I am definitely lost, Lost! The c of o’s you’re looking at for 732 Seventh and 1604 B'way must be a building to the north of the old Studebaker and possibly immediately adjacent – since it did not occupy the entire block. Perhaps the Avon – closer to 48th Street – was on the ground floor of the Studebaker while the Frisco was in an adjacent structure. But at least now we are talking about the right block. Where was the Metropole Go Go in all of this… wasn’t it near here? Perhaps the cabaret? Al… do you recall?
Maybe I’ll just submit a “shell” listing for the Frisco with very limited information and we can then move this discussion to that page and try to solve the mystery without cluttering the Paree page.
Didn’t one of those “talkie” remakes involve the Ritz Brothers? The caricatures in that ad feature expressions similar to those in just about every Ritz Brothers publicity still I’ve ever seen! I guess to have them in the remake was a natural. And taken from a stage play, no less.
The original facade was pretty subdued, judging from that newspaper photo. Of course, we don’t have the advantage of a vintage color photograph… but here is an image from 1993 (which I previoulsy posted) with the ornamentation appearing to be largely intact. I’ll try to take some current day photos as soon as I get a chance. From driving by, I know the marquee has been spruced up – if not replaced – since ‘93.
Is it possible that the 1969 C/O for 598 seats be for the Cine Lido? While it had an address of 200 W. 48th, the building where it occupied space might have been known as 1578-1590 Broadway. And 1969 also coincides with the closing of Lou Walter’s Latin Quarter night club – which I believe was at least in part converted for the Cine Lido. AlAlvarez' listing for the Cine Lido lists the seating capacity at 575 which is pretty damn close.
It isn’t the Frisco. The Frisco was definitely “above” the Avon address of 724 Seventh Avenue. The address 710-720 is a block to the south. Ditto the 1578-1590 B'way address – between 47th nd 48th. The Avon and Frisco occupied space in the old Studebaker Building that had a main address of 1600 Broadway (as does the high rise luxury condo that replaced it).
In the thread on the Eros Theater page, RobertR posted a 1969 article that refers to a “New Mini Cinema” with 130 seats on Seventh Ave at 48th Street and AlAlvarez chimes in that the Mini operated in ‘73-'74 at 732 Seventh Ave. That address jibes with the location of the Frisco… could the two theaters have been the same, operating as the New Mini before changing to Frisco around '73-'74? If not, the Mini was just a door or two away from the Frisco.
Brian, I can’t recall your little rhyming games, but then I probably tried to steer clear of the Fresh Meadows when it was at its busiest on a Friday or Saturday night. However, we could have used you back in May when we debated the whole Boulevard vs. Expressway issue! Welcome to CT. I still enjoy attending theater #4 here when something decent is playing. I’ve been going to the Meadows since its earliest days as a Twin in the late ‘70’s. Attended Jr. High at George J. Ryan just a few blocks to the west across Utopia Parkway.
Speedrack… get down to the Ziegfeld Theater in Manhattan sometime over the weekend or next week and go relive those memories. “Jaws” is playing there as part of a “Classics” film festival.
From an ad I have for the Avon, I know that theater’s address was definitely 724 Seventh Ave just north of the corner of 48th and 7th. That would make the Frisco more like 730 or so. That would also mean we have a bit of a mystery theater attached to that C of O at 710-720.
Lost… the Frisco lasted into the early ‘80’s at least. I think 710-720 Seventh would be on the block of the old building between 47th and 48th that housed the Castro Convertible showroom and the Playland amusement arcade. I only assume this because across the street on the east side of the block you had the Mayfair/Demille at 707 Seventh, the CIne 1&2 at 711 and the Doll at 719. I always thought the Frisco and the Avon 7th were both on the 48th to 49th Street block.
I have this tiny photo of the Frisco marquee where you can see the Avon marquee down the block to the south. The marquee might actually read Avon II, which would have been an alternate name to distinguish it from the Avon on 42nd Street between 6th and B'way. Anyway, along the left side of the frame, you can barely make out the corner of the Mayfair/Demille building on 47th and the facade of the RKO Palace further down the street. That places the Frisco and Avon in the Studebaker building that ran between Seventh and B'way on the north side of 48th Street. That one square block bounded by 7th, B'way, 48h and 49th was littered with a number of porn establishments during the ‘70’s and '80’s.
