Loew's Kings Theatre

The LOEW'S KINGS in Brooklyn may see a new life as the Magic Johnson theatre chain plans a $30-million project to turn it into a 12-screen house. Theatre has been closed since 1977 and only used once in a great while as a location for film shoots. It remains untouched. Article appeared in The New York Times on 3/24/99.

The Kings was one of the five Loews Wonder Theaters (175th Street, Valencia, Pitkin, and 72nd Street were the other four). It had a small shelf balcony and a grand lobby with a curving staircase. At one time there was even a basketball court in the basement for the staff. A scene from "Sophie's Choice" was filmed in the theater but unfortunately wound up on the cutting room floor.

The 5 Loews Wonder Theaters were: 175th Street, Paradise, Jersey, Valencia and Kings. While great theaters, The Pitkin and the 72nd Street were not part of the "Wonder Theater" group.

Scaffolding currently covers the theater's facade, so i wonder if something is going on here.

The Kings Theatre opened on September 7, 1929 on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. Designed by Rapp and Rapp, the lavish auditorium seated 3,600 and featured a mammoth dome high above the audience. Extensive use of walnut paneling and carved walnut columns along with deep, rich colors and heavily gilded ornamentation created an opulent scene for theatre patrons.

I went to the Kings theatre in the 70's, while visiting an aunt in the area. I the manager was a very kind woman who showed me all over the building when she saw my interest in it. I remember the huge entrance lobby, and the inner lobby with its bronze statues and walnut panelling. The upstairs ladies lounge, and the newel posts on the staircases to the balcony were art deco in style, everything else was a gorgeous french baroque. I hope someone renovates this theatre and reopens it without destroying its integrity. It would be a real loss to Brooklyn if this one gets away.

From what I have heard, the multiplex plan has fallen through, and the Kings is still in the hands of the city.
The Kings is, in my opinion, the most beautiful theater in Brooklyn, and one of the most beautiful movie palaces anywhere.
Having grown up in Flatbush, it was also such a thrill to see the marquee all lit up at night, and the huge verticle neon LOEW'S sign, spelling out the name.
The one thing I remember in the massive auditorium, were giant baroque murals, and sinister satyr figures surrounding the exits down on either side of the stage.
I have many memories of going to see many movies there, including
"What's Up Doc"?, "2001: Space Odyssey", "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", and the lastly, "Marathon Man" in the winter of 1977, the same year it closed.
The Kings is a true treasure, and its depressing to see it dark and abandoned for so many years, but at least it still stands, and the interior remains.

I had heard that the interior is beyond being saved due to neglect and exposure to the elements(rain leaking in, etc.) Does anybody know if this is true or not?

A new roof was put on the Kings about ten or so years ago, to prevent extreme damage to the interior, and it has proven to be effective more the most part.
However, there is serious leak in the auditorium, down near stage left, which has caused considerable damage to that section.
The Kings is still able to be restored, and from what I understand, it is not a lost case.

In 1974, The Kings theatre reopened for a special show. The main feature was BLAZING SADDLES. Towards the end of the film,
the projector caught on fire... The Morton "Wonder Organ" was workable through the 1960's. It was removed from the theatre shortly before or after the theatre closed... Graduation ceremonies for New Utrecht High School was held at this theatre in 1960.

In 1995 a scene from Sleepers was filmed there, that was where Rizzo's brother was headquartered.They filmed the exterior and interior during this portion of filming.

The Loews Kings on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn was THE showplace of
Flatbush. It was like Broadway in Brooklyn. I saw many wonderful films ,mainly from the MGM library there, "Quo Vadis", "Ben Hur"
and "King of Kings" 1961 just to name a few. I miss it so much.

In the summer of 2002, a group of us from Theatre Historical Society of America was granted a visit of the interior of the Kings. It was in shocking and fragile condition, but still safe enough for us to walk around the orchestra floor and mezzanine without wearing safety gear. Despite water damage from a leaky roof (by then repaired), the theatre certainly seemed salvageable, though it would probably cost $35-50 million to restore it to anything like its original appearance. That seems highly unlikely unless someone can figure out a way to program the theatre. That area of Flatbush, Brooklyn, has been in decline for several decades now, and few people will go there at night unless they live there.

Dear Warren, having lived in Flatbush for over 40 years, I would like to correct you that in fact it has become a thriving bustling neighborhood with many new stores and business, catering to the large West Indian community which predominates. The demise of that neighborhood was a fast and disturbing one which occured right after the 1977 blackout, which wiped out many theaters, and many business'.
About ten or so years ago, the neighborhood began a gradual turn around, and many new business' began to open , including many National chain stores. Now, it is once again very busy.
The Kings would be IDEAL an entertainment center catering to the community, and, for that matter, everyone else, especially with the huge parking lot of Sears just behind it.
But, like you mentioned, it's a matter of money and investors. I guess we can only be hopefull!
Best Regards
Best Regards

Rubi, I hope that you're right. But it will require someone with great vision and showmanship to make it work.

I believe that it can. It would be a mega-project to say the least, but I just hate that such a beautiful and grand theater with potential, just sits dormant for so long.
I dont know if youre familiar with San Francisco, but alot of the theaters there have been restored, I wish they would do the same here. Do you know the Bay ara of SF ?
ciao.

San Francisco is a small town in comparison to New York City and its five boroughs. SF's largest and most magnificent movie palace, the Fox (designed by Thomas Lamb) was demolished decades ago. The smaller Loew's Warfield was eventually converted to rock concerts and I think still presents them. One or two other large theatres have been converted to "legit" plays. But SF never had that many theatres to start with, so they are more likely to be "saved" than in the NYC area, which probably had twenty times as many...Hasn't there been talk of restoring the Brooklyn Paramount when LIU moves to new premises? That would probably make more sense than reviving the Kings because the Paramount is in downtown Brooklyn and easier to reach by public transportation from all over the borough as well as from Manhattan and Queens.

I was on a theatre conclave in NYC in 2002. I felt that Loews Kings even in its current condition was the most magnificient treasure on our tour. It took my breath away to see such a beautiful theatre. All the great Times Square movie palaces are now gone and I hope both the Paramount and the Kings can be saved. My hope is the City of New York would spend enough money to keep the theatre stablized until there are the funds to restore Loews Kings one of the Loews Wonder Theatres. Manhattan due to broadway has restored many of it legit houses but I have yet to see the city Restore one of there movie palaces the way other cities have. Radio City Music Hall was restored by a private company and is a unique venue.brucec

Warren this is major news for historic preservationists. I imagine though that Brooklyn Collge will want to sell the land and make a nice chunk of money for itself. A condo high-rise will do very nicely there. I guess Brooklyn historical societies should take note or this will diappear before you can blink. But how much is left of the theater?

As I understand it, much of the auditorium of the Brooklyn Paramount still exists, though some of it is beneath the floor of the top portion that was sectioned off for a basketball court. Most of the lobby areas, including staircases and the mezzanine promenade, are also still there and occupied by a cafeteria and offices.

And as I understand it, the gymnasium for LIU is the auditorium for the former Brooklyn Paramount, and that is, I imagine, unlikely to change.
As far as the Kings...
its for me very interesting that it has stayed intact as a building for so long, as opposed to other movie palaces which have either been demolished or turned into stores, etc.
I am forever hoping, that the grand Kings will be restored.

Could be good news for the Kings: The New York Times recently did an article on the Ditmas/Flatbush area in their "If You're Thinking of Living In" series. Many people priced out of Park Slope are moving south of the park, into the lovely single Victorian homes in the area. I have driven around there and it is definitely more gentrified, diverse and safe than it was about 5 years ago when I lived nearby. Would be fantastic if the theater followed in the footsteps of the Loews Jersey, and became a focal point for the community.

It would be a gift to Brooklyn to re-open this wonderful movie palace. A group should be formed such as the friends of the Loews in Jersey City, who are doing miracles in their restoration, to take over the Kings and revive it. The rebirth of this palace would be a true cultural gift for current and future generations. Who currently owns this theater?

I believe that it's currently owned by The City of New York, which has been trying to find a buyer for some years now. Sure, it would be wonderful to re-open the Kings as a gift to Brooklyn, but who's going to put up the $50 million or upwards that would be required to do so?

$50 million is a small estimate for the extensive work needed to fix this wonderful 2-1/2 acres of seats in a six story high auditorium. The 4-story-high draperies that once made the looming walls look less foreboding would require the building of an assembly barn for this scale of work, since the old drapery houses that could do such work are long gone, and those few existing today do not have the perspective, experience, or talent to reproduce such monumental work, and if they could, it would cost at least $5,000,000 for just the draperies alone! (Craftspeople today will not work for the 25 cents per hour that they did in the Twenties!) And even if you could find someone willing to risk about $75 to 100 million on this space, where would the parking for the thousands attending come from?? (Americans are not in the habit of walking, even from a bus stop on the corner!) Perhaps there is available land adjacent that could be purchased, and perhaps the city would allow a parking structure to be built there, but that would add considerably to the cost. Reportedly, the electric company will not even turn on the power until someone pays the big back bills of the former operator, and the problems mount up from there. Yes, the KINGS was a most glorious movie palace, but unless TV and videos somehow disappear tomorrow, there is not likely to be found anywhere an audience large enough and CONSISTANT enough to support the theatre, which would be taxed again just as soon as a private party got ownership from the city. We must face the fact that the only reason it still stands today is that the city doesn't want to spend upwards of $10 million to have it demolished, though they may have to do that if it becomes a refuge for undesirables in deteriorating conditions, as it inevitably will with time.

Will the equally wonderful BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT become available in a condition that enables it to be restored? I fervently hope so, but many of the same problems confront that situation as confront the KINGS. Where will the THOUSANDS of people come from to support the place? It is tax free now, but it is highly unlikely that it will remain so under new conditions! And taxes are just one of the expenses such huge facilities face, since just to pay for the utilities for a year would bankrupt the average business. (For example, few movie palaces had any insulation in the walls and ceilings to contain heat, so heating costs would be astronomical). The only real hope is for a 'sugar daddy' such as Donald Trump who presumably wouldn't care if he lost millions each year, since he would be so in love with the place that he would keep it just for nostalgia and as a public monument to a day and age when people cared about such things and would support them with their hard-earned money. Now the people spend for rock spectacles and sporting events, not theatres, and even the much smaller, and therefore much more efficient theatres are in a financial bind as our culture degenerates, and people no longer support the arts in sufficient numbers to maintain them in any large scale.

For those of you in love with the KINGS, there was a documentary released in 1979 called "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" as a photographic tour of the KINGS, and it may be possible to find it in some library. Through such, it may be possible to relive some of those days of lost glory, but don't hold your breath about reviving any such behemoths in our crass, and expensive, day and age. Unlike most cities, New York already has an abundance of theatres, and it is highly unlikely that the tax payers there will vote to pay to maintain another one.

P.S. The KINGS is one of my favorite theatres, simply from having seen it in photos and the documentary, so I am not being negative, simply realistic, sad to say. Oh to have a 'time machine' to be able to travel back to those days of architectural majesty!

By location alone, a restored Brooklyn Paramount stands a better chance of survival then a restored Kings. Downtown is on an upswing, with talks of moving a pro basketball team there. Flatbush would be a harder sell. Dont get me wrong, I was in the Kings a few times as a kid, my aunt lived there before she married my uncle. As a kid I remember gasping as I walked in the door. It is a sad statement about NY but we tear down everything. You mentioned we have a lot of theatres but we have more Zeigfelds then we do Roxys.

Perhaps they could put the Kings on rollers and move it to some other part of the USA that has no spectacular theatres and would appreciate it more, such as Nome, Alaska.

On Wednesdays, in my high school days at Erasmus Hall, on lunch breaks of 40 minutes I would walk down Flatbush Ave. South and check out the openings at Brandt's Astor, Fox-Eastern's Albemarle, Loew's Kings and Century' Rialto at Cortelyou Road. I'd crossed the street
and return checking all the fronts of the marquees ending up at the RKO Kenmore. All except the Kings and Rialto, still had 8"x10" stills and one sheet display cases. Lunches varied from Chock Full O'Nuts, Woolworth's, the Jewish Deli accross the street from the Kings, and Jahn's. (However, never at Garfield's. The Granada where I worked from 1970-75 I saw on the way to school and home. I went to all the theatres from 1967-1975. I never thought they would all be gone. Loew's Kings and Century's Rialto in 1977, the Astor in 1978, the Granada in 1983, the Albemarle in 1986 and the Kenmore in 1999.
At least the Jehovah's Witness' have taken very good care of the Albemarle. The Rialto must look the same way as far as the inside goes and the Kings just sits there. Three out of six is not bad. The Granada is a Rite-Aid, the Astor is a dollar store and the poor Kenmore was totally gutted including the restored lobby so that it can't be used as a theatre, Onex (LoewsCineplex) saw to that.

The introductory to this theatre is seriously need in a revamp. Why is there "no description available?" The Kings is one of the most famous movie palaces ever built. I'm sure that many of us could provide one. Why is the chain "unknown" when it first opened as Loew's Kings and remained for most of its existence? And why is the function described as "Performing Arts?" When the Kings first opened in 1929, it presented movies and vaudeville, but soon switched to movies only for the rest of its life. Perhaps there was once a plan to turn it into a performing arts center, but that never happened.

It was Loews to the day it closed.

Loews Kings opened on Friday September 6, 1928. It was built on the site of a seasonal outdoor movie park and the Flatbush BRT trolley depot and storage yard dating back to the 1890's.

The site became available when a new carbarn and yards were opened, located at Avenue N and Utica Avenue in Flatlands. The Marcus Loew organization was seeking to expand his theater circuit and the Kings was to be one of the new "Wonder" theaters in the NYC metropolitan area.

After the Kings was built,the Cortelyou Road trolley, which began its run at the old depot,had to make a switchback on Flatbush Avenue to run south,
turning west onto Cortelyou











Road at the Century Rialto Theter and proceeding to Gravesend Avenue and then north to Church Avenue near the Beverly Theater.

The Kings feature vaudville with live orchestra, a large organ (Morton if I recall correctly) and silent movies. It was the number one Flatbush theater and was jammed with long lines of patrons waiting for seats in the vast lobby with brass railings and velvet ropes channeling the waiting throngs into multiple lanes.

In 1930 the Cortelyou trolleys were replaced by new electric trolley buses and added further glamour to the area which was well served by public transit. Despite this the patronage started dropping off as the Great Depression began.

In the eary '30's the theater had been showing talkies for a few years and vaudville was dropped in favor of a straight movie policy.In 1935 double features became standard. Throughout the 30's, Erasmus Hall High School, located up Flatbush Avenue next to the Astor Theater, held its graduations in the theater on Saturday mornings. The organ was prominently featured in the ceremonies with one of the music teachers ( can no longer recall his name) performing in a quite grand manner.

The orchestra was quite large, being very long and dived half way down to the stage by a transverse asile. The balcony was very small and on the whole the layout of the auditorium was similar the Brooklyn Paramount.

Attendance picked up in the late 30's and boomed during WW2. Around 1947 the marquee and vertical were updated spoiling the exterior harmony with a garish if spectacular look. The vertical was huge and had a brillant neon effect changing from gold to silver and impossible to miss from far up the avenue.

Patronage began declining slightly in 1951 but was still good in 1953 after which a downward slide began. I was in the orchestra on a Wednesday afternoon in 1957 seated by the center aisle at the east side in the first row to the rear of transverse asile waiting for the show to start; I looked around and saw only two other people in the huge house. I sensed that things had really changed and wondered how long would the theater last. Shortly, four men came down the asile wearing suits, one the manager. I could hear them speaking as they approached me. They stopped at the asiles intersection. One man said to the manager that the theater was clean but the beauty was somewhat faded. The manager said it hadn't had a coat of paint in 29 years. Another said that it was too bad but don't expect it. Apparantly this group was a corporate survry team checking out the house.

At this time there was still a newsreel but that soon stopped.

Loews Kings opened on Friday September 6, 1928. It was built on the site of a seasonal outdoor movie park and the Flatbush BRT trolley depot and storage yard dating back to the 1890's.

The site became available when a new carbarn and yards were opened located at Avenue N and Utica Avenue in Flatlands. The Marcus Loew organization was seeking to expand its theater circuit and the Kings was to be one of the new "Wonder" theaters in the NYC metropolitan area.

After the Kings was built,the Cortelyou Road trolley which began its run at the old depot, had to make a switchback on Flatbush Avenue to run south, turning west onto Cortelyou Road at the Century Rialto Theter and proceeding to Gravesend Avenue and then north to Church Avenue near the Beverly Theater.

The Kings feature vaudville with live orchestra, a large organ (Morton if I recall correctly) and silent movies. It was the number one Flatbush theater and was jammed with long lines of patrons waiting for seats in the vast lobby with brass railings and velvet ropes channeling the waiting throngs into multiple lanes.

In 1930 the Cortelyou trolleys were replaced by new electric trolley buses and added further glamour to the area which was well served by public transit. Despite this the patronage started dropping off as the Great Depression began.

In the eary '30's the theater had been showing talkies for a few years and vaudville was dropped in favor of a straight movie policy.In 1935 double features became standard.

Throughout the 30's, Erasmus Hall High School, located up Flatbush Avenue next to the Astor Theater, held its graduations in the theater on Saturday mornings. The organ was prominently featured in the ceremonies with one of the music teachers ( can no longer recall his name) performing in a quite grand manner.

The orchestra was quite large, being very long and dived half way down to the stage by a transverse asile. The balcony was very small and on the whole the layout of the auditorium was similar the Brooklyn Paramount.

Attendance picked up in the late 30's and boomed during WW2. Around 1947 the marquee and vertical were updated spoiling the exterior harmony with a garish if spectacular look. The vertical was huge and had a brillant neon effect changing from gold to silver and impossible to miss from far up the avenue.

Patronage began declining slightly in 1951 but was still good in 1953 after which a downward slide began. I was in the orchestra on a Wednesday afternoon in 1957 seated by the center aisle at the east side in the first row to the rear of transverse asile waiting for the show to start; I looked around and saw only two other people in the huge house. I sensed that things had really changed and wondered how long would the theater last. Shortly, four men came down the asile wearing suits, one the manager. I could hear them speaking as they approached me. They stopped at the asiles intersection. One man said to the manager that the theater was clean but the beauty was somewhat faded. The manager said it hadn't had a coat of paint in 29 years. Another said that it was too bad but don't expect it. Apparantly this group was a corporate survry team checking out the house.

At this time there was still a newsreel but that soon stopped.

Loew's Kings first opened in 1929, not 1928.

The decline of the Kings began in the late 1940s, when it was reduced to playing day-and-date with most of the other Loew's houses in Brooklyn, as well as with theatres of rival circuits. Prior to that, the Kings and Loew's Pitkin had shown their programs a week ahead of the rest of the pack except for Loew's Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn. In fact, when they first opened in 1929, the Kings and Pitkin played day-and-date with the Met, but that soon proved unworkable because of the unique product "split" in downtown Brooklyn between the Met, Paramount, Fox, Albee, and Strand.

Warren,
What does the term "day-and-date" mean ?

Loew's Kings opened on September 7, 1929, not September 6, 1928.

"Day-and-date" was an exhibitors' term for theatres showing the same programs at the same time and for the same number of days or weeks.

Listing should be changed to Loew's Kings

The apostrophe should come after Loew and before the "s", as Loew's. The theatre closed before the company changed its name to the illiterate "Loews."

There was a documentary made about this theater about 20 years ago. Does anybody know the name of this film or better yet how I can obtain a copy? I know that the organ still rose up on it's seperate lift for the film, however I do not remember if it was playable.

The documentary you are referring to was called: MEMOIRS OF A MOVIE PALACE by Christian Blackwood Productions then of New York City in 1980. The VHS tape was in limited production and a copy 'should' be at the Library of Congress as part of its copyright. I know that the Theatre Historical Soc. of America (http://www.HistoricTheatres.org )has a copy, but whether or not they would be willing to copy it for you, I do not know. In July, after they return from their Conclave in Kansas City, inquire of their Ex. Dir. at the address on their front page. A Google search turned up places selling the original 3x4-foot poster advertising the video, but not the video itself. Blackwood Productions does not appear in a Google search, nor do recent titles by Christian Blackwood, whom I met as a young men here in Milwaukee back in April of 1980 when he was attending the "Symposium on the American Movie Palace" then held at the Univ. of Wis. at Milwaukee. If you find a source of the video, please let us know here! No doubt there are many people who would like to get a copy, including me, Jim Rankin at jimor@lycos.com

I don't know how to use the "add a link" feature, but if you type http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php you will wind up on a page (in french) that has some photos of the Kings interior as it looked in 2001. Don't click on the english version of the page. I did it and, for some reason, could no longer find the photos.

Okay, I just found out that it adds the link automatically when you type it in, so just go ahead and click on it. Enjoy!

Check with your local libraries regarding the "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" documentary, one of the branches here in New York City has it for loan and I was able to borrow it and watch it. It's really is quite an experience to see this video. I do hope the NYC Economic Development Corp. is finally able to do something with this former Loew's Movie Palace, unfortunately it will cost millions of dollars to restore it to its original splendor.

A photo of the exterior of the Loew's Kings circa 1960-61 can be seen on this page.

I believe that Christian Blackwood is now deceased. One of his last works was a feature documentary about Zarah Leander, the Swedish actress-singer who became the #1 movie star in Germany during the Nazi era.

Interesting article about revival plans for Kings. http://www.brooklynskyline.com/news_article_print.asp?na=390

The article was published over a year ago, and as far as I know, nothing positive has happened since about saving the Kings.

Does anyone know what happened to the oringinal theatre organ that was once in the Loew's Kings? I know the Jersey's went to California and they are replacing it with the one fron the Paradise. Also do the 175th St. and Valencia still have there Wonder Organs?

Theatrefan....The following excerpt from the American Theater Organ Society Web Journal dated April 9, 2003 will explain the location of the 5 Wonder Mortons...."

Only one of the five Wonder Mortons, originally installed in the greater New York area remains in its original location at Loew's United Palace Theatre, 175th Street and Broadway in Manhattan. The one from Loew's Jersey Theatre in Jersey City is now in the Santa Barbara Arlington Theatre. The Morton from Loew's Paradise Theatre in the Bronx is being installed in Loew's Jersey Theatre (where the original home of the Arlington organ). The Morton in Loew's Kings Theatre in Brooklyn was broken up for parts but its restored console is now part of Paul Vandermolen's residence organ near Chicago. Lastly, the organ from Loew's Valencia in Jamaica, Queens is going to be installed in the Balboa Theatre in San Diego".

Thanks ErwinM.

I guess part of the reason the 175th Street still had the original one is because Rev Ike bought the theatre from Loew's in the late 60's. They started ripping out all the organs in the early 70's. I could have sworn I saw an organ in the Valencia too, maybe I am confusing it with another theatre turned church.

I saw the documentary on the Kings and at the very start there is a gentleman playing a theatre organ, I wonder if that was the oringinal Kings organ. It sounded great!

75 years ago, the Wonder Theaters were built and became prime showcases for all the great MGM product over the next 3 decades. The only Wonder Theater showing film today is Loew's Jersey but, sadly, they are not playing any MGM product in their 75th anniversary programming.

However, the beautifully restored Lafayette Theater in Suffern, New York salutes the Loew's Wonder Theaters by presenting a newly restored 35mm print of one of MGM's greatest musicals, "Meet Me in St. Louis." It will be shown this Saturday, September 25 as part of their weekly Big Screen Classics series. They will also present a vintage MGM short, and will play live music on their magnificent Wurlitzer organ.

For more information, visit their website at www.bigscreenclassics.com

The King's is never mentioned anymore and every day it seems less likey it will be saved, but you never know. Does anyone know the last time it was inspected and how bad the damage is?

I visited the interior in the summer of 2002 and found the damage to be HORRENDOUS. Two years have passed and I'm not aware of any work being done to save the theatre, so the damage could be even worse by now. Estimates have been given that it would probably cost at least $35 million to just get the Kings operating again, and $85-$100 million for a full restoration.

Warren
Was it all water damage or are vandals getting in? What a waste we let these treasures sit empty and then spend millions to make them look like they did before. I remember when that documentry was done the place was still intact.

Here is a 2001 view of the exterior of the King's.

I suspect that, ultimately, if the threat of the demolition of the Loew's Kings should arise (it isn't landmarked, is it?), then we'll probably see a group akin to those who've, as best they can, renovate and restore the Loew's Jersey, take charge of getting the Kings up and running again. Until that day, it'll probably continue lying in disrepair and breaking several hearts in the process.

I should have written 'renovated' and 'restored'; apologies for my typos...

Wow the vertical is still there and could so easily be repaired if the $$ ever became available.

The vertical is no longer on the building, it was removed last year and some loose terra cotta has been re-inforced. The Kings has been closed for 27 years and it's current condition is not as "HORRENDOUS" as warren states. True there is water damage in the auditorium in about 40% of this space. The stage skylight has let the outside elements destroy the stage area, but it doesn't have a eight foot hole in it like the Westbury of Long Island which was open all along with a broken skylight. The lobby areas are missing fixtures and is not as weathered as the auditorium. Let's remember that the building was closed and walked away from. If the city had boarded and secured the location, this would have never happened. Yes it would have some damage but not as much would have occured. The treasures of the Loew's Kings were not stolen by homeless people but like many believe, but by the caretakers including the Flatbush Developement people who had the keys to the building.

This theater, as well as several other Loew's theaters, can be seen in very nice color footage on the new DVD release of Jerry Lewis' "The Bellboy". Lewis is seen touring Loew's theaters in the area and making personal appearances trumpeting the release and he had someone document the event. No auditoriums are shown but there are very nice marquee shots. As a side note, the second feature at each location was "Tarzan the Magnificent."

Jiffy, I transferred that footage to video when I worked for Jerry Lewis. It was taken from the 35mm color camera negative, and the quality was outstanding. The original reel was about ten minutes. How much did they use on the DVD?

Lewis toured the Loew's New York circuit for THE BELLBOY, appearing at just about every large Loew's theater in the New York area. There was great color footage of the Paradise, Pitkin, King's, Oriental, and many others.

He did a similar tour of the New York area RKO theaters in 1961 for THE LADIES' MAN. However, that film footage was 16mm black and white.

Bob, you did a great job because the footage does not look it's age. Has it really been 44 years? I will guess approx 4 minutes were used but hard to tell because I kept freeze framing it. I could tell it was edited as it faded to black at the end. The theaters that can be seen are the Kings, Premier and 46th St. I wonder if the "Ladies' Man" footage is on that disc of that film?

Interestingly, "The Bellboy" itself was black and white. Then he tours for a color film and the tour is in black and white.

Bob,
The footage on the DVD clocks in at 1 minute 33 seconds. I told you about that freeze frame!

Does anyone know of any bitmapable (Is that a word?) images of the Loews Kings in its heyday?

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~angell/thsa/archive.html is the URL for the THSA archieve. It holds the Loews, Inc. collection of photographs. They can supply you at a price prints of any Loews house from various periods pre dating the 1960's.

I for one would have no problem visiting Flatbush. I lived through the 80's in this city and it never kept me from going to the theater on Times Square. Those were the days when shootings and muggings were frequent. One had to walk around clusters of prostitutes, pimps and other unsavory individuals back then. Yet people kept visiting and Times Square is alive and well today.

While watching last night's Yankees-Red Sox ALCS Game Six, I saw the new spot for the Nissan Altima, which features a brief exterior glimpse of the shuttered Olympic Theatre in downtown LA, and had a thought: isn't it ironic how, in current advertisements, films, and television programs, it's the old single-screen houses and movie palaces - the most-endangered of movie theatres - which are used far more often as a shooting location than the modern-day multi- and mega-plexes?

It is ironic indeed, considering how they were dismissed years ago as old, musty, and outmoded, yet today the movie palaces that remain are often the most imaginative and artistic structures remaining in our cities. The irony is that we seek to preserve on film what we so seldom seek to preserve in life as living art works as well as memorials to our past. Of course, it is, as always, a matter of money and keeping something alive today that was intended to have thousands pay to enter it each day, is a Herculean task with few having the deep pockets needed to do the job. In the new book "Cinema Treasures" the authors make the observation that using such palaces as the LOS ANGELES has become a cottage industry for many such, and is often all that stands between them and the wrecking ball. A few multiplexes, such as the COLUSUS in Toronto are so large and elaborate as to almost be movie settings themselves, but such multiplexes are in the minority, and we are more and more left to notice the painful contrast between the opulent palaces of yesteryear and the spare and uninspired screening rooms of today.

In many ways, the art of movie exhibition has come full circle. Architecturally, we're back to the tiny shoebox style nickelodeons.

I also saw that commercial. Recently many music videos are also using the interior of these old gems too.
ANd of course the exteriors are used in countless films and shows as a backdrop. There is much more substance in an old theater either in shambles or in good condtion depending on what look or feel to the scene they are looking for, than a multiplex.

As for the Kings, what is the current condition? Any update or photos available of it currently?

And to comment on someone's comment above from March, why is there no description for this theater? How do we edit that part. This theater deserves a description in it's opening paragraph.

A previous comment mentioned the present day photos of the KINGS as taken and posted by this French member of the Theatre Historical Soc.'s tour last year: http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php and part of the site is also in English, though the photos speak the international language.

AS to why there is no description. That is probably because CT staffer William Gabel, who originally entered the theatre into their data base, did not submit a description/history at that time. Perhaps it was not a house that he was personally familiar with; perhaps he had no adequate resources available from which to bring together a description of merit; or perhaps he did not have sufficiently recent information to round out an article that would reflect the venue today as opposed to only yesterday. In any case, writing a complete and accurate description is not as easy as it appears in that the writer must strike a balance between a tract and a monograph. While CT does allow "unlimited" text in that area, one must still have a balance of information available, a sufficient knowledge of the genre to put the location in perspective, and current information to make the article timely and valuable to those wanting to know status and the possibility of a tour. While I love the works of Rapp & Rapp and especially the KINGS (one of my 'Favorites'), I do not live in NYC and have never been in the KINGS, and while photos of it do make me want to know more and to appreciate what was, they are not enough with which to write a decent article, since this grandiose palace deserves much, much more than a mere verbal sketch.
Will CT accept a submitted Description/History at this point? You will have to get their reaction as their time permits. (You cannot use the Add-A-Theatre form, due to the fact that the theatre already exists here.)

Hello;
I read the afformentioned article in the Brooklyn Skyline. This Long Islander who originally hailed from Brooklyn would like to know how to get in touch with the group that plans to restore/renovate the Loew's Kings. Maybe concerts and legitimate theater can be presented there. I also remember when people pronounced it Low-wheeze. However, I am a returning college student and theater major so maybe I can help somehow. I am serious though I like to put some humor in what I write for the internet. I pronounced it Low-wheeze when I was.

As far as I know, there is no present group planning to restore/renovate the Kings. The property is owned by the City of New York, which has been trying to find someone to take it over, so far without success, probably due to the huge financial costs involved.

As it turns out I am looking for that Friends of the Kings Organization from that posting by Gena2. Does anyone know how to get in touch with them.

It makes me sad every time I drive or walk by the Kings. I can
still see the beautifully lit marquee with the moving white lights,and of course the mesmerizing LOEW'S sign which would spell
out each letter in dazzling neon.
Does anybody know anything as to what is happening?

I would love to be involved with a group to save this like the group did for the Loews Jersey City.

According to the article mentioned above a person named Bruce Friedman, who has a cable access show in Brooklyn wants to do so. I sent an E-Mail to the channel, and maybe I will receive a reply.

I was never to the Loew's Jersey, I live on Long Island. Did anyone ever hear about the Patchogue Theater for the Performing Arts. It's smaller than the Kings, but it's a vaudeville house that was built in the 1920s, and holds concerts. I once ushered there until they decided to let me go. I should have some idea what they can do with these old houses.

If a preservation group is started please keep us posted. I would love to make a contribution and I am sure that others would as well.
Remember that New York City has a great deal of resources that just need to be tapped into. If this is a commercial infill site, adjacent retail space can be used to generate income and the buisness would get tax incentives. I am sure that with good marketing the people of NYC would love to support this palacial structure. This is the last of the five wonder theaters that is not being developed into some type of venue. Such an edifice should be preserved, especially with the demise of American architecture these days.
Dont let them trample on the divine!

During planning and construction, the theatre was known as Loew's Tilden, presumably to designate its proximity to Tilden Avenue, named in honor of politician and public benefactor Samuel J. Tilden. The name was changed to Kings only a few months before opening.

If anyone's interested, there is a print of "Memoirs of a Movie Palace", a pictorial history, on film, of the Loew's Kings, currently up on ebay. It is auction number 6338606957.

Could we please add an introduction to one of the most important of all NY theatres

Robert, I don't know too much about this theater otherwise i would do it, but maybe if you write a little intro for it, and email to cinematreasures and they could put it in the intro section.

Hi guys. I am not from New York, but need to answer a trivia question about the Lowes Kings Theatre. Does anyone know which mega star once ushered there. Was it Ben Stiller (probably to young), Robert DeNiro or Barbara Streisand

Bill:
The answer is Barbara Streisand.

It's Barbra, a combination of bar and bra, not Barbara.

Hello Again;
I decided to keep you all updated on the search for the guy who wants to restore the King's. He called me, but my mother got the message. I left a message with him, and hopefully he will return it.

Barbra is not the only combinations of bars and bras I have seen...
Uh oh...back to the movies. Hey, we got to have some fun here too...

It's a shame that this once beautiful theatre is now falling apart.

RobertR et al, I have submitted a description for this most magnificent 'Wonder' theatre with the help of THSA documents and David Naylor's books. Also attached a personal photo taken in the 1990's, can't believe it hasn't been done before now.

Come on guys, lets do something about the formation of a 'friends' group to restore the Kings and halt the decline of this truly unique treasure.

I have to applaud Mr. Faulkner who is working from London, England to advocate an American theatre that too few of us prize. Yes, we have a great many lavish movie palaces remaining, and when the day come that CT will once again accept photos, we will no doubt see the reason that so many more deserve preservation, but for now it seems that the truly BIG projects such as the KINGS or the UPTOWN in Chicago are going to fade away until the point come that taxpayers must pay the millions it will take to clear the eventually dangerous crumbling buildings from any access to vagrants and children who find such hulks irresistible. There is another fabulous Rapp & Rapp theatre sitting in Milwaukee, dark and moldering and it too deserves restoration and reuse. But where will all the money come from? These are financially tight times with wars to pay for and tragic social causes of higher priority. Some 'angels' have come along for some theatres, such as the STANFORD in Palo Alto, Calif., and the PABST in Milwaukee, but such 'sugar daddies' are rare and getting rarer. Local publicity groups can sometimes help, but one should not break his own heart by deluding himself that an outside group with no real funds can do more than talk. After all, Proposition L to save the theatres of San Francisco, was just defeated at the polls amid speculation rife with doubt as to accountability --and that initiative did not involve any increase in taxes! (http://www.noonl.com/) What hope is there for the KINGS if one would suggest it become a public facility to be restored by, adapted by, and operated by public taxes? As the old saying goes: 'Wishing isn't getting.' Mr. Faulkner is to be admired, but will any locals with dollars step forward to make it a privately-funded reality? We can only hope.

Does anyone know the steps the friends of Loews in Jersey City took?

The following is a link to the Friends of the Loews website: http://www.loewsjersey.org/ A telephone number as well as information on the aquisition and restoration of the theatre are provided.

Would Streisand like to spearhead a campaign to save this important piece of Brooklyn history? First some money from other Hollywood Brooklynites to make it usable and then a couple of concerts to support a full scale restoration. I understand she has not retired from charitable concerts. Maybe a parade down Flatbush as well for the hometown girl made good.

Vincent, thats not such a strange idea and in fact it could be a stepping stone toward restoration of this jewel.

