Odeon Luxe London Leicester Square

No disrespect was intended from my post – I am hugely appreciative of CF100’s updates (particularly the links to the plans) of the OLS.

BUT, I am also aware of the lazy journalism around, and the fact that this site is the pre-eminent source of cinema history in the UK (if not worldwide), and felt the need to contest the impression that the OLS was the last “super” in which to see a movie.

Indeed it is contestable that the OLS is still in its original form. The cinema has been turned down on at least two occasions for listing because of the myriad of alterations over the years. It will be interesting to see if the Empire (former Carlton and built in conjunction with Paramount) Haymarket, which contains more original features than the OLS (despite sub-division), is successful in the current listing application.

Part of the problem lies with the lack of a succinct definition of the term “super cinema”. We know more-or-less what we mean, but is largely a marketing term, and we now perm any three of the four elements that Terry enumerates. The term itself precedes the 1930’s by around a decade. There is a good case to make that Frank Tugwell’s Futurist at Scarborough, recently shamefully demolished, was the first (opened 27th June 1921), closely followed by Brightons Regent Theatre. Both by any definition were “super cinemas” and were referred as that at the time.

Following there were (amongst many others) the Piccadilly Manchester (1922); the Pavilion Shepherds Bush (1923); the Kensington/Odeon (1926); and the Davis Croydon (1928). It is possible to argue that the “super” peaked in 1930/1 as generally (notable exceptions) the later 1930’s super cinemas tended to be smaller and less luxurious. The 1937 Birmingham Paramount for example was a pale imitation of the Manchester (1930), Newcastle (1931) and Leeds (1932) namesakes, and few matched the four London Astorias (1929/30).

The Rio Dalston by F E Bromige was referred to as a minature “super” and IMO is probably the best place in 2018 London to get the “super” experience. I hope to be proved wrong, but with the reclining seats (why do people need to lie down to watch a film?) I suspect the OLS will look even less like a “super” when it reopens. And I hate the fact that it will prosaically be known as screen 1.

I fully realise that I am a dinosaur who fondly remembers the days of stalls and balcony luxury cinemas (Gaumont Manchester aged around 5), with screen tabs, separate performances, masking and all the other extras which have been junked in most venues. I do find it depressing that the only – I think – place you can now regularly view a film authentically in a large “super” is at the Plaza Stockport which is grade 2* listed.

Incidentally the OLS’s claim to be the largest in Europe was palpably wrong as the Futurist, with 2,155 seats, was operating mainly as a cinema at the time. The fact that at least 1,500 of those seats were rarely occupied for a film did not make it smaller that the OLS!

New seating capacity (as I counted on the licensing plans)–

Royal Circle: 90 (recliner) + 2 disabled. Circle: 446. Stalls: 258 (recliner) + 4 disabled.

Total = 794 + 6 disabled.

Looking at the licensing plans, the stalls have steps up to each of the last three rows. Revisiting the old cross-sectional drawing, it’s clear that these are needed to raise up the new rear of the stalls to entrance foyer level.

It is also obvious from the cross-sectional drawing that the revised stalls seating obviates the rear stalls sightline issue, where for the very rear seats the balcony only just avoided obscuring the top of the screen. Presumably a 1.9:1 screen (~25ft. high) could now be installed.

With the screen (at least according to the licensing plans!) moved slightly forward, all of the “recliner” seats will be within, by my estimates, 1.5x screen distance away from the screen. If not “IMAX” standard, this is still sort of in line with what Odeon brands as “immersive” for their iSense auditoria.

LARGE_screen_format: Certainly have been many spectaculars attached to the OLS over the years! IIRC “Europe’s Premiere Cinema” was written across the main doors from LSQ right up until it was closed for refurbishment; it’s certainly still there in the October 2017 dated Google Streetview shot. I guess it must have been changed from “Europe’s Largest Cinema” at some point?

As Terry says “at the expense of capacity” I’ve been in awe of this theater partly because when looking around in the auditorium at a full house for various films like James Bond, special events, and other sold out films, there were hundreds- 1700 or so, filmgoers! Now the capacity will be severely shrunk though I haven’t read a total number. I hope films will be properly masked & the curtain used, as it was before AMC acquired Odeon.

I refer to Ian’s comment re ‘Super Cinemas’ still in their original form.

