Gteat stuff Michael. I know I can always count on you to keep the memories of Cinerama and 70mm fresh in our minds and hearts.
I have written may posts of what fun and how magnificent it was to be projectionist during those exciting times in the movies.
It is always a great thrilll to revisit those days through your wittings.
Thanks Al, that’s the way I remember it.
The theatre in MSG most definatly opened while the movie house was still running. In addition it was, as Luis wrote,in Columbus Circle and not on the east side as I originaly suggested.
Warren thr name WaMu is so ridiculas. I recall when the theatre first opened it was called the Paramount, but complaints from the owners of the Paramount theatre on the east side wanted it changed. It then became the Theatre at Madison Square Garden and then this sily new name. Since we no longer have a Paramount in NY perhaps they should just go back to the original name.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh my God, can we please let this go already!
The theatre is dead, gone, finito.
For heavens sake can we please give where it was located a rest.
Everytime I see a post has been made here I look forward to reading it, only to find out it is just another where was it located post.
I loved working there and missed it dearly, To anyone reading this who may have workd the house the same time I did during the 70s,
I miss you guys as well. Especialy the head usher who always made sure i had fresh coffee and tricked me into thinking we were going to start to play all the Fox product exclusively.
I agree movies are here to stay as are the theatres to show them in. For as far back as I can remember we have been told the gloom and doom stories for movies and theatres. Not even the depression stopped folks from going to the movies, and then there ws televison, which was supposed to kill movies, remember STOP PAY TV?.Then came cable,video tape and DVD. It goes on and on, but nothing will ever stop people from going to the theatres, they need to get out if the house to see movies, especially the younger generation. Summer ‘08 saw the biggest motion picture revenues in history with a whopping 4.2 billion in box-office sales.
No my friends the movies and motion picture theatres ain’t goin anywhere.
My pleasure.
I loved the Royal with its garden entrance and large orchestra seating area. The presidium hosted two curtains, a Royal Blue traveler curtain and a Gold Contour curtain.
I had the unpleasant responsibility of dismantling the theatre when it was closed, a very sad experience,
I remember thinking I hope never to have to do that again to another theatre. I had driven Royal theatres CEO Herman Rosen to the theatre the last night it was open for one last look. He hated closing it, but he had sold the company and we began downsizing, starting with closing the home office and then the Royal and Sunset Drive in. Consolidated took over the Marina and ran it for a while before selling to a steak house operation.
The Kuhio had a rather plan auditorium with no draperies or screen curtains.
The photos are of the Royal theatre located on Kuhio Ave.
The theatre was built and operated by Royal Development company and was closed and demolished in 1982. I do not recall the theatre being called the Royal Hawaiian Kuhio.
The Kuhio was of course the single screen theatre operated by Consolidated theatres and later twinned.
Very exciting news, but I agree the article did not give much information. More news to come I hope. Perhaps it is time for one our crack Brookyn CT reporters to go to the theatre and snoop around for more ino.:)
Thank you Michael and to all who have responded to my question.
I have registered to join the Showmanship group and look forward to participatingin it.
Hearing of the demise of basically all reel-to-reel projection sadens me, however it'a a new world. To think, back in my day
we had as many as three projectors (and a few with four)in the booth We also had two projectionists on duty for 70mm,3-D,and studio previews and as many as 5 with Cinerama.
My, my how times have changed. I suppose the Dome and Arklight utilise one man two run both buildings. Thats how it was in Hawaii at Waikiki 1-2-3 after I retired.
Thanks you JSA, I sure would love an update on what’s going on in the booth at the Dome. Am I to understand that South Pacific
will be/has been shown at the Dome Digial and not 70mm? That would be a shame cause I am sure most of the folks going to that screening would prefer to see the film in 70mm.
Forgive an old man but I am confused, does the original Dome not run reel-to-reel anymore? I understand the reasons for platters at the Arclight but does the original Dome run on a platter? please say it isn’t so
Sorry Rory I did not spend much time in the lab. I worked for Fox which, as Jeff pointed out, is where all the prints were made.
Both color and black and white prints were made there.
