Luis, thanks so much for informing us of Time Out New York’s very deserving designation. As a frequent patron of this theater, I can easily verify that the designation is definitely deserved. I hope you – and many other viewers – will soon visit this place and share the wonderful experience that the Kew Gardens provides.
Bway, I think this place was situated on Havemeyer St., probably between South 1st and 2nd. Havemeyer was the main drag in this part of town and this was just a part of it. The fact that this was a market just underscores the commercial, non-cinematic, nature of this portion of Havemeyer St.
The old Nassau was situated about one block to the north on the block of Grand St. situated between Havemeyer and Marcy Ave.
My wife and I saw a play here earlier today. The theater is in wonderful shape and is a great place to see either a play or a movie. Due to the recent renovation, the capacity has been reduced to 650. The additional legroom provided was especially appreciated by this long limbed person.
Although the American premiere of the Potemkin was clearly a notable – even an historic – event, I agree that this lone cinematic experience provides a pretty thin justification for the inclusion of this theater on this site. Still, since this was an event that should clearly be noted – and even celebrated – in CT, unless some separate recognition can be provided, I would keep it in.
I just checked the City Planning Commission’s web page and saw that, at its February 22 review meeting, it decided to schedule the Ridgewood’s landmarks designation for a vote. This action should probably occur rather soon. Given the lack of any emerging opposition, a positive vote is clearly expected.
Then it’s off to the City Council, and another probable approval.
Glad to provide news of these very positive developments.
Attached is the 1951 picture of the Towne that JF referred to in the previous comment. It was the subject of some recent discussion on the Tivoli Theatre page where I, for one, initially mistakenly identified it as the Tivoli. But it is definitely the Towne.
This photo provides a snapshot of a brief era that occurred after the Fulton St. el had been razed but before this whole community was demolished and converted into the extremely banal Brooklyn Civic Center, as best typified by the uniquely ugly Supreme Court building.
The Towne was also situated in the immediate vicinity of the old, and long forgotten, Brooklyn Eagle Building.
Having taken an even closer look at the map, I saw that it specifically identifies the Tivoli and shows it backing up on Adams St., the street one block east of Washington, with – as JF noted – one entrance on Myrtle Ave. The main, Fulton St. entrance was probably just below – or to the north – of the map. It was probably situated right across from Borough Hall and below the old el’s Borough Hall station.
Kevin Walsh of Forgotten NY has just produced a map of this area that does validate Warren’s point. I have linked it, whith appears at the beginning of Kevin’s excellent survey of Myrtle Ave., at the bottom of this post.
In the photograph, the Tivoli would be just out of sight to the left. Since it was taken north of the Myrtle Ave. intersection, the street immediately in front of the photographer is, in fact, Washington St. Fulton literally crosses diagonally from southeast to northwest in the foreground. Given these facts, the theater appearing in the picture is on Washington St., and the Towne Theater is the only possible choice.
My error involved not realizing how near the Myrtle/Fulton intersection was to Borough Hall. But the map really clears things up.
Thanks so much Bway for providing this valuable information.
The aerial shot is fascinating, since the Metro must of had one of the longest and narrowest lobbies that I have ever seen. It is entirely possible that whatever currently exists in the old lobby is not associated with the church at all, though it could also be used for auxiliary church space and provide a way to the fire exit.
Another thought that just struck me is that while Williamsburg may no longer host any movie theaters, it sure serves as the home of a ton of churches!
Peter, I don’t think the date of the picture is necessarily wrong. Not much time lapsed between July 1977 and March 1978 – and such actions as the movement of a large congregation to another location usually do not occur immediately. Perhaps the management of the Gates did not, at first, believe that the closure was permanent and possibly planned for a timely reopening. Or maybe they first offered the property to several other movie theater management companies – a move that would have caused the least disruption. At the church’s end, perhaps their lease with the owners of the Bushwick would not end until sometime in 1978, and they did not want to risk the penalties of breaking it.
Beyond all this, the negotiation involved in leasing – or perhaps even purchasing – the old Gates would have absorbed more than a nominal amount of time. This was a big deal for all concerned parties – and big deals take time.