The term was used in the 1930’s in reference to (then) modern very large capacity cinemas usually with full stage facilities, Wurlitzer or Compton organs and restaurants as additional incentives to visit.

Whilst there is no dispute re OLS in this regard – and it is indeed the very last such venue operating exclusively or primarily as a cinema – examples quoted such as the Rio Dalston, Picture-House, Hebden Bridge and, in particular, The Tyneside, Newcastle were never , and are not, ‘Super Cinemas’.

They may be, in their particular areas, the nearest one can get to ‘Super Cinemas’ simply because they have survived – but ‘Super’,in accordance with the original term, they are certainly not.

The Tyneside, in particular, was a News Theatre and at its largest was a mere 412 capacity. These days it is around the 200 mark .

Had the North East been particularly fortunate in retaining a ‘Super Cinema’ it would, without doubt, have been the Odeon (Paramount) , Newcastle Upon Tyne which was listed and then, very conveniently, de-listed.

Fortunately,currently undergoing restoration, is the next best ‘Super Cinema’, the ABC Globe, Stockton on Tees. At 2,429 seats,it was a ‘cat’s whisker’ behind the Odeon Newcastle which, prior to subdivision, had 2,458 seats. The Globe, I hasten to add, has a much deeper and better equipped stage and, for this reason in particular, is considered worthy of preservation.

Re the Odeon Leicester Square, I am delighted that its integrity is to be preserved, albeit at the expense of capacity. How strange it is that theatre- goers are still prepared to put up with 1930’s seating and spacing, but cinema patrons require much greater comfort and up to date configuration.

Sorry Ian! :–(

Just getting over-excited… (and I’m afraid mid-Hampshire is about as far out of London that I’ve got this year.) I would have thought the new information on the OLS refurb would be received as very good news here?

LARGE_screen_format:

That’s a huge outlay if the main changes are just seats and extra restrooms compared to what has gone on across the square at Cineworld, LSQ over the past five years.

I thought so too—but let’s do a crude “back of an envelope” cost calculation:

According to Independent Cinema Office – How to Start a Cinema – Capitalisation:

“At the top of the range a specialist exhibitor would expect to pay around £2,000 per square metre [for fitting out.]”

No idea when this guide was published, plus all the other factors that would need to be taken into consideration— however, the cost/sq.m. can be estimated for recent refurbishments of the neighbouring cinemas:

Empire 1 IMAX conversion – Estimated ~1500sq.m., cost £4m = £2700/sq.m.

Vue West End refurbishment – ~6000sq.m., cost £6.7m. = £1100/sq.m.

Cineworld (Empire) LSQ – Lobbies/4DX conversion/Screens 1-3 and 5-7 refurbishment – Estimated ~1300sq.m.*, suggested cost £5m = £3850/sq.m.

(*Lobbies/4DX area according to Chapman Taylor; other refurbished screens estimated.)

Unweighted average for Empire/Vue/Cineworld = ~£2600/sq.m.

Using this figure for the OLS – Estimated ~3000sq.m. (including former Studios but excluding stage house, basement, etc.) = ~£8m.

The scheme does involve structural alterations, particularly to the foyer areas; the addition of lifts and escalators, and a new “glazed box” balcony/canopy on the LSQ elevation.

Planning application in relation to above paragraph.

Also, the building fabric may require attention—the asbestos roof was replaced a couple of years ago, and the enabling works for the refurbishment also involved asbestos removal.

I agree that a giant screen in the OLS would be nice, but at the same time the fact that the auditorium looks like it will be reinstated in a state highly respectful to the heritage is a huge relief. It is the last “super cinema” still essentially in its original form operated as a cinema in the UK!

I’m trying to find the requirements for a Dolby Cinema—a What Hi-Fi? article says that the “The minimum screen size necessary is about 14m, but seat-wise there’s no specific size an auditorium needs to be to qualify for renovation.”

Vindanpar:The Todd-AO screen at the Dominion Theatre was 46ft wide and had a 5ft deep curve. It was located inside the 54ft wide proscenium.

cultman1:A new larger Todd-AO screen was installed in the Metropole Theatre in December 1959 (I don’t know the actual size). The initial roadshow screen at the Astoria was installed in 1957 and “the screen was not giant sized” according to Allen Eyles book “London’s West End Cinemas”. “Later in 1965 a huge 70mm screen had been installed”.

