Jamal P. Savage writes: “This theater and the mall opened around 1987.”
While the mall seems in very good shape, this “theater” is in pretty tired shape. Took my children to see “Racing Stripes” here on Sunday 2/6. There were a lot of seats missing in the theater. About half way through the movie, my young son wanted to sit on my lap. I realized that the seats were the rocking kind and so I started to rock. Well, that was a big mistake. The rocking motion somehow loosened the bolts that held the seats to the floor. I realized that if we sat normally, the three seats we were in would move forward, kind of ejecting us. Not wanting to move them in the middle of the flick, I braced my legs on the floor and used my body to keep the seats upright! When we got up to leave, the three seats arched inwards. Since they were in the center of the aisle, it pulled the seats on the ends inwards also.
In addition, the screen image was off the screen by about a foot.
The place was basically clean but was in sorry need of a major overhaul.
I would assume, since there are no major theaters nearby, that this place might post some respectable numbers.
There are two very distinct shots of The Rivoli in the movie “My Favorite Year”. They both occur at the very beginning. It seems the film was shot on location because they show the kid walking right into Rockefeller Center and it does not look like a set. I know because I’m in there every day…
Since we’re kind of discussing RCMH oddities, I remember back in 1977 when I took the NBC tour which included a backstage tour of RCMH we were shown this odd “room” which overlooked the orchestra level of the auditorium. It was on the right hand side of the auditorium and was about (I’m guessing here) about twelve feet above the auditorium floor and was angled to see the stage though you could clearly see most of the auditorium from it. It was about ¾ down towards the stage. There was soundproof glass in the room and it was small (only fit about four people). The tour guide said that it was impossible to be seen in this room by anyone in the auditorium. I never understood what purpose this room served unless it was for VIP’s or for security.
I wonder if it’s still there. Does anyone else recall seeing or hearing of anything like this?
No. I had my two children with me. Believe me, I wanted to. The two theaters seem very accessible. My only issue with the Loews Jersey was that they had some kind of carnival like flags hanging from top of the theater down to the marquee. It looked so stupid against the classical architecture.
I saw the Loews and then saw the Stanley. I did a double take and was like “ooooooo, what’s that?!” The way they have the name, Stanley, in the marquee is remarkable. And the entrance seems to be completely intact with the box office right in the middle.
I wonder if the Rockefeller Center management has some kind of plans for the box office. Not that long ago, a MAJOR renovation was done to the concourse area. Strange that they would leave the box office there. Either it has some kind of structural element, it’s landmarked as part of RCMH or they have plans for it in the future…
I was in the Jersey City area on Sunday and went to Journal Square to see the much heralded Loews Jersey. Ok…yeah…it was very nice.
BUT…it pales to this sucker…at least from the outside and from what I’m reading here, it’s as beautiful inside as it is outside. What a smashing looking place!!
I was here back in (I think) 1993 to see the Macauley Culkin flick “The Good Son”. The theater was very nice and the auditorium I saw this at was fairly big. Not sure how it is now.
Upon it’s opening, there was a big deal made about it being Glen Cove’s first movie theater to open since the 60’s. There hadn’t been one in the city since the early 70’s. A strange kind of suburban/urban blight had hit Glen Cove in the 70’s rendering it’s downtown somewhat seedy (surprisingly for a LI North Shore community).
I’m not surprised, as longislandmovies notes, that the grosses were not very good. I think it’s a number of factors. First, Glen Cove is way off the beaten track on LI. Secondly, the areas surrounding the city are pretty wealthy and these people probably have home theaters that are grander than some of the multiplexes. It’s probably not a big movie going area.
Let me guess: they show those insipid ads on the white screen at The Ziegfeld? Is nothing sacred anymore?
One of the joys I remember as a kid was sitting in the movie theater and looking at the curtains and getting ready for the movie to start. Nothing was so thrilling (OK…there are and were but I was a kid) as the house lights dimming and the curtains slowly rising.
When I was kids during the 70’s, every single theater I went to, from the first run houses on LI to the very lowest of the 2nd and 3rd run houses had and used curtains.
Does the Ziegfeld always use the curtain? I saw “Braveheart” here in 1995 and they used the curtain. I loved it! The movie was OK but the theater, and that curtain, ROCKED.
Say what you will about The Ziegfeld but it’s as good as it gets these days, theater wise.
