There isn’t any contact info on her Flicker profile. Isn’t it kinda strange that the bottom and left of the marquee in that picture is in Black & White?
Simon, The Ziegfeld has no waterfall curtain. Only two travelers. The main curtain matches the side pieces, and the title curtain is white, unfortunately the latest title curtain is much too sheer. The original title curtain, was only sheer enought to project a picture through, and still appeared solid under normal contitions. This new one reveals exactly what is behind it, which makes its use for an overture less effective.
I agree with your idea, Mark… I think the Majestic Crest AND the National are both the most noteworthy theatres in West LA, and any idea that could help them sounds good to me. Easy for us to say from the sidelines, huh? For all we know Robert Bucksbaum and Tom Daugherty already know each other.
I’ve been told the new Landmark in west LA has a 4K, so apparently there is 4K in Los Angeles, but apparently it’s not enough of an improvement or event to warrant much press or even word of mouth.
Kinds leads up back to the idea that Digital is still not yet up to the quality of a well-made * 70mm or even 35 print. * well-made prints of any gauge are a rarity in these days of fast, cheap and quick print distribution.
Has anyone seen a particularly impressive 4K presentation?
Woody Allen used to have all his pictures open at the tiny Baronet on Third Avenue because he liked to see the lines around the block. I think the last time I stood in line in NY was at the Beekman, and Jerry Seinfeld was a couple people ahead of me. Ah, the Beekman…
It seems from Howard’s pictures that they have removed or disabled the front curtain warmer lights at the Ziegfeld. Probably so they could run the cheesy slides. Sad.
Does it bother anyone else that the 2/3 of the space under the Ziegfeld’s marquee is a driveway for a parking garage? Such a theatrical place, then a garage! I know how vital parking is, especially in NY, but really, having it dominate the entrance kinda spoils the look. Of all the places to put a garage entrance, under the Marquee?? Still miss the place, though.
Wow, imagine someone spending the money for that when the theatre’s days are supposedly numbered… thanks for the info, and please check to see if they took Mann’s name off the big roof sign.
So the big new sign that they just paid to have made does not say National WESTWOOD Theatre, does it? Don’t you think that big expensive sign would be enough proof for Mr. Cinema Treasures to change the listed name here to the name current proprietor obviously wants? He is paying to put “NATIONAL THEATRE” in the indie theatre list AND on the big sign, and has chosen NOT to call it the National Westwood. It Doesn’t say National Westwood anywhere that the actual operators control. Yet Cinema Treasures insists on adding that word to the name… I believe Michael Coate made this same point months ago.
they do allow candy, bottled water sometimes, and the ushers have to keep eyes peeled for cups coming in. the way some people try to hide drinks… like they think they’re the first to roll up their program around it. some places allow drinks if they want the money badly enough.
This I remember vividly. I was taken to see FIDDLER ON THE ROOF on Broadway as kid. My first B'way show. (Tzeitel was played by Bette Midler, btw) The only liquid refreshment available was little bitty cartons of Orangeade or Lemonade, I think there was a limited choice of candy. Radio City Music Hall in the 60s didn’t have popcorn either, no place to pop and serve it… so they had Cracker Jacks. Today’s Legit houses sell sodas and cocktails but most don’t allow them to be brought to the seats. Candy is sold, but the choice is generally limited to things that won’t make much mess or noise.
Popcorn history dates at least as far back as ancient Egypt, where it’s been found in the pyramids. I think most food experts will say that popcorn can be a healthy snack, as long as it is handled properly. The variation found in theatres, stadiums, etc, is substantially altered by the orange oil it’s popped in. If it’s very yellow and has a buttery smell when being popped, use with caution. Regular popcorn is not naturally yellow. The real thing works well for me, actually helps me lose weight if I reach for popcorn instead of fatty snacks.
I came late to the microwave popcorn trend and got a kick out of how “easy” it was… However the talk about hydrogenation gave me pause, and I knew there was a lot of fatty stuff in there… One day I was working on a TV show where craft services had put a ouy bowl of fresh stovetop popped popcorn – it was a big hit with all of us who hade forgotton how good the real thing could be. But what about the burning, the unpopped kernels, etc? I looked around and found the stovetop poppers that had a stirring mechanism like at the movies. You need very little oil in these, most every kernel pops, and it doesn’t stick to the pan.
