Of particular note here is the document titled “KING’S ROAD HISTORIC BUILDING REPORT JUNE 2015” in the 2015 application, which provides a (somewhat “potted”) history of the site. The original 1930s cinema plans—very beautifully drawn—are included on PDF pp28-34. Alas, the text on these is not quite resolved in this file, being throughly obliterated by aggressive JPEG compression.
Plans for the proposed cinema can be seen in the 2016 application at (basement) levels B2 (Auditoria 2 and 3 – “indicative layout” only) and B1 (Auditorium 1), the larger Auditorum 1 being situated above the two smaller auditoria, as is clearly shown in “PROPOSED SECTION AA.”
The architectural practice responsible for these plans is Paul Davis + Partners.
A scale is conveniently provided, and based on this, I estimate Auditorium 1 to be ~27m deep by ~21m wide, or almost 90ft.x70ft., equating to slightly under 6000sq.ft. in area.
The proposed main auditorium is therefore quite generously proportioned, being about the same size as the “existing” auditorium, if its sidewalls were moved in to form a rectangular auditorium. (The “existing” fanned out to about 105ft. wide at the rear.)
HowardBHaas: Estimating from the demolition plans (2016 application, but they’re probably identical in the 2015 application) — the screen width was probably 40-45ft.
More pure nuggets of tedium may be extracted and summarised here if/when I review more of the planning documents!
LARGE_screen_format: Indeed, a list of SRX-515DS equipped locations would be nice!
One of the SRX-515DS equipped locations is Vue Darlington (Link is to a case study from Sound Associates.)
I haven’t seen HFR theatrically, but at home I’ve been watching frame interpolated video for ages (Philips “Pixel Plus” on a 2004 CRT TV, these days “Intelligent Frame Creation”/“24p Smooth Film” on a Panasonic Viera.)
I know some people dislike the artifacts (which can look “plasticky”) with this processing but I’m willing to accept the tradeoff for generally smooth motion.
(Of course, there’s 60fps content out there, including on YouTube.)
All of this should provide a “canvas” which can be creatively used as desired, but personally… I don’t think movies need to look like they were shot on film at 24fps just because that’s what happened to be available for decades.
I think HFR hasn’t gained traction due to the very high overheads, for instance, (at 48fps) twice as many frames must be generated for CGI FX.
As interesting as this all is, I’m struggling to see how this fits in thematically with Cinema Treasures—perhaps we might consider another pathway for communication?
The Sony SRX-R515DS dual projector system in Vue West End Screens 5/7 already supports HFR (48/60fps 2D/3D at 2K resolution per DCP spec.)
Sony also state that the R500-series projectors are all “HDR-ready.”
(Albeit “HDR” in cinemas is something of a minefield!)
Considering that Sony claim 4.5fL 3D brightness is achieveable for the the SRX-R515DS dual projector system on a 23m wide silver screen with 2.4 gain, and the screens installed in Screens 5/7 of Vue West End are Clarus XC 170s (1.7 gain), being slightly larger than 13m wide according to the licensing plans, even allowing for “optimistic” published specifications, they should be able to achieve satisfactory brightness levels for 3D.
Sony also claims 8000:1 contrast ratio for the R515 projectors.
I can’t see Vue being in a tearing hurry to upgrade… it’s already a very good installation that they can advertise as featuring “Finity Sony Digital Cinema 4K” and “Dolby Atmos.”
Also, there are a number of other Vue auditoria in whch the SRX-515DS dual projector system has been installed:
The stadia which all but the front row of the LSQ IMAX seats are attached date from 1962, being the former “circle” seating area of Empire 1.
As theatreofvarieties kindly indicated on Cinema Treasures, in response to my tedious queries, the HVAC (air conditioning) extraction ducting is actually connected to lots of grilles behind the seating, although presumably the extract ducts could always be moved elsewhere or reconnected.
Looking at one of Zappomatic’s photos taken during the recent foyer refurbishment, which provides a partial view under the stadia, it’s clear that there is plenty of steel there, albeit I have no idea what materials are used to form the stepping itself.
Given the above, the fact that Cineworld (presumably) kept the existing intact in the foyer refurbishment works might suggest that there they have no intention of changing the stepping.
If it could be changed from above, it might difficult from a health and safety point of view, and could risk damage to the services and ceiling below.
I suppose they could, depending on structural (weight) limitations, build off the existing, but then this would presumably require the loss of half the rows?
So, based on the above uninformed brain dump and a lot of speculation on my part, it would appear to be a non-starter.
I haven’t been to the Greenwich Odeon since it was “the filmworks”—not difficult for me to get to but AFAIK, as you mention, the IMAX auditorium has a relatively small sized screen; with the BFI and now the Leicester Square IMAX also easy for me to get to, it doesn’t seem worth the bother.
IMO it wasn’t worth visiting when it was “the filmworks,” very much a run of the mill multiplex; albeit, for better or worse, it was one of the earliest examples of an all-“black box” auditoria location in this country.
The last time I purchased food at a cinema was flavoured popcorn at the Odeon Leicester Square in the late 90s. Stopping by Five Guys before or after the performance is a better option in my view. ;–)
Hmm… it might. In my view the LSQ IMAX is currently the best cinema in the West End—not necessarily in terms of programming but as a cinema, i.e. overall package of comfort (legroom issue isn’t a massive problem for me,) outstanding picture quality, middle row seat positioning in relation to the screen, and very good sound also, plus some of the spacious scale and other memories of the old Empire 1 are still there.