The site where I found that photo (used in connection with a Roger Ebert piece) dates the image to 1973. And does 598 seats strike anyone else as being rather large for a porn theater during the days of 130 seat mini-cinemas?
Wow. Warren joins the Cub Scouts! Welcome to the party! A bit late, but welcome anyhow. Let me see if we have an Official Theater Address Finders badges left….
No, Al… I thought about that, but found that the San Francisco (whose submission to CT I am working on) was located on Broadway adjacent to the old Astor Theater in the space that used to be the Wax Museum for Ripley’s Believe It or Not! The Frisco was on Seventh Avenue between 48th and 49th, on the same block as the Avon 7th Ave.
Good Ole Art Theater… Seems like someone has sipped the elixir from the vial and unleashed Mr. Hyde. The thing is, I don’t think this particular “Dr. Jekyll” is all that mild mannered either!
Anyway, thanks for the two cents, “Art”… Hey wait, I have an idea! Instead of you wasting your time posting on this flea pit’s page and taking a dump all over anyone else’s appreciation for this old theater, how about YOU go on the Kings' page and contribute something positive to a cause in which you claim to actually believe! Go boggle some minds over there, will ya?
Does anyone know much about the history of the Rosemary? When did it open? Was it purpose built? I remember taking note of the large marquee while driving through the area back in the early ‘90’s and vaguely recall a rather large tan facade facing Canal on the north side of the street (I seem to remember it being on a bit of an angle, though that might just be the cut of the street as it turns towards the Manhattan Bridge). I wondered how long it had been around and what sort of movies it played. Is there a cinematic history prior to the 1982 C of O Lost Memory refers to above? My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I would have thought the place was bigger than just 473 seats and might possibly have held a balcony.
That’s always been a debated issue amongst movie entusiasts – subtitles vs. dubbing. Do we want the distraction of having to read the translation and keep the integrity of each actor’s performance whole, or will we suffer through even a hack dub-job so that are eyes need not be distracted from the images on screen? We might all agree that in certain cases (most Godzilla films and kung-fu epics) the hilarious dubbing might actually enhance the experience, but I personally find that subtitles work best in more seriously dramatic films, but it often depends on the film or director. I can’t imagine watching, say, an Ingmar Bergman film like “Wild Strawberries” dubbed over with American actors and missing half of Victor Sjostrom’s wonderful performance; he conveys so much with the tone of his voice in that film that one almost need not read the dialog. On the other hand, Fellini always shot silent and post-synched all of the dialog in his films – often having the actors recite the alphabet on set because the dialog was not yet written! Even then, at least the original Fellini dubs were performed by the same actors who appear on screen. It is rare that a film gets as expert and well directed a dubbing job as, say, “Das Boot.”
LuisV makes an excellent point, Bway, that the Spanish subtitles are primarily what keeps this theater afloat. I’m sure without benefit of those subtitles, the Plaza Theater in Corona wouldn’t even have lasted as long as it did. In the end, even that wasn’t enough. I have no problem with a business attempting to cater to the overwhelming population in its marketplace.
How long after its premier did that Showcase run begin, Robert? I think this was one of the earliest films I saw in theaters and it was probably at the Lefrak – which would have been closest to my home in Elmhurst at the time. Although, it might have been the Flushing Prospect as well.
And the former Grand is right up the block on the other side of the concrete RR trestle and towards the end of the elevated subway platform on the right (with the large parking lot behind it). The Grand is now a Key Food.
A word about the seating capacity. I found a C of O dated February of 1971 showing a capacity of 165 seats for a motion picture theater on the 2nd floor. A bit later in ‘72, another C of O was issed that seperated those 165 seats into 102 for the motion picture theater and 63 for an “eating and drinking place.” Not sure how that all fits together.
