It seems that one of the reasons you want to buy old theaters is to preserve them. That is an admirable goal. However, you say you prefer theaters that are large single screens with 600 or more seats. When you start to look at theaters that fit that description, you will find that most are probably in larger towns and cities. Preserving those theaters is for the most part a community service. In many, if not most cases, those theaters would not make a lot of money because of high costs and lots of competition. By the time you restore the theaters, you will already have so much money in them that you will essentially be donating to charity, whether or not you actually set it up as one. That is all great. I wish you well.
However, if you are interested in spending money for the greater good of society, then why exclude theaters in smaller towns and cities? Why limit it to only larger theaters? You could do some good for society by looking at less populous locations with smaller theaters. There are many more of them for sale, and they will require far less investment to get them going, or to keep them going. You might actually make money on some of them. Any money you make can go toward preserving even more theaters.
Many times small town theaters are not as grand as the old palaces, but the people in those communities would still benefit if their theaters were open. Competition should be much less, and the longterm success more likely.
I have a small town twin for sale that I have already renovated. It is fully equipped and could be ready to go with minimal effort, however it is currently closed. So, there is no operating theater in that community. If you want to help, this would be an easy place to start. See the Gentry Cinema before and after photos at http://www.cinematour.com/tour/us/25.html . You can e-mail me at for more photos or information.
If “no one gives a shit”, then I guess no one will be looking at this website which in large part pays tribute to old theaters. But wait, I see lots of traffic here just based on comments created. So, I guess somebody does care. Hmmm… maybe even you… or you… or you. Besides, I don’t think the term Cinema Treasures was coined to refer to new theaters. Longislandmovies, I hope you are speaking out of frustration. Because that I would understand.
Ok. If you have read all this discussion and are still interested, but can’t see how to come up with $285,000, then maybe there are other options.
Time is growing short, and I am forced to consider options other than selling outright. I do not like the prospect of owner financing, unless there is at least 50% down payment. There is too much potential for headache there to do it for less. If you had the cash, that would be a pretty sweet deal and would cost you less in the long run than the other options I’m about to present.
As for leasing, I have considered a possible lease/purchase option. I’m not sure I want to do it, so you would have to convince me that you are a good candidate. But, if you have good credit, and maybe you have experience, and are fully committed to making it work, I might be convinced.
I am concerned that someone who doesn’t know what they are doing will come in here, then fail and tell the world how this theater won’t work. Then I will be stuck, losing my life savings, and left owing money on something that nobody wants. The truth is that the place has good potential and has performed modestly so far. I have not hidden that fact. For the size of our population, we have only scratched the surface. With time and hard work, I know the Gentry
will be a good source of income for someone who reaps the rewards.
If you were to purchase the business and equipment for $50,000, then I would be willing to lease the facility for $1500 per month with half being applied to future purchase. I would require a minimum of a 2 year lease, and you would be required to pay all utilities and maintain your equipment and the building systems (such as heat and air, plumbing, and electrical— which are all brand new by the way). I will be responsible for major facilities repairs, such as
roof repairs, etc. If you break the lease, then you will need to sell the business and equipment in place to another operator to take your place (with them signing a new lease with me— no subletting) or surrender the equipment to me in good working order as penalty for breaking the lease. This may seem extreme, but it will ensure that you are fully committed. It’s not much different than the way it is traditionally done.
I would also like to point out that there are income streams that I never tapped. I never sold on-screen advertising, or played rolling stock ads for payment. This could add up to $750 to $1000 per month if done right. I have a digital boardroom style projector you could use to show local ads, and there are national companies who would work with you on the rolling stock ads. Many customers seem to expect all the ads when they show up late and wonder why
they are actually late for the show.
Also, if you could book your own films, you would save $240 to $300 per month over what I payed. I have a good booker that I would recommend, but if you can do it yourself, the savings are there.
