I think that the “Wonder Theatre” project was begun by the Publix theatre chain, for whom Rapp and Rapp had done a lot of work. Loew’s inherited the project as part of an agreement with Publix, and probably kept the same architects and plans.
I agree with you, jazzland, the Jersey is most absolutely not by Lamb. It does not have his touch at all. It is most absolutely by Rapp and Rapp. To go with MarkDHite’s reasoning, it may bear a resemblance to the San Francisco Fox, but it also bears a resemblance to the Times Square Paramount (by Rapp and Rapp), so I suppose THAT theatre must be by Lamb also.
Jazzland is perfectly correct when he says that Lamb had a sense of taste different from Rapp and Rapp, and that his details are more finely wrought. Lamb’s architecture looks like it was built line upon line. Rapp and Rapp’s tends to look like it was created with a frosting spreader. This is not meant to disparage their work at all, it’s just that the two had different styles. Rapp and Rapp went for the grand gesture, and Lamb went after the details. I guess it’s similar to the way some paintings are best viewed close up and some look better from a few feet away, but you wouldn’t say one is better than the other.
I just realized that the style for this theatre is listed as “Adam”. It needs to be changed to “French” or “French Baroque” since this theatre is definitely NOT Adam. I think the Midland was Thomas Lamb’s first foray into the French styles.
Man, you just gotta love those cheesy looking clouds they put up. I know they are there to improve accoustics, and that they certainly coulo’ve put up something truly lousy looking, but things like that always just make a place look cheap no matter how they try.
I’m a little concerned. Compared to the photo at the top of this page, the photo at the Carpenter’s website makes the paint in the auditorium look pretty bland. Hopefully it’s just the lighting or something.
You’re right about the marquee needing to be restored. I guess I was focused on the vertical because, well, because it’s GONE! The restoration of the marquee might not be so farfetched. Quite a few replicas of old marquees have gone up, most notably on the Paramount in Times Square, which isn’t even a theatre any more. Chances are the frame for the original marquee is still there, buried behind the fluorescent panels currently in place.
Too bad that beautiful vertical sign is no longer extant. I heard that it had to come down because of structural issues. Oh well. Maybe someday we’ll be seeing a replica put up, as has been done at Shea’s in Buffalo and at the Fox in St. Louis.
Yes, and the Uptown in Chicago suffered terrible damage simply because someone didn’t heat the building through the winter. Let’s hope whoever is in charge of the Paradise has the foresight, and the budget, to keep the thermostat at least at 58 degrees.
I already find myself having to write a clarification. You did not state that “Pueblo Deco” was coined in 1968, but that “Art Deco” was coined in 1968 (a fact I was already aware of), but it sort of makes me think…..if I want to really be a stickler about things, I wouldn’t use the phrase “Art Deco” either, since it also was just “made up” by someone long after the style came and went.
Oh well, you all go ahead and use the phrase “Pueblo Deco” all you want, and I won’t use it, and we can all be happy.
My invititation to discuss architecture via email still stands.
I am not writing this in an argumentative tone. I just wanted to state that up front so that people won’t “read” an attitude where there isn’t meant to be one.
Your post regarding the phrase “Pueblo Deco” proves my point. I stated that it must have been made up by someone in the last 30 years or so because it’s certainly not a term that the architects themselves would have used. You state that the term was coined in 1968. As an architectural historian myself, my contention is that the Kimo is not art deco. Even if art deco enthusiasts (of which I am one) were to say that it is, it would only show that those enthusiasts are misinformed.
Again, I am not writing this to start an argument, and if you want to continue this discussion I will be very happy to exchange ideas and comments with you via email. I love discussing architecture with anyone who will listen, and I promise to keep things on a professional, and good natured, level.
Yes Chuck, I should have specified which Fox Theatre I meant. Since we were discussing a theatre in Saint Louis I figured it would be taken for granted. Thanks for clarifying that.
Seymour, thank you for posting that photograph, but that is the box office of the Fox Theatre. You can tell by the gryphons on the door handles, and can faintly make out the word “FOX” painted on the box office glass. If you could re-post the photo at the Fox page it would be a nice addition to the comments there.