Use Smart Balance oil (formulated to lower cholesterol), Theatre Spice, a good popcorn flavoring (withough any junk) from Schnider’s Gourmet World in Canada, Smart Balance fat/calorie free butter spray (Great buttery taste) and you get a pretty healthy snack that literelly reminds me of the hot buttered popcrn I got as a kid at the movies.
I am so used to this stuff that the heavy oil and flavoring used in theatres (especially ArcLight) makes me a little naseous. Kernel Seasons also makes a shake-on butter flavor. So once you get the knack of real popping, it’s a guilt free and pretty healthy snack.
I’m aware there were different versions of 3D and different glasses. I was not talking about any era at all. I only made a passing mention of a few gimmics to point out that they were brought in for one feature and not part of the permanent equipment. None of that has much to do with my original point, which is that technology serves best by enabling, augmenting or enhancing technology, rather than replacing it. It was at that point that Veyoung pulled us off-topic to debate on unrelated details.
Well I think you’re exaggerating quite a bit. I was at the Capitol in person, not looking at a picture, and observant enough to notice details like the fishnet pattern on the screen, the unique way they used the wide space behind the orchestra booth, the top of the ornate old proscenuim peeking over the top of the Cinerama drapes, and a steep incline of divans hidden behind a wall of heavy drapes at the back of the balcony that want all the way up to the original booth… I do remember seeing the A and C booths, but they didn’t make as strong an impression on me as all the other details, so I’ll still have to say that I didn’t find the booths intrusive, at all, and they were certainly covered to match the rest of the theatre.
Early Cinerama requirements were that the seats, walls, drapes, carpet all had to be the signature “Cinerama Red” so the booths would cetainly not be nearly as obvious as you suggest. Tech setup specs for Cinerama were very flexible in the placement of the booths and even the shape and curve of the screen.
There are pictures showing that Cinemiracle used three projectors in the same booth, shooting off mirrors, one of the distinguishing differences from Cinerama, in that they did NOT require 3 booths.
Much if what I’ve said is documented in pictures and text at the American Widescreen Museum – www.widescreenmuseum.com
Since all this has nothing to do with the Ziegfeld, I’m going to end the discussion at this point. This is all stuff that I should be covering and debating over on CinemaSightlines.
So back to topic, Being in LA, which seems to have a few more surviving single screen showcase theatres, I still miss the Ziegfeld, and especially envy the retro programming. I wish them al the success in the world and hope someone out here will get the idea, but I doubt it because the ArcLight is way too arrogant to make the effort that Clearview’s Ziegfeld staff seems to be.
No reason the NY National couldn’t have concealed the speakers the same way they were in the LA National.
“There was not a single US Cinerama installation prior to that in which the three booths were not placed on or just above the orchestra floor and visible.”
Yeah there was. The Eckel in Syracuse was adapted for Cinerama, and had “bubble booths” tucked into the rear corners of the walls at least 15 feet off the ground. I’ve been involved in a lot of Cinerama related research and I’ve been in several of the theatres. I have indeed been in theatres that were adapted for Cinerama, where the side booths were not conspicuous at all. I was in what some consider the ultimate CInerama venue, the Loew’s Capitol in NY, and saw no speakers on the walls, nor were the booths that noticeable. Sure you could spot them if you looked for them, but they did not intrude into, or alter, the very theatrical atmosphere of the theatre.
My point is that the booths are not technology themselves,they are part of the building, and they could blend into the decor of a theatre more than black boxy speakers hung all over a wall. Speakers can indeed be concealed and just as effective. Booths have to be there but can at least blend into the decor like any other part of the building. There is a difference between visible and conspicuous.
Now back to the topic of the Ziegfeld… It was indeed a modern theatre trying to evoke the feeling of a movie palace (there was even a coat check room) but it has a definitely theatrical atmosphere, where you could have all the advanced technology you want without it standing out from the decor.
And it is a very memorable venue mainly because IT IS theatrical, rather than a bland asymmetrical room with a bare screen and chunky speakers all over the walls. (they may have hung speakers in the Ziegfeld later on, but with some effort any new speakers could have been concealed as they were in the beginning, and in any event this theatre is SO theatrical that even the speakers hung on the wall, are just blemishes on a very theatrical theatre. When you think of a movie you saw at the Ziegfeld, you remember where you saw it, but who remembers they saw a movie at the ArcLight or Loew’s Village VII?
