I never knew the Times Square of the ‘20’s, '30’s, '40’s or '50’s so I can’t really relate to Mr. Astaire and others of or closer to his generation. I grew up knowing the Times Square of the late '70’s and '80’s. I understand that crime was a problem that needed to be solved and that a good deal of cleanup was required – but to completely sweep aside any semblance of its former attractions was uncalled for. But such is the way of real estate politics in NYC. It’s happening all over again right now in Coney Island (a place that cleaned up its act greatly in the last 20 years without sacrificing a lot of what made it such a unique and special destination).
Yup. I caught that one when I first saw “Fast Times” in theaters way back when. “Kashmir” is on the album “Physical Graffiti.” What that has to do with the Madison, I have no idea! Perhaps you caught that film here, Panzera? LOL!
You hit the nail on the head, Al. I miss the honky-tonk atmosphere. The grinders on 42nd represented the last bastion of showmanship on the part of the motion picture exhibition industry. The very signage that clung to the entrances to each theater hawked passersby for their business with a flair and stylishness that has vanished from the moviegoing experience. Was the fare playing within lurid and exploitative? To be sure. This was not “grade A Hollywood product” for the most part – but it was cinema on the edge. Outlandish, independently made (or foreign) films that beckoned audience participation and therefore celebrated the very act of being part of a collective experience. Even the non-descript XXX mini-cinemas of the area that were converted from former store-fronts and office space did more to entice and intrigue potential customers than any of the full page ads one finds in the NY Times or the 30 second spots on TV today.
Hey folks… Was wondering if anyone would be able to confirm if this theater – depicted in a screen-shot from the documentary “Inside Deep Throat” – is the 10th Street Art Theatre? It sure looks like the marquee indicates a very similar name – I just can’t make-out that first word as “10th” or “Tenth”… but the rest of it definitely reads “St Art Theatre.”
Hey folks… I’m trying to identify this theater depicted in a screen-shot from the documentary “Inside Deep Throat.” Could the very colorful marquee belong to this theatre? The film on the marquee was released in early 1971, just to give an idea of the time-frame.
The problem with the new Times Square is that the area has become an ersatz and expensive “Main Street USA” version of its former self. So much rich and colorful history was bulldozed for glossy high-rise office towers or upscale/overpriced franchised eateries, boutiques and Disney-like attractions. Yes, all the screens lost in Times Square and 42nd Street were eventually replaced (and more than doubled) between 25 screens of the AMC Empire and the 13 across the street at the E-Walk – but with none of the charm, identity or unique programming and showmanship of the original movie houses in the area. We now have Madam Tussauds and have seen the return of Ripley’s Believe it Or Not… but at admission prices upwards of $23 per person? It’s very nice to have at least some of the old theaters on 42nd Street returned to their original glory – but of the 9 historic houses that dotted the Duece only 3 houses have legitimately been restored and put to good use (I refuse to count the dismantling and combination of the original Lyric and Apollo sites). And who can afford to go to a legitimate show these days anyhow? Tickets priced at $120 per seat are bad enough, but come October folks will have the privelege of being able to shell out as much as $450 a ticket for the new Mel Brooks musical version of “Young Frankenstien!”
Is there some good mixed in with the loss? Sure… I absolutely love the family theater that has been presented for reasonable admission prices at the gloriously restored New Victory Theater and the restoration job that Disney did at the New Amsterdam is nothing short of breathtaking. But for the most part, all of the rezoning and rebuilding was done for the tourists and the real estate developers – without a whole lot of thought given to the average New Yorker. And the glorious history of motion picture exhibition that was as much a part of the area’s history as legitimate theater was utterly and completly ignored in the “grand design.”
Just to beat a dead horse on this NYC geography issue in the ‘33 “King Kong”, let me just add two things. Firstly, it could be that Kong had rampaged through the City after breaking out of the theater in a random or circular manner. Secondly (and probably more to the heart of the matter), Hollywood has never much concerned itself with accurate geographic depictions of NYC. That probably goes for a lot of other cities as well, but since NY is the only city with which I’m intimately familiar I can only be sure of the inconsistencies in its many cinematic portrayals. “Independence Day” put the Empire State Building smack in the middle of Fifth Avenue (like Grand Central Terminal straddles Park Ave), for example. Speaking of Grand Central, “Men in Black” had Will Smith jumping off the auto-ramp that circumvents the Terminal onto a truck – which then turns a quick corner and winds up in front of the Guggenheim Museum (which is actually some 40 plus blocks uptown and a couple of avenues over).
Anyway, the Hippodrome is a very likely location for the theater in Kong, Lost… great suggestion!
