Roxy Theatre

I attended the premier of Roger & Hammersteins Oklahoma in 1955 at the Roxy, my father installed the sound systems, this was the first Todd-AO in NYC I believe. Rogers & Hammerstein were in attendance as well as the recording engineer Fred Heinz. Roxy had 2 projection rooms, each with 3 Todd-AO, norelco AAII projectors.

Hey George, I think you mean "Carousel," not "Oklahoma." "Carousel" opened at the Roxy in 1955 in Cinemascope 55. "Oklahoma" in Todd A0 opened on reserved seats at the Rivoli.

I'm writing a book on costume designers of Music Hall. I'm looking for some data about Marco Montedoro who after having designed for Moulin Rouge and Folies Bergere in Paris, from 1932 started to work for Roxy Theatre N. Y. Can you or somebody help me in finding as many data as possible on his activity in N.Y.? I will appreciate very much. Thanks in advance for your courtesy. Best regards. A. Luerti

I remember a picture in Live magazine of Gloria Swanson in an evening gown standing in the rubble of the Roxy.

When the Roxy opened a cartoon in the New Yorker had a little boy asking his mother as he was being led through its massive, glorious lobby "Does God live here?" I have a six by seven foot photograph of the famous Gloria Swanson hanging in the my den

Lucy is quite right, it was "Carousel", which was projected in Cinemascope 55, that premiered at the Roxy.Special 55mm projectors were installed as well as a new sound system. Very few theatres installed Cinemascope 55, presenting the films in a reduced 35mm print. The 55mm process was only used twice after that and then the process disappeared. In 1953 The Roxy was the first theatre to install Cinemascope with the showing of "The Robe".

Can anyone tell me where I can find photos of this theatre?

The THEATRE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA (www.HistoricTheatres.org) has in its ARCHIVE (see the link by that name on their sidebar) many photos and much other information from the late Ben M. Hall's collection. The ROXY was also notable for many interior innovations not mentioned in Mr. Gabel's fine capsule description/history, such as the Carrillon or cathedral chimes, the triple stage elevators topped with a turntable allowing great stage dynamics, a full cyclorama, the 'Silouhette Light,' and much else to its claim to fame including a small Hospital room and nursery room for the kiddies in addition to a huge basement space of floors devoted to producing, as well as the Rehearsal Hall and Music Library rooms. It may not have been the most lavish (some say the San Francisco FOX took that honor) nor even as famous as the still-open CHINESE THEATRE in Los Angeles, but its record of innovation is secure and a found memory to those old enough to have seen it in life. Those young enough in spirit will see it recreated in their imaginations, from the springboards provided in the photos and materials at the THEATRE HISTORICAL SOCIETY in Elmhurst, Illinois, about 15 miles west of Chicago. Their MARQUEE magazine has had several articles pertaining to the ROXY.

I had the privilege of Ice Skating
in some of the shows at the Roxy Theatre. I was born and raised in
Brooklyn, New York and at 17 I became a
professional Ice Skater. I still have
some pictures a friend of mine took during one of the shows I performed in,
at the Roxy. It holds so many memories
and till this day it seems like yesterday. I skated at the theatre in
1955-1956. The re-opening of the ice
show was coupled with the movie opening
of The Rains of Ranchipore with Lana
Turner.( I think I spelled it right),if
not forgive me.

According to Marty Hart on his amazing web site he claims that though both King and I and Carousel were filmed in Cinemascope 55 they were never shown that way not even in their first run engagements and no known prints are said to survive in that original process.

Vincent, I am Afraid you are wrong and more so is Marty.
I own copies of both these prints, in original 55 format. I can confirm that they were indeed released in scope 55. The prints I have are X West End London.
Edd

Edd:
Marty Hart, curator of the Wide Screen Museum website, is probably the most knowledgable man in the world about the early wide-screen processes, and if he says "Carousel" and "The King and I" were never released in the 55mm format, he knows of what he speaks. (He also knows punctuation--"afraid" as used in the context of your post should not be capitalized.

I have original ads from CAROUSEL and KING AND I and both emphatically state the new process CINEMASCOPE 55. I am sure both had their initial engagements in Miami in this process. Also, FOX released both films in this process on their laserdisc releases. I can't say for sure about DVD releases. As a child I saw GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES at the ROXY, one of the last non-wide screen films to play the theatre.

Marty clearly states that they were advertised in the process(you can also see it in pictures of the Roxy marquee) but that the actual presentaton was anamorphic 35mm. So you can film it in the process and say so but not present it as such(would most people really know?) I guess at this point all we can do is go back in time and go into the Roxy projection booth and see just what type of film those reels contain.

Gentlmen Prefer Blonds at the Roxy. That must have been something.

Yes Vincent, seeing BLONDES at the Roxy was pretty dazzling for a kid. Even though it was so long ago when my Mom took me and my sister to see the film, I still have vivid memories. (In fact we had our choice of seeing THE BAND WAGON at the Radio City Music Hall or BLONDES at the ROXY). I remember the beautiful technicored print and having Russell & Monroe step out from behind those red sequined curtains before and after the credits was a sight! Some things always stay with you.

I would love to see color pictures of the interior of the Roxy. I have only seen black and white. Its a shame that the Roxy and the San Francisco Fox are no longer with us what were they thinking. Today they would make great concert halls presented by clearchannel.Brucec.

I went to the Roxy many times in the 1950's when I was young. I still have the original Roxy programs of DAMN YANKEES & THE SEVENTH VOYAGE OF SINBAD, which played there a short time before it closed. The 3 Kimball console organ was no longer used. The instrument had a unique sound system that came from the orchestra pit.

The Roxy theatre was originally intended to be the flagship theatre of the William Fox theatre chain in New York, but Fox did not have enough financial support to see it through. The only other theatre built that was suppose to be a part of this chain was The Beacon theatre, a smaller version of the Roxy, located on 74th Street and Broadway in Manhattan. It is still used for concerts & shows.

Like many others, I am astonished to know that THE BEACON is a smaller version of THE ROXY.
I have never heard of that anywhere I have looked previously. Can someone please elaborate on the above comment and info.....how alike are they? etc for overseas reades of this site, that information would be a real zinger....thanks......PAUL BRENNAN Sydney Australia

By smaller version of the Roxy, I meant that the Beacon Theatre was
built as a movie palace. The interior is different but incorporated some of the features of the Roxy.

