A note about the organ. The original organ, which was stored by the city when it was removed from the theater, was mostly lost and/or stolen. The only piece that remained was its console which is now owned by Paul and Linda Van Der Molen of Wheaton Illinois. It does control 26 ranks of pipes and is almost identical in specification to the original Kings instrument.
The last time I was there I asked about those hanging cables. Many are for lights. Remember the building has little working power. There is one electrical panel near the managers office off the lobby that is working and all of the power to light the auditorium comes from there. Also there is a fire alarm system that was installed, those account for the red wires hanging all over the place. I’m not saying this is gospel, just what I was told.
I have been to the two most recent theater tours. There are pictures on Flickr. Just search for Loew’s Kings. You will see that the auditorium is in pretty bad shape. It is definately repairable/restorable but at a major cost. I can’t see anyone spending millions on that kind of restoration only to get back a fraction of their investment. I would guess that is why we haven’t seen anything come of those tours. I say, since the city already owns it, open it up to volunteers, clean out all of the debris and start a non-profit group to run it. The lobby is in pretty good shape and could be made useable much easier than to wait for the whole place to be restored. That is what they did at the Loew’s Jersey. While the Kings is in far worse shape than the Jersey, opening up a portion of it to the public could begin to generate interest and, who know’s, maybe more corporate involvement to start, ever so slowly, a renovation. I know this is pie in the sky but it may just work.
I think the city should really pick up the ball here and start spending the $35 million it promised to kick and really start renovations in earnest. Once developers see what is going on it will be easier to find someone to finish it. If not, then plans would have to be scaled back and use it as a non-profit performing arts center. Certainly not as grand as it could be but something that could be continually improved over time with grants, very little by very little.
Scott, I don’t think turning a profit is the issue. There are many ways to make this theater viable. It is turning a profit after based on an almost $70 million in investment. Even if you factor that the government is kicking in $35 million, it is still an amazing obstacle. I think a solution might be to take the $35 million and start renovations. Not the grand plans that have been suggested, but fixing what’s already there. The plaster work that is missing being replaced by a fiber glass concoction, renovate the existing stage and rigging, seating etc. These are big projects in and of themselves but I think you could attract a bigger base of possible partners with a partially completed theater than what is there now.
Geo – While I perfectly understand your point and I am not an architect, I can’t see how you could change the configuration of the auditorium without ruining it. Where you could make major changes is in the basement area. I don’t know if you saw my pictures of the last tour but the basement area is huge. You could easily turn that into rentable space for many types of businesses. It is amazing that during all of those years something wasn’t done with the space. If you could make a go of those area’s, then that income could be used to defray the operating expense of the theater space. The theater lobby could be used for weddings or those types of functions. Lets not forget the movie industry. They are always on the lookout for real movie theaters for period pieces. As a location for television productions such as live to tape programming, the Kings would be perfect. For concerts you have to look no further than the Loew’s 175th Street or the United Palace, as it is known today. There are many concerts held there which fill the house at decent ticket prices. A few people I work with have been there recently and said how well the concerts were put together and there were no empty seats. This may all sound like pie in the sky but they are all within reach. Renovate the basement area’s first and get that going to start generating income. That is much easier and cheaper than waiting for the auditorium to be finished before seeing any return on investment.
Movie534 – On the tour last month, a couple of us did sneak up a stairway that leads to the projection booth. We found 2 rooms. The first was a storage room with a second door that leads to the attic catwalks. The other, which the gentleman in front of me saw was the projection booth. There was only the light from his flashlight and he said the room looked empty. I hope that answers your question.
ALSO:
Just got a e-mail from the EDC. There will be another tour on May 12th. The deadline for RFP’s has also been extended. Good News?
Here is a link to the pictures I took on Monday. Sorry I got a little crazy in the mechanical room in the basement but listening to Bruce’s story about how the A/C worked just made me want to document as much as I could. A couple of us went up to the hallway leading to the projection booth but we were called back. I did get a shot of the doorway that leads to the catwalks above the auditorium. Shooting in the auditorium became tough due to all of the dust that was stirred up by people walking around. All I got were reflections of the dust particles. I hope you like them.
