alpinedownhiller – the glasses to me appear to be the same technology as the previous Dolby 3D glasses (and even included a Dolby 3D branding on the inside of the glasses, along with the IMAX branding), but if there had been “under the hood” innovations made, I’d have no way of knowing.
I don’t think my eyes are wide set or anything like that. I’ve seen three 3D presentations there, and I promise you, I didn’t get any ghosting or image doubling during any of them – that wasn’t my issue. (I’m a huge 3D fan and I’ve got a 3D projector at home, and I’ve seen films presented theatrically in all of the different 3D formats. I’m not saying this to brag or anything, but just to point out that if there was ghosting being caused by my glasses, I would have noticed.) It was just the stupid reflections. I know I keep repeating this, but I’ve spoken to the IMAX CQO about this, and he has confirmed that a certain percentage of their audience has reported that problem with their glasses at their laser installs – I got the sense that this was not limited to the Lincoln Square theater but something they were aware of. He specifically stated that other patrons had reported this too. He said that they were working on developing better glasses, but there wasn’t an ETA for when they might be complete. I’m not offended by your suggestions to try to figure out why this is, but I feel that it’s important for me to point out that the IMAX company has confirmed that this is a known issue – it’s not a random fluke thing that has happened only to me. It may be due to the fact that I wear prescription glasses, and keep the on under my 3D glasses. However, I wear my glasses 100% of the time when I watch movies (I really can’t see without them but have perfect vision with) and I’ve never experienced this problem with any other theater or any other 3D projection technology. No issues like this with dual-strip 35mm/70mm projected with linear polarized lenses. No issues like this with digital 3D projected with circular polarized lenses. No issues like this at theaters and theme park attractions using standard Dolby 3D equipment. No issues like this at home using active 3D glasses. No issues like this at the 4K/3D/120 fps RealD laser showing of Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk. This issue has only happened to me at this one specific theater using the glasses they provide.
I really wonder if the amount of light leakage in the room is negatively contributing to this. You’ve got blue light spilling onto the screen from the left and right sides, and a row of lights turned on low above the screen throughout the entire movie. The projector isn’t the only thing throwing light at the screen and the glasses seem very sensitive to that.
alpinedownhiller – re your last comment about the glasses. I don’t know about the differences between type 1 or type 2 glasses, as I mentioned earlier, the glasses weren’t branded that way when I used them. My issue wasn’t to do with the lens coating or ghosting – I didn’t experience any of that.
My problem has to do with reflections from the glasses, which the IMAX CQO has confirmed is an issue that some patrons experience. I don’t experience any ghosting or doubling of the image. But every bit of stray light in the theater is picked up by the glasses and reflected off of them, particularly the blue light spilling in from the hallways and the emergency lighting overhead. Additionally, I can see a reflection of my own face on the inside of the lenses – essentially, I have to look past my face to see to the screen.
Those issues are specific to these new glasses, which use the Dolby 3D system which is similar to an anaglyph system. The polarized system that IMAX used to use on both their 15/70 and digital locations didn’t cause any issues with reflections with me, therefore delivering a more pleasing 3D experience.
I hope this helps clarify what I’ve been trying to say.
alpinedownhiller – re: your question “hmm that’s weird, you mean as sort of a general reflected blur or sharp details”
It’s hard to describe – it’s more of a reflected blur, it’s one of those things where if the movie has a very bright scene, like a daytime exterior, it’s not really noticeable, but in any darkly lit scenes, I can start seeing a little bit of my eye and the area around it reflecting back, as if there was a halfway transparent mirror between me in the screen. It’s a hard effect to describe, but I gather that IMAX is aware of it because the CQO instantly understood what I was talking about when I brought it up.
The glasses were the special versions of the Dolby 3D-type glasses with IMAX branding on them, that have larger lenses than the standard Dolby 3D glasses. There wasn’t a designation on them of “type 1” or “type 2” so I’m afraid I can’t offer more detail on that.
I think this problem is due to IMAX choosing to use the Dolby 3D system with their laser install, rather than continuing to use the polarized system that the previous IMAX projectors (both 15/70 film and xenon-lit DLP) had attached. These Dolby lenses are far more reflective than the polarized lenses ever were, and I think the more inherently reflective nature of these lenses, combined with all of the stray light spilling into the auditorium, can make for some problematic presentations.
