Hmmm, just came back from visiting that link you provided — which by rights I should’ve done first before posting — and have no knowledge of any theater of old in Northeast Philadelphia called the Plaza, in the Franklin Mills area or otherwise. So now you’ve got me curious, too! I grew up here in NE Philly, but never remember ever seeing any movie listings for a Plaza theater other than the link I gave you. So if you find out anything please let me know as well. Thanks!
Boy, that effort to try to resuscitate it didn’t last long, did it? But with Corzine’s being the current governor of New Jersey I’m not at all surprised. For you see how he’s going after the state’s parks now, the big “get in, make a bundle, get out while you still can” kind of thing, leaving the citizens of the state to only remember what once was once he’s gone. Condos have their place. But geeze, in highly historic Cape May? What could possibly be a bigger deathknell for the state over than that? In light of that I sure hope the Beach 4 can find some way to survive. It’s a beautiful theater, going by all recent photos I’ve seen of it, masterfully designed by W.H.Lee no less. But with Hurricane Jon Corzine pending, who knows?
If you’re planning to go there, when you get to Roosevelt Boulevard and Grant Avenue veer west on Grant, Grant Plaza Shopping Center will immediately appear on your right, and you’ll see the United Artists Grant Plaza Cinema 9 to the far other side of it across its large parking area. Be forewarned there’s no marquee, so if you want to know what’s showing you’ll have to check the newspaper listings. It isn’t cheap, but at least it’s tidily maintained, unlike how it was with the AMC Orleans.
Ah, so that’s what the latest is, though it’s weird that SS would move into one half while leaving the other half a complete mess. Maybe with the SS now being anchored there, it might be safe for somebody to take over the other half and put something new in that. On the good news from, aside from sentimental value, the building itself was of no historic value, not even in the realm of cinema treasures. Architecturally, there was simply nothing to it, at least going by the outside. I wasn’t able to get in to see more. Architecturally, the AMC Orleans had been a bit better, but not much. Still, it’s a shame there aren’t any theaters around that area now at all. But given Northeast Philadelphia’s current political climate I don’t see how there could be. Farther north there’s still the United Artists Grant Plaza Cinema 9, plus the AMC Franklin Mills, but how much on solid ground they are at this point is hard to say. For so far Philadelphia’s new mayor, Mayor Nutter, has shown he’s no friend to the Northeast. So who knows?
I don’t know if it was ever true, but years ago when Pinder was dropped from the Moody Blues, I remember the rumor circulating at the time was because he was bald. And after Pinder’s departure, the Moody Blues sound was never quite as great, as innovative. The 1970s, unlike the ‘60s, was when the music industry suddenly turned very cutthroat, since by that point it became ALL about money. You can really see that transition vividly if you watch the movies WOODSTOCK and MESSAGE TO LOVE: THE 1970 ISLE OF WIGHT CONCERT back to back. At the 1970 Isle of Wight Concert, when the Moody Blues debuted “Nights in White Satin” for the first time — at least, to a mainstream audience — they and all the other acts were perfectly willing to do the show for free, while the concert promoters tried to turn the event into one big rip-off. And the audience kept being told, “The artists won’t perform unless you pay up,” making the artists look like they were the guilty greedy ones. From the artists’ viewpoint it must’ve felt pretty terrifying. For imagine if you will, you’ve created this music, it’s your creation, but you can’t perform it for free if you wish to because of the contract you’ve been signed to. It must’ve felt like they were suddenly living under slavery. Add to this that the Isle of Wight Concert itself took place on public trust land, meaning it was illegal to charge people money to see concerts there. But….it was the ‘70s meets the '60s, and the Moody Blues, along with the other artists, had little choice but to handle it as graciously as they could. And they did a beautiful job of it. As Ray Thomas told the audience that night, grateful for how much it appreciated their never heard before songs (at least mainstream-wise they had never been heard before), “Nights in White Satin” being one: “What you’ve given us tonight, you can’t put a price on that!”
As for YouTube, since I’m using dial-up and have yet to find a way to download videos from there so I can watch them off line at their right speed, nonetheless I probably have those Moody Blues rock videos you’re referring to on VHS. I know somewhere in my old stash of tapes I’ve got a psychedelic version of them doing “Nights in White Satin,” plus old b&w footage of the original 1965 Moody Blues doing “Go Now.” And where I was growing up I had never heard the Moody Blues “Nights in White Satin” and “Tuesday Afternoon” till 1972. I’m a bit stunned to learn only now that those songs were five years old by that point!
I was paraphrasing John Wayne in the movie RIO LOBO when I used the term “unhealthy” in this instance. What I was getting at was that something very strange was behind this theater’s demise and the subsequent fire, but whatever that strange thing is, it’s the kind of thing you could end up getting killed over if you ask too many questions about it.
I haven’t been over there to see it since the last time I took a series of photos of it — heeding my own advice as it were — but I assume it looks very much the same as it did the last time I saw it. Just rotted away a bit more. For seriously, given the unresolved mysteries that still surround it, and “nobody knowing anything,” a “Cold Case” type situation if you will, would you want to try introducing anything new in that same spot? No offense, but with your residing in what some now refer to as the “Soprano State,” is this all that hard for you to understand?
When it comes to where Northeast Philadelphia, which this theater was named after, stands at this point in time, keep in mind it’s no longer the northeastern extension of Philadelphia with rural areas outside it in all directions the way it once was. All those onetime rural areas just outside it have been heavily developed, meaning that anything that Northeast Philadelphia tries to do now get shot down by those heavily developed areas outside it. By rights, and by law, those onetime rural areas outside Northeast Philadelphia were supposed to have been kept rural, America needs to protect what farmland it has. But it didn’t happen for whatever reason, and now Northeast Philadelphia is falling victim to that, along with other outlying parts of the city. Any efforts to try to get it back up its feet again — and well-run theaters in Northeast Philadelphia would certainly help in this regard — get quickly shot down. And right now the mayor of Philadelphia is such (Mayor Nutter) that if he gets any demands coming at him from Northeast Philadelphia combined with demands coming at him from the intensely developed areas outside it, the only demands he heeds are those coming from those intensely developed areas outside the city which aren’t even part of the city, while giving Northeast Philadelphia the full invisible treatment, just to drive home what type of a mayor he is.
