Ziegfeld Theatre
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
131 people
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Irv:
The new issue of Premiere magazine has a survey of the 100 greatest performances in film history. That’s over 100 years-including silents, foreign films, etc. Peter O' Toole’s performance in “Lawrence” is rated # 1. Obviously, this will be as controversial as AFI’s lists, but check out the magazine to see why they picked him as # 1.
I am very happen to see that the spirit here not only has calmed down (that includes me), but also is looking at the series as a whole. I saw “West Side Story,” “Ben-Hur,” “Raiders,” “CE3K,” and “Lawrence.”
Just a suggestion, if , at this point, you want to contact Craig, perhaps sizing up the series as a whole with a listing of what worked for you and what didn’t—that might be helpful. I thought, for example, that “Chicago” was a mistake—the film is too new, and Monique told me that the turnout was not great. I would like to see a few more that parents will bring their children to,e.g. “Mary Poppins.” I loved seeing all the children at “Raiders.” Also,, it would fill more seats.
Although the prints were not new, I did not see one “faded” one-that’s a big issue with me. The “sync” problem with “Lawrence” definitely had to be addressed, but the picture looked great. “Volume” issues, “intermission” issues—all important.
But I really think that there is a nice consensus that IT REALLY HAPPENED!
Let’s work to make it better-and how about every performance introduced by one of us. Enthusiasm is infectious. I feel it every time I visit this site.
Thanks,
Gary
Sorry about those typos in the above post. I just read it and had to wonder where the hell my head was at. Duh!!!!
Great show last night at LoA. Image wise one of the best prints I have ever seen on the big screen. The depth, color, and clarity of this film in 70mm was amazing. Sound also perfect. Other than a few splices and minor scratches here and there, it was almost flawless. Definitely one for the history books. I have to confess though, like BethLG I can’t say I was as capitivated by this film as I was with ‘Ben Hur’ and ‘Dr. Zhivago’ as far as epics in this series. Those two films, which I had never seen before had my full attention from beginning to end. The funny thing is, that after my friends and I had left the theater and were talking about LoA, I realized that I liked it more than I thought. We kept going through some of the quotes in the film and talking about the very unique and eccentric performance by Peter O'Toole. It was one of the more off-beat characters I think I have seen in an epic of this kind. In fact I had to go and rent the DVD today at Blockbuster, just to review the film. Mind you I never had a membership at Blockbuster until today, just so I could get this film. Thank god for DVD which preserves the aspect ratio of the film. The other benefit is that Blockbuster lets you hold on two old films like this for a week, so I can really take a look at this film again at my leisure.
Anyway…what a great series this has been on to end the winter and go into the spring. Overall great
festival despite whatever flaws were noted. PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN!!!!!!!! ILOVE THE ZIEGFELD!
Robert,
Thank you for your response. It has completely changed the way I feel and think about the subject. Can’t wait to see your next project.
Regards,
JSA
I am so glad that I’ve gotten involved with this group ( and again deeply regret and apologize for losing my cool the other day)Reading the comments of Robert Harris right here is an absolute thrill-one of the giants in film restoration and preservation and certainly one of my heroes. Robert, I would like the opportunity to shake your hand one day for all that you have done.
Beth-I really believe that Craig wants this to work, and am happy not only that you contacted him but also that he responded so quickly. There is an old saying that it “takes 15 years to become an overnight success.” For me, this festival was a welcome beginning—and I don’t think it will take 15 years to reach its stride.
Thanks all,
Gary
Pete, thanks for the info. I don’t know much about the restoration of this film, so it’s interesting to hear tidbits like this. I’m glad this scene was put back in the film – it was important to see more of Faisal’s motives regarding Lawrence.
Bill, I have tried many, many times to sit through Space Odyssey on TV and was never successful. Seeing it at the Ziegfeld was a completely different situation. I had no problems at all with the length or the pacing. In fact, I was so taken by this film, it stuck with me for another couple of days afterward.
P.S. Pete, great job in presenting one of my favorite films, Kiss Me Kate, in 3D at the Lafayette a couple of weeks ago. It was a classy show, as usual.
Beth said:
“My experience seeing Space Odyssey at this theater changed my opinion drastically toward the positive, so for that, at the very least I’m grateful.”
For me, that kind of sums up what the Classics series was all about.