Saps, you’re hilarious! I have a good idea what might be on top of the list of phrases “IFA” might be an acronym for! It seems IFA might have written his rant in his native tongue and then used an online translation servce for that idiom-challenged post.
Someone above asked about the location of the theater in which King Kong is presented to NYC crowds in the original 1933 version. The theater was never specified in the movie, and as I recall, you never catch a glimpse of any architectural elements. It is my understanding that the theater interior shots were filmed at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. The exterior shot of the “Eighth Wonder of the World” sign was likely of a miniature. In any event, I get the idea that the filmmakers intended the theater to be on Broadway in the Times Square area – even though it is not specified. It would seem to be the most logical assumption – and the theater is clearly not Radio City. Books I’ve read on the making of the Kong also indicate that it is the Sixth Avenue El that was recreated for the movie.
The 2005 remake actually recreates 1930’s era Times Square via CGI and places Kong on the stage of the fictional “Alhambra Theatre” which is depicted as being situated at the location of the real life RKO Palace Theatre on Seventh Avenue just off 47th Street.
Calling AlAlvarez!!! A member of CT (Hollywood90038) sent me some video he shot back around 1990/91 that shows a small porn theater around the corner from the Circus Cinema that was named “World Theater” per the marquee signage. This would have been on the south side of 49th Street just east of Broadway – adjacent to the RKO Video that was on that corner. I’ll have a screen-shot showing the small triangular marquee to post here tomorrow.
I’ve always been confused about the location of the more famous World 49th Street – thinking it was on the short block between 7th and B'way and on the south side of the street. Of course, that theater (the former Punch and Judy) was between 6th and 7th on the north side of 49th. Now I guess I know why – I must have had this marquee in my mind’s eye! I suppose once the original World theater was forced out by its landlords (Rockefeller Center) in favor of a mainstream house run by Embassy, perhaps the World management might have opened this small converted space as replacement? Any recollections out there?
Ha, I hadn’t even noticed that in my own clipping saps! I caught that one once or twice on the back-end of some double feature at the Liberty! Nothing like a horribly dubbed Nazi prison-camp S&M flick with plenty of nudity and violence to satiate the entertainment needs of a healthy American 16 year-old such as myself back in the early ‘80’s! I have such great memories of the old Duece! Much as I probably would never find the time or have the inclination these days to suffer the faint smell of urine and other bodily fluids that eventually ruined the experience for me as I got older (and the theaters more decrepit), I really miss the old grime and honky-tonk of the area!
That should be a question mark at the end of my last post, obviously. I haven’t seen “Porgy and Bess” since it was on network TV back in the ‘70’s. I was very young at the time and much of the film probably went over my head, but I remember being quite entertained by it. My memories of the film’s content, however, are quite dim.
Could it have anything to do with backlash due to what has been characterized by some as negative racial stereotyping in the film’s depictions of African-Americans.
Several films were advertised as the last regularly scheduled movie engagement at the Hall, but the last one was The Promise with Kathleen Quinlan, which ran during Easter of 1979. I have a souvenir program for the film Crossed Swords that had been the previous year’s Easter attraction at the Hall and on the cover of the booklet is a sticker that says “Final Attraction.” I remember my parents signed a petition outside of the Hall to prevent the pending closure of the great theater when we attended that show.
Here’s an image of that souvenir program cover for “Crossed Swords.”
Looks like that last comment did the trick, Warren. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for Bryan to keep track of all the useful updates buried in the avalanche of comments that hit this site on a daily basis. I’m sure that the best way to ensure information on CT is updated where necessary is to email Bryan directly with the pertinent changes.
Thanks for the nice comments, guys. I must thank SWCphotography for inspiring me to go back and capture more detail – based on the shots he posted recently. I have seen your photos before, bobosan. It did indeed close at the end of the summer in 1986.
I wonder what’s going on with plans for a 30th anniversary theatrical run of “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” here. According the theatre’s website, the documentary “The Rape of Europa” will start a run at the Paris on September 14th, right after the current engagement of “La Vie En Rose” ends its long run. No word on CE3K at all at the website.
Hey saps… I have mixed feelings about the new versions as well and have yet to see the movie in anything other than its original theatrical version. The narration of the original works so well with the film’s overall “noir” atmostphere. Sean Young looks as if she could have stepped right out of “Murder My Sweet” in this film – and Ford’s monotone reading of the narration (whether intended or not) nails the world weary voice-overs typical to the genre films of the ‘40’s and '50’s. I’m all for having the director of a film present his original and undiluted vision, however, so I look forward to finally seeing his final cut – and what better place than the Ziegfeld? And yes, a 70mm print would have been nice, but I think we’re in for a audio-visual treat with this upcoming engagement!
