I too passed this on to the principal owner of the land under the long closed WARNER/GRAND in Milwaukee in hopes that he can use it to light a fire under the burghers of that very conservative city who are so notorious for holding onto their dollars that there has been a saying amoung advertising and marketing men nationwide that “If it sells in Milwaukee, it will sell anywhere!” Still, that city is now over half non-white and is rapidly changing as much as most American cities, so maybe the story of this article will soon be applicable to more cities — if the the people move before the theatres crumble beyond reasonable salvage, as Patsy brings out. Is anyone listening in the areas of the KINGS in Brooklyn or the UPTOWN in Chicago, to mention just two giant gems in their last days? I hope so, for the number of restorable movie palaces and 1960s single screen cinemas is declining rapidly with every passing week!
All readers of this, living in areas with notable theatres dieing the slow death, need to print out the article and mail it to their community leaders — the movers and shakers with the dollars and sense (as well as cents) to be able to do something. Don’t be shy; include at least a xerox or two of the theatre you are fighting for and a reminder of the value it could be today, and introduce the article as an inspiration in the vein of ‘If they all can do it, why can’t we?!!’
(Remember (if you print out the complete article) to change that term “blade” to the correct “Vertical sign” before you print it out. We don’t want to perpetuate ignorant slang which never does justice to its subject and encourages people to take a casual, dismissive attitude to theatres and their parts. Here is the URL to the complete article: http://tinyurl.com/ojpsz )
HeMan, english, and others: Nothing is more interesting to us than ourselves, but these pages are about theatres and that is why people come here. May I suggest that off-topic Comments be made to each other privately via E-mail. If you click on a person’s name in blue at the bottom of a Comment you will be taken to their Profile page where you will find a field labeled CONTACT INFO and here should appear their E-mail address if you click on it.
What? No information? That is because the person forgot to list his E-mail. That can quickly be corrected by clicking the little Link at the extreme right top of all pages where it says PROFILE. Clicking that takes one to his own Profile page where he can make updates such as posting his E-mail address there. Such a Contact field exists there as a kindly feature by Pat Crowley, one of the honchos of this site, to keep spam computers from ‘harvesting’ someone’s E-mall address as might happen were it left plain within or at the bottom of the Comments. Won’t you gentlemen avail yourselves of this fine provision and upodate your pages for the benefit of yourselves as well as others?
Short of finding some autographic document with the architect’s signature mentioning his involvement with the VENETIAN, the only evidence we have is secondary and therefore by others. The highest caliber of secondary documents are legal ones, and the best of those are deeds and similar, kept at the Register of Deeds' office in the Milwaukee County courthouse downtown at Tenth St. between Wells and State streets. Anyone wanting to settle the matter will have to wade through the records there for the architects' name(s), a long and tedious matter for one who is not a trained title searcher! On top of this is the fact that the architect(s) names may not be anywhere mentioned, since deeds deal mostly with land and not improvements.
The next best legal source are the Building Permits on microfiche in a building behind the Municipal Building next to City Hall on Water St. at Kilbourn Ave., about 13 blocks east of the Court House. Note that the microform archived permits have been maintained by a group of young Black women for decades now, and they have misfiled so many records, that the archive is sometimes worthless! If you can find the original permits on film plus any ammendments to them, they may only list the “architect of record” and not necessarily Mr. Eberson IF he was in any way involved. Many times a famous architect was paid for ‘Concept Sketches’ by the architect of record, but often it was done quietly, both because the local boys wanted credit, and because the famous one did not want his name attached to the work of others in case they did NOT succeed in ‘covering themselves with glory’ on the job in question.
If anyone wants to come here and find the difinitive record and photograph it so as to post it somewhere on-line, more power to you! My health is too poor to be of local assistance in the matter, but I am happy to give you moral support.
Larry Widen will be releasing his new book about Milw. theatres in September to be called “Silver Screens” and he will list Peacock and Frank in regard to the VENETIAN; if you learn otherwise difinitively before then, I’m sure he would love to see proof before then. He can be reached via his web site: www.widenonline.com
In regard to the above comments:
Brian Wolf: I don’t know where you got the impression that this was an Eberson design; all evidence indicates that it was a job of Peacock and Frank. Very likely the were inspired by Eberson’s works, but nothing indicates that the great one was in any involved personaly here in Milwaukee.
Will Dunklin: You here catch me in error, something I work hard to avoid. Your keen eye caught the obvious truth, which I just now confirmed with the only extant drawing I know of concerning the VENETIAN, its seating plan. This does show that it was indeed a standard single balcony plan with 2 staircases in the lobby, and NOT stadium plan as I stated above. I have not been in there since 1956 at the latest, when I was ten years old, so memory was fading, and it is possible that I somehow confused it with the FOX BAY or the RIVIERA, both original stadium plans, which I was also writing about at the time. I apologize for the error. Unfortunately, I cannot answer Will’s other questions because the plans for the building were not preserved and placed on city microfilm as were many others. I did locate Urban Peacock’s widow and she told me that when her husband died, she told the building super where his offices were located to burn all his drawings and records, which apparently the super did. She kept no memorabilia of his work and was obviously irritated with my phoning to inquire. Since the Wisconsin Architectural Archive did not exist then, there was no place to receive their drawings and we are the poorer for it.