Happy New Year to all. Since you were so kind to explain about the orchestra lifts I was wondering what you can tell us about the stage lifts? How far into the basement do they go? The pictures from the October ‘06 open house show what looks like a total collapse of the stage, or has a lift(s) been lowered?
Point(s) well taken. I’ve heard there already has been testing as far as asbestos, mold, etc. and all came up low or within limits. Even if it had to be repeated, it is still cheaper to find out just what you’re looking at in terms of short and long term renovations. The overwhelming fact is that nothing is being done and the building just sits there rotting away. Since ownership resides with the City, they are the ones who have to take the lead.
Bruce – I am enjoying your behind the scenes info on the theater. Please keep it coming. I know most on this list would like to see the theater totally restored and indeed that would be the best situation but I still think that having local politicians try and find funding to fix the roof which, even though it was replaced some years back, still leaks. Also get at least the air handlers working to keep fresh air circulating. Then enlist volunteers, as a not for profit entity, to slowly clean and get the place back. Of course this wouldn’t fix the major water damage on house left of the auditorium, but it would help. It sounds crazy I know but that is probably a lot more feasible than trying to find the deep pockets necessary to do a total restoration for a fraction of the return on investment.
One door for the orchestra and the other for the organ. Jeez you’re really whetting my appetite. Are there any stage elevators or trap doors? Is there a possibility to get in to get pictures????
Bruce – I know you have been to the theater numerous times. What you describe about the A/C system are just the kinds of things I am interested in. I want to see the stage rigging, the lifts, basement, attic, etc. Those are the things that interest me the most in these old theaters. It would be great to get in there and really document not just what theatergoers saw years ago but what they didn’t. I work in television and have a good DVCAM camera and a nice digital SLR. If you can ever get in for a good amount of time, please let me know I would love to shoot it all. Maybe we could do a piece similar to what A&E did but much more in depth.
Again LuisV is right on the money, no pun intended. If there was some seed money to get the roof fixed to prevent further damage that would be a start. It may not be the same as committing 35 million dollars for a total renovation but it would show others that there is interest. I can only imagine what people must have thought when they saw the building last year. It does look like the EDC is just looking for someone to take The Kings off their hands.
I agree with LuisV. Many successful theater or PAC’s are in less than stellar neighborhoods. If you build it, they will come certainly would apply in this case. The restoration of the theater could be the starting point of a neighborhood renaissance. When others see that money is being spent, that will encourage more people to take a chance.
I’m not faulting Markowitz, the city certainly has limited resources. I was wondering what could be done on the federal level. They spend millions of dollars on studying the sleeping habits of rare breeds of birds so why not put some money into something that would truly benefit many (people that is.) Maybe if they had done that in the beginning instead of waiting for the white knight things wouldn’t be so grave.
You know I hate to say this but I think the main stumbling block here is the city. Its a shame that they took ownership of the place . I know much has been said about what we don’t want the place to become but a performance type TV studio (programming requiring an audience)isn’t such a bad idea or it could certainly be used as a movie location. The city is looking for someone who can come it with buckets of money and rehab the place. That kind of money just doesn’t come in for a performing arts center. We hear all of these stories in the press about the incredible amount of pork barrel spending our elected officials get for their areas. How about Marty petitioning local politicians for a couple of million (not much if you look at the amounts some groups get) the Kings way to fix the roof to prevent further damage and the lighting. Then let volunteers deal with the rest. Tall order? Sure but it is better than nothing. Look at the Loew’s Jersey. I know that building was in much better shape to start with but at least they are giving it a go. Does this sound like something that could heppen……Marty are you listening??????
A friend of mine is a freelance editor and works at A&E and saw the program yesterday. The segment is between 15 to 18 minutes and prominently features the Loew’s Jersey and the Kings. Some interviews and, what is most important to this group, interior footage.
If anyone gets or has access to the Theater Organ Journal of the American Theater Organ Society, there are pictures of the Kings in their current issue. The pictures include an exterior shot and the proscenium when the theater opened, the inner ant outer lobbys and even a picture of the great Billy Nalle playing the Robert-Morton organ. The pictures are from the Theatre Historical Society.