PKoch… I was at the theater just the other day and all looks status quo. It seems that the property is once again stuck in a political and economic quagmire. Last year, the developer submitted revised plans that were rejected by the community board and the prevailing thought is that they are looking to abandon plans and ditch the site due to the softening real estate market. At least that puts off the horrific “glass curtain” proposal for the site – however, if the theater is allowed to rot too much longer, all hope of a restoration of any kind (landmarked areas or otherwise) might be lost. At some point, some politician will have had enough and will push through a plan to level the site just to rid the area of the “eyesore.” Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
Meanwhile, I snapped some more photos. Start with this one and – if you have patience for my self-indulgence – continue by clicking “Next” for the other 15 or so new pics.
Just a P.S. on this thread… Jack Dempsey’s Restaurant was originally located across from the old Madison Square Garden on Eighth Avenue. I believe the location in the Brill Bldg on 49th and B'way was a more informal Bar and Cocktail Lounge annex to the original restaurant and – I believe – survived the original Eighth Avenue location by a number of years. Dempsey’s place closed for good in 1974 and shortly thereafter Colony moved in, relocating from another location in the City. Colony has been in business since 1948.
Hey Irv… We’ve all had our moments of confusion with these two theaters here on CT, but the theater described on this page was NOT in the Brill Building but on the block to the south between 49th and 48th and on the same side of Broadway as the Brill. The other Trans Lux – known as the Trans Lux Modern Theater – was located within the Brill building, but NOT where the Colony Records store is now situated. The theater was located in the northern end of the Brill Bldg, closer to 50th Street, while Colony records occupies the southern corner of B'way and 49th. Prior to Colony Records, the site had been the location of Jack Dempsey’s restaurant as well as the Paradise Cabaret, but never – as far as I know – a theater of any kind.
This is a rare image of the Love Theater marquee, circa 1977, taken from a video clip I found on YouTube. The source is an A&E documentary on Times Square.
This shot shows the action below the canopy of the Love’s marquee on 42nd Street from the very same clip.
I never knew the Times Square of the ‘20’s, '30’s, '40’s or '50’s so I can’t really relate to Mr. Astaire and others of or closer to his generation. I grew up knowing the Times Square of the late '70’s and '80’s. I understand that crime was a problem that needed to be solved and that a good deal of cleanup was required – but to completely sweep aside any semblance of its former attractions was uncalled for. But such is the way of real estate politics in NYC. It’s happening all over again right now in Coney Island (a place that cleaned up its act greatly in the last 20 years without sacrificing a lot of what made it such a unique and special destination).
Thanks, Joe! Looks like we have a match!
I moved the image here so that my album was correct – so the old link above no longer works.
Thanks again!
Yup. I caught that one when I first saw “Fast Times” in theaters way back when. “Kashmir” is on the album “Physical Graffiti.” What that has to do with the Madison, I have no idea! Perhaps you caught that film here, Panzera? LOL!
You hit the nail on the head, Al. I miss the honky-tonk atmosphere. The grinders on 42nd represented the last bastion of showmanship on the part of the motion picture exhibition industry. The very signage that clung to the entrances to each theater hawked passersby for their business with a flair and stylishness that has vanished from the moviegoing experience. Was the fare playing within lurid and exploitative? To be sure. This was not “grade A Hollywood product” for the most part – but it was cinema on the edge. Outlandish, independently made (or foreign) films that beckoned audience participation and therefore celebrated the very act of being part of a collective experience. Even the non-descript XXX mini-cinemas of the area that were converted from former store-fronts and office space did more to entice and intrigue potential customers than any of the full page ads one finds in the NY Times or the 30 second spots on TV today.
Hey folks… Was wondering if anyone would be able to confirm if this theater – depicted in a screen-shot from the documentary “Inside Deep Throat” – is the 10th Street Art Theatre? It sure looks like the marquee indicates a very similar name – I just can’t make-out that first word as “10th” or “Tenth”… but the rest of it definitely reads “St Art Theatre.”
Thanks.
Hey folks… I’m trying to identify this theater depicted in a screen-shot from the documentary “Inside Deep Throat.” Could the very colorful marquee belong to this theatre? The film on the marquee was released in early 1971, just to give an idea of the time-frame.
Thanks!
Can’t seem to be able to go too long here without someone making a disparaging remark about someone else. What a shame.
Schlemiel, chow, and Excalibur.
