Paramount Theatre

BALLETTEACHER on October 23, 2006 at 4:03 pm

thank you patsy for all of your info. is there any 1 that i could talk to about maybe seeing the inside of the theater right now as is? i guess just going in would be trespassing but ive heard people say that they have done so.

Patsy on October 21, 2006 at 1:39 pm

On June 21 “allie” posted and gave his or her email address so perhaps you could contact that CT member. Also, perhaps WKBN who does report on the Paramount/Liberty from time to time.

Patsy on October 18, 2006 at 1:22 pm

ballerinalizz: The site below should take you to a video and news article about the Paramount’s hopefully bright future.

http://www.wkbn.com/news/local/4422531.html

DwarfDog on September 15, 2006 at 2:07 pm

WG

I’m not trying to firer up the debate again and you are right about the Paramount but in these types of projects there comes a point where further decay doesn’t matter…the Paramount was a mess a decade ago…eventually it just all becomes the “wallpaper” thta one neeeds to deal with….for example the Ellis Island buildings had been abandoned,not used and left open to the weather on an island in a harbor since 1954…they made smart choices of what to save and what not to save as that complex consisted of multiple buildings (12 I believe)….the building that is the current Immigration Museum was the biggest mess…also it was the most significant…so with historic adaptation it’s a matter of choices….at the Paramount, we will have to make choices

In fact, almost any building can be repaired…in the case of the Paramount, it’s sucess will land squarely on the ticketholders and programs…the building itself, as on Ellis Island, will be secondary to the purpose

The SHout Youngstown Blog is not mine….that should be credited to the son of a City Water Departmetn worker who just took a job this week in Columbus….it is a great site and I thought that you would enjoy it as I have….we definatly need more of this

I’ve checked out your site in the past…that is quite the commendable endeavor…I’d never tackle it

For the record, I’m not a native Youngstowner….I was born and raised on the east coast…that probably explains my attitude I am told

Stay in touch

DwarfDog on September 13, 2006 at 5:44 pm

Thanks….I’ll do that

Again, I enjoyed the debate

Jim is a great guy and has recieved my support….I’m a champion of the underdog as I’ve been an underdog all of my life

What is your “free Press” website address….I’d like to check it out..I promise, I’ll remain calm if I particpate on any blogs you have…

you may want to try out this website…it’s really thought provoking http://shoutyoungstown.blogspot.com/

DwarfDog on September 10, 2006 at 12:10 pm

Keep up the good work….I really did enjoy the debate….Youngstown needs a free forum

DwarfDog on September 10, 2006 at 5:51 am

What shop is that?..Pig Iron Press?…we’re supporters of that free press….the media has brought the critism upon themselves….I’m just reacting the way alot of the communty has about them

Thanks, I’ve enjoyed the debate….see you at opening night

DwarfDog on September 10, 2006 at 3:59 am

THe banks stopped lending on risky projects after the Commuter Aircraft Corporation debacle….plastic airplanes?…they didn’t do their due diligence….that group had proceeded with the banks but had no FAA approved design for their aircraft….so in the end they had no product to manufacturer….American Skyship?….mini blimps/…another pie in the sky…small wonder why the banks now flinch….can’t say I blame them….who cooked those deals up?

Regarding the funding, the project is 18 months from that point….we will notarize no such thing..you are not a judge….if you work for EDATA, you are charged to evaluate each loan based on it’s merits ….not on some axe you’re grinding on this blog….further…again, if appropriate, we will apply for whatever incentives for development which this project qualifies for and will expect fair and unbiased evaluation of the information….we will live with whatever decision is made and move forward provided the evaluation is based in unbiased review… as a taxpayer I resent the threat and will look into that at EDATA if the situation arises

Regarding support, the support needed for this project will come in the form of ticket sales from the public….I’m sure the papers will gladly take the money for the ads for the shows regardless of how they bake the news stories….who talks out of both sides of their mouth….it appears to be the media….they wouldn’t risk their own revenues

Please don’t expect to lure me out by going on one of the talk shows and expecting me to call in….as far as I’m concerned they don’t exist and I quit listening to them 25 years ago….I do my business quietly, effectivly and with dignity

The only forum I care about where my credintials are examined is with my clients….I could care less about what the local media thinks about my credentials although I’m certain they would not refute them…..my endeavors speak for themselves…they have reported them…not 100% accurately but they report them….the only people whose opinion I care about regarding my credntials are my clients and potential clients …the media members are not qualified to make that judgement and would probably misreport them….except for the Business Journal…they seem to get it right….they are reproters from the other media sources you speak of who probably had it with their past employers and their “editing” techniques and have jumped to a journal who allows them to report the news events accuratly

ANything else?

