Radio City Music Hall
1260 6th Avenue,
New York,
NY
10020
1260 6th Avenue,
New York,
NY
10020
116 people
favorited this theater
Showing 1,376 - 1,400 of 3,325 comments
Look over countless reviews of films that played at this magnificent theater and you will see that it was usually referred to as the Music Hall and only sometimes as Radio City Music Hall. For some reason, every reference today seems to be Radio City. Let’s try to call it by the name that is a reminder of its glory days.
That’s correct regarding POPPINS and BROOMSTICKS. I worked as a film booker for Buena Vista for 25 years, and Disney did not like the Scope process all that much. Just the few mentioned above were photogrpahed in the wide-screen process. BLACK CAULDRON and TRON were filmed in wide-screen as well, but not that many more.
Remember that the Cinemiracle process was owned by National Theatres Company before being sold to Cinerama. The West Coast opening was at the Chinese Theatre and East Coast was at the Roxy Theatre both owned and operated by Fox’s subsidiary theatre division National Theatres & Television, Inc. .
Thanks! My dvd’s are not really “letterboxed”, so I was wondering.
Mike: Those two were not in any widescreen process, but I can think of a few Disney productions that were: “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea” and “Lady and the Tramp” (CinemaScope), “Swiss Family Robinson” (Panavision), and “Sleeping Beauty” (Technirama 70).
I’ve already asked about the width of the screen at RCMH, regarding the big films that played there in Cinemascope / Panavision. My next question – were the later Disney films like POPPINS and BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS in any kind of widescreen process? I don’t know if Disney used any kind of widescreen on his films. Anybody? Thanks!
DavidM: Yes, masking hides a plethora of picture “sins”. Projector aperture plates always sit a little behind the film plane less they scratch the film and as a result, depending on the format and lens, project a “fuzz line” which the masking covers. To clarify the statement above, there was a little cropping in that the picture at the angle mentioned “keystones” and becomes trapezoidal (think the “Star Wars” chapter introductions). The plates are also cut as trapezoidal, but in the opposite direction thus giving a straight edge to the picture, but cutting off the image that would fall outside the straight line. The only director to call us on the issue was Bryan Forbes who did “The Slipper & The Rose”. He had placed his end credits close to the edge of the frame, and when they crawled the first and last letters of the lines were cropped until they got about a quarter of the way up the screen. He asked if something could be done, but we said only if the projectors were moved to the 1st Mezzanine! (One of the advantages of the current use of digital projectors is that they are on the 1st Mezzanine.)
These days there are computer programs for lens calculations that will figure the actual picture size for any degree of projection angle, so it isn’t necessary to go onstage with a tape measure anymore. We are a bit envious of that capability, as opposed to having to work with a lens slide rule calculator, a sectional drawing of the theatre and a ruler (that method did work pretty well though, and never crashed.)
I remember the Westinghouse Bulb well, and when they finished that meeting, I was able to fire up a projector and project a trailer on the back side of it just for fun. George LeMoine, who took photographs of the shows, was in the house and got a photo for me just as the “bulb” was deflating. I kept it in my desk for years.
Warren: you’re right about the deep curvature screens working best in houses of 2000 or so. I as told that at one point someone did come in to look at the possibility for the Hall. Perhaps it was the Cinemiracle staff, and they decided the Roxy would be a better place. The screen would have been in front of the proscenium and extend into the house. They might not have had to do too much to the house, since the 1st Mezzanine would have been an ideal place for the three booths. When Bob Jani started doing shows there in 1979 he looked at the possibilities of doing IMAX there, and I went to Toronto to talk to their executives. They would have put the screen in front of the light console, and would have extended it all the way up to the top of the 2nd cove, completely covering the 1st cove and proscenium. The insurmountable problem was that they couldn’t figure out a way to get rid of it after morning screenings in time to do a stage presentation in the afternoon or evening.