I did go down there on many ocasions having made a lot of friends who worked in the lab. I watched color timing done, negitive cutting and the sound recording room where the magnetic tracks were sounded on to the prints at high speed. I remember several small closet like screening rooms where every reel had to be run to test for quality and then have an ok sticker placed on the print. I recall thinking what a boring job that was running the same movie over and over all day long. Often just the same reel of a movie.
I later came to appreciate the problems with most Eastman stock prints and the problems with fading. Many studios used Eastman stock Deluxe, Warnercolor, Metrocolor etc. But they all used different bathes or washes making the color unigue from one another. All of them had the same problems with color fading. As Jeff said you really are hard pressed to find any prints from back then that are not faded to red or purple. Perhaps the original negatives did not receive the care they neeed. Only Technicolor which is an original positive instead of a negative has held up over the years.
Sorry to bore some of and take up space on the Ziegfeld page but I thought perhaps some of you would be interested
To anyone from Eastman Kodak, or anyone with contacts there,
I have a thought.
With the demise of 70mm, even to include IMAX, which will be going Digital soon, why not offer your entire 70mm raw stock inventory to the studios at a discount, perhaps at the cost of a 35mm print, allowing them to strike new prints of some of the classic and yes even not so classic movies for all of us to enjoy. During the 50s and 60s only a handful of 70mm prints where made for each title, leaving us with a small inventory to work with today. As a result the remaing prints are protected and guarded which limits the venues allowed to show them. Eastman Kodak should work with the studios to make the raw stock affordable in order to increase our 70mm inventories before it is too late; I believe history demands it.
While I have no idea how much raw stock Kodak may have lying around, it seems to me it would be better to sell it all off at the cheap instead of what will inevitable be old and expired stock that will have to be destroyed. This solution would generate a little money for Kodak but more importantly allow the studios to make the prints available fr storage and use for years to come and satisfy those of us who are starving for them.
I worked at Fox in the 50s and Deluxe labs was in the same building, I seem to recall a large inventory of raw stock was always kept on hand. Perhaps today the stock is only made when demand calls for it but surely there must be some 70mm raw stock sitting in storage with no where to go but the scrap heap. Let’s put it to good use before it expires.
I would also hope that the Ziegfeld and Radio City, which are two of the theatres that I know of left in NY that can still run 70mm
reel-to-reel, (there may be more) will keep that equipment maintained. In this Digital age where film itself may soon disapear, I would hope we can hang on to what we have left of 70mm for future generations to enjoy.
Excuse me ALAvarez, but Warren was simply trying to set the record straight and not start an argument. If another member of this wonderful web site has information regarding the accuracy of a post they owe it all of us to clarify. Futhermore the original poster needs to be greatful for the correction and say, sorry I was misunderstood or thanks for the correction. Warren, in particular, has a wealth of information to share with us and we need to be respectful of that.
I have made a few errors some of my informational post,and I am always greatful for any corrections of the facts.
Everyone take a deep breath and relax. We are here to have fun, become informed and share war stories of the good days of the movie palace. Just the 2 cents of an old man :)
Thank you Rob for that that great info on the fire curtain. I found it fasinating. My goodness, let’s just hope those hydraulic cylinders never fail.
How marvelous it would be to just wollow in all that old 16mm footage. Talk about a treasure cove.
I wouild like to add my good luck wishes. I think what you would like to do would be marvelous. As Peter wrote, expect litle in return, but the fact that you will have helped keep the classics on the big screen will be much appreciated by many.
Be sure to have two projectors in the booth to run reel-to-reel.
Not only is it the proper way to present tne films but you will have a much better chance of getting prints. Many of the folks suppling the prints will not allow you to run the classics on a platter.
Please keep us informed.
Lovely story David.
I guess what I am trying to say is I enjoyed the technical aspects of the shows as much as the performances on stage.
One could see a terrific show at the Roxy as well, but the Music Hall was always in a class of it’s own.
Other theatres like the Capital and Paramount had mostly big bands along with the popular singers and performers of the time, but I don’t recall any thing as spectacular as the shows at the Roxy and RCMH. Of course we also had the Palace with those rather silly vaudeville shows. Sort of a of an Ed Sullivan show accompined by a movie.