Another West End cinema set up for CinemaScope and later Cinemiracle was the Paramount, Tottenham Court Road which had a CinemaScope screen 53ft wide and 21ft tall with a 3ft deep curve in June 1953. This was replaced in May 1958 with a huge 71ft wide and 28ft tall Cinemiracle screen for “Windjammer” which extended beyond the proscenium arch and played with a 3-projectors system.

Ken do you have measurements or images for the Old 70mm cinemas of The Astoria or Metropole?

If it turns out not to be a Dolby Cinema then I really think it’s a huge opportunity missed, not only because of the cost of this refurbishment but also because this is a flagship and iconic cinema!

Licensing Application – Dated as Received 7th August 2018.

In summary:

Stalls:

• Rear stalls largely removed to make way for toilets, switch room, “food prep” area, and concessions (namely, “Snacks and Cold Food; Order Hot Food,” “Hot Food Collection,” and “Coffee.”)

• Stalls accessed through double sets of doors on the left side ONLY, via a small “lobby” area. (One pair of doors into the lobby, another into the auditorium.)

• The last three rows of the new stalls are under the balcony; the rear of the auditorium, compared to previous, is about the position of the seat backs 7 rows from the rear. (5 in the centre section which omitted the last two rows.)

• All seats are recliners.

Circle:

• Royal Circle is now 3 rows deep, except it is 2 rows deep in the centre section. Seating capacity – 90.

• Additional new wide centre vomitorium access to Royal Circle.

• Back row of the new Royal Circle in line with the 5th row of the previous (formerly 6 rows deep.)

• All seats (in the new Royal Circle) are recliners. Existing two aisles at sidewalls removed.

• Rear circle – 14 rows of seats to rear wall. Rows in the same position as existing except 2 additional rows to rear wall. New seats of increased width; no centre aisle.

Front of auditorium:

• Splay walls in same location.

• Increased stage width shown.

• Screen width identical as drawn but moved forward to be just behind proscenium opening. (Albeit this is probably not a reliable source for the absolute size and position.)

*Theatre lighting rail shown on “Second Floor” plan.

Alterations to ground floor and circle foyers:

• Other substantive details than new concessions offer already covered in Odeon’s planning application and summarised in previous posts on Cinema Treasures.

Seating capacity of stalls and rear circle:

• I’m not yet quite crazy enough to bother!

Former Odeon Mezzanine/Studios (now integrated with the OLS as the ground floor foyers are connected internally):

• Screen 2: 34 seats (Former Screen 3 of Odeon Studios.)

• Screen 3: 41 seats (Former Screen 2 of Odeon Studios.)

• Screen 4 :40 seats (Former Screen 4 of Odeon Studios.)

• Screen 5: 34 seats (Former Screen 5 of Odeon Studios.)

• In all auditoria, most rows are 6 seats wide (the maximum) and all seats are increased width being drawn identically to the new rear circle seats. Row locations adjusted.

• Projection rooms removed, alterations to access areas including new lift to all levels.

• Stairwell adjacent to external wall to LSQ removed and Screen 3 (former Screen 2) extended forward.

• Can’t be bothered to enumerate other changes to the former Odeon Mezzanine/Studios!

Looks like the main auditorium of the OLS will survive the refurbishment very much intact after all. Seems odd that Odeon were talking about installing a PLF screen… wonder if it will be a Dolby Cinema location after all?

This being said, the “First Floor” plan shows sightlines for 2D and 3D, with a 100° angle for 2D and 50° for 3D. (As drawn, about half of the Royal Circle seats are thus outside of the 3D seating area!) Not sure what the allowed angles are for Dolby Cinema, but it might be interesting to compare to the LSQ IMAX and/or other systems using wavelength multiplexed 3D.

The deeply curved Cinerama screen at the London Coliseum was 80ft wide and 30ft tall (much bigger than the one at the London Casino (Prince Edward Theatre) which had a deeply curved screen 65ft wide & 26ft tall).

Cutlman1, I was also thinking of the Prince Edward. I wasn’t in those- only in the Empire before division & Odeon L Sq, being here in the States & visiting in recent years. But, I know of them.