Not only ads but TV commercials!!! If I was inclined to watch TV, why would I be sitting in a theater? I don’t want to see TV programs advertized while I’m at the movie. This doesn’t make sense to me. The sound is nice in the theater, but with the new home sound systems, why pay so much to sit there and watch ads. As one other said; previews fine, but not ads and definitely not TV program ads. Wake up theater owners!!
Thanks Marty B. And to make another point if the studios have their way in the future everyone will be paying even higher prices at both the boxoffice and conncession stand because of DLP Projectors(for those who dont know what dlp is its digital laser projection). As a result prints will be phased out like bata tapes and players. And for the small operators this means very expensive dlp projectors to be installed and wireless dishes on the roof inorder to download movies instead of recieving prints by shipping companies. Dlp projectors will cost twice as much as conventional projectors.
Every theatre that I attend posts the time that the trailers start, not the time that the ads start. Maybe this isn’t true everywhere. I hate the ads also, but poster Barry Lee has it right: in the opening weeks of a film, the theatre gets only 10-20% of the take. Movie theaters are concession stands that show movies, not movies that happen to have concession stands. That’s why the junk food they sell costs so much.
If we fight to eliminate the ads, we’ll probably win, but four things will happen as a result:
1. Many more theaters will close, especially those in large cities and expensive suburbs where land values are high.
2. Ticket prices will rise.
3. Theaters will be even more reluctant to invest in better facilities, projection, sound, etc.
4. Incompetent popcorn kids will be running the projectors instead of trained projectionists (this is happening already.)
So my vote is to live with the ads. In the theaters I attend, the house lights are up during the ads and you can talk to your friends during the ads. This really isn’t a big deal. The fact that a lawsuit was actually brought against this goes to prove that Americans are the most stupidly litigious people on the fact of the planet. Get a life.
Those were great days for the Somerville Theatre, Ian – working for Garen, the double features, the midnight specials on Friday and Saturday nights, the programming in general, and the anticipation that surrounded the experience of that first look at each new film calendar as it arrived at the theatre, checking to see what the next two months would bring… fun times and I’m glad the Somerville Theatre is still going strong. I’ll definitely pop in and say ‘hi’ the next time I’m back in Boston.
Thanks Manwithnoname! And having attended movies in larger markets, I totally understand your frustration with loud latecomers. Theaters should have ‘cell phone check rooms’ like they used to have coat check rooms.
JManz, that’s true but I didn’t hear you mention commercials as part of the grand days schedule. Everything you mentioned is part of the show. Commercials are not. You are right, we hate advertising but are bombarded with it every minute of every day. Can you imagine going to work everyday and having Spongebob staring at you from the back of the bus you are riding behind?? AArrgghh.
IAN: I understand your point about the contract and respect that. Not admitting latecomers, in my opinion, depends on the venue. In an independent environment it would make enemies but in Metro Los Angeles I assure you we are all sick and tired of latecomers chattering, blocking the view, shutting off cell phones (when the DO shut them off), finishing conversations, locating their friends and generally causing distractions when the feature is well under way even 25 minutes after the scheduled start. I am happy to spend a little more to minimize that.
When everyone and their mother knows that lots of ads precede the feature attraction at a movie theatre, it becomes a hard sell to say someone is “deceived” when the movie starts 15 minutes after the advertised showtime.
In fact, the industry has operated in this manner since the grand days of the palacial theatre. The theatre advertised the showtime, but everyone knew that showtime included a few newsreels, maybe a cartoon, sometimes a sing-a-long, a contest, the “B” feature, the coming attractions that trailed the “B” feature (trailers), maybe a serial like “Buck Rogers”, and then…the feature. What if people were interminable grousers back then like they are today?
The fact is Americans generally hate advertising, whether its “free” on TV or a part of a feature showtime at the movies.