If you are willing to live a very simple life to get the place up and running, I have an idea to turn the old balcony, which is now a good sized playroom for our kids, into a small studio apartment. All it needs is a small bathroom with a shower, and maybe a hotplate (no cooktop in the concession) and it would work. Everything else is in the theater already… kitchen facilities, tables for dining, office space, etc. It should be possible to add the bathroom for minimal investment. I think I would take $5000 off the price of the equipment if you would pay for this conversion. The business would pay your utilities. You would have no separate rent to pay for living quarters. Of course, this wouldn’t work if you have kids. Not enough space. It would be challenging enough if you are married. I think it could be done if people wanted it though. Years ago, this was called “living above the store”.
If you are interested. E-mail me at Gentry.Cinema @ gmail.com.
Everyone seems to assume that when I say “dinner and a movie” at the Gentry that I mean something like a Cine-Grill. I don’t propose tables or table service in the theater. I just mean that an operator could serve a more extensive menu than traditional concession stands. There are 5 tables with 4 seats each in our dining area that could be used for sit down meals. The room is nicely decorated and not just some tables off to the side somewhere. A few people do take advantage of this option already, eating hot dogs, hot links, nachos, bbq beef on a bun, dipped ice cream, or handmade pizzaritos (pizza burritos). These foods can all be eaten easily without tables in the theaters, or eaten at a table in the dining area. A few folks come early to dine there. With proper promotion and more menu choices, it could be a lot more. This seating area also allows us to book group sales for birthday parties.
I always envisioned more hot foods on our menu but never took the leap to incorporate them into the menu. Hot sandwiches could be an easy addition, such as hot ham and cheese, hamburgers, or whatever. Pizza is a no brainer, if you want. We could probably prepare somewhat more sophisticated plate meals, such as grilled chicken breasts, pork chops, or even steak. We have a flashbake oven that essentially grills food without the grill. We have ovens for creating baked goods such as breads, cookies, and roasted meats. Any low and slow dish that can be made in an oven, we can handle. We have a cook and hold double oven, so holding food at temperature is not a problem. Clean-up would be a little harder but worth the trouble.
The only real problem would be too much success. Our facilities are not huge and many dishes have to be cooked one or only a few servings at time. We have limited prep and storage space as well. With only 5 tables, it should be do-able. I can imagine a day when people might need to make reservations to enjoy the house special dinner offering.
And why does the food have to be overpriced? I created all my prices (except for popcorn, soda, and candy) by trying to target a 30% cost of goods sold on the food, just like restaurants do. I also consider what people would be willing to pay to keep it real. Sometimes that means greater profits, and if it’s less it shouldn’t be on the menu. Some will say that it may hurt popcorn sales. That is a short-sighted argument. Drive-in operators will tell you that the secret to their higher concession per-caps is greater variety. My small popcorn is only $1 but my hot foods sell for $1.50 to $2.50 each. So, I make just as much or more from them as a small popcorn. I only sell one other size of popcorn, a large for $5. Popcorn fans still buy them if that is what they want. It’s better to offer the customers what they like and keep them coming back than to sweep their contraband trash out of the auditorium at night.
I probably average about $2.50 concession per cap. I often do better when I have several customers ordering the hot food items.
JDC, sorry to hear you only have negative things to say about running a theater in any small midwestern town. Yes, I have run into many of the problems and issues you described, but all those things haven’t ruined our business. They do make it more challenging, but if it were easy everyone would do it.
As for the town not supporting us because they support the football team or whatever else first. I would say that I expect many people to go to the games instead of coming to the theater. It does hurt business, but it is to be expected. Why would I expect people to put the theater above all else? There are many things they support. I don’t have to be number one. You have to find ways to work with the hand you are dealt.
You seem to be saying that my ideas for serving food aren’t great, but I wouldn’t expect every customer to purchase dinner or whatever extra items I offer, but if a few could be persuaded, it would certainly help. Besides, people in this town are always complaining there aren’t enough places to eat. Many of the non-chain hometown places are closed in the evenings. That leaves McDonald’s, Subway, Sonic, Pizza Hut, and only a few others. There is room for another restaurant here.
