Venetian Theatre
3629 W. Center Street,
Milwaukee,
WI
53210
3629 W. Center Street,
Milwaukee,
WI
53210
6 people
favorited this theater
Showing 76 - 100 of 117 comments
Dear Mr. Faytis, Thank You for your fine comment. I’m sure everyone here agrees that memories such as yours help bring alive our theatres history — especially when a theatre is almost lost to us. I hope someone finds that disassambled fountain you saw under those stairs and preserves it before the sad day of demolition inevitably comes. Jim Rankin
Dear Mr. Rankin:
I was the first to post information on December 26, 2003. Well, it has been a pleasure reading about the Venetian, although sadly to learn of it fate. A quick note on My uncle “Charlie” well he’s over 90 now and just had a pacemaker put in. As I mentioned I started working part-time at the Venetian in 1959 or 1960, I was 12 at the time. Exploring the building back then was thrilling to say the least, especially for a 12 year old. I’ll describe several of the areas that took real courage to venture into.
The boiler room, this was one terrifying place, a series of fire doors had to be opened to gain access, the stairs were metal and lighting was a premium, so I always took a flashlight. Under the stairs in the boiler room was what I think was a terra cotta fountain, this was taken apart and moved there before my exploration. The electrical panels were on the left side of the walkway to the boilers, this would have been the back wall of the theater basement along the alley. Turn right and the monstrous boilers with their wide mouths were waiting. Across from the boilers, under the sidewalk (37th Street)were huge rooms for coal, these however we not in use as a small gas boiler was already
in place. As I recall and only ventured into this area a few times was a tunnel that was accessible by climbing a ladder in the boiler room, this tunnel went around the seating area in a big U shape, I don’t remember any thing of interest or value in the concrete tunnel, no old candy wrappers or what today would be great memorabilia. Under the stage area accessible via the Orchestra pit as we called it, were a series of small rooms, probably dressing rooms, several ornate tables that probably sat in the lobby, some old telephone books from the 1950’s and normal abandon trash.
The stage of the theater had a room, one level up, that housed an air conditioner on the west side, and on the east side accessible by a staircase was several other rooms, during the 60’s we stored boxes from merchandise that was on display. That way we could retrieve the box to repackage the item if it was the last one.
The balcony, no longer had any seats, on each side (West side and East side) were what might have been ornate turrets, this I know is not a proper description, the projectionist booth, only a few trampled frames of film, a couple of empty film reel holders, nothing of any value or interest.
What I do remember as having some hidden treasure was the up-lighting, this was a strip of lights, different color bulbs that were mounted on the north wall about 5-6' high, concealed from view so as to only give a soft indirect light. Probably a great place to through your old gum, cigarette and candy wrappers, I remember finding a raffle ticket dating from the 20’s or 30’s for a chance to win a car, it must have been a special event of some sort. The mezzanine, bathrooms and offices that occupied the second level were initially un-used, the bathroom fixtures were either gone, broken, and definitely not working, a few ornate bronze signs (EXIT) were the only items that could be easily removed, and by the 1970’s were no longer there. I can still remember the ornate hand rail, it was curved, with wood on top and iron spindles, hopefully it lives on in someone’s home. The ceiling of the theater had small holes with lights above, the ceiling was actually a false ceiling with plenty of walking space above it, the lights I am told looked like stars in the night.
Good luckk on your tour.
Steve
Hello Allâ€"I found the BEST picture of the Venetian’s concession
stand that Larry Widen had contributed to a book in 1993! So I emailed Larry tonight to verify the photograph, only because the book identified the picture as “Fox’s Venetian in Milwaukee†were I thought it was always owned by the Universal film chain when it was operating as a movie house.
He told me it was owned by numerous owners, which would make sense.
He also said it was okay to link the picture :)
I’m going to guess that the picture was taken from the late 30’s or in the 40’s because I don’t think there were “fixed†concession stands before the mid 1930’s??
Anyways, the photograph is breathtaking and the picture comes in two
flavors 800x600 or 1024x768. I will be hosting this photograph.
View link
View link
Oops hit the ‘Remove from Email Notification’ link; this should correct that.
