Criterion Theatre

I’m a big fan of Dolly but some of it even I find cloying and silly. Michael Crawford at times threatens to torpedo the film single handedly with a to put it kindly mentally challenged Cornelius and even the wonderful Danny Lockin overdoes the naïve youth. But this is Kelly’s fault. It doesn’t help that Kidd’s choreography is at times more muscle exertion than the inspired dance of Band Wagon and Seven Brides. The Waiters' Gallop…oy.

Still much of it is pretty great with one of the great production designs of all time. What do you expect with Irene Sharaff and DeCuir given an unlimited budget? I’ve never gotten the over produced objections. Have you ever seen pictures of 14th Street and parades at the beginning the 20th Century? And this is a big splashy musical so we’re talking the scale of DW Griffith’s Babylonia here.

And yeah Streisand kills it. Funny Girl hadn’t even been released yet and she confidently leads a cast of thousands as if she were leading the storming of the Bastille. Her confidence is kind of scary. And she’s at her vocal peak taking a role not known for its vocal demands and turning it into a musical tour de force.

The bluray is a stunner. I always get a kick out of seeing the fibers and textures of the fabric of the costumes and seeing what I always thought were Dolly’s white cloth arm length gloves in the Harmonia Garden are actually calfskin.

Hello-

to MSC77 many thanks for answering my Denver question. but I’m wondering if you would happen to know if any of the roadshow films which opened if the seven Tines Square theaters that the studios used in the 1952-1972 period did not have souvenir programs.

Hello-

i have asked this question in the past to which i wonder
if my fellow posters have any additional info. i refer to Sept. 1952-Dec. 1972 as the prime roadshow period. now i didn’t go to every roadshow film in this time period but every one i did go to had a souvenir program for sale in the lobby. therefore does anyone know of a roadshow engagement in this period that did not have a souvenir program?

bigjoe – the faded print the article references is the roadshow version.

vindanpar – The SP Blu-ray is reasonably clear in describing it contains two versions and it does not claim to have “restored the roadshow version”:

The 157 minute “theatrical version” (should probably have said “general release version”, but “theatrical” is also accurate since the GR version is the one most people saw theatrically).

The 172 minute “roadshow version” (in the text Special Features listing they say “extended road show version” but they obviously meant “extended from the 157 minute version”). The grid below correctly states “172 minutes (Roadshow version)”

Nowhere on the package (at least the one I have from 2008) does it state anything that should make you say this: “Fox makes you think you are getting”.

If you want to more about Blu-ray’s, you might want to join us at the HomeTheaterForum.com

Sorry about the 245 minutes. I meant 2hours and 45 minutes but as noted it is exactly 2 hours and 52 minutes.

Still the article raises more questions than it answers and the most recent bluray is highly deceptive. I haven’t opened it yet but from the outside it is unclear as to what you are getting. They say ‘Theatrical Version.’ What’s that exactly? Oh it’s the second run general release cut version (which was cut probably for commercial reasons as in getting in more performances per day than sensitive subject matter.) But they don’t say that. Second disc is Extended Road Show version. Well isn’t that a Theatrical Version as well? And did they extend the road show version? You mean it’s more than 172 minutes?

Sorry this release is sloppy and that In 70mm article is a mess. “We created a new interpositive from the original negative,” Original negative? Does that mean the complete Todd AO version? Samples from the Danish road show version that ran 4 years? Where’s the rest of it? But they found a print in an archive in England? What happened to those Todd AO reels I saw delivered in the lobby of the Warner Cinerama? Did they end up in England? Fox treated its legacy very badly.

South Pacific deserved a complete restoration of the entire roadshow film which Fox makes you think you are getting. If I had looked closer I would have realized they were pulling a fast one and not have purchased it.

There is no such thing as a “245 minute version” of South Pacific.

The main feature on the South Pacific Blu-ray is the Fox FotoKem restoration of the general release version, running 2:37, from the original 65mm ToddAO elements as discussed in your link. It looks incredible on the disc, one of the half-dozen best that I have. The ‘roadshow version’ runs 2:52 and is presented as a bonus feature; to reconstruct it, they took the master of the restored general release version and cut in the missing scenes from that faded print mentioned in the article. Some of the reconstructed scenes look good, others less so.

And did Fox get the Magna production film elements? Because if they did that would be a disaster. And considering their tragic handling of their film legacy it explains why there hasn’t been a stateside Todd AO restoration. The original elements are probably under some southern California freeway. Did Oklahoma survive because Goldwyn productions got their hands on it?

Hello-

to Al A.– thanks for your reply. I saw GMC during its roadshow rum at the RKO Palace, PYW during its roadshow run at the Loews State 1&2. I only saw Cleopatra and TFOTRE at neighborhood theaters. I would have especially liked to have seen Cleopatra during its roadshow run at the Rivoli on its huge curved Toad-AO screen.

to vindanpar- the currently available Blu-ray disc set of South Pacific contains both the general release print which is the one most people know and the original roadshow version. but the roadshow version is a reconstruction not a restoration. the roadshow version was reconstructed by inserting the eliminated 15? mins. using b&w-ish sepia footage from I guess a work print. to which my question- are you saying the Blu-ray disc available in Denmark was a full complete original roadshow version and not the “reconstructed” one available in the U.S.?

I’d give anything to see Fall of the Roman Empire in a theater. I managed to see Barabbas in one which I never thought would happen. A wonderful but very bleak film. I imagine it did not do well on roadshow and very few people seem to remember it.

No Vindanpar, I never saw Todd AO and I think the travelogue novelty on the big screen was better suited for the 1950’s. I found the fake sets in “SOUTH PACIFIC” impossible to imagine being anywhere except inside a theatre. “ICE STATION ZEBRA” also loses its charm on TV.

I liked “GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS”, “PAINT YOUR WAGON”, “CLEOPATRA”, “THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE”, “ICE STATION ZEBRA” and “PORGY AND BESS”. All have been trashed over the years. I disliked “AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS”, “SOUTH PACIFIC”, and “LAWRENCE OF ARABIA”, all classics today. I found the latter beautiful to watch and about an hour too long.

Per Wikipedia: “Paint Your Wagon” became Paramount’s sixth largest success up to that point (and the sixth highest-grossing film of 1969) when it earned $31.6 million over its release, although the earnings never offset the cost of production and marketing.