The problem with the new Times Square is that the area has become an ersatz and expensive “Main Street USA” version of its former self. So much rich and colorful history was bulldozed for glossy high-rise office towers or upscale/overpriced franchised eateries, boutiques and Disney-like attractions. Yes, all the screens lost in Times Square and 42nd Street were eventually replaced (and more than doubled) between 25 screens of the AMC Empire and the 13 across the street at the E-Walk – but with none of the charm, identity or unique programming and showmanship of the original movie houses in the area. We now have Madam Tussauds and have seen the return of Ripley’s Believe it Or Not… but at admission prices upwards of $23 per person? It’s very nice to have at least some of the old theaters on 42nd Street returned to their original glory – but of the 9 historic houses that dotted the Duece only 3 houses have legitimately been restored and put to good use (I refuse to count the dismantling and combination of the original Lyric and Apollo sites). And who can afford to go to a legitimate show these days anyhow? Tickets priced at $120 per seat are bad enough, but come October folks will have the privelege of being able to shell out as much as $450 a ticket for the new Mel Brooks musical version of “Young Frankenstien!”
Is there some good mixed in with the loss? Sure… I absolutely love the family theater that has been presented for reasonable admission prices at the gloriously restored New Victory Theater and the restoration job that Disney did at the New Amsterdam is nothing short of breathtaking. But for the most part, all of the rezoning and rebuilding was done for the tourists and the real estate developers – without a whole lot of thought given to the average New Yorker. And the glorious history of motion picture exhibition that was as much a part of the area’s history as legitimate theater was utterly and completly ignored in the “grand design.”
Just to beat a dead horse on this NYC geography issue in the ‘33 “King Kong”, let me just add two things. Firstly, it could be that Kong had rampaged through the City after breaking out of the theater in a random or circular manner. Secondly (and probably more to the heart of the matter), Hollywood has never much concerned itself with accurate geographic depictions of NYC. That probably goes for a lot of other cities as well, but since NY is the only city with which I’m intimately familiar I can only be sure of the inconsistencies in its many cinematic portrayals. “Independence Day” put the Empire State Building smack in the middle of Fifth Avenue (like Grand Central Terminal straddles Park Ave), for example. Speaking of Grand Central, “Men in Black” had Will Smith jumping off the auto-ramp that circumvents the Terminal onto a truck – which then turns a quick corner and winds up in front of the Guggenheim Museum (which is actually some 40 plus blocks uptown and a couple of avenues over).
Anyway, the Hippodrome is a very likely location for the theater in Kong, Lost… great suggestion!
Saps, you’re hilarious! I have a good idea what might be on top of the list of phrases “IFA” might be an acronym for! It seems IFA might have written his rant in his native tongue and then used an online translation servce for that idiom-challenged post.
Someone above asked about the location of the theater in which King Kong is presented to NYC crowds in the original 1933 version. The theater was never specified in the movie, and as I recall, you never catch a glimpse of any architectural elements. It is my understanding that the theater interior shots were filmed at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. The exterior shot of the “Eighth Wonder of the World” sign was likely of a miniature. In any event, I get the idea that the filmmakers intended the theater to be on Broadway in the Times Square area – even though it is not specified. It would seem to be the most logical assumption – and the theater is clearly not Radio City. Books I’ve read on the making of the Kong also indicate that it is the Sixth Avenue El that was recreated for the movie.
The 2005 remake actually recreates 1930’s era Times Square via CGI and places Kong on the stage of the fictional “Alhambra Theatre” which is depicted as being situated at the location of the real life RKO Palace Theatre on Seventh Avenue just off 47th Street.
Calling AlAlvarez!!! A member of CT (Hollywood90038) sent me some video he shot back around 1990/91 that shows a small porn theater around the corner from the Circus Cinema that was named “World Theater” per the marquee signage. This would have been on the south side of 49th Street just east of Broadway – adjacent to the RKO Video that was on that corner. I’ll have a screen-shot showing the small triangular marquee to post here tomorrow.
I’ve always been confused about the location of the more famous World 49th Street – thinking it was on the short block between 7th and B'way and on the south side of the street. Of course, that theater (the former Punch and Judy) was between 6th and 7th on the north side of 49th. Now I guess I know why – I must have had this marquee in my mind’s eye! I suppose once the original World theater was forced out by its landlords (Rockefeller Center) in favor of a mainstream house run by Embassy, perhaps the World management might have opened this small converted space as replacement? Any recollections out there?
Ha, I hadn’t even noticed that in my own clipping saps! I caught that one once or twice on the back-end of some double feature at the Liberty! Nothing like a horribly dubbed Nazi prison-camp S&M flick with plenty of nudity and violence to satiate the entertainment needs of a healthy American 16 year-old such as myself back in the early ‘80’s! I have such great memories of the old Duece! Much as I probably would never find the time or have the inclination these days to suffer the faint smell of urine and other bodily fluids that eventually ruined the experience for me as I got older (and the theaters more decrepit), I really miss the old grime and honky-tonk of the area!
