I think another thing that would help is if some kind of organ is put into the theatre. Usually a theatre like this had an organ to begin with. The organ prelude at Radio City is always a treat. The theatre in Ohio that I wanted to buy also had an organ (not pipe mind you it was electronic).

As you can see really for little extra cost you could create a nice show for people.

It does boil down with who is doing the programming. Having multiple events during a theatrical event will give the people a good sense that they are getting a good bang for the buck. Plus if they are in the theatre longer, they will want to get something larger to eat or drink at the concession stand.

But really, that is the only way I can see how you can incorporate movies. Remember, the movie companies are hogs and they just take way too much of the percentage that bring in at the front door. Movies simply do not make money. Since you don't have quantity working for you in a case like this (meaning a mulitplex), the best you can do is increase the quality or value.

Hello JF Lundy,

Expanding the stage out would also be a way to increase the performance space while reducing the extra seating. This would be a good idea if I were to go with a variable or cabaret seating plan. This way it would give you the option to expand the stage out into the audience space and this is what is well liked for dance shows as it would put more people closer to the stage area.

I can see that you are also following my thinking about having flexibility enough to have the theater double as a catering facility as well.

You do have to face it that theatre seating is expensive and if an alternative approach is taken, you lessen the seating costs (if you only redo the balcony), but if put tables and chairs in the main orchestra area and of course have cooking facilities the number of opportunities presented for use are tremendous. Catering, dinner theatre, dance hall, even presentations and exhibitions. All of these are tremendous money makers that would only require about a 15% to 20% physical restructuring of the building outside of it's original design. Everything that makes the theatre grand would stay intact. The proscenium, the ceiling, the balcony, the grand entryways the beautiful views of the lobby ceiling, and just about all of the decorative fixtures could very well be restored.

There would be one major alteration and if done tastefully, most wouldn't even know it.

Just check out the Latchis Theatre in Brattleboro Vt and everything will become clear.

As for your transportation ideas...they would be good IF the theatre was located in an upper class area. If so then it would be possible to work things around...but remember you are talking about a lower-mid working class area. Putting a traditional trolley line in running down a major road in Brooklyn will most certainly require tons of paperwork and red tape to go through. I personally don't think it will. However, it is very possible to have old time buses that look like trolleys service the area from the train station to the theatre. The town could help foot the bill for this service as it would benefit the theatre and any other business that would open as a direct result of the renovation of the theatre. Personally I think the city would approve of the buses more than an actual trolley line. The buses also wouldn't require alterations to the street either. So in that aspect you get your "trolley" line without all the major to do about having a real trolley installed. Believe me, I would prefer an electric railway, but I don't think that is going to fly anymore in the city of NY. If the theatre was in an upscale area of town then things may be different.

You know the more I think of it, there are many people here that do have great ideas and if only some private investors would be lending an ear here I am sure that some good ideas could come forth that could potentially save this wonderful structure. Sure some compromises must be made, but there are ways to increase the revenue capabilities of this building. Tony M says the building has a huge basement and that definitely can work to the theatre's advantage.

Anyway, I would love to talk more...but I have to run.

Geo

I love the idea of the trolley, but it doesn't match the reality on the ground. Flatbush Avenue from Prospect Park south is frequently a nightmare of high volume car/van/bus traffic and double parking. It's extremely slow going as is - adding a trolley would probably be the final blow.

There is already a faux trolley service in brooklyn (a bus made to look like a trolley) connecting the Park, the library in Grand Army Plaza, the Children's Museum and a couple of other spots most very close to the Kings. Perhaps a stop could be added on nights where events are scheduled:

http://www.heartofbrooklyn.org/visit/getting_around.html

Hello all,

I just skimmed the above comments, so please forgive me if I don't make perfect sense.

geo1, I didn't mean that the theatre couldn't be reused for non theatrical purposes at all, just that the least invasive approach would be the best. As far as a 3200 seat theatre not making a go of it in a bad neighborhood, that's just what the Jersey and the Paradise are doing.

Tearing out seats and putting in tables always seems to be one of the ideas that pops up, but the few theatres I'm aware of where this has been done have all wound up going belly up after the novelty wears off. I don't know about you folks, but the thought of trying to concentrate on a theatrical performance while seated at a table where I've just had a meal is annoying.

One obvious adaptive reuse would be to rent out the lobbies and lounges for receptions, parties, and meetings. I think this would be a profitable venture, especially nowadays with all the "dream wedding" crap that an unending string of bridezillas want to put their loved ones through. What other venue could match the grandeur of a movie palace lobby?

Forget public transportation? In New York City? I would think access to subways and buses would be a selling point.

Anyway, If I've repeated anything or not made sense then I'm sorry. As I said, I've only skimmed the above comments because I don't have much time at the computer today.

Hello CambridgeDan,

Thanks for that tidbit of information. Apparently someone is already thinking in Brooklyn and the bus/trolley already exists.

So there is your answer JF Lundy. Since the transportation in question already exists, creating a stop for the theater is made just that much easier.

Hello Ziggy,

Conditions were different in Jersey and in the Bronx. I don't know if the same rules would apply here.

Anyway, the nice thing about the flexible seating is just that...it is flexible and you are not boxed into a corner. You could very well, set up standard rows. But if you permanently bolt chairs to the floor, you could never reorganize the space to use it for other functions. As for operation, usually the dinner theatres I been too they serve the meal first and perhaps they have some other form of entertainment going on prior to the show. I would run a dinner theatre that way too. I would never have a main entree being served while doing the main performance. That would be distracting. What I would do is perhaps have someone play the organ during dinner...or perhaps the orchestra (or band) could play.

I do hear what you are saying about the lounges and yes, that would also be further space to use. I guess I was trying to drive home that just because the place has 3200 seats doesn't mean it has to use them all for one function. The greater the theatre capacity, the harder the seats are to fill. That is of course unless you have a headliner, and that cost big bucks and you would be excluding your local clientele. They wouldn't be too happy about that.

But it is true that the entertainment could be varied, but you do want to have a good amount of shows the local people can enjoy. They would be opt to support the theatre that way too.

I never said forget about public transportation. In fact it is a must. Given the number of parkings spaces around the theatre, there still wouldn't be enough to rely on automotive transportation alone. That is the one beautiful thing about the NYC mass transit system...it is very comprehensive. There is a lot to choose from. You like the train? No problem. You want to bus? Got it covered. You want a taxi? Ditto. Given that there is parking too, you have the choice of driving and the locals could even walk or bike.

I will say that the Kings is in a much better position for access then some of the other theatres I have seen.

Some theatres...such as that one I saw in PA, are hopeless when it comes to transportation. There is NOTHING around. That isn't going to help a bit for that theatre.

This is a very serious project though and it is way out of my league. I have ideas, but it really is going to take some big bucks to pull a miracle off with the Kings. But I do see it's potential and it did seem to fair much better than I originally thought after seeing those pictures.

I think it would be best to draw some attention to those pictures. You never know, you may find someone that has as much interest in this building as we do here, but yet has the pocketbook that could help fund a project of this size.

Again, it boils down to money, good planning and access. I think the access part looks good and there were quite a few good ideas thrown around here. The only thing really missing is someone or a few someones with deep pockets. And of course a great plan would help too.

Geo

Hello Geo1

I know you didn't make the comment about public transportation, it was J.F. Lundy. I should have referenced the comment. Sorry.

I'm not sure the situations were different in the Bronx and in Jersey City. In both cases (especially the Bronx) people commented more than once that a theatre could never make a go of it in that neighborhood, yet they are. Not much of a go I'll admit, but they are open and functioning.

This is almost unrelated, but, I wasn't saying it would be annoying to watch a show while eating dinner, but that it would be annoying to watch a show from which I had eaten dinner. It's just not comfortable to sit in a dining chair for that long of a time, and then your dealing with the noises of the audience that hasn't finished their food, are playing with the cutlery, or are feeling free to make conversation because of the less formal atmosphere of being seated at a table. I just don't like dinner theatres. I think they're icky. Neither fish nor fowl.

What's the latest? Is that corporation thinking of renovation?

Hello Ziggy,

The situation for the other theatres were different. One of the large pluses regarding the Paradise (which is in a not so good neighborhood) is that they DO up the security in the area when an event is taking place. Thusfar I have not heard of any incidents at the theatre during an event.

I am a bit disconnected from news on the Jersey City Theatre apart from it's background. But the point I am making is that every location is different and any problems in that particular area must be overcome whether it be dealing with a low income clientel, poor parking conditions, and filling a very large place with enough people to keep the doors open.

In short, a business plan that works for one area (even though similar) will not necessarily mean it will work in the next. Some types of companies it is very easy to work off of a "model" plan..such as you can with a movie theatre, but a theatre like this is a different ball game even though it is similar in history and size as both the Jersey City and Bronx locations.

I can say that if you been to a dinner theatre where they actually served you the main course while you are trying to watch the show, then you attended a dinner theatre that was not really run well.