Ugh! None of the old ornamentation is left? What a disgrace. This place was one of LI’s true movie palaces. If I remember correctly, it was (and pardon me if my architectural phraseology is not up to snuff) done in a “Spanish” style. What a shame.
I will argue that if movie going audiences were given something worth looking at, they would go in droves. The studios know this but they look only at their bottom line. It’s a faster buck to produce dreck like the useless, pointless remake of “Assault on Precinct 13” knowing that the movie buying drones will scoop it up when it comes out on DVD.
Finally, someone has some great memories of The Fantasy prior to it’s multiplexing. Thanks john24fps!
Your memory of this place is well before mine but it’s great. Yes, I remember the recessed dome and it was still there until it’s closing. And the curtain I remember did open vertically in a crescent shape but the whole curtain was gold, not burgundy.
Sorry to hear that you miss these places. But your description of them, however adept and insightful, does not do too much to endear them in my consciousness.
February 1, 2005
Groups Vie to Reimagine Historic Theater in Harlem
By ROBIN POGREBIN
For years, the Loew’s Victoria Theater, a once-elegant vaudeville house and movie palace, has languished on West 125th Street in Harlem.
Just a few doors down from its famous neighbor the Apollo Theater, the Victoria went from being celebrated as one of the city’s largest and most beautiful theaters to failing as a five-screen multiplex that opened in 1987 and closed just two years later. Since then, the theater’s Ionic columns and terra-cotta rosettes have decayed and the stage has remained bare, except for occasional small theatrical productions or church services. The marquee recently advertised a lingerie sale across the street.
Now, seven teams of developers, hoteliers and cultural organizations are competing to reimagine the site as a major new entertainment-hotel-residential complex. New York State, which owns the property, is interviewing the applicants and expects to make a decision in March.
The Empire State Development Corporation, which is evaluating the proposals with the Harlem Community Development Corporation, its subsidiary, declined to identify the applicants or describe their proposals.
But documents obtained by The New York Times show that the state has narrowed the field to seven groups. Under terms set by the state, each team has enlisted an arts organization as part of its proposal, like the Bottom Line, the jazz club that recently closed in Greenwich Village; or the Jazz Museum in Harlem, which has yet to find a home. The development teams include hoteliers like Starwood and Ian Schrager; architects like Fox & Fowle, Davis Brody Bond and Lee Harris Pomeroy; and developers like Related Companies and Apollo Real Estate Advisers, which together built the Time Warner Center.
“This is a great opportunity for Harlem and more specifically for 125th Street as it inches toward becoming an even grander destination,” said Derek Q. Johnson, chairman of Integrated Holdings, which has partnered with Related.
But development projects involving historic buildings are often magnets for controversy, and the Victoria is no exception. While the theater has been deemed eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places, it is not a designated landmark – and the state is not requiring that the neo-Classical theater, with its ornate moldings and ceilings, be preserved.
“That is effectively a smack in the face to the community,” said City Councilman Bill Perkins, who represents parts of Harlem. “There is going to be a little bit of a fight on this, I can guarantee you.”
“That’s a historic theater, and we’d like to see proposals recognize that,” he continued. “The preservation issue is compatible with the development issue.”
At a meeting on Friday of the Harlem Community Development Corporation, the issue of preservation was addressed. While all of the proposals would involve retaining the facade, only two specify restoring some interior features. Michael Henry Adams, the Harlem historian and author of “Harlem: Lost and Found” (Monacelli Press, 2002), said he found this troubling. “Whatever happens, I would like it to incorporate the beautiful interiors of this historic Harlem theater,” he said.
In particular, Mr. Adams cited the elliptical anteroom on the second floor, the bas-relief decoration on the theater’s saucer dome ceiling, the long mirrored lobby and the theater’s gilded bronze and crystal chandeliers.
The 2,394-seat Victoria was designed in 1917 by Thomas W. Lamb, who built dozens of Loew’s theaters around the world and several Broadway houses. “It should not be allowed to be destroyed,” Mr. Adams said. “Were it restored, it would be one of the most distinguished theaters in New York.”
Over the last few years, Harlem has seen an explosion of commercial development, from a new Marriott Hotel to Harlem U.S.A., a retail center, both on 125th Street. Developers say there is still a demand for more hotel rooms as well for apartments to accommodate professionals. But some people who live and work in Harlem are concerned that the influx in large-scale development will compromise the neighborhood’s character and displace longtime residents.
