Yes jnj, I understand what you means. After all, only gays will see BROKEBACK and only Jews will see MUNICH and only African Americans will see GLORY ROAD and only Hobbits saw THE LORD OF THE RINGS.
It will be impressive considering that it’ll be nominated for Oscars and will probably go on to gross over $70M – much more impressive than Hoodwinked (the number one movie in America) or In The Mix considering the hurdles it had to over come to get there. Sorry, but can be considered a hit, after all it has taken in more than doubled its production budget, not many movies can actually claim this. Obviously there is a market for this picture, even in markets where indie film is rare (let alone films with homosexual subtext, but this is an A-list picture with stars, not a limited-apeal queer movie from Strand Releasing). If the film does $100M can you honestly say there is no market for it in a certain part of this country? If a film made $100M and I thought it offended my morals I think I’d be interested in seeing it just to understand why it did so well and why it caught on. I feel insulted by Napeoplon Dynomite and can’t understand why it caught on, but it did. Considering what it is 83rd is impressive – after all it’s still platforming out. If its nominated for enough Oscars it will be playing at every 6-plex in the country.
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN REIGNS at the Golden Globes. Interesting, it is still inlimited release and was still in the top 10 ( number 9). Steven Spielbergs Muncih is in wide release and number 11
According to an AP story today Brokeback placed 9th in last weekend’s ticket sales but still has the highest per screen average at $10,330 per screen and is still going strong in every market it is playing in, despite it’s gay theme. Last night it won 4 Golden Globes including best picture, director, screenplay and song.
Wondering if jn’s theatre will show Transamerica (Felicity Huffman-Best Actress Golden Globe) – about a transexual or Copote (Phillip S Hoffman-Best Actor Golden Globe) about an openly gay writer??
Boredom is a rare emotion for me. It’s not a pleasant emotion. Somehow it has reared its ugly head in this discussion and since I legally and morally cannot continue a discussion with a person who doesn’t realize the difference between ‘forth’ and ‘fourth’, I must bow out and retire. Some will be saddened, some will be relieved, some just won’t care. For my last dig at jnjeisen, I will quote from the great and glorious Carol Burnett show….“Eunice, you have cobwebs in the windmills of your mind; you’re playing with a warped puck.”
“Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.” H.G. Wells
“Theologians are all alike, of whatever religion or country they may be; their aim is always to wield despotic authority over men’s consciences; they therefore persecute all of us who have the temerity to tell the truth.”
Frederick the Great, letter to Voltaire, 1736
“The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.” Havelock Ellis
“Too much of a good thing is simply wonderful.” Mae West
Would you ever book a movie, advertise show times and then pull it even after you entered into a contract to show it because you found the content to be offensive? In a way that is doing a disservice to your audience by falsely advertising a picture.
And how would you even define morals- would you play a film that’s pornographic in terms of violence like Hostel because you think it’ll be a hit? Or a movie like Britney Spear’s Crossroads which is an evil tool designed to teach teen and pre-teen girls everywhere the one person to lose your virginity to is a dangerous looking older guy because he drives a nice car, and the film also grabbles with the abortion issue? Did you show that movie?
I’m Catholic and heterosexual, as well as a shareholder in GE and am disgusted by Larry Miller’s business practices in this situation. I feel Universal should pull all of his product, including his print of King Kong; we should be out of the business of Megaplex 17. If he were a bigger chain, like an AMC or a Regal the issue would be dangerous, if both AMC and Regal found the film offensive you’d be blocked from a good share of the market.
I wonder what he did with that extra screen, letting a theater go dark for a week is probably a good movie from an economics 101. If anything Miller created a demand for it at near-by theaters, calling attention to it. I think when people go to the movies they have some understanding of what a certain movie is, you don’t wonder into a film without any clue of what you’re getting in to.
Al, for the forth time, due to the fact I happen to live and own a theatre in an area that does not have a substantial gay community to support it, I will not play Brokeback. It is an old and worn out tactic to claim censorship when it is economics 101.
I disagree. This discussion is about censorship in American today and the 1950’s style atmosphere of hate and religious supremacy. Of course a theatre owner can do as he or she pleases. The justification is what worries me. There was equal outrage (not in these pages) when theatres refused to show FAHRENHEIT 911 and THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST. I would question the motivation of any theatre owner who censors a movie then starts bible thumping to justify their oppressive decision.
