Radio City Music Hall

What a place! Just going to the restroom was an artistic experience. In 1950 I saw a sneak preview of Marlon Brando's first movie, "The Men," at Radio City.

Just a note to let you know how much I appreciated the hospitality shown to me Sat. 11/24. Since I ordered my tickets through the Polish American Citizens Club of Hadley last July, my back problem has gotten worse. An usher by the name of Ken Adell saw my plight, helped me up 2 steps and told me & my wife to wait there. About a minute later, he came back with a wheel chair and the rest is history. Unbelievable hospitality, especially with all the people you had to put up with. Ken actually went out of his way to help me. PLEASE, thank him for me. I first started going to the Christmas shows in 1947.

In the 1950's I saw Doris Day and James Cagney in Love Me Or Leave Me plus a stage show featuring the Rockettes. You could sit anywhere you liked and stay as long as you wanted.

Radio City had an Art Deco exposition in 1975. It was wonderful. SO many vendors selling all SORTS of Deco items. I still have the poster from the show. In the theatre, they played the original black and white movie "King Kong" which I believe premiered there in 1933?

I remember standing in line as a small child with my grandfather at Christmas time to see whatever movie happened to be playing along with the Rockettes Holiday show. There used to be a big Easter Show as well. Those lines would wind down 50th street and then turn into Rockefeller Plaza zig-zag back and forth like those ridiculous queues in Disney World during peak periods. Having been to Radio City years before I ever set foot in a theme park, I had never experienced the like before. I still have the souvenir program for what was to have been the final movie presentation at Radio City (a Prince and the Pauper story entitled "Crossed Swords") back in 1978. Luckily, I never peeled off the "Final Attraction" sticker affixed to the front cover, even though the closing of the theater (temporary as it would be) wound up being delayed and at least one or two other features played there before it was reborn as a concert and special event venue.

The last fillm to play there was "The Promise", starring Kathleen Quinlan.

The Music hall was one of the few theatres to install VistaVision projectors for the engagement of "White Christmas" in 1954.

I worked at the Music Hall as an usher during the Easter Show in '76. The film was Robin and Marian and even Pauling Kael was wondering what this was doing as a holiday film at Radio City. This while That's Entertainment II(which should have been at the Music Hall) was playing a few blocks away at the Ziegfeld. At this point the stage show was a shadow of its former self and an embarrassment to all. It's unfortunate that the present owners see no need to show films or resurrect the stage shows of Markert and Leonidoff(The Undersea and Rhapsody in Blue ballets were sensational.) The current Christmas show has no relation to what they did except for the Rockettes. The Living Nativity is a joke and deserves a big fat Bronx cheer from believers and non-believers alike. The original Nativity pageant was a Renaissance painting come to life.

I went to the MUSIC HALL many times through the 1950's, 60's, and 70's. I still have many of the programs throughout those decades.
I and many friends signed petitions to save the theatre back in 1978. I was there on the evening that was suppose to be the final
show, It was a benefit performance for the Vairety CLub Foundatrion of New York.(April 18, 1978) Happily, the theatre was saved. S.L."Roxy" Rothafel,father of the movie palace, got the idea for the
"SUNBURST" stage when watching the sun setting while aboard a ship.

The Music Hall was originally intended for "live" stage presentations only, but the first program, which lasted over four hours on opening night (December 27,1932), was such a fiasco that the management closed the theatre briefly until a new policy of a first-run feature movie with a one-hour stage show could be installed. This was to the detriment of the Music Hall's sibling, The New Roxy (soon re-named The Center), which was intended from its opening to present a movie with a stage show. The best pictures would go to the Music Hall and the New Roxy got the leftovers. The cost of operating two theatres with stage shows also became prohibitive in those Depression times, so the New Roxy switched to straight movies for several years and was then converted to stage plays and ice shows.

Quite right Warren, in fact movies playing at Radio City and Roxy were exclusive and no other theatre within a 100 miles could play those films at the same time. I also heard, but not sure of the fact, that "King Kong" was so big when it opened that it played at both theatres continuously. I knew someone who had been a projectionist at the hall during the 50s and 60s, when 3 or sometimes even 4 projectionists were on duty at all times running the four,later to become five, projectors. The film presentaion there was always perfect.

If you look at the entry for the Center Theatre, you will find my description of the dual opening of "King Kong" at the Rockefeller Center theatres. Incredibly, both supported the movie with a stage show entitled "Jungle Drums," though the one at the Center was less spectacular because it had a smaller stage and fewer performers and musicians than at the MH.

Thanks Warren, my only memory of the Roxy is post 1953 after the Cinemascope engagement of "The Robe" which was followed by a string of Fox Cinemascope films, Fox played all the big ones there with the smaller films going to the Paramount. Most if not all the Roxy stage shows, as I recall, were on ice, and yes I recall the stage was cosiderably smaller than the Hall. They now have tours of the great Music Hall, which includes backstage, if you are in New York it's a must see.

There sems to be a bit of confusion in my mind regarding the Roxy and the Center theatres I am thinking perhaps they were not the same. Having lived in New York all my life I remember the Roxy all thru the 50s and60s but not the center. Weren't they two different theatres? THe Roxy is the theatre that presented Cinemascope for the first time and played ice shows on stage, not the Center. I think the Center was demolished to make way for what later became Rockefeller Center and NBC had their TV studios there. Can anyone clear this up.

The Roxy was at the northeast corner of Seventh Avenue & 50th Street. where the former entrance is now occupied by some fast food restaurants including Thank God It's Friday. When the founder of the Roxy left to take over the management of the two new theatres at Rockefeller Center, the smaller of the two, on the east side of Sixth Avenue at 48th Street, was christened the New Roxy, but the owners of the original Roxy filed a legal complaint and the New Roxy was re-named the Center Theatre. The original Roxy never at any time changed its name and was known as the Roxy until demolition. You may remember a famous Life Magazine photo of Gloria Swanson standing in the ruins of the Roxy. Her movie, "The Loves of Sunya," was the first to be shown at the Roxy when it opened in March, 1927. "Roxy" was originally the nickname of its founder, Samuel L. Rothafel (sometimes spelled Rothaphel), who was a pioneer in the presentation of stage shows with movies. Walter W. Ahlshlager was architect of the Seventh Avenue Roxy, which stood next to the Taft Hotel and had an auditorium built at a diagonal to the entrance in order to accommodate 6,000 seats on such a limited parcel of land...The stage shows at the original Roxy were similar to those at the Music Hall, built around a theme ("Spring Fever," for example), and using a resident company of entertainers and musicians rather than hiring new ones for each show. Early in the 1940s, the Roxy switched to "name" headliners for its stage shows, and many big stars and jazz/dance orchestras performed there (together with movies, of course)...Meanwhile, the New Roxy on Sixth Avenue, now re-named the Center, shifted from movie/stage house to movies only and then to "legit" musicals before finding a successful policy in ice-skating shows. They continued until about 1949-50, when the Center was converted to an NBC television studio. By that time, the original Roxy's stage shows weren't much different from the variety programs that could be seen on TV, so the theatre decided to copy the Center's success. Most of the Roxy's stage was converted to a skating rink which had special lighting beneath it that could change into all the colors of the rainbow. I believe that the movie/ice show policy continued until the 1953 premiere of "The Robe," when the new wide-screen process of CinemaScope seened to rule out the need for a stage show as well. But after a few more CinemaScope movies, the novelty wore off and the Roxy resumed ice shows as part of the program.

That is how I remember things as well, thanks Warren for clearing all that up. I believe the original Center was built back in 1914

Vito, what "original" Center do you mean? The Center (ex-New Roxy) in Rockefeller Center was built in 1931-32. I don't recall any other Manhattan theatres known as the Center except the New York City Center on West 55th Street, which was originally a Shriners temple built in the 1920s.

Sorry Warren, I was refering to the Center theatre on B'way built in 1914 which I believe Roxy managed but did not build.

What would be great is if the Music Hall would have a summer stage show much as it had years ago for the tourists and as it now how has at Christmas in the style of Markert and Leonidoff. I'm sure that many people are still around who were a part of this and would remember the stagings.The settings and costumes exist in designs in theater collections and photos.(I remember the landing on the moon from the '69 Christmas show and I understand in '59 with The Nun's Story they burned Nome, Alaska 4 times a day.
In between they could show a classic film that played at the Hall like King Kong, Swing Time, North by Norwest or The Music Man which would look unlike anything people see on DVD. They could change the film every week keeping the stage spectacle the same throughout the summer due to costs. Why should we only get the Rockettes at Christmas? They are still as great as ever.

That would be wonderful vincent, I would be there every week, in my favorite seat, front row in the first balcony. As for movies, I don't understand why the Hall never shows them anymore. What a magnificent experience for all the young people who have to endure a movie sitting in a tiny multiplex and have never experienced seeing a movie in a theatre like RCMH. The last time I believe a movie was shown there at all was back in 2002 with a special 40th anniversary presentation of "West Side Story" I believe the same was done for the 50th anniversaty of "Singin In The Rain" We should, all of us, write the management and suggest something like a movie now and then accompanied by a stage show.

Would love to see a film and stage show presentation again. I remember waiting in line for 3 hours to see the 1958 Christmas show when "Auntie Mame" was playing. Still have the Showplace magazine they use to hand out. I also remember in the spring of 1975 they kept the same stage show and changed the film. It was great seeing Gone With The Wind and Singin' In The Rain on the big screen. They also played 2001: A Space Odyssey and Doctor Zhivago during that engagement.

I have never seen anything like Radio City Music Hall. Who can imagine a stage on hydrolics either going up and down in three different places, on three different levels or rotating in circles with the Rockettes' legs a-kicking? My lower jaw drops when I go into this place.

I remember that year of the MGM revivals that p7350 mentioned, I went to see all of them. When I was in college in 1979-80 they were presenting morning musicals for a few months on that awesome screen.

I remember that as well. I saw Funny Face, Seven Brides, and Flower Drum Song during that period. Boy did they look great in the Music Hall. The cinemscope screen was the largest I had ever seen.I could only envy the original audiences for whom those films and that type of presentation were an every day occurrence. As casual as going to the multiplex for most people today.

I also recall a few summers ago there was a Universal festival one night a week for a month. I managed to catch Psyco.

Recalling the long lines that people used to wait on to get in to see a film at Radio City I was told by a long time usher, who had been there since The Miracle in '59, that the longest that he could remember was for "A Boy Named Charlie Brown." One amazing Saturday people who had gotten there at 11AM only got in at 7PM. I always wondered if this was true or simply a Music Hall legend.

Radio City Music Hall went into decline in the late 60's and the 1970's for various reasons. The Music Hall always had the top class A films available to them from the 1930's thru 1967. The Music Hall then had trouble getting good G rated films to go along with there stage shows. Then the Music Hall would play many films that weren't very good such as The Promise and 1776. The Music Hall STARTED to loose money in the Fall and the months following The Christmas show and the months following The Easter Show. To stem the loss the Music Hall would close down there film and stage show during some of the slower months to reduce the red ink. I think a summer stage show along with classic films from all decades that would include the Rockettes is a wonderful idea. Maybe a corpoarate sponser could help fund the summer show if needed. If the Music Hall had a major concert the summer show could be dark that day. I feel the Music Hall has yet to reach its full potential. Cablevision bring back the stage and film presentation on a limited time such as summer when a lot of tourists are in town. brucec

Yes Bruce I often went to the Music Hall in the early '70's and the films were dreadful(1776 and Mame which should have been perfect Music Hall product were pretty awful.) Occasionally they got lucky like a What's Up Doc but that was pretty rare. Films were being made during that period that would have been suitable such as the That's Entertainment films, The Way We Were and Prisoner of Second Av. The Hollywood producers of the era did not want to give the Music Hall their product despite the fact that their opening engagements in NY had less seats than the Music Hall. The low budget stage shows did not help. If you see some of the color photos of the stage shows from the 50's you'll know why the Music Hall had what was called the Great Stage. It may not have been art but it must have been a helluva lot of fun and very impressive. The Music Hall with its concerts today is pretty much being wasted. Leonidoff knew how to use the stage and its settings to maximum effect. For the Christmas show today it just seems to be lights on, lights off, stage up, stage down. I can't imagine the producers there today using any imagination or showmanship. These people can only see what's at the end of their noses. That's why they have these positions and make the big bucks. As well, the Music hall today is reduced to having kiddie shows like Barney and The Rug Rats. What would Roxy have thought?

I remember an engagement of "The Magic of Lassie" in 1978 which starred James Stewart, Mickey Rooney and the first appearance in 20 years of Alice Faye. The theatre was packed almost to capacity. They had Lassie on stage 5x a day with The Rockettes. It may have been corny but was alot of fun.

Yes Vincent, the lines for the holiday shows were rather long, I would think a 3 hour wait for the Christmas show was not usual.
In 1954 when "White Christmas" played the Music Hall and
"There's no buisness like show buisness" was down the block to the Roxy, a lot of people spent a great deal of time on line, ah those were the days

Just think when Random Harvest(one of my all time favorites and yes I know the film doesn't make much sense)opened as the Christmas show in '42 it played until March of '43. If MGM hadn't pulled it they probably could have kept it running until the summer.

By the way I believe, though the name is not mentioned, Random Harvest is the film Holden sees at the Music Hall in Catcher in the Rye.

Prior to the introduction of CinemaScope and other wide screen systems, the Music Hall's projection sometimes switched to a Magnascopic lens for a single spectacular scene in a movie. Two that I recall are the animal stampede in "King Solomon's Mines" and the train wreck in "The Greatest Show on Earth." The screen enlarged in size as the black masking around it diminished, and then returned to normal when the scene was over.

Warren, the way I understand it, the Magnascope lens was a wide angle lens, about 7" that increased the size of the picture dramatically but also increased some of the grain, but was fine for projecting a special event in a movie such as the train wreck in "The Greatest Show on Earth" which was on a reel by itself and a changeover (remember those?)was made to one of the projectors installed with the Magna lens. Magnascope was actually invented back in the 20s and installed at New York's Rivoli theatre in 1926 for the engagement of "Old Ironsides" It was billed as "The biggest screen in the world"

The "Magnascope" lens was used mainly by the larger first-run theatres that had screens big enough to accommodate it. Since it required both a projectionist and a backstage technician to adjust the masking around the screen, it was reserved for the most spectacular movies. Two neighborhood theatres in Queens, NY, that had "Magnascope" were Loew's Valencia in Jamaica and Century's Bliss in Sunnyside.

My parents are always talking about how the Valencia in it's day was like seeing a movie in Manhattan. I guess if they had something that few theatres had back then like "Magnascope" it must have been special.

When the Music Hall started showing classics in the mornings at 11AM for a brief time in the late seventies(as discussed above) they showed some of the films in the ratio 1:33(I believe it is) in Magnascope. I saw Showboat and Good News like this. Though the screen was large the grain was pretty bad. When I saw Singing in the Rain however in '75 the screen was surprisingly small(like a postage stamp as an usher there remarked) but the technicolor was astounding. I've never seen it more magnificently presented, like a brilliant jewel against plush black velvet.

The '75 screening was probably in the original 1:33 ratio, that's why it seemed so small (at least in comparison to wide-screen presentations at the RCMH).

By the way, the presention of Rain was so wonderful in fact that Vincent Canby wrote a piece about it in the Sunday Art's and Leisure section at the time which you can read if you have access in a library to the microfilm archives of the New York Times.

I remember that engagement they ran Gone With The Wind and Dr. Zhivago that year also, it was an MGM revivial year. Does anyone remember the hoopla the time the Regency got a new IB technicolor print of "The Gangs All Here"? Carmen Miranda & Alice Faye in Technicolor so rich it dripped off the screen :)

Yes, in response to Vito's questions in February, there WERE two theaters...the Roxy and the New Roxy which quickly was renamed the Center. The Center Theater was the sister theater of Radio City Music Hall...built around the same time as RCMH and operated by RKO as well. It wobbled around a lot....from movie theater to legitimate theater. The stage show of THE GREAT WALTZ played there as well as other massive extravaganzas. But it was so huge (though slightly smaller than RCMH) that it had difficulty competing financially. In the forties it became home of the ice shows you remember....for about ten years. HOWDY, MR. ICE, that kind of thing, etc. In the early 50's it became an NBC radio and television studio. THE BIG SHOW with Tallulah Bankhead was broadcast from there....and the BUICK BERLE HOUR, some of YOUR SHOW OF SHOWS, some LUCKY STRIKE HIT PARADES, and some FOUR STAR REVIEWS among others were telecast from there.....and then, what a shame...by the mid 50's....it was gone forever. A great loss.

yes he has and your point?

Brilliant Michael, you are fool for this April and any other time of the year!!!!!!

Well actually Sinatra played there just recently, yes I know he's dead but he performed anyway. Anyone see that show or know anything about the process used to create it?

I hope some Cablevision executives are looking at these comments. It would be so great to have classic films at the Music Hall again. When they had the week of WB classics a few years ago, they advertised it as the First Annual Radio City Classic Film Festival. The Friday night showing of "The Exorcist", hosted by Ellen Burstyn and William Friedkin, was a complete sell-out and a real blast. Then the next year they showed films from Universal: "Psycho", "Jaws", and "Animal House" all played to 5,000+ people. Unfortunately, there haven't been any showings since then, and the recent 40th anniversary showing of "West Side Story" was invitation-only and not open to the public. Why not give the people what they want (and make lots of money besides) and do something like the Classic Film Festivals every year?

Vincent, I waited many hours to see "A Boy Named Charlie Brown" in January 1970. It was a Friday and I don't remember the exact length of time, but it definitely took most of an entire day to get in. We got there in the morning and it was dark outside when we came out (and it was a very short movie).

The operating "nut" for RCMH is too high to show revivals of old movies. The management makes more money from renting it out for concerts and conducting sightseeing tours. In yesterday's New York Times, they were already advertising the next Christmas Spectacular, which runs from November 4th through January 2nd. Curiously, though the ad gave a full calendar of performances, no ticket prices were mentioned.

I still think if done properly the classic film series along with the Rockettes and stage show could be a big draw. Did you know that I was looking at theatre grosses and found that the Detroit Fox has out grossed the Music Hall the last few years. The Detroit Fox has better bookings and even has The Radio City spectacular during the Holidays. This tells me that the Music Hall is not being used to its full potential. The Fox in Detroit,St Louis, and Atlanta also has film in there programming mix. The Music Hall on its big Screen could show films like Titanic, Gladiator,Funny Girl, Oliver, The Longest Day, Pillow Talk, Dr. Zhivago, 2001 , Planet of The Apes, Star Wars, The King and I, Anastasia, To Catch A Thief, The Sundowners, Charade, The Sound of Music. Patton, Magnificient Men in Flying Machines, How The West Was Won, A Star is Born, Lawrence of Arabia, The Ten Commandments, Bridge on The River Kwai, The Odd Couple, Giant, El Cid, Goldfinger, Chitty, Chitty Bang Bang, No Business Like Show Business, The Bandwagon, How To Marry a Millionaire , Auntie Mame, Ivanhoe, The Time Machine, Day The Earth Stood Still, Out of Africa, Close Encounters, E.T., Its a MAd Mad World, North By Northwest, Gigi, My Fair Lady etc just to name a few. Make the presentation of these features a big Event that can't be duplicated on TV and the Megaplex on the Music Hall Giant Screen.Note I focused on the Wide Screen Movies.I think this could be a big draw if done correctly plus the stage show.Brucec

This is so amazing that the Music Hall has already started selling the Christmas show in mid April. It now take them almost a year to sell seats for this thing and then they end up giving away thousands of tickets through the Daily News or the Post. Maybe this is because people are sick of the same lame production numbers and the same children's TV show sets and costumes every year. Except for the Rockettes this is amateur night on a grand scale.
Bruce I love your list but can we throw in a few RKO classics?

Whats shocking is the top ticket price for the golden circle is over $100. The last movie Chjristmas show was still only $5 now inflation has note gone up that much since 1979.

The overcharging for the Christmas show wouldn't be so bad if it helped subsidize some classic movies being shown. And like I said before, the audience is out there. What a thrill it was to see "Psycho" in a theater that size with not an empty seat to be had.

Well, you got a movie and a stage show for that five bucks. Which is what you paid for a first run movie at the time. Now a top movie is 10.25. So we've got a little over a 100% increase. So lets do the math. How much did the cost of the Music Hall Christmas show ticket go up? And they use the same production every year!

I recall my first trip to the Music Hall, age 7, to see "That Touch of Mink" with Doris Day and Cary Grant. The ticket price was 99 cents if you sat in the balcony before noon. Talk about your bargains.

Not only is the production the same every year, they are paying no film rental out to a film company.

Well look at the price of a Broadway show back in the 70's, it was around $15-20 for a ticket. Now it is around $80-100+ for a top show. The cost to put a live show has gone up so high because of All the people you have to pay. The Music Hall is a Union shop, so you have the stage hands, lighting, sound, orchestra, dancers, ushers, security, concessions, box office personnel, managers. So if your selling out 6-7 live shows a day. That uses the theatre to the fullest. So if you place a 90-120 minute movie with the show, that would make a better show package for the price. But the company Cablevision knows it could sell out the live show more than the movie. And you could add more shows and make more money. As for concerts it could be booked better. Depends may be on the artist. Because the Beacon is a medium sized theatre and has a good booking history. The Music Hall is a classic, but is a little large for some artists. The Garden get all the giant shows because of the size. You might have to play 3-4 night at the Music Hall for one night at the Garden. So the cost of putting on the show or shows is a factor.
I would love to show films return to the Music Hall in some form.

Remember sometime in the 70's the Music Hall was going to closed because it was not making any money. But they found away to keep it going.

From the 1940s until the movie/stage policy ended, RCMH got a special deal on film rentals from the distributors. I can't recall the exact details, but for the first two or three weeks of the engagement, the distributor got only a small percentage of the gross to enable RCMH to recoup the cost of the stage shows. After that, the distributor's percentage of the weekly gross increased sharply, I think to a maximum of 60% of the takings.

Today the main cost is labor to put on a live show and maintain the theatre. Today the distributor's percentage of the weekly gross is 90% and works it way down for following weeks of the engagement.

What about for rental on film classics? Do they work the same way?
Would they charge the same for Singin' in the Rain as they would for the new Kidman movie?

Normally with classics its a sliding scale around 35-40% but theres usually a guarantee.

It depends on what type of screening. Like if it's a one time festival screening or a theatre booking the as a filler or midnight. The rental might be, say a flat fee rental plus a percentage of the box office. We ran a few pictures with booked from MGM and Warner. They charged depending on title $125-150 flat fee + Box office percentage. While Warner charged $500 + box office percentage. Or what the studio wants to charge for the booking. Those numbers look small in size. But it depends on how much you want tickets to be and what is the cost of running a film in a large theatre as the Music Hall. Look at your payroll: Projectionists, Managers, Ushers, concessions, security, box office personel and maybe a stagehand.
Over at Loew's Jersey City Theatre it's a different. The people over there are volunteers and the Friends of the Jersey City are a non-profit company. So the studios might give them a break in fees.

Actually in the days when I was in the theatre business I found that the studios were usually generous when you needed a print for a fund-raiser or for a charitable organization. Sometimes all they charged you for was a shipping charge, or at the most a flat $100.

For many years, the Music Hall operated an underground boxoffice for the convenience of those arriving by subway at the 50th Street-Rockefeller Center station of the IND line. The boxoffice was located at the NW end of the shopping arcade beneath Rockfeller Center. If a performance sold out, the boxoffice would close and you had to join the waiting line upstairs on 50th Street. After purchasing your ticket underground, you entered a lobby that connected to the theatre's downstairs lounge and checkroom. Enroute, a doorman cut your ticket and handed you the stub.

My first travel to New york was decided after receiving a post card with the picture of the radio city music hall in 1981.
Two weeks later i was waking up in a Time Square hotel and after a short walk i discovered the facade of the radio city and took a ticket for a tour .Of course i was amazed by the grandeur of the place,and the day after i had my ticket for "America" the summer show.
I had heard so much about these shows but it was far more what i imagined.Entering the stalls the pipe organ sound gave me such an emotion that i was near to cry and everything was exactly what i dreamed before.i saw the show twice that summer.
Years later i saw the Christmas show with the same pleasure and i hope a future travel will give me the opportunity to see the result or the restoration.The Radio City music hall of NY and the Tuchinski in Amsterdam are the most beautifull theatres i know.

Bill..I saw Psycho, Jaws and The Sting at the Music Hall in 97. It was awesome. The year before, I saw Bonnie and Clyde. I thought they'd have a yearly festival too, but I guess gave in to the demands of MTV and the hiphop youth culture. I can't believe they didn't make money on the flicks, as they were all sellouts and a success.

Many of the comments here maintain that BIG shows on stage will certainly bring back the big audiences and maybe could be combined with films, vintage or current. Sad to say, none of this works today from the standpoint of the operators of RCMH. Times have changed; theatres are no longer temples of amusement, and movies and shows are not produced by impassioned impresarios. Today everything is controlled by conglomerates which own the studios, film distributors, and often the theatre operators. A conglomerate is not interested one little bit in the nature of what it owns or its history; they exist solely for the acquisition of MONEY and all the power that comes from more and more MONEY. As one previous post said, the 'nut' (total operating expenses) for RCMH is too large to permit much more that the least expensive fare the management is able to find, and that fare must be so inexpensive to allow the ultimate owners, the conglomerates, to get as much PROFIT as possible, since that is their raison d'être. The Music Hall and thousands of other businesses are simply pawns in the international competition of one conglomerate to another to gain market dominance, and thus more power and MONEY, the real god of most people today. Shed a tear for our theatres and showmanship heritage, for less and less of it will remain in our future filled with ever increasing greed, corporate and personal. As God's word the Bible says at 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things…"

That's very sad, Jim, but I'm sure you're right. It sounds like all the dire predictions about corporations that Paddy Chayefsky made in NETWORK have come to pass.

Jim, you should go to the Lafayette theater in Suffern NY, they show classic movies on the big screen, it's an old vaudeville style single screen movie house and the owmers love movies, they put on quite a presentation. Go to...bigscreenclassics.com

Rhett brings out a good point: in some smaller locations, it is possible for a non-greedy owner to put on successful shows and vintage films and still keep the theatre alive, but that option is gone for megalopolises such as New York City. In such places the property values and attendant taxes upon them are so huge as to make any enterprise strain at the need to bring in the maximum possible dollars per square foot, and believe me when I say that every theatre is calculated as being worth so many dollars per square foot in income. Overarching greed is everywhere, but some places such as NYC are so unfortunate as to have a business climate that does not much allow any property to be 'marginal' as to profits. I hope the LAFAYETTE continues in its success, but I am afraid that it cannot be easily transported to the much, much larger Gotham.

You nkow, they have remastered and are releasing Around World in 80 days to DVD this month or next. I'm wondering if any of the big theaters are planning a special engagement screening. It won't be in Cinerama, that's for sure, but wouldn't it be grand if RCMH, or Zeigfeld or Astor Plaza played the film...I doubt they will though. It would interfere with the Will Smith flick.....oh well

"Around the World in 80 Days" was not a Cinerama film, it was the second Todd-AO feature. It would've been nice engagement over at the Rivoli Theatre. It opened at the Rivoli on Oct. 17th 1956 and ran Roadshow till Oct. 5th, 1958 for a total of 113 weeks.

Is that possible? Did it really run that long? I thought the record breaker there was the Sound of Music which I believe was 88 weeks which the theater wanted to keep longer and Fox pulled it to put in Sand Pebbles(Made strangely enough in Panavision and not in Todd AO.I'd love to know why.)

What house did they move the Sound of Music to when it left The Rivoli?

Here are a few of the 70MM Roadshow engagements for Times Square area.
(List not by date)
"Oklahoma" at the Rivoli (51 weeks)
"Around the World in 80 Days" at the Rivoli (113 weeks)
"Can Can" at the Rivoli
"Cleopatra" at the Rivoli
"Sound of Music" at the Rivoli
"Star" at the Rivoli
"Hello Dolly" at the Rivoli
"The Big Fisherman" at the Rivoli
"West Side Story" at the Rivoli
"The Last Valley" at the Rivoli
"South Pacific" (open Criterion for 29 weeks, move-over Rivoli for 25 weeks more.)
"My Fair Lady" at the Criterion
"Agony and the Ectasy" at the State
"Ben-Hur" at the State
"Mutiny on the Bounty" at the State
"King of Kings" at the State
"Chitty Chitty, Bang Bang" at the State 2
"Porgy and Bess" at the Warner
"Greatest Story Ever Told" at the Warner
"Battle of the Bulge" at the Warner
"Exodus" at the Warner
"How the West Was Won" at the Warner
"Hallelujah Trail" (premired at the Warner)opened at the Capital
"Spartacus" at the DeMille
"Those Magnificent Men in there Flying Machines" at the DeMille
"2001" at the Capital
"Grand Prix" at the Warner
"Airport" at the Radio City Music Hall (1st 70MM film)
"Krakatoa, East of Java" at the Warner
"Song of Norway" at the Warner

Those are just a few of the original 70MM Roadshow films that played in the Time Square area over the years.

Vincent
You might find the answer about why "The Sand Pebbles" was not a Todd-AO film in the documentary about the making of "The Sound of Music" in Special Edition DVD. I think Robert Wise talked alittle about it. Right before the engagement of "The Sand Pebbles" United Artists Theatre installed the D-150 screen into the Rivoli Theatre.
But the only two D-150 films were booked into other Times Square theatres. "Patton" opened at the Criterion Theatre and "The Bible" opened at the Loew's State Theatre.

I could have sworn I saw Patton at The Rivoli?

To add to William's excellent list, here are a few more Times Square roadshows from the final years of the roadshow era:

"Funny Girl" at the Criterion
"Oliver!" at Loew's State 1
"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" at Loew's State 2
"Star!" at the Rivoli
"Tora! Tora! Tora!" at the Criterion
"Nicholas and Alexandra" at the Criterion
"Fiddler on the Roof" at the Rivoli

What do Times Square roadshows have to do with Radio City Music Hall? To the best of my knowledge, RCMH was never a "roadshow" house. The movies and accompanying stage shows were presented continuously, and at "popular prices." The only reserved seats sold were for the first mezzanine.

Warren this is correct. The current Radio City owneres haven't even tested the viability of a limited stage and screen series during the summer. There could be a cross promotion between Cablevisions AMC movie channel and Radio City. Is the Disney Company the only distibutor left that knows a little bit about showmanship take a look at the small scale stage and screen at the El Capitan in Hollywood. Since the distributors make more money on DVD's than the theatical run of the movie the Music Hall could be used for the new releases of classics and newer films as part of there promotion.Its amazing to me that two of the most successful movie palaces of all times Radio City and the Chicago Theatre are not being utilized to there full potential.The Music Hall could even be used for 1 week on the release of a new film such as Troy, Spiderman,Harry Potter,Alexander,Phantom of the Opera etc.This could be done without the stage show if necessary,because the distributor would want 90 per cent of the Box Office after the house expense. The point is the current owner Cablevision needs to try different things some may work and some may not.brucec

Brucec makes an excellent point here. In 1989, the first New York showing of "The Abyss" was at the Music Hall, for one night only, and it looked like every seat was taken.

Warren, sorry for going off-topic and off-theater so much, but I think the Music Hall was used for a roadshow attraction at least once, and recently too: "The Lion King" in 1994. I remember having to order tickets in advance. Not technically a real roadshow, I guess, but close.

Well I think now it's time for a comprehensive list of all theaters in NY, their hardticket films and dates of opening and closing and the date when a film at same theater(if this being the case) switched to continuous performances.
Please list under this page of the Astor Plaza.

Did everyone hear movies will be returning to the Music Hall this summer !!!!!!!!!! It was in yesterdays daily news. I am not thrilled with some of the films they mentioned, where are the epics????

Robert, I read the Daily News every day, but did not see the story. Could you please post details, and price scale if you know it. RCMH's website does not have any information, nor does Ticketmaster, which lists RCMH's schedule of events for entire summer and beyond.

On the front page of this site under Theatre News it reported that movies were coming to the Music Hall, but Tarrytown, NY. They have the article from the "Journal News", Westchester. On June 25-27, a series of films return to that screen. "Cinema Paradiso", "Some Like It Hot", "Being John Malkovich" and "The Wizard of Oz".

Donald Deskey was the architect and interior designer of Radio City Music Hall. "Roxy" Rothafel was only the theatre's managing director, though he did oversee the project after persuading Rockefeller Center to pay for it.

Under the list of Roadshows they list Airport, but this was really a moveover from the Warner Cinerama. Was it really roadshow even at the Warner? Also Didnt Mary Poppins play roadshow except in New York where it opeded at the Music Hall?

"Airport" was not given a true Roadshow release be Universal. It was one of the last features tobe filmed in 65mm. It got major showcased release.

Airport opened at the Music Hall not at the Warner.Except for a few films in the 30's the Music Hall always opened a film in NY until the mid 70's.(Though they probably should have taken 2nd run a few roadshow films like Gigi and Millie.)

The Music Hall was relatively late in installing 70MM projection equipment because of the necessity of accommodating the stage show that accompanied the film. The Music Hall show always ran between two and three hours including the stage show which varied in length depending on the length of the feature. Since the initial 70MM attractions were all Roadshow presentations, it was felt that they were too long to be played at the Music Hall. Then in 1970 Ross Hunter, the producer of "Airport" insisted that film be shown at the Hall in 70MM. The Music Hall would run two other 70MM featuresthat year "Darling Lili" and "Scrooge". Since 1970 approximately twenty-two features have had 70MM presentation at the Hall, either as part of the movie.stage show policy or as premieres and special presentations. The screen at the Music Hall is 69 1/2' x 34 1/2'. The regular 35mm 1.85 ratio use is 48' x 26' and the 70MM Full screen is 69' x 31' and spherical 70MM (1.85 blow-up) is 63' x 34'.
The size of the auditorium presents a number of unique projection problems. Often prints are tailored to the theatre. This usually means printing them a little lighter in density to increse the apparent light on the screen. since the projection throw is about 185' to the screen, if the sound is in sync with the picture at the screen it is four frames out-of-sync at the back of the third mezzanine.

The Music Hall was relatively late in installing 70MM projection equipment because of the necessity of accommodating the stage show that accompanied the film. The Music Hall show always ran between two and three hours including the stage show which varied in length depending on the length of the feature. Since the initial 70MM attractions were all Roadshow presentations, it was felt that they were too long to be played at the Music Hall. Then in 1970 Ross Hunter, the producer of "Airport" insisted that film be shown at the Hall in 70MM. The Music Hall would run two other 70MM featuresthat year "Darling Lili" and "Scrooge". Since 1970 approximately twenty-two features have had 70MM presentation at the Hall, either as part of the movie.stage show policy or as premieres and special presentations. The screen at the Music Hall is 69 1/2' x 34 1/2'. The regular 35mm 1.85 ratio use is 48' x 26' and the 70MM Full screen is 69' x 31' and spherical 70MM (1.85 blow-up) is 63' x 34'.
The size of the auditorium presents a number of unique projection problems. Often prints are tailored to the theatre. This usually means printing them a little lighter in density to increse the apparent light on the screen. since the projection throw is about 185' to the screen, if the sound is in sync with the picture at the screen it is four frames out-of-sync at the back of the third mezzanine.

William what is the size of the of the cinemascope screen? From what I remember from seeing 7 Brides there in the late 70's it is larger than the 70mm screen. Also was Darling Lillie a blow up like Scrooge or real 70mm? Blow-ups never looked good at the Music Hall. Both Scrooge and Tom Sawyer were somewhat grainy and washed out but Airport in Todd AO with those old fashioned glossy Ross Hunter production values looked sensational.

I was saddened by reading that the vast stage of RCMH is being turned into a basketball court for games by the NY Liberty team in July and September...For most of the summer, the theatre will be closed except for "backstage" tours and nine concerts or special events (including the Tony Awards telecast on June 6th, which is not open to the public).

This is another example of NY theatres not being respected. This is one of the most degrading things to ever happen at The Music Hall. ANyways how can basketball be played on a stage>?

The scope screen is 69' x 31' and full ratio 70MM screen is 69' x 34'. I was typing to fast on that post. All three films "Darling Lili", "Scrooge" and "Tom Sawyer" were all 70MM blow-ups. "Airport" looked fantastic on the big screen.

How do people who make these decisions get their jobs?
I assume they're recruited from the FBI and the CIA. Nothing else seems to explain such waste and staggering incompetency.

Basketball can be played anywhere if you have a flat space large enough to accommodate it. During the Depression, many large neighborhood theatres booked basketball games on stage during slow nights of the week.

But this is the height of the tourist season in July!
Considering how the Music Hall is used now I guess Andrew Stein's idea of turning it into the NY stock exchange back in the 70's wasn't much different.

But this is the height of the tourist season in July!
Considering how the Music Hall is used now I guess Andrew Stein's idea of turning it into the NY stock exchange back in the 70's wasn't much different.

I was very interested in Williams notes about the Hall's 70mm presentations. I knew the 35mm prints were made a little lighter because I worked at Deluxe labs in New York during that time. I believe before Dolby came along many 35mm prints were struck with magnetic stereo tracks and although after 1960 such prints were hard to come by, Radio City still played a lot of films in 35mm 4 track magnetic. Anyone know more about this?

Has anyone ben in the Music Halls projection booth lately? I visited the booth several years ago when there were five projectors,
three Simplex 35/70 with Dolby Digital capability as well as magnetic penthouses, and two Simplex XL 35mm with optical capability only. There were no platters, thankfully, although I was told that "Lion King" was presented in 70mm, but not with standard 70mm six track magnetic sound, a seperate 35mm Dolby Digital sound print was interlocked using platters. What is in the booth today?

I saw Casablanca here during a film festival a few years ago, and the image seemed small to me, considering the space available, and the sound was terrible. It was all echoes and tinny, and if I didn't already know the movie so well, I wouldn't have known what all the Casablanca fuss was about.

The image was true to the original 1.33 ratio which made the picture look small but it was shown the way it was meant to be seen and how it was presented originally. As for the sound I think perhaps you have gotten used to modern day Dolby sound and have forgotten or are too young to remember what is what like back then, Warren, William, Vincent...
any comments?

The aspect ratio was correct during Casablanca, but the image was small in relation to the proscenium. When the Music Hall showed films on a regular basis, did they really use so little of the available space?

As to the sound, I did see several movies there during the movie/stage show era, and don't recall any sound problems.

I think that when theaters aren't regularly showing films, but do show the occasional movie, when they do play a movie the equipment and the projectionists aren't always up to speed. If a projectionist comes in and find that the bulb isn't bright enough, or the speakers aren't working right, there is very little he or she can do about it.

The booth is still the same today. In fact, today, Sunday 5/23/04, RCMH is hosting the World Premiere of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azcaban".

I've said somewhere on this site that when I saw Singin in the Rain here in '75 the image was surprisingly small and there is an old Hitchcock where there is a chase through the Music Hall during the film presentation and the image is that small. So I guess from when the Music Hall opened to the 50's people were watching a pretty small screen. So what was that like for the audiences in the second and third mezzanines during this era when the Hall frequently filled up? Their powers of concentration must have been enormous.
Unfortunately when the screen is opened for the Magnascope lenses the image becomes fairly grainy.

Vito - Two of the last features release with prints in a 4-Track Mag stereo format were "Scarface" and "Yentl" in 1983. Any other titles would have been special ordered or what was still left at the film exchanges.

Before 1952 with the premiere of "This is Cinerama" (2.65:1 ratio) and in 1953 with the debut of "The Robe" in CinemaScope (2.55:1 ratio). All films were projected at 1.37:1 (Standard Academy ratio). The original screen might have had alittle more height too it. But because the Music Hall is a very large theatre and has a very wide proscenium, that might be what audiences saw during the early days at the Music Hall. Most of the times people remember the screens as small as a postage stamp. In the book about the San Francisco Fox Theatre, there is a picture of how small the screen looked when projecting a 1.37:1 ratio picture, before CinemaScope. When using Magnascope / Magnacom type lenses the picture will have more grain because you are blowing up the picture and those type lenses eat alot of light too.

Thanks William, Yes the end off 4-track mag came along with Dolby optical noise reduction prints and then Dolby stereo, although most studios had stop making mag prints available in the early 60s. Even Fox which released all of their films prior to 1960 in 4-track
mag-optical, switched to straight optical mono prints.I can recall the joy of getting a rare post 1960 mag print like "Hello Dolly", "Star", "2001" amoung a few others,and then presenting the film in stereo. We would put it on the marguee, presented in 4 track sterophonic sound. As for the Music Hall's image size I believe you are quite right, it was rather small but the alternative Magnascope added much to much grain and robbed more light, even with carbon arc ,then the Hall could afford to lose.

I believe abot twelve years ago they had a classic film series at Radio City. Does anyone remember if it was well attended?

Yankee Mike: I don't know if it was 12 years ago but sometime in the 1990's, there was a Warner Bros. Classic Film Festival, followed a year later by a Universal Classic Film Festival. I attended the showings of Bonnie and Clyde, The Exorcist, My Fair Lady, Psycho, Jaws, Animal House and The Blues Brothers. Bonnie and Clyde was a Wednesday night show and attracted a fairly good crowd, but all the other shows looked like sellouts to me.

I saw Bonnie and Clyde that year. The next year I saw Psycho, Jaws and The Sting. I remember the reaction and the screams of people when watching Psycho and Jaws. It was like the first time seeing it, and people laughed and applauded. It was great. The prints were archived prints, good but nothing special, it was good enough though. Mono soundtracks, sounding echoing in the auditorium. I remember talking to an usher that night and he was saying they were planning for the next series with a screening of Superman. That was in 1997. So, that's a done deal. But seeing these films in the Music Hall were a special experience. It's too bad they don't do this anymore. But I guess there's too many rap concerts to plan.

Bonnie and Clyde was made even cooler with an appearance by the film's director Arthur Penn. These two consecutive series were incredible. It seemed like a new light had shown on Manhattan theatergoing. Jaws was PACKED! I believe Blade Runner may even have been sold out. The Exorcist was an experience like none other, and with William Friedkin and Ellen Burstyn both there... priceless.

I've been hoping someone would pick that idea back up again, but now reading over the posts I wonder just how much it must cost to make Radio City run for a night. As many noticed, so many of these screenings were packed. Seeing a movie with 5,000 other people is just incredible.

Does anyone know who organized these film series? To this outsider they sure seemed easy to run. If you can charge $40 for a show ticket and do okay with all the hydraulics and smoke machines of a concert, you should be able to have a film projected for $12 a ticket times 5,000 tickets. Older films are just not that expensive to rent. Even if they're collecting 35% of the door, sharing $60K for projecting a film print just doesn't seem like bad business.

It seems that those who now run the Music Hall have no interest in films whatsoever. Remember years ago that first run film presentation was not so much about making a pile of money from the get go but giving it the best possible send off. It had everything to do with showmanship and class. Real money was usually not made until second and third run. Disney pulled Snow White from the Hall after five weeks(when it surely could have run a few more) simply because he wanted the neighborhood money after getting the Music Hall's prestige. He would continue using the Music Hall for special films until his death.

I've heard that the reason there are 5 projectors is because "in the day" 2 prints were run simultaneously, one projecting onto the screen and one running with the dowser closed. I was told was that should a projector fail, film break, anything go wrong, they would instantly switch to the other running projector. Supposedly this was cheaper than refunding 6000 tickets.

Also regarding screen size, I have a 1926 Paramount magazine ad, (part of their "Friendship Means More at the Movies" ad campaign) that shows a theater full of happy people watching a tiny screen in a vast curtained movie palace proscenium. My old time projectionist buddy tells me that the pre WWII lamps simply weren't bright enough to really light up a big screen. If the image got too big, the image was too dim: a problem in all the big halls, but obviously compounded by the outsize RCMH screen.

I'm not a New Yorker, so I've only been to this theatre 3 times, but I remember those three trips well! I thought the theatre was gorgeous back then, and it probably still is, but it seems like the magic is gone. It was great to go there and catch a great movie AND a great stage show, to watch the lights slowly change color in the auditorium during the presentation, to feel the rumble of the organ even as you're standing out in the lobby, the crush of thousands of people all enjoying themselves. I remember how even the "ordinary" stage shows (the non-holiday ones) were spectacular.

Now it just seems as if it's just another 75 dollar a head theatre which presents a whole lot of stuff that doesn't do this great place justice. Wasn't the whole point behind movie palaces to provide a huge amount of entertainment at the lowest possible price, and to be surrounded by incredible luxury that anyone could afford to enjoy?

I'm glad the place is still standing and serving, it's just not the same place anymore.

I always wondered why the screen from that era into the early fifties was so tiny. How did 6,000 people collectively concentrate on such a tiny screen film after film without constantly being distracted or losing interest?

Shade....from your lips to God's ear...I remember Arthur Penn being there, I was so pumped. Peter Benchley was at Jaws...There's no showmanship anymore....they should read this site.

Here are a few films that played Radio City from the New York Times movie adds.

Mar 1933 King Kong
Apr 1937 A Star is Born
Jan 1938 Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs
Mar 1939 Stagecoach
Oct 1939 Mr Smith Goes To Washington
Mar 1940 Rebecca
Aug 1950 Sunset Boulevard
Oct 1951 An American in Paris
Apr 1953 Shane
Oct 1954 White Christmas
Sep 1964 Mary Poppins

brucec

Yes Will, you are correct, two prints were run in case of a film break or malfuntion. In those days a blank screen, or white sheet, as it was called then, was a projectionist worse nightmare.

Here are a list of a few of the films that Played Radio City from 1950 Thru 1970

1950 Stage Fright,Father of the Bride,The Men, King Solomons Mines
1951 Royal Wedding,The Great Caruso,Showboat,An American in Paris
1952 The Greatest Show on Earth,Singing in the Rain,Ivanhoe
1953 Shane,The Bandwagon,Roman Holiday,Mogambo,Kiss Me Kate
1954 Knights of the Round Table,The Long Long Trailer,White Christmas
1955 Love Me or Leave Me,Mister Roberts,I'll Cry Tommorrow,Picnic
1956 The Swan,High Society,Bhowana Junction,Tea and Sympathy
1957 The Spirit of St Louis,Funny Face,Silk Stockings,Sayonara
1958 No Time For Seargeants,Cat on a Hot Tin Roof,Auntie Mame
1959 The Nuns Story,North By Northwest,Operation Petticoat
1960 Please Don't Eat the Daisies,Midnight Lace,The Sundowners
1961 Fanny,Come September,Breakfest at Tiffanys,Babes in Toyland
1962 Lover Come Back,The Music Man,To Kill a Mockingbird,Jumbo
1963 Bye Bye Birdie,Spencers Mountain,Come Blow Your Horn,Charade
1964 The Pink Panther,The Unsinkable Molly Brown,Mary Poppins,
1965 The Sandpiper,The Great Race,That Darn Cat,Dear Heart
1966 Inside Daisy Clover,How To Steal a Million,Follow The Boys
1967 Two For The Road,Barefoot in the Park,Wait Until Dark
1968 The Odd Couple,Bulitt,The Impossible Years,Hotel,The 25th Hour
1969 The Love Bug,True Grit,A Boy Named Charlie Brown,Mayerling
1970 Airport,The Out of Towners,Darling Lili,Scrooge

The most successful film to ever play the Music Hall was
Paramount Pictures The Odd Couple it played for 14 Weeks and
grossed $3.1 Million in 1968.

Cary Grant is the Music Hall's alltime boxoffice champ.The
Music Hall played Twenty-seven of his films which played a
total of 113 weeks.

Fred Astaire is second place with Sixtheen films playing a
total of sixty weeks.

Greer Garson is the Queen of Radio City with Eleven films
playing a total of Seventy-Nine weeks.

Ginger Rogers had twenty-three films which played fifty-five
weeks.

Katherine Hepburn had twenty-two films which played sixty-four
weeks. Hepburn is the only performer,male or female,to have
seventeen successive films open at the Music Hall.


Note the above stats are from the 1979 Radio City Music Hall
by Charles Francisco.brucec

A list of movies that played at RCMH from opening through July 1978 can be found as an appendix to Charles Francisco's hardcover book, "The Radio City Music Hall." The list claims to be complete, but I found at least one omission, "Mr. Lucky," which played in 1943 after the run of "The Youngest Profession" and before "So Proudly We Hail." Also, some of the years between 1947 and 1953 end with the wrong movie. 1947, for example, ended with "Good News." "A Double Life" was the first attraction of 1948, and not "The Paradine Case," which followed.

I love that fact that this summer five games of the NY Liberty, a WNBA entry also owned by RCMH's Cablevision, will be played on the stage of this grand old hall.

As a former RCMH usher (1958 - 1959), I am delighted to find so many fans of the theater out there, notwithstanding those with such authoritative knowledge...technical and otherwise. One issue that was never brought up, but is interesting to consider is why huge single screen theaters are no longer practical for films is this: We all know how most films are shown today: i.e. not continuous, but rather with an admission to one particular showing. The theater is emptied and swept between performances in most multi-plexes. In the days of the movie palaces, such as RCMH, a 3,000 to 6,000 seater would have patrons entering and exiting at any time from morning to last show. Except for road shows, patrons would not tolerate being kept from entering a theater (except when SRO) at their discretion even if the film was a mystery and in the middle. At RCMH, it took a full hour with four cashiers going (sometimes five plus the reserved seat window)to fill the 6,000 seats on those days (especially during holidays)when the theater expected a "tight initial" (house filled before the start of the first feature). The Music Hall, as did others with thousands of seats to fill, only had a five to ten minute (maximum)break between film and stage shows. Except for the lucky few hundred patrons waiting in the lobby, those in the street line had little hope of getting into the theater before the start of the feature. It didn't matter to them. We have changed our movie going habits and would not tolerate a film starting before we were in our seats. Except at the Paramount on Times Square during the 1940s(where police actually helped clear the theater of screaming teens who wanted to stay all day), the big theaters counted on a constant flow of traffic. I remember when "All About Eve" opened at the Roxy, the managment tried to seat patrons only during the 30 minute break between shows. It failed because irate patrons were unwilling to wait if there were empty seats inside. Also the problem of getting 6,000 people into their seats in 30 minutes proved next to impossible. That lasted one week and the film went back to continuous showings. Another interesting point is that the Music Hall was not designed for standing lobby crowds (only a couple of hundred would fit without blocking critical exits from the auditorium). The theater was obliged to keep most patrons in the street. However, once the line moved it moved swiftly and 1,500 people could be inside within fifteen minutes. In contrast, The Roxy could hold 2,000 people in the rotunda. That is also why you rarely saw a street line at the Roxy. (I also ush-ed at the Roxy from 1956 - 1957). One of my favorite assignments as an RCMH usher to to do a spot check of number of patrons at the Roxy when a new film opened. I suspect it had to do with a bit of rivalry but also to see if the grosses reported in Variety were credible based on attendance. My wife loves my picture in my RCMH uniform. I also had a thrill watching a FOX newsreel on TCM one night when they showed the opening night crowd of "Anastasia" (ROXY). And there I am...immortalized and standing proudly in the rotunda as the stars pass by.

I hope that SimonL decides to send a copy of that photo of him in his usher's uniform to the Theatre Historical Society of America at: 152 N. York Rd., Suite 200, Elmhurst Il, 60126-2806 They also have a web site that might be of interest to you: www.HistoricTheatres.org They have a wonderful painting of the ROXY right on their site if you click on the link to it, and possibly they will be willing to trade a cvolor copy of that for your photo(s). By donating such copies, you make sure that posterity knows of your achievements and the glories of the long-lost ROXY, and any other theatres you woked at. Do send a copy of your memories here too! Thank you for them.

One should not forget to mention Dick Leibert, one of the original organists at Radio City Music Hall. He played there for 40 years. Mr. Leibert also recorded many albums, many on the RCMH organ, for RCA. What a superb musician.

Yes, Leibert was a supurb musician, but he was not alone in keeping the break pealing with the sounds of the great organ. Ashley Miller and Raymond F. Bohr Jr. alternated (as well as in concert)with him. Jim: I am a member of THS and have gone on about six conclaves.

For anyone who might be interested...for about seven years I have had a page on AOL devoted to a salute to Radio City Music Hall. I change photos several times a year. The photos are mainly taken from various souvenir booklets that I purchased beginning in the mid 1940's. The text is my appreciation of this incredible theater. Several years ago I received a wonderfully nice letter from someone who worked there. She thanked me for feeling about the theater as she herself did. The link is: http://hometown.aol.com/ctrobert8/MainPage.html

Oh my gosh, go right now to Bob Ketler's home page and read the magnificent article he wrote on RCMH. I also want to thank Simonl for the walk thru memory lane. I attended just about every new show from the mid 1950s thru the mid 1970s We always tried to see the stage show in the front row behind the lighting guy and then rush up to the top mezzanine to watch the movie.We would sit right under the projection booth. What I would not give to go back there and see one more movie and a stage show for a buck twenty five.

I remember seeing Fantasia in 1978 and was awed by the size of the screen. When I saw special showings of Bonnie and Clyde, Psycho, Jaws, The Sting in the late 90's, while the screen was big, I wasn't awed. Was it a smaller screen than what RCMH used?

Bravo to Bob Ketler's home page salute to RCMH. Here are a few very minor corrections. Except during Christmas and Easter week when the doors would open 7:45 am, and on one Christmas occasion at 6:45 am (due to the length of "Sayonara" and to allow 5 shows), the normal house opening was at 10:15 am with the feature beginning at 10:30 on weekdays. Last stage show was always between 9:15 and 9:30, except on Sundays which strangly had a late stage show around 10:15. Also let's get the seating capacity right. Both the Roxy and RCMH claimed to have 6,000 seats when in reality the Roxy had 5,800 and the Music Hall 5,945. But whose counting right? Has anyone noticed that the new contour curtain (since the magnificent restoration) hangs rigidly on the stage floor and only when it begins to rise does it show the folds. I understand the process, but I remember that the original gold curtain still displayed a hint of a swagger...or am I dreaming. Oh yes, the prices. Throughout the 1950s, or until "Rosemarie" opened as the first Cinemascope film and they raised the admission price by 10 cents the prices were as follows: Weekdays Opening to noon .80; noon to 6pm 1.25 and 6 to closing 1.50. Saturdays .95 to noon; 1.25 to 3pm and 1.50 to close; Sundays 1.25 from opening to 1pm and 1.50 1pm to close. Reserved seats (1st mezzanine)1.80 for matiness and 2.40 evenings and holidays. Reserved seat "subsciption" tickets were also available during the first two weeks of every show. This was very popular among the elite during the 1940s and 1950s and the crowd in the first mezzanine looked like the grand tier set at the Met.

Simon L- Knights of the Round Table was the first cinemascope at the Music Hall. Sorry to hear about the new curtain as it used to have many vertical folds. But then the place is no longer Radio City Music Hall(and Rockefeller Center is now a 5th Av Paramus Park.)

The curtain at the hall does appear to raise differently as well, I remember visiting the stage being shown the many motors required to raise her. As we know the curtain can be raised in many different ways it all depends on the ways the motors are programmed. I don't like the way she raises now, it seems to eliminate most of the waterfall effect and it goes up all at once. Even in the full up position it's almost a straight horizontal line across.

Another bit of trivia about RCMH: trailers of the next attraction were shown, however, there was a one minute "announcement" of the next attraction shown on the screen in which a few lines describing the film would appear over a grey background with live organ accompaniment. It began "The Radio City Music Hall is proud to present as its next distinquished attraction the world premiere of XXXXX. Also on the great stage a new spectacle produced by (either) Leon Leonidoff or Russell Markert. Also the latest Walt Disney cartoon would get a spot on the program if the film were not more than 110 minutes long. One more bit of info: During the 1950s, a film had to gross $88,000 in the four day period from Thursday thru Sunday to warrent a holdover. A good opening week was around $145,000 and would suggest a four week run. The only film I know that didn't break the $100,000 barrier during its opening week in the 1950s was "The Barretts of Wimpole Street." It grossed a paltry $85,000 for the entire week, but it was held for 2 weeks, the miniumum run in that decade.

I am very sorry to hear from the previous comments that the wonderful and 'signature' CONTOUR CURTAIN no longer works as some seem to remember it. I wonder if some people are not confusing it with the AUSTRIAN FOLD curtain, where, unlike the Contour, there are continuous horizontal swag folds from one side of a vertical panel to the other, from top to bottom even when the curtain is fully descended. This Austrian Fold type can be rigged to either rise entirely as does a typical 'drop curtain', or it can also be rigged to gather up from the bottom as does a Contour type. A true Contour Curtain, on the other hand, looks very like a standard drop ('guillotine') curtain when at full descent, but when opening it gathers up from the bottom to form swaged folds similar to the Austrian, but only for a ways up from the bottom, the distance depending upon how far it is raised to fully ascended position. It is also quite possible that the controls for the Contour in RCMH are now starting to malfunction with age, and the owners are reluctant to put the money into repairing them. For those interested in this singular Contour Curtain rigging method, there is a very rare photo of the control panel for it showing the 13 lines of peg switches completing the X-Y coordinates to achieve the desired pattern and height once raised, on page 23 of MARQUEE magazine of the Theatre Historical Soc. of 3rd Qtr. 1999, along with a great deal of other technical info about RCMH by Lyman C. Brenneman. Let's hope that at least this signature feature of the opulent opening days can be retained in at least this one theatre where it is so much a part of the unique experience.

PHOTOS AVAILABLE:
To obtain any available Back Issue of either "Marquee" or of its ANNUALS, simply go to the web site of the THEATRE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA at:
www.HistoricTheatres.org and notice on their first page the link "PUBLICATIONS: Back Issues List" and click on that and you will be taken to their listing where they also give ordering details. The "Marquee" magazine is 8-1/2x11 inches tall ('portrait') format, and the ANNUALS are also soft cover in the same size, but in the long ('landscape') format, and are anywhere from 26 to 40 pages. Should they indicate that a publication is Out Of Print, then it may still be possible to view it via Inter-Library Loan where you go to the librarian at any public or school library and ask them to locate which library has the item by using the Union List of Serials, and your library can then ask the other library to lend it to them for you to read or photocopy. [Photocopies of most THSA publications are available from University Microforms International (UMI), but their prices are exorbitant.]

Note: Most any photo in any of their publications may be had in large size by purchase; see their ARCHIVE link. You should realize that there was no color still photography in the 1920s, so few theatres were seen in color at that time except by means of hand tinted renderings or post cards, thus all the antique photos from the Society will be in black and white, but it is quite possible that the Society has later color images available; it is best to inquire of them.

Should you not be able to contact them via their web site, you may also contact their Executive Director via E-mail at: execdir@historictheatres.org
Or you may reach them via phone or snail mail at:
Theatre Historical Soc. of America
152 N. York, 2nd Floor York Theatre Bldg.
Elmhurst, ILL. 60126-2806 (they are about 15 miles west of Chicago)

Phone: 630-782-1800 or via FAX at: 630-782-1802 (Monday through Friday, 9AM--4PM, CT)

Simon L how do you know all this great stuff? Did you attend the MH during this era?
I think that during the 70's 2001 made below 90 grand. Also during the 70's films were kept well past their expiration date. Airport played well after its grosses dropped and I worked there during Robin and Marian which seemed to play forever which even before and during Easter week played to empty houses. After that was 1776 and The Blubird where you could have shot off cannons and not harmed a soul(you've never seen an emptier and sadder theater than the Music Hall in the mid 70's.)An old man there who had been a Roxy usher in the late 20's told me that The Odd Couple had as many people on its last day after 14 weeks as it had on opening day. And a ticket seller told me it was the last film where the pressure was unrelenting. How in the world did things change so fast?

Yes Simon, I remember the coming attractions made exclusivly for RCMH,I used to think it lent a certain amount of class to the show. I also remember Radio City Music Hall news which was a compulation of the best stories from two or three different news reels.The news began with a wonderful RCMH opening folowed by the best clips from News Of The Day, Warner Pathe and Movietone news. I wish clips were available of those wonderful previews and news openings.

I believe the decline of the Music Hall during the 1960s is well documented. HOwever, those of us who worked there, as well as at the Roxy, will never forget what a class operation they were from managment to the service personel. How a film was presented was of paramount importantance. A patron never saw a blank screen. The film (or studio logo)would begin as the contour curtain lifted and the traveler curtain opened simultaneously. The contour curtain would begin its descent timed perfectly to hit the stage as the film ended. Also no short or cartoon ever started with the traveler opening and closing. Also the organist would pick up on the last note off the sound track and then seque into his medley. If's fun to remember and hear the responses.

Correction: Previous sentence should read: Also no short or cartoon ever started WITHOUT the traveler opening and closing. Sorry.

Simon - Thank you for putting down some memories. Your writing style and descriptions are exceptional. Can I pester you for more? Tell us about the training you got to be a Roxy and RCMH usher. Was there any of the military bravura that Ben Hall describes in his book? Were there sports teams? Did RCMH play the Capitol? Did you ever sing in the glee club? Or was all that just publicitiy hype?

Also, what were the accomodations like for the ushers? Is there a vast hidden suite of rooms? Where is it? Did you ever date a Rockette? Was the Center Theatre still there when you were working? Did you ever get sent there?

Details! Untold millions are sitting here eagerly waiting to hear every detail from someone who was there!

Thank you Will for the compliments. Remember that I was only at the Roxy (1956 - 57) and Music Hall (1958-59)during the last of the glory days, but also well after the days that you describe above. Yes, the ushers at both the Roxy and Music Hall were trained to exceptional standards to handle large crowds, assist patrons and help in keeping the theater running smoothly and efficiently. We had morning inspections and evening inspections. An in-house tailor shop regularly cleaned and repaired all uniforms and good grooming was essential. I was only 18 years old when I started at the Roxy on the evening and weekend shifts and went to college during the day. The most difficult thing about the job was standing erect and still for long periods of time. No slouching or leaning was tolerated. Neither was conversation with other ushers. Our assignments were given by the captain before we went on the floor. They included an aisle or foyer assignment, center rotunda or near the front lobby. Only doormen (you had to be over 6ft) worked the outer lobby and street. Most everyone preferred the orchestra as the upper mezzanine rarely had the action or flow of patrons. Our uniforms were season specific i.e. white jackets in summer and black jackets in winter. and included a white dicky and black bow tie. We carried flashlights and learned complicated hand signals that came in very handy when relaying messages across such a huge expanse. We had house phones on every level to use reach head ushers and asst managers when needed. The most important function was to keep tabs on seat availability and let those handling the lines (whether inside or out) know how many seats were available and in what location. There was always an usher at the auditorium entrance with a notebook counting the number of patrons (called a spill)that entered every 10 minutes. This gave us a clue as to when seats would become available after 3 hours. No patrons were ever seated during the overture but had to stay in the standing room section in rear of orchestra. Also no seating was allowed during the Nativity or Glory of Easter pageants. To answer you questions above: we did not have sport teams (bummer)or sing. But I did participate with my fellow ushers as escorts for the Rockettes (they rode on a float until we got to Macy's)the first time they appeared in the Thanksgiving Day parade. To digress just a bit: It was the movie studios that were responsible for the downward spiral of the Music Hall. The studios would not guarantee the Music Hall an exclusive run prior to regular release. The growing number of poor G rated films and the growing number of excellent films with R ratings also hurt.The 1960s introduced the mass multiple run openings across the country. I'm sure you've all read enough about that. And NO, I never dated a Rockette.

I remember telling a ticket seller there who had been there for years
(during the forties she had been at the Strand) that Harry and Walter was not going to be exclusive to the Music Hall in the metro area and she responded that that was it, it was all over and she was right.
Of course the Music Hall hastened its own demise by its threadbare and amateurish stage shows of the period. They got rid of the ballet company which was the backbone of the spectacles(Bolero, Rhapsody in Blue, the Undersea Ballet etc.) which was really the raison d'etre of the Hall and the Rockettes were cut back to 30.
The only (mediocre)spectacle today is at Christmas and I want to know why they got rid of the Leonidoff Renaissance Nativity(which even Pauline Kael liked!) and replaced it with a piece of Christian fundamentalist nonsense.

Let's remember that many of the old movie palaces, at least those that were known as "presentation houses" were a phenomenon. For the first time (from the 1920s thru 1950s) middle class and poor people could experience "classical" music played by a symphony orchestra, world class ballet, the great arias and cantatas sung by a renowned singer and a choral ensemble, all with a film and at popular prices and in a city near you. It raised the consciousness of the nation and brought an unexpected shower of culture to people that could only imagine it through the radio. Even the theaters that catered to the "Big Bands" reached millions that could only hear them on the radio. Like it or not, the era has passed and the dumming down of America has had its effect. The pop/rap scene has virtually eradicated classical culture from our society. Only the elite and wealthy are privileged to enjoy it nowadays. The cost of producing a show that would please Vincent at the Music Hall would be prohibitive. As it is, tickets to the Christmas show now can run as high as $90. Ridiculous. My question: Does anyone know if there are any filmed records of complete Music Hall shows of the 1930s, 40s, & 50s? Also I've tried to find the archived records of the grosses of the New York Theaters on the web...without going to micro-film. Is that possible?

Can we really fault the 1960's - '70's Music Hall management for insisting on "G" rated films even at the expense of profit? Certainly the result was the decline and near failure of the "Showplace of the Nation," but they were actually trying to uphold a standard. In the face of a cultural and business shift RCMH seems to have tried to keep to the high road. It's more than I can say for the managers who chopped their halls into mulit-plexes, went to porno or tore the halls down.

All of the super-palace class theaters (think Chicago's Uptown, Paradise, Marbro, New York's Capitol, Roxy, Center and many more) were financial balacing acts. We all held our breath when the Music Hall's future hung in that balance. RCMH, for all its lack of vision in production at least remains intact, doors open and protected from demolition. If the Christmas shows pander to a specific audience AND pay the bills to keep the greatest theater ever built open, I for one won't complain too much. As long as the hall stands, there's hope that someday, some brilliant showman will come along who can draw the thousands necessary to make the money to pay the orchestra, the organists, the ballet, the Rockettes, the ushers, the engineers, the stage hands, the projectionists, the costumers, the choreographers, the publicists and everyone else it takes to create magnificent, wonderful, outlandish spectacle at "popular" prices.

I remain optimistic.

Simon much to my chagrin I must agree with you and yes rock(not pop) and rap have eradicated classical culture from society(pace those of you who love rock and rap. Even those of you who love them have to admit that we've paid a terribly high price culturally and socially their success. Now don't get all bent out of shape and be defensive and angry. It's just the natures of those beasts.)

The Music Hall for all intensive purposes is a white elephant. Just think that it was used for the Kerry camapign and it is about to house basketball games! And by that I mean you don't need the Music Hall's resources for much of anything that goes on there now.
There was a large middle class audience that enjoyed a classical ballet and classical overture along with the Rockettes and acrobats and didn't find it laughable or tedious.
But our society and culture have coarsened and been polarized 10 times over from when The Odd Couple played there in '68. The hit movies of that year were in addition to that film 2001, Lion in Winter and Funny Girl. Today they are Passion of the Christ, Farenheit 9/11, and Spiderman. Read it and weep.

What was the name of that movie theatre that was in Radio City's building but around the corner, and smaller? I saw its last film, an Albert Brooks movie several years ago, and it's now a retail store. It's astonishing that a movie theatre at that superb location couldn't flourish. The chairs were threadbare and the concession stand only sold one relatively small and non-buttered container of popcorn, oddly, but when you stepped outside, you were right in the middle of the Rockefeller Center complex. Sensational location.

Camden

Are you thinking of the Guild?

I believe the theater that "Camden" is referring to is the Guild. It was a classy little art house operation (about 500 seats)that specialized in British films. It was very comfortable and posh during its heyday and had a lovely lounge one level below the theater in which coffee and small cakes were served to patrons waiting for the film to end. Like the Music Hall it used its trailer curtain effectively opening and closing between the news and the feature. One of its greatest and longest running hits was the documentary "A Queen is Crowned" that ran for six months and had long lines. Also "Gate of Hell," was another smash hit from Japan (played about six months or more)and is considered was the breakthrough film from Japan. Its breathtaking use of Technicolor and portait quality cinematography are landmarks in film making. The Boulting Brothers comedys from the U.K. were great favorites. The Guild enjoyed its greatest success during the 1940s and 1950s. Sometimes there was a long line waiting to get into the Guild while the Music Hall had immediate seating. Patrons arriving from 5th Avenue would get confused when they saw the line and had to be told to continue walking toward 6th Avenue to the Music Hall entrance.

The Guild
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/1077/

Part of the history of a great theater is the films which played there. This is especially true of the Radio City Music Hall, the largest theater in New York City, and truly the "Showplace of the Nation." I have enjoyed reading the comments posted wherein people remember visits to the Hall and the films that were showing there. Listed below are the films which played at Radio City Music Hall from late 1959 to 1975. Research is from microfilms of Variety and The New York Times. The date listed is the Wednesday of the week that the film opened. In those days, most new films opened on that day, not on Fridays as they do now. I believe in most cases, the RCMH opened its films and new stageshows on Thursdays, although there may be instances where this was not the case.
11/11/59 The Miracle
12/02/59 Operation Petticoat
01/20/60 Never So Few
02/10/60 Once More, With Feeling
03/02/60 Home From the Hill
03/30/60 Please Don't Eat the Daisies
05/18/60 Pollyanna
06/22/60 Bells are Ringing
08/10/60 Song Without End
09/21/60 The Dark at the Top of the Stairs
10/12/60 Midnight Lace
11/09/60 The World of Suzie Wong
12/07/60 The Sundowners
01/18/61 Where the Boys Are
02/15/61 Cimarron
03/15/61 The Absent-Minded Professor
05/03/61 Parrish
05/31/61 The Pleasure of His Company
07/05/61 Fanny
09/06/61 Come September
10/04/61 Breakfast at Tiffany's
11/08/61 Flower Drum Song
12/13/61 Babes in Toyland
01/10/62 A Majority of One
02/07/62 Lover Come Back
03/14/62 Rome Adventure
04/04/62 Moon Pilot
05/16/62 Bon Voyage
06/13/62 That Touch of Mink
08/22/62 The Music Man
09/26/62 Gigot
10/31/62 Gypsy
12/05/62 Billy Rose's "Jumbo"
01/09/63 The Days of Wine and Roses
02/06/63 To Kill a Mockingbird
03/13/63 A Girl Named Tamiko
04/02/63 Bye Bye Birdie
05/15/63 Spencer's Mountain
06/05/63 Come Blow Your Horn
07/31/63 The Thrill of it All
09/18/63 The VIPs
10/23/63 Mary, Mary
11/13/63 The Wheeler Dealers
12/04/63 Charade
01/22/64 The Prize
02/19/64 Captain Newman, MD
03/18/64 The World of Henry Orient
04/22/64 The Pink Panther
05/20/64 The Chalk Garden
07/15/64 The Unsinkable Molly Brown
09/23/64 Mary Poppins
11/11/64 Send Me No Flowers
12/09/64 Father Goose
01/27/65 36 Hours
03/03/65 Dear Heart
03/31/65 Operation Crossbow
05/12/65 The Yellow Rolls-Royce
07/14/65 The Sandpiper
09/15/65 The Great Race
11/03/65 Never Too Late
12/01/65 That Darn Cat
01/19/66 Judith
02/16/66 Inside Daisy Clover
03/16/66 The Singing Nun
05/04/66 Arabesque
06/08/66 The Glass-Bottom Boat
07/13/66 How to Steal a Million
09/21/66 Kaleidoscope
10/12/66 Any Wednesday
11/09/66 Penelope
11/30/66 Follow Me, Boys!
01/18/67 Hotel
02/15/67 The 25th Hour
03/08/67 How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying
04/26/67 Two for the Road
05/24/67 Barefoot in the Park
08/16/67 Up the down Staircase
09/27/67 The Bobo
10/25/67 Wait Until Dark
11/29/67 The Happiest Millionaire
01/17/68 How to Save a Marriage & Ruin Your Life
02/07/68 Sweet November
02/28/68 The Secret War of Harry Frigg
03/20/68 The One & Only, Genuine, Original Family Band
05/01/68 The Odd Couple
08/07/68 Where Were You When the Lights Went Out?
09/18/68 Hot Millions
10/16/68 Bullitt
12/04/68 The Impossible Years
01/15/69 The Brotherhood
02/12/69 Mayerling
03/12/69 The Love Bug
04/23/69 If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium
05/21/69 Winning
07/02/69 True Grit
08/27/69 The Gypsy Moths
09/24/69 The Christmas Tree
10/22/69 Hail, Hero!
11/12/69 The Brain
12/03/69 A Boy Named Charlie Brown
01/21/70 Viva, Max!
02/11/70 ...tick...tick...tick...
03/04/70 Airport
05/27/70 The Out-of-Towners
07/22/70 Darling Lili
09/23/70 Sunflower
10/28/70 The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes
11/18/70 Scrooge
01/20/71 Promise at Dawn
02/17/71 Wuthering Heights
03/10/71 A New Leaf
05/12/71 Plaza Suite
06/30/71 Murphy's War
07/28/71 The Red Tent
09/01/71 See No Evil
09/29/71 Kotch
10/27/71 The Railway Children
11/10/71 Bedknobs and Broomsticks
01/12/72 The Cowboys
02/02/72 Mary, Queen of Scots
03/08/72 What's Up, Doc?
05/03/72 Play it Again, Sam
05/31/72 The War Between Men and Women
07/05/72 Butterflies are Free
08/16/72 The Last of the Red Hot Lovers
09/20/72 Cancel My Reservation
10/18/72 When the Legends Die
11/08/72 1776
01/31/73 The World's Greatest Athlete
02/21/73 Charlotte's Web
03/14/73 Tom Sawyer
05/16/73 Mary Poppins
06/27/73 40 Carats
08/08/73 Night Watch
09/26/73 From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankenweiler
10/17/73 The Optimists
11/07/73 Robin Hood
01/31/74 Superdad
03/06/74 Mame
05/16/74 The Black Windmill
06/05/74 Herbie Rides Again
07/10/74 The Tamarind Seed
08/21/74 The Girl From Petrovka
-------------------------------
From this point, my records only show first-run films that were reviewed in The New York Times. Certainly, the films below did not have such long runs, indicating that the Hall began to be used for other events or was dark.

11/06/74 The Little Prince
03/05/75 At Long Last Love
05/21/75 The Wind and the Lion
06/25/75 Bite the Bullet
07/30/75 Hennessy
11/04/75 The Sunshine Boys

As can be seen, during the period from 1959 to 1975, most of the films which played at Radio City Music Hall were indeed, family-friendly, which along with the accompanying stage shows were selected to draw in not only New York residents but the large tourist trade. There were only rare instances when RCMH featured a film with "adult" themes, such as "The Days of Wine & Roses," "The World of Suzie Wong," and "The Sandpiper." Of course, many big films received their American and NYC premieres there. A number of films which played the Hall were those which were set in NYC. And special consideration was given to booking films from the Walt Disney studios, cute romantic comedies, and the film versions of successful plays and musicals from Broadway which in New York had built-in name recognition. Almost all of the films which were made from Neil Simon comedies got their NY premiere at the Hall. Finally, a big consideration was given to films which had the name box-office stars of the time such as Cary Grant, Doris Day, Rock Hudson, Sophia Loren, Julie Andrews, Goldie Hawn, Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau, Debbie Reynolds, James Garner, Paul Newman, John Wayne.

(If I have made omissions or there are corrections, please post and let visitors to this fine website know. I realize from reading above that these films are listed in a book about the Hall, but not all of us have access to it, and so they are now on this site. My research and interest in films began in 1958 when I was only 5, so perhaps someone who has access to data about the films which played there in earlier decades will be kind enough to put it here. I am trying to get my research information on the Cinema Treasures website for all of the major theaters in the large cities around the country so it will be easy for future theater scholars to find it. Thank you.)

Nice job Ron!
Thank you for sharing

I wonder if Ron3853, or anyone, has found a website that has compiled the weekly grosses that Variety has only on microfilm.

Movie credits are fairly easy to come by. But what is desparately needed is a full list of all the stage shows that supported the movies at RCMH, complete with titles, dates, producers, directors, writers, and casts of performers, including the members of the Rockettes, Corps De Ballet and Symphony Orchestra. This seems a worthy dissertation for someone going for a PHD in theatre history.

Well done Rob...I know I was there for Mary,Mary...Mary Poppins...True Grit...What's Up Doc...Viva Max...The Odd Couple and The Out of Towners though it feels like more than that

Thanks so much Ron - what a great list and what great memories it triggered. Now I know for sure that the first film I saw at the Music Hall was Bon Voyage, when I always thought it was That Touch of Mink. I was 7 years old for both films. I also got to relive all the films I WANTED to see at the Music Hall but was too young to go see by myself.

Ron-Thanks for the great work but now I'm reminded of all the great films that I would have loved to see at the Hall but couldn't because I was too young. As you can see the list in the 70's gets pretty pathetic(with a rare gem every now and then.) And of course most of them I did get to see while regreting the fact that the Music Hall was stuck with such mediocrity to show on its screen(like watching paint dry as they say.)
Well either the Hall couldn't get anything else because of studio execs or the people choosing the films had pretty horrendous taste. I remember when Wanda Hale was lamenting the fact that a mindless gore fest like See No Evil was playing there. They might have well shown Night of the Living Dead which is a better film.
Films the Hall should have shown from this era;
The Boy Friend
The Way We Were
Prisoner of Second Avenue
Murder on the Orient Express
The Poseiden Adventure
That's Entertainment 1 and 2
Funny Lady
Lost Horizon(yes, a seriously bad movie but it would have packed the place)

I'm sure there are others I have left out. But PG product was plentiful during this era and every time I saw the ad for the next Music Hall film my heart would sink.

Interesting that Days of Wine and Roses and To Kill a Mockingbird played back to back. If New Yorkers wanted to see some of the best screen performances from the year 1962 (besides Lawrence of Arabia), they had to go to the Music Hall in early 1963.

Interesting that Bill would mention those two films above. Although critically acclaimed, neither one did extraordinary business: 4 & 5 weeks respectively under a guarantee. Granted that those films attracted a mature audience, they were hard to sell to the typical Music Hall audience. Curiously, the Hall attracted a more mature audience during its first two decades notably "Randam Harvest" (ll weeks) and "Sunset Boulevard" in 1950 (7 weeks). I guess the dumbing down began right after "Days..." and "...Mockingbird." That tells us something...maybe about the drinking water.

Those pictures listed above seem like that same kind that played to empty houses coast-to-coast, helping kill many old theaters in the process. I think Hollywood forgot how to make movies for a while.

Vincent is so right about the films he talks about...all of them day dated East and West Side and suburbs except the That's Entertainments which were exclusive to the Ziegfeld in Manhattan...Sadly in its last few film engagements around 1976 the Music Hall was even daydating with the suburbs on something called Paper Tiger with David Niven and Toshiro Mifune

A major reason for the Music Hall's decline was the introduction in 1962 of the "Premiere Showcase" concept. Although it was started by United Artists, it rapidly spread to all the distributors, who found they could make more money through saturation release. Fewer and fewer "major" movies became available to the Music Hall, which often had to settle for the leftovers. By 1969, this was the full film schedule, in order of opening: "The Brotherhood," "Mayerling," "The Love Bug," "If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium," "Winning," "True Grit," "The Gypsy Moths," "The Christmas Tree," "Hail, Hero," "The Brain," and "A Boy Named Charlie Brown." The majority were losers, and some, including "The Christmas Tree" and "The Brain," are among the worst movies ever made.

A slight digression from the Music Hall: The common practice of saturation booking policy by the studios explains the demise of all the single screen cinemas with 1,200 seats or more. The Ziegfeld Theater no longer gets the "exclusive" except perhaps for one week prior to general release. And the 1,500 seat Loew's on 45th St is closing to become a retail store.

I thought Charlie Brown was pretty awful as well(They should have had the O'Toole Goodbye Mr Chips for the Christmas Show)but it was probably one of the most successful films to ever play the Hall. The stage show for it however was the best I ever saw there.

In my opinion, the greedy studios in conjunction with the nation's largest theater chains have totally ruined the once pleasurable pastime of moviegoing. They can have their 24-screen multiplex with stadium seating and cup-holders in the seats! It was much better in the old days when downtown theaters showed first-run films exclusively and neighborhood theaters with balconies got them on second-run as part of a double feature. You could see virtually everything but art films at the local "Bijou" or "Orpheum" in your own neighborhood and even walk to the theater. A wonderful bygone era. Somebody invent a time machine so I can go back to the days of Ike and Mamie!

Ahhhh a time machine, lets see, take me to Christmas 1954 to see "White Christmas" in VistaVision at RCMH

If I had access to the time machine, there are lots of trips I'd be making to the Music Hall: King Kong (1933), The Devil and Daniel Webster (1941), The Yearling (1946), The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (1947), I Remember Mama (1948), The Nun's Story and North by Northwest (both 1959) and, from Ron's list, The Music Man (1962), To Kill a Mockingbird (1963) and Wait Until Dark (1967 - there must've been lots of screams echoing throughout the Hall at the end of that one).

Vito, If you went back in time to Christmas '54 I'm afraid you would have blown it. You would have seen Deep in my Heart with Jose Ferrar.
I hope that you would not have been too bummed and you got a second chance to go back to Thanksgiving '54. Then you would have see it.
The Nov/Dec Christmas show only started in '70 when the Thanksgiving show that year was such a bomb(Wilders cut to shreds "Private Life of Sherlock Holmes") they had to pull it and open the Christmas show early. They never had a Thanksgiving movie again.

Two more quickies - It's a shame that our need for instant gratification doesn't allow for a slower rollout of big pictures and I'm thinking largely of Disney's animation resurgence in the last ten years so that there couldn't still be exclusives at venues such as RCMH...I am curious in how the Premiere Showcase trend emerged in the 60s and 70s...from studio sponsored showcases we found ourselves in Manhattan with amorphous brands such as Flagship, Red Carpet, Blue Ribbon...if anyone can explain

SimonL-
I second William Dunklin's kudos for your description-- Here a couple of supplements: Before CinemaScope brought alterations to the narrow picture sheet space that eliminated a solid draft curtain (with "Knights of the RT" in January, rather than "RoseMarie" at Easter), the contour curtain used to rise before the main film in a fully lit house revealing the yellow traveller behind it. When the studio logo flashed on the traveller siumultaneously with the last organ notes, the lights dimmed and the traveller parted. That way, spectators saw the contour rise in full lighted glory, and enjoyed it in a fractional pause before the film began. The larger CinrmaScope screen eliminated a backstage draft curtain that kept the whole tableau in place, and so that was the end of the pre-film treat. Another supplement: The introduction of big screen in 1953 (with "Shane") eliminated the spectaculkar MagnaScope effect mentioned elsewhere above, whereby certain spectacle scenes in movies were shown on an enlarged screen, when the masks widened from the standard 27'x35' size to a (at that time) manouth 36'x48' size. I remember the effect for the stampede scene in "ing Solomon's Miones" (1950), the storm scene in "Plymouth Adventure" (Thanksgioving, 1952), the Busby Berkeley acquatic scene in "Million Dollar Mermaid" (Christmas, 1952), and, oh yes, the train wreck scene in "Greatest Show on Earth" (January 1951). When "Shane" opened in May '53 at a time when B'way movies were going WideScreen, the Music Hall advertised shhowing the film o"On the Panoramic Screen." I was hugely disappointed, because they simply showed it on the Magnascope Screen, without installing a cuurved wide screen as the Capitol, Loew's State, and others had done. I saw "Band Wagon," "Roman Holiday," and LKiss Me Kate" (defiantly not in #D) that way. By the time of the Christmas show ("Easy to Wed)), the CinemaScope screen was in place, though that Esther Williams splash was made for and shown in c theby-then conventional 1x1.6 ratio on it 32'x52' or so). In those early 'Scope years, the Music Hall narrowed the screen to the (now) tiny 27'x35' for the news , cartoon, and coming attraction announcement (with, yes, the traveller aopening and closing between each segment).

While we are in RCMH time machine mode, I would pick June 1955. On screen was LOVE ME OR LEAVE ME with Doris Day and James Cagney. Featured in the stage show was the Ravel’s BOLERO production number, which was so incredible to my 15 year old mind at the time that I sat through the movie and stage show a second time just to experience that number a second time. It started with a completely dark RCMH, the low drumbeats started and a pair of dancers was spotlighted center stage in the darkness. As the music kept building in volume, more and more dancers appeared and started to fill the stage. As the thundering finale was approaching, which by that time involved all of the Rockettes, the Corps de Ballet and God knows who else filled the stage. For the final crescendo of the music, huge drums on those mini-stages on the sides of the theater were played. It was quite a spectacle to behold.

They attempted a revival of this number in the late 70’s, I believe, as part of one of their summer shows after the screen and stage show combo had been abandoned. However, it was totally unmemorable and a mere shadow of its former self. It lacked the energy and large number of cast members required on stage to recreate that 1955 rendering of RCMH magic.

Re: Seth's question on Premiere Showcases

I'm from Pittsburgh, but it was the same in every big city in the mid-60s...the studios had more product than first-run theaters in which to show them (particularly when good product led to long runs in the downtown movie palaces), so they put together networks of second-run neighborhood houses to serve as first-run houses for a week or two for films that were more cheaply-made or of an exploitational type...good examples would be the Elvis Presley or Jerry Lewis vehicles which came out two or more times a year. Using names like "Showcase" "Red Carpet" and "Blue Ribbon," they made it seem like it was something special that you didn't have to go all the way downtown on the trolley to see a new release.

Darling Lili was the last time the Florence Rogge Bolero was done at the Hall. I kept hoping to see it at some point during the early '70s as I had missed it that summer of '70. They never did it again and then decided in the bizarre thinking that has continued to plague the Hall ever since to stage Bolero in a summer show called Encore but with completely new sets, costumes and choreography by Geoffrey Holder. I didn't bother to go because I knew it would be a travesty and I ask for the millionth time can somebody tell me why they don't do Leonidoff's wonderful Nativity anymore which would open the stage show and then lead into the secular part allowing for a grand Christmas finale? Which of course they wouldn't do now because the clowns who run the place(yes you are)have no sense of showmanship.
Maybe they'll use the place this autumn for football games?

"Premiere Showcase" in NYC was the brainchild of Eugene Picker, who was fired from the presidency of Loew's Theatres when the Tisch brothers bought the company. Picker, who'd joined Loew's as a young man and had spent about 40 years with the company, swore to get even by breaking the dominance of Loew's in the NYC area. He did it with the help of his brother, Arnold Picker, who was one of the top execs of United Artists Corporation. The first "Premiere Showcase" movies were all UA releases, starting with "Road to Hong Kong." When this concept proved successful, all the other distributors followed suit. Some companies, especially MGM and Paramount, which had long associations with Loew's, remained, but eventually jumped ship as well. In the end, Loew's could no longer function as a circuit, and had to book its theatres individually into the various "showcases" that were formed.

Well put Vincent and thanks for filling in some details on the Bolero number.
As you say there is a total lack of "showmanship" at RCMH these days. 76 million dollars to fix the place up and they hardly use the contour curtain, which watching it in the "old days" go up and down in various configurations was almost worth the price of admission alone. Too bad I wasn't alive for the opening night show where 20 minutes were devoted to watching it do all sorts of tricks to a musical accompaniment.
Recently attended an Andres Rieu concert and the Boston Pops and the curtain just sat there in the upward position and didn't move once. Also, I think they also screwed up the acoustics because in our seats on the far left of the orchestra for the Rieu concert there was an annoying echo.
Something else to kvetch about is....why do they have to have that gigantic lighting rig hanging in from of the procenium arch, which destroys the whole art deco effect of how it was meant to look? How did the Music Hall staff ever manage to light those four shows a day quite magnificently for some 35 odd years without that thing hanging there?

Seth and others ask 'Why' things are as they are at RCMH as well as the few large theatres still operating around the country, and the answer to that is well displayed in the documentary "The Monster That Ate Hollywood" shown on PBS a couple years back. It is because of conglomerates, the same business type that is devouring the rest our commercial culture and destroying our society. Likely the owners of RCMH are also ultimately a conglomerate and answer only to the 'bottom line.' As is always the case, when the 'bean counters' take over, artistry goes out the window.

Erwin
How lucky you were you got to see a Cagney, Day Cinemascope film at the Hall along with the Bolero. You might envy those who were there opening night(I wish I had been there too though from all accounts it was a very long, tedious vaudeville show, kind of like the current xmas show( midgets too!)
But I have to say I also envy those who were going there on a regular basis in the 50's and 60's. All those wonderful movies(and the Bolero, Undersea Ballet, Serenade to the Stars, the burning of Nome, Alaska...)

The Burning of Nome Alaska?

Strange but true. For some reason, which none of us alive now will ever know, someone in the Hall in '59 thought a fitting accompaniment to "The Nun's Story" would be the destruction and devastation of Nome. So they burned the place 4 times a day. Now I wasn't there so I can't confirm any of this but I believe they threw in an earthquake as well.

Audrey Hepburn and Dame Edith Evans are still turning in their graves over that one!

Yes, I was there for the "The Great Nome Fire," in which a replica of the town was engulfed in flames (I believe the Japanese are masters of on-stage fires, and they were also in charge of the burning of Atlanta in the London stage production of "Gone With The Wind"). The finale had fire engines racing through the town across the great stage spraying water on the fire with giant hoses as smoke billowed up and engulfed the entire stage from floor to rafters. The curtain came down as the smoke cleared showing the destroyed building. There were brighter moments during the first part of the show that included the Rockettes, as dance hall girls. It was a rather impressive but short display, as "The Nun's Story" was 2 hours and 30 minutes leaving only twenty minutes for a stage show. The other shortest stage show (22 minutes)in my memory was for "The Greatest Show on Earth," (2 hrs 32 mins). It had a circus theme. But when it comes to short stage shows, we can't forget the 15 minutes devoted to the ice show (American Indian theme) that accompanied "Giant" (3 hrs 20 min at the Roxy. The running time for the entire show was just under 4 hours includidng breaks.