Thus, the fact that the Pilgrim Church was still operating out of the old RKO Bushwick in March 1978 is not at all surprising.
Not sure. But since the Gates closed in 1977, my guess is that the church left the Bushwick and moved into its new home pretty soon thereafter. So, this may have been one of the last pictures of the Bushwick to be shot before its long-term abandonment.
I just noticed the message on the facade. This picture was snapped during the brief period when the old Bushwick hosted the Pilgrim Baptist Church. i.e., before it moved to the old Loews Gates. This was, in fact, a very brief sliver of time.
What a great shot. I still can’t believe that such a major theater existed in what is now a gas station!
Since the Republic was showing Citizen Kane on this occasion, this shot must have been taken in the warm months of 1941.
Finally, when you link to the photo, by all means take a look at the lower numbered pictures. Most of them are pin-up shots featuring RKO’s young starlets. They are really hot. (The higher numbered photos mostly depict more formal pictures of RKO’s principal stars, including Leslie Howard, Kate Hepburn and Edna May Oliver. They are also very interesting, albeit less provacative.)
In a set of photos regarding the old Republic Theater in Williamsburg, I found this great shot of the Bushwick, which I do not believe appears on this page,
As a lark, I visited the nine other sites named Idle Hour. They were scattered throughout the USA – with one showing up in Toronto. All of them began operations in the early years of the last century, and only one of them, situated in rural Virginia, is still operating. This theater is actually the successor of the original Idle Hour, which was a wooden structure that opened in 1912. They say that Tom Mix and his horse once paid a visit to the old theater.
I attached the CT page of the last existing Idle Hour below. I hope you find it interesting. Enjoy.
I just discovered this page and have enjoyed reading about the management’s efforts to keep the place running. Keep up the good work.
I came across this page while searching for another Idle Hour Theatre in the Queens section of NYC. At the time, I thought no other theater would have so distinct a name. But, low and behold, fully ten Idle Hour Theaters were identified. All of them had their origin early in the last century – and this is the only one that is still operating.
Thanks for keeping the old name and best of luck in the future.
By the way, where exactly is Belle Haven in Virginia?
I was able to walk by the Ridgewood earlier today. Nothing has changed, and no one was available to discuss matters, though one of the interior doors remains open.
While the City Planning Commission has yet to schedule a public hearing on the Ridgewood’s landmark designation, this should occur soon, since its review is time limited. Hopefully, something will occur soon on both the designation and redevepment fronts.
I was able to visit this site today and can report the following.
The old Metro still exists and is now included within a church named the Iglasia Chrismatica Espiritu De Hermandad. While no reference to the church appears on the old – and narrow – Grand St. entrance, it is clearly depicted on the South 1st St. side of the building, which serves as the church’s current entrance. Given the fact that the building lot only references one street number on Grand St. but several on South 1st St., this makes sense, since most of the old theater proper abutted South 1st. (It is possible that the Grand St. portion of the building, which was the old lobby, hosts another use, though it is probably an auxiliary exit for the church. It is, in any event, painted in the same color scheme as is the church)
As noted above, the 194 Grand St. entrance is quite narrow and is flanked by two older buildings. (The latter were probably constructed when the previous theater was built.) It is a two story brick building with either an office or an apartment situated on the upper level. Unless you were informed of its previous use, you would never know that this was once a movie house.
So, I hope that I have filled in a gap here. Now, can anyone tell anything about the old Grand Opera House?
Thanks, site manager, for making the change that I suggested.
I took advantage of my day off to visit this location. Instead of an MTA office building, the old Melba site is included in a portion of a large – and extremely ugly – parking garage that extends all the way west to Bond St. The garage is situated on the upper three or four floors of this building. Several not very upscale retail stores – pretentiously called Livingston Shoppes – are situated at street level.
The reference in the introduction to an MTA office building probably refers to the mistaken Bourum Pl. site, since such a building has been constructed there. This also needs to be corrected.
I was able to visit this sight earlier today. Based on what I saw, I will qualify – but not change – the conclusion that I made in my recent comment that the picture recently provided by Warren and J.F. Lundy depicts the Tivoli.