Manwithnoname: I cannot comment on the specific terms of our contract (I don’t want this friendly discussion to turn into a messy contract thing), but as for denying people entry once the feature begins, that would create more enemies than friends.
br91975: I didn’t realize you used to go to the Somerville so much (and I am assuming you worked for Garen Daly back then? What great programming the place had back in the day! Double features, festivals, great stuff) next time you are in the area stop in and say hi! I went there for movies as a kid whenever I could, and have a lot of fun running the place now.
While I think br91975 makes some excellent points I do not believe that showing the ads before the posted showtime is a solution. The company placing the ads is not paying for people NOT to see them but the idea is to expose the ad to as many people as possible. Maybe Ian can tell us if the contract to show the ads includes a provision that they be shown as part of the show.
FOR IAN: The policy at Arclight is not to seat latecomers once the feature begins. Of course, that is not always enforced.
Below is the comment I posted last night on this week’s quiz page…
I’m not a fan of commercials being shown before movies (trailers, yes- even though most tend to give away the majority of a film’s plot in only a few minutes' time; commercials themselves, no) but, reading Ian M. Judge’s comments, I recognize them as being a necessary evil; again, I’m not fond of them, but I understand why theatres – chains and indies – resort to showing them.
Pacific Theatres, the operator of the ArcLight and Cinerama Dome complex, does a fantastic thing in not showing commercials; the trade-off, of course, being an increase in ticket price. While most of us claim that to be a fair bargain, the fact is, a sizeable percentage would complain about the increase in the cost of admission, despite filmgoing being the best entertainment bargain around.
The fair compromise to me (again, going back to the policy of the theatre where Ian is employed, which I believe to be the Somerville Theatre, my boyhood moviegoing haunt and the place where I had my first job at the age of 10, distributing film program calendars in the Somerville and Cambridge area during the mid-‘80s) is to show commercials before the announced showtime; theatre owners still gain their revenue and those of us who prefer to avoid ads win as well.
posted by br91975 on Mar 08, 05 | 10:35 pm
Again, as long as the ad said something to the effect of “showtimes include full program of ads, previews and other content” that would be fair.
It is impossible to advertise the exact showtime the actual feature begins – what if one set of three previews is 6 mins long and a different set is 7 mins? And then what if the projectionist goofs up and starts the movie 5 mins late, do the customers get to sue? Are they entitled to a refund if the show starts 1 minute late. And by whose watch? It seems extreme. Another thing is that most audiences are accustomed to at least a couple of minutes of previews (many actually enjoy a couple) and so give themselves a little time to arrive, get comfortable, visit restrooms/concession, etc. When I have run films with no previews (it has happened occassionally when no good ones are available, or the film is exceedingly long) people get pissed off that the movie started right away when they are used to previews.
In fact, since my theater only shows 2 to 3 previews, people STILL miss the movie because the other chain theaters have acclimated them to 12-15 minutes of ads, previews, etc., so they arrive late.
The point is that the movie is advertised to begin at 8:00. It does not – the ADS begin at 8:00. So that is a deceptive business practice. End of story. The theatres should publish the exact start time of the movie…
With or without ads, my theatre will be profitable. The issue to me is simple. Should we care about our customers likes or dislikes. I believe the answer is yes, to a point. Studies have shown that with such bombardment the retention of any of that stuff, and most importantly, the coming attractions, is limited to the last 3 trailers on screen. That’s why I don’t play the ads, I want to help MY business, not sell some underarm deodorant.
Years ago, I was a part of of some meetings whereby some studio/distribution folks outright said to the major chains, “we create the market and since we spend all that dough, we want a piece of all exhibitor revenues (yes, including concessions). Well, the answer was "take a hike Jack!” and they did.
Soon thereafter, Disney called a news conference and stated that because pubic outcry was such, they were banning rolling-stock advertising from playing with their features. Warner Bros. soon followed. It is actually a part of many licensing agreements that you can’t play the ads, though admittedly only Warner and Disney enforce them.