I enjoyed seeing the great stage last night as well, although I would have prefered they had used the entire stage. The performers were limited to only a small area to work with. Perhaps the idea was to make it easier for the people doing segments of actual Broadway shows a more comfortable or familiar stage size to work on, and to allow the sets from the B'way shows fit proprerly and not appear lost of that great stage.
The LED screens have their place and are here to stay but too miss the scenery.
I know I heard a live orchestra but where were they hiding?
Does anyone of out insiders have any behind the scenes info on what is going on for tonight Tony broadcast?
To answer the question posed about the many shows I have attended at the Hall. I started going regularly in the early 50s until leaving NY in 1972. I believe I saw every show during that time frame which computes to about 20 years at about 9-10 shows a year making it somewhere in the range of 175-200 movies and stage shows.
I don’t remember ever going back to see any one show a second time and to pick a favorite would be difficult. As I have mentioned before, the shows in those days always changed on a Thursday and we would arrive at about 6pm in time to beat the price change and sit as close to the stage as possible for the stage show. My favorite seat was the one directly behind the control booth. After seeing the first stage show we rushed up to the 3rd mezzanine to sit directly under the booth for the movie. Then often we would return to the orchestra level to watch the stage show a second time. We would spend about four hours at the hall
For me the best part of any show, after the Rockettes and ballet, was the orchestra. I loved hearing the musicians tuning up as the pit rised up to stage level. For those who remember the orchestra could be heard tuning up as part of the start of the show. Sometimes we would get an extra treat and watch the orchestra rise to stage level and then roll to the back of the stage, this would usually lead to the Rockettes coming up on the stage elevator vacated by the orchestra. That was fun.
The wonderful steam curtain (do they ever use that anymore) was exciting, the entire front of the stage would fill with a curtain of steam with a marvelous rushing sound, just breathtaking.
So for me it was not so much the quality of the stage show but the technical aspects I found fascinating, and of course, the marvelous orchestra and organ.
I recall once, when we saw the last showing of the movie, there was this huge thing that began to descend upon the stage. It lowered and then rose up again. Well, I had to know what the heck that was and asked a manager as we were leaving to explain. I learned it was the stage fire curtain which they were required by the fire department to test at the end of every day.
So favorite movie or stage show? Hard to say, but favorite thing to go to see in New York was the new show at Radio city. The Roxy shows were grand to be sure as was the Paramount, but entertainment nothing beat the experience of going to Radio City Music Hall.
I also reall expecting more of a third dimension effect as implied by the advertising. I think all of course in all I was more impressed with Cinerama and 3-D.
One would have to consider the fact that the Roxy was the first to show CinemaScope, therefore never having seen a movie screen of that size in other than special venues, I believe the effect was more impressive. By the time RCMH installed Scope we had already gotten used to the idea having experienced it in many other theatres. I saw “The Robe” there but honestly do no recall if the curve made that much of an impression on me. Funny thing is I was more impressed with the stereophonic sound, in particular the rich music in a movie theatre and the wonderful thunder and lightning crashes in the surround track.
Thanks Claude, I am happy to hear Faith is doing well, she got a bad break with Consolidated and deserved more. She was one of my favotite people, I can still hear that wonderful infectious laugh of hers. I hope to see her on the boards here, she should have a few good war stories to tell about her days as a manager and operations exec.
Posts from REndres, oldjoe and RCDTJ sure has taught us a lot about how the Hall works. it sure must be a fasinating place to work.
I did not appreciate how big an operation it really is.
All of that inside behind the operation information is absolutly fasinating. Once again, thanks to all of you for sharing.
Rendres, thanks for that info.
I assumed it would be a very complicated and expensive undertaking to rent the Hall. I never realised one could rent just the lobby space, or as New Line seems to have done, just the orchestra sections. I understand it all a bit better now.
Was any consideration ever given to renting out one or both of the old screening rooms? I should think that would be popular for exibitor screenings, in addition to giving the booth guys a bit more work.
Any more info would be very interesting to be sure. Thanks again
Gteat stuff Michael. I know I can always count on you to keep the memories of Cinerama and 70mm fresh in our minds and hearts.