Here's another stage show for the books. I believe I saw it with "Home Before Dark" with Jean Simmons (don't hold me to this one). The finale was danced to the ballet music from "Faust." It was a Dante's Inferno number during which huge flames shot up from various holes in the stage floor as the entire company including the dancers (corps de ballet and the Rockettes) whirled around in a sort of orgiastic frenzy until (once again) the stage was engulfed in smoke. This was an unusual number in that the curtain didn't descend during the climactic moment but the cast came forward for bows. The curtain came down after the bows. Can anyone remember any other really bizarre stage shows? I know a mini-opera version of "Madama Butterfly" was staged during the mid-1930s and held for a second week with a change of the film. I believe that was the only time a stage show was held over but not the film. The Paramount would do that on occasion.

Many of the ballets and production numbers at RCMH were repeated over the years, using the same sets and costumes from the theatre's warehouse. One of the most frequently revived of all was Ravel's "Bolero."

EdwinM remarks that: "Recently attended an Andres Rieu concert and the Boston Pops and the curtain just sat there in the upward position and didn't move once." This should not be faulted to the Music Hall, for it is customary at concerts to NOT use moving drapery, since the tradition is to emulate a standard concert hall which does not usually have a true stage or proscenium, and therefore no real drapery. The other uses of a true stage (legit theatre, opera, ballet, etc.) DO make use of moving/changing draperies to signal the opening, middle parts, and closing of a production, but not so for concerts. Still, I lament with you that the use of the wonderful House Curtain in RCMH (the vast Contour-type of curtain) is evidently so rarely used or moved these days. Who knows? Maybe the stage hands' union now requires a special person just to operate the Contour House Curtain, and that would be another expense for the management, which now exists for profit, NOT showmanship. It is sad, for as was said earlier, the raising and use of the vast golden curtain was part of the magic that made the Hall above and beyond the other theatres. We can but hope that a wiser and less money-focused administration will take over there in future.

How long were RKO and Radio City associated? Did the stage shows under RKO exclusively feature acts/stars under RKO contract? Or were the stage shows always produced in-house. Of course vaudeville was all-but gone by the time Radio City opened, but as the RKO Palace continued to operate with a "variety" policy for many years, I'm curious if RKO's contract players dominated the Music Hall's "great stage."

The only hope for the Music Hall would for the city and various sponsers to take over. It needs to be treated and maintained as a city landmark as much as Grants Tomb or Central Park. It needs to be managed by people who appreciate its history and resources. I believe the last year the Hall showed a profit was '55. After that I imagine it was propped up by the Rockefellers.
But this is a city that will spend a fortune of the taxpayers money on a sports stadium in Manhattan something that they wouldn't even do in the beginning of the last century when the city was a fraction of its current density. This will cause us great security risks , congestion, and financial burdens while its very rich sponsers become even richer.
So I guess we won't be seeing football games at the Music Hall but how about a golf range?

The RKO Theatres circuit managed the Music Hall through most of the 1930s. During that period, many RKO Radio movies played at the RCMH, but the stage shows were always in-house and did not feature big "names" from anywhere. If I recall correctly, the radio team of Amos & Andy, which had a movie contract with RKO, did appear in one of the first stage shows, but that was the only time that stars from any medium did.

Was Citizen Kane ever shown at the Music Hall in 1941? I know it didn't have a regular run there for the general public (although it was supposed to at one time), but I think I heard something about a special screening for RKO executives and/or theater owners.

I believe according to Pauline Kael it was booked for the Hall but then Hearst put pressure on the Rockefellers to pull it.
Another great movie that the Hall was planning to show was Streetcar Named Desire which was pulled when the Catholic church was considering giving the film a C rating.
Occasionally the Hall had name talent but this was pretty rare.
Annette Funicello appeared on stage with the film Pollyana.

Once in a whle, a star of the movie would also appear as part of the stage show. In December of 1936, musical child star Bobby Breen appeared in the movie "RAINBOW ON THE RIVER" and was featured in the stage show.

I remember a little program light that was built into the back of the seat in front of me. I think these lights were removed by the 1960's.

OH MY GOD! Did anyone else see those pictures of RCMH on television last night? The stage is a basketball court. They built some sort of hidious frame around the stage and hoops were installed and I saw men playing basketball. The image of that has been burned into my mind and I am cursed to see that forever.
How dare they do such a thing? obviously they have no respect at all. Do yourself a favor and do not allow yourself to see the hall in her present state.

One can thank the Republican National Convention being at Madison Square Garden, the Garden is unavalible for the next 5 weeks. All home basketball games had to be moved somewhere.
It is not going to be a permanent installation.

Yes, it's definitely the fault of the Republicans. I mean, how dare they have a convention!?! It's not at all the fault of poor planning on Madison Square's part, and it's definitely not the fault of Radio
City Music Hall's management, who apparently have no standards at all and are only beginning to reveal the depths to which they will sink if it means making a buck!

"Citizen Kane" had its NYC premiere engagement at the RKO Palace. I doubt that it was ever "trade screened" at RCMH, but it might have been shown in the theatre's private projection room.

"Streetcar..." wasn't the only film originally expected to open at the RCMH but nixed (It went to the Warner...previously the Strand)after it was screened by the executives. "A Place in the Sun" was also removed (too sexy) from the year's roster...it went instead to the Capitol. Anyone know why "Annie Get Your Gun" went to Loew's State instead of RCMH. RCMH chose "Father of the Bride." Annie seems so much more a Hall picture and "Father..." more typical of the Loew's State fare. Interesting trivia: "The Barretts of Wimpole Street" (Jennifer Jones) was the first film (although a good one)to gross under $100,000 in its opening week in more than 20 years.

Loew's State needed "big" movies more than RCMH, which is why "Annie Get Your Gun" opened there instead. MGM's "The Three Musketeers" and "Easter Parade" are two more examples of that...There were rumors that RCMH booked "The Barretts of Wimpole Street" as a favor to David O. Selznick, whose wife, Jennifer Jones, starred in it.

SimonL--
Yes about the abbreviated stage shoes--in the 1950s they eliminated the specialty acts between the ballet and the choral group and between that group and the Rockettes. In the '60s, the film's length mattered less, and they ran full-length stage shows for "Sayonara (Christmas '57) and "Auntie Mame" (Christmas '58) even though those pictures ran well over two hours. Yes, I remember the Roxy's "Indian Fall" quickie with "Giant. Better I recall the Roxy's show with "giant"'s predecessor, "Bus Stop," where they exploityed their full repertoire of stage sets in a constant display of over-the-top scene changewhile the Ice Blades and Roxyettes skated on and on--they even raised the cyclorama toi show the bare back wall, rerevealing the odd triangular stage plan on which the house was built. Among nuttier stage shows at RCMH, I recall for "Ivanhoe" in summer '52 a segment on the Civil War featuring photo projections of military gore, by turns macabre and maudlin, as the (I think( Tusgeegee Choir sang patriotic period songs. For "Green Mansions" (Easter late '50s), the show featured the multti0octave-range Yma Sumak singing away in an a San Amazonian setting while the Rockettes danced a Brazilian routine (Amazonian, but with left-breasts intact) to match the thematics of the picture (they also blew in Odorama of tropical scents to matrch the olefactory senses). Another match between picture-and-stage-show was with "Singing in the Rain" (Easter '52): the finale deployed the rain sprinklers (reral water) on a set of cast-tourists aagainst a Rockefeller Center backdrop, with Rockettes dancing to the tune of "Singing' in the Rain," a frenetic segue into the picture that followed. Whew. Don't get me started. .

SimonL and others--

sorry for the typos above--I find it hard to type blindly after running out of space in the visible box allowed -- is there a way to edit one's comments before submitting them tothe site:
Box Office Bill

To Box Office Bill: Thanks a lot for sharing your memories of the Radio City stage shows. You really describe them well - you have a great memory. I've been to about 15 shows there but the only one I can remember featured a stand-up comic during the engagement of "2001" in 1975. One of his jokes was "I'm so old I can remember when the air was clean and sex was dirty", and nobody laughed, out of the thousands of people that were there. I wish I could have seen some of the shows you talked about instead.

Father of the Bride makes sense for the Music Hall but The Next Voice You Hear?!(You can read about it in the current Vanity Fair with the Reagans on the cover.) This was obviously a favor to Dory Schary.
Annie would have been great at the Hall. And Meet Me in St Louis would have been a much better choice than National Velvet and what about them playing a Date with Judy instead of Easter Parade?
And what was it with the lousy Green Mansions as the '59 Easter show?
And then the violent, brutal, action World War 2 film Operation Crossbow as the 65 Easter show?
Even Charade was a pretty dark and violent film for a Christmas show.

I imagine that MGM (and probably RCMH) thought "Annie Get Your Gun" a disaster (remember the firing of Judy Garland). Even the Capitol would have been more prestigious than the State (and the Capitol still had stage shows then). It's odd thatRCMH instead chose "The Great Caruso," and odder still that this operatic middle-brow went on to break records (I remember that the stage show ended with the Underwater Ballet, the first time I'd seen that chestnut). The newspapers announced that "Streetcar" was pulled because "Caruso"'s hold over pushed back its date too far. But I think SimonL's explanation is accurate. In 1956 RCMH did not flinch from such adult films as "I'll Cry Tomorrow," "Picnic," and "Tea and Sympathy." As a young teen at the time, I could size up those pictures pretty well. For "The Next Voice You Hear" (yes, I saw that dreadful pic there too), the July 4-oriented stage show ended with the famous electriocal fireworks, and Rockettes clad all in re-white-'n-blue. Patriotic fever indeed. Box Office Bill

With such films as "Sayonarra," and "Auntie Mame," (both 2 1/2 hours) the stage show NEVER topped 30 minutes. Regular stage shows ran from 40 to 55 minutes. The show could never run past 3 hours total thus allowing for 4 stage shows and five films...except during Christmas and Easter Week. For "Sayonarra" and "Auntie Mame," the doors opened (except Sunday) at 6:45 am with the picture starting at 7 am. Can you imagine getting your family up and dressed and over to the Music Hall at that time of day? But if you didn't, you could depend on standing in line for three hours. For those that didn't like lines or stage shows, you could go to the Music Hall (during the 1940s and early 1950s) and see a midnight showing of the movie alone (it followed the normal last showing of the complete stage and film show) that began with the stage show around 9:20 with the film at 10:10. I think the worst Christmas picture that ever had was "The Impossible Years," (1968)with David Niven. Yet it broke attendance records.

"The Great Caruso" seemed perfectly suited to RCMH, which always included some classical music in its stage shows and employed a resident ballet corps and symphony orchestra.

Do you think Impossible Years(yes pretty awful and I have a taste for mindless 60's comedies) was worse than No No Nanette which didn't even make it to New Years or Balalaika?
And yes Lanza was an ideal RCMH star.
Any other nominees for worst holiday films? (The 70's dont'count.)

The IDEAL Christmas movie would have been "White Christmas," but RCMH had to play it for Thanksgiving so that Paramount could release it wide at the year-end. "Deep In My Heart" was the Christmas attraction that year (1954)...And by the way, what was the first MGM feature to ever play RCMH?

I'll take a guess and say "A Tale of Two Cities" (1935).

Here's an oddity: For "Spirit of St. Louis in March '56, the organ interludes between movie and stage show were set in a way I'd never experienced before or after at RCMH. Instead of using the golden houselights on the contour curtain and arches, they lit the latter in sky blue to match the movie's theme. And instead of using organ #1 on the left as usual, they used organ #2 on the right (which they dusted off from time to time, and occasionally used in conjunction with the former for special effect; was the former being renovated at that particular time?). I remember thinking, jees, all these tourists here for the first and probably last time will never see the famous "sunset" effect of the golden curtain. Some might recall that the newsreels and coming-attraction announcement always took place under dimly blue-lit arches to anable patrons arriving and departing between movie and stage shows to see their way..

BoxOfficeBill: You don't provide any E-mail address in your Contact information on your Member page ( http://cinematreasures.org/members/profile_view_ind.php?id=3642 ), so to answer your question as to editing your submissions here, the answer is 'no', you cannot edit them once you submit them, though you can hit "Preview" and see how it will look, and if you find a mistake, you can hit your BACK button and return to editing the Comment, and then hit either "Preview" again, or "Submit" if you find no more problems. Once you hit "Submit" there is no more chance to edit it.

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Note that if you are going to submit a URL, as I did above for your Member Page, it must have a space immediately before and immediately after the whole URL to enable their program to understand that it is a URL and highlight it accordingly. Do not use special characters not found on your keyboard; they will not reproduce on the site reliably. In many cases this means that your quote marks (') or (") should be set to the default (standard, NOT "Smart Quotes") ones, and you should set your 'dash' character (--) to be two hyphens as shown here, since the true 'dash' character, which is available from your Characters/Symbols page, is not found on a standard keyboard and will not reproduce in most on-line systems reliably. Hope this helps. Best Wishes.

Getting back to the stage shows:


Getting back to the stage shows: Does anyone remember "Dancing Waters," the gorgeous water falls display that was introduced (in a stage show called "Many Waters")at the Music Hall with the film "The Bad and the Beautiful." Dancing waters was also used to spectacular effect in a French themed show that recreated The Gardens of Versaille with "The Reluctant Debutante." Speaking of unusual stage shows (but down the block)...The Roxy had the entire New York Philharmonic four times a day on stage with "The Black Rose."

SimonL....A million thanks for all the information on the Roxy and Radio City Music Hall. I have some questions about the projection booths in both theatres. Who was responsible for maintaining the showmanship aspect of things? Were the projectionists hired specifically for each theatre of was it a union placement? Were the booths at the Roxy and RCMH similar in size? I understand the Roxy booth was in the front of the balcony, at 90 degrees to the screen to prevent distortion. Anything else you provide about the projection function would be appreciated.
Thank you.

The first MGM feature to be shown at RCMH was "Young Dr. Kildare," in October, 1938...In 1933, its first year of operation, RCMH showed 21 features from RKO, 14 from Fox, 5 from Warner Brothers, 4 from Columbia, and 1 each from Paramount, Universal, and United Artists. The lack of MGM product was probably due to the rivalry between RKO Theatres and Loew's Theatres, with the latter using the Capitol and the Astor for most of the major MGM releases (rarely Loew's State, where vaudeville was king and the movies usually move-overs).

I visited the RCMH booth just before the restoration and wondered about what has changed. At the time there were 5 projectors, 3 of them were Simplex 35/70 and the other two were Simplex XL 35. All were equipt with a Xenon light source, the carbon arc lamps having been removed a while ago.Dolby Digital had been installed and they were running on 6k reels. No platter in site ,thank heavens, I hope it stayed that way. At one time RCMH employed multiple union projectionist on each shift, two would monitor the changeovers, one calling out the que marks as not to miss them. A chief projectionist was also on hand.The reels were rewound by hand and inspected after each showing. Any one with more info?

Jim-- many thanks for the technical info --

My nominees for sub-standard holiday movies are “Easy to Love” (Christmas ’53) and “RoseMarie” (Easter ’54). As an eleven-year-old, I found it unbearable to watch the tight-teethed Esther Williams and stolid Van Johnson in the first, and the diminutive Ann Blythe and stage-Latin Fernando Lamas in the second. The best thing about the Christmas movie was that finally RCMH had installed a reasonable (though flat, not curved) wide screen. The Thanksgiving movie, “Kiss Me Kate,” was shown on the flat, square-ish old MagnaScope sheet that RCMH had used instead of a proper new Miracle Mirror screen in 1953. And they famously declined to project it in 3D. Hoping against hope, I crossed my fingers that on the day I saw it, the management might finally come to its senses and distribute polaroid glasses. But, alas, no such luck. The thrill of the Christmas show for me was that, as a movie-mad kid, I had just received the most extravagant Xmas present any kid could ever imagine, an 8mm movie camera, and so I brought it to film the Nativity pageant. My biggest disappointment was that not a single image developed at all, except for a blurry head of Mary spotlighted briefly in the final creche tableau. Of course, the Nativity’s dimly lit nocturnal set was not good for any photo-shoot at all. Someone has asked whether anyone took movies of early RCMH stage shows, and this might explain why. The 2.8 aperture on my camera simply couldn’t pick up even a fully-lit stage from the audience’s distance.
The Christmas show’s new screen had been installed in anticipation of the first MGM CinemaScope film, “Knights of the Round Table,” which followed in January. Again hoping against hope, I kept my fingers that the stage-crew might curve this vast screen for the new format (perhaps with a giant crowbar, or some such thing). But, alas, flat projection was here to stay at RCMH. I anticipated that the stage show would be stripped down to highpoint the movie (after all, the Roxy had dropped stage shows altogether when it brought in CinemaScope). As things turned out, it was one of the best stage shows that I ever remembered seeing at RCMH. The Rockettes’ number was set against a perspectival backdrop of RCMH’s 50th Street façade, and began with a stage-door Johnny greeting each dancer with flowers and chocolates as she emerged from the set’s stage-door. An announcer named each dancer as she stepped out, and the audience applauded for every one of them. As the stage filled up with all thirty-six, the effect proved tremendous when the lineup reached completion and broke into precision dance. The music with its sultry jazzy-blues rhythm, “Amy Doesn’t Dance Here Any More,” struck my pre-pubescent imagination as really sexy.
The following attraction was “Long, Long Trailer,” and I recall its stage show as the height of sophistication, thinking that when I grew up, this would be the kind of showmanship I’d truly appreciate. It was a Russell Markert production, which meant less spectacle and more art, and the music offered an all-Cole Porter score. The opening choral number was “Another Opening of Another Show,” and it dawned on me that the producers must have been sketching their program a few months earlier when “Kiss Me Kate” was playing, and that they took inspiration from the film. It offered me a good lesson in planning ahead. The Easter show that April was a disaster, and not just because of the movie. I recall on stage enormous pastel-colored Easter eggs in tones of yellow, green, and pink that really didn’t coordinate, with a kind of cheap cardboard look to it. But by that time I was already into staging my own 8mm spectacles of some quality (mostly poor quality) and could think myself a critic who’d earned the right to judge even the best work of others.

As mjc wants to know about the differences between the Roxy and RCMH projection booths, may I suggest that he contact both The League of Historic American Theaters (lhat.com) and The Theater Historical Society of America (http://www2.hawaii.edu/~angell/thsa/. Also the definitive Roxy info can be found in "The Best Remaining Seats" by Ben Hall. It is out of print, but libraries and buffs are sure to have it.

Simon is right that the Theatre Historical Soc. is the quintessential resource on most any theatre, especially the ROXY, since all photos shown in the late Ben Hall's "The Best Remaining Seats ..." as well as both of the issues of their MARQUEE magazine devoted to the ROXY, are retained at their Archive, and all materials are available for reference or duplication. The URL which Simon lists for them is correct, but they have been using an Internet convention called an "alias" for some years now, which makes their URL, or Internet address, easier to remember and type: www.HistoricTheatres.org

I suspect that the decision to show "Kiss Me Kate" flat was due mainly to the problems associated with the distribution of viewing glasses. The theatre might have to hand out as many as 6,000 pairs per performance, which required extra personnel and would slow down entries and exits. The movie was shown in 3-D when it hit the Loew's circuit, but even its largest theatres (Paradise, Valencia, Metropolitan, etc.) were much smaller than RCMH.

Simon, Vito and Jim:
Thanks for replying. I have the Ben Hall book but there is very little in there about the projection function at the Roxy. He mentions there was a large projection staff at the time it opened but there is not much other info and no photo's.
I'll check with the Theatre Historical Society ( I used to be a member) to see if they have anything else on file.
There is a great 360 degree picture of the projection booth at Radio City Music Hall on their website. There is not a lot of equipment in but I can imagine what an impressive place it would have been at one time.
I worked as a trainee projectionist for over a year when I was in my teens and still have the bug.I visited the projection booth at the Ohio Theatre in Columbus several years ago and it was as if time had never changed. Same projectors, carbon arcs and sound system I had worked on in the theatre I was at in 1960.

I was just thinking, RCMH could have presented "Kiss me Kate"
in 3-D without intermission, since they had enough projectors to make a 3-D reel changeover. That is what the Paramount, with four projectors, did with "House Of Wax" and "Charge At Feather River"

mjc, Very few theatres run reel to reel carbon arc now a days, but some remain with Xenon reel to reel. Everyone has gone platter happy, even the single screen Zigfield, which has two projectors in the booth, uses a platter. What a boring job that projectionist must have.

vito:

"Boring" is right. Seems like its a just a matter of turning the projectors on and off now. One person makes up the show and sticks it on the platter..and thats about it.
When I was working it was very much as you described at RCMH. Always two projectionists and a rewind guy on a shift, a chief projectionist breathing down your neck to make sure there were no mistakes. At intermission time on continuous shows it was wild....one guy operating the lights and curtains, one guy changing lenses and gates for Cinemascope feature or previews, reels to be rewound rolling across the floor to the rewind guy with its replacement being rolled back. Everything was timed out. The audience had no idea what was going on. I remember at one time there was sign over each of the ports which read "Your performance is the audience's pleasure". Amen.
So it is good to know the amount of work that went on at RCMH. I wish I could have seen a movie/live show there. I visted in 1980 but it was all a live show.

Vito and everyone:

I just want to clarify my previous post to say that I did not work at Radio City Music Hall. I wish I had. The work I referred to was when I was a trainee projectionist in England in 1960.

mjc, I wondered about that rolling the reels around on the floor. I somehow did not think that happened at RCMH.Thanks for clearing that up.

Vito:

We got pretty good at it too!

I am continually in the process of putting the film schedules for the great old movie palaces (1960-1975) on their respective listings here on the Cinema Treasures website. Check other theaters in NYC, PHL, DC, PGH and other big cities, as I hope to get around to all of them eventually. It is most interesting to see the similarities and differences in film scheduling in different cities. Thanks.

In one of the above posts asking about union projectionist placements. In each area local there was what is called a bidding process. In which if a job opens up at a theatre, it is placed on a bidding sheet and all member can bid on this job. Or if the theatre is a special venue the company or chain can ask for or choose an operator them selfs. From the bid sheet a member could send a bid by mail to the local office before the closed of the bid process. Then out of that the members with the lowest seniority number would be offered the job at that theatre. (Lowest seniority number like ones and twos etc... are better than 10's or 20's, so the lower the number the longer you have worked as a projectionist.) In the Los Angeles market in the union contract at one time stated that theatres seating more than 1000 seats had to employ two projectionists. And the Roadshow House projectionists would get $50.00 per performance, remember that was during the days of Roadshow of two a day shows.

William is quite correct, I was a union projectionist in New York for many years and the jobs were awarded just as he said. In the early years with a low seniority number I worked as a relief projectionist and would travel from theatre to theatre covering vacations.When a projectionist vacated a job the bids would go out and I would work the booth untill the bids were closed and the job awarded.In addition whenever a roadshow was presented in 70mm, two projectionists were on duty at all times no matter how big the house. Incidendently, $50-$75 per show was pretty good money in those days, we only worked about 3 to 4 hours per shift. On a Roadshow engagement we were required to be in the booth one hour before show time, and half hour on regular continuous shows. engagements.

William and Vito:

Thanks for the responses. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

Vito what roadshow engagements di you cover for?

so...how does one go about becoming a projectionist??

The golden age of being a true projectionist is all but over. By saying that I mean, during that era you had a operator or two in every theatre booth in all the big cities. And you only handled one screen not the 10 or 20 screens of todays cinemas. In those days you worked your way up to the better theatres and if you worked the relief board. You got to work a lot more theatres and work with many different types of theatre projection equipment. And if you were good in the booth the regular operator would ask for you to work his vacation time. During that time it was a profession that paid very well and you could make a living on it. It was a skill of mastering the equipment in the booth and the lighting and curtains to make it all look like it was all done with machines. But it was all in the timing of everything, the footage, the speed of your curtains, the types of light fixtures etc... . Today all you do is thread the projector, set a timer or push the button and everything is done with automation or pre-programed. To become a union projectionist at one time, you had tho call the business agent for the local and ask, then you get presented to the executive board and if there is a opening for apprenticeships then you would be sent to a few booths to see if you would be a good candidate as an operator. And you would pay a fee to become a member of the union. After that point you would be placed of the out of work list and the business agent would assign you to work. Remember there was a lot more jobs available as a projectionist than today. So you would work your way on the extra board and every month there would be a
job or a few jobs on the bid sheet. Now on the bid sheet you would go up againist members with better or equal seniority numbers for the jobs. The older members would get awarded the better theatre jobs. Remember also that there was many older single screen theatres and adult theatre running too. Most of the times the newer members would work or win bid on the adult houses till the next round of bidding. And after time and a lot of work, you might get a theatre in the First Run theatres district. Today you work your way up from being a usher/doorman to the booth. Now with all the automation, Xenon lamps, platters, one or two booth people can run a 10-20 screen plex. With the major chains cutting most of their professional projectionists to limited service, the usher/doorman operators run the show. The major chains most of the time pays way under $10.00 an hour for that job. So the days of being a projectionist and making a living are long gone.
Today I still make change-overs and keep the reels moving for my audiences. I'm still a projectionist.

William:

When I lived in England in 1960 the unions had nothing to do with hiring. You applied for a job as projectionist at any theatre you wanted. The pay was not very good though. You began as a rewind boy and moved up to the fourth...then third.....second and after a few years the Chief's job where the pay was still not particularly good. Most people had to move around to go up the ladder. At the larger theatres at that time there was a rewind boy and two projectionists on each shift. The rewind boy doubled up on the lights at intermission time. At the Odeon Leicester Square in London, you had to have been a chief projectionist for a certain amount of time before you could be hired onto the regular projection staff. You had to know your electrical stuff and your showmanship backwards.
When I moved to Hamilton, Ontario, Canada in 1961, it was much as you described in the US. I wanted to continue with my part-time projection work while I was in high school but it was very difficult to get into an apprenticeship program. It was all single operator booths. Showmanship was almost non-existent in Hamilton in those days.
I am glad I had a taste of real showmanship on the part of the projectionists. Roadshow movies (eg South Pacific) were always rehearsed prior to the first night so the presentation and timing was as good as it could be.
I can imagine how good Radio City Music Hall's presentation must have been when there was also a stage show.

Vincent, my roadshow days were a long time ago, however I remember a few standouts such as, "Sound Of Music" (70mm and 35mm)
"Oliver" (70mm), "Ben Hur" (70mm) "My Fair Lady" (70mm) "Hello Dolly" and Grand Prix (70mm Cinerama) I do remember the last one which was "Fiddler On The Roof" in 35mm with 4 track mag sound.
Prior to the opening, a dress rehersal would be done to check the print and set volume levels as well as timing the lights and curtains for the overture, intermission and exit music. Sometimes as in the case of "Hello Dolly" the studio (fox) attended to put their two cents in. As for becoming a projectionist, in my day you had to pass a written test and then take a practical exam which was given at a theatre in New York, then if you passed both tests you were issued a licence and the business agent would present you to the executive board exactally as outlined by William.

The following Message was in the program for the Radio City Music Hall for the date Wednesday Evening April 12th, 1978 from Charles R. Hacker. (Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer)

A MESSAGE TO OUT PATRONS

The curtain went up on Radio city Music Hall on December 27, 1932. Tonight, 45 years later, you will be seeing the very last performance of our traditional stage and film presentation. In the short time since the announcement of the theatre's closing, thousands of you have written us wonderfully warm letters about what the theatre has meant to you. We do appreciate your sentiments.

During these past 45 years, over 650 films and shows have been presented here. The Music Hall is not only "The Showplace of the Nation" and the greatest theatre in the world, but perhaps it is safe to say it is the greatest theatre in the history of the world. Having played to over 238 million people, it is a showbusiness phenomenon-unique!

So why then must we close? The painful fact is that our costs have been steadily outrunning our income. while we still have thousands of devoted patrons, in the end they were not generating enough revenue--and on the Music Hall's scale of operation--"not enough" translates into many millions of dollars.

We have persevered as long as we could, and it is a real tribute to you, our audience. And patrons, please permit me to take opportunity to thank the Music Hall's magnificent staff, past and present, for their dedication, accomplishments and showmanship. I have been very fortunate to have been associated with this fine organization for 30 years.

Thank you--all of you-who have patronized the Radio City Music Hall. Our deepest gratitude for being such a demanding and responsive audience.

Sincerely,
CHARLES R. HACKER
Excutive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

On this night it was a Variety Club Foundation of New York Benefit Performance. The feature was "Crossed Swords".

The top should read "A MESSAGE to OUR PATRONS" sorry about the typo.

Box Office Bill on the Rivoli site talks about some of the climactic dramatic moments in film that were shown in Magnascope at the Music Hall. I was wondering if anyone who was going to the Music Hall in the late forties early fities could tell us if the big musical climactic moments were shown that way as well. For example the Varsity Drag from Good News, The American in Paris ballet from same film and the Broadway Melody from Singin In the Rain.

I don't know if they used it for big musical numbers, because it would tend to cut off the feet of the dancers, a problem that became very apparent with the introduction of CinemaScope. I recall seeing Magnascope used only twice at RCMH, during the animal stampede in "King Solomon's Mines" and the train wreck in "The Greatest Show On Earth." But I never attended RCMH prior to 1950, so I can't speak for previous decades.

I thought that Magnascope was simply an enlarged screen. Was there cropping involved? And how much?

As a regular patron of the Music Hall during the late 1940s and 1950s, (and an usher in the 1950s)and going regularly as a subscriber (reserved seats) with my parents, I have no memory of the screen enlarging for climactic scenes (something that would stand out as special)at any of the films that played there. Yes, the screen enlarged after the credits as when such films as "Shane," and a few others played there (that didn't last long), notwithstanding all the wide screen films after "Knights of the Roundtable," that otherwise made no fuss in presentation over the the film that was shown in wide-screen format. But getting back to the Rivoli, that theater was always at the forefront of presentation. I especially remember "Samson and Delilah" (which played day and date with the Paramount)being shown on some new type of screen (anyone know what that was?,) as well as a special surround sound going back to "Portrait of Jenny."

When RCMH was presenting stage show and feature, were there short subjects and/or trailers?

To Will: In 1970 I can remember seeing a short subject with "The Out-of-Towners" , and a trailer for the scheduled next attraction at the Music Hall, "Darling Lili", playing with "Airport" (even though it wasn't the next attraction. "The Out-of-Towners" was. Don't know what happened there - maybe "Darling Lili" wasn't finished on time).

I was looking through the programs I saved from RCMH and forgot all about "The Blue Bird". Does anyone remember that one? Elizabeth Taylor and Ava Gardner. It was billed as the first US-Soviet co-production. George Cukor directed it. I have never seen this film again on tv or video.

Absolutely. Here's the deal. The idea was to give patrons approximately 3 hours of entertainment. The stage show portion would run anywhere from 22 minutes (with a 2 hr 30 minute film like "The Greatest Show on Earth," or "The Nun's Story," or "Sayonara."). If the film was only 75 to 90 minutes or so, as with many of the films during the 1930s, the stage show could run up to an hour. The balance of the screen time would be filled with either The March of Time (18 minutes), the newest Walt Disney cartoon, or one or even two 10 minute shorts, and a newsreel(their own compliation). Sometimes all were included in the program, added or removed during the course of the day, depending on where the management needed to fill or gain time. Only The March of Time or the Disney cartoon would ever get credit in the printed program. The organ breaks would also be used to fill time (to the great joy of the patrons). Sunday morning was the best time for an extended organ concert, as the house opened almost an hour before the feature began, and the organist would often play for a half hour.

Look at what we used to get when we went to the movies. A theatre to die for along with a movie, stage show and the organ. We were fortunate to have it until 1979, I dont think any other theatre had this policy after the 1950's did they?

The Rivoli Theatre had the same type of Magnascopic screen as RCMH. At the Rivoli for "Samson and Delilah," it was only used for the climactic scene of the destruction of the temple. The Magnascopic screen was a combination of an enlarging lens on the projector and changing the "masking" around the screen so that the screen was large enough to accomodate the bigger image. At the end of the scene, projection would be switched to an ordinary lens and the screen masking would return to normal.

I worked as a front lobby doorman at the Music Hall during The Blue Bird.The only patrons the Music Hall had in the evening by this time were high school spring trips to New York. After sightseeing during the day they would come to the Music Hall at night. During this film the patrons would exit the auditorium in droves and hang out in the lobby until the stage show started(I never was able to sit through the entire film myself.)The stage show itself was pretty bad and its amazing the Music Hall was still able to limp along for another year or two as the only people going there were the few desperate tourists still going to New York in the latter 70's. A very sad time which as far as the Music Hall and Rockefeller Center were concerned only got worse(unless of course you like watching basketball games in theaters and like shopping at Banana Republic.)

I don't think that the Music Hall ever advertised or publicized its Magnascope. It was just something that they used to surprise and amaze the audience, and to make the theatre seem more unique, aka "showmanship," which has all but vanished in the cinemas of 2004.

SimonL-- Thanks for the notes about the program fillers in the '40s-'50s. They concur exactly with my memories. The Rivoli named its expanded screen "the Cycloramic screen." I describe its use in this site's listing for the Rivoli. Aside from the Destruction of the Temple in "Samson and Delilah" (December '49), I did not see it used again at that theater. In Summer '53, the Rivoli (like every other NYC house) installed its all-purpose CinemaScope screen, which it used until converting to Todd-AO in October '55. In my movie-going experience, RHMH used its Magnascope screen for the scenes described above, as well as for the sea storm sequence in "Plymouth Adventure" and the Busby Berkeley aquatic scene in "Million Dollar Mermaid," in November and December '52 respectively. My parents told me that RCMH used it for the horserace scene in "National Velvet" as well. The Rivoli's Cycloramic screen raised my seven-year-old consciousness to delerious heights, so whenever I saw it at RCMH, I snapped to attention. I expected that the theater would have used it for all its "big" pictures, and was chagrined when it didn't. Except for the Esther Williams splasher, I recall it for no other MGM musical, including "The Great Caruso," "Show Boat," "An American in Paris," "Singin' in the Rain," and a bunch of others that I saw there (the latter-day "That's Entertainment" of course deployed the device for excepts from these films). I can still taste my disappointment when RCMH withheld it from scenes in such spectaculars as "Kim," "Scaramouche," and "Ivanhoe." (You may gather correctly that I was a pint-sized nut about that projection device.) There would have been no concern about cropping, since the Magnascope screen was framed in the standard 1.33 ratio. With "Shane" in May '53, RCMH used it (now named "the Panoramic Screen" and still at 1.33 ratio) for the entire picture, in lieu of installing a new curved screen, and continued to do so until introducing its properly proportioned all-purpose screen the following December, in anticipation of CinemaScope. There's a swell picture of the latter in the journal "Theatre Catalogue" (1954-55). I know of no other first-run B'way theaters that used Magnascope in the late '40s-'50s, or at least I saw none other used there or then. The Roxy, a candidate, did not, because it projected its films onto a black-bordered sheet hanging in front of voluminous, dimly-lit lavender curtains. For a picture of the remodeled (but still old-screen) Roxy in December '52, with its then shamefully draped proscenium, see the above mentioned "Theatre Catalogue" (1952-53).

I hate to post-script my contribution, but I do want to register my crabby memory that in the early '50s the screen at RCMH had an annoying distraction: you could see the lines where its panels had been sewn together. I know that the much-E-Bayed Souvenir Pictorial of that time proclaims a totally seamless screen. But the truth was otherwise. The CinemaScope screen consisted of seven panels (each 4’ wide) sewn together horizontally, unlike the panels at other theaters that were joined vertically with less noticeable sutures. For its regular wide-screen format, the masking rose to reveal an eighth horizontal panel, even as the side maskings closed in for a 1.66 ratio (RCMH seemed always to have had a narrower ratio than other theaters, even when the format was 1.33—an optical illusion perhaps?). In any case, the black lines crossing the screen were maddeningly annoying. Every kid in the theater noticed it and would draw attention to it. Parents would shh us and tell us not to spoil the show. But the sutures remained. At some point in 1956, around the run of “Friendly Persuasion” if I remember correctly, RCMH finally installed a truly seamless screen, or so it seemed. Or maybe because I was older and perhaps going blind from teenage activities, I didn’t see the familiar old lines so acutely. To me in the early ‘50s, the most impressive wide-screen was at the Capitol. Gently curved and with barely perceptible seams, it was proportioned at 1.85 and it covered nearly the entire proscenium. It awed me in August ’53 at “From Here to Eternity” (with stereophonic sound, too, which RCMH did not offer until much later). Later the Capitol reduced the size of its wide-screen somewhat (in truth, its larger size probably invited graininess), but still used its flawless facilities for such films as “War and Peace,” “The Pride and the Passion,” “Vertigo,” and others of that era.

Do any of you very knowledgeable gentlemen know if the Capital projected Vertigo in VistaVision? I can recall RCMH and the Paramount having VistaVision projection, what about the Capital.

When I saw 7 Brides at the Music Hall in the late 70's the cinemascope screen seemed wider than any panavision or 70MM film I had ever seen there(and no seams.) It was great except for the Ansco color. Could I have been mistaken?
Also weren't the MGM musicals such as Brigadoon at this point in '54 presented in stereo at the Hall?

I remember some stereo effect with RCMH's first CinemaScope fims, viz. "Knights of the Round Table," and with others as well, notably the "Glorious Technicolor, Breathtaking CinemaScope, and StereoPhonic Sound" number in "Silk Stockings." But the device never seemed to me as, um, pronounced as it did at other theaters, chiefly and memorably at the Roxy. Perhaps the auditorium's vastness at RCMH diffused the sound? In all honesty, too, I remember a distracting echoic effect at RCMH, particularly when the house was less than full, as at the 10:30 am showings that my parents took me to as a kid. I hate to complain about the facilities at RCMH, because their grandeur certainly more than compensated for their recognizable failings. But sometimes other theaters worked as better venues for certain presentations. For "White Christmas," I recall a wider frame (at 1.85 rather than the usual 1.66 that RCMH used for conventional projection) but still its flat screen, with the same for later VistaVision that I saw there, principally "High Society" and the fabulous "North-by-Northwest." (I remember viewing the last one as a teen, from the third balcony where my friends and I could smoke cigarettes and anticipate going for a beer afterwards--NYC in those days!) As for VistaVision at the Capitol, I recall no special bally-hoo about it, and certainly no vast curvilinear screen as at the Paramount and Criterion.

Vincent
I am also reminded of another total dog I saw at RCMH, do you remember "Matilda-the Boxing Kangaroo" with Eliot Gould? I could not believe the music hall playing an AIP picture. At the same time was the Film Vincent Minnelli did for Liza and Ingrid Bergman called "A Matter of Time". AIP may have also released that. In spite of it all seeing even bad films there was still special. One of my happiest memories was seeing "Magic of Lassie" which I mentioned in an earlier post. Although I was already a teen it was still a kick seeing Lassie on stage in the stage show.

I too remember seeing "Magic of Lassie" at RCMH with Lassie on stage.
However, it was more memorable for one of the last big screen appearances of the late, great Alice Faye as the waitress in the diner.
I also remember "Matilda" What a super dud that was. They really scrapped the bottom of the barrel on that one.

I do remember those films playing at the Hall however at that point I had seen so many bad movies there that I couldn't stomach any more. It was just one dog(or kangaroo) after another. There was an Easter movie called Mr. Billion that they had to pull after a couple of weeks and stick in a Disney film about mining ponies which I think I saw a part of. I also took no pleasure in the minimalist stage shows which took place on a bare stage containing only a few people. They themselves looked pretty embarassed.
The only nice thing was that for the price of a movie ticket you could actually enter the place and spend some time there.

As so many of you are interested in the various widescreen processes, the projection ratios, the flat and curved screen, and what wide screen films premiered where, how, why and when, may I suggest you go to Widescreenmuseum.com. or widescreenmuseumlobby.com. It's a great site and one that you will undoubtedly go and stay until someone sends a posse out to look for you.

Well said vincent, I felt same way about the Roxy and Paramount, I went not only for the movie but sometimes just to melt away in the grandeur of it all, and in the 40s and 50s with very little air conditioning anywhere else, it was a great place to beat the heat.
As for RCNH and stereo sound, from 1954 till about 1960 most of the product from MGM and all of the product from FOX was available in four track magnetic sound.I believe all those MGM pictures, as well as some from Columbia, played the hall were in four track. The seperation did get lost at RCMH but there was no dening the quality of the sound. However, one had to sit in one of the mezzanines to notice the surrounds, which in the days before Dolby, were located in the ceiling. I believe RCMH management resisted placing surround speaker boxes all over the hall when 70mmm was installed, but when Dolby Digital came along surround speakers with gold covered speaker fabric popped up all the place, this of course, as ugly as they are, intensified the surround experience. Oh and yes Bill, I too remember "Today to get the people to attend the picture show" the great sterophonic sound song and dance number from "Silk Stockings"

Silk Stockings contains some of Astaires and Charisse's best dancing so to have seen that at the Music Hall in cinemascope and stereo-well it must have been great.
Does anybody know if North by Northwest played there in stereo?
Concerning sound, when I saw Singin in the Rain there in '75 they utilizzed some sort of fake stereo and while I usually hate that sort of thing it was beautifully done. Those wonderful MGM arrangements came through with such clarity and impact and the movie has never sounded as good since.
I also remember the sound for the musical numbers of Scrooge being very good especially in the finale scene where one had a sense of surround sound as the various musical factions converged(this is what I believe happened as I haven't seen the film since '70.)

Vincent, I never saw any magnetic prints of "North By Northwest"
I played the film a couple of times and the prints were always
optical (mono).By 1959 the mag stereo prints had begun to get scarce.
Only the 35mm versions of 70mm roadshow pictures were coming thru in mag sound. In adition since "North By Nothwest" was filmed in VistaVision and shown as a reduction print, I don't think it had stereo sound. Most VistaVision pictures were released mono with some Prespecta prints around. I also saw "Singin in the Rain" which was re-mixed in stereo and it didn't sound to bad, The worst offender of the re-mixed tracks had to be the re-release of "Gone with the Wind". What a disaster,especially the 70mm vesion. the surround track would simply go and and off, and since there was no real separation, just playing different parts of the dialogue and sound thru the surround speakers, well, it was awful The four track mag prints were of course just as bad. But it looked better in 35mm,
the 70mm prints looked all out of porportion. Lastly "Scrooge",
I believe played RCMH in 70mm, hense the great sound.

I remember the 70mm print looking washed out and dull compared to the 35mm version. Making it widescreen and projected on that enormous screen just seemed to fade the otherwise brilliant colors.

I remember thinking the same thing but it was the only print I saw so I figured the movie was shot that way. Especially bad was the 70mm blow up of Tom Sawyer during Easter of '73 which looked washed out and dull on the huge screen. I kept thinking how did color get so bad when just a few years before in the late '60s it had still been so vibrant. Even 1776 didn't look too good. I guess of the movies that I saw at the Hall the best looking outside of revivals was Airport. But that was Ross Hunter and the last of the old Hollywood big budget productions. The Todd AO didn't hurt either.
So how much would it cost to rent out the Hall get some great prints of some terrific movies and use the Hall for something other than a glorified warehouse for current cultural debris?
King Kong, Swing Time, and North by Northwest are my first choices.

Vito is, of course correct, in stating that they were mostly mono or Perspecta sound prints used in the mid to late fifties at the Music Hall. The Hall was not equipped to show magnetic 4 track prints because of the rejection of audiece-participation speakers in the auditorium and the product base being mainly MGM films. This was a major expense for exhibitors and was also damaging to the decor in many theatres. MGM and Paramount embraced Perspecta which gives a stereo directional effect from a mono soundtrack but in the stage range only. It did not require or benefit from speakers in the auditorium. 20th Century-Fox championed the much more expensive 4 track magnetic prints initially as part of their promotion of CinemaScope.The spectacular multi-directional sound from these prints was expensive for the studio and for the exhibitor but also meant that the print was only usable in one type of theatre and from usually only one studio. Meanwhile, because of the cost of these prints, they developed mag/optical prints. These carried 2 tracks of stereo and and a mono optical track but didnt start to be taken up until the late 50's. From then on 4 track was only used infrequently,mostly for event pictures or special prints for gala engagements. This continued up until the late seventies when Dolby became widespread.

Just because the wide release of a film was in a certain sound process or aspect ratio doesnt mean that other prints do not exist. The studios ran off prints in all sorts of strange variations in different cities. 'Scope films were released flat or rereleases of classics or even just new prints were run off in different processes. Having worked in a film exchange I remember having a print of "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" and "Call Me Madam" in 4 track, whilst having "Carousel" in a flat 1:1.66 and mono. One of the last special magnetic 4 track prints I saw was for a premiere of "Hair", which came direct from UA in Los Angeles and was returned to their library after the engagement.

Part of the reason the 70mm prints of "GWTW" looked so bad is they were printed up from Technicolor IB masters and converted to Metrocolor then blown up. The only way to get enough picture to fill the 70mm ratio was to zoom in on the 1.33 image sufficiently to get enough picture to fill the sides of the screen(a bit like the Pan&Scan process when they need to fill height when printing up from a widescreen image).Resulting an a blotchy,grainy and washed out look to a treasure most people remember as being akin to "Wizard of Oz" A ghastly mistake which MGM never repeated and the 70mm prints of "GWTW" were discarded. This didn't however stop them from trying it with other classics on the odd occasion as there was a 70mm print struck of "Camille" and used to fill the screen at RCMH when filming John Huston's "Annie"!!!

If I'm not mistaken, didn't "Camille" play the Capitol?

Yes, Simon, you are correct. Garbo's Camille did play at the Capitol.
However, Porter is referring to a clip of "Camille" that was blown up and used in the "Annie" movie musical. It was used quite erroneously. As I recall, Daddy Warbucks buys out a performance at Radio City and takes Orphan Annie et. al. to see Garbo in "Camille".
As far as I know, "Camille" never played RCMH.

I believe the only Garbo film to play RCMH was "Ninotchka." Interestingly "Silk Stockings," the musical remake also played there, as has been noted above.

I am not sure I agree with the statement about RCMH and mag sound. I thought it was used rather extensily during the mid to late 50s.RCMH also used magnetic sound when 70mm was installed. The Simplex 35/70 projectors have 35mm as well as 70mm magnetic readers.
The last four track I saw at RCMH was in 1972 with "The Red Tent".
"A Star Is Born" in 1976 was just about the last film to have four track, it included Dolby noise reduction which of course became Dolby optical stereo. Then "Star Wars" started the Dolby stereo revolution we enjoy today. Only Fox was completely commited to magnetic sound, all fox releases starting with "The Robe" in 1953 were available in either optical or magnetic versions. later on with the advent of mag/optical prints, all fox releases were distributed mag/optical untill 1963 when Fox abanded CinemaScope for Panavision. The last CinemaScope fox release, I believe was "Capriece" starting Doris Day. After that it was goodbye to mag sound at Fox and all Panavision prints were optical.Fox was going through some tough financial times then and the added cost of magnetic prints was one of the first to go. This brings up a question to which I never really recieved a satisfactory answer.
Why did Fox dump CinemaScope? I for one missed the extended scope Fox fanfare which disapeared with the switch to Panavision, which was never heard again untill "Star Wars" when Lucas changed "A Cinemascope production" to "A George Lucas Production", returning Mr. Newmans great fanfare to it's former glory.

Fox dumped CinemaScope because the name no longer drew crowds and the process itself proved inferior to Panavision. When MGM made "Green Mansions," they intended to film it in CinemaScope, but Audrey Hepburn was horrified by the close-ups that she did for test shots and insisted that they use another process. MGM ended up with a then small company called Panavision, which used a new lens invented by Robert E. Gottschalk.

I believe "Jailhouse Rock" was the first feature to be photographed witb the new anamorphic Panavision lenses.

MGM offered many of their stereo prints in both mono optical Perspecta, and 4-track mag/optical prints. This policy lasted until sometime in late 1957 when Perspecta was abandoned by the studio.

Thanks Warren, I long standing question of mine has been answered.
A lot of movie peole complained about CinemaScope and refused to use it. Making things worse in those days was the refusal on the part of the studios to pay Fox royalties to use the process, which spawned many ananorphic nightmares like SuperScope. MGM stayed with CinemScope until late 50s but others came up their own version like WarnerScope etc. Thank heavens we were able to project all of these anamorphic processes with the same lens, the only odd ball was SuperScope which required a different aperature plate than the others. Panavision is of course a superior anamorphic process. Perspecta never was accepted very much although the Paramount on Staten Island did have it.
By the way it sure is a great pleasure chatting with you guys!

Perspecta was installed by MGM in every Loew's theater, as well as the Paramount, Criterion, Capitol and possibly Strand theaters on Times Square. It was used by MGM, Paramount, Universal, Warner Bros, Allied Artists and United Artists. It lasted from late 1954 to 1957/58.

I've heard quite a few tracks through a restored Fairchild integrator. While it is panned mono, the mix (and careful use of separate gain levels for each channel) gives a very convincing illusion of stereo. We ran "Forbidden Planet" at the Loew's Jersey on a 50 foot screen, and the Perspecta track sounded pretty good!

" I for one missed the extended scope Fox fanfare which disapeared with the switch to Panavision"

Vito: Ah yes....what a wonderful fanfare that was. In the theatre I worked we used to crank the sound up a couple of notches when we opened up after the intermission and the curtain rose.....just to make sure the audience paid attention! My favourite movie music follow right after the 20th Century-Fox fanfare was "North To Alaska" with Johnny Horton singing the theme. What a great way to open a show.

Another question ...did the projectionists at RCMH operate the curtains, house lights and stage lights for the movie part of the show or was it all done by the stagehands union?

MartinC

Vito and Martin: Thanks for talking about the Fox CinemaScope fanfare. I'm grateful to George Lucas or whoever it was on "Star Wars" who was responsible for bringing it back. Speaking of Lucas, maybe it's my imagination but has anyone else noticed that on the last two Star Wars films (Episodes 1 & 2), Alfred Newman's Fox music sounds way too low, much lower than the Star Wars fanfare that follows it? Maybe this is Lucas's way of keeping 20th Cebtury Fox in their place - they just distribute the movies but he creates them ... I don't know.

My favorite movie music to follow the Fox fanfare? There are two of them, both from the '50's. "The King and I", with that glorious Alfred Newman arrangement of the March of the Siamese Children, and "Journey to the Center of the Earth", a terrifying blast of percussion and pipe organ courtesy of the Master, Bernard Herrmann.

Favourite music to follow Newmans great Fox fanfare and CinemaScope extension? The Fox music department and its head Alfred Newman embarked on hiring the greatest selection of film composers for CinemaScope product which was designed to bring the "world to your doorstep"

There was great music for the many moods of Fox CinemaScope. Manhattan chic/"How to Marry a Millionaire", Western drama/"Broken Lance", Grandeur/"Anastasia", Raunch,"Revolt of Mamie Stover", Drama/"Rains of Ranchipur" Exotica/"Boy on a Dolphin", Adventure/ "Soldier of Fortune", Musical/"The King and I" and just plain fun/ "The Girl Can't Help It"

How could you choose just one? But best seen mostly at the Roxy with magnetic sound.

Forget Dolby and all its sanitised technical sharpness. Give me the enormous depth and power of magnetic 4 or 6 track anytime, I can live with the hiss.

Bill mentioned the fanfare seamed a bit low, my complaint is the treatment given to the new Fox logo, introduced a few years ago, which includes rhe fanfare with the extension not quite sounding the way Newman wrote it. Almost sounds like some kids in the garage banging it out instead of a full orchestra. I also disaprove about the way the last few bars have been slowed down. These people are messing with a national treasure here and need to learn a little respect for the way the fanfare was written. One last gripe, the Fox logo shown without the fanfare, but some other music, as in "Farewell to Arms".(There I feel better now)
Porter mentioned great fox music, let's not forget the wonderful overture to "How to Marry a Millionare", played by the Fox orchestra
As I understand it, Millionaire was actually the first CinemaScope production fox made, but Zanack, in his wisdom, decided to hold off realease until after "The Robe" as to present CinemaSacope on a grandeur scale. I always thought the overture ahead of "How to Marry a Millionaire" was intended to show off and impress audiences with stereophonic sound. As to the question about who ran the lights and curtains at RCMH, it was all stagehands, projectionist had no control over any of that. In New York City, if you had a stage were you now or once presented live shows, you had stagehands even if you are showing movies.

Porter wrote: " How could you choose just one?"

Porter: You are right of course. There were so many great movie intros that came after the fanfare.
For me though it was all about a time and a place.I just loved that short part of my young life when I was in the projection business. For some reason that combination of the fanfare and the intro to the music stayed with me over many others. Thats probably also why I like "South Pacific" despite the movie's many faults including those ridiculous colour filters. I just loved showing that movie and seeing the audience leave with smiles on their faces.
MartinC

Even though "South Pacific" did not have the Fox fanfare, as a young projectionist to get a print of that movie in four track with the intermission and all the entrance and exit music was a thrill.
mjc, do you remember your first mag print?

Vito:

Yes I do ....it was South Pacific. I helped out with the manual re-winding, changeovers and lighting at a large theatre (the Dorchester, Hull, England) occasionally. If I remember correctly, they installed the extra speakers and equipment just for South Pacific which ran for about 3 months. In the theatre I worked at on weekends in a small town nearby we got South Pacific much later that year but it was the regular soundtrack. I was not connecting the fanfare to South Pacific in my previous post. Just pointing out the impact that movies at the time had on me. South Pacific was also the first and only time I ran a blank reel with just the soundtrack containing the overture before the movie started. Thrill was right. I was lucky to be doing that job at 16. The job lasted about a year.
I have made some inquiries through the daily paper in Hull to see if I can get some photo's of the Dorchester to set up a listing here on Cinema Treasures. It was a wonderful 16 hundred seat theatre, the showmanship by the regular projection staff was superb. I am told the Dorchester was demolished several years ago.

Just a thought that occured to me regarding overtures and entrance music on movies. I don' know how everyone handled this, but in New York we would cement a strip of film, one sprocket in width, across the area where it was time to change the lighting levels. This would cause a click going thru the gate, similar to the sound of a splice, which would be our cue to change the lighting. With a movie like "South Pacific" there would be a couple of lighting cues. The first "click" would signal us to bring the house lights down about 25%, then the second one brought the lights down about 60%. The final cue was to kill the lights completly, and begin lowering the stage lights and open the curtain. The curtain could never expose a white screen, it had to be timed in such a way as to have the fade in of the movie as the curtains began to part. The same thing would apply to closing the curtains, they were timed so that the two panels would "kiss" as the movie faded out.Another point was, we NEVER played any other music (records in those days) before the start of the movie, or during intermission. RCMH always timed both the traveler and waterfall (contuer)curtains perfectly. The curtains were so heavy that the sound would drop 50% for the last few bars of music as the curtains closed over the speakers. Of course then the organ would begin with missing a beat. RCMH, in it's day, was a first class act few could copy or do as well. one might try and find a flaw in the program but.... I never did.

Vito:

Well...we were an ocean apart at the time but the kind of showmanship I talked about was exactly as you mentioned. The trick of cementing a piece of film was not one I saw done but it sure sounds like a heck of a good idea. The Chief or second who always ran the shows where I was did it strictly by practising dry runs.
The Dorchester had a beautiful gold festoon (drop) curtain and some slow moving big side curtains. We would use the side curtains to close the movie as you describe. We would drop the festoon after the side curtains closed during the intermission. No one would see it because it came down behind the side curtains. So when we opened again with the house lights dimmed and the lights all around the stage changing colours we would open with the side curtains again first..displaying the dropped festoon. Then we opened up the movie on the festoon which began to rise at the same time. Now you see why we liked the Fox fanfare so much! In England at the time each movie began with a Board of Film Censors title but we left that on the festoon. By the time the festoon was up all the stage lights were gone. What a great feeling that was. When we ran shorts, previews and newsreels between continuous shows we just used the festoon to close....it would rise again almost immediately which gave us time to open the tabs for Cinemascope previews after a newsreel or non scope preview or short without the audience seeing the screen open up. After all that we would close off using the side curtains and then drop the festoon behind.....ready to open the main show again. Busy time!
I wish have could have seen that stuff as you described in such splendid surroundings as RCMH. The best showmanship I ever saw in England was at the Odeon Leicester Square butI always thought the show at the Dorchester was pretty close behind.

What about the Empire on Leicester Square which was the flagship of M-G-M for decades and from what I here was a more impressive theatre?brucec

Vito: Your description of the RCMH traveller closing and the contour descending was right on, but you should have noted that at the second that the sound track ended, the organ would pick up on the exact note so that there was no glaring change in key, after which the organist would segue into his medley. Even with the showing of "Executive Suite," which had no sound track except for the peeling of a bell that began and ended the film, the organ picked this up before continuing. It should be noted that the Roxy was notoriously sloppy about this part of the presentation and the film would end with the curtain still halfway down exposing a blank screen.

BruceC:

I was in the Empire when it was single screen and the huge Warner the same weekend I visited the Odeon Leicester Square. That would be in 1960. Both theatres were older and a bit more grand than the Odoen....but I was more interested back then about the showmanship. Nothing wrong with the way they did things either from what I can remember but for some reason the Odeon show struck me as being more precise. The Odeon also had the reputation for excellence in presentation because whenever the Queen went to see a movie she went (at that time) to the Odeon. I have been in contact with a former Chief there and we discussed the very high standards of showmanship and technical expertise that projectionists had to meet before they could work there.
I understand now that the Empire has been carved up and there is a spectacular laser show with the movie.
Its so good to read in these postings that RCMH had such high standards.....because they cared. For me thats the point of all of this reminiscing. I have been to so many theatres over the past 20 years where all you got was a blank screen and silence when you walked in until the movie flashed on.

SimonL--You're right about comparing the Roxy and RCMH. Part of the Roxy's problem stemmed from the height of its projection booth and the distance of the screen from the curtain line. As the Roxy's contour curtain rose or fell, the film projected nearly a quarter-way up on it, and the curtain cast an elongated shadow back upon the the screen. The Roxy could have solved the problem by using a traveller as well (as RCMH did), but it would have lost some of the Fox fanfare if the heavy curtains remained closed until the music began. The Roxy, of course, didn't install its golden contour curtain until December '52 (with Ice Colorama on stage)-- before that, it flaunted a wonderful burgundy-red opera-style swag. And, yes, the curtains at RCMH were so heavy that they muffled the sound -- most damagingly for "The Barretts of Wimpole Street" which I saw there in January '57 (one of the few, to judge from the attendance figures you cited last 23 July): the movie began with an off-screen recitation of Elizabeth BB's "How do I love thee," which you couldn't hear because of the curtain. I earlier described how, before CinemaScope brought alterations, RCMH's contour curtain used to rise in a fully lit house, framing the yellow traveller behind it for a half-minute or so as the organist built to his finale. When the film flashed on the traveller, the lights dimmed and the curtain parted. That way, spectators saw the waterfall effect in brightly lit glory, and marvelled at the draped tableau for a fractional pause before the film began. That ended when larger-screen projection required a more complicated masking mechanism that likely interfered with the effect. In the late 50s, if you looked very, very carefully at the contour curtain during the organist's finale, you could see the outline of a draft shield rising behind it, with an accompanying backstage gust of air that drew the curtain inwards. Or so it seemed to my un-professional but very sharp teen-aged eyes.

The way all you guys are sharing your experience and reminiscences with us is the next best thing to having access to H.G. Wells's time machine. Thanks!

I would like to add my thanks to Bill. This stuff is amazing. But I must add that for those of us who were not able to enjoy this kind of showmanship during its heyday we can only regret what we missed(though I love DVD's they are no replacement.) How very often after work or on the weekend would I love to see a good film at the Music Hall, the Criterion or the Rivoli.
The talk above about London's Leicester Square also makes one want to get into a time machine and see those great 1 screen theaters.
Going to Paris and seeing the theaters on the Champs Elysee and see nothing but multiplexes was such a bummer. Now its happening in Italy.The french and italians may despise us but they love to imitate us at every opportunity.

Vincent:

I was lucky enough to visit the 2800 seat Ohio Theatre in Columbus twice several years ago during the summer. They ran classic movies (We saw "To Catch a Thief" and "Meet Me in St Louis") on Saturday afternoons, complete with an organist prior to the movie. To hear the cheers and clapping from a full house as the organist descended into the floor when the movie began was an incredible nostalgia trip. The kids who were there got a glimpse of what it was like all those years ago to see a movie in a wonderful theatre.
I was also very fortunate to visit the projection room afterwards. It was all so familiar. Peerless Magnarcs, Century ( I think) projectors...and they still did changeovers! Made my summer.

Note for Vito: Hey Vito.....I think we would make a heck of a team. Whaddya say I head down your way and we'll offer our services to the folks at the Loews Jersey Theatre?

I am currently working on bringing classic films back to the grand 2400 seat St George theatre on Staten Island http://cinematreasures.org/theater/1865/

I have been wanting to see the Jersey theatre, perhaps when I get back from vacation. I will be away for two weeks, going back to Hawaii where I lived and worked for several years. I will update the movie going experience there as well.

I have a question maybe someone knows the answer to. I know because of its stage and movie policy the music hall never played Roadshows. However did movies open continuos showings at RCMH and roadshow in other places? I thought someone once told me "Music Man" and "Mary Poppins" played roadshow in other states. Is this true?

To the best of my knowledge, Warner Brothers premiered and showed "The Music Man" as a regular non-roadshow film in all of the big cities during the summer of 1962.

"Mary Poppins," however, was a roadshow film in almost all of the large cities when it came out in the fall of 1964.

Looking again through the list of films which played RCMH that I previously submitted, only "Mary Poppins" and "The Happiest Millionaire" (both from Disney) could truly be considered to have played roadshow engagements in cities other than New York, although "Fanny," "The Unsinkable Molly Brown," "The Great Race," "Bedknobs and Broomsticks," and "1776," among others, probably could have been roadshow films, had the studios decided to release them that way.

Thanks Ron

My friend and I were just discussing how great it would be to run a Music Hall festival and revive some of the great films that opened there over the years. Many years ago when I was running the DW Griffith a collector friend had an IB Technicolor print of "Bye Bye Birdie" from Germany complete with German subtitles. We ran it after the theatre closed for our friends. I think this may have played in the states in Eastmancolor. Many times the europeon prints were still struck in IB. The colors were a knockout. Think how it would look on the music hall screen.

Watching Music Man at 2 and 1/2 hours it looks like it might have been planned as a roadshow and then changed to regular status. There is even a perfect place for the intermission. Does anybody know why On a Clear Day which would have been a perfect film for the Music Hall did not play there? This was originally planned as a road show but due to a change in distribution patterns was downgrading to continuous perfs. The film was cut accordingly and I understand lost some great stuff. It would be nice if it still existed and was added to the DVD.

Premiering a big, splashy roadshow musical in the 60s was a hit or miss proposition. Certainly "West Side Story," "Mary Poppins," and "My Fair Lady" were huge successes.

But then in 1965 came "The Sound of Music," and the overwhelming popularity of the Julie Andrews-20th Century Fox hit changed everything. All of the studios thought the public wanted big musicals and that they too would have similar blockbusters. So many of the Broadway musical hits which hadn't yet been filmed were dusted off for the big screen, as well as ideas for original screen musicals.

In the next decade, we got "The Happiest Millionaire," "Doctor Dolittle," "Thoroughly Modern Millie," "Camelot," "Funny Girl," "Oliver!," "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang," "Half a Sixpence," "Star!," "Finian's Rainbow," "Goodbye, Mr. Chips," "Sweet Charity," "Paint Your Wagon," "Hello, Dolly!," "Song of Norway," "Fiddler on the Roof," "Man of La Mancha," "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever," "1776," "Jesus Christ Superstar," "Tom Sawyer," "Cabaret," "Godspell, and "Mame." Most of these WERE released as hard-ticket roadshow films, and although their artistic qualities varied, very few of them earned back their production costs. And younger audiences at the time were not embracing the musical unless it was rock music, which is one of the reasons for the decline of the film musical until it was revived recently with "Chicago."

PS - I'm still waiting for the film version of Stephen Sondheim's "Follies" with Debbie Reynolds singing "I'm Still Here," as well as film versions of "Pippin," "Dreamgirls," "Promises, Promises," and "On the 20th Century." Probably not to be...alas! But there is "The Phantom of the Opera" coming for Christmas, which would be perfect for the RCMH as an exclusive NYC run. That won't happen either!

Simon L!

Did you know organist Raymond "Ray" F. Bohr, Jr. when you were at the Hall? A very good friend of mine was an Associate Organist there in 1955-1956 and it was through him I was honored to know Ray, whom I first met in January 1977, which was a time of trouble for the Hall. My friend and I visited Ray in 1978 and 1979 and we always treated like family. Ray would always show us some interesting part of the theater and standing on the platform at the top the fly tower over the Great Stage is something I will never forget, along with watching the movie from the orchestra elevator, lowered at the bottom of the pit. Of course, the organ was the special attraction.

Ray was the last full-time house organist (John DeTroy was part-time) at the Music Hall under the "old" format until 1979. The management there basically dismissed him. My friend and I kept in touch with Ray until his untimely passing in 1986. Ray knew the Mighty WurliTzer inside and out as he was also a trained organ technician, although he did not service the Music Hall organ. (He would always say, "Not my job!") Ray was from Nyack, NY.

Fortunately, the Music Hall organ is under the expert care of the same family since its installation in 1932. She's very lucky not to find the fate of other treasures, such as the Roxy's organ.

Robert if you read above we have disussed this many times like have a summer stage show as they do at Christmas (think of all the musicians and performers this would employ) and every week a different classic film.
Walter Reade just showed Birdie. This is one of the most amazing musicals to see on a screen with colors that will burn your eyes for days after.
For some reason this film never gets any kind of audience in revival. I am usually the only one there. To see it at the Music Hall (which you could have in '63) would be pop culture heaven.

PS - I'm still waiting for the film version of Stephen Sondheim's "Follies" with Debbie Reynolds singing "I'm Still Here," as well as film versions of "Pippin," "Dreamgirls," "Promises, Promises," and "On the 20th Century." Probably not to be...alas! But there is "The Phantom of the Opera" coming for Christmas, which would be perfect for the RCMH as an exclusive NYC run. That won't happen either!
posted by Ron3853 on Sep 22, 2004 at 11:37am

"Dreamgirls" could easily be made into the type of musical that seems to work today where the musical numbers are part of a show or a dream sequence like "Chicago". People today seem unwilling to accept the break out in song numbers that all of the great musicals had. When the Trans-Lux east revived "Sound of Music" for it's 25th anniversary the audience laughed when Julie Andrews started singing "Something Good". That also happened with this years Cole Porter biography "De Lovely". It's actually sad that people cant just sit back and escape. Movies were never meant to be total reality. The incredible films made during WW2 were to give people two hours of escapism during those trying times. I for one find movies relaxing and want to get lost in the story. Give me stair case full of chorus girls any day.

Robert I think you are talking about the Gotham(I believe that was its name.) My audience there was well behaved. I also saw El Cid there in revival.
I'm still hoping for 40th anniverary 70mm presentations for SOM and MFL. Let see how the audiences today respond to entertainments made for audiences of mid twentieth century America. Or do most people today consider them camp?

Your right, I just always thought of the Gotham as the Trans-Lux. Did you manage the theatre? Creative Entertainment got me the passes that night. I was horrified when Fox released that moronic sing along version of The Sound of Music and would not go to see it, even though it would have been nice to have seen it at the Zeigfeld. It's my favorite movie and I still have the program from when my parents took me to see it at The Rivoli. The last time I saw MFL in a theatre was in the 70's when The Cinerama played that 70mm Broadway Salutes Broadway series. The print was pink but the sound was unreal.

I too remember the sound of MFL at the Cinerama. I went twice. There was enormous presence and warmth. At one point I walked around the theater to the various speakers to hear the separation. We will never hear it that way again. And no one but us will know.

For "Organized": Although I never met "Ray", the theater staff was often able to tell the difference in musical style between him and Dick Liebert and Ashley Miller. Liebert, who played mostly the evening shows was very big with special effects i.e. bells and whistles; Ashley was fond of show tunes and Ray seemed to like bright marches and was the best at exit music. What a treat to hear them at the twin consoles at holiday time. The biggest problem was getting the audience to leave during the break music, as many stayed to applaud and then leave as the curtain rose on the film credits.

Hello SimonL,

Thanks for your comments. You are quite right about theater staff knowing who was at the organ at the Music Hall! At the time my friend was an Assistant Organist, Leibert, Miller and Bohr were indeed the primary organists. I have a number of recordings of all of them, and Liebert's style, to me, was a bit "dark" sounding. Leibert did the "Supper Shows" and Bohr usually opened. (At least that's what Ray told me.) Leibert studied the organ at the Peabody Conservatory of Music here in Baltimore. Miller, who still lives in New Jersey, holds a Master's Degree in Music and Ray Bohr studied the organ with New York organist Harold Friedell. All were artists in their own right. They had to be ... the Music Hall organ is a difficult instrument to play due to the location of the consoles in relationship to the pipes (in the ceiling).

Check this website out: www.atos.org/Pages/Journal/RadioCity/RadioCity.html. It's a great story of the Mightiest of all WurliTzers at the Radio City Music Hall and I know that you will enjoy it. The picture of Bohr and Leibert at the Prompt Side console (thank God the rear-view mirror and clock were removed when the consoles was totally rebuilt} is great. Let me know what you think. It gives a good argument that the RCMH organ is a Kimball-designed organ will two WurliTzer consoles, all built by WurliTzer.

Cheers!

PS: As I write this, I am already planning my family's annual pilgrimage to see the Christmas Spectacular. Who cares if it's been changed from the "Old Format?" At least the show does go on.

Lets start a letter writing campaign to have a 70mm screening of The Sound of Music here next year. It's the 40th anniversary.

Yes!!! That's an excellent idea. There's no reason why Cablevision ought not consider screening it in Summer 2005. It seems to me there were filmings during the summers in the 80's at the Music Hall.

Imagine it with The Hooray For Hollywood show that accompanied Bullit in 1968 :)

While I would much rather see SOM in a 1500 seat road show house(The screen is much more head on) RCMH showed SOM in '75 or '76. The presentation was suberb. An immaculate, brilliant 70mm print with sound that was great(during the wedding I could have sworn they were playing the Music Hall organ.)
It was so empty however that between showings the lights were kept very low so as not to embarrass the scattered patrons.
And while I hate the idea of an SOM sing-along I went to the finale night at the Ziegfeld and it was one of the best cinema experiences I have ever had. The audience was totally demented-cheering and roaring its approval at every iconic moment. With Andrews first appearance on screen it could have been Jagger. And when they escaped into the Swiss Alps(well who cares if the actors were really heading into Germany) I thought we were going to blow the roof off the Ziegfeld.
Absolutely exhilarating.

Vincent has a point about being in a largely full movie palace and hearing an appreciative audience laughing, cheering, applauding or even singing along to the movie; it IS an exhilarating experience not at all akin to the noise of a sports or rock concert crowd. I last experienced it in 1970 when the shortly-to-be-split former WARNER here in Milwaukee was filled for the movie "Airport" and all 2500 cheered when the old lady slapped the hysterical guy, and laughed as one at other appropriate times. You didn't feel isolated as a lone viewer as you do nowadays in the multiplex screening rooms regardless of what is showing. Occasionally I can still feel that audience response as when our ORIENTAL has an organ show with a silent film and a stage act, but not otherwise anymore.

Airport at the Music Hall.
March 17th 1970.
In the afternoon St Patrick's Day Parade.
6 PM The Music Halls Great Easter Show followed by Airport in Todd AO.

Maybe next summer we can look forward to track and field events at the Music Hall? But perhaps this is too elitest. I suggest to the Cablevision execs hip hop topless female mud wrestling sponsored by Hilfiger, Diesel and Swatch with Barney and the Rugrats in the lower lounge for the family members under 4.

Yes but mud wrestling accompanied by the mighty Wurlitzer. So sad isnt it?

Seems that they used the Grand Organ to provide live music for the New York Liberty this past summer.

Jim: I've heard that the Oriental is quite a gem. Its organ, a Kimball, is said to be a twin, as originally built, to the one that was here in the Stanley Theater in Baltimore. I understand that the Oriental Kimball was orginally installed in the Warner (Center) Theater. If you look at the page for Baltimore's Stanley Theater, I posted a story about the theater and its organ.

Lucky Milwaukee to have the Oriental!

Organ-ized: Your comment about the ORIENTAL here in Milwaukee is right on the money; it is perhaps unique in its approach to 'oriental' as being East Indian, rather than Chinese, Indo-Chinese, or Japanese. There is a group of photos of it here: http://www.cinematour.com/tour.php?db=us&id=4035 but none are of the auditorium, unfortunately. The CT page about it is at: http://cinematreasures.org/theater/443/ and this may help others to learn of its special place in America's theatres. I must bow to your conclusions about the organ, though I too had heard that it was a twin to the one in the STANLEY, though it is now up to 38 ranks and growing, from its original 28. It is indeed a sweet sound, especially the strings! And you are quite right that it was originally in the WARNER/GRAND here ( http://cinematreasures.org/theater/1903/ ) and while it may have helped re-use the WARNER had it stayed there, it is now ironic, given what happened to the theatre, that it was best that it was removed.

Your story about the STANLEY's organ is sad to read; greed so often destroys beauty, but at least you have a recording of it before the end. If you track down the author of "Exit", Robert Headley in the Baltimore/DC area, you might have a wonderful conversation, since he was also often here in Milw. and could no doubt tell you much.

And lucky Baltimore to have the restored HIPPODROME ( http://cinematreasures.org/theater/1264/ )..

Jim:

The Hippodrome is gorgeous. My wife and I attended the opening show, The Producers. The Hipp also had an organ in it ... a transplanted M.P. Moller church pipe organ, installed UNDER the stage. (Yuck!) It didn't last very long. (Mercifully.)

Kimballs are/were real beauties. W.W. Kimball continued to build church pipe organ up until W.W. II and always built instruments of the finest quality. My organ professor in college studied on a large late Kimball in Denver (St. John's Episcopal Cathedral) and he always told me it was not to be forgotten. Of course, the Radio City Music Hall's Wurlitzer, built to Kimball specifications (ranks and scales) benefits from the design, so that it's a pretty versatile organ.

So you know about the famous Kimball string pipes? (Their reeds and most flues, except Tibias, weren't slouches either.) The largest collection of Kimball strings is not in a church or theater organ. It's the String Division (88 ranks) in the Wanamaker Organ in Phildelphia. Standing in the middle of that organ chamber was inspiring.

What ever happened to the huge Kimball that was in the Minneapolic Civic Auditorium and in storage? It had a five-manual main classic console and a four manual theater console. I heard it's up for sale. I think it has 110 ranks, part classical, part theater.

I think Robert Headley lives in DC. He's been asked by local here to republish his Exitbook, but so far, won't do it. :o( . BTW, I only have a 60-minute drive to hear and play the Dickinson Theater Organ Society's Kimball organ, as I am a member there and do some volunteer work for them. geocities.com/dtoskimball

Hello, Organ-ize: It is kind of you to reply to my message, but I will not dwell long on a reply here since it is not good for us to go too far off-topic on the RCMH page. I would have written you directly had you listed Contact information on your 'Profile Page' which is accessed for anyone on this site by clicking on their name in blue at the bottom of a comment. You will find my E-mail address in that way.

Just because I am geographically closer to the Minneapolis Civic than you are doesn't mean that I know anything of its organ -- or of the Civic Auditorium, for that matter, sorry to say. That place is about 400 miles from me. You are privileged to be part of that giant Dickinson Kimball installation. There are classical organs of that size in both the Marcus Performing Arts Center and the Cooley Auditorium of the Vocational School here, but no such huge theatre instruments survive (or were ever built here to my knowledge). I am not an "organ nut" per se (architecture is my specialty) but I do enjoy a good concert on a pipe organ, especially by such as Lew Williams who knows how to use the toy counter and percussions to great effect, or Clark Wilson who can make an organ sing.

Questions for all you organites.
Why does the organ at the Music Hall sound so wonderful and yet the organ at what may have been the greatest movie palace in the world, the Chicago Paradise, was considered a disappointment? Also why do classically trained organists sneer at movie palace organs? Is it the music played on them or are they inferior to church instruments?

The Chicago Paradise reportedly had bad acoustics, which might have been the fault of its atmospheric design. It was a problem not only with the organ, but also with the movies and stage shows presented there.

The ornamentation and auditorium decorative draperies so usually seen in movie palaces was not just for show; it was essential to absorb and deflect the sound waves coming from the stage and organ/orchestra so that only one sound wave struck the listener. When sound hits an essentially smooth surface --such as the ceiling of an 'atmospheric' (stars and clouds) theatre-- it is focused by that surface upon a single broad point in the audience, effectively amplifying the sound to those there, but dimming it for those elsewhere. Not only will others outside of that point not hear as much volume, but worse is the echo that develops as the main sound front hits the listener, followed by the delayed sound front reflected off the ceiling a split second later. Many smaller atmospherics had smaller effective reflective ceilings where the flanking false building fronts were closer to the surface and these absorbed or deflected much of the sound. In the over 3,000 seats in the PARADISE ( http://cinematreasures.org/theater/344/ ), the vault of the ceiling was just too vast to have any ornament or draperies near enough to counteract the reflection(s); remember the laws of physics: the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection/refraction. Thus when the sound front hit the ceiling, it crashed onto the audience mid-floor, AFTER they had heard the other sound fronts from the stage and elsewhere. During music this may just cause muddled sound, but speech can be rendered unintelligible. How could the great architect Eberson miss this fact during planning? I don't know, since acoustics was not an unknown science even then. It may be that the owner put too much pressure on him for a triumphal spectacular, which he achieved, as opposed to a good concert hall. After all, 'he who pays the piper calls the tune.'

AS to organists and organs: snobbery exists in all levels of society, but more so in the arts, where egos dominate. There are those who believe that the Theatre Organ was a crass warping of the 'classical' sound of traditional organs, and with their sound effects in addition to a distinctive sound such as the "sobbing" vox humana voice, the Theatre Organ was more than many 'classicists' could endure, especially if they saw multitudes going into a theatre to hear its organ while a pitiful few attended classical or church concerts. That theatre instruments were expected to also play the latest ballads of the day also made them declass in the ears of the classically trained 'elite.' It boils down to taste, or the lack thereof. The late Ben Hall well covered this matter in his chapter on organs in his landmark book: The Best Remaining Seats: The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace, 1961 and later editions at most libraries, via Inter-library Loan, or at www.Amazon.com

Continuing on the subject of sound were the Music Hall stage shows miked when it first opened? Were many of the movie places miked? Or else how were the voices and instruments of the stage shows heard with any impact? If they were inititially mike free when did miking start?
I believe to the end of the movie/stage show era the orchestra at the Hall was not miked.

"Miking" started with radio, of course, and was largely perfected with the arrival of sound movies, but most theatres were not "miced" until the late Twenties or after that. The arrival of sound depended upon the arrival of practical amplifiers, and Western Electric was the pioneer in introducing sound service to theatres with the first vacuum tubes (called electronic "valves" at the time), and it was not long thereafter that sound 'systems' were introduced to theatres on a limited basis. Prior to that, actors were trained to 'throw' their voices out into the reaches of the theatre, which is what limited earlier theatres to smaller audiences due to the limitations of the human voice. Many a would-be actor/performer failed on the early stage due to the inability to throw their voice. Early microphones, such as the carbon and the taught-band types were large, heavy and inefficient, and thus introduced much 'noise' into the amplifier to mix with the noise created by early amplifiers and speakers themselves. For this reason, there was no such thing as the portable, personal mics that are now clipped to a costume, nor were overhead mics practical until the 30s, and then only in the movie studios on huge boom cranes. With the advent of efficient sound reinforcement and electret miniature microphones in the 1950s, the tradition of the 'thrown' voice faded away as performers learned that they could speak in normal volumes and be easily heard anywhere if properly miced. The untoward affect of all this was the presence of ugly speaker clusters in our theatres since no one could hear the people these days without them.

But think of the large movie palaces in the 20's like the Roxy and the Capitol. Were performers throwing their voices in 5,000 seat theaters?
I also wonder wonder what the first miked Broadway musical was.
Today even the orchestra at the Music Hall is miked making it sound like a an over produced recording. It distances the audience. Well, nobody seems to notice but me.

Were the stage shows at the music hall miked or pre-taped? I remember the later shows in the 70's seemed to have the look of the performers lip-synching.

Jim: I second what you have to say about theatre organist vs. classical organists arguement. There was as many bad classical organists and theater organists as well as good ones. As Ben Hall states in the his Best Remaining Seats:[i] "It [the Mighty Wurlitzer] was, after all, capable of producing honest music of compelling emotional force when [i]properly played and, in the hands of an expert, could work musical magic far beyond the limitations of any other instrument. Without it, the moive palace would have been souless as an armory." (Italics are mine.) The chopter to which you refer in Hall's book is, The Apotheosis of the Mighty Wurlitzer, page 179. Having played both classical and theater instruments, the theater organ, IMHO, is more challenging to play.

The Music Hall organ sounds great in its environment, but it depends where you sit. Since the chambers are situated fairly high on either side of the proscenium, the lower level of the third mezzanine puts the listener at approximately the same level of the organ chambers. There are places in the orchestra where the organ is terribly muffled especially since it, to my knowledge, is no longer miked, particularly the percussions and the piano.

Vincent: The first Broadway show to use a stage mike was Rodgers and Hammerstein's "South Pacific" in 1949. It was a decision made by the composers out of town before New York and was thought quite innovative. The first body mikes were subsequently used by Lena Horn in "Jamaica" (1957)and Anna Maria Alberghetti in "Carnival." (1961)

RobertR,

You hunch is correct! Wow! According to the late Ray Bohr, RCMH's last full-time organist before the change of format in mid-1979, perfomers did lip sync. The reason was for this was because of a cold/flu/epidemic that made its rounds one time through the performing staff and many came down with laryngitis which had a catastrophic effect on the currently playing show. So, the performers were recorded live to prevent future mishaps.

Vincent finds it hard to believe that they didn't have mics in the huge movie palaces, and that is hard to understand from today's perspective when almost everything is miced. Firstly, movie palaces were mostly built for silent movies, not the live, spoken word. Such speech as one might hear there under normal situations was only choral singing, where the aggregate volume was sufficient to penetrate to the rear of the auditorium. While a few of the largest theatres apparently did have rudimentary mics working off of a rudimentary amplifier, most did not, and so live, spoken word was NOT the norm at all. Few famous opera stars would sing at too large a hall for the simple reason that it could damage their voices if they were expected to project or 'throw' to the farthest balcony. This is one reason that few large palaces were then suitable to becoming opera houses. Today, virtually everything is miced, both because of our now customary reliance on technology, and because it lets the producers and sound men have more control over what the audience hears, as well as sometimes making up for the limitations of the acoustics of the hall.

Vincent implies that they over use microphones these days, even for the orchestra, and in some measure he is right. Sound reinforcement is not as pure as the source, no matter how much money is spent on good equipment, but the temptation to have more control and the electronic power to dazzle and even cow the audience is something irresistible to them, but sad to say, this is often abused. We must also not forget the profit motives of the merchants of such who persuade venues that powerful amps and speakers on several planes are essential to versatility, if not verisimilitude. As to lip-syncing to recordings: it is to be expected these days, since it can compensate for an out-of-condition performer, and does not include the noises of the stage, so it is rationalized that the crowd hears a more 'clean' sound track. Whether or not such constitutes a truly 'live' performance is up to the listener.

I read this was one of the reasons Al Jolson was such a beloved performer, his voice could be heard all the way to the rear balcony.

I heard Burton Lane speak once. He said the nicest man he ever worked with in the entertainment industry was Astaire(one of the Music Hall's favorite film stars)and the greatest performer and most wretched human being was Al Jolson(The Jolson Story was one of the Music Halls biggest hits.)

I have heard many similar stories about Jolson over the years. Fred Astaire will always be remembered as a "class act".

Vincent: Record breaker for both attendance and gross "The Jolson Story" played Loews State, as did "Jolson Sings Again."

Simon, it first played the Music Hall and was quite a sensation. There is a very nice picture in Betty Garrett's book of her putting the letters of the title on the Music Hall marquee with her husband Larry Parks looking on.

SimonL and Vincent are both right -- "The Jolson Story" premiered at RCMH on 10 October '46 and ran until the Xmas show "'Till the Clouds Roll By" opened on 5 December -- a long eight weeks. It then moved to the State, where it was accompanied by a Vaudeville show, as the State in the mid-to-late '40s was wont to take films after their openers elsewhere. (Earlier in '46, at the age of three, I saw--and still remember-- "Glida" at the State after it had moved from RCMH: my parents took me because the Vaudeville presentation featured a puppet show that they thought I'd like-- quite a pairing to lure young tots and their folks to that seductive film-- I have hazy memories of the puppet show set against a green backdrop, but can never forget Rita in stunning black-and-white.) After the State, "The Jolson Story" moved to the Fox in Brooklyn, where I remember seeing it; then, on to the nabes. "Jolson Sings Again" opened at the State on 17 August '49, and never played at RCMH. By that time, Larry Parks's reputation was tainted by Communist allegations, no? (It's awful to remember all this trivia--the dates come from "The NY Times Directory of the Film."

Amazing to think that Jolson opened at the Hall on 10 Oct and didn't make it to the burbs until when? How long did people in the boroughs have to wait to see a hit film that wasn't hard ticket?
Interesting that such a sexually suggestive film like Gilda(it's still pretty hot) played the family oriented Hall and then the State with a puppet show! I remember years ago TV used to cut the film for reasons of good taste rather than time.

I remember when Larry Parks died the Ziegfeld revived "The Jolson Story".

The first Broadway show to use microphones was the 1940 edition of "Earl Carroll Vanities," which opened in January of that year. Newspaper critics expressed outrage and the practice was not resumed until after WWII, when new technology was able to produce a more "natural" sound.

Part of the vaudeville stage show at the State with "The Jolson Story" was a new comedy team by the name of Martin and Lewis! Both men developed quite an appreciation for Jolson's music from hearing it backstage in their dressing rooms between shows.

Joe Franklin has often mentioned his accompanying Jolson on the Loew's Theaters tour for "Jolson Sings Again." Does anyone know which theaters Jolie visited on that tour?

Robert was this the 70mm version? Did anybody see it? What was it like?

I am doing a paper on Dick Leibert who was Senior Organist at Radio City for over 40 years. Recollections about hearing him play or any other information about the Radio City organists would be greatly appreciated.

Henry

It's worth mentioning that when "Gilda" played RCMH, they had no policy regarding children as long as they were accompanied by an adult. However, when "Gilda" went to the nabes, it was a different story. I remember my aunt being turned away by the manager who stood by the boxoffice at the Ritz Theater in Elizabeth, N.J. I remember him saying to her, "Sorry, this film is for adults only." We did go to see "Forever Amber" at the Roxy, because she was afraid she would be turned away at Proctor's in Newark, if she had me with her. (I had one of those wonderful aunts that mold your life) Nabes were much stricter about whom they sold tickets to.

Henry,

According to a Westminster recording I have, Leibert at Home, "Dick Leibert studied the organ at Baltimore's Peabody Conservatory of Music. He was from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and attended the Moravian Prep School there. He began to play the organ professionally at the age of 14 when he got a job as a theater organist for Loew's in Washington, DC. Later, he toured for the Loew's curcuit and played for two years at the Brooklyn Paramount. Against stiff competition, he won the auditions for the permanent post at Radio City Music Hall."

It has been said that Leibert waited last to be auditioned for the Music Hall job. For his own audition piece, he improvised a medley of everything played by those before him. A friend of mine was an Associate Organist at the Music Hall in the 1950's and told me that Leibert did the "Gala Supper Shows."

During his tenure at the Music Hall, he lived in Westport CT. When he retired in 1971, leaving the position of Chief Organist to the late Ray Bohr, Leibert moved to Florida and continued to make appearances. I am not sure but I think he passed on around 1976.

Some of the music Leibert composed was Rosa Maria, Jasmine, English Lavender, Waltz to a Princess and Papa Won't You Dance for Me? Although I never met him, his style at the Music Hall Grande Organ was his own. He know the instrument intimately and his style could be characterized as being "dark."

I have also been told that Leibert and Bohr would spend time playing another Rockefeller Center organ before it was removed ... the Center Theater's. This organ was a 4/34 WurliTzer, a scaled down-version of the Music Hall's (with many of the same ranks of pipes with the same type art-deco console, finished in natural cherry). The Music Hall organ wasn't the only organ Leibert opened. He was loaned to the Rainbow Room to open its 3/10 WurliTzer (a residence model organ). I recently read that in Dan Okrent's book, Great Fortune which is about the building of Rockefeller Center. He mentions Leibert a couple of times. Leibert more than likely used the Plaza Sound Studio 3/14 WurliTzer which was in Radio City Music Hall. (The organ, a custom model with a scaled down version of the big console downstairs, is in storage.)

I hope that you can used this information. Also, I hope you consider writing about the Music Hall's last Chief Organist under the "old" show format, Raymond F. Bohr, Jr. Ray was an extremely talented organist and kindness personified. Ray passed away in 1986.

Many thanks for the information about Dick Leibert.

Does anyone recall a Walt Disney Company stage version of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" that opened at RCMH in October, 1979? It must have run so briefly that it escaped my notice.

Warren
Thats so funny because two nights ago I came across the program from this show. This was one of the first live shows after the movie format was dropped. I can give you the dates when I get home.

Warren
The live show proved so popular in October 79, that it was brought back for an encore run in February of 1980 for 6 more weeks. That is when I saw it. The tickets were $8- $15.

The Music Hall seems to giving out so many free and steeply discounted tickets for the Christmas show that the people who run the place should seriously think about revamping the thing.(Like throwing out the junk with the midgets, the worst Nutcracker on the planet and the Las Vegas inspired Nativity.)

The Rockettes could use a new act as well. Of course, I know this like beating a dead horse but a movie would be nice.

The 70MM version of "The Jolson Story" did not premiere till August 22, 1975 and it opened at the nearby Ziegfeld Theatre. This was the first time this picture was released in the 70MM format. It was like what MGM did to "Gone With the Wind" in the mid 60's, by cropping the picture.

