‘Tonino… I can assure you that my comments about being appalled and disgusted were not aimed at AlAlvarez or Allie the film guy. And you’re cold on the trail of detecting who is using multiple aliases on this site. It certainly isn’t Brooklyn Jim, mikemovies and frankie – who are without question three distinct and unique individuals.
I have a suggestion for the volunteer who winds up editing user comments. Since there is currently no chat space or general topic forums on CT, perhaps off-topic threads can be allowed to take their natural course (provided certain parties don’t come storming in with their complaints and rile up old tensions as they seem to be able to do with impugnity here) in the theater pages and then once they’ve petered out (as they always do) they can be removed from the record. I don’t think that anyone involved in straying far off topic really expects that there musings deserve to be forever enshrined in cyberspace… they are mostly spur of the moment. Once the thread has run its course, I’m sure most will agree that having it evaporate into space wouldn’t offend anyone.
You can probably start with this page and delete scores of posts on tangential topics that have been long forgotten. Only I would hasten to caution that a liberal amount of discretion be used in determining the point at which a thread or comment veers unacceptably off topic. There is a lot of neighborhood color on this page and others, that provides context and narrative from folks who lived and breathed experiences within a particular theater and its environs during a point in time that is lost to all but their memories. What better way to celebrate the important place these cinemas occupied in our collective histories than to allow those memories to live and breathe on these pages?
I don’t think many would argue that some of the movie trivia folks played here is integral to appreciating the Ridgewood’s history – likewise recollections about who went to which school with so-and-so’s sister or the trading of personal email addresses, etc. But please, keep in mind when editing down these pages that we do appreciate personal recollections that involve the ice-cream parlor down the block or the pool hall across the street that paint a bigger picture and allow us to go back in time and relive those experiences with the story teller. Not all off-topic wanderings are bad. And, after all, I hope that we do not want these pages to become nothing more than starched and dried out fact-sheets for each theater listed.
Yes, Al. I’m appalled. And disgusted. Only, it isn’t from YOUR comments. To the new CT blog editor, Mike Zoldessy… I offer my condolences and a bottle of Bayer aspirin.
I remember those shows too Vincent. Dick Cavett had the best celebrity talk show ever, in my mind. That goes for his ABC series (now being featured weekly on TMC) and his long running PBS series. And I’m eternally grateful to PBS for giving me Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, The Two Ronnies and The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin! I also remember Matinee at the Bijou back in the ‘80’s… but I remember being disappointed that so much was crammed into it’s 90 minute time slot that the feature films themselves seemed hastily edited down. I could understand that philosophy in a syndicated series intended for commercial television, but I found it at odds with what I presumed at the time to be the level of integrity at PBS.
I vaguely recall that the original host was a fairly anonymous motion picture character actor at the time. I know I saw him in a film or two back in the ‘80’s and thought “there’s the guy from Matinee at the Bijou!” I guess this time around, they wanted some star power.
I was thinking the same thing, Lost, but the ‘56 “Ten Commandments” wasn’t released until October of '56 and surely wouldn’t have made to a struggling late run nabe like the Victory until well into the following year, if not later. I wonder how many folks came out that Holiday weekend to see a creaky old C.B. DeMille silent? I suppose that in a Queens suburb of the 1950’s, a sufficient number of families might have considered it fittingly pious to take in DeMille’s reverent passion play.
Evidently, Mr. Rothman was the eternal optimist. Well… at least we now have a more or less complete picture of this theater’s history. Seems like this independent operator spent a decent sum of money refurbishing the Victory… only to send some more money chasing after that folly less than two years later to convert the place to a bowling alley! I trust the Victory Lanes proved a better investment for Rothman and his partners.
Victory Theatre, November 7th, 1930 – April 17th, 1957.
You would probably have to look no further than the Criterion’s neighbor across 45th Street, the Loew’s State for a comparable situation. When that theater was twinned and the balcony sealed off from the orchestra level, a number of seating rows were installed on the new extended floor of the upper level in front of the former loge sections with the screen located in the upper niche of the old single screen proscenium. This practice added revenue to the space by virtue of the additional seating and gave the projectionist adequate distance for proper throw. In the case of the State, it also preserved a fair amount of interior ornamentation and atmosphere for patrons to enjoy while attending the upstairs theater.
