Embassy 2,3,4

When theatre was multiplexed,all they did was divide balcony into left and right thirds. Center portion was left open to downstairs house to permit original projection booth to service the big screen. Theatre could be returned to original condition with minimal work.

Have fond memories of this theater as the DeMille seeing roadshows like Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines and later two great music pictures with my dad - Soul to Soul and The Concert for Bengla Desh...

Before it became the Embassy 2/3/4 it had a short life as the Mark 1/2/3 and had the distinction of having Apocalypse Now on all 3 screens after its debut at the Ziegfeld

I survived a view visits in its later years seeing Airplane and Roger Rabbit in 3/4 and Bright Lights Big City in 2

This theater still sits vacant and boarded up with a "for lease" sign on the marquee. I have a photo of it's exterior that I will try to upload to this site if I can get a good scan.

The Embassy 2,3,4 has been empty since the engagement of "Enemy of the State" (1998). The street address is 707 7th Ave.. As of last year the company that holds the lease to this theatre wanted around million a year in rent.

The Mayfair Theatre first opened under RKO management, but when RKO dropped vaudeville at the nearby Palace and turned it into a movie house, RKO sold its lease on the Mayfair to Loew's. The Mayfair was built and owned by Walter Reade, and replaced the old Columbia Burlesque, which was totally gutted for the new theatre. Reade had no interest in running the theatre himself. After Loew's, he leased it to the Brandt circuit. Circa 1959-60, the late Reade's family, which memorialized his name in the Walter Reade circuit, took over the management of the Mayfair, refurbished it and re-named it the DeMille at the suggestion of Paramount Pictures, which contracted to supply the theatre with its major releases. One of the first to open there was Alfred Hitchcock's "Psycho," which created a sensation with its "No one admitted after the start of the movie" policy. If I recall correctly, "Psycho" ran day-and-date with the same policy at Reade's Baronet or Coronet on Third Avenue. Those were the only two theatres in the Greater New York-New Jersey area showing the movie, and the grosses were astronomical.

Is the whole auditorium there? I was only in this theatre once and it happened to be one of those horrible balcony theatres. It was so steep and the screen was off to one side and so far away. I thought I rmember hearing part of the orchestra had been converted to retail space but I could be wrong. That would leave this the last remaining Broadway movie house still standing from the glory days.

I'm surprised with all the knowledgeable theatre people that have made their comments on the Mayfair that no one has stated that the Mayfair opened as the Columbia Theatre, a one time burlesque house in Times Square. RKO never opened this house. They operated it and when they opened the Radio City Music Hall and RKO Roxy they let this one go. Check Variety during this time frame and you will see that this is the sequence of events regarding this theatre.

Orlando, if you read my comments above, I did mention the Columbia Theatre, which was a burlesque theatre, but in the polite sense of the word before striptease. The Mayfair was a completely new theatre built from the gutted interior of the Columbia, and it did open under RKO management. You can see a full page photograph of it as the RKO Mayfair on page 102 of Ted Sennett's "The Movie Buff's Book." It had a gorgeous marquee that stretched all the way to the corner of 47th Street and around it. A three-sided vertical sign on the corner of the building had "RKO Mayfair" down the middle. On the right side was a neon-lighted message, "There's A Better Show At RKO Theatres." On the left side was a billboard for the Mayfair's current movie, Universal's "Air Mail," a 1932 release.

Okay, you're right, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

As a boy I remember seeing some of the great signs outside this theater like Magnificent Men, Hawaii and Shoes of the Fisheman. Is the theater intact inside? I mean, if they took down the dividers would it be pretty much the same as it was in the 60's? If so it would be the only roadshow house left in the tri-state area. How about an American Cinemateque here? It would be the only repertory house actually designed for showing movies as movies(here in New York we could see real 70mm and TODD AO again!!) and not just as screening room curiosities.
Martin Scorcese could you find the money for this?

The audtitorium on the main floor seemed more or less intact. If you sat in the first few rows, you could see straight up to the original ceiling of the Mayfair. The other auditoriums, if I recall correctly, were the original balcony divided up. So I guess it could probably be restored to a single auditorium. But at what expense and for what purpose?

New York never seems to benefit from anything like an American Cinemateque. I want to see "This is Cinerama" so bad, I will try to coordinate a trip to The Dome when they show it again.

Warren,
I thought I explained the purpose in my comment. New York needs a film museum that is a real theater like the Met opera house or the BAM in Brooklyn. Millions of dollars are poured into these institutions every year for the proper exhibition of extinct art forms(I mean French baroque opera? Come on. Rameau's "Les Boreades" at BAM was wonderful by the way.)
So why not an American Cinemateque here? And New York could get right what California got wrong(so I've read) at the Egyption.

I saw "How Thw West Was Won" in the Cinerama Dome. It was my first time seeing anything Cinerama. That week, I saw the movie twice and saw 6 3-D movies at the Egyptian Theatre on Hollywood Boulevard. Even though American Cinemateque operates the venue, the 3-D Festival rented the space. The courtyard of the theatre is stunning but all the exterior shops that line it were closed (empty). The restoration of the interior is a disgrace and that is why American Cinematique is struggling with it. If they had remained faithful to the building, they might have had a chance. It is just a bland black box with some vestiges of the old theatre and of course the ceiling which is more visible to the balcony audience. It is simply not wonderful on the inside. I doubt American Cinemateque will have any interest in a Times Square venue since they can't handle the west coast holding that they have.

I saw The Egyptian during its sad UA days, and shortly after American Cinemategue opened it. I agree that most of the things that made the theatre special are gone. I dont know what they were thinking, but am glad the theatre did not wind up a Rite-Aid.

The original theatre on this site-- the Columbia-- first opened on January 3, 1910, and was named in honor of the company that built it. With headquarters in the office building next to the theatre, the Columbia Amusement Company was one of the leaders in the burlesque industry, which in those days was similar to vaudeville but with more emphasis on comedy, musical production numbers, and beautiful showgirls. The Columbia's first show was "Follies of New York and Paris, or Night Life in Two Gay Cities," emceed by Charles Howard, a Jewish dialect comedian in the guise of his famous character, "Ikey Sheinstein." Shows ran one week at the Columbia and then made a circuit of Columbia Amusement's Eastern "wheel." The Columbia Theatre was designed by W.H. McElfatrick in Beaux Arts style. The 1,800-seat auditorium was hyperbola-shaped for better acoustics, and had two balconies, plus tiers of box seats at each side of the stage. The ceiling above the entire width of the proscenium arch had a mural of "The Goddesses of the Arts," painted by Arthur Thomas. The Columbia made news at the time for being the first New York theatre to have a "modern" ventilating system for removing tobacco smoke and other offensive odors.

Does anyone know from Warren's description how much of this still exists and is there a vintage photo of the original interior or even from its day as a roadshow house? All I have is a seating chart from an old Stubs.

The Columbia was totally gutted except for the exterior walls that held it together. Its replacement, the RKO Mayfair, first opened on October 31, 1930, with the Amos & Andy feature movie, "Check And Double Check." In those days, "Amos & Andy" was one of the top radio programs, with the title characters played by white comedians Freeman Gosden & Charles Correll. For the movie, they wore black make-up. I've never seen it, so I can't say whether others in the cast did as well.

I photographed the Theatre back in 1980, both the downstairs and right side balcony.I have good photos whenever somebody can put them on a site. The whole interior is gold.
This house was different in that the orchestra rear starts where the balcony ends.Coming into the theatre even at the orchestra rear seems to put you very close to the stage. The first 70mm I saw here was "LAFAYETTE" around Easter of 1963.

I passed this theater again today. It is a shame that the only surviving Times Square movie house is shuttered. As the last of a breed it should be treasured, and by more than just us. I wonder if anyone could make a go of a single screen theatre nowadays...look at the trouble filling the Astor Plaza and the Ziegfeld. But those two are really new houses, not classics. Since the Mayfair (the DeMille? anything but Embassy 2-3-4!!!) is the only movie house directly on Times Square, with that wraparound sign above it still is use, it seems a perfect spot for premieres, exclusives, maybe even a spot for the much-desired Cinerama revival, a wish that seems to crop up on many of these message boards. We have this possible treasure just sitting there. What's a fanatic to do?

United Artists should have leased or purchased the theater when they let the Criterion go. When I was last in NYC, OCt 2000 it was just sitting there empty.

The corner site at Seventh Avenue & 47th Street is ripe for re-development, one of the last in the Times Square area. I'll bet that the owners are just waiting for an acceptable offer that would replace the theatre with an office tower or hotel.

So who is this guy saps? I've been writing the same stuff for months now on the Ziegfeld and Astor sites. This is somebody after my own heart. This is a classic NY house not the Astor Plaza which is nothing but a 70's warehouse. This should be a great NY house and the place for major premieres and used as a 70mm Todd AO amd Cinerama revival house. Where is this guy Scorcese and his rich friends? I thought they loved movies. Lets make a widescreen house happen! With the paycheck from just one movie they could make this a reality.
By the way Mike from Oakland the loss of the Criterion still makes me sick. I can barely go past the block. God what a great movie theater. It was probably the most coveted road show house in NY. Even more than the Rivoli which was pretty magnificent itself.

Vincent
I was in the old Criterion once before they twined it. Isaw Bette Midler's Divine Madness in 70mm. I was there a few times after they cut the original theater in two. I saw thew opening film upstairs when they reopened, 9-5 in 1980. I rememebr sitting in the balcony to see Divine Madness. That was a strange movie though to be filmed in 70mm. I loved the Rivoli. I saw The Island with Michael Caine there in 70 mm. After they twinned that theater I saw On Golden Pond in the upstairs theater. I saw American Graffiti 2 in the downstairs theater. Before it was twinned I rememebr seeing Airport 1979 there.

Mike as a boy I saw My Fair Lady at the Criterion during its first run and then in '76 as a teenager I saw 2001 at the Rivoli. Talk about your religious experiences!

I believe the first film to play the new Demille Theatre in 1958 was a documentary called Behind The Great Wall which had been narrated by Chet Huntley..It was exhibited in a process named Aroma-rama which released differnt smells thru the air conditioning ducts of the theatre. A unique thing about attending this theatre was that you were able to smell the different scents of China for at least 10 years after that presentation.

As I recall, all the "scents" smelled like incense that could be purchased in any Woolworth's at the time.

I've never been to this theater (regretfully) but I always remeber walking past it, it had a long lobby after the ticket booth (did it not). Is this theater really still intact inside and where are the pictures some of you say you have. maybe someone needs to start a site with pictures of all the old theaters.

The interior may be intact, but in its final, multiplexed condition. The orchestra floor served as one "screen," the other two were in the balcony, which had a wall down the middle from front to back. In the main floor cinema, if you sat in the front rows, you could see all the way up to the original art-deco ceiling...The lobby wasn't especially deep. After you passed the ticket-taker, there was a staircase to the upstairs seating. Then, after a few more steps, you were at the back of the main floor seating.

Here are a few films that played exclusive run at the Mayfair/DeMille.
1951 Detective Story
1931 Frankenstein
1945 Gentlemens Agreement
1960 Psycho
1965 Magnificient Men in Flying Machines
I have the New York Times Movie Adds for these features except Flying Machines.Brucec

The "balcony" was not a true balcony in the sense of overhanging the orchestra. It was instead a raked portion at the theater's rear, divided from the lower orchestra by a wide aisle that admitted patrons from the long entrance lobby flanking the left side of the house. The Mayfair showed some pretty important 20-Century Fox films, such as "Gentlemen's Agreement." And "High Noon" premiered there in '52. I saw "Wizard of Oz" there in its 1949 revival (and at the age of seven, cringed from fright at the Wicked Witch). It also showed Disney features (I recall being brought "Cinderella" there). As a high-schooler, I caught a revival of the Brando-Leigh "Streetcar Named Desire" in the late 50s. Finally, a Soviet-Union knock-off of Cinerama played there, featuring a travelogue of the USSR on a giant curved screen, assembled and disassembled specially for the film's run.

If only we can see this reclaimed. It is the last movie theater in Times Square.

I've been to this house, and I'm surprised to read there's not a true balcony. As I recall you have to climb a lot of steps to get upstairs, and then you're only at the foot of the steeply raked seating. I know that in the Ziegfeld you go up a few steps to the first row of the "balcony" but here it seems like there's plenty of steps before you reach the first row.

The Mayfair had a "true" balcony overhanging the orchestra floor. It never had a raised section of seats at the rear of the orchestra. You must have it confused with another theatre. The upstairs balcony was sub-divided down the middle to form two "screens." I think the former orchestra was designated #2, with the upstairs #3 and #4.

BoxofficeBill

For the Russian Cinerama film did they drape the screen or just let it float like the Ziegfeld did with This is Cinerma?

The Soviet Cinerama knockoff, referred to above by BoxofficeBill, was called KINOPANORAMA and played the Mayfair sometime in 1958. I believe the film was titled “Great Is My Country” and was shown for a relatively short time (two weeks?) in conjunction with the Soviet Trade Exhibition, which was being held at the New York Coliseum at the same time. It supposedly had 9 channels of stereophonic sound. As I recall (46 years later !), the screen was not draped. Probably because the run was so short and drapes were expensive.

As a side note, original ads before the opening called the process “Cinepanorama”, which did not sit too well with the “Cinerama” people. The Russians then had to change the name back to their original name “Kinopanorama”.

Warren and RobertR--
Time plays tricks with memory -- I'll concede that. But my sense of the floor plan is that the long lobby hallway ran along the north wall of the auditorium to the center, then opened to a wide entrance aisle cutting horizontally across the house, allowing an upward acent to the raked rear or a downward progression to the lower orchestra. Since the late 50's, I've been to the theater only once, in 1987 to see John Badham's "Stakeout" with a raucous Saturday night crowd (whew!)--by that time it had been subdivided. As for the Soviet knock-off of Cinerama, it was a "float" (again, subject to the tricks of memory), if by that term you mean that the screen stood free-style in front of the theater's regular screen. Or o I remember. I recall the first Cinerama screen at the Broadway (before the attraction moved to the Warner) in winter 52-53: that was a "fload." The Cinerama at the Warner had a lot of drapery that gave it a more permanent look.
Bill

A seating plan for the DeMille Theatre in the 1964 edition of Stubs shows an orchestra floor with 26 rows (marked A-Z). The orchestra seats were divided into three sections across, the center one somewhat wider than the two side sections. The right side section facing the screen had a "party room" covering the seats in rows W-Z. The upstairs seating was divided into three sections, a loge at the front with four rows (marked A-D), a mezzanine with eleven rows (marked A-L), and a balcony behind that with ten rows (marked M-W). The loge section had wider seats and was divided into three sections across. The mezzanine and balcony had four sections of seats across, two wide ones in the center, and two narrow ones next to the side walls. When the upstairs was sub-divided, the loge section was eliminated, and a wall was built straight down the middle of the mezzanine-balcony section. Each new auditorium had two sections of seats-- a wide one, and a narrow one against the far wall. The screens occupied the space of the former loge.

BOBill,
It seems very strange to me that the first presentation of Cinerama would be a float. I would think that they would have wanted the curtains to open on a normal size screen and then on the words This is Cinerama to open on an ever widening screen. To launch such a project this would be the only possible way.

I saw "This Is Cinerama" at the Broadway Theatre and could almost swear that a curtain covered the screen before the performance started and during intermission. In those days, it was unheard of to show a bare screen, even in last-run dumps. When I first experienced it in the 1960s, I was shocked and repelled, and still am.

I also saw "This Is Cinerama" early in its run at the Broadway and confirm Warren's recall that a curtain definitely covered the screen. I remember being somewhat disappointed after the lights dimmed, the curtain parted and Lowell Thomas appeared on a small squarish screen chatting about something or other and wondering... What is all the excitement about ? ?....and then Lowell uttered those immortal words..."and now ladies and gentlemen...This is Cinerama" and the top masking of the picture flew up....the curtains parted..and parted...and parted...the surround sound came on and you were on a roller coaster ride. For me, that was the most thrilling moment in a lifetime of moviegoing that I have ever experienced. I still get goosebumps thinking about it. By no stretch of the imagination could such an effect be achieved without a curtain covering the screen.

Vincent, Warren, and ErwinM:
Absolutely, Cinerama at the Broadway in ‘52-’53 did use curtains—deep blue at the Broadway, then burgundy at the Warner. But the Broadway did not use a top or bottom mask for the prologue. That offered the first hint to this ten-year-old that the newpaper reviews might be trusted, that the curtains would part and the screen would burst into color with stereo sound. I too felt a letdown when Lowell Thomas began to drone in b&w, but when his talk turned to the history of film and its technology, it enthralled me almost as much as the main event did eighteen minutes later. When Cinerama moved to the Warner in Spring ’53, the new theater provided top and bottom masks for the prologue. In both cases, the opening of the curtains proved essential to the new medium’s overwhelming effect. Sorry for my mistake in terminology: I thought “float” referred to a free-standing screen positioned in front of the proscenium
BoxOfficeBill

Warren I went to the Walter Reade the other night and was put out by the fact that they weren't using the curtain(is this permanent?) I think this was the last theater that used one. When I went to comment to the staff in the lobby they looked at me as if I was certifiable. I suppose if this bothers me maybe I am.

Vincent
Having been a theatre manager for many yers I too hate not seeing curtains open and close between features. One of the theatres I used to manage had a short in the line that ran from the projection booth to the curtain motor. The owners did not want to spend the money to repair it so we had an usher who would go and press the button backstage before and after every show. I know when I was on duty I always made sure he did it as the picture hit the screen and on the rating symbol on the end. In all of the Loews theatres that show the video or slides between features I wish they would close the curtain as the video ends and reopen it on the feature. The Loews Trylon did that till it closed, guess it was an old time manager who ran the place. They had Austrian drapes.

Since the Mayfair is the last movie palace left in Times Sqaure from the old days maybe the City of New York could declare it a landmark and eligble for federal and state funds. Why couldn't a new building incorporate the theatre the way the Palace was down the street.The excuse I have always heard from New York City is that they have so many legit theatres and this is why there are no movie palaces left in the Times Sqaure Area. Im afraid London has done a better job preserving movie theatres in the West End and they also have many legit theatres. New York City has gone from having some of the best movie theatres in the world to having theatres now that in many cases are not even on par with theatres you see in the suburbs across the US.New York City maybe one of the few large cities in the US that has not restored a large movie palace in there entertainment Zone called Times Sqaure because I regard Radio City as outside Times Sqaure.
Here are some examples of Restored Movie Palaces in Entertainment Zones in the US

Seattle Paramount and Fifth Ave
Portland Portland(Paramount)
San Francisco Orpheum,Warfield and Golden Gate
Oakland Paramount and Fox Oakland(resoration in progress)
San Jose California(opens in Sept)
Hollywood Chinese,El Capitan,Pantagees Egyptian not eligible
Los Angeles Orpheum,United Artists(Church) many unrestored
San Diego Fox(Copley),Balboa and Sprecles
Phoenix Orpheum
Dallas Majestic
San Antonio Majestic and Aztec(under restoration}
Denver Paramount
St Louis Fox and St.Louis(Powell)
Kansas City Midland
Minneapolis Orpheum,State and Pantagees
Chicago Chicago,Oriental and Palace
Detroit Fox,State and Grand Circus(Opera House)
Cleveland Palace,State,Allen and Ohio
Columbus Ohio,Palace and Southern
Indianapolis Indiana and Circle
Buffalo Sheas Buffalo
Pittsburg Heinz Hall(Loew's Penn),Benedlum(Stanley)and Byham
Baltimore Hippodrome
Providence Ocean State(Providence)
Boston Wang(Metropolitan),Majestic(Saxon) and Opera House
Wash DC Warner
Richmond Carpenter
New Orleans Saengar and unrestored Loew's State
Jacksonville Florida
Tampa Tampa
Miami Guzman(Olympia)
Birmingham Alabama
Omaha Orpheum and Astro(Rose)
Albany Palace
Syracuse Landmark
Salt Lake Capitol
Louisville Palace
Memphis Orpheum
Jersey City Loew's Jersey and Stanley(Church
Albuquerque Kimo
Tuscon Fox and Rialto

These are a few examples and there are many more. New York City along with Phildelphia, and Cincinatti are among the worst in saving historic movie palaces.brucec

It's not very easy to landmark a building in NYC, especially both the entire interior and the exterior. I once lived in an apartment house where only the lobby was a landmark and the rest of the building wasn't!...The ex-Mayfair-DeMille-Embassy 3-4-5 isn't the only large movie theatre still existing in the Times Square area. There's also the ex-Hollywood-Mark Hellinger at 51st Street, just off Broadway, now used as a church. But the auditorium is still virtually unchanged from Thomas Lamb's original decor and could easily be restored to a movie palace with minimal expense in comparison to what it would cost to restore the Mayfair.

On the "Psycho" DVD there's an excellent documentary where you can see the outside of the DeMille as it was in 1960. And I mean all of it: the box-office booth with ticket prices posted, the lobby, all kinds of posters and displays, the marquee and the big corner billboard, the sidewalk outside where people waited in a special line(for the first time in movie history, probably) for the current show to be over and for the next show to begin, etc.

Warren I agree with you about the Hollywood-Mark Hellinger but it will never return to being a movie palace. The Mark Hellinger would be a legit theatre right now if the church would give it up and move to another location. Disney would love to operate the Mark Hellinger like the New Amsterdam. Im sure the Nederlanders have first choice if the church chooses to sell or lease it out since they sold it to the church in the first place. The Mark Hellinger is the perfect size house to host broadway musicals. Cameron M. wanted the Mark Hellinger for "Miss Saigon" but the Nederlanders leased it to the church because they needed the money to offset the flop "Legs Diamond" with Peter Allen.The Broadway community was upset with the Nederlanders for doing so. Many musical shows coming into New York have to wait for a theatre like the Mark Hellinger which has caused a booking jam the last few years.brucec

I was in NYC yesterday taking photos and i went to thhe old Embassy/DeMille?mayfair and took pictures. The marquee is still there, boarded up and I got a shot of the exterior of the theater which I'm sure was complemented by being the DeMille/Mayfair. I bet it was nice to look at even by my picture. Cinema Treasures is overhauling it's "add a photo" options. When it is fixed, I will add the photo to this site. I also took pics of The Astor plaza, now closed, with The Village marquee.

BTW...how would I add a photo to my message as a link, if that can be done?

The Embassy 2,3,4 was rechristened as the Embassy 1,2,3 after the original Embassy 1 closed it doors in 1997, in anticipation of its renovation and reopening as the permanent home of the Times Square Visitors Center. (For the record, the TSVC was previously housed in the lobbies of the Rialto/Warner, Harris, and Selwyn theatres.)

When the theater was tripled it was opened as the Mark 1,2,3 and didn't stay open very long. Guild took over the theater and ran it for many years. The information above is incorrect.
The only thing I am not sure of is about the downstairs theater. I remember applying for a job at the Demille in 1975 when it went to a 2nd run house and there was a large stage. The two times I went to the theater after it was split there was no stage downstairs.I think that when it was first tripled, they took part of the orchestra and converted into a tore. As I rememebr the downstairs theater was not very large.

The original entrance and grand lobby is now the Sbarro restaurant on the corner. The current location of the marquee is an exitway off of the back of the auditorium which served as its entrance after it was triplexed. It was indeed called the Embassy 1-2-3 after the Embassy 1 closed.

Sorry, Joe, but the original entrance to the Mayfair was just about where it is now. It was never on the corner, which has always been occupied by something else. When it first opened as the RKO Mayfair, the corner was occupied by Nedick's fast food (see full page photo on page 102 of "The Movie Buff's Book," by Ted Sennett). The Mayfair gave the impression of having a corner entrance because of a huge billboard that wrapped around the building at Seventh Avenue & 47th Street. The marquee of the RKO Mayfair was also gigantic, streching from that corner to the entrance, which was about 75-100 feet north of 47th Street. After Nedick's, there were three retail stores before you got to the Mayfair's entrance.

Does anybody know where one can obtain color photos of the Demille wrap around sign from the 60's when it was a roadshow house? From what I remember as a child it was pretty spectacular. The back of the Rivoli was very nice too and I wouldn't mind seeing photos of that from the same time period as well. And while we're at it how about the marquee of the Criterion. Remember the spinning Funny Girl logos that sat atop the corners?

By the time of the DeMille, the wraparound billboard on the corner of the building had lost much of its impact. I'm not sure that it was even regularly used for advertising movies because the cost was prohibitive. In the 1932 photo that I mentioned above, the space was divided by a flashing vertical sign with RKO at the top and Mayfair spelled one letter at a time below that. The portion to the right (the 47th Street side) was a permanent "institutional" sign with the flashing message "There's A Better Show At RKO Theatres." The portion to the left of the vertical, above the Seventh Avenue entrance, was a billboard for the current attraction (Universal's "Air Mail" in this case).

When exactly did it stop showing movies as the DeMille...My guess is 1974...I remember seeing The Concert for Bangla Desh there in the summer of '72

Warren,
During the '60s the Demille along with the block long sign above the
Astor and the Victoria had the best NY movie billboards. They were sensational in 3 D and with moving parts(Unless I was delusional at 8 years old.) And the picture I've seen of the giant nude Jane Fonda! This should be in color in a coffee table book of the great Manattan movie signs and marquees. It was at the beginning of the '70s when they stopped using the billboard. The last movie I remember it being used for was Ginger. Then it was used for years for that boring Panasonic ad.
By the way folks. Looks like Toys R Us is going, going... Time to rebuild the Criterion.

Wasn't Artkraft Strauss responsible for all those type of signs, if so maybe they have an archive at their headquaters in NYC. I for one would love to see a book of all the theatre advertising during the glorious heyday of Times Square.

Theater fan,
For years I have been looking in vain for a book just like that. With all the NY photo books why hasn't somebody done a book of all the billboards and marquees of Broadway and Times Square from the beginning of the century through the end of the '60s?

Vincent,
You might want to check out Artkraft's website: www.artkraft.com, they do have a lot of famous historical photo's in the gallery section, some even feature movie theatre advertising. You can see many theatres that are no longer with us like the Rivoli, Criterion, etc.

Hopefully one day someone will put together a book of famous marquees and billboards of Times Square, with all the changes to the Square and all the interest surrounding it I can't see why it wouldn't sell well.

Thanks theater fan, except when I click on it it says the site doesn't exist anymore.

Mikeoaklamdpark,
Try it this way: http://www.artkraft.com/
I think that should work!

Thanks, Theatrefan. Those pictures are wonderful. I also never knew that the Winter Garden ever showed movies, and good ones, too ("Stairway to Heaven").

Your welcome Bill,
It must have shown them at one point during its history and then been converted back to a legit theatre like the RKO Palace was.

You can see pictures of the Winter Garden as a movie theatre on the Criterion DVD of "The Killers" with Burt Lancaster.

Looking at those picture of Times Square during that era, was when Times Square was worth going to than now.

Warren posted on March 12 that the Columbia's first show was emceed by a Charles Howard, jewish dialect comedian. Does anyone know anything about this Charles Howard, or where information can be found?

tlm

Something is going on with this theater today. There is scaffolding directly underneath the marquee. Does anyone know what's up with this? Is it the beginnning of the end for the old DeMille?

There are several B&W exterior photos of this theatre as the Mayfair in the new book, "Times Square Style," by Vicki Gold Levi & Steven Heller. You can see the various changes that took place as the RKO Mayfair, Loew's Mayfair, and Brandt's Mayfair. Also shown are the huge corner signs that advertised the 1932 "Air Mail" and the 1955 "Underwater!" and "Sitting Bull." There is also one color shot from 1969 showing the DeMille in the distance, but it's too far away to make out what was displayed on the marquee. However, the corner sign seems to be for "Battle of Britain."

I wish I could get close up color photos of the the '60s corner signs. I remember seeing as an insert on the Family Affair(Brian Keith)show a brief shot of the Hawaii sign.

A few notes about the Russian KinoPanorama showings at the Mayfair(DeMille, Embassy 1 or 2,3,4). In spite of the advertisements, the full 9 channels were not used, only 7, leading the "Variety" reviewer to comment that there was no loss there "as the narration borders on the inane." The screen measured 60 x27 feet, the 3 projectors were the same ones used a year earlier at the Roxy for the CineMiracle presentation of "Windjammer." Apparently, after the first week or so, public interest waned. By the 3rd week, box office grosses weren't even reported to "Variety," sure sign of embarrassment. The first attraction, "Great Is My Country" dragged on until mid-July 1959 when the second feature "The Enchanted Mirror" replaced it. So dismal was the business then that both films were shown together, something of a first for 3-panel presentation, and probably a boon for the concession stand in that the audience now had the opportunity to grab a bite to eat during all of two film changes plus two intermissions. Interestingly enough, later that year when exhibitor Walter Reade Jr (who now owned the theatre) was elected to the Board of Directors of Cinerama, Inc., he made noises to the press that Cinerama would from then on premiere at this theatre in New York. The Loews-Cinerama Inc deal less than a month later put the kabosh on that idea.