However, the concept I have in mind as far as the “première” auditoria are concerned is to be able to see the same film in multiple “premium” formats rather than, say, having to choose between Superscreen/Atmos and IMAX with Laser. Paying the “normal” price for tickets, particularly if the 4DX is included also, starts to become absurd.
The annual cost of the Unlimited West End card still pays for lots of IMAX tickets per year, so, on that basis alone it’s perhaps slightly hard to justify. But then I could see, say, “Rampage” in the IMAX screen… just for the sake of it.
Also, I quite like the idea of cinema trips being special events rather than multiple visits to see whatever in whatever auditorium, which could dilute the experience?
What can I say… I’m just dreadfully slow when it comes to mulling over purchases in excess of three figures… and my number one priority this week by a country mile was getting my air conditioner reinstated at home. :–)
Can’t speak for Cineworld but pretty obviously if you’re rebranding/resigning all the foyer/lobby/access areas then that provides an opportunity to tidy things up by renumbering.
With all incremental changes made over the years including additional auditoria the cinema has become something of a maze, and introducing a 4DX screen only adds to the potential confusion.
The current scheme makes sense in that, from the top of the vestibule stairs up from the Leicester Square entrance, turn left for Screens 1-3, all sequential along the left side of the foyer, and turn right for 5-7, all at upper levels.
That then leaves 4 as the odd one out among 4/8/9 among screens that are normally referenced by “brand name,” but at least the 4DX can’t be confused with another Screen 4.
Other permutations can be thought of that might work, but I think that Cineworld have chosen the best option.
Leaflets promoting the “Unlimited” card were being handed out outside Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square today; I asked the person handing them out what the uplift charge was for the IMAX, and they told me that it is £7. (Perhaps I should “get with it” and use “social media?!”)
12 months of Meerkat Movies can be obtained by purchasing a single days travel insurance within the UK for less than a few pounds! ;o)
That’s a great tip, thank you very much. :–)
I’m going to guess that the uplift charges at LSQ are the same as the premium ticket price minus the standard ticket price—so other than the Superscreen, about £4 more than the Sheffield uplift charges.
P.S. I was a “big fan” of Empire 1 more than am I of the LSQ Superscreen but it’s still a good cinema. ;–)
AFAIK Meerkat Movies (2 for 1) is available for Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square and Vue West End, albeit uplift charges are applied for non-standard seats/screenings.
Alas, I’ve not purchased any products through “Compare the Market.” I did use Orange/EE Wednesdays (2 for 1) a couple of times, although these days friends have to be dragged screaming and kicking to go to the cinema—they’d sooner wait out the Pay TV release window and watch movies on their 60"+ 4K TVs via Sky. In some cases I think they’ve not been to the cinema in such a long time that they have no idea about the comfort levels (e.g. reclining seats) and audio/picture quality available today.
(Having said that, the interest in cinema trips among peers started its decline when the “joys” of grossly excessive alcohol consumption were “discovered!”)
To my mind a film like “Blade Runner 2049” is utterly wasted on TV.
I don’t mind paying West End prices for premiere screens offering exceptional presentation quality (as well as the general high quality and ambience of lobby spaces) but as I said elsewhere on this site it does get absurdly expensive to attend performances in all of the proliferating formats available. I have Cineworld Unlimited West End in mind but there are still uplift charges to pay (and I can’t seem to find what they are for Leicester Square!)
LARGE_screen_format: Interesting, thanks for the info.
Of very little use to me at those locations but if it’s rolled out… I guess this is Vue’s answer to Cineworld’s “Unlimited” card and Odeon’s “Limitless.”
I’ve seen 26.3m for the IMAX screen width, but I can’t find a definitive source for this; however, Vue’s website confirms that it is “one of the largest IMAX screens in Europe.”
BTW, all standard 2D seats are currently £4.99 (!) at this cinema.
LARGE_screen_format: The loss of side seats progressively towards the front of the auditorium occurs elsewhere, notably at the Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square since the circle/stadium section of the converted 1960s auditorium is very wide (estimated (from licensing plans) almost 120ft. at the rear, and about 105ft. at the front row of the stadia, the seating width being reduced there to about 75ft. for IMAX 3D.)
From the licensing plans:
IMAX – 723 seats (and 4 accessible spaces) of which 486 are “3D seats” and 128 are “2D seats” (614 seats for 2D IMAX performances), with the remaining 109 seats being “Non IMAX seats.”
Looking at Odeon’s online booking pages, the BFI IMAX loses 32 seats for 3D presentations.
Regarding Dolby Atmos vs. IMAX 12 channel, Dolby Atmos is unquestionably technically more sophisticated as an objects-based system which can adapt to different speaker layouts. It also provides a separate LFE channel and a derived rear sub-bass (where needed to meet output capability specs for the rears/overheads,) whereas IMAX has one derived sub-bass channel feeding the screen subwoofers.
However, IMAX auditoria ought to be more consistent in terms of geometry and layout, thus reducing the need for an “adaptive” objects-based system. Furthermore, to date all 12 channel installations have been in larger IMAX venues as the original IMAX with Laser system was intended to replace 15/70 projection in IMAX “Grand Theatre” locations.
Thus the speakers should be identical and relatively similarly placed in all auditoria, and the content is remixed by IMAX for their 12 channel format.
Dolby Atmos allows for a range of venues and equipment, albeit Dolby Atmos has quite specific specifications, including speaker layouts, and every installation requires their approval.
