FanaticalAboutOdeon-As I understand it, non-IMAX films in IMAX digital cinemas don’t have the same projection quality as IMAX releases, e.g. only one of the two projectors is used. Also, the picture hasn’t been gone through IMAX’s DMR processing (nor has the sound been remixed for IMAX’s sound system, and, AFAIK, the Empire IMAX doesn’t have a rear array for non-IMAX films.)
The on-screen announcement is, therefore, absolutely necessary.
I agree that sitting in the front row could be overwhelming, but I’ve found middle seats absolutely fine. As mentioned in a previous post, the screen width to auditorium depth ratio is about the same as found in a “classic,” purpose-built IMAX venue. In some ways I preferred the smaller Empire 1 screen, which somehow “felt” bigger than these monster screens, but the central seats in the IMAX auditorium are right in the sweet spot.
Regarding the side seats, sitting on the far sides of the front rows would be a poor experience… but those seats are currently not even in use for IMAX presentations, with the seating down to less than 500 seats for IMAX 3D. However, in my view, the width of the auditorium is an advantage—making it feel spacious, and prevents a problem I find with “wall-to-wall” screens in rectangular auditoria, where I am constantly aware of the side walls framing the screen.
The new LED lighting lacks the diffuse properties of cold cathode lights, and the new walls are black. The effect is more one of slightly inconsistent “bands” of light rather than smooth “bands” with the walls being “washed” in colour. But, the flipside is that Empire did not have to reinstate anything, and it seems much attention to detail has been lavished on this project—I notice the steps up to the aisles have been moved and rebuilt… in exactly the same style!
The lack of tabs is a shame but in some ways the large screen speaks for itself, being most impressive when one first enters the auditorium and is presented with it and the very wide, colour-lit space. I have found the standard of presentation to be very good, with pre-show music, lighting fades etc. all well-timed, IMAX trailers, and so on. Much of the magic is still there!
On the other hand, the IMPACT screen desperately needs tabs and masking, and some other extra touches.
I took someone to see “Lucy” at the Empire IMAX and their jaw dropped on entering, not expecting the screen to be that big and afterwards they said that they had never seen or heard anything like it.
Visited Screen 5 today for a preview screening, a typical turn of the millennium VUE (or rather Warner Village.)
There are a couple of rows of (newer?) “VIP seats” in the middle of the auditorium, but the rest of the seating is tired, dirty, with tears in the upholstery. The sidewall stretch fabric is sagging in places, and there is even a section of carpet held down with gaffer tape! Considering the tickets for standard seats can be almost £11, this is quite unacceptable.
The screen is wall-to-wall and “letterboxed” for scope format; the lack of masking did not work well due to the high black level of the projection. The projection and sound quality were mediocre albeit in all fairness it was a preview screening of a “work in progress.” Rear array speakers are Martin Audio.
The IMAX and IMPACT screens are featured in the current issue of Cinema Technology Magazine. Not much new information, but some lovely pictures, and equipment is listed for the IMPACT screen.
Apparently the dividing wall weighs 90 (!) tons, is 1 metre thick, is built using 8 layers of plasterboard, and is hung from new girders in the ceiling.
The IMPACT screen has 87 JBL speakers including 5 stage speakers and 16 18" subwoofers (same as Screen 1) and some 58 surround speakers… plus 8 more 18" subwoofers in the side-walls! The Barco projectors have been moved over from Screen 1.
Unfortunately, not much info on the IMAX system other than the usual vague corporate stuff, except that all 750 seats will be available for 3D screenings once the laser projection system is installed.
Both screens are fitted with the fully-sprung “Empire” seat from Seating Concepts.
The article ends by saying that “the Empire Leicester Square has two new first class auditoria capable of producing the finest in picture and sound. Both have an undeniable ‘wow’ factor and won’t disappoint anyone.” It goes on to say that “for those of us who knew the unforgettable Empire One in its starlight glory days, [the new screens] just can’t recreate that special magical environment that went before.”
A sentiment, I think, that we could all agree with.
Have not seen a film there in some time and last time I did was not impressed by what I can only describe as an outdated and run-down multiplex. It isn’t closed for good though, it’s being refurbished into a Picturehouse and it will have its own entrance.
d8rren—Thanks for the reply. Can’t say I’d noticed that the screen was smaller but I do sit towards the front and 3D films are impressive.
On my last visit to Empire LS (a Wednesday evening) the foyer was quite busy. I’d imagine they get a reasonable number of customers in for their mini-screens. (Anyone seeing the ‘IMAX’ sign would be in for a shock, although I gather that those mini-screens are actually pretty good.)
London has now many modern local cinemas with large screens, but still, the BFI IMAX does well so some people are willing to make the trip and pay extra for something special.