Has anyone been by to see if this is being gutted?

I walked by yesterday. It looks like the scaffolding is there because a large billboard is about to be placed on the building above the marquee. Nothing else appeared to be going on.

The theatre first opened as the DeMille on December 8, 1959, with the world premiere of "the first all-scent film," "Behind the Great Wall." The cost of renovations, including the installation of equipment for the AromaRama process, was reported as $300,000. The DeMille closed in September, 1974, after a fire broke out in the loge and balcony areas, causing $250,000 in damage. Walter Reade ceased operating the theatre, but after repairs were made, the DeMille re-opened in August 1975 under lease to Nat Koeppel, who installed a subsequent-run policy of double features at $1.50 admission, starting with Paramount's "Once Is Not Enough" & "Serpico." In 1976, Koeppel sold his lease to Maurice Maurer, who intended to triplex the theatre into XXX venues, but was thwarted by NYC authorities. Instead, Maurer opened it on November 24, 1976 as the Mark I, II and III, booked by Donald Rugoff, with a $1 admission policy starting with the "war classics" "The Longest Day," "Sands of Iwo Jima," and "Battleground," to be followed at Christmas by "Carrie" on two screens and "The Omen" on the third. I don't know how long this policy lasted, but Maurer eventually sold his lease to Embassy, which re-named the three sites.

The interior of the Embassy 2-3-4, at least from what I've gleaned from peeks through the boarded-up entrance, is still intact (not accounting for, I imagine, spots of chipped paint, fallen bits of plaster, bits of water damage, and so on).

This theater was a dump

The introduction has some major errors. The Mayfair was built and owned by Walter Reade (Senior) who leased it to RKO prior to its 1931 opening. In March 1933, RKO broke its lease with Reade because it was dropping vaudeville at its nearby Palace for an all-movies policy. Reade himself ran the Mayfair until June, 1935, when Loew's took a ten-year lease to make up for the loss of Loew's New York Theatre due to the demolition of the old Olympia complex. The New York's policy of three changes per week of double-feature programs was switched to the Mayfair, though Loew's later changed it to playing day-and-date with Loew's neighborhood houses. When Loew's lease expired in 1945, it was reluctant to renew because of a pending federal anti-trust action against the company, so the Brandt circuit leased the Mayfair and ran it until Walter Reade Theatres, now based in New Jersey and run by the deceased founder's son, decided to become a major player in NYC exhibition and took back the theatre.

The last time this theatre was maintained was when it was a Reade theatre. The Embassys were barely cleaned and zero renovating took place.

It looks like they are going to cover more of the front of the building on the 7th Avenue side above the marquee. There are about 6 new holes cut into the building front.

There is a very nice shot of the De Mille Theatre ("War and Peace"-"Vojna i mir" Russia 1968 on the marquee) in the opening credits of "Sweet Charity" (1969). You can pause it on the dvd-Chapter 2 after the overture-3.01-3.04 minutes in.

Didn't the DeMille open SPARATACUS on October 7, 1960 and run it for almost 2 years?

There were stories in the papers again about the shortage of legit houses. I wish someone would convert this, but I can imagaine the rent must be huge. I wounder how long a lease the church has on the Mark Hellinger?

I hear rumors that someone has just about to sign a long term lease on the DeMille and do a major renovation. Anybody hear the same thing?

Interesting... I trust if there's a Cinema Treasures member who can confirm that, it would be William...

>>I wonder how long a lease the church has on the Mark Hellinger?

Answer, from Hollywood Thearer page:
By 1989, the Nederlander Organization, the current owners, leased the theater to a church group. Three years later, the building was sold for $17 million and became the home for the Times Square Church.

I was by the theater today and the "For Lease" sign is still up.

I have a photo of the Embassy 2-3-4 with marquee loaded with titles and lit up. I'll e-mail it to someone if they want to post it.

Don, I would love to receive the photo you have. Please send it to kwekubruni2000@yahoo.com Thanks in advance.

The Columbia Theater was opened as the main theater of the Columbia Amusement Company, aka the Columbia Wheel or the Eastern Wheel. My Grandfather, Samuel A. Scribner, was the General manager and co-founder of the company. The Columbia Wheel operated 42 burlesque houses throughout the North-East from Chicago to Boston (Canada, too.) In its hayday the circuit would have something like 42 separate shows performing. Each week each show would rotate from one theater to another along the wheel. Three of the theaters in the wheel were in New York and Brooklyn, and the Columbia was the centerpiece. If you look closely at the Seventh Avenue exterior wall of the building, you will see, running up the wall, a small relief image of the head of a woman at each story -- I believe that is the image of "Columbia". The Company offices were in the building, around the 7th or 8th floor, according to my (late) father. Thge entrance to the office was on 47th Street. Other big-wigs in the business were John Herbert Mack and Rudolph Hynicka (Hynicka was the "boss" of the Cincinatti political machine, which he ran from his office at 47th and 7th.) The Columbia Circuit made zillions of dollars in the decade before 1919 and then lost zillions of dollars in the years thereafter. The Bronxville, NY Historical Conservancy ran a long article on Sam Scribner, including the Columbia Theater, in its 2004 publication.

Yeah, that is a shame that the Mark Hellinger Theatre was turned into a church. I remember seeing "Legz Diamond" there and then remember how it was pilloried by the critics and quickly closed. The Hellinger was a beautiful theatre.

I used to work in the Times Square area and attended the Embassy Theatres many times, sneaking out on my lunch hour. The Embassies were pits, though.

Reading all the above comments about restoring the DeMille/Embassy as a cinematheque and/or Cinerama venue, FYI, I have sent the following letter on bringing Cinerama back to NY -- with some changes, depending on the recipient -- to the Mayor's Office, to the NY Tourism Company, Loew's, Clearview Cinemas and all the papers. But no one seems to be interested, specially Mayor Mike. All he cares about is forcing people to smoke outside buildings and build the West Side Stadium, which will create traffic chaos in the area. Here is the letter -- the version sent to Loew's -- and I am sorry I forgot to mention the DeMille:
"I am sorry the Astor Plaza in Times Square closed. The Astor Plaza was one of my favorite theaters where I always tried to see a movie that interested me. I always sought that space could have been converted to a Cinerama theatre, but it did not come to pass. My interest in Cinerama comes from having been MGM’s publicity and theater manager in Puerto Rico in the 1960’s, and helped launch Cinerama in Puerto Rico with “How The West Was Won.”
As both Loews and Times Square are celebrating 100 years, have you considered constructing a Cinerama Theater with both triple projection and 70mm capability; or installing Cinerama at one of the bigger auditoriums on the E-Walk as your big centenary celebration?
Cinerama debuted right here in New York City at the Broadway Theatre on September 1952. Yet, while Seattle and Los Angeles have Cinerama theatres, New York, “The Capital of the World,” does not. I am sure a Cinerama theater in Times Square, “the crossroads of the world,” would be a terrific tourist attraction bringing movie loving visitors from around the country – and the world -- to the city.
Besides Cinerama, the theater could show 70mm spectaculars like “Lawrence of Arabia” “as they were intended to be seen,” as Loews says in the promotion of its film classic series. Also, the venue could be used for other movie attraction such as a 3D festival like they had at the Egyptian Theatre in Los Angeles in the summer. Except for the occasional double projection 3D film at the Film Forum, most contemporary New Yorkers have not seen double projection 3D, just as they have not seen Cinerama.
Last summer both the American Museum of the Moving Image and the Walter Reade Theater celebrated 50 years of wide screen movies. It’s ironic that it was Cinerama that started it all right here in New York City, and we don’t have a Cinerama theater. Let’s bring back Cinerama to its birthplace, New York City."
Andres Roura

On second thoght, why not a letter writing campaign on saving the DeMille to the mayor, the tourism office and anyone else you can think off? It might work. Andres.

The Ziegfeld Theatre would make a greater impact if it was Cinerama equipped. In a few of the above posts people have talked about the wrap around sign of the building. In the last few months they have added another sign covering more of the front of the building. One problem with using that signage is that the Broadway shows pay a lot of money now on the signage. And no one has been wanting to pay the rent for the theatre that the landloads want. (about two years ago or so it was one million a year for the theatre) Once that old lease ran out it went UP.

Just curious, and I apologize if this has been asked before, but I know where the present marquee is for the Embassy 2,3,4 (aka Mayfair) but what is the marquee just north of it for? Right now it has the ad for the American Girl store and underneath it says "Sage Theater". Was this ever a movie house?

Also, I've read a lot about The Mayfair. It sounds like at one time it was a fairly important theater. From the looks of it on the street now, you'd have a really hard time believing that it ever mattered. When did the present marquee go up? The 60's or so?

Just one more thing to add: from my office, I can look directly down onto the old Mayfair and see the roof of the auditorium. It looks pretty big. For some reason, this site makes me feel sad. Such a place that was once filled with people. Now a relic. People walking up and down 7th Avenue probably never give a thought on what lies beyond.

The marquee to the north of the Embassy 2,3,4 (DeMille) was the Westside Cinema. Before and after that it was a porn house.

If my memory is correct there was the Agee Twin Theatres on that same block some time in the mid 70"s which was also north of the Demille but I'm not sure if that became the Westside Cinema or not. I also believe the Agee Twin might have become the Mark 1 and 2 also not 100% psitive but relying on my memory...

Look at the incredible display for "The Day the Earth Stood Still" on the DemIlle.

http://www.nytimes.com/nytstore/photos/americanexp/1950/NSAPFS1.html

After a fire in the DeMille, it was triplexed and renamed the Mark 1, 2, 3.

Circa 1980's, a look at the Embassy 2,3,4 Theatre
http://www.kilduffs.com/theatres_NYC_Embassy234.jpg

In the 1980s photo, the entrance has been cut in half to accommodate the donut shop. The new marquee, of course, is also much smaller than the previous one.

You know, I never noticed that the donut shop took up half the DeMille front. Did they transform half the lobby into the donut shop?

The entrance lobby was never very deep, so I assume that half of it became the donut shop.

Yes Don, the lobby was cut in half all the way back to the doors into the orchestra. The Donut Shop occupied half the lobby for about 12 feet in and then after that it was the box office. It was redecorated so you really weren't aware of it, cream and gold with big mirrors and wall brackets down the sides to open the narrow space up a little.

If I had to see a film here I would always sit at the front of the downstairs auditorium. You could see the old dome way high above and the architectural features of the proscenium and sidewalls were just painted out black or maroon when they triplexed it. Even a chandelier hanging there but unlit. The old seats remained and it was only carpetted down the aisles. I quite often killed time here wondering how I would restore the place. It had a unusual quirky decorative theme underneath all that paint. Kind of like an art deco/moorish feel to it. The upstairs theatres were in the balcony and they had just put a wall up and it was pretty basic inside those boxes. Love to see more pics of it in its heydey.

I have a B&W photo taken in 1932 of the original marquee and vertical signs as the RKO Mayfair. I would be happy to send it as an IMG.jpg attachment to anyone who contacts me at Warrengwhiz@nyc.rr.com

On the listing for the Embassy, RobertR posted a very nice picture of the Embassy during it's newsreel days but you can clearly see the marquee for the Mayfair as well. What intrigues me is where was the actual entrance lobby to the Mayfair itselft. Is it where it is (kind of...) today, in the middle of the block? Also, that great wraparound marquee I would say is where the Sbarro's is today. Is this correct? Or was the original entrance to Mayfair different?

The Mayfair/DeMille/Embassy 2-3-4 entrance may well have changed from the side street to 7th Avenue. A friend of mine did the projection installation when they triplexed the theatre, and I worked a number of relief shifts there when Peter Elson had it. Ben Olevsky at the Music Hall told me once that at one time the auditorium was exactly reversed from the way it is now, with the stage and screen at the 7th Avenue end. I mentioned this to the contractor when it was being triplexed and he said, "That explains it." Apparently none of the architctural drawings they could find made any sense because they were from the earlier (Mayfair?) era. A couple of other notes: Originally the triplex was to be a porno/strip tease house, and at one point construction had gotten far enough that there was a runway down the center of the orchestra and dressing rooms for the girls had been constructed backstage. Then the city said "no more porno houses in Times Square", and the theatres went to conventional fare. The balcony actually has two walls added for the triplex, with a "light tunnel" in between them so the #2 projector continued to shoot down to the screen as it had in the DeMille. The other two machines were moved left and right to former spot/lighting ports for the upstairs houses. Unfortunately the tunnel limited the width of the downstairs screen, but no one saw this as a problem since porno is not usually wider than 1.85 or 1.37. When they started running regular fare, Peter wanted to run 70mm since all of the projectors could. What they couldn't do was run it wider than the l.85 image because of the narrownes of the tunnel between the upstairs houses. Had the upstairs walls been put a little farther apart or the screen moved back toward the rear of the house a little more the image in the orchestra could have been the same as in the DeMille roadshow days.

Wouldnt it have been easier to build a small projection booth in the back of the house downstairs?

Some of the earlier plexing did it this way. It's much cheaper to do it this way, you use one projection booth. The old Culver Theatre in Culver City, California and the old Fox California Theatre in Huntington Park, California did it that way. The tunnel was also a sound buffer between the two upper theatres.

There would have been some problems with constructing a booth downstairs. The balcony is very deep and might have limited the height of the picture on screen. In addition, there was a runway put in the center of the house for the strippers, so additional seating would have been sacrificed. There might also have been a requirement for another projection crew downstairs as the State and the former Strand had. (This was the first house in New York to use Pott's platters rather than Christie -- the concept was still pretty new.) As a practical note: Short of climbing from the orchestra of the Music Hall to the booth (the Hall has an elevator to that level), the booth in the DeMille requires the most arduous cllimb of any booth I've worked in. The balcony is very steep, and even when you get to the top lobby level, there are another set of stairs going up to get to the booth (you can see the booth windows from 7th Avenue and get an idea of the climb). At one point the projectionists could go into the office building entrance on the street side of the building and take the office elevator to a level just below the booth, then enter a closet and climb the emergency booth exit ladder up one flight to the booth. Eventually the office building management rescinded that courtesy and the crew had to climb up from the street level entrance. Once you got up there you didn't want to leave until your shift was over!

Regarding the original entrance to the Mayfair, if you look at the amazing picture that Warren offers (and I got) the entrance back in 1932 is pretty much exactly where it exsits today. It appears that the Mayfair had a sweet deal with the landlord in that it allowed them to have one helluva marquee covering the building. I don't think the entrance was ever on the side street. I could be wrong.

But I don't get the idea that the theater was originally inverted meaning that the screen was on 7th Ave. My office looks right down onto the Mayfair's auditorium and it looks like the curtain building (forgive my lack of correct terminology but it's the taller portion of the structure where, I imagine, the curtain would be stored UP while the movie was playing) is in the rear of the building, not on 7th.

The Mayfair's entrance was always on Seventh Avenue, and quite a bit north of the corner with 47th Street. The majority of theatres on main thoroughfares did not have corner entrances, since street corners were highly desired by retailers and could command a high rent that would be an additional source of income for the building's owner. Of course, there were always exceptions. In NYC, for example, the Roxy and RCMH had corner entrances, but the Paramount, Capitol, Strand, Mayfair, State, Criterion (second), and Rivoli did not.

I've always wondered about Ben's story of the auditorium being reversed as well, but apparently the plans the contractor came up with supported that idea. Perhaps Warren could tell us if the Mayfair did stage presentations, or was strictly a film house. If you look at the front of the building on the 7th Avenue side, the first set of windows above the arches over the marquee are the current booth windows. That's several floors up, so they could have had a good sized screen at that end, and if they weren't doing stage shows could have used a travelling title curtain which wouldn't have required a stage house and fly foor or grid. At some point they may have revised the house to accomodate stage presentations. The stage area as it now exists isn't very deep. The projectionist's union office looked down on the building for a time, and seen from there the offices are wrapped around the auditorium. At one point the city wouldn't allow a structure to be built over an auditorium for safety reasons, so the Mayfair auditorium space is clearly visible from above. Warren, any clues from your material to indicate a significant remodeling at some point under the various management of the theatre?

REndres. The current Mayfair/DeMille was built in exactly the format it still remains in. The entrance was in 7th Avenue and had a wraparound marquee into 47th Street. The marquee was just a marketing feature that enabled the theatre to advertise big and large to a Times Square audience. They would have paid the owners of the building a hefty price to rent that space and eventually the agreement expired and the marquee was removed.

The auditorium was in the same place now that it was built in. The back of the balcony was at the 7th Avenue end facing east. There was a screen at the eastern end that was placed in a stage house with a flying grid. It was built as a movie house and therefore did not have a deep stage facility. All there would have been in the stage house was several drapes that would be raised horizontally as well as vertically, various screens and the speakers. The street frontage you can see in the 1980's photo features a blacked out set of arched windows above the marquee. This was the old lounge area on the way to the balcony seats.

The alterations made to the building when it was triplexed into the Embassy 2,3,4 were minimal but consisted of building the two box theatres in the old balcony. They halved the lobby, gaining space for the Donut Shop and then redecorated the lobby. It was only possible to do this because of the much reduced seating capacity of the theatre. They then proceeded to paint out the entire auditorium in black (or maybe it was dark purple) It was possible to sit in the downstairs auditorium and see all the original architectural features beneath the paint. The original seats were still in use.

HOWEVER, what your friend may be right about instating that the plans were all wrong, is that the Mayfair was built within a previous theatres site. The Columbia was gutted in 1930 and the Mayfair built within its walls. Perhaps that’s where the confusion arises?

Porter Faulkner: you confirm what I can clearly see from my office window above the Embassy 2,3,4/Mayfair/DeMille.

My company has been in the development stages of a project which would renovate the theater into a "production house" suitable for multi use. We have not been successful in finalizing the project due to many reasons but I thought I would just get feedback from those who seem to have great interest in this property. Our plans would create a live performance venue that could be used for theatrical, concert, taping and broadcast as well as select movie and video presenations. All product would be "family" or "G rated".

I never noticed this before in other images or recalled it in my own memories, but in the 1986 photo Thomas linked to in his post this past Sunday, there appears to be a dash after the '4' in the signage. If there's to be any credence taken in that, seemingly Peter Elson considered carving at least one additional screen out of either the orchestra or the former balcony.

To Wednesday White Man: I doubt that you will hear any arguements against what you propose. I think the theater's site is amazing. The only thing I THINK people on this site would like to see (aside from the Mayfair's deserved refurbishment...) is that it be named appropriately.

Can I ask what is preventing finalizing of your plans?

The Mayfair never presented stage shows with the films. I don't think it even had stage facilities beyond a platform for the screen. It was purpose built for sound movies and first opened in 1930, a time when vaudeville was in its death throes. Also, theatres of that size (under 2,000 seats) in major cities like New York usually weren't used for movie/stage presentations. That was reserved for the bigger houses of upwards of 3,000 seats.

Porter Faulkner: I think it must have been the Columbia that Ben Olevsky was talking about when he said the auditorium was reversed. Before he was Head Projectionist at the Hall he worked in a lot of other theatres in the city so may have actually worked at the Columbia. The idea of it being gutted and revised is what I was asking about in the above post. Was the office building wrapped around it as it is now and were the original auditorium walls retained in the construction? I was in and out of the theatre a number of times during the triplexing, but when I worked there I don't remember ever going into the downstairs auditorium and only saw it from the booth. I do remember the architectural details remaining the same during the triplexing. I was also in the theatre a couple of times in between the time Walter Reade operated it and the time it became the Mark 1-2-3 when it was operated as an impossibly cheap dollar house. At that time the smoke damage from the fire was still evident in the balcony. Another feature from its roadshow days that was still there was a set of five huge Altec A4 speaker systems hung above the proscenium. They were installed when the "Concert for Bangledesh" was played in 70mm and the producers wanted better sound coverage in the upper balcony area for the filmed rock concert. Apparently it was considered too much trouble or too expensive to get them down since they were still hanging up there when I worked there. Its possible the black or dark blue paint was put on to cover the smoke damage up. I doubt that Peter had any plans to add another screen. I think it was his first multiple screen theatre and he only inherited it when the plans for the porno/striptease venue fell through. It would certainly be great to see it restored and put to theatrical use again.

One asked why we haven't finalized the project at 701 7th. Quite honestly, it's the numbers.

CConnolly, why dont u take a pic for us. Be great to see it from above and even some from the street if you had the time. Please ;-)

I cant even fathom painting a theatre black or purple, but Elson ran this place into the ground from day 1.

Two items.

Porter Faulkner: I will take some pictures. I just never thought people would be interested in what it looks like from above. I think it's fascinating and it's what got me interested in this theater. I'll take some of the front now. It's a sad site.

Wednesday White Man: when you talk about the numbers, I assume you mean that the owner wants lot of $$$$. I can imagine. Whether you like what they are doing in and around Times Square, real estate is HOT HOT HOT. And this is prime. But from what I can see above, I cannot determine if the Mayfair is it's own building or whether it's tied into the ones around it. I think that might be what's complicating it's sale.

I don't think many people are aware of this place's history and such. Perhaps if people did, more would/could be done to save it.

Has any work been done inside since it closed?

I don't know if the Columbia ever served as a cinema. I've never seen evidence of it, and it is not listed in the early Film Daily Year Books. It may have presented burlesque only, and I mean in the old-fashioned sense of the word, without stripteasers and "blue" comedians. It was also not even 20 years old when replaced by the Mayfair, which suggests that it was unsuited to showing movies. For more of the Columbia's history, see postings above dated March 12, 2004 (by yours truly) and February 25, 2005 (by someone related to the builders of the Columbia).

As far as I know, there hasn't been any work done to the Embassy/Mayfair since it closed. The lobby - as difficult as it is to peer in through all the bills plastered across the boarded-up entranceway - appears to still be intact and in decent condition.

REndres: A fire? Tell me more about that. I love the fact that you were working there and didn't go into the main auditorium, just saw it from the box. I DO remember those huge speakers but could never figure why they were there, so thanks for solving that one.

CConnolly: Thanks for that I look forward to it.Views from above are very rare and always very interesting, I find. Sad I know :-)

Porter Faulkner: The fire was set (one rumor was that it was by a disgruntled projectionist) probably in the back of the balcony (that's where I remember the smoke damage when I was in the house when it was the single screen dollar house and during the triplexing.) One of the men on my crew at Radio City was working there as a relief projectionist at the time, and said that they had stayed to convert the three projectors over to 70mm since they were going to start the move-over run of "That's Entertainment" from the Ziegfeld the next day. There was enough smoke and soot to cause the theatre to close, and that was when Walter Reade walked away from it. Perhaps their lease was up and they realized the difficulty of keeping a venue of that size going. The damage (at least what I could see) didn't appear to be great, although the north end of the back of the balcony was smoked when the house reopened as a low-price theatre. The projectionist's union gave them a reduced rate with the caveat that the balcony remain closed, thus reducing the seating capacity to match the lower booth cost. There were people in the balcony when I was there, but I suspect they just wanted to sit there and snuck up, the house certainly wasn't full.

I was in the house once when it was run by Walter Reade and was their showcase house. I was still living in the Midwest and came up from a technical conference in Washington D.C. to spend the weekend in New York. "Shoes of the Fisherman" had just opened and was running roadshow in 70mm. Reade even had a VIP section in one corner of the orchestra completely walled off from the rest of the seating area which had its own speakers and which may have been vented to allow smoking. At intermission I also went up to the booth. As you have pointed out, there was no stage presentation (or much of a stage) and the house lighting and stage lighting board was in the booth (as it was at the Criterion in its one screen days.) Thus there were two projectionists and a stagehand since the lighting was under the jurisdiction of Local #1. The theatre was really beautiful in those days.

The reason I didn't go into the orchestra when I worked there was that when I came in I headed directly up to the booth. As I mentioned that is a very large climb, and once I got there I stayed there, although I did go into one of the balcony auditoriums to see what Wharhol's "Frankenstein" looked like in 3-D (quite bad as it turned out). You don't see a lot of the auditorium from the booth -- the projection and viewing ports are cut into the decorative molding you noticed around the top of the theatre, and it curve out and down, so it looks like you're watching the screen through a tunnel even when they were running 70. One thing Elson did do was to keep the curtain in the downstairs house, and it had to be closed and opened at end and start of every show. If Wednesday White Man gets the house and lowers those hanging speakers and if the lines they are anchored by are anchored by are tied to building steel above the auditorium ceiling he'll have the lines for a good sized lighting truss for his shows. Let's hope someone can the place open again -- there aren't many spaces like that left in New York these days.

Rendres:Great stuff and very informative. The fire will certainly have something to do with painting the place a very dark color.(Do you remember if it was black or a very dark purple?) It diguises the damage and also covers up the shabby job they did triplexing the place. Its so hard to believe that this was a prestige first run house and within a few years had become a dollar house. Did the 70mm equipment remain? For some reason when I saw something there in the 80's I think it was in 70mm, a very small 70mm from memory too. Can't believe they showed 3D 'Frankenstein' in one of the box theatres.

I also remember that the volume was always loud downstairs to mask the noise from the two theatres in the balcony. Quite often there was some kind of disturbance in there too. People shouting at the screen or a punch up, or people living in there all day. Always made me laugh how it was just part of the deal in Times Square in the 70's and 80's. If you went to a theatre like that, dollar house,second or third run, thats what you got.Strangely I never remember it as dirty or stinking or really threatening. Just very run down, something that at one time had been quite gracious.

Did you have to carry the film cans for all 3 theatres up to the booth?

It would be great to see it open again and restored but how could it ever pay its way as a movie theatre in that location?

I have a question, but not about the Embassy, but was there a theatre diagonally across the street from the Embassy 2,3,4 on the southwest corner of 47th Street & Broadway? It would have been directly across the street from the TKTS booth. At one time there was a Carnegie style deli there and I believe part of the building was used as a nightclub. The building looked like a theatre. It may be gone now.

I seem to remember going to this theatre in '83 when STAR WARS was revived, though I could be confusing it with the Embassy. I remember it as being a real steep theatre, that is why it may have been the Embassy.

The theatre on the opposite (west) side of Broadway at 47th Street was the original Central, later known as Gotham, Holiday, Forum, Movieland, and assorted other names. It's listed here, but I'm not sure under what name.

REndres writes: The theatre was really beautiful in those days.

REndres, could you PLEASE elaborate? I see this theater (or what's left of it...) every single day from the street level and from above. It is so hard to imagine that this theater was once so beautiful and so important. It's heartbreaking.

While I was Head Projectionist at Radio City, like most projectionists in those days, I would also work other jobs when I had the time. In a number of cases, I think the Union sent me on jobs where there had been a problem with a relief projectionist and the Union would send in "the Head Projectionist at Radio City" as a peace offering. Thus I ended up working in a number of Peter Elson houses in Manhattan. At one point he requested me for all relief assginments in all of his theatres. Thus I worked the Forum (which was co-operated by Elson and B.S. Moss at the time), the original Embassy and the Embassy 2-3-4. In reference to the Embassy 2-3-4, it was the flagship house of the Walter Reade chain when they operated it. Porter Faulkner might be better at describing the archictural detail than I, but it was quite ornate, and a major Broadway showcase. The ornamentation inside matched the style on the outside above the first floor. "Psycho" premiered there, and I believe it was the Broadway house that premiered "Spartacus" in its roadshow 70mm run. I remember that because it was the first house in the U.S. to use Cinemeccanica X 70mm projectors and the man who ran the company that imported them was instrumental in getting me out of broadcasting and into projection. Those machines were still there and operating when I worked there in the late '70's. It was also the house that ran the Russian "War and Peace" in two four hour segments. I'm sure Warren could supply a list of some of the big attractions that played there and Michael Coate undoubtedly has a list of the 70mm roadshow attractions. When the Ziegfeld opened Reade had his office there, and it replaced the Embassy 2-3-4 (the DeMille in those days) as the Reade flagship house. When I started working as a relief operator at the Ziegfeld the company was in bankruptcy so that might have played a role in pulling out of the larger venue. Sheldon Gunsberg headed up Reade in those days and was probably the last of the really nice knowledgable theatre operators in the city. At some point I should ask his daughter about what happened with the DeMille as she worked for Reade handling special events at the time the DeMille was closed. She would be a great resource about the theatre's history in the Reade days since she would have been very close to the decisions made about it. I might quibble about the statement that the volume downstairs was loud to mask the sound from the upstairs theatres. Those theatres' walls really were pretty well built, and they only had small mono sound systems. In fact one of the speakers was hand built at Radio City. Some members of the sound crew at Radio City were experimenting with building a small theatre speaker to compete with the Altec A-7, and my friend who was doing the projection work in the triplex came up one speaker short when they were triplexing the place and asked the head of the sound department at Radio City, who he worked with on outside projects if he could help him out. Thus one of the "experimental" speakers got moved over to the balcony house at the Embassy. If the downstairs volume was too loud it was probably beacuse the staff wasn't paying attention, and as I've mentioned the booth crew pretty much stayed in the booth because of the arduous climb and really had no way of knowing how loud the sound was in the downstairs house other than by communicating with the staff. As a relief operator I didn't have to carry film up to the booth, and I doubt that the projectionists did in those days either. The union had a rule about not carrying film to the booth to protect the older operators, since most theatre had ushers or other younger staff members more able to make the trek. Since the Reade DeMille was a Broadway house, most of the projectionists were those who had seniority or were requested, and probably would have gone into cardiac arrest if they had to carry film up that far. (They did have the use of the elevator in the office portion of the building for a time, and that would have gotten the film up to one level below the booth, and I suppose they could have dropped a line down the fire ladder and hoisted the film up that way, I'm not sure which would have been harder!) I don't remember whether the the paint job was black or dark blue, but I do remember the house being lit in gold light (much like Radio City) when I saw "Fisherman" there. The booth light board was taken out when they triplexed the house, but it did run pretty much across the width of the booth at one end, and had quite a few dimmers, so the house lighting was really attractive.