It would also be good to let your search for photos be known among the city officials at the managerial level; they often have experience locating things in places the public might not know of. For example, here in Milwaukee a lot of exterior photos of theatres were found accidentally when we were told that the city’s bureau of roads and bridges had been photographing intersections and city repair projects and buildings appeared incidentally in the background. The snap shots were not of publishing quality, but any such might serve your purpose, especially if you make it known that you are not interested in publishing rights, and maybe that you will offer a small reward for finding anything (managers and clerks have other duties, so you want to create an incentive for them!) Maybe if you know some people in city and county governments, a little gift (box of chocolates?) might ‘grease’ the way. Another way is if you know a wealthy contractor or businessman who contributes large sums to campaigns who might pose your request to his contacts in government; he might get access to people of power that you might not beven know of.
Insuance companies are another possible source if they had a policy there, and your state insurance commissioner may have a listing of policies registered for that property (be sure to have the Legal Description of the land available as well as the city address!) The Register of Deeds will have your Legal Description and possibly deeds and other documents that might describe the changes made; it would give you some idea.
Also check with your local Stock Photos dealers in the Yellow Pages; they take and buy street scenes all the time, and act as location sources for film crews. With LA often being a background for the studio shoots, contact the companies which do the film location scouting for the filmmakers; they may very well have something, though they may charge to search their files if they do not smell a sale to come of it. Post card publishers also have dozens of street and building scenes — including many never published that you or your agent may have to wade through. Best Wishes.
How very true and how very rare! All the more reason this jewel should be preserved and protected. If I could, I would build a flood/hurricane shield enclosure over the building, made of the strongest steel to withstand winds of force 5! I hope the building at least has adequate high volume sump pumps to remove storm water (and long life batteries to power them), and storm doors and shutters for the windows. An ‘Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’ as they say!
Any remodeling should have come under the authority of a building permit, and an archive of them should be maintained by the city, so one could look there for dates and names of contractors, if any. Some cities also retain the blueprints submitted for the permits, at least on microfilm. Your state historic preservation officer may also know of local sources.
If there is no official record, then you would do best to contact the Ex. Director of the Theatre Historical Society of America through his E-mail address given at the bottom of their front page of their web site at: www.historictheatres.org They have a vast archive of photos and data of theatres across the nation. Best Wishes.
We have disagreement about opening date here, and while not crucial, it does beg the question as to just what is one’s Authority (source) for any information. Since it is highly unlikely that anyone here was alive and of mature years on that day, we all should get in the habit of revealing our sources for factual statements. Doing so not only enhances our reputations for accuracy, but that of this entire web site.
Sources will sometimes conflict as to facts, and then we should note such conflicts, and attempt to resolve them to the best of our abiliies. For example, opening day ads in newspapers are most reliable for dates because those ads were paid for and no one would pay for untimely ads, whereas mere book listings (as in the Film Daily Yearbook) are more prone to errors since it is a mere compilation of statistics, as are city records.
In contrast, city records of building permits and inspection reports are more reliable as to physical descriptions of the property since they are made by those somewhat expert in the area AND under a legal responsibility. For greatest accuracy in such, one should cite the architects' or builders' comments when possible in contrast to newspaper accounts written by non-experts and for the purpose of pleasing readers as much as anything else. So, your source does matter and should bear the responsibility when you say “According to ….”
Quote Jack Theakston above: “For example, you’re aware that the plasterwork’s original molds exist, yes?” Is this a question or a statement? For original plaster molds to exist at this late date would be a rarity indeed, and a situation much to be hoped for!
I have nothing on the Beaver Falls GRANADA, so you will have to inquire of THSA through its Ex. Dir., Richard Sklenar, via his E-mail address on their front page at: www.historictheatres.org
Ah, yes, the venerable Chicago UPTOWN still stands, and its web site is listed on its page here on CT. There are multiple efforts to preserve and reopen it, but like the wonderful KINGS in Brooklyn, it is so vast that it is daunting; and, Yes, THSA does have an Annual on it too! Enjoy.
Actually there were 4 GRANDs, but only the two mentioned still stand. There will be a listing of all Milw. movie houses in the reprint of “Milw. Movie Palaces” due out next September under the title “SILVER SCREENS” by Larry Widen, and likely available through amazon.com at that time.
It was nice of “Lost Memory” to link to a photo of the GRAND, but it is the WRONG Grand. His photo is of Milwaukee’s WARNER/GRAND ( /theaters/1903/ ). This confusion of names is to be expected, even though the two buildings could never be confused! This is also why I disapprove of reusing theatre names within the same city, but then, who asked me?
I’m glad you enjoyed the Annual on the PARADISE. Visitors here should nottice that entire list of Annuals under the BACK ISSUES link at www.historictheatres.org to see some of the finest theatres ever made.
JG: Glad you found the CAPITOL in Madison, Wisconsin’s state capitol, hence the name. I last was in it in ‘81, and it was a shadow of whatb it had been, so Imguessv the loss ofthe marquee was to be expected.
This site is very unpredictable from about noon to midnight, which is why I mostly come on in early morning. I have a hunch that its server is shared with much bigger clients who pay more, so CT gets whatevrt is left over. If the honchos are on broadband, they may not know what it’s like for those of us on dial-up. Last week I submitted a comment, and the update page never appeared, and when I could get back in to it, my comment had vanished! So if anyone has a major comment to upload, do it in the early morning or well after midnight — or at least keep a copy of it.
Well, Mr Lauter, it may not be that easy to really fake convincingly that auditorium of the PARADISE. For example, that trio of plaster horses above the stage was life size, and reared out over the fourth row of seats, almost 40 feet out from the stage edge behind the vast orchestra pit. It was so vast that it is difficult for most camera angles to capture it as it was for the thousands inside. Most all movie palaces were a loss, but this was one of the special ones that must have inspired awe. One must really get large photos of it (which can be ordered from www.historictheatres.org ) and either have enlargements of several feet square made locally, or take each 8x10 bought from THSA and, using a magnifying glass under bright light, put the photo close to your nose and then back it away slowly, and you will get somewhat the illusion of being in there.
