Venetian Theatre
3629 W. Center Street,
Milwaukee,
WI
53210
3629 W. Center Street,
Milwaukee,
WI
53210
6 people
favorited this theater
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As an Addendum to my above commentary. The book “Silver Screens” by Larry Widen is a treasure trove of information about the history of Movie Theaters in the Milwaukee and near surrounding area. I was given a copy of it as a Christmas gift and have been enjoying it grealy. If you are looking for information on an assortment of theaters, with some great photos, I’d recommend it.
I stopped in at a local bookstore and took a look at the new Larry Widen Book, Silver Screens. While he does give some great information on the many theaters that were in the Milwaukee area, don’t go to it with expectations of learning more about the Venetian than you see here. There is one photo of the exterior and it was taken shortly before the building was shut down and several other references to it, but mostly in passing. Just some thoughts for your Holiday Shopping.
Ah yes, Tim is so right about the expensive and dicey job the demolition of a movie palace is! A friend is an engineer and was utterly amazed at the heavy steel work I showed him inside the balcony of our Riverside theatre. He remarked that such today only occurs on larger bridges! This is why, of course, thr the city has sat on this decaying hulk for so long: they didn’t want to pay for demolition and possible ‘brown fields’ cleanup costs. Yes, it will be risky for the residence next door, and they would be wise to demand that the city put them up at a hotel during razing.
One has but to read the story of the man who owned the wrecking company contracted to take down the Chicago PARADISE in 1956 to see how expensive it is. He went bankrupt doing it long after the specified fee was exhaused, and then committed suicide. Most contractors will now do these only on a cost plus basis — ironic, because that is the basis they were often built upon.
A correction, if I may. The larger plans that I had printed from Record Services at the Milwaukee City Hall are of the seating plan and not the building elevation. Perhaps I should have had her print the other plan they had on file of the heating system.
I spoke yesterday afternoon with a gentleman who had drawn the theater floor plan in 1990 as part of a planned renovation, which placed leveled the floor in the auditorium up to point where the balcony curve met the side walls, this would be used for storage or the stock liquor. He told me that his recollection was that the concession stand was gone at that point, but the stage was still intact.
His opinion based on what he saw then and from the damage I described to him is that there is likely little left of the interior and that if the metal beams on the roof have been exposed to snow and rain and sun, as they have they would be weakened and could pose a dangerous situation. He was also somewhat amused at the difficulty that tearing down this building poses. It was built heavy and fireproof due to problems with theater fires elsewhere and Milwaukee codes. The foundation is about 10 feet of solid concrete and the walls are not only the brick facade we see, but other structural elements that will pose a challenge to those to try to take it down. Also, the three-foot distance to the residence to the east of the building.
“Life’s too short” is right, of course. But up to now, one could at least drive by and admire the polychrome terra cotta panels of the cornice and coping, if nothing else of the boarded-up, dark brown brick facade. Yes, the Venetian is but a memory —and not even my own, since I grew up in Greenfield on the far south side after 1956— but I feel cheated at its loss, since I do not remember it operating as one of the major movie palaces in my own home town! Thank goodness Tim R. posts those three little vintage photos I supplied him, in his Dec. 2005 links above. They aren’t much to create a memory with, but they are all the originals we have.
Jim: at the risk of appearing cynical I’d say the Venitian has been nothing but a memory for quite some time.
I agree with Paul, Tim; you have filled a number of gaps in our knowledge. I don’t know how you got those city people to find the original documents, since they had told ne that ALL paper was converted to microfiche and then the paper was said to be destroyed. I guess it depends upon whom you talk to.
It was nice reading on the 2nd page you linked to that there was apparently a fountain in the balcony promenade (corridor) as a display fountain and not a drinkiung fountain, since they separately list “bubblers” (Milwaukeese for Drinking Fountsin.) Something tells me that the fountain is long gone! Those drawings were also unavailable to me, since City Records said that there was only a seating plan on their microfilm. Your dilligent efforts are ironically bringing to life what will soon be only a ghostly memory.
Thanks Tim for the excellent information!! You put alot of time and effort into it :)
Paul
Scanning went faster than I expected….