Articles in the NY Times published at the time of the theater’s closing indicate that patrons would actually be approached in the darkness of the screening room by women offering their services (the 30-minute massage mentioned above).
Apparently, the managers at Rockefeller Center were made aware that they were the primary landlord for this operation when the Mayor’s Office madde public a list of addresses and property owners where such establishments operated. It was with more than just a little embarrassment that the Center had to announce its plans to buy-out the lease and rid their property of the Paree. The lease arrangement, by the way, was via a complicated trail of subsidiaries and sub-lease agreements. Also involved in the chain was the Riese Brothers Organization, which at the time operated a number of chain eateries.
The distinctive neon lettering on the marquee of the Cinema Village is replicated to this day in newspaper advertisements for the theater’s offerings (although not in the individual movie ads themselves).
Anyway, I’m trying to ascertain if this is the theater where my father once took me to see The Beatles' “Magical Mystery Tour.” I was a huge Beatles fan when I was a kid (still am, but not quite as obssessed) and had heard so much about the existence of that made-for-British-TV special that I just had to see it when I saw it listed in the newspapers in early January of 1978. The thing is, the film was on a triple bill with the Rolling Stones in “Sympathy for the Devil” and Grand Funk Railroad in “We’re an American Band.” That became problematic when we arrived to the theater late for the Beatles' film and I wanted to stay around after the other two flicks to catch what I had missed. So, there we sat in the theater’s balcony after “Mystery Tour” had ended.
The “American Band” film was actually a mercifully short documentary about Grand Funk Railroad that – looking back – had the feel of a industrial film. Almost like a corporate film short explaining the nature of a particular company’s business and recapping their accomplishments to date and future goals. I was bored silly – I can only imagine how my father felt.
Next up, the Rolling Stones. Only, the film wasn’t a documentary about the Stones… it wasn’t even a concert film. “Sympathy for the Devil” was the USA distribution version of a highly didactic and political bit of avant-garde filmaking called “One Plus One” by the French new wave director Jean Luc Godard. I could barely stand Godard’s polemics when I studied his films in college – at the age of 12, the film was an absolute nightmare to sit through. Even the clips that did feature the Stones recording the title track seemed disjointed and uninteresting in the context of the whole feature. About 30 minutes in – after much shifting in his chair and loud sighs of frustration – my Dad had finally had enough and annoucned that we were getting the hell out of there. As much as I wanted to catch the beginning of “Magical Mystery Tour”, I must say that I did not put up much of a fight.
I found some old Weekend Movie Clocks on the Times' online archive and it seems that (a) this theater did play “Sympathy for the Devil” at some point in the late ‘70’s (though with a different co-feature) and (b) about the time I remember seeing these films, it appears as though the theater was beginnig a series of rock-and-roll related films (though I can not confirm that this particular triple bill ever played there) the week of January 6th or 7th, 1978. The theater I was in definitely had a balcony and seemed a lot larger than the seat counts discussed above. When this was a single screen, was there a balcony? If not, the search goes on.
The 6th week of Classics programming has been made available on the clearviewcinemas.com site… Looks like a week of Hitchcock: “Dial M for Murder” (flat, I presume), “Rear Window” and “The Birds”.
Hmmm. The article I read about Mekas' plans for the Elgin screenings was from May of ‘69, Al. In the interview that accompanies the piece, Mekas remarks how Warhol was already distributing his own films by that time. Do you know whether the mid-'68 run at the Elgin was programmed by Mekas or Warhol himself? This would roughly coincide with the Filmmakers’ Co-operative having moved out of the New Cinema Playhouse in mid-‘68. I’ve also seen in articles from this period references to Warhol being the only living American filmmaker to have a cinema named after him in the VIllage. Does anyone know which theater this might be? I see no aka’s for a Warhol or Andy Warhol Theater.
That probably says “Embassy 46th St.” not “48th”, RobertR. Otherwise, the ad might have a typo, since the theater is between 46th and 47th.
