Grand Theater

As a warning to anyone who may go looking for information about the first Orpheum Theater in Los Angeles, I have noticed a discrepancy in the address posted for it in different sections of the L.A. Public Library's online data base. on many text pages in the photo database, the address is given as 125 S. Main Street, though there is at least one photograph of the Grand the accompanying text page for which identifies it as the home of the first Orpheum, and it is a certainty that the Grand was at 110 S. Main. Other sections of the database also clearly identify the Grand as the theater which the Orpheum Circuit leased for its first Los Angeles theater, and give the correct address. I have sent an e-mail to the L.A. Public Library informing them of the repeated error in their photo database, but thus far I have received no acknowledging reply, and there has been no correction made to their web site.

The Film Daily Yearbook's 1941 and 1943 have the Grand Theater listed. A seating capacity of 700 seats is given.

Ken:

Is that the Grand Theater at 125 South Main? My source for the closing date of 1936 was the text accompanying a photograph of the theater at the L.A. public library's online photo collection (search on "Childs Opera House".) It's apparently a paraphrase of the newspaper article that accompanied the picture at the time it was published (in either the Examiner or the Herald), which announced the impending demolition of the theater. (It also says that the theater had been known as El Teatro Mexico for the previous decade, which information I failed to include in my submission of the theater.)

Rats! I typed 125 South Main again, which is the wrong address. It's 110 South Main.

Joe;

Yes, both Film Daily Yearbook's have it listed as Grand (S. Main) 700 seats, so it is the 110 S. Main St location of Child's Opera House/Grand.

However, although the F.D.Y. gives great information, not all of it is accurate. I presume for the theatre listings in each edition, they took their lists from film renters/distributers and sometimes it could have taken a few editions for clusures and openings, or even name changes to work their way through into the next edition.

Therefore, your source of information that it was demolished in around 1936/7 could be correct. We could find out more later this year when the Theatre Historical Society of America publish their 2005 Annual, which is covering the history of the four Los Angeles Orpheum Theaters.

A book titled Before the Nickelodeon, by Charles Musser (University of California Press, 1991) Gives the Grand Theater's seating capacity as 1311 (as of 1896, two years after it became the first Los Angeles home of the Orpheum Vaudeville Circuit), giving as its source Julius Cahn's Official Theatrical Guide (New York, 1896.) This seems about right, judging from pictures I've seen of the theatre's interior. It was a good-sized house, with two balconies.

Musser's book also reveals that on July 6th, 1896, the Grand was the scene of the first theatrical exhibition of moving pictures in Los Angeles, when several short Edison films were shown, fresh from their west coast premier at the San Francisco Orpheum. The projectionist at this event was none other than William S. Porter, who would later go on to become one of the first successful directors of silent films.

The book quotes the almost giddy description of the event which was published by the Los Angeles Times:

"The theatre was darkened until it was as black as mid-night. Suddenly a strange whirling sound was heard. Upon a huge white sheet flashed forth the figure of Anna Belle Sun [sic ], whirling through the mazes of the serpentine dance. She swayed and nodded and tripped it lightly, the filmy draperies rising and falling and floating this way and that, all reproduced with startling reality, and the whole without a break except that now and then one could see swift electric sparks. Then the picture changed from the grey of a photograph to the color of life and next came the fairy-like butterfly dance. Then, without warning, darkness and the roar of applause that shook the theatre; and knew no pause till the next picture was flashed on the screen. This was long, lanky Uncle Sam who was defending Venezuela from fat little John Bull, and forcing the bully to his knees. Next came a representation of Herald Square in New York with streetcars and vans moving up and down, then Cissy Fitzgerald's dance and last of all a representation of the way May Irwin and John C. Rice kiss. Their smiles and glances and expressive gestures and the final joyous, overpowering, luscious osculation was repeated again and again, while the audience fairly shrieked and howled approval. The vitascope is a wonder, a marvel, an outstanding example of human ingenuity, and it had an instantaneous success on this, its first exhibition in Los Angeles. A representation of Niagara Falls is now on its way [from the] East, where it was first exhibited only two weeks ago, and this will be added to the bill on Thursday evening."

The Los Angeles Herald of July 14th noted that at least 20,000 people attended the Grand during the first week of this exhibition, and that perhaps a further 10,000 had been turned away for lack of space.