Thanks for that clarification...for a minute or two there I was very excited......I have also come to realise that THE STATE THEATRE SYDNEY has many ROXY features as well, particuarly the foyer rotunda (5 floors high, green pillars, dome and massive chandelier) and the 3 levels of seats and the rear aisle pillars, and interior designs etc. The State auditorium is not the cathedral look of the Roxy though, it is more like a huge beehive with French renaissance interior and gothic foyers. The art galleries and marlbe lights/statues all intact. It was thoroughly repainted and cleaned in 1982 and remains to this day much loved by everyone who set foot within and the premiere film location and concert venue in gorgeous Sydney. The State is in its 75the glorious year in 2004 and is still the absolute jewel inSydney's luxury theatre crown. There is a website and I guess you can all find it via google on the internet.
Australia's cinemas of the 20s really are as spectacular as those of the USA and we are lucky that TV did not arrive until 1957 which meant our luxury movie palaces lasted well into the 70s and 80s when alot were able to be retained. Sure we lost quite a few but just as many are still with us. Australia only has 19 million people in a land mass bigger than the USA so we have been blessed again. Look up REGENT MELBOURNE, ASTOR ST KILDA, CAPITOL SYDNEY as well.

Well I did a litle more research on the Cinemascope 55 question.
According to the info I received from an old local 306 projectionist, Carousel opened in February 1956 at the Roxy and was indead shown in a reduction 35mm print. That is not to say that Edd is incorrect because there were a few experimental 55mm prints made and in fact Fox did want to show the film in 55 but it never materialized at least not to his knowledge and certainly not in The Roxy. The advantage to shooting the film in 55mm and then reducing to 35mm for projection was improved picure quality and lower grain.
The idea was only used one other time for "The King And I" which was also shown at The Roxy in 35mm. As for Kitty's comment about the advertising, I don't believe the ad actually said "shown in"
Cinemascope 55. It was the same for VistaVision which was shown all over during the late 50s, the ads read VistaVision but were shown in regular 35mm. The only theatres in New York to install VistaVision projectors were Radio City "White Christmas" and The Paramount "Were No Angels"

With this cinemascope 55 business, I have always taken it to mean THE FILMING PROCESS not the exhibition process: like Camera 65 for Ben hur or Dimension 150 for Patton. In Sydney we also saw ads for CAROUSEL and THE KING AND I and even on the theatre front proclaiming 'the wonder of ' CINEMASCOPE 55 etc. but it never said the film was shown in it. As with vistavision, all the prints were just in 1.85:1 so any cinema could show the shape of Vistavision, so yes the picture was a Vistavision picture (as it said on the opening logo and the poster and the ad and the screen was a rectangle not as wide as cinemascope) ....so it was Vistavison. It is really only Cinerama that advertised "cannot be seen in any other theatre" otherwise all these processes would have said that. BEN HUR opened in Sydney in 1960 in 35mm but as the ad said: CAMERA 65 brings you....etc. CAROUSEL was a CINEMASCOPE 55 presentation YES, (on a 35mm print).
..just as it probably was all over the planet.

I agree with all that Paulb wrote regarding all the widescrens, however it does not apply to VistaVision which was projected in the VistaVision format in New York at Radio City Music Hall and The Paramount. VistaVision projectors were built to run the print thru the gate horizontally, which is how the film was shot. To my knowledge only a few of these projectors were made and installed in theatres, I believe Paramount Pictures had a pair in their screening room in L.A.

Perhaps in 2004, we need to make the distinction with what was actually "possible":....................as WE all know, there was first run and sub run...........and in 'those days' , first run was supported by what was what the studio and purists understood the format really meant: THE REAL THING .
Sub runs and country got the 35mm run-off and sometines, as described above, interstate and overseas glamor first runs got the 35mm palm-off. Now we all know that, don't we. Paul B.

In "those days" before saturation release, the major distributors of Hollywood product made a maximum of 400 prints to cover the entire USA, which were used and re-used until they wore out. Needless to say, the first-run theatres always had the best prints unless they were flawed to start with.

The Warner's Beverly Hills Theatre was equipped with a pair of Century VistaVision projectors and they also had a pair of Simplex XL machines too. When they pulled the VistaVision projectors out they installed a pair of Norelco DP-70's, this was a major Road Show Theatre.

I remember reading a story once that studios would delay a release months just to get the Music Hall or the Roxy. This was also true in the 60's and 70's for Cinema 1 and 2 when they were the premiere art houses in the whole country. Sadly it seems there are no theatres that have that clout anymore.

For most of its lifetime, the Roxy was an exclusive showcase for 20th Century-Fox releases, even after the movie studio was "divorced" from owning theatres. So other distributing companies weren't covetous of getting bookings at the Roxy, which also lost its lustre as a major tourist attraction after the opening of Radio City Music Hall.

The Roxy Theatre was operated by the Roxy Theatre, Inc. company which was controlled and owned by National Theatre, Inc. of Los Angeles, California. National Theatres operated select locations under special companies or corperations. Even after the Paramount decree in 1946. Other National Theatre holdings were the Fox West Coast Theatres Corp., Fox Midwest Theatres, Inc., Fox Inter-Mountain Theatres, Inc., Fox Wisconsin Theatres, Inc., Evergreen State Amusement Corp.. National Theatres controls Fox Michigan Corp., which operates the Fox Detroit, Roxy Theatre, Inc. operating the Roxy, in New York and Fox Philadelphia Building , Inc. operating the Fox Phildelphia. National Theatre would later be known as National General Theatres in 60's and later be sold to Ted Mann in the early 70's, to become Mann Theatres of California and later to Paramount and Warner Studios to become CineAmerica Theatres.

The original stret address of the Roxy Theatre was 153 W. 50th. Street.

National Theatres was, in effect, the theatre division of 20th Century-Fox. The anti-trust decree against Paramount and others became effective in 1949, not 1946, though most companies were slow to comply and it wasn't until around 1954-55 that full "divorcement" had taken place. I think that Loew's, Inc., parent company of Loew's Theatres and MGM Studios, was the last to fulfill its obligations.