I have written may posts of what fun and how magnificent it was to be projectionist during those exciting times in the movies.
It is always a great thrilll to revisit those days through your wittings.
Thanks Al, that’s the way I remember it.
The theatre in MSG most definatly opened while the movie house was still running. In addition it was, as Luis wrote,in Columbus Circle and not on the east side as I originaly suggested.
Warren thr name WaMu is so ridiculas. I recall when the theatre first opened it was called the Paramount, but complaints from the owners of the Paramount theatre on the east side wanted it changed. It then became the Theatre at Madison Square Garden and then this sily new name. Since we no longer have a Paramount in NY perhaps they should just go back to the original name.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh my God, can we please let this go already!
The theatre is dead, gone, finito.
For heavens sake can we please give where it was located a rest.
Everytime I see a post has been made here I look forward to reading it, only to find out it is just another where was it located post.
I loved working there and missed it dearly, To anyone reading this who may have workd the house the same time I did during the 70s,
I miss you guys as well. Especialy the head usher who always made sure i had fresh coffee and tricked me into thinking we were going to start to play all the Fox product exclusively.
I agree movies are here to stay as are the theatres to show them in. For as far back as I can remember we have been told the gloom and doom stories for movies and theatres. Not even the depression stopped folks from going to the movies, and then there ws televison, which was supposed to kill movies, remember STOP PAY TV?.Then came cable,video tape and DVD. It goes on and on, but nothing will ever stop people from going to the theatres, they need to get out if the house to see movies, especially the younger generation. Summer ‘08 saw the biggest motion picture revenues in history with a whopping 4.2 billion in box-office sales.
No my friends the movies and motion picture theatres ain’t goin anywhere.
My pleasure.
I loved the Royal with its garden entrance and large orchestra seating area. The presidium hosted two curtains, a Royal Blue traveler curtain and a Gold Contour curtain.
I had the unpleasant responsibility of dismantling the theatre when it was closed, a very sad experience,
I remember thinking I hope never to have to do that again to another theatre. I had driven Royal theatres CEO Herman Rosen to the theatre the last night it was open for one last look. He hated closing it, but he had sold the company and we began downsizing, starting with closing the home office and then the Royal and Sunset Drive in. Consolidated took over the Marina and ran it for a while before selling to a steak house operation.
The Kuhio had a rather plan auditorium with no draperies or screen curtains.
The photos are of the Royal theatre located on Kuhio Ave.
The theatre was built and operated by Royal Development company and was closed and demolished in 1982. I do not recall the theatre being called the Royal Hawaiian Kuhio.
The Kuhio was of course the single screen theatre operated by Consolidated theatres and later twinned.
Atco Multiplex in Cherry Hill New Jersey will also close next week
Very exciting news, but I agree the article did not give much information. More news to come I hope. Perhaps it is time for one our crack Brookyn CT reporters to go to the theatre and snoop around for more ino.:)
Thank you Michael and to all who have responded to my question.
I have registered to join the Showmanship group and look forward to participatingin it.
Hearing of the demise of basically all reel-to-reel projection sadens me, however it'a a new world. To think, back in my day
we had as many as three projectors (and a few with four)in the booth We also had two projectionists on duty for 70mm,3-D,and studio previews and as many as 5 with Cinerama.
My, my how times have changed. I suppose the Dome and Arklight utilise one man two run both buildings. Thats how it was in Hawaii at Waikiki 1-2-3 after I retired.
Thanks you JSA, I sure would love an update on what’s going on in the booth at the Dome. Am I to understand that South Pacific
will be/has been shown at the Dome Digial and not 70mm? That would be a shame cause I am sure most of the folks going to that screening would prefer to see the film in 70mm.
Forgive an old man but I am confused, does the original Dome not run reel-to-reel anymore? I understand the reasons for platters at the Arclight but does the original Dome run on a platter? please say it isn’t so
Excellent post Jeff thsnks!
Sorry Rory I did not spend much time in the lab. I worked for Fox which, as Jeff pointed out, is where all the prints were made.
Both color and black and white prints were made there.