The Theatre Historical Society of America have details of 'Child's Grand Opera House closing on 5th April 1936 and it was soon demolished for a parking lot'.

Here are some pictures of the Grand, courtesy of the LA Public Library:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015325.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015326.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015327.jpg

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036862.jpg

1936, from the LA Library:

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics18/00028669.jpg

Here are three interesting photos from the LA Library. One is a good view of the interior. The last picture shows the theater at the end of its life, being encroached upon by the twentieth century.

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036855.jpg

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036853.jpg

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036854.jpg

I just noticed a typo in the third paragraph of the theatre's description. The appearance by Edwin Booth was not in 1877 (before the theatre even opened!), but in 1887.

ken mc: The library must have mislabeled the picture to which you linked in your Nov 30 comment. It has to be earlier than 1936. The picture shows above the theatre entrance the name "Grand Opera House" which, by 1936, had not been used for decades. From the pristine condition of the white stone facade (and the floor-length dress of the woman at the far left), I'd guess that the picture actually shows the theatre within a few years of its 1884 opening.

Well, Joe, here is a picture from the early twentieth century, as far as I can tell. You can make your own comparisons. The caption by the LA Library mistakenly places the theater at 112 S. Main, which would put it on the opposite side of the street. I did think that the 1936 date seemed a little off given the other picture from the 1930s which shows the wear and tear before the theater was obliterated.

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics09/00014009.jpg

This is from the late 1920s. The theater is on the left side of the street:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics09/00014195.jpg

That second picture is especially interesting. It shows the "Teatro Mexico" sign on the wall of the fly tower-- or is that the back wall of the auditorium? I've ever seen a ground plan of the place, so I don't know how far back from Main Street the auditorium began. Other early theatres, including the Mason, the Hippodrome and the Burbank all had their auditoriums well back from the street- partly occupying lots that actually fronted the next streets over. Everything on the block has been obliterated, so it would take an old ground plan (such as one of the Sanborn Insurance Maps) or an aerial photograph to find out how the theatre was arranged on its site.

The LA Library describes this theater as the first Orpheum, between 2nd and 3rd on Spring. The Lyceum later occupied that spot. The photo is from 1886:

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036867.jpg

Here are some additional interior photos from 1936:

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036859.jpg
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036856.jpg
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036861.jpg

LA Library dates this photo as 1/31/33, but I think it's from a much earlier date:
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045572.jpg

Here is a photo that I found purely by accident on the Denver Public Library website. The Orpheum Grand is in the middle of the photo, which was taken between 1895 and 1902:
http://tinyurl.com/mcem2

What theater was at Temple and Spring in 1936? Any ideas?
http://tinyurl.com/zwah2

Ken: That doesn't look like Temple and Spring looked in 1936. For one thing, the ground is level, and by 1936 Temple and Spring was a block farther west (on the hillside) than it had been before city hall was built. I'm thinking it's probably Temple and Main, and the theatre is on Main Street. My guess is that it's a theatre once called The Electric, at 212 N. Main. I don't think it's listed on CT under any name, but it's in a 1923 list of Main Street theatres running Paramount films which was posted by vokoban on the Optic Theatre page last December.

I wonder if this is Thomas Talley's famous Electric Theatre, which I believe was indeed in the 200 block of Main Street, but I'd always thought it was the 200 South block?

OK, I've found a reference to Talley's Electric Theatre of 1902, and it was at 262 South Main, so the Electric Theatre at 212 N. Main was a different place.

The sign just says "Theatre", which doesn't help.

The Electric at 212 N. Main is listed at Cinema Treasures after all, under its later name, the Roosevelt. I actually knew that last year, when I posted something about it on the Optic Theatre page, but I'd completely forgotten about it.

I posted the photo on the Roosevelt page. You may want to post your theory about the address on that page as the photo caption says Spring and Temple.

Here are excerpts from a 1962 article in the Pasadena Independent which discusses early theaters in Los Angeles:

So, without overture, let's raise the curtain on a period around 1912. The Mason Opera House, Broadway near First, was a favorite for road shows and notable stars. Flashing back to before the turn of the century in Los Angeles, the former Child's Opera House, Main near First, was housing Orpheum vaudeville. Later known as The Grand, "The Campus" had its long run there. For several seasons Ferris Harlman's musical comedy company had its home at The Grand. Other Main Street attractions were Lewis Stone at the Belasco and the great productions at the Burbank.