I would NEVER serve an entree during the main event. What I would probably do is have alternate entertainment during dinner and once dinner is done, everything is cleared away and then the main show starts. As for more comfortable seating, that can be arranged so when people are done eating they can kick back and relax. Obviously a standard banquet chair is no good.

Also keep in mind, I am depicting ONE of many uses for the space. The point I am making is that it is probably not a good idea to with a standard chair "bolted to the floor" scenario. Thus one evening you can have a dinner theatre event and the following evening rearrange the space with 'normal' theatre seating.

Here is another scenario: What if you want to host a fashion show? Normal theatres are not good for this because of the runway...which runs lengthwise and people have to crane their heads over in one turned direction all the time. Can one say neck-ache??? With a flexible seating plan, the seats can be arranged around the runway.

This stems to the next scenario. What about a dance show? You want the people to get as close to the performers as possible. So you extend the stage into the 'normal' seating area. Put your orchestra in the back of the real stage and then seat your guest in a 'U' shape around the stage. I am sure you have seen "Dancing with the Stars". That is what I am talking about.

There are many many many options to alternate seating and increasing the programming flexibility can ensure the theatre survives.

Like I said, it is going to take a really really really smart business person with a really really good plan. Then comes the money to pull the project off.

Hello again;
Boy am I glad to have Bruce 1 back, and that is not sarcasm folks. I can easily see this as both a performance space and, possibly even a television studio. Then again, my degrees are in theater and broadcasting. Either way, let's hope they keep the inside. One should not change something that once had beauty.

Hello Gustave,

I would agree. But if you follow my posts you can easily see that the space could be reconfigured and still keep at least 85% of the building's originality and grandeur intact.

From what I also understand the Kings has a very large basement and that could reconfigured for alternative functions or could even expand the backstage dressing areas and storage areas.

I can also see putting in TV feeds as well for broadcasting live events...but that is a given anyway.

There are many ways a building this size could be transformed into a very functional community arts center and if it is planned carefully, not much has to be altered to deter from the building's original appearance. So the grand lobby, the nice balcony seating, the ceilings and proscenium areas can all remain intact and be fully restored.

The basement, lounges, and other areas of less importance could be altered for other functions as I illustrated above.

It is a very big project and beyond my capability in both planning and finances.

What amazes me is that even though this building hasn't been in use for 30 years, the structure overall faired much better than I thought. It is a very good example of a Rapp & Rapp designed structure (of whom also designed Chicago's famous Uptown theatre which is also still standing, but not in operation).

Anyway, I do hope the Kings gets a new life and is restored. It would be a testament to theatre history that all of the Loew's 5 Wonder Theatres remain intact for future generations to enjoy.

Keeping that in mind, a nice historical theatre tour could be planned to visit all 5 theatres (since they are all roughly located in the same area). That right there is another way to drum up business for the 5 theatres as a whole.

Geo

Many people remember the Kings. If you can find someone in the restoration field that actually does then they may be interested. Another possibility is Castle Construction in Queens, since the company, I believe, is restoring the Suffolk Theater in Riverhead and a Brooklyn hotel. The Suffolk, like the Kings, is a former vaudeville house. You may want to also contact the Patchogue Theater for the Performing Arts, another former vaudeville and movie house in Patchogue, New York, to see what company did the restoration there. That only closed for a few years, but it was multiplexed before the closing.

Hello Gustave,

Seems like you are very much familiar with Long Island. I am a Long Island person myself. I am very familiar with the Patchogue Theatre project. That theatre had a huge push behind it, which was the theatrical company "Gateway Playhouse"...of which they do have their own facility but pushed to restore the Patchogue Theatre's restoration to have a larger venue. While Gateway no longer has financial control over the Patchogue Theatre, they do continue to host events there. The Patchogue is very successful due to Gateway because Gateway is a professional theatrical company and they mostly do Broadway shows and musicals. There aren't many companies that do that here on the island. Anyway, there is a need for theatres on Long Island. The sad thing is that most of the larger movie houses that could be converted to live theatre, have long since been either destroyed or 'absorbed' into shopping centers. Due to the suburban nature of Long Island, many older theatres were part of strip malls, shopping centers and main street thoroughfares. Needless to say, just about all were sitting on valuable property. Once the theatre wasn't profitable anymore, it closed and it was either demolished or transformed into a retail outlet. Ironically, by me the old RKO Theatre and the North Babylon Theatre both have become Blockbuster Video stores.

Geo

I dont believe the Bellport Gateway got involved with Patchogue Theater until a time AFTER the Patchogue Theater was restored.

The Suffolk Theater in Riverhead was constructed in the late 1930's to show movies and was not set up for Vaudville. You may be thinking of the old Music Hall which has been restored or the long gone Riverhead Theater on west Main Street, that was located next to the corner bank, before it was torn down forty or more years ago. It may be that the Suffolk has been altered with a bigger stage, dressing rooms and necessary lighting and rigging, etc. since renovations began some years ago, but when I lasted saw a movie there before it closed, there was no facility for Vaudville.

The RFP submission deadline has now been pushed out to June 4, 2008. That tells me that the city hasn't received any serious proposals or maybe hasn't received any proposals at all. Anyone here have better info on the RFP situation?

RFP link - http://www.nycedc.com/Web/AVAILABLEPROJECTS/RFPsRFQsRFEIs/Developer+Operator++Loews+Kings+Theatre.htm

The only thing I can say is that I hope it comes through

IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!! As you can see I was the last person to add something here and that was nine days ago, almost ten.

It's now 2 months since the RFP deadline. I've seen nothing in the papers or online about the Loew's Kings. If we don't hear anything by the end of September then this project has to be considered as not viable. The theater is in such poor shape that it might not make any economic sense to rehabilitate it. Sadly I can see where it may have to be torn down within the next few years for safety reasons. It's been barely maintained for over 30 years.

NHU, this is one of the most magnfificient movie palaces ever built in the US. These projects take time, and funding.

The current recession, which some economists are starting to call another Depression, isn't helping the situation.

I agree with Warren. The current state of the economy has to be affecting the viability of certain proposals. However, this theater is just too important to just write off and say that it should be torn down because no one will save it. While it is true that it has sat unused for almost 30 years, no one has said that it is not structurally sound. The city did reinforce the walls and ceilings and the only sttructural damage appears to have been the retail space fronting Flatbush Avenue which has, in fact, already been torn down.

I think this theater is going to need an angel that can provide a grant/donation to jump start this project. If my memory serves correctly, the city has absolutely said that they would contribute capital funds for any renovation of the Kings. What they won't do is provide operating funds. The theater will have to pay its own way once it's up and running.

I refuse to give up hope for this theater which, in my opinion, is one of the two most beautiful theaters in the country (the other being the Uptown in Chicago) that is sitting abandoned and unrenovated. There is now movement at The Uptown and we've seen the Paradise in the Bronx and The Jersey in Jersey City (other formerly abadoned Wonder Theaters)returned to their old grandeur. The Kings will have a happy ending......someday!

Hi. I came across your site and am thrilled that there’s some dialogue at least about the Loew’s Kings. I graduated HS there and was probably among the last schools to do so. It is a magnificent theatre and, frankly, I thought it was made into something else by now. Well, luckily not, but I am shocked that it is sitting there rotting. After seeing the recent RFP tour pix inside-I am glad that it is not in worse condition. I am happy that the roof is fixed and hope that the building is secured against future vandalism and hopefully inside jobs as well. Water damage is such a nightmare but the place looks better than I thought and the damage seems to be concentrated as I could decipher from the pictures. I think it is definitely salvageable. It would be a travesty if it was left this way or demolished.

Having said that, the only concern I have is that if the neighborhood is not safe, then all that work would be totally undone fast. I grew up in Flatbush in the late 50’s-mid 80’s and in the late 50’s Flatbush Avenue was simply beautiful. Such upscale mom and pop type stores -- a grand boulevard that you could stroll safely. I watched it decline in the 70’s to nothing but cheap junk stores and drugs I certainly wouldn’t STROLL there any longer. With the demise of Macy’s and Woolworths, etc. and all the other lovely theatres and Garfield’s cafeteria and Jahn’s on Church Ave. there was simply nothing left.

I live in SI now but would certainly come back to the Kings if it was restored and would also donate to the rehab cause.

I’m sure I’m not going to say anything new here but as I see it, the theatre is not getting enough publicity. I think an all out appeal from every angle needs to be done. From local officials to TV documentaries, local cable stations, large newspapers, etc. I also believe that Ms. Streisand needs to be approached again. However, if she does not respond, perhaps someone on the level of Bill Gates who is always looking for causes and currently is overseeing teaching children in schools how to play bridge so he may be receptive to arts related projects. The word needs to get out beyond where it has been. I also think people who grew up in the neighborhood and have fond memories would definitely donate to a fund raiser and contractors may be persuaded to work at favorable rates in order to have their name linked with the project.

As for its income generating capacity on an ongoing basis, there are tons of events that can be held there as long as SAFETY and parking can be guaranteed. A woman in SI that runs a dance school restored the St. George Theatre and the events are great people attend and love it. It is a total success. In addition to movies, schools can resume commencements. There can be recitals, all performing arts, religious services, comedy shows and awards shows. Look at Radio City with Oscars. The St. George has all sorts of specials such as senior’s groups and Tony Bennett appeared.