The Roxy's final downfall began in April, 1958, with the premiere of Louis de Rochemont's feature documentary, "Windjammer," which was filmed in the new wide-screen process of Cinemiracle and required that the Roxy build a new projection booth and make structural changes to the stage for a new screen. The Roxy's seating capacity was drastically reduced to 2,405 by closing off the balcony and limiting ticket sales to the orchestra and first mezzanine. Showings were on a two-a-day, reserved seat policy, but "Windjammer" failed to excite either critics or public. Due to contractual obligations, the Roxy kept "Windjammer" through the summer, hoping for a touristic invasion that never took place, and then reverted to its former policy on September 17th with Warner Brothers' "Damn Yankees" and a stage show. With the Roxy's seating capacity restored to nearly 6,000, these combo programs continued into early 1960. The final Christmas show in December 1959 was Paramount's "L'il Abner," with comedian Georgie Kaye and juggler Francis Brunn heading the stage portion. What turned out to be the final combo show opened on January 5, 1960, and ran for four weeks: MGM's "The Gazebo" plus Dick Rowan and the Bizzaro Brothers topping the stage half. Then the Roxy probably hit its all-time low with a double-feature of reissued Marlon Brando "classics" for a bargain admission of $1.50 at all times. Following that came one final first-run movie, the British import "The Wind Cannot Read," which closed the Roxy forever on March 29th, 1960. Demolition started in August and took 3.5 months.

Warren reminded me of that awfull destruction of the Roxy made in 1958, the 100-foot screen installed for Cinemiracle swallowed up the Roxy's vast proscenium arch, the ornamental boxes and staircases, and then hardly anyone came to see this silly movie

I've heard it was pretty good. Is there anyone out there who saw Windjammer and liked it?

Well, actually, WINDJAMMER played here in Sydney at the 1150 seat spanish style PLAZA CINERAMA in about 1961 and ran for 6 months. I did see it and have fond memories probably becuase it was a big event at the time. The screen here was 100ft wide; the cinerama films all played long runs here and WINDJAMMER was helped enormously by the visit of the Chilean windjammer ship The Esmerelda which docked in Sydney Harbour at the time. The Plaza on the inside looked like the pic of the exterior of the Roxy above, it was opened in 1933 and closed during the colour TV boom of 1977. It was a breathtaking luxury house and home of long runs BUT the mid 70s were its worst years and it was all over with a lame screening of Mr Billion. Today it is a Macdonalds. An insult to what should still be one of Sydney's 4 genuine pic palaces. Two survived The State and the Capitol, and two were lost: the Plaza and the Regent.

The man whose name appears on most of the Cinemiracle patents was Russell H. McCullough. He was the director of research and development for National Theatres. National Theatres developed marketed and released the Cinemiracle process. They would later sell the patents to the Cinerama Corp. They opened "Windjammer" in their two high-profile showcase houses the Chinese Theatre in Hollywood and The Roxy in New York City. Each of the theatres closed for about a month to install the new projection booths and the new screens. The Cinemiracle screen was made of conventional seamless material and was substantially less curved than that of Cinerama, being about 120 degrees instead of 146. The benefit of the 120 degree screen is that cross reflections are not as severe, thus the louvre type screen used in Cinerama wasn't necessary. Century Projector Corp. built the Cinemiracle projectors and have a mechanism considerably altered from the standard 35mm machine to provide the drive for movement of film at Cinemiracle's 146.25 feet per minute and to handle 8000-foot film reels. To bring Cinemiracle to the public National Theatres spent upwards of a half-million dollars to prepare the Roxy and the Chinese theatres. At the Chinese Theatre, National Theatres put in new seating and recarpeted as well as installing the equipment.
"Windjammer" would play about 23 weeks at the Roxy from 4/9/1958 to 9/17/1958. The Chinese Theatre's engagement was 4/8/1958 to 12/17/1958 for a total of 36 weeks.

What was the name of the organ player who played beforw the film

On the DVD of WEST SIDE STORY after the music overture - when the overhead camera shots begin -DVD chapter 2, 37 seconds in- freeze the dvd- in the lower right hand corner- they had just demolished
the roof and walls of the ROXY but you can see the orchestra seating grid built at that 45 degree angle between 50th and 51st street. The MUSIC HALL roof can be seen in the left part of the letterboxed image.

The address for the Roxy was 153 West 50th Street.

Does anyone have insight, information, documentation, etc. on the whereabouts of the grand piano used for stage presentations at the Roxy. Any help would be most greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Bill B.

After so many decades, I doubt it. And during its lifetime, I'm sure that the Roxy went through a slew of grand pianos, which are not as durable as organs.

I'm pretty sure that the BEACON was supposed to be called The Roxy Midland or Midtown. Roxy actually apporved of the design and W. W. Ahlschlager wa the architech. The rotunda is a smaller version of the Roxy's and the BEACON, too, is uilt on an angle with a triangular stage. The theatre building extorior is very similar in design to the Roxy. I think it was around that time that Roxy got involved with Rock Center. From what I could find the Roxy played mostly FOX products along with Monogram and Republic.

Wow Monogram and Republic seem like low end product for the Roxy

To the best of my knowledge and memory, the Roxy NEVER played Monogram or Republic movies. I would like to know the titles if it did. During the first half of the Depression, when business was so bad that the Roxy had to change programs every week, it did run product from Universal, which was then considered a semi-major studio...The Roxy Midway was supposed to be the name for the theatre that eventually became the Beacon. There was also supposed to be a theatre called the Roxy Mansion on Lexington Avenue between 58th and 59th Streets, but it never got beyond the ground-breaking stage. That was the eventual site of Alexander's department store, which was replaced by the nearly completed Bloomberg Building.

Although at the end they did play a few double features I think I read.

The last movie shown at the Roxy (and sans stage show) was "The Wind Cannot Read," a 20th-Fox import starring Dirk Bogarde. Just prior to that, the Roxy ran a double-feature of two Marlon Brando reissues at the "bargain" admision of $1.50 at all times. I believe that was the only double-feature that ever played there. Perhaps if it had been successful, there would have been more...Don't ask me the titles of those Brando movies, because I can't remember. I'm tempted to say "On the Waterfront" and "The Wild One," but I could be wrong.

Postcards: http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/usa/usa_nyc_roxy.htm

As in my earlier post of Feb, 11th.
The Roxy Theatre was operated by the Roxy Theatre, Inc. company. Which was controlled & owned by National Theatres Inc. of Los Angeles. National Theatres was the parent company for Fox. So the Roxy was the show case house in New York for Fox product.

Here is a link to a page which shows the photograph mentioned earlier of Gloria Swanson standing in the ruins of the Roxy's Grand Rotunda:

http://www.atos.org/Pages/Story/renaissance.html

Here are photos from 1930 of the Roxy's proscenium arch and balconies.

