The problem is now one has to buy a ticket and endure the Lion King in order to see this theater. And while every night I lie awake worrying if Michael Eisner is going to lose his job or not I don’t believe it should be neccessary to buy $100 dollar tickets for a show one avoids in New York in order to see an historic landmark. Free the New Amsterdam!
Yes Bruce I often went to the Music Hall in the early ‘70’s and the films were dreadful(1776 and Mame which should have been perfect Music Hall product were pretty awful.) Occasionally they got lucky like a What’s Up Doc but that was pretty rare. Films were being made during that period that would have been suitable such as the That’s Entertainment films, The Way We Were and Prisoner of Second Av. The Hollywood producers of the era did not want to give the Music Hall their product despite the fact that their opening engagements in NY had less seats than the Music Hall. The low budget stage shows did not help. If you see some of the color photos of the stage shows from the 50’s you’ll know why the Music Hall had what was called the Great Stage. It may not have been art but it must have been a helluva lot of fun and very impressive. The Music Hall with its concerts today is pretty much being wasted. Leonidoff knew how to use the stage and its settings to maximum effect. For the Christmas show today it just seems to be lights on, lights off, stage up, stage down. I can’t imagine the producers there today using any imagination or showmanship. These people can only see what’s at the end of their noses. That’s why they have these positions and make the big bucks. As well, the Music hall today is reduced to having kiddie shows like Barney and The Rug Rats. What would Roxy have thought?
Recalling the long lines that people used to wait on to get in to see a film at Radio City I was told by a long time usher, who had been there since The Miracle in ‘59, that the longest that he could remember was for “A Boy Named Charlie Brown.” One amazing Saturday people who had gotten there at 11AM only got in at 7PM. I always wondered if this was true or simply a Music Hall legend.
I remember that as well. I saw Funny Face, Seven Brides, and Flower Drum Song during that period. Boy did they look great in the Music Hall. The cinemscope screen was the largest I had ever seen.I could only envy the original audiences for whom those films and that type of presentation were an every day occurrence. As casual as going to the multiplex for most people today.
Warren this is major news for historic preservationists. I imagine though that Brooklyn Collge will want to sell the land and make a nice chunk of money for itself. A condo high-rise will do very nicely there. I guess Brooklyn historical societies should take note or this will diappear before you can blink. But how much is left of the theater?
I just hope that one day LA and NY will have movie theaters based on the American Cinemateque which will be able to show the films from the silents to the roadshows in the environments they were originally shown(adaptive ingenuity will be of use here) with a smaller theater for the films from the ‘70’s on(I can’t picture Altman in a movie palace or roadshow type house..)
By the way apropos my comment about the Film Forum, they have the best programmer in the world, I only wish he had a theater to show the films in and not a screening room.
Thank you Bruce.
The point I’m trying to make is that you give somebody Sid Grauman’s Hollywood Egyption and they turn it into New York’s Film Forum. If you don’t see that there is something very wrong here you are simply not paying attention. And as for not having money for the Warner or Egyption if LA can find a mountain of money for a new concert hall(and LA needs a new concert hall like Bagdad needs an American Cinemateque) which is nothing but a major vanity production for the architect, the politicians and the LA rich it could have easily found the money to properly restore these two historic buidings. Let’s face it, culturally we have nothing on the people who created these theaters.
Well yes it’s very nice that it exists at all but think of the potential. After all you can show these films in a cineplex and they would look the same. But to have the Egyption and simply convert it to a glorified screening room(which some of the comments make it seem like) is a reel waste. And Hollywood and LA with more money that God(put together) couldn’t support a complete restoration for such a noble purpose? Maybe it has more to do with the egos of those involved including the archictects than with money.
Near but not in. The Mayfair is in Times Square(well I guess you could say 42nd and 8th Av would be considered Times Square but let’s not split hairs.) And the first 3 theaters mentioned by Michael started as legitimate houses and have been primarily been just that.I don’t know if the Broadway opened with another name but a theater opening in the first part of the 20th Century with the name Cinerama would have been pretty strange. The Mark Hellinger(a stunning mini movie palace) has been wasted for too many years now and I’m afraid if things continue as they are might be heading for the wrecking ball as well. Think Henry Miller.
