Quote: As a resident of College Point throughout the late 1960’s and 1970’s, and as a student of fine art and art history, I would like to say that this is indeed one of the most tragic cases of New York City architecture neglect and waste I have witnessed.
I have to agree with you. The only other tragic waste of architecture I can think of that is even worse was the tragic destruction of the original Penn Station in 1964. THAT was a sin that such a phenominal building was destroyed. This is a close sin though.
Actually, I do believe that it’s Jericho Turnpike on one side of the street, and Jamaica Ave on the other side, as one side of the street is Queens, and the other is Nassau. The signs are even double signed on this stretch. I do believe that the Bellerose theater is on the Nassau side of the street, but the buildings on the other side are indeed in Queens.
Bellerose is as confusing as that whole “Ridgewood, Queens” and Ridgewood, Brooklyn scenario.
The LIRR owning the property next to the right of way of the curent M line, had to mean that the LIRR had to have something to do with the old steam RR that preceded the Brooklyn Rapid Transit company.
I mentioned this somewhere, but I forgot where. What is now the M train el was built in the 1800’s as a steam railroad. It was not an LIRR line. It is described as a “dummy steam railroad to the Lutheran cemetery” on old maps. A dummy steam engine was made in a way that would not frighten horses. It did indeed run on the ground. The stations were in the same places that they are now, at Seneca/Palmetto Sts, and at Forest/Putnam Aves. The Forest Ave was between Woodward Ave and Fairview Ave, just as it is now on the el. Eventually, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit Corp, took over the steam railroad, and connected it to the end of it’s Myrtle Ave El at Myrtle/Wyckoff Aves, and the line ran rapid transit cars. There was a ramp from the station at Wyckoff, that went down to ground level and the el trains ran off the el there, and ran on the ground to Metropolitan Ave station. The el was completed in 1914 or 1915, at which time the elevated trains ran on the el, and the old right of way on the ground was converted to trolley service (which lasted into the 50’s).
Bklyn, I agree. The Madison was definitely the superior theater, right from day one, however, Myrtle did get a bit seedy right around Myrtle-Wyckoff in the late 70’s. Even though it’s improved from the 70’s, the Ridgewood’s location is still superior to the Madison’s old location. While it’s great that one of them is still open, and they were both great theaters in their days, the Madison was definitely the superior quality theater. I always compare the theaters to the old Penn Station and Grand Central station in Manhattan. While Grand Central is a spectacular building (especially now that it’s renovated), Penn Station was the far superior and more spectacular of the two, and Penn Station should not have been demolished. If one had to be lost, and one survie, it should have been Penn Station (not that I’d want to see Grand Central gone). The same is true on a smaller scale of the Ridgewood and the Madison. The Madison should no have been the one to close.
But that leads us to reality. At least the Ridgewood putters on, no matter how much renovation it needs.
Obviously, this person is only posting here to try and get a rise out of people. This is consistent with the messages he has posted in other theaters too.
Hey Ast, maybe they can burn the Ridgewood down and put Sears in there in it’s place. I figured I’d post it before you do.
Jim, KMart bought Sears, however, “Sears” is the name of the new consolidated company.
Warren, I would assume your last scenario is probably what happened, although that is pure specualtion on my part. It could be that they did indeed buy the property to either convert it to a store, or assuming it would be demolished, and they would build a store there.
While the pieces fit, I can’t prove it.
The Ridgewood Folly was on a corner lot, with the cross street to the left, and another building to the right – just as this property. However, this happens exponentially all over the place, so while this won’t prove this is the site, it does prove it’s a contender.
Why I don’t actually think this is the case, is the fact the in the photo of the Ridgewood Folly I have seem, the building to the right of the Folly is a brick building (or appears to be). There is no building on the Grand View block or Woodward Ave. Under most circumstances, a brick building would not be torn down to replace it with a wood frame building, but anything is possible.
While I don’t know if arson was involved in the RKO Madison fire, or not, as you noted, the fire did not play a part in the closing of the Madison as a theater, because the Madison closed before the fire.
However, how does a fire start in an abandoned building? While if could always be electrical or “squaters” or tresspassers in the building; I wouldn’t rule out the “foul play” on the part of the owners at the time. People set fires for a variety of reasons: insurance, to “get rid” of the building being able to be used as a theater, etc, a tax write off, etc. of course this is purely speculation, I don’t actually know how the fire started, but obviously buildings don’t just go on fire for no reason.
The inside is too. Check out the links on this page. They meticulously restored the interior too. And unlike the valencia in Jamaica, they chose colors that are true to the originals. The Valencia’s new paint scheme is gaudy at best….however, it is maintained at least, so that is good.
Cool! They plugged the site here too in that article! I guess the Journal googled the Kimball and found this page.
Does anyone know of any photos of the theater either before or after the fire online somewhere?
Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.
Why do you say that? If you take Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, much of the neighborhood was already burnt to the ground or abandoned. Many of the old buildings still remaining, are now being refurbished.
