Ziegfeld Theatre
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
131 people
favorited this theater
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Gee William, five changeovers a day. I’ll bet you did not miss any. I had a similar situation at Century’s Green Acres on Long Island when it was a triplex, we were running “War Games†in 70mm on a platter and the Will Rogers collection trailer was in 35mm. So I also had five changeovers a day. By the way, The Green Acres, when it was a single screen, was one of a few locations on Long Island with three projectors in the booth. Century had three at, Green Acres, Plainview and Route 110 drive-in. UA had three projectors at the Calderone. Now-a-days must theatres have only one.
I would agree with you, I’d love to see them fire up the #2 machine at the Ziegfeld, run a show reel-to-reel and see what happens. Can ya hear the ding-ding-ding? Oh for those of you who may not be aware of what we are writing about, ding-ding-ding refers to the sound of the reel end alarm which would sound about 2 minutes before the end of the reel to alert (wake up?) the projectionist to an upcoming changeover.
I also do not understand, as Jeff has stated, how they missed all those changeovers, it just seems so hard to comprehend. Of course in the roadshow days, after running a print for several weeks and up to a year, you pretty well knew when the cues were coming. Oh how I remember the butterflies in my stomach the first couple of times we ran a print to a packed house waiting for those cues, afraid to blink. Good times!
Thanks Vito for all your posts. It’s Great to hear that there are projectionists that ran shows the way they were meant to be shown. Yes, that platter/reel-to-reel debate will go on and on. I still get industry people coming into the booth asking where is the platter. Because they were in a theatre booth for a screening and saw a platter and think every screening is run like that. So I tell them the principals of reel-to-reel screenings and they never would guess that was the way it used to be done in the past. I remember reading during the last contract years for Roadshow engagements in Los Angeles the flat rate was $50.00 a show. They also had the premium rate for 70MM projection. We used to get a build-up fee and a fee when a print was torn down plus the regular hourly rate. The chains cut that out of the contracts, since they figured we could do the building when the regular shows were running if the print was delivered early. When I worked a vacation at Pacific’s El Capitan in Hollywood for a week I ran “Snow White”, we ran a special full frame EK print. We ran the special house curtain fanfare and the Broadway THX logo in 1.85 and then made the change-over to the feature. (on platter) I made 5 change-overs a day for the week.
What they should do for one of their new series screenings is to inspect the print first and check the cues marks on each reel and fire up the second machine and run the show and see what happens. So if that works out try it again on another film in the series.
Missed changeovers??
My gooodness, I was doing changeovers at my Grandfather’s theater when I was 10 years old! I still see the dots on every film to this very day. I don’t see how you can miss it unless you are bored with your job and are inattentive. We used to scramble when “ding-ding-ding” sounded.
Thanks William for that post even though it only managed to depress the hell out of me over what has happened in the booth. I suppose the platter/reel-to-reel debate could go on forever but I recognize the fact that platters are here to stay. Too many new people are coming into the industry with absolutely no idea of what it was like to run movies without a platter. Last night, for example, there was a news fluff piece item about a single screen drive-in theatre that had re-opened somewhere down south. I got all excited and felt a warm feeling about what a great thing that was.,,,, until they went into the booth, and there it was, a platter. I guess that punctuates the whole point of what is happening today.
But darn it, I just want to see those classic films played the way they were back in the day.
Speaking of wages, it’s nothing new to pay more for extra screens, in my day we received a premium rate for 3-D or 70mm projection. In fact while I was at Lynbrook, Syosset or D-150 on Long Island, when ever we had a reserved seat roadshow engagement we would get paid a flat rate per show, and there was always two of us in the booth at all times. Later when I worked at Sunrise Multiplex, every time they added a screen our rate went up. Try and get THAT today. By the way, I have to say, the presentations in those days were flawless. Missed changeovers?? Unheard of. If you messed up a show in any way, you would slither out of the theatre after your shift and hide you head in shame.