As a first point, I was wrong in stating that Washington St. was situated somewhat to the east of the picture. In fact, the photographer probably took the shot at the very end – or was it the beginning – of this street. Since, however, Washington St. was laid out in a straight north-south direction directly aimed at – but never reaching – Borough Hall, it did not come in at an angle. On the other hand, this is exactly the course that Fulton St. took in the photograph, as it passed by Borough Hall and began its approach to Fulton Ferry. Thus, the picture depicts the Tivoli on Fulton St., just north of the end of Washington St., which ended its run at the Fulton st. intersection.
I know that it is difficult to recreate things that no longer exist, but I think I have gotten this right.
While, as clearly demonstrated by the previous picture, the Gates did show porn movies – at least in the late 1960’s – I do not believe it ever became an exclusively adult theater for any extended period of time. In fact, at least two of the previous comments reference viewing mainstream films during the 1970’s. My guess is that porn was shown here on occasional dates but was never the dominant genre presented – if you call porn a genre.
While the movie theater’s “desertion” of the community in 1977 was certainly regrettable, having experienced first hand the dreadful looting and fires that followed the July 13 blackout, I can certainly understand why this occurred.
The Pilgrim Chuech – and its charismatic principal pastor, Roy Brown, has become a very substantial presence in Bushwick. One of their satellite churches, in fact, is situated in the former home of 14 Holy Martyr’s Catholic Church. It is also maintained beautifully.
A very interesting thread on a very old theater. Wherever the Idle Hour was situared, and Ed Selero’s 7/12/07 post makes a compelling case, the theater’s zip code is definitely 11101, and this should be added to the introduction. If a comment by Warren in another LIC theater page had not mentioned the Idle Hour, I would never have come across this page.
One other point. I was struck by the Idle Hour’s quaint title and assumed that it would be about the only so named theater when I conducted the search. But fully 10 Idle Hour’s came up. So I guess this was a more popular name than I thought, in a very different era.
Very interesting page. However, the introduction’s claim that the Melba was situated at the corner of Livingston and Boerum Place is just wrong – and is correctly contradicted by the theater’s placement on the map. As Warren’s last link indicates, the Melba was situated at the intersection of Livingston and Hanover Place. The latter is a one block thoroughfare situated just to the east of Bond Street. Boerun Place and the new MTA building, on the other hand, are situated several blocks to the west.
While the old Melba was situated in what is only now considered the Boerum Hill community – this is very different than Boerum Place, which is an extension of Adams St. in downtown Brooklyn.
I actually once visited this place during its church years. I friend was trying to convert me – alas to no avail. While I was not into old movie theaters at the time, the place seemed quite impressive – and the Brooklyn Tabernacle people presented a pretty good show. They have a GREAT chorus. So the old theater was crtainly used to great avail.
If the location depicted on the map is correct, this theater was situated in an industrial area that was largely cut off from residential neighborhoods of any size. (DUMBO was, at that time, not even an elephant, not to mention today’s trendy neighborhood.) This not only provides a good reason for its early demise but also raises the question of how a movie house could have been established here in the first place.
Is it possible that the address is wrong – or that the street numberings on Washington St. – which was largely replaced by Cadman Plaza East in the early 1960’s – have been changed? Certainly, a location a few blocks to the north would make a lot more sense.
I just discovered this page and what an absolute delight it is. It really is fascinating to revisit a part of Brooklyn that no longer exists. Wonderful pictures, at least for those links that still work.
In taking a closer look at the picture initially posted on 6/11/08 and my Hagstrom’s map, I believe it does, in fact, identify the Tivoli in its post-el days. For one thing, Washington St. occupied the roadbed of what is now Cadman Plaza East. (A small remnant of that street remains near the waterfront and flows directly into CPE.) Now, CPE approaches the Borough Hall area about a block east of what is included in the picture. (It abuts the western end of the old Post Office building.) The picture, on the other hand, depicts Fulton St. just after it passed by Borough Hall – which clearly appears in the background – and is about to merge with Court St. – the road appearing at the right end of the picture – on its way to Fulton Ferry. This is, in short, exactly where the Tivoli once stood.