Bit of useless trivia. Although the mighty Roxy is gone some 43 years already, about 100 seats live on in the lodge room of the Floral Park Masonic Temple in Nassau County, Long Island, NY. The end stancheons (spelling?) display the distinctive "R" initial associated with the Roxy. Legend has it that one of the Masons had a connection with the Roxy and obtained the seats for their lodge room when the theater was going to be demolished.

Incredible that "Cathedral of the Motion Picture" is gone such a long time already. My first encounter with the Roxy was around 1950 when my father took me to see Walt Disney's "Peter Pan" and an ice show on the stage. An experience not to be forgotten. Sitting in the balcony watching the ice light up in different colors from florescent tubes buried under the ice. A few years later seeing Sonja Heinie in person with her ice revue was another memorable experience.

The Roxy, in the mid 50's was also the best theater to see CinemaScope, especially in four channel magnetic sound. The screen had a slight curve and was quite large. Memorable films were "The Robe", "There's No Business Like Show Business", "The Rains of Ranchipur" and "The Egyptian". At times, the rear channel sound, used mostly for effects, seemed to come from the very top of the
theater.

In reading one of the prior comments made in February, I remembered going to the Roxy to see LIL' ABNER with my parents. I didn't realize that was the last Xmas show to play this theatre. The following year I did see THE LAST VOYAGE at the theatre. I wish I could remember more about what the inside of the theatre looked like. Those pictures posted bring back some memories. I guess I was a bit young and it has been a long, long time. I vaguely remember the outside.

The Roxy Theatre was the Best place to see CinemaScope in the city because, it was Fox's premiere showcase house for it. It was premiered for the industry there and the public. Just like Todd-AO was the premiere showcase at the Rivoli Theatre.

William, I worked for fox in the 50s on 50th St near 10th ave.
Many a morning was spent at the Roxy opening new Fox films. I remember the magnificent marguee which advertised CinemaScope in huge neon letters:
CINEMASCOPE THE MODERN MIRACLE YOU SEE WITHOUT GLASSES.
The reference of course, to the 3-D movies playing at the time which required poloroid glasses be worn. Movie goers were astonished at the size of the screen and the magnificent 4 track sound, the thunder and lightning sequence was especially impressive with lightning striking thru the surrounds all over the theatre. Although WB had played around with stereo a little less than a year earlier with some 3-D films at The Paramount such as "House Of Wax" and later with "Charge at feather River", it was "The Robe",
I think, that really impressed moviegowers with stereo sound. Agree?

I would have to throw in "This Is Cinerama," which had impressive stereo sound, and was released well before "The Robe." However, fewer people saw it because it was shown only at the much smaller Broadway Theatre as a two-a-day, reserved seat attraction.

You are right Warren,I forgot about Cinerama which was an 8 channel magnetic track interlocked with the three projectors, as opposed to 3-D which was an optical photographic track, I seem to recall the stage speakers were recorded on the left print and the surrounds on the right in a 3-D config. Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm writing a bio of someone. I know he saw a show at the Roxy in New York on March 17, 1931. Was wondering if there was any way to find out what he saw that night. I'm also looking for pictures that could be reproduced in the book.

Doug: if you are not in NYC, go to your local library and ask them to order in the microfilm of that date of any NYC newspaper such as the Times, and look at their movie listings. The listings for the ROXY will be there, plus the Theatre Historical Society of America has extensive data about the ROXY as well as a great many photos of it. Contact them at: www.HistoricTheatres.org

Vito
You're right about how stereo added to the impact of those early CinemaScope films. Yes, Cinerama arrived alittle earlier than CinemaScope. But the CinemaScope films were feature films with stories and plots. The Cinerama films were mainly travelogs to showcase the format, but they still made an impact too. As for the early 3D films from Warner, they used a double-system format just like Cinerama.

Yes Warren, Cinerama was best used for travelogs, feature films like "How the West Was Won" did not work for me, I found the two seams very distracting, and if the projectionist did not set the carbons properly and keep them in the proper relationship with the aperature and reflector, there would be an annoying diference in the color and brightness in the three panels. Later with
"Mad Mad world" and "2001" which was filmed in 70mm single strip Cinerama was much more enjoyable.

"Mad, Mad World" was filmed in Ultra-Panavision which was made for the deeply curved Cinerama screens of that era. While "2001" was filmed in Super Panavision, which had to be corrected in the lab for the Cinerama process and presentation.

Here are a few films that played the Roxy over the years from the New York Times movie adds.

Feb 1931 Dracula
Mar 1939 The Hounds of The Baskervilles
Feb 1940 Of Mice and Men
Mar 1940 My Little Chicadee
Oct 1950 All About Eve
Sep 1953 The Robe
Jun 1956 The King and I
Aug 1957 The Sun Also Rises

The Roxy was the flagship theatre of 20Th Century-Fox.brucec

I heard these lyrics to "You're the Top" as sung by its composer Cole Porter and thought of this marvelous site:

You're romance,
You're the Steps of Russia.
You're the pants
On a Roxy usher.

The late Ben M. Hall quotes these lyrics in his landmark book: "The Best Remaining Seats: The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" wherein he has many photos and much information about the ROXY. One thinks that Cole Porter was grasping for rhymes (or 'near' rhymes) for "Russia" in the previous line, but then their uniforms were indeed well tailored, and Mr. Porter's well known predeliction for young men may have had a part in the wording. I guess that it is a strange way for the ROXY to be 'immortalized', but one takes what one can get.

There is a a beautiful scale model of the Roxy Theatre's auditorium on permanent exhibition at the American Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, Queens, NY (telephone 718-784-0077 for visiting hours).

The lobby of the Roxy can be seen in Jules Dassin's "Naked City" from 1946. The Beacon Theater's lobby was finished before the unfinished theater was sold to Warner's. It is a 1/4 size version of the Roxy's grand foyer. The Beacon's layout is the same as the Roxy. The back wall of the stage is not paralel to the proscenium. The stage sort of looks like a lopsided triangle.
I have a program from the Roxy (as well as from THE Paramount) that I could post as soon as I figure out how to do it.

I believe that the only way you can post an image of the programmes is by using a virtual photo such as a 'jpeg' or 'gif' scan or digital photo, but you will notice that the ADD PHOTO feature is "off line" or not in operation at this time. You would have to contact the site owners to get any advice as to how to go about it now. Of course, one could simply copy the text of a programme and type it in here, but that would not give the flavor of the original document as I am sure that you wish to do. In any case, I am not sure that they will allow images in the comments section, but perhaps a link to your images that are elsewhere.