Many other theaters simply sealed the balcony up and kept the original front row of loge seating as the front row of the new partitioned auditorium, with an expanse of naked flooring between the seating and the screen (the RKO Keith’s and Midway Theater in Queens come to mind). The cost to reinforce the new flooring (which otherwise would basically just be the ceiling over the former orchestra section below) so that it could support the added weight of new seating probably had to be factored against the existing seating capacity of the balcony section when that decision was being made.
Thanks for posting those links, Michael. I meant to do so myself, but I’ve been so busy (in fact, I thought I already had posted them)! I took those shots a couple of weeks ago as workers were slopping on the stucco material around the old stage housing area. I approached a group of them to inquire as to the nature of the exterior restoration – particularly with respect to the decorative lintels that had been removed. I was told to speak with someone inside the church.
I entered via the current temporary entrance (the former rear orchestra fire exit on 57th Drive) and found a young gentleman seated at a folding table against the side wall just inside the inner door. There was some sort of classroom activity going on just behind the gentleman at the rear of the orchestra where similar folding tables were set up. Since there were children in attendance, I was understandably asked by the gentleman to hold our conversation in the small exit vestibule through which I had just entered. I was only able to take a brief glimpse at the work being done to the auditorium. The room is brightly lit and painted in white. My view was limited to the rear orchestra, with the balcony overhang obscuring the cieling and proscenium work. The most notable feature that caught my eye would be the wrought iron balustrades at the rear of the mezzanine level, overlooking the rear orchestra.
Once in the vestibule, I explained that I was a resident of Elmhurst in my youth and had attended many a movie at the old theater and would be interested in taking a quick tour of the theater and discussing restoration plans with someone in authority, whenever it was convenient for the church. He suggested I call the number posted on the marquee and try to make for arrangements. He didn’t give me any particular names to ask for, but suggested I call around 6pm or so. My schedule has not allowed me to follow through on that suggestion yet, but when I do, I’ll be sure to post about it right here.
From the looks of things, I’m not encouraged about the prospects of a true exterior restoration. The stuff they are applying to the exterior reminds me of the old “Garden State Brick Face” material that used to be advertised all over local TV for quick and cheap exterior home remodeling back in the ‘70’s and '80’s. It’s a substance that is applied to any facade in a thick layer and then sculpted and painted to give the appearance of whatever style the customer wants. In the case of the Elmwood/Rock Church, seems to me like it is being carved into the look of faux limestone. And then with those new colonial looking window frames… Sigh. A real disappointment.
Also… sorry to mislead you ken mc… William’s listing is correct for the old Criterion. I didn’t realize that Warren had separately listed the Olympia Music Hall/Loew’s New York and the old Lyric/Criterion.
Seems that the upstairs theater at the Criterion must have been a lot bigger than the old balcony was when it was a single screener. I’m guessing that this was because they installed seats on the new floor that was extended to seal off the old balcony from the orchestra section below. Perhaps it was in this largest of auditoriums that the legendary Dream Street performance was held – utilizing some sort of temporary platform stage in front of the screen.
This was one of the few Times Square theaters I never set foot in – at least as far as I can recall. I don’t believe I was ever in the National or the Embassy 2,3,4 either.
Warren… those aren’t my photos in the Tribune. I just checked them out. Looks like they had a staff photographer go down and snap some similar shots of their own. I’d have gladly shared the photos for free (albeit with credit), but no one asked.
Ken mc… you forgot to add the link. However, your post is better suited to the Loew’s New York theater complex, which was demolished to make way for the new Criterion in 1935. The Criterion theater being discussed on this page was not even in existence in 1922.
Were there eight theaters by the time the Criterion was done being carved up in the ‘80’s? I always thought the final number was seven screens at the very end.