The problem with the “Backdraft” story is I’ve done many premieres and studio media events before. The studio always had us do a pre-screening that morning of the show, since the studio bought out the theatre auditorium all day. The operator that ran the morning show ran the evening show too. The problem had to have happened between rewinding and placing the wrong reel near the wrong projector or wrong can slot since it was 70MM. A few reasons to only use the platter system vs. reel-to-reel on premieres is that only one lamphouse is used and less chances of a problem with the second lamp and color temp on that second bulb and the operator missing the
change-over. All major screenings are done using platter systems in Los Angeles/Hollywood. The last theatre in Los Angeles that the studios let do change-overs on major screenings was the GCC Avco
Center in Westwood. But that ended when the union operator missed a few change-overs on Disney screenings. (NOTE: Disney is VERY tough & strict about these screenings) In the old days working in these large major single theatres, paid very well as a projectionist. But over the years the single screen theatre has become the lowest on the pay scale and one of the first cuts that chain hit first. (Look at the single screen UPTOWN in D.C. after AMC tookover.) Many times the theatre will employ a veteran projectionist, but the chains have cut their hours from full time operator to what is called Limited Service in the contract. From a full 40+ hour week they cut to 20-25 hours a week. Clearview did this reasonly at their 23rd Street house (Chelsea West). If you look back at how Loews handled the last year of the Astor Plaza on a Limited Service contract. About 15 years ago when I worked the extra board covering vacations for operators, I worked the Pacific’s Cinerama Dome (single screen, platter house, no automation) the pay scale was just $10.25 a hour for First Run. The next week I worked at Pacific’s Vine Theatre (single screen, platter house, with Maxi8 automation) the pay scale was also $10.25 a hour for second run. The more screens you work the more a projectionist will make. Many of the chains in this city have been cutting back in booth operations with manager/operator situations and still charging the patron the full price admission for poor presentaions. (Remember to read how AMC is killing the UPTOWN in D.C.)
Yes Craig, please
Fact: The risks to running a print on a platter are far greater than they are running reel-to-reel.
Unlike a reel-to-reel operation, you are always at risk for a brain wrap or a thrown print, and yes I know there are preventive measures that can be taken, but these things happen anyway.
Next risk is in the speed control card failures that are more common than most people think. This failure causes erratic control of the speed a platter turns, or causes complete failure of a disk to operate.
The “Backdraft†issue was due to the projectionist running the wrong reel. Well, that can just as easily happen with a print mounted on a platter. I have seen reels out of order, upside down and even backwards.
Are ya scared yet??
I would not care if they even ran the print reel-to-reel on 6k reels to help with the life of the bulb.
Craig, you may have noticed they still put changeover cues on the prints being released today.
Come on big guy, lets use em. Oh, and as for the 2nd 70mm DTS reader you will need for 70mm DTS prints, I mean come on now, how expensive can they be.
Please take what I have written with all the good intentions I can muster, I am just an old fashion guy looking to preserve a little projection history.
I agree with both vito and Jeff S. I only offered the “Backdraft” story as the Ziegfeld’s excuse… not to endorse it. It boggles my mind – even with the limited knowledge I have about the profession – that a single screen house like the Ziegfeld that employs a veteran projectionist (this is not a manager/operator situation) would ever run platter. I wonder if Craig would care to offer some kind of explanation or rationale.
Good story Al
Oh Ed, I am so tired of hearing that “Backdraft†story, and while I know it’s true I also know it was a rare occurrence in a reel-to-reel operation.
I agree with Jeff, switching to platters was a ridiculous solution, the problem with the wrong reel being shown is far worse when it happens on a print loaded on a platter than it is reel-to-reel. When the wrong reel hits the sheet in a reel-to-reel operation it only takes a few minutes to correct, when the print is mounted on a platter out of order it could be an hour or more before it can be corrected. The problem with platter mounted prints out of order is so severe that National Amusements has a rule that all prints must be screened before opening day. This to check print quality, but mostly to ensure that the print is not mounted out of sequence, which happens far more often than it ever did in the good ole days of reel-to-reel. Granted we are not talking about professionals here but manager/operators which of course is a whole other story. We can all agree that platters are a necessary evil in multi screen operations, but using one at the Ziegfeld, using that tired old “Backdraft†excuse does not cut it. OK, so if some misinformed studio exec wants his/her premiere shown on a platter, so be it, but unless the print is screened in advance the same “Backdraft scenario will occur again, and if there is a God, a couple of brain wraps as well. So go ahead, use the platter when directed by someone for a specific show, then cover the darn thing up in plastic and go back to reel-to-reel..