An Atmos installation such as the one at the Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square will certainly beat 12 channel IMAX but this a top-end installation (e.g. 5 JBL ScreenArray screen speakers with bafflettes and full active digital crossovers) and so its superiority is not only due to the sound format.
IIRC at the time of opening Cineworld (then Virgin) Sheffield had the widest screen in the country; my vague recollection is that it was about 70ft. wide.
There is also apparently a good Atmos installation in the iSense auditorium.
I vaguely recollect a Cinema Technology Magazine feature on this cinema, but on their revamped site most of the back issues are no longer available online and I can’t find it there. Odeon did/do consider it to be a “flagship” site.
BTW, looking at the cinema’s webpage again, the “Auditorium info” section does state that the IMAX screen size is “10.32 metres high by 18.5 meters [sic] wide.”
According to information on Wikipedia, the Odeon Milton Keynes Stadium IMAX screen is 18.5m by 10.32m (~61x34ft.)—but the citation given is to the cinema’s page on Odeon’s website, and I can’t find the screen size there.
MovieGeek2013: IMAX’s laser projection system also uses DLP chips; the difference is that the light source is laser rather than xenon.
LARGE_screen_format: I travelled there yesterday on the Tube (Jubilee Line.)
The current pricing for parking is on O2 Centre’s website. Given the terms stated on that page, the centre’s 500 car parking spaces are clearly intended more for the use by customers of the supermarket/DIY centre, e.g. the 2 hours' free parking offer for those shopping at those stores is forfeited should the duration of their parking stay exceed 2 hours.
I, too, wasn’t overly impressed by the Xtreme screen (Screen 7) I’ve visited a couple of times at Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush), nor the venue as a whole for that matter, given that it’s a “flagship” location.
The screen is somewhat bigger than that in the O2 Finchley Road Xtreme (18x10m (~59x33ft.) according to a Time Out article cited by a Wikipedia article) but with 18 rows the auditorium is quite deep.
To cut Vue a bit of slack, although in the case of their two Westfield sites I’m not really sure they deserve any given how successful those locations are, the PLF market and cinemas in general are moving at a very rapid pace.
Personally, I’d rather see a film at Screens 5 or 7 at Vue West End. ;–)
A building control application for the current phase of works, dated as received 25th June 2018, is now listed on Westminster’s site.
The description field contains: “Refurbishment of cinemas 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 (small auditoria) of multiplex cinema. The refurbishment involves adjustment of stadia construction (1, 2, 5, 6 and 7), change of floor finishes, new illuminated nosing on the steps, adjustment of speakers, and installation of new seats.”
It will be interesting to see if the IMAX/Superscreen will be overhauled this year in a further phase of works or if, as a member of staff told me, Cineworld have no plans for this at the present time.
I visited the Vue Finchley Road (O2 Centre) today to attend a preview screening in Screen 8 (Xtreme), having not been here since the late 1990s, when I saw a couple of movies at this cinema.
According to Vue, the Xtreme screen is >16m wide and >7m high (or >52ft. x >23ft.), being “scope” format as PhilipWW says.
The Xtreme screen isn’t quite wall-to-wall but there’s no tabs or masking; perhaps the screen was increased in size when Vue rebranded the auditorium as “Xtreme,” but the rear array speakers certainly don’t seem to have been upgraded, being the same KCS surrounds that were installed at opening!
The auditorium is fairly deep with 16 rows, the front 5 of which are on a flatter rake, and the rest on a fairly steep stadia, with 5 rows of VIP seating in the centre section. Looking at satellite images of the complex, the auditorium is perhaps 80ft. deep, and I ended up in a seat near the rear of the auditorium.
The experience was therefore far from “Xtreme” but the picture quality was good, with no obvious signs of geometric distortion, and the sound was acceptable but not outstanding.
It has been overhauled to an extent since opening, Screen 8 being fitted with black stretched fabric on the auditorium walls and black leather seating (same type as Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush) IIRC — not comfortable at all and slightly sagging!) Corridors have the same signage and red coloured wallcoverings as Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush.)
It is mostly in reasonable condition though slightly shabby in a few places, notably with paint chipped off skirting corners along the vomitory access into the auditorium, and some slight damage to wall coverings in the corridors leading to the auditoria.
Some Warner Village late 90s “house style” features remain, such as the circular gantry in the foyer, from which I assume decorative “triangle” shaped blue and yellow cold cathode strips were originally hung, and “star” shaped handles on auditorium entrance doors.
The air conditioning was absolutely not up to standard, being hot in the corridors leading to the auditoria, and mostly too hot in the auditorium itself—just not a sufficient relief from the 30°C temperature outside. However, the atrium of the O2 Centre, with escalators leading up to cinema entrance level, was adequately cooled.
Incidentally, at this site Vue are currently offering “Super Monday” tickets at £4.99 for 2D screenings in standard seats (albeit with additional charges for 3D/Xtreme performances and VIP seats.)
Note to Cinema Treasures: It’s the “O2 Centre” rather than “02.”
LARGE_screen_format: (Responding first to the additional material in your revised post.)
Presumably, the new screens are auditoria 13 to 17 and use Barco laser projection (which is used at Showcase Cinema de Luxe, Southampton)? Their website just lists Sony 4K projection.
Screen 14 is programmed with “I Feel Pretty” at 4:30pm on Monday 25th June (I just selected a random date/time when poking about.) I can’t see any “events” programmed? AFAIK it features all reclining seats, so the seat count may belie the auditorium’s size.
Regular ticket prices seem reasonable (cheap compared to the West End, London!).