I did go down there on many ocasions having made a lot of friends who worked in the lab. I watched color timing done, negitive cutting and the sound recording room where the magnetic tracks were sounded on to the prints at high speed. I remember several small closet like screening rooms where every reel had to be run to test for quality and then have an ok sticker placed on the print. I recall thinking what a boring job that was running the same movie over and over all day long. Often just the same reel of a movie.
I later came to appreciate the problems with most Eastman stock prints and the problems with fading. Many studios used Eastman stock Deluxe, Warnercolor, Metrocolor etc. But they all used different bathes or washes making the color unigue from one another. All of them had the same problems with color fading. As Jeff said you really are hard pressed to find any prints from back then that are not faded to red or purple. Perhaps the original negatives did not receive the care they neeed. Only Technicolor which is an original positive instead of a negative has held up over the years.
Sorry to bore some of and take up space on the Ziegfeld page but I thought perhaps some of you would be interested
To anyone from Eastman Kodak, or anyone with contacts there,
I have a thought.
With the demise of 70mm, even to include IMAX, which will be going Digital soon, why not offer your entire 70mm raw stock inventory to the studios at a discount, perhaps at the cost of a 35mm print, allowing them to strike new prints of some of the classic and yes even not so classic movies for all of us to enjoy. During the 50s and 60s only a handful of 70mm prints where made for each title, leaving us with a small inventory to work with today. As a result the remaing prints are protected and guarded which limits the venues allowed to show them. Eastman Kodak should work with the studios to make the raw stock affordable in order to increase our 70mm inventories before it is too late; I believe history demands it.
While I have no idea how much raw stock Kodak may have lying around, it seems to me it would be better to sell it all off at the cheap instead of what will inevitable be old and expired stock that will have to be destroyed. This solution would generate a little money for Kodak but more importantly allow the studios to make the prints available fr storage and use for years to come and satisfy those of us who are starving for them.
I worked at Fox in the 50s and Deluxe labs was in the same building, I seem to recall a large inventory of raw stock was always kept on hand. Perhaps today the stock is only made when demand calls for it but surely there must be some 70mm raw stock sitting in storage with no where to go but the scrap heap. Let’s put it to good use before it expires.
I would also hope that the Ziegfeld and Radio City, which are two of the theatres that I know of left in NY that can still run 70mm
reel-to-reel, (there may be more) will keep that equipment maintained. In this Digital age where film itself may soon disapear, I would hope we can hang on to what we have left of 70mm for future generations to enjoy.
Excuse me ALAvarez, but Warren was simply trying to set the record straight and not start an argument. If another member of this wonderful web site has information regarding the accuracy of a post they owe it all of us to clarify. Futhermore the original poster needs to be greatful for the correction and say, sorry I was misunderstood or thanks for the correction. Warren, in particular, has a wealth of information to share with us and we need to be respectful of that.
I have made a few errors some of my informational post,and I am always greatful for any corrections of the facts.
Everyone take a deep breath and relax. We are here to have fun, become informed and share war stories of the good days of the movie palace. Just the 2 cents of an old man :)
Thank you Rob for that that great info on the fire curtain. I found it fasinating. My goodness, let’s just hope those hydraulic cylinders never fail.
How marvelous it would be to just wollow in all that old 16mm footage. Talk about a treasure cove.
I wouild like to add my good luck wishes. I think what you would like to do would be marvelous. As Peter wrote, expect litle in return, but the fact that you will have helped keep the classics on the big screen will be much appreciated by many.
Be sure to have two projectors in the booth to run reel-to-reel.
Not only is it the proper way to present tne films but you will have a much better chance of getting prints. Many of the folks suppling the prints will not allow you to run the classics on a platter.
Please keep us informed.
Lovely story David.
I guess what I am trying to say is I enjoyed the technical aspects of the shows as much as the performances on stage.
One could see a terrific show at the Roxy as well, but the Music Hall was always in a class of it’s own.
Other theatres like the Capital and Paramount had mostly big bands along with the popular singers and performers of the time, but I don’t recall any thing as spectacular as the shows at the Roxy and RCMH. Of course we also had the Palace with those rather silly vaudeville shows. Sort of a of an Ed Sullivan show accompined by a movie.