Larry Widen, author of the 1986 book MILW. MOVIE PALACES, told me that he can’t find the last owner of record whose tax bill address was bogus! So, I guess the city owns the place in reality, but probably awaits a court action to seize it. Of course, they don’t want to do that since then they will be responsible for the many thousands for demolition —but which they will be responsible for eventually anyway. Often cities wait in “benign neglect” for some part of the building to collapse into public view as a hazard before they reluctantly pay for demolition (especially when no one is likely to buy the cleared land!) We can but wait, unless someone knows someone in city government, since Tim is right: even a cop doesn’t have the right to enter private property without Warrent or Probable Cause.
Video and still!
However, we fall to the same problem this idea has had in the past. I contacted Fred Hermes, listed above, who basicily laughted at me and said it would be a matter of breaking and entering, which would as well all know, not be legal. We would need to get permission of the owner. The city of Milwaukee website does not list the addres when looking for Property records.
If we get all that sorted out. I’m in!
Somebody please take a camera!
Jim,
Email mission accomplished. Surely, my invitation goes out to anyone
who wants to participate in our upcoming event, “Let’s Walk Around in
the Venetian†tour. I’ll supply hot coffee, hard hats and the cop :)
PCino— I know I would also like to get in there with a cop as escort if your invitation extends to me. There is, however, no Contact data for you on your Profile page; you can update that by clicking on Profile in the upper right corner. If you click on my name in blue below, you will be taken to my Profile page and my Contact info there.
Timothy R,
First, I’d like to respond to your Jan 14, 2005 post in regards to “entering the building in a legal manner, with hardhats)â€. If you can find a way let me know. My bro-in-law is a Milwaukee cop so safe escorting services will not be a problem.
I started as a union projectionist in 1979 working full-time at the Uptown Theatre for about a year. After that, I worked as a “relief” projectionist for 8 months working at such theatres as the Villa, Oriental, Downer, Ruby Isle, Mayfair and the Times Cinema (when it was a Marcus Theatre). My friend Eric is now running the Times, since the early 90’s and operated the Avalon Theatre in the late 80’s.
I was then moved to a “permanent†theatre in Fox Point (Brown Port Theatre) where I worked as a full-time projectionist for almost 12 years. The theatre was purchased by United Artists in 1991 and “locked-out†the union guy (me) thus ending my career as a projectionist. Had some great times running the movies at the older houses.
Dear PCino,
Yes, it is sad that the building has falled into such dis-repair and neglect and is now just waiting for a fate we know will not be happy.
I was also sad to see how the area has deteriated and I am told is one of the worst areas in town. I was there a few months ago to take photos for an essay I am working on about my old neighborhood, who lived where and what went on. The Venitian was very much a part of that, if only as a retail store, which is all I have ever known it to be, or now empty.
My only hope is that there are people in the area who are fighting the good fight for a quality neighborhood and working to bring meaningful businesses to the area. They are having some successes. But like everything else, progress is slow.
Where did you work?
I became intrigued about the VENTIAN after reading Larry Widen’s book
“Milwaukee Movie Palaces†and decided to “risk†a trip down to Center Street. After turning onto Center from Sherman Boulevard I immediately saw that beautiful ominous building as I drove east on Center Street.
As mentioned in previous post, the roof is falling in, the front of the building is boarded up. I drove around the block “nervously†to see the rest of the structure. The building had been spray/graffiti painted. Old tires were piled up in back of exit doors. I was going to take pictures with my digital camera but became uncomfortable while being in the area.
I couldn’t help think how beautiful it must have been to walk into the Venetian when it was a theatre before it closed in the early 50’s. I felt happy just to see a time in history and saddened as I drove away knowing that this once beautiful atmospheric movie palace will soon fall victim the wreaking ball. Rest in peace.
I was a union projectionist in Milwaukee from 1979 to 1992. And to work the Venetian would have been a blast!
One more photo of the Ventian.. This picture of the Marquee was taken in 1946.. (note the movie..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038319/
This was by my recollection the Marquee that was in place on the building until the City of Milwaukee re worked Center Street, which I think was in 1981 or 1982. I can’t be sure. Venetian Sales had use the movie display letters to add the word “Sales” under it and then had some of the items, “Toys”, Watches" etc. as well.