One of the reasons I think this venue is so neglected is that because of its size and location it has been unseen for nearly 30 years. The locals can't be passionate about something they have been told is fabulous unless they can see it for themselves.Also to see what it was in the past and can be again via photgraphs of they heyday against what it is now. Viewing it in a poor state can also be a powerful incentive to do something urgently. If there is no interest after exposing the community and local investors to something great in their midst, then at least the 'Friends' gave it a chance and failed honorably.

Perhaps Miss Streisand is 'just the ticket' to get the ball rolling??!!

Sorry Guys, but Miss Streisand has been contacted and, last I heard, she didn't return the call. They have only a committee started and not the actual restoration.

In my opinion, the area this theater is located (Flatbush) is just at the beginning of a major regentrification (sorry if I didn't spell that right...). Anyway, it's a prime area that is being discovered by New Yorkers who cannot affort Manhattan. In ten years time, it's going to be all new again. If anyone is going to start a restoration of the Kings, they'd better do it quick. I'm telling you, this area is going to be HOT, HOT, HOT. I lived in Brooklyn in the early 90's. Park Slope was established as a nice area by then. But I've been back recently and I'm shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.

CConnolly is right. Pretty soon a major developer will want it for a condo building. Gustave, do we know if she got the message? With so little she can do so much.

Quote:
and I'm shocked at how many areas that were once really nasty and slummy are beautiful now. Flatbush is next.

You are quite correct. Even Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant are currently undergoing gentrification. East New York is also no half as bad as it used to be. With even Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, and ENY on the way up, it's a given that Flatbush will do nothing but improve.

Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.

East NY...not half bad? Oye. That's incredible. I cannot imagine East NY being livable but the way the city is rapidly changing, one never knows. Bed-Stuy...ABSOLUTELY! Block after block of those great old brownstones.

But Flatbush is very special because it has a mix of brownstones and some of the most incredbile, beautiful and astonishing homes in the NY area. Just ride up Flatbush Ave and hang a left or right near the Kings. Your jaw will drop when you get a load of those stately Victorians. I used to spend hours driving around those neighborhoods.

New York Magazine already ran an article about the neighborhood and how couples from Manhattan are snatching up these homes and turning them back into single family dwellings. Think about it: you have a HUGE beautiful home within minutes of Manhattan.

As for the Kings, someone has to get in there and protect it. How does one get Landmark status for something like this?

As for Streisand...are you kidding me? There's no WAY that she's going to schlep from her protective LA environment to come all the way to Brooklyn to protect the Kings. I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes and like with midtown Manhattan everything that made it distinctly New York and worthwhile will be destroyed.

Why do you say that? If you take Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, much of the neighborhood was already burnt to the ground or abandoned. Many of the old buildings still remaining, are now being refurbished.
To keep it on topic, just look at the RKO Bushwick theater, while it is not a theater anymore, they did all they could to preserve at least the outside of the building, and they did a fantastic job at it. The interior was destroyed through years of neglect anyway. They could have just demolished the whole building. This is the next best thing.

The RKO Bushwick (and it's surrounding neighborhood) went from this to this because of the gentrification and rebuilding of the neighborhood. (The "this's" are clickable).

Bway: nice set of photos. Regentrification is a mixed blessing. It revitalizes some neighborhoods and makes them livable. But it also pushes out the element that makes some neighborhoods unique. A good example of this is 9th Ave in midtown Manhattan. It's still slightly gritty with a lot of non-franchise restaurants from Cuban to Vietnamese to Mom and Pop hardware stores. I find the area charming but what's going to happen in another few years? These places will be gone to be replaced by Starbucks. The second picture you show clearly demonstrates this with a McDonald's sign prominently displayed.

Regentrification is a mixed blessing.

I would give anything to have the Times Square of the 70's back. Yes it was filthy with sex shops, drug dealers and prostitutes all over the place. But so much of what made it a great New York neighborhood still existed. I loved walking around it and now I try to avoid it at every opportunity. Perhaps the highway Robert Moses wanted for Soho can now be put through midtown. Absolutely nothing would be lost. It's already all gone. Are there any of you out there who would regret the loss of the Marriott Marquis, the Virgin Megastore or Toys R Us? And then there's the car dealership also known as the Minskoff.

Your point is well taken. As a child, my parents took us to Times Square a lot in the 70's. I never really thought that it was too bad at all. Whenever I read, see (Taxi Driver) or hear anything about how lousy it was, I find it hard to relate. Ok...I was a child/pre-teen so my age didn't help. Yeah, it was gritty as HELL ( I remember the Times Square station...Whoa! What a place! But it was FUN!). But you know what? There were as many crowds back then as there are now. But now it's tourist city. The "energy" is all manufactured as opposed to it being organic or natural. That's why I like 9th Avenue a lot now. You have these great old hardware stores, shoeshines and quirky restaurants. 10th is even better.

As for Flatbush, it's still gritty and pleasant. But if you go on the other side of Prospect Park (toward Park Slope) the changes are all but complete. It's only a matter of time for it to sweep across the park into Flatbush, and it's already happening. Will the Kings have a place in the "new" Flatbush? If history tells us anything (Times Square) the Kings will not survive. That's why the time to start actively discussing saving it has to be done NOW. I used to love driving up Flatbush Ave. and seeing the old Kings and wonder what it must've been like 40, 50 or 60 years ago.

A picture of the Kings under construction, and a picture of it's "cosmetic room" can be seen at http://www2.hawaii.edu/~angell/thsa/gl-loews.html

Guys, I think you should all take the poll on Loew's Theaters that's on the site this week. THE KINGS IS TRAILING BEHIND THE LOEW'S JERSEY! By the way you are all right. I spoke again with the person who wants to restore the Kings, and they are regentrifying the area. They have a Footlocker, Blockbuster Video, and other stores, and the Sears that has been there since time and memoriam is, this former Brooklynite is glad to hear, still there. Joe Franklin joined the committee to save the Kings. So did I.

But looking at the photos on the French site of the interior today it seems in very bad shape. Is it possible to save? Is enough left to restore it? It looks as though it would have to be almost rebuilt. I hope the photos make the situation look worse than it actually is. The only photo of the interior that I know of as it was originally is from The best Remaining Seats and it was magnificent. One of the architectural glories of Brooklyn.

I know some people that did a walk through in the building a few years ago. There was so much water damage to the stage, they couldn't safely walk on it. The stage roof was wide open to the elements, and rain/snow had been pouring in for years. The place was a mess.

First of all, is there actually a committee dedicated to saving this place? If there is, how do I join? I already shared some memories of this place, and of Dorothy Panzica (God bless her) the wonderful manager of this theatre (back in the 70's) who caught me prowling around the building as a teenager and wound up giving me a grand tour, backstage and all. I'm not from Brooklyn, and live no where near it, but I'm willing to do what I can to help. I remember while I was working in Florida for a few weeks in 1999, an elderly woman walked into the clinic. While conversing with her, she mentioned she was from Brooklyn. I asked her if she was ever in the Loew's Kings. She not only had been there, but her mother took her to the opening day performance! She still had the program from the theatre's first day of operation, and brought it into the clinic to show me! Well, somebody contact me through this site and let me know what, if anything I can do to help save Loew's Kings.

If you scroll through earlier comments, you will find that the theatre is probably still saveable, but that the cost of repairs and restoration would be well upwards of $50 million. Frankly, I don't think that any "committee," no matter how well-intended, can raise that kind of money. IMHO, the Kings will continue to deteriorate until it becomes a safety menace, which will give the city the right to demolish it and sell the land for re-development.

I honestly don't know if you're right or wrong Warren, but you did say almost the same thing about the Paradise too. Anyway, can someone out there tell me how to join this committee that has been mentioned previously?

As another comment, let's remember how the Friends of the Loew's accomplished so much. They couldn't afford the contractor's estimate to get the stage and orchestra lifts working again, so they did it themselves. It was the same with the restoration of the marquee, and even the restoration of the organ. The thing to do is not concern ourselves with naysayers, but look to people who have accomplished something and emulate them. If we fail, it shouldn't be for lack of trying. I realize that the Kings is in worse shape than the Jersey ever was, but that doesn't make it impossible. So, if someone out there is organizing, please contact me.

I'll even consider moving to Brooklyn if necessary

I initiated the marquee restoration at the Jersey - and I'm afraid of heights!

If I could do that, ANYTHING is possible!

It is nice of 'Ziggy' and others to be so concerned about the grandiose KINGS to be willing to move there, and Bob Furmanek is to be praised for venturing up on a marquee to work on it when he is afraid of heights, but I am afraid, folks, that, at the risk of being called a naysayer, I must point out that some MAJOR hurdles confront anyone interested in this particular theatre. Not only is it HUGE, but it is not owned by anyone who apparently has any real interest in preserving it. I am afraid that Warren is evidently right: the city is waiting for it to either be bought by some multi-millionaire or to get to the point of rationalized demolition-- a cost they do not want to bear since it would be in the millions just for that. Look too at the fight the JERSEY had in getting the city to buy it, then getting them to have authority to restore and operate it. It does not seem that Brooklyn is any more willing to turn over real estate to a non-profit than was Jersey City. After all, if a non-profit runs a property, it seems that it will not pay taxes in future, and I hardly need remind anyone that taxes are what allow city officials to live in their fine homes. Then there is local politics. Does anyone in political power care about the KINGS? Is it the tradition there to 'grease' the palms of the local politicos to get things like this done? If so, who is wealthy enough to 'grease' enough palms?

Finally we come to the practical matters of restoration IF the 'committee' of whomever does get ownership or control. Once a building reaches the state that it is raining and snowing inside, there are then serious structural problems. No, the huge steel by which the building stands will not collapse any time soon, but lesser structure CAN collapse upon anyone without warning. For example, the plaster that makes up the walls, ceilings, and ornaments in there is NOT waterproof; it will crumble and fail as the steel mesh lath which supports it rusts and both fall, as has happened to large portions already (which is why the city is reluctant about tours = insurance liability). Sure, such plaster and lath can be repaired, but what about the roof above that is leaking and would ruin new plaster? Such roofs cannot be just re-tarred; the structure of the roof deck is far beyond that by now. Can we expect the ladies and a few men on the committee to climb upon a pitched roof some 5 floors high that is dangerous to even walk upon, to demolish the old, rotten decking and dispose of it (fees) and then to haul up there the new (heavy!) decking and professionally anchor it in place? Many professional roofers will turn down such a job due to safety and practicality concerns. Does this all mean that it cannot be saved? No. But is does mean that the city that owns it can rightly expect that any new owner/renter/operator will contract for all such dangerous and code-compliant work (electrical, HVAC, etc. etc.) and that it must and WILL be done according to legal standards. By all means, form a committee of concerned citizens and as Porter Faulkner says: "raise the consciousness" of the locals, but do not dream that un-licensed non-professionals can do all that needs to be done aside from minor interior work. Anyone that can restore a pipe organ is to be admired, but that is a far cry from having both the skills and the tools to do major structural work. Professionals will have to be found and hired, and they cost BIG BUCKS. Such a job cannot, nor should be, done on the cheap. Long live the once glorious KINGS, if an 'angel' with mega bucks can be found!

Jim is right, and the politics of the situation at the Kings is a very serious issue. I had ten years of that over at the Jersey, and it's not pretty folks!

As bad as the Jersey was (and don't forget - it was triplexed,) at least it never had holes in the roof where it was exposed to the elements. The Kings is going to need a LOT of help.

I've just posted something on the board for the Hudson Theater on W. 44th Street in NYC. I had heard about this theater and how it is incorporated into the Millenium Hotel but got a chance to look at it today. The hotel has probably the most ridiculous LACK of security I've ever seen. One can walk straight through the lobby and over to the Hudson Theater space.

What an ingenius use of the space, though. Not only is it beautifully restored but it's in amazing shape. And what's even better is that it's being USED. They were setting up a conference in the space and no one seemed to care that I was just looking around.

This could be a model for what developers COULD do, if they're willing, to a space like the Kings.

Well, let me say I admire you Jim Rankin, and I consider you a friend I haven't yet met, (by the way, thank you for the lengthy email. I will answer you, but I don't have a computer of my own, so as soon as I can spend the time at the neighbor's, I'll send you a reply worthy of the message you sent me) but you also said it wasn't possible for the Paradise to reopen, or at least that it would be extremely unlikely, to the point of not happening, yet, at last report, it is happening. So, we're all aware of how difficult it will be, thanks. Now, let's get some constructive suggestions going. I'm single, and my career is such that I can pretty much move where I want, so my offer to move to Brooklyn (if it comes to that ) is a serious one.

One of the key factors in saving the Jersey was creating public awareness of what's there. When we began doing film shows in the lobby, the exterior looked horrendous. The marquee was full of broken glass; the underside was covered with peeling paint, and the entrance was completely boarded up. People had to enter the outer lobby through a small entry door. But, once inside, the lobby astounded them. (At that time, the auditorium was divided into 3 and looked terrible!) We presented 16mm film shows in the lobby space and got people back to the theater and to Journal Square again. Many people commented on the fact that they had no idea what a magnificent showplace existed beyond that decrepit exterior. The momentum built, petitions were signed, council meetings were attended, and the theater was saved. But, I've got to be honest, it was a LOT of very, very hard work.

Something should be done to increase awareness of the Kings, but I don't know if the lobby is even usable at this point.

It's one thing to sit at a computer and type messages on how important the Kings is, etc. It's another thing to get down there and become involved. Be prepared to give up all of your free time, and (if you're lucky to gain access) to work in a dirty, cold, decaying building with no running water. And, it's going to take years to make even a little bit of progress. Ask any of the long-term volunteers at the Jersey. Also, be prepared for seedy officials and politicians who will say and do things behind your back to make themselves look better. Again, it's all happened at the Jersey.

While it may sound fun and exciting, the concept of saving and restoring a movie palace is no easy task! I wish anyone involved with Loew's Kings all the very best of luck.

Yes, public awareness is key. Hate to say it, but the way the neighborhood is now, it will be difficult to find that much support there. It would have to come (largely) from the other side of Prospsect Park, in Park Slope and those areas. I know a lot of people in that area who for years wouldn't dare to cross over into the area where the Kings is (I never thought it was that bad...).

I hate to sound like Pollyanna you guys, and I know that all the objections brought up are reasonable ones. I'm not concerned about getting dirty, I even enjoy it if I have something to show for it. I'm familiar with the need for politicians to aggrandize themselves at the expense of the public which they "serve", and also their complete willingness to stab anyone in the back. I know the Jersey had a huge advantage in two ways: 1)no hole in the roof 2)near a major transportation hub. But let's not compare to the Jersey. Let's take the Kings for what it is, a wreck, but still a salvageable one (though perhaps not much longer). The city may be willing to sell to a non-profit because, even if it's not on the tax rolls, it would eventually become an asset to the neighborhood. A quick aside to Bob Furmanek and CConolly....would you two be interested in corresponding via email? You sound like an interesting couple of people to know.

Maybe if someone from Brooklyn could get Barbra Streisand to at least send a letter of support for restoring the Kings in New York it might generate a lot of publicity for the theatre. Try and contact Neil Diamond who also went to school with Barbra. When I toured the historic theatres of New York a few years ago I was most impressed with Loew's Kings even with the water damage. I regard the Kings as my favorite NYC theatre still standing. There is a rumor that Barbra and Neil may tour together in the near future so the time maybe ripe for Back To Brooklyn reunion.Im sure Miss Streisand is bothered by people all the time to support this or that but I get the feeling she has a special place in her heart for the theatre she watched many of M-G-M films in her youth. I think if she was approached in the right way and by the right person she would lend her support to the theatre she spent many enjoyable hours in the dark.brucec

Ziggy, I'll be happy to offer any advice I can via e-mail. But, my days of volunteering and working in old theaters are far behind me!

Letters of support will accomplish a few things: good PR, and you can read them at council meetings and send them to local papers. That's about it. We had several high profile ones for Loew's Jersey (Jerry Lewis, Leonard Maltin, etc.) but they don't save the theater. It certainly wouldn't hurt Ms. Streisand to write one.

Bob F. I would love to email you. I do we exchange email addresses without giving them out to the entire CT site?

Hopefully I will be able to get in touch with the person who wants this on Tuesday. We may have some Professors from Stony Brook University, where I am a returning student, interested.

GOOD NEWS, THE ROOF WAS REPAIRED! In other words, it's no longer raining inside the theater. The building is owned by the city, who wants it restored if they can get the money. The land is owned by Sears, which has a store behind the theater. They want to change the name to the Sears Center for the Performing Arts.

Latest News from the poll, we are in second place.

Oh, my gosh. Those pics are absolutely Fab!!!
I so, hope that they fix this place up. I'll be like the first fashionably late person to make my entrance at the opening gala.
My girlfriends and I were volunteer painters with with this urban youth group that my Dad sponsored and we bought these color coordinated painting outfits that match each other (in different colors) to paint flowers and rainbows over grafitti in a Long Island elementary school playground. So since then we havent even used the outfits and I think that it is time for my friends and I to do some good deeds again. We would love to get our hands dirty.
Keep us posted and let us know when its time to roll!

I heard that Sears has just been bought by Kmart, so I'm not sure that there is that much hope for a "Sears Performing Arts Center" since Sears apparently never intended to pay for any restoration, else they would have done so by now. No wonder things haven't progressed at the KINGS: the land is owned by someone with no theatre experience, and the building is owned by the city of Brooklyn which also is not in the theatres business. Let us hope that an 'angel' can be attracted to the place soon. Let us also hope that such an 'angel' will employ professional decorators and painters such as those works displayed by www.conradschmitt.com and not amateurs who may have been responsible for the VALENCIA's recent garish decor paint.

The thought of fluorescent colors, flowers and who knows what other grafitti in a Rapp & Rapp designed house absolutely boggles the mind. Also, I can't visualize Kmart being in the theater business. They have a hard enough time competing in the retail business as it is.

It would be interesting to know how Sears became owner of the Kings' land site, if indeed that's true. Did Sears (then known as Sears & Roebuck) already own that plot when it was decided to build a theatre there? If so, it suggests that Loew's (or Paramount-Publix, which started the "Wonder Theatres" project), had to lease the land from Sears & Roebuck. However, it also seems possible that Sears bought the land after the Kings closed, anticipating that the theatre would eventually be demolished and that it could build a new store on the site.

Jim, KMart bought Sears, however, "Sears" is the name of the new consolidated company.
Warren, I would assume your last scenario is probably what happened, although that is pure specualtion on my part. It could be that they did indeed buy the property to either convert it to a store, or assuming it would be demolished, and they would build a store there.

That's nice.

That's nice.

Tomorrow I am going to speak to several professors about the Kings. I hope we can fix it. This former person from Flatbush prays it's so.

News on the poll, WE ARE NOW NECK AND NECK with the LOEW'S JERSEY

I spoke with a professor, and will speak with some students about the Kings. I will see if I can put some contact information on the site when I speak with the head, or I will send him to this chat room.

WE WON THE POLL

Some have speculated that if they could contact Barbara Streisand, they might be able to get her cooperation to some extent in revitalizing the KINGS. I append below her Agent and Recording company (as a secondary route in case the agent route fizzles). I strongly urge anyone writing her through her agent to make it a very PROFESSIONAL appeal, and NOT FOR MONEY. What you want is her Endorsement of your efforts, and perhaps ask her to share a favorite memory of her tenure there. You want to get her involved in such a way that it does NOT presume upon her time or talent. Perhaps sending her an opening day photo along with a present day photo (8x10s) will help her recall. Do NOT say that you will invite her to sing there when it is restored; she has stated that she will not appear in public much anymore. Since she is a famous feminist, it might be best if a woman approaches her via a letter with the photos enclosed. If possible, send the letter/photos in a RIGID mailer perhaps of Tyvek so that it arrives in good condition; the postal service is all automation now and heavy loads will descend upon anything put into the mail, and moisture is always a threat, which Tyvek will also repel. Sending it by CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED will at least let them know that you take it seriously, and you will have proof that her agent received it (the postal service cannot vouch for where anything goes unless you PAY to have it tracked!). Any letter should strike a balance between an appeal, and a recognition of her presence in the entertainment community and how she could lend her name if not also sponsorship. You might ask for just a personal note from her as to her thinking on the matter of bringing the KINGS back to its glory days when she was there. A **little** flattery can help, but she must not get the impression that you are fawning or want to obligate her in any way. Do NOT use Fax, as the copy that results on their side may be a cheap chemical paper that will not carry any idea of class on your part; use a good grade of paper without being too fancy. Address the envelope to her in care of her agent, and perhaps mark the envelope above the address: "THIS IS NOT FAN MAIL" else it might be sent to a fan mail service which most stars employ. BEST WISHES!

Management:
Martin Erlichman Associates Inc.
Address:
5670 Wilshire Blvd. Ste. 2400
Los Angeles, CA 90036
Phone
323.653.1555
Fax
323.653.1593

Record Co.:
Columbia Records
Address:
550 Madison Ave.
New York, NY 10022-3211
Phone
212.833.8000
Fax
212.833.5401

I will pass this information to the person in charge of the committee. It's not me by the way.

Regarding Sears Roebuck ownership of the land on which the Kings Theater stands: I believe Sears may have acquired it in the early 1950's when the area was booming and Sears needed more parking space for automobiles for their big Art Deco store on Beverly and Bedford a couple of blocks east. The store dates back to around 1934 when it replaced a Sears Roebuck catalog store in a small rustic building on the same site. Over the years they bought more property to create new parking lots around the new store. Store traffic peaked in the 1949-53 period and it is my recollection that then is when the area behind the Kings became a Sears lot with spaces right up to the brick walls. The land on which the Kings was built was once owned by the Brooklyn Rapid Transit and a few predecessor entities, probably up to 1928 when construction was planned for the theater.

A post script to my previous regarding approaching Streisand: By all means, FIRST set up a registered NOT-FOR-PROFIT 501-C3 corporation named something like "Pages of the Kings Theatre" (playing on the word 'page' which was a part of a king's court). Once you have received this from the IRS, make up a simple yet artistic letterhead with names of the principals on it as well as the name of the bank at which you have established an account with a line something like "Funds maintained at XX bank." With these measures you be better seen as legitimate and of an enduring nature, and that if she should ON HER OWN VOLITION enclose a check, she will know that it will go to a legitimate organization. Best Wishes!

Here is how to get in touch directly with the person who starting the committee to reopen the Loew's Kings. His name is Bruce Friedman, and his E-Mail is thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

PS This is not my E-Mail

By the way, Mister Friedman is the Head of Friends of the Kings (I think that's what it's called), which may be a not for profit.

By the way did you know that according to this site the Kings has more seats then these Broadway Theaters? Here's the list:

Ford Center for the Performing Arts (42nd Street); 1839
Palace (Aida); 1733
Broadway (Bombay Dreams); 1752
New Amsterdam (Lion King); 1702
Cadillac Winter Garden (Mamma Mia); 1533
Lunt Fontanne (???); 1475
Times Square [This theater is being restored]; 1056

Unbelievable ain't it?

The fact that the KINGS is much larger than any of the theatres listed above is impressive and could mean that more people could see a given performance at the same time, but, unfortunately, it also means that these seats must be continually filled in order to pay for and justify their existance. Greater capacity means greater costs. And if any of the shows want an 'intimate' atmosphere, they will not find that at the KINGS, of course. How many shows can really draw over 3,000 people for a performance without also having a huge screen suspended above the stage with images of what is going on, on the stage so that those in the rear can see the performance? The place was, after all, designed for images larger than life.

Hello Everyone, I copied the following quote from the friends of the sammerick (also known as Sam Eric 4 and Boyd theatre) website at: http://savethesameric.org/

"Very important, a feasible plan to restore and reopen the Boyd has been put forth, with Clear Channel as the intended operator for musicals and concerts. Like many other large corporations, we found that Clear Channel has its detractors, but they have a tremendous track record of restoring and programming movie palaces in other cities. We have emphasized that in return for public funding, community access to the theater should be provided with a film program, public tours, and other public benefits"

Perhaps Clearchannel could help the Loews Kings.

The Boyd is located in the heart of downtown Philadelphia. I doubt that Clear Channel would be interested in the Kings, which is in the middle of nowhere for most residents of Greater New York.

Unfortunately, there is much misinformation on this message board:
#1-The land under the Loew's Kings is not and was never owned by Sears.

#2-The theater is owned by the NYC Economic Development Corporation- which plans to issue, still another RFP as early as next month. They, along with the Brooklyn Borough President (And my group: Save The Kings) have long wanted it to reopen as a Center for the Performing Arts.

#3-Clear Channel Entertainment (Ron Delsener) went with me on a guided tour of the Kings and thought it might serve as a concert venue. Then, Clear Channel entertained talks but so far, NO help!

#4-Warren, don't worry Sears does not own the lot! [Paramount-Publix started the "Wonder Theatres", facing bankrupcty sold it to Marcus Loew. The land UNDER Sears is and has been owned by Vornado REIT and they are a major shareholder in both KMart and Sears. The 750 car parking lot (behind theater) is NOT owned by Sears, they have their own lot! EDC owns this lot and Bruce Ratner (Master Builder: Nets Arena, Atlantic Center, Metrotech, etc.) has a long term lease on parking lot for that exclusive purpose.)

Why Hasent Clear Channel looked at the Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, which once hosted incredible concerts like the Beatles and Frank Sinatra?

Does FHTS have a roof? If not, I doubt that it could be used as a concert venue on a regular basis...Also, I think that residents of the area are against it because of all the crowds and associated problems that it would bring.

Warren,
The theatre happens to be in Brooklyn NYC which makes it a great location. Long Island would be considered the middle of nowhere for most city residents. A Clearchannel representative has already toured the building and made suggestions. The middle of nowhere was obviously easier to find than you thought.

I think that the Kings' only salvation (no pun intended) will be if a church takes it over. Unfortunately, the Kings may have lost that chance when the Jehovah's Witnesses took over the nearby Albemarle Theatre and did a magnificent job of renovation. I don't know if the JWs ever considered the Kings instead, but perhaps it wasn't available at the time. I have no faith (again no pun intended) in Ron Delsener coming to the rescue of the Kings, based on the messes that he made of the Academy of Music in Manhattan and the Capitol in Westchester County. I'm surprised that he is now a "consultant" to a major company. The man has no respect for theatres as architecture.

As we had in discussion in other theater sections, churches make great "after" theater uses. While it's not ideal (what would be better than keeping it as a theater), churches are the least "damaging" to the integrity of a theater. Theaters lend themselves great to being churches, because they need a "stage" area (the altar), they need all the seats, etc, so the least destruction is done when they become churches. Many of the theater churches are well maintained; the 175th St theater in Manhattan is a showpiece, and they even use the old theater organ. The Loews Gates in Brooklyn is in great condition. The congregation originally started in the RKO Bushwick many years ago, and then moved to the Loews Gates. Just imagine if they had stayed in the RKO Bushwick, it may not be gutted today (although then we would have probably have lost the Loews Gates). The Valencia in Jamaica is very well maintained (even if painted quite gaudy on the interior - again it's better than the alternative). Even smaller theaters like the Wyckoff Theater, etc are being maintained. The Belvedere in Glendale is also in beautiful condition.
However, most of these "churches" took over the theaters right after the theaters stopped showing film (although the Belvedere was a store for a while). So these theaters did not fall into the condition the Kings is in. They were more easily restored because while most of them probably needed work, they weren't neglected for years on end. The Kings will be a monumental endevour even if they would find a church for it. There even are many church buildings that are even falling apart because the congregation can't afford to maintain them.

Since the Jehovah's Witnesses did such a remarkably good job on both the STANLEY and the ALBERMARLE, among others, it may be a good idea for the leaders of the 'Save the KINGS' committee to meet by appointment with the officials of the Witnesses (their world HQ is in Brooklyn on the East River) who may have been offered the KINGS years ago when they were looking for a site and settled upon the STANLEY in Jersey City. Likely they will readily share with you the reasons that the KINGS site --if ever offered to them-- was not then adaptable to their uses, since the STANLEY and the KINGS are close to the same size. If they did survey the KINGS, then they likely have numerous photos as well as documents concerning the place that they could show you, and thus give you a better idea of the problems they faced, even as a tax-exempt group.

This is another reason that so many churches take over theatres: they and their property are exempt from taxes, so they can undertake what would be financially very difficult for anyone else. If they can garner enough free labor volunteers, as the Witnesses do, then they can undertake even massive projects such as the KINGS with only the costs of materials their concern. Something tells me that the Witnesses are not likely to step forward about the KINGS if they already have the huge STANLEY, but it wouldn't hurt to ask them. I've heard that their numbers are rapidly growing, and it must be a difficult drive from Brooklyn and Long Island over to Jersey City for their thousands of members in that area. Perhaps if they were invited to tour the KINGS, it was decades ago when the area was in less favorable condition as to safety. Would they view it differently today?

To: Jim Rankin
From: Bruce (Save The Kings) thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
It's possible that Jehovah's Witnesses did survey the Loew's Kings before taking over the Albermale or redoing the Stanley. However, the Stanley is over 5,000 seats, while Loews
Kings was originally 3,692 but was later reduced to 3,192 for more comfortable seating. However, you're suggestion about asking JW, if they did a site survey and if they have photographs or documents is clever! Or what problems they faced even as a tax exempt organization...

If members of cinematreasures wanted to start our own tax exempt organization and answer the RFP, coming soon... then maybe, we could garner enough free labor volunteers, etc. etc. and try to Save The Kings as a Center for the Performing Arts. In some ways learning from the experience of JW and also the Loew's Jersey team.

By the way, such an idea has been suggested to me in the past by the Loew's Kings Project Mgrs of the NYC Economic Development Corporation. However, I thought that this idea was just tooo hard to put into practice. However, maybe it is possible? Especially since Borough President - Marty Markowitz very much wants to see a comeback of the Kings as a Center for the Arts!!

Theater restoration specialists have their facilities in Brooklyn and possibly, they would help to teach our volunteers, the tricks of the trade?

Bruce.

It's about time I chimed in on this discussion now. Before anyone decides to start a not for profit then they have to consult a lawyer. You have to be registered in the State of New York. I remember this from a paralegal course I took in 1991.

I also thought of the Home Depot possibly sponsoring the project because they can work with the specialists as well as show the people how to handle the repairs. Another possibility would be an engineering college.

As a major in theater, I would like to see it as a performance space. Radio City Music Hall is Successful, so the Kings can be.

Will the friends of the kings be creating a website?

How does one get to the Kings from Manhattan and can one go inside at any point during the weekend?

You can take any subway that goes to Flatbush. It takes about 20-25 minutes from Times Square. However, I don't think that you can enter the Kings unless someone representing its current guardian grants permission and takes you in. You would have to have a good reason, such as being interested in buying the theatre. It's not open to viewing by the general public, except from the outside.

A side note to any 'intrepid' folks who are confident taht they can gain entry to any place, with or without permission: Entry to any place without the owners' permission is ILLEGAL, and even if an owner discovers you there and does not prosecute for malicious trespass, you cannot KNOW what will await you once inside. There may be two or four legged creatures that will confront you, and what will be your defense or path of escape? Even if the lights do work, where are the switches located, and if you do turn them on, you have used the owners' power at their expense, which can be prosecuted as theft even if no other damage is done. And if something should fall upon you, who will know to rescue you? Be eager, but be practical; get permission and an escort from the owners!

Well how about setting up some kind of NY borough movie palace mini tour allowing a group of us some weekend day a visit to the Paramount the Kings and the Paradise? This would obviously involve a lot of planning and a fee but with a bus and the proper permits and insurance I think those of us New Yorkers who regularly visit this site would greatly appreciate a visit to some of the most beautiful buildings that still exist in the tri-state area. And who knows how much longer we will have this chance before they join the rubble of the Roxy?

If no one else steps forward, one might ask the NYC area Director of the THEATRE HISTORICAL SOC., Joe Masher, via his E-mail at: joemasher@aol.com

The owners of the paradise will not allow official tours until construction is complete. It is still a hard hat area. From what I saw last month, the interior should take no more than six to eight months for it to be safe.
I would love to tour the kings (Great idea Vincent!).
Perhaps we can wait until construction is done with at the paradise so that we can tour all five wonder theatres. We can schedule it on a weekend that Loews Jersey is presenting a film so that we can enjoy a film in an operating movie palace after the tour. If we arrive early we can get a tour of the Stanley Theatre across the street.
I dont think that we will need a bus since all theatres are accessible by mass transit.

I'm sure the nice folks at Loew's Jersey would welcome a volunteer crew with open arms! Just bring some work clothes, and they'll let you visit any area of the theater. They're very receptive to anybody that wants to do volunteer work for them.

Those amongst us with wings don't even have to rely on mass transit...The Kings, Loew's Jersey and Stanley were visited during the last Theatre Historical Society of America Conclave in NYC in 2002, but not all on the same day. Transportation was by chartered bus.

Warren

Does the Kings still have electric service? I was only in the theatre one time to see "The Way We Were" and would love to see it again.

I'm not sure if it has full electrical service or not. I think that flashlights, generators, etcetera are required in parts of the building where the wiring was destroyed during decades of neglect.

The Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Webpage may be placing a page on the site where people can help the Kings reopen. The address of the site is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu The site is already online. The author, Alan G. Wasenius, first has to check to see if he has enough webspace. He is not a Computer Major at SUNY Stony Brook, but a Theater Major. He will be checking with the head of the organization trying to ensure accuracy. He would appreciate it if any of you can tell him where there are any public domain/ fair use photographs of the Kings in its 1960s prime.

I was from Brooklyn and I think this place is in the middle of nowhere, unless you are taking the bus or driving. The nearest subway lines are several blocks awaw, either on East 16th Street or on Nostrand Avenue; no subway line runs along that part of Flatbush Avenue. So unless you're really devoted it could be a chore to get there.

I know that the Theatre Historical Soc. has a number of photos from opening day as well as later years; you would do well to ask them via their E-mail of the Ex. Director given on the bottom of their front page at: www.HistoricTheatres.org (DO NOT mention Cinema Treasures since there is some ill will at present, it appears. Don't ask me why or how; I only perceive this and could be wrong.)

For the record, Cinema Treasures harbors no "ill will" towards the Theatre Historical Society of America whatsoever and heartily suggests any researcher, historian, or enthusiast contact them for any projects, etc.

By the way, another tremendous resource is the B'hend and Kaufmann collection at the Margaret Herrick Library (part of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences) in Beverly Hills.

Saps,
I am sure that there are taxis near the subway and public busses as you mentioned. It seems ideal.

Exactly how many blocks is the theatre from the subway?

How wonderful that you have wings to fly us around Warren.
However I think that it is more interesting to travel as worldly and sophicisticated pedestrians rather than being crampped up in a tourbus like a bunch of gawking tourists. There may be wonderful suprises that will come up as we wander through the city.

Who will provide our transportation?

The Loew's Kings has been closed since 1979 and at the present time, the NYC Economic Development Corporation will allow no visitors. They will issue an RFP (Request For Proposal) very shortly. Most recently, they authorized an asbestos-lead abatement study and were most happy to learn that this was not a problem!

As far as working electric, there's enough for illumination but it could hardly be described as complete. The building has not been heated for years and it is colder inside than outside!! So it doesn't matter what time of year, it's still cold inside!

I do a weekly Cable TV show and have done several episodes about and inside the Loew's Kings. Along with interior footage, I have interviewed restoration specialists, theatrical producers, etc. I am very glad that my enthusiasm is shared by so many of you and hope that our collective effort will eventually get this place restored and reopened as a Center for the performing arts.

As far as the Loew's Paradise, I have taken an extensive tour and found the theater ready for use and that was a year ago! Unfortunately, the operator spent all that money and then lost his lease. Since then, really nothing has progressed.

My graduation from Lafayette High School in 1966 was held at the Loew's Kings which never made much sense to me being that Lafayette is in Bensonhurst. But for some reason, many high schools in Brooklyn had their graduation there. Interesting though, my wife's graduation in 1968 from Erasmus Hall High School, which is right down the street, was not held there, but rather on the school campus.