It is interesting to note that the Internet Movie Data Base (www.IMDB.com) also lists the 1952 movie "With A Song In My Heart" as being a filming location for the ROXY, though neither in this case nor that of the title "The Naked City" does it say 'what' is shown.

Jim-In terms of the Roxy being immortalized how can you not include Frank Loesser's wonderful opening for the song "Guys and Dolls" which begins "What's playing at the Roxy? I'll tell you what's playing at the Roxy..." where he quite ably rhymes Roxy with Biloxi?
And what's so funny is the fact that the mini summation sounds like the plot of a movie that might have played at the Roxy.

Also do people know that todays Broadway composer Steven Sondheim speaks with great nostalgia about seeing movies at the Roxy when he was young.
We can only envy him.

On the Radio City Music Hall page, look at SimonL's comments about the stage show with "Giant" at the Roxy--a twenty-minute quickie to complement the length of the three-and-a-half-hour movie. I recall the amazing show for "Giant"'s predecessor, "Bus Stop," in which the Roxy hauled out its entire repertoire of sets for constantly shifting scene changes while the Ice Blades and Roxyettes skated on and on. At one point, the cyclorama rose to reveal the rear stage wall, disclosing the theater's odd triangular ground plan-- a stunning revelation to me at the time.
Box Office Bill

There's also a great song by Rodgers & Hart entitled "At The Roxy Music Hall," which spoofs the stage shows and splendors of those two theatres. A recording of it by Dorothy Loudon can be heard on the first volume of "Ben Bagley's Rodgers & Hart Revisited," which is available on CD. The song was originally written for the 1938 Broadway musical, "I Married An Angel."

Simon L-- On the Radio City Music Hall page, you again bring up a terrific recall of the Roxy’s stage shows when you mention the NY Philharmonic’s appearance with “The Black Rose.” Another orchestra that filled the Roxy’s pit was Phil Spitalny’s all-woman philharmonic orchestra, appearing several times in the late 40’s and early 50’s. The Roxy offered some classical and modern ballet from time to time, but didn’t have a resident ballet company, right?
You also mention “Dancing Waters” at RCMH in January ’53 (yup, I saw it then too). I’d always thought that show was designed to out-rival the Roxy, which had remodelled its procenium and stage the previous December. At that time, Roxy introduced Ice Colorama, a full ice stage with blinking multi-colored flourescent lights embedded beneath its translucent surface. Its debut came with the Christmas show featuring the boom-ba-boom “Stars and Stripes Forever” with Clifton Webb, followed by the scarlet-and-black (what do you call a Technicolor film-noir?) of “Niagara” with Marilyn Monroe. To set down a gauntlet, RCMH brought on “Dancing Waters,” with the Minnelli-style Hollywood-noir, “Bad and the Beautiful.” The Roxy then responded with Disney’s “Peter Pan,” filling the house with thousands of kids and their parents.
I remember that the Ice Colorama stage show for the latter featured a clone of the Wizard-of-Oz narrative, concerning a Wicked Witch (performed by a male ice-skater) who hurtled across the stage at enormous speed, pursued by the good-guy Ice Blades and Roxyettes, with flashing flourescent lights in tempestuous neon hues, accompanied by off-stage thunder and a crashing orchestral score (it might have been “A Night on Bald Mountain,” no?). We stayed to see the stage show a second time, moving up to the vast balcony for a better view of the Colorama effects.

I have just met am 86 yr old woman at the local laundromat who says she was a dancer at the Roxy in 1931. After reading the comments and seeing a rendering of the interior, I'm going to have more questions to ask her when we return to vist and wash our clothes next week. She danced under the name Terry Carlton. She left the Roxy and moved to Berlin where she danced for one of the theaters there, which I'll find out about next week.

Viv

another link to the greatest theater ever:
http://www.gabesplayerpianos.org/html/Roxy.html

I thought the greatest theater ever was the Astor Plaza.

No Vincent, You were right first time - the Astor Plaza IS just a hole in the ground. The Roxy was and still is the Cathedral of the Motion Picture and demolition can't take that away from us!

Thanks for the laugh Vincent, to see the threads on the Astor Plaza closing you would think it was the greatest ever. Please, I can only guess all those people crying over the loss of the Astor Plaza never saw a real movie palace like the Roxy.I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sad for the loss of the Astor, it represented one of the last single screen theatres in NY, but there is, of course, no comparison to the closing of the Roxy.

Sad to say, at the time it happened, there was little in the way of "protest" over the demolition of the Roxy. In fact, I don't recall any efforts at all to save it. But in 1960, so many "palaces" were still with us that I guess that the loss of one seemed trivial.

Yes, it happened rather quickly with little or no fanfare. Of course the Fox Fanfare will forever ring in memory of the great roxy
I can still hear it as the great curtains parted.

Warren, when the Strand, the Criterion and the Rivoli all came down at about the same time there wasn't even a murmur and I was so sick I've hardly been to Times Square since. Paul Goldberg(?)the architecture critic of the NY Times called it exhilarating and I can't write what I wanted done to him.
There is in The Great Gatsby an afternoon when the characters decide to take their cars into the city and they talk about going to one of the air-conditioned theaters(unnamed) at around 50th street and it thrilled me to know at the time I read it that two of those theaters about which Fitzgerald wrote were still standing-the Strand and Rivoli. The Roxy hadn't been built yet.

Vincent, Fitzgerald might have also meant the Capitol, which opened in 1919, and was NYC's largest movie palace until the Roxy. Situated on Broadway between 50th & 51st Streets, the Capitol was closer to 50th Street than the Strand, which was between 47th and 48th Streets.

Vincent--
Another literary reference to the Roxy occurs in Thomas Merton's autobiographical Seven Storey Mountain, with a terrific description of a show at that theater ca. 1940.

I can only imagine how incredible the Roxy must have been. 44 years after it's closing my mother still talks about seeing movies there with my grandmother and the elaborate stage shows. Yes the Astor was a great modern day single screen, but think The Walker made it to the 90's and now a store sits inside and all the walls and ceiling are intact behind the plaster boards. It was no Roxy but it was damn beautiful. Thanks UA, another place you destroyed.

>>The Walker made it to the 90's and now a store sits inside...

Where this?