Here is the photo link.
By the way. To keep my photo’s organized, I have moved the interior sketch which appeared in the Milwaukee Journal to this location:
View link
Does anyone have anything to add for information?
With thanks to Jim Rankin, I have posted 4 items for your viewing pleasure.
Page 1 of the Article from Exhibitors Herald.
View link
Page 2 of the Article from Exhibitors Herald.
View link
Two views of the Concession Stand,
Note the Gaine to the left on this one:
View link
Note the base of the staircase on this one:
View link
In its later life as Venetian Sales, the Conession stand was used for Electronics and watches. The “Enjoy Pure Buttered Popcorn” was intact as were the mirrors and shelves on the back wall. This was where radios and so on where on display. The counters were used for Watches. Clocks were displayed in the popcorn area. I suspect, buy the way, that the term “Pure” on the popcorn was due to this being in the Dairy State and Wisconsins strict laws against Margarine and and tint of yellow in Margarine.
I do not intend to violate any copyright laws by this. I hope no one is offended. (The Publication stopped many years ago, I am told)
Should this help anyone come up with further details about the Theatre, I would love to read them.
Enjoy
Having a difficult night sleeping what with my heart failure, so took the time to look up Tony Heinsbergen’s obit in MARQUEE magazine of 2nd Qtr. 1981 as quoted from the now-defunct CONSOLE magazine:
“FAMOUS WEST COAST ARTIST, THEATRE DECORATOR DIES
One of the nation’s most prolific theatre decorators during the age of the great film palaces, Anthony Heninsbergen, died at his Los Angeles home June 14th. … His canvases in theatre decorating were the ceilings, domes and interiors of the most opulent structures from Mexico City to Alaska. … Heinsbergen was proudest of his murals for the Vancouver B.C. ORPHEUM theatre dome which he painted in his studio in 1976, when the theatre became the home of the Vancouver symphony. The painting was done in 24 panels, taken to the theatre and applied like wallpaper.
In his long career, Heinsbergen decorated nearly 750 theatres in the western part of the United States. One of his outstanding jobs was the decorating of the Los Angeles Theatre on South Broadway in downtown Los Angeles….”
A quick Google search revealed this, though it doesn’t describe the demise of the Heinsbergen firm:
Lloyd Klein Plans Boutique, Shifts Focus to L.A.
By Alison A. Nieder
Executive Editor
Couture designer Lloyd Klein has been living a cross-continental life for the past six years, with his company’s design and production operations based in Paris and everything else in Los Angeles.
This fall, he will open his first boutique in Los Angeles.
[…]
The two-story store and atelier will be housed in a French Normandyâ€"style historic building at 7415 Beverly Blvd. in Los Angeles. The building, designed in 1928 by A.T. Heinsbergen & Co., features a wildlife pond, a small “moat†and a gothic turret. The space originally housed the Heinsbergen architecture firm. Until recently, bridal and eveningwear label Cantu & Castillo operated its design studio in the building, which is still owned by the Heinsbergen family.
[…]
Yes, Will is right: we would all prefer to quibble over shades of marble (faux or real) rather than the words ‘grand’ or ‘grandiose.’ I only mentioned the words since one has two meanings, but both positive (grand = ‘large’ or ‘sumptuous’ and ‘impressive’), whereas ‘grandiose’ can have a negative connotation that the speaker/writer may not have at all meant.
Yes, illusion was the name of the game! While a few of the larger palaces could afford real marble and some 24-carat gold leaf, most of the neighborhood houses had to content themselves with illusion, and that was not always a bad thing. When most theatres had what appeared to be wood paneling, it was really faux-painted plaster, since that was not only cheaper at the time, but fireproof too, and cities often insisted that no non-flameproof materials could be in the area of the audience or the lobbies.
AS to Mr. Henisbergen’s murals, they would have been a real bragging point for any theatre, since many seemingly custom murals were actually stock designs from scenic studios, and not custom designed for a theatre, so if a mural was custom, it was a cause for bragging rights and sometimes a noteworthy footnote in history. AS far as I know, Tony Heinsbergen died a few years ago, so I do not know what became of his studio, though I have a hunch that the mavens at www.historictheatres.org would know if you contacted them.
