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Cinemaon
Aug 22, 2014 at 9:51 pm
Without a doubt, the Jenifer (under GCC ownership) and the MacArthur (under Circle) played Jedi in 1983. The Cinema played Close Encounters in 35mm, for sure. The 70mm projectors (from the Apex) didn’t get installed until 1980 for Empire. I believe that the Cinema was still using an Eprad Starscope processor the Close Encounters, rather than a genuine Dolby CP50. However, in 1980, it did get its Dolby CP200.
In SILVER 2. It would be near impossible to turn off the surrounds. They played at whatever level they were recorded. Perhaps with the even coverage, you just don’t pick them out as well.
Unfortunately…there isn’t a “Surround button.” It is a format selection. The Silver’s sound processor is the mighty Dolby CP200. You can see it here: http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/picview.php?id=4785&category=1
The possible formats for it can be seen here: http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/picview.php?id=4786&category=1
As I said about the AFI/Silver…its levels and balance are spot-on and the surround coverage is very uniform. If you aren’t hearing the surrounds it is because it wasn’t recorded or possibly the system was in the wrong format.
Jodar…I can assure you, the surrounds are calibrated to the proper level in all three theatres. They only play what is recorded on the film/video. Most home systems have the surrounds goosed up because people love to hear them but that doesn’t make it right.
As to the films coming with instructions…sadly no. One has to do a bit of investigation in order to decide what NR and format to use. A possible mistake is to play a mono-surround movie in stereo surround. For 70mm magnetic, this would have the surrounds seem like they are off or very muffled as only the frequencies below 500Hz play. For a DTS-70 movie, it is up to the soundtrack supplied and matching the format. Typically they have done a standard 5.1 mix and/or a traditional “Todd-Ao” mix with 5-screen channels and mono surrounds. If a DTS-70 had the wrong format selected…you’d hear dialog out of the surrounds or the reverse, surrounds out of LC/RC.
The inspection sheet they fill out when a print is checked in should really reduce that chance though. They really do try to get the format correct and don’t just guess.
The projectionists at the AFI/Silver are pretty darn good at getting things like formats correct and they can run most all of them. Since the width of all of the formats (except scope) in 35mm is the same (.825")…even if they had the wrong lens/plate, the width would not have been cropped…unless the masking was closed in too far. Did you see the missing parts of the words projected on the masking?
Since all three theatres can project 4K and since Samsara was shot in 65mm but intended for 4K release (there are numerous discussions about its release format)…any of the theatres would have presented it in 4K. I did look at it briefly while setting up the projectors…it looks pretty stunning. Not 70mm stunning but clearly better than 35mm.
As for DTS transfers of older titles…If it was there in the original mix, it will be there in the DTS version. Now, with DTS, they have often tried to preserve the original 6-track mix and that may require re patching the tracks at the theater to get everything to come out of the right channels. Typically,Ls/Rs channels become LC/RC the SW becomes the Surround channel. The AFI can do this by patching or by format selection on the CP200.
On magnetic 70mm, if format 43 was selected for a format 42 movie, one would loose all of the HF of the surrounds.
That said, surrounds were used MUCH more sparingly, back in the day.
Sound of Music will be 35mm this go around. The new DCinema systems will not be in in time. As for the mix, the only proper one is the 70mm mix.You really can’t do panned dialog on the big screen without 5 screen channels. The space between the speakers is too great with just 3. The Sound of Music was very much mixed for 5.
I set up both the Ambler and the AFI/Silver and both are set to the same level balance…which is to say they are calibrated as precisely as I can do using THX certified equipment (the AFI remains THX certified). If there are not enough surrounds, it wasn’t in the mix or the wrong format was chosen on the sound processor. If it is a DTS-70mm, the odds are much less likely though.
The AFI’s Historic theatre does have some odd acoustics that can affect one’s interpretation of the sound. In fact, some mono movies have been accused of having surrounds!
I really don’t remember Raiders being in 70mm for the anniversary at the Uptown (note, I ran it in 70mm on the original release in 1981 at the KB Cinema and then in 1982 in 70mm at the KB MacArthur…it was the movie that closed the MacA as a single.
I too wish that the Uptown remained a show place and retained its 70mm projectors…it would be my preferred place to watch big-screen movies…but with how the Uptown is being run…what would be the point?