Local merchants should pony up $ as well because if the theatre

Sorry I got cut off--if the theatre were open it would attract people to the area!

Welcome Staten Island Ellie! It's great to see your enthusiasm for the Kings. My Junior High School graduation was at The Valencia and I never got to see a movie in The Kings, but I am a big fan of the Wonder Theaters and want to see them all restored and in public use. Four have been saved and one, The Jersey, actually shows movies. I've had the pleasure of seeing The Day The Earth Stood Still there and had a great time.

In my opinion, The Kings is arguably, the most beautiful of the Wonder theaters. Even in its decayed state it it truly an incredible site to behold. I've had the opportunity to tour the abandoned theater on 2 ocassions as part of the EDC's RFP process
and I've posted my detail obeservations on those visits in prior posts above.

I agree that this theater has great promise as a performing arts center; especially given the success of The St. George on Staten Island. I live in Manhattan, but I took the ferry over with some friends to see Joy Behar and was amazed at how big that theater was and what a wonderful job they are doing. (Now if they could only replace that monstrous marquee with a proper one befitting a theater of this stature!)

When I visited the Kings, I was actually impressed with how nice Flatbush Avenue was. My image (having never been to that area of Brooklyn in my life and I'm a life long New Yorker) was that it was a border line slum and it most defintitely was not. The retail strip was lively and while it didn't have a lot of high end retailers there were virtually no empty storefronts. The only abandoned building was, of course, The Kings. The surrounding areas wer filled with well kept single family homes and small apartment buildings and I felt quite secure walking in the area and would absolutely visit The Kings in the future if it had programming that appealed to me.

Another case in point is the New Jersey Performing Arts Center which has had tremndous success even though it was placed in downtown Newark (and not that close to Penn Station at that)! Most of their programming has been geared to the local population and they have done very well.

There is room in Brooklyn for both The Brooklyn Academy of Music and a restored Loews Kings as performing arts Centers. Brooklyn has 2.6MM people for gosh sakes! This is really a no brainer. In this case, it truly is a situation of "If you build it, they will come!"

I'm hopeful that they will build it......and we will come!

I don't live in the New York area, but I think the probability of local merchants voluntarily contributing to the King's restoration is just about zero. Good luck with Streisand as well. The task of getting the Kings restored and operating is immense and complicated, and, in my opinion, is not going to be accomplished through fund raisers. This project will require, in essence, a government bail-out and an owner with substantial resources willing to assume a sizeable risk.

I agree with Scott. The local merchants and community fundraisers won't be enough. This is much more complicated than The Jersey's restoration. Nonetheless, I believe there are many more opportunities in Brooklyn as well, but it won't happen without city grants and other assistance which the city has said it WILL provide.

Bottom line, what is the chief concern that is deterring a company from taking on the Kings? We know it will take a huge investment to restore the building, but it appears that the Borough of Brooklyn, and perhaps other govt assistance, will help to some extent. Is that still the main hurdle? Or is it the concern of being able to operate at a profit? If that's the case, there is no reason why the Kings can't be as successful as other similarly-sized theatres in similar surroundings, such as the St. Louis Fox, which has operated in the black for many years now. The Kings could surely attract the same types of bookings that the Fox does. Anyway, I'm no expert, but I'd be very surprised if the Kings couldn't put together the necesary bookings to turn a profit. So is it mainly the restoration cost or the viabiity of operating at a profit that is holding this up?

Scott, I don't think turning a profit is the issue. There are many ways to make this theater viable. It is turning a profit after based on an almost $70 million in investment. Even if you factor that the government is kicking in $35 million, it is still an amazing obstacle. I think a solution might be to take the $35 million and start renovations. Not the grand plans that have been suggested, but fixing what's already there. The plaster work that is missing being replaced by a fiber glass concoction, renovate the existing stage and rigging, seating etc. These are big projects in and of themselves but I think you could attract a bigger base of possible partners with a partially completed theater than what is there now.

I agree that starting is better than simply talking about it but there is no one to start. I do believe that restoring is better than simply fixing.

Has Marty Markowitz said anything about the Loew's lately? He really ran with this project but has been very quiet about it lately. Any Brooklyn political insiders here with real info on the project?

I would like to know what happened after the RFP tour in the spring. It seems as though project gets resurrected and we get false hopes then it dies again. Shame.

Tony, that was my assumption as well. I wouldn't think the King's would have difficulty finding product or attracting customers. But the investment required is very large, and is probably the principal factor inhibiting potential buyers.

Great video on the Kings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83NOdIXot3s&feature=related

OK well I thought since I've been commenting on this topic, that I should go visit so I can comment with some knowledge. So I took a little trip to Flatbush Avenue Saturday. Haven't been there in 30 years. My prior concern is confirmed. I don't think it will be the cost that's prohibiting the project if you find the right investors and operators and do some fundraising I think with a huge group effort it can be done. My concern is the area. I previously commented about it and someone countered with Flatbush Ave. being lively. Yes lively but thing is will residents come to events at the theater. I found the area not to be mostly carribean. It appeared to be entirely carribean. So my take is that you would need enough local events to attract the residents but will also need events that attract outsiders to sustain a profit. I also found that the avenue was not the upscale boulevard of the 50's. Some stores were quite seedy. So for the theater to generate an ongoing profit, it will have to have events that cater to the local population and as mentioned, awards shows, and headliners to tap into a larger audience. Obviously the key is to have the theater booked all the time. Thing is for outsiders to converge on Flatbush Avenue during the daytime - you will have a traffic issue and disruption of this main shopping area. If you have evening events - you will have to guarantee visitors safety otherwise no one will come. And of course at all times - parking. You know if there were some decent restaurants nearby, people would go to a show and then have a bite either beforehand or afterwards. It was so sad to see it boarded up. Of course none of the stores that were there when I lived there remain. Even the really cool bldg. that Macy's once occupied has been altered to house Staples and Old Navy, etc.

When people say that the Kings needs to promote "local" events as part of their product mix, they don't mean just Flatbush! It means a large part of BROOKLYN!

The New Jersey Performing Arts Center is a perfect example of this. They present programs that appeal to African Americans, Latins and Portuguese in addition to more traditional fare and it is one of the busiest PA centers in the country. Newark has a huge crime problem (Brooklyn does not, regardless of your perception) and yet their Performaing Arts Center does quite well.

No, Flatbush is not the same as it was in the 50's. But this is not a slum by any stretch of the imagination. I'm a lifelong New Yorker and I was very pleasantly surprised by the area. I'm a firm believer in "If you build it, they will come!" Look at Dumbo, Downtown Brooklyn, Ft. Greene, Park Slope, etc.... These areas were god awful, but they were turned around. New Yorkers are also much more likely to visit the boroughs now than they used too. They're not afraid to ride the subways at night. That also bodes well for The Kings.

Finally, there is one more very important statistic. Brooklyn has 2.6MM people! That would be the 4th largest city in the America. In all of Brooklyn, the only significant performance space is The Brooklyn Academy of Music (which is spectacular) and perhaps we can add the PA center at Brooklyn College. That is remarkably little in a "city" the size of Brooklyn. A showplace like The Kings can easily book many shows and, yes, I do believe people would come not just from Brooklyn, but from Manhattan as well.

As far as parking goes, there is parking right behind the theater and more could be built on the lot, if deemed necessary.

Remember that the other Loew's Wonder Theatres: The Jersey, The Paradise, The Valencia and The 175th Street all in areas that were considered dicey at best and all have been restored by either private enterprise, local volunteers or churches. The Kings (when compared to the othe Wonder Theatres is probably in the nicest neighborhood of all. The only thing truly holding The Kings back is the actual cost of the renovations. Once restored, I have no doubt that it will carry itself quite well.

The Loew's Kings is one of the most spectacular theatres ever designed by the architects, Rapp & Rapp. For a Chicago firm, they went all out in the New York City area with the Brooklyn Paramount (their most spectacular design),the Times Square Paramount and the Loew's Jersey. In square footage, the Kings is one of the largest motion picture theatres ever built. This wonderful theatre must be saved so that generations to come can comprehend what entertainment was like for their ancestors.

I agree I think if you build it people will come and it is spectacular. And yes I saw that they even razed the bldg's next to the theater which can be used for parking besides the lot mentioned behind the theater. I wish I couldve seen inside of it. And again, I think with a combination of public funds, private developer, and donations it can happen. I don't think Flatbush Avenue is a slum. And I do remember when you couldnt pay anyone to live in Park Slope and now its untouchable for most people to live there. So now is the time to start on the ground floor. I did see alot of movement from Coney Island Avenue towards Flatbush Avenue. Alot of diversity and alot of renovations going on and the prices are escalating. I thing apartments were the ruination of alot of areas. When people own something, they have more inclination to take care of it. Any ETA on how long a restoration would take to complete? Any word on if anyone expressed an interest after the spring tour? When I said local I mean not only ethnic and cultural I mean also continuing graduations as in the past and also perhaps dance school productions and senior events with specials and packages to attract groups. The St. George in SI does that and I tell you people are flocking there and it gets alot of press in the SI paper because a local woman restored it. It is also attracting named headliners.