Beth:
Robert Harris can probably explain better (since he did it), but that was a scene restored back into the film in 1989. The image for the scene existed, but the soundtrack had been lost. The actors were brought in to re-dub their lines, but some of the dialogue was a “guess” because they didn’t have a reference to what was actually said. Obviously, their voices had aged a bit as well in 26 years as well.
Thanks to reading this entire thread yesterday, I changed my mind about skipping Lawrence of Arabia and decided to see it at the last minute last night; I’m glad I did. Seeing a film, particularly of this magnitude, at a place like the Ziegfeld is one of the joys of living in this city. I can’t say LOA is one of my favorites, but I did quite enjoy the experience. To my inexpert eye, I thought the quality of the film for the most part was fine, the sound was, to quote Lina Lamont “nice and loud,” and the audience, at least toward the front of the theater, was respectful and quiet (I did not experience the ringing cell phone that Bill mentioned). I did notice an odd dubbing situation when the reporter spoke for the first time with Prince Faisal. The volume and synch of their voices was different. This was very brief, though, maybe less than five minutes. Did anyone else notice this?
All in all, I’ll add my positive vote to those who have said that this was a great couple of months at the Ziegfeld. I’m sorry was I only able to see North By Northwest, Space Odyssey: 2001 and the aforementioned LOA, but I’m glad I saw that much. My experience seeing Space Odyssey at this theater changed my opinion drastically toward the positive, so for that, at the very least I’m grateful.
Gary, I took your advice and sent feedback via the Clearview website and already received a reply from Craig, who said they will repeat this series some time in the future. It’s gratifying to know that your opinion has actually been read by someone.
To JSA
I happen to be one of those who feel that 70mm revivals are not only entirely possible, but with the aid of the proper technical people around the country (or world) not a difficult proposition to put on the road.
Columbia makes LoA and Lord Jim available in 70. Thanks to Fox’s Schawn Belston and his staff, Fox has opened the cans of many 65mm origination productions that haven’t seen the light of day in decades… and printed them along with preservation elements.
Some others still need to be restored before they go before the public.
DTS, with their timecoded 70mm system has made print production and distribution far easier than it was in the past. I recall situations in which beutiful new prints would be damaged in either striping or sounding. And one doesn’t know until you attempt to screen the finished product.
There have been comments made in the recent past that Ultra-Panavision shows carry with them problems endemic to the breed and cannot easily be run. I don’t believe this.
With the help of highly trained and impassioned projectionists and technical directors, new 70mm prints can be tracked, inspected and distributed without major fear of the inevitable short life span that wreaked havoc on them over the past decade. Many of those technical people visit this site. Others, like Chapin Cutler and Larry Shaw of Boston Light & Sound, James Bond of Full Aperture Systems, and Steve Guttag of Cardinal Sound, can easily bring what many consider a dream to reality.
All of this must come hand in hand with the thoughtful cooperation of the programmers who must represent their various theatres as quality venues, and see that they are not only up to the task of having proper projectionists in place on quality equipment, but creating a situation via which prints need not be constantly set up and broeken down in 1 or 2 day runs.
With proper publicity and promotion, the public not tuned into CT can be brought into their local high end venues, whether that venue is set up for 70mm or a projector is brought in, set up and run by special techs. The starting point is a theatre with a huge screen and qualty audio.
Again, DTS makes this easy.
My son had grown up watching Ben-Hur on laser disc or via 4 track mag print screened at our home, albeit on a small screen. A couple of years ago, while he was looking at colleges, I arranged for a screening of the chariot race sequence at Panavision via an unfaded C65 print.
The wide-eyed awe and enthusiasm in seeing something like that for the first time need not be a unique experience.
There is a huge difference between Mr. Wyler’s work on DVD and on 60 foot screen surrounded by 1,000 fellow patrons, who have been shorn of cell phones.
It can be not only reasonably “portable,” but a viable alternative to the norm. But the entire situation must be planned and brought together from the ground up, with everything known in advance.
There is absolutely no reason why 70mm screenings cannot be as successful now as they were forty years ago.
A studio will be much more likely to strike a new print, or go through the expense of newly color correcting a printing element, if they know that ten or twenty or more playdates all await that new print, and that the print will survive the showings.
