RKO Madison Theatre

there is a drop ceiling covering the entire retail area and you can enter in to the original theater area in what would have been the mezzeine

is the theatre intact?

The Madison Theatre was built by B.S. Moss, an affiliate of Keith-Albee, which explains how it eventually became part of the RKO Circuit. Moss originally intended to call it the Beacon, but gave in to local pressure and named it the Madison after a nearby cross-street that was itself in honor of the fourth American President. The Madison first opened on November 24, 1927, presenting Keith-Albee vaudeville with a feature movie. Eugene DeRosa, who previously designed Moss' Colony Theatre in Manhattan, was the architect, using an Italian Renaissance style with touches of Adamesque for the interior. The white marble facade on Myrtle Avenue was classical Greek. With nearly 3,000 seats, the Madison was much larger and more sumptuous than the Colony. The Grand Foyer was two stories high with a vaulted ceiling with crystal chandeliers. Its walls were colored marble with bronze borders. A white marble staircase led to the mezzanine promenade, which had a lounge area plus restrooms and other facilities. The auditorium included a huge balcony with a loge section at the front. The decorative ceiling had a deep dome at the center, hung with a three-tiered crystal chandelier. The dome had cove lighting to permit changing color effects. Rare for a neighborhood theatre, the Madison's stage facilites included a rising orchestra pit with three separate platforms for orchestra, piano and the Kimball organ. Much of the Madison's opulence was due to Moss' determination to beat the competion of the nearby Fox Ridgewood, which had been the dominant theatre in the area since 1913 (and is still operating in 2004!). Vaudeville continued until 1932, when the by then RKO Madison switched to double features that were always first-run for the Ridgewood area, which is on the Brooklyn-Queens border and draws clientele from both boroughs.

The RKO Madison Theatre seated 2760 people.

Anyone know of a place where interior shots of this or other Brooklyn theaters could be seen?

To answer Robert's question about the theater being intact or not, I don't know what remains of the beautiful theater that was the Madison. What I do remember was that after being empty for quite a while, the Madison had become a "Consumers" store. Later, it became an "Odd Lot" store. I had visited both of those stores many times. You used to be able to see the outline of the balcony on the ceiling. They put in a "fake ceiling" in the main part of the theater, so don't know what remained of the old theater as it was all covered. Some time around when it closed as a theater to when it opened as Consumers, the Madison burned, so I don't know how much of the theater survived between neglect, time, the fire, and just conversion to stores.
The exterior had survived quite nicely. Although the marquee was removed around the time of the store conversion, the marble facade on Myrtle survived quite nicely, and was even cleaned and pointed. Unfortunately, the Liberty Dept store that now occupies the theater covered half the facade with their sign. Now covered are the ornate marble window surroundings that last and were even restored some years earlier.
Also if you stand on the Wyckoff Ave station platform of the M line el, you can just vaguely make out "Madison Theatre" in a rapidly fading painted sign showing a relic from the past.

The west wall of the RKO Madison can be glimpsed to the right of the green signal tower in the following images :

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6847

Letters "RK AD THE" of the painted sign are visible.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1409

The painted sign has been blurred and newer and bolder graffiti is beginning to prevail.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2918

In this view, one el station due west on Myrtle Avenue, the theater, especially its silver-white roofline, is visible near the vanishing point.

Sorry, that third image should be :

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2198

Description given above in my previous comment still applies.

The theater was named after the nearby Madison Street but is actually one block west at Myrtle Avenue and Woodbine Street in Ridgewood, Queens, NYC, NY.

This site does not have a page for the Rivoli Theater that once stood in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn so I will mention it here.
The Rivoli Theater once stood on the south side of Myrtle Avenue between Greene Avenue and Harman Street, and just west of Knickerbocker Avenue, a busy and important shopping street. It was about a half mile almost due west of the RKO Madison Theater along Myrtle Avenue. It is adjacent to the eastbound platform of the Knickerbocker Avenue station of the Myrtle Avenue elevated line (M train). It may appear in the "shadows" at the left edge of this image :

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6608

I have the address from another site and will include it in a subsequent comment.

The last film I saw at the RKO Madison Theater was the trashy thriller "Lipstick" starring Chris Sarandon as an electronics freak rapist, Margaux Hemingway as his victim, and younger sister Mariel as his would-be younger victim who witnessed the rape of her older sister. This was in July 1976. The following month the Madison was showing a re-release of "The Exorcist" along with "The Yakuza", a film about Japanese organized crime. I also remember "Godzilla vs. Megalon" as one of the last films shown by the Madison.

If anyone can tell me the exact or approximate date the Madison closed, and stopped showing films, I would very much appreciate it. It is something I should remember, and yet I do not. Thank you all in advance.

The Madison Theatre is located at 54-30 Myrtle Ave.

Th film "Tentacles" mentioned in the opening comment by Robert R was released in 1977 so that is a clue. By late February 1978 the theater was closed, and a designated neighborhood eyesore.

My father told me that when he was a teenager, and young adult in Ridgewood, the Madison was quite the place. Many times stars of certain movies would arrive at the Madison when their movies were playing in the theater. He had seen quite a few people at the theater. Even if he didn't go to the movie, he said you could wait out front of the Madison and see the stars come out of their limo (or whaterver) and see them walk into the theater. This even lasted into the late 60's!

Thanks, Bway. That's very interesting ! My father claims to remember a singing star (Eddie Cantor, Al Jolson, or Georgie Jessel) coming out of the subway at the southeast corner of Myrtle and Wyckoff, near Optimo Cigars and McDonald's, and asking for directions to the RKO Madison. My dad remembers telling him, and getting free passes to the show as a result.

My dad also remembers seeing live Shakespeare at the Madison, and the (for its time, 1951) racially controversial film, "Pinky", introduced live on stage by Ed Sullivan, at the Madison also.

Movie stars leaving their cars and stepping into the RKO Madison, into the late '60's ? I picture Ray Milland doing this for "The Man With The X-Ray Eyes" in 1964, or Susan Oliver for "Change Of Mind" in 1969 ! Please ask your dad about this some more. Thanks in advance !

I will ask him when I see him for sure. The Madison was always his favorite theater. I know it was more popular for stars to come to premieres at the Madison in the early 60's and earlier, but it did happen in the late 60's yet every so often too. My mother and father were dating in the late 60's, and they went to one such premiere then. How sad that just a decade later the madison would be considered an "eyesore". The 60's and 70's made NY loose so many beautiful buildings (not just theaters). It's too bad some didn't make it to the 80's when people started rediscovering them. I would even have accepted (grudgingly) if the Madison had been "multiplexized" like the Ridgewood - it's certainly better than it's actual fate. Unfortunately the neighborhood around the block where the Madison is was already getting sort of grungy when I was a kid in the 70's. If it had been a bit further east on Myrtle, around where the Ridgewood theater is, it may have lasted a bit longer as a theater - enough to keep it's lights on (or off so to speak for a theater) a bit longer, at least to escape the "dismal 70's".

I agree with you. I suppose the July 13 1977 blackout, and the looting and arson that resulted, was a "low point" of the 1970's. Another would have been late Sept. / early October 1975 fiscal crisis, when NYC asked President Ford for financial assistance, Ford refused, and NYC almost went into default on its bonds.

The supermarket at the west corner of Wyckoff and Putnam that opened in the late '80's did very well, I think, because it was the only store of its size in the square mile or so, of which it is the center. Similarly, I think the RKO Madison and Ridgewood were the only movie houses in the surrounding square mile, after the Oasis stopped showing movies. Consequently, I think the Madison would have done well, had it been multiplexed.

"Star tours" became very popular in the late 1950s and 60s, especially for dud movies that needed all the help that they could get to draw crowds. The star would visit four or five key theatres per night, or sometimes during the daytime in cases like Jerry Lewis and The Three Stooges, whose fans were mostly kids. Some stars, like Joan Crawford and John Wayne, just went up on stage, said a few words, and left, signing autographs along the way. Others, like Jerry Lewis, did a whole act, with singing and clowning.

I saw "Three Stooges In Orbit" and "Mothra" on a double bill at the RKO Madison, summer of 1961, without seeing the Stooges in person.

Please give me some examples of "dud" movies from the late 1950's and '60's. Thanks in advance.

I was able to find a little bit more out about the Madison today (Warren and I were talking about it under the Rivoli theater the other day).
Anyway, I was in Ridgewood today, and was able to find some time for a walk on Myrtle Ave. I finally went into the Liberty Dept Store. I haven't been in the building since it was Odd Lot, and that must have been the late 80's. Well, the Liberty Dept Store is huge. It takes up the entire Madison's lobby area, the entire area under the balcony and more than 1/2 of the main auditorium of the Madison, probably 3/4 of it. It is exactly how I remember it from the Odd-Lot days. The old balcony stairway is still there, altough has modern stairs and railing (no sign of the Madison marble or railing). The stairway was wide open with a chain across it (man was I tempted to go up there!!!). You can clearly see the curve of the huge balcony right through the middle of the store. There is a drop ceiling under the balcony area, and in the old lobby area. You can no longer tell where the lobby ended, and the area under the balcony in the theater began. Past the balcony, the wall of the balcony (which is sheetrocked) goes up about 3 or 4 feet, and then another higher drop ceiling is the "fake ceiling" for the area of the store in the main auditorium.
They built an office or managers room in the left hand part of the theater, and that goes towards the old stage area. The door was open,and the room is sheetrocked. Then on the right hand side of the theater a huge storage room is located. That door was also open, and had a drop ceiling also, and sheetrocked walls. There is a door that goes outside from there too, presumably one of the former emergency exit doors.
The entire store is sheetrocked, and the store takes up the bulk of the former theater. If there is any part of the theater not in public view, it would be the huge stage area, and possibly a little more around the bend in the storage room that I could not see.
Aside from the totally modernized stairway (hard to imagine that it was once the Madison's ornate marble stairway), and the curvatire of the balcony, there is NOTHING visable of the old theater. All the walls in the store itself, the office, and the storage room were completely sheetrocked with drop ceilings. The store does take up most of orchestra level of the theater, as well as the entire lobby. If anything at all still exists of the Madison, it can only be the top of the walls, the top of the procenium arch, and the ceiling, and possibly the balcony area (was it one or two balconies), that's it. At least the mystery of whether Liberty Dept Store occupies the main auditorium or not is solved....now one of us has to get the management of the store to let us go up theat stairway!!!

Peter, IMHO, most of the movies of the late 1950s and early 60s were "duds." They needed all the help that they could get in the way of advertising, publicity and exploitation to draw crowds, but few did even with all that help. In 1957, for example, they included "The Wings of Eagles," "Until They Sail," "The Spirit of St. Louis," "Something of Value," "Saint Joan," "Raintree County," "Omar Khayyam," "My Man Godfrey," "Man On Fire," "Kiss Them For Me," "Jeanne Eagels," "The Helen Morgan Story," "The Girl Most Likely," "A Farewell To Arms," "The Buster Keaton Story," "Bombers B-52" and "The Barretts of Wimpole Street," just for starters.

Warren, thanks for the examples. I can check these titles out with the help of the Internet Movie Data Base. Most are beyond my movie experience. If "The Spirit of St. Louis" starred James Stewart as Charles Lindbergh, I saw that on TV about 38 years ago. Some of the late '50's and early '60's movies I saw in theaters as a kid may have been "duds" in terms of revenue and media critical opinion, but my overall recollection of moviegoing as a kid is one of having lots of fun. Examples (among many) that come to mind, that I saw at the RKO Madison as a kid are two Roger Corman thrillers, "The Premature Burial" (1962) and "The Man With The X-Ray Eyes" (1963) and the black and white WW II film, "The Train" (1965), starring Burt Lancaster.

For those present and former Ridgewood residents who wish to express their condolences and get-well wishes to Monsignor Kelly of St. Brigid Church, the address is :

St. Brigid Rectory
409 Linden Street
Brooklyn, New York 11237

My memories of the RKO Madison go back to the fifties. I remember in the late fifties they showed alot of Vincent Price movies around Halloween. They always had a "gimmick" with the movie. One movie was called The Tingler and they would place some kind of vibrator under the seats to scare you. There was another "gimmick" movie that played there called The House on Haunted Hill. This time there was a small coffin on each side of the screen with an "invisible" wire coming out of it and at a certain point in the movie, the coffin would open and a "ghost" would fly down the wire to the back of the theater. Another Vincent Price movie I saw there was House of Wax in 3D.

In the sixties I remember the Dave Clark Five appearing in person to promote their movie. I think the title was Catch Us If You Can. The year was 1965. That same year I saw the movie Harlow there too. I remember that movie because two Harlow movies were released at the same time. One starring Carrol Baker and the other starring Carol Lynley. I believe the Carrol Baker version played at the Madison. I also saw The Green Berets starring John Wayne and David Jannsen.

I saw alot of movies at the RKO Madison but those seem to stick out in my memory the most. Thanks for reading this.

Thanks for posting your RKO Madison movie memories, lostmemory. I lived in Ridgewood from 1955 to 1991 and finally sold my Ridgewood home in 1999. I'm glad to read that those William Castle-directed gimmick movies were shown at the RKO Madison. "The Tingler" was in "spine-tingling Percepto." "House On Haunted Hill" was in "bone-chilling Emergo". I saw them both at the Fall 1988 Gimmick-O-Rama at Film Forum in lower Manhattan (then 57 Watts St., now 209 W. Houston, near Varick, #5957 on this site). "Mr. Sardonicus" had a "punishment poll." The Castle film I saw at the Madison in summer 1965 was "I Saw What You Did". My dad (born 1919) saw "House Of Wax" in 3-D in its original 1951 release at the Ridgewood Theater. I saw it at Film Forum. It's good quality, color, Polaroid 3-D, not the one red lens, one blue lens, b & w, 3-D.

I saw "The Green Berets" at the RKO Madison in early August 1968.

The first film I remember seeing at the Madison was "Reptilicus" in 1961. The last film I saw there was "Lipstick" in June or July 1976. The last two films I remember playing at the Madison were "The Exorcist" and "The Yakuza" in August 1976.

Peter, I think that your father probably saw "House of Wax" at the Madison. In those days, Warner Brothers releases ran on the RKO circuit. The Ridgewood played the same programs as the Loew's circuit.

I know the Ridgewood played "House of Wax" on it's 1971 re-release.

Hi Peter.....I lived in Ridgewood from 1948 to 1977 give or take a few months. I think the release date on the House of Wax was around 1953 or 1954. It was the first big studio 3D movie. Does anyone remember the character in the movie called Igor? He was played by Charles Bronson. A bit of trivia for you younger folks. The original credits for the House of Wax movie lists Igor as being played by Charles Buchinsky who is actually Charles Bronson.
Another horror movie that played at the RKO Madison was Psycho. I don't know how I could have forgotten that one in my other post. That was one of the few movies that I've seen that actually scared me.

My father saw Psycho at the Madison. He also remembers getting scared from it. The Madison was his favorite theater to go to when he went to the movies.

Hi lostmemory ... you can check out "House Of Wax" at :

www.imdb.com

if you wish to check the release date. Yes, I know Charles Bronson was in "House Of Wax". Also Vincent Price and Phyllis Kirk. Perhaps Buchinsky was Bronson's original first name. That would be on the imdb also.

Bway and lostmemory, thanks for mentioning that "Psycho" was shown at the RKO Madison. Now, one of my favorite films, ever, and a favorite movie house I grew up with, will be forever linked in my psyche.

I recall "Psycho" being shown at the Ridgewood in its May 1969 re-release, and the Daily News referring to it as "Randforce's Ridgewood".

"Psycho" had its initial release in 1960, a time before "Premiere Showcase" type releases took over. In those days, all Paramount releases had their first neighborhood runs on the Loew's circuit. I therefore suspect that "Psycho" had its first Ridgewood run at the Ridgewood Theatre rather than the RKO Madison, but I could be wrong. The Ridgewood always played the Loew's programs, since Loew's did not have an outlet in Ridgewood. (It should be noted that "Psycho" was originally released by Paramount; Hitchcock later sold the distribution rights to Universal).

Actually, I think the older theaters are better to see horror films in, even classic ones like Psycho. Just like many horror movies are set in old Victorian homes, etc, I think viewing a movie like that in an ornate theater such as the Madison with all it's marble, plasterwork, and chandeliers would have added to the whole experience - something you can't really get in a modern theater or multiplex.

Agreed. The Madison greatly enchanced my viewing of the horror films I saw there, such as "The Premature Burial" (summer 1962)"Black Sabbath" (summer 1964),"I Saw What You Did" (summer 1965), "Die Monster Die !" (day before start of school, September 1966), "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave" (January 1969), and "Tales From The Crypt"(March 1972).

Which brings us to two Clive Barker short stories, "Sex, Death and Starshine", the ultimate haunted theater story, and "Son Of Celluloid", in which the memories, thoughts and emotions the audience presses upon the images on the screen of a revival cinema, combine with the stomach cancer of a dead escaped convict between the screen and back wall of the theater, to form a shape-shifting monster.

lostmemory, I just checked the IMDb, and it shows a release date of 1953 for "House Of Wax".

You might be correct Warren, it could have opened at the Ridgewood and not the Madison. The years will sometimes play tricks on your memory. This movie also had a gimmick to it. No one was supposed to be seated after the movie started. There were guards to enforce this rule. I think that only happened for the first day. Psycho was one of those movies that you had to see more than once to fully understand it.
The first time I saw this movie, the two scenes that scared me were the shower scene and the scene where the detective walks up the stairs and Norman appears with the knife. Psycho was loosely based on a true story. The book was written by Robert Bloch and he based it on a real serial killer in Wisconsin named Edward Gein. If you want to read more about this, go to this website http://www.crimelibrary.com/gein/geinmain.htm


I have a question that isn't related to the Madison. There was another theater in Ridgewood that is no longer around. I don't remember the name of it, I just remember where it was located. I'm trying to find what the name of it was. Is there a way to search for a theater by address or street? Thanks.

Thanks Peter. I knew House of Wax was either 1953 or 1954. Sometimes the old memory works great, sometimes I can't remember the password to get my email.

lostmemory, thanks for the link. I just looked at it, and it's alot like the first chapter in a book I have at home about the making of "Psycho", titled "The Atrocities of Ed Gein". True, Gein went way beyond Norman Bates to "Buffalo Bill" of "Silence Of The Lambs".

Other former theaters in Ridgewood : the Parthenon, at Myrtle and Wyckoff, the Oasis, on Fresh Pond Road a few blocks south of Metropolitan Avenue, the Glenwood (now the Ridgewood post office, before that, a bowling alley) at Myrtle and Decatur, the Wyckoff, at Wyckoff and Bleeker. Where was the theater in Ridgewood you are trying to remember the name of ?

I don't know about searching by address or street on this site.

lostmemory, like yourself, I find my short term memory weakening as my long term memory sharpens. A sign of aging.

Peter, I'm familiar with all of the theaters that you mentioned. This theater was located on Seneca ave and Greene ave. To be precise, the address would have been 494 Seneca ave. I know that it was closed by the mid fifties, maybe even sooner. Around 1962 the building was sold and it became a funeral home called Seneca Chapels. I grew up looking at this building everyday. The name of this theater is in my brain somewhere but it just won't come out right now.

Lostmemory, there was the "Majestic Theater" at 424 Seneca Ave, could this be the one you mean.
I could swear my father said he saw Psycho at the Madison. It may not have been when it first came out. He described the experience to me once when I had bought the DVD.

I have a listing for the Majestic Theater at 424 Seneca Avenue, at Greene Avenue. I've seen Seneca Chapels myself.

I just ran MapQuest on 424 and 494 Seneca Avenue. 424 is between Stanhope and Himrod Sts. 494 is at Greene Avenue so perhaps 424 in my listing is incorrect, and should be 494.

Peter, I'm familiar with all of the theaters that you mentioned. This one was located on Seneca Ave and Greene Ave. The address would be 494 Seneca Ave. This theater was closed in the mid fifties and might have closed before that. Around 1962 the building was sold and it became a funeral home called Seneca Chapels. I grew up looking at this building and even played under the marquee when it rained. The name of it is buried somewhere in my brain but it just won't come out right now.

Disregard that last message, it seems to have posted twice. The Majestic sounds very familiar. I'm very familiar with that area and the address can't be 424. 494 would be more like it. Is the Majestic theater listed on this site? I'm curious as to when it opened and when it closed down. Thanks Peter and Bway for your help.

Peter, I think the "424" that we both came up with might be incorrect on the Cinematour site. It's possible but highly unlikely that there were two theaters so close together on Seneca Ave on adjoining blocks, and even more of a coinincidence that they were only off by one number in the address. I have a feeling lostmemory's "lost memory" is probably going to be the Majestic. It is also possible that it had a different name in it's final years.

If I am not totally mistaken, I believe that the name of the theater that "lostmemory" is looking for is the GRANDVIEW. Oddly enough I attended a wake at the funeral home a few years ago and one of the old timers there had mentioned that it was once a movie house named the GRANDVIEW, which dated back to the silent movie era. They also showed movies outdoors (on the roof?) during the summer months.

Thanks Erwin. Could the "Grandview" be the Majestic theater with a different name? It still seems odd that there would have been two theaters there. I still think cinematour may have a typo in this listing and the "2" should be a "9".

Fellas, sorry but I jumped the gun on this one. The GRANDVIEW was at 663 Grandview Avenue, which is the current location for the Ridgewood Chapels. It does seem odd that two theaters relatively close together ended up as funeral homes.

Bway, I do not remember a theater on Seneca and Stanhope so it must be a typo like you said. Also, no matter where they may set the boundry line, Seneca ave is in Queens and not Brooklyn. Someone else also told me that it was the Grandview but that name doesn't ring a bell. It looks like this theater is not listed on this website and if we can confirm the name, we can add it to the sites listing.

I just checked the CinemaTour listing and it lists a Grandview Theater, at 659 Grandview Avenue, between Linden St. and Gates Avenue, according to MapQuest, separate and distinct from the Majestic Theater which was on Seneca Avenue.

ErwinM, my father, born 1919, remembers outdoor movies in the summer near the Colonial Theater, 1746 Broadway, at Rockaway Avenue, in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn. He says they were shown on an outside wall of the Colonial, with seating in an adjacent lot. He also remembers people watching from fire escapes outside their apartments in nearby tenements.

I'm pretty sure it's the majestic. While we are at it, we should also add the Grandview Theater. I confirmed it on the cinematreasure site, but ironically, the address numbers on that one are different too, they list it as 659! But of course a theater would take up many numbers, so it's obviously right "next door at 663. And we know it became the Ridgewood Chapels (wow, I never knew that the Chapel was a theater!), so we even have something for the comments.

I'm sorry, the link above should have been to the cinematour site for the Grandview:
http://www.cinematour.com/tour.php?db=us&id=24086

I did a search on the web and I found a Majestic theater that used to be on Fulton st in Brooklyn. All it says is, it opened for business in 1904. Would there be two theaters listed for Brooklyn with the same name? The more I read, the more confused I get.

Many theaters have the same name. The Majestic on Fulton Street later became, I think, part of the Brooklyn Academy of Music, nearby on Lafayette Avenue near Fulton Street.

The CinemaTour listings for the former Majestic and Grandview theaters, among many others, suffer from the common Brooklyn-Queens confusion : it lists them in Brooklyn, but they are really in Queens.

Okay guys, I emailed everyone I know that grew up in Ridgewood. Some of those people have no clue, but three of them wrote back and said it was called the Majestic. I'll go along with that. It does sound familiar. Maybe one of you could enter it in the listing since I have no idea how to do that. I would still like more info on this theater if anyone has anything to add please do. Thanks for everyones help with this.

It's easy to add a theater. Just Click Here. It should have it's own space because it deserves to be talked about under it's own section, not the Madison's section. It will eventually bring more info on it, because people will not be looking for "Majestic" under the Madison Theater, so you won't get too much information under the Madison.
I would add it, but I don't know anything about it. You can leave most of the info blank if you don't know it, it'll be filled in as time goes on, but you seem to be able to do the brief description the best. Just type a sentence or two that you know. That's all you need.

Bway....Thanks for your help. I entered the Majestic. I hope that I didn't mess it up. How long does it take before you can go there and post messages?

Check this website......http://timesnewsweekly.com/Archives2004/Apr.-Jun.2004/051304/NewFiles/OURNEIGH.html

(You might have to copy and paste it.)

It seems like someone else recalls the Majestic theater being on Seneca and Greene. Read the bottom of the first paragraph. Why didn't I find that sooner!

The 1931 Film Daily Year Book gives an address for the Majestic of 424 Seneca Avenue, with a seating capacity of 600.

lostmemory, I'm glad you posted the link to that "Our Neighborhood The Way It Was" article in the May 13, 2004 Times Newsweekly (former Ridgewood Times)that mentioned the Majestic being at Seneca and Greene Avenues. I was going to mention that article to you.

That "Our Neighborhood The Way It Was" article in the May 13, 2004 Times Newsweekly is very near and dear to me and my family, because it describes much of our lives spent in Ridgewood in the past eighty or so years, particularly the mention and photograph of Father York, former pastor of St. Brigid's, whose parochial school I and my mother and many members of her family attended. I printed three copies of that article and mailed it to my three aunts and two uncles. They were very glad to receive it.

Warren...I think that someone already stated that 424 Seneca Ave would be near Stanhope St. To the best of my knowledge, there was never a movie theater at that location. I believe that book is in error and the Majestic was indeed located at 494 Seneca Ave.

Peter....I'm glad that you enjoyed that article. Someone emailed me that link when I was trying to get info on the Majestic. I wish the person that wrote that article had given an email address or a way to contact him. I would like to find out what he remembers about the Majestic.

There is still a funeral home located at 494 Seneca ave. I believe the name of it now is D'Angelo Funeral Home Inc.

If there's still a funeral home at 494 Seneca Avenue, why doesn't someone ask if the site was once a movie theatre? I would think that the owners would know. And if it was converted from a movie theatre, you should be able to tell from looking at the exterior of the building.

Warren....The first funeral home that replaced this theater was called Seneca Chapels and that opened 42 years ago. I have no idea how many times the funeral home has changed hands or names. There was nothing very distinctive about that building to begin with. It was just a red brick building with a marquee in front. Other than changing the entry doors and applying a coat of paint on the bricks, the outside looks the same as it did before. It would be great if there was a place on the web to search real estate records for Queens, but I don't think such a site exists.

If your wondering how I can be so sure that there was a movie theater on the corner of Seneca ave and Greene ave, I'll explain it to you. I grew up there. The theater was closed at the time, but it was still there. I walked past it just about everyday. The side of the building was on Greene ave. I played handball against that wall. I also played stickball on Greene ave. Home plate was even with the back of the theater. I hit the ball north towards Seneca ave. I also hit many balls onto the roof of that theater.
The marquee in the front had a drain pipe running down from it along the front of the building to drain off the rain water. As a kid, I climbed up that pipe to get on top of the marquee. Yes, I was very daring in my youth.
The building had a rear door which was sealed tight. It also had a side door on Greene ave that was locked until someone "opened" it. Although I never saw a movie playing in this theater, I was inside this theater many times. My friends and I explored this building looking for a way to gain access to the roof to retrieve the many balls we had hit up there. After all, a Spalding was around 25 cents back then and none of us were rich. One day we discovered that in the booth where the projection machine used to be was an opening in the ceiling that led to the roof. You can imagine how happy we were to discover that.
Anyway, I don't have a vivid memory of the interior because it was dark inside when I was in there. The seats were still there, but not much else was intact. Over the years that it stood vacant someone pretty much cleaned this building out. Indeed there was a theater at that location. Is it the Majestic? I've heard from enough people that also believe it is the Majestic theater and unless someone has proof that this theater has a different name, I'll continue to call it the Majestic.

The Majestic has a place where you can post messages so we can move this conversation there.

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/7895/

I came across some info about the RKO Madison while I was researching the Majestic theater and thought that I would post it here.

The land that the RKO Madison was built on was the site of a brewery called “Welz & Zerwick Brewery". The brewery site was sold in 1925 for $860,000, and the RKO Madison Theater as well as a number of stores were built on the breweries former location.

lostmemory, thanks. I've seen the Times Newsweekly "Our Neighborhood" article that mentions this.

Does anyone know if this movie played at the RKO Madison? I remember seeing it but I'm not sure which theater I saw it at. It was called "The Raven". Vincent Price, Boris Karloff, Peter Lorre and Jack Nicholon were in it. I saw it around 1963. Most of the Vincent Price movies played at the Madison so I'm thinking that this one did also. Thanks.

I don't know about "The Raven", which also starred Hazel Court nearly popping out of the top of her dress, but I did see "The Premature Burial" at the RKO Madison in the summer of 1962 with my family. My cousin Fran and I looked at each other in amazement when we heard the song "Molly Malone" in the film, having just learned it in first grade. "The Premature Burial" featured Hazel Court also.

The above two films, alomg with "House Of Usher", "Pit And Pendulum", "Ligeia" and "Masque Of The Red Death", are, in addition to being "Vincent Price" movies, loose adaptations of famous Edgar Allen Poe horror short stories, directed by Roger Corman, written for the screen by Richard Matheson, and visually beautiful to look at. 1969's "The Oblong Box" may have been one of these also, although that played at the Ridgewood, not the RKO Madison.

Other horror films I saw at the RKO Madison included "Black Sabbath" with Boris Karloff in summer 1964 (the first segment was so scary, my dad took me home before it was half over !) and "Die Monster Die !", also with Karloff, the day before I started sixth grade, in September 1966. In that one, when the Karloff character said, of the meteorite that's wrought havoc on him, his family, and his home, "I thought it was a gift from heaven !", the entire audience burst out laughing !

I remember seeing most of those Vincent Price movies that you mentioned. Thanks for reminding me that they were Roger Corman movies. The Raven wasn't really a scary movie, in fact I thought it had some funny scenes in it. Peter Lorre gets turned into a raven by Boris Karloff and can still talk while he is a raven. Vincent Price was the good sorcerer and Boris Karloff was the evil sorcerer. Hazel Court played the usual damsel in distress.

You're welcome, lostmemory. Having mentioned Roger Corman, I must say I saw his "X : The Man With The X-Ray Eyes", starring Ray Milland, at the RKO Madison in early 1964. Very scary, especially the end : "Pluck it out !" although we don't see gouged-out eyes, but the glistening black orbs we saw a bit earlier, colorized red !

I have read that the original script had the Milland character saying, "I can still see !" even after taking his own eyes out.

I also liked insult comedian Don Rickles as the carnival huckster, who employs Dr. Xavier, the Milland character, first as a psychic, then as a healer.

Oh man Peter, you saw "The Fall of the House of Usher" at the Madison!?! Wow, that must have been great! As mentioned somewhere else here above, theaters like the RKO Madison must have been great settings to see horror movies. The whole atmosphere of old ornateness is kind of the settings Hollywood always uses for them anyway. The RKO Keiths must have been another great one for horror movies, but somehow the Madison (the way I vaguely remember it), was dark, and sort of "past it's prime" and a little spooky. Of course, things like that are always spooky when you are a kid. (I assume when the RKO Keiths wasn't painted beige and lit up with flourescent lighting, it also may have been spooky - it was a bit spooky in the balcony when I snuck up there).
It's not possible, but I would love to go see "Usher" in the Madison - maybe in a timewarp..... Or let's get the RKO Keiths restored and see it there....

No, I didn;t see "Usher" at the RKO Madison, although that would have been a blast, as you've described. Please re-read carefully above, to learn what horror films I did see at the Madison.

I also saw "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave" there in January 1969, and "Tales From The Crypt" in March 1972. I did NOT see "The Exorcist" there in its summer 1976 re-release.

I was always passing, or passing near, the RKO Madison, on the way to
parochial school, high school, or college, or between my home and the Myrtle Avenue subway station, so, whatever films I did not see at the RKO Madison, I saw playing there. Examples : My Baby Is Black, Godzilla Vs. The Thing, First Men In The Moon, The Slender Thread, The Bobo, Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf ?(my parents saw it at the RKO Madison)Change Of Mind, Without A Stitch, C.C. And Company with Joe Namath, Who Slew Auntie Roo ?, The Legend Of Nigger Charlie, Sweet Sweetback's Badasss Song, etc. and many more.

Oh well, I guess I misread your other post. I think the Exorcist may be the last film to ever play at the Madison, if not THE last to play there (anyone know the final film?). Now the Exorcist is almost too much to take in in ANY theater.
I remember passing there around when they were going to close the Madison, and my father was sort of sad that it was closing, and I couldn't understand why they wanted to close it. I also walked that way all the time when my father and I used the subway, as my father always had an aversion to taking the M train to Wyckoff to take the L, we always had to walk all the way to Myrtle-Wyckoff to the L.
Anyway, I remember this so clearly, the doors were open in front, and it had the distinctive "Madison smell" coming out onto the sidewalk. I can still see the sort of dim lobby in my head from that evening.
I wish I could go back to that night and just tell them "not to hurt it!" (sort of how I wish I could go back to 1964 to tell them not to hurt Penn Station).
Of course a couple years later I remember standing in the same spot with my father peaking through the wooden barricade into the darkness of the vast interior of the semi-gutted theater, the distincitve "Madison smell" now gone forever, replaced with the smell of charred wood and construction.

I know that I saw "The Fall of the House of Usher" but I don't remember where I saw it. This movie came out before "The Raven". Another Roger Corman-Vincent Price movie I remember seeing in the early sixties was "The Pit and the Pendulum". I thought that this was one of the scariest movies that Corman made.

Yes, I do remember Ray Milland in "The Man With The X-Ray Eyes". As a kid, I thought it would be great to be able to see through things like Superman could. Ray Milland was in another Roger Corman movie prior to this one called "The Premature Burial".

Yes, lostmemory, I saw "Premature Burial" at the RKO Madison in the summer of 1962. Bway, I am sure I would recognize that "RKO Madison smell" instantly. Early April 1979 I remember peering through a peephole at night into the charred interior of the Madison, and a man next to me about my father's age saying how he remembered what a
beautiful show house the Madison had been.

Another memory that I have of the Madison theater was the organ that used to play during intermission. I don't know when they stopped doing it but in the late fifties and early sixties it was done. After the first movie ended, the lights would be turned up and the organist would play. That gave you time to go to the concession stand to get more popcorn and candy. I assume the movie reels were being changed at that time. There were days that the intermission would last too long and the kids would get rowdy. They would throw candy and whatever else was handy at the screen until the movie started. It's funny how you remember things like that.

lostmemory, I don't recall an organ being played at the RKO Madison, but it's good that you do. Thanks for mentioning it.

I was too young to remember if the time I was in there if there was an organ playing, however, I do know the RKO Madison did have an organ. I don't know at what point they stopped using it.

Nearly all large theatres (and many smaller ones) built before 1929-30 had organs. You could get a full orchestral sound from them for the accompaniment of silent movies and for intermission music.

I remember reading about the Madison's organ in the Times Newsweekly "Our Neighborhood" section, many years ago. I believe the article discussed the fate of it (where it wound up). But I don't remember where it went, nor do I remember if it was the Madison's organ. Well one of the Ridgewood-Bushwick theater's organ wound up going to some good place.
It's so hard to research this stuff too. Last night i spent an hour researching the RKO Keith's Flushing, just to find some info out about it, and even get some interior photos either current condition or past. It's so hard to find this stuff on the net. All I came up with was a poor image (small) of two guys standing on one of the Keith's marble stairways with the ornate railing missing. I would love to see interior photos of the Madison from when it was in operation. I was lucky enough to find one photo of the RKO Bushwick from the 1920's, and you can see it's final interior condition (or 10 years prior) in the movie "The Believers".
It amazes me it's so hard to see interior photos of most theaters.

I found this on the Queens Historical Society website. Is this the RKO Keith your talking about? If I come across any pictures, I'll let you know.

"RKO Keith's Theatre"
The theatre originally opened as the Keith-Albee Vaudeville Theatre on Christmas Day, 1928. Thomas Lamb was the architect, using the Mexican Baroque style. Against a blue evening sky, the effect of twinkling electric stars and projected drifting clouds evoked a romantic feeling of sitting in a Spanish garden. The entire building was once designated a city landmark. The ticket lobby and grand foyer, still landmarked, are intact and await restoration. Jack Benny, Bob Hope and other entertainers of the day played the Keith's.

Bway.....Try this link:

http://www.queenstribune.com/anniversary2003/rkokeiths.htm

When you do a search for this theater the search engine comes back with the one in Flushing and Richmond Hill.

Try this link also:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/25/nyregion/25rko.html?ex=1393131600&en=b9cfa4c8cc922761&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Thanks lostmemory! Yeah, I found those two articles last night, and read about it. I was just a little disappointed about the lack of photos.
It's true, the Richmond Hill Keiths is often mistaken for the Flushing Keith's. I believe the Flushing one is technically called, the RKO Keith and the other one is the RKO Keith Richmond Hill, but I know a lot of people confuse them.
I was hoping to see a photo of the interior auditorium of the Keith (Flushing) somewhere, with no luck. (Read all about in the RKO Keith (Flushing) section....

Bway.....Your welcome. I haven't come across any other sites for the Keith in Flushing yet. I know how difficult it is to find things on the web. Sometimes I get lucky and find things about these theaters and other times I just get frustrated. That's why this site is so great. You can bring all the info that you find and put it here so it's all in one place for everyone to read. During these searches, I sometimes come across what I call "obscure facts". Here is an example:

The RKO Keith in Richmond Hill had an organ built by Robert-Morton and Co. It was installed in 1928. The Belvedere theater had one built by Marr & Colton and it was installed in 1922. Other theater organs used during that time were made by Wurlitzer and Midmer-Losh. Some people might find this trivial and others will find it interesting. You make the decision. I just report what I find.

Well Eddie, I didn't consider the info on the theater organ's as "crap". This is the reason that I thought that it could be usefull. There are dates that the organ's were installed. If your not sure when a theater was built or opened, you could use the installation date of the organ to get an idea of when that theater was built. I found Organ info on alot of theaters in Brooklyn and Queens. Since you consider that info as "crap", I won't post anymore of it. That gives me more time to research other things. Besides, I wouldn't want to waste anyone's time reading my "crap" messages when they could be reading your informative posts about "hot chicks" and "making out in the balcony".

Eddie, Bway and lostmemory care about the organs in theaters, so you are wrong. Also, this is neither a porn site nor a men's room wall, so post here accordingly.

I don't want to upset you Eddie but I want to finish my "crap" messages about the theater organ's.

The Parthenon had a Wurlitzer organ and it was installed in 1920.

The Glenwood also had a Wurlitzer and it was installed in 1921.

The Ridgewood had/has a Moller organ installed in 1917.

There is no organ listing for the Madison theater.


I was going to put this info under the appropriate theaters but if I did that, Eddie would have more places to complain. I figured by posting it all here, I would limit his complaints to this one area.

Lostmemory, Eddie is obviously a troll with nothing better to do than talk about his balcony fantasies.
Your post is on topic and most people coming here would be happy to see those dates in the appropriate theater sections, rather than someone's personal sex fantasies in the balconies of any of those theaters.

Did the Godfather even open at the Madison? :)

I saw "The Godfather" at the RKO Madison late August 1972. The outer lobby cement surfaces were painted dark blue for the occasion. There were also rails in place for ticket holder and ticket buyer lines, although I never saw big crowds at the Madison for this film.

At the time, my father commented that the dark blue exterior paint made the Madison look like a theater in Harlem.

The "Godfather" was at the Madison. For some odd reason I did not see it at the Madison. I saw it at the Sunrise drive-in in Valley Stream.

My parents and I saw one double feature at the Sunrise drive-in in Valley Stream, in the summer of 1970 : "The Out Of Towners" and "Rosemary's Baby". The next time I saw a film there, "Star Trek IV", on the last Saturday of January 1987, it had become the 18-plex Sunrise Cinemas. The lobby was so busy, it looked like a stock exchange, and not a theater lobby.

Is there a Knickerbocker theater listed for Manhattan? I came across the following:

"THE CRINOLINE GIRL" opening at the Knickerbocker theater on March 16, 1914.

Maybe the people writing these articles get confused. Maybe they remember the name of the theater but get the location wrong.

I don't know. I don't have a complete Cinema Tour listing of Manhattan. Perhaps Bway can help.

Mistakes are certainly possible. Also, the author Washington Irving referred to New York City as "old father Knickerbocker" in his works.

I checked and there was a theater in Manhattan called the Knickerbocker theater. It was near Broadway and 38th st. The New Yankee Cafe and the Leumi Bank are on its former location.

I don't know if the Knickerbocker theater from Manhattan is on this site or not, but here is the info on it:

Abbey's Theater(NYC) - 1893 - 1500 seats - next door to Casino Theater at 1396 Broadway and 39th St.

In 1896 it was renamed the Knickerbocker Theater - demolished 1930.

Thanks, lostmemory.

Odd coincidence : there were two Casino Theaters in Brooklyn that I know of, and one in Queens.

1396 Broadway is the Brooklyn address of the RKO Bushwick Theater.

That is an odd coincidence. I guess that "Casino" was a popular name for a theater. This is what I found on the Casino in Manhattan:

"Casino Theatre(NYC) - 1882 – Southeast corner of Broadway and 39th Streets (1300 seats) - was first theatre to have shows on its roof –stood until 1930 when it and Knickerbocker gave way to expanding garment district".

It seems like both of these theaters closed around the time that "talkies" appeared.

BTW......."THE CRINOLINE GIRL" did open at the Knickerbocker theater in Manhattan.

I wonder how many other theaters closed when the "talkies" began.

My father, born late October 1919, remembers the onset of the "talkies" with the film, "Speakeasy". At about the same time, 1929 or 1930, some of the Loews' movie palaces in NYC and Jersey City were hampered by the Depression. Two decades later, it seems many smaller movie theaters were put out of business by television, and the decline of the larger movie houses, like the Madison and Ridgewood, had begun, with the post-WW II "white flight" to the suburbs.

The Knickerbocker and Casino in Manhattan were "legit" theatres, not movie houses. Their demolitions were for property re-development, and were not due to the arrival of "talkies."

Warren.....I don't know what the Knickerbocker theater in Manhattan was used for when it first opened, but the "THE CRINOLINE GIRL" was a silent movie that played there in 1914. You can verify that movie at this website:

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0216639/

Silent movies were shown at the Knickerbocker theater. I had a website that gave a list of movies that opened at that theater but I can't remember where it was. If I come across that site again, I'll post it for you.

In the early days of silent movies, "legit" houses were sometimes used to showcase them because it made them seem more important. But those bookings were usually only as "fillers" between bookings for plays. You can find a list of all the plays at the Knickerbocker at www.ibdb.com I haven't looked, but the site probably also has bookings for the Casino.

Warren....Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or me right. I'm just posting here what I find. I haven't found the sight with the movie listings for the Knickerbocker yet, but I'll keep looking.

I did find a picture of the interior of the Knickerbocker theater, originally named Abbey's Theater.

In your opinion, should this theater be considered a cinema theater or not. I don't want to spend time researching this if it was used primarily for plays.


http://www.daviscrossfield.com/abbey.htm

The Knickerbocker was definitely NOT a movie house. Please consult entries in "Lost Broadway Theatres" by Nicholas Van Hoogstraten, and "Broadway Theatres: History and Architecture" by William Morrison, both available at many libraries and being sold at major bookstore chains.

Okay, thanks. Now I can go back to researching theaters in Ridgewood and Glendale.

Eddie.....I'm a very easy going person, but your becoming a real pain in the butt. Warren can't be your friend because I don't believe that you have any friends. This site isn't a playground for pre-schoolers. If you want to post theater related messages, that's fine. If your sole purpose for coming here is to annoy people and cause trouble, then I will ask the Webmaster to ban you from this website. Your IP number can also be traced and your real identity known. Think it over and make the smart choice because I will no longer tolerate your childish nonsense.

this is funny that this theater gets this much talk i worked for rko for many years in the 80s and never ever a mention of this theater

That's because it unfortunately closed in the late 70's. Unfortunately, by the 80's it was gutted.

I know from nothing about "Fast Eddie." Could he be related to "Crazy Eddie," the dethroned king of discount chain stores?

He could be related to "Crazy Eddie" because his posts are "INSANE"!

I think that we have already figured out that the Rige theater and the Grove theater and maybe even the Wilson theater are one in the same since the Rige and Grove theaters had the same address of 474 Wilson Avenue in Bushwick. Does anyone have anymore info on this one?


Then there is the mystery of the Mozart/Knickerbocker theater to solve.

The mystery of the Mozart has been solved, but the answer is buried deep in the very long listing for the Ridgewood Theatre. The Mozart was at 1525 Myrtle Avenue and previously known as the Irving Theatre (which has a listing here).

The map for this theatre will not generate with the address given here. You need to delete the hyphen from the number and "Queens." In other words, it should be entered as 5430 Myrtle Avenue, Ridgewood, NY.

I'm not going to dig through all those messages, that's why I moved over to this section. So, the Mozart and Irving theater are one in the same and already is listed here. Since all the stories I have read about the Knickerbocker say that it was located on Myrtle "near" Knickerbocker ave, could the Knickerbocker also be the Mozart/Irving theater?

Yes, I remember us talking about the Mozart/Irving. I can't bear to go through the Ridgewood Theater section to find it though. Warren is correct, you will find all about the Mozart if you go to the Irving theater section. I don't know if it was also called the "Knickerbocker" at some point too.
I wish there was a section on this site where we could discuss these "mysteries" and general discussion without ruining a theater section. (Not that I didn't find the Ridgewood section is "ruined", I enjoyed everything in it, but at this point, it is impossible for newcomers to really even discuss the Ridgewood Theater there anymore). Oh well. It was worth it, we have gotten so much information about all these other Bishwick and Ridgewood theaters now.

I went to the Irving theater section and read the messages. I should have done that sooner. As for the Knickerbocker theater, if I had only read one person's account of it, I would say that they made a mistake or that their memory of it was wrong. I have read at least 5 stories where people refer to the Knickerbocker theater being on Myrtle near Knickerbocker. It is possible that they are confusing it with the Irving theater and that is what I'm trying to find out.

This site should allow the person that posted a message to have the ability to edit or delete a message that he/she posted. If we could do that, we could do our own "housekeeping" when our research for a particular theater was finished.

I tried sugesting this earlier, but could the Knickerbocker Theater be the Rivoli Theater? Click link to find out more about it on this site. The Rivoli Theater building is now a church, and is ight at the Knickerbocker-Myrtle El station.

Bway.....Maybe your on to something with the Rivoli. Cinematour lists the Rivoli at 1374 Myrtle Ave. Could it be that at one time it was known as the Knickerbocker theater, or could it be that people just called it the Knickerbocker when in reality it was the Rivoli.

I just checked 1374 Myrtle ave on a map and that address appears to be on Myrtle ave between Harmon and Himrod st. It also appears to be closer to Wilson ave than it is to Knickerbocker ave. Could the address given on Cinematour be incorrect?

No, I have seen the building. It is at the abandoned exit side of the Knickerbocker station, which is Wilson. There is a photo of part of the building in the photo in the link I provided in the Rivoli section of this site:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/7087/

The Rivoli was a church when I drove past a few weeks ago. The builing is hard to tell that it was a theater left remaining. The building has been painted pink.

If the Rivoli was located at Knickerbocker and Myrtle near Greene ave, then the address on Cinematour is either wrong, or there was another theater at 1374 Myrtle ave.

http://www.cinematour.com/results.php

Not Greene ave, I meant near Bleecker st. Anyway, the address for Myrtle-Knickerbocker-Bleecker would be more like 1450 Myrtle or something close to it.

Here's a link below to a photo of the theater that I posted in the Rivoli Section:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/7087/

The address is 1374 Myrtle Ave. The theater was at the Knickerbocker Ave el station, but not Knickerbocker Ave. It was near the south exit of the Knickerbokcer Ave el station as seen in the photo below. I guess that exit was for Himrod or Harmon St. Click here for photo:
http://images.nycsubway.org//i32000/img_32005.jpg

The station seen is Knickerbocker Ave, and the Rivoli Theater is to the right.

Bway.....Thanks. I'll tell you why I get confused with this theater. I read somewhere on this site that it was located on Myrtle near Knickerbocker and Greene. Then I find the address for it and when you check that address on a map, you find that address is not by Knickerbocker and Greene but further down Myrtle closer to Wilson.

Was there a Gotham Theater in Bushwick? If there was, was it a movie theater?

My Cinema Tour listing does not show a Gotham Theater in Bushwick.
Perhaps Warren can help, with his film and theater yearbooks.

I just did a search and I found a story about Mae West performing as a kid at the Gotham Theater in Bushwick around the year 1900. I guess that it wasn't a movie theater unless it was converted at a later date. I don't even know where it was other than being in Bushwick.

Yes, it would have been as a kid, in 1900, because Mae West was born August 17, 1893, according to the Internet Movie Data Base. "In Bushwick, around the year 1900" could be almost anywhere, and could have changed into almost anything, by now.

Good point. This one might be too tough, for even for us. Besides, if it wasn't a movie theater why bother.

Some who post on this site have an interest in live theaters.

In that case, since the "Fab-4" (us) are on a roll, maybe we can locate this theater.

OK, where would we begin ? For openers, it's not on this site.

I'm already searching into her career as a child. So far I found that she joined the Hal Clarendon Stock Company based at Brooklyn's Gotham Theater for four years. That theater is listed as Bushwick on some sites and as Brooklyn on others. If she appeared there for 4 years, that tells me the theater was SOMEWHERE for at least 4 years.

An ad for The Gotham in 1901 says it was at the junction of Broadway and Fulton Street. An ad from 1910 says Fulton Street & Alabama Avenue. I don't know if it ever became a movie house. It's not listed in the 1926 Film Daily Year Book, but it might have been re-named by that time. I can't check that without a more specific address.

Those two intersections are essentially the same location (Jewell Square) at about 2538 Fulton Street. Jamaica and East New York Avenues intersect there as well.

Make that 2500 Fulton Street. Apparently, Broadway and Fulton Street don't intersect anymore. Perhaps they did in 1901. Kevin Walsh has a page on his Forgotten NY site, "NYC Stubways", with a scan of an early 20th century map of that East New York - Bway Junction area.
Perhaps it's academic, as Fulton Street and Alabama Avenue still do intersect.

I saw "Psycho" at the Lowe's Gates on Broadway on a Sunday afternoon - I missed my connection with my friends and ended up sitting alone in the balcony and almost fell over when they pulled the shower curtain. I also sent many Saturdays and Sundays at the Bushwick, Madison, Ridgewood, Alhambra, Grove, Decatur theaters. The Alhambra on Knickerbocker and Halsey converted to an A&P or Bohack and my mother shopped there every week. I lived on the corner of Eldert and Central which was about equi-distant to all of the theaters. This is an interesting site. Unfortunately, I left Bushwick in 1962 and have never returned.

Thank you, bushwickbuddy, for checking in with us. Seeing "Psycho" alone in the balcony at Loew's Gates must have been awesome. Please contribute, if you will, to the pages on this site for the Loew's Gates, RKO Bushwick, RKO Madison, Ridgewood, and Decatur theaters. Please feel free to start pages here for the Alhambra and Grove Theaters. When did the Alhambra become an A & P or Bohack ?

As you may have imagined, Bushwick has changed alot since 1962. You can gain some idea by reading the pages for these theaters on this site, and clicking on the links to the images.

What is your experience of the Empire, Monroe, Colonial, and DeKalb/Casino Theaters ? How about the Luxor, on Central Avenue, between Woodbine and Madison Sts. ? The Rivoli, on Myrtle, between Knickerbocker and Wilson ?

Thanks in advance !

Peter K.

Mae West was born Mary Jane West, in 1893, on Herbert Street, in what is now Greenpoint. Her family moved to Bushwick Avenue and Euclid Avenue.

Before she appeared at the Gotham theater, she appeared at the Royal Theater, Brooklyn NY. She appeared at the Gotham theater along with Harry Houdini.

Peter - the Empire, Monroe, Colonial and DeKalb theaters were too far for me to adventure to - the Gates or the Madison were as far as I would go.

My mom would take me to the Alhambra every Saturday for the serials, and the movies - that was in the early 40's. I saw "Song of the South" there. She used to collect the plates that were given out every week. It was converted to an A&P or Bohack sometime in the early 50's.

The Grove on Wilson and Jefferson was where we went after the Alhambra closed. I saw 10 million BC there on Sep 28, 1947 - remember it well because my brother was born that day and they sent me to the movies with neighbors so I didn't know what was happening - it was a rude awakening to come home and find out I was not an only child anymore.

While I was searching for info on the Gotham theater, I came across the following:

"The first motion picture theatre in Brooklyn was a nickelodeon called the Broadway Theatre at 700 Broadway, Brooklyn NY in 1904. It was owned by Sol Brill who would later become the owner of a string of motion picture theatres and the head of an investment concern, Meserole Securities Co. Brill's obituary in the New York Times, (27 Jan. 1932, p. 21) proclaimed (Owner of the first motion picture theatre in Brooklyn). At the time of his death Sol Brill owned 15 theatres in the New York area".

Is this the same Broadway theater that is listed on this website or did I stumble across something?

This is not the same theatre as the one best known as Loew's Broadway. It was just a little nickelodeon. Sol Brill became partners for a time with William Fox, but then left to start his own company. Brill built the Oasis in Ridgewood, but later sold it along with his other theatres to Fox. All those theatres eventually landed on the Randforce circuit, but Brill started over by acquiring other theatres in Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island, mostly small, late-run houses.

Thanks for the info Warren. I'll go back to searching for the Gotham and the Royal theater's.

BTW.....Mae West was at the Royal theater before she was at the Gotham theater.

1901: "Baby Mae" wins amateur contest at Royal Theater, Brooklyn

1907: Appears in stock at Gotham Theatre, Brooklyn

lostmemory....You may have stumbled on something. The Broadway, which Loew's took over in 1915 was a far cry from what could be considered a nickelodeon. Perhaps, one was on the site, which was then razed and then the much larger Broadway was built. Does anyone know when the Broadway wa built??

Hi Erwin....The Broadway theater that is listed on this website gives an address of 912 Broadway. The one that I found had an address of 700 Broadway. I assumed that they were two different theaters. I'll see if I can find out anything more on it.

Hi lostmemory...That's it, I think I have finally lost my marbles. Sorry for the idiotic posting. I swore I rechecked the Broadway page and saw 700 Broadway and not 912. You are correct. There must have been 2 theaters with the same name and different locations. However, I would imagine that the one at 700 may have closed or agreed to a name change when the much larger one was built.

Erwin....I lost my marbles years ago. I also get confused easily so don't feel bad. When I search for these theater's, I rarely find info on the theater that I'm looking for. The most recent example is the Gotham theater. I used 7 search engines for that one and pretty much found nothing about it. What I did find was the Broadway "theater" that Sol Brill owned. I also found the man that built the Halsey theater in Brooklyn. (I already posted that in the Halsey section)
I'm never sure if the info that I find is important or not. I post it here so everyone that reads these messages can decide for themselves. My motto is like Fox News. "I report, you decide".
Sometimes I get lucky and I find info that leads to a theater that is not listed here. other times the info turns out to be worthless. That's the chance that you take when you do research on theater's that date back almost 100 years. Sometimes I might post things that look stupid to some people, but I don't intend it to look that way.

Anyway, I don't know when the Broadway theater at 912 opened. The one at 700 Broadway was probably long gone when the larger one did open.

lostmemory...Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Sometimes these articles are misleading or just plain wrong. I read that Mae West moved to Bushwick ave and Euclid ave. That would be a neat trick since the map that I'm looking at shows that Euclid ave is no where near Bushwick ave. That article should have said, she moved to Euclid ave IN Bushwick. I know that it's East NY but at the turn of the century alot of places in Brooklyn were called Bushwick.

And here is another theater that Mae West was supposed to have appeared at. Payton's Fulton Street Theater in Brooklyn. I have a feeling that the three theater's mentioned already were not far from each other.

I can't find anything usefull about the Gotham theater. I find lots of things about Mae West, but not the theater itself. When she died, there was a funeral at Forest Lawn for her, but she isn't there. From what I read, her body was shipped back to NY and she is in the mausoleum at Cypress Hills Cemetery in Brooklyn, NY. If your in the area, "Why not go up there and see her sometime".

She "lives" in Florida now? I'm happy to hear that. In her condition, the warm weather will do wonders for her.

Yes. Necrophilia is now present on this page as an alternate lifestyle. There is no longer an RKO Madison with a balcony in Ridgewood, so it will be on the upper level of the Liberty Dept. Store at 54-30 Myrtle Avenue.

Good one Peter. Now I know that he is one can short of a six pack. He takes deceased women to a theater that doesn't exist anymore. What a guy!

A remarkable two-step process :

1) (relatively easy) : Obtain the mortal remains of Mae West, and take them to 54-30 Myrtle Avenue. It's not far to get to, from Cypress Hills Cemetery (just take the B-18 bus and then walk a few blocks) although it does involve vandalism, and theft of a corpse, and would look very suspicious.

2)(the hard part) : go back in time at least twenty-seven years to when 54-30 Myrtle Avenue was still the RKO Madison Theater.

Hmmm ... grave-robbing time travelers ! What a great sci fi-horror plot line !

Grave Robbers LOL that reminds me that the original name of Plan Nine From Outer Space was Grave Robbers From Outer Space. I would love to see the lineup of theatres where that originally played.

Taking Mae West on a date today would be a smart move on Eddies part. After all, how much could she eat? Talk about a cheap date!


Seriously, I'm giving up on this Gotham theater. I find nothing on the theater, but lot's of info on Mae West which I'm really not interested in. Even the info that I find on her is sometimes incorrect. They all agree that she was born in Greenpoint. There are conflicting stories on where she moved after that. I also read something that if true, is new to me. I read that she was half African-American and she enjoyed passing herself off as white. Her father was a boxer and I'm not sure if he was African-American or the mother was. I'm sure that someone else here knows more than I do.

Hmmmm - a true lost classic : Mae West in "Inter-racial Time-travelling Grave Robbers From Outer Space" !

Seriously, can nothing be concretely proven or documented for a Gotham Theater, once located at about 2500 Fulton Street, in the Bway Junction - ENY area of Brooklyn, at the (major !) intersection of Broadway, Fulton Street, Alabama Avenue, East New York Avenue, and Jamaica Avenue, at about 1900 ?

I only read that inter-racial story on one site so I don't know how true it is. Nothing of value comes up for the Gotham theater. On one site, instead of the Gotham theater it said that she appeared at the Jamaica theater in 1911. I don't know if this is important or not but around 1900 Broadway was known as Division.

To further add to the confusion, what is now Jamaica Avenue was once known as either the Jamaica Plank Road or Fulton Street. The Richmond Hill Historical Society website has more details.

Jamaica ave was Jamaica Turnpike and before that it was Jamaica Plank Road. Just another reason why it is so difficult to find info on these old theaters.

For you Mae West fans: Her mothers name was Matilda Delker Doelger. Her father was John Patrick West AKA "Battling Jack West" a prize fighter who later became a bouncer at the Fox Folly Theater. She had a younger sister and brother named Mildred West and John Edwin West. Besides English, she spoke German, French and Jewish. She wrote plays using the pen name Jane Mast. She is entombed in the Cypress Hills Cemetery at 833 Jamaica Avenue in Brooklyn, New York.

I now know more about Mae West then I ever wanted to. I'm going back to researching theaters.

lostmemory....Just one more bit of trivia on the inimitable Mae. You mentioned above that she played the Jamaica Theater in 1911. There must have been an earlier Jamaica Theater because the one listed on this site was built in 1913. Maybe that is why it was sometimes referred to as the Skouras New Jamaica Theater. Oddly enough Mae did appear on this theater's stage in the very early 50's when she toured her revival of "Diamond Lil" on the "subway circuit".

Erwin....Thanks for pointing that out. Alot of the websites that I come across have mis-information. Incorrect dates, addresses, etc. All I wanted to do was find the Gotham theater and I end up being the president of the Mae West fan club. (just kidding)

As for Mae West being half African-American, check this site:

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/?view=usa&ci=0195105478

(scroll down to "Description")

No luck yet with the Gotham theater but let's try this one. "There was a Fox Folly Theatre located on the NW corner of Graham Ave. and Deveboise St". I don't know if thats the one that her father was a bouncer at.

In the Ridgewood theater messages, we talked about a theater called the Amphion. Not sure if its the same one or not but there was an Amphion theater listed at #437 Bedford Ave near Division ave. Haven't had a chance to map these yet.

There was only one Fox Folly. It has a listing here, possibly only as the Folly. It was already well-established when William Fox took it over...I posted the location of the Gotham yesterday, perhaps in a discussion going on at one of the other early Brooklyn theatres. It was situated at 2562 Fulton Street and had 1,085 seats, according to the 1931 Film Daily Year Book, which listed it as not yet "wired" for sound. But the following year, it turns up as the New Gotham, with a slightly different address of 2560 Fulton Street. Perhaps while being equipped for sound, it received a new entrance and other modernizations. In any case, by the time of the 1934 FDYB, it was listed as "closed" and did not appear in later volumes. The Gotham dated back to at least 1900, and apparently did not become a movie house until nearly the end of the silent era. For most of its life, it presented plays and was a home for stock companies, including the famous Blaney Players.

Warren....Thanks for the info on the Gotham theater. So, the Fox Folly on this website is the same theater that was located at Graham Ave. and Deveboise St. Then that should be the theater that Jack West was a bouncer at. How about the Amphion?

I'm not trying to change the topic that were on, but I saw this story and thought that it was interesting. Maybe you will too.

Ny theater 1910-1920

Movie-going in the city exploded during the second decade. One 1910 survey found the city's combined total of movie theaters could seat more than 150,000, precisely why civic reformers and New York clergyman were so terrified of the movies. They claimed a major concern for the city's "moral health". As attendance increased, the reformers engineered ordinances to prohibit anyone under 16 from entering a theater without a parent and banned crime depiction on the screen.

At the same time, the city was the main site for film production before movie companies began decamping for the warmth and more varied terrain of Southern California. The Biograph studios on 14th Street alone gave America both Mary Pickford and D. W. Griffith in this period.

But movies were not the only powerful agent of the new decade. This era introduced Irving Berlin, who took black musical idioms and grafted them onto American popular music, and Irene and Vernon Castle, who did the same with black dance. And it was the era of the Ziegfeld Follies, which brought humorists like Will Rogers, Fanny Brice and Eddie Cantor to audiences and scandalized polite society with scantily clad beauties whom Florenz Ziegfeld's promoted as glorifying the American girl.