So, I wouldn’t be surprised that the heavy hand of distribution will end up policing this issue for all the do-gooders politicians. It’s hard when you’re a major chain and the bauble of all those cool lobby flat screens and the digital players are dangled in fromt of you. Imagine the countless millions that would be spent on that stuff otherwise.
I do not believe that the big chains would lower ticket prices if they got the break on the film rentals. 70-90% splits for a major movie is not new….ads seem to be (commercials, not slides) except for the infamous L.A. Times ads that ran in almost every L.A. Theater. Concession prices have always been high compared to the same thing outside of the theater. I also do not think that chains run ads only because they are “forced to if they want to survive”. They would continue to charge high prices and run ads because it would be a source of revenue they would not want to give up. Again, I am talking the large, post bankrupt chains and not the small operators. I truly feel for an independent trying to make a go of a theater these days.
One thing to keep in mind, this Miriam Fisch from Illinois IS a politician…..I find it hard to believe she all of a sudden has developed a crusade against movie theater advertisement….She is looking for publicity and nothing else…..whenever her hidden agenda is accomplished, you will not hear another thing about this…..If she had any true conviction, maybe she should look at the oppressive booking practices of the studios….kind of reminds you of block bookings from yester years…..remember…how do you tell if a politician is telling a lie…there lips are moving.
Just to clarify as far as the ticket prices are concerned they really dont have a say in ticket pricing because you see in the big markets the studios dictate the prices if we dont agree to charge a set price per terms of rental agreement inwhich lets say universal wants 7.25 per ticket charged and instead we were to charge 6.50 then the next time universal would not give us a print instead give it to another theater willing to charge what they want.
What Alot of people who are not in the business dont understand is that the theaters are a tight rope when it comes to getting studio prints and really this applys to major market and if the chains dint follow what the studios dictate then they dont get the prints no prints no theater and no place for customers to go to see movies. If there is to be change with ads being ran before features there must be less restrictions on the theater chains in relation to rental agreements and therefore that would allow theaters to lower ticket prices and concession prices by not having to rely on ads a good source of revenue.
The promblem with these lawsuits is the theatre chains and advertisers lawyers will argue why there should be ads. The big chains like JP Morgan’s AMC Theatres/National Cinema Network, Regal Entertainment Group/Regal CineNet and others will, if they lose, appeal and appeal the appeals if they lose the appeals.
I think people wouldn’t be as upset about the ads if the money that was made from them helped lower the cost of going to the movies. Ticket prices already limit how much I go to the theater. I usually these days just wait to see all the movies on cable.
We don’t have a problem seeing the ads….we never seem to be able to get inside the theater before the lights are dim…..I do agree with others…we are bombarded with advertisements all the time, if I am dropping $60 to $70 for a movie and day old popcorn, I sure as hell do not want to sit through advertisements….Now that said, I do not mind the slide shows before the movie that features movie trivia and advertisements for say local little league baseball or a local school fundraisers. What do you think??
As I have posted on the poll regarding this topic,
My theater just started showing these ads in January. We held out as long as we could, but they are an easy form of revenue and we lost money last year, so they make a difference in keeping my 91 year old moviehouse open. I absolutely hate them, to be sure, but they are helpful, and most audiences are (sadly) accustomed to them. I have yet to field a complaint, and I was bracing myself for an onslaught.
We make a genuine effort to start them earlier than the showtime so people aren’t forced to watch a longer show.
I also point out to folks that our ticket prices are 40% cheaper than other area theaters and the ads help keep them substantially lower.
One way the theaters could prevent such a lawsuit (which I personally think is frivolous) is to simply put a line in their advertising listings that says something to the effect of “Showtimes indicate start of program, including ads, previews, and other content”. That would, at least, be truth in advertising.
Funny thing people watch commercials all the time on T.V..Remember when cable came out it was great because there were no Ads.How long did that last?
Geez, I really don’t care.I wish it was 1974 AGAIN.