This means that the only movie theater left in Times Square is the Mayfair(later DeMille and then triplexed)which sits unoccupied and waiting to be torn down on the northeast corner of 7th av and 47th street.
As a child I remember walking in front of the theater on the way to the Christmas show at the Music Hall. It was about to premiere Dr. Dolittle with Rex Harrison on a reserved seat engagement. They had the Pushmi-Pullyu costume in a case by the entrance and across the street facing the theater was a spectacular, block long sign above the Astor and Victoria theaters anouncing the film(you can see part of the this announcement in the background of Sweet Charity as Shirley Maclaine is bouncing on a bed in the window of the Castro Convertible store.) I remember long lines constantly in front of the State I for Love Story and The Godfather(which played both theaters.)I did not enter the State until Lost Horizon. I found the State I large with a low ceiling and a not so very big screen at the end. The tearing down of this building was a great loss for New York at the time and no one even so much as sneezed.
What would be great is if the Music Hall would have a summer stage show much as it had years ago for the tourists and as it now how has at Christmas in the style of Markert and Leonidoff. I’m sure that many people are still around who were a part of this and would remember the stagings.The settings and costumes exist in designs in theater collections and photos.(I remember the landing on the moon from the ‘69 Christmas show and I understand in '59 with The Nun’s Story they burned Nome, Alaska 4 times a day.
In between they could show a classic film that played at the Hall like King Kong, Swing Time, North by Norwest or The Music Man which would look unlike anything people see on DVD. They could change the film every week keeping the stage spectacle the same throughout the summer due to costs. Why should we only get the Rockettes at Christmas? They are still as great as ever.
Are there interior photos available of this theater? Also if it lasted so long how could the city of St Louis let it go?
Was there a concerted effort to save it and were the real estate tycoons just to powerful?
Interesting idea but have you ever noticed that the kind of films that make for a Sundance festival(and there is the Tribeca) would look very out of place in a movie palace which is one of the reasons they came tumbling down at an accelerated rate in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Movie palaces were made for the overblown extravagant Hollywood product of the 20’s and 30’s and they make the perfect framework for those epics. Otherwise your listening to chamber music in the Metropolitan Opera House.
Thanks very much Asbury Park though it would be heartbreaking to take this virtual tour. I can’t tell you how beautiful this town still was in the 60’s(Atlantic City too, the Traymore was beyond belief.) The Asbury politicians of the 70’s should face criminal prosecution.
Gee I wonder if no one would ever mention Star Wars on this site again. It’s not a real movie. It never was and never will be. It’s a 10 minute serial episode stretched out to 2 hours and its success helped to kill the american film and helped to kill the way we used to watch movies which this site is all about. Let’s face it we’re not getting any smarter and our culture proves it. Take me back to ‘62 and Lawrence. And Robert this is not a put down of you but every once in a while we need a reality check.
I worked at the Music Hall as an usher during the Easter Show in ‘76. The film was Robin and Marian and even Pauling Kael was wondering what this was doing as a holiday film at Radio City. This while That’s Entertainment II(which should have been at the Music Hall) was playing a few blocks away at the Ziegfeld. At this point the stage show was a shadow of its former self and an embarrassment to all. It’s unfortunate that the present owners see no need to show films or resurrect the stage shows of Markert and Leonidoff(The Undersea and Rhapsody in Blue ballets were sensational.) The current Christmas show has no relation to what they did except for the Rockettes. The Living Nativity is a joke and deserves a big fat Bronx cheer from believers and non-believers alike. The original Nativity pageant was a Renaissance painting come to life.
Old timers from Hoboken who have no interest in movies or in theaters will go wide-eyed when you mention the Fabian to them and will tell you how beautiful it was(I unfortunately have only seen one picture of its marquee from the 20’s.) It was torn down to make a Shop Rite and is now a CVS. Hoboken is a rather small town and it had 3 movie theaters on its main street. I’ve asked how it could have possibly supported a 3,000 seat movie theater and I’ve been told that it was often filled during its heyday especially on weekends. For special occasions you went to Journal Square in Jersey City to the Stanley or the Loews. (And I guess if you were feeling especially decadent you went into Manhattan to the Paramount, Roxy or the Music Hall a 15 minute bus ride away.)