Bruce 1;
Have you had any volunteers from any Long Island Colleges yet?
Sincerely
Alan G. Wasenius

Would you all please forget I put my name there

(LOL)!Of Course we will Alan. :)

Dear Bruce 1,

what cable system and what channel does your show appear on? I would love to see your shows about the Kings. I have RCN in Manhattan, so if your show is on anything related to Time Warner I won't get it. I have been trying to get a copy of the documentary about the Kings Memoirs of a Movie Palace. Ziggy said there was one for sale on ebay but I could not find it. I own a video store in Manhattan and I would transfer the VHS of this film to DVD and loan it out free to my customers. I would also make it available to T.H.S.O.A. members as well as Cinema treasures.org members. I saw this film years ago and have been trying to get it for now 20 years.
I will be doing a photo exhibit in my store called "movie theatres of the Upper Westside" very soon. I have some great and not so great pictures from the municipal archives of theatres long and not so long gone. But all missed.

Thank you,

Movie Place NYC

Now that Barbra has another concert tour planned for the summer maybe she should kick it off at the Kings. And if it's with Neil Daimond isn't he from NY as well? Now I know this can only happen in our dreams(these people insist that the logistics of these things be overwhelming and arcane) but it sure is a hell of an idea.

Movie Place,
What is your store called? And where is it located?

Vincent, Neil Diamond is from Brooklyn.

Divinity, my store is called Movie Place. We are located at 237 W 105th Street just off of Broadway in Manhattan. The photo exhibit will go up probably right after the New Year. I am still waiting for pictures of Loew's 83rd, The New Yorker and the Olympia. I have picures of the Riverside, Riviera, Schyler, Arden (the exterior was an art deco masterpiece)The Nemo and the Carlton which was on Broadway between 99th & 100th streets. It is now ironically occupied by the Griestedes (I forgot how to spell that particular form of hell) that was rumored to be eventually occupying the Metro Twin across Broadway. In addition I do have 2 slides of the interiors of the Riverside and Riviera, which are from very early in their existence. I have slides that were taken by Michael Miller much later. I am thinking about enlarging the older black & white slides. I just want to show people what we once had on the upper westside, what we have lost. Of course I would plug Cinema Treasures as well as the T.H.S.O.A. within the exhibit.

A special page has been added to the New York Nostalgia Buff Website. It is about the Kings. the url address is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm and any suggestions can be written here.

If Streisand "kicked off" her tour at the Kings, it would have to be out on the sidewalk or in a nearby parking lot, because the theatre is unfit for use until millions of dollars in repairs are made. I somehow doubt that she would pay for it herself.

Dear Movie Palace:
I have featured the Loew's Kings, the Loew's Paradise, the Loew's Pitkin, the RKO Bushwick and other vaudeville/movie palaces, complete with interior footage on various episodes of my show, but as far as when or which will be repeated, such decisions must still be made.

'That's Brooklyn' can be seen on the following schedule:
BROOKLYN
Tues. 11 AM & 7 PM, Time Warner Ch. 56/Cablevision Ch.69
INTERNET REAL TIME: www.bcat.tv/bcat - See Channel 3

QUEENS
12:30 PM - Time Warner Ch. 34 and 9:30 PM - Ch. 35

MANHATTAN
07:00 PM - Time Warner Ch. 56 AND RCN Ch. 108

INTERNET REAL TIME: www.mnn.org

Every week, a different episode airs in each borough!

As far as the docomentary, 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace' -- if you can find it, this tape is worth watching. It features Harold Rambusch who did the decorative design for the Loew's Kings, Brooklyn Paramount, The Roxy and some work on the Music Hall. The program also features Dorothy Solomon Panzica, manager of Loew's Kings 1961-75, a board member of 'Save The Kings' and a personal friend!

As far as Neil Diamond and Miss Babs, we don't expect their money, but their moral support and star power could help to bring the right attention to saving this cathedral of the ornate. Barbara has talked 'glowingly' about her days as a King's usherette, but has not responded to my letter-- which was hand delivered by her agent.

Bruce1, am I to understand that Dorothy Panzica is still alive!? Can you tell me how to contact her? My parents, my great aunt, and I visited the Kings in the early 70's just because I wanted to see the building. Dorothy caught me prowling around and gave me a personal top to bottom tour. I thought she was a terrific lady. I would love to write to her and tell her I've never forgotten her. Please tell me where she is and how she's doing!

Dear Ziggy,
Dorothy is alive and well, but out of courtesy, I will ask permission before giving out her #.


Bruce

Dear Warren.
You're idea about Streisand doing an outdoor concert in a nearby parking lot--has merit! It so happens that there is a 750 car parking lot, right behind the Loew's Kings and it is adjacent to Sear's lot. The Borough President could easily arrange for the stage, sound system and lighting.

If I could only think of who has the long term lease on that parking lot? Oh yeah! It's Bruce Ratner, developer of the Nets Arena Complex at Flatbush & Atlantic. Maybe we could start a massive letter writing campaign to Mr. Ratner? After all, he bought the Jersey NETS, maybe he'd buy one night with Barbra?

Sear's Flatbush is behind the Loew's Kings. As you all know, Sears has been taken over by KMART money. Remember the old Bob Vila commercials? Why not suggest to Sears that they rebuilt this OLD HOUSE?? Then it could become the Sear's Center for the Performing Arts. Couldn't Sears --- donate paint, Craftsmen Tools, whatever? They've been there since 1934, isn't it about time they gave something back to the community?

Bob Vila hasn't been associated with 'This Old House' for several years. He has his own show now called 'Home Again' which is mostly sponsored by Sear's, with a heavy emphasis on using Craftsman tools on many of the projects, in addition to the commercials. Nevertheless, the idea of Vila and Sears, with the possibility of Sear's lending it's name to the project, could be a good one.

Hello Bruce! I'm so glad to hear Dorothy is still alive! Is there some way I can confidentially get my contact info to you? That way you can give it to her, and she can be in control as to whether she wants to contact me or not. I would be amazed if she still remembered me, but I would love the chance to tell her hello.

It might actually be a good time to contact Sears' chief operating officer, or better yet, the billionaire who just bought them and Kmart a year ago. Many companies are looking for 'image' properties and the publicity that public good will would bring to them. Any approach to them should be very professional in tone and delivery, with possibly a full corporate presentation scheduled before the chairman and the board of directors of the new holding company. They are the ones that now control the purse strings and may be impressed enough to impose their wish for this even if the Sears executives are not enthusiastic. Since Sears now is also the sponsor of the TV show EXTREME MAKEOVER--HOME EDITION, they might be in the mood to top their work there with something like this "Sears Performing Arts Center" but then again, maybe it should be presented as being in the name of that billionaire who runs it all. I can't recall his name, but it will be in the current news media on-line though any business magazine.
One would have to write their HQ to get an appointment to approach the Board of Directors and the Big Man, but would probably have to convince someone of lower rank first as to the idea's merit, seriousness of purpose, and feasibility. This means at least something like a PowerPoint presentation, with photo blowups of the site, past and present, as well as the Sears store behind it. Remember that they do not go to all their stores, so may have no clear idea of the physical situation there; an aerial shot to show proximity may help. If you can get the Brooklyn borough chief to go with such as BruceC and perhaps an architect who has drawn up sketches on spec, then you will have a convincing team that can emphasize that Sears tools and materials will be prominent in the rebuild, and that cameras will follow the whole project. Since ABC television now runs the show on-air, it might be best to first contact them to see if they will film and air a show about such a project, and a letter from them to the Big Man may grease your way into their board room. And if you can line up a celebrity to offer to open the place in front of ABC's cameras for a special, then you may have a working formula, provided that you have also written out a workable business plan for the place. One experienced theatre rehabilitator is Paul Warshauer of Grande Venues Co. ( http://www.grandevenues.com/ ) outside of Chicago. He might be willing to undertake the entire project supervision for a fee. Asking NYC's Evergreen Studios (locate them through the League of Historic American Theatres: www.LHAT.org ) or the famous Conrad Schmitt Studios ( www.conradschmitt.com ) to do a "sample" in the building will help greatly in getting people to see what can be achieved, and photos of this should be brought to the presentation. Best Wishes New Yorkers; you are in a position to help save a theatrical jewel for the entire nation.

Jim I am in total awe. Who are you? What do you do?

Vincent: This is not the place for an autobiography, but suffice it to say that I have been studying theatre architecture and related topics since the 1960s, so do have a few years under my belt. If I come across as experienced, that can only be attributed to the year I spent as the Archivist/Historian to the 1895 National Historic Landmark PABST theatre here in Milwaukee. I am a published researcher and writer, but neuropathy is now robbing me of my ability to do much more, so at least appreciative people like you make CT a wonderful forum for our shared interest, as I have told the owners of this site, Ross and Patrick, several times.

Bruce 1;
It may be a good idea for you to put the show on out here on Long Island. There are many displaced Brooklynites out here that may show interest.

Dear Bruce 1,

thank you for responding. I did find it for sale on eBay but it is the actual film, like on a reel. I did see it once and I vividly remember the interviews with Dorothy Solomon. Her love for the building was palpable. If I am remembering it correctly, there was also interviews with a longtime projectionist and an organist. Again if I am remembering it correctly the organist came up with the console on its lift just to the side of the orchestra pit.
The last manager of Loew's 83rd was one of those people that had a real love for these buildings. I do not remember his name but he had worked at Shea's in Buffalo. He gave me a tour of what was left and what had been unseen for years, a tour that reminded of ziggy's tour of The Kings. I wish I hhad a camera. Incredibly, the stage was intact. There have been so many missed opportunities over the years to document these places in their various states of restoration or decay. I am glad that you have footage of the RKO Bushwick. I have been trying to find a copy of the Don Johnson movie that was shot in the Japanese Gardens (above the Riviera ) in Manhattan. I am very partial to Thomas Lamb and I have been kicking myself for 25 years that I had not explored the Riverside and Riviera Theatres before they were torn down. I wish that I had the foresight to have photographed these places but alas, I was too young. I am so glad I found this site. I cannot tell you, all of you how much this site means to me. I thought I was alone in my love for these buildings. Sorry, if I am rambling but I have been here at work for just under 14 hours. I will try to watch your show. I believe I get RCN Manhattan channel 108.
Thank you again and if you ever lecture any where please e-mail me.

Thank you again,

Movie Place

I have four copies of "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" that I used on the buses for the THS Conclave in 2002. We watched them on our way to the Kings for our tour. I recently found them, and will donate them to THSA in January when we have our Mid-Year Board Meeting.

Everyone,
"Memoirs of a Movie Palace" is available for loan from the New York Public Library, here is the info:

Memoirs of a Movie Palace
Christian Blackwood Productions, 1979
Call #: VTH 2832 M
1 videocassette (45 min.)
Summary: Before the proliferation of homogenized multiplex theaters, there existed the sumptuous and ornately otherworldly movie palaces. In Blackwoods's nostalgic documentary, cameras record the worn and melancholic splendor of the Loew's Kings Theater on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. Built just prior to the fateful 1929 Stock Market Crash, the theater conferred temporary royalty on its patrons during hard times and entertained with a bounteous moving picture feat of double features, cartoons, travelogues and serials. The affectionate (and sometimes tearful) reminiscences of loyal patrons are joined by those of the theater's architect, its one-time manager and other former staff members including a projectionist, organist, candy seller, usher and children's section matron. Archival footage, stills and clips from the movies shown at the Loew's Kings offer a glimpse of the theater in its heyday. Today, the once beloved motion picture palace stands locked, abandoned and exhibiting severe deterioration.
Performers: Eli Wallach.
Credits: Producer, director, Christian Blackwood; writer, Elliott Stein.

Anyone with a New York Public Library Card would be able to check this program out, The branch that has it is the Donnell Library Center, located at: 20 West 53rd Street, off of Fifth Avenue, the phone # is 212-621-0618. They are showing it as currently checked in.

I was able to borrow it from them It's an amazing program, well worth the trip to the library.

Hi Guys!
A lot of good ideas are coming out of this message board. However, it seems to me that if we expect to accomplish something, we must communicate-the old fashioned way-by phone. So anyone writing to me at thats.brooklyn@verizon.net and providing a name and phone number, will hear from me!

We must arrange a meeting, PLAN AN AGENDA and DELEGATE RESPONSIBILITIES.

OK, so here's my e-mail. thats.brooklyn@verizon.net


Bruce1

Alan, you're doing a hell of a job. Just remember you're not trying to Save The World, You're Just Trying to Save The Kings! Not the King of Kings, but the Loew's Kings.

You're right, Bruce One. I know that.

Alan, it's too bad, but I haven't gotten anybody's e-mail with their name and phone number and therefore, nobody's really ready to Save The Kings.

I just e-mailed you with my information.

I know we are not saving the world here. I was ready to bring the World's Fair back to Flushing Meadow. I haven't heard from that committee in over a year. It's just the idea of being part of a restoration. That I will put myself behind.

Robert R;
I think Bruce1 maybe talking about students from SUNY Stony Brook. I go there and I'm trying to get them interested.

Progress Report: In the last few days, various 'old' high school friends have shown a real interest and want me to meet some influencial people in show business/theater operation. So I will follow up and let you know what happened.

Bruce1

I am involved with Flushing Meadows also, small world.

Yeah, small world

Let's throw a World's Fair at the Loew's Kings!!! After all, living in Brooklyn is like living in the Little United Nations. Only in Brooklyn, it works!

Brooklyn is an amusement park, so let's go along for the ride. The Loew's Kings is a cathedral of the ornate, it's an indoor theme park! The architecture borrows from two main design elements: The Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

Are you listening Walt Disney???

Regards,
Bruce.

Don't laugh Bruce One. Disney is one of the main producers on Broadway, and they did restore the New Amsterdam. Maybe they should be contacted.

Leave no stone unturned :)

If Disney was to operate in Brooklyn, it would be better off taking a stake in Coney Island, which is ripe for re-development and has plenty of open land. Perhaps Disney could move the Kings there on rollers and place it near the ex-Loew's Coney Island. The Kings could be used for concerts and the smaller Coney Island as a playhouse. Disney could surround them with an entire amusement park similar to those it has elsewhere.

Warren, those would have to be the most humungous rollers the world has ever seen! How about a fleet of 500 air balloons picking up at once? And in this season, surely we could get Santa to loan his sleigh and maybe 10,000 reindeer! But surely Brooklyners would shed a tear at the loss of one of their landmarks. We can only hope that more of them come to see the KINGS as a landmark to be preserved.

No one could put a theater on rollers, except maybe Bruce Ratner who did just that with the El Tinge (aka EMPIRE) for AMC Theatres on Times Square.

Well, someone once said to me, 'If the Loew's Kings was only in a better neighborhood?' and I suggested, 'That's a great idea, I can put it on my back and move it.' Realistically, Flatbush is ready for it's close up and let's take advantage of all the things we've got. (Sounds like a song)

Besides, like I've said: Bruce Ratner already holds the lease on the 750 car parking lot adjacent to the Loew's Kings.

Eltinge

Well;
I was figuring that maybe we should contact people that are involved in the entertainment field. Like Dodger Theatricals, they are former Ebbet's Field Fans that produced such hits as Broadway's "Titannic the Musical" and others.

Bruce Ratner may be a good idea if he leases the parking lot. However, he may try to change it into a multiplex again. That would be bad if you ask me.

Is anybody on this page still alive? I haven't heard from you all in days.

The Loew's Kings was joint 2nd/3rd to open of the five 'Wonder Theaters'. It opened on the same day (7th September 1929) as the Loew's Paradise, Bronx, New York.

The opening programme at the Loew's Kings was the 'part talkie' movie "Evangeline" starring Dolores Del Rio and Robert Drew. On stage was a revue "Frills and Fancies", Wesley Eddy and his Kings of Syncopation and the Chester Hale Girls.

It is the 25th largest movie theater built in the USA.

Dear Loew's Kings fans:
Be sure and watch, 'That's Brooklyn' starting next Tuesday at 11 AM and 7 PM
www.bcat.tv/bcat -- for next 2 weeks, for 2 weeks only & only at REAL TIME.
When you get to the web site, Click ON Channel #3

Loew's Kings Part I and Part II. These classic episodes were shot inside this old house approximately 11 years ago and you're sure to enjoy.

In the meantime, I'll be taking a few days off and then we can arrange our first meeting!

Regards to all,
Bruce1

Thanks to Ken Roe for submitting further details about this fabulous theatre.

I did submit a full description and update for this page on November 15th after several members couldn't understand why there wasn't one. I even enclosed a personal picture of the exterior but for some reason Cinema Treasures won't update the page listing or even respond to my 4 emails asking why........

Porter, I am not sure where you've been sending this description to, but I don't ever recall seeing it come in and I check the submissions daily. Once I receive it, I'll make sure this page is updated. Thank you.

Bryan Krefft
Cinema Treasures

Thanks Bryan, will send again.

I thought of a great idea to bring to the Kings, and it may be profittable because of its silly nature, and some nostalgia. I call it the "Brooklyn begins with a B Movie Festival". I bought some schlock "B-Movie" DVDs and it's looks weird and fun what's out there. Instead of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' we can present 'Teenagers from Outer Space'. Then again, there are some great B-Movies, I saw Joan Crawford in 'rain' in there as well as some famous war movies. We pick twelve features and hold it over twelve consecutive days a year with a serial like one from the East Side Kids.

Maybe I should add that the DVDs had a catalog with them, and that's how I got the idea.

Getting DVDs is easy nowadays, but, sad to say, getting performance rights to them in a public place is not. The owner of each title must be tracked down and persuaded to give written permission to use the source of their property that they designate, usually for a very stiff fee! This is one reason that 'vintage movies' festivals seldom occur nowadays outside of non-profits for limited audiences.

Another idea occured to me was a Christmas Show like at Radio City Music Hall except our own. We can make it a multi-media show with video screens beside the stage.

Maybe I should add also, I am talking about 1940s and 1950s "B-Movies". The fee would not be as large.

With modern projection and other things other theaters throughout the country can play the show live, or we can hook up with a theater somewhere else and share the show. I don't normally consider the costs of my idea, I just throw them out.

I think I shouldn't have placed the addition on the B-Movie thing guys, sorry.

I wrote trying to get the famous ushers of this theater in the description above. They said I should add it here. Not only did Barbra Streisand usher there, but so did Henry Winkler and Sylvester Stallone. Ben Vereen's Mother worked there and he danced on the stage.

The Kings is currently a safety menace and can't be opened to the public until millions of dollars in repairs are made. Where do you propose holding this fund-raising event?

This was not a fund raising event, it was just an idea I had for when the Kings was opened.

Furthermore, fund raising events have been held under the marquis of the theater. Has the theater fallen down? No, it hasn't. In other words the building can be saved.

I was looking at a Los Angeles Tourism page. For those of you who don't know, my family plans to visit that area. It seems Disney restored Hollywood's El Capitan Theater, maybe they can do the same for ours. They run stage shows and movies there like it's an old picture palace.

Hi Gang, I'm just back from Disney World and have some news about the Loew's Kings as an INDOOR Theme Park!

The owner, NYC Economic Development Corporation, not the Flatbush Redevelopment Corp, will issue their Request for Proposal on the theater in either April or May. In the meantime, Brooklyn Borough President's Office has been asked to submit their recommendations for how RFP should read. I will be meeting with the BP's people this week to help draft their response.

Bruce1

What exactly do you mean by indoor theme park? Wasn't this supposed to be a performance venue?

The architects/decorative designers used various styles of architecture in creating the Loew's Kings and that is what I mean by the term: 'indoor theme park'. The 2 main design elements borrow liberally from the Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

It was a performance venue in the days of vaudeville, where the orchestra either rose from the pit or was on stage behind the performer. Thus, the terms: 'pit' and 'stage shows'. Under a plan by Save The Kings, it would return to it's glory days and present LIVE concerts and possibly a try out venue for upcoming Broadway productions.

Maybe one day they may tryout one of my shows (Although I have my doubts considering I'm newcomer)...Thanks Bruce One.

Did anyone watch 'That's Brooklyn' parts I and II on the Loew's Kings?

Bruce1 just wrote me that the main reason they may not be letting people into the theater is insurance. I apologize if I offended anybody on this page. However, the asbestos study has been completed, and that is apparently not a problem.

According to Bruce1 the city plans to receive requests for proposals in April. That is when the city will let in perspective developers. Right now, I hope they find somebody.

I thought that some of you would have watched the last two episodes of 'That's Brooklyn' that featured the Loew's Kings, but unfortunately nobody seems to have watched!

What can I say? Based on your postings on this board, I thought the shows would be of interest.

My organization is trying to Save The Kings, I hope that your interest will continue to grow.

Bruce1

Mine still will but I wasn't sure whether I could receive it on my computer. It does not have realtime player.

What would you all think of putting in a show about Brooklyn if and when we reopen this theater? I am the writer who is writing one. I also haven't heard a response from this page lately

Isn't there already a new play about Brooklyn?

Bruce1,

Is That's Brooklyn only on on Tuesdays? Will they repeat those shows? I'll happily pay postage and stock cost for a VHS tape yet, or better yet a DVD. If you know when/if they'll be repeated, I'll watch!

Dear Shade,
Thanks for your interest. I have no immediate plans to repeat those episodes of 'That's Brooklyn,' but you might catch them on manhattan neighborhood network, channel 56 on Wednesday nights at 7:30pm sometime in the near future. [www.mnn.org] I'll provide details ASAP.

At this point videos are not available, but thanks for your interest.

Bruce1, please provide those details when you get them. I know some others here in Manhattan who'd also like to see it. Thanks--

You should make them available in video, Bruce 1.

I know there is already a Broadway Show about Brooklyn. Mine has a different premise.

Has anybody seen this Sunday's NY Times? Take a look at the Real Estate Section and you'll find the cover story about a new developer in town! Among his projects is to build atop the old RKO Flushing with an apartment complex. Perhaps he would be interested in building a hotel/rental apartments with a revolving restaurant looking out on all of Brooklyn? If so, why doesn't he look at the Loew's Kings?

You'll also find an article about various developers buying up former bank buildings, built by some of our finest classical architects. They are not being destroyed, but lovingly restored -not as banks but as high end condos, restaurant/catering, the newest Balducci's and I know this will be hard to believe, but as a Union Square Theatre.

I've got a rather novel idea! Why not convert a magnificent movie palace into all of the above? The lobby could be rented out for private parties or for an art exhibition or as 'The Joe Franklin' memorabilia museum, [Joe loves the idea!] then building up from the store fronts, this can be additional retail space and then, a smart developer could use the air rights to create a hotel and condos and even a multiplex and capped with a restaurant. Best of all, I have a ruly novel idea, why not use the theater as a live theater?

Perhaps cinematreasure fans could write to Mr. Boymelgreen? He seems to have respect for the classic architecture and seems to find neighborhoods that need a boost. Check the article!!

Bruce1

That would be okay, just so long as the theater itself is not split. The hotel above the Palace Theater in Manhattan was built so that it does not touch the roof. What's this Boymelgreen's E-Mail? That would really be some help. Maybe we should also contact whoever built the hotel and see what they think.

I don't have the e-mail address, but the company name is: Leviev Boymelgreen--they may have an office in Manhattan, but you might also try 700 Pacific Street, Brooklyn NY.

One e-mail might not do the trick, but if all the people who read this site were to send an e-mail, maybe it could light the fire.

Flushing is a different situation than Flatbush. It already has several thriving hotels due to its proximity to LaGuardia Airport and Flushing's importance as a business center for the Asian community. Who's going to stay at a luxury hotel in Flatbush, which is comparatively in the middle of nowhere?

We really need someone who is interested in theaters. Maybe we should try some promoters who have money enough and are also interested in construction.

I just read the theater description above. Does full stage mean that it has elements like theatrical traps, and what we call in theater a "fly system"? That is a system where they can store flats and lower them from above.

The KINGS has a full fly system and large stage, though I do not have the statistics at hand. Likely there are or were several traps in the stage since that was usual construction back then. Even the MODJESKA, a neighborhood house here in Milwaukee had 20 traps!

That would mean they could hold Broadway Productions at the Kings.

A 1929 view of the Kings stage can be found towards the bottom of the page at this website http://www.gabesplayerpianos.org/html/Stanloew.html

Thanks beardbear;
That does look like a grand stage.

I saw the Ali-Frazier II and Ali-Foreman fights on closed-circuit in this theater. The crowds outside alone were huge, like the fights were actually being held there.

Is anyone on this page still interested in what's going on with the possible restoration of the Kings? Last I heard they may start tours in April for people who are interested in possibly restoring the theater.

Count me in darling!

To: Jim Rankin
Loew's Kings has two stage lifts, if that's what you mean by 'traps'. Here are some accurate dimensions:
Proscenium Height: 32 ft
Proscenium Opening: 60 feet wide
Stage Depth [From rear of orchestra pit] 32 feet
Fly Height: (to grid from state est.) 70 feet
Grand Lobby: (approx) 42' W x 70' D
Inner Lobby (approx) 32' W x 56' D
Main House/ Excludes Stage (approx) 152' W x 144' D
Rear Orchestra Foyer (approx) 136' W x 32' D
Shop Space (approx) shoe store 20' x 50'
Shop Space (approx) 3 store fronts 60 x 50' D

Building a box above the retail frontage can create additional selling space or components of a multiplex with access to the main theater's mezzanine. The square block footprint has an additional 30,000 sq. feet of retail which is available. The basement areas do include a basket-ball court once used by the ushers, but could be retrofit for two additonal screens or even more retail space (or Jazz Club or Comedy Club) Under the stage are a grouping of rehearsal space, screening rooms and backstage offers almost 30 dressing rooms, wardrobe and chorus facilities.

In effect, you could create at least a 10plex or a combination of theater and retail space without subdividing the auditorium.

To: Gustavelifting

These tours are not for the general public, but only for real estate developers, entrepreneurs and other billionaires.
Bruce1

Thanks, Bruce, for that excellent breakdown of the dimensions and physical nature of the wonderful KINGS. I wish I had the proximity and resources to it that you have.

“Traps” are actually small openings in a stage floor covered with doors that open downward instantly so as to cause the dropping of an actor through the floor onto cushions in the below stage space. This was a device often called for in classical plays as well as melodramas of later years. In more advanced theatres, multiple traps could be linked together to open as one, thus opening a large portion of the stage floor for some scenic effects. Perhaps the single best illustration of their use is in the Cary Grant mystery “Charade” where the antagonist is walking across a darkened stage in search of Mr. Grant who is below the stage in the wings putting his hand to the line of trip lines that will release the one appropriate to the one the man is standing on; Mr. Grant is shown estimating the man’s position on the numbered trap doors only by sound of his footsteps above. It is exciting and shows the physical usage of multiple traps in a large stage.

The ROXY and other large facilities not only had stage elevators as that wonderful photo in THE BEST REMAINING SEATS makes clear, but often several traps in each elevator sometimes along with a turntable the width of the stage! When Ben Hall dubbed such “miracles of levitation” he wasn’t far from wrong.

Stage shows lasted here only nine months, and were withdrawn on June 7th, 1930. The only "Wonder Theatre" with a shorter record was Loew's 175th Street, which ended stage shows after two months due to low attendance.

Thanks Everybody for all the info;

Bruce 1, I knew they were not for the general public, but people interested in restoration.

To: Jim Rankin
Thanks for the 'super information'. Having been on the stage and under the stage at the Loew's Kings many times, I never saw such 'traps' but interestingly at the Loew's 46th Street, still pretty much intact, but alas a furniture store in Brooklyn, there is a 'normal' trap door that opens up - ward! Only this one is not on the stage (stage is gone) but is actually in the manager's office. It was used by the manager to secretly exit the office with the day's receipts and go down to the basement, out the back door and straight to the bank!!

The ROXY, NY and Brooklyn Paramount's were designed by Rambusch and Company. A few years ago, the family came with me on a tour of the Kings. They offered to begin a training opportunity program for interns in the art of theatre restoration. As you can well imagine, all the contacts ++ all their enthusiasm, means nothing if we don't have the money guy!

Bruce1

To: Warren
Thanks for the information on the early demise of vaudeville at Loew's Kings, but how sure are you that it's accurate?

Loew's Metropolitan continued vaudeville until around 1935
Brooklyn Paramount kept it going until 1936.

Are you familiar with pit vs presentation shows? If not, 'pit' meant that they had the orchestra in the pit and 'presentation' had the orchestra on stage with acts in front.

So Bruce1 tell us what the Kings looked like when you were inside? How many years ago were you inside?

I tried to contact the firm of Rapp and Rapp, but they seem to be a computer firm now, and aren't returning my E-Mails. I figured they would be able to help me find some groups that are interested in retoring Rapp and Rapp Architecture.

By the way did you all know that Rapp and Rapp also designed the Brooklyn and New York Paramount Theaters? They also have many theaters on the National Register of Historic Place, and for their architecture yet!

Rapp and Rapp ceased to exist as an architectural firm in the 1950s, but much of their archives remain at the Theatre Historical Society in Elmhurst Illinois, 15 miles west of Chicago. Reach them through their web site: www.HistoricTheatres.org

I'm correct about the withdrawal of stage shows at the Kings after only nine months. One of the reasons was Depression conditions. Another was competition from the Flatbush & Kenmore Theatres, which were also presenting vaudeville. Also, the Kings proved too big for conventional vaudeville. With most of its 3,676 seats on the ground floor, performers complained of not being able to "reach" the audience. It was OK for spectacles, but they were too expensive to mount and transport from one Loew's theatre to another.

To: Robert R.
From: Bruce1
The last time I visited the Loew's Kings was about 5 months ago. At that time, nothing much had changed. Every so often, something manages to disappear. This time, I noticed a 1929 vintage - intercom no longer hung from the manager's office wall.

The City of NY had completed their asbestos study and found that that was NOT a problem and they had shored up the terracota facade. Above the stage house, the glass panes have suffered and it still allows the entry of pigeons. A few years ago, I was alarmed after seeing the damage caused by cascading rain water on the box seats. I was able to convince the Bklyn Borough Pres. Office to begin work on that roof within 3 weeks, instead of the planned 6 week wait. So now, it appears to keep the place dry. Of course there is no heat or fresh air, so the theater remains in a constant state of mildew/chill.

Maybe, I'm just in love with the place, but it looks no worse than the New Amsterdam before the Disney people went to work.

Your love of the grandiose KINGS is well placed, Bruce, and yes, it can be restored just as the NEW AMSTERDAM was as long as something of it remains to be a starting point in the restoration. All it takes is money, LOTS of money. Ironically, I fear that even if money is found for the essential structural and plaster repairs along with other physicals, it is the 3-story-high monumental draperies that will not be replacable, since no drapery makers of that caliber exist any longer, nor the firms such as E.L.Mansure Co. which made the 5-foot-long tassels and 4-foot-long fringe upon them. Such textile artistry was unique to the lavish interior of the KINGS which decorative draperies were intended to convey the opulence of a true king's palace! Such ornaments of the past are today sneered at as 'feminine' and of no material worth in the iconography of the 'now generation'. I guess I dream as you do of restoring this wonderful venue as the Jehovah's Witnesses did the STANLEY in N.J., but even such as they who do not have to pay property taxes, still did not attempt to return the original lavish, opulent designs of the original draperies due to the extreme costs involved. The KINGS may never appear again as it did in 1929, but then few things do! If you again come upon any of the original textiles remaining, I strongly suggest that you get permission to remove them (or significant pieces of them) so that you can preserve them in some dry place to have some remaining examples of things to restore, should some miracle arise and an 'angel' wants to spend the millions to do a genuine restoration. True restoration can only be done if samples remain to guide and direct that restoration. With such samples preserved, ANYTHING can be reproduced with enough time and money. I volunteer to come and help make up the drawings of those draperies should such funding come to be.

If we could find a group that's interested in the restoration of Rapp and Rapp Architecture then that would help to. They may be able to raise the money. Rapp and Rapp has not returned my E-Mails.

Gustavelifting, whoever you're emailing isn't Rapp & Rapp. Please see Jim Rankin's post from 3/8 above. The firm of Rapp & Rapp has not existed for decades so there isn't any way to contact them.

I tried getting in touch with the firm of Rapp and Rapp, but they never returned my E-Mails. I thought that maybe there would be some group that would be interested in restoring their architecture. The firm has since become a computer web firm.

Not the same Rapp & Rapp, my friend...I assure you.

Got to get in your face, Jim. Rapp & Rapp lasted well into the 60's. By this time the firm did all kinds of work...bank buildings, for instance. The odd theater job did still turn up...like that place in Detroit...what was it...originally very exotic...the Fisher.

You can't save them all...at least to function as 2,000 plus seat theaters. But, this was a great one. I was happy to hear that the plan to turn it into multiple cinemas fell apart. Hopefully a plan will materialize to bring it back to life. If a bunch of volunteers & community activists can save the place over in Jersey City, anything can happen!

Mason Rapp, who closed the firm, would be amazed to see so many of their theaters still around in 2005. He felt that movie palaces had become obsolete, and died just as preservation efforts in America were picking up steam.

Also of note...I don't know what Rapp & Rapp materials exist in Elmhurst, IL. But, the entire collection of original blueprints was donated to the Chicago Historical Society in the 80's. Ironically, Mason preserved the blueprints because he thought they would be worth money to the people tearing the old buildings down. He was a smart man, but he sure didn't see to the other side of that one!

Thanks Life...Maybe I should contact them.

Life's...;
In case you didn't read it before...There is an effort just Email thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

There are also some Rapp & Rapp blueprints, including those for the Kings, in the Billy Rose Theatre Collection at the Library of the Performing Arts in Lincoln Center, NYC.

I hope that library is online

Dear Warren and Gustav:
Sorry, but the only reference you will find at the Billy Rose Theatre Collection - at the LIbrary for the Performing Arts are the REFERENCE CARDS themselves! Everything else is long gone! Mr Big, the head man said to me, 'We have no idea what happened to all those blueprints.'

Therefore, if the Chicago Historical Society has blueprints of the Kings, they are indeed - one of a kind!!

And -- so it goes. On a happier note, the Brooklyn Paramount may get lucky. There is talk in LIU Long Island University Circles of a possible and that's in capital letters--movement to restore and reopen the Brooklyn Paramount--as a theatre!

While we're on the subject of Brooklyn, theatre fans might check out the magnificent Brooklyn Tech Theatre space which olds almost 4,000 seats and is in pristine condition. The Principal wants to see it used for outside productions, when not in use by the school.

The other night, I wandered into the Brooklyn Academy of Music and talked my way up to the dressing room area where they were preparing to shoot a scene from 'The Producers'. By luck, I met the right people and explained that the architects for BAM were Hertz and Talent, who also did the New Amsterdam. It seems that they were shooting a scene from 'The Producers' but would also be shooting at the St. James (Yesterday) so it's a movie about a play within a play that was based on a movie. Well, that's the kind of movie we should write about the Loew's Kings. It will not become a multiplex, but a live theater that might for a special run screen one movie to 1 big audience. No multiplex here!!

Bruce1

That's great. But, still, what about the Kings?

I hate to say it, but if, finally, we cannot bring back the glorious KINGS, then we would do well to bring back the equally glorious BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT. The photos of it in Ben Hall's BEST REMAINING SEATS reveal a wonderland of opulence, and typically, the sumptuous 'Bird of Paradise' house curtain will be among the most difficult and costly artifact to reproduce. We hate to trade off palaces, but if it must be, this is a fitting trade.

Did they open the King's for people to get proposals for redevelopment?

Well, why not try both. I'm game for the Paramount.

Do you think we would need a website like I did for the Kings?