Yet as the decade drew to a close, its cultural enmity softened into reconciliation, and it was, surprisingly, the movies that suggested it. In 1913, the Regent Theater, the first movie palace, was built at 116th Street and Seventh Avenue. A year later came the Strand, which seated 4,000, making it the largest motion-picture theater in the country at the time.

What these grand, new movie houses did was make movie-going respectable for the middle classes by refining the venue and elevating the show. Since Nickelodeon theaters were considered to be passe' and for the lower class something new was needed. At the classiest theaters, you could even enjoy a symphony orchestra, a ballet troupe and opera selections before the feature began. It was cultural pastiche, even kitsch, but it aptly symbolized the era: caught between a waning and an ascending culture, and struggling to find a new identity that could merge the two.

The Amphion Theatre was an old-timer. I've seen advertising for as early as 1898, but never with an address. If it later became a movie house, it might have been under another name. I will look to see if I can find anything for 437 Bedford Avenue.

I think your right about the Amphion being an old-timer. I found the following on a genealogy website.

"The Amphion Musical Society on Oct. 1880, erected it's building at what is now # 437-441 Bedford Ave. for an opera house, opened the same year under the management of C.M. WICKE. Not being a financial success, in Jan. 1888 it was taken over by KNOWLES & MORRIS and operated as a theatre. Edward KNOWLES remaining the manager until 1897".

If this is the Amphion theater that we've been looking for, it really is an old-timer.

I'm sure that's the same Amphion...Since my previous posting, I've been unable to find any movie theatre listed for that address. If the 1880 opening date is correct, that's probably why. By 1910, the Amphion was already 30 years old and perhaps not worth the expense of modernization.

Warren.....Thanks for all of your help. I don't believe that it was used as a movie theater either. This is just another theater that I can consider as "case closed".

Warren and lostmemory, with all the discussion above, perhaps it is time to start pages on this site for the Gotham and Amphion Theaters, if you haven't already done so.

In Greek mythology, Amphion was a son of Zeus and Antiope, twin of Zethus, and husband of Niobe. Together with Zethus, Amphion captured Thebes, and afterwards fortified the city with a wall which was constructed by charming the stones into place, with a lyre given to him by Hermes.

So perhaps the Amphion Theater could have used some help from the mythical hero it was named after !

And perhaps there should have been at least one porno theater named the Priapathon !

Contrary to what Eddie says about porn flicks being shown at the Amphion theater, I don't think any type of movies were shown there. Can it be entered on here anyway?

Why not ? Try it and see what feedback you get.

I don't know Peter, it's possible that Eddie could ban me from this site for life!

Eddie's the webmaster(shudder) ?

Lets try something different. Here is a question for everyone.

"What do you think a movie theater must have to be called a "Movie Theater"?

(Don't look it up in the dictionary either)

Eddie isn't the Webmaster, he couldn't spell Webmaster.

Then he couldn't budge you from this site for one second.

Good one, lostmemory !

Imagine a derelict, non-functioning movie theater, but which still has seats, and where people go, not to see movies, but to talk about the movies they saw there when the theater DID show movies !

Sort of like the RKO Madison and Ridgewood Theater pages on this site !

I'll tell you why I asked that question. Do you remember the discussion about the Kreuscher’s Arcade? I didn't believe that it was a real movie theater. I've given it alot of thought and I've come to this conclusion. All you really need is the ability to project a moving picture "movie" on a screen and charge admission to see it. A drive-in theater has no seats but it projects a movie onto a screen and charges money to view it. Maybe the Kreuscher’s Arcade is a movie theater after all. Primitive maybe but still a movie theater.

Perhaps it was like the late 19th century Victorian London "cinematograph" in the 1992 film, "Bram Stoker's Dracula".

From what I've read about the Kreuscher’s Arcade, the "movies" were actually shown in the stable. I'm not sure if the horse's were there or not. I don't even know if they had seats or you sat on a bale of hay or maybe you even sat on the horse. But it did charge admission and it showed a moving pictire so, is it a movie theater?

By your definition, it is.

The statement that Mae West's father worked as a bouncer at the Fox Folly should be approached with caution. William Fox didn't take over the Folly until around 1910, so it's very possible that West's father worked for the original owners, when it was known just as the Folly Theatre.

Peter.....If I can find an address for the Kreuscher’s Arcade I will enter it.

Warren....I'm glad that you brought that bouncer issue up. I don't think that he was a bouncer at all. The last bio that I read on Mae West said the following about her father:
"Mae's father was known as "Battling Jack West," boxing champion of Brooklyn, New York. He gave up the ring to operate a livery stable of carriages, surreys and coaches for hire. He eventually became a private detective and dabbled in real estate".

I didn't want to post anymore about Mae West and this is it for me on this subject.

lostmemory, I think Kreuscher's arcade was on the southeast corner of Myrtle Avenue and Cornelia Street, where the Rainbow Shops, vitamin store, lingerie store, and E & J Card and Gift are now.

Peter....In one of those Times Weekly articles, it listed Kreuscher's hotel as being on the corner of Cypress and Myrtle ave. From the photo I've seen of the hotel, it was actually on Myrtle with the stables being on Cypress ave. I'm going to look for that article again just to be sure.

Just came upon this site and I must say it is spectacular. I noticed your impressive research area. As a former Ridgewoodite I have a theatre not on your listing and worthy of your excellent research team. Does anyone remember the Lyric Theatre circa 1916 in Ridgewood?

RidgewoodBill.....I have never heard of a Lyric theater in Ridgewood. I did a quick search and there was a Lyric theater on Pitkin ave in Brooklyn. As a matter of fact, I don't believe the one on Pitkin ave is listed on this site. The one in Brooklyn was located at 2245 Pitkin Ave. Could you give me more info on the Lyric theater in Ridgewood.

Eddie.....Did you enter the Gotham theater using my name? If you did, please don't do that anymore. I'm capable of doing it myself. Besides, Warren has all the info for that theater, not me.

I grew up in the East NY section and there was a Lyric movie theater located on pitkin avenue which I have admitted to this web-site. I have never heard of a another Lyric theater in Ridgewood!

Another incompetent amongst us. The location of the Ridgewood Lyric theatre will be revealed shortly.

Your going to reveal the location of the Ridgewood Lyric theater? I can't wait to hear this one. I'll be in my corner waiting master!

Has anyone heard of this theater? The Montmartre theater in Brooklyn. I read that it opened around 1927 or 1928 and was located in the Fulton St. area.

lostmemory....The theater that you are looking for is listed on this site as the Momart. It was located near downtown Brooklyn on Fulton Street near Rockwell Place. It was surrounded in the immediate area by the RKO Orpheum, Majestic and Strand theaters. It opened as the Montmartre and changed at a later date for some reason to the Momart.
Perhaps there were too many letters to light up with neon ! !

Erwin......Thanks for the info. No wonder I couldn't find a listing for the Montmartre theater. The name changes that these theater's go through add just to my confusion.

I found another theater called the Montauk. It later became the Crescent theater. I read that it was located near Livingston st. Now, there is a Crescent theater listed on this site with an address of 2819 Church Avenue. Are these two different theater's?

lostmemory...Did you read the Momart page? I just transferred some info posted by Orlando a while back on the Orpheum's (Brooklyn) page
concerning the Montmartre (Momart).

Yes I did and I also added a comment there.

The Montauk theatre aka the Crescent theatre later became Minsky's Burlesque. Any cretin should have known that. Leave the research to people who have the mental capacity to handle it.

Since I'm not a "cretin", that explains why I didn't know the Crescent became Minsky's Burlesque. Since you have such a "high mental capacity" can you tell me if it changed names again and was it ever used as a movie theater? Don't think about it too hard, I don't want you to hurt yourself fearless leader.

RidgewoodBill -- Perhaps you are not familiar with our terms of use. Disagreements are fine, but if you continue to use obscene language and/or personally attack other CT users, we will ban you from this site.

Thanks,
Cinema Treasures

My problem with Ridgewood Bill isn't so much his insults or his nasty attitude towards me and other's on here. The main problem I have with him is alot of the info that he posts is just not true. I do not believe the address or seating capacity of the Ridgewood Folly that he gave is accurate. I think he knew that we couldn't prove or disprove his claims and therefore he "pulled a fast one". Also, I don't believe that there was a Lyric theater in Ridgewood as he claims. If there was, why doesn't he just post its location? Sometimes I make mistakes in my posts, but I will admit that I was in error. I don't try to cover those mistakes with lies.

Okay, enough chit-chat about Bill. Lets get back to work. Does anyone know anything about a theater called the Raub Plaza that was located near Flatbush and Fulton? Was it a movie theater?

One more for your inquiring minds, how about the Novelty Theater owned by Percy Williams. Was this a movie theater?

What boro was it in, lostmemory ?

I don't really know Peter. The article didn't mention which boro the Novelty was located in. Try Brooklyn, I like that boro.

Thanks, I like it too. I checked my Cinema Tour listing of Brooklyn, and did not see a Novelty Theater.

Yeah, I have a feeling that this is another one of those hard to find theater's. Remember...No job is too big, some are just too damn hard!

Yes, but don't they all eventually crumble (get solved) under enough effort ?

I need to do more research on this man Percy Williams. Maybe I'll find a clue as to where the theater was located. It most likely was in Brooklyn. I hope that I find the answer before I crumble.

Are you in that bad a condition, or just joking ? The latter, I hope !

Of course I'm joking. Except for all my major organ's failing, I'm in perfect health. (just kidding)

Read this about Percy Williams. Its his obit from the NY Times.

http://www.eastislip.org/Percy%20Williams%20Obit.htm

Thanks. I see the Gotham Theater is mentioned in his obit.

Since he purchased the Novelty theater, we know that it existed. Now we need to find something that says movies were shown there. Research is so simple, isn't it? Not really!

In any true science, or search for knowledge, each answer leads to ten new questions.

Is my search for knowledge the reason that I ask so many question? I just thought that I had a big mouth. I feel better now.

Good. You should. Fast Eddie and RidgewoodBill have big mouths and big egos. You don't. The only stupid question is the one that is never asked.

Since you feel that way about questions, Why is the sky blue, why can't chickens fly, or more importantly why were there two Montauk theater's and no one told me about it until now? Why am I always the last one to know these things?

The sky is blue because it is the blue wavelength of light that is most readily diffracted by either the gas molecules or the dust particles in the Earth's atmosphere, during most of the day.

Chickens can't fly because they don't need to. That's the way God made 'em.

Two Montauk theaters ... why not ? Remember the two Brooklyn Casino Theaters. Are you sure you're the last to know of the two Montauk Theaters ?

The Earth has an atmosphere? How come nobody told me that before? Oh, chickens can't fly because the bread crumbs weigh them down too much. Okay, breaktime is over. Back to my research.

Nothing on the Novelty theater but lots of articles on Percy Williams. They cover the Casino, the Montauk and the Orpheum theater's that he owned. He was also the manager of the company that ran Bergen Beach in Brooklyn. His theater's would close for three months during the summer (I assume because of the heat) and the employee's of those theater's would be given jobs at Bergen Beach. He must have been a good guy to work for.

Everything that I have found about the Novelty theater covers the time period when it was a live theater. I have found nothing to indicate that movies were ever shown at this theater so I'm not doing anymore research on it.

The Novelty was situated in Williamsburg, but I haven't been able to find a more specific address. At the NYPL, I saw a program for the stage play "Deacon Crankett" dated October 21, 1881. No address was given, but I guess that the Novelty's management assumed that patrons knew where the theatre was or they wouldn't be there.

I did not find an address for this theater either. Everything that I read about this theater listed it as Brooklyn except for one article that said Bushwick. And that doesn't mean much since Williamsburg was also called Bushwick in those days.

The 1952 double features that I posted for Keith's Flushing also apply to the Madison, as the two RKO theatres played day-and-date in those days.

While I am to young to have been inside this theatre, it must have been some place in it's day. The building on the exterior towers over everything around it. What a place.

How about the Hub theater in Brooklyn (not the Hub in the Bronx)? Was it a movie theater? Its on the organ listing and it says that a Wurlitzer organ was installed on 7/3/1925. Is this a "new" theater or one that is already listed on here under another name?

R143, please take my word for it ! The RKo Madison Theater was a beautiful showhouse in its day. I was very saddened in April 1979 to peer through a sidewalk board peephole at its charred, gutted interior, and remember how beautiful it once was, and all the enjoyable times I had had inside it. I saw only movies there, but my parents saw live shows there before I was born. What a place. You are quite right.

BTW, are you also R143 on the SubTalk and SubChat message boards ?

R143, this indeed was a beautiful place, even at it's end it might have been a little beat up but still a palace. I have so many fond memories of going to this theatre growing up and spending a whole day at double features. I have a question for everyone. A projectionist friend swears that when RKO closed this theatre an independant opened it up again for a short time. I dont recall this, but he says that RKO had removed the screen and the new one was smaller and installed half assed with cheap maskings. He recalls it only staying open another year. Is he right or is he recalling another place?

Okay guys, I'll just keep posting them until someone can identify them.

Imperial Theater.......157 Irving Ave, Brooklyn

Echo Theater.......368 Bushwick Ave, Brooklyn

What does "identify them" mean? Haven't they already been identified? Or do you want someone to prove that they actually existed?

I know that they existed because they have an address. I don't see them listed on this site. When I say "identify", I'm asking are these theater's already listed here under another name or did I discover an "unlisted" theater.

RobertR, I don't know about the independent reopening the Madison, because I still don't know the last day that the RKO Madison Theater showed movies. I feel I should know this, because I lived near it, and walked by it all the time then, but I don't know, and it bugs me. The last two films I saw there were "Taxi Driver" in May 1976 and "Lipstick" in either June or July of 1976. For those two films, the screen seemed the same size it had always been.

lostmemory : Both the Imperial and the Echo Theater are on the Cinema Tour listing that I printed out for myself last April. The cross street for the Echo is Moore St. northwest of Flushing Avenue, and northwest of the part of Bushwick Avenue that is mostly residential. To my knowledge, my family has had no experience of this theater. I asked my father if he remembered it, and he said no.

The Imperial was at Irving and DeKalb Avenues. The older of my two uncles saw the Lugosi "Dracula" there either 1931 or 1932. About a dozen years later, when he returned home from the Signal Corps in Africa during WW II, the Imperial had become a Robert Hall store, so my uncle went there to buy some needed civilian clothes.

Peter.....Thank you. I do remember the Robert Hall store, but not a theater being at that location. Since the Imperial theater did show movies, it should be on this website. I did a search on this site and there is no Imperial theater listed for any area of NY. I'm not familiar with the area where the Echo theater was located either so maybe someone else has more info on it.

Peter K.
I also have a vague memory of walking by the theatre and seeing an unusual placement of large metal coca-cola signs (or was I hallucinating) on each side of the marquee to the left of where the plexiglass panels were that held the letters. Was there an RKO logo there that they were trying cheaply to hide? I have thought about this many times because I know they were not there earlier. I know when I saw "Squirm" and "Tenticles" there it was RKO, because I still have the block ad I cut out of the Daily News.

Lostmemory, you're welcome. Maybe you or I should start pages on those theaters, and hope that others may fill in the blanks.

RobertR : Please tell me, on what dates did you see "Squirm" and "Tentacles" at the RKO Madison ? As I recall, "Squirm" came out in July 1976. I remember the ads on TV : a guy telling a girl, "It's too late ! They're dead !" and a girl in a shower looking up at a shower head clogged with night crawlers and screaming her lungs out.

As I had posted previously, I remember the RKO Madison showing a re-release of "The Exorcist", along with "The Yakuza", in August 1976.

I don't recall the large metal Coca Cola signs.

I also remember a small record store in spring 1976 at the eastern end of the RKO Madison's Myrtle Avenue facade, right where the building abutted on Woolworth's. Album covers I remember in the record store's window were : "Nice 'N Nasty", The SalSoul Orchestra, with that barely, teasingly, bare-assed dark-haired girl smirking over her shoulder, and Redd Foxx, "You Gotta Wash Your Ass". I was going to buy the Stones album "Black And Blue" there, but got it in midtown Manhattan instead. I remember debating carfare vs. a higher retail price with my mom at the time.

I would prefer to have more info on these theater's but feel free to enter any or all of them on this site. I have one more theater that I came across that I don't see listed on this site. The theater was called the Jefferson theater located at 811 Myrtle Ave in Brooklyn.

Beginning with the 1940 Film Daily Year Book, the Imperial was listed as closed. By the 1950 edition, it was no longer listed at all, nor was there a theatre by any other name for that address.

Lostmemory, the Jefferson Theater, located at 811 Myrtle Ave in Brooklyn, is also on my Cinema Tour listing for Brooklyn. The adjacent cross streets were Nostrand and Marcy Avenues. Neither I nor any members of my family, to my knowledge, have had any experience with, or memory of, this theater. I might have once glimpsed it out the window of a Myrtle Avenue el train, but do not remember doing so.

Okay guys, thanks. I have no knowledge of the Jefferson Theater either, but there was a theater at that location at some point i time. I'm doing research on other theater's and I came across those three theater's. None of them are listed on this website so I thought that I would post a message about them. It appears that there are more "missing" theater's than I thought. I'm trying not to get sidetracked with these theater's but at the same time I don't want to just ignore them. If anyone has info on them, just enter them on this site. I post the names of the theater's that I find for two main reasons:
A...Were movies actually shown at the theater?
B...Is the theater already listed on here under another name?

I don't want to enter a theater on this site and later on discover that it was a "live" theater or it is already listed here under another name. Most of you know far more about these theater's than I do and that's why I ask for your help with them.

The Jefferson closed around 1948-49, according to Film Daily Year Books. Since that was the time of the "TV revolution," I seriously doubt that it ever re-opened as a movie theatre under that or any other name. While it was still operating, the Jefferson's seating capacity was variously reported in the 400-600 range.

Starting with the 1946 Film Daily Year Book, the Echo was listed as closed. By the 1950 volume, it was not listed at all. In 1926, it was listed as the Echo, which was probably its original name. It smacks of something from the nickelodeon era.

Warren.....Thanks for the info on the Jefferson theater. I entered it on this site. Do you have a seating capacity for either the Imperial or Echo theater?

Maybe you guys already knew this, but I just discovered that there were two Imperial theater's in Brooklyn. I don't see either listed on this website. The one that I was asking about was located at 157 Irving Ave, Brooklyn. Now I see that there was also an Imperial theater located at 869 Halsey St. Does anyone have any info on this second Imperial theater?

I don't know. I will ask my dad about it. I see it on my Cinema Tour listing. Perhaps Jackie Gleason appeared there as well as at the Halsey Theater, a block away.

Perhaps Gleason named his Honeymooners character Ralph Kramden, after nearby Ralph Avenue.

Good observation, the second Imperial was very close to the Halsey theater. Time for more research.

My pleasure. Excelsior !

Has anyone found anymore info on the Echo theater or either of the Imperial theater's? Since I have a name and an address for them, I'm going to enter them on this site. I keep getting sidetracked with the Ridgewood Folly and I forgot all about these theater's.

The Ridgewood Imperial had 600 seats, while the Imperial on Halsey Street was apparently smaller, with only 438 seats, according to the 1931 Film Daily Year Book.

Thanks for the information Warren. I entered all three theater's on this site.

Just when I thought that I wouldn't find anymore theater's that aren't listed on this site, I come across this one.

Miller Theater address listed as 747 Sutter Ave, Brooklyn.

Was this a movie theater?

The Miller had 600 seats and was listed in Film Daily Year Books from 1926 through 1956. It did not appear in the 1957 volume, suggesting that it had closed by that time.

Thanks again Warren. I entered the Miller theater on this site also.

Interesting that it apparently closed in 1956, the year the adjacent IND subway took over from the BMT Fulton St. elevated. The nearest station on both lines would have been Van Siclen (at Pitkin Avenue) on both the Fulton el and the IND subway

I read about these two alleged theater's on some message board. The first one was called the Cambria Theater located in Queens. I assume that it was/is in Cambria Heights. I found an address listed for a Cambria theater as 219th St & Linden Blvd.

The next theater I read about was called the Boardwalk theater also located in Queens. On CinemaTour, an address is given for this theater as 16-18 Boardwalk. It doesn't specify Boardwalk Ave or Street or anything else. To further confuse me with this Boardwalk theater, CinemaTour also lists a Boardwalk theater in Staten Island with no address given. Does anyone have any info on these two or possibly three theater's?

The RKO Madison closed right after halloween in 77 it showed a twin bill horror flick I can't remember the names off hand

Thank you, Don Novack ! I've wanted to know that ever since I started posting on thie board ! The twin bill horror flick you mention may have been the double feature that Robert R keeps mentioning : "Squirm" and "Tentacles".

Perhaps now we will go from famine to feast on this topic, and extensive debate will now break out as to the date of the RKO Madison's "last picture show" !

It sounds reasonable to me. Horror movies around Halloween time make sense and a theater that was about to close might choose to run two low budget movies. "Tentacles" rates right up there with "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes". It seems like RobertR had the right answer all along.

Let's not forget two time Oscar winner Shelly Winters running on the beach in a house-shift waving her arms and screaming "get outta the water, get outta the water".

My memory is very vague when it comes to this movie. I do remember that the plot had something to do with a giant octopus and I think, killer whales. I'm not sure if I ever did see the octopus. I believe that this movie could be labeled as a "spaghetti horror movie".

Interesting sub-genre : "Spaghetti horror" as opposed to "Spaghetti Western". I can think of a few examples.

"Spaghetti Horror"=Low budget, poor plot, toss in a few American actors with careers that are in decline, mix it all together and you get "Tentacles". This movie makes me believe that the Madison really was about to close it's doors.

Legend has it Henry Fonda was not told this was a horror movie when he signed on to do it. He along with Winters and John Huston were giving some sort of deferred payment since the movie was made in Italy that was not taxed and therefore financially seemed appealing. I used to enjoy these silly horror films more then the chopping up gore ones today.

I just looked this movie up on the web. The cast included six Americans. John Huston, Shelley Winters, Bo Hopkins, Claude Akins, Alan Boyd and Henry Fonda. The director was Ovidio G. Assoniates (aka Oliver Hellman) who also made box office hits such as "Beyond the Door (1974)", "The Visitor (1979) and Beyond the Door III (1989)". I can't seem to find a "Beyond the Door II" listed. I don't blame the American actors for taking the money and running all the way to the bank. Actually, Henry Fonda was in a "spaghetti western", but I can't think of the name of it right now.

I found the "Spaghetti Western" that Henry Fonda was in. Actually I found two. One was called "Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)" directed by Sergio Leone and co-starring Charles Bronson. The other was called "My Name Is Nobody (1974)" directed by Tonino Valerii and co-starred Terence Hill. I guess that when you need work, you'll take almost anything that comes along.

"Beyond The Door" was released in 1975. I saw it the summer of that year in a theater in Manhattan. I think it was also playing at the Ridgewood Theater then.

I sometimes eat lunch at a restaurant called "Spaghetti Western" on Reade St. near Bway near where I work in lower Manhattan. It used to
be Joe Maxwell's Bar, the bar for the old Fordham U. which once stood at 290 Bway. My best friend lived there as a kid until he was seven. His dad was the superintendent of the old Fordham U.

Here's a current view of the Madison Theatre taken today.

Click Here for Link

The Madison Theatre is now the Liberty Dept Store as many of you know. The Liberty Dept Store takes up most of the orchestra level and inner and outer lobbies of the old RKO Madison Theatre.

Hi! I've just discovered Cinematreasures and I'm lost in my youth.
I grow up on Knickerbocker ave. in the 50's & 60's. The Madison was the teater of choice for me and all my friends. The Ridgewood showed more adult films and it was the Madison that had the Saturday Matanee's with all of the great horror movies of the time. The "Bad" part of the Madison from a kids point of view was that we always had to sit on the right side of the theater with these matrons watching over us -
The store to the right of the theater was a Hardee Shoe Store when I was in High School and my best friend Billy used to work in that store - he would trade off shoes for movie tickets with the kids who worked in the theater - I don't know how the deal worked except to say I saw a lot of free movies. Oh! The criminality of youth.

I wish the Madison had been converted to a church like other theater's. The Madison was the "crown jewel" of Ridgewood theater's and it's been reduced to a "department" bargain store. It's kind of sad, isn"t it.

Yes, it is sad, but not as much as if it had been totally demolished.
The Myrtle Avenue facade still exists, has been cleaned, and is still mostly visible. "RKO MADISON THEATRE" is still faintly visible on the front western wall, from the Wyckoff Avenue el platform. Unfortunately, it's gradually fading, and becoming obscured by new, fresh, bold, graffiti.

Yes, the RKO Madison would have been great as a church. Grover Cleveland High School had its graduation ceremony there in 1972, among probably many other years.

Some more memories of The Madison - as I said earerlier we (kids) were stuck on the main floor on the right side - the balcony was the smoking section and "OFF LIMITS" to kids - but fortunatly for us - the bathrooms were on the second floor - so we would go and see the movies (Usually two movies, a short and "coming attractions" and sometime a newsreel) then go to the bathroom and then sneak into the balconey to see the movies from a whole new perspective - of course we would sit real low in the seats so no one would notice us (lol) and be on our best behavior so as not to get thrown out - but if we did get "pinched" and kicked out - it was OK since we had seen the movies already anyway.

I remember those bathrooms. The boy's / men's room looked out over Myrtle Avenue. The window at its end was the westernmost one in the second floor of the facade.

I remember being in the balcony summer 1968 with my cousin watching "The Odd Couple" and this vague feeling we weren't supposed to be there, because we were kids.

I vaguely remember matrons and a children's section.

The first films I remember seeing at the Madison were monster / sci fi flicks : "King Kong vs. Godzilla", "Three Stooges In Orbit", "Mothra", "Reptilicus" and "Journey To The Seventh Planet", about 1961 and 1962.

Pete - we must have been there together - I rember seeing all of those movies.
I also remember ALL of the Vicent Price movies. The Madison had the skelatin come out of the screen at the end of "House On Haunted Hill" and had the seats "wired" for the "Tingler" - I rmember scores of props in the lobby - I don't remember the movie but they had this electric chair set up which scared the hell out of me.
The first time I had to wait in line to see a movie was at the Madison. I remember it was cold (October or Novemember I'd guess) it was a Saturday morning and the "Special Showing" was going to start at 9am. My friends and I got to the theater around 8:30 and the line went from the box office down the blcok to Wyckoff Ave. And the name of this Japanese Epic, you ask - (Drum rool please) - The Mysterians and I don't remember the year...

Groundstar...I have a feeling that I was there at the same time as you. I had posted previously about the "coffin" on the side of the screen when the "House on the Haunted Hill" played there and also the seats having some sort of "vibrator" under them during the "Tingler" movie.

"House On Haunted Hill" had "bone-chilling Emergo" and "The Tingler" had "spine-tingling Percepto". I missed the original releases (I was too young) but saw them on TV, and saw them, complete with gimmicks, at the Fall 1988 Gimmick-O-Rama at Film Forum in lower Manhattan, which see on this site.

I think "The Mysterians" was released in 1957. Why not check it out at :

www.imdb.com

I have a VHS copy from a friend about your age who was thrilled with it as a kid but now bored with it as an adult. He also gave me a VHS of a Commando Cody serial.

Back to William Castle "gimmick flicks" : In "Mr. Sardonicus" it was the "punishment poll" : Hold those cards up ! Thumbs up for mercy ! Thumbs down ... no mercy !!! (only one ending was ever filmed).

My favorite bits in "The Tingler" were when Vincent Price injects himself with "LSD25", and when he says to his vampy, trampy wife, with a cat in the room with her :

"You two have met ? In the same alley, perhaps ?"

Did you have fun screaming during "The Tingler" ? When they did it at Film Forum they had a staff member run around the auditorium with a rubber tingler !

The Madison also had "First Men In The Moon" and "Godzilla vs. The Thing" in fall and winter of 1964, but I didn't see them there.

The one William Castle movie I saw at the Madison was "I Saw What You Did", with Joan Crawford, in summer 1965.

Groundstar, I checked the IMDb. It says "The Mysterians" was released in the USA in 1959.

Pete - What I most remember about the "Tingler" is that there were only some seats wired - and that it was rigged to start in the rear of the theater and "work" its way down to the front -
Back to the balconey/bathroom area - were there two sets of stairs going up there? I remember the "Large" set that was in the back of the lobby (staight in from the door with the candy counter to the right) but was there also a set on the left as soon as you entered the "main" lobby - I sort of remember this, but can't quite see it in my mind.

Groundstar, I vaguely remember those stairs off to the left as soon as one entered the outer lobby. There must have been a ticket taker at the foot of those stairs, as well as the door between the outer and inner lobbies. I also remember turning 45 degrees to the right as one went from the outer to the inner lobby. The outer lobby was parallel and at right angles to Myrtle Avenue, but the inner lobby and auditorium (orchestra and balcony) was square with Wyckoff Avenue and Madison Street. The stage and screen, then, must have been parallel to Madison Street, between Myrtle and Wyckoff Avenues.

I remember the balcony of the inner lobby, the Oriental carpet on the floor, and the mirror behind the candy counter. I also remember needing to turn 45 degrees in going from a balcony seat to the rest rooms, which had windows out onto Myrtle Avenue.

When I saw "My Fair Lady" there with my mom in the summer of 1965, I remember noticing a clock, with luminous face and hands, to the left of the screen, between the proscenium arch and one of the box seats.

I do not know why it was called the Madison, as its facade, entrance and marquee was at Myrtle Avenue and Woodbine, not Madison, Street.

I have a very clear memory of two sets of stairs to the balcony in the Ridgewood Theater. As in the Madison, one from the outer lobby and one from the inner lobby. That's because I've been in the Ridgewood much more recently than in the Madison (September 12, 1992 as opposed to June or July 1976).

The Rko Madison was a awsume place in the fiftys I spent so many fun times there I sure wish these old theatres would come back and put the television wasteland out of business.

The Loew's Jersey in Jersey City, and other old-fashioned "movie palaces" are making a comeback.

Television will either refine itself, or put itself out of business, if it continues to be mostly a trivial wasteland of sex, violence, cheap thrills, greed and materialism.

I found a nice article in the Times Weekly about the Madison theater. Did you know that this theater was named after President James Madison? I don't know if you have seen this article, but if you haven't it is worth reading.

http://timesnewsweekly.com/Archives2003/Oct.-Dec.2003/123103/NewFiles/OURNEIGH.html

I too remember that clock in the auditorium. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Lostmemory - Thanks for the article - FANTASTIC!

Great article! Thanks for posting it!
Just think, if it hadn't been for Prohibition, the Madison Theater may not have been built - well at least not in that location. Was that worth not having beer during the 20's for the Madison? Hmmm, that's a tough call!

Actually, Madison Street nearby must also be named for President Madison. Along with Jefferson St being named for President Jefferson.

Fortunately, we soon had both beer and the RKO Madison for about 44 years !

I wonder if anyone can recall an incident that occurred back in October, 1950. The Madison Theater had Halloween shows fairly consistantly till then and then I screwed that up. Between the showing of horror films they put on a live show that depicted the bedroom scene where Dracula crosses the stage in an attempt to bite a lovely lady in a bed on center stage. I climbed to the stage and tried to jump Dracula to prevent him from 'biting'the woman. I only succeeded in making her scream, jump fro the bed and run off. Then the actor playing Dracula having seen me with my hands raised ran from the stage.

The stagehands tried to capture me, but I escaped. The curtain was brought down and the small play was ruined. I scrambled beneath seats and hid here and there for awhile and when at least half a dozen cops came searching for me I alluded them. Then I beat it out of the theater.

The Madison didn't have another Halloween show for at least two years. Then in 1952 or 1953 they resumed the horror show and this time it starred Bela Lugosi. Unfortunately he was a no-show. The newspapers the next day said they would no longer have a Halloween show and they alluded to the 1950 incident as well. They sued Bela, but I don't know what the outcome was. I never guessed that my juvenile prank would result in such chaos and I was lucky to escape. That was 54 years ago this month. Does anyone remember it?

I asked my mother about this incident, since she was a regular customer of the Madison in the 50's. She remembers Hallooween shows taking place for sure in the late 50's. She said they very very cheesy like a Coney Island sideshow and would have coffins and sometimes "monsters" running among the audience. Then you would see a grade Z horror flick.

The theatre was known as the Beacon during construction. In fact, just weeks before opening, it was still being reported as the Beacon in newspaper stories. I wonder what suddenly caused a change to Madison?

Robert. Thanks for commenting. Your mother is correct. That's how it was. But she's obviously younger than me. The incident I refer to was exactly in the year 1950.

On another theater board some people are talking about another Madison theater in NYC before the RKO-Madison. Perhaps that is the reason for the original Beacon name.

Carmine, what is the other "theater board" that you're talking about? I would like to check it out.

I have found a listing for another Madison theater that was located at 1499 Madison Ave in Manhattan. I have no idea what years it operated.

This other Madison theater was located on Madison ave near East 102nd St in Manhattan. I also found a Madison theater on a 1925 NY silent movie theater listing which can't be the RKO Madison in Ridgewood since that didn't open until 1927.

the madison closed in 1980 I read that in my theatre book

I think your theater book is mistaken. I have seen this "1980 closing" error elsewhere. Posted above on this page (or at least it should be) is the closing of the RKO Madison a few days after its Halloween 1977 movie show. I myself remember that the RKO Madison was definitely closed the last Saturday of February 1978. I also remember that, at that time, it had a prominent sign on it reading :

THIS IS HOW YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STARTS TO DECAY. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU, CALL : (phone number)

In late February 1978 the RKO Madison was an ugly, empty, unused hulk, inviting squatting by the homeless, vandalism, and being a "shooting gallery" for junkies. By early April 1979, the inside had burned, making it more derelict.

Was that sign to rent the place? I do not remember that.

Was that sign to rent the place? I do not remember that. The place went down fast.

the madison theater was open for exactly fifty years almost to the day

About three to four weeks shy of fifty years (Thanksgiving weekend 1927 to Halloween 1977).

RobertR, the sign "THIS IS HOW YOUR ...." was either to get the RKO Madison rented, or to get NYC to do something about it, to protect the public, by keeping it from staying derelict.

that's mean

I wrote a long piece and was cut off. i'll make it short. could anyone help me to a ridgewood web where I could talk to old and young friends. I'm not that computer literate, but i've known for a long time a web exist and can't find it and the funny thing is that I found the first black widow spider in the state of new york and I wasn't impressed by that even though the ridgewood times was. I would appreciate anyone helping me. I hate to be a pain, but I've been trying for more than a year. Thank you.

I have not seen a Ridgewood specific message board. There is one for Queens called "da Queens Stoop". The link for that site is here:
http://members3.boardhost.com/Cypwood/

There is a website that is under construction which is supposed to be for Ridgewood. The link for that site is here:
http://www.citylegacy.com/quridgewood/default.htm

There's also a Queens forum at www.queensboard.com where Ridgewood is often discussed, more often than not in a debate over whether it's in Queens or Brooklyn

I remember seeing a message on that Queensboard by someone asking if the VG. Nichols store was ever a movie theater.

When I first read the "spider" message, I thought that our old "friend?" Eddie had returned, but I now believe that bobmc is just a regular person looking to talk to some people from Ridgewood.
BTW Bob...Did the spider bite you?

Peter Parker will never tell !

Did you shorten your last name from Parker to just "K"?

Dock Ock, Green Goblin, I'll never tell !

I'm the Shocker and you can call me Sparky!

I found a listing for a Comet theater at 856 Gates Ave in Brooklyn. Is this theater on here under another name?

I want to thank all of you for giving me those Queens web pages. The spider didn't bite me, and when I showed it to my local pharmacist 55 years ago he exclaimed, "Lactrodectus Mactans." He was a former Coumbia University professor and a bug on insects. He had a window display of a variety of spiders,poisonous snakes, crystallized venom, snake eggs and the head of a rattler. He also had on display the various antidotes. The black widow spider became his prized possession and the Ridgewood Times wrote up the story and named me as the founder of the first black widow spider in the state of New York. Thanks again.

I may have clicked on the wrong item in e-mail because I happened to see that my name is no longer on e-mail. I don't get it. I'm merely writing this to check on it.

i'm o.k.

T do not believe you will find an exact month or day listed for the Rko Madison theatre closing. I will tell you that the closing date is listed as 1977.

The last 'major' movie shown at the Rko Madison theatre was Close Encounters of the Third Kind in 1977.

Well that's a pretty cool movie, so if this is accurate, I will RIP that at least the RKO Madison showed one of my favorite movies as it's Swan Song.

MORE SPIDERMAN!!!!

Wassup spiderman2

Spiderman2 sounds like an offspring of mine. In any event I recall in the spring of 1947 when I was 14 years old that I created an outdoor movie theater. My dad gave me an Excello 16 millimeter projector and reels of Castle films of Joe Louis bouts, a nature film about bear cubs and a couple of cartoons. I went into our frontroom and aimed the projector at the drawn shade in the window. We lived on the second floor in a four story building on Fresh Pond Road in Ridgewood, between Woodbine and Madison Streets. The first film I showed was of the Joe Louis Billy Conn bout of June 18, 1941.

Then I went into my sister's bedroom and looked out of her window. A crowd was gathering on the street below. I waited until the film ended and then put on the nature reel and then ran downstairs to and joined the standing room only audience. We lived only five blocks from the Oasis Theater, but my non-paying patrons seemed to enjoy my films that were shown in reverse. A man not suspecting that I was the projectionist turned to me and said, "I wonder why they're doing that?"

I said, "I don't know, but it's pretty nice of them. Right?"

Great story bobmc :) I actually still use my Super 8 camera and projector.

Thanks Robert.

bobmc stories are the best!!!Hey Bob, What was the best movie you ever saw at the Madison?

might be wrong in both answers because neither picture was an RKO production. I just associate seeing them at the Madison. One was 1939's Tower of London. Boris Karloff was scary in it, but it was Inot a horror film, but an historical melodrama. The other was 1963's To Kill A Mockingbird. It had the second scarriest scene in a movie picture for me. Gregory Peck's two small children encounter someone in the woods. It happened so suddenly I nearly jumped out of my seat. The scarriest scene I had ever seen was in 1946's Great Expectations. That one I saw at the Oasis. Young Pip played by Anthony Wager is at Romney Marshes and suddenly actor Finley Currie steps out from behind a gravestone. It was too much. Finley oudid Boris in his spooky look. This was not a horror movie either. Since horror is not expected in a non-horror film then when it happens it's doubly scary.

In "the old days" (pre-1962), the RKO Madison, like most theatres on the RKO circuit, ran all RKO, 20th-Fox, and Warner Brothers product, and 50% of Universal, and some Monogram, Republic, PRC and lesser studios. By the late 1950s, RKO Pictures was effectively dead, but RKO Theatres found a replacement with Walt Disney's Buena Vista.

This appears to be an open topic section so I will write my message here. Earlier today I submitted two theatres and neither is listed. One is located in Moscow and the other in Austria. Is this website for North America only? I submitted both in english so I don't believe there was a language problem.

Hi Rula,Just to let you know your message was all in Russian & was deleted as was my response to you. I'm sure one of the young men will direct you to another site. Maybe "bobmc" or "RobertR" can help you...They sound like nice fellas. Good luck.

I don't believe that this site is for North American theaters only. I see theaters listed on here from New Jersey so I assume that they accept "foreign" theaters. (just kidding Jersey people) Seriously, there was probably some sort of error and your theaters weren't saved.

Yeah, it is international. You can add a theater anywhere.

Rula,
You're welcome to submit theatres from anywhere. However, the Russian one you submitted was already on the site, and I emailed you back to let you know. I don't recall seeing a new submission for an Austrian theatre, so you might want to retry submitting that one and I'll be glad to post it on the site. Thanks,

Bryan Krefft
Cinema Treasures

Here is a link to open theaters in Moscow, Russia. Have fun!
http://www.infoservices.com/moscow/207.htm#C1615

Does any of the orignal Madison Theater ornamentation still exist above the drop ceiling in the store? It's such a travesty this theater interior was destroyed. The lobby was full of marble. The grand staircase was amazing.

And the centerpiece at the top of the staircase was a great painting of Dolly Madison. Before I retired from my job I used to visit various general contractor's offices in Manhattan and many of them had pieces of marble from the exteriors and interiors of buildings and no doubt movie theatres on display. I saw their warehouses filled with ornaments that probably came from theaters and even huge chandeleir's like the one that hung in the Roxy Theater. But it's sad that they removed them from the theaters of old.

I was in the Liberty Dept Store back in September, and the "grand" staircase is still there. Unfortunately, time was not kind, the stairway is no longer grand, lost it's marble to linoleum, it's intricate railing to a standard pipe "hospital" railing, painted red. It's hard to believe that staircase was once the "grand" staircase....I would love to go up that staircase and see what the old balcony area looks like. Nothing remains downstairs, but the staircase (totally modernized), and the outine of the huge balcony through the store. Nothing else unfortunately is visable.

Would you know what year the fire was at the RKO Madison Theatre? How severe was the fire and was the building already empty when the fire occured?

While I don't know the exact year, it was between 1977 and 1979. The fire occurred after the RKO Madison stopped showing movies, but before it was converted to a store. The fire occured when the building was unused. Around 1980, Consumers converted the building to a store. Originally, the public could only enter the store in the former lobby area, and maybe the area slightly under the balcony. Consumers was the type of store where you write down what you want on a form, after looking through catalogs, give it to a cashier, pay, and then they bring your item to you. It is safe to say that the merchandise was all stored in the large auditorium area of the theater, with it's full ceiling exposed, in whatever condition it was in after the fire, after all the charred remains of the seats, etc were removed. About 2 or 3 years later, Consumers closed and, and Odd-Lot moved in. Once it was Odd lot, the barrier between the lobby area and the main theater were opened, and a false drop ceiling put up in the auditorium. Odd Lot took up more or less the same space as the Liberty Dept Store. I already remember seeing the outline of the balcony back then already.

Oh, and to add. I forgot to address the "how severe" was the fire. That someone else will have to answer. Of course it is a masonary building, so the exterior was completely undamaged. I assume there was lots of smoke damage, and off course that would mean that whatever remains of the ceiling and walls above the fake ceiling, is probably heavily sooted. I don't know how severly the interior burned though.

Thank you Bway for your detailed answer. I was curious if arson had played a role in the RKO Madisons demise. Since the theatre had closed prior to the fire that would not be the case.

While I don't know if arson was involved in the RKO Madison fire, or not, as you noted, the fire did not play a part in the closing of the Madison as a theater, because the Madison closed before the fire.
However, how does a fire start in an abandoned building? While if could always be electrical or "squaters" or tresspassers in the building; I wouldn't rule out the "foul play" on the part of the owners at the time. People set fires for a variety of reasons: insurance, to "get rid" of the building being able to be used as a theater, etc, a tax write off, etc. of course this is purely speculation, I don't actually know how the fire started, but obviously buildings don't just go on fire for no reason.

I have always wondered why this theatre would close and yet the Ridgewood Theatre survives. Possibly poor management led to its demise.

I think this Astyanaax guy is the same guy that was dating Mae West in the balcomy of the Madison Theatre, there is a similar writing style.

Back to topic, to answer Tom's question, it very well may be that the Ridgewood had better management in the 70's, that made it survive over the more substantial Madison Theatre. Both were struggling in the 70s, so one had to go. The Ridgewood won that battle. Once the Madison was gone, the main competition was gone. If the Ridgewood had lost, the Madison may be the run down 5-Plex today, and the Ridgewood would be a department store. I also think that the location of the Ridgewood was and is a bit better than the location of the Madison. The Madison's location on Myrtle was already sort of run down in the 70s.

Bklyn, I agree. The Madison was definitely the superior theater, right from day one, however, Myrtle did get a bit seedy right around Myrtle-Wyckoff in the late 70's. Even though it's improved from the 70's, the Ridgewood's location is still superior to the Madison's old location. While it's great that one of them is still open, and they were both great theaters in their days, the Madison was definitely the superior quality theater. I always compare the theaters to the old Penn Station and Grand Central station in Manhattan. While Grand Central is a spectacular building (especially now that it's renovated), Penn Station was the far superior and more spectacular of the two, and Penn Station should not have been demolished. If one had to be lost, and one survie, it should have been Penn Station (not that I'd want to see Grand Central gone). The same is true on a smaller scale of the Ridgewood and the Madison. The Madison should no have been the one to close.
But that leads us to reality. At least the Ridgewood putters on, no matter how much renovation it needs.

That's nice.

There were two blizzards, one in late January, the next in late February, 1978. Which one do you mean ?

Not to get off the subject, but since you all know something about the RKO Madison and Ridgewood theaters and because I can't contact the Ridgewood Web site that Lostmemory told me is under construction and still is I thought perhaps someone out there might remember Peter's Delicattessen on Fresh Pond Road near the corner of Madison Street. My sister-in-law is desperate to learn what the recipe is for Peter's meatballs. She wished to make them over the Holidays. Peter's closed about two years ago. Hope someone out there can help me. Thanks

I loved this theater I wish it was still open. Bobmc I have my aunt Roses recipe I will give it to you. If you don't want meatballs you can use the recipe and stuff the turkey with the meat instead.

MEATBALL RECIPE


1 lb. ground beef

1 egg

1/2 cup soft bread crumbs

1/4 cup ketchup

1 tbsp. parsley flakes

1 tsp. onion powder

1 tsp. salt

1/4 tsp. pepper


Thoroughly combine all ingredients; shape into 1" balls (36). Arrange meatballs on dish. Cook at HIGH 4 - 6 minutes; stir once. Rotate dish after 3 minutes. Drain liquid. Repeat with remaining meatballs. Serve with favorite sauce.

Enjoy

Since this is now the Julia Child theater, does aunt Rose have a recipe for cheese cake?

Enjoy your Thanksgiving!!!!!!

1 cup Graham Cracker crumbs (store bought works well also)
3 tablespoons sugar
3 tablespoons butter or margarine, melted
5 packages (8 oz each) Cream Cheese, softened
1 cup sugar
3 tablespoons flour
1 tablespoon vanilla
3 eggs
1 cup sour cream
1 can (21 oz) cherry pie filling

Mix crumbs, 3 tablespoons sugar and butter; press onto bottom of 9-inch spring form pan. Bake at 350 degrees F for 10 minutes.
Mix cream cheese, 1 cup sugar, flour and vanilla with electric mixer on medium speed until well blended. Add eggs, 1 at a time, mixing on low speed after each addition, just until blended. Blend in sour cream. Pour over crust.
Bake 1 hour and 5 minutes to 1 hour and 10 minutes or until center is almost set. Run a small knife around the rim of the pan to loosen cake; cool before removing rim of pan. Refrigerate 4 hours or overnight. Top with Cherry pie filling.

Thanks Judy, I passed the recipe along with the one requested by Lostmemory. Hope everyone had a HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

I had an enjoyable holiday and hope everyone here did too. I will pass on the cheesecake recipe, thank you for posting it.

Judy......I was just kidding about the cheese cake recipe but since you posted it I might give it a try. Is that 9-inch spring form pan dangerous to use? I have trouble operating an electric can opener. :)

hey bobmc you need to email the people on this ridgewood board and ask them to start one for ridgewood or they never will
http://www.citylegacy.com/quridgewood/default.htm

they only got 5 boards for queens so far

Thanks Wassup. The only problem is that I tried this a month ago and again today. After filling out a form and putting in my comments i submit and then a message tells me to return to the form I completed. The form is blank and my comments are gone. Just for the heck of it I clicked on submit and it says Please enter a value for "Name" field. I guess I'm doing something wrong.

I haven't been on for several weeks now - am just trying to catch up. I went to that citylegacy.com website and could not find anything I was willing to pay $12.50 to join. I'm glad everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and hope the coming holidays are just as grand. Can you tell me if it's OK to take the pictures of theaters submitted by individuals to put on my website. It is located on MyFamily.com and it's growing every day. Of course most of it is pictures right now, but I'm hoping someday to have lots of different sections. I can still be reached at eleanorctr@aol.com about those pictures of the Gates, the Alhambra, the Ridgewood, the Madison and any others in the area. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Most of the people on my website no longer live in Brooklyn, although some are on the Island. I had good friends who lived on Halsey - half way up the block from Knickerbocker. I'm sure they would like to see the picture even if it breaks their heart. I know it breaks mine. Hoping to hear soon.

Like the lady above posts I add two theatre last week only one is on listing. I put in lots of time finding theatre and all my work is wasted. I first check for duplicate and find none so what happens here.

About a month ago I added two theaters that are not listed here either. I figured that there was some sort of system error and they just got lost. I doubt that they were duplicates since I do a name search and a zip code search just to be safe. I don't remember which theaters they were so I can't add them again. Two days ago I added a drive-in theater called the Calvert Drive-In located in Calvert City, KY. I did a name and zip code search and cannot find that drive-in listed on here. If it is on here under another name, its under the wrong name since that drive-in has used the same name since it opened. The only Calvert Theater listed on here is a demolished theater that was located in Washington,DC. Now I see that other people are having similar problems so its not just me.

The Calvert Drive-In has returned from the "Twilite Zone" so that problem is solved. Thanks guys!

Lostmemory, did you find The Calvert Drive-In? You made me curious and I only see the one that is closed. Now you have me thinking about a drive-in theater in Lanesboro, Massachusettes. But should I care? It opened in 1949 and the last that I was there was in 1950. I saw 1944's The Uninvited starring Ray Milland and Gail Russell.

bobmc.....The Calvert Drive-In is listed on here now. I did find a drive-in theater in Lanesboro. The name of it was the Sunset Park Auto Drive-In theater. The only thing that I know about it is, it is listed as closed. Is this the drive-in that your thinking of?

I have not seen a comment since 12/7/04. Although I thought I did see maybe a couple more after this date. In any event my e-mail said that a comment was made today, but I find none. Happy New Year.

Hi, everyone. I'm new to this website and thought I'd post my memories of my favorite neighborhood theater. I grew up in the Brooklyn side of Ridgewood, yeah, went to St. Brigid's (class of '66), know of the Imperial on Irving, the Wagner and the Wyckoff (passed them every day on the way to school), but my favorite has to be the RKO MADISON. It was very children-friendly.

They had all the great Corman horror films there as well as some not so great William Castle films there too, like MR. SARDONACUS, where we voted with thumbs-up or thumbs-down cards if we, the audiance, wanted to see Mr. Sardonacus' face, and THE NIGHT STALKER with Barbara Stanwyck and her ex-husband Robert Taylor. And THIRTEEN GHOSTS which we had to watch through special glasses if we wanted to see the ghosts.

They also had great Saturday matinee's of 15 COLOR CARTOONS (as it said on the marquee) and once a year they had this stupid short of a foot race. You'd get a ticket at the door and if you had the winning ticket (the old man would win the race in the film) you'd be invited (as I was one year) on stage to recieve a prize (mine was a set of Chinese checkers). You can only imagine how exciting it was to see the MADISON from the foot of the stage. I must have been about ten years old, circa 1962.

I guess it was inevitable that I'd become enamored with movie theaters as a kid growing up in Ridgewood since the whole neighborhood was packed with theaters and a quite a few mystery-theaters, buildings that were probably once theaters but were by then used for other things. I'd quiz my dad who grew up on Wilson Avenue and Sydam Street in the 20's and 30's and he's the one who often told me the names of the then defunct theaters.

This website is like walking through the old neighborhood. I hope to post some more thoughts on the RKO MADISON soon since it played a very important part in my growing-up.

Please keep posting your memories of all the theaters. They are great to read.

Did the Liberty Dept store add a second floor to the former Madison theater, or is that dropped ceiling just a decoration. This building is listed as a one story building so I would assume that the ceiling is for decoration. They may have converted the former balcony to a small office space and that is where the stair case leads to. This is a currect real estate report for this property:

54-30 Myrtle Avenue, Ridgewood, New York 11385

Block & Lot #: 03544 - 0024
Building Class: Store Building, One Story (K1)
School District: 24 map/schools
City Council District: 30
Police Precinct: 104 (Crime Statistics)
Political Contributions: search
BUILDING CHARACTERISTICS
Zoning C4-3
Building Size (F x D): 55.00ft x 182.00ft
Lot Size (F x D): 55.00ft x 182.00ft
Building Height: -
Total Gross Area of Building:
Year Built: 1927
Historic District?: No
Corner Lot?: No
Has Garage?:
Number of Floors: 1
# Units: 0
FAR as built: 1.26
Allowable FAR: 3.40

The RKO Madison was built with a balcony. The balcony was not removed when the theater was converted to retail. The outline of the balcony down the middle of the theater is still there in it's entirety. The ceiling under the old balcony is a "drop ceiling", but the original ceiling of the balcony is directly under that. Of course the drop ceiling over the old main auditorium area is of course a "fake ceiling", hiding the fact that the huge theater ceiling is way above that.
I don't know if they consider a former balcony (which was not small by any means) as a "floor" of a building, but the grand stairway does lead to the floor that used to be the balcony, and it is there in it's entirety.

Thats what I was saying. The dropped ceiling is hiding the original ceiling that is way above the balcony. They could have removed the balcony seats, leveled the balcony floor and converted it to office space. The balcony is not considered a second story since it doesn't occupy the entire length of the building. And your right, it was a large balcony, I sat up there many times.

Yeah, that's what I meant to. (Although the front part of the store's ceiling has to be right above the drop ceiling, I would assume.
Of course I have no idea if any of the stores ever did anything with the balcony area, although I am sure the seats are ripped out. Perhaps they leveled the floor too, but that would have required them building quite a few feet above the edge of the balcony., which would have been quite costly (it's not as easy as leveling out a first floor, where in the case of the Oasis they actually filled in the orchestra level with sand right over the seats! A former worker of the Oasis Roller rink mentioned secret rooms where he actually saw the first few rows of seats under the floor!)
Who knows.
Yeah, I guess the city doesn't consider a balcony level a second level (they don't in the Commodore section either). Although, interestingly, they Ridgewood is I believe considered three floors, even though the second floor is the balcony (with a third level above that - which could be the reason they say three floors in it's case).

The Ridgewood theater actually is a three story building, at least it was before it became a multiplex. The entire theater was not three floors, only the entrance from Myrtle ave back to Madison St. On Madison street there used to be a large fire escape leading from the upper two floors down to the street. It might still be there. At one time the second floor was a pool hall and the third floor was a dance hall called the Silver Dollar club back in the 40's and 50's. The pool hall was Cappy's pool hall and later it became Hank's billiards. I stopped going to Hank's around 1965 when the Ridgewood Grove become a pool hall so I don't know what replaced Hank's billiards or if anything did replace it.

AH, that explains it. Of course. Now I get it. The three story part of the Ridgewood is the lobby part of the building, that is the length of the other stores adjoing it on Myrtle.
I don't believe that has changed. The balcony of the Ridgewood of course is in the actual theater building behind it. Nothing really changed with the multiplexing of the Ridgewood. The front part on Myrtle was untouched for the most part. The balcony was made into three and the auditorium was cut in half downstairs. If not for the front Myrtle Ave part of the building, they probably would list the Ridgewood as a "1" story building even though it has the balcony area.

Back to the Madison.....
I was only in the Madison as a kid in the 70's, so don't remember it all that well. Was the lobby a one story lobby with a low ceiling, or did the "grand staircase" open up to a two story lobby (with a high ceiling, such as at the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill?). If that is the case, then there is a fake ceiling in the front too.

The two floors above the Ridgewood theater were/are small. Not much larger than the stores next to the theater entrance. The pool hall that was on the second floor only had about 10-12 tables.

I'm trying to picture the interior of the Madison. Its been many moons since I've been inside this theater. Even though it had one "complete" floor, the building itself is about three stories tall. The foyer on the Madison was about two stories high. The balcony was very large. I would estimate that the balcony had 1000 plus seats. As I remember more about the Madison I'll post it here.

Thanks.
In the late 80's or early 90's, they powerwahed the granite of the fasade and repointed the seams. At that time, they also put new windows in the four windows on the second floor, and you could see that some sort of rooms were behind those windows, but they were probably rooms even when it was a theater. (someone mentioned the upstairs men's room was behind one of those windows when it was a theater, but I don't remember who said that or if it is reputible, I think I may have read it here though). Anyway, once Liberty Dept stores took over the Madison, they put a two story sign up on the Madison, and that covered over the row of second floor windows, so they are no longer visable from the street.

We were discussing the fact that the Ridgewood theater has three floors and the Madison is listed as having only one. Could those two additional floors be the reason that the Ridgewood is still open today? Both of those floors were rented out. That gave the Ridgewood additional income that the other theaters in the area did not have. When business was slow, the Ridgewood had a better chance of riding it out. The other theaters had nothing to fall back on and had to close. This is one possible explanation of why the Ridgewood theater survived and not one other theater in Ridgewood or Glendale managed to do the same.

Who were those two additional floors of the Ridgewood Theater rented to, besides the pool hall ? How much additional income would they have generated, and how would it have compared to the movie ticket and refreshments income from the theater ?

Peter....I don't know if those two floors are still rented out today. It was the only theater in the area that had that ability and I'm curious how much of a role it played in keeping the Ridgewood open when all the other theaters closed. If you buy a one family house and occupy it, you pay the whole mortgage. If you buy a two or more family home, and rent out the other apartment(s) the rent(s) help pay the mortgage. Thats how I'm looking at the Ridgewood theater situation.

It also depends on when the 2nd and 3rd floor was rented. I don't think they were still used by the 60's or 70's, and up to that point, the movie theater business wasn't in trouble.
Also don't forget that some other theaters had extra income also. IINM, the RKO Madison theater owned a few of the storefronts on Myrtle Ave that they rented out. I know they rented the stores on either side of the entrance, but they may have owned some of the other stores along front of the theater building, like where the Carvel used to be nearby, and some of the others.

While upper floor rentals of the Ridgewood may have helped in the early years, I don't think they were still rented by the 60's or 70's. at really saved the Ridgewood was the fact that it was cut up into multiple auditoriums. It could never have survived if it remained intact. The RKO Madison was the better of the two theaters, but that one also would have had to be cut up if it was to remain a movie theater, and both the Ridgewood AND the Madison could not have survived together past 1980, even if both were cut up. I would have hated to see the Madison cut up, but what actually happened is probably worse. There is no way though that the Madison would have made it through the 1980's intact. We are lucky to even have the Ridgewood, even if it is cut up. The real thing that probably makes it still lucrative to remain open is the fact that there is no nearby theater to the Ridgewood, and that has been the case for 20 years. With Atlas terminal building a multiplex in Glendale, I hope the Ridgewood will be able to hold on after that opens.

The pool hall was still there in the late 60's. I stopped going there around 1965 but it was still there at least to 68' or 69'. If the theater isn't using those two floors, why not rent them out and make some money. Commercial space on Myrtle avenue must be worth some good money. Let me ask you this question, why would they build the Ridgewood theater with those two floors if those two floors were not for theater use? The other theaters didn't have rentable space above them. When I was doing research on the Madison and Ridgewood theaters, I think I told you B'way via email about the "Ridgewood Theater Corp" buying up properties around the Madison in the 70's. Maybe the Madison was selling those properties in order to stay open. I just thought that the income from those two rentals helped to keep the Ridgewood going while the Madison couldn't any longer. And if the Madison had survived, I agree that it would be a multiplex today.

More jibberish nonsense. The three of you carry on as buffoons. I see no factual statements being made only conjecture and speculation. Use your time more wisely to find factual theatre data that will benefit everyone. Childish gossip runs amok here.

Yup. I do remmeber you telling me that. And I wonder if the "Ridgewood Theater Corp" that owned/owns the surrounding stores next to the RKO Madison is in fact the same company that owned the Ridgewood Theater in the 70's. (or is it just some company that bought the RKO Madison that was called "Ridgewood (as in the town of) Theater Corp".
However, if "The Ridgewood Theater Corp" did have something to do with the Ridgewood Theater itself, I then also speculate that it might be possible that owners of the Ridgewood Theater (in the 70's which is different than the owners today) may have actually bought the RKO Madison theater site (and it's surrounding stores) when it came up for sale, so that some other theater company could not come in and be competition to them. It seems that the RKO Madison was quickly made unusable as a theater. Now I am not saying that the Ridgewood Theater owners of the 70's (which are not the current owners of the Ridgewood Theater by the way) bought the Madison Theater and then mysterously the "fire" at the Madison happened, but a building just doesn't go on fire by itself; something had to cause it (although of course it could have been electrical too, or vandals as the theater was vacant at the time).
Who knows what really happened, but it is quite interesting that the stores that front on Myrtle Ave, that used to be part of the RKO Madison Theater site, are owned by the "Ridgewood Theater Corp". But again, that could be a corporation, "[The Town of] Ridgewood Theater Corp", and may have been a corporation that was formed when the RKO Madison Theater was bought, and not have had anything to do with the Ridgewood Theater itself.
It's quite interesting though. If you ever find anything else out about it, please let me know. I always enjoy the interesting info you come up with.

Tom Scott. Yes it is speculation that the Madison and the Ridgewood could not have survived together, and yes it is speculation that the RKO Ridgewood Theatre could not have survived, or that the only thing that could have saved the RKO Madison was multiplexing.
However, this is not entirely not based on facts. History shows us that most of the neighborhood theaters in the city could not survive as single screen theaters once the 1980's came around, and especially two so close together, only a block or two apart, and while the neighborhood never fell completely like Bushwick, the area right around the RKO Madison and the Ridgewood to a lesser extent was in decline in the 1970's.
I stand by my statement that the Ridgewood Theater and the Madison could not survive together into the 1980's, and especially as single screen theaters. And if both had been multiplexed, even then only one would have prevailed (or both might be gone as neither would probably have been lucrative pulling for the same customers if both were multiplexed). It was either the Madison or the Ridgewood, it couldn't be both, and whichever survived had to be multiplexed, and in this case the Ridgewood prevailed.

I meant the RKO Madison in my first sentence above, not the "RKO Ridgewood" as I typed by accident.

Bway, I think you're right that the main reason the Ridgewood has survived was its gradual multiplexing from June 1980 to the present.

Perhaps this most recent Ridgewood Theater discussion here on the RKO Madison's page should be shifted to the Ridgewood Theater page.

