I remember telling a ticket seller there who had been there for years
(during the forties she had been at the Strand) that Harry and Walter was not going to be exclusive to the Music Hall in the metro area and she responded that that was it, it was all over and she was right.
Of course the Music Hall hastened its own demise by its threadbare and amateurish stage shows of the period. They got rid of the ballet company which was the backbone of the spectacles(Bolero, Rhapsody in Blue, the Undersea Ballet etc.) which was really the raison d'etre of the Hall and the Rockettes were cut back to 30.
The only (mediocre)spectacle today is at Christmas and I want to know why they got rid of the Leonidoff Renaissance Nativity(which even Pauline Kael liked!) and replaced it with a piece of Christian fundamentalist nonsense.
Simon L how do you know all this great stuff? Did you attend the MH during this era?
I think that during the 70’s 2001 made below 90 grand. Also during the 70’s films were kept well past their expiration date. Airport played well after its grosses dropped and I worked there during Robin and Marian which seemed to play forever which even before and during Easter week played to empty houses. After that was 1776 and The Blubird where you could have shot off cannons and not harmed a soul(you’ve never seen an emptier and sadder theater than the Music Hall in the mid 70’s.)An old man there who had been a Roxy usher in the late 20’s told me that The Odd Couple had as many people on its last day after 14 weeks as it had on opening day. And a ticket seller told me it was the last film where the pressure was unrelenting. How in the world did things change so fast?
Simon L- Knights of the Round Table was the first cinemascope at the Music Hall. Sorry to hear about the new curtain as it used to have many vertical folds. But then the place is no longer Radio City Music Hall(and Rockefeller Center is now a 5th Av Paramus Park.)
Sorry I can’t join you guys bemoaning the fate of the Astor Plaza.
Especially since I’m still mourning the loss of the Astor Hotel, one of New York’s truly great buildings, which it replaced!
As I’ve said before I remember being a little boy in ‘68 and looking into the gaping whole where this theater was about to be built while literally across the street Funny Girl was playing at the Criterion in the last hurrah of first class roadshow presentation. That being said I will go one more time because maybe I have missed something.
Anyway the Murnau festival will be at Film Forum so you all have something to look forward to!
Just want to let you know that FF will be have one of its not to be missed festivals in Sept. thanks to Bruce G and Steve Sterner.
This will be the Murnau(is he the greatest of them all? It’s open to debate but definately he is one of the most worthy contenders. And Sunrise not number one on the AFI list! If there is a greater american film please let me know I which one it is.)
This will rate along with the Lubitsch and Stiller/Sjorstrom festivals as one of their best which says a lot.(I think I was the only one who went to the latter but the films were so haunting and beautiful they will remain with me for the rest of my life.)
Bruce and Steve, I hate to be greedy but do we see a DW Griffith festival in your future?(And just think that until recently the Liberty still stood on 42nd St.)
Peter,
I liked the Biograph very much but again the scope screen wasn’t large enough in relation to the theater.
The excellent programmer there Frank Crowley was the one who also made the Regency such a success.
By the way don’t waste any portion of your life watching Hennesy or Petrovka. I just saw them because they were playing at the Music Hall. At that point the Hall should have just played classic films because what they were showing was so bad they should have been ashamed.
Bill the wide screen in 1 is not so bad because of the placement of the screen but to tell you the truth they might be the same size. But unfortunately the only widescreen revivals there that I know have been Contempt and Rochefort. They should do all scope in that theater. But the Watt screen in 2 was much larger. Bye Bye Birdie in that old theater was sensational. Haven’t seen it that good since and it is one of my favorites. To have seen it at the Music Hall…
Peter I honestly was not trying to insult you, however my swipes at Film Forum are genuine.
I consider a real theater to be one that is architecurally mean’t to be more than a modest sized screening room. One that is meant to enhance the presentation of a film. A theater that gives a film size and scope and at the same time is a pleasure to sit in as one waits for the lights to dim and for the curtains to part. A real theater lends the occasion excitement.