Ziggy: Very likely the Archive of the Theatre Historical Society can help you as to other works by Ahlschlager, since he was a Chicago native; they are at: www.historictheatres.org
I do know of one job of his that never got off the ground here in Milwaukee; he is listed by the Wisconsin Architectural Archive as the “Consultant” on a proposed job by the local firm Eschweiler and Company in the 1920s. It is their file #011235, in case you might want to contact them as to what drawings or renderings might be in that file or what they may have otherwise found under Ahlschlager’s name since I learned of this file circa 1990. They are in our Central Library building, on the second floor off of the rotunda entry at: 814 W. Wisconsin Ave., Milwaukee, WI 53233 (414) 286-3897. They are often closed, so a phone call may not work as well for you as might a letter of inquiry. Were it not for my failing health, I would go the 15 miles there and do the looking for you. They also have the blueprints/drawings of some 80 other theatres in 4 other states and Canada as well, and can have any print copied/mailed for you for a fee. Best Wishes.
Hello, JG: Glad you found the data about the PARADISE’s marquee’s ten bulb colors (Where was that article, please?) Yes, the movie palaces were expensive affairs from many standpoints, including electricity, and even though rates were just a few cents per kilowatt hour back then, it all added up. As the years wore on and the PARADISE proved less a gold mine than expected, the owners may well have regretted the cost of the marquee lights adding to costs, but it was usually other reasons that changed the marquees across America.
In many cities, marquees were indeed taxed to reduce the proliferation of “gaudy” signs then crowding building fronts. Such light bulb extravaganzas were originated in the years not long after the invention of the light bulb, something that so changed the street scape and way of life back then that we can scarsely believe its significance today; even an entire book was written about this phenomenon: “Disenchanted Night” by Wolfgang Schivelbusch, 1983. After the Second World War, the entire attitude of our society changed drastically, and formerly admired European precedents came to be sneered at as the new world ‘conquerer’, America, embraced the souless ‘International style’ of architecture and decor wholeheartedly. The ornate curves of marquees were only some of the graciousness that was denigrated and discarded as fast as a society running toward televisioin and blatant materialism could. Sign companies hearlded this post-war change since it meant fortunes for them as they convinced owners that they had to modernize to compete, and then the companies made millions removing old marquees and designing and building new, plastic and fluorescent ones to reeplace them. No doubt the PARADISE’s fell victim to this same ethos spreading across the land. The owners were running scared in view of television, and the sign guys played expertly upon the owner’s desperation to get the public to notice them against competition! Within just the decade of the ‘50s, many thousands of theatres were re-signed, now that men and materials were again available after the war. The sign companies then made more fortunes melting down the removed marquees and verticals, and the wholesale slaughter of the previous 30 years of artistic signs went on as vigorously as Urban Renewal in the next decades — and for some of the same reasons! So, the PARADISE’s marquee was replaced, but not necessarily due to maintenance costs alone.
I placed this message on their Comments page about their Directory Page:
“Love the Movie Palaces front page feature, but please do a little more research before making statements such as "Thomas Tally … opened the first movie house in the USA in 1902.” This is just not true, as the experts at the Theatre Historical Soc. of America ( www.historictheatres.org ) could have told you. Relying on any one local source is always going to get you their bias or simple ignorance of the nation as a whole. People viewing that page will tend to take your word as authorative fact, so you owe them more than just someone’s opinion in California, just one of 50 states after all."
Well, JG, you may want to revise that order to THSA, since there is yet another of their Annuals that you may want, given your great interest in Ebersonian’s works: Annual #27 for the Year 2000 = “A John Eberson Scrapbook.” Its 40 pages are filled with photos of his works, including many of his less known works, and a portrait of the master himself with a mini-biography. There is a list of his theatres inside the back cover. THSA no longer has a formal Index to give out, but you might ask them for a gratis copy of their “QR” (Quick Reference) which has other citations to mentions of Eberson within the Society’s publications; likely they will include it with your order for Annuals.
You ask about working in theatres, and I hope your plans for such go well, but you might want to observe some of the cautions I and others gave a young woman with similar asperations at: http://cinematreasures.org/news/14407_0_1_0_C/ It can be a rewarding occupation from the perspective of an outsider, but given its unpredictable nature, you might want to plan for a back-up career if you can. By all means, go to the sources we mention there and let them help you analyze the potential in light of your own needs.
Should you wish to contact anyone making comments here, merely click on their name or ‘handle’ in blue at the bottom of any comment. This takes one to their Profile page where there is a field: CONTACT INFO where they may have left such as an E-mail address, as I did. Many people have left nothing there, as in your case, but that can be revised by clicking on the link PROFILE which is on the upper right corner of every page (if one is registered and signed in, which is done by this site’s ‘cookie’ on your computer automatically if you have ‘cookies’ turned on, and if you have set up a profile here). I will be happy to supply you with what little information I might have, given that I’ve never worked in theatres directly. I was the Archivist/Historian to my native Milwaukee’s PABST THEATER ( /theaters/2753/ ) in 1990-91 and wrote their 2-volume Application for National Historic Landmark designation —successfully— but that is as close as I’ve gotten in my 60 years. ( www.pabsttheater.org ) Best Wishes.
By the way, as Scott brings out, colored light bulbs were quite common in the ‘Twenties, as you will discern from the photos in the Annuals when you notice in the black & white photos the different tints of the light bulbs. Oh, to have had color photography back then! As the late Ben M. Hall says on the page 42 caption of the NYC’s RIALTO’s photo of its sign in his 1961 landmark book “The Best Remaining Seats”: “This was designed by men who knew what light bulbs were for!”