The Brooklyn Paramount is larger and more sumptuous than the Kings, mainly because of its location in downtown Brooklyn, which was the equivalent of a major city in those days. The Brooklyn Paramount was also the first theatre built in the project that Loew's took over from Paramount and became known as the "Loew's Wonder Theatres." That's how Rapp & Rapp became architects of the Kings. They had already been scheduled for it by Paramount...The Brooklyn Paramount now seems to have an edge over the Kings in restoration to a theatre, since it's in better physical condition and better served by public transportation.

I know the guy who conducted the transaction...the word was the entire colletion...no exceptions...went to the Chicago Historical Society.

But, what the hell...I can ask him.

Who conducted what transaction? And do you mean Chicago Historical Society or Theatre Historical Society of America, which has its HQ near Chicago?

Folks,

This talk of sacrificing Kings Loew Theater for Brooklyn Paramount Theater is not acceptable. Because the Brooklyn Paramount is part of a university it has access to millions of dollars, so if the university wants to make it a theater again, they can. However,it is up to all of us who care about the Kings to save it. The idea that it is not cost effective to save the Kings is foolish. To build a new performing arts center would cost 3 or 4 times the amount it would take to restore the Kings and I doubt that anyone is going to build a more beautiful theater. Someone has to make a decision to create a non-profit organization to save the Kings and become incorporated. Once that is done, the organization can ask fortune 500 companies as well as the entertainment community to donate money to save the Kings. To encourage donations, the organization can make a list of corporate sponsors so that it will be worthwhile for companies and/or indivduals to donate money because they are getting free publicity. We, the readers cannot blame a theater owner for the decline of the Kings. The Kings belongs to the City of Brooklyn, so it is up to all of us, who care to save it. Let's stop all this talk and bein taking action. Once people realize we are serious about saving the Kings than other people will look at the Kings in a different light. Instead, of seeing the Kings as a burden to the City, they will see all the potential. If the Kings were restored it could be used for filming (commericals, movies and videos just like the grand Los Angeles Theater in LA,CA), conventions, plays, and even use it as a church or a museum (placing art and/or scuptures throughtout the theater). Be creative but whatever we do, let's stop all this talking and start taking some action to save the Kings!

Lance makes perfect sense! Bruce makes perfect sense, but from 1987 until the present, Bruce has tried everything and still nothing. Well, not exactly nothing. I have brought the Loew's Kings to the attention of Disney, Clear Channel, Ron Delsener Productions, Rambusch (the decorative design firm, who also did the Brooklyn Paramount), Evergreene, SFX--Sillerman, multi millionaire and showman who is a major investor in Bruce Ratner's new NETS arena, Marty Markowitz- who loves the idea and has always been a big supporter of the project, Joe Franklin - who wants to put his movie merorabilia and vaudeville museum in the lobby, Brooklyn Arts Council (BAC), Ben Vereen' who's mother was a char lady at the Kings, Sylvester Stallone, Henry Winkler and Streisand who were all ushers at the Kings, Arthur Tracy (The Street Singer) who performed here in vaudevill
and so so so many others. (Not to mention the biggest real estate developers including Ratner, Vornado, Grid Properties, the people who brought you Harlem U.S.A., Millennium Partners who opened the Sony Loews Lincoln Plaza complete with the facade of the Loew's Kings, David Rockwell who designed that and everything DISNEY. Just think, if I never get this accomplished, I had one hell of a good time, met some fascinating people and my buddy, Dorothy at 90 is STILL the manager of Loew's Kings!

So why don't we continue writing little memories and little hopes and forget Lance's BRILLIANT suggestion of actually doing something?

I don't think it's a matter of one theatre being "sacrificed" for another. It's just that the Paramount seems to have a better chance of being returned to theatrical use because of its physical condition and location. However, the Paramount does have to contend with its proximity to the Brooklyn Academy of Music, which dominates the downtown cultural scene and probably would not welcome competition.

The enormous community revival underway in Brooklyn makes it conceivable that the city's most populous borough can support several performance spaces in addition to BAM and Brooklyn College's Whitman Auditorium. We should not consider the redevelopment of the Kings & the Paramount as canceling each other out. Some creativity especially in targeting niche audiences is what called for, in addition of course, to financial support. Both of these splendid spaces can co-exist.

Perhaps when the restored Paradise in the Bronx re-opens, that will provide some guidelines, especially if it proves successful. And if it doesn't, that could spell the end for the return of the Brooklyn Paramount and Kings.

My uncle conducted the transaction I speak of...his name is CW Rapp. He is son of Mason Rapp, who closed Rapp & Rapp in the 60's.

The transaction took place in 1988. All blueprints (actually linen tracings) that were left at the time the office closed, and a collection of photographs, were donated to the Chicago Historical Society.

Brother Andrew Corsini, from THS, was allowed to make copies of the photographs before transfer. This is the only thing that resembles a Rapp & Rapp archive at THS in Elmhurst.

The only plans for a Brooklyn theater included in the donation were those of the Paramount. The fate of plans for the Kings is difficult to judge. A lot of materials were thrown out around 1930, when the office was slow. Basically, they saved only what they thought might generate more work. There was a flood at one point. Each time they moved, a thing or two was thrown away. Maybe plans for the Kings really are floating around New York somewhere...

The only blueprint of the Loew's Kings that I know to exist is in my possession. It was found in a carton of garbage, in the dumpster, out back behind the theater. That blueprint allowed the guys who did the recent asbestos/lead abatement study to understand the structure.

As to the recent comments by Life's too short, Warren, Astyanax, etc...I can only say that it's too bad that nobody is interested in the BRILLIANT suggestion made by Lance!!!!

"Let's stop all this talking and start taking some action to save the Kings!"

Many cities such as Milwaukee microfilmed most old blueprints before discarding them and sent the films to rented archives deep in the empty salt mines out west; did New York do something similar? It may be necessary to cultivate a 'friend' in the city's building inspection department to learn what may be confidential. Conceiveably, one could then pay to have a film returned and duplicated or have new prints made off of the film.

As Bruce points out from the print he acquired, it IS possible to redraw the prints from what remains and from photos, but is IS quite expensive!

All I can say is that we've got some pretty clever people coming up with ideas and historical stuff on this message board! Maybe if somebody would actually attempt to do, what THEY suggest, it might prove fruitful.

I don't know anybody at the Building's Department, (as the song goes) 'How about you?' If there were committees and ideas were actually discussed and strategies planned, possibly we could be successful.

Yesterday, on one of my fact finding missions, I found much underused land (surrounding Loew's Kings) is being bought up by the same people. There's even a large tract that some folks told me will be a warehouse. But other folks told me that their houses, (that are adjacent to the space) are getting offers to 'sell' so that a new shopping mall can be built. QUESTION: Why build warehouse with a shopping center next door? ANSWER: Because the developer plans to build a bigger mall!!

If that's the case, then those same developers might not be planning to bid on the King's site, in order to turn it into a shopping mall. But, regulars here will remember that I talked about Sear's Flatbush, built on land owned by a multibillion dollar developer...well, that same developer with the cooperation of K-Mart has taken a controlling share of Sears. As Artie Johnson on Laugh-In used to say, 'Very Interesting!!' (Don't forget Sears is right behind the Loew's Kings)

Over the past 18 years, I have seen similar developments in the area. Now things seem to be heating up again. Maybe the time is finally right??

Timeline:
White Flight - In the 70's
The Theater closed in 1979
Afro American and Caribbean Community is vital to the economic growth of area
No theater serves the area
Nearby apartment houses have gone coop and condo
National chain stores have surrounded the theater
(originally, the theater came before the shopping district)
neighborhood has very good police protection and is now considered safe IN DAYTIME
(remember Times Square, before Disney?)
NYC will hold issue their RFP -April or May.

What we need is to do is call a meeting, divide into committees and actually do something!

You are on the money Bruce. Taking action is always the tough part...especially when you are unfamiliar with what is required.

"Let's Try to remember, the days in September" (September 7th, 1929- to be exact) when the Loew's Kings opened their doors.. 'and follow..' Wasn't that a song??? It's a long, long time.... from May to September and the days grow short, till we reach September. (NYC EDC will issue their RFP in April-May)

"The days dwindle down to a precious few, September, November.." .Just remember, it's not over till the fat lady sings!!

The theater opened on September 7th, but then soon enough, came 'Black Friday.' Not the movie, starring Boris Karloff, but the day the Stock Market crashed. For all you old movie buffs, 'Those were the good old days.' That was Ray Walston in 'Damn Yankees' It starred Gweyn Verdon, the dancer who had a friend named Viola Hoolihan. Vi started as a dancer working for the Arthur and Kathryn Murray Dance Studios at the corner of Church & Flatbush. Later, she auditioned for Billy Rose and also the Chester Hale Dancers (who worked the LOEW'S KINGS!) Viola chose the glitter of Broadway to the wilds of Brooklyn. Today, she lives to talk about it. How do I know??? Because she's a close friend of my wife's mother, that's why!

If our message board members want to do something to Save The Kings, here's what we CAN do.

Come up with a publicity campaign for select movies that played the Loew's Kings. Pick those that have a relevance to reopening this cathedral of the ornate.

For instance, former usherette Barbra Streisand, along with Robert Redford in 'The Way We Were'
Let's resurrect the award winning campaign of Loew's Kings Manager, Dorothy Solomon Panzica's: To Clean Up The Neighborhood and return it to 'The Way We Were'

Or how about, 'The Lords of Flatbush' which starred not one but TWO former Loew's Kings ushers, Henry WInkler (The Fonz) and Sylvester Stallone.

Let's not forget Eili Wallach, who narrated Christian Blackwood's film: 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' but was also a member of the Flatbush Boys Club, just a few blocks from the Loew's Kings! From what I hear, when he was asked for a contribution to the Flatbush Boy's Club, Mr. Wallach sent an autographed picture!

From what I hear, Barbra Streisand isn't making many public appearances these days. She made 'Funny Girl' - the life story of Fanny Bryce, who also walked the boards at Loew's Kings. I have heard that Babs secretly donates $50,000 a year to the Erasmus High School Alumni Fund. She has also talked about her roots at Loew's Kings on her TV specials and concert tours. But, from what I hear, she's gained a lot of weight. Maybe our campaign could say, 'It's not over until the fat lady sings!'

What movies played the Kings? ["What's playing at the Roxy? I'll tell you what's playing at the Roxy.. what's in the Daily News, I'll tell you what's in the Daily News..." That's from 'Guys & Dolls' and that's the 2005 production being mounted on the great stage at Brooklyn Tech next month!!
By the way, Rambusch, the decorative design firm created detail for the Roxy AND Loew's Kings.

What if we threw a film festival of all the movies that played the Kings that could play a part or take a roll in creating The Kings County Center For The Performing Arts?

Earlier, I mentioned Boris Karloff. Does anyone remember that in 1958, he starred as Captain Hook in the Broadway revival of 'Peter Pan.' At that time, Zacherley, TV's Cool Ghoul asked Mr Karloff, 'Do you mind that we kid your old movies?' Karloff replied, 'No, you're keeping me alive.'

But if you want a newer movie, how about 'Neverland' a Bob & Harvey Weinstein production (the boys from Brooklyn) That's the story of J.M. Barry, author of Peter Pan. Wait a minute! Didn't I talk about Karloff appearing as Captain Hook in 'Peter Pan'? Yes, I do, indeed I do, and in the words of Al Jolson, (The Jazz Singer) "You aint heard nothin yet!" That was the first silent movie musical, but Gweyn Verdon's husband was Bob Fosse and they made his life into a movie: 'All That Jazz.'

('Silent Movie' wasn't that a Mel Brooks film? Speaking of Mel Brooks, another boy from Brooklyn, he's now busy making 'The Producers' in Brooklyn! But then again, Woody Allen and Neil Simon are both from Brookyn! Didn't Woody make some of his films in Brooklyn? Didn't he make a movie about a movie theater?

If Neil Simon wasn't born in Brooklyn. If Neil Simon hadn't lived in Brooklyn, he wouldn't have written: 'Brighton Beach Memoirs' and let's not forget Arthur Schwartz (DJ Jonathan Schwartz's father) He wrote, 'Dancing In The Dark' (there's a scene in the Fred Astaire film that takes place in a park. Could Arthur Scwhartz have been thinking of The Prospect Park? He also wrote, 'That's Entertainment' and lived in Flatbush!!!

'Good night Mrs. Calabash, where ever you are.' That was Jimmy Durante and HE appeared LIVE on stage at the Loew's Kings. Does anybody remember hearing, 'Channel 7, NY. Next 'Shock Theater'? Well, that starred TV's Cool Ghoul, Zacherley! The grand old boy had and STILL HAS a tag line: 'Good Night, whatever you are!!'"

Did I mention that in the mid 70's Zacherley appeared LIVE on stage at the Loew's Kings?? Well, if I didn't mention it, he did! Besides, wouldn't it be simply grand if the Loew's Kings was beautifully restored and reopened as 'The Kings County Center For The Performing Arts?' Even Zacherley, (a personal friend) prefers that to Shock Theater." A few years ago, I met Karloff's daughter, Sarah and asked: 'What do you think of all the remakes?' She replied, 'If it's not broke, don't fix it."

I asked, 'Do you go to see monster movies?' She replied, 'No, I'm too scared!' BORIS KARLOFF"S DAUGHTER is afraid of monster movies? Are you afraid to help Save The Kings??

So if you want to talk about 'That's Entertainment,' tune in 'That's Brooklyn'
BCAT-Tuesday 11 AM and 7 PM Time Warner-Ch. 56/Cablevision - Ch. 69
MNN-Wednesdays at 7:30 PM on Time Warner -Channel 56
QPTV-Wednesdays at 9:00 PM on Time Warner -Channel 35
And beginning April 5th, every Tuesday night at 7:30 throughout Nassau County on Cablevision.

As a theatrical type person I am willing to put myself behind both the Paramount and Kings projects. The more the theaters, the better the Brooklyn. Not that Brooklyn is bad, heck, Coney Island is a nice place. However, it could still use some tweeking to get it back to its former, Dodger Days, glory. Keep in mind that I am a former Brooklynite and still love the place. This will help

I find the different types of history each theater has to be interesting. For the Paramount it was more rock 'n' roll rebellion. For the Kings, it was more stars before they were stars. Alan Freed held his famous and raucus concerts at the Paramount, and they were so loved they became sort of a thing of folklore. However, the Kings silently backed people and assisted them in their Hollywood Glory as, well, their first break into show business. With their separate histories, they made a dent in the world of show business.

I would also like to add that while we should shoot for a 100% restoration, any restorative effort is good. A 50% restoration is more than a 0% restoration. We may only be able to reach 70-90% on the Kings, but its better than nothing.

For those who wish that Tony Orlando was still popular, they too, should reach for the stars, that's why I'd suggest that you tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree!

In the lobby of Loew's Kings, you'll find a giant redwood forest of fluted walnut columns with Corinthian tops that reach toward the mosaic sky.

Bruce 1;
I have been also speaking with the people on the Brooklyn Paramount Page. What would you say to tying the restoration of the Kings and the Paramount?

Obviously, my comments here have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody seems willing to do anything other than write messages, but when it comes to doing anything. That's another story.

Bruce is right. If I were in NYC and had free time, I would step up. People can accomplish amazing things if they band together, settle on a goal, and keep trying.

Why don't you take the first step: set a time and place for an initial planning meeting?

I heard on a major news network that Brooklyn is one of the next hot spots in the nation for a real estate boom, along with Downtown Detroit near the water. A lot of people are being pushed out of Manhattan and moving to Brooklyn which is a lot cheaper and you get more for your money.brucec

First of all, thank you Life's too short and BruceC. And just for the record, the same developers who are responsible for all the redevelopment of Downtown Brooklyn have been buying up the land around the Loew's Kings!! I know this for a fact!!!

Psstt! You want to buy a theater? The present owner, the NYC Economic Development Corp. will put the theater up on RFP (Request for Proposal) in April or May.

But then, that's exactly what happened with the Detroit Fox, the Chicago and the St. Louis FOX. So, to quote from the old movie: 'It Happened In Brooklyn' with Jimmy Durante and Frank Sinatra who sing: "It Comes Straight From The Heart' and the Loew's Kings is the Heart of Brooklyn!!

I read earlier about Dorothy Solomon and that she's still alive. I'd love to be able to contact her. For most of my early life, for good or for bad, I was known as "Danny Cohen's son." My dad was the manager of the Loew's Kings right before Dorothy. He was there when the Tisch's visited upon their takeover of Loew's and based on how well that theatre presented and was managed he was promoted to headquarters at 1540 Broadway. I spent lot's of PM's there after my day at Erasmus. In 1959 I worked behind the candy stand. Anyway I just happened upon this site recently and would like to contribute in any way I can to the revitalization efforts.

To: Iving Cohen
Of course, Dorothy remembers your dad. She'll be more than happy to talk with you, but let's first exchange e-mail addresses and then you can have Dorothy's #.

That real estate boom could be a selling point for the idea. However, you must convice them that this is worth keeping and not demolishing. You don't want the Kings to go the way of Ebbet's Field.

I thought of a way that may make the Kings savable. We tell the people who want to own it of its historical value. Rapp and Rapp, for example, have buildings that are national landmarks because of their architecture. Then again, there are those world famous ushers who achieved Hollywood greatness and stars on the Walk of Fame after leaving the theater. Does anyone out there know of any gangsters, historical politicians, and famous soldiers who visited? They may also be a selling point.

Hey Gus, if this was open...I'd go inside; it wouldn't depend on what's playing.

Good Saps, but that wasn't about what was playing but the history of the theater. If it were open, I think you should go in.

Here is the original press release from when they were going to carve this up as a Magic Johnson Cinema.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/99a/pr101-99.html

The aptly named Loews Kings was the LOEWS of LOEWS. Period.

For all those who may have missed my message of March 23rd, I am repeating my words:

"Obviously, my comments here have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody seems willing to do anything other than write messages, but when it comes to doing anything. That's another story."


posted by Bruce1 on Mar 23, 2005 at 8:43am

Bruce, dear fellow, it is of no use scolding people for not doing more than talking, unless you yourself are willing and able to take the lead. Here is how you start:
1) Set up a place for interested nearby people can meet at little or no expense to themselves, and give date, time, place and something of a skimpy agenda. If you can show "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" to start the meeting, that might get all in the mood. DO NOT call the media; it is too early to embarrass any who are camera shy. Likewise, do not demand anyone sign up on a roster for future meetings or the like at the first meeting; that can scare some timid souls off. Meerely state the details for the next meeting and that you will be looking for some commitments after that meeting to be in writing.

2) A third meeing will then likely draw only committed souls with whom you can then form a sound, legal not-for-profit organization, select a name, have an attorney look over your articles of incorporation and a constitution and by-laws which will enable people to see your seriousness of purpose (you should draft a Mission Statement at this or the following meeting also), and suggest a slate of Officers to be discusses and voted at the fifth meeting.

3) Most people have very little time, so make as few demands upon their time outside of the meetings as possible, or you will have good will sorts who start drifting away. Be ready for the fact of life that in any group there are a core few who do 90% of the work, and scolding the others will only reduce your base of contributors.

You say you hate pushing and pulling others along, and also hate having someone less competent than you be voted into authority over you? Then make yourself a one man show by offering your services as Funds Rasiser or Consultant in the Restoration of the Kings. I wish I could say that you will have an easy road of it, but reality and history say otherwise, so be sure of why you are into it, and just how much time you can take from home and job to accomplish it. In any case, BEST WISHES from one too far away to help.

Dear Jim:
Thank you for the advice. I'm only sorry that you are too far away to help!

As I explained in my last few messages, billionaire real estate developers have been and are still buying up the property surrounding Loew's Kings and the NYC Economic Development Corp will be issuing an RFP (Request For Proposal) in April or May, 2005. The Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is a strong advocate for the restoration of the Kings and for creating the Kings County Center For The Performing Arts.

At this point, it would have been nice to form a committee, etc. But I recognize that billionaires have a lot more say in the matter. If you read back on my comments regarding Sears Flatbush; the ABC TV (owned by Disney) and TV shows like 'Extreme Make- Over: Home Edition (sponsored by Sears); History Channel's 'Make Over A Movie Palace' (owned by Disney) that was advertised on this web site and Disney's long term partnership with Clear Channel Entertainment--starting with their failed bid for the Radio City Music Hall but eventually the two giants made their moves on Times Square. Disney took the New Amsterdam and Clear Channel took over The Ford Center for The Performing Arts; Disney celebrating 'Radio Disney' at Clear Channel Theaters around the USA. and Disney's regional LIVE entertainment --It is plain to see that these guys may have an interest in the Kings. As you also know, I have gotten to big time brass at those companies and pushed the idea!

So, let's hope for the best. In the meantime, I won't quit!
Bruce1

Dear Jim:
Thank you for the advice. I'm only sorry that you are too far away to help!

As I explained in my last few messages, the billionaire real estate developers have been and are still buying up much of the property surrounding Loew's Kings and the NYC Economic Development Corp will be issuing an RFP (Request For Proposal) in April or May, 2005. The Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is a strong advocate for the restoration of the Kings and for creating the Kings County Center For The Performing Arts.


At this point, it would have been nice to form a committee, etc. But I recognize that billionaires have a lot more say in the matter. If you read back on my comments regarding Sears Flatbush; the ABC TV (owned by Disney) and TV shows like 'Extreme Make- Over: Home Edition (sponsored by Sears); History Channel's 'Make Over A Movie Palace' (owned by Disney) that was advertised on this web site and Disney's long term partnership with Clear Channel Entertainment--starting with their failed bid for the Radio City Music Hall but eventually the two giants made their moves on Times Square. Disney took the New Amsterdam and Clear Channel took over The Ford Center for The Performing Arts; Disney celebrating 'Radio Disney' at Clear Channel Theaters around the USA. and Disney's regional LIVE entertainment --It is plain to see that these guys may have an interest in the Kings. As you also know, I have gotten to big time brass at those companies and pushed the idea!

So, let's hope for the best. In the meantime, I won't quit!
Bruce1

Jim Rankin, Bruce 1, et all, when do we start? I am ready, are you?

Dear Theaterat:
Here's my e-mail, let's get together!

thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

Bruce 1. I currently wrote to the Loews Jersey asking the process that they used to bring their theater back to life. I also plan to speak to a local community leader in Bay Ridge for some advice. By what I see on this entry alone, there seems to be much interest on this grand old theater that has stood like a sleeping giant for more than 25 years. I am sure that something is going on. To let it be destroyed will be tantamount to the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn!A jpurney of a thousand miles starts with a single step.Hopefully that single step will start soon.

Well, then let's get going. You may want to try and get a corporation's cooperation.

Bruce1 I'm in.

Dear Theaterat,
Thanks for the interest. If you want to get together, just let me know!
Bruce1

Hey, what about getting together with me? I'm basically the one that suggested someone on this page join the group.

Bruce 1 and Gustavelifting....Lets see what the reply from the Jersey theater is. If we can get enough people interested in this( this sight is a great place to start)Probably we can all meet locally in Brooklyn on the chosen day and kick some ideas around. It may lead to something or it may not. Anyway, we can say we tried.I guess there is always hope. I am somewhat busy with scheduling events and family matters for the next few weeks, but I do intend to look into this matter further.

Theaterat and Gustav,
I'm not leaving anyone out, just a bit 'down' over the lack of people who are actually motivated.

Aren't there already groups that have been working on this for the past decades? What are they up to?

that's the one we're talking about. Wanna join?

Bruce, Gustave, Saps....Does anybody know if the Kings has Landmark status? This may not re open the Kings( at the moment) but at least it will save it from any "renovations" in the future.The Landmark and Preservation Society is an elite group that uses the rather demeaning term "outerboros" to describe neighborhoods out of Manhattan, but it is worth a try.

I caught "Memoirs of a Movie Palace" at the Donnell Library on Jan. 29, 2004. It is worth seeing.

Too bad about this theatre. Marty Markowitz, the Brooklyn Borough President, doesn't have any real power, but is awful energetic and is passionate about everything Brooklyn.

My beef is how can Loew's or any other profit-making company just abandon these buildings. Aren't they responsible for the upkeep? They can essentially just walk away from a building and leave it to rot or leave it to the taxpayers to figure out how to maintain it/demolish it?

Didn't Paul Allen restore one of these picture palaces in Portland or Seattle? What is needed is a Brooklyn version of Paul Allen.

The former Loews Valencia theater in Queens has landmark status even though it is a church. If you have the time you can try the New York Landmarks and Preservation Society at NYC Landmarks and Preservation Society. org. Be prepared to do a LOT of Link Surfing!

Yes, Paul Allen restored the 1963 vintage Seattle Cinerama Theatre. A full restoration of the Kings would cost much more than the cost of the Seattle Cinerama, when your dealing with the type of theatre.
I'm a for a full restoration of the theatre. I'm here in Manhattan.

"hardbop" says: "My beef is how can Loew's or any other profit-making company just abandon these buildings. Aren't they responsible for the upkeep? They can essentially just walk away from a building and leave it to rot or leave it to the taxpayers to figure out how to maintain it/demolish it?" Sad to say, what Loews did is perfectly legal in all the states, since the presumption of law is that if a property owner stops paying taxes, the state has the right to seize control of the property and sell it to offset the expense of the property to the public. Of course, that idea worked in rural farm society where land was sold, but in urban society, it is mostly the improvements (buildings) that are sold -- or as in the case of the KINGS -- they remain unsold. The owner gets the advantage of not being taxed on the property if the municipality seizes it, and yes, he can then just walk away. The municipality does usually place a lein upon the deed, and expects to recoup its losses both through a sale as well as anything that might come in via a lein. The trouble is, of course, that most potential buyers of so large a parcel and structure don't want either the lein or the cost of clearing the land --a very expensive proposition, especially with today's statutes regarding 'brown fields' cleanup responsibilities, so the land/improvements remain unsold and they become a burden to the city. Loews was not alone; millions of business use this tactic to divest themselves of something they cannot profitably sell, and the taxpayer is left with the burden. This is part of what some call 'Free Enterprise' which basically means that you are more 'Free' if you are rich like Loews. If you are a poorer individual, then don't expect such a benefit, since they city will then just come after you in court for back taxes, and then seize anything else you own to pay them!

The big money people have figured out a way to keep their other interests from being involved in land and property tax disputes by establishing blind corporations for their real estate. e.g. XXX Anywhere St. Corp., a company which would only exist for a specific address and the building(s) thereon. If it eventually proves to be a liability, they then can just walk away from it and their other assets cannot be touched. (and the corporation is dissolved, leaving them free to establish yet a new dummy company when they start another venture). Guess who picks up the tab for that every time.

Sam e.... Could it be US.. harbworking tax payers?

Unfortunately Jim, Loew's Corporation did not abandon the Loew's Kings, they sold it to a smaller theater operator who let it run into the ground and finally slip into the hands of the New York City Economic Development Corp.

Loews Corp is no longer owns theaters. They are no longer in the theater business. They have investments in many different field. When Sony Loews took over the theaters, it stopped using the apostrophe! So it was no longer Loew's, but LOEWS and it's now known as SONY LOEWS.

SONY LOEWS took over Cineplex Odeon and so it goes!

Im confused about the above post, I don't recall anyone but Loew's running the King's?

I think that the correct address for this theater is:

1027 Flatbush Avenue Brooklyn New York 11226

Block & Lot #: 05132 - 0018
Building Class: Theatre, Art Type More Than 400 Seats (J2)
School District: 17 map/schools
City Council District: 40
Police Precinct: 70 (Crime Statistics)
Political Contributions: search
BUILDING CHARACTERISTICS
Zoning C4-2
Building Size (F x D): 62.00ft x 268.42ft
Lot Size (F x D): 126.25ft x 291.33ft
Building Height: 21
Total Gross Area of Building:
Year Built: 1929
Historic District?: No
Corner Lot?: No
Has Garage?: No
Number of Floors: 5
# Units: -
FAR as built: 0.81
Allowable FAR: 3.40

TAX INFORMATION
Estimate 2005/2006 Taxes (est.): $0
Tax Billing Address:
Housing Preservation & Developement
Fl 7
100 Gold St
New York Ny 10038
Tax Class: 4
Tax Rate: 11.58%
Total Assessed Value: x $0
Annual Property Tax (est.): = $0
Quarterly Property Tax (est.): = $0
Monthly Property Tax (est.): = $0

MARKET VALUE1 HISTORY
Jun 01, 2005 $1,390,000
May 01, 2004 $1,390,000
Apr 01, 2003 $1,386,000
Mar 01, 2002 $1,320,000
Feb 01, 2001 $1,320,000
1 Market value obtain from the NYC Department of Finance

Now known as Loews Cineplex. See link: http://www.enjoytheshow.com/

This theater is closed. Maybe your thinking of the Loew's Kings Plaza 6 located in the Kings Plaza Mall.

Lostmemory, it seems that SAPS is stating the company name and not the name of the theater itself.

Now I understand. Thanks Gustavelifting. I'm thinking of shortening my name to just Lost. :)

Your welcome

I was shocked when I saw this! After a little detective work, the theater in question IS the Loews at Kings Plaza.

Theaterat;
I hate to tell you but you're wrong. The theater we are talking about here was constructed in 1929. Kings Plaza was constructed in the late 1960s. I was at the original theater in Kings Plaza, and, while it has a Loews now, it had a Century's when it was first built. The theater in question is located far from Jamaica Bay in the neighborhood of Flatbush. We are not talking about a presently operating Loews in Brooklyn, but one that has been dark, or closed since 1974. The theater we are talking about, if memory serves me correct, is at the intersection of Flatbush and Tilden Avenues, not Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U. It was never multiplexed either, and the one in Kings Plaza is a multiplex.

Gustav-you're right, except for the last picture show! The year was 1979 and not 1974.

The Century Kings Plaza opened in 1970. This opening, unfortunately, must have contributed a few years later to the demolition of the beautiful Century Marine Theater a few blocks away. The Marine was on Flatbush off Kings H'Way. I hope the Loew's Kings doesn't join the Marine and remains standing!

Gustavelifting...What I am talking about is the Cineplex mentioned by Saps. I know it was not the Kings, but when I checked the website, that pretty much confirmed it. And R>H...Bo you remember the Century Brook that was on Flatlands and Flatbush?This beautiful art deco theater was half a block away from the Marine.

There was a time when I was asked to serve on jury duty. It seems that someone slipped on a wet floor at Century's Kings Plaza. The lawyers wanted to know, 'Was there was any reason I couldn't serve? So, I explained that I was nuts about the classic theaters and was trying to Save the Loew's Kings. Well, that was enough to get me out of serving on the case.

Good for you Bruce I. Good for you! I once got out of jury duty, but for a different reason, but it was a "slip and fall" case. It did not happen in a theater, but that is another story.

Theaterat - I spent a lot of time in the Brook. I felt very bad that day in 1984 when I watched the seats being tossed into the back of a truck. I spent even more time in the Nostrand, yet another lost Century theater from the old neighborhood. Both buildings are still standing, but not functioning the way we'd like them to be.

Guys, I am going to get on your case. Stop making comments on this web site, and start doing something! Put a name on your organization, set a meeting time and don't quit. If you are consistent in your effort, you will achieve progress. Are you afraid of failure? Failure is the best teacher. Don't believe you can do it? Anyone can accomplish their goals if they keep trying. I firmly believe that buildings like this can once again become centers of the community. There is no doubt that you can create a viable organization and generate enthusiasm! Bruce...you seem to be the ringleader here. Set up a regular meeting at a regular location, and go. Even if you are the only one attending, it is a start. I play league basketball on Tuesdays. Once in a while we are short-handed at the beginning of an early game, because of work schedules. We don't forfeit the game when we have to play five on four...we go out there and play our guts out. You are short-handed right now. Go and play your guts out!

To: Life's too short
I have been the only attendee for quite a while and that hasn't stopped me yet. Besides, when I have asked for people interested in forming a group, I get no response. Then if I something looks like a response, nobody gets specific. A few people have made suggestions, but even for them, they don't seem to be available (time or distance) for a meeting.

But even if nobody wants to meet, that doesn't mean someone can't do something on their own. If somebody has a way of getting this theater back in business. i.e. Contact a theater operator & tell them about the NYC Economic Development Corp's Request For Proposal that will be issued this or next month. Not one person has actually reported any concrete move they have made.

Life---I have been trying to save this theater since 1987 and if you're a regular reader of this message board, you can see what I have tried to accomplish. Even when I announced that my TV show would feature the Kings on specific times and channels throughout the metro area, not one person watched it. Not one person responded!

But in the meantime, I will keep trying.

What do you all think? Should there be another documentary about the Kings? I do video documentaries as a sideline to my duties as a student. I think it would make a great subject for another documentary.

Gustave, you have an excellent idea; a new documentary is just what the doctor ordered! Of course, it would have to be more than a camera tour of the place today. Only true visionaries will see what can be done with all that ruin. Likely the Theatre Historical Soc. would allow you to buy opening day photos from them which you could pan and zoom into to create a sort of tour at its opening. A few shots of today inserted next to them would show what was and could be again. An interview with Bruce might instill the spirit that is needed, and an appropriate city official (one NOT running for election) interviewed who believes in the structure's potential to Brooklyn, would be good to include. While there are theatre historians who could comment on its historical position vis-a-vis other movie palaces, that might only interest historians, but your purpose would be to produce a promotional for today, to interest potential buyers/users. If you know of local groups that need a performing space, you might interview them. If someone at your school is good at making simple models, perhaps you can persuade him to make up some of areas of the theatre adapted to new uses (but preferably in a quasi theatrical vein -- we don't want another gymnasium a la the Brooklyn Paramount). You would film that model, and perhaps computer animate some people on stage, or the like.

We who love theatres tend to be very visual naturally; money men tend not to be = you have to show them exactly what you mean. Maybe you and Bruce can be the first to meet about this, and maybe invite the person writing up the RFP to be issued to see what could go into such a documentary. Would the local PBS stations be interested in showing such? Maybe wise to ask them about it in advance. And the local chamber of commerce or the Flatbush Business Advancement Association would be willing to help and give advice -- maybe even donations to the documentary (now don't you wish you had incorporated?!) I know it is easy for me to talk from a thousand miles away, but I believe that there is some merit to my suggestions. Best Wishes to you all in any case.

Thanks Jim;
I am considering it for either now or in the near future.

Dear Jim,
I have already done at least 6 half hour episodes about the Loew's Kings. They have been shown throughout Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and Nassau County, Long Island.

In those shows, I have toured the interior of the theater, interviewed restoration specialists: (ornate plaster and decorative painting), former patrons and the the theater's manager, candy matron, an usher from the 70's and two ushers from the 1930's!

At this time, the building's owner: NYC is not allowing anyone access inside.

Your efforts listed here are impressive, Bruce, and I am sure that all are convinced of your dedication and earnestness. I did not know that your work was so extensive, but unless I somehow missed it in the wealth of comments previously, you did not enumerate your shows, nor did you state where one could buy a video of one or all of them. Do you think that if you made them available that it might spur more people to think about the great KINGS? If your station does not object, perhaps you could dup DVDs of them on an individual request basis for only the cost of materials and shipping. I know that as an out-of-towner this would be the only way I could see them. It is a shame that so much work should sit on some shelf at the station with perhaps little chance of ever being seen again. Don't you think they would make good promotional tools for the theatre? If so, I call upon you to make them available.

Bruce 1;
It may be a good idea for you to make them available to the general public. You can also make them into one giant video. A little idea, celebrities go a long way, one should emphasize on the stars that started there. Right now my little hobby is one on the 64-65 World's Fair, and I'm hopeful to get stars from the past on it. In other words, vintage footage of stars. I know you work in television, and you would have a better idea of what to do. I just figured I would make a suggestion. When I got my television degree it was said that stars sell, and you need something that sells to get the idea across.