One movie that I saw at NYC’s renowned Radio City Music Hall was the film version of the musical “1776”, back in the early 1970’s. My friend and I found that film so boring that we both walked out in the middle of it—something that I generally never, ever do.
Almost 30 years later, I was fortunate enough, courtesy of some friends of mine who’d lived in my area but moved down to NYC many years before, to have the great honor of being present for the special 40th-year anniversary screening of the film “West Side Story”. What a Saturday night out that was! Shown on the great, big wide screen at RCMH, this great classic seems to take on a magical, almost 3 -dimensional quality. From the romancing Tony & Maria to the warring Jets & Sharks, all the characters seem to move much more fluidly, and in a much bigger, much more open space, plus the scenery seemed more expansive, and the richly-colored costumes and photography, the dancing, and the great Bernstein musical score all seemed more intense. Radio City Hall was always very handsome, and it still is. Sharing this great experience of RCMH, as well as the great film WSS with 5-6,000 other people was terrific. I’d driven down from the Bay State to the Big Apple for this, and it was all worth it. My friends and I had a wonderful time.
REndres: You are simply too fast! As I was typing in a post that you could shed some light on any projection quetions, there you are! I saw three of the four films MikeJW mentioned, with the exception of THE MUSIC MAN. I do not recall any cropping other than the bit of picture that would spill over on the masking. That’s normal, yes?
I also have an idea, since the Hall currently has so many dark days. If you ever want to go in and measure the screen, I’ll be happy to hold the end of the tape while you ride the hoist. Perhaps while you are up there, you could check on the status of the Doncho Curtain. Maybe we’ll get to see a Fire Drop! In my imagination, that would be better than Disneyland.
I love how people can look at the same movie and have completely different experiences. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing A BOY NAMED CHARLIE BROWN at the Music Hall. I love a little “cheese” with my “grand environments”.
Vito: In reference to a question you asked in May about rentals, I remember some of the events I took part in at the Hall. The Bar Mitzvah that REndres referred to was for the son of the head of Remco Toys. At least that was what I heard. In late 1979/early 1980, Westinghouse Electric rented the theater to introduce the Westinghouse Flight Bulb (their response to the Good Year Blimp?), a massive hot air balloon that they actually inflated in the auditorium. It was all quite dramatic, with both organ consoles playing as the lights came up on the balloon. Then, I did the off stage narration introducing the balloon and The Rockettes. They followed with a routine performed to a pre-recorded music track.
I was kind of surprised that Westinghouse went to all that expense the rent the theater and neglected to hire the orchestra. How’s THAT for an example of “cheesiness in a grand environment”?
MikeJW: The screen at the Music Hall is (give or take a couple of inches to account for grommets for lacing) is 35'high by 70' wide. It has movable top and side masking that flies with the sheet. Thus any format can be shown without cropping depending upon the lens focal length. There is a limit on the size you can get with a 35mm 1.85 image since if you blow it up too much there isn’t enough light. Thus our 1.85 image when I started there was roughly 50' wide by 27' high. The Scope image was also about 27' high but about 65' wide (by the time I started we were screening Scope with an optical track which reduced the width from the orignal 2.55:1 to 2.35:1. With mag tracks the image was probably the full width. I was able to get a full H. 35' on 1.85 70mm, since I had a bigger film image to work with, thus for “Lion King” we were 35' H x about
65' wide. 2.21 70 such as “Airport” was lensed to about 70' x 30'. The other pictures you mentioned were all 35mm “Scope”. The only caveat to all of this is that there is a slight elongation of the picture due to the roughly 19 degree downward projection angle. (I once got into an argument with a tech representative from the west coast when he walked in and looked at our screen which was set for 1.85 projection and said, “Ah 1.66”. I said no, and took him up to the booth where I pulled the aperture plate from the projector and showed him the 1.85 opening.) While I figured literally hundreds of projection screen sizes for everything from rock concert video to features, I never actually measured each actual screen h. since it would have meant going on stage with a Genii hoist and a tape measure and there was never enough time to have the picture sheet in long enough. We always tried to project the correct picture information as determined by SMPTE standards rather than have a “pure” screen masking aspect ratio which would have meant slightly cropping the top and bottom of the pictue. (The one exception was “Black Cauldron”, which was full width 70 and followed “Return To Oz” which was 1.85 70. The Disney rep so liked the full height 1.85 image he asked us to run “Cauldron” same way. To do that we would have needed a 73' w. screen, but Disney O.K.d the 1.5' crop at the ends of the picture. Later for the “Santa” footage which opened the Christmas Spectacular, I did have a 73' built. Hope this answers your question.)