And… no 3D “upcharge” for the XPlus. :–)
Don’t often head out towards Dartford but this cinema seems like it warrants a special trip!
Dartford Schmartford, it’s in Greenhithe—the only thing worth visiting in Dartford is the River Crossing! ;–)
It’s easy for me to get to, so I’ll definitely check out the XPlus this summer.
60 feet (18.29m) wide, if indeed that is the size of the IMAX screen at Showcase Cinema de Luxe, Bluewater, is the same width as Cineworld, Hemel Hempstead. It seats 281 versus ~450 so I expected a larger screen. Will certainly watch a movie there and possibly also one in XPlus although I may save doing the latter in Showcase Cinema de Luxe, Southampton instead.
The two largest “blocks” in a 2017 aerial image (which shows no differences to a 1999 aerial image of that part of Bluewater other than a large block to the East, that apparently houses an indoor trampoline (!) park; not sure what else is in there) that could house a single auditorium measure slightly larger than 60ft. by between ~85-95ft. externally.
With 15 rows at, say, 4ft. spacing, 60ft. depth would be required for the seating area alone!
Looking at the fire exits using Google Streetview, the ~60ft. x ~85ft. block seems to be the more plausible location to house the IMAX. These “back of an envelope” estimates then add up pretty well, allowing for the distance of the last row to the screen to be beyond, but not disasterously so, the “maximum” 1x screen width—by how much would depend on whether the front row distance to the screen is closer than the “minimum” 0.35x screen width, as well as, obviously, the actual row spacing.
Thanks again for sharing some interesting info, I must say I do very much enjoy reading your posts. ;o)
Thank you again, I’m glad you like them. :–) I enjoy making contributions here, even if I suspect that I’m talking to myself most of the time. ;–)
I’ve been to this cinema (and therefore Bluewater) many times, but not for many years now and not since any of the later additions/alterations.
Of course, from the point of view of someone such as myself, the mall was full of useless overpriced womens' clothing retailers and bizzare soap shops from which overpowering scents seemed to curiously waft out. ;–)
It was originally masterplanned by Eric Kuhne & Associates and the main mall areas are very comfortable—albeit with very “pastiche” styling.
One of the seemingly pointlessly “vernacular” nods turns out to be functional—the “oast house”-styled shafts on the curved glazed roofs are actually used to provide ventilation.
Otherwise, it was largely a “retail palace” full of fakery—and it’s therefore perhaps ironic that the original cinema, separately designed, was a stripped down affair, the original cinema block exteriors being covered with grey cladding—-no fake columns or roofs hiding services!
I should add that Bluewater’s setting is unique—entered by descending down into another world, a glitzy gulch that was once a chalk pit.
Onto the cinema. I actually can’t remember anything much about it other than the spacious but bland foyer!
LARGE_screen_format:
Added this to my list of cinemas to visit. I seem to recall watching one movie at this cinema in one of the small auditoria in the mid to late 90’s. Was shopping in Bluewater, hadn’t planned on watching a movie and had already seen the major new releases elsewhere. IIRC the seats seemed comfy (blue velour?) but that’s about all that I came away thinking at the time.
I vaguely recollect that the seats were indeed quite comfortable by the standards of the day, and maybe they were indeed upholstered in blue.
I don’t recall any major presentation gaffs (such as failing to switch to the anamorphic lens), I think all the auditoria I visited had moveable masking, but not sure if tabs were installed.
As I said above, though, even the THX certified auditoria were more or less run of the mill, e.g. in terms of sound quality.
Does anyone know the size of the IMAX screen (screen 4)? Seems a strange decision to have both an IMAX screen plus a XPlus screen (Showcase’s own large screen format) in the same cinema as they would be competing against one another.
Doing a quick search on the relevant local authority site, I can’t find any plans among various planning applications, and the licensing database doesn’t include them.
Looking at aerial images taken before the recent extension was built, I’d guess the IMAX screen is no more than 60ft. wide.
The proliferation of formats each with their own pros and cons is frustrating but it’s not unique in featuring both an “own brand” PLF screen as well as an IMAX—and Bluewater has a very high footfall of relatively affluent visitors presumably providing a steady supply of patrons willing to pay for premium tickets!
First performance is “Solo: A Star Wars Story” at 11:40am.
Maybe they’ve eliminated the back row as the licensing plans (for the original Empire fit-out) show 14 seats in the last row with no space to spare, whilst the new seating arrangement has 15 seats.
(The auditorium narrows to the back with an angled right sidewall, the space being used for access to Screen 5 (formerly 7.))
If that’s the case then were they to lose another couple of seats, this would enable the left sidewall to be altered, thereby creating a symmetrical auditorium. Alas, I doubt Cineworld are thinking in terms of symmetrical rear array speaker layouts in a small auditorium!
Look forward to updates on the “flies inside projector box” situation. ;–)
P.S. Forgot to ask — how was the picture and sound quality in the refurbished Screen 1?
The main planning applications relating to the redevelopment are:
PP/15/04338 – “Partial demolition and redevelopment of 196-222 King’s Road with a two storey basement excavation, to provide cinema floor space at basement and ground floor level; (etc…)”.
PP/16/04793 – “New plans reflecting proposed changes including the demolition and rebuild of Friese Green House, alterations to the King’s Road elevation, additional basement excavation and provision of additional photovoltaic panels”.