Mr. Perkins argues that the Victoria development project – indeed, the overall influx of commercial building in Harlem – should not be mistaken for a larger revival. “These days, ‘renaissance’ is defined by real estate,” he said. “It’s not a term to describe an intellectual, cultural, educational rebirth.”
“What these people want us to do is be grateful that deals are being made,” he said. “The easy way out is to tear something down and put something up.”
Tensions are also brewing between the two agencies responsible for choosing a development plan for the site. Keith L. T. Wright, chairman of the Harlem Community Development Corporation, said his organization had been excluded from decision-making by the Empire State Development Corporation. “There has been no consultation whatsoever,” said Mr. Wright, also a state assemblyman whose district includes Harlem. “It’s plantationism at its best.”
“This is the last big development piece on 125th Street,” he said. “I just want to make sure some of my community groups are taken care of. They want a piece of the action.”
But Deborah Wetzel, a spokeswoman for the Empire State Development Corporation, said that the Harlem Community Development Corporation had been fully consulted. “We’ve been working very closely with them,” she said. “We’re assisting them every step of the way; they sit in on every meeting and their board has final approval.” The Harlem Urban Development Corporation, a precursor of the community development corporation, acquired the Apollo and the Victoria in the mid-1980’s to save them from conversion to nontheater use.
Two of the proposals feature the Jazz Museum, which was founded four years ago to present exhibitions and further jazz education.
The proposal submitted by the RD Management Corporation, a real estate investment and development company, calls the Jazz Museum “the jewel in the crown” of its $116 million multi-use development. The proposal plans to retain the theater’s façade with a new marquee and overall design by Fox & Fowle Architects.
Taking a page from the new Jazz at Lincoln Center building at Columbus Circle, which – in addition to its main stage – includes a jazz club and a theater with a glass wall overlooking Central Park South, the proposal calls for a “jazz cafe” on the second floor for small ensembles. A bandstand would be framed by a large window on the 125th Street side of the building.
Now that Jazz at Lincoln Center is open in the Time Warner Center, the proposal says, momentum has been created for a Harlem-based jazz institution “whose aesthetic will be informed by the sensibilities of the uptown community.”
RD Management’s submission also includes a 150-room hotel that would house a gallery for African-American art and a Harlem-themed restaurant. “For example,” the proposal says, “the menu might offer a Zora Neale Hurston salad, a Romare Bearden pasta, a Miles Davis omelette and a Denzel burger.”
The Jazz Museum would also be the cultural centerpiece of a $123 million proposal by Integrated Holdings and Related for a 150-room boutique hotel – with Inter-Continental as a possible operator – and 90 residential condominium units.
Apollo Real Estate Advisers, along with Starwood Hotels and Resorts Worldwide, has proposed a $103 million W Hotel with 156 rooms, 58 residential condominiums and 4,000 square feet of office space for the Apollo Theater Foundation. The Apollo Theater space would include rehearsal and education areas, a black box theater and an Apollo cafe. The architect on the project is Davis Brody Bond.
A proposal by the Victoria Tower Development suggests a $150 million B. B. King Entertainment Center with a jazz dinner club; an art gallery run by the Studio Museum in Harlem; and a five-star, 304-room hotel. The other groups in the running are Full Spectrum, which has proposed a $111 million complex including 78 luxury condominiums and two clubs – Victoria Small’s Paradise and 930 Blues Cafe with programming that reflects black and Latino culture.
Thor Equities, which specializes in urban real estate projects, proposes a $70 million complex, including boutiques like Armani Exchange, Club Monaco and Kay Jewelers; a revived Bottom Line club, possibly with a recording studio; and a 238-room hotel.
Danforth Development Partners proposes creating a $113 million new Savoy Ballroom with banquet space for 300 people, a 90-room hotel designed by Mr. Schrager and two new theaters for Harlem-based performing arts companies like Classical Theater of Harlem, Bill T. Jones Dance Group and the Harlem School of the Arts.
At the meeting on Friday, it was clear that several Harlem Community Development Corporation board members were worried that a treasured neighborhood landmark would be erased. One board member asked, “Can this theater be demolished?”
Diane P. Phillpotts, president of the corporation, replied that substantial changes to the building would require consultation with the New York State Historic Preservation Office.
“I understand the importance of preservation,” she said. “We also have to balance that against the economic development potential of the property.”