I was really looking forward to the Fall series at the Ziegfeld. When I saw the list I was greatly disapointed (now don’t start the rant) Everyone who filled out those cards I’m sure put more big screen titles that aren’t shown much (I myself put down “Cleopatra”, The Alamo" to name a few) This is a dull list, (Great movies) but these films are done to death. “Spiderman”, “Batman”.. who picked those??/ Classics?? Not yet… I’ll stick with the Lafayette and see “Kane” there I guess.
How about “American Cinematheque at the Ziegfeld presents…”?
“That was one of the reasons that the platter system was adopted in this house – to assure big shot filmmakers and distributors that such a problem would never happen again and that the Ziegfeld was still the place to book such major premieres.”
ED! That’s a laugh! Like prints can’t be built up in the wrong order on platters!! HaHaHa! They still come on 2K reels! Assembling in order on the platter or mounting in order on alternate projectors. Real difference… What an excuse.
“Perhaps once this upcoming "viewers' choice” series has proven a big success (as I pray it does), we can convince [whoever] to take a cue from his L.A. counterparts and really program a first rate schedule of classics for the Winter of 2007."
I wholeheartedly second that one.
Ed: excellent idea all around, and not outside the realm of possibility! The Ziegfeld was one of the venues in this year’s Tribeca Film Festival, even though it’s many blocks north of Tribeca.
Remember: at this same time last year the whole concept of classics at the Ziegfeld sounded like a pipe dream too.
One upon a time there was a rare and lonely female projectionist at an imaginary Manhattan cinema with a bad back. She had trouble lifting the reels and demanded that the cinema install a platter so she could build the film up once and never ever have to pick up a reel again.
The boys at home office cried “poppy cock”!. The boys at the Union said “nonsence and stuff!”.
The rare and lonely female projectionist went to her lawyer and made sure that “reel to reel” was banished from the land forever and that the bad boys never again made it impossible to earn a living as long as technology was available and disability laws were there to protect her job.
Jeff S. I’m located in the Brill Building.
Some time ago, someone made mention here of an incident at the World Premiere of Ron Howard’s “Backdraft” where the Ziegfeld projectionist ran the reels out of order to the anger and embarassment of all involved. That was one of the reasons that the platter system was adopted in this house – to assure big shot filmmakers and distributors that such a problem would never happen again and that the Ziegfeld was still the place to book such major premieres. Fine. But if they want to make some hey as a part-time revival house and they have the capability to run reel-to-reel and therefore book top notch large format prints, why not do so and save the platter presentations for the first run fare? I know they employ at least one veteran projectionist who should be chomping at the bit for the opportunity to put on a show, old school!
Of course, that still leaves us with the problem of not having an experienced and knowledgable programmer and booker to hunt down the finest 35mm and 70mm prints available. Perhaps once this upcoming “viewers' choice” series has proven a big success (as I pray it does), we can convince Craig to take a cue from his L.A. counterparts and really program a first rate schedule of classics for the Winter of 2007. Someone mentioned how the Film Forum books an awesome program but lacks the facilities of the Ziegfeld. Would it be out of the question to run a program in conjunction with the Film Forum? Arrange for the FF programmers to book a slate of films for a 5 week series on some sort of split profit agreement… “The Film Forum at the Ziegfeld”!
Sure Ed, smoke another pipe.
Thanks William, I appreciate that info. By the way, It’s nice to know that there are still some reel-to-reel operations left.