I enjoyed seeing the great stage last night as well, although I would have prefered they had used the entire stage. The performers were limited to only a small area to work with. Perhaps the idea was to make it easier for the people doing segments of actual Broadway shows a more comfortable or familiar stage size to work on, and to allow the sets from the B'way shows fit proprerly and not appear lost of that great stage.
The LED screens have their place and are here to stay but too miss the scenery.
I know I heard a live orchestra but where were they hiding?
Does anyone of out insiders have any behind the scenes info on what is going on for tonight Tony broadcast?
To answer the question posed about the many shows I have attended at the Hall. I started going regularly in the early 50s until leaving NY in 1972. I believe I saw every show during that time frame which computes to about 20 years at about 9-10 shows a year making it somewhere in the range of 175-200 movies and stage shows.
I don’t remember ever going back to see any one show a second time and to pick a favorite would be difficult. As I have mentioned before, the shows in those days always changed on a Thursday and we would arrive at about 6pm in time to beat the price change and sit as close to the stage as possible for the stage show. My favorite seat was the one directly behind the control booth. After seeing the first stage show we rushed up to the 3rd mezzanine to sit directly under the booth for the movie. Then often we would return to the orchestra level to watch the stage show a second time. We would spend about four hours at the hall
For me the best part of any show, after the Rockettes and ballet, was the orchestra. I loved hearing the musicians tuning up as the pit rised up to stage level. For those who remember the orchestra could be heard tuning up as part of the start of the show. Sometimes we would get an extra treat and watch the orchestra rise to stage level and then roll to the back of the stage, this would usually lead to the Rockettes coming up on the stage elevator vacated by the orchestra. That was fun.
The wonderful steam curtain (do they ever use that anymore) was exciting, the entire front of the stage would fill with a curtain of steam with a marvelous rushing sound, just breathtaking.
So for me it was not so much the quality of the stage show but the technical aspects I found fascinating, and of course, the marvelous orchestra and organ.
I recall once, when we saw the last showing of the movie, there was this huge thing that began to descend upon the stage. It lowered and then rose up again. Well, I had to know what the heck that was and asked a manager as we were leaving to explain. I learned it was the stage fire curtain which they were required by the fire department to test at the end of every day.
So favorite movie or stage show? Hard to say, but favorite thing to go to see in New York was the new show at Radio city. The Roxy shows were grand to be sure as was the Paramount, but entertainment nothing beat the experience of going to Radio City Music Hall.
I also reall expecting more of a third dimension effect as implied by the advertising. I think all of course in all I was more impressed with Cinerama and 3-D.
One would have to consider the fact that the Roxy was the first to show CinemaScope, therefore never having seen a movie screen of that size in other than special venues, I believe the effect was more impressive. By the time RCMH installed Scope we had already gotten used to the idea having experienced it in many other theatres. I saw “The Robe” there but honestly do no recall if the curve made that much of an impression on me. Funny thing is I was more impressed with the stereophonic sound, in particular the rich music in a movie theatre and the wonderful thunder and lightning crashes in the surround track.
Thanks Claude, I am happy to hear Faith is doing well, she got a bad break with Consolidated and deserved more. She was one of my favotite people, I can still hear that wonderful infectious laugh of hers. I hope to see her on the boards here, she should have a few good war stories to tell about her days as a manager and operations exec.
Posts from REndres, oldjoe and RCDTJ sure has taught us a lot about how the Hall works. it sure must be a fasinating place to work.
I did not appreciate how big an operation it really is.
All of that inside behind the operation information is absolutly fasinating. Once again, thanks to all of you for sharing.
Rendres, thanks for that info.
I assumed it would be a very complicated and expensive undertaking to rent the Hall. I never realised one could rent just the lobby space, or as New Line seems to have done, just the orchestra sections. I understand it all a bit better now.
Was any consideration ever given to renting out one or both of the old screening rooms? I should think that would be popular for exibitor screenings, in addition to giving the booth guys a bit more work.
Any more info would be very interesting to be sure. Thanks again