Regarding sam_e’s comment about doing away with The Nativity scene altogether, I’m surprised that they haven’t done so yet. From a PC point of view, it might be considered too Christian (why not call it the “Radio City Holiday Show”?). I’m joking here…
During this whole “discussion” last week about the narration that I did not like, I thought EXACTLY as Vincent did of the beautiful Charlie Brown Christmas show and how nicely the integrated the story of the Nativity into the show without beating it over your head. It’s graceful and, most importantly, subtle.
No one wants or needs to have ANY religon rammed down anyone’s throats. What people DO like and appreciate is a story, even if it’s religous, told in an intelligent and thoughtful way. THAT is what made the old Nativity so good. It didn’t force it’s message on you. It made you “feel” by it’s subtle, beautiful and unforced presentation. Less is more…
I think the producers of the current Christmas show must realize that the Nativity scene has the potential to turn off viewers. Notice that it’s now at the END of the show, not the beginning as it was before. I remember how the house lights would dim and that solemn, beautiful Nativity scene would begin.
Honestly, it was the highlight of the show. Yeah, the Rockettes were memorable but for me, after all these years (almost 30! Oye!) it’s the Nativity that stays with me.
We’re not bashing Christians at all. Read my posts above and I state that the original Christmans Nativity scene (back in the 70’s) was truly remarkable. What I object to (and I’m sorry if this sounds like Chrisitan bashing) was/is the rather over the top narrative that is scrolled at the end of the Christmas show.
The original Nativity was a model of craftmanship. It was a subtle gem. You didn’t have to be a Christian to be moved by it. As a kid, it brought tears to my eyes it was sooooooooooo goood. And I was a non religeous kid to boot.
I brought my daughter to see the show expecting her to experience the same thing. And what did I get? The equivilent of an amusement park show with an underwhelming Nativity scene AND an over the top narrative to wrap it up. She, even at 8 years old, commented on how out of place it was.
I not bashing Christians. I’m bashing the present Nativity and Christmas show.
I live right near Paterson and I drive into the city to look around.
I’m shocked at how people outside of the city depict it now. Honestly, it’s not that bad especially around the City Hall area. The East Side is getting to be very nice thanks to the influx of Gays who are renovating the HELL outta those fantastic old mansions there. And East Side Park gets better looking every year.
Paterson will be rediscovered. It’s a PRIME location. It’s got Route 80 just to it’s south (what’s good is that the interstate doesn’t cut through the heart of the city but close enough to make it convenient). Plus, it’s got a major rail line into NYC.
Add to that some truly unique and marvelous architectural elements including The Fabian. But I don’t think time is on the poor theater’s side. By the time Paterson starts to really regentrify, I believe The Fabian will be long gone. It’s sad but true.
Oh, GOD…I did NOT ask for a transcript! Why did I have to read that! Again! I was appalled that the Christmas show would do something like that. Why would they do that? The one I saw as a kid was so subtlety affecting that it was a marvel. I’ve never forgotten it.
The only thing I can think of is that it’s part of the roadshow version of this show. They play this Christmas show across the country and someone genius must’ve thought this would’ve been great in red states. By in NY? Oye.
There were plenty of movies that could’ve/should’ve opened at RCMH this year. “Lemony Snicket”, though mediocre, would’ve looked great up there and it’s essentially a family film. Christ, even “Meet the Fockers” would’ve been a huge sell out with Stiller’s following COUPLED with Streisand’s (the gay attendence would’ve kept it there for weeks).
I KNOW people my age are ready for a return to the BIG movie houses. Just look at how well the megaplexes are doing. Why? It’s not just the stadium seating but the LARGENESS of the auditoriums and the screens.
In college, in a film class, my great teacher got us all to see Garbo’s “A Woman of Affairs” in the college theater with a full stero track and all. The print was supberb. She did this every year to show students how rich and amazing the “silents” could be. Prior to this, I was only acquainted with that ridiculously cliched piano accompaniment to silents. The experience opened my eyes to how visually amazing they were. And how quite a theater could be.
I think you hit it on the head about the silent films. Seems strange to us know but I’m sure back then, who saw the need for sound? I don’t think anyone in Hollywood saw it coming. Thus, the cutout would be OK.
Jamal P. Savage writes: “This theater and the mall opened around 1987.”