Gold light, eh? Sounds really wonderful. So, since "Shoes of the Fisherman" premiered in 1968, the DeMille was still in good shape. When did the triplexing take place? Does anyone know if the theater slowly deteriorated or were efforts made to maintain it?

I think the triplexing took place in the middle 70's. In 1975 when i was there in Aug they were reopening the Demille as a $1.00 house. When I moved to NYC in late 1976 it was triplex and called the Mark 3 which didn't last long. It was closed for a while and in the late 70's Guild took it and reopended it as the Embassy 2,3,4. The two times I was there I was always in the downstaurs theater. They kept the original curtain from the Demille, but the small stage was gone.

So, in not even 10 years, the DeMille (The Mayfair) goes from an A list Roadshow house in lovely condition to a slovenly $1.00 bargain house. Ugh. I guess I (we) shouldn't be surprised as that is how things were in Times Square back then but it still seems so sad.

Look on the bright side -- the plans to make it a porn house with live (who would want to see dead?) strippers never materialized. One of the most beautiful restorations I've ever seen is of the Rapp and Rapp Orpheum in Galesburg, Illinois. I spend time there every summer researching its history and I think its ironic that it started with a live symphony orchestra and is now home to the Central Illinois symphony so its come full circle, but at one point it did run porn. So did the Art in Champaign, Illinois after a run as one the most successful art and foreign film theatres in the country. Now its been restored as a major venue for the city by a private investor. Those changes in policy at least kept the theatres from being bulldozed. Hopefully, the fact that the Embassy 2-3-4 hasn't been torn down yet may help it to survive long enough for someone to find an appropriate and profitable use for it.

I think what's very strange (and mysterious) about The Mayfair (today) is that unless you can see if from where I can (meaning above), you really don't know it's there. The marquee is very small and unobtrusive. I think a lot of people would be surprised to learn that a major theater venue is literally hiding behind that small marquee and very nondescript entrance. I know I am.

I also think that it's location is thankfully preventing it from being creamed by the wrecking ball...for now. It's kind of "up-north" in terms of Times Square and semi off the beaten path. The Criterion's location doomed it. That sucker's right in the heart of Times Square. The Mayfair isn't.

I keep hoping to read about some kind of preservation or something but nothing happens. Only time will tell...

The New York Times runs a weekly article about NY architecture and buildings every Sunday called Streetscapes. I've E-Mail the writer of the articles, Christopher Gray, to see if perhaps they would do an article about The Mayfair (sorry, but it's such nicer name than the LAME-O Embassy 2,3,4...can we change it on this site?).

Anyway, I think it would be great to see an article about it. It might help drum up some support for it's preservation.

I like to think of it as the DeMille since it was a big deal when they changed the name, and it was during that period that it ran its big roadshows. I'm not sure about the DVD version of "Psycho" but I have the Special Edition on Laserdisc, and you can see the DeMille marquee which covered the whole entrance (before the donut shop and other shops were cut into the lobby). There's also "No one admitted after the start of the film" promo which features the theatre. I have seen shots of the Mayfair that included that huge wraparound billboard which is now segmented. They didn't need a large marquee with that sign with special displays for each attraction. The only routinely bigger one was the block long display that stretched between the Astor and Victoria on Broadway. That wraparound display gave the theatre as much presence as any of the theatres in the area even though it was on 7th and not Broadway.

I've seen a photo (from the NYTimes) of the Mayfair/DeMille when "The Day the Earth Stood Still" playing there and it's got that great, huge marquee that curved around 47th Street. But the big lit marquee that was lower is gone by that time. Does anyone know when the last movie played there that used the big, wraparound marquee?

Again, that's what amazes me about this place. How could such a prominent theater seem so utterly forgotten now? Obviously it's just me...or rather, all of us who are interested in this theater.

I have no proof, but I've been told that much of the original, wrap-around marquee was removed during WWII to provide "scrap metal" for the war effort.

I received a very nice note back from the writer of the New York Times Streetscapes column, Christopher Gray regarding my inquiry as to whether he thinks this theater warrants an article. He writes:

"Thank you for your note. I think I know this building, but will check it. For me, theatres don't work so well as subjects, but I will examine it more closely."

Can I ask that maybe others on this site E-Mail him to see if he can be persuaded to write something on this theater or, for that matter, any other theaters that might benefit from such an article?

The E-Mail address is streetscapes@nytimes.com

Christopher Gray once received an award from Theatre Historical Society of America for his NYT reportage. Since then, he has written virtually nothing about theatres! One of the reasons may be that historical information about theatres is very difficult to come by, especially movie houses. Many libraries had a sneering attitude towards cinemas and kept files only on "legitimate" theaters.

Warren, I actually asked Mr. Gray about his comment regarding theaters and that they don't work well as subjects. Here is what his reply was (received this afternoon):

"built by corporations, without the "human" touch.
buildings are formula based.
hard to associate specific people to them, except in terms of who played there, which is, for me, always a weak link.

an Eberson atmospheric, the unusual Beacon and Lane (in Staten Island), the complex Sutton Theater (really a bank) - these are the theatre stories which have worked for me.

c"

I like his articles in the Times because he highlights structures that may have otherwise gone unnoticed (sp?). In those terms, The Mayfair fits the bill because it's virtually invisible now.

I hope this link works. Someone on another theater's site posted some pictures from the NY Public Library. The link above (if it works...) is the Mayfair from 1935. The stone work above the marquee is still intact at the theater though part of it is now obscured by the large billboard.

If you can't get to it, go to the NY Public Library's digital photo website http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/index.cfm and search away. They've got some awesome pictures of the Capitol and The Roxy, ones I've never seen before!

The 1935 photo shows the original RKO Mayfair marquee from 1930, modified for the name change to Loew's Mayfair. Eventually, the marquee to the left was all that remained by the DeMille era. That marquee finally came down when the entrance was halved to accommodate a donut shop. The new and much smaller marquee installed at that time still stands.

Nice four photos Connelly at your link above. Thanks for the treat.

I wonder why this theatre is listed as Embassy-2-3-4, a period when it was in sad decline? And it's not its final name, either. I would vote for the original name of Mayfair. The nearby Strand is listed here under its original name, even though it was later sub-divided and carried other names before it fell to the wrecker's ball.

The following is excerpted from NYT film critic Mordaunt Hall's long review (11/1/1930) of the premiere attraction: "With much of the pomp and glamour attendant at Hollywood's film first nights, Radio-Keith-Orpheum's new cinema theatre, the Mayfair, which stands on the site of the old Columbia, at Broadway and Forty-seventh Street, was opened last night to a gathering that included many motion-picture chiefains and their colleagues. The screen offering for this occasion was 'Check and Double Check,' with the immensely popular radio team, Amons 'n' Andy, who in private life are, respectively, Freeman F. Gosden and Charles J. Correll. It is a lavishly decorated, spacious theatre with sparkling hangings, wonderfully comfortable seats, roomy aisles and an enormous proscenium arch. It has modernistic ideas in its architecture, with bronze, marble and sculptured plaster. Above the orchestra seats is a highly effective luminous dome. The auditorium, which includes the orchestra, loges and mezzanine, seats 2,300. This new home of the cinema has a special thermostatic control, the cooling, heating and ventilation being regulated by a turn of an electric switch. A plant of 150 tons capacity is in operation for the constant refreshing of the air at any desired temperature...Not a footfall could be heard on the thickly carpeted floor. The plush covered seats were very comfortable, and more than one tall man with long legs commented on space in the cross aisles. The opening, unlike most motion picture functions of this sort, was not delayed, and long before one expected it the program began with a short address by Will H. Hays. He was followed by Milton Aylesworth [president of NBC], who volunteered to introduce Amos 'n' Andy, just to take a bow. Then the house was darkened, and while the Stars and Stripes floated on a huge screen, said to be 22 by 24 feet, a baritone singer rendered 'The Star Spangled Banner.' Then came amusing and interesting newsreel topics and, wonder of wonders, there was no further delay in bringing 'Check and Double Check' to the same giant screen."

The last name for a short time was Embassy 1-2-3 only because the #1 single screen house had already closed.

If you look at the first photo mentioned in CConnolly's post of 5/19/05, the marquee to the left which says Loew's Mayfair at the top is over the new entrance for the theatre. The entrance to the Columbia Theatre was to the right of that, roughly under the narrower marquee that has "Special Agent" with Bette Davis on the top line. The Mayfair's entrance was apparently moved north to make way for more stores between it and the 47th Street corner. The Columbia's entrance had only two stores separating it from the corner.

The Columbia Theatre had a total seating capacity of 1,350, although the chairs seem larger than average. The upstairs seating consisted of two separate balconies, one above the other. I have several images that I would be happy to send to anyone contacting me at Warrengwhiz@nyc.rr.com

It's interesting to read that the opening movie at the Mayfair was an Amos 'n Andy film called "Check and Double Check." There is a comic song in the (terrific!) musical "Fine and Dandy" (1930) that uses the phrase "check and double check" with reference to Amos 'n Andy. I still don't completely get the joke in the song, but at least I now have an idea of what the song was getting at. (By the way, a modern day, first-time recording of this show was released on CD a few months ago, and for those interested in popular music of the 1930s it is a wonderful find -- like discovering a brand new score by George Gershwin. (Gershwin was, in fact, the boyfriend of Kay Swift, the composer of this show. Her soon to be ex-husband, Paul James, did the lyrics.)

I wonder how they added almost a thousand seats when they re-did the Columbia (1,350 seats) as the Mayfair (2,300 seats)? Just guessing from the various info that's been posted so far: A) Perhaps the Mayfair seats were a lot smaller than the slightly larger than average Columbia seats?; B) Also, maybe they increased the size of the auditorium by taking away most of the Columbia's stage? (I think they did something along these lines when Edward Durrell Stone remodeled the Gaiety as the Victoria.)

Still, that seem's like a really large number of seats to add into the unchanged shell, and footprint, of an auditorium -- especially since they didn't seem to add a balcony (as the original theater had two separate balconies), but may have actually taken a balcony away (as the movie theater had a lodge and mezzanine, and it is unclear whehter this means two different balconies, or the front and back sections of one balcony).

Then, again, since we all know that Radio City Music Hall (and other venues of the time, too) didn't always have the number of seats they were supposed to, maybe the 2,300 seat info is just PR?

I also wonder about the northward move of the theater's tunnel lobby entrance. Where can this info be located? If it's in "before and after" photos of the building, it would be interesting to see if they also redid the second and third floors of the office building when they moved the entrance. I say this because, architecturally speaking, the area above the "old" Columbia Theater entrance looks all "wrong" for an area above a theater's tunnel lobby entrance, while the area above the Mayfair's "new" marquee looks the way the area above a tunnel lobby entrance "should" look (e.g., compare it with the area above the Paramount Theater's entrance).

By the way there are additional photos on the NYPL website of this building and, I believe, the Columbia Theater under construction. I forgot exactly how I found them, but I think you go to the Milstein collection and "scroll" through the collection street by street. (From what I remember, the photos can be accessed "geographically" -- at least that's the way I did it [but I'm not that technically savvy], with the low numbered streets and avenues being shown first.)

The Milstein collection also has some interesting photos of the Roxy under construction, and various other interesting photos of the theater district. (Most of the photos seemed to me to be from the very first third of the 20th Century -- with lots of photos of brownstones (that were eventually replaced by theaters, etc.)!

I went back to NYPL Milstein Collection (officially listed as, "Photographic Views of New York City, 1870s -1970s") and found a 1917 photo of the Columbia Theater. The entrance to the Columbia Theater was indeed further to the south -- symetrically (sp?) in the center of the facade.

The windows above the Columbia's tunnel lobby entrance seem to be basically the same as those for the Mayfair. What was changed in the remodeling were the windows above the new entrance. So maybe the "Paramount" style of entrance was the new thing, and they did it with the Mayfair too?

I was unsure how to properly post a link, but here's how you can find the photo:

1) You go to the main NYPL Digital Archive page;

2) then to "Cities and Buildings";

3) then to "Phtographic Views of New York City, 1870s-1900s" (Milstein);

4) then search for (Photo ID) 709811F. It's on page 191 of the thumbnails.)

P.S. -- I get the feeling that the database for each of the various photo archives on the NYPL site is separate from all the others. So if, for example, you are seaching for the the "XYZ Building" in the Milstein collection, you will not be searching for the "XYZ Building" in all the other collections. (This is just a guess on my part.)

Plus it seems to me that the collections are not organized the way one may think they "should." For instance, I think I saw that one photo of a theater I was interested in was labeled "drugstore" because to the archivist the drugstore in the photo was more noteworthy than the theater.

I say this because I suspect that there may be a number of interesting theater photos scattered throughout the various collections, but that it will probably involve lots of scrolling through the various collections to actually find them -- that the search feature is of limited value.

I agree 100% with Warren that this theater should be listed on this site as the Loews Mayfair. Not sure how to go about requesting a change.

And Yes...Benjamin, thanks for pointing out the method to search for some other great photos! That one of The Roxy under construction is worth the patience searching through it. Awesome photo!

Im curious why you think this should be the Mayfair? Believe me I don't like the name Embassy but thats what it's last name was and as most people know it.

I guess it depends on how old you are. I knew this first as Brandt's Mayfair. After it became the DeMille, I still thought of it as the Mayfair, and names after the DeMille never even registered. I would vote for Mayfair, which was the original name regardless of circuit affiliation. And RKO Mayfair preceded Loew's Mayfair.

I've seen a lot of pictures now of this theater when it was the Mayfair and can see a lot of it in it's present condition but I've never seen a picture of it when it was the DeMille. Does anyone have any recollection of what the marquee looked like then?

CConnolly: I have a picture of the Demille Marquee from 1968-1969(?) when "Shoes of the Fisherman" was showing on a roadshow engagement. You can see the entire marquee and just a corner of the big billboard on the corner advertising the movie. My email address is dczimmerman@dejazzd.com Send me your email address and I will email you the picture.

I think that the DeMille marquee was the original Mayfair, with just the name changed, and new lighting installed in the sofit over the sidewalk. This addition had "A Walter Reade Theatre" in small lettering at the bottom on the north and south sides. By "original," I mean the marquee mentioned in my May 20 post, and not the one that extended all the way to the corner of 47th Street.

According to a New York City Property Search, this building, which has a business address of 165 West 47th Street, has a market value of $12.1 million (tentative) for the period designated 2005-06. This is an increase of $1 million over the $11.1 million in 2004-2005. These figures seem conservative to me. I would think that a prime corner in the heart of the theatre district would be worth more than that, but perhaps there are restrictions as to what can be erected on the site. Or perhaps it takes into account the cost of demolishing the building and preparing the site for a new one.

What I find interesting about the Columbia / Mayfair / DeMille is how low-profile this theater seems to have been. I wonder why this is the case?. (If this is, in fact, the case.) Here are some guesses:

Partly I think it is because of the peculiarities of the theater's history. Books on the theaters of Broadway, like Henderson's, Van Hoostraten's and Morrison's, don't seem to have any info on it because it was never, apparently, a "legitimate" theater -- but a burlesque / movie house instead. A book like "The Best Remaining Seats" doesn't seem to include the Mayfair because it was a "Johnny-come-lately" retro-fit movie theater and neither an historic pioneer (like the Regent or Rialto) nor a "true" movie palace. Books that are primarily architecturally oriented, like the AIA Guide, Stern's "1960" (I haven't looked it up in his earlier books, though), etc. don't seem to mention it because, despite the apparent attractiveness of its interior, it was not particularly special or unique when it was reconstructed as the Mayfair. And popular guidebooks, like the WPA Guide to NYC, don't seem to mention much about it either, because, again it was "just another" big movie theater, among many, when it was constructed.

So, in a way, this theater (along with those two old vaudeville [?] theaters on Eighth Ave.) seems to have "fallen between the cracks."

Speaking personally, I don't ever recall having been interested in visiting this theater in any way -- although in the 1960s and late 1950s I was interested in seeing movies in many of the other theaters in this area. And again I wonder why?

I wonder if it is because of the kind of movies that the theater showed. I was too young to see, "Psycho." And it seems to me that all the other "big" movies that I was interested in seeing in the 1960s all seemed to play other theaters in the Times Sq. area instead.

And although the DeMille was hidden by an office building (which was, in turn, covered by a billboard), I don't think this was the reason -- because I was always intrested in seeing what the interiors of the Astor and Victoria were like, and they too were behind office buildings that were covered by a gigantic billboard.

So, I'm wondering if the design of the lobby and marquee may have had something to do with it? One reason I always wanted to go into the Astor (and, perhaps, to a lesser extent the Victoria), for instance, was because their designs "drew you in." The Astor in particular was redesigned in such a way (hard to describe) that the inside of the theater seemed to extend out to the sidewalk. The same was true, I believe, to some extent with the Strand (Warner?). And, if I remember correctly, you could actually see the grand stairway (by that time a grand escalator) of the Capitol from the street.

The marquees and street entrances of the Rivoli and Loew's State both seemed to me to be very glamorous in a modern sort of way. (And while not a movie theater at the time, in the 1960s the underside of the Winter Garden theater was a spectacular profusion of light bulbs, although I don't think it was in good repair and still in use by that time. But it still seemed very impressive.)

So, in a way, my personal experience would seem to bear out the belief of movie theater builders and operators that spectacular "packaging" will help make people interested in your product. Along these lines, one of the websites mentioned in the Roxy theater thread mentions, I believe, that early theater owners often built very wide, arcade-like entrances for just this very reason -- to catch the eye and draw people in. (I believe the link was quoting one of the classic movie palace books -- but not the Ben Hall one.)

Benjamin: you make points that I agree with and have stated previously. The only reason why I even became aware of this theater is because my office building looks directly down onto it. I remember being in someone's office and I realized that the structure I was staring at was a theater. Being interested in that stuff, I checked out the front and saw the marquee. This site helped me to find out all about it. The marquee that now stands for the theater hardly makes anyone take notice of it at all.

Yeah, I agree that it's kind of fallen through the cracks. It will be interesting to see what might happen to it. Would preservationists go for it? Maybe. Wouldn't it be so ironic that a theater that was forgotten gets resurrected simply because it's the last movie theater from a bygone age that's still standing? I think we'd all agree that if we could've save one Times Square theater, we would probably pick one of the "others" (Capitol, Rivoli, Strand, Criterion, etc.) and NOT The Mayfair. But it's still standing so that means something. That is what I said in my E-Mail to Christopher Gray of the NY Times.

I've always been curious about the DeMille. I remembered seeing ads for it in the late 60's early 70's in the NY Times and wondered what happened to it. (didnt find out until I discovered this site). Is the office building occupied? How high is it? How much of the theater is covered by the office building?

The office building is the original building that was built along with the Mayfair. It's actually an astonishingly thin building. From what I can see, the part of the building that faces 7th Avenue is really, really, thin. I have no idea how many feet across but trust me, it's small. The building does not cover the Mayfair/DeMille auditorium at all. You can clearly see the roof and such. From here, there does not appear to be any damage to the roof and the a/c units are still intact but look battered. I believe the office building is occupied but I cannot imagine who the tenants are. Perhaps I'll take a walk today and find out. I've been curious myself...

DennisZ: thanks for the shot of the DeMille. Very interesting. The theater looks very, very low key then. Who ever took the photo obviously was taking a picture specifically of the DeMille because it's so clearly centered in the photo.

Is the side of the auditorium on 47th or is that part of the building above it? Let me know what you find out!

A lot of the windows on the 7th Avenue side have been bricked over, because of the large billboards.

TJ: hard to describe...the building into which the Mayfair sits kind of wraps around the auditorium (L shaped) so the southside of the auditorium isn't exposed at all to 47th. The theater looks actually nestled into the structure. Very unusual, at least in my very limited architectural experience.

Warren: I went by the Mayfair today (always wonder if I see someone gazing at it also is it someone from this site!) and I found (I think) that the Mayfair is part of the building known as 701 West 47th Street. The entrance is on 47th across from the exits for the Palace. There are about six tenants in the building..one is a record company. I could not get into the very small lobby but it looks decently maintained. Any buyer of the building wishing to demolish it would have to deal with each tenant and their various lease options. Also, just buying this building would not (IMO) give a builder enough of a footprint upon which to build anything prominent like what was built on the site of the State. I'm sure there are builders who could but space in Times Square is not exactly tight right now.

Again, this could keep the old Mayfair up for who knows how long?

If only Donald Trump were a big fan of classic widescreen movies. He could buy the building, renovate it to what it was in its glory days and call it the Trump Theater. Sort of like what Paul Allen did in Seattle when he saved their old Cinerama Theater.

Ok...I'm getting a tad obsessive about this now but if you want to see what this building looks like today (actually, about two years ago...) go to this website: http://www.walter-samuels.com/commer_set.shtml

Scroll down about 3/4 and look for the entry for 701 7th Ave. I wrote the address wrong above. The building is managed by a company called Walter & Samuels. It says the square footage for the theater is 50,000 and there are 1,140 seats. Interesting...

Well look at the recent razing of 1600 Broadway for condos. It came down without any real problems. Look at the soon tobe razed Howard Johnson in Times Square. It might not be a large parcel of land, but it can be built up. So with the way the building the Mayfair is located in and the auditorium and the amount of tenants in the building. The owner is holding out for something large, like another tall building in Times Square. Buying a tenants lease option is not a real problem for a property like that. The owner would stand to make a few million on the sale or in razing the building.
I'm just saying this because nothing is that safe in the Times Square area that has not been in full use recently.

CConnolly: So glad you got the picture. I was beginning to have my doubts at 1am this morning when I decided to send it when I went on line to check for any email messages. As I mentioned, I have some other pictures which I would be more than happy to email you. P.S. I was the one to take all the pictures. Way back in 1968 with my little instamatic camera! Everytime I went to New York City I would photo the theatres. Little did I know then that years later they would no longer exist. I am especially pleased with my picture of the Rivoli during the engagement of the 70mm version of "GWTW." And the Criterion during the "Funny Girl" engagement. My picture of Loew's Capitol would almost duplicate the one shown on this websites listing for the theatre. I have other snapshots of the DeMille during the Reade engagement of the Russian two part "War and Peace." That picture shows the entire billboard and just the marquee in the corner of the snaphot. However, I am still searching the house for the other pictures I know I have somewhere. I have only managed to find pictures of 7 Time Square Theatres and 7 Philadelphia center city theatres. We can only hope that the Mayfair/DeMille can be spared and come back to life again!

Yeah, the razing of 1600 Broadway, while sad (it was a pretty historic building considering the businesses that once occupied it...) was awesome to behold. They did a pretty neat job of getting it down. I'm no engineer but 701 7th looks kind of complicated. It goes midblock and it's like a maze of buildings in there. Wish you could see it. 1600 was completely a stand alone structure like The Rivoli was.

Here's an ad from the New York Times, 4/28/68. The DeMille was about to show the Russian version of "War and Peace", in 70mm. Those prices were awfully steep for 1968, but it WAS a 6 1/2 hour movie:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/DeMille.jpg

Thanks, Chris for the pic and info. So the Palace is actually south of the DeMille? I thought it was north (my knowledge of Times Square geography is a little fuzzy). Is it really true that it had no stage facilities? I seem to remember it had some concerts there in the early 70's.

TJ: the Palace is directly south of the Mayfair/DeMille. It sits on the southeast corner of 47th and 7th whereas the building that the Mayfair sits in is on the northeast side.

Bill Huelbig: Thanks for the very interesting ad you posted. Now I seem to remember that the neat-o logo for The DeMille was used for other Walter Reade theaters like the Baronet and the Coronet. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I remember reading the New York Post as a kid and seeing the adds with the same kind of lettering used for other theaters, even The Ziegfeld. Was that theater owned at one time by Walter Reade?

BUT...please note that your posting contains something EVEN more interesting. To the left of the ad, there is the last parts of some kind of article about a play and such. The last part has a heading called ROUNDUP. I had to print it out to read it and here is what is says:

"West Side Story" will be revived at the New York State Theater starting June 24...The City Planning Commission cleared the way for the construction of theaters in the office buildings planned for the site of the former Astor Hotel and the site where the Capitol Theater now stands. The commission's action will be final unless the Board of Estimate disapproves whithin 60 days."

I'm sorry but that's really eerie. So, the city got the go ahead to knock down the majestic Capitol because someone who designed the building that would replace it agreed that they would put in a theater which would become the Uris and now is called The Gershwin.

Yes, I remember those logos. All the Walter Reade theaters had them. I think the Ziegfeld as well.

Walter Reade had a unique "logo" that was used for all its theatres. The Ziegfeld was built and first operated by Walter Reade Theatres.

On occasion, when the Ziegfeld opens with an exclusive, the old Walter Reade logo (the Ziegfeld belonged to that chain until the Cineplex Odeon buyout in '87) is still used, albeit with a 'Clearview Cinemas' banner posted above. Also, up until the time when it was triplexed in '88 (and perhaps for a short time after - I can't quite recall), when the Cinemas 1-2-3 had a solo run, the Cinema 5/Rugoff logo was utilized.

Apologies for the redundancy between my posting and yours, Warren. I was typing away as you wrote and posted your message.

If I recall correctly, Walter Reade dropped the DeMille after building the Ziegfeld. There was no need to have two large theatres so near to each other. And the DeMille had become shabby in comparison.

Yes, CConnolly, reading that news item sure does give off an eerie feeling. What's really strange about it for me: I've had that old Arts and Leisure section for 37 years now and I'd never read that column before last night! It's the only one I've kept, probably because of the "2001" ad and related articles. If I'd read it back then I would've known the Capitol would soon be closing, and I wouldn't have worried that it was somehow "2001"'s fault. Being only 13 and not knowing about New York real estate and movie business economics, I somehow got it into my head at the time that the Capitol was closing because "2001" wasn't a hit (which of course it was).

I think I have an old "Close Encounters" ad from the Daily News somewhere in the house with the Ziegfeld Walter Reade logo. I'll look for it tonight and post it - after I get back from the actual Ziegfeld!

Another interesting item in the same column: before the part about the theaters there's a piece about a play called "The Memorandum" by Vaclav Havel, "a Czech playwright, poet and essayist." Many years later he was elected president of Czechoslovakia.

Chris,

Is there any way you could get inside to take a look around? Maybe as a prospective buyer? (Lol) Worth a try!

I think the first time I was in the DeMille theatre was to see the two part "War and Peace" presentation. I remember thinking it was a large theatre, but nothing out of the ordinary. It was certainly no Rivoli or Capital. I also remember that the usherettes wore Russian style outfits. However, being the last standing "movie palace" in the Times Square area qualifies it for restoration. In one of my comments on the Capitol Theatre page, I opinioned that the developer and architect should loose their licenses for replacing the Capitol Theatre with the boring non descript Uris/Gershwin Theatre. It would certainly been a better idea to redo the Capitol as a Broadway stage theatre than what "we" ended up with! I think Reade operated the Ziegfeld and DeMille theatres for many years before moving out of the Demille. Seeing that ad for "War and Peace" the remarkable thing to realize is how many of those Walter Reade Theatres have faded into history that are listed in their directory ad. May the DeMille be reborn!

The marquee of Loew's Mayfair can be seen in a 1939 photo at www.gettyimages.com The photo is numbered 3233116...The theatre isn't the last "movie palace" still standing in the Times Square area. What about the magnificent Hollywood Theatre on West 51st Street, now known as the Times Square Church? Thomas Lamb's original decor has been retained and is also well maintained. It was never desecrated like the Mayfair/DeMille.

Re: Dennis' comment about the usherettes at "War and Peace". I read somewhere that when the DeMille played "Spartacus" in 1960, the usherettes wore Roman-style outfits. It was all about showmanship, and boy do I miss it.

Warren, regarding the Hollywood Theater (aka Mark Hellinger Theater), I didn't know that this was designed by Lamb. Even from the outside, you can tell this baby's beautiful. And HUGE. But I'll argue that it doesn't totally qualify as a total movie palace because it operated as a legit stage theater for years. So, if one uses the criteria of the last remaining movie "palace" that was strictly used for movies, would it be The Mayfair?