I am definitely lost, Lost! The c of o’s you’re looking at for 732 Seventh and 1604 B'way must be a building to the north of the old Studebaker and possibly immediately adjacent – since it did not occupy the entire block. Perhaps the Avon – closer to 48th Street – was on the ground floor of the Studebaker while the Frisco was in an adjacent structure. But at least now we are talking about the right block. Where was the Metropole Go Go in all of this… wasn’t it near here? Perhaps the cabaret? Al… do you recall?
Maybe I’ll just submit a “shell” listing for the Frisco with very limited information and we can then move this discussion to that page and try to solve the mystery without cluttering the Paree page.
Didn’t one of those “talkie” remakes involve the Ritz Brothers? The caricatures in that ad feature expressions similar to those in just about every Ritz Brothers publicity still I’ve ever seen! I guess to have them in the remake was a natural. And taken from a stage play, no less.
The original facade was pretty subdued, judging from that newspaper photo. Of course, we don’t have the advantage of a vintage color photograph… but here is an image from 1993 (which I previoulsy posted) with the ornamentation appearing to be largely intact. I’ll try to take some current day photos as soon as I get a chance. From driving by, I know the marquee has been spruced up – if not replaced – since ‘93.
Is it possible that the 1969 C/O for 598 seats be for the Cine Lido? While it had an address of 200 W. 48th, the building where it occupied space might have been known as 1578-1590 Broadway. And 1969 also coincides with the closing of Lou Walter’s Latin Quarter night club – which I believe was at least in part converted for the Cine Lido. AlAlvarez' listing for the Cine Lido lists the seating capacity at 575 which is pretty damn close.
It isn’t the Frisco. The Frisco was definitely “above” the Avon address of 724 Seventh Avenue. The address 710-720 is a block to the south. Ditto the 1578-1590 B'way address – between 47th nd 48th. The Avon and Frisco occupied space in the old Studebaker Building that had a main address of 1600 Broadway (as does the high rise luxury condo that replaced it).
In the thread on the Eros Theater page, RobertR posted a 1969 article that refers to a “New Mini Cinema” with 130 seats on Seventh Ave at 48th Street and AlAlvarez chimes in that the Mini operated in ‘73-'74 at 732 Seventh Ave. That address jibes with the location of the Frisco… could the two theaters have been the same, operating as the New Mini before changing to Frisco around '73-'74? If not, the Mini was just a door or two away from the Frisco.
Brian, I can’t recall your little rhyming games, but then I probably tried to steer clear of the Fresh Meadows when it was at its busiest on a Friday or Saturday night. However, we could have used you back in May when we debated the whole Boulevard vs. Expressway issue! Welcome to CT. I still enjoy attending theater #4 here when something decent is playing. I’ve been going to the Meadows since its earliest days as a Twin in the late ‘70’s. Attended Jr. High at George J. Ryan just a few blocks to the west across Utopia Parkway.
Speedrack… get down to the Ziegfeld Theater in Manhattan sometime over the weekend or next week and go relive those memories. “Jaws” is playing there as part of a “Classics” film festival.
From an ad I have for the Avon, I know that theater’s address was definitely 724 Seventh Ave just north of the corner of 48th and 7th. That would make the Frisco more like 730 or so. That would also mean we have a bit of a mystery theater attached to that C of O at 710-720.
Lost… the Frisco lasted into the early ‘80’s at least. I think 710-720 Seventh would be on the block of the old building between 47th and 48th that housed the Castro Convertible showroom and the Playland amusement arcade. I only assume this because across the street on the east side of the block you had the Mayfair/Demille at 707 Seventh, the CIne 1&2 at 711 and the Doll at 719. I always thought the Frisco and the Avon 7th were both on the 48th to 49th Street block.
I have this tiny photo of the Frisco marquee where you can see the Avon marquee down the block to the south. The marquee might actually read Avon II, which would have been an alternate name to distinguish it from the Avon on 42nd Street between 6th and B'way. Anyway, along the left side of the frame, you can barely make out the corner of the Mayfair/Demille building on 47th and the facade of the RKO Palace further down the street. That places the Frisco and Avon in the Studebaker building that ran between Seventh and B'way on the north side of 48th Street. That one square block bounded by 7th, B'way, 48h and 49th was littered with a number of porn establishments during the ‘70’s and '80’s.