DwarfDog on September 9, 2006 at 2:44 pm

I am not a typist…nor have I ever said I could spell….I hope this blog discussion can reamin on the top layers of civility and not resort to namecalling and personal comments like in your last note…I will debate my position as long as it remains on the high road….I speak from 30 years of doing it in downtown….not bashing downtown from the suburbs based on information that is 60% correct and 40% fabricated as is reported in the media…I call it selective reporting

I choose to remain anonomous, but am VERY involved in the downtown….I have worked in downtown for thirty years and have paid hundreds of thousands in City income tax….I go downtowen everyday to work for anywhere from 8-12 hours per day…not just to ride through or go to school….never have I been the victim of any criminal activity or anything more than an occasional panhandler who are harmless and can be shooed like flies

I am exeriencing no problems and have a flourishing business in the downtown…..I have little problem with the CIC exept that thay have failed misrably in their original mission…they have devloped two major projects in downtown in the same period of time that the City Economic Development Department has built four thriving industrial parks and is looking for more brownfield to claim for yet another park….THIS group has made the TAXPAYERS OF THE MAHONING VALLEY FOOT THE BILL for the most absurd things….let’s take the Masters Block for example…100K engineering fees, 250K for asbestos abatement, 300K for demolition and 200K for paving and grading….lets see, that’s 850K and some change for a 100 car parking lot….that’s $85,000/stall….most parking decks cost $35,000/stall…that’s using the taxpayer’s money wisely….oh, did I mention that it is coincidental that the Master’s Block fell and all the money expended just in time for the opening of Power’s new Pavillion which was built on the site of the only parking they had….betcha I won’t or you won’t be able to park in the new lot …oh, and yes, I have never been in and City in America or abroad or anywhere on the planet where a parking lot creates any jobs nor increses the value of land….open land is only worth the cost of the land and is a low source of property tax…but we can have doorside parking…at $85K/car….it is an outrage what happened here….of course the local media reports it as “economic developemnt” as it sits just yards from the Vindicator building

The so called powers should be refered to as what they truly are….power brokers and special intrest groups….the US Attorney spent four years purging our government of corrupt politicians and their lackies…in my opinion, they should have gone one layer deeper

Regarding my attitude being the problem, I don’t think so….to date, I have not brought anything to their table so they could not object to someting that never happened..it is a figment of you imagination and awfully presumptuos of you to assume that it has occured…actually, the deals I have been invovled in with this group have come to fruition and are pointed to as sucesses by that group

But I did watch this group send over $24 Million in construction dollars to Cleveland, Akron and Medina on the Voinovich Center, Children Servcies Building and 7th District Court of Appeals….translated in sales tax and income revenues, this conservativly is $1 million dollars not to mention bringing in workers from their communities to harvest the profits from ours….but there are tenants in these buildings now who pay income tax…correct…in two year increments….it is my understanding that no state agency can sign a lease with anyone for longer than the two year fiscal biennium….so, if the public procurement process turns up a better deal (like the one at the formewr McGuffey Plaza), those agencies are gone…please refer to recent stories in the paper regarding the Oakhill Rennaisance Center…the County needs to buy this building to avoid getting shelled by the Owners at their current location….regarding the firefight amonsgt the Commissioners and other elected County Officials, it is obvious that someone’s elected position was helped along by the landlord of the Plaza….tisk, tisk…..sounds like business as usual is “alive and well” in County Government again…I’ve said for over twenty years that the most dangerous place in Youngstown is the Mahoning County Courthouse…it has gotten safer since the US Attorney took out the trash but it seems to be collecting again