For documentaries and contemporary art films the Forum is fine as these films would be as well presented on a DVD. However for many of the films Bruce likes to show(not all but most) the size of the auditoriums and the screens often diminish a film.
Screen two of the old Watts St had a really good head-on scope screen that I miss. Now the scope screen puts the letter into letterboxing.
In a way I’m glad you were insulted as you revealed to me some of your youthful movie experiences.We are about the same age and being that I grew up in the suburbs I can only say that I envy you your
trips to the Music Hall during the 60’s. I started going to the Music Hall in ‘70 and by that time the films were pretty much dreck. (Has anybody else alive seen Henessy or the Girl from Petrovka?)
With Cablevision in charge the Music Hall is a lost cause. The rock concerts in no way utilize the potential of the place and now they’re using the greatest theater in the world for basketball games!!
I wouldn’t call the Forum a bunker but I would say they are shoeboxes with a screen attached at the end. And I would still say Bruce G and Steve Stern deserve better. Long may they be part of New York’s cultural life!
Count me in Ziggy. Though I too would be long distance. This is one of the greatest buildings now in the NY metro area.Remember that developers had to be held off to prevent Carnegie Hall and Grand central from being demolished. Can you imagine they tore down the old Met and Penn Station? And now they want to build a stadium in Manhattan!!! Which they wouldnt even do in the begining of the last century when the city was so much less congested!!! Sometimes I think New Yorkers are idiots.
Peter, If you have to ask me how is Film Forum not a “real” movie theater well then I guess you’ve never been to one. I guess you’re pretty young and grew up going to the plexes. Let’s just say that Film Forum is nothing but a collection of small screening rooms and they in no way do justice to Bruce’s programs and the quality prints he often shows.
This wish has as much chance of fufillment as my wish of seeing the Music Hall present a summer festival of film classics along with a complete stage show with the Rockettes, ballet company, symphony orchestra.
Bruce Goldstein is the best. He is second to none. I only wish he had a real movie theater in which to show his programs. If I had my wish there would be a American Cinemateque in the old Mayfair in Times Square along with a smaller theater where he would curate to his and our hearts content.
Mike as a boy I saw My Fair Lady at the Criterion during its first run and then in ‘76 as a teenager I saw 2001 at the Rivoli. Talk about your religious experiences!
So who is this guy saps? I’ve been writing the same stuff for months now on the Ziegfeld and Astor sites. This is somebody after my own heart. This is a classic NY house not the Astor Plaza which is nothing but a 70’s warehouse. This should be a great NY house and the place for major premieres and used as a 70mm Todd AO amd Cinerama revival house. Where is this guy Scorcese and his rich friends? I thought they loved movies. Lets make a widescreen house happen! With the paycheck from just one movie they could make this a reality.
By the way Mike from Oakland the loss of the Criterion still makes me sick. I can barely go past the block. God what a great movie theater. It was probably the most coveted road show house in NY. Even more than the Rivoli which was pretty magnificent itself.
I always wondered why the screen from that era into the early fifties was so tiny. How did 6,000 people collectively concentrate on such a tiny screen film after film without constantly being distracted or losing interest?
Bill I beleive the ‘71 reissue of Lawrence at the Rivoli was in 70mm but it was cut so badly to allow more frequent performances that the NY Times published a piece in its Arts and Leisure section detailing the mauling. Reading this kept me from going.
Joe Masher that’s great news. With a lot of publicity and increasing interest in Todd AO and 70mm you should get some sizeable crowds and you won’t have to share the films with anybody else like you have to with Terminal. But is there any way to get rid of the detritus now shown before the film. When you showed Lady, Spartucus and Lawrence years ago it was so classy.
But those films were blow up which is simply a marketing tool. To have seen “true” 70mm at the Ziegfeld recently you would have had to have seen Lawrence and Lady.
The Ziegfeld should show Lady again for its 40th anniversary in the fall and Music in the spring in Todd AO for its birthday. And get Wise to come to New York to celebrate its world premiere in New York at the Rivoli 40 years ago.