So yes, under those conditions, would you want to try starting up anything new — theater or otherwise — in that spot where the GCC Northeast was? If so, all I can say is be my guest, while you better have plenty of back up that you know you can absolutely count on when the chips are down. The last owner/operator of the GCC Northeast obviously didn’t.
Mike, the official website for the State Theatre in Easton, Pennsylvania, which Bill sings high praises of, is http://www.statetheatre.org/, in case you’d still like to look into it. Beyond that, I wish you the best with your endeavor, and will make a special point to visit the website and perhaps even post a comment or two. Here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where I’m currently residing, we only have one last movie palace still standing, the Boyd (/theaters/1209_0_2_0_C/), but under the current political/economic climate here it’s not clear how much longer it will be around. Designed in part by the same architect who designed the State, it’s been boarded up for nearly 6 straight years now and is currently up for sale. But no takers so far — hard to believe, given its magnificent interior elegance and what normally would be considered a great location.
Dave, the last batch of photos I shot of the burnt-out hulk of what had once been the GCC Northeast — taken in 2006 or so — the theater looked so awful, believe me I don’t think you’d want to see them! The GCC Northeast and what befell it is a classic case of, the laws are there to protect you except when you really need them. For as you poke around the ruins of what had been the GCC Northeast you can only ask, what happened the hell happened here, exactly? You see the remnants of what had been a bike stand out front, the front entrance itself vandalized beyond all recognition, the creepiness of those who reside or run businesses around there now, and the only thing you’re compelled to feel is, just get away from this, just get away from this, you didn’t see this, whatever happened here you’re better off not knowing, just letting it go, get away from that thing. Either that, or try to frustratingly make sense of all the meanness you encounter when you try to get to the bottom of what really did happen there. And unless you’re an on the up-and-up fed with plenty of backup, I would suggest that wouldn’t be very healthy…
To be sure, when it comes to seeing a movie like SPARTICUS, that is definitely the kind of theater you want to see it in! At the same time, when it comes to seeing a group like the Moody Blues perform live, a theater no less than this will do! Which leads me to wondering if any efforts are being made so that it can present both motion pictures and live presentations? And I’m not talking about anything tacky or make-shift when it comes to a fly-up or retractable screen, but something very professional and compliant with William Howard Lee’s masterful architecture.
Meantime, to Bill, I’m sorry to hear Ray Thomas is no longer with the Moody Blues. The flute solo he does in “Nights in White Satin” is one of the most memorable I know of and what I wouldn’t give to have been there when they performed this live for the first time at the Isle of Wight Concert! Imagine hearing that song for the first time live! But hearing them do a seasoned version of it live at the State — assuming that was still in their repertoire — must’ve been pretty memorable, too!
Schmadrian, being as where you live is part of the megalopolis I’m highly critical of — in your case Hamilton, Ontario is it? — I feel it’s a bit difficult for you to see the forest because of the trees. And in that same vain I can only say of myself, “Look who’s talking.” For I did some research on Hamilton, which is located in a province I far more affiliate with Neil Young than the apparent reality of what it’s really like, and even reviewed recent photos of it, and my reaction was, “My gosh, this is just Philadelphia the way it is now all over again!” I see the same empty, formulaic attempts at urban renewal being used to whitewash over the same underlying depressing stories that go hand-in-hand with every northeastern rustbelt city now, whether it’s that city, or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Wilmington, or Buffalo or wherever. As in, boy, did our generation blow it big time or what? For look at the timeline for how this whole transition came about. Look at how it corresponds with those in our age group; in brief, what total chumps we were taken for, and with it now upon us to totally undo. Which to me is the only thing that makes sense right now. For we’ve got to undo this monster that was brought about by our own labor, by our own stupidly going along. And the question is how? That was what I was looking to movie theaters for. A means of breaking us out of this trance. For Hamilton is an awful place I’m going to tell you straight out. But I’m also going to tell you straight out that Philadelphia is, too. And all the other parts of this huge nonstop megalopolis we’re all living in together now are as well. We blew it. That much is true. But isn’t the right response to we blew it to unblow it? And in terms of how it is we blew it, I do think the elimination of well-run theaters played a big role in that. For when we allowed those theaters to slip away, what fools we were. What total fools! And isn’t it time to wake up now? Are we going to wait till we’re all in our 90s before we do so?
A Cinerama screen, because it is curved, cannot be rolled up obviously, but must remain stiff and lifted upward in whole (in connection with ropes, pulleys and counterweights, just like an elevator), or be able to retract whole into the stage floor via the use of hydraulic technology. If it retracts into the stage floor, I world assume that would mean it would require that it would have a type of floor across the top of it that, when the screen is fully retracted, would become part of the stage floor. I see no way around this. And the screen would have speakers mounted on its back that likewise would rise in the case of a screen being raised, or retract into the floor along with the screen itself as it retracts.
Not only would such a screen be useful in a theater that wants to be able to switch between movies and live performances, but also between Cinerama and flat screen presentations. Leading me to assume this might’ve been done back in the ‘50s when Cinerama was around last, though I know of no specific cases. Any information confirming this would be helpful. Thanks!
I’ve been wondering if there’s any possibility of having a removable Cinerama screen in a theater that does not have a stage house? In a theater with a stage house this is no problem. Perhaps a theater without a stage house could have it so the Cinerama screen retracts into the stage floor instead? Has this ever been attempted?
Though the owner has no possible way of winning this dispute, nonetheless I salute his bold stance. For property taxes have done more harm to this country than anything else I can think of — whether targetted at businesses or residences. Someday maybe a new amendment will be added to the U.S. Constitution abolishing them completely, and to be sure, that will be a great leap forward.
Schmadrian, I believe your knowledgeability of Toronto theaters is wanted at the following Cinema Treasures webpage where apparently somebody else who grew up in your neck of the woods doesn’t quite have your dark take on the growing up with theaters in Ontario experience. The CT link is: http://cinematreasures.org/news/18955_0_1_0_C/
Go to him now, he calls you, you can’t refuse…
(Apologies to Bob Dylan, but I just couldn’t resist adding that on!)