Can’t work out the point of the 70mm ‘Interstellar’ screenings at the OLS when there are two other venues in London with 15/70 prints, but I suppose it’s not something to complain about!
This place was an absolute flea-pit; I last visited in 1991, and the person accompanying me, not well versed in technical aspects of film presentation, complained that the “sound is quieter than my TV”! Admittedly, it does look more attractive in old photos.
The developer had promised a small replacement cinema in the former foyer building, to be built in Phase II, with the apartments built in Phase I. However, after Phase I had been built, the developer applied for permission for use as a gym, which has now opened.
As for the courtyard “mosaic” artwork intended to keep the memory of moviegoing… I fail to see the point.
For me, rule number 1 of a cinema is that it should be indoors and has enough elements to create a good sense of expectation. Rule number 2, it should have excellent HVAC.
(Rule number 0, of course, is that it should have the ability to show films!)
I think that’s as polite as I can be about the development.
Planning permission, of course, is valid for some time so nothing may happen for a while, and this is assuming that the roof replacement means concurrent changes to the auditorium. Presumably it would make sense for the OWE replacement to (finally) go ahead first…
It may be extraordinary that Leicester Square does still has any “original” cinema buildings left—from what I gather from looking through archived material, the Empire was sold to Mecca with the original scheme being to knock it down and build an office block/dance hall. Only later articles refer to the reconstruction scheme into the famous 1330 seat cinema (and dance hall underneath.)
There was also a scheme to redevelop the block of buildings next to the Odeon Leicester Square (1983) into various uses cinemas… perhaps someone has more details on this and what the effect would have been on the OLS?
Summary of the 1983 proposals: http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=ZZZZW3RPXC669
This company appears to have been the acoustic consultants for the Screen 1 conversion. To quote from the linked page: “Cole Jarman are proud to have worked on this monumental scheme to transform the historic but ageing Screen 1 into two new auditoria… We provided design advice… [including] the technically challenging wall which separates the two new screens.”
On that page are also some more photos, or rather 3D renderings. The IMPACT screen is shown as having an architectural lighting scheme with strips of red lights on the sidewalls… which I did not see nor is shown in any photos so far…
If Odeon are going to “reconfigure” then perhaps this is a possible conversion: Move the screen to a position just ahead of the circle, remove the first few rows of the circle and create a new flat ceiling section in the screen area. This would then allow a screen size of say 70ft. x 30ft. The existing circle would thus be extended slightly forward, but this could be built as a “mezzanine”-type floor on columns if necessary.
Most of the stalls seating area would be “eliminated” (or some very small screens could be jammed in under the circle!) with the stage and void to the back wall used to form a second main screen.
Correction to previous post: The original THX guidlines were, AFAIK, for sound from adjacent auditoriums to be audible a maximum of 1% of the time.
(See p7 of http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL%20-%20Cinema%20Sound%20System%20Manual%20(Original,%201990).pdf )
Of course this requirement is easier to meet with optical sound. Despite this, Dave Pring’s figure of 5 or 6 times for up to 30 seconds gives a maximum value of 1.6% of the time… which suggests good soundproofing.
Odeon have applied for planning approval of a new pitched roof to replace the existing asbestos one. That being the case, presumably the auditorium block isn’t due to be demolished any time soon!
Shame that most of the remainder of the Trocadero is being reconstructed into yet another hotel, there’s more than enough space for all sorts of more interesting uses. I suppose £150/night rooms are more profitable than cinemas (or run-down arcades!) May as well remove entertainment from the heart of the West End and build hotels instead. :–(
The hotel works seem to be well underway and sealed off from public access, AFAIK the area occupied by the former IMAX screen has been completely gutted out.
It was a 15/70 IMAX but the (now obsolete) PSE headsets with active shutter LCDs for 3D were of course digital and used an infra-red wireless system. The sound came from 2 additional digital tracks which were pre-recorded with the binaural processing. (The IMAX screen/rear speakers were used as well.)
It closed yesterday for the conversion to a ‘Picturehouse’, for reopening next year. I have uploaded pictures of the lobby one day before closing and the boarding opposite the entrance for the hotel conversion work. Not the most welcoming approach!
Reading through the above linked planning application, the existing old Trocadero friezes are to be kept but with improved lighting.
FanaticalAboutOdeon-As I understand it, non-IMAX films in IMAX digital cinemas don’t have the same projection quality as IMAX releases, e.g. only one of the two projectors is used. Also, the picture hasn’t been gone through IMAX’s DMR processing (nor has the sound been remixed for IMAX’s sound system, and, AFAIK, the Empire IMAX doesn’t have a rear array for non-IMAX films.)
The on-screen announcement is, therefore, absolutely necessary.
I agree that sitting in the front row could be overwhelming, but I’ve found middle seats absolutely fine. As mentioned in a previous post, the screen width to auditorium depth ratio is about the same as found in a “classic,” purpose-built IMAX venue. In some ways I preferred the smaller Empire 1 screen, which somehow “felt” bigger than these monster screens, but the central seats in the IMAX auditorium are right in the sweet spot.