The people of the East Side and the South side I’m sure would find you statements outrageous…please ask parishoners of St. Patricks who have been located on the South side for 90 years in the “war zone” if they worry about attending mass…ask Reverend Kenneth Simon whose 1000 plus congregation regrets building their $4 Million dollar facility in that “war Zone”…I doubt it….take a trip onto the Eastside near Lake Mckelvey….its like you’re in Millcreek Park….go tell the Public Library they have holes in their head for investing $7 million dollars in the South and East Branches….please don’t judge from an armchair in Boardman until you’ve talked to amny of the peple who have invested MILLIONS of PRIVATE monies in those areas….then make your judgement….all CIties have crime….all Cities have Drugs….all Cities have social strife…if you’re looking to avoid them, “go to Disneyland”…that’s the only place they don’t exist

Regarding the local call in shows…..these are bastion of the belly aching, brainwashed members of our community….they should get up off their asses and do something about whatever they’re bitching about….it’s like expecting to win the lottery but never buying a ticket….drivel by people who have alot to say but do nothing about what’s eating them…it’s the easiest thing one can do….children do it all of the time….it’s called a tantrum

My attitude?….I speak from only one side of my mouth….I only speak the truth as I see it….I am not afraid to confront issues head on….if that’s a bad attitude then free speech is shot in the ass…lemmings run to the sea in masses and dive in….no one knows why….I am not a lemming but a free thinking individual who says what on my mind and listen to the response to form my opinion….i don’t rely on anything else but getting amongst the issue and getting my hands dirty to learn

Regarding my projects, I do not think this is anyone’s business but mine and my clients….I don'tneed to list my credentials as I am well known and well respected in the community including the people and organizations that I am critical of….simply put, my endeavors speak for themselves….I despise self-promotion and won’t do it

I’m glad to see wee’ve made some progress on the Paramount and you now understand it is not as dismal as you first thought….the developer is looking to use the same incentives that anyone coming to the City of Youngstown would be elegibel for….no wheeling and dealing….no payola…just to benefit as many others have benefted from in their sucessfull deals….in reality this will amount to less than 1% of the funding equation for the project…..virtually all monies will come from private sources, probably from outside the area as the local banking industry seems content to make safe single family home mortgage loans and don’t have the stomach for a risky deal….that’s right, a risky deal….we are not shrounding this project as anything but having a high degree of difficulty….remember, only the truth will come from this blogger….at least we’re trying and can see the vision….or you could have another parking lot at this location….I’d take the risk as the rewards to the community would be great

Anything else?

DwarfDog on September 9, 2006 at 3:59 am

Let’s get a few things on the record

I too am a Youngstowner and not an outsider….I have been involved in the rescue of many buildings in the downtown and surrounding areas for the past 30 years….I have been the receiptient of many awards for my work with historoic structures and adaptive reuse…..I am a well repected professional and am currently involved with no less than 5 projects locally and one in the near region of this type…..I have done this many times and am perfectly capable with my own skills to determine what is salvageable and what is not….I have been in every building on the west end of town numerous times and have watched the aging of these buildings over that thirty year period….I do not base my opinions on a file cabinet of news clippings from media sources whose accuracy level in what they report is questionable….I know what I’m talking about because I’ve “walked the wal and talked the talk”….I am currenly ready to invest in one of those “decrepit” structures that reside on the West End…my biggest obsticle, as in any of these types of projects, is the preconceived notionsof individuals that they are not salvagable….education is the problem….decisions being made by people who have no techincal backround regarding these structrues is the problem….a lack of vision is the problem….our own tunnel vision as a community is the problem….marking time in our local history from “Black Monday” is the problem…we need to loose that….our wounds have healed on that….the CIty of youngstown has created four succesffuland completely full industirial parks in the last sixteen years whiah have replaced the income tax base of every one of the 6000 jobs lost on Black Monday….get off of it

The developers I refer to are the same developers that wolfgirl refer to…they are Cleveland based and have invested millions in purchasing of buildings in which they can see a vision….when investment like that is made by outsiders, I no longer consider them as outsiders but as Youngstowners….USA parking, thier New York partners and associates have demonstrated to mme that they are sinceere and have far greater vision that the average tunnel vision of our locals

THe buildings which are in decay in the west end are due to one thing only….poor stewardship…period when these builfings were turned over to the YACIC they were dry, recently occupied and in move in conditon…i was ready to move into one of them but the power brokers and special intrest groups who make up that organization had other plans….