Now Michael, this would be something for the New York City Opera to look into. And what about the mini-Met? Yeah, right. They demolished the Empire, the Rialto, the Liberty, and combined the Lyric and the Apollo. What new acts of vandalism will the city of New York commit against itself?
One should take heart from BAM amd the Majestic in Brooklyn. This is one area that would hardly be conducive to preserving classic theaters far older than the Paradise. Yet they are thriving. In fact the area is now after many years just starting to turn around, due to many factors of course, but the theaters are an important one. The block that the Paradise is on has landmark status and of course it ain’t over ‘til it’s over.
Thank you Warren for your advice, I will check their archives. The really difficult thing is getting color photos of these theaters. As I said the color photo of the Capitol was pretty amazing. And the one of the Bronx Paradise in Time-Life’s This Fabulous Century is not to be missed. Does anyone know of color photos of the interiors of the Capitol, Paramount, Roxy, SF Fox, Grauman’s Million Dollar or Chi Paradise? One can recreate an architectural effect in the theaters that remain but how do you match the color and lighting of masters long dead who did not pass on their art? And this was an enormous part of their impact.
But the Loew’s State and Warner Cinerama were twinned in ‘68(the year the Capitol was closed) and were still used as road show houses. Also from what I gather that despite the twinning the screen sizes remained the same(Vincent Canby mentions it in is review of Oliver.) I was in the State 1 after it was twinned and found the size of the screen disappointing in relation to the house. The Warner Cinerama orchestra however was still an excellent 70mm house and it is sorely missed as NY does not have a single theater like it today. The Capitol is one theater I wish I could have seen. Pictures of its original untouched auditorium seem to be as rare as hens teeth.Though the Loew’s State 2 entrance had a partial color photo of it and that image fragment was very beautiful. They also had a large marble planter or pedestal that had been saved.
I’ve heard it was pretty good. Is there anyone out there who saw Windjammer and liked it?
The problem is now one has to buy a ticket and endure the Lion King in order to see this theater. And while every night I lie awake worrying if Michael Eisner is going to lose his job or not I don’t believe it should be neccessary to buy $100 dollar tickets for a show one avoids in New York in order to see an historic landmark. Free the New Amsterdam!
Yes Bruce I often went to the Music Hall in the early ‘70’s and the films were dreadful(1776 and Mame which should have been perfect Music Hall product were pretty awful.) Occasionally they got lucky like a What’s Up Doc but that was pretty rare. Films were being made during that period that would have been suitable such as the That’s Entertainment films, The Way We Were and Prisoner of Second Av. The Hollywood producers of the era did not want to give the Music Hall their product despite the fact that their opening engagements in NY had less seats than the Music Hall. The low budget stage shows did not help. If you see some of the color photos of the stage shows from the 50’s you’ll know why the Music Hall had what was called the Great Stage. It may not have been art but it must have been a helluva lot of fun and very impressive. The Music Hall with its concerts today is pretty much being wasted. Leonidoff knew how to use the stage and its settings to maximum effect. For the Christmas show today it just seems to be lights on, lights off, stage up, stage down. I can’t imagine the producers there today using any imagination or showmanship. These people can only see what’s at the end of their noses. That’s why they have these positions and make the big bucks. As well, the Music hall today is reduced to having kiddie shows like Barney and The Rug Rats. What would Roxy have thought?
Recalling the long lines that people used to wait on to get in to see a film at Radio City I was told by a long time usher, who had been there since The Miracle in ‘59, that the longest that he could remember was for “A Boy Named Charlie Brown.” One amazing Saturday people who had gotten there at 11AM only got in at 7PM. I always wondered if this was true or simply a Music Hall legend.
I remember that as well. I saw Funny Face, Seven Brides, and Flower Drum Song during that period. Boy did they look great in the Music Hall. The cinemscope screen was the largest I had ever seen.I could only envy the original audiences for whom those films and that type of presentation were an every day occurrence. As casual as going to the multiplex for most people today.