Al, My brother condemned himself with his decision to be an active participant in a lifestyle he himself knew better than most was extremely risky. As for hateful intolerance, please do not lump my brother in with you when you get out your wide brush and start painting. My brother discovered that it was his ignorance towards Christians that made HIM intolerant. I simply believe it is more compassionate to speak out against a behavior which prematurely takes the lives of some of our greatest men (and women),instead of sticking my head in the sand and denying that the behavior is the root cause. Finally, I never advocated banning this film. I repeat for the third time, I simply made a decision, as I must every week, that this film would not benefit my theatre in MY market.
jn, re-read your posts and open your mind. You have condemned your brother to death although he is still alive, have blamed homosexuality on his disease, and preached approval for the banning of a film due to a gay subject. It is this hateful intolerance that we and your brother see and you seem unable to. Have you no sense of decency?
It is interesting to watch everyone assign motives to me. Here is something to ponder (right now I wonder how many casual observers to this post are cringing because I’m going to get the boys fired up again after they finally settled down)…Is it possible that members of the Gay community have isolated themselves so much that they don’t really know the world outside of the homosexual culture and because of this they only assign bad motives to those of us who disagree with their lifestyle? This was the case with my brother. He is a talented, loving, caring, generous person who is gay. After our parents died in 1983, he moved and became active in the gay community and fell out of touch with the rest of the family. It wasn’t that we didn’t accept him…for years we couldn’t even find him. In 2003, thanks to the internet, we found him and arranged a family get together for Thanksgiving. Part of finding him was also discovering that he was a gay activist. This made for a couple of very interesting and memorable days. I think I can accurately say that the biggest shock came not from us coming face-to-face with his homosexuality, it came from the stereotype of Christians my brother brought with him. He was sure that he understood how all Christians viewed him and he was truly a Bigot in that respect. It was really fun to have him get to know and understand us and see us in a way he had never considered…kind, compassionate, loving, and understanding. It was easier for him to believe we were the kind of Christians his community made us out to be…Hypocritical, judgemental, self righteous and if I forgot anything you can refer to the above posts to find more.
I think ultimately this issue revolves around Homosexuality vs. Christianity. The Bible states clearly in five places that homosexual behavior is sin. Leviticus 18:22; 20:13, Romans 1:26,27
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 and 1 Timothy 1:9&10. Sexual lust and fantasy, both homosexual and heterosexual, are sinful according to God’s Word.
Christians who believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God simply cannot accept the sin which usually accompanies
homosexuality. This DOES NOT give them the right to mistreat the homosexual in any way. Unfortunately, people—Christians included— don’t always treat others the way they, themselves, would want to be treated… see above posts…
Vokoban,
I did a little research into “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinnerâ€.
From the New York Times, March 7, 1968
“Police armed with riot equipment moved into a section of Hamilton (Ohio) tonight and quelled an outbreak by young Negroes who shattered store windows. Police said the outbreak was apparently the aftermath of picketing here earlier at the Main Theater by 10 members of the United Klans of America.â€
From Director Stanley Kramer also in the NYT.
“The primary objection to “Guess who…†was the fact that the film was made in the first place…The problem isn’t the south at all: except for the smaller communities. It’s in the North, the site of the big city ghetto. And the film has been doing smashing business everywhere including Atlanta, New Orleans, and all points south…the seeds of the next revolution are planted during this one.â€
No theatre seems to have been lame enough to ban “Guess who…â€
I can only find one case where a Stanley Kramer film was banned. That was BLESS THE BEASTS & CHILDREN. That was at …wait for it… Brigham Young University, Salt Lake City. That film was banned for being “too real for our peopleâ€
(NYT Aug 12, 1971)
The fact that is offensive is they passed after it had been booked. Nine Songs is a diffrent case – presumably it could be banned as a community standard (it has actual graphic sex). I wouldn’t expect Megaplex to play that movie but this one is a.– a hit, b.-crossing into the mainstream and c.-had showtimes advertised. To say all of SLC or Utah is uncultured is unfair (remember Utah houses the most important film festival to independent cinema!) What is so offensive is it was censored after it was booked and it was considred a busness decission. It’s dumb that it has been blown out of context here with religious attacks and attacks on Utah – any attack should be directed at and only at Larry Miller.