Regarding the side seats, sitting on the far sides of the front rows would be a poor experience… but those seats are currently not even in use for IMAX presentations, with the seating down to less than 500 seats for IMAX 3D. However, in my view, the width of the auditorium is an advantage—making it feel spacious, and prevents a problem I find with “wall-to-wall” screens in rectangular auditoria, where I am constantly aware of the side walls framing the screen.
The new LED lighting lacks the diffuse properties of cold cathode lights, and the new walls are black. The effect is more one of slightly inconsistent “bands” of light rather than smooth “bands” with the walls being “washed” in colour. But, the flipside is that Empire did not have to reinstate anything, and it seems much attention to detail has been lavished on this project—I notice the steps up to the aisles have been moved and rebuilt… in exactly the same style!
The lack of tabs is a shame but in some ways the large screen speaks for itself, being most impressive when one first enters the auditorium and is presented with it and the very wide, colour-lit space. I have found the standard of presentation to be very good, with pre-show music, lighting fades etc. all well-timed, IMAX trailers, and so on. Much of the magic is still there!
On the other hand, the IMPACT screen desperately needs tabs and masking, and some other extra touches.
I took someone to see “Lucy” at the Empire IMAX and their jaw dropped on entering, not expecting the screen to be that big and afterwards they said that they had never seen or heard anything like it.
Visited Screen 5 today for a preview screening, a typical turn of the millennium VUE (or rather Warner Village.)
There are a couple of rows of (newer?) “VIP seats” in the middle of the auditorium, but the rest of the seating is tired, dirty, with tears in the upholstery. The sidewall stretch fabric is sagging in places, and there is even a section of carpet held down with gaffer tape! Considering the tickets for standard seats can be almost £11, this is quite unacceptable.
The screen is wall-to-wall and “letterboxed” for scope format; the lack of masking did not work well due to the high black level of the projection. The projection and sound quality were mediocre albeit in all fairness it was a preview screening of a “work in progress.” Rear array speakers are Martin Audio.
The IMAX and IMPACT screens are featured in the current issue of Cinema Technology Magazine. Not much new information, but some lovely pictures, and equipment is listed for the IMPACT screen.
Apparently the dividing wall weighs 90 (!) tons, is 1 metre thick, is built using 8 layers of plasterboard, and is hung from new girders in the ceiling.
The IMPACT screen has 87 JBL speakers including 5 stage speakers and 16 18" subwoofers (same as Screen 1) and some 58 surround speakers… plus 8 more 18" subwoofers in the side-walls! The Barco projectors have been moved over from Screen 1.
Unfortunately, not much info on the IMAX system other than the usual vague corporate stuff, except that all 750 seats will be available for 3D screenings once the laser projection system is installed.
Both screens are fitted with the fully-sprung “Empire” seat from Seating Concepts.
The article ends by saying that “the Empire Leicester Square has two new first class auditoria capable of producing the finest in picture and sound. Both have an undeniable ‘wow’ factor and won’t disappoint anyone.” It goes on to say that “for those of us who knew the unforgettable Empire One in its starlight glory days, [the new screens] just can’t recreate that special magical environment that went before.”
A sentiment, I think, that we could all agree with.
Have not seen a film there in some time and last time I did was not impressed by what I can only describe as an outdated and run-down multiplex. It isn’t closed for good though, it’s being refurbished into a Picturehouse and it will have its own entrance.
Now that’s the sort of thing I expect to see… not peeling paint! :–(
Empire have confirmed on their Facebook page that they are not getting “The Hobbit” although they will be “involved with the premiere.”
Wall covering manufacturer project page, with photos of auditoria:
http://www.eomac.com/cinema-case-studies/vue-westfield-london-uk/#content-wrapper
Sound isolation case study blurb:
http://www.farrat.com/downloads/cscinemawhitecityr1-105347.pdf
d8rren—Thanks for the reply. Can’t say I’d noticed that the screen was smaller but I do sit towards the front and 3D films are impressive.
On my last visit to Empire LS (a Wednesday evening) the foyer was quite busy. I’d imagine they get a reasonable number of customers in for their mini-screens. (Anyone seeing the ‘IMAX’ sign would be in for a shock, although I gather that those mini-screens are actually pretty good.)
London has now many modern local cinemas with large screens, but still, the BFI IMAX does well so some people are willing to make the trip and pay extra for something special.
Can’t work out the point of the 70mm ‘Interstellar’ screenings at the OLS when there are two other venues in London with 15/70 prints, but I suppose it’s not something to complain about!
Maybe the rumours are quite unfounded…
D8rren, any idea how the Empire LS is doing? How big is the smaller screen used for 3D screenings in the OLS?