Note, the AFI/Silver will likely run the new 70mm movie that just premiered in Chicago called The Master
Patton was in 70mm DTS and did retain the original mix. Not all new prints are DTS…remember if one is doing a one-off or two-off…there is an extra step in creating the DTS track and then printing it.
Remember, the trick is to get things that are actually available. Also, the goal was for movies shot in 65mm or VV. Star Trek was all shot 35mm CinemaScope. It is a decent first offering of a festival and diverse.
I’m sure any 70mm showings would be with existing prints…which would really limit the Star Treks (all were 35mm blow ups too). Any 70mm print struck before 1983 would also be very pink.
As for 2001 and Lawrence…they play so much due to availability…Warner Bros and Columbia keep those prints in stock as they do get a return on investment. Lawrence was also restored so its INs are readily available and one need not go through another check-print phase…driving the cost up.
Heads up, the AFI/Silver is looking to do a 70mm film festival later this year. The AFI/Silver is becoming the DC-Metro area’s last 70mm venue.
I’ll admit, was not too impressed with the prints of WSS or Tron. I can assure you, the flaws observed were not due to the AFI/Silver…their system can only deliver what is on the print.
Like others, I stopped getting updates from CinemaTreasures after the update so I missed a few. As for the 35/70 projectors…Starting in 1954, the Uptown did have Norelco Todd/Ao projectors, which were replaced (relocated to the Cinema-7 theatre in Baileys Crossroads, VA), once 3-strip Cinerama was replaced by single strip (Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World), the Century “Cinerama” projectors were used until the end of film projection at the Uptown. I have not been in the theatre since 2005 so I do not know their disposition. AMC does not own the theatre nor the equipment so I don’t know what there obligation is on the disposal or retention of the fixed assets of the theatre.
No…I didn’t start working the Mac A until the end of 1980 and was there full-time for a good bit of 1982 (I was the chief projectionist there in 1982 from the beginning of the summer until the end and was then transferred to the K-B Cinema).
Phil is absolutely correct in his memory of the people so I would believe the rest. The projectionist at the Mac A was “Buddy” (real name Herman Bierly sp?) The “chap” named Tim was Tim Taylor who was the manager in 1980 when I started there…he moved from the Mac A to the Fine Arts before 1982 and died in a Moped accident (he was riding the Moped on a rainy night between the Fine Arts and his house).
As to theatres having “problems” if there were few people there to see the movie…I have witnessed such events so again, I can certainly believe it. Note, it was NOT K-B’s policy to EVERY cancel a show. If someone came out to see the movie…even if it was just one, we showed the movie. Now sometimes a manager would entice 1 or 2 people to leave by refunding their money, giving passes…etc.
As for the “clowns”…Buddy has long ago passed on but was regarded as one of the best projectionists in the Washington DC area, ever. I never knew or knew of a Herman Owens. The only manager for the Mac A prior to my tenure there that I knew was Hal Malone.
The layout was pretty basic. Looking from the parking lot towards the theatre…Theatre 1 was on your left, theatres 2, 3, 4 were in the rear and theatre 5 was on your right with the lobby separating theatres 1 and 5.
As for sound Theatres 1, 4, and 5 supported stereo sound and by the time it closed they always had stereo (normally Dolby, sometimes EPRAD…theatre #4 normally had the EPRAD Starscope). The speakers behind the screen were JBL 4670s in 1, 4, 5 with Frazier surrounds. Theatres 2 and 3 were always mono and featured JBL 4673s behind the screen (early ones).
For Star Trek II…it was 70mm 6-track Dolby Stereo on ALL presentations…no the noise reduction would not have been on on some shows, off on others.
As to the processor…as a single, it was a K-B Theatre…as a Triple, it was a Circle theatre (and then Cineplex after Circle sold the chain).
Strictly due to the fact that the Dolby CP200 was THE 70mm processor of the industry from 1980 until its discontinuation in about 1994 (which is about when 70mm died out in favor of digital audio)…yes under Circle, there was a CP200 used in the large theatre (with CP50s in the two smaller theatres).
Without a doubt, the Jenifer (under GCC ownership) and the MacArthur (under Circle) played Jedi in 1983. The Cinema played Close Encounters in 35mm, for sure. The 70mm projectors (from the Apex) didn’t get installed until 1980 for Empire. I believe that the Cinema was still using an Eprad Starscope processor the Close Encounters, rather than a genuine Dolby CP50. However, in 1980, it did get its Dolby CP200.
The digital equipment is installed (both picture and sound). Long live the Taylor.