One other note about the Mark Hellinger theater...not sure if I read this here (and I apologize if I'm copying from someone else's notes...) but I read that for years, producers thought this place was bad luck. It did not have any big hits, musical or straight for years and years. But when it finally did, it had one of the biggest of all time, "My Fair Lady".

I see the Mark Hellinger every day and I have to say it looks very, very well maintained.

No, the Hollywood was built by Warner Brothers as a movie theatre. It didn't really become a "legit" house until it was about 20 years old, although during the Depression, WB sometimes leased it out for plays and concerts. The Hollywood's seating capacity was only about 1,800, which is about the same as the Mayfair's.

Walter Reade operated the DeMille until the fire. They were set to move the 70mm print of "That's Entertainment" over from the Ziegfeld the next day, and I think they may have ads listing it as being at the DeMille in 70mm. The fire resulted in the theatre closing, and Walter Reade never reopened it. The circuit was having financial difficulties at the time. At the time I started working as a relief projectionist at the Ziegfeld during the "Close Encounters" run they were in bankruptcy, so that may have been a factor in pulling out of a theatre that would have been costly to heat and cool and maintain like the DeMille.

Hearkbreaking.

um...heartbreaking

Maybe this is a stupid question, but is this Walter Reade group still around managing theaters? Or are they (he?) long gone?

Founder Walter Reade died in 1952, at age 68. Son Walter, Jr. ran the company until 1973, when he died in a skiing accident at age 56. Company was run by others for a time, but eventually folded.

The company was run by Sheldon Gunsberg after Reade Jr.'s death until it was taken over by Cineplex. Gunsberg had brought it out of bankruptcy and to (he thought) to protect it made a deal with Columbia and possibly Coca Cola. They in turn made a deal with Cineplex which took over the company. Gunsberg was quoted as saying of the deal, "I made a deal where I thought I could sleep at night, and then one night I didn't sleep so good!" That was too bad, since he did care about the theatres and presentation, and was a real gentleman to boot.

While certainly no expert on real estate, zoning and landmarks preservation, I may be a little more familiar with them then most posters on this site, and it seems to me (from my still admittedly sketchy knowledge in these areas) that some of the posts in this thread have stated a number of misconceptions. So here are some thoughts that I believe might help.

Judging from the listing for the property (701 Seventh Ave.) on the OASIS NYC website, the lot that the theater / office building is on is a rectangular one (on this site they show a map), with a lot frontage of 160 ft. and a lot depth of 100.42 ft. The OASIS site says the structure on the property was built in 1909. (But I think I've noticed inaccuracies in this site in the past.) (I'm not sure how to properly post a link to this site [without messing up the Cinema Treasures website in the process], but the site can be easily found using a search engine. Once on the site you choose what kind of info you want, I chose "Property Data," and type in the address, or block and lot if you prefer, and the borough.)

From what I can tell from this info and from general knowledge about theaters in New York City, the relationship of the Mayfair (which is what I'll call the Embassy 2, 3, 4) to the office building that is apparently wrapped around it on two sides is not at all complicated or unusual. Even in the days when these old Times Sq. theaters were built (mostly in the first quarter of the 20th Century), Manhattan land was very expensive and valuable and builders understandably wanted to make the most of their property. So a good many theaters were built with small office buildings over a portion of the "theater." Since building regulations then didn't allow builders to actually build over the auditorium itself, the builders usually built over other areas of the theater – particularly over the entrance / lobby. (Good examples of this are the New Amsterdam, the Hudson and the original Palace [the building before they built the current hotel]. This is why, by the way, so many New York City theaters "photograph" so poorly – sometimes bizarrely so. What you are really seeing is the office building that has been built over the tunnel entrance / lobby.

By the way, as building technologies changed, I believe they changed the rules regarding building above an auditorium, so that some of the new buildings appear to be cantilevered over adjacent auditoriums. (I believe this is what they did, for instance, for the hotel above the Palace, across the street from the Mayfair.)

Given the fascinating post by pscribner on Feb. 25th, it would seem that the Columbia Amusement Company, built the Columbia as their flagship burlesque theater and then built the office building along the properties two street frontages for use as their headquarters, with some of the office space being rented out to others also.

One of the photos I've seen of the building in it's early days (it may be the one that Warren graciously offered to send people) shows that at one time the 47th St. side of the office building was faced with three (?) long fire escapes. This set up of (ugly) exterior fire escapes seems quite common in theaters of the time. I believe a lot of the 42nd St. theaters, for instance, had a "maze" of fire escapes on their 41st St. sides (and may still have them today). Plus, even the very prestigious Ziegfeld Theater on Sixth Ave. had (somewhat stylized) fire escapes on its 54th St. side. So one of the questions I wonder about is what did they do with the fire escapes when they remodeled the Columbia as the Mayfair? My guess is that the office building was less valuable by then, and that they put the fire stairs through unoccupied office space. Another guess is that when they remodeled the theater they didn't add 950 seats (changing the seating capacity, which I believe Warren mentions in one of his posts, from 1,350 to 2,300) but perhaps reduced the number of seats or, at least reconfigured their arrangement, to reduced the number of fire escapes needed.

Another question I have, which others have raised, is what did they do with all the space behind the billboards. (I wonder the same about the office spaces above the tunnel entrance lobbies for the Astor and the Victoria.) This question may have been partially answer by the real estate link posted by CConnelly, it seems as though this space was rented out for recording studios -- which are just right for windowless spaces.

In the late 1960s / early 1970s, the City created a special theater zoning district which allowed builders to build an extra amount of office space in their buildings if they also built a theater (or similar facility) on their zoning lot. The first theater to be built under this program was the Minskoff in the W.T. Grant, now One Astor Plaza (?) Building (which replaced the Astor Hotel). The Gershwin in the Uris (which replaced the Capitol) was also built under this zoning, and I believe the Ziegfeld (movie) theater and its adjacent office building (which replaced the original Ziegfeld among other buildings) may have also been built under this zoning.

If I recall correctly, the reason the City did this (under Mayor John Lindsay) was that they were afraid that new office buildings would more and more replace the old Broadway theaters and that no new theaters would ever be built to replace the old ones – leaving the Times Sq. area as just another Manhattan office district. (The story of the creation of the Special Times Square Zoning District is covered in Jonathan Barnett's book, "Urban Design as Public Policy." Barnett was part of the team that came up with the idea.)

This is the underlying economics that they probably had in mind: theaters, especially legitimate theaters, are very "inefficient" users of space. They take up a lot of land (you can have just so many mezzanines and balconies) and are only using the land eight times a week at most. And they can be empty for many, many months between hit shows – all the while the theater owner has to pay taxes, etc. (And while now quite as bad, movie theaters have similar economics – the one big difference these days being that you can indeed have a "skyscraper" multiplex – like the Loew's on lower Third Ave., for instance.) So basically there seems to be an incentive for builders to buy old Manhattan theaters for future development as a modern office building or apartment house, and a disincentive to build modern legitimate theaters (and modern single screen movie theaters).

Looking at my Hagstom's map, which gives a rough idea of the size of the lots of various theaters, it seems to me that the Mayfair property -- by itself -- is actually a bit on the small side, especially when you consider that modern day zoning would not allow a builder to build straight up from the street the way they did on this site in 1909. My guess is that a modern day developer would probably want to assemble all the properties along Seventh Ave. on that block before deciding to build something. (The Mayfair footprint seems to be the same size as that of the old Earl Carroll Theater on the southeast corner of 50th and Sixth, and this building was allowed to stand until all the properties along Seventh Ave. on that block were assembled and the market was right for a new office building.)

I tried to find on the Landmark's Preservation Commission website a list of all the theaters that have been designated landmarks, but I wasn't able to find one. But judging from those that I do know to be landmarks, and judging from the current controversies regarding the LPC, it seems to me that the chances of the Mayfair ever being designated a landmark are very, very slim. There doesn't seem to be anything really special about the Mayfair from an architectural or historical perspective. And remember, even the Beekman and Cinema 1, 2 and 3 which both seem, at least to me, to have more credentials can't seem to get, apparently, even a hearing about possible designation.

Benjamin: I can answer you question about the fire escapes. They are on the "inside" of the building. Well, what I mean is they are on the outside of the "inside" of the office building. The building wraps around the Mayfair like an L. The fire escapes (long, long, cool looking stairs...) are inside the L. I can see them clearly from my office. They start from the top floor of the building and run diagonally down toward the back of the part of the building that fronts onto 7th Ave. From there, it looks like some kind of "path" then runs away from the back of the building fronting 7th along the southside of the Mayfair's auditorium to a small alleyway that exits onto 47th Street right across from the exit doors for the Palace. I saw this clearly yesterday when I checked it out.

I agree with most of your points. Without having seen the inside of the theater, I can say that the outside is nothing much. The only semi interesting aspect is the stonework above the marquee which is not greatly diminished by the billboard.

But the question is: what constitutes a landmark? Is it strictly the architectural value? That seems to be what the current Landmarks council thinks. But there has to be an effort to expand the definition of a landmark.

The outside of the inside of the building? I'm not quite sure I understand you. To exit the theater, you had to go into the office building?

Oh, I thought Benjamin was asking where the fire escapes went for the building, not the theater. The building's fire escapes are on the outside of the building that faces the auditorium.

I think we might be talking about different fire escapes.

(To summarize and clarify: The "liner" office building around the Mayfair that is being discussed has an "L" shaped footprint, with the long part of the "L" running along 47th St. and the short part of the "L" running up Seventh Ave.)

If I understand you correctly, the fire escapes that you see are ones that start on the top floor (but on the "backside," not the "streetside") of the office buiding. I would assume that these fire escapes were always there for the office workers in the office building and were separate and apart from those needed to evacuate theater patrons less high up in the building.

The fire escapes that I was thinking about were on the street side of the building and jutted out from the long side of the "L," from only about half-way up the building. I assume these fire escapes were devoted solely to evacuation of the masses of patrons occupying the Columbia's two balconies.

After posting my question, it occured to me that maybe the fire escapes were hidden behind the giant billboard? In other words, maybe the billboard was hung, in part, upon the fire escapes? But I'm not sure if the City would have allowed them to jut such a billboard that far out over the sidewalk.

- - - - - - -

Regarding the definition of "landmark":

Actually the definition of "landmark" appears to be contracting rather than expanding. This is part of the controversy about the Landmarks Preservation Commission that I mention in a recent post on the Beekman thread on the Cinema Treasures website.

Even before the apparent recent shrinkage in the definition of what constitutes a landmark, however, it seems to me that NYC landmarks, more often than not, are designated primarily for their architectural, rather than their historical, value. (Additionally, some kinds of architecture seem to be guarded more protectively than others.) I think this is because most people concerned with landmarks tend to be interested in design more than history. (And those in power seem to favor certain styles of architecture over others.) But there are, of course, exceptions, especially when a building has an overwhelming historic importance. (For example, my guess is that the NYU building that was the site of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire is one of these -- architecturally undistinguished, but historically very important.)

Not to be political, but it seems to me that since the Giuliani (and perhaps Dinkens) administration, the LPC has been a lot "stingier" about designating landmarks. (The LPC is essentially controlled by the reigning Mayor.) I think what happened is by this time, 20-25 years after the signing of the landmarks law, so many buildings and areas had been designated landmarks that people were concerned about going "over board" with landmarking -- impeding future development. So developers (and others) were often able to use this concern to prevail upon the Mayor/LPC not to support landmark designation -- or even hold a public hearing -- on certain possible landmarks.

What really disturbs me about all of this is that rather than address this issue in a straightforward way, the last two (or three?) Mayors have apparently decided to use secret, behind the scenes maneuvering to decide which buildings get, or do not get, a public hearing for possible designation. So in the end, it seems to me, landmarking in NYC has become more and more a matter of who knows whom, being a political "insider," and being on the "right" side of the various culture "wars," etc.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but there was just enough space between the building and the auditorium for the fire escapes or was there an alley there? I wondered how people could exit the auditorium when there was no frontage on the 47th St. side. Was there an alley behind the auditorium too?

Also regarding the Mark Hellinger, does anyone know if the Church bought the building outright or do they just have a lease? Is there any chance it could revert back to a theater once the lease is up? I bet the Nederlander Org. regrets letting the building go with the shortage of large theaters currently available for musicals.

I believe the church bought the theatre. Disney is working on a new complex on 8th Avenue.

I believe there's an alley way behind the theater (behind where the screen would be...). It exits out onto 47th Street. You can actuall see the back of the theater from this exit area.

Regarding the landmarks commission, as long as real estate values continue to escalate the way they are in the New York area, developers are going to cherish land above the structures sitting on them. If developers had their way, virtually every single structure in Times Square would be gone.

Rationally speaking, buildings are more than what they look like. They also represent a time and place. Ok, so the Mayfair/DeMille isn't one of the greatest or most memorable places in Times Square. But for those of us who've seen those great photos, this place meant something to people.

Will the landmarks commission take this into consideration? What do YOU think?

The question becomes, "what, EXACTLY, is it that one would be trying to preserve through landmark designation?" Preservationists are usually very conscious that there has to be a legitimate reason for the government to designate private property as a landmark. Usually they favor landmark designation because of a building's architectural or historical significance (or some combination).

Preservationists, so it seems to me, usually go to great pains to point out that they do NOT designate landmarks to preserve uses, to freeze (in a general way) a certain time or place, or to indulge in sentimental feelings (especially those of a small group of aficionados).

As I believe Warren, for example, was trying to point out, there appears to be a much better (more architecturally distinguished, more intact) example of the Times Square movie "palace" than the Mayfair. (And it also has some imporatance as a "legitimate" theater as well.) And this is not even to mention, the even grander outer borough movie palaces like the Paradise, the Valencia, the Brooklyn Paramount, the Kings and the Triboro and the Keith (the last two of which were essentially lost despite very strong credentials and efforts to save them).

And even if the Columbia hadn't been transformed into the Mayfair, there are better examples of early 20th Century "legitimate" and "burlesque" theaters (some of which are already landmarked).

So, given the info that I've seen so far, I see only an extremely weak arguement -- near non-existent, really -- for landmarking, at least in terms of the generally accepted criteria that's been used by preservationists over the years. And I think the argument would be weak, so it seems to me, even in the earlier, apparently less political, days of the Landmark Preservation Commission.

But who knows? I've been surprised by some of the buildings that have actually been designated and I've been surprised by some of buildings that haven't even gotten a public hearing regarding designation.

Realistically speaking, The Mayfair hasn't got a chance. The only reason why it's not gone yet is sheer luck. And the fact that a developer hasn't been able to acquire enough land to build something of size. But it's only a matter of time...

But you have to admit that it's ironic while truly magnificent structures like The Capitol and Rivoli not to mention the Roxy are dust, this little guy is still standing. Yep, I'm a sentimentalist and for that reason alone, I'd like to see it stay. If I was a developer and had $$$ AND I still loved these old theaters, I would get engineers in to build a structure around and above The Mayfair then lovingly restore it. I would use the rents collected from the tenants in the building to subsidize any/all losses the theater might incur. It's an awesome location too. Ah, well...

Here's an ad for "Close Encounters" with the Ziegfeld Walter Reade logo. You can also see the Walter Reade corporate symbol, next to the words "A Walter Reade Theatre". The date is November 17, 1977.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/Ziegfeld.jpg

If only, Chris. Why was the name changed to the Embassy when there was allready another theater with that name? Anyone know? Doesnt make sense to me. Why didnt they just call it the Demille 1,2,3?

The name was changed to signify its connection with other Embassy theatres. Embassy 1 was just a block away. I guess you could think of it as a divided multiplex. Embassy 1 was in a different building from screens 2, 3 & 4.

Were there any other Times Sq. theaters north of the DeMille on 7th, or was this the last one? (I mean older theaters)

Well, TJ...technically speaking, the Granddaddy of all movie palaces was located just off 7th on 50th Street, a mere 3 blocks north of the Mayfair/DeMille/Embassy.

And that was? The Roxy?

Isn't there two small theatres just north of the Mayfair? There two other small marquees, one is using the lobby as a store and the other is a gentlemen's club. (next to Magno 729 7th Ave.)

William, yes...and I've asked before but I don't think anyone knows or hasn't answered. One is presently known as the Sage Theater (it's clearly marked) and has the American Girl sign on it's marquee. And the Lace "Gentleman's Club" looks like it was in a theater but it's occupying a basement space because when you go in, you go downstairs. Uh...I know this because...uh...friends have told me? Ok, ok...I was in it for a bachelor party!

Didn't the gentleman's club used to be the Metropole Cafe back in the '60's (and probably before that)? The opening sequence of "The Odd Couple" with Jack Lemmon was filmed there.

Those "theatres" just up the street from the Mayfair were not really theatres. They were converted from retail and basement storage space in the 1970s or 80s. I don't recall exact date. I think they showed American and later Hispanic films before descending into porno.

I believe when those theatres orinally opened they were called Agee Screening Room 1 and 2 and had initially played independent and foreign films (mostly Spanish) for a few months and as Warren stated descended into porno.

The Metropole was a good jazz bar, though not a great one. After all, W. 52 Street was only a few blocks north. The Metropole caught the out-of-town tourist who didn't know better. Behind the Mayfair on W. 47 Street stood the Steuben House, a once-decent Theater District restaurant for German food und ersatze Gemutlichkeit. Other reasonable restaurants lined W. 48 Street before Sam Ash grew elephantine.

Don't forget about the Embassy 5, formerly The Victoria, at 46th & B'way.

Oh brother. Another Embassy Theater.

I found a three-page article (with photographs) about the opening of the Mayfair in the Better Theatres section of the November 22, 1930 issue of Exhibitors Herald-World Magazine. Due to its length, I will have to post in installments. Paragraphs will be separated by ###: "Created out of a building that knew the day when Eastern Wheel burlesque was some kind of a criterion, a theatre stands near Times Square in New York today, a monarch of modern theatre architecture and a monument to the most modern of entertainment forms. And it is as well an example of extraordinary re-modeling.###The new creation is the RKO Mayfair. The old was the antiquated Columbia burlesque house, really an amusement palace in its day. Once the pride of the 'Black Crook' and 'Beef Trust' devotees, the Columbia had in recent years become covered with the moss of quaint memories-- memories of a day when chorus girls were fully clothed and buxom.### In more recent years, the Columbia had been spasmodically open and closed. Radio-Keith-Orpheum took it over some months ago. The new Mayfair is the result.###The RKO Mayfair is as interesting as an example of remodeling as it is an example of modern theatre design. Practically nothing save the old walls remain in the new structure. It even appears enlarged. Every effort has been bent toward making it a metropolitan playhouse, a finished model of the ultra-modern cinema, built for the talking picture.###Located on Broadway at Forty-seventh Street, it is Manhattan's newest theatre. It is said to represent the complete abandonment of traditional means and methods in equipment, planned to include the latest mechanical and scientific innovations, has an architectural scheme harmonizing with the modernistic tendencies of old and new design, blended together.###The marble-paneled floors, sculptured plastered walls, with bronze and marble intermingled, and its high ceilings, culminating in the luminous dome, present a majestic effect.###One first receives this impression upon entering the vestibule facing Broadway. The unusual height is striking. One notices the Morocco rough marble used to obtain sculptural contrasts. Another greeting to the eye is the RKO insignia, incrusted in massive letters upon the marble-paneled floor. Almost every one who comes in notices this at once-- unless there be too many feet.###The auditorium itself, including the orchestra, loges and mezzanine, seats 2,300. Full view of the screen is, of course, available from every chair, and, in addition, the sound is clear even in the far corners of the theatre.###One of the noticeable features of the architecture is that there are no bulky projections protruding from the walls or ceiling, such as were popular in earlier design. Ornamentation is carried out, instead, by presenting only the outline of recesses and bas-reliefs. This is distinctly a modern trend in theatre architecture. It serves a double purpose, for it introduces a new type of beauty and facilitates sound projection. Theatres now being built for sound are turning to this method as an aid to good acoustics." (TO BE CONTINUED)

Wow 2,300 seats? Obviously must have lost some over the years. Thanks for posting this (and the cont'd!)

Very interesting. I can certainly attest to the "unusual height", as I had to climb to the top of the theatre to get to the booth. "Unusual height" indeed!

Warren, you are some kind of demi-god around here. How are you in real life?

I neglected to mention that the 1930 article about the Mayfair was written by Howard Oiseth. Following is a continuation (and hopefully a conclusion, if my fingers hold out): "The visitor to the Mayfair notices that atmosphere is obtained by an artful juxtaposing of insert fabric panels, exquisite draperies, quaint lighting fixtures, and simulated lighting effects.###Floors of the auditorium are covered with multi-colored carpets. A wide staircase ascends from the auditorium level to the mezzanine promenade, leading into a great elongted octagon, the walls of which are decorated with polished hardwood, inlaid with satinwood. The arched portals to this octagon are trimmed with real ebony. Illuminated panels radiate diffused light from the elaborately beamed and trussed ceiling.###The main lounge adjoins the promenade. It is generously large, with appropriate accoutrements. The floor is bordered with black marble. The walls are faced with silvery hardwood in large frames of satinwood. On opposite sides of this main lounge are special rooms for men and women. Another feature is a cosmetics room, fitted with milady's every luxury.###Directly over the first promenade is the second mezzanine promenade, with its own lounge. Its walls are faced with teak and trimmed in Macassar ebony. The adjacent rest rooms are similar to those below.###The Mayfair has one of the most completely equipped projection booths in the country. RCA Photophone sound is used, and the booth was built according to specifications planned by M.C. Batsel, chief engineer for RCA Photophone, Inc. Several of the features are said to be entirely new. One of them is the improved loud speaker and directional baffle. Engineers declare it diffuses the richest and clearest sound so far obtained through the medium of a mechanical device. Another new note is the introduction of an impedance gate in the sound head. Steady passage of film through the sound gate and consequent elimination of flutter is made possible, the technicians say, by this special device.###Installation of RCA Photophone Acousticon Seatphone equipment is now being done, as an aid to the hard-of-hearing. Each headset will be fitted with a lorgnette handle. This instrument is the product of the Dictograph Products Company, working in collaboration with RCA Photophone engineers.###Wide screen is part of the theatre's projection equipment, and the huge proscenium arch forms a strikingly suitable frame for it. The proscenium arch is another aid to projection, more especially sound projection, because its cavernous hollow supplies a necessary aid to good acoustics, acting as a sound box, reflecting the waves resonantly down and forward.###As one steps from the auditorium, walks through the foyer and once more reaches the sidewalk, one turns again to study the brilliantly lighted marquee. It is of unusual design and size. Its sloping surface floods the entire street with animated illumination. The main banner of lights is 100 feet high, and 125 feet wide. A harmonious color scheme is maintained in the frame of border lamps, which play in perpetual color motion, undulating and wavering. The lettering plan is variable, changes in announcements being made in changing colors. Some of the letters are from four to six feet high and seem huge even from the street below.###Thermostatic instruments control the ventilation, heating, cooling, and disinfecting systems of the Mayfair. Any one of them can be regulated with the turn of an electric switch to create any gradation of change.###One third of the air in the building is in a constant process of washing, while the other two-thirds is constantly fresh. The ventilating plant has a capacity of 150 tons, permitting the air to be constantly freshened at any desired temperature.###The architect of the Mayfair was Thomas W. Lamb. M. Shapiro & Sons was the contractor, while Walter Reade supervised construction.###The Mayfair is running on an exceptionally heavy exhibition policy, with 18 hours a day of continuous programs. Every day except Sunday, the doors open at 9AM and remain open until 3AM the next morning. This gives the house approximately ten complete performances daily. The admission scale increases throughout the day, with popular prices being charged for all performances." END

My word! I want this theatre to reopen exactly as described above.

Thanks so much, Warren. That was a real trip back into the past. I agree with Saps - now more than ever, this theater has to be saved!

I wonder what was shaped like an Octagon? Sounds like it was a showplace when it first opened. I wonder how much they changed it when it became the DeMille.......lost a lot of seats.....Thanks for all the info. I wonder if it would work as a legitimate theater? I seem to remember some concerts being held there in the early 70's when it was the DeMille, so it must have had some sort of stage. It would be wonderful if it could be saved somehow for some sort of use as a theater/performing arts center.

I just sent this e-mail to Donald Trump and thought you all would be interested in reading it:
TO MR. DONALD TRUMP:
First, belated Bravos!!! for your coments on the World Trade Center. The so called "Freedom Tower" is horrible and should not be built. Please use all your power to convince the governor and the mayor that the best thing for New York City is to bring the Twin Towers back just as you have suggested. Perhaps you can post a page on this website were we, the public -- perhaps limited to those of us who live or work below Canal Street - can vote to bring the Twin Towers back. After all, we were the ones who were and still are being affected by not having the towers, specially those of us who survived that terribe day.
On another subject, since you are also involved in entertainment, would you be interested in bringing Cinerama back to New York City? Triple projection Cinerama and its huge curved screen debuted right here in New York City at the Broadway Theatre on September 1952. Yet, while Seattle and Los Angeles have Cinerama theatres, New York, "The Capital of the World," does not. I am sure a Cinerama theater in Times Square, "the crossroads of the world," would be a terrific tourist attraction and would bring movie loving visitors and money to the city. Besides triple projection Cinerama, the theater could show 70mm spectaculars like "Lawrence of Arabia" as they were intended to be seen. Also, the venue could be used for other movie attractions such as a 3D festival like they had last summer at the Egyptian Theatre in Los Angeles. Except for the occasional double projection 3D film at the Film Forum, most contemporary New Yorkers have not seen double projection 3D, just as they have not seen Cinerama. Last summer both the American Museum of the Moving Image in Queens and the Walter Reade Theater at Lincoln Center celebrated 50 years of wide screen movies. It's ironic that it was Cinerama that started it all right here in New York City and we don't have a Cinerama theater.
As for the venue, the abandoned and empty Embassy 2-3-4 (formerly the DeMille, originally the RKO Mayfair) on Seventh Avenue and 47th Street is wide enough for triple projection Cinerama since ir used to play 70mm spectaculars in its heyday. Think about it Mr. Trump, if someone can do it, it's you.
Let's bring back the Twin Towers and Cinerama to New York City. Again, if someone can do it, it's you, Mr. Trump.
Respectfully,
Andrés Roura

Let us know what he says!

I found a news clipping from 1971 stating that the folk/pop singer Melanie would perform two solo shows at the DeMille Theatre on November 26 and 27th, under the auspices of producer Sid Bernstein in association with Billy Fields & Alan Mitosky. I don't know if those shows ever took place, but the story also said that Bernstein and associates intended to present more concerts at the DeMille in 1972. Bookings depended on the length of the engagement of the DeMille's next screen attraction, "Diamonds Are Forever," which was due to open in December. I don't believe that the DeMille had more than a platform for a stage, but it seems possible that performing space could have been extended by removing some of the front rows of seats.

Thanks, Andy. Wouldn't it be great if your e-mail had a positive effect? Then they should name the theater after you.

Maybe Donald Trump's new Apprentice, Kendra, can research just how successful Cinerama is when it's shown in Los Angeles. I believe the entire 2-week engagement of "How the West Was Won" in 2003 was a sellout or close to it at every showing.

Great letter Andy !!!!

Bravo Andy... a great letter and a great idea, but Donald Trump might not be the best person to send it to. From what I can see, having watched The Apprentice a few times, Mr. Trump is only interested in making money. And lots of it, so your Cinerama at the Mayfair idea might not have the profit potential Mr. Trump is looking for. I hope I'm wrong, but a more likely organization to impliment your great idea would be the man who runs the wonderful revival house below Canel Street, I can't think of his name, or the Lincoln Center Film Society--or even the Museum of Modern Art's film department. You should write to them too, should Mr. Trump pass.

The theaters I couldn't remember were the Film Forum on Houston Street in New York City. The man who programs Film Forum 2, where they have the revivals, is Bruce Goldstein: bruce@filmforum.org
He could be the "white knight" who could save the Mayfair/DeMille/Embassy for Cinerama and 70 MM revivals, if he hasn't thought of it already. The other possibility could be Disney. They do very well with the El Capitan in Hollywood (which is run for them by Pacific Theaters.) Those little "stage shows" they do along with their movies don't require a stage house--although they do use most of the stage now--but the shows they produced when they first took over theater were mounted down stage in front of the screen. (They had to be as someone had the dumb idea of installing permanent plaster wall in back of the screen when they renovated the theater.
Anyway...it is just an idea.