Luis, thanks so much for informing us of Time Out New York’s very deserving designation. As a frequent patron of this theater, I can easily verify that the designation is definitely deserved. I hope you – and many other viewers – will soon visit this place and share the wonderful experience that the Kew Gardens provides.
Bway, I think this place was situated on Havemeyer St., probably between South 1st and 2nd. Havemeyer was the main drag in this part of town and this was just a part of it. The fact that this was a market just underscores the commercial, non-cinematic, nature of this portion of Havemeyer St.
The old Nassau was situated about one block to the north on the block of Grand St. situated between Havemeyer and Marcy Ave.
My wife and I saw a play here earlier today. The theater is in wonderful shape and is a great place to see either a play or a movie. Due to the recent renovation, the capacity has been reduced to 650. The additional legroom provided was especially appreciated by this long limbed person.
Although the American premiere of the Potemkin was clearly a notable – even an historic – event, I agree that this lone cinematic experience provides a pretty thin justification for the inclusion of this theater on this site. Still, since this was an event that should clearly be noted – and even celebrated – in CT, unless some separate recognition can be provided, I would keep it in.
I just checked the City Planning Commission’s web page and saw that, at its February 22 review meeting, it decided to schedule the Ridgewood’s landmarks designation for a vote. This action should probably occur rather soon. Given the lack of any emerging opposition, a positive vote is clearly expected.
Then it’s off to the City Council, and another probable approval.
Glad to provide news of these very positive developments.
Attached is the 1951 picture of the Towne that JF referred to in the previous comment. It was the subject of some recent discussion on the Tivoli Theatre page where I, for one, initially mistakenly identified it as the Tivoli. But it is definitely the Towne.
This photo provides a snapshot of a brief era that occurred after the Fulton St. el had been razed but before this whole community was demolished and converted into the extremely banal Brooklyn Civic Center, as best typified by the uniquely ugly Supreme Court building.
The Towne was also situated in the immediate vicinity of the old, and long forgotten, Brooklyn Eagle Building.
View link
Having taken an even closer look at the map, I saw that it specifically identifies the Tivoli and shows it backing up on Adams St., the street one block east of Washington, with – as JF noted – one entrance on Myrtle Ave. The main, Fulton St. entrance was probably just below – or to the north – of the map. It was probably situated right across from Borough Hall and below the old el’s Borough Hall station.
Kevin Walsh of Forgotten NY has just produced a map of this area that does validate Warren’s point. I have linked it, whith appears at the beginning of Kevin’s excellent survey of Myrtle Ave., at the bottom of this post.
In the photograph, the Tivoli would be just out of sight to the left. Since it was taken north of the Myrtle Ave. intersection, the street immediately in front of the photographer is, in fact, Washington St. Fulton literally crosses diagonally from southeast to northwest in the foreground. Given these facts, the theater appearing in the picture is on Washington St., and the Towne Theater is the only possible choice.
My error involved not realizing how near the Myrtle/Fulton intersection was to Borough Hall. But the map really clears things up.
So, sorry for doubting you Warren.
View link
Thanks so much Bway for providing this valuable information.
The aerial shot is fascinating, since the Metro must of had one of the longest and narrowest lobbies that I have ever seen. It is entirely possible that whatever currently exists in the old lobby is not associated with the church at all, though it could also be used for auxiliary church space and provide a way to the fire exit.
Another thought that just struck me is that while Williamsburg may no longer host any movie theaters, it sure serves as the home of a ton of churches!
Thanks again.
Peter, I don’t think the date of the picture is necessarily wrong. Not much time lapsed between July 1977 and March 1978 – and such actions as the movement of a large congregation to another location usually do not occur immediately. Perhaps the management of the Gates did not, at first, believe that the closure was permanent and possibly planned for a timely reopening. Or maybe they first offered the property to several other movie theater management companies – a move that would have caused the least disruption. At the church’s end, perhaps their lease with the owners of the Bushwick would not end until sometime in 1978, and they did not want to risk the penalties of breaking it.
Beyond all this, the negotiation involved in leasing – or perhaps even purchasing – the old Gates would have absorbed more than a nominal amount of time. This was a big deal for all concerned parties – and big deals take time.