Sorry to have thrown you a curve again, JG, but I must need new glasses! You are right, of course, that the Bronx PARADISE’s Annual is indeed back in stock, I’m happy to see. So, do send off that money order as soon as you can —before it again goes out of print!
Speaking again of the Chicago PARADISE, there was an “Encore” article about it in their MARQUEE: Vol. 10 #4, 4th Qtr. 1978 which IS listed as out-of-print there, but perhaps one of the libraries I mentioned will let you photocopy the relevant pages (page 16 is a drawing of a planned revolving roof-top tower “lantern” sign that was never built, and 17 is two photos; one across the upper balcony with the cove lights turned on and ‘clouds’ retouched onto the sky portion, and also a view of an area not well represented in the Annual’s photos: “beyond the vestibule, but before the lobby.” THSA is nothing if not thorough!
Yes, it is the 1977 Annual as you surmise. I’m sorry if my mistake mislead you. Given your nearness to the Paradise in the Bronx, it is a pity that it is out of print — hence my comment about getting them while one can. You would do well to check the NY area libraries for a copy of that Annual, including the Avery Library at Columbia University. It was by the late Michael Miller, though I believe the copyright is owned by the Society, so it might be cataloged under that name. Let us know what you thought of the publications.
A splendid collection of photos —old and new— along with the PARADISE’S complete story, is to be found in the Theatre Historical Society’s Annual of 1973: “The Paradise In Chicago.” It is still available as a back issue from them for $10 plus $2.50 shipping in the USA and 50 cents for each additional copy shipping. For shipping charge outside the USA, contact them. Their web site is: www.historictheatres.org and you would click on the BACK ISSUES link there.
Yes, the 38-page booklet of 8-½ x 11-inches in the horizontal format, does include photos and story about the actual original, city-block-long marquee and vertical sign as well as the blocky, white plastic affair there at closing. The photos of that original, 1920s stupendous marquee must be seen to be believed! According to a full page ad with photos on page 59 of “Signs Of The Times” magazine of November 1928, there were 10,772 lamps (light bulbs) in the marquee which were activated by mercury cam-switch flashers in over 44 circuits and made by a company then in Milwaukee. They caused the eight letters in the PARADISE name on the marquee and its vertical sign to flash sequentially. There were 3 of those “spelling types” as well as “2 of the ‘Speed Border’ [chaser] types.” All photos in the Annual are in black and white primarily because there was no still color photography before the second World War, long after the photos of the movie palaces were taken at opening in the ‘Twenties. The reprints of such publications will not be around forever, so it is strongly suggested that all interested ones order the Annual(s) of interest as soon as possible! You will be quite pleased by the high quality of their publications.
Jim Rankin, member of THSA since 1976
Miss Kristin: I perceive that you have an abundance of enthusiasm but a profound lack of experience. I strongly suggest that you read a great deal on the subject before even considering investing money in a theatre. If you are rich and only want a job as a play thing, then costs may not matter, but otherwise costs can easily sink even those with deep pockets; there are many such tragic stories out there! Of all the structures you might decorate, a theatre is the most difficult and easily the most expensive to tackle. The suggestion above to go to that web site is a good one, but you will have to do your homework even there by going to their FORUMS and by reading ALL their FAQs as well as the Archived comments for most of them; this will constitute about 40 hours of reading just there.
After that you should visit the BOOKSHOP link on the front page of www.historictheatres.org to find appropriate titles such as “Movie Palaces: Renaissance and Reuse.” By clicking on any title there, you will be taken to its page on Amazon.com where there are full reviews and sometimes a purchasing option. When a title cannot be purchased, it can be sent to your local library via Inter-Library Loan at your request there.
There is no substitute for extensive reading on this subject if you are to be credible and successful. In the case of theatres, that means becoming very familiar with the related studies of Acoustics, Projection (if a movie theatre), Traffic patterns, Building codes and their both national and local fire regulations, Structural techniques and limitations, both Decorative and Safety Lighting, Building Insulating and HVAC, etc, etc. If you have never been paid for a LARGE decorating job, a theatre is NOT the place to start; you are very likely to lose your shirt and hurt others along the way. Theatres are so specialized that many of the biggest firms will not take them on, especially since so much of modern cinema decor is already pre-packaged from a few dozen vendors whom the chains —and most independents— deal with. You will not be able to match their package deal prices, uninspired though the’re decors are.
Exhibitors, which is what cinema owners are called, are not usually interested in decor, but in the largest return on investment in the shortest possible time; and this means as scant attention to decor as possible for 95% of them. For the other 5% it is a matter of hiring notable architects who have their own in-house decorators. Check out the site www.lhat.org for pages of listings to learn of just some of your would-be competition, most of whom are also degreed architects and engineers. Such jobs are a great deal more than throwing up some draperies! And even just draperies for a Movie Palace are far more expensive than you might imagine! Look in the chapter on Theatre Draperies in “Decorative Draperies and Upholstery” by Ed Thorne (1930) and you will get an idea. You might also look at such sites as www.conradschmitt.com to see how some of your competitors are set up.
The best potential source of vintage theatre photos is the Theatre Historical Society of America at: www.historictheatres.org Contact their Ex. Director, Richard Sklenar, via his E-mail address on their front page. Coffers are not difficult to restore and any ornamental plaster worker will know how to do so. One of the best is Conrad Schmitt Studios at www.conradschmitt.com who have worked on dozens of historic theatres. Best Wishes.