Tivia: The Roxy (Cathedral of the Motion Picture) was demolished in 1960 and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer(The Tiffany's of the major studios) was seperated from Loews Inc. the last major studio to comply with the government consent decree which forced the major studios to divest there theatres in the US. The greatest movie palace ever built was destroyed and Loew's M-G-M was spit up with the help of the government, only survived until 1969 until Kerkorain got his hands on it.I regret that I never was able to attend a movie and a stage show at the Roxy.brucec

I wonder how different things might have been had the goverment kept out of the movie biz. Would some of the palaces still be around? Would we have lost MGM and RKO?

The U.S. government started anti-trust actions against the major movie companies in the 1920s, but the accused put up a fierce battle and were able to delay it for many years, with help from World War Two. But even if the "majors" had not been split up, I doubt that the old system of exhibition-distribution would have survived the competition from home TV and other leisure-time activities. Any palaces that survived would have required being turned into multiplexes or switched to performing arts centers, churches, etcetera.

As Warren put it.
Any Palaces that survived would have required being turned into multiplexes, performing arts centers, churches....

But if you look at the size of some of these palaces like the Roxy or Capital. With 5000+ seats they would have to gut most of the theatre to make those extra screens. Around the same time frame the parent company National Theatres (Fox Theatres) decided to drop the Fox Theatre in San Francisco. Ok the Fox lasted two more years, but they dropped many of their large sized palaces during that time. Many of them dating back 30-40 years. If you look at theatres that were built in the early 60's, you will see what the theatre chains thought what was a modern movie theatre. Many of these theatres draped over their original auditoriums. In 1960 when the movie "Spartacus" opened at the Pantages Theatre in Hollywood. Stanley Kubrick had the theatre reduce the seating area by draping far sides and upper balconys of theatres. When the Capital Theatre was turned in a Cinerama Theatre they draped over large areas in the upper balcony. The large palaces that once were the flag ships in cities were now big white barns to their chains. With what the exhibition and distribution of films were during this time. The large theatre near the Roxy were all first run / Roadshow houses. During Roadshow times you were running two - three performances a day, for sometime up to two years( with some pictures). You were contracted to run so many weeks. The start of the runs were great, but if something bigger was set to open soon after. You were stuck sometimes running to less than half in your houses. So if you look at which ones left first. The Roxy left in the early 60's, the Paramount lasted the the mid 60's, the Capital to the late 60's. The Warner was twinned and had an extra screen in the rear. The Rivoli was twinned and UA damaged the front area so it could not be landmarked. The State was twinned and lasted till the late 80's. The Palace Theatre went back to Broadway stage shows, after a return to 70MM Roadshow type reissues. Criterion last the longest for the Times Square area theatres. Remember we almost lost Radio City back in 1978. (At that time of the final benefit performance would have been "The Three Musketeers" on April 12th. 1978).

Warren I agree with you, but I think most of the movie palaces may have lasted a little longer like in Canada and Britain.The Chicago loop was vital until the early 1970's until exploitation became the norm. Hollywood Blvd did very well during the 1970's day and date with Westwood on Exclusive Runs. The urban core in most of our downtowns were declining in the 1960's some faster than others. I still think if more thought and imagination many of our great cinemas could have been incorporated within a megaplex like the Cinerama Dome,Gruaman's Chinese,Odeon in London,and the Rex in Paris. I think in Times Sqaure the Criterion could have been incorporated into a megaplex. I think City planners in New York City should have pushed for a megaplex on Times Square as well as 42nt St. I loved the era of the exlusive run because these theatres were deluxe houses and put on a great show. I know Chicago didn't want any new megaplex built in the Loop they wanted them off North Michigan Ave across the river.I think if the Roxy had lasted a little longer it would have made a great mid size concert hall the way Radio City became in the late 1970's.brucec

Bruce, I doubt that the Roxy and RCMH could have co-existed as concert venues. Not enough bookings to go around. Nowadays, RCMH is "dark" much of the time. In fact, if I recall correctly, the Roxy was owned in its last years by Rockefeller Center, which arranged for its demolition partly for the real estate value and partly to eliminate it from competition with RCMH.

Reading these posts here and for other showplaces makes me a litle nauseous over what we've lost.

In reading these comments about movie palaces, I would like to add comments about San Francisco's Market Street. Market Street was at one time a major street for movie theater going and you had all levels of theaters on that street, from first-run/roadshow(United Artists, St Francis, Fox, Paramount, Orpheum(a Cinerama house), RKO Golden Gate) to second-run (Fox Warfield, Esquire) to last run(grindhouses like Pix, Regal, and Hub). The early 1960's saw major changes as Market Street started going into decline. Some theaters would close(Fox & Paramount in early 1960's, Orpheum in the mid-1960's which resulted in the Golden Gate becoming a Cinerama theater), some would turn to "adults only"(Hub, Centre, Pix), and the others would hang on. Around 1970, BART construction began, which tore up Market Street and claim some more theaters(most notably Esquire and Pix). The three first-run houses changed as well. Both the Golden Gate and St Francis had twinned. Golden Gate would largely show action and kung-fu films. The St Francis alternated between action and second-run product. United Artists changed its name to Market Street Cinema, and largely showed blaxploitation and some second-run. Several more theaters turned to hard porn(Centre, Guild became Pussycat, Regal became Mitchell Brothers Bijou--Even Market Street Cinema went porn in 1980). Second-run theaters like the Warfield and the Esquire had deteriorated and largely became havens for bums to get a cheap place to sleep. About 1 1/2 yrs ago, the last theater to show movies on Market Street closed--The Strand. It was a theater that went from second run to grindhouse to revival house and ended as a seedy porn theater(showing video) and it was shut by the police due to open drug dealing that was rampant there.

Luckily, the Orpheum and the Golden Gate show Broadway shows there now.

The New York Times obituary of Fay Wray claimed that "King Kong" had its NYC premiere at Radio City Music Hall and the Roxy. Of course, we all know that's incorrect. The second theatre was the New Roxy, which later had its name changed to the Center to avoid confusion with the original Roxy. I e-mailed a correction to the NYT and hope that they print it.

Scott very nicely put about San Francisco's Market street movie district.
I've only been in the Orpheum, Golden Gate, Warfield, St. Francis and the Strand Theatres along Market Street. Boy, that street had some very incredible theatres at one time.

Good job Warren!, I too read the article and sorta just grunbled something to myself about getting the facts straight. I am Glad you took action, This is not trivia they are writting about, it's historic fact.

There are quite a few exterior views of the Roxy and other midtown theatres at the website of Theatre Historical Society of America. Go to www.historictheatres.org, and then look for the Photo Gallery and its Joe Coco Collection of New York Theatres. Happy hunting!