More information is needed about the role that Walter Reade (pioneer exhibitor, circuit owner, and father of Walter Reade, Jr.) played in the history of the Mayfair Theatre. Reade Sr. was responsible for the building of the Mayfair and spent $1,162,000 on the project, according to press reports of the time. How Reade acquired the site from Columbia Amusement Company is unknown, but perhaps in bankruptcy proceedings when Columbia shut down. Rather than operate the Mayfair himself, Reade leased it to RKO for a period of 20 years and an annual rent of $300,000, starting from 10/31/30. Less than three years later, RKO dropped the Mayfair, claiming that it would concentrate on the nearby Palace, which it owned and would convert to a cinema by dropping vaudeville. I have yet to find how RKO was able to get out of its lease, but Reade continued operating the Mayfair on his own until Loew's took a ten-year lease starting in June, 1935. This was coincidental with the closing of Loew's New York Theatre & Roof, which Loew's had run since 1915 but was being demolished along with the rest of the Olympia complex. For the next ten years, Loew's used the Mayfair as a showcase for subsequent-run double features, the same policy as at Loew's New York. In 1945, Loew's declined to renew its lease due to Federal anti-trust proceedings against the company. Reade found a new tenant in Brandt Theatres, which turned it into a first-run. Problems developed in August, 1957, when Brandt's Mayfair suddenly closed, with "Night Passage" as its final attraction. The Mayfair's next booking, "Battle Hell," was switch to Brandt's Central. The Mayfair remained dark until December of that year, when it re-opened with "The Enemy Below," under the "independent" management of Burt Resnick & I. Rackow. I believe that they were just agents for Walter Reade Theatres, which had plans to eventually run the Mayfair.

So it's been neglected in one way or another since soon after its opening.

A curious photo of the building's exterior in 1952 is featured on page 97 of the recently published "Times Square Style." The photo is looking north from 47th Street, with the famous statue of Father Duffy in the foreground and blocking any view of the Mayfair's marquee or entrance. However, the rest of the building's facade can be seen. In a blank area usually leased for advertising, there's a sign that says "This advertising space FOR RENT. Contact WALTER READE [followed by phone number and office address too small for me to decipher]." In 1952, the Mayfair was still being operated by the Brandt circuit. At the time of the photo, the large corner sign was not for a movie but for Schaefer Beer.

Photographs and an article about the Columbia Theatre can be found in Architecture & Building Magazine, Voulume 42 (covering October 1909-September 1910), starting on page 218. The Columbia had three levels of fire escapes on the 47th Street side of the building. The north side of the theatre, which was not visible from the street, also had fire exits that emptied into a "court." Seating plans don't show where that "court" went to, but presumably into 47th or 48th Streets.

Andy, yes the Melanie concert was one of the concerts I remember at the DeMille. It did take place and was recorded too.

Couldnt some builder build above the existing theater like was done with the Palace?

A friend sent me a copy of a Billboard review from the issue of March 29, 1930 that seems to confirm that the Columbia was never a movie house and presented only burlesque for its entire lifetime. This date is just seven months prior to the October 31, 1930 opening night of the brand new RKO Mayfair. The Columbia show, "Nite Club Girls," opened March 17, and must have been one of the last to play there. By this time, Columbia burlesque included strip-tease numbers. Top-billed Jessie McDonald is described in the Billboard review as "A redheaded, red-hot leading lady comedienne; a sizzling singing and dancing soubret in production numbers, and a distinctive, delightful, teasing stripper in spotlighted stage parades of her slender, symmetrical, effervescent personality in several specialties. Featured fems in other shows should see and hear Jessie in this show and see for themselves how a real, dynamic dancing routine enhances a strip."

Going over some old ads 8/10/69 The Demille was day and dating with the Murray Hill on a film called The Gay Decievers. On 1/31/72 they were presenting The Abductors.

Hey, I got a sex education class from The DeMille. I was a kid on one of my family jaunts to Broadway & Times Square from Long Island. Ok, I admit I begged my parents every summer to take us to see the theatres of Times Square, I was obsessd even then. Well, up I walk to The Demille and it was playing "The Christine Jorgensen Story" and they had a box out front with a one sheet and a screen and they were playing a continuous loop of the trailer. Does anyone else remember those boxes? It was way before VCR's so I'll assume it was a 16mm projector? Well of course I had to ask Mom who Christine Jorgensen was, to where she answered he was a man who had an operation to become a woman. Uncomfortable of course and wanting to change the subject she said "OK, lets keep going"...up the street to The Criterion, we went. Oh look they have a trailer box too. Gee Mom, who is Myra Breckenridge?

Bob T...great story. Even I remember those boxes and I'm considerably younger than you. Around March or April of 1979, we were in Times Square during our spring/Easter break with my Mom. We eventually ended up in Times Square where we saw "The China Syndrome" at the Loews State (upstairs). But on the way, one theater (can't remember which) had one of those boxes playing a continuous loop of a very so-so George Hamilton flick called "Love at First Bite". It seemed like it was on the same side as the Loews State so it may well have been the Criterion or maybe the DeMille though I don't know if it was still the DeMille in 1979. Anyone know?

That's a great story, Bob! It sure was wild in those days around 1969-1970. The new ratings system (GMRX) was in place and the floodgates were open for sexy movies. I recall passing a display for a movie playing at the Orleans Theater in 1969 (across Broadway from the DeMille) called "Can Heironymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?" Rated X, released by Universal. The ads in all the New York papers spelled it like this:
"Mercy H-----".

CC: I saw "Love at First Bite" at the National Theater, which was between 43rd and 44th St. on the same side as the Criterion and the DeMille. I think it's the ABC TV studios now.

Ok, that was it! I remember distinctly that it was on the same side as the State...don't ask me how or why.

Christmas 1971 the DeMille was day and dating "Diamonds Are Forever" with Reades Waverly, the 86th Street East and suprisingly Cinema Studio. In Queens at Centurys Meadows, UA Midway & UA Colony. In Brooklyn Centurys King Plaza North, Kingsway, Rialto and Loews Alpine. On Staten Island at the New Richmond. In the Bronx at American, Luxor and Wakefield. In Nassau Centurys Green Acres, Grove, Parkeast, Morton Village, Meadowbrook and Town. In Suffolk at Centurys Shore, Smithaven Mall, Cinema and Patchouge.

Writing about the preview boxes sitting in front of the Times Square theatres, does anyone remember the tripod signs for roadshow attractions with the "box attached" with ticket order forms in them?
It was just this past weekend going through some of my "treasures" of old newspaper ads and found a couple of "Ticket Order Forms" for the reserved seat engagement of "Hawaii" at the DeMille Theatre. Does anyone also remember the free programs handed out at the roadshow attractions. In this same "treasure" I have any ample supply of "The Program" from "Doctor Zhivago." It is just one folded page with the movie's logo on the front, the double inside has the cast of characters and the back has a synopsis of the film. Of course, you could also purchase the souveneir programs which I think back in those days were $2.00 to $5.00! All this and the thrill of seeing the film in a "palace". Those were the days!

6/11/69 the Demille played "Dr. Zhivago" for one week at popular prices and continuous performances. The ad does not say if it was 35 or 70mm. I would guess on a re-release like this it was 35mm, but you never know the Demille was still an "A' house then.

"6/11/69 the Demille played "Dr. Zhivago" for one week at popular prices and continuous performances. The ad does not say if it was 35 or 70mm."
***********************

What does the "70mm in NY" article over at www.FromScriptToDVD.com say? :)

I remember reading that Mike Todd Jr. made the first and only film in smell-o-vision. I believe it was called "Scent of Mystery" and opened at the RKO Strand (Cinerama). I just found an ad for the DeMille advertising a picture in AromaRama called "Behind the Great Wall". Anyone know the story on this one?

Sorry I was just reading the old posts above and found the answer to my question.

An unusual ad for the 1949 Wizard of Oz re-release.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/WizardofOz1949re-release.jpg

This 1949 revival at the Mayfair wasn't very successful. When "Oz" moved on to the Loew's circuit, it played as the second feature to Esther Williams' "Neptune's Daughter."

Walt Disney's "Cinderella" (released by RKO Radio) had its NYC premiere engagement at Brandt's Mayfair, opening on February 22, 1950. On March 22nd, it started playing simultaneously at the RKO Albee in downtown Brooklyn, also as a single feature. On Monday, April 10th (the start of Easter Week), "Cinderella" opened on the RKO neighborhood circuit, with the documentary "Savage Splendor" as second feature. To accommodate the expected hordes of children, the RKO nabes opened their doors at 8AM daily. On April 10th, "Cinderella" was replaced at the Mayfair by "Guilty of Treason," an Eagle Lion release with Charles Bickford and Bonita Granville.

A Joan Crawford and Jerry Lewis Double Bill

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/JoanCrawfordisBeserk.jpg

Here is an ad from "Spartacus" when it switched to continuos showings from roadshow while still at the DeMille
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Spartacus.jpg

Saw the new trailer for 'King Kong' this weekend. It's shown before 'War of the Worlds'. Nice computer-generated '30s shot of the Mayfair towards the end of it.

3 Roadshows
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/3Roadshows.jpg

Thanks, Robert. I wish "Becket" would get released on DVD someday. What a good movie.

As mentioned in earlier posts, the Columbia Theater opened January 3, 1910 as the flagship theater of the Columbia Amusement Company. My Grandfather, Sam A. Scribner, was secretary and General Manager of the company, which was incorporated July 12, 1902.

Scribner wrote his nephew, James Canning, a merchant in Brookville PA (Scribner's home town) on January 4, 1910, stating "I think last night was the biggest night of my life. We opened the new Broadway theater, and every person in New York of theatrical and mercantile prominence was there. Your old friend John Wannamaker spent a half hour in the building just before we opened the doors, and said it was as pretty a theatre as he had ever seen. However he could not very well say anything else, because he was the decorator; that is, he furnished all the decorations, carpets, etc. Instead of painting the walls, we hung them in DuBarry rose damask, and covered the entire floor, both orchestra and gallary, with specially made carpet to match. It certainly was a big night."

A family history compiled by my uncle, John H. M. Scribner, quotes the opening night review in the New York American as follows: "The playhouse is a twelve story building with the main enterance on Broadway. An artistically decorated room lobby leads to the auditorium, which is oval in shape, a design adapted to insure perfect accustic qualities. There are about seven hundred seats on the main floor, and the entire capacity is 1,800. There are two balconies and six large boxes. The predominating colors are old gold and various tones of French grays. The interior decorations are in the Louis XVI style. Above the procenium arch is a large painting representing the Muses, the work of Arthur Thomas, R. A." According to my uncle's narriative, opening night reviews also appeared in the Morning telegraph, the New York Clipper, and The Sun.

According to an article in Variety January 11, 1928, the Columbia Amusement Company (the "Columbia Wheel" and its rival Mutual Association (the "Mutual Wheel") were merged into the United Burlesque Circuit. -- Peter Scribner scribstuff@rochester.rr.com

Here's an early image of the building when it housed the Columbia Burlesque Theatre:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/122-2265_IMG.jpg

Saw
'Cinderella Liberty' here.

This is an ad for "Goldfinger" featuring the DeMille's 24-hour continuous playing times during Christmas week 1964. I'd love to see how many people attended that 4 AM show.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/goldfinger.jpg

Liked seeing that bit of ad for Billy Wilder's "Kiss Me, Stupid", for adults only, at the Astor. It really was pretty dirty for the time; ever a little dirty for today!

Here's part of another ad for "Kiss Me, Stupid":

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/stupid.jpg

From December 1931. All seats 35 cents:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/karloff.jpg

Reading that ad I noticed a funny coincidence--It says No One Seated During Final Reel, which is a precursor or foreshadowing of the policy at this same theater for Psycho 30 years later, when no one was seated after the feature began.

Did Disney's "Dumbo" open here?

No, "Dumbo" had its NYC opening at the Broadway Theatre in October, 1941. At that time, the Mayfair was under Loew's management and unlikely to play an RKO release. Please consult the Broadway's listing for more details about "Dumbo" running there.

I was walking by here last night and the building is still not rented.

"Diamonds Are Forever" opened at the Demille on a BOND Showcase.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/CarnalKnowledge.jpg

The other night TCM showed Hitchcock's Psycho. Following the movie was an eight minute newreel called "Releasing Psycho" which was all about the 'no one will be admitted after the show starts' campaign. The eight minute clip had extensive views of the DeMille.

I'm sorry I missed that. Was on too late for me to watch. :(

TJ - It was interesting to see. It was late for me also, and from the TCM website you could not tell if was on before or after the movie.
I recorded it and watched it last night. For the record, it was on after the movie which would have been about 1:15AM .

I actually watched the movie through the shower scene, then went to bed. I didnt realize that featurette was going to be on after or I would've taped it! :(

TCM is airing Psycho again Monday night (HALLOWEEN!) at 6pm Eastern. Its in a 2 hour slot, so I'd like to hope that the featurette will follow.

Thanks! I'll tape it just in case!

Here's a 1943 image of the Loew's marquee, which was a shortened version of the original that extended all the way to and around the corner of West 47th Street. Loew's added neon clocks on the north and south sides of the marquee. If the time was correct, it was nearly 6:40 PM. I wonder why there were so few people on the streets? The program was a double bill from the Loew's circuit. At that time, the Mayfair was playing split weeks of shows from both the Loew's and RKO circuits.
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/maymarq.jpg

Went by the Demille today. Still nothing going on there. The marquee is there with an advertisement for sale. The panels over the front doors are black. Not sure if it because they keep painting the boards to keep from people posting bills.

I did have my camera and took some pictures I will try to get them loaded next day or so.

Warren... I was thinking the same thing about the lack of people and cars when your shot was taken! I can understand how with a long exposure people hustling by might have blurred themselves out of the image, but what about car headlight streaks?

Where is everybody?!?

When you blow-up the photo you can see a ghost of a car near the fire plug and some ghosting of people under the southern end of the marquee. There is a lot of people at the corner waiting for the light to change and a ghost of a car too. There is more traffic down by the State Theatre. Remember on those rare times in Times Square, you might not have any cars or very few cars passing for up to afew blocks away. And was it cold windy night, I know I walk alittle faster.

There are at least two possible explanations for the shortage of people. It was wartime, and the photo might have been taken during or just after an air-raid drill. It also might have been 6:40 in the morning, as some midtown theatres stayed open 24 hours a day to accommodate those who worked on the night shifts in war-essential businesses.

I looked up "Phantom of the Opera" on imdb.com, which lists an initial release date of August 27th, 1943. Would the day have been as dark at 6:40 whether am or pm in late August early September? Did they set clocks back and forth for Daylight Savings at this time? Maybe the dates on imdb are wrong. Unless this was a 2nd run... "Phantom" was a Universal Pictures release - did their product generally run on the Loew's circuit? And a Blondie flick on the same bill?

Isn't this a wonderful country where such minutia can be dissected and debated? In any event... another wonderful photo, Warren. Thanks!

Also for the 40's in Times Square there is very little light above the Palace and none above the Embassy. Very dark for the era. Also if this was 6:40 in the evening in September it would still be light out wouldn't it?

I remember seeing "Beaches" in one of the splt theatres that had originally been a part of the balcony section before the theatre finally closed. The seats were very uncomfortable. I had seen "Spartacus" there when the Mayfair was renamed the DeMille. It was much more comfortable to see a movie there then.

"Phantom of the Opera" had its NYC premiere engagement at the Capitol Theatre (with stage show). It appears to have started its Loew's circuit run in November, but would have taken three or four weeks to reach the Mayfair, which was at the bottom of the rung...I believe that during those years, we had "war time," which was equivalent to permanent daylight savings time...Also, during the war, gasoline was strictly rationed, so you wouldn't see that many cars, expecially in the Times Square area, which was so easily reached by public transport...In the Greater New York area, the Loew's & RKO circuits did a 50/50 split of Universal releases. I don't know how they decided which would play Loew's and which RKO. Perhaps they tossed coins. Nearly all Columbia releases played Loew's, and I think that included the entire "Blondie" series.

Who's Blondie? (just kidding)

As promised here are recent photos of what's left of this great theatre. These were taken on 10/29/05


http://www.flickr.com/photos/11273693@N00/57683395/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11273693@N00/57682911/

There must be more than just what's seen in those two photos. What about the theatre's interior? Has it been totally gutted, or is it still in its final multiplex formation?

I'm sure that there is, but I wasn't able to get inside.

I was wondering the same, Warren. So, I placed a call to the number listed on the marquee. It seems the theater is pretty much in the same shape as it was the day it ran its final screenings. The gentlemen I spoke with mentioned that "somebody did a half-ass job of triplexing the place" but that the cost would be insignificant to have the partitions removed. He also mentioned that the stage would have to be extended to accomodate live shows because at some point the stage was cut, but that there were still dressing rooms and fly space. I assume he meant that it was cut downstage to accommodate a movie screen. He gave me the seating capacity as 1100, which is a far cry from the 1735 listed above. Perhaps he was speaking only of the orchestra seating? The rent, in case we're all interested in pooling our funds to run our own movie theater, would be $1.5 million per year "to start." There are no plans to demolish or gut the theater at this time and a deal could be struck for a long term lease of 10 to 15 years, but no more than that.

I wonder how serious I'd have to prove myself to get a glimpse of the interior (and some photographs, naturally)?

Would be nice if the Moma would use it for wide screen films in conjunction with the American Cinemateque. Nobody but us seems to realize that it's the last movie theater left in Times Square and other than the Paris maybe the last one left in Manhattan.

When the company I work for was looking at the theatre it's rent was just 1 million per year, that was around three years ago. We were going to use it as a Film Industry screening theatre. When they triplexed the house they went the cheap route all around. The cost of the rent and to restore the interior was just to high to operate the house. Our people said the theatre was too worn and it had been sitting empty since 1998. So they vetoed the project.

The reduction in seating could be from two or three reasons. When it was planned to use the downstairs house with strippers a runway was built down the center aisle in good burlesque fashion (the lip of the stage could have been extended as well). Perhaps the seats were never replaced in that area in the orchestra. Also remember that there's a fairly wide gap between the two upper auditoriums for the light from the center projector to hit the downstairs screen. While as I have mentioned earlier, the space should have been bigger to pass a Scope or 70mm 2.2l image that would fill the width of the proscenium, it was wide enough to accomodate 1.85 projection. That's a really steep, long balcony, so if seats were removed from the balcony rail to the upper back wall that could probably account for over a hundred seats. As noted above, they weren't particularly comfortable, so its possible that the balcony (or some areas) retained older narrower seats from a previous incarnation which would have upped the total number of seats. In addition the lobby wall of the orchestra was moved forward during the renovation to accomodate the stores in the former lobby area. That would also have eaten up seats. While I was in the orchestra auditorium during the renovation, I never poked my nose in when I worked there. One of the reasons was that the single entrance was a ways from the stairs to to the upper theatre and the booth, and kind of looked like a dingy alley, so much of the under balcony space had been sacrificed to the shops.

Marquee change:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/emb234.jpg

Look at this great ad for "Psycho". It went out on the wide run while still plying the Demille.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Psycho.jpg

Odd, nowadays, to see an ad with staggered start dates at different theaters. "Held over 3 more days" implying that a new feature would have normally been booked starting Wednesday (which is still a fairly common opening day)... but "Psycho" was starting on a Saturday in many theaters featured in the ad and would be ending it's run on Friday at the DeMille, Baronet and Brooklyn Paramount. It's amazing how release strategies have changed so much since then. Even in the '70's it was not uncommon to have films roll out on different days (and with different co-features) depending on the theater. I used to wonder why certain theaters would play a different 2nd feature or drop the 2nd feature alltogether.

I noticed some damage while driving by this morning. It looks like a truck recently clipped the front of the marquee.

The marquee has been damaged for a few years now.

This is new, additional damage. I pass the theater a few times a week. Jagged, bent pieces of metal are now jutting out of the front.

I saw the new "King Kong" from Peter Jackson last night and it features some stunning digital recreations of New York City circa 1933. While artistic liberties are taken, Times Square is well represented in the film. The Mayfair Theater in particular, with it's huge wrap-around corner billboard, is probably the most prominently recognizable Times Square landmark featured in the climactic New York sequence of the film. The theater where Kong is put on display in the film is a fictional "Alhambra Theater" that has more or less displaced the Palace on the block between 47th and 46th Street, although Jackson has it located on the other side of the old Newsreel Theater (Embassy 1) in his "reel" world. The action and camera movements in this sequence are very rapid-fire, so I'm sure I'll be making good use of the "pause" and "rewind" buttons on my remote to make geeky study of all the digital detail work in the recreation (particularly as it relates to the theaters depicted) when the movie is released on DVD.

The atmospheric interior of the "Alhambra" belongs to the very real Civic Theatre in Auckland, New Zealand, which is evidently still very much in use for both cinematic presentation and live events. The theater is a stunning overseas effort by atmospheric guru John Eberson.

As for the movie itself, if anyone is interested... the first hour didn't really work for me; I found it unevenly acted, under-directed, over-scored and poorly written. However, once the characters are set to sea and their ship encounters the mysterious fog that shrouds Kong's native Skull Island, the film really takes off on a rip-roaring adventure. Great fun. Technically dazzling and rather touching throughout... and there are some clever (and not-so-clever) references to bits of dialog and business (and use of Max Steiner's classic score) from the original Cooper/Shoedsack film sprinkled about with varying success. Bottom line, the old B&W version still reigns supreme, but this is a worthy re-envisioning and technical update.

One small correction. The information on this site that John Eberson was architect for the Civic Theatre in New Zealand seems to be in error. The theatre's description states the style is "Ebersonian" and the theatre's official website notes C. Bohringer as architect.

An image of the exterior as Loew's late-run "grindhouse." Further north, note the sign for Columbia Pictures, which then had its HQ at 729 Seventh Avenue, in the same building as United Artists Corp.:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfairsign.jpg

There is a wonderful reproduction of The Mayfair in the new "King Kong". Check it out as the mighty Kong rampages through Times Square!

I just sent this e-mail to Mayor Ed Koch. Let's hope he becomes interested and something is done about this theater. Best, Andrés.
Dear Mayor Koch:
I am taking the liberty of writing to you because some time ago you gave out your e-mail address on the NY1 Wiseguys segment (which I never miss). But this not about politics, it's about movies. Specifically, Cinerama.
As a die hard movie fan just like you ( I was involved in film exhibition back home in Puerto Rico, where we had a Cinerama theater ); I think Cinerama should be brought back to New York City.
Triple projection Cinerama and its huge curved screen debuted right here in New York City at the Broadway Theatre on September 1952. Yet, while Seattle and Los Angeles have Cinerama theatres, New York, "The Capital of the World," does not. I am sure a Cinerama theater in Times Square, "the crossroads of the world," would be a terrific tourist attraction and would bring movie loving visitors and money to the city. Besides triple projection Cinerama, the theater could show 70mm spectaculars like "Lawrence of Arabia" as they were intended to be seen. Also, the venue could be used for other movie attractions such as a 3D festival like they had last summer at the Egyptian Theatre in Los Angeles. Except for the occasional double projection 3D film at the Film Forum, most contemporary New Yorkers have not seen double projection 3D, just as they have not seen Cinerama. Last summer both the American Museum of the Moving Image in Queens and the Walter Reade Theater at Lincoln Center celebrated 50 years of wide screen movies. It's ironic that it was Cinerama that started it all right here in New York City and we don't have a Cinerama theater.
As for the venue, the abandoned Embassy 2-3-4 (formerly the DeMille, originally the RKO Mayfair) on Seventh Avenue and 47th Street, is wide enough for triple projection Cinerama since it used to play 70mm spectaculars in its heyday.
I have written to a contact I have at City Hall, to Chrystine Nicholas of NYC & Co., whom I happen to know, though I have not seen her in years; to members of the City Council who belong to the film/theatre committee, to no avail. Someone like you, a liked former mayor with contacts in all walks of life, can surely convince a group of investors/film people to bring Cinerama back to NYC, THE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!
Think about it Mayor Koch, if someone can do it it's you. Let's bring back Cinerama to it's birthplace, New York City. Again, if someone can do it, it's you Mayor Koch.
Incidentally, I missed you at the retirement party of Amy Betanzos last October at the Time Warner Center.
Respectfully,
Andrés Roura

Thanks, Andres... I hope your letter sets things into motion. The Mayfair, in fact, did present 3-strip widescreen on at least one occasion. I was reading through some old movie reviews on the NY TImes website and came across Vincent Canby's piece on the 1966 "Cinerama's Russian Adventure" that was playing at the Warner's Cinerama (former Strand). In the review, Canby mentions that that this was actually a film in the Russian process called Kinopanorama and further states that a film called "Great is My Country", which was also filmed in the Cinerama-like 3-camera system, had played at the Mayfair ("now the Demille" he points out) in July of '59.

I doubt the equipment is still there, but I'm sure the theater could be very easily re-furbished for exhibition of 3-strip Cinerama. Keep us informed as to how we might get involved.

By the way, you can still make out some of the letters on the south side of the marquee under the white sheet draped upon it with the "For Lease" sign. I believe the title at the top of the marquee is the Will Smith film "Enemy of the State" from 1998.

Thanks for your letter, Andres. Even if nothing comes of it, at least you made the effort - and it's such a nice thing to dream about and hope for.

Does anyone know who actually owns the theater property now? Why do they ask such astronomical rent? Who could ever make a profit and pay rent like that? Is it just a tax write off? Its a shame to let that theater just rot away there........

Andres, you wrote to the wrong Mayor. It's Bloomberg now! I hope that your letter gets delivered. It might even be forwarded to Koch, who's still living.

I think Andres is purposely writing to our former Mayor Koch to engage his considerable influence as a private citizen. Andres would probably never get the ear of the Bloomberg administration, but he might reach Koch - who in turn can use his clout and connections to get Bloomberg's ear on the matter. Here's to that effort!

You got it right EdSolero. The current adminitration did not even acknowledge my letter as they are supposed to do when a constituent writes to City Hall, even though I sent it through a person I know at the Mayor's office. The letters are not responded to personally by the mayor of course. The Mayor's Correspondence Unit responds and then fowards the letter to the appropiate city agency or unit, in my case the Film Commission. They are supposed to respond to the constituent within 10 days. That office never acknowledged my letter or responded. That's why I turned to Koch. Koch is not only a person of considerable influence, but he loves the movies. When the Regency in the Upper West Side was taken over by Cineplex Odeon and changed its programming from repertory to first run, Koch initiated and led a picket line in front of the theater, as he did when Loews or Cineplex raised the ticket prices many years ago. He write a weekly movie column -- reviews -- in The
Villager. Andres.

Koch?!!!!
He was the one who fought for the destruction of the Helen Hayes, Morosco, Bijou, Astor and Victoria!
He was the one who wanted the Marriott built-one of New Yorks great architectural disasters.
He told Papp who fought for these great theaters that Broadway was dead and who gave a damn anyway.
This was the cornerstone of the complete and total devastation of corporate America on New York's greatest neighborhood.
Truly one of the most detestable and loathsome New Yorkers ever!
And I'm being nice.

Do you want me to continue?
I was one of the people who fought to retain the Regency as a Rep house and I knew those who were instumental in forming this protest. Not only am I not aware that Koch had anything to do with trying to save the theater but I don't remember any of the diehards ever mentioning him. If they had I would have responded with total disbelief.

Vincent: You know better than I if Koch was not directly involved in the movement to save the Regency, but I remember he was at the picket line at least once.
As for yor opinion of him, I respect it.
I just want and hope like all of you who contribute to this site that this theater is saved.
Best, Andres.

Vincent, how do you really feel about former Mayor Koch?

Vincent... is that a fact? Was it Koch himself who promoted the redevelopment of that historic block for Marriott? I know during his administration we witnessed the loss of many cinema treasures (RKO Keith's, Rivoli, State, Strand) but I just thought it was business as usual being conducted in offices peripheral to the Mayor (ie, Queens Boro Pres Donald Manes culpability in the Keith's fiasco).

I guess now that he's free from the bonds of political indebtedness, he has an opportunity - presented by Andres - to make up for some of the sins of his past. If not, Vincent, where do you think Andres should turn in his efforts to restore this theater to its intended use?

You're right, Vincent. It was his watch when those theaters went down. I'd forgotten about that. Wasnt he intrumental in getting those Times Square skycrapers built that destroyed many movie theaters?

The only thing that's going to save or restore that theatre is someone with lots of money. The lease rent is very high to operate as a single screen theatre in that market. The landlords jacked the rent when the last leasee left.

I spent the past year doing r&d on this property. We have been through this theater from head to toe and inside/out. In fact, we had a negotiated lease ready to sign. Bottom Line: The combined costs of renovating someone else's property and doing business on Times Square is virtually cost prohibitive. The landlords agent and legal council were always honorable and professional but still, it is a complicated situation to work through.

If my memory does not fail me, it was late in Koch's administration that plans to renovate Times Square began, and they continued under Dinkins and finally Giuliani. It was during Giuliani's administration that the Disney deal to restore the New Amsterdam was made and the Disneyfication of the area began, including the construction of all the new skyscrapers, where incidentally, Giuliani Partners is located in one of them; the one next to the New Amsterdam in the southwest corner of 42d St. Sadly, some of the 42nd St. theates were lost, but others renovated -- i.e. New Victory -- and the facade and lobby of the Empire were incorporated into the monstruousity known as the AMC 25. As for the Rivoli, State, Srand/Warner, etc.; the blame goes to greedy Loews, United Artists and the real estate developers, not to any particular mayor. Andres.