Because this theater now charges $26.29 for a ticket, I’m having to consider whether its worth having a compromised experience for such a high price. Yes, it is the biggest screen in the area, but if the image doesn’t look good, is it worth that price?
alpinedownhiller – about seeing my own reflection in the lens, let me explain. I’ve sat dead center in my visits to the location, in rows F and G. When I sit there, with the 3D glasses on as the movie is playing, I can see the reflection of my own eyeballs in the glasses – I see everything that’s on the screen and the 3D effect, but the reflection of my eyeball is clearly visible on the lens. When I spoke with the IMAX CQO about this, he said that other people had reported the same thing. It may not affect everyone, and some people may be more sensitive to it than others, but it’s definitely a problem that’s been reported and acknowledged. The lens coating is a highly reflective surface, and instead of just filtering the correct “eye view” for each eye, they also reflect whatever other light is around.
alpinedownhiller – there are two problems with reflections in the new laser IMAX installation, from my experience.
The first problem is that the entrances to the left and right of the screen have blue lights installed on the floor and walls – this blue light remains on, unchanged, throughout the entire presentation. Though the light is technically in the hallway and not the auditorium, the light spills into the auditorium and the lower third of both sides of the screen ends up having blue light shining on it throughout the movie.
The second problem is with the glasses themselves. The coating on the lens is highly reflective, and the glasses pick up everything, from the blue light spilling in, to light from the screen reflecting back into your eyes. Many patrons, myself included, have reported being able to see the reflections of their own faces and eyeballs in the glasses. This did not ever happen with the previous 15/70 film system or DLP xenon digital projection.
The solution to the first problem is simple; dim or turn off the blue light in the hallways during the feature. I spoke with the IMAX CQO who unfortunately does not seem to have the authority to make this change; he acknowledged that it was an issue that bothered him but seemed resigned to that being the way it was. As for the glasses, IMAX seems aware of the issue and says they are working on a solution, but no timetable was offered.
Regarding the showings of films in 2D or 3D, a lot of that is up to the studio. I was told that the Lego Batman Movie is being offered exclusively in IMAX 2D at the request of the studio. Internationally, it is playing in IMAX 3D as 3D seems to be more popular overseas.
I also had a lot of difficulty with the new 3D glasses. They weren’t physically uncomfortable to wear, but they were highly reflective – so reflective that I saw everything. Besides the 3D image on the screen, every bit of stray light in the theater (like the blue light that spills in from the entranceways to the side of the screen) reflected off the lenses. My own eyes and face reflected within the glasses.
When they showed trailers in 2D, the image was fine, but the 3D glasses ended up reflecting every single bit of stray light in the theater and ended up reflecting the sides of my face into the lenses too.
I wrote to the IMAX CQO using the email address provided at the end of the feature (they put this onscreen at the end of every IMAX showing), and they conceded that they were aware of the issue with the glasses and hoped to make improvements in the future, but didn’t have an immediate fix either.
I’ve simply never experienced a glasses issue like this with any other 3D showing using any other 3D technology at any other venue. Not at home on my active TV and projector, not at RealD theaters with circular polarization, not at digital and film venues with linear polarization, and not even at Dolby Digital 3D venues which use similar lens technology but smaller lenses.
I think what happened was that IMAX wanted to have larger lenses that the standard Dolby 3D glasses so they enlarged the eye holes (on standard Dolby 3D glasses, the viewable area is much smaller), but the lens material is so reflective that with the increased size, they’re just reflecting everything. It’s probably something that wasn’t as apparent in a test environment but is unavoidable in the real world.
I saw the 10:30pm showing of Rogue One on December 15th, and again, I can confirm that Dunkirk was shown in 70mm IMAX. I corresponded with IMAX CQO David Keighley after the show and he further confirmed that Dunkirk was shown in 70mm, and he was personally in attendance to supervise the first screening of it.
There was no significant delay due to the switch of projectors. The running order was such: first they played the usual AMC/IMAX trailer welcoming people into the theater. Then, it appeared that the house lights and IMAX wall lights were manually switched off (they turned off suddenly, as opposed to a slow dim), and the 70mm projector was turned on immediately. Following Dunkirk, the IMAX wall lights and house lights came back on (again, this appeared to be done manually as they simply flipped on rather than fading in), and then trailers were shown on the laser projector.
During the switch as Dunkirk began, I looked up and could see that the dual laser projectors were stationed in the center of the booth, towards the top of the glass window. The 70mm projector was stationed below the laser projectors, between the two. When on, the projection beam from the 70mm projector came from underneath and between the positioning of the laser system. So it would have appeared that it was installed below and between the two laser projectors and not on a rail. The changeover between projection systems was practically instant – it did not appear that anything was physically moved during the presentation.
The email address for the IMAX CQO is displayed following all IMAX presentations – you can write to them directly if there is still any doubt regarding whether or not Dunkirk was shown on film.
They are showing the Dunkirk footage on 15/70 film. At my screening, they showed the usual preshow commercials, then turned the laser projectors off and switched to film for Dunkirk, and then turned the laser projectors back on for the rest of the trailers and Rogue One.
alpinedownhiller – the glasses to me appear to be the same technology as the previous Dolby 3D glasses (and even included a Dolby 3D branding on the inside of the glasses, along with the IMAX branding), but if there had been “under the hood” innovations made, I’d have no way of knowing.