No reason for the technology to call attention to itself when it can be concealed. It detracts from the overall experience, like having no curtain. Those are just two of the many details that have degraded the moviegoing experience into nothing more than a forgettable bland room.
Instead of enhancing the experience with showmanship and theatrical atmosphere, today’s emphasis on showing off the hardware makes the movie experience utterly forgettable, with not much left to distinguish it from TV at home. Plex rooms are much like a bigscreen TV set, with a blank screen where the picture just pops on like a TV.
Only reason for speakers hanging on the walls is if the surround sound was added AFTER the theatre was already built. Even in later installations, the speakers can and have (in roadshow houses, for example) been concealed or made much less conspicuous than black boxes hanging all over the wall.
Like the cardboard red-green 3D glasses, Fantasound, Smell-o-Vision, MegaSound, “Quintophonic” sound and other gimmicks, Sensurround was brought in for one film at a time and not part of the permanent equipment. Later on, the newer Ziegfeld (built with concealed surrounds) was able to get the same sub bass vibrating effect with built-in invisible speakers (most memorably for the premiere run of Close Encounters, when Neary’s truck goes crazy). The effect was amazing, much better than Sensurround because it wasn’t a random loop of rumbling. The audience response was great.
Cinerama was handled in every way like a legit theatre event, and every effort was made to make the elements blend into the background. Three booths needn’t be any more intrusive than one is and I’ve been in many theatres where they were barely noticeable. They were part of the permanent setup and therefore as easy to cover as any other wall of the theatre.
The National theatre in LA did not have speakers on the wall when it opened. Check the original photos on the National page at CinemaSightlines.com. It was built for 70mm roadshows, among other things, and fully equipped for full surround without showing the hardware.
So the only reason for one’s sensibility not to mind technology replacing showmanship instead of enhancing it, is that one hasn’t had enough exposure to refined presentation to really miss it… which is a big reason why many people don’t like to go out to movies anymore. The experience isn’t grand enough to make patrons feel special (and behave better) and want to come back regardless of the film. Aside from a big screen, there isn’t much to draw us out.
CT’s description of the Ziegfeld is faulty on 3 points:
1) built near the Sixth Avenue (aka Ave of the Americas) location of the original Ziegfeld Theatre (a legit house). The current Ziegfeld is the second building in from the corner, the original was at the corner. Not really a few hundred feet away, actually just behind where the original stood.
2) a balcony is traditionally a section that OVERHANGS part of the main floor. This theatre has raised section BEHIND the rest of the seats. One could call it a Mezzanine I suppose, because that word doesn’t necessarily indicate an overhang. Back in the day, this (along with the Beekman, Sutton, Cinema I, etc.) was called “stadium style,” which then meant one section raised behind another.
3) the correct spelling for the name is Z I E G F E L D T H E A T R E. Ziegfeld is commonly misspelled as Zeigfeld, and classier theatrical and film venues were spelled Theatre. (note the sign on the building). The Americanized spelling – theater – used to seem more proletarian or less impressive. Still does, to a lot of us.
FWIW: the original surounds at the Ziegfeld were all hidden from view, and still very effective (technology in a theatre should not – and need not – intrude on decor)…
and, one mustn’t confuse Loew’s Astor Plaza on 44th steet with the old Astor Theatre on Broadway, which was torn down (along with the Victoria and 3 legit theatres, to make way for the Marriot Marquis hotel) several years after the LAP was opened.
By the way, both Travolta’s inital star vehicles (FEVER and GREASE) first opened at the Loew’s State1 on Broadway. Grease ran some time later at the Ziegfeld as a special engagement.
Additional detail about the divisions of the Oswego Theatre, from my own memory augmented by a report from a current local resident…
Seating upstairs and downstairs was originally in three sections, center, right and left, and there were four aisles, allowing access to each section from both sides.
The original Balcony was separated from the main floor by putting a wall up to the ceiling from the edge of the balcony. What used to be the front section of the balcony (about 4 rows) became a little pit with lights on the floor aiming upward at the curtains. Plain curtains on the front wall right and left. The screen, directly in front of the center seating section, had about a 3 foot platform in front of it and curtains in cream and burgundy stripes about a foot wide. Years later, when the Balcony was subdivided, they did not cut it down the middle. On the right side, just about a third of the balcony’s width was sectioned off, using a tiny portion of the original projection booth that was the rewind/cutting room when I worked there in the 70s. It already had a tiny window in it and that’s where the projector throws from. I was in there once for National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation, (1989) and was surprised that they fit a projector in that small space. I imagine the platter for it is in the main area of the booth, where the Projectionist’s Viewing window was. At that time i believe the two bottom rooms and the two side rooms had not been added yet.