I have to read those documents again before I post anymore on the Ridgewood theater. Some of the info in those documents is not public domain. I'll also see if I can come up with more "Childish gossip" to post since Tom seems to enjoy it so much.

Don't forget whatsizname up in what's left of the balcony of the RKO Madison with what's left of the corpse of Mae West !

Peter, please, lauging this hard can do damage!

I wonder what ever happened to that crazy Eddie guy. He was goofy but he wasn't mean like someone else on here is. Didn't Eddie say that he broke up with Mae West and was dating Jean Harlow? Oe was he dating them both at the same time? Inquiring minds want to know.

Sorry, Bway. Just cough and make sure it's still hanging OK.

Speaking of "hanging", lostmemory, maybe Crazy Eddie has given up both Mae West and Jean Harlow for Clara Bow, Lillian Gish, Mary Pickford and Patsy Ruth Miller, all of the silent screen. He may prefer the maturity of a (much) older woman !

"Necrophilia, here I come, right back where it started from !"

RKO Theatres owned an interest (15%, I think) in Metropolitan Playhouses, the company that included the Randforce circuit, which operated the Ridgewood Theatre. So it seems possible that the Madison and Ridgewood were both owned by a subsidiary company that RKO and Randforce formed for accounting and tax reasons.

UA had the final say concerning the fate of the Madison theatre. The smaller Ridgewood theatre was more economical to operate. Do you think each theatre was a seperate entity? Both theatres were under the ultimate control of Metropolitan Playhouses Inc. and in turn MPI was contolled by UA.

So many interesting stories associated with this theatre including a recipe for meatballs and cheesecake. LOL It is sad that the Rko Madison closed but at the time of its closing the neighborhood was deteriorating and attendance had dropped off. Be thankful that the Ridgewood managed to survive and will give future movie goers the same good memories that we had when we attended movies there.

Albeit in a somewhat different form as a five-plex.

I remember running away when I was a kid and it was so cold out that I snuck in the Madison and stayed for 1/1/2 days watching Patton over and over and over again. There were so many places to hide. I was scared to death during the night, but it was warm. I eventually went home of course.
Danny G

Do you now know "Patton" by heart as a result ?

I think I saw "Patton" in the Ridgewood Theatre in Sept. 1970.

"And when you put your fingers in that mess of goo that was your buddy's face ... the thing is not to die for your country. It's to make the other poor sonuvabitch die for HIS country !"

They would have played "Patton" at both the Ridgewood and the RKO Madison? I knew they were in competition with each other, but it seems foolish to me that they would play the same movie at both theaters.

I don't think "Patton" was shown at both the Ridgewood and the Madison at the same time. Perhaps my memory is off a bit.

I'm surprised they would play them at both theaters at all, even if not at the same time. It would seem to make more sense to play entirely different movies. Even if it weren't at the same time, whichever theater played it first would have had most in the neighborhood that wanted to see it come already, so by the time it got to the second theater, it wouldn't be all that patronized.

I think that "Patton" was rush-reissued after it won seven Oscars, so it might have played at the Madison or Ridgewood originally, and then at the other theatre later.

Patton did play at the Ridgewood when it was first released.

Thanks, LennyL., for confirming my memory of having seen it at the Ridgewood.

"Patton" and "M.A.S.H." played on the same bill at many NYC theaters in 1970 and 1971. Ironic, as they were two completely different views of Americans at war.

I never saw the movie "Patton", but I remember seeing Patton in 1945 on Pathe News in the Oasis Theater. He had just crossed the Rhine and I noticed over his right shoulder a woman rowing a small boat in the distance and she resembled Mae West. Now you have me wondering. I remember the name printed on the boat. "Eddie My Love".

I found a January 1931 newspaper ad that lists many Brooklyn and Queens theaters and the movies playing there that month. Unfortunately the exact day isn't given. It lists Fox, Loew's, RKO and Century theaters. At the RKO Madison in Jan of 1931 the movie "Scarlet Pages" with Elsie Ferguson and Marion Nixon. There is no listing for the Ridgewood theater. In fact, the only "Ridgewood" theater listed is the RKO Madison.

I saw many movies at the Madison but the best were the Murray the K Rock N Roll Shows. We saw Joey Dee & the Starliters, Chubby Checker, Chuck Berry, the Duvals, Little Stevie Wonder (when he first started performing) Brenda Lee and many other groups and singles. It was great growing up in the Ridgewood/Glendale neighborhood, wonderful memories.

I never knew the Murray the K shows played the Madison, thanks for the info.

Here is a great ad for "Return of the Fly" and "Son of Robin Hood" playing the RKO circuit.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/FLYNaberun.jpg

Here is the double bill discussed above of Patton & Mash at the UA Ridgewood. Does that mean Patton played the Madison the first go around?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Patton-MashatRidgewood.jpg

The last time I was ever in the RKO Madison was to see "Tentacles" and "Squirm"
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Tentacles.jpg

Great ad Robert. That shows that the Madison was still open in the summer of 1977. Do you have any later ones that include the Madison? Maybe we can figure out when this theater actually closed.

The next film on the track was "Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane" I will find it tonight, I think that took the Madison to the end of August 1977.

Here is that ad, I saw this at the Midway, but can't recall the co-feature
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/LittleGirlWhoLivesDowntheLane.jpg

Here's a 1947 image of the Madison's marquee. During that era, the Madison usually played a double feature of "B" movies for two days in mid-week, prior to the opening of the next "major" program, which would run for five days. These two were from Monogram and PRC:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/2abe3940.jpg

Warren thanks for posting this picture, it's great.

"Willard" at the Madison
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Williard.jpg

Further to my historical comments above dated February 11, 2004, here are three 1927 images taken from rather murky microfilm at the NYPL:
www.18.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2477_IMG.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2474_IMG.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2482_IMG.jpg

The vertical Madison sign looks the same as in the 1947 photo. The marquee appears to be different. I wonder what year they changed the marquee. Those photos must have been taken around the time that the Madison opened.

Thanks so much Warren! They are great! This is the first time I have seen the interior of the Madison since it was a theater - Liberty Dept Store doesn't count! I wish they were better quality, but these are certainly better than nothing. The curve of the balcony line is the only thing that is still recognizable presently in the Liberty Dept Store. Hard to believe that ceiling is all covered on top of the "fake" ceiling - well, what's left of it anyway.
Keep them coming...hopefully we will see a photo of the Ridgewood soon too!

They probably kept the steel structure of the original marquee and just changed the facing. I would guess that happened after the end of WWII, as soon as materials became available again. The three arched windows directly above the marquee were reported to be part of the theatre's "executive offices."

Those three windows survived until the 90's. (Well they are probably still there, but covered with the Liberty Dept store). The building was even steam cleaned and stone repointed in the early 90's, the windows were even replaced...it looked great, but then they decided to put that huge sign up, and they have been covered ever since. I don't believe the stonework around the windows was damaged, as the sign seems to stick out from the surface a bit.

Here's a current photo I took last year, by the way (I think I linked to it somewhere in this thread, but couldn't find my post).

Click here for photo

It's funny I remember so well having my father take me to see this movie "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun" because it had a stage show of Bob McAllistar from Wonderama and the space suits from Apollo 12. Now I knew that the astronauts were not real but now I read the space suits were reproductions as well. I was so into the space program back then and now I read it and it seems silly.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/IamCuriousYellow.jpg

RobertR, please see my comment on "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun" on the Wagner Theater page.

Re : Apollo missions : "Marooned" was pulled from theaters until the Apollo 13 crew were safely back from space. I saw it at the Arion in Middle Village in May 1970.

3D at the Madison, this ad suggests that only "Rue Morgue" is the 3D version and "Creature" is not?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/PhantomofRueMorgue.jpg

Christmas 1960 "Can Can" at popular prices
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Butterfield8.jpg

Here's another exterior from May, 1929, by which time the "B.S. Moss" at the top of the vertical sign had been replaced by "Keith Albee." The American flag was perhaps in honor of Memorial Day:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/127-2735_IMG.jpg

Reading the posts about the Madison Theater sparked my memories of the theater and the neighborhood around it. Here are my recollections. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
I spent the first four years of my living in an apartment at 1664 Woodbine St (about 1 block from the RKO Madison), and my adolescence and teen years at 1713 Woodbine (about 2 blocks away). It was always there, a part of our lives and almost taken for granted. You could stand on the stoop of 1713 Woodbine and look toward the theater and see the yellow lights chasing around on the marquee, and the big letters R-K-O would light up one at a time, then all go out and do it all over again. When it would rain and the brick of the six family houses would be wet, those lights were reflected by the red and yellow brick and added a colorful illumination to the entire block.
I never quite realized in my childhood that this was ‘downtown Ridgewood’ and could compare to downtown areas in cities with populations of a few hundred thousand people. People would just say they were going ‘to the Avenue’ for this or that, meaning Myrtle Avenue and we just took it for granted. There were many stores and businesses along Wyckoff Avenue and up Myrtle all the way to Fresh Pond Road. I guess the entertainment area generally ran from Wyckoff Ave to Putnam Ave.
Here is some of what I remember from that area along Myrtle Ave in the ‘60’s and early ‘70’s. The Marco Lanes Bowling Alley was on Wyckoff Ave. in the former Parthenon Theater. Coming around to Palmetto Street was the Newsstand and the “Greek’s” at the top of the stairs to the Canarsie “L” train Line. The ‘depot’ was on Palmetto Street and included a yellow taxi stand with a phone that always seemed to be ringing when I walked by. If you walked to the B55 bus stop you passed a drug store, Jacobi’s (which was a grocery with a lot of bakery items), and a hole in the wall luncheonette. The side of an ancient parking garage ran all the way up Palmetto to St. Nicholas Ave. This street always seemed to have the aroma of sauerbraten mixed with stale beer from the A&J Bar & Restaurant on the corner of Palmetto & Myrtle (I can still taste the sauerbraten an potato balls there). The Ratskaller was on the basement level and is probably where burlesque was finally pronounced died.
That block going towards the theater included Koletty’s Ice Cream Parlor, a Loft’s Candy Store, the Optimo Store, which is still there, Bickford’s Cafeteria, a clothing store named Jack Zimmer, and Gottlieb’s deli style restaurant, Sach’s tobacco store, a frozen custard stand, a barber shop, a small shop that sold artificial limbs, Carrato’s Pizza, Al’s Barber Shop (4 Butchers, No Waiting!), and Ciro’s Italian Restaurant on St. Nicholas Avenue. There were a few shoe stores around here too-I think Father & Son and Regal Shoes. Lee Fong’s Chinese Restaurant and a Carvel were just west of the Madison Theater. I vaguely remember the Ridgewood Terrace, a Chinese restaurant just east of the theater. I believe they had floorshows there on weekends. It burned when I was a kid and was replaced with what we called the ‘new’ Woolworth’s (to differentiate it from the smaller ‘old’ Woolworth’s which was about five blocks west on Myrtle Avenue)..
I have always thought it was ironic that directly across the street from this grand theater were a live poultry market and a gas station. I remember how it smelled from those chickens (it was worse on St. Nicholas Ave than on Myrtle) but I guess it reflects an earlier time. The Madison Diner replaced both these properties by the mid 60’s.
My great grandmother lived sort of South of the theater in a six family home on Cornelia St between Cypress and Wyckoff Avenues. I remember she had family photos which were taken on the roof (a common pre-flash custom). You could see the Madison Theater in the background as it was taller and stood out. I remember there being views of the theater both under construction, and finished in the background of those photos.
In my childhood I only remember being in one theater that was swankier than the Madison, and that was Radio City Music Hall (saw “Dear Heart” starring Glenn Ford, Geraldine Page and Angela Lansbury). The Madison and the Loew’s Valencia in Jamaica are # 2 on my list (but not equal). I remember the Valencia as being a bit run down when we went to see “Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines” there, but I was awestruck, even though I did not really like the décor at all. The first time I can remember being in the RKO Madison was to see Doris Day and Rock Hudson in Send Me No Flowers. Other movies I remember seeing there, but by no means a complete list: My Fair Lady, The Ten Commandments (re-release), Funny Girl, Airport, Willard, and Lovers And Other Strangers.
Two movies I did not see, but that played there and stay in my memory is The Odd Couple and The Graduate. When Odd Couple was there-held over for a few weeks I think-giant pictures of Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau were added to the marquee, one on each side facing each other. For The Graduate I believe we had a giant cut out of Ann Bancroft’s leg adorning Myrtle Avenue!
This is how I remember the theater interior. Let’s see how accurate my memory is or is not. There was an outside lobby with a box office in the middle. I think the floor was tile, but they would put out reddish rubber mats when it rained. Then you walked into a marble hallway that had coming attractions posters on either side and led you to the ticket taker who stood in a doorway that led to the actual lobby. The lobby was very tall and had lighting on the walls and some kind of large chandelier hanging from the ceiling. There was a candy counter to the left side. There was a big marble staircase on the back wall that led up to the balcony. I’m a little fuzzy on this, but I believe the theater was separated from the lobby by a wall and doors, but there was a half wall inside the theater behind the back row and space to walk behind that. When you took that huge staircase to the upper level of the lobby there was a landing with a marble railing that prevented people from falling into the lobby. If you looked over this rail and across the lobby there were several large mirrors and you could see your reflection.
I come from a family of smokers, so we always sat in the balcony when we were together. When we kids would come alone we had to sit in the infamous “children’s section’ which I remember was on the right side Most of my memories are of sitting in this section. There was always a tough matron whose last job must have been in the NY City Penitentiary. She wielded a large flashlight, her main weapon to stop mischief! I seem to recall kids being ejected if they persistently misbehaved. The fire hoses were in recessed cabinets on the sidewalls with and lit up. I recall that the exits were clearly marked with some kind of stained glass signage that indicated the exit numbers. Maybe some interior photos will eventually turn up and help bring back our memories.
Since I found the website and the photos of the theater I have mentioned it to my parents. My dad, age 70, told me right away that he remembered the organ coming out between or after a movie. There would be a sing along following the bouncing ball. Sometimes the organ played, and sometimes the music came from the screen. He also remembered vaudeville shows there.
My mom is 68 and has many memories of this theater. She is computer savvy, so I hope she will post her own personal stories. A few things she told me: that the Madison was quite a step up from going to the Ridgewood and she always remembers it being full and sometimes having to sit separately from family members, that the ladies’ room was very opulent; she remembers that Vaudeville was on Tuesday nights and her grandmother used to take her there sometimes; that the lobby had a lot of burgundy or maroon colors; that the children’s section matron was a regular Nazi, and how much they got for 25 cents on a Saturday morning.
I remember the theater was rented for graduations of various high schools. People would use every available parking space in the neighborhood and often had to walk blocks to their car, often with a graduate in cap and gown in tow.
A Ridgewood question: does anyone know of an ‘open air’ theater that existed in the 1920’s on Seneca Avenue near the corner of Hancock Street? My dad’s family owned the six family homes at 930 & 932 Seneca Avenue from the late teens through the forties. My grandmother (now deceased) moved there from Williamsburg in 1924 when she married. She used to tell us stories of climbing a few steps up the wash line pole which allowed her to watch the silent movies being shown. I think it was called the Evergreen Theater. At some point the Bank of the Manhattan Company and a catering hall called the Glenwood Manor was built where the theater had been.. This building also housed a pool hall and Pachman’s Toy Store. This building burned down in the 1950’s and was replaced by one of the first Bohack supermarkets.
I hope my memories are pretty accurate and others can fill in the blanks with their own stories

Great post mrbillyc. It brought back alot of memories. As far as I know, there were actually two Evergreen theaters. The open Airdome and the enclosed theater right next to it. If your looking for the Evergreen theater, click here:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/8026/

This story from 1964 talks about opera at the Madison. It seems so unreal now if you saw the area.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/metatmadison.jpg

Another of Shelly's AIP efforts that opened at the Madison.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/who.jpg

I don't remember opera being at the Madison. I wouldn't have gone there anyway so that might be the reason that I don't remember it. Notice that it places the Madison Theater in Ridgewood, Queens for the opera people. When movies resumed, it was back to Brooklyn again for this theater.

More opera at the Madison, this time on screen. Can you imagine something like this opening today?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/LaBoheme.jpg

More opera at the Madison, this time on screen. Can you imagine something like this opening today?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/LaBoheme.jpg

That ad is from 1965? I don't remember that one either. I must have been in a coma that year. :)

Haha! Yeah, when they wanted the opera people at the Madison, they told them the theater was in Queens (and rightfully so, since the theater IS in Queens). Then when it was back to movies, they went back to the Brooklyn "farce".
I agree with Robert, it's hard to imagine this kind of a spread today almost ANYWHERE in the outer boroughs, much less that part of Ridgewood, near the Bushwick border! What about the "Arion" singers by the German-American society! Hahahaha!

Maybe in the 1930's or 40's opera might have attracted some people to the Madison. I doubt that it would be a sell out in the 1960's. In Ridgewood, you might have drawn a larger audience with Wayne Newton singing Danke Shane than with any opera program.

That is a very unkind thought to plant in my mind. I might wake up tonight screaming from nightmares of being castrated !

Not to mention being up in the balcony with Mae West and not being able to do anything ....

The Madison is yet another example of a theatre that had its auditorium built on a diagonal to the entrance to achieve a larger seating capacity. For proof, see the color photo included in the new article about Ridgewood at www.forgotten-ny.com

The Madison and the Ridgewood theater have one thing in common. Both theaters have one exterior wall running parallel to Madison St. The Madison has one end of the building on Wyckoff Ave and one long wall on Madison St. The Ridgewood theater has one end of the building on Cypress Ave and one long wall on Madison St. Both theaters sit on a block that is more or less shaped like a triangle. Most of the smaller neighborhood theaters that were in Ridgewood like the Majestic, Grandview, Wyckoff, etc were just rectangular buildings with the entrance at one end of the building. The Ridgewood chose to put its entrance in the center of the building on Myrtle and the Madison chose to put its entrance on the NE end of the building as close as they could to the center of the block. The Ridgewood and Madison were the "Crown Jewels" of their respective blocks and they tried to center the entrances to reflect that. I think that the architects for both buildings did an outstanding job considering that they were trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

When you compare the photo that Bway posted of the Liberty store and the photo from the Forgotten NY site, you can see how photos can be deceiving. The straight ahead photo that Bway took gives the impression of one fairly large building that goes straight back. The Forgotton NY angled view photo shows that the building on Myrtle Ave is in reality only the entrance. It actually looks like a small apartment building. The actual theater is the large building behind it to the right. Straight photo from Bway and Angled photo from Forgotten NY.

I've had a similar experience with the former Valencia in Jamaica, now the Tabernacle Of Prayer. The baroque / rococo entrance and facade on Jamaica Avenue are relatively small, and give no sense of the true scale of the building. But, walk west on the north side of Jamaica Avenue, cross Merrick Blvd., look at the Merrick Blvd. wall of the theater on the west side of that block, four or five stories high, and extending about 2/3 of the way to Hillside Avenue, and you get an idea of that theater's true huge size.

Here is an ad from when "Parent Trap" was on the RKO circut in July 1961. What is interesting is that some of the theatres are playing it with a Disney featurette called "The Saga of Windwagon Smith" and others with a co-feature called "Snipers Ridge" which does not appear to be a Disney film. However all houses ran the Donald Duck cartoon "Donald and the Wheel". The next day the new show was Elvis in "Wild in the Country" and the "Trapp Family Singers".
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/wildincountry.jpg

robert R i sent you an email wondering why no listing of Broadway theatre in Brooklyn on myrtle avenue best wisshes bill metz

The Broadway Theater, near the Bway-Myrtle Ave elevated station is listed on the site:


http://www.cinematreasures.org/theater/3987/

My parents remember seeing this at the Madison and waiting on a huge line that went down Myrtle Avenue to get in.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/HouseonHauntedHill.jpg

I saw this movie at the Madison. "Emergo" was a coffin mounted on the wall next to the screen and a skeleton comes out and "flys" over the audience on a hidden wire towards the balcony. Talk about gimmicks! Thats a nice ad Robert, it brings back good memories. Thanks for posting it.

Thanks, Robert and lostmemory. I saw (and felt)"Emergo" and other William Castle gimmicks (Punishment Poll, Percepto)at Film Forum, 57 Watts St. lower Manhattan at the September 1988 Gimmick-O-Rama. Closest I came to experiencing them at the Madison was "Premature Burial" (summer 1962) "Man With The X-Ray Eyes" and "Black Sabbath" (spring and summer 1964, respectively). The first William Castle film I saw at the Madison was
"I Saw What You Did" in summer 1965.

Another William Castle movie called "The Tingler" came out around the same year as "House on Haunted Hill". The gimmick for "The Tingler" was having some sort of vibrating device under the seats. Also, the way to stop The Tingler was to scream. Vincent Price told everyone to scream as loud as they can. A movie with audience participation! It seems silly now, but at the time these gimmicks made a not so great movie kind of interesting.

To say the least. The gimmick in that one was "spine-tingling Percepto" (mild electric shocks in some of the seats). I saw that at Film Forum also, and, boy, did we have fun letting it rip !

Not only did the dark silhouette of The Tingler move across the otherwise blank white movie screen, as an added bonus, a member of the Film Forum staff ran around the cinema, shaking a three-foot rubber Tingler at us !

My favorite line from "The Tingler" was when Vincent Price and his trampy wife were in the same room as the family cat, and he says to her, "You two have met, in the same alley, perhaps ?"

My favorite scene was when Price injects himself with the "LSD 25" !

What my wife and I found scariest about "House on Haunted Hill" was not the Emergo, but the severed heads inside the suitcases.

I really hate when you find severed heads inside of a suitcase. It doesn't leave much room for your clothes. LOL

Me too. Not to mention the bloody mess inside that stains them.

I can picture instructions for a course in movie horror that one has to travel to :

"Room should be left in luggage for two severed heads."

What did Jeffrey Dahmer call a suitcase with severed heads inside?

A Lunchbox!!!

Great ! Thanks, lostmemory !

How about some Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lecter jokes ?

A mind is a wonderful thing to taste, but human brain as a delicacy can be hard to swallow.

Hannibal Lecter joke:

When Hannibal Lecter was a child, Why did his parents scold him at the dinner table? For playing with his food. :)

Speaking of Vincent Price. I remember seeing House of Wax in a movie theater. I think it was the Madison but I'm not positive. Imdb dates this movie at 1953. I didn't see it that year. I saw it at a later date than that. Does anyone know when House of Wax was re-released to one of the movie theaters in Ridgewood?

I posted this ad on the Ridgewood site of the 1971 re-release
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/TheBoyFriend.jpg

With all these corpses, I guess this is fitting for the RKO Madison, considering we all heard Mae West's corpse was in the balcony of the Madison Theater not too long ago....

Robert....I missed your ad in the Ridgewood Theater section. I'm thinking more like the late 50's or possibly the early 60's at the latest. By 1971, that movie wouldn't have been very scary to me. Maybe an old ad will turn up for it.

Lucy and Bob Hope were huge stars when they did this RKO tour in 1963. Until it came out on DVD this film was never revived in repertory houses.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/CriticsChoice.jpg

Another fun double bill at the Madison
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/LostWorld.jpg

RobertR, I think I saw that version of "The Lost World" on TV in fall 1963, on the "NBC Monday Night At The Movies", 9-11 p.m., a half hour after the end of "The Outer Limits" on ABC. Unlike the silent Willis O'Brien version of the late 1920's, it had sound, it had color, it had LIZARDS !

No matter how much you enlarge or slow down or put extra fins and spikes on a lizard, it still doesn't look like a dinosaur !

How about "The Lost Continent" on Million Dollar Movie on Channel 9, with Cesar Romero (The Joker on the Adam West / Burt Ward "Batman")and Sid Melton (Charlie Halpern, of "The Danny Thomas Show") gored by a triceratops right before the end, before they get rescued (?)

The TAMI show (in the miracle of Electronovision) plus Muscle Beach Party
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/rock.jpg

The Cesar Romero / Sid Melton dinosaur movie was titled "Lost Continent" and dates from 1951.

At one time i lived on Grove st between myrtle and Wykoff. I had a blast at the UA Ridgewood when they were showing Saturday Night Fever. I knew the district manager and he gave me carte blanch to seeing movies there. One day however I walked past the old RKO Madison before any retail stores were built. There was an open gate in the back that led up to the fire stairs. From there i was able to get up on the roof and in to the projection booth. There were work lights on in the inside so I was able to see around and the lights in the foyer ways were also lit and thank goodness they were. Because at one point i thought I saw a statue of a dog sitting. To my dismay it was a real doberman showing teeth. I slowly was looking for a way out and found my self in the mens room. The windows had steel gratings on them but I was able to take a coin and remove some screws and got the window open and it was right on top of the Marquee. I jumped down but then I had noway to get off of it. There was a diner across the street and finaly got someone to call the fire department and they came and set up a ladder and I came down. Good thing the NYPD didn't show up or I may have gotten hit for trespassing. But from what I saw of the theatre it will always be an image in my mind of a beautifull place going no where.

Yes. The men's room window was on the west side of the face of the building. I remember it well. East Coast Rocker, I'm glad the doberman didn't chomp into you. Thanks for posting on this page. Now I know that you, like me, once lived in Ridgewood. A friend from parochial school (St. Brigid) whom I re-established personal contact with thirteen months ago, thanks to this website, specifically, the Ridgewood Theater page, used to live on Grove between Myrtle and Wyckoff, near the "dummy tracks", until about 1971.

LOL P. I know what you mean. I just found a woman on the NY Academy of Music page with whom I knew her father who was the DM for the UA theatres in the 5 boroughs. This has turned out to be more then a treasure for sure. I grew up in Coney Island but as i said I lived in the Brooklyn section of Ridgewood. Sometimes thread drift can be a good thing don't ya think? I am so glad I found CT. I live in Southern Maryland now but sometimes I feel like driving up there but then again what is up there for me. With the price of gas and tolls as they are I guess i am better off living those memories in my head and through others who post here. It hurts to read about places i grew up with or had been to and find out they are a retail store or like the Academy torn to the ground.

To everyone else here I just want to say a BIG HELLO to all of you and just keep on writing. I also want to add to a comment I read last night about July 13th 1977. I just got home that morning after going out to Chicago for a week. I got back that morning to the PABT and took the subway home. I remember that day real well cause i got a phone call that woke me up asking me if i had lights at my place. I remember all the looting in the Bed Sty, Williamsburg and Ridgewood sections of Brookly as well as the 6 people who were stuck high atop of the Astro Tower in Coney Island. They were stuck up there for hours till the owners in conjunction with the NYPD and NYFD and a genorator that was ample to run the lift motors were found. Since that night Astroland has aquired 2 large power generators and has been using them ever since.

Yes, East Coast Rocker, CT is a great place to make and rap with e-pals. Yes, thread drift can sometimes be a good thing. BTW, Ridgewood is almost totally in Queens, although, like Bushwick, it sits on the Brooklyn-Queens border.

The July 13 1977 blackout devastated Bushwick, but the National Guard was stationed on Myrtle Avenue in Ridgewood so none of the stores there were looted. I was working in Auburn / Lewiston, Maine, at the time. My parents told me everything over the phone.

My best friend works in Chicago, and has lived there and in the Chicago area since August 1980. I first visited him there two months later. He's been there half our lives, to date, so Chicago is almost as much home to me as NYC and vicinity.

There may be more waiting for you here than you think, that would make a trip from southern Maryland worthwhile. If you don't want to drive, fly or take a train.

To promote his new film "The Ladies Man," Jerry Lewis appeared on stage at this theater on July 13, 1961.

Bob Furmanek, thanks for the factoid about Jerry Lewis !

Here's an aerial view of the Madison Theater. Notice how, like the Ridgewood Theater, only the former lobby area is actually in line with all the other stores on Myrtle Ave, with the bulk of the Theater auditorium behind all the stores facing Madison St. The former Facade of the Madison has the large "Liberty Dept Store" sign on it:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.699207~-73.908803&style=o&lvl=2&scene=1957334

Thanks, Bway. Both the Ridgewood and Madison Theaters lie along Madison Street, albeit on opposite sides of both Madison Street and Myrtle Avenue. If you check it, you will find that the RKO Bushwick lies along Madison Street as well.

I did NOT go into the Liberty Dept. Store that the Madison has become, today. I was last in there on Wednesday July 24, 2002 to buy T-shirts, for my dad, which I ended up wearing instead.

Peter, if you scroll down on the local.live image, along Madison St, you will notice how close the two theaters were actually to eachother, even though their facades on Myrtle Ave seem so far away from eachother. It's funny, because the Madison goes eastward twoards Madison St, with it's back there, and the Ridgewood runs sort of Westward to Madison St. When you look at their backs, they are very close together. The aerial photos give a compeltely different impression than walking on the ground does. it's completely not noticable on the ground.
And interestingly, you are also correct, the back of the RKO Bushwick is ALSO along Madison St!! The only difference with that theater is that you got a perspective on it's size easily from the street, as it's auditorium wasn't hidden behind other stores like the Madison and the Ridgewood's are. The Bushwick lets it all hang out on it's small triangular block bounded by Bway, Howard, and Madison St.

Bway, thanks for pointing that out about the RKO Bushwick, that it sits on its own little block, its true size unobscured by adjacent buildings. One gets a good impression of its true size walking around the sides and back of it, on Howard Avenue and then Madison Street. It also looks ominous and creepy in its pre-renovation condition, from those points of view, in those shots of it at dusk from Matthew Melnick's "Lost Brooklyn Trips" website.

Yet, one gets a good idea of the Ridgewood's true size from Cypress Avenue and Madison Street, and of the Madison, both from Madison Street, and from Wyckoff Avenue, looking at it across that parking lot.

Yes, that is very true. While all three were vast and huge theaters, I believe the Madison was the biggest of those three. The Madison was perhaps one of the largest non-Manhattan theaters. It was/is huge. I am sure it may not be "the" largest in Brooklyn or Queens, but it's certainly one of them!

Good point, and good question ! Which was the largest, not necessarily in terms of total number of seats, but in area or volume ? Aerial photos with scales would be a big help in judging that. A few that come to mind besides the RKO Madison are the Valencia, and the other four "wonder theaters" that opened in 1929-30, and Loew's Oriental in Bensonhurst.

The Madison was never ranked as a Queens theatre because historians considered it as being in Brooklyn since it was always advertised that way. But if you want to consider the Madison as a Queens theatre, it was smaller in seating capacity than Loew's Valencia, Loew's Triboro, RKO Keith's Flushing, and the Astoria Theatre, which were the largest in that order. Photos can be deceiving, and I don't think it's possible to say which theatre was the largest in bulk unless you have the actual physical dimensions for all of them. Brooklyn had more large theatres than Queens, so the Madison would be further down the list for that borough.

Thanks, Warren, I was thinking of Brooklyn and Queens collectively.
I was also thinking that some physical dimensions could be carefully scaled from an aerial photo.

Well, like I said, not "the" biggest, but certainly up there.
The famous Brooklyn-Queens debate too....regardless of how both the Ridgewood and Madison were always marketed and listed as theaters, both were, and always were in Queens. The Madison can see the border....but it's on the Queens side! And the Ridgewood is not even a question.

Just to put my two cents in. I never thought of the Madison as a Brooklyn theater. I remember the Miss Ridgewood contests that were held there and I thought it unfair that a professional from an entirely different state and not Ridgewood won the contest. Many of my friends were entered in it and several others that I recognized. They were all from Queens.

In the 60's some German organization used to use the Madison theater for some sort of function. I remember seeing an ad for it somewhere, and it was "RKO Madison Theater, Ridgewood, Queens. I don't remember where I saw it though.

Thats what I was saying in the Ridgewood theater section. The Madison was the theater that held "special events" and was more community oriented than the Ridgewood theater.

Spend New Year's Eve (1949) at RKO. Please note that the Madison and several other theatres listed in the ad also had stage presentations:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/rkonye.jpg

Thanks for posting the link, Warren. My dad remembers those RKO Madison stage presentations well, including the then-controversial film "Pinky" being introduced live on stage at the RKO Madison by none other than Ed Sullivan, Mr. "Rilly Big Shew" himself.

My dad also remembers attending live Shakespeare at the RKO Madison.

PKoch,

See message of Oct 3, 2004. Ask your dad if he remembers this incident. It was so monumental at the time, but only about four old friends remember it. In the meantime I lost my password and have since rejoined. The post name then was bobmc.

Rapid Robert, I will ask him about it this weekend !

Rapid Robert, I asked my dad yesterday, and he does not remember Dracula attacking a heroine in bed being enacted live on the stage of the RKO Madison Theater.

Anyone ever heard of a Liberty Square Theater? Location given was Lefferts Avenue but that could be Lefferts Boulevard. This theater could have been operating in the 1910's and I'm not sure if its listed here under another name.

Never mind, I found it. The Liberty Square Theater is mentioned on the richmondhillhistory.org website. It shows a Liberty Square Theater at 304 Lefferts Avenue. Thats an old address. I'm not sure what the modern address would be. I tried to map 103-04 Lefferts Boulevard and that would place this theater between 103rd Ave and Liberty Ave. Thats considered South Richmond Hill so its possible it was located near Liberty Ave. Anyone know how to convert old addresses to modern ones?

Perhaps Bway could be of some help to you.

If you assume Lefferts Avenue began (had its north end) at Kew Gardens Road as Lefferts Boulevard currently does, you can work south from there by blocks to the approximate location of the old address 304 Lefferts Avenue.

Also, perhaps Bway or others can guide you to links for some older Queens maps that pre-date the current address and lot numbering system.

There are alot of variables involved here. How many lots are on each block? Some of those blocks are different lengths. Also, did Lefferts Avenue run the same distance as the current Lefferts Boulevard runs? I just took a guess at the address and it happened to map near Liberty Ave which I thought was convenient since that was the name of the theater. Actually the name of the theater made me think that it was located near the intersection of Myrtle Ave/Lefferts Blvd/Bessemer St. There is no "square" located there but they do form sort of a triangle. This is a 1905 real estate map which hasn't been much help so far.

Could Liberty Square have once been the intersection of Lefferts Avenue and Liberty Avenue ?

Thats a possibility Peter. This theater was open in the mid teens and I have no idea what the layout of that area was at the time. I like the idea of the theater being near Liberty Ave because that would explain its name. To place this theater on Liberty and Lefferts, the address would have to be 104-02 or 104-04 Lefferts Blvd. I can't add a theater with a hypothetical address. If I don't find a way to convert the old address, I'll just add this theater with no address. You would think that there would be a conversion chart available for these old addresses, but I haven't come across one yet.

There should be a conversion chart, but there probably isn't one. The problem is, just as screwy as the Queens street numbering is, I am sure the address numbering is even more screwy, so there's probably no set way to convert the addresses.
I would just enter it with the street, and no number, as you can't use the old number as it's not accurate. Perhaps after it has it's own section, we will find more information about it.

You would think that they would have kept a record of the blocks that were renumbered in Queens. Maybe they did and we just haven't found them yet.

Lost Memory, you could always enter the old address for it, with a note explaining that it IS the old address, and that you're not sure what the new address would be. The old address was, after all, the correct address of the theater when it existed.

Thats pretty much what I did Peter. I submitted it with no address and mentioned the old address in the description. Either the individual towns or Queens county should have a listing of these address changes. They are probably not available online. There are other silent theaters listed on the Richmond Hill website. All with "old" addresses. Besides the address problem, I'm not sure if any of these theaters are listed here under other names or were they just short lived theaters.

Good work, Lost Memory !

Sounds good. As long as it's not in the address at the top of the page, because otherwise the "google maps" thing won't work, and show the wrong location.

Sometimes the google thing doesn't give the correct location, even IF the correct address has been entered !

Bway....Those Google maps don't work right anyway. Some Brooklyn theaters show up on a map of Cambodia. LOL

The other theaters listed on the Richmond Hill website pose a slight problem. The information on those theaters was provided by CJDV. Now, I found the Liberty Square theater on another site and then found it on the Richmond Hill site while researching it. I have no problem taking credit for that theater but I can't just copy those other theaters and submit them here with my name. I don't believe that would be the right thing to do. If I could convert the old addresses to modern addresses, then I am adding something and I could submit them here and give CJDV credit. I'll give you an example of one of the addresses. What would 2125 Jamaica Avenue be in a modern address?

Haven't a clue. And unfortunately have no way to know how to convert it.

I added a one to the address and tried mapping it with Google. It returned the following locating:
12125 Jamaica Ave
Queens, NY 11418

Guess what? That address is in Richmond Hill about two blocks from Lefferts Blvd. It can't be that simple, can it? I was also trying to find other theaters located on Jamaica Ave that are listed on here and see if any of them mentioned their old address and use that as a guide. I think we did something like that with the Ritz theater on Myrtle Ave.

Haha. I don't think it could be that easy, but hey, you never know. Of course the first three numbers in a "new" Queens address is the nearest cross Street (so of course, since 121st St is in Richmond Hill, and of the addresses within that block would begin with "121").

Yeah, that was probably dumb luck, but it does map nicely. :) I understand how the modern addresses work with the first three numbers being the cross street and the last two numbers being the actual building number. I wonder if there is any correlation between the old numbers and the new numbers. They might have nothing to do with each other and in that case, there is no solution to this without a chart from the city.

Your last sentence is what I am afraid of. It was probably different for every street converted. For example, take the Madison...it is current 54-XX, but was probably either 2XXX or 1XXX something before the conversion, cusideriing that as soon as you cross the QUeens-Brooklyn border a few hundred feet away, Myrtle Ave's numbers go into the 1XXX series.

The 2125 address could be the two thousand, one hundred and twenty fifth lot from the start of Jamaica Ave. Actually you would divide that number by two since its odd numbers on one side and even on the other. Anyone feel in the mood to count buildings on Jamaica Ave? Never mind. There is another theater on the list that might be easier to find. It has a location and not an address. The location was Oxford Avenue & Jamaica Avenue. According to a street name change list (say that three times fast), Oxford became 104th St. Now Jamaica Ave and 104th Street will map as Richmond Hill. So the address could be 104-xx. All we need is to fill in the two xx's. Piece of cake, right. Maybe one of those aerial photos would help.

Lost, maybe you should move this to the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill Theater section, you might get more people familiar with Richmond Hill there.
At least you narrowed it down to "104-something".

A property search shows a corner store with the address of 104-02 Jamaica Ave. No specific build date given. It just shows that it was built prior to 1930. For some reason, I can't find any odd addresses on the other side of the street. Maybe there aren't any buildings there. On one of the property deeds it shows that 104th St was formerly known as Wyckoff Ave, and also formerly known as Oxford Ave. 104-02 Jamaica Ave is a prime candidate for its location. The Google maps are a little quirky but they do have one nice feature. You can switch to a satellite view and see the actual buildings located there. I have a few more things to check, but I'll most likely submit the theater with no address since I can't be 100% sure this was the address.

Lost Memory, it may help to identify the highest house or lot number on the portion of Jamaica Avenue in Brooklyn, at its eastern end at Elderts Lane at the Bklyn-Queens border. Then, going from Elderts Lane to 75th Street, you can see the jump between the original lot numbering and the Queens lot numbering.

104th Street as Oxford Avenue makes more sense to me than Wyckoff Avenue, and can be found on the older subway maps (same as 111th Street = Greenwood Avenue) though who knows exactly where the Wyckoff farm(s) was/were ?

All those Richmond Hill streets that are now numbered, used to be named. The last time I was in the Triangle Hofbrau Restaurant in Richmond Hill, Friday November 11, 1994, a friend who was dining there with me showed me a map of Richmond Hill on the wall, done as an aerial perspective, which showed all the original names of the now-numbered streets. I do not know what has happened to that map, or if it showed a Liberty Square.

Perhaps Dennis Doyle of the Richmond Hill Historical Society could help. I used to have the link; perhaps Bway could still furnish it to you.

I have an old map of Queens somewhere, pre street name change). I haven't a clue where it is off hand, but one day when I have time, I will look for it.

Peter.....The Richmond Hill Historical Society is the site where these theaters are listed with the old addresses. You would think that the Richmond Hill Historical Society could have added the modern addresses to these theaters. Maybe they have no idea what the modern address would be either. And on their website it also claims that 104th St was formerly known as both Wyckoff Ave. and Oxford Ave.

Just to add, that's one of the reasons they had to change a lot of the names. When all the various towns combined in QUeens, you sometimes had let's say 4 "Maple Sts", or 4 "4th Streets", and none of them were connected or even near each other.
I hate the fact that Queens lost all it's street names (unlike Brooklyn), but I can see why they may have felt the need to do it.

In August, 1926, the newsletter of the Queensboro Chamber of Commerce reported: "Our Civic Theater, located at Liberty Avenue and 114th Street, South Richmond Hill, was built four years ago and has a seating capacity of 1,000. It is owned by Our Civic Theater, Inc. (Julius Euekis, Pres.), and managed by W.R. George. It presents a program of feature pictures, news reels and comedies. An orchestra furnishes the music." The newsletter states that Julius Euekis is also president of Lefferts Amusement Corp., which owns the Lefferts Theater at Liberty Avenue & 122nd Street in South Richmond Hill.

Hmmm, that seems to help a lot. Not that it gives the "new version" of the Queens address, but it does place where it was....within the four corners anyway.
I still think it would be of more help to talk about this in the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill Theater section though, as I think you will have a lot more Richmond Hill people that can help checking that page than the RKO Madison Theater page.....

Lost Memory;
Someone just told me out about this thread.When I lectured for the Richmond Hill Historical Society several years ago, I gave the audience a list of local theatres from the American Motion Picture Directory 1914/15 and the Film Daily Yearbook 1941.
The Directory lists a Library Square Theatre not Liberty. Don't know how or when it was changed to the Liberty on the website.
According to Nancy Cataldi, of the Richmond Hill Historical Society,the area surrounding the library before they expanded hillside avenue was called Library Square. She even has a post card of this theatre.
In any case, Nancy believes the theatre was a few storefronts away from the Republican Club, 86-15 Lefferts Blvd. going towards Jamaica Avenue. The building/site could be the car repair shop or the hair salon (according to Nancy).
The one theatre on the 1914/15 list to make it to 1941 was the Garden. There is a Lefferts Theatre listed in 41.
The one theatre left off the website from the 1914 Directory was the Maple aka Cedar aka Richmond Hill. The building was still there a few years ago at 112-21 Jamaica Avenue.
The one theatre that did not make it to the 1914 list was the Owl which opened in 1910 at 112-16 Jamaica. It is sometimes mistaken for the Maple, Cedar. Richmond Hill mentioned above. I've been told that the building survives by several local people but another theatre historian says it is not the same building.
Hope that answers all your questions. Will get back to the Wilson later as well as the Sparta Hotel theatre which I believe you mentioned elsewhere.

And low and behold, the corner of 114th and Liberty....a theater building still exists on the southwest corner:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.68531~-73.828558&style=o&lvl=2&scene=2003182

Also, another theater at the corner of 122nd St and Liberty Ave....also still existing, and we even have a business!! Kid City and Rite Aide....Lostmemory....I think an address is immenant.....

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.687031~-73.820882&style=o&lvl=2&scene=2004672

The second photo with Kid City & Rite Aid shows the onetime Lefferts Theatre.

Warren and Lost, it appears that the Rite Aide appears to be in the location of the old lobby entrance for the old Lefferts Theater, so whatever the Rite Aide's address is should probably be the "new" Queens address that should be used for the Lefferts section on this site.
It amazes me that a theater of this size (from what it appears to be in the photo) was missed until now to add to the site. It appears hard to miss!! I can understand some of the now gone or smaller theater being missed, but this one appears to be a large theater, again, hard to miss.

And here the address is....drum roll.....
Rite Aid
122-02 Liberty Avenue
Richmond Hill, NY 11418

We found the proper address for the Lefferts Theater.

Jeez guys, I didn't realize the Lefferts was already listed on the site:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/4686/

As for the Liberty Square theater...Unfortunately, the el is in the way, so we can't tell the business that's there without someone taking a "road trip" to get what the address is.
At least we know what corner it is on, and that the building still exists.

Wow, this is great. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning and I don't know which package to open first. :)

cjdv....I already submitted the Library Square theater as the Liberty Square theater but that can be fixed later on. I wrote in one of the comments above: "Actually the name of the theater made me think that it was located near the intersection of Myrtle Ave/Lefferts Blvd/Bessemer St. There is no "square" located there but they do form sort of a triangle". Being located near 86-15 Lefferts Blvd would place the Library Square theater right near that intersection. I did a quick real estate search and Ms. Cataldi is probably right. I can only find two properties large enough for a movie theater near 86-15 Lefferts Blvd. One would be 86-25 Lefferts Boulevard and the other would be 86-35 Lefferts Boulevard which should be the auto repair/body shop. There are no specific build dates given for either building which is typical of some Queens buildings. Both are listed as being built prior to 1931. I'll check out the other addresses and see what I can find. And I believe that the Sparta Hotel theater was a real theater. Its name caught my attention along with the Sohmer’s Highway theater.

Warren....I don't believe that the "Our Civic Theater" is related to any of these other theaters being discussed here. It looks like you found another missing theater. You should submit it to C.T.

Bway....Can you pull up an aerial map that would include 86-25 and 86-35 Lefferts Blvd? I want to see what those two buildings look like. Maybe we can determine which of them was the actual Library Square theater if the building is still standing.

Bway....In the photo that you posted above of 114th and Liberty Ave, are you referring to that large building with the white writing or graffiti on the front up near the roof? Using Google and its satellite photo, I mapped that building as 113-18 Liberty Avenue. A real estate search gives a build date of 1922 for that address. That would fit the dates for the "Our Civic Theater". A 1926 news letter stating that the building was built 4 years ago.

Guess what guys, there was a theater located at 113-18 Liberty Avenue. Only one problem. Its already listed on here as the Casino theater. Look on the bright side, we now know that the Casino theater building was built in 1922. The next question is, did the "Our Civic Theater" become the Casino theater.

Lost, here's the link to those buildings. They are buildings that look like they could be a theater. I am not sure which is which in terms of address, as local live didn't find either of those addresses, I had to manual get to the block you told me it was in between.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.700697~-73.83108&style=o&lvl=2&scene=1996028

For perspective, this is facing east. The RKO Keith's Richmond Hill Theater would be below, if you scroll downwards. The RKO is right next to that LIRR line, and the former Richmond Hill LIRR station (abandoned) seen in the photo

Thanks Bway. These are the addresses that NYC lists for that block. Going from left to right in the above photo:

86-15 Indoor Public Assembly
86-17 Residential
86-21 Walk Up Apt
86-25 Store Building
86-35 Garage
86-37 Hospital, Health Care Facility

We assume that it would be the larger building, but maybe its one of the smaller buildings. My personal favorite is the long narrow building to the left of the blue tarp.

Are you sure you aren't going from right to left?
Remember, north is not on top in this angle, east is.

Which way is north? I'm just your everyday average genius, I'm not a map reader. LOL Anyway, I still like the building next to the blue tarp whatever its address might be. The Library Square is now listed so you should post that map link in there.

At the left of the photo is a little direction thingie that will tell you which way is north/south, etc. I put east on top, as it showed the buildings best.

I'll move the conversation to the Liberty Square section.

"I'll move the conversation to the Liberty Square section."

....well I would if I could, but I can't find it, do you have a link?

I might not be able to read a map but at least I can find a theater. LOL Heres the link:

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/16439/

I'm still laughing.

Hahaha. Duh, on me, I was looking for "Liberty" Square. Sorry for the confusion.

If the lady could scan the postcard picture and put it on the Richmond Hill website, that might help to identify the building.

The Lefferts Theater is already listed on Cinema Treasures. There are two Garden theaters listed for Kew Gardens and one for Springfield Gardens but none for Richmond Hill, unless it is listed here under another name. I don't see the Maple theater or Owl theater listed so I will write those up and submit them. Before I submit the Maple theater, what was the last name it was known as. Was it Maple theater or Richmond Hill theater?

Actually, someone just informed me that there is a Garden theater listed for Richmond Hill, right Bway. LOL

In one of the comments above, I write "The Google maps are a little quirky but they do have one nice feature. You can switch to a satellite view and see the actual buildings located there". Use the satellite view with caution. Anyone know how old those satellite maps are? I was researching a theater in North Carolina. The chamber of commerce claimed that the theater was demolished and replaced by a park two years ago. The Google satellite view showed a building still standing there. So, I mapped my home address on Google and switched to the satellite view. The house across the street from my house was missing on the satellite view. That house was built almost four years ago. Don't bet the farm on the accuracy of those maps!

Thanks for the advice, Lost Memory. I've seen many errors on Google maps myself.

And Windows Local Live views are copyrighted 2005, so beware of the age of those images as well.

Lost, I also have noticed that those satelite images are a little old on Google. It's like you can read my mind, I also mapped my home about a week or two ago, and the Google Earth image I would date to about 4 years ago also, going by the houses built near by, or other conditions. I can take it one step further though! While the "Bird's Eye" photos on local.live of NYC I date to about 2003 (going by the RKO Bushwick reconstruction going on in one view, and various buildings missing or under construction. However, their satelite views are even older than Google Earth! There's a home about a block away from my home that was built about 7 years ago (yes, it was around 1998 or 1999 that it was built, and that lot is still wooded land yet in the image! So that would have to date the local.live satelite image to some time pre-1999!!!

Bway....I wish that I could read peoples minds but I have trouble reading my own mind. :) Its a shame that those photos aren't up to date. They could be good research tools. The least Google could do is put a date on those satellite photos to avoid this confusion. They do help to identify theaters that are still standing, but they are worthless to determine if a building has been demolished in the past few years.

Bway, Lost Memory, have you e-mailed Google yet about this problem of the date of their on-line aerial photos ?

It wouldn't do any good, as they would have to be retaken. I don't know how often satelite images are taken, or photos such as those "Bird's Eye" photos are taken. It's not "Google" that take the photos I don't think, I think they buy the rights to them, and they use the most current available to them. Which in some areas may have been taken last month, but other areas 3 years ago, and others still perhaps 5 or more years ago!

OK, point heard !

i love the pictures of the subway trains that you guys put down.and the area`s that they show

Glad you like 'em, stevel. That was the whole point of my post on nycsubway.org, "Els Showing The Cinemas", two years ago, that sometimes the best way to see these old theaters that have now closed, and are now something else, if they are still there, is in those photos of elevated lines on nycsubway.org.

Similarly, although the Fulton Street el is now gone from Brooklyn, many of the ads painted on the sides of buildings, that were meant to be seen from that el, are still there, on Fulton Street, between downtown Brooklyn (the Fulton Mall) and East NY Bway Junction, probably also on Pitkin Avenue in East NY between Van Sinderen Avenue (the L line) and Euclid Avenue, and, in Cypress Hills, on Liberty Avenue between Crescent Street and 80th Street.

Regarding the RKO Madison in Ridgewood, it would be interesting to compile all the available photographs, taken from the Wyckoff Avenue station platform of the M train (Myrtle Avenue elevated) that show the western wall of the RKO Madison Theater, with the words "RKO MADISON" painted on it in block letters, starting with the earliest, when the theater was in its best condition, then after it was closed, to see the painted words "RKO MADISON" fade, and the graffiti beneath it grow bigger and bolder. Perhaps Bway would like to do it.

In spring or summer 1976, on a visit to the World Trade Center outdoor observation deck, I used one of the 25-power pay binoculars to find and read the words "RKO MADISON" from the western wall of the Madison Theater. There was also a guy up there with a Questar telescope, reading phone numbers off billboards in Flatbush !

Once, I recall walking northwest on Wyckoff Avenue from Putnam Avenue to Palmetto Street, and seeing the Twin Towers on the horizon, in a low gap between buildings on Ridgewood Place and the Myrtle Avenue el, thereby confirming the World Trade Center to RKO Madison Theater sightline.

Back on April 26, 2006 Warren posted a message about a Our Civic theater. A few messages later, on the same date I posted "The next question is, did the "Our Civic Theater" become the Casino theater". I now believe that the answer is yes, they are one in the same theater. The theater organ website shows that a Marr & Colton organ was installed in the Our Civic (Casino) theater in 1923. Warren, you could copy and paste your comment about Our Civic theater to the Casino theater listing.

http://www.cinematreasures.org/theater/4687/

Email notification test.

The New York Times archives:

"POSTINGS: Queens Mini-mall; Multiplex Twist

By THOMAS L. WAITE
Published: November 20, 1988

LEAD: In a switch on the multiplex cinema, the old Madison Theater just reopened in Ridgewood,

Queens, with 200 ''compartment stores'' and is now known as the Busy Bee mini-mall.

In a switch on the multiplex cinema, the old Madison Theater just reopened in Ridgewood, Queens,

with 200 ''compartment stores'' and is now known as the Busy Bee mini-mall.

A Busy Bee is a souped-up flea market or a dressed-down shopping mall, depending on your outlook.

The concept, successful in Flushing, Queens, and Massapequa, L.I., brings standard signage,

promotions and Muzak to flea-market stalls. ''It's not one of those flimflam places,'' said Barry

Rothenburg, the developer. This flea market will pay taxes, offer refunds and even have a Santa.

It will also provide 400 jobs and, Mr. Rothenburg said, ''a discount place to shop.''

Most important, he said, the restoration of the theater's fanciful Baroque facade removes a

blight from Myrtle Avenue, which recently received $2.5 million in improvements paid for by the

city and local merchants.

The Madison was built in 1927 for burlesque and vaudeville and was the second largest theater in

Queens, behind the RKO Keith in Flushing.

It was being used as a retail complex when a fire gutted it a few years ago.

Mr. Rothenburg, with his father, Robert, began cleaning out the interior in May and turned it

over to Busy Bee for finishing. The project, the first for the Rothenburgs' company, Olympia

Court, cost them and Busy Bee $3.5 million, including the building's price. Busy Bee's lease of

the 40,000-square-foot building is for $20 a square foot".

Email notification test.

I might as well start now, apparently, I'll have to repost in any theater I want the email notifications to come to me again, so I might as well start here, and slowly move to others.

I think that the NYT erred in claiming that the Madison was built "for burlesque and vaudeville." The theatre was purpose-built for vaudeville and movies by B.S. Moss, who first operated it until selling his chain of theatres to RKO. To the best of my knowledge, burlesque was never presented at the Madison by Moss or RKO.

Lost, I remember the Busy Bee in between the Odd-Lot and the Liberty Dept Store. I had forgotten all about that until now! I remember shopping at that flea market when it first opened. it didn't last long.

Many newspaper articles make mistakes about these old theaters. I agree that the Madison was built for vaudeville and movies and not burlesque. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think that the building was a Consumers Distributors store, then an Odd Lot, then the Busy Bee flea market and finally the Liberty Dept store. Does that sound right to you? If that sequence is correct, then the fire occurred while it was an Odd Lot store. At least four different retailers in addition to the fire have made alterations to this building.

Lost Memory
I remember the Consumers Distributors and then the Odd Lot, after that I was never down that way again.

I was under the impression that the fire at the Madison theater occurred after the theater closed and sat vacant. The NY Times article states "It was being used as a retail complex when a fire gutted it a few years ago". That means that the seats, screen, curtains, etc did not burn and were removed prior to the fire during alterations for retail use. I wonder what happened to those items. Were they sold for use in another theater, or were they tossed in the dumpster?

Lost, I think my memory is coming back. Your assumption is correct.
The Madison Theater closed as a theater, and sat vacant for a year or so. It was THEN guttedd, and converted to a Consumers Store. I was in the Consumers once, and you could only come into the lobby area of the store. You wrote down what you wanted after looking though catalogs, gave it to a worker, and they retrieved your item. The retail part of the store looked like a normal store, with an office style drop ceiling, and sheetrock walls. No ornamentation of the theater was present. The auditorium was the warehouse part of the Consumers, and it's safe to say that nothing was done to that space other than remove the seats. It's very likely that all the stuff was stored right there in the auditorium, with the Madison Theater ornamentation all above it, in it's diamond in the rough glory. Consumers was short lived, and soon closed. I remember the Odd Lot opening, and remember going to it. The drop ceiling of the Consumers retail section was still there, and the wall was knocked down into the theater. I "think" there was a crude ceiling put up in the auditorium section, now that it was a store and not the warehouse anymore. Odd Lot lasted longer than Consumers but closed a few years later.
At that time, you are correct, THAT is when the Madison Theater burned. It was after Odd Lot closed, so it was vacant, but it WAS after the Odd Lot, not after the theater use. It didn't last too long vacant before Busy Bee moved in. That was VERY short lived from what I remembered, perhaps a year or two? I went there only once when it was the flea market, and remember very little about it.
After that, Liberty Dept Store moved in. Ironically, that's when they completely steam cleaned and repointed the face of the theater fasade, before Busy Bee moved in. Unfortunately, Liberty covered over much of the fasade with their sign. The elaborate window cornices are covered.

Great comment Bway, thank you for writing it. I think the Madison remained pretty much intact during both Consumers and Odd Lots occupation of the building. I've been trying to find out how severe the fire was but haven't been able to as of yet. Its possible that the fire was upstairs and the bottom floor might have only suffered water damage. Maybe one day I will find out.

The first c/o for this address that I can find after the estimated closing year of 1978 is dated May 2, 1980. First floor listed as a retail store, probably Consumers, and the second floor is listed as vacant. In May of 1990, a permit was issued to "Change 2nd Floor from Vacant to Retail Sales". Could that permit be for the flea market?

I don't remember if the flea market occupied the upper level. Truth be told, I don't think the flea market compartment store was all that successful. If the upstairs balocny was also used fo rht eflea market, it was either very short lived, or they never were successful enough to get that far to use the upstairs. I am not sure. I am sure though that it was at least probably planned that the flea market would occupy both the upstairs and main level. Whether it ever happened, I am not sure.

The flea market might have applied for the permit but never did the actual construction work. There is a very good chance that the original walls are intact behind that sheetrock. Same thing for the ceiling. Maybe one day it could open again with multiple screens.

I am sure much of the ceiling of the main auditorium survives, and is obviously still there, probably sooted up, and since the plaster is not maintained, who knows what condtion it is in.

Once, I recall walking northwest on Wyckoff Avenue from Putnam Avenue to Palmetto Street, and seeing the Twin Towers on the horizon, in a low gap between buildings on Ridgewood Place and the Myrtle Avenue el, thereby confirming the World Trade Center to RKO Madison Theater sightline.
posted by PKoch on May 16, 2006 at 9:08am

thats real cool

do any of you guys have any pictures of the old Oasis theater on Fresh Pond rd in Maspeth Queens.i would love to see an old picture of that one.(also the Arion on metropolitan ave. what town was the arion in

The Arion was in Middle Village

Steve, if you scroll through the listing for the Oasis Theatre, you will find some interior photos that I posted there.

I don't want to start any controversy, but the Oasis theater was in Ridgewood.

Real cool ? Glad you liked it, stevel.

Now, thanks to 9/11, there are no longer any Twin Towers, and, as most of us know, the once great and beautiful RKO Madison Theater is now a Liberty Department Store.

Sic transit gloria Ridgewood.

Re : RKO Madison Theater closing, last film date :

I reviewed Christina Wilkinson's Forgotten NY article on Ridgewood on August 1, 2005 and directly e-mailed her my comments within a few days afterward. One of them was pretty much what I posted above. I've looked at her article a few times since then and she apparently has not made changes to her article based on my comments.

So I propose we continue with our plans to scan newspaper ads to find out exactly when the RKO Madison Theater showed its last film.

This is something I wish I knew, but do not, as I wish in retrospect I had been more observant, passing the RKO Madison at least ten times a week, walking from home to the subway at Myrtle and Wyckoff in the morning, and vice versa in the evening, every weekday, in commuting from my Ridgewood home to school in Manhattan.

One would think I would remember the date, or at least the week or month, the RKO Madison showed its last film, but I do not. Mea culpa.

Pending further evidence, I will assume Halloween 1977 as the date of that last film.

The mind boggles at the comparison between the tragedy of 9/11/2001 and the transformation of the Madison Theatre into a retail store!!!

Yes, that is quite a difference, Warren ! You've caught me in one of my rhetorical devices : mentioning in the same sentence, two things between which there really is no comparison, to provoke some thought.

However, my current interest in the RKO Madison is that search of archived newspaper movie ads starting with October 1977 to determine exactly when it showed its last film.

Silly me. I posted on what I thought was the RKO Madison site today, only to learn from Lost Memory that there was also a Madison theater in Brooklyn near the RKO Bushwick. Live & learn...

Bway (in '04) and PKoch (recently) remarked in their posts about the very faded painted ad on the Madison's wall, barely visible from street level or frm the Wyckoff Ave. station of the M line. I mentioned in the other "Madison" post that I have a VHS tape from Sunday River Productions in MA which shows that whole scene clearly as the old gate cars swung left onto Palmetto St. toward Seneca Ave. station. The painted ad is vivid and extremely eye-catching. (It's called "NY Els of the 1950s." Retails new at $39.95, but a good used copy can be obtained on eBay usually for less than $10 - well worth it for the memories.)

"Psycho" was my introduction to the RKO Madison during the summer of '60. A neighbor who unfortunately couldn't decipher weekend movie start times in the local newspaper got us there and parted the black curtains to get to our seats just in time for the ear-shattering sounds and gut-wrenching sights of Hitchcock's infamous shower scene. To this day, while viewing the DVD or tape, I always remember that scene as the beginning. Impressionable minds, they say...Ha!

BrooklynJim....In the VHS tape that you have of the ad on the wall of the Madison theater, are there any other words besides Madison? Does it say RKO Madison or Madison theater or just Madison.

Lost, this is totally on memory (a lost memory perhaps, haha), but if I am not mistaken it said "Madison Theater". I am almost positive that it said "Theater", and I don't think it had RKO on it.

Now for this "Madison Theater" at Broadway and Madison in Bushwick. Is this that theater we were talking about way back when somewhere on the this site! Lo and behold, a theater I never knew was added! I will go look for it now! I remember we all talked about this a long time ago.

I wonder why the Keith's theater in Flushing and this Madison theater didn't use RKO on the sign. You could squeeze those three letters in if you wanted to. Your thinking of the right Madison theater on Broadway, Bway. We were trying to figure out how that Madison theater could fit next to the RKO Bushwick on that small triangle. Apparently it did fit.

pkoch

you are right about 1977...that's when it did close...

my grandmother use to see live shows there..she saw martha ray live on stage..when my mom was in her teens...my grandmother took me
for sat mats. after working with ua for many years i worked at the rkocoliseum 181st. i think i was the last manager at the madison..
after it closed i went to rko fordham...on the marquee at the coliseum it said Radio Kieth Orpheum ie:rko
rko was around so long around town people never called it by the theatres name.."HEY LET'S GO TO THE RKO"> I SAW STAR WARS..WHERE DID YOU SEE IT.???I SAW IT AT THE RKO...
MORE LATER
WALL1975

Lost Memory, I'll run the tape this evening, freeze frame that ad and post tomorrow as to how it read...