I don’t think anyone could argue those points. Some markets just don’t work with some films and some movies have no second run life. This is a mainstream theatre, a mainstream film, and a relatively major American City we are talking about. If the Megaplex passed on NINE SONGS, THE SQUID AND THE WHALE or even LATTER DAYS no one would have commented. Those films have a hard time at the multiplex outside of certain upmarket areas. This film is selling out in El Paso, Texas. Are we to understand El Paso is more sophisticated than SLC?
And the second-run theatre nearest to me elected not to pick up The Passion of the Christ when it became available. The owner of the theatre simply did not want to show this movie, even though it would have done a fair amount of business there. This was perfectly within his rights. But of course, he didn’t advertise the movie and then pull it.
jnjeisen is indeed a theater operator. As I said in a previous posting, ALL theater owners, be they independently owned or chain-owned are free to book or not book any film. If that owner feels that the local customers would not see it then why book something that would lose money?
There is a Mormon-owned theater about 90 miles from me way out in the sticks that does not show any “R” rated movies—-period. Their local community does not like movies with sex, violence, crude language, etc. That theater is still open and business is fine.
In November 1985, Sack Theatres chairman Alan Friedberg gave into pressure from Catholic extremists and cancelled a premiere of Jean-Luc Godard’s Hail, Mary. The movie had been scheduled to open at Sack’s Paris Cinema in Boston’s Back Bay.
After Sack pulled out, the movie instead opened across the river at the Orson Welles Cinema in Cambridge. The theatre was picketed, but the shows went on as scheduled.
One difference betweeen this situation and the one in Utah: Sack announced the cancellation five days before the premiere was to occur. This was enough time for the Orson Welles to pick up the film and premiere it on the originally scheduled date. In fact, the Welles had previously bid on the film but had lost it to Sack.
(sorry to post this in two different places, but the discussion is going on in both)
I know nothing about it, yet, but I wonder if the original Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner had a similar response across this country (USA) from all of the ‘normal’ people.
Yes jnj, I understand what you means. After all, only gays will see BROKEBACK and only Jews will see MUNICH and only African Americans will see GLORY ROAD and only Hobbits saw THE LORD OF THE RINGS.
It will be impressive considering that it’ll be nominated for Oscars and will probably go on to gross over $70M – much more impressive than Hoodwinked (the number one movie in America) or In The Mix considering the hurdles it had to over come to get there. Sorry, but can be considered a hit, after all it has taken in more than doubled its production budget, not many movies can actually claim this. Obviously there is a market for this picture, even in markets where indie film is rare (let alone films with homosexual subtext, but this is an A-list picture with stars, not a limited-apeal queer movie from Strand Releasing). If the film does $100M can you honestly say there is no market for it in a certain part of this country? If a film made $100M and I thought it offended my morals I think I’d be interested in seeing it just to understand why it did so well and why it caught on. I feel insulted by Napeoplon Dynomite and can’t understand why it caught on, but it did. Considering what it is 83rd is impressive – after all it’s still platforming out. If its nominated for enough Oscars it will be playing at every 6-plex in the country.
Impressive…Now the 83rd highest grossing movie released in 2005.
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN REIGNS at the Golden Globes. Interesting, it is still inlimited release and was still in the top 10 ( number 9). Steven Spielbergs Muncih is in wide release and number 11
According to an AP story today Brokeback placed 9th in last weekend’s ticket sales but still has the highest per screen average at $10,330 per screen and is still going strong in every market it is playing in, despite it’s gay theme. Last night it won 4 Golden Globes including best picture, director, screenplay and song.
Wondering if jn’s theatre will show Transamerica (Felicity Huffman-Best Actress Golden Globe) – about a transexual or Copote (Phillip S Hoffman-Best Actor Golden Globe) about an openly gay writer??
Jnjeisen…you remind me of a very young Scrappy Doo.
Quit holding YOUR “market” accountable for YOUR morals…
You talk about your “gay brother” like a teenager talks to a “friend” at the STD clinic.
Closets are for clothes. Come onnn OUT!!!
Luv,
Me
The vast majority of the audiences for this film seem to be straight. Economics 101 indeed.
Boredom is a rare emotion for me. It’s not a pleasant emotion. Somehow it has reared its ugly head in this discussion and since I legally and morally cannot continue a discussion with a person who doesn’t realize the difference between ‘forth’ and ‘fourth’, I must bow out and retire. Some will be saddened, some will be relieved, some just won’t care. For my last dig at jnjeisen, I will quote from the great and glorious Carol Burnett show….“Eunice, you have cobwebs in the windmills of your mind; you’re playing with a warped puck.”
“Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.” H.G. Wells
“Theologians are all alike, of whatever religion or country they may be; their aim is always to wield despotic authority over men’s consciences; they therefore persecute all of us who have the temerity to tell the truth.”
Frederick the Great, letter to Voltaire, 1736
“The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.” Havelock Ellis
“Too much of a good thing is simply wonderful.” Mae West
FIN
Would you ever book a movie, advertise show times and then pull it even after you entered into a contract to show it because you found the content to be offensive? In a way that is doing a disservice to your audience by falsely advertising a picture.
And how would you even define morals- would you play a film that’s pornographic in terms of violence like Hostel because you think it’ll be a hit? Or a movie like Britney Spear’s Crossroads which is an evil tool designed to teach teen and pre-teen girls everywhere the one person to lose your virginity to is a dangerous looking older guy because he drives a nice car, and the film also grabbles with the abortion issue? Did you show that movie?
I’m Catholic and heterosexual, as well as a shareholder in GE and am disgusted by Larry Miller’s business practices in this situation. I feel Universal should pull all of his product, including his print of King Kong; we should be out of the business of Megaplex 17. If he were a bigger chain, like an AMC or a Regal the issue would be dangerous, if both AMC and Regal found the film offensive you’d be blocked from a good share of the market.
I wonder what he did with that extra screen, letting a theater go dark for a week is probably a good movie from an economics 101. If anything Miller created a demand for it at near-by theaters, calling attention to it. I think when people go to the movies they have some understanding of what a certain movie is, you don’t wonder into a film without any clue of what you’re getting in to.
Al, for the forth time, due to the fact I happen to live and own a theatre in an area that does not have a substantial gay community to support it, I will not play Brokeback. It is an old and worn out tactic to claim censorship when it is economics 101.
I disagree. This discussion is about censorship in American today and the 1950’s style atmosphere of hate and religious supremacy. Of course a theatre owner can do as he or she pleases. The justification is what worries me. There was equal outrage (not in these pages) when theatres refused to show FAHRENHEIT 911 and THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST. I would question the motivation of any theatre owner who censors a movie then starts bible thumping to justify their oppressive decision.
This discussion has gone far afield from the original news item, which was about a theatre owner cancelling an advertised booking on opening day.
Al, My brother condemned himself with his decision to be an active participant in a lifestyle he himself knew better than most was extremely risky. As for hateful intolerance, please do not lump my brother in with you when you get out your wide brush and start painting. My brother discovered that it was his ignorance towards Christians that made HIM intolerant. I simply believe it is more compassionate to speak out against a behavior which prematurely takes the lives of some of our greatest men (and women),instead of sticking my head in the sand and denying that the behavior is the root cause. Finally, I never advocated banning this film. I repeat for the third time, I simply made a decision, as I must every week, that this film would not benefit my theatre in MY market.
jn, re-read your posts and open your mind. You have condemned your brother to death although he is still alive, have blamed homosexuality on his disease, and preached approval for the banning of a film due to a gay subject. It is this hateful intolerance that we and your brother see and you seem unable to. Have you no sense of decency?
It is interesting to watch everyone assign motives to me. Here is something to ponder (right now I wonder how many casual observers to this post are cringing because I’m going to get the boys fired up again after they finally settled down)…Is it possible that members of the Gay community have isolated themselves so much that they don’t really know the world outside of the homosexual culture and because of this they only assign bad motives to those of us who disagree with their lifestyle? This was the case with my brother. He is a talented, loving, caring, generous person who is gay. After our parents died in 1983, he moved and became active in the gay community and fell out of touch with the rest of the family. It wasn’t that we didn’t accept him…for years we couldn’t even find him. In 2003, thanks to the internet, we found him and arranged a family get together for Thanksgiving. Part of finding him was also discovering that he was a gay activist. This made for a couple of very interesting and memorable days. I think I can accurately say that the biggest shock came not from us coming face-to-face with his homosexuality, it came from the stereotype of Christians my brother brought with him. He was sure that he understood how all Christians viewed him and he was truly a Bigot in that respect. It was really fun to have him get to know and understand us and see us in a way he had never considered…kind, compassionate, loving, and understanding. It was easier for him to believe we were the kind of Christians his community made us out to be…Hypocritical, judgemental, self righteous and if I forgot anything you can refer to the above posts to find more.