Thus, the fact that the Pilgrim Church was still operating out of the old RKO Bushwick in March 1978 is not at all surprising.
Not sure. But since the Gates closed in 1977, my guess is that the church left the Bushwick and moved into its new home pretty soon thereafter. So, this may have been one of the last pictures of the Bushwick to be shot before its long-term abandonment.
I just noticed the message on the facade. This picture was snapped during the brief period when the old Bushwick hosted the Pilgrim Baptist Church. i.e., before it moved to the old Loews Gates. This was, in fact, a very brief sliver of time.
What a great shot. I still can’t believe that such a major theater existed in what is now a gas station!
Since the Republic was showing Citizen Kane on this occasion, this shot must have been taken in the warm months of 1941.
Finally, when you link to the photo, by all means take a look at the lower numbered pictures. Most of them are pin-up shots featuring RKO’s young starlets. They are really hot. (The higher numbered photos mostly depict more formal pictures of RKO’s principal stars, including Leslie Howard, Kate Hepburn and Edna May Oliver. They are also very interesting, albeit less provacative.)
In a set of photos regarding the old Republic Theater in Williamsburg, I found this great shot of the Bushwick, which I do not believe appears on this page,
Enjoy – and hope the link works.
View link
As a lark, I visited the nine other sites named Idle Hour. They were scattered throughout the USA – with one showing up in Toronto. All of them began operations in the early years of the last century, and only one of them, situated in rural Virginia, is still operating. This theater is actually the successor of the original Idle Hour, which was a wooden structure that opened in 1912. They say that Tom Mix and his horse once paid a visit to the old theater.
I attached the CT page of the last existing Idle Hour below. I hope you find it interesting. Enjoy.
/theaters/17086/
I just discovered this page and have enjoyed reading about the management’s efforts to keep the place running. Keep up the good work.
I came across this page while searching for another Idle Hour Theatre in the Queens section of NYC. At the time, I thought no other theater would have so distinct a name. But, low and behold, fully ten Idle Hour Theaters were identified. All of them had their origin early in the last century – and this is the only one that is still operating.
Thanks for keeping the old name and best of luck in the future.
By the way, where exactly is Belle Haven in Virginia?
I was able to walk by the Ridgewood earlier today. Nothing has changed, and no one was available to discuss matters, though one of the interior doors remains open.
While the City Planning Commission has yet to schedule a public hearing on the Ridgewood’s landmark designation, this should occur soon, since its review is time limited. Hopefully, something will occur soon on both the designation and redevepment fronts.
I was able to visit this site today and can report the following.
The old Metro still exists and is now included within a church named the Iglasia Chrismatica Espiritu De Hermandad. While no reference to the church appears on the old – and narrow – Grand St. entrance, it is clearly depicted on the South 1st St. side of the building, which serves as the church’s current entrance. Given the fact that the building lot only references one street number on Grand St. but several on South 1st St., this makes sense, since most of the old theater proper abutted South 1st. (It is possible that the Grand St. portion of the building, which was the old lobby, hosts another use, though it is probably an auxiliary exit for the church. It is, in any event, painted in the same color scheme as is the church)
As noted above, the 194 Grand St. entrance is quite narrow and is flanked by two older buildings. (The latter were probably constructed when the previous theater was built.) It is a two story brick building with either an office or an apartment situated on the upper level. Unless you were informed of its previous use, you would never know that this was once a movie house.
So, I hope that I have filled in a gap here. Now, can anyone tell anything about the old Grand Opera House?
Thanks, site manager, for making the change that I suggested.
I took advantage of my day off to visit this location. Instead of an MTA office building, the old Melba site is included in a portion of a large – and extremely ugly – parking garage that extends all the way west to Bond St. The garage is situated on the upper three or four floors of this building. Several not very upscale retail stores – pretentiously called Livingston Shoppes – are situated at street level.
The reference in the introduction to an MTA office building probably refers to the mistaken Bourum Pl. site, since such a building has been constructed there. This also needs to be corrected.
I was able to visit this sight earlier today. Based on what I saw, I will qualify – but not change – the conclusion that I made in my recent comment that the picture recently provided by Warren and J.F. Lundy depicts the Tivoli.