I don’t like the movie Dolly very much (I wish Donen had directed it. Kelly wasn’t much good by himself as a director) but the production design is stupendous. Yes seeing a movie in 70mm makes a helluva difference.
For you New Yorkers reading this site how about starting a widescreen film club. What do you guys and gals think? This way even recent widescreen films would not be consigned to DVDs(and whatever comes next) for ever.
Our Mottos
SIZE DOES MATTER
1:35 Take it Away!
3 Strip Cinerama Lives!
There’s 70mm In Your Future
With all the reviews about the new “80 Days” it is pointed out that the original is considered the most unworthy film to win a best picture Oscar. I guess they’ve never seen Rocky or Ordinary People.
This building is still up and the city of Hackensack wants to tear it down?!! Are they out of their minds? Historically and architecturally this is maybe one of the two or three most important buildings in Hackensack. I’m sure the bank can find many places in the city for parking. How about a few of the million car dealerships nearby?
I saw Lawrence 3 times at the Ziegfeld in ‘92 and it looked magnificent(the print that is.The screen is still too small.) But then Lean, O'Toole and Sharif were there opening night and the theater gave it during the run the full deluxe road show treatment(without the reserved seats)including curtains and no commercials or coming attractions. The only thing better would have been to see it in the Criterion(which still existed pre Toys.)
Regarding the Loews Jersey the screen is too small for 70mm (at 50ft). Considering the size of the theater the relatively narrow procenium cannot give widescreen its full splendor(its got a somewhat letterbox look) though it is okay for cinemascope and far preferable to seeing scope at the Film Forum which is a joke though they boast about presenting films in widescreen all the time(Bruce G. please find a theater worthy of your terrific programming skills.)
I remember telling a ticket seller there who had been there for years
(during the forties she had been at the Strand) that Harry and Walter was not going to be exclusive to the Music Hall in the metro area and she responded that that was it, it was all over and she was right.
Of course the Music Hall hastened its own demise by its threadbare and amateurish stage shows of the period. They got rid of the ballet company which was the backbone of the spectacles(Bolero, Rhapsody in Blue, the Undersea Ballet etc.) which was really the raison d'etre of the Hall and the Rockettes were cut back to 30.
The only (mediocre)spectacle today is at Christmas and I want to know why they got rid of the Leonidoff Renaissance Nativity(which even Pauline Kael liked!) and replaced it with a piece of Christian fundamentalist nonsense.
Simon L how do you know all this great stuff? Did you attend the MH during this era?
I think that during the 70’s 2001 made below 90 grand. Also during the 70’s films were kept well past their expiration date. Airport played well after its grosses dropped and I worked there during Robin and Marian which seemed to play forever which even before and during Easter week played to empty houses. After that was 1776 and The Blubird where you could have shot off cannons and not harmed a soul(you’ve never seen an emptier and sadder theater than the Music Hall in the mid 70’s.)An old man there who had been a Roxy usher in the late 20’s told me that The Odd Couple had as many people on its last day after 14 weeks as it had on opening day. And a ticket seller told me it was the last film where the pressure was unrelenting. How in the world did things change so fast?
Simon L- Knights of the Round Table was the first cinemascope at the Music Hall. Sorry to hear about the new curtain as it used to have many vertical folds. But then the place is no longer Radio City Music Hall(and Rockefeller Center is now a 5th Av Paramus Park.)
Sorry I can’t join you guys bemoaning the fate of the Astor Plaza.
Especially since I’m still mourning the loss of the Astor Hotel, one of New York’s truly great buildings, which it replaced!
As I’ve said before I remember being a little boy in ‘68 and looking into the gaping whole where this theater was about to be built while literally across the street Funny Girl was playing at the Criterion in the last hurrah of first class roadshow presentation. That being said I will go one more time because maybe I have missed something.
Anyway the Murnau festival will be at Film Forum so you all have something to look forward to!