Of particular note here is the document titled “KING’S ROAD HISTORIC BUILDING REPORT JUNE 2015” in the 2015 application, which provides a (somewhat “potted”) history of the site. The original 1930s cinema plans—very beautifully drawn—are included on PDF pp28-34. Alas, the text on these is not quite resolved in this file, being throughly obliterated by aggressive JPEG compression.
Plans for the proposed cinema can be seen in the 2016 application at (basement) levels B2 (Auditoria 2 and 3 – “indicative layout” only) and B1 (Auditorium 1), the larger Auditorum 1 being situated above the two smaller auditoria, as is clearly shown in “PROPOSED SECTION AA.”
The architectural practice responsible for these plans is Paul Davis + Partners.
A scale is conveniently provided, and based on this, I estimate Auditorium 1 to be ~27m deep by ~21m wide, or almost 90ft.x70ft., equating to slightly under 6000sq.ft. in area.
The proposed main auditorium is therefore quite generously proportioned, being about the same size as the “existing” auditorium, if its sidewalls were moved in to form a rectangular auditorium. (The “existing” fanned out to about 105ft. wide at the rear.)
HowardBHaas: Estimating from the demolition plans (2016 application, but they’re probably identical in the 2015 application) — the screen width was probably 40-45ft.
More pure nuggets of tedium may be extracted and summarised here if/when I review more of the planning documents!
LARGE_screen_format: Indeed, a list of SRX-515DS equipped locations would be nice!
One of the SRX-515DS equipped locations is Vue Darlington (Link is to a case study from Sound Associates.)
I haven’t seen HFR theatrically, but at home I’ve been watching frame interpolated video for ages (Philips “Pixel Plus” on a 2004 CRT TV, these days “Intelligent Frame Creation”/“24p Smooth Film” on a Panasonic Viera.)
I know some people dislike the artifacts (which can look “plasticky”) with this processing but I’m willing to accept the tradeoff for generally smooth motion.
(Of course, there’s 60fps content out there, including on YouTube.)
All of this should provide a “canvas” which can be creatively used as desired, but personally… I don’t think movies need to look like they were shot on film at 24fps just because that’s what happened to be available for decades.
I think HFR hasn’t gained traction due to the very high overheads, for instance, (at 48fps) twice as many frames must be generated for CGI FX.
As interesting as this all is, I’m struggling to see how this fits in thematically with Cinema Treasures—perhaps we might consider another pathway for communication?
LARGE_screen_format:
The Sony SRX-R515DS dual projector system in Vue West End Screens 5/7 already supports HFR (48/60fps 2D/3D at 2K resolution per DCP spec.)
Sony also state that the R500-series projectors are all “HDR-ready.”
(Albeit “HDR” in cinemas is something of a minefield!)
Considering that Sony claim 4.5fL 3D brightness is achieveable for the the SRX-R515DS dual projector system on a 23m wide silver screen with 2.4 gain, and the screens installed in Screens 5/7 of Vue West End are Clarus XC 170s (1.7 gain), being slightly larger than 13m wide according to the licensing plans, even allowing for “optimistic” published specifications, they should be able to achieve satisfactory brightness levels for 3D.
Sony also claims 8000:1 contrast ratio for the R515 projectors.
I can’t see Vue being in a tearing hurry to upgrade… it’s already a very good installation that they can advertise as featuring “Finity Sony Digital Cinema 4K” and “Dolby Atmos.”
Also, there are a number of other Vue auditoria in whch the SRX-515DS dual projector system has been installed:
Vue International’s largest cinema screens go 4K.
LARGE_screen_format:
The stadia which all but the front row of the LSQ IMAX seats are attached date from 1962, being the former “circle” seating area of Empire 1.
As theatreofvarieties kindly indicated on Cinema Treasures, in response to my tedious queries, the HVAC (air conditioning) extraction ducting is actually connected to lots of grilles behind the seating, although presumably the extract ducts could always be moved elsewhere or reconnected.
Looking at one of Zappomatic’s photos taken during the recent foyer refurbishment, which provides a partial view under the stadia, it’s clear that there is plenty of steel there, albeit I have no idea what materials are used to form the stepping itself.
Given the above, the fact that Cineworld (presumably) kept the existing intact in the foyer refurbishment works might suggest that there they have no intention of changing the stepping.
If it could be changed from above, it might difficult from a health and safety point of view, and could risk damage to the services and ceiling below.
I suppose they could, depending on structural (weight) limitations, build off the existing, but then this would presumably require the loss of half the rows?
So, based on the above uninformed brain dump and a lot of speculation on my part, it would appear to be a non-starter.
BTW: Photo of the IMPACT/Superscreen auditorium build – stadium seating structure can be seen. Note that the steel girder supporting the balcony is actually hung from the roof structure!
Did you enjoy “Rampage”?
I haven’t been to the Greenwich Odeon since it was “the filmworks”—not difficult for me to get to but AFAIK, as you mention, the IMAX auditorium has a relatively small sized screen; with the BFI and now the Leicester Square IMAX also easy for me to get to, it doesn’t seem worth the bother.
IMO it wasn’t worth visiting when it was “the filmworks,” very much a run of the mill multiplex; albeit, for better or worse, it was one of the earliest examples of an all-“black box” auditoria location in this country.
The last time I purchased food at a cinema was flavoured popcorn at the Odeon Leicester Square in the late 90s. Stopping by Five Guys before or after the performance is a better option in my view. ;–)
Hmm… it might. In my view the LSQ IMAX is currently the best cinema in the West End—not necessarily in terms of programming but as a cinema, i.e. overall package of comfort (legroom issue isn’t a massive problem for me,) outstanding picture quality, middle row seat positioning in relation to the screen, and very good sound also, plus some of the spacious scale and other memories of the old Empire 1 are still there.