Regarding the police staation on the site of the PAramount, obviously you know nothing about urban plannning nor does your file cabinet contain the many urban planning studies dating back to the seventies downtown which speak specifically about the PAramount and the highest and best use for that property….all of those sudies, funded by the CIty, say the same thing….the Paramount is an asset that should be redeveloped…please refer to the text in the award winning 2010 plan which says the PAamount is a significant key in the downtown portion of the 2010 plan….I’ll bet that document is not in you file cabinet

Much of the Paramount’s historic fabric was long gone before the current state of decay….it suffered a fire in the thirties and was renovated in art deco style after the fire….what you see are the remnants of the Beuax Arts interiors which remained after the fire….what you see on the floor are the renovations which occurred during the fire restoration…photos of the exteriro of the building from the sixties show the terra cotta distress not much different than you see today….it appears that decay has stbailized and is restorable…..

THe point is well taken that the theater is no “Detroit Fox”….this presents a great opportunity to constructively reuse the building and adapt it to modern day usage…..the reason that Powers and Stambaugh cannot fill their houses is that they are 1500 and 2200 seats repectivly and they were built when the populationof our community exceeded 150,000….we are half the size now but have actuall gained 5000 residents from 2004 according t the US Census figures….our community cannot support that….the Oakland Center consistantly fills their tiny theater for all of their performances….the Eleanor Beecher Flad Pavillion at Powers also fills the 600 seats they have ….concsitantly….mutliple screens and a smaller audotium will work in the Paramount

Many in the stage performance community who have recently been inside the Paramount marvel at the possibility of the Paramnount being restored….it has some things that no other venue in town has….perfect acoustics, a fly loft and ample stage rights and lefts….the thrust stage is considered a goodie which many shows require to pull off the performance….Les Misrables is just one

The shooting at the pee wee football game is unfortunate but it tells the tale of our community mindset…rather than wrestle this individual to teh ground, the 800 present chose to bury thier heads in the sand and not provide the police with information so they can pursue the fugitive….that is the true outrage and crime that occured at this event…you need to look at statistics of Gary indian or Flint Michigan if yu want allarming murder statistics….we’ve made progress from the 4o plus mnurders that occured during Mckelvey’s administration

The woes and inner power struggles of teh Youngstown Playhouse are well known and documented….once the special intrests and power brokers in that organization were removed, that organization is enjoying record crowds and record attendances…in one of the worst areas of town….your arguement of a “cult of fear” preventing people from the suburbs traveling downtown is shot right in the ass given the current sucess of the Playhouse at it’s current location….could it be the lack of vision and special intrests which comprised that Board be the reason the Playhouse never came downtown….it appaers that they really don’t need to as they are experiencing sucess in the center of the “hood”…

Regarding the “war zone” one needs to drive through to get to downtown, obviously you haven’t been downtown for years….there is no such zone….I’d get iin the car today and get up to speed

THe five year timeline is based in my thirty years of experiences with projects of this scale, magnitude and complexity….I am the indivual who will set those time lines for this project….provided community negatism doesn’t kill the project…..the money and bricks and mortar are the easiest part of a sucess story here….changing the brinwashed minds of our community is the real cahllenge…and I am sorry to say, with mindsets like those being expressed on this blog, our chore is mammoth….what are your contntions basd on….obviously innacurate journalism….“Disnyland” remember?

Anything else?

Life's Too Short on September 8, 2006 at 1:44 pm

I guess I don’t see why the Paramount is such a big deal. It was a nice house when it was built. But it is no Detroit Fox. Fighting to save it would make sense if the interior was intact. But given that the interior is largely on the floor I think that constructive reuse is a good option. The outside still looks nice. Save that and build a new structure within.