Excellent question, Mike. I, too, am eager to see that answered.
As one who grew up from the 1940s to the 1960s, I always enjoyed total recall of what I saw where, and what the second feature was, if any, because each theater was unique and in some way the theater informed the experience of watching the show. (The multiplex experience, with generic bare-bones auditoria, cannot approximate even 10 percent of that sense.)
But as surely as one’s sense of “Custer of the West” was downgraded in a sense by being introduced to it in the squalor of a smelly 42nd Street grind house in the late 1960s, every movie I ever saw at RCMH informed the film with a sense of Music Hall majesty.
I cannot see even a minute of the many movies I first saw at RCMH (Mister Roberts, Indiscreet, Bullitt, The Promise, etc.) without having a sense of what a big deal they seemed when projected in that massive space.
Memorably, that sense of the Music Hall’s splendor felt at odds when the picture didn’t seem to belong there. I couldn’t quite put my finger on why “Play It Again, Sam,” which I’d seen the original cast perform on Broadway a few years earlier, felt a little lost in RCMH even though I liked and still like the picture.
But when I caught “A Boy Named Charlie Brown” at RCMH, there was no question that the theater dwarfed the cheesy animation and that the picture – however suitable for family audiences – had no business being projected in such a grand environment.
I have a question? If this has been covered earlier, I apologize:
As I recall from when I was a little boy in the 70’s, the RCMH screen didn’t seem too terribly wide. Yet, many wide-screen films played there – THE MUSIC MAN, MOLLY BROWN, MAME, AIRPORT – basically, anything from the mid-50’s and of course into the 70’s.
My question – was the screen indeed wide enough for these kind of films, or were the films “cropped” for the RCMH showings?
Thanks!
the organ is not in great disrepair, i’ve heard about a couple of keys….not hundreds an budget is not an issue and seen with the 70 million dollar renovation or all the maintence since the reno , new sound system, new carpet though out….
the organ is used at over 200 cmas shows a year as well as more than a dozen graduations for local colleges and universities
where is denpiano from bishop pipe organ ? i would like to here the real story
Re: the organ. I believe It’s not the age but the budget. If you don’t use it, you loose it. Also, they put in a 10 ton PA system, so re-mike the poor thing. For those who don’t know, the design of the auditorium sends the sound of the organ towards the stage and not the seats. They could use what is called tone shoots but they would need 8 of them and they are not going to cut into the walls for 8 large holes. So, use 8 mikes. Also I haven’t felt the organ shake the place in years. I don’t know if it’s from the air leaks or was that caused by the old PA system. I do know that 16 foot trombones will shake the place. The grand organ has them plus a lot more that should jiggle your eyeballs. This past christmas show, when the crowd was coming in I like to sit in the first row of the 2nd mez. and I could hardly hear the organ. Up until the end of the 70’s you knew the organ was playing. One other thing I forgot to mention in my prior post. While I was being interviewed I made a big stink about a young trumpet player in the orchestra. In the middle of a rockettes number with the orchestra in site. This kid with an orphan annie hair-cut takes a big yawn and lifts both hands high over his head. Everyone could see this. I told them that it took my attention away from the stageshow and that I bet in the old days when the elevator went down he would have been asked to leave.
REndres: It is a real gift to have you here. Your posts are quite informative and I seem to be learning proper stage terminology, thank you. We actually met on a few occasions many years ago. I hope we have the opportunity to meet again in the near future.