I too passed this on to the principal owner of the land under the long closed WARNER/GRAND in Milwaukee in hopes that he can use it to light a fire under the burghers of that very conservative city who are so notorious for holding onto their dollars that there has been a saying amoung advertising and marketing men nationwide that “If it sells in Milwaukee, it will sell anywhere!” Still, that city is now over half non-white and is rapidly changing as much as most American cities, so maybe the story of this article will soon be applicable to more cities — if the the people move before the theatres crumble beyond reasonable salvage, as Patsy brings out. Is anyone listening in the areas of the KINGS in Brooklyn or the UPTOWN in Chicago, to mention just two giant gems in their last days? I hope so, for the number of restorable movie palaces and 1960s single screen cinemas is declining rapidly with every passing week!
All readers of this, living in areas with notable theatres dieing the slow death, need to print out the article and mail it to their community leaders — the movers and shakers with the dollars and sense (as well as cents) to be able to do something. Don’t be shy; include at least a xerox or two of the theatre you are fighting for and a reminder of the value it could be today, and introduce the article as an inspiration in the vein of ‘If they all can do it, why can’t we?!!’
(Remember (if you print out the complete article) to change that term “blade” to the correct “Vertical sign” before you print it out. We don’t want to perpetuate ignorant slang which never does justice to its subject and encourages people to take a casual, dismissive attitude to theatres and their parts. Here is the URL to the complete article: http://tinyurl.com/ojpsz )
HeMan, english, and others: Nothing is more interesting to us than ourselves, but these pages are about theatres and that is why people come here. May I suggest that off-topic Comments be made to each other privately via E-mail. If you click on a person’s name in blue at the bottom of a Comment you will be taken to their Profile page where you will find a field labeled CONTACT INFO and here should appear their E-mail address if you click on it.
What? No information? That is because the person forgot to list his E-mail. That can quickly be corrected by clicking the little Link at the extreme right top of all pages where it says PROFILE. Clicking that takes one to his own Profile page where he can make updates such as posting his E-mail address there. Such a Contact field exists there as a kindly feature by Pat Crowley, one of the honchos of this site, to keep spam computers from ‘harvesting’ someone’s E-mall address as might happen were it left plain within or at the bottom of the Comments. Won’t you gentlemen avail yourselves of this fine provision and upodate your pages for the benefit of yourselves as well as others?
Short of finding some autographic document with the architect’s signature mentioning his involvement with the VENETIAN, the only evidence we have is secondary and therefore by others. The highest caliber of secondary documents are legal ones, and the best of those are deeds and similar, kept at the Register of Deeds' office in the Milwaukee County courthouse downtown at Tenth St. between Wells and State streets. Anyone wanting to settle the matter will have to wade through the records there for the architects' name(s), a long and tedious matter for one who is not a trained title searcher! On top of this is the fact that the architect(s) names may not be anywhere mentioned, since deeds deal mostly with land and not improvements.
The next best legal source are the Building Permits on microfiche in a building behind the Municipal Building next to City Hall on Water St. at Kilbourn Ave., about 13 blocks east of the Court House. Note that the microform archived permits have been maintained by a group of young Black women for decades now, and they have misfiled so many records, that the archive is sometimes worthless! If you can find the original permits on film plus any ammendments to them, they may only list the “architect of record” and not necessarily Mr. Eberson IF he was in any way involved. Many times a famous architect was paid for ‘Concept Sketches’ by the architect of record, but often it was done quietly, both because the local boys wanted credit, and because the famous one did not want his name attached to the work of others in case they did NOT succeed in ‘covering themselves with glory’ on the job in question.
If anyone wants to come here and find the difinitive record and photograph it so as to post it somewhere on-line, more power to you! My health is too poor to be of local assistance in the matter, but I am happy to give you moral support.
Larry Widen will be releasing his new book about Milw. theatres in September to be called “Silver Screens” and he will list Peacock and Frank in regard to the VENETIAN; if you learn otherwise difinitively before then, I’m sure he would love to see proof before then. He can be reached via his web site: www.widenonline.com
In regard to the above comments:
Brian Wolf: I don’t know where you got the impression that this was an Eberson design; all evidence indicates that it was a job of Peacock and Frank. Very likely the were inspired by Eberson’s works, but nothing indicates that the great one was in any involved personaly here in Milwaukee.
Will Dunklin: You here catch me in error, something I work hard to avoid. Your keen eye caught the obvious truth, which I just now confirmed with the only extant drawing I know of concerning the VENETIAN, its seating plan. This does show that it was indeed a standard single balcony plan with 2 staircases in the lobby, and NOT stadium plan as I stated above. I have not been in there since 1956 at the latest, when I was ten years old, so memory was fading, and it is possible that I somehow confused it with the FOX BAY or the RIVIERA, both original stadium plans, which I was also writing about at the time. I apologize for the error. Unfortunately, I cannot answer Will’s other questions because the plans for the building were not preserved and placed on city microfilm as were many others. I did locate Urban Peacock’s widow and she told me that when her husband died, she told the building super where his offices were located to burn all his drawings and records, which apparently the super did. She kept no memorabilia of his work and was obviously irritated with my phoning to inquire. Since the Wisconsin Architectural Archive did not exist then, there was no place to receive their drawings and we are the poorer for it.
It would also be good to let your search for photos be known among the city officials at the managerial level; they often have experience locating things in places the public might not know of. For example, here in Milwaukee a lot of exterior photos of theatres were found accidentally when we were told that the city’s bureau of roads and bridges had been photographing intersections and city repair projects and buildings appeared incidentally in the background. The snap shots were not of publishing quality, but any such might serve your purpose, especially if you make it known that you are not interested in publishing rights, and maybe that you will offer a small reward for finding anything (managers and clerks have other duties, so you want to create an incentive for them!) Maybe if you know some people in city and county governments, a little gift (box of chocolates?) might ‘grease’ the way. Another way is if you know a wealthy contractor or businessman who contributes large sums to campaigns who might pose your request to his contacts in government; he might get access to people of power that you might not beven know of.