Burlesque wasn't a bad word in those days and a favored theater was The Olympic, across from the Burbank near 6th Street, where Blossom
Seeley and Frances White gained stardom. Jules Mendel (Pickle Heinz) was top comedian, supported by his wife, Rose. Decorative Vera Hansdale took the spotlight.

Switching to Spring Street, the Orpheum had moved to the Los Angeles Theater near 2nd. Perhaps you read recently that L.E. Behymer staged the opera, "La Boheme," there just 65 years ago. In this Orpheum
Leo Carrillo got his start as a story teller. Another theater further
south then took the name Los Angeles Theater and presented Kolb and Dill in "Pigs is Pigs." Later Sullivan and Considine turned the house to 10, 20 and 30 cent vaudeville, changed the name to Empress, and finally sold out to Marcus Loew.

Now, to Broadway where, in 1911 the third Orpheum opened near 6th. The last and finest Orpheum opened about 1925, near 9th, but was shortlived for major vaudeville's day ended in less than four years.

Ken: I see there's a mention of the Main Street Olympic, too, and of the mysterious second Los Angeles Theater on Spring Street which later became the Empress. I wonder if Marcus Loew kept the name Empress for it? That might make it easier to track down.

Not so mysterious, I don't think. The Los Angeles is the Lyceum, which is listed on CT. I imagine the Empress would also be an aka for the Los Angeles/Orpheum/Lyceum.

No, the first Los Angeles Theatre on the west side of Spring between 2nd and 3rd was the one that became the Lyceum. There was a second Los Angeles Theatre farther down Spring Street, on the east side between 3rd and 4th, and that's the one that became the Empress. The Los Angeles Theatre on Broadway is the third of that name. The second Los Angeles Theatre is not yet listed at CT under any name.

Duly noted.

Thanks for the info on the Grand. I'm very familiar with it (even recognized someone in the interior shot of players from the L.A. library you linked me to) because my mother was an actress/singer in the Spanish language theatre in Los Angeles in the 1920s and 30s. I'm looking for pics and info on the Hidalgo Theater on Main St. next to the Plaza Church and the Principal Theater (Teatro Principal)also on Main. Both were very active during that period. Does anyone have any information on either one?
Thanks.
WDL

wdl: A Principal Theater at 223 N. Main St. is listed on Cinema Treasures, but so far nobody has added any information about it. That location would have been on the west side of Main north of Temple. Everything on that block was demolished for Civic Center expansion ages ago.

If the Hidalgo was next door to the Plaza Church, then it must be the theater listed on Cinema Treasures as the Estella. That building has also been demolished. There are a few comments on the page, but most of them are about the theater's location, not about the theater itself.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but there's typically very little information available on the Internet (almost the only source I have available now) about these smaller theaters.

Here is a photo of Teatro Hidalgo from the 1920s:
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics35/00067232.jpg

Thanks for the photo. That is the Teatro Hidalgo I remember. Do you know whether there are any photos available that would show the buildings to the left of the theatre (or the right as we're facing it)? I recall that the Panaderia Esperanza and the Colon Restaurant were to the right of the theatre (or left as we face it) and the theatre was next to the Plaza Church. But it doesn't look that way in this photo. I tried logging on to the Library site to find any commentary to go with the picture, but wasn't able to -- could only get the picture through your info. Again, many thanks. I appreciate it very much.
WDL

Go into "browse photo collection" on the LAPL site and put in "Teatro Hidalgo" as the keyword. You will get the photo and the caption.

Here is an 1890 photo:
http://tinyurl.com/22f6le

Here is an 1889 photo from the USC collection:
http://tinyurl.com/2ac5zd

If you have good eyes or a magnifying glass, you can see a Grand Theater in the upper left of this 1914 USC photo. I don't know if it's this Grand or not. The photo description points out the Grand or I wouldn't have seen it. It still took me a while:
http://tinyurl.com/296c9x

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand what your trying to show with these photos. These are great photos if your a pigeon looking for a place to nest.