What exactly "saved" Radio City from being demolished? I remember the hoopla back in 1977 (or 78?) when it looked like it was going the way of so many other theaters. It was in the papers EVERY SINGLE DAY. And I remember thinking, "no way...they can't get rid of that." And they didn't. But I was too young to pay attention to the specifics as to how they managed to save it. Can someone fill me in?

Also, does anyone know how it's doing these days, financially speaking? I work really close to this place and it's almost always booked with something (HEY! Yanni's coming on January 21st!!!!! Should be a sellout!!) so I assume it does OK at least.

Finally, (and this is such a stupid question) but...from looking at the theater from the outside (I work "above"it, so to speak) I just can't seem to grasp "where" it is. From above, it just doesn't seem that big but I know it is. Does the theater itself go into the ground or something? Because it just doesnt' seem that high from the outside. Please don't think me stupid but it's stumped me for years. It's probably a question for an engineer.

The Christmas show is again featuring the 3-D ride. I wondered if anyone knows what method of projection is being used. I know
IMAX 3-D is projected with two (left eye, right eye) 70mm prints.
It is oustanding.

I came across a curious booking for RCMH in 1933, the first year of its operation. When Fox's "Cavalcade" opened at RCMH, it was a second-run engagement, since the movie had just finished a long run at the Gaiety Theatre on a two-a-day, hard ticket scehdule. I wonder if this ever happened again at RCMH?

Warren, over Roxy's dead body, I'm thinking.

Warren:
According to Charles Francisco's bok "The Radio City Music Hall-An Affectionate History of the World's Greatest Theater" (1979) the next time that RCMH played a movie that wasn't first-run there (after Cavalcade in 1933) was in early 1975 when it played "Gone With the Wind"

Cavalcade is a great but mostly forgotten Best Picture winner, and there's no shame in it moving over to RCMH! It still runs on the Fox Movie Channel (talk about moving over) so try to catch it if you can.

The "Cavalacade" booking was during the Easter holidays, so management might have thought it could get away with a second-run booking. It was for "Holy & Easter Week," but I don't know if that was one or two weeks. In those first years, movies rarely ran for more than one week at RCMH.

Guys,
Before Cavalcade for Easter there was DeMilles Sign of the Cross(which presented on stage a march of the gladiators and a chariot race!) which like Cavalcade was hard ticket on Broadway first. Obviously the Music Hall was more flexible back then(King Kong was shared with a theater a block away) which I wish it had become during the 60's considering the dreck they started playing later in the decade and the musicals they could have played like Thoroughly Modern Millie, Half a Sixpence and Chitty Chitty Banb Bang. Though if not great product(I happen to think the first two are wonderful) would have been better and bigger draws on second run than stuff like The Bobo, Sweet November, Hail Hero and the Brotherhood, and The Christmas Tree on first.)Also Oliver for Christmas '69 would have been 10x's better than A Boy Named Charlie Brown.
The first film revival was Mary Poppins in '73 and when I read that earlier in that year I thought well now the Music Hall is getting a watchable movie.

"Cavalcade" (Opened April 6, 1933 and closed April 19) was the first film to be held over for a second week at the Music Hall. It grossed $110,000 in its second week (Easter week) topping the first week gross of $105,000. It was the highest grossing film up to that point. The previous top week was "Topaz" (Feb 9-15) with the help of Amos and Andy in the stage show. "Cavalcade" held the record until "Little Women" opened on November 12 and grossed $118,000 (with a slight hike in the top admission price from .99 to $1.05. and played an unprecedented 3 weeks. No film came close to the record until "Top Hat" opened on August 29, 1935 and grossed $134,000. It also played 3 weeks. No other film came close for many years. In general, attendance at the Music Hall was very spotty (many weeks in the red) until the start of World War II. The boom years lasted about 18 years from 1942 to 1960).

Right--Previously "Cavalcade" ran at the Gaiety (aka Victoria, aka Embassy 5--I never got used to that last name), where it had opened on 5 January 1933--so the film's original run wasn't more than three months. Less for "The Sign of the Cross," which had opened on 30 November 1932 at the Rivoli and then on 2 February at RCMH. Its predecessor there was "State Fair" (Will Rogers!), which had opened on 26 January, and its successor was "Topaze," which opened on 9 February. Charles Francisco mentions an on-stage chariot race, but does not link it to any specific film. If so, management was clearly experimenting with format. DeMille next took over its screen on 26 March '42 with "Wake of the Red Witch" at the start of the boom years, finishing with a till-then record of five weeks, and next with "The Greatest Show on Earth," opening on 10 January '52 and running until "Singin' in the Rain" dislodged it eleven weeks later for the Easter show at the middle of the boom years. Both "Wake" and "Greatest Show" used the MagnaScope screen for the climactic octopus and train-wreck sequences. (Simon: thanks for the tip about widescreenmuseum.com--the posse has finally retrieved me.)

Wasn't the octopus in Reap the Wild Wind?
I think the boom years ended at the Music Hall in '55 which I've read was the last year it was in the black. It seems as well at that point that the quality of product became inconsistent though not as bad as it became in the latter 60's after the success of Barefoot in the Park in '67.
Also the Hall started holding films a lot longer than they should have to avoid the costs of new stage shows. I'll never forget how often the house was empty for Robin and Marion even before Easter.
I still can't figure why anyone there saw this as a holiday film.
What a depressing, grainy, washed out, mediocre film( I won't even go into the stage show.) Well that was the thinking that was going on in the exec offices of Rockefeller Center at the time.

Vincent-- right, it was "Reap," not "Wake."

Yes, Wayne battled an octopus in both "Wake..." and "Reap..." The only difference was the former was in black and white and the latter in Technicolor.

My mother loved books and movies about "The Old South," so she took me to see "Reap The Wild Wind" at RCMH. Unfortunately, when we arrived, there was a huge waiting line that stretched around the block and beyond, so we went to the Roxy instead and saw "To The Shores of Tripoli" and stage show..."The Wake of the Red Witch" never played RCMH. In fact, I don't recall any Republic movie being shown there, though they might have considered "The Quiet Man."

or Johnny Guitar

I doubt that the Music Hall would have played Guitar but Quiet Man would have been a great choice. John Ford had a couple of good movies at the Hall in the 30's. They should have continued to show his films like they did with LeRoy, Wyler, Donen and Hitchcock. Does Mr. Roberts count as LeRoy or Ford?

Nice article to enjoy in today's New York Daily News at this link: http://www.nydailynews.com/city_life/big_town/

I've seen exactly two movies at Radio City. The first was "Robin and Marion" in the 1970s. My father's cousin took me. It also featured a Rockettes show. The second movie was in 1989; the 50th Anniversary of Gone with the Wind. Since the movie was filmed in a smaller aspect ratio, the screen at Radio City was perfect for it. There's not a bad seat in the house. THe last time I was there was 1991, for a Joe Jackson concert.

I saw Gone With the Wind here the time they blew it up to 70mm.

Although "Johnny Guitar" eventually became regarded as a "cult classic,' I seriously doubt that it would have been accepted by RCMH's screening committee, or that Republic would have even submitted it for consideration. It had its NYC opening at Brandt's Mayfair, where Bosley Crowther, then the most influential film critic in the USA due to his affiliation with The New York Times, gave it a scathing review that ended with "Let's put it down as a fiasco. Miss Crawford went thataway."

Today Crowthers reviews are pretty uninteresting but he did write a Sunday essay in the Arts and Leisure section of the NYT's after the opening of The Happiest Millionaire as the Christmas attraction in December of '67. He found the film so bad and the product at the Hall so poor that he wondered what was going on with the selection committee. Well things were only going to get considerably worse.

Bosley Crowther's reviews are some of the worst of all time. Check out his review of "Bonnie and Clyde" (you can read it online at NY Times.com). The guy sounds like a wind bag. But he did like "Citizen Kane" though which I found interesting...

Vincent, I know I'm a little lazy but do you have a link to that Crowthers' Art and Leisure piece?

I read it years ago on microfilm. If your library has the Times on microfilm I believe you'll find it in the Sunday edition after Millionaire opened. Maybe these old articles are available now on line? Also try to find Canby's article on the Hall presentation of Singing in the Rain in '75. One of the best cinema experiences of my life as it was the first time I saw the film. I was seeing it exactly as people saw it in '52 and after seeing some truly bad early '70's musicals at the Hall(it was as if they were made that bad on purpose. It couldn't have been by accident) it was like being shot out of a canon.

Speaking of Bosley Crowther, it is interesting to note that he was selected to write the Introduction to the late Ben Hall's landmark book THE BEST REMAINING SEATS, THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE. Maybe it was just because both Hall and Crowther worked for the TIMES, but then maybe Ben actually respected Bosley's opinion of the significance of such and his book. Perhaps this lends pespective.

The book is especially bittersweet as when it was written so many theaters were still standing in good condition including one of the 3 greatest the SF Fox. The epilogue of the book if I remember correctly is titled "An End to the Slaughter." Well there was no end it just continued leaving us very few and some of those in perhaps non salvageable condition.

Ben Hall worked for Time Magazine, not for The New York Times, though he did write some free-lance articles for that newspaper. Crowther seemed a logical choice to do the intro of "The Best Remaining Seats" because he was the most powerful and influential film critic in the USA at the time.

Answer to RobertR's post this past September concerning films that played normally at the MH but were roadshown elsewhere. Add MGM's 1960 "Cimarron" to the list. Played, to indifferent results, at the Hollywood Paramount (now El Capitan again) and Philadelphia's Stanton, a Warner house not previously known for roadshows.

This is late notice but I just learned that there is a special one-hour program about Radio City Music Hall on WOR-TV (UPN network) tonight at 9:00pm.

The RCMH's underground boxoffice was only open when seats were available. As soon as the theatre reached capacity, it would be shut down, and you had to go up to the street and wait on line to get to the regular boxoffices. Underground, there was a mirrored corridor with a ticket taker at the end of it. You then entered into the theatre's downstairs lounge, adjacent to the checkroom.
posted by Warren on Nov 22, 2004 at 4:19pm

I took my 8 year old daughter to see the Christmas show on Friday. We got to the theater a little early and went downstairs to the lounge. It seems a lot different than I remember it. Not as big but they did have these temporary partitions blocking off large sections of the lounge area. Behind them, they were storing the overpriced souvenirs they were hocking down there.

Anyway....regarding Warren's comment about the passageway that led from the lower concourse to the lounge, it's still there and I found it. It's on the far side (southern) part of the lounge. It's concealed by these temporary partitions and behind it are those souvenirs. I managed to work my way around them to get a decent look. It's all still intact right down to the mirrors that Warren mentioned. The only thing is that at the far end, it does look sealed off except for a single door. So obviously the corridor is still intact just not used at all. Very interesting.

Just another thing: my daughter was VERY impressed with the Music Hall. She could not believe that at one time they regularly showed movies there. And she made one point that was good for an eight year old. She asked why they have those awful looking hanging speakers and light holders above and to the side of the stage. Once she said that, I had to totally agree. There's one huge set of speakers that comes down from the arch directly above the stage. I know they had to do that for sound and the concerts but it looks awful and kills the effect of the sunrise (sunset?). Either way, my daughter loved the place and especially the two organists. That was a neat touch. I didn't know they still used the organs.

I saw about a half hour of the self congradulatory special last night. It was all I could take. The head of the Rockettes goes on and on about what wonderful troup they are. And so they are. But you can only see them once out of the year and only in the lousy Christmas show. Maybe she needs to think about when else they can be presented in New York. Once a year at the holidays just isn't professional performing and an insult as well to a great NY institution. Also they need to find a stage producer who knows the capabilities of the stage. Having speakers throughout the auditorium is such a symptom of the stupidity that the current managers get away with.

Well, I was there on Friday for the show and I hate to say Vincent's right, but he is. They're treating the place like it's Madison Square Garden now. It's still grand looking but it's unique aspects that I remember (like the beautiful lounge) is not like it was. It's got some of the art deco furnishings and such but whole areas are kept behind these partitions to store the overpriced krap souvenirs.

BUT....I think you have to understand the realities of a place like this now. In order for it to survive in some form, they have to do whatever they can to keep it going even if it means cheapening it's heritage. Entertainment is not what it was 40 or 50 years ago. People don't go to the movies like they used to even 20 years ago. Yeah, it's a little nauseating when you think about "Dora the Explorer" playing the Music Hall and such. But it pays the rent and keeps the place alive. That is what we have to be thankful for.

If only there was a fair balance between the "crap" and classic movies.

"If only there was a fair balance between the "crap" and classic movies. "

On that note, I will completely agree with you. I don't think it would be difficult to imagine the Music Hall filling up if every now and then they showed worthwhile. And I don't mean just classic films. My feeling is that if they had been able to premiere and show, say, "The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King" (very epic sized) it would have done pretty well. I for one would've loved to have seen it there. There are many times during the year where the offerings at RCMH are slim (not sure if it's ever dark, though). But what movies do you think could or would fill up the Hall enough to warrant this? I don't know anything about bookings and such so it would be hard to figure whether or not they'd be able to either make a profit or at least break even.

Since Radio City is no longer the exclusive movie house it once was, they could most definately play a film like "Lord of the Rings", "Spongebob" or any Disney feature when it opens for general release. Put a stage show with it and charge $20.

Judging from how mediocre the Christmas show was, I could not agree with you more.

How amazing it would've been to have seen the shortened one that I remember so well (and saw every year when I was a kid) along with "The Spongebob Movie"!!! My daughter would've had a REAL treat.

Though she enjoyed the show overall, I could tell after 45 minutes or so, she was getting "itchy" as was I. Since there's no story or anything, it's hard to keep interested in one "spectacular" production number after another. There were at least three parts of it that I remember from when I saw it as a kid. The rest was filler to make people feel like they were getting their money's worth.

They could do this for the Easter show and during the summer. Cut the stage show back to 45 to 50 minutes cutting out a lot of the annoying filler and utilize the old set designs and the old staging(if anybody around still remembers it.)At this point I assume all the old sets have been destroyed and all the old lighting charts as well. At Christmas of '69 the Colorama magazine in the Sunday Daily News had a two page color spread of the Nativity. It was one of the best photos I've seen of it. The powers that currently be should get a hold of it and see how it's supposed to look. Their own poverty of imagination would stun them.

It's hard to believe we now pay $100 for what we used to spend $5 for with a movie.

Robert I hate to tell you this but when I saw Scrooge with an elaborate Christmas show if you got there in the morning before 12 I believe it was $2 on a Saturday. A first run movie at the time was $3. Movies are now $10.50. That's less than a 400 percent increase. Today to see the Christmas show it's $100. That's a 5,000 percent increase. And back then you could stay and watch it all over again! So the price of a Music hall ticket today is 10x's more than it should be at current price standards.

There are lots of cut-rate deals being offered. The Long Island Rail Road, for example, has one that gives a discount of 20% on RCMH tickets, plus FREE round trip transportation on the LIRR.

Warren: not to sound cynical but the cut rate deals are often for off peak dates and/or times (typically before Thanksgiving or if after, for unpopular times like 9:00 AM or so...). I believe that after a certain point, every show is Peak and the discounts mean you get the dregs of the seating like the rear of the orchestra to the far right or left. I paid premium for the tickets because I used a certain credit card and was assured that they were great seats. They were mediocre at best. I can only imagine what the cut rate folks got.

Like RobertR says, during the 70's, you could see the show any number of times for around $7. (I'm not sure of the exact price but I'm sure it wasn't anything near to what I paid...)

I think that when I saw The Promise in 1979, it was $5 for eve shows. I was there the last day.

No CConnolly, $7 would have been considerd an outrageous admission price. Top general admission,including all of the orchestra from 70 to 76 would have been from $3 to $4. The Music Hall while still in its movie phase prided itself on popular prices(when was the last time you saw that term used?)

Sadly, there is nothing 'popular' about todays prices...... the term usury comes to mind.

Vincent: hey, I was a kid and Mom paid admission so what did I care, right? In my mind, the Christmas show back then was excellent. It was a great thing to go see. We never got reservations and always got great seats OR we'd move to another section after the first show (or movie) to see it again even better. Best deal in the city by far. Yeah, I had to sit through some less than desirable movies ("Slipper and the Rose" stands out in my mind as one of the worst I had to endure) but the show and the Music Hall made it all worthwhile.

People today have asked me what I thought of the show and all I could think of was that it seemed like one of those shows you see at Disney World or such with much more exhorbitant admission price.

I'm not sure how events are booked at the Music Hall these days but whom ever is doing it probably doesn't care about the quality as long as whatever the venue is, it brings in $$$. I know that it's somehow tied into The Theater at Madison Square Garden now.

I consider it a real loss that they don't do Leonidoff's Nativity any more. When the stage show started and the house darkened turning to a deep blue the orchestra rose with only the sound of chimes playing the opening of Silent Night. It would repeat going up an octave and the chorus dressed as Renaissance shepards and such would appear on the side flanks lit up as tableaux and sing the entire carol. Then the curtain would go up to reveal the night sky over Bethlehem and they would only descend when the angel would appear and start singing o Holy Night which they would all join in at the end. After the Nativity the orchestra would rise to its normal height and always play Sleigh Rise introducing the more secular part of the spectacle.

Are the weekly Christmas show grosses reported in Variety or any of the other showbiz trade papers? If not, they should be...Also, do Christmas show tickets ever turn up at the "half-price" booth in Duffy Square? I suspect that evening performances are less than sell-outs, especially on weekdays.

Vincent: YES! Thank you for that great description. THAT'S the Nativity I remember so well. That friggin' thing would give me goose pimples when I was a kid. And THE BLUE LIGHT!!!! That was one of the most amazingly beautiful things I have EVER seen and I'm not religous. It was dramatic and awe inspiring.

The show today is lame. Yes, the shepherds descend from the side flanks but it's near the end. Then at the end, they do this weird scrolling story thing about the glory of Jesus while a narrator recites what's written on the screen. I thought I was in the midwest (sorry.). One of the reasons I took my daughter to see it was that I assumed (wrongly) that it would be the same.

Why the HELL could they not have kept the original Nativity? Do you know when the one you and I saw was last performed?

Thanks again...

CC now you've really got me started. The narration in the current Nativity has to be proof positive of the non existence of God. I thought I was reading a poster in a Christian Right church basement. Whoever came up with that should have been buried in the foundation of the Times Square Mariott. And then they follow this with a Walgreen inspired creche! Fortunately when I saw it the midgets in the toy house popping out singing Fa la la la la la put me into such a state of shock that the effect was somewhat mitigated.

Imagine standing on line for 3 hours to see one of the best Christmas shows ever at the Music Hall and it only lasted 22 minutes. That was when "Sayonara" was the 152 minute feature. The Nativity was only 7 minutes long followed by a 2 minute overture. The Rockettes did their traditonal 6 minute routine as 36 tapping Santas,followed by the 7 minutes Underseas Kingdom finale featuring Kirby's flying ballet. How about .95 before noon; 1.25 noon to 6pm and 1.50 6pm to closing. 1st Mezzanine reserved seats were 1.80 matinees and 2.40 for all evenings and Saturday and Sunday. Eat your heart out.

Yes, the Christmas Spectacular is often at the TKTS half-price booth in Times Square; I'm not sure about the South Street Seaport location. Thanks for reminding me...maybe I'll check it out at half-price, and it'll be a good opportunity to explore the Hall again. I love going into the upper mezzanines and looking out over the lobby, or sitting in and watching the show from that extreme perspective.

Yup Simon, how well I remember those prices. During the 50s and 60s We went to every new show. New movies would normally open on a Thursday and we would get there before 6 for the matinee price of, as you mentioned, about $.90. Seats wee unreserved so you could sit anywhere you liked. Once inside we would head down to the front row of the orch, to watch the stage show, then rush up to the 3rd mezz for the movie, and sometimes head down to the front row of the 1st mezz to see the stage show again. As to those awfull speakers, I certainly agree they are an eyesore. The smaller ones hanging on the side walls and along the back walls are course for Dolby surround when ever a movie is shown, but I think they over did that, Seems to be an awfull lot of them. But at least they lok a bit better now, after the restoration, when a gold fabric was put on them.
Did they actually use the curtain much during the Christmas show? That beautifull curtain just sems to hang there much of the time these days and never move.

Simon talks about Kirby's flying ballet. I've read that they were also part of a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea spectacle included in the '62 Easter show along with the film Moon Pilot. The entire secular portion of the stage show was produced by Disney and I once had a beautiful color photo of the finale. Did anyone see this?
I once saw the Undersea Ballet with the film Butterflies are Free which certainly fufilled expections though an usher told me it had been scaled down probably from its last appearance with Where Were You when the Lights Went 0ut.

CConnolly asked:

I don't think it would be difficult to imagine the Music Hall filling up if every now and then they showed worthwhile. And I don't mean just classic films ... But what movies do you think could or would fill up the Hall enough to warrant this?
**********************
The Music Hall showed Alfred Hitchcock's "Psycho" on a weeknight back in the 1990's as part of a classic film festival. There wasn't too much advertising for this event, but the word got out anyway. There wasn't an empty seat in the house. Man, what a thrill that was!

If the Music Hall could pick and choose what it ran, it would do fine. As an earlier post mentioned, "The Spongebob Movie" would've been great there as well as (even better!) "The Incredibles". What I would've given to see that WHOPPER in the Music Hall!!!! The problem is, movies lately are just not that great. Ok..so let's imagine they book the latest Harry Potter flick (for arguements sake...) or they had run "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy upon each of their sucessive openings (now THOSE suckers would've been sold out for WEEKS!!!). What about everything else? My opinion is that the Music Hall should be more of a mixed venue...concerts, shows, and movies. How often (if ever?) is the theater unbooked? I work within view of it's marquee and I never see nothing showing there even if it's Yanni in Concert (now there's a sellout show!).

Imagine if they showed the original three Star Wars films there again? Every single geek within 300 miles would be there in addition to more laid back fans. There's just no creative management running the place. What a terrific and totally underutilized place it is.

I had the pleasure of attending the world premiere of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" at RCMH this past May. It was so cool to see a movie in that grand showplace again, and every seat was full. When the stars of the film were brought on stage, the cheers and screams were deafening. It's a shame the film couldn't have played its regular New York engagement there. I'm sure it would have been a smash!

Bosley Crowther had the old-fashioned notion that filmmakers had a duty to make films that showed socially responsible behaviors. He believed that it was not in the best interest of the culture to elevate petty criminals to the status of heroes. However, he consistently championed independent filmmakers and urged that outstanding foreign films be imported. He was instrumental in defending Joseph Burstyn in the Miracle Case that led to first amendment protections for films. Crowther's review of Bonnie and Clyde should be read both in the context of its times and in the context of Crowther's beliefs.

Bob Furmanek: why the hell they couldn't keep it there for a couple of weeks is beyond me. Yes, I think it could've/would've been sold out for that time. Again, the Music Hall's handlers probably have no concept of creativity except for making a buck. Pathetic. I can imagine what that movie must've looked like in the Music Hall. Awesome.

HenryAldridge: you are 100% correct about Crowther's review of "Bonnie and Clyde" and taking it in context. This was a man who lived during the time that the real Bonnie and Clyde "did their thing" so to speak so he may have been rightfully appalled that a film would actually celebrate their spree. He was "old" at the time but his review reads like the rantings of an angry grandfather. By the time of that review (1967) the old school of film making was dying and so were his views. I believe he retired not soon after.

The changes in film making that brought us "Bonnie and Clyde" were also effecting and would effect the great screen palaces in New York such as Radio City.

Saw a bit of the original Pink Panther on TCM last night. It hurt to see in letterboxed on a TV screen. It is one of my favorite films with Sellers giving his best Clouseau(not the caricature it became)and doing his slapstick with the incredibly beautiful and funny Capucine. Then there's Niven, Cardinale, Cortina D'Ampezzo, Mancini sambas, and the gorgeous 60's color in Technirama.
What this must have looked like on the Music Hall's screen in '64 must have been sensational.
Thank you Blake Edwards. Just wish I could have been there.

this is most beautifull theatre I seen ever I be here two times and enjoy very much

During some of our earlier posts on presentation at Radio City Music Hall and other theatres on this page, I referred to the Dorchester Cinema in Hull, England.
I have now added the Dorchester to Cinema Treasures. I have an exterior photo before it was demolished which will be submitted once the Add a Photo page is working again. I also hope to have some interior shots sent to me soon and I will make those available to anyone who wants to see them.

The last time I went to the Music Hall was to see Napoleon, the second time they presented it with the live orchestra led by carmine coppola, it was a wonderful event, and I too am sad that they stopped showing films there. Its crazy. The 1st time I went to the music hall was to see Friendly persuasion, and that theatre left a lasting impression on me. I loved Radio city the most of all the theatres in new york, and saw many many films there in my youth including Les Girls, The Pajama Game, The Days Of wine and roses, North by Northwest, How to Suceed in business, wait until dark, The spirit of st. louis, and many many others. In 1969 I did a "conceptual" art work (Im an artist) on the hall which was a booklet listing all the films that played there, I also reproduced a program and laid in postcards of the hall. I did a very small edition and sent it to artists, critics etc, and I sometimes I check on the internet for it, and see that some dealers are selling it for around 200 bucks. Andrew Sarris loved it and wrote me a nice note, it got me lots of notice. As a teenager I even applied for an usher job there, but think I was too short. I remember going down to the locker room area for an interview and recall the basement was in white tiles. I also did a slide presentation as a work on the hall in the late 60's and was planning to do an article on the hall for a serious art mag. but never got around to it. I also published a series of stories called 5 stories of the music hall which was published in a magazine put out by the st. marks poetry project. I too wish they would start showing films again.

I remember waiting on long lines for the Radio City Music Hall in the 50's. And yes, it was under a dollar before noon for a ticket plus you got a program with the cast of the film as well as the name of the live presentation. I believe on the cover it said "Showplace of the Nation"; I saved most of the programs, but I collect so many things, I'd have to really look hard to find. We saw "Charade","The Singing Nun", "Two For the Road", "The Band Wagon", "Funny Face", "Sayonnara", "The Teahouse of the August Moon","How To Steal A Million", "Love Me Or Leave Me", "Jumbo", "Arabesque", and several others. They seemed to favor Doris Day and Audrey Hepburn films.

"Showplace of the Nation" was a phrase that RCMH used for many decades in its advertising and promotion. In ads, "Showplace of the Nation" usually appeared to the left of "RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL," with "Rockefeller Center" to the right. At the bottom of the ads, the starting times of the movie and the stage show were always listed. Curiously, I don't recall any warm weather ads that mentioned that RCMH was air-conditioned, which was a common practice for theatres in the "old days." But I guess the public assumed that it was because of its modernity.

Ok, have found the RCMH site and now have it among my favorites...don't we all! So I will now read what has been written about this wonderful theatre which such history in the Big Apple! Thanks Vincent and others!

In spite of my preference for Cinerama-type theatres, I still must say the RCMH is my favorite of theatre of all. Can you just imagine that huge curtain coming down on the Gloria Swanson's final closup in "Sunset Boulevard"?
And, Warren, I wish i could locate this photograph. But at some time during the 40's or 50's I saw a theatre marquee - during hot weather - and the signage read "Who Cares? It's Cool Inside"

I have a RCMH story to relay. My husband and I were visiting friends on Long Island the year before 9/11 and our friends decided to take us into Manhattan. We toured the World Trade Center on an overcast day (will now always remember our special visit one year before tragedy struck our nation). We later entered the lobby of RCMH. I saw there was a line and figured it was for the Christmas Spectacular which it probably was, but the line was probably also for folks wanting to take the RCMH tour which is available on Sundays (the day we were there)! Our hosts didn't think to ask for us and so we left. On the way home the next day I was looking through my Fodor book on NYC and read that tours are available at RCMH on Sundays! :-((((

Patsy: you had asked on another theater listing about the Christmas "Spectacular". I took my 8 year old daughter on the day after Thanksgiving. I had VERY fond memories of the Christmas show when I was a kid in the 70's...very vivid especially of the Nativity.

Well, now the more I've thought and thought about it I realize what a complete, absolute RIP OFF the current show is. Just read my posts above to get an idea. To charge $77 and UP for what is basically a hyped up amusement park show is absurd. Yes, the Rockettes were great and they were one of the few things that kept my daughter very interested. But the rest was stupid story padding to up the running time to 90 minutes (to make people feel as though they got their money's worth). And the biggest disappointment of all was that the Nativity was not the one I remember and gave me goose-pimples as a kid. Again, if you read the posts above, you will see this.

To think that my Mom used to take me and my brother to see this every year in the 70's and we loved it and it cost next to nothing. And it was absolutely beautiful. And it's been replaced with this piece of crap. It's appalling.

The only thankful thing I can say about it is that it keeps RCMH alive and in use. At least when I walk by it now, I remember the Christmas show when I saw it as a kid.

I wrote this to Patsy on the Ziegfeld page but it really belongs here. Sorry for the repetitions but these things can't be said often enough.
Patsy,
Yes the page on Radio City Music Hall in Cinema Treasure has many posts and I have certainly contributed quite a few as I am crazy about this building(worked there during Robin and Marian) and grieve over the way it has been wasted in recent years.
Leonidoff was the stage show producer who Roxy brought from the his original theater on 7th Av to Rockefeller Center(literally a block away.)
Leonidoff along with greats like Russel Markert and Florence Rogge created the stage shows for which the Music Hall became famous and was responsible for the religious portions of both the Christmas and Easter shows. His Nativity was a Renaissance pagaent stressing color, spectacle, movement and tableau as imagined by a Medici.
Now it has been reimagined by a Walgreens middle manager on a weekend trip to Branson.

Vincent: I'm sure we've gone back and forth on this same issue on the Nativity but as far as I'm concerned, it can't be said enough. When I saw the Nativity as a kid, it nearly brought tears to my eyes and I was not a weepy kid. My heart would be pounding...it was truly awe inspiring.

But now? God it's so pathetic and lame it's not worthy to be discussed in the same breath with the original.

And as I walked around Rockefeller Center this afternoon and saw the hordes waiting on line for the "show", I thought about what a scam they are getting into. It made me feel so sad.

If they cut the show by 45 minutes, lowered the prices and returned the old Nativity, people would go bonkers for this thing. There is not a single person that has seen this new version who says they will ever see it again. To them, once is enough. So right now, the RCMH show is playing strictly to people's memories (like mine) and to people with little kids looking for a holiday distraction. But they're not going to get any return business. It's too expensive and totally not worth it.

Ugh. I'm getting into a funk just writing this.

CConnolly: I never thought that I'd get such response from fellow theatre buffs about the present RCMH Christmas Spectacular which I guess isn't so 'spectacular' anymore. If I ever got the chance to see it though, I'd at least go just to see the beautifully restored hall and those wonderful Rockettes. I always sit and watch them in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade...it's not the beginning of the holidays for me until I see the 'old world' Santa and those Rockettes...then and only then does the turkey get put in the oven! If you're in NYC, walk by the Christmas windows for me on 5th Avenue. My favorite Christmas movie is White Christmas, but a close second is Miracle on 42nd Street with Natalie Wood. Who played Santa in that movie and Natalie's parents? Didn't Maureen O'Hara play her mother?

Patsy: don't get me wrong about the Rockettes. They were wonderful and my daughter LOVED them. Each and every single time they came out and did their "thing", which was not just them lining up and kicking their legs (which they did) but a lot more, she got very into it. It was all this nonsensical filler in the show that made it so lame and LONG. And the Hall itself awed my daughter but she did make the impressive remark about how the speakers on the side and especially down the middle of the arch marred it's look (very observant and accurate for an 8 year old).

When I saw the show last in 1977, there was none of this filler in the show. It started with the AWESOME Nativity, then then the Rockettes doing their leg kicking thing, then the Santa Clauses, then the Rocketttes as the Wooden Soldiers...then there was an ice skating thing...my mind gets hazy here...I remember they used the turntable to make it look like people were skating and "snow" would fall. I believe there was maybe one or two more scenes and that was it. Quick (about 45 minutes), dazzling and incredibly satisfying.

You'll get more Christmas spirit by walking around Rockefeller Center and 5th Avenue than you would or will seeing this show. And you'll save a bundle.

CConnolly: Thanks for your RCMH memories! Your then 8 year old sounds like quite the lady...another Natalie Wood in "Miracle"!

Patsy, the movie you're thinking of is Miracle on 34th Street, with Natalie Wood, Maureen O'Hara, John Paine and Edmund Gwenn as Santa.

So what's up with the Rockettes?
Why does their director know what she is doing while her colleagues are 100 percent clueless? It makes no sense.
By the way the wooden soldier routine was not done every year. I saw most of the Christmas shows for the late '60's to the mid 70's and the only time they did it was for the film 1776. It was a special event not to be overdone. It was done under the large lower branches of a Christmas tree and they came out of a toy castle.
People at the Music Hall today this is not curing cancer-it is simple showmanship. To have them now parade about in front of nothing but a cyclorama makes about as much sense as have them march about in front of the bare back wall.
Oh and by the way did I mention the midgets? It's like we're in some seedy presentation house in '32 watching vaudeville die.

Vincent: I truly hate to disagree with you about the wooden soldiers and I will bow to your memory but I swear I saw it more than once. Yes, I did see the show when "1776" played there (hated it...imagine a 6 year old sitting through a movie like that!). I think I saw it the last time I saw the show which was in 1976 or 1977 with a terrible movie called "The Slipper and the Rose". Look, I'm probably wrong. But I'm not wrong about the Nativity which we "discussed" here before. Do you know when they did away with the old one and put on the "new" Nativity?

I don't remember it with The Slipper and the Rose(awful) at all. But maybe you are right. The Variety review would clear that up. Still that would be twice in 10 years.
The movie for that Christmas show should have been Bogdonovich's
Nickolodeon, with the O'Neals pere et fille and Brian Keith, and Slipper should have been the following Easter Show. However Nick had major problems so they moved up Slipper.
I may be the only person in the world who enjoyed Bogdonovich's At Long Last Love. At least at the Music Hall it was visually stunning(the final moments alone worthy of Lubitsch.) And hearing Porter there was heaven. Yeah for the most part everyone sang very badly, the dialogue was strained and maybe today its unwatchable(anyone out there for a restoration-it was cut during the Music Hall run! I saw two different versions of it there a week apart) but seeing it as an Easter show in the mid 70's well what else could they have shown. Maybe visually it was the best new film I ever saw at Radio City.
And as regards 1776 imagine anyone sitting through that thing and I had loved the Broadway album as a kid! Though I believe it was the last film to sell out the Hall in the evening shows with people being told that the final stage show was sold out and they could only buy tickets for the movie.

I saw the Rockettes perform their wooden soldiers routine when I paid my first visit to the USA (and NYC) in 1976 and the R.C.M.H. Christmas Show was performed with the Richard Chamberlain movie "The Slipper and The Rose". I watched the film once but sat through the Christmas Show twice, I was so impressed.

According to Charles Francisco's book "The Radio City Music Hall -An Affectionate History of the World's Greatest Theater" (1979), the 1976 Christmas Show was a Peter Gennaro production. Leon Leonidoff's last production was 'Saluda a Colombia' on his retirement in 1974.

I know I saw the terrible "The Slipper and the Rose" (an absure "reworking" of Cinderella) in 1976...it was the last Christmas show I saw at RCMH. Like KenRoe, we loved the Christmas show so much that year that we saw it twice but exited before we'd have to sit through the movie again.

The first time I saw the Christmas show was with "1776" and it was packed. I was way too young to understand or like the movie. But I loved the Christmas show. Every year after that until 1976, we went to see the show and the movie. Funny thing is I can only remember one other movie besides Slipper and 1776 and that was "The Sunshine Boys" which must've been 1975. My parents laughed their heads off at that one but I didn't think much of it at the age of 9. Again, I loved the show. I don't remember exactly what was performed...the shows have all kind of morphed into on another.

Ironically, in 1976, for the Bicentennial, my school and (it seemed) all the other school districts in Nassau County saw a special screening of "1776" at the un-multiplexed Lynbrook. I can remember sitting in the high balcony and looking down at the "orchestra" seats and thinking how big the place was. God, that theater was, to me, the Radio City Music Hall of LI. I absolutely LOVED that place.

CC I hope you saw the Disney Robin Hood Christmas show as it was the last one with the ballet company and the Rockettes looking especially sensational much like in that great Kodak photo of them in red against a blue background. For me after that it was never the same. I guess it was right after Leonidoff left that they disbanded the ballet. For me the stage started looking pretty sparse and then they reduced the Rockettes from 36 to 30.(I think at the very beginning the Rockettes totaled 46 on stage. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Vincent
You are so right, and every year the show got sparser and sparser. I remember by the late 70's people standing in front of the drapes singing with no backdrops or props for some numbers. The thing is I long for those days just beacuse seeing the movie and stage show was special. I have a question, was there any other theatre anywhere in the world that was still running a stage show and movie until almost 1980?

Vincent and CC: Boy, between the 2 of you I'm learning ALOT about RCMH and the Christmas Show over the years! Thanks!

I was surprised to read that the number of Rockettes on stage has been reduced! :-(

I have to say this once again: The Rockettes were as good as I remember them. If the numbers have dwindled, it had no effect on the presentation. They were outstanding. They did a finale where they were Santa's reindeer that was as good as anything I remember from the shows as a kid. It was the stuff before this scene and others that was appalling and worse, BORING and pointless (what the HELL was with that toy making factory set? Even my daugther said it looked tacky). If the show was simply the Rockettes "doing-their-thing" it would've been a winner. Less is more is definately the key to this kind of show. And that goes for the ticket prices too.

Vincent: I saw your hilarious posting about the Christmas show on the Ziegfeld site and you also say the same thing here about it's strange Christian Fundamentalist bent. I think what you're referring to (and we "discussed" this here previously) is that ludicrous speech at the end with it scrolling on the screen. It's message is so UN-subtle it's like getting hit over the head. That pushed me over the edge into out and out loathing of the "new" Nativity. The old shows may have morphed into one continuous one in my mind but they never did anything like that back then.

It's "message" is so heavy handed that they probably should send out a warning to the audience that all non Christians may want to leave the auditorium prior to the Nativity scene.

Even as a kid, I was not into religon and such but the Nativity I saw then could've made me relgious...it was that good.

Just one more thing (and I sincerely apologize for beating a dead horse here) but I wonder if the reason why the put the Nativity at the end rather than the beginning like the shows I saw was because people actually MIGHT get up and walk out because they were offended by the ending message.

Was the Nativity scene I remember always at the beginning of the Christmas show?

CConnolly

I think with the movies it always started the show. At least that's how I remember it. Rob

Always at the beginning. Leonidoff knew exactly what he was doing.

Not having seen the Nativity sequence I'm curious to know just what the 'message' is that the management is promoting (although I have my suspicions).

Sam_e: You took the words right out of my mouth...."I'm curious to know just what the 'message' is"! I know when we lived in FL and would attend the First Baptist Singing Christmas Tree it was and still is close to 3 hours in length. The reason being the program is done in 2 parts with an intermission. The first half is Toyland and Santa etc. and the second half is very secular with the entire story of Jesus, from birth to death on the cross...complete with the pounding of Jesus to the cross. I know that it scares some children and feel that the Easter story should NOT be a part of the Christmas story, but that's only my humble opinion. Our friends would ask us what we thought each year and I was never one to hold back my opinion though we usually went each year knowing full well that the format would probably remain the same.

The ending message that scrolled with narration basically praised Jesus as being the most remembered and greatest leader of all time even after 2000+ years. I wish I could get a transcript of it. Not only was it over the top but it went on forever. I kept thinking "who are they doing this for?" It was like something you'd see at a PTL fundraiser. It was creepy. And I'm not trying to offend anyone because I was raised Catholic and such. I just thought it was too heavy handed for the setting and especially considering the light stuff that came before.

I'm glad to hear that I wasn't wrong about the Nativity starting off the old show. If you think about it, it made sense: that's what Christmas is about, fundamentally speaking. And there was absolutely NOTHING offensive about it. It was simply beautiful.

Thanks for your comments as I figured it was heavily Jesus-based which is fine except that it sounds "too heavy handed for the setting" and in my opinion a bit "over the top" so will think twice about going to see the show mext season now! Is it me or is Christmas and the holiday season in general just not what it used to be? I mean in reference to all of this talk about saying Merry Christmas over Happy Holidays, etc. It was a more simple time back in the 50's, I think...now everyone's remark is examined and disected! The holidays seem to fly by and maybe that's a good thing! :-(

Having worked in retail in a large city in years past, I have adopted a somewhat jaded opinion of the Christmas season. Being bombarded by the insanity that the season seems to bring out in people I am now of the "let's just get it over with" philosophy. If I feel that I need an uplifting experience, I'll go to Lourdes or Palmyra NY and see the Passion Play. Let's see, they hold that about every ten years...that should be enough. RCMH might do better with a lighter touch. Oh, to be able to go back to a simpler time!

Answer to Vincent about the number of Rockettes: The Rockettes were traditonally 36 dancers, but 46 were on the payroll. Each Rockette would work 7 days for 3 weeks with the 4th week off. The extra ten Rockettes allowed for the rotation, plus illness etc. One thing that many of us remember from the old days was how versatile the Rockettes were. They were often brought back in certain shows augment the 24 member ballet company and were just as good on their toes as in their tap shoes. The reverse was true for the ballet company. Some shows boasted a company of 100 (check out some of the early newspaper ads), including the choral ensemble or glee club.

Truely when it was the Showplace of the Nation, in the heart of Rockefeller Center. :)

Question regarding The Rockettes: correct me if I'm wrong but the only time they seem to work as the Rockettes is during the Christmas "Spectacular". What do these women do the rest of the year? Or are the current Rockettes hired as new every year?

In the "olden" days (sorry...) did the Rockettes perform at every stage show?

Answer to CConnolly: To the best of my knowledge, the Rockettes have appeared in every show but one beginning in January 1933 (througout the golden "olden days") Leonidoff produced a one-hour version of the opera "Madama Butterfly" for two weeks in 1934. Obviously no spot for 36 tapping geisha girls.The first week of "Madama Butterfly" accompanied the film "Twentieth Century" May 3 - 9 and the second holdover week for the stage show played with "Change of Heart" with Janet Gaynor May 10 - 16. If anyone knows of another show with the famed 36, let me know.

Simon-I believe you meant without the famed 36 so does the strike of '67 count? I don't think there was even the ballet in that one. The film was Up the Down Staircase.
In the Madama Butterfly Jan Peerce sang 4 Pinkertons a day 7 days a week! And then 40 years later he was doing Tevya on Broadway!

wow! this website is wonderful and I will pass it on the Rockette alumni for sure! Mom-in-Law was a Rockette 1937-1942 and Dad-in-Law a violinist in the pit right from the beginning.. even have a book sent to the employees from Roxy because he couldnt invite them all to the grande opening.. ahhh... sigh.. to have been a fly on the wall during that era!
As a kid, living in Queens, I grew up with Radio City - every year the Christmas and Easter shows.. past memories/visual include the lil puppet inch worm -for some odd reason. Rockette mom was paid $50 week! and such hard work, pre-union
She was in 1936 Movie as dancer The Devil On Horseback with Ann Miller, did the Mexican Hayride show, a show at the Samoa, The Clover Club, Miami, Billy Rose shows, etc.
Great website.. I'll be back for sure!

Dorothy from Oz! What a real treat to read your post this brisk NC a.m.! When I read "Mom-in-law was a Rockette 1937-1942" I just about came out of my chair in front of this computer. And yes by all means.....pass thi site onto the Rockette alumni! I never miss a Thanksgiving a.m. without watching those Rockettes in Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade! This IS a wonderful site and many posts ago I started posting on the RMCH site and it took off from there with many posts about the Christmas show, etc. from several native New Yorkers. I grew up in New York, but at the other end of the state in Chautauqua County near the PA stateline so was 400 miles from the Big Apple! My husband and I hope to broad Amtrak next fall from NC and ride the train into Grand Central Station and stay in Manhattan over the long Thanksgiving weekend! I want to walk down 5th Avenue once in my life during the holidays and see all of the decorated windows i.e. Tiffany....can't forget Breakfast at Tiffany with Audrey Hepburn! Also, Rockefeller Center, the tree, the rink and the Today Show! If anyone can suggest anything that is a must see, let me know. Have always wanted to me in Times Square at midnight on the 31st of December, so maybe that too someday. Our thoughts and concerns will all be with Dick Clark this year as he will be replaced by Regis Philbin as host to ring in '05. I will have to say though that I won't miss seeing Mrs. Clark on camera for those few brief moments with her outdated hairstyle! LOL! Just a joke as I really don't mean to offend anyone. So, keep in touch Dorothy of Oz as I'm sure you have many Rockette stories to share!

Why thank you!
There is a Rockette alumni site and I'll ask if it can be posted here.I certainly don't see why not since it is already out in cyberspace for the finding. I have forwarded this site to the alumni
and I'm sure many have stories to tell as well.
p.s. mom is still with us! but..sigh.. her memory has failed considerably. She told some stories but have been able to piece together much of her history from her archives and friends all within the past year.. and boy she kept everything it seems... good for us lovers of this history!
In honor of their 75th anniversay the Rockettes were all sent a small red square to customize (and I helped with hers). Then it was all sewn together and put on display. Unfortunately we never got to see it when it was on display but we have a photo of it (gosh it looks huge)..and I'm told it is now stored in the closet. BRING it out again please RCMH

One of my early childhood memories is waiting at more or less the front of the line to get into Radio City Music Hall on a very cold day in the mid-1950s. Since it was near the front of the line we, obviously, just missed getting into the show and had a l-o-n-g time to wait out in the cold. At one point, the people behind us graciously saved our spot while my father took me across the street to Whelan's(?) drug store to warm up. (Maybe a hot chocolate?)

Of course I remember being very impressed with the theater (and have visited it a number of times since over the years), but here's one negative note -- I have to say that even from the very beginning as a child I felt that the tall lobby felt much too narrow for its vast height.

On a more positive note, I also couldn't believe my eyes when the orchestra rose from the basement, rolled back on the stage and disappeared.

Also loved the way the performers climbed up those stepped side stages and disappeared, and the way the bands of light illuminating the auditorium would magically shift colors.

I also remember thinking at one point that the pile in the carpeting was so deep that my feet felt as though they were shifting a millemeter or two whenever I took a step!

Sometime in the 1960s, I believe, when the Music Hall was still in its heyday, there was a wonderful article about it in Reader's Digest that went into all the superlatives about the the theater and the way it was run. Looking back, this article in Reader's Digest really goes to show what a place this theater has in American culture.

To briefly answer a question asked by someone above about what the Music Hall was saved from. Sometime in the late 1970s(?), Rockefeller Center (which was still owned in part by members of the Rockefeller family) planned to replace the theater with office space -- the way the Center Theater had been replaced with office space in the early 1950s. There was such an uproar that they decided to explore other ideas -- including the idea of using it the way it is used today.

Although I can't say I am as throughly familiar with the theater as some of the previous posters (with their really fascinating time capsule posts!), I can say that I had a really wonderful unusual Radio City Music Hall experience in the Spring of 2000(?) when I worked as an office temporary / word processor for an event that ABC held at the theater for its affiliates(?) and/or advertisers.

The original plan was for people like myself to type in stuff for the teleprompters, I believe. But they over-ordered the office temporaries and only four or five people (who had done this work before) were actually asked to do this work. The rest of us, maybe fifteen or twenty people?! -- this aspect of the event was, happily for us, very poorly organized! -- just lounged around with full run of the auditorium AND THE BACKSTAGE FACILITIES. It was an amazing experience.

Although the theater had supposed had a top to bottom refurbishment, much of the backstage area was apparently untouched. For instance, we were based in a dressing room that had obviously been carved out of a hallway leading from the wings. There were wires etc. still on the walls for things from the 1930s, 1940s that were no longer functional.

We also had access to the cafeteria, which had apparently only been superficially remodeled. (There were free meals and a free buffet between the meals!)

Sadly, there were some parts of the theater that were very much in need of repair that had obviously been untouched by the renovation. For instance, the locker room and showers that I suppose were for the ushers were a "slum" with missing tiles etc.

But what I really loved about this experience -- and feel privlidged to have experienced -- was the time capsul aspect of it. Not only did I feel like I was backstage at the Music Hall in the 1930s or 1940s, but I felt I was transported back to any big city movie palace of the 1930s or 1940s -- that I could be backstage in Cleveland, Philly, Chicago, etc. (In my mind I could see the old-fashioned luggage of the traveling performers, and imagine the old railroad stations. Here the talk about upcoming engagements on the radio and in hotel ballrooms, etc.)

It was really unbelievable that they just let us wander about like that (obviously this was pre 9/11!). And it was funny too, because after a certain hour, say 6:00 p.m., they did indeed become very strict and wouldn't even let us a few feet out of our assigned space without a special pass. But before 6:00 p.m. you could wander on the stage (and watch them rehearse from the wings) or below the stage (and watch the elevators go up or down), etc.

Almost all the stars of the upcoming ABC season were there rehearsing their lines, and as they left the stage they all would file past our dressing room "office." (You'd see them leaving the stage on the monitor and then five seconds, or so later, you would see them filing past you.

(One enterprising office temp [a young college student] decided to become an impromptu guide/usher for all the stars who were getting lost backstage trying to go under the stage to get back to stage right[?] from their exit at stage left. So he got to personally meet and guide almost all the stars at the event [Heather Locklear, Regis Philbin, Barbara Walters, etc.].)

Two other random notes:

The grand lounge / waiting area and men's room in "the basement" is really just a shadow of what it once was. This has been true for quite a while, however -- before the most recent renovation, but I don't remember exactly when they began carving it up. So anyone visiting the Music Hall today should be aware that these areas were VERY different in the Music Hall's heyday.

If I recall correctly, the lighting system under the marquee has also been changed and "cheapened." Orginally they had naked light bulbs with half the bulb "painted" to provide a built in light shade. These lights fitted nicely within the honeycomb underside of the marquee to provide a simple but striking lighting effect. I'm don't recall exactly what they've done with it, but I vaguely remember being disappointed when I saw it. (I believe the Whitney Museum has places where they still use this lighting effect.)

Benjamin
Thanks for all this great information. The only time I was ever backstage was during one of those tours. You really got an insiders look. One thing about those light bulbs, I remember they used to be sold with the bottom painted so the light shined upward. I dont know if they still make them but I have seen them up close years ago.

The light bulbs you are referring to are called "SILVER BOWL LAMPS" and as late as 1986 the Westinghouse brand was listed as selling seven versions of them in both medium and mogul bases. They ranged from 60 to 1000 watts. The 'silver' was sprayed into the inside of the glass of the bowl. I am not sure if these are still made, but various dealers around the country still have stocks according to today's search for them on google. They were once common in 'moderne' ceilings and displays where they were often centered in grids of reflector tiles in ceilings, but like all incandescents, they have short life spans and are expensive to operate at today's rates since only 5% of the energy they consume comes out as light.

Regarding the grand lounge in the lower level of RCMH, when I went there for the Christmas show this year, I thought it was MUCH smaller than I remember it. Now you'd think this was because the last time I saw it was as a kid but it wasn't. I was there in 1986 for an REM concert and I remember the downstairs area being HUGE. And what's more, the men's bathroom used to have more, well, facilities....I remember going there at the concert and thinking "Geez...I never saw so many urinals in my life!". Excuse the bad taste but that's what I remember. What the HELL did they do to the lounge? Where did the rest of it go?

Finally found the Westinghouse lamps catalog on-line and they still make at least four versions of what they now call "1/2 chrome" lamps up to 100 watts. These are sometimes also called "half silvered" and maybe the Music Hall doesn't want to invest in this short lived lamp any longer. It is a pity, for the effect described must have been classy.

The lamps you're referring to have /SSB in the stock number, the SSB indicating 'silvered bowl'. They came in several versions, with the /SSB type having a mirror-like bowl that concentrated the reflected beam, while other styles had a dull silver finish that diffused the beam slightly. I used to have track lighting with reflectors that used this type of bulb. Likely you won't find them at your local Home Depot or hardware store these days. About the only place that would stock them now would be lighting supply houses. In addition to Westinghouse, GE, Sylvania and Osram made them too. Still, if they're available, you'd think the management would make the effort and relamp with the proper type.

CConnelly: The Men's Lounge on the lower level was restored back to its 1930's look. The mural on the wall, "Men without Women" by Stuart Davis was brought back from Museum of Modern Art, where its was sent to in the early 1970's.

The Grand Lounge was always that size, although for a number of years, previous management used the space near the elevators to display artifacts from the Music Hall's past.

Perhaps someone who is familiar with Rockefeller Center can answer a question for me. Many years ago I saw in a book, the name of which I can't remember, a photograph of a theatre in, or very near, Radio City- a third theatre, besides the Music Hall and the small news theatre which I believe was later called the Guild. This third theatre was a good sized place- 1500 seats, if I recall. It was closed long ago, and the space it had occupied was filled in with floors of offices.

I've looked through the New York City theatre listings on this site and can't find it among them. I don't remember the name, but I think it must have been operated by RKO. Does anyone know anything about this vanished theatre? I think that its men's lounge was decorated with aviation-themed photographs by a famous photographer of the 1930s, but that's about all I can remember of it. Did I just imagine the whole thing?

Oh, OK. I only read Benjamin's recent comment after I posted this question. D'OH! There is my answer. The Center. I'll be sure to read the latest comments in a thread before posting questions in the future.

Answer to Joe Vogel: The RKO Roxy opened on Dec 29. It was soon renamed the Center Theater following a law suit between the orginal Roxy Theater at 7th Ave and 50th Street and the new management at RKO Center (what we now know as Rockefeller Center). The Center theater had 3,700 seats and was operated as a presentation house i.e. film and stage show. The opening attraction was "The Animal Kingdom" starring Leslie Howard and Ann Harding and was a great success grossing $71,000, $60,000 and $40,000 during its three week run. (Most films that opened at the RCMH during the first couple of years rarely went past one week. However all subsequent films died at the Center Theater when the RCMH switched to films and stage shows beginning January 11, 1933. (It was also the Depression).It's interesting to note that the Center Theater with almost half the seating capacity of the RCMH drew bigger crowds during its opening weeks than did the RCMH. For whatever it's worth, here are the admission prices for the Center Theater. Prices changed at noon and 6Pm. Mon-Fri $35; $.55; $.72 Saturday $.83 $.94 $.1.10 and $1.65 for mezzanine reserved seats for evening shows.

For all you trivia buffs: "King Kong" played day and date at the Center Theater and the Radio City Music Hall for it first week only. It grossed $88,000 at the RCMH and then played exclusively for the next two weeks at the Center Theater. The grosses there were $35,000; $35,000 and $33,800.

Did you know that "Flying Down to Rio" with Fred and Ginger was the film that accompanied the first Christmas stage show in 1933. It opened on Dec 21 and played two weeks through January 3. It grossed $98,000 and $100,000. Very fine, but it didn't break the previous house record of $118,000 set during November by "Little Women." Ittle eber the previous Easter week by "Cavalcade." Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you.

It's amazing that Little Women would beat out Rio by almost 20k. I would have thought that Rio would have played to capacity for both holiday weeks. And considering how cheap seats were that's a lot of admissions.There must be some reason for this. Extra perfs perhaps?

Don't forget that that in 1933 this was the very first Christmas show and was not yet a traditon, nor was the holiday time off as extended for school children and workers as it soon became. Also Fred and Ginger didn't even get top billing in "Flying Down to Rio." The stars were Raul Julian (?) and Dolores Del Rio. They didn't sell tickets on their own until "The Gay Divorcee" opened in 1934 and grossed "$96,800 and $80,000 in its two week run Nov 15 - 28. "Roberta" was their next hit there..also two weeks $99,000 and $90,000 (March 7 - 20, 1935). "Top Hat" went through the roof in 1935 with $134,000, $115,000, $98,900 from Aug 29 - Sept 18. Nothing came close in attendance or gross for many years. "Follow the Fleet" and "Swing Time" were also mammoth 3-week hits in 1936. Getting back to "Little Women," it got raves and was a classic with a waiting public. There were no extra performances, however mornings and afternoon shows were always sold out due to large family attendance. Sorry about the last line in my note above. "Cavalcade" also was a huge hit during Easter week of 1933 grossing $100,00.

I think I read in Variety on microfilm years ago the the crowds for Top Hat were so enormous that extra morning perfs were added accounting for 134k. The excitement at the Hall in those days must have been incredible. It's hard to imagine today the Music Hall being full and having lines around the block all day long during the week.

My RCMH interest and subsequent questions have certainly stirred up alot of commentary which is great so I thank all who have contributed to this theatre page as there is only ONE Radio City Music Hall! And if anyone is with 100 miles of the Fox Theatre in Atlanta the place to be on December 26th is THAT theatre for the special open house to commemorate the Fabulous Fox's 75th anniversary! If anyone does go, please post your thoughts on the Fox page as we'd all love to read them! Thanks.

Thanks to Ron for bringing back memories by putting a list a films shown at Radio City. I often visited as a boy and fondly remember many of those films with my family. Somebody posted that Greer Garson had more films than any actress at the Music Hall, but it would seem that either Doris Day or Audrey Hepburn had the most films. Also, I remember seeing "The Bridges at Toko-Ri", "The Teahouse of the August Moon", "Friendly Persuasion", and "Sayonnara" there. The films shown as revivals I don't count as we are interested in films that premiered at the RCMH. I haven't visited RCMH for 20 years now that movies are not shown anymore and the prices are outlandish. Also, I dislike reserved seats because if you get noisy families next to you, you cannot change seats and I don't have a good time. In the 50's and 60's, you could change seats at will. Also, there were once lights at every seat so you could read the program.

"There were once lights at every seat so you could read the program." A very interesting bit of RCMH trivia! Thanks Myron and to all who have contributed their RCMH memories!

My last trip to Radio City was to see Ringo Starr and the All Stars perform! Stood outside the side stage door to meet the artists. Took awhile but they came out eventually. Ringo & wife Barbara Bach (a Bond girl) had already dashed out super quickly at the end of the last song. Guess he didn't have to wait for me or an elevator.
(giggle)

Thanks Dorothy from Oz for your interesing RCMH Ringo story! The Wizard of Oz was recently on TV and I just happened to catch the part where Judy G. sings Over the Rainbow...a very special moment in a very special movie!

A little OT- a friend sent me an oz pic not too long ago of Dorothy and the 3 lollipop kids.. well the one lollipop kid, Jerry Maren, who handed Dorothy the lollipop was 17 when he did the movie and it is autographed ;) as my friend wrote to him to get it
Jerry went on to became littlest chef with the oscar meyer wienermobile and was Buster Brown of Buster Brown shoes...

p.s Ringo is expected to tour again next year so a visit to RCMH may again be in order. Obviously I am a fan!

Thought I would share this letter with you that was sent to my father in law who was one of the very early violinists in the pit of the RCMH and was with them for many years to follow:

Rockefeller Center Inc
50 Rockefeller Plaza
New York

May 28, 1940

Dear...

When the final rivet in Rockefeller Center was driven last November, signalling the completion of steel construction, Father and I were disappointed that lack of space made it impossible for us to ask all our employees in the Center to be present at the ceremony. Because of this we want you to have as a souvenir of the occasion a book just published by the Columbia University Press.

We trust that the reading of this book will give you the same pride and inspiration that those of us who attended the ceremony received on that occasion.

Sincerely yours,
Nelson A Rockefeller

Mr...
Radio City Music Hall
1260 Sixth Ave
New York, N.Y.

The book is entitled "The Last Rivet"
The story of ROckefeller Center, a city within a city, as told at the ceremony in which John D. Rockefeller, Jr. drove the last rivet of the last building, November 1, 1939.

Really enjoyed the Rockefeller letter! Thanks!

Also enjoyed the photo story as I didn't know that Jerry Maren went on to become Buster Brown! More neat trivia!

This one might last forever!

Radio City Music Hall Bulletin
Published Fortnightly By and For the Employees
Vol. III Wednesday, Nov. 1, 1939 No. 30

SURPRISE PARTY

One day recently - and it was not a Friday, when the usual Music Hall executive luncheon is held up on the Studio Floor - one Music Hall-ite had a real surprise. Informed that he had an engagement with a certain film company executive, this ranking member of the theater's legion was ushered into our domed dining room to the chorus of a "Happy BIrthday to You" by more than a dozen Music Hall departmental heads.
The recipient of this impromptu party was, in case you haven't already guessed, our own Mr. Van. And the only person not present-that certain film executive with whom he had been told he was to lunch.
Needless to say, all of us at the theater join with the round table group in wishing our Managing Director many, many happy Music Hall years.

Other headings (followed by text) in this bulletin include:
Spotlight and Sidelights by S. J. Brody
News Notes and Comment
Max!
Service Staff Stuff by the Chief Usher
From the library
THe Glee Clubroom
Projection Room Murmurs

want to read more?
Don't know the interest of the readers here but we do have a few of these old employee Bulletins.

When the marquee of the Radio City Music Hall was renovated several years ago, the letters, which originally were lit in bright red, were changed to hot pink. To this day, it bothers me to see the sign in pink letters ,when the original letters were red. Was this an oversight when they restored the theater?

I wouldn't know this bit of trivia, but think I would prefer red letters over pink letters.

I hope someone knowing the details of the neon change of color comes forward, but it may simply be that the exact shade of red that preceeded it has fallen out of production. A number of colors that originated with neon in the 1920s, are not now made, since it has been found cheaper to make subsitute colors. For example, there was a "Uranium green" but it was never made after a new use was found for uranium and the price of the ore thus shot out of reach. Maybe someone at the sign company making it will know the details and tell the truth of the matter, assuming the exact choice of color was theirs.

I have now decided to attend the Fox Theatre/Atlanta open house from 1-7 tomorrow December 26th and can't wait! I plan to wear a nametag that says CINEMA THEATRES. ORG with my name underneath PATSY! Should be fun! I will post my day at the Fox on the Fox Theatre page on Monday or Tuesday!

Regarding the previous posts about "Airport" at RCMH, does anyone know what other theaters in the U.S. showed 70mm prints of this film. I've always heard there were very few. If you answer, please give your source.

On my first trip to New York in May, 1977, "Smokey and the Bandit" was playing it's first run. However, I was so excited to see the big apple on my first of only 3 days, we went ONLY to see the Rockettes perform. I ordered a box of popcorn in the lobby and recall that the poor salesgirl had to repeat herself several times since I had never heard a thick Bronx accent before and could not understand what she was saying to me. I felt so bad for her, but she was very kind and finally spoke very slowly so I could get her message. The stage show was about 20 minutes, then there was a short subject and some trailers. When the film started, we left to continue exploration of Times Square. I still have not seen the film!

I remember how incredibly massive everything was around me, and though worn and old, it was still very beautiful. Thank God the owners have lavished some money and time on one of the greatest of all Art Deco structures.... and it's worth a visit to New York JUST TO SEE THIS THEATER!

Regarding the changed neon colors on the marquee.The first week when it reopened after the recent restoration I took the tour. Speaking to the very knowledgeable guide, he informed me that over the years the colors had changed due to manufacturing techniques. Just like Jim Rankin suggests.

Over time the blue had become a more royal blue and was returned to at the original turquoise blue that was more eyecatching. The red had become a screamingly bright orange-red and was returned to a rich true red.

I also took the oportunity to puchase the brochure for the grand reopening gala which they were selling in the shop. It has a 3" x 5" swatch of the original gold stage curtain fabric attached to a spectacular photo of the curatin in action. Shame they can't seem to operate the curtain's 13 motors they way they used to anymore.......

It is good that Porter Faulkner chose to mention that brochure for the grand reopening with its swatch of the contour front curtain preceding the restoration, since it is a good visual record of the fabulous place today. I too bought a copy, though on-line from their 'Gift Shop' at their site: www.RadioCity.com where they sell it via credit card payment only, and via UPS shipment only. For those outside of New York area not able to meet those terms, one could write to its publisher: Radio City Entertainment, Two Pennsylvania Plaza, New York, NY 10121-0091 USA. The 48-page glossy softbound is titled: "RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL: A Legend Is Reborn" and while having a poor glue binding, and being focused more on what occurred there over the years than on the building, there is that invaluable swatch as well as a spectacular vintage painting/drawing of the understage area via a cutaway view that shows just how those three giant stage elevators work. As a side note, the woman who wrote the brochure should have done better research, since right in the photo of the famous contour curtain can be seen to those knowing how such things work, that it was a 15-point suspension, not 13 as she claims in her caption on page 20. She forgot that there are also lines on each end of the curtain off stage that help pull the entire mass up out of sight and into storage in the apparent 'ceiling.'

It is a shame that they are evidently not using the curtain at every performance, since I know from seeing it move in filmstrips, that were I a tourist there visiting the place, I would definitely want to see that lustrous 'waterfall' of drapery rising and descending as no other curtain of such size any longer does on these shores. If Porter did not see it move when he paid to go in there, then he was cheated, as will be anyone else denied this spectacle!

Jim, yes they do raise and lower the curtain as part of the tour regularly. What I was referring to with the curtain motors is that when the curtain was replaced they were not able to re-instate the way it had operated in the past. It still rises and falls in the most majestic way but it is uniform. It used to be possible to operate each of the 13 motors randomly to form patterns as the drape rose and fell or to suit a particular stage act. Originally there was an entire part of the stage programme called "Symphony of the Curtains" where the curtain changed shapes whilst the twin organs and orchestra accompanied it. What a thrill is must have been and thats before the show had even started!

Does anyone remember the stunning tapestry-like "Cherry Blossom" curtain - a gift from Japan - that was also featured in many shows during the 1950s?

Yes, representing cherry blossoms against a golden backdrop, with abstract tree branches and blue birds in flight, it provided a setting for the Rockettes in the show accompanying "The Chalk Garden" in Spring '64, no? I forget the music accompanying the dance routine, but I believe the orchestral overture offered a suite from "Madame Butterfly." The occasion marked international cooperation upon the opening of the '64 World's Fair. If Japan presented the gift in the '50s, I'm straining to recall when I might have seen it then. It must have been for a springtime show, huh?

BoxofficeBill is right. I remembered it (incorrectly)as part of the stage show (the film was Executive Suite)whose theme was Cherry Blossom time in D.C. and featured the corps de ballet.

Yes, "Executive Suite" played in May '54, but I didn't see that film there then, so I can't comment. A '50s Pictorial Program that my parents purchased when we saw "The Greatest Show on Earth" in Jan '52 displays a b&w photo of the Ballet performing "an enchanting divertissement in a scene inspired by cherry blossom time in Eashington D.C." The more-or-less realistic set shows trees in blossom, with the capitol dome in a dusky background. The dancers wear Martha-Graham-inspired flowing shifts and are joined with hands raised in the air bearing blossom branches. No doubt a revival of this ballet accompanied the show in May '54. I don't remember ever having seen it.

SimonL--You once asked about RCMH shows without the Rockettes. In addition to their absence during "Madama Butterfly" in '34, they left town for a couple of weeks in Summer '37 to perform in Paris in the Exposition Internationale des Arts et Techniques dans la Vie Moderne. The week of 27 June was designated for Exposition des Dances, so perhaps that was the interval? Films at that time were "Ever Since Eve" (with Marion Davies, opening 24 June) and "New Faces of 1937" (with Milton Berle, opening 1 July). Can you picture those seventy-two legs kicking down the steps of the Palais de Trocadero/Chaillot? I believe I've seen a photo of it. The best way to check on this would be to consult NYTimes microfilms for those dates, but it's late and my library is closed.

The cherry blossom curtain was used again for the revival of The Sting in the mid 70's(too bad it didn't open there. It looked and sounded,without visible speakers, terrific at the Music Hall.)I can't believe they didn't restore the motors for the curtain. What a bad joke! So it doesn't cascade up and down?

From Porter's comment it appears that it no longer drapes in changeable patterns, merely goes down with a horizontal line along the bottom swags. There is a photo in MARQUEE magazine of the Theatre Historical Soc. of Third Qtr. 1999, page 23 showing the original crossbar-and-peg pattern selection switch matrix, and if such could be done in an electromechanical method, it could certainly be done today with electronic stepping motors via computer or push button. They were just too cheap to do it, apparently.

The curtain can raise in two styles only now; in an arc, echoing the arch of the proscenium and, alternately, horizontal across the bottom edge. Both styles still allow it to festoon/cascade as it rises and falls.I have seen them use both to great effect at the Christmas shows and also for concerts. What seems unable to happen is the use of any of the 13 motors to operate individually to allow for anything more irregular.

BoxOfficeBill - we have some pix of that along with an autographed Paris Expo Certificate as they won! wish I could upload them here

At the beginning of The Glory of Easter pageant, the curtain used to rise minimally at two spots equidistant from the arches to enable a procession of altar attendants to emerge bearing lit candles. As the attendants proceeded to climb the choral staircases, some member of the audience would inevitably express a fretful prayer that the curtain might not catch fire (each attendant was careful to cup a hand around the battery-powered wick). The two openings would close momentarily and then, after some verses of "Kamenoi Ostrow," the entire contour would rise on the flower-bedecked altar and radiant stained-glass windows. At length, the in-house nuns would appear and form their blossoming cross, but you could get the full effect only if you sat in the exact center of the auditorium or in the mezzanines; otherwise, your perspective would distort the transversal.

Nothing could distort those magnificent Rockettes on the steps of the Trocadero/Chaillot. I wish we could see those pix too, Dorothy.

On the choral staicases were lit religious statues which the attendants would flank giving the entire auditorium the atmosphere of a church. It was quite beautiful. The last year these were used was in '76(though they were fewer than in the past.) I guess they were tossed along with the original Nativity sets and the Glory of Easter altar and windows.
Both of these pageants though religious in tone were never offensive but highly theatrical. Much like walking into a beautiful European church that can be appreciated on its own terms as an expression of human art and hope.

Does anyone remember the "Ave Maria" prologue that the Roxy Theater presented each Christmas season? Of course, it could not compete with the Music Hall's more spectacular "Nativity," but it was (almost) a tradition there.

I have just found the programme that was handed out on my first ever visit to the RCMH.

Here are the details:

Week beginning Thursday November 11, 1976

1. Music Hall Grand Organ - Raymond Bohr, John Destroy

2. "The Slipper and the Rose: The Story of Cinderella" Richard Chamberlain, Gemma Craven.

3. "The Nativity" Rebecca Alford, Soloist. Entire Music Hall Ensemble

4. "Snowflakes" Produced and Directed by Peter Gennaro

A. "Build a Snowman"
B. "All Skating, All Singing" Barry Busse, The Caroleers & The Skaters
C. "The Penguin Ho-Down"
D. "March of the Wooden Soldiers" The Radio City Music Hall Rockettes
(Choreography by Russell Markett) (Directed by Violet Holmes)
E. "Santa" featuring Barry Busse
F. Finale: "The Christmas Tree" The Entire Company

As I stated in a previous posting on here, I stayed in to see the show twice, I was amazed and had never seen such a spectacle or use of stage facilities in my life! Two organ consoles playing together, an orchestra pit which rose up onto the stage and 'disappeared' into the flys, to be replaced by a real ice rink and skaters on stage. Those wonderful Rockettes and even real-live camels, sheep and donkeys too! Pity about the crap movie. I normally keep ticket stubs as a souvenir, but up to now I haven't located it, but I'm sure it was not more than $4 admission.

Also on offer was the Rockerfeller Center Guided Tour
Adults: $2.15 Children: $1.35

Daily tours from 9:30am - 5:30pm at frequent intervals

'This one hour guided tour of the 21-building business and entertainment complex, covers the Center's history, its principle skyscrapers, its open plazas and rooftop gardens, its maze of shops underground and on street level, its comprehensive artwork and a glimpse backstage of the famous RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL.

Among the sites are the props and sets, the giant motion-picture screen and the massive stage elevators, a marvel of theatrical engineering.

Every tour terminates on the OBSERVATION DECK atop the 70-storey RCA building and you are invited to remain there at your leisure after the tour'.

I decided not to take the tour on this occassion, after all, I had seen the film, the show and the theatre. It must have been in later years when the tour concentrated on the RCMH totally and I have done this one several times.

Yes, at the Roxy a choir in an enormous elevated pulpit, flanked by sparkling Christmas trees, intoned "Ave Maria." Programs on screen included such holiday fare as "The Prince of Foxes" (with Orson Welles as Valentine Borgia, '49), "For Heaven's Sake" (with Clifton Webb as an angel, '50), "Anastasia" (Bergman's comeback, '56), and "Peyton Place" (all about sex, '57).

Thanks BoxOffice Bill. However when "Anastasia" played there, the house had already converted to an "all ice" program sans Ave Maria. However the stage show at the time Anastasia played was quite lovely and featured a Christmas in Japan finale that featured a stunning backdrop of Matsumoto mountain.

Right, SimonL, as you well should know, since last 15 July, 1 September, and various times in-between you wrote vividly about your ushering at the Roxy in '56-'57. (Anyone skiming this post who hasn't read those contributions should scroll back to them immediately.) I'll meanwhile continue my current comments about the Roxy on that theater's site page.

Yes, I remember the "Ave Maria" at the beginning of the Easter pageant.It was amazing! Performers, each holding a lit candle would appear all around the audience with the organ music playing. It was awesome! We saw "The Singing Nun" with Debbie Reynolds. Anyone remember that each seat had an individual light, so the program could be read? The lights were later turned-off; I guess people complained it was annoying! On a different note, I think my deceased mother saw "Butterflies Are Free" with Goldie Hawn at the Music Hall, but I'm unsure.Is there a complete list anywhere of ALL films shown at the Music Hall?

Charles Francisco's book, "The Radio City Music Hall," has a claimed "complete" list of all movies from opening through July, 1978. However, I found at least one omission ("Mr. Lucky" in 1943), so I don't know how "complete" it really is. "Butterflies Are Free" was shown in 1972, preceded by "Between Men and Women" and followed by "Last of the Red Hot Lovers," according to the list...I wonder how the author and his editor decided on the title? I think that "Radio City Music Hall," or even "The Radio City Music Hall Book," would have been better than "The Radio City Music Hall."

That book for me was a great disappointment. The photos of the stage productions look like they were taken by a tourist with an instamatic(they probably were) and there are so many factual eras that it was truly a wasted opportunity. A coffee table book in conjunction with the Hall is needed.
I saw Butterflies at the Hall(on a weekday morning I couldn't get a seat in the orchestra!) One of the best programs of the '70s with the last appearance of the Undersea Ballet.
'72 was probably the last year the Music Hall showed films of any quality.

Warren--As a kid in the '50s, I heard people refer to this theater as "the RCMH," much as one would refer to its rival as "the Roxy." On his "Toast of the Town" TV review, for example, the stolid Ed Sullivan would introduce celebrity guests as "starrrs of a fffine fffilm nnnow playing at the RCMH." The particle nonetheless struck me as funny, since none of my family used it in that way--we always omitted it in deference, perhaps, to the theater's exceptionality: "We went to RCMH" (often just "Radio City," without "Music Hall," but sometimes "the Music Hall" [particled!] without "Radio City"--gotta assign a linguist to this case). I remember a neighborhood kid who wrought a splendid inversion: "Radio Music City Hall." (Fatefully, she is now married to a world-class musician and is herself a great political activist.)

Vincent--Through a quirk, I too had seen "Butterflies Are Free" at RCMH, and I vividly remember the Rockettes' routine: the thirty-six of them (still thirty-six in '72) opened their act on center-stage, then filed out onto the narrow (what-do-you-call-it?) runway that rimmed the orchestra pit to perform their high kicks. I was sitting in the third row, and could only hope that one of them might dropkick a shoe into my lap--just as in '40s Hollywood musicals would happen to a perplexed old geezer in the front stalls.

But BOB did they do that in this stage show? I seem to remember them doing an Hawaiian number in grass skirts. Maybe I'm just dreaming it.

Right--the setting was Hawaiian, and the routine concluded on the runway. I should've stayed through repeat performances 'till I caught a shoe.

By the way I remember that during this run of Butterflies in July there was what seemed like a 20 minute trailer for the Christmas attraction 1776.(Interesting because Blythe Danner created the Goldie Hawn role but was in 1776 instead.) And I remember seeing Cool Cool Considerate Men. But when I saw the film at Christmas the number didn't exist at all!

That's right too--Even though I was a thirty-year-old presumptive adult at the time, I marvelled that Hollywood could advertise a yet unfinished and certainly unedited movie six months in advance of its scheduled opening--a marketing marvel. That, by the way, was the first time I'd seen coming attractions at RCMH. In the '40s and '50s, as Simon L has so eloquently described, the announcement of the next attraction unreeled as a b&w film strip, home-movie-style, in minuscules running bottom to top against a cross-hatched mesh background, while the grand organ played a pertinent melody (minor key for drama, major for comedy), always at the end of the newsreel and before the orchestral overture. In '72, I was shocked that RCMH was showing coming attractions, just as the local dives did. Before "Butterflies," the previous picture I had seen there was "Up the Down Staircase" in '67, and even on that dark day there were no coming attractions. Sometime in-between, something had happened.

BOB Why do you say "on that dark day?" Is it a bad movie or was this during the strike?

bad movie, poor stage show, just days before strike.

Good movie with wonderful Sandy Dennis, but maybe wrong for the Music Hall.

I think by the 70's the Music hall had no choice but to run regular coming attractions. One of the main reasons was that some of the family films they booked were so obscure people would have no idea what they were.

I'd been under the impression that RCMH shuttered temporarily soon after the disastrous opening night, but that's not true. The original policy continued through January 10, with the switch-over to movies/stage the very next day. The operating policy with stage show only had been two performances daily, with doors opening at 1:30 PM and 7:30 PM for shows starting at 2:15 and 8:15. On New Year's Eve, there was a third show, starting at midnight. All seats were reserved. All evening performances, as well as matinees on Saturday, Sunday and holidays, had seats priced at 99 cents, $1.50, $2, and $2.50. Weekday matinees were priced at 75 cents, 99 cents, $1.50 and $2. Management blamed those high prices for part of the policy's failure. Many people, especially family groups, came to the theatre, but turned away when they realized how expensive it would be. The new film/stage policy of four continuous shows per day (five on Saturday, Sunday and holidays) had all seats priced at 35 cents from opening to 1PM, 55 cents to 6PM, 75 cents to 10:30 PM, and 55 cents to closing...In his review of the opening movie, "The Bitter Tea of General Yen," New York Times critic Mordaunt Hall noted that the projection booth had been part of the theatre's original construction, but that the screen was installed only after the decision to present movies. According to Hall, the screen was 70 feet wide by 40 feet high in its full, unmasked dimensions.

Speaking of coming attractions at RCMH, the 40th anniversary DVD of "Mary Poppins" includes a trailer announcing the film's return to RCMH to launch the film's reissue in the early 1970s.

The restored film should have been shown with an abreviated Christmas show in November to launch the DVD. That way people would have been able to see the film as it was mean't to be seen(they would have been stunned.) and there would have been enormous publicity for the Hall and the DVD.
Why are the powers that be so obtuse? Can somebody please tell me?

Vincent -

It's sad, but Disney does not currently offer Mary Poppins for regular theatrical bookings. I tried to get it last November for my Big Screen Classics series and it's out of circulation. Disney *should* have had an East Coast re-premiere of the film (they did so at, I think, the El Capitan in LA), but it's not the RCMH's fault if they didn't show it.

Vincent wrote:
"The restored [Mary Poppings] film should have been shown with an abreviated Christmas show in November to launch the DVD. That way people would have been able to see the film as it was mean't to be seen(they would have been stunned.) and there would have been enormous publicity for the Hall and the DVD."

THAT is a great, grand idea. But the folks who run Disney and the Music Hall aren't creative types interested in booking unique things. They want their $$$ and run with it.

We bought the Mary Poppins DVD for our children and they could not sit through the entire thing at home. I anticipated this because people don't remember that the movie is a surprising two-hours and fifteen minutes long. When I saw this in the theaters (at Green Acres in Valley Stream) at the age of 8, I was in a captive audience meaning that I couldn't just get up and walk out. So you're kind of forced to sit through it and either get into it or not. And yep, I got into it BIG TIME. That's the problem with DVD viewing at home, especially with young children. If and when they bored, they can simply get up and walk out and move onto something else.

Having seen this years Christmas show (read my comments above concerning this dismal thing..) it would've been truly awesome for my daughter to have seen "Mary Poppins" there. She, like I, would've been captive and would've LOVED it.

And if they had re-issued it at RCMH, I would've made it a point to take her to see it there. It's one of the best musical films ever made.

I'm sure that even if it had occured to anybody at Cablevision or Disney(not that it would) the powers that be would not have seen any point to it. When I worked at SONY years ago they didn't see any reason to release the soundtrack to My Fair Lady because they already had the Broadway cast album out. It took them years to put it on CD(of course all that time it was available in Europe.)
Ah, to make a lot of money sucking up to the right people and making bad decisions.

Just came across some old wooden hangers with names:

Radio City Music Hall Taylor Shop
Roxy Clothes Stores in Principal Clothes

can anyone shed some light on these?

(father-in-law was violinist in orchestra pit during opening followed by many years at RCMH)

I went by the Music Hall a few weeks ago to take a closer look at the underside of the marquee to figure out what it was that bothered me about the changes made to it during the most recent renvation.

Now that I've looked at it more closely, I'm wondering if I remembered correctly when I thought it originally had those "silver bowl" lightbulbs that Jim Rankin so kindly looked into in his December 17 posts. There seems to be mixed evidence about what the underside of the marquee was like:

On the one hand almost all of the recesses (coffers?) in the grid currently have plain reflector tiles (which appear to be metal pans coated with enamel) which give no indication that original light sockets had been filled in. Did the renovators actually reproduce all those pans, but this time without light sockets, for the renovation?

On the other hand, there seem to be about three or four very rusty light bulbs sockets scattered amongst the hundreds of plain coffers in the grid, which would seem to indicate that "silver bowl" lamps were indeed part of the original lighting scheme and that the renovators did indeed replace the old reflector pans.

But then again, at least one of these light sockets was plainly off-center -- so maybe these three or four light sockets were just ad hoc additions to the original reflector pans?

The interior ticket lobby has a ceiling scheme that is similiar to -- but actually different than -- that of the "silver bowl" scheme I thought the marquee had. Maybe I confused the ticket lobby's scheme with that found at the Whitney Museum?

I think either the "Godfather I" or "Godfather II" has a scene with Al Pacino and Diane Keaton that was done on location beneath the unrenovated marquee of the Music Hall. I wondered if one can tell from this scene what the underside of the marquee was like?

- - - - - - -

Whatever the case, one of the strong negatives about the renovation is that the reflector pans now reflect ugly, cold bluish florescent light -- instead of the warm, fire-like incandescent light which I'm pretty sure was there pre-renovation.

Two other changes that lessen the original effect:

1) There are now obtrusive (but, sadly, necessary) security cameras hung from the underside of the marquee.

2) There are also lots of electric heaters hung from the grid. While these are certainly welcome, perhaps they could have been hung slightly differently to work better with the aesthetics of the grid, rather than to damage its original handsome effect.

While I realize all of this is not major, I think the cumulative effect of all these kinds of little changes (like the addition of those ugly pedestrian barriers on Sixth Ave. and the addition of blaring outdoor speakers) really distorts the original beauty and dignity of the theater.

It is sad if today's remodeling of the soffit of the marquee is not being done to the standards with which it was built, but one can understand the replacement of the incandescents with fluorescent lamps, even though they are 'colder' in appearance than the "fire-like' bulbs. Fluorescents are much cheaper in the long run, and that is how the accountants of the management are responsible to look at it. The Hall is not owned by a charity, but by businessmen who intend to make a profit, else they will abandon the whole thing, and then once again, the Hall will be in danger of demolition! The odd light bulb sockets Benjamin does see now, may well be the remains of the 1950s trend of adding Goose Neck lamp holders to project on occasional banners under the marquee or even one sheets or standees. These did the spotlight job cheaply, but they also rusted out over the years and now many a marquee bears scars of where they once were, often with eye screws poking out of the metal with remnants of the hanging wire that once went down to the PAR-type bulb that was in the gooseneck lamp holder to keep it in the curved position. Just a little speculation on my part, but I have a hunch that it is true.

In 1970 Look magazine had a one page article where one of its writers talked about his experiences of going to the Music Hall starting with Swing Time. He recalls that one of the biggest audience responses to a film were the cheers that followed when in Blossoms in the Dust Greer Garson says "Bad girls don't have babies."
I had no idea what that meant and why people would cheer. I still haven't seen the film but of course now understand the line. I wonder though today how people would respond to such a declaration.

Is that an accurate quote from "Blossoms in the Dust?" It seems to me that it would have been "Good girls don't have babies." Greer Garson portrayed the owner of a home for orphans and foundlings.

I think "bad" is correct(not sure because I read the article 35 years ago and as I've said I've never seen the film.)Think about it in the context of a woman trying to eliminate the stigma of illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Then it makes perfect sense and would cause a strong reaction from people. It would today as well, though not all of it positive unlike those 6000 people(well the adults anyway) sitting in the Hall in '41.

This reminds me of the classic Summer Place when Sandra Dee asks Troy Donahue if he's ever been "bad" with girls. Kinder, simpler times.

"Bad girls don't have babies" doesn't make sense to me unless it possibly means because they practice birth control. In the "old days," it was the bad girls who usually had babies, not the good ones. The next time that "Blossoms in the Dust" turns up on Turner Classic Movies, I will try to watch it for this dialogue. I did see it about four years ago, but don't recall anything but how radiant Greer Garson looked in Technicolor.

But if you think about it it does. A woman working to give dignity to young mothers without husbands would never say "Good girls don't have babies."
Speaking about Garson(who was also radiant in black and white-Random Harvest, Pride and Prejudice you name it) I obtained a Music Hall program for Blossoms and there is an article included which discusses her Titian Hair in technicolor.
She was actually crowned at the Music Hall in a ceremony celebrating the success of her films there. I suppose the tiara is gathering dust in Texas somewhere.

Warren, maybe this will help. Back then the woman in Blossoms was a heroine. Today in the movies it is Vera Drake(yeah right she was performing abortions because she was a deeply sympathetic and concerned woman and it didn't have anything to do with money. Is this a true story or was it made up by one of today's idiot screenwriters?)
This was a way the screenwriter in '41 could broach such a sensitive subject and make his heroine a staunch foe of it. Today the movie would be picketed by the women's movement.(I'm pro choice by the way but I do think it's a great line.)

Re: the underside of the marquee

The main point of posting about the change from incandescent to florescent was really to alert first-time, post-renovation visitors that, despite the vaunted "restoration" of the Music Hall, there are actually a few changes from the original that have diminished the original effect of the theater's wonderful architecture.

And while none of these may be big things, a lot of little things (e.g., the heaters, the loudspeakers, the pedestrian fences) do add up to give the visitor a different (and, unfortunately, less impressive, in my opinion) experience when waiting outside, or entering into, the Music Hall.

This was also the reason for pointing out in an earlier post that the grand lounge had been radically re-designed. (I must admit that I'm skeptical that the lounge has been restored to its original grandeur, as one poster seems to feel. I'm not sure, but I think I did visit the grand lounge on my last visit in 2001, and I believe the alterations to the grand lounge had been "prettied up" a bit, but not undone.)

While one certainly doesn't expect the owners of the Music Hall to jeopardize its financial viability by refusing to cut corners here and there, it's also kind of interesting to look at, and to note, what corners the owners of a building choose to cut and what corners they choose not to cut -- as it ultimately shows the values that are placed on various things.

For instance, I doubt the owners of the Music Hall would replace interior incandescents with florescent. So apparently the marquee incandescents were seen as an expendable part of the Radio City Music Hall "experience."

Chapter XIII of Carol Krinsky's book, "Rockefeller Center" has very detailed info and lots of great pictures about the history and development of both Radio City Music Hall and the Center Theater.

The portion of the chapter dealing with the Radio City Music Hall, pgs. 164 to 187, has two photos of the early clay models that were used to judge various proposed designs for the interior of the auditorium. It also has a photos of some early theaters, and drawings of proposed theaters, that may have influenced the ultimate design of the theater (five photos). There are (very small) reproductions of a cross section of the theater and the floor plans for the ground floor and first balcony levels. Plus there are photos of Roxy's studio/reception room, the grand lobby (one photo looking north; one photo looking south), the basement lounge, the side/back of the auditorium, the men's smoking room, the women's powder room that has painted murals, and the women's powder room that is encircled by mirrors.

Some interesting tidbits from the chapter:

Edward Durell Stone (an architect who later became famous and controversial) was in charge of the designs for both Radio City Music Hall and the Center Theater (pg. 180).

Donald Desky won a limited competition to decorate the interiors of both theaters (pg. 183). (If I understand her correctly, because he could not do all the work for both theaters, he apparently subcontracted out the work of the Center Theater to Eugene Schoen who shared a similar interest in contemporary design.)

Krinsky challenges the Roxy story that he conceived of the idea of a radiating sunburst design for the auditorium after seeing a glorious sunrise or sunset while at sea. She says that he did not even embark on the trip in question until six days after the model for such a design had been photographed (pg. 180).

Krinsky says (pg. 180) that shortly before the theater opened, Roxy "entered the auditorium to demonstrate its acoustic properties" and discovered that the sound was unsatisfactory. So, according to Krinsky, "several stretches of auditorium wall had to be moved, and their fabric coverings rewoven in time for the opening night."

Krinksy claims (pg. 180) that certain publicity photos (like the one shown on page 175) that show the auditorium with a stage show in progress are, in reality, composite photos that show the Rockettes and the performers behind them to be bigger on the stage than they really are (so as to make the stage not seem so far away). (I think as a kid I suspected this.)

The David Loth book, "The City Within a City," also has lots of interesting info about the Music Hall.

One of Loth's most informative interviewees when he did the research for the book seems to be G.S. Eyssell who ultimately became president of Rockefeller Center, but started out with Rockefeller Center in the Radio City Music Hall organization. So there is lots of info in the book about the business of running the Music Hall (the problem of finding movies for it, etc.), especially during its tumultuous early days.

For example on pg. 85 he says that "The president of RKO . . . had talked to Eyssell reservedly about the Music Hall's problems only a few days after the debut. A few days later, he invited Eyssel to work out of his office at RKO as a troubleshooter, and the first trouble to be shot was finding pictures for the Music Hall."