Insuance companies are another possible source if they had a policy there, and your state insurance commissioner may have a listing of policies registered for that property (be sure to have the Legal Description of the land available as well as the city address!) The Register of Deeds will have your Legal Description and possibly deeds and other documents that might describe the changes made; it would give you some idea.
Also check with your local Stock Photos dealers in the Yellow Pages; they take and buy street scenes all the time, and act as location sources for film crews. With LA often being a background for the studio shoots, contact the companies which do the film location scouting for the filmmakers; they may very well have something, though they may charge to search their files if they do not smell a sale to come of it. Post card publishers also have dozens of street and building scenes — including many never published that you or your agent may have to wade through. Best Wishes.
How very true and how very rare! All the more reason this jewel should be preserved and protected. If I could, I would build a flood/hurricane shield enclosure over the building, made of the strongest steel to withstand winds of force 5! I hope the building at least has adequate high volume sump pumps to remove storm water (and long life batteries to power them), and storm doors and shutters for the windows. An ‘Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’ as they say!
Any remodeling should have come under the authority of a building permit, and an archive of them should be maintained by the city, so one could look there for dates and names of contractors, if any. Some cities also retain the blueprints submitted for the permits, at least on microfilm. Your state historic preservation officer may also know of local sources.
If there is no official record, then you would do best to contact the Ex. Director of the Theatre Historical Society of America through his E-mail address given at the bottom of their front page of their web site at: www.historictheatres.org They have a vast archive of photos and data of theatres across the nation. Best Wishes.
We have disagreement about opening date here, and while not crucial, it does beg the question as to just what is one’s Authority (source) for any information. Since it is highly unlikely that anyone here was alive and of mature years on that day, we all should get in the habit of revealing our sources for factual statements. Doing so not only enhances our reputations for accuracy, but that of this entire web site.
Sources will sometimes conflict as to facts, and then we should note such conflicts, and attempt to resolve them to the best of our abiliies. For example, opening day ads in newspapers are most reliable for dates because those ads were paid for and no one would pay for untimely ads, whereas mere book listings (as in the Film Daily Yearbook) are more prone to errors since it is a mere compilation of statistics, as are city records.
In contrast, city records of building permits and inspection reports are more reliable as to physical descriptions of the property since they are made by those somewhat expert in the area AND under a legal responsibility. For greatest accuracy in such, one should cite the architects' or builders' comments when possible in contrast to newspaper accounts written by non-experts and for the purpose of pleasing readers as much as anything else. So, your source does matter and should bear the responsibility when you say “According to ….”
Quote Jack Theakston above: “For example, you’re aware that the plasterwork’s original molds exist, yes?” Is this a question or a statement? For original plaster molds to exist at this late date would be a rarity indeed, and a situation much to be hoped for!
I have nothing on the Beaver Falls GRANADA, so you will have to inquire of THSA through its Ex. Dir., Richard Sklenar, via his E-mail address on their front page at: www.historictheatres.org
Ah, yes, the venerable Chicago UPTOWN still stands, and its web site is listed on its page here on CT. There are multiple efforts to preserve and reopen it, but like the wonderful KINGS in Brooklyn, it is so vast that it is daunting; and, Yes, THSA does have an Annual on it too! Enjoy.
Actually there were 4 GRANDs, but only the two mentioned still stand. There will be a listing of all Milw. movie houses in the reprint of “Milw. Movie Palaces” due out next September under the title “SILVER SCREENS” by Larry Widen, and likely available through amazon.com at that time.
It was nice of “Lost Memory” to link to a photo of the GRAND, but it is the WRONG Grand. His photo is of Milwaukee’s WARNER/GRAND ( /theaters/1903/ ). This confusion of names is to be expected, even though the two buildings could never be confused! This is also why I disapprove of reusing theatre names within the same city, but then, who asked me?
I’m glad you enjoyed the Annual on the PARADISE. Visitors here should nottice that entire list of Annuals under the BACK ISSUES link at www.historictheatres.org to see some of the finest theatres ever made.
JG: Glad you found the CAPITOL in Madison, Wisconsin’s state capitol, hence the name. I last was in it in ‘81, and it was a shadow of whatb it had been, so Imguessv the loss ofthe marquee was to be expected.
This site is very unpredictable from about noon to midnight, which is why I mostly come on in early morning. I have a hunch that its server is shared with much bigger clients who pay more, so CT gets whatevrt is left over. If the honchos are on broadband, they may not know what it’s like for those of us on dial-up. Last week I submitted a comment, and the update page never appeared, and when I could get back in to it, my comment had vanished! So if anyone has a major comment to upload, do it in the early morning or well after midnight — or at least keep a copy of it.
Well, JG, if you find one, sell tickets, and I will be among the first to buy one and go with you!!
Well, Mr Lauter, it may not be that easy to really fake convincingly that auditorium of the PARADISE. For example, that trio of plaster horses above the stage was life size, and reared out over the fourth row of seats, almost 40 feet out from the stage edge behind the vast orchestra pit. It was so vast that it is difficult for most camera angles to capture it as it was for the thousands inside. Most all movie palaces were a loss, but this was one of the special ones that must have inspired awe. One must really get large photos of it (which can be ordered from www.historictheatres.org ) and either have enlargements of several feet square made locally, or take each 8x10 bought from THSA and, using a magnifying glass under bright light, put the photo close to your nose and then back it away slowly, and you will get somewhat the illusion of being in there.