Not only ads but TV commercials!!! If I was inclined to watch TV, why would I be sitting in a theater? I don’t want to see TV programs advertized while I’m at the movie. This doesn’t make sense to me. The sound is nice in the theater, but with the new home sound systems, why pay so much to sit there and watch ads. As one other said; previews fine, but not ads and definitely not TV program ads. Wake up theater owners!!
Thanks Marty B. And to make another point if the studios have their way in the future everyone will be paying even higher prices at both the boxoffice and conncession stand because of DLP Projectors(for those who dont know what dlp is its digital laser projection). As a result prints will be phased out like bata tapes and players. And for the small operators this means very expensive dlp projectors to be installed and wireless dishes on the roof inorder to download movies instead of recieving prints by shipping companies. Dlp projectors will cost twice as much as conventional projectors.
Every theatre that I attend posts the time that the trailers start, not the time that the ads start. Maybe this isn’t true everywhere. I hate the ads also, but poster Barry Lee has it right: in the opening weeks of a film, the theatre gets only 10-20% of the take. Movie theaters are concession stands that show movies, not movies that happen to have concession stands. That’s why the junk food they sell costs so much.
If we fight to eliminate the ads, we’ll probably win, but four things will happen as a result:
1. Many more theaters will close, especially those in large cities and expensive suburbs where land values are high.
2. Ticket prices will rise.
3. Theaters will be even more reluctant to invest in better facilities, projection, sound, etc.
4. Incompetent popcorn kids will be running the projectors instead of trained projectionists (this is happening already.)
So my vote is to live with the ads. In the theaters I attend, the house lights are up during the ads and you can talk to your friends during the ads. This really isn’t a big deal. The fact that a lawsuit was actually brought against this goes to prove that Americans are the most stupidly litigious people on the fact of the planet. Get a life.
Those were great days for the Somerville Theatre, Ian – working for Garen, the double features, the midnight specials on Friday and Saturday nights, the programming in general, and the anticipation that surrounded the experience of that first look at each new film calendar as it arrived at the theatre, checking to see what the next two months would bring… fun times and I’m glad the Somerville Theatre is still going strong. I’ll definitely pop in and say ‘hi’ the next time I’m back in Boston.
Thanks Manwithnoname! And having attended movies in larger markets, I totally understand your frustration with loud latecomers. Theaters should have ‘cell phone check rooms’ like they used to have coat check rooms.
IAN: I just reviewed the write up of the Somerville in Cinema Treasures and I want to thank you for your part in keeping such a beautiful place alive.
JManz, that’s true but I didn’t hear you mention commercials as part of the grand days schedule. Everything you mentioned is part of the show. Commercials are not. You are right, we hate advertising but are bombarded with it every minute of every day. Can you imagine going to work everyday and having Spongebob staring at you from the back of the bus you are riding behind?? AArrgghh.
IAN: I understand your point about the contract and respect that. Not admitting latecomers, in my opinion, depends on the venue. In an independent environment it would make enemies but in Metro Los Angeles I assure you we are all sick and tired of latecomers chattering, blocking the view, shutting off cell phones (when the DO shut them off), finishing conversations, locating their friends and generally causing distractions when the feature is well under way even 25 minutes after the scheduled start. I am happy to spend a little more to minimize that.
When everyone and their mother knows that lots of ads precede the feature attraction at a movie theatre, it becomes a hard sell to say someone is “deceived” when the movie starts 15 minutes after the advertised showtime.
In fact, the industry has operated in this manner since the grand days of the palacial theatre. The theatre advertised the showtime, but everyone knew that showtime included a few newsreels, maybe a cartoon, sometimes a sing-a-long, a contest, the “B” feature, the coming attractions that trailed the “B” feature (trailers), maybe a serial like “Buck Rogers”, and then…the feature. What if people were interminable grousers back then like they are today?
The fact is Americans generally hate advertising, whether its “free” on TV or a part of a feature showtime at the movies.