Correction on Market St. The City of San Francisco is to blame for letting the theatre district portion of Market Street decline so badly and its still a mess today. The Golden Gate has to post security in front of the theatre on show nights because the area is so bad. Both Oakland and San Jose have worked on improving there main street where San Francisco has done nothing to improve Market between the old JC Penney Dept store and the Orpheum. Its a disgrace for a city that is ranked one of the worlds top tourist destinations.The Warfield never deteriorated its the best preserved downtown movie palace the city has. The Warfield was completely renovated/restored in 1969 by National General with the intention of making the Warfield a reseved seat roadshow house. By 1971 the era of the roadshow was over. I remember when Mike Thomas took over the Warfield and it was in beautiful condition. I saw live in person films tributes to Mae West,Lana Turner,Sophia Loren and Joan Fontaine in the late 1970's at the Warfield. The Warfield was in great condition when it became a concert venue.Who would brave this part of Market Street to see a movie today its scary enough to attend a broadway show at the Golden Gate.brucec

Warren and Vito,
We are probably the only 3 people on the face of the planet who know or care that King Kong opened at the new Roxy and not the old Roxy. As New York compulsively destroys its history and diminishes its quality of life out of monstrous greed(a Manhattan football stadium anyone?) you've got to admit this is nothing but arcane info with no relation to life as we know it. We're talking about another civilization.

Vincent I also care so now there are four people on the planet.I enjoy the postings from Warren,Vito and yourself. I wish there was a time machine and we could go back to this era of movie palace we all love.I think in our postings we are helping keep this part of our history alive. I at least attended the San Francisco Fox as a child but I wish I could have attended the Roxy I probably wouldn't want to leave. I love Radio City but the Roxy was the Cathedral of motion pictures.brucec

Make it five. I care too. I enjoy all the postings and have learned so much that I didn't know before. It's just great that we can all share our knowledge with one another.

Better link: www.historictheatres.org
(Link above has an extra comma!)

Going to work as a projectionist and finding hundreds of people on line waiting to enter the wonders of a movie palace is one of the greatest joys of my life. The thrill of looking down from from my booth porthole to hundreds if not thousands of people and listining to the roars of laughter at "Some Like It Hot" or the screams during "Physco" can not be described. I can not forget seeing countless numbers of kids enjoying a movie matinee of westerns, cartoons and The 3 Stooges. When I dimmed the lights at the start of the show and heard all those children scream delight in anticipation of what I was about to present to them would always choke me up a little. Well.... you just had to be there.

I care too, so make it six! I have an old (1972) xerox copy from microfilm of the original 1933 opening day ad for "King Kong" which gives the address of the New Roxy as 6th Ave. and 49th St. This confused me at first because I'd thought the Roxy was near 7th Ave. - this was before I learned they were two different theaters. I believe the ad lists "King Kong"'s two theaters as Radio City Music Hall and Radio City New Roxy.

I'm surprised that Rockefeller Center permitted the theatre to open as the New Roxy. Their lawyers must have known that there would be a challenge by the original Roxy Theatre. I suppose that "Roxy" himself, who was now employed by Rockefeller Center, promised them otherwise, but he proved wrong. So RC had to go to considerable expense to change the marquee and two vertical signs to the new name of Center.

Back in February there was discussion about FOX's new screen process CinemaScope 55. There was some question as to whether THE KING AND I and CAROUSEL were ever shown in this process. In a rare screening Friday (8/20) the Academy in Beverly Hills presented for the first time a rare remastered screening of THE KING AND I in CinemaScope 55. It was thrilling finally getting to see this sumptuous filming of the Rodgers and Hammerstein classic in its original aspect ratio with a remastered soundtrack in 4 track Dolby Digital. A FOX spokesman explained that NO theatre ever showed the 55mm version of this film or CAROUSEL since projectors at that time could not be equipped to convert from 35mm to 55mm and so both films went out in 35mm. Studio head Zanuck decided to advertise both films in this process hoping to fool the public into thinking they were seeing something they were not. Hence the confusion.

We can compare the advertising of CinemaScope 55 with VistaVision.
Very few theatres (Radio City, Paramount) actually presented movies in VistaVision projection. However, both formats, when shown with reduction prints, looked magnificent. I think Mr Zanuck recogonised that and did not really feel he was fooling the public, but giving the movies a better presentaion even in the reduction prints.

I saw "Windjammer" in 1958 early on and found it very enjoyable. I was seated in the lower center balcony and found the detail of the subject (in which I had a close interest) quite good. The seams were somewhat annoying but the transition from normal to full aspect after the introduction was most spectacular and I still see it clearly in my mind's eye.

The theater itself gave me the strong impression of being "tired" as I walked around before and during intermission. I knew it's time was coming.

Mr. Lundy is quite right that the ROXY probably looked "tired" in the late '50s, since by then the palaces had been divested by the chains that once owned them, and local or regional owners were in it only for the money and virtually all serious upkeep was discontinued. The corps of ushers disappeared, as soon did the stagehands, and so gradually did the audience as most of those who could afford to, moved to the suburbs in most cities and the big theatres were no longer very profitable. It cost a lot more to keep such huge palaces as the ROXY clean, and lit, and few owners/operators were willing to make an investment in them as they perceived the scene changing to the suburban single screen, soon to be replaced itself with the multiplex and later the automated projection of the megaplex. I tell myself that had the owners/operators tried by investing more for rigorous cleaning (lush drapery was beautiful, but laden with thick dust, it was not so beautiful) and keeping the hundreds or thousands of lights lit, along with usual repairs, that the young audience would have found the palaces a new delight, and continued coming, but now I doubt it. It was the post war generation that was jaded with entertainment, had a plethora of cars (and other entertainments available because of cars), and a social discipline that existed in earlier years was gone, such as buildings representing private property that was to be respected. The forward writer to the late Ben Hall's book THE BEST REMAINING SEATS… turned out to be right in calling it an "appropriate epitaph" in that the era was even then in 1961 seen to be over, and only a few palaces as 'dinosaurs' would remain as tokens of those early days. Usually, in those cases where they remained standing it was only because the property value under them had not increased enough in some locations to justify knocking them down, and businessmen are in it for profit, not nostalgia. We must treasure what remains today all the more.