Warren… did Cue list the 42nd Street and other nabe grinders? My parents subscribed to Cue when I was just barely a teen and I used to love pouring through their movie listings for interesting films to go see. I remember being very sad when Cue was absorbed by New York (was that around 1980 or so?) and sadder still as Cue’s movie listing features were truncated over the years.
Hmmm… A film about my future and fictiional murder? Sure, why not? I’d probably have to throw a screening party for all my friends. It would certainly make for an interesting and unique conversation item! Now, the question is… how do I want to die? Sucked out of a plane at 30,000 feet like Goldfinger? That’d be cool. Maybe shot down from the top of the Empire State Building like King Kong! No, I got it… riding bronco atop a nuclear bomb like Colonel Kong in “Dr. Strangelove”… Hootin' and a-hollerin' the whole way down. Yeah… that’s the one.
First of all, who says this film portrays the “future assassination of a president”? Has it been proven that this film predicts future events? Is Criswel involved in the production? It is a fictional story, even though it uses an actual sitting President as a character in the plot. Would it be better to have a film about the assassination of a U.S. President if a fictitious name was used instead? That’s as absurd as dubbing or bleeping expletives on TV, when we all know what the characters are saying! I mean, should the name of the country be changed also? Perhaps the film should have been about an assassination on President of the United Territories of America. You know… sort of how films about a television network can’t use an actual network name as its subject, hence UBS in “Network” and NBS on the TV show “Live from Studio 60”.
Lost… There was also an off-Broadway sized facility that was part of the Criterion Center complex and was used by the Roundabout Theatre organization. I believe it was in the former International Casino space upstairs. I still wonder if Dream Street performed in that space as opposed to one of the 5 Criterion movie theater auditoriums. I can’t recall ever being in the Criterion… was the orchestra level auditorium intact with stage space? Was there ever any stage space?
Just out of curiosity, do you have any C/O info on what kind of capacity each auditorium had after the multiplexing?
I can recall having a couple of steins of Dinkelacker over a nice filling meal at the Jagerhaus on several occasions back in the ‘80’s. They had the most awesome raisin bread there.
Beth… The elements for “Rear Window” may have indeed been restored, but unless a new print was struck for the Ziegfeld engagment (hah!), you would have just seen normal wear and tear from mulitiple screenings. Are you might have suffered through a shoddy presentation if the focus was soft.
In many ways, movies have grown much tamer since the 1970’s in terms of their tackling of complex psycho-sexual and sociological subject matter. Violence in films continues to grow in the other direction – more and more explicit and realistic. But, in Hollywood’s never-ending quest to homogenize its product in order to appeal to the broadest possible audience, the frank treatment of human sexuality and discussions of topics widely considered distasteful or offensive has been pushed to the outer margins. Instead, the moviegoing public is fed bowl after bowl of stale and re-heated PG-13 soup.
The address of the property that Kurt M references is 80-20 Roosevelt Avenue and was a funeral parlor and mortuary since as far back as 1956 when the C/O for same was issued. The C/O indicates the alteration of an existing building – and the timing is certainly right for the closure and conversion of a former nabe. The “bin” for this lot on NYC’s Building Department website also contains a C/O for a dwelling and store issued in 1931, but it seems to be referencing a Shelton Ave in the address. Was this an archaic name for 81st Street? This wouldn’t be the first time I’ve run across an errant C/O in the wrong property bin on that website. And I see no newer C/O converting from funeral home to restaurant.
I can’t get a good view of the front facade from local.live.com due to the elevated IRT tracks, but the building profile from the air does not seem to indicate that the structure was built as a cinema. While the structure may be big enough to have once contained a small theater, the two story structure features a flat roof with parapet wall, rather than the usual peaked roof seen in most purpose-built auditoriums. KurtM… how did you come to understand that this was ever a theater?
‘Tonino… I can assure you that my comments about being appalled and disgusted were not aimed at AlAlvarez or Allie the film guy. And you’re cold on the trail of detecting who is using multiple aliases on this site. It certainly isn’t Brooklyn Jim, mikemovies and frankie – who are without question three distinct and unique individuals.