Gustevelifting, Bruce 1, andJim Rankin.....Lets try to find a list of prominent stars who came from Brooklyn it should not be too hard and inform them on the interest that seems to be growing on the Kings.If stars do sell, what can be a better way to get the idea across that a group that cares wants to preserve a bit of theater and Brooklyn history?Hard to believe that the 4th largest city in America has less than 12 operating theaters with the Fortway about to close soon.

Theaterat has a good idea, BUT it must FOLLOW, not preceed, the forming of a not-for-profit corporation that is legally able to collect funds towards the publicity and restoration of the KINGS. Any celebrity will have their mail screened by a service looking for any type of handouts (they reportedly get dozens of such each day) so they will never see the letter unless it (1) is on the letterhead of a registered 501c3 (tax exempt) entity; and (2) it has some details of their association with the KINGS along with some photo of them there that will jog their memories. You are appealing to two points: (1) Their interest, one presumes, in their own histories, and (2) in Historic Preservaton of a theatre. It may not be wise to include photos of its present condition, since many could not imagine it ever returning from its present state. Any such solicitation of their interest must not look juvenile or amateurish, but neither should it look glossy as from a professional funds raiser.

While a letter *may* get through to them, don't count on it for too much. I remember back in the early 80s when the St. Louis FOX was planning restoration and they wrote to Bob Hope who had appeared there, and he eventually wrote back without a check, that he thinks he still has a trunk there, and he wishes them well on their efforts, but regrets that all his funds are tied up for the foreseeable future. When he died, his estate was reportedly worth almost a half billion dollars, so I doubt it was a shortage of funds in his case. Remember the old saying of the rich: 'You don't stay rich by spending too much money.' You could offer them a plaque on the wall or suchlike, but they already have all the fame they need, so make this a price-point offer, not a guarantee. You might say, while any amount over $100 is deeply appreciated, your generosity will be better memorialized by a bronze plaque for any donation in excess of $10,000. In this way you make it clear that a $20 'pat-on-the-head-and-go-away' donation is not encouraged. To get their name behind it and a larger donation, you will have to enclose photos of it as it was, a detailed plan to restore it, a letter from the city showing both their ownership and their support for its restoration (enclose the RFP?). Tell them that you are NOT asking for their time, only a brief voice over that can be recorded at or near their home, to be broadcast behind a photo of them. Any live action theatre's management in your area will have a directory sold only to them with the current star's home address or that of their agent. Remember, that going through their agent may not help, since the agent is in the business of sniffing out any PROFITABLE enterprise for them (and for the agent's 10%!), so it is best to go to them directly if possible. If I receive your letterhead in the mail with your 501c3 registration on it, as well as any local and state registrations required, I will know that a legitimate group exists, and will be willing to write up a solicitation letter for you. There is not much more I can do from a thousand miles away. Best Wishes.

I have to commend you Bruce1 for all the dedication to the Loew's Kings. I am sorry you are not getting the support I think you deserve.Is it because Brooklyn lives in the shadow of Manhattan? Of all the 30 theatres I toured in New York City a few years ago Loew's Kings by far was my favorite. Even in its current state of faded elegance it took my breath away.Maybe someone with a little influence could get Turner Classic Movies to due a series on historic movie palaces and include the Kings, so it would get the exposure it deserves.brucec

http://www.disassociate.com/lost_big_thumb03.html

Some interesting photos of the movie palaces of Brooklyn including the Kings.

Is the Loews Pitkin in there as well? It's not labeled but it look like it...

Bruce 1;
I just reread an E-Mail I received in March. I don't know why I didn't mention it before, but I recently thought it may help. These groups are interested in restoration of old structures;

http://www.histpreserv.com/1/
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/lpc/html/grant/home.html
http://salwen.com/synch.html
http://www.preserve.org/

C Connolly...Interesting group of former theaters in web entry. Enjoyed seeing them. Maybe someday{when I figure out how to use my digital camera) I'll post mine. Thanks

It appears that I gave you an undeserved tongue lashing, Bruce.

I did not read all of Jim Rankin's message about creating a 501c3. But, that seems like an good step to take. Why not do this? I have never created a business entity myself. But, the impression I get is that it is a matter of filing some forms...maybe paying a small fee or two to the government.

It seems to me that a few people have made suggestions as to what should be done to help save the Loew's Kings. i.e. Gustavlifting wants to make a documentary, Gustavlifting wants to do a combined effort to save the Kings and the Brooklyn Paramount, Gustavlifting has compiled a list of web sites on historic preservation/getting grants, etc., other well meaning people post 'theatre building' that have been converted to supermarkets, still others think 'we' or 'me' should file for a 501c3, but...IF you notice, nobody goes on line and says that THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING. Instead of all the folks with suggestions (exception: Jim Rankin-who doesn't even live here in NY) how come NOBODY goes out and DOES anything?? HOW COME nobody actually watched my TV episodes on the Kings? How come nobody has called or written to newspapers, real estate developers, concert promoters? How come? Or how about the suggestion of contacting stars that may have appeared or even worked at the Loew's Kings and trying to enlist their interest? HOW COME nobody actually reports DOING A THING other than making the suggestion?

If I have offended anyone, perhaps it will motivate you to do more than write suggestions!

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Bruce 1.... You have Not offended me! I know that sometimes a lot of ideas get kicked around. Some are good, some are not too good, but they are ideas that are worth looking at. The filing of the so-called 501 c3 form may be a start. I got no response from the Jersey yet. This Saturday April 50th, I will be at a ship modelers conference and show in Conn. One our members is a lawyer. I WILL ask him about what will be necessary to get the ball rolling. Also, if a group does ever get started, what will they {we) call ourselves? Does anybody have a design for a letterhead? If we do get a group together, where can we meet? Etc etc etc.Jim Rankin does raise several points to condsider in his April 21th entry. It will not be easy. By the way, when can I catch your shows? I do not have cable.

Bruce1 - I live in Manhattan and have Time Warner cable. I'd love to see your shows on the Kings. Any chance they will be shown here? If so, pls let me know when. Thanks--

Bruce 1;
I have been working to find information on the Kings. You will also note that on my site, there is a pagea about the Kings with your E-Mail (which you permitted me to do). The particular page is http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm and I hope I wrote it right.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe we should meet

Bruce 1;
maybe I should also tell you that I suggested these sites because they are people interested in restoration of old buildings. There is some work I have been doing.

TGustavelifting... Has anybody ACTUALLY formed a group to look into the possibilities of actually doing something. Bruce 1 right. Everybody seems to have a sugestion,If anybody can actually figure out the 1st step, prehaps that will lead up to something. Lets not forget the tremendous ammount of money this project will require. It still will be a lot less costly than building a stadium over the West Side railyards, and besides the theater is already built.A friend of mine says that I am dreaming. I would like to prove him wrong.

Theaterrat;
Bruce 1 has his E-Mail, which he has already given on this page is thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

Some years ago, there was a group trying to save Loew's Kings. It may have even collected money from the public to help in that effort. Whatever became of it?

Warren.... Thats the 64dollar question!

The group was started by someone I showed this page. If you use the E-Mail above you will contact him. Furthermore the webpage I mentioned before has the page about it. It is part of a main New York Nostalgia Page called the Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Website, which has its url at http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu and that should take you to the index. It's a fairly large site.

Dear Warren and Theaterat,
Ever since 1987, my group, 'Save The Kings' has been the ONLY group, to my knowledge, that has ever tried to Save The Kings! We have never asked anyone for a nickel.

Bruce 1;
Did you ever get a certificate of incorporation from New York State? In order to start a not for profit you need this. It may be a good idea to try and solicit funds for the restoration. Not necessarily to restore the theater, but to inform people of the group. This way you can buy more flyers and such. Also, you can do yardsales. That's what they do with the Raymond Theater in Pasadena, California.

It is possible to collect funds without incorporation, but it is risky. IF in future someone should become dissatisfied as to your use of the funds they donated --even an amount as small as one dollar-- they could sue you and everyone in your group personally for fraud. One's personal financial liability could be great, considering both actual and punitive damages assessed by an unsympathetic court. With incorporation as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT, your personal funds would not normally be liable to seizure in case of such as embezellment unknown to you, and your literature would carry a notice that you are so incorporated and that therefore the funds would be accounted for and not put into your personal bank account. The disposition of the proceeds of a corporation must be documented according to law, but the actual work is small for any legitimate group. Your Treasurer should be a person of integrity who knows elementary bookeeping and can be depended upon to be dilligent about recording all income and payments and keeping the files of receipts of such. Possibly your management at your cable station, Bruce1, will allow you to ask their attorney for advice, without cost to you. Best Wishes.

Dear Jim,
Consistently, you come up with worthwhile ideas and a game plan, however I still see everyone else giving advice and not following through with any of THEIR OWN IDEAS. If anyone should come up with the proper way to 'get a certificate of incorporation,' let's see them do it!

Let's call this an exercise in futility! Let's recognize that I do not want to do everything myself, what I did want was people to band together, divide responsibilites and actually try to accomplish this, so what do I get? I get the well meaning, but the do nothing crowd.

It seems that every time I bitch and moan, the flow of constructive suggestions begins anew...BUT, not once, have I see anyone who actually made the slightest effort to accomplish anything. All they do is suggest what could be done. (as long as they don't have to lift a finger!)

So, if the Loew's Kings can be saved, it will be by some well-meaning billionaire who sees potential of the third largest performance space in the City of New York. It will not be the result of this forum.

Not once has anybody written that they have 'begun the process of landmarking, begun the process of incorporation as a Non-Profit, written or called anyone for anything.

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Dear Jim,
Consistently, you come up with worthwhile ideas and a game plan, however I still see everyone else giving advice and not following through with any of THEIR OWN IDEAS. If anyone should come up with the proper way to 'get a certificate of incorporation,' let's see them do it!

Let's call this an exercise in futility! Let's recognize that I do not want to do everything myself, what I did want was people to band together, divide responsibilites and actually try to accomplish this, so what do I get? I get the well meaning, but the do nothing crowd.

It seems that every time I bitch and moan, the flow of constructive suggestions begins anew...BUT, not once, have I see anyone who actually made the slightest effort to accomplish anything. All they do is suggest what could be done. (as long as they don't have to lift a finger!)

So, if the Loew's Kings can be saved, it will be by some well-meaning billionaire who sees potential of the third largest performance space in the City of New York. It will not be the result of this forum.

Not once has anybody written that they have 'begun the process of landmarking, begun the process of incorporation as a Non-Profit, written or called anyone for anything.

Best Regards,
Bruce1

Bruce,

I would love to throw my efforts behind your cause. But, I am currently President of my high school alumni association, Captain of our league basketball team, and bass player for a local rock group...all of this on top of a demanding job. Offering you my help would be an empty gesture, as I would probably never follow through on anything in a timely manner.

That being said, you mentioned writing a letter. I can certainly accomplish that at some point in the coming month. Who would I send it to?

You made reference to people at a distance. I think anybody who is willing to help can help. I am in Chicago. But, if I had the time to contribute, you would be well aware of my efforts. Being halfway across the country is no excuse for not lending a hand!

Last, I think it is critical to incorporate. How can you gather funds if you are not official? What are you going to tell people? "Yes...the money is being held in a savings account with my name on it." I don't think that incorporating is a terribly painful process. Jim seems familiar. Perhaps he would volunteer to fill out the initial paperwork.

Life's too short to spend talking about things without intelligent action! Let's get moving!

Best regards,

Eric Ellis

Life'stooshort;
Why not use the band to create funds? If you perform then you can give the concert money to the cause.

Bruce1;
If you want to be the head of this corporation then you have to sign the certificate. We can't do that for you on this end. I have a paralegal certificate, that has to be done by the corporate head.

Jim Rankin;
You give some pretty good advice there.

Much as I would like to help with such as letters of support, my filling out legal documents for the state of New York is even more unlikely than doing it for my resident state of Wisconsin, since the statute requirements for every state are different and I am not in the legal profession in any way. LifesTooShort is right that there must be a legal entity to refer to in any letters Bruce1 might like to see others write, else whom do we refer people to in our letters of encouragement for preservation? Merely stating that we think the KINGS is valuable and should be preserved is not enough; people want to know what they should do and what we are asking for. Money? If so, to whom do they send it and what will it be used for? Their time? Where and how are they to spend that time? Bruce1's efforts "since 1987" to raise the public conscience in the matter are admirable, but it takes more than public sympathy and petitions delivered to the city to cause something of this scale to happen.

I do not have the resources to travel to New York city and carry a picket sign in front of the KINGS with a 'Save This Theatre' message, and I don't think it would do that much good if I did do such. I can well understand if Bruce1 is not comfortable taking on the task of being the head of a legal corporation --even if it is only a handful of people-- since life is short and no doubt, full for him too. Perhaps he is at the point in his life where he frankly feels that others should pick up the 'torch' if it is to ever illuminate this issue throughout New York. Of course, with the city's RFP about to come out, maybe we all should wait to see its results at least for a few months after its issuance or date of withdrawl, if any. But, then again, if it receives no desireable respose, it could be taken by the 'movers and shakers' that there is no real public sympathy for this theatre, closed lo, these many years now.

Perhaps a group of New Yorkers standing in front of the doors waving the RFP in their hands before TV cameras invited from all stations, would get public attention, especially if giant photos of it in original state could back the 'demonstrators', or hand-outs of 8x10s of it as it appeared at opening could be given to reporters (they are always looking for visuals). I know that your station would like to keep such an event an exclusive, Bruce, but if you really want full public backing, you will have to involve as many people as possible, including those who do not view your cable station. If you can get a crowd in front of the theatre as your 'demonstration' is speaking before the camera, that will make the 'people' scene that the TV stations look for. Of course, if no one in the area is willing to appear there with you, I think you had best put your good talents to other causes. Nothing is more pathetic than the image of a lone individual standing in front of a building being demolished and saying to reporters "I wish I could have saved it." Best Wishes!

Bruce 1;
I recall reading about you before our first E-Mail contact. My guess is that you will probably know people at other stations having been around broadcasting as long as you have. If you speak to them, maybe they will be willing to interview you. I'm getting a new car. My old one would not make it from exit 62 on the Long Island Expressway to Brooklyn. I may be able to go in and take some stills and video of the Kings at present. However, you are the one who is involved professionally in the media. My cameras may be old, but I'm willing to help.

Again, thank you for all the advice. But I still believe that if there are people who actually want to help, then they should be willing to have a meeting. Without a meeting, there can be no personal involvment! I disagree with Jim that first there must be the establishment of a Non-Profit Org. If there is no interest, if nobody even wants to meet face to face, what is the value of an organization? If nobody wants to have a meeting, how can we divide into those committees, come up with a plan, etc.

I don't think that raising the money is the answer. I have written extensively about all those big billionaires that have the money. Now when the RFP is issued, we'll find out if they have any interest in either saving the Kings or replacing it.

As far as writing letters, I don't think that we have to be incorporated to write letters.

When it comes to carrying a picket sign in front of the theater, I do agree with Jim. I don't intend to be the only one standing there! As far as getting media attention, (from other than my own show) I can tell you that it's not an easy thing to accomplish. However, I will ask the Borough President if he would be willing to throw a press conference in front of the Loew's Kings? Maybe he would like to offer a proclomation 'thanking' the Kings for it's long history and it's potential in entertaining the people of Brooklyn.

At this point, I would again like to thank those 'out of town' contributors for their suggestions. I have another thought, if you live in Chicago, maybe you could contact the owners of the 'Chicago' theater, tell them about the Loew's Kings and ask if they might want to answer the NYC RFP? Or perhaps the owners of the St. Louis FOX or the Detroit FOX or the Atlanta FOX or any other saved house!

Let me just repeat, if you want to make a phone call or write a letter to a major real estate developer or theatre operator, you don't have to have a non-profit certificate. If you contact the person who is responsible for real estate acquisition, who knows maybe they would have interest?

Again, Jim talks about having giant blow up photographs of the Kings for a media event. That is something that could be done or some of my own footage can be shared with the media. Maybe I will make the 'press conference' suggestion to the Borough President?

Lastly, if that RFP will decide the fate then it's probably too late to incorporate as a non-profit. At this point, it's more important to find the developer who believes the theatre should be saved!

Bruce 1;
Name the time and place and I will be there. If you wish to only do so be e-mail please say so on this page. Some people don't want to place their schedule in a public forum while others do. I can tell you right now the easiest time for me will be after May 31. This way I am sure my classes and tests are over.

Thanks Gustav! Hopefully, others will want to join us for that meeting.

In the meantime, I have talked to the Borough President's people and they think a 'press conference' in front of the Loew's Kings is an idea of merit. Let's hope there is a speedy follow up.

Everybody listen up! We need to get together somehow. I am willing to take the risk of meeting someone from the internet for this. Outside of this forum and E-Mail, Bruce 1 and I only spoke on the phone. I'm willing to possibly take the risk of meeting him. Are there any other takers?

Bruce, Gustavelifting....I have been told that a local Flatbush civic and business group may be interested. There is also another Brooklyn based group that may be of help.I was also told to have a statement of "intent"that is a statement on just exactly what purposes the theater will be used for.We also heed a name with a letterhead to show that we are serious and for credibility purposes.We also need a name for our group, if it ever gets off the ground.I was told that before it goes any further, a core group needs to be formed, and a meeting schedule needs to be worked out. Also, it will not hurt to inform local historic societies such as the Broojklyn Historic Society of our efforts.In the near future, corporation papers can be filed.Please inform me by E mail if a meeting schedule can be arranged. You are right, its time to get off the "talking" stage and start the "action" stage. I live in Brooklyn, and you have all my support.

Good thinking theaterat. Good thinking.

I would like to help save the Loew's Kings as well, you can contact me on my member info page. I've actually met Bruce in person at the Brooklyn Historical Society Fair a few years back, he is a really great guy committed to saving the Loew's Kings.

What if we contacted other societies? Who would be the best to bring into the fold? I believe the Theater Historical Society is already in.

Theaterfan, Gustavelifting, Bruce 1....Been doing some research on the Landmark process. The LPC law requires that "A potential landmark must be at least 30 years old and must posess a special character or special historical, aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage. or cultural characteristic of the city, state or nation". Intend to go to the Brooklyn branch within a week.

Theaterat,

Of the four Loew's Wonder theatres in NYC, the Valencia in Queens & the Paradise in the Bronx both have landmark designation status. I think for the Paradise it may only include the terra cotta facade, because it was quaded at one point. Both the Kings and Valencia were never multiplexed, I hope this fact works in our favour.

Theaterat/ Theaterfan
I did research and some Rapp and Rapp Theaters are on the National Register for their architecture. That chances for the Kings getting landmark status are two to one.

The landmarking process can take time and may even discourage real estate developers from getting involved and answering the Request For Proposal. However, having that MEETING, getting things out in the open and making plans that can and should be done.

Theatrefan is right, I am a great guy!
So let's get this show on the road! As I recently reported, the Brooklyn Borough President liked the idea of setting up a press conference to talk up the potential of revitalizing the Loew's Kings.

Now, as far as the potentially bad news...Clear Channel Entertainment has been a loser for the Clear Channel Corporation and they will not be expanding their theater operations. Hopefully, other major operators can be found. Again, I suggested getting in touch with the people who run the Atlanta FOX, St. Louis FOX, Detroit FOX, Chicago Theater, etc. Perhaps they would want another house?

thats.brooklyn@verizon.net (Let's have a meeting!)

Bruce 1;
What about the Loews Jersey? Do you think that would be a good idea? They are another "wonder theater" and restored to operation.

Yes, Gustav. Why don't you contact them? They have already carted off a projector and some seats from the Loew's Kings!

Bruce 1 abd Gustavelifting...I wrote to the president of the Loews Jersey about 4 weeks ago to explain the situation. I even included a SASE< but I have yet to get a response. I will keep you posted on all that transpires in the event that I do get a reply.

Bruce,

How where they able to cart stuff out of there, I thought currently NYC EDC is in charge of what happens to the Loew's Kings?

Theaterfan....This probably happened several years ago, before the NYC EDC took charge of the Kings

Guys;
I don't think that now is the time to look at vandalism happened in the past. We need to look at the Kings's Future. What are we to do with it if and when it reopens, and I believe it will reopen? Also, how do we get to the reopening phase?

Bruce 1;
You may want to do a theater search on this site for the Raymond Theater in Pasadena. Their url is listed on the page. I passed your on to them, but I don't think they got in touch over the passed few months since. There is a California Promoter who may be interested in our idea.

Gustav--nobody from the Raymond ever got in touch. Please try them again!

Theaterat--"Theate-Rat"?? Is that how you got your 'handle'? Well, fear not there are no rats in the Loew's Kings! There's nothing there to eat. However, some years ago, I do recall hearing a rustling sound and that's when we threw a projector reel. At the time, homeless people were hiding out, so who knows it might have been them. These guys did manage to steal some sconces and the brass banister and even a large swath of carpet from the mezzanine. (Probably was used to carpet their little shack just behind the theater.) All of the above happened DURING EDC's watch!!!

I've been thinking about trying to get the theater landmarked, but can't decide if that's a good idea or not. If we attempt to do this, could that totally discourage any developer?

Generally, it is beneficial to get landmark status, even though that almost never preserves much beyond ORIGINAL exterior. Landmarking can at least stop the quick buck guys who buy an historic structure, and then quickly resell it to someone who has no intention to preserve it, but intends to demolish it to build something else. For what protections one can depend upon with landmarking, one must consult one's Historic Preservation officer at the state house, a real estate attorney, or the League of Historic American Theatres for information relative to one's own state's laws, since the federal and local laws are administered under the state's.

The only downside to landmarking is that many buyers are really interested in the potential land value of the property and want the option to remodel or demolish as they wish in future, so will not buy a landmarked property. But would we want them to own such a landmark worthy structure? Landmarking also shows potential buyers that the property is considered worthy by experts and the public alike, and many money men wouldn't know artistic or historic significance if it came up and bit them; they need to be guided by such as Landmark Designation to see where they can put their money and thereby buy some public stature. Many money men already own dozens of properties, but they want the 'feather in their cap' of being known for also owning a prestegious structure worthy of being designated a landmark, and promoters of a landmark must be willing to allow the change of name to such as 'money man's theatre' or whatever his name is, to entice such large egos to invest in a theatre. For example, if Donald Trump were to be invited, one would have to expect to massage his ego by allowing him to name it the TRUMP THEATRE. You cannot expect big money to be humble in this country where money is god and king.

Bruce1, Jim Rankin,... Since there is nothing yet, landmarking seems like at least one option to save this theater. Having it being used as an arts center, that is having community theater, lectures, concerts, revivals of classic films and the like are ideas that must be considered. These need to be discussed at a meeting. I have mentioned the Loewa Jersey as a reference point. This "wonder theater" was saved by community action and preservationists. I have written to the president of the Jersey explaining to her that a similiar effort may begin in Brooklyn, but I got no response.There may be interest on the part of community and local civic groups to back us, but, again a meeting must be held so a "battle plan" of some sort can be formed. I guess that if enough people..myself included can write to the presidents or other officers of "saved" theaters prehaps they can be of some assistance. Even if a big money man like Donald Trump does want to get involved-this seems highly unlikely- there is always the matter of ego.I realize that the situations and other considerations that saved classic theaters in other parts of the country are different from those in NY, but finding the proper channels and getting some form of organization are what WILL save the Kings.As I have said before, it is a shame that Brooklyn- the 4th largest city in America has less than 13 operating theaters.PS Bruce 1... My original handle was to be "THeaterati" but I messed it up and it came out as "Theaterat" I like the sound of it!

Theaterat: I believe that the masculine singular of 'theaterati' is Theaterato, and I beleive they would allow you to change to that if you wish.

Dear Jim,
If landmarking will do little more than protect the ORIGINAL exterior, big deal! My problem is that I have done so much homework and learned so much about what the developers are doing in the area of the Kings that this had allowed me to speculate what a developer might do?? Everyone who hears my logic, thinks I'm on the right track. However, what if I'm wrong? What if these developers are so greedy that they want the whole square block and don't care about an aging movie palace?

I have the right contacts, but perhaps they are not telling me what they're really thinking? Perhaps they have nefarious intentions? I just don't know, but what I do know is that the Brooklyn Water - front is red hot. Developers are developing every square inch. I also know that Inner-Brooklyn has been getting a major face lift and the Kings could be next! The surrounding neighborhood has been on the comeback for a number of years and the timing seems to be right, but then again, I'm not in the billionaires inner circle and I don't know what they are actually planning!

Just the same, one thing for sure, EDC is definitely making their preparations and preparing to put Loew's Kings back on the auction block-RFP and that will happen very soon!

Loew's Kings could become:
#1-The Kings County Center for the Performing Arts
#2-The Sears Flatbush Center for the Performing Arts
#3-The Trump Theater for the Performing Arts and Hair Club For Men Center
#4-The Streisand Center
#5-The Lords of Flatbush Center - starring Sylvester Stallone and Henry Winkler (They were both ushers at the Loew's Kings)
#6-The Ben Vereen Center - Ben's mother was a 'char' woman at the Kings
#7-Who know??? The Flatbush Outlet Mall and Discount Shlock Center

Proposals no.3 thru no. 7 ( especially no.3 and 4 } are absolutely terrifying!Boes Brooklyn REALLY need another schlock outlet center?Anyway Bruce 1, you show a good sense of humor!Think I will stick with "Theaterat".

I sense your pain and frustration, Bruce1; we all want to see it become a beautiful theatre once again, but, no, there are no guarantees, regardless of all the good will and effort you have put in. The reason I mention landmarking that **may** only preserve the exterior, is that it may likely discourage those who simply want to demolish or gut the interior, because demolition would be prohibited, and gutting or drastically altering the interior would likely entail changes to the facade also for structural reasons. Since this would be expensive to adapt a new interior to existing windows, steel, ornament, etc., a nefarious developer would be daunted by the expense involved since a theatre exterior is nothing like a factory, condos, or offices, for example. Thus your landmarking would not only show the merit of the building in the eyes of the good people who might restore it, but it would dim the appeal of the place in the eyes of those who only want to wreck it.

Theatrat: If you want input from the Jersey, I strongly suggest that you join their group and befriend a MAN at their meetings who seems able to guide you in the process of landmarking or rehabbing as they did the Jersey. The woman in charge may now see herself as too powerful and occupied with other matters to devote time to help you. If you can get a guy interested there, then perhaps he and some buddies will be willing to take a jaunt to Brooklyn to check out the KINGS and see what can be done, but they will likely expect you and
Bruce1 as well as Gustave and others to have met at least once before they will meet with you so that they can know just who they are talking to. If it turns out that more than one individual or group approaches the Friends of the Jersey, they may feel that their time is being wasted by too many unconnected people. You must meet and at least set up an informal group before anyone will take you seriously. I write in advocacy of movie palaces here in Milwaukee, but I have no influence upon local movers and shakers (money men) because I have no group behind me, no official standing. My advice is cheap, but money men want a realistic estimate as to what the return on their investment will be, or if they are independently wealthy, like the millionaire who bought the PABST THEATER here from the city in order to gain historic prestige, then such will buy prestige more than an investment, since theatres RARELY make lots of money and they are EXPENSIVE to keep up. Thus the appeal of the 'Friends of the KINGS' must be to money men who (1) adore theatres, or (2) seek a public scale project by which to buy adoration for themelves, though they would never put it that way.

Do you know your big wigs in the area well enough to have an intermidiary approach them? A good place to look is in the Directory of Foundations at the library which will give you their names, if not their addresses. Foundations are started by such men to avoid taxes, and also have a staff to shield the big wig from the many people who solicit money every day, so your approach to a Foundation may be rebuffed (especially if your approach is only emotional and lacking in required research and a sound re-use proposal), or they may end up giving you only a tiny fraction of what you need to redo the KINGS. Most foundations are now targeted to social causes, not architectural preservation, so carefully note the goals/causes of a foundation and approach them ONLY in harmony with what you perceive they want and will give to. Such a directory (there are several) will show to what causes a foundation has given, what their giving limits are in their fiscal year, what restrictions they have on their gifts, and how you are required to approach them. Realistically, very few such give more than a million to a single cause, and many much less, so they will be looking to see if you are approaching others to make up the difference to do what needs to be done. Few will give anything if it appears that Friends of the KINGS is unincorporated as a non-profit, has no realistic program at least suggested, no big names on their board, no special bank account in which they could deposit a foundation check, and the intention that just this one foundation should bear the entire multimillion cost of the restoration. Local charities may be able to advise you as to realistic contributors, but Friends of the JERSEY may not be a realistic help in this regard, since the laws of New Jersey may well be quite different than those of New York. Under the search term FOUNDATIONS DIRECTORY, www.Google.com lists some 3 million 'hits' and perhaps this will be of help to you. Best Wishes.

Bruce 1;
I will try to contact the Raymond Theatre again. By the way, maybe we should just call it the Brooklyn Kings Performing Arts Center. Of course I don't know, but if you put their name in some people may think you're pandering.

Guys;
Here is the latest on the Raymond. I contacted them, let's see what happens. Will they contact me back? That's the important question. If they don't, will any of you be willing to also try and contact them?

Since that posting moments ago I have E-Mailed other theaters that, according to this site, were designed by Rapp and Rapp. They were the Loew's Jersey, Al Ringling, and Adler Theaters. I will keep you posted.

Gustavelifting... Good luck on contacting the JERSEY. I did that 5 weeks ago by writingb to the president, but she never returned my letter. I even sent a SASE. I would like to give her name on line, but I am not sure if I should.I read Jim Rankins posting and he has some good ideas. I will try to contact the Raymond and the ST.George Paramount in Staten Island myself.Still ready for that meeting!

Well, I just got my new ride. I should be able to make it. The question is when will Bruce 1 be ready?

Good luck on your new ride Gustavelifting! Looking foward to meeting you( and Bruce 1 and others} if a meeting ever gets scheduled. By the way Gustavelifting, where do you live? I live in the Dyker Park section of Brooklyn, not too far from the Belt Parkway and Fort Hamilton.

I live in Holtsville, Long Island, LIE Exit 62

Theatrerat, You mention the Paramount and St George theatres on Staten Island. They are both listed on Cinema Treasures and I have made a few comments on both. The St.George has been beautifully resored and is currently working as a live show venue with classic movies planned for later on. As for the Paramount, sadly, I think it's a dead issue, it was sold recently to a developer who has plans that do not include saving it as a theatre. I recently visited the Paramount and was brought to tears by it's current condition. If you get a chance to see the St George, I think you will be pleased.

Vito....Was in Staten Island not too long ago. The theater I was refering to was in fact the ST. George, not the Paramount. Anyway it was open and they were getting ready for a recital or something. I asked the person at the door if I could go in and look around. They said "Sure, enjoy yourself". The theater was very impressive, and it seemed to be in good condition. It reminded me of a theater I was in in Chicago some years back( sorry, I forgot the name).Another perfect example of a "saved" theater, Staten Island is a better place due to it. This is a perfect example on how the great Loews Kings can be re developed!

We have a theater in Patchogue. After its restoration the town was restored around it.

Theaterat,I hope your visit was post December 2004, most of the work had been completed by then and the results are rather spectacular. The theatre celebrated it's 75th anniversary in December.
Visit the website at www.stgeorgetheatre.com

As far as a meeting, I will need names and phone numbers to arrange for a convenient time. They can be sent to thats.brooklyn@verizon.net

For those that missed it, the City Section of the Sunday NY Times featured an article with photograph of the St. George. Incredibly, the cost of restoration was one million dollars. Unfortunately, we'll not be able to restore the Loew's Kings without an extra $34 mm (give or take a few)

The St. George was never permitted to deteriorate to the extent of the Kings, which is why the cost of repairs has been "reasonable." It is also a smaller theatre than the Kings, and not as extravagant in decor. But I would not call it a full "restoration," since some of the work is not faithful to the original.

We may not have to be that faithful either. There may be some items that can't be found or repaired. However, close is better thatn nothing.

Absolutly, you do the best you can from old photos, blueprints,and speak with as many people as you can find who knew what how the theatre looked originaly,then you can go out there and save the ole girl. Warren is quite correct, the owners were very respectful of the theatre and kept an eye on their investment. I remember speaking with the owner before it was sold, and he spoke of the joy of owning what he described as a magnificent structure. The new owners have spent a lot of money and had many people helping to bring the theatre back to it's former self. I urge everyone who can go and see the theatre even if just to visit, bring the kids because they will may never see the likes of it again. LONG LIVE THE KINGS!

Yesterday's papers carried the story of the United Nations seeking a temporary (5 year minimum) home in Downtown Brooklyn. This brought to mind the need to house 2,700 employees that are now scattered around Manhattan and of course room/rooms suitable for the General Assembly.

So, I suggested that the U.N. consider the Brooklyn Paramount as home to the General Assembly. The adjoining buildings are of course owned by the same developer who plans to build the Nets Arena and the office/housing/shopping complex nearby. So, the U.N. could wind up occupying some of THAT new space. Who knows? Maybe Long Island Univerity has thought of reopening the Paramount as a theater, but if not, I would rather see it as the temporary home for the General Assembly than if it were cut up into classrooms.

However, when we stop to consider the accelerated pace of real estate development throughout Brooklyn (Yesterday, the NY City Council unanimously approved rezoning and development of the Williamsburg Waterfront), plus interest in the redevelopment of Coney Island is gaining strength, while the cruise ship industry makes ready to build piers on the Red Hook Waterfront and progress toward Brooklyn Bridge Park, etc. It's obvious real estate billionaires are profoundly interested in the revitalization of Brooklyn!!

Hopefully, they're thinking, as we're thinking about the revitalization of the Loew's Kings as THE KINGS COUNTY CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS.

I was thinking that we may want to get our feet wet with the Paramount then go to the Kings. You see, the Paramount is supposedly in better condition, and probably an easier restoration job. This would be practice for when we revitalize the Kings. Also, assmuming they both open, the two largest theaters in Brooklyn would not be in competition with each other, but working together for concert dates.

The Brooklyn Paramount is probably not in danger of being torn down, where as the Loew's Kings may face the wrecking ball. Therefore, my efforts remain with the Loew's Kings.

It is highly unlikely that the BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT would be torn down, since Long Island University enjoys using the many offices that front the theatre, a feature that has caused more than one movie palace to enjoy an extended life. If only the KINGS had had such a feature to help it survive in easily restorable condition. No, demolition is not impossible for either, but it would have been nice even for rehab purposes to have rental spaces to gain needed revenue. Is there any space on the land of the KINGS to build at least a small office/residential/commercial building? IF so, then such should also be mentioned prominently in any proposal for the theatre. Modern rehabs usually also want added stage depth and rehersal areas among other new space requirements; does the KINGS' site allow for this? Could an adjacent site be acquired in a package deal to allow for such expansion, a method used with many other rehabed/restored theatres? It is all about making the real estate deal attractive to investors!

I rarely find myself saying this because I don't go for this sort of thing, but should we form a picket line?

Aren't there some storefronts on either side of the entrance? They could be turned into offices easily.

Looks like I am going to be spending some time upgrading the Loew's Kings site if I can. Will the college let me into the site during finals week, I don't know. If this is true about the Kings Demolition, then the people need to know about it.

A recent discussion of Loew's Kings at www.brooklynboard.com brought up another problem that seems to mitigate against its revival. The Kings was said to be a long walk from any subway station, which would discourage people from traveling there, especially after dark. Is that true?

At this point, there are NO plans to tare down either the Loew's Kings or the Brooklyn Paramount. However, anything is possible!

Jim's logic regarding 'office space' at the Paramount, being a benefit, certainly makes sense. At Loew's Kings, there are adjacent store fronts and construction could create office, retail or even HOTEL space above the theater.

For Gustav to think that 3 store fronts with MAYBE a total of 5,000 square feet would be enough to create a meaningful block of office space---makes as much sense as picketing! If Gustav wants to picket, it's a free country...although, I have no interest in such folly.