He also mentions (pg. 78) that after RKO went bankrupt (about a month after the Music Hall and the Center Theater opened), the leases on Radio City Music Hall and the Center Theater were "automatically terminated. Claims for damages as a result of this liquidation went in and out of court for the next seven years before a complicated settlement was finally reached in 1939."

Some interesting tidbits:

Loth claims (pg. 127) that about twenty pounds of chewing gum a day, on average, was removed by hand from underneath the Music Hall's seats!

The Music Hall was closed for five days early in 1965 for a thorough cleaning (pg. 158). (Maybe this is when that very laudatory article about the Music Hall, that I read in Reader's Digest, came out?)

Benjamin: Thanks for all the expert info you've contributed. About those publicity composite photos that show the Rockettes as bigger than members of the audience or orchestra: the contour curtain at RCMH drapes at fourteen folds when fully raised (as it was for film presentations). But most (all?) stage productions that I remember from the late '40s-'50s would raise the curtain only in its twelve center folds and not to full height. (Even as a kid, I figured this out as I tried to analyze the illusionistic transformations of space in those great spectacles.) For small-scale specialty acts, the curtain rose in even fewer folds. The expansive proscenium simply did not open to a performance area that filled its entire width. To compensate, many productions deployed some stationary scenery on the apron in front of the curtain at either or both sides of the arch: snowy pine trees at Christmas, statuary altar niches at Easter, a lighthouse and some fish nets for the often repeated Underwater Ballet, etc. As a result, for publicity photos that aimed to display the contour curtain in its complete fourteen-fold glory, the composite artist needed to blow up the shot of the Rockettes et al. taken in their twelve-fold setting. These pictures, even the best of them, look contrived and out of proportion.

BoxOfficeBill: Thanks for the fascinating info about how the RCMH contour curtain was used. I wish I had thought of observing and counting the folds like that!

I'm not sure, however, if that is what the touch-up artist did in the photo that Krinsky shows and comments upon in her book -- but, then again, maybe it is? Let me describe the photo.

First, a brief description to identify it: the photo in the book, and on the back cover, shows 36 (I counted!) towering Rockettes lined up before scenery that . . . well, is hard to describe. On stage right, there seem to be three enormous circles (hula-hoops?) covered in flowers. (The hoops are about twice the size of the people standing infront of them.) On stage left, there seems to be the top three quarters of a rising moon that is just a bit taller than the performers in front of it. And in the background there seems to be an elevated swan boat. Above the scene there appears to be two floral moons connected by a garland of flowers (or lights) hung from the sky, with more flowers (or lights) in some sort of pattern in the background.

In this photo the contour curtain has 10 "genuine" folds that are fitted within the portion of the arch that contains 9 of the radiating grilles (sunbursts). This is about three-quarters of the way up the arch -- which I suspect is much higher than the curtain would really go?

To the left and right of the 10 "genuine" folds, there are very elogated, droopy folds that appear to me to be painted in! Behind these painted in folds, there is a traveling curtain, that also looks to me to be painted in! (For one thing, they seem to be "lighted" differently.) Also the end Rockettes on either end of the line seem to be partially cut off by the traveling curtain.

The clues for me in this photo that the Rockettes are larger than life -- and the performers BEHIND the Rockettees make the Rockettes themselves look as big as large dolls! -- was that the end Rockettees on stage left(?) not only seem much, much larger than both the people in the orchestra pit and in the audience just in front of them (and closer to the camera, yet), but they also look a bit too big to fit behind those curtains on the stepped stages going up the side of the auditorium.

(By the way, I didn't notice how large the performers behind the Rockettes were [!] or that the curtains seem painted-in until just now.)

As a kid, I use to love to look at the movie stills outside a theater (there never seemed to be enough of them), and I remember wishing that RCMH, in particular, had more photos (and a greater variety of them) in the display cases along 50th St. I also remember being disappointed that this one photo of the Music Hall's interior (or a similar photo) seemed to be the one and only photo of the interior of RCMH that they ever showed in the display case -- and actually the one and only one of the interior of RCMH that you ever seemed to see anywhere.

Looking at "this" photo as a kid, I wanted to be overwhelmed by the giganticism of RCMH and its stage and was thus disappointed that the performers were so big and that the stage seemed so "small" (judging by the way the performers so easily filled it up) for such a large theater. Examining the photo as carefully as I could, I could sense that something seemed wrong about "the" photo, but couldn't put my finger on it -- couldn't find the smoking gun, so to speak.

It's ironic that the management of RCMH specifically wanted the performers to appear large (and thus have the stage appear "small"). I suppose they knew what they were doing, and perhaps my kid's mentality was the exception. But I would think that most people going to RCMH were not going to see live performers up close, anyway, but were going for the spectacle of it all -- enormous scenery, large crowd scenes, etc. -- in which case a stage full of tiny scenery and tiny, tiny performers would seem to me to be an asset in a publicity photo rather than a liablity.

To bring in another example: when I was a pre-schooler, and before I ever went to visit the Empire State Building, I remember being thrilled by the tales told to me by my slightly older friends who had been there. "The people on the sidewalk are so tiny, they look like little ants!" When I finally went to the Empire State Building, however, I was disappointed because the people on the sidewalk really didn't look all that small (and the Empire State Building, itself, didn't really look all that tall either)!

There are certain experiences where you want to be overwhelmed by enormous scale of things -- so seeing large crowds of tiny people, in these instances, would seem to me not to be a liablity but an asset! (At least if the sound applification was good enough for you to hear what is going on.) Now if RCMH management chose to enlarge the image of a movie screen in a photo of the interior, that would be a different story!

I don't know, from what I've read here and experienced at the Hall, a small screen and bad sound don't add up to much of a movie-going experience. But I still love the place!

P.S. -- Of course I could understand the management wanting the audience to think that they could see performers up close when RCMH was truly a "music hall." But, of course, RCMH was a true music hall only for a few weeks when the theater first opened.

- - - - -

Finally got around to re-reading the early posts in this listing -- great to see that RCMH listing has so many posts!

Especially loved reading the July posts from SimonL (explaining how the theater operated, and the practical difficulties of moving people in and out of a 5,945 seat theater), BoxOfficeBill (on the way the curtains were used to present a movie), and the post listing movies that played the Music Hall that was compiled by Ron3853(?) (which helped me remember when I saw certain movies there).

If I remember correctly, when I went to see "Crossed Swords" at the Music Hall (another poster mentions seeing it there in 1978) it was after it had been announced that they were considering closing the theater for good. It was such an emotional experience each time that the Rockettes came on -- everyone thinking that this might be the last series of shows that the Rockettes might ever do.

Around 1978 and 1979, I was a tourgroup leader who used to escort out-of-town tour groups to see the movie and the stage show at RCMH as part of a multi-day NYC tour package. If I remember correctly, RCMH was ususally scheduled for Sunday evening (the last evening of a multi-day visit), and it was great because there was actually very little else that one could do with a tour group in NYC on a Sunday evening.

I believe I saw "The Promise" with Kathleen Quinlan with one of these tour groups. Didn't realize that (according to another poster) this was the last regular movie shown at RCMH.

I think I also took a tour group to the first edition of the Christmas Spectacular after the Music Hall switched to its new format. I remember thinking to myself that the show wasn't all that good -- or, at least, that it needed a lot of work (although I was, of course, rooting for it to be good enough to "save" the Music Hall).

Perhaps the show wasn't that good, but to be fair perhaps I was also overcritical because I so wanted it to succeed. (My tour group liked it.)

One very strange "act" in the first edition that I believe they did drop though: at one point in the first of the new Christmas Spectaculars, they had a singer dressed as a homeless bag lady come out to sing a ballad. The idea, I assume, was to make a poignant statement about the disadvantaged at Christmastime.

I thought this was strange scene for the RCMH Christmas Spectacular, however, in part because homeless bag ladies were relatively new in New York City (with the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in the mid-1970s[?]) and I didn't think out of town tourists would really get what was happening. (If I remember correctly, the one or two people in my group that mentioned this scene didn't really know what it was supposed to be about, but more or less got the general gist -- rememember the disadvantaged at Christmastime, too -- anyway.)

I also thought it seemed to be too severe a departure from the tone of the rest of the show.

- - - - -

Re: why the Music Hall doesn't look so big from outside

I've wondered about this too, and here are some thoughts:

1) Some of the theater's public spaces are concealed in the office building fronting on Sixth Ave. (the ticket lobby and the lounges, etc. above it);

2) Most of the great size of the auditorium is in it's block long (200' wide) width, rather than it's length. And since the theater's width is concealed by the office building on Sixth and the office building on Rockefeller Plaza, you never really get to see from the outside how wide the theater is.

3) The theater has a plain exterior and the two buildings that bookend it also have the same plain exterior which blurrs the dimensions of the theater -- where does the theater begin and where does it end?

4) I'm not sure about this, but I believe RCMH has a somewhat sunken auditorium that lessens the apparent height of the theater.

Explanation: when I went by the theater the other day, the door to the loading dock that leads onto the stage was open and you could see onto the stage. If I remember correctly, this loading dock was flush with the sidewalk, which means parts of the auditorium are below street level.

The same holds, true, by the way with the Hudson Theater (which I'm more sure of). The loading dock to the stage is only inches above the sidewalk, which would mean the the first rows of the orchestra level are probably below sidewalk level.

(This is also common, I believe, in atheletic stadia [when a low water table permits it]. The playing field is below street level, and when patrons enter the field boxes from the surrounding street, they find themselves going down to the level of the playing field. Otherwise a lot of stadiums would be much taller -- like Shea Stadium with its high water table -- than they are now.)

5) The size of the theater might be camouflaged a bit by the beautiful grills that cover the firescapes and by the windows (to the executive offices and the dressing rooms) which, again, might help blur the difference between where the theater ends and the other buildings begin.

Benjamin: Your description of Krinsky’s photo seems weirdly familiar, and I’ll check it out on Monday. The most familiar photo of the Rockettes in full proscenium is Herbert Gehr’s, taken for Life Magazine in ’42 and reprinted in Charles Francisco’s “The RCMH.” The set depicts a WWII aircraft carrier, on whose deck the full-thirty-six kick up a storm in sailor-suits. (I have memories of this routine from my first visit to RCMH in Sept ’45 to see “Our Vines Have Tender Grapes” at the age of three, but that would take paragraphs to explain and verify geometrically.)

RCMH devoted one display case to “Camera Highlights of the Current Stage Show.” It was located among the front doors, second case from right on the 6 Ave side. (Francisco’s book provides a picture of it in the first color photo insert, third page verso.) If you went to the opening Thursday of a new production, that case would be bare: the pictures were likely taken during the early-morning dress rehearsal and were evidently still in the developing room when the first show let out at 1:15 pm. Unlike the other display cases that exhibited pictures only in b&w, this one offered color.

On 16 Jan. you mentioned the scene in “The Godfather I” shot in the lobby as Pacino and Keaton exit from the Christmas show of ’45. The film was “The Bells of St. Mary’s” (I saw that there too then, but it would take paragraphs to. . . my strongest memory of it has my grandfather laying a few bucks in the hand of an usher who then smuggled us inside through the 51 Street doors; whoever said the entire white-gloved platoon was incorruptible?). Coppola got the display cases right with their b&w stills of Crosby and Bergman. That’s exactly the format followed in those years, as those of us who stood on long lines around the block remember. About the marquee light bulbs, I know nothing, but a glance at the DVD might help answer the question.

Thought you might like to see the program from the opening week of the hall. I'm an out of print book dealer dealing in mostly film.

I don't think the 'sunken auditorium' Benjamin describes is at all uncommon- how many theatres have you been in where you have to step up into the lobby or orchestra level? I can't think of any.

While I think most theaters -- especially large older ones -- probably try to use a "sunken" arrangement, I can quickly think of quite a few theaters (in New York City at least) that, for one reason or another, haven't.

The two that come to mind the quickest are the main auditorium of Carnegie Hall and the now demolished Helen Hayes on 46th St. I believe in both of them you had to go up a steep, but small flight of stairs to get into the theater at the orchestra level (the back of the orchestra). Since both of these theaters also had box offices in their very small "stairway" lobbies, it made for very lobbies that were awkwardly memorable. (The renovation of Carnegie Hall somehow did away with the awkwardness -- can't remember exactly how.)

Plus there are two big old Broadway theaters (from the 1920s?), the Majestic and the Richard Rodgers, that have early versions of stadium seating in which the back of the orchestra level is a between a half-story and a full story above street level. (I believe in the Richard Rodgers you first go down a few steps to get into the lobby and then you go up a full flight of stairs for the back of the orchestra). I believe the Virginia (which used to be called the ANTA?), also from around the same time, has a similar set-up. Plus there are the more modern Broadway theaters (the ones that were built as part of office buildings) that really only begin after you get one or more flights off the ground: the Minskoff, the Uris, and the Mariott Marquis (correct name?).

Getting back to movie theaters, I think in the current Ziegfeld Theater, the entire (single screen) seating area of the theater is on the second floor. Plus in Manhattan and all over the country there are all those small multiplex theaters, probably very few of which are sunken.

But generally speaking, putting the back of the orchestra level at the same grade as the surrounding sidewalks does often seem to make the most sense, especially for a large theater.

Whether or not a theatre was "sunken" (having a rake to the floor) was often determined by local ordinances especially if they adopted the IFPA standardized building code into law. Obviously, the two primary criteria for an auditorium is that the audience be able to see the performance, and that the traffic patterns therein be swift and safe especially in an emergency. The best means to accomplish these objectives in a theatre of a single level of seating was to 'dish' the floor so that it sloped to some permissible extent, sometimes in the front as well as the rear. This also allowed the patrons to enter from grade at the sidewalk elevation, and gradually descend into the auditorium to preserve the sightlines for the audience. In many photos of theatres one can see the ramps or steps going up to grade in those exits at the front of the auditorium. In those auditoria with the 'stadium' plan of seating with a bank of seats on risers at the rear, the depth of the curve was even more important to allow access and good sightlines for all. Much of this is diagrammed on page 4 of the 1927 book "American Theatres of Today", sometimes still available as the 1977 reprint in one volume. While most theatres had stairs to some extent, every architect knows that they are a hazard, especially to the young and the elderly, so are to be avoided if possible, thus the impetus to avoid them at grade, and only employ them as an option for those who prefer the balconies. While wheelchair access was not usually thought of in early years, it turns out that the use of slopped (raked) floors was very beneficial to wheelchair users to this day.

As to the apparently odd photos that Benjamin mentions earlier, I wonder if he wasn't looking at skillful process prints which where there to promote the stage attraction, not the theatre. We visitors here are primarily theatres buffs, but the management of a theatre usually is not. They are businessmen charged with the task of turning a profit, and whether they manage a great theatre or a grocery store is often immaterial to them, since they are usually MBA types that see the same business principles as applying to both. So no, the theatre did not figure large in the viewpoints of such men, and if one wanted to see the theatre, then they expected one to buy a ticket for that privilege and not get a 'freebie' by viewing large photos of it. Also, if an outside producer were involved, you can bet that he didn't want his production to be dwarfed in the photos by the immensity of the Music Hall. He would therefore supply agreed photos to the theatre that he probably had made specifically to emphasize his people, and not the Hall. Process photography and expert retouching were commonplace even before the age of computer manipulation of images, so distorted views having a preferred, or 'enhanced' image were not unusual.

Does anyone know if the steam curtain is used anymore? I remember it so well as the jets, set around the perimeter of the stage apron, started to hiss and spout steam, and before you knew it the entire proscenium opening was hidden behind its billows. A dazzling effect when lit from the front or behind. I remember too the stagehand in a dark outfit slealthily scooting a mop over the nozzles after the effect was over...funny how the details of certain images stay with one over the years...

For the past several days now, whenever I go to the listing for RCMH, the page goes much wider than other entries, making it harder to read. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

This has happened to me on a lot of other pages here too, and yes it is annoying. Maybe Pat Crowley will read these words and offer an explaination, if not a cure. :)

Yes Warren, it's been bugging me as well.

Well, someone up above must have heard us, as it seems to have gone back to "normal," or at least in my case. Many thanks!

The reason why the page was not displaying correctly was because earlier, someone had posted a link which was far too long for the comments area. When that happens, the page is thrown out of alignment and will push the borders out too far. I've fixed the link. Just as a hint, it's helpful when sharing a long link to use the formula url=www.alonglink.com]alonglink[/url to avoid making the page look funny. In the real formula, you need to have a bracket in front of the 1st url and behind the last url but it won't display the formula if I do that here. Thanks!

Bryan Krefft
Cinema Treasures

Thanks Bryan, It's nice to know someone is out there watching over us as we stroll along memory lane thru your magnificent website.

My second to Vito's comments. One of the great pleasures of this site is the extreme care with which it is maintained. Thanks again!

Thanks guys for the kind words!

Refering to comments above about the size of performers in relation to the size of the house if one reads the Variety reviews of the stage shows in the 30's even then in an era used to large presentation houses critics complained about the size of the Hall and how distant and small the performers seemed. I remember one review that described the ballet as an army of red corpuscles battling the white.
Also the line from the Rodgers and Hart "At the Roxy Music Hall"-Where the actors seem to be a lot of midgets.

Vincent here hits upon the old dilemma which confronts all owners and builders/designers of theatres: at what point are more seats facing the law of diminishing returns? As more seats are added the owner may get greater income, but the audience will see less of the performance since they must be seated farther from the stage. The old opera houses of the previous centuries were galleries not only because they did not have the steel to create cantilevered balconies, but because the stacks of galleries kept the audience closer to the stage so that one could see the performers in some reality of size. And the human voice can only project so far. With the advent of motion pictures, the scale of image and the force of sound were much larger and it was then possible to cram lots more people into roughly the same foot print of land, thus making the potential profit on greater attendance much greater. This is why Radio City M.H. and a few other 'pageantoriums' like it cannot really be called 'theatres' in the traditional meaning of the word; they are beyond the size of realistic use of the human voice without amplification, and seeing someone on the stage --as opposed to one the screen-- means looking at dwarfed images that make the experience a parody of the real thing. With these concerns, RCMH faced a unique situation in that it was more of a civic auditorium than a traditional theatre or opera house, so one can easily see why special photos were made to enhance the performers rather than the hall.

Yes-- red corpuscles and all! Benjamin has mentioned Carol Krinsky's 1978 book on "Rockefeller Center," which I've just examined. The composite photo on p. 175 (recalled from a 50 Street display case) is an at least double composite, with Rockettes superimposed upon a crowded stage superimposed upon an open proscenium. Writing on the eve of the theater's change of policy, K refers to "giantism" as "the fatal flaw of the RCMH" (p. 180) and speculates about its future as "some sort of multi-purpose structure, or even a department store" (p. 183) (!).

For me, the most interesting visual in K's book is the theater's full floor plan and section cut on p. 169, showing the rake below street-level and the various scene docks and stage assembly rooms. What I had never encountered before is the small protruding room at the rear of the stage, elevated to mezzaine level and extending into the Associated Press Building behind RCMH. It appears to be labeled "projection room" (?) and was used for rear-screen projection?

To those who miss the combination film and stage shows at RCMH: wouldn't the upcoming film of the stage musical version of "The Producers" ---scheduled for release in mid-December---be the ideal Christmas attraction for RCMH? I know, wishful thinking.

Oh Eric, what an interesring idea, I think Mel Brooks would love to see that happen. Perhaps we should write him about it. Of course it could not be exclusive, too much money to be made in a wide Christmas release. I like your wishful thinking, it would make a grand time for Christmas in New York.

But guys even if the Hall management would want to do this(yeah right)is this a Christmas family film? Better a revival of Meet Me St Louis or Singing in the Rain.(They blew Mary Poppins big time.)Of course then I would have to go in and completely redo that wretched stage show.

I am curious about the great steam curtain that was used for special effects many times and was wondering if it is used any more. Jets, set around the perimeter of the stage apron, started to hiss and spout steam, and before you knew it the entire proscenium opening was hidden behind its billowing cloud- it literally obliterated the whole front of the auditorium. A dazzling effect when back or front lit to be sure. Also, I remember the hapless stagehand in a dark outfit slealthily scooting a mop over the nozzles after the effect was over.

Re: Stadium seating vs. the sunken, gradual rake of RCMH

One of the interesting benefits of a stadium seating design, at least as shown by the current Ziegfeld (movie theater), the Majestic, the Richard Rodgers and the Virginia ("legit" theaters), is that a very steep rake allows a theater's builder to save space and use his/her land more efficiently by tucking the theater's lobby beneath the rear of the theater's orchestra level (or its equivalent) seats. (The orchestra level then rakes downward, so that the front rows of the orchestra level are at or near ground level.)

In the case of at least two of these "legit" theaters (and perhaps all three), one actually first steps DOWN into the main lobby, before one must ascend a full flight of stairs again just to access the orchestra-level seating! And then, remember, all the "legit" theaters with stadium seating have balcony levels too, which involve even more stairs. Speak of being inconvenient! (And, as far as I know, none of the OLDER [pre-1960s] Broadway theaters [or concert halls, opera houses, etc.] -- even the more conventional ones -- had passenger elevators or escalators for ticket holders to use! Speak of being inconvenient for everyone -- let alone inaccessible and inhospitable to the handicapped!)

So I think one reason this design didn't catch on more in NYC, even in the pre-accessibility for the handicapped era, was because it did involve the introduction of a lot of stairs at a time when escalators (also, not seen as very classy) and elevators (in those days, with attendants!) were probably seen as being unnecessarily expensive. (As compared to the newer Broadway theaters and, I believe, the current Ziegfeld, which depend on escalators to get almost all patrons into the theater.) But I suppose, for certain theaters in the "old" days, where they really wanted to put a relatively big theater on a very small site, such a design probably was the only economically viable way to go.

In Radio City Music Hall, on the other hand, because of its enormous seating capacity (especially on the orchestra-level), the importance of its grand foyer to its overall presentation, the economic feasibility of elevators for grand movie palaces and the relative availability of a large parcel of land, a sunken and more modestly raked orchestra level was, quite understandably, a better way to go.

Re: photos of the interior of RCMH

The photos that I'm referring to, do not just show stage show, but also include a good deal of the "telescoping" interior of the auditorium PLUS the stage show. While these photos may have changed weekly, I'm guessing that this wasn't the case, as it was probably too involved to do every week. So I'm guessing that the "Camera Highlights" that BoxOfficeBill refers to was probably more of a photograph of what was happening on the stage and didn't include the auditorium with hundreds (thousands) of people filling the orchestra-level seats.

When I say I wished they had more photos of the interior of the auditorium, I am talking about a "greedy" little kid. (Same holds true for the wish for more movie stills, in general.) I'm just explaining why I think I so closely poured over the few photos that were available.

Of course, there is very little economic reason for the owners of the RCMH to provide more than just one stock shot of the interior (to acquaint those, who are otherwise unfamiliar with the theater, with its spectacular auditorium). For most potential customers, however, this one stock shot was probably sufficient to make them interested -- if they had any interest in the first place -- in seeing the theater.

It seems to me that in her book Krinksy (pg. 180) is implying that this photo, and others like it, are the work of the Radio City Music Hall publicity department -- meant to show off the theater rather than the stage show. In any case, as far as I know, almost all the shows produced at RCMH were done by RCMH itself, anyway. (The one exception that I can think of is I believe Disney was invited one time to put on a stage show to accompany one of his own films.) So I don't think the photo was altered to highlight the glories of a particular production. (Plus even with the enlargement, the photo doesn't really tell you much about what is happening on stage anyway.)

Although it is true that enterprises like RCMH are often run by MBA types rather than theater people, etc., I think this is very much more of a current day phenomenon -- something that wasn't true as much when Roxy "built" the theater, and probably wasn't all that true even when this photo was re-touched either. Reading various things about the history of RCMH, the history of the movies (with a lot of garment entrepreneurs become movie titans) and the history of business in general (prior to the 1960s), a surprising number of "big-time" businesses in the "old" days seem to be entrepreneurial operations (with non-college graduates running the show) or even "Mom and Pop" family operations.

Although RCMH management may, indeed, have been making the right decision regarding enlarging the Rockettes and the stage shows in these photos (my feelings could be the exception), it seems to me that they were being misguided and somewhat overly sensitive. To the limited extent that the photo makes any difference in the first place, I think they would probably be attracting more potential customers than they would lose.

Aside from being "fake" and "inauthentic" such photos seems to rob RCMH of some of its wonderful grandeur. How disappointing that, in the photo the world's largest stage, it is barely big enough to fit all 36 Rockettes! (It looks like you can squeeze in an additional two Rockettes on stage right and one more on stage left -- but that's it.) It would be like having an interior shot of the RCMH auditorium where they take out some of the seats and enlarge the rest of them to fill out the space!

Also, it seems to me that the kind of stage shows they had -- especially the ones that were the most effective -- did not depend upon theatergoers seeing the faces of the performers up close. Now my memories of these stage shows are a bit fuzzy (it was a long time ago and I was just a kid for most of them), but it seems to me that the actual appeal of the shows was in their overscaled pageantry -- something that is enhanced not diminished in a photo of a gigantic stage brimming over with spectacular scenery and dozens upon dozens of costumed performers.

Actually, as much as I know I enjoyed the stage shows at RCMH, I remember only one specific scene from, maybe, the five to ten shows I saw at RCMH: the Rockettes falling down like dominos during their "March of the Toy Soldiers" routine. (As far as I know, I never got to see gems such as the "Underwater Ballet" mentioned in previous posts.) So I don't think of these shows as conventional shows -- something to be seen, heard and understood -- but rather as shows intended to entertain through spectacle.

I hope those older than myself will correct me if I'm wrong. But aside from the Rockettes and some other clever and truly theatrical spectacles, it seems to me that the live shows at RCMH were bright, cheery, melodic and insipid (genuine) entertainments. While the shows were genuinely entertaining in the 1950s and 1960s, they were an entertainment world equivalent of 1950s and 1960s "comfort food"! (As was much of show business in the 1950s?!) The shows at RCMH were kind of a fancifully done up, spectacularly presented, feast of "Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup," "Wonder Bread," "Peter Pan Peanut Butter," "Welch's Grape Juice" and "Hostess Twinkies" all presented in an unparalleled environment! I don't think such entertainment, "suffers" from being seen on a giant, far away stage, but actually is enhanced by the theaters vast spaces, its echoy sound, its warm glow, the boomy rumbling organ, the mass of fellow spectators, and the giant, far away stage with tons of scenery and a virtual small town of costumed performers.

By the way, I suspect that this was true of the Music Hall in the 1930s as well as the 1950s. As mentioned previously there is a wonderful 1938 Rodgers and Hart song, "At the Roxy Music Hall" which is an affectionate send-up of Radio City Music Hall. The Lorenz Hart lyrics say that you don't have to read the ads to decide whether or not to go to the Roxy Music Hall:

"It's always worth the dough.
Any week you go,
It's the same old show!"

This lyric can be heard by the same performer who introduced it on Broadway on track 19 of the "Ultimate Rodgers & Hart, Vol. II" which is produced by the Pearl division of Pavilion Records Ltd. in England. (I got it at a local chain store.) But I noticed in the published version (from the "Complete Lyrics of Lorenz Hart" by Hart and Kimball, Knopf, 1986) that there is even more that isn't on the CD.

"The ballet that you saw is called "Othello",
though it might as well have been some other fellow.
The stuff's been here so long it's good and mellow."

Hart says that on the stage of RCMH you can see the Grand Canal and the Bridge of Sighs of Venice -- "They do Venice swell, and without the smell."

He also says:

"Where the spectacle goes on ad infinitum, and the picture is a second item."

Hart got that last line wrong. Even back in the 30's the success of a week at the Hall depended on what film was being shown.
Also the song from I Married an Angel(the whole musical is wonderful but would be too expensive to revive today and I would be the only person in the audience in any case)introduced a Balanchine production number which was the highlight of the show. From what I gather it was very funny including a Rockette line of 2 and an Undersea Ballet terrorized by a sea monster.

Also the photos of the stage shows alluded to above and placed in front of the theater were quite wonderful and I believe taken by a company called Impact. What I liked were the photos of old stage shows which were on 50th St. These were more spectacular as they were from the 50's and 60's. I'd like to know what happened to them as they are an invaluable record as to the what the shows actually looked like. A few can be seen in souvenir books from the era but there were many more.

While I agree that the picture was not the second item at RCMN -- that, for most of the year at least, people usually went to RCMH depending on what movie was being shown, and not depending upon what was in the stage show (the true details of which they probably didn't know about most of the time anyway) -- I think it's important to remember that the Rodgers and Hart song is an affectionate send-up with a lot of teasing "zingers" along the lines of a Friar's Club Roast. He's joking about some of the "awful" things that make RCMH so "wonderful" (the performers twirling on their digits with the balconies so high that they look like midgets, etc.)!

In a sense, Hart even contradicts himself, saying that while the show is "worth the dough" one shouldn't even bother looking at the ads -- since the show is the same every time anyway. This would hardly be true if "the picture is a second item."

- - - - -

Regarding the Roxy Music Hall Scene in "I Married an Angel." As I understand it (from either Richard Rodgers' or Joshua Logan's autobiography?), Hart originally got some flack for suggesting this scene, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with the storyline of "I Married an Angel" -- which takes place in Hungary(?)!

But Hart said it would be a fun, light-hearted, satirical diversion, and he was right -- people did enjoy it.

(Not only does it have a lot of great lines, the Rodgers' melody is a lot of fun too.)

By the way, how many other movie theaters/palaces have songs about them?

What about the line that goes something like-when you find yourself climbing up(to the 2nd and 3rd Mezz) and find the going hard
They are on their guard.
They send a St Bernard.

All this talk about the overblown aspects of theatres and stage shows reminds me of a joke I read in a 1920's joke book. (interesting that movie palaces were such a part of the public psyche that one could publish jokes involving them). Anyway..here goes.

A couple went to the movies on a date. During the presentation the young man got thirsty, so he left his seat and asked the usher if he could direct him to a drinking fountain "Certainly sir" was the reply, "just take the staircase to the left and walk through the art gallery, turn left and proceed down a row of potted palms. Then turn left... " and so the usher continued. After getting thoroughly lost, the young man finally stumbled into what seemed to be a forest glade with a babbling brook. In desperation he threw himself down to drink from the stream, and somehow found his way back to his seat. Seeing that the picture had started he asked his date "How was the stage show?" She replied "You ought to know, you were in it."

That's a funny joke Ziggy, thanks for posting it.

If you want to see a really prime cartoon with lots of great theater gags, check out the 1949 Warner Bros. cartoon "Hare Do." Elmer Fudd chases Bugs Bunny around a movie palace!

That joke, Ziggy, would go FLYING over the heads of everyone under the age of 50 or so. I'm 38 and I "get-it" because of my scant experiences and mostly due to my parent's descriptions of places like The Roxy and RCMH.

And yes, I know the "Hare Do" cartoon Bob speaks of. It's the one that culminates with Bugs Bunny leading Fudd through the darkened theater (he's actually wearing dark sunglasses) and it seems to take forever (at one point you hear the sounds of them walking through water!) and Bugs constantly saying (with an abrasive accent) "right this way sir."

Another funny scene that plays into the BIG theater theme is when Fudd is sitting in one of the upper balconies. When he looks down, he's so far up that the stage is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below him.

And how the audience runs out of the theater to smoke up a storm in the lobby!

Very funny stuff and Thanks Bob Furmanek for brining that one up.

So CC I guess you were born in 66 making that the year I first visited the Hall(October.) I thought the stage show was spectacular and my mother, who hadn't been there in years, remarked that it was pretty disappointing in comparison to the ones she had seen in the 40s and 50s.
Amazingly enough I saw a program on ebay from 33 or 34 where the stage show included some of the same features or acts that I saw in my very first show! Also the stage show I saw with the Timothy Dalton Wuthering Heights in 71(the Rockettes did a thing called Bayou Rythym and it was one of their great numbers) was the same as with the film Picnic in 56. I guess as the years went on the thing that basicially changed was scale of the presentation.

Ok, the presentation of the stage shows might've changed but we're running the possibiltiy of re-opening the can of worms that was run into the ground earlier about the abysmal (sp?) Christmas Show.

Yep, I was born in '66 and that probably puts me in the LAST generation that remembers (fondly) single screen large theaters that were well maintained. My guess is that anyone born after 1970 cannot remember these theaters at all well.

I first the Christmas show in 1972 with "1776" (a thudding bore to a 6 year old). But the Christmas show? Fantastic. And I saw it every year after that until around 1978. Each year was great. And as I stated above, I took my 8 year old daughter to see it this year expecting her to be amazed by it like I was and I cannot tell you how incredibly, jaw-droppingly AWFUL the thing was.

I do not recall ever seeing another show at RCMH besides the Christmas show though. I might've but I don't remember them.

BUT...the Music Hall itself is still grand and I will take my daughter on the tour sometime in the future. She LOVED the place more than the insipid show.

I remember "Hare Do"! I always preferred the Warner Bros. cartoons to any others, even as a kid. Now I have nieces and nephews who just don't get it.

CConnolly and others have asked for the complete text of the Christmas message that was presented as part of the holiday show. I found it on the web.





One Solitary Life
Here is a man who was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another village. He worked in a carpenter shop until He was thirty. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher.
He never owned a home. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family. He never went to college. He never put His foot inside a big city. He never traveled two hundred miles from the place He was born. He never did one of the things that usually accompany greatness. He had no credentials but Himself...

While still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. One of them denied Him. He was turned over to His enemies. He went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed upon a cross between two thieves. While He was dying His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had on earth – His coat. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.

Nineteen long centuries have come and gone, and today He is a centerpiece of the human race and leader of the column of progress.

I am far within the mark when I say that all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built; all the parliaments that ever sat and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as has that one solitary life.


This essay was adapted from a sermon by Dr James Allan Francis in “The Real Jesus and Other Sermons” © 1926 by the Judson Press of Philadelphia (pp 123-124 titled “Arise Sir Knight!”). If you are interested, you can read the original version . Graham Pockett

This is what is said currently in the holiday show?
Are they insane?
I had mercifully forgotten most of it.
Thank God Leonidoff is dead so as not to see this travesty. He would be aghast.
Maybe they can invite Mel Gibson to stage The Gory of Easter.

I say kill the Christmas show next year, it's time to put it out of it's misery. Let us have a big December release movie and a new holiday theme stage show, with the Rockettes, produced by someone who has the vision to start a new tradition. I want the steam curtain, the stage curtain going up and down through out the show, and the orchestra to come up from the pit roll to the rear of the great stage. What else do we want?

Oh, GOD...I did NOT ask for a transcript! Why did I have to read that! Again! I was appalled that the Christmas show would do something like that. Why would they do that? The one I saw as a kid was so subtlety affecting that it was a marvel. I've never forgotten it.

The only thing I can think of is that it's part of the roadshow version of this show. They play this Christmas show across the country and someone genius must've thought this would've been great in red states. By in NY? Oye.

There were plenty of movies that could've/should've opened at RCMH this year. "Lemony Snicket", though mediocre, would've looked great up there and it's essentially a family film. Christ, even "Meet the Fockers" would've been a huge sell out with Stiller's following COUPLED with Streisand's (the gay attendence would've kept it there for weeks).

I KNOW people my age are ready for a return to the BIG movie houses. Just look at how well the megaplexes are doing. Why? It's not just the stadium seating but the LARGENESS of the auditoriums and the screens.

I'm amazed by the relentless Christian-bashing by many on this page. Multitudes exit the Music Hall each December grateful for having the true message of Christmas presented. That includes many life-long NYC residents, of which I am one. My parents took me for the first time on my 4th birthday in December, 1969. I plan to continue to bring my family for many years to come.

We're not bashing Christians at all. Read my posts above and I state that the original Christmans Nativity scene (back in the 70's) was truly remarkable. What I object to (and I'm sorry if this sounds like Chrisitan bashing) was/is the rather over the top narrative that is scrolled at the end of the Christmas show.

The original Nativity was a model of craftmanship. It was a subtle gem. You didn't have to be a Christian to be moved by it. As a kid, it brought tears to my eyes it was sooooooooooo goood. And I was a non religeous kid to boot.

I brought my daughter to see the show expecting her to experience the same thing. And what did I get? The equivilent of an amusement park show with an underwhelming Nativity scene AND an over the top narrative to wrap it up. She, even at 8 years old, commented on how out of place it was.

I not bashing Christians. I'm bashing the present Nativity and Christmas show.

Leonidoff's Nativity and Glory of Easter were two of my favorite theatrical events.
The current show is a manifestation of current religious smugness and righteousness(and Christians are not the only perpetrators.)
If RH were not so quick to label us as Christian bashers(I was raised a good Catholic boy) he or she would understand that what we find objectional is the reduction of a great theatrical pageant narrating the story of Christmas using imagery from Rennaissance painters to a flattened out fundamentalist tract that does little to impart the true meaning of Christmas and only reinforces a tendancy to assume superiority.
Leonidoff avoided this while at the same time creating a thrilling sense of exhiliration. And he was Russian Orthodox!!!
What in the world has happened to us?
Christian bashing indeed.

I think the producers of the current Christmas show must realize that the Nativity scene has the potential to turn off viewers. Notice that it's now at the END of the show, not the beginning as it was before. I remember how the house lights would dim and that solemn, beautiful Nativity scene would begin.

Honestly, it was the highlight of the show. Yeah, the Rockettes were memorable but for me, after all these years (almost 30! Oye!) it's the Nativity that stays with me.

I was moved by the narration at the end and felt it was in keeping with the nativity scene. But I seem to remember it even back in the 1970s when I saw my first movie at the Hall, "Bedknobs and Broomsticks." So my question is, when exactly was this text added to the Christms Show?

Well, it was not in the Christmas shows that I saw in the 70's.

When I went to the Christmas show a few years ago, there were quite a few people that left when the Nativity segment began. I had a family of 7 or 8 right in front of me (with small children) get up and leave. It took them several minutes to gather their things, and they weren't trying to be too quiet about it either.

Needless to say, it was VERY distracting for those that wanted to stay!

Bob they did you a favor.
Yes there was a narration in the original Nativity. However it was more like the Linus narration in Charlie Brown Christmas which I happen to think is wonderful.
Banal pieties seem to have taken the place of eloquence and brevity.

At the risk of offending just about everyone, it would seem to me that RCMH might do better staying away from the nativity sequence altogether and stick with entertainment. Leave the religious aspects to those institutions recreating nativity scenes already and in surroundings better suited to it.

Vincent, perhaps they did me a favor. But at $100 a ticket, I want to see everything - good OR bad!

$100! Sheesh!
For $100 I expect to see My Fair Lady.
With the original cast.

Wouldn't [that] be Loverly?

http://www.epinions.com/content_86937210500

It's interesting that during all this talk about the Christmas show, no one has mentioned another seasonal and religious-oriented tradition: "Kol Nidre" that was presented every September (app.)during the high Jewish holy days. Like the "Nativity," it preceded a regular show with the Rockettes, ballet, choral ensemble and symphony orchestra. The traditional "Kol Nidre" melody was played by a solo cellist at stage left and sung in cantorial style by a solist (seen) the choral ensemble (unseen). The backdrop was simply rolling clouds. There was no accompanying narrative, but it was reverential, brief, and tasteful. I can't tell you when it began or how many years it remained a tradition.

Regarding sam_e's comment about doing away with The Nativity scene altogether, I'm surprised that they haven't done so yet. From a PC point of view, it might be considered too Christian (why not call it the "Radio City Holiday Show"?). I'm joking here...

During this whole "discussion" last week about the narration that I did not like, I thought EXACTLY as Vincent did of the beautiful Charlie Brown Christmas show and how nicely the integrated the story of the Nativity into the show without beating it over your head. It's graceful and, most importantly, subtle.

No one wants or needs to have ANY religon rammed down anyone's throats. What people DO like and appreciate is a story, even if it's religous, told in an intelligent and thoughtful way. THAT is what made the old Nativity so good. It didn't force it's message on you. It made you "feel" by it's subtle, beautiful and unforced presentation. Less is more...

How unfortunate today that things must be extreme. Just saw some of the Big Spender number from the revival of Sweet Charity on TV last week. The jaded dance hall hostesses of New York 1966 have become soft core Russ Meyer vixens circa 1973. In todays entertainment world your either a dogma thunping fundamentalist or an arrested development teenage prostie like Britney.
The Hall is just another symptom of todays cultural rot.

The underground boxoffice was apparently originally built for the convenience of shoppers at Rockefeller Center's subterrranean arcade, since there was no subway station when RCMH first opened. It was still the time of the elevated Sixth Avenue line. The underground Sixth Avenue station didn't open to the public until December 1940. When that happened, use of the RCMH underground boxoffice more than tripled, and an extra window had to be opened during peak times, according to report in The New York Times of 12/18/40.

The underground boxoffice was also very useful in that large prepaid -groups could be guided there to gain entrance to the theater and avoid conflict the patrons waiting in the street line. However, as far as my memory serves, the underground boxoffice was closed to individual patron ticket sales when there was a street line. As you can surmise, it would have been unfair to allow admittance to the theater by this little known route while others (possibly)were waiting in the rain and snow.

Re: Radio City Music Hall underground boxoffice

Thanks Warren for the fascinating info -- especially with the date of the article itself. With the date, it was a cinch to find the article to check it out. Given what I've read about Rockefeller Center in Krinsky and Loth, however, I'd like to offer a slightly different interpretation of what it says.

From the very beginning of the construction of Rockefeller Center everyone knew that there were plans for the Sixth Avenue elevated to come down, and for a subway to be built in its place. The underground concourse was planned with the subway in mind. The underground concourse was to provide a weather-controlled passageway between all the buildings of Rockefeller Center and the subway -- and the corridors would be lined with shops.

But as it happens, until the subway was actually built, Rockefeller Center had a hard time getting people down underground to shop there. Which makes sense, really, when you think about it: who wants to go downstairs a full-story below the street in order to shop in small stores along narrow dead end corridors -- and, especially during the Great Depression, when even more conveniently located street-level stores were having problems attracting customers?! (And what kinds of stores are going to be able to survive in such an inconvenient underground environment? With probably few store owners willing to risk it, there were also probably too few stores to attract shoppers -- a vicious cycle.)

Actually, even unto this very day the concourse has some trouble attracting people outside of "rainy day" traffic and people using it during the rush hours. This is one reason that the landmarks preservation community didn't raise a fuss (a grave mistake, in my opinion) when the new owners of Rockefeller Center decided to remodel large portions of it a few years ago.

The original (and much more severe) problem with the concourse was due, I think, to a combination of naivete on the part of the builders of Rockefeller Center (being pioneers, they didn't realize it wouldn't work at all without a subway) and the subway being built a little behind schedule (leaving them stranded a little longer than they thought they'd be). I don't have the Krinsky and Loth books handy, but I think they discuss the specifics.

By the way, the creation of the skating rink at Rockefeller Center is related to the problem of getting people down to the underground concourse. Originally the area was intended as a plaza / grand entryway to the underground concourse (which is why the pedestrian way from Fifth Ave. slopes down towards the skating rink). With the concourse attracting far fewer people than expected before the construction of the subway, the owners of Rockefeller Center decided to make it into a skating rink in the winter -- and the rest is history!

Getting back to the box office. My guess is that the box office was built and operated with the completion of the subway in mind. (Given the paucity of shoppers before the subway, it's hard to imagine them building and staffing it for seven years solely to catch the nearly non-existent shopping trade.)

I wonder if maybe the box office wasn't actually put into operation until maybe just a few months or so before the subway opened -- which, given the way things usually happen, probably opened later than originally announced. The article just says that use of the box office tripled -- it doesn't indicate, however, the period that they are comparing it to. So my guess is that they are comparing the period just after the opening of the subway with the few months prior to the subway opening (a period when the subway was supposed to be open, but wasn't).

"Use of the subway-level box-office in Radio City Music Hall has more than tripled since the opening of the Sixth Avenue subway, it was reported yesterday by the management."

So when was this box office permanently closed? From the very early 70's I don't remember it ever being opened. Also when did the Music Hall start letting group sales in by this entrance? I seem to remember that the Music Hall didn't start allowing group sales with preferential entrance privileges until about 1970. I believe Pauline Kael in her review of the 69 Christmas show writes about the groups of school children being forced to join the outside line which seems kind of strange.

I wonder if the Rockefeller Center management has some kind of plans for the box office. Not that long ago, a MAJOR renovation was done to the concourse area. Strange that they would leave the box office there. Either it has some kind of structural element, it's landmarked as part of RCMH or they have plans for it in the future...

I'm wondering if the RCMH patrons who had first mezzanine reserved seats could enter that way and avoid the crowds, lines and general chaos of the lobby. The Metropolitan Opera also allows patrons who have dinner reservations on the Grand Tier to use the entrance located in the underground shopping and garage area.

From street level that would not have been a problem as they could enter by the front entrance thereby avoiding the line on 50th St. However they then would have had to deal with the main lobby. If they enterd by the lower level they still would have to have dealt with walking across the lower lounge to get to the elevators.

More trivia: The executive entrance on 50th Street was also used by guests of the management, celebraties, and preferred patrons, who could walk down a few steps, be greeted at the desk then escorted by an usher on to the executive elevator and taken directly to the first mezzanine.

I took a quick look at the Krinsky and Loth books to see what they had to say about the underground concourse. I was kind of surprised to see that, at least from a quick glance, they really don't have much to say about it -- most of their comments are actually about the "entry plaza" to the underground concourse (the "entry plaza" is the area that was eventually transformed into a winter ice skating rink) and about the stores that were around the sides of this plaza when it first opened (where the restaurants are now).

It is with regard to these shops that they say business in the pre-subway years was bad. But I suppose it's fair to assume that the shops further into the concourse were probably even worse off -- as they were even more inconveniently accessible.

Some quotes:

Loth (pgs. 100-101) "On the whole, Rockefeller Center was successful in achieving its shop objectives [i.e., renting out to desirable, financially worthy tenants]. But the mortality of such establishments in the 1930's was high . . . . Not the least of the difficulties concerned the underground maze of corridors and concourse . . . . the concourse was planned to link up with the station of a new Sixth Avenue subway. But the rackety old elevated train still ran."

Loth (pg. 149) "[The Lower Plaza -- the site of the skating rink -- was] Orphaned by the long delay in the Sixth Avenue subway . . . [and] failed as a passage bringing pedestrians from the promenade into the shops that originally lined it. After a couple of years of hesitation and debate, the shops were replaced by a couple of restaurants, and the Lower Plaza [where the skating rink is] was no longer even a passage into the concourse."

- - - - -

As far as I can recall, I first visited the underground concourse in the mid-1960s, and I don't really remember the box office opposite the underground entry into Radio City Music Hall being used then (although the corridor into the Music Hall was apparently in operation). But, of course, it may have been open other hours, or maybe it was open and I just didn't notice it, or I noticed it and don't remember it now. But in my memories, at least, it was a "funny" presence in the underground corridors (like those abandoned stations or corridors that you sometimes see in the subways).

As mentioned in a previous post, I think when I took my tour groups into the Music Hall in the late 1970s we were told to use this entrance.

- - - -

While it is possible that the Rockefeller Center management may have future plans for the box office, my interpretation of the meaning its presence post-renovation is different.

It seems to me that the one of the main reason the management renovated the underground concourse was to close off corridors and use the space to create new storefronts or enlarge existing ones. (Larger storefronts are seen, I believe, as more appropriate for modern day retailing and easier to rent out to financially sound large companies.) It seems to me that holdovers from the past, like the box office, were left alone if they didn't interfere with this or other goals of the renovation. I think this would be especially true with a small "oddity" such as the box office and the stairs behind it -- why tear them out unless you have something specific in mind to replace them with?

If I recall correctly, the Landmark Preservation Commission did review the changes to the underground concourse (along with other changes that were done all throughout the Center). While it's possible that they may have protected it, I tend to doubt it, as they let so many other, much more noticeable and more important, features of the Center be demolished. (For instance they allowed management to totally close off some functional, handsome art deco entrances to the buildings on Fifth Ave. in order for these corridors to be incorporated into larger storefronts.) And when you think about it, how aesthetically and historical important can this box office and stairs be if even the cinema enthusiasts of Cinema Treasures know so little about them?

I doubt that a box office would be structurally important. At the very least, it's easy to imagine them boarding it over or re-paneling it if they wanted to use it and the surrounding stairways differently.

Is Mr. Rober Enders (sp?) still with us. He was (is) the master RCMH projectionist, who said the famous line: "you aint been boo'ed until you been boo'ed by 6000 people." And I was the one who, as an Army projectionist in Ft. Totten (Queens, NY), who said, "and you ain't been boo'ed until you been boo'ed buy 500 drunk army guys on a Friday night."

Since we're kind of discussing RCMH oddities, I remember back in 1977 when I took the NBC tour which included a backstage tour of RCMH we were shown this odd "room" which overlooked the orchestra level of the auditorium. It was on the right hand side of the auditorium and was about (I'm guessing here) about twelve feet above the auditorium floor and was angled to see the stage though you could clearly see most of the auditorium from it. It was about 3/4 down towards the stage. There was soundproof glass in the room and it was small (only fit about four people). The tour guide said that it was impossible to be seen in this room by anyone in the auditorium. I never understood what purpose this room served unless it was for VIP's or for security.

I wonder if it's still there. Does anyone else recall seeing or hearing of anything like this?

In answer to veyoung's question -- Yes Robert Endres is still with us -- or at least I was when I looked into the mirror this morning (although I still haven't been booed by 500 drunk army guys on a Friday night)! The room OConnolly is referring to is probably one of the two broadcast booths on either side of the auditorium. Since Roxy was supposed to do a radio show from the broadcast studio over the auditorium, there were extensive broadcast options built into the Hall including tie lines to NBC's studios across the street. One of the booths in the auditorium became the tape playback room when the Hall changed fomats in 1979.

REndres, Nice to hear fom you, as a projectionist for many many years I always wondered about any projection horror storys at RCMH. Would you share any? I can still hear the guys in thr booth calling out the changeover cues.

Also, which years did you work the booth?

And I am so happy that you are still with us.I got a number of questions to ask of you, if you don't mind.

Can any of the projectionists remember this. I seem to remember (or am I dreaming?) that showings of "Kiss Me Kate" were projected in both 3-D and regular...either alternately on the same day or every other day.

I think that Kiss Me Kate did not show in 3-D at the Music Hall. I'll ask Bob Furmanek to add his expertise about 3-D to this thread.

One story might concern "No Down Payment," with Bette Davis, which opened at RCMH on 15 Feb. '51. The film had been made much earlier and then shelved, but upon the success of "All About Eve" was hastily released, though with a new ending that RKO finished on the eve of opening day. The new final reel was reportedly still in flight from LA when the projectionist had started the first screening on W 50 Street, and it arrived in the booth just minutes before it was due on the screen.

It would have been pretty bizarre for the Hall to have presented Kate in 3D. The logistics of handing out the thousands of glasses and then collecting them for each performance and then dealing with all the people who have no idea it's in 3D and then disturb the others to complain. What a nightmare.
KMK is a very good George Sidney MGM musical and on the whole makes little use of the 3D effects. While it's enormous fun to see it with a two projector system it stands on it's own.
That all being said how about it being included on a 3D festival at the Loew's Jersey?

Kiss Me Kate looked great when I showed it in double-system 3-D last year at the Lafayette, Vincent. There are many good depth effects and few off-screen gimmicks (other than one 30 second section). The projection angle of the Jersey might make 3-D presentations difficult down there.

RCMH ran "Kiss Me Kate" in the "flat" version, but the movie was shown in 3-D when it played the Loew's neighborhood circuit. The second feature at Loew's was "Fighter Attack," an Allied Artists programmer in garish CineColor. I would imagine that many patrons suffered headaches after watching all that for upwards of three hours.

It was planned to run "Kiss Me Kate" at the Hall in 3-D, and in fact, it was announced that it would run without the intermission as the Hall had four projectors. Ben Olevsky, who was Head Projectionist at the time, told me that everythng was set up, and they did indeed run a test run in 3-D, where it was discovered that they would lose about 2,000 seats because of the light drop off from the gain screen in the corners of the auditorium. At that point the Hall was still filling its seats, and it was felt that the economic loss would be too great. Theatres in the rest of the country took the attitiude, "Well if Radio City won't bother with 3-D why should we?" I always thought that the Radio City rejection might have been the turning point that killed 3-D. Ironically, the current Christmas show at Radio City starts with a 3-D segment, projected on two projectors with 7,000 watt lamps,and from 70mm film running at 30 frames per second. Its a short segment, but everyone I've talked to who has seen it says its very impressive.

The Bette Davis film that BoxOfficBill refers to is "Payment on Demand" (not "No Down Payment). Also the original and long publicized title of the Davis film was "Story of a Divorce." It was changed just before the opening.

Right-- "On Demand," not "No Down"-- sorry for the slip. The date is accurate. Is the story about the projection booth true?

Re: the 3D film at the beginning of this year's Christmas show. It's mediocre. It's not very long and it's way skimpy on the 3D effects. I thought it was/is a great idea to open the show but it's not very imaginatively done. You will see much better 3D shows at Disney. (I know...I'm stomping on the Christmas show again....)

The opening effect is intended as a prologue, and one of the reasons they decided to go ahead with a 3-D effect is that it is short. There are still problems when using the gain screen necessary for 3-D at Radio City. The downward angle is about 19 degrees, and the auditorium is a block wide. Thus there are still some places where the light and polarization may not be optimum even with a 70' wide screen. It was gutsy of them to go ahead (and yes -- deal with all those 3-D glasses). Vito, in answer to your question -- I started as Head Projectionist at Radio City in January of 1974 and left in 2000. Long enough to get a 25 year gold ring from Madison Square Garden.

For the Christmas show, they give you the glasses with each program and they did a good job ensuring that everyone had them. The announced repeatedly that everyone should have the glasses and the attendents were very good about getting them out. You could keep them at the end.

Like I said, the movie was fine and I understand why it was short. I was just a little surprised that they did not utilize more 3D effects. Again, I think I'm expecting too much now...

Contrary to urban legend, KISS ME KATE had a very wide 3-D release. Despite the Music Hall's flat presentation, the film opened wide on the Loew's circuit in 3-D just in time for Christmas, 1953. It even played sub-run engagements in its depth version.

In fact, MGM had to strike additional left/right 3-D pairs to meet exhibitors demand for prints.

Bob

Interesting because according to Variety grosses KMK doesn't seem to have done all that well at the Hall being a fall film. I think at this point in 53 the Hall while still in the black was beginning to feel the effects of TV. The MGM films that came out in 54 in cinemascope certainly look like they were made on a tight budget as compared to films like Band Wagon and KMK which are first class all the way. In terms of production values Knights, Seven Brides and Brigadoon look as if the original budgets were cut in half(Ansco color!)Did Kate do better in the burbs in 3D?

Judging by the demand for extra 3-D prints, I would say it was more successful than anticipated.

The opening of "Kiss Me Kate" was very well timed and thought out. It played 4 very satisfactory weeks during November 1953 and over the traditionally slow Thanksgiving season. That primed it for its wide Christmas release. It followed a hugely successful 5 week run of "Mogambo." The stage show with "Mogombo" was a salute to air-travel and featured the simulated flight of a huge jet liner across the stage. Does anyone remember more detail?

As a side note, the New York Theater Organ Society is sponsoring a concert on "The Grand Radio City Music Hall 4/58 Mighty Wurlitzer" on Saturday afternoon, February 19th.

Check the NYTOS web page at http://www.nytos.org/ for details.

Mogambo! Wow, Clark Gable, Ava Gardner and Grace Kelly...how could you top a cast like that.
As a wide-eyed, impressionable eight year old, the movie was always lost on me, completely overwhelmed by the Music Hall itself.
A small part of that "Salute to Air-Travel" stage show has stayed with me all these years and if I close my eyes and think about it now, I'm there.
Picture it: On stage, a mock-up of what seemed to be a DC-3 Gooney Bird. Passengers and stewardeses (this was long before there were flight attendents) running across the "tarmac", going up the gangway whilst waving frenetically to imaginaries in the wings. House lights dimmer and dimmer, and, and, WHOA! what's that hiss? A curtain of steam rises before the proscenium as the house gets darker and darker, almost pitch dark. In the blackness before us floats the fantastic illusion of clouds and behind them, with running lights blinking and cabin lights ablaze, lost in those clouds, a distant DC-3 flys across the stage.
I think, though I'm not sure, that this was the finale of the stage presentation. Don't remember what happened next, but do remember the stage hand with the mop, scooting across the stage apron mopping up the remenents of fantasy.

So convinceing this stage-craft, witch-craft, trompe l'oeil, that a half century later it still plays well to me and evokes warm nostalgia.
Oh, glorious, mighty hall...I'll stop now.

GREAT recollection, thanks Robbie.

I feel as if I were there!

With Mary Queen of Scots the stage show was Winter Cruise where half way through the stage was transformed into the image of an ocean at night with a small model of a ship in the distance floating across the stage. On the Twentieth Century utilized this concept for the great Imogene Coca train chase in the second half to show two trains going past each other in the middle of the night as the cast chased Coca all over inside and outside the train. It always got a big hand.
This effect must go back to the beginning of presentation house stage shows.

i think all of you guys/gals are magnificent.I am gathering a list of questions for Mr. Enders, and anybody else. Me: I',m just an audience member.

In 1940, the annual Christmas stage show ran only from December 19th through December 29th. The movie, RKO's remake of "No, No, Nanette," was shown for one week, and was replaced on December 26th by MGM's "The Philadelphia Story," which continued from December 30th with a new and entirely different stage show, "Pan Americana." The Katharine Hepburn-Cary Grant-James Stewart comedy proved one of the biggest hits in RCMH's history up to then, playing six weeks and grossing $594,000. MGM earned rentals of $155,000, nearly as much as it paid for the movie rights to the property, which had been a hit play on Broadway...In its first week at RCMH, "The Philadelphia Story" grossed $130,000 (actual attendance was 183,435). Four of those days were with the Christmas show, the balance with "Pan Americana" (which included Ravel's "Bolero" and may have been RCMH's first presentation of that spectacle).

Is this the only example of a movie at the Hall having two different stage shows during the same run? Could it be that Nanette was such a disappointment that they rushed in Philadelphia story and felt it was too early to change the Christmas show? I believe up until then the Nativity was always still playing at New Years. This might be the only time it wasn't.
The last time Bolero was done was in 70 which much to my regret I did not see. In 71 they did the last Rhapsody in Blue and in 72 they did the last Undersea Ballet. When I worked there I remember somebody saying that the huge revolving mirrored disc which was the centerpeice of Blue had been dismantled and given out and somebody using it for his house. From within they were destroying everything that made the Hall great. I wonder if the Glory of Easter set and costumes still exist.

The "Showplace" programme handed out to patrons during the engagement of "No, No, Nanette" said that "The Philadelphia Story" was opening December 26th, so I don't think it was a sudden, last-minute decision. More likely, management thought that "Philadelphia Story" was too "adult" for the family audiences that patronized the Christmas show. "Nanette," being a musical comedy, would have been easier for kids to endure. Also, RKO Radio may have wanted to get the prestige of a Music Hall booking for "Nanette," which starred British star Anna Neagle, not a favorite of American exhibitors. Curiously, the RCMH booking prior to "Nanette" was the Technicolor spectacle, "Thief of Bagdad," which would have been a much better choice for the Christmas show.

I wondered about the 3-D projection at the Christmas show, thanks for that info. REndres, how are they running movies today? I know a platter was installed for "Lion King" in order to show it in 70mm with a 35mm interlocked Dolby digital soundtrack. Is the platter still in use or do they show films (Harry Potter, etc)on 2000k or 6000k reel to reel?

I'll have to check with Brad Hohle of Dolby when he gets back from the Coast as to which recent premieres have been run from a platter. Brad who was on the MH crew when I was there was also instrumental in designing the "Lion King" motion-picture sound system, which put a full set of surround speakers in the Hall for the first time. He usually is the Dolby rep for premieres. I do know that the last few have been digital rather than on film. The HBO premiere of "The Sopranos" was presented digitally for obvious reasons. This Christmas the "Christmas With the Kranks" premiere was done with two Texas Instrument DLP projectors superimposed from the First Mezzanine. I think the program source was a server and not D-5 tape(which is also used for premiere presentations). The two projectors put out about the same light as the 70mm machines in the booth, and ran on the same 65' wide "Scope" ratio screen as the 35mm image. That would have been an advantage for the booth crew, since the booth set-up for the Christmas Show would not have to be disturbed. (When we did the "101 Dalmations" premiere for Disney, we again locked a 70mm machine with platter to a 35mm machine with plaatter for Dolby Digital sound. The other two 70mm machines were run "reel-to-reel" as back-up as was the case for the premiere of "Lion King". Everything had to then be put back and the projectors repositioned for the next morning's Christmas Show). Radio City doesn't have a platter in the booth, but brings them in as needed, although I think you'll be seeing more and more premieres done digitally.

Nanette seems to have been one of those strange choices for a holiday show(the Easter show had some really bizarre films) that the Music Hall would sometimes make. No Hollywood stars and no Vincent Youman's score! So what was left was a dreary black and white comedy. Maybe some powerful exec at RKO who wanted the prestigious Christmas booking to launch a film that needed all the help it could get held a gun to their heads.

Hey Vincent, this will clear up your question whether the Christmas show always played through the New Year. In 1935, "The Littlest Rebel" played only 11 days (split week)Dec 19 -29 with "Magnificent Obsession" opening on the 30th, also playing 10 days (another rare split week). In 1936, "Rainbow on the River" played Dec 17 - 30. The Girl from Paris (Lili Pons) opened on the 31st. In 1937, "I'll Take Romance (Grace Moore) played Dec 16 - 29. "Tovarich" opened on the 30th. In 1938, "A Christmas Carol" played one hot week Dec. 22 - 28. "Topper Takes a Trip" opened Dec 29 also for just one week. In 1939, "Balalaika" played Dec 14 - 27. "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" opened on Dec 28. That of course, brings us back to "No No Nanette." However, in 1941, " HM Pulham Esq" played Dec 18 - 30. "Babes on Broadway" opened on Dec 31. Anyway that sort of establishes that the Christmas show didn't always make it into the New Year.

Excellent Simon. Thanks so much. I'm always discovering great films that played at the Hall. Didn't know Hunchback of Notre Dame opened there. Now what in the world is HM Pulham Esq?

For the Anna Neagle version of "No, No, Nanette," most of the original score was scrapped, but the title song, "I Want to Be Happy," and "Tea For Two" remained. Neagle's previous musical for RKO, "Irene," had been beem a surprise boxoffice hit earlier that year, so that probably helped "Nanette" to get the Christmas booking. "Irene" had also opened at the Music Hall and went on to become RKO's third most successful release of 1940 nationally, earning a profit of $364,000. It was preceded only by "Kitty Foyle" (Ginger Rogers) and "My Favorite Wife" (Cary Grant & Irene Dunne).

Vincent, you must not be watching the TCM channel. "H.M Pulham,Esq" is a charming and witty film directed by King Vidor and based on a story by John P. Marquand. It stars the gorgeous Hedy Lamarr as the woman who encourages proper Bostonion Robert Young out of his shell. It received rave reviews and did excellent business.

To be honest I've already seen quite a number of films TCM shows at the Regency, MOMA, Film Forum and Biograph. I find that when I see these same films on TV they're greatly diminished and have nowhere near the impact they have on a movie screen. So if I've never seen a film before I don't want to see it for the first time on television. I know I'm in the minority and that few people go to revival screenings anymore. I find silents especially deadly on TV.
Billy Wilder once said that he didn't dislike any director enough to watch his movies on TV.

Vincent, you are a purist and as such to be commended. Did you by any chance see "Young Bess" at the Music Hall in 1953 when the breathtaking stage show recreated the coronation of Queen Elizabeth. Meanwhile the Guild Theater (next door) was showing the gorgeous Technicolor documentary "A Queen is Crowned." What a time for anglophiles.

I did see Young Bess at the Regency and thought it was terrific. I only wish I was around during the 50's. Where I work now is only a few blocks from Radio City and how I wish I could head over for the 6PM stage show after work and then a spectacular Hollywood movie(sorry but Ben Stiller and Reese Witherspoon just don't do it for me.)
With the upcoming organ concert one can imagine the Rockettes and then an Astaire Rodgers RKO musical after. And if there is one person out there who doesn't think Swing Time is one of the top ten American films of all time they can go and join the AFI where people like Lucas and Spielberg are considered great directors.

Also trying to arrange my schedule to attend the one-hour organ concert at RCMH. It always chokes me up as "sense memory" immediately churns up all the days and nights thrilling to the organ interludes, films and stage shows. Perhaps Vincent, you remember that if you went to the first show on Sunday, the doors opened around 11:15 am and the film didn't start until noon. Dick, Ashley, or Ray would play for more than 30 minutes with a stop (no pun intended). Otherwise you had to be content with the five-minute breaks.

I do remember and hope that many of the people who contribute to the site are able to make it(myself including.) It's been years since I've been there as there hasn't been a thing I've wanted to see and I know when I see all the cables and speakers that Cablevision has all over the place I'm going to have to grit my teeth.
Is the organ still played when they have a special movie premiere?

They played the organ before the Christmas show started. At first, it was just one on the left hand side. Then, as a finale, the one on the right came out and finished things up with a kind of organ duet. My daughter LOVED it! She thought it was part of the show.

REndres, You certainly answered my question. thanks very much. I was sad to hear they used digital projection and can't help wonder why.
It seems mad to me to run two digital projectors instead of simply running film (the way God intended). Even for "The Sopranos", isn't that shot on film? so why not show it on 35mm?
Seriously, what is the advantage to what they did?
I remember a Techicolor tech telling me they could never run digital projection at RCMH because of the long throw and light needs, well I guess they found a way, and I guess a server would work better than tape. I remember when those surrounds went up, if I recall, Ray Dolby himself was involved in the Lion King job, always thought there were too many surrounds, have they removed some of them?
As for platters, last time I was in the booth I did not see any and was happy about that, for heavens sake with four projectors and two 306 projectionists in the booth masking changeovers what the heck do they need with a platter. By the way, let me say how wonderfull it is to have you aboard with so much projection knowledge. It was a void that needed desperatly to be filled and I appreciate very much your imput here. I never had the pleasure of working with Ben Olevsky but he was of course a legend in his time, any good stories there?

Digital projection solves a number of problems, especially during the Christmas run where all of the five booth film projectors may be in use in that show. The film projectors are pointed at different areas of the stage depending what "screen" or set piece they are projecting on. Those pieces are struck at the end of the show. When a premiere takes place the house picture sheet comes in electrically, so there is no fly floor crew present to bring in the set pieces to re-set the projectors. I had worked out a way to get the machines back to their positions without having to bring the pieces in, but understandably, and especially with the 3-D sequence, its better not to change the booth projector set up.
The new digital projectors also have the advantage of being much more efficient in terms of light output, since you're not projecting through film, but reflecting from a mirror surface which doesn't buckle or deform from the heat of the lamp. The advantage of the use of two (and these weren't the full sized units which mount on a standard projector base), is that not only do you double the light, but you also have 100% back-up, albeit at half brightness if one fails. (The legend when I was a kid was that the Hall always ran two film prints interlocked for brightness and back-up. I did a couple of premieres that way, but you can't superimpose the imgages because of the difference in projector angle. With digital projectors you can electronically correct keystone, and actually make the legend true.) In addition, since they have a relatively small footprint, the projectors may be located at an almost zero degree angle in the First Mezzanine.
Radio City has been doing video projection for years, even before I started there in 1974, and by the time I left we were doing far more video projection in our concerts and stage presentations than we were film projection. Digital feature presentation is a logical extension of that trend, and it is rapidly getting better.

I have never see digital film but does it have the warmth, luminosity and almost sculptural presence of the best of 35 or 70MM film? I much prefer the sound of 6 track pre Dolby stereo. I once saw a gorgeous print of Swing Time years ago at the Gramercy. One of the most beautiful things I ever saw in my life.

Radio City has long been a try-out house for the film industry, and we must not forget that the studios are eager to implement digital if for no other reason than to forestall counterfeiting of their movies. The hope is to send encrypted movies digitally to cinemas via optical fiber cables, thus eliminating the black market in pirated films, they hope. We can only hope they succeed, else ultimately there will be less product for the screens of fewer theatres.

It's weird that if Radio City is like some kind of petri dish for the film industry, why the hell don't they play movies there? At least the big releases...I know, I know...we've asked this question before...

REndres,Thanks for the education regarding video, I understand the advantages now. However, I am an old man who hates change and will always be a film guy. Humbug to digital projection. It is comforting to know that all five projectors are still alive and well and being used. By the way I also heard about the days when two prints were run interlocked, in the event of a problem, to ensure a break free presentation.

Does anyone know what year the movie Ben Hur played at Radio City? Ben Hur came out around 1958, but I remember seeing it years later at Radio City. Thanks

Ben Hur is being shown on the big screen at the Loews Jersey on March 5th. Didn't Ben Hur premiere at the Loews State?

I would like to see RCM just for a short period of time say two weeks a year to roll back time and give the public the old time bill of fare. A movie, first run or an oldie with the stage show. Of course they would charge expected 2005 prices, but...why not? The show doesn't need to be elaborate but a simple deal with Rocketts, Ballet and a specialty act or two. Wouldn't it be fun to do that?Have the grand old organ play between shows a few numbers.

I would like to see RCM just for a short period of time say two weeks a year to roll back time and give the public the old time bill of fare. A movie, first run or an oldie with the stage show. Of course they would charge expected 2005 prices, but...why not? The show doesn't need to be elaborate but a simple deal with Rocketts, Ballet and a specialty act or two. Wouldn't it be fun to do that?Have the grand old organ play between shows a few numbers.

I would like to see RCM just for a short period of time say two weeks a year to roll back time and give the public the old time bill of fare. A movie, first run or an oldie with the stage show. Of course they would charge expected 2005 prices, but...why not? The show doesn't need to be elaborate but a simple deal with Rocketts, Ballet and a specialty act or two. Wouldn't it be fun to do that?Have the grand old organ play between shows a few numbers.

Yes, "Ben-Hur" premiered at the Loew's State, New York. It is said that the entire theatre was renovated in early 1959 specifically to get it ready for "Ben-Hur." Loews allegely also opened a theatre in Washington,DC, the Columbia. If you check "Variety," magazine, you will see that a number of Cinerama houses opened "BH" in late 1959. DC, Warner; Pittsburgh, Warner; Philly, Boyd. The list goes on.

To “C.Connolloy” and others: Re FILMS AT RCMH: The reason that films are not shown is that rarely can they FILL that many seats with their attendant overhead , by bringing in enough people to fill them to cover the rent of the films. It is a complex subject once one realizes that it is the film studios and their distributors that really control the market and therefore the theatres, indirectly. Since the studios and their henchmen are in the driver’s seat, they can dictate almost any terms they want to the theatres, and the décor, size or prestige of any one theatre are of no moment to them! They exist strictly for profit, and will happily bend any theatre management ‘over the coals’ if they think that they can extract one more penny out of those willing to deal with them. The copyright laws firmly protect them against anyone trying to show their films without signing their detailed agreements whereby the studio controls the type of exhibition, the length of show, the type of show, the sound system employed, the nature and presence of any ads on screen, the sharing of ancillary incomes (mostly refreshments), the nature, scope and type of advertising by the theatre, and whether or not they will allow any one theatre to show a film at all.

The famous Supreme Court ‘Paramount decree’ of 1948 may have busted up the legal vertical integration at the time, but essentially we are now right back were we started, with the studios in full control of the theatres, but with no responsibility to maintain them! For them, it is now the best of all worlds: no responsibility (or expense!) for the exhibition venue, ability to deny titles to anyone, ability to sell and control via exorbitant terms, and no real possibility of losing that control since big business owns the politicians and hence the courts. Some reading in the Archived comments on the FORUMS of the site: www.BigScreenBiz.com will quickly acquaint you with the ever-tightening straight jacket that the movie house owners must now wear. So, don’t blame your local theatres for high ticket prices or silly films or unavailability of a title; it is all the studio’s and distributor’s fault, and Radio City Music Hall is no exception to this sad state of affairs.

The investors as part of the ultimate owner of RCMH expect to get a return on their investment, and they don’t particularly care how they make money, just so they do! If the Hall were to be able to book films requested and it failed to make money for some time, it would be quickly demolished as unprofitable, and the landlord would not bat an eyelash at its demise as they looked for more profitable uses, and the public could not really complain since ‘they failed to FILL the seats continually.’

Jim has just thrown a glass of ice cold water in our face to awaken us to the truth. Many of us know what Jim says is true but just did not want to admit it to ourselves. If we are to have RCMH at all it must be run just the way it is. It's all about the profit.
well..... I'm depressed as hell.

Jim: Boston's largest and most opulent theatre, the Wang Center (formerly Metropolitan/Music Hall), very occasionally shows old films. People love this series. If it can work here, why not at Radio City?

And here's another example of a successful film series in a truly classic old theatre (one of the first to be saved and preserved anywhere): Summer Movie Series at the Ohio Theatre.

Did anyone else attend the Warner Bros festival a few years back? They ran everything from "Casablanca" to "The Exorcist". It was general admission, and I sat in the first mezz each night. I don't know how many people were above me, but the orchestra section appeared full every day. No stage show, but it was still great. Why can't they do that again, perhaps one week a year? I've emailed them more than once, but never got a response.

The last films series at RCMH of Universal classics did sell out business, believe me they made a profit.

We inquired about renting the Hall for a silent film event with live orchestra - just to walk in the door, it was approximately $60,000 a night rental. That did NOT include a stage show (other than 5 minutes of the Rockettes), film costs, or orchestra costs. We would also not get a share of any concessions sold. The Hall was not interested in partnering with us to lower the cost, nor were they willing to negotiate with the various unions to give us a break on their labor. Obviously, an outside party trying to do films at RCMH is impossible. It could never work with a new film - where you're giving up over 75% of your ticket price back to the studio for the two weeks where the film might actually do business - but even with classics you have to give back over 35%.

Pete Apruzzese
Director of Film Programming
Big Screen Classics at the Lafayette Theatre

But excuse me or am I totally naive to think that the Music Hall gets some sort of concession from the city of New York as an historical monument. That there are tax breaks or concessions just like the Metropolitan Opera or the Museum of Natural History. Is the the staff that runs the Music Hall totally and completely financially independent or does it have some sort of responsibilty to the city of New York and the building itself? If the New York Preservation committee has any clout whatsoever(and in this city I wonder) they should be involved in the maintenance of the Hall and its significance concerning New York's cultural history. I'm sure that when the Metropolitan Opera House was dark in January nobody was forcing them to present Dora the Explorer to make extra money which they easily cound have to defray city contributions to their institution. Why should the city give any money to Lincoln Center? They should be holding hip hop or rock concerts if there are any dark nights in Avery Fisher or the State Theater as well.
Why does a New York institution like the Rockettes only appear once a year when they and their home still exist? Why aren't people asking the right questions?

I'd like to second what R.H. and RobertR said about the classics series shown at Radio City in the '90s: some of those shows I attended (Psycho, Jaws, The Exorcist, My Fair Lady) looked like complete sellouts to me. There was a struggle to find seats, even down near the front. I'm sure if the Hall did what Valencia suggested (old time movie/stage show combination with the Rockettes) and charged 2004 Christmas Show prices for it, they'd sell out the house for sure. I know I'd go, along with every New Yorker who posts on Cinema Treasures.

Does anyone know why the 'annual' classic film series ended? It sounded like a nice concept -- each year, present the hits of a different studio.

Ron: I was wondering about that myself. When the WB series began, it was advertised as the First Annual Classic Film Festival. One year later the Universal series was the Second Annual, then it just died. I figured they'd get to RKO eventually, and then I'd fulfill a longtime dream of seeing "King Kong" at Radio City.

I saw Casablanca at that film series, and I remember that the picture seemed out of focus and the sound was terrible! If I didn't already know most of Casablanca's dialog by heart, I would have wondered what all the fuss was about.

On the other hand, I saw the restored "A Star is Born" here and only remember how fantastic it was, if a bit long.

It is nice that vintage films and even variety acts are working at some places as the commenters above relate, but it is naïve to believe that such policies will work everywhere, especially in New York City, probably the most money-oriented place in the nation, if not the world. The song is true that ‘if it will play there, it will play anywhere’ in so far as one may mean survive there. New York City has many theatres only because it has a huge and dense population to support them, but at the same time, theatre managements that can rightly expect much greater profits in that locale. In reality, sub-run or film festival theatres are failing all across the nation and the studios don’t care because they now make more money on foreign distribution and DVDs than on traditional film distribution. We can keep our heads in the sand and pine for the olden days, but they will not return; technology as much as the changes in urban life is quickly making the cinema building obsolete, and with so many choices in entertainment, only a few of our beloved theatres/cinemas will survive into the next generation, largely as dinner theatres or the like. Yes, every theatre/cinema can have a vintage film festival at times, but very few of them can count on them to survive, least of all the behemoth of RCMH. By all means, let’s continue to celebrate the memory of this great venue, but don’t lets be silly in proposing desperate methods to possibly help the theatre; the owners couldn’t care less about our sentiments. And the city is not likely to take on the enormous expense of owning the structure or even contributing tax dollars to it. Theatres are among the most expensive of buildings to maintain, and therefore I am sure that if a referendum were to be held asking taxpayers if they want the city to buy the building by paying the owners probably upward of 200 million dollars for the structure and land, as well as probably a half million yearly for upkeep, and you will see one of the quickest defeats of a referendum in history. People love to be nostalgic, but NOT with their pocketbooks!

Jim Rankin is, of course, correct.

The New York Times ran an article a few weeks ago that stated that over 60% of a films gross earnings is achieved through DVD sales along. Only 20% is aquired through it's theatrical release. The studios see a film's theatrical release now as a mere platform to advertise the film for DVD. Just look how quickly "The Incredibles" is coming out on DVD (in March)! The big reason for the shift is because more people now buy DVDs to own rather than rent them like they did in the now good-old-days of VHS rentals. The fact that the studios now make the bulk of the money off of DVD sales is kept pretty much a secret because it's part of their home entertainment divisions. The stars and writers do not get much of a percentage from it. Yet.

The big question is (they say...) will the trend of people buying DVD movies continue? The Times article stated that already DVD sales a slowing. People are waking up and realizing that they're accumulating these huge libraries of movies they never watch (or may never want to). If that happens, maybe, just maybe, we might see a return to better theatrical releases. But is the damage done?

I'm not very into buying DVDs. I have maybe 20 or so but they're strictly films that I love with my heart and have watched over and over again like "Citizen Kane", "Dr. Strangelove" etc. I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would waste money buying a DVD of, say, "The Grudge" or "I, Robot".

Sorry...I know this is not the place to put all this down but it does follow the basic theme that's been written over the past few days.

I feel I must add a comment, since I was Head Projectionist at the Hall during the last days of the movie/stage show policy, and through the mentioned W.B. and Universal Film Festivals. Perhaps from the start, Radio City was too big for movies even in the 40's. Roxy intended the Hall to do big stage presentations, and the New Roxy/Center theatre with little more than half the seats to do what the Hall eventually did. I once had a Vice President at the Hall from the "good old days" tell me that perhaps they should have converted the Hall into office space and saved the Center, as it was even then better sized for film presentations. I can remember days in the time before we changed policy in 1979 when no one would give us a film. I was told the only reason we got "Caravans" for our last Christmas Show in the old policy was through the kindess of Universal Pictures which picked up distribution so we would have a picture.
Now the situation is even more difficult with audiences used to every picture opening at the same time at a multiplex near them, and hundereds of channels of TV and DVDs in competiton for their attention.
Film at the Hall only works when it becomes an "event". When that happens the results are amazing! "Lion King" with a Disney produced stage show opened in just two theatres, the Hall and the El Capitan, and made it into the week's top ten earners at the box office tied with "Beverly Hills Cop III" on over a thousand screens. "Napoleon" with an orchestra and the triptych run on three screens, made it into the top ten the week it opened with just four screenings at the Hall. "The Magic of Lassie" had lines around the block, but it also had a stage show which featured the "real" Lassie. On the other hand, Universal gave us "Smokey and the Bandit" and (predictably) it did poorly -- its just not a Manhattan kind of film. What hurt us was that distributors could say, "You had the #2 grossing film in the country that year and it died!"
I'm not absolutely sure, but to my recollection neither the W.B. nor Universal Festivals sold the house out. I don't remember seeing many if any people in the third mezzanine under the booth, and I'm not sure the 2nd Mezzanine was open either. (By the way, the W.B. prints were what were generally available, thus explaining the slightly beat up "Casablanca". "The Exorcist" and "My Fair Lady" both in 70mm came from an outside W.B. source and were really beat up. The Universal prints were new, and after we ran them became archival prints and aren't available for other screenings.) Jim Rankin's comments above are right on. Audiences have changed both with the times and the technology.

Some good comments are made in the above posts but I still have to say a classic film series at RCMH can make a profit. As a regular thing, no the expenses are way too high. As a festival for a few shows with the right films you can do a decent gross. The thing is the work involved equals a small profit compared to the returns of a sold out concert. But, if the halls sitting empty a few hundred thousand is still nice pocket change. There is so much sentimentality attached to the hall, it is different from seeing a classic film series at the Zeigfeld. I saw the screenings of Jaws and Psycho and can attest they were virtually sold out. No matter what percentage Universal took that night the hall made a nice profit on 6000 tickets, not to mention the concession.

About the beat up print of The Exorcist REndres told us about: there was a splice during an early scene with Linda Blair and Ellen Burstyn, creating a jump cut where Linda Blair seemed to teleport across the room from one place to another. It got a huge laugh from the patrons in the Hall.

I never knew "The Exorcist" played as a revival at the Hall. The former management must've been spinning in their graves.

CConnolly-William Friedkin attended the showing and said as much from the stage.

I was at the Hall for the My Fair Lady Saturday matinee and in the orchestra and I can tell you it was far from full.

Again does Cablevision receive any kind of city concessions? And if so why shouldn't it be responsible to Hall's history and that of the city. What it presents now is as if the Museum of Natural History were only to display ant farms. They've got the greatest theater in the world and they use it with less imagination than somebody with a shoebox.
The hell with a west side stadium. Obviously the city is choking on money it forces the taxpayers to keep coughing up. If the city says it doesn't have it where do they get all their money for corporate welfare?(Yeah I know they provide jobs. Well I'd like to get those Rockettes working more than once a year and the out of work ballet dancers and musicians too.)

Before "The Exorcist" started that night, Friedkin told a great story relating to what CConnolly and R.H. said: in 1973 he and writer/producer William Peter Blatty were editing the film at Warner Bros' editing facility at 666(!) Fifth Avenue. They took a break for food at a nearby deli, and passed Radio City. Friedkin said to Blatty, "Well, there's one theater our movie will never play!"

If you want to fill up the Music Hall, you've got to put the right film in there.

I can imagine "The Exorcist" packing the place. It's debatable whether the film is a classic or not but it's undeniably popular. Put "Pulp Fiction" or (even better) both "Kill Bill" films and, VOILA...a packed house GUARANTEED. (Again, the artistic merits of "Kill Bill" is highly debatable...I'm not talking about films that are good. Just films that will sell out the Hall.)

As fine as "My Fair Lady" is, to the present generation, (please forgive me...!) it's a dinosaur. You'll pull in some older folks, film lovers and maybe some "youngsters" who appreciate it but anyone else? No. Sad but true. Ditto for virutally any of the musicals starting in '65 with "Sound of Music" and going backwards.

Here's a very troublesome story about the new film director Spike Jonze. He directed "Being John Malcovich" and "Adaptation." The quote is from a review of the book "Rebels on the Backlot" by Susan Waxman from Salon.com:
"Waxman reports that one day on the set of "Being John Malkovich" director Jonze took Malkovich aside to tell him he was overacting a scene. "I was getting a little Blanche there, wasn't I?" the star agreed. Jonze looked puzzled. "Blanche Dubois," responded Malkovich. "Tennessee Williams? 'A Streetcar Named Desire'? Blanche Dubois?" Jonze could only shrug; he had no idea what Malkovich was talking about. "What did you get me into?" Malkovich moaned to producer Steve Golin, who could only respond, "At least it won't be derivative."

Get it? Spike Jonze's film references only go back as far as "Star Wars". Sadly a lot of my peers and younger just don't "get" classic film. If they have ANY film references at all, they go only as far back as the late 60's for "Bonnie & Clyde".

So, to fill up the Music Hall, you won't do it with the classic films. There's simply not enough of an audience for them. You COULD fill it up with contemporary or semi-contemporary films that could supplement the classics.

Gee I don't know, CConnolly ... "Psycho" (1960) filled the entire orchestra section of the hall - thousands of seats, and on a weeknight yet! - while when I saw both "Kill Bill" movies on first run they each played to half empty theaters. But you can't go by me - I'd go see any movie that played the Music Hall.

Well now that Cablevision is presenting Dora and basketball and people are gunning for a Tarantino festival maybe overpriced condos aren't such a bad idea.
Better dead than red.

In January, 1966, with Sophia Loren's "Judith" on screen, RCMH advertising boasted of 5,000 general admission seats at 99 cents to noon, $1.30 to 5PM, and $1.75 evenings and all day Friday-Sunday & holidays. Prices for reserved seats were unmentioned, but probably about $1 more.

Regarding films playing at RCMH.

First off, the "Kill Bill" films were a bad choice on my part. They're not that good and they did not do as well as Miramax thought.

Of course there are the enduring classics that are standards. "Psycho" being one of them along with others (everyone will have their own list so I won't go there now...)

What I'm trying to say is very simple: if the film is big enough, anticipated enough and it played even for short time at the Hall, people will come and the place would sell out. I think the days of RCMH being a movie showplace all the time are done. But a limited run of a big movie? Oh, yes indeed it would sell out.

Think of the next "Harry Potter" movie there. Or the next (awful) "Star Wars" installment? The line would be around the block.

I agree with CConnolly. In 1989 "The Abyss" was shown at the Music Hall for one night only prior to its official opening day (in 70mm I think), and the place was packed. And didn't Bob Furmanek say he saw the latest Harry Potter movie there last year? Was that open to the public or was it an invitation-only event?

I personally am not a huge fan of the Star Wars films but a 70mm festival would insure sell-out crowds. I would love to see the great epics that cant be watched properly on television like Ben Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, Cleopatra and even Titanic.

When you say "sell-out crowds," do you mean for single performances of those movies or engagements of entire weeks? I honestly don't believe, for example, that "Star Wars,' shown four times a day, or 28 times in a week, would draw flies after one or two days.

What about what we talked about years ago. Classic films(no Excorcist, Abyss, Kill Bill, we want family friendly films here ) changing once a week with a great stage show during the summer. I'm talking about the Rockettes and symphony and ballet. Include great special effects like the burning of Nome, a Jules Verne trip to outerspace or the great ballets like Bolero or the Undersea. With the Media make it an historic event. Yeah I know it will cost a ton of money but like I've said a million times you'll be employing a lot of people. If Lincoln Center can pay the fees of overpaid 3rd rate classical artists(I won't get started) the city can find some money for one of its greatest institutions. Yeah and I'll hold up the Rockettes anyday to what passes for art on the stages at 64th St. And what about corporate sponsorship? What tax breaks is Cablevision getting? Where did Christo(and I like his work) get 26 million for his 70's orange shower curtains? The possibilities are endless.
Films by themselves are not going to work and neither are stage shows alone.
The city should prosecute Cablevision executives for crimes against the cultural heritage of New York.

I believe in the film, "The Godfather", the marquee of the Radio City Music Hall shows the film "The Bells of St. Mary's" as being screened at the theatre. Did this film really show there or is it just fiction? Who would have a listing of way back in 1945 when the film was released? I'd love to know the first-ever film to be shown at this great theatre.I'm really curious.

Hey Myron, Welcome to the club. The answers to all your questions are on this this site and this location. Please take the time (well spent) and start at the top, take notes, memorize all the data and get an education. To make life a bit easier for you, "The Bells..." was the Hall's Christmas film in 1945.

Warren
When I mentioned the Star Wars films in 70mm I was thinking a day each. I agree it would never play a week, although maybe a triple 70mm show would last a whole week. I can imagine the lines at prime shows would be crazy because there would be almost no turnover.

Thanks,I found some lists here of films but I can't locate the "Bells" listed but I take Simon's word. I could only find partial lists. An entire list would be out-of-the question? I was wondering what the first ever film shown was at the RCMH. I think the first I saw there was "The Band Wagon". I also saw many Disney and Audrey Hepburn films there,too in later years

The first tilm to play the Hall was "The Bitter Tea of General Yen" with Barbara Stanwyck, directed by Frank Capra. When I worked at the Hall I had friends in the Publicity Department who gave me the "official" mimeographed (in those days) list of all the films that played the Hall, their play dates and a brief description of the stage show that accompanied the film. It also had a year-end listing of the number of films that came from each studio. I updated the list with the films that played after the policy change in 1979, until I left in 2000. I have the list somewhere at home. When I get a chance I'll see what it has to say about "Bells".

Some of the recent posts brought back some RCMH memories, so here's my $0.02:

I saw three films in the WB film festival that played RCMH in the fall of 1996: "My Fair Lady" (print was of disappointing quality, there were audio problems and the house was far from full); "Bonnie and Clyde" (largely full house) and "The Exorcist" (close to, if not a complete sellout, and I remember Ellen Burstyn jokingly telling the audience that they were "crazy" to sit through the film again).

The only film I saw at RCMH during the film/stage show era was "Smokey and the Bandit" in the spring of 1977. A weekday matinee; there probably weren't more than 100 patrons.

If Cablevision and the film studios could ever agree on terms for short term exclusive runs of new films at RCMH, there certainly are films that would draw huge crowds to RCMH. The upcoming film version of the musical "The Producers" would likely be a smash hit at RCMH.

For anybody who thinks film can make money at the Music Hall, didn't you read Pete Apruzzese's post from Feb. 14?

With those outrageous fees, it's simply not going to happen.

"The Bells of St. Mary's" was the Christmas 1945 movie at RCMH. Its predecessor, "Going My Way," in which Bing Crosby portrayed the same priestly character, had its New York premiere engagement at the Paramount Theatre.