I think the city should really pick up the ball here and start spending the $35 million it promised to kick and really start renovations in earnest. Once developers see what is going on it will be easier to find someone to finish it. If not, then plans would have to be scaled back and use it as a non-profit performing arts center. Certainly not as grand as it could be but something that could be continually improved over time with grants, very little by very little.

This article in today's NY Daily News might prove of interest to those trying to save the Kings. Where did the $22 million come from for the Jamaica project?:
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2008/08/11/2008-08-11_curtain_rises_at_new_jamaica_performing_.html

Wow. I dont know whether to feel better or worse given the above article. I simply dont know why this is so hard to get off the ground. I also didnt know the city was committed to kick in $35K more than I expected. Thats half of the projected cost (but we all know how stuff always runs over budget) and I really dont think corners should be cut with the restoration. So an additional $35k from private investors isnt too much to ask in my book and again I think alot of money can be raised by people like us who would love to kick in some to restore it. It just needs that start and momentum. Was downtown yesterday and saw some demolition going on. I believe its where the Albee theater was. Shame, another one bites the dust. Maybe people are more sympathetic to churches? Who knows.

The new performing arts center in Jamaica is apparently a beneficiary of the Greater Jamaica Development Corporation. Is there a similar corporation for the Flatbush area? Perhaps not, as Jamaica's commercial future seems to be more important to Queens than Flatbush's is to Brooklyn. In Brooklyn, the emphasis appears to be on downtown and Coney Island.

The city will commit at least $35MM to the Kings. I think the problem lies in how much more it will actually cost to restore and who would be responsible for overages. This project is crying out for a Corporate White Knight like Keyspan (a Brooklyn Based Corporation) to provide a significant grant in exchange for naming rights - The Keyspan Kings Theatre. Ideally I would like it to keep the Loews Kings name, but if it means the name has to be sold to get it done, so be it. I would insist that "Kings" be part of any name ultimately attached.

Where was it reported that the city would spend at least $35 million on restoring Loew's Kings? I have been actively involved in Save The Kings since 1987 and had not heard any such figure.

For all nostalgia buffs: In the basement of Loew's Kings there was a rarely or never used screening room. Everything in the room is covered with a fine plaster dust. However one wall sports a few -- holes where the projectors were once situated.

On my last trip to the theater, I noticed that the murals on both sides of the balcony were now --- missing. Perhaps even more interesting, they weren't torn down by the homeless, but removed by a professional who took care to peel them off the wall gradually leaving a white plaster rectangle in their absence. How could this happen? (Great Security!)

I believe to make the Kings profitable, it must become a Center for the Performing Arts and should be enclosed in a big box shopping mall. In that way the lobby of the theater can provide access to more than the theater. It could also provide access to an adjoining multiplex, a comedy or jazz club in the former basketball court, etc.

A previous post talked about the Victorian Furniture that could be restored. BUT whatever happened to that furniture? After 30 years, where could it be? Don't worry it's been preserved and protected by the former manager of Loew's Kings. Along with all kinds of memorabilia that could be the backbone of a Loew's Kings Museum. Imagine a visual history of the vaudeville days and the movies of the 60s and 70's! It's all intact and waiting!

Bruce1

Unfortunately, the Loews Kings is an artifact of a time and culture that is long past. The population it served is old and dying off and most have long since moved from the area.
The people living in the area today have little or no interest in something they never experienced. I say this by reading the postings on this site. Few if any give any indication of current residence in Flatbush.
Given the current needs of today's residents and the growing economic downturn which is reducing tax revunes to NYC, it is not likely that tax money wll be spent on a nostalgia trip to restore the derilect "Wonder Theater" which can never be viable without constant subsidy.
The only hope would be for some millionaire to donate $50 million to restore it and another 20 million in an endowment to maintain it.

Wait a minute here, but there are those of us former Brooklynites who live such places as Long Island. I say that if we are willing to take a trip into Junior's for the Cheesecake and Nathan's for the hot dogs we will be willing to take a trip to the Kings. It will be our theater forever, no matter where we go.

The City IS willing to grant significant money towards the restoration. Again, the issue ultimately is how much is it going to cost in the end. The city has made it clear that they will provide outright grants to renovate, but they will NOT provide operating expenses. Nonetheless, a potential developer has to be concerned with who would pay for the inevitable cost overruns. That's why we need a corporate white knight or millionaire who wants his name in lights to step forward.

I totally disagree that this theater is not viable without constant subsidy. As I mentioned in above posts Brooklyn is a "city" of 2.6MM people with a vast middle class. There are only two true performing arts centers: The Brooklyn Academy of Music and Brooklyn College. There IS room for more. The city has just announced a grant of $20MM for a new performing arts center in an old church in Jamaica, Queens! Jamaica! $20MM! The Kings will get a bigger grant as long as the developer can provide plans to operate without subsidy. I think the issue is more about the actual cost to renovate.

J.F. Lundy, you underestimate the public's interest in the flamboyant movie theatres of the 1920s, such as the Kings. Many such theatres across the country do very well, and I'm sure most of their attendees are not from the generation that saw these places get built. The financial hurdle for the Kings is difficult, as it would be for any large building in such condition, but I don't agree that there will not be interest from the public to attend it once it is reopened.

Scott;
You are correct. These theaters are being used for many performance purposes like concerts. I can name two offhand, the Patchogue Center for the Performing Arts in Patchogue, New York, and the Majestic Theater in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. This is a feasible idea.

Most of the movie palaces that have been converted into SUCCESSFUL performing arts centers are located in places where they have little or no competition. Unfortunately, the Kings is in the New York City area, which has a plethora of such venues in Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn. I'm talking not only about converted cinemas, but also concert halls, opera houses, and "legit" theatres. That was the "curse" of the Kings when still a cinema. Most of the patronage came from the Flatbush area. I doubt if the profits were ever enough to earn back the original cost of the construction.

I've never had the pleasure of living in the NY area, so if you say that a city the size of Brooklyn couldn't, or wouldn't, support one 1920s movie palace, then I can't refute that. But in the city I reside, St. Louis, people from all over the metro area attend the Fox Theatre in large numbers. If other venues were built, or restored, I believe the Fox would still be popular. People love the Fox and that's that. I can't imagine that the Kings wouldn't be a special destination for Brooklynites.

Scott, in St. Louis, how many other theatres offer the same sort of attractions as the Fox?

I have to agree with Scott on this one. Yes, there are many other venues in New York City as a whole, but there are very few in Brooklyn and let's not forget that there are many, many, many more people in New York to support those venues.

The movie palaces that have been restored so far appear to be doing well. The Loew's 175th Street in Washington Heights has become a popular concert venue, The Beacon has been serving the same function for many years. The St. George in Staten Island has also done very well as has Loew's Jersey in Jersey City. The only possible exception might be the Paradise, which doesn't appear to have a lot of events, yet you don't hear that it is in financial trouble.

My point is that all of these palaces (except for the Beacon) are in areas that would have been classified by most people as slums not very long ago and today they have been restored and are successful.

Each palace has its own individual story. The 175th Street was restored by a church, The Beacon by a major corporation, The Jersey by the City of Jersey City and very dedicated voluteers, The St. George by the heroic work of one local woman and The Paradise by an entrepeneur. Every palace has its own individual path. The Kings will be no different. But the Kings would probably result in the most beautiful theater restoration of them all!

As Warren has posted on The Valencia's site, New York just aproved a grant of $20MM for a new Performing Arts complex in Jamaica, Queens, which will transform a historic church into an arts space. Jamaica too is a former "down at the heels" neighborhood that is seeing a rebirth.

New York is a wealthy, big, and varied city. I repeat that, while the city as a whole has lots of performing Arts spaces, Brooklyn itself is woefully short of it. That is why the Kings has a real shot at success. If you build it they will come and not just from Brooklyn. Many from the Diaspora would return as well. Brooklyn in now Cool!

Even though St. Louis is nowhere near as culturally advanced as New York, I can think of probably 4 or 5 performance venues that seat at least 2 to 3 thousand people, for a metro area of about 2.5 million. But the Fox is without question the largest at 5000 seats. It's where the Broadway shows usually wind up, Tony Bennett, etc. But that's my point; yes, the Fox sticks out like a sore thumb in St. Louis, but wouldn't the Kings have the same stature in Brooklyn? Warren, you sound pretty negative about the Kings. I thought New Yorkers were of hardier spirit.

I'm pessimistic about the Kings because of what's been happening with its Bronx sibling, the Paradise-- nothing! Though they're in different boroughs, the circumstances are the same. If the Paradise can't make it, why would anyone risk spending a fortune on the Kings, which is in even worse condition than the Paradise was when the current owners took over? Renovation of the Kings would cost double or triple that.

Hey Warren, I agree with your concern about the Paradise and the resemblence between the two, but instead of focusing on the one possible negative (The Paradise), why not focus instead on the palaces that are doing well: The Beacon, The St. George, The Loews 175th St. and the Loews Jersey.