I have a suggestion for the volunteer who winds up editing user comments. Since there is currently no chat space or general topic forums on CT, perhaps off-topic threads can be allowed to take their natural course (provided certain parties don’t come storming in with their complaints and rile up old tensions as they seem to be able to do with impugnity here) in the theater pages and then once they’ve petered out (as they always do) they can be removed from the record. I don’t think that anyone involved in straying far off topic really expects that there musings deserve to be forever enshrined in cyberspace… they are mostly spur of the moment. Once the thread has run its course, I’m sure most will agree that having it evaporate into space wouldn’t offend anyone.
You can probably start with this page and delete scores of posts on tangential topics that have been long forgotten. Only I would hasten to caution that a liberal amount of discretion be used in determining the point at which a thread or comment veers unacceptably off topic. There is a lot of neighborhood color on this page and others, that provides context and narrative from folks who lived and breathed experiences within a particular theater and its environs during a point in time that is lost to all but their memories. What better way to celebrate the important place these cinemas occupied in our collective histories than to allow those memories to live and breathe on these pages?
I don’t think many would argue that some of the movie trivia folks played here is integral to appreciating the Ridgewood’s history – likewise recollections about who went to which school with so-and-so’s sister or the trading of personal email addresses, etc. But please, keep in mind when editing down these pages that we do appreciate personal recollections that involve the ice-cream parlor down the block or the pool hall across the street that paint a bigger picture and allow us to go back in time and relive those experiences with the story teller. Not all off-topic wanderings are bad. And, after all, I hope that we do not want these pages to become nothing more than starched and dried out fact-sheets for each theater listed.
What a sad way to end the week… 3 separate stories from 3 different individuals each about the demolition of a local theater.
Yes, Al. I’m appalled. And disgusted. Only, it isn’t from YOUR comments. To the new CT blog editor, Mike Zoldessy… I offer my condolences and a bottle of Bayer aspirin.
I remember those shows too Vincent. Dick Cavett had the best celebrity talk show ever, in my mind. That goes for his ABC series (now being featured weekly on TMC) and his long running PBS series. And I’m eternally grateful to PBS for giving me Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, The Two Ronnies and The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin! I also remember Matinee at the Bijou back in the ‘80’s… but I remember being disappointed that so much was crammed into it’s 90 minute time slot that the feature films themselves seemed hastily edited down. I could understand that philosophy in a syndicated series intended for commercial television, but I found it at odds with what I presumed at the time to be the level of integrity at PBS.
I vaguely recall that the original host was a fairly anonymous motion picture character actor at the time. I know I saw him in a film or two back in the ‘80’s and thought “there’s the guy from Matinee at the Bijou!” I guess this time around, they wanted some star power.
I was thinking the same thing, Lost, but the ‘56 “Ten Commandments” wasn’t released until October of '56 and surely wouldn’t have made to a struggling late run nabe like the Victory until well into the following year, if not later. I wonder how many folks came out that Holiday weekend to see a creaky old C.B. DeMille silent? I suppose that in a Queens suburb of the 1950’s, a sufficient number of families might have considered it fittingly pious to take in DeMille’s reverent passion play.
Actually, I don’t think there’s any neon there… all bulbs, probably, eh? Either way, nothing of that order exists anymore in NYC.
Hey wait… “King of Kings” in 1957? So, they paired up Ma and Pa Kettle with 1927 silent epic?
Evidently, Mr. Rothman was the eternal optimist. Well… at least we now have a more or less complete picture of this theater’s history. Seems like this independent operator spent a decent sum of money refurbishing the Victory… only to send some more money chasing after that folly less than two years later to convert the place to a bowling alley! I trust the Victory Lanes proved a better investment for Rothman and his partners.
Victory Theatre, November 7th, 1930 – April 17th, 1957.