OK, Lost Memory. My local library is open until 8:00 tonight (PDT), so I'm able to reply with your requested info now. (As you may or may not know, my PC committed suicide via electrocution a few years ago, and I've never had the heart to adopt another. Thus, BrooklnJim writes to you courtesy of Ahnold's California taxpayers.)

The Madison building was brown brick. As the old gate cars swing left 90 degrees out of the Wyckoff Ave. station, one can glimpse clearly on the tape for a second or two a white sign with big letters on a black background:

R. K. O.

MADISON

Theatre

Unfortunately, the marquee is blocked by the el's signal tower. Then it's off to the Fresh Pond yards and Metropolitan Ave.'s old wooden station prior to Christ the King H.S. being built there, probably 1957. The "vivid color" I posted about earlier comes more from a red and white Household Finance Co. sign in the foreground on the corner. Sorry 'bout that. Photog Frank Pfuhler Jr. (a great German name that certainly must be revered in the hallowed halls of Ridgewood hofbraus!) shot these nostalgic motion pictures between '55 & '57 and did a most impressive job.

If you wish, go to:

http://www.sundayriverproductions.com

Click on "Electrics" and check out the photo of an old Myrtle Ave. gate car next to the "New York's Elevateds" entry. At the very worst, request a color catalog from owner Alva Morrison before he croaks. The catalog is a keeper. Hope this info helps!

P.S.: There's a young black female conductor on the modern M train who desperately needs to know that "WYCKOFF" is pronounced "Why-Cough," not "Whack-Off!" Another graduate of the Berlitz School of Ebonics...

Thanks BrooklynJim. Are you sure it reads RKO? Other people on here believe that it only reads Madison Theater. If you want to see some photos of the Myrtle Ave line, go to this website and click on which station you want.

Appreciated the link, Lost Memory. As a NYC railfan, (as well as being a movie and theater buff,) I've always enjoyed the photography of Joe Testagrose and the transit gems from his extensive files. But as for "R.K.O.," complete with a period after each letter, it is there in the mid-'50s on the very top line in big white letters. (The theater owners may have painted over it down the line, however, hence the variance in recollections.)

I believe that R.K.O. was on the sign BrooklynJim. It makes sense to me since RKO Madison was the theaters correct name. I always believed that sign was meant for the people on the elevated train. If your on street level, you can see the theater and wouldn't need the sign.

I also remember the Fresh Pond yards on Metropolitan Ave. There is/was a mall located near that train station today. Before that mall was built, subway cars were stored in that area. Also in that vicinity was Farmers Oval where I played softball as a kid. Its funny how you can remember things from years ago in detail and at the same time I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday. LOL

The mall that is on that site at the Metro Ave station was built in the early 70's for Robert Hall Village, and Bohack supermarket next door. Downstairs was Macys bargain basement where they sold floor sample furniture, etc. Robert Hall closed, and became TSS. Bohack became Waldbaums. Then, TSS closed, and became Caldor, followed by KMart. Meanwhile, they redid the downstairs, and opened up "Metro Mall" which included Pergament, and Waldbaums moved downstairs.Sears Brand Central was the other big store down there. Toys R Us moved into the Waldbaums space upstairs.

I think currently Pergament and Waldbaums both closed, were combined, and now it's a BJ's.

Farmer's Oval is still there, and alive and well. I also had many a good times in that park.

The mall that is on that site at the Metro Ave station was built in the early 70's for Robert Hall Village, and Bohack supermarket next door. Downstairs was Macys bargain basement where they sold floor sample furniture, etc. Robert Hall closed, and became TSS. Bohack became Waldbaums. Then, TSS closed, and became Caldor, followed by KMart. Meanwhile, they redid the downstairs, and opened up "Metro Mall" which included Pergament, and Waldbaums moved downstairs.Sears Brand Central was the other big store down there. Toys R Us moved into the Waldbaums space upstairs.

I think currently Pergament and Waldbaums both closed, were combined, and now it's a BJ's.

Farmer's Oval is still there, and alive and well. I also had many a good times in that park.

Thanks for the mini history of Robert Hall Village / Metro Mall, Bway. I remember it having both names. I was first there around Thanksgiving 1974. I especiallu enjoyed the panoramic view of Upper Ridgewood to the south, from the parking lot on the roof.

Yup, I remember Pergament being downstairs. That was a steep ramp going to the lower level. If I'm not mistaken, there was a little shuttle bus that would carry people that didn't have cars to the lower level.

Farmer's Oval. A blast from the past, that name - and field.

Bought a few garish sports jackets and flared pants at Times Square Stores back in '74. (Saying '74 in relation to flared pants is totally redundant, yes?)

There was also something called a "walk-a-lator", a moving inclined ramp, or escalator without steps, that moved people from the lower level to the roof.

"Saying '74 in relation to flared pants is totally redundant, yes?"

Not necessarily. It's better to over-define that to underdefine.

I wore both flared and straight-leg pants back then.

Kirk & Kim and Bardot, too! (1960):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/kkbb.jpg

Thanks, Warren.

I always liked Kim Novack as an actress. I know that she made movies prior to Pal Joey, but that is the first movie that I remember seeing Kim Novack in.

I hope that talking about Kim Novack isn't off topic, I wouldn't want Warren to alert the web police and have me fined for committing this major offense against mankind.

How about Kim Novak in Hitchcock's "Vertigo" ?

I've seen the movie Vertigo a number of times but never in a movie theater. Another movie that I enjoyed with Kim Novack was Bell, Book and Candle with Jimmy Stewart.

I started watching "Bell, Book and Candle" once on "The Late Show". I vaguely remember Jimmy Stewart dancing through the street and using his magic to turn streetlights on and off.

i went to christ the king high school which is across from the old robert hall...they also had a police academy in that robert hall site.is the academy still there?

I also remember the police academy. Anyone know if that was for NYPD or was it for transit cops? At that time they were two seperate forces.

just throwing this out....

there was an out door theatre..my father said it was on a roof..

mae west near the madison rests at cypress hills..

there was a real nice doorman there around 77...can't remember

his name but, i remember he had one arm and would rip tickets faster

then most with two...

wally1975

Hi, I am posting for my mom, Joan Kramer. She is looking for an usher who worked at this theater in 1948-49 named William Fersching. (Not sure if last name is spelled that way). If anyone knows his whereabouts, please email me at Blickhe2000@yahoo.com, my name is Eileen. Thanks so much!

The gent who runs the website below has added some new pix (his subway/el archives now number 19 pages). Here's one of Myrtle & Wyckoff at night. Half of the RKO Madison's marquee is at far right, dead center:

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Images2/R33.9331ap.jpg

Nice photo Jim. Any idea what year the photo is from? It appears to be Christmas season. The lights above the marquee used to be strung across Myrtle ave during the holidays.

Sorry to disappoint, but that is a recent photo taken in December of 2002 (December 8, 2002) That was a nostalgia special run when they were getting rid of that type of equipment. Those were the old red trains that used to run on the #7 Flushing line.
Unfortunately, that is not a glimpse of the RKO Madison's old marquee....as it was long gone already by 2002, that's just another Christmas light.

I want a refund on that photo. I already notified the photo fraud squad and you will be hearing from my lawyer, Marrah Juana. He will sue you for everything that you have. You will lose your home and end up living in a library somewhere. LOL

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...

Also, duh! Sure woulda helped if I'd taken the time to read the write-up below the pic! Double Duh! (Must be the heat. Hafta blame something besides stoopidity!) Think I'll re-retire and write some sound bytes for SNL, the Sierra Club, etc:

"Fight Mental Health"

"More Trees, Less Bush"

Well, I actually just looked through that site a little bit, and found this photo which asnswers the question we had above a few months ago about the old, and now rapidly fading painted sign on the side of the old Madison.
It did say "RKO" in it, it said "R.K.O Madison Theatre".

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/images/myrtlewykwork.jpg

My email is turned off for this theater and I don't know why. That photo is a good find Bway. How old is that photo? The writing on the side of the Madison is very clear. I remember the shoe repair store in the lower right corner of the photo. They repaired your shoes "While You Wait". It looks like another mystery has been solved.

I am not sure how old that photo is. I would guess it's the early or mid 60's though.

Bway....In that photo, if you look down towards the street, there appears to be a man crossing the street. Are those trolley car tracks on the street or is that something else? That might help to date the photo.

I can't tell if they are trolley tracks or wires under the el. I think they are wires, but not sure.

I would guess that those are wires. They are to close together to be trolley tracks. I count 4 wires.

Great find, Bway! I'd date the photo as late '50s: the R.K.O. Madison ad on the side of the theater is a bit faded in comparison to the color shots c. 1957 taken by Frank Pfuhler, Jr.

Many trolley lines were abandoned in Brooklyn and Queens in the early 1950s. Track was either torn up or paved over. My guess is that these are electrical wires used in conjunction with the Myrtle El itself or for the el's switch tower.

Lost Memory, that shoemaker's shop on the Myrtle-Wyckoff corner showed up quite brightly and clearly in the DVD I referenced recently over on the Ridgewood page. Time frame fits, too.

SOme trivia.... If you watch the beginning of the movie Malcolm X, which was filmed at the intersection of Myrtle and Wyckoff in the early 90's, Spike Lee and Denzel Washington were both there. I watched a lot of the filming. Through the magic of Hollywood, this intersection was converted to Dudley St in Boston in the 1930's or 40's, complete with old trains on the el.
Anyway, the barber shop scene was filmed inside that shoe store building, which was made to look like a 1930's barber shop. There are also some scenes outside.....so rent Malcolm X, and it's the opening scene.

Wires huh? That makes sense. Okay, so much for the trolley theory. I figured if they were trolley tracks the photo could be early fifties before the tracks were paved over. Around what year does the HFC (Household Finance) sign start to appear on the building in these transit photos?

Good trivia Bway. Ridgewood was also used as a location for a movie before Malcolm X. Around 1985-86 it was used for Brighton Beach Memoirs.

Yes, I watched the filming of Brighton Beach Memoirs in 1985 at the Seneca Avenue station on the el. They had the whole neighborhood along Seneca Ave and Palmetto turned into 1939 Brighton Beach. It was so cool.
In 1992, or 1993, they filmed "A Stranger Among Us" at the Forest Ave station at Forest and Putnam. Melanie Grifith plays a cop that goes undercover in the Hasidic Community of Williamsburg, so they turned Forest Ave into Hasidic Williamsburg....another sight to see through the magic of Hollywood.

In 1992, Ghost was filmed at the Myrtle-Broadway station, both under the el on top of the station platforms. There's a scene when Patrick Swayze is on a J train pulling into the station (with the old Loew's Broadway Theater still standing there). Willie, the villian in the movie, gets killed and taken by demons under the Myrtle-Broadway platforms on the street...and in the early 90's the gloominess of that neighborhood was the perfect setting for that movie.

Great old picture, Bway. Thanks. Forever the Optimo Cigars sign !

I remember the "Brighton Beach Memoirs" filming at Seneca and Palmetto as being late November 1986. Yes, lots of fun !

RIDE THE OPEN AIR ELEVATED !

Planter's Peanuts, always fresh in the little glassine bag !

"Eugene, I hear the train, go meet your father !"

"Ghost" was released in summer 1990, so I would guess filming took place in 1988 or 89.

"Willie, the villain in the movie, gets killed and taken by demons under the Myrtle-Broadway platforms on the street...and in the early 90's the gloominess of that neighborhood was the perfect setting for that movie."

It sure was. A friend joked with me about it at my bachelor party in Sept. 1991 : "So the entrance to hell is three el train stops from your house ?"

Thanks for mentioning the "Malcolm X" filming at Myrtle and Wyckoff, not far from where the real Malcolm X lived and did his thing. Or was it Stokely Carmichael or H. Rap Brown ?

Peter, you are probably right. The dates blend together, I just know is twas sometime in the early 90's (or more accurately, around 1989).
Hahaha, I love your "entrance to hell" comment!! Especially back then, that spot definitely was the perfect setting for that movie.

LM, the bright red & white HFC signs started appearing in the early part of the 1960s. They opened an office on the floor I worked in the Williamburgh Savings Bank Building (now the Condo Paradise of Magic Johnson), 1 Hanson Place, Brooklyn. Even dated a cute Swedish gal from Bay Ridge who worked for HFC in '65.

Am loving the stories about the various filmings! Have seen Malcolm X, but never suspected that some of it was shot where you said. Will scan it tonight. And even Hans Jr. (or Phil or Bob) from Nagengast's Hardware related a few stories to me last March. I found it extremely ironic about turning some Forest Ave. storefronts ("A Stranger Among Us") into Jewish businesses, considering the long-time ethnic make-up of Ridgewood.

Oh, and Peter, I think it was Stymie...:)

Stymie Beard, of The Little Rascals ? What about Farina and Buckwheat ?

Bway, glad you liked my entrance to hell comment. Yes, the years run together after awhile, just like "Star Trek" or Woody Allen films ...

"I found it extremely ironic about turning some Forest Ave. storefronts ("A Stranger Among Us") into Jewish businesses, considering the long-time ethnic make-up of Ridgewood."

Yes, but most of the Myrtle Avenue storeowners in Ridgewood were German Jews, when you and I grew up there. Messrs. Gelobter and Schacne were members of Congregation Agudas Israel, 1616 Cornelia Street, on my old block.

On the other hand, I have heard stories about signs in Ridgewood atore windows, "No dogs or Jews allowed". I saw American Nazi Party members at Myrtle and Cypress in fall 1965 or spring 1966.

The nickname of the neighborhood, as told to me by a few Jewish colleagues at JHS 93 in the '60s, was "Der Bund."

With current signs such as "Delski Polski" on Forest, I think the area has been reclaimed in part. WWII is finally over. (Now if only we could bring the boys back from Iraq, but NOT one per body bag!)

Thanks for the info on the HFC sign BrooklynJim. I don't see the sign in the photo that Bway linked to, so that photo would probably be late 1950's or very early 1960's. I was just trying to narrow down the date of the photo.

Speaking of movies filmed in Ridgewood, I found the following on Imdb.

"Filming Locations for
The French Connection (1971)

Onderdonk Avenue, Ridgewood, Queens, New York City, New York, USA
Putnam Avenue, Ridgewood, Queens, New York City, New York, USA

Anyone know which scenes were shot at those two locations"?

This is the Imdb link.

I left one location out:

Forest Avenue, Ridgewood, Queens, New York City, New York, USA

Yes, I do know what scene. In French Connection, there is a car chase scene in which a car is chasing the guy on the elevated train. Most of those train scenes on the elevated were on the New Utrecht Ave El in Boro Park, although a few are under the Myrtle line at Onderdonk between Woodbine and Palmetto, under the el. The scene (again through the magic of Hollywood) has the guy chasing under the New Utrect El, and then all of a sudden crashes into a bunch of garages under the el.....the crash scene under the el is iin Ridgewood instead, on Onderdonk Ave under the M Line el.... In the scene you can just make out the double steeples of St Alyoisious Church off in the distance.

There are some other movies that I don't know the name of filmed in Ridgewood too. There was a movie with Henry Winkler in it filmed on Fresh Pond Rd (or it could have been a TV show). This was in the 80's. There was also a movie I don't know the name of filmed across from the Madison theater, in the little park they made out of Woodbine St next to the Diner.
"A Stranger Among Us" (I recommend that movie for any Ridgewood fan) in addition to being filmed mostly on Forest Ave by the el between about Woodbine to Cornelia also had one scene filmed in Bushwick at the Knickerbocker station in front of the 83rd Police precint.

A movie called "The Believers" from the 80's I believe, was filmed in front and inside the RKO Bushwick Theater in the human sacrafice on the stage of the abandoned theater scene.

"COming to America" had a few scenes filmed near the Marcy Ave station on the el (a block or two away). I forgot what street exactly (Hombolt St maybe??), but that's where Eddie Murphy's character's hovel of an apartment was really located (not Queens) as Hollywood would have us believe.

Oh! I forgot one (and I am sure many more). There was a movie that PKoch told me to rent once, but I forgot the name of it. I did rent and see it, but for the life of me can't remember the name, he will have to fill us in....but anyway, that movie was filmed in and on the roofs of the 6 family houses on Palmetto St right at the Seneca Ave station in Ridgewood also. Peter, what was the name of that movie again, I can't remember, but it was a pretty good movie.
I am sure there are many more movies.

Bway....You are the official Ridgewood, Queens movie trivia king. LOL You are incredible. I also read that an episode of The Sopranos was shot on Linden St.

"Ridgewood has also served as location shoots for numerous major motion pictures, including The French Connection, A Stranger Among Us, Brighton Beach Memoirs, Jerky Boys: The Movie, and Beat Street. In addition to these movies, The Sopranos was recently filmed on Linden Street in Ridgewood on March 9th 2006, where a neighborhood bar was blown up".

Any idea which bar on Linden St was supposedly blown up?

Haha! I forgot about the Jerky Boys! That was filmed by that bar on Fresh Pond Rd, I think it's called the Everglades Bar. it's an old "German Looking" bar.
I heard about the Sopranos episone in Ridgewood. I heard it was on Fresh Pond Rd.... But that could be another scene or episode.
I off hand, cant think of any remaining bars on Linden St. There's a lot on Fresh Pond Rd. There are a few scattered corner bars all around Ridgewood, and not just the main roads, so there could be one on Linden. I don't know of any from Forest to Fresh Pond, but there could be some going towards Woodward or Brooklyn.

The bar could have been on Fresh Pond Rd. One Wikipedia page gave Linden St as the bars location and another that I found reads "The Sopranos was recently filmed on Fresh Pond Road in Ridgewood on March 9th 2006, when a cafe next to a neighborhood bar was blown up". Wikipedia link. Movie locations are about a quarter of the way down the page.

PErhaps the corner of Linden and Fresh Pond Rd? There are a few bars if not in that intersection, very close to it.

Thats a good possibility. If the bar was located on Freshpond and Linden, in a way, both sites would be correct.This is the link that gives Linden St as the location. Again, its about a quarter of the way down the page. The two pages are very similar except for the bar location. Those sites list Phil Rizzuto and James Cagney as "Notable Ridgewood residents/former residents". I always thought that Phil Rizzuto was from Glendale.

The guy at Nagengast's had given me the exact preview location to the Spranos episode and explosion last March. It was fairly close to the el on Fresh Pond Rd., and the immediate area was to be sealed off to traffic by the 104 PCT. between 7:00 P.M. and 2:00 A.M. Call the shop for more info.

As for "The French Connection," Sal & Angie's luncheonette, with its name on the green and red Coca Cola sign above, was shot over on Onderdonk.

IMDB omitted one location: the corner of DeKalb & Wyckoff. A portion of the old bowling alley is at the left. I'd bowled there in several leagues from '62-'65, so for me it was instant deja vu.

As promised, I scanned the opening Boston scene of Spike Lee's "X" last night. Man, oh man, between the strange-looking el cars and the suggestion of a street in Boston, they had me royally "Bamboozled!" But it was definitely "the magic of Hollywood," as Bway wrote, at the intersection of Palmetto, Wyckoff and Myrtle!

"You ever pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?" - "Popeye" Doyle as the late NYPD Det. Eddie Egan to black suspect

"There was NO democracy in the cotton fields of Georgia!" - Malcolm X voiceover by Denzel Washington during credits

Sal and Angie's luncheonette in "The French Connection" was on the northeast side of Wyckoff Avenue between DeKalb and Flushing Avenues. Before Doyle and partner arrive there, you can see the B-38 DeKalb Avenue bus crossing Wyckoff Avenue behind them, heading northeast on DeKalb. They then spy on Sal and Angie Boca from the warehouse, or factory, across Wyckoff Avenue from them.

Bway, that film was "Used People", 1992 or 93, with the footage of the elevated M train, as seen from roofs of six-family houses on Palmetto St. between Cypress and Seneca Avenues.

I think Peter is right about the luncheonette. Imdb gave another location of "91 Wyckoff Avenue, Bushwick, Brooklyn, New York City, New York, USA". I believe that is the address of the luncheonette. Today, that address is listed as the Jalepeno Restaurant. The bowling alley that your thinking of Jim, was Hart Lanes.

Lost Memory, Hart Lanes -YES! Right by the Canarsie subway station at DeKalb. And Peter is correct about the Wyckoff location of Sal Boca's luncheonette. (Today it's Jalapeno Restaurant? LOL! Order extra Tapatio Sauce and Pepcid!) Thx to both of you.

LM, I'm still trying to narrow down the date of Bway's photo above, posted on 7/23. This morning I reviewed the Sunday River video in which Frank Pfuhler, Jr.'s superb movies of the Myrtle El were featured. He photographed a set of the old wooden gate cars turning left (toward Seneca Ave.) at Wyckoff and Palmetto in January, 1958, and the HFC sign, looking very new and not weatherbeaten in the slightest, is up there on the shoemaker's building. It does not appear on the same shoe-rebuilding store in Bway's pic (dead center, far right, top of second story by window).

Earlier, I mentioned that many streetcar/trolley lines were abandoned in stages during 1951. (Utica Ave. line, where the Rugby Theater shows up clearly: 3-18-51; Ocean Ave. line: spring, 1951; Vanderbilt Ave. line: summer, '51). Catenary wires were removed immediately after abandonment, but trolley tracks were either torn up or paved over up to a full year or more later, and older streetlight poles replaced with more modern ones.

So, can we safely surmise that Bway's pic can be dated between the summer of '52 (no visible tracks on Myrtle) and the summer of '57 (no HFC sign)?

Jim....The HFC sign is probably the best clue we have for identifying the year of the photo posted by Bway. Its pretty much a process of elimination. You have already done a great job by narrowing it down to 1952-57. In case your in the mood for something spicey:

Jalepeno Restaurant
91 Wyckoff Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11237-2927
(718) 418-1011

I'm not sure if they deliver. LOL

Mmmmm, it sounds like a Mexican Restaurant, and I LOVE mexican food!
Anyway, Jim, believe it or not, those el cars in that opening scene Malcolm X was a train from the NY Transit Museum, it's an old BMT train. They painted them up (at movie company expense) to look like an old Boston Train. That short scene took a weeks worth of site preparation (and who knows how much planning), and a long weekend to film! It's amazing how much time goes in to each minute of a movie....
PKoch, thanks! Yes, Used People, that's the name of the movie I was thinking of!

It is a Meican restaurant Bway, give them a call. :)

There really is no need to narrow down the year of the photo any further Jim unless you really want to. 1952-57 would mean the Madison theater was 25-30 years old at the time of the photo. That would explain why the writing on the side of the building was in pretty good condition in the photo Bway posted compared to the condition of the writing today after almost 80 years of being exposed to the elements.

"compared to the condition of the writing today after almost 80 years of being exposed to the elements."

Not to mention graffiti vandalism. I know I'm repeating myself, but I think this bears repeating : as the years have gone by, the painted block letters have faded, while the graffiti below them has become bolder, sharper, even itself graffitied over.

It would be interesting to make a short film of this. It would be like the opening of the film, "Batteries Not Included", in which you see how the old neighborhood the elderly people live in has deteriorated over the years.

You're welcome, Bway, re : Used People.

Jalapeno Restaurant at 91 Wyckoff Avenue, Hart Lanes : For Hart Street, yes, that makes sense. Going towards Flushing Avenue :

DeKalb, Hart, Suydam ....

In ten years, with increasing Arab Muslim influx :

DeKalib, Harat, Saddam ... ?

The subway cars seen in the Malcolm X movie were known as BMT "D" Type cars. They ran in the BMT subway from 1927 until 1965.

I was on the M train yesterday, and noticed there is just about NO remnant of this sign left ont he side of the building anymore. It's bare bricks. You can slightly make out an even older painting (Madison is in a different text), but it is ever so slight. Unless you really really look, it says nothing on the side anymore.

Bway, how sad !

Rode those BMT "D" Standards many times in the '50s to mid-'60s, YankeeMike. They were true workhorses, even as track cleaners in heavy blizzards (see link below). What I found amazing was the grime with which they dressed up the cars in Spike Lee's "X" - Brown Beantown Soot! (Served up with Baked Boston Scrod - I've got a great joke about scrod, but only Warren would get it. LOL!)

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Images2/AB%20Snowfighter.jpg
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Images2/AB%20Builder.jpg
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/images/museumab.jpg
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/images/standardwillyb.jpg
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/images/r27ab.jpg
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/images/abnost207.jpg

From original issue in '27, through years of daily transit commutes, hampered by rain and snow, later retired as museum pieces, used as movie props and most eventually succumbing to old age and the wreckers' torch, the BMT "D" and "AB" Standards were truly something else. "FWs," as my dear departed dad used to say...

The last link should be:

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/abnost207.jpg

The third one above (museum shot) really looks like the one Spike used for "X."

Great photos but all of them were AB's. I rode both the ABs and D types back in the 1960s and they were amoung the best subway cars made. The Ds were actually 3 car units linked together. You could walk through the 3 cars without going outside. The Ds had great acceleration. 3 D units are still owned by the MTA but sadly out of over 900 AB's made only one non-powered car (in the TA museum) still exists in NY. 2 working models are owned by a trolley museum in Conn.

YankeeMike, the ones we walked through were had those expandable diaphragms and the trucks were articulated. Here's a neat "D" photo taken below the el on MacDonald Ave. in 1975:

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Images2/bmtd-macd.jpg

BTW, the above site is worth exploring when you have some free time. :)

Yes, That photo was from an ERA fan trip. Since the tracks under the "El" are not electrified the subway cars were coupled to a diesel locomotive that towed the cars along McDonald Ave and via the now abandoned South Brooklyn Railroad as far as 2nd Ave and 39st in Sunset Park. Those are the "Museum" D type cars that were used in the Malcolm X film. Those 3 units (Each having 3 cars) are the only cars that exist from this type. All the others were scrapped in 1967.

On the Armistice Day holiday of November 11th, 1947, the Madison presented Torelli's Circus on stage, in addition to "2 Star-Studded Dramatic Triumphs" on screen. The supporting feature was a re-issue, due to a product shortage resulting from labor union problems at the Hollywood studios: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madison47.jpg

Ed...This is one of the links that you have been posting to various theater listings. We are all tired of it and it must stop now. (just kidding) Had you going for a second, didn't I? LOL

Anyway, I think that ad is from January 1978. A few of us think that the RKO Madison closed around that time, maybe February would be a closer date. Basically what we are looking for are ads from that time period that show movies listed for the RKO Madison and then ads where it is no longer listed. I guess the RKO Madison would be listed under Brooklyn theaters. When your scanning or posting these ads, could you keep an eye open for the RKO Madison theater? Thanks.

I only have the one paper from 1978, Lost. It's a copy of the Daily News from 1/25/78 and there is no listing for the Madison in any movie clock or film ad:

Movie Clock - Daily News 1/25/78
The image is a little blurry, but you can make out that the Brooklyn listings include the Oasis and Ridgewood. However, under Queens you also find a Ridgewood listing. And both of these listings show a different attraction. I have an ad for the movie "Sasquatch" that confirms it was playing at the Ridgewood. There is no ad for "Smokey and the Bandit", which would have been on a late run by that time. Could the "Ridgewood" theater playing the Burt Reynolds flick have been the Madison mislabled? Was it part of the RKO discount houses that played last run pics around this time? Or was the Ridgewood already a twin at the time with some smart aleck editor at the paper allowing one auditorium for Brooklyn and the other for Queens?

That's really odd! I don't think the Ridgewood was cut up in 1978 yet, but not sure. Perhaps that was a misprint for the Madison? it's odd that the Ridgewood Theater would be in both the Brooklyn and QUeens listings, and a different movie for each!

Okay, I understand Ed. I don't know if the Ridgewood theater was a twin in 1978 either. The first listing is:

Brooklyn, Ridgewood, Ridgewood theater. The second listing appears to be Queens, Ridgewood, no theater name. We never seem to gain any ground with the closing date of the Madison. One mystery just leads to another mystery.

Jon Voight ("National Treasures"): "One clue just leads to another clue."

Lost Memory ("Cinema Treasures"): "One mystery just leads to another mystery."

Doris Day: "Que Sera, Sera."

BrooklynJim: "ROFLMFAO!" :)

"But, I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to fu*kin' amuse you?".

Joe Pesci to Ray Liotta in Goodfellas.

A Made Man
Made in Taiwan

"It's a mystery! It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma!"

Just to continue the Joe Pesci thread.

OK, that's it!

Forget about Ridgewood II, the Second Coming. Forget about purging by remote control. Forget about what damage the real Joe Pesci can do. Instead, let's pillage and sack all the Warner Theaters that Patsy has just provided for our entertainment and pleasure. Besides, they'll never figure out which Warner Theater we're on! LOL!

"I want the world, Chico... and everythin' tha's in it."
- Tony "Last of the Bad Guys" Montana

Oh my god, they left the Ridgewood Theater and came across the street to the RKO Madison. Haha.

Bway, we're just following Ed's suggestion about pillaging and plundering elsewhere. As you stated, the RKO Madison was certainly closer than the new Atlas Park Stadium 8 in Glendale. (We'll get that one when there's no more room here. LOL!)

Oh no you don't. Don't blame this on me. Warren will hunt me down and beat me with his fists or personally arrange it so I am banned from the Lincoln Center branch of the NY Public Library.

"Why didn't you come to your Don first? Your enemies would become my enemies. They would suffer this very day." - Vito Andolini, 1945

This is an Eyewitness news brief.....

"Off topic message poster pummeled with bilge pump. Our news helicopter is enroute to the scene. Details at 11".

We now return you to our reguarly scheduled messages. :)

"Anyway, I think that ad is from January 1978. A few of us think that the RKO Madison closed around that time, maybe February would be a closer date."

No. I remember that, on the last Saturday in February 1978, the RKO Madison Theater had been closed for about a month, was already a derelict ruin, with that sign on the front, that I have mentioned before, saying :

THIS IS HOW YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STARTS TO DECAY !

IF THIS BOTHERS YOU, CALL : (phone # for neighborhod action group)

Reading through these old messages I found another cranky fella with no name. Was this other crankcase expelled? I am referring to this message.
More jibberish nonsense. The three of you carry on as buffoons. I see no factual statements being made only conjecture and speculation. Use your time more wisely to find factual theatre data that will benefit everyone. Childish gossip runs amok here.
posted by on Feb 15, 2005 at 7:33pm

mikemovies, I think that other crank case was either "Ridgewood Bill", who thought he was God, or Fast Eddy, a troll who liked to brag about having had sex with the corpse of Mae West in the balcony of the RKO Madison Theater, after it had closed.

I don't think you would consider Ridgewood Bill to be a crank case. More like a bucket of sludge.

The Ridgewood was never a twin it went from a single to a triplex

Lost Memory, Ridgewood Bill a bucket of sludge ? How about a real-life "Toxic Avenger" ?

RobertR, the only "twinning" of the Ridgewood I was aware of was in mid-June 1980, when it was showing the film "Friday The 13th" in its balcony, and a boxing match on closed-circuit TV on the orchestra level.

When the theatre went from a single to a triplex the first thing to open was the balcony theatre. Like discussed before the theatre never closed so the boxing match must have been shown after the blacony theatre had been constructed and the wall dividing the orchestra had not yet been put up, or the boxing was shown on one side.

Melvin the toxic avenger. Based in New Jersey for some odd reason. haha

I did not see the boxing match, and so cannot comment on the state of the orchestra level on Tuesday, June 17, 1980 : whether or not it was undivided.

There are no records that I can find for the Ridgewood theater that show it as a twin. NYC lists the Ridgewood as a 1, 3, and 5 screen theater at various times over the years but nothing as a twin. Unless the Ridgewood was operating as a twin "illegally", could the 1/25/78 ad that Ed posted showing "Sasquatch" have been for the RKO Madison instead? Possibly the last movie shown at the nameless theater. After operating for 50 years your reduced to screening "Sasquatch".

It's possible. If it had been January 1948 instead of January 1978, Sasquatch probably would have appeared live on the stage of the RKO Madison Theater, along with a film about "Sasquatch" being shown.

I guess Sasquatch was a "G" rated adventure movie. I doubt that it was anything like Harry and the Hendersons. Looking at a 1978 calendar, January 25 was a Wednesday. Maybe and hopefully, another movie played after Sasquatch starting on Thursday and then the Madison could have closed on a higher note. If the unknown theater in the ad is the Madison, at least it was finally listed as being in Queens. R.I.P. Madison theater.

The mind boggles at what "special arrangement" was required for this "unusual entertainment scoop" in March, 1961:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/daffydilly.jpg

What an odd pairing! One, an early entry in the long-running series of low British comedies that lasted well into the '70's and the other, a seminal Italian horror classic from maestro Mario Bava!

I remember catching that double bill with my friends at age 12 at, I think, the Queens or Community in Queens. Quite a double shocker--Carry On for the bawdy humor and Black Sunday for that opening sequence. Very educational day!

Does anyone know what they did during that "special arrangement"?

No idea, Bway, it was before my time. The first horror movie I recall having seen at the RKO Madison was "The Premature Burial", directed by Roger Corman, from the story by Edgar Allan Poe, starring Ray Milland and Hazel Court, summer 1962, when I was six.

A 1955 double bill, if ever there was a pair of "women's pictures" it's these two.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/FemaleontheBeach.jpg

I was the last manager of the madison as rko...roll up to june 6th of this year....i think i was put there to close the place, though not telling me at the time...there was a manager there, can't remember his name old enough for me to call him mister [that old]..
rko didn't want to put any money into it..ie: ac and heat...the only up side was a great staff trying to keep things together for many like myself was the theatre of our childhood life...yes, near the end rko did play alot of underbelly movies...reason why..you book them for a flat fee...anything over that was yours...most patrons at that time were under 25...lack of heat and air not a problem for them, just a place to be....just a side bar..like most theatres in
the day...coal..was the heat...get this...at night you would load the furnace with coal...then wet in down with water...during the night the hot coals would dry out the new wet coals so, by the time it took to dry you would have a nice warm theatre by noon...and the down side a cold theatre by evening...AND THIS JUST IN...in the winter kids would sneak in sliding down the coal shoot..
my mom, as a child, saw martha ray live on stage with my mother,
i, as a child, my grandmother would take me to the madison...
as an adult i was manager of the madison..many fond family MADISON
MEMORIES...

keep your feet off the seats!

wally

I was the last manager of the madison as rko...roll up to june 6th of this year....i think i was put there to close the place, though not telling me at the time...there was a manager there, can't remember his name old enough for me to call him mister [that old]..
rko didn't want to put any money into it..ie: ac and heat...the only up side was a great staff trying to keep things together for many like myself was the theatre of our childhood life...yes, near the end rko did play alot of underbelly movies...reason why..you book them for a flat fee...anything over that was yours...most patrons at that time were under 25...lack of heat and air not a problem for them, just a place to be....just a side bar..like most theatres in
the day...coal..was the heat...get this...at night you would load the furnace with coal...then wet in down with water...during the night the hot coals would dry out the new wet coals so, by the time it took to dry you would have a nice warm theatre by noon...and the down side a cold theatre by evening...AND THIS JUST IN...in the winter kids would sneak in sliding down the coal shoot..
my mom, as a child, saw martha ray live on stage with my mother,
i, as a child, my grandmother would take me to the madison...
as an adult i was manager of the madison..many fond family MADISON
MEMORIES...

keep your feet off the seats!

wally

What was the closing date of the RKO Madison theatre wally1975? Many of the fella's have been trying to find that answer for a long time. Perhaps you can shed some light on the subject.

Wally....Do you remember the last movie that played at the Madison?

i'm thinking jan of 77...i do remember a snow storm

right before it closed...if that helps...i'm sure there's a weather web that could pin point the month and year..as far as the movie..
sorry i can't help you...i was to busy cleaning out files and snack bars to remember that...
after that they fired the manager of 59th street east...i went there...did star wars come out in spring 77?? if it did that was the year..[winter] madison closed..i asked for more money...with that
there was a price...they sent me to fordham and the picture was
star wars...star wars played in the old balcony and they had two
pictures in each of the downstairs smaller theatres..the picture downstairs was an hard "R" called GUMS! a soft porn kinda' like jaws
about a mermaid that gave head...and bit off more then she could chew...to the tune of the jaws theme music track..
did elvis die in aug 77/? during the summer run of star wars was playing then and then came the black out..and riots..
if the events above happened in 77 then the madison closed in jan or feb of 77.
more later on the rko radio network

wally 1975




wally 1975

Wally
Did anyone ever re-open the Madison for a short time after RKO? A projectionist I worked with said an independent opened it up again for the summer after RKO closed it. The last time I was there it was still an RKO, but I do remember going past when it was closed for good and on the marquee covering the RKO signs were large metal Coca-Cola signs. They looked odd there but seemed to be there to cover up the RKO logo.

Star Wars was released in 1977. And Elvis died in August of 1977. So far so good. The snowstorm could be a problem. I remember two large snowstorms that occurred in January and February of 1978. I'm not sure about 1977. Its possible that there was also a storm in 1977.

LM, NYC experienced blizzards in back-to-back Januarys, 1977 & 1978.

In his 8-7-06 post (1:58pm), PKoch sounded pretty specific in his dates - and reasons - for the (former RKO) Madison's closing. Wally1975 could be accurate for the "RKO" closure, but still off by several months regarding the second and final closing, as recalled by Peter. All the other pieces of the puzzle fit, including yours, RobertR's and the majority of Wally's.

i don't remember anything in there pryer to 1980...it could have been in the 80's..after a burn -out summer and fall i took a cross
country drive to calif. when i got back i ran babyhugies in commack
part of the obi chain...in the summers i would live and work in hamton bays at obi east and also an on air shift at WLNG,sagharbor..
early 80's left new york to work in my first love radio..
20 something years later back on long island doing just that..
THIS JUST IN......ISIP THEATRE MAY BE CLOSED....FILM AT 11..
oh yah..back to lost memory...it may have not been a storm but,
enough for me to take lirr and 2 buss's to get to the madison..
wally1975

I looked at a Movie Clock from the NY Times dated 1/6/78. The Madison theater is not listed. The Ridgewood theater is listed under Ridgewood Brooklyn. It was showing "Which Way is Up" and "The Car". Under Ridgewood Queens theaters, the Oasis theater was showing "Airport '77" and "Heroes".

A NY Times Movie Clock dated 12/24/76 (Friday) under Ridgewood, Brooklyn lists the Madison theater showing "In Search of Noah's Ark". Only one movie is listed. The Ridgewood theater was showing "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" and "Torso". What a great Christmas double feature. Judging from these movies, neither theater appears to be doing very well at this time.

The Madison is still open Apr 15, 1977. It is still listed under Ridgewood, Brooklyn. Movies playing at the Madison were "Black Samurai" and "The Green Hornet". Was that from the Green Hornet tv show? In Ridgewood, Queens the Oasis was showing "Rocky".

We know for sure it was open until August of 1977 (see my ad above for Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane)

Okay, thanks Robert. I'm doing a process of elimination trying to narrow down the date. The Madison is still open on Sep 23, 1977. The movie playing was "Suspiria". Only one movie listed. The Ridgewood was showing "Dynasty" and "Warhol's Frankenstein".

Good work, guys. Lots of interesting detail. Thanks. It goes far in filling in the blanks in my memory.

Here is another listing Peter. The NY Times Movie Clock for Nov 11, 1977 lists no Madison theater. Listed under Ridgewood, Brooklyn is the Ridgewood theater. The movies playing there were "Spy Who Loved Me" and "Gator". In Ridgewood, Queens the Oasis was showing "Heavy Traffic" and "Fritz the Cat". So the Madison is listed on Sep 23 but not listed on Nov 11, 1977.

Annoying blanks in my memory, at that, because from August 1976 through February 1978 I walked past the RKO Madison about ten times a week, and didn't necessarily notice what was playing there, or, if I did, I forgot. I MUST have noticed when it was closed, but, for reasons that are still not clear to me, do not remember the date I noticed.

I think we will excuse you not remembering what exact date it closed, Peter, seeing that it's about 30 years ago...we'll let you slide!!

Just to make sure that the Nov. 11 schedule didn't omit the Madison theater for just that week, I found another Movie Clock dated Nov 25, 1977. The Madison is not listed in this one either. The Madison stopped advertising somewhere between Sep 23 and Nov 11, 1977.

This is a comment posted here about two years ago. This person might be right.

"The RKO Madison closed right after halloween in 77 it showed a twin bill horror flick I can't remember the names off hand
posted by Don Novack on Sep 21, 2004 at 9:08pm"

Thanks for so excusing me, Bway, and thereby cutting me some slack. I was probably preoccupied with thoughts of school and my studies, all those times I passed the RKO Madison on the way from home to the subway (L line) and vice versa.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I will go on assuming that the RKO Madison closed right after Halloween 1977, as we know from Lost Memory's last post that the RKO Madison stopped advertising somewhere between Sep 23 and Nov 11, 1977.

Thanks, guys, for helping to answer the question, "When did the RKO Madison in Ridgewood show its last film ?"

Great work. Perhaps in time we will be able to find the exact date of the Madison theatre closing.

Yes, mikemovies, perhaps we will, and that will be good indeed, for the exact date could then go into the banner for the RKO Madison at the top of this page.

I'll see if I can find any other schedules and try to narrow the date down even further. Looking at some of the movies that played at the Madison around that time, it seems like everyday was a Halloween festival. Don't worry about your memory Peter, I forgot the Madison closed until I read it on here. LOL

Actually, seriously, I would think the Madison would have been a truly great place to see a horror movie. As you enter into it's imposing Gothic exterior, ornate interior, and perhaps it's somewhat failing condition by the 1970's if they were planning to close soon anyway, it must have been the perfect setting to see a horror movie.

I remember my father telling me how he and his friends were scared to death when they saw Psycho in the theater when it came out. I don't remember if he told me he saw it in the Ridgewood or the Madison, but either way, he said it was a sight to behold.

Bway....I remember seeing many Vincent Price movies at the Madison and the interior design of that theater did help to make the movies more scary.

Good idea, Lost Memory.

Yes, the RKO Madison was a perfect old Gothic place to see a horror movie, as I know from having seen several there myself. "The Exorcist" must have been pretty impressive there in July or August 1976, even with, or perhaps because of, the theater's failing, run-down condition.

Bway, "Psycho" was a sight to behold at the BAM Rose Cinema this past Saturday, July 15th, even though I know the film by heart, and have three copies of it !

Lost... I did alot of that same research you did on the Madison, using the Times online archives. There are some gaps in what the Times has digitized, but I searched every single "Weekend Movie Clock" I could find from late 1977 through early 1978. The very latest Movie Clock where I could find the Madison listed was that 9/23/77 one. Here's an image:

Brooklyn - 9/23/77

Looks like Dario Argento's hypnotic thriller "Suspiria" was playing on a double bill, judging from the showing times. Perhaps it was paired with "Devil's Express" as it seems to have been over at the Loew's Metropolitan". Unfortunately, as you know, the archives are missing any Movie Clocks for the month of October and that first weekend in November so there is no way of knowing if there were other showings prior to 11/11/77. There is a 9/30/77 movie clock that does not list the Madison at all, but it seems that in many of these clocks, some of the boroughs and outlying areas got abreviated coverage (Queens would often be cut off alphabetically at Jackson Heights and the Jamaica theaters were frequently missing) so that's really no positive verification. I think we've narrowed it down pretty well, however. Halloween '77 is probably a good recollection from Don Novack and gels with the sketchy info and other memories we have.

Thanks, EdSolero.

BTW, I recall "Suspiria" and "The Fury" playing at the Ridgewood as a double bill in mid to late May 1978, seven months after the assumed closing of the RKO Madison.

Peter, last Halloween, the Boulton Center theater (former Regent) in Bay Shore had a Hitchcock night, where they played Psycho and The Birds in a double header. It would have been a chance for me to see it in an old single screen theater, but wasn't able to get over there.
It's a performing arts center, but it still has the capacity to show film, which is nice, and they occasionally do stuff like that.

Ed....The 9/23/77 movie clock was the last one I found listing the Madison. I haven't seen any movie clocks for October of 1977. The post Halloween closing given by Don Novack will have to be the approximate date for now. October 31, 1977 was on a Monday in case anyone is curious.

I also looked at the 9/30/77 Movie Clock and the Ridgewood theater is listed but not the Madison. I did find a Movie Clock for 11/4/77 and there is no Madison theater listed there either. Only the Ridgewood theater is listed for Ridgewood, Brooklyn. Playing at the Ridgewood was "Flying Guillotine" and "Jaws of Death".

Ah... "Master of the Flying Guillotine"... one of the chop-sockey genre's greatest (and most outlandish) entries. A martial arts classic that was a key influence on a young Quentin Tarantino. But, let me stop this musing before Warren swoops in to admonish me and poke fun at all of us for quibbling over the RKO's closing date!

Jaws of Death features Richard Jaeckel in a low budget shark movie. Jaeckel trains sharks to destroy his enemies. The theme of this movie is in some ways akin to certain fella's on this website. haha

Even in 1966 it's shocking for Othello to be playing like this at the Madison, Bushwick and Kenmore.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Othello1966.jpg

What do you find shocking about it, RobertR ?

I wonder what the RKO Bushwick was like in 1966. By then, my family and I, living in adjacent Ridgewood, considered Bushwick a "bad, unsafe" neighborhood, and only attended movies at the Madison and Ridgewood. Our sole routine business in Bushwick ended when our family doctor moved from Palmetto between Bway and Bushwick to 70th Avenue in upper Ridgewood in 1966.

I imagine Robert is referring to the fact that the Moor Othello was being portrayed by a white actor (Laurence Olivier), which might have fueled some fires in predominantly black neighborhoods during the heat of the Civil Rights movement.

But the Madison isn't/wasn't located in a "predominatly black neighborhood"***. It never was, even when it was operating yet.

***Not that there's anything wrong with that

Good idea, Ed. It makes sense. That would have caused more of a stir in 1966 at the Bushwick than at the Madison, especially with the help of Stokeley Carmichael and H. Rap Brown.

That's true, Bway. Thanks. Ridgewood has become heavily Hispanic, but never became predominantly black, despite the fears in that direction at that time of many Ridgewoodites, including my family and myself.

I remember reading or seeing something in the 1970's and '80's to the effect that "housing discrimination against blacks in Ridgewood, Glendale, Maspeth and Middle Village is among the worst in NYC".

Someone once commented to me that if a black family ever moved into Middle Village, their home would probably be fire-bombed.

I was refering to the fact that a film such as this appeals to such a small percentage of the market and is not geared toward a working class area. Even now it could only fly in a limited booking in Manhattan and a few art houses in the boroughs.

In that it's true. Ridgewood was always a working class neighborhood, even when it was new. It probably never housed the more affluent types that would have liked that sort of show, and especially not in the 60's.
Ridgewood has always been a stable, viable, working class area, so perhaps the Madison itself may have even been "too fancy" of a theater for the area, even when it was new!

The Othello featuring Sir Laurence Olivier and Maggie Smith was the best version ever released. Not to sound racist fella's but Othello would not draw a large black audience in 1966. Many white people would shy away from this movie also.

That's an interesting thought, Bway, that the Madison may have been too fancy a theater for Ridgewood, even when both the Madison and Ridgewood itself were new. My family and I always liked it, though, and went there frequently.

The "Othello" factor would be intellect and education, not first and foremost affluence, although the two tend to go hand in hand. There were, and still are, college and college-bound students living in Ridgewood such as we once were.

Here's an RKO-Madison-specific example : My high school-educated parents saw the film "Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf ?" at the RKO Madison in early 1967, and only partly understood it, partly because the stars Liz and Dick were mumbling toward the end. The play it was based on only began to mean something to me when I studied it as a senior in h.s. in 1972-73, then I learned it by heart. I would have studied it in a drama course in college if I hadn't dropped the course.

I subsequently saw the film on TV and heard the original cast recording on LP, and now have the film on VHS.

Makes sense, RobertR. You and mike are right about the appeal of such a movie today. It would play in Manhattan and maybe Brooklyn Heights and then the Kew Gardens Cinemas and a select couple of theaters in Nassau and Suffolk. I'm not sure I'd draw the line along racial borders, so much as I would along much more arcane and harder to define economic and cultural borders. There was a version of Othello starring Laurence Fishburn released in the '90's that did not get much play beyond the isle of Manhattan. It seems that these days, the only Shakespeare that translates across demographics is that in which swords and paternal clans are replaced by guns and modern day gangs (be it "West Side Story" or Baz Luhrman's "Romeo and Juliet"). Come to think of it, there was also a modern day version of Othello with a high school setting called "O" not too long ago that was a minor success, relative to its small budget.

I don't remember seeing Othello in 1966. In fact, I'm sure that I didn't see it. I was into educational and high class movies at that time. Movies like, "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", "Dracula: Prince of Darkness", "Fantastic Voyage", "Murderer's Row" and one of my favorites "Women of the Prehistoric Planet". Intellectual movies like those helped to warp my young mind even more than it was before I saw those movies. If the movie title had the word "girls" or "women" in it, my friends and I would go to see it. If the title of Othello was changed to "Girls of Othello", I'm sure that we would have gone to see that movie. LOL

Gents, I think these things were block-booked for the whole RKO ciruit whether there was specific appeal or not. As late as the eighties Cineplex Odeon was pressured into runs of films such as SUPERMAN, TERMS OF ENDEARMENT and TOP GUN which played to empty screens at the Kenmore among others.

Then the opposite started to happen. Slasher movies and BOYZ 'N THE HOOD on the upper east side.

It's a little numbers game the industry plays to justify the ad spend and appear politically enlightened.

It still happens. THE DUKES OF HAZARD at the Magic Johnson Harlem 9. Ouch!
THE LOST CITY anywhere outside Miami and New Jersey. BOYNTON BEACH CLUB anywhere outside Boynton Beach.

Lost... I knew you were high brow. At the risk of veering off topic for a second, I recall my father taking me to see a double feature of the 1970 British horror-anthology "The House That Dripped Blood" which played on a double feature with the '66 Christopher Lee epic you mentioned, "Dracula: Prince of Darkness". I can't for the life of me remember where I saw the film, but I believe "House" was released here in the Spring of 1971. My family moved to Miami for a year towards the end of that summer and I'm pretty sure we saw the film while still in NYC. And me at the tender age of 6 and 1/2! Was that irresponsible of my dad? Ha... I never considered it. Those two flicks had some fairly gruesome scenes in them, despite the one being rated only PG and the other originally released here pre-MPAA ratings, but I don't think it ruined me (no snickering). Anyway, if RobertR is out there listening, please post if you come across any ads for that twin bill, as I know you share a lot of 1970's clippings with the group.

Also... I have to ask if any one is familiar with an online service called Newspaper Archive (at newspaperarchive.com). They claim to allow subscribers to view, download and print images of newspapers going back to 1759. They claim to have the largest such database available online and for a price that seems too good to be true, when you compare it to a service like Proquest. I'm tempted, but I don't want to get bagged here. Anyone?

High brow ... "Dracula: Prince of Darkness", showing a dead man strung up by his heels, his throat slit, so he could bleed out into the dust that became ... Dracula ! once again. I saw the sequel, "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave", at the Madison in early 1969.

I saw "The House That Dripped Blood" at the RKO Madison on a double bill with "The Reincarnation Of Peter Proud" in July 1975.

I know nothing about Newspaper Archive, but it reads worthwhile.

Those Dracula flicks went on and on didn't he? The old Count had more lives than a cat! And what great pains each film (at least in the original cycle of films set in the 19th Century) took to pick up from the point of Dracula's demise in the previous film and play out his elaborate resurrection! While in Florida, I caught the first of those films to try and bring Dracula into modern times. Called "Dracula AD 1972", it had Christopher Lee swinging with hippie occult-worshipping chicks in Mod London and saw it on a double bill at the Tropicaire Drive In. Some years later, they finally released the last of those Lee/Dracula films here in the states... another modern-set film titled "Satanic Rites of Dracula" that I caught on the bottom of a triple bill on 42nd Street under the title "Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride" in 1980 or '81, I think. I'm almost positive that was at the Liberty Theater.

Dracula: Prince of Darkness featuring Christopher Lee and Barbara Shelley. Very cool movie. British horror movies were some of the best ever made. I have looked at the newspaperarchive.com website. Each search I tried returned me to the Norwalk Reflector newspaper. Perhaps the free search only returns results from the Norwalk Reflector newspaper. A month to month subscription is about $10. I am very skeptical of this service.

Newspaperarchive.com is not of much help to people doing theatre research. You would do better finding a local public library that has an Internet connection to ProQuest, which gives you free access to the archives of The New York Times, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times, and other newspapers (availabilty varies from library to library).

1966 also saw opera
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/LaBoheme1968.jpg

Alalvarez makes a great point I remember when City Cinemas was playing the lowest of the Warner Brothers films in Cinema 1 & 2 because they had a deal to open their films.

About a month after I missed Othello, I also missed La Boheme. No wonder I'm culture challenged. :)

Haha. Actually, it's so nice to see all of those old theaters in print. I see the RKO Bushwick, RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, RKO Flushing, and all the other RKOs all were showing it.

Ed, THE HOUSE THAT DRIPPED BLOOD went wide around on May 11, 1971 including the the RKO Madison. There is no mention of a second feature.

Thanks, Al. I suppose there may have been various 2nd features booked by individual nabes througout the run and therefore not advertised. If you're ever able to post an image of that ad, I'd love to see the theaters listed for Queens and try to figure out where I saw this. Unfortunately, my Dad is no longer alive for me to ask him. I don't remember him taking me into Manhattan for this, and it sounds like something we'd just run to a local house to see.

THE HOUSE THAT DRIPPED BLOOD was, for some reason unknown to me, the secondary feature to the just-released THE REINCARNATION OF PETER PROUD at the RKO Madison in July 1975. Apart from that, I see very little relation between the two films.

Perhaps we need a film about THE MOVIE HOUSE THAT DRIPPED BLOOD.

Ed, I'm afraid I don't know how to do that but here is the line-up.

TEH HOUSE THAT DRIPPED BLOOD STARTS MAY 12, 1971

Manhattan
(while continuing at) RKO 59th St. TWINS

RKO 23RD ST.
RKO COLISUEM
NEW AMSTERDAM
ROOSEVELT 145TH ST.

Brooklyn
RKO ALBEE
RKO DYKER
RKO KENMORE
RKO MADISON
GEORGETOWN TWIN 2
KINGSWAY

Queens
RKO ALDEN
RKO KEITHS
BOULEVARD
ELMWOOD

Bronx
RKO FORDHAM
WHITESTONE DRIVE-IN

Thanks Al... It was either the Boulevard or the Elmwood, and I'm leaning towards the Boulevard since I have early memories of going to that theater often as a child. I don't quite remember the Elmwood until I was much older. We lived on 41st Ave in Elmhurst just off Junction Boulevard about 2 blocks from Roosevelt Ave. The Boulevard is definitely a very good bet. That theater along with the Lefrak and the Fair loomed large in my very earliest moviegoing. Thanks a bunch, Al... I really think that's the place!

The House That Dripped Blood is another British horror movie fella's. Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing together again. This isn't as good a movie as the Frankenstein or Dracula movies with Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing but still worth watching.

If anyone lives in Ridgewood and is interested, the upstairs of the RKO, or rather "Liberty Department Store" now has been open to the public. Its a furniture showcase up there but the one time I was there recently, you could see through the doors where they bring stuff in from and the walls are a greenish paint color, or appeared to be, and its just interesting to look around and picture what it looked like before. :-)

Perhaps on your next visit to the RKO Madison theatre you could take some photos Smore. If that is permissible with management of course.

Wow, thanks for that info!! I will have to check that out next time I am in the area!!

I don't remember if the walls were green or not. The walls might have been painted by one of the retailers over the past thirty years. I'd like to see some photos if you manage to take any.

Perhaps there was smoke damage from the fire. The interior could have been painted at that time.

The Reade Organization released "Slaves" the god awful film debut of Dionne Warwick. In December 1969 Continental Releasing paired it with Night of the Living Dead and it opened on the RKO track across town. Notice it's not playing any Walter Reade Theatres :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Vixen1969.jpg

Thanks, RobertR, now I know when "Night of the Living Dead" played at the RKO Madison. I would have thought December 1968, not 1969. I vaguely remember Dionne Warwick in "Slaves", and vividly remember Russ Meyers' "Vixen". Your Walter Reade comment is interesting, in that I remember reading that the Walter Reade Organization was the original distributor of "Night of the Living Dead", and would not subscribe or submit to the then-new G M R X movie rating system.

Interesting that Loew's Gates was still showing movies in December 1969. I wonder when it stopped showing films ? I suppose that should be a standard item of info for all these now-closed movie theaters.

Interesting that "Slaves" and "Night of the Living Dead" were on the same bill, and that both were loaded with black-white racial issues and connotations, although "Slaves" was blaxploitation and "NOTLD" is generally agreed not to be.

A Russ Meyer double feature at the Sunrise Drive-in. Did they have in car heaters at that time, or were these two movies suppose to keep you warm? LOL

I don't know about in-car heaters at the Sunrise Drive-In. My parents and I only saw one feature there in summer 1970 (no heaters needed) : "The Out Of Towners" and "Rosemary's Baby". Re: the latter film, and Mia Farrow's breasts, my Dad said something about "lung warts".

Russ Myer films, eager, young, warm bodies, passion pit locale = plenty of body heat and steam, plus a good workout of the seat cushions and springs.

The RKO Bushwick stopped showing movies before the Loews Gates, if I am not mistaken. Actually, the church congregation that is now housed in the old Loews Gates Theater, originally started out in the RKO Bushwick Theater for a while. However, when the Loews Gates became available, they for some reason moved into there, and out of the Bushwick Theater.

'Lung warts' is very funny PKoch. Any of you fella's know if they used a double for Mia Farrow's nude scene?

Thanks, Bway. Do we have exact dates for Loews Gates and the RKO Bushwick showing their last movies ?

The RKO Bushwick stopped showing movies sometime during 1969. I am not sure what month. The Church moved in some time after that. I don't know exactly how many years the church was in the RKO Bushwick before moving into the Gates Theater. The Gates may also have sat empty for a few years before the church moved in, so even if we find out when the church moved into the Gates, that doesn't mean it's the same year it closed.
Of course, once the church moved out of the RKO Bushwick Theater, it began it's now infamous decline into complete shambels over the following 25 to 30 years.....

Glad you liked that, mikemovies. I don't know if a double was used for Mia Farrow's nude scene, only that the nude female that appeared, her areolas, as well as her nipples, were puffy, and elevated above the skin of her breasts, like those of an adolescent girl.

Thanks, Bway. Fortunately, the RKO Bushwick, with some help from the NYC Board Of Ed, and its chosen building contractor, has risen like the phoenix from its own ashes, exterior preserved, albeit with interior gutted, and changed into a school.

Perfect summer fun PLUS healthfully cooled
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/ThisIslandEarth.jpg

Thanks, RobertR !

I remember those icicle-encrusted block letters advertising "HEALTHFULLY AIR CONDITIONED" very well.

I missed that double feature at the RKO Madison, but saw "This Island Earth" and "Creature From The Black Lagoon" at NYC's Film Forum in late July 1989, the latter in 3-D, yet.

Vacation on Metaluna, anyone ?

Maybe this site needs an inter-rossiter !

PKoch, that was quite an interesting description above, lol.

Thanks, Bway !

To restore my auto notification

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

"This Island Earth" is now available on DVD. It was released around the end of August.

Very cool. I must buy that dvd. This Island Earth receives far less attention then War of the Worlds and Forbidden Planet. In my opinion fella's This Island Earth is the better of these 3 movies. The next year Jeff Morrow could be seen in the Creature Walks Among Us. Only two years prior to This Island Earth; Jeff Morrow was in the Robe. That is diversity.

"This Island Earth receives far less attention then War of the Worlds and Forbidden Planet. In my opinion fella's This Island Earth is the better of these 3 movies."

Why ?

Got my copy of "This Island Earth" earlier this month. Best feature: the (restored) color is the most vivid I've seen since the original release in '55. Worst feature: only available in full screen format.

As much as I like this movie over the aforementioned FP & WoW, I can no longer view it without hearing the witty, acerbic and often insane dialogue inserted in the "MST3K: The Movie" version. Tom Servo or Crow commenting on the initial appearance of Brack, Exeter's assistant: "He's president of the Buddy Ebsen Fan Club." LMAO!

And for those of you who've patiently been waiting...

5 movies previously unavailable on DVD have been released by Universal last week and are available only through Best Buy franchises at the present time under the title of Classic Sci-Fi Ultimate Collection, and I believe every one played at RKO Madison matinees 1955-1958:

Tarantula
Mole People
Monster on the Campus
Incredible Shrinking Man
Monolith Monsters

I loved the $19.99 price tag, too. ;)

Can Gog (1954 in EastmanColor) be next???

["If it's 'Universal,' doesn't that automatically make it 'International?'" - Crow at the outset of MST3K's "This Island Earth" parody.]

"Incredible Shrinking Man" on DVD interests me.

In a box somewhere in my closet rests truncated and silent single reel 8mm versions of "Tarantula" and "Incredible Shrinking Man" - both courtesy of Castle Films! Those movies - and many other Universal titles I had as a kid - were quite popular at the annual block parties we used to have every Summer when I lived in Laurelton, Queens. I know I've mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but some of my favorite memories involved our home-movie projector and screen being set up by my dad at the curb in front of our house (with several extension cords strung from the socket under the front stoop lamp to supply power). I think I had just about every film from the original Frankenstein series - right up to "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein!"

Good times...

FYI... a big-screen remake of "Incredible Shrinking Man" is in the works for 2008. The director is Keenan Ivory Wayans, which surely means that this will be a comedy.

Ed Solero, I think I remember Castle Films being advertised in "Famous Monsters Of Filmland" and "Monster World" forty-odd years ago. Possibly named after "Castle Of Frankenstein" magazine, or mayve schlock B gimmick director William Castle ? A boyhood friend of mine had the 8mm highlights of James Whale's 1935 "The Bride Of Frankenstein". We watched it on his 8 mm home movie projector. He directed me to watch for a certain subtle change of facial expression by Karloff as The Monster, which I did, and saw.