Details of an inspection… from the paperwork that was attached to it, I think it is from the point when the theater closed in November of 1952 and attempts were made to sell it as a theater. Included are details about the projection booth and stage/screen area.
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Photo of exterior. Circa 1968.
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Hello again gentle readers,
I spent a good portion of this morning in the Milwaukee City Assessors Office and a bit of time at the Print and Record Services Office at City Hall in Milwaukee. I found everyone I encountered to be very helpful, especally when I explained the reason for my quest.
I have sitting next to me on my desk about 40 pages of documents about the building that were on file. These were the orignal paper documents which I was able to photocopy. Included in this paperwork are specifications about the building when it was put up for sale at the end of its initial life as a movie theater, including dimensions, material descriptions (4 bubblers), Wisconsin Chair Company Chairs, dimensions for them, multiple dimension drawings with measurements, curtian size and stage size, boiler information and the list goes on. I am in the process of scanning these pages and will post links to them once I have this done.
There was also a 4 page flyer created by Arthur J. Straus company, a mortgage bond company offering a bond issue on the building (Theater and Store building). The building was appraised at that time by a gentleman named Albert C. Reichard, who was a ‘well known northwest side realtor(sic), whose offices are on Center Street… certified to by Peacock and Frank, architects and engineers for the building."
I also have printed copies of two of the three original drawings submitted to the City of Milwuakee of the building. The remaining one was showing ductwork for the heating/ventilation and was not in very good shape. These were printed from Microfilm on file at City Hall.
First off, it was very exciting to get a hold of this record. I was holding peices of paper that went back to the 1930’s and the assessment of the building by the city at that time. The flyer was a bonus, and there was a photo taken in 1968 of the exterior of the building, configured for Venetian Sales.
Stay tuned, I’ll post links when I have this all assembled.
Tim
Hello everyone.
Well as I sit here I am very saddened by the news of the demise of the Venetian Theater Building. Like some of you, this building was a part of my life and I will be sad to see to see it go.
I took a drive around the building to take some recordings of the current state and see if I could find any sign of it’s current status, such as abestos removal taking place or the like. I’m sure there is some in there and they will have to abate that before the can tear it down.
When I was a youth and it housed the Venetian Sales Operation, there were a number of water marks on the drop ceiling that had been put in the auditorium area, and that was well over 30 years ago.
I shot some video tape of the building today and it is posted here.
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The roof is mostly gone, and I suspect that all there would not be much of the interior left after our lovely Wisconsin rain and snow have had at it. It is in worse shape than it was just 6 months ago and far more than 2 years ago when I begin my project about the surrounding area of the theater.
I’m not sure what there would be worth saving after all this neglect. (There is only one way to find out!)
Hi Jim, Is this local man forming a legit or unauthorized entrance.
Well anyways, I’ll go for the gusto. Put me on the list. I’m very saddened to hear the news, but it was inevitable. Very depressing to say the least. Goodbye Venetian!
It is my sad duty to report that the city has ordered the demolition of the Venetian, as listed on the city’s web site at: http://tinyurl.com/yyornk I don’t know how long that information will remain there, nor how long one of these “tiny URLs” will last, but if you want to see the city’s microfiched permits and other such records of it, I suggest you go to the Building Permits archive next to city hall soon, since they sometimes destroy all records of a demolished building as a space saving measure.
A local man is trying to get a small group together to go inside the boarded-up building before the wreckers arrive (date of that unknown), so if you want to chance the crumbling roof, the unpredictable neighbors, and the police, send me an E-mail at the address listed on my profile page here (click on my name in blue below) and mention Venetian in your subject line, and I will send you his E-mail address by which you can make private arrangements. My health will not permit me to go, but I send my Best Wishes to all concerned. I suggest you read above Comments first. Good-Bye Venetian!
Does anyone have access to some air transport such as a helicopter or small plane that someone might take a look at it from up there. Short of climbing up on the building, it might suit to get a view. If someone did… take photos!
Holy Toledo.
That is extremely advanced roof damage. Except for the exterior, it does not look like there is much to save at this point Gregory.