I don’t think my eyes are wide set or anything like that. I’ve seen three 3D presentations there, and I promise you, I didn’t get any ghosting or image doubling during any of them – that wasn’t my issue. (I’m a huge 3D fan and I’ve got a 3D projector at home, and I’ve seen films presented theatrically in all of the different 3D formats. I’m not saying this to brag or anything, but just to point out that if there was ghosting being caused by my glasses, I would have noticed.) It was just the stupid reflections. I know I keep repeating this, but I’ve spoken to the IMAX CQO about this, and he has confirmed that a certain percentage of their audience has reported that problem with their glasses at their laser installs – I got the sense that this was not limited to the Lincoln Square theater but something they were aware of. He specifically stated that other patrons had reported this too. He said that they were working on developing better glasses, but there wasn’t an ETA for when they might be complete. I’m not offended by your suggestions to try to figure out why this is, but I feel that it’s important for me to point out that the IMAX company has confirmed that this is a known issue – it’s not a random fluke thing that has happened only to me. It may be due to the fact that I wear prescription glasses, and keep the on under my 3D glasses. However, I wear my glasses 100% of the time when I watch movies (I really can’t see without them but have perfect vision with) and I’ve never experienced this problem with any other theater or any other 3D projection technology. No issues like this with dual-strip 35mm/70mm projected with linear polarized lenses. No issues like this with digital 3D projected with circular polarized lenses. No issues like this at theaters and theme park attractions using standard Dolby 3D equipment. No issues like this at home using active 3D glasses. No issues like this at the 4K/3D/120 fps RealD laser showing of Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk. This issue has only happened to me at this one specific theater using the glasses they provide.
I really wonder if the amount of light leakage in the room is negatively contributing to this. You’ve got blue light spilling onto the screen from the left and right sides, and a row of lights turned on low above the screen throughout the entire movie. The projector isn’t the only thing throwing light at the screen and the glasses seem very sensitive to that.
alpinedownhiller – re your last comment about the glasses. I don’t know about the differences between type 1 or type 2 glasses, as I mentioned earlier, the glasses weren’t branded that way when I used them. My issue wasn’t to do with the lens coating or ghosting – I didn’t experience any of that.
My problem has to do with reflections from the glasses, which the IMAX CQO has confirmed is an issue that some patrons experience. I don’t experience any ghosting or doubling of the image. But every bit of stray light in the theater is picked up by the glasses and reflected off of them, particularly the blue light spilling in from the hallways and the emergency lighting overhead. Additionally, I can see a reflection of my own face on the inside of the lenses – essentially, I have to look past my face to see to the screen.
Those issues are specific to these new glasses, which use the Dolby 3D system which is similar to an anaglyph system. The polarized system that IMAX used to use on both their 15/70 and digital locations didn’t cause any issues with reflections with me, therefore delivering a more pleasing 3D experience.
I hope this helps clarify what I’ve been trying to say.
alpinedownhiller – re: your question “hmm that’s weird, you mean as sort of a general reflected blur or sharp details”
It’s hard to describe – it’s more of a reflected blur, it’s one of those things where if the movie has a very bright scene, like a daytime exterior, it’s not really noticeable, but in any darkly lit scenes, I can start seeing a little bit of my eye and the area around it reflecting back, as if there was a halfway transparent mirror between me in the screen. It’s a hard effect to describe, but I gather that IMAX is aware of it because the CQO instantly understood what I was talking about when I brought it up.
The glasses were the special versions of the Dolby 3D-type glasses with IMAX branding on them, that have larger lenses than the standard Dolby 3D glasses. There wasn’t a designation on them of “type 1” or “type 2” so I’m afraid I can’t offer more detail on that.
I think this problem is due to IMAX choosing to use the Dolby 3D system with their laser install, rather than continuing to use the polarized system that the previous IMAX projectors (both 15/70 film and xenon-lit DLP) had attached. These Dolby lenses are far more reflective than the polarized lenses ever were, and I think the more inherently reflective nature of these lenses, combined with all of the stray light spilling into the auditorium, can make for some problematic presentations.