In SILVER 2. It would be near impossible to turn off the surrounds. They played at whatever level they were recorded. Perhaps with the even coverage, you just don’t pick them out as well.
Unfortunately…there isn’t a “Surround button.” It is a format selection. The Silver’s sound processor is the mighty Dolby CP200. You can see it here: http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/picview.php?id=4785&category=1
The possible formats for it can be seen here: http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/picview.php?id=4786&category=1
As I said about the AFI/Silver…its levels and balance are spot-on and the surround coverage is very uniform. If you aren’t hearing the surrounds it is because it wasn’t recorded or possibly the system was in the wrong format.
Jodar…I can assure you, the surrounds are calibrated to the proper level in all three theatres. They only play what is recorded on the film/video. Most home systems have the surrounds goosed up because people love to hear them but that doesn’t make it right.
As to the films coming with instructions…sadly no. One has to do a bit of investigation in order to decide what NR and format to use. A possible mistake is to play a mono-surround movie in stereo surround. For 70mm magnetic, this would have the surrounds seem like they are off or very muffled as only the frequencies below 500Hz play. For a DTS-70 movie, it is up to the soundtrack supplied and matching the format. Typically they have done a standard 5.1 mix and/or a traditional “Todd-Ao” mix with 5-screen channels and mono surrounds. If a DTS-70 had the wrong format selected…you’d hear dialog out of the surrounds or the reverse, surrounds out of LC/RC.
The inspection sheet they fill out when a print is checked in should really reduce that chance though. They really do try to get the format correct and don’t just guess.
Theatres 2 and 3 are upgraded now.1 is not. With each upgrade comes the 7.1 sound. Note, they are all surround EX already, since day-1.
Understandable. Personally,I don’t feel that anything is a good sub to 70mm.
The truth is, theatre 2 has about the same size screen as 1. Theatre 2 has much better acoustics than 1. It is my preferred theatre.
The projectionists at the AFI/Silver are pretty darn good at getting things like formats correct and they can run most all of them. Since the width of all of the formats (except scope) in 35mm is the same (.825")…even if they had the wrong lens/plate, the width would not have been cropped…unless the masking was closed in too far. Did you see the missing parts of the words projected on the masking?
Since all three theatres can project 4K and since Samsara was shot in 65mm but intended for 4K release (there are numerous discussions about its release format)…any of the theatres would have presented it in 4K. I did look at it briefly while setting up the projectors…it looks pretty stunning. Not 70mm stunning but clearly better than 35mm.
As for DTS transfers of older titles…If it was there in the original mix, it will be there in the DTS version. Now, with DTS, they have often tried to preserve the original 6-track mix and that may require re patching the tracks at the theater to get everything to come out of the right channels. Typically,Ls/Rs channels become LC/RC the SW becomes the Surround channel. The AFI can do this by patching or by format selection on the CP200.
On magnetic 70mm, if format 43 was selected for a format 42 movie, one would loose all of the HF of the surrounds.
That said, surrounds were used MUCH more sparingly, back in the day.
Sound of Music will be 35mm this go around. The new DCinema systems will not be in in time. As for the mix, the only proper one is the 70mm mix.You really can’t do panned dialog on the big screen without 5 screen channels. The space between the speakers is too great with just 3. The Sound of Music was very much mixed for 5.
I set up both the Ambler and the AFI/Silver and both are set to the same level balance…which is to say they are calibrated as precisely as I can do using THX certified equipment (the AFI remains THX certified). If there are not enough surrounds, it wasn’t in the mix or the wrong format was chosen on the sound processor. If it is a DTS-70mm, the odds are much less likely though.
The AFI’s Historic theatre does have some odd acoustics that can affect one’s interpretation of the sound. In fact, some mono movies have been accused of having surrounds!
Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World is playing in Ultra Panavision 70mm this weekend at the AFI/Silver
I really don’t remember Raiders being in 70mm for the anniversary at the Uptown (note, I ran it in 70mm on the original release in 1981 at the KB Cinema and then in 1982 in 70mm at the KB MacArthur…it was the movie that closed the MacA as a single.
I too wish that the Uptown remained a show place and retained its 70mm projectors…it would be my preferred place to watch big-screen movies…but with how the Uptown is being run…what would be the point?
Note, the AFI/Silver will likely run the new 70mm movie that just premiered in Chicago called The Master
SG
Patton was in 70mm DTS and did retain the original mix. Not all new prints are DTS…remember if one is doing a one-off or two-off…there is an extra step in creating the DTS track and then printing it.