They just hosted a Moody Blues concert to rave reviews!
Meantime, just as a point of curiosity, how come you Aussies always fall silent whenever we Americans try to open up communication with you? In my whole life I only met two Australians who weren’t afraid to converse with us, one being the former Minister of Technology and the Environment in Melbourne, and the other, a student of Melbourne University, and in her case it was only because her grandfather was an American. Maybe this isn’t the best place to ask this question, but it does have me curious.
To bring things back to the plain of accuracy once more, my references to the Nazis was in no way “over the top,” for since the end of World War II the U.S. has been responsible for atrocities that far surpass the worst of the Nazi horrors. Have you ever heard of or read a book called “Acres of Skin,” for instance? It being about a long series of medical experiments that were conducted on unwitting prison inmates in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania between 1951 and 1975, in all respects it was in full violation of the 1948 Nuremberg Code and was led by Philadelphia’s University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League school no less. And to this day, including the fact that “Acres of Skin” is now out of print, there are attempts to cover up what really happened here during the post WWII years. And check this out: I’m an American who’s telling you this, rather than an American trying to deny it. So, so much for your saying I hold a “myopic, isolationist point-of-view (save in those arenas where [America’s] self-interests are paramount).”
In “winning” this “challenge” of yours, you seem to be of the mindset that truth is not allowed for, thus trying to steer us towards your own self-proclaimed conclusions why the great movie palaces and single-screen theaters America once had met their demise. And I hardly regard it as constructive. You haven’t lived in the real world with eyes fully open is all I can say of you. And as I said in my last post, that’s not your fault, that is, I can’t fault you for having grown up in an irrelevant and very much detached place off to the sidelines and with few things to stimulate your brain to function at its best in addition to that. So stop being so defensive, as I’m not out to get you — though I wish I could say this was also true of others in this world. But by pointing these things out to you — in a way that’s in reverse of my being “out to get you” — I’m just trying raise your awareness of just how gullible you are. And I don’t mean that in an insulting or condescending way by any means. Rather, in the spirit of Cinema Treasures and what it’s meant to be about rather than how you’re trying to twist it, it’s a shame you didn’t get to grow up with the great movie palaces and single-screen theaters the way I did, and that so many young people today are fully missing out on.
Earlier tonight I caught an interview with Warren Buffett’s daughter on PBS’s Nightly Business Report, and the daughter, who seemed to have a really good head on her shoulders, said that in all the years she was growing up, every Sunday night her father took her and the rest of the family out to the movies, and they still go to the movies every Sunday night regularly. Now can we get the rest of the U.S. up to that same level? For that to me is the only challenge to speak of. And if I’m not mistaken, that is the challenge of this website, while yours is only meaninglessly iconoclastic, a contradiction of that very worthwhile goal, perhaps a bit Talibanish, in fact.
My argument is that an economy based on pillaging is not sustainable. It has been tried many many times all throughout history, and always with the same result, and always proving only temporary. And I do not think there’s going to be an exception in this case.
And the fact that you’re not a United States citizen speaks volumes, combined with the fact that it appears you had very little if any exposure to the U.S. when it was great. I’m not saying that’s your fault or that you can be faulted for that. I’m just saying it as it is. For regarding the great cinematic experiences I remember, which you’re so quick to dismiss as having been “imaginary,” they coincided with when the United States was really going places, when we were the outfront world leader in just about everything you can think of. Canada has never experienced that same alignment, nor has the U.K., nor Africa, and with Europe it’s only been fairly recently that it’s begun to get a taste of this, with the creation of the E.U. and so forth. We’re seeing something similar to what once was in the U.S. in India right now, hence why cinema is so alive and well in India right now. And maybe China after it makes certain reforms — if it makes such needed reforms — might experience this phenomena as well.
The Moody Blues — one of my favorite bands of all times — are still around, still going? How many of the original members are still with them, if any? Is Justin Hayward still the band’s main lead singer? You might also want to make mention of this great experience you had last night at the following CT link — http://cinematreasures.org/news/18931_0_1_0_C/
For in my response to that Australian chap’s inquiry I failed to make mention of the State Theatre.
Schmadrian, you should make it clear to everyone that the vantage point you’re writing from, perhaps what you mean by “the bigger picture,” is Toronto, Canada, where you’re currently residing. And it’s still not clear to what degree you’ve ever ventured out of Toronto down into the lower 48, or however Canadians refer to the states that make up the continental U.S.
There’s now a massive megalopolis that exists on North America’s eastern seaboard that did not back when movie palaces were at their height. Some refer to it as the “Bos-Wash” megalopolis (meaning between Boston, Massachusetts and Washington, D.C.) but I’ll go one better by calling it the Tor-Key (rhymes with dorkey) megalopolis, in that it now spans from Toronto, Ontario all the way down to Key West, Florida. That is, non-stop urban/suburban/exurban sprawl every step of the way between those two points. And you’re located at the top edge of it.
In the course of movie palaces giving way in the face of this emerging megalopolis, for the most part it was a matter of redistribution of movie-going audiences, a spreading out of that distribution. And with city-based theaters, along with the cities themselves, failing to modernize in the face of this. It seemed like a good idea at the time (from the early 1960s onward), but now in hindsight we know much better. Which is why it’s strange that Schmadrian keeps speaking of the demise of movie palaces and single-screen theaters in terms of “how things turned out,” as if it’s a “final resolve.” For no, the final resolve has not come yet. What we’re seeing now is only temporary. As temporary as the Nazi Third Reich was I would say.
Happy to oblige you from America (if you can find it in that Australian heart of ours to stomach us) three websites I strongly recommend are http://www.robertsorpheum.com/ in St. Louis, Missouri, http://www.gettysburgmajestic.org/ in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania (yes, that Gettysburg) and http://www.apollotheater.org/ in Harlem, New York. I also recommend you check out this link View link which gives an in-depth look at all that went into the Gettysburg Majestic’s renovation. At the same time be forewarned that not all efforts to restore classic theaters go well. This Cinema Treasures' webpage for the DuPage Theater in Lombard, Illinois gives a classic example. The story of this theater restoration effort taking place in U.S. Senator Barack Obama’s district, the project began very well only to wind up being what I call the equivalent of Nazi Germany’s Krystal Knacht, with Obama playing a major role in this. Yes, we’re talking the same Barack Obama who’s now attempting to become America’s next president, while God help us and the rest of the world if it happens!!! Meantime, how’s Prime Minister Kevin Rudd been so far regarding Australia’s theaters?