I think ultimately this issue revolves around Homosexuality vs. Christianity. The Bible states clearly in five places that homosexual behavior is sin. Leviticus 18:22; 20:13, Romans 1:26,27
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 and 1 Timothy 1:9&10. Sexual lust and fantasy, both homosexual and heterosexual, are sinful according to God’s Word.
Christians who believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God simply cannot accept the sin which usually accompanies
homosexuality. This DOES NOT give them the right to mistreat the homosexual in any way. Unfortunately, people—Christians included— don’t always treat others the way they, themselves, would want to be treated… see above posts…
Interesting. I guess I’m a bit confused on what “too real for our people” means.
Brigham Young University is not located in Salt Lake City.
Vokoban,
I did a little research into “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinnerâ€.
From the New York Times, March 7, 1968
“Police armed with riot equipment moved into a section of Hamilton (Ohio) tonight and quelled an outbreak by young Negroes who shattered store windows. Police said the outbreak was apparently the aftermath of picketing here earlier at the Main Theater by 10 members of the United Klans of America.â€
From Director Stanley Kramer also in the NYT.
“The primary objection to “Guess who…†was the fact that the film was made in the first place…The problem isn’t the south at all: except for the smaller communities. It’s in the North, the site of the big city ghetto. And the film has been doing smashing business everywhere including Atlanta, New Orleans, and all points south…the seeds of the next revolution are planted during this one.â€
No theatre seems to have been lame enough to ban “Guess who…â€
I can only find one case where a Stanley Kramer film was banned. That was BLESS THE BEASTS & CHILDREN. That was at …wait for it… Brigham Young University, Salt Lake City. That film was banned for being “too real for our peopleâ€
(NYT Aug 12, 1971)
The fact that is offensive is they passed after it had been booked. Nine Songs is a diffrent case – presumably it could be banned as a community standard (it has actual graphic sex). I wouldn’t expect Megaplex to play that movie but this one is a.– a hit, b.-crossing into the mainstream and c.-had showtimes advertised. To say all of SLC or Utah is uncultured is unfair (remember Utah houses the most important film festival to independent cinema!) What is so offensive is it was censored after it was booked and it was considred a busness decission. It’s dumb that it has been blown out of context here with religious attacks and attacks on Utah – any attack should be directed at and only at Larry Miller.
I don’t think anyone could argue those points. Some markets just don’t work with some films and some movies have no second run life. This is a mainstream theatre, a mainstream film, and a relatively major American City we are talking about. If the Megaplex passed on NINE SONGS, THE SQUID AND THE WHALE or even LATTER DAYS no one would have commented. Those films have a hard time at the multiplex outside of certain upmarket areas. This film is selling out in El Paso, Texas. Are we to understand El Paso is more sophisticated than SLC?
And the second-run theatre nearest to me elected not to pick up The Passion of the Christ when it became available. The owner of the theatre simply did not want to show this movie, even though it would have done a fair amount of business there. This was perfectly within his rights. But of course, he didn’t advertise the movie and then pull it.
jnjeisen is indeed a theater operator. As I said in a previous posting, ALL theater owners, be they independently owned or chain-owned are free to book or not book any film. If that owner feels that the local customers would not see it then why book something that would lose money?
There is a Mormon-owned theater about 90 miles from me way out in the sticks that does not show any “R” rated movies—-period. Their local community does not like movies with sex, violence, crude language, etc. That theater is still open and business is fine.
In November 1985, Sack Theatres chairman Alan Friedberg gave into pressure from Catholic extremists and cancelled a premiere of Jean-Luc Godard’s Hail, Mary. The movie had been scheduled to open at Sack’s Paris Cinema in Boston’s Back Bay.
After Sack pulled out, the movie instead opened across the river at the Orson Welles Cinema in Cambridge. The theatre was picketed, but the shows went on as scheduled.
One difference betweeen this situation and the one in Utah: Sack announced the cancellation five days before the premiere was to occur. This was enough time for the Orson Welles to pick up the film and premiere it on the originally scheduled date. In fact, the Welles had previously bid on the film but had lost it to Sack.
(sorry to post this in two different places, but the discussion is going on in both)
I know nothing about it, yet, but I wonder if the original Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner had a similar response across this country (USA) from all of the ‘normal’ people.
Amen, KenRoe!