I ran reel-to-reel for most of my professional life, I grew to hate platters. While I understand the need for those contraptions in a multi screen operation, I cannot imagine why a projectionist would choose to run a platter in a single screen operation like the Ziegfeld. I would go insane siting all day with almost nothing to do but lace up a projector once every couple of hours and then sit around and watch a platter go around. Worse yet, is running Digital where all it takes is a few keystrokes on a computer and you are done. If I were working the Ziegfeld I would be eager to get my hands on those classic films and play them reel-to-reel, it would be such a hoot. But I guess you and I are from a different generation of projectionist. May a platter never see the light of day in your theatre.
William: where?
Vito I confirmed that there are two JJ’s in the booth in my earier post on August 15th 7:01am. It’s all up to Clearview and the projectionist that is working the job. A friend told me that the theatre could run without a problem, but they choose to run platter presentations. I run reel-to-reel 5 days a week in the city.
Let me take back a statement I made in my previous post. I wrote it was easier to run platter than reel-to-reel. I most certainly DO NOT
agree with that idea at all. No self-respecting projectionist would say that, only an “operator” would.
I say nonsense, pure nonsense to the notion that it is better to run movies on a platter then reel-to-reel. It’s NOT better, just easier, but the risks involved in running a print on a platter are far greater than reel-to-reel, ever wonder why the studios won’t allow the classic films to be run on a platter?. One reason is the risk of damage a platter can do to a print. My goodness, I have to laugh at these idiots who talk about the advantage to platters, We had
reel-to-reel presentations for some 50 years before platters came along in the mid 70s and did just fine, thank you very much.
As to the number of projectors at the Ziegfeld, last I heard the two Centurt JJ 35/70 projectors were still there, along with a third Digital projector. The confusion may lie in the fact that only one of the JJs are equipt with a DTS 70mm sound reader, so a 70mm Dts print like LOA was run on a platter. Perhaps someone could confirm this. Finally, if in fact both 35/70 projectors are still in tact, there should be no reason not to run the 35mm classics, and any 70 mag sound prints, reel-to-reel. Come on Clearview, lt’s do it right!
I saw a double feature of Citizen Kane and Touch of Evil at the Loews/Sony Union Square, about 8 years ago (just slightly before DVDs) on a very big screen in a “stadium” style theater.
I don’t need to see Citizen Kane again, certainly not at the Ziegfeld, which I still contend isn’t a very good place to see a movie. Bad, echoey sound, poor prints, uncomfortable seats… and scheduling conflicts. Sorry for the rant.
I’m very much looking forward to the fall “classics” at the Lafayette in Suffern, NY. Now, there’s a place to see a movie.
JSA said:
“Just to see the words "WEST SIDE STORY” appear towards the end of the overture on the giant screen is pure magic."
I agree – that is a real goosebump moment even on TV, but on a big screen with the music playing loud, there’s nothing else like it. I still remember my reaction to that title appearing when I first saw the movie at the age of 8.
If you haven’t already seen it, this link will take you to a picture of that very shot being created for the film, thanks to Marty Hart:
View link
WSS is arguably the most influential and revolutionary musical of its time, if not all time. Just to see the words “WEST SIDE STORY” appear towards the end of the overture on the giant screen is pure magic. The aerial images of New York City during the opening sequence are spectacular, breathtaking and unforgettable.
For all this and more, among all places, NYC deserves to be THE site for the first public screening of a brand new WSS 70 mm print.
From Michael, a few posts above: “…I’ll take this opportunity to relay just how cool it was to see the new 70mm print of “Grand Prix” just a few weeks agoâ€â€¦
That film demands the big screen!!! Awesome! It’s on my Dome widescreen “wish listâ€! Someday…
JSA
Like out of sync sound for days, and a jam that almost ended a show doesn’t look bad?
These happened, as you know.
Just sounds like excuses.
I don’t think NYC is going to get the same caliber of 70mm shows that LA and Hollywood get. Apparently nobody in management is interested in taking the steps to see that it can work. It much easier to rent Grease, Jaws, ET, and be done with it.
It’s dissapointing.
That was what I was told by someone that works for them. The big fear is that the projectionist misses the change-over at a screening and the presentation looks bad for the house. When doing big premieres and media events the studios will not let you run reel to reel shows anymore. Also the chains have to maintain that extra bulb for the second lamphouse. That’s money just sitting in that lamphouse not being used.