RAH
Robert Harris: Yes, of course there is innocence in my comments. There is also hope, optimism and romanticism as well. With all that comes my ignorance relative to the subject matter, since I would not be able to tell which classic films are in condition to be screened properly. I am aware that many of our classic motion pictures are either in a state of disrepair or presently unavailable for proper widescreen presentation. However, I was not suggesting a program per se, but rather the concept of a large-scale classic revival taking place simultaneously in premier venues at LA and NYC. Logistically difficult? Yes. Risky? Absolutely. Obstacles on the way? More than we can imagine. Will it happen? Probably not. But if a) such an event would ever come to fruition and b) if sufficient financial returns are realized from such an event, maybe this could send a signal to the studios. And maybe, just maybe, instead of spending $ 100 million “adapting†another bad TV show for the screen, someone in the Hollywood executive suites could instead put an end to that insanity. Take that money, invest in the studio archives and budget funds for restoration and preservation with the intent of proper theatrical release.
Robert, I sincerely appreciate the work and effort that has been put into classic film restoration, and have a high sense of gratitude and respect towards everyone involved in that endeavor. And thank you for sharing your insight relative to MW, and the 35 & 70 mm issues. Seeing the restored “Lawrence of Arabia†on the big screen back in the late 80’s was indeed a remarkable and definitive cinematic experience, not only because of the spectacular presentation, but also because up to that time I thought that such an event would have been impossible.
Much regards,
JSA
To Ed Solero…
In answer to your question re: 35 blow-ups…
Yes. One does get a finer quality image for a number of reasons inclusive of the large format print which adds image stability, illumination, etc, but still not anywhere near 65mm origination standards. Unfortunately, this is why (since the blow-ups were derived from Onegs) that many of those original negatives are trashed.
RAH
Robert, thanks for those illuminating comments on MW and the differences in quality between 35mm and 70mm. I came of true moviegoing age in the ‘70’s and by then actual 70mm cinematography was pretty much a thing of the past, so I can’t say that I’ve really experienced a bona fide 70mm exhibition more than maybe once or twice in my life! Just about all of the 70mm presentations I did attend were premier engagement blow-ups from 35mm negatives. Is there a significant difference when the print is a 70mm blow up or was it primarily the multi-track audio advantages that elevated those engagements?
Thanks also for the info on Mad World. I agree with you 100% on honoring the filmmakers written instructions. It pains me to know that the resources have not been made available to afford you to proceed with a proper restoration of the original full length version of MW. Is it true that elements had been found that were allowed to decompose beyond salvagability due to a lack of proper funding? Where are the outraged Mad World fanatics who have some muscle in tinseltown?
But… I veer off thread. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
That is sadly true, William. I’ve received several repertory prints that came directly from their “premiere” engagement in NY or LA that needed cleaning and/or repair. I’ve also been fortunate to receive a couple of brand-new prints (and newer prints that were immaculately handled). I always ship them back in the same condition, usually with a note in the can that says “Attn Projectionist – this print is new, please treat it with extra care.” But I have also had the sad experience of getting the same print back two years later with more than normal wear & tear on it.
Distributors do strike new prints from time to time on popular titles in 35mm. Like with the Film Forum and other type theatres, use the “Brand New 35mm Print” in their ads. With the sorry state of film projection, those new prints are not very new after a few poorly operated theatres that have had them. I’ve had brand new prints come in and leave in great shape, to then come back after one screening all banged up and needing repair.
The print of MW is what it is. It has not been fully color corrected, has faded dupe sections, inclusive of the main titles, and improperly placed radio calls. While it is instructive as a test print or to demonstrate the current state of the original negative, it is a starting point for a proper restoration, and should not be construed of as final release print, which I don’t believe was the intent of its creators. It was printed for a special anniversary screening, and its use should have ended there.
There were specific guidelines set up for the running of MW in November 1963. These were printed and distributed to all venues. They are the most specific projection instructions that I’ve ever found. When a filmmaker places their wishes in writing, they should be followed to the letter wherever and whenever possible, unlike the abortive screenings of MW at the Dome. Little is gained by doing things improperly.
Oh boy Robert, you better hope Larry isn’t reading here… :)
The current 70mm print of Mad World is a bastardization, using some of the elements which we turned over to the studio for safekeeping. The film is in need of a proper restoration, if not reconstruction, and the print is not recommended.