Just want to let you know that FF will be have one of its not to be missed festivals in Sept. thanks to Bruce G and Steve Sterner.
This will be the Murnau(is he the greatest of them all? It’s open to debate but definately he is one of the most worthy contenders. And Sunrise not number one on the AFI list! If there is a greater american film please let me know I which one it is.)
This will rate along with the Lubitsch and Stiller/Sjorstrom festivals as one of their best which says a lot.(I think I was the only one who went to the latter but the films were so haunting and beautiful they will remain with me for the rest of my life.)
Bruce and Steve, I hate to be greedy but do we see a DW Griffith festival in your future?(And just think that until recently the Liberty still stood on 42nd St.)
Peter,
I liked the Biograph very much but again the scope screen wasn’t large enough in relation to the theater.
The excellent programmer there Frank Crowley was the one who also made the Regency such a success.
By the way don’t waste any portion of your life watching Hennesy or Petrovka. I just saw them because they were playing at the Music Hall. At that point the Hall should have just played classic films because what they were showing was so bad they should have been ashamed.
Bill the wide screen in 1 is not so bad because of the placement of the screen but to tell you the truth they might be the same size. But unfortunately the only widescreen revivals there that I know have been Contempt and Rochefort. They should do all scope in that theater. But the Watt screen in 2 was much larger. Bye Bye Birdie in that old theater was sensational. Haven’t seen it that good since and it is one of my favorites. To have seen it at the Music Hall…
Peter I honestly was not trying to insult you, however my swipes at Film Forum are genuine.
I consider a real theater to be one that is architecurally mean’t to be more than a modest sized screening room. One that is meant to enhance the presentation of a film. A theater that gives a film size and scope and at the same time is a pleasure to sit in as one waits for the lights to dim and for the curtains to part. A real theater lends the occasion excitement.
For documentaries and contemporary art films the Forum is fine as these films would be as well presented on a DVD. However for many of the films Bruce likes to show(not all but most) the size of the auditoriums and the screens often diminish a film.
Screen two of the old Watts St had a really good head-on scope screen that I miss. Now the scope screen puts the letter into letterboxing.
In a way I’m glad you were insulted as you revealed to me some of your youthful movie experiences.We are about the same age and being that I grew up in the suburbs I can only say that I envy you your
trips to the Music Hall during the 60’s. I started going to the Music Hall in ‘70 and by that time the films were pretty much dreck. (Has anybody else alive seen Henessy or the Girl from Petrovka?)
With Cablevision in charge the Music Hall is a lost cause. The rock concerts in no way utilize the potential of the place and now they’re using the greatest theater in the world for basketball games!!
I wouldn’t call the Forum a bunker but I would say they are shoeboxes with a screen attached at the end. And I would still say Bruce G and Steve Stern deserve better. Long may they be part of New York’s cultural life!
Count me in Ziggy. Though I too would be long distance. This is one of the greatest buildings now in the NY metro area.Remember that developers had to be held off to prevent Carnegie Hall and Grand central from being demolished. Can you imagine they tore down the old Met and Penn Station? And now they want to build a stadium in Manhattan!!! Which they wouldnt even do in the begining of the last century when the city was so much less congested!!! Sometimes I think New Yorkers are idiots.
Peter, If you have to ask me how is Film Forum not a “real” movie theater well then I guess you’ve never been to one. I guess you’re pretty young and grew up going to the plexes. Let’s just say that Film Forum is nothing but a collection of small screening rooms and they in no way do justice to Bruce’s programs and the quality prints he often shows.
This wish has as much chance of fufillment as my wish of seeing the Music Hall present a summer festival of film classics along with a complete stage show with the Rockettes, ballet company, symphony orchestra.
Bruce Goldstein is the best. He is second to none. I only wish he had a real movie theater in which to show his programs. If I had my wish there would be a American Cinemateque in the old Mayfair in Times Square along with a smaller theater where he would curate to his and our hearts content.