I don't know what's going on at the Loews Paradise, but it could just be inept management rather than an inability to book events.

Recently, a poster inquired about how to contact the owner of the Paradise because she wanted to hold her wedding reception there and I'm not sure if she ever got through. That is an example of incompetent managment when someone who wants to give you business can't get a hold of you. It doesn't mean that the demand isn't there.


A side note to Scott. In addition to all of the concert/event venues that New York offers there are also about 37 Broadway theaters and there is demand to keep them all up and running thanks not only to local demand but to the booming tourist industry who have kept New York's economy running relatively well while the rest of the country struggles.

The Beacon and 175th Street draw heavily from Manhattan, and would be considered direct competion to the Kings. The 175th is mainly a church. so it doesn't depend on concerts to survive. I think that the "success" of the St. George and Loew's Jersey has yet to be proved. The Staten Island project cost peanuts in comparison to what it will cost for the Kings, and the work at the Jersey has been done by volunteers.

Warren, I understand your point about the cost to restore the Kings, and your comparison to the Bronx Paradise. If the place is ever restored, it will certainly need to have better programming than what is presented at the Bronx Paradise to survive. It does appear to have adequate parking, and could easily have more, so that is in its favor. I hope it can work someday.

I may add that the Kings was a place where future giants of show business worked as ushers. Barbra Streisand, Sylvester Stallone, and Henry Winkler walked its aisles as their first job. Not many other theaters can make that claim. Ben Vereen, whose mother worked in the basement, danced on the stage there. When it comes down to it, this theater has a historical background in American popular culture.

I don't think the area has to be "safe" before the Kings can be up and running. The area around BAM was very bad before it was fully restored (to have a movie theater in it, the BAM ROSE.) The restoration of BAM helped IMPROVE the area. So the theater's restoration comes first, then the area itself may get better. I see Loews Kings as featuring r&b, rap and maybe even some alternative rock. Brooklyn is losing an alternative rock venue (McCarren park) so this would be a good replacement, though not outdoors as McCarren is.) There are a lot of hipsters on Cortelyou/Ditmas Park, who got priced out of the pricier parts of Brooklyn. It's all a matter of marketing. I think the main thing keeping the Kings from coming back is the amount of money involved in the restoration and the fear that it's too big a risk to undertake. Markowitz said nothing about the Kings at the free concert series he hosts in the summer. Then again, I only went to one show.

The Apollo Theater on 125th Street in Manhattan has had large amounts of money pumped into it and still requires more subsidy. It has a tremendous talent pool available and political support that the Kings can never hope to have.

The Kings requires an unbeliveable amount of BTU's just to heat it in winter. Most folks have no idea what basic operating costs are for a barn like that. To be viable commercially you would have to fill it not only on weekends but have good numbers during the week from some activity or other. Do you know what it would cost in electricity today just to light up the marquee and vertical for a few hours at night ?

Brooklyn had many things in the past, from the Dodgers to trolley cars on Flatbush Avenue. It would be great to see them return, but as with the Kings, it is not probable.

Well alot to comment on here. First off I'm shocked the murals disappeared. They were beautiful. I looked forward to seeing one in particular, when the theatre would finally be restored. This is an outrage. Who is getting in there? Where is the security? Or who has the keys? I do agree the locals have no interest in something they weren't a part of in years past. They would, I'm sure be supportive once the place is up and running and had events of interest. But to get them on board with a restoration - forget it. I also agree that if people come back for Nathan's and Junior's they would come to the Kings. Again it's MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING. I'd come back. If you get big names-people will come. Look at the Beacon. Off the beaten path but people come. I love the idea of a museum and maybe a club but a club may be too much. The possibilities are endless and if you keep an open mind-the theater can be booked solid and definitely turn a profit. I do see gentrification on Cortelyou Road so thats promising on many levels. Also yes it was pointed out that other venues had volunteers. I think for the Kings to be a go, it has to have effort on many levels both financially and all else. I'm sure people would volunteer. So with perhaps money coming in from govt, donations, and maybe a white knight that could amount to alot. And with work being done with perhaps contractors who care (need a good contract here and good references) and volunteers; and with events that cover lots of areas such ad recitals, graduations, perhaps weddings, shows, movies, concerts, etc. then it can work. My question is why does Markowitz seem to run hot and cold on this? I think if the plight was again highlighted in the paper and on tv with perhaps appeals on the air, people may rally. But it cant be a push then die it has to really be an all-fronts attack. As for all the big names that were the history. Weren't these folks approached and never answered. I guess they just dont care. Where's Trump. He came in when the Central Park Skating rink was languishing and he got the job done. But then it will Be the Trump Kings but who cares as long as its done and a success. Has anyone tried him? He was big in Bklyn year's before people really knew who he was. His (father mostly) name was all over projects in Coney Island.

My question is why does Markowitz seem to run hot and cold on this?

No one can fault Marty Markowitz on this. The obstacles may be too many. The neighborhood is still the problem. It may be safer than in the 1980s but has a low-rent look to it. Ditmas Park people haven't shopped on Flatbush Avenue for over 30 years. Even a Brooklyn booster like Marty can't devote 100% of his time and energy to this one project.

Agreed-I previously cited the neighborhood but got clobbered on this one about how other venues are in worse places. Not faulting Markowitz but if his heart is in it--it needs the full court press. Understand that there are other more serious issues. Thing with the Kings is its either 100% or forget it cause its a tough sell. On my recent visit back I noticed same thing surprised at the gentrification from Coney Island Ave. on. But minute you cross Ocean Ave. same as 30 years ago and the Ditmas Park people may as well be on another planet. I think Flatbush Avenue may be slower to gentrify if at all. The newbies have to have stores to attract them but they aren't there yet. And I was put off by the seedy look to the stores and also the roving teens were a bit scary as well--you know the type the staredowns, the pants down to the floor, the cursing, the im not moving you walk around me attitude-maybe not the main issue but you can't ignore it either.

Sorry, I don't buy the neighborhood issue for a second. Flatbush Avenue has a worse perception than Washington Heights? (Loew's 175th), Journal Square? (Loews Jersey), Stapleton? (St. George), Harlem (The Apollo), The South Bronx? (The Paradise). Until recently, the area around the Brooklyn Academy of Music would have fallen under this category as well, but the restoration of BAM and its artistic programming has helped to revive the area as would the Kings. No, Flatubush's reputation is nowhere near as bad as those other areas and yet those other areas have retored palaces!

Blaming the problem of the Kings on the neighborhood is a cop out and not at all supported by the facts. How do you explain that all of these theaters were restored despite the fact that they were in "problem" neighborhoods? The reality is that we still have the Kings today because Flatbush Avenue has not yet made a transition to high end retail. If it had, the Kings would have been demolished years ago for a new mall or gutted as so many other palaces have been over the years. The problem, in my opinion, is solely on how much the retoration would cost and who would pay for overruns.

You must also consider the number of times that a restoration has boosted a neighborhood. In the 1970s and 1980s, the South Beach section of Miami was a bunch of run down and vacant hotels. Suddenly, one person had the idea of renovating one of the historic hotels and others followed. Today it is one of the top travel destinations in the world. The restoration of the Kings may just be the boost that Flatbush needs.

Flatbush is booming, but apparently not in the vicinity of the Kings Theatre. The action has moved to the area around Brooklyn College:
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/08/16/2008-08-16_targets_latest_city_outlet_in_flatbush_i.html

I'm not blaming the neighborhood. There are many factors-mostly as stated, cost and overruns and continuing profit. However, the neighborhood doesn't help. I think once it were restored the rest of the area will pick up. BUT the issue is, in my opinion, prospective developers may not agree and thats holding up the commitment of someone to come in and move on it in addition to the financial issues. So it becomes a catch 22. Someone who thinks its a worthwhile risk is the fish thats needed here. Again it comes down to MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING someone has to do a big sell here.

The Loew's Jersey is not restored. They are open and presenting occasional shows, but very little has been restored in the last 5 years. In fact, there are elements (marquee, clock tower) that are in worse shape now then they were several years ago.

They do have a fully restored organ (and it's magnificent) but that's due to the hard work and dedication of the Garden State Theater Organ Society.

This is probably another reason why the Kings is a "hard sell" for developers. Can the area support two performing arts centers?
http://www.brooklyncenter.com/

People seem to think area can support two. Again Kings has nostalgic value. That's why I thought the museum idea was marvelous because that will add value. You won't only get events patrons, but people who remember the theatre, architectural fans and people interested in brooklyn history and entertainment history.

Think in the long term and not the short term. Brooklyn with a population of over two million is coming back after a long decline. More people are moving to Brooklyn from Manhattan as it has become to expensive live. Oakland with a population of just 400,000 will have two theatres seating 3000 each. I think Brooklyn with over two million could support another theatre. The Kings has parking which many venues do not have. A restored movie palace has helped revive many locations across the country. Its fine to be realistic but I would focus on what could be done with the Kings in a more positive manner instead of all the negatives. Why does full restoration have to happen all at once. If the City is willing to spend 35 Million towards its restoration at least get the theatre operational and do some of the cosmetic work needed. Restore a section of the Kings so people could see what it would looks like fully restored.The Kings in my humble opinion is the most magnificient theatre still standing in New York City. brucec

I am very sorry to learn about the missing murals. Is it true that over the past 30 years many light fixtures and other artifacts were removed as well?