As far as Warren's assertion regarding public transportation, that's true! However, it never stopped patrons from attending this palace in the past. Besides, the combined parking lots of Sears and the Ratner controlled lot( behind the Kings) can certainly handle the driving crowd. Not to mention the buses that go up and down Flatbush Avenue.

Regarding Bruce1's comment, yes, in the past, the lack of nearby subway service did not effect attendence. BUT I think this has to do with the fact that the majority of the patrons came from the immediate area (Flatbush) which was and is very densely populated.

If the Kings' venue is to be a performing arts center, a movie revival house (ala Loews Jersey) or a combo, this lack of easy transport will have an effect because it's sucess will rely on people coming from out of the area.

The Loew's Jersey are ideally situated because the Path is literally right next door.

Bruce 1 C Connoly There is a subway stop not too far from the Kings.Sorry, but I do not know what train it is. If parking is an issue,I am sure the sears and the Ratner parkimg lots will suffice. When I went to the Kings before I had a car or even a drivers license, it was adout a 30 to 40 minute bus ride.I never let that stop me from going!The destination was its own reward.

"I never let that stop me from going!The destination was its own reward. "

That's you and I and most people on this site. But the general population? It's iffy. And it's those people that are needed if a venue like The Kings is going to suceed.

The B & Q trains stop nearby on Church Ave., several blocks west of Flatbush Ave. In addition, the Flatbush Ave. bus line runs frequently from Cadman Plaza in B'klyn Heights in the north to either Kings Plaza or Veterans Ave. at the southern ends of the borough.

Maybe CConnolly is right! The Loew's Kings is not convenient to the Path and so, without further ado, let's forget our 'massive do nothing' campaign.

Oh come on Bruce 1 and Astynax;
There is someone from Long Island who believes in it. I also think that the whole transportation thing is outrageous. I went to Brooklyn College for a while. The Flatbush Avenue Bus passes the Long Island Railroad. I have been living on Long Island since 1974, and went to the college in the eighties. Sometimes I would take this bus to the Junction of Flatbush and Nostrand. It would pass the Kings. Furthermore, we have performing arts centers out here, and the transportation system, they say, is worse then the city's. There would be some walking distance from the Patchogue LIRR Station to the Patchogue Theatre for the Performing Arts, and the only other choice you would have is taxis. However, this theater, which was a vaudeville house that turned to movies before closing, reopened in the middle 1990s, and we are proud of it. The theater is also surrounded by parking and people usually ignore the "no theatre parking" signs to go there. The perceived lack of transportaion to the Kings is really a moot point if you consider that people can get there with public transportation. If people want to go there, they will go there. It all depends, really, on the entertainment we place in there. They say that if you build a better mousetrap they will come. I think all we have to do is build a better entertainment mousetrap and they will walk from the station or, park their cars in the lot despite some protest if any (then again, there may not be any protest). In short, lack of transportation does not mean lack of audience. It all depends on what's playing and not the number of walking steps. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

To everyone above in the last few postings...What if there was NO Path subway that stopped near the Jersey? What if there was NO parking ( at a lot or on the street?} Would that discourage people to go? Besides classic films, the Jersey has operas, concerts, independent film festivals, Afro American events, jazz, and many other features. The same venue would make the Kings viable as an entertainment center. Pickets outside the theater( thats so 1960s )would only discourage would be investors and big money people.

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers with my comment about the Kings and it's proximity (or lack of) to a subway. I was just trying to point out one of the obstacles that might limit it's appeal as a varied entertainment venue. There is nothing I would love more (well, yes there are...) than to see The Kings return.

But the comparison (I think) to the Jersey is valid. What were the variables that managed to make that venue come back as opposed to the Kings?

C Connoly.... As Hamlet would have said, "Aye, theres the rub".Maybe the variables in Jersey City were different than those of Flatbush, maybe they are not.Jersey City has made a "comeback" of sorte while Flatbush is set to comeback soon. Prehaps it will not be as gentrified as Jersey City, but with areas in Brooklyn such as Williamsburg, Red Hook, and Greenpoint emerging as desirable, even trendy areas, who knows? The BAM Rose cinema does feature "art" and foreign films, but, again this area{ downtown Brooklyn{ is closer to Manhattan than Flatbush.Bruce 1 is right. We all talk the good talk, but who is REALLY going to do something? I have a job and my schedule is very flexible, so I can use my somewhat limited knowledge to do my part. The whole trick of this seems to be contacting the right people and pitching this idea to them. But then again, who ARE the right people? As an arts center the uses can be many. What theater in Brooklyn has ever revived classic films? Seeing a great movie on the large screen has no comparison to watching the same film on video or DVD.I am sure that most of us who post entries on this theater all share a common love and respect for these great old palaces, but the sad part of it all is that too many people just do not care.

Hip Hip Horay for Gustavelifting!!! He has made some good points (and is no longer trying to push for a Multi-Theatre Comeback!!)

For all those fans of Magic Johnson, (the same guy that wanted to multiplex the Loew's Kings, one of the Loew's 'WONDER THEATRES' and destroy the lobby with sheet rocked drop ceilings, formica and masonite, has now turned on the Williamsburgh Savings Bank (the tallest building in Brooklyn) and swears he'll maintain all the ---architectural integrity of the building. In effect, the only detail still there is in the lobby and bank areas and that's where he plans to put his 'high end retail'. I wonder, how he plans to install the retail shops without destroying the integrity of one of the marble and mosaic 'WONDER BANKS'

On the positive side, he represents still another developer who has seen the possibilities of major change for Brooklyn. As Theaterat points out, Brooklyn may not be Jersey City, but it is seeing an unparalled development burst throughout it's neighborhoods ... and not just the waterfront! So, I still predict that 'Developers can be decent human beings...as long as they can make a buck!'

To Gustavelifting - You may have misunderstood my comment about transportation. My point is that with the nearby subways and the frequency and reliability of the Flatbush Ave. bus, transportation is not an issue. Particularly with the B41 bus, folks traveling from one end of the borough to another get to experience the entire Flatbush Ave. commercial strip, a major plus for bringing back the Kings.

Well that's what you get when you look at urban problems from a suburban perspective. I may live on Long Island (even though some people want me to move to another called Staten), but you can take the boy out of Brooklyn, but you can't take Brooklyn out of the boy.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO HAVE THAT MEETING? I suggested this site to Bruce 1 because I thought we could help! We have a bunch of positive things on the location as a business. Me, I even plan to come from Holtsville, Long Island to help! I may be doing it in my new classic 1975 Caprice. HOWEVER, WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER! We need to decide where to meet. We have a good business site, which is to say an excellent site for what we want to do.

Let's meet in front of the Loew's Kings, no picketing, just let's meet!

How about some time in June?

OK

I will check with my family about the best time. I'M ALSO WONDERING WHEN SOMEONE ELSE WILL JOIN US! WE NEED PEOPLE!

I will check with my family on the best date. Maybe I can get someone else involved. IF ANYONE ELSE ON THIS PAGE WANTS TO JOIN US THEN MAYBE THEY SHOULD SAY SO.

I go to this page and it doesn't show the one I just put in. I retype and it shows two responses...Ain't that life folks?

By the way, the Loew's Kings just got another vote as the favorite Loew's Wonder Theaters. cinematreasures.org/polls/12 and I think Bruce 1 should put in his vote as well as others.

I'll be in the Northeast from late June to early August. I would like to meet with you.

The Latest News:
No date has been scheduled for the issuing of the RFP (Request For Proposal) by the New York City Economic Development Corp, (owners of the Loew's Kings) They were supposed to issue their BIG RFP in April or May, the Brooklyn Borough President has prepared a written statement of purpose, suggesting various theatrical uses for the facility and hopefully, EDC will make their announcement soon!

Bruce 1;
I can meet with you sometime the week of June 6. We would have to make it in the afternoon because my mother is coming with me, and she would like to visit Greenwood Cemetery for Father's Day.

Why don't we suggest that the city restore it and open it? It could see great use as a municipal theater if they do it right.

When is Markowitz going to hold that press conference again? I know it's on the June 1, but I don't know the time.

You would be laughed out of the meeting if you suggested that the City of New York pay for the restoration of the Kings! A preposterous proposal at any time, and especially now when the City is so strapped for money.

The City of NY will not pay for the renovation of the Kings, but would probably offer some incentives that will make it attractive to whomever is willing to tackle the project. And, speaking about tackling the project, is there anyone out there in the "peanut gallery" who is willing to volunteer long unpaid hours-ala the Jersey and do their part to help out?Think about it. You may have to paint, plaster, peel, scrape, and do many other things such as usher, sell tickets, sell refreshments, etc,etc,etc.I personally DO want to get involved in it on some level. Do you?
,

RE the Jersey... To quote Siskel and Roeper.."the balcony is now closed".The volunteers working at the Jersey are going to rehab the balcony soon- if it now. Just to give you an idea of what that will entail will be to renovate hundreds of seats. They will be removed and years of grime, chewing gom, soda (and other )spills will have to be cleaned among other things.This is a major renovation task that undoubtely will have to be done at the Kings.Ain`t gonna happen overnight! Be prepared.

You could put ten years of your life into a project, doing just what Theaterat says, plus a whole lot more. You can create goodwill for the theater; promote professional contacts within the entertainment industry; produce the venues most successful events; coordinate a huge amount of press in the local news media; bring in people to restore the theaters technical capabilities; get burnt, cut, bruised and sore working on all different types of projects in and around the building, and then get pushed out by individuals who feel they are more qualified to program the very events which you created and which brought the most notoriety to the project. This CAN happen, and it happened to me. By all means, do what you feel is best to help save this magnificent building. Just be careful on how much of your free time you commit to such a venture.

This announcement appeared on today's NewsFlash bulletin from the Theatre Historical Society, and it may be of interest to any who have the time and money to attend this League of Historic American Theatres convention, which they call their "Ramble". These people are the professionals in historic theatre restoration and operation, so valuable information and contacts may be obtained. Perhaps this is just the impetus that the Friends of the Kings needs. If a few of you fellows can attend, perhaps sharing the cost of a hotel room, then you may have a concrete beginning, though I still am of the opinion that the state of the KINGS is such that only a big money investor can bring it to life. I cannot attend, but Best Wishes to any who can.
"Have you made plans yet to come to Kansas City in July for the 29th Annual LHAT Conference and Theatre Tour? > > CREATING A LEGACY: HISTORIC THEATRES IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL > > Main Conference: July 20-23, 2005 > Optional Pre-Conference Theatre Ramble: July 19th > > Headquarters Hotel: The Fairmont Kansas City at the Plaza > > > REGISTRATION > > Registration will open soon for the conference, BUT YOU CAN RESERVE YOUR HOTEL ROOM NOW. > > For reservation information, click here: http://www.lhat.org/conference_theatre/2005/hotel_accommodations.asp The LHAT group rate is available through June 24th. > > > 2005 CONFERENCE BROCHURE > > LHAT members will automatically receive by mail the 2005 conference registration brochure AS SOON as it is available. If you are not an active member or are not sure you are on the LHAT mailing list and would like to receive a brochure, please email us at info@lhat.org with your contact information. > > All the details we currently have available about the conference are on our website now: http://www.lhat.org/conference_theatre.asp > > There you will find details about the conference schedule, special and optional events, educational workshops, theatre tours, accommodations, Kansas City and registration fees. > > > WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO ATTEND? > > We all share a common appreciation for the cultural and architectural heritage that historic theatres represent in our communities. We share the goals of carefully restoring, refitting and effectively operating our theatres. However, our industry is comprised of a diverse group of individuals and organizations that have differing needs at various stages of project maturity. > > Recognizing these realities, our Annual Conference is designed to address those disparate interests. Whether you are: > > - Starting to mobilize a community around a visionary dream > - Just beginning to select an architect, mount a funding campaign, or launch the construction phase > - In the early years of operating, programming and marketing a historic theatre > - Or, a veteran who has been at it for years > > your focus is on sustaining the viability of a historic theatre and on future-driven imperatives. At the LHAT 2005 Conference, there will be invaluable resources and professional development opportunities for everyone! > > Join hundreds of your colleagues from across North America in Kansas City this July. Reconnect with your peers. Enrich your own professional capacity through our respective successes, challenges and fresh ideas. We can all return home with a renewed spirit in the noble cause that each us strives to uphold every day of the year. > > > For questions, further information or if you are unable to access the above links, please contact the LHAT office at info@lhat.org or call toll-free (877) 627-0833. > > > > > For more Information call 410-659-9533"

Jim Rankin.... Sounds interesting. Only bad part for me anyway is that I will be on a cruise vacation at that time. However, I do intend to log onto their website to find out more about this group. Thanks for passing it on to us!

As has already been pointed out, we shouldn't expect the city to pay for the restoration. However, it is quite realistic to assume that they will offer a package of incentives to the developer. As far as Mr Rankin's suggestion, as usual, it's a good one. At this point, I'm unsure of my plans, but certainly, it would be a worthwhile convention!

Bob Furmanek also make a good point. Unless you are the either the developer or the theater operator, you may lose control. From the very start, I wasn't looking for the glory or the responsibility of running the Loew's Kings. What I hoped is to influence theater operators and or developers to restore this magnificent theatre.

As far as a meeting, so far, theaterat and gustav and myself are willing to meet. No date has been set and in the meantime, I hope a few others will want to join us.

Is Markowitz having a press conference in front of the Kings on the first of June? I recall reading it here, but I could not find the message.

The Brooklyn Borough President has not scheduled any press conference regarding the Loew's Kings. I made the suggestion and, at this time, no decision has been made.

Thanks Bruce 1;

I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO JOIN IN THAT MEETING BETWEEN BRUCE 1, THEATERAT, AND MYSELF. The more the merrier, so to speak. I would like to get a tentative date from Bruce 1.

Soon, I must firm up other plans first.

Okday

How did that d get in there?

WHO ELSE WANTS TO JOIN US? The theater is worth saving because of the many famous people who worked there. Imagine Barbra Streisand, Henry Winkler, or Sly Stallone taking you down the aisle to your seat.

Bruce 1;
I was thinking of 'the Performing Arts Center of Kings' as a name. The 'Kings' is still on the marquis so we can incorporate it.

I'm afraid that HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD would only make one think that yours was another cinephile pic, rather than about the theatre itself. The Brooklyn song I have never heard.

Bruce 1;
You have not yet given me a date on that meeting.

Everyone;
I am starting that video on the Kings. I will be going there tomorrow with the camera in the car (I hope I don't get into any trouble). I want to know what you think of these songs as possible openings, HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD, or GIVE ME THE MOON OVER BROOKLYN.

Good luck Gustavelifting, you are to be commended for your dedication to giving the Kings a new life.

The one and only movie I saw at Loew's King was "The Way We Were". I just found the ad, it was playing on Columbia Premiere Showcase and along with the Kings in Brooklyn was at the Dyker and Georgetown 1. The ad was dated December 9, 1973.

Did you go to the Kings knowing that the movie's star, Barbra Streisand, had worked as an usher there? I wonder who had inherited her uniform by that time? Around 1953-54, the Loew's uniform for female ushers switched from a maroon jacket and tan skirt to a one-piece maroon dress with long sleeves.

Actually my aunts mother lived a few blocks away and we went there to visit her and she way saying she was dying to see this film, so my uncle took all of us. I found out Barbra worked there a few years later.

Does anyone out there have pictures, or film of the inside of the Kings? You can't get in.

I went there twice already. It's sad, but you can still see the grandeur despite the decay.

As has been brought out in previous comments, the largest source of images of the KINGS is the 1980 movie MEMOIRS OF A MOVIE PALACE at a branch of the NY Public Library. Reportedly they will not loan it, so one must view the VHS there.

Vintage photos are seen in the 1927 book AMERICAN THEATRES OF TODAY which was issued as two volumes, and in the second volume it is pictured or mentioned on pages: 30, 37, 48, and 158-9.

An especially nice photo of it is on page 159 of THE BEST REMAINING SEATS: THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE by the late Ben M. Hall.

Most all of these photos are available for a fee from the Theatre Historical Soc. (www.historictheatres.org) by contacting them. Offer to pay for xeroxes first, and then select which images you want them to reproduce for you. Fees are listed on their site under Archive.
It is quite possible that local libraries and historical societies and museums will also have more, along with such as the Avery Architectural Library at Columbia University, where they have a collection of the THSA's MARQUEE magazine in which they have published a few photos of the LOEW'S KINGS. One often has to dig around to find vintage photos. Best Wishes.

Gustavelifting...What happened when you went to the Kings?Was there anybody there? Hope you did not make the trip from Long Island for nothing. You may be able to film inside the Jersey. If I were you, I would ask the president(or somebody with the publicity dept) if it will be OK. I guess you can go on a weekend day while the volunteers are restorinmg the balcony seats, this would probably be a good time to get in. There is no air conditioning so you will probably sweat like a pig.While you are there make sure to see the Stanley wich is about a block away- right over and accross the railroad bridge. This magnificent theater is now a Jehova`s Witness temple, but they DO give tours and allow visitors to see it. Believe me, you will NOT be dissapointed!It is worth seeing, and you will be amazed at what they did to it. Please let me know how you made out if you go. I1m thinking about volunteering myself in the near future if nothing develops with the Kings.

In 1968, my James Madison High School graduation was held at the "Kings" and it was truly spectacular. I have such wonderful memories of that theatre and Flatbush Avenue in general. Shopping at the "old" Macy's and Sears. Even Loehmann's on Duryea Place. I now drive past these locations and, even with the changes, the memories have not faded!!

Susan Heifetz....

Theaterat;
I was unable to get in, so I filmed the outside. Frankly, Marcus Loew would be turning over in his grave, but I think the theater can be helped.

Everyone;
I am looking for pictures taken inside the Kings. Anything from old home movies to photos. I want the historic stuff. Does anyone on this page have it?

Theaterat;
I would not be discouraged about the Kings. It may be in sad shape but the building still shows grandeur. There is no reason why you can't volunteer at two theaters.

Mr. Rankin;
Before I forget, thanks for the information.

Bruce 1;
Can we meet Monday beneath the King's Marquis?

When Gone With The Wind completed its enormously successful 70 mm roadshow at the Rivoli, MGM sent it out again on wide release.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/GWTW1968Wide.jpg

Robert....In that ad there is a listing under Nassau County for a BS Moss Central theater in Cedarhurst. I wonder if that theater is listed on here. Do you have anymore ads that mention the Central theater.

Robert, thanks for that memory,I was at the Big A Amityville when GWTW played. We had continuous shows every day in four track mag sound. I believe most of the L.I theatres played it that way, although the Central had no mag capabilities, HUGE wall to wall screen however.

Here is the ad from when Jerry toured the Loew's theatres playing "The Bellhop".

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/BellhopJerryatLoews.jpg

I spoke with Bruce 1 and the meeting should happen soon.

Closed circuit fights were shown at the King's in the 70's.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/AliVSFrasier.jpg

There is an interior pic here from Cinematour
http://forums.cinematour.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000011

The Loew's Kings is 'The Heart of Brooklyn' and if you listen hard, you can still hear it beating! As we already know, NYC owns the Crown Jewel Of Brooklyn and there seems to be some delay in issuing a Request For Proposal. Hopefully, we can find a developer who sees the potential of the third largest performance venue in the entire city. Hopefully, some greedy real estate developer will not see it as a 'shopping mall'. Just remember, it's not over until the fat lady sings. Who would you nominate as that fat lady?

Well, after two weeks without a computer (I used one in the library one day and didn't like it), I am finally back. I was looking at the site above that had the fight. That fight was in 1964, and it was part of the King history. It was during the Ali Frasier Fight that a fire broke out in the projection room. This, however, did not close the Kings which is constructed of fire retardant materials. The theater went on for another 15 years.

I may try a corporation called Castle Construction, they may be able to work with us. They are presently working on the Suffolk Theater in Riverhead, a restoration.

I planned on meeting with Bruce 1, but that has to be placed on hold for a few weeks. One of my family is in the hospital.

Maybe I should say that I plan to call him in the next few weeks. We should be visiting Staten Island soon, which is closed to the Kings then my town of Holtsville, Long Island.

I am also planning on speaking with the Loew's Jersey, a restored thater in Jersey City. I want to tape inside the building for the documentary so I can show what a restored theater looks like. That should fire the imagination.

YOUNG PEOPLE might not know what caused the loss of LOEW'S KINGS and all the other great movie palaces in New York City. It was BAD GOVERNMENT, the kind of rotten leadership New Yorkers voted for decade after decade. The 1960's saw a 100,000 drop in New York's population. The 1970's a drop of 800,000; almost a million people left New York during those 20 years. Who left? Middle and upper class white people. Replaced by who? Thousands of welfare recipients. Crime during that era was 500% higher than since Rudy cleaned things up. Niel Simon did a smash hit comedy abiut the insanity of even VISTING New York. NYC was the laughing stock of the world. Garbage, crime, unions, worse. NBC-TV did a movie "Train of Terror" which taught teen punks how they could rob and intimidate Subway riders --- with nobody stopping them. Within 12 hours, the NYC Subway system was a world of fear, as Subway crime climbed into the stratosphere. Remember, NYC's government was so stupid the city literally went bankrupt. The Feds had to rescue NYC from their own brain-dead government with big-time loans and demands for reform. Meanwhile, LOEW'S as well as RKO and others watched their beautiful theaters turn into serious financial losses. Now that New York has regained their senses, restoration of LOEW'S Wonder Theaters would be great. But be aware of just why they all went to the dogs.

No, no, no;
I would say that it was the drop in attendance, and a threatened tax on movies. When the Kings closed the VCR, had just hit the home, and HBO started on television. People did not want to go to the local theater because in a few months the movie would be on television, or on tape. People also did not go to theaters out here on Long Island because of the technology. Also, the mayor wanted a tax on all theaters. I remember riding through Queens about that time and seeing one theater marquis with perhaps the words "Don't Support the Movie Tax". It was not bad press about New York City, it was a drop in attendance that was caused by technology, and the threatened city tax.

However, I should add that I agree with rlvjr on one thing. The city is now back to being a tourist mecca. (Yes, even after that fateful and depressing day in September, 2001) It was in the doldrums for a while. They should rebuild and restore theaters. New York is known for arts and artistry. The Loew's Wonder Theaters could be real cathedrals of the performing arts. In the 1970s, New York was known for things like "ladies of the evening", and other forms of vice. Today it's known for arts, and family attractions. Restore some theaters for family attractions like concerts, plays, and movies.

As far as the Kings is concerned, rlvjr is correct. I was born and raised in Brooklyn. By the mid-1970's, the once beautiful section of Flatbush where the theater is located had degenerated into a near war zone. Many were afraid to drive down that stretch of Flatbush Ave with their windows down. Worrying about leaving your car unattended for two hours took away whatever enjoyment the film and theater provided. The City was literally falling apart. Thirty years may allow some to look back with rose colored glasses, but many of us remember all too well the horror of those years. Thankfully, the neighborhood is finally showing signs of turning around. Thank God for Rudy. However, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Let's hope that never happens.

I don't think that the "movie tax" would have kept the public away. It would have amounted to only a few cents on a ticket. The opposition came almost 100% from exhibitors, who didn't want to surrender some of their takings to the city or be bothered with all the book-keeping involved.

Guys,,, Yes, Rudy DID turn around NY. Times sq is now a family attraction, tourists are coming Downtown, So Ho, the East and West villages are always crowded, Tribeca is happening, Midtown buzzes, etc, etc, etc. However, aside from now trendy Williamsburg, Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope( wich seem to be extentions of Manhattan more than Brooklyn neighborhoods), the boro is still being refered to an "outre boro". Granted, Flatbush was a hell in the 70s and most of the 80s, but it too has come back with a very lively Carribean flavor. If we can get people to look past the "outer boro" label and experience Brooklyn for ALL its vibrant areas , tjis would be a first step to the re-opening of the majestic Kings.

Theaterat, I was just confirming why the theater was abandoned in the first place. As you say, the surrounding blocks did turn into a hell in the '70s. At the time, it appeared the only future for the neighborhood was that of a bad sci-fi movie. Thankfully, as I stated above, the neighborhood is showing signs of improvement. As someone who is proud of his Brooklyn roots, nothing would make me happier than to see the Kings open, refurbished, and full of people. Mayor Bloomberg and BBP Markowitz just saved the B&B Carousel(l) in Coney from being lost forever. Maybe the Kings can be their next project. Granted, it will be somewhat more expensive.

I took my video camera to Flatbush, and it does seem to be a Phoenix from the ashes. There are new stores there along side the Sears that has been there seemingly forever. These are stores you see in a shopping mall. It was great to see it rising. However, the bird still needs to brush off some of the ashes. Some of the smaller, 'junkier' shops were still there, and if they clean their act it will be phenomenal. I see a good future that Flatbush can be proud of.

I may not remember this group of bums (too young), or the stadium they played in, but there is another thing Brooklyn would need to do to be great. Rebuild the Field of Ebbet's and bring back the Dodgers.

R.H.
There is a committee formed to open the Kings. If you would like to help, you can reach them through this website

Http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm

R.H.
There is a committee formed to open the Kings. If you would like to help, you can reach them through this website

Http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/awaseniu/loews.htm

Gustavelifting, thanks, I'll check it out. I was scheduled to take one of the tours they were giving in the late 1980's, but got called into work that day. I'm still angry about missing it!

Gustavelifting... Maybe "the Bums" who moved to LA will never come back, but we do have the Cyclones and their new park in Coney IS. Granted, it isn`t major league ball, but it IS turning Coney Island around- for the good.

Theaterat;
I know about the Cyclones, and I really added that to get a chuckle. I went to a Cyclones Game when they played the Yankees of Staten Island. I hope your stadium is as much fun to be in as the one by the ferry.

R.H.
Give it a try. I think it should be turned into a performing arts center.

Its more fun than the park near the ferry. And Nathan's is right next door!

I never attended a movie at the Kings, so I don't know the seating policy. Were all tickets priced the same, or was their premium added for upstairs seating? The theatre did not have a balcony, just a mezzanine with several hundred seats. It seems possible that the seats in the center of the mezzanine were premium-priced, and the rest the same as orchestra seats, but that would have required extra ushers to supervise the center section.

Sorry, that should read "was there a premium added for upstairs seating?" To save time, I neglected to do a "preview."

Had no idea how many comments were on here! I biked on Sunday from Jacob Riis Park to Park Slope and saw this massive structure. Its front reminded me of the Paradise and it had a great frieze? in the middle. On top of the doors it said it was the the Loews Kings Showcase? I loved how it had a facade and then was diagonal. Strange. I bike around to the back and it was weird, the neighborhood just ended but the building is huge and intact. Around the corner was a Sports Authority or some box store and then the neighborhood. There was a 7-block street fair and it was bustling. Some folks saw me eye it and told me someone had just bought it. I went up to the doors to look in and could only see a sliver of the lobby. The second set of doors past the ticket booth had reflective mirrors and reflected the stores behind me. The facade smelled musty.
It would be used highly by the community. The neighborhood is busy and it's Flatbush, I mean, come on.

Shoeshoe....Yes, that is the general idea, to revive this great theater to its former glory. Re all the posts on this theater there seems to be a lot of interest. Did you ever go there? It is truly spectacular. Even when the shows were lousy, just being there was all the fun. And you ARE right, this theater is huge{

Snowshoe;
I think the Paradise in the Bronx, and the Kings were designed by the same architects, Rapp and Rapp, so they share a history other than the Loew's Name. That is probably why it reminded you of the Paradise. Like the Paradise, it's a Loew's Wonder Theater. It's also the toast of Flatbush and Tilden Avenues.

By the way, I have yet to see Keyspan Park from the inside. I hope some day they will start the parachute jump again. Imagine catching a ball in that thing!

Hi Gustavelifting. The Paradise was designed by John Eberson.

There will be a celebrity softball game at Keyspan Park on Sept.18 if you want to see the inside of the park. Unfortunatly the parachute jump will never operate again. Even if they could restore the ride, because of high insurance costs, a ride on it would cost about $20. You would have to hit a ball about 500 feet to reach it anyway.

Ziggy;
I just checked this sight, and you are right! I though all Loew's Wonder Theaters were designed by the same team, my mistake.

Gustavelifting.. Re the Parachute Jump. It is doubtful if it will ever function again. Blame the high cost of insurance and the fact that there will probably be countless lawsuits filed by riders who get 'shaken up'. Went on it once with my father when I was a kid, and it scared the hell out of me- although the view before the drop was awesome!

I am too young to remember being on it. Steeplechase closed when I was only three. However, I think Markowitz wants it running again as part of the revitalization of Coney Island. I just hope he gets the Kings open, and restores Coney Island back to its former glory. I may be living just on the other side of the Verrazano Bridge soon, and I am a former Brooklynite (which I am proud to say).

Does anyone close to BP Markowitz know whether Markowitz is aware of the progress being made on the Loew's Paradise in the Bronx? If the Paradise restoration and performing arts uses are successful, this could be a template for the great Loew's Kings.

Right, Mr Noble. Then again, so could the Loew's Jersey. That's another one of the Loew's Wonders.

Dear Paul,
Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is very well aware of the Loew's Kings. He is anxious for the NYC Economic Development Corp to issue their long delayed RFP Request For Proposal. He has been anxious to restore the Kings ever since it closed in 1979.

The Kings is located in Flatbush and that's where Markowitz began his career as a tenant advocate. Since then, beginning in 1979, I have worked closely with him in generating interest and providing ideas for its restoration. Marty Marakwotiz is is definitely a friend of the Kings.

The newest target is to have the Kings RFP be issued sometimes in October-November.

Isn't it a bit early to be using the Paradise as a "role model?" We still don't know the full extent of the "restoration," and the Paradise has yet to re-open or even announce an actual schedule of events. When and if that ever happens (and I become increasingly skeptical as years pass), it will then take a considerable time to prove whether the Paradise can be profitable or not.

Maybe I should tell you all that Bruce 1 emailed me that he has another person looking at the theater for possible restoration. If I recall, I suggested to him that he try showing the person the Loew's Jersey. What do you all think of this idea?

Showing the JERSEY may be both good and bad, depending upon how visionary the man is. If he sees the beautiful remainders of a movie palace and likes that form, he will be encouraged. If he sees only the many patches and all the work to come, he may see only even far greater expenses in the KINGS. All of this depends upon just what he *really* intends to do with the structure and land. Often times, prospective buyers will claim to be preservationists only to really be developers with ulterior motives. Of course, bruce1 is only doing someone a favor, and has no control over what such a person really may do. Let us hope the prospective owner has both noble intentions AND deep deep pockets!

Amen, Jim, Amen

Couple color photos of the Loew's Kings.
http://www.agilitynut.com/p/kings204.jpg
http://www.agilitynut.com/p/kings2204.jpg

What needs to be shown is one that has been completely restored. Does anyone know of a completely restore theater?

That largely depends upon what one means by "completely restored." The terms 'rehabed' or 'refurbished' are often used to avoid the connotation of something really brought back to original condition as the word 'restored' implies. Most all theatre 'restorations' are not really that since to very few can afford so muchj extensive, hand crafted details, especially since the factories that made many of the furnishings and such no longer exist, and some items such as the huge, elaborate draperies are rarely around today with the knowledege and capacity to do such lavish work to the caliber that it was then done.

Still, there are a few 'restorations' that might inspire someone:
The PARAMOUNT in Oakland, CA (draperies too)
The STANFORD in Palo Alto, CA
The PARAMOUNT in Aurora, IL
The PABST and RIVERSIDE in Milwaukee
The RIALTO in Joliet, IL
The LOEW'S (VIRGINIA CENTER FOR THE PERF. ARTS) in Richmond
among others. No doubt others here will think of some.

The Loew's/United Artists in Columbus, Ohio, is another. But I doubt that any of these theatres ever reached the horrifying current condition of Loew's Kings. The cost of a full "restoration" would probably be a minimum of $100 million due to the high costs of labor and materials. And that's in 2005 dollars. By 2006, it might be a minimum of $115 million.

The Stanley Theatre in Jersey City was completely restored even know it is used as a church.

I need some around the Brooklyn area, or in New York City.

The NEW AMSTERDAM in Manhattan shows what can be done, though it is not and never was a true movie palace.

Radio City Music Hall was "restored" not too many years ago, but it hadn't decayed to the extent of Loew's Kings. Loew's Metropolitan in downtown Brooklyn has been beautifully rejuvenated, as has the Albemarle (near the Kings in Flatbush), but I wouldn't call them authentic "restorations." Nor is the Stanley in Jersey City for that matter.

Thanx Jim and Warren

The New Amsterdam is a good example Jim, especially because it's condition was pretty horrifying before it was restored. If I recall, there were mushrooms growing in the downstairs lounge, and a great deal of plasterwork had been ruined by moisture.

The New Amsterdam is only half the size of Loew's Kings, and also had support from the seemingly bottomless treasury of the Walt Disney Company. I think folks should stop daydreaming about a "restoration" of the Kings and just concentrate on finding someone with at least enough money to save it from collapsing or being demolished and patch it up into working condition. The frills can always come later.

Warren;
It made need a little patchwork, but I don't think the building is about to collapse. There is someone interested and looking at the theater with the head of the committee to save it. Furthermore, work has been done on the building, including the roof and shoring the facade. In other words, the building is not exactly ready to fall down.

I agree, gustavelifting, from the pictures previously posted of the interior, from 2001, it looks like the interior is in great shape....if anyone needs a refresher, those pics can be seen, as a previous post, at: http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php...towards the middle of the page

I personally visited the Kings in the summer of 2002 during the annual conclave of Theatre Historical Society of America and must STONGLY disagree with the claim that "the interior is in great shape." It was in horrifying condition, and many areas were closed to viewing for safety reasons.

For a place closed 30 years those 2001 pictures don't look bad. Was there a lot of water damage from 2001 to the time you saw it Warren?

Yes, I think there had been major water damage during the severe winter of 2001-2002. Pidgeons were also flying in and out, crapping all over the place.

The old stage house roof was totally open to the elements, and pidgeons had moved in. We had them in the projection booth at the Loew's Jersey, and it was not a pretty sight...

The roof has been fixed, and they may need to get rid of the water damage. I haven't been in the theater since I was young so I only know what I saw on the internet of the interior. However, I do know from the head of the Friends of the Kings Committee that the roof has been fixed.

It is heartening to hear that the roof has, at last, been fixed, but let us not delude ourselves that there is not much damage. It will cost a large fortune indeed. Just to hire the guys to trap/kill all the birds and wildlife in there will costs tens of thousands, and that must be done before it is safe for workers to work in there. I am a great admirer of the KINGS, but I wonder if it was not the enormous task ahead that finally stopped that once proposed rehab into multicinemas by that athlete's group. Let us give the committee all the encouragement they need. But let us be realistic about the vast job ahead. Those photos give only a glimpse into the large scale of the place; there are dozens of places not shown that also will require expensive renovation if not actual restoration.

Actually the roof was fixed a few years ago. I am going to suggest to the head of the committee that they hold a rally. I am also on the committee to save the Trylon in Rego Park, Queens. They are planning a rally on the 27th.

To all of the recent posters on the Kings.... Even though the Jersey IS opened and showing movies and featuring other events. it is by no means complete.It still is a "Work in Progress" and still hase some rough edges.It will be many years until it is restored to its former glory, but the important thing is the fact that it IS open and people seem to be supporting it.Was there on 10-9 for "Monty Python and the Holy Grail' and "Dr Strangelove> and there was a pretty large audience for this show.While Kings preservationists will probably get no support from the Jersey management, it still can be a case in point reference to anybody pitching a revival of this theater.There is no reason why a classic film venue cannot flourish in Brooklyn, so lets start to concentrate on the positive reasons for re-opening the "Loews of Loews"

World War II may have still been going on but Bob and Bing had them laughing at the Kings with "Road to Moroco" plus "Henry Aldrich Editor". The same show also day and dated at the Pitkin
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/MeandmyGal.jpg

This item was sent out to those who signed the Chicago UPTOWN's petition on the CompasRose web site:

"The following news blurbs come from the Uptown Adviser, the Friends of the Uptown newsletter (visit their Web site at www.uptowntheatre.com):

For your cinematic pleasure—One Night Only!
Memoirs of a Movie Palace and Uptown Community Portrait 2005
to be screened at Friends/Truman College event
6:30 p.m. Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005, Truman College

"Memoirs of a Movie Palace" will be screened at Truman College, 1134 W. Wilson Ave., in Uptown. The venue is Novar Hall, where seating is limited. This is a very special screening of a very difficult to find movie. "Uptown Community Portrait 2005," a short cinema verite documentary, will precede the feature film.