Because this theater now charges $26.29 for a ticket, I’m having to consider whether its worth having a compromised experience for such a high price. Yes, it is the biggest screen in the area, but if the image doesn’t look good, is it worth that price?
alpinedownhiller – about seeing my own reflection in the lens, let me explain. I’ve sat dead center in my visits to the location, in rows F and G. When I sit there, with the 3D glasses on as the movie is playing, I can see the reflection of my own eyeballs in the glasses – I see everything that’s on the screen and the 3D effect, but the reflection of my eyeball is clearly visible on the lens. When I spoke with the IMAX CQO about this, he said that other people had reported the same thing. It may not affect everyone, and some people may be more sensitive to it than others, but it’s definitely a problem that’s been reported and acknowledged. The lens coating is a highly reflective surface, and instead of just filtering the correct “eye view” for each eye, they also reflect whatever other light is around.
alpinedownhiller – there are two problems with reflections in the new laser IMAX installation, from my experience.
The first problem is that the entrances to the left and right of the screen have blue lights installed on the floor and walls – this blue light remains on, unchanged, throughout the entire presentation. Though the light is technically in the hallway and not the auditorium, the light spills into the auditorium and the lower third of both sides of the screen ends up having blue light shining on it throughout the movie.
The second problem is with the glasses themselves. The coating on the lens is highly reflective, and the glasses pick up everything, from the blue light spilling in, to light from the screen reflecting back into your eyes. Many patrons, myself included, have reported being able to see the reflections of their own faces and eyeballs in the glasses. This did not ever happen with the previous 15/70 film system or DLP xenon digital projection.
The solution to the first problem is simple; dim or turn off the blue light in the hallways during the feature. I spoke with the IMAX CQO who unfortunately does not seem to have the authority to make this change; he acknowledged that it was an issue that bothered him but seemed resigned to that being the way it was. As for the glasses, IMAX seems aware of the issue and says they are working on a solution, but no timetable was offered.
Regarding the showings of films in 2D or 3D, a lot of that is up to the studio. I was told that the Lego Batman Movie is being offered exclusively in IMAX 2D at the request of the studio. Internationally, it is playing in IMAX 3D as 3D seems to be more popular overseas.
I also had a lot of difficulty with the new 3D glasses. They weren’t physically uncomfortable to wear, but they were highly reflective – so reflective that I saw everything. Besides the 3D image on the screen, every bit of stray light in the theater (like the blue light that spills in from the entranceways to the side of the screen) reflected off the lenses. My own eyes and face reflected within the glasses.
When they showed trailers in 2D, the image was fine, but the 3D glasses ended up reflecting every single bit of stray light in the theater and ended up reflecting the sides of my face into the lenses too.
I wrote to the IMAX CQO using the email address provided at the end of the feature (they put this onscreen at the end of every IMAX showing), and they conceded that they were aware of the issue with the glasses and hoped to make improvements in the future, but didn’t have an immediate fix either.
I’ve simply never experienced a glasses issue like this with any other 3D showing using any other 3D technology at any other venue. Not at home on my active TV and projector, not at RealD theaters with circular polarization, not at digital and film venues with linear polarization, and not even at Dolby Digital 3D venues which use similar lens technology but smaller lenses.
I think what happened was that IMAX wanted to have larger lenses that the standard Dolby 3D glasses so they enlarged the eye holes (on standard Dolby 3D glasses, the viewable area is much smaller), but the lens material is so reflective that with the increased size, they’re just reflecting everything. It’s probably something that wasn’t as apparent in a test environment but is unavoidable in the real world.
Still, for $26 a ticket, I expected more.
I saw the 10:30pm showing of Rogue One on December 15th, and again, I can confirm that Dunkirk was shown in 70mm IMAX. I corresponded with IMAX CQO David Keighley after the show and he further confirmed that Dunkirk was shown in 70mm, and he was personally in attendance to supervise the first screening of it.
There was no significant delay due to the switch of projectors. The running order was such: first they played the usual AMC/IMAX trailer welcoming people into the theater. Then, it appeared that the house lights and IMAX wall lights were manually switched off (they turned off suddenly, as opposed to a slow dim), and the 70mm projector was turned on immediately. Following Dunkirk, the IMAX wall lights and house lights came back on (again, this appeared to be done manually as they simply flipped on rather than fading in), and then trailers were shown on the laser projector.
During the switch as Dunkirk began, I looked up and could see that the dual laser projectors were stationed in the center of the booth, towards the top of the glass window. The 70mm projector was stationed below the laser projectors, between the two. When on, the projection beam from the 70mm projector came from underneath and between the positioning of the laser system. So it would have appeared that it was installed below and between the two laser projectors and not on a rail. The changeover between projection systems was practically instant – it did not appear that anything was physically moved during the presentation.
The email address for the IMAX CQO is displayed following all IMAX presentations – you can write to them directly if there is still any doubt regarding whether or not Dunkirk was shown on film.
They are showing the Dunkirk footage on 15/70 film. At my screening, they showed the usual preshow commercials, then turned the laser projectors off and switched to film for Dunkirk, and then turned the laser projectors back on for the rest of the trailers and Rogue One.