DwarfDog on September 7, 2006 at 6:08 pm

Wolfgirl
1. No firm numbers have been released by the new owner since the scope of the renovation is not yet been determined…the local media took an off the record discussion and reproted it as fact….as a result, no information is being made available to the media until those numbers are known….that is about 18 months from now…this is typical modus operandi of the local media and the gossiping populus who report by playing “Whisper Down the Lane” to ‘develope facts"…again, “you might as well go to DIsneyland”….the local media has hsot their own credibility right in their own asses
2. As recently as a month ago, I was in the theater…I’ve been in the Theater six times since last April…it is not pretty…I agree….I’ve renovated buildings in worse condition in Youngstown
3. The seats are rotted, the frames are salvagable…some seatw have been lost/stolen and are reported in the State Theater
4. Plaster restoration is a simple operation with today’s modern building material technologies….historic plaster detail restoration is much simpler than lay people people think given the latex molding materials of today and gauging plasters which can be cast much like concrete…once cast off of a latex mold they are merely “stuck’ back into place and are feather into the original detail…time consuming but not complicated
5. The steel rods are non structural and have nothing to do with the structural integrety of the builing…what has failed are the tie wires holding up the steel channels that the plaster ceiling is hung from….the channels are in tact , can be retied back to the supersturcture and the lath and plaster restored….again, not complicated but rather simple
6. I have stood on the stage…the minor pulpy feel is the saturated flooring boards…in modern stage production, other types of flooring are used….these will either be replaced as needed or a different flooring put over the stage performance area
&. Scavengers are stripping buildings nationwide of the metal piping and wiring due to the wild metals market…in a building of this age, those components would need replaced anyway to bring them up to current code standards….this type of activity is advantageous to teh projectas it saves ton’s of money as that would normally be done by high paid skilled construction trade workers…the demolition of the metal by scavengers is a benefit to the project….if only they could steal the ductwork, boilers and air handlers, the new owner would be farther ahead…it’s a benefit or lanappe' as they say in New Orleans
8. Again, the plaster facing of the basement walls are crumbling off …this is to be expected of any buiding which remains unconditioned for fifteen years…including our homes!….the remaining plaster will be esily stripped, the fluted tile painted and the area for dressing rooms, and other non pulic areas will be ready to go…they need not be finished as they are support pspaces never seen by the public

Regarding demolition being need five years ago, no structural engineer, City Official or other construction industry person shares your feelings or it would have been done in a blink and in the name of Health Safety and Welfare of the public….do you have technical data supporting this statement…if so, I would know about it and I don’t….if you do, please share it…for the sake of the Public Safety

The terra cotta facade is a textbook example of Beuax Arts Classism and was designed by the noted theater architect C.Howrad Crane…Crane designed over 400 theaters nationwide during this era…he was a competator of Thomas Lamb….Lamb was the Architect of the Palace Theater

The Palace THeater is gone..it only stod for 38 years..the reason it is gone is simple….apathy of the public, making rash judgements without proper techincal basis and as always as in Youngstown, political wheeling and dealing for personal gain of corrupt politicians and influence peddlers

Please put the Warner (Powers) Theater into perspective…the community has been chipping away and investing into that facility since it was saved in the sixties from the wrecking ball…that’s almost a fifty year renovation timeline

THe previous developers of the Paramount did not know what they were doing…Richard Blackwell used it as a centerpiece in his attempt to save Idora Park…Richard removed/dismantled the organ….the New York developers were local boys who were worried about their jobs at Macy’s and hoodwinked the Mills family into selling the theater on land contract after the death of the president ( Richrd Mills Sr.) of the company which owned the theater..they were trying to create hjobs for themselves and new nothing about real estate development much less theater restoration…the hillbilly labor they hired as “contractors' did most of the stripping you refer to…they were clowns and pikers …the fact is that the New York Developers were in arrears of the contract paymetns to the Mills family for over ten years….the Mills family forgave their obligation, sought no recourse with the New York developers provided they gave the deed back to the Mills Family…they hopped on this and avoided litigation….Mills recouped the deed and turned around and sold the building at a loss to the new owner with the confidence of this individuals ability to restore the theater…the new owner is in partnership with another Youngstown Developer who is bringing economic developmetn to the City in bucketfulls

Any other comments or questions?

THe Paramount will take five years at best….hunker down please