But Koch was a great corporate shill. He was very vocal and fought hard for that Marriott. He and the great Joe Papp went at it hammer and tongs in the media. He was the figurehead for that catastrphe. Without Koch and others like him in their pocket the developers could not do what they had done.

Andreco, I agree with most of your points, but I do wish to point out that the entire Empire Theatre is part of the AMC...facade, lobby and auditorium; the auditorium is now the AMC's lobby.

What would all you Times Square bashers want done with Times Square? Back in 1979 it was a squalid has been of a place. Yes, today it's glitzy but without any real entertainment value aside from the Broadway Theaters which are basically expensive tourist traps (OK..some shows are worthwhile but the good ones don't run long enough or interest the tourists). But what was NYC supposed to do? I work right in the area and during Christmas time, the area was PACKED to the gills. I've never seen anything like it but it ws FUN to see all these people there enjoying the sites. Yes, I agree 100% that it would be wonderful if there were at least one or two of the old great movie houses there and belive wholeheartedly that if one had managed to survivie, it could thrive today as perhaps a IMAX venue (think of The Rivoli operating in that capacity!)

But something had to be done and I think that they Koch and Guilianni administrations did the best they could.

CConnolly... Just my two cents:

I love the Times Square area, even though I have great nostalgia for the way things were and have a number of criticisms about the direction its OVERdevelopment has taken in the last 10 years. I wouldn't consider it "bashing" to wax nostalgic for bygone days. Yes, there was a dangerous and forbidding element to the area, say 15 or 20 years ago, but there was also a sense of honky-tonk and wickedness that lent an air of adventure to the place. Perhaps I'm looking back through the naiveté of my youth, but the redevelopment of the district has squashed most of the atmosphere that defined the Square to begin with and has all but completely eradicated its cinematic legacy in favor of corporate-vanity projects, like the towering and overwhelming Reuters and Conde Naste skyscrapers.

The only elements that were held aloft on a pedestal for preservation were the legitimate theater and the concept of excessive electronic signage. Surely there must have been some room to tidy up and increase security in the area for tourists while also preserving/restoring at least a few of the remaining movie theaters (such as the Rivoli, State and Strand) in a nod to the area's identity as a premier showcase for big Hollywood films. I thank the efforts of all involved (both political and corporate) for the beautiful restoration of the New Amsterdam and Victory Theaters and I'm thankful that folks from other parts of the world are once again interested in coming to my city and investing much of their hard earned dollars into the local economy. But I'm supremely disappointed that the architects of the area's redevelopment had such blatant disregard for its great tradition of cinematic showmanship. In that regard, I think the Koch and Guiliani administration (and all other parties involved) did something significantly less then their best.

I agree that with the re-development of Times Square "they" definately threw the baby out with the bathwater. But that happens with wide scale redevelopments like this. I'm appalled at what I look at what replaced The Rivoli as I work right across the street from "it". It has to be one of the most unremarkable and bland looking office buildings in the world.

But if you still want something honky tonk, 8th and 9th Avenues (FOR NOW) still has that. I don't know how long it will last though. I see more and more of these beautifully off beat stores on 9th being closed up and redone by these stupid oh-so-trendy looking restaurants.

But last week I was shocked and actually pleasantly surprised to see something on 10th & 48th that I haven't seen in years: a hooker in broad daylight! So yes, the seediness may have been pushed away but it's never that far from the old Times Square. And I agree with you that during the mid 80s when I used to go into "the city" often, the funkiness and ruff-and-tumble atmosphere is what appealed to me the most. There was a mix of the refined and the low that could only be found in deal old Manhattan.

What's the state of the old Criterion now that the Toys R Us has closed? Any hope of that being resurrected in some form or was that completely gutted?

The toys r us closed?

And if it did, does anyone really believe that with that expensive property someone's going to open up (of all things) a movie theater?

Toys R Us hasn't closed.

Toys R Us is still open.

I was there this past weekend and Toys 'R' Us is definitely still open for business. Besides, most of the building - beyond just the theater itself - was gutted to the outer walls for the conversion. I do recall reading in one of the earlier comments, that some remnant of the theater was visible at the rear of the store's 2nd level, but I have not made it back to the store to check it out.

I know Toys 'R' Us has gone through some financial difficulties and has closed many of its stores, but most of the locations I'm familiar with in the NY area are still up and running (and presumably doing well). I did note that a well located Long Island location of the Virgin Megastore had closed down, but the Times Square branch continues to thrive. I'm sure the extraordinary volume of foot traffic keeps both locations among each company's most profitable - despite what must be extremely high operating nuts.

When Apple Computer announced it would open a 2nd store in NYC, I was very surprised to learn the location would NOT be in Times Square but up in the GM Building on 5th and 59th. Perhaps CEO Steve Jobs prefers the more elegant company of FAO Schwartz, Bergdorf Goodman, Tiffany's, the Plaza Hotel and Central Park to the louder and more obnoxious environs of Times Square!

I know this is way off topic EdSolero but the Virgin Megastore on LI that closed...was that in that awful mall on Old Country Road where the Fortunoff's is?

I never liked the Westbury Virgin store, I think it's being so close to Tower Records in Carle Place hurt it.

I thought I read/heard somewhere that it had closed. No, I didnt have high hopes, but I was wondering how much of the theater still existed.

Yes, it was the one in the Source Mall where Fortunoff's is. You would have thought with the crowds that gather there waiting for 90 minutes for a table at the Cheesecake Factory or P.F. Chaing's, there'd be sufficient time for some impulse shopping at Virgin, but it wasn't to be.

Again, this is way OT and I'm just waiting for someone to object but I have to say that the "Source Mall" is one of the worst most depressing malls I've ever been in. There's no central feeling to the place. It's just kind of like a bunch of stores haphazardly stuck together with a tiny common space. I remember when the original plans were put forth for the mall, it was supposed to be HUGE. But the neighborhood objected and it got reduced in scale. Because of the poor layout, people don't spill over to the Virgin Megastore while waiting for the overpriced food at Cheesecake Factory or PF Changs.

A portion of the auditorium that had a wall on 45th Street is now occupied by a restaurant called Bond's. I don't know how deeply the restaurant extends into the ground floor of the auditorium, but I would imagine pretty far.

I was going to mention that, Warren... but I figured that should be a discussion for the Criterion site. Not that discussing L.I. malls has much to do with the old Mayfair either!!! The place is called Bond 45 in a nod to the famous clothing store and discothèque than had shared occupancy of the building with the Criterion over the years. The red and blue block neon lettering over the entrance is very much in the spirit of the old Times Square (a welcome respite from the blinding electronic video displays that dominate the area). Sort of reminds me of the old Jack Dempsey's that occupied a corner of the Brill Building once upon a time.

Yes, Bond 45 has a great sign. I'd like to see more like it.

Well, Koch said no. Here is his e-mail:

Thank you for your e-mail. I suggest that you write to Katherine Oliver, Commissioner of the Mayor's Office of Film, Theater and Broadcasting, 1687 Broadway, New York, New York 10019. She is in charge of movie production in New York City. Also, you should renew your correspondence with Chrystine Nicholas. It is not a matter that I plan on adding to my own plate.

All the best and good luck.
Ed Koch

Let's bombard Ms. Oliver and Ms. Nycholas (at NYC&CO) with letters on saving the DeMille/Embassy 2-3-4. Andres.

As I have written many times on this and other pages Martin Scorsese would be a very important person to have help build at this site an American Cinemateque as they have in CA. But as opposed to the one in CA or the MOMA and Film Forum in New York this would have an impressive screen maybe 70 feet or more enabling them to show the great wide screen films as they were meant to be seen, not letterboxed as they are shown at the two NY screening rooms mentioned above. And wouldn't it be wonderful if the space were adaptable to 3 screen Cinerama as well? Of course this would involve a lot of donations help from the city and many important film and theater people involved for publicity sake(maybe De Niro would join in?) The old Mayfair would be the perfect space but it seems that the few of us who visit this site are the only ones who think this way.

It's funny, Vincent, that you mention and have mentioned Scorsese because a friend of mine from LA suggested to me yesterday that we should contact him. Scorsese has a good comment about Cinerama on the Cinerama Adventure web. Does anyone know how to reach him?
Or De Niro? He has a restaurant and lives downown in Tribeca, doesn't he?. Andres.

I wonder as well about Ted Turner. How would he like a restored honest to god movie theater in Times Square named after him?

Vincent--Ted Turner claims to have lost most of his money in the AOL-Time Warner debacle. Better look elsewhere.

heres a recent exterior shot taken dec 2005
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/73318456/in/set-1113147/

There's a news item on the home page here announcing someone's desire to take this theater over and revive it as a center for live performance and independent film house. The plan is to have several auditoriums. I'm happy someone has interest in the place, I just wish there was a viable plan to restore it to single screen use and as a showcase for Cinerama presentation. Whatever the outcome, I hope it involves restoration of any original architectural character that might have been buried behind modernizations and multi-plexing that occured over the years.

I hope at least they de-twin the upstairs and leave that as one theater. Hope they can make a go of it. Some good news at least.

I worked for Guild theatres in the early 1980s, and was the manager of the Embassy 2,3,4. I also workes at times at the Embassy I, the Forum, and another theatre that Guild theatres operated.

I always enjoyed the many interesting architectural features of this theatre, and often wandered about the parts of the theatre that nobody else got to see. I recall a lot of space behind the screen from the original stage, with much of the equipment still in place. I recall several floors of dressing rooms on either side of the stage, and those horrendous labrynthian fire escapes... which were inside the building, but open to the sky.

When I was there, the original curtain still worked, and we would occasionally close it at the end of a film. I recall a some of the stage still projected in front of the screen and curtain, but do not know if the entire front part of the stage remained.

James,
Did the orchestra theater still have roadshow screen?

If you mean did it have the same size screen it had before it was triplexed...absolutely not. Because of the position of the projection booth for the downstairs auditorium, it became one of the smallest screens I have ever seen in a large theatre.

Check out this billboard in 1966
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Theatres/planecrazy.jpg

Thats true, while it was a large screen, it was only a fraction of the available space. There was a LOT of dead space around the projection area.

The billboard seems well before '66. Maybe someone cane tell us what year Plane Crazy came out.
'66 had the great 3D billboard for Hawaii. I would love to see a good color photo of that!

I suspect that's a "doctored" photo used to publicize a proposed stage musical called "Plane Crazy," which takes place in the 1960s. Check out: www.planecrazythemusical.com

On the Victoria page they have the actual photo. The billboard is actually displaying A Face in the Crowd. So they got the decade wrong.

According to ibdb.com, "Plane Crazy," devised by Suzy Conn, never opened on B'way. "Boeing Boeing," a play similar in theme, had a disasterous run at the Cort in Feb. '65, folding within three weeks; erstwhile MGM teen throb Carleton Carpenter was reduced to playing stand-by for its star, Ian Carmichael.

"A Face in the Crowd," advertised on the Mayfair's billboard in RobertR's photo album on the Victoria's page, opened at the Globe on 28 May '57. The Palace was still offering "8 Big Acts" of Vaudeville in '57. Squint as I might, I can't make out the film's title on the Palace's marquee--to me, it seems to have the words "Killer Racoons" in it, but I can find no listing for any movie with that phrase in the streamer; nor for any movie beginning with "It's" and including "Kill[er[[s]]]."

I think it is KRONOS listed as KILLER KRONOS.
May 12, 1957, Jeff Morrow, Barbra Lawrence, plus 8 Vaudeville acts.

I agree.
First line reads: On Screen ITS COLOSSAL
Second line reads: KILLER "KRONOS"
Third line reads: 8 ACTS VAUDEVILLE

Look at this awesome billboard for the Mayfair.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Theatres/demille.jpg

Below are a few shots I took of the theater back in 1993 when it was still in operation and then again in 2002 when it was not:

1993 Long shot with Show Follies
1993 Marquee and facade
2002 Long shot
2002 Marquee and facade

The marquee for the Show Follies porn palace is still in place, though it is now over the entrance to a typical Times Square gift shop. You can't make it out in either 2002 photo, but I seem to recall that you could make out the marquee lettering from the Will Smith & Gene Hackman flick "Enemy of the State" under the white canvas sheets hung over the marquee with the rental contact information. Assuming that was one of the last films to play here would place the closing of the Embassy 2,3,4 sometime in late 1998 or early '99.

Not sure what went wrong with those last two links. Here they are again:

2002 long shot
2002 marquee and facade

"Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines" at the Demille
embassy-1.jpg

Does anyone here have stats on the Kinopanorama presentation in 1959. I've contacted the Moscow film people, and they even dont seem to know much. The reviews mentioned a 60-plus foot screen, only 7 channels, not 8, being used. After the 2nd week, even "Variety" magazine didnt print the box office stats. Anybody know any more?

Does anybody have a color photo of the Hawaii billboard? That was also pretty spectacular.
The Magnificent Men had moving parts.The planes looking as if they were bobbing in the air and legs spinning.
Thank you RobertR!

Veyoung, here's a Bosley Crowther review from the NY Times that states it was 9-channel stereo. I found one more reference to this engagement in the Times when the film "Cinerama's Russian Adventure" was reviewed, but no mention of the kind of business it did.

RobertR... absolutely awesome photo of the Embassy, Palace and Demille!!! Is it one of your own or did you find it online?

Thanks, it was taken by a friend who managed theatres for many years in Times Square and then on 42 St, he is finally digging through his old stuff and making me copies.

I hate doing this writing about one theatre, but not another, but I moved to NYC in '82 and distinctly remember seeing movies on the west side of Times Square (opposite from the Embassy). I recently looked up the films I remembering seeing in those venues, but can't find the listings here. I remember in '87 going to see a movie called BEDROOM WINDOW in one of these theatres. I looked up the BR ad in the Times and it played at a theatre called the UA Twin @ Broadway & 49th, but I can't find a listing for that theatre? Is it listed and under what name?

And was there ever a third Embassy Cinema in Times Square called Embassy 4? I know the Embassy I was at 46th Street and the Triplex was at 49th Street, but was there an Embassy 4? Or was it simply the Embassy I at 46th Street, II, II & IV at 49th Street?

And I remember in the summer of '83 I saw STAR WARS revived in a first-run house on the west side of Times Square. The Times lists SW as playing that summer at the RKO Warner I. Again, no listing for a theatre called the RKO Warner I. Is that theatre listed?

The UA Twin @ Broadway and 49th was the last name used by the great Rivoli Theater - which is very much listed on this site. That theater was actually on a trapezoidal block bounded by the east side of Broadway and the west side of 7th Ave and running from 49th to 50th Street.

The Mayfair/Demille (the theater on this page) was known as the Embassy II, III, IV after it was triplexed and stands on 7th Avenue just off the northeast corner with 47th Street. The Embassy 1 is the former Newsreel Theater adjacent to the RKO Palace just a block to the south (and now the Times Square Visitors Center). The former Gaiety/Victoria theater on the west side of Broadway just south of 46th Street was briefly known as the Embassy V before it was razed (along with the old Astor and several legit theaters to the west) to make way for the Marriot Marquis in 1982. It is listed here as the Victoria.

The RKO Warner is listed here as the Strand Theater and was also known as the RKO Cinerama 1 and 2 during the 70's and '80's. It was demolished in the late '80's. The other theater you're looking for (on the west side of Times Square opposite the Embassy) is listed here as Movieland and was built as the Central and subsequently dubbed the Gotham, Forum, Forum 47th (and possibly one or two other variations) before B.S. Moss dubbed it Movieland in the late '70's. The former lobby space now houses the Roxy Delicatessen and the old auditorium (which housed a disco for a while) was demolished to make way for the W Hotel on 47th.

The UA Twin is listed here under its original name of Rivoli. Also, the RKO Warner is listed under its original name of Strand. I know that's confusing, as many theatres are listed here under their final names. However, the Rivoli and Strand were two of Broadway's most famous and influential theatres, and deserve being listed under their original names.

Here's a clip from the day of JFK's funeral in November of '63, while "The Cardinal" was in its reserved seat engagement at the DeMille:
Daily News 11/25/63

"It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" had only just recently opened at the Warner Cinerama (former Strand) across the Square and up the block on B'way.

My mistake in that last post. The ad for "The Cardinal" was to announce its upcoming engagement at the Demille on December 12, 1963. As the following clipping from the same edition of the News indicates, this Paul Newman-Joanne Woodward comedy was day and dating at the Demille and Coronet Theaters:
A New Kind of Love 11/25/63

warner twin was in the 70s as Cinerama and the 2nd theater was called the penthouse.......... never called cinerama 1&2..just fyi

Twin Two was called the Penthouse from 1968 to 1976, Cinerama ll from 1976-1982 and Warner ll after that. The Orleans was splintered off into porn ghetto oblivion when the name changed in 1976.

AlAlvarez is absolutely correct. My question: why did theatres start numbering their auditoriums instead of keeping their individual names? I can understand the AMC 25, but why drop the name "Penthouse"? Why name three differently located theatres with the name Embassy? The Embassy 2, 3, 4? Why not the DeMille 1, 2, 3? And the Embassy 5 for the Victoria was just silly.

Embassy was very intent on keeping its name before the public. It was their corporate name as well as the name of an individual theatre. The alternative would have been to call those theatres the Embassy DeMille 1,2,3 and the Embassy Victoria, which I guess they considered too cumbersome.

Thanks for the correction on the cinerama ........I was a manager at the warner twin in 1984 and the Orleans was open then .......I think it closed about 1985...

LIM if you were the manager at the Warner Twin could you tell us how much of the old Strand still existed. I always assume that if a theater was fit for cinerama in the 50's they just built a smaller theater within the larger. In your wanderings around the place did you still see much of the original structure? Had much of its history been preserved?

This discussion should probably be moved to the Strand page, but I imagine much of whatever remained of the original decor was hidden behind drapery, as happened to the Rivoli and Capitol during the roadshow era. I'd be interested in any recollections longislandmovies had on the old place.

As for the Embassy chain's presence in the Times Square area, let's not forget the Embassy 49th Street theater that lasted into the 80's.

Was not the Embassy 49th Street originally called The World Theatre where "Deep Throat" had a rather lengthy engagement? Then all of a sudden it was renamed the Embassy 49th Street and its first film attraction under the new name was a Disney movie?

DennisZ, you bring up an interesting point. I cant answer your question, but can throw another one at you. What was the name of the Times Square theatre that ran a double-feature of "Deep Throat" and "Devil and Ms Jones" for practically 10 years? It began sometime in the mid-70's and ran well into the 1980s. I would bet that this would be the longest-run engagement of all time in New York City.

You will find discussions on both those subjects elsewhere on this site but it looks like there were two Embassy 49's, and the Frisco was the DEEP THROAT/MISS JONES record holder.

Thanks, Al.

Before setting the World Theater back on the path of righteousness, Embassy ran the former Trans Lux West/Trans Lux 49th Street on Broadway (which also did some XXX time as the Pussycat and Grand Pussycat) under the name Embassy 49th Street. I think for some reason discussion of the Frisco can be found on the Rivoli Theater page.

This striking ad from March, 1935, neglects to mention the movie's now legendary director. At the time of the ad, owner Walter Reade had taken back the Mayfair from RKO Theatres and was operating it himself: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair335.jpg

McQueen and company day-and-dating the Demille and Coronet:
Great Escape - Daily News 5/18/64

Reade's Baronet is listed in the ad above "The Great Escape" in the clipping. I know Reade also operated the Little Neck and Continental theaters in Queens during this period... Were these 5 theaters the extent of the Walter Reade chain at the time? If not, what other theaters did they run?

Correction... the above image should be captioned "Daily News 9/21/63".

Ed, they had the 34th St East and, of course, the Baronet.

During founder Walter Reade's lifetime, most of the Reade theatres were in New Jersey. The few that he owned in NYC were usually leased to others. After Reade Senior died, Reade Junior began to concentrate on "art" theatres, especially first-runs in NYC, but the company still had the majority of its theatres in New Jersey, many with mainstream rather than "art" policies.

I'll bet that the other inmates in prison will be interested in learning about Walter Reade. Maybe you can become a teacher. That could make the time go faster.

Ed Solero asked about "the extent of the Walter Reade chain," so I answered him. If that is of no interest to you, "Lost Memory," perhaps you have joined the wrong website. Please go and pollute another website with your pathetic babblings.

I really do enjoy this website "Warren". The only pollution that I have found on this site comes from pathetic people like yourself. Haven't you ever heard of the Clean Air Act? Not to worry, I understand that some prisons have internet access. I hope that you are assigned to one of those.

Stop this, guys!

GWHIZ, should I take it as a compliment that you have adopted part of my e-mail address for your signature? Have you abandoned your previous "Lost Memory?" I believe that it's against the rules-and-regulations for members to use more than one signature at a time.

GWHIZ? I thought that I was Frankie. Your one good brain cell appears to be on its way out. Here is an offer that you can't refuse. You made an accusation claiming that Frankie and I are one in the same person. What is your source for that claim? If you can prove your claim, I will resign from this website. On the other hand, if I prove that I am not Frankie and I am in no way related to Frankie, you will leave this website for good. Lets see who really has credibility. Is it a deal? This offer WILL be repeated.

BTW....Say hello to your "Anonymous" email friend for me. What was their name again, Deep Throat? LMAO

Ed: The Ziegfeld was a Walter Reade theater too, for many years. It opened as a Reade theater in 1969 and I think it stayed that way into the early '80s when Cineplex Odeon took it over.

Thanks Bill. I remember the Ziegfeld having that distinctive Walter Reade font in movie ads from the '70's and early '80's (ditto the Little Carnegie and New Yorker Twin). I was just curious as to the origins of the Reade chain in NY, particularly during the '63-'64 time frame from which the clippings I posted came. Warren's response helped me out with that one. I'm also curious about the geographic territory. I know there were a number of Manhattan houses over the years (inlcuding the Waverly, later on, and one on W. 23rd Street) and a couple in Queens, but did Reade ever run any Brooklyn houses or theaters further out on Long Island?

The front of the Ziegfeld's marquee, which you could only really see from the other side of 54th St., said "THE ZIEGFELD A Walter Reade Theatre" for several years after it stopped being a Reade theatre. That part of the display is now covered up by a Clearview Cinemas sign.

Here's an ad from July, 1959 for the Russian equivalent of Cinerama:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/sovietmayfair.jpg
And here's an ad for the Columbia from October, 1927, roughly three years before the grand opening of its replacement, the Mayfair. The Columbia probably closed in 1929, but that's only a guess: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/columbia47.jpg

Thanks, Warren. That Kinopanorama ad is great.

And I have to wonder, how "beautiful" and "perfect" could the old Columbia have been if it was to be completely gutted just a couple of years later?! Does the Columbia have a page here? Or was it strictly a live performance venue?

Ed, I have yet to find evidence of the Columbia Theatre ever presenting anything but "live" burlesque, which was tame in comparison to the type pioneered by Minsky's with strip-tease performers.

"Thanks, Warren. That Kinopanorama ad is great." You should also take a look at the opening day ads. Initially, the Russians called the process "Kinorama." The Cinerama folks complained loudly, and the next day the process was renamed "Kinopanorama"

In May 1934 the Columbia was showing a move-over from the Mayfair of HITLER'S REIGN OF TERROR. Although it rarely showed films, they seems to have co-existed or there was another Columbia on 47th and Broadway.

???

Al. The Columbia discussed above was gutted to make way for the RKO Mayfair, so it must be a different theater altogether - particularly since you reference the film as a move-over FROM the Mayfair. Actually, it is probably the old Central Theater right across Duffy Square that you are talking about. It was later known as the Forum and closed as Movieland under B.S. Moss, but did operate for a time in 1934 as the Columbia.

The Columbia ceased to exist when it was replaced by the Mayfair. The 1934 Columbia was the ex-Central Theatre on the west side of Broadway at 47th Street. In that year, the owners re-named the Central the Columbia for a revival of burlesque, but they were shut down by the police. The theatre kept the name Columbia when it returned to films, but soon went back to Central. The original Columbia and the Mayfair were actually on Seventh Avenue, and not Broadway.

Thanks guys. That makes perfect sense.

I don't like to make a re-tread post, but here again is a 1963 ad for the upcoming reserved seat engagement of Otto Preminger's "The Cardinal" at the Demille:
Daily News 11/25/63

What I failed to note the first time I posted this ad is that "The Cardinal" represented a milestone in the history of theatrical presentation of motion pictures; it was the first 35mm production ever to have been presented in 70mm blow-up prints.

Here's a page on the wonderful Widescreen Museum site featuring a contemporary article heralding the new process.

AromaRama in 1959
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/PorgyBessatParamount.jpg

From the New York Daily News, September 1951:

An unusual ad for the Mayfair's next attraction:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/klaatu1.jpg

Kate Cameron's review. She sounds a little surprised to have enjoyed it - I guess science fiction didn't get much respect back then:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/klaatu2.jpg

In honor of Joseph Stefano, who died yesterday:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/stefano.jpg

Bill Huelbig--

A million thanks for the comic strip (and of "The Day the Earth Stood Still." When the strip appeared in the Daily News over the stretch of a week, I carefully clipped each one, and at the end imagined what the film would be like. A month or so later, the pic screened at my local RKO Dyker nabe, and I watched it with amazement.

I love the adjacent ads-- for "Captain Horatio Hornblower" at RCMH and "The People against O'Hara" at . . . Loew's State? Thanks for unreeling those newspaper spools from fifty-five years ago.

You're welcome, B.O. Bill. What a pleasure to be able to bring back a special memory to you, after all those Radio City and Roxy programs you've given to us.

Interesting thing about the "Psycho" review...it's a Paramount release. You would never know that from the Universal logo on cable and the video/DVD releases. Also, the reviewer said she wouldn't reveal the plot twist, then says Simon Oakland who throws light on the strange behavior of a dual personality.

I know, Don - she couldn't resist giving that away. Even worse is the "Psycho" review in Variety, posted below. The critic reveals practically everything that happens in the movie. Hitchcock must have been furious.

**************************

Psycho

Paramount. Director Alfred Hitchcock; Producer Alfred Hitchcock; Screenplay Joseph Stefano; Camera John L. Russell; Editor George Tomasini; Music Bernard Herrmann; Art Director Joseph Hurley, Robert Clatworthy. At DeMille Theatre, N.Y., June 16, 1960.

Norman Bates - Anthony Perkins
Marion Crane - Janet Leigh
Lila Crane - Vera Miles
Sam Loomis - John Gavin
Milton Arbogast - Martin Balsam
Sheriff Chambers - John McIntire
Dr. Richmond - Simon Oakland

Anyone listening hard enough, might almost hear Alfred Hitchcock saylng, "Believe this, kids, and I'll tell you another." The rejoinder from this corner: Believability doesn't matter; but do tell another.

Producer-director Hitchcock is up to his clavicle in whimsicality and apparently had the time of his life in putting together "Psycho." He's gotten in gore, in the form of a couple of graphically-depicted knife murders, a story that's far out in Freudian motivations, and now and then injects little amusing plot items that suggest the whole thing is not to be taken seriously.

The "Psycho" diagnosis, commercially, is this: an unusual, good entertainment, indelibly Hitchcock, and on the right kind of boxoffice beam. The campaign backing is fitting and potent. The edict against seating customers after opening curtain (as observed at New York's DeMille Theatre) if respected may add to the intrigue. All adds up to success.

Hitchcock uses the old plea that nobody give out the ending -- "It's the only one we have." This will be abided by bere, but it must be said that the central force throughout the feature is a mother who is a homicidal maniac. This is unusual because she happens to be physically defunct, has been for some years. But she lives on in the person of her son.

Anthony Perkins is the young man who doesn't get enough exorcise (repeat exorcise) of that other inner being. Among the victims are Janet Leigh, who walks away from an illicit love affair with John Gavin, taking with her a stolen $40,000, and Martin Balsam, as a private eye who winds up in the same swamp in which Leigh's body also is deposited.

John McIntire is the local sheriff with an unusual case on his hands, and Simon Oakland is the psychiatrist who recognizes that Perkins, while donning his mother's clothes, is not really a transvestite; he's just nuts. Vera Miles is the dead girl's sister whose investigation leads to the diagnosis of what ails Perkins.

Perkins gives a remarkably effective in-a-dream kind of performance as the possessed young man. Others play it straight, with equal competence.

Joseph Stefano's screenplay, from a novel by Robert Bloch, provides a strong foundation for Hitchcock's field day. And if the camera, under Hitchcock's direction, tends to over-emphasize a story point here and there, well, it's forgivable. Further, the audience's indulgence is not too strained with the inevitable appearance of Hitchcock himself. He limits himself to barely more than a frame.

Saul Bass' titles are full of his characteristic trickiness, Bernard Herrmann's music nicely plays counter-point with the pictorial action and editing seems right all the way.