"Incredible Shrinking Man" as a comedy .... ugh !!!!

Two horror movies available on dvd that I have never seen or heard of before fella's. Both movies involve nudist camps. The first movie is titled 'The Beast that Killed Women' 1965 directed by Barry Mahon. A gorilla runs around a Miami nudist colony killing people. The second title is 'The Monster of Camp Sunshine' 1964. Toxic waste is released into a river. A man in the nudist camp drinks the water and turns into a monster. The second movie is better then the first. Unfortunately BrooklynJim they are both in full screen.

well, back to the Madison theater which is what this page is supposed to be about = I live very close to what was the Madison theater and is now Liberty Stores - I took some photos from the outside and here they are

1. http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=madisontheater01nf3.jpg

and

2. http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=madisontheater02mu2.jpg

Vik......

Thanks Vic. Testimony to bad signage rules and zoning regulations.

Is the ad on the west facing wall still for the Madison ? It was mentioned in discussion of photos from the Myrtle Ave el on this page.

Are you old enough to remember Ripley's Clothing a few doors away, and the Horn and Hardart Automat?

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Yes, 'Tonino, it's still there, on top, albeit fainter and fainter, while the graffiti on the bottom becomes ever bolder. In 1976 it was still legible enough for me to read it from atop the WTC with 25 power pay binoculars.

I was born in mid-November 1955, and remember Ripley's, but not the Automat, only Koletty's Ice Cream Parlor, Gottlieb's Deli Restaurant, and Bickford's, where McDonald's is now, next to the the immortal Optimo Cigar store on the southeast corner of Myrtle and Wyckoff.

Live long and prosper.

Here's the front page of a special "Grand Opening Supplement" published in the Ridgewood Times on November 18, 1927:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madopener.jpg

Perhaps you would be interested Vik in helping other member's to land mark the Ridgewood theatre. Photo's of the Ridgewood theatre would be a big help in achieving that status.

Did the Madison have a marquee in the 1927 photo? Hard to tell.

Sounds like the Cigar store is still there. I was this kid from Glendale who worked at Ripley's from 1952 to 1960. Took the Myrtle Ave el to Bklyn Tech HS until '55 and then to Brooklyn Poly 'til '59.

Madison was the class theater. I was a regular at Cappy's pool hall above the Ridgewood. Our competition, Howard's Clothing, was located on the corner

Don't recall Koletti's. Had my ice cream, egg creams and humongous cheeseburgers at "The luncheonette" down street from the Madison run by Irv and Syd.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior


Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Not in the photo that Warren posted a link to, but in another photo from the same time, the Madison had both a vertical and a horizontal marquee.

I remember Howard's, on the northwest corner of Myrtle and Putnam. Didn't that have a vertical sign, too ? Got my First Holy Communion suit there in May 1963 and another suit there in February 1969 for my dad's parents' 50th anniversary bash, which I also wore first year of high school.

Exactly where was Irv and Syd's place ? Koletty's Ice Cream Parlor was on the n.e. corner of Myrtle and Palmetto, next to the Rathskeller.

L'chaim !

Sure I just recently visited the ridgewood theater - as you may have guessed it is now a multiplex theater - but still in tact... I'll take a run out there sometime today...
vik

Yes, Vik, please help us save the Ridgewood, if you can. Thanks.

Irv and Syd's diner was on the south side of Myrtle Avenue, a few stores west of Madison St (on the same block as the Madison and Ripley's, but east towards Madison St).

You may be right about Howard's having a vertical sign. Ripley's brought out Howard's in the early '60s.

Not to worry, I won't hold it against you that you used to shop at Howard's rather than Ripley's.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior.

'Tonino, I'm relieved. I was worried you might murder me in my sleep.

I wonder what Howard and Ripley would think of what the buildings where their stores were, have become now.

I don't think I have ever seen a photo of the Ridgewood with a vertical sign like the Madison had, but then again, historical photos of the Madison are easy to come by, historical photos of either the interior of the Ridgewood are hard to come by. Amazingly, even with the hundreds and hundreds of photos in this thread, not one person has been able to come up with a pre-1950's photo of the exterior of the Ridgewood, and NO historic photos of the interior. The Madison has everything covered in it's thread, both historical interior photos, and current, semi old, and very old exterior photos.
Why can't we get the same for the Ridgewood?

BTW< I don't know if Howards had a vertical sign or not, but do know it had a HUGE sign up at the top of the building, which covered over the cornice at the top of the building. I remember when they took it down.

Bway....You sent me a 1940's photo of Myrtle Ave showing the Ridgewood theater. Do you remember the photo with the trolley in front of the theater? You can see the large vertical Ridgewood sign and also the Howards store vertical sign in the photo. "My Man Godfrey" is on the Ridgewood marquee. If you can't find your copy, I'll email one to you.

I forgot all about that one! Thanks for reminding me, I just found it on my computer.... I also remember that Howards sign too, seeing it in the 70's! Yes, that photo I scanned from an old Ridgewood book I have. Thanks for reminding me! I believe I also emailed that photo to PKoch.
Anyway, actually, that's the earliest photo I have seen of the Ridgewood. Now lets get one from the 20's or interior photos. I am dying to see an old interior photo of the Ridgewood from when it was still one large theater.

I uploaded the photo. It's from the book "Our Community: It's History and People", published in 1976. There's also a photo of the Madison taken in 1976, in the end of the book where it says, "Photos for the future history". it was taken a year or two before it closed.

Anwyay, here's the one from the 40's from that book:

Click here for photo

Here's the one of the Madison from that book, taken in 1976 or so:

Click here for photo

And look at this, I found what appears to be a much older photo of the Ridgewood Theater, and the vertical sign wasn't there yet!! I am sorry if I don't credit the person who posted or emailed me this photo, I didn't even remember I had it, and don't remember who sent it to me or where I got it:

Click here for photo

I will also post these photos in the Ridgewood Theater section.

Bway, can you post a link for that photo to the Ridgewood page so we can all enjoy? Any other pictures of the rest of the Madison and Ridgewood blocks? ....Oasis?.. Glenwood? . Scenes of Glendale?

Warren, can you enlarge the text of the Nov '27 grand opening artical and post it?

S, c &, e

Boy, you do good work Bway.

The earlier photo is no earlier than 1933. I didn't date the cars. But both movies were made in 1933. And Tarzan (the horse) is the best actor in Strawberry Roan, according to a knowledgeable source.

S,c, & e

The photo from 1933 was posted earlier by yours truly. I copied it from a trade journal ad that showed the marquees of some of the Greater New York area theatres that were enjoying success by switching to a policy of double features.

This is the best that I can do with enlarging the text of the full page about the Madison that I posted yesterday. You should be able to read it with help from a magnifier in one of your computer programs: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/newmad.jpg

My thanks to Bway and Warren. There are other photos of Myrtle Avenue trolleys with the Ridgewood Theater in the background in the book "The Brooklyn And Queens Transit : From Flushing to Coney Island" about trolleys in Brooklyn and Queens. In one of the photos, the Ridgewood marquee is showing James Cagney in "Blood On The Sun".

The 13 Greatest Thrills Ever Seen! (March, 1959):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/thirteengreatest.jpg

Thanks, Warren. It reminds me of another Castle film, "Thirteen Ghosts", recently remade.

Sheesh fella's it is so boring here. Why isn't anybody posting interesting and fun messages.

mikemovies, that may be a matter of opinion. What would you consider to be "interesting and fun messages" ?

"mikemovies," why don't you contribute something yourself instead of relying on others to keep this website interesting and thriving?

We could talk about movies PKoch. How much more can the same people talk about this one theatre. I do contribute 'Warren'. I am helping to get the Ridgewood Theatre land marked. What do you do to contribute fella other then post the same movie ad in multiple theatres.

OK, mikemovies, what was the last film you remember having seen at the RKO Madison ? Me, it was the trashy sexploitation flick, "Lipstick", in June or July 1976, starring Margaux and Mariel Hemingway, and Chris Sarandon as the bad guy who gets blown away bigtime by Margaux at the end.

August 1976 was the double feature "The Exorcist"(in re-re-release)and "The Yakuza" but I didn't enter the RKO Madison to see it.

Please post your e-mail address here if you want to discuss movies with me off this board.

Mike....You can talk about any movie that played at the Madison. If you want to talk about a movie that didn't play here, find the theater where it did play and take the conversation to that theater page.

Peter...."Lipstick" wasn't a bad movie. Chris Sarandon played the low life rapist. By todays standards, this movie is pretty tame. Maybe Robert or Ed will post an ad with the exact date it played at the Madison.

"Peter...."Lipstick" wasn't a bad movie. Chris Sarandon played the low life rapist. By today's standards, this movie is pretty tame."

I suppose, compared to "Saw" or "Hostel", it is tame. But, generally, there seemed to be far more sex and nudity in films in the early to mid 1970's than there is now, because, I think, those types of R-rated films do not make enough money nowadays. I'm thinking now of a film I saw at the Madison in July 1975 : "The Reincarnation Of Peter Proud", particularly the scenes of Margot Kidder.

"Maybe Robert or Ed will post an ad with the exact date it played at the Madison."

I would enjoy that, and seeing how it compares to my memory.

Perhaps what many found objectionable about the movie Lipstick PKoch was the subject matter and not so much the nudity. Margaux Hemingway brings charges against the rapist but he is not convicted. I presume that would upset many people especially womens rights groups of the 70's. Reincarnation of Peter Proud in 1975 was another movie that many people objected to. Not only for nudity but more importantly the subject of incest. In my opinion the issue of nudity was used to denounce these movies but the subject matter was the most disturbing to many people. For the most part these movies dealt with issues that were not discussed by most people and it both frightened and outraged them. Perhaps it was a sign of the new morality in the 1970's.

Fella's I found a website that has old movies on dvd for low prices. You could get 5 movies for $25.00 Not a bad deal.
http://www.oldies.com/product-view/4113D.html

Good point, mikemovies, about the films "Peter Proud" and "Lipstick", yet, regarding the former, I think many people were also disturbed by the sight of Margot Kidder sitting fully frontally nude in her bathtub, quite obviously masturbating while thinking of how her late husband, who Peter Proud was the reincarnation of, had pleasured her many years ago, despite how he had relationally abused her.

In many ways, movies have grown much tamer since the 1970's in terms of their tackling of complex psycho-sexual and sociological subject matter. Violence in films continues to grow in the other direction - more and more explicit and realistic. But, in Hollywood's never-ending quest to homogenize its product in order to appeal to the broadest possible audience, the frank treatment of human sexuality and discussions of topics widely considered distasteful or offensive has been pushed to the outer margins. Instead, the moviegoing public is fed bowl after bowl of stale and re-heated PG-13 soup.

Well-put, EdSolero. I agree. It doesn't say much for our sense of values. The recent succession of re-makes seems to be a symptom or subset of what you have described.

Much of the nudity was gratuitous to be sure. I would prefer nudity in movies to senseless violence. Horror movies became so graphic that they required an 'R' rating just for the violence. Older sci-fi and horror movies told a story without the gory violence and realism. I enjoy the older movies much more.

Yes, mikemovies, much of the nudity was gratuitous, but at least it was real, not implied, nudity. You actually SAW adult female nipples, and buttocks and genitalia, of both sexes. I prefer that to implied nudity, which I find to be a tease, and hypocritical. I, too, would prefer that to senseless violence. At least you get to see some beautiful nude bodies, without seeing them hacked to pieces by a maniac in a hockey mask.

I agree with you about the older sci fi and horror films, and enjoy them much more. It's like what a friend of mine said about the original b & w "Twilight Zone" : the scariest ones generated an enormous amount of fear and suspense without showing one drop of shed blood.

I majored in gratuity, so if I may...

With Halloween/Dia de los Muertos right around the corner, I just picked up a reasonably-priced reissue: Both versions of "The House on Haunted Hill," '58 B&W & '99 color, both widescreen, for under $10. The first showed at the RKO Madison, Bushwick and Embassy, as I recall. (Peter will remind me that the floating skeleton over our heads was Castle's newest gimmick at that time, "Emergo." Watch.) The remake has Robert Zemeckis's hand on it, so it shouldn't be tooooo too bad. Special Feature extras showed that it, too, had some gratuitous nudity woven into shadows and other strange creatures.

mikemovies, beware of that Oldies site, a.k.a. Nina's and/or Alpha in Norbert, PA. Prices are good. Quality is marginal, at best.

And for anyone wanting a recent movie of quality to sink yer mind and eyeballs into, try "The Last King of Scotland" w/ Forest Whitaker & Gillian ("X-Files") Anderson. Lots of fiction re the young Scot doctor, but a most absorbing and riveting look at the dictatorship of Uganda's Idi Amin.

Thanks, BklynJim. Yes, "Bone-chilling Emergo !"

"You MUST have your blood pressure taken in the lobby before seeing this film."

No, that was "Macabre". Or, as Stephen King and his pals called it, "McBare !" I first mispronounced it as "MACK-UH-BREE".

I saw the 1999 remake of "The House on Haunted Hill" on TV in 2001. I liked the Vincent Price lookalike it included.

I saw something on TV about the Amin film. Forest Whitaker stars as Amin ?

Whitaker IS Amin. Chilling!

The '99 remake's main character was named Price, too. What's neat about this 2-movie WS package is that it includes some promo clips of Castle for several other flicks, such as "Homicidal" & "Macabre."

["...a regular RIOT, Alice!"]

Chilling, indeed, BklynJim, after having enjoyed Whitaker as the host of the 2002-03 UPN 9 Twilight Zone.

A neat two-movie package, indeed. 1961's "Homicidal" was Castle's quick cash-in on "Psycho", itself, I think, inspired by earlier b & w Castle cheapies, as well as the arty 1955 "Les Diaboliques" by Clouzeau.

Yup, Norton. Regular laff riot !

Excuse me, that should have been Georges Clouzot.

As opposed to Inspector Clousseau.

Just posted over on the Whitney Theatre page, but because I wrote a second paragraph about the RKO Madison, thought I should restate it here as well.

"An El Called Myrtle" is a 32-minute color DVD originally shot on film by Mike Boland back in 1969, the last year of the old wooden Q-cars. Boland shot in sequence (and effectively used multiple POVs) from Brooklyn's Bridge-Jay Street terminus to ground-level, end-of-the-line Metropolitan Avenue station in Ridgewood/Middle Village. As the old el cars approached and entered the Wyckoff Ave. station, the viewer can clearly make out the roof and water towers of the Madison.

Can't speak for everyone, but IMHO, I'm pleased that there were photographers around who, for whatever personal reasons they had at the time, were able to archive a piece of NYC theater & transit history for us along the way.

BklynJim, I think I've seen that Wyckoff Avenue el platform / RKO Madison view part of that film at the NYC Transit Museum Store in Grand Central Station in NYC, in June 2002 or 2003.

I have this vague recollection of passing by the Madison Theatre some time after its closure when the ground level was being gutted out and being able to see behind the navy blue boarding out in front and there was some lighting strung inside at night. I just remember being really tempted to sneak inside and carry away a souveneir or two but being to chicken to do it. This was in the early 80s I think when I was a teen and walking home to my grandparents' house on Putnam & Wyckoff. Does anyone remember the transition from Madison Theatre to Odd Lot and the work that was being done inside during that time?

Yes, I have a similar recollection (vague) of when they were gutting the Madison. I also remember looking in, and seeing nothing but "black", and also strings of lights hanging in there. Remember, the Madison was not converted from "The Madison" to Odd Lot. It was converted from The Madison to Consumers first. Consumbers was a Service Merchandise kind of store, where you stand at large table looking at catalogs, see what you want, right it down, and then give a slip to a worker. They then go in the back to get the merchandise item you ordered and bring it to you. Consumers occupied the front part of the building, at least the public part. It only took up perhaps the old lobby area, and I asssume the auditorium was used as the warehouse.
It wasn't until after Consumers closed that the Madison became Odd Lot, and then you could wander into the whole theater area, except they put the fake drop ceiling in the auditorium area, although you could see the roundness outline of the old balcony, just like you can see today in Liberty Dept Store.

At some point the Madison Theater burned, but I don't remember if it was between the Madison Theater and Consumers, or if it was between Consumers and Odd Lot. I believe it was after Odd Lot closed, but don't remember.
Furthermore, after Odd Lot, the Madison theater became "Busy Bee Stores", which was a flea market compartment store. That also didn't last all that long.

I just noticed after all this time that the opening paragraphs of the Madison are wrong. At least the last part of the opening section:

Quote:
I think the current retail space is only in the lobby and I wonder if the whole theater is still intact inside…

That is incorrect, as there is no doubt the Liberty Dept Store takes up way more than just the lobby. You can actually see the old outline of the balcony when in the store, and you can esily see you are in the old auditorium. That should be corrected.

Thanks, Bway, I had forgotten about Consumers. I'm fairly certain the building burned after Odd Lot closed, I remember the old Woolworth's was down the block from there around that time. I also recall hanging around in the Army/Navy recruiting station on that same block. It was up on the second floor and was air conditioned so we kids used to hang out in there to get cool during the summer.

Yes, I also remember that Woolworths on the Madison's block. We used to call that one the "Big Woolworth", because it had the downstairs (where the toys, etc were). We called it the "Big Woolworth" because there was another, smaller one a few blocks over on Myrtle (between Seneca and Onderdonk).

You know, I used to go to the Madison on a regular basis in the 1950s and walked Myrtle Avenue quite a bit but don't really remember a Woolworth's being close to the Madison. There was one further down, past the Ridgewood and on the same side where we shopped often. Is it just my senility or was it put in after the 1960s?

I'm not sure when the second Woolworths near the Madison opened. I don't remember it being there in the 60's. The "original" Woolworths between Seneca and Onderdonk was there in the 50's. Most likely even before the 50's. Next to Woolworths was S.H. Kresge's 5&10 and about one block past Onderdonk Ave was another 5&10 which I think was called W.T. Grants or something similar to that.

As I recall, the Woolworth's near the Madison opened in the summer of 1969. "The Wild Bunch" was playing at the RKO Madison at the time.

PKoch, you have some memory! Not only remember when the Woolworth's opened....but what was playing at the Madison too!
Yes, the "Big Woolworth" had a more modern sign, and looked pretty new in the 70's from how I remember it. The older Woolworths bushwickbuddy mentioned, (which lasted until the end of the Woolworth's chain by the way), still had the original "F.W. Woolworth's" sign right to it's final day. It closed some time in the early 90's, along with what was left of the Woolworth chain back then.
Yes, Kresge's was right next to the old Woolworths, and was the first to close. The one on the next block, between Onderdonk and Forest was a two story 5 and 10 (basement) "Mc Crory's" (It may have been Grants before that, but that was before my time if so). Next to that was some children's store, which also had a downstairs. Currently, "The Fair" which used to be a fixture at the corner of Onderdonk and Myrtle took over the old children's store and Mc Crory's in the mid 90's when they moved from the original corner.

Thanks, Bway. I am grateful to this site as a place to show off and exercise my memory. Remembering Woolworth's and the RKO Madison go hand in hand because they were adjacent to each other.

Thanks for remembering the older five and ten stores on the northern side of Myrtle Avenue, between Seneca and Onderdonk Avenues (Kresge's and Woolworth's) and H.L.Green's / Grant's /McCrory's between Onderdonk and Forest. I think the older Woolworth's lasted into spring 1997, because I remember doing some shopping for my mother there, then.

You could be right PKoch, I remember shopping in Woolworths there when going back to Ridgewood for something, but couldn't place the date. It was after I moved out of the area though. Right after it closed as Woolworths, it became a Foot Locker or Athlete's Foot sneaker store, which didn't last long. Currently, the store has been cut up into two stores, and I think they are a higher end children's clothes store, and I forgot what the other one is. to my surprise, they are both decent looking stores, not the "99 cents" and the like type of stores I usually seem to see coming along Myrtle Ave often times.

I remember the change of Woolworth's to a Foot Locker. Like yourself, I have no clear memory of the two stores it then became.

I also know what you mean about decent-looking stores, as opposed to what my mother used to call "shit shops", which she took as a sign of the neighborhood deteriorating, although even they are better than vacant buildings or empty lots used by junkies as "shooting galleries" or places for the homeless to squat, which was the fear of what the RKO Madison would become, as it stood vacant and unused in 1978 and 1979, before it went back into use as a store.

I'm not as clear as you are as to what stores the RKO Madison became, perhaps because, once it had become a store, I perceived it as "safe", as opposed to the threat I saw it was when it was vacant and derelict, and no longer paid much attention to it, although I passed it every day on the way to and from work, as I used to pass it every day on the way to and from school : first, St. Brigid, then Saint Francis Prep, then Cooper Union. I remember how the RKO Madison's marquee was the first thing I would notice coming up out the subway onto the street at the southeast corner of Myrtle and Wyckoff on my way home. Then, once the marquee was gone, it was other signs hanging over the sidewalk, like the one for the "Joyeria" in spring and summer 1991.

I have a similar recolection of the marquee of the old Gramercy theater on 23rd St in manhattan.....I would pass under it everyday for a year when I used to go to that neighborhood everyday....I can tell you almost every movie that was in there back then, as like you said, I guess you just look up as you walk under, and it all stashes into memory....

I could never shop at that second Woolworth's beginning in the winter of '69-'70. They had installed an electronic high-frequency alarm system that most people were unaware of, but to those of us who could hear those upper frequency pitches, it was piercing enough to cause an instant headache. Nobody mentioned this in the weekend posts, so I thought I'd toss it in to see if anyone else was so affected.

I was never so affected, BklynJim, but thanks for mentioning it.

The McCrory's was a W.T. Grant's in the early 50's and late 40's. In the children's store in the lower level was a barber shop that had a hobby horse for the children to sit in for haircuts. I remember my mother taking my brother there for his haircuts main times, and he was born in 1947. I believe he had his first haircut there ... he had a head full of curls ... I was about 8 when he had them cut ... of course I'm 7 years older than he is lol.

Thanks, bushwickbuddy, for mentioning this detail. I never knew that 5 and 10 had a barber shop in its basement.

My aunt is able to hear a dog whistle BrooklynJim. Perhap's she has the same hearing gift as you. Earplugs could have been a solution to the shopping problem.

No Peter ... the barber shop was in the basement of the children's store ... sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem, bushwickbuddy.

Haven't seen you in a while at "Bushwick Buddies" ... please don't forget about us ... we've got quite a few new "buddies" who are quite vocal.

I was there yesterday. I saw a comment by an Edwin Ramos yesterday posted on one of the photos of my old Ridgewood home. He mentioned he and his parents having lived at 350 and 351 Cornelia Street. I Googled it, and found those addresses were at Irving Avenue. I used to walk by there alot on my way to and from the Irving Branch library. There are recent photographs of the four corners of Irving and Jefferson Avenues, a block away, on the Bushwick Buddies site.

It would be great to do a "then and now" study on Bushwick Buddies with all those old photos of Bushwick from the two Bushwick pages of Brooklynpix.com. Maybe I could start it by posting a link to those photos. Cobblestoned streets, trolleys and trolley tracks, canvas awnings, horse-drawn vehicles, Model T type cars, ladies in long dresses ....

Everyone would certainly be appreciative of that Peter. We've got some of those pixs up as you've seen and they've drawn many comments, to include the one of my house at Central and Eldert. It seems we've got everyone searching through old photos lately. lol

I think it's very instructive to look through those older photos. Some are old enough to show Wilson Avenue as Hamburg Avenue. Later ones from the 1950's show the bulky, round "Sherman Tank" style cars of those days, a certain style of street sign, and the fact that Bushwick wasn't looking bad back then.

One could also make a comparison within those BrooklynPix photos, of, say, Halsey and Bway in 1906 and 1908.

But yes, especially your home at Central and Eldert, with you standing next to it !

That "barber shop" survived into the 70's with the store. I don't remember it still bein a barber shop when I was down there, but I remember a glass enclosed "store within a store" down there in the basement of that children's clothes store, and remember being down there during the going out of business sale. I don't know if that was the late 70's or very early 80's. After the childrens store closed, it became "Michelle's Dept Store" which sold things like curtains, clothes, housewares, etc. They didn't use the basement though, but you could see in the floor where the opening used to be.
Of course today, as I mentioned, both stores were combined (Mc Crory's and that childrens store), and is now where "The Fair" is, which is a higer end linens, curtains, (Bed, Bath, and Beyond-type of store). They don't use the downstairs of either the old McCrory's store or the Childrens stores. I believe because of current ADA (American's with Disabilities) legislation, they are not allowed, as it would not have access to wheelchair or disabled people, and it woundn't be worth the cost to install an elevator of course, so to comply, they just don't have stores with lower levels anymore....

bushwickbuddy said...........You know, I used to go to the Madison on a regular basis in the 1950s and walked Myrtle Avenue quite a bit

Finally someone familiar with the area in the same decade. I worked at Ripley's men's clothes from about'53 to'60. Walked Myrtle Ave from the RKO Keith's, Richmond Hill to the RKO Madison. (Also, vicinity of Navy St and Jay St.from the Myrtle Ave el.) Sounds like we left the area about the same time, early 60s.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Hi Tonino ... I was 13 in 1953 and left Bushwick in 1962 when I got married. I actually lived in "Bushwick" not "Ridgewood" but we did most of our shopping either on Myrtle Avenue or took the Putnam Avenue bus downtown to A&S, Namms Loesers (forgot how to spell it) and of course Bonds and Mays. If you are at all interested in Bushwick with a touch on Ridgewood I have a website called Bushwick Buddies ... PKoch is one of our younger buddies. Most of us are in our 60s and 70s and are sharing memories and pictures from the 40s, 50s and some earlier, and we have current pictures too. If you'd be interested, just drop me a note at eleanor1940@bushwickbuddies.com or take a peek at www.bushwickbuddies.com It is a private site so username and password is required. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Hi Eleanor, I was 16 in '53. I left NY in '61. Grew up in Glendale.

Is Wallabout St, west of Broadway, in Bushwick? I used to help my father in his trucking business when he went to Slattery's Gas Range on Wallabout St every Saturday. It was a few blocks away from Pfizer's. Also, familiar with businesses in Greenpoint which I guess isn't part of Bushwick.

My paternal grandparents lived in Brooklyn, not sure if it was Bushwick (I doubt it) and I don't remember the address.

I never knew there were so many neighborhoods in Brooklyn until just now. http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/localList.php?local=286&locType=neighborhd&direction=down&sec=0&qty=63

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Yes, Eleanor, I am one of the younger "Bushwick Buddies" at age 51. Perhaps "Bway" is the youngest "Bushwick Buddy" of all. One would need to go onto Bushwick Buddies itself to find out, though. Perhaps the age differences don't matter, given that we all have Bushwick and Ridgewood in common.

I once walked through Bushwick and survived. Does that qualify me to join your website? LOL

Indeed it does, Lost Memory. Please join Bushwick Buddies and tell us all about it !

Hey Lost ... if you'd like to join us I'm sure you'd be welcome. I'd get lost if I went back.

Re : returning to Bushwick : perhaps now it's less a matter of getting lost and / or surviving than it is of being able to afford moving back in, at the prices and rents now being charged there, like $ 1,700 a month for a one bedroom apartment at Wilson Avenue and Cooper Street.

So true Peter and there is a picture of an apartment of that type posted on the Bushwick Buddies site.

.....$ 1,700 a month for a one bedroom apartment at Wilson Avenue and Cooper Street.

Ugh, gag, ugh. Who would do that?. I'd be better off paying two or three times that for a flat in the City, No? What are typical rents in some of its more "affordable" areas? There must be some under $60k a year, no?

I'd get a 2nd or 3rd job to live in the City.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Yes, Eleanor, I've seen that picture of that type of apartment on the site.

'Tonino, my reaction precisely. Who's buying and / or renting at those prices ? Who's moving in ? How long can prices continue that high ? I don't know what typical rents are in the more "affordable" areas.

A 2nd or 3rd job to live in the City ?

PKoch... Who's buying and / or renting at those prices ?

I don't know. Maybe Indians? They seem industrious and running convenience stores/gas stations and driving taxis. But I had the impression they had taken over more formerly upscale neighorhoods such as Rego Park along Queens Blvd.

I'd work in a donut shop on off-shift if it would help me to live in the City. Times, and preferences change. Took me 30 years to realize that. Like the man said: "Once you left Mew York, you aint gone no where."

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

RKO Wishes You and Yours a Merry Christmas (1952):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/rko52.jpg

PKoch; for $1,700 per month is the surrounding neighborhood nice. Are these apartments for rent or for sale. If there is a renaissance in the area perhap's one of the closed movie theatre's could be restored. Happy holiday's fella's.

There are apartments both for rent and for sale. The neighborhood has improved, but I am not sure I would feel safe living there again. Good idea about restoring one of the closed movie theaters.
Happy holidays to all !

PKoch, Your opinion re living in Williamsburg, Bklyn confirmed my suspicion. That was why I made my original comment re rental costs there.

Williamsburg, VA is a pricey place too, but an ok place to throw your hat.

Shalom, ciao, excelsior, and Buon Natale

I found a detailed description of the Madison in a 1928 issue of Architecture & Building Magazine. I will try to copy it, and hope that I don't get "timed out" before I've finished: "The exterior is entirely in granite face terra cotta of Classical design. The theatre entrance covered by a marquise is at the center, and to either side of the front is a small store. Back of the entrance lobby, the width of the building is more than doubled, and the auditorium spreads out with the stage at the rear of the building, where there is a court opening to the street. The exits are on either side of the house leading to the court. The auditorium may be entered directly from the lobby or through the foyer which also opens from the lobby and extends the rest of the width of the house. This foyer is of two story height with a stairway at one end which leads to the balcony mezzanine lounge extending across the house with approaches at either end and center to the balcony. The stage is fully equipped for productions of any kind. The house seats 1,593 in the orchestra, 72 in the lower boxes, and 1,106 in the balcony and upper boxes (total of 2,771). The lobby is walled with variegated colored marble and all of the doors and metal work are of bright bronze. The floor has inset rubber mats and the ceiling is in ornamental plaster in a circular design which conforms to the general shape of the room. The floor is on a slight grade from the street to the back of the auditorium. The foyer is walled in marble with a broad stairway of marble leading to the mezzanine lounge. This room is richly decorated with a bright color scheme above the marble base. The mezzanine lounge has a finely vaulted plaster ceiling. The color scheme throughout the approaches and auditorium is harmonized by the use of the same brocaded material in old rose and gold for the wall paneling and by the Chinese patterned carpeting with a field of old rose which is carried throughout. All corridors and stairs are fully carpeted. Low wooden wainscoting of walnut is carried through the various halls. The auditorium is paneled to balcony height with walnut and the upper walls are divided by pilasters of walnut into a series of panels which are filled with old rose and gold brocade. The carpets and chair backs of velvet continue this color scheme. The chair seats are of leather. The rail behind the orchestra seats is of light colored marble. The plaster work is in low relief under the soffit of the balcony and in the flat portion of the ceiling, but the center of the ceiling is formed by a broad flat dome done in low relief. The decoration is in buff and old ivory with the detailed ornament in band courses, medallions and panels finished in gilt. The pendant lighting fixtures are in crystal and gilt but the side wall brackets about the house are done in gilt with hammered German silver reflectors. The orchestra seating is divided by five aisles, one at the center, two intermediate and two at the sides. The side group of seats are further separated by cross aisles which give access to the exits. A similar division of seats is made in the balcony. There are two series of boxes, one at stage level and another at balcony level. The lighting of the house and stage is arranged in four color circuits, red, white, blue and amber with dimmer control. About the face of the balcony there are a series of spot lights with automatically variable color screen control from the switchboards. A similar series of lights is placed in the base of the dome, and at the rear of the balcony is the picture machine booth, which is placed above the approach at the rear of the balcony and so worked into the decorative scheme of the interior that it is unobtrusive. An elevating pit is provided for the house orchestra." Well, I seem to have gotten to the end of it, but don't have time to proofread and apologize for any typing errors that I might have made.

P.S. Here are two images that accompanied the 1928 article. In the view of the auditorium ceiling's flat dome, the chandelier looks considerably smaller than it actually was, due to the camera angle:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/maddome.jpg
www.18.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madboxes.jpg

Wow!!! This is the first time I have seen the interior of the Madison since I was a kid in there in the 1970'!!! Simply BEAUTIFUL!! Thanks so much, I can't believe all that beauty is now all covered or gone. If you go into the Liberty Department store, the curve of the balcony is READILY noticable, as they have a drop ceiling under the balcon, and then you see the curve of the balcony, and just above the plaster on the edge of the balcony, around where the rail would have been is the fake drop ceiling that lowers the height of the ceiling to just above the level where the Balcony edge is in the photo.... And of course the floor has been leveled, so it wouldn's seem as high as it may appear it would in the photo.

BTW, were there any other photos, even if you only keep them up temporarily?

Warren, I really enjoyed the pictures and the '28 description of the Madison.

I'd like to suggest that you break long articles such as this into paragraphs to make it more readable.

'Tonino Kojak Civility Temperance Roma

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior,

The Architecture & Building article did have additional photos, but they were all identical to or very similar to those of the Madison that I posted previously. The links to those images are still active and can be found above in my post dated 6:33 am of July 11th, 2005.

Thanks, Warren and Bway.

The Madison was part of this huge second run in 1964
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/RobinSevenHoods2ndrun.jpg

Cinemascope comes to the Madison for Christmas of 1954
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/TheRobeChristmasDay1954.jpg

Here's a May 2005 photo of the RKO Madison. The facade is most likely intact beneath the overwhelming sign.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/nutrichris/album/576460762353424321/photo/294928803799490470/61

The facade is intact beneath the sign. I noticed that when they put the sign up, that it's pushed outwards to allow for the concrete Gothic adornments above the windows. Interestingly, before Liberty moved in, when the Busy Bee store was there, the facadfe was completely steam cleaned and repointed. Unfortunately it was seen short lived, as Liberty decided to cover it with their huge sign.

The exterior of the Madison appears to be in good condition. The windows were bricked up and the marquee removed but the rest of the building seems fine. I'm still curious how much damage was done by the fire and by the alterations for the various retail stores that used this building over the years. Were the current walls attached to the original walls, or are they "free standing" and easily removed. I would also like to see what condition the original ceiling is in.

So would I!
Actually, the exterior is in such great shape because of when Busy Bee restored the exterior facade. When Busy Bee steam cleaned and repointed (that means repairing the cement mortar between the stones/bricks), they also installed new windows. I don't know if Liberty boarded up those new windows, or just installed the sign in front of them.
The fire probably wasn't as extensive as it may sound. There may be severe soot damage on the original ceiling, but that would be dirty with age and neglect anyway. As long as the roof don't leak (and it appears it is maintained, as they don't want water in their store), tha plaster should be fine. We have to remember that this building, although not a theater, has not been unoccupied for more than a year or two at a time. It never stood abandoned and neglected for too long, so it has been maintained.
It is entirely possible that the original walls exist, and just sheetrock placed in front of them. A perfect example is the Patchogue Theater on Long Island. In the 1950's, they had a fire, and the theater was reopened, "modernized", with sheetrock walls. It was even multiplexed in the 1980's. In the early 1990's, when Patchogue Village was restoring the theater, they tore down the sheetrock only to expose the original, glorious, Ward & Glynne interior! They were able to restore the theater to it's former glory as a performing arts house.
Of course, it's also possible that all the plaster adornment was knocked off to place up the new store walls. But even so, it would probably only be to the fake ceiling height. Above that it is entirely possible even the procenium arch and ceiling remians.

Thank you Bway, NativeForestHiller, and Christina Wilkinson, for these photos and details !

Is Liberty Department Stores leaving, or planning to leave, the former RKO Madison Theater, perhaps permitting an investigation or maybe even a restoration of what's left of the former theater interior ?

It's been a while, but I believe that when a tax search of the NYC tax records was run on the Madison was done, it showed that Liberty Dept Stores is not a tenant, but owns the building.

A NYC Property Search shows that the building is still owned by Liberty Department Stores. The property was evaluated at $3,170,000 for the period 2006/2007, but seems to be declining in value. The tentative figure for 2007/2008 is $3,140,000.

Yeah, I thought the Liberty Dept Store owned the old Madison building, and was not just a tenant. By the way, the Liberty inside the Madison is actually Liberty Dept Stores II. #1 is on Jamaica Ave in Woodhaven, along the el. I don't believe that one is in an old theater though.

As for falling property values, that probably just reflects the minor dip all of NYC has been seeing. They say it will only be a blip though, and nothing major, as the market appears to remain strong in NYC.

At the same time, the Ridgewood Theatre seems to be increasing in value. It was worth $1,990,000 in 2006/07, and is tentatively priced at $2,100,000 for 2007/08, according to NYC Property Search.

True, but it of course is still a theater, so perhaps that has something to do with it. The Madison is just another commercial building at this point, not a theater.

Of course, hopefully I would be wrong, as I would hate to think the Ridgewood would be worth more as a "commercial" building than the theater it still is.

I think you are wrong Bway. I think the assessed value of a property is based upon two major considerations; location and zoning. Within zoning there are particular values associated with building size, construction details, and lot size. I don't know what causes the inconsistency, but suspect it may be due to improvements made to the Ridgewood, relative to no changes for the Madison.

The higher value must be bothersome to the Ridgewood's present owners, as well as prospective buyers such as Allie the film guy. Then again, maybe not.

The Donald
Ever vigilant to the needs of the oppressed.

In the above, I should have said the "increased" value of the Ridgewood..... .. for clarity.

The appraised value of the Ridgewood is about 2/3 of that of the Madison according to values presented by Warren and Bway.

Kojak, for the Donald
In the interest of all that's good

I was in the balcony of the RKO Madison yesterday. I was in Ridgewood, and and figured I'd check out what the Liberty Dept store had for sale while I was on that end of Myrtle Ave.... To my surprise, I noticed that the old Grand Staircase leading up to the balcony was open, and a sign that said, "Come visit our furniture dept on the second floor". They didn't have to invite me twice....so up I went.... There is NO remnant whatsoever of the ornate white marble staircase. At the top of the stairway, they have a straight drywall wall on the left (which does not incorporate the curve of the balcony, so I'd say at least one or two levels of the actually balcony are cut off on the side, and dead space. There was a closed door in this drywall wall. The furniture section's floor is not sloped, but it does have three tiers, with ramps connecting each tier. There is NO remnant of the original plaster ceiling. It's drywall now too. On the other side of the balcony, there was an open OLD door, which led to the other stairway to the balcony, which is a stairwell, quite old, and that leads downstairs. I did poke my head in and the floor is nondescript, and the walls are green painted plaster, which may be original, but there is no ornamentation in the plaster whatsoever, so I am not sure. The the right of that is a, what seems to be, old elevator, the frieght elevator type of things though, so it may only "look" old. The back wall is drywalled too, no evidence of the projection room. What I REALLY wanted to do is open the door in the fake drywall wall facing the stage, as I have a feeling, the open space of the Madison Theater, and the bottom mhalf of the balcony is on the other side of that door......

Thanks, Bway. Sad to read, but thank you for posting this. You are a devoted seeker of what remains of the past.

Why didn't you open that door in the fake drywall ? Alarmed ? Not allowed ?

Please refresh me. Where was the other stairway to the balcony ? Did it come down to the inner lobby, as in the Ridgewood Theater ?

What no longer remains within reflects what one sees without, that western wall, visible from the Wyckoff-Myrtle el station platform, on which "RKO MADISON THEATER" in those big block letters grows ever fainter, and the graffiti, ever bolder, keeps encroaching on it ...

Bway....You found the secret elevator! I used to ride that up to the balcony. Just kidding. LOL

The last permit that I can find for any type of alterations to this building is dated 5/03/1990. Permit #EA 462/90. Permit type: Elevator Application. Thats probably the year that it was installed. Did it appear that the balcony was extended? Was a second floor added or are they just using the original balcony area? I wonder if the Liberty store made those alterations or were they done by a previous retailer. Thanks for posting your findings.

Peter... I don't remember from the theater days where that stairway came down. That second stairway IS original though. No doubt about that (and most balconies did have two (or sometimes more) stairways. I can see the door on the main level which leads to that stairway. From it's positioin downstairs, it appears it came down either in the back right (if facing the stage) part of the theater (similar to how the RKO Keiths in Richmond Hills second stairway did), or it may have came down to the inner lobby. It's hard to tell, as the "store" is one big room, and it's hard to tell where the outer lobby ended, or the inner lobby ended. You can only see where the enge of the balcony was within the auditorium itself.

Lost, no, they did not extend the balcony at all. They actually shortened it (well not physically, but they put a wall up blocking off the curved edge of the balcony out, and perhaps even the lowest level of the balcony). When you get to the top of the stairway, the wall is immediately on your left, whereas in the theater days, you probably had some rows of seating to the left, and of course the curve of the balcony. Picture the letter U the balcony, but you put up a straight line through it where the curve begins, making the U square.

Also, there is NO DOUBT it's the original balcony, and not something rebuilt. They may have platfomed it a bit (thus the three tiers I described) because of course the original balcony would have been sloped, which would of course not lend well to a store use, so thus the three tiers with ramps connecting them. It makes about two aisles of furniture, and then the third tier in the back which was chained off, but nothing was really there either.

Good find on the elevator. I didn't think it was original, but since it was one of those creepy freight elvators, open sort of with mess walls, it "looked" old.

And no, Mae West was not up there.....

Okay, judging from this photo Warren posted:
http://www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2482_IMG.jpg

...the balcony wall upstairs is from where you see that railing on the right half way up (where you come up from the grand staircase), and goes straight through the length of the middle of the balcony. The level in front of that is behind that door I mentioned that I wanted to open. Anything behind that is now the furniture deparment, which they "flattened" by making the three flat tiers out of it.
I still can't figure out where that second staircase would have come down judging by the photo, but I "think" it may have been the extreme right (if facing the stage) of the inner lobby.

Now what exactly is this photo of Warrens? Is that the inner lobby, I can't place it, especially picturing what the interior of the Madison looks like today....
Which way is this facing?
http://www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2474_IMG.jpg

Bway....Its been a long time since I've been in that balcony. Looking at the first photo, I think there was an exit on each side that led to a hallway or landing and that in turn led to the large staircase. From the description you gave of the furniture area in the Liberty Dept. store, it sounds like they removed the rear wall that seperated the seating area from the hallway and made it one open area. The photo really isn't much help. I have no idea what the second photo is showing. It doesn't look familiar to me. Especially all of the plants in the photo. If those plants were there when I was a kid, I'm sure that the plants wouldn't have been standing for very long. LOL

You should have opened that door. You might have caught Eddie and Mae West in an awkward position. :)

Thanks for all the details, Bway and Lost Memory.

When I click on the links to Warren's photos, I get a blank screen titled "blockpage". Maybe my PC's internal censor is somehow picking up the ghost of Mae West and Fast Eddie in an unseemly and compromised position.

Hmmm. I was never in the balcony when the Madison was a theater...only the orchestra level. Lost Memory brought up an interesting point. So what you are telling me is that the Grand Staircase and the other side stairwell, led to a landing/hallyway which then opened into the balcony. I have a feeling that the furniture area may be in that hallyway landing, and not actually the balcony. There were three tiers, but perhaps, they took a wall down towards the back of the hallway to make the area bigger.
I have a feeling, the actually balcony may be both ABOVE and to the right of the furniture area. If you look at the old photo (Peter, it does work, so it must be a problem on your end), there is a left and right entry area with a railing...but there is ALSO a center entrance. Notice that the balcony is both ABOVE and below those entrances. I have a feeling that that door I wanted to open leads to the CENTER entrance of the balcony as seen in the photo, and the entire balcony may still be unuses. That WOULD explain the floor NOT being sloped. I thought they had altered something, but they may not have, and I may not have been in the actual balcony, but that landing instead. I am at a disadvantage, because I don't know the actual layout of what the Madison's balcony originally looked like.
The answer may be to open that door.....

To open that door, Bway, or perhaps the as-built drawings of the RKO Madison can be found on-line somewhere.

The last time I remember being in the balcony of the RKO Madison was August 2, 1968 for "The Green Berets", starring John Wayne, David ("The Fugitive")Jannsen (sp ?) and George Takei.

Maybe we should just go to Cypress Hills and ask Mae West, haha.

I don't mean to be Warren, Bway, but please let's not risk invoking Fast Eddie again !

The correct spelling of the name of the actor who played "The Fugitive" is David Janssen.

PKoch who is Fast Eddie. Do you mean Fast Eddie in the 'Hustler' movie. Fella's you can read about Ridgewood at Wikipedia. There is a photo of Myrtle avenue. The RKO Madison Theatre can be seen in the photo. Perhap's you will find it interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridgewood,_Queens

I just want to make a slight correction to Warren's post of Feb. 11, 2004 concerning vaudeville at the Madison being discontinued in 1932. It was still around in the mid forties when I was a kid as I remember the sign advertising it, though it was on Tuesday nights only. Of course, in addition to that there was the double feature. You certainly got your money's worth! I also remember the live chicken market (which was replaced by a diner eventually) in the triangle across the street from the Madison. I think that was still there well into the fifties.
oodygdin

When I said that vaudeville was discontinued in 1932, I meant that it was no longer presented as part of the everyday house policy. In later years, the Madison, like many of the larger RKO theatres, sometimes presented vaudeville on one night in the middle of the week to hype business. This was a much lower grade of vaudeville than in the "old days," and most of the performers worked for about $25 per night or less, depending on their experience.

You're probably right about the quality of the vaudeville, Warren. I remember meeting a friend of one of my parent's friends once who claimed she appeared as a singer every once in a while at the Madison in the vaudeville. As a child I was impressed, but we later found out she was an amateur and had a regular day job doing something totally different. Of course that doesn't mean she might not have been talented anyway. BTW I noticed the Bushwick boys site mentioned above. Does anyone know an equivalent site for former Ridegewood boys?
oodygdin

Hi oodygdin ... Bushwick Buddies not only includes loads of guys and gals from Bushwick, but many, many from Ridgewood and Glendale ... so if you would like further information, please check out our public login page at www.bushwickbuddies.com and then contact me at eleanorctr@aol.com We'd love to have you join us ... there are lots of memories of the Madison and the Ridgewood and of the live Chicken market at the site. Let's face it ... there are many streets that were considered either Bushwick or Ridgewood and we overlapped a lot ... so check us out ... and that goes for anyone else who would like to learn more about Bushwick or Ridgewood.

$25/night was a lot of money in the mid 40s, and a lot more a decade earlier. Headliners of the old days, 1900 ?, made $4,000/week. before Bob Hope, George Burns,etal.

And as for the link; Beginning in Boston in 1883, Benjamin Franklin Keith and Edward F. Albee used the fortune they made staging unauthorized productions of Gilbert and Sullivan operettas to started build a chain of ornate theatres across the northeastern United States. Stealing Pastor's format, they instituted a policy of continuous multiple daily performances, which they called "vaudeville."
Fascinating stuff here:
http://www.musicals101.com/vaude1.htm

$25 per night wasn't a lot of money for a performer of any merit in the 1940s, which were boom times for showbiz. The majority of the performers who played those one-nighters at RKO and Loew's theatres didn't get even that. Pity the double or group acts that had to split the fee between them.

But you were talking about vaudeville performers who put up with demanding schedules; - two a day for Keith, three a day for Loew, Pantages four a day, plus the supper show. Even those who did not reach the level of headliner could make good money. In 1919, when the average factory worker earned less than $1,300, a small time Keith circuit performer playing a forty-two week season at $75 per week earned $3,150 a year.

Women, uneducated immigrants, the poor – anyone with determination and a talent to entertain could earn a solid, respectable living. Few other fields could claim to offer the disadvantaged such accessible rewards in the early 20th Century.

More than 25,000 people performed in vaudeville over it’s 50-plus years of existence, working their way through the three levels defined by the trade newspaper Variety –

"Small time" – small town theatres and cheaper theaters in larger towns. Performers made as little as $15 a week in the early years, closer to $75 over time. These often crude theatres were the training ground for new performers, or the place for old-timers on the skids to eke out a few final seasons.
"Medium time" – good theaters in a wide range of cities, offering salaries of up to a few hundred dollars a week. Performers seen here were either on the way up or on the way down.
"Big Time" – the finest theaters in the best cities, using a two performance-a-day format. Most big time acts earned hundreds per week, and headliners could command $1,000 a week -- or far more.
....... http://www.musicals101.com/vaude1.htm

"Tonino," as usual, you're trying to distort what I said. I was talking about the one-night stands that vaudevillians did at RKO and Loew's theatres in the 1940s and early 50s. They usually did only one performance per night. It was an entirely different system from the heyday of vaudeville, whether it was vaudeville alone or vaudeville in support of movies. When the Madison opened until 1932, there were usually three to four stage shows daily, depending on the day of the week...You don't need to quote "musicals 101" to me. I have been a contributor there for years, and am acknowledged as such at the website.

I think the live chicken market and gas station on the triangle formed by Myrtle and St. Nicholas Avenues and Woodbine Street lasted until the fire right before Christmas 1965 that destroyed the Ridgewood Gardens Chinese Restaurant that used to be across Myrtle Avenue from the chicken market. Then the chicken market and gas station gave way to an unfinished hole in the ground, with naked steel girders in it, which my parents and other Ridgewood residents joked about whenever they passed it on the street. The unsightly wooden square scaffolding across the street, by what had been the Ridgewood Gardens Chinese Restaurant, my father sardonically referred to as Ridgewood's equivalent of the Arc De Triomphe in Paris, France. My first memory of eating in the diner that replaced the chicken market was summer 1968.

The last time I saw a movie from the balcony of the RKO Madison may have been "The Odd Couple" in summer 1968, rather than "The Green Berets". I am not sure which I saw first. The last film I saw at the Madison, "Lipstick", in June or July of 1976, I went to the men's room on the balcony level (its window was at the western side of the building's facade) but did not watch the movie from the balcony.

I believe it was Fred Allen who once referred to television (TV) as "tired vaudeville".

Peter ... where have you been ... we've missed you at the website ... is everything OK? Chris has added so many new and wonderful pictures in the past few months. It seems that you haven't been there since January or February. Hope things are well with everyone. Hope to see you soon. Eleanor

Eleanor, thanks for asking. I will be back on Bushwick Buddies soon. I was hindered from returning by a compulsory computer upgrade on November 20, 2006. I will need to re-register when I return.

The last Bushwick stuff I looked at was the week of November 20, not on Bushwick Buddies, but on BrooklynPix.com : some new and improved Bushwick pages that Chris was kind enough to send me a link to. Some photos dated from 1896 and 1906.

Peter

Warren originally said that after 1932 "vaudeville was a much lower grade than in the "old days," and most of the performers worked for about $25 per night or less, depending on their experience. "

I merely stated that $25 was a hell of a lot of money in the 40s and a lot of money in the 40s, compared to what the average guy made.

It was Warren who on May 14th changed the context from old time performers to "performers of merit". He then became obsesed with defending what he considered to be the poor pay of mostly poor
performers, and he also changed the context to include goups of performers and most importantly performers outside of vaudevlle.

I make a last effort to put the facts in perspective, and he goes tilt.

Shalom, ciao and excelsior

Warrin presumes to know everything yet his babbling testifies to his true ignorance on many topics. When he posted that vaudeville was discontinued in 1932 many people presume he means there was no more vaudeville after 1932. Speak english fella. In general show biz people earn more money then the average worker even in vaudeville times that would be true.

During the heyday of vaudeville, "Tonino" and "mikemovies" would have been the ideal "freak act." I can picture them now playing split weeks and one-nighters in the hinterlands on the Fally Markus Circuit, the last resort for performers who couldn't get employment elsewhere.

Tsk, tsk. Name calling again Warren. I would have expected you to play those gigs as a plate-spinner who was funny because he was so lousy...and when they hooked him off-stage.

You know the type, never cleared more than $1.45 from a perfomance. Fortunately a nickel brought a lot of plates from the 5 and 10; fake plates, like his character, not crystal. Despite his unintentional comic relief, he was never invited to the Ed Sullivan or Johnny Carson shows.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

"You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?"

- Bob Dylan, "Ballad Of A Thin Man", 1965

I doubt Dylan knew Warren. But I suppose a latter day Mr Jones could be Warren.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Perhap's it is true that $25 per night wasn't a lot of money for a performer of any merit in the 1940s. $2.50 per night would have been over payment for no talent Warren. The trained animal act would earn more then him. haha

"Freak act" was a legitimate term in vaudeville, and not intended to be derogatory. Even the great Babe Ruth was called a "freak act" when he attempted a vaudeville career as a monologist. The most legendary "freak acts" are probably the Cherry Sisters, evangelist Aimee Semple MacPherson, and deaf-blind-mute Helen Keller (who, with assistance from mentor Anne Sullivan, played the Palace on Broadway, demonstrating lip reading and answering questions from the audience). Many more are discussed under "Freak Acts" in Anthony Slide's comprehensive "The Vaudevillians: A Dictionary of Vaudeville Performers."

If the quote fits ...

If the quote fits ....

What was your act fella swallowing goldfish. Perhap's a quote from an Abbott & Costello routine will sum up the comments made by Warren. Abbott- Now, that's the first thing you've said right. Costello- I don't even know what I'm talking about!

There you go again Warren, attempting to weasle out of a previous statement. Trying to legitimize his earlier use of "freak acts", by now including acts such as Babe Ruth and Ruth Keller. I contend they would be more accurately called "celebrity acts". The Cherry Sisters fit the term since they are sometimes referred to as the worst act in vaudeville; yet they were in the business for decades, pulling down $1k a week.

I can accept "freak act" as a legitimate term. I must howver take exception to your statement that you did not intend it to be derogatory. By addressing it to mike and myself and saying that it was the last resort for performers who couldn't get employment elsewhere, your intent was quite clear.

I must also add that an unintentionally funny plate-spinning act could also be categorized as a "freak act", ie- anyone acting crazy or silly, rather than a balancing act.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Who's on first ?

What's on second ?

Naturally !

Mae West

Fast Eddie

Better than Coca Cola.

This really belongs on the Ridgewood page.

Have you posted it there yet ?

No, said Mae West balcony was in the Madison Theater. I hope she enjoys sitting in the couches now for sale in the Liberty Dept Store's furniture dept in the balcony.

No. Takes too long to load. And actually, mikemovies' open question to you re FastEddie is on this page. It appears that all Fast Eddies posts have been removed???

Yes, along with my witty rejoinders about the Priapic Theatre.

Thanks, Bway. Now I know where to look for Mae West !

Say, big boys, why don't we go up there and see her some time ?

Warren may call Tonino and myself a freak but at least we are not fibber's that claim to have photo's of the Ridgewood Theatre that he never actually had. I would rather be called a freak then a fibber anyday. Perhap's we could take a tour of the Liberty Dept Store. I would very much like to meet Mae West. haha

mikemovies, let your freak flag fly while doing so !

"mikemovies," I had second thoughts about displaying the Ridgewood photos when I discovered how rare and valuable they are. If you think that I would post them on the Internet for all the world to copy, you must be even loonier than I believe. Certifiable, in fact!

Let's stay on topic, guys.

mikemovies -- I've had to warn you several times in other threads. I don't want to see another comment from you about Warren.

They're off-topic... and starting yet another flame is a good way to get yourself banned.

"Freak" as in "freak act" means something unusual or unexpected. Freak acts were comparatively few and usually topped the vaudeville bills. Jugglers and acrobats were among those considered "novelty acts," of which there were hundreds if not thousands. Every vaudeville bill had novelty acts filling some of the slots. Although the stage shows at Radio City Music Hall were almost entirely performed by a resident stock company, they usually included a novelty act hired from the outside.

Has anyone given any serious thought as to what the economics of turning the RKO Madison Theatre from its present use as a Liberty Department Store into a multiplex cinema would be : the cost and the payback, in terms of new movie goers ?

Since the Ridgewood Theatre is still operating as a multiplex, and there's also a brand-new multiplex in nearby Atlas Park, I don't think there would be any financial sense whatsoever in turning the Madison into a multiplex. Even if the Ridgewood was to close, which it probably will eventually, it wouldn't make any sense to replace it with the Madison. The Ridgewood seems to be barely existing, and I think it's due more to its location than to its rundown condition. The commercial district of Ridgewood has lost its allure as a destination for shopping and entertainment.

Amortization of procurement and renovation costs, together with continuing operating costs could NOT be paid back within a 20 year period as I recall. It was a limited study I did back in '85 on my trusty MacSE. I assumed three screens, but don't recall any other details. I don't know if I can recover a hard copy of the spreadsheet, summary, and conclusions.

Given the success of the Loew's Paradise http://cinematreasures.org/theater/900/ and similarity of the neighborhoods, if I were to do a study today, my first option would be to restore the Madison into its former single screen glory.
The analysis would be more complicated because, I'd consider diverse engagements such as concerts, plays, and movies. Somewhat like alley the film guy "envisions" for the Ridgewood,except I'd be serious about putting money behind my mouth.

Unfortunately, I don't have the passion to pursue it because I don't believe Ridgewood is a viable neighborhood. But then, I probably would have said the same thing about the Paradise.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

I think Ridgewood and Bushwick still are viable neighborhoods, with help having been on the way in the form of the gentrification of Bushwick over the past five or so years, and I am thinking also of the scarcity of movie theaters for about five miles in every direction from the Ridgewood and Madison, with the sole exception of the Atlas Park Multiplex two miles to the east northeast, which, however, seems much too upscale and too far away from the Ridgewood Theatre (and the Madison, were it to re-open as a cinema) to draw much business away from it, anyway.

I certainly hope the Ridgewood Theater does not close, given its history, and the fact that it observed, only five months ago, albeit quietly, its 90th anniversary as a functioning cinema.

What about the recent revival and success of the Loew's Jersey City, as well as the Paradise, in the Bronx ?

Returning the Madison Theater to it's original magnificance as a single screen and then having live concerts and stage shows and again using it for the graduation exercises of the various high schools in the area would be a tribute to the comeback that is happening in the Bushwick area. If the homes are selling for $500,000+ there must be money in the area and from what I have been seeing there is much construction going on ... and what could be better than a wonderful theater on the scale of Radio City ... right there on the Bushwick/Ridgewood border ... only a thought.

Thanks, bushwickbuddy, for reminding me of local school graduations held at the RKO Madison. I recall that J.H.S. 93Q - Ridgewood Junior High, still open for business up on Forest Ave. between Madison & Woodbine - used it from at least '66 up to about '75 or so (that I'm aware of). Man, that sure jogged my memory vaults...

Thanks, Eleanor and BklynJim. One question : homes are selling for $ 500,000 in Bushwick, but who is buying ? Who is paying $ 1700 a month for a one bedroom apt. at Wilson Avenue and Cooper Street, where my great-grandparents Koch lived, seventy to eighty years ago, probably paying $ 25 a month for rent ?

bushwickbuddy, a good thought. But as in real estate: location, location,location.. In retrospect, I have to correct myself and say I would have had the foresight in the 90s to give the Paradise a thumbs up, in contrast to the Madison. Ridgewood and the Bronx may be similar neighborhoods, but Myrtle Avenue is not the Grand Concourse. And as great as we both think the Madison was, it never was a Loew's Paradise.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Ridgewood is not at all comparable to the Bronx. There is some strange notion here that Ridgewood "got bad". While it was always a working class neighborhood, it was never "bad" like Bushwick became in the 70's. In Ridgewood, 99% of it's housing stock is intact, and it was never swept with fires, arson, abandonment, and destruction that Bushwick faced. Ridgewood held strong through all of that. Again, a fancy neighborhood it's not, but it certainly was never "the South Bronx" either, it was right from the beginning a working class neighborhood, and still is.

That being said, I don't see it viable, as nice as it would, for the Madison to ever come back. We have to remember that it has been gutted, it's not like it's all still there. Some of the ceiling detail, and upper open space above the fake ceiling of the store may still be up there (may being the key words, as it even burned once in there), but all the lower portion of the theater has been ripped out, and the sloped floor even filled in to make a straight level floor for the store. All the plaster is gone. All the marble is gone, all the ornamental railings are gone. While the shell of the building remains, that's all what remains unfortunately. The Ridgewood, which was not half as fancy as the Madison however does have a lot intact, hoever, even so, a lot was lost or damaged through the multiplexing, but you'd have more of a shot of restoring the Ridgewood than the Madison. It's a shame what's happened to the Madison, but i don't see anyone ever coming up with the money need to restore the interior, as it would be from starting from scratch, and it couldn't possible be a profitable venture, so you will not get that type of investment. There are theaters that are completely intact (like the Lowes Kings in Flatbush) where they it needs millions in repair, and the theater is intact, even if closed and empty for 30 years....and they are having trouble finding an economically viable group to renovate and use that theater. Even the Keith's in Richmond Hill which is completely intact would be hard to have someone come in there and convert it back to a theater again, and all the old features are still there at least.
Unfortunately, if the Madison survived another decade, it may have at least been intact, but unfortunately, with the amount of damage and destruction that was done inside of the Madison, I don't think it would even be able to come back if it was in manhattan.

How does that theater compare with the only theater with the name Madison that's still open (the NJ theater owned by Clearview)?

You're probably right, Bway, and thanks for all the details, but I wanted to bring the idea up anyway, partly because I'd never seen it discussed here, and partly to get back on topic.

Thanks also for your rebuttal of the "strange notion" that Ridgewood "went bad", and is no longer a viable community.

I think it would be too expensive to restore the Madison. If the Madison was restored and movies were shown there, the Ridgewood Theater would most likely be forced out of business. As a live venue, maybe the Madison could coexist with the Ridgewood. Who would want to invest a large sum of money to restore the Madison? Even if I still lived in Ridgewood, I wouldn't invest a large sum of money on that building. Let the Madison Theater rest in peace and hope that the Ridgewood Theater can continue to survive.

Thanks for getting things back on track Peter. There seems to be alot of "derailments" on this page. ;)

You're welcome, Lost Memory. And thank you for YOUR thoughts.

All I can add is that the Madison and Ridgewood Theaters DID coexist for as long as the RKO Madison was in the business of showing movies and / or having live shows, about a month shy of fifty years, from its opening shortly after Thanksgiving Day 1927, to its closing around Halloween 1977.

What prevailing economic conditions in those fifty years allowed both theaters to so co-exist for so long, and so close together, not only with each other, but for part of that time, with smaller theaters such as the Parthenon, Acme, Majestic, Grandview and Belvedere ?