In the current photos, I can see that somebody has removed the front off and taken the circa 1954 Altec surround speakers. Those fetch pretty big money in the collectors market.

Have these rare items been placed in safe storage by the city, or did they wind up stolen and sold for profit?

There will be no comparison between a restored Kings and Brooklyn College's sterile non descript Performing Arts Center. The Kings will be a true destination and will be a vital part of the experience that they are paying for.

What would you all think about contacting that performing arts center? The theater here in Patchogue gets help from the Gateway Playhouse. If they can show some interest then that is the better for us. Being part of the college, they are probably not for profit.

Here is a double bill that played the Kings December 1969. Elvis was at the very end of his movie career.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/flareup.jpg

Could "Marty's Money Game" be detrimental to the future of the Kings Theatre? Details here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/09/15/2008-09-15_marty_markowitz_steers_big_bucks_to_nonp-2.html

Markowitz responds: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/09/16/2008-09-16_marty_markowitz_680g_is_legit.html

Inaugural Program from 1929 of Loew's Kings at this URL;
http://cgi.ebay.com/Loews-King-Theatre-Inaugural-Program-1929-Brooklyn-NY_W0QQitemZ120317702075QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120317702075&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#images

i am sorry to hear that the Kings is still in limbo.. I keep hearing about Marty Markowitz now that he is the BP of Brooklyn. I know Marty and I worked for him at his summer concerts. He is 2 faced. He makes it look like he is out there for the people but he is really in it for him self. With the Sea Side concets and the Concerts at Wingate HS Marty for what ever reason got away with not having to put open bids out for sound and lighting companies and hired who he was in cahoots with. He hired a guy to do sound. he did not have enough equipment to even do a small HS auditorium so he had to subcontract out anothe PA rental company. He got away without paying for a stage crew by having volunteers. IA Local #4 was not happy about that because it was in their jurisdiction. One year I tried to put a bid in for the PA Syetem and was told that he was not accepting bids. He was supposed to take open bids because most of the money he got to produce the shows came from the NEA NYS dept of the arts as well as NYC. Yes he had private sponsors but the public ones gave him most of the money. I really hope this is his last political job.
If he was a man of his word the Kings would have been reopened by now.

Seems like Marty is up to his old schtick. You wonder why I don't like him.

A phote of Flatbush Avenue and Loew's Kings during happier times can be seen here.


http://brooklynpix.com/photoframex1.php?photo=/photo1/F/flatbush33.jpg&key=FLATBUSH 33

Why would Marty Markowitz advocate publicly for the Kings but then not actually follow through on it? I'm trying to see how he would gain from that. Is claiming that you will fight for the Kings a difference-maker in an election in Brooklyn? It just seems odd that he would spend so much time talking about it and then not really care. From listening to him, he seems to actually have a fondness for the Kings, though obviously politicians are good at deception. I suspect the real problem is that they simply can't find an investor, or group of investors, that is willing to take on a project of this size and risk.

And thats a shame, because the longer it sits, the worse the condition gets. It will reach a point someday (lets hope not) that the building will be beyond repair.

Scott

You ask why would Marty Markowitz advocate publicly for the Kings but then not actually follow through on it? Because before he became the Beep he was the local state senator for that district in Brooklyn. Marty is a low life pond scum sucker and has been one for as long as I have known him. As I said in another post I hope that this will be the last office he holds. If he was so serious about saving the Kings why is he not talking to the people at BAM. The same people who saved the Majestic Theatre. Why not talk to Cablevision who provides cable to Brooklyn and also owns Radio City Music Hall, Madison Square Garden as well as Beacon Theatre whick is undergoing a $14 million renovation. They are also planning a $500 million renovation of MSG.

Good Point EC Rocker! I too have been very disappointed in the lack of progress at the Kings. I believe that, arguably, this is the most beautiful of the Wonder theaters and that there is so much potential in a well planned and thoughtful renovation. Brooklyn is a city of almost 2.6MM with only BAM and the Brooklyn PAC as real performing arts centers. Surely, there is room for more. To get it done, the city should commit $'s which they are prepared to do. Alas, we don't see what goes on behind the scenes and now with the economy in a tailspin, it is likely the theater will remain dark for many more years. It's very sad all around.

The opening of the introduction needs to be corrected. The Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn was the Loew's "flagship" for that borough. And the five "Wonder Theatres" included one in Jersey City, which is not part of New York City and is, in fact, situated in another state.

East Cost Rocker - I understand why people think Markowitz has failed at organizing a renovation of the Kings. What I don't understand is why he is posturing himself as an advocate if he doesn't intend to champion the cause? Are there a lot of votes to be had for someone who promises to save the Kings? Usually politicians find more generic issues to pretend to care about, not something as arcane as movie palace renovation. It has to be a tough deal to get done, given the location and state of disrepair.

Scott you bring up a vaild point "What I don't understand is why he is posturing himself as an advocate if he doesn't intend to champion the cause?" Think back a few mayors ago. The one after Ed Koch and the one just before Gulianni. He did lots of posturing. He postured to the Blacks,Latin and the Jews of NYC. He promised lots of changes. Not much bacame of them. His inability to act quickly enough insited a major riot in Brooklyn. He got so complacent in office that the USTA was making him dance like a puppet when they were trying to get 30 acres of Prime Park land in Queens which is now the big Tennis center. A deal that the Queens boro president and council voted against. He got his way and pissed off many NY'er in NYC and so it goes he lost his bid for a second term.
It should be a crime that a Palace such as the Kings should be in such bad shape. Maybe Disney can step in like they did for the theatres on 42st. What they did for the New Amsterdam was amazing. I saw Easy Rider there in 1969 and a few other movies years later. It had closed and the Niedlander Corp was going to do a renovation of it and stopped. By doing so the rooftop theater and the floors below suffered for major water damage. I got to see it before Disney repaired it. It was sad and beautiful at the same time. Gulianni pushed to clean up Times Square and got Disney in on it. I don't think Marty has that kind of clout. As I said before Marty is only in it for one thing. Himself and no one else.

With 2.6 million people living in Brooklyn he should be doing a much better job.

I still think the bigger issues are the theatre's location and condition. It's understandable why there aren't interested parties lining up to tackle it.

Scott that whole neighborhood needs an overhaul. By renovating the Kings and the shopping area surrounding it would be a boost to the entire area as well as the boro. I know people think of the lack of parking but they need to consider that there are multiple bus routes up and down Flatbush Ave. It is within a short walking distance from the Beverly Road stop on the D train or what ever letter they are calling it these days. I have not been inside the building it self but if the Google sat pics of the outside and the roof are recent it does not look so bad.

I have been to the two most recent theater tours. There are pictures on Flickr. Just search for Loew's Kings. You will see that the auditorium is in pretty bad shape. It is definately repairable/restorable but at a major cost. I can't see anyone spending millions on that kind of restoration only to get back a fraction of their investment. I would guess that is why we haven't seen anything come of those tours. I say, since the city already owns it, open it up to volunteers, clean out all of the debris and start a non-profit group to run it. The lobby is in pretty good shape and could be made useable much easier than to wait for the whole place to be restored. That is what they did at the Loew's Jersey. While the Kings is in far worse shape than the Jersey, opening up a portion of it to the public could begin to generate interest and, who know's, maybe more corporate involvement to start, ever so slowly, a renovation. I know this is pie in the sky but it may just work.

For the most part the interior walls inside were mostly made of plaster and chicken wire. That is why the water damage makes it look bad. Back then is was easier and cheaper to do it that way compared to concrete especially in the cielinggs and walls that did not need much support.The New York Academy of Music was like that to. It was a scarey feeling knowing that all that stood between you and the floor was a real rickety cat walk. It would not have taken much to put a hole in or fall thourgh it.

I am working on something here and I hope I can find it. A few years back i read that either one of the past CEO's or founder of Lowes Home Imporovement was a graduate of Earasmus Hall HS which is just a few blocks away from the Kings. I am having a hard time finding the web page I saw it on but if and when I do and he is still alive I will try some way to make contact.

I would volunteer. Its an amazing treasure to Brooklyn, NYC, and America. The neighborhood is slowly becoming nicer. With a boost like this it would be much nicer. I am sure we can find a way to make it work.

There are two woderful historic photos of the Loews Kings on the brooklypix.com website:

http://brooklynpix.com/photoframex1.php?photo=/photo99/T/theater311.jpg&key=THEATERS%20311

http://brooklynpix.com/photoframex1.php?photo=/photo99/T/theater312.jpg&key=THEATERS%20312

Thanks Bway. One of those is the same one I posted back in December, but it's nice to see them again.

Here are some photos of the Loew's Kings:

1968 Photo

Another 1968 Photo

1966 Photo

Is the marquee still entact?