Warren this is major news for historic preservationists. I imagine though that Brooklyn Collge will want to sell the land and make a nice chunk of money for itself. A condo high-rise will do very nicely there. I guess Brooklyn historical societies should take note or this will diappear before you can blink. But how much is left of the theater?
I just hope that one day LA and NY will have movie theaters based on the American Cinemateque which will be able to show the films from the silents to the roadshows in the environments they were originally shown(adaptive ingenuity will be of use here) with a smaller theater for the films from the ‘70’s on(I can’t picture Altman in a movie palace or roadshow type house..)
By the way apropos my comment about the Film Forum, they have the best programmer in the world, I only wish he had a theater to show the films in and not a screening room.
Thank you Bruce.
The point I’m trying to make is that you give somebody Sid Grauman’s Hollywood Egyption and they turn it into New York’s Film Forum. If you don’t see that there is something very wrong here you are simply not paying attention. And as for not having money for the Warner or Egyption if LA can find a mountain of money for a new concert hall(and LA needs a new concert hall like Bagdad needs an American Cinemateque) which is nothing but a major vanity production for the architect, the politicians and the LA rich it could have easily found the money to properly restore these two historic buidings. Let’s face it, culturally we have nothing on the people who created these theaters.
Well yes it’s very nice that it exists at all but think of the potential. After all you can show these films in a cineplex and they would look the same. But to have the Egyption and simply convert it to a glorified screening room(which some of the comments make it seem like) is a reel waste. And Hollywood and LA with more money that God(put together) couldn’t support a complete restoration for such a noble purpose? Maybe it has more to do with the egos of those involved including the archictects than with money.
Near but not in. The Mayfair is in Times Square(well I guess you could say 42nd and 8th Av would be considered Times Square but let’s not split hairs.) And the first 3 theaters mentioned by Michael started as legitimate houses and have been primarily been just that.I don’t know if the Broadway opened with another name but a theater opening in the first part of the 20th Century with the name Cinerama would have been pretty strange. The Mark Hellinger(a stunning mini movie palace) has been wasted for too many years now and I’m afraid if things continue as they are might be heading for the wrecking ball as well. Think Henry Miller.
This means that the only movie theater left in Times Square is the Mayfair(later DeMille and then triplexed)which sits unoccupied and waiting to be torn down on the northeast corner of 7th av and 47th street.
As a child I remember walking in front of the theater on the way to the Christmas show at the Music Hall. It was about to premiere Dr. Dolittle with Rex Harrison on a reserved seat engagement. They had the Pushmi-Pullyu costume in a case by the entrance and across the street facing the theater was a spectacular, block long sign above the Astor and Victoria theaters anouncing the film(you can see part of the this announcement in the background of Sweet Charity as Shirley Maclaine is bouncing on a bed in the window of the Castro Convertible store.) I remember long lines constantly in front of the State I for Love Story and The Godfather(which played both theaters.)I did not enter the State until Lost Horizon. I found the State I large with a low ceiling and a not so very big screen at the end. The tearing down of this building was a great loss for New York at the time and no one even so much as sneezed.
What would be great is if the Music Hall would have a summer stage show much as it had years ago for the tourists and as it now how has at Christmas in the style of Markert and Leonidoff. I’m sure that many people are still around who were a part of this and would remember the stagings.The settings and costumes exist in designs in theater collections and photos.(I remember the landing on the moon from the ‘69 Christmas show and I understand in '59 with The Nun’s Story they burned Nome, Alaska 4 times a day.
In between they could show a classic film that played at the Hall like King Kong, Swing Time, North by Norwest or The Music Man which would look unlike anything people see on DVD. They could change the film every week keeping the stage spectacle the same throughout the summer due to costs. Why should we only get the Rockettes at Christmas? They are still as great as ever.
Are there interior photos available of this theater? Also if it lasted so long how could the city of St Louis let it go?
Was there a concerted effort to save it and were the real estate tycoons just to powerful?
Interesting idea but have you ever noticed that the kind of films that make for a Sundance festival(and there is the Tribeca) would look very out of place in a movie palace which is one of the reasons they came tumbling down at an accelerated rate in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Movie palaces were made for the overblown extravagant Hollywood product of the 20’s and 30’s and they make the perfect framework for those epics. Otherwise your listening to chamber music in the Metropolitan Opera House.