Regarding the use of 35mm prints for presentation purposes, it should be noted (this is a discussion which recently took up space on another website) that the format affords the viewer possibly 20-25% of the on-screen quality of a true 70mm print.
RAH
In 1991, I enjoyed the restored 70 MM 6 track print of Spartacus on one of the two large (40 foot wide) screens at the Worldwide Plaza, before that theater went 2nd run. It was presented fine there. I had missed it at the Ziegfeld & at the Uptown in Washington. I’d love to see it in 70 MM at the Uptown and I’m sure many people would love to see it at the Ziegfeld. I’ve not seen the Alamo. On vacation, I did see a 35 MM print of Mad World at the Castro in S.F. More 70 MM prints of classics please!
Robert Harris… that’s a sad thought, but one that I suspected was true. Still, I think we’d all gladly take solid 35mm prints with mutli track audio given a proper presentation with respect to intermission, house lights and curtain cues. I’d love to know what films do exist on viable large format prints – and would love to know that Clearview has an interest in tracking some of them down for future Classics series. I’ve never seen “It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World” on the large screen and would love to see the print that ran on the West Coast a couple of years back playing at the Ziegfeld – complete with police radio calls during intermission. Perhaps we’ll never see a complete premier-engagement version of IAMMMMW, but I’ll take the general release version in 70mm on a big screen for just once in my life.
Remember the not so long ago days when a distributor would strike a new print for a Manhattan revival? Hell they do it for the Film Forum still with 150 seats, there would be more money to be made from the Ziegfeld with 1100.
To JSA…
I love the innocence of all this in terms of what to screen.
There are no viable large format prints of either The Alamo or Spartacus to be had from distribution sources.
RAH
Bravo! Thank you Bill. Wish I could have been there with you.
To Clearview: Let’s get more TRUE 70mm films on screen! Perhaps now the bugs are worked out, and taking all the suggestions and critisisms given it would be an awesome set of shows.
JSA’s friendly rivalry challenge is a fantastic idea, and not impossible. Hey, just a few months ago classics at the Ziegfeld seemed like nothing more than a nice dream.
Last night’s “Lawrence” show played beautifully. The sync sound problem from Friday night was gone. Curtains opened and closed and house lights went on and off – all properly on cue. The worst thing that happened all night: someone’s cell phone went off twice during the near-silent Omar Sharif well sequence.
To all CT NYC colleagues:
Some of this may sound corny, but now that this Classics series is near its end, I would like to make some comments. Here at no-so sunny California (yes, it rains here from time to time), I just realized that, despite the setbacks encountered by the Ziegfeld and posted here in explicit detail, in many ways you guys had all the luck this time. While our “flagship†theaters were delighting audiences with “Underworld: Evolutionâ€, “Running Scaredâ€, the new “Pink Pantherâ€, and on and on, you guys had “Chinatownâ€, CE3K, “The Godfatherâ€, “Ben-Hurâ€, WSS, LOA and “2001â€. So, all in all, kudos to the Ziegfeld for doing this, and to all who showed up and supported the program. Not only do we all virtually love the same movies (well, I’m not too crazy about MFL, but that’s beside the point), but we all have the same high standards when it comes to proper film presentation. Hopefully the Ziegfeld will take to heart the recommendations posted by the various CT members and lessons learned during this series, and they will find their way to the next classics presentation. I for one would like to visit the Ziegfeld, the Lafayette and the Loew’s in Jersey in a not-so distant future.
For Craig and Clearview: In the spirit of “friendly†rivalry between the East and West Coast let me propose a challenge. Take note when there is a classic widescreen series at either the American Cinematheque, Cinerama Dome or at Cal State Long Beach. Schedule an “alternative†series at the same time. If we have “Cleopatraâ€, throw “Spartacus†at us. If they show “Agony and the Ecstasyâ€, proudly present “Lust for Lifeâ€. “The Great Raceâ€? No problem, here’s “Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machinesâ€. “Magnificent Seven†you say? Show off with “The Alamoâ€. “Dirty Harry†vs. “Bullittâ€. The possibilities are endless. Most important, we all win…
Lastly, I would like to pay my respects in this site to Richard Fleischer (20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Fantastic Voyage, Tora! Tora! Tora!, Soylent Green), who passed away last Saturday at the age of 89.
Regards to all
JSA