The site where I found that photo (used in connection with a Roger Ebert piece) dates the image to 1973. And does 598 seats strike anyone else as being rather large for a porn theater during the days of 130 seat mini-cinemas?
I’m glad that’s settled. Again.
Wow. Warren joins the Cub Scouts! Welcome to the party! A bit late, but welcome anyhow. Let me see if we have an Official Theater Address Finders badges left….
No, Al… I thought about that, but found that the San Francisco (whose submission to CT I am working on) was located on Broadway adjacent to the old Astor Theater in the space that used to be the Wax Museum for Ripley’s Believe It or Not! The Frisco was on Seventh Avenue between 48th and 49th, on the same block as the Avon 7th Ave.
Good Ole Art Theater… Seems like someone has sipped the elixir from the vial and unleashed Mr. Hyde. The thing is, I don’t think this particular “Dr. Jekyll” is all that mild mannered either!
Anyway, thanks for the two cents, “Art”… Hey wait, I have an idea! Instead of you wasting your time posting on this flea pit’s page and taking a dump all over anyone else’s appreciation for this old theater, how about YOU go on the Kings' page and contribute something positive to a cause in which you claim to actually believe! Go boggle some minds over there, will ya?
Does anyone know much about the history of the Rosemary? When did it open? Was it purpose built? I remember taking note of the large marquee while driving through the area back in the early ‘90’s and vaguely recall a rather large tan facade facing Canal on the north side of the street (I seem to remember it being on a bit of an angle, though that might just be the cut of the street as it turns towards the Manhattan Bridge). I wondered how long it had been around and what sort of movies it played. Is there a cinematic history prior to the 1982 C of O Lost Memory refers to above? My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I would have thought the place was bigger than just 473 seats and might possibly have held a balcony.
That’s always been a debated issue amongst movie entusiasts – subtitles vs. dubbing. Do we want the distraction of having to read the translation and keep the integrity of each actor’s performance whole, or will we suffer through even a hack dub-job so that are eyes need not be distracted from the images on screen? We might all agree that in certain cases (most Godzilla films and kung-fu epics) the hilarious dubbing might actually enhance the experience, but I personally find that subtitles work best in more seriously dramatic films, but it often depends on the film or director. I can’t imagine watching, say, an Ingmar Bergman film like “Wild Strawberries” dubbed over with American actors and missing half of Victor Sjostrom’s wonderful performance; he conveys so much with the tone of his voice in that film that one almost need not read the dialog. On the other hand, Fellini always shot silent and post-synched all of the dialog in his films – often having the actors recite the alphabet on set because the dialog was not yet written! Even then, at least the original Fellini dubs were performed by the same actors who appear on screen. It is rare that a film gets as expert and well directed a dubbing job as, say, “Das Boot.”
LuisV makes an excellent point, Bway, that the Spanish subtitles are primarily what keeps this theater afloat. I’m sure without benefit of those subtitles, the Plaza Theater in Corona wouldn’t even have lasted as long as it did. In the end, even that wasn’t enough. I have no problem with a business attempting to cater to the overwhelming population in its marketplace.
Where and what was the Rialto East?
How long after its premier did that Showcase run begin, Robert? I think this was one of the earliest films I saw in theaters and it was probably at the Lefrak – which would have been closest to my home in Elmhurst at the time. Although, it might have been the Flushing Prospect as well.
And the former Grand is right up the block on the other side of the concrete RR trestle and towards the end of the elevated subway platform on the right (with the large parking lot behind it). The Grand is now a Key Food.
I should add that the Riese Organization continues to operate a number of national chain restaurants to this day.
A word about the seating capacity. I found a C of O dated February of 1971 showing a capacity of 165 seats for a motion picture theater on the 2nd floor. A bit later in ‘72, another C of O was issed that seperated those 165 seats into 102 for the motion picture theater and 63 for an “eating and drinking place.” Not sure how that all fits together.