The factors that contributed to Philadelphia, PA’s downtown movie palaces' onetime success were twofold. One, it was when Philadelphia was the region’s major population center, and two, the palaces went hand-in-hand with full employment in Philadelphia at that time combined with everyone working in the field of their choice. And people got turned off by them when those two factors changed. Keep in mind that movie palaces are icing on the cake. And nothing wrong with that. But you take away the cake, and just the icing alone can’t stand up very well. And what is such a huge turnoff about fully-restored movie palaces today is that they’re propped up icing on the cake without the cake.
And in Philadelphia’s case when it met its demise, absolutely it was bad politics responsible. We can say, ultimately it was the people themselves who were to blame because they were the ones who voted for these politicians. But to that I say, not so fast.
Assuming you’re all familiar with Marc Antony’s funeral oratory in Shakespeare’s JULIUS CAESAR, Antony could’ve capitalized on the mistaken way that average Roman citizens saw things following Caesar’s assassination and built upon that misinformed momentum. But instead, he masterfully brought that crowd around to seeing things as they really were. In Philadelphia’s case when it hit an economic snag, the politicians of that time did not do that. Instead, they ruthlessly exploited the crowd’s misperception for all it was worth, both by fully disrupting people being able to work in the fields of their chosen professions combined with developing the Philadelphia suburbs which by rights should’ve been kept as farmland. At a time when it was upon Philadelphia itself to modernize in many respects so that people would want to continue living and working there, this needed transition was blocked by the politicians of that time and blame for how bad things became in Philadelphia when this modernization didn’t happen was diverted elsewhere. The average person has a difficult time being able to grasp this, and the politicians at that time exploited that difficulty on the average person’s part for all it was worth. Interesting to note, and with a bit of irony, I was attending high school in Philadelphia back when all this was happening. And when it came to teaching Shakespeare’s JULIUS CAESAR, we 13 year olds who couldn’t even begin to fathom Shakespeare on our own were told to take the text home, read it in the course of a single night, and answer the questions in back. The corrupt Philadelphia public school system exploiting our academic laziness, which I know now in hindsight but I didn’t know then, we thought that was “great.” For how were we supposed to know any better? But, according to you, Quasimodo, that’s no excuse; your take is that we should stop blaming the politicians; that “It’s easy to blame the politicians when things go wrong when it’s ultimately our fault,” and all that.
Fortunately in the years I was growing up in Philadelphia the poorly run public schools had competition: The movie theaters. The movie theaters had the power to open our eyes and raise our awareness levels to things that would’ve passed over our heads otherwise, calculatingly so in the public schools' case. But look what happened, and this was all purely politics, believe me. The theaters were shut down based on this and that lame and misleading excuse, but the public schools, more corrupt today than ever, they still remain.
And some might treat this as the “final resolve,” that what was done was done, it can’t be undone, and so let’s move on. But you can’t move on with something that’s totally askew from what it’s supposed to be, at least not for much longer. And we are right there at that point now. The sharper among us know that. The in-between exploiters don’t want to hear it. And the everyday people who you’re so quick to lay the biggest blame on, Quasimodo, are totally clueless.
In response to WGTRay, my view is that Digital Cinema changes the equation, or has the potential to, that can enable single-screen theaters to make a comeback. What killed single-screen theaters of the past was lack of flexibility, the too often occurring single-screen theaters getting stuck with a dud for several weeks until the next film would come in. Multiplexes overcame this drawback by being able to offer moviegoers a choice of several movies they could come see, and just in case one or two turned out to be duds they could make up for the loss by offering up that which was otherwise. But a Digital Cinema single-screen theater has the great advantage of being able to change what it’s exhibiting on a dime’s notice, and this is happening right now in Europe. And probably in certain parts of the U.S., though sadly not in the neck of U.S. where I’m living due to really really bad politics.
When society gets to the point where making money becomes regarded as the only important thing there is, it’s clear that that society is in major trouble, and all great leaders understand this. But sometimes it takes a great war, or disaster, or depression or what have you for such leadership to rise to the fore. Case in point, it was only after World War II that Germany was able to go straight up hill. Prior to then all “progress” in Germany was just illusion at best. And that’s pretty much where my part of the U.S. is right now, Philadelphia, PA.
Here we have one last movie palace still standing, but it hasn’t been in operation for roughly six years now, with politics being a huuuuuuge factor in why this is. And though some single-screen theaters have been restored out in the suburbs, it’s really not much better, politics now being as much a problem out there as it is here in the city, if not fast becoming even moreso. Interesting to note, only one new movie theater started up in Philly in recent times, and only because a certain Philadelphia politician wanted it. But not for any visionary reasons. And the same with the not too long ago restored Hiway Theatre, an historic single-screen theater just outside Philadelphia in Jenkintown, PA. In that case it was the brainchild of a U.S. Representative, but just like that representative, the theater is hardly brainy. And none of these theaters are Digital Cinema of course. And in a region of the U.S. where politicians' whims have taken the place of actual law, including the U.S. Constitution, would you like to try competing with these politician-backed theaters? If so, all I can say is have fun trying.
But the way I look at it, storms do not last forever. They can last a long time, but not forever. And that to me is what Cinema Treasures is about. This is not so much a nostalgia site as it’s a futurist site.
Interesting to note, the title of this psrticular topic is, “Challenge issued to those hating how things turned out” — with implications being that “how things turned out” is a “done deal” when it’s not. From my perspective I have no hatred towards how things turned out because “how things turned out” hasn’t happened yet, only a temporary setback is all. And why waste time hating a temporary setback when it is only temporary?
Hmmm, just came back from visiting that link you provided — which by rights I should’ve done first before posting — and have no knowledge of any theater of old in Northeast Philadelphia called the Plaza, in the Franklin Mills area or otherwise. So now you’ve got me curious, too! I grew up here in NE Philly, but never remember ever seeing any movie listings for a Plaza theater other than the link I gave you. So if you find out anything please let me know as well. Thanks!