It's nice that the Godfather got that right. Annie has Camille playing at the Hall whereas the musical Words and Music gets it right having it play at the Capitol(though I'm not sure if in reality Camille played there with a stage show as the film has it.)

It's nice that the Godfather got that right. Annie has Camille playing at the Hall whereas the musical Words and Music gets it right having it play at the Capitol(though I'm not sure if in reality Camille played there with a stage show as the film has it.)

By the way are Pacino and Keaton going into the Hall or coming out when they see the news of Michael's father being shot? If it is before do they still go to see the Christmas show anyway? It sounds like it would have been a terrific one.

Vincent: as a self described "Godfather" junkie, I can tell you that Pacino and Keaton are coming out of the Hall because Keaton says Pacino "would love me more if I was Ingrid Bergman?" Then she sees the headline saying that Vito Corleone was shot.

Well I'm glad they saw it without any distractions though they probably had to cancel their plans for Schrafts. Now was Coppola's father in reality playing in the Hall symphony at this time? When I was working at the Hall they had signs up back stage for St Mary's which had been used in the Godfather.

REndres posting brings to mind the names Russell Market and Leon Leonidorff(forgive my spelling). I believe they had roles in the live presentations at the RCMH. They are probably both gone now.A list of all the Music Hall films would be awesome; especially if they had dates. Seldom did we miss an Easter or Christmas showing. Such a list would bring my childhood memories back. As a kid, I never attended sporting events; just went to the movies in Manhattan. A trip to the Music Hall or Roxy was a big deal to me in those days. Now, seeing a movie on a small screen in a cineplex with no curtains on a small screen cannot be compared to the experience at the movie palaces!

If the the Music Hall did a film festival like some of the above posts. What do you think would be a fair admission price per show?

1) Film only format

2) Film with stage show

Does anyone remember the RCMH fire curtain that used to be in place when the doors opened? It then majestically rose and disappeared into the flies about 15 minutes before show time. As I recall it had a bronze color to it.

To reply to William's question. A fair admission price for a film only format would be $12.00. For a film and stage show $20.00 general admission and $22.50 for the first mezzanine.

Reminder to everyone in the New York area...tomorrow's 3PM organ concert on the RCMH's mighty Wurlitzer. Further details at www.nytos.com

$12.00 for RCMH? No way. Movie ticket prices for an average movie theater in Manhattan are about $10.00. I think for the priviledge of seeing a movie at the Hall + the needs of the management for upkeep, they would at least charge $15, possibly $18 or $20. Would this scare people off? Yep. But, like I've said before, IF and only IF the movie is a true "Event", you will find people willing and ready to shell out that amount. Who would've thought people would pay $10? Hell, my Mom was shocked when the top ticket price went up to $4 at the Lynbrook in 1977 to see "Rocky" there (one of my most memorable film experiences in that grand old theater...packed with people screaming their lungs out at the end!...now that's what I miss about movie going!)

"Fair" to the public or to management? I don't think the management would charge a price less than what it costs them to put on the program plus something of a profit. And I doubt that they can do that at RCMH for much less than $25 for movies and $75 for a movie with stage show. But the whole idea of reviving such programs at RCMH is preposterous in today's economy. Do you realize what it would cost just to produce a stage show for each program change? It would be tantamount to producing a Broadway musical every two weeks or whatever. At present, RCMH is putting on one stage show per year and uses the same sets, costumes, etcetera over and over for as long as possible.

In Boston, the Wang Center's occasional films are free. They are shown on Mondays when the house would otherwise be dark.

In Columbus, the Ohio Theatre's summer film series has a $3.50 admission. Here is last summer's schedule.

I consider these to be comparable to Radio City -- in each case, they are the most ornate and largest theatres in their cities, which once showed movies all the time but now do so only on rare occasions. All of them have organs, too.

Erwin's link for the organ concert is not correct. It should be www.nytos.org

Ron...Thanks for the correction.

The Ohio Theatre (CAPA) and the Wang Center are both non-profit organizations - they survive through donations, public monies, and tickets sales, as well as volunteer staffing. The RCMH is not, I believe, a non-profit organization. There isn't any public money available for them, nor would volunteers be allowed to work due to union regulations.

The facility operations are no way comparable.

The Radio City Music Hall should be a public institution like any other great New York landmark. It should not be holding basketball games or religious fundamentalist pageants to make money. With corporate and city funds a summer show based on Markert and Leonidoff is not impossible. If the Hall had survived solely on commercial considerations it would have closed up shop in '55. After that it was the Rockefellers who propped it up.

The main problem is the company Cablevision who are the operators of the Music Hall and Madison Square Garden, their cable company and former operators of the WIZ stores in New York.

So - did anybody else from here go to the organ concert Saturday afternoon? I thought the event went pretty well - it looked like around 100-150 people attended.

Yes Peter, I was there too. It was great to hear the organ again after the last time which was a Xmas Spectacular about ten years ago prior to the restoration. I thought it went quite well also and look forward to the next one. I estimated attendance close to 200, which was rather good for an event on such short notice. However, I think that the current owners of RCMH could have used a little more showmanship by providing a PA system, lowering the contour curtain and splurging for the amber house lights. I do understand that this would have probably negated the cost effectiveness of the event, but it certainly would have been nice to capture the ambience of
the "olden days".

I think your estimate is probably correct - I didn't think to take a closer count prior to the playing.

To lower the curtain would have cost NYTOS close to $4000 - the union demanded 4 stagehands for 8 hours at overtime rate to press 4 buttons. To have a PA system would have cost another couple thousand - the union demanded at least one electrician and a soundman for 8 hours at overtime rate. Same goes for the lights. The Hall would not absorb these costs nor tell the union to get lost - which they should do immediately.

Peter...Thanks for the clarification of costs. Figured as much, but did not realize that the costs would be so astronomical... Thank you NYTOS for a great show.

Um, I wouldn't tell any union member to get lost. I'd chip away at the CEOs and smarmy management honchos who pull in much bigger bucks than any union member could imagine, for doing much less with no loss to fingers or thumbs. The RCMH audience in the '30s through '60s was largely union affiliated, and better off because of it.

That's probably true for that time, Bill. But don't you think those figures I quoted above for this weekend's event are just *slightly* ridiculous?

It's time for the unions to work *with* the management of these venues. Show business is a seven-day-a-week operation, I don't understand their position of "overtime" for a Saturday afternoon on a week when they had maybe one other event. And it's time for the management to reduce *their* overhead as well - many do earn some outrageous numbers not always tied to profits, I'd love to see bonuses reduced/eliminated if a venue is running at a loss (as the MH does every single year). There's plenty of room on both sides to make these things work. My point was strictly about that one event, not the entirety of the operation.

A couple of notes: "The Bells of St. Mary's" was the 1945 Christmas Show, but ran for nine weeks, starting 12/6/45 and ending 2/6/46. The stage show was "The Nativity" and "Heigh Ho!" produced by Leon Leonidoff, for four weeks and just "Heigh Ho!" for the remaining five weeks of the run. While in the twenty-two years of the Hall's life, 109 out of 348 films were from RKO, "Bells" was the only RKO film played in 1945.
The fire curtain referred to in an earlier e-mail is (or was when I was there) asbestos. It is in two huge sections that completely seal off the 60' x 100' proscenium opening. It was brought in every morning before the first show and evening after the last show by motor in the movie/stage show days. Far more dramatic however, is when it is cut loose in a "fire drop". Then the curtain comes hurtling at the stage with a roar in free fall until a short distance above the deck when hydraulic pistons hit fluid which slows it to a stop. Nothing is supposed to be placed on the fire curtain line which is marked on the deck with brads. Rumor has it that one person did leave his briefcase on the line just before a test drop and it was crushed! The curtain was tested in free fall mode before every concert load-in, and the test was dramatic enough that everything stopped on stage (for safety reasons)and everyone watched. When we did the 50th Anniversary show, it started with the curtain down, and the 50th Anniversary logo projected on it from a loop of 35mm film in the booth.

REndres, I remember the fire curtain very well. As one of the last patrons to leave I watched it slowly decend and then immediately go back up. I remenber thinking what the heck was that? I asked a staff member and was told it was a fire department regulation to test the curtain twice a day. Sorry I did not get to see the "fire drop". Once again, you have brought back great memories of RCMH.

The Music Hall started wide-screen presentations with "Shane," which opened (with stage show) on April 23, 1953, with an image measuring 50 feet wide by 30 feet high, according to NYT critic Bosley Crowther. In his favorable review of the movie itself, Crowther noted that "The difference is barely apparent, except that some scenes appear trimmed at the bottom and top. The greater size seems quite appropriate and unexceptional in the expanse of the Music Hall." "Young Bess" followed "Shane" on May 21st, but it wasn't until January, 1954, that RCMH showed its first movie that was actually photographed in a wide-screen process, the CinemaScoped "Knights of the Round Table."

Warren: The nice thing about the presentation of "Shane" at the Music Hall was that the opening credits appeared on the regular size screen before the screen widened. This was an impressive effect. It's too bad all the subsequent wide-screen and Cinemascope films weren't presented that way as it helped to create a sense of awe as the screen widened.

Radio City is not the tourist attraction it once was because the Rockettes and stage show are used only once a year. When people would visit New York City, Broadway and Radio City was one of there stops. Its sad Radio City is a shadow of its former self even though the theatre has been restored. What made Radio City famous in the first place is used only at Christmas. It is to bad the Disney Corporation didn't buy Radio City becuase they at least would have shown a little showmanship that is sadly missing with Cablevision. Radio City could have showcased Disney films with stage shows featuring the Rockettes like they do with the El Capitan in Hollywood but on a much bigger scale. When the theatre was dark from the Disney fare the theatre could hold concerts and special events.Cablevision has not been in good financial shape so they are following a very safe but boring policy at Radio City.brucec

Between "Shane" and "Kiss Me Kate," RCMH simply used its old Magnascope screen, framed at the standard but by-then unfashionable ratio of 1.33. When RCMH introduced a wider frame on an evidently new screen for its Christmas '53 show (the anemic "Easy to Love," preceding the CinemaScope "Knights"), you could see black lines on its surface where its horizontal panels has been sewn together.
I know I've complained about this before (above, on 21 July '04 and 1 Sept '04), but as a pint-sized nut about film projection, I was enraged by what had been happening at that theater. Humpf.

RCMH continued for several years afterward to show its newsreels and announcements-of-next-attraction on its older-size screen, and that was a nice, nostalgic touch.

Bill, it must then cause you much pain to see what the theatre owners are doing to aspect ratios in todays movies house boxes.
I have seen some real nightmares out there.

Question for BoxOfficeBill: Other than going to the library to view Variety's grosses through the years on microfilm, is there a web archive or site that offers that data? I know that Variety's own site does not offer that even to subscribers.

One of the most enduring myths about widescreen/stereo sound presentation is that the horrid curses of mono sound and incorrect aspect ratios are something new. Not so. As early as December 1953, scarcely 3 months after The Robe premiered, some chains, notably Walter Reade, Jr. steadfastly refused to install stereo screen speakers or surrounds. Reade, in particular, used a "mixer" which mixed the output from the 4 mag tracks into one single signal which went on its way to the one single loudspeaker with no one being any wiser. Likewise, I distinctly remember as far back as 1954 being in a major theatre (Philadelphia, Stanton) with that god-awful "constant width" masking which rendered the anamorphic image actually smaller than the pre-Scope screen. Bad showmanship has been around for decades!

SimonL-- I know of no web archive or site that offers Variety's grosses, much less its reviews, articles, and other data.

Variety.com charges an annual subscription rate of $259 for access to its on-line archives-- whew, no thanks, can't go there.

The NY Times on-line archive charges $2.95 per article (or a reduced bulk rate of $25.95 for twenty-five articles)-- um, no thanks, unless perhaps the article mentions me by name and I'm feeling vain enough to want it. You can get free previews of the first few lines of many articles. But I find that its key-word cataloguing is spotty.

So, for me (for now) archival work in a good library is the only possibility. Microfilms aren't all that awkward to use, are they?

For rapid reference to release dates in NYC, I use the NY Times Directory of the Film (up to 1969), and then the NY Times Film Reviews (through 1982), and then Variety Film Reviews (1983-86). From there, I track down the specifics in relevant issues of the NY Times, Variety, or NY Herald Tribune (to its demise in '67).

Like the rest of us, I enjoy thumbing through "Marquee." And I also like the journal "Theatre Catalog" (note the idiosyncratic spelling for this American publication!), which is chock full of data about projection, exhibition, and theater design, with swell pictures of the real stuff up to the mid-1960s.

veyoung-- what an awful thing, that "constant width" that you mention. I never heard of it, but the words send a knife through me. At least RCMH never contemplated going that route, did it?

Re: accessing old issues of the "New York Times" for info on movies and movie theaters

Until a few weeks ago, I didn't realize that there is something much, much better than either a) the online archive of the "New York Times" or b) microfilm/microfiche. Apparently university libraries subscribe to online database services which allow the user to not only search a publication like the "New York Times" using keywords in a search engine, but also allow the user to view a) an online photograph (a pdf file?) of the article and/or b) an online photograph of the entire page of the newspaper (including the advertisements).

The first time I ever used such an online database was to look up the article that Warren mentioned in his Feb 6th post on Radio City Music Hall's underground box office. By typing in "Radio City Music Hall" and specifying the date of the article (12/18/40), I was able to access a photograph of the the original article within seconds! (You can also specific a date range, rather than just a specific date.) If you select "page view," you get to see not only the article itself, but the advertisements surrounding them.

I've since used the database to look up articles and advertisements about the Loew's "Wonder" Theaters (was able to view the advertisements that listed the "Wonder" theaters, what they were showing and the show times); the original "Lindy's" restaurant (which, apparently, was next door to the Rivoli); the theater where the original production of the Broadway musical "Gypsy" opened (it was the Broadway, which had been a movie theater, the B.S. Moss Colony); etc.

I assume all university libraries subscribe to this database, called "Proquest," but don't know if public research libraries, like the research division of the New York Public Library, do also -- but would imagine that they do. (If they do, I suspect you have to access them at the actual library -- not over the internet.)

It's still not clear to me what a database company like "Proquest" does/is, but this is the tentative understanding I got after speaking to the librarian (and another one, later):

A company, like "Proquest," contracts with a publication, like the "Times," to photograph all of its issues between certain dates. ("Proquest" has the rights to issues of the "Times" between 1851 and 2001.) I think the company then photographs (pdf?) all the pages that have been published between those dates -- or maybe they use existing microfiche?). The company develops software that allows a computer to search through the images for certain words in headlines or text. The company provides this package to libraries for a certain fee.

All in all, it sounds like an amazing undertaking and a wonderful service. (I'm just guessing that this is the way it is set-up, but would be interested in hearing the true story from anyone who knows.)

(Don't know how many other publications are accessible this way, but "Proquest" also offers historical database searches for the "Chicago Tribune," the "Los Angeles Times" and the "Washington Post.")

- - - - -

P.S. -- Although I'd seen these databases mentioned before, I had no idea what they were. I guess I thought that they were electronic equivalents of the old "Readers' Guide to Periodical Literature" -- I didn't think that you could also access the articles themselves (and the advertisements around them). A few weeks ago, a librarian gave me a more detailed look at what they could do when I mentioned that I was trying to find out the prices for things like movies in years gone by. He suggested the "Proquest" database as a way of indirectly accessing the advertisements in old issues of the "New York Times" (first you access an article on the entertainment page, and then you select page view to see the ads surrounding it).

Actually, it hasn't been that helpful for my original purpose (the ads don't seem to mention prices as much as I thought they would), but it seems to me to be a tremendous research resource nevertheless.

Benjamin-- Yes, it works.

I went to a university on-line catalogue, then to databases, then to ProQuest Historical Newspapers, then to a hypothetical article based on the release date of a film, then to its review by Crowther, then to full page.

It's a shame, though, that we can't access contiguous pages to gather further ads printed on them. Still, it gives us at least a page from the past sans microfilm. I would never have thought of the clever tip you provided. Thanks for sharing it.

Whoa-- I take back that comment about accessing previous pages on ProQuest Historical Newspapers: you can do that, and you can access subsequent pages as well. There's a button at the top of the Page Image that allows you to range through the entire issue. This is great. Thanks again, Benjamin.

Links, please!

Many branches of the New York Public Library have computer access to the New York Times back issues. Librarians have also told me that card holders will eventually be able to access the NYT at home through the NYPL's website.

Yes, this database is sensational. If you have on-line access to a research library collection, it's terrific.

Some institutions allow library membership privileges for a fee that may well be worthwhile for access to the rest of the collection. And when Stanford, NYPL, and other institutions collaborate for complete on-line access to all their non-copyrighted collections, we'll all have a blast. Meanwhile, I enjoy fingering hard-copy library materials. At my library, back issues of Variety are still the original paper product.

Meanwhile, what's this got to do with RCMH? At midnight last night when I tested out ProQuest on line, I looked up the review of "Shane" at RCMH on 24 April '53 (it's already reprinted in the "NYT Directory of Film" and in the paperback "NYT Guide to the Best 1,000 Movies Ever Made," ed. Vincent Canby and Janet Maslin). It includes a notice of the stage show, "a musical review in a Latin mood," excised from the above. I printed out the page (you can do that, too, though you'll need a magnifying glass to read it: the one that comes with the OED Dictionary works just fine). There's a notice next to the stage listings (Danny Kaye at the Palace, Patricia Neal and Kim Hunter in "The Children's Hour" at the Coronet) that Jascha Heifetz was recovering from an attack "on the right hand by a youth wielding an iron bar. The attack apparently was made because of Mr. Heifetz's insistence on playing German music, despite threats." Life imitates art?

When "Shane" reached the Loew's neighborhood circuit in July, it had Republic's "The Lady Wants Mink" (in glorious Trucolor!) as second feature. Curiously, "Shane" arrived at Loew's one week AFTER "Young Bess," which had followed "Shane" at RCMH. Loew's coupled "Young Bess" with Universal's "Column South," an Audie Murphy western set during the Civil War.

Warren, I believe the faster release of "Young Bess" was prompted by the current interest in the coronation of the Queen as seen with the great success of "A Queen is Crowned" documentary.

Right-- As for "Shane," I believe that it had been finished early in '52, a full year before its release. If it could sit in the cans that long before being shown, it could surely wait a few weeks before jumping into the neighborhood circuit.

Odder delays occurred. "The Glass Menagerie" opened at RCMH in Sept '50, but took until mid-Feb '51 to reach the Loew's circuit. At that, it received second billing to a Van Johnson-Kathryn Grayson frolic, "Grounds for Marriage." Oddly too, "Menagerie" was released by Warner Bros, whose product always went to the RKO nabes. Were the circuits experimenting with distribution in the wake of the studio breakup decision? Or was "Menagerie" perceived as a huge flop? Gertrude Lawrence, where are you when we need you?

"Ivanhoe" opened at RCMH in August '52, but did not reach the Loew's neighborhood chain until Easter '53. Did RCMH have such pre-release privileges? Was Loew's trying to build anticipation for its expensive wares? Was the picture thought to be disappointing, so that by holding it back people might forget the tepid reviews? "Ivanhoe" played at RCMH for eight peak weeks in '52 (31 July-24 Sept, and kids like me loved it: there could have been worse ways to be introduced to the twelfth century.

Also in '52, "The Greatest Show on Earth" opened early at RCMH (10 Jan), but didn't reach the Loew's nabes until mid-August. Admittedly, it ran for eleven weeks after opening, but an interval of more than four months seems a bit long for its wider circulation. '52 was a dismal, often wild-card year for Hollywood films, as Warren has remarked elsewhere. But it's fascinating to study for that very reason.

In 1950-51, Warner Brothers and RKO Theatres had a dispute over their longterm alliance in the Greater New York area, and WB threatened to end it by making a deal with Loew's for its next group of releases. "The Glass Menagerie" was one of those movies, plus "The West Point Story" and several other titles that I can't recall at the moment. Then WB and RKO reconciled, and resumed their relationship.

Sometimes a major hit was slow in reaching the Greater New York neighborhoods because the distributor insisted on a prime-time booking such as a holiday week or the summer vacation period. Also, after the movie finished its Broadway-Times Square run, it played an exclusive in downtown Brooklyn, and that could last a month or even longer if it did profitable business.

Look at the opening day ads for the Music Hall during the late 1940s and 1950s and you'll see at the bottom: Special Pre-release engagement. Getting a Music Hall date was so prestigious that many films would get booked there well before their carefully scheduled general release. The major Christmas release would often play the Hall in October such as "An American in Paris," "White Christmas."

This seems to have been the case until the mid 60's when road show fever took over. Fall '61 had Flower Drum Song, '62 had Gypsy and '64 had Mary Poppins. From this point on except for Bullitt the autumn bookings were pretty poor. The summer bookings held up though until 71 when what once was one of the most profitable times of the year became a wasteland.

The Christmas show of 1952 opened on December 4th with Esther Williams' "Million Dollar Mermaid" on screen, along with a Disney cartoon, "Pluto's Christmas Tree." The booking was followed on January 15, 1953 by MGM's "The Bad and the Beautiful" and a stage show that included a finale featuring "Dancing Waters," the fountain system that squirted water in all sorts of formations under colored lights. This might have been its debut at RCMH. I'm not sure.

Does anyone know if I'll See You in My Dreams was in color. I remember seeing it a long time ago on TV and thinking that it was a really good choice for a Christmas film except for the fact that it was in B and W but I might have seen it on a black and white TV. It seems odd that the Hall which only had shown color films for Christmas since '46 would then in 51 pick a black and white one. The black and white '61 Easter show was even more surprising. Though in and of themselves the films were good choices they both would have been better if they had been filmed in color and considering when they were made the choice to save money on color seems pretty strange(though in the case of Professor this might have been due to the special effects.)

"I'll See You in My Dreams" was definitely in B&W, but I don't know why. But perhaps it was produced on a tight budget, or WB could get only so many Technicolor licenses that year.

"Showplace of the Nation" apparently originated as a descriptive for Rockefeller Center, and not for RCMH. It can be found in the joint advertising for RCMH and the New Roxy when they first opened, but attached to neither theatre. In the center of the ads, it says Rockefeller Center, and directly under that, in the same size type but separated by a thin black line, Showplace of the Nation (no quotation marks around either).

The most impressive shows I saw at RCMH were the special event presentations after they stopped screening first run fare.
I saw "Napoleon" with the live orchestra and triptych sequence and
"A Star is Born" in Technicolor, CinemaScope and magnetic stereo sound with the extra scenes spliced into the print.

When I was very young my family took me there three times in 1966.
The theater was impressive as were the stage shows but unfortunately, the movies I saw were bad. "The Singing Nun", "The Glass Bottom Boat" and "Inside Daisy Clover". I saw the last official release, "Crossed Swords" and that was medicore too. I wish I had seen some of the good pictures they played there over the years. Just my bad luck attending turkeys.

In terms of the projection booth, I believe I read that they installed the lazy 8 horizontal projectors for "White Christmas" but later removed them when VistaVision was used to generate a finer grain reduction print in 1.85 Technicolor rather than using it to project a horizontal Eastmancolor print.

70mm projectors were installed for "Airport" at the director's request. They later had a 70mm festival at the Hall and showed
"Gone with the Wind" and others in that format. I wish I had attended them.

Although "Gone with the Wind" looked awful in it's pan/scan blow up print, it was a smash hit in that format and revived several times including a playdate at the Rivoli in 70mm. They didn't derive it from the 3 strip B&W negative or a Technicolor print. They made a color Interpositive from the seps, then pan scanned it by cropping the tops and bottoms of the color IN and enlarging that part of the frame to 65mm.

3-D would not have been appropriate for RCMH since the distance to the screen would've required a lot more luminance from the lamphouse to compensate for the loss of light from polarization. They also would've had to install an enormous custom made silver screen. The trouble with silver screens is they lose gain from balconies and from off center seating. The place is too big for so many people to have seen it properly.

The reason RCMH and many Roadshow large screen houses folded in the seventies was the lack of quality mainstream product. After the demise of the production code in 1968, more and more restricted films were released each year. By 1980 there were more R rated films than PG which posed a problem for large theaters that needed general audiences to fill their seats.

Perhaps REndres can answer the question about VistaVision. I have always wondered what the history of that process was. I recall Century projector did not have enough time to build the complete projector, and supplied only the picture head for "White Christmas" so the sound had to be interlocked on a second projector. How true is that story, was a perspecta(s)optical sound format used? and how long did RCMH project actual VistaVision before switching to the reduction prints.Lastly, I believe the line up of the five projectors is, #1 and #5 are Simplex XL 35mm projectors with RCA Photophone sound heads, and #2 #3 and #4 are Simplex 35/70 with penthouse Dolby Digital sound reproducers mouted above the magnetic penthouse. Educate us please.

They only used VistaVision for large format (horizontal Eastmancolor eight sprocket prints) from 1954-1956. Among the last films to be shown in that format were "The Ten Commandments" and "The Man Who Knew Too Much". All Paramount VistaVision films contained the Perspecta encoding which generated directional sound between three speakers behind the screen but no surround. The exception was "The Ten Commandments" which did have a magnetic stereo mix. I don't believe any other VV title had a stereo mix other that this film.
Curiously, some of the Hitchcock titles were released in Perspecta
sound include the above mentioned "MWHTM" as well as "To Catch a Thief" and "The Trouble with Harry". When Hitchcock was involved with the Perspecta encoding is unknown since he never mentioned it in any of his interviews. I did hear original 35mm Technicolor reels of Harry and Thief and they definately had the encoding although it wasn't used too much. On the thief reel, the only section that used the directional sound was when they were driving around the hills in the car. Otherwise, everything came out of the center speaker. Harry only had music cues on the other speakers. The dialogue was center channel. In comparison the Perspecta prints of Universal's "This Island Earth" were very lively with sound bouncing around the front three speakers at different volume.

Very few cinemas were actually set up for horizontal VV projection.
It was noticed early on that it generated a dramatically sharper
reduction print in 1.85. One of the problems theaters were having is that when they took standard flat 1.33 movies and artifically
made them into 'widescreen' by cropping the top and bottom of the frame and enlarging them (i.e. "Shame"), the image fell apart and became grainy. VistaVision addressed this problem and the Technicolor or B&W print downs generated an ultra sharp and grain free image when enlarged in this fashion. VistaVision negatives were also A&B rolled so that the optical effects like fades and dissolves were the same first generation as the rest of the film. In contrast, CinemaScope films had extremelly grainy and contrasty opticals on dupe stock.

I would classify VistaVision as the best of the 'cropped' widescreen processes. Much better than conventional 1.85 or SuperScope. Unfortunately, it was phased out in the sixties along with most of the other technology introduced in the sixties with the exception of 70mm and Panavision. Now only Panavision is left which is certainly better than CinemaScope (less distortion in the anamorphic lenses) but no match for the large format systems. I guess technically SuperScope is still around too although it's now called "Super 35".

All of RKO's Fred Astaire-Ginger Rogers musicals, from "Flying Down to Rio" through "The Story of Vernon & Irene Castle," made their NYC debuts at RCMH. But though the team's 1949 MGM reunion movie, "The Barkleys of Broadway," seemed a logical booking for RCMH, it opened instead at Loew's State on May 4th of that year. RCMH was then in the final weeks of its Easter Show with Paramount's "A Connecticut Yankee" (Bing Crosby) on screen. On May 11th, RCMH switched to MGM's "The Stratton Story" and "Ridin' High," a stage show paying tribute to the music of Cole Porter.

Warren, speaking of logical bookings, it would have seemed appropriate for the Hall to book "Annie Get Your Gun" (which went to Loew's State rather than "Father of the Bride."(although it was a hit there for 6 weeks. Go figure.

The Father of the Bride was fine. The Music Hall mystery of all time was the Nancy Reagan film that followed it.

Vincent, I believe the new regime (Dore Schary) at MGM wanted to bring prestige to their new policy of low-budget "message" pictures, so "The Next Voice You Hear" was the kickoff. It also played the lower half of double bills soon after. Except for "Sunset Boulevard" and "King Solomon's MInes," 1950 had such notable bombs as "A Woman of Distinction," and "No Sad Songs for Me."

One of the early contributors to RCMH's downfall was the Easter show that opened on April 5, 1962 with Walt Disney's third-rate "Moon Pilot" on screen and a stage show that started with the traditional "Glory of Easter" pageant and then switched to "Disneyland USA" for the balance. The Disneyland portion included an underwater ballet and concluded with a fireworks display and parade featuring all the famous Disney cartoon characters. Managing director Russell Downing later said that business was good but not as big as expected. He blamed it mostly on the movie, which RCMH was forced to book in order to get Disney cooperation for the stage show. The engagement lasted until May 17, when another mediocre Disney movie, "Bon Voyage" opened, but with a conventional RCMH stage show.

I don't think I ever heard of "Moon Pilot", I have to look that one up.

I'd hardly single out Moon Pilot as an early contributor to the Music Halls downfall simply because it was a so so picture(it's very pleasant in its own way though it's not what you want it to be) but the stage show pictures I've seen look great and after all the Hall chose Green Mansions as the Easter film a few years before so you could probably go back to that. Also what in the world was Charade doing as a Christmas film?

According to Ben Olevsky, the Hall ran the pre-Christmas run of "White Christmas" in horizontal VistaVision with the track run interlocked on one of the four projectors in the booth. (The VistaVision projectors were put on either side of the booth in the slide projector/effect spots openings. This created a sound problem, since those rooms also contained follow spots, and there was no glass in the ports. They put Duveteen over the openings which was used to cut down the noise. According to Ben, you could hear the machines running as you came up to the booth on the Executive elevator when it reached the First Mezzanine! He didn't mention the sound being Perspecta, although I had Perspecta schematics in my filing cabinet, and some perspecta test reels. It probably was used for MGM releases at the time rather than "White Christmas". Since the VistaVision heads were put together in very little time, the intermittents which were running at double speed (180'/minute)took a beating, and Ben said Larry Davee from Century was in almost every day with a replacement. The machines were removed at the end of the "White Christmas" run. According to Theo Gluck of Disney in a paper he wrote on wide screen processes there is some evidence to suggest that horizontal VistaVision prints (including some Hitchcock pictures) were run in London after we had stopped using the machines here in the States for theatrical exhibition.

Vincent, I agree with you about "Charade" as the Christmas show. I like it and all, but some of those murders were pretty gruesome for their time. I'm surprised the Music Hall made that choice, but they did love to show Audrey Hepburn films.

With all due respect to Audrey Hepburn, "Charade" also starred Cary Grant, who was the Music Hall's "all-time boxoffice champion." Over the years, 25 of Grant's films had been shown at RCMH, for a total playing time of 99 weeks. "Charade" was only the sixth of Hepburn's 11 starring films up to then that had opened at RCMH.

Frederic Kellers, who was Vice President of House Operations for the Hall, and involved with the film selection, told me that the most complaints they ever received about a film were about "Charade" particularly as a Christmas show. He said the most mentioned scene was where James Coburn takes out a pin and stabs the corpse of Hepburn's husband while it is lying in state in the church.

With all due respect to Cary and you Warren Grant began his career when stars regularly produced multiple films every year and films had for the most part much shorter runs in their premiere engagements. Had Hepburn begun her carreer when Grant did then perhaps she might have ko'd the champ. Nobody admires Grant more than I but the idea of seeing Audrey on the screen at the Music Hall in Givenchy-well I guess there would be nothing more to live for.

REndres, thanks a lot for the VistaVision info. You have confirmed what I belived the facts to be relating to that. I assume then no other films were ever projected in VistaVision at the hall? I understood Century did eventually build a VistaVision projector complete with a sound head shortly after "White Christmas". I recall them being installed at the Paramount, RCMH never installed them?
One other question regarding magneic prints, did RCMH play all of those great MGM musicals of the 50s and 60s in four track mag or perspecta? or for that matter prior to the 35/70mm projector installations, did they ever use four track mag at all?.

Warren, sorry I didn't give Cary his due. I should've known he'd be the all-time Music Hall box-office champ - the first time my family went to see the Christmas show, it was a Cary Grant film ("Father Goose") and the line was insanely long. We gave up and saw "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" instead.

Frederic Kellers was also involved in the choice of Robin and Marian as the Easter 76 show. I remember him expressing his dismay at the absolutely abysmal turnout for that one and staring at him in total disbelief wondering well what in the world did you expect!

I saw Robin and Marian there. Not a good movie, and a bit of a downer. But I don't recall an empty house.

"White Christmas" was the only film to run in horizontal VistaVision at the Hall. Century did produce a VistaVision projector with an optical soundhead in the usual position, althouth the feed reel was under the soundhead. I had the oportunity to run a Century VistaVision projector (without the soundhead) to do effect dailies on "Men In Black","Jungle 2 Jungle" and "Michael". It was an interesting experience, since a misframe looks like a split screen, and framing is left to right rather than up and down. The Hall had 35mm mag capabilities from the start of CinemaScope, although weak on the surround channel. There were actually two complete mag systems installed as well as two optical systems with a switch that literally switched between optical system #1 and #2 and mag system #1 and #2. The Hall was always big on back-up. I have a picture of Ben Olevsky in his office with a wall of RCA sound racks installed behind him. All four projectors had mag penthouses installed. When the fifth projector was installed (where one of the VistaVision projectors had been placed), it didn't have mag capability, but we still had the three 35/70mm machines and retained the 35mm penthouse on the #1 projector. In the VistaVision section of the American Widescreen Museum site, I think there's a picture of one of the VistaVision projectors at the Hall, and you can just see the gel changer on one of the high-intensity effects spots next to it.

There have been a few posts here on the selection committee and choosing of films. Were prints shipped to the Music hall for all the choices to be screened? Was this done in the auditorium or did the hall have a screening room?

The Music Hall had its own screening room. Sometines prints were sent there. Other times, execs attended screenings or "sneak" previews elsewhere, and often traveled to Los Angeles for that purpose. RCMH would not consider "foreign" movies that had to be shown with sub-titles or dubbed into English. When it finally made an exception in 1969 with Sophia Loren's "Sunflower," the dubbing caused a furor. Scores of patrons walked out to the lobby and demanded refunds. NYC Consumer Advocate Bess Meyerson received so many complaints that she started a campaign to require theatres and advertising to prominently mention whether a foreign-made movie was being shown dubbed or with sub-titles.

Sunflower was in the fall of '70 and I remember seeing it at a packed Saturday morning perf but don't remember people being unhappy at the dubbing though it was certainly obvious. The movie was mediocre and the stage show was pretty bad. I just don't think at this point in time the Music Hall could have shown anything else. There just wasn't any product that would have been suitable for the place. The effects of the collapse of the studio system were hitting the Hall especially hard just then. Last night TCM showed their CG doc including shots of the crowds going into the Hall for the Phil Story and North by NW. Talk about eating yourself up over what you missed.

Thanks REndres for all that info, I have wondered about that for some time. Is Ben still around? he must have some great stories.
He worked when projectionists were artists and like you, it had to have been a wonderfull, if not nerve shattering job, to project at the hall. Please tell us, how many men worked a shift, how was the work divided up. I know the cues were called out during a changeover. what other secrets/stories can you share? Has anyone ever missed a cue or screwed up a changeover? Tell us all you can, RCMH had to have been a projectionists dream job.

The Music Hall had two screening rooms: Preview A and Preview B. Preview A was large enough that they could do staff screenings for the Rockettes and stage crew on the supper break (when "Gone With the Wind" opened they screened one half each night for two nights, since it was too long for the staff to catch on a dinner break). Screening new features each night for the staff may not have been entirely altruistic on the part of management -- it kept the crew out of bars during the long break! The smaller room was the RKO screening room when the company occupied the office building built over the lobby. There was a common lobby area outside the two rooms with steps leading down to a set of doors on the Music Hall roof which opened out on a short walk which led to doors into the RKO
building, so RKO staff could cross over into the Hall for screenings without having to go down to street level. It probably was in one of those two screening rooms that "Citizen Kane" was first screened in New York. Robert Wise, who was the editor, recalls hand carrying the film to the Hall for a screening for select press members. Both rooms eventually became Cine-Mix an early film re-recording and mixing facility, and then became idle when Cine-Mix got too big for the space. I frequently screened shorts for Charles Hacker, the Hall's Chief Operating Officer and Frederic Kellers in Previw B, as well as worked on film effects for the stage shows in that room. We were able to keep copies of a number of shorts that the Hall played, and if it was a quiet day, Fred would ask if we could go up and screen something. When I left, the rooms were being used as offices, but the booths were still there used for storage (they are nitrate capable booths and therefore built like bunkers). One of the projectors with a lamphouse used in the Rear Projection booth backstage is now on display at the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens.

RKO's "Mr. Lucky" (Cary Grant-Laraine Day), which may be the only movie missing from Charles Francisco's "complete" list of RCMH films, opened on July 22nd, 1943, and ran through September 8th, with Leon Leonidoff's "Gala Russe" as the stage show. On September 9th, the program changed to Paramount's "So Proudly We Hail" (Claudette Colbert-Paulette Goddard) and Russell Markert's "Minstrel Show" revue.

Concerning Mr. Lucky that's a pretty good run for a film that is completely forgotten today. Does anybody know why Grant's last film, which should have been a shoo-in for the Hall in the mid-sixties, did not play there? I believe the Times review asks this same question.

REndres-- Thanks for your description of the two screening rooms. Your reference to the Rear Projection booth backstage answers my question posted on this page last 25 January about the booth's odd extrusion into the Associated Press Building as seen in detailed floorplans of RCMH.

Vincent-- In 1959-60, "Mr. Lucky" provided the basis for a television series that Blake Edwards directed, starring John Vivyan, with music by Henry Mancini. When Grant's swan-song "Walk, Don't Run" opened at Loew's State in August '66, RCMH was showing "How to Steal a Million" with Audrey Hepburn and Peter O'Toole, the latter erstwhile viewed as an inheritor of Grant's legacy and charm.

One of its most inappropriate Christmas show movies was in 1943 with "Madame Curie," a sombre B&W biopic about the discovery of radium. People with children in tow must have gone nuts trying to keep them under control during the film's running time of two hours and four minutes. The aisles probably had a constant flood of visitors to the lounges...At the same time, the nearby Roxy was presenting one of the most joyous Christmas shows in its history, Busby Berkeley's Technicolored "The Gang's All Here" (Alice Faye & Carmen Miranda) and a stage revue including Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, Jimmy Dorsey & His Orchestra, singers Kitty Kallen and Paul Carley, comedian Ray English, the Gae Foster Roxyettes, and an "animal act" known as Gautier's Steeplechase.

A year earlier, the '42 Christmas show was the equally sombre (and equally long and equally Greer Garson-ed) "Random Harvest." At least with "Mme Curie," kids might be convinced that the bio was good historical medicine for them. Three rousing Christmas shows at RCMH towards the end of Cary Grant's career were "Operation Petticoat" ('59), "Charade" ('63), and "Father Goose" ('64). "Walk, Don't Run" might have been a good late summer film at RCMH, even though its story skirted the tsk-tsk topic of co-habitation (so did "The More the Merrier, which opened at RCMH in May twenty-two years earlier). I stand second to none in admiring Hepburn, Wyler, and O'Toole, but I thought "How to Steal a Million" quite dull. The astute author of a superb Hepburn bio mentions critics who faulted "a trite script" and "elephantine direction." Worse than "Million," the films preceding and following it were the silly "Glass Bottom Boat" and the slow-moving "Kaleidoscope." Surely "Walk, Don't Run" might have zig-zagged into RCMH instead of either.

Thanks for bringing back some awful childhood memories, BoxOfficeBill.

I had a HS schoolmate visiting from NJ during the holidays and he wanted to see Father Goose at RCMH. Being a young New Yorker, who never waited on line to see a film that would be elsewhere in 6-7 weeks, I tried to talk him out of it. But noooooo, we waited in the freezin' cold for, I guess, 4-5 hours (was that the normal wait time for a Christmas show????. It seemed like days). Worse yet, he wouldn't let me leave him in our spot so that I could go find some hot chocolate or food....anything!

It was the first and last time that I fell asleep in a movie theater and, to this day, have never seen the complete Father Goose. (PS...The friendship didn't last much longer.)

Great story Jerry though I would have happily waited those hours to see that Christmas show(and I've never been able to get through the entire film myself.)
Harvest does seem a rather sombre film for a Christmas show(well what about The Late George Aply as an Easter Show and then there was the R Russell aviatrix Easter show-what were they thinking?) But I give it a pass because I think it is one of the most beautiful films to ever come out of Hollywood. It's like grand opera-it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but is it ever powerful.

"Sayonara" with its double-suicide (in gloomy WarnerColor no less) and its psychically tormented Marlon Brando was even more somber at Christmas '57. Roz Russell understandably rocked the place as "Auntie Mame" a year later.

Getting back to waiting in line at the Music Hall: Remember that the foyer was not built for hold outs like the Roxy Theater which could accomodate 1,500 people standing in the rotunda and another 500 in the tunnels leading to the balcony. The Music Hall foyer was designed for reserved seating throughout with the exiting doors to the orchestra opening directly into the foyer. A full initial (6,000 seated for the first show in the morning; often on a Sunday during holiday times)would require the foyer and all doors free of waiting patrons; at the break, entrances on both 50 and 51st street would be opened to speed things up. It was always a problem getting people in between breaks. Actually the management preferred a continuing spill to keeps things moving smoothly. Most days the foyer line would be kept to a minimum just to feed the standing room within the orchestra. Therefore a streetline would be a typical sight before breaks even if there were seats available. With all boxoffices going for the initial, it took one hour to fill the house.

You're right BOB. Perhaps we should give the prize to Sayonara as most bizarre holiday show ever(I'd say Charade would be second. Those gruesome deaths are still difficult to watch today.)

Sayonara was a huge hit...possibly the highest Christmas grosser in their history playing nine weeks. People love to cry at movies and Christmas is no exception. Brando was big boxoffice. The pity with that engagement was the short 25-minute show, although it did include the famed underseas ballet.

Sayonara was originally scheduled as a fall show to be followed by Don't Go Near the Water for Christmas. For some reason they were switched.. My programs show that Cinderella's Coach was the highlight of the Christmas stage show, and the underseas ballet was the following year with Auntie Mame, which also included a wonderful Rocket to the Moon spectacle. Cheers!

I've also read elsewhere that the Roxy Theater's lobby could accommodate vast numbers and that the Radio City Music Hall lobby wasn't designed for this. But I'm a bit skeptical, and would be interested in a bit more detailed info if anyone has any.

Looking at floor plans, it seems that the Radio City Music Hall lobby was actually much larger than that of the Roxy -- just a bit narrower, perhaps, but much deeper. In the Music Hall, the lobby went clear across the block, from 50th to 51st St., plus there was a basement lounge that seemed to be about as wide as the street level lobby and it also went clear across the block. In contrast, the Roxy's rotunda only went, so it seems from the plans in "Best Remaining Seats," about halfway into the block (and it doesn't appear to be all that much wider -- if it was even wider in the first place -- than that of either the RCMH lobby or the RCMH basement lounge).

Also, since no one seems to mention a vast basement lounge for the Roxy, I'm guessing that it didn't have one. While it's true that the lobby spaces for Music Hall balcony levels were narrow (pre-empted by the open space above the lobby), I get the impression that the vast basement lounge was the RCMH's answer to whatever upper level lounges/waiting spaces the Roxy might have had.

So it's hard to imagine why -- or how -- the Roxy could accommodate so many more people in its lobby (rotunda) than Radio City Music Hall could in its lobby spaces.

How did people actually wait in the Roxy rotunda? Did they just stand there in line -- but indoors instead of outdoors -- or were there 1,500 seats/benches in the rotunda and 500 seats/ benches in the tunnels leading to the balcony? If they were just standing there, it seems to me a similar arrangement could have been set up in the Music Hall if the management really wanted to.

I'm not saying it would be easy to do -- it probably would necessitate different procedures and different circulation patterns -- but it doesn't appear to be all that impossible or that the Roxy was set up all that differently or better than RCMH for waiting crowds. Rather it seems more like a business decision, that in one theater they wanted people waiting in lines in the lobby and in another they didn't.

On the other hand, one other guess -- and this is in support of the Roxy having more waiting space -- in the Hall book there are photos of an upper level foyer in the Roxy. (The one pictured has large decorative windows, so I suppose it is behind one of the windows on the 50th St. side.) This foyer seems rather wide and, if I recall correctly has decorative niches that could accommodate a bench or two. So, if the Roxy did have any advantages, I guess this would be it. But it's still hard to imagine that these wide hallways made that big a difference.

- - - - -

P.S. -- I have a vague recollection that the basement lounge of RCMH was indeed used as a waiting area of sorts (maybe for those with reserved seats?). I wonder if this was true?

So the Auntie Mame Christmas show started with the Nativity then went from the bottom of the sea and then to the Moon? All this and Roz at her greatest? Today's Christmas show might as well be staged in a day-care center for all the effect it makes.

There were never seats for those waiting in line either at the Roxy or at the Music Hall. The Roxy had the advantage, however since they could pack patrons, often 10 abreast, from the outer lobby on 7th Ave and 50th St. all the way (virtually a block long) to the auditorium entrance which was to the right of the rotunda in the direction of the elevators to the balcony,leaving ample exit room from doors to the center and left of the rotunda. Waiting crowds never had to mingle with those leaving as ropes were used. In neither theaters were the lounges used for waiting, unless you had reserved seats or didn't care if you lost your place in line. The Roxy also allowed (although it was against fire regulations) patrons to wait on the grand staircase to the balcony. That line often stretched from the balcony to the main floor. This is the reason, street lines were rare at the Roxy, except for those few gigantic hits like "Forever Amber," "Wilson," "The Robe," "The Razor's Edge,"and "Stars and Stripes Forever." Sorry about my memory about the underseas ballet...they did it so often I often mismatch film and show. Does anyone know what production was repeated the most?

Probably Ravel's Bolero or Rhapsody in Blue were the most repeated spectacles on stage over the years... Dancing Waters which was franchised appeared several times from 1953 to 1958 and then that was it... Does anyone know about "Magic Mirrors" spectacle which appeared on stage in the summer of 1955 with Mr.Roberts. A similar title appeared in the stage show in the summer of 1965 along with the showing of "The Sandpiper".. Of course the good old standby of "Serenade to the Stars" appeared often in the '50s. That was always with a Russell Market production.

For people who saw such things as Magic Mirrors and
Seranade to the Stars how do you think these things would go over today?

Probably fine for anyone over 60/70...would have to be enhanced versions Las Vegas style. I never saw Magic Mirrors, but Serenade to the Stars was a spectacular finale.

Serenade to the Stars was the finale of the show that accompanied North by Northwest. I saw many performances. It was problematic as the lights often short circuited and did not light up in sequence destroying the illusion as the hydraulic stage was raised to its full height. When it worked, it was awesome...when it didn't, well...a shame. Describe Magic Mirrors. What what done.

I wish I knew more about Magic Mirrors... It was advertised as part of the Masquerade stage show with "Mr. Roberts". I think it was franchised like "Dancing Waters". If anyone here knows about Magic Mirrors please let us know.. By the way there were other variations of "Serenade to the Stars" such as "Court of Jewels" and "Old Fashioned Garden". I have programs with both of them listed. Yes, I saw "Serenade" with both North by Northwest and The Chalk Garden.. It also appeared with Under Capricorn, Lovely to Look At, and Jupiter's Darling... As you can see, I am an expert on the Music Hall.

I remember "Old Fashioned Garden" (Easter show with "Green Mansions") for the aroma that was pumped through the vents and permeated the entire auditorium. If you had allergies to floral bouquet you were in big trouble.

stoppit already, my mailbox is exhausted!

The Showplace Program for 26 March '59 identifies the perfum for the "Old Fashioned Garden" finale as "Antilope by Parfums Weil, Paris." The sequence was preceded by the Corps de Ballet dancing to music from Offenbach's "La Belle Helene" and Leon Minkus's "Don Quixote." Credits note "Junior Fashions inspired by 'Green Mansions' ... Flowers by Modern Artificial Flowers, Inc. Radium effects by Stroblite Co. and Black Light Eastern Corp." Whaaa? Costumes modeled on Audrey Hepburn's spidery jungle shift? Paper-mache orchids with Parisian perfume? Radium rays that are really a show, send you out with a kind of glow? The world is a stage.

Box Office Bill: You are great. Someone ought to put together a book just about the stage shows, Variety always reviewed the shows under "house reviews", plus scanning all the programs?

So how in the world did they clear out the parfum by the beginning of the movie or did they allow it to linger to cover the stink of the film?

We could smell it in the outer foyer by the box offices when we were entering... Audrey Hepburn was on screen and waiting in the wings for "The Nun's Story", 3 shows down the road... and along with it, "The Burning of Nome" spectacle which was a first and last at the Music Hall.

Sombody really needs to put together a book of photos from the Hall stage shows with a description of the perennials. The pictures for the most part from the souvenir books until the early 60's contain photos which are fairly grainy and washed out. However I have seen color photos from as early as the 50's in souvenir slides and reproduced in encyclopedias which give you a great sense of what these production numbers really looked like. Otherwise you are stuck with that book that came out on the Music Hall about 25 years ago which was sloppily edited with snapshot photos that did no justice to the great stage.
In the early 70's the Hall had set up on 50th street color photos of old stage shows from a studio called Impact. They looked great. There must be quite a few of them somewhere. Anybody know what happened to them? If they were stored at the Hall I'm afraid that one of the dim bulbs that works there now would have thrown them out already.

Vincent, why don't you send this book suggestion to the RCMH website?

From what I've seen of that website there is just a cursory nod to the Music Halls history as a presentation house solely for pr purposes. The current management seems to have done as much as possible to eradicate the Hall's pre-1978 existence and has absolutely no interest in or sensitivity to its historical place in New York's cultural life.

Does anybody who saw North by Norwest at the Music Hall(perhaps multiple times?) remember if the final shot got a laugh? Or were the Music Hall patrons of the era too staid and conservative to get the joke(or if they did they kept it to themselves?)

I didn't get it at the time, but I was an innocent 16 year...so innocent that I could sit on the second balcony and smoke cigarettes... Needles to say I am no longer an innocent and I haven't had a cigarette in years. I don't remember any tittering rippling through the great hall during phallic and sensual finale. I think the patrons didn't get it.

I don't remember hearing any laughter or any audible signs of "getting it" re: the final scenes, during the many times I saw "North by Northwest" in my position as an usher.

Thanks for your reponses. I was hoping that those audiences in '59 always gave that a huge laugh as it's a great joke and not at all subtle. So I guess Hitchcock was laughing to himself.

I recall seeing it at the 2nd run Stanley-Warner Orpheum in the Germantown section of Philadelphia, PA in late 1959. Maybe we were jaded, but it got a big laugh there. Even though not in VistaVision :)

The rap/hip hop artists Jill Scott and Common grossed $637,281 in just two performances at RCMH on March 4th and 5th, according to the latest issue of Billboard Magazine. The total attendance was 11,823, described as a "sell-out." Tickets were priced at $63, $58, $45.50, and $35.50.

Talk about selling your soul to the devil.

"Talk about selling your soul to the devil."

Vincent: why do you say that? Ok, so it's not your kind of music (for the record, it's not mine either...) but the Hall is being used constantly. I work where I can see the Marquee every day and the sucker is booked every week. Thank God venues are being booked there from Yanni(!!!) to rap/hip-hop to mild rock (Maroon 5). It's usage is what keeps the place vital.

CC I'm personally waiting for Playboy's topless mud wrestling.

Which I am sure will utilize the Hall's magnificent facilities with equal skill and flair.

For a movie to equal the two-performance gross of Jill Scott & Common, RCMH would have to charge a general admission of $54 per ticket.

Vincent: I see your point. I assume you're saying that the days of the Hall's holding itself above the ordinary and only booking extraordinary (or merely family oriented) material is long gone. They do show a somewhat eclectic mix (Dora the Explorer, Yanni, Maroon 5). I guess if the price is right, anything goes. This place is now managed (owned?) by the same folks who manage the Garden so I assume their tastes are not exactly high end. But they probably want the most $$$$$.

I don't know. It's a mixed blessing at best. We get the Hall to stay open and used (which is good...) but at times it's used by less than stellar stuff (which is bad...).

The Music Hall's survival is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

I remember in the late 1980s/early 1990s going to see the Abel Gance's "Napolean" at RCMH. Carmen Coppolla conducted a full ochestra if memory serves me correctly.

And I remember attending that same film series that ran in the summer of '97 that someone above mentioned. The only film I caught in that series was "The Blues Brothers," but if memory serves me correctly that screening was very well attended.

I remember in the late 1980s/early 1990s going to see the Abel Gance's "Napolean" at RCMH. Carmen Coppolla conducted a full ochestra if memory serves me correctly.

And I remember attending that same film series that ran in the summer of '97 that someone above mentioned. The only film I caught in that series was "The Blues Brothers," but if memory serves me correctly that screening was very well attended.

Pyrrhic victory \PIR-ik\, noun:
A victory achieved at great or excessive cost; a ruinous victory.

Example: Technically it was a victory for the British, who attacked the patriot fortifications -- but a Pyrrhic victory if ever there was: out of 2,200 British soldiers 1,034 were killed or wounded, including one in nine of all the officers the British lost in the whole war.

Carmen Coppolla, usually credited as Carmine Coppola.

John Keating, your post brings back memories. I also saw Love Me or Leave Me at the Music Hall in May of 1953. The stage show was Ravel's Bolero. I remember the it as if it were yesterday. Thanks for the memory!

oops, sorry, John, my husband (who was my date back then) reminds me that the year was 1955.

I saw Napoleon there also with my dad in the 80's.

I saw Napoleon there also with my dad in the 80's.

And if you saw Love Me or Leave Me in the summer of 55 you could go back to see Mister Roberts which followed. Has a greater heaven on earth ever existed?

Every December 8th (a Catholic holiday and my children had no school), I would take my young son and daughter to the Music Hall, stand on line in the often freezing weather, to give them the experience of a lifetime, the Christmas show. I did this throughout the 1960s and to this day my children share those memories with their children.

The movie theaters of yesteryear were truly glorious palaces, as important to us as the great palaces across the seas.

***"Regarding the previous posts about "Airport" at RCMH, does anyone know what other theaters in the U.S. showed 70mm prints of this film. I've always heard there were very few. If you answer, please give your source."

Slightly off-topic, but you asked...

Initial March 1970 release: New York, Los Angeles, Kansas City, and, I believe, Chicago. Later that year as the release expanded: San Diego and San Francisco. I haven't researched this beyond those cities, but I imagine most major cities ran a 70mm print.

OK, now it's my turn to ask a question. Who saw "Napoleon" at Radio City? How many return engagements to New York City did it have?

i saw the original at RCMH with daddy coppola conducting an orchestra. my question is: i have heard that there was another engagement sometime later - either with 3 projectors, or in single projector 70mm - that used a massive screen, presumably the widest possible inside the proscenium. is this true?
Re: airport 70mm. not in philadelphia. also, "napoleon," also only 35mm in the city of cant-be-bothered-with-70mm-love. "airport" opened in philly in a 70mm-equipped house, but with an anamorphic 35mm print. "napoleon" opened in a 35mm-only house.
vince

Here's a photo of RCMH's CinemaScope screen and masking, taken upon its debut in Jan. '54. It comes from Theatre Catalog magazine, 12th edition, 1954-55, p. 266.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh.jpg

The screen is fully exposed in this photo. The top mask moved downwards a few feet to produce a 2.5 ratio for Cinemascope. Side masks moved in several feet to produce a ratio of 1.8 for standard widescreen. At this time, RCMH still projected its newsreels and short subjects on its original-size 1.33 screen, roughly one-third of the surface seen here (you can glimpse its effect in Hitchcock's 1942 "Saboteur" when Robert Cummings chases the villain across RCMH's stage while a film is in progress). During newsreels, the framing arches were illuminated with dark-blue back-lighting to provide some visibility for patrons arriving or departing between the film and the stage show.

If you strain, you can also see a lamppost at each side of the proscenium, used as props for the Rockette's spectacular Stage-door Johnny routine that accompanied "Knights of the Round Table" in Jan. '54.

***"my question is: i have heard that there was another engagement sometime later - either with 3 projectors, or in single projector 70mm - that used a massive screen, presumably the widest possible inside the proscenium. is this true?"***

I'm aware of Radio City engagements of "Napoleon" during Jan. 23-25, 1981, and then a return run during Oct. 15-18 & 22-25, 1981. I'm trying to determine if there were any additional runs at Radio City or any other NYC venues.

When the 70mm version was about to open in L.A. in July 1982, VARIETY ran an article mentioning plans for a wider release of the film "at major houses in N.Y. and 10 other cities in October (1982)."

Re your question about the return run on a larger screen at Radio City: "Premiering a print reportedly tinted and toned to director Abel Gance's original plans, 'Napoleon' will be projected on a new 90 foot screen at Radio City Music hall during its return engagement Oct. 15-18 and Oct. 22-25." (VARIETY, "Napoleon In Tints At Radio City Encore," Sep. 30, 1981)

I have collected a number of articles concerning the restoration of "Napoleon," and they include a lot of contradictory details regarding the presentations and whether they were 35mm shown using multiple projectors, whether a 70mm print was used for the Triptych sequence, or whether a 70mm print with recorded sound was used for the whole presentation. I've communicated with Radio City projectionist Bob Endres and Bob Harris, who worked on the restoration, both of whom have supplied various bits of information but unfortunately there still is some confusion. Maybe Mr. Endres will chime in to this discussion.

Some folks have asked Bill Kallay and myself why "Napoleon" was not included in our "70mm In New York" article and historical list. Well, the basic answer is, we'd like to include it but are uncomfortable doing so until we can conclusively determine when and where it may have played in the NYC area **in 70mm**. Mr. Endres has informed us that his recollection of the Radio City run(s) were 35mm. Any aditional details on the matter are greatly appreciated.

thanks

Nice to see the Music Hall beautifully featured in tonight's Wheel of Fortune.

I'm getting slightly off-topic here, but it relates to NAPOLEON.

I saw the film in Columbus OH, which was the second presentation after RCMH. The film was presented with live orchestra.

The film was shown using 5 projectors. Two temporary units were brought in for the great majority of the film. Those were placed in the 2 spotlight ports of the theatre. The final reel was projected with the 3 house projectors in sync. The house projectors were definitely 35mm, as this theatre never was equipped for 70mm.

I would be curious if RCMH used 5 machines during this presentation.

I believe the next screening with live orchestra was in Syracuse.

I'm not totally sure about this fact, but I believe Boston Light and Sound was a contractor on this job.

Amidst all these fascinating posts on RCMH, for the record, may I add the names of former New York City Councilman Bob Dryfoos and former New York State Lieutenant Governor Mary Ann Krupsak. They led the fight to prevent the imminent demolition and make way for the landmarking that prevented RCMH from facing the wrecker's ball in 1978.

Ms Krupsak uttered the imortal line "the Music Hall will be torn down over my dead body". Thanks to her and Mr Dryfoos this magnificent palace still stands.

Tickets go on sale today (April 16) for the "Christmas Spectacular," which will run from November 3, 2005 through January 2, 2006. Does anyone know what the ticket prices will be? I couldn't find them at www.radiocity.com

If you have to ask you can't afford them.

Re: Napoleon at RCMH. Mike, All of the presentations of Napoleon at the Hall were 35mm using all five of the Hall's projectors. Projectors 1-3-5 were used for the triptych, and 2-4 for the rest of the film which was mounted on 4 6,000' reels; two for the first half and two for the second. Boston Light and Sound did supply the interlocking equipment (the Hall was the first time they did Napoleon, although later they travelled around the country and in some places in Europe with it.) I had a choice of three suppliers when we started looking at people who could do interlocking, and had worked with BL&S at Astoria Studios and was impressed with their work. They brought in their own projector motors with 3-D selsyns mounted on them. We swapped out the house motors on the interlock machines, and they had control for all three machines mounted on the motor bracket for the center #3 machine. When the crew took their dinner break after the load-in Larry Shaw and I swapped out the motors, and had three loops of target film running in sync on the three machines by the time the dinner break was over. The first time we did the show it was on the house sheet which limited the image to 70' for the triptych. We actually ran the first half material a little larger than the second half to give the biggest 1.33 image possible. Then we swapped lenses for the regular machines for the second half so that when we hit the triptych the center panel remained the same size. The next time we did the show, BL&S brought in three 30' wide fast fold screens, and put strips of screen material where the frames butted together in the center. This gave us a 90'+ image. The three screens were bolted together and flown on a pipe just upstage of our regular screen with the First Entrance house blacks used as side masking pulled open by the stage crew at the triptych cue. We never did the triptych in 70mm. When Bob Harris came in he brought the first 70mm test reel, and found that the lab had printed three separate panels rather than butting them together, so we never even tried it. We did do the show without the orchestra, but the track was 35mm mag run on dubbers (one of which had to be switched from the #2 machine feed to the #3 shaft encoder for the triptych. I also wired the sound changeover for that machine so that it would changeover to the #2 machine input so we could use two dubbers for both the regular and the triptych footage. I know of no other screening in New York which might have used the 70mm print, but maybe one slipped by me. I did see it projected that way at the Ocean State Theatre in Providence, R. I. (Formerly the Loews). Napoleon is still my favorite projection experience in 25 years at the Hall, even though a bit nerve wracking. You kind of figure if that triptych doesn't come off after the audience has been waiting for it for almost four hours, they're going to LYNCH you!

*** "But what is desparately needed is a full list of all the stage shows that supported the movies at RCMH" ***

I can partially fulfill this request. Here are the stage productions that supported the 70mm engagements at Radio City.

Source: http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/70mm_in_new_york_main_page.htm

1970:
AIRPORT ... "Glory Of Easter" and "Potpouri '70"
DARLING LILI ... "Ravel's Bolero"
SCROOGE ... "The Nativity" and "Cheers"

1972:
THE COWBOYS ... "...and the Indians!"
MARY, QUEEN OF SCOTS ... "Winter Cruise"

1973:
TOM SAWYER ... "Glory Of Easter" and "Springtime Etc."

1975:
GONE WITH THE WIND/2001/
DOCTOR ZHIVAGO/SINGIN' IN THE RAIN MGM fest ... "It's In Your Stars"
THE WIND AND THE LION ... "Prelude '76"

1978:
CROSSED SWORDS ... "Glory Of Easter" and "Springtime Carousel"

Mike: if you have access to a list of the shows which appeared with 70mm releases at the Hall, you might want to add the stage show that played with a re-issue of "The Sound of Music" which we did in the '70's. The 70mm print we played became an archival print in the Fox library. I have a complete list at home and will try to remember to look it up if you don't have it. (My list came from the Publicity Department, and has the names of the shows, but no details about them. It is inclusive however.)

REndres I remember that Sound of Music Print very well. I never liked roadshow movies at the Hall. I would have preferred to see them at a Broadway house. But that print was stunning and so was the sound. I can still hear that organ during the processional. I would have sworn it was the organ of the theater itself.

*** "Mike: if you have access to a list of the shows which appeared with 70mm releases at the Hall, you might want to add the stage show that played with a re-issue of "The Sound of Music" which we did in the '70's." ***

1975:
THE SOUND OF MUSIC ... "Star Spangled Rhythm"

1994:
THE LION KING ... "Disney's Magical Moments"

I don't have any information on whether there were stage shows for Disney's "Return To Oz" or "The Black Cauldron."

There was definitely a stage show with "Return To Oz", and "The Black Cauldron". The same stage show was used for both films and was rather controversial. Disney had four-walled the house (our paychecks during that time came from Disney, not Radio City) and didn't want to use the Rockettes in the show they were producing. The Rockettes' union leadership could be quite active in pursuing the girls' interests and protested. Finally Disney did use them -- as segments of the worm from "Alice In Wonderland"! I think they also appeared in the finale. Disney didn't try to do a show without them after that, and they were in the "Disney's Magical Moments" show they produced to accompany "The Lion King".

From what I remember the Rockettes had the opening number and were not in any way incorporated into the show. They seemed tagged on at the beginning. I rmember it was a very dreary stage show and The Black Cauldron was very violent. Huge speakers had been placed on the side risers for the earsplitting Dolby. An usher told me parents were complaining about the film. A very depressing evening.

I did the Radio City tour this weekend, first time I've been inside since about 1977. Was it my imagination or did the giant mural become faded when it was cleaned?
Another question, was the theatre originally built with a sprinkler system or was that installed some time later? The guide didn't know.

It's hard to recogize a Rockette if she's one part of a 36 segment worm (although the legs are the same). One of the issues with the sound on "Black Cauldron" was that the preceding film "Return to Oz" was mixed with three channels behind the screen, and left and right surround channels. Walter Murch who is one of the top sound designers and editors to this day was the director, and he was very aware of sound issues. "Black Cauldron" was mixed as a standard six channel 70mm print with five channels behind the screen. The problem was that Disney had brought in a sound system for "Oz" that only had three channels behind the screen, so that when the dialogue was panned across the screen there were holes in the coverage where the additional channels would have been between the Left and Right and Center speakers. The speakers on the Choral stairs were actually the Altec A-7's which were usually used for the house 70mm sound system behind the screen. Disney and Murch set the levels which were loud. The musicians complained about the bass level they had to listen to when they were in the pit waiting to come up for the stage show. (We found that Walter had boosted the bass equalization all the way for "Oz", and corrected that for "Cauldron".) If you thought "Cauldron" was depressing, you should have seen "Oz" -- a very dark version of an Oz story.

Another case of too many cooks spoiling the soup. If they had any sense at all they would simply say to guys like REndres, here's our movie do your magic and play it the way it should be played.
I remember during the technical rehersal for "Hello Dolly" at the Rivoli, the Fox guys were running around playing with the sound, the lights, even the curtain which closed to late leaving a white sheet, the sound seemed loud enough to be heard across the street from the theatre. Some of us complained, and Rivoli management said, "don't worry guys let the Fox guys have some fun, after they leave we can set up everything the way we know it should be" Which is what we did.

Re my continued effort to sort out the "Napoleon" format question... What follows is a timeline with key (and often contradictory) passages from articles and books, as well as the dates of the Radio City Music Hall engagements of the film (including recently found details for a THIRD engagement at RCMH).

"Tickets have gone on sale at the Radio City Music Hall boxoffice for the Jan. 23-25 screenings of Abel Gance's 'Napoleon.' Final reel of the epic, originally shown in 1927 in a three-screen format, will be shown in 70mm Triptych Polyvision." (The New York Times; Dec. 10, 1980)

" 'Napoleon' will be shown in 35 millimeter, with the final section in 70 millimeter Triptych Polyvision." (The New York Times; Jan. 5, 1981)

Radio City Music Hall engagement, Jan. 23-25, 1981.

"As with the London Film Festival presentations last year, final reel was shown using three synchronized 35mm projectors, rather than the transferred-to-70mm version that distributor Images Film Archive reportedly is planning for future exhibition of the film" (Variety; Jan. 28, 1981)

"And the last reel of the 1927 film was presented in 70mm to duplicate the widescreen techniques pioneered by Gance at the time of the Paris premiere." (Millimeter; Feb. 1981)

"Coppola flew in from Rome yesterday to supervise the recording, which was dubbed onto the film's six-track Dolby Stereo score last night at Gomillion, a state-of-the-art postproduction house in West Hollywood." (The Hollywood Reporter; Sep. 29, 1981)

"Premiering a print reportedly tinted and toned to director Abel Gance's original plans, 'Napoleon' will be projected on a new 90 foot screen at Radio City Music Hall during its return engagement Oct. 15-18 and Oct. 22-25. Carmine Coppola will also reprise his role conducting the 60 piece American Symphony through the score he created." (Variety; Sep. 30, 1981)

Radio City Music Hall engagement #2, Oct. 15-18 & 22-25, 1981.

"Is there a commercial market for a four-hour silent film at firstrun theatres? Universal Pictures thinks so. That's why it is going ahead with plans to launch Abel Gance's 1927 epic film, 'Napoleon' July 16 at L.A.'s Cinerama Dome, followed by exclusive openings at major houses in N.Y. and 10 other cities in October. What L.A. audiences will see is a 70mm six-track Dolby print of 'Napoleon,' one of 10 70mm prints Universal plans to make at a cost of close to $20,000 each. Instead of the live orchestra, this time, 'Napoleon' will have a prerecorded score composed by Carmine Coppola, conducting the Milan Philharmonic Orchestra. Universal will also strike about 25 35mm prints for other cities." (Variety; July 6, 1982)

Radio City Music Hall engagement #3, Oct. 14-17, 1982.

The 70mm Blowup Films; Napoleon: 1981; "Wide Screen Movies: A History And Filmography Of Wide Gauge Filmmaking" (McFarland, 1988)

1982: Napoleon; "Presented in 70mm"; Widescreen Review's The Ultimate Widescreen DVD Movie Guide (2001)

1981: Napoleon (with notation that author attended 70mm screening at RCMH in '81); "The Moviegoing Experience, 1968-2001" (McFarland, 2003)

For me, one especially memorable event at Radio City Music Hall was on July 7, 1983. That night the restored/reconstructed "A Star is Born" (George Cukor, 1954) had its gala first presentation in New York. The place was packed to the rafters. Some celebrities in attendance were Liza Minnelli, Lorna Luft, James Mason, and Lillian Gish. It was a thrilling class act.

Michael, "Napoleon" was never done in 70mm at the Hall in the time I was there. There were a lot of press items that were simply wrong because they didn't understand the process. I saw Larry Shaw of Boston Light & Sound who supplied the interlocking equipment yesterday, and we discussed "Napoleon". Larry remembered bringing in the three 30' fast folds for the second showing of the film we did. And as I mentioned above, we did one set of screenings with the above mentioned Milan Orchestra on 35mm mag film interlocked to the 35mm print. I talked to Bob Harris about the Cinerama Dome's presentation, and the triptych could have been in 70mm there. Check with Bob or Larry or Chapin Cutler at B.L. & S. for details, as they did the "Napoleon" screenings in the States and in Italy (the British screenings used a score by Carl Davis and were done somewhat differently with all of the projectors running at "silent" speed). I was Head Projectionist at the Hall for all of the screenings we did of "Napoleon", and was in the booth for every one of them. It may have run somewhere else in N.Y. with a 70mm triptych at some point that I wasn't aware of, and again Bob Harris will have the details. I have some great photos that Chapin's wife took during the second run we did of the film which include a shot of the booth from the orchestra during the triptych with light coming from all three projector ports and another of the picture on the 90' screen. Perhpas some day they can be posted on this site.

Gance was alive at the time of this screening and though too ill to attend(that would have been something!) I believe they hooked up a sound system so he could hear it. When he heard the applause at the end he said "It's too late."

One of my big disappointments was that Gance couldn't make it to New York. Bob Harris had suggested that he would have Gance autograph a "Napoleon" poster for me and that would have certainly been one of the highlights of my career. Bob walked out on stage after the second night's screening with a phone. Gance's nurse woke him up so he could hear the applause. It was certainly one of the most memorable moments I had at the Hall.

Scroll down on here, there are some Radio City programs for sale

http://www.the-forum.com/whatsnew.html

I spent 10 of the best years of my life at the hall. I went from usher to exec car att to costume dept. I was also a member of the showpeoples committee to save the hall in 78.tThere is not now or has there ever been a place like radio city. I love it!!!!

With all deference to Miss Greer Garson a her crowning as "Queen" of the Music Hall for most weeks played there, I believe that Doris Day's films have actually brought in more at the box-office. I believe her 13 films have taken in more than 14 million dollars. In fact the last Day film to play the Music Hall in August-September, 1968, "Where Were You When the Lights Went Out?" briefly held the title of biggest opening week gross in history ($ more than
$ 278,000). It lost that title later that when the the Christmas attraction "The Impossible Years" beat it.

When you're talking $, the Doris Day movies may have grossed more, but only because admission prices were higher than in Greer Garson's era. IMHO, a movie's popularity should be measured by how many tickets were sold, and not by the boxoffice take.

Restoration information & photos:
http://www.hhpa.com/projects/project_details.php?section=theaters&ID=3

Greetings All... I'm the Curator of the Music Hall Pipe Organ, as my family has been involved with & worked at the Theater since it's opening in 1932. Bob Enders - so glad to catch up with you Sir! If there are any facts or questions concerning the Pipe Organ or the Music Hall itself that I can help with, please let me know. My great Uncle installed the organ on the Wurlitzer crew, my father came to work with him in 1956, and my Mother was a Rockette ~ then I started working here at the young age of ten - so my family's history is well entwined within this Majestic building. I look forward to chatting with people within this group!

I just bought the new DVD of Disneys "Happiest Millionaire' which advertises special Roadshow Edition on its cover. I remember seeing this film at the Music Hall. Did it really open Roadshow in other cities?

RichePipes: Good to catch up with you also! Glad you're around this site. So many people have questions, and there's so much speculation that I often want to just refer them to the Music Hall staff, but don't want to create a bother for anyone. At the Hall the tech staff has been there for literally generations, in some cases going all the way back to the opening as with you. Its really possible to go to the "horses mouth" for answers, so I'm glad to see you're here to definitively answer queries about the Music Hall organ. RobertR: I was still in the Midwest when "Happiest Millionaire" opened in Chicago at either the Michael Todd or Cinestage theatres (they were both owned by Todd and were next to one another). It was roadshow, although not 70mm. I remember it because it was the first non-70mm roadshow they played in the house and in refocussing the carbon arc lamps for 35mm, the heat created a "breathing" problem on the film which was quite noticeable. I don't think it had a very long run there roadshow before being released in its non roadshow engagements

Welcome Riche, looking forward to Q&A with you. I have only the utmost respect to all who worked RCMH.
Rob, I remember similar "Breathing" problems in a theatre I worked in with a short throw on to a large curved screen with an arc burning at about 150 amps if I recall. Focus drift was another issue which we resolved with "reverse wrapping" the print, which meant of course running the reels clockwise changing the way the emulsion wrapped on the reel. We had to turn the reel end alarms around and start rewinding "over to over". We even put large arrows pointing the way to load the reels in the upper magazine for the relief guys who all thought we were nuts, But it helped, Ever hear of or try that?

Indeed I have. I was on the Projection Practice Committee of the SMPTE when Eastman came out with that recommendation (16mm film was always oriented that way). We decided when I went to the Hall that since we wanted to follow SMPTE recommendations when possible, we would change the wrap from emulsion out to emulsion in. (I had tried it in the theatre I worked in in Illinois before going to the Hall, but the Business Agent made me put it back lest it lead to a relief operator threading up wrong.) My boss at the Hall and I warned management that there could be a mistake made, but that it was worth trying. Sure enough -- even though we had arrows marked in the magazines, one of the operators at the Hall did thread up wrong and the other operator on the shift didn't catch it. I was in the house at the time, and got to the booth as quickly as I could after the changeover, and by then the crew was rethreading the reel. No one was fired, and of course the operator who made the error felt terrible about it. That was the only time it happened, and up until the time I left, all film 35 and 70mm was wound emulsion it for projection at the Hall.

Great story Rob, I always wonderd if RCMH ran reverse wrap, and due to a typo your message it reads emulsion it, I am not sure if you meant in or out. That would have been a good sign to hang in the booth, ATTENTION: ALL PRINTS ARE RUN EMULSION IT.
All kidding aside, I can only imagine what went thru yours and the operators minds when they made that changeover and saw the film backwards with the sound track running along the left side of the screen. Good Grief!
Which brings me to another question, how many operators were on duty for each shift? how did they divide up the work? I remember they would call out the cue marks to one another during a changeover

Correction, I meant to say the sound track was running along the right side of the screen. well...... at least it wasn't upside down

"Did ['The Happiest Millionaire'] really open Roadshow in other cities?" (RobertR)
***************************

Yes.

Vito: I run all my film emulsion "it"! At the Hall we ran emulsion IN. A year or so ago a reporter from my hometown newspaper in Illinois e-mailed me to do a story about me when she found out that a local man had worked at Radio City. There was a typo in her e-mail which made the headline read, "Local Man Makes Goo!" (I actually kind of liked that.) We had two men on a shift and two shifts per day when I was at the Hall. Prior to my arrival there were three men on a shift. Oddly enough, the union was pushing to eliminate one man and retain the same pay scale to raise the booth rate per man, while the Hall didn't think that two men could run the show and handle the high-intenstiy spot and film effect cues during the stage shows. When I started the Hall agreed to go to two men per shift. As the Head Projectionist I worked two shifts per week as an operator. Ben Olevsky said that was to insure that if the person in the Head's position was deemed unsuitable for that job he would still have two shifts per week to gaurantee some income. And yes, we always did call cues. The schedule was equalized in a way only one of the operator's on the crew really understood, but everyone worked the same number of weekends during the year. There long weeks and short weeks, and those who worked one week on the opening shift would move to the evening shift the next week. I kind of gummed up the works a bit since my boss wanted me free to do other gigs once in a while during the week. Thus I always worked Saturday and Sunday opens, while my predecessors were on a rotating schedule. There were eight men on the crew when I started, and that was later by attrition reduced to seven. The man on the crew who worked out the schedule said someone once tried to do it on a computer and it crashed! After the change in policy in '79 the crew size would vary according to the show, but with the exception of one film series we did when the Hall first changed format, Feature presentations always used two men, and three for the tryptich sequence in "Napoleon". I did do a three screen film effect for the Summer Spectacular one year using the "Napoleon" selsyn rig all by myself, but all of the premieres and the Warner and Universal film retrospectives used two of us in the booth at all times.

Thanks Rob, appreciate the info, my only regret an operator is that I never had a chance to work RCMH. I actually stole the calling cues idea. In the theatres I worked prior to 1972, all 70mm engagements, roadshow or not, always had two men in the booth, so I always insisted on calling cues.
Perhaps either you or Richie can tell us more about how the stage crew handled the film presentaion. Who would actually raise the curtain and open and close the traveler?. Once again, I copied RCMH by doing a "Delux" between shorts, trailers, etc, and the actual feature, I always closed all curtains and re-opened them as you did.
It put a bit of showmanship into the presentation. I also wondered about that guy in the "pit" who would always be busy flipping switches and turning knobs, what did he actually control?

Vito: The contour curtain was raised and lowered by the control board operator who also controlled the traveller (when we had one -- it was removed because we needed another line set for the live "Snow White" production we did). That operator also controlled the elevators and the turntable in the middle of the stage. There was also a stage manager on duty at the end of the feature next to the control board position. We would give the stage an 8 minute warning before the end of the film by buzzing them, and they would acknowledge with a return three buzzes. Then a 2 min.- 2 buzz warning, and finally the actual buzz to start the contour in. We would also buzz at the end of the shorts and trailers preceding the feature to close the traveller and reopen it. The traveller was acoustically transparent so it didn't muffle the sound from the screen, but the three ton contour did as it came in. Screen masking both sides and top was controlled from either the booth or the stage by the original Magnascope system. The guy, and sometimes guys, in the pit actually operated the lighting for the stage show. The board for the lighting was made by G.E. and was the first electronic thyratron controlled system in the city. There was a smaller version in the Rainbow Room at the top of the RCA (now G.E. Building). The controls on the board operated two huge banks of thyratrons, one over the stage in a room that extended from 50th St. to 51st. Street, the other on the shop level one floor below the stage which extended from just a walkway's thickness behind the proscenium line to the back of the stage. That board also controlled selsyn operated color changers for the "X's" and "O's", huge floods mounted in C cove above the stage. There was also a shutter system for blanking out the lights, since thyratrons have a delay time in dimming, and a "blackout" wasn't possible. It was pretty impressive to be in the upper reactor room when either the show was on or the house was fully lit. There were hundreds of rectifier tubes glowing blue. In addition, there had to be ghost loads, since if the stage load wasn't high enough for a given circuit it wouldn't dim completely out, so there were bunches of large wattage incandescent lamps in the reactor room that could be added to a dimmer circuit so it would fully dim. The system was finally replaced during the last remodeling with a computer controlled system operated from the back of the house, although the original board is still in its position. I only worked in that area once during Julio Iglesias' show. The video projector controls were placed on the board. Since the pit elevator was up, that meant we were literally at the performer's feet which I found discomforting (particularly with the warm-up comedian who opened the show by juggling axes!) I felt it would be rude to sit there reading in between cues since we were in full view of Julio. I was trying to be as inconspicuous as possible, when on the second night he looked right at us and said, "There are men down there!" He then got down on his knees at the edge of the elevator and leaned over and looked at the board and said, "Ooh! There are lots of switches and things. Stand up and show everybody that you really are there." So the three of us stood up. The audience must have seen three disembodied heads resting on the back console cover which were spotlighted and then popped out of sight! It was my only time in the spotlight at the Hall!

Rob: Were the WB and Universal festivals a big success for Radio City, and do you think there's any chance of more classic films being shown at the Hall that way? This was talked about many, many posts above but now that you're here, there's somebody on the site who actually worked there and can actually answer these questions from the inside. Thanks in advance, and thanks just for being here!

I'm probably not the one to answer that question since it remains to be seen if Cablevision is interested. The Warner and Universal Festivals, contrary to the posts above, did not sell out. (I double checked with my co-projectionist at the time, and we both remember the Third Mezzanine being closed, and for many shows, what we could see of the Orchestra wasn't sold out either.) As Peter Apruzzese has noted above, it is also a very expensive house to book. I can defend the size of the stage crew (which cares very much about the Hall,and is awesome in capability). As I noted, lighting and stage curtain controls are in separate areas necessitating extra crew members. There also has to be a stage manager to co-ordinate the overall operation of the house with the presentation people. Since the theatre has always been involved with stage productions they tend to take precedence, and several of the production vice-presidents have been hostile to movies since they came from a stage background. The current person in that position is a change. He was both Head Carpenter and Head Electrician at the Hall at different times when I was there. He remembers both of those festivals, and respects the Hall's past. Nonetheless, it depends on what Cablevision has in mind. At the time of the Festivals there was a programming person who very much understood film, and wanted to do more, but unfortunately died before he could do so. With all of the turmoil around Cablevision this year, they do seem to want to keep the Hall and Madison Square Garden in their fold, so we'll have to see.

Thanks, Rob. At least it sounds like a classic film festival at Radio City is not a totally dead issue. All we can do is keep our hopes up. To quote Yoda, "Always in motion is the future."

Rob:
Thanks for giving us information about the attendance during the film series held at the Hall. In all of the deal papers we've seen from Cablevision, the Hall is never mentioned as being sold off as part of any future plans, so it's in safe hands for now. I do wish that a programmer with vision (and a budget for the crew!) could coordinate a film series within the Hall's live event schedule.

Pete Apruzzese

Another great story Rob, thanks. However you are wrong about your one and only time in the spotlight, you were ALWAYS in the spotlight at the hall. The stage and projection crew is what made it all the more spectacular. Without your heart and dedication it would just be another night at the movies with a stage show. With people like you around, RCMH will always be "The Showplace of the Nation"

Thanks Vito. I was in the Hall for the first time between my Jr. and Sr. years in H.S. Already hanging around projection booths when I could, I went up to the Third Mezzanine and looked up at the ports and thought, "Boy I wish I could see the inside of that booth!" A Vice-president at the Hall when I told him the story said, "Well that ought to teach you to be careful what you wish for." It really was a dream job that I had to try even though it meant taking a chance leaving Illinois. I was really lucky to be there for 25 years. The stage crew became a family in a very real sense, and really care about the theatre. I worked with two generations, and in some cases now they're in the third generation in some families. Its a very special place!

I was the same way Rob, we used to try and get the two seats next to the control pit (as I clled it), to watch the stage show and then race up to the top mezz to sit directly under the booth to watch the movie. I can still here "hit it" coming from the booth as the 2nd changeover cue went by.
By the way, I don't get into the city much anymore, but thought someday I might go on the tour. Is the tour worth taking? Do they go into the booth?

Vito: I've taken the tour twice and both times they took us into the booth. For some reason they had a 70mm reel from "Around the World in 80 Days" on display, even though I don't think the movie ever played there. We weren't allowed to go on the stage because rehearsals were going on, but when there aren't any I believe access to the stage is part of the tour. Another highlight is a visit to Mr. "Roxy" Rothafel's private apartment. The tour's great - you should love it!

Thanks Bill, that's what I wantd to hear. My next trip to NY will include my long overdue tour of my favorite theatre. I will report what I see.
Rob, I realise now I may have put in an uncomfortable postion to answer if the tour was worth taking. Dumb question to ask an employee of the theatre.

Vito ~ The tour at the Hall is worth taking. As Bill stated, it does depend on what event is in the Hall at the time, but if the theater is dark, you indeed do go onstage during the tour. From my aspect, I have had people tell me that they were disappointed that they couldn't see the organ consoles during the tour - this again depends on the event. For the larger events (award shows, concerts, etc.) the organ consoles are covered by sound. lighting, &/or various other equipment. Bob ~ I was just talking about "Napolean" with my father & his long time friendship with Carmine Coppola. My mother was so taken by the beauty of the love theme that Carmine wrote for the film, that he sent her an original, handwritten score that she still has to this day. I appreciate your kind words about the theater, and it being a family. It is indeed - I started working there with my father when I was ten years old. It was a wonderous place for such a young person (still is). The most enjoyable aspect of working there is, without question, the family/friendships I have had for all this time. It's never a dull moment!

Given the Hall's history, I'm surprised they didn't start with an RKO film festival. That would still be a good idea to try in the future.

I know there is a lot of nostagia surrounding this theatre and it is indeed an impressive building but have you ever watched a movie here?

I saw THE SUNSHINE BOYS, the World Premire of THE ABYSS, and several other screenings in this barn. The acoustics and screen presentation can best be described as appalling. Long live the MUSIC HALL, but for movies give me the megaplex. Without the tacky live shows (camels on ice!)it is rather amazing this place is still standing.

To compare the real palaces around the US to this freak hall is not fair. Movies should never have played here and audiences made that clear. There, I've finally said it.

Response to AlAlvarez: You certainly have a right to your opinion, but the truth is that no other presentation house in the world has ever come close to offering (during its golden years, of course) a film and stage show policy that was as consistantly dedicated to a policy that assured the absolute perfection of execution in every department. Whether it was those professionals working in front of the house or in back, every detail was attended to so that the patron would have as close to a magical and satisfying experience as possible. This regard for the highest standards has never or since been duplicated in any other theater in the world. For many years the Music Hall was the destination for the intelligent and the discriminating and it instilled and fostered in many (particularly children going for the first time) a love for the movie and the stage experience that would last a lifetime. Thank heavens, the glorious Music Hall is still with us.

I for one refuse to dignify ALALvarez's remarks with a responce.

Ron: The Music Hall did do a largely RKO Film Festival when they did their first Art Deco Festival in 1974. I don't remember all of the films we played (Warren will probably have the list), but we did do "King Kong", "She", "Becky Sharp" and at least one of the Rogers/Astaire musicals. I had just started at the Hall, and that was the most film we had ever had in the booth at one time. I remember the Rogers/Astaire picture because the promoter of the Festival was going to have to pay for a print since none existed for distribution at that time. Ginger Rogers offered to loan him her personal print, but it was nitrate. By that time we no longer had nitrate fire rollers on our machines having installed 70mm, and our insurance company said "No"! The promoter went ahead and had a print struck at his personal expense. Fortunately, the festival was a success, since it combined film screenings with a lobby full of booths selling Art Deco memorabilia. The poster became a classic (I still have one), and was actually featured in a couple of movies. Our print of "She" was loaned to us by Raymond Rohauer, who also managed to save a number of Buster Keaton's films. I was told that he virtually kept the film under his bed at night to protect it. He did come up to the booth when we inspected it (with me wearing white gloves -- an impression somewhat mitigated by one of the crew looking over our shoulders with an unlit cigar in his mouth). I said he could have the print back right after the screening, but I guess he was reassured since he said, "Hang onto it. I'll pick it up next week."

Here’s a Program from Dec. ’76. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rchm1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmhslipper.jpg

This was the last show that I had seen at RCMH. (Well, not exactly. In Oct. ’95, I attended a performance of “Riverdance.”) I brought my kids to it, then at ages 6 and 7, and was fairly disappointed. (They were, too.) The film proved mediocre and the stage show threadbare.

In “The Nativity,” baubles, bangles, and swirling lights replaced what Leonidoff had once staged as a dimly lit starry night by a Bethlehem stable. The effect of it—and the rest of the show—came across as static and mechanical, rather like the Christmas display windows at Lord and Taylor, full of gestural action and no real life. “Build the Snowman” was just that: a couple of dozen Victorian mannequins pretending to, um, build a styrofoam snowman. The “All Skating” routine deployed the circular table as a permafrost ice stage for a dozen or so skaters. Barry Busse, a Wagnerian tenor of some distinction who had sung internationally with Leonie Rysanek, trolled Christmas carols. The Rockettes performed their “Wooden Soldiers” routine, one that included none of their high-kicks (I always ached for out-of-towners when they did that, because the visitors missed seeing what the dancers were most famous for doing). The finale offered a stage full of an enormous Tannenbaum. Full, but empty. I never publish negative reviews (almost never, anyway) and will not do so again (at least not often). But this, my last visit to a stage-and-screen show at RCMH, was a special case.

Believe it or not, BoxOfficeBill, that 1976 show was also MY last Christmas show. Wasn't the movie "The Slipper and the Rose" playing with it?

Funny but I remember the show still being very, very good. Hell, it was way better than the crapola show they put on now. On The Nativity scene still rocked then. I know this must be the same show because I clearly remember and can still picture the all skating routing as you mention. Even at a somewhat young age (10) I could tell it was done with a moving stage. But at the age and limited experience, the idean of a stage that moved was incredibly nifty.

I remember this show well. We actually came in midway through the movie and then watched the stage show and the whole movie again. This show was better then some of the ones that followed that looked like high school staging.

In a NY Times ad for 1/31/72 the Music Hall has an ad that seems to me to be a misprint. It says final 3 days to see John Wayne & The Cowboys. It should have read John Wayne in The Cowboys. On the great stage was a show called "......and the indians" starring The Rockettes, The Radio City Ballet Company and Symphony Orchestra.