A note about the organ. The original organ, which was stored by the city when it was removed from the theater, was mostly lost and/or stolen. The only piece that remained was its console which is now owned by Paul and Linda Van Der Molen of Wheaton Illinois. It does control 26 ranks of pipes and is almost identical in specification to the original Kings instrument.
The last time I was there I asked about those hanging cables. Many are for lights. Remember the building has little working power. There is one electrical panel near the managers office off the lobby that is working and all of the power to light the auditorium comes from there. Also there is a fire alarm system that was installed, those account for the red wires hanging all over the place. I’m not saying this is gospel, just what I was told.
I have been to the two most recent theater tours. There are pictures on Flickr. Just search for Loew’s Kings. You will see that the auditorium is in pretty bad shape. It is definately repairable/restorable but at a major cost. I can’t see anyone spending millions on that kind of restoration only to get back a fraction of their investment. I would guess that is why we haven’t seen anything come of those tours. I say, since the city already owns it, open it up to volunteers, clean out all of the debris and start a non-profit group to run it. The lobby is in pretty good shape and could be made useable much easier than to wait for the whole place to be restored. That is what they did at the Loew’s Jersey. While the Kings is in far worse shape than the Jersey, opening up a portion of it to the public could begin to generate interest and, who know’s, maybe more corporate involvement to start, ever so slowly, a renovation. I know this is pie in the sky but it may just work.
I think the city should really pick up the ball here and start spending the $35 million it promised to kick and really start renovations in earnest. Once developers see what is going on it will be easier to find someone to finish it. If not, then plans would have to be scaled back and use it as a non-profit performing arts center. Certainly not as grand as it could be but something that could be continually improved over time with grants, very little by very little.
Scott, I don’t think turning a profit is the issue. There are many ways to make this theater viable. It is turning a profit after based on an almost $70 million in investment. Even if you factor that the government is kicking in $35 million, it is still an amazing obstacle. I think a solution might be to take the $35 million and start renovations. Not the grand plans that have been suggested, but fixing what’s already there. The plaster work that is missing being replaced by a fiber glass concoction, renovate the existing stage and rigging, seating etc. These are big projects in and of themselves but I think you could attract a bigger base of possible partners with a partially completed theater than what is there now.
Geo – While I perfectly understand your point and I am not an architect, I can’t see how you could change the configuration of the auditorium without ruining it. Where you could make major changes is in the basement area. I don’t know if you saw my pictures of the last tour but the basement area is huge. You could easily turn that into rentable space for many types of businesses. It is amazing that during all of those years something wasn’t done with the space. If you could make a go of those area’s, then that income could be used to defray the operating expense of the theater space. The theater lobby could be used for weddings or those types of functions. Lets not forget the movie industry. They are always on the lookout for real movie theaters for period pieces. As a location for television productions such as live to tape programming, the Kings would be perfect. For concerts you have to look no further than the Loew’s 175th Street or the United Palace, as it is known today. There are many concerts held there which fill the house at decent ticket prices. A few people I work with have been there recently and said how well the concerts were put together and there were no empty seats. This may all sound like pie in the sky but they are all within reach. Renovate the basement area’s first and get that going to start generating income. That is much easier and cheaper than waiting for the auditorium to be finished before seeing any return on investment.
Movie534 – On the tour last month, a couple of us did sneak up a stairway that leads to the projection booth. We found 2 rooms. The first was a storage room with a second door that leads to the attic catwalks. The other, which the gentleman in front of me saw was the projection booth. There was only the light from his flashlight and he said the room looked empty. I hope that answers your question.
ALSO:
Just got a e-mail from the EDC. There will be another tour on May 12th. The deadline for RFP’s has also been extended. Good News?
Here is a link to the pictures I took on Monday. Sorry I got a little crazy in the mechanical room in the basement but listening to Bruce’s story about how the A/C worked just made me want to document as much as I could. A couple of us went up to the hallway leading to the projection booth but we were called back. I did get a shot of the doorway that leads to the catwalks above the auditorium. Shooting in the auditorium became tough due to all of the dust that was stirred up by people walking around. All I got were reflections of the dust particles. I hope you like them.
View link
Bruce,
Happy New Year to all. Since you were so kind to explain about the orchestra lifts I was wondering what you can tell us about the stage lifts? How far into the basement do they go? The pictures from the October ‘06 open house show what looks like a total collapse of the stage, or has a lift(s) been lowered?