Boy, that effort to try to resuscitate it didn’t last long, did it? But with Corzine’s being the current governor of New Jersey I’m not at all surprised. For you see how he’s going after the state’s parks now, the big “get in, make a bundle, get out while you still can” kind of thing, leaving the citizens of the state to only remember what once was once he’s gone. Condos have their place. But geeze, in highly historic Cape May? What could possibly be a bigger deathknell for the state over than that? In light of that I sure hope the Beach 4 can find some way to survive. It’s a beautiful theater, going by all recent photos I’ve seen of it, masterfully designed by W.H.Lee no less. But with Hurricane Jon Corzine pending, who knows?
You don’t mean “was” but is, while meantime here’s the CT link for it: /theaters/17221_0_2_0_C/
If you’re planning to go there, when you get to Roosevelt Boulevard and Grant Avenue veer west on Grant, Grant Plaza Shopping Center will immediately appear on your right, and you’ll see the United Artists Grant Plaza Cinema 9 to the far other side of it across its large parking area. Be forewarned there’s no marquee, so if you want to know what’s showing you’ll have to check the newspaper listings. It isn’t cheap, but at least it’s tidily maintained, unlike how it was with the AMC Orleans.
Ah, so that’s what the latest is, though it’s weird that SS would move into one half while leaving the other half a complete mess. Maybe with the SS now being anchored there, it might be safe for somebody to take over the other half and put something new in that. On the good news from, aside from sentimental value, the building itself was of no historic value, not even in the realm of cinema treasures. Architecturally, there was simply nothing to it, at least going by the outside. I wasn’t able to get in to see more. Architecturally, the AMC Orleans had been a bit better, but not much. Still, it’s a shame there aren’t any theaters around that area now at all. But given Northeast Philadelphia’s current political climate I don’t see how there could be. Farther north there’s still the United Artists Grant Plaza Cinema 9, plus the AMC Franklin Mills, but how much on solid ground they are at this point is hard to say. For so far Philadelphia’s new mayor, Mayor Nutter, has shown he’s no friend to the Northeast. So who knows?
I don’t know if it was ever true, but years ago when Pinder was dropped from the Moody Blues, I remember the rumor circulating at the time was because he was bald. And after Pinder’s departure, the Moody Blues sound was never quite as great, as innovative. The 1970s, unlike the ‘60s, was when the music industry suddenly turned very cutthroat, since by that point it became ALL about money. You can really see that transition vividly if you watch the movies WOODSTOCK and MESSAGE TO LOVE: THE 1970 ISLE OF WIGHT CONCERT back to back. At the 1970 Isle of Wight Concert, when the Moody Blues debuted “Nights in White Satin” for the first time — at least, to a mainstream audience — they and all the other acts were perfectly willing to do the show for free, while the concert promoters tried to turn the event into one big rip-off. And the audience kept being told, “The artists won’t perform unless you pay up,” making the artists look like they were the guilty greedy ones. From the artists’ viewpoint it must’ve felt pretty terrifying. For imagine if you will, you’ve created this music, it’s your creation, but you can’t perform it for free if you wish to because of the contract you’ve been signed to. It must’ve felt like they were suddenly living under slavery. Add to this that the Isle of Wight Concert itself took place on public trust land, meaning it was illegal to charge people money to see concerts there. But….it was the ‘70s meets the '60s, and the Moody Blues, along with the other artists, had little choice but to handle it as graciously as they could. And they did a beautiful job of it. As Ray Thomas told the audience that night, grateful for how much it appreciated their never heard before songs (at least mainstream-wise they had never been heard before), “Nights in White Satin” being one: “What you’ve given us tonight, you can’t put a price on that!”
As for YouTube, since I’m using dial-up and have yet to find a way to download videos from there so I can watch them off line at their right speed, nonetheless I probably have those Moody Blues rock videos you’re referring to on VHS. I know somewhere in my old stash of tapes I’ve got a psychedelic version of them doing “Nights in White Satin,” plus old b&w footage of the original 1965 Moody Blues doing “Go Now.” And where I was growing up I had never heard the Moody Blues “Nights in White Satin” and “Tuesday Afternoon” till 1972. I’m a bit stunned to learn only now that those songs were five years old by that point!
I was paraphrasing John Wayne in the movie RIO LOBO when I used the term “unhealthy” in this instance. What I was getting at was that something very strange was behind this theater’s demise and the subsequent fire, but whatever that strange thing is, it’s the kind of thing you could end up getting killed over if you ask too many questions about it.
I haven’t been over there to see it since the last time I took a series of photos of it — heeding my own advice as it were — but I assume it looks very much the same as it did the last time I saw it. Just rotted away a bit more. For seriously, given the unresolved mysteries that still surround it, and “nobody knowing anything,” a “Cold Case” type situation if you will, would you want to try introducing anything new in that same spot? No offense, but with your residing in what some now refer to as the “Soprano State,” is this all that hard for you to understand?
When it comes to where Northeast Philadelphia, which this theater was named after, stands at this point in time, keep in mind it’s no longer the northeastern extension of Philadelphia with rural areas outside it in all directions the way it once was. All those onetime rural areas just outside it have been heavily developed, meaning that anything that Northeast Philadelphia tries to do now get shot down by those heavily developed areas outside it. By rights, and by law, those onetime rural areas outside Northeast Philadelphia were supposed to have been kept rural, America needs to protect what farmland it has. But it didn’t happen for whatever reason, and now Northeast Philadelphia is falling victim to that, along with other outlying parts of the city. Any efforts to try to get it back up its feet again — and well-run theaters in Northeast Philadelphia would certainly help in this regard — get quickly shot down. And right now the mayor of Philadelphia is such (Mayor Nutter) that if he gets any demands coming at him from Northeast Philadelphia combined with demands coming at him from the intensely developed areas outside it, the only demands he heeds are those coming from those intensely developed areas outside the city which aren’t even part of the city, while giving Northeast Philadelphia the full invisible treatment, just to drive home what type of a mayor he is.