I think that was part of the promotion for that film. All the ads read "John Wayne & The Cowboys". Wayne had become the ultimate Western icon by that time, so his name could actually become part of the movie's title (like Fellini).

http://www.westernposterpage.com/cowboys1.htm

thanks Bill
I saw this film here and at the drive-in and don't recall that.

The credits of the actual movie didn't say that, I'm sure, but it was in all the print ads and posters.

Here’s a Program from Oct. ’76. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-matter1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-matter2.jpg

This was the next-to-last show that I had seen at RCMH, and I happened upon it as a fluke: a business trip to NYC left me alone for an afternoon, and what better to do than to take in a Liza Minnelli-Ingrid Bergman film directed by Vincente Minnelli, with a stage show at RCMH. Bah. The film was sad enough (but, Ingrid, it was only a movie). The stage show lacked even a spark of life.

For the first time ever at RCMH, I remember hearing the shutters on the spot lights as they clicked on and off: the house held barely a few hundred patrons. And I recall hearing the cable chains clanking as the contour curtain rose and fell—a sound I retained from the half-empty Roxy before it closed in the early 60’s, but never at the Showplace of the Nation. For the “Rhapsody in Blue” finale, the circular table tilted and spun with barely a handful of dancers on it. Another negative review from me, I’m afraid; but this too was a special case: I now knew that the great theater had passed the point of no return.

I also remember those mid-week matinee shows during that time. There were never more than a few hundred people in the audience, and you could tell the end was near. It was very sad.

Thanks for posting your programs, BoxOfficeBill. Even if the movies weren't any good, these programs are something to treasure. You've inspired to look for my old Radio City programs. I think I still have a few from the early '70's somewhere, including "Airport".

Watching the Tony's on Sunday I noticed those four "Horn of Plenty" like devices hanging from the ceiling, two on each side of the stage.
Rob, what the heck are those?

Vito: You've got me. I didn't see the telecast, but they could be scenic pieces or speaker arrays. Lots of things get hung in that area including video screens for image magnification.

I have always loved the steamy 50's film "A Summer Place" and just found out that it opened at the Music Hall in fall of 1959. On stage was something called Fall Frolics.

The telecast was a great way to see the hall, I don't get there as much as I used to.I just wish they would lower and raise that curtain once in a while.

Here’s a Program from August ’74. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-tamarind1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-tamarind2.jpg

Another fluke. On a visit to NYC, my spouse took over the dept stores and our parents took over their grandkids. That left me with the options of a bar-crawl, a library-raid, or hunkering down to some leftover work. On the other hand, how could you go wrong with a Blake Edwards movie starring Julie Andrews? Boy, did I find out. I don’t remember a single act from the stage show. The Corps de Ballet had recently been disbanded, and the Rockettes were reduced from thirty-six to thirty kickers. A fair amount of choral work appears to have taken up the slack. Of course, times were bad in general, with rampant inflation, energy shortages, and political corruption: the day after I saw this show, Richard Nixon resigned from office.

re the may 26 post: did "happiest millionaire" play roadshow in other cities? Yes, and so did the MGM 1960 remake of Cimarron. Played at least the Stanton in Philly hard ticket as well as (if memory serves), the Paramount in Hollywood.

Regarding the final months of the film/stage show era at RCMH. My only visit to RCMH during that era was in May of 1977. The feature was "Smokey and the Bandit": a major box office hit that year although not during its engagement at RCMH, if my experience was any indication. I went to a Friday matinee and there couldn't have been more than several hundred people in the audience. I remember staying for the stage show but don't recall any specifics; it obviously wasn't very memorable.

On a visit to NYC... how could you go wrong with a Blake Edwards movie starring Julie Andrews? Boy, did I find out. ...the day after I saw this show, Richard Nixon resigned from office." (BoxOfficeBill)
****************************

Let me guess: "The Tamarind Seed."

Never mind! I made my post without reading or clicking on the program links, which now I realize mentioned the movie. I guessed the movie based upon the timeframe of the Nixon resignation reference.

Veyoung: "The Happiest Millionaire" played on roadshow at the Boyd Theatre in Philadelphia from Oct. 20, 1967 to Jan. 17, 1968. I attended the Tues. 8:30pm performance on Jan. 2, 1968. Sat in Row AA of the Loge and the tickets were $2.50! I remember it was one of the first times I saw a film at the Boyd that there was considerably more empty seats then occupied ones. Still waiting to hear from you that you can receive the pictures I have to send you!
Dennis-Lancaster

I found my old Music Hall programs, 5 of them. First up is "A Boy Named Charlie Brown":

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/peanuts1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/peanuts2.jpg

The Easter show for 1970, "Airport", in 70mm:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/airport1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/airport2.jpg

"The Out-of-Towners". The Hall was really rocking with laughter at this one:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/oot.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/oot2.jpg

"Butterflies Are Free", featuring Eileen Heckart's Oscar-winning performance:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/free1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/free2.jpg

The last truly great movie to play the Music Hall prior to the 1978 closing:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/fantasia1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/fantasia2.jpg

Thanks Bill for the great memories. I used to save those programs
but no longer have them. I am sure all of us are mentaly transporting ourselves to the great lobby where we would sit and read the programs.

I spent ten of the happiest years of my life at Radio City Music Hall, I started out as an usher worked the exec car and finally the costume dept. I loved it then as I do now.

RCMH's mnanagement ought take more interest in their theatre. The CHRISTMAS SPECTACULAR, not as good and not as religious as it used to be, hauls in the money at $40 to $225; cheaper the 1st 2 days. That's ALL they care about. Very few other shows are booked, the theatre is dark most nights. HIGH CRIME reduced attendance and partly motivated "THE FRENCH CONNECTION" bypass of a downtown first run. The neighborhood opening of this movie was the death warrant of all first run theatres; period. I loved seeing an A+ quality movie plus the stage show dozens of times. What I missed was the time RCMH and the ROXY opened KING KONG plus the stage show Jungle Rhythms, at the same time, two 6,000 seat theatres one block apart, 10 shows a day --- 25c till 1 pm, 55c till 6 pm, 75c evenings exc Sat-Sun. March 1, 1933. BLAME MY MOM AND DAD, I wasn't born till 1938.

"King Kong" opened simultaneously at RCMH and the NEW Roxy (later known as the Center Theatre). The New Roxy seated only 3,700 and should not be confused with the "original" Roxy, which had about the same capacity as RCMH..."The French Connection" was first released in 1971. By that time, mass saturation release was long established in the NYC area. It started in 1962 with United Artists' "Premiere Showcase" concept, although there had been occasional saturations even before that, probably most successfully with David O. Selznick's "Duel in the Sun" and Joseph E. Levine's "Hercules."

Unless the comment from rivjr stating that RCMH is dark most nights is indicative of the 70s, this is simply not true. While many on this site mourn that fact that regularly scheduled films are not shown here anymore, RCMH is usually booked with something virtually every night of the week. I know this because I see the Hall from my office every single day. And when I leave at night, I almost always see a crowd seeing one thing or another. Ok, so it's "Yanni Live" or "Dora the Explorer". But the place seems to me to be used quite a lot. Several NYC colleges also use the place for it's graduations ceremonies as well.

BillHuelbig-- Thanks for the programs. I too saw "Butterflies Are Free" there, but have lost that program and am glad to see it in your post.

I was alone in NYC on a business trip. Following an afternoon of bar-crawling, I tumbled into RCMH upon some sort of atavistic reflex. Quite tipsy, I sat in the front row for the stage show and hoped that a Rockette would kick her tap-shoe into my lap, just as had happened to old geezers in 20C-Fox films two decades earlier (I was all of thirty-years-old at the time, but prematurely grey-haired and fairly depraved, so I felt ripe for the part).

As it happened, the Rockettes performed the final high kicks in their "Hawaiian Heat Wave" number on the narrow walk-way in front of the orchestra pit, and so were as close as possible to my waiting lap. As it also happened, none of them lost a shoe. I stayed for a second stage show hoping against hope for an extra-high punt that would land me some leather. No such luck. I then returned to my bar crawl and to this day do not know what occurred later. It's a wonder I didn't lose more than my program.

You're welcome, BoxOfficeBill. But I couldn't figure out how to make the programs bigger just by clicking on them, the way yours did. And I used Photobucket just like you. Maybe my PC is the cause of the problem? Anyway, thanks for your great story about that particular stage show in August 1972. Stories like that are a big part of what makes Cinema Treasures such a fun site.

I'm trying to determine the approximate date of Dick Leibert's retirement as Chief Organist. His obituary implies that this took place in l971. Yet programmes from later dates still have him listed. Can anyone help with this?

Here’s a Program from May ’73. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-poppins1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-poppins2.jpg

My kids were three and four years old, we were visiting our families in NYC, and my mom wanted to take them to RCMH. I had never seen “Mary Poppins.” So I joined the pack. I will never forget my kids’ amazement upon entering the auditorium. I’d already dragged them to dozens of movies in small theaters on two continents, but they were not prepared for the vast space that encountered them (or they it). Beneath the tall shadowy arches, my hyperactive son stopped short in his tracks, and my fearless daughter stopped altogether, both in awe.

The stage show was the last that I saw with the Corps de Ballet (it was disbanded a year later) and the full line-up of Rockettes (subsequently cut from thirty-six to thirty). Disney augmented the cast with dozens of extras costumed in the Magic Kingdom fashion. My mom loved the show (and well she should have, after shepherding me to dozens of them when I was a kid), and my offspring relived it for months afterward with a 33 1/3 LP recording and comic books of the movie. I don’t think their trips to Disneyland would ever impress them so much.

I actually saw this turkey twice at the Music Hall. The first time with my folks on a Sunday matinee and another as a class trip. The nuns always loved taking us to Radio City. I would sit through it again to be able to see a film with the old stage show there.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/AtLongLastLoveatMusicHall.jpg

BoxOfficeBill I believe the stage show with "Mary Popins" Was called Fifty Happy Years a salute to the fiftieth anniversay

At Long Last Love looked great at the Music Hall. I also saw it there twice. Yeah it wasn't very good and the performances embarrassing. But Cybil was at the height of her beauty and the production design was gorgeous. Definately the best looking new film I saw there in the 70's(well, outside of Airport but I really consider that a 60's film.)
The stage show was one of the worst. I remember people dressed up as bunnies doing stupid things with carrots and the like. I can't imagine what Cybil and Peter thought. The ballet was gone by this time. I think the last decent stage show that I can recall was the Easter show with Mame(ugh.)

Here’s a Program from August ‘67. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-barefoot1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-barefoot2.jpg

This show had broken RCMH’s box-office records to date and so, in the last days of its twelve-week run, I decided to see what all the fuss was about. The exuberance of both the screen and stage fare pulverized my skepticism—it provided a real bounce, a spirited lift-me-up, a tiramisù. Iris Bala was a soprano with the NY City Opera, and the Alcettys composed a German acrobat team, but it was the athleticism of the Cowboy Ballet—a fleet and funny crowd pleaser—that really wowed me. Great stuff.

It’s a nice touch that Programs in the late ‘60s provided the name of the Head Projectionist, a detail that I don’t recall from those of earlier or subsequent periods.

Thanks BOB for the "Barefoot in the Park" program. I saw it there in 1967 also, but I lost my program over the years. Do you have the one for "The Odd Couple" as well?

Bill Huelbig-- I missed seeing that one, there or anywhere. Over the next year, I'll post on this site whatever I've got.

Barefoot in the Park is one of those bright technicolor New York 60's comedies that I would have given anything to see at the Hall.
Redford and Fonda are talented and sexy beyond belief. Glad to hear the stage show was good too. Others I wish I had seen there are How to Succeed and the Odd Couple.
The success though of Barefoot seems to have precipitated the strike that occurred shortly after the opening of Up the Down Staircase in August. Reducing the stage show to just the symphony orchestra and singers from what I gather. At least the Hall had one good movie left for the year in Wait Until Dark.
Then the Hall had only two good movies in '68- Odd Couple and Bullitt and one in '69- True Grit. Goodbye you wonderful old Hollywood Studio era.

Intersting stuff above. "Barefoot in the Park" is a classic. It's amazing how often it's shown on TV (I have one of those cable systems with what appears to be 500 channels and my wife and I joke around that it's like there's a "Barefoot in the Park" channel...all Barefoot, 24 hours a day...it's on that much). Great movie...should never, EVER be remade. The original too's perfect.

Question: what was the last genuine hit film to play at the Hall? Was it "The Odd Couple"?

I think "Airport" in 1970 may have been the last really big hit to
play the Hall. I believe "Scrooge" did really well there too, later that year.

When I worked there in '76 a ticket seller(she had worked the Strand during The Sea Hawk which she said was intense) told me that Odd Couple was the last film where the work was non stop. One of the old gentlemen(he had been a Roxy usher-his photo is in the Best Remaining Seats where all the ushers are on stage) said there were as many people the last day of the run as on the first.

Radio City had the distinction of being the only theatre showing this in color. Video projection was still in its infancy.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/AliVSFrasier.jpg

Here is a teaser ad from when "Where the Boys Are" was about to open at the Music Hall.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/WheretheBoysAreRadioCityMusicHall.jpg

I'm sorry I never saw this at the Music Hall the Cinemascope must have been very flattering to both Mrs Burton and The Big Sur locations.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/SandpiperatMusicHall.jpg

I may be the only one, but I enjoyed this movie and stage show and went back to see it a second time
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/MagicofLassie.jpg

I remember this from Christmas of 1977
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/PetesDragonatMusicHall.jpg

If you grew up in NY you have fond memories of Radio City. The Music Hall wasn't always surrounded by the office buildings that shadow it today. In the 60's if you didn't pay top dollar , Balcony, you might have to wait several hours for admisssion to the Christmas or Easter shows. If it was very cold my dad would run across with one of the kids to Horn & Hardarts or Whelan Drugs to get a hot chocolate. Big films I remeber waiting on line for - don't laugh - "Airport". "That Darn Cat", "Follow Me Boys", "True Grit", and "the Cowboys". The last movie with John Wayne is the last I remember seeing at the Music Hall. For the trivia buffs, "Cowboys" is one of the few films the Duke dies in at the end.

Regarding major hits in the final years of the stage/show program at RCMH: I remember ads for "The Sunshine Boys" in the NY Times promoting it as the biggest hit in the history of RCMH. "The Sunshine Boys" was, I believe, RCMH's Christmas attraction in 1975.

"The Sandpiper" was in Panavision, NOT CinemaScope.

Most anamorphic (squeezed-image) wide-screen processes tend to be referred to as CinemaScope or 'Scope by film-buffs. I do it all the time. I admit it's not precise, but it suggests to the user a generic characteristic, as do the words Kleenex or Xerox...whether the tissue is really a Kleenex or not or the copier is in fact made by Xerox.

Or whether the lens is made by Bausch and Lomb or by Panavision!

Thanks Gerald, all the years I worked in the biz we called it Cinemascope no matter which process it was filmed in. SHESH

Ok guys it's time for the old man to have his say.
In November of 1952, "Bwana Devil", the first commercial 3-D movie opened. That's when we started calling 2-D films "Flat".
Then in September 1953, CinemaScope came along and things got a little interesting, not everyone played "The Robe" in CinemaScope, there was a Flat version as well. We started labeling all
non-anamorphic prints flat, and all anamorphic prints scope, and it is still that way today. In the booth there was (is) no Panavision, Technorama, WarnerScope or what have you, every anamorphic print is scope, plan and simple. The only variation in the 50s was SuperScope
which required a different aperature plate, we labled those
RKO-scope. Some of the B'way houses filed special aperature plates and set maskings for some of the different anamorphic processes, but it was still Scope. Rob Endres, anything to add?

In her autobiography The Gift Horse, German-born actress Hildegard Knef recalls her arrival in and time spent in the United States shortly after World War II and being offered a Hollywood studio contract. Here she describes a visit to what must have been Radio City Music Hall:

"The packed movie house is a cross between the public baths and a set for an operetta, between a temple and a railway station; in the balcony they're making love, smoking, and chewing brown-white balloons of absorbent cotton from cardboard cartons; they run in and out during the film, during the stage show, whistle like crazy when the chorus girls kick their legs, jitterbug in the aisles; girls with mottled frozen legs sticking out of tennis shoes and white ankle socks squeak and faint, crawl about among the flower boxes on the front of the stage, cry with the crooner who's singing something in Spanish. Now there's a preview: a bulldog face bursting out of a German officer's uniform barks orders in English; behind him there's a swastika hanging the wrong way round; on comes a soldier in an SS jacket and an SA cap, clicks his heels and yells 'Donner and Blitzen,' 'Jawoll!' and 'Heil die Führer!' The reclining couples break apart and join the stalls in a chorus of boos."

I suspect that the theatre described by Knef was the Roxy and not RCMH. She was a keen observer, and I doubt that the modernistic RCMH would have impressed her as a "cross between the public baths and a set for an operetta." Also, RCMH did not have a conventional balcony. It had three shallow mezzanines stacked above each other. Also, RCMH did not sell candy in those days. Also, the crooner singing in Spanish might have been Carl Ravazza, who emceed the Roxy stage shows. Also, RCMH audiences tended to be much more reserved than those at the Roxy. I never saw patrons making love at RCMH, though I suppose some did it discreetly.

You could be absolutely right. It was just my first reaction. I wish she had named the place. It's an evocative description, though, and I may re-post it on the Roxy page.

Vito: You're right -- we (at least those of us who have been around for a while) refer to anything non-anamorphic as "Flat" and anamorphic prints as "Scope". That terminology has even been carried over to film cans and leaders in many cases. I did want to add to one of your comments about single strip 3-D made on one of the other theatre sites. There were two kinds of single strip 3-D films in wide release. You mentioned the "over/under" variation used for wide aspect ratio films such as "Andy Warhol's Frankenstein" and Arch Obler's "The Bubble". (Talk about blurring distinctions: even though those films had an aspect ratio similar to "Scope" technically they were flat.) The 3-D attachment superimposed the upper two-perf portion of the image over the bottom portion. With films made in the 1.37 ratio such as "House of Wax" and "The Stewardesses" the image, although "Flat" was actually two anamorphic images side by side with a slightly reduced frame height on the film. The 3-D attachment was in line with the anamorphic lens and put one of the images over the other. The 70mm 3-D release of "House of Wax" wouldn't have been anamorphic since there was room on the frame to put to "Flat" images side by side. Sure gets confusing doesn't it?

Yes Warren I would agree, it had to be the Roxy. Nothing Knef said, other than the chorus girls kicking, sounded like RCMH.

Rob, confusing does not even begin to describe it. Thanks for that info, I had forgotten about the side by side version. Although the frame lines on the "over/under" prints were fairly easy to distinguish, I heard of projectionists making splicing errors using the thin frame line between left eye / right eye and the actual frame line. I also remember the alignment of the two images was made easy by a loop we would run that would guide us through the superimposing of the left/right image by the turn of two thumbscrews on the 3-D attachment lens. I always thought the poloroid 3-D single print looked pretty good. I also remember the two print version of the 50s which was quite a bit better of course, that was also my first experience with 6k reels. There were however a lot of problems with the interlocking and print damage (safety film ya gotta love it)
Audiences got tired of the glasses and projection problems and so
3-D did not last very long. That red and green 3-D you see now and then today (spy kids) is dreadful, but I like the 70mm IMAX 3-D. Have you seen that baby in action?, two platters feeding the two 3-D prints to the IMAX projector at high speed is very scary to see.

Vito: As the expession goes: "Everything old is new again". The success of IMAX 3-D is reviving the process. Last week Disney, Dolby and ILM announced that they will be installing digital 3-D in 100 theatres for the release of "Chicken Little" in November, and Lucas has announced plans to re-release the "Star Wars" series in 3-D. Check last Sunday's "Arts & Leisure" section of the New York Times for a front page article on some of the new 3-D projects in the works. I guess if we stick around long enough we meet our past coming back to greet us!

Now that I've read Knef's description again, I believe more strongly that it was the Roxy. I suspect that Knef's visit was during the Roxy's run of "The Razor's Edge," which opened (with stage show) on November 19, 1946. The trailer with Nazis that Knef saw was probably for "13 Rue Madeleine," a WWII espionage thriller with James Cagney, which followed "Razor's Edge" into the Roxy.

Oh and how Rob, remeinds me of the fab 50s when we had a new projection toy to play with every other month or so.
As for IMAX, it sure is catching on, especially with the new
DMR (digital remastering technology, now any movie can be converted to IMAX.) Warners has really taken that ball and run with it, audiences are eating up the IMAX version of "Batman Begins" and the new "Harry Potter" will open in IMAX in November. I did not know Lucas had decided tp take the IMAX plunge, I remember hearing talk about it but nothing concreate, that's good news! We also have a new exciting IMAX 3-D projesct opening in September called, Magnificent
Desolation: Walking on the Moon" with never before seen NASA footage.
So if all good things from the past come back to greet us, when can we look forward to the return of movies and a stage show at RCMH?
Yeah I know, times have changed and that would not work anymore.
But I had to say it anyway :))

Well if you had a few months of the same stage show with changing films shown in Imax it could work. However you would need another Leonidoff to produce the stage show and I don't think there is a person in the business today who knows how to properly utilize the Hall with its own specific characteristics. It is treated as if it were simply the theater at Madison Square Garden or another concert venue. When I see photos of the auditorium now with those speakers hanging down its stomach churning. And the amazing thing is all they do is just make the music louder!

In the excerpt quoted by Gerald A. DeLuca in his July 6th post (above), I wonder if Hildegrad Knef is describing a visit to the Paramount Theater (on Broadway and 43rd) instead of either the Roxy or Radio City Music Hall?

The reason the Paramount comes to mind is I was just reading about Benny Goodman's engagement at the Paramount the other day (I forget the name of the book or the website) and what was striking about the description was how "wild" and uninhibited the audiences seemed to be. If I remember correctly -- and if the description is to be believed -- people were yelling all throughout the concert, dancing in the aisles and even occasionally dancing on the stage!

I wonder if the various mid-Manhattan theaters each had, to a certain degree, their own personalities -- or, at least, if a theater's architectural design, its facilities, the policies of its management, and the kind of shows that were presented in it, when added all together, attracted certain kinds of audiences and elicited certain kinds of behavior?

It also seems to me that the interior of the Paramount as much as the Roxy could be accurately described as "a cross between the public baths and a set for an operetta, between a temple and a railway station . . . . "

(If I can find again what I read about Benny Goodman's engagement at the Paramount, I will post it to the Paramount Theater page of Cinema Treasures. This description really makes it sound amazing.)

Very good point Benjamin, I forgot about the magnificent Paramount, and yes it would fit that bill. Warren, any thoughts?

Well I saw Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall in the 80's and the above description bears no relation at all to that audience.

P.S. -- One wrinkle, however, is I wonder if any of the Paramount stage shows actually included any chorus girls? I got the impression that during Benny Goodman's engagement, at least, the performance of the Goodman band was the entire stage show portion of the bill.

But the audiences certainly did seem sufficiently rambunctious!

Vincent, I am not so sure I agree, the bobby soxers of the 40s most certainly danced in the aisles at the Paramount for Benny and screamed up and down the aisles for Frank Sinatra. I think the 80s Carnegie Hall crowd was more subdued, not so much however at the 1938 concert.

Like Benjamin, I find a teasing hint of the Paramount in Knef's description: for me, it's the reference to flower boxes, which the Paramount had and prominently displayed every Spring in its annual "flower show" (which usually extended over the season through the runs of several films). But there were no chorus girls at the Paramount, nor at the Strand or Capitol. In any case, any of those three were more raucous than the Roxy. Still, the Roxy had the dancing Roxyettes. Did Carl Ravazza croon Spanish songs? Knef changed her name to Neff and did a few films for 20C-Fox, no? That connection points to the Roxy. For me, that's 'nuf about Neff.

The Paramount did not have a corps of dancing girls...Carl Ravazza was a Latin American singer who also emceed the Roxy stage shows...Knef says the USA trip took place in 1946, shortly after the Berlin premiere of her German movie, "Film Without a Name" (aka "Murderers Among Us").

Right about HAPPIEST MILLIONAIRE being road-shown. Worked as a film booker in San Francisco and I had to go back and track weekly grosses at the local United Artists Theatre Circuit for SOUND OF MUSIC which Disney would be comparing. lol..We opened MILLIONAIRE at the conclusion of MUSIC and it ran three weeks as a road-show. Then it was trimmed by 20 some odd minuets, a new print was shipped up and we replaced the road show version with it. It then ran on a CONTINUOUS basis for another couple of weeks and finally died. So much for copying by hand (before computers, mind you) all theose weekly grosses. All for naught....

An important scene in the horror classic "Rosemary's Baby" was shot across the street from Radio City Music Hall during the run of "The Happiest Millionaire". You can see Tommy Steele's name on the marquee. Sad that such a dud movie was the last one Walt Disney personally produced before his death.

Test image of "Airport" program - hopefully it will look better than the earlier images I posted:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/airport3.jpg

The Happiest Millionaire might not have been a success but it was the best Christmas movie I saw at the Hall. I saw most of them from this point on and from production design alone it was the best looking on that screen(also that great looking 60's technicolor which was about to turn to the grainy washed out color of the 70's.)
From this point on they were all turkeys(except for Scrooge but the blow up 70 mm print left al ot to be desired.)
Even before that you'd have to go back to The Sundowners to find a good proper Christmas film for the Hall.

Here’s a Program from March ‘67. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-succeed1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-succeed2.jpg

At the time, I was pursuing the shelf-contents through a trail of libraries that stretched from Morningside Heights to Washington Square. One balmy Spring morning, bound on the subway toward the NYPL, I alighted at 50 Street intending to walk eastwards to Fifth and then down that sunny avenue to 42 Street. Compulsion drove me to the box-office of RCMH and then into the theater’s deep, dark recesses for the day’s first show.

I hadn’t particularly wanted to see the film or the stage review (it proved to be the last Easter show I’d see there), but once inside, I fell under their spell. In addition to the cathedral pageant, the live production offered the theater’s classic Cherry Blossom ballet and a fabulous rainstorm-water finale. That afternoon, having greeted the Twin Lions and become deeply immersed in decipherment, I couldn’t erase the energizing glow from the morning’s entertainment. I had played hooky for a few hours, but the pay-back more than made up for it. It had been a great show.

In February of 1963 To Kill a Mockingbird was playing here:
http://medialit.med.sc.edu/newyorkertkamad.gif

Father Goose was the 1966 Christmas Show
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/FatherGoose.jpg

lostmemory: The ad for "Mockingbird" from the New Yorker is appropriate, since during its run at RCMH all NYC newspapers were on strike and there is no record of newspaper ads for it. My post on "Mockingbird" will follow in a couple of weeks.

RobertR: That ad for "Father Goose" (Christmas '64, not '66) must have been printed in late January '65. When RCMH held over its Christmas film past mid-Jan., it dropped the Nativity section from its stage show (while unseasonably retaining the rest). The bit of "Marriage Italian Style" at the bottom of your post portends RCMH's bookings of Sophia Loren's next three films: "Operation Crossbow," "Judith," and "Arabesque" (and of "Sunflower" later on).

The post above with the playbill for the 1978 re-release of "Fantasia" lists "Matilda" as the next attraction. I'm embaressed to admit I saw that there. OMG, that film is so bad I don't think it ever came out on video and I don't even recall it being on TV. The great Robert Mitchums lowest moment.

The post above with the playbill for the 1978 re-release of "Fantasia" lists "Matilda" as the next attraction. I'm embarassed to admit I saw that there. OMG, that film is so bad I don't think it ever came out on video and I don't even recall it being on TV. The great Robert Mitchums lowest moment.

Operation Crossbow is another one of those holiday films where I wonder what the Hall was thinking. It's a pretty brutal violent WW 2 movie(in fact it should not even have been booked for the Hall at all.)This was the Easter 65 film with Sound of Music playing down the block at the Rivoli.
I saw the coming attractions for Matilda when I went to Fantasia. It looked unwatchable. I guess it was as bad as I thought.

They had a man in a kangaroo suit, need I say more LOL. Actually if you see stills from the some of the scenes it might have scared young kids because it looked so demented. The hall played a few AIP films around that time didn't it? I remember seeing "Matter of Time" there also.

A Matter of Time was a low point for all involved, Vincente, Liza and Ingrid. Jeez, it looked like crap and the story was weak. I'm surprised they didn't bring in the wrecking ball during its engagement. I'm sure they wouldn't have hit any non-existent patrons.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before or not, but the architect listed for this theater is Edward Durell Stone. Donald Deskey is credited with the interior. There are some nice photos of RCMH at this site:
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID061.htm

"Matilda"? The boxing kangaroo movie? A pretty good example of where the Hall was circa 1978.

CConnolly
Check this out
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077917/

Here is the poster
http://www.thecinematrade.com/images/stockpaper/gallerym/matilda7.htm

The producer of "Matilda" is also the producer of last year's Oscar-winning Best Picture, "Million Dollar Baby". He also produced "The Godfather" in 1972. I guess 1978 was an off year for him.

Truly awful Music Hall movies started creeping up with some regularity in the late 60's with films like The Bobo, Sweet November, and The Impossible Years. But maybe the lowest point was See No Evil in 71. A low budget, very bloody, slasher flic which had no reason being at the Hall and should have opened on a double bill on 42nd ST.

Here's the opening day ad for the original "King Kong":
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/125-2504_IMG.jpg

Warren Thank You that was great!!!

On June 15, 2005, RCMH grossed $380,586 with a single performance of a double bill with Alanis Morisette and Jason Mraz. Billboard Magazine described it as a "sell-out," with 5,967 tickets purchased. They were priced at $74.50, $64.50, and $54.50. Has RCMH added 27 seats since the introduction to this listing was written?

If the Music Hall were to reinstate its film stageshow policy at todays movie prices and to sell out all performances 4 times a day it would gross $1,746,360.00 a week which would be an improvement over the $200,000 it would gross a week in the 70's. Though I believe 2001 grossed less than $100,000 for its one week run.

Yes, but what would RCMH have to pay each week for film rental and for all the employees required, including stage peformers and musicians, technicians, and house staff? Then there's also the cost of scenery, costumes, etcetera. I doubt that $1.7 million would even cover it all.

There's no audience for a stage show and a movie now days. But...if the Hall could play a movie exclusively for a couple of weeks, then you would have people going there.

Subtract payment to the film company (approx. 75%) and they'd be left with $436,590 - subtract payroll, utilities, taxes, etc. and I'd guess they'd lose money at the end of the week, especially since there is no way they'd sell out 4 shows a day with the current studio release patterns.

Besides, what movie out of the ones they're making today would be good enough to attract that many people to the Hall? Maybe the new "King Kong" could do it? I'm hoping the premiere of the movie is held at Radio City, and that the public is able to attend. Kong will have come full-circle from 1933 to 2005.

The Music Hall paid much less than that to the film company(after all it is a prestige booking. You get to use in your advertising that it played the Hall.)
Also I don't believe they paid very much to the staff and performers(what I did for love as they say in ACL.)
I believe at the end of Snow White's run Variety reported that on a 5 week $550,000 gross Disney got $150,000.
Mike Igers should be happy with that today.

There is one real pic of the hall in here from 1934
http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/usa/usa_nyc_radiocity.htm

Rockettes in 2003
http://www.christithomas.com/images/MVC-013F11.jpg

There is a tiny pic when they desicrated the great stage by playing basketball there
http://www.gothamist.com/sports/images/2004_05_sradiocity.jpg

Thanks, Robert. I especially like the picture from 1959. I can't read the letters on the marquee, but I like to think that either "North by Northwest" or "The Nun's Story" was playing that day.

Here’s a Program from June ‘66. If you want to read the fine print, after you click on the URL you must click the image itself so that it enlarges on your screen. I’m sorry that a print-out won’t be so clear.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-arabesque1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-arabesque2.jpg

The stage and screen fare listed here delivered the theater’s typically high-class full-entertainment package. The live portion concluded with the celebrated fireworks effect.

Another stylish show from the period accompanied “How to Steal a Million” the following August. I’ve lost the program for it, but I remember that the Purdue University Band performed in the theater’s aisles and that a lavish re-enactment of the battle of Iwo Jima constituted the finale. I also remember that my date and I were sitting in my favorite seats at RCMH: in the row on the left-side cross-aisle, so as to have an unobstructed view of the stage and screen. My mom had discovered the advantages of these seats when I was a kid and prone to interference from grown-up heads in front of us. As an adult, I favored these seats so that I could stretch my long legs in full comfort. When the Purdue University Band began its march across the aisle, I thought fractionally of tripping up the tuba player for devilment when he passed, but I withdrew the idea for fear of being ejected from the theater before viewing Audrey Hepburn on the screen. Still, if we had happened to see the movie before the stage show, well then...

This program is the last in my collection with the old cursive “Showplace” logo and the majuscule RCMH name.

The New York Times rarely discussed the stage show when reviewing a Music Hall film but I believe Bosley Crowthers singled out the Iwo Jima finale as being sensational. Though today its hard to imagine what the staging for such a thing might be.

Just got back from seeing The Moody Blues at Radio City. They put on their usual fine show, but even if the show was lousy it would've been enough just to be in the Hall again ...

The Rockettes even put in an appearance. Only two of them, but two Rockettes are better than none. They got a great ovation when they did their high kicks with Moody Blues drummer Graeme Edge.

>> The last fillm to play there was "The Promise", starring Kathleen Quinlan.
posted by RobertR on Jan 9, 2004 at 2:51pm <<

That was also the last time stage shows were presented with the Rockettes BETWEEN feature films. A bad movie, which I sat through three times to see the stage shows as at the time it appeared the theater was doomed and finished. But many people, including then Lt Gov of NYS, Mary Anne Krupsak, organized and saved the landmark. I can still hear the theme song of "The Promise" echoing in my head! Ugh.

I was at the concert also. Is the projection equipment still installed? I was in the 3rd mezz. but I could not see thru the projection slots. I remember seeing "Gone With The Wind" there in 1989 and that was after the change-over.

I'm pretty sure the projectors are still installed. I'm basing this on a Radio City tour I took around 4 years ago, but I know they still show movies as premieres and special events from time to time ("West Side Story"'s 40th anniversary which was not open to the public, "Harry Potter").

How typically idiotic of Radio City not to have had recently a gala showing of King Kong with Fay Wray in attendance. The place would have been packed. She died only very recently and I saw her twice not that long ago at Film Forum. That was a real thrill sitting near her watching her watch herself in a film made by Stroheim in the 20's. Mind blowing.
I should have asked her if she enjoyed Jungle Rhythms.

The projectors are definitely still there. Two of the three 35/70mm machines now have 7,000 watt xenon lamphouses for projection of the opening 70mm 3-D sequence in the Christmas Show, and the two 35mm machines have upgraded lamphouses installed. Most motion-picture premieres these days are done with digital projection rather than film (as they increasingly are everywhere else).

I saw Fay Wray at that screening also. I was told recently that had Fay lived she was going to appear in the last scene of the King Kong remake that is being filmed now. Maybe that film could be premiered at Radio City like the original was. I would pay extra to see that.

Rob, a couple of questions if I may, regarding the 70mm 3-D sequence, Are both projectors running interlock or is the left/right image on one print. Also, What is the wattage on the 35mm lamphouses.
Lastly, when you run digital prints, where is the projector located?
and does RCMH have it's own digital projector(s) Thanks

As a New Yorker, I have only been to RCMH 4 times in my entire life. The first time when I was about 11, I went with my mother to see "The Unsinkable Molly Brown" a musical with Debby Reynolds and the stage show. I had to "GO Potty" during the movie, but I was afraid to leave my seat due to the overwhelming size of it. An usher showed me the way. I think it was on the second floor. The next time I wenr was in 1975 with "the crowd" to see GWTW. When blown up to 70mm for the huge screen, it looked like all the color was washed out of it. I did not enjoy it. The third time was in 1981 when the Grateful Dead did a 12 or 13 show stint. I( really did not care about theaters too much then, but the Dead, who played for almost 6 hours were teriffic!The last time was in 1995 for the X Mas show. I difd this with my mother, brother and sister-in-law. Enjoyed the show, but for the first time I really got to see the theater for what it is, and it made an impression on me that I will NEVER forget! Hope to go back soon.

I can empathize with Theaterat concerning the size of the Music Hall when you're a little kid. I first went when I was 7. My family always sat in the third mezzanine. We took the elevator up and walked down when the show was over. I can recall thinking the stairs going down were never going to end - whenever we got to the bottom of one huge staircase, there was always another one just around the corner. This was not a complaint, mind you - I thought it was fun.

Here's another "King Kong" ad, this one marked "TOMORROW" and larger than the one for opening day:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/125-2506_IMG.jpg

Wow, these comments hve spilled over to another page...I think!

I saw this in 1971 and for some strange reason can't recall a thing about this version?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/WutheringHeights.jpg

The reason why you probably cannot recall anything about this version is that it was very boring. This came right after the mediocre Promise at Dawn to be followed by a not very funny A New Leaf.
The stage show A Southern Medley had a sensational Rockette number called Bayou Rhythym and I'd sit through the whole thing all over again just to see it. This was also done with the film Picnic and unfortunately is lost to the ages. Why the current management of the Rockettes doesn't insure the preservation of these routines is beyond me.

Leon Leonidoff used to film his shows i would love to see some of them. As for the new management i don't believe they have any intrest or even care about the great history of the music hall

Warren Thanks again, Have you seen the trailer for the new "King Kong" It looks good. I wonder if any one will have the brains to have the premier at the Music Hall,Wait we are talking about mnangement so i guess the answere will be no. Thanks again for the ad.

July 12,1955 the Music Hall was playing "Love Me Or Leave Me" and advertising it's next attraction "Mr. Roberts"
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/MisterRoberts.jpg

Universal presents KING KONG. World Premiere Monday, 12 December 2005. Regular performances start Wednesday, 14 December 2005.
http://www.kingkongmovie.com/ef239524432ba87f1ca8f70eed4b1fa7/en_splash.html

Another great ad from RobertR. Besides the two-in-a-row Cagney classics at the Music Hall, two of my all-time favorite movies were playing in town at the same time: "Marty" and "Summertime". I loved critic Wanda Hale's quote at the top of the ad for "The Shrike": "June Allyson plays an unsympathetic role with such conviction that you'd like to strangle her."

Vito: The 3-D projection for the Christmas Show is with two 70mm projectors, interlocked and running at 30fps. Digital projection has been done from the front of the First Mezzanine with two projectors (one for backup) and the sound routed up to the booth and run through the cinema sound system. I left the Hall in 2000 to work for the company I'm working for now, but our technicians are in for premieres and special events, and I wander over every once in a while also to say, "Hi!" to my Music Hall "family". Boston Light & Sound supplied the lamphouses, so I'll have to check with their rep about the 35mm wattages since I frequently have dinner with him when he's in town.
I did get a chance to see some of Leon Leonidoff's 16mm footage of the stage shows. After he left he wrote asking me to send it to him, but at the time the case containing his film was in a jumble with the rest of our film library in the area behind the screen in our large screening room, and I didn't know what I was looking for. When the 50th Anniversary Show came along, I found it and sent it along with other archival footage to California where it was incorporated into the multiple screen montage sequences projected during the show. Unfortunately, the producer of those sequences returned the footage in small chunks and I was never able to piece it back together. Leon did have color footage of "Rhapsody In Blue" and "Bolero" which looked pretty good considering the limitations of the stage lighting and 16mm film at the time. I've always felt badly that I didn't realize that footage was what he was looking for and return it to him before his death.

It's amazing how so much can be said about one theater!!

Well Bill, that's because it is an amazing theatre. I am always happy when a new thread is posted here, I can't get enough info about this magnificent hall. A special thanks to REendres for all his contributions.

Only 5 more posts, and Radio City Music Hall will be the first theater to break the 1,000 comments barrier. It really is the Showplace of the Nation, and I hope it will be for many years to come.

Does anyone remember the "Easter Sunrise Services" that were held annually at RCMH on Easter Sunday for many decades? They were inter-denominational, and included the religious portion of the Easter stage show. Admision was free, but the service started around 6AM, so you had to arrive there about 3AM to make sure that you were one of the 6,000 that got in.

I was there for what I remember as the last one they did in 1974. The most impressive thing for me was the start when a "sunrise" was created in house. Since Roxy was said to get his inspriation for the coves from a sunrise while he was on a cruise, the Easter "sunrise" was a natural with the house going dark, and then blue lights in the grilles, followed by the coves gradually coming up in blue as the grilles went to red, then red and blue lighting in the house with amber in the grilles, and then finally full amber house lighting accompanied with organ chimes. I saw it from the booth, and for anyone seated where they could see the full view of the house it looked great! I'm glad I got to see it at least once.

Here is the flyer for the 1996 WB Classic Film Festival at the Hall:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/wb1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/wb2.jpg

I remember hearing a story that john jackson had an idea for a piece of scenery he wanted to use in a show that he was going to produce in the near future Well being as clever as he was he convinced leon leonidorff that he should build this piece of scenery for his next show, leon did build it when the show was done it was stored in the harlem warehouse. When john did his show he used the scenery that he convinced leon to build and saved a couple of thousand dollars on his budget. maybe renders knows this story and can verify it

Anyone who visits NYC should make a point of taking the backstage tour they have there. They take you onstage, and upstairs to Roxy's private apartment. You'll even get to meet a Rockette!

While I don't know about John getting a piece of scenery from Leon, I do know that Leon got a piece of scenery out of Japan. Leon did a show at the World's Fair, and got Japan to present New York with a beautiful, HUGE Doncho drop of woven silk. The story is that Leon specified the size, and after the World's Fair was over the only place in New York with the space to hang it was the Hall. It hung there all during the time I was there and was used in several shows including the 50th Anniversary show. It's so heavy it takes two pipes to support it, and was too large to move to the Harlem warehouse. Several of the Music Hall souvenier programs from the '50's on featured a centerfold color shot of the Rockettes with the Doncho drop in the background. If John scammed a scenic piece out of Leon it could be that he had learned from the master!

So do any of these films of the stage shows still exist or any of the old sets or are they all gone forever?
I assume the Nativity is gone and I know that somebody used the Rhapsody in Blue revolving disc to build an extension on his house.
I certainly would love to see films of all the big set pieces like the Bolero, Undersea Ballet, the Burning of Nome, Court of Jewels, Voyage of the Vikings etc.

Bill scored the 1000th post to this theater. Is that a record?

Bill got the 1,000th post. Is that a record?

The 1996 film festival was great. I wish they would do it again. I've emailed them several times, but never got a response.

Filmwise I recall seeing 'How Sweet It Is', 'Mame' and 'The Love Bug' here.

Is this the lounge of the Music Hall?
http://www.gothamist.com/arts/images/2004_09_artsushers-thumb.jpg

I recall 'Mame', 'The Love Bug' and 'How Sweet It Is' here.

I looked through my old Variety clippings and found mostly reviews and ads, but I did find one page of NYC grosses, including the Music Hall. Unfortunately it was for one of the Music Hall's worst bombs ever. The date is March 9, 1977. "Star Wars" was a little more than 2 months away.

Variety could display showmanship even in these box-office reports. There are all kinds of witty asides and funny in-jokes here (e.g. "Barbra and subordinates eye $375,000", a theater that switched to showing porn going "the way of all flesh", etc.)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses4.jpg

Here is an ad for the often mentioned Art Deco Expo.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/RCMHArtDecoExpo.jpg

How does one read the postings after the one of 7/21/05 by dwodeyla? When I hit "next page," I just get this same page over again.

Theater pages were originally limited to 1000 comments per theater... so that's why you weren't seeing new comments, Warren.

We've removed the limit, though, so discussion can now continue...

Enjoy!

Thanks Bob Yes the doncho curtain is beautiful. I never heard that stary so again Thanks. I don't know if you will remember me my name is Frank Devlin

There are two programs from RCMH that I regret having misplaced over the years. The first was for “Breakfast at Tiffany’s,” which I remember seeing in a packed house one Friday evening in October ’61 after a day of undergrad classes. I found it immensely enjoyable even though it strayed from the novel that had drawn me into a great cult-following at the time. I always thought that I could have done a terrific job playing the part of “Paul/FredBaby,” since I shared that character’s writerly aspirations and was, through similar experiences, depraved beyond my years. I’ll never forget the gasp from 5,900 viewers when George Peppard first opened his closet, and have been trying to build a wardrobe like that since then. Mickey Rooney gave us a deplorable Mr. Yunioshi, but the ambience of Bohemian-luxe NYC life seemed just right for the era (though I’d never known a NYC 5&10 store to look like the one they stole the masks from, and the interiors of Tiffany’s and the NYPL were clearly H’wood sets). Here’s the NY Times’s opening day ad to substitute for my lost program:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-tiffanys.jpg

The other program would have been for “To Kill a Mockingbird,” which I remember seeing on a Friday evening in the middle of March ’63. As it happened, it was my first date with my now wife, so there was double reason to save the program. After martinis and some supper on the East Side (or was it beer and hot dogs in Yorkville?) we hopped onto the subway for the last stage show, which usually began around 9:30 pm. Upon reaching 50 Street, we joined a line that stretched around the block. The top-coated ushers were barking, “The last stage show has already begun; tickets are now on sale for the final showing of the movie only.” Who cared? When we reached the box-office forty-five minutes later, the ushers were barking, “The final showing of the movie has begun; there is some seating in the side rear sections only.” Who cared? The result is that we missed both the stage show and the film’s opening credits; and the seats were so far from the screen that the latter looked like a small TV tube. Who cared? Here’s the NY Times’s review of the film by Bosley Crowther:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-mockingbird.jpg

NYC newspapers had been on strike since the previous December, but the Times has archived its West Coast edition, from which I’ve drawn the above. For greater legibility, here’s a blow-up of the review itself, spliced onto an account in “Variety” of the stage show that we missed seeing (there’s no other record of it in the NYC press):

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/mockingbird.jpg

The clip from “Variety” (20 Feb. ’63, p. 62) offers a good example of that paper’s over-the-top style (its writers seemed too crazed to go on strike with the rest): “male climbs the ladder … for okay balancing;” the “finale, a scene in Venice, … never happened to a doge.” I’m only sorry we missed the aria from “Barber of Seville” that Lorna Ceniceros so colorfully coloratured. As for Crowther’s critique, it’s grotesquely out of joint (even the headline misstates his argument): it lauds the kids’ performances (Mary Badham is the sister of John Badham, no?), ignores Robert Duvall’s astonishing début, and dismisses the racial conflict at the heart of the story as a “conventional” melodramatic distraction.

For all that, five months later we traveled to DC for Martin Luther King’s March on Washington, 28 Aug. ‘63. On the evening of this historic day, I was nearly killed by Robert Kennedy when, in front of the White House, his chauffered limo loomed out of nowhere and swept through the parting gates, brushing my belt buckle as it passed. I’ll never forget the grin on RFK’s face in response to my startled affront. Imagine the headlines if his car had mowed me down: “RFK kills student after march… Kinship denied…Student’s political passions had been galvanized by show at RCMH….”

Those packed houses in the evening that BOB talks about I can't even imagine. And they weren't even holiday shows! Boy had things changed by the 70's.
I found a program for Feb '33 of the moveover The Sign of the Cross.
The fourth segment of the stage show featured a Roman Colosseum setting.Opening with a march into the arena, the Ballet Co in a Bacchanale, a Gladiator plastique(acrobats or dancers?) a chariot race, and then a finale with the Rockettes as Gladiators.
Can you imagine?

Not exactly a Music Hall ad, but an indication of the power of the Music Hall name with the moviegoing public in 1967:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/barefoot.jpg

This must be an ad from the Bergen Record. Saw BITP with my family at the 303 Drive in which is featured in the ad(children under 12 free.)Wanted to see Hawaii which was playing at the Nyack I believe (we passed it as Julie was serving tea to Max somewhere in New England.)Saw it eventually at the Pascack in Westwood. This obviously was not a roadshow hit as by the summer of '67 it was everywhere.

This must be an ad from the Bergen Record. Saw BITP with my family at the 303 Drive in which is featured in the ad(children under 12 free.)Wanted to see Hawaii which was playing at the Nyack I believe (we passed it as Julie was serving tea to Max somewhere in New England.)Saw it eventually at the Pascack in Westwood. This obviously was not a roadshow hit as by the summer of '67 it was everywhere.

Vincent is right - it was a Bergen Record ad. I saw "Hawaii" at the Montauk in Passaic (featured in the ad). I always thought it was a big roadshow hit because it played for almost a year (41 weeks) at the DeMille in Manhattan, and Julie Andrews was tops at the box office - at least until "Star" came along.

Isn't it strange how you can remember an image you passed on a drive-in screen for almost 40 years? The one that I remember best is Charlton Heston getting sprayed with a firehose in "Planet of the Apes" at the Route 3 Drive-In in Rutherford.

Here are ads copied from microfilm in 1972, my first year of college. That explains the poor quality - microfilm readers have improved quite a lot since then - but I'm glad I still had them. The first is in two parts, from 1953:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/shane1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/shane2.jpg

The next is from 1959:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/northwest.jpg

Here is an advance ad for "Because Your Mine"
http://photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/?action=view¤t=QuietMan.jpg

I never saw that ad for "North by Northwest" before, it was always the plane in the air running picture.

Shane has a big Latin American stage show(makes sense) and its kicked off with Gilbert and Sullivan?!!!

>> Shane has a big Latin American stage show(makes sense) and its kicked off with Gilbert and Sullivan?!!!

I guess all you can say is ...That's showbiz!

BoxOfficeBill & Co,

Regarding your earlier mention of a 1960s Variety. Are 1950s-1960s Variety's available on-line or at any library system. j

In addition to the bound volumes of Variety film reviews, the N.Y. Public Library for the Performing Arts at Lincoln Center should have Variety Magazine complete on microfilm. (Where I live, U.R.I. has it all on microfilm.)

Wow. Robert R should had some great NY Times movie pages. I especially liked anything in the 40's-50's. My favorite era of motion pictures

Variety is on line through LexisNexis only back to 1993. Various libraries have it on microfilm or in the original paper editions or in some combination of the two.

Here’s a Program from September, 1960:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/song1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/song2.jpg

I truly don’t know why I went to see the movie, though the great casting of Genevieve Page, Patricia Morison, Martita Hunt, Lou Jacobi, and Marcel Dalio must have made it worthwhile. I remember joining my cynical college friends in heckling some of the grosser Hollywood lines about nineteenth-century high cultcha. Something tells me that one of us knew someone in the GW University chorus which performed in the stage show. Certainly the photo on the program’s cover could have been of any of us, except that we’d never give up our chinos or turtle necks to wear tuxes or gowns for any reason, not even to appear on RCMH’s great stage if we could.

What about the great casting of Capucine? One of the most beautiful women to grace the screen at the Music Hall.

What about the great casting of Capucine? One of the most beautiful women to grace the screen at the Music Hall.

You think the "Young Man With Humor" Gary Morton is the same guy who married Lucy after she broke up with Desi?

i just saw a ad for KISS ME KATE
when it opened at raido city
it open in wide screen only
but when it open at the lows metroplitan
in brooklyn it was in 3 dimension and
wide screen

myrtleave, Check back to Feb 8, 2005. there is an informative thread regarding Kiss Me Kate in 3-D at the hall by REndres

Yes, it was the same Gary Morton that became Mr. Lucille Ball...After being shown "flat" at RCMH, "Kate" played its entire Loew's circuit run in 3-D, with the "flat" "Fighter Attack" as the supporting feature.

Hey RichePipes,

Nice to see you here. Please read what I've written about Ray Bohr (all good, of course). Hope that you will be able to share more about the Music Hall with us.

Organ-ized

One of the all-time worst bookings at RCMH was UA's "South of Pago Pago," with Victor McLaglen & Jon Hall, which opened with stage show on August 1, 1940, and lasted only one week. It was preceded by WB's "All That Heaven Allows" (Bette Davis, Charles Boyer) and followed by MGM's "Pride and Prejudice" (Greer Garson, Laurence Olivier). When "Pago Pago" reached the Loew's circuit, it was as second feature to Paramount's "The Great McGinty."

1964 Captain Newman MD with Gregory Peck and Captain Newman
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/d41b8bf5.jpg

Here’s a Program from February 1960:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/feeling1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/feeling2.jpg

Our hearts were broken when Kay Kendall died a few weeks before this film opened at RCMH. I shall never forget thinking, as the great contour curtain descended and the traveler curtain closed on the final frame, that we’d never see her again. Then we went to a bar, drank a lot of beer, and argued about whether a young senator from Massachusetts named “Jack” could ever be nominated for president, as so many pundits were predicting he might be. Shortly afterwards, that young senator tossed his diaper into the ring.

I don't recall Radio City as ever having a draw curtain. Did they get rid of it?

Gustavelifting--

From the audience's perspective, the traveler curtain was behind the contour curtain, and at the end of films was synchronized to close as the countour descended.

Thanx Boxoffice

BOB I hope you got to see Home From the Hill at the Music Hall. One of the films I most want to see. The Walter Reade was going to show it during a Minnelli festival(or was it Mitchum?) but then they canceled it. Maybe a good print no longer exists.

A post from REndres indicatd the removal or the traveler curtain a while back. I believe they needed the rig for scenery. They did not use it much, if at all, once the movies stopped. Rob, any comments?
The timing of the countour and travelor curtain was impecably timed to the last frame of the movie and last note of the end title score, which was blended perfectly to the start of the organist.
Ah, showmanship, an important aspect of the biz in my day, all but lost now.

But Vito you are speaking of a time when having a naked screen in front of you was as unseemly as having a completely naked individual on stage in front of you.
We have gone 180 degrees.
(yet ironically people in general are more physically prudish and uncomfortable with themselves than ever.)

Long live the curtain traveler...but like everything else in the industry, it to came to its demise. Sad. I remember a few theatres using the "waterfall" curtain, which was also nice. Also liked the appatures better then. Now it's all projected on the same screen with the masking just going up and down rather than in and out to fit the format. I guess it must be due to the filming techiques. There was nothing more exciting sitting in a theatre seeing the cartoon or news etc. on a standard screen, the curtain closing..a small moment, then the masking, behind the curtain, would open and that terrific Fox logo appeared as the curtain opened revealing a nice wide CinemaScope (or whatever wide screen process was used) and the curtain would stop in time for the main title. Oh, yes, that was showmanship at its height.

Vito, I believe they took the pipe for the Golds/Silvers traveller out for our "Snow White" presentation since they needed to hang a tree leaf piece in that position. While I think of the traveller as being "the Golds" I think the control board has the switching marked as the "Silvers" so both colors must have been used at one time or other. The curtain was acoustically transparent, so for the roadshows we did with Entre'act music we didn't bring the contour in because it acted as a high frequency filter as it came down. The traveller was motor operated from the same panel as the contour, and could travel at four speeds. I had seen "Dr. Zhivago" in 70mm at the Palace in Chicago, and was impressed that after the intermission music as the picture started (with the train carrying Zhivago going through a tunnel) a point of light appeared on the screen and got bigger as the train approached the mouth of the tunnel. The stagehand in Chicago opened the curtain just ahead of the growing spot of light up until the train exited the tunnel and you saw the curtain a moment or so before it cleared the screen. I mentioned that to our house people, and when we ran "Zhivago" the light board and stage manager and control board operator tried the various traveller speeds and timing until they were able to recreate the effect. I think they had some fun doing it, as it wasn't just the usual open/close cycle the traveller was used for. By the way, there was also a light set in between the contour and the proscenium at the top of the arch which mirrored the footlights below. Apparently it didn't work all that well since I never saw it used although it was there when I started at the Hall, and I saw it from the catwalk above the proscenium. It also was removed to make way to hang other pieces.

Wow what great memories Rob and Ron have stired up for me.
Rob I can only imagine how exciting it must have been to walk that catwalk, whew, that had to be fun!. I ran "Zhivago a few times and always wanted to try and time the curtains and lights to that great opening scene in act two. wherever I had manual control of the house and stage lights, it was a kick to gradually lower the lights at different intervels during the overture, gradually going to black. I would put "clicks" on the print by splicing a one sprocket wide piece of film over the frame line emulsion to celluloid, then when I heard the click I would lower the lights to the next desired level.
Of course after about the second or third week of a 52 week engagement, we did not need the clicks anymore, everyone could operate the lights by listining to the music. The lightining had to be timed to a point in the overture when the music changed, it was easy with say a "South Pacific" where you could lower them to the change of songs. A lot of planning went into the roadshow presentations, we didn't just run the movie, we created a presentation, and like the time you tried to do "The Zhivago" it was a heck of a lot of fun was it not? People noticed, just ask Ron.

Wow what great memories Rob and Ron have stired up for me.
Rob I can only imagine how exciting it must have been to walk that catwalk, whew, that had to be fun!. I ran "Zhivago a few times and always wanted to try and time the curtains and lights to that great opening scene in act two. wherever I had manual control of the house and stage lights, it was a kick to gradually lower the lights at different intervels during the overture, gradually going to black. I would put "clicks" on the print by splicing a one sprocket wide piece of film over the frame line emulsion to celluloid, then when I heard the click I would lower the lights to the next desired level.
Of course after about the second or third week of a 52 week engagement, we did not need the clicks anymore, everyone could operate the lights by listining to the music. The lightining had to be timed to a point in the overture when the music changed, it was easy with say a "South Pacific" where you could lower them to the change of songs. A lot of planning went into the roadshow presentations, we didn't just run the movie, we created a presentation, and like the time you tried to do "The Zhivago" it was a heck of a lot of fun was it not? People noticed, just ask Ron.

Darn, does anyone know how to avoid those double posts?

Vito;
Sometimes you have to wait for the page to refresh itself with your post. Maybe, like me, you got a little impatient when it took too long.

My family says that the musical 1776 was playing on Independence Day in 1976, but I recall it being a film titled HARRY AND WALTER GO TO NEW YORK. Which one was playing that day? I remember seeing 1776 with my father some years earlier at Radio City.

It must have been Harry and Walter on July 4 in 1976. "1776" played the Music Hall in 1972, as the Christmas show.

Thanks a million Bill

Thanks Gustavelifting.

No Gustave is right. 1776 did play in the summer of 76 at the Hall. I don't know when Harry opened exactly but it is probable on 7/4 1776 was still there. I was ushering at the time and it replaced The Blue Bird which people literally could not sit through and would leave or wait in the lobby until it was over. I could never watch the whole thing myself. In the 70's even the greats had lost their talent.
Harry was the first Music Hall film to open simultaneiously in the local suburbs. That was it for the Hall as a presentation house.

That still leads to the debate, and that may be forever lasting.

Here’s a Program from 6 August, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/north1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/north2.jpg

The film opened forty-six years ago to this very day. The next morning’s newspapers carried rave reviews, and my cinemaniac friends immediately began phoning around to arrange meeting on West 50th Street for the Friday evening show. We only half-believed the reviews, since we imagined that both Hitchcock and Grant were getting a little too old for this sort of thing. But we turned out anyway to check for ourselves.

To our amazement when we arrived, the line stretched around the block. On that sultry evening, the ushers were barking their familiar chant: “The last stage show has already begun; tickets are now on sale for the final showing of the movie only.” When we reached the box-office forty-five minutes later, the ushers were barking, “The final showing of the movie is about to begin; there is some seating in the side rear sections only.” We raced up to the third mezzanine (we wanted to smoke, anyway) and found seats just as Richard Leibert was finishing up his organ solo. Then the picture began, and the rest became history.

Some months ago (4 April ’05), Vincent asked on this page whether audiences laughed at the closing shot of the train entering the tunnel. Well, yes, my friends and I did. You must know that we were exceptionally dirty-minded teenagers, prone to invent double entendres even when there were none. Of course, the mildly (but only mildly) repressed culture of the late ‘50s encouraged such double entendres, and our elders surely joined us in the guffaws. What I most remember about that packed house was the hush, the thrill, the sense of unison in laughter and relief. And when the huge audience emptied out after the last frame, the unusually animated talk, the giggles, and—on me—the sweaty palms of my hands still moist from that breathtakingly acrophobic finale.

Thanks, Bill. Of all the Radio City programs I'd want to see, that one for "North by Northwest" might be my #1 choice. I'm really glad you saved it for all these 46 years, and thanks too for sharing your memories of the night you saw it. You don't happen to have the program for "The Nun's Story" laying around the house, do you?

I do, and will post it next Thursday, or the Thursday after.

On second thought, why not post it today, in honor of having seen it there exactly forty-six years ago last night? Here’s my Program from the week beginning 30 July, 1959, acquired on 5 August, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/nuns1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/nuns2.jpg

That summer my friends cheated on me by sneaking out to see “The Nun’s Story” at RCMH while I was at work. Whether or not they thought I’d care to see Audrey Hepburn in a wimple, I was determined to catch that film on the screen where it had premiered. Plus, the stage show had boasted of a wacky finale that depicted the burning of Nome, Alaska, with real fire. So, on the final day of its run, I left work, returned home, ate a sullen supper, and then told my mom I was going off to see some Doris Day romp at the RKO Dyker. [Editor’s note: never trust a liar; Doris Day’s “It Happened to Jane” actually played at Loew’s Alpine that week; the co-feature was “Hey Boy! Hey Girl!” with Louis Prima and Keely Smith.] I then sneaked on to the BMT and arrived at RCMH just as the orchestra was rising for the very last performance of its collegiate overture.

I felt I owed it to myself and to my job to do that. This job, which I held for ten weeks each summer during my last two years of high school and first three years of college, kept me running around the city as a foot-messenger bearing documents and receiving signatures in the days before FAX and e-mail attachments made such work practically obsolete. My employer, a ship-building firm (now also practically obsolete, at least in the USA), entertained corporate clients at B’way shows and Yankees baseball games. When it became apparent to my boss that I knew more about the former than anyone in the shipyard, he dispatched me every day, often twice a day, and sometimes three or more times a day, to Times Square to procure tickets. Whenever I behaved badly, he dispatched me instead to Yankee Stadium, which I really didn’t mind because I could always read a book during the long subway ride. The upshot was that I spent a fair amount of time in the summers of ‘58-’62 scouring the theater district, chatting up box office managers, and doping out the best way to get the best seats for the hits of the time. Though it was only a movie, “Gigi” was one of those hits on reserved seats in ’58 at the Royale. And though it was only a movie which would soon wind up at the RKO Dyker [Editor’s note: really there, yes], “The Nun’s Story” in ’59 stood at the top of my must-see list.

It was the first and only time that I attended a last-night performance at RCMH. Part of the thrill was wondering how in the world the stagehands might strike the old sets and mount the new ones before the doors re-opened the next morning. Though I could imagine that backstage activity was always frenetic, I could only guess how scores of workers disassembled flats lining the choral stairways and then assembled their replacements, with set designers, stage managers, lighting crew, and other experts barking orders as the time flew by. If it took me hours to set up one Christmas tree each December, how could RCMH staff set up scores between midnight and dawn? And in the case of this show’s flaming finale, who would rush the smoldering timbers of Nome off the stage to make way for the spectacular “Serenade to the Stars” announced for the next day? Whew, it gave me a headache to think of it.

As it happened, the stage show proceeded luxe, calm, and voluptuous, with no hint of haste or who-gives-a-damn-at-this-point. And the film unfolded stately and serene on the fabulous screen, with no sound of hammers or hoists or drilling backstage. And when the contour curtain descended silently on the lone angelus bell at the movie’s end, the houselights came up and the organ came out to disperse the still nearly-full house with solemn exit music. It was a class act in serenity. Finding myself outside in the sultry August night on 50 Street, I saw that the display cases had been changed and the marquee retitled. I walked around the corner to 51 Street and found it cordoned off, ablaze in floodlight as stageworkers hauled scenery out the side doors and onto trucks, waving onwards other trucks packed with scenery ready to be unloaded. It was a beehive of activity. It all seemed unreal when I returned less than forty-five hours later to see “North by Northwest.” Meanwhile, I reported to my mom that I had found the Doris Day romp so good that I stayed to see the entire double feature twice, well past midnight.

What a great post Bill!
I wonder if REndres has any stories he may have heard of what had to have been a very busy night dressing the Great Stage between engagements.

I was only 4 years old when these great classics played the Hall in 1959, but Bill's amazingly detailed memories are the next best thing to having been there too. As for the programs, my printer sure is getting a workout.

>>That summer my friends cheated on me by sneaking out to see “The Nun’s Story” at RCMH while I was at work.

BoxOfficeBill, you are the gayest thing out there, and I mean that in a nice way!

Would like to hear stories from some of the backstage crew who did all that work to ready for the next days morning show. Also, where did the people who were in the shows rehearse? Was there a replica of the RCMH stage downstairs?

BOB I'm glad you finally got to see a stage show.
Does this mean you never saw Serenade to the Stars?
Andrew Sarris said he saw Sunset Boulevard at the Hall 21 times.
North would have been a film I would have seen multiple times at the Hall and preferably with a packed house.

I was at the Hall for four years or so of the movie/stage show policy, and remember show change nights well. There are two rehearsal halls above the theatre where the cast practiced. The large hall has the three elevator lines and the turntable radius painted on the floor, and is the same length as the stage. The Rockettes practiced their routines there. There was also a complete Peter Clark built model of the stage in the production office, which at one point even had moving elevators, so minature scenery could be tried out. The picture sheet (screen) had a heavy backing applied to it which also covered the center channel movie speaker which flies out with the sheet. When stereo came in, openings were cut in the backing to make flaps which could be lowered to accomodate the extra channel speakers which rode in on top of the first border of lights. When the flaps were down, the first entrance blacks were closed to keep light and noise from leaking out into the audience. Thus the stage crew could work during the film changing drops and scenery. The scenery was hung on alternate pipes for each production, so the new show could be hung while the current one was still running. The Rockettes had their own dormitory on the 50th street side of the building, and would stay there overnignt on change nights. Lighting call (which also included film effect set up and rehearsal) was at 4 A.M., with full cast due at 6 A.M. for rehearsal until the house opened for the first movie before 10. Since we also screened each of the two prints of the new film before it opened, this meant being there after the last show until 2 A.M. or so for a couple of nights close to the change. In addition, the whole production crew was expected to be there until the last stage show on opening day was completed. In the instance of the first 70mm roadshow presentataions we did when I was there we also had to reinstall overhauled 70mm projectors and a new xenon lamp on one machine, so I just slept in my chair at my desk until the 4 A.M. lighting call even though I was living just five blocks north of the Hall at the time. As frantic as those times were, the load-ins and load-outs after the movie/stage policy ended were even more hectic. I can remember walking into the theatre at 8 A.M. after the first MTV Awards show had been done the night before, and finding stage hands sleeping in the aisles in the orchestra, since they had another large show coming in that day. The cast and crew were able to pull off the changes overnight because everyone's life pretty much revolved around the theatre and they were used to it. Some of that crew is still there today, and in some cases their grandkids are now working on the crew too. There's a level of devotion to that theatre that I suspect may be unmatched anywhere else in the country.

Wow, that was something. REeners could write a book on this. Incredible information. This puts a whole new light on the days of yore at the Hall. No one probably even gave this quick change a second thought. I dind't at the time myself. Just took everything for granted. Again, thanks for sharing some fantastic information from the inside.

I would like to second that, once again Rob Endres has brought us behind the scenes and shared the magic that was/is Radio City.
I never gave much thought to the massive undertaking it was to produce the shows, so much hard work and dedication is quite remarkable really. Thanks for sharing Rob!

Anybody see the film Penelope at the Hall? About as archtypal a New York 60's comedy as you can get. Natalie Wood at her most beautiful. Lensed in Panavision and glorious 60's Technicolor(or is it Metrocolor?) With New York looking scrubbed and very glamourous in a way it would never look again. It must have looked great within that sunburst procenium. According to Variety it broke house records.
Then it went wide release and its failure almost cost Wood a breakdown.

I feel bad about Natalie. Now I'm glad I did go to see it in wide release, at the Rivoli in Rutherford NJ. All I can remember about it now is the title song, sung by (I think) the Association. Got to check on that ...

I was wrong about the song - it was sung by "The Pennypipers". It was an early credit for John Williams. He wrote the film's score and the music for the title song.

1933 Cocktail Hour
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Earlier posts about "Norh by Northwest" reminded me of the scene about two hours into the movie when Eva Marie pretends to shoot Gary Grant, there is a young boy extra sitting in the background who puts his fingers in his ears in anticipation of the gun shot. I wonder how Hitch felt about not having noticed that until it was to late.

renders thank you , you brought back alot of very found memories.i was there for alot of openings, it felt good to relive those wonderful times. thanks again

Here's a rare view of RCMH confronting the 50th Street station of the Sixth Avenue elevated subway line:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/134-3404_IMG.jpg

Here’s a program from May, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/ask-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/ask-2.jpg

We all liked Shirley MacLaine, ever since we first saw her in “The Trouble with Harry,” and we thought she’d make a great comedienne. I’ll never forget seeing her arrive at the World Premiere of “Around the World in Eighty Days” on television in October ’56. In those days, all the big B’way premieres were televised live on the local NYC Dumont network channel 5, and “Around” was no exception. As La Shirley stepped from her limo, the interviewer asked her how she acquired such a wacky hair-do, and she giggled, “With an eggbeater,” and then swept grandly into the Rivoli. We speculated that she was ever so tipsy from Champagne and that we’d love to see her again. The Todd-AO spectacle proved disappointing as it allowed her no scope for madcap hilarity, so we waited for the proper comic vehicle to display her talents.

And waited. In January ’59, “Some Came Running” (an RCMH “adult” film, booked for the January post-holiday sober set) gave her an opportunity to act tipsy and boused again, but not really funny. Then in May came “Ask Any Girl,” with its promise of airy sexcapade. But I found the film leaden and predictable. And I don’t recall a single act from the stage show, even though the female violinist, the coloratura, and their crowd wore pajamas and peignoirs. All I remember was the terrific excitement that Audrey Hepburn would follow in “The Nun’s Story,” a book that as a Catholic high school kid I had read amid great controversy about its realistic treatment of religious vocation. A year later MacLaine would hit her stride with “The Apartment,” allowing her to act by turns tipsy and funny.

What a classy coming attractions announcement for "The Nun's Story", as befitting one of the finest movies ever made. Out of all the excellent movies Audrey made, I'd choose this one as her best. The long-awaited DVD release is set for November 8th.

Here's a master plan of the fire exits, drawn up when the theatre was still known as the International Music Hall:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/134-3457_IMG.jpg

This plan, reproduced in each Showplace Program up through the early '60s, projects an optical illusion, or at least a misleading ratio since the mezzanine sketches do not share the same scale as the orchestra sketch. If you measure the width of the mezzanines as compared with that of the orchestra, or the opening of the mezzanine promenades as compared with that of the Grand Foyer, you'll find that the scale of the upper levels is magnified by comparison with that of the ground floor.

This disproportion vexed me as a kid who studied such architectural plans compulsively. I'd never set foot in the first mezzanine, which held only reserved seating during the film years, but when as a teenager I eventually climbed to the second and third mezzanines with cartons of Philip Morris to puff on, I recognized the difference immediately.

1961 "Parrish"
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Also 1961 "Come September" with Rock Hudson
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seven brides
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pajama game
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glass menagerie-1950
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the man-1950
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the next voice you hear-1950
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see you in my dreams-1951
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ivanhoe-1952
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wherws charley?-1952
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kiss me kate-1953
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easy to love-1953
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roman holida-1953
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dangerous when wet-1953
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student prince-1954
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deep in my heart-1954
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mister roberts-1955
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0035.jpg

teahouse of the august moon-1956
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prince and the showgirl-1957
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cat on a hot tin roof-1958
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reluctant debutante-1958
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auntie mame-1958
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north by northwest-1959
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0042.jpg

the F.b.I. STORY-1959
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0043.jpg

Myrtleave - Great ads. I love seeing this stuff.

Amazing, isn't it? When these ads first appeared it didn't mean much. Just ads. Now it's HISTORY. It will never be the same because of the loss of the Palaces. Even years from now if someone posts ads from the 60's thru today, it wouldn't mean anything because of the multiples. More, more, more ads from the 40's-50's...

An early image of the stage with the contour curtain down:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/135-3560_IMG.jpg

Here’s a Program from April, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-blessings1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-blessings2.jpg

You can’t win ‘em all. Despite its great cast (with Chevalier direct from “Gigi”) and ads that promised a “really riotous romantic comedy,” I found the film a huge dud and completely forgettable. About a year ago, I tuned into TCM while it was being shown and asked myself in disbelief, “I saw that at RCMH?” The scene I watched exposed Kerr in a shower scene full-length nude behind an opaque tub enclosure, totally gratuitously and without any relevance to the plot. Gasp.

In his admirable, lucid, cranky New Biographical Dictionary of Film, David Thomson writes of the director and the late ‘50s that they represent “the worst of cinema, when production schedules had not shrunk to the new, smaller audience or begun to aspire to its higher standards. For a few years, major studios still churned out a pale version of their blithe past” (p. 627). We all have our prejudices, and I for one find many films from that era simply wonderful; but as a description of “Count Your Blessings,” I think Thomson’s estimate is right on target.

The Helvetian stage show provided its own whiff of decadence. Advertised as a “gigantic spectacle . . . featuring singers, dancers, native musicians, folk entertainers, especially brought from Switzerland for this extravaganza,” it has left no trace in my memory. Not even of the “Rock ‘n Yodel” by the Smeed Trio. It seems symptomatic that the Showplace Program abandoned its usual end-page announcement of the next attraction to offer instead a promotional raffle sponsored by laundry and dish detergent. The ad revenues likely offered some subvention for the stage extravaganza.

The movie that followed "Count Your Blessings" was just as bad, MGM's "Ask Any Girl," with a mismatched David Niven & Shirley MacLaine.

Warren-- right; my post on that one last week (18 Aug.) concurs with your estimate. The leads had paired earlier in "Around the World in Eighty Days" with equally gaseous results; but that pic had Todd-AO to look at.

But then following you had two hit them out of the ball park with steroids home runs. I would have been thrilled with the equivilant of just one in all of the 70's.

Vincent-- Yes, absolutely. "Nun's Story" and "NxNW" redeemed everything.

This 1944 movie was no relation to "Cluny Brown," which opened in NYC two years later at the Rivoli Theatre:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/135-3540_IMG.jpg

Rockettes, the Schola Cantorum, the Corps de Ballet, or all of them is more than I remember. But I can barely imagine any of them dashing around in the spidery shift that the film’s star wore on screen. Not the Rockettes kicking, nor the Schola chanting from “Prince Igor,” nor the Ballet dancing to Offenbach. Whew.

Warren reports the inventor of Panavision’s crediting the film for the success of that process, which MGM introduced because Hepburn thought that CinemaScope made her look like a balloon in close-ups. The Program gets it wrong and lists the process as “Metrocolor and CinemaScope.” I can only hope that the Program also got it wrong about the stage show’s use of “Radium effects by Stroblite Co. and Black Light Eastern Corp.” If not, we all might have glowed in the dark after leaving the theater. Perhaps we did? What I most remember about the stage show, again mimicking the film, was the jungle scent of “Perfume, ‘Antilope’ by Parfums Weil, Paris,” blown in under the seats during the finale. Folks with serious allergies might have had trouble staying on for the picture that followed.

Whoops-- the beginning of my post fell off the screen-- sorry-- here's the whole thing all over again--

Here’s a Program from March, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-green.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-green2.jpg

Golly. An RCMH Easter show that sort of vaporized in its arty pretension. And another instance of an RCMH stage show mimicking the trope of the film. In the credits you’ll see that the live cast wore “Junior Fashions inspired by ‘Green Mansions.’” Whether this meant the Rockettes, the Schola Cantorum, the Corps de Ballet, or all of them is more than I remember. But I can barely imagine any of them dashing around in the spidery shift that the film’s star wore on screen. Not the Rockettes kicking, nor the Schola chanting from “Prince Igor,” nor the Ballet dancing to Offenbach. Whew.

Warren reports the inventor of Panavision’s crediting the film for the success of that process, which MGM introduced because Hepburn thought that CinemaScope made her look like a balloon in close-ups. The Program gets it wrong and lists the process as “Metrocolor and CinemaScope.” I can only hope that the Program also got it wrong about the stage show’s use of “Radium effects by Stroblite Co. and Black Light Eastern Corp.” If not, we all might have glowed in the dark after leaving the theater. Perhaps we did? What I most remember about the stage show, again mimicking the film, was the jungle scent of “Perfume, ‘Antilope’ by Parfums Weil, Paris,” blown in under the seats during the finale. Folks with serious allergies might have had trouble staying on for the picture that followed.

From the Wishful Thinking Dept. Several internet sites, including Ain't It Cool News, have reported that there was a test screening of "The Producers" in Edgewater, NJ several days ago. The posted comments have been very favorable, noting that the film comes across as a faithful adaptation of the Broadway hit as well as a throwback to old fashioned movie musicals (no "Moulin Rouge" here); the audience apparently applauded after the end of each number. Assuming these comments are accurate, what an ideal RCMH Christmas attraction this would have made.

Speaking of glowing in the dark I believe I saw this effect used on the Rockettes in the '70 Christmas show when all the lights in the Hall were shut off and one could see the high kicking legs aglow. Also there is a photo from a very old Music Hall souvenir book with the the former Missouri Rockets in Halloween skeleton costumes!
I am sure the glow in the dark effect was used for this.
Richard Foreman would have loved it.
As for the Producers as a Christmas film knowing Brooks penchant for crudeness, potty humor and homophobia which reaches some sort of apotheosis in this work(full disclosure I haven't seen the stage show) its hardly what I would like to think of as a Music Hall Christmas film.(how many times is the F word used? does the movie get a PG 13 or an R rating?)

The F word is used once in the stage version of "The Producers", in a song ("The King of Broadway") that wasn't included in the film. "The Producers" hasn't been rated yet; the version tested this week was a rough cut. For the record, only one of Brooks' films was rated R ("Blazing Saddles").

Here's a 1954 image of the screen, which was manufactured by Vocalite and known as the "Hi-Lite" model. The screen was made from 100% vinyl "plas-tec," and had a light reflection value of 90% and a whiteness ratio of 94.6%. It was highly resistant to stains and 100% washable (I apologize for the smudges, which are only on the magazine page that I copied this from):
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/136-3692_IMG.jpg

Warren,

I have a question to ask, but perhaps you would not want it on the board. Could you contact me at dfinger@sacranet.com ?

Thanks,

- Dwight F

does any one know if they will put out the tv movis "legs" I have it on cassette, but really want it on dvd, thanks

The great photo of the Music Hall's cinemascope screen makes it look as though it were one sheet. However on previous posts people have said that the screen was in several horizontal strips and that they were quite noticable to the film viewer. Was this the case and does that mean that all those widescreen features shown in '54 and '55 had that flaw which I would assume would have been pretty distracting? Also if the Hall had it doesn't that mean that the Roxy and other theaters had it as well?

Vincent---
I saw many Cinemascope films at the Roxy and the Music Hall and never noticed any horizontal strips (even with my discerning eyes) at either theater. I would be interested in reading others views on this.

Vincent, I am sure REndres will comment here, but the strips you described were never installed in any theatre other than for Cinerama. They were guided louvers each angled to the audience and the projector. It was designed that way to reduce cross reflection to a minimum. Does anyone know of any purpose for louvered screens other than Cinerama?

I'm the crank who brought up the topic of visible seams in the screen several times in the past, notably in my post of 1 September 2004. I'll stand by that claim to my last breath. Those seams enraged me as a kid in the early '50s.

The defiantly flat screen at RCMH in 1953 consisted of eight panels @ 4'x70' sewn horizontally so that when the masking dropped for CinemaScope, the viewing measured 28'x70', and when the side masking moved in for regular projection, the surface measured 32'x55' or so.

You cannot see the dark lines in Warren's picture because the screen's whiteness bleaches out those details. But if you sat close enough to that screen at the time, you'd go mad looking at them.

The same was true of enlarged screens everywhere in the mid-'50s, except that to achieve curvature, the panels were sewn vertically on frames set at slight angles to one another to yield an arc of 12:1. If I remember correctly, the Roxy's CinemaScope screen consisted of sixteen such panels (= 64' total width), and masking closed in to allow ten panels (= 40' width) of viewing surface for conventional projection.

I further recall that around the time of "Friendly Persuasion" (Nov. '56), RCMH finally installed a truly seamless screen. Or perhaps I was just going blind from teenage activities and didn't notice the familiar old horizontal lines so much. Today, I'd be thrilled to see any screen at all.

Bill, all through the 50s during the wide screen era, in the many theatres I have worked, I never saw what you have described, and I worked in some theatres with some rather large screens. I would love to hear from others out there on this subject, I am fasinated by what you have written. By the way, your not a crank, it has been a pleasure sharing information and stories with you.

The first film I saw at Radio City was "High Society" in 1956, so they may have gone to a seamless screen then as I don't remember seeing seams. I was told that the screens the Hall used were Hurley screens and Mel Hurley almost gave them to the Hall for the publicity. At that point they changed the screen every six months. They may have tried to use a gain screen when Scope came in. I do remember being told that the screens were lenticulated, and that the lenticulations were embossed in the fabric at an angle to bring the reflected light up 5 degrees or so. That was a standard practice with the "MiracleMirror" screens Fox developed for CinemaScope for houses with a sharp downward projection angle. The curvature of the screen also helped distribute the light more evenly horizontally. Since the Hall couldn't use a curved screen because of the loss of lines for scenery in the stage shows, a gain screen would have a hot spot and any deformation where the seams were would be more obvious. We did try a gain screen once when I was there, but it really displayed the faults BoxOfficeBill mentions -- obvious seams and the hot spot that shifted as you changed seats. We switched to Technikote screens which were matte white, and although they were made up of panels, the seams weren't noticeable from the audience. Ben Olevsky always pointed out that the Hall with its 19 degree downward projection angle and block wide width wasn't suited for a gain screen. It may have been the experience with the screens that BoxOfficeBill is commenting about that convinced management of that.

Now the whole thing is beginning to make more sense. I recall the MiracleMirror screens quite well but they were not necessary in very many theatres, I did not realise Vincent and Bill were writing about screens with horizontal seams, I was refering to the horizontal louvered screens which is what we used in Cinerama, forgive an old man. As for the panels in the screens, which we still have today, I would agree with REndres in that they are not very noticable. I should mention that in many of the theatres running digital projection, we are being encouraged to install seamless screens.

REndres--

Thanks for your expert technical explanation of those maddening seams. The period I refer to extends from the Panoramic screen era of Summer '53 to some time around '56. "High Society" played there that summer (I didn't see it there then); "Friendly Persuasion" was the Thanksgiving show. I don't remember noticing seams before Summer '53, not even on the Magnascope screen for special sequences in "King Solomon's Mines," "The Greatest Show on Earth," and other films of the early '50s.

Nor do I recall ever seeing a hot spot at RCMH in those years: much must have depended on where one sat (for me, often at the cross-aisle on either the right or left hand side of the orchestra: as a kid, no obstructive heads in front; as an adult, room to stretch my long legs).

Vito: I was a pint-sized nut about projection quality in those days. Now I'm just a crank.

Bill, I can relate to your feelings about projection quality, it has been a passion of mine for over 50 years. I have had my share of battles with exibitors who showed little or no interest in what the picture on the screen looked like, I remember telling one theatre owner to get out of the business. I too was a crank, a trouble making pain in the butt to any one who dared not to take the fine art of projection seriously. I must tell you it warms my heart to know there were folks like you out there appreciating the kind of film presentation I took so much pride in. sometimes my complaints to theatre owners were ignorned with a comment like "don't worry about it,no one will notice" Well, they were wrong, you noticed.

Vito--

And my deepest thanks to you and those like you who gave us so much pleasure when you presented films with such care and style in those days. Yes, we indeed noticed, and are now delighted to express our gratitude.

I second the motion. Too bad people in the business are not as caring. Heck, they don't even have projectionists any more. Just kids or managers (who are kids sometimes themselves) do all the so- called projection!! How many times has the picture been out of focus or projected on the masking!! It was so bad onetime at a Lowe's I asked for a refund. The apature was so out of sync that in closeups the actors lips were barely seen. Guess that's why I haven't been to a cinema for almost a year now. Good old DVD on my wide screen home theatre system is the best way to see films today.

Recently TCM has been showing a short Robert Redford tribute to Natalie Wood. One gets to see beautiful letterboxed images from Inside Daisy Clover. This used to play fairly frequently on TV years ago and it never looked like this. While I remember that it was not an especially good movie projected at the Music Hall in Panavision it must have been something to see. Of course at the time everyone probably took it for granted.
Is there any screen couple today as beautiful as Wood and Redford?

I have been a theater manager for twenty five years and had ten more years at the music hall. I have never seen the industry so down The morons who claim to run the buisness have it so low that it will never recover!The reason projection is so bad is that they have cut the projectionist there will come a time when there will be no more projectionist. ronfrompittsburgh hit it on the head dvd home theaters.

Here’s a Program from December 1958:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-auntie.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-auntie2.jpg

O Holy Night! “Auntie Mame” struck a chord with so many people (probably mostly everyone in the ‘40s and ‘50s) who had a “maiden aunt” in the family. Two world wars had depleted the male population sufficiently to produce a couple of generations with a noticeable cadre of unmarried women in their ranks.

Mine had started out her young adult life as a vaudeville songster on the RKO circuit and in Coney Island. There she had met and performed with Danny Kaye, Frank Sinatra, and many others who once brought down the house. The stories! Her career ended when vaudeville ended and my grandparents wouldn’t approve of her performing out-of-town. When she approached her eighties, she left Brooklyn and took an apartment near me in Tiny Town, not too far from Podunk (yes, there is a Podunk, 250 miles west of Times Square). We eventually knew that she was ready for a nursing home when, at our glittering dinner parties, she regaled friends of my generation with her familiar stories, now progressively emebllished, about how “I performed with ‘em all: Kaye, Sinatra, … and Elvis, the Beatles, and Mick Jagger, too.”

Before the play, there was the novel which I had read on the subway going back and forth to high school. Roz originated the role on B’way, but by the time I got to see the play, Greer Garson had taken over the part. That was a good choice, too, but it was Peggy Cass who tore us all apart with laughter. Those of us in the standing room could barely stay on our feet. She became a regular on the Jack Paar show, won an AA for the film, appeared in a couple of other shows (we went backstage to see her after “A Thurber Carnival”), and then that was that.

For the Christmas stage show, we sat close to the choral staircase on the right in the first row. My friend claimed that he had heard a Rockette fart. I didn’t, and I never believed him too much after that.

BOB other than the Rockette do you remember anything else about the stage show? That Santa of the Sea finale seems somewhat bizarre. I know that the Kirby flying ballet was often used for the Undersea Ballet. So was the ballet underwater and did they manage to submerge Santa as well? What I would give for films or even photos of some of these stage shows!

Vincent--

O yes, the show offered that familiar underwater effect with the Corps de Ballet performing behind a scrim, onto which were projected moving images of waves (with music by Debussy, "La mer"), climaxed by Santa's arrival that turned the ocean floor into a Christmas village ("Christmas-tide" indeed). No bubbles from any broken wind that I know of.

Now BOB that's enough. Leave such comments to the Roxy or Paramount page. What would the women in hats and gloves in the first mezz at the latest Greer Garson movie say?

Does anyone recall the stage show that Ginger Rogers did with the Rockettes in May, 1980? I believe that it ran for about 90-100 performances. Did Rogers perform any songs from "Mame," in which she had starred on the stage in London's West End?

Warren I don't recall her doing any numbers from "Mame" I do rember being a very nice Lday who took the time to meet with the pages.It did run for 90 min.

I also remember Ginger Rogers at Radio City. As I recall, she was a guest star in the show for a 2 week period during the 90 minute summer show that the Music Hall ran during the tourist season from Memorial Day thru Labor Day. Nearing 70 at the time, Ginger managed quite well with slow dance numbers with chorus boys doing most of the faster dancing around her. Somewhere in my archives, I have some Super 8mm footage that I shot during her numbers. All in all I have positive memories of the show although I do not recall what songs Ginger performed.
I used to look forwarded to those summer spectaculars, which were reasonably priced and reminiscent of the stage shows of previous times. Too bad they were discontinued.

I think Carol Lawerence took over for Ginger after she left. Another very fond memory is when Red Skelton Appeared at the Hall He also met with the pages, and was one of the sweetest people i've ever met, in fact he called my girlfriend a dear heart, and you could not get the smile off her face

I was told recenly by one of the top theater organists that the american Theater Organ Society was working on some kind of event for this summer. He said the plans fell through, but that they are still working on something for the near future. Is there any new information on this?
DeanS

I was told recenly by one of the top theater organists that the american Theater Organ Society was working on some kind of event for this summer. He said the plans fell through, but that they are still working on something for the near future. Is there any new information on this?
DeanS

Here’s a Program from July 1958:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/ramh-indiscreet1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-indiscreet2.jpg

“Indiscreet” struck me as a dud projecting the exhaustion of a H’wood studio system intent on making its stars of a decade or two earlier perform as though they were younger again. I stand second to none in my admiration for Bergman, ever since at the age of three I saw her twice in “Bells of St. Mary’s,” first at RCMH and then at the RKO Dyker. And if I could only come across like Cary Grant (I try, believe me, I still try). But I remember when seeing the film at that time I thought, “This is what it must have been like at RCMH ten or fifteen years ago.” Only it wasn’t, of course.

One Showplace Program I regret having lost or misplaced around that time was for “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof” the following September. Last 22 August, Myrtleave posted a newspaper ad for that film and stage show, and I’m grateful for it. My senior year in high school had just begun, and to celebrate it, a bunch of us piled onto the subway and headed for W 50 Street. The film had its daring moments, to be sure, and also its sexy and its tender ones. I remember that when the great contour curtain descended, we engaged in a lively debate about whether Brick was really an, um, you know, shhing one another so that our frank conversation would not scandalize the tourists and families who sat all around us. It’s a kick to think that little more than a dozen years later Robert Wagner, Natalie Wood, and Laurence Olivier would perform in a prime-time television version (I never saw it) based more closely on the play’s uncensored script (or so I’ve heard). It’s also a kick to imagine that today any high school kids might shh one another on any topic whatsoever. And yet films at RCMH allegedly went out of style for lack of suitable GP product.