Manwithnoname: I cannot comment on the specific terms of our contract (I don’t want this friendly discussion to turn into a messy contract thing), but as for denying people entry once the feature begins, that would create more enemies than friends.
br91975: I didn’t realize you used to go to the Somerville so much (and I am assuming you worked for Garen Daly back then? What great programming the place had back in the day! Double features, festivals, great stuff) next time you are in the area stop in and say hi! I went there for movies as a kid whenever I could, and have a lot of fun running the place now.
While I think br91975 makes some excellent points I do not believe that showing the ads before the posted showtime is a solution. The company placing the ads is not paying for people NOT to see them but the idea is to expose the ad to as many people as possible. Maybe Ian can tell us if the contract to show the ads includes a provision that they be shown as part of the show.
FOR IAN: The policy at Arclight is not to seat latecomers once the feature begins. Of course, that is not always enforced.
Below is the comment I posted last night on this week’s quiz page…
I’m not a fan of commercials being shown before movies (trailers, yes- even though most tend to give away the majority of a film’s plot in only a few minutes' time; commercials themselves, no) but, reading Ian M. Judge’s comments, I recognize them as being a necessary evil; again, I’m not fond of them, but I understand why theatres – chains and indies – resort to showing them.
Pacific Theatres, the operator of the ArcLight and Cinerama Dome complex, does a fantastic thing in not showing commercials; the trade-off, of course, being an increase in ticket price. While most of us claim that to be a fair bargain, the fact is, a sizeable percentage would complain about the increase in the cost of admission, despite filmgoing being the best entertainment bargain around.
The fair compromise to me (again, going back to the policy of the theatre where Ian is employed, which I believe to be the Somerville Theatre, my boyhood moviegoing haunt and the place where I had my first job at the age of 10, distributing film program calendars in the Somerville and Cambridge area during the mid-‘80s) is to show commercials before the announced showtime; theatre owners still gain their revenue and those of us who prefer to avoid ads win as well.
posted by br91975 on Mar 08, 05 | 10:35 pm
Again, as long as the ad said something to the effect of “showtimes include full program of ads, previews and other content” that would be fair.
It is impossible to advertise the exact showtime the actual feature begins – what if one set of three previews is 6 mins long and a different set is 7 mins? And then what if the projectionist goofs up and starts the movie 5 mins late, do the customers get to sue? Are they entitled to a refund if the show starts 1 minute late. And by whose watch? It seems extreme. Another thing is that most audiences are accustomed to at least a couple of minutes of previews (many actually enjoy a couple) and so give themselves a little time to arrive, get comfortable, visit restrooms/concession, etc. When I have run films with no previews (it has happened occassionally when no good ones are available, or the film is exceedingly long) people get pissed off that the movie started right away when they are used to previews.
In fact, since my theater only shows 2 to 3 previews, people STILL miss the movie because the other chain theaters have acclimated them to 12-15 minutes of ads, previews, etc., so they arrive late.
You just can’t please everyone!
The point is that the movie is advertised to begin at 8:00. It does not – the ADS begin at 8:00. So that is a deceptive business practice. End of story. The theatres should publish the exact start time of the movie…
With or without ads, my theatre will be profitable. The issue to me is simple. Should we care about our customers likes or dislikes. I believe the answer is yes, to a point. Studies have shown that with such bombardment the retention of any of that stuff, and most importantly, the coming attractions, is limited to the last 3 trailers on screen. That’s why I don’t play the ads, I want to help MY business, not sell some underarm deodorant.
Years ago, I was a part of of some meetings whereby some studio/distribution folks outright said to the major chains, “we create the market and since we spend all that dough, we want a piece of all exhibitor revenues (yes, including concessions). Well, the answer was "take a hike Jack!” and they did.
Soon thereafter, Disney called a news conference and stated that because pubic outcry was such, they were banning rolling-stock advertising from playing with their features. Warner Bros. soon followed. It is actually a part of many licensing agreements that you can’t play the ads, though admittedly only Warner and Disney enforce them.