1960: Nominations: Best Director, Supp. Actress (Janet Leigh), B&W Cinematography, B&W Art Direction

How on earth did this critic think he was "abiding" by Hitchcock's plea not to give away the ending??? He couldn't have spelled it out more clearly had he printed an actual copy of the shooting script!

Bill, you left out an important detail of the Variety review. Who wrote it? There should be a name at the end of it, but just a first name or nickname. Variety reviewers did not use their full names in those days. I'm curious, because I probably knew the reviewer, especially if he was on the NYC staff.

Warren: on the website it only says it was written by "Variety staff". But I have a xerox copy at home of the original review as it appeared in the paper, and the nickname should be listed there. I'll let you know tonight, in this space.

Speaking of Variety, there's a review of the new RKO Mayfair Theatre on page 46 of the November 5, 1930 issue. Among other things, the review claims that the conversion from the Columbia to the Mayfair took 131 days and cost $800,000: "Other than the walls, heavily bulwarked with accousticized plaster and gilt, the house is all new, and richly modern, in the best of refinement and taste. It's been stretched to the point where there are an additional 400 seats, the old burlesque place having but 1,600. The metamorphosis includes entire elimination of that stage and the runway where so many of the boys felt gah-gah when the girlies kicked heavy dust into faces peering keenly upward. This means something since the new job makes it impossible to put in a stage. The alleyway in the back where the burlesque girls used to meet some of boys and vice versa has been also eaten up in the elongation. New policy, without another word, means 100% pictures. There's but one balcony which sweeps back to the projection booth. The last few rows of seats, incidentally, are tilted at almost a precarious incline." The Variety review also claims that a camera crew from Radio Pictures filmed the entire building project from start to finish for a short subject that was shown on the Mayfair's opening night. I wonder if that film still exists? I imagine that it was probably shown on the entire RKO circuit as well.

Hmmm. Something to ask the Turner Classic Movies archivists perhaps?

I'm curious about the Variety description of the new Mayfair having eliminated the Columbia stage and the back alleyway... When I called the "for lease" number currently advertised on the Embassy 2, 3, 4 marquee not too long ago, the gentleman representing the owner described the building as still having a backstage area with dressing rooms and fly space, although he did mention that the stage had been "cut" at some point and would have to be extended to accomodate live shows. I posted about this conversation back on Nov. 1, 2005.

I'm just curious as to why this backstage space was preserved, if the former vaudeville house had been gutted to the bare walls and rebuilt for screen shows only. That is, assuming the information provided to me by the rental agent was accurate.

The Variety review of "Psycho" was written by "Gene".

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/gene.jpg

My favorite Variety critic from those years was "Tube". He wrote some very funny reviews for those beloved old Grade B sci-fi movies.

Thanks, Bill. There were two reporters at Variety with the first name "Gene," but only one that used it to sign reviews. When I discover which Gene reviewed "Psycho," I will comment further.

Crawfords last film opened at the Demille for Halloween 1970
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/Trog10-70.jpg

Thanks for that one, RobertR... particularly for the supporting feature. I'm a big fan of Hammer films and their Dracula series. This was the last of the original cycle of Christopher Lee films in that series which were all direct sequels to the 1958 "Horror of Dracula". Later that year, Lee was in the standalone "Scars of Dracula" which appeared in American theaters on a double bill with a sort of black-comedy bit of revisionism entitled "Horror of Frankenstien"... any ads in your stash for that twin bill?

Also looking for ads for Lee's last time in the cape, "Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride" which was released in late 1978 and was the film for which I was lured into the honky-tonk underworld of the Times Square and 42nd Street grind houses for the very first time.

I will check

EdSolero, I was in the theatre when it was being triplexed and remember the contractor being very proud of the dressing room facilities he had made for the strippers who were supposed to perform. The house also had a runway down the middle (shades of the Columbia -- everything old is new again!) When the city balked at having a porno triplex with a live show added to the plethora of porno operations already in existence at the time, the runway was removed and the theatre reverted to film. I remember standing on the stage trying to determine the maximum width of the screen image by looking at the projection port,and then walking left and right until it was blocked by the walls of the two upstairs theatres. As I recall, the stage wasn't very deep, but deep enough for the girls to come out and work the runway. I don't know whether the dressing rooms the contractor referred to were original, or whether he carved out an area for them backstage -- I suspect the latter.

Thanks for that info, REndres. I didn't realize that the owners had envisioned a porn triplex and strip club at the time! That would explain much, and you're suspicions as to the nature of the backstage facilities are probably correct. And still the theater sits vacant awaiting a lessee. I wonder if the owner is still willing to talk long-term lease, as the rental agent indicated to me a year ago. I would think this corner lot would have been gobbled up and demolished for some high rise. The entire block front on Seventh Ave from 47th to 48th would seem to me to be almost irresistible to developers. You'd think the owner would be salivating at the chance to sell and talking 1 or 2 year leases, tops! As long as he holds out, I suppose, hope still exists that this theater might once again see some viability.

Perhaps the office space on two sides of the building in addition to the shops on the ground level generate enough revenue to make the owner in no hurry to sell. Remember, they added shops in the lobby area that go all the way to the back wall of the auditorium when they triplexed the space. Perhaps those in the offices have long-term leases as well. When I worked there I was always curious about what was in the office space above the booth, since it sounded at times as if there were a bowling alley up there.
I had another thought about the amount of stage space that I had forgotten. I was in the theatre when it was the DeMille for "Shoes of the Fisherman" a 70mm roadshow. I went up to the booth, and noted that the lighting panel was up there, not backstage. In addition to the two Local #306 projectionists, there was a Local #1 stagehand to bring the lights up and down, and presumably open and close the house curtain (assuming there wasn't another stagehand doing it by hand backstage). That would indicate limited stage space backstage for a resistance type dimmer board. The only other theatre on Broadway that I can recall as having the same set-up with the light board in the booth was the Criterion. Even at Loew's State 1 after the twinning, the stagehand operated the lights and curtain from backstage.

If you look at Times Square as a whole, all the buildings from 42nd Street to 48th Street that border the Square. You will find just a few small pockets that have not changed. The last change was the closing and the soon tobe razed Howard Johnsons & former Globe Theatre facade. The only other property that's left is the Embassy Theatre & building and those small stores just to the north of the theatre @ 48th.. So maybe the owner is waiting for that last large offer. Since office space is renting at large rates for square footage these days. The 1600 building came down fast for condos and there are two project over on 8th Ave @ 45th & 46th that are in the works now. Also look at the building that once was at 42nd where that British Airway concorde ad use tobe at. (between Broadway & 7th)

NY Times November 1, 1930
By MORDAUNT HALL

"AMOS 'N' ANDY OPEN MAYFAIR THEATRE; Radio Team Cause Hilarity in "Check and Double Check" at R.-K.-O.'s New Cinema. FRESH AIR TAXI WOBBLES Screen Celebrities at Premiere in Lavish and Comfortable House --Hays Makes Address. The Millionaire Waiter. The Hunted Man.

With much of the pomp and glamour attendant at Hollywood's film first nights, Radio-Keith-Orpheum's new cinema theatre, the Mayfair, which stands on the site of the old Columbia, at Broadway and Forty-seventh Street, was opened last night to a gathering that included many motion-picture chieftains and their colleagues".

A Times article on October 22, 1930, preceded the one Lost Memory alludes to regarding the opening of the Mayfair. In the short blurb, it is revealed that the new theater would seat 2300 patrons and would be managed by Walter Reade. It also states that a policy of continuous performances would begin following the opening night festivities on October 31st.

The November 1 article by Mordaunt Hall - mostly a review of the Amos 'n' Andy film "Check and Double Check" - includes the following descriptive passage:

"It is a lavishly decorated, spacious theater with sparkling hangings, wonderfully comfortable seats, roomy aisles and an enormous proscenium arch. It has modernistic ideas in its architecture, with bronze, marble and sculptured plaster. Above the orchestra seats is a highly effective luminous dome. The auditorium, which includes the orchestra, loges and mezzanine, seats 2,300."

The article goes on to praise the "special thermostatic control" with theater ventilation, cooling and heating controled by a turn of an "electric switch." Further, "not a footfall could be heard on the thickly carpeted floor. The plush covered seats were very comfortable, and more than one tall man with long legs commented on the space in the cross aisles."

As for the presentation itself... After the opening speech from Will Hayes and some introductions, "the house was darkened, and while the Stars and Stripes floated on a huge screen, said to be 22 by 24 feet, a baritone singer rendered 'The Star Spangled Banner.' Then came amusing and interesting newsreel topics and, wonder of wonders, there was no further delay in bringing 'Check and Double Check' to the same giant screen."

Apologies for responding to an almost three-year-old comment, but in response to Richard Dziadzio's 3/12/04 post, I'd be happy to host your photos.

Just a note here..
I attended the November 26,1971 solo concert by Melanie at the DeMille Theater.. and still have the Peter Max print that was handed out to the first hundred people who came..

Since this theatre is long closed and had an inglorious history as the Embassy 2-3-4, couldn't the main entry be changed to the original of Mayfair Theatre, which, in its original condition, was one of Thomas W. Lamb's most impressive and influential projects?

Any chance there is of this theater opening?

A short article about the new Mayfair Theatre in a 1930 issue of Architecture & Building Magazine says that the proscenium opening was 84 feet wide and 54 feet high to accommodate all types of wide screen projection. Although the article doesn't mention it, I suspect that Thomas Lamb retained the original stage cavity of the Columbia Theatre but reduced its depth to nearly nothing to permit more rows of seats on the orchestra floor. Since the Mayfair was to be a cinema exclusively, there was no need for a stage. The article also says that the Mayfair's auditorium was designed fot have as perfect acoustics as "modern scientific knowledge could make it." There again, Lamb seems to have retained the orginal elliptical shape of the Columbia's auditorium, but built new walls and ceiling with modern, low relief decor that would not deflect or reflect sound waves. In the ceiling directly above the Mayfair's proscenium was an enormous egg-shaped dome with changing color effects. Here are four images from the article. The first link has two, showing the dome and the front porition of the auditorium's right side wall. The second link shows the loge and balcony. The third is of the lounge serving the loge and balcony. A staircase to the upper balcony seats can be seen at right.
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01a.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01b.jpg
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01c.jpg

Wow... I wonder if ANY of that ornamental detail survives behind false walls that might have been erected when the theater was triplexed! Was any of that stripped away in the '50's, when several deluxe houses on Broadway were "modernized" for the widescreen roadshow era? And what of the mezzanine lounge depicted in the third photo... did it survive the years? This is one of a handful of Times Square theaters that I never made it into... so I have no personal recollections to go by at all.

I am posting photos of the theater taken this month (January 2007). The view is facing north. I remember seeing movies in this theater in the early 1990s. Does anyone have photos of this theater from the early to mid-1990's?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60599307@N00/356694489/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60599307@N00/356694488/

Hi, Ed. I don't remember much about the ornamental detail, but there was a mezzanine lounge, though I don't recall that it was as elaborate as shown in the above picture.

The current entrance has looked like that since 1998, for going on nine years now. The only changes have been to businesses adjoining the entrance...All of the interior decor in the auditorium was gradually painted over in drab, flat colors over the decades, but reamined mostly intact. The upstairs seating was split down the middle, so the original side walls were left untouched except for painting.

P.S. The introduction needs to be changed. The architect is not "unknown." He was none less than Thomas W. Lamb. Perhaps also the main name of the theatre could be changed to the original one of Mayfair. Embassy 2,3,4 has been closed for going on nine years, and seems unlikely to be called that again if the theatre ever re-opens.

In this November 1930 view, the illuminated signs of the RKO Mayfair and B.F. Keith's Palace give a golden glow to Duffy Square:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/duffy1930.jpg

The RKO Mayfair had a second vertical sign that faced north on Seventh Avenue and could only be seen if you were heading south:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayvertical.jpg

A real stinker opened here in 1959, just in time for Christmas. You had to breathe it to believe it:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/demille59.jpg

Ha! "Scented movies are here to stay!" Hardly. One could probably count the number of "scented movies" released in the U.S. on a single hand. Last one I recall, was John Waters' campy "Polyester" in Odorama - a "process" that involved a simple scratch and sniff card with numerical cues flashed on the screen to tell the audience when to use the card.

The Mayfair's marquee and billboard can be seen in this November 1949 view of the funeral procession of beloved tapdancer Bill "Bojangles" Robinson. The Mayfair was showing MGM's "Intruder in the Dust," a critically-acclaimed adaptation of William Faulkner's novel about the attempted lynching of a black man in a small Southern town: www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/maydust.jpg

I can probably answer two questions here

# 1 (Did the contractor create new dressing rooms?)

I estimate that he refurbished the dressing rooms that existed there when I was the triplex manager in 1982. There were several dressing rooms backstage, badly dilapidated and storing junk, but ready to be refurbished.

# 3 (Does the ornamentation remain)

I consider that probably the original ornamentation remains. The balcony was boxded in to create two theatres upstairs, but the original side walls and ceiling were retained. This resulted in a very incoherent look, as the new front wall upstairs was bare boring sheetrock, and the side walls and ceiling were ornamental, with mouldings and chandeliers. The downstairs theatre was entirely original on all walls.

From 1997:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/hollywood90038/NYCEmbassy2341997.jpg

In the foreground of this 1954 photo, artist Patrick Hogan admires his work on the corner billboard of Brandt's Mayfair. The portrait of Burt Lancaster measured 43' by 38', and was reported to be the largest of its kind ever painted on that Duffy Square landmark:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/apache54.jpg

The last time I was in the Embassy Triplex was in early 1991, finally seeing Ghost because I figured I had to since it was a Best Picture nominee. The ouutstanding aspect of going to the theatre was that the house kitty jumped up on my lap and spent a good half hour asleep on my lap. I wish every theatre had cats to interact with the patrons.

Just wanted to mention in case some of you aren't aware that on the From Script To DVD website we have recently posted a historical reference list of Cinerama presentations in New York City. It includes entries for the Soviet 3-panel films that have been mentioned in a number of postings on this page.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/cinerama_nyc.htm

And don't forget we also have a companion list for Cinerama presentations in Los Angeles.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/cinerama_la.htm

In August, 1959, Brandt's Mayfair Theatre ended its association with the Russian wide-screen process Kinopanorama with a double-feature engagement of the two films that had been shown there individually--"Great Is My Country" and "The Enchanted Mirror." The entire program ran for about three and a half hours, with three complete shows daily. Admission was $1 until 5PM, and $1.50 thereafter. Children and servicemen could get in for 50 cents at any time.

I walked by the theater today and work was going on inside. I took a peek and saw that the main theater is still there in all its faded glory, but nothing a few million couldn't fix. I'll try and go back, this time with a camera. The work permit said non-load bearing walls were being taken down. Maybe the Shuberts bought the place and are converting it to legit use.

sounds like they could be gutting it.

Get those pictures!!!!!

A clerk at a store next door told me that the lobby space is being converted into another store, but I have no way of confirming that. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what develops. But I seriously doubt that it's being returned to the theatrical fold. The owners seem interested only in renting space until they can sell the parcel for demolition. Being on a corner, it is one of the most valuable still remaining in that part of the Broadway/Times Square district.

Warren, thats about what I posted back on Oct. 4th, 2006. Because it's the last large piece of Times Square left to build. Because if you look at the properties just to the north of the Embassy, it is just two story shops. And would be an easy demolition along with the Embassy property for a large building. Other than the Paramount Building and the building just south of the Palace Theatre. That's it for building in the Times Square borders. That does not count those two tiny holdouts TGF @46th St. and the small building next to the Virgin Mega Store. But because of the rent and the amount of money needed to restore the theatre to a industry type screening theatre and bring it all back up to codes, it was all about money.
If the owners really wanted it back up and running as a theatre the owners would have worked a deal. But they did not. Our company looked in to it back in 2003.

It's so sad to see that no one is interested in saving this old warhorse that's survived so long and is the last Times Square theater still in existence. Surely it could be converted to legit use?

Well the lobby is gutted to the brick walls and most of the marble is gone. All the seats have been removed from the main floor. And everything has been stripped away so you can see the area where the screen once stood in front.

It does not have a stage house. So it is very limited as to use as a Broadway house, for the size of the room. As a single screen movie theatre, the rent would make it unprofitable for the upgrades it needs. The owners know that the site can bring a large payoff if they raze the location for a building.

This theater was Loews Mayfair Theater when I worked there from 1940 to 1942. It was a beautiful theater with excellent sound. The balcony was not divided and had a special seating section in front that gave an excellentl view of the very large screen. The wonderful staff was like a big happy family complete with a mascot cat named Minnie that roamed the theater freely. All you contributers to this site have brought back fond memories. Thanks.

Rew, was this "special seating section in front" a separate section on the orchestra floor? Thanks.

Many of the staff from Loew's New York moved to the Mayfair when the much older house closed for demolition in 1935. I would imagine that some of them were still working at Loew's Mayfair during your tenure in 1940-42. By that time, the New York Theatre had been replaced by the second Criterion, which was also run by Loew's in those days.

The special seating section was at the front of the balcony, and probably designated as "Loge" or "Smoking Loge." Tickets were priced higher than general admission by about 25 to 50 cents, depending on time of day. The seats were plusher than normal, and there was more leg room between the rows. Most large theatres with balconies had loge sections at the front. They were SOP in those days.

Was the "enclosed" section under the balcony and used especially, I believe, for parents with babies, installed during the conversion to the DeMille in '59? Thanks

Jes! this fantastic site never ceases to amaze me. I was on a trip to NY recently and happened to have my camera with me and took 3 or 4 photos of the exterior of this theatre. The amazing thing is that in the 18yrs of visiting NY i always wondered what this theatre/cinema was. I thought id take a few pics and send them here. Low and behold i log on a few days ago and there she is!!! I had no idea as most people would have any idea what a fantastic palace lay behind such a sad and decrepid exterior. I will read with great enthusiasm as to what its future will hold. Does times Sq need yet another office block?

What happened to Empire 1 by the way???

veyyoung, the special section was like Warren said. It was a roped off section at the front of the balcony and designated "loge." The short stairways leading to the balcony ended at a small walkway extending the width of the balcony section which was up and toward the rear of the theater with the loge section down and toward the front of the theater toward the screen. The view was excellent from those loge seats and there were almost always usherettes on duty on both sides of that walkway. The loge section was available to anyone who wanted to pay the higher price. Incidentally there were two balcony access stairways, one on either side of the balcony. I sure hope that wonderful staff found suitable work after Loew's left. I guess some of the younger ones wound up in the army as I did. The theater as it was when I was there can be found at:

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/GuanoReturns/Manhattan%20Movie%20Theaters/Mayfair%20Theater%20aka%20Demille%20aka%20Embassy%202%203%204/?action=view¤t=MayfairTimesSquare.jpg

Ian Howells, this fantastic site amazes me too. Sure glad I found it.

Ian, I think that you mean Embassy 1. The first Embassy (still in use as a tourist information center) is on Broadway, just a few doors below the Palace Theatre. I don't recall that it was ever called Embassy 1. The three screens in the ex-DeMille were called Embassy 2, 3, 4 to differentiate them from the original Embassy. All four screens were under the same management at the time.

Cheers Warren! I know that one down the road -Times Sq Tourist Centre. Nicely kept little, come to think of it very little theatre there. Cant wait to walk past Embassy 2,3,4 next time im in town. It thrills me to think that theres such a sleeping giant behind that door. Lets pray its woken up gently pretty soon eh!

I wasn't referring to the loge section, but to a separate enclosed area under the balcony (as I recall on the right side of the auditorium facing the screen). It even included a multi-channel array of loudspeakers.

veyoung, at the time I was there, there was no enclosed section under the balcony that was used especially for women with babies. Maybe it was added later after I left, I don't know.

yes, that's what I thought. It was definitely operational during the DeMille period.

I have a short home video that I made on June 8, 1991, mostly of Times Square that has a lot of theaters now gone, a short section of 42nd Street showing a dark and boarded up Harris and Empire theaters and a short section of 8th with the Adonis and Eros. It's only 11 minutes long. I forgot all about it until I started looking thru my tapes of NYC. If anyone wants a copy, I'd be happy to send you one. This is NOT a big glossy Hollywood film...just a short home video. I can only send it on a dvd. If you want one, send your name and address to unisphere323@sbcglobal.net This is not a gimmick or a scam.

During the Walter Reade regime, the DeMille did have a "party room" on the ground floor of the auditorium. Please see my post above dated August 6th, 2004 (at 10:37 am) for more details.

Thanks, Warren

I'm sorry to report that they appear to be demolishing the interior to the brick walls. There were workers on scaffolds attacking the decorative plaster with hammers the other day.

There is no hope for this once grand theater.

That's what I saw back on the 15th of June.

Alas, they wouldn't let me in to take photos, but the guy there said they are suppose to be building a store in the auditorium (a CVS or Duane Reade no doubt)and two resturants upstairs.

It is a shame that decoration is being gutted! There are a few photos of the interior after triplexed at www.cinematour.org under Mayfair. Don't other people have additional interior photos other than the few linked above??

As to people who were thinking this theater could be a daily single screen movie theater again, that's not real world in the age where there's no more downtown exclusive! Thankfully, one movie premiere is taking place tonight at Radio City and the Ziegfeld continues (for the time being). People can hope that in the future maybe the Hollywood Theatre (by Lamb) will be available for film premieres/film classics/film festivals. With it rotunda lobby and gorgeous auditorium, built as a movie palace, it would be wonderful to see a film there (though the primary use could be legit theater if it is ever acquired from the church).

Most of the times with them saying you can't go into the location is, they are removing any historical elements from the theatre's design. Before anyone knows that it has been removed and the location can not be deemed a historical landmark by the city. From what I saw, they are going right to the brick walls in their gutting.

I meant www.cinematour.com

The marquee of the Embassy just south of the Palace did say Embassy 1 (as seen in my video) during the early 1990's.

The 11 minute home video that I am offering to anyone who wants a copy (see my above post) has grown to 1 hour 12 minutes since I've found additional home videos that I took during 1991, 1992, 1993, 1998. One additional video now included shows the World still in operation amd Movieland being torn down.

What a shame that the last movie palace located within Times Square is being dismantled. I was in this theatre a number of times on my vists to the Big Apple. Although, you could not compare this to the Rivoli, Capital, or Loew's State, it was still a movie palace. And to know it is being chopped up for another drug store and restaurants is just sad. I remember seeing the two part Russian version of "War and Peace" which was being released by the Walter Reade Company, which also operated the theatre at the time. The ushers wore "Russian" costumes. Also saw "The Shoes of the Fisherman" which was not an outstanding movie, but made better by the theatre I saw it in. Oh well, I guess we better get used to the shoeboxes of today. At least for some of us we have the memory of what moviegoing was truly like in the 1950's and 1960s!

The ex-Hollywood Theatre at 237 West 51st Street (just off Broadway), designed by Thomas W. Lamb, is still very much with us, though now known as the Times Square Church. The interior is a magnificent reminder of the great movie palaces, and can be visited whenever church services are held.

I understand that the Times Square Church is holding on to its lease there for dear life.

I went by the Embassy 2/3/4 on Saturday 6/23/07. I didnt really see any evidence of work going on. Construction or Destruction. Now maybe cause it was a Saturday and a street fair was going on right there- but it looked as I did when I went by months ago

I thought the TImes Squre Church was the old Mark Hellinger theatre??? Ive been in there and its just. oh my god -stunning!

I thought the TImes Squre Church was the old Mark Hellinger theatre??? Ive been in there and its just. oh my god -stunning!

I thought the TImes Squre Church was the old Mark Hellinger theatre??? Ive been in there and its just. oh my god -stunning!

Sorry my finger slipped!

Im sorry yea its the old Hollywood movie theatre that became the Mark Hellinger.

veyoung: You posted "I understand that the Times Square Church is holding on to it's lease there for dear life". They don't need to hold on to the lease. Because they have owned the building since around 1992 when Nederlander Organization sold it to them for $17 million dollars.

Can we start a fund right here and buy the bloody thing back!!!!!

Thanks, William, I didn't realize the building had been sold fifteen years ago.

The Times Square Church has taken Great care of the theatre. I lived next door to the church for the last 6 1/2 years. It won't be $17 million dollars anymore. The theatre is in Great shape. Nederlander made a big mistake in selling the house back then.

I strolled in there a few years back and the place was in stunning shape. I read on here its been well looked after and renovated again since i was there. Guys if youre in th e area dont walk past. Theres no body to stop you takeing a look. I wish i couldopen the PhotoBucket files for all those photos

Well there chipping away at more of the auditorium decor when I walked by at 7:30am today.

PICTURES!

Those upstairs theaters were horrible! First time I'd ever seen pics of those. What a sad state of affairs. Farewell, the Demille! :((((( None of the rich moneybags in the city were willing to save you.......Sad that such a big city has no Times Sq. movie house...(as a single unit and decent size)

All the Good ones got away. It's all about the money now. Large single screen theatres find it very hard to make money going up againist the multi screen complexes.

When was it not about the money? I seem to have missed that era.

They are still banging away and carting off the decor as of today.
And as a added bonus they have put a new banner over both sides of the marquee. That reads:

THIS THEATER LEASED BY WALTER & SAMUELS, INC.
David I. Berley WS Jud Eberson
Chairman Vice Chairman
419 Park Avenue, South, NYC 10016
www.walter-samuels.com

Looks like only the 3rd & 9th floors are availible for office space at $30.00 sq. foot.

Lovely. I wonder what they are doing with the decor? City dump?

"I wonder what they are doing with the decor? City dump?"
Speaking of which...anybody remember the huge vertical "Spartacus" sign that hung there during that film's run at the then-DeMille?. I recall seeing it later in a dump alongside the West Side Highway.

It would be really great for those of us who either no longer live in New York City or have never had the chance to visit this once-great theatre to see some pictures of what is currently happening. Thank you very much in advance.

I think it would be very difficult if not impossible to take interior photos without risk of life or limb. I'm sure that the workers have been warned to keep the public away, if only for safety reasons. It's a declared "hard hat" project.

Edward, when I worked in this beautiful theater it was the "Loews Mayfair," and was like a thing alive, teaming with people and a dedicated staff. A nightmare I once had of returning one day to the theater to see it empty and reduced to four walls and a gutted interior has become a reality. It's sad indeed but at least there are pictures available showing how it was, together with its history thanks to Warren and the many theater buffs contributing to this web site.

Did any newspaper bother to print that the last surviving Times Square theater is no more? I guess everyone has forgotten about it........SAD.

Again, it is sad that the Mayfair is being gutted. However, the efforts by many of you will not be wasted. Many thanks to Brucec for his above 8-6-04 list of movie palaces saved in downtowns of cities all over the US, and for his comments on Philadelphia's Boyd Theatre page http://cinematreasures.org/theater/1209/ I used his wonderful list in my Weekly Update email www.FriendsOfTheBoyd.org this past week, to illustrate how almost every American city has saved at least one downtown movie palace! the Boyd is downtown Philadelphia's sole surviving movie palace, and needs to be saved, restored, and reopened.

MAYFAIR THEATRE GOES DARK MARCH 1; R.K.O. Will Confine Broadway Activities to Palace as First-Run Movie House. HOUSE BUILT 3 YEARS AGO Was Leased for 20 Years to Film Company at About $300,000 Annually -- Owner May Sue.

NY Times February 20, 1933

The Mayfair Theatre, on the northeast corner of Seventh Avenue and Forty-seventh Street, will go dark on March 1. After that date the Radio-Keith-Orpheum Corporation, which has operated the theatre since its opening night on Nov. 1, 1930, will confine its Broadway film activities to the Palace Theatre on the south side of the street, the company, announced yesterday.

Here's a phot of the marquee with the phone number

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/hdtv267/IMG_0043.jpg

Recollections and Reflections.

40th Anniversay approaching next April when Walter Reade, Jr premiered Sergei Bondarchuk's masterwork WAR AND PEACE. The film
was exhibited in 1968 at the DeMille Theatre.

"Considering the magnitude of "War and Peace", having seen the 2-Part US edition several times during the 70mm-Stereo engagement at the former De Mille Theatre, 7th Ave and 47th St, NYC from April to October 1968, a hearty welcome for the original subtitled edition".
- CinemaCentre on Aug 8, 2007

If you saw the American version at the DeMille, then ...

the following is a must see event:
http://www.filmforum.org/films/warandpeace.html

This really is the end of an ear. And that balcony was so very, very steep.

They were jack hammering around inside of the tourist store just to the left of the theatre's front opening yesterday. More gutting to follow.

Back in June when demolition had just started, I walked through the entire building up to the projection booth. It had been triplexed with the balcony converted into 2 small theaters. The original booth still projected onto the main screen through a tunnel between the 2 balcony theaters.

There is still a lot of original ornamentation, but everything on the ceiling and proscenium is painted black. Quite surprisingly, there was one intact and un-touched column on the right side of the orchestra level with the original colors, and it was quite ornate. They appear to be gutting the building to the bare walls, so I don't know if that still survives.