Peter, it’s obvious that Warren has gotten under your skin, but why should he? He’s abused me as well, but why should we let his attitude problem become our problem? Warren brought a lot of good things to this site and I was willing to overlook his “vindictive abuse” for that. It’s not like we really know each other here, so if someone is insulting I figure that they’re just rude or immature and let it go at that. If I actually had some sort of personal relationship with anyone here, well, then I might care. As I said before, now that Warren’s gone, this website will be a lot duller.
Sorry to comment about Warren, but I am just now reading for the first time that he is gone (?!?). I’ll miss him, because he always came up with the most obscure facts and photos. As far as his alleged abusiveness, isn’t it time we all just developed a thicker skin?
With Warren gone, this website loses a lot of interest for me.
Dave, you might also consider contacting the International Museum of Photography in Rochester, New York. They have the facilities to properly maintain, preserve, restore (if necessary)and to display such a collection. If they are not interested they may be able to give you more leads on what to do.
The original 1920’s marquee was simpler. I don’t know when the current marquee was put up. As far as why the St. Louis and Detroit Foxes were twins, I can only guess that the theatres were being built at close to the same time, and it was probably a money saving measure to be able to use the same molds for the plasterwork.
What does he mean by “the last Wonder Theatre that hasn’t been subdivided”? He should have said “the last Wonder Theatre that hasn’t been fixed up or maintained in some manner”. Does he even know what he’s talking about?
Here is a website with a photo of the exterior of Loew’s Canal taken in the 30’s. You can click on the picture to expand it.
View link
Okay, I will enkoy iy vetty mulch! ;–)
I think that the “Wonder Theatre” project was begun by the Publix theatre chain, for whom Rapp and Rapp had done a lot of work. Loew’s inherited the project as part of an agreement with Publix, and probably kept the same architects and plans.
I agree with you, jazzland, the Jersey is most absolutely not by Lamb. It does not have his touch at all. It is most absolutely by Rapp and Rapp. To go with MarkDHite’s reasoning, it may bear a resemblance to the San Francisco Fox, but it also bears a resemblance to the Times Square Paramount (by Rapp and Rapp), so I suppose THAT theatre must be by Lamb also.
Jazzland is perfectly correct when he says that Lamb had a sense of taste different from Rapp and Rapp, and that his details are more finely wrought. Lamb’s architecture looks like it was built line upon line. Rapp and Rapp’s tends to look like it was created with a frosting spreader. This is not meant to disparage their work at all, it’s just that the two had different styles. Rapp and Rapp went for the grand gesture, and Lamb went after the details. I guess it’s similar to the way some paintings are best viewed close up and some look better from a few feet away, but you wouldn’t say one is better than the other.
I just realized that the style for this theatre is listed as “Adam”. It needs to be changed to “French” or “French Baroque” since this theatre is definitely NOT Adam. I think the Midland was Thomas Lamb’s first foray into the French styles.
Man, you just gotta love those cheesy looking clouds they put up. I know they are there to improve accoustics, and that they certainly coulo’ve put up something truly lousy looking, but things like that always just make a place look cheap no matter how they try.
Great photo! Please tell Warren thanks!
I’m a little concerned. Compared to the photo at the top of this page, the photo at the Carpenter’s website makes the paint in the auditorium look pretty bland. Hopefully it’s just the lighting or something.
Please thank Warren for providing this post. I’m glad he’ll still be contributing links for us, even though he won’t be on the board any more.
Hello LuisV,
You’re right about the marquee needing to be restored. I guess I was focused on the vertical because, well, because it’s GONE! The restoration of the marquee might not be so farfetched. Quite a few replicas of old marquees have gone up, most notably on the Paramount in Times Square, which isn’t even a theatre any more. Chances are the frame for the original marquee is still there, buried behind the fluorescent panels currently in place.