Peter, it was a different time that allowed them to coexist. This is not a Ridgewood or NYC phenomena, it's a nationwide phenomena. Most old theaters went out of business. It's just not viable unfortunately anymore to have single screen large theaters. The movie theater industry survived because of the multiplexes, which at least can be profitable. it's very hard for a 2500+ large theater to survive nowadays as a single screen theater, or be profitable.

I've enjoyed the recent discussions here. In a brief segment of a novel nearing completion, the years 2014-15 are devoid of both single screen or multiplex theaters. Movie-making as an industry has dried up in the country, fractured and impoverished.

However, there are still a few resourceful entrepreneurs who develop small movie-art houses in which the old films can be shown. As displayed on one marquee, "Remembering 1953" offers cartoons, a newsreel, coming attractions, a chapter serial and a grade-B sci-fi feature, in B & W (natch!), delighting an audience of tomorrow.

Survival is on all their minds - in that particular future, and as it has always been...

Jim, I don't believe the movie industry has at all dried up....go to any random multiplex, and they are packed on most Friday or weekend nights. It's far from devoid of interest.

Jim, I don't believe the movie industry has "dried up" at all. Visit any multiplex on Firday or Saturday evenings, or on weekends, and they are packed tyo the rafters.

I agree with you, Bway. Don't forget that certain movies that open on days other than Fridays can lure big crowds, as is the case with summer and winter movie events.

i don't know when it changed but, back in the day movies wood start

on weds...they changed to fri so bad reviews tv and papers and word

of mouth couldn't kill a picture before the week end..

also, they did't have multiplex playing a movie from 1st week

in a 500 seat theatre and when it left down to a 50 seat theatre

in same place...a picture at ua/rko/ or what have you wood open

in a flagship theatre...ie: cinema bayshore for one or two weeks

then go to the rialto in patchogue...and if it opened at the patchogue

went to the regent bayshore...then an underbelly run in the summer

at a drive in...no vcr or dvd back then..

do any of you know if there is a back door in the stores

that can get you in the madison?

some time last year i mentioned i was the last manager under rko when

it was closed in 77..the office was on 2nd floor over looking marquee. balcony was closed all that time...
coal was the heat like in most old theatres back then..
when you closed at nignt you would load up furnace with coal
on top of the hot coals then wet them down...by the time they would
dry out and start to burn [12 hours later] in time to heat the theatre..

just a little fun fact or not...wally

The old emergency exit doors on the main level are still there, and they are usually open for loading and unloading of merchandise. The store takes up most of the old theater.

Bway, in the words of Dizzy Dean, I must have "slud" one past you. When I indicated the condition of multiplexes and the movie industry, it was only within the context of my fictitious novel, "Boulevard," projected several years in the future. It may well never happen...

Guy, demand yer money back from the Evelyn Woods School of Speed Reading! LOL! ;)

Oh, okay....also excuse the double post....I thought my original post didn't post, so wound up retyping it, but then it turned out my original one did post too.....

Thank you all for your input. I have heard that now, multiplex cinemas have to compete with, and may already be in danger from, home computer game, and home theater entertainment, systems.

Yet, with a block-buster film, like "Spiderman III" nowadays, the multiplexes tend to return to the state of the single-screen theater, showing the same film on 3 or 4 screens. In that case, almost half of the screens and seats in the multiplex can be occupied by one film, yet with several times more screenings per day, and evening, of said film, than was possible with the older single-screen theater.

That's one of the benefits of a multiplex as opposed to a single screen theater.... Many of the multiplexes have to keep on their toes too, as competition is fierce. Many of the older multiplexes (1980's, early 90's) are having a hard time competing against the newer modern ones with stadium seating, etc. Many newer ones now also offer mall like food services, and full service bars within the theater, many with outdoor patios, and a bar atmospehere, or "real" food, as opposed to concessions. Many of these delux multiplexes are trying to become a destination as an entire evening, as opposed to only one part of an evening. And these theaters are packed anytime I have gone to them...there's still plenty of call for seeing a movie in a theater enviroment, it's just that the demographics, and the way theaters present themselves has changed.

If a 2,000-seat theatre gave five performances per day of the same movie, it could accommodate up to 10,000 people per day. If that theatre was divided into four screens of 500 seats each, and they all showed the same movie five times a day, the maximum attendance would still be 10,000.

Thanks, Bway and Warren.

Is Atlas Park Cinemas in Glendale a good example, Bway, of the newer modern multiplexes you've referred to above ?

The Ridgewood may not be "modern", but it's probably one of the, if not THE, cheapest movie ticket in NYC and vicinity.

I am not sure, I have never been to the Atlas Park yet. National Amusements has a few of them, they call them "Cinema de Lux".

As for "still accomodating" 10,000, that may be true, but most theaters are not going to have 10,000 people coming to see the same movie. And even if they would, the movie would be staggered at half hour or hourly intervals, something they couldn't do as one screen. Furthermore, obviously, they aren't going to be cutting it up into 4 screens and then showing not only the same movie in every theater, but certainly wouldn't be showing them all at the same time even if they were. While often they may show a popular movie in two, perhaps three auditoriums (in a large multiplex), the real point of multiple screens is to show multiple movies, or at least one or two at staggered times.

With the more popular movies, the trend at multiplexes seems to be towards showing the same film on as many screens as possible. The other day I passed a five-screener that had the new "Shrek" on four of its screens. I would not be surprised to find the next "Pirates of the Caribbean" on all five.

Well, again, they can stagger them every hour or 45 minutes apart, thus getting anyone that wants to see the movie, and not loosing them to other theaters... In a normal 2000 set-up, they could only show let's say a 2:45 hour movie every 3 hours or so (depending of course on the length). People that want to see in between that would go to a different theater (if available). This way, they get them all. Still way more flexible having 4 500 seat theaters (for example) than one 2000 seat theater.

Well, again, they can stagger them every hour or 45 minutes apart, thus getting anyone that wants to see the movie, and not loosing them to other theaters... In a normal 2000 set-up, they could only show let's say a 2:45 hour movie every 3 hours or so (depending of course on the length). People that want to see in between that would go to a different theater (if available). This way, they get them all. Still way more flexible having 4 500 seat theaters (for example) than one 2000 seat theater.

Does anyone remember a large theatre (along the lines of the Madison) on the corner of Wyckoff and either Weirfield or, more likely, Centre? I used to see it from the Putnam trolley back in the 40s and looked on Local.live but there's no semblence of the building left.

No, oodygdin, I don't know anything about this theater, on Wyckoff, at either Weirfield or Centre St. I would like to know more about your Putnam trolley rides. I assume you mean the No. 26 trolley, the predecessor of the B-26 bus between Ridgewood and downtown Brooklyn, which runs on Halsey Street between either Bedford and Nostrand Avenue in Bed-Stuy, and Wyckoff Avenue in Ridgewood.

Are you sure you don't mean the Alhambra Theater, which used to be at the eastern corner of Halsey Street and Knickerbocker Avenue ? The 26 trolley would have gone past it. There IS a page for this theater on this site. I don't recall the number offhand right now.

oodygdin, as far back as I can recall (I've been in and to Ridgewood since mid-November 1955) the northeast side of Wyckoff Avenue between Weirfield and Centre has always been three to six family houses, with some storefronts and garages at street level. The western corner of Wyckoff and Halsey has always been a gas station, and, back in the 1930's, a diner. The southern corner is now the Red Carpet Inn, a motel. I'm not sure what was there before the motel (I should : I've been there enough : perhaps Bway can help me out here)probably more houses, but I don't think it was ever a theater, otherwise I would have noticed.

oodygdin, living in Ridgewood as I did from mid-November 1955 to the end of May 1999 (on Cornelia between Cypress and Wyckoff), if there had been a movie theater at Wyckoff and Weirfield, or Centre, I would have known about it, and my family and I almost certainly would have gone there, as well as to the Madison and to the Ridgewood.

I don't remember what was at the corner of Halsey and Wyckoff before they built the Red Carpet Hotel. But I think it was just regular old buildings, perhaps with stores on street level.

Thanks, Bway.

I don't think there ever was a theater at Wyckoff and Weirfield, or Centre, or else you and I and many other Ridgewoodites would have known about and discussed it.

Yes, it must have been the Alhambra. I tried to think back to the late 40s when my mother took me down to Sunday School and Church on the Putnam trolley and I was sure I remembered the theater being at one of the turns onto or off of Wyckoff. But I guess I was wrong as looking at the remains of the building via Local.live I see that it fits what I remember - a corner building with a corner entrance and marque. We also used that line to get to downtown Brooklyn when I went to the optometrist and optician in the Williamsburg Bank building.

Yes, oodygdin, the trolley / bus lines between Ridgewood and downtown Brooklyn thru Bushwick and Bed-Stuy were / are the 26, 38, 52 and 54.

I lived in Glendale from 1965 to 1997, but still reside in Queens, and attended the Oasis and Ridgewood , during the 70's, but unfortunately, never attended The Madison. After reading the postings I feel I missed out, on history and experience, for some reason, don't know why,I was so close yet so far. I was impressed with the descriptions of this theater, I did not search all of them, but a friend who attended told me there was a fountain..in the lobby!Can anyone elaborate on this? A previous posting has said that there are no remnants of the old theater, perhaps because of fire damage, and the ornate front facade is obscured by a large sign. I'm so curious about what I missed, that I'm planning to visit the defunct theater, now a department store, just to say I've been there!I cant believe a gem like this is not landmarked!

Panzer65, I don't recall there ever being a fountain in the lobby of the RKO Madison, though there very well may have been one there, before, or even during, my attendance there, 1961 through 1976.

Do you recall WHY you never saw films at the Madison ?

You feel you may have missed out, yet, you can read our memories of having seen films at the Madison on this page.

I'm glad you're planning to visit the Madison, to see what's left of it. Bway has posted about this in great detail, specifically, that mysterious door upstairs that he might have opened, yet didn't.

The Madison never having been landmarked, and, as a result, now mostly lost, probably had a great deal to do with the present zeal and interest in getting the Ridgewood Theater landmarked before it, too, stops showing films, and becomes a store.

Hafta echo PKoch's initial comment: no recollection at all of a fountain in the RKO Madison's lobby. (Not even sure they provided us with a drinking fountain.) Didn't the RKO Keith's in Flushing have one? ["HANG HUANG!" is still the battle cry over there for his recent desecrations.]

Thanks, BklynJim.

How has Huang been desecrating the RKO Keith's recently ?

I don't remember a fountain in the Madison theater lobby either. Maybe there was a fountain when the Madison was new. If you decide to visit the Liberty Dept. store, be sure to say Hi to Eddie and Mae upstairs. :)

Thanks for your reply PKoch,my answer to why I never saw films at the Madison, from what I can recall, since I was a pre teen at the time my mother resricted my roaming in the neighborhood. She was concerned that something would happen to me if I passed Cypress Ave, (which borders Ridgewood Theater, been there 100 of times) She kind of scared me into not going that far into Ridgewood, thus missing out on a theater that I really should have been to. My mother was being overprotective, I guess I should feel fortunate for that. I have proceeded to read every posting and have a "roadmap plan" to follow. "Bway" has inspired me to visit it today, and view whats left of what I should have seen back in the 70's. If it did not burn in '78 more remnants would be intact. According to Bwy's description, Its throughly sheetrocked, perhaps covering the fire damage.

By recent, Peter, I meant within the year (summer '06) as reported in CT posts by Ed Solero, DaveBazooka & others. Sorry for the confusion. Besides, I kinda like the alliterative ring of "Hang Huang."

PKoch, Brooklyn Jim,Lost Memory,
Thank you for your replies concerning the possibility of a fountain being in The Madison's lobby. I am following up on my friends statement about its possible existence, he was there in the 70's, perhaps he may have confused this feature with another theater. I loved the pictures of Madison's interior,in a lot of ways, it appears to be an attempt, to outdo the Ridgewood, which was stated in prior posts. Their configuration seem identical, but Madison's balcony area appears much larger than Ridgewoods. Also Madison's got the edge on the ornate features,and seating capacity.Sadly, since this beauty has been altered,many small features that I enjoy looking at are gone,the photos only touch the elegant design this theater once had.
LOst Memory, i will say hello indeed, to Mae and Eddie.

Thanks, BklynJim and Panzer65, for your replies. Yes, "Hang Huang" has a good alliterative ring to it. Depending on how Huang is hung, that may give us something interesting to hang him by ...

Panzer65, I know all about overprotective mothers ... west of Cypress Avenue ... I lived southwest of Cypress Avenue, so, for me, it was west of Wyckoff Avenue, under the el, in deepest, darkest Bklyn, that was no longer "safe" ... Bway has mentioned his childhood perception of "unsafe lower Ridgewood" as being south of Myrtle Avenue.

Feel free to plumb my memory of my RKO Madison movie-going, as I've posted it on this page.

Pkoch, Thanks for your reply concerning the various areas of Ridgewood and their "liabilities".

Concerning the fountain in Madison's lobby, I never got a follow up call concerning this matter, I did however read in prior postings that The RKO Keith's on Northern Blvd. did indeed have a fountain.The page even included a photo of the ornate and unusual fountain located in the lobby. The fountain was removed in later years towards Keith's demise, and is rumored to be in a Greenwich Village eatery. What can we say about Mr. Huang? A shady developer, who apparently is disrespectful of others, the environment, and above all ,historic structures. He is relieved of ownership of Keith's but should do jail time for his heinous crimes. Hang em' high!

You're most welcome, Panzer65. My pleasure.

I will leave Mr. Huang where he and all of us belong : in the hands of God. I hope the condition of the former RKO Keith's of Flushing improves in spite of Mr. Huang. I hope you find that fountain some day.

Hello friends, well as I previously posted, I intend on visiting the former Madison, and as luck has it, well it was not a sell out, but I attempted to go on a Sunday and low and behold I was done in by a sign of the times...No Parking!! I circled five times and had enough..but..I parked in the hydrant placed to the right and got out and stood beside that grand palace..briefly of course and gazed..that white facade looked distinct, only to have a drab sign placed over the front. I did notice the fire exit door on Madison's balcony level was bricked up, I hope to see the other side on my next attempt,and i must say that the fire escape has been removed, a clue to me that the balcony may be altered. I felt the same way as I did in my Oasis post, the anticipation seeing that big building, and knowing you were going to a place you know you would enjoy yourself. I feel like Madison theater's last fan!!

Good work, Panzer65 ! I commend you. You are ONE of the Madison Theater's last fans ... Bway and I are others.

While you were there, did you get a view of the RKO Madison's western wall from the platform of the Wyckoff Avenue station of the Myrtle Avenue elevated (M) line ? "RKO MADISON THEATRE" in block letters on top is growing ever fainter (like our memories of the Madison, perhaps ?) while the graffiti on the bottom of the wall, near the roofline of the adjacent building to the west, is growing ever bolder and more garish.

PKoch....they took the Wyckoff Tower down from the el last weekend from what I heard....another end of an era. While I would assume the view to the Madison from the station is enhanced, it must be strange without the tower there.

Thanks, Bway. Why was the tower taken down ? Yes, it must look strange without it. I don't think it ever blocked the view of the Madison much.

They used to use the old tower for offices. It wasn't used as a tower in many decades, perhaps since the express track was removed. It was however used for offices all these years. Those offices have since been moved into the brand new station building they just completed recently, so the tower is a casualty of the new station building....

Thanks, Bway. It makes sense. By "new station building", you mean the building housing the connection between the L and M lines, on the Gates-Myrtle-Wyckoff triangle, correct ?

Good-bye, dark, dirty, hole-in-the-wall Ridgewood Diner, under the el, on the north side of Myrtle, between Gates and Wyckoff, adjacent and wedged into the old station building ....

PKoch,
The day I visited the outside of the former RKO Madison, I did not go on the EL, but I stood adjacent to the main entrance, the view was rather obstructed
but I did notice a faded sign painted on the wall, one of this once proud theater's few remnants. I saw a picture in above postings.
Thanks for your comments friends, about the El and its tower, perhaps this building was an early remnant of when this line terminated at Myrtle and Wyckoff. I did notice a building to Madison's right, over to the corner, it had an ornate facade, it appeared to be 1920's vintage, anybody know its early function?

Panzer65, the faded sign you saw painted on the wall, what did it say ?

You're welcome to the comments about the el and its tower. First, the el was extended from Myrtle and Wyckoff to Fresh Pond Road, then to Metropolitan Avenue, Middle Village (1913 - 1918, Bway, please jump in, and correct me if I'm wrong) causing a building boom in Ridgewood, then the RKO Madison opened, the weekend after Thanksgiving, 1927.

The building to the right (west) of the Madison was probably always stores, and / or restaurants and coffee counters.

PKoch,
Thanks for your reply concerning Madison's sign and the adjoining buildings.
Well when I looked up at the massive size of this building, I noticed three things, a bricked up doorway, stair supports removed, and fading paint,it was so hard to decipher what it said, but I do remember seeing a post with that painted sign still visible.
I beleive the section running from Wyckoff ave to Metropolitan Ave was known as the Lutheran Extension, referring to the cemetery it abutted.

The Lutheran Extension also featured a trolley right of way below, whose remnants still exist today, check out this piece of nostalgia and enjoy!! http://www.forgotten-ny.com/TROLLEYS/ridgewood/ridgwd.html

You're welcome, Panzer65, and thank you. Yes, that segment was known as the Lutheran Line, or extension, after Lutheran Cemetery.

I know all about that trolley beneath the el. My father and I grew up with it. I am from Ridgewood, and it is in my DNA ! My father saw that trolley running. I did not, but have seen the tracks, and the right-of-way, thousands of times.

Hello friends,http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/madisontheater.jpg heres of RKO Madison's few remnants, a faded but vintage sign on the right side wall.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/madisontheater.jpg

Panzer65, your link doesn't look like it's active. Try putting it on a line of its own.

Now that I see the picture, perhaps when I drove down Madison St. to see the back, I looked up to the left or behind the right side,on Myrtle ave., thats where that bricked up door is.

Thanks, Panzer65. Bway's got lots of details from his recent exploration of the building.

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/NEIGHBORHOODS/ridgewood/ridgewood.html

Your welcome PKoch
My report on Madison's interior will be shortly!

I submitted comments to Christina Wilkinson on her Ridgewood article that you just posted a link to, in early August 2005. I don't know if she's responded to them yet. I haven't checked.

PKoch,
As a young man, I was always fascinated by trolleys, so my father, (greatest man in my life), took me to the trolley museum in Connecticut to look and feel the experience of something I missed out on. Just like Madison, I want to walk in and feel what I missed!
As for that stretch of right of way through Ridgewood, again my father showed me those exposed tracks one sunny day, to help me appreciate the past, he did even one better, a friend of his was a contractor who did construction on streets. He had this man cut a section of trolley track and paint it silver, which i use as a book shelf end piece. My father was a great man, i'm sure yours was too!

The sign on the side of the Madison's building said "Madison Theatre". It's a bit hard to read now, as not only is it faded, but as it faded, it mixed with earlier painted versions of "Madison Theatre", and they sort of began to blend together as one.

As for the El. The original Myrtle El terminated at Myrtle and Wyckoff. There was a seperate steam railroad that ran on the surface in the route of the current el to Metropolitan Ave, and yes, it was called the Lutheran steam line. At some point in the early 1900's, they connected this steam railroad to the old Myrtle EL. El trains came down from the el and down to the surface, and ran over the former steam railroad on the ground to Metropolitan Ave. In 1914, the Myrtle El north of Broadway was completely rebuilt to handle heavier subway cars, and they extended the el over the old surface tracks, the el we know today.

Thanks, Bway, for all the details. I think I was able to read MADISON THEATRE from the western wall of the RKO Madison Theater in summer 1976 from the outdoor observation deck of the World Trade Center, using one of the 25 power pay binoculars, available there. Another guy up there was reading telephone numbers off billboards in Flatbush using his Questar telescope.

Please excuse the repetition if I've already posted about this.

PKoch, in addition to the other copies, I'll also have to dig out for you a 1940s shot (8x10) of a trolley under the el between Forest & Fresh Pond Rd.

Bway, am not sure the Myrtle El ever had an express track. None of my books, videos or DVDs allude to one. The tower may have been there for turnaround switching when Wyckoff Avenue was the original end-of-the-line. The Palmetto Avenue section over the trolley line was erected c. 1915. I'll check further with some of my ancient maps.

The tower did obscure the marquee of the Madison. In a great video released by an outfit in MA (http://www.sundayriverproductions.com) - "New York Elevateds in the 1950s" - photographer Frank Pfuhler, Jr. captured some great Ridgewood scenes between '55-'57. The wall of the theater during active days read in bright, unfaded letters:

R.K.O.

MADISON

Theatre

The video is pricey at $39.95, but decent used copies have surfaced on eBay for about ten - twelve bucks. Regardless, a free catalog can be obtained by calling SRP at 1-888-791-5179.

I bought the DVD of Spike Lee's "Malcolm X" just to have the Myrtle-Wyckoff-Palmetto opening scenes (as Boston) preserved. Wish I'd been in Ridgewood to see that scene filmed...

http://www.sundayriverproductions com

(The parentheses may have KO'd the blue highlight to that link.)

www.sundayriverproductions.com

[#$@%*!!!]

BklynJim, thanks in advance for the shot of the trolley under the el between Forest & Fresh Pond Rd.

The Myrtle El DID have an express track between Wyckoff and Myrtle-Bway, hence the two platforms and three trackways at Wyckoff. I think express trains ceased operation in 1946. Bway would have more details. Also "The Old Timer" of The Times Newsweekly, formerly the Ridgewood Times.

The tower did obscure the marquee of the Madison, but not the western wall. I think I've seen that el video with the view of the wall of the Madison at the GCT Transit Museum Store, summer 2002 or 2003. As I've already posted, the background music was "East side, west side, all around the town ...". It was very poignant watching it with my 7 or 8 year old son, wanting to share it with him, yet knowing that that view into my past couldn't possibly mean to him what it means to me.

More power to you for the "Malcolm X" DVD. Wonder why they selected "the depot" as Boston for that film.

I was lucky enough to be right up there on the el watching the taping of Malcolm X there at Myrtle/Wyckoff.

Good for you, Bway !

I saw "Brighton Beach Memoirs" being filmed at Seneca and Palmetto in late November 1986.

We probably rubbed shoulders there, as I also watched many many scenes being taped at Seneca Ave in the 80's. I saw the funeral procession scene filmed, the scene where he eats the pickle, the scene where the mother and sister go to the ice cream parlor, the scene where the sister goes on a date in this guys car (that was pulled by another car, as in real life it apparently didn't run)....the scene where he lies on the sidewalk after going to the pool hall, and also the scene where they are standing on the el mezzanine stairway when the brother goes to enlist in the military.
Fun stuff, it was good for a few evenings entertainment watching all that.

Yeah, Bway, I'll bet. It reads like you saw lots more of the filming than I did. Compared to you, I just barely glanced at it.

Should I look for you in the film ? Did you get on-camera as an "on-the-spot extra" ?

I remember the scene where they are standing on the el mezzanine stairway when the brother goes to enlist in the military. I seem to recall the Planter's Peanut sign, that had been painted on the building, in the background.

I think my favorite line from the play was when the older brother exclaims angrily to the younger :

"How come every time I get into trouble, I have to tell you what a naked girl looks like ?!?!?!"

My, my - all these RKO Madison movie stars...

In answer to why the depot was used as Boston, my guess is Spike Lee's low WB budget. Don't forget that to complete "X," he had to obtain outright gifts from the likes of Oprah, Cosby & others.

Bway & Peter, I checked an old 1928 Ohman transit map which has both the Broadway-Myrtle and Wyckoff Ave. stations circled as express stops, lending some creedence to a limited third track back then. Central & Knickerbocker Aves. were the only stations on the line so designed like that. (A 1935 copy of the Brooklyn Redbook only lists Essex St. in NYC as the single express station on the Myrtle-Broadway-Chambers St. lines. One would think B'way-Myrtle should've gotten an equal boldface entry there, too, even if the express track had been torn up by then.)

My other transit material is in NY, so I'll be searching out more next month. To be continued...

Thanks, Bklyn Jim, for your answer about "X", and about the Myrtle El express track. You might also want to check out the 1924 BMT subway and el map on nycsubway.org, if you haven't, already.

Jim, even if the if the express track was ripped up, Myrtle-Bway should have been listed as an express stop, as of course it was an express on the Broadway El with the Jamaica line. Marcy Ave, which currently is an express stop, was originally a local stop. It was supposed to be rebuilt into a formal express stop at Williamsburg Bridge Plaza ( and look like Myrtle-Bway, etc), however, it was never done.

Quote PKoch:
"Should I look for you in the film ? Did you get on-camera as an "on-the-spot extra" ?"

Actually, my shadow is in Malcolm X, standing above in the Mezzanine at Wyckoff Ave in that opening scene, a bunch of us were standing up there.... We were told to move when the director saw us standing up there. Apparently, we in our 1990's clothes may have been caught in their 1930's scene..... They didn't reshoot it though, and instead, we are sort of blurred to a shadow up above....

This was originally the B.S. Moss Madison. I think that should be reflected in an "also known as" above the later name. Without B.S. Moss, the Madison would probably never have been built.

Thanks, Bway and Warren.

Prior to its construction, proposals were to name this theater The Beacon, until they decided to name it after the adjoining street, and former U.S. president, James Madison.

Thanks, Panzer65. The Ridgewood, RKO Madison, and RKO Bushwick, all border on Madison Street. Oddly, the marquee of the Madison was on Myrtle Avenue at Woodbine, not Madison, St.

In a nutshell, Warren, who was B.S. Moss, and what did he do for the RKO Madison Theatre in Ridgewood ?

B.S. Moss was one of the most important figures in the history of Greater New York theatres. I believe there's a website run by his family where you can learn more about him. Our own Joe Masher works for the company. It's called Bowtie Partners or something similar.

Information about Benjamin S. Moss can be found here. There's also a section of historic photographs of some of the Moss theatres: www.bowtiepartners.com/History.htm

Hi my late grandfather worked at the madison as a cleaner then later an usher It was a great place

Hello friends, as I have posted previously, I have visited the former RKO Madison building. Warren was quite correct,as far as the interior goes, the only remnants left are the staircase to the balcony which is really a drab modernization of a former "grand" staircase,and the outline of the baclcony's edge.The balcony and orchestra have been leveled. I went to the balcony and it was very large,there was pretty saleslady sitting at the top of the stairs,reminding me of an usher by where she was sitting!No remnants at all, no open ceiling tiles to peer into,nothing, very disappointing!So on my way down, I spoke to her again,telling her my "mission".I said "Did you know this used to be a theater?Your sitting in the balcony". Next post please..

..Looking perplexed she replied "Yes it's very big". With that reply I wished her good day and proceed to the orchestra level. I walked to the center under the balcony, and looked 360 degrees. I could see the foyer and then the seats ,then the stage, having been to other classic theaters, I was amazed at Madison's density and square footage. I tried peering into open rooms to the sides for a shot asome old glory..nothing!Standing in the middle of the orchestra, I could only imagine where I was standing how many people took in the opulence this builing once possesed.The cashiers are below the right hand front opera box, i knew this by seeing that 1927 photo that was shown on this page. Next post please....

..Upon checking out, taking in all I could, I noticed a ceiling tile that was removed half way, perhaps because there are several roof leaks, many tiles are stained. Ah some old glory I said..afraid not,its so dark above the ceiling,I could not see anything. I'm sure there's Madison's past hanging above that ceiling. Finally stepping out through the main entrance I paused to think of all the people famous and not, that passed through. It really is sad, how this venue,was built to compete, and lost , through, television, changing cultures, the '77 blackout, and sadly arson. A bleak ending to a historic structure,its shell remains our last reminder to it's glorious past.Hope you enjoyed my report!

I enjoyed your lengthy, detailed report very much, Panzer65. Thanks very much for posting it. I was just thinking of the last time I really noticed the opulence of the RKO Madison Theater : it was in January 1969, when I had gone there with a friend and fellow monster movie fan from the Ridgewood YMCA to see Christopher Lee in "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave". I remember standing on line in the carpeted inner lobby for refreshments and noticing my reflection in the mirror behind the counter. Stairs up the balcony off to the rear, marble railings : beautiful !

I may have mentioned this already, but the last film I saw at the RKO Madison which really moved me, grabbed me by the throat, as it were, was "Taxi Driver" in May 1976.

PKoch your welcome, I have finally visited the Madison!
In regards to the staircase, I wonder why one would want to desecrate
such a structure? It seemed almost as if the stairs were removed and rebuilt.Madison had mirrors? Thats a most unusual feature, especially for the concession stand! As for the movies you viewed there , especially the Dracula feature, the classic theaters were the perfect venue to view horrors, especially with the house lights down, a sort of creepy essence was appearing, thats one quality newer houses can never replicate. It always seems the first and last things you do in life are most remembered , I'm sure "Taxi Driver" holds true to this.
Read my Commodore posting about the movie "Ghost".

Thank you, Panzer65. Yes, the classic theaters were the perfect venues in which to view horror films.

What # theater is the Commodore on this site ? Is that the one on Bway near the Marcy Avenue el station in Williamsburg, Bklyn, that closed recently ?

PKoch,
I do not know the number of the theater Commodore, but ,yes, it is the one at Broadway and Marcy, in Brooklyn ,if you go to the top of the page and perform a search of this now defunct (Ugh!) theater you will find it, and thanks for your interest.

You're welcome, Panzer65.

Hi, this is my first RKO Madison post. My family and I attended the Madison from 1955 until early 70s. Beautiful theatre. We called it "high-class". Remember seeing I WANT TO LIVE at the Madison with Susan Hayward as convicted murderess who gets death penalty. Guess what they had as a promotional feature? A life size replica of the electric chair displayed upstairs between the doors entering the balcony! I'll never forget it. As a kid, it was pretty impressive. That was late 50s...in early 60s, I remember Bette Davis and Joan Crawford made special appearance at Madison for WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE. Can you imagine that? These two movie legends on Myrtle
Ave? My friends and I tried to go but couldn't get in because of the crowds. Another memory: one of my first dates with my future wife was THE ILLUSTRATED MAN at the Madison. Afterwards, we walked across the street to the Madison Diner for burgers. What a big spender I was on a date. Also remember seeing at the Madison: THE PRINCE AND
THE SHOWGIRL (Marilyn Monroe),BONNIE & CLYDE, THE DETECTIVE (Frank Sinatra), ROSEMARY'S BABY, THE ODD COUPLE, ANNE OF A THOUSAND DAYS, CAMELOT, BECKET and of course, all the Hammer films from the 50s thru the 70s. Also remember shopping at Jack Zimmer's Mens Store on Myrtle Ave and going to Coletti's (Kolety's??) Ice Cream Parlor often. Although I'm not one to moan about the past I have to admit that I think it's a little unfortunate that today's audiences don't have the movie palace memories that those of us from the 50s/60s do. As I've mentioned on some other sites, seeing a movie back then was so much more of an experience because of the incredible theatres in which we viewed them. If you didn't like the movie, you could always watch the theatre! And the RKO Madison was a wonderful theatre.

Thank you so much for your first RKO Madison Theater post, Jack Tomai. Welcome to the Madison Theater page ! Yes, that life size electric chair replica must have been impressive to you as a kid.

Wow ! Bette Davis and Joan Crawford together on Myrtle Avenue in Ridgewood ! A movie fan's dream come true !

I remember THE ILLUSTRATED MAN at the Madison in May 1969, and the ads on the radio (WMCA), with that creepy violin music. Big spender, huh ? Didn't go to Gottlieb's, huh ? At least you didn't go to that little triangular hole-in-the-wall Madison Coffee Shop, which is still there on the north side of Myrtle, close to the corner of Woodbine.

I saw BONNIE AND CLYDE at the Madison with my folks, late 1967 or early 1968. From early 1967 I remember WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF ? at the Madison and THE BOBO with Peter Sellers late Sept. 1967. I saw THE DETECTIVE at the Ridgewood in a spring 1972 re-release : "Penis cut off !"

Saw THE ODD COUPLE, THE GREEN BERETS, at the Madison, summer 1968, the latter film, instead of a Doors concert, at Singer Bowl in Flushing Meadow Park, August 2, 1968. Saw ANNE OF A THOUSAND DAYS at the Madison with my folks, spring 1970, ditto THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY ?.

I remember Jack Zimmer's, Kolletty's (at the northeast corner of Myrtle and Palmetto) very well.

I agree, back then, the movie house itself was something to behold, instead of "a concrete bunker at the end of the shopping mall".

This is an open question for all the movie fans here: do you think that attending a movie in a theatre like the RKO Madison or any of the numerous movie palaces we discuss on these pages really makes a difference to the enjoyment of the movie? Or are we just looking back thru rose-colored glasses to a youth or a time that we perceive as better? Or are today's generations enjoying their movies just as much in, as PKoch says, "concrete bunkers in a shopping mall"? Will they look back fondly on the multi-plexes of their youth and sweetly remember seeing THE 40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN or THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT MARY or SAW III with their girlfriends? I ponder this occasionally because I love movies so much that I think where you see them is almost as important as the movies themselves. Would LA BOHEME be the same if you saw it at the Met or a tent in a carnival? Are the Rockettes just as high-stepping outside of Radio City Music Hall or is the RCMH necessary for the complete experience? Seeing the Red Sea part on the VistaVision screen of the Paramount or Gene Kelly dancing with Mitzi Gaynor across the CinemaScope screen of Radio City seemed to be enveloping to me as child. Or is it simply a child's eyes remembering these feelings? Just curious...what do you movie fans think?

I think the theater itself is important, to the extent that it is beautiful to look at, a special place, so that merely GOING THERE is an event, an afternoon, or night out, from humdrum, workaday reality, let alone what one is going there to see or hear. The theater is also important as a boundary around the film or live event, the special place in which it is seen or heard, that helps to separate the film or live event from humdrum, chore-burdened reality.

I can't see today's kids getting nostalgic about current cinema auditoriums per se, only about their boyfriends or girlfriends, and the shopping malls containing the cinemas, as a special place where they hung out with their friends.

As a movie goer who started going to the movie palaces during their decline, I have to say that there is a difference going to them as compared to the modern theaters. The old ones have a certain charm and splendor that sets them apart from any other venues. The distinguished architecture made you feel you were in a building that was exceptional.In other words, its the atmosphere that sets them apart. My mother once told me about Jamaica's( N.Y.) Valencia, she said it had a ceiling full of stars that twinkled through the movie,giving the impression of being under a night sky. Prior to the days of air conditioning this atmospheric effect was most likely comforting on a hot summer night.

Upon visiting the Madison for the first time last week, I asked my mother if she ever attended it, and what was it like? She replied very briefly, "oh that was a beautiful place, its a shame what happened to it".

Panzer, thanks so much for the comments...Those were my posts you were referring to...and you sound just like I did walking around that store. I also saw that missing ceiling tile (and only seeing dark air above, or peaking into rooms on the sides....
Did you see the door upstairs, a door that if opened I thought would look right to the stage from the balcony. Unfortunately , it was closed when I was up there.....

Your experience sounds similar to mine....I also found NOTHING of the past there, aside from the no nondescript stairway, and the curve of the balcony. That's it.

Bway, Thanks you for your reply concerning my recent first visit to the former RKO Madison.
We both had the same walk through, and the same results, but you did inspire me to do it! My apologies for not recognizing you as the person who did the walk through on a previous post. When I did explore the balcony that door you mentioned was open, I peered in and it was simply an exit staircase down to the orchestra level, I would have hoped to see the original walls in the staircase, but it was all sheetrocked. Apparently the fire that occurred in the 70's may have been severe enough to damage Madison so much, that the new owners decided to cover the damage instead of repairing it.

That's a different door. That door with the stairway you mention was also open when I was there....there is another door though, on the other wall......

Panzer65, Bway, I'm glad you guys are finally talking to each other on this Madison Theater page, especially about your recent visits to the Madison.

Panzer65, you might enjoy a visit to RKO Keith's on Hillside Avenue near Myrtle Avenue, in Richmond Hill. It's a flea market and a bingo hall, but it's still very much recognizable as a theater inside. Bway, I know you've been there, and have posted about it extensively. I think it's page # 3972 on this site.

You are quite right on the money about the exceptional quality of those old movie palaces, and what special places they were.

Man, I'm jealous of you guys being able to revisit the old movie theatres even though they aren't what they used to be. We moved out of NY back in 79 so we haven't seen what's become of them since then. Probably for the best. I remember my cousin's graduation from high school took place at the RKO Madison in the 60s. I guess some schools that didn't have the facilities rented or borrowed the Madison Theatre for their school graduations!

Jack Tomai, the RKO Madison was probably at its worst in April 1979, right after it burned. There are plenty of images of the Ridgewood and Madison as they are now available on their pages on this site.

A friend of mine at work graduated Grover Cleveland High School in 1965. His graduation ceremony was held at the RKO Madison Theater. Ditto his younger brother in 1972. Cleveland's grounds were quite extensive. I'll ask my friend why they held their graduations at the RKO Madison.

Bway,thanks for your reply concerning the door in the Madison's balcony, just to re-cap, I did purchase some items during my recent visit, and may buy more, cal you direct me to that door,so I can visit a second time?
Mr. Tomai, when you left in 1979 was during the era of multiplexing,and many theaters were converting to stay alive.sad to say its a different world here in NYC since you left, many of the grand palaces are gone. Check out my RKO Bushwick posts, and its pictures,hope you enjoy them!

The exterior of the Bushwick was preserved, fortunately, but the inside was gutted to convert it into a school.

PKoch
I read the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill page two days ago,very intriguing to say the least. I under stand its "A Diamond in the Rough".Apparently you and I think on similar terms, after reading the
page and your suggestion, I think its time for another "Detailed Report", and just to keep the nostalgia going, I may get a sundae at Jahn's, a most unique and original ice cream parlor.
Have you ever visited the Keith's RH? Have you visited Jahns? If so ,have you tried out that player piano? I was there about two years ago on a date, and witnessed that piano and was fascinated by it.
Thanks PKoch ,appreciate the hospitality!

By all means, Panzer65, if you're visiting RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, please get a sundae next door at Jahn's. I did precisely that a year and a week ago, on Saturday July 8 2006. No, I didn't try out the player piano. I did ask what kept them in business. They said mostly the bingo and flea market crowd from RKO Keith's. I had wondered, because the place is so dark, deserted and quiet inside. I have literally been in brighter, more crowded and livelier funeral homes !

By contrast, Eddie's Sweet Shoppe across from the Cinemart is much more bustling and lively.

You are most likely to my hospitality, Panzer65. My pleasure !

Eddie's sweet shop and Jahn's ice cream parlor are two treasures of the food industry. Never visited Eddie's , I heard their egg creams rival any ice cream or restaurant venue in New York. How ironic that the buildings that support a bygone era of movie palaces,
supports the bygone era of ice cream parlors! In other words, Carvel and Baskin Robbins don't even come close, its all about atmosphere!
Even Nathans of Coney Island sets the example,one of my favorite places,Coney Island, is nothing without a Nathan's hot dog and fries.
Same holds true for ballparks, compare seeing a baseball game at Ebbets Field, to seeing one at Shea Stadium, no contest!

Good points, all, Panzer65. Please continue your good posts !

I graduated from Delehanty High School in Jamaica back in 64. The school often sponsored special skating nights at the Hillside Roller Rink and we always went to Jahn's Ice Cream parlor afterwards. A bunch of us would order THE KITCHEN SINK. It was a tremendous ice cream confection that about 10 teenagers could share. I remember Jahn's as being very bright and cheerful and ALWAYS busy. It was quite a place. Whenever we saw a movie at the RKO Keith's, we would always hit Jahn's before home.
If I'm not mistaken there used to be a terrific Italian restaurant between the Keith's and Jahn's. It was called Salerno's. Don't know if it's still there. My wife's brother had his wedding reception there in 1972. What a great block: movie theatre, Italian restaurant and old-fashioned ice-cream parlor!

Nice story Mr. Tomai, Salerno's is still there, and your quite right, it is a great block. At one time across the street, there was a bowling alley and a German restaurant called Triangle Hofbrau, which are unfortunately defunct today.

OK, Panzer65 - now you're jarring the memory bank...I do remember the bowling alley and the German restaurant. Wasn't there also a billiards parlor right near there as well? I can't quite remember but I seem to recall that the streets sort of converged into a triangle at this juncture. Duh - hence the TRIANGLE Hofbrau!
Glad to hear that Salerno's is still in operation. Coincidentally, my brother in law is visiting with us right now from Cal. so I'll have to tell him that the restaurant where he had his wedding reception is still there.

Mr Tomai,
Thanks for your reply concerning the corner of Hillside and Myrtle aves.
It may have been before my time ,but I believe the pool hall was above or in the bowling alley building. When I attended high school ,this corner was where I transferred buses, I would always stop by Jahn's on the last day of school.I have heard of the kitchen sink, but never tried it.
Glad to hear you and your family have memories of Salerno's, a fine Italian restaurant.Unfortunately, The Triangle Hofbrau closed about ten years ago.

I know Salerno's well, having eaten there with a date on two Saturdays in 1990, April 21 and September 8th. On April 21st 1990 my date and I went to Jahn's for dessert after eating at Salerno's. I last ate at the Hofbrau on Friday November 10 1994 with my wife, a friend from work, and his wife. By May 1995 the Hofbrau was gone and had become the Cafe Europa. Now it is medical offices.

The "triangle" is that formed by Myrtle Avenue, Jamaica Avenue, and 117th Street, where the Q-55 bus turns around to return to Ridgewood. Hillside Avenue begins north of Myrtle Avenue at 117th Street. The RKO Keith Richmond Hill sits on Hillside Avenue between Jahn's to the south and Salerno's to the north, just south of the LIRR viaduct and the now closed Richmond Hill LIRR station.

I feel that the opening name of B.S. Moss Madison should appear above RKO Madison. If it wasn't for Mr. Moss, the Madison Theatre would never have existed.

Warren, have you communicated this to the Cinema Treasures management ?

During the long, hot summer of 1950, the Madison claimed to be "operating the only real cooling plant locally." Among its advertised rivals, the Alhambra Theatre apparently had no air conditioning at all:www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/summer1950.jpg

But interestingly, the ad right next to it says that the Ridgewood, Parthenon, Oasis, Gledwood, and Alhambra are all "healthily air cooled". I guess it's what the Madison considered "real" air cooling.

One has to wonder how they perceived air conditioning back in those days as healthy, perhaps it was in the filtration. Another interesting fact is that most of these classic movies houses, especially the RKO Madison, date back to the 20's when a/c did not exist.The building had to be retrofitted to accommodate such equipment and to run it, which must have been costly for Madison, given its square footage.

The Randforce ad says at the top that only the Ridgewood, Parthenon, Oasis and Glenwood were air conditioned...Interestingly, though this was in the middle of summer, there's no mention of movies being shown outdoors at the Glenwood. Did that come later, or is it just a myth?

Perhaps Lost Memory could be of some help about outdoor movies at the Glenwood.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think the Glenwood Theater had outdoor movies. I know that the Grandview Theater did show movies in the parking lot next to the building.

Thanks, Lost Memory.

In July, 1949, an ad for the Madison boasted of the "Only Refrigeration Plant in Ridgewood...We Make Our Own Weather!" To further boost attendance, the theatre held a "Midnight Laff Show" on Saturday nights, with an hour of cartoons and comedies starting at 11PM, followed at midnight by its current two features. Supplementing the cartoons and comedies was a "fun organ solo" played by Jim Knight.

Thanks, Warren. I wonder what the air cooling inside the Ridgewood Theatre was like in July 1949, when the Madison made its boast.

If you have the endurance to wade through the Ridgewood Theatre listing, you will find details of the air conditioning system. If I recall correctly, it used water from an underground well.

What I remember about all this was the horizontal banner signs at the entrances to the Ridgewood and Madison Theatres, reading "HEALTHFULLY AIR CONDITIONED" in large icicled block capital letters, blue and white against a yellow ground. It has been suggested elsewhere that the "healthful" referred to the filtration (of dust, pollen, other allergens ?) but as a small child in the summer heat, all I could think "healthful" meant was relief from the summer heat, and humidity, the risk of heat stroke, etc.

The Ridgewood used water from an underground well, not the water tank on the roof ?

I don't remember seeing radiators in the Madison Theater so it probably used the same ducts for cooling as it did for heating (forced air system). Some homes use a similar system. An air filter is used on a forced air system so a theater could advertise "Healthfully Air Conditioned" because the amount of dust, pollen, etc was being reduced by the filter as the air was recirculated throughout the building.

it had a coal furnace...

The type of fuel used doesn't determine the type of heating syatem used. You can burn coal, oil, wood, gas or whatever and turn that energy into steam, hot water or forced air heat. Do you remember seeing any type of radiators (steam or hot water) inside the Madison?

ps...roll back to sept. 16th 06'.....

for coal details...

Many theatres had radiators, but they were usually hidden from view behind decorative grills.

I can believe that the Madison continued to burn coal into the 1970s. And its very possible that there were raditors hidden behind decorative grills, I just don't remember seeing them. Maybe the Liberty department store still uses the same type of heating/cooling system. It might be time for Bway to make another trip to the Liberty store to check it out. :)

I vaguely remember radiators hidden behind decorative grilles in the Madison, and possibly the Ridgewood as well. I'm just not sure where in the theater I saw them.

Does anyone remember Zelaine, a psychic who used to make personal appearances at the Madison? Circa 1949-50, Zelaine was at the Madison every Thursday, answering questions and offering advice about the present and future. She held court on the mezzanine from 2PM, and around 8:30PM, Zelaine went on stage for about 15 minutes to answer quetions from the audience. Afterwards, she would return to the mezzanine for more personal consultations. Needless to say, this was a free service, and another reason why you always got "More For Your Money at RKO."

Zelaine was before my time, Warren, but thank you for posting about her appearances at the Madison.

Do you remember how helpful her advice was, or how accurate her predictions of the future were ? Did you ever see or speak with her personally at the Madison ?

To clarify the type of air conditioning, it most likely was a water chiller setup, where well water is chilled in a central chamber and then sent to a series of coils and fans called air handlers. The cool air is distributed through the ductwork. Since Madison is ornate, perhaps the air handlers were disguised behind decorative fixtures, which perhaps were also utilized for heating. Since this cooling arrangement recirculates water, as opposed to using city water, wells were an efficient means of saving on water bills. The tanks above the theater are known as gravity tanks, which supply high pressure water for the fire protection sprinklers.

Thanks for the explanation and details, Panzer65.

Your welcome and always my pleasure PKoch.

Thats a good explanation Panzer65. If I'm not mistaken, the Ridgewood Theater also used well water for cooling.

Glad to read it, Panzer65 !!

Thank you Lost Memory and Pkoch for your reply s concerning the air conditioning systems at the RKO Madison and Ridgewood.
On my next journey to the RKO Madison (which will be my second), I may take a look at the air conditioning and heating system, to see if its been upgraded. I will soon be exploring the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, to either play Bingo or shop at the Flea Market, and of course Jahn's.

Hi Panzer65 ... are you a member of the Bushwick Buddies ... because is you're not ... we'd love to have you ... everybody there loved Jahn's and would love to see and hear about what's happening at our most favorite "hang out" along with what's happening at the various movie theaters and other happenings in Bushwick, Ridgewood, and surrounding areas. Just contact me at bushwickbuddy@hotmail.com and with your e-mail address and full name, etc. and I'll be sure and get an invitation out to you.
Eleanor

Panzer65, I think you will enjoy RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, because, unlike the RKO Madison, it still so obviously looks like a movie theater inside. So much so, that it looked and felt so odd to me, when I was there Saturday July 8 2006 last year, to walk around the orchestra, where once were movie seats, and see bare floor, aisles, and tables of goods instead, and to be able to walk around where once I wouldn't have been able to, because of all the seats.

Also, Panzer65, please say "hi" to both Jahn's and RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, for me. Thanks.

Hi, bushwickbuddy. Good to see you here again. Sorry I haven't been on Bushwick Buddies for awhile. I will be back there sooner or later.

Zelaine's real name was Elaine Zuckerman. That's all that I know about her, except that she was middle-aged by that time and is probably now in the Afterworld herself.

Thanks, Warren. You're probably right about Elaine Zuckerman.

Hey Peter ... I know you haven't been there lately ... and we've missed you ... you wouldn't believe everything that's been going on ... Chris has been amazing ... hope to see you back soon.

I'm sorry you've missed me, but feel complimented by it just the same. You might be surprised at what I can believe, given what I've already seen of Chris' contributions. I'll try and get back soon.

Here's something : on the Colonial Theater page ( # 7929 ) I found out from "Peter L" that Schmearman's Jewish deli bakery was right across Bway from this theatre, on the northeast side of Bway, between Cooper and Moffat Sts.

I'm hoping that "BrooklynJim", a relative newcomer to this site, will join Bushwick Buddies, if he hasn't already.

I don't remember anyone lately from cinematreasures joining but the invitation is open to everyone who is interested in the history of Bushwick, Ridgewood and surrounding areas. Thousands of pictures thanks to our roving photographer and our many wonderful buddies ... and so many childhood memories ... and lots of different discussions going all the time. So anyone interested ... just send me your e-mail and full name to bushwickbuddy@hotmail.com and I'll send you an invitation to join us.

Thanks, Eleanor. I'll mention it to BrooklynJim the next time I speak with him, probably next Monday, August 20th.

I'm honored to be invited to Bushwick Buddies, Thank you Ms. Eleanor.

Bushwick Buddies is a great site, Panzer65. Hope to see you there soon. Bway (Chris) is there already, and has contributed many amazing and worthwhile images.

PKoch,
Have you been to the RKO Richmond Hill as an operating theatre?
Any memories to share or architectural features I can look for when I visit for the first time?
Do you know when its last movie was shown?

No, Panzer65, I've never been to the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill as an operating theater. I was last there Saturday, July 8th, 2006. I posted my "trip report" on the page for RKO Keith's Richmond Hill on this site. I think it showed its last film around 1970. Bway may have more details.

I've been trying to find a closing date for the Madison, but so far without a definite answer. The trail goes cold after the weekend of September 23, 1977, when the Madison was listed in newspaper movie clocks as showing "Suspiria." And from 1973 onwards, the Madison frustratingly disappears from listings and advertising, then turns up again, then disappears again, etcetra. And the mentions become only Madison, which suggests that some other management took over from RKO. That change might not have been evident to patrons, since the exterior signage could have remained the same.

Warren, so far as I remember, the exterior signage of the Madison remained the same, despite the change in management. Thanks for continuing to try to find the Madison's closing date. It's something I've wondered about myself, and an item of some frustration, because in the fall of 1977 I walked by the Madison nearly every day en route from home (Ridgewood) to school (Cooper Union in lower Manhattan)(via the L line from Myrtle Avenue to 3rd and 14th)but didn't take note when it stopped showing movies. Or, if I did, it's a detail I've forgotten.

Perhaps we'll have to settle for the weekend of September 23 1977 to Halloween 1977 as a range of the closing date of the Madison.

That spotty newspaper coverage of the Madison from 1973 onward was probably indicative of its rapidly declining status as a movie house in its last few years of operation. A far fall indeed from its "glory days".

I saw "Suspiria" and "The Fury" at the Ridgewood in late May 1978. The exact date escapes me. I would have to figure it out. All I can recall offhand is coming out of the theatre at about 8 p.m. and being surprised how bright it still was outside.

It was a Saturday evening, May 20 +, 1978, the last or next-to-last Saturday of that month.

Did the Blackout of 1977 have any influence on Madison's closure?
Did Madison sustain any major damage that could have affected revenue? Perhaps this could be the main reason Madison closed so close to the day that PKoch mentions,September or October of '77.

Panzer65, I was just wondering that myself. The July 13 1977 blackout, and the crime, arson, and looting in Bushwick that resulted from it, must have had some impact on the RKO Madison as well as the rest of Ridgewood.

I don't think the Madison sustained any major damage in the blackout that could have affected revenue. It didn't burn during the blackout, rather, I recall it having burned in late 1978 or early 1979, by early April 1979, in any case, perhaps deliberately, for insurance money.

By the last Saturday of February 1978 the Madison was a designated neighborhood eyesore, with a sign out front that read :

THIS IS HOW YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STARTS TO DECAY !!!!
IF THIS BOTHERS YOU, CALL (phone # of local action group)

Warren mentioned the date of 23 September 1977. Halloween 1977 was mentioned by someone else earlier on this page.

The devastation that resulted in Bushwick from the July 1977 blackout greatly accelerated the Hispanic influx to Ridgewood. I'm not exactly sure how this affected the Madison. Four years before the blackout, in summer 1973, I remember seeing "French Connection II" at the Madison with my parents, and when a Hispanic character in the film, Sweet William, I believe it was, towards the end of the film, shouted out something about "peace, love, justice, and all that white Anglo-Saxon bullshit !", there was a tremendous ground-swell cheer from the heavily Hispanic audience.

So, perhaps more so, post-blackout summer 1977. I can't be sure. The last movie I saw at the Madison was "Lipstick" in June or July of 1976. There was a pretty young Hispanic gal sitting across the left aisle from me, to my right. In the scene in that film when we see Chris Sarandon in the nude, in weird colored lights, crank-calling Margaux Hemingway with those equally weird electronic sounds, we looked at each other as if to say, "What the #$%^@ is this weird shit ?" After Margaux Hemingway blew him with a rifle away near the end, I think I said to her, "He's not gonna make any weird phone calls any more !" She smiled.

PKoch, Thank you for your reply concerning the 1977 Blackout and Madison's closure.Your reply was well said, the '77 Blackout was a tragedy for so many New Yorkers, it did occur at NYC's darkest hour, when it was in the middle of bankruptcy.As I have mentioned on this page previously,my perceptions of Madison's demise was television, changing cultures,and economic hardship. You have been precise with your description of Madison's demise PKoch, so other than any other postings on this subject, my conclusion is that it closed under all of these circumstances.Perhaps the money loss was so great ,the last owner could not perceive multi- plexing as a way to generate needed revenue.

Panzer65, you're welcome, and thank YOU for your compliment. "Up From The Flames", an exhibit at the Brooklyn Historical Society, on Pierpont St., about Bushwick and the July 1977 blackout, and its recovery therefrom, began on August 7th, and might still be there. Some images from it are posted on the Bushwick Buddies website :

http://www.bushwickbuddies.com

Yes, NYC's darkest hour. In fall 1975 the Ford Administration had refused NYC financial aid, so it was about to go into default on its municipal bonds.

I think you are correct about the Madison's demise. Yet the question still remains : why did the Ridgewood survive, when the Madison did not ?

Television helped to bring about the end of many smaller neighborhood theaters like the Parthenon, Majestic, Wyckoff (at Bleecker St.) and Glenwood. It must have resulted in some loss of income for the larger theaters like the Madison and the Ridgewood, which nonetheless stayed in business, perhaps mostly because they WERE that much larger.

Perhaps the Madison's money loss was so great, the last owner was afraid to invest in multi-plexing as a way of remaining in business, because of the fear of the great uncertainty involved.

Hey PKoch! Your memory is playing slight tricks on you regarding that trip to the Madison in 1973. The film you're thinking of is not "French Connection II" (which came out in '75 and takes place entirely in Marseilles, France), but "Badge 373," which starred Robert Duvall and featured the real-life "French Connection" cop (Eddie Egan) portraying a fictional cop. In fact, Egan co-wrote the story with NY newspaper columnist and novelist Pete Hamill.

Anyway, although it's buried under a multitude of posts since then, on September 18th last year, I reported the same thing as Warren regarding the movie-listing trail for the Madison going cold after 9/23/77. I even posted this image from the NY Times movie clock of that date.

Interestingly, the movie clock in the NY Daily News for 1/25/78 lists a mysterious theater in Ridgewood under the Queens listings in addition to listing the Oasis and Ridgewood Theaters under Brooklyn. Here's the image of that clipping that I posted back in August of last year. Could the Madison have been briefly re-opened as an independent or perhaps could it have hung on beyond 9/23/77 with only the Daily News listing it in its movie clock? Warren - had you checked microfilm of the Daily News for listings from around this time?

Interesting detective work Mr. Solero, best of luck finding Madison's last day.

Thanks for correcting me, EdSolero. I looked up "French Connection II" on the IMDb, saw the release date of 1975, then knew I couldn't have seen it summer 1973, but I couldn't think of the film's correct name. Yes, it WAS "Badge 373", and its connection to "French Connection" now makes sense to me. Thanks.

That's a very interesting thought about that 1/25/1978 NY Daily News movie clock listing of a Ridgewood, Queens theater. If it WAS the Madison, it was definitely closed, and a designated eyesore, etc. exactly a month later, as I had posted earlier.

In reply to your posting PKoch, as to why did the Madison close and the Ridgewood did not is a very interesting question, it really has endured the test of time, and I hope the next generation of movie goers will enjoy this venue for many years.

You and me both, Panzer65. Thanks.

That is extremely odd clipping Panzer. For one, I don't understand why the Oasis is listed in Brooklyn. Two, how can there be two "Ridgewood" theaters playing two different movies at the same time? The Ridgewood wasn't multiplexed until some years later (and even if it was, they wouldn't have listed the balcony in Brooklyn, and the orchestra level in Queens! So what was playing Smokey and the Bandit, and what was playing Sasquatch....that is the question. Was it the Madison in it's last stand?

"Movie clocks" are notorious for errors, so I wouldn't make any judgments based on a single newspaper clipping. You would need to examine many more newspapers before doing that...Yesterday, I found something quite surprising about the Madison. In July, 1959, RKO Theatres, by then a subsidiary of the Glen Alden Corporation, sold the Madison and four other theatres to a real estate syndicate called Theatre Realty Company Partnership, for an undisclosed sum.
As part of the deal, RKO leased back the theatres for a term of 20 years and would continue to operate them. The other four theatres sold were the 86th Street in Manhattan, the Albee in Brooklyn, the Fordham in the Bronx, and Keith's Flushing in Queens.

Thanks, Bway and Warren, for this information.

Check out these postings I made in 2004 as to the possibility that an indie reopened it shortly.
R143, this indeed was a beautiful place, even at it's end it might have been a little beat up but still a palace. I have so many fond memories of going to this theatre growing up and spending a whole day at double features. I have a question for everyone. A projectionist friend swears that when RKO closed this theatre an independant opened it up again for a short time. I dont recall this, but he says that RKO had removed the screen and the new one was smaller and installed half assed with cheap maskings. He recalls it only staying open another year. Is he right or is he recalling another place?
posted by RobertR on Sep 14, 2004 at 9:10am

Peter K.
I also have a vague memory of walking by the theatre and seeing an unusual placement of large metal coca-cola signs (or was I hallucinating) on each side of the marquee to the left of where the plexiglass panels were that held the letters. Was there an RKO logo there that they were trying cheaply to hide? I have thought about this many times because I know they were not there earlier. I know when I saw "Squirm" and "Tenticles" there it was RKO, because I still have the block ad I cut out of the Daily News.
posted by RobertR on Sep 14, 2004 at 11:56am

RobertR, I don't have any memory of this, but I can't say for sure it didn't happen.

When did you see "Squirm" and "Tentacles" at the Madison ? Summer 1976 ? What is the date on the block ad you cut out of the Daily News for these two films ?

We are getting closer to finding Madison's last day and kudos to all for your efforts. I do find Warren's posting interesting, concerning RKO's sale of five theaters in 1959, a time when the movie industry could see into the future and predict that the one screen houses future was bleak. Sice the lease was 20 years, its logical to assume
that this was reason number four in my opinion of why Madison closed.

Good points, Panzer65. Thanks.

Another factor may have been that the Madison was on the AIP grind run by the 1970's, although it still showed top films like "Taxi Driver" in May 1976. That was the last really good film I saw at the Madison.

"Squirm" release date (USA) : 30 July 1976

"Tentacles" release date (USA) : 15 June 1977

I have a copy of the "Weekend Movie Clock" from The New York Times for December 30, 1977. Two Ridgewood theatres are listed, but not together. The Oasis Theatre is in the Queens listings, and the Ridgewood in the Brooklyn listings. If anyone wants a copy of this movie clock, please contact me privately and I'll send it to you. Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to open it: Warrengwhiz@nyc.rr.com

Hello, all. Amongst my modest collection of Ridgewood memorabilia I have a great photo of the Madison's marquee and Myrtle Ave. from 1947. I've made a high-resolution scan of the photo and uploaded it here for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/RKO_Madison_8-5-47_Seiller.jpg

It's a 558kB JPEG. I wanted to keep the resolution high so one could make out the details, including the signs of businesses on Myrtle Ave. and the boy selling pretzels (I think) in front of the theater!

Outstanding photo New York Dave, its like going back in time and walking up to the box office! The boy sitting under the marquee does appear to be a boy selling something,could be pretzels. The store directly to the left advertises "frocks", a remnant of a bygone era.
Does anyone know when the vertical Madison sign was removed?

PKoch,
Quick question, what is the" AIP grind run" that you mentioned on August 24?

The reason I think it's pretzels is because if you look closely at his basket, there are round objects stacked up on the side, possibly sitting on a stick. This is consistent with my Dad's recollections of selling pretzels on the streets of Ridgewood as a boy in the early '50s.
On the other side of the street, note the signs for Gottlieb's deli and Koletty's. I'm too young to remember these places, but I've heard of them.
The long exposure gives a ghostly appearance to the people walking by, which seems eerily appropriate.

New York Dave, Thanks you for your reply concerning the Madison photo. One other thing I noticed in the photo, just to the right of the RKO sign on the marquee is a vintage traffic light,without the amber light. I remember these lights on Myrtle Ave.They were cast iron and painted black on the pole.There were low ones and high ones, the high ones were ornamental,and had a spoked wheel at the top of them. They were replaced sometime during the early 80's I believe.

Let me join in and say "great photo" NY Dave! Thanks for sharing.

Panzera65... if I may answer for PKoch, "AIP grind run" refers to the film production company American International Pictures, founded by James H. Nicholson and Samuel Z. Arkoff in the mid 1950's. The company specialized in low- to modestly-budgeted genre (some would say "exploitation") films that made the rounds at drive-in theaters and neighborhood grind houses throughout the country in the '50's, '60's and '70's. Roger Corman was the company's most prolific and recognizable filmmaker. Apparently, by the '70's, the Madison frequently booked AIP product (most probably on a double feature policy - as was common with AIP bookings).