I was in the Venetian Theatre back in 1984 and looked at the second floor balcony area to rent for storage. The rood was already leaking then. The interior was fairly complete, missing only the seats. As far as the lobby statues, there were 5 which the owner sold to a local architectural salvage dealer. To dispell inferences—these were available for purchase to any Milwaukeean—however everyone was too cheap to pay the price!! A dealer in Denver purchased 4 and I worked at finding enoough money to purchse the remaining one—which was pictured in the book—if I had not sacrificed the money and purchased it, no picture would be there and noone could see what it looked like! Now, what are we doing about saving this “gem” of a theatre? We all agree it should be saved. Sadly our society has millions of dollars for nothing but nothing for something! Well, start by throwing out the TV, turn off the overpriced sports figures who wack at useless objects and put all that energy into saving a great treasure! I worked dilligently for 28 years giving of my life to save a Historic Landmark in a terrible area(which is coming back)and never recireved one dollar of help!!! Is our legacy going to be weed infested parking lots and expressways that noone will be able to afford to drive upon? Gregory Filardo
Short of finding some autographic document with the architect’s signature mentioning his involvement with the VENETIAN, the only evidence we have is secondary and therefore by others. The highest caliber of secondary documents are legal ones, and the best of those are deeds and similar, kept at the Register of Deeds' office in the Milwaukee County courthouse downtown at Tenth St. between Wells and State streets. Anyone wanting to settle the matter will have to wade through the records there for the architects' name(s), a long and tedious matter for one who is not a trained title searcher! On top of this is the fact that the architect(s) names may not be anywhere mentioned, since deeds deal mostly with land and not improvements.
The next best legal source are the Building Permits on microfiche in a building behind the Municipal Building next to City Hall on Water St. at Kilbourn Ave., about 13 blocks east of the Court House. Note that the microform archived permits have been maintained by a group of young Black women for decades now, and they have misfiled so many records, that the archive is sometimes worthless! If you can find the original permits on film plus any ammendments to them, they may only list the “architect of record” and not necessarily Mr. Eberson IF he was in any way involved. Many times a famous architect was paid for ‘Concept Sketches’ by the architect of record, but often it was done quietly, both because the local boys wanted credit, and because the famous one did not want his name attached to the work of others in case they did NOT succeed in ‘covering themselves with glory’ on the job in question.
If anyone wants to come here and find the difinitive record and photograph it so as to post it somewhere on-line, more power to you! My health is too poor to be of local assistance in the matter, but I am happy to give you moral support.
Larry Widen will be releasing his new book about Milw. theatres in September to be called “Silver Screens” and he will list Peacock and Frank in regard to the VENETIAN; if you learn otherwise difinitively before then, I’m sure he would love to see proof before then. He can be reached via his web site: www.widenonline.com
I don’t know if this helps or confuses the issue in question about the architect of the Venetian. Here are several photos I have taken of the building to show some details of it. These were taken last year when I started working on my essay about the old neighborhood.
Anyway, here are the links.
Detail of the corner top sections:
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Detail of one front section. Note that this is repeated at the other end of the front half, and on the street corner facing west. There are no other details on the west wall. The east wall faces a two story residence which at one time had a pop-corn shop infront of it.
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North West Corner of the building looking up
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Heat and Air Conditioning plant area. Note what I belive are exit doors that empty to the ally. View link
And, sadly, the roof
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When I first looked at the building two years ago, someone had attached blue tarp across this portion of the roof. When I returned a few months later it was gone and this was the view.
What this means is that the interior of the building has been subjected to rain, snow and all sorts of weather. I had read in an article from 2003 about the Venetian that there was a ‘hole in the roof the size of a swimming pool’ and that it had been like that for a few years. Sadly, I think this means that there would be little to salvage of what once was. Still, I’d love to get inside and find out….
I suggest the possibility of Eberson because the facade is an amazingly blatant knockoff of the Aragon. I know that at the Aragon, contemporary news articles, and even more recent ones have mistakenly attributed the design to Huszagh & Hill, who were always named as the architects, sometimes mentioning “with John Eberson associated.” My suggestion is that perhaps this was an Eberson design, maybe with some financial restraints causing a reuse of facade treatment, and attributed to architects Peacock & Frank just as the Aragon is attributed to Huszagh & Hill. This is all purely conjecture, and I am very likely wrong – I have know idea how deeply researched the theater is – but I think more research might be warranted, since the Eberson name could go a long way to saving the building.