You would probably have to look no further than the Criterion’s neighbor across 45th Street, the Loew’s State for a comparable situation. When that theater was twinned and the balcony sealed off from the orchestra level, a number of seating rows were installed on the new extended floor of the upper level in front of the former loge sections with the screen located in the upper niche of the old single screen proscenium. This practice added revenue to the space by virtue of the additional seating and gave the projectionist adequate distance for proper throw. In the case of the State, it also preserved a fair amount of interior ornamentation and atmosphere for patrons to enjoy while attending the upstairs theater.
Many other theaters simply sealed the balcony up and kept the original front row of loge seating as the front row of the new partitioned auditorium, with an expanse of naked flooring between the seating and the screen (the RKO Keith’s and Midway Theater in Queens come to mind). The cost to reinforce the new flooring (which otherwise would basically just be the ceiling over the former orchestra section below) so that it could support the added weight of new seating probably had to be factored against the existing seating capacity of the balcony section when that decision was being made.
Yes, Lost… Nothing it came to happen.
I wish NYC had even ONE marquee that still has that vintage neon flair!!!
Thanks for posting those links, Michael. I meant to do so myself, but I’ve been so busy (in fact, I thought I already had posted them)! I took those shots a couple of weeks ago as workers were slopping on the stucco material around the old stage housing area. I approached a group of them to inquire as to the nature of the exterior restoration – particularly with respect to the decorative lintels that had been removed. I was told to speak with someone inside the church.
I entered via the current temporary entrance (the former rear orchestra fire exit on 57th Drive) and found a young gentleman seated at a folding table against the side wall just inside the inner door. There was some sort of classroom activity going on just behind the gentleman at the rear of the orchestra where similar folding tables were set up. Since there were children in attendance, I was understandably asked by the gentleman to hold our conversation in the small exit vestibule through which I had just entered. I was only able to take a brief glimpse at the work being done to the auditorium. The room is brightly lit and painted in white. My view was limited to the rear orchestra, with the balcony overhang obscuring the cieling and proscenium work. The most notable feature that caught my eye would be the wrought iron balustrades at the rear of the mezzanine level, overlooking the rear orchestra.
Once in the vestibule, I explained that I was a resident of Elmhurst in my youth and had attended many a movie at the old theater and would be interested in taking a quick tour of the theater and discussing restoration plans with someone in authority, whenever it was convenient for the church. He suggested I call the number posted on the marquee and try to make for arrangements. He didn’t give me any particular names to ask for, but suggested I call around 6pm or so. My schedule has not allowed me to follow through on that suggestion yet, but when I do, I’ll be sure to post about it right here.
From the looks of things, I’m not encouraged about the prospects of a true exterior restoration. The stuff they are applying to the exterior reminds me of the old “Garden State Brick Face” material that used to be advertised all over local TV for quick and cheap exterior home remodeling back in the ‘70’s and '80’s. It’s a substance that is applied to any facade in a thick layer and then sculpted and painted to give the appearance of whatever style the customer wants. In the case of the Elmwood/Rock Church, seems to me like it is being carved into the look of faux limestone. And then with those new colonial looking window frames… Sigh. A real disappointment.
Also… sorry to mislead you ken mc… William’s listing is correct for the old Criterion. I didn’t realize that Warren had separately listed the Olympia Music Hall/Loew’s New York and the old Lyric/Criterion.
Seems that the upstairs theater at the Criterion must have been a lot bigger than the old balcony was when it was a single screener. I’m guessing that this was because they installed seats on the new floor that was extended to seal off the old balcony from the orchestra section below. Perhaps it was in this largest of auditoriums that the legendary Dream Street performance was held – utilizing some sort of temporary platform stage in front of the screen.
This was one of the few Times Square theaters I never set foot in – at least as far as I can recall. I don’t believe I was ever in the National or the Embassy 2,3,4 either.
Warren… those aren’t my photos in the Tribune. I just checked them out. Looks like they had a staff photographer go down and snap some similar shots of their own. I’d have gladly shared the photos for free (albeit with credit), but no one asked.
Ken mc… you forgot to add the link. However, your post is better suited to the Loew’s New York theater complex, which was demolished to make way for the new Criterion in 1935. The Criterion theater being discussed on this page was not even in existence in 1922.