This place was an absolute flea-pit; I last visited in 1991, and the person accompanying me, not well versed in technical aspects of film presentation, complained that the “sound is quieter than my TV”! Admittedly, it does look more attractive in old photos.
The developer had promised a small replacement cinema in the former foyer building, to be built in Phase II, with the apartments built in Phase I. However, after Phase I had been built, the developer applied for permission for use as a gym, which has now opened.
As for the courtyard “mosaic” artwork intended to keep the memory of moviegoing… I fail to see the point.
For me, rule number 1 of a cinema is that it should be indoors and has enough elements to create a good sense of expectation. Rule number 2, it should have excellent HVAC.
(Rule number 0, of course, is that it should have the ability to show films!)
I think that’s as polite as I can be about the development.
Planning permission, of course, is valid for some time so nothing may happen for a while, and this is assuming that the roof replacement means concurrent changes to the auditorium. Presumably it would make sense for the OWE replacement to (finally) go ahead first…
It may be extraordinary that Leicester Square does still has any “original” cinema buildings left—from what I gather from looking through archived material, the Empire was sold to Mecca with the original scheme being to knock it down and build an office block/dance hall. Only later articles refer to the reconstruction scheme into the famous 1330 seat cinema (and dance hall underneath.)
There was also a scheme to redevelop the block of buildings next to the Odeon Leicester Square (1983) into various uses cinemas… perhaps someone has more details on this and what the effect would have been on the OLS?
Summary of the 1983 proposals: http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=ZZZZW3RPXC669
The planning application for the replacement roof has been approved.
This company appears to have been the acoustic consultants for the Screen 1 conversion. To quote from the linked page: “Cole Jarman are proud to have worked on this monumental scheme to transform the historic but ageing Screen 1 into two new auditoria… We provided design advice… [including] the technically challenging wall which separates the two new screens.”
On that page are also some more photos, or rather 3D renderings. The IMPACT screen is shown as having an architectural lighting scheme with strips of red lights on the sidewalls… which I did not see nor is shown in any photos so far…
That does sound good, perhaps the hotel conversion will finally put paid to the Trocadero being no-man’s land as it has been for a decade…!
“Behind the Scenes” article on the Empire IMAX installation, sadly lacking in detail but a nice hi-res fisheye shot from the rear of the auditorium:
Behind the Scenes at Empire’s Leicester Square IMAX
If Odeon are going to “reconfigure” then perhaps this is a possible conversion: Move the screen to a position just ahead of the circle, remove the first few rows of the circle and create a new flat ceiling section in the screen area. This would then allow a screen size of say 70ft. x 30ft. The existing circle would thus be extended slightly forward, but this could be built as a “mezzanine”-type floor on columns if necessary.
Most of the stalls seating area would be “eliminated” (or some very small screens could be jammed in under the circle!) with the stage and void to the back wall used to form a second main screen.
Correction to previous post: The original THX guidlines were, AFAIK, for sound from adjacent auditoriums to be audible a maximum of 1% of the time.
(See p7 of http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL%20-%20Cinema%20Sound%20System%20Manual%20(Original,%201990).pdf )
Of course this requirement is easier to meet with optical sound. Despite this, Dave Pring’s figure of 5 or 6 times for up to 30 seconds gives a maximum value of 1.6% of the time… which suggests good soundproofing.
Wurlitzer in the Empire Leicester Square in 1933!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydYC-QPniX4
Discovery Channel Documentary on the Chinese Theatre (uploaded by TCL):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GlTuvqqxxo
Odeon have applied for planning approval of a new pitched roof to replace the existing asbestos one. That being the case, presumably the auditorium block isn’t due to be demolished any time soon!
http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=N9FJJERPJ0Q00
Shame that most of the remainder of the Trocadero is being reconstructed into yet another hotel, there’s more than enough space for all sorts of more interesting uses. I suppose £150/night rooms are more profitable than cinemas (or run-down arcades!) May as well remove entertainment from the heart of the West End and build hotels instead. :–(
Looking worse than ever, I’ve uploaded a pic of peeling paint!
The hotel works seem to be well underway and sealed off from public access, AFAIK the area occupied by the former IMAX screen has been completely gutted out.
It was a 15/70 IMAX but the (now obsolete) PSE headsets with active shutter LCDs for 3D were of course digital and used an infra-red wireless system. The sound came from 2 additional digital tracks which were pre-recorded with the binaural processing. (The IMAX screen/rear speakers were used as well.)
It closed yesterday for the conversion to a ‘Picturehouse’, for reopening next year. I have uploaded pictures of the lobby one day before closing and the boarding opposite the entrance for the hotel conversion work. Not the most welcoming approach!
Reading through the above linked planning application, the existing old Trocadero friezes are to be kept but with improved lighting.