Amen Stevebob. You know, all that combination of faux and real seems, kinda, like, uh, THEATRICAL! And yes, it is wonderful. And yes Jim’s contributions to this site are of exceptional quality. In fact, I’d say they were grand. Probably not grandiouse, because he is concise after all. But on a site devoted to grandiouse excess, (tell me another way to describe an Eberson atmospheric) quibbling over the shades of meaning are a lot less interesting than quibbling over the shades of faux marble.
Best wishes
WD
Jim — I totally get it, and you are certainly one of the most respectable and erudite contributors to this site.
Isn’t it interesting how the “grand/grandiose” thing is actually fairly often applicable in the realm of movie palaces?
I’m thinking of a recent thread on the United Artists Los Angeles page, and how others mentioned the intentional use of illusion in the creation of shadows, and how the lobby ornamentation was really all just skillfully painted plaster.
Isn’t that the wonderful thing about movie palaces? That there’s some genuine gilt here and there, and some illusion. Some real “art quality” art, and then again some illusion.
Were all movie palaces a mixture of genuine objets d'art plus faux-precious ornamentation?
Into which category would Heinsbergen murals fall, then, for example? Even if they were individually commissioned for specific venues, their artistic value seems obvious.
By the way, I remember that the Heinsbergen firm was in business into the 1980s. When I left Los Angeles, their offices were on either Beverly or Melrose. Are they still in existence?
Stevebob: in using the term “grandiose” in the opening here I was trying to set the stage for the era in which such neighborhood movie palaces were constructed: often of smatterings of ornamentation and gilt to carry the idea of the theme they were recalling, but rarely with authenticity or proper scale. Whether or not a theatre was more pretentious than real in its actualization of theme is a matter in the eye of the beholder. The PARADISE in the Bronx was grandiose in the sense of being overwhelming, but not pretentious; it had authentically Venetian motifs. The VENETIAN, on the other hand, was more pretentious in trying to live up to its name, since the then-existing JUNEAU on Mitchell Street was actually more ‘Venetian’ than was the VENETIAN if you compare photos. The design of Peacock and Frank’s VENETIAN was more just a conglomeration of vaguely Mediterranean motifs than anything peculiar to Venice. It was a charming, but hardly authentic pastiche, a common practice in those days, just as our AVALON had nothing Welsh or of Arthurian legend. Notice that there were no Venetian gondalas nor their mooring bollards, for example, as were depicted in the JUENEAU. In this sense, then, it was made to overwhelm the modest showhouses then in the neighborhood, as opposed to being authentically Venetian in theme. The name chosen could have been as easily ‘Patio’ or ‘Garden’ or the like since the decor was that non-specific; thus it was modestly “grandiose” or pretentious as opposed to being more modestly authentic.
Tim, Send me your E-mail or regular mail addresses, and I will send you a photocopy of my photocopy of the three small interior PHOTOS (not renderings) of the interior as I listed them in Exhibitor’s Herald, which has been defunct for some 50 years now. This may be the reason that the library could not find it for you, though the Union List of Serials should have shown that a number of libraries around the country do have it in volume if not also microfilm (libraries may lend microfilm, but will rarely lend bound volumes). I believe that the Archive of the Theatre Historical Soc. outside of Chicago also has a set of 1920s volumes of the Herald, but they will NOT lend them. Go there by appointment to see what they have in their vast archives. www.historictheatres.org
If you want someone to respond to you personally, you must list your Contact Information on your Profile Page which is accessed for anyone by clicking on their name in blue at the bottom of any post, and then clicking on CONTACT on the profile page when it appears. My E-mail address can be thus viewed too. If you prefer to correspond, then write me at: P.O. Box 14455, West Allis, WI 53214.
To Jim Rankin,
Can you explain your use of the term “grandiose” in the first line of the description for this theater? This very unfortunate choice of words has come up before with regard to Loews Paradise in the Bronx, et al., and you were justifiably critical of its use.
Is there some difference here that justifies the use of that word?