Remember, the trick is to get things that are actually available. Also, the goal was for movies shot in 65mm or VV. Star Trek was all shot 35mm CinemaScope. It is a decent first offering of a festival and diverse.
Patton will be playing there on Memorial Sunday/Monday! They are going to try and get as many titles as possible.
Hello Dolly would be from a relatively recent print (it has played the AFI/Silver before).
I’m sure any 70mm showings would be with existing prints…which would really limit the Star Treks (all were 35mm blow ups too). Any 70mm print struck before 1983 would also be very pink.
As for 2001 and Lawrence…they play so much due to availability…Warner Bros and Columbia keep those prints in stock as they do get a return on investment. Lawrence was also restored so its INs are readily available and one need not go through another check-print phase…driving the cost up.
But let them know what you want.
Heads up, the AFI/Silver is looking to do a 70mm film festival later this year. The AFI/Silver is becoming the DC-Metro area’s last 70mm venue.
I’ll admit, was not too impressed with the prints of WSS or Tron. I can assure you, the flaws observed were not due to the AFI/Silver…their system can only deliver what is on the print.
-Steve
Like others, I stopped getting updates from CinemaTreasures after the update so I missed a few. As for the 35/70 projectors…Starting in 1954, the Uptown did have Norelco Todd/Ao projectors, which were replaced (relocated to the Cinema-7 theatre in Baileys Crossroads, VA), once 3-strip Cinerama was replaced by single strip (Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World), the Century “Cinerama” projectors were used until the end of film projection at the Uptown. I have not been in the theatre since 2005 so I do not know their disposition. AMC does not own the theatre nor the equipment so I don’t know what there obligation is on the disposal or retention of the fixed assets of the theatre.
-Steve
The pylon (aka vertical) is working at the Ambler.
Note, all three theatres currently feature Kinoton FP30E Premiere projectors with 3-wing shutter mode so the images should be flicker-free!
The folks that run the Ambler (and County theatre in Doylestown) really do try to do the best by the movies they show.
No…I didn’t start working the Mac A until the end of 1980 and was there full-time for a good bit of 1982 (I was the chief projectionist there in 1982 from the beginning of the summer until the end and was then transferred to the K-B Cinema).
Phil is absolutely correct in his memory of the people so I would believe the rest. The projectionist at the Mac A was “Buddy” (real name Herman Bierly sp?) The “chap” named Tim was Tim Taylor who was the manager in 1980 when I started there…he moved from the Mac A to the Fine Arts before 1982 and died in a Moped accident (he was riding the Moped on a rainy night between the Fine Arts and his house).
As to theatres having “problems” if there were few people there to see the movie…I have witnessed such events so again, I can certainly believe it. Note, it was NOT K-B’s policy to EVERY cancel a show. If someone came out to see the movie…even if it was just one, we showed the movie. Now sometimes a manager would entice 1 or 2 people to leave by refunding their money, giving passes…etc.
As for the “clowns”…Buddy has long ago passed on but was regarded as one of the best projectionists in the Washington DC area, ever. I never knew or knew of a Herman Owens. The only manager for the Mac A prior to my tenure there that I knew was Hal Malone.
SG
The layout was pretty basic. Looking from the parking lot towards the theatre…Theatre 1 was on your left, theatres 2, 3, 4 were in the rear and theatre 5 was on your right with the lobby separating theatres 1 and 5.
As for sound Theatres 1, 4, and 5 supported stereo sound and by the time it closed they always had stereo (normally Dolby, sometimes EPRAD…theatre #4 normally had the EPRAD Starscope). The speakers behind the screen were JBL 4670s in 1, 4, 5 with Frazier surrounds. Theatres 2 and 3 were always mono and featured JBL 4673s behind the screen (early ones).
SG
For Star Trek II…it was 70mm 6-track Dolby Stereo on ALL presentations…no the noise reduction would not have been on on some shows, off on others.
As to the processor…as a single, it was a K-B Theatre…as a Triple, it was a Circle theatre (and then Cineplex after Circle sold the chain).
Strictly due to the fact that the Dolby CP200 was THE 70mm processor of the industry from 1980 until its discontinuation in about 1994 (which is about when 70mm died out in favor of digital audio)…yes under Circle, there was a CP200 used in the large theatre (with CP50s in the two smaller theatres).
Steve