I can say that advances seem to be based on your credit history and how reliably you pay the film distributors on time. I have already ceased to pay advances with several distributors in many instances, even though my grosses are not among the highest, simply because I pay my bills on time.
As for the operating expenses you describe as problems, I would say that most of those are low or very reasonable here. Probably the highest utility bill, including gas and electric, that I have seen so far was probably about $600. That was the first month. Then I added some sweeps to the bottom of the doors and changed how I adjust the thermostats at night and haven’t seen anything more than about $450 since… usually much less. Property taxes here are only about $542 per year. Yes, per year. Everything else seems reasonable. I know that I used to pay higher insurance on a vehicle when I was younger than I have been paying for my business lately.
As for digital and 3D, I would love to have them, but the timing is not right yet for the Gentry. For now, I will focus on those customers who prefer to stay closer to home and save money on tickets, concessions, and gasoline. Those have always been my target market. The multiplex 25 miles away that has digital 3D for several dollars more will have a hard time taking all those cost conscious customers from me. They get some, but not all. I’m still working to build a bigger and bigger customer base anyway. If a few slip away now and then, that is to be expected. It’s no worse than them having more screens than me and having more options available. I still get most of the biggest grossing films… sometimes on the national release, and sometimes 3 or 4 weeks later.
The Gentry is not a failed business. It’s just a start-up that hasn’t taken off yet. If a little better than breaking even for the first year sounds bad to you, then you don’t know much about starting a business.
Yes, I think an experienced operator could make all the difference in the world. Since we are definitely leaving, we are more interested in finding a buyer than in hiring a manager.
Moviez is right, the community is willing to support the theater, but like anyplace else you need to keep the theater in the front of their mind and not the back. His strategies are designed to keep attention focused on the theater, and often in a fun way.
There is potential here for lots of group sales with schools, etc. I have done a few, and with better promotion there could be many more. One area I feel we have been weak in is promotion. I think an experienced operator would be much better at that. I admit, we had no experience when we got into this.
I understand your opinion, danpetitpas, but I do believe there is a way to make this work. The low number of seats may be an issue on occassion, but the size of the facility also keeps the expenses low. Screens are still big enough, and sound is great enough to create a wonderful movie-going experience. If business becomes so busy that there aren’t enough seats, then it would be time to start adding more showtimes. If the bills couldn’t be paid after adding showtimes, then the operator must be doing something wrong because overhead here is very low. Utilities, payroll, taxes, etc. are all very low. The ideal owner would be hands on, so minimal staff would be required.
Nobody should be looking to buy a business if they have to finance 100% of the purchase price. Anyone who can get financing for this kind of business may be asked to put 30-40% down; so, the mortgage should be much lower than 285K.
Also, the potential is there for somebody interested in serving food. The concession area could be operated as a lunch counter to supplement the theater. If somebody were experienced or interested in the restaurant business, then it might be possible to offer dinner and a movie specials too. There is enough equipment to serve a fair variety of items. Just cooked myself a steak at the concession yesterday. It was pretty darn tasty.
Why don’t we do all this? Well, I can say that it was always part of the plan, but was never fully executed. Now our resources are so low, we no longer have the ability to try. And, I have been offered a new job out of state.
I didn’t see that the article said they were the 10 most beautiful. It just says they have pictures of 10 beautiful old theaters.
Good luck.
It seems that one of the reasons you want to buy old theaters is to preserve them. That is an admirable goal. However, you say you prefer theaters that are large single screens with 600 or more seats. When you start to look at theaters that fit that description, you will find that most are probably in larger towns and cities. Preserving those theaters is for the most part a community service. In many, if not most cases, those theaters would not make a lot of money because of high costs and lots of competition. By the time you restore the theaters, you will already have so much money in them that you will essentially be donating to charity, whether or not you actually set it up as one. That is all great. I wish you well.
