bigjoe – the faded print the article references is the roadshow version.
vindanpar – The SP Blu-ray is reasonably clear in describing it contains two versions and it does not claim to have “restored the roadshow version”:
The 157 minute “theatrical version” (should probably have said “general release version”, but “theatrical” is also accurate since the GR version is the one most people saw theatrically).
The 172 minute “roadshow version” (in the text Special Features listing they say “extended road show version” but they obviously meant “extended from the 157 minute version”). The grid below correctly states “172 minutes (Roadshow version)”
Nowhere on the package (at least the one I have from 2008) does it state anything that should make you say this: “Fox makes you think you are getting”.
If you want to more about Blu-ray’s, you might want to join us at the HomeTheaterForum.com
There is no such thing as a “245 minute version” of South Pacific.
The main feature on the South Pacific Blu-ray is the Fox FotoKem restoration of the general release version, running 2:37, from the original 65mm ToddAO elements as discussed in your link. It looks incredible on the disc, one of the half-dozen best that I have. The ‘roadshow version’ runs 2:52 and is presented as a bonus feature; to reconstruct it, they took the master of the restored general release version and cut in the missing scenes from that faded print mentioned in the article. Some of the reconstructed scenes look good, others less so.
Ice Station Zebra was shot in SuperPanavision 65mm for presentation in Cinerama. The current HD release reflects the full 2.20:1 aspect ratio – the Cinerama theatrical version would most likely have been cropped on the top and bottom.
People are slobs and it takes longer to clean out an auditorium of the trash. Plus, multiplexes need to arrange start and stop times so that they don’t have 4 shows breaking at the same time.
I hope so, the place has been an utter disaster the past few years, to the point where we could not find three seats together last time we went because so many were broken. Not to mention the terrible auditorium lighting (blue & orange aisle lights shining up on the screen), lack of staff (could have walked in without paying), and general unclean facility.
The Twilight Time Blu-ray of Judgment at Nuremberg is uncut and contains the roadshow elements. The Kino re-release is the same uncut version, but missing the Roadshow elements.
Yes, the IMAX version of mission Impossible Fallout had the changing aspect ratios; IIRC, it’s during only two sequences: the HALO jump and the helicopter chase/cliff fight.
I believe the Nolan Dark Knight films, Dunkirk, and few others have changing aspect ratios on their Blu-ray & 4K releases, mimicking the IMAX versions.
Bigjoe – For the VHS and LaserDisc releases of Grimm the source they used was the 35mm ‘scope reduction of the Cinerama version that was created for the general release after the Roadshow. It’s cropped on the sides and the panel mis-matching and join lines are pretty visible. That version airs on TCM from time to time.
Yes, they did but based on what I know of HTWWW, it did not require the amount of restoration work that Grimm would. Grimm’s original negatives suffer from water damage and a host of other problems. HTWWW has also been a perennial best seller on video, even prior to the restoration. Grimm…wasn’t.
“I hope someone with indepth technical know how can answer a question. if the Dome was able to find a print of Grimm good enough to show a few years back why isn’t it good enough to use for mastering for a Blu-ray disc?”
BigJoe – Using a theatrical print would probably not yield a very pretty image. The contrast from the dye-transfer print would obscure shadow detail and it wouldn’t be as sharp as going back to the original elements. Other video labels might do it if there were no other option – though the expense of making three transfers and then attempting to color correct and clean up the join lines might make it prohibitively expensive for something that can’t sell more than a couple of thousand copies. Warner’s studio policy regarding restorations means they wouldn’t do it that way.
The new “unrestored” 70mm prints are from an IP made in 1999 and are not good at all – baked-in dirt, negative tears, faded color, scratches, etc. The new 4K DCP (and the IMAX derivative) is from a new cleaned-up scan of the original film elements; it is stunning and is the current definitive version of 2001 for large screens.
The only transfer of Hawaii that exists in HD is of the general release version, MGM has not restored or transferred the Roadshow version in HD. Twilight Time does not do transfers or restorations, they release the masters that the studios supply them with. MGM needs to step up and properly restore it.
RogerA – the new 35mm print of “2001” that I ran back in 2004 was pillarboxed on the sides to preserve the 2.20:1 aspect ratio. The current 2K DCP of “2001” is also pillarboxed, presumably the new 4K will do the same.
Howard – unfortunately there were already a few minor projection scratches visible on the print at the show I saw on Saturday. Thin black tramlines on the extreme right side that should not be there on what would have been the 6th or 7th running of the print (hell, they shouldn’t be there even after the 100th running of the print). Plus some dirt/lint near the reel changes and visible splicing tape.
Howard – 70mm used to have five backstage speakers: Left, Left/Center, Center, Center/Right, and Right. The mixers eventually used those channels on the prints for subwoofers, so many theatres took them out.
bigjoe – www.hometheaterforum.com
bigjoe – the faded print the article references is the roadshow version.
vindanpar – The SP Blu-ray is reasonably clear in describing it contains two versions and it does not claim to have “restored the roadshow version”:
The 157 minute “theatrical version” (should probably have said “general release version”, but “theatrical” is also accurate since the GR version is the one most people saw theatrically).
The 172 minute “roadshow version” (in the text Special Features listing they say “extended road show version” but they obviously meant “extended from the 157 minute version”). The grid below correctly states “172 minutes (Roadshow version)”
Nowhere on the package (at least the one I have from 2008) does it state anything that should make you say this: “Fox makes you think you are getting”.