I only recall one set of stairs which lead upstairs. They were just off the consession stand, which was being used for watch and small radio sales. You can see a bit of them here:
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Oddly enough, they had been left untouched in the conversion to the store except for a door which was mounted at the top of them.
In regard to the above comments:
Brian Wolf: I don’t know where you got the impression that this was an Eberson design; all evidence indicates that it was a job of Peacock and Frank. Very likely the were inspired by Eberson’s works, but nothing indicates that the great one was in any involved personaly here in Milwaukee.
Will Dunklin: You here catch me in error, something I work hard to avoid. Your keen eye caught the obvious truth, which I just now confirmed with the only extant drawing I know of concerning the VENETIAN, its seating plan. This does show that it was indeed a standard single balcony plan with 2 staircases in the lobby, and NOT stadium plan as I stated above. I have not been in there since 1956 at the latest, when I was ten years old, so memory was fading, and it is possible that I somehow confused it with the FOX BAY or the RIVIERA, both original stadium plans, which I was also writing about at the time. I apologize for the error. Unfortunately, I cannot answer Will’s other questions because the plans for the building were not preserved and placed on city microfilm as were many others. I did locate Urban Peacock’s widow and she told me that when her husband died, she told the building super where his offices were located to burn all his drawings and records, which apparently the super did. She kept no memorabilia of his work and was obviously irritated with my phoning to inquire. Since the Wisconsin Architectural Archive did not exist then, there was no place to receive their drawings and we are the poorer for it.
Hi Will,
As I recall in the days of Venetian Sales (a variety store, not furniture) there was a drop cieling which was at the level of the bottom of the balcony and stayed at that level until it reached the stage area. They were white cieling panels with floresent fixtures. A speaker sat on the edge of the stage area playing music from some radio station, I think WEZW, the easy listening station. I’m guessing that it might have been a speaker used for showing movies. I really can’t say. As a kid, having been told the stories that I was by the adults in the neighborhood about the theater and the experience of watching a movie there, I wanted to get above the drop cieling and look around.
The lobby, which was at the time used as part of the store where Charlie sold candy, small elecronics such as radios etc from the former Consession stand and the daily paper. Later he added some minor groceries and beer.
Given that, I doubt the windows went into the lobby. I have heard that at one time there was a remodeling of the lobby and that may have changed the reasons for the windows.
I do not recall seeing stairs in the auditorium. Perhaps someone who has seen the actual floor plan for it can explain.
In re-reading the notes above, I come across something of an in-consistancy. In Jim’s opening description he mentions stadium seating and the possibility of moving between orchestra and balcony without going back to the lobby.
In TimR’s link
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the side view of the auditorium looks very much like a standard orchestra/balcony arrangement.
Jim’s research is always meticulous. If he says stadium, I believe stadium. But it also leads me to wonder if there was a more complex plan than is visible in the somewhat cropped side view.
Also, what happened to the auditorium and balcony during the years as a furniture store?
Last question: what is behind the windows visible above – and to the sides of – the marquee? Did they open into the main lobby? Mezzanine space? Offices?
The Venetian may not be long for this world: your memories of this building, recorded on this site, may soon be the only record of this once lovely facility.
Thoughts?
I very strongly wonder if this was actually an Eberson design. The exterior is quite clearly a knockoff of Eberson’s atmospheric Aragon Ballroom in Chicago, which, of course, was attributed not to Eberson but to local architects Huszagh & Hill with Eberson associated. Could this be the case here?
The whole thing with the Venetian is saving the last of the atmospheric’s and I mean last because there is NO activity going
on with the Avalon either! I was talking with a friend the other night and he said to me, ‘Why don’t you buy the dang building’ from the city (when it becomes available). The city would be happy.. Patch the roof and let it mellow some more as you form a co-op of some sort. I wanted to chuckle at his presentation but I’m keeping
a very close eye on the Venetian situation.