Thanks very much Asbury Park though it would be heartbreaking to take this virtual tour. I can’t tell you how beautiful this town still was in the 60’s(Atlantic City too, the Traymore was beyond belief.) The Asbury politicians of the 70’s should face criminal prosecution.
Gee I wonder if no one would ever mention Star Wars on this site again. It’s not a real movie. It never was and never will be. It’s a 10 minute serial episode stretched out to 2 hours and its success helped to kill the american film and helped to kill the way we used to watch movies which this site is all about. Let’s face it we’re not getting any smarter and our culture proves it. Take me back to ‘62 and Lawrence. And Robert this is not a put down of you but every once in a while we need a reality check.
I worked at the Music Hall as an usher during the Easter Show in ‘76. The film was Robin and Marian and even Pauling Kael was wondering what this was doing as a holiday film at Radio City. This while That’s Entertainment II(which should have been at the Music Hall) was playing a few blocks away at the Ziegfeld. At this point the stage show was a shadow of its former self and an embarrassment to all. It’s unfortunate that the present owners see no need to show films or resurrect the stage shows of Markert and Leonidoff(The Undersea and Rhapsody in Blue ballets were sensational.) The current Christmas show has no relation to what they did except for the Rockettes. The Living Nativity is a joke and deserves a big fat Bronx cheer from believers and non-believers alike. The original Nativity pageant was a Renaissance painting come to life.
Old timers from Hoboken who have no interest in movies or in theaters will go wide-eyed when you mention the Fabian to them and will tell you how beautiful it was(I unfortunately have only seen one picture of its marquee from the 20’s.) It was torn down to make a Shop Rite and is now a CVS. Hoboken is a rather small town and it had 3 movie theaters on its main street. I’ve asked how it could have possibly supported a 3,000 seat movie theater and I’ve been told that it was often filled during its heyday especially on weekends. For special occasions you went to Journal Square in Jersey City to the Stanley or the Loews. (And I guess if you were feeling especially decadent you went into Manhattan to the Paramount, Roxy or the Music Hall a 15 minute bus ride away.)
That’s great news. Maybe they will do some movie nights as well!
What are you talking about paulb? “Bad Santa” would have been a perfect Christmas film for Radio City Music Hall 40 or even 50 years ago.
Now Michael, this would be something for the New York City Opera to look into. And what about the mini-Met? Yeah, right. They demolished the Empire, the Rialto, the Liberty, and combined the Lyric and the Apollo. What new acts of vandalism will the city of New York commit against itself?
One should take heart from BAM amd the Majestic in Brooklyn. This is one area that would hardly be conducive to preserving classic theaters far older than the Paradise. Yet they are thriving. In fact the area is now after many years just starting to turn around, due to many factors of course, but the theaters are an important one. The block that the Paradise is on has landmark status and of course it ain’t over ‘til it’s over.
Thank you Warren for your advice, I will check their archives. The really difficult thing is getting color photos of these theaters. As I said the color photo of the Capitol was pretty amazing. And the one of the Bronx Paradise in Time-Life’s This Fabulous Century is not to be missed. Does anyone know of color photos of the interiors of the Capitol, Paramount, Roxy, SF Fox, Grauman’s Million Dollar or Chi Paradise? One can recreate an architectural effect in the theaters that remain but how do you match the color and lighting of masters long dead who did not pass on their art? And this was an enormous part of their impact.
But the Loew’s State and Warner Cinerama were twinned in ‘68(the year the Capitol was closed) and were still used as road show houses. Also from what I gather that despite the twinning the screen sizes remained the same(Vincent Canby mentions it in is review of Oliver.) I was in the State 1 after it was twinned and found the size of the screen disappointing in relation to the house. The Warner Cinerama orchestra however was still an excellent 70mm house and it is sorely missed as NY does not have a single theater like it today. The Capitol is one theater I wish I could have seen. Pictures of its original untouched auditorium seem to be as rare as hens teeth.Though the Loew’s State 2 entrance had a partial color photo of it and that image fragment was very beautiful. They also had a large marble planter or pedestal that had been saved.