Were there eight theaters by the time the Criterion was done being carved up in the ‘80’s? I always thought the final number was seven screens at the very end.
Warren… did Cue list the 42nd Street and other nabe grinders? My parents subscribed to Cue when I was just barely a teen and I used to love pouring through their movie listings for interesting films to go see. I remember being very sad when Cue was absorbed by New York (was that around 1980 or so?) and sadder still as Cue’s movie listing features were truncated over the years.
Hmmm… A film about my future and fictiional murder? Sure, why not? I’d probably have to throw a screening party for all my friends. It would certainly make for an interesting and unique conversation item! Now, the question is… how do I want to die? Sucked out of a plane at 30,000 feet like Goldfinger? That’d be cool. Maybe shot down from the top of the Empire State Building like King Kong! No, I got it… riding bronco atop a nuclear bomb like Colonel Kong in “Dr. Strangelove”… Hootin' and a-hollerin' the whole way down. Yeah… that’s the one.
First of all, who says this film portrays the “future assassination of a president”? Has it been proven that this film predicts future events? Is Criswel involved in the production? It is a fictional story, even though it uses an actual sitting President as a character in the plot. Would it be better to have a film about the assassination of a U.S. President if a fictitious name was used instead? That’s as absurd as dubbing or bleeping expletives on TV, when we all know what the characters are saying! I mean, should the name of the country be changed also? Perhaps the film should have been about an assassination on President of the United Territories of America. You know… sort of how films about a television network can’t use an actual network name as its subject, hence UBS in “Network” and NBS on the TV show “Live from Studio 60”.
Lost… There was also an off-Broadway sized facility that was part of the Criterion Center complex and was used by the Roundabout Theatre organization. I believe it was in the former International Casino space upstairs. I still wonder if Dream Street performed in that space as opposed to one of the 5 Criterion movie theater auditoriums. I can’t recall ever being in the Criterion… was the orchestra level auditorium intact with stage space? Was there ever any stage space?
Just out of curiosity, do you have any C/O info on what kind of capacity each auditorium had after the multiplexing?
I can recall having a couple of steins of Dinkelacker over a nice filling meal at the Jagerhaus on several occasions back in the ‘80’s. They had the most awesome raisin bread there.
Beth… The elements for “Rear Window” may have indeed been restored, but unless a new print was struck for the Ziegfeld engagment (hah!), you would have just seen normal wear and tear from mulitiple screenings. Are you might have suffered through a shoddy presentation if the focus was soft.
In many ways, movies have grown much tamer since the 1970’s in terms of their tackling of complex psycho-sexual and sociological subject matter. Violence in films continues to grow in the other direction – more and more explicit and realistic. But, in Hollywood’s never-ending quest to homogenize its product in order to appeal to the broadest possible audience, the frank treatment of human sexuality and discussions of topics widely considered distasteful or offensive has been pushed to the outer margins. Instead, the moviegoing public is fed bowl after bowl of stale and re-heated PG-13 soup.
The address of the property that Kurt M references is 80-20 Roosevelt Avenue and was a funeral parlor and mortuary since as far back as 1956 when the C/O for same was issued. The C/O indicates the alteration of an existing building – and the timing is certainly right for the closure and conversion of a former nabe. The “bin” for this lot on NYC’s Building Department website also contains a C/O for a dwelling and store issued in 1931, but it seems to be referencing a Shelton Ave in the address. Was this an archaic name for 81st Street? This wouldn’t be the first time I’ve run across an errant C/O in the wrong property bin on that website. And I see no newer C/O converting from funeral home to restaurant.
I can’t get a good view of the front facade from local.live.com due to the elevated IRT tracks, but the building profile from the air does not seem to indicate that the structure was built as a cinema. While the structure may be big enough to have once contained a small theater, the two story structure features a flat roof with parapet wall, rather than the usual peaked roof seen in most purpose-built auditoriums. KurtM… how did you come to understand that this was ever a theater?