Mike as a boy I saw My Fair Lady at the Criterion during its first run and then in ‘76 as a teenager I saw 2001 at the Rivoli. Talk about your religious experiences!
So who is this guy saps? I’ve been writing the same stuff for months now on the Ziegfeld and Astor sites. This is somebody after my own heart. This is a classic NY house not the Astor Plaza which is nothing but a 70’s warehouse. This should be a great NY house and the place for major premieres and used as a 70mm Todd AO amd Cinerama revival house. Where is this guy Scorcese and his rich friends? I thought they loved movies. Lets make a widescreen house happen! With the paycheck from just one movie they could make this a reality.
By the way Mike from Oakland the loss of the Criterion still makes me sick. I can barely go past the block. God what a great movie theater. It was probably the most coveted road show house in NY. Even more than the Rivoli which was pretty magnificent itself.
I always wondered why the screen from that era into the early fifties was so tiny. How did 6,000 people collectively concentrate on such a tiny screen film after film without constantly being distracted or losing interest?
Bill I beleive the ‘71 reissue of Lawrence at the Rivoli was in 70mm but it was cut so badly to allow more frequent performances that the NY Times published a piece in its Arts and Leisure section detailing the mauling. Reading this kept me from going.
Joe Masher that’s great news. With a lot of publicity and increasing interest in Todd AO and 70mm you should get some sizeable crowds and you won’t have to share the films with anybody else like you have to with Terminal. But is there any way to get rid of the detritus now shown before the film. When you showed Lady, Spartucus and Lawrence years ago it was so classy.
Joe Masher what is the possibility of this?
But those films were blow up which is simply a marketing tool. To have seen “true” 70mm at the Ziegfeld recently you would have had to have seen Lawrence and Lady.
The Ziegfeld should show Lady again for its 40th anniversary in the fall and Music in the spring in Todd AO for its birthday. And get Wise to come to New York to celebrate its world premiere in New York at the Rivoli 40 years ago.
I don’t like the movie Dolly very much (I wish Donen had directed it. Kelly wasn’t much good by himself as a director) but the production design is stupendous. Yes seeing a movie in 70mm makes a helluva difference.
For you New Yorkers reading this site how about starting a widescreen film club. What do you guys and gals think? This way even recent widescreen films would not be consigned to DVDs(and whatever comes next) for ever.
Our Mottos
SIZE DOES MATTER
1:35 Take it Away!
3 Strip Cinerama Lives!
There’s 70mm In Your Future
With all the reviews about the new “80 Days” it is pointed out that the original is considered the most unworthy film to win a best picture Oscar. I guess they’ve never seen Rocky or Ordinary People.
Are there any 70mm revivals coming to this theater anytime soon?
This building is still up and the city of Hackensack wants to tear it down?!! Are they out of their minds? Historically and architecturally this is maybe one of the two or three most important buildings in Hackensack. I’m sure the bank can find many places in the city for parking. How about a few of the million car dealerships nearby?
I saw Lawrence 3 times at the Ziegfeld in ‘92 and it looked magnificent(the print that is.The screen is still too small.) But then Lean, O'Toole and Sharif were there opening night and the theater gave it during the run the full deluxe road show treatment(without the reserved seats)including curtains and no commercials or coming attractions. The only thing better would have been to see it in the Criterion(which still existed pre Toys.)
Regarding the Loews Jersey the screen is too small for 70mm (at 50ft). Considering the size of the theater the relatively narrow procenium cannot give widescreen its full splendor(its got a somewhat letterbox look) though it is okay for cinemascope and far preferable to seeing scope at the Film Forum which is a joke though they boast about presenting films in widescreen all the time(Bruce G. please find a theater worthy of your terrific programming skills.)
Bill thanks for clarifying that. Hell I would love to see anything on even a 60ft screen in NY.
This theater is magnificent. I had no idea. And in Staten Island of all places(only kidding.)
Let’s hope they have classic movie nights.
Can one visit this theater and how does one get there from NY or NJ?