If you want to more about Blu-ray’s, you might want to join us at the HomeTheaterForum.com
There is no such thing as a “245 minute version” of South Pacific.
The main feature on the South Pacific Blu-ray is the Fox FotoKem restoration of the general release version, running 2:37, from the original 65mm ToddAO elements as discussed in your link. It looks incredible on the disc, one of the half-dozen best that I have. The ‘roadshow version’ runs 2:52 and is presented as a bonus feature; to reconstruct it, they took the master of the restored general release version and cut in the missing scenes from that faded print mentioned in the article. Some of the reconstructed scenes look good, others less so.
Ice Station Zebra was shot in SuperPanavision 65mm for presentation in Cinerama. The current HD release reflects the full 2.20:1 aspect ratio – the Cinerama theatrical version would most likely have been cropped on the top and bottom.
People are slobs and it takes longer to clean out an auditorium of the trash. Plus, multiplexes need to arrange start and stop times so that they don’t have 4 shows breaking at the same time.
I hope so, the place has been an utter disaster the past few years, to the point where we could not find three seats together last time we went because so many were broken. Not to mention the terrible auditorium lighting (blue & orange aisle lights shining up on the screen), lack of staff (could have walked in without paying), and general unclean facility.
The Twilight Time Blu-ray of Judgment at Nuremberg is uncut and contains the roadshow elements. The Kino re-release is the same uncut version, but missing the Roadshow elements.
Shot twice – IIRC, they would do the setup for the Todd-AO first, then do the CinemaScope take after.
Yes, the IMAX version of mission Impossible Fallout had the changing aspect ratios; IIRC, it’s during only two sequences: the HALO jump and the helicopter chase/cliff fight.
I believe the Nolan Dark Knight films, Dunkirk, and few others have changing aspect ratios on their Blu-ray & 4K releases, mimicking the IMAX versions.
That Stanley Warner Triplex in that ad is the Route 4 theatre, not the Century Route 17 twin.
DEFG: thank you for the kind words – the 10 ½ years I spent doing those shows at the Lafayette were very rewarding.
Bigjoe – For the VHS and LaserDisc releases of Grimm the source they used was the 35mm ‘scope reduction of the Cinerama version that was created for the general release after the Roadshow. It’s cropped on the sides and the panel mis-matching and join lines are pretty visible. That version airs on TCM from time to time.
Yes, they did but based on what I know of HTWWW, it did not require the amount of restoration work that Grimm would. Grimm’s original negatives suffer from water damage and a host of other problems. HTWWW has also been a perennial best seller on video, even prior to the restoration. Grimm…wasn’t.
Moviebuff – if “what” is projected properly?
“I hope someone with indepth technical know how can answer a question. if the Dome was able to find a print of Grimm good enough to show a few years back why isn’t it good enough to use for mastering for a Blu-ray disc?”
BigJoe – Using a theatrical print would probably not yield a very pretty image. The contrast from the dye-transfer print would obscure shadow detail and it wouldn’t be as sharp as going back to the original elements. Other video labels might do it if there were no other option – though the expense of making three transfers and then attempting to color correct and clean up the join lines might make it prohibitively expensive for something that can’t sell more than a couple of thousand copies. Warner’s studio policy regarding restorations means they wouldn’t do it that way.
The new “unrestored” 70mm prints are from an IP made in 1999 and are not good at all – baked-in dirt, negative tears, faded color, scratches, etc. The new 4K DCP (and the IMAX derivative) is from a new cleaned-up scan of the original film elements; it is stunning and is the current definitive version of 2001 for large screens.
The only transfer of Hawaii that exists in HD is of the general release version, MGM has not restored or transferred the Roadshow version in HD. Twilight Time does not do transfers or restorations, they release the masters that the studios supply them with. MGM needs to step up and properly restore it.
RogerA – the new 35mm print of “2001” that I ran back in 2004 was pillarboxed on the sides to preserve the 2.20:1 aspect ratio. The current 2K DCP of “2001” is also pillarboxed, presumably the new 4K will do the same.
I count the ceiling titles to get an approximate measure of screen width, the tiles are 2 feet wide.
“This coming November will mark 55 years since it’s opening…it was ahead of its time and it predated Omnimax!!!
The screen wasn’t a dome like Omnimax, ‘Dome’ refers to the building’s shape.
Howard – unfortunately there were already a few minor projection scratches visible on the print at the show I saw on Saturday. Thin black tramlines on the extreme right side that should not be there on what would have been the 6th or 7th running of the print (hell, they shouldn’t be there even after the 100th running of the print). Plus some dirt/lint near the reel changes and visible splicing tape.
There are projection and print issues with 2001 at the Village East, and I think a $20 ticket is a bit much, but it’s still worth seeing.
“if Snyder didn’t finish directing the film how can there be a Zack Snyder cut?”
There isn’t one. At best, there’s a rough cut of his version with unfinished special effects.
Howard – 70mm used to have five backstage speakers: Left, Left/Center, Center, Center/Right, and Right. The mixers eventually used those channels on the prints for subwoofers, so many theatres took them out.
Bigjoe – a major studio like WB is unlikely to use a damaged collector’s print.
The RCMH and the Roxy did humongous business:
https://immortalephemera.com/58216/king-kong-1933/