Articles in the NY Times published at the time of the theater’s closing indicate that patrons would actually be approached in the darkness of the screening room by women offering their services (the 30-minute massage mentioned above).
Apparently, the managers at Rockefeller Center were made aware that they were the primary landlord for this operation when the Mayor’s Office madde public a list of addresses and property owners where such establishments operated. It was with more than just a little embarrassment that the Center had to announce its plans to buy-out the lease and rid their property of the Paree. The lease arrangement, by the way, was via a complicated trail of subsidiaries and sub-lease agreements. Also involved in the chain was the Riese Brothers Organization, which at the time operated a number of chain eateries.
The distinctive neon lettering on the marquee of the Cinema Village is replicated to this day in newspaper advertisements for the theater’s offerings (although not in the individual movie ads themselves).
Anyway, I’m trying to ascertain if this is the theater where my father once took me to see The Beatles' “Magical Mystery Tour.” I was a huge Beatles fan when I was a kid (still am, but not quite as obssessed) and had heard so much about the existence of that made-for-British-TV special that I just had to see it when I saw it listed in the newspapers in early January of 1978. The thing is, the film was on a triple bill with the Rolling Stones in “Sympathy for the Devil” and Grand Funk Railroad in “We’re an American Band.” That became problematic when we arrived to the theater late for the Beatles' film and I wanted to stay around after the other two flicks to catch what I had missed. So, there we sat in the theater’s balcony after “Mystery Tour” had ended.
The “American Band” film was actually a mercifully short documentary about Grand Funk Railroad that – looking back – had the feel of a industrial film. Almost like a corporate film short explaining the nature of a particular company’s business and recapping their accomplishments to date and future goals. I was bored silly – I can only imagine how my father felt.
Next up, the Rolling Stones. Only, the film wasn’t a documentary about the Stones… it wasn’t even a concert film. “Sympathy for the Devil” was the USA distribution version of a highly didactic and political bit of avant-garde filmaking called “One Plus One” by the French new wave director Jean Luc Godard. I could barely stand Godard’s polemics when I studied his films in college – at the age of 12, the film was an absolute nightmare to sit through. Even the clips that did feature the Stones recording the title track seemed disjointed and uninteresting in the context of the whole feature. About 30 minutes in – after much shifting in his chair and loud sighs of frustration – my Dad had finally had enough and annoucned that we were getting the hell out of there. As much as I wanted to catch the beginning of “Magical Mystery Tour”, I must say that I did not put up much of a fight.
I found some old Weekend Movie Clocks on the Times' online archive and it seems that (a) this theater did play “Sympathy for the Devil” at some point in the late ‘70’s (though with a different co-feature) and (b) about the time I remember seeing these films, it appears as though the theater was beginnig a series of rock-and-roll related films (though I can not confirm that this particular triple bill ever played there) the week of January 6th or 7th, 1978. The theater I was in definitely had a balcony and seemed a lot larger than the seat counts discussed above. When this was a single screen, was there a balcony? If not, the search goes on.
The 6th week of Classics programming has been made available on the clearviewcinemas.com site… Looks like a week of Hitchcock: “Dial M for Murder” (flat, I presume), “Rear Window” and “The Birds”.
Thanks, Al… Is the Warhol Garrick on your list of theaters to submit to CT (be it high or low in priority)?
Lost… isn’t searching the TImes' archive thoroughly addicting?!?
Hmmm. The article I read about Mekas' plans for the Elgin screenings was from May of ‘69, Al. In the interview that accompanies the piece, Mekas remarks how Warhol was already distributing his own films by that time. Do you know whether the mid-'68 run at the Elgin was programmed by Mekas or Warhol himself? This would roughly coincide with the Filmmakers’ Co-operative having moved out of the New Cinema Playhouse in mid-‘68. I’ve also seen in articles from this period references to Warhol being the only living American filmmaker to have a cinema named after him in the VIllage. Does anyone know which theater this might be? I see no aka’s for a Warhol or Andy Warhol Theater.