Ken, USC's caption writer missed the most theatrically interesting feature of that photo. The big, dark building at center left is the side wall of the Mason Opera House, the auditorium on the left and the much taller stage house on the right, each with its own roof gable. I think that the white double door near the upper left corner of the building might have been the entrance to the segregated second balcony, which was entered from Hill Street rather than Broadway.

I didn't see that, but I do now. So the view would be looking east from Bunker Hill. That leads me to believe that it's probably this Grand over on Main Street, seen from the back.

The Melrose Hotel, from which the photo was taken, was on the east side of Grand Avenue north of Second Street, so, yes, the view is east with Olive Street in the foreground. That's undoubtedly this Grand Theatre in the distance. It's possible to see from this photo that the name is painted on the wall of the auditorium, not on the fly tower (as it appears it might be in this photo from the 1920s, by which time the name had been changed to Teatro Mexico.) That means that the Grand must have extended through the block most of the way to Los Angeles Street, just like the Hippodrome and the Burbank.

What's the going rate for a room at the Melrose these days? I need a good flophouse when I'm downtown.

Did this theater ever have signage that actually said 'Childs'? Even from 1884 in advertisements it is referred to as the Grand Opera House. I don't know if the public just called it Childs because of the original builder or if it was actually named that. Here is a graphic I put together showing the positioning of the theater back from the street. I think Joe wanted to see how far back it was a long time ago on this page:

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1223701272&size=o

Somehow we've so far overlooked a fascinating photo of this theatre from the L.A. library collection. It depicts (as it is clearly captioned) the full auditorium as seen from the stage in 1898, during the period when the Grand was the Orpheum. Specifically, it is the matinee audience of Wednesday, August 9, 1898. All apparently survived the performance that afternoon, despite the obvious fact that the house was packed, even the aisles. A modern fire code enforcer would have the fantods over such a sight. My nose is practically having the fantods over the odor which I imagine must have filled the place on that August day.

Here is part of a column in the LA Times dated 5/2/36:
http://tinyurl.com/2uj6qu

Here are some ads from the LA Times in January 1906. The first is for the Grand. The second is for the Hotchkiss, which we were discussing on another page:
http://tinyurl.com/23grcd
http://tinyurl.com/24dx8e

The Hotchkiss has a CT page now, as the Capitol Theater.

Ok, thanks. Here is an ad for Clune's Grand in 1912:
http://tinyurl.com/22sbcz

Ken: "Century Vaudeville" in the top ad on that latest scan must refer to the the Gaiety Theatre, but what is the hidden name beginning with the letter "H"?

That's part of the ad text for the Century.

Is Clune's Grand Theater another aka name for this theater?

After almost three years, I've finally unearthed information about the architects who designed the Grand, and the theatre turns out to have been the first of a distinguished line indeed. It is attributable to the firm of Keysor & Morgan, the partnership formed in 1876 between Ezra F. Keysor (architect of the Pico House hotel) and the elder Octavius Morgan, who had been employed by Keysor as a draftsman since 1874. Among their works in Los Angeles were St. Vibiana's Cathedral, St. Vincent's College on 6th Street, Sister's Hospital, and the Nadeau Block.

Upon Keysor's retirement in 1877, John Walls became a partner. In 1910, under the name Morgan & Walls, the firm designed what is now known as the Arcade Theatre, which was the first Los Angeles house built for Seattle vaudeville impresario Alexander Pantages.

When Morgan's son, Octavius W. Morgan, was later made a partner, the firm became Morgan, Walls & Morgan, and designed for Oliver Morosco the Broadway house which eventually became the Globe Theatre.

After the death of the elder Morgan, Stiles O. Clements became a partner and, as Morgan, Walls & Clements, the firm went on to design such iconic Los Angeles palaces the Mayan Theatre, the Wiltern Theatre, and the Leimert Theatre. With the unfortunate exception of the Grand itself, all of these theatres still stand.

I made a typo in paragraph two of the comment immediately above where it says that Ezra Keysor retired in 1877. He retired a decade later, of course, in 1887, three years after the Grand was completed, and it was then that John Walls became a partner in the firm.