Your recent posts have shed some light on my complaints about the current state of presentation at the Hall. I wholeheartedly agree with the need for safety standards designed to protect staff and patrons of the Hall or any theater. I support any organization’s desire to prevent accidents or fatalities. I had not heard about the stagehand injured from falling into the pit. I also want my Rockettes in a straight line, not scattered about due to a collapsing staircase. On the other hand, I wonder if there might be some way to ensure proper safety measures without sacrificing the “illusions†inherent in a Music Hall Spectacular.
I gather from my pictures that there is not much space between where the Contour Curtain hangs on the deck and the edge of the pit elevator shaft. Does it have to be pulled that far downstage in order to bring the “Santa†sheet in? I am also convinced that the 1999 Contour Curtain is made of a more lightweight material. I do not recall it drifting upstage like it does now. It also looks like it does not drape properly when at “show trimâ€, the standard height for a Stage Show.
The crews at the Hall have always been excellent at their jobs. I recall during the ‘79 Christmas Show that when the orchestra “click track†began, the show went up at either 11AM, 2:30 or 7:30 PM and came down precisely 90 minutes later. Everyone had to be on their marks. There was nary a glitch in the system. Of course, there WAS that day I went out to dinner with some of my co-workers after the matinee ended. I had a little too much to drink with my meal. It was easy for the wiseguys in the house right sound booth to notice my inebriated state. I assumed they decided to be practical jokers and not turn up the house level on my wireless mike, prior to my “Welcome to Radio City…†spiel. This led to some onstage embarrassment and one minor expletive heard by the entire audience. My face turned fifteen shades of red above and beyond the effects of the booze. I could have been a special effect myself, matching the cove lighting. Pink faced to red faced to blue faced to total blackout, but I digress.
I attended both the 2007 ATOS Organ Concert and the Christmas Show. On both occasions the organ sounded fine to me, although that may be a testament to the talents of the various organists. Listening for imperfections is not my expertise.
I have one last note in this absurdly long post. I have always been as Mr. Endres says, an “early arriverâ€. I love sitting in the auditorium when it is nice and quiet, just before the crowds arrive. The first notes of the organ still make my diaphragm rumble. From 1964 to 1978 I always sat in “my seatâ€; at the time it was Row AA 313 or 314. I was four years old in 1964. After I discovered there was an orchestra down there, I always looked over the apron into the pit. I assure you I never fell in. I guess death by band car is not my destiny.
The bandcar still does move unless the video wall blocks an entrance from the third elevator. What DavidM was referring to was the positioning of the band car at the top of the elevator shaft before the show. It does go back down to load the orchestra on, and then does come back up for the overture, but if you’re an early arriver the illusion is lessened. That’s probably to protect the audience as much as the staff. Kids love to look over the edge of the pit elevator shaft when they hear the orchestra tuning up below. Can you imagine the furor if one of them toppled over the edge? Then the Hall would be blamed for not caring about audience safety.
I don’t know why the organ needs major work. It was refurbished before I left. The toy counter was augmented with digital effects since replacement for the original Wurlitzer instruments had to be custom made and with digital effects the organ can be augmented with files from other theatre organs around the country. They also gained the ability to move the consoles around which really interested me. I’d love to see them playing a silent film with both consoles coming up on the pit elevator to stage level. It would be an interesting change, and replicate the majority of consoles on pit lifts around the country. Perhaps the Bishops can comment — that’s another multi-generation family at the Hall who have been caring for the organ for a long time.
I also thought of saying just what TheatreOrgan just said —people are more litigious these days. (By the way — the railings on the sidewalks around the Center at 50th & 6th and on 5th Ave. weren’t to protect people. Rudy put them in to facilitate the movement of traffic onto those avenues. While we wished they would go away, the electric crew that changes the letters on the Music Hall marquee says they actually make sign changes safer.)