The main auditorium got its own booth in the 1972 split. The downstairs booth was in the back of the center section, and went from the left center aisle to the right center aisle, and from the lobby wall to the edge of the balcony.
Two additional screens occupy the back of the main house, going from the left center aisle to the left wall, and from the right center aisle to the right wall. Both rear rooms extend past the Balcony overhang, one almost halfway to the main screen, the other not so much. Both have projection booths in the rear, that throw to screens toward the front. I would not be surprised to learn that the original seats are still in their original locations within the two back rooms, however since these rooms go straight to the wall on both sides, that means there is no longer access to the wall aisles of the main house from the lobby. It is very likely that a couple extra rows of seats were removed from the rear of the left and right sections of the main house to allow access to the wall aisles.
The last two screens are in an addition built onto the side, occupying about ¼ of what was an unpaved parking lot for as far back as I can remember.
Sound has been upgraded in the main house by simply hanging speakers on the walls, but the original screen (still tilted backward from the early days when the projector was upstairs) has not been upgraded or even touched, nor have the two sets of stage curtains been used in years. The mechanism for the rear stage curtains had broken by the time I worked there, so all I had to work with was three switches: front curtain, house lights and footlights. There were no dimmers upstairs or downstairs. I’m told the front curtain hasn’t been used in about 20 years.
There’s a shot of the Boyd playing STAR! on their site. If I’d seen that earlier It would be on the DVD/Laserdisc. Check out a movie called THE PROJECTIONIST for some shots of the NY premiere of STAR! at the Rivoli in NY.
There isn’t any contact info on her Flicker profile. Isn’t it kinda strange that the bottom and left of the marquee in that picture is in Black & White?
Does ANYONE have photos of this or other movie theatres they would like to see featured online?
LOST MEMORY: can I contact you for permision to feature that great photo of the Crest in an appropriate place?
I always thought the most famous intermission trailers were done by Filmack, though I’m not sure where they’re located.
LOL!
Simon, The Ziegfeld has no waterfall curtain. Only two travelers. The main curtain matches the side pieces, and the title curtain is white, unfortunately the latest title curtain is much too sheer. The original title curtain, was only sheer enought to project a picture through, and still appeared solid under normal contitions. This new one reveals exactly what is behind it, which makes its use for an overture less effective.
I agree with your idea, Mark… I think the Majestic Crest AND the National are both the most noteworthy theatres in West LA, and any idea that could help them sounds good to me. Easy for us to say from the sidelines, huh? For all we know Robert Bucksbaum and Tom Daugherty already know each other.
I’ve been told the new Landmark in west LA has a 4K, so apparently there is 4K in Los Angeles, but apparently it’s not enough of an improvement or event to warrant much press or even word of mouth.
Kinds leads up back to the idea that Digital is still not yet up to the quality of a well-made * 70mm or even 35 print. * well-made prints of any gauge are a rarity in these days of fast, cheap and quick print distribution.
Has anyone seen a particularly impressive 4K presentation?
Woody Allen used to have all his pictures open at the tiny Baronet on Third Avenue because he liked to see the lines around the block. I think the last time I stood in line in NY was at the Beekman, and Jerry Seinfeld was a couple people ahead of me. Ah, the Beekman…
It seems from Howard’s pictures that they have removed or disabled the front curtain warmer lights at the Ziegfeld. Probably so they could run the cheesy slides. Sad.
Does it bother anyone else that the 2/3 of the space under the Ziegfeld’s marquee is a driveway for a parking garage? Such a theatrical place, then a garage! I know how vital parking is, especially in NY, but really, having it dominate the entrance kinda spoils the look. Of all the places to put a garage entrance, under the Marquee?? Still miss the place, though.
Wow, imagine someone spending the money for that when the theatre’s days are supposedly numbered… thanks for the info, and please check to see if they took Mann’s name off the big roof sign.