The marqee is, but the verticle is gone.

The Marquee: The marquee covers the original installed by Art Kraft Strauss. At the time they owned 51% of Loew's Theaters and therefore got the job. Art Kraft was responsible for those early Times Sq. billboards: (The Smoking Camel Sign, The Pepsi Sign, etc.)

If you stand underneath the marquee, you will see the original underbelly. When Loew's decided on a more modern look, they chopped off the ornate detail and created a box and that remains.

At this point, it's not visible but the original asbestos curtain is up in the fly space! Actually it's an asbestos curtain painted to look like a stage curtain complete with tassels.

On one of my visits to the old dark house, I found that the orchestra pit doors were locked from the inside. This led me to believe that the 'homeless' had taken up residence inside the orchestra pit!

Also that they were responsible for the theft of bathroom copper pipes, brass banisters and those wall sconces. All this would not have been possible without the indifference of the owner, the City of NY.

That is terrible news Bruce. The longer it sits empty, the worse this will get.

I was wondering who I would have to contact if I wanted to take a tour of the Kings. I am sure if I looked hard I could find a way in but I want to see it as a friend and not an intruder.

This is part of an out take of Marty (I sit on my ass and do nothing)Markowitz dated Feb 12th 2009. It was part of the State of the Borough Address
Thursday, February 12, 2009 – Kingsborough Community College
The caps are the way it is on the site so please don't get on me for it



WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TOURISM AND ENTERTAINMENT AS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
—
I ALSO MUST MENTION THE LOEWS KINGS THEATER IN FLATBUSH. — THE LAST
“WONDER THEATER” IN THE CITY THAT HAS NOT BEEN SUBDIVIDED
I HAD MY FIRST DATE IN THE UPPER-LEFT BALCONY — , WHEN I WAS 16, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING IT WAS MY FIRST “COUPLES” DATE — NOT WITH A GROUP BACK THEN, IT WAS CONSIDERED “GETTING SOMEWHERE” TO PUT YOUR ARM AROUND YOUR DATE’S SHOULDER.
(IT’S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY TODAY! — BACK THEN THERE WERE NO “HOT TUBS” EITHER) — BUT WHO MY AGE DIDN’T HAVE THEIR HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION AT THE LOEWS KINGS?
IT’S BEEN EMPTY FOR OVER 30 YEARS — AND NOW I’M PROUD TO SAY WE ARE WORKING WITH NEW YORK CITY E-D-C TO SELECT A DEVELOPER-OPERATOR.
MY DREAM REMAINS THAT THE LOEWS KINGS WILL, SOME DAY IN THE NEAR FUTURE,COMBINE THE APOLLO AND BEACON THEATERS RIGHT HERE IN OUR BOROUGH —AND BE AN ECONOMIC ENGINE FOR FLATBUSH AVENUE AND ALL OF CENTRAL BROOKLYN.
(THANK YOU, E-D-C PRESIDENT AND BROOKLYN RESIDENT, SETH PINSKY)
AND THANK YOU BROOKLYN BOROUGH HISTORIAN RON SCHWEIGER FOR THE GREAT HISTORIC PHOTOS. THE WORLD’S GREAT CITIES ARE DEFINED BY THE BEAUTY, GRANDEUR, AND HUMANITY OF THEIR PUBLIC SPACES.

"Marty" needs a new speech writer. He's been spewing the same hot air since he took office.

Warren you are preaching to the chior here. We all know he is full of hot air. He is a master on manipulating money in to his own pockets. I have personal issues with him going back to the early 90's when he was a NY State Senator. He has mastered his touch while promoting his 2 summer concert series in brookly. Sure there is no cost for the public to attend but his money to pay for it all comes from mostly public funding from Fed State and local levels and a dash or 2 from private corperations. To make it look legit he would book a few acts who were past their prime but still a draw and then book others that had one foot in the grave. He would get the same ammount of money per show but would pay the revival acts much less so what they didn't get went in to his pockets. Don't get me wrong here. Marty has the connections to booking agents and the rest and uses them to his advantage rather then using them to save the Kings.

What does he mean by "the last Wonder Theatre that hasn't been subdivided"? He should have said "the last Wonder Theatre that hasn't been fixed up or maintained in some manner". Does he even know what he's talking about?

I know all you theatre lovers like me are going to call me stupid, but a few weeks ago, when the mega millions was like 270 million dollars, I was hoping, wishing, dreaming that I would win, just so I could buy the Kings theatre, The Ritz in Elizabeth NJ and any other grand palaces left in this area, so people could enjoy them (after massive renovations of course) and save them forever from the wrecking ball.
O.K. go ahead, tell me I was stupid. But what a great dream it was.

Nope your not Stupid Movie. I may have done something like that or even tried to find the plans/blue prints for the now Demolished Academy of Music and had it rebuilt elsewhere.

To Ziggy what Marty meant is that of the 5 Wonder theatres most of them were divided in to duplexes and quads. And no Marty is smart but only when it comes to him and the $$$ in his pockets.

Hello East Coast Rocker:

Thanks for the explanation, but only the Jersey and the Paradise were subdivided, hardly "most". It still comes across as Marty not having a clue.

If "Marty" is so savvy about showbiz, perhaps he should retire from politics and form a syndicate to purchase and operate the Kings.

Warren as long as the people in Brooklyn keep electing his dumb ass he is going to continue be a politician and savor all the perks that come with holding office. Mayor Bloomberg is entitled to receive $225,000 a year. He has opted to only take $1 a year since he has almost as much money as god. The president of the United States gets $400,000 a year. The point being is that even with a salary there are enough perks of being in office that they don't even have to touch their income.
Marty has been having his cake and eating it to long to give it up. Marty talks the talk but in my mind has not walked the walk.

A photo of a fire-scarred exterior wall of Loew's Kings can be found about midway through this article entitled "Slow Fade":
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/ADS/gary.5.09/gary.5.09.html

"AND NOW I’M PROUD TO SAY WE ARE WORKING WITH NEW YORK CITY E-D-C TO SELECT A DEVELOPER-OPERATOR."

This is old news. AFAIK no one replied to the RFP that went out in 2008. The EDC is notoriously slow and obstrctionist. The 2 new SI Ferry terminals still have few retail tenants because of the EDC's incompetence and dawdling. And these are 2 brand new buildings that thousands of middle-class commuters pass through every day.

The NYCEDC is in way over it's head if it thinks it can do anything with a crumbling, closed for 35 years movie theater on a still-rough section of Flatbush Avenue. Who would really want to buy this theater anyway?

I am doing some research for an article on the history/current state of the Loew's Kings. I would like to give a personal flavor to the piece by incorporating someone's experience (date, special performance, childhood memories) at/related to the theater during it's prime...
Would anyone be interested in collaborating?

Warren G. Harris provided this link to a satellite image of the Loew's Kings. Perhaps someone can put a date to it ?

http://www.planetplg.com/images/loews-sat.jpg

It gives a fine overview. Can anyone make out the banner on the former Flatbush Savings Bank building to the right of image?

Great photo! Please tell Warren thanks!

Great photo! I didn't realize the Kings was caddycorner on the property. Like many theaters, while the front part of the building, with the lobby is in line with the rest of the block, the theater auditorium itself is in a totally different position.

Anna of Brooklyn:
Since I am "CEO" of 'Save The Kings' for the past 21 years, I guess I am the world's greatest authority on this last of the wonder theaters to be dormant. What can I do to help?

The first thing you should do is resign your post as CEO of "Save The Kings." It doesn't seem as though much has been accomplished in the past 21 years.

Sorry, I couldn't restrain myself.

At least its still there none of the LOEWS WONDER THEATERS have been torn down yet.

"Since I am "CEO" of 'Save The Kings' for the past 21 years,......."

So Bruce1, what's the latest news? Not much I guess. Looks like Marty Marowitz can't save this one. The building is too far gone, the neighborhood is downscale at best. But I give him credit for being as positive about the Kings for as long as he has been.

At this point it looks like no developer has ever responded to any of the various RFPs. There was never any mention anywhere in the press of any developer or organization showing real interest in the theater. Basically closed since 1977, the building is getting closer to the point where it is unsafe. Now what????????????????

For anyone who is on Facebook, I have made a fan page to help spread awareness of the Kings. Can't believe this didn't already exist. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brooklyn-NY/Loews-Kings-Theatre/322225485388#/pages/Brooklyn-NY/Loews-Kings-Theatre/322225485388?v=wall

I saw many films at this beautiful theater as a child, including the Duke in "True Grit" and Clint Eastwood in "Kelly's Heroes." My high school graduation was held there. (The theater was playing one of my favorites "Where Eagles Dare" at the time and another of my favorites, "Ice Station Zebra," was coming next.)
This was such a beautiful theater, from the brass bannisters that led down the long inner lobby to the stunning painted ceilings.
When I still lived in Brooklyn, the express bus I took each day passed to within a few blocks of the boarded-up Kings. I always wondered why the City of New York, in its endless quest for money, never fixed up the Kings and charged a small admission for guys like myself to come in and relive old memories. Now based on what I'm reading here, it looks like it will never happen. Too bad.