So, I wouldn’t be surprised that the heavy hand of distribution will end up policing this issue for all the do-gooders politicians. It’s hard when you’re a major chain and the bauble of all those cool lobby flat screens and the digital players are dangled in fromt of you. Imagine the countless millions that would be spent on that stuff otherwise.
I do not believe that the big chains would lower ticket prices if they got the break on the film rentals. 70-90% splits for a major movie is not new….ads seem to be (commercials, not slides) except for the infamous L.A. Times ads that ran in almost every L.A. Theater. Concession prices have always been high compared to the same thing outside of the theater. I also do not think that chains run ads only because they are “forced to if they want to survive”. They would continue to charge high prices and run ads because it would be a source of revenue they would not want to give up. Again, I am talking the large, post bankrupt chains and not the small operators. I truly feel for an independent trying to make a go of a theater these days.
One thing to keep in mind, this Miriam Fisch from Illinois IS a politician…..I find it hard to believe she all of a sudden has developed a crusade against movie theater advertisement….She is looking for publicity and nothing else…..whenever her hidden agenda is accomplished, you will not hear another thing about this…..If she had any true conviction, maybe she should look at the oppressive booking practices of the studios….kind of reminds you of block bookings from yester years…..remember…how do you tell if a politician is telling a lie…there lips are moving.
Just to clarify as far as the ticket prices are concerned they really dont have a say in ticket pricing because you see in the big markets the studios dictate the prices if we dont agree to charge a set price per terms of rental agreement inwhich lets say universal wants 7.25 per ticket charged and instead we were to charge 6.50 then the next time universal would not give us a print instead give it to another theater willing to charge what they want.
What Alot of people who are not in the business dont understand is that the theaters are a tight rope when it comes to getting studio prints and really this applys to major market and if the chains dint follow what the studios dictate then they dont get the prints no prints no theater and no place for customers to go to see movies. If there is to be change with ads being ran before features there must be less restrictions on the theater chains in relation to rental agreements and therefore that would allow theaters to lower ticket prices and concession prices by not having to rely on ads a good source of revenue.
The promblem with these lawsuits is the theatre chains and advertisers lawyers will argue why there should be ads. The big chains like JP Morgan’s AMC Theatres/National Cinema Network, Regal Entertainment Group/Regal CineNet and others will, if they lose, appeal and appeal the appeals if they lose the appeals.
I think people wouldn’t be as upset about the ads if the money that was made from them helped lower the cost of going to the movies. Ticket prices already limit how much I go to the theater. I usually these days just wait to see all the movies on cable.
We don’t have a problem seeing the ads….we never seem to be able to get inside the theater before the lights are dim…..I do agree with others…we are bombarded with advertisements all the time, if I am dropping $60 to $70 for a movie and day old popcorn, I sure as hell do not want to sit through advertisements….Now that said, I do not mind the slide shows before the movie that features movie trivia and advertisements for say local little league baseball or a local school fundraisers. What do you think??
Theaters are in bsns to make money. ………………………..
As I have posted on the poll regarding this topic,
My theater just started showing these ads in January. We held out as long as we could, but they are an easy form of revenue and we lost money last year, so they make a difference in keeping my 91 year old moviehouse open. I absolutely hate them, to be sure, but they are helpful, and most audiences are (sadly) accustomed to them. I have yet to field a complaint, and I was bracing myself for an onslaught.
We make a genuine effort to start them earlier than the showtime so people aren’t forced to watch a longer show.
I also point out to folks that our ticket prices are 40% cheaper than other area theaters and the ads help keep them substantially lower.
One way the theaters could prevent such a lawsuit (which I personally think is frivolous) is to simply put a line in their advertising listings that says something to the effect of “Showtimes indicate start of program, including ads, previews, and other content”. That would, at least, be truth in advertising.
I agree with many that previews are fine but commercials shouldn’t be shown. They are unrelated to the movie and the movie experience.