The projection booth is quite high, about 5 levels up from the lobby. The theater originally had a lounge on the balcony level, and a smaller one on the upper balcony. The booth is one level up from there. There is no equipment, but the room was fairly large running the entire width of the building. There is a large bathroom with two windows looking out onto 7th Avenue, and the booth has more windows with that similar view.

There were quite a few small rooms near the lounge areas that I couldn't see because the lights weren't working. In the main areas where the workers are cleaning debris, they have strung work lights so it's pretty bright in there.

There was an interesting space that had been closed off directly above the lobby. You could walk around the top and see the people below as they entered the lobby. This space still had 3 or 4 very cool 30's-era light fixtures hanging from the ceiling, and there were working bulbs in it.

I'm sorry to say that I didn't have a camera. But while nobody bothered me as I walked around, they might have said something if I was taking pictures.

It is a rather sad end to what had once been a very grand theater.

Aarrgh...

Here's the first newspaper announcement of the new DeMille Theatre. The fine print at the bottom says "The DeMille is a Walter Reade Theatre...47th Street and 7th Avenue." The DeMille opened two days later, on December 7th, 1959, with "Behind The Great Wall" in the revolutionary AromaRama process ("You Must Breathe It To Believe It!"): www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/cecilb.jpg

Thanks, Warren. That was a very fitting tribute to Mr. DeMille, who died earlier that year on January 21st. I sure would've loved to have seen "Spartacus" in there ...

Regarding Bob's post of September 13, I hope there's photos somewhere of the 1930's era ceiling light fixtures and the original colors of the column!

I think Warren posted some shots of the theatre, some time ago that showed the balcony ceiling and afew other shots of the original theatre.

It seems like a distinctive possibility an electronics store might be moving into the former DeMille/Embassy, as well as the gutted retail space located next door to the left. According to an item in Steve Cuozzo's Realty Check column in yesterday's NY Post, sources in the Times Square area have identified Hersel Torkian, who has operated electronics stores and currently owns several properties in the area, as the leasee. (The Post piece does misidentify the DeMille/Embassy space as having been vacant for seven years; the theatre actually closed in late 1998.) Torkian did not return a call to the Post to confirm his status as the leasee - or, presumably as well, his plans for the space(s).

"Electronics store" in that part of town usually means one of those sleazy merchants that prey on tourists with fictitious pricing of goods that are often not even the latest models. I think that most New Yorkers are now smart enough to boycott them.

The idea of one of those sleazy electronic stores possibly moving into the DeMille/Embassy space makes my stomach churn, Warren. Gutting a classic, 98-plus year old cinema for something so useless is truly regrettable.

The problem has been no one was willing to pay the amount of rent the the landlord want for the property. So the theatre has sat for those years unused. Our company looked at it back in 2002 and it needed alot of work to make it work. The landlord was asking about a million a year in rent for it.

some exterior shots of the canopy taken nov 2007
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/2007785357/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/2007796849/
detail of exterior ornamental stonework
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/2007790725/
distance shot of whole building
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/2007803795/

no building work going on at the time

Since they took the banner off the marquee a few weeks ago. That marquee might be coming down soon. They put new steel roll down gates on the three store front areas and that old wooden door is useless now and they took the old store signage off those stores to the left and right of the marquee.

It's hard to believe that this was the same theatre for major world premieres!

Starting with the NYC premiere engagement of John Barrymore's "State's Attorney" in May, 1932, the RKO Mayfair adopted "New Low Summer Prices" as a "Daylight Saving Special." All seats from 9:30 AM opening to 2 PM were 35 cents, then 50 cents to 6 PM, 65 cents to 7 PM, 75 cents to 11 PM, and back to 50 cents until closing time.

I think I'm confused. Am I correct in thinking that the Embassy is on the North east corner of 47th, but the theater being used as a visitor's center is on the south side of 47th? If so what is the former theater being used as a visitor center? I am curious, as inside they told me it was the embassy, but either they, or I, may be mistaken.

Ok...I'm stupid. I figured it out, that it was the Embassy I. Sorry guys.

Here is a November 1947 ad from the NYT:
http://tinyurl.com/35p554

Thanks, Ken. What a classy ad (for a classy picture).

A good film. I always thought Peck's character was a little naive, even for 1947 ("Shocked! Shocked to find anti-Semites in Connecticut!).

How many people recognzed Dean Stockwell as the boy without reading the credits? I had a hunch but I had to peek.

Gentleman's Agreement was released on November 11, 1947.

Mr. Amnesiac, if you're using a Film Daily Year Book for your release information, you could be incorrect. November 11, 1947, is the date that the Film Daily reviewed "Gentlemen's Agreement," which doesn't necessarily mean that the movie was released that day. Trade papers usually ran their reviews in advance of release, to help exhibitors to decide whether they wanted to book the movie or not.

No "Mister Spelling Police". I'm not using a Film Daily Year Book for the information.

If I recall correctly, "Gentlemen's Agreement" wasn't generally released until 1948. It played only a few "special" engagments at the end of 1947 to qualify for that year's Academy Awards. That was SOP for "prestige" movies in those days, and it seems to have worked in the case of "Gentlemen's Agreement," which won the "Oscar" for best picture, and others for supporting actress Celeste Holm and director Elia Kazan.

I "wonder" why there's so much "rancor" over "nothing."

The reason is simple. Some people have nothing better to do with their time.

It is just bad information delivered with a bad attitude.

“Gentleman’s Agreement” opened on November 11 for a regular run, not just qualification as that deadline was still two months away and most major markets were showing it by then.

Based a best seller, the film was an immediate hit in major markets, a fact that delayed the neighborhood runs for several months at a time when hits were nurtured for long runs at top prices.

When the film finally won the Oscar nominations in March of 1948 it had already won most major awards and made most of its money with the Oscar creating a slight boost. Even after it won the Oscar, Fox kept the run limited. The wide release into small markets in the summer of 1948 was as expected, weak, and even the New York neighborhood run was a quick one week event at RKO with a second feature.

I have never heard of any exhibitor booking a film due to good reviews. In 1947 exhibitors booked them based on star power, box office potential and distributor affiliation. Exhibitors have always been businessmen first.

Does anyone know the latest with this theater? Back in October there were comments about a sleazy electronics store moving into the space, but there have been no postings about it since. I believe the For Rent sign was taken down from the theater many months ago. Any info would be appreciated.

I walked by last week as saw no apparent activity.

I want to say that that's probably good news!

Why did they go in and destroy what was left of the theater then?

Is that what happened?

That's what I read on here somewhere. They gutted the theater to it's foundations.......

That's painful to hear. That's too bad. It was one of the few remaining palaces that was still standing in a frozen semi ruined state. I think the only remaining hidden theater is The Liberty on 42nd St which is aparently cocooned somewhere under the Hilton and behind the Ripley's Museum. The Times Sqaure Theater will reeemerge shortly as a retail space.

LuisV, do you know who is in control of the Liberty?

"Gentlemen's Agreement" had the longest engagement in the history of the Mayfair Theatre up until that time, running six months and two weeks until finally being replaced by UA's "The Time of Your Life" in late May, 1948. The engagement was exclusive until nearly the end, when the movie also opened at the RKO Albee in downtown Brooklyn. The Mayfair continued to play it after the Albee, day-and-date with the top RKO neighborhood theatres in Manhattan, the Bronx, and Westchester (which had "Let's Love Again" as supporting feature). So, if you lived in the New York City area, you would not have seen "Gentlemen's Agreement" until May, 1948, unless you had traveled to the Mayfair to catch it.

Behind the wooden wall at the Embassy 2,3,4 they have put in a new retail glass doors and windows and replaced those odd shaped window to the left of the marquee with clear glass. They have been in there during the week and sometimes you can see in alittle.

So, "Gentlemen's Agreement" was playing at the Mayfair in November of 1947.

Here is a December 1931 ad from the NYT:
http://tinyurl.com/2g3v6l

Frankenstein was released in November of 1931.

Al, I do not know for sure who controls the Liberty theater space. It might be the Hilton Hotel or it might be the 42nd Street Development Corp. I'm going to do a little research and report back what I find out. What I do know is that it is sitting empty behind all of the 42nd St. retail spaces. Why couldn't ONE old palacae be restored back into a theater actually showing movies?

Well they have taken the front plexglass panel from the marquee off and they also have stripped the the interworking of it too. If you stand under it you can look straight up through it to the support beams.

New direct links to two images of the original Mayfair Theatre decor:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01b.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01c.jpg

The doors onto 7th were open today and the inside is a building site nearing completion into what could very well be a store!? From the other side of the street you can see building work in progress on the first floor also.

Thank you Warren. The pictures are beautiful. It's incredible what a steep rake the balcony had! I wonder how much detail is left. If the retail space does open soon, the alterations may only have been at the lower levels but I don't hold out much hope.

More views of portions of the auditorium ceiling and side walls: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair01a.jpg
This ad from March, 1935 fails to credit a director who would become a legend by the next decade: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair335.jpg

It would be nice if the main listing could be under the original name of Mayfair Theatre. Embassy 2,3,4 was an architectural desecration that's best forgotten.

The primary name above is supposed to be the last name that the theater was known as when it was operating as a theater. Is the policy going to be changed for each theater? I believe that one policy should apply to all theaters listed on this site.

Exceptions are sometimes made for truly important theatres. Thomas Lamb's work for the Mayfair was a major influence on cinemas that followed in the 1930s, which were more streamlined than the gaudy "palaces" of the 1920s.

The site has been quite inconsistent about this. Witness the Strand and the Nokia.

Well to go with my Mar 21st. post, they have removed the marquee from the building now. Just the A frame suports are left.

Here is another circa 1940 photo from skyscrapercity.com:
http://tinyurl.com/56oah2

I'm sure that someone will give a more exact date for the movie titles on the marquee.

I was actually looking at the FDR-Willkie reference on one of the marquees. That was the 1940 election, and they didn't start two years before like today. As I recall the usual campaign season was February to November, but the real campaigning didn't begin until the baseball season ended in early October. They figured that people didn't pay attention to politics until after the World Series.

That photo has already been displayed with explanation at CT (but not by me), either here or at the listings for the Palace and/or Embassy, which also are depicted.

I just walked through Times Square last night. Man, I wish I could have seen it back then!

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but here's a great color shot of the exterior circa February, 1955:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/BobFurmanek/Theaters/Underwater-1.jpg

Sorry about any duplication. I try to scan through what's been posted, but I do miss sometimes.

Its a nice photo, seeing it twice won't hurt anyone.

Behind these walls!
Amazing to think that such an incredible auditorium lies behind these walls that none seems to care about!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2390110382/
March 2008

Boarded up but with plenty of life behind them!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2390110382/

Sorry wrong pic posted above.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2389279449/

Close up detail. Left hand side of marquee.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2390114222/

Close up detail. Right hand side of marquee.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2389280541/

I'm curious about the "curtians" in the image codings. Did the writer perhaps intend "curtains," which would make more sense in this context?...The owner of the building must be earning tons of money from renting retail and exterior advertising space. I imagine that will continue until the owner receives a purchase offer that he can't refuse for the building, which will then be demolished for replacement by an office tower or hotel.

New direct links to two previously posted vintage images:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/duffy1930.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayvertical.jpg

Warren, thanks so much for the links above! The Marquees for The Palace an The Mayfair have to be among the most beautiful that I've ever seen. It must have been quite a sight to see them live way back when. What a shame that they no longer insist; especially since The Palace is still is fully functioning theater. They should replace that dull one they have with a replica just as the Hard Rock Cafe put in a replica of the old Paramount. I believe The Palace is a Nederlander theater. If so, they're notoriously cheap. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Is there an update on the fate of this theater? Did it reopen as retail?

They are still working on it.

LuisV, your comment on the marquee of the Mayfair reminded me of how it took a full time electrician to keep all the lights in the original huge wrap around marquee going. It seemed like someone was always working on it. It was beautiful and made an excellent shelter for the long line of people waiting to buy tickets on week ends.

The DeMille on 6/4/72, showing Buck and the Preacher, directed by and starring Sidney Poitier

Embassy 2-3-4, 5/7/81. Thief, The Postman Always Rings Twice, and Atlantic City are playing. The Cine I/II is also visible up the street.

Too bad that pesky bus is blocking the DeMille marquee. I see the Agee 1 & 2 next to the DeMille and I think I see the TransLux West on the left.

My mistake...the Cine 1& 2, formerly the Agee 1 & 2. By the way, those pix blow up super clear!

And if you page back a few pictures you see The State playing "The Godfather" and the Forum's marquee on another page.

The architect's credit in the introduction needs to be corrected. There should be a semi-colon between the names of Lamb and McElfatrick. The current comma creates the false impression that they were collaborators. But in truth, McElfatrick designed only the Columbia, and Lamb did the Mayfair.

Well they have installed the new marquee in front of the former theatre. It is the same shape and size as when it was the Embassy 2,3,4. It says New York Gifts, like we need another one of those types of stores.

This first became Loew's Mayfair on June 10th, 1935, when the theatre took over the long-time policy of Loew's New York, which was about to be demolished along with the rest of the original Olympia complex. The double-feature programs changed three times per week, but the frequency was later reduced to two changes a week or even a full week if business warranted. During the theatre's ten year stint as Loew's Mayfair, it was always treated as a sub-run house for the Broadway/Times Square area. The only Loew's first-run houses in that district were the Capitol and Loew's Criterion. Loew's State, where vaudeville was the main attraction, usually ran "move-overs" from other theatres on screen, but sometimes had a first-run film. Here's an opening ad for Loew's Mayfair: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfairasloew.jpg

Here is a photo of my grandmother (center) and her two friends when they were in nurses training at the Naval School in the Bronx. They're standing beside the Mayfair, which is showing "Gaslight". If I were to venture a guess I would believe this was taken in 1944.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/achangeinscenerymovies/2439037021/

It was taken in 1944. On the billboard behind you is a ad for Deanna Durbin and Gene Kelly in the film "Christmas Holiday" playing over at Loew's Criterion Theatre. "Christmas Holiday" opened June 6th, 1944 from Universal Pictures.

Monika, your grandmother and friends are actually standing across the street from Loew's Mayfair. Seventh Avenue is directly behind and dividing them from the theatre. Great to see that people are actually coming to CT with links to their "flickr" scrapbooks.

They have taken the wooden covering from the front of the former theatre, so you can see the new glass doors.

Hope someone can post some pics now the front has been revealed. Im not in NY for a few weeks but will take some then.

They started to let people into the store this morning.

I went into the newly opened store yesterday. You can see the former ceiling of the foyer area. There is are stairs that lead to something Sports which was closes at the time. But thats it so far. There's another small entrance to the right of the marquee which may go to the former theatre auditorium area.

So is the theatre still there???

I got some pictures on Saturday (5/24). I'll post up shortly. It was nice to be able to go in there again, it was disappointing to be in there and it another Broadway tourist souvinier crap-a-rama.

1955:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/davebazooka/1955.jpg


How the same site looks today...May 2008:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/davebazooka/2008.jpg

I visited the souvenir shop on Friday, 5/23/08. The store utilizes the ticket/entry lobby and maybe the rear of the auditorium. It appears that the auditorium is still intact as the store is not that large. Just inside the doors, the drop ceiling has been removed to expose the gothic arch windows and detail which can been seen from the exterior above the marquee. Although it as been painted blue, the architectural detail is still visible. There is also a staircase to the second floor just in side the entry doors. The second level was closed due to continuing painting, etc. but it looks like it should be open soon. I'll pop back in in a few weeks. The construction of the store didn't look like it affected the structure too greatly so there may be hope for a restoration of the old lady one day!

When I walked through the space earlier this year, the workers were on scaffolds going at the auditoriums decorative plaster with hammers. The scaffolds went up about 15-20 feet high on the south wall.

I'm not optimistic about any kind of restoration...

Had an experience at one of the upstairs auditoriums that I'd also had at the Elgin/Joyce.

While concentrating on the movie ("Fade to Black"), I was shaken when something brushed past me and leaped onto a seat. I was relieved when it turned out to be the (a) house cat. But we all know what that implied.

On the way out, I spoke for a couple of minutes with the young ticket taker about the cat. He confirmed what it was there for and said, in effect, the theater had a lot of rodents and pointed to places where they frequently made appearances.

Here's a view of the new monstrosity occupying part of the former entrance. Note how the triangular marquee has been tastefully retained. Another store under the "Grand Opening" sign is still under construction. No tenant has been announced for it: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/grandopening08.jpg

What a mess! I'm not sure I'd want Broadway to lose all of its honky-tonk quality, but that block cries out for some sort of gentrification, doesn't it? Visually, that's about as bad as it gets in terms of a neon/commercial nightmare. Behind it ... within it ... lurks a once-nice moviehouse.

The store under the "Grand Opening" sign (next to Tad's) has finally opened and sells costume jewelry. I suspect that it's under the same ownership as the NYC souvenir shop, since only a thin wall divides them. Please see my photo above posted on 6/1/08 at 1:30pm.

Man, that looks so cheap and tacky, even for Times Square standards!

So the theatre is intact inside with no entrance?

If what I saw a few months ago. The bare brick walls is whats left on the front left side of the screen in the auditorium.

I doubt if few beyond the owners know what still exists of the theatre itself.

The Demilles heydey
http://bp2.blogger.com/_IpFwFTEJH9A/Rdyxs7PJUKI/AAAAAAAAAJE/ZuqV8vX3awU/s1600-h/aapsycho10.jpg

RobertR, Great picture. I also liked the one you posted on the Loew's State board. Keep 'em coming!

RobertR, I'm really happy you posted that photo of Psycho at the DeMille. Notice on the right hand side the sign saying Toys/Souvenirs? It appears that sign is still there; appearing on Ian -'adoraKiaOra current photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtians/2389280541/

All these years it's been covered over. I wonder what else lays hidden at the DeMille?

Here are some more photos of the Toys/Souvenirs sign which was uncovered during construction:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60599307@N00/2829679668/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60599307@N00/2828842973/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60599307@N00/2828842935/

So went there today...Here are the pics of the entrance that llok great but I have suspision that the theater is behind the store because the ceiling seems very low. Also the 2nd floor is nothing not sure I will have to check out with the staff and see what they have to say.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10862573@N05/3045289946/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10862573@N05/3045289010/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10862573@N05/3044451475/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10862573@N05/3044450487/in/photostream/

Here's an ad from the long-defunct newspaper the New York Journal-American:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/magmen1.jpg

The date is August 11, 1965. Imagine two spectacular Todd-AO films from 20th Century-Fox within a couple of blocks of each other. And you could get "Choice Beatle Tickets" for only $10 - the 1st Shea Stadium concert was held on August 15th.

Thank you, Bill. Great page.

Here is a November 1949 photo from Life Magazine. The photo was taken during a funeral procession for Bill "Bojangles" Robinson.
http://tinyurl.com/5kqn98

Thanks to "misterboo" for the Life Magazine photo link.

Does anyone know what the Quartet Theater on the right is listed under? I didn't see it as an AKA. Is it possible that it was a live theater? Thanks.

A very similar photo was displayed at Cinema Treasures last spring by yours truly at either the listing for the Palace or Mayfair/DeMille/Embassy2-3-4, which also appear in the background.

Sorry about that, Warren. I tried to look at all the previous photos, but this is a pretty extensive list.

The Quartet Theatre is the Embassy Theatre. If you blow-up the picture you can see the word Embassy above Quartet's neon. You can't make out whats playing.

OK, thanks.

Actually, the name of the movie at the Embassy was "Quartet". It was a British film, a compilation of four short stories by W. Somerset Maugham. It was so successful, the filmmakers made a sequel of sorts a few years later called "Trio" (3 stories instead of 4).

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0040335/

I see. So it was the Embassy showing "Quartet". Thanks.

Both "Quartet" and "Trio" were shown on Turner Classic Movies on the same night, about a year ago.

It must have played there for a long time. Imdb gives a March 1949 release date for the NYC opening as does Film Daily. "The Dalton Gang" at the Palace has a Oct. 21st. 1949 date and "Intruder in the Dust" Nov. 22, 1949. Bill Robinson passed away Nov. 25th, 1949.

It's hard to make out, but under the title on the marquee it says "BRILLIANT" **** - News. It looks like the word WORLD is in there too.

This is a new link to the image that I posted last May. One must remember that Life Magazine, for much of its existence, was a weekly news pictorial, so many images were likely to be very similar to those in other magazines and newspapers. Though Life preferred to rely on its own staff photographers, it often had to purchase photos from agencies and/or freelancers. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/maydust.jpg

I've got some pics of the lobby somwhere...i'll see if I can find then. They are from May 2008 and i believe I got a decent panorama of the lobby ceiling. I'll see if I can post em. Too bad the chandelier is gone...

Coincidentally, that newspaper clipping posted by Bill on November 20 also has an ad for a burlesque show at a "Mayfair Theater" at 236 W. 46th Street; what theater is that?

And the photo posted by Warren on November 21 seems to show "Brandt's" name on the marquee above "Mayfair;" shouldn't that name be listed as an "Also known as" at the top of this page, as other postings have suggested?

In the movie clock for Radio City Music Hall on that 11/20 ad, "The Sandpiper" was listed as going on at 3:57 ... 9:53 ... right to the minute. I wonder if the Music Hall really got their shows off on time like that - they probably took great pride in it. I guess REndres would be able to answer that.

None of the other theaters in the movie clock had such exact time listings.

saps, I have seen that other Mayfair advertised before in the sixties, usually associated with Jewish programming. I suspect it was an auditorium on an upper floor.

I hope this isn't "unsolicited commercial content," but Swann Auction Galleries is offering the original design for the Psycho premiere sign at the De Mille from 1960. It doesn't seem to match the image I saw posted above, so it may have been for the lobby or perhaps it was a rejected design. It will be lot 223 in the March 26 Americana auction. If you're curious,
you can access an image at http://swanngalleries.rfcsystems.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2174+++++223+&refno=++613048&saletype= . Thanks.

The marquee of Loew's Mayfair can been in the background of this 1944 photo showing people sitting in Duffy Square. Abbott & Costello appear to be topping the bill at the Mayfair, but I can't make out the title of their movie. In any case, it would have been at least a second-run engagement for the midtown area: http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Times+Square+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTimes%2BSquare%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN&imgurl=f6cb0808a2d8fa5a

The tile of the picture is "Abbott and Costello In Society". Which was released in Aug 16, 1944 in NYC.

Thanks! "A&C In Society" opened August 16th at Loew's Criterion. It probably lingered there two or three weeks before hitting the Loew's circuit, where it was paired with UA's "Song of the Open Road" (Jane Powell's screen debut). That might have been the second feature at the Mayfair, which didn't always have the same couplings as the neighborhood Loew's theatres.

"Abbott & Costello In Society" & "Song of the Open Road" opened at Loew's Mayfair on October 6th, 1944, and ran for five days, so the Life Magazine photo had to be taken during that period. In those days, the Mayfair ran split weeks of programs from both the Loew's and RKO circuits. On October 11th, the Mayfair switched to "Marine Raiders" and "Youth Runs Wild" off the RKO circuit. Here's a Loew's circuit ad with "In Society" and "Open Road." Some of the other Loew's theatres listed with the Mayfair were presenting the double bill for longer runs:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mayfair44.jpg

Here's a nifty ad showing the entire Loew's Greater New York circuit on September 28, 1944, the day that the double bill of "In Society" & "Song of the Open Road" started its tour of theatres. At the time, Loew's Mayfair was showing "Step Lively" and "The Falcon in Mexico" off the RKO circuit. "Society" & "Road" reached the Mayfair on October 6th: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/losociety.jpg

In 1944, Esther Williams made a big splash in Times Square when her first starring movie, "Bathing Beauty," played its NYC premiere engagement at the Astor Theatre:
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Times+Square+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTimes%2BSquare%2Bsource:life%26start%3D100%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN&imgurl=64f0d7ead8714ced

Sorry! I meant that posting for the Astor Theatre listing! But the movie did eventually reach Loew's Mayfair.

I was walking by the 47 Street side of the building this afternoon. It looks like they are still banging away at the old theatre again. I saw workmen filling a truck with banged up plaster and stuff. They were coming out of the double set of black exit doors from the theatre.

The Mayfair's (later the DeMille's) walls must have abutted those of the Roxy, right, for as long as the Roxy survived?

No, Ed, the two theatres were blocks apart on Seventh Avenue, the Roxy at 50th Street and the Mayfair at 47th Street. The nearest theatres to the Roxy were the Winter Garden, which had its back entrance on the opposite side of Seventh Avenue, and the Earl Carroll, which was across from the Roxy on the east side of Seventh between 50th and 49th.

Mea culpa! I had a momentary memory lapse of geography there, Warren. I was thinking of the Taft Hotel, which now has a different name, probably being up against the Roxy's west side wall and possibly its north wall. Does that compute?

Yes, it was the Taft on the West side of the Roxy and I believe that it still has the Taft name today. The hallway that led to the main Roxy building went through the Taft Hotel and is currently, and sadly, occupied by a TGIF Fridays.

That truck is back again today.

The hotel is now called the Michaelangelo. I recently posted a link to its website at the CT listing for the Roxy Theatre.

Renewing link.

DeMille closed in 1974
http://americanclassicimages.com/Default.aspx?tabid=141&txtSearch=CATAdvancedSearch1%2c32%2c3%2c-1&catpageindex=118&ProductID=30971

The operation of the Mayfair Theatre switched from Loew's to the Brandt circuit in 1947. To receive an e-mail with more details, please contact Warrengwhiz@nyc.rr.com.

Renewing link

Here is a November 1951 ad from the New York Times:
http://tinyurl.com/psc2dg

Exterior photo here:
http://americanclassicimages.com/Default.aspx?tabid=141&txtSearch=embassy&catpageindex=4&ProductID=30988

Great old photo...thanks....

Love that DeMille shot posted above on April 17, 2009. Did it re-open in 1974 after renovations? When was it triplexed and turned into the Embassy 2-3-4?

An exceptionally GREAT photo of Times Square and theaters on 2 May 1937 with the dedication of statue of Father Duffy, heroic chaplin to the "Fighting 69th" Regiment during WW1:
http://www1.dailynewspix.com/sales/largeview.php?name=N1990284.jpg&id=23199&lbx=-1&return_page=searchResults.php&searchDisplay=A&numFields=1&Button=%3CSPAN%3ESearch%3C/SPAN%3E&start=-2713888800&end=16516799&dayFrom=1&monthFrom=1&yearFrom=1884&dayTo=10&monthTo=7&yearTo=1970&location_0=allmeta&bool_0=AND&Button=%3CSPAN%3ESearch%3C/SPAN%3E&page=0

Coutesy of Warren

Regarding the above photo, Warren notes "Great photo from May 1937 showing dedication of Father Duffy statue in Duffy Square near West 47th Street. In background are the Mayfair Theatre with original (and huge) marquee, RKO Palace, and Embassy Newsreel. The CT listing for the Mayfair is as Embassy 2,3,4"

Recent web posting on the history:

http://www.gothamlostandfound.com/

Scroll down a couple of articles.

The interior is used currently as a Famous Daves BBQ ribs restaurant

Re: The saps question above -- the theatre did reopen after the fire in 1974, but not as a Walter Reade house. It was a reduced fare theatre (I can't remember whether it was just a dollar or a little more.) One of the projectionists on the crew at Radio City was also involved with Local #306 and was a little disturbed when I commented to him that when I went there, there were people in the balcony. He said the agreement to operate with a reduced crew was that the house use only the orchestra level seating in order to get the reduced operating costs. It was probably about a year later that the decision was made to turn it into a porno multiplex with strippers working the runway in the orchestra. When the city objected it became a sub-run theatre operated by the Elson family.

The article in the gothamlostandfound column is wrong in one respect. A wall wasn't put down the center of the balcony -- TWO walls were put down the balcony to divide it into two houses on the left and right, with the space between them a pathway for the image from the center projector in the booth to hit the downstairs screen. This made for a limited width picture downstairs where the screen had been the width of the proscenium for 70mm presentation, but as designed it would have been used to only show 1.37 aspect ratio porn films in between the strippers' performances.

We had two plexes in Southern California area that were plexed that way, but the walls were alittle wider for regular aspect ratio films. California Theatre in Huntington Park and the Culver Theatre in Culver City.

Now I have to try some BBQ from Famous Daves and see the location.

Well I went to have some BBQ on Friday night at Famous Daves. There is really nothing left except for the top of the proscenium and a few coves and the domes along the ceiling area. They have installed four retro type light fixtures hanging from the proscenium and two light fixtures from the dome in the ceiling. (seen in pictures from Gotham Lost and Found site) The kitchen and a raised dining area over the kitchen now sits on stage. Now you can see that the stage was maybe 20 feet deep at most. The rest of the front of the orchestra seating of the theatre is dining and a bar. You can see the bare brick walls and their retro trendy bar look. The rest rooms are next to the kitchen to the right on stage.
The food and drinks were good but the former theatre is sad to look at.