So yes, under those conditions, would you want to try starting up anything new — theater or otherwise — in that spot where the GCC Northeast was? If so, all I can say is be my guest, while you better have plenty of back up that you know you can absolutely count on when the chips are down. The last owner/operator of the GCC Northeast obviously didn’t.
Mike, the official website for the State Theatre in Easton, Pennsylvania, which Bill sings high praises of, is http://www.statetheatre.org/, in case you’d still like to look into it. Beyond that, I wish you the best with your endeavor, and will make a special point to visit the website and perhaps even post a comment or two. Here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where I’m currently residing, we only have one last movie palace still standing, the Boyd (/theaters/1209_0_2_0_C/), but under the current political/economic climate here it’s not clear how much longer it will be around. Designed in part by the same architect who designed the State, it’s been boarded up for nearly 6 straight years now and is currently up for sale. But no takers so far — hard to believe, given its magnificent interior elegance and what normally would be considered a great location.
Dave, the last batch of photos I shot of the burnt-out hulk of what had once been the GCC Northeast — taken in 2006 or so — the theater looked so awful, believe me I don’t think you’d want to see them! The GCC Northeast and what befell it is a classic case of, the laws are there to protect you except when you really need them. For as you poke around the ruins of what had been the GCC Northeast you can only ask, what happened the hell happened here, exactly? You see the remnants of what had been a bike stand out front, the front entrance itself vandalized beyond all recognition, the creepiness of those who reside or run businesses around there now, and the only thing you’re compelled to feel is, just get away from this, just get away from this, you didn’t see this, whatever happened here you’re better off not knowing, just letting it go, get away from that thing. Either that, or try to frustratingly make sense of all the meanness you encounter when you try to get to the bottom of what really did happen there. And unless you’re an on the up-and-up fed with plenty of backup, I would suggest that wouldn’t be very healthy…
To be sure, when it comes to seeing a movie like SPARTICUS, that is definitely the kind of theater you want to see it in! At the same time, when it comes to seeing a group like the Moody Blues perform live, a theater no less than this will do! Which leads me to wondering if any efforts are being made so that it can present both motion pictures and live presentations? And I’m not talking about anything tacky or make-shift when it comes to a fly-up or retractable screen, but something very professional and compliant with William Howard Lee’s masterful architecture.
Meantime, to Bill, I’m sorry to hear Ray Thomas is no longer with the Moody Blues. The flute solo he does in “Nights in White Satin” is one of the most memorable I know of and what I wouldn’t give to have been there when they performed this live for the first time at the Isle of Wight Concert! Imagine hearing that song for the first time live! But hearing them do a seasoned version of it live at the State — assuming that was still in their repertoire — must’ve been pretty memorable, too!
Schmadrian, being as where you live is part of the megalopolis I’m highly critical of — in your case Hamilton, Ontario is it? — I feel it’s a bit difficult for you to see the forest because of the trees. And in that same vain I can only say of myself, “Look who’s talking.” For I did some research on Hamilton, which is located in a province I far more affiliate with Neil Young than the apparent reality of what it’s really like, and even reviewed recent photos of it, and my reaction was, “My gosh, this is just Philadelphia the way it is now all over again!” I see the same empty, formulaic attempts at urban renewal being used to whitewash over the same underlying depressing stories that go hand-in-hand with every northeastern rustbelt city now, whether it’s that city, or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Wilmington, or Buffalo or wherever. As in, boy, did our generation blow it big time or what? For look at the timeline for how this whole transition came about. Look at how it corresponds with those in our age group; in brief, what total chumps we were taken for, and with it now upon us to totally undo. Which to me is the only thing that makes sense right now. For we’ve got to undo this monster that was brought about by our own labor, by our own stupidly going along. And the question is how? That was what I was looking to movie theaters for. A means of breaking us out of this trance. For Hamilton is an awful place I’m going to tell you straight out. But I’m also going to tell you straight out that Philadelphia is, too. And all the other parts of this huge nonstop megalopolis we’re all living in together now are as well. We blew it. That much is true. But isn’t the right response to we blew it to unblow it? And in terms of how it is we blew it, I do think the elimination of well-run theaters played a big role in that. For when we allowed those theaters to slip away, what fools we were. What total fools! And isn’t it time to wake up now? Are we going to wait till we’re all in our 90s before we do so?
A Cinerama screen, because it is curved, cannot be rolled up obviously, but must remain stiff and lifted upward in whole (in connection with ropes, pulleys and counterweights, just like an elevator), or be able to retract whole into the stage floor via the use of hydraulic technology. If it retracts into the stage floor, I world assume that would mean it would require that it would have a type of floor across the top of it that, when the screen is fully retracted, would become part of the stage floor. I see no way around this. And the screen would have speakers mounted on its back that likewise would rise in the case of a screen being raised, or retract into the floor along with the screen itself as it retracts.
Not only would such a screen be useful in a theater that wants to be able to switch between movies and live performances, but also between Cinerama and flat screen presentations. Leading me to assume this might’ve been done back in the ‘50s when Cinerama was around last, though I know of no specific cases. Any information confirming this would be helpful. Thanks!
I’ve been wondering if there’s any possibility of having a removable Cinerama screen in a theater that does not have a stage house? In a theater with a stage house this is no problem. Perhaps a theater without a stage house could have it so the Cinerama screen retracts into the stage floor instead? Has this ever been attempted?
Though the owner has no possible way of winning this dispute, nonetheless I salute his bold stance. For property taxes have done more harm to this country than anything else I can think of — whether targetted at businesses or residences. Someday maybe a new amendment will be added to the U.S. Constitution abolishing them completely, and to be sure, that will be a great leap forward.
Schmadrian, I believe your knowledgeability of Toronto theaters is wanted at the following Cinema Treasures webpage where apparently somebody else who grew up in your neck of the woods doesn’t quite have your dark take on the growing up with theaters in Ontario experience. The CT link is: http://cinematreasures.org/news/18955_0_1_0_C/
Go to him now, he calls you, you can’t refuse…
(Apologies to Bob Dylan, but I just couldn’t resist adding that on!)
P.S.: Here’s another great theater you should also check out — http://www.statetheatre.org/
They just hosted a Moody Blues concert to rave reviews!
