Ziegfeld Theatre

No reason the NY National couldn’t have concealed the speakers the same way they were in the LA National.

“There was not a single US Cinerama installation prior to that in which the three booths were not placed on or just above the orchestra floor and visible.”

Yeah there was. The Eckel in Syracuse was adapted for Cinerama, and had “bubble booths” tucked into the rear corners of the walls at least 15 feet off the ground. I’ve been involved in a lot of Cinerama related research and I’ve been in several of the theatres. I have indeed been in theatres that were adapted for Cinerama, where the side booths were not conspicuous at all. I was in what some consider the ultimate CInerama venue, the Loew’s Capitol in NY, and saw no speakers on the walls, nor were the booths that noticeable. Sure you could spot them if you looked for them, but they did not intrude into, or alter, the very theatrical atmosphere of the theatre.

My point is that the booths are not technology themselves,they are part of the building, and they could blend into the decor of a theatre more than black boxy speakers hung all over a wall. Speakers can indeed be concealed and just as effective. Booths have to be there but can at least blend into the decor like any other part of the building. There is a difference between visible and conspicuous.

Now back to the topic of the Ziegfeld… It was indeed a modern theatre trying to evoke the feeling of a movie palace (there was even a coat check room) but it has a definitely theatrical atmosphere, where you could have all the advanced technology you want without it standing out from the decor.

And it is a very memorable venue mainly because IT IS theatrical, rather than a bland asymmetrical room with a bare screen and chunky speakers all over the walls. (they may have hung speakers in the Ziegfeld later on, but with some effort any new speakers could have been concealed as they were in the beginning, and in any event this theatre is SO theatrical that even the speakers hung on the wall, are just blemishes on a very theatrical theatre. When you think of a movie you saw at the Ziegfeld, you remember where you saw it, but who remembers they saw a movie at the ArcLight or Loew’s Village VII?

No reason for the technology to call attention to itself when it can be concealed. It detracts from the overall experience, like having no curtain. Those are just two of the many details that have degraded the moviegoing experience into nothing more than a forgettable bland room.

Instead of enhancing the experience with showmanship and theatrical atmosphere, today’s emphasis on showing off the hardware makes the movie experience utterly forgettable, with not much left to distinguish it from TV at home. Plex rooms are much like a bigscreen TV set, with a blank screen where the picture just pops on like a TV.

Only reason for speakers hanging on the walls is if the surround sound was added AFTER the theatre was already built. Even in later installations, the speakers can and have (in roadshow houses, for example) been concealed or made much less conspicuous than black boxes hanging all over the wall.

Like the cardboard red-green 3D glasses, Fantasound, Smell-o-Vision, MegaSound, “Quintophonic” sound and other gimmicks, Sensurround was brought in for one film at a time and not part of the permanent equipment. Later on, the newer Ziegfeld (built with concealed surrounds) was able to get the same sub bass vibrating effect with built-in invisible speakers (most memorably for the premiere run of Close Encounters, when Neary’s truck goes crazy). The effect was amazing, much better than Sensurround because it wasn’t a random loop of rumbling. The audience response was great.

Cinerama was handled in every way like a legit theatre event, and every effort was made to make the elements blend into the background. Three booths needn’t be any more intrusive than one is and I’ve been in many theatres where they were barely noticeable. They were part of the permanent setup and therefore as easy to cover as any other wall of the theatre.

The National theatre in LA did not have speakers on the wall when it opened. Check the original photos on the National page at CinemaSightlines.com. It was built for 70mm roadshows, among other things, and fully equipped for full surround without showing the hardware.

So the only reason for one’s sensibility not to mind technology replacing showmanship instead of enhancing it, is that one hasn’t had enough exposure to refined presentation to really miss it… which is a big reason why many people don’t like to go out to movies anymore. The experience isn’t grand enough to make patrons feel special (and behave better) and want to come back regardless of the film. Aside from a big screen, there isn’t much to draw us out.

IRV: Actually, I was impressed with the use of the surround channels on S N F. Not just for the disco numbers but for the ambient sound as well. The surrounds were active throughout! One of the better surround tracks. And the Ziegfeld did it justice. You didn’t catch the chirping birds, overheard discussions and subways rumbling up the walls??

CT’s description of the Ziegfeld is faulty on 3 points:

1) built near the Sixth Avenue (aka Ave of the Americas) location of the original Ziegfeld Theatre (a legit house). The current Ziegfeld is the second building in from the corner, the original was at the corner. Not really a few hundred feet away, actually just behind where the original stood.