PKoch... did the Madison literally operate on a classic round-the-clock grind like the houses in Times Square? Or are we talking mostly about the product moreso that the scheduling?

Do any of you still live in the neighborhood and have a digital camera? It would be interesting to get a current photo, taken from the same perspective, and compare the two scenes--almost exactly 60 years apart!
What was the fate of Gottlieb's deli? Someone on another message board indicated that they moved to Kew Gardens, but the only Gottlieb's I can find listed currently is in Williamsburg. I don't know if there's any relation.
I showed the picture to my father, and he remembers his Pop bringing home chocolate (I think that's what he said) Easter eggs from Koletty's.

NewYorkDave, I have a photo from forgottenny.com perhaps you may have already seen it, taken from a different angle.
Click here: <img src=\"http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/madisontheater.jpg\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket\">

Perhaps this link: 6.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/madisontheater.jpg

one more try: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/madisontheater.jpg

Looks like a department store now.

Mr. Fenczak,
Indeed, it is a department store. I took a tour to view the interior for the first time, see my July 11 posting, along with Bwy, also at an earlier date.

Koletty's and Gottleib's were a favorite place for my mother and I to stop after a hard day of shopping on Myrtle Avenue when we were on our way to catch the Putnam Avenue bus to go home. The hot pastrami and Reuben sandwiches couldn't be beat. And for ice cream treats and chocolates ... Koletty's was the place to go on all special occasions. I took my husband to Gottleib's when we were dating ... he's from Oklahoma ... and he fell in love with Hot Pastrami on Rye and with the Reuben ... but you can't find them the way they made them at Gottleib's ... and we've had them in lots of places ... but he still compares them to the first one he ever ate.

bushwickbuddy,The only deli that exists today that seems to come close to Gottleib's is Katz's on Houston St. in Manhattan, a genuine old time deli.

In the photo posted above on 8/25/07 by "NewYorkDave," the double feature on the marquee is typical of those two-day midweek bookings that both RKO and Loew's used at neighborhood theatres that could not sustain a full week of the same program. Those two-day bookings were either new "B" movies or revivals of proven hits. "The Trap" was a Monogram release, and "Lighthouse" came from PRC. Here's another view of the Madison during that same engagement: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madtrap.jpg

The second quarter 1994 issue of Marquee Magazine, published by Theatre Historical Society of America, says that the Madison closed in 1980 and was converted to stores. No source is given for that date, and I suspect that someone might have just made an "educated guess."

Warren, nice photo! Thanks for sharing, that pretzel boy to the right appears again, as New York Dave has mentioned. This angle shows the Marinette Frocks store to the left, as in Dave's photo.
Question:The frocks store appears to be integrated into Madison's facade, was there any reason to suspect it was associated with the theater?
Another question: What store occupied the frock store's space in Madison's last days? I must assume a quaint establishment of this type would not last into the 70's. Did Madison's foyer/lobby become part of the store?

It was a record store, Panzer65. I remember albums in its window, The SalSoul Orchestra, "Nice N Nasty", the bare-assed chick looking over her shoulder at you, and Redd Foxx, "You Gotta Was Your Ass". Madison's foyer / lobby was never part of the store.

That should have been "You Gotta Wash Your Ass".

I owe this thread some comments. Back tomorrow !

PKoch,
Thank you for your reply concerning the space next door to Madison.
An excellent description, and a great place to have a record store!
On my first visit to Mdaison, I did not notice if Liberty Dept. store now occupies the former record store.Anyone remember Byhoff record store on Myrtle across from the venerable Ridgewood? I bought my second 33 LP there, "Jimi Hendrix, Are you Experienced?"

Period streetscapes frozen for the camera. In addition to Marnettes Frocks, did you notice the store across the street with a neon sign extending from the front advertising "House Dresses". Do you suppose that they would spend the money on neon for such an item today? Also the sign for Household Finance. Once upon a time you could find one of their loan offices almost anywhere in North America.

Panzer, if I am not mistaken, Byhoff Bros Record Store was a few blocks further east of the Ridgewood on Myrtle Ave, between Seneca and Onderdonk Aves...

Thanks Bway,
I knew it was somewhere close by!!

Yes, Byhoff Bros. Record Store was on the south side of Myrtle, between Seneca and Onderdonk, just east of Weirfield. Closer to the Ridgewood Theater was Action Records, also on the south side of Myrtle, one or two doors east of Cornelia Street.

Panzer65, you're welcome. What was the FIRST LP record you ever bought ?

"Never borrow money needlessly, but when you need to borrow .. call HFC ... Household Finance !"

Koletty's did indeed sell chocolate candy. I remember my mom and I getting a chocolate Easter bunny for my first grade teacher at St. Brigid School, Sister Mary Joyce, for Easter 1962. When I gave it to her, she asked if she ate it, would she turn into a bunny rabbit ? I answered, no, I don't think so.

Thanks for your recollection of Gottlieb's, Eleanor. They did indeed re-open in Kew Gardens, a smaller place on Queens Blvd. near Union Turnpike and the courthouse, but it wasn't the same. There, they either became, or had competition from, Pastrami King.

Madison as "grind house" : I was referring to the product rather than the schedulling.

Gottlieb's on Myrtle Avenue in Ridgewood closed in mid to late September 1975. There was a sardonic hand-printed message in the window from the owner / manager, Ira Gottlieb, "thanking" the waiter's union for forcing him to close his restaurant.

PKoch,
Nice recollection of memories.
My first 33LP was "Aerosmith-Toys in the Attic".
Those slogans you mention are slowly becoming a thing of the past, but when they were in their prime, they were a clever way of remembering the product, even early TV and radio station identifications used this technique, the granddaddy of NY radio was the best, 77 WABC on the AM dial which folded in '82.
I'm trying to understand "grindhouse",was that a branding technique
that AIP used to describe the B movies that they distributed at the movie houses they ran at?

A "grind house" was a theater (typically a run-down inner-city house) that booked genre films (action, sex, blaxploitation, kung-fu, horror) on a virtual 'round-the-clock basis and usually on double- and triple-feature bills. It wasn't an AIP brand so much as an industry term for such theaters. While many second-run theaters operated on a grind (as opposed to the two-a-day showings at the big premier first run houses) throughout the '30's, '40's and '50's, the classic exploitation grinders had their heyday in the '60's and '70's - falling prey to the rising popularity of VCR's by the mid 1980's.

Panzer65 : Thanks for the compliment, and for your answer on your first LP.

What got you back in time from Aerosmith to Jimi Hendrix ?

77 WABC was always too hatd-sell, loud, and high-pressure for me. I grew up with WMCA 570 AM and "The Good Guys" : Joe O'Brien, Jack Spector, Scott Muny (whom I later heard on WNEW 102.7 FM).

Here's a jingle now on 1010 WINS, sung in forties-style harmony :

"1 800 588 - 2300 : EMPIRE !"

There was a film, "Grind House", released spring of this year.

EdSolero, thanks for defining "grind house" movie theater for us.

Ed Solero, Thank you for explaining the meaning of "grind house".
Your explanation really completes my curiosity about his theater that I missed out on. Warren's August 24 posting really had me thinking, that RKO sold Madison in '59, and then leased it as a "grind house". These films really set into motion Madison's demise, slowly degrading a once proud theater prior to '59, by showing cheap b movies, thus never having a chance to exist in dignity. So it all came together for me with this posting and thanks to you Mr. Solero and every one else.I will quote myself upon exiting Madison (Liberty Store) for the first time. "A bleak ending to a once proud movie house."

Although this is off-topic, Gottlieb's moved to 138-03 Queens Boulevard in Briarwood (opposite the SAS Building), according to advertising in 1977 issues of the Ridgewood Times. The ads claimed that the deli had been a fixture of Ridgewood for 45 years.

"A bleak ending to a once proud movie house." Well-put, Panzer65.

Still, to me, the Madison went out with a bang by showing "Taxi Driver" and "The Exorcist" in spring and summer of 1976. It still showed good to great films after 1959, like "Psycho", "The Man With The X-Ray Eyes", "Evil Of Frankenstein", "My Fair Lady", "The Ten Commandments", "Die, Monster, Die !", "Bonnie and Clyde", "The Odd Couple", "Airport", "They Shoot Horses, Don't They ?", "The Godfather", "2001", "A Separate Peace", "Harrad Experiment", "Harrad Summer", "Reincarnation Of Peter Proud", "The Hindenburg", etc.

Thanks for the info about Gottlieb's, Warren. Yes, I think it had been a fixture of Ridgewood for 45 years (1930 - 1975).

PKoch,
I went from Aerosmith to Hendrix because I was a new comer to rock and roll and was experimenting with the different genres.

Understood, Panzer65. Thanks.

If anyone is interested, I have a poll page on Cinema Treasures titled, "What features of Classic Movies Houses do You Remember Most?".
It would be my pleasure if you visited,voted and posted.

Reads good, Panzer65. How and where do I find it ?

What features of classic movies houses do you remember most?

I never said that RKO sold the Madison and then "leased it as a 'grind house'." While RKO did sell the Madison in 1959, it leased back the operation and continued to run it in the same way as before.
"Grind house" is an expression started by Variety and simply means a theatre that gives continuous performances. Prior to the advent of movies, continuous performance policies at theatres were rare indeed because performers required rest breaks. Playhouses usually gave five or six evening performances and two matinees per week. Vaudeville houses were usually "two-a-day."

Thanks, Lost Memory and Warren.

Panzer65, I'll respond to your poll soon. It looks very interesting and worthwhile.

The Madison apparently did close in the last part of 1977. In the 12/17/77 issue of the Ridgewood Times, I found this letter submitted by Erwin Single, a longtime resident of the area: "The closing of the RKO Madison brings to mind the festivities which turned the theatre's opening into a full-scale Ridgewood holiday. When it opened on Thanksgiving Day in the Twenties, it was known as the B.S. Moss Madison. The feature film was 'Underworld,' starring George Bancroft. Orchestra seats could be reserved for evening performances at both the Madison and the neighboring Ridgewood Theatre. Vaudeville bills were star-studded, especially at the Madison. Performers like Burns & Allen, Gus Van, Sophie Tucker, Olsen & Johnson, George Jessel, and the name bands were frequent repeaters. Not to forget the slam-bang trio of Clayton, Jackson, and Durante. Jimmy Durante, of course, was a native Ridgewoodite, and thus a special favorite. The Ridgewood Theatre never had as bountiful an operating budget, but invariably came up with entertaining family style shows."...Five months later, on May 18, 1978, in a front-page story headlined "Revitalization Efforts Focus On Myrtle Ave.,"
the same newspaper reported that representatives of Community Board 5 and the Myrtle Avenue Merchants Association had been talking "with the owners of the Madison Theatre property about the feasibility of constructing a multi-level parking structure on that site." Hy Hochberg, president of the Merchants Association, said "This would be a great asset to the community and help alleviate parking problems along Myrtle Avenue."

Thanks, Warren. We still don't know the exact date the Madison closed, but we've narrowed it down to between September 23rd and December 17th, 1977, with Halloween 1977 as a most likely near-median value.

I never knew Jimmy Durante was a native Ridgewoodite, only that he was once a singing waiter at Coney Island : "I'm Jimmy, that well-dressed man ! ..."

Hy Hochberg ... for ten years (1961-1970), my dentist was Dr. Sidney (Sy) Hochberg, on the south side of Myrtle Avenue, between Seneca and Weirfield. Hy and Sy, brothers ?

That's also a relevant point about the parking garage. Parking on busy Myrtle Avenue has of course always been difficult.

Mr. Single had moved to New Jersey by the time he submitted that letter, so if it got published in the 12/17/77 issue, I would guess that he wrote it at least two weeks prior to that...Curiously, the Ridgewood Times didn't publish an actual story about the closing of the Madison, though the weekly seemed to steer away from "negative" news whenever possible. At the time, there were fears that Ridgewood would turn into another disaster area like nearby Bushwick in Brooklyn.

So that nattows the closing of the Madison down to 9/23/77 to 12/03/77, with Halloween almost exactly in the middle.

Yes, Warren, I remember those fears well, because my parents and I had them, living in Ridgewood as we did, 3/4 block from Bushwick. It's understandable that the Ridgewood Times would steer away from "negative" news, such as the closing of the Madison in the fall of 1977, so soon after the July 13 1977 blackout and the consequent devastation of Bushwick. As it is, I remember an article in the Ridgewood Times in fall 1977, "The Agony Of Bushwick", which, in retrospect, I now wish I had saved and kept a copy of. I think it's now only to be found in the archives of either the Ridgewood Branch of the Queensboro Public Library or the central library in Jamaica, unless it was dug out and re-posted for the "Up From Flames" exhibit on Bushwick at the Brooklyn Historical Society that closed this past Sunday.

There was a division into "upper" and "lower" Ridgewood, roughly north and south of Myrtle Avenue, respectively. The fear was that at least "lower" Ridgewood would suffer Bushwick's fate, whereas "upper" Ridgewood wanted to be associated with Glendale and Queens, rather than Bushwick and Brooklyn, in terms of community services.

There was even a program about Bushwick in the fall of 1977 on Channel 13 which I would now be very interested in viewing. I think I only watched part of it. At the time, I was a student at Cooper Union, extremely focused in an "ivory tower" way on my studies there.

The 1977 post-blackout devastation of Bushwick also greatly accelerated the influx of Hispanics into Ridgewood, which first seemed to begin in force in the fall of 1970.

I never knew Madison had so many elite names on its grand stage as a vaudeville venue, also as the introduction mentions, it was a first run RKO house. And as PKoch mentioned on August 28, it did run some first rate films post '59, but many of the elements mentioned in prior postings did do in the Madison,so i'm glad to see we finally found its closing date. When you look at the facts, perhaps Madison should have been multi plexed when its long time competitor, Ridgewood was. Then again, maybe its beautiful interior may have resisted efforts to to just that. Was there any reason Madison was not destroyed for a parking lot?

Probably because it made money when it was re-opened as a store.

The proposal was to make the Madison into a multi-level parking structure, rather than a parking lot. Perhaps Warren can tell us why this was not done.

I still had fun at the Madison even, or maybe especially when, seeing not-so-great films there, like "Reptilicus" (1961), "Three Stooges In Orbit" and "Mothra", "King Kong vs. Godzilla" (1962)"I Saw What You Did"(1965), "Whatever Happened To Aunt Alice ?"(1969), "Tales From The Crypt" (1972) and "The House That Dripped Blood" (1975, released several years earlier), to name a few.

I myself do not see why the Madison could not have been multiplexed, Panzer65, but perhaps you can research for us and post here about why this was never done.

I didn't see "Mark Of The Devil" at the Madison in 1972, but took it for granted that free vomit bags were being given out to patrons within, as advertised.

PKoch
How ironic certain pieces of history mingle, when you were watching the movies you mentioned above, I was watching them on so called "terrestrial television", also known as as the 4:30 movie on WABC Tv channel 7. If I was a few years older I may have ventured to Putnam and Myrtle to view them. I do wish I could have experienced the theater experience at that grand palace, again I missed out, but Cinema Treasures allows me to experience what I missed.

Panzer65, I watched my share of movies on the 4:30 movie on CBS, NBC and ABC ("The Big Show", starting in fall 1963. I think Tuesday was sci fi / monster day, on which I saw movies like "The Amazing Colossal Man").

The Ridgewood was on the north side of Myrtle between Putnam Avenue and Madison Street. The Madison was on the south side of Myrtle Avenue at Woodbine Street.

Yes, Panzer65, Cinema Treasures allows you to experience indirectly what you missed, but it reads like you've had your own abundant fair share of moviegoing experiences as well.

I saw movies on "Chiller Theater" like "The Indestructible Man" that older posters like BrooklynJim saw in movie theaters.

Excuse me .... the Ridgewood IS, IS, IS STILL SHOWING MOVIES on the north side of Myrtle between Putnam Avenue and Madison Street.

I saw those "Agony of Bushwick" articles just the other day, so they are definitely in the microfilm at the Queens Public Library in Jamaica. As I recall, there was one big article and several sequels. At that time in 1977, downtown Jamaica also seemed in peril, due to closings of Loew's Valencia, the Long Island Press, and the Macy's store on 165th Street. Those were probably bigger blows than anything in Ridgewood.

Warren, I'm glad to read that the "Agony of Bushwick" articles are safely on microfilm at the central Queens library. What was your opinion of the articles after reading them ?

I know what you mean about downtown Jamaica seeming also in peril at that time, with the events you mentioned, and also the closing and eventual demolition of the el, starting at 168th Street in September 1977 and working its way west to the Queens Boulevard and Metropolitan Avenue stations, but I don't think there was anything like the devastation of Bushwick anywhere near Jamaica, and the proximity of partly destroyed Bushwick to Ridgewood made many Ridgewood residents fearful, and must have had some negative effect on Ridgewood.

Ridgewood was not devastated like Bushwick during and after the blackout, partly because the National Guard was stationed on Myrtle Avenue, the main commercial area, so that the stores on Myrtle Avenue were not broken into and looted, but in the years that followed, whenever a store or office on Myrtle Avenue went out of business, there was always the fear it would remain vacant, and become a shooting gallery for junkies, or squatted on by the homeless, thereby beginning the process of Ridgewood following nearby Bushwick into devastation and ruin.

To get this back on topic : hence the sign on the front of the derelict former RKO Madison in Feburary 1978 :

THIS IS HOW YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STARTS TO DECAY !

IF THIS BOTHERS YOU, CALL ...

The "Up From Flames" exhibit makes the point that the low point of the 1977 devastation of Bushwick was, to many, a wake-up call, that "the line must be drawn HERE", that the destruction could not be allowed to proceed any further, and conditions HAD to be improved from then on. That did lots of good for Ridgewood as well as Bushwick. But the loss of housing in Bushwick must have caused some overcrowding in Ridgewood, and the accelerated influx of Hispanics into Ridgewood, fear and resentmnet in Ridgewood's less tolerant ethnic whites.

The "Up From Flames" exhibit was a wonderful exhibit at the Brooklyn Historical Society on Pierrepont St in Downtown Brooklyn. I attended it in August, but it just ended last weekend. I believe it's still up and there are sobering photos on their website, which is www.upfromflames.com

Thanks so much, Bway, for your reply, and for posting the link to the exhibit here. Over the next few days, I will be taking a good close look at it, both on its website, and of the photos you took of it, and then posted on Bushwick Buddies.

This is what I remember of the interior of the RKO Madison Theater :

I remember the inner lobby as about six times as long (parallel to Madison Street) as it was wide (parallel to Wyckoff Avenue). The grand staircase up to the balcony was at the far end, close to the Wyckoff Avenue wall. The ceiling was very high, and from its center must have hung the grand chandelier. Either there, or over the forward half of the orchestra seats. There may have been a large mirror on the wall at the head of the grand staircase. The grand staircase may have had an intermediate landing, from which it divided in two (left and right) in completing its ascent to the balcony level, and the mirror may have hung on the wall of this landing. There were also mirrors behind the refreshment counter in the inner lobby. I remember seeing myself in one of them in January 1969 before getting seated to see "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave".

I remember the balcony floor area (outside the seats) as extensive. I don't have memories of walking around the balcony railing (marble balustrade ?) and looking down into the inner lobby, or of walking up that grand staircase. I DO remember, on Tuesday Sept. 6, 1966, while seeing "Die, Monster, Die !" there with my father, getting up from my balcony seat to go to the men's room, and walking over tiled floors past old-fashioned underlit "pointing hand" signs for restrooms and telephones (in booths). The men's room was long and narrow, the length at right angles to Myrtle Avenue, with a window onto Myrtle Avenue at its end, on the western side of the façade.

I remember the balcony seating area as roughly half the size of the orchestra seating area. I remember the ceiling over the rear orchestra seats, directly below the balcony seats, as decorated with ringed half-globes that, to me, looked like the planet Saturn embedded in the ceiling.

I saw similar ceiling decoration in the Corona Plaza Theater on Roosevelt Avenue at 103rd Street when I saw the Matthew Broderick - Jean Reno "Godzilla" there in late May 1998.

Looking forward to the Madison's screen, I remember the "opera boxes" on the sides, and a small blue-white luminous clock on the wall, above and to the left of the screen.

Other than "Die, Monster, Die !" I remember sitting in the balcony for only two other films, "The Odd Couple" and "The Green Berets", both summer 1968, the latter, August 2nd. I remember that date because I saw that movie then, instead of a Doors concert at the Singer Bowl in Flushing Meadow Park. I was probably better off with the movie, as I've read about that Doors concert turning into a near-riot. I probably sat in the balcony then so that the adult I was with (dad, mom) could smoke.

I remember the outer lobby as opulent, mirrored, with a tiled floor, covered with corrugated rubber runners, and of course with lobby cards on the walls, and maybe also with sandwich board signs for upcoming films scattered about the floor. Although the outer lobby seemed spacious, it probably only amounted to maybe one-ninth the total floor area of the theater.

I remember the inner lobby carpet as either dark maroon, with maybe an Oriental design, or dark maroon and green with a fern leaf design. I remember the inner lobby carpet gradually being obscured by shoe-blackened discarded chewing gum, just like a city sidewalk outside a candy store.

Progressing forward in time from the first film I remember seeing there, "Reptilicus", in summer 1961, to the last, "Lipstick" in summer 1976, I remember less and less of the interior décor of the theater, perhaps because of its deterioration, and became increasingly focused on simply going in there, seeing my movie, then leaving.

I hope this all helps you recall more of your own experiences at the RKO Madison. I'd like to read more of your recollections, if you have any.

PKoch
Nice description, it really puts into perspective how Madison's interior was arranged, when I visited Liberty Dept . store, I was trying to see the theater perspective behind that sheetrock and drop ceiling, now its crystal clear. One quick question, You mention the grand staircase,(which exists today, but renovated) split in two, one to the left and the other to the right. It did not appear that way in my visit, it was one wide stairway going straight into the balcony, which is separated from the orchestra by a large wall. I never seen such a large balcony in any theater I have been to.

I may be wrong about the grand staircase dividing in two.

While in Ridgewood recently for a "CT Convention of 3," I decided to take a tour of the interior of the former RKO Madison, now Liberty Department Store. Despite its being a discounted ("slightly irregular") place for folks on the low end of the socio-economic scale, I was surprised at how well the owners utilized the massive space within - and for both floors. The staircases were ancient, too worn to be anything other than the Madison's original. I made sure to use the back exit stairs as well, but I failed to visualize where everything had been in the '60s, from the balcony to the restrooms to the concession stand.

And Bway, my apologies, bud: the Myrtle El DID have an express track from Wyckoff to the B'way-Myrtle split. I found a pic in my files that documented your earlier statement and put it on a floppy for PKoch. The track, complete with a layup dead-end just shy of the Seneca Ave. station, was built between 1915-16. (No info as to when it was removed.) Although the photo was undated, the 1904-built wooden gate cars looked scrubbed and well maintained. Am guessing the pic to have been taken anywhere between 1916 and 1920. The Knickerbocker Ave. station can be seen in the distance.

BTW, without the tower, the whole Wyckoff-Palmetto-Myrtle intersection looks totally different!

Are you sure that you made a tour of the entire interior? I thought that the Liberty store only occupied the portion of the building that included the entrance, lobby and mezzanine promenade. The auditorium area would be behind that, and possibly closed off by a wall. What is the auditorium portion being used for? Has it been stripped of seats? Perhaps the store uses it a warehouse, or the owner of the building leases it to someone else for a warehouse?

Warren, The auditorium floor has been leveled (also the balcony)and is accessible to the public as retail space. The balcony, which the outline of the edge is visible,is used for furniture retail space. The lobby and auditorium are one open space.

Thanks! I will try to visit soon and take my camera. I presume that one can enter and browse around whenever the store is open.

Your welcome, just like Bway before me, I took a tour but did not bring my camera, enjoy!

Warren, The whole store is open to the public.

Warren, the whole store is open to the public. I have described here many times how you CAN see the curve of the balcony in the store.... The curve cuts right through the store. In the inner and outer lobby area, and the auditorium area that was below the balcony, the drop ceiling is about 2 to 3 feet lower than if you walk into the area of the store that was away from the balcony. The curving swoop of the entire balcony can be seen, and then they have a fake drop ceiling in the rest of the theater is a little bit higer than the area that was below the balcony. There is NO mistaking the balcony, and that was there since it was Odd Lot....and through the Busy Bee Flea Market era too before Liberty. The only time that only the lobby areas was open was back around 1980 when it was a COnsumers store. That's the only time there was a wall blocking off the former lobby area from the rest of the theater, and the theater itself was used as the warehouse. But ever since Odd Lot, the entire theater (or at least most of it) was open to the public. The balcony itself has just recently reopened again, about a year ago, but had been opened on and off in the past as retail space over the years (I think they used in the Busy Bee Flea Market era too).
The balcony is the only area that confuses me. I "think" that the furniture store only uses the former balcony mezzanine area, and that a wall was put up to block that off from the actual balcony area, which would be much more sloped, and i "think" the rest of the balcony is behind a door that would be on your left when you are in the furniture area up there....and behind that door is probably what is left of the balcony, if not all of it. On the other side of that door "could" also be in view the ceiling dome of the theater too...but that of course, I have no idea. Either way, only part of the balcony seating area, if any is used for the furniture store. That's the only part that I can't figure out....but when you go, you will see that most if not all of the orchestra level of the Madison is used for the store. I too want to go in there one day with my camera in the near future, but will look forward to anyone else's comments or photos when/if they go to the Liberty Dept store....

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/124-2482_IMG.jpg
This link is a 1927 Photo of Madison's interior from a previous posting on microfilm, showing the view from the stage out on to the orchestra and up to the very large balcony.

Bway, I went back to your old postings about your discoveries in the balcony and then viewed that 1927 photo, and there really has to be some alterations done up there judging by the photo, it seems to be that the balcony was split in two, its just not the same dimension in the picture as far as from the edge to the back wall, and it was drastically leveled, to the point where its flat.

That's one of three images that I posted above on 7/11/05 at 3:33 AM. I went to considerable time and effort going to a library and copying those images, so you might have at least asked my permission before displaying #124-2482_IMG.jpg in your scrapbook. I know it's my image, as you didn't even bother to change the file number that I gave to it.

My apologies Warren, hopr it will help us uncover that mystery in the balcony.

Thanks, guys, for all your input. I won't have any more input myself until I've been there this coming Friday (postponed from last Friday.
and have had yet another chance to walk and look around inside.

It would be good to have a computerized brain, like The Terminator, to be able to superimpose the stored and downloaded layout of the original interior of the RKO Madison over what one sees now, walking around inside the Liberty Dept. Store at 54-30 Myrtle Avenue, to facilitate making a comparison.

Good point, BklynJim : "The staircases were ancient, too worn to be anything other than the Madison's original." I wasn't sure.

Panzer, I also am stumped on the balcony. My assumption, as I speculated here somewhere before, is that when you get to the top of the stairway into the furniture dept, that you are actually in the balcony MEZZZANINE, and not the actual balcony. I am convinced that behind that door on the left up there when you come up, leads into the space that used to be the balcony, the sloped area. I severely doubt they leveled anything up there, I believe that that space is actually the balcony mezzaine. Perhaps when someone else visits the site, they can shed some more light on their idea.

By the way peter, did you ever get over to the Madison again the other day to see the edge of the balcony curve through the store from the orchestra level?

If you look closely at the image that Warren posted, and Panzer reposted, notice that there are three entrances with ballistrade railings into the balcony. From that point, you could either go up to a high balcony seat, or below to the lower balcony. I believe that the door in the furniture area leads to that middle opening with the ballistrade railing around it. If you opened that door, you would probably see the area that was the sloped lower end of the balcony. The furniture department is directly next to that area, and that was the old balcony mezzanine area. Above the current furniture area would be the upper part of the old balcony.

Looking further at that photo, notice the curver of the balcony. That curve is readily noticable currently in the Liberty department store. Currently, right at the area where that plaster edge of the balcony ends, and the small railing is, is where the fake drop ceiling cuts through the theater over the old hig ceiling area. Then, they also added another, but lower drop ceiling where the the lighting is under the balcony, and that extends all the way into what was once the inner and outer lobbies.

Bway,
Judging by the current dimensions in the furniture area , I would say you are quite correct, the area behind that wall and and through that door most likely are the rear half of the balcony. Would that be great if one of us had permission to open that door and go back in time to see that magnificent domed ceiling and the chairs still in place?

Thanks, Bway and Panzer65. No, Bway, I didn't go in last Friday, but intend to do so this coming Friday.

Yes, all I want to do is open that door....even if just for a few minutes....

So tempting to open that door, isn't it ?

there might be ghosts of moviegoers past in that building, heck, there might be some scary bats and boogeyman right around the corner...

"Donde esta el banyo? Esta puerta, si?" - Jaime del Brooklyn

Whoever is the one to open the door and find Madison's long lost treasure I wish them luck..and photo's to share!

This is starting to read like "Son Of Celluloid", Clive Barker's "Books Of Blood" short story about a revival, ex-first run cinema, haunted by a shape-shifting monster !

...and the monster lives in the balcony..behind the furniture section"

Panzer65, I've been waiting 3 1/2 years for someone on Cinema Treasures to ask me that !

The story is in two parts :

TRAILER : An escaped convict fleeing from the law with both a bullet and stomach cancer inside of him crawls into the back of a derelict first-run movie house, and dies in between the back wall and the screen and stage. His body is never found, and remains there. The cancer inside of him, however ....

MAIN FEATURE : The movie house has re-opened as a revival cinema. Patrons are beginning to fall victim to a shape-shifting monster, which takes on such forms as the enticing Marilyn Monroe, her skirt billowing up around her as in "The Seven Year Itch", and John Wayne on a Western street inside the men's room : "What you doin' pissing in my street, boy ?"

It turns out that the stomach cancer became the shape-shifting monster by absorbing all the emotional energy the screen had accumulated, through decades of movie going in which countless patrons pressed their thoughts, hopes and emotions onto the images of the screen, living through them vicariously. Cancer, the dreaming disease, in that it aspires to be more than simple cells, became a conscious entity by absorbing the thoughts, hopes, dreams and aspirations of all those moviegoers. That's also how it was able to mimic those images to entice its victims.

The usher and the ticket-taker figure this out and manage to destroy the monster somehow.

PKoch,
Thanks for the description of "Son of Celluloid", it's very ironic that such a short story has parallels to our quest to find Madison's
past.

You're welcome, Panzer65. It is ironic indeed !

This was originally posted by Bway on the Ridgewood Theatre page, but it's about the RKO Madison, so I re-posted it here :

"Thanks [Brooklyn]Jim.... Wow, if that door was slightly ajar when I was in there, perhaps if I had the "big ones", I'd pretend like I thought that door was a continuation of the furniture area....and open it. They did have a door open at the far end of the furniture are the day I was there that led to another stairway. I assume it's an old emergency stairway from the theater days. I did poke my head in, and it was very old plaster, but not ornate plaster, and had a simple (but very old) railing in it....I think that stairway was probably one of the ones that led from the upper balcony emergency doors. The stairway went both up and down from the landing where the furniture area is.
Furthermore, I believe PKoch is right, while the stairway in the Liberty Dept store that you use to go up to the furniture area probably dates to the theater days, I too now believe that was an exit stairway from the balcony, that led to the OUTER lobby in the theater days, such as the one in the Ridgewood Theater. It's too close to be the Grand Staircase from the Inner Lobby area that used to have the high ceiling. I am beginning to believe that the ornate white marble Grand Staircase was either jackhammered out, or they sheetrocked the area of it in....I don't know where it could have been thiniking of the layout of the store, so I fear it may be the former...."

Bway, I agree with you that the RKO Madison's ornate white marble Grand Staircase must have been jackhammered out, rather than sheetrocked in, because I noticed no closed-in area where it would have been when I was there Saturday August 25th. I saw clear through the retail area back to the doors, which were open, onto the (loading dock ?) and parking lot that opens onto Wyckoff Avenue.

Thanks for posting that here, I have been commenting between the two theaters, I I guess I didn't even know where I posted that message....which is more appropriate here than in the RIdgewood's section.

Yes, I am trying hard to remember, but there's no area where the grand staircase could be sheetrocked in, so I believe it's jackhammered out. The current stairway was probably an exit staircase that left you in the outer lobby (like the Ridgewood). The grand staircase would have been in the inner lobby, but today, that would be right in the middle of the store, and there are no obstructions, it's a clear, large store, all open. My conclusion is that the grand stairway was jackhammered out.
Those doors that open to outside, that are usually open, I believe are the old emergency doors that went out under the Juliet balconies, there is also a storage area there, which according to Warren's photo from the 20's, was an area already there in the theater days.

You're welcome, Bway. "Those doors that open to outside, that are usually open, I believe are the old emergency doors that went out under the Juliet balconies" : yes, the ones on the right, if one is facing the screen, that open onto the parking lot on Wyckoff Avenue.

The screen and back wall ran parallel to Madison Street, the northwest side of the block, between Myrtle and Wyckoff Avenues. Facing the screen, the Juliet balconies and exit doors to Wyckoff Avenue would be on the right. Exit doors to the left would have been to an alley (if there was one) at a right angle to Madison Street, between the RKO Madison and the building northeast of it, closer to the southwest corner of Myrtle Avenue and Madison Street.

Here is my trip report for my 11 a.m. Friday September 7 2007 visit to the Liberty Dept. Store, formerly the RKO Madison Theatre. I posted it on Bushwick Buddies and may as well post it here too :

"To get this back on topic, I went into the Liberty Dept. Store this morning, on my way from Ridgewood Savings Bank to work in lower Manhattan. I saw the curved change in elevation (about 5 to 6 feet, it was like a curved vertical wall between two sections of ceiling of different height) of the drop ceiling, marking the lower edge of the former balcony. It had curtains hanging on it, and a sign pointing to the stairs up to the furniture dept. in the balcony. On this most recent visit of mine, it seemed as if the retail floor area, open to all customers, extended as far towards Madison Street as where the former screen and stage once were.

I also stood in what was once the inner lobby, looking towards the far end, at the Wyckoff Avenue side, for any signs of the former grand stairacse which one went up from the inner lobby to the balcony level. All I saw was what looked like an enclosed staircase, slanting upwards from left to right, behind a wall in which was a large gray metal door to the right. I didn't try to go in. If there's anything left of the grand staircase, it must be behind that wall and door.

It looked like the cashier counter, in the rear right corner of the store, was under what were once the Juliet balconies, or side boxes, on the right side of the main auditorium, if one were facing the screen and stage.

This time, I did not go up the stairs to the balcony level, and so did not see, and therefore was not tempted, to open that door, in the far corner of that balcony furniture sales area, looking for ghosts or remnants of the past.

PKoch
Perhaps you were correct in a earlier posting that the grand staircase split in two, the reason I may be wrong was that the only normal staircase I ascended was the one in the retail area, which was not grand at all, unless alterations were done. If any one visits the balcony from the aforementioned staircase, walk across the promenade
to the far wall, that grand staircase may be now A fire exit.On my visit I did just that but being respectable of private areas, I only peered in. Thanks PKoch, for visiting and sharing your experience.

Panzer65, the grand staircase did indeed divide in two before completing its ascent to the balcony level. An old (1920's)photo I saw of the interior lobby confirmed that. You've probably seen it. Bway posted a link to it on this page.

As I have posted previously, I think the staircase you ascended from the retail area to the balcony (furniture dept.) was once an exit staircase down from the balcony to the outer lobby, NOT the grand staircase at the far end of the inner lobby.

You're welcome, Panzer65, to my visiting and sharing my observations.

Panzer, the stairway that is now there, and used to get to the furniture area of the store, obviously had it's ornamentation stripped off of it many years ago. Even as an exit stairway for the theater, it would have had at least carpeting, and a nicer railing on it when it was the madison.

Thanks PKoch and Bway for your replies,
Looking back at the postings, one really must wonder why, in its conversion to a store, why Madison was stripped of its beautiful interior. It seems almost as if the renovation contractor went out of his way to destroy any remnants of the past. Why remove the marquee, it is a more visible sign, why jackhammer a marble staircase, when it adds a touch of elegance, Why cover an ornate domed ceiling , complete with chandelier, when it adds accent. The Meserole in Brooklyn had the right idea, retaining the original interior, and preserving the theater's features. Today it exists as an Eckert pharmacy.

The Meserole is now a Rite-Aid, which took over the Eckerd chain. Since Rite-Aid has another store nearby on Manhattan Avenue, there have been rumors that it will close the Meserole site when the lease runs out. Perhaps if that happens, the Meserole could be turned into a multiplex, since Greenpoint is burgeoning and could probably support a cinema again.

Panzer, I don't know when the theater was stripped, but originally it opened as a Consumers store, and only the outer lobby area was open to the public, and perhaps maybe the innter lobby, but I don't believe so. The auditorium probably was still open to the domed ceiling at that time, as that area was not open to the public, and was just used as the warehouse of the Consumers store (Consumers was a type of store like Service Merchandise where in an area where you come in, there are tables and catalogs where you look through, then write down on a slip what you want, then give it to a clerk and they bring you your item.
Next was Odd Lot, and I was in that store too, and by that time, the fake drop ceiling was in through the auditorium.

We must remember also that between when the theater closed, and when the first store opened up there, Consumers, the Madison burned. it's safe to say that after the fire (and I don't know how bad the fire was), but either way, the ceiling, and walls were probably at least heavily sooted up, and certainly unsightly, so it was probably much cheaper to just put the fake drop ceiling through, rather than go through the major expense of first having to clean the ceiling and walls of soot (so paint would at least stick) and having to repaint the entire auditorium tall ceiling and walls, for an area that is technically not necessary for a store.

I'm not saying of course it's right or wrong what they did....but I can fully see why they did it. As as sad as it was even back then...all that beauty was no longer necessary for a store, as the Madison wasn't a theater anymore.

As for the Meserole, of course it has to be remembered that the Meserole is much smaller for one, and it was already probably recently painted for when it was a roller rink...and it also wasn't covered in soot or had fire damage like the Madison did in it's conversion. So when the Madison came up to be transformed....it was in much worse shape even from the theater days when the ceiling probably was neglected for decades earlier...

Bway,
Thank you for your reply concerning the destruction of Madison's interior. It is sad indeed that Madison burned after its heyday as a theater, and you are quite correct, I have no idea how serious that fire was,but that is most likely the reason why its interior was not saved. I looked the best I could through that open tile at the checkout, maybe the ceiling was so charred, you cant see it through such a small opening. I wonder if the balcony ceiling sustained any damage?

It may somewhat off topic, but I found an interior photo of the Meserole theater interior as it looks today as an Eckerd (now Rite Aid) pharmacy.Courtesy of Chris & forgottenny.com
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/meseroletheatre1.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/gpttheater2.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/Meserole4chrissattler.jpg

They're not off-topic, but should also be linked at the Meserole listing if they're not already.

Those are my photos, but I never included them in the Meserole section, however, did email to some people when they asked in the past.

posted by Panzer65 on Sep 8, 2007 at 2:16 pm :

"Looking back at the postings, one really must wonder why, in its conversion to a store, why Madison was stripped of its beautiful interior."

Besides the fire and smoke damage mentioned by Bway : economics, profit, to make it look more like a store, to remove attractive furnishings that are fragile, and are subject to theft, corrosion, graffiti and vandalism.

"It seems almost as if the renovation contractor went out of his way to destroy any [and all] remnants of the past."

Not necessarily, or intentionally.

"Why remove the marquee, it is a more visible sign,"

Something big, dangerous and heavy, hanging over the sidewalk, prone to vandalism and graffiti, that would be expensive to maintain and repair. Remember the collapse of the Ridgewood Theater marquee in the blizzard of February 9, 1969. The vertical marquee was removed while the Madison was still a theatre. Removing the horizontal marquee made it possible to put the Consumers, Odd Lot, and, finally, the Liberty Dept. Store sign on the facade.

"why jackhammer a marble staircase, when it adds a touch of elegance"

Perhaps there was no need for a staircase any longer, in that part of the store. Such an ornate marble staircase would have been too prone, and too much of a temptation to, vandalism, graffiti and defacement.

"Why cover an ornate domed ceiling , complete with chandelier, when it adds accent."

The chandelier was something big, dangerous, heavy, and unnecessary, hanging from a high ceiling, a potential electrical fire and safety hazard. Also Bway's comments about the smoke and fire damage to the interior decor.

Putting up a drop ceiling reduces the interior volume of the store that must be air-conditioned or at least ventilated. Economics again. Put yourself in the owner / manager's shoes and checkbook, and much more of this may occur to you.

Also, not only the vertical marquee, but probably much of the Madison's original baroque interior decor, was probably removed, or at least covered up, when the RKO Madison was still functioning as a movie theatre, for many of the same reasons.

More economics. The Department of Buildings charges an annual fee for a building with a marquee and/or illuminated signs. Using the Ridgewood Theater as an example, the marquee fee is $60.00 and the illuminated sign fee is $165.00. I assume that the fee is used to help cover the cost of the inspection that has to be done on the marquee and signs for safety reasons. Its also possible that insurance companies would charge higher premiums if you have a marquee. There is always a chance that the marquee could fall during a storm and injure someone or damage other property. Since this is no longer a movie theater, why have the additional expense and risk of a marquee? Its cheaper to put up a sign like the Liberty department store did.

Thanks, Lost Memory. You seem to have remarkable access to NYC Department of Buildings resources. Please keep up all your fine work !

Yes, I agree with all the comments. You have to look at it from the owner of the building's perspective. As sad as it is, it was no longer a theater anymore. To have to air condition and heat all that open space, especially the size of the Madison (remember, you could probably fit the Meserole into the Madison at least one or two times!)....it makes perfect sense to lower the ceiling to a reasonable height for the store conversion. And again, even forgetting the fire or soot damage to the ceiling and original walls, if not maintained, the ceiling and walls way up there would be an eyesore. Just remember, that ceiling and walls won't look the same today as everyone remembers them....the plaster/paint will have deteriorated, even under normal circumstances (and the roof never leaked, as the building has always been used, so I would assume there is little water damage, however, plaster does have to be maintained, even under normal circumstances. And thinking of the intricacies of the old ornate Madison plaster, it would have been a huge expense to keep from looking like an eyesore....so for heating/airconditioning/maintenance/cost standpoints the covering/removing of the old walls, or the instalation of a normal height ceiling for a store (after all, it is a store) makes sense.....as unfortunate and sad as it is.....

Agreed, Bway. Well-put.

Also to comment on Panzer's mention of the missing ceiling tile by the check out...I also noticed a few missing tiles when I was in there, some close to the balcony edge....I couldn't see too much, other than a lot of wires, and lots of Air conditioning and heating vents (also remember, that above the ceiling are all these utilities). Think also of the lighting. They lighting FOR A STORE is wired and placed throughout that fake drop ceiling. All that open space would be very dificult to light (also thinking back to 70's technology when the theater was converted). Lighting would have had to be wired and hung from way up high (also think of unsightly wiring, that must be not exposed as to fire hazard standards). The Madison's lighting was great as placed as necessary for a dim theater....but certainly not the bright light needed for a store.

Good points all, Bway. Thank you.

An interesting building to compare the former Madison to would be the Rite Aid / Eckerd - former Manufacturer's Hanover Trust Bank at the southwest corner of Cypress and Myrtle : inside it's a well-lit store, but still looks like a bank, because of the preservation of the original high ceiling, and the fact that you can still look out those original high windows. It felt very strange to me, being in there, April through June of 1997, going on 10 1/2 years ago, because 1) I had last been in it, fall 1967, when it was still a bank and 2) at floor and eye level, it was a retail store, but, looking up and out through those high windows at lifelong-familiar scenery, including my old home block of Cornelia Street, it felt as though the extremely familiar space and sights of my old home block had been turned inside-out.

Next stop : The Twilight Zone !

Ning NING ning ning .....

Rite Aid / Eckerd - former Manufacturer's Hanover Trust Bank : Cornelia Street side, across Cornelia St. from Bushwick High Annex : that beautiful gray granite outside wall, now covered in silver-paint "masterpiece" size graffiti, a doorway now cut through it .... UGH !!!! as fond as I am of my old neighborhood, when I see things like that, they make me GLAD I don't live there any more !

Thank you friends for all your replies concerning the conversion of the Madison into a retail store, a lot of these points brought up are quite interesting, especially those taxes imposed on the marquee I would have never thought of.
Brings up an interesting point, the former Acme (the Itch) on Myrtle
ave. in Glendale, now a supermarket, does still utilize its marquee. Does anyone know if they are paying a surcharge for its use? I have visited the former Acme a few months ago, its in excellent shape, and I have some postings there if anyone is interested.

I was in the bank about 5 years ago, and actually admired the way they did preserve so much of the bank when they did the conversion, but at the same time couldn't understand that such a beautiful bank building couldn't be home to another bank...... But it's better than if they had just come in and destroyed the place instead...

I am glad it's not the Ridgewood Bank they did that too. It would have been hard to see the grand hall of the Ridgewood Savings Bank converted into a store. As it is, I remember it had a different layout when i was a kid, the tellers were all in the middle of the hall until the 80's some time.

Was the RKO Madison a top grosser for the theater company, and was it as popular as the Route 4 theater that they owned?

I don't know...but of course the Acme's marquee wasn't quite as big as the old Madison's. There are many theaters that keep the marquee, such as the Keith's Richmond Hill, Plaza in Corona, and many many others...
There could be many reasons the Madison's was distroyed. One may be the charge as mentioned....another could be the shape it was in, who knows, it was original, perhaps it needed structural work. It was lost in the late 70's, perhaps it was fresh on the minds of them that the Ridgewood's caved in....many reasons it could have been removed.

Thanks, Panzer65, you're most welcome. I'll visit the Acme page next. Haven't been there for awhile. My latest business there was late 1997, early 1998, Social Security Office, my dad's business.

The annual marquee fee for the Supermarket/former Acme Theater building is $45.00. According to the DOB "NO ILLUMINATED SIGNS EXIST FOR THIS PROPERTY".

I passed by that building so many time during the 70s, when it was the Victorian House, and as PKoch mentions, the Social Security offices, as I am an alumni of nearby St. Pancras school. So when I saw the conversion I could not loose the opportunity to visit.

Panzer65, what year did you graduate St. Pancras ?

I graduated St. Brigid in Ridgewood in June 1969.

PKoch,
I graduated St. Pancras in June 1979, a full ten years after!!

I would be SO disheartened if Ridgewood Savings Bank ever went out of business, and the Ridgewood Branch became a store, like Rite Aid / Eckerd !!!!

Lost Memory,
Thank you for the information regarding the Acme's marquee.

Thank you, Panzer65, for your answer.

I dont want to go too far off topic, but the Ridgewood Savings bank building is very typical of the banks built during the 20's, a very solid granite, with a grand hall type interior. If it did go under it would have an astronomical cost to demolish a building of this nature. I would think the costs of demolition far outweigh those of keeping the structure intact. An exception to this rule is the disgraceful demolition of Penn.Station in 1963, which was the same type of construction, but on a much larger scale. The contractor agonized to level this beautiful building, which spawned the Landmarks Preservation Commision. The trend seems to preserve the past,hopefully more developers will adhere to this trend.

The demolition of Penn Station was a complete sin, and an outrage. Unfortunately, that was the thinking of the 50's and 60's....out with the old, in with the new. That building has been lamented as a loss by historians, architects, and all sort of groups to this day.
The only good that came out of it is that it made people aware of what can happen without laws to protect historic buildings from being robbed for future generations as Penn Station was. At the very least, to bring this back on topic is that at least the grand gothic exterior of the Madison building survives, even if partially covered.

Well said Bway!

Agreed, except that the facade of the RKO Madison resembles a Greek temple rather than a Gothic cathedral.

Fortunately, Grand Central Station did not suffer the same disgraceful fate as the old Penn Station did. Quite the opposite, in fact.

The comment that sticks in my mind about the new vs. the old Penn Station in Manhattan is :

"We used to come into the city like gods. Now, we crawl in like rats !"

Perhaps the removal and sale of much of the RKO Madison Theatre's original elaborate baroque interior decor generated enough income to help keep it open and in business as a movie theater for as long as it was, as such.

Does anyone know when the original vertical marquee was removed, and when the original horizontal marquee, with the "Keith-Albee vaudeville" curved top, became the plainer, flat-topped horizontal marquee that was there until the theater closed ?

To the best of my knowledge, the Madison never had a "vertical marquee." I think that you mean a vertical sign. A marquee is something that projects forward from above a theatre entrance, offering shelter from inclement weather and usally also displaying information about the current program.

The plainer, flat-topped horizontal marquee that was there until the theater closed was there as early as August 1947, based on older photos of the Madison that I've seen.

On my last visit to the Liberty Dept. Store that was once the RKO Madison Theatre, this past Friday, September 7th, I looked inside the store to where the grand staircase would have been, at the far end of the inner lobby. Beyond a low wall, I saw an enclosed staircase going diagonally up from right to left, and, on the right side of that low wall, a large dark gray metal door, which I did not walk up to, nor attempt to open.

If there's anything left of the grand staircase still inside there, it must be behind that large dark gray metal door, and / or perhaps within that enclosed staircase.

Walking further back inside the store, then looking back out to the entrance on Myrtle Avenue, and looking up to the ceiling, I saw the curved change in elevation of the drop ceiling, marking the edge of the former balcony.

A vertical sign, then, Warren. Do you know when the Madison's original vertical sign was removed, and the Ridgwwood's ?

Sorry, but I don't know when they were removed...The name changed from the original B.S. Moss Madison to Keith-Albee Madison on February 6th, 1928, and then to RKO Madison on September 7th of that same year. The following 1933 ad for a now classic movie (in its first Ridgewood engagement) shows it as RKO Keith's Madison, probably an error. This is the first and only time that I've ever seen that name: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mad33.jpg

Thanks, Warren. Do you know why the name changed from the original B.S. Moss Madison to Keith-Albee Madison on February 6th, 1928, then to RKO Madison on September 7th of that same year ?

B.S. Moss sold many of his theatres to Keith-Albee. The Keith-Albee name was dropped after the formation of RKO (Radio-Keith-Orpheum).

The vertical sign was still on the Madison in 1948, as shown in a brown-tinted photo of the Madison from that year. By 1975 it was gone. I'm not sure if it was removed during my experience of the Madison before then, starting around 1960 or 61.

King Kong ('33) at he Madison. I can only imagine what a thrill that would be to see a four star movie of that caliber at the Madison at its premier. I can picture the line down Myrtle ave.and the house at full capacity.

Thanks, Warren.

I see that a Katherine Hepburn picture was scheduled to play for three days, April 18 - 20, 1933, during her "box office poison" period. Therefore, I blame Miss Hepburn for the closing of this theater.

Thanks, Panzer65. I was wondering what that "now classic movie" was. Most of the links posted here are blocked at my PC, so I couldn't see it for myself. I, too, can picture what you've mentioned, almost as though King Kong himself had appeared at the RKO Madison, and had gone on a rampage through Ridgewood, tearing down the Myrtle Avenue el.

Does any one know which theater Kong was featured in the original '33 version towards the end of the movie? It obviously was in Manhattan,perhaps it was a fictional movie house?

saps, I think that's pretty far-fetched about Hepburn being responsible for the closing of the Madison.

I've always thought Kong was featured in a midtown East Side theater, because, after he breaks out of the theater, he is described on police radio as heading west towards the Empire State Building, which is on West 34th Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues. That would make the el he demolishes either the 2nd or 3rd Avenue el, or the extension thereof on East 34th Street.

PKoch,
Thanks for your reply, incidentally,the scene in the '76 King Kong at his escape by the el was filmed in Queens at the el near Ditmars Blvd. in Astoria. A resident friend of mine told me they used a giant inflatable Kong replica in the final scene at his escape.

saps, it wasn't Katherine Hepburn. It was Mariel Hemingway, and that infamous anal rape scene in "Lipstick" (1976) that did in the RKO Madison !

"No, it wasn't the airplanes .... it was BEAUTY killed the beast !"

Indeed PKoch, As was King Kong a pioneering film, that quote you mention after Kong takes a plunge off the newly opened Empire State building, is a timeless one!

Panzer65, you're welcome. I knew the '76 Kong was filmed near the BMT el in Astoria, I just wasn't sure WHERE on that el. Thanks.

Before that, he's exhibited by Petrox on Roosevelt Island, between Queens and Manhattan. Then he steps on the Charles Grodin characterm the Petrox oil mogul.

I didn't see any of the filming in Queens, but when I was atop the WTC in summer 1976, and looked down, I saw a life-sized Kong face down in the Plaza between the two towers !

Yes, Panzer65, the way Kong bounces off all the setbacks on his way down.

PKoch,
I remember seeing that life sized Kong in the newspaper, and all the hype about its premier, which brings up an interesting point, many Cinema Treasures friends have old posters or billings about past films. Does anyone have the poster for the premier of the '76 version? I noticed that as he stands on top of the late Trade Center,his paws have a foot on each one of the towers, while in the movie he has both feet (paws?) on one tower. More strange, if you check out the poster for the '33 vesion, he's standing behind the Manhattan skyline and appears way too big in proportion as in the movies he is much smaller!

Attended the premier of the '76 King Kong at the Haven in Queens.

Heres the '33 Kong poster.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/SuperStock_440-9234.jpg

Heres the '76 Kong poster.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb60/panzer65/king_kong_1976_front.jpg

Panzer65, thanks for the links. I used to have that 1976 King Kong poster on my living room wall in Ridgewood. My mom got it for me on while out shopping on Myrtle Avenue.

Any comments on seeing the 1976 King Kong at the Haven ?

I vaguely remember the 1933 King Kong poster. The posters are designed to get you to come in and see the film, and always make the monster bigger and more monstrous, the disasters more disastrous, etc. than they appear in the films themselves. They also often show scenes that are not in the films they advertise.

For completeness, how about the 2005 King Kong poster ?

To get this back on topic, by contrast to the lurid, exaggerated posters, the Madison had posted outside, on two glassed-in panels on either side of the entrance and ticket booth, framed stills from the films that were showing. I remember them from "Three Stooges In Orbit" and "Mothra" in 1961, "Tales From The Crypt" in March 1972 (especially the skull-faced Grim Reaper riding a motorcycle !)and even the re-re-release of "The Exorcist" in August 1976. I didn't go in and see that, as I'd had a sleepless night from having seen the film in Manhattan (the Paris ?) April 2 1974, and didn't want a repeat, but that must have been awesome on that huge still-single screen, the guttural voice of the demon, booming out into that huge, decaying shell of what had once been such an elegant and beautiful show house !

PKoch,
I graduated St. Pancras in June 1979, a full ten years after!!
posted by Panzer65 on Sep 10, 2007 at 12:46pm

I graduated from St. Pancras in 1975.

Thank you, RobertR. I always like to know the relative ages of Cinema Treasures posters and members.

Someone above asked about the location of the theater in which King Kong is presented to NYC crowds in the original 1933 version. The theater was never specified in the movie, and as I recall, you never catch a glimpse of any architectural elements. It is my understanding that the theater interior shots were filmed at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. The exterior shot of the "Eighth Wonder of the World" sign was likely of a miniature. In any event, I get the idea that the filmmakers intended the theater to be on Broadway in the Times Square area - even though it is not specified. It would seem to be the most logical assumption - and the theater is clearly not Radio City. Books I've read on the making of the Kong also indicate that it is the Sixth Avenue El that was recreated for the movie.

The 2005 remake actually recreates 1930's era Times Square via CGI and places Kong on the stage of the fictional "Alhambra Theatre" which is depicted as being situated at the location of the real life RKO Palace Theatre on Seventh Avenue just off 47th Street.

Peter, as I said in the past, I think the Madison in it's final years must have been a great place to see a horror film...
Notice that many horror films are actually set in beautiful "has been" sort of places, and "Haunted Mansions" are always some old decaying Victorian Home, or Queen Anne style like in Psycho.....
So yes, "The Exorcist" must have been really something at the Madison...

Ed....The Hippodrome Theater was on Sixth Avenue and that was probably the theater that we were supposed to believe that King Kong was being held in.

One of the first all-Technicolor talkies at the Madison presented Broadway's musical sweetheart in her screen debut. The March 1930 booking coincided with the celebration of the Myrtle Avenue Spring Jubilee: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madisoncolor.jpg

Thanks, Warren.

That's all well and good, Ed Solero, but then how do you explain Kong reported as climbing the Empire State Building after heading west after breaking out of the theatre ? Unless he turned around.

Agreed, Bway, about the Madison in its final years being a great place to see a horror film. It may have almost been a horror itself internally in its last few years.

True, in many horror stories, "the bad place" is usually some once-splendid locale that has fallen into disrepair. Like the movie theater in the Clive Barker horror short story, "Son Of Celluloid".

In reply to the comments about which theater Kong was featured in the '33 version there appears to be some conflict, PKoch mentions that after his escape the police radio mentions "heading west towards Empire State Bldg", that means the theater would be on 3rd ave, if memory serves me there was an el on 2nd ave also, if the theater was on 2nd, he would have to pass two els to get to 5th ave and 34th st.Mr. Solero mentions that in books about the film the producers used a theater in L. A.'s Shrine Auditorium as a backdrop, but their intention was the location to be Manhattan's Times Square, in proximity to the 6th ave. el. It appears perhaps the producers being from California, had the geography incorrect.

It's possible, Panzer65.

PKoch,
In reply to my experience seeing King Kong at the Haven in'76, it was an unforgettable one to say the least, but, I could have seen it at the Madison.

Panzer65, do you regret not having seen the 1976 "King Kong" at the Madison ?

BTW, "premiere" seems contradictory to the Haven's nature as a second-run movie house.

PKoch,
Please pardon any comments that might seem a bit vague, I did see it at the Haven, maybe some,time after. My memory is not as sharp as it was , but because I missed out on such a grand venue as the Madison, I felt compelled to mention it once more, it may have even never played there, but I know that it did have charm for many movie goers who miss it, and I want to Thank Warren for posting that '33 ad for King Kong at the Madison.

Bway & Peter, the RKO Madison was a great theater in ANY year to see those spookers you mentioned. As cheesy as they could sometimes be, "The House on Haunted Hill," "Thirteen Ghosts" and other Vincent Price vehicles were almost perfect when viewed within this setting.

The RKO Madison has 1257 comments posted!

Understood, Panzer65. Thank YOU ! You never saw even one film at the Madison ?

How many comments does the Ridgewood have posted ? Are the comment counts for the Ridgewood and the Madison a record high for Cinema Tressures ?

Agreed, BklynJim. The Madison, especially in its later years, was almost a "spine-tingling" haunted house itself, haunted by far more than "thirteen" ghosts ! Perfect for those William Castle gimmick B formula shockers !

Let alone Hitchcock's "Psycho" !

There seems to be a lot of interest in this place. What types of live shows did it show with the movies?

http://boinko.com

I never saw one film at the Madison, but I saw many at the Ridgewood,Haven, and Arion not to mention the Sunrise drive in.
The posting counter appears at the top left each time a posting is entered, 1257 is a high number, as compared to the Ridgewood I will have to check. My interest in this page contiues because the Madison has a sort of mystique about it, especially after reading every posting.

Live shows at the Madison ? Read this page, Bobby Boinko, starting at the top. Al Jolson, perhaps, Ed Sullivan, Shakespeare, The Dave Clark Five, the mystic, "Zelaine", Bob Johnstone, to name a few ...

I visited the site on Wednesday afternoon, but found the gutted interior so ugly and depressing that I refused to take even one photo of it. However, to prove that I was there, I snapped a couple of exterior views. The first shows the side of the building facing Wyckoff Avenue. The outline of the removed fire escapes is still plainly visible. The second view shows the rear of the building. The door at extreme left was open, so I walked in and found only a small enclosed area with an elevator used to lift merchandise and furniture to the sales floors or storage areas...Although it was a beautiful, cool day, I was surprised and shocked to see that the Ridgewood shopping district is like a ghost town. There were hardly any people on the streets, and the shops seemed empty except for employees. The entrance to the Ridgewood Theatre was gated up, and I could understand why there are no weekday performances before 4PM. Where has everyone gone? Perhaps to the Atlas Park Shopping Mall?
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madison912a.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madison912b.jpg

Is that what you want, Warren ? For Ridgewood to become a ghost town, courtesy of Atlas Park ?

I think that's a (deliberate?) misreading.

Perhaps.

Maybe it has something to do with yesterday being a holiday. The "Rugrats" are home from school and instead of shopping, parents might have to stay home to watch them. Just a thought.

Thanks, Lost Memory. Do you think the Jewish holidays might have had something to do with it as well ?

LOL Thats what I meant. The schools are closed due to the Jewish holidays and someone has to stay home to watch the kids. On a regular day when school is in session those same people might be on Myrtle Avenue doing some shopping.

I don't want Ridgewood or any other place to become a ghost town, but that's what I observed. I don't believe that early Wednesday afternoon (September 12) was a Jewish holiday. On the previous day (Tuesday, September 11), I happened to be in Jamaica, and it was crowded with shoppers. Perhaps the Ridgewood merchants need to do more promotion and advertising.

I have never seen Myrtle Ave look like a "ghost town"...so I can't imagine why it may have looked like that. The occupancy rate of the stores on Myrtle Ave between Wyckoff and Fresh Pond Rd are like 99%, so if it was a "ghost town" often, it would show in many vacant stores. Obviously the businesses do quite well to keep all those stores filled, and when one moves out, there's always another one filling it soon after....so I don't have any worry for Ridgewood's shopping district.

By the way, I noticed the "Store World" on the sign on the wall in one of Warren's photos. I am trying hard to think, but I wonder if that was the name of the flea market style store that occupied the Madison around the time the Busy Bee store took over. It was short lived.

Also, just to add, I am surprised Warren that you found the interior so startling. I think most here described how the place looked, and that absolutely nothing survived of the theater days inside, aside from the shape of the cureved balcony swooping through the store, it couldn't possibly be a surprise to see that nothing remained, as many of us who have been through there described the scene in almost painful detail. The depressingness of it has been described here often, on what a beautiful place it once was, and now it's all gone. All that possibly could remain is maybe a soot covered dome ceiling (from the fire) above the drop ceiling.

We may never really know for sure what remains within the Liberty Dept. Store of the original RKO Madison interior.