"Memoirs," a 1979 independent film, tells the story of a theatre very similar to the Uptown: The LOEW'S KINGS THEATRE, in Brooklyn, N.Y., which also remains closed without a plan for reuse. The film was shot on location as the KINGS was being closed in the late 1970s. If someone had the foresight to shoot a movie in the UPTOWN (minus the Brooklyn accents!), we would have a very similar document, with the same kinds of memories recalled and sentiments expressed.

Your attendance as a "Friend" of the Uptown is important to our efforts and goals. As major stabilization work is ongoing at the theatre building, it is a good time for us to network and get to know each other!

Donations will be accepted in lieu of a fixed admission ticket price. Truman officials said that we may park in any of the adjacent Truman parking lots (driveway located on Broadway through the McJunkin Building). Entrance to the Truman building itself will be through the easternmost doors located on the Wilson Avenue side (north elevation). Staff will direct you from there.

***"

The fame of the KINGS and its documentary is spreading, and if you are not in the New York area and have not seen this documentary, this may be your chance, especially if you have wanted to see some of Chicago's remaining palaces as a side trip. Bon Voyage!

Where is this college located?

Jim;
A committee has been formed to save the Kings. Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is interested in the project.

I forgot to add to my other comments that we are winning another poll. Which one of theses theaters in New York City should be restored?

http://cinematreasures.org/polls/79

Gustave, Uptown is a neighborhood of Chicago, therefore the college is there.

Recently, I went to see the Loew's Kings and what I saw was worse than I expected. Although, the Kings still looks majestic, time is starting to take a toll on her. The front of the building is fithy and the windows do not look like they have been cleaned since it closed. When I looked into the lobby windows there was water damage along the ceiling and it appears to be extremely dirty.

Several people approached me asking about the Kings. They wanted to see the Kings saved believing that it would be an asset to their neighborhood. Also, every store front in the surrounding area of the Kings on Flatbush Ave. with the exception of the Kings building and the attached store fronts are being utilized. This clearly gives the reader some indication that it is profitable to have on a business on Flatbush Ave in Brooklyn, New York.

My friend and I had a meeting with the Brooklyn Borough President's Assistant, who confirmed that Mr. Markowitz's indeed is interested in saving the Loew's Kings. However, there is the fact that it would take about 60 million dollars to restore the Kings. Where is the money going to come from? Mr. Markowitz's office is open to suggestions. Please remember, at the present time, the Kings can be saved if we use our resources to save it. However, in the next couple of years, the damage maybe too great and the Kings would be the only Wonder Theater that could possible be razed!!!

Lance, there is a committee to save the Kings, and its led by the person on this message board called bruce1. If you can't find his email on here, let me know using this board.

There is a saying, "If people knew better, they would do better."

It is quite discouraging to know that the Kings has been closed for more than 25 years and those who have claimed to have taken care of it, allowed the Kings to fall into such disrepair.

At the very least, the Kings should have been properly maintained and looked after. The exterior, interior and the windows are filthy. This belief that some people have that let's sit back and wait for someone with deep pockets to save the Kings has not worked. If the Kings was looked after, maybe it would be in similar shape to another Rapp & Rapp theater: Uptown, in Chicago, ILL. More important, the community where the Uptown is located wants to see it saved. The community were the Kings is has no emotionally attachment because no one has taken the time to make this an agenda. How can we save a theater unless the local commuity is part of restoration of it? These are the same people that will be attending this theater. The Kings could have been used for graduations, weddings, local gatherings, filming, and the list is endless. Instead, it has been left to rot.

Why weren't the stores next to the Kings being rented and that income used to help maintain the Kings? Every other store front on Flatbush Ave. is being used. This also would have meant more people would have had contact with the Kings.

Anyone who has seen the TV Special: Memories of a Movie Palace will remember the former manager of the Kings when she broke down crying upon seeing the Kings in 1979. Can you imagine her reaction if she were to see the Kings today??? It is infurating to know that this Palace was allowed to fall into such a deporable state.

This is the reason why my friend and I had a meeting with the Brooklyn Borough President's assistant. We offered to volunteer our time and money in order to help to save the Kings.

The theater itself could be a part of the revitalzation of the Flatbush area by getting the community members involved with the cleanup and restoration work. This should have begun 25 years ago. However, it is not too late.

We have to be proactive. This means voicing your opinions with the legislators in Brooklyn, NY to at least stablize the Kings. Also, coming up with solutions so that the Kings can thrive in the area it is located.

We may also have to make concessions, if you want to see the Kings survive the next couple of years. I would rather see the Kings be stablized and in the conditon that the Majestic in downtown Brooklyn, NY is in, than be razed.

Lance;
Let me know the latest. I can join the fight on two fronts can't I? I mean this theater should be opened for performance, and I would like to see it.

Lance;
You may also find some encouraging news at this section of the Cinema Treasures

http://cinematreasures.org/polls/79

Lance, your pain at the KING'S situation is palpable, and most all of us here agree with you that the KINGS should be returned to service of some sort, but what sort? That is the crux of the matter, don't you see. All the enthusiasm in the world will not pay for the huge bills to repair, rehab, and revitalize a huge movie palace for which there is no longer an audience. Movie-going is declining steadily as more and cheaper options of entertainment present themselves, and even much smaller cinemas with comparatively small overhead are finding it a tougher and tougher go these days. It is all well and good to talk about a community performance center or the like, and a mixed use facility does SOUND possible, but what all these proposals lack is a SOUND financial plan, and that is what is needed to reopen the KINGS in any format. I wring my hands too as I see the years march on and the building deteriorate, but I am not going to criticize Brooklyn fathers for not spending more of the fewer tax dollars they have to pay for more than roof repairs --alone totaling many thousands of dollars. If this were a small theatre of less than a thousand seats, it might have worked out as a public project with tax dollars, but the city fathers are not stupid; they know that anything the size of the KINGS will require a large fortune to repair and reopen, and they were not elected to spend the public's money so lavishly. As with all central cities, the people most in a position to pay taxes have moved out long ago, leaving only those least able to pay taxes for all the many needs, much less vast buildings which no private interests will touch. Does this fact sound an alarm bell for would-be preservationists? It should! Private interests will always take on an expense if they sense that they can make money from it, but they will stay well away from something that appears to cost more than it will ever return. It is part of the cost/benefit analysis that all business must make in order to survive.

I will continue to pine away for the once grand --if not grandiose-- KINGS, but I will not imply criticism to any locals or businessmen who have not stepped forward. The neighborhood of the UPTOWN in Chicago may favor returning that huge theatre to use, but the history of it is littered with good-willed individuals and groups that went bust trying to save it. That city has already spent hundreds of thousands trying to stabilize the structure, and they face over a hundred thousand dollars in heating costs yearly to just keep it above freezing while it remains dark and idle. How much more can we expect the dwingling tax base to maintain? For the same reasons as the KINGS, the UPTOWN will not reopen under any private sponsor: it will cost too much to maintain, even if new uses are found. With mounting tragic social causes across the country, we cannot expect philanthropies to spend for buildings ahead of people, and our poor people must be healthy and solvent enough to pay admission to such huge theatres in huge numbers in order to keep a REALISTIC cash flow = the means by which a theatre 'eats' (pays its bills.) No, the UPTOWN is no model for the KINGS, for though it is stabilized to an extent, it still has no realistic model for use; how many performance groups are there that can essentially fill a four thousand seat theatre that has millions of cubic feet of space to light, heat and cool?

The stores flanking the KINGS were most likely not rented because the city faced the legal obstacles of what is called "demising" by which a deed restriction would have to be formed to separate the stores from the theatre in order to limit the liabilities of the would-be tenants, and such agreements are difficult if not impossible to reach. In many cases like this, the stores share some of the utilities and systems of the theatre, since they were originally under the same ownership. Who is going to pay to revamp or rebuild such today? New tenants? Why should they if they can go to another storefront nearby and have no such opening costs? How will such tenants be competitive if they must bear such costs that their competitors elsewhere do not have to bear? How will property taxes be assessed if the demising agreement has any loopholes in it? The last thing the city wants is to appear in court to sue one of its own tenants who object to assessments that might reflect some of the idle theatre which the city owns. Do you see the problems that arise?

Let us continue to hope for the KINGS, but not any of us advance lofty ambitions unless we have CONCRETE committments of money and use in hand. Long live the KINGS for anyone who has the audacity and money to reopen it.

Kudos, Mr. Rankin. Your explination is very well expressed.

Thank you "ERD"; it is always my hope to make our beloved subject area clear to all concerned. I was once like "Lance" and others who evidently believe 'Well, SOMEONE must be able to do something!' only to grow and realize that these buildings were beautiful, but never practical. They are exhorbitantly costly to run --even when packed with thousands of paid admissions each day as they were designed for!

To amplify the 'demising' situation: If a demising agreement exists, it is an instant RED FLAG against any use of the building by a potential buyer of the theatre, as his lawyers will quickly warn him. Any property buyer wants his property investment to be as safe as possible, and any demising will only serve to increase his risks, not decrease them. For example: suppose the roof leaks and water travels down inside the walls of the front of the theatre, damaging superstructure and throwing some of the masonry onto the sidewalk, as water flows into one of the demised stores under other ownership. Who pays for the roof/building repairs? Who is liable for the masonry striking a patron of one of the stores? Who pays for the loss of business from that and other patrons as repair scaffolding blocks the front of the building and stores? Should the new theatre owner agree to pay for any replacement of store contents? The agreement might make it appear that since it is the theatre's roof, the theatre owner should pay for the repairs, but suppose he doesn't want to or cannot pay the $50,000 or more for a roof job? He will find himself in court with even greater liability, while his areas of the building may not even be affected.

If the utilities cannot all be realistically separated, who pays for the utilities use in the areas that others occupy? IF it is the theatre owner, does he control the thermostat, and will the tenants be satisfied with his idea of proper temperature? If they are not happy, the new owner could again find himself in court, with all the fees to pay for that even if the court finds the landlord not responsible for the tenants discomfort. If so, the tenant will move out, and the theatre owner will find an idle store possibly soon with squatters inside that will theaten the safety and security of his building, not just the store portion that the undesireables have taken over. If such creatures (as well as four- and six-legged ones) will not leave, the theatre owner has no recourse under law, since he does not own the space and cannot enter it, nor legally turn off the utilities to it. If the former owner has abandoned the space(s), the theatre sits with one or more ugly vacancies next to its front doors that it can do little about, other than petition a court to declare the spaces in receivership, which will still not get him control of the spaces, and will take years to clear up via condemnation proceedings.

So we see that any use of neighboring stores or other facilities may prove more a threat than a bonus to a potential buyer of a vacant theatre. And the reverse is true for the owners of the demised areas: if the theatre leaks and only a very absentee landlord owns the theatre, any leaks or other problems may not be addressed in any timely fashion, and again it may take trips to court to get orders to the theatre owner to stabilize the space from which he is getting no income, and cities are notorious for being very poor landlords! After all, how long can the tenants/store owners fight city hall and win BEFORE they go under financially? The lawyers will be happy to keep the case alive in courts for many years while obtaining their fees, while the occupants of the stores go bankrupt. Such is the evil of law in this system of things. So, I never advise someone to buy a property if they cannot get it free and clear of any other ownerships or encumbrances. To do otherwise is think with one's heart rather than one's head, and is just bad business practice that will cost one dearly in the end.

I think if the Paradise can be restored in the Bronx and the Jersey is slowly being restored I think Brooklyn with its large population and great transportation can restore at least one movie palace. Most movie palaces were very successful through the mid 1960's. In the Bronx,Queens and Brooklyn many were successful into the early 1970's. Declining downtowns,changes in distibution of movies as well as the middle class flight to the suburbs along with television brought and end to the movie palace era. Brooklyn is in the beginnings of a great revival which should help the Kings in the long run. I believe the Kings is in an economic zone which would qualify for major funding. The Kings could be restored over many years so people should focus on what needs to be done just to get the theatre open and operating. The Loew's Jersey is a great example of repairs being done over a period of time and a great deal of it by the volunteers which did a lot of repairs at a fraction of the cost.The Kings needs some strong leaders and volunteers who live in the general area with assist from Brooklyn government officials.Poll after Poll lists the Kings as one of New York City's most popular movie palaces, which people would like to see restored. The City of New York should make the necessary repairs to see that no more damage is done to this theatre while it is waiting to be restored.When I took a tour of this theatre a few years ago this was my favorite theatre among the 30 I had seen on the tour. I hope people don't make this the Paramount VS Kings for restoration I think in the long run there will be room for both. Good luck Brooklyn.brucec

Well, you truly can never tell what the future will bring. Jim, I found your thoughts above to be well stated, but remember that you also gave us a long and well thought out argument as to why the Paradise would never reopen as well. It all comes down to the fact that you truly never can tell.

Unlike alot of people who write about the Kings, this was my neighborhood theater. To generalize The Kings situation is an insult to anyone who lived in that area. During the mid 1970's, due to some unscrupulous real estate deals, the neighborhoood changed within a few years. Like most middle class, I left. It took about 10 years for the neighborhood to stablize. Since than, the neighborhood has a working class,a middle class and than there is the affluent Historic South Prospect Park area (and the surrounding areas). Granted you have a very diverse population. However, this could be an advantage if the Kings was to take advantage of meeting the needs of each of these diverse populations. Presently, there is only one major performing arts venue and that is Brooklyn Academy of Music,which is located downtown Brooklyn, NY. This is not sufficent for such a big borough that is growing more prosperous each day.

I am also very much aware that the Kings is very costly to maintain and operate due to its size. However, since there is no performing arts venue other than Brooklyn Academy of Arts, it would be worth the investment especially if Brooklyn wants to continue it's revitalization. Eventually, Brooklyn is going to need another performing arts venue and to build a new one would be at least 100 millon dollars or more. Disney spent over 250 million to build a performing arts venue in Los Angeles, CA. Has anyone seen this venue? I have and it is a waste of money. Granted, the acostics are suppose to be perfect. However, 50 years from now is anyone going to care about this building. To restore the Kings would be about 60 million. Due to the immense size of the Kings, you could cut open a doorway in the lobby and have a couple of 200 screen theaters next to it. The size of Kings could be used to advantage just like they have with the Brooklyn Academy of Arts.

Back in the late 1970's when the Kings closed it's doors, this was a working theater. During the 1980's, store fronts on both sides of the building were being utilized. However, over time, with no one voicing their concerns about the future of the Kings, it was vandalized of everything of value and left to rot.

We no longer can depend on someone else to do the work we can do. Take the time to make the phone calls, write letters to the legislators and make an appointment with Brooklyn Borough President(my friend did). The more proactive each of us is, the more we will be taken seriously.

My friend(who is on vacation)in the near future will be recruiting volunteers to help save the kings. Is anyone interested?

Lance, if you and your friend and others can do it, more power to you! If I had good health and money, I would travel there to volunteer too. Jim Rankin

Jim, Thank you. A word of encouragement goes a long way!!! Again, thanks. Lance.

Lance;
Is there any address, postal or E-Mail that can be added to the Kings Page in the Unofficial New York Nostalgia Buff Website? I figure, if you wish, you can give either one of them here and it will be gladly handled there.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE KINGS WILL COME ALIVE AGAIN, AND ,IF SO, LONG LIVE IT!

To Whom it May Concern:-

In the past couple of hours I've been reading all about the
"old" movie palaces. It fascinates me. I only wish that something
could be done with the ones that are still standing! Namely the
former Loew's Kings, on Flatbush Ave. in Brooklyn. The theatre has
been declared a "landmark" & therefore can't be torn down. I have passed the theatre many times, & each time that I did so, I wanted to
cry. The theatre, which has been closed for 28yrs now, is slowly
deteriorating! I shudder to think of what it now looks like inside.
It was such a beautiful theatre, and how it could of been allowed to
deteriorate the way it has, is way beyond me.
With everything that I have read about the theatre, there's not
a single person that gets the capacity right. The theatre has a
capacity of 4,200 seats! Isn't there a person out there that will
come forth and revitalize this magnificent theatre? I also shudder
to think that several years ago, Magic Johnson was supposed to come & make a multiplex out of it. I'd rather see the place torn down!!

Sincerely,

Carmine Opramolla-cofilms@aol.com

When was the Kings declared a landmark? That's news to me.

A recent close-up photograph of the facade (minus it's blade/fin name sign) and marquee:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joereifer/56786172/

Ken was kind to provide this current photo of the facade, but permit me to respectfully disagree with his use of the ersatz terms "blade/fin" for the VERTICAL SIGN. Slang usage does not help us gain respect for our theatres or their parts by designating them in so casual, and even flippant manner. Ken is a veteran theatres buff, and while he may have heard such terms in his London area, it does not follow that they have currency everywhere. Yes, one or two American sign companies of today have resorted to such slang, but they are cases of being more concerned with being 'hip' and 'modern' than of having any historical accuracy. This is something like using the disparaging British term "flea pit" to describe such as Covent Garden or Radio City Music Hall; it is just juvenile. Ken is too noble to advocate such, so I assume that he was misinformed.

Jim;
I was only trying to convey what I know this type of signage is called collectively in our two countries. I am led to believe that in the USA it is a Blade sign, in the UK is is generally known as a Fin sign or sometimes known as a Vertical sign. What is the correct term in the USA?

If I mentioned Stalls seating or Pit seating, there are probably not many viewers of this site based in the USA who would know what I was talking about. Yet if I said Orchestra seating, all in the USA would know I mean't what we in the UK would call the Stalls (downstairs) section of seating (The Pit seats were very cheap priced seats on long wooden benches in the rear of the orchestra stalls area in live theatres in the UK at the turn of the last Century.)

Same difference with Marquee in the USA, in the UK is Canopy.

I wont go on and bore you all. You say tomato and I say tomato...LOL

Let's call the whole thing off!

Ken:
The correct term in all English-speaking countries is what they were originally called by the artists who designed them: VERTICAL SIGNS, which, of course, distinguished them from the horizontality of the MARQUEE. Architects and designers of such signs are the authority on how they are termed, since they invented them. I don't disaprove of slang terms in speech, most of thye time, as long as the connotation is not changed by them, but in writing I think that we all must attain to a higher standard for the written record.

You astutely mention MARQUEE versus CANOPY, and here it is merely a limitation of how the thing is observed: a MARQUEE (in the theatrical sense of the word) is composed three principal parts in most all cases after 1920: (1) the Canopy which is what started it all to protect the patrons and the front entry from rain; (2) the ATTRACTION BOARDS where some means was used with or without lights to advertise the bill of fare; and (3) the NAME SIGN, a horizontal affair of the name of the theatre. I wish I could easily say just where the first true MARQUEE and VERTICAL SIGN appeared, but I do not know. Perhaps you will have the resources and energy to persue such research in England as well as at the Archive of the Theatre Historical Soc. here, but, unfortunately, I do not.

Your British use of the term PIT, of course, dates from the earthen floor days of the Shakespearean theatre such as the GLOBE, and once orchestras came about, they were positioned in what remained of that originally seatless area, and were therefore the new 'Pits' and by extension, the ground floor of the theatre became the 'orchestra,' for better or worse.

The term STALLS is rather more complicated since it brings in the references to both area of seating level, as well as type of seats. And through the years, with differernt types of theatres in different countries, there are too many exapmles to mention in our short space here to do the subject justice, so as "saps" emplores, I will "call the whole thing off" (to shamelessly borrow from the song)!

Hi Gustavelifting,

Presently, I am not a resident of New York. However, my friend is and he is the one who is creating an organization to save the Kings. When it is formed, I will advise you. I am planning on moving back to New York. In the interim, I will be writing letters, making phone calls to make more people aware of the Loew's Kings and how restoring it would benefit Brooklyn, NY.

Since I am from this part of Brooklyn, NY, I am aware there are alot of people who would like to see the Kings saved including me. Unforunately, this "Wishful Thinking" on behalf of many people has not saved the Kings from being vandalized of everything of value(light fixtures, etc) nor from the horrifying condition it is presently in.

It would behoove you to make an appointment with the Brooklyn Borough President's office so that you will be aware of the present conditon of the Kings and some of the tough decisions they are facing with the Kings.

On a positive note, another Wonder Theater: Paradise Theater in Bronx, NY has been beautifully restored. Their first concert last month was sold out. It is never too late to restore a great movie palace!

excuse me for calling them "those nice signs" I didn't know this site was that acedemic, I just love old movie palaces.

Those considering the Kings theatre should also look into restoring the beautiful Walker theatre in Brooklyn which is intact.(See Walker site on Cinema Treasures) If I lived closer to New York I would start a group myself.

Jim, you are in error.
Let me set the record straight with some actualities:
The correct term in all English-speaking countries is what they were originally called by the artists who designed them (and who continue to design them): BLADE SIGNS.
Pontification in lieu of research is as empty as the Pitkin.
Some facts:
Ledtronics of Torrance, CA relampers of the Bardavon Theater signage http://www.ledtronics.com/product_news/ifma_article_080205.htm along with,
Wagner Electric Sign Company, of Ohio, restorers and rebuilders of countless examples of theater signage including such notables as the Bardavon, Michigan (Ann Arbor), Tampa, and Fox (Oakland) theaters http://www.wagnersign.com/theatermarquees.htm
pushing ahead with,
The Preservation Coalition of Erie County (Shea's Buffalo Info http://preserve.bfn.org/archives/shea/)
the signage codes of municipalities such as San Diego, Menlo Park among scores of cities
and let's not forget good ol' (get this, kids)
SIGNINDUSTRY.COM who's masthead proclaims "The online magazine for the sign industry",
yes folks, all these and myriad others refer to any sign, lit or unlit, that projects perpendicularly from the face of a building and has two faces as a blade sign.
Just wanted to give this dying-horse-of-a-thread the coup de grace.

Begone Vertical! Get thee to a nunnery. Thy slangy ways have no place here! Enter Noble Blade!

(Enow! Back to my dungeon)

Enow or meow? Either way, 'nuff said.

"Robbie" and others of the 'now generation' are all too eager to believe that currency of use is everything, and among those ignorant of the nature of the semantics of a language merely assume that it is enough for people of their acquaintance to use a slang term, so that it thereby becomes legitimate. In fact, it is history that determines legitimacy and useable currency of a term. Lexicoghraphically, there are two schools of thought on this matter; the 'libertines' represented by such as Merriam-Webster Co. see currency as definition and usage, and will accept the utterings of anyone at all as 'authority' (to the notorious extent of listing a madame of a bordello as an authority on sexual matters!), whereas more conservative authorities and renowned lexicographers connected with academia regard only educated speech/writings over time as the authority of usage labeling. I may be the last 'voice in the wilderness' in this regard, but will opine that it is the position of such authorities as the Theatre Historical Soc. of America that are much more to be respected as standard bearers of non-slang than those involved primarily for a profit motive, and of obviously less than sterling regard for history.

Yes, sad to say, this issue may be moot in a day and age of decaying social standards where newspapers and the Internet are regarded as 'authorities,' but I am not so unrealistic as to think that my defending scholarship here will make any headway with the young 'whippersnappers' who regard any appeal to history as unprofitable and not 'with it.' I am afraid that Robbie's adduced modern 'authorities' are as guilty of the mindless, uneducated 'monkey-see-monkey-do' repitition of innanities as are those who so unthinking took up the phrase: "I could care less" in lieu of the correct and logical phrase as it originally was: "I couldn't care less." English does not have the luxury of a college of language arbiters as do such as French and Spanish, so it will be in the unwashed hurly burly of unrestricted writings such as these that the lustre of our theatres and their parts will be burnished by academic writings or sullied by slang. More's the pity. Now I wonder just who was "Pontificating."

On at least one occasion the KINGS was used as the background for a filming location: the 1996 movie "Sleepers" with Brad Pitt, Jason Patrick, Kevin Bacon and others. A minor character is shown walking up to the front doors and the dillapidated marquee is shown as the camera cuts to the lobby, the grand staircase and the balcony foyer. Not too much is shown of the theatre, and parts of the background are draped in white cloth to hide lights or damage, I don't know which. It is a relatively short scene near the middle of the film and acts as a local gang lord's supposed throne room. The location never again appears in the movie, and nothing of the auditorium is seen. I wonder if it has otherwise been used as a location for film (aside from documentaries such as "Memoirs of a Movie Palace")? Such use for location filming can bring in much needed funds; the LOS ANGELES now survives largely on such fees from the movie producers. Perhaps the NYC area interested ones could join with the NY film commission and prepare 8x10 photos of the original and current state of affairs views to file with the group that furnishes data on locations nationwide to the California producers/location scouts. This might raise the awareness of the wonderful KINGS so that it is seen in more films and thus is seen publically as a valuable resource left to moulder.

This is my first time in a while online. Too bad because there was much buzz here. I don't know how to contact Markowitz's Office. However, that is a good idea. I also did not know the Kings was the location for the movie Sleepers, that's also interesting. However, does anyone know how to contact the borough president's office?

I just came across this site tonight but it brings me to tears to read about the places i have seen or have been in that have gone the way of a wrecking ball. For some reason even though the Kings was closed as a public venue I was under the impression that Erasmus Hall High School was utilizing the stage and insides. I had no idea that the roof and interior was all messed up. I could go on and on here but i wont. As much as it pains me to know that the building still stands but in this day and age there seems to be no need for a 3600 seat theatre. Tthose days I am sorry to say are long gone.

Yeah, it's a tough proposition. I believe that it could once again become a community centerpiece. But not without creative vision, organization, money and extraordinary dedication. Hopefully something better than a multiplex plan will come along.

Watch the Bronx Paradise.

Hi Gustavelifting . Marty Markowitz is the brooklyn boro president and he is also a real A**hole. I have had dealings with him in the past when he was a state senator for Brooklyn. For almost the last 20 years he has run 2 free concert series in Brooklyn. He got public as well as private funding for the concerts but he some how was able to get away with hiring the sound and lighting companies without going to an open bid. I tried to get involved with doing his shows and he was a jerk. I doubt he would lift a finger to help save the Kings unless there was something major in it for him self.

Try to convince Markowitz that he can become the showbix impressario that he aspires to be and use a renovated Loews Kings as his venue for staging his concert series. Convince him to get Keyspan, Bear Stearns, or Pfizer, blue chip corporations with a major Brooklyn presence to cough-up the renovation dollars, and rename the auditorium after Marty.

Astyanax-I don't want to put words in Marty's mouth, but very few things would make him happier than seeing the Loew's Kings as the Kings County Center for the Performing Arts.

That is strange I posted something in here last night and now it is not here. :(

I like the sound of KCCPA!

So write to Borough President Marty Markowitz at Brooklyn Borough Hall, Brooklyn NY

Does anyone know the exact place where I can send Markowitz an E-Mail. Sorry, it's been over a month since I have been online.

Gustavelifting--Try
AskMarty@brooklynbp.nyc.gov

If anyone gets or has access to the Theater Organ Journal of the American Theater Organ Society, there are pictures of the Kings in their current issue. The pictures include an exterior shot and the proscenium when the theater opened, the inner ant outer lobbys and even a picture of the great Billy Nalle playing the Robert-Morton organ. The pictures are from the Theatre Historical Society.

Hello everyone, my name is Kris from Staten Island, New York. I am 27 years old and do not even remember this Theatre and knew nothing about it until today. I was in Brooklyn the other day and stumbled upon the Kings Theatre when I was on Flatbush. I was walking down the street on the same side and I noticed a very large metal beam on the roof going through the top front of the theatre and did not know what it was. As I got closer and looked at it I could not believe what I found. This is the most beautiful and majestic theatre I have ever layed eyes on. I had my digital camera with me and took some pictures, next time I go back I am going to bring my video camera. If anyone wants to see pictures just ask. I wish I could have seen the inside. But I was really ispired by it and learned alot from this message board that I want to be part of any group that will help raise money or bring this theatre back to it's original way. I would donate money if other people are willing to do so. Also does anyone know how the mayor feels about it and markowitz? I would love to see it up and running again, I am just not sure if the area would really treat it well. I mean today's society would not be as respectful of such nice things. They may ruin the place putting gum places and vandalizing it. I would suggest that a higher price be payed for tickets so you can weed out trouble making youth. But I think it should be for people of class because that is what it is. From what I have heard about the inside it was like a palace and should be kept that way when people come to it's re opening. Hey Mayor Bloomberg has so much he should help pay for the resoration instead of parties for his election when he did.

New York Post today (February 6) described Borough President Markowitz's latest attempt to "save the Kings."

B'KLYN: SAVE OUR THEATER

By RICH CALDER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 6, 2006 -- Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz is leading the latest community charge to save the majestic Loews Kings Theater on Flatbush Avenue from City Hall bulldozers.
Markowitz is trying to persuade the Bloomberg administration that the future of the gritty avenue's business district hinges on restoring the neglected 77-year-old historic jewel, which closed in 1979.

Reviving the 75,000- square-foot former picture palace and vaudeville house, he said, could also be the centerpiece for a bigger project that includes building residential space, a boutique hotel and retail shops...

Gosh, I do hope Marty Markowitz et al in Brooklyn can get the capital to preserve it. Hey, Theatre, would you send me a copy of your pics? JBYORK14@aol.community (--only put "com" in the aol address.) Thanks

Gosh, I do hope Marty Markowitz et al in Brooklyn can get the capital to preserve it. Hey, Theatre, would you send me a copy of your pics? JBYORK14@aol.community (--only put "com" in the aol address.) Thanks

Sorry to say this but Marty Markowitz will only do something if there is something in it for him. As I had stated in an earlier posts I have had some dealings with the jerk. Then again if anyone can pull this off maybe he can.See Marty is a jerk but he is smart. He has been a NY State Senator for many years and now he is the borough president.He must have realised many moons ago that he could scam more money being a local politician then being a congressman or U.S Senator. He made a good deal of money off his summer Concert series that used to be held at the Midwood HS football field till the local community board got to many complaints from the locals about noise traffic and crowds. He then moved them to Asher Levy Park at W5 st and Surf ave in Coney Island. His other venue he calls the Martin Luther King Jr Concert series at Wingate High School next to Kings County Hospital. It was at this particular series thatdue to high winds a lighting truss was blown over and injured the late great Curtis Mayfield. He wound up paralized from the neck down and succumbed to his injuries a few years later.the following is from the NY Daily News Sept 5, 2004... The story said he moonlighted as a non profit promoter but he got grants from national endowments for the arts as well as corperate sponsors. With the exception of paying the peformers, Sound and lighting guys who also doubled as stage crew the rest of the people working the shows were all volenteers. The man was making a nice penny putting on these shows with out ever putting a dime of his own in to it.

Freakish gust of wind

Curtis Mayfield at Wingate Field, 1990


By DAVID HINCKLEY


Curtis Mayfield

No one provided a better musical chorus for the optimism of the early '60s civil rights movement than Curtis Mayfield.
A guitar player, singer and writer out of Chicago's rugged Cabrini-Green housing projects, Mayfield led the Impressions through upbeat anthems like "Amen," "It's All Right," "People Get Ready" and "Keep on Pushin.'"

He first joined the Impressions in 1958, age 16, just before their national hit "For Your Precious Love" split lead singer Jerry Butler off from the others.

Mayfield kept the group together and they returned to the charts in 1961 with the otherworldly "Gypsy Woman." Soon he was writing songs with an irresistible blend of rhythm and melody that became calls to a better, brighter day.

A decade later Mayfield would explore some darker ruminations with "Freddie's Dead." But while that attached him permanently to the "Superfly" culture, the anthems ike "People Get Ready" and "Amen" remained resonant.

So it was no surprise that on the night of Aug. 13, 1990, more than 10,000 people poured into Wingate Field in Brooklyn for a show Curtis Mayfield would headline.
Outdoors concerts were a long tradition in New York, from the Philharmonic and the rousing Goldman band to pop and rock. For a couple of bucks, fans could spend a warm night watching some of the biggest acts in the country.
The only complaint was that most of them ended up in Manhattan, which is why, in 1982, Brooklyn state Sen. Marty Markowitz decided to bring some of these artists to the eastern side of the bridges.

Moonlighting as a nonprofit concert promoter was an unusual gig for a public official, but Markowitz feared no one else would pick up the ball. Big promoters like Ron Delsener were busy with their own shows, and besides, Brooklyn didn't have any outdoor facilities where 8,000, 10,000 or 15,000 fans could easily gather for a show.

The best Markowitz could find was the field at Boys High, so that's where the Martin Luther King Jr. concert series was launched in 1982. Shows were free, and Markowitz got the biggest R&B artists he could afford on a budget covered by sponsors and donors.

The shows caught on, and three years later he moved the series to the larger Wingate Field, run by the city Parks Department. He also added a second weekly series at Midwood Field, with a more eclectic roster that included pop singers, orchestras and Latin artists.

Armed with attendance figures to bolster his case, Markowitz began lobbying for a permanent outdoor concert facility in Brooklyn. But it never became a budget priority, which left him with what he had. His crew put up the stage the day of the show and took it down the next morning so the field was open for recreation again.

Fortunately, the Wingate patrons brought their chairs, or sat on the ground, so the crew didn't have to set out thousands of seats. Just a stage, sound system and lights.

Like all summer promoters, of course, Markowitz's team was at the mercy of the weather. The official policy was that if there were anything more than "light" wind, rain or thunder, the show was called off — though the unspoken rule is that you give the show every chance to go on, largely because you disappoint thousands if it doesn't.

Weather didn't seem to be an issue on Aug. 13, 1990. The stage, sound and lights had been routinely assembled in the afternoon and at 7:30, soon after the sun had set, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes played their opening set.

Moments after they finished, Curtis Mayfield started up the steps to the stage, carrying his guitar and surveying a crowd that was already rising to applaud.

Then, in about the time it would have taken him to raise one hand and acknowledge the welcome, Curtis Mayfield was flat on his face on the stage.

He did not yet even realize that he had no feeling or movement from the neck down.


The crowd didn't know that, either. The crowd did know, to its horror, that a blast of wind had sent one of the light towers pitching forward, landing directly on Curtis Mayfield.

The towers weigh several hundred pounds. The impact broke his neck.

He was rushed to Kings County Hospital, where he was placed in intensive care. Reports on the severity of his injury surfaced quickly and several days later were confirmed.

Eventually, he got the best outcome he could have hoped for. He lived.


Though it was a very different life. The man who used to wake up in the morning with a melody in his head and work it out on his guitar spent four years learning to breathe well enough so he could hold a short conversation and sing a few notes.

Happily, he had hung onto the copyrights from most of his songs, so he could afford rehabilitation and as comfortable a life as possible.

He accepted a string of honors through the '90s and released a new album in 1997, though he admitted his life was "hard, very hard." He died on Dec. 26, 1999, age 57.

The morning after the accident, Markowitz called it "a terrible tragedy" and said the collapse was caused by "a freakish gust of wind" that no one could have foreseen.

At the next show, held on schedule the following week, the whole crowd was asked to sign a huge get-well card.

At the start of the next season, Markowitz announced that the continuing popularity of the series and the tragedy of Curtis Mayfield left no doubt that Brooklyn needed a first-class outdoor concert facility.

Where is the article about Markowitz in the Post, what date again and page?