So the big new sign that they just paid to have made does not say National WESTWOOD Theatre, does it? Don’t you think that big expensive sign would be enough proof for Mr. Cinema Treasures to change the listed name here to the name current proprietor obviously wants? He is paying to put “NATIONAL THEATRE” in the indie theatre list AND on the big sign, and has chosen NOT to call it the National Westwood. It Doesn’t say National Westwood anywhere that the actual operators control. Yet Cinema Treasures insists on adding that word to the name… I believe Michael Coate made this same point months ago.
Thanks again for the report, Mark.
can you elaborate on that, Mark?
they do allow candy, bottled water sometimes, and the ushers have to keep eyes peeled for cups coming in. the way some people try to hide drinks… like they think they’re the first to roll up their program around it. some places allow drinks if they want the money badly enough.
This I remember vividly. I was taken to see FIDDLER ON THE ROOF on Broadway as kid. My first B'way show. (Tzeitel was played by Bette Midler, btw) The only liquid refreshment available was little bitty cartons of Orangeade or Lemonade, I think there was a limited choice of candy. Radio City Music Hall in the 60s didn’t have popcorn either, no place to pop and serve it… so they had Cracker Jacks. Today’s Legit houses sell sodas and cocktails but most don’t allow them to be brought to the seats. Candy is sold, but the choice is generally limited to things that won’t make much mess or noise.
Legit theatres don’t serve it either, for the most obvious reasons, the mess and the noise.
Popcorn history dates at least as far back as ancient Egypt, where it’s been found in the pyramids. I think most food experts will say that popcorn can be a healthy snack, as long as it is handled properly. The variation found in theatres, stadiums, etc, is substantially altered by the orange oil it’s popped in. If it’s very yellow and has a buttery smell when being popped, use with caution. Regular popcorn is not naturally yellow. The real thing works well for me, actually helps me lose weight if I reach for popcorn instead of fatty snacks.
correcting typos above, “craft service had put out a bowl…” and “literally” …I really am a lousy typist.
I came late to the microwave popcorn trend and got a kick out of how “easy” it was… However the talk about hydrogenation gave me pause, and I knew there was a lot of fatty stuff in there… One day I was working on a TV show where craft services had put a ouy bowl of fresh stovetop popped popcorn – it was a big hit with all of us who hade forgotton how good the real thing could be. But what about the burning, the unpopped kernels, etc? I looked around and found the stovetop poppers that had a stirring mechanism like at the movies. You need very little oil in these, most every kernel pops, and it doesn’t stick to the pan.
Use Smart Balance oil (formulated to lower cholesterol), Theatre Spice, a good popcorn flavoring (withough any junk) from Schnider’s Gourmet World in Canada, Smart Balance fat/calorie free butter spray (Great buttery taste) and you get a pretty healthy snack that literelly reminds me of the hot buttered popcrn I got as a kid at the movies.
I am so used to this stuff that the heavy oil and flavoring used in theatres (especially ArcLight) makes me a little naseous. Kernel Seasons also makes a shake-on butter flavor. So once you get the knack of real popping, it’s a guilt free and pretty healthy snack.
I’m aware there were different versions of 3D and different glasses. I was not talking about any era at all. I only made a passing mention of a few gimmics to point out that they were brought in for one feature and not part of the permanent equipment. None of that has much to do with my original point, which is that technology serves best by enabling, augmenting or enhancing technology, rather than replacing it. It was at that point that Veyoung pulled us off-topic to debate on unrelated details.
Well I think you’re exaggerating quite a bit. I was at the Capitol in person, not looking at a picture, and observant enough to notice details like the fishnet pattern on the screen, the unique way they used the wide space behind the orchestra booth, the top of the ornate old proscenuim peeking over the top of the Cinerama drapes, and a steep incline of divans hidden behind a wall of heavy drapes at the back of the balcony that want all the way up to the original booth… I do remember seeing the A and C booths, but they didn’t make as strong an impression on me as all the other details, so I’ll still have to say that I didn’t find the booths intrusive, at all, and they were certainly covered to match the rest of the theatre.
Early Cinerama requirements were that the seats, walls, drapes, carpet all had to be the signature “Cinerama Red” so the booths would cetainly not be nearly as obvious as you suggest. Tech setup specs for Cinerama were very flexible in the placement of the booths and even the shape and curve of the screen.
There are pictures showing that Cinemiracle used three projectors in the same booth, shooting off mirrors, one of the distinguishing differences from Cinerama, in that they did NOT require 3 booths.