When I walk around inside there, I find myself wishing I had "four-dimensional vision", like David Bowie had as "The Man Who Fell To Earth", who, at one point, could see past and present at the same time. Or I feel like the Robin Williams character in "Moscow On The Hudson", who thought he saw his Russian family in the East Village tenement he lived in, because he was so homesick, and missed them so much.

Or like the Terminator, with his computerized brain, able to superimpose all sorts of graphics on what he actually sees. Like looking up at the curve of the balcony edge, and, while looking at the drop ceiling, being able to "see" beyond it with a superimposed schematic of where the balcony seats and their aisles used to be.

Just to beat a dead horse on this NYC geography issue in the '33 "King Kong", let me just add two things. Firstly, it could be that Kong had rampaged through the City after breaking out of the theater in a random or circular manner. Secondly (and probably more to the heart of the matter), Hollywood has never much concerned itself with accurate geographic depictions of NYC. That probably goes for a lot of other cities as well, but since NY is the only city with which I'm intimately familiar I can only be sure of the inconsistencies in its many cinematic portrayals. "Independence Day" put the Empire State Building smack in the middle of Fifth Avenue (like Grand Central Terminal straddles Park Ave), for example. Speaking of Grand Central, "Men in Black" had Will Smith jumping off the auto-ramp that circumvents the Terminal onto a truck - which then turns a quick corner and winds up in front of the Guggenheim Museum (which is actually some 40 plus blocks uptown and a couple of avenues over).

Anyway, the Hippodrome is a very likely location for the theater in Kong, Lost... great suggestion!

Unfortunately, like my experience with the Royal in Bloomfield NJ, you won't get to see what survives of the original ornamentation until they tear it down. At that point, there's no hope to save it!

Good points, Ed Solero and Bob Furmanek. My thanks to the both of you. Yes, why would Kong, a rampaging, enraged monster, proceed in a straight line from the theater he escaped from, to the Empire State Building ?

How ironic that exposing the inner ornamentation condemns it to demolition !

To further (literally) beat a dead horse on a NYC geography issue (and a more local one at that) I'm sure you all know the one about the policeman (could be "Potsy" in the NY Daily News comic strip) who finds a dead horse on Koscisuzko Street. In writing their report, they find that neither can spell that street name, so they say, "Let's drag it over to Myrtle (or DeKalb) Avenue !"

Sorry, that should have been "Kosciuszko".

Q: When is a high number on a theater's counter wholly misleading regarding the actual relevant content therein?

A: When the theater is unfortunate enough to have PKoch posting 3 out of 4 of the posts.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Thanks Ed Solero on the facts about geographical errors in Hollywood movies, your quite correct, they dont have a fact checker for films like they do in books and/or newspapers.
Warren, Did you go to the balcony, to try that mysterious door Bway has mentioned? I may have to bring my camera . open it and find Madison's past through photos.
PKoch, Thanks for your excellent postings!

Can't seem to be able to go too long here without someone making a disparaging remark about someone else. What a shame.

Schlemiel, chow, and Excalibur.

Theres a fact error in the movie "Fast Times at Ridgemont High".One man is talking to the other about women and mentions that to have an ideal date you should play side one of Led Zeppelin 4. The next scene
shows one of the men in a car with his date and playing Led Zeppelin, but the song is not on the aforementioned album.

Yup. I caught that one when I first saw "Fast Times" in theaters way back when. "Kashmir" is on the album "Physical Graffiti." What that has to do with the Madison, I have no idea! Perhaps you caught that film here, Panzera? LOL!

No sir, I did not see "Fast Times" at the Madison,but since we were going slightly off topic about the geographical errors in "King Kong" I thought this would be a good addition.

After viewing the Capitol Theater page and its images, it appears the architecture of the RKO Madison is very similar to that of the Capitol. Marble staircase, elaborate chandeliers, domed ceiling large balcony, ornate interior moldings, and high lobby ceiling.

Madison architect Eugene DeRosa was a disciple of Thomas Lamb, so there were bound to be similarities. But you neglect to mention that the Capitol was nearly twice as large as the Madison, seating almost 6,000 when it first opened. Everything at the Capitol was much more sumptuous, befitting a Broadway showplace that became renowned throughout the world. The Madison was never more than a "nabe."

You are most welcome, Panzer65, to my excellent postings !

Did you REALLY expect the young male characters in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" to know exactly what Led Zeppelin track was on each Led Zeppelin album, given their limited mental capacity ?

Warren has posted an interesting anecdote about how a Led Zeppelin concert movie caused the destruction of the interior of the Drake Theater on Woodhaven Blvd. in Middle Village, Queens.

The Madison was never more than a "nabe", Warren ? Perhaps it's time we dug into and began posting here about the Madison's past history of live performances and appearances.

MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN

The Madison was wedged between two other RKO theatres that usually played the same movies, so most of its patronage came from Ridgewood. People who lived to the east could just as easily go to RKO Keith's Richmond Hill and those to the west to the RKO Bushwick. Originally, the Madison presented vaudeville to counter competition from the Ridgewood Theatre and dropped it in 1932 due to Depression conditions. In 1934, the Madison tried to restore vaudeville by presenting it on Saturdays and Sundays, but that proved unprofitable and lasted only a few months. Later in the 1930s, the 1940s and early 1950s, the Madison, like many of the other RKO nabes, often presented vaudeville on a slow night of the week, but that was about the extent of its history of live performances.

Thanks, Warren. I was thinking also of Al Jolson, perhaps, Ed Sullivan's introduction of the film "Pinky", Shakespeare, The Dave Clark Five, the mystic, "Zelaine", Bob Johnstone, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, to name a few live appearances at the Madison that come quickly to mind.

"People who lived to the east could just as easily go to RKO Keith's Richmond Hill and those to the west to the RKO Bushwick."

Just as easily go to RKO Keith's Richmond Hill ? Still, a rather long trolley ride, or walk, on Myrtle Avenue. Further than Atlas Park is now. And what about all the smaller theaters between the RKO Madison and the RKO Bushwick, and the RKO Keith's Richmond Hill, like the Parthenon, Rivoli, Wyckoff, Mozart, to the west, and Evergreen, Glenwood, Belvedere and Acme to the east ? Were the movies shown by those smaller theaters that different from the movies playing at the RKO Bushwick, Madison and Keith's Richmond Hill ?

Those three RKO theatres were first-run for their areas. The same movies played at the smaller theatres, but later on, which is why they were known as "subsequent-run houses."...All those appearances by Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and other Hollywood stars were for a few minutes each and part of city-wide tours of other theatres as well. Hardly unique to the Madison.

Warren
Please further clarify "subsequent-run houses" to reflect other distinguishing factors. The Acme, Belvedere, and Oasis played movies successively later than the Glenwood. They all showed films from studios other than RKO, I think. In addition, my recollection is that the Acme and, to a lesser extent, the Belvedere showed mostly Grade B movies.

What are the 'technical' names of such factors? -- eg.? Studio affiliation?, Run priority (defined)?, etc

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Great pictures of the Capitol Panzer65. Whereas my parents took me to the Glenwood or Oasis 2 to 3 times a month, and I went to the Acme or Belvedere weekly, I never went to the Madison more than once every year or two. Going to the Madison as a kid, was equivalent to what I would call going into "The City" when I grew older.

The Madsion became something of a 'nabe' to me when I sold at Ripleys, next door. Elegant, yes, but simpler thsn the Capitol.

Warren. thanks for further describing its architecture and identifying that its architect, Eugene DeRosa, was a disciple of Thomas Lamb.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

The RKO Madison as a nabe? Perhaps it wasn't as spacious as others in the RKO chain, but I'd still have to regard it as a much classier "nabe" than many varied and sultry second- and third-run dumps that permeated the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens. Leaving our local areas for a flick in Ridgewood's Madison was definitely a treat - especially in summer: AC instead of a couple of three-bladed rotating fans.

Agreed, BklynJim, and thank you. Perhaps you can recall some details of past live entertainment at the RKO Madison, and post them here for our amusement and edification.

I moved to the area in 1979 so I just missed seeing this place. My loss.

And as a disinterested observer (I don't even have this theater on my notice list because it would clog my mailbox with the various pissing contests that seem to flow here) it seems that while the Madison might have been a swell place to see a movie, they weren't really playing anything you couldn't see anywhere (and everywhere) else. I would guess it attracted those from Ridgwwood and neighboring areas but I doubt anyone travelled TOO far to come here.

"Leaving our local areas for a flick in Ridgewood's Madison was definitely a treat - especially in summer: AC instead of a couple of three-bladed rotating fans."

- Brooklyn Jim

If you liked a comfortable atmosphere with air conditioning and beautiful surroundings, and were a resident of the local neighborhood, it appears the RKO Madison was the place to go.

I think what's lost in this debate is the level of architectural detail and craftsmanship that went into erecting these local houses of the 1920's. Many nabes similar in splendor to the Madison were built throughout the boroughs - and even in the suburbs beyond City limits. That such lavish appointments were afforded a "mere nabe" is astonishing to consider in these days of banal multiplex drones. Of course, as the construction of nabes into the 1930's increased in number - and as live shows (and therefore the need for stage facilities) became obsolete - the theaters became smaller in size and less elaborate in design. Changing architectural tastes also impacted the look of these theaters - as the classic Adamesque and other roccoco styles were phased out in favor of the more streamlined Art Deco and Art Moderne movements.

I think when we are presented with the handsome appointments and intricate decor of a large theatre like the Madison, we find it hard to reconcile its ranking in the distribution circuit as just another nabe - like the relatively plain 600-seat neighborhood itch.

Was this theater one of the top grindhouse theaters in the US? I've read so many things about how this theater showed a lot of box office junk as well as some good stuff.

What is a reference for movie theater distribution circuit ranking
? Hopefully by decade from 1930 to 1960?

Going to the Madison as a kid, was equivalent to what I would call going into "The City" when I grew older.

Definitely not a 'nabe' for a kid from Glendale from 1945 to 1955.

Just a simple country boy.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

In addition to architectural style, construction cost, number of seats and arrangement, number of operating staff, I would think the price of a ticket would be a consideration in deciding whether a movie theater was or wasn't a 'nabe' at any point in its life.

My recollection is that a ticket to the Madison was twice as much as one to the Acme. And that there was a spread in ticket price between the Madison and Glenwood. I'm talking about times when pennies, nickels, and dimes got one into the movies.

Going to the Madison as a kid, was equivalent to what I would call going into "The City" when I grew older.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

A "nabe" would be any cinema that drew most of its patronage from the neighborhood in which it was situated. Then under "nabe" there would be first-run nabe, second-run nabe, third-run nabe, etcetera.

Good points, all : Ed Solero : interior architectural details. I prefer "debate" to "pissing contest"; "professional disagreement" seems a bit too pompous.

'Tonino : ticket price would be a factor.

Warren : "nabe" as in "neighborhood". I get it. Thanks.

Going into "The City" : a friend of mine from Cypress Hills had a similar experience, with relatives visiting from a rural area, who had said they'd gone into "the city" by themselves. At first, my friend thought they meant Manhattan, but all they'd done was head east on Jamaica Avenue to Woodhaven Boulevard.

Justin Fencsak, please read this page to find out what played at the Madison. I and others have posted a LOT of info here about that.

Warren.... What are the classsification(s) of cinemas which fall outside your definition of 'nabes'?

What is "etcetera"?

Wad the Madison a first run nabe or an etcetera run nabe?

What about the Glenwood, Oasis, Belvedere, BAM Cinema, and Acme?

Keiths, Valencia, Radio City, and Sunrise Drivein?

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Warren.... What are the classsification(s) of cinemas which fall outside your definition of 'nabes'?

What is "etcetera"?

Wad the Madison a first run nabe or an etcetera run nabe?

What about the Glenwood, Oasis, Belvedere, BAM Cinema, and Acme?

Keiths, Valencia, Radio City, and Sunrise Drivein?

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Variety often differentiated in their reviews how something would play on the stem (Broadway) and in the nabes (neighborhoods.)

Perhaps we should ask Brooklyn Jim Nabors !

Having only two categories makes sense to me, saps. Do you know why 'stem'?

The rationale for the use of the term 'stem' escapes me.

Botanically speaking, I'd have used 'trunk' or 'root' to refer to the principal theater district of NYC, Broadway.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Having only two categories makes sense to me, saps. Do you know why 'stem'?

The rationale for the use of the term 'stem' escapes me.

Botanically speaking, I'd have used 'trunk' or 'root' to refer to the principal theater district of NYC, Broadway.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Variety usually referred to the Broadway/Times Square district as the "Main Stem." "Main" would sometimes be dropped in a headline to make room for other words. "Main Stem" was also used for other cities that had a centralized entertainment district.

P.S. In Variety lingo, Myrtle Avenue would have been considered the "Main Stem" of Ridgewood.

Here's Variety's dictionary of slanguage. Please note this lisitng:

nabe -- a neighborhood theater; "The film has had a long midnight run at the Vista, a Los Angeles nabe."

(No listing for stem or main stem.)

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage

And only slightly off topic, here's the listing for the Vista:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/32/

Would a smaller theater in Ridgewood like the Grandview Theater be considered a "stem cell"? :)

Lost Memory, do you have adequate funding for your stem cell research on human memory loss ?

Well there must have been at least 10 theaters on Myrtle Ave...in Ridgewood....

Irving-Mozart
Rivoli
Madison
Ridgewood Theater
Evergeen (at corner of Seneca and Myrtle, so it counts)
Ritz
Glenwood
Belvedere
Acme

I am sure I am missing some, and if you stretch that out to side streets and surrounding communities, you have the RKO Keith in Richmond Hill right at Myrtle and Hillside, and theaters like the Loews Broadway a block away from Myrtle and Broadway, and so many more.

But then again, if you think of a stretch like Broadway in Brooklyn, think of ALL the theaters on that corridor! And if you expand that out, you can triple those on Myrtle!

Thanks, Bway. Then what about all those theaters like the Peerless and the Subway on Myrtle Avenue between Bway and Jay St. ?

The missing theater is the Parthenon Theater. It was close enough to Myrtle Ave to be included.

Ah yes!!!! Of course!

Wow, missing theaters due to missing memories due to missing brain cells ... there never was a better time for Lost Memory's stem cell research to regain those Lost Movie Memories !

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage

Confirms that Variety recognizes neither 'stem' nor 'main stem' regarding theater categorization.

And we've come full circle. The distribution circuit ranking of movie theaters is probably their main differentiator.

where are the various levels defined?

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

"The Divine Comedy" of Dante Alighieri ?

"Main Stem" and/or "main stem" were used in Variety, but it's an old American slang expression, meaning the same as "main street."

Thanks, Warren. I remember first reading the term "main stem" in spring 1971, in reference to Manhattan's theater district, in a somewhat older book (perhaps first printed in the 1950's, and perhaps quoting an even older magazine or newspaper article) I had borrowed then from the Ridgewood library.

The latest Webster's Collegiate Dictionaries include slang terms, and (if known) the approximate date the term entered common usage.

Example : "balance of terror" (1960).

Slalom, chow, and ex officio.

Hey guys , love the stem cell humor, now lets spell stem backwards!

LET'S GO METS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PKoch Your the man!!

Oh, I'm not much of a baseball fan at all. I was just going with the flow.

Or, as there is a CT member with this handle, I should probably also say :

Let's go, Metz !

Glad you liked the stem cell humor !

As we all enjoy the time honored American tradition of attending the cinema, there's always room for humor. Case in point, I just received an E mail containing some Three Stooges material, it was an ad for Visa, showing them attempting to produce another odd job.I could not stop laughing, just like when Moe ,Larry and Curly performed on the stage at the RKO Bushwick,some 50 years before my time, timeless comedy.

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk !

Thanks for posting that, Panzer65 !

My corresponding experience would be having seen "Three Stooges In Orbit" at the RKO Madison in summer 1961, on a double bill with "Mothra".

One of my favorite Three Stooges lines :

Moe, to the other two, as they enter a party :

"Mingle ! Or I'll mangle !"

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk !

Whoo hoo hoo !

PKoch,
I'm still laughing, The Three Stooges never made it to the RKO Madison for a live act, but they should have some recognition on the Cinema Treasures website,as they made Vaudeville, Intermission and the modern marvel called the Silver Screen ,television, a funny and unique venue with their endless laughs. I love when Moe smacks the other guys, with that sound effect.
"Why you imbecile"smack! ooohhhh!"

A friend of mine used to think that The Three Stooges were the last word on the human condition, that they had said it all, and so interviewed and photographed them for his high school newspaper, in New Jersey, circa 1961.

Remember "Officer" Joe Bolton, on WPIX Channel 11, cautioning us kiddies not to try their stunts ourselves ?

Very interesting PKoch, to have a friend who interviewed the comedy legends the Three Stooges. By 1961 their comedy was fading, and they saw the light and packed it in, I'm sure your experience seeing them in one of their last movies at Madison was something you will always remember and cherish. If memory serves me correctly, there was a 3rd stooge by that time, Joe, right?
Officer Joe Bolton, could you please elaborate more, PKoch, I was born in '65, so my TV viewing started at about '71, was he a "Captain Kangaroo" type character?

He was a WPIX regular whose on-camera costume was that of an old-fashioned, dark blue, brass-buttoned policeman's tunic, and peaked cap. He hosted The Three Stooges on WPIX Channel 11 NYC in the early 1960's, and, before showing them, would caution the boys and girls watching not to try the Three Stooges' stunts, like eye-boinking, face-slapping and head-knocking, pouring water into electrical outlets, plugging appliances into faucets, because they could get badly hurt if they did.

Thank you PKoch.

In summer 1989 I saw the Three Stooges' short feature "Flying Saucer Daffy" at NYC's Film Forum, on a double bill with the serious sci fi UFO invasion movie, "Earth Vs. The Flying Saucers". The Stooges came first, making it well-nigh impossible for the audience to take the full-length, Fred F. Sears-directed, Ray Harryhausen FX'ed film seriously.

Except me, of course !

D-O-O-O-O-C-T-O-O-O-RRRR M-A-A-A-R-V-I-I-I-I-NNNN !

You're welcome, Panzer65 !

Now thats a true Cinema Classic posting...cheers to PKoch!

Perhaps this would make a good intermission at a modern venue
double feature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7txeOlujTc

"Theres some things money can't buy"

Thanks, Panzer65 ! I enjoyed that "saucer" double feature !

Panzer: If I'm not mistaken the alternate stooge's name was Shemp. I don't recall offhand if he was a replacement for one of the others or he himself was replaced.

I, too, recall the name Shemp as one of the Stooges. What about Joe (Besser) ?

Can't you two guys pat each other on the back on boob tube or at least some chat room?
..............................................
Thank you PKoch.
posted by Panzer65 on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:38pm
posted by PKoch on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:41pmYou're welcome, Panzer65 !
posted by PKoch on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:42pmNow thats a true Cinema Classic posting...cheers to PKoch!
posted by Panzer65 on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:44pmPerhaps this would make a good intermission at a modern venue
double feature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7txeOlujTc
posted by Panzer65 on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:47pm"Theres some things money can't buy"
posted by Panzer65 on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:48pmThanks, Panzer65 ! I enjoyed that "saucer" double feature !
posted by PKoch on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:53pm

Shemp was Moe's brother and was one of the original Stooges back in the days when they comedic sidemen for Ted Healy. Younger brother Curly joined in the early '30's and the Stooges broke out and launched their series of comic two-reelers for Columbia. Shemp, meanwhile, earned a name for himself as a supporting character in numerous comedies (he had some memorable scenes with Abbott and Costello in their "Buck Privates Go Home"). When Curly suffered a stroke in the mid 1940's, Shemp came back to the fold to fill in. When Shemp died in the '50's, comedian Joe Besser (famous as Stinky the Kid on the Abbott and Costello TV show) replaced him. Besser left the Stooges as their careers were fading in the late '50's and two-reel shorts were becoming an extinct form. Curly Joe DeRita stepped in to fill Besser's shoes just in time for the boys to launch their much belated but short lived feature length career with 1959's "Have Rocket Will Travel."

I think that A&C title should be "Buck Privates Come Home" - my error.

I was born in 1965 also, but I definitely remember the Stooges shorts being hosted on Officer Joe Bolton on WPIX when I was a wee lad. I'm not sure if Bolton was still filming new introductions or if they were merely recycling older shows from the '60's, but PIX carried those episodes into the early '70's. I also remember Popeye cartoons introduced by Captain Eugene McCarthy on WNEW-TV.

I also remember that back in the 3-D craze of the early 1980's, I went to see a 3-D film down at the 8th Street Playhouse (I'm almost positive it was Andy Warhol's "Flesh for Frankenstien" which would be completely incongruous) and they played a 3-D Woody Woodpecker cartoon as well as a 3-D Three Stooges short! I can't remember the title... but the Stooges played private detectives and there was a mad scientist and a gorilla (the usual cheap gorilla suit) involved in the action!

I have to correct myself again. Shemp Howard was not in "Buck Privates Come Home"... the A&C film I was thinking about is "In the Navy." OK, nuff said.

Thanks, Ed Solero, for all this information on the Three Stooges. I'm glad you remember Officer Joe Bolton on WPIX. I vaguely remember Eugene McCarthy as either the Grand Marshal or WPIX host of the NYC St. Patrick's Day parade. Not to be confused with the US senator and 1968 Democratic presidential candidate aspirant of the same name.

Ed, I remember the 8th Street Playhouse. Andy Warhol's "Flesh For Frankenstein" in the early 1980's ? I remember Andy Warhol's "Dracula" and "Frankenstein" from fall 1974, their forte being gross-out sound effects of loose internal organs squishing around inside abdominal cavities.

My sharpest memory of the early 1980's 3-d craze was a lobby display in a Times Square movie house for "Friday The 13th Part III in 3-D" to debut on Friday August 13th 1982. That was on Sunday July 4 1982, when three friends of mine and I had gone to see "Star Trek II : The Wrath Of Khan".

I suppose the thrill of that was supposed to be the skewers coming out the other side and the flying severed heads appeared to be coming right at you.

The first "Friday The 13th" film debuted on Friday June 13 1980.

Link to IMDb page for 1959's "Have Rocket Will Travel" :

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052880/usercomments

Perfect predecessor to "Three Stooges In Orbit". I think my favorite bit was when they return to Earth and their rocket accidentally goes through the Holland Tunnel !

Hey Pete... Didn't that also happen in "Abbott and Costello Go to Mars" or am I confusing the two films?

It did, Ed. I read about it earlier today on that very same IMDb page. I was also reminded of the camp cult classic, "Queen Of Outer Space", which takes place on Venus.

Bochino !

Excuse me, Ed, it MAY have, in the A & C film. I'm not sure !

"CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK !!!!!!"

Finger to the eye: poke ohhh!
When The Three Stooges shorts began to appear on local children's shows in the late 1950s, there was a wave of kids poking each other in the eyes. When Moe heard about this, it was The Stooges who came to the rescue. They went on many local television shows, as well as national TV, and showed how the eye-pokes were done in a way that nobody got hurt. To the kids watching, it was like learning a magic trick.
courtesy of imdb .com

BTW, I went to see "Resident Evil: Extinction" over in Rockaway. The premise of that film is so stupid that it could play easily at the Madison, but it boasts some major Hollywood Stars on a medium budget. Too bad most cheapo horror films go straight to DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD as well as on the internet and cable tv rather than the old grindhouse theaters of yore.

Justin : Given your low AND ERRONEOUS opinion of the RKO Madison, Why don't you unsubscribe from this page.

how do i do that

Uncheck, the box following the "notify me" statement at the end of the comment box. There are also instructions in the email notifying you theat 'someone has replied to your message'

Thanks and good luck

From the NYT 5/19/23:

The first of the intact vaudeville programs planned by the RADIO-KEITHS-ORPHEUM Corporation is now at The Madison Theater in Brooklyn The four act unit will play a route of forty weeks to the Pacific Coast and back.

Shalom, ciao, and esxcelsior

Hey Rollo,
That was from the 11/24/27 NYT

Measure twice, cut once.
Aye.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

The date of May 19, 1923 seems odd, in light of the fact that the RKO Madison Theater did not open until the weekend after Thanksgiving, 1927.

Indeed, 1923 seems far fetched, from 1927.

Show em,chow mein, ex seller.

The date of November 24, 1927 makes more sense.

"The Madison Theater in Brooklyn" : The Brooklyn 27 postal zone strikes again !

Do you not believe 11/24/27, ROLLO?
I posted the 5/18/23 date by accident.It referred to a post I made to the Ridgewood.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Final correction:.........From the NYT 7/21/1930:

The first of the intact vaudeville programs planned by the RADIO-KEITHS-ORPHEUM Corporation is now at The Madison Theater in Brooklyn The four act unit will play a route of forty weeks to the Pacific Coast and back.

New York Times Nov 24, 1927:
New Moss Theatre Opens Tonight.
A new picture and vaudeville theater, BS Moss'Madison Theater in Brooklyn, will have its opening tonight. The new house will seat 3,000 persons and is at Myrtle and Wycoff Avenues, Ridgewood.

During the "United Nations Week" that ran from January 14-20, 1943, all movie theatres in the New York area took up audience collections to raise funds for UN War Relief Agencies. Here are the totals raised at some of the Ridgewood theatres, most of it probably in coins, not bills:
RKO Madison, $1,599.14
Ridgewood, $913.63
Parthenon, $152.22
Grandview, $139.75
Wyckoff, $70.04

Thanks, Warren. Did you contribute that week ? If so, how much ?

Re: United Nations Week,that was a lot of dough back in '43, I wonder if we had a collection like that today,how much would be raised on the "war on Terror?"

The amount of money collected from each theater is about the same as each theaters standing was in the neighborhood. The Madison was number one followed by the Ridgewood and then the Parthenon. I'm a little surprised that the Parthenon didn't collect much more money than the Grandview did. Its interesting information.

Assuming we had the same local population demographics today as we did in '43, I wonder how much would be collected for the UN today to resolve its current financial mess.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Assuming we had the same local population demographics today as we did in '43, I wonder how much would be collected for the UN today to resolve its current financial mess.

Shalom, ciao, and excelsior

Those theatre ccllections were always for "humanitarian" purposes only, and not to pay for bombs or weapons or to help groups solve their financial problems. Those benefiting from the donations were the wounded, the starving, the homeless, and the displaced victims of the war. Theatres also helped to raise money for the war itself by selling defense bonds and stamps at the boxoffice, but that was separate and apart from the auditorium collections, which could be desribed as "people helping other people."

"Humanitarian", aye. Seems to me that's still the word of choice in describing the UN today. Too bad the word has become corrupted over the years.

I don't think that the current organization known as the United Nations existed in 1943. The 1943 version comprised the nations that were united (or "Allied") in trying to defeat the "Axis" powers (Germany, Italy, Japan).

Being a lover of old theaters, I'm going to check out the remains of the Madison when I visit New York this summer, and get a few exterior shots. It's sad, but theaters like that belong to a time gone by, and it'll never be economically feasible to revive them.

MrBill,
I lived in Glendale for many years and never attended Madison as an active theater, so after joining Cinema Treasures,and reading all the recollections of past Madison patrons, I decided to go there to see it firsthand as a department store. Unfortunately, the interior has few remnants of Madison's glory days. The balcony's outline edge is still visible, and of course the balcony itself is open, known today as the furniture department. The exterior has some changes,like a sign where the marquee once was, and the faded painted Madison sign on its right. Look forward to hearing about your tour, enjoy!

I'm from Syracuse, but a few of my co-workers are from Brooklyn and they remember the Madison. They say it was a beautiful theater back in the day. They thought it closed right after the blackout (1977?) and the riots.

I turned 'em on to brooklynpix.com and now they're all excited to get back there again as soon as the weather gets a little nicer. I try to get down to the city 2 or 3 times a year, and I spend almost as much time in Brooklyn as I do in Manhattan.

For those with access to microfilm of the Ridgewood Times, the issue of May 18, 1934 has three photographs and a long description of the RKO Madison's air-conditioning system, which used carbon dioxide and was capable of delivering 180 tons of refrigeration every 24 hours.

Thats an incredible amount of cooling Warren,considering air conditioning buildings was relatively a new invention in '34. An average size window air conditioner can deliver one ton of cooling which translates to 12,000 BTU or British Thermal Units. Considering Madison's square footage, thats a staggering 90,000 BTU,s per hour, enough to keep you in a sweater on a hot day.
Any information on its heating system?

The 1934 article says, in part, that "The degree of coolness is watched, protecting patrons from chills and colds. Health authorities have recommended conditioned air such as one breathes at the RKO Madison, summer or winter, as being most helpful to those suffering from hay fever or the like, for all air before going into the auditorium passes through a series of sprays, which wash out all dust, dirt, and other impurities. The spray water playing against coils through which a refrigerant passes at a low temperature cools the air to any desired degree. In winter, the reverse happens. Warm water takes the chill out of the air. Any moisture that may be in the air as it leaves the washer is removed by a dryer. After the washing process, a huge fan with a 75 H.P. motor moves the conditioned air into the auditorium through a series of ducts. As this air passes through the entire theatre, that which is not exhausted into the atmosphere returns through the Plenum Chamber into the Humidifier Room, to be mixed with an additional supply of fresh air. Again it enters the washer, is cleaned and cooled and then discharged again into the auditorium."

Interesting, the same technology you mention is still being used today in most commercial buildings today, often referred to as a chiller/heater, which as you mentioned, used heated or chilled water to circulate throughout the building. The only difference is that the
medium used as a refrigerant is either freon, ammonia, or lithium bromide, which is a sort of brine salt solution.
The plenum you mention is the space between the ceiling and roof, and perhaps contained the anchoring assembly to have the chandelier raised or lowered for maintenance, and also is used in today's buildings for the return air.

How farback does the www.timesnewsweekly.com website go back? The Times Newsweekly is the current name for the Ridgwood times. How else does someone have access to it's microfilm?

The Ridgewood Times is on microfilm in the Long Island Collection at the headquarters of the Queens Public Library in Jamaica. It might also be available at the main Brooklyn Public Library and at the NYPL at Fifth Avenue & 42nd Street, but I can't swear by that. The microfilm at the QPL in Jamaica goes back to at least 1900. I've never looked for dates earlier than that, but they could be there. The QPL in Jamaica also has microfilm of The Chat, another weekly newspaper that covered Ridgewood and surrounding areas.

Here's an ultra-rare view of the grand foyer in the Madison's final decade. By this time, the white marble staircase to the mezzanine had been covered with carpeting. The floor in front of the candy counter appears to be covered with linoleum or vinyl tiles: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madisonfoyer.jpg

WOW. Thanks so much!! All I have to say is that it is utterly unimaginable that within 10 years THAT was destroyed. It's quite depressing to go into the "Liberty Dept Store" knowing that "that" used to be there, and now NOTHING left to show what a glorious interior it once was.
It is possible that the ceiling may exist above the fake drop ceiling put in through the store.

By the way, are we looking with the auditorium to our right, and the street lobby to our left?

Thanks for researching and posting that photo, Warren.

I second your sentiments from 11:24 this morning, Bway. The Madison must have been a stunning theatre; what a shame it no longer exists in all its beauty and detail.

Nice photo Warren, as a Cinema Treasures member who never set foot in Madison as an active theater I am quite impressed by its ornate architecture. Having been in the Liberty storerecently,I really find it saddening that some of its beauty was not retained, they actually hammered that marble staircase away to make more room. And those columns also were destroyed.As Bway mentioned they literally hacked until there was nothing left. The only remnants of the former lobby and orchestra must be above the ceiling, and somewhere in the balcony, where the furniture store exists. So this view in the photo must be looking to the right as you enter the store,where there is a staircase behind double doors.

I just visited the old Madison yesterday, now the Liberty Department Store. It's bigger inside than it looks from the outside, and if I hadn't read the postings here, I would have never guessed it had once been a theater. I asked the cashier who waited on me if she knew it used to be a theater, and she smiled and said "No", and something to the effect of "You must have lived in this neighborhood a long time."

I took a couple of pictures. I'll post 'em in a few days when I get all of them downloaded and edited.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I am looking forward to seeing your photos. As I always say, there's hope for a better tomorrow!

Mr Bill I too look forward to your photos, I have always wanted to do that, but never got around to taking any. Far above, Warren posted some historic photos of the Madison's Auditorium....one showing the Madison's Juliette Balocnies on the side, and one taken from the stage looking to the back. I think the links still work, but haven't looked.

Where is this photo from....were there others?

Warren your photos don't stay up very long. Could you send the interior vintage photos?

Here are new links to previously posted early images of the Madison Theatre:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/maddome.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madboxes.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2474_IMG.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2482_IMG.jpg

Nice pictures Warren
In picture #2 the Liberty store cashiers counter is where those boxes used to be.
But picture #4 still puzzles me, did the marble staircase lead up to that opening at the left of the balcony? Is todays staircase to the furniture dept the opening to the right? Judging by the size of the balcony, it appears their is a wall running through the middle of the balcony, as Bway had mentioned previously,perhaps there are some remnants behind that wall, if it is divided. It appeared that way when I visited last year, not to mention the floor being leveled. The opening in the middle is also a mystery, it must be concealed also, or just filled in. I would love to see what exists above that drop ceiling. Maybe the chandelier is still there.

Here's links to the 2 shots I took Monday.

http://public.fotki.com/lefty78312/the-madison-theater/dsc2306.html
http://public.fotki.com/lefty78312/the-madison-theater/dsc2307.html

Panzer, I believe that the furniture area only uses the mezzanine/lobby area of the old balcony. The balcony itself in some form is behind a door that is in the middle of the furniture area. I wanted to open that door! I severely doubt they leveled out the balcony seating area. The area where the firniture area is is probably the mezzanine level of the balcony, which was probably level to begin with.

Mr Bill, thanks for the photos! Notice that the area in front of the Madison Theater (Liberty Dept Store) is red bricks. Those are the same red bricks that they did in front of the Ridgewood Theater when the sidewalks were redone around 1979-1980. While the Madison was closed already, it may have still had it's marquee yet, and perhaps all hope wasn't yet lost, as they only used those red bricks (instead of just the lines of red bricks in the concrete like they used in the majority of the sidewalks on Myrtle Ave when all the sidewalks were redone between Wyckoff Ave and Fresh Pond Rd in 1979-1980

Bway,
Thanks for your reply in regard to Madison's balcony area,which today exists as a furniture area. I looked at that balcony photo that Warren posted over and over. The mezzanine you mention is the first five rows, which do appear sloped, but the measurements seem to add up to the fact there is the back portion of the balcony that is closed to the public. The door you mention must be part of that opening in the middle, which also confirms that the balcony is divided in two through the middle width wise. I wonder what is back there? The dome? the chandelier? the seats? The old marble staircase which appears to now be a auxiliary exit must lead to the back portion of the former balcony.

Here's a rare view of the auditorium in its final years. A bit of the ceiling dome can be seen at upper right: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/rkomadvue.jpg
And for those who might have missed it, here's a repeat of a view of the grand lobby from the same period: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/madisonfoyer.jpg

Thanks, Warren.

Wonderful! Thanks so much.
The curve of that balcony is all that remails in the store that now occupies the site. The drop ceiling begins just above the flat part of the curve. I wonder what if anything remains of the balcony. I believe that the furniture section of the store upstairs only occupies the mezzanine part of the balcony, not the balcony sloped part itself.

Thank you Warren for the photo.
Bway, in reply to your post, this view of the balcony gives a better perspective in comparison to the liberty store configuration,from what I see, the edge of the balcony to about where the railing is is the furniture area,which does appear sloped in Warren's photo. The opening to the left must be the top landing of the marble staircase, which no longer exists.If the photographer moved just to the right, that door, that we all want to enter in todays configuration appears.I do want to take photos and compare them, I hope they let me!

Yes I agree. I believe the furniture area is the mezzanine of the balcony, which of course would be out of view here, behind that opening up at the second rail. I believe that opening at the right in warren's photo is where that "door" is if you are in the furniture section. I believe the grand staircase was to the far right, out of view in this photo.

It was my impression during a visit last year that the furniture department occupies the mezzanine promenade, not a section of seats that might have been called "mezzanine" (in some theatres known as "loge"). The marble staircase brought you up from the lobby to the mezzanine promenade, which had entrances at both ends to the back row of the mezzanine seats and the first row of the balcony seats. You can see one of those entrances at left under the white marble posts.

Bway
The entrance foyer to the store in respect to Warren's picture, is looking to the left as you enter from the street,according to your post. Then the today's staircase to the furniture area, puzzles me as much as the other picture of the balcony does.Is today's staircase a modernized version of the marble one?

Or,is the the view perspective with the photographer's back facing the entrance doors,and the orchestra entrance is to the left?

What I was saying, is basically what Warren said too.... The furniture store is NOT in the balcony where the seating was, but what I called the "balcony Mezzanine". I don't know what the correct term for that area would be, but it's the area you would come to after ascending the grand staircase, but you are still not in the seating area yet. I severely doubt they leveled the balcony seating area, which is probably all still behind that door upstairs in the furniture area, to the left in the middle when you first come up. I believe that door leads to the white area in Warren's photo, on the right of the photo, which would be the middle of the actual balcony.
As for the grand staircase, wheather or not the grand staircase was removed is up for debate, as I have no idea, but the current staircase in the store looks nothing in structure to what the grand stairway looks in Warren's photo of the Madison foyer. They either jackhammered it up, or closed it in behind a wall, and then built the current store stairway, which if jackhammered, may lead to where the original staircase led, or is a totally new structure that they added. That stairway has been there since the Odd Lot days, so whatever happened happened soon after the theater was gutted.

As for warren's photo of the foyer, I "think" that the outer lobby would be to the left (along with Myrtle Ave), and the auditorium would be to the right, but I am not sure of that.

Thank you Bway,
I now have a better understanding of Madison's original configuration. Perhaps some interior photos of the store may be in order.

I have a tentative trip to the City planned for October, and I'll ask if I can take a few photos inside the Liberty Department Stores. Other than being a little bigger inside than it looks from the outside, I couldn't visualize it as ever having been anything but a bargain department store. Maybe someone who remembers it when it was still a theater can connect the dots.

MrBill, those of us who remember the RKO Madison when it was still a theater have been trying to connect the dots now for years, as you can read right here on this page.

It would be great if there were some sort of architectural graphics computer program, into which digital photos of both the RKO Madison as it once was, as a movie theater, and as it is now, as a Liberty Department Store, could be input, and it would then generate, as output, plan, elevation, section (two-dimensional) and axonometric (solid) drawings of the RKO Madison as both a theater and as a Liberty Department Store, to help answer such questions as, are the balcony seats and ceiling still behind that door up in the furniture department ? Was the grand staircase jackhammered out, or is it still behind some wall ? etc.

Peter K.(aka PKoch?)
Thats an excellent idea, if it is possible, I for one never being in Madison as a theater, would find that quite interesting.In the meantime,I would like to take some before and after photos, the older ones that Warren provided would be excellent to compare to today's store. The only real way to solve the mystery would be to ask the manager for access to areas not open to the public, I have a feeling there are some viewing treasures behind those walls and above the ceiling.

Yes, Panzer65, Peter.K = PKoch. I don't know if such a computer program exists. I agree, the only real way to solve the mystery would be to ask the manager for access to areas not open to the public. Do you intend to do this ?

I don't want to make promises PKoch, but with every posting I see about connecting the dots, I feel I must visit the Madison that was left behind in '78.Armed with my camera and an explorer's mentality, I must see the manager first, after that obstacle, I may make Cinema Treasures history.

Panzer65, I hope you do, and that, once you have, you write about it here.

Panzer65, perhaps it's time for you to boldy go where no CT member has gone before : behind the walls and through the doors of the Liberty Dept. Store that was once the RKO Madison Theatre !

My last visit was July of last year, I posted what I had taken in dated July 14, 2007. Hopefully it will be more detailed, and of course, the photos to prove it.

PKoch ,your making me feel like the James T. Kirk of CT!

It's funny; I thought about asking the guy up near the front of the store (the manager?) if I could take a few shots inside the Liberty, but I didn't feel good. Maybe I should have asked anyway. Maybe he wasn't even the manager; just another cashier. But I will ask if I go back in October.

Maybe someone on the board who remembers the Madison when it was still a theater could meet me at the store and look around with me.

I was only in the Madison when I was a little kid, and really don't remember too much about it, other than "it was fancy". I can't recall the layout at all. I remember it as Odd Lot, Consumers, and the Busy Bee Compartment stores much better than I remember it as a theater. But in any of those stores, there was no theater ornamentation whatsoever left in view. It was all gone by the first store, Consumers already. The only difference with Consumers was that the public could only be in the front of the store, where you looked through catalogs (like Service Merchandise used to be). That only used the area of the former outer lobby. I don't even think the inner lobby was a part of the public space. The auditorium was the warehouse for the Consumers. It is possible at that point that the auditorium was still completely exposed. After Consumers, it became Odd Lot, and that was the first time the entire auditorium was opened up for retail. The curve of the balcony through the building was visable then, just as it is now. The drop ceiling was probably put in when Odd lot took over.
What I am hazy about though is just "when" the fire took place. I know the Madison burned, but I don't remember if it was between:

The Theater and Consumers or between
Consumers and Odd Lot or between
Odd Lot and Busy Bee Compartment Store.

I draw a blank there. I know it didn't burn after Busy Bee and Liberty, that much I can say for sure, but I don't know where the fire occured between the three scenarios above.

I also don't know how bad the fire was, I just remember "the fire".

Anyway, yes, interior photos would be great, and I wish and hope that the management will be coopertive and let you see some "hidden" areas. Obviously they would know what is "behind that door" upstairs in the furniture Department. I think the answer to what is left of the ceiling dome, the balcony, and the theater itself is behind that door. That door may lead to what is left of the Balcony seating area, and once in that area, I believe that the balcony still may be open to the high ceiling above the fake drop ceiling that is through the back end of the store. The top of the Procenium arch may even still be all up there...... Warren's photos only make me more intrigued by what may be left - hidden.....
I

Bway, the fire was between The Theater and Consumers. I remember looking into the charred interior in April 1979, and have posted above about it, probably more than four years ago. I don't know the exact date of the fire. I'm guessing it was between November 1978 and February 1979.

Yes, the mystery of what may remain of the theater "behind that door" IS very intriguing !!!!

Panzer65, I'm glad I made you feel like James T. Kirk.

Now, to switch to a 1975 demonic possession - horror movie :

"Panzer65 and Bway have gone .......... BEYOND THE DOOR !!!!!!!"

"WHERE OLD THEATRE OBSESSION GROWS .... AND GROWS .... AND GROWS !!!!"

Or, you might go through that door into a balcony seat and back into the past and see a movie up on that huge old screen .... next stop : The Twilight Zone !

Hahaha, good one Peter....that "door" has really become the almost the legend......just "what" is "behind that door".....
But there you go, step to through that door into.....The Twilight Zone......

The intoduction is incorrect in it's final sentence above, which says something to the effect of "the current retail space only uses the former lobby, and the theater may be intact inside". That isn't correct, the Liberty Department store uses the whole downstairs auditorium from the stage to the inner and outer lobbies. Nothing is intact in the theater, at least at ground level. The only thing that "could" be intact is perhaps the ceiling dome, and perhaps the top of the walls, and perhaps, maybe part of the balcony "behind the door", but other than that, NOTHING remains, and nothing is visable in the whole store, except you can see the physical curve of the balcony as it stretches across the former theater.

Peter, thanks for confirming when the fire was. I thought it was after the theater closed, but before converting to retail.
Ironically, perhaps if it didn't burn, they wouldn't have gutted it as fully as it was gutted, as they wouldn't have needed to. But the fire probably really damaged a lot of the interior, if not just the fire itself, but the water when putting it out, and then what the fire and water didn't destroy, the soot and smoke from the fire would have really destroyed everything else.... So really, even if by some slight chance the upper portions of the walls and the ceiling dome remain "behind that door" in the balcony, it's probably heavily damaged from the soot, and then let's not forget it's been another 30 years since the fire. Sadly, even if we "look beyond the door", it would probably be disappointing, but it is possible, the upper walls and what's left of the balcony could be still there, even if in shambles.

Good thoughts, Bway. I'd never realized that about the introduction to the RKO Madison on this page.

Yes, that door has almost become a legend on this CT page for the former RKO Madison.

You're welcome to my confirmation of when the fire was.

We'll never know what's "beyond the door" until someone looks.

Glad you liked my joke about "Beyond The Door" and The Twilight Zone.

Maybe Fast Eddie is behind that door with the corpse of Mae West !

Thanks Bway & Peter K.,
I may be stepping into The Twilight Zone beyond that door, excellent view upon the once proud RKO Madison and its possible hidden treasures.It just adds to the mystique, these mysteries of unseen areas that are waiting to be discovered.

Bway, really puts the whole mystery into perspective, we must remember that unfortunately there was a fire, so if anything remains it may be water damaged, soot accumulation,or the bleak possibility that because of these circumstances,the manager may not allow access to areas not open to the public, which may present a hazard. The next question is if that happens,no one including CT members will ever venture to areas that should be documented and photographed for people like myself who want to experience first hand what this once beautiful theater looked like.

Just found a link to an old article about when the Busy Bee opened in 1988 - http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE7D61238F933A15752C1A96E948260

One of the quotes from the article is 'the restoration of the theater's fanciful Baroque facade removes a blight from Myrtle Avenue'. Blight? What was the reporter thinking?

I got a feeling there's no longer anything of interest beyond the door, but I'll ask if I can look anyway.

You're welcome, Panzer65. Your cautions about going "beyond that door" are right-on, and well worth heeding.

You can get SOME idea of what this once beautiful theater looked like from the photos that Warren and others have posted links to.

MrBill, thanks for the New York Times article. Here's a quote from it :

"The Madison was built in 1927 for burlesque and vaudeville and was the second largest theater in Queens, behind the RKO Keith in Flushing."

I never knew the Madison was the second largest theater in Queens. Thanks. As to "blight", all I can think is : the presence of an ugly store that gave no hint that the building it is in, was once a beautiful theater. The restoration of the baroque facade would serve as a reminder that the building was indeed once a theater.

Thanks in advance for asking if you can look "beyond the door". I'll be eager to read what you find out, once you've posted it here.

Re:Peter's quote from The New York Times:
"The Madison was built in 1927 for burlesque and vaudeville and was the second largest theater in Queens, behind the RKO Keith in Flushing."
Looking outside it does not appear like a large theater,but looking at the square footage inside, it is deceiving.

You have to go around to the back and sides of the Madison on Wyckoff Avenue and Madison Street to get a good idea of its true size. The frontage on Myrtle Avenue is deceptively small. The same is true of the RKO Bushwick, even more so, with its "Flatiron Building" type "nose", where the marquee once was, at Bway, Howard Avenue, and Monroe Street : stand on the southwest corner of Madison Street and Howard Avenue, and look diagonally across that intersection to the northeast corner occupied by the Bushwick to get a good idea of its true size.

To do the same for the Ridgewood, one needs to go to the eastern corner of Cypress Avenue and Madison Street, and look diagonally across to the Ridgewood at the western corner.

Panzer65, I also appreciate that NY Times quote, because it correctly places the RKO Madison in Queens.

Just for chuckles I looked up the Liberty Department Stores on the map. It's about a half-block inside of Queens. The Queens County line goes NW on Wyckoff to Palmetto, then NE for a short block, then back NW on St. Nicholas.

Excellent point Peter,I saw some old photos of the RKO Greenpoint,which unfortunately is no longer in existence, and it too used the same engineering technique, having the marquee and the lobby
amongst storefronts, usually on a main avenue, then having the auditorium offset 45 to 90 degrees sideways. A clever but functional
way of accommodating a large structure , without compromising space on a city block. And as I have mentioned in previous posts, the early 20 th century base ball venues used the same technique in comparison,
actually squeezing in a large structure amongst smaller ones as not to compromise space and functionality. There are not many specimens left to compare to, but the classic example would be Boston's Fenway Park,
a true asymmetrical structure.

I enjoyed your article that you found on the Busy Bee! Two interesing points... One is that it said that "it was being used as a retail complex when it burned". That would mean after Odd Lot? But that doesn't coincide with what Peter thought he remembered, and what I thought I remembered, but something in the back of my mind thought it was after Odd Lot...unless that was a second fire? I really can't remember.

The other thing I do remember though was when they BEAUTIFULLY restored the exterior facade of the Madison before the Busy Bee store opened. The Madison had these BEAUTIFUL Gothic windows. The Busy Bee sign was a tasteful sign that was put UNDER those windows, in the location of the old marquee, except it was flat, the marquee was gone. The stones were steam cleaned, and the whole building repointed. The windows were also replaced. It looked stunning. Unfortunately, after Busy Bee closed, the Liberty Dept store decided to put a HUGE sign up, that covered over all that beautiful masonary work. I have no idea why......

Thanks, MrBill. Right on about the Queens county line.

Thanks for the compliment, Panzer65. Many older theaters used the engineering / architectural technique that you mention. Good observation !

Thanks, Bway, for your Busy Bee / Liberty cmt. about the Madison's exterior facade.

I know that it's difficult to find things in here, but I pasted that very same article into a comment on Jun 3, 2006 at 5:11pm. Should the link that MrBill posted stop working, the article will still be available in the June 3, 2006 comment above.

Thanks Lost, I must have missed it, or it's so long ago I don't remember!

I hereby apologize for my duplicate postings.

If one looks at aerial views of the Ridgewood and RKO Madison Theatres, one can see how small the part that fronted on Myrtle Avenue is, in comparison to the rest of the theatre.

Regarding the former RKO Madison Theatre, the back of the entrance-outer lobby part of the building is completely connected with the main auditorium portion, unlike the Ridgewood Theatre, as previously noted. I think the only restrooms in the RKO Madison were on the balcony level, with none at street level. I think the only non-theater use of the building was that small store in the eastern end of the facade on Myrtle Avenue.

I'm not sure if there was anything else to the second story of the entrance-outer lobby part of the RKO Madison, other than the exit staircase from the balcony to the outer lobby.

once upon a time, I would LOVE to read your recollections of moviegoing at the RKO Madison Theatre !

peter .k, panzer65
Preceding note: The following reflects my memories of the 1940’s and early ‘50’s.

The very sound of ‘R.K.O. Madison’ evoked a tone of distinction and grandeur!

Upon leaving the Box Office, one was guided through the brightly illuminated outer Lobby along brass plated stanchions interlaced with red velour cords leading into the Main Lobby. It was there the full majesty of plush carpets and marbled walls, highlighted by magnificent chandeliers, emblazoned the Madison’s regal splendor!

On the left side of the plush lobby, multiple double doors opened into the orchestra floor . However, if one opted for balcony seating, a charming treat was forthcoming!

After ascending the white marble staircase, one entered into the cavernous mezzanine. The affluence of the ornate terrazzo floor was reflected in the richness of the deep toned wood paneled walls. While awaiting a friend, or start of the Show, one could comfortably relax in genuine leather covered chairs or equally plush sofas. There were also magnificent paintings for viewing .Complimenting that luxury and entering from its seating area, were the spacious Ladies and Gentlemen’s Lounges.

Walking through carpeted, wood paneled access hallways, patrons were then ushered forward into Loge seats or escorted upwards into one of the balconies. The seats were very soft with comfortably wide armrests. Adding to the ambiance; during the seating period, live organ music helped to quicken the flow of the many hundreds of patrons being guided by nattily uniformed ushers and usherettes. An added touch of class was the flourishing of the of the stage curtain as it ceremoniously signaled the start of the Featured Movie. Note; The music accompanied Friday and Saturday evening performances. Also, in latter year of my visits, I think the music was ‘piped’ in.

The pictures shown were mostly R.K.O. produced or distributed. For a full history of Radio-Keith-Orpheum go to; http://www.answers.com/topic/rko-pictures

So as not to overly aggrandize the Madison, I’ll point out that they had some less regal
ballyhoo. For instance, when publicizing an upcoming horror movie, compared to the Ridgewood Theatre, which merely advised audience’s to notify management of any Heart conditions. The Madison blatantly announced they would have emergency care provided in the Lobby. Alas, some matron in white, who drew the short straw, would be stationed aside a cot…. waiting for the faint of heart to be carried in from the shrieking audience

They were also a bit less ‘regal’ when ejecting kids from their designated front-right orchestra ‘battle zone’. The ‘all-seeing, all-knowing’ white clad ‘guards’ had a very effective way of restoring quiet during the ‘mush’ scenes. The stratagem was not a single ray of light directed at one unruly kid, but rather, a broad beam flashing across two entire rows, accompanied with the crackling command: “These two rows,…Out” !!!


The vision of two dozen kids being marched out of the theatre by the conquering Matron, quickly brought about a more easily controlled Saturday Matinee.

My last reflection is of my late teens and conjures up one of life’s, ‘What-If’, scenarios: Friday nite at the Madison; dressed in a light sport jacket with matching shirt and slacks, etc. My buddy and I were escorted to seats along side one of the balcony’s access passage ways. I was attracted to our usherettes vibrant smile. My seat was right along side the passageway, in which I happily noticed, she was stationed. As the music played, I noticed a slight movement of her feet, beneath her flared uniform slacks. The shifting increased with the music’s tempo as though subtly dancing to the rhythm. To emphasize those moments of inner excitement, I lit a cigarette while glancing and shyly smiling at the black-haired usherette. Then it happened…..She coyly looked down at her shifting feet and miracles of miracles; she looked back up…at me…and smiled…invitingly!

More than fifty years later, I warmly reflect on my many memories of The Madison. Alas, the most cherished was a Friday night, the balcony, and a smiling usherette in a sparkling black and red uniform. I saw her several more times during the Show, but in my youthful awkwardness, I didn’t (work up the nerve?) speak to her.

I’ve recalled that early boy-girl awareness several times during my later life… each time wondering….What if?

Thanks so much, once upon a time !

Please visit Bushwick Buddies for a few images of the inside of the RKO Madison in all the regal splendor that you have here so wonderfully recalled and posted for all of us here at CT !

http://www.bushwickbuddies.com

once upon a time
Thank you for sharing your memories of the Madison theater, its interesting to hear recollections of past theater goers, and it also
is interesting to know first hand that in opulent venues such as this, that going to the movies was not just going there and sitting to watch a movie, but to take in the atmosphere and charm of a classic movie house.

Yes, Panzer65, it was like visiting a palace, concert hall, opera house, or a historic art museum, like the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

As opposed to nowadays, hunkering down in "the concrete bunker at the end of the shopping mall", for a half hour or previews and commercials, before the feature movie starts.

Even if it IS in 3-D and six-channel digital DTS sound !

Yes, once upon a time, what IF you had returned that coy usherette's demure smile ...

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but my curiosity about the configuration of today's Liberty store furniture area,formerly the mezzanine promenade and balcony, has once been awakened.
Peter , you mentioned that the only restrooms in the Madison were in the balcony and not at street level, could they perhaps be functional today as the only restrooms in the store? If so that may explain why that door up there is sometimes ajar as Bway had mentioned. If this is the case, this may be an opportunity to have a look at any possible remnants of the theater (dome, chandelier, seats).I'm still wondering if I should ask the manager for access there.
once upon a time, in many postings on this page, we have wondered where exactly that marble staircase was located.Many of us feel it was either removed or hidden behind a wall. Any recollections of its exact location? I was also confused about the configuration of the mezzanine and balcony, your description of it during Madison's heyday was a perfect description, wish I had attended while it was active!

Panzer65 :

Restrooms, "beyond that door" : It seems that the only way to find out is to visit. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. What could the management do, besides say no ? Have you arrested as a terrorist suspect ?

Marble (grand) staircase : was at the far end of the inner lobby, the near end being the entrance from the outer lobby. The marble grand staircase would have been (you should excuse the expression) up against the (Wyckoff Avenue) wall of the building.

Here's the link to one of the two images of the inner lobby on Bushwick Buddies :

http://www.bushwickbuddies.com/isapi.dll?c=Content&htx=View&siteid=4ncZAE&contentid=ZZZZZJIV&contentclass=PICT&categoryid=328

Scroll down and you will see other images from the late 1920's, shortly after the theatre opened.

Thank you Peter,
I'm having trouble with that link, I need a password, can you help?
If the staircase was on the Wyckoff side, then chances are it may very well be eliminated, judging by my last visit. The dimensions of that area do not allow a structure of that size to be hidden behind a wall.

Panzer65.....Be careful when exploring 'Beyond that Door' and other musty darkened halls of the Madison..there may be a stalking Ghost of that White Clad Matron still roaming around....and believe me...she was...Mean...!

If you see a beam of light suddenly shinning on you..Run to the Lobby..there may still be a stretcher to recover on.

Panzer65, you need to register first.

Try this shorter link :

http://www.bushwickbuddies.com/

once upon a time : Good one !

Those nurses, matrons, and stretchers on-hand were sometimes a gimmick of those late 1950's, early 1960's William Castle "gimmick" movies, like "The Tingler" and "House On Haunted Hill". Ditto the ambulance parked outside (I think that was for "Macabre", pronounced by 12-year-old Stephen King and friends as "McBare" !).

The balcony of the Madison, and also this page, are also haunted by ....

Fast Eddie, and the ghost (or corpse) of Mae West !

It reads like most of the appeal of that usherette smiling at you was the idea of a perceived disciplinarian suddenly appearing to be a possible girlfriend.

I shudder to think what those Nurse Ratched-tough matrons with those piercing and probing flashlight beams, would have done to guys pleasuring themselves while watching porno movies ....

The Ghost of the White Clad Matron,Fast Eddie, The Twilight Zone and the calls of Mannequins asking for Marsha..Marsha..?, interesting indeed. There may be hazards up in Liberty Stores upper echelons, but
it makes the possible journey that more interesting.Perhaps those restrooms may still be Madison's original equipment. Very worthy of a Cinema Treasures historic tour.
Peter and once upon a time, you give me the motivation, now I must"Go where no Cinema Treasures member has gone before". I must say the last few postings have been quite funny, I appreciate the humor. Especially the one about the nurses and porno movies.
I could be scared enough to run down that marble staircase,to a waiting lobby matron , but hey, did James T. Kirk ever get scared?

Hey, Panzer, I got a tentative trip to New York planned for early October, and the Madison is high on my hit-list again. If we can round up Mr. Spock and Dr. McCoy, maybe we can find truth, justice and the American Way. Wait a minute; that's Superman. Who cares? We can check it out anyway.

Panzer65, James T. Kirk always had a good, healthy fear reaction, which saved his life countless times.

The actor who played him, William Shatner, did so much screaming on-screen, early in his career, that he was known as "the male Fay Wray".

I've also suggested to Bway that those movie matrons later got jobs in video stores, where their job was to shame and embarrass adolescent boys out of renting porno movies.

The Nurse Ratched - McMurphy male sexuality confrontation / conflict is, of course, straight out of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest".

MrBill, my wife has told me, Leonard Nimoy may PLAY Spock, but I AM Spock, in real life.

So, yes, let's revisit the RKO Madison, and go where no CT member has gone before. I don't think we'll end up with glowing eyes, and super powers that will drive us power-mad, like Gary Lockwood's character did.

Peter,
Maybe the store manager's name is Balock (portrayed by Clint Howard)in Star trek, who incidentally was in many TV shows and movies.
Movie matrons in video stores? Its possible!

MrBill
If you do gain access to Liberty Stores' upper echelons before me please do take pictures, and Bill Murray and Harold Ramis.
Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!

Panzer65, have some tranya for me. I hope you relish it as much as I.

Seriously, if ANYONE goes "beyond that [second floor furniture dept.] door" in the Liberty / former RKO Madison, and takes pictures, PLEASE POST THEM HERE !!!!

Thanks.

It would be ironic, and poetic justice indeed, if former movie matrons got jobs in the video stores that helped put the movie theaters they used to work in, out of business.

The Corbomite Manuver

Yes ... Episode Three, the first non-pilot episode made.

To all friends of the R.K.O. Madison,…past & present;

I just came across a tidbit I forgot to include in my vintage memories of the Madison, (Aug. 6.) As I did in my Ridgewood Theater submission, (July 29.), I’ll now submit my best all time favorite Double Bill I attended at the R.K.O. Madison:

‘The Will Rogers Story‘, playing with, ‘The Stars and Stripes Forever’! I saw these glorious and richly heartwarming Bio’s about 1952-’54. I attended during a weekday afternoon and sat in the balcony…sans Matron or Usherette. P.S…..I’m still wondering…’What if’…

Thanks, once upon a time. Looking forward to reading more of your RKO Madison movie memories.

"What if" .... How about writing it, as a story ?

Peter .K….Thanks for your response….as for your suggestion to flesh out the ‘What if’ scenario…..a good and provocative thought.

However, like many at my stage of life; I’ve come to realize that in looking back at what might have been a pivotal point, It‘s best to simply accept, in the final analysis;….reality prevails and one adopts the lyrical ode; Que~Sera~Sera. What will be.. will be. Or, as in the span of ones life, what was,…was.

Alas, being only human and a frustrated romanticist….I’ll still wonder…‘What if…?’

You're welcome, once upon a time.

I can understand the fascination of "What if ..." : what one can't have, or didn't have, always seems to be more desirable than what one can, or did, have, of relations with the opposite sex.

Speaking of movies AND real life stars seen at the RKO Madison....

Was any one here there for "Two on a Guillotine" and saw Cesar Romero and Connie Stevens on stage?

I was....

lol

Thanks, depaul420. Glad to read that.

Did you also see them eating next door to the RKO Madison at the Ridgewood Terrace Chinese Restaurant ?

Bette at the Madison
http://bp3.blogger.com/_IpFwFTEJH9A/R7cGsztXcjI/AAAAAAAAB0k/xLjfVtf-1Jg/s1600-h/aajane11.jpg

I saw that movie at the Madison. I'm not sure of the date but it might have been October or November of 1962.

Thanks, RobertR and Lost Memory !

Too bad Joan Crawford wasn't there, too, to be served a dead rat on a plate by Bette Davis !

Either on the stage of the RKO Madison or next door at the Ridgewood Terrace Chinese Restaurant !

When JOAN payed a visit to the playhouse/squire in greatneck
for a movie promo they had to cover all coke bev.
signs.....

she was pepsi!

Thanks, wally75 !

COME ALIVE ! YOU'RE IN THE PEPSI GENERATION !

TASTE THAT BEATS THE OTHERS COLD !

PEPSI POURS IT ON !

I wish Joan Crawford had been at the Madison for "I Saw What You Did" in the summer of 1965, when I went there to see it.