I was surprised to see a picture of the Kings on the front page of AM New York today. Hopefully, it will cause some movement in the fight to save it and many other NY treasures.

It was wonderful to read about other people's experiences and especially the fond memories of my Aunt Dorothy who I will always think of as the Queen of the Kings.

For those who are interested, yes, she's still with us. I visited her several years ago and couldn't believe the amount of memorabilia she has including the pictures of herself with numerous movie stars she kept under the glass top of her desk at the Kings.

Good luck to those still fighting the good fight.

Good news in the New York Times today. Theater finds an "angel" and is set for possible reopening in 2014.

Looks promising.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/crumbling-movie-palace-finds-an-angel/?hp

This is really great news1 I hope Marty and the designated developer can pull it off. Good luck! Go Brooklyn!!

The only time I ever saw a movie here was in the 1970's - shortly before it closed - when I caught a Sunday matinee performance of Rollerball, with James Caan. As I remember it, the place - or at least the first tier - was packed.

Good news MarcH,maybe something will finally be done.

This sounds good! Congrats to Brooklyn. Now, on to the Uptown here in Chicago!

awesome news!!!!

YAY!!!!! What wonderful news! Though the theater is not expected to formally reopen until 2014, the news that it will reopen at all is incredible! There is much work to be done and $70MM should be enough. That was about the amount of money spent on Radio City during its original restoration many years ago.

I was always confident this theater would be saved when others were so negative. I attended two for the theater tours conducted by the city for interested developers. My observations of those visits are posted above. This theater is truly spectacular and will be a jewel for Brooklyn.

Brooklyn has a population of 2.6MM and has just 2 significant performing arts venues. The Brooklyn Academy of Music and the PAC at Brooklyn College. There is room more much more.

Now that the Kings is on its way to recover, it is time to press Long Island Univertity on how it is going to restore The Brooklyn Paramount!

On the NY Times web site there is a small slide show. one of them shows a rendering of the renovated exterior. It shows the current boxy marquee removed and replaced with a marquee in the style of the beautiful original. Even better, it shows a Blade where the original "Loews" blade was. we can't make out what it says, but I doubt it will say Loew's. I wish it did. This is very exciting.

As wonderful as the restoration of the Loews Jersey has been, the icing on that cake would be the removal of its current hideous marquee with a recreation of the original + Blade which was similar in style to the Kings.

"Islands in the Stream" was the the last film to play under the Loew's banner. Somewhere among all of these posts I printed some information I found that the theatre was operated independantly for a short time on two different occasions.

In today's NYT article on this subject, someone is quoted as saying that had the Kings been situated in midtown Manhattan, it would never have been left to deteriorate and would have been returned to its past glory many years ago.

I think the reality is, had it been so located - and had it not been named Radio City Music Hall - the Kings would have faced the wrecking ball decades ago to make way for "progress".

So, being situated somewhat outside the center of things does have its benefits.

Agreed John! One need look no further than the fates of The Roxy, The Capitol, The Center, The Forum, The Paramount, The original Ziegfeld, The Hammerstein, The Olympia, and on and on.

The Loews Kings is most likely still with us because it is in Flatbush.

This is fantastic news. I hope to one day enter this gorgeous theater to see a movie with my family. I lived in Brooklyn throughout my childhood, but I was only 3 years old when it closed. I have been following it's decline and reliving the memories of others throughout the years and I am so delighted that this gem is going to shine again.

I have to agree that it's a miracle this theater has not faced a wrecking ball in the past 33 years, and make no mistake it is because of the undesirable location. Had the Kings been situated in Park Slope or another area that has been rejuvinated over the years, it would have been dust long ago.

I think that this is part of a growing trend that sees these old spaces as valued community assets and also as profitable business ventures. Check out the playing dates for United Palace, Loew's Paradise, St. George, the Wellmont in Montclair, the coming SI Paramount. And after the successful run of "Dreamgirls" at the Apollo, I wouldn't be surprised that some smart producer recognizes that there is no reason for the Theatre District to be limited to Times Square and the power players there, if they can get an audience to a good size space at lower rent elsewhere. Believe me, as much as the Broadway League wants to blame the working people of the the theatre for the high ticket cost, the bulk of the money goes into the pocket of the theatre owner, whom the producer can't afford to alienate.

This restoration adds yet another spectacular restored Movie Palace to New York. No other city (except perhaps Los Angeles) can rival the number and quality of these restored palaces. Radio City, The New Amsterdam, The Hollywood, The Beacon, Loew's 175th Street, The Ziegfeld, Loews Paradise, Loews Valencia, Loews Jersey, The Stanley (yes, I know the last 2 are in Jersey City but they are close enough), The Elmwood, Loews Metropolitan, The St. George. Loews Kings will take its place among the absolute best of restored palaces in the entire country if not the world.

Still to come.....Staten Island's Paramount, The Brooklyn Paramount and what I think will be the biggest surprise of all, Loews Canal!

Too bad the only one of the great theatres you mentioned (Loews Jersey) still screens films as part of their schedule.

Radio City still has an occassional film and the Ziegfeld (which I count as a movie palace) is still showing movies regularly.

Yes, I forgot to include The Apollo where I saw Dreamgirls in December! I loved it! Right down the street, The Victoria is just sitting there as well, though I have little hope for this theater.

It seems architects Martinez + Johnson have experience with historic opera houses and such: http://www.mjarchitecture.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=section.home&parentid=13&id=30

I hope this project comes to fruition.

Here's a link to the complete NY Times story--

At a Neglected Movie Palace, Cobwebs Are Given Notice (NYT 02/03/2010)

Dear Scott,
Just because you didn't know about it, doesn't mean that I was not involved in the most recent developments. However I considered confidentiality more important than tooting my own horn.

The best news of all is that Ace Theatricals has stated: 'We will recreate what it looks like when it was first put into use, we will be able to very accurately recreate what is no longer there and restore what is there." I never wanted to see this cathedral of the ornate multiplexed. I always wanted to see it return to it's roots as a live theater.

Bruce1

From all that I've read, this is still in the proposal stage and not a "done deal." It seems that most of the financial burden will be on the City of New York, which is supposed to provide $50 million in capital and another $15 million in tax credits. During the current financial crisis, when the City is pleading poverty and cutting public services left and right, how can it justify spending $50 million on something so comparatively trivial? I doubt if it will ever pass the City authorities that must approve it.

Because it is NOT trivial, even remotely comparatively. The city has been working for YEARS on getting this done. They did the same thing for the New Amsterdam and that was the catalyst that 42nd street needed. No one is comparing Flatbush Avenue to the Great White Way, however, the Kings IS comparable to the New Amsterdam architecturally and that is very high praise.

There is a built in audience for this type of venue. in a "city" of 2.6MM there is precious little in the way of performing arts spaces. No disrespect to BAM, but there is room for much more. This is an investment in the future of this city, like the 2nd Avenue Subway, the Brooklyn Bridge Park and Hudson and East River waterfronts, Hudson Yards, Atlantic Yards, Willets Point, etc. In these tough times....this is when you make these investments!

In addition, the article I read didn't delineate the timing of the $50 million in capital and $15 million in tax credits. The capital spend could be over 3-4 years, probably mostly in years 3 and 4 if we're talking 2014 as the opening. And the tax credits could also be spread over a number of years. In any event, there's no reason to think it's coming out of just one NYC budget year.

Lets hope it works this time and all the Loews Wonder Theatres will still be open in some way or another.

In response to the NYT article, a large number of comments were also posted. They are certainly worth a look and provide a healthy cross-section of opinion. I have linked these comments below. (If the link does not work, you can still access the comments, albeit less directly, via the previously provided link to the NYT article.)

Enjoy.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/crumbling-movie-palace-finds-an-angel/#respond

NY1 had a live report from the Loews Kings this morning, interviewing the head of the EDC. He said that the project is fully funded and that the company selected (ACE)has a solid record of restoring theaters, having recently completed one in Chicago and currently working on a resotration in New Orleans. They did not mention any names. They showed the same graphics that the NY Times did on their website; showing that the old marquee will be stripped away in favor of a new one styled on the original plus the resoration of a Blade though it was not clear what the blade would say. It also said up to 500 people will be employed during the restoration with 50 permanent employees after completion in 2013. Great news all around!

Now, how about the Loews Canal????? :-)

Can't find an official web site for ACE, based on a couple quick basic web searches. Anyone know how to look these guys up?

You never know with the editing but we taped much more this morning. I assume some of which will be combined with footage at my house that shows off a variety of artifacts and memorabilia that can be a part of a Loew's Kings Vaudeville/Movie Museum.

During today's visit I noticed that the magnificent drapery that hung above the proscenium was no longer there!

I certainly agree that the New Amsterdam was the catalyst that changed Times Square and Loew's Kings can do the same for Flatbush Avenue.

http://www.ny1.com/7-brooklyn-news-content/top_stories/

This is good news I hope that it all works out.Hope to see it after everything is done lets hopr that it doesnt take a long time.