Much if what I’ve said is documented in pictures and text at the American Widescreen Museum – www.widescreenmuseum.com
Since all this has nothing to do with the Ziegfeld, I’m going to end the discussion at this point. This is all stuff that I should be covering and debating over on CinemaSightlines.
So back to topic, Being in LA, which seems to have a few more surviving single screen showcase theatres, I still miss the Ziegfeld, and especially envy the retro programming. I wish them al the success in the world and hope someone out here will get the idea, but I doubt it because the ArcLight is way too arrogant to make the effort that Clearview’s Ziegfeld staff seems to be.
Good Night, and Good Luck.
No reason the NY National couldn’t have concealed the speakers the same way they were in the LA National.
“There was not a single US Cinerama installation prior to that in which the three booths were not placed on or just above the orchestra floor and visible.”
Yeah there was. The Eckel in Syracuse was adapted for Cinerama, and had “bubble booths” tucked into the rear corners of the walls at least 15 feet off the ground. I’ve been involved in a lot of Cinerama related research and I’ve been in several of the theatres. I have indeed been in theatres that were adapted for Cinerama, where the side booths were not conspicuous at all. I was in what some consider the ultimate CInerama venue, the Loew’s Capitol in NY, and saw no speakers on the walls, nor were the booths that noticeable. Sure you could spot them if you looked for them, but they did not intrude into, or alter, the very theatrical atmosphere of the theatre.
My point is that the booths are not technology themselves,they are part of the building, and they could blend into the decor of a theatre more than black boxy speakers hung all over a wall. Speakers can indeed be concealed and just as effective. Booths have to be there but can at least blend into the decor like any other part of the building. There is a difference between visible and conspicuous.
Now back to the topic of the Ziegfeld… It was indeed a modern theatre trying to evoke the feeling of a movie palace (there was even a coat check room) but it has a definitely theatrical atmosphere, where you could have all the advanced technology you want without it standing out from the decor.
And it is a very memorable venue mainly because IT IS theatrical, rather than a bland asymmetrical room with a bare screen and chunky speakers all over the walls. (they may have hung speakers in the Ziegfeld later on, but with some effort any new speakers could have been concealed as they were in the beginning, and in any event this theatre is SO theatrical that even the speakers hung on the wall, are just blemishes on a very theatrical theatre. When you think of a movie you saw at the Ziegfeld, you remember where you saw it, but who remembers they saw a movie at the ArcLight or Loew’s Village VII?
No reason for the technology to call attention to itself when it can be concealed. It detracts from the overall experience, like having no curtain. Those are just two of the many details that have degraded the moviegoing experience into nothing more than a forgettable bland room.
Instead of enhancing the experience with showmanship and theatrical atmosphere, today’s emphasis on showing off the hardware makes the movie experience utterly forgettable, with not much left to distinguish it from TV at home. Plex rooms are much like a bigscreen TV set, with a blank screen where the picture just pops on like a TV.
Only reason for speakers hanging on the walls is if the surround sound was added AFTER the theatre was already built. Even in later installations, the speakers can and have (in roadshow houses, for example) been concealed or made much less conspicuous than black boxes hanging all over the wall.
Like the cardboard red-green 3D glasses, Fantasound, Smell-o-Vision, MegaSound, “Quintophonic” sound and other gimmicks, Sensurround was brought in for one film at a time and not part of the permanent equipment. Later on, the newer Ziegfeld (built with concealed surrounds) was able to get the same sub bass vibrating effect with built-in invisible speakers (most memorably for the premiere run of Close Encounters, when Neary’s truck goes crazy). The effect was amazing, much better than Sensurround because it wasn’t a random loop of rumbling. The audience response was great.
Cinerama was handled in every way like a legit theatre event, and every effort was made to make the elements blend into the background. Three booths needn’t be any more intrusive than one is and I’ve been in many theatres where they were barely noticeable. They were part of the permanent setup and therefore as easy to cover as any other wall of the theatre.
The National theatre in LA did not have speakers on the wall when it opened. Check the original photos on the National page at CinemaSightlines.com. It was built for 70mm roadshows, among other things, and fully equipped for full surround without showing the hardware.