However, if you are interested in spending money for the greater good of society, then why exclude theaters in smaller towns and cities? Why limit it to only larger theaters? You could do some good for society by looking at less populous locations with smaller theaters. There are many more of them for sale, and they will require far less investment to get them going, or to keep them going. You might actually make money on some of them. Any money you make can go toward preserving even more theaters.
Many times small town theaters are not as grand as the old palaces, but the people in those communities would still benefit if their theaters were open. Competition should be much less, and the longterm success more likely.
I have a small town twin for sale that I have already renovated. It is fully equipped and could be ready to go with minimal effort, however it is currently closed. So, there is no operating theater in that community. If you want to help, this would be an easy place to start. See the Gentry Cinema before and after photos at http://www.cinematour.com/tour/us/25.html . You can e-mail me at for more photos or information.
Shouldn’t this story be tagged as coming from Roanoke, Alabama, not Virginia? Roanoke, VA already has a Carmike.
Thanks, Dramatrauma. We’re still looking for the “right kind of new owner”.
If “no one gives a shit”, then I guess no one will be looking at this website which in large part pays tribute to old theaters. But wait, I see lots of traffic here just based on comments created. So, I guess somebody does care. Hmmm… maybe even you… or you… or you. Besides, I don’t think the term Cinema Treasures was coined to refer to new theaters. Longislandmovies, I hope you are speaking out of frustration. Because that I would understand.
Ok. If you have read all this discussion and are still interested, but can’t see how to come up with $285,000, then maybe there are other options.
Time is growing short, and I am forced to consider options other than selling outright. I do not like the prospect of owner financing, unless there is at least 50% down payment. There is too much potential for headache there to do it for less. If you had the cash, that would be a pretty sweet deal and would cost you less in the long run than the other options I’m about to present.
As for leasing, I have considered a possible lease/purchase option. I’m not sure I want to do it, so you would have to convince me that you are a good candidate. But, if you have good credit, and maybe you have experience, and are fully committed to making it work, I might be convinced.
I am concerned that someone who doesn’t know what they are doing will come in here, then fail and tell the world how this theater won’t work. Then I will be stuck, losing my life savings, and left owing money on something that nobody wants. The truth is that the place has good potential and has performed modestly so far. I have not hidden that fact. For the size of our population, we have only scratched the surface. With time and hard work, I know the Gentry
will be a good source of income for someone who reaps the rewards.
If you were to purchase the business and equipment for $50,000, then I would be willing to lease the facility for $1500 per month with half being applied to future purchase. I would require a minimum of a 2 year lease, and you would be required to pay all utilities and maintain your equipment and the building systems (such as heat and air, plumbing, and electrical— which are all brand new by the way). I will be responsible for major facilities repairs, such as
roof repairs, etc. If you break the lease, then you will need to sell the business and equipment in place to another operator to take your place (with them signing a new lease with me— no subletting) or surrender the equipment to me in good working order as penalty for breaking the lease. This may seem extreme, but it will ensure that you are fully committed. It’s not much different than the way it is traditionally done.
I would also like to point out that there are income streams that I never tapped. I never sold on-screen advertising, or played rolling stock ads for payment. This could add up to $750 to $1000 per month if done right. I have a digital boardroom style projector you could use to show local ads, and there are national companies who would work with you on the rolling stock ads. Many customers seem to expect all the ads when they show up late and wonder why
they are actually late for the show.
Also, if you could book your own films, you would save $240 to $300 per month over what I payed. I have a good booker that I would recommend, but if you can do it yourself, the savings are there.