Meantime, just as a point of curiosity, how come you Aussies always fall silent whenever we Americans try to open up communication with you? In my whole life I only met two Australians who weren’t afraid to converse with us, one being the former Minister of Technology and the Environment in Melbourne, and the other, a student of Melbourne University, and in her case it was only because her grandfather was an American. Maybe this isn’t the best place to ask this question, but it does have me curious.
To bring things back to the plain of accuracy once more, my references to the Nazis was in no way “over the top,” for since the end of World War II the U.S. has been responsible for atrocities that far surpass the worst of the Nazi horrors. Have you ever heard of or read a book called “Acres of Skin,” for instance? It being about a long series of medical experiments that were conducted on unwitting prison inmates in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania between 1951 and 1975, in all respects it was in full violation of the 1948 Nuremberg Code and was led by Philadelphia’s University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League school no less. And to this day, including the fact that “Acres of Skin” is now out of print, there are attempts to cover up what really happened here during the post WWII years. And check this out: I’m an American who’s telling you this, rather than an American trying to deny it. So, so much for your saying I hold a “myopic, isolationist point-of-view (save in those arenas where [America’s] self-interests are paramount).”
In “winning” this “challenge” of yours, you seem to be of the mindset that truth is not allowed for, thus trying to steer us towards your own self-proclaimed conclusions why the great movie palaces and single-screen theaters America once had met their demise. And I hardly regard it as constructive. You haven’t lived in the real world with eyes fully open is all I can say of you. And as I said in my last post, that’s not your fault, that is, I can’t fault you for having grown up in an irrelevant and very much detached place off to the sidelines and with few things to stimulate your brain to function at its best in addition to that. So stop being so defensive, as I’m not out to get you — though I wish I could say this was also true of others in this world. But by pointing these things out to you — in a way that’s in reverse of my being “out to get you” — I’m just trying raise your awareness of just how gullible you are. And I don’t mean that in an insulting or condescending way by any means. Rather, in the spirit of Cinema Treasures and what it’s meant to be about rather than how you’re trying to twist it, it’s a shame you didn’t get to grow up with the great movie palaces and single-screen theaters the way I did, and that so many young people today are fully missing out on.
Earlier tonight I caught an interview with Warren Buffett’s daughter on PBS’s Nightly Business Report, and the daughter, who seemed to have a really good head on her shoulders, said that in all the years she was growing up, every Sunday night her father took her and the rest of the family out to the movies, and they still go to the movies every Sunday night regularly. Now can we get the rest of the U.S. up to that same level? For that to me is the only challenge to speak of. And if I’m not mistaken, that is the challenge of this website, while yours is only meaninglessly iconoclastic, a contradiction of that very worthwhile goal, perhaps a bit Talibanish, in fact.
My argument is that an economy based on pillaging is not sustainable. It has been tried many many times all throughout history, and always with the same result, and always proving only temporary. And I do not think there’s going to be an exception in this case.
And the fact that you’re not a United States citizen speaks volumes, combined with the fact that it appears you had very little if any exposure to the U.S. when it was great. I’m not saying that’s your fault or that you can be faulted for that. I’m just saying it as it is. For regarding the great cinematic experiences I remember, which you’re so quick to dismiss as having been “imaginary,” they coincided with when the United States was really going places, when we were the outfront world leader in just about everything you can think of. Canada has never experienced that same alignment, nor has the U.K., nor Africa, and with Europe it’s only been fairly recently that it’s begun to get a taste of this, with the creation of the E.U. and so forth. We’re seeing something similar to what once was in the U.S. in India right now, hence why cinema is so alive and well in India right now. And maybe China after it makes certain reforms — if it makes such needed reforms — might experience this phenomena as well.
Yes, that’s so typical of how it is around there now. It’s the current state of the Philadelphia economy, what more can I say?
The Moody Blues — one of my favorite bands of all times — are still around, still going? How many of the original members are still with them, if any? Is Justin Hayward still the band’s main lead singer? You might also want to make mention of this great experience you had last night at the following CT link — http://cinematreasures.org/news/18931_0_1_0_C/
For in my response to that Australian chap’s inquiry I failed to make mention of the State Theatre.
Schmadrian, you should make it clear to everyone that the vantage point you’re writing from, perhaps what you mean by “the bigger picture,” is Toronto, Canada, where you’re currently residing. And it’s still not clear to what degree you’ve ever ventured out of Toronto down into the lower 48, or however Canadians refer to the states that make up the continental U.S.
There’s now a massive megalopolis that exists on North America’s eastern seaboard that did not back when movie palaces were at their height. Some refer to it as the “Bos-Wash” megalopolis (meaning between Boston, Massachusetts and Washington, D.C.) but I’ll go one better by calling it the Tor-Key (rhymes with dorkey) megalopolis, in that it now spans from Toronto, Ontario all the way down to Key West, Florida. That is, non-stop urban/suburban/exurban sprawl every step of the way between those two points. And you’re located at the top edge of it.
In the course of movie palaces giving way in the face of this emerging megalopolis, for the most part it was a matter of redistribution of movie-going audiences, a spreading out of that distribution. And with city-based theaters, along with the cities themselves, failing to modernize in the face of this. It seemed like a good idea at the time (from the early 1960s onward), but now in hindsight we know much better. Which is why it’s strange that Schmadrian keeps speaking of the demise of movie palaces and single-screen theaters in terms of “how things turned out,” as if it’s a “final resolve.” For no, the final resolve has not come yet. What we’re seeing now is only temporary. As temporary as the Nazi Third Reich was I would say.