To keep it on topic, just look at the RKO Bushwick theater, while it is not a theater anymore, they did all they could to preserve at least the outside of the building, and they did a fantastic job at it. The interior was destroyed through years of neglect anyway. They could have just demolished the whole building. This is the next best thing.
The RKO Bushwick (and it’s surrounding neighborhood) went from this to this because of the gentrification and rebuilding of the neighborhood. (The “this’s” are clickable).
Quote:
* and I’m shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.*
You are quite correct. Even Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant are currently undergoing gentrification. East New York is also no half as bad as it used to be. With even Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, and ENY on the way up, it’s a given that Flatbush will do nothing but improve.
Wow, this is pretty sad, I just heard about this fire, and figured I’d check out the theater’s site. Talk about on the scene reporting. Thanks to sals, cinematreasures has an “on the scene” account of this as it was hapening!
And, man, the cinematreausre guys are quick, the intro is already updated with this information!
Oh, and to add. I forgot to address the “how severe” was the fire. That someone else will have to answer. Of course it is a masonary building, so the exterior was completely undamaged. I assume there was lots of smoke damage, and off course that would mean that whatever remains of the ceiling and walls above the fake ceiling, is probably heavily sooted. I don’t know how severly the interior burned though.
While I don’t know the exact year, it was between 1977 and 1979. The fire occurred after the RKO Madison stopped showing movies, but before it was converted to a store. The fire occured when the building was unused. Around 1980, Consumers converted the building to a store. Originally, the public could only enter the store in the former lobby area, and maybe the area slightly under the balcony. Consumers was the type of store where you write down what you want on a form, after looking through catalogs, give it to a cashier, pay, and then they bring your item to you. It is safe to say that the merchandise was all stored in the large auditorium area of the theater, with it’s full ceiling exposed, in whatever condition it was in after the fire, after all the charred remains of the seats, etc were removed. About 2 or 3 years later, Consumers closed and, and Odd-Lot moved in. Once it was Odd lot, the barrier between the lobby area and the main theater were opened, and a false drop ceiling put up in the auditorium. Odd Lot took up more or less the same space as the Liberty Dept Store. I already remember seeing the outline of the balcony back then already.
Quote:
As a resident of College Point throughout the late 1960’s and 1970’s, and as a student of fine art and art history, I would like to say that this is indeed one of the most tragic cases of New York City architecture neglect and waste I have witnessed.
I have to agree with you. The only other tragic waste of architecture I can think of that is even worse was the tragic destruction of the original Penn Station in 1964. THAT was a sin that such a phenominal building was destroyed. This is a close sin though.
Actually, I do believe that it’s Jericho Turnpike on one side of the street, and Jamaica Ave on the other side, as one side of the street is Queens, and the other is Nassau. The signs are even double signed on this stretch. I do believe that the Bellerose theater is on the Nassau side of the street, but the buildings on the other side are indeed in Queens.
Bellerose is as confusing as that whole “Ridgewood, Queens” and Ridgewood, Brooklyn scenario.
The LIRR owning the property next to the right of way of the curent M line, had to mean that the LIRR had to have something to do with the old steam RR that preceded the Brooklyn Rapid Transit company.
I mentioned this somewhere, but I forgot where. What is now the M train el was built in the 1800’s as a steam railroad. It was not an LIRR line. It is described as a “dummy steam railroad to the Lutheran cemetery” on old maps. A dummy steam engine was made in a way that would not frighten horses. It did indeed run on the ground. The stations were in the same places that they are now, at Seneca/Palmetto Sts, and at Forest/Putnam Aves. The Forest Ave was between Woodward Ave and Fairview Ave, just as it is now on the el. Eventually, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit Corp, took over the steam railroad, and connected it to the end of it’s Myrtle Ave El at Myrtle/Wyckoff Aves, and the line ran rapid transit cars. There was a ramp from the station at Wyckoff, that went down to ground level and the el trains ran off the el there, and ran on the ground to Metropolitan Ave station. The el was completed in 1914 or 1915, at which time the elevated trains ran on the el, and the old right of way on the ground was converted to trolley service (which lasted into the 50’s).
Thanks! AN interior shot would be much appreciated!
That’s nice.
That’s nice.
Bklyn, I agree. The Madison was definitely the superior theater, right from day one, however, Myrtle did get a bit seedy right around Myrtle-Wyckoff in the late 70’s. Even though it’s improved from the 70’s, the Ridgewood’s location is still superior to the Madison’s old location. While it’s great that one of them is still open, and they were both great theaters in their days, the Madison was definitely the superior quality theater. I always compare the theaters to the old Penn Station and Grand Central station in Manhattan. While Grand Central is a spectacular building (especially now that it’s renovated), Penn Station was the far superior and more spectacular of the two, and Penn Station should not have been demolished. If one had to be lost, and one survie, it should have been Penn Station (not that I’d want to see Grand Central gone). The same is true on a smaller scale of the Ridgewood and the Madison. The Madison should no have been the one to close.