While the mall seems in very good shape, this “theater” is in pretty tired shape. Took my children to see “Racing Stripes” here on Sunday 2/6. There were a lot of seats missing in the theater. About half way through the movie, my young son wanted to sit on my lap. I realized that the seats were the rocking kind and so I started to rock. Well, that was a big mistake. The rocking motion somehow loosened the bolts that held the seats to the floor. I realized that if we sat normally, the three seats we were in would move forward, kind of ejecting us. Not wanting to move them in the middle of the flick, I braced my legs on the floor and used my body to keep the seats upright! When we got up to leave, the three seats arched inwards. Since they were in the center of the aisle, it pulled the seats on the ends inwards also.
In addition, the screen image was off the screen by about a foot.
The place was basically clean but was in sorry need of a major overhaul.
I would assume, since there are no major theaters nearby, that this place might post some respectable numbers.
The popcorn was fresh though.
There are two very distinct shots of The Rivoli in the movie “My Favorite Year”. They both occur at the very beginning. It seems the film was shot on location because they show the kid walking right into Rockefeller Center and it does not look like a set. I know because I’m in there every day…
Since we’re kind of discussing RCMH oddities, I remember back in 1977 when I took the NBC tour which included a backstage tour of RCMH we were shown this odd “room” which overlooked the orchestra level of the auditorium. It was on the right hand side of the auditorium and was about (I’m guessing here) about twelve feet above the auditorium floor and was angled to see the stage though you could clearly see most of the auditorium from it. It was about ¾ down towards the stage. There was soundproof glass in the room and it was small (only fit about four people). The tour guide said that it was impossible to be seen in this room by anyone in the auditorium. I never understood what purpose this room served unless it was for VIP’s or for security.
I wonder if it’s still there. Does anyone else recall seeing or hearing of anything like this?
No. I had my two children with me. Believe me, I wanted to. The two theaters seem very accessible. My only issue with the Loews Jersey was that they had some kind of carnival like flags hanging from top of the theater down to the marquee. It looked so stupid against the classical architecture.
I saw the Loews and then saw the Stanley. I did a double take and was like “ooooooo, what’s that?!” The way they have the name, Stanley, in the marquee is remarkable. And the entrance seems to be completely intact with the box office right in the middle.
I wonder if the Rockefeller Center management has some kind of plans for the box office. Not that long ago, a MAJOR renovation was done to the concourse area. Strange that they would leave the box office there. Either it has some kind of structural element, it’s landmarked as part of RCMH or they have plans for it in the future…
I was in the Jersey City area on Sunday and went to Journal Square to see the much heralded Loews Jersey. Ok…yeah…it was very nice.
BUT…it pales to this sucker…at least from the outside and from what I’m reading here, it’s as beautiful inside as it is outside. What a smashing looking place!!
Kudos to all who lovingly restored it!
EvanC: What a cute looking theater! What kind of films did you screen there?
I was here back in (I think) 1993 to see the Macauley Culkin flick “The Good Son”. The theater was very nice and the auditorium I saw this at was fairly big. Not sure how it is now.
Upon it’s opening, there was a big deal made about it being Glen Cove’s first movie theater to open since the 60’s. There hadn’t been one in the city since the early 70’s. A strange kind of suburban/urban blight had hit Glen Cove in the 70’s rendering it’s downtown somewhat seedy (surprisingly for a LI North Shore community).
I’m not surprised, as longislandmovies notes, that the grosses were not very good. I think it’s a number of factors. First, Glen Cove is way off the beaten track on LI. Secondly, the areas surrounding the city are pretty wealthy and these people probably have home theaters that are grander than some of the multiplexes. It’s probably not a big movie going area.
Just my opinion…
Let me guess: they show those insipid ads on the white screen at The Ziegfeld? Is nothing sacred anymore?
One of the joys I remember as a kid was sitting in the movie theater and looking at the curtains and getting ready for the movie to start. Nothing was so thrilling (OK…there are and were but I was a kid) as the house lights dimming and the curtains slowly rising.
When I was kids during the 70’s, every single theater I went to, from the first run houses on LI to the very lowest of the 2nd and 3rd run houses had and used curtains.
This theater and it’s strip mall are way off the beaten track in a neighborhood that has seen better days.
Does the Ziegfeld always use the curtain? I saw “Braveheart” here in 1995 and they used the curtain. I loved it! The movie was OK but the theater, and that curtain, ROCKED.
Say what you will about The Ziegfeld but it’s as good as it gets these days, theater wise.
Ugh! None of the old ornamentation is left? What a disgrace. This place was one of LI’s true movie palaces. If I remember correctly, it was (and pardon me if my architectural phraseology is not up to snuff) done in a “Spanish” style. What a shame.