However, the concept I have in mind as far as the “première” auditoria are concerned is to be able to see the same film in multiple “premium” formats rather than, say, having to choose between Superscreen/Atmos and IMAX with Laser. Paying the “normal” price for tickets, particularly if the 4DX is included also, starts to become absurd.
The annual cost of the Unlimited West End card still pays for lots of IMAX tickets per year, so, on that basis alone it’s perhaps slightly hard to justify. But then I could see, say, “Rampage” in the IMAX screen… just for the sake of it.
Also, I quite like the idea of cinema trips being special events rather than multiple visits to see whatever in whatever auditorium, which could dilute the experience?
What can I say… I’m just dreadfully slow when it comes to mulling over purchases in excess of three figures… and my number one priority this week by a country mile was getting my air conditioner reinstated at home. :–)
Can’t speak for Cineworld but pretty obviously if you’re rebranding/resigning all the foyer/lobby/access areas then that provides an opportunity to tidy things up by renumbering.
With all incremental changes made over the years including additional auditoria the cinema has become something of a maze, and introducing a 4DX screen only adds to the potential confusion.
The current scheme makes sense in that, from the top of the vestibule stairs up from the Leicester Square entrance, turn left for Screens 1-3, all sequential along the left side of the foyer, and turn right for 5-7, all at upper levels.
That then leaves 4 as the odd one out among 4/8/9 among screens that are normally referenced by “brand name,” but at least the 4DX can’t be confused with another Screen 4.
Other permutations can be thought of that might work, but I think that Cineworld have chosen the best option.
Leaflets promoting the “Unlimited” card were being handed out outside Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square today; I asked the person handing them out what the uplift charge was for the IMAX, and they told me that it is £7. (Perhaps I should “get with it” and use “social media?!”)
LARGE_screen_format: Don’t worry, it’s the thought that counts. :–) Unlimited trips to the LSQ Superscreen would be just great. :–)
LARGE_screen_format:
That’s a great tip, thank you very much. :–)
I’m going to guess that the uplift charges at LSQ are the same as the premium ticket price minus the standard ticket price—so other than the Superscreen, about £4 more than the Sheffield uplift charges.
P.S. I was a “big fan” of Empire 1 more than am I of the LSQ Superscreen but it’s still a good cinema. ;–)
AFAIK Meerkat Movies (2 for 1) is available for Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square and Vue West End, albeit uplift charges are applied for non-standard seats/screenings.
Alas, I’ve not purchased any products through “Compare the Market.” I did use Orange/EE Wednesdays (2 for 1) a couple of times, although these days friends have to be dragged screaming and kicking to go to the cinema—they’d sooner wait out the Pay TV release window and watch movies on their 60"+ 4K TVs via Sky. In some cases I think they’ve not been to the cinema in such a long time that they have no idea about the comfort levels (e.g. reclining seats) and audio/picture quality available today.
(Having said that, the interest in cinema trips among peers started its decline when the “joys” of grossly excessive alcohol consumption were “discovered!”)
To my mind a film like “Blade Runner 2049” is utterly wasted on TV.
I don’t mind paying West End prices for premiere screens offering exceptional presentation quality (as well as the general high quality and ambience of lobby spaces) but as I said elsewhere on this site it does get absurdly expensive to attend performances in all of the proliferating formats available. I have Cineworld Unlimited West End in mind but there are still uplift charges to pay (and I can’t seem to find what they are for Leicester Square!)
LARGE_screen_format: Interesting, thanks for the info.
Of very little use to me at those locations but if it’s rolled out… I guess this is Vue’s answer to Cineworld’s “Unlimited” card and Odeon’s “Limitless.”
I’ve seen 26.3m for the IMAX screen width, but I can’t find a definitive source for this; however, Vue’s website confirms that it is “one of the largest IMAX screens in Europe.”
BTW, all standard 2D seats are currently £4.99 (!) at this cinema.
I believe it was that auditorium (Screen 7) that was converted to IMAX.
Sheffield Telegraph article.
I also vaguely recollect that Screen 7 was THX certified on opening, but I’m not confident about this.
LARGE_screen_format: The loss of side seats progressively towards the front of the auditorium occurs elsewhere, notably at the Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square since the circle/stadium section of the converted 1960s auditorium is very wide (estimated (from licensing plans) almost 120ft. at the rear, and about 105ft. at the front row of the stadia, the seating width being reduced there to about 75ft. for IMAX 3D.)
From the licensing plans:
IMAX – 723 seats (and 4 accessible spaces) of which 486 are “3D seats” and 128 are “2D seats” (614 seats for 2D IMAX performances), with the remaining 109 seats being “Non IMAX seats.”
Looking at Odeon’s online booking pages, the BFI IMAX loses 32 seats for 3D presentations.
Regarding Dolby Atmos vs. IMAX 12 channel, Dolby Atmos is unquestionably technically more sophisticated as an objects-based system which can adapt to different speaker layouts. It also provides a separate LFE channel and a derived rear sub-bass (where needed to meet output capability specs for the rears/overheads,) whereas IMAX has one derived sub-bass channel feeding the screen subwoofers.
However, IMAX auditoria ought to be more consistent in terms of geometry and layout, thus reducing the need for an “adaptive” objects-based system. Furthermore, to date all 12 channel installations have been in larger IMAX venues as the original IMAX with Laser system was intended to replace 15/70 projection in IMAX “Grand Theatre” locations.