Oops, here’s the link for the Cinema Treasures webpage giving the full rundown regarding the DuPage Theater in Lombard, Illinois:
/theaters/801/
Happy to oblige you from America (if you can find it in that Australian heart of ours to stomach us) three websites I strongly recommend are http://www.robertsorpheum.com/ in St. Louis, Missouri, http://www.gettysburgmajestic.org/ in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania (yes, that Gettysburg) and http://www.apollotheater.org/ in Harlem, New York. I also recommend you check out this link View link which gives an in-depth look at all that went into the Gettysburg Majestic’s renovation. At the same time be forewarned that not all efforts to restore classic theaters go well. This Cinema Treasures' webpage for the DuPage Theater in Lombard, Illinois gives a classic example. The story of this theater restoration effort taking place in U.S. Senator Barack Obama’s district, the project began very well only to wind up being what I call the equivalent of Nazi Germany’s Krystal Knacht, with Obama playing a major role in this. Yes, we’re talking the same Barack Obama who’s now attempting to become America’s next president, while God help us and the rest of the world if it happens!!! Meantime, how’s Prime Minister Kevin Rudd been so far regarding Australia’s theaters?
Anytime…
The factors that contributed to Philadelphia, PA’s downtown movie palaces' onetime success were twofold. One, it was when Philadelphia was the region’s major population center, and two, the palaces went hand-in-hand with full employment in Philadelphia at that time combined with everyone working in the field of their choice. And people got turned off by them when those two factors changed. Keep in mind that movie palaces are icing on the cake. And nothing wrong with that. But you take away the cake, and just the icing alone can’t stand up very well. And what is such a huge turnoff about fully-restored movie palaces today is that they’re propped up icing on the cake without the cake.
And in Philadelphia’s case when it met its demise, absolutely it was bad politics responsible. We can say, ultimately it was the people themselves who were to blame because they were the ones who voted for these politicians. But to that I say, not so fast.
Assuming you’re all familiar with Marc Antony’s funeral oratory in Shakespeare’s JULIUS CAESAR, Antony could’ve capitalized on the mistaken way that average Roman citizens saw things following Caesar’s assassination and built upon that misinformed momentum. But instead, he masterfully brought that crowd around to seeing things as they really were. In Philadelphia’s case when it hit an economic snag, the politicians of that time did not do that. Instead, they ruthlessly exploited the crowd’s misperception for all it was worth, both by fully disrupting people being able to work in the fields of their chosen professions combined with developing the Philadelphia suburbs which by rights should’ve been kept as farmland. At a time when it was upon Philadelphia itself to modernize in many respects so that people would want to continue living and working there, this needed transition was blocked by the politicians of that time and blame for how bad things became in Philadelphia when this modernization didn’t happen was diverted elsewhere. The average person has a difficult time being able to grasp this, and the politicians at that time exploited that difficulty on the average person’s part for all it was worth. Interesting to note, and with a bit of irony, I was attending high school in Philadelphia back when all this was happening. And when it came to teaching Shakespeare’s JULIUS CAESAR, we 13 year olds who couldn’t even begin to fathom Shakespeare on our own were told to take the text home, read it in the course of a single night, and answer the questions in back. The corrupt Philadelphia public school system exploiting our academic laziness, which I know now in hindsight but I didn’t know then, we thought that was “great.” For how were we supposed to know any better? But, according to you, Quasimodo, that’s no excuse; your take is that we should stop blaming the politicians; that “It’s easy to blame the politicians when things go wrong when it’s ultimately our fault,” and all that.
Fortunately in the years I was growing up in Philadelphia the poorly run public schools had competition: The movie theaters. The movie theaters had the power to open our eyes and raise our awareness levels to things that would’ve passed over our heads otherwise, calculatingly so in the public schools' case. But look what happened, and this was all purely politics, believe me. The theaters were shut down based on this and that lame and misleading excuse, but the public schools, more corrupt today than ever, they still remain.
And some might treat this as the “final resolve,” that what was done was done, it can’t be undone, and so let’s move on. But you can’t move on with something that’s totally askew from what it’s supposed to be, at least not for much longer. And we are right there at that point now. The sharper among us know that. The in-between exploiters don’t want to hear it. And the everyday people who you’re so quick to lay the biggest blame on, Quasimodo, are totally clueless.
In response to WGTRay, my view is that Digital Cinema changes the equation, or has the potential to, that can enable single-screen theaters to make a comeback. What killed single-screen theaters of the past was lack of flexibility, the too often occurring single-screen theaters getting stuck with a dud for several weeks until the next film would come in. Multiplexes overcame this drawback by being able to offer moviegoers a choice of several movies they could come see, and just in case one or two turned out to be duds they could make up for the loss by offering up that which was otherwise. But a Digital Cinema single-screen theater has the great advantage of being able to change what it’s exhibiting on a dime’s notice, and this is happening right now in Europe. And probably in certain parts of the U.S., though sadly not in the neck of U.S. where I’m living due to really really bad politics.
When society gets to the point where making money becomes regarded as the only important thing there is, it’s clear that that society is in major trouble, and all great leaders understand this. But sometimes it takes a great war, or disaster, or depression or what have you for such leadership to rise to the fore. Case in point, it was only after World War II that Germany was able to go straight up hill. Prior to then all “progress” in Germany was just illusion at best. And that’s pretty much where my part of the U.S. is right now, Philadelphia, PA.
Here we have one last movie palace still standing, but it hasn’t been in operation for roughly six years now, with politics being a huuuuuuge factor in why this is. And though some single-screen theaters have been restored out in the suburbs, it’s really not much better, politics now being as much a problem out there as it is here in the city, if not fast becoming even moreso. Interesting to note, only one new movie theater started up in Philly in recent times, and only because a certain Philadelphia politician wanted it. But not for any visionary reasons. And the same with the not too long ago restored Hiway Theatre, an historic single-screen theater just outside Philadelphia in Jenkintown, PA. In that case it was the brainchild of a U.S. Representative, but just like that representative, the theater is hardly brainy. And none of these theaters are Digital Cinema of course. And in a region of the U.S. where politicians' whims have taken the place of actual law, including the U.S. Constitution, would you like to try competing with these politician-backed theaters? If so, all I can say is have fun trying.
But the way I look at it, storms do not last forever. They can last a long time, but not forever. And that to me is what Cinema Treasures is about. This is not so much a nostalgia site as it’s a futurist site.
Interesting to note, the title of this psrticular topic is, “Challenge issued to those hating how things turned out” — with implications being that “how things turned out” is a “done deal” when it’s not. From my perspective I have no hatred towards how things turned out because “how things turned out” hasn’t happened yet, only a temporary setback is all. And why waste time hating a temporary setback when it is only temporary?