So REndres is that the reason that the orchestra doesn’t move all over the place as it once did and it never will again?
And the organ needs major work? They let it get into such a stage of repair or is it age and it needs a major restoration?
I too would like to thank all of you who continue to provide the wonderful insight of the behind the scenes operation of this great theatre! I share the same anticipation as you LeonLeonidoff when attending a theatre where the orchestra and organ are on lifts. If I had my way, I’d have a lift installed for my Reuter pipe organ at church and enter the sanctuary that way while I played the overture. . er…prelude! :-D Theatre presentation, whether it be in an auditorium or a sanctuary, evokes emotion from an audience.
Perhaps, Leon, people aren’t necessarily more stupid today, as they are litigious?
Actually crew at Radio City is extremely talented and competent. The Local #1 members have been there through (now) up to three generations, and in many cases grow up, marry, and have children who in turn grow up and join the crew there. I was in awe of both their ability and their dedication to the house. People don’t realize how dangerous any stage is. I remember the crew talking about a stagehand that was killed in a fatal fall at the Palace Theatre during the run of a legit musical. Stages with elevators up the ante. Even in the days of the movie stage show policy, I remember hearing about a dancer who got a toe cut off at the Hall, and if the story isn’t apocryphal, lost a lawsuit because he had been warned not to stand that close to the elevator while waiting to go on. That wouldn’t happen with OSHA today. Indeed, Leon Leonidoff had a staircase onstage with the Rockettes standing on it collapse during a rehearsal, scattering Rockettes all over the stage while he yelled at them to get up and go on with the rehearsal. That story made the national wire services and I read about it while still in Illinois.
As I mentioned above, the super spectacular award shows raised the ante. There you have additional crew to supplement the house crew, and an enormous amount of material being moved into the theatre under tight time constraints. The stage elevators are used to move the material into storage spaces both in the wings and on the two lower levels. In years past a routine developed because the format was unchanging. With the concerts and other types of shows, there is a house crew working with a road crew, and no time to develop familiarity with some of the hazards of working on a stage with four moving elevators. A roadie once claimed that a religious broadcaster in the Midwest (no—I have no idea who) who had an elevator stage and cut a choir boy in half in an accident. Well maybe — but I also remember Martyn (?) Greene, a Gilbert & Sullivan performer who lost a leg in an elevator move in Japan. IATSE has initiated a series of safety programs for its members that are in place even in my home local in Illinois which handles arena shows that are bigger than Radio City’s. Remember the shows are incredibly more complex than they used to be. Its probably a tribute to those in charge at the Hall (and certainly to the crew) that there aren’t more serious accidents.
It is like the the railings they put up at corners all over Rockefeller center.
I am sure in the Music Hall’s heyday the crowds were much worse filling the theater 4 times a day with 6,000 people and then spilling out all over the Center with traffic just as bad.
Also the Music Hall should have a trained production staff at all times. 45 years of film and stage show and I never heard of such a serious accident.
Are people that idiotic today? They can’t stand on a curb or have the orchestra up when production activity occurs?
One of the joys of the Music Hall was seeing the orchestra come from out of nowhere with the musicians tuning up. It gave a wonderful sense of anticipation.
Why is the stupidity of those in charge rewarded?
REndres – thanks again for all of your comments re: the technical requirements needed to stage events. I’ve learned an incredible amount of information from your posts.