Thus the speakers should be identical and relatively similarly placed in all auditoria, and the content is remixed by IMAX for their 12 channel format.
Dolby Atmos allows for a range of venues and equipment, albeit Dolby Atmos has quite specific specifications, including speaker layouts, and every installation requires their approval.
An Atmos installation such as the one at the Cineworld (Empire) Leicester Square will certainly beat 12 channel IMAX but this a top-end installation (e.g. 5 JBL ScreenArray screen speakers with bafflettes and full active digital crossovers) and so its superiority is not only due to the sound format.
IIRC at the time of opening Cineworld (then Virgin) Sheffield had the widest screen in the country; my vague recollection is that it was about 70ft. wide.
There is also apparently a good Atmos installation in the iSense auditorium.
I vaguely recollect a Cinema Technology Magazine feature on this cinema, but on their revamped site most of the back issues are no longer available online and I can’t find it there. Odeon did/do consider it to be a “flagship” site.
BTW, looking at the cinema’s webpage again, the “Auditorium info” section does state that the IMAX screen size is “10.32 metres high by 18.5 meters [sic] wide.”
It definitely isn’t worth visiting! Undiscounted ticket prices are high also.
That said, cinema customers are actually eligible for the “shopper tariff,” so it would be £6 for 3-4 hours.
According to information on Wikipedia, the Odeon Milton Keynes Stadium IMAX screen is 18.5m by 10.32m (~61x34ft.)—but the citation given is to the cinema’s page on Odeon’s website, and I can’t find the screen size there.
MovieGeek2013: IMAX’s laser projection system also uses DLP chips; the difference is that the light source is laser rather than xenon.
LARGE_screen_format: I travelled there yesterday on the Tube (Jubilee Line.)
The current pricing for parking is on O2 Centre’s website. Given the terms stated on that page, the centre’s 500 car parking spaces are clearly intended more for the use by customers of the supermarket/DIY centre, e.g. the 2 hours' free parking offer for those shopping at those stores is forfeited should the duration of their parking stay exceed 2 hours.
I, too, wasn’t overly impressed by the Xtreme screen (Screen 7) I’ve visited a couple of times at Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush), nor the venue as a whole for that matter, given that it’s a “flagship” location.
The screen is somewhat bigger than that in the O2 Finchley Road Xtreme (18x10m (~59x33ft.) according to a Time Out article cited by a Wikipedia article) but with 18 rows the auditorium is quite deep.
To cut Vue a bit of slack, although in the case of their two Westfield sites I’m not really sure they deserve any given how successful those locations are, the PLF market and cinemas in general are moving at a very rapid pace.
Personally, I’d rather see a film at Screens 5 or 7 at Vue West End. ;–)
A building control application for the current phase of works, dated as received 25th June 2018, is now listed on Westminster’s site.
The description field contains: “Refurbishment of cinemas 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 (small auditoria) of multiplex cinema. The refurbishment involves adjustment of stadia construction (1, 2, 5, 6 and 7), change of floor finishes, new illuminated nosing on the steps, adjustment of speakers, and installation of new seats.”
It will be interesting to see if the IMAX/Superscreen will be overhauled this year in a further phase of works or if, as a member of staff told me, Cineworld have no plans for this at the present time.
Taken June 2018.
The waterfall feature can be seen in this photo:
http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/21180/photos/89737.
(I’m sure that it was linked to in the original “Description” field text, but links/markup doesn’t seem to work there…)
I visited the Vue Finchley Road (O2 Centre) today to attend a preview screening in Screen 8 (Xtreme), having not been here since the late 1990s, when I saw a couple of movies at this cinema.
According to Vue, the Xtreme screen is >16m wide and >7m high (or >52ft. x >23ft.), being “scope” format as PhilipWW says.
The Xtreme screen isn’t quite wall-to-wall but there’s no tabs or masking; perhaps the screen was increased in size when Vue rebranded the auditorium as “Xtreme,” but the rear array speakers certainly don’t seem to have been upgraded, being the same KCS surrounds that were installed at opening!
The auditorium is fairly deep with 16 rows, the front 5 of which are on a flatter rake, and the rest on a fairly steep stadia, with 5 rows of VIP seating in the centre section. Looking at satellite images of the complex, the auditorium is perhaps 80ft. deep, and I ended up in a seat near the rear of the auditorium.
The experience was therefore far from “Xtreme” but the picture quality was good, with no obvious signs of geometric distortion, and the sound was acceptable but not outstanding.
It has been overhauled to an extent since opening, Screen 8 being fitted with black stretched fabric on the auditorium walls and black leather seating (same type as Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush) IIRC — not comfortable at all and slightly sagging!) Corridors have the same signage and red coloured wallcoverings as Vue Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush.)
It is mostly in reasonable condition though slightly shabby in a few places, notably with paint chipped off skirting corners along the vomitory access into the auditorium, and some slight damage to wall coverings in the corridors leading to the auditoria.
Some Warner Village late 90s “house style” features remain, such as the circular gantry in the foyer, from which I assume decorative “triangle” shaped blue and yellow cold cathode strips were originally hung, and “star” shaped handles on auditorium entrance doors.
The air conditioning was absolutely not up to standard, being hot in the corridors leading to the auditoria, and mostly too hot in the auditorium itself—just not a sufficient relief from the 30°C temperature outside. However, the atrium of the O2 Centre, with escalators leading up to cinema entrance level, was adequately cooled.