Too bad that beautiful vertical sign is no longer extant. I heard that it had to come down because of structural issues. Oh well. Maybe someday we’ll be seeing a replica put up, as has been done at Shea’s in Buffalo and at the Fox in St. Louis.
Yes, and the Uptown in Chicago suffered terrible damage simply because someone didn’t heat the building through the winter. Let’s hope whoever is in charge of the Paradise has the foresight, and the budget, to keep the thermostat at least at 58 degrees.
“Fast and Loose”, the movie advertised on the marquee in the exterior shot, came out in 1930.
Carptrash:
I already find myself having to write a clarification. You did not state that “Pueblo Deco” was coined in 1968, but that “Art Deco” was coined in 1968 (a fact I was already aware of), but it sort of makes me think…..if I want to really be a stickler about things, I wouldn’t use the phrase “Art Deco” either, since it also was just “made up” by someone long after the style came and went.
Oh well, you all go ahead and use the phrase “Pueblo Deco” all you want, and I won’t use it, and we can all be happy.
My invititation to discuss architecture via email still stands.
Carptrash:
I am not writing this in an argumentative tone. I just wanted to state that up front so that people won’t “read” an attitude where there isn’t meant to be one.
Your post regarding the phrase “Pueblo Deco” proves my point. I stated that it must have been made up by someone in the last 30 years or so because it’s certainly not a term that the architects themselves would have used. You state that the term was coined in 1968. As an architectural historian myself, my contention is that the Kimo is not art deco. Even if art deco enthusiasts (of which I am one) were to say that it is, it would only show that those enthusiasts are misinformed.
Again, I am not writing this to start an argument, and if you want to continue this discussion I will be very happy to exchange ideas and comments with you via email. I love discussing architecture with anyone who will listen, and I promise to keep things on a professional, and good natured, level.
I love that photo of the auditorium! What flamboyant decor!
Lost Memory; your photo link from 7/21/07 no longer works. Is there some way you can re-post it?
Yes Chuck, I should have specified which Fox Theatre I meant. Since we were discussing a theatre in Saint Louis I figured it would be taken for granted. Thanks for clarifying that.
Seymour, thank you for posting that photograph, but that is the box office of the Fox Theatre. You can tell by the gryphons on the door handles, and can faintly make out the word “FOX” painted on the box office glass. If you could re-post the photo at the Fox page it would be a nice addition to the comments there.
Peter, it’s obvious that Warren has gotten under your skin, but why should he? He’s abused me as well, but why should we let his attitude problem become our problem? Warren brought a lot of good things to this site and I was willing to overlook his “vindictive abuse” for that. It’s not like we really know each other here, so if someone is insulting I figure that they’re just rude or immature and let it go at that. If I actually had some sort of personal relationship with anyone here, well, then I might care. As I said before, now that Warren’s gone, this website will be a lot duller.
Sorry to comment about Warren, but I am just now reading for the first time that he is gone (?!?). I’ll miss him, because he always came up with the most obscure facts and photos. As far as his alleged abusiveness, isn’t it time we all just developed a thicker skin?
With Warren gone, this website loses a lot of interest for me.
Dave, you might also consider contacting the International Museum of Photography in Rochester, New York. They have the facilities to properly maintain, preserve, restore (if necessary)and to display such a collection. If they are not interested they may be able to give you more leads on what to do.
Thanks for posting that photo, Warren! It’s nice to finally have a decent picture of the outside.
The original 1920’s marquee was simpler. I don’t know when the current marquee was put up. As far as why the St. Louis and Detroit Foxes were twins, I can only guess that the theatres were being built at close to the same time, and it was probably a money saving measure to be able to use the same molds for the plasterwork.
I think the Arlington’s original “gateway” type proscenium was replaced when the wide screen was installed.
Hello East Coast Rocker:
Thanks for the explanation, but only the Jersey and the Paradise were subdivided, hardly “most”. It still comes across as Marty not having a clue.
What does he mean by “the last Wonder Theatre that hasn’t been subdivided”? He should have said “the last Wonder Theatre that hasn’t been fixed up or maintained in some manner”. Does he even know what he’s talking about?