Posted by Theaterat for Phil Phil.I would like to share a Kings memory with the viewers. I DO agree, the magnificent Loews Kings is worth saving and I applaud all those who are working to that end.I remember in early `59{ possibly January} the great film version of Jules Verne`s "Around The World in 80 Days" was playing at the Kings. Back then, if a film was popular, it would be re-released. Any way, it was a Sunday afternoon. My father- a Jules Verne and movie fan like me asked me it I wantes to go. I said "yes' and we drove to the Kings in the family`s ~52 Cadillac. I never was at the Kings before, so my father told me it is like going to a palace and a museum rolled in one. He was right! The whole place just blew mw away!No need to describe it again, but I never will forget the men`s room with its richly decorated wood paneling and art work and the forest of columns in the lobby. I remember sitting center stage in the first row of the balcony in the Smoking Section. Remember them? I am not sure if the movie was presented in Todd A_O or widescreen, but it did not matter.I was so mesmerized by the movie and the great theater that was showing it that I just sat there in rapt attention.Since then, I have seen other epics at other theaters, but on that very cold Sunday way back then, I realized that this was what movie going was all about.About 9 years later, in early 68 it was re-released for the last time before going to TV. I did see it at the Alpine, but the experience was not the same.My friend Theaterat tells me that the Loews Jersey is in the Kings tradition, but I have yet to see it.Will try to go in the near future.Posted by Theaterat for PhilPhil

Well; PhilPhil
We need the fans

Did anybody miss me? Where have I been? Well, I misplaced my password and without it, I did not have access to this site. Sure, I could go on, but I could not post a note. As far as writing to management, that did no good. They never answered any of my pleas.

Enough said! Unfortunately, the NYC Economic Development Corporation has delayed and delayed issuing that RFP (Request For Proposal) and there seems to be no progress on the Loew's Kings. If they issue the proposal and if a real estate developer sees the value of this Cathedral of the Ornate, then hopefully it will be restored and reopened as the Kings County Center for the Performing Arts. Of course, it could be demolished to make way for a shopping mall.

Has anybody written to the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz to express their support for his efforts to Save The Kings?

Kings is my new name, it's the same old Bruce II

Gustavelifting and any others wishing to get together for a meeting on how to Save The Kings, please contact me at thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
Kings

Again, sorry for the long delay in arranging this meeting, but I could not get onto this site.

Give me a break. Anyone who has actually been inside the Kings or even in the area knows its past its prime. The community and government are not behind it and that's just the start. I love vintage theaters just as much as the next guy, but I do have my priorities.

Just let it have the peaceful death it deserves.

Jack,
When you looked inside the Kings, you may have found it beyond it's prime. However, if you have looked inside other old theaters, you would have found similar conditions. For instance, look at Disney's New Amsterdam. That was a wreck but look at it now! Look at the Chicago, the Detroit Fox and others. When you talk about the neighborhood, why not look at all the national chains that have discovered Flatbush Avenue (surrounding the Kings) Staples, Old Navy, Stop and Shop, Ashley Stuart, Foot Locker, CVS, Rite Aid, Lucille Roberts, Canal Jeans, etc. Not to mention the continuing presence of Sear's. Could all these stores be wrong about the resurgence of the neighborhood.

The neighborhood has stabilized, business is booming but there is no movie theater and there is certainly no live house for concerts, etc. As far as 'no government support', the Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz totally agrees with my plan for a live theater with a multiplex, shopping and a botique hotel built on the air rights of the theater.

So give me a break and don't be so negative!

Sad to say, it would not be a "peaceful death." Derelect buildings typically stand until some part of them falls onto a public way or neighboring property and someone complains or is injured. Once the media gets wind of such, the city will move rapidly to bring in the wreckers to forestall a law suit. If such happens, the language will NOT be for its nostalgic past, but 'How can responsible city fathers allow such a menace to the public to stand for so long?!!' There will then be a round of denials and finger pointing and a scramble as the politicians leave town on "vacation" or claim that that they never noticed the vacant hulk was standing there (since 1980s). There will then be a loud call for all such "useless" old theatres to be found amd razed and that a commission will be formed to look into the matter forthwith! Any words then from us 'theatre nuts' will be sneared at, and sites like this will get messages of outrage as to 'How could we not alert those responsible as to this danger!' No, it will not be a 'peaceful death.'

Lest anyone misconstrue my words above, I will append this ending: So let it be that concerned citizens will band together to never let such an end occur, but to instead to restore this once theatrical jewel.

Save the Kings!

Anybody interested in having a meeting, contact me 'Kings' or Bruce at thats.brookln@verizon.net

Anybody interested in having a meeting, contact me 'Kings' or Bruce at thats.brookln@verizon.net

Kings et all... thanks for your thoughts. I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic. I've worked at theaters before and have seen my fair share of "goods," "bads," and "uglies". The Kings somehow falls between the latter two. If it weren't for the fact that it's a Loews, it'd be ugly.

The New Amsterdam theater was a moderately large (1700) seat theater that had been taken care of and was in the heart of Times Square-- factors that were clearly in its favor.

The Kings has roof damage that would cost easily over half a million dollars to repair and is a 3600 seat behemoth. Also, despite what you say, is NOT in a good part of town. I've lived there on weekends for three years now and can tell you that it only takes a block or two of distance from the main stretch before you get in to some dicey areas. There's a reason that Streisand, Stallone and Winkler aren't returning to their roots-- would you if you saw what a mess your old neighborhood has become?

Let me ask those of you ready to "save" it this--
(1) Have you actually been inside of the theater? Just the lobby doesn't count.

(2) Have you written down your business plan? How many meetings have there been so far? You've been discussing this for three years now and there still isn't any "Friends of the Loews" yet. In that time, the stage roof has pretty much crumbled, opening it to the elements, and plaster-work has been damaged beyond repair.

It is true that you could bring it back to its former glory-- for an estimate for 2 to 3 million dollars, and then do you realize how much you'll have to spend in heating and electricity? What could you possibly run in that area that would attract customers? Running a hip-hop concert would be fine, but don't you know of the vandalism those shows bring in? Don't expect the yuppies from Manhattan to come out. Even if the neighborhood was still good, the stigma of that part of Brooklyn is so heavy that most people shudder at the thought of even leaving Manhattan.

If you're going to put time and energy into something, do it right and make sure it's a good cause. The Loews Paradise is about the best example of it being done right (or almost right) that I can think of-- visit the theater sometime and you'll see what I mean. The guy that put money into that place (private, not a public group) went bankrupt before he finished it! And while a private venture will always have the privileges that public groups don't offer, the St. George theater is a nightmare of private ownership, so there is always the other side of the spectrum.

Loews Jersey has been so handicapped by its own politics that I foresee that it will NEVER get fully restored. The same goes for most of the groups that go on a vigilante "save the whatever" kick without even realizing what they're inheriting, first.

You think Marty Markowitz and Donald Trump are going to make it all happen? Think again. Markowitz would sell you his mother to get a vote, so don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Last time I checked, Trump wasn't buying up theaters in Brooklyn to save his life.

I wish you all the luck you can get, but please consider what I've said. It's nice to be romantic and an armchair preservationist (which all of you "Save the Kings" guys are at this point), but realism and actually doing something is what counts, and let's put it this way: in the last three years I've been following this, nothing has happened.

Kings et all... thanks for your thoughts. I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic. I've worked at theaters before and have seen my fair share of "goods," "bads," and "uglies". The Kings somehow falls between the latter two. If it weren't for the fact that it's a Loews, it'd be ugly.

The New Amsterdam theater was a moderately large (1700) seat theater that had been taken care of and was in the heart of Times Square-- factors that were clearly in its favor.

The Kings has roof damage that would cost easily over half a million dollars to repair and is a 3600 seat behemoth. Also, despite what you say, is NOT in a good part of town. I've lived there on weekends for three years now and can tell you that it only takes a block or two of distance from the main stretch before you get in to some dicey areas. There's a reason that Streisand, Stallone and Winkler aren't returning to their roots-- would you if you saw what a mess your old neighborhood has become?

Let me ask those of you ready to "save" it this--
(1) Have you actually been inside of the theater? Just the lobby doesn't count.

(2) Have you written down your business plan? How many meetings have there been so far? You've been discussing this for three years now and there still isn't any "Friends of the Loews" yet. In that time, the stage roof has pretty much crumbled, opening it to the elements, and plaster-work has been damaged beyond repair.

It is true that you could bring it back to its former glory-- for an estimate for 2 to 3 million dollars, and then do you realize how much you'll have to spend in heating and electricity? What could you possibly run in that area that would attract customers? Running a hip-hop concert would be fine, but don't you know of the vandalism those shows bring in? Don't expect the yuppies from Manhattan to come out. Even if the neighborhood was still good, the stigma of that part of Brooklyn is so heavy that most people shudder at the thought of even leaving Manhattan.

If you're going to put time and energy into something, do it right and make sure it's a good cause. The Loews Paradise is about the best example of it being done right (or almost right) that I can think of-- visit the theater sometime and you'll see what I mean. The guy that put money into that place (private, not a public group) went bankrupt before he finished it! And while a private venture will always have the privileges that public groups don't offer, the St. George theater is a nightmare of private ownership, so there is always the other side of the spectrum.

Loews Jersey has been so handicapped by its own politics that I foresee that it will NEVER get fully restored. The same goes for most of the groups that go on a vigilante "save the whatever" kick without even realizing what they're inheriting, first.

You think Marty Markowitz and Donald Trump are going to make it all happen? Think again. Markowitz would sell you his mother to get a vote, so don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Last time I checked, Trump wasn't buying up theaters in Brooklyn to save his life.

I wish you all the luck you can get, but please consider what I've said. It's nice to be romantic and an armchair preservationist, but realism and actually doing something is what counts, and let's put it this way: in the last three years I've been following this, nothing has happened.

Dude: the New Amsterdam, as I understand it, was not well taken care of. For whatever it's worth I've heard it was about as trashed as you describe the Kings when they got started.

I think the Kings could rise again. But I think it requires a person (or people) with vision and drive. You have to get people excited about the place, raise funds, and come up with a multi-functional plan (like the Orpheum in Madison, WI...they have movies, concerts, a restaurant in the lobby, private rentals for parties and ceremonies...and they seem to be making it). You have to make people understand how cool it is that there are generations of memories in the place, and that it should continue...like some European structure that has been standing for hundreds of years. If it can't be completely restored, a redevelopment plan like the one used at the Tivoli in Washington D.C. would be an option.

That being said, I agree with you about what has taken place so far. All I see is a bunch of people talking and that is not going to cut it. I think this Gustav guy put up a little web site. But it's basic HTML and isn't going to do anything by itself. I suggested months ago that a 501(c)(3) be formed and the idea was met with resistance. If nobody is willing to take that basic step (which is work, I admit...but is not that big a deal...I know someone who set up a 501(c)(3) theatre company) then I don't see how the people having this conversation are ever going to accomplish the sizable tasks mentioned in the paragraph above. I can see the comments coming now: why don't YOU do something? I would love to. But my volunteer efforts are currently devoted to my high school alumni association. I am an officer, it is a ton of work, and I can't just walk away.

Not trying to beat you up fellas. But I don't think being nice is going to help. You need to get your act together and start taking action if you expect to have a chance of saving this place. Otherwise, eventually, another redevelopment plan like the multiplex thing will come along. This time it will succeed...and that will be the end of it. The place will be torn apart.

If you are afraid of failure, you should get over it. Embrace the possibilty of failure. There is no better teacher.

Yeah, except the New Amsterdam had a multi-million dollar corporation behind it, which the Kings doesn't.

How can you get excited over getting mugged, eh?

The city owns the property, so until such time as they want to move on the matter, forming a not-for-profit would serve little purpose. At its most noble vision, a politician, such as the borough president, works to implement what his constitutents want, but in reality the works of politicians are not so noble. It will require of those wishing to save the KINGS, someone on the political 'inside' who can find out the real attitude of the politicos, contrary to whatever they may be saying 'for public consumption' as the saying goes.

Obviously, the theatre is not high on the politicos' list of problems, especially since (unlike Disney and the NEW AMSTERDAM) there does not appear to be any big money in the background. Yes, folks, the KINGS will never return to showing movies, so you have to interest a developer with BIG BUCKS or DEEP, DEEP POCKETS to become interested in order for there to be any realistic hope of renewal. That athlete who wanted to subdivide the place realized that even his pockets were not deep enough to withstand the tens of millions this job would require before a penny is received as income. In this country, without an assured high return on investment, 99.9% of would-be investors will back off. Disney did it for image in Manhattan, not the blue collar suburb that Brooklyn is perceived to be. What Brooklyn-based entity is willing to take the risk here in their own backyard? Even the tax-free Jehovah's Witnesses with their HQ in Brooklyn did not take on the KINGS (assuming the borough would have let them). They had to go to Jersey City to the former STANLEY (which is about 2000 seats smaller than the KINGS). Does this say something about Brooklyn politics? Are other entities scared off of getting involved with the politicians there? If so, and given the ownership, we could all be wasting our time on a noble, but lost cause. Maybe those in the area should turn their efforts toward the former BROOKLYN PARAMOUNT, and try to encourage LIU to restore it as a showcase of some sort, though I don't know how they would turn a profit on it.

The Stanley in Jersey City (beautifully restored, but somewhat altered) has 4332 seats, and the Kings has 3676.

Trust me on this: I spent 10 years of my life (and thousands of hard-working hours) helping to save and re-open Loew's Jersey.

It ain't easy folks...

The Jehovah's Witnesses did NOT have to "go to Jersey City to the former Stanley." In Flatbush, they took over the Albemarle Theatre, which is near the Kings, and did a magnificent job of refurbishing it.

Jim--The Jehovah's Witnesses already have the huge former Albemarle Theatre on Flatbush Ave. It's unlikely they would need a second theater within such a short distance.

I stand corrected as to the relative seating capacity and proximity to the "huge" former ALBEMARLE. I stand by my observations, but as Bob so well puts it: "It ain't easy folks."

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

To: Jack
When I first read your negative comments, I was upset. Now that I have had the chance to digest them, I have a different perspective. Maybe I have been trying to Save The Kings for too long? If only some deep pocketed developer would understand the potential. If only they could see how such restoration and air rights expansion (Botique Hotel, Multiplex, Shopping Mall) could mean to the whole neighborhood. Others have suggested we form a 501C and make a business plan, but that would mean raising the money (Estimates have gone as high as $30-$50 million dollars.) In my opinion, the best way to go is to find a developer and convince him that saving the theater can and will increase the surrounding property value. Maybe I've been at this for too long? Maybe I have talked with too many developers, talked to one too many retail chains (those that have surrounded the Loews Kings) but I wouldn't say I have accomplished nothing. I've collected memorabilia and stories from former theater manager and ushers that went way back to 1936.

Certainly the memorabilia and availability of some original furniture could fill a small museum. I hope by inviting new blood to a meeting, we can divide responsibilities and give it another push. Maybe that would make the difference.

Kings, you've just got that button on your mouse fixed. One of the first signs of its impending doom is multiple 'clicks' which result in multiple posts such as above, in case you were wondering.

I don't feel Jack was trying to be negative in his post; he was merely being honest and realistic. Nobody loves old theaters as much as I do. I put a HUGE chunk of my life into saving and fixing the Loew's Jersey to get it to the point where it is now. (Some pretty choice years too, from age 30 to 40. I was there nearly every Saturday, and many many more days and nights. I've got the physical scars to prove it!) But I finally had to walk away from that project because of the games and politics. I accomplished what I set out to do - they CAN run 35mm film again, but I grew tired of all the nonsense.

To make a difference in saving these great showplaces, you have to be willing to commit a great deal of time. You can't just sit at your computer and be an armchair preservationist. You might feel better about it as if you’re making a difference in saving the place, but that’s about it.

As a theatre, the Albemarle had about 2,600 seats, which would be described as "medium-sized" rather than "huge," but apparently sufficient for JW's purposes.

Kings,

There's a sucker born every minute. If you can get someone to dump the amount of money needed to fix the theater (ie. a LOT), go for it-- I'll even donate some good, working 35mm projectors to the place if you get it up and running. Hell, I'll even run them.

But, as has been previously stated, nothing has been done so far. When you get to that step, give me a ring.

To: Bob Furmanek
Several months ago I thought that this message board was only for nostalgia buffs. It seemed to appeal to people who want to see a theater restored but never took the concept forward. Now it seems there are people who are also living in the present, but fall victim to the games and politics or those who don't think it's possible. So far I haven't heard from anybody who wants to have a meeting.

I visited the Loew's Jersey while it was still going through renovation and frankly found it's decor a little overwhelming. Maybe I'm prejudice but the Loew's Kings is classy, it's not overdone.

Forming a 501(c)(3) is not an empty act. The funds you collect from people might not eventually be used to directly work on the theatre. Maybe you will find a large investor for that. But you can hold yourself out as a legitimate organization and use the funds to put on events and cover expenses for other worthy project-related endeavours (like flying to another city to talk with a potential donor). I might send you a donation. But I am not going to make a check out to Bruce the Loew's Kings Guy.

Hang On For Dear Life,
Thanks for the advice, but what I would really like is a face to face with you and other interested people. Maybe a meeting is a good idea?

Well: I don't live in the area, and I won't have any volunteer time to contribute for at least another year, and (just to drive the point home) I don't feel comfortable donating to an organization that doesn't have official status (even the dreamers and charlatans of movie palace renovation accomplish this). But if you feel like there is a reason to talk on the phone for a few minutes, give me an email address. I will contact you to set something up.

Dear Life,
I understand the fact that you don't live in the New York area, making it impossible to meet in person, but I am not asking anyone for money. I have been trying in different ways (contacting real estate developers; contacting theater operators, contacting live concert promoters, etc.) but I have never once asked anyone for money.

Where do you live and is there a local theater that appeals to you?

I live a ways outside Chicago. Some stories I watch in this part of the country are: the Uptown, Ramova, Patio, Gateway, Arcada, Catlow, and New Regal (all actually in Chicago).

Have you really been doing all that stuff? I am impressed.

Yes, I've done all that stuff, but somehow the theater remains closed. Maybe that's because the city owns the building and doesn't know how to market it? Maybe it's because the surrounding area has decayed and had a crime problem. Now is definitely improving) Almost directly behind the theater is one of the most successful Sear's stores with a large parking lot. Along side the Kings is a mini-mall with Stop & Shop Supermarket; Old Navy, Staples, Marshall's and off the corner is a Foot Locker. And behind and to the left of theater is additional 750 car park lot--city owned lot that is long term lease by the owner of the mini-mall. He is a major major developer in Brooklyn, but plays things close to the vest. Loew's Kings can certainly be a Center for the Performing Arts and draw its audiences -- that travel a distance.

The original theater held 3,600 people, but was reduced to 3,192 in the sixties. (Still a commanding space!) The main design elements are the Palace of Versaille and the Paris Opera House.

You didn't mention The Chicago Theater. I even had conversations with him about a space in Brooklyn! (The original architects for the Kings also built this house)

Greetings, Bruce and all friends of the Kings! I've been reading over this long, long message board and I think I can see what we really need is a live meeting, as soon as possible. Let's call it for next week at the Grand Army Plaza Library or something. Even if only 3 or 4 people show it would be a much better start than this slow-motion message board.

Hey Brooklynite, that's a great idea! Let's try to set a day and date. thats.brooklyn@verizon.net
Bruce (Kings)

so has any one said what subway line and station is close to this theatre?

To: Brooklynite, Gustav and all others wanting to have our first meeting:
Flatbush Avenue Bus, Church Avenue BMT (nice walk) Nostrand Avenue Subway. I'm sorry I really don't know the correct names or lines for public transportation. Although we could meet at my house and from here, drive over to the theater.

To: hdtv267
I live right near the 15th Street-Prospect Park station of the F Train.

is that the one closest to the theater and shopping centre?

Thanks. I'm just looking to check the theatre out myself I'll be in the city on Saturday (4/1)

Yes, there is shopping and then the Pavilion Theater. It's a digital cinema where satellite dishes bring the movie to the audience.

OK, I've called up the Flatbush library at 22 Linden Boulevard, which is pretty near the theater. Anyone using public transit could reach the library by a short walk from the Parkside Aventue stop on the Q; we could have a meeting there, and then stroll down Flatbush to the theater if that's called for. If I go in tomorrow we can probably get a reservation for sometime in the late-morning-early-afternoon of Saturday, April 8 (the meeting rooms aren't open Sunday). Is that a good time for the folks here? Bruce, in your experience with this issue since 1987, are there other people you would invite? Because I was thinking, if it's gonna be less than five people, it's might not worth formally reserving a room...

I'll gladly show up at said meeting. At the very least, we can all get informed about what would need to be done with the theater at all.

Brooklynite: Thanks for all the extra effort! Saturday, April 8th is fine with me and I can certainly talk about the neighborhood, all the new shopping, all the old theaters and the possibilities for renewal...

Afterwards, our group can go back to my house to watch 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace'.

Many of the people interested in the Kings are not necessarily NYC residents, so I'm really not sure who might be interested or not. Let's hope for a small, but enthusiastic group.

To: Jonah Jonah Jonah
For some strange reason, I can't send email to you! So here's my reply:
Hi Jonah!
Thanks for writing. I don't know whether you saw the recent post by Brooklynite, but we are trying to set up a meeting for April 8th at the Flatbush Branch of the NYC Public Library. The meeting will start there and proceed down Flatbush Avenue to the Loew's Kings. Afterwards everyone is invited back to my house for a viewing of 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' a filmed documentary made in 1979-1980. It shows off the architecture and contains interviews with various theater personnel.

What can you do to help? Come to our meeting. Further details to follow

Finally, there seems to be something actually happening re. the Kings! Please let us{me} know a time and where to meet on Sat 4-8, and I definately will be there!Will be checking these posts all week to find out. Thanks!

Hey Theaterat (et al),

It's great to see that you're available for Saturday. I've been holding off a bit on reserving a room at the Flatbush library till things were a little firmed up, but I guess I'll go in tomorrow and just do it provisionally. The thing is, the library closes at 3:00, and the latest meeting room appointment we could possibly get would end at 2:30. Now please tell me if that's really too early for you, in which case we'll definitely change plans; at this point, our effort cannot afford to leave out a single person. If the library is a no-go for you, I'll canvas for an affordable local restaurant where we could reasonably hold a meeting.

In the meantime, everyone please try to prepare for the meeting by organizing your ideas and whatever special experience you may have, and maybe getting something down on paper to distribute. Try to think small: outreach is probably the best thing we can hope for in the short term.

And if anyone else reading this board is considering coming to our inaugural meeting on Saturday, please speak up now so whatever concerns you may have can be addressed as well. Thanks, all.

Brooklynite:
There's nothing wrong with meeting at the library and then walking down to the theater, but another possibility is to meet at my house, have the meeting then watch 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace. then we could take a ride over to Flatbush Avenue.

Brooklynite, RE the meeting. I m off on Saturdays, so any time is ok for me.Looking foward to it.

Who else is interested? Let's meet, talk things out and come up with a plan!!

Go get 'em Bruce. I believe there is a solution. I KNOW that enthusiastic, intelligent people can accomplish amazing things when they band together and stick with something.

Brooklynite and others: Our meeting is coming up soon, who else is interested??

Update:

OK, I've just filed for a 12:00-2:30 meeting Saturday at the Flatbush Library at 22 Linden Blvd off of Flatbush Ave. I should know for tomorrow whether we've been approved for the big meeting room, but even if we're not I think they will find us some accomodation in a quiet corner or side office.

Everyone please encourage interested folks you know to attend; the room has capacity for 75!

So, big room or no, let's make it for noon Saturday April 8 at the Flatbush library.

BTW, on the after-meeting walk down Flatbush to the theater, those not familiar with the neighborhood should get quite an enlightening illustration of the evolution of the area from a quiet Dutch village to a burgeoning Caribbean commercial district.

Brooklynite: Thanks for setting things up, I await final details.

OK, we've been approved for the big room, and I've submittted a story for the front page of this site, which runs as follows:

BROOKLYN, NY - A meeting to organize a movement to revitalize the historic Loew's Kings movie palace will be held at noon Saturday, April 8 in a 75-person auditorium at the Flatbush Library at 22 Linden Blvd by Flatbush Avenue, easily accessible by subway. The discussion will be highlighted by Bruce Friedman, who will discuss his tireless efforts toward the preservation of the theater since 1987, and the hope to preserve it through transformation to a singularly grand performing arts space to serve the diverse Flatbush community. The meeting will include a showing of at least parts of 'Memoirs Of A Movie Palace', a touching documentary filmed in the last days of the 3,000+ seat theater's operation. But most important, we will be there to exchange our ideas on how to revitalize this grand theater for the modern community of Brooklyn, starting with small artistic outreach efforts.

The formal meeting will conclude at 2:30, at which point we will take a group stroll down commercially bustling Flatbush Avenue to visit the boarded-up palace in person, on the way passing by several other ancient landmarks at the heart of this historic street. There may also be a small concluding meeting at Mr. Friedman’s nearby home, conditions permitting.

Hopefully the moderator will put it up soon. I hope you don't mind, Bruce, that I've sort-of-committed-you to bringing the 'Memoirs of a Movie Theater' tape along, when I heard that a TV and VCR would be available at the library. How much of the film we show there will I guess depend on the progress of the meeting.

Now that the details are finalized, I hope we can all try to forward the message by phone, e-mail and message board to any theater, arts, and community groups and persons we know of that would be interested. Oh and if anyone else reading this is coming, it would be great if you RSVP'd here, though of course it's not necessary.

Brooklynite: Thank you for arranging this meeting! Honestly, I have tried so hard and tried so long that it's a real shot in the arm that other people want to join in the fight to Save The Kings. Maybe an organized effort can accomplish more than I have been able to do myself.

Brooklynite... Excellent! I am willing to do my part no matter how small or large that effort may be. See you on Saturday!

Our meeting is scheduled for 12 Noon today, let's have a really good showing! 'Memoirs of a Movie Palace' will be shown and the discussion will center on how we can best motivate the money people to save this theater and how nostalgia could be the driving force for progress.

For those who couldn't come, I am glad to report our somewhat hastily-arranged first meeting as a success. We attracted five dedicated individuals from across Brooklyn, just from the notice on Cinema Treasures. With better weather (it was a downpour Saturday) and more outreach through and beyond the theater preservation community, I trust our small group will grow will futute meetings and events.

To be notified of future events, email me at flatbush AT gmail.com

We have just started a working mailing list if you want to join that, and we should have our own fabulous website soon, which should prove a better center for our activity online than just using the Cinema Treasures forum.

What does the McCarren Park Pool and the Loew's Kings have in common? McCarren is the last of the Robert Moses built pools not to have had a makeover, just like the Loew's Kings is the last of the Loew's Wonder Theaters that could be restored. The NYC Parks Department made an arrangment with Ron Delsener Productions to hold a series of 10 concerts at McCarren. Delsener came with me to the Loew's Kings--(a few years ago) and liked what he saw, but said that I should get a real estate developer to restore the place and then he would book concerts!

The Loew's 175th Street is now Reverend Ike's Church, sometimes used for commercial concerts. The Loew's Valencia was restored as a church while the Loew's Jersey was restored for various events.

So how about the Kings??

The Valencia and 175th Street were still in good condition when churches took over. The Kings is in such pathetic shape that I doubt that any church could afford to even repair it, let alone restore it.

Dear Warren,
What would you suggest the present owner (NYC) do with this PATHETIC theatre? Maybe you belong on a SHOPPING MALL web site? Sorry to be so harsh, but would you just give up?

:(

OK, let's calm down... this is not Crossfire. I'm pretty sure we all want the same end here.

By the way, if anyone has any web experience to help with a website for the new 'Save The Kings', please-mail me. Thanks.

I'm not advocating the demolition of the Kings, I'm just trying to be realistic. Its current physical condition seems FAR beyond the financial reach of any church to repair. Perhaps the city could be sued for being derelict in maintaining the building and permitting it to deteriorate, but I don't know who would do the suing.

SAVE THE KINGS!!!!

(foaming at the mouth)

In all seriousness, Warren is right. There is no church that could or would want to save the Kings. If anyone is going to do it, it has to be a group that can raise the money, or a private investor (which I don't see happening).

Sorry I was unable to attend the meeting Saturday-- I was caught ill this weekend.

Does anyone have an outline of what was said or proposed at this meeting?

I too was unable to come but would like to get involved.

Well, when Trumpism is finally declared a religion, I suppose that it could be converted into St. Donald's Basilica.

We discussed a number of topics at the meeting, including Bruce's efforts to interest developers over the years, ways to raise awareness in the local community (which is largely Caribbean and came to the area after the theater had closed down), as well as cultural outreach, including to Brooklyn's large artist community.

The rub of development is that the theater probably cannot financially sustain itself on its own terms, but that if a developer is given rights to build on a large scale on the surrounding lots, and below and possibly above the theater itself, then the prospects become much better.

We also discussed the feasability of a museum-type installation, including the possibility that we could get permission from the city to use one of the otherwise-abandoned side storefronts for outreach.

If you want to get directly involved, we should really discuss these things on our 'Save the Kings' mailing list with organized threads etc., not here with this single ridiculously long column going back to 2001. E-mail me at Flatbush AT gmail.com and I'll put you on the list.

Warren: A church is one possibility, but that would only please the parishiners. A theater would be open to everyone. At the meeting, Brooklynite said that he had seen workers carting out what he thought were chunks of concrete. More than likely they were chunks of plaster that had collected after falling from the balcony facings. More than likely they are chunks that had fallen quite a while ago and the fact that they are being hauled away may mean that the city is getting ready for real estate developers to tour the theater.

So our job is to seek out real estate developers and make them aware of the possibilities that the theater holds.

Actually, when I went back later I realized my mistake, that the workers were actually carting debris from the adjoining building, and unfortunately not doing work on the Kings.

I guess new work toward restoration will have to be paved by our new efforts at activism. See my post above.

Well, I will go into more detail on the started mailing list, but I would say before you do anything else, a better idea than to "plan" is to talk to people who have actually done work in the other five Wonder Loews. For example, you're aware that the plasterwork's original molds exist, yes?

What was proposed as the usage of the theater? Concerts? What kind? You'll either have few people come to oldies shows or you can have a lot of people that damage the theater with the hip-hop concerts.

Did anyone take notes of exactly what was said at the meeting? Like a full minutes readout?

Jack's idea of contacting people who have actually done work in the other Wonder theaters is a good one. Although it's impossible to get input from the people that restored the Loew's Paradise as they are involved in a lawsuit against the present owner. Also, I am pretty sure that much of the work at Loew's Jersey was volunteer work. As far as the church work at the Valencia and Rev. Ike's church was also done by the congregation. Maybe Jack or some others can research this information with a few phone calls?

Quote Jack Theakston above: "For example, you're aware that the plasterwork's original molds exist, yes?" Is this a question or a statement? For original plaster molds to exist at this late date would be a rarity indeed, and a situation much to be hoped for!

To my knowledge no such molds exist, but I do know that if you have 'like' designs elsewhere in the theater, they could be replicated. Thus creating new molds!

Though it would be wonderful if the original plaster molds existed, the lack of them wouldn't be a problem to restoration. At the Paradise, missing ornaments were reproduced from the plaster that still remained in place. Even if the plaster is completely missing it can be reproduced from photographs. At the Elgin Theatre in Toronto the proscenium and box seats were destroyed to make way for Cinerama, and when the theatre was restored for use as a legitimate playhouse the boxes and proscenium were replicated. You would never know that they were new if you hadn't been told.

Bear in mind that restoration of the Elgin and Winter Garden theatres was done under the auspices of the Ontario government and had the seemingly bottomless pockets of the provincial government to draw from. As well they had the original Thomas Lamb plans for both theatres. To date the Kings has no such benefactor to fund any restoration efforts and I believe that replacement of the ornamental plaster will be way down the list of necessary things to be done immediately. The major hurdle will be to reopen the theatre at all.

Also bear in mind that the Elgin and Winter Garden are in the heart of the city of Toronto, while the Kings is in the boondocks of Brooklyn and about 45 minutes by subway from the center of NYC's cultural activities. The King's only hope for survival as a theatre seems to be as a project that would serve Flatbush and its surrounding communities. Even when the Kings was showing movies, those were pretty much the boundaries of its patronage. Large numbers of people did not attend the Kings from elsewhere.

Sheesh! Do you guys wake up and take negativity pills for breakfast or what? All I was saying is that it's possible to replace missing plaster ornamentation. Do y'all wait in the wings with buckets of cold water?

Sheesh! Do you guys wake up and take negativity pills for breakfast or what? All I was saying is that it's possible to replace missing plaster ornamentation. Also, doesn't the phrase "boondocks of Brooklyn" seem like an oxymoron? It's the same as saying the boondocks of America's largest city.

Sam, for what it's worth, the roof and the plaster-work are priority on ANY theater's agenda of things to be restored. If plaster-work crumbles and falls on an audience, that's a major liability.

Kings, the original plaster molds DO exist for all of the Loews theaters. The company that made them in the first place still exists and the whole point of keeping them was for the theaters that needed repair-work to easily just replace parts. That's how the Paradise (which had totally unrepairable plaster-work) was saved.

Ziggy, cold water is always necessary for these projects. Apparently there are people going into this that don't have realistic visions of what needs to or can be done. They're not professionals, simply volunteers. Look at Loew's Jersey and what it could be. Look at Loews Paradise and what it is. That's the difference between volunteers and professionals doing work.

Currently, there's not even a legitimate organization set up here, and it's still at the volunteer level. So in my opinion, all of the ice water should be thrown on this project as possible going into it, so that when you get hit, it's not going to hurt as badly.

Is there a legitimate list right now? Or is it just someone CCing everyone? Can we set something up on Yahoo! or Google groups perhaps, or some similar list server? In this way, archival of messages can be easily accessed and read by the general public interested in the project.

In my own personal opinion, I feel the Kings is unsavable/not worth it. But I will gladly give my time and effort to those who are serious and can actually get something done. If this is just going to be an armchair, grass-roots committee of five who don't get anything done, count me out.

So let's get some stuff done, eh!?

Enough cold water. Anybody that can throw cold water need not apply. However, if once we start to get things done and you want to jump aboard, you're welcome.

Ok, Kings. If you want to live in dreams, that's fine, but if you live in reality, you take the bad with the good. The whole analogy behind "cold water" is that it's a wake up call to what really needs to be done.

But, in the real world, there are also real people with real solutions to problems that you can and will face if you go into this head first. For example, you yourself were not aware that the original molds for the Kings still exist. That's the difference between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars.

There are some pictures of the Kings interior that were taken in 2001, at http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php .The pics are halfway down the page. It really doesn't look all that bad to me.

I just viewed those pictures from 2001. I also expected much more visible damage after reading some of the posts. Maybe there really is hope!

I think if you guys are going to succeed that you will need both:

enthusiasm and someone around to throw cold water when necessary.

That being said, I don't understand your resistance to forming a legal entity Bruce. It isn't that big of a deal and will legitimize your efforts.

R,H.,
Don't worry, a few of the people on here said the Paradise would never open again, but it did, and even if the venture fails, it is ready for another...people seem to paint the picture a little too bleak for the Kings...unless the theater has developed new leaks, the roof had been fixed in 1994......stage left has developed a new leak meanwhile, which you can see in the pics on the website that I posted...all is not hopeless

Wouldn't it be great if we could get another Richard De Cezare to take an interest in the Loew's Kings? He's the guy that put all that money into the Paradise, before getting the shaft. I just called and got: 'This number has been temporarily disconnected.' I had no other way of reaching him!

Only a major real estate developer might have the vision we need, only a major real estate developer would have the money this project will take. So any member of our group or independent should try to contact a developer and get and hold their interest.

Looking forward to the next meeting
Bruce KINGS

A very big part of our early support for saving the Jersey came from the local community. Friends of the Loew's volunteers took to the streets to raise awareness of this hidden jewel in their neighborhood; we went to stre