I will argue that if movie going audiences were given something worth looking at, they would go in droves. The studios know this but they look only at their bottom line. It’s a faster buck to produce dreck like the useless, pointless remake of “Assault on Precinct 13” knowing that the movie buying drones will scoop it up when it comes out on DVD.
Finally, someone has some great memories of The Fantasy prior to it’s multiplexing. Thanks john24fps!
Your memory of this place is well before mine but it’s great. Yes, I remember the recessed dome and it was still there until it’s closing. And the curtain I remember did open vertically in a crescent shape but the whole curtain was gold, not burgundy.
AEB, uh, gee…uh…thanks for your…input.
Sorry to hear that you miss these places. But your description of them, however adept and insightful, does not do too much to endear them in my consciousness.
This topic (Cinerama, Cinemascope, VistaVision, etc..) should have it’s own area on the website for discussion. It’s really fascinating.
Here’s a good website that gives a neat history of Cinemascope:
http://jkor.com/peter/scopehist.html
From today’s (February 1, 2005) New York Times:
February 1, 2005
Groups Vie to Reimagine Historic Theater in Harlem
By ROBIN POGREBIN
For years, the Loew’s Victoria Theater, a once-elegant vaudeville house and movie palace, has languished on West 125th Street in Harlem.
Just a few doors down from its famous neighbor the Apollo Theater, the Victoria went from being celebrated as one of the city’s largest and most beautiful theaters to failing as a five-screen multiplex that opened in 1987 and closed just two years later. Since then, the theater’s Ionic columns and terra-cotta rosettes have decayed and the stage has remained bare, except for occasional small theatrical productions or church services. The marquee recently advertised a lingerie sale across the street.
Now, seven teams of developers, hoteliers and cultural organizations are competing to reimagine the site as a major new entertainment-hotel-residential complex. New York State, which owns the property, is interviewing the applicants and expects to make a decision in March.
The Empire State Development Corporation, which is evaluating the proposals with the Harlem Community Development Corporation, its subsidiary, declined to identify the applicants or describe their proposals.
But documents obtained by The New York Times show that the state has narrowed the field to seven groups. Under terms set by the state, each team has enlisted an arts organization as part of its proposal, like the Bottom Line, the jazz club that recently closed in Greenwich Village; or the Jazz Museum in Harlem, which has yet to find a home. The development teams include hoteliers like Starwood and Ian Schrager; architects like Fox & Fowle, Davis Brody Bond and Lee Harris Pomeroy; and developers like Related Companies and Apollo Real Estate Advisers, which together built the Time Warner Center.
“This is a great opportunity for Harlem and more specifically for 125th Street as it inches toward becoming an even grander destination,” said Derek Q. Johnson, chairman of Integrated Holdings, which has partnered with Related.
But development projects involving historic buildings are often magnets for controversy, and the Victoria is no exception. While the theater has been deemed eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places, it is not a designated landmark – and the state is not requiring that the neo-Classical theater, with its ornate moldings and ceilings, be preserved.
“That is effectively a smack in the face to the community,” said City Councilman Bill Perkins, who represents parts of Harlem. “There is going to be a little bit of a fight on this, I can guarantee you.”
“That’s a historic theater, and we’d like to see proposals recognize that,” he continued. “The preservation issue is compatible with the development issue.”
At a meeting on Friday of the Harlem Community Development Corporation, the issue of preservation was addressed. While all of the proposals would involve retaining the facade, only two specify restoring some interior features. Michael Henry Adams, the Harlem historian and author of “Harlem: Lost and Found” (Monacelli Press, 2002), said he found this troubling. “Whatever happens, I would like it to incorporate the beautiful interiors of this historic Harlem theater,” he said.
In particular, Mr. Adams cited the elliptical anteroom on the second floor, the bas-relief decoration on the theater’s saucer dome ceiling, the long mirrored lobby and the theater’s gilded bronze and crystal chandeliers.
The 2,394-seat Victoria was designed in 1917 by Thomas W. Lamb, who built dozens of Loew’s theaters around the world and several Broadway houses. “It should not be allowed to be destroyed,” Mr. Adams said. “Were it restored, it would be one of the most distinguished theaters in New York.”
Over the last few years, Harlem has seen an explosion of commercial development, from a new Marriott Hotel to Harlem U.S.A., a retail center, both on 125th Street. Developers say there is still a demand for more hotel rooms as well for apartments to accommodate professionals. But some people who live and work in Harlem are concerned that the influx in large-scale development will compromise the neighborhood’s character and displace longtime residents.