So the only reason for one’s sensibility not to mind technology replacing showmanship instead of enhancing it, is that one hasn’t had enough exposure to refined presentation to really miss it… which is a big reason why many people don’t like to go out to movies anymore. The experience isn’t grand enough to make patrons feel special (and behave better) and want to come back regardless of the film. Aside from a big screen, there isn’t much to draw us out.
CT’s description of the Ziegfeld is faulty on 3 points:
1) built near the Sixth Avenue (aka Ave of the Americas) location of the original Ziegfeld Theatre (a legit house). The current Ziegfeld is the second building in from the corner, the original was at the corner. Not really a few hundred feet away, actually just behind where the original stood.
2) a balcony is traditionally a section that OVERHANGS part of the main floor. This theatre has raised section BEHIND the rest of the seats. One could call it a Mezzanine I suppose, because that word doesn’t necessarily indicate an overhang. Back in the day, this (along with the Beekman, Sutton, Cinema I, etc.) was called “stadium style,” which then meant one section raised behind another.
3) the correct spelling for the name is Z I E G F E L D T H E A T R E. Ziegfeld is commonly misspelled as Zeigfeld, and classier theatrical and film venues were spelled Theatre. (note the sign on the building). The Americanized spelling – theater – used to seem more proletarian or less impressive. Still does, to a lot of us.
FWIW: the original surounds at the Ziegfeld were all hidden from view, and still very effective (technology in a theatre should not – and need not – intrude on decor)…
and, one mustn’t confuse Loew’s Astor Plaza on 44th steet with the old Astor Theatre on Broadway, which was torn down (along with the Victoria and 3 legit theatres, to make way for the Marriot Marquis hotel) several years after the LAP was opened.
By the way, both Travolta’s inital star vehicles (FEVER and GREASE) first opened at the Loew’s State1 on Broadway. Grease ran some time later at the Ziegfeld as a special engagement.
Additional detail about the divisions of the Oswego Theatre, from my own memory augmented by a report from a current local resident…
Seating upstairs and downstairs was originally in three sections, center, right and left, and there were four aisles, allowing access to each section from both sides.
The original Balcony was separated from the main floor by putting a wall up to the ceiling from the edge of the balcony. What used to be the front section of the balcony (about 4 rows) became a little pit with lights on the floor aiming upward at the curtains. Plain curtains on the front wall right and left. The screen, directly in front of the center seating section, had about a 3 foot platform in front of it and curtains in cream and burgundy stripes about a foot wide. Years later, when the Balcony was subdivided, they did not cut it down the middle. On the right side, just about a third of the balcony’s width was sectioned off, using a tiny portion of the original projection booth that was the rewind/cutting room when I worked there in the 70s. It already had a tiny window in it and that’s where the projector throws from. I was in there once for National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation, (1989) and was surprised that they fit a projector in that small space. I imagine the platter for it is in the main area of the booth, where the Projectionist’s Viewing window was. At that time i believe the two bottom rooms and the two side rooms had not been added yet.
The main auditorium got its own booth in the 1972 split. The downstairs booth was in the back of the center section, and went from the left center aisle to the right center aisle, and from the lobby wall to the edge of the balcony.
Two additional screens occupy the back of the main house, going from the left center aisle to the left wall, and from the right center aisle to the right wall. Both rear rooms extend past the Balcony overhang, one almost halfway to the main screen, the other not so much. Both have projection booths in the rear, that throw to screens toward the front. I would not be surprised to learn that the original seats are still in their original locations within the two back rooms, however since these rooms go straight to the wall on both sides, that means there is no longer access to the wall aisles of the main house from the lobby. It is very likely that a couple extra rows of seats were removed from the rear of the left and right sections of the main house to allow access to the wall aisles.
The last two screens are in an addition built onto the side, occupying about ¼ of what was an unpaved parking lot for as far back as I can remember.
Sound has been upgraded in the main house by simply hanging speakers on the walls, but the original screen (still tilted backward from the early days when the projector was upstairs) has not been upgraded or even touched, nor have the two sets of stage curtains been used in years. The mechanism for the rear stage curtains had broken by the time I worked there, so all I had to work with was three switches: front curtain, house lights and footlights. There were no dimmers upstairs or downstairs. I’m told the front curtain hasn’t been used in about 20 years.
There’s a shot of the Boyd playing STAR! on their site. If I’d seen that earlier It would be on the DVD/Laserdisc. Check out a movie called THE PROJECTIONIST for some shots of the NY premiere of STAR! at the Rivoli in NY.