Ziggy: Very likely the Archive of the Theatre Historical Society can help you as to other works by Ahlschlager, since he was a Chicago native; they are at: www.historictheatres.org
I do know of one job of his that never got off the ground here in Milwaukee; he is listed by the Wisconsin Architectural Archive as the “Consultant” on a proposed job by the local firm Eschweiler and Company in the 1920s. It is their file #011235, in case you might want to contact them as to what drawings or renderings might be in that file or what they may have otherwise found under Ahlschlager’s name since I learned of this file circa 1990. They are in our Central Library building, on the second floor off of the rotunda entry at: 814 W. Wisconsin Ave., Milwaukee, WI 53233 (414) 286-3897. They are often closed, so a phone call may not work as well for you as might a letter of inquiry. Were it not for my failing health, I would go the 15 miles there and do the looking for you. They also have the blueprints/drawings of some 80 other theatres in 4 other states and Canada as well, and can have any print copied/mailed for you for a fee. Best Wishes.
Hello, JG: Glad you found the data about the PARADISE’s marquee’s ten bulb colors (Where was that article, please?) Yes, the movie palaces were expensive affairs from many standpoints, including electricity, and even though rates were just a few cents per kilowatt hour back then, it all added up. As the years wore on and the PARADISE proved less a gold mine than expected, the owners may well have regretted the cost of the marquee lights adding to costs, but it was usually other reasons that changed the marquees across America.
In many cities, marquees were indeed taxed to reduce the proliferation of “gaudy” signs then crowding building fronts. Such light bulb extravaganzas were originated in the years not long after the invention of the light bulb, something that so changed the street scape and way of life back then that we can scarsely believe its significance today; even an entire book was written about this phenomenon: “Disenchanted Night” by Wolfgang Schivelbusch, 1983. After the Second World War, the entire attitude of our society changed drastically, and formerly admired European precedents came to be sneered at as the new world ‘conquerer’, America, embraced the souless ‘International style’ of architecture and decor wholeheartedly. The ornate curves of marquees were only some of the graciousness that was denigrated and discarded as fast as a society running toward televisioin and blatant materialism could. Sign companies hearlded this post-war change since it meant fortunes for them as they convinced owners that they had to modernize to compete, and then the companies made millions removing old marquees and designing and building new, plastic and fluorescent ones to reeplace them. No doubt the PARADISE’s fell victim to this same ethos spreading across the land. The owners were running scared in view of television, and the sign guys played expertly upon the owner’s desperation to get the public to notice them against competition! Within just the decade of the ‘50s, many thousands of theatres were re-signed, now that men and materials were again available after the war. The sign companies then made more fortunes melting down the removed marquees and verticals, and the wholesale slaughter of the previous 30 years of artistic signs went on as vigorously as Urban Renewal in the next decades — and for some of the same reasons! So, the PARADISE’s marquee was replaced, but not necessarily due to maintenance costs alone.
I placed this message on their Comments page about their Directory Page:
“Love the Movie Palaces front page feature, but please do a little more research before making statements such as "Thomas Tally … opened the first movie house in the USA in 1902.” This is just not true, as the experts at the Theatre Historical Soc. of America ( www.historictheatres.org ) could have told you. Relying on any one local source is always going to get you their bias or simple ignorance of the nation as a whole. People viewing that page will tend to take your word as authorative fact, so you owe them more than just someone’s opinion in California, just one of 50 states after all."
Well, JG, you may want to revise that order to THSA, since there is yet another of their Annuals that you may want, given your great interest in Ebersonian’s works: Annual #27 for the Year 2000 = “A John Eberson Scrapbook.” Its 40 pages are filled with photos of his works, including many of his less known works, and a portrait of the master himself with a mini-biography. There is a list of his theatres inside the back cover. THSA no longer has a formal Index to give out, but you might ask them for a gratis copy of their “QR” (Quick Reference) which has other citations to mentions of Eberson within the Society’s publications; likely they will include it with your order for Annuals.
You ask about working in theatres, and I hope your plans for such go well, but you might want to observe some of the cautions I and others gave a young woman with similar asperations at: http://cinematreasures.org/news/14407_0_1_0_C/ It can be a rewarding occupation from the perspective of an outsider, but given its unpredictable nature, you might want to plan for a back-up career if you can. By all means, go to the sources we mention there and let them help you analyze the potential in light of your own needs.
Should you wish to contact anyone making comments here, merely click on their name or ‘handle’ in blue at the bottom of any comment. This takes one to their Profile page where there is a field: CONTACT INFO where they may have left such as an E-mail address, as I did. Many people have left nothing there, as in your case, but that can be revised by clicking on the link PROFILE which is on the upper right corner of every page (if one is registered and signed in, which is done by this site’s ‘cookie’ on your computer automatically if you have ‘cookies’ turned on, and if you have set up a profile here). I will be happy to supply you with what little information I might have, given that I’ve never worked in theatres directly. I was the Archivist/Historian to my native Milwaukee’s PABST THEATER ( /theaters/2753/ ) in 1990-91 and wrote their 2-volume Application for National Historic Landmark designation —successfully— but that is as close as I’ve gotten in my 60 years. ( www.pabsttheater.org ) Best Wishes.
By the way, as Scott brings out, colored light bulbs were quite common in the ‘Twenties, as you will discern from the photos in the Annuals when you notice in the black & white photos the different tints of the light bulbs. Oh, to have had color photography back then! As the late Ben M. Hall says on the page 42 caption of the NYC’s RIALTO’s photo of its sign in his 1961 landmark book “The Best Remaining Seats”: “This was designed by men who knew what light bulbs were for!”