Incidentally, at this site Vue are currently offering “Super Monday” tickets at £4.99 for 2D screenings in standard seats (albeit with additional charges for 3D/Xtreme performances and VIP seats.)
Note to Cinema Treasures: It’s the “O2 Centre” rather than “02.”
Zappomatic: Thanks for the updates!
Good to hear the “cine-flies” (“Flies More at Cineworld”?) are being kept at bay!
Shame there’s no photos of the access to Screen 3 before it was given a makeover.
By the sounds of it Screen 3 won’t be left with many seats after the impending overhaul!
LARGE_screen_format: (Responding first to the additional material in your revised post.)
See website banner for Laser Projection at Showcase Cinema de Lux Bluewater. :–)
On the bookings page those advertised with recliner seating are 14, 16, and 17, so with XPlus being Screen 15, I assume 14-17 are the new auditoria.
As for whether they’re using Barco laser projectors:
National Amusements to install Barco laser projectors in all Showcase XPlus houses.
Screen 14 is programmed with “I Feel Pretty” at 4:30pm on Monday 25th June (I just selected a random date/time when poking about.) I can’t see any “events” programmed? AFAIK it features all reclining seats, so the seat count may belie the auditorium’s size.
And… no 3D “upcharge” for the XPlus. :–)
Dartford Schmartford, it’s in Greenhithe—the only thing worth visiting in Dartford is the River Crossing! ;–)
It’s easy for me to get to, so I’ll definitely check out the XPlus this summer.
The two largest “blocks” in a 2017 aerial image (which shows no differences to a 1999 aerial image of that part of Bluewater other than a large block to the East, that apparently houses an indoor trampoline (!) park; not sure what else is in there) that could house a single auditorium measure slightly larger than 60ft. by between ~85-95ft. externally.
With 15 rows at, say, 4ft. spacing, 60ft. depth would be required for the seating area alone!
Looking at the fire exits using Google Streetview, the ~60ft. x ~85ft. block seems to be the more plausible location to house the IMAX. These “back of an envelope” estimates then add up pretty well, allowing for the distance of the last row to the screen to be beyond, but not disasterously so, the “maximum” 1x screen width—by how much would depend on whether the front row distance to the screen is closer than the “minimum” 0.35x screen width, as well as, obviously, the actual row spacing.
Thank you again, I’m glad you like them. :–) I enjoy making contributions here, even if I suspect that I’m talking to myself most of the time. ;–)
I’ve been to this cinema (and therefore Bluewater) many times, but not for many years now and not since any of the later additions/alterations.
Of course, from the point of view of someone such as myself, the mall was full of useless overpriced womens' clothing retailers and bizzare soap shops from which overpowering scents seemed to curiously waft out. ;–)
It was originally masterplanned by Eric Kuhne & Associates and the main mall areas are very comfortable—albeit with very “pastiche” styling.
One of the seemingly pointlessly “vernacular” nods turns out to be functional—the “oast house”-styled shafts on the curved glazed roofs are actually used to provide ventilation.
Otherwise, it was largely a “retail palace” full of fakery—and it’s therefore perhaps ironic that the original cinema, separately designed, was a stripped down affair, the original cinema block exteriors being covered with grey cladding—-no fake columns or roofs hiding services!
I should add that Bluewater’s setting is unique—entered by descending down into another world, a glitzy gulch that was once a chalk pit.
Onto the cinema. I actually can’t remember anything much about it other than the spacious but bland foyer!
LARGE_screen_format:
I vaguely recollect that the seats were indeed quite comfortable by the standards of the day, and maybe they were indeed upholstered in blue.
I don’t recall any major presentation gaffs (such as failing to switch to the anamorphic lens), I think all the auditoria I visited had moveable masking, but not sure if tabs were installed.
As I said above, though, even the THX certified auditoria were more or less run of the mill, e.g. in terms of sound quality.
Doing a quick search on the relevant local authority site, I can’t find any plans among various planning applications, and the licensing database doesn’t include them.
Looking at aerial images taken before the recent extension was built, I’d guess the IMAX screen is no more than 60ft. wide.
The proliferation of formats each with their own pros and cons is frustrating but it’s not unique in featuring both an “own brand” PLF screen as well as an IMAX—and Bluewater has a very high footfall of relatively affluent visitors presumably providing a steady supply of patrons willing to pay for premium tickets!
Showcase Cinema de Lux Bluewater Unveils Four New State-of-the-Art Screens – Inside Kent Magazine.
According to the above linked article, all four of these auditoria are equipped with laser projection and Dolby Atmos, and feature recliner seating.
One of them is an “XPlus,” Showcase Cinemas' premium large format brand, with an approx. 64ft. wide by 27ft. high screen.
That was quick!
First performance is “Solo: A Star Wars Story” at 11:40am.
Maybe they’ve eliminated the back row as the licensing plans (for the original Empire fit-out) show 14 seats in the last row with no space to spare, whilst the new seating arrangement has 15 seats.
(The auditorium narrows to the back with an angled right sidewall, the space being used for access to Screen 5 (formerly 7.))
If that’s the case then were they to lose another couple of seats, this would enable the left sidewall to be altered, thereby creating a symmetrical auditorium. Alas, I doubt Cineworld are thinking in terms of symmetrical rear array speaker layouts in a small auditorium!
Look forward to updates on the “flies inside projector box” situation. ;–)
P.S. Forgot to ask — how was the picture and sound quality in the refurbished Screen 1?