I'm surprised that Indiscreet isn't one of those films that's shown to death on TCM.
Maybe BOB you might want to give it another chance. It is very slight but it's a very charming classy Donen film with a lot of style.
We've got older stars today doing comedy and with nowhere near the class and comic timing of Bergman and Grant.

True, "Indiscreet" is exactly the sort of film that TCM lionizes. Life is short and art is long and there's so much to see, but if the chance comes along, I might peek at it again. Both Grant and Bergman were then a lot younger than I am now, so maybe their ages won't seem so distracting this time.

Here’s a Program from April, 1959:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-andrew1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-andrew2.jpg

“Merry Andrew” also seemed a minor effort, despite the talent of Michael Kidd, Johnny Mercer, IAL Diamond, Baccaloni, and others associated with it. But it was a RCMH Easter show, and Danny Kaye seemed practically a member of the family (though I never met him), and my high school friends were ready for a good laugh (which hardly came with this picture), so we went to it on Good Friday afternoon while the rest of NYC bowed hushed in prayer. That was a good thing about the Easter show at RCMH: if you didn’t have a reverent bone in your body, you could always walk in on that day without encountering a line. On the other hand, look at what happened to President Lincoln when he went to Ford’s Theater on Good Friday nearly a century earlier.

So if you didn't have a reverent bone in your body what did you think of Leonidoff's Glory of Easter?
I don't have one either but I loved it(like his Nativity.)
By the way Saul Chaplin said that the film studio pulled the budget at a crucial moment in the Merry Andrew's production leaving Kidd forced to wrap up the film with still so much to be done compromising what might have been a terrific movie.

Heralded as a "WORLD EVENT," "Becky Sharp," the first feature in "perfected" Technicolor, opened here on June 13, 1935, and did enough business to warrant a hold-over for a second week. Curiously, the stage show was entitled "Black and White," which suggests that it might have been deliberately designed to contrast with the screen attraction. The revue's "six gay scenes" included the introduction of a new song by Kay Swift & A. Silverman, "I've Gotta Take Off My Hat to You." On June 27, RCMH switched to the B&W Grace Moore musical, "Love Me Forever," coupled with "The Magazine Rack," a revue in which "famous periodicals come to life on the great stage." This booking also rated a hold-over for one more week, perhaps helped by a new Walt Disney Technicolor "Silly Symphonies" cartoon, "Who Killed Cock Robin?," that was also on the bill.

Yes warren, it was in fact the first film to be shot in the three strip Techniclor process. Audiences, having only experienced two strip color,were blown away by the spectacular life like images.
In my humble opinion, with all of the advancements in color photography we have today, nothing compares to the splender of
three strip Techniclor print projected with a carbon arc lamp.
I remember when RCMH converted to Xenon lamps, the result in my opinion was dramatic, and not in a good way. Carbon arc is gone as is three strip, Progress? I say Humbug!

Vito when was the switch. For what film?
By the way Becky Sharp was restored a number of years ago except for the finale scene of which the elements no longer existed. It must be seen on a screen. Not TV!

Vincent I will ask my friend Rob Endres to verify this, but I believe it was with the Easter 1970 showing of "Airport", when RCMH installed the three 35/70 projectors. That would have been projectors #2-#3-#4. Perhaps Rob can tell us if the other two straight 35mm projectors, #1 and #5 get converted to xenon at the same time.
As for your comment about Becky, "you got that right"

"Airport" was the first film shown in 70mm at Radio City. My predecessor, Ben Olevsky, was against installing 70mm (perhaps because he knew it would disrupt a smooth running booth). MGM had wanted to do "Unsinkable Molly Brown" there in 70, but Ben was able to veto the idea. (A shame, since I saw it in Chicago in 70mm and it was a good transfer with a great sound mix.) Ross Hunter insisted that "Airport" be shown in 70, and since Universal was four-walling the Hall, Ben had no choice. The three projectors were commandered from the Paramount complex in the Gulf and Western Building at Columbus Circle, since there were three going into the theatre and four more into the two screening rooms upstairs, which weren't ready to open. There are many stories to be told about that installation. The machines for a variety of reasons didn't work well, and when I started there, we took them out to National Theatre Supply (Simplex) in Paramus and had them rebuilt.

I might quibble with Vito about the xenon installation. We couldn't get condensers for the Hall & Connely carbon arc lamps. We even tried to get the used Ashcrafts from the Astor Theatre, and couldn't do that. In 1974 we started experimenting with xenon, and at one point had a different lamp on each projector. We finally settled on ORC lamps, with vertical lamps for the 35/70 machines and horizontal lamps for the 1 and 5 machine, which had to remain on Simplex bases so they could be readily moved for use in film effect projection in the stage shows. We did get more light out of the xenons than we were getting out of the HyCans (in all fairness, that was in part due to the burned lenses in the lamps.) Focus did improve with the xenons although we had to change to slower Scope back-up lenses to compensate for the higher lamp speed. Scope focus was dramatically improved over the HyCans with the 4" Bausch and Lomb lenses that were being used.

By the way, we did run "Becky Sharp" in the first Art Deco Film Festival in 1974 and it was indeed beautiful.

Ok Rob, I am sure you are right, however I left for Hawaii in 1972 and did not return to NY until 1982. I could have sworn I saw xenon projection at RCMH prior to 1972, I remember thinking the light was dull by comparison to the carbon arc, although the focus had improved. This is an eye opener for me and it has left me a bit confused. Oh, and thanks Vincent for bringing this whole thing up, just another reminder of my old mind turning to mush, lol.

Vito, the HyCans were getting so dull, you might have seen one of them and thought it was xenon. I doubt that they would have experimented during Ben's regime as he didn't like anything that could disturb the booth operation (although they did try Universal's half frame projection in which the reel was run from head to tail, and then taken out of the lower magazine and threaded back in the upper magazine with the other picture so there was no rewinding).

Inerestingly enough, when we started looking at xenon none of the major manufacturers wanted to give us a lamp to because of the angle and screen size. Finally, Al Bodouris of Eprad gave us a lamp to try. Once he broke the ice, Christie and ORC also installed lamps (in the case of ORC both their prototype console with vertical bulbs pointing into a 45 degree mirror, which we picked to counteract the angle), and horizontal lamps. Strong never did get involved. The light output with new collector mirrors and dichroic mirrors and new bulbs did equal the HyCans which did give a pure light, but were inefficient compared even to reflector carbon arc lamps. At 4500 watts for xenon we equalled or bettered the HyCans which ran at 100 volts at the generator and 180 amps or 18,000 watts. We didn't change to save electricity but rather because we just couldn't get parts for the arc lamps. We still needed to get lighter prints for premieres as we had with the carbon lamps, and we still got prints made with the soundtrack advanced two frames to count for the delay from the booth to the back row of the third mezzanine which is four frames. Now with 7,000 watt xenons in use in the 70mm projection in the Christmas Show they should really have a nice looking picture.

Oops! Should have done my proof-reading more carefully! The sound delay from the SCREEN to the back row of the 3rd Mezz. is four frames. If the sound is in sync at the screen its four frames out of sync in the back row. Advancing the track two frames puts the sound in sync in the middle of the orchestra and at the front of the 1st Mezz. where the VIPs sit for premieres.

Rob, I will be scraching my head over this one for a while. I remember being told in the early 70s, by other 306 operators, that RCMH had converted to xenon, obviously that was not the case. I also remember NO ONE challenged Ben. I can't believe they tried that crazy half frame projection, I remember Universal trying to save costs on raw stock by reducing a six reel movie to three reels, talk about disturbing the booth operation. Let's see, if the reel is heads up you have reel one and when it's tails it's reel 3. Yeah... what could possibly go wrong there? Thank God that died a quick death, I have a six inch sample to show my grand children. By the way were you aware that when the operators struck two new carbons you could hear, in the third mezz, the neg and pos carbons kissing in the 180 amp lamps? What a sweet sound that was. Thanks for all the technical info, I love to continue to learn. As for the 7,000 watt xenons I'll look forward to seeing that, but I would not want to be in the booth if one of those explodes. The audience members will think the operator shot himself. For those of you who are unaware, sometimes a xenon bulb explodes inside the lamphouse, there is no danger to anyone but it makes a terrific bang.

Speaking of Molly Brown. There was this weekend on a Broadway chat line a discussion of that film and the consensus is that everyone hates it. From what I've seen on TV I would have to agree but seeing it in 70mm at the Hall. That would be tremendous.
Now how could this guy Ben have so much clout at the Hall as to nix 70mm there. I would have thought that most people would have been overjoyed to see a 70mm musical there including the president of the place and Leonidoff et al.
Wouldn't the president(maybe Gould?) say to him "you figure out the logistics just make it work!"

I'mmmmmmmmmmmm going to let Rob Endres field that one.
I will say that management respected and trusted experts like Ben to guide them in matters pertaining to projection. How was that Rob,
am I a diplomat or what. I should have been a business agent.

There were several reasons for Ben's being able to veto 70mm. Most 70mm releases in those days were road shows that were too long to fit into the Music Hall policy of a stage show and movie. They had never done a show with pre-show music, intermission, entr'acte music and exit music until we did a 70mm retrospective in 1974. It wasn't until "Molly Brown" that there was a 70mm film that was short enough to fit the policy. Ben was friends with the head of post production at MGM who told him that there weren't going to be many 70mm releases coming up, so Ben was able to convince management that it wasn't economically advisable to install the equipment, although at one point in time Norelco supposedly offered to give the Hall three machines for the publicity. They did consider it. I had in my files (and may have at home now) a proposal for a 70mm sound system from Ampex, complete with drawings of how it would fit in the booth. Another possible reason was that Music Hall management was more stage than film oriented (and still is). For good reason they trusted their department heads who were regarded as experts in their fields. Ben and Charlie Muller before him were expected to manage a large crew and see that the show never went down. Thus the caution about new technology. When Charlie needed technical expertise he could rely on the studio's technical departments to supply it. Ben ran 70mm at the World's Fair in '64, and understood an installation of the magnitude necessary at the Hall would very possibly interrupt the presentation, since at that time they couldn't shut down during the installation time to work out the bugs as many theatres did. As I mentioned above there were a whole bunch of unusual problems associated with the installation that were still there when I came in as Head Projectionist in '74. I actually had a crew member try to choke me (in jest) when he heard we were going to run 70mm, and say, "We don't want to run 70mm at the Hall." Ben even hated the color of the ElectroSound system that was installed and which was a copy of the Ampex system originally discussed, and retired about three years after the conversion.

By the way, regarding "Molly Brown", I mentioned to the head of post at MGM during a tour of the studio (the same one who told Ben there weren't going to be many more 70mm releases) that I had seen the film in 70mm in Chicago. He said that they were unsure about striking any 70mm prints until they made one with a full stereo mix with surrounds and ran it for an audience. He said it was like they were watching a completly different film. Remember, most people only saw it in Scope and with a mono track. It may not be one of the great musicals, but seen on a big screen with full stereo, it has its moments.

Thank you RE for an excellent post.
It seems that Molly Brown was one of the Hall's biggest hits of the decade. The summer of '64 had the Worlds Fair and this was a Debbie Reynolds musical after all. Time magazine(not Variety!) as well reported that the film had 21,000 visitors a day. Too bad about the 70mm print.

I would have loved to have worked with/for Ben. Is he still around?
Regarding 70mm installations, while I was working in Hawaii
(1972-1982)I pleaded with management to make better use of the five 70mm theatres, They bauked about things like shipping costs of the large film cans to the islands, and did not want to pay the premium projectionist pay, many of them felt the audience does not know the difference. I was relentless however, and bugged the hell out of them. Finally when I was appointed chief projectionist, one of my jobs was to upgrade the projection booths in all of the theatres.
I got my hands on a 70mm reel of "Fame" and invited the bosses to the Cinerama for a demonstration of what I had planned for the theatres. I did not tell them they were going to see a 70mm film. When it was over, the CEO said it was the best thing he had seen and heard in quite a while, "are all the theatres going to look and sound like that" he asked, yes I said, as soon as you begin importing more 70mm prints. I had convinced them, and 70mm prints finally began arriving, at one point in early 1980s we had three prints playing at the same time. We had started installing Dolby in just about all the theatres by the time I left, we did not have Dolby in time for "E.T.", however Universal struck a 70mm six track mag print without the Dolby encode just for us to play at the Waikiki #1. As for some of the management guys, like they say in the South Pacific song, "They have to be taught".

Here’s a Program from March, 1958:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-karamazov1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-karamazov2.jpg

One of the good things about going to a Catholic high school was that you got a few days off for religious feasts. One such feast was St. Patrick’s Day, when you were sometimes encouraged to attend or perhaps even march in the parade up Fifth Avenue. Despite my Irish surname, I’ve never done that, and probably never will. The closest I came to it was that day in 1958 when my friend and I (his surname blatently Irish too) thought vaguely about checking out the parade and headed off for St. Patrick’s Cathedral. But when we emerged from the subway at W 50 Street, RCMH loomed in front of us, and “The Brothers Karamazov” beckoned us inside. Marilyn Monroe had been touted for the role of Grushenka, but we had seen Maria Schell in René Clément’s “Gervaise” (at the Baronet) and thought that she might play an appropriately wide-eyed naif in the part. Before we knew it, we were sitting in the third mezzanine smoking cigarettes and laughing at the Russian accents (or lack of them).

What I remember most about the stage show is that during the newsreel, the orchestra pit rose abruptly to the stage level without the orchestra on it (you could see that very well from the mezzanine). When the contour curtain descended on the title-strip announcing the next attraction (accompanied by the grand organ), it remained fractionally in place and then suddenly drew upward again, revealing a fully set stage with the entire orchestra on it and ready to launch into the “Lecuona Fantasy.” The effect was stunning. I had always thought that the overture in front of the closed curtain (usually bathed in green, sometimes in red light) served the purpose of allowing stagehands to send up the screen and arrange the set, but now I realized that the stage could be ready for action in a matter of seconds, all prepared as the film portion was winding down. As I recall, RCMH staged this effect a few times in my experience. Once was with “Show Boat” in summer, 1951, when, after the newsreel ended, the orchestra rose from the pit and rolled on stage in a mamouth band wagon and played Americana tunes, more to my liking than the “classical” music it usually undertook. The rapidity of it all amazed me, but I was too young then to reflect upon the mechanics.

When I returned home, I reported to my parents that I had watched a good portion of the parade. It’s a good thing that MGM’s version of Dostoevsky didn’t include the Grand Inquisitor episode from the novel: that would have scared the hell out of me for designing such a lie.

"The Unsinkable Molly Brown" was a good musical not a great one. It was far better than a lot of the big budget musical bombs of the late 1960's. I remember my parents going to see it at the huge Fox Oakland in 1964 and enjoying it. The film was a major hit in the United States but didn't do well in Europe.It was the last musical hit for M-G-M until "Thats Entertainment" in 1974. My personal favorite "Singing in the Rain" is considered the best musical ever made which was produced in 1952 also starring Debbie Reynolds and M-G-M. I think the Music Hall at least once a year for at least 4 weeks produce a stage show with the Rockettes and classic films paying homage to its histoical past. It would have to be a quality stage show with quality classic fims. It would have to be promoted properly and have a corporate sponsor.brucec

Brucec. You'll be seeing the Music Hall used for shuttle launches and spelling bees before you see a film and stage show there again.

This may be redundant, but in the very first Christmas stage show in 1933, the precision dancers were still known as the Roxyettes. They portrayed Christmas tree ornaments in the grand finale. "Roxy" Rothafel was credited as the show's producer, with Leon Leonidoff, Vincente Minnelli, and Florence Rogge as assistants. Besides "Flying Down to Rio," the screen portion included a Walt Disney "Silly Symphony" in color entitled "The Night Before Christmas." The booking opened on December 21, 1933, and ran for two weeks. On January 4, 1934, RCMH switched to "If I Were Free" and a stage show that one critic described as "a simple, abstract relief from the Christmas exertions."

Here’s a Program from December 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-sayonara1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/cinematreasures/rcmh-sayonara2.jpg

I wound up seeing “Sayonara” twice at RCMH. It wasn’t the first nor the last time that that happened—I ‘ll spare the details, ‘cept to say that in later years when I reported to my friends that I saw a terrific show at RCMH, they wanted to see it too, and I invariably caved in and went back to see it with them. With “Sayonara,” the situation was more delicate. I had seen it with high-school friends in the first week of its run, and thought it exotic and wonderfully liberating in a United-Nations sort of way (whatever happened to the UN now that that troglodyte Bolton is, um, representing us?).

The time-frame occurred when, according to my parents, I was seeing far too many movies, growing far too thin and pale from spending too much time in front of the screen, and developing alarmist pink views about the world and the state of the nation. So, naturally, I did not report to my folks that I had entered the golden arches to see Marlon Brando and Miiko Take fornicate hours after the film had opened. Then, one day in mid-December, my mom said, “You’re so thin and pale. Let’s get rid of your pink cast. Marlon Brando is such a wonderful actor. Let’s go to RCMH to see the Christmas show!” I gulped and said, “Sure, I won’t turn down a trip to RCMH.”

The first time, I thought the film explored a part of Japan that George Hersey had written about (you gotta think mid-‘50s to fathom what that means). The second time, I thought the film was dull (and I’d stand by that verdict today). What I most remember was that, during the dual-suicide (Red Buttons of TV clown fame and the wasted Miyoshi Umeki, an AA winner cited in eighth place on the Showplace Program—an awful scene for a Christmas show at RCMH)—an roar emanated from backstage, behind the screen. The first time, I figured that stagehands were bringing out the nativity creche for the stage show that would begin approximately twenty minutes later. The second time, I knew that the stagehands were doing exactly that. A year later, with “Auntie Mame,” the same roar went up: it co-incided with the scene twenty minutes from the end of the film when Roz Russell delicately accepts an sticky-sweet cocktail from prospective in-laws—“O, diaquiries, how nice.” Roar. I’m sure that the stagehands were awfully busy at that point, four times each day. But—camels and magi be damned--the noise interfered with the film.

After the show, my mom brought me to Ho Ho’s Chinese Pavilion on W 50 Street to fatten me up. But at the age of fourteen, I couldn’t dare tell my friends that I’d accompanied her to see “Sayonara” a second time at RCMH. “Mu gu gai pan” barely added poundage to my frame—I starved to save money to see films—but I thought it worth the subterfuge to find out what a second viewing of “Sayonara” at RCMH might reveal.

What a great story and a great memory Bill, beautifully written too.Thats what CT needs more of.

Does anyone know if there's a problem at photobucket.com? I haven't been able to connect to it since yesterday morning, and I have an account there. However, I notice that BoxOfficeBill posted something there yesterday, so perhaps the problem is with my computer.

Warren, I have had problems with several sites since yesterday.
A lot of servers seem to be down. Thankfully not CT.

Warren, I have had problems with several sites since yesterday,
a lot of servers seem to be down. Thankfully not CT.

It might be of interest to some that the stage show that played with "Sayonara" (see BoxOfficeBill's October 5 post above) was recorded by RCA Victor the following March and released later that year as the Living Stereo album "Christmas Holidays at RCMH" (LSP 1010). It has recently been re-released by Classic Compact Discs (www.classicrecs.com) under the same title, as LSOCD-1010. The new CD sports the same wrap-around cover shot of the Rockettes in red from the Kodak Colorama display in Grand Central Station that year, and includes a scaled-down but unedited version of the original multi-page booklet with the story of producing the show and tons of full-colour backstage photos - plus another Rockettes fold-out!

The recording starts out with the original Nativity in its entirety, the segue into the show, the Cinderella Ballet, the Commercial Carollers, the Rockettes dance routines (all that's missing is the sound of 72 tap shoes going at it!) and the finale. I never saw the original show, so someone may want to enlighten me on this, but the primary "theme" song, if you will, of the show on the recording was the recent hit song "Chances Are". It shows up in the part before the ballet and again in the finale. I am curious about this because the songs used were usually listed in the programme and in this case neither "Chances Are" nor "Cinderella" by Eric Coates are credited.

In any case, the crowning glory of the recording for this lifelong Dick Leibert fan is a 10-minute Christmas organ medley - what some of us believe to be his single most perfect recording. It is the first stereo recording by Leibert of the big organ. It is also the first appearance of his own piece "Under the Chrictmas Mistletoe". He often told the story, with variations each telling, that he was noodling around playing anything that came to him while the engineers were setting their levels, and the producer questioned one of the livelier pieces he had played, an Irish jig he had written years earlier and called "Brickbats and Shillelaghs". According to Leibert, he did some quick thinking and said it was a Christmas piece he had written called "Under the Christmas Mistletoe" - a title that perfectly matches the cadence of the first four bars of the music. The producer suggested they put it into the medley, and it became an instant hit with organ fans, being published not long after and showing up on another Leibert-RCA Christmas album years later.

I have found both the album versions (mono and stereo) and the new CD version on eBay and they are well worth the price to any RCMH fan. It is also especially valuable as the only record (literally) of Leonidoff's original Nativity pageant (see previous discussions on the more recent Christmas Spectaculars, above), save for an inferior recording (IMHO) of a later show released in the early seventies on another label.

Close your eyes and listen to the CD through earphones and you will think you are right there in the Hall. It's hard to tell if the orchestra was recorded in the studio or in the theatre, but it is obvious to these ears that the organ used with the orchestra during the segue from the Nativity into the show (called the "Interlude" on the album) is the big one in the theatre and not the smaller one in the studio upstairs. If anyone can enlighten me on that, I would be grateful. This album has been part of my Christmases for the past 42 years and I never get tired of it.

1961 "Fanny"
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1960 "The World of Susie Wong"
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Here’s a Program from November, 1957:

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I know that Leonard Maltin rates “Don’t Go Near the Water” as a dud, but as a gutter-minded fifteen-year-old connoiseur of double entendre in the late ‘50s, I found this film unexpectedly hilarious and still think of it fondly today. Part of the delight might have come from the sharp contrast between the rowdy, adolescent tenor of the film and the stately, sublime, ever-so-tasteful demeanor of RCMH. This contrast shapes up in the stage show that accompanied the film: the theme focused on the music of Victor Herbert from start to finish, beginning with the Overture’s “Herbert Melodies” and ending with the Rockettes’ “March of the Wooden Soldiers [here transvestized to ‘Wooden Toys’].” It was a turn-of-the-century show that my grandparents would have loved as much as the film moved my potty-mouthed pals to spasms of laughter. The “Wooden Soldiers,” was of course a routine that usually accompanied Christmas shows with a Tannenbaum set. For this Thanksgiving production, Leonidoff used a toy-shop set and clad the seventy-two legs in rag-doll costumes.

Geoffrey: Thanks for the info about the RMCH recordings. In this program, look at the notation on the “Announcing… the Great Christmas Show” page. It entices us to buy any of three LP recordings offered by three competing record companies: “Showplace of the Nation” by Roulette, “RCMH” by Columbia, and “Holiday Music” by Columbia. The subsequent recording of the “Sayonara” stage show music evidently updated the lot. The stage show with “Sayonara” was an abbreviated one because the film ran twenty-seven minutes over two hours. Stage shows conventionally began with an organ intermezzo after the film, then the newsreel under dimly blue-lit arches as crowds still searched for seats, often a cartoon, and finally the “Announcing our next attraction” strip accompanied by the organ. The orchestra would rise while tuning up as the curtain descended on the strip. In the case of this Christmas show, the organ intermezzo segued directly into the tuned-up orchestral strains, skipping the rest. Every fraction of a minute counted.

Bill do you remember the fact hat the newsreels were made up of bits and pieces of all the different studio news reels for each week. There would be a clip from "News of the Day", "Warner Pathe" and perhaps one from "Universal News", usually ending with a sports clip from the one and only "Movietone News". All of this proceded by RCMH's own news intro simply called Radio City Music Hall News. In addition, RCMH never ran conventional movie trailers but instead substituted a more dignified rolling narrative produced I think by National Sreeen Service. No loud obnoxious previews, It was after all a very classy joint.

The musicians' union is apparently getting ready to go on strike. I received a private e-mail from a musician-friend, urging me to not buy any tix for RCMH events until the union settles its differences with Cablevision, which runs the theatre. This could cause a dent on advance sales for the Christmas show, though I had no plans of my own to attend.

Warren,that is disturbing news. Rob,any news/comments?

New York needs a Christmas Show on a stage to compliment the one on the streets, so I hope there won't be a strike.

Hopefully a strike is averted. My Mom plans on splurging for a fistful of tickets to take me and my kids, my brother and his kids - the whole clan - to this year's X-mas show. I've explained to her that it just aint what it used to be - and particularly at these stupifyingly high prices - but, she wants a nice family holiday excursion into the City and who am I to spoil her plans?

My parents never took me to Radio CIty. Nope. It was my Aunt Lee (and later my Grandad) who always took me into Manhattan for shows and special nights out. The first movie I remember seeing here was Disney's "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" and then back again a couple of years later for their animated take on "Robin Hood." I remember they showed the coming attraction reel for "Mame" at either "Robin Hood" or the '73 musical "Tom Sawyer" and it seemed like it was a 10 minute preview. I can still see my cousin leaning in to me and saying, "We won't have to come and see that one, they're practically showing the whole movie right now!" Of course, we went back and saw "Mame" anyway. I also recall a movie with David Niven as a tutor for the children of a Japanese ambassador - I think it was called "Paper Tiger." I also saw the reissue of "Fantasia" here (I posted on the Ziegfeld Theater site that I thought I saw it there, but I'm obviously mistaken).

The last movie I saw at Radio City was a version of the Prince and the Pauper entitled "Crossed Swords" - a lighthearted all-star costume adventure in the same vein as the recent (at the time) pair of Richard Lester Musketeer films. It had been billed as the Hall's last attraction (in fact, I have to dig around for the souvenier booklet I kept that has a sticker on the cover with the words "Final Attraction"), but I remember the Anthony Quinn flick "Caravans" playing there afterwords. Anyway, someone else noted here that "The Promise" in 1979 was the last first run movie and stage show attraction.

I remember the line to get in would stretch down 50th Street and then zig-zag on the plaza behind the building like the queue's at Disney World (though this was several years before I ever made it down to Disney World and - I suspect - lines such as this had been forming in the plaza long before Walt Disney ever conceived of his first amusement park). I never saw a movie from any of the three balconies... we always seemed to get relatively decent orchestra seats, even when the crowds were large.

In 1980 I caught 5 of the 10 concerts held here by the Grateful Dead (including the Halloween show that was simulcast via satellite to theaters in other parts of the country). In celebration of their 15th anniversary at the time, the Dead played an acoustic set as well as two electric sets for some 5 plus hour evenings. Good times. The owners of the Hall were not thrilled that a poster for these shows depicted a giant skeleton leaning against the famed marquee of the theater... Perhaps they should have just been happy that the place hadn't been gutted for office space or a parking garage at this point! I know I was and still am.

I didn't make it back to Radio City for nearly 20 years, by which time I was a father of two and had taken my kids to see a live Barney the Dinasaur show of all things! That was after the '99 renovations. Finally sat in the balcony for that one. Caught the Christmas show a couple of years back and was even able to snag tickets for the Tony Awards in 2001 (saw Mel Brooks accept his record number of awards for The Producers). Being in the place nowadays - particularly up in one of the balconies - it's hard to imagine how a movie would play here. I mean it is so vast and the balconies are set so far back. I remember the screen being nice and big when I was a kid in attendance, but it would have to be enormous to satisfy the desires of today's moviegoers if you were planning on filling the theater right up to the third tier. And would there be an acoustical challenge with DTS surround sound in such a space?

Bedknobs and Broomsticks was my first movie here, too.

The Rockettes also demonstrated yesterday over contract talks with Cablevision about "maternity leave." They, too, are threatening to strike if they don't get their demands.

Do we know why the musicians are unhappy?

Vito- go to Http://local 802 afm.org/ read all about the
musicians demands.

Thanks Denpiano, That is disturbing news, musicians are artists who deserve proper compensation for their contribution to the music halls success, I wish them well. I am also very disturbed by the lack of respect Cablevision showed towards the Rockettes by having security people escort them out of the theatre on Friday. A bit much wouldn't you say? Of course there is always two sides to every story, but I would like to know what prompted Cablevision to take such dramatic and drastic measures.

Thanks Denpiano, That is disturbing news, musicians are artists who deserve proper compensation for their contribution to the music halls success, I wish them well. I am also very disturbed by the lack of respect Cablevision showed towards the Rockettes by having security people escort them out of the theatre on Friday. A bit much wouldn't you say? Of course there is always two sides to every story, but I would like to know what prompted Cablevision to take such dramatic and drastic measures.

1954 "Rhapsody" starring Elizabeth Taylor and the next feature "Rose Marie".
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Display my email address on posts and comments? No
If 'No' above, accept private email from other users? Yes

ok, we did that. Does anyone know: what do we click to send
a message privately to another member's email? Thanx!

I saw King Kong on the giant screen during an Art Deco show
at Radio City during the '70's. Cool!

March of 1955 MGM's Cinemascope "Hit the Deck"
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Robert it would be wonderful if you could post the opening ads which are so much more entertaining and colorful with a PR description of the stage show.

Concerning musicians. They are always very unhappy people who always feel unappreciated and always cause tons of problems for the Met the City Ballet and Broadway. Not only do they make a more than decent salary compared to us plebes but they in addition always get pick up gigs and give lessons for pocket money. I always think they have a major chip on their shoulder considering they are not on the stage as performers(and they all probably feel they should be playing for Vienna or Berlin.)
What a tiresome troublemaking bunch.

In 1940, RCMH lost its crown as the nation's largest theatre to the newly-opened Hall of Music at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana. The Purdue Hall of Music had a reported seating capacity of 6,208, or about 200 more than RCMH. It was said to be similar in design to RCMH and had some of the same architects. It's apparently still operating, but I haven't been able to find photographs. I would appreciate comments from anyone who's visited.

Warren—

Here are two links to the Purdue.edu website with information about the Elliott Hall of Music. The first opens with a sharp color picture of the Hall (yes, its floor plan resembles that of RCMH) and includes a virtual tour of the facility (if you download to software to make it happen—I didn’t):

http://1061web22.itap.purdue.edu/HTML/HallOfMusic/

The second includes an excerpt from the Hall’s original mission statement (“this new Hall of Music, then, will serve Purdue University's first purpose-the building of its students into adequate and cultured citizens of the world”) and from its current function (directed by the superb film historian Ben Lawton, it serves as a program venue for the university’s departments of Theatre, Dance, University Bands, Liberal Arts, and Computer Graphics Technology as well as for students in the entertainment technology and production support industry).

http://tholian.sla.purdue.edu/film-studies/hall_mission.htm

Oddly, however, I was unable to connect with a schedule of “current productions” when I clicked the button for that topic. Until now, I had never heard of this auditorium and its connection with RCMH. Thanks for the post.

The Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles, CA is always quoted as America's largest theatre. Opened on 23rd January 1926 its original seating capacity was for 6,717, current seating capacity 6,308, it was designed in a Moorish style by architects John C. Austin and A.M. Edelman with the interior designed by noted theatre archichect G. Albert Lansburgh. It is still equipped with its Moeller 4Manual/67Ranks theatre organ and is Designated an Historic-Cultural Monument.

I know that some believe that it is/was never a theatre and merely an 'auditorium' for special events. But it has served as a full time movie theatre for a short period from 25th August 1928 with a silent double-bill;Marion Davies in "The Fair Co-Ed" and Edmund Lowe in "Dressed to Kill". It also has a place in movie history as a location for sequences of the original 1933 version of "King Kong" and the 1954 version of "A Star is Born" among many others. It was also the 'home' for the Academy Award's Oscar's ceremony for many years. It is also used for concerts, dance shows, just like the current use of Radio City Music Hall today.

It has been submitted several times by different people for inclusion on Cinema Treasures, but has always been rejected as 'not being suitable' for inclusion on the site.

What do other poster's on this site think about including the Shrine Auditorium as a Cinema Treasure?

Did Lost Horizon play at the Hall? I always thought it opened in Times Square as a hardticket(perhaps the Globe?)Was it a move over to the Hall? In a 1938 Music Hall souvenir book it is shown as one of the films to have played there.
If so I didn't realize it was playing second run films that late.

Yes, Vincent, "Lost Horizon" had its NYC premiere engagement at the Globe Theatre, where it opened March 3, 1937, on a reserved-seat, two-a-day policy. The booking continued until June 16, when the movie was withdrawn until its general release in September. By that time, Columbia had received many complaints from exhibitors about its lengthy 132 minutes, so the film was cut to 116 minutes for the general release, which kicked off at Radio City Music Hall on September 23 (with stage show entitled "Interlude"). Of course, no mention was made to the public that the movie had been "streamlined." The RCMH ads merely said "This great picture is presented in New York for the first time at Music Hall prices." Those prices were considerably less than at the Globe, where tix had been as expensive as $2 for peak-time performances...At RCMH, "Lost Horizon" followed the first-run "Prisoner of Zenda," and thus made Ronald Colman the first major star to have two successive films at the "Showplace of the Nation."

Thanks Warren.
As I've said before I only wish the Music Hall had followed this policy in the late 60's as there were a number of films they could have shown after their Times Square reserved seat runs(which were pretty short in any case.)The kinds of films which would have brought crowds to the Hall even after their first run engagements.
Considering the muck the Hall was showing from 67 to 70 it made no sense to hold onto a policy which it had never enforced in the first place.

Yes, Vincent: I wonder whether it would have been feasible for RCMH to pick up the '60s musicals and other spectacles after their roadshow runs? Here’s a Program from October ’57:

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Some film historians claim that “Les Girls” was the last great Hollywood (read: MGM) musical to be made. After it, Gene Kelly retired from starring in song-and-dance films, just as Fred Astaire did a few months earlier upon finishing “Silk Stockings.” Future musicals might be bigger and splashier, but from one to another there would be no continuity in talent and craft such as the old studio system had nourished. And most of them would open as hard-ticket roadshows, which removed immediacy and spontaneity from seeing them and prevented RCMH from booking them. Little did we know this would happen when we saw “Les Girls” in October ’57. I don’t believe that at the time I was aware of either Kelly’s or Astaire’s retirement. Their swan songs, both deploying music and lyrics by Cole Porter, were just two in a stream of hit musicals that poured forth from several studios that year. So what if “Les Girls” seemed a little flat in its score and a bit depressive in its plot (a musical about a cad and attempted suicide?). We were sure that there would be new musicals to see in the coming months and new chances for Kelly and others to prove their stuff. Only later did we realize that it wouldn’t happen.

The stage show was exceptional for its emphasis on dance, and particularly colorful for a Russell Markert production, which tended to be more reserved and high-brow than Leonidorf’s spectaculars. The Ballet danced twice, and the highlight of the program came with the dazzlingly athletic star turn of Geoffrey Holder and Carmen de Lavallade in a Caribbean setting. They might have stolen the show from the Rockettes who followed, though that’s hard to imagine. The steam curtain and feathers topped it all off. Eye-popping.

I thought that Gigi had that title-a film that should have gone to the Music Hall rather than the Sutton(Millie is another one.)
I imagine that film historians today have never seen Les Girls or Gigi and have no interest whatsoever.
Yet they will write books on Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. Cool!

"Gigi" had a long run at the Royale Theatre as a hard-ticket roadshow. I doubt that RCMH would have even considered a "move-over" after that.

I always thought that the run at the Royale wasn't all that long and Gigi had to leave due to the booking of a legit show. It however would have been beautiful at the Hall and considering that the Royale is fairly small and the booking exclusive(I don't believe it played on Long Island or in North Jersey) the crowds would have been tremendous. Millie though was playing in Monclair(any Long island booking?) concurrently with the Criterion run so that would have been a problem.
Sweet Charity, Goodby Mr. Chips and Song of Norway only played a few months on Broadway(probably to not many patrons) so they too would have been good at the Hall.

Local 802 has called for a rally on 6th Ave. Oct.26th
at 5PM. Apparently the powers that be have not settled
there differences with orchestra.

Cablevision wants to cut the musicians' pay for Christmas Spectacular. For 75 years, the musicians of Radio City Music Hall have been an irreplaceable part of the Christmas Spectacular tradition. Now, if Cablevision doesn't get their way, they've threatened to shut down the entire show or rip off the public by putting on the show with taped music or amateur players, the Rockettes were escourted by security out of the theatre on Sunday,
I guess they plan on using some high kicking high school girls to take their place. They are even trying to put together a scab (non union)orchestra of musicians affected by the recent hurricane disasters.
Now I am sure many of you will disagree with me here but I must speak my mind. If cablevision continues with this plan of action I would hope the muscians union will picket the theatre and all other unions will respect the musicians and not enter the theatre. Let's see them try and put on the show without stage hands, projectionists and electricaians. As far as I am concerned, Cablevision can shut the place down, board it up or turn it in to a parking lot for all I care but they cannot be allowed to treat the dedicated people who have made the theatre what it is today in such a disgraceful manner.

Please forgive any typo's or grammer errors, I am mad as hell.

vito-
Rockettes have settled their dispute. They wanted 20
spots on the roster. as far as solidarity is concerned,
I feel sad that this may not be the case.

During '67 when the Rockettes went on strike the musicians played. Maybe somebody out there with a knowledge of entertainers union history in New York can shed light on solidarity amoung the unions.

Denpiano, unfortunatly you may be right, I am sure the lawyers have checked into other contracts to be sure nanagemant could pull this off without losing the other unions. As for the Rockettes, did they also get the maternity leave they asked for?

Also I am not forgiving of management for basically throwing them out of the building on Sunday, I guess no one remembers it was the rockettes who spearheaded the drive to save the theatre when the wrecking ball was about to strike.

Vito, I don't know about the maternity leave issue. None of the
people I spoke to know about it. I've worked on the Wurlitzer for the
past 12 years and have not heard a thing from the Organists or
management about its use. Im CONCERNED ! usually the guys are in for practice by now.

The Rockettes of 1967 worked 52 weeks a year where the current Rockettes only work 8-9 weeks per year. Im concerned that by recent events Cablevision would be very reluctant to bring back any in house stage shows during other times of the year. I hope both sides are flexible and compromise and are fair. I often wonder why London is so much cheaper to open a show compared to New York City.brucec

That makes the musicians of '67 look even worse. The Rockettes can dance to a recording but who wants to hear these musicians without the Rockettes at Christmas? By the way orchestras today are so miked with the sound pumped up it might as well be a recording. The magic is gone.

Bravo Vincent! certain people wanted to amplify the organ to the surround system installed in the theatre. Was a time the organ
was the loudest sound there! So much for the "Mighty Wurlitzer"
You're correct, everything is overdone today. No quality,
all quantity!

I was under the impression that for a certain number of weeks per year, the Rockettes also worked elsewhere at places such as Branson, Atlantic City, Las Vegas, and some of the major cities with performing arts centers. Is that no longer true?

There will be a musicians rally Oct.26th , 5PM between 50th & 51st
Streets as reported on the unions web site.

1938
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1938
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Curiously, on the very day in 1937 that "Lost Horizon" opened here after a previous hard-ticket run at another theatre, "The Good Earth" did the same at the Capitol (but sans stage show). "Earth," which had enjoyed a long roadshow run at the Astor, stayed three weeks at the Capitol. "Lost Horizon" and stage show managed only two weeks at RCMH, and was followed by "Stage Door" and ss entitled "Victor Herbert's Melodies," which ran three weeks. On October 28, 1937, "Victoria the Great" and ss "The Brimming Stein" opened, but survived only one week. "The Awful Truth" and ss "Manhattan Serenade" opened November 4, and remained for three weeks, followed by "Nothing Sacred" and ss "On The Great Stage," which also stayed for three weeks. On December 16, "I'll Take Romance" opened with the Christmas holiday ss and held for two weeks. On December 30, "Tovarich" and ss "Carnival: A Dance Spectacle" took over. The first booking of 1938 opened on January 13, with Walt Disney's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" and ss "The Magazine Rack," the fourth edition of a revue series paying tribute to well-known publications.

Here's an opening day ad for "Snow White," which stayed for five weeks, the longest run at RCMH up to that time:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/snow.jpg
It was replaced February 17, 1938 by "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" and ss "Cosmopolitan," which held for two weeks. "Bringing Up Baby" and ss "Winter Cruise" opened March 3, but could sustain only one week, apparently due to rapidly fading popularity of Katharine Hepburn. "Jezebel" and ss "Gazette" followed on March 10.

I see that Chase now has its name on the marquee, albeit somewhat discreetly. The Chase Radio City Music Hall? Why not if we could get them to sponsor an Astaire/Rodgers or MGM summer festival. Though I wonder if any of the 30 year olds who work for Chase have ever heard of Astaire and Rodgers. Or RKO. Ok how about an Adam Sandler or Ben Stiller festival?

Couldn't that be misinterpreted as Chase Radio City Music Hall from Manhattan?

Ginger Rogers. Richard Rodgers. Either spelling, still obscure.

I guess for the Rodgers it would be Words and Music(Christmas '48) and Flower Drum Song(Thanksgiving '61.)
Anybody know of any other Music Hall movies with Rodgers music?

"Billy Rose's Jumbo"...Also, Rodgers songs were performed in some RCMH films, such as "Ten Cents a Dance" in "Love Me or Leave Me."

What is the basis for the introductory claim that Edward Durell Stone was architect of RCMH? It's my understanding that interior designer Donald Deskey was the key figure. Stone was only his supervisor in a firm called The Associated Architects, which was commissioned by Rockefeller Center to design the theatre.

I remember a class trip in 1976 to see this at Christmas time.
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So will there be a Christmas show this year? Just curious. Not that I really care. With the show as it is now they could just as well have wet t shirt contests for the Rockettes four times a day for two months and it would be just as reverent and probably a lot more entertaining. And Chase you'd make a helluva lot more money. Just think of the beer tabs sold throught the house!

Unless some union throws a strike, there will be a Christmas show this year. Tickets have been on sale for many months now. Details can be found at the RCMH website listed in the introduction above.

I can only hope there will be solidarity with all the unions and they shut down the show. Local 802 will hold a rally today at 5pm

It seems there will be a show regardless of musicians. Virtual
orchestra anyone? The post reported ( small article ) that they
are at an impass with union and Will use other means..
What a mess!

What I don't understand is they only do two months. What are they asking for that Cablevision won't give them?
What does a virtual orchestra consist of? Are these musicians scabs on tape? Or is it done with synthesizers? What about the organists? Are they a different union? Will they play? Are they then crossing the picket line if they do? Is then every performer then crossing that line?

I am responding to Warren's October 25 question about Edward Durell Stone being credited as the designer of the Music Hall in the introduction to this page. I don't know where the writers got their information, but it is true. If you read pages 216 through 232 of Daniel Okrent's 2003 book "Great Fortune - The Epic of Rockefeller Center" you will find a detailed description of who is credited with what and the process they went through. Carol Herselle Krinsky in her 1978 book "Rockefeller Center" fills in a lot of the detail and provides a number of excellent photos of the auditorium models.

According to Okrent, "responsibility for the Music Hall fell to [architect Wallace K.] Harrison... to Harrison must go much of the credit for the theatre's radical break with the recent history of American theater architecture". Harrison hired Stone to work on the project and it was Stone, along with a team of architects and others, who evolved the final auditorium design using René Chambellan's clay models. Krinsky writes: "Edward Durrell Stone who was in charge of the designs of both theaters [the Music Hall and the Center] worked on this problem [of the organ grilles] during the summer... Raymond Hood then suggested concealing the grilles behind radial lines on the ceiling... By September 17 [1931], a model with this arrangement was ready, complete with Stone's scalloped curtain design." Okrent credits Roxy with the idea of three shallow cantilevered mezzanines instead of one huge balcony, and says that he insisted on only two things: red seats and at least 6,201 of them so there were more than in the Roxy Theatre, which he had left in early 1931. Okrent continues: "the finished auditorium accommodated only 5,960, but Roxy got his number up to the required 6,201 by counting the seats in the orchestra pit, the operators' stools in the elevators, the chairs in front of the makeup mirrors in the powder rooms." Okrent credits Stone with the exterior innovation of concealing the fire escapes behind metal screens, and with the vertical signs and marquees. He continues: "Inside the building he was responsible for all the public spaces that give the Music Hall its grandeur. The most notable of these was the Grand Foyer..."

Donald Deskey was proclaimed winner of the interior design competition (more correctly an interior decoration competition) on June 27, 1932 with the announcement that he would be responsible for "the interior furnishings of the Music Hall and its '31 auxiliary rooms' - for the most part, its bathrooms and lounges" plus what Okrent calls "Donald Deskey's masterwork, an exquisite group of rooms known as the Roxy Suite. If Nick and Nora Charles had lived above a theater, this is what their apartment would have looked like."

David A. Hanks in his 1987 biography of Deskey says: "At the depth of the Depression, Deskey's investment of $5,000 dollars for a spectacular presentation, which included numerous color renderings as well as actual samples of carpet and fabric designs, was a risk for his business... The work included thirty lobby areas, smoking rooms, retiring rooms, foyers and lounges... The employment of [leading artists] to assist with the Music Hall scheme was as important as Deskey's own design for the furnishings. Although each artist worked independently, Deskey coordinated their work to assure an integrated, harmonious whole."

I hope this adds a bit of clarification. Deskey has been so often credited with the "interior design" of the theatre that he is assumed to have done just that - designed it. In fact, he was in charge of decorating and furnishing interior spaces designed by many others. And what decorations and furnishings they are! Though he apparently hated the Ezra Winter mural in the foyer and the 50th street medallions, the cumulative effect of his work on the interior is what makes the Music Hall so breathtaking when considered as a whole. It is the reason I found the place so warm and comfortable when I went there at least twice a month in my college years from 1967-71 (the real reason was to hear Dick Leibert performing live, but it was so exquisite a space that I just loved to wander about exploring - not wanting to leave).

Wow!

Geoffrey- Great Comments, excellent! I too went to hear Liebert and
later on Ray Bohr, both last of a Dead breed. Concerning Virtual
orchestras, they are basically just that, a computer that uses a
real conducter( computer operator) that conducts this machine to play arrangements of REAL orchestra sounds. I've seen and heard it
and I can tell you, its scary!! Vincent- The organists are 802 members and were at the protest yesterday across from the Hall.
I take care of the organ and I put the locks on it when I left yesterday. No one has come in to use it as yet and we are just tuning and general maintenance.

Geoffrey--

Thanks for the clarification in your splendid post. Daniel Okrent, until last June the Public Editor of the NY Times (appointed in 2003), has written generalist books on such topics as baseball and New England, and he gets his stuff right. Carol Krinsky, an architectural historian of distinction who teaches at NYU, sorted out the problems and issues in her 1978 book. She recounts that the design of Rockefeller Center was thoroughly collaborative as it enlisted the talents of several companies (Todd, Robertson, and Todd; Reinhard and Hofmeister; Corbett, Harrison, and MacMurray)under the combined name of The Associated Architects. Harrison designed the building and appointed Stone as design supervisor of the auditorium. Ground was broken in summer '31 and construction was well underway by the following June when Deskey won the competition for interior decorating, which itself had enlisted the talents of mural, furniture, fabric, and lighting artists. The rapidity of its completion is staggering.

Here’s a Program from September, 1957, a quarter-century later when RCMH was at its height of day-to-day operating success:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-PJ1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-PJ2.jpg
RCMH was flooded with long-running musicals that year. “The Pajama Game” opened as its Labor Day attraction, the rare Warner Brothers musical that could stand up to the MGM competition flanking it. This program does not note that Bob Fosse did the choreography, but who could ever forget “Steam Heat” or “Hernando’s Hideway” after seeing Carol Haney performing them? Four years earlier Fosse and Haney had both appeared on the RCMH screen in the amazing “From This Moment On” number in “Kiss Me Kate.” Rich stuff.

The stage show matched the tune fest on the screen, from the Gershwin overture to the featured appearance of India Adams in two segments. Adams had dubbed the singing voice of Cyd Charisse in “The Band Wagon” and held a steady career performing B’way pop in supperclubs and variety shows. The Foursome who accompanied her as an opener to the Rockettes was not likely the original group that had introduced “Biding My Time” in “Girl Crazy” and had appeared with Eleanor Powell in “Born to Dance,” but it quite possibly revived the latter’s style in the ‘50s. In ’57 their sort of pop music was still holding sway after more than a quarter-century of dominance. Then, within a couple of years, it would suddenly seem horribly anachronistic to most tastes.

Georgie Kaye was a stand-up comedian who appeared regularly on the Ed Sullivan TV show. He offered a nice balance to the Ponchielli ballet. You could always predict that the RCMH stage show would build to a jazzy climax when the overture was by Gershwin and the opening segment featured a classical ballet such as “The Dance of the Hours.” The latter, elegant and refined and sumptuously staged as it was, seemed extravagant barrier to get through in completing the trajectory from Gershwin to the Rockettes. In a way, RCMH spoiled me for ballet. The company was super disciplined and super precise (a bit in the manner of the precision of the Rockettes) and super large. When, a few years later, I found myself attending Sadler’s Wells and Bolshoi, I thought them smaller and less pointedly in-synch than Margaret Sande’s and Florence Rogge’s dancers. For all its exaggeration, RCMH’s Corps de Ballet introduced serious dance to hundreds of thousands of us who otherwise would not have bothered to seek it out.

The notice for “Sayonara” as an up-coming attraction does not indicate that it would be the Christmas show. I wonder whether the management had planned it for an earlier release, perhaps as the Thanksgiving show. Its length and brooding content had always struck me as inappropriate for the holiday season. Heaven knows that the hold-over runs of musicals such as “The Pajama Game” that year would have pushed back its opening in any event.

Hey folks... I can't find a good spot on this site to pose this question, but it seems this page gets hit a lot so I'll give it a shot: There used to be a restaurant in mid-town that was located in a sunken plaza (like the concourses at the McGraw-Hill or Paramount Plaza buildings). The place had an automotive theme where patrons would dine at tables fashioned after varying makes and models of vintage cars. There was one particular room towards the back that was set up like a drive-in theater and all the "cars" faced a screen and you could watch a movie while you ate.

I remember going there with my family when I was maybe 9 or 10 years old and the movie we saw was "Airport" - which would have been 4 or 5 years old at that point and I can recall having already seen the movie on Network Television. In fact, I remember thinking that the version I was seeing was somehow different from the one I'd seen on TV because of it's widescreen use of split images. This was probably the very first time I remember being aware of the concept of aspect ratios and how certain films were somehow not being presented on TV as they were originally intended.

Anyway... does my description of the restaurant jog any memories? I've asked my Mom about it, but she doesn't really remember the name or location. Unfortunately, my Dad is deceased, so I can't ask him. BoxOfficeBill... perhaps if you flip through one of your mid-70's era RCMH programs, you might find an ad for this restaurant? I want to say the name had something to do with Ford or had "Ford" in the name, but I really can't be certain.

This site could use a forum for questions such as this. Maybe even a "mystery theater" page where folks can post recollections about theaters they've been unable to identify and employ the collective memories (and detection skills) of Cinema Treasures members as a useful resource. I'll have to email Ross or Patrick with the suggestion one of these days.

The Autopub. It was located in the basement of the GM building at 59th and 5th. Now owned by Trump. Very cool place for a kid.

Bless you, BobT!!! I've been trying to figure that out for ages, now. I'll have to dig around online for more historical info and hopefully some photos, but that's a personal project apart from the doings at this site. Thanks for the push in the right direction!

Was there a Thanksgiving film in '57 or did Pajama game as an end of summer film run long enough so that Les Girls played until December and there was in effect only one fall film?
I wonder if the Hall got complaints from parents concerning Sayanora as a Christmas film I mean not only the sex and suicide but miscnegation as well. But then I believe that Peyton Place was the Roxy Christmas attraction.

"Don't Go Near the Water" was the Thanksgiving attraction that year(see my post of 13 Oct above). Yes, "Peyton Place" was the Roxy's Christmas rival that year, and its lurid reputation possibly pushed the family crowd into the gloom of "Sayonara" at RCMH-- better suicide than (gasp) teen-age sex. But the show at the Roxy was wonderful-- I remember its stage presentation as one of its best, though I no longer have the program.

By the way people were extolling The Producers as a possible holiday film(my personal learned opinion would be yuck)but the new Zorro seems like it would have been a nice choice. The right star power, costumes, set design and rating. Sight unseen it might have complemented very nicely a Leonidoff or Markert Christmas show.
Well allow me my dreams.

Denpiano - I should have included Ray Bohr in my comment as I was able in my sophomore and Junior years to arrange my classes so that my Friday afternoons would be free, thus enabling me to arrive before the afternoon stage show around 3, hear Ray play that one, stay for the movie and then do the show all over again at 6 with Leibert presiding.

Ray always appeared to be very tense when he played, but his arrangements were excellent and you could tell he really loved that organ. I only wish I had shown up for more house openings, when he would, as I was told much too much later, play for up to half an hour before the first movie. I met him at the stage door a couple of times (I was a teen-age theatre organist groupie) and even exchanged a couple of letters with him later on, and he was always very polite and patient with my youthful exuberance and curiosity.

I also learned to arrange my dates for after 10 and to bring a book so that if Leibert was especially "on" I could sit out the next movie in the grand lounge (in those days it really was both those things) and catch him again at 9. And all for something like 99 cents, as I recall! My interest in Leibert's astonishing playing, in the Music Hall and in the organ bordered on the pathological in those days, and has not waned much since, despite almost 40 years and the distance to Toronto. Leibert, Bohr and Jack Ward, along with Ashley Miller, Lee Erwin and a few others were as you say the last of their kind. And each had his unmistakable style of playing - you just don't find that much anymore.

I broke into a broad smile over your comments about the virtual orchestras, coming as they do from the person who takes care of the largest Wurlitzer ever built. The Wurlitzer Hope-Jones Unit Orchestra was marketed the better part of a century ago to be precisely the same thing - a one-person substitute for pit orchestras in theatres where the proprietors couldn't or didn't want to pay for all those musicians but wanted the same richness of sound to accompany the films and stage presentations. Eventually just the organists were left, especially in England.

I must admit that I am full of envy that you get to take care of that wonderful behemoth (you must be one of the Bishops, no?), and since you do, I have a question. I have noticed in recent photos of the prompt console that there is an extra stoprail at the bottom on either side - stops that were not there originally. Would you be able to enlighten me as to what they are for? I understand that in the conversion to a solid state relay the original stoplist and stoprail layout was not altered - are these additional Tibia unifications and things for those present-day organists who might not be able to play without them? (LOL)

BoxOfficeBill - Thanks for your kind remarks. I figure it's time I stop lurking and start to contribute what I can. Thanks also to you and Warren and REndres and the other "regulars" for your amazing posts over the life of this page, and other pages on this remarkable site. It blows me away that there is all this accumulated knowledge and experience in one place! I am especially liking the posts of the old programs and ads. I have collected a number of programs from the thirties (the 12- and 16-pagers) and some day when time and commitments allow it is my intention to haul them out of storage and scan and post them here.

And while I'm thanking people, special thanks must go to Patrick Crowley and Ross Melnick for starting this site and making it available to us all - free of charge!! It's so easy to start taking this site for granted after a while, but it truly is something to be grateful for.

Bravo to you all!

Geoffrey- I am not one of the BISHOPS, I do however work for the family. The Prompt console in fact has two extra stop rails, on the right are Tibias ( White Tabs) at all pitch levels for Ease? of finding them. Dick, Ray & co. never had trouble finding them and neither do I. Left side bottom are Black tabs for MIDI control. Now you can play Midi on all manuals & Pedals. There are also extra toe pistons on the console for more control. A dear friend of mine who also worked on the organ and has recently passed away was a Dick Liebert & Ray Bohr fan and knew them both VERY WELL! He gave me some of Rays intros to learn & I enjoy duplicating the old sound at 3AM
when the theatre is quiet & I can experiment the quieter voices of the organ. The OLD LADY as the guys call her is in fine tune, too bad
it may not be used for the show do to the musicians strike.
PS, you're correct! The Theatre Organ Did put musicians out of work
except for the organist.

Outide of the Christmas show when is the organ played? Also Geoffrey what are the years you are talking about with a 99 cents admission.
The early 60's?

.
In answer to the above post I remember seeing a RCMH Ad in the late 50's - early 60's showing a price of 90 cents before 10:30 AM. And here are a few insignificant memories of my own about RCMH.
As a six year old in 1947 my family drove up from Florida for a NEW YORK CITY VACATION.
It was the beginning of my love for NYC with the Empire State Building and the RCA building where
a tour of the radio studios ended with a display of, oh my GOD, TELEVISION. But it was e RADIO
CITY MUSIC HALL that impressed me the most. A STAGE SHOW and a MOVIE. I thought I had gone to heaven and I remember especially all the curtain maneuvers (not just the GRAND DRAPE) but all the runners. Its been 58 years ago but the split timing of the show is still with me. The Rocketts would all be dancing and singing or whatever for the big finale and the curtain would close and then
immediately open and there was the Movie., How did they do that so quickly was my thought.

I also remember that well into the 50's (when I was in high school and in New York again) I attended a RCMH show and remember the newreel contained just ONE news event (about 45 seconds with the intro and close). The Coming Attraction trailer as mentioned above was very impressive because it was custom made (like a formal invitation) and accompanied by the organ playing subdued music. I remember the Grand Curtain dropping down and wondering whether the preview would run out before the curtain completed its drop since it takes some time for the curtain to complete its
closing.
I was lucky to see (probably around 1960) or so the Underwater Mermaid Sequence which was fantastic.
Around 1970 I was with a friend who was well versed in the ARTS and MUSIC and who had never been to RCMH. We attended the 3:43 or something like that and the movie was almost over. The curtain closed and immediately this giant Symphonic orchestra rose up playing all the while. I remember him laughing at the audacity of the presentation (I mean the orchestra was actually playing as it rose and this was not just some small band but a damn symphonic orchestra. He just couldn't believe it. But he was impressed and enjoyed the entertainment value of the show if not the
sophistication he was used too.
The last film I saw and it must have been in the middle or late 70's was MAME with Lucille Ball. I sat in the upper balcony. stan

Don't Let Cablevision $teal Christmas!
SUPPORT RADIO CITY MUSICIANS!


Call CEO Jim Dolan at
(516) 803-1002.
Tell him you demand the real Radio City orchestra, not canned music

Vincent-
The organ is used in May for all the graduations and also
for any renters of the hall that request it, though rare, they
sometimes ask for "walk ins" 20 minutes or more prior to whatever
extravaganza they are throwing. Update: tomorrow (SUN)we are supposed
to have an orchestra run thru for the christmas show, I hope they settled their differences!!

Stan... "Mame" was released in 1974. It played with the Easter show on the Great Stage. I saw it here as well.

By the by... the rooftop observation deck at 30 Rockefeller Center (across 51st street from RCMH) is set to re-open on November 1st after being closed to the public for some 20-odd years. If anyone plans on making it in to NYC for the Holidays, a trip to Radio City should be paired with a trip up to the top of the former RCA building. It offers spectacular views from a comfortably open space. I remember visiting when I was a child and was floored by the views of the Empire State Building and Chrysler Building. Bieng not quite as tall as the more famous deck on the 86th floor of the Empire State, you don't get the feeling so much as being high above the city but more that you're skimming the top at eye level with all the other mid-town skyscrapers. You might recall that a portion of the "New York, New York" number in "On the Town" were filmed here (most people outside of NY might assume the shot is of Kelly, Sinatra and Munchin singing atop the Empire State, but they'd be wrong). I'm anxious to have a re-visit myself after all these years.

Denpiano - Many thanks for the infomation about the new stop tabs. I suspected they were for something like that. I got hooked on the Music Hall organs when I was growing up in Ottawa, Canada, through old Dick Leibert 78s and later his LP series and Ray Bohr's elegant recording for Reader's Digest. One of the first things I did when I got to New York was write to Leibert for more information on the organ. He forwarded my letter to the publicity office and I received the whole press package - photo, press release, stoplist and chamber analysis. Had that whole thing memorized in a week! I would be interested in exchanging more thoughts with you on the organ and organists. You can email me privately at jgfp@rogers.com, so we don't take up valuable space here. I wonder if I may have been acquainted with your friend who recently passed away.

Vincent - The years appear to have taken a toll on my ability to recall details - I could have sworn that when I started going to the Music Hall regularly in the fall of 1967 that I only paid 99 cents in the afternoon, but I have checked a few New York Times ads I have in my collection and apparently I was paying more! Prices for the 1968 Easter show (Disney's "The One and Only Genuine Original Family Band" with "Glory of Easter" and a Markert production "Spring Bouquet" on the Great Stage) were $1.25 to noon, $1.50 afternoons, evenings $2.00 ($2.25 on Fridays), Sat., Sun. and holidays slightly higher. By the following Easter (Disney again, this time "The Love Bug" along with "Glory of Easter" and "The Spring Thing") the afternoon and evening prices had risen a quarter. Even at $1.75 it was a bargain, especially when you could stay all day if you wanted!

Always fun to read about one of the greatest art deco theatres ever built and "Reborn after a $70 million renovation in 1999, Radio City has been restored to all of its original opulence."

I am an older dad with young children (eleven and nine years) and definitely a Music Hall Groupie. Since their birth we have seen the Christmas Show three times at Radio City and one time in, of all places, Myrtle Beach, SC. One of boys when he saw the Wooden Soldiers number remarked that there were not very many soldiers this time and of course the Myrtle Beach Theatre could not accomodate the full line of Rocketts.
I have also seen the Christmas Show in Chicago and just last year at the FOX Theatre in St. Louis. I can tell you that they all pale in comparison to seeing the show at RCMH. For one thing the backdrops and scenics are all static and none have the Great Hydraulic Stage elevators.
But the one thing that I really missed was the live orchestra which none of theatres offered.
If they do away with the live orchestra at RCMH I predict that the Christmas Show will not last another three or four years and it certainly won't last at current ticket prices.
I have tickets for this year and will ask for a refund if there is indeed canned music.
It will ruin the show and the current owners should not treat this as a trivial matter.
They should not underestimate the intricate part the live orchestra plays at RCMH.
In fact, when I saw the show at The Fox in St. Louis a couple of people around me remarked that they were disappointed that a live orchestra was not present. They wanted their children to experience that element.
One of my great experiences at Radio City was seeing the 50th Anniversary showing of Gone With The Wind. I thought that I would be the only fanatic in the crowd but, as it turned out, there were
some 6000 New York fanatics. We all knew the film so well and reacted to every moment.
At Scarlet's oath the whole audience cheered. It was amazing.

Stan: Thank you so very much for your recent RCMH post! I plan to see the show in Charlotte on December 30th at the Ovens Auditorium and sure hope there is a live orchestra after reading your words about that element! On the 31st I'll post my personal thoughts. You mentioned the classic, Gone With The Wind. I've been reading about Clark Gable's life and found it most fascinating. I didn't know that he went on to marry twice after the death of wife, Carole Lombard. He not only had a son (John Clark Gable) born with his 4th wife, but he had an illegitimate daughter, Judy Lewis whose mother was the late Loretta Young though they never really acknowledged her existence. Go to google and type in any celebrity name and a website will come up with additional information on that celebrity. Ms. Lewis wrote a book entitled, Uncommon Knowledge that I plan to purchase on a discount book website.

The celebrity website is www.imdb.com Also, correction Mr. Gable was married 5 times!

And the discount book website is www.abebooks.com

Clark Gable starred at the Music Hall in Adventure(one of only two at the Hall?)This film for some reason began Greer Garson's(the Music Hall greatest star)descent in popularity while not affecting Gable at all according to Warren in his book on Gable.
I only saw one Garson film there "The Happiest Millionaire."
It would be interesting if somebody would compile a list of movies stars films which had their New York premieres at the Hall and the length of the engagements.
Fascinating that two of Hepburns greatest Holiday and Bringing up Baby only played a week each. They both seemed perfect choices.

Patsy, you might also try reading "Clark Gable: A Biography" by Warren G. Harris, which has just been reissued in paperback by the Three Rivers Press division of Random House for $14.95. The author and I are the same person (shameless plug!). My book was first published in hardcover in 2002, and I believe that it is the most up-to-date of the Gable biographies.

Warren: Thanks for the plug! It's always nice to chat with an author! I will consider purchasing "Clark Gable: A Biography" by Warren G. Harris!

Yes, sounds like a great book. I hope it's the definitive one. So many stars bios are just parts of their lives, either their work or private life. Nice to read a book that explores everything, warts and all.

Anybody else remember the Christmas show from '71 with a circus theme where there was a trapeze act over the orchestra pit? They had cut holes in the first arch so that they could hang the equipment which was the only time I remember the auditorium being modified in any way. What goes on today would be considered unthinkable.
The orchestra was on stage so that the sunken pit had a net in it.
Having the act in effect in the house itself made it seem all the more dangerous.

Hangin' out in the basement cafeteria:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/cafe.jpg

Warren: What a neat b/w photo! Thanks so much as all RCMH fans will enjoy seeing it!

They cancelled the Christmas Show tonight because the Musician's Local 802 went on Strike. Looks like they will be using Recorded music for the performances till the musicians return.

The Rockettes and stagehands walked out last night in solidarity,
today will tell if there indeed will be a show this year.

>>Fascinating that two of Hepburns greatest Holiday and Bringing up Baby only played a week each. They both seemed perfect choices.

These pictures came out during Hepburn's "box office poison" period; big flops in their day but now considered classics.

Oh Denpiano that's great! I was hoping for solidarity.
It sounds as if there will be a contract for the musicians by the start of todays show. Please keep us posted, I am going to try and swing by there today.

*UPDATE*
I just spoke with a reliable source who told me last night preview show was cancelled, however in spite of the fact that they do not have a contract, have decided to play today in the spirt of the tradition of the Christmas show and for the many people who have tickets to todays performances. Although the first show is 11AM it is unclear wheather or not Radio City will allow them to play or go on with their plan to use canned music. However, in light of the solidarity issue I can't imagine that will happen.
Congrats to Local 802 for their dedication to the people of New York in the decision to continue to work this problem out and not strike
today. Radio City, the ball in in your court.

From what I read today the virtual orchestra is a recording of a 55 piece orchestra. Is this possible that other musicians would do this to their own union collegues?

In 1938, Hepburn's "Holiday" (with Cary Grant) also lasted only one week at RCMH, as did the Astaire-Rogers musical, "Carefree."

Here’s a Program from August 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-silk1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-silk2.jpg

"Carefree" might have lasted only a week, but “Silk Stockings” ran for six weeks in '57. It was yet another in a quartet of big musicals that played at RCMH that year, ushering the two named to follow on the announcement page. I’m not sure anyone knew that it would be Astaire’s last musical. The stage show’s salute to the USAF brought a Wright Bros.’ model B to the footlights, along with an original Sousa-like composition by RCMH’s music arranger Rayburn Wright (no relation to the Bros.?); athletic high leaps by Conrad Ludlow, a Balanchine protégé and principal dancer from the NY City Ballet; a full range of sound effects mouthed by Wes Harrison, who regularly deployed his lip-talent for Disney and Tom ‘n’ Jerry cartoons; accompanying mimes by circus-clown George Carl; and—staggering if true, a show to wake the dead—an appearance (on film?) by Robert Goddard, a contemporary of Lindbergh and a pioneer rocket scientist who died in 1945. But what I remember most was a series of blasts that rocked the huge auditorium every fifteen minutes or so. On the NW corner of 50th and Sixth, excavations were underway for the foundation of the Time-Life Building which would rise within the year. Ker-Bam. Ker-Boom. Ker-Shudder.

Cold shivers run through Radio City Christmas show

By Elizabeth LeSure

NEW YORK Radio City Music Hall's famed "Christmas Spectacular" may have a different ring this year. Management promised ticketholders Thursday that the show will go on but the leggy Rockettes might have to dance to canned music as the result of a musicians strike.

A preseason performance Wednesday was canceled and ticketholders left disappointed as several dozen musicians staged a picket line outside the Manhattan landmark. Stagehands walked out in support.

"We are going to hope that cool heads prevail and that everybody involved will find a way to get the show back," said David Lennon, president of Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians.

At issue are salaries and overtime pay. The orchestra's contract expired in May. Lennon blamed Radio City Entertainment, which produces the Christmas show, for the subsequent breakdown in talks.

In a statement, Radio City Entertainment said the union walked away from the negotiating table and was holding hostage "the 'Christmas Spectacular,' its 300-member cast and crew as well as hundreds of thousands of patrons." No meetings between management and labor are scheduled.

The union accuses Cablevision Systems, which operates Radio City, of vastly underpaying musicians who put on several shows a day throughout the holiday season. Radio City responds that it offered the musicians increases in salary and benefits "over what is already the most lucrative contract in the industry."

The labor strife has cast a cloud of uncertainty over the "Christmas Spectacular" ? a show that has entertained children and adults for seven decades. People pay up to $250 a ticket to watch the Rockettes high-kick to Christmas tunes.

"We have the whole night to do absolutely nothing," said Alaura Imperioli, 16, of the Bronx, who had planned to see the canceled Wednesday night.

Lennon said the union-represented Rockettes were supporting the musicians in their walkout but Radio City officials said that was not the case and suggested there is a no-strike provision in the Rockettes' contract.

The Rockettes reached a contract agreement with Radio City Entertainment last month. A message left for the union representing the Rockettes, the American Guild of Variety Artists, was not immediately returned.

More than a dozen Broadway musicals went dark in March 2003 for four days after the musicians' union walked out, and theaters lost millions in revenue. But when the union struck the New York City Ballet in 2000, performances of "The Nutcracker" went on as scheduled with taped music.

Last week, hundreds of musicians and supporters held a boisterous, music-filled protest on Sixth Avenue in front of Radio City Music Hall.

Union negotiator Mark Johansen said previously that Radio City Entertainment was trying to cut the musicians' base pay of $133 per show, which he said was about $40 less than what standard Broadway musicians are paid. At the height of the Christmas season, the orchestra works as many as six 90-minute shows every day ? at overtime pay beyond the first two. The musicians must play at least 12 shows a week.

On average, Johansen said, a musician doing 150 of about 200 shows in the run would make about $25,000; orchestra members also receive very basic year-round health benefits.

The Christmas show seems to have more corporate sponsors than a worlds fair with a potential gross from ticket sales alone of 21 million a week(not including premium priced ducats. In saner times these were simply the reserved seats on the first mezz.)
Each employee should get a SAAB for their Christmas bonus.

Vincent: "Each employee should get a SAAB for their Christmas bonus." I agree and I even personally know a Saab dealer though he is in Erie PA and not NYC!

BoxOfficeBill: Thanks for posting the 1957 RCMH programs. Really neat to see!

"Call CEO Jim Dolan at
(516) 803-1002.
Tell him you demand the real Radio City orchestra, not canned music."

Vito: I think this name and phone number bears repeating!

There was mention of a Kay Kendall in a previous post that I can't find at the moment. I see that she was in the film Les Girls with Gene Kelly and Mitzi Gaynor. What happened to Ms. Kendall as I my recall that she died about the time this film was being shown at RCMH?

Silk Stockings is certainly one of the films I would have liked most to see at the Hall. To this very day the dancing of Charisse and Astaire seems about as wonderful as anything captured on film.
Lucky BOBill.
Kendell had two more films to play at the Hall. Reluctant Debutante and Once More With Feeling.
Am I the only one still alive to have seen(at the Regency a couple of lifetimes ago) the wonderful British comedy Genevieve which seems today totally forgotten?

Regarding calling Jim Dolan (516) 803-1002 about the lack of a live orchestra for the Xmas Show - I did call and was very polite but firm. I am afraid that there will not be enough protest and another great tradition will
disappear. Its too damn bad that the NY press can't get on their case.

It has been all over the news here today about the canned music. What a sad sad day.

Well the shows did go on. However when musicians president, David Lennon and the rest of the orchestra arrived in good fath to begin work for the 11AM show, they were greeted by security guards and told they were locked out. The guards looked like night club bouncers which made the whole experience more difficult. Mikyl Cordova, spokesman for for the hall, came out and explained the position that untill a signed contract was in place, the musicians were considered on strike and would not be allowed to work. The musicians remained outside the stage door, a couple of them playing Christnas music. The 3PM show was a repeat of the earlier show with musicians not permitted to enter the hall. As the parons exited what looked like a sold out 11AM performance, some said the show was "fantastic" and that they did not mind the pre recorded music while others said they felt cheated and it just was not the same.
Most agreed however, that the show would have been better with the live orchestra. I wish the other unions could have gone out as well, but they all have a no strike clause in their contracts and had to work. My hope is that this will all be settled for tommorrow's 2PM show, there is no performance tonight. Mayor Bloomberg has asked both sides to get together and come to terms. I hope music hall management will allow all those talented, hard working musicians back to work, they are willing and ready to play even without a contract. Radio City should be ashamed of themselves for locking out the musicians and charging top broadway ticket prices for canned music. Cablevision, shame on you!

Thanks Patsy, for the informative post.

To BOB
Speaking of Conrad Ludlow another Balanchine dancer Melissa Hayden was featured in the previous stage show with Prince and the Showgirl. Did you see it?

As mentioned by Vito, the show did go on today and unfortunately
most culturally challenged show goers did not care about the live
music. What do you expect?? this is ths I-Pod generation. Download
free music, blow your ears out with constant headphone use! I'll
bet 99.9% never played a real instrument or care about how difficult
it is to perform. It is a sad day for me. I work hard to keep the
organ in tip top shape and now can't realize the fruits of my labor.
The organists are out as well and the kids won't see a one of a kind
instrument. The band car rising and crossing the stage as they
introduce the Nativity. What else can I say?

"...unfortunately most culturally challenged show goers did not care about the live music. What do you expect?? this is ths I-Pod generation. Download
free music, blow your ears out with constant headphone use!" Denpiano: This is the perfect scenario for most of today's youth!

Vincent-- yes-- I'll be posting the program next week.

Denapiano and Patsy, what is even more disturbibg is, did you notice that over half the audience members were senior citizens? I can almost forgive the kids, they don't know any better, but the seniors?, that is disturbing I thought surely they would be on our side. I worry also that management will say, hey look at that we got away with it. That is why we must continue to pressure them, surly the folks wanting live music must out number the ones who do care. I also honestly believe this whole thing will be settled very soon. As of last night no new talks were scheduled, perhaps today that will change. Hang in there Denapiano.

If RCMH is going to retain "canned" music, it should immediately cut the prices of all tickets since their labor costs will be much lower. And those who've already purchased tickets should be able to get a rebate by mailing in their stubs, or to obtain a full refund if they don't want to sit through a show with "canned" music.

Again I say what is the difference? Live music today sounds as canned as a recording. It is why performers can get away with lipsyncing on a stage unless there is a glich.
And considering today that the Music Hall only exists today to make the top Cablevision executives very wealthy it works out nicely.

Vincent, Of course I respect you right to your opinion but your remark is so ridiculous it is not even worth a responce.

Vincent, perhaps I was a bit harsh, I hope you were kidding or I mis understood your comment. Surely you don't believe in or support what RCMH management is doing.

Vito a certain amount of irony was intended in my post however I am very serious when I claim that live music sounds canned. I've found that the sound you hear today in a broadway theater or the Music Hall is so processed by the engineers that you might as well be at home listening to recording on a great sound system.
Also we know that the way Cablevision treats this great treasure is an absolute scandal from which it is only seeking the maximum amount of profits from whatever dreck it throws on the stage.
The execs there have only one goal and they are profiting from the house that Roxy, Leonidoff and Markert built with all the sensitivity of great white sharks.

The Rockettes union has a "no sympathy strikes" clause in their contract according to the papers which was smart of their union leaders because it gives them a get out of jail free card.
Was this payback for the unsympathetic way the musician's union treated the dancer's concerns in the past.
Union leaders do not forget(even if events happened before they were born.)

Last nights "opener" proved what todays audience is like. I stood at the rear of the theatre while the executive producer was on stage welcoming them to the 2005 Christmas spactacular. As he was speaking of a beloved member of the theatre who passed away this year the volume level( talking & whinning) came up 70 decibels. Attention span 53 seconds!!... The poor sound guys have to raise levels where they are, you have to be able to hear over the chatter. SO, I guess Vincent is CORRECT! Canned, or Manned, its all the same. Oh, by the way, the organ was canned also. Might as well put plastic on the consoles and role 'em in..

whats next? Holograms of the Rockettes?

SIGH.

What is going on? where is the outrage?, were are the picket lines?,
have the musicians decided to roll over and play dead?
This would not have been the case in my day, please tell me the entire run will be without the musicians. If RCMH management gets away with this, it be the beginning of the end for live music on Broadway. If the big bad Music Hall can do the biggest live show of the year with canned music, and get away with it, because no one seems to care or as it has been written on this website, "it's all the same", what hope will there be for the future of live music in any Broadway show. Last week, I went to see a demonstration of the new 3-D Dolby Digital projection, I must say I was very impressed but said at the same time, because I walked out of the theatre thinking, my God I have just witnessed what could be the nail in the coffin for film presentation at the movies. The next generations may never see film, I guess that's progress but I can't help feeling very bad about it. I just hope the next generation is not deprived of seeing a Broadway musical without a live orchestra.

Sorry, obviously I meant the last line to read WITH a live orchestra.

Yes Vito with todays technology it is all the same. Why people leave their homes I'll never know. Especially when they behave in an audience as if they were at home watching TV.
By the way the Daily New(always a stauch suporter of the Music Hall)
complained about the same old tired acts and the anti-climactic Nativity. I'm glad somebody in the press finally noticed.

Vincent, much of what you say is sad but true. One of the biggest discussions at ShowEast was patrons unruly behavier, MPAA president Dan Glickman adressed the many ways theare owners must work to combat this problem, along with piracy, another big problem for the industry. I read the Daily news article, however it won't hurt ticket sales, what I don't understand is why the strike continues.

Actors' Equity Association had asked its members to support musicians striking the Radio City Music Hall's Christmas Spectacular by joining a muscians picket line Friday. Equity members showed up in solidarity for the 2 pm appointment, but the American Federation of Musicians, Local 802 had decided not to picket. Later, the musicians chose to don tuxedos and spend the evening across the street from Radio City, playing for the public. Equity was hoping to get members to support that effort.

Equity and Local 802 joined forces in 2003 when the musicians' strike shut down Broadway. Although Equity had a "no-strike" clause in its contract with producers-meaning a union will not strike to support another union's walkout-Equity used the stagehands' striking in support of Local 802 as its rationale for not performing. Actors would not work in conditions made unsafe by the absence of stagehands, Equity contended. Actors then joined the picket lines. The strike lasted four days before musicians and producers came to terms on a new pact. The Rockettes need to put those beautifull legs to better use on a picket line in solidarity with the rest of the behind the scenes workforce at RCMH. End this madness now!

It'll be a tougher sell on Broadway, I think. While the theater does depend a lot on tourism, I believe there is a very serious group of devoted theater enthusiasts from the Metro area (I include myself among them) who will demand that their music be performed live. These sentiments will have the the support of the critics, particularly the influential staff at the New York Times. At least, I like to believe that would be the case. However, I do realize that contractual concessions over the years have reduced the minimum number of "required" musicians in theatrical presentations and that many recent revivals of older musicals have significantly cut-back on the size of the orchestra and ensemble players when compared to the original productions. Most notable are two streamlined prodcutions of Stephen Sondheim works: the 2001 revival of "Follies" and the current revival of "Sweeney Todd." "Follies" was a B.O. failure that wound up closing many weeks short of its originally intended limited run at the Roundabout and some hey has already been made over the fact that the actors ARE the musicians in this current version of "Todd."

I still think that the patrons who attend shows on Broadway are a touch more sophisticated (and therefore more demanding) than the tourists and young families that tend to fill the vastness of Radio City Music Hall for 225 performances each Holiday season.

EdSolero, As I ponder what you have written I must say I hope you are right. In addition to the demands for live music from the theatre going public, the producers themselves would propably not be so inclined as to allow canned music. This is why it is so important not to allow what is going on at RCMH to continue, so that the new blood of producers present and future will never be tempted to change the way we see, and more importantly hear, live theatre. Once we begin to slide back and allow what is going on at RCMH to continue, it will spread, and sophisticated and demanding as Broadway audiences are, I worry they will begin to shrug their shoulders and begin to accept and get used to it. Then, there will be no turning back.
Now I'm not trying to be a chicken little here but as impossible as it may seem today, I am not so sure that in the future, if push comes to shove, as unspeakable as it may seem today, the absence of a live orchestra will not stop people from attending musical plays.

I wonder how many folks today would be willing to pay the same $100 for a top priced seat in a typical Broadway musical if they knew going in that there would be no orchestra, only pre-recorded musical accompaniment. With the reduced overhead of not having to provide salary and benefits for, say, a 12 piece orchestra, do you think people would demand a reduction in ticket prices as a trade-off should this become an inevitability? I don't know that I'd have any interest in attending a production with canned music, but I surely wouldn't want to pay the same exorbitant prices for such a diminished production.

But, I'm sure the producers would just take the opportunity to line their pockets a bit thicker than before. Just as they are doing with the Radio City Christmas Show. Unless I missed the part about Cablevision arranging for a fair partial refund for those who attended affected performances and a full refund for those ticket holders who elect not to see the show without the orchestra? This is one of the main reasons I see so few movies in theaters these days... It really gets me in a twist that in addition to paying ever-increasing ticket prices, I am forced to sit through several commercials (be it for Reebok, Coca Cola or Fandango.com) before the previews and feature presentation - something I might not mind as much if their inclusion in the program would subsidize reduced admission fees.

Today as the Music Hall crew was setting up the stage for a concert tonight by Ben Folds? , the stage manager asked if I would take her behind the scenes of the Wurlitzer. Well, OF COURSE ! was my reply.
I took her all over the building and to her credit, she crawled around in the chambers to experience what our crew has to do to keep the Old Lady in tip top shape. She was amazed at how it works and how powerful it is when in the chambers. To make a long story short,
it was this small education that gave her a new appreciation of the instrument, she had not realized how important the instrument like
the orchestra is! I hope she will speak up on our behalf, now that she understands its importance to be heard and seen!

Today as the Music Hall crew was setting up the stage for a concert tonight by Ben Folds? , the stage manager asked if I would take her behind the scenes of the Wurlitzer. Well, OF COURSE ! was my reply.
I took her all over the building and to her credit, she crawled around in the chambers to experience what our crew has to do to keep the Old Lady in tip top shape. She was amazed at how it works and how powerful it is when in the chambers. To make a long story short,
it was this small education that gave her a new appreciation of the instrument, she had not realized how important the instrument like
the orchestra is! I hope she will speak up on our behalf, now that she understands its importance to be heard and seen!

Today as the Music Hall crew was setting up the stage for a concert tonight by Ben Folds? , the stage manager asked if I would take her behind the scenes of the Wurlitzer. Well, OF COURSE ! was my reply.
I took her all over the building and to her credit, she crawled around in the chambers to experience what our crew has to do to keep the Old Lady in tip top shape. She was amazed at how it works and how powerful it is when in the chambers. To make a long story short,
it was this small education that gave her a new appreciation of the instrument, she had not realized how important the instrument like
the orchestra is! I hope she will speak up on our behalf, now that she understands its importance to be heard and seen!

sorry my post was repeated 3 times! I had trouble with the site?

Denpiano, thanks for that story, your love for that ole organ is obvious from your other posts. Here is hoping it will entertain and thrill millions of people in the years to come. Take good care of her

Some movies that could have, should have, but didn't play at the Music Hall for whatever reasons.
Excluding roadshows and films that would have clashed with another perfect Music Hall choice(such as Summertime which would have conflicted with Love Me or Leave Me and Mr Roberts)
The Wizard of Oz
Pinnochio
Buck Privates
The Magnificent Ambersons
Double Indemnity
The Bishops Wife
Easter Parade
Annie Get Your Gun
Sabrina
Lady and the Tramp
Artists and Models
Sunday in New York
Walk Don't Run
On a Clear Day
Murder on the Orient Express
Prisoner of Second Avenue
That's Entertainment Parts 1 and 2

I agree with most of these titles....but BUCK PRIVATES and ARTISTS AND MODELS? Don't think so. I'm a big fan of Abbott and Costello and Martin and Lewis, but their flicks at the RCMH would not be a good choice. Even have doubts on DOUBLE INDEMNITY.

I disagree with that last statement, Ron... Why would A&C or M&L be inappropriate fare for the Hall? Both produced the sort of clean and family-freindly entertainments that were a hallmark of Radio City programming in it's prime. And "Double Indemnity" is one of the all time great film classics, never mind it's esteemed place within the film-noir genre. How could these possibly have been bad choices for the Hall during their original release? What would be your criteria for a good choice?

Well, didn't mean to be inappropriate, but the Hall ususally played prestiages A movies...DOUBLE might be considered one, but not the other two. They were more or less B films, wonderful as they were, especially BUCK PRIVATES. I know of many A flicks that have played the Hall that shouldn't have, however.

I knew someone would have a problem with those two teams. I including them because the Music Hall showed They Got Me Covered with Hope and Lamour in '43.
And these two films were probably the best of what were among the biggest stars of their eras.
I would think they would have both been sensational at Radio City.
And I always think that the Hall premiered the ultimate and first Beach Party movie Where the Boys Are.

I believe RC would have died for a Martin and Lewis picture but the Paramount was still going strong at the time and had them as a live act.
Abbot and Costello were maybe a little too crude (although I was crazy for them) for Radio City. But they did have the Andrew Sisters in a lot of their films and also Dick Powell and
Carmen Miranda which gave them so called class so it wasn't all 3 Stooges stuff. Abbot and Costello were also big box-office in the early and middle forties. How many early Universal pictures ever played RC anyway?

I believe RC would have died for a Martin and Lewis picture but the Paramount was still going strong at the time and had them as a live act.
Abbot and Costello were maybe a little too crude (although I was crazy for them) for Radio City. But they did have the Andrew Sisters in a lot of their films and also Dick Powell and
Carmen Miranda which gave them so called class so it wasn't all 3 Stooges stuff. Abbot and Costello were also big box-office in the early and middle forties. How many early Universal pictures ever played RC anyway?

Maybe at that time in the 40's Universal was low rent but going into the 60's Universal started having some big hit movies at the Hall.
One of the movies which I wish the Hall could have premiered was The Sting.
When I first saw the film I wasn't too crazy about it. But when I saw it re-released at the Hall it worked like magic. And the score never sounded better!

I understand that Abbott and Costello are considered "low comedy" but, as stated above, they were pretty high box office and many of their earlier films could have topped some bills. I think "The Time of Their Lives" would have been a wonderful Music Hall feature. As for Martin and Lewis, they were box office champs for a few years, weren't they?

Your point is taken, Ron... But then, look at the drivel the Hall booked in its later years. Certainly, films like "Paper Tiger" and "Mr. Billions" weren't considered "prestige"... nor, I'm sure, were any of the live-action Disney films to play here.

Also speaking of Universal Airport was the only genuine 70mm film to ever play at the Music Hall during its premiere engagement.

Mr Billions was booked as an Easter film.Talk about corporate incompetence.
It was so bad they pulled it after a week or two and threw in the Disney mining pony movie(I think I was one of 5 people in the audience.) Does anybody remember the name of this?
I don't think they even turned on the house lights during the breaks the place was so empty.

Would that be "The Littlest Horse Theives," Vincent? About the kids who steal the ponies when the owner decides to close the mine and sell them to make glue (or something like that)? Very dark for a Buena Vista release. Took place in England, didn't it? Gosh... I haven't thought about this movie in 30 years!

Yes I guess that was it. Probably it was '77.

The Hall primarily played MGM films, I believe, at least in their heyday. Until movies began losing their luster, the Hall played quality films. Abbott and Costello just didn't cut it, although they would have been better than those bombs that played there in the late 50's-60's. Even Abbott and Costello and Martin and Lewis would have been better bookings, that is if A&B were still making movies. I do believe that both teams had better represntation playing in their proper venues.

Well I'd sure give a lot to see Buck Privates at the Music Hall today with the Rockettes and the organ(no recording thank you.)

Sorry, but "The Littest Horse thieves" did not play the hall. The only Disney/BV film that tear was "Pete's Dragon"

By R.C. do you all mean Radio City or was that Rothaphel's (Roxy's) first two initials?

By R.C. do you all mean Radio City or was that Rothaphel's (Roxy's) first two initials?

Well astrocks I saw a Disney movie with children and mining ponies there that replaced Mr Billions so what was the name of it?

Here’s a Program from June, 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-prince1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-prince2.jpg

Seeing “The Prince and the Showgirl” at the 10:30 am showing on opening day remains one of my favorite memories of RCMH. Maybe it’s because the school year had just ended the day before and I looked forward to an endless summer of reading and seeing movies, the last before I’d be tied down by seasonal jobs. Maybe it’s because at the age of fifteen I felt myself sprouting wings and entering a new kind of grown-up world. Only two years earlier I had lied to my parents about seeing the tsk-tsked “The Seven-Year Itch” at the RKO Dyker, though I really didn’t fathom the fuss over Monroe. Now in the summer of ’57, I understood.

I shall never forget the enormous roar from 6,000 patrons at RCMH during the first encounter between Olivier and Monroe when the strap on her dress breaks loose and his monacle pops into her cleavage. My friend and I stayed to see the film twice. I realize that both stars made much better movies, and that later reports about tensions on the set proved disheartening. But this film pleased me immensely. And the stage show celebrating NYC was an eye-popper.

As Vincent pointed out last week, Melissa Hayden—a principal dancer from the City Ballet—joined the Corps de Ballet, already augmented by tutu-fitted Rockettes, to flood the stage with a Chopin extravaganza. Ronnie Ronalde, still performing today at the age of eighty-two, was an English music-hall star who’d been billed as the world’s greatest whistler and whose whistling-cum-accordion-playing was said to have made Marilyn Monroe shiver with excitement—a kinky stage accompaniment for the film. The Morlidor Trio featured a male contortionist who wore a black mask and was assisted by two female attendants. Also kinky. A grotesquely garbed figure of Father Knickerbocker linked the various acts and swelled to unimaginable proportions at the Finale. Kinkiest.

BOB what an excellent description of the stage show. So much more informative than the reviews one reads in the old Varietys.
The Balanchine connection to the Hall seems to have been explicit at this time. Was he a friend of Leonidoff's?
His extraganzas of the 70's like Union Jack and Vienna Waltzes(maybe one can go back to Figure in the Carpet?)seemed to owe a lot to Music Hall style presentation, at least as I imagine them being during the golden years.
Suzanne Farrell arguably the greatest dancer of the 20th Century once said that she would have danced anywhere if she had to even Radio City(ouch!) But she didn't have to.