Mr. Perkins argues that the Victoria development project – indeed, the overall influx of commercial building in Harlem – should not be mistaken for a larger revival. “These days, ‘renaissance’ is defined by real estate,” he said. “It’s not a term to describe an intellectual, cultural, educational rebirth.”
“What these people want us to do is be grateful that deals are being made,” he said. “The easy way out is to tear something down and put something up.”
Tensions are also brewing between the two agencies responsible for choosing a development plan for the site. Keith L. T. Wright, chairman of the Harlem Community Development Corporation, said his organization had been excluded from decision-making by the Empire State Development Corporation. “There has been no consultation whatsoever,” said Mr. Wright, also a state assemblyman whose district includes Harlem. “It’s plantationism at its best.”
“This is the last big development piece on 125th Street,” he said. “I just want to make sure some of my community groups are taken care of. They want a piece of the action.”
But Deborah Wetzel, a spokeswoman for the Empire State Development Corporation, said that the Harlem Community Development Corporation had been fully consulted. “We’ve been working very closely with them,” she said. “We’re assisting them every step of the way; they sit in on every meeting and their board has final approval.” The Harlem Urban Development Corporation, a precursor of the community development corporation, acquired the Apollo and the Victoria in the mid-1980’s to save them from conversion to nontheater use.
Two of the proposals feature the Jazz Museum, which was founded four years ago to present exhibitions and further jazz education.
The proposal submitted by the RD Management Corporation, a real estate investment and development company, calls the Jazz Museum “the jewel in the crown” of its $116 million multi-use development. The proposal plans to retain the theater’s façade with a new marquee and overall design by Fox & Fowle Architects.
Taking a page from the new Jazz at Lincoln Center building at Columbus Circle, which – in addition to its main stage – includes a jazz club and a theater with a glass wall overlooking Central Park South, the proposal calls for a “jazz cafe” on the second floor for small ensembles. A bandstand would be framed by a large window on the 125th Street side of the building.
Now that Jazz at Lincoln Center is open in the Time Warner Center, the proposal says, momentum has been created for a Harlem-based jazz institution “whose aesthetic will be informed by the sensibilities of the uptown community.”
RD Management’s submission also includes a 150-room hotel that would house a gallery for African-American art and a Harlem-themed restaurant. “For example,” the proposal says, “the menu might offer a Zora Neale Hurston salad, a Romare Bearden pasta, a Miles Davis omelette and a Denzel burger.”
The Jazz Museum would also be the cultural centerpiece of a $123 million proposal by Integrated Holdings and Related for a 150-room boutique hotel – with Inter-Continental as a possible operator – and 90 residential condominium units.
Apollo Real Estate Advisers, along with Starwood Hotels and Resorts Worldwide, has proposed a $103 million W Hotel with 156 rooms, 58 residential condominiums and 4,000 square feet of office space for the Apollo Theater Foundation. The Apollo Theater space would include rehearsal and education areas, a black box theater and an Apollo cafe. The architect on the project is Davis Brody Bond.
A proposal by the Victoria Tower Development suggests a $150 million B. B. King Entertainment Center with a jazz dinner club; an art gallery run by the Studio Museum in Harlem; and a five-star, 304-room hotel. The other groups in the running are Full Spectrum, which has proposed a $111 million complex including 78 luxury condominiums and two clubs – Victoria Small’s Paradise and 930 Blues Cafe with programming that reflects black and Latino culture.
Thor Equities, which specializes in urban real estate projects, proposes a $70 million complex, including boutiques like Armani Exchange, Club Monaco and Kay Jewelers; a revived Bottom Line club, possibly with a recording studio; and a 238-room hotel.
Danforth Development Partners proposes creating a $113 million new Savoy Ballroom with banquet space for 300 people, a 90-room hotel designed by Mr. Schrager and two new theaters for Harlem-based performing arts companies like Classical Theater of Harlem, Bill T. Jones Dance Group and the Harlem School of the Arts.
At the meeting on Friday, it was clear that several Harlem Community Development Corporation board members were worried that a treasured neighborhood landmark would be erased. One board member asked, “Can this theater be demolished?”
Diane P. Phillpotts, president of the corporation, replied that substantial changes to the building would require consultation with the New York State Historic Preservation Office.