Hello all,
I did some research and found the following.
The March 6th, 1927 Milwaukee Journal did indeed have a sketch of the interior. I was able to make a fair printout of it there, scan it, do some touch up and clean up. I have posted that here:
View link
for your viewing pleasure.
I also found the ad for the Opening Gala of March 18th. However, it is a simple column ad and did not really having anything else to it. I was not able to get a clean print of it that might show anything of value. Sadly.
The library was unable to help me with a copy of Exhibitors Herald as listed above, finding no such publication. If anyone has something more about that, can you post it or perhaps we can do something via email?
I looked in “Old Milwaukee: A Historic Tour….” by Gregory Filardo, and did not find any postcard of The Venetion on any page.
I found a book by Robert K (Kirk) Headley titled, The Theaters of Milwaukee, which you can view at the Downtown Milwaukee Library in the Zeidler Room. It cannot be checked out. It had a photo of the exterior, as we see above. However, what theater fans may find interesting are views of and history on other buildings. Some of them are very stark, sad photos of the last moments of the building such as the interior of the Egyption and the decline and wrecking of the Princess. Mr. Headley wrote the book for the Milwaukee County Historical Society. It is out of print.
Lastly, a quick stop to the Milwaukee County Historical Society allowed me to view a photo, as mentioned of the marquee and front ticket book. There were no other photos or records on file there.
However, the Gentleman who helped me there said he understood that a book was currently being written by Larry Widen of the State Historical Society, and that there was some interest in the Venetian. But, one never knows about these rumors. I’ll persue that and report anything here.
In the mean time, if anyone has anything else by way of photos etc. I really would love to see them. This building has meaning to me, and short of the risk of going in now… well… anyway.
Peace.
A quick building update. I’m not sure if this is really new news, but I drove past the building on Friday.
The roof over the lobby area is now gone and the strut work above the auditorium is now very visible.
Hello, Keith,
I hate to see any theatre torn down, and that includes the VENETIAN, even though I have never been inside it. You ask if it should be saved, and I must answer: For What Purpose? You are aware of the deteriorating neighborhood and the fact that even if cinema were very much desired thereabouts, would it be safe to go there, at least for White people? If safety were not an issue, then the matter becomes How to Program the Space? What does one put on the stage that is so good that people will travel on public transportation (there is no real parking nearby) for miles to fill its thousand plus seats often enough to support it? Even if one could find an ‘angel’ who would not mind sinking a million dollars into rehabilitation and operation, what would he do with it? Some people toss around vague statements such as it becoming a ‘community center’ as if wishful thinking will cause some charity to take it on and somehow be able to restore it to some level of service and still have funds left over to help the ‘community.’ That was tried by a group of African women who bought the long lost EGYPTIAN on a land lease, and went bankrupt trying to pay for the enormous costs of running a huge, deteriorating building. At the time of its demolition, there were 30 outstanding building inspection orders, and when the owner simply stopped paying taxes, it was seized and eventually demolished for public safety. Really, it appears to be the same situation for the VENETIAN. It is now dangerous structurally, and any visitor there would have to proceed with the utmost caution, for many reasons.
Is there another theatre that warrants ‘saving’? Definitely, the prime one is the former WARNER, now called the GRAND downtown on Wis. Ave. at 2nd St. I was on a tour of it in November and it is being well heated and is primed for reuse, if a farsighted entrepreneur can be found. I am in touch with the owner of the land under the building, and he is anxious to see it reopen to some good use. Marcus Theatres has a lease till 2015, and is responsible to keep up the building to some extent till then, but after that, it is anyone’s guess. Several local performing groups have looked over the theatre, but it is mostly too large for them, The Symphony caused Marcus to remove the dividing floor, so now one can see its seats in a still ornate and reclaimable auditorium, which the Symphony cannot now afford to buy and keep. It awaits the thousands of dollars it will take to reclaim it. Click on the word MILWAUKEE at the top and you will be taken to a list of our theatres, and there will be the WARNER/GRAND; click on it for more, or click on my name in blue below and you will be taken to my Profile page where you click on Contact Information and you will see how to approach me directly if you have ideas.