If you are willing to live a very simple life to get the place up and running, I have an idea to turn the old balcony, which is now a good sized playroom for our kids, into a small studio apartment. All it needs is a small bathroom with a shower, and maybe a hotplate (no cooktop in the concession) and it would work. Everything else is in the theater already… kitchen facilities, tables for dining, office space, etc. It should be possible to add the bathroom for minimal investment. I think I would take $5000 off the price of the equipment if you would pay for this conversion. The business would pay your utilities. You would have no separate rent to pay for living quarters. Of course, this wouldn’t work if you have kids. Not enough space. It would be challenging enough if you are married. I think it could be done if people wanted it though. Years ago, this was called “living above the store”.
If you are interested. E-mail me at Gentry.Cinema @ gmail.com.
There is more information and pictures/video of the theater if you visit the following links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhAjrYFVEFo
View link
View link
Here is another “video”/slideshow about the Gentry being for sale. Lots of pictures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhAjrYFVEFo
Everyone seems to assume that when I say “dinner and a movie” at the Gentry that I mean something like a Cine-Grill. I don’t propose tables or table service in the theater. I just mean that an operator could serve a more extensive menu than traditional concession stands. There are 5 tables with 4 seats each in our dining area that could be used for sit down meals. The room is nicely decorated and not just some tables off to the side somewhere. A few people do take advantage of this option already, eating hot dogs, hot links, nachos, bbq beef on a bun, dipped ice cream, or handmade pizzaritos (pizza burritos). These foods can all be eaten easily without tables in the theaters, or eaten at a table in the dining area. A few folks come early to dine there. With proper promotion and more menu choices, it could be a lot more. This seating area also allows us to book group sales for birthday parties.
I always envisioned more hot foods on our menu but never took the leap to incorporate them into the menu. Hot sandwiches could be an easy addition, such as hot ham and cheese, hamburgers, or whatever. Pizza is a no brainer, if you want. We could probably prepare somewhat more sophisticated plate meals, such as grilled chicken breasts, pork chops, or even steak. We have a flashbake oven that essentially grills food without the grill. We have ovens for creating baked goods such as breads, cookies, and roasted meats. Any low and slow dish that can be made in an oven, we can handle. We have a cook and hold double oven, so holding food at temperature is not a problem. Clean-up would be a little harder but worth the trouble.
The only real problem would be too much success. Our facilities are not huge and many dishes have to be cooked one or only a few servings at time. We have limited prep and storage space as well. With only 5 tables, it should be do-able. I can imagine a day when people might need to make reservations to enjoy the house special dinner offering.
And why does the food have to be overpriced? I created all my prices (except for popcorn, soda, and candy) by trying to target a 30% cost of goods sold on the food, just like restaurants do. I also consider what people would be willing to pay to keep it real. Sometimes that means greater profits, and if it’s less it shouldn’t be on the menu. Some will say that it may hurt popcorn sales. That is a short-sighted argument. Drive-in operators will tell you that the secret to their higher concession per-caps is greater variety. My small popcorn is only $1 but my hot foods sell for $1.50 to $2.50 each. So, I make just as much or more from them as a small popcorn. I only sell one other size of popcorn, a large for $5. Popcorn fans still buy them if that is what they want. It’s better to offer the customers what they like and keep them coming back than to sweep their contraband trash out of the auditorium at night.
I probably average about $2.50 concession per cap. I often do better when I have several customers ordering the hot food items.
JDC, sorry to hear you only have negative things to say about running a theater in any small midwestern town. Yes, I have run into many of the problems and issues you described, but all those things haven’t ruined our business. They do make it more challenging, but if it were easy everyone would do it.
As for the town not supporting us because they support the football team or whatever else first. I would say that I expect many people to go to the games instead of coming to the theater. It does hurt business, but it is to be expected. Why would I expect people to put the theater above all else? There are many things they support. I don’t have to be number one. You have to find ways to work with the hand you are dealt.