But that leads us to reality. At least the Ridgewood putters on, no matter how much renovation it needs.
Actually, I remember the Commack Multiplex Cinemas, also an NA house had a shootout in the lobby once.
Obviously, this person is only posting here to try and get a rise out of people. This is consistent with the messages he has posted in other theaters too.
Hey Ast, maybe they can burn the Ridgewood down and put Sears in there in it’s place. I figured I’d post it before you do.
That’s nice.
Jim, KMart bought Sears, however, “Sears” is the name of the new consolidated company.
Warren, I would assume your last scenario is probably what happened, although that is pure specualtion on my part. It could be that they did indeed buy the property to either convert it to a store, or assuming it would be demolished, and they would build a store there.
Thank you Robert. That’s just how I remember it the last time I was in it so long ago. I was wondering if they changed it at all.
While the pieces fit, I can’t prove it.
The Ridgewood Folly was on a corner lot, with the cross street to the left, and another building to the right – just as this property. However, this happens exponentially all over the place, so while this won’t prove this is the site, it does prove it’s a contender.
Why I don’t actually think this is the case, is the fact the in the photo of the Ridgewood Folly I have seem, the building to the right of the Folly is a brick building (or appears to be). There is no building on the Grand View block or Woodward Ave. Under most circumstances, a brick building would not be torn down to replace it with a wood frame building, but anything is possible.
While I don’t know if arson was involved in the RKO Madison fire, or not, as you noted, the fire did not play a part in the closing of the Madison as a theater, because the Madison closed before the fire.
However, how does a fire start in an abandoned building? While if could always be electrical or “squaters” or tresspassers in the building; I wouldn’t rule out the “foul play” on the part of the owners at the time. People set fires for a variety of reasons: insurance, to “get rid” of the building being able to be used as a theater, etc, a tax write off, etc. of course this is purely speculation, I don’t actually know how the fire started, but obviously buildings don’t just go on fire for no reason.
Is this the Slave Theater seen on this page about half way down?
View link
The inside is too. Check out the links on this page. They meticulously restored the interior too. And unlike the valencia in Jamaica, they chose colors that are true to the originals. The Valencia’s new paint scheme is gaudy at best….however, it is maintained at least, so that is good.
I think it’s great that he allowed the theater to keep it’s projection capabilities, unlike the Valencia in Jamaica.
Cool! They plugged the site here too in that article! I guess the Journal googled the Kimball and found this page.
Does anyone know of any photos of the theater either before or after the fire online somewhere?
Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.
Why do you say that? If you take Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, much of the neighborhood was already burnt to the ground or abandoned. Many of the old buildings still remaining, are now being refurbished.
To keep it on topic, just look at the RKO Bushwick theater, while it is not a theater anymore, they did all they could to preserve at least the outside of the building, and they did a fantastic job at it. The interior was destroyed through years of neglect anyway. They could have just demolished the whole building. This is the next best thing.
The RKO Bushwick (and it’s surrounding neighborhood) went from this to this because of the gentrification and rebuilding of the neighborhood. (The “this’s” are clickable).
Quote:
* and I’m shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.*
You are quite correct. Even Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant are currently undergoing gentrification. East New York is also no half as bad as it used to be. With even Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, and ENY on the way up, it’s a given that Flatbush will do nothing but improve.
Wow, this is pretty sad, I just heard about this fire, and figured I’d check out the theater’s site. Talk about on the scene reporting. Thanks to sals, cinematreasures has an “on the scene” account of this as it was hapening!
And, man, the cinematreausre guys are quick, the intro is already updated with this information!
Oh, and to add. I forgot to address the “how severe” was the fire. That someone else will have to answer. Of course it is a masonary building, so the exterior was completely undamaged. I assume there was lots of smoke damage, and off course that would mean that whatever remains of the ceiling and walls above the fake ceiling, is probably heavily sooted. I don’t know how severly the interior burned though.
While I don’t know the exact year, it was between 1977 and 1979. The fire occurred after the RKO Madison stopped showing movies, but before it was converted to a store. The fire occured when the building was unused. Around 1980, Consumers converted the building to a store. Originally, the public could only enter the store in the former lobby area, and maybe the area slightly under the balcony. Consumers was the type of store where you write down what you want on a form, after looking through catalogs, give it to a cashier, pay, and then they bring your item to you. It is safe to say that the merchandise was all stored in the large auditorium area of the theater, with it’s full ceiling exposed, in whatever condition it was in after the fire, after all the charred remains of the seats, etc were removed. About 2 or 3 years later, Consumers closed and, and Odd-Lot moved in. Once it was Odd lot, the barrier between the lobby area and the main theater were opened, and a false drop ceiling put up in the auditorium. Odd Lot took up more or less the same space as the Liberty Dept Store. I already remember seeing the outline of the balcony back then already.
Thanks. Unfortunately, it could be a new building (new being any building after the theater vacated). I guess I’ll have to drive by and see.