It has occurred to me that, as this firm was the first and, for quite a while, one of the busiest practices in Los Angeles, and given the fact that they designed the first big theatre in the city, and that 26 years later they designed a major vaudeville house for Pantages, they might have designed other theatres as well in the years between 1884 and 1910. Several large theatres were built during that time, and the architects of only a few have been identified.

Joe; Many thanks for your investigative work on the architects Keysor, Morgan, Walls and Clements. I have now corrected the errors that were on various page headings of theatres that each individual & firm designed.

I was lucky to stumble upon a brief biography of the elder Octavius Morgan, which reveled his connection to Keysor and to the Grand. It turns out that Morgan was quite young when he became Keysor's partner. He was born in Canterbury in 1850 (no date given, unfortunately) and studied architecture in England (no indication of exactly where) before emigrating to the United States in 1871. He was in Denver two years before moving to Los Angeles, so he must have been 23. Keysor was born in 1835, and thus quite a bit older than his new business partner.

Also, the L.A. Library's California Index claims that "Keysor" is an erroneous spelling, and his name is actually spelled "Kysor". They attribute the error to Harold Kirker's 1960 book, "California's Architectural Frontier", published by the Huntington Library, no less. However, the Keysor spelling is used in my source, "An Illustrated History of Los Angeles County, California" which was published in Chicago in 1889.

I suppose the library is most likely to be correct, and the index does have multiple references using Ezra "Kysor" and only two using Ezra "Keysor", one of which is the correction itself. Still, I've seen mistakes in the index before. And the Huntington, after all, is the Huntington. I wish the smart people would agree on these things.

After staring at the photos in the photo links above (at least the ones that still work, so I'm not counting the USC ones) for way too long, I'd say that these two are the oldest:
http://helios.library.ca.gov/soca/laci/1997-0026.jpg (this is the one dated 1890)
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics09/00014009.jpg

Note the 6-row electric (?) lines strung across the front of the unpaved street, and the derrick-like tower on top of the building to the left,

Then comes these two, which are different version of the same photo:
http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015326.jpg
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics18/00028669.jpg (this is the one that was misdated by the LAPL as 1936)

The poles out front have disappeared, and now there's a short single streetlamp in front, the awning on the right has been bisected for a small newsstand (?) with a round clock shape, probably painted on the awning, and the building to the right is painted black, and it looks like the entrance is framed with incandescent lights.

Then comes this one:
http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015327.jpg

It's now just "The Grand," the single streetlamp has been upgraded to one with multiple globes, the 10¢ sign has been added, as well as more lights around the theater and store entrances, but the building next door is still painted black.

Then comes this one:
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036862.jpg

The multi-globed streetlights are still there, but the building to the right is no longer black, and has a big "Money to Loan" sign in front with a pointing finger logo. The building to the left now has a squared shape on top instead of its old rounded shape

Then these three are versions of the same photo:
http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015325.jpg
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036853.jpg
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045572.jpg (this is the one the LAPL dated 1/31/33)

The building to the right has been "modernized," stripping off its Victorian ornamentation while keeping its pointing finger logo with its address (?) of 118, and the short multi-globed streetlight is still out front.

Then comes this one, that it says above is from the late 1920s, so the supposedly "1933" one would predate that by a few years.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics09/00014195.jpg

Notice that the short, multi-globed streetlamps have now been replaced by tall ones with two globes on that block, but not on the adjacent corner on the left, and the marquee has been completely sheared off to make room for a large blade sign.

Then comes this one, of course.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics34/00036854.jpg

The pawn shop next door is still the same and looks to be doing great business, but the Grand's brand new blade sign is now gone again, leaving a makeshift marquee. And so goes the Grand.

So from that, I'd wildly guess the "1933" photo is actually 1923, and the "1936" one is closer to the turn of the century.

Great detective work!

Great detective work!

WDL: If you are still interested, I have some information on the Spanish-language theatres in LA from the 20s and 30s. I'm writing a book on the subject. Feel free to contact me: desiree_garcia@alum.wellesley.edu

Hello all. According to the Pacific Coast Shoman (an exhibitor's trade paper in the 1930s), the Grand Theatre became the Teatro Mexico at some point in the 1930s. In 1934-1935, it changed hands from the Gore Bros. to Frank Fouce who demolished it in order to draw business to his other Spanish-language theatres.