"The Littlest Horse Theives" did indeed play the Hall as a replacement for "Mr. Millions". I remember that engagement for several reasons. We had installed Dolby single channel decoders and E.Q. for up to six tracks of 70mm mag sound (note--I didn't say we BOUGHT six channels of Dolby equipment, we more or less "borrowed" them from Dolby since we were doing testing for them), but we couldn't play the new Dolby stereo/optical tracks. Fox was planning to release "Star Wars" in stereo/optical, and did "Mr. Millions" in that format. Because of the status of the Hall, we were able to "borrow" a CP-100 processor from them which we kept until we re-did the whole system for the premiere of "The Lion King". Thus we spent a lot of time getting ready for "Mr. Millions", only to have the picture pulled after a couple of weeks. It was our Easter Show that year, and my parents and their friends came to New York from Illinois for a visit. My parents friends had never seen the Hall, and the first thing they saw there was the short-lived "Millions"! I don't know all of the details, but pulling "Millions" soured relations with Fox because the picture didn't do enough business to even make the portion of the advertising costs the Hall was supposed to pay, and there was discussion as to who was resposible. The replacement picture was "Theives", but it doesn't show up on a lot of the lists of the Hall's pictures because the booking was for "Millions".

From the audience I saw I can't imagine Thieves did any better than Mr.Billions(or is it Millions?) Who in the world was booking movies at this time? Movies that you wouldn't go to see on the bottom of a double bill on 42nd street for $1.50. Even another revival of Singing in the Rain would have been better and probably a lot cheaper.

I agree with that last comment. Yes, even ANY of the A&C or Martin and Lewis pics would have been signifigent better than those two dismal movies.

I think "Mr. Billion" is the correct title.

Denpiano ... thanks for sharing your information on the Mightiest of All Wurlitzers. If it weren't for you and your company, another American Classic would go silent. I believe I met you way back in January 2000 (bitterly cold that day) when a group of four came up to the Music Hall with my friend who was a former RCMH organist and friend of Ray Bohr's for a reunion for him and the organ. We still talk about the trip. Say hello to RCB and RB for us.

Did Radio City (or any other theater) ever have twin Wurlitzers? For some reason, I seem to remember that there were two organs (one on either side of the proscenium) that emerged simultaneously from their bays while their operators labored furiously to produce the thunderous music that filled the great space. Memory can play tricks (and my memory in particular ought to be clad in top hat, cape and magician's wand), but the image seems vivid enough to me. Am I mistaken?

During the Glory of Easter pageant the two organs would be played though during the 70's the organ on the right side would have a dummy. In fact I have no idea when it happed but many of the figures in this Easter pageant were replaced by dummies. I never had any idea of this until the review of I believe the '74 Easter show by Variety which lamented that the pageant had become a shadow of itself.
The two organs were used for the only time I can remember in the '70 one time. The orchestra was on stage with the two organs playing the Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor. You all know this from Fantasia.
The stage show was From Bach to Bacharach for The Bluebird.

Oops! Of course its "Mr. Billions" (Perhaps "Billious" would have been better!) When Bob Jani took over in '79 after the format change both consoles were played at each performance. The two organists were reputedly the youngest in the country to play a dual console gig and were featured in the Ripley's "Believe It Or Not" strip in the Sunday comics. One of the two was Lance Luce, a name I remember because everyone in his family had a first and last name that began with an "L". One night I was showing a projection lens company representative around the theatre after the last show, and Lance was practicing at the console as we walked up. When we admired what he was playing, he launched into a "Star Wars" medley that included the bar room sequence and utilized the "toy counter" of organ effects in a way that I hadn't heard before. I always wished the organists (Jimmy Paulin in particular) were given more latitude to chose their selections since some of the music I heard while they were rehearsing made a far more interesting use of the instrument than what was heard during the shows. I remember Ray Bohr playing out of the feature into the intermission, and when I came to the Hall I had shown "Super Dad" in Illinois as a New Year's Eve special with some other Disney feature. It ended with a wedding and a really nice theme. It was the first feature we played when I started at the Hall, and I asked if Ray could pick up the theme going into the intermission. He did - beautifully blending the Hall organ with the organ in the church on the soundtrack of the film, and then continuing the theme as the contour came in and the house lights came up. That was a transition I'll never forget!

Great comment on the booking of PRINCE AND THE SHOWGIRL and stage show. Oh, for those good ole' days again. How lucky some people were to have experienced all them golden years at the Hall.. Pity the poor kids of today who only no multiplexes with their video games, coffee cafes' and neon glitz...

REndres I saw Super Dad at the Hall to what I remember was a fairly full house and I remember as well the wedding at the end being very effective. Now I know why.
Being that you were working at the Hall in the mid 70's and being that the bookings and the stage shows at this time were so inexplicably disastrous do you think this was done on purpose to drive the Hall into the ground and sell it for office space or was the place being run by simply terribly incompetent people put there by nepotism and connections?

Vincent-

Thanks for jogging my memory on the 70's Easter Show. As a 4 year old sitting way up in one of the higher mezzanines, I thought it quite hokey that one of the "organists" was actually a dummy. Actually, up until reading your post, I thought the dummy organist was just a false memory of mine. What were they thinking?

The only other thing I remember about the 1973 Easter show were the large (6 foot?) Easter Eggs on the choral staircases. They weren't quite 3 dimentional and the footlights shone on the bottoms making patterns on the eggs.

Can anyone tell me what the 1970's Easter show consisted of?

Vincent-your question is a little like the classic, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"! The Hall's films at that time certainly left a lot to be desired. I had come to New York from Illinois and a small circuit which was owned by one of the best bookers I've ever worked with. Over the years I would have lunch with him during my vacations and he gave me a course in successful booking, so the contrast with the Hall was even more marked. Nonetheless, neither of your assumptions is exactly true. Remember the 70's were the start of tentpole pictures like "Jaws" which opened wide rather than on a single screen in a major market. The Hall was a single screen (a very LARGE single screen)theatre competing against the circuits. Even in Illinois in medium markets, theatre circuits would "split" product -- a practice which was to get several theatre circuits into legal trouble when the courts declared it illegal. The Hall didn't as a single screen have the clout to be involved in splits. In addition the Hall was locked into the movie/stage show policy as a national tourist attraction. That meant no "R" rated movies, a huge nut that involved special rates with the film companies, and exclusive right to play a film within a large radius. Theatres in city centers across country were suffering from the flight to the suburbs -- note how many of the movie palaces on this site have survived, as the Hall has, by becoming performing arts centers. I was friends with some of the Hall management involved in booking, and I know they suffered when they had to play some of the pictures they were forced to play. Our last picture in the movie/stage show years, "Caravans", was picked up by Universal only because it would gaurantee us a Christmas Show. That was because of a close relationship between Hi Martin of Universal and Charles Hacker our Chief Operating Officer. Universal was the only major at the time that would go out of its way for us. I too railed at the pictures we played (after all as Head Projectionist I had to look at them over and over). Rock Center did realize that the policy had to be changed. A friend of mine at the Hall who knew the President of Rock Center told me years later that the President told him over lunch that the supposed "closing" that was announced in '79 was really done to enable the Hall to drop the policy it was locked into. I don't think our management was the sharpest theatre team I've ever worked with, but I don't think they were incompetent either. They were locked into a unique situation where the rules that applied to the rest of the industry just didn't apply. A sea change was coming in film distribution that swamped the Hall and most of the urban centered showcase theatres across the country.

Organ-ized- I remember your group very well, we had a great time also and you are welcome back anytime. Ray Bohr was a great arranger at the great organ and I have tried to duplicate his sound with some success!! EdSolerno- The organ is a single instrument with 2 consoles completely independent of each other, an organist could use either Prompt, or Opposite Prompt consoles to play from. When we refinished and refitted the Prompt console, left side looking at stage, the right console was used. Incidentally Jimmy Paulin was quite the interesting entertainer at the console, I knew a girl who studied with him and could play his arrangements almost exactly.

REndres thanks for your response. When I worked there during Robin and Marian and Bluebird(neither of which I was able to sit through)it was clear that everyone saw the Hall as a lost cause(so why were they working there?) One of the staff called it a white elephant. I thought he was out of his mind. How do you call one of New York"s great architectural achievments a white elephant?
When you mentioned to someone that perhaps the films and stage show were not what they should be they would give you a deer in the headlights look and insist they had no idea what you were talking about. I also remember the vice president(Fred something?) at the time being very surprised and dismayed that Robin was not a success.
You had to pick me up off the floor. Had anyone seen this dreary dark revisionist film before it was booked as a holiday show?
And the Easter show was totally designed in black and white!
This is what I mean by incompetence.
Then there was that Christmas show(Sunshine Boys) where the only dance number besides the Rockettes was a Raggedy Ann doll on a small set doing a dopey dance. Pretty pathetic.

By the way I walked out of Caravans when when Michael Sarrazin started pissing against a wall. People were being paid to negotiate Christmas films like this? They could have simply righted a wrong done back in '44 and showed a beautiful Technicolor print of Meet Me In Saint Louis. There was no way that there would have been fewer people in the house especially if they had bothered to put a sensational Christmas show on that stage.

Re: Musician's Strike/Lockout

An article from today's New York post decrying the use of canned music.

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/57238.htm

"...But my ears missed the orchestra, the music that completes this awesomely efficient Hallmark Greetings card. Longtime fans of the show will walk away disappointed — and demanding a rebate."

FYI. For those of you who like to track what film played which NYC theater (and for how long), there is a new resource. The New Yorker magazine recently released a set of DVD-ROMs featuring all of the content from every issue of the magazine from 1925 through early 2005, including the weekly film theater listings. The set is surprisingly affordable (retails for $100 but is available at online stores for much less).

Thanks for the tip Erik, I do believe I would enjoy owning that DVD.
Truth be told however, we have our own tracking source right here on Cinema Treasures and his name is Warren.

Thanks for the tip Erik, I do believe I would enjoy owning that DVD.
Truth be told however, we have our own tracking source right here on Cinema Treasures and his name is Warren.

Vincent, The vice-president you refer to was Fred Kellers, and his wife Mary was in the p.r. department at the Hall. I too remember those films well. "Bluebird" is one of my leading candidates as the worst film to play at the Hall (with "A Matter of Time" being another). In that case, its possible that no one at the Hall had seen the picture until it was too late. I remember attending a pre-opening screening for an audience full of kids at the Little Carnegie theatre on 57th street with a gaggle of Music Hall executives who all came out looking stunned. I mentioned splitting product above, which was declared illegal, but at the same time so was "blind bidding" which meant buying a picture (and paying an amount up front) before even having a print available to see and it was a common practice at the time. "Bluebird" was made in Russia, and I don't think anyone here had a chance to see it, but relied on the reputations of the director George Cukor and the cast to assume that it was a good film. Lest I be too forgiving, films were picked when available for screenings by a Music Hall selection group that included the secretaries of Vice-presidents, and as I mentioned above the movie always was considered second to the stage show. There were limitations on the stage show as well, but those came from across the street in the Rock Center offices. Remember the Center originally wanted to lure the Metropolitan Opera to their new theatres. I always suspect the Rock Center management wanted art and ended up with kitsch, and never quite recovered. They were always suspicious of producers who wanted really lavish shows from Roxy to Leonidoff to Bob Jani (in all fairness, the producers also wanted more lavish productions than the box office could afford). Even though they were peripherally involved in entertainment with RKO pictures, RCA/NBC and the Hall, show business was just not the Rock Center management thing. They cut the ballet company out of the second stage show I did when I started there with almost no advance notice so that Peter Gennaro was left with just the Rockettes and an orchestra with which to piece a show together. The Rockette line was cut from 36 to 30 to save money as well, leaving John Jackson very little to work with. On the other hand, what other company would have tried to keep the format going as long as they did? Granted both the Roxy and the Center Theatre were under direct Rockefeller management when they closed, but perhaps the very stodginess that made the formula stale, also saved the theatre for other uses.

sorry i made a mistake with "the littlest horse thieves"

Mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg has arranged for a federal mediator to meet with Cablevision and the musicians union, in the comfort of the residence at Gracie Mansion, to hammer out an agreement. The meetings began this morning (Monday)

REndres
Do you know what the issues were concerning the That's Entertainment film's and why they didn't play the theater?
It seems odd that the films would be considered second to the stage show as the Hall always depended on popular films to draw the crowds. I believe in a previous post I mentioned a Variety critic in the early 30's reviewing a stage show commenting that the size of the Music Hall crowds depended on what film was playing there.
And as far as the stage show being the important thing nobody would cut the theater more slack than I but at that point even I found them pretty embarassing when they weren't downright tedious.
I remember with The Tamarind Seed(I believe the first without the Ballet.) The Rockettes did a terrific Lullaby of Broadway number but the rest of the stage show was just one singer after another just standing center and singing a song. It was endless. Nobody went to the Music Hall for that.
This was followed by The Girl from Petrovka. Now I like Goldie Hawn as much as anybody but this was beyond the pale. I heard people in the lobby complaining to the ushers about the ghastly stage show. In '76 when I worked there the ushers were still singing "Nyet Nyet Nyet.'
There was nothing to do at that point but sit out everything and wait for the organ.

Maybe this was why RCMH stopped showing films..All pretty lousy. The begining of the demise..

Denpiano! Great to hear from you! It would be great to come back for another visit next year. Speaking of Uncle Ray, I gave a concert on a 4 manual Allen George Wright digital theater organ and included several arrangements of Ray's. My former Music Hall organist friend thought he was back at the Hall hearing Ray play. Glad you are doing the same ... even if it is in the middle of the morning ... but it's at the place it should be. Nice clarification on the additional tabs on the Prompt console. I remembered the MIDI tabs now. Hopefully my wife and I will hear her on December 9th, if the musician's conflict is resolved. Tell the Bishops hello for me.

As I mentioned on Monday, union representatives for Radio City Music Hall musicians and management met at Gracie Mansion yesterday and spent much of the day trying to resolve their labor problems.
The negotiations were adjourned around 7:30 p.m. and are expected to resume tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon, said a union negotiator, John Babich.
The talks began yesterday morning at the suggestion of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who offered his official residence and a moderator to help complete an agreement. "It's in the city's interest," the mayor said at a Brooklyn event, "to have companies succeed and people working and to have the great events that bring tourists to this city continue."
Besides a location for the talks, the Bloomberg administration provided a mediator: Frank J. Macchiarola, the president of St. Francis College in Brooklyn and a former schools chancellor.
Mr. Macchiarola also mediated talks at Gracie Mansion in a strike by Broadway musicians in 2003.
The musicians, who are represented by Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians, have said they want to return to work while negotiations proceed. Radio City Entertainment has denied, however, that the performers were locked out.Mr. Babich, who is one of the members of the union's negotiating committee, said the musicians were willing to accept a contract "with modest increases."
The last and only time talks were held since the walkout began was last Thursday, Mr. Babich said.
The union has said Cablevision Systems Corporation, which operates Radio City, underpays musicians, who put on several shows a day throughout the holiday season. Radio City says it has offered the musicians increases in salary and benefits.
Another member of the union negotiating committee, Mark Johansen, a trombone player, has said Radio City Entertainment was trying to cut the musicians' base pay of $133 per show. The musicians must play at least 12 shows a week.
On average, Mr. Johansen has said, a musician doing 150 of the approximately 200 shows in the run would make about $25,000.
Orchestra members also receive very basic year-round health benefits.
So at least there is some hope of resolving this unfortunate situation.

Vincent - The Hall would very much like to have played "That's Entertainment" and indeed, we ran a trailer for it at one point (years later I used bits from that trailer in a film effect for one of Bob Jani's shows until MGM refused us the rights to use the material). I think they may have even booked other MGM films just to get a crack at "Entertainment" but it was MGM's decision. Perhaps they could squeeze an extra performance a day at the Ziegfeld without having to work around the stage show.
You're probably right about the film being the attraction in the '30's when other venues also had stage shows, but by the time we worked there I think the production staff took a rather snobbish attitude toward films.
The first show without the ballet company was pretty grim, but don't blame Peter Gennaro. The company was pulled giving him very little time to do anything. The issue was the mandatory hiring of a whole company. If the company was eliminated, the Hall could hire ballet company members as needed rather than as a whole. Thus the show with no ballet at all.
I can't help but compare the Music Hall's position in getting films to that of the Ziegfeld today. Comments on that site have decried the pictures that theatre is forced to play, and the situation is somewhat analogous to that of the Hall in the '70's. Even though the Ziegfeld is part of a circuit, the booking power is always in the hands of the larger circuits such as AMC, Loews and Regal. The Hall was part of the RKO circuit when it started showing films, and later its size and tourist status gave it clout as a prestiege venue, but ultimately it was the boxoffice that counted to the distributors as the urban centers faded. At one point Rock Center tried to get Disney to take over the Hall, but Disney couldn't understand how a place with so little parking could ever be profitable. In a sense they did give the operation to Disney when they hired Bob Jani, a Disney alumnus, to rejuvenate the place in '79.

I remember the renovation done at that time in 79 and it was beautiful as it was totally dedicated to restoring the Hall to its 30's glory as opposed to the recent updating. They also installed in the lobby the vase that the Rockettes won at the Paris Exposition. This was also a period where the Hall occasionally showed movies to the general public. It's too bad Jani did not continue and Disney didn't take over. I might still have a reason for going there.
Now it is simply a shopping mall(Rockefeller Center) adjunct.

By the way it seems the audiences are still going there for the Christmas show. Nobody cares that there's no orchestra!!
The mayor is getting involved now?!
It hardly seems worth the all the money and preparation neccessary to put the orchestra in at this point.

Vincent, During the 1999 renovation, I mentioned that the cove color was way too light and was told it had gotten really dark due to the incorrect use of color during the '79 renovation. I laughed as I was told that information, I am convinced it is the way it is to show up better on TV. When it was done, I looked closely at it and it almost looked Creme in color! Also, the cove lighting was changed, especially the deep blue color is nowhere the way it was. Progress??
Your guess is as good as mine! By the way, the same patrons that take the kids to see Barney are going to the Christmas show, hence the lack of caring about an orchestra!

The Musicians will be back starting tomorrow at the 2:30 show.
Sound check is tomorrow Morning ( Friday)

Well it's about time! Radio City Entertainment and the union representing musicians reached a tentative deal Thursday in a labor dispute, agreeing to use a live orchestra instead of canned music, both sides said. The parties had been working with a mediator.
As Denpiano (see I told you to hang in there) metioned, Radio City said Thursday that the orchestra would play for today's (Friday)afternoon show.
"Our people are out of work, and now they're going back to work, and that's what it's about," union negotiator John A. Babich said.
Indead John, but it's much more, because the theatre going public has missed the thrill of hearing the orchestra played live, and now people from around the world can enjoy the magic and splender of the Radio City orchestra. Now, myself and all the friends I have discouraged from attending, can go to see the Christmas show.

He declined to discuss the terms of the deal.

In a statement, James L. Dolan, president of Cablevision Systems Corp., which owns Radio City, thanked Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg for providing a forum and a mediator.

"We are very pleased to reach an agreement," the statement said.

Probably the most unusual movie to ever play at RCMH was RKO's "The Ramparts We Watch," which opened (with stage show) on September 19th, 1940, and survived for only one week. Produced and directed by Louis de Rochemont, the 90-minute "docudrama" was the first full-length feature from the makers of the "March of Time" series of short subjects. It combined historical footage with a fictional story about WWI to alert America to prepare for eventual involvement in the war already raging in Europe and Asia.

Well The battle between Local 802 and Radio City Music Hall is officially over. Musicians voted Sunday to approve the contract that the two sides agreed on last week. Whew!
Perhaps Denpiano has more information, although I have a feeling he has chained himself to the organ. To all the musicians, congrats, we look forward to many more years of live (as it should be) music at Radio City.

Hi Vito, You were not too far off describing my being "chained" to the organ. Everything feels NORMAL again!! Everyone should come to the show, its really nice! New opening number and effects including a new 53,000 lb. high definition screen at the rear of the stage!
It really lights the place up and there are some nice effects used during the show. I haven't had a chance to discuss terms of the contract yet because I've been "hidden" in the organ chambers doing various work during the shows, gotta take care of the OLD GIRL 1st!

Denpiano, I can just tell from the way you write that you are one happy camper again, good for you! Please when you get a chance, tell us more about the show, escpecially that high def screen, what is it used for. Are they still showing that 3-D movie at the beginning?
Once again congratulations to all the musicians and to Radio City and Major Bloomberg for helping make it all happen.

Vito, the High Def screen is used extensively during the new opening number and is quite effective! It is used as backdrop effects for the Rockettes during their new number. New music, new costumes, and even the steam curtain is used!!Snow flakes fall from "D"cove and dissipate before they hit the seats( Thats a new one). Santa enters the show via a large snowflake being lowered centerstage. The 3D ride in the beginning is still intact. By the way, as Santa is lowered, you can feel the organs big Diaphones shake the place up. The rest of the show is pretty much intact from years past except the effect of Santa leaving to deliver his packages is produced very nicely by the High Def screen.

Thanks Denpiano, you got my juices going, look forward to seeing it.

Does the show still have that bizarre and alienating voice over/scroll at the end of the Nativity? That element (among others) got my blood boiling when I saw the show last year. I had taken my 8 year old daughter to see it remember how amazing it was back in the 70s and frankly, I was appalled at how lame the show was in comparison. And it ain't cheap.

Go back to last years posts here and you'll see the discussion.

Hey Denpiano,

Thanks for giving away the begining of the show for me! :( Will be there on December 9th. How's the Old Girl's health? Betcha she's happy to sing out once again with George and Fred at the twin consoles. Looking forward to next week.

Organ-ized, Sorry for the givaway! just want our out of town friends to get the feel for the show, I hope they can come in and see it. The OLD GIRL is just great! In fine Tune..
CConnolly, yes the Bizarre voice over is still intact and yes the 70's version was nicer in some ways. However, in this day I'm thrilled its still open and showing this performance as it is! Better it remains open and functioning, I'd love to see the old format too, ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN..period . Remember, as long as people pay the price and fill the space, it will stay the same..

Denpiano
Perhaps you can tell us why the wonderful Leonidoff Renaissance Nativity was disposed of and the evangelical crytal palace bogus christian floor show replaced it.
Also do they still have all those big idiot speakers hanging everywhere destroying the grace and beauty of the overlapping arches(and destroying peoples hearing as a residual effect?)

Vincent
Perhaps we were young and those first impressions stay with us, good or bad. Think about it, todays young people will probably be upset in the future if the "Idiot Speakers" are removed, " Hey, wheres the speakers??"
Yes, the Leonidoff Nativity was Beautiful, thank God we were able to experience it! I won't speculate as to why it was replaced and have heard some rediculus reasons by those who "know something". The Music Hall is in business to make money, they are very effective at new ideas to do just that!

Here’s a Program from April, 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-funny1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-funny2.jpg

Grace, elegance, and pizzazz. “Funny Face” with an exceptional Easter stage show evokes sublime memories. To this day in NYC, I still expect to find that terrific bookstore off the Washington Mews with Audrey inside, and to this day I still see Paris through the eyes of Fred’s mythical camera. And whenever I step inside a publishing house, I get a hunch that Kay Thompson lurks just on the other side of the wall. I’m crushed to learn from Warren’s wonderful book on AH that the movie failed to recoup its cost.

The stage extravaganza developed a shipboard-cruise scenario and began with a trained dog act in which a frantic passenger-couple tried to keep their hounds under sendoff control while boarding at Pier 52. Next, the Corps de Ballet swaned around a fog-bound set. Then the ship docked at Port of Spain for a Trinidadian steel-band lime. As the vessel moved on through the Panama Canal, the orchestra mounted the stage (suggesting the action of canal locks, I guess) to arrive at a Panamanian fiesta where the Rockettes kicked to a Latin beat. At the end, the ballet and the choral ensemble joined the kick-line and the now-vacant orchestra-pit elevator rose to stage level filled with tropical flowers. I’ve never been on a Caribbean cruise, but I can’t imagine it getting any better than that.

It is a real treat to find this forum in which to participate. I worked at the Music Hall for a year in 1979 after the conversion to an all-live format. In fact, the 1979 Christmas Show's dubious distinction was that it did not feature a Rockette kick line. The Parade of the Wooden Soldiers was the only Rockette number in that year's show.

It's nice to see Robert Enders posting here. I met him on a few occasions and he is a lovely man as well as one of the best projectionists ever. In reference to an earlier post of his, the other organist in 1979 was David Messineo.

I saw the Christmas Show this week and share many of the concerns addressed by other posters. However, I will address them to the appropriate parties. I agree with Denpiano and I am thrilled that the Music Hall is still open and the Rockettes are still kicking. I also agree with Will Dunklin and I believe that one day there will be a showman (maybe one of us) with the foresight to restore some of the "showmanship" to Radio City. I don't think it is there with the current management, although I am not "in their shoes." I'd like to believe that they are doing the best they can.

I'm much more curious about another point. From the first time I went to Radio City in 1964, that place has been "under my skin." I've heard many people say that "you never forget your first time at the Music Hall." What is it about that place that affects us so? I'm actually spending a little time exploring my own answers to that question. I'd like to know what some of your thoughts are.

DavidM: I've often thought about what you said. I've been going there since 1960 as a kid. I really got hooked in '77 through '79 when I tagged along with a friend who used to be an assistant organist there for annual visits to RCMH. During that time, we were guests of the late, great Ray Bohr, the last chief organist there before the format changed. Ray was very, very proud of "The Old Girl" and this is not an exaggeration. He knew her inside and out.

I basically got to see parts of the theater the public never sees (even on the Backstage Tours), experienced making music on the Wurlitzer and enjoying the Christmas Show, from backstage. One time, I got to see what the curved ceiling looked like from on top, over the organ chambers. I well remember the turmoil in 1978 when the Hall was threatened with destruction. I took home petitions for people to sign for the Music Hall. I believe it was the effort of the "Showpeople's Committee to Save the Music Hall" group, formed by the Rockettes. Yes, the most favorite thing at the Hall is the Wurlitzer, although it is a very difficult on to play, it's really a concert instrument. Denpiano can fill you in more, I'm sure.

But I digress here. It's a combination of architecture, stage craft (effects and otherwise), mystique and Art-Deco ambiance that makes Radio City Music Hall the Radio City Music. There are also very fine houses elsewhere, the Foxes come to mind. But, when it comes to the Music Hall, it's non-pareil. I always equate making a trip to RCMH as worshipping a beauty's throne (to quote the late Ben M. Hall).

I don't mean to patronize Denpiano about my thoughts on the Mightiest of All Wurlitzers, but he and his company deserve lots of kudos for their restoration of her. Theater organs are not Church organs and there's a special talent to service and restore such instruments. Denpiano and his company are fine examples of this special talent. I got to see the organ again in January 2000 after not seeing her since January 1979. The Opposite Prompt console looks like it just came out of the Wurlitzer factory, but the Prompt console, with it additions is an eye-popper. It is actually better than the original, IMHO. It was an emotional experience. Someday, I hope to return for another reunion like the one in 2000. Many classical organista wouldn't give you three cents' for the organ, but they fail to realize it is a concert instrument ... one-of-a-kind built by Wurlitzer. (Many people believe it was designed by another company, W.W. Kimball, and built by Wurlitzer.)

Sure, I'd like to see some of the old format back, too. But for many people who go there, their taste is in their mouths, so management needs to keep the masses coming by using the current show format. <SIGH> I am happy, still, to see it going on in some fashion, though. Better than the place close or worse torn down. Standing in the Grand Foyer waiting for the next show and feeling the rumblings of the organ is part of what it's all about.

By the way Denpiano, is that the thunder effect pedals being used for Santa's arrival? IIRC, there's one based on the Diaphones and the other on the 32' Bombarde. (Call me a RCMH organ junkie!)

Organized
Santa's arrival is greated by the 32's and Diaphone low "D" and also the beautiful Contrabass in the Great division 50th street side.
Concerning Ray Bohr, I've been told by RCB that Ray was quite a technician and helped Ron Sr. many times on repairs. Also,a little known item that much of the music was written in Key of "D" when the organ is included because the building acts as a soundboard for the low "D" Diaphone! Its really an amazing effect, like a tuning fork.

Denpiano: Can't wait. Ask RCB about the time he, Ray et al. were moving a 5-manual Schantz console up a flight of stairs (with a tight squeeze) for a large church in Harlem. Half way up the stairs, some lady was coming down and asked them if they could move back down so she could get by. The lady lost.

Ray started working for a local organ repair company when he was in high school in Nyack, NY. That's when he himself restored the Style E Wurlitzer at the Rockland Theater in Nyack and starting playing the organ there. And the rest is history. There's a Reader's Digest collection of records which has one record with Ray at RCMH. The jacket notes tell that story that Ray used to sneak into Church as a little kid to try out his piano pieces and got caught. I asked him if it were true. After turning a couple of shades of red, he said it was.

I may check to see if you are in the building on December 9th after the show. Be nice to say "hello."

It was sheer joy to find this page today. I had been listening to my 1958 RCA LP #LOP 1010 purchased at the Music Hall the year I was married. (I was born in 1936 on Long Island and lived there till my marriage in 1958 when we settled in Buffalo. Christmas in NY was my wedding gift to my wife.) For years the Music Hall had been the only place my parents allowed my sister and me to see movies. "If the Music Hall shows it, it must be OK." They were OK, and impressive as well; unlike the modern mulptiplex theaters whose screens, relative to one's distance from them are little more than big screen TV's, the RCM screen defined "larger than life" no matter where you sat.

My love was the Grand Organ, with or without the orchestra. A low pedal rumbled the theater and our seats, and like a wizard from Oz, the magician of the keyboard appeared from behind the curtains at our left. Sometimes he introduced a film with a medley; sometimes it seemed as if he joined the soundtrack at beginning or end. I still remember the bouncing pedal of "Once in Love with Amy" as Ray Bolger came from the left of the screen along an English field dike. Too bad the film is lost to posterity. Nothing set moods for stage show or film like the Grand Organ.

The concert nature of the Grand Organ came through at the holidays, Christmas and Easter. It was superior to many church organs for religious music. And the pedal on Rubinstein's "Kammennoi Ostrow" coupled with the orchestra as the altar of a large cathedral appeared in the Easter show was thrilling!

Numerous times we traveled from Buffalo with our 4 kids to visit Grandma and Grandpa and have Christmas in New York. Three times the kids got to experience Radio City's Christmas Show. Though I would like my 14 grandkids to have the experience of the Music Hall Christmas show, it is far beyond the scope of my retirement income and no great-grandparents are alive to house us to soften the expense.

I listen to my LP recording and I imagine the show. I think I can hear the organ in the Nativity, but that may be wishful thinking. In the Grand Organ section, I know it is the voice of the RCM Wurlizer. I purchased a Radio City Music Hall Christmas CD several years ago only to be disappointed. It was recorded in Europe; it lacked the organ, a full orchestra, and the acoustics of the RCM. A keyboard is a poor substitute for a great organ.

Thirty or so years ago HBO did a presentation of the Radio City Christmas show. Joel Grey was narrator and told how, though he was Jewish, he grew up loving this spectacular; his enthusiasm appeared in his narration. If a DVD of the show were available,it would have a market and a purpose. It would allow all of those who will never be able to afford the show to see it and hear it, or at least a shadow of it. It might even encourage others to make an effort to find the dollars to see it.

Also needed a CD set of the Grand Organ with some of the stage show music from the Christmas and Easter shows as well as some of medley arrangements used in the past. While a few RCM organ LP's were made and I have most, a new digital recording of the restored intstument would sell. I have no idea where to promote these ideas, but I hope someone out there has the connections to get both going.

ldtaylor

IdaTaylor-
I have made several personal Digital recordings of music on the Wurlitzer, including the use of the Big diaphone that you referred to. Unfortunately I take care of the instrument and cannot market the disc as it is Cablevision domain. I am however working on having the organ recorded comercially and will be discussing it with my bosses at the end of the current show run. Hopefully, and I say that very cautiously, they will make my request come true. It has not been easy!! I love that OLD GIRL and want nothing more then to share her slendor with all who love and remember its grand sound!

Ida Taylor,

You might be able to get a commerially recorded CD of the "Old Girl" of Christmas music. Look for CBS Special Products #A19990, titled The Organ PLays Music for A Merry Christmas. You might be able to find it with the seasonal Christmas CD's amd cassettes. The CD features Dick Leibert at the RCMH Grande Organ and Reginald Dixon at the Tower Ballroom's Wurlitzer in Blackpool, England. The Leibert numbers are classic Leibert, but the Dixon numbers are clearly Christmas music, set to dance rhythm, typical of Dixon and the Tower Ballroom.

Denpiano, we'll keep our fingers crossed down here. It would be marvellous to have a current recording of the Old Girl. The last recording I have of her is a private recording by made in 1979 Ray Bohr, including his signature piece, The Song is Ended. I digitized Ray's tape to CD so it won't be lost.

Organized
If you want to let me know where your seat location and time of show is, I'd like to say hello! E-Mail me @Dennispianos@AOL.com. Its getting really busy around the Hall and I may not be able to comment here for a while. God Luck to all and a Happy Healthy Holiday season!

To B0B,
I guess that most of the musicals in that golden year of '57 that played the Hall failed to make back their investment except maybe Pajama Game?
Considering that the Hall's interior is one of New York's great architectural triumphs and Leonidoff and Markert utilized the lighting of the arches to great wondrous effect I find it pretty amazing that I seem to be the only one bothered be the speakers in the auditorium. Nobody seems to realize it but especially for the Christmas show THEY ARE NOT NEEDED.
The Music Hall lasted for 50 years without them. Or are audiences today so disastrous that they need everthing blasted at them to make them notice something is happening on stage?
Why has not one architectural critic not taken note?

Vincent--I agree with you. The new speakers are a visual distraction.

Yes... It's annoying that producers do not trust the natural acoustics of a theatrical space work their magic. This has long been a point of consternation with respect to the amplified presentation of most legitimate Broadway productions in recent years. Projection of one's voice has become a lost art of sorts among current Broadway performers... Or perhaps "hidden art" is a more appropriate term since many capable singers are probably asked to tone it down and let the mic sell the number to those in the farthest reaches of the mezzanine.

Surely, the RCMH organ doesn't require electronic amplification... does it?

According to an above post by Denpiano the wretched excuse for humanity that currently runs the Hall feels the old organ does indeed need some sort of amplification.

Hello again.
Just came across this in moms Rockette collection: 8x10 photo and original press note for it that might interest some of you:

Associated Press Photo from New York City

"Chorines Help Load Scrap
Chorus girls snappily load scrap onto a truck at one of the theatres in Radio City in New York Oct 14. About 30,000 pounds of scrap metal were collected at the Theatre.
Associated Press Photo 10/14/42

The b&w photo is of the Rockettes handing items to a truck parked outside as a few onlookers stand on sidewalk watching.

Also FYI:
A one page article entitled "I Got My Kicks at Radio City" by Grace Case, San Diego, CA
"Performing with the Rockettes in 1935 might have looked glamorous, but it was tough work"
The article appears in "Reminisce Extra" December 1996.
I am told it is a pretty accurate portrayal of the times.

From what I understood, the organ always used to be amplified - the microphones were embedded in the outer edges of the chambers. Once when the interior was repainted, the microphones were painted over and ruined and then never used again. As of now, it's difficult to hear the organ when there's a large crowd.

Found this page as well:
Schedule for the Music Hall
Saturday Oct 2, 1937
Feature: Lost Horizon
Shows a Chart with headings: Numbers, Length, 1st thru 6th
Organ (Length) 5,
Silly Symphony & Trailer (Length) 10,
Overture the Bolt (Length) 8,
Stage Show (Length) 19
Feature (Length) 117
Midnight Show: Cartoon

followed by chart for Sun Oct 3, 1937
and Mon to Wed Oct 4,5,6, 1937

Not sure if these are rare or not however we have a couple Radio City Music Hall Bulletins from 1937, 1938 and 1939
"Published Fortnightly By and For the Employees"

Enjoy!

RE PeterApruzzese's: "From what I understood, the organ always used to be amplified - the microphones were embedded in the outer edges of the chambers. Once when the interior was repainted, the microphones were painted over and ruined and then never used again. As of now, it's difficult to hear the organ when there's a large crowd."

Denpiano would probably give us a definitive answer on this. IIRC, the amplification was only used for the percussions, such as the piano, glockenspiel, chimes, etc. Now, the house sound system is so loud, the organ is "softer" than what's played through the system. As mentioned previously, there was a time that the loudest musical instrument in the theater was the organ. I agree, there is no reason to blast everyone's ears off during the show.

It's difficult to hear the organ when people in the audience don't shut up when the organ starts before the show. They don't realize the organ "Prelude" is part of the show. <SIGH> I 'spose audiences aren't what they once were. Also, it depends on where you are sitting in the theatre to hear the organ the best. I think Denpiano would agree with me that the center front of the third mezzanine is a great place to hear the entire organ as those seats are fairly adjacent to the organ chambers.

RE TDTaylor's: "The concert nature of the Grand Organ came through at the holidays, Christmas and Easter. It was superior to many church organs for religious music. And the pedal on Rubinstein's "Kammennoi Ostrow" coupled with the orchestra as the altar of a large cathedral appeared in the Easter show was thrilling."

Many people forget that the Music Hall was designed as a concert organ, not a theater organ per se. It is capable of playing both styles of music. There is a very similar instrument from which the Music Hall's evolved. It's the organ in the Atlantic City Boardwalk Hall's (formerly Convention Hall) Ball Room built by W.W. Kimball. It has 55 sets (ranks) of pipes and the Music Hall has the same 55 sets, plus three more. It is generally thought the Music Hall organ was designed by Kimball (as Roxy was said to favor Kimballs) but it was eventually built by Wurlitzer and the specifications remained unchanged. The pedal on the Music Hall organ is indeed thrilling ... even today! Bach's Toccata from his Toccata and Fugue in d-minor is impressive on the Wurlitzer.

Here’s a Program from March, 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-spirit1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-spirit2.jpg

Another rousing show that year, “The Spirit of St. Louis” and its stage presentation marked a couple of departures. For one, the film bore none of Billy Wilder’s trademark cynicism or irony; or, if it did, those qualities worked so subtly against the film’s celebratory grain that they provided just enough grit to form a pearl. I found it amazing how one actor and a buzzing fly could sustain such attention for so long in a film whose outcome we knew from the start. I shall never forget the ending with the actor and the plane alone in the hanger at Le Bourget as French crowds intoned Lindbergh’s name, the actor naively intoning “There were 200,000 people there that night. And when we came back home, there were 4 million people waiting,” and finally the cut to actual footage of Lindy’s ticker-tape parade in NYC, with “Stars and Stripes Forever” on the soundtrack, now synchronized with the Grand Organ as the great contour curtain fell.

A second departure, as I’ve already remarked on this page (23 July 2004) is that the organ interludes before and after the movie and stage show were framed in a way I'd never experienced before or after at RCMH. Instead of using the golden houselights on the contour curtain and arches, the tech crew lit the entire auditorium in sky blue to match the movie's theme. And instead of using organ #1 on the left as usual, they used organ #2 on the right. I remember thinking, jees, all these tourists here for the first and maybe last time will never see the famous "sunset" effect of the golden curtain. Some might recall that the newsreels and next-attraction announcement always took place under dimly blue-lit arches to enable arriving and departing patrons to navigate the aisles. For the interludes at this show, the intensity was ratcheted up several levels to bathe the house in Lindy blue. Odd.

A third, but expected, departure was a very brief stage show to make up for the extreme length of the film. I remember its prevailing color scheme figured as blue, too. The opening classical ballet gave way to 1920s-ish Gershwinesque tunes sung by the Foursome (who would reappear later that year in the stage show with “The Pajama Game”). That in turn gave way to a stage set of enormous magazine covers, from which the Rockettes stepped out to perform their routine. Then came the finale and that was it for the show. The program provides credits for umbrellas used in one of the acts, but for the life of me, I can’t remember how they played out in the scenario.

This may have been posted before
There is an article and full page picture in Invention & Technology Winter 1992 entitled "A Tremendous Lift".. about Radio City, the elevators etc.

Site that lists some of the dancers, articles written about and other info about the Rockettes:

http://www.streetswing.com/histmai2/d2rockt1.htm

I just picked up a trio of Rockettes while shopping for Christmas ornaments the other evening... Actually, the Rockettes were ornaments, in miniature, to go along with my little Department 56 set of "Christmas in the City" decorative models. I bought them to compliment the Radio City Music Hall piece from that series.

Somewhere buried in my belongings is a souvenir booklet from the 1978 RCMH presentation of the movie "Crossed Swords" (which was to have been the Hall's final show ever - until a stay of execution was issued). The booklet, as I recall, featured a history of the theater including an item (with illustration) about the stage elevators and other RCMH technical innovations. If I ever get a chance to dig it out, I might spring to have it digitized - perhaps in a PDF document - and see if I can upload it for view here. I also have a wonderful original hardocver souvenir booklet my Mom saved for "How the West Was Won" that features an explanation of the 3-strip Cinerama process as well as a vintage souvenir program for "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World." None of these are in particularly good condition, but I'd love to share them with everyone here if I can figure out how.

BOBill,
Your descriptions of the year '57 have been especially wonderful.
St Louis is a terrific film and with some of that amazing photography and the great set pieces it must have been very exciting on the Music Hall screen. I'm just sorry Wilder didn't get a younger actor for Lindberg. Stewart was far too old to play a young fearless aviator at this point(He would have been perfect in '37.)

So with all the corporate sponsorship Cablevision has for their events that they charge $100 a ticket for they can't get sponsorship for Saturday or Sunday afternoon movies with shorts and the organ.
The New York department of cultural affairs should demand they show King Kong with Denpiano at the organ.
By the way went to the lower arcade of the RCA Building yesterday for the first time since the vandalism. The cheap stucco they used to replace the gleaming black marble Art Deco walls has gotten dirty and it now resembles an underground strip mall in Fort Lee, New Jersey.

Vincent--
Thanks for your kind comments on my reviews of 1957. I have one more before moving on to 1956. Here’s a Program from January 1957:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-barretts1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-barretts2.jpg

This must be a rare document, because in a post on 14 July 2004 above, SimonL pointed out that “The Barretts of Wimpole Street” garnered the smallest attendance of any film in the glory days of RCMH. The opening week earned $85,000, at a time when the theater’s standard receipts usually hit $140,000 or higher. The show stayed on for an equally dismal second week, and then folded. I can only wonder what prospective audiences might have thought. “Just who were the Barretts of Wimpole Street?” “I think they lived in England.” “O.” “And I think one of them was sick, took morphine, and wrote poetry.” “O.” “And I think she married a guy who was younger than she was and who also wrote poetry.” “O.” “And I think they eloped to Tuscany.” “O. What’s playing at the Roxy?”

If I remember correctly, the movie stopped short of depicting the birth of the Barrett-Brownings’ son in Italy when Elizabeth was forty-three years old and still hypochondriac. They named the boy “Pennini” (I am not joking). The film’s major nod to poetry came in its first frames with an off-screen Jennifer Jones reciting “How Shall I Love Thee?”over images of trees. But the great contour curtain rose slowly and the Grand Organ’s final strains muffled out the sound of the words till they got lost in the high arches. It’s a shame that MGM made these poets’ lives seem so shallow. Besides “Shakespeare in Love,” what good movies are there about poets? Rudolf Friml’s “Vagabond King”? Someone should film Goethe’s “Tasso” or Pierre Louys’s “Sappho” and give it a midnight screening at RCMH. For the record, “Anastasia” was playing as a Christmas hold-over at the Roxy, to be followed by Frank Tashlin’s “The Girl Can’t Help It” with Jayne Mansfield, Tom Ewell, Fats Domino, The Platters, Little Richard, and a dozen other Rock’n’Roll stars.

For all that, I remember the stage show as being quite good. The newspaper theme opened with the Choral Ensemble singing about frantic nights at the daily press and moved to the Rockettes who boogied on the thirty-six keys of a giant typewriter. The entertainment and metro pages were filled by Richiardi, a magician who in the ‘70s mounted his own show on B’way, and by Janik and Arnaut, exotic dancers (in the old sense of the words) who executed a snake charmer number. The conclusion took us to a front-page report on President Eisenhower’s Inaugural Ball that year, with the Corps de Ballet garbed in red, white, and blue for a gambol along the Potomac. There was no Jenna to contend with.

Seeing the ad for a John Wayne movie got me to thinking of the very few films of his that played at the Hall. Certainly The Quiet Man would have been perfect as has been discussed before. What other Hollywood stars had few films there? Did any Crawford movies get a showing? Seems to me she was more of a Capitol/Strand star.

Here is a very good 1978 NY Times story on the Music Halls booking problems.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Theatres/BestMovies.jpg

If you scan down to the bottom of the page you can see an ad for the show "Wonder World" that Leonidoff created for the 1964-65 World's Fair.
http://www.peacethroughunderstanding.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1384

RobertR,
There is a good Times' article on the death of the roadshow from '69. It would be great if you could find it and post it on the Rivoli or Criterion page.

According to a story in the current issue of Billboard, a new executive has taken over the bookings of RCMH and the two Madison Square Garden venues. In future, he hopes to have more concert bookings at RCMH in the summer months, which is a peak time for tourists visiting the city.

Gee how about more shows with the organ and the Rockettes for the summer months with all those tourists. Something that would take into consideration the theater itself, the stage capabilities and keep it open all day every day employing many musicians and performers.
But what am I thinking? Treating the Music Hall like it were an arena for hockey games is Cablevision shomanship at its finest.
Why don't they just save the lobby and turn the rest of it into a condo.

Vincent-
You are totally correct about showcasing the theatres many "Capabilities" and one would think that the "Norm' would be to run a wonderful Summer show!! Unfortunately we are thinking with our hearts,not our corporate heads. Its like any other business, when Mom & Pop pass on the STORE to the kids, it usually signals the end of a glorious era. I can only hope that some of our finer execs will come through this coming year. I can tell you that I have come to know some nice people here and I feel there is some hope.
KEEP THE FAITH Folks!

Well said Denpiano, at this point all we can ask, is when ever you have corporates ear, you keep the spirit of the music hall we once knew and loved alive, never letting them forget that the hall can be more than just a concert venue or basketball court.

The 1961 Christmas show
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/Movie%20Ads/BabesinToyland.jpg

My first trip to NYC was in December 1970, when I was nine. I went with a church group to see the Christmas show. The film was Bedknobs and Broomsticks, with Angela Lansbury. We also saw the Rockettes and Santa, which was a great production. I remember getting lost trying to find the restroom and crashing a cocktail party somewhere in the building. NYC is a great place to be at Christmas time.

Ken mc
you probably went in '71. There was a Christmas Circus stage show with that one. Scrooge was '70.
Robert that's a great Music Hall Christmas ad. I always liked that illustration of the Leonidoff Nativity used until '69 though its a bit fuzzyy on microfilm.

There is a new coffee table book of the photos of Gottscho called the Mythic City. Times Square at night photos to die for and stunning photos of the Hall auditorium. One before any curtains have been hung, a two pager, is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen.

Vincent, you have a much better memory than I do. I'm sure you're right.

Here’s a Program from December 1956:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-teahouse1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-teahouse2.jpg

“Teahouse of the August Moon” and the Christmas stage show was another package that I saw twice at RCMH, but for the inverse reason that made me repeat the following year’s offering. This time I went first with my parents early in the run (“Marlon Brando is such a great actor: let’s see what he can do with comedy!”). The film’s opening music knocked me over: I had never heard such exotic sounds and rhythms, such tempo, high pitch, and syncopation. The sanshin and samisen strings, taiko drums, and bamboo flutes sent shivers down my spine. The following Monday on my way home after school, I swerved uncontrollably towards Sam Goody’s on W. 48 (then Gotham’s biggest and only discount record store) to find the best approximation I could, a recording of Kabuki music (“Sir, do you sell any Japanese music?” “Yes, young man; I think you might like this one: it’s called Kabuki.”) My friends thought I was crazy to spend money I’d saved for Christmas shopping, but after hearing it, they too went wild over the sound. The following Saturday, we headed to RCMH to see the film before the holiday lines grew too long. I never told my parents, because they would have thought it a waste of time to see a film you’d already seen.

The circus-themed stage numbers included what must have been an acrobatic or highwire act (is that what Melitta and Wicons did?), an act with chimpanzees, and the Rockettes as lions and tigers tamed by the rhythm of their tap shoes. On the program’s final page is an invitation to visit the US Rubber’s Exhibit Hall on the site of the former Center Theater. The space constitutes what had been the theater’s grand lobby, which had closed early in ’54. Its auditorium became a parking garage. What a loss.

Funny, B.O.Bill, that you say Sam Goody's was a discount record store in those days. I can't say that I've been in a Sam Goody's in quite a number of years, but the store's prices for CD's in the '80's and '90's could hardly be called "discount." I remember they were selling titles for $16.99 and $18.99 while bigger stores like Tower Records were selling them for $12.99 to $14.99. Today, I don't think Goody's can compete with the discounts offered by the larger electronic chains like Circuit City and bargain stores like Target and Best Buy. But, there it still stands on W. 48th and stores like FYE which are also priced above the bigger chains seem to be hanging in as well.

I found my souvenir booklet from the run of the 1978 film "Crossed Swords" which was advertised as the Hall's last feature attraction and played from March to April with the Easter stage show. There are actually two booklets that I still have... one in specific to the film itself with a red "Final Attraction" sticker affixed to the front and the other was a general booklet about the Hall itself. In my memory I fused the two into one publication. I want to scan the cover of the film souvenir and load it on my photobucket site to share here. As for the Hall booklet, I'd really like to have the entire booklet scanned in high quality, perhaps as an Adobe PDF document. Does anyone here know if I can load a file like that up to photobucket? If not, are there sites that would allow me to upload the file so that I might share it here? If not I might just scan select pages myself and post them as images.

Next month, RCMH will stage "Myths & Legend-- The 2006 Chinese New Year Gala," produced by New Tang Dynasty TV, which will bring together "world class Asian and Western artists to include elements of both music and dance for the whole family to enjoy." I wonder if the cast will include the Rockettes? There will be one performance on January 20 at 8PM, and matinee and evening performances on January 21. Tickets for all performances are priced from $49 to $200, according to the RCMH website.

Columnist Liz Smith today (12/23/2005) chimes in on the Christmas show:

EVERY YEAR I go to the Radio City Christmas Show, and I hear people carping and complaining that Radio City ends its extravaganza of sleighs, dancing bears, tin soldiers, Santas by the stageful, Mrs. Claus, elves, skaters, ballerinas and the fabulous Rockettes by staging a tremendous presentation of the Nativity — the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem. Some object to this religious spectacle with the Magi, the shepherds, the star, the inn with no room, camels, donkeys and sheep all worshipping while over it they run and read aloud the words of James Allan Francis. This pastor of Riverside Baptist Church wrote back in 1926:

"He was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another obscure village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was 30. Then for three years, he was an itinerant preacher. He never had a family or owned a home. He never set foot inside a big city. He never traveled 200 miles from the place He was born. He never wrote a book or held an office. He did none of things that usually accompany greatness.

"While He was still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against him. His friends deserted Him. He was turned over to His enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves. While He was dying, His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had — His coat. When He was dead, He was taken down and laid in a borrowed grave.

"Twenty centuries have come and gone, and today, He is the central figure for much of the human race. All the armies that ever marched and all the navies that ever sailed and all the parliaments that ever sat and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as this 'One Solitary Life.' "

You can still go to Radio City and leave before the Nativity scene if you feel it's going to offend you. But how could you ever escape the history of that one solitary life even if you felt it has no meaning for you? Well, I always sit there and cry. And I congratulate Radio City for its determination to keep and give Christmas its ultimate meaning.

Following is a diagram showing the price structure for the upcoming Chinese New Year show. The cheapest seats ($49) are only in the back of the second mezzanine. Curiously, seats in the front center orchestra are $20 cheaper than those a bit further back:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/rcmh06.jpg

For live performances, front-row seats are never the best in the house (too close to the musicians who drown out the performers; to close to the stage to get a full view of the set; often they are used for company comps). The choice seats are usually center rows E to G in a large house or D to F in a smaller one. At RCMH, the mamouth scale likely dictates a somewhat wider span for choice seats. But I'm astonished that the front center mezzanine also commands the highest price, since the balconies are set so far back. The worst seats I ever had for any performance anywhere were for "Riverdance" at RCMH in the mid-'90s. The cost hit mid-range on the price-scale, but the seats turned up in the rear orchestra and the sound was muffled while the performers looked like peanuts. Ever seen a peanut dance an Irish reel?

Happy anniversary to Radio City which opened today in 1932

I erred in my post of 12/25/05. For the Chinese New Year shows, the cheapest seats ($49) are only at the rear of the THIRD (and highest) mezzanine, not the second. Seats at the rear of the second mezzanine are $59 each.

Right--but I bet the rear of the third mezzanine is at least as good as and possibly better than the rear of the second. In the first and second mezzanines, as well as in the rear orchestra, the overhanging upper structures would muffle the sound, whereas in the third mezzanine the sound rolls gently off the curved ceiling. I sat in the third balcony several times, but never in the first or second; rear orchestra seats under the first mezzanine are terrible.

Right--but I bet the rear of the third mezzanine is at least as good as and possibly better than the rear of the second. In the first and second mezzanines, as well as in the rear orchestra, the overhanging upper structures would muffle the sound, whereas in the third mezzanine the sound rolls gently off the curved ceiling. I sat in the third balcony several times, but never in the first or second; rear orchestra seats under the first mezzanine are terrible.

I agree with BoxOfficeBill about the third mezzanine being a better choice than the first or second. I sat in the first for the 50th anniversary showing of "Gone With the Wind", and it seemed very closed-off and restricted. You got no sense of the huge scale of the Hall, which you very definitely get from the third mezzanine.

The balconies at the Hall are also set very far back from the stage, so they still afford a more level viewing angle than smaller theaters where the angles are much more steep.

Here’s a Program from November, 1956:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-friendly1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-friendly2.jpg

“Friendly Persuasion” came to us with a lot of misleading advertising: Tony Perkins, America’s latest heartthrob; Pat Boone singing the hit theme, “Thee I Love.” Who could have the stomach for Pat Boone? Somehow, friends persuaded me to go, and I found it hugely entertaining. I’m not sure that I knew what “A Wyler Film” meant in those days, but its quality surely touched me. The same could be said for “The George Stevens’ Production” then playing down the block at the Roxy. And as with “Giant” at that theater, the extended length of “Friendly Persuasion” (two hours and twenty minutes) at RCMH made for an abbreviated stage show. I recall nothing specific from it, but the title of the Rockettes’ musical number is undeniably evocative.

"Friendly Persuasion" was the first and I believe the only Allied Artists production to ever play at the Hall. Getting a Hall booking was a coup. It was supposed to inaugurate a new era for this B studio. It didn't. It did only moderate business and issued in a rather long spell of poor business. Except for the Christmas show ("Teahouse...") the Hall had to take it on the chin with two weeks of "The Barretts of Wimpole Street" (the lowest grossing film since "The Hills of Home"), followed by a tepid three weeks of "The Wings of Eagles," and then "The Spirit of St. Louis," which was very disappointing at the box office despite a strong Washington's Birthday opener. Bravo to Boxoffice Bill for bringing back the memory of the organ chiming in with film's finale as the great contour curtain fell. Luckily audiences returned for "Funny Face and the Easter show. There were always dry spells but that one in 1956-57 gave a preivew of things to come and proved that audiences were beginning to get very selective even when going to the Hall.

If Giant and Persuasion were playing against each other was the Roxy outgrossing the Hall?
Perhaps the Hall at this point knew that only Holiday and summer shows would bring in the crowds. And this would only last til '68.

Well, I can now say that I have finally seen the RCMH Christmas Spectacular. Though it was in Charlotte NC and not NYC, I enjoyed it as the tears flowed when I first caught a glimpse of the 18 Rockettes enter the stage. I would have liked a live orchestra and I thought the live nativity scene was a bit 'over the top'though it was beautifully portrayed and in keeping with the overall 'over the top' production. My favorite part of the show was the march of the wooden soldiers and their famous collapse which is depicted on the mugs sold before and during intermission. Happy New Year to All!

Vincent: "Giant" opened at the Roxy in mid October and had a super fine opening week of $162,000 (Its final ninth week only grossed $37,000). ("Anastasia" pulled in a bit more during the Christmas/New Years weeks in its eight-week run). By the time "Friendly Persuasion" opened in November at the Hall, "Giant" was slipping badly and grossing under $100,000. It did not sustain itself as well as "The King and I" (the previous film) over its nine-week run. Opening round for The King and I was $158,000, with subsequent weeks pulling in $130,000, $124,000, $126,000, $105,000 etc. "Friendly Persuasion" was no world beater but its four-week run began with a moderate $140,000 and ended its four-week run with a similar gross in its final Thanksgiving week. The Roxy had a hard time pulling in $100,000 while the Hall consistantly stayed above that figure.

SimonL-- Yes, you've documented it exactly. In the mid-to-late '50s, Variety consistently reported weekly grosses of $120,000-to-$150,000 at RCMH, and double that by the time prices had doubled in the mid-'60s. Christmas and Easter weeks in the mid-'50s would reach $180,000. Weekends always brought packed houses, and summers would also register a rise in daily attendance.

The famous lines at Christmas and Easter grew primarily at morning and early afternoon performances, packed with families and children, but prices were lower at those times. On ordinary weekends, however, long lines regularly formed for evening performances when prices were higher. Consequently, the grosses for a couple of solid weekend evenings could approach or equal those for an entire week of mornings and matinees at holiday times.

Late-winter months always marked the slowest business. Between mid-January and mid-March in the post-WWII years through the mid-60s, RCMH usually turned over three bookings(and turned over four during those weeks in 1950).

BoxOfficeBill: I can't compete with your astounding memory, but as a Roxy usher in 1956/57, I was occasionally sent to do an attendance check at the Hall. What always astonished me was how quickly the Roxy would fill up once the last stage show at the Hall had begun and the door men began announcing that there was waiting in the lobby for the last feature only. You could see hundreds of disappointed people heading back to 7th Avenue to see the last complete show at the Roxy which began around 10 pm. The last stage show at the Hall began, except on rare occasions, shortly after 9pm. The Roxy was never noted as a matinee theater, it appealed to a more middle brow audience who liked a star turn, a big band sound, and no highfallutin dancing. It was only during the war years (1942-45) that the Roxy came close to rivaling the Hall. The Hall, however, is where many of us of a certain age who couldn't afford the Met or Carnegie Hall learned to appreciate classical music, dance, opera, etc. in a classy setting. What a legacy!

Wow, so many lovers of Radio City. I live an hour away in New Jersey but still want to get back in there. My most recent memory is of a Theatre Organ Society gathering there back in the late 70's. It was a demonstration of the theatre's wonderfully flexible capabilities AND a concert of organ music -- including a duet by two organists actually playing the master and slave consoles on both sides of the stage. So much better to hear a real concert than the way it used to be played between movie and stage show while the audience could come and go making almost as much noise as the organ was making music!

Can't help thinking about the new "video wall" installed in the Music Hall. It looked good in the opening number and looked like a video screen in every other number it was used in. I have a feeling that eventually, we will not see any scenery at the Music Hall. Pity.

I hope to someday tour and see a show at Radio City, but many CT members/New Yorkers who have a history of going there over the years seem to express many changes that have occurred over the years. I guess with time comes change and not always for the good though there will always only be one Radio City Music Hall and it is a special theatre. Santa brought me the Dept 56 RCMH this year and I plan to leave it on display all year long as I just love it. I didn't get the 4 kicking Rockettes that come separately, but may sometime. Dept. 56 also offers the Ed Sullivan Theatre.

Here’s a Program from May, 1956:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-bohwani1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-bhowani2.jpg

“Bhowani Junction” showed off Ava Gardner, Pakistan, Northern India, and George Cuckor’s eye for spectacle all at once. 1956 was a year of great competition for RCMH with the Roxy as the latter had booked blockbuster Fox musicals (“Carousel,” “The King and I”) ordinarily associated with MGM and the Music Hall. “Junction” seemed an answer to Fox’s “Rains of Ranchipur” which had played at the Roxy the previous Christmas, just as the sophisticated sexiness of Ava seemed an alternative to the spontaneous sex-appeal of Marilyn Monroe, whose “Bus Stop” was slated to park at the Roxy.

The stage show, too, revealed competitive ambitions. The Rock-’n-Roll number in the “Block Party” sequence marked the first time in my experience that such barbarous noise (introduced to teen-aged America only a year earlier) was heard at RCMH, briefly displacing the hitherto canonical Gershwin, Porter, Kern, et al. Chopin’s melodies in any case ended the show with a divertissement by the Corps de Ballet augmented by toe-dancing Rockettes. In between that and the Rockette’s earlier high kicks performed against a Times Square setting, we thrilled to the Three Houcs, a trio of jugglers, and Pat Henning, a stand-up commedian.

My grandfather had heard that the show was sensational, and he popped me five dollars to take a friend to see it. With the money left over (the 10:30 am show cost 90 cents in those days), we went afterwards to MoMA (50 cents in those days) to see a screening of “The Lady Vanishes,” and still had enough to spend on movies the following week.

What is this video wall? Where is it placed and how is it used?

And whose idea was it to put in this video wall? Sounds too high-tech to me.

Patsy... I had the Dept 56 RCMH under my tree this year. I love the lights! This year, we picked up the Ed Sullivan Theater as well as the dancing Rockettes (there are 3 not 4) which my dog got hold of and decapitated! So, we'll have to pick it up again. I love the Christmas in the City set. We buy a new one every year. The Ed Sullican isn't exactly an accurate representation (much like the Yankee Stadium model which makes the concrete facade appear as if it is constructed of red brick) but it makes for a nice Holiday decoration. I'm curious... where in NC did you catch the Christmas Spectacular? I didn't know that it toured.

Ed: Oh yes, the RCMH Christmas show tours and has been touring for several years. I saw the show on Dec. 30th at Ovens Auditorium in Charlotte. It was my first time to see the show and when the Rockettes first appeared on stage a tear fell among my cheek as I had waited all my life to see them, in person! Though if I had had a choice I would have chosen to see them for the first time on stage at RCMH with a live orchestra! Sorry about your Rockettes meeting up with your dog!

The video wall is a high tech L.E.D. unit placed very close to the back wall,this is where it will remain. My understanding is that when Jim Dolan was in Las Vegas, he was very impressed with its capabilities and ordered one for the Music Hall. Everyone should relax!! staging will not change because of "THE WALL", this unit is
used in addition to the regular sets. I've seen some tests to be used for the upcoming Chinese New Year show and their effects and
graphics are stunning. This is in addition to regular sets. I suspect
this unit will bring more business to the Hall in that those that wouldn't come here before, will come now. I believe we will see some
very nice shows this year, keep your fingers crossed!

Denpiano:

How can you say that "staging will not change?" It already has. The backdrop for "Parade of the Wooden Soldiers" was the video wall, instead of the whimsical Lisanby set. A blue video wall certainly did not coujure up thoughts of a toy shop. I always thought "Here Comes Santa Claus" worked so well with that mirrored backdrop, which also gave a thrill to those of us in the audience who could see ourselves. Not anymore with a video wall full of projected Santas. And during the reindeer number, the moon had video lines all the way through it. As I said, the wall looked great in the opening number, but after that it didn't. The wall has it's merits, but nothing takes the place of wonderful scenery. BTW, Denpiano, what do you do at the hall?

Is this video wall that you all talk about just at RCMH or is perhaps a smaller version of it taken on the road tours? Also, in Charlotte there were 18 Rockettes and so I wonder how many are on the RCMH stage....twice that number?

The recent hit revival of the Odd Couple got me to thinking about one of its funnier jokes.
For those of you who were lucky enough to have seen the film during its run at the Hall what kind of response did FU get?
Did people get it? Did it get a big laugh? Or did it go over the heads of most of the Music Hall audience?

I only wish the prices for good event seating at the Hall would come down. Top price is $200 for the upcoming Chinese New Year show. I understand there is a scale and one can get in for as little as $49, if you don't mind the third tier, you can't touch the orchestra for less than $85 - and that's all the way at the rear. That starts piling up pretty high if you want to bring the family along. Those ridiculous "Premium Seat" schemes aside, $100 will get you a top notch seat in the more intimate legitimate theaters of Broadway.

I suppose its what the market will bear, however. As long as they keep selling tickets at that level, the prices will never be lowered. I noticed that top price tickets for the current Rolling Stones stint at the Madison Square Garden are going for $454!!! Imagine that! I can recall seeing the Stones at the Garden in 1981 for something like $17.50. Never mind that back in the late '70's you got the stage show AND a movie at RCMH for very popular prices.

Vincent: I was 13 years old at the time. I don't recall the exact reaction to the FU joke but I do remember that many of the lines of dialogue couldn't be heard at all because the audience was still laughing so hard from the previous jokes. FU probably got a huge laugh that drowned out the next few lines in the script.

My other big memory of seeing "The Odd Couple" at Radio City involved my family walking back to the Port Authority Bus Terminal after the movie. My mom and sister wanted to go shopping on 7th Ave., but I did my best to get us to take a detour to Broadway and 50th St. so I could get one more look at the Capitol's marquee featuring "2001" (which I'd seen a few weeks earlier. It's still my all-time favorite movie). Since it wasn't really on our way, I wasn't successful. But now I have a picture of that marquee on my computer desktop, and I can see it every day.

Imagine your mom and sister not wanting to see the marquee at the Capitol with 2001 on it! I didn't think such people existed!
By the way did you see it at the Rivoli in 76 or 77? It was as they say awesome.

I did see it at the Rivoli, in '76 I think. I also saw it at the Music Hall in '75. Nothing compares to the long-lost Capitol, though. That was the biggest screen I think I've ever seen in my life. Of course, being 13 years old when I saw it might have something to do with that opinion, not to mention the colossal scale of the movie itself. I still remember how the curtains kept on opening and opening, and how the screen touched the ceiling and the floor. My dad took me to see it - he wound up not liking the movie but he sure was impressed by the size of the screen.

"2001" is also my all-time favorite film, Bill. "Dr. Strangelove" is not too far behind. Kubrick may be my very favorite director. A friend of the family named Henry took me to see the movie when I was very, very young - perhaps 4 or 5 - towards the end of its initial theatrical release. I can vaguely remember childhood images from the opening "dawn of man" sequence up on a huge screen. I also saw "Planet of the Apes" around this time - maybe a year or so earlier - and I remember when I was 8 or 9 mistaking my memories of "2001" for "Apes." Later, when I went to see the Fox "Go Ape" revival of all 5 “Apes” films on the same bill, I realized nothing in the movie matched the images I had in my mind of naked apes coming up over a hill in a threatening manner. When my Dad took me to see "2001" when it was re-released in the late '70's, I finally realized that the images I had thought belonged to "Apes" were from the "Dawn of Man" sequence where the two clans face off over the drinking hole.

I have no recollection of which theater I saw "2001" either of those times, but I don't think it was in Manhattan. I would have to do some research of newspaper ads to figure it all out. I lived in Elmhurst the first time I saw it and in Laurelton the second - so I presume the theaters were reasonably close to either neighborhood, and further reason that the prints were 35mm projected on flat screens. If so, that means I've never experienced the movie in a 70mm format, let along projected on a Cinerama screen. That is something I hope and pray one day to be able to put right. I might have also seen “2001” again as an adult in the ‘80’s, but I think it was at a Manhattan revival house – surely a 35mm print. I’d have to ask my ex-wife about that to confirm details.

Ed: "2001" played in Cinerama on Long Island in 1968. I think it was the Twin South Theater in Hicksville (?). Was that near by to where you lived at the time?

I was watching TCM sometime last week and much to my astonishment 2001 came on and I quickly turned it off.
They might as well show American Pie-Band Camp in 3 strip Cinerama which makes just about as much sense.

DavidM:
In response to your (BTW)question, I've been tending to the needs of the Mighty Wurlitzer for the Bishop firm for 15 years or so, however,does it matter if I were an elevator operator,or a popcorn seller? The point I'm making is, it doesn't matter what you or I think about the staging etc. Its all just a happy memory. I know people at the Hall from the top execs to us regular folk. I hear from my usher friends that a good many people have commented favorably about the screen. Some have said they will tell friends its great. We can whine over the passing of certain ideas, however, doesn't every generation think they are the cats meow? I'm 53 and think nothing was better than the 60's and 70's, my older friends tell me I missed the great shows in the 40's and 50's!! So, whos right? Lets enjoy the fact that the Music Hall is open and sparkling brighter then ever and I have confidence that we will see some of the "Old Time" beautiful scenes come back in one form or another.

I am the grandson of Rene Chambellan and I just wanted to thank Geoffrey for mentioning his work. His contributions to the entire Rockefeller Center project were significant and I am blessed with many photographs of the original models and sketches as well as our family having several plaster casts of the onamentation located above the entrance doors to Radio City. His contributions to Rockefeller Center, as with most architectural sculptors is usually not recognized, hence my delight in Geoffrey's comments. One suggestion for all of you, the next time you are in the theater look up! That marvelous ceiling is also Rene Chambellan's work! Be well all, and thanks again!

I will keep this one short. Back in 1972 I was doing some work for Bill Hanley Sound. I worked for him whenever her he had a sound gig in the NYC area. I got a call asking me to be at RCMH for what was the first show ever booked by an outside promotor. On of the headliners was Billy Breston McKendry Spring and some smaller acts. The Stage shows were still happening and the feature film at the time was Woody Allens Play it again Sam with Dianne Keaton. We came in to set up 3 days before the actual show. We were not allowed to do anything till after the last show ended. I spent 3 days crawling through the false ceiling running a few thousand feet of intercom wires from the stage to D Cove and all the way back to the P boths. RCMH had a load of followspots up there but they did not have the cutting power of a Super Trooper when it came to long throws to the staage. The concert was great the place was sold out and soon afterwards more concerts took place. Also after that first show RCMH made arrangments to get their own Clear Com headset intercom system to eliminate the time it took to run the cables.

Denpiano:

Thank you for your response. Don't take my question personally. It does not matter what job you do. I just started posting to this forum on a regular basis. I simply wanted to know job you perform at the Hall.

I mentioned in previous posts that I am very happy the Hall is still open. It could very well be a parking lot by now; I was there on April 12, 1978. I could not begin to tell you in a post about my happy memories of Radio City and what the place means to me. I'll be more than happy to tell you privately.

Am I whining? Maybe. However, I think it's time to begin looking at the Christmas Show with a more critical eye. I will address my comments to the appropriate people at the Hall.

DenPiano maybe you can tell me if there is a local 1 Stagehand named eddie Kramer still working there and since you say you maintain the great Lady do you or did you know a guy named Melvin who I knew in the 70's was doing the same thing. When I knew him he was doing the still existing at the time the one at the former Brooklyn Paramount, The NY Academy of Music before it was sold (the organ that is)RCMH and the Beacon. With the exception of the brooklyn Paramount I have had the pleasure of putting my hands on the keys of all the others. I only wish I knew how to play.

East Coast Rocker:
Yes, Eddie is still at the Hall, hes a very important part of the stage operation there. Melvin( Mel Robinson)was at several installations at theatres as you have noted. I never had the pleasure of meeting him, a friend of mine however worked with him at the Academy of music while he was in college. He told me Mel was a very good tech and he learned many things from him regarding organ construction.
DavidM:
You should write your concerns about the Christmas show, I believe your input would be welcome. Anyone here at Cinema Treasures in my view would have valid concerns and genuine understanding of how things could be improved. So, write,write,write!!!

I really enjoyed seeing the Christmas Spectacular for the first time in Charlotte, but would have preferred seeing it for the first time in NYC at 'the hall'! Though I do feel the live Nativity was a bit over the top it was a wonderful presentation of the true meaning of Christmas for all Christians. Yet I do wonder if many Jewish people stay for the final act?

To Denpiano. Thanks much. When I read you post I got a tingle down my spine. If you happene to run in to Eddie K tell him the Train Man is alive and well. I only wish I had a way to contact Mel Robinson but I know he was in his late 40's when I knew him back in the mid 70's so that would put him at about his late 70's if he is still alive and kicking. He was a funny guy and he did know his stuff.Who is your friend? If Worked with Melvin I may have met him. I have to tell you I was very sad when I had to dismantel the Academy's Mighty Wurlitzer. I believe it was sold to someone in San Diego Caa.


To Patsy. Hows the Egg Nogg? :)

To Denpiano. Thanks much. When I read you post I got a tingle down my spine. If you happene to run in to Eddie K tell him the Train Man is alive and well. I only wish I had a way to contact Mel Robinson but I know he was in his late 40's when I knew him back in the mid 70's so that would put him at about his late 70's if he is still alive and kicking. He was a funny guy and he did know his stuff.Who is your friend? If Worked with Melvin I may have met him. I have to tell you I was very sad when I had to dismantel the Academy's Mighty Wurlitzer. I believe it was sold to someone in San Diego Caa.


To Patsy. Hows the Egg Nogg? :)

To Denpiano. Thanks much. When I read you post I got a tingle down my spine. If you happene to run in to Eddie K tell him the Train Man is alive and well. I only wish I had a way to contact Mel Robinson but I know he was in his late 40's when I knew him back in the mid 70's so that would put him at about his late 70's if he is still alive and kicking. He was a funny guy and he did know his stuff.Who is your friend? If Worked with Melvin I may have met him. I have to tell you I was very sad when I had to dismantel the Academy's Mighty Wurlitzer. I believe it was sold to someone in San Diego Ca.


To Patsy. Hows the Egg Nogg? :)

Rocker: Am abit confused by your "Hows the Egg Nogg?" comment?

Patsy... I've been to the Christmas show on several occasions Jewish friends (including my ex-wife and our children who are all Jewish) over the years and - while the Nativity doesn't have the same resonance with them as it would with a Christian of faith - they were able to appreciate the show purely for its entertainment value. Going in to the show with their eyes wide open (it is, after all, called the "Radio City Christmas Show") they were not offended by the proceedings and happily stayed till the end, judging the spectacle purely on its artistic merits. The Nativity finale does not push the same hot buttons that, say, Mel Gibson's film "The Passion" did (whether or not you agree with the criticism heaped upon that movie).

I should say that the same goes for me, since I am not what you would call a religious fellow. And, no, Bill... neither Elmhurst nor Laurelton are close enough to Hicksville that I would have seen "2001" at the Twin South Theater. Thanks for that suggestion, however.

Ed: Thank you for your personal commentary as I was just curious as we have dear Jewish friends, but I don't believe they have ever been in NYC during the holiday season to see RCMH and the show.

Patsy somewhere in here or another forum you had made a typo and said it was the egg nogg that made you do it.

Rccker: I guess I do recall making that remark sometime in my CT past and it was probably over multiple exact posts as sometimes happens. I really enjoy reading all of the many RCMH posts as it has a rich history in the Big Apple.

Hi Patsy I notice that multiple posts of the same message occurs. That should be fixed as well as way for us to get e-mail that did reply to our posts and not everyones

I agree as I have my personal email addressed on my profile page and wish others would do the same as there have been times when I would like to contact a particular CT member about additional theatre information or related topic.

I agree as I have my personal email addressed on my profile page and wish others would do the same as there have been times when I would like to contact a particular CT member about additional theatre information or related topic.

Multiple posts, I find, usually occur when you click the "Submit" button more than once. If it seems like the Submit request is taking a long time, you should still refrain from clicking the button again. Even when the site times out on me during the Submit process, often when I go back in, I find that my comment has been posted after all.

Ed: You have shed important light on the multiple posts situation as I agree. Thanks.

Quoting Denpiano's: I'm 53 and think nothing was better than the 60's and 70's.

I remember my high school senior class trip to RCMH in May 1969. The movie playing IIRC was Winning. It was about NASCAR racing ... I think Paul Newman was in it.

The stage show featured a "mock" NASA rocket launch from the Great Stage since the first moon walk was planed for July that year. It was nothing short of spectacular. The "smoke and steam" coming from the "rocket engines" was provided by C02 fire extinguishers as I found out almost ten years later on one my my "insiders" tours with the one and only Ray Bohr. I saw these used fire extinguishers up above the curved ceiling on the "roof" of one of the prompt side organ chambers. Ray said they never threw anything out at the Hall. Even the original WurliTzer console pedalboards that were replaced were up there. But, I've run off track here.

Getting back to the show, I was seated in the front orchestra and during the organ interlude, I got up and walked over to the prompt side console and discovered Ray at the console, much to my delight. A lady and her son were there and we got into a conversation about the Mighty WurliTzer. She told me that their family had an electronic organ just like the one in front of us. I knew that Ray could hear her. I politely told her that she was not listening to an electronic organ by no means but to the largest original theater pipe organ built to date.

Denpiano, I only have two years on you, and the memories of the 60's and 70's shows are great aren't they? I can only well remember standing in line for hours up 50th street, around Rockefeller Plaza, almost to 51st Street, waiting to get in to see an Easter or a Christmas show and MOVIE. And that's after traveling from train for three hours to New York City.

It was worth making this year's Christmas Spectacular as usual. My wife and I liked the new digital screen. Since my 1970's-type private visits, augmented with a too-short one in 2000, are gone, I consider my annual pilgrimage to RCMH my annual "fix." My Church where I am organist installed a new church organ (digital) last month and I can get a lot of WurliTzer sounds out of it ... much to the pleasure of the congregation.

The late Ray Bohr's "signature" tune was The Song is Ended, But the Melody Lingers On. It's so appropriate to what we all talk about here as were share our individual thoughts and recollections of this fabulous place.

IMHO.

Organized: First of all, I love your screen name and I truly loved your commentary on the RCHH Wurlitzer. I've never been to RCMH, but I have seen and heard the Mighty Mo at the Fox in Atlanta played by Larry Embury on December 26th of 2005 when the Fox celebrated its 75th anniversary!

Since disability has meant the use of a wheelchair 24/7, my best memory of that Mighty Wurlitzer is as close as my phonograph with one of the discs from my 2-LP disc recording of RCMH Christmas music on it.

Here’s a Program from May, 1956:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-swan1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-swan2.jpg

Who would ever believe that two fourteen-year-old boys would sneak off to RCMH to see a fairy-tale story of the real-life just-married Grace Kelly doomed to a royal marriage when Louis Jourdan seemed a prole option? Jordan was in training for “Gigi.” Alec Guinness was coming down from his sublime “Ladykillers” (twenty years later I had to explain to my kids why I really wanted to see “Star Wars” for the umpteenth time). And nobody today could imagine what a hold Princess Grace had on our celebrity fantasies. That’s why my friend and I subwayed in to W 50 Street to see “The Swan.”

The stage show was arguably as good as or better than the movie (though the movie I thought was very good). The “Minstrel Show” theme carried through from the drum-beat ballet led by the acrobatic John Charivel to the latter’s appearance with his own acrobatic troupe, Les Charivels, and a solo juggling act by the Great Alcetty, to a spectacular river-boat finale with the Rockettes. A classic RCMH show, whose movie was timed to meet the headlines and whose stage show was wonderfully buoyant.

I only had the oportunity to see 2 movies at Radio City in my youth. One was Disney's "Follow me Boys" in the 70's which was paired with what I believe was a 30 minute stage show with the Rockettes. The second was a special engagement of Fantasia in the late 70's. I remember being so taken with this theater that when I heard they were considering tearing it down, I made a commitment to myself to lay before the bulldozers. Luckily, it never came to that, but I was unaware of how many other glorious theaters were lost because no one stood up. The sad reality is that there were so many wondrous theaters in the past that there is no economical way they could have been preserved into today's world. The truly sad thing is that so few are still left. This web site has made that painfully clear. Thanks Cinema Treasures for doing such a great public service.

Thank you, Patsy, for your nice comments. I've been an organist for nearly 4 decades. I visited the Fabulous Fox in 1991 on a tour, but never got to hear the Mighty Mo (Moller). I would love to hear Larry Embury at the console. The Fox organ, I understand, is in better condition than when M.P. Moller installed it. Sadly, the company who built it went out of business in 1992. Moller built over 11,000 pipe organ in their 117 year history.

Luis, I helped circulate petitions to save the Hall in 1978. I was there the Monday after the annoucement was made in January 1978 that the RCMH was going to close and be torn down. A sad day, indeed. It was through the hard work of the Rockettes and others (The Show Peoples' Committee to Save the Music Hall) that saved this magnificent place.

Hey Organized, please accept my heartfelt thanks for standing up way back when to save Radio City. I never got to see the Roxy or the old Penn Station and I always get a knot in my stomach that we lost 2 of the most incredible structures ever built before I had a chance to at least see them. I try to console myself with the knowledge that the loss of Penn Station in particular, enabled us to save Grand Central and Radio City, but it still hurts! Thanks again, Luis

As a man who wored 10 years at the Hall from 11/70 until 3/81, and being a member of the show people commitee to save the Hall, I want to thank you all for showing much love to a place that if you look at my heart you will find the Music Hall logo on it. Thank You all very much. Because of you all the Hall Lives!!

Astrocks... then you must remember me! I was one of the great many hordes of dirty, hairy Dead Heads that descended upon the Hall for a series of 10 concerts the Grateful Dead played there in October of 1980! I'm joking, naturally. But I was there for 5 of those shows, although I was neither dirty nor hairy - nor did I travel in a horde. As this run (along with a matching set of shows at San Francisco’s Warfield Theater) was an unofficial celebration of the band's 15 year anniversary, the final show on Halloween was simulcast, I believe, for closed circuit broadcast to other theaters. Either that or it was broadcast live on cable TV. Not too long after the concert, I remember a replay on the old Wometco Home Theater pay-service - remember WHT? You needed a special UHF antenna with a decoder box and tuned into channel 68 in NY to receive the transmission (this was mostly for the outer boroughs, which did not have cable TV like Manhattan did).

Anyway... I recall that many in the crowd were disrespectful of the old gal, but I always thought of her as a Queen and was sure to leave nothing but the proverbial tracks when I left the theater. I was just thrilled that the theater I cherished from childhood had been saved from demolition and that - just a cherry on top of this delicious cake - my favorite band was going to settle in under those magnificent proscenium arches for a nice long run of shows. What was your job there, astrocks?

HI EDsolero. At that time Disney under Bob Jane was running the hall, so i was moved from the costume dept where i was the office assistant, to the page program, i became the lead trainer, for the first class of what was being called pages.One very funny moment was when a group of Managers for the hall were standing in the lobby when a large number of deadheads ( were you one) had them in the middle of a circle and they were dancing around them. We were on the first mezz looking down laughing because the managers looked like they were under attack, we though we were have to call the paramedics to give them CPR. Also I think it was the first night a deadhead jumped off the first mezz into the orchestra to show his devotion to Jerry and the Dead.

EdSolero WHT huh? If I am not mistaken WHT was Wometco Home Theatre.A friend of mine use to have it and had an antenna on the roof with the converter box.

Disney and RCMH? Wow thats a new one on me.

I also had wht it was the only way i could get more than a handful of hockey games, that they would show on free t.v. How many of the organ fans remember Jack Ward

Astrocks... I was not one of those people dancing in a circle, I can assure you. I was never one of the twirlers, as they were known. I do a fair amount of boogie-ing at a good concert, but I mostly confine it to the space I occupy standing in front of my seat. I was not there for the show where the dude leapt or fell from the mezzanine, but I remember folks buzzing about it on the street and in the lobby when I got there for MY first show of that run.

As for WHT, if you didn't have the Wometco converter, you could still tune into channel 68 - since it was a regular UHF station - but you would see a scrambled picture and the audio was some laid back guy who basically played music and would talk about how great a WHT subscription would be between tunes. I remember I would tune in just to check this guy out. He played decent music and would talk about the movies playing that month on the service - all in a very warm and charming manner. He probably had an audience that numbered in the dozens at best, but he did his thing as if he really wanted to entertain the people who happened upon the channel. I also remember that the station broadcast regular unscrambled TV during the day and would scramble only at night - around 7 or 8pm. It was an independent channel out of Newak - or somewhere in north Jersey. One of the regular programs was the comedy show of "Uncle Floyd" Vivino. When subscriptions starting reaching further east on Long Island, I remember they had to begin a duplicate broadcast on another UHF channel - 72 perhaps?

Ah well... I digress. I have a habit of doing that. I now return you to your regular programming.

I loved Uncle Floyd, Who can ever foget loony skip rooney, and thanks for the wht info i forgot most of it

Luis,

I never saw the Roxy, either, but I remember Penn Station as a kid. I get more than a knot in the stomach when I travel to NYC and have to use that poor excuse for a train station ... the present Penn Station. Yuck!

The thanks for saving the Hall most properly goes to folks from the Showpeoples' Committee and people like Denpiano. His employer (and he) probably know more about the Hall than space here on this forum would permit. If it weren't like Denpiano and his colleagues, the Mighty WurliTzer would probably have been sold years ago or worse, hauled off to a landfill. I well remember when I visited there in January 1978 admidst the uproar of the closing of Radio City, a collector from the West Coast had already made inquiries about buying the instrument.

Ed: I too used to watch the scrambled WHT picture with the DJ guy. I remember once watching the entire scrambled version of "The Spy Who Loved Me". Thanks for the reminder!

Here’s a Program from April, 1956:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-serenade1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/rcmh-serenade2.jpg

Mario Lanza’s “Serenade” might rank among RCMH’s worst holiday film selections, but it points to the tremendous purchase that “the singing Clark Gable” held on the American public. It certainly drew a trio of teenagers to W. 50 Street, largely to flaunt their cruel boyish talents for mocking grand opera. As our elders threatened to call upon ushers to eject us, we simply kept changing seats. At one time or another that day, we had occupied just about every section in the orchestra and third balcony.

During the stage show, we greeted “The Glory of Easter” with at least some pretense of decorum, but the act that seized our sincere and undivided attention was Larry Griswold’s gymnastic turn. One of the inventors of the trampoline, Griswold impersonated a rubber-limbed drunk who climbed atop a high-diving-board and swing precariously from its edges, only to plunge into and bounce back from a spring-netted “swimming pool.” The shtick, widely performed on t.v. variety shows at the time, invariably brought the house down, and it thrilled us to see the real thing live On The Great Stage.

Less could be said for the musical finale that featured the pop song “No, Not Much.” The previous summer—the summer of ‘55—Bill Haley seared our imaginations with “Rock Around the Clock,” and after that we could no longer tolerate any tunes from earlier decades. RCMH did not allow R&R to degrade its sound system until much later that Spring (see above, 5 Jan.). Meanwhile, its management had to have conceded that Lanza was washed up and that hooligans like me portended the future of ticket sales. At least in those days, the Showplace of the Nation knew how to adapt.

“Serenade” and the Easter show drew such a diverse clientele only a few weeks short of fifty years ago. As I look through my collected programs, I’m surprised to find that I have none from the mighty year that preceded it. In 1955 I had turned thirteen and had fallen in with a bad crowd. For a while, I feigned great indifference to the Rockettes and preferred to hang out with my friends in barrooms and back alleys, or at least at Loew’s Alpine where we smoked Kool cigarettes and watched Martin and Lewis movies. Fathers warned one other, “Lock up yer daughters; Box Office Billy’s a hormone-raging teenager now.” By the time I finally snapped out of that phase, I had lost a great deal. But I still have a clutch of programs from 1954 and earlier, and I’ll share them eventually on this site. Under the crunch of upcoming work, I’ll be running for the next couple of months with no access to a scanner. Till that’s over, this seems a good time to pause.

BOB,
Was Serenade a terrible movie or was it just unsuitable for the Easter show? In the program photo Lanza's face looks very puffy despite the fact that he might have been in his mid 30's.
The Music Hall seems to have had at this point a run of bad Easter films starting with Rose Marie. I assume Green Mansions was the nadir of the 50's holiday shows Christmas and Easter(July 4th, Thanksgiving...)

By the way the nadir of the 60's holiday films was A Boy Named Charlie Brown or was it The Impossible Years(or That Darn Cat or Father Goose or Moon Pilot or The Singing Nun or ...)

Vincent-- Perhaps "Serenade" had a whiff of both terrible and unsuitable about it. David Thompson, a great fan of the director Anthony Mann, thought it "intolerable," even if Mann's wife Sarita Montiel was a co-star. The plot had its lurid moments and seemed inappropriate for family fare, but was wholly ripe for wisecracks from teenage boys. Yes, the films you mention were variously off-key, too; but other hoilday films included "Kim," "Royal Wedding," "Singin' in the Rain," "Funny Face," "Auntie Mame," "The Sundowners," "Charade" (even if some complained), and "How To Succeed in Business," no mean bundles of celluloid.

I had the pleasure of attending the New York Theatre Organ Society's annual Organ Concert on February 4. What a joy is was to be in the Music Hall in such an informal setting. The music was as spectacular as anything I've ever seen on stage. Congratulations to the NYTOS and to the organists. I hope the Music Hall management will get involved and create more programs like this.

This 1940 postcard seems to have been "colorized" from a B&W photo:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/mhpc.jpg

I found my souvenir booklets from the last time I saw a movie presentation at RCMH, back in 1978. The film was "Crossed Swords" and it was advertised as the Hall's "final attraction", although regular movie and stage show programming remained for another year or so after this engagement. Here's the cover to the "Crossed Swords" souvenir program (with a red "Final Attraction" sticker)as well as a number of images from the booklet I purchased about the Hall itself:

Crossed Swords - \"Final Attraction\"
RCMH Souvenir Cover
Ushers and managers
Glory of Easter
Nativity
Kol Nidre
Rockettes rehearsal
Rehearsal page detail
Orchestra
Orchestra detail 1
Orchestra detail 2
Grand Organ - Ray Bohr
Movies at the Hall
Movies at the Hall cont'd
Lucille Ball
Special Events
Executives
Set design
The Great Stage
Great Stage diagram
REndres!!!
Maintenance
The queue!

I know a few RCMH veterans post here, so I hope this stirs a few memories and sparks more conversation on this page.