Point(s) well taken. I’ve heard there already has been testing as far as asbestos, mold, etc. and all came up low or within limits. Even if it had to be repeated, it is still cheaper to find out just what you’re looking at in terms of short and long term renovations. The overwhelming fact is that nothing is being done and the building just sits there rotting away. Since ownership resides with the City, they are the ones who have to take the lead.
Sorry, the main plaster damage, by most pictures I’ve seen, is on the right side of the auditorium.
Bruce – I am enjoying your behind the scenes info on the theater. Please keep it coming. I know most on this list would like to see the theater totally restored and indeed that would be the best situation but I still think that having local politicians try and find funding to fix the roof which, even though it was replaced some years back, still leaks. Also get at least the air handlers working to keep fresh air circulating. Then enlist volunteers, as a not for profit entity, to slowly clean and get the place back. Of course this wouldn’t fix the major water damage on house left of the auditorium, but it would help. It sounds crazy I know but that is probably a lot more feasible than trying to find the deep pockets necessary to do a total restoration for a fraction of the return on investment.
You’re right. I searched the site and only found a December 2006 issue of NYCVision that made mention of the Kings. Other than that, there is nothing.
One door for the orchestra and the other for the organ. Jeez you’re really whetting my appetite. Are there any stage elevators or trap doors? Is there a possibility to get in to get pictures????
Bruce – I know you have been to the theater numerous times. What you describe about the A/C system are just the kinds of things I am interested in. I want to see the stage rigging, the lifts, basement, attic, etc. Those are the things that interest me the most in these old theaters. It would be great to get in there and really document not just what theatergoers saw years ago but what they didn’t. I work in television and have a good DVCAM camera and a nice digital SLR. If you can ever get in for a good amount of time, please let me know I would love to shoot it all. Maybe we could do a piece similar to what A&E did but much more in depth.
Again LuisV is right on the money, no pun intended. If there was some seed money to get the roof fixed to prevent further damage that would be a start. It may not be the same as committing 35 million dollars for a total renovation but it would show others that there is interest. I can only imagine what people must have thought when they saw the building last year. It does look like the EDC is just looking for someone to take The Kings off their hands.
I agree with LuisV. Many successful theater or PAC’s are in less than stellar neighborhoods. If you build it, they will come certainly would apply in this case. The restoration of the theater could be the starting point of a neighborhood renaissance. When others see that money is being spent, that will encourage more people to take a chance.
I’m not faulting Markowitz, the city certainly has limited resources. I was wondering what could be done on the federal level. They spend millions of dollars on studying the sleeping habits of rare breeds of birds so why not put some money into something that would truly benefit many (people that is.) Maybe if they had done that in the beginning instead of waiting for the white knight things wouldn’t be so grave.
You know I hate to say this but I think the main stumbling block here is the city. Its a shame that they took ownership of the place . I know much has been said about what we don’t want the place to become but a performance type TV studio (programming requiring an audience)isn’t such a bad idea or it could certainly be used as a movie location. The city is looking for someone who can come it with buckets of money and rehab the place. That kind of money just doesn’t come in for a performing arts center. We hear all of these stories in the press about the incredible amount of pork barrel spending our elected officials get for their areas. How about Marty petitioning local politicians for a couple of million (not much if you look at the amounts some groups get) the Kings way to fix the roof to prevent further damage and the lighting. Then let volunteers deal with the rest. Tall order? Sure but it is better than nothing. Look at the Loew’s Jersey. I know that building was in much better shape to start with but at least they are giving it a go. Does this sound like something that could heppen……Marty are you listening??????
A friend of mine is a freelance editor and works at A&E and saw the program yesterday. The segment is between 15 to 18 minutes and prominently features the Loew’s Jersey and the Kings. Some interviews and, what is most important to this group, interior footage.
If anyone gets or has access to the Theater Organ Journal of the American Theater Organ Society, there are pictures of the Kings in their current issue. The pictures include an exterior shot and the proscenium when the theater opened, the inner ant outer lobbys and even a picture of the great Billy Nalle playing the Robert-Morton organ. The pictures are from the Theatre Historical Society.