Sorry to have thrown you a curve again, JG, but I must need new glasses! You are right, of course, that the Bronx PARADISE’s Annual is indeed back in stock, I’m happy to see. So, do send off that money order as soon as you can —before it again goes out of print!
Speaking again of the Chicago PARADISE, there was an “Encore” article about it in their MARQUEE: Vol. 10 #4, 4th Qtr. 1978 which IS listed as out-of-print there, but perhaps one of the libraries I mentioned will let you photocopy the relevant pages (page 16 is a drawing of a planned revolving roof-top tower “lantern” sign that was never built, and 17 is two photos; one across the upper balcony with the cove lights turned on and ‘clouds’ retouched onto the sky portion, and also a view of an area not well represented in the Annual’s photos: “beyond the vestibule, but before the lobby.” THSA is nothing if not thorough!
Yes, it is the 1977 Annual as you surmise. I’m sorry if my mistake mislead you. Given your nearness to the Paradise in the Bronx, it is a pity that it is out of print — hence my comment about getting them while one can. You would do well to check the NY area libraries for a copy of that Annual, including the Avery Library at Columbia University. It was by the late Michael Miller, though I believe the copyright is owned by the Society, so it might be cataloged under that name. Let us know what you thought of the publications.
A splendid collection of photos —old and new— along with the PARADISE’S complete story, is to be found in the Theatre Historical Society’s Annual of 1973: “The Paradise In Chicago.” It is still available as a back issue from them for $10 plus $2.50 shipping in the USA and 50 cents for each additional copy shipping. For shipping charge outside the USA, contact them. Their web site is: www.historictheatres.org and you would click on the BACK ISSUES link there.
Yes, the 38-page booklet of 8-½ x 11-inches in the horizontal format, does include photos and story about the actual original, city-block-long marquee and vertical sign as well as the blocky, white plastic affair there at closing. The photos of that original, 1920s stupendous marquee must be seen to be believed! According to a full page ad with photos on page 59 of “Signs Of The Times” magazine of November 1928, there were 10,772 lamps (light bulbs) in the marquee which were activated by mercury cam-switch flashers in over 44 circuits and made by a company then in Milwaukee. They caused the eight letters in the PARADISE name on the marquee and its vertical sign to flash sequentially. There were 3 of those “spelling types” as well as “2 of the ‘Speed Border’ [chaser] types.” All photos in the Annual are in black and white primarily because there was no still color photography before the second World War, long after the photos of the movie palaces were taken at opening in the ‘Twenties. The reprints of such publications will not be around forever, so it is strongly suggested that all interested ones order the Annual(s) of interest as soon as possible! You will be quite pleased by the high quality of their publications.
Jim Rankin, member of THSA since 1976
Miss Kristin: I perceive that you have an abundance of enthusiasm but a profound lack of experience. I strongly suggest that you read a great deal on the subject before even considering investing money in a theatre. If you are rich and only want a job as a play thing, then costs may not matter, but otherwise costs can easily sink even those with deep pockets; there are many such tragic stories out there! Of all the structures you might decorate, a theatre is the most difficult and easily the most expensive to tackle. The suggestion above to go to that web site is a good one, but you will have to do your homework even there by going to their FORUMS and by reading ALL their FAQs as well as the Archived comments for most of them; this will constitute about 40 hours of reading just there.
After that you should visit the BOOKSHOP link on the front page of www.historictheatres.org to find appropriate titles such as “Movie Palaces: Renaissance and Reuse.” By clicking on any title there, you will be taken to its page on Amazon.com where there are full reviews and sometimes a purchasing option. When a title cannot be purchased, it can be sent to your local library via Inter-Library Loan at your request there.
There is no substitute for extensive reading on this subject if you are to be credible and successful. In the case of theatres, that means becoming very familiar with the related studies of Acoustics, Projection (if a movie theatre), Traffic patterns, Building codes and their both national and local fire regulations, Structural techniques and limitations, both Decorative and Safety Lighting, Building Insulating and HVAC, etc, etc. If you have never been paid for a LARGE decorating job, a theatre is NOT the place to start; you are very likely to lose your shirt and hurt others along the way. Theatres are so specialized that many of the biggest firms will not take them on, especially since so much of modern cinema decor is already pre-packaged from a few dozen vendors whom the chains —and most independents— deal with. You will not be able to match their package deal prices, uninspired though the’re decors are.
Exhibitors, which is what cinema owners are called, are not usually interested in decor, but in the largest return on investment in the shortest possible time; and this means as scant attention to decor as possible for 95% of them. For the other 5% it is a matter of hiring notable architects who have their own in-house decorators. Check out the site www.lhat.org for pages of listings to learn of just some of your would-be competition, most of whom are also degreed architects and engineers. Such jobs are a great deal more than throwing up some draperies! And even just draperies for a Movie Palace are far more expensive than you might imagine! Look in the chapter on Theatre Draperies in “Decorative Draperies and Upholstery” by Ed Thorne (1930) and you will get an idea. You might also look at such sites as www.conradschmitt.com to see how some of your competitors are set up.
The best potential source of vintage theatre photos is the Theatre Historical Society of America at: www.historictheatres.org Contact their Ex. Director, Richard Sklenar, via his E-mail address on their front page. Coffers are not difficult to restore and any ornamental plaster worker will know how to do so. One of the best is Conrad Schmitt Studios at www.conradschmitt.com who have worked on dozens of historic theatres. Best Wishes.