2) a balcony is traditionally a section that OVERHANGS part of the main floor. This theatre has raised section BEHIND the rest of the seats. One could call it a Mezzanine I suppose, because that word doesn’t necessarily indicate an overhang. Back in the day, this (along with the Beekman, Sutton, Cinema I, etc.) was called “stadium style,” which then meant one section raised behind another.

3) the correct spelling for the name is Z I E G F E L D T H E A T R E. Ziegfeld is commonly misspelled as Zeigfeld, and classier theatrical and film venues were spelled Theatre. (note the sign on the building). The Americanized spelling – theater – used to seem more proletarian or less impressive. Still does, to a lot of us.

‘nope. It was at the Astor, which was the Ziegfeld’s rival at the time, and was owned by Loews until it was closed three years ago. It is now the Nokia Theater.’

That was a possibility I was thinking of. Not surprised. I have been to the Nokia a few times so far to see music. Last movie I saw there was a 70mm print of ‘2001: A Space Odyssey’ back in 2002-03 (?)

Was at the 7:30 show for SNF on Friday night. Not a bad turn out at the start of the last holiday weekend of the summer. I would say the place was between a quarter to half full give or take. Before the show there was a couple dressed in vintage disco garb that performed a dance similar to the one Tony and Stefanie perform during the contest. They even used the Tavares ‘More Than A Woman’ track to do their number to. It was fun and they were pretty good.

As for the film itself, I hadn’t seen this on the big screen since it came out in ‘77 when I was 10 years old. It was probably one of the first R-rated films my parents took me too. Quality at the Ziegfeld; sounded great. I was hoping for surround sound, but was that even part of the original releases? Did we have major surround sound back in '77? When I say 'surround sound’ I mean hearing it out of all of those side speakers in the theater, which I don’t think I heard, nonetheless it did sound great. As far as picture, I thought particularly in the first reel that the picture was a good 25% darker than it should have been. No fault of the Ziegfeld at all. I’m just wondering when the distributor is telling the theater to say this is a new print, where are they striking it from? Is it from the original negative they used back in the day, or is it from some 3rd or 4th generation internegative?

Anyway, it was great to be at the Ziegfeld again. I was also wondering, did SNF have it’s first run there?

The RIAA lists the Bodyguard with 17Million and SNF with 15 Million, respectively. These are figures through 3/8/06.

I’m sure Billboard will probably concur but its not worth $10 to be sure. :) I’m just saying that there have been many motion picture soundtracks that were best sellers way before Fever came out.

Justin, where on earth did you get the idea or notion that SNF was the first movie to have a best selling soundtrack? You need to project many years before you and I were born to know that your assertion is false. Haven’t you ever heard of such films/soundtracks such as West Side Story, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, heck even the original Star Wars soundtrack was a best seller cracking the Billboard top charts, too…all predating Fever. I bet the Wizard of Oz had a best selling soundtrack album as well way back in ‘39.

Star Wars is finished until Lucas bring them back in 3D Digital, with probably more tweaks and extras :)

The Saturday Night Fever DVD that I have has good use of the surround sound. It was the first disco movie to feature Dolby Stereo, and even though it was not 70mm like Grease, it was a low budget hit featuring what was the first movie to have a best selling soundtrack, a record which was overtook by The Bodyguard. SNF helped the Bee Gees become world wide pop stars, and John Travolta became one of the first true Jersey movie stars to become famous. Too bad the sequel and the Broadway remake didn’t do justice to this 70’s classic. BTW, when will new movies return to the Z? Usually the place is packed whenever a big new release comes out. Too bad there are no more Star Wars movies to fill those seats!!!

Last night’s “Saturday Night Fever” show featured some of the best uses of the surround channels I’ve ever heard at the Ziegfeld. All the songs sounded amazing. I was surprised by the small turnout, though – less than half the people that were there for “Grease” last October. Maybe everyone’s away for the Labor Day weekend?

The original 1959 ads for “Porgy and Bess” outside the Ziegfeld say “Produced in Todd-AO”. Whatever format they show it in, 35mm or 70mm, that’s got to be one of the rarest classic movie engagements we’ve had in New York for many years. We should all patronize it!

Formats 42-43

Above line should read “Many of the first run theatre have changed out the CP-200 for newer upgraded CP-500s & CP-650 for digital sound.”