There was a weekly film journal called Harrison's Reports, and it had been published every week since the 1920's. Their office was located in Rockefeller Center. They folded in the late 1950's and, in one of their final issues, the publisher wrote an editorial about the current state of the exhibition industry. He commented on the sorry state of the various Times Square movie palaces, noting how run down and poorly maintained they were.

Your firsthand report only verifies his comments, and I'm surprised to learn how early these great theaters started to go downhill.

Memories Roxy theater circa 1932-45. As you entered the grand lobby a uniformed usher called out in a stentorian voice "there is immediate seating in all parts of the house,take the grand stairway to your left". Of course this would lead you to the balcony, not the best seats in the house. However if you took the small stairway to the right you would wind up on the loge. When the show began the orchestra slid in from the left.(not rising like at the Music Hall) As I recall the Rocketts were not the whole show.It was more like vaudiville. I remember seeing lots of dog acts,Carman Cavelero, Jimmy Salvo, The Harmonacats, acrobats,and the incredable Nicholas Brothers doing their running splits right there on stage,live.Well it's time for me to go to 6th Av. and catch the el train home. H.

I know this has nothing to do with this theater, but didn't know where to ask....
I am trying to find out about the building that now houses the Roxy Concert Hall in Times Square. It oviously was a theater at one time before becoming a Dance Hall and COncert Hall. I don't know if it was a movie theater or not, but does anyone know the name of that "Roxy". I have seen a number of concerts there, and was a bit facinated with the building (which is pretty trashed).

I think the Roxy Concert Hall was once the Forum 47th St. theater. At least that's what it was called in the 1960's and 1970's. I think it had another name earlier than that. I saw "The Ten Commandments" and "E.T." there.

What is the exact address of the Roxy Concert Hall? Is it around the corner from the Roxy Deli? That corner parcel of land was once occupied by the Central Theatre (1567 Broadway), which had numerous names after that including the Forum and Movieland. In 1989, the theatre was sold to a restaurant developer who stripped the interior to the bare brick walls. I thought it had since been demolished, but perhaps a portion remains. The Roxy Deli is roughly where the Broadway entrance was and occupies only what was once lobby space. I'm sure that there is a listing here for the Central Theatre, but perhaps not under the original name.

Warren is right - the theater is listed under the name Movieland:

http://www.cinematreasures.org/theater/2925/

The ice shows at the Roxy in the 50's sealed the fate of the Kimball organ. The organ had 34 sets (ranks) of pipes, 31 of them were installed under the stage (Roxy's idea) and 3 of them over the proscenium arch. After Roxy's departure for Radio City Music Hall, the organ fell silents and the three consoles (main/brass/woodwind) were put into storage. There was a proposal made before this by the W.W. Kimball Company of Chicago to move the pipes under the stage, but nothing came of it. The pit was extended, so the openings to the organ chamber were sealed. Years later, the organ was resurrected with the main console (5 keyboards) being hoisted up to a small performer's balcony on the left side of the theater. The pipes were amplified into the house sound system. Although it probably sounded pretty bad, there was at least organ music at the Roxy. The Roxy Kimball, as installed, was never something special, except for the three consoles in the orchestra pit. It suffered from being partially blocked by the pit. The organs at THE N.Y. Paramount and Radio City Music Hall were far better. It wasn't Kimball's fault ... it was Roxy's. Kimball built a quality product.

The purchase of the Kimball instrument was influenced by Roxy himself. He liked their product over other builders, such as WurliTzer. The Roxy had two other organs in the building, one in the Rotunda (Lobby) and one in the broadcasting studio. Sadly, these two instruments, along with the massive Deagan tower chimes, went down with the building. Only the 5-manual console from the main auditorium and some choice Kimball pipework were saved. The surviving Roxy console is privately owned and is in Las Vegas.

While on the subject of the venerable W.W. Kimball Company, when Roxy moved to RCMH, he asked the Kimball Company to bid on the Rockefeller Center project and its FOUR organs. The Music Hall, RKO Roxy (Center), the Rainbow Room and the Music Hall's broadcast studio. Kimball was not able to build the instruments in the end due to the depression and the Rudolph WurliTzer Manufacturing Company of North Tonawanda, NY, completed the contract. The Music Hall organ, very much influenced by the Atlantic City Convention Hall's Ballroom Kimball organ), retained the Kimball specification (so it's really a Kimball organ with two identical WurliTzer consoles). The Center's organ was a scaled-down version with the same sized console, done in a nature cherry finish. (It lives on in California beautifully restored.) The Rainbow Room organ was a WurliTzer stock residence model organ and the RCMH Broadcasting organ was a custom specification.

I guess we are fortunate as listeners that the Music Hall organ (and both consoles) received an expert restoration when the Hall was restored in 1999. Yes ... I am a theatre organ afficinado. I will try to find a picture of the Center console in its present glory.

While on this subject, what about Roseland Ballroom. That also looks like it was a theater at one time. It's on I think Broadway and 52nd St. Was that a movie theater or a legit theater, and what was it's name?

No, it was never a theatre. It was converted from an ice skating rink after the original Roseland on Broadway was forced to close due to construction for the City Squire Hotel. I've posted this already at another listing, possibly for the one for the Hollywood/Mark Hellinger/Times Square Church.

Found this site about the Roxy's organs. Not sure if it's been posted yet, I don't think I saw it on this page.

Also, I am surprised the "Style" field at the intro section for the Roxy is "Unknown". Does anyone know what the architectural style would be considered for the Roxy so this can get filled in?

The Roxy was (I think) the first great movie palace to be torn down in New York City. Was there any kind of effort to save it at that time?

It's hard to believe that it fell to the wreckers ball when it wasn't even 40 years old!

It also is sad that for a newish theatre it was starting to get run down. This is the one theatre I regret not being able to see. My mother still talks about her and my grandmother taking the train to the city to go see matinees at the Roxy.

I don't recall any efforts to save the Roxy. If it had been situated in a smaller city with fewer theatres, there might have been. But the Roxy seemed to have out-lived its usefulness as a movie theatre, and what else could it function as? New York already had its fill of concert halls and such.

The closest single-term description of the ROXY's style is: "Spanish Baroque" though in the late Ben Hall's 1961 book "The Best Remaining Seats: The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" (still found in several editions at larger libraries, via Inter-Library Loan, and at www.Amazon.com ) there are chapters devoted to this, obviously the author's opinion of it as the high water mark of palace construction, and on page 121 begins his description of it as "plateresque": "an exuberant Spanish grafting of Renaissance details on Gothic forms with Moorish