You seem to be saying that my ideas for serving food aren’t great, but I wouldn’t expect every customer to purchase dinner or whatever extra items I offer, but if a few could be persuaded, it would certainly help. Besides, people in this town are always complaining there aren’t enough places to eat. Many of the non-chain hometown places are closed in the evenings. That leaves McDonald’s, Subway, Sonic, Pizza Hut, and only a few others. There is room for another restaurant here.
I can say that advances seem to be based on your credit history and how reliably you pay the film distributors on time. I have already ceased to pay advances with several distributors in many instances, even though my grosses are not among the highest, simply because I pay my bills on time.
As for the operating expenses you describe as problems, I would say that most of those are low or very reasonable here. Probably the highest utility bill, including gas and electric, that I have seen so far was probably about $600. That was the first month. Then I added some sweeps to the bottom of the doors and changed how I adjust the thermostats at night and haven’t seen anything more than about $450 since… usually much less. Property taxes here are only about $542 per year. Yes, per year. Everything else seems reasonable. I know that I used to pay higher insurance on a vehicle when I was younger than I have been paying for my business lately.
As for digital and 3D, I would love to have them, but the timing is not right yet for the Gentry. For now, I will focus on those customers who prefer to stay closer to home and save money on tickets, concessions, and gasoline. Those have always been my target market. The multiplex 25 miles away that has digital 3D for several dollars more will have a hard time taking all those cost conscious customers from me. They get some, but not all. I’m still working to build a bigger and bigger customer base anyway. If a few slip away now and then, that is to be expected. It’s no worse than them having more screens than me and having more options available. I still get most of the biggest grossing films… sometimes on the national release, and sometimes 3 or 4 weeks later.
The Gentry is not a failed business. It’s just a start-up that hasn’t taken off yet. If a little better than breaking even for the first year sounds bad to you, then you don’t know much about starting a business.
Yes, I think an experienced operator could make all the difference in the world. Since we are definitely leaving, we are more interested in finding a buyer than in hiring a manager.
Moviez is right, the community is willing to support the theater, but like anyplace else you need to keep the theater in the front of their mind and not the back. His strategies are designed to keep attention focused on the theater, and often in a fun way.
There is potential here for lots of group sales with schools, etc. I have done a few, and with better promotion there could be many more. One area I feel we have been weak in is promotion. I think an experienced operator would be much better at that. I admit, we had no experience when we got into this.
I don’t know how to post pictures here, but here is a link to my realtor’s listing. There are some pictures there. The one of the screen is distorted.
View link
I understand your opinion, danpetitpas, but I do believe there is a way to make this work. The low number of seats may be an issue on occassion, but the size of the facility also keeps the expenses low. Screens are still big enough, and sound is great enough to create a wonderful movie-going experience. If business becomes so busy that there aren’t enough seats, then it would be time to start adding more showtimes. If the bills couldn’t be paid after adding showtimes, then the operator must be doing something wrong because overhead here is very low. Utilities, payroll, taxes, etc. are all very low. The ideal owner would be hands on, so minimal staff would be required.
Nobody should be looking to buy a business if they have to finance 100% of the purchase price. Anyone who can get financing for this kind of business may be asked to put 30-40% down; so, the mortgage should be much lower than 285K.
Also, the potential is there for somebody interested in serving food. The concession area could be operated as a lunch counter to supplement the theater. If somebody were experienced or interested in the restaurant business, then it might be possible to offer dinner and a movie specials too. There is enough equipment to serve a fair variety of items. Just cooked myself a steak at the concession yesterday. It was pretty darn tasty.
Why don’t we do all this? Well, I can say that it was always part of the plan, but was never fully executed. Now our resources are so low, we no longer have the ability to try. And, I have been offered a new job out of state.
No XXX movies shown at the Gentry. Focus is on family friendly films. The community would not support anyhing that racey.
The location is the Gentry Cinema in Checotah, OK. This is the only movie theater in the county. Large lake with lots of vacationers very nearby.
The Gentry is listed here on Cinema Treasures.
/theaters/12742/