That should be a question mark at the end of my last post, obviously. I haven’t seen “Porgy and Bess” since it was on network TV back in the ‘70’s. I was very young at the time and much of the film probably went over my head, but I remember being quite entertained by it. My memories of the film’s content, however, are quite dim.
Could it have anything to do with backlash due to what has been characterized by some as negative racial stereotyping in the film’s depictions of African-Americans.
Several films were advertised as the last regularly scheduled movie engagement at the Hall, but the last one was The Promise with Kathleen Quinlan, which ran during Easter of 1979. I have a souvenir program for the film Crossed Swords that had been the previous year’s Easter attraction at the Hall and on the cover of the booklet is a sticker that says “Final Attraction.” I remember my parents signed a petition outside of the Hall to prevent the pending closure of the great theater when we attended that show.
Here’s an image of that souvenir program cover for “Crossed Swords.”
Looks like that last comment did the trick, Warren. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for Bryan to keep track of all the useful updates buried in the avalanche of comments that hit this site on a daily basis. I’m sure that the best way to ensure information on CT is updated where necessary is to email Bryan directly with the pertinent changes.
Jeff, your a card! Thanks for the larf!
Thanks for the nice comments, guys. I must thank SWCphotography for inspiring me to go back and capture more detail – based on the shots he posted recently. I have seen your photos before, bobosan. It did indeed close at the end of the summer in 1986.
I wonder what’s going on with plans for a 30th anniversary theatrical run of “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” here. According the theatre’s website, the documentary “The Rape of Europa” will start a run at the Paris on September 14th, right after the current engagement of “La Vie En Rose” ends its long run. No word on CE3K at all at the website.
Hey saps… I have mixed feelings about the new versions as well and have yet to see the movie in anything other than its original theatrical version. The narration of the original works so well with the film’s overall “noir” atmostphere. Sean Young looks as if she could have stepped right out of “Murder My Sweet” in this film – and Ford’s monotone reading of the narration (whether intended or not) nails the world weary voice-overs typical to the genre films of the ‘40’s and '50’s. I’m all for having the director of a film present his original and undiluted vision, however, so I look forward to finally seeing his final cut – and what better place than the Ziegfeld? And yes, a 70mm print would have been nice, but I think we’re in for a audio-visual treat with this upcoming engagement!
See you guys there!
PKoch… I was at the theater just the other day and all looks status quo. It seems that the property is once again stuck in a political and economic quagmire. Last year, the developer submitted revised plans that were rejected by the community board and the prevailing thought is that they are looking to abandon plans and ditch the site due to the softening real estate market. At least that puts off the horrific “glass curtain” proposal for the site – however, if the theater is allowed to rot too much longer, all hope of a restoration of any kind (landmarked areas or otherwise) might be lost. At some point, some politician will have had enough and will push through a plan to level the site just to rid the area of the “eyesore.” Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
Meanwhile, I snapped some more photos. Start with this one and – if you have patience for my self-indulgence – continue by clicking “Next” for the other 15 or so new pics.
Just a P.S. on this thread… Jack Dempsey’s Restaurant was originally located across from the old Madison Square Garden on Eighth Avenue. I believe the location in the Brill Bldg on 49th and B'way was a more informal Bar and Cocktail Lounge annex to the original restaurant and – I believe – survived the original Eighth Avenue location by a number of years. Dempsey’s place closed for good in 1974 and shortly thereafter Colony moved in, relocating from another location in the City. Colony has been in business since 1948.
Hey Irv… We’ve all had our moments of confusion with these two theaters here on CT, but the theater described on this page was NOT in the Brill Building but on the block to the south between 49th and 48th and on the same side of Broadway as the Brill. The other Trans Lux – known as the Trans Lux Modern Theater – was located within the Brill building, but NOT where the Colony Records store is now situated. The theater was located in the northern end of the Brill Bldg, closer to 50th Street, while Colony records occupies the southern corner of B'way and 49th. Prior to Colony Records, the site had been the location of Jack Dempsey’s restaurant as well as the Paradise Cabaret, but never – as far as I know – a theater of any kind.
Hope that clarifies things a bit.
This is a rare image of the Love Theater marquee, circa 1977, taken from a video clip I found on YouTube. The source is an A&E documentary on Times Square.
This shot shows the action below the canopy of the Love’s marquee on 42nd Street from the very same clip.