As a first point, I was wrong in stating that Washington St. was situated somewhat to the east of the picture. In fact, the photographer probably took the shot at the very end – or was it the beginning – of this street. Since, however, Washington St. was laid out in a straight north-south direction directly aimed at – but never reaching – Borough Hall, it did not come in at an angle. On the other hand, this is exactly the course that Fulton St. took in the photograph, as it passed by Borough Hall and began its approach to Fulton Ferry. Thus, the picture depicts the Tivoli on Fulton St., just north of the end of Washington St., which ended its run at the Fulton st. intersection.
I know that it is difficult to recreate things that no longer exist, but I think I have gotten this right.
While, as clearly demonstrated by the previous picture, the Gates did show porn movies – at least in the late 1960’s – I do not believe it ever became an exclusively adult theater for any extended period of time. In fact, at least two of the previous comments reference viewing mainstream films during the 1970’s. My guess is that porn was shown here on occasional dates but was never the dominant genre presented – if you call porn a genre.
While the movie theater’s “desertion” of the community in 1977 was certainly regrettable, having experienced first hand the dreadful looting and fires that followed the July 13 blackout, I can certainly understand why this occurred.
The Pilgrim Chuech – and its charismatic principal pastor, Roy Brown, has become a very substantial presence in Bushwick. One of their satellite churches, in fact, is situated in the former home of 14 Holy Martyr’s Catholic Church. It is also maintained beautifully.
A very interesting thread on a very old theater. Wherever the Idle Hour was situared, and Ed Selero’s 7/12/07 post makes a compelling case, the theater’s zip code is definitely 11101, and this should be added to the introduction. If a comment by Warren in another LIC theater page had not mentioned the Idle Hour, I would never have come across this page.
One other point. I was struck by the Idle Hour’s quaint title and assumed that it would be about the only so named theater when I conducted the search. But fully 10 Idle Hour’s came up. So I guess this was a more popular name than I thought, in a very different era.
Very interesting page. However, the introduction’s claim that the Melba was situated at the corner of Livingston and Boerum Place is just wrong – and is correctly contradicted by the theater’s placement on the map. As Warren’s last link indicates, the Melba was situated at the intersection of Livingston and Hanover Place. The latter is a one block thoroughfare situated just to the east of Bond Street. Boerun Place and the new MTA building, on the other hand, are situated several blocks to the west.
While the old Melba was situated in what is only now considered the Boerum Hill community – this is very different than Boerum Place, which is an extension of Adams St. in downtown Brooklyn.
This error should be corrected.
I actually once visited this place during its church years. I friend was trying to convert me – alas to no avail. While I was not into old movie theaters at the time, the place seemed quite impressive – and the Brooklyn Tabernacle people presented a pretty good show. They have a GREAT chorus. So the old theater was crtainly used to great avail.
If the location depicted on the map is correct, this theater was situated in an industrial area that was largely cut off from residential neighborhoods of any size. (DUMBO was, at that time, not even an elephant, not to mention today’s trendy neighborhood.) This not only provides a good reason for its early demise but also raises the question of how a movie house could have been established here in the first place.
Is it possible that the address is wrong – or that the street numberings on Washington St. – which was largely replaced by Cadman Plaza East in the early 1960’s – have been changed? Certainly, a location a few blocks to the north would make a lot more sense.
I just discovered this page and what an absolute delight it is. It really is fascinating to revisit a part of Brooklyn that no longer exists. Wonderful pictures, at least for those links that still work.
In taking a closer look at the picture initially posted on 6/11/08 and my Hagstrom’s map, I believe it does, in fact, identify the Tivoli in its post-el days. For one thing, Washington St. occupied the roadbed of what is now Cadman Plaza East. (A small remnant of that street remains near the waterfront and flows directly into CPE.) Now, CPE approaches the Borough Hall area about a block east of what is included in the picture. (It abuts the western end of the old Post Office building.) The picture, on the other hand, depicts Fulton St. just after it passed by Borough Hall – which clearly appears in the background – and is about to merge with Court St. – the road appearing at the right end of the picture – on its way to Fulton Ferry. This is, in short, exactly where the Tivoli once stood.
Hope this helps to clear things up.