DavidM: I suspect the reason the bandcar is in a raised position prior to the start of the show goes back a decade or so when a stagehand (who I believe was also the Presiden of Local #1) was severely injured in a fall into the pit. The “Santa” sheet for the opening of the show on 70mm film lies in between the contour and (I believe) the house picture sheet. Originally that pipe held the gold traveller that was taken out for “Snow White” so they could use it for a scenic piece. To bring the Santa sheet in, the contour had to be breasted back over the footlights since it drifts upstage due to the house draft. The deck crew would stand in a row onstage and move the contour back so the sheet could be lowered. At one performance the stagehand backed up too far and went over the edge into the pit. I believe his injuries made him a quadrapalegic if I remember correctly. We had had several injuries around that time that were severe enough to involve OSHA, and they insisted changes be made. Probably keeping the bandcar just below stage level was one. Another was lowering a fence behind the Rockettes as they moved from the third elevator to the second to prevent a fall if one of them accidentally backed up as the third elevator was being lowered behind them. When the Hall was in the movie/stage show policy, injuries were probably fewer because everyone was there all day almost every day, and the routine, once set, remained the same. When the big award shows started coming in there was less familiarity with the stage, and the elevators were being moved bringing pieces in and taken to the shop or basement levels while the crew would be working on the next elevaor over. OSHA put a stop to that. Now all activity is stopped on stage when an elevator moves. Even the ledge in front of rear projection now has a safety line across it, and when we worked up there we were supposed to be tied to it. As a practical matter, the changes may not result in the most impressive stagecraft, but they may prevent fatalities.
Mr. Leonidoff, by reading your description, I can see it in my mind. It gives me goose bumps. To everyone one else, if you never saw this, you really missed the real RCMH. Buy the way, I wonder why the conductor does not use the lighted baton anymore? They haven’t used it for years.
Thanks, Bob! You are probably right in your assumption about the Fire Curtain. Even though it is made of that unmentionable material, I would love to see it used today. I am certain that will not happen.
Thanks also for the story about Fred Keller’s office. I love knowing any “gremlin” stories about the Hall. I remember that office well. Jane Morrison occupied that space in late 1979 and it was the office in which I was hired.
I am somewhat critical of the “presentation” quality of the present shows. I mean show, of course. To walk in and see the bandcar at just below stage level prior to showtime takes away one element of suprise. No more, “Wow, an orchestra just appeared out of nowhere!” Stagehands and techies mulling about onstage prior to the show starting. Oh well, that’s enough of that for today.
Bob, have you noticed that the curtain is a bit “lighter” these days. I am sure it is made from a lighter material, but it does not seem to hang like it used to. When I attend the Christmas Show, I can see the stage underneath the bottom.
My home is like a museum of the Music Hall. Among my collection, I have hundreds of pictures, souvenirs, programs, etc. I have a original edition of the New York Times from December, 1932 with the reviews of Opening Night. I also have one of the brass “Program Light” plates. A 6' by 2' remnant of what I am told is the original 1932 auditorium carpet hangs in my bedroom.
OK so you are talking about the Leonidoff Nativity which started the stage portion of the show.
It began beautifully with the orchestra rising from below and the chimes playing the first notes of Silent Night with the lights in the arches turning a deep blue in the darkeness of the house. The chorus in their peaasant garb would appear on the choral steps and sing Silent Night. The curtain would rise depicting a night sky and an Angel would appear and sing Oh Holy Night. The choristers would descend to the stage staring in wonder at her. They would then join her at the end at which point she would disappear and the star of Bethlehem would appear and travel across the sky. The chorus would exit following and the orchestra would start a fanfare intruction to Oh Come all Ye Faithful. The minute the carol itself would start the last of the chorus would have left the stage and the march to Bethlehem would begin. At the end when the last person left the stage the sky would turn transparent revealing all the crowd kneeling before the manger and then would rise as the magi entered bearing there gifts. They then would kneel as the curtain covering interior of the manger would become transparent and rise revealing Mary, Joseph and the baby. These final moments would be accompanied by the music you are citing at which point the magi would raise their gifts in homage, the orchestra would swell along with chorus, thousands of light bulbs would flash and the Music Hall curtain would descend.
I think there might have been times when the curtain would go back up for a few moments to reveal again the tableaux in it’s quiet stillness. I’m not a hundred percent sure though.
Then the orchestra would rise to it’s full height and play Sleigh Ride while the sets were being changed(I always think of the old Christmas shows when I hear it during the holidays)
and then would then descend and the curtain would go up on the secular portion of the show.