“I understand the importance of preservation,” she said. “We also have to balance that against the economic development potential of the property.”
Regarding sam_e’s comment about doing away with The Nativity scene altogether, I’m surprised that they haven’t done so yet. From a PC point of view, it might be considered too Christian (why not call it the “Radio City Holiday Show”?). I’m joking here…
During this whole “discussion” last week about the narration that I did not like, I thought EXACTLY as Vincent did of the beautiful Charlie Brown Christmas show and how nicely the integrated the story of the Nativity into the show without beating it over your head. It’s graceful and, most importantly, subtle.
No one wants or needs to have ANY religon rammed down anyone’s throats. What people DO like and appreciate is a story, even if it’s religous, told in an intelligent and thoughtful way. THAT is what made the old Nativity so good. It didn’t force it’s message on you. It made you “feel” by it’s subtle, beautiful and unforced presentation. Less is more…
Well, it was not in the Christmas shows that I saw in the 70’s.
I think the producers of the current Christmas show must realize that the Nativity scene has the potential to turn off viewers. Notice that it’s now at the END of the show, not the beginning as it was before. I remember how the house lights would dim and that solemn, beautiful Nativity scene would begin.
Honestly, it was the highlight of the show. Yeah, the Rockettes were memorable but for me, after all these years (almost 30! Oye!) it’s the Nativity that stays with me.
We’re not bashing Christians at all. Read my posts above and I state that the original Christmans Nativity scene (back in the 70’s) was truly remarkable. What I object to (and I’m sorry if this sounds like Chrisitan bashing) was/is the rather over the top narrative that is scrolled at the end of the Christmas show.
The original Nativity was a model of craftmanship. It was a subtle gem. You didn’t have to be a Christian to be moved by it. As a kid, it brought tears to my eyes it was sooooooooooo goood. And I was a non religeous kid to boot.
I brought my daughter to see the show expecting her to experience the same thing. And what did I get? The equivilent of an amusement park show with an underwhelming Nativity scene AND an over the top narrative to wrap it up. She, even at 8 years old, commented on how out of place it was.
I not bashing Christians. I’m bashing the present Nativity and Christmas show.
I live right near Paterson and I drive into the city to look around.
I’m shocked at how people outside of the city depict it now. Honestly, it’s not that bad especially around the City Hall area. The East Side is getting to be very nice thanks to the influx of Gays who are renovating the HELL outta those fantastic old mansions there. And East Side Park gets better looking every year.
Paterson will be rediscovered. It’s a PRIME location. It’s got Route 80 just to it’s south (what’s good is that the interstate doesn’t cut through the heart of the city but close enough to make it convenient). Plus, it’s got a major rail line into NYC.
Add to that some truly unique and marvelous architectural elements including The Fabian. But I don’t think time is on the poor theater’s side. By the time Paterson starts to really regentrify, I believe The Fabian will be long gone. It’s sad but true.
Oh, GOD…I did NOT ask for a transcript! Why did I have to read that! Again! I was appalled that the Christmas show would do something like that. Why would they do that? The one I saw as a kid was so subtlety affecting that it was a marvel. I’ve never forgotten it.
The only thing I can think of is that it’s part of the roadshow version of this show. They play this Christmas show across the country and someone genius must’ve thought this would’ve been great in red states. By in NY? Oye.
There were plenty of movies that could’ve/should’ve opened at RCMH this year. “Lemony Snicket”, though mediocre, would’ve looked great up there and it’s essentially a family film. Christ, even “Meet the Fockers” would’ve been a huge sell out with Stiller’s following COUPLED with Streisand’s (the gay attendence would’ve kept it there for weeks).
I KNOW people my age are ready for a return to the BIG movie houses. Just look at how well the megaplexes are doing. Why? It’s not just the stadium seating but the LARGENESS of the auditoriums and the screens.
In college, in a film class, my great teacher got us all to see Garbo’s “A Woman of Affairs” in the college theater with a full stero track and all. The print was supberb. She did this every year to show students how rich and amazing the “silents” could be. Prior to this, I was only acquainted with that ridiculously cliched piano accompaniment to silents. The experience opened my eyes to how visually amazing they were. And how quite a theater could be.
I think you hit it on the head about the silent films. Seems strange to us know but I’m sure back then, who saw the need for sound? I don’t think anyone in Hollywood saw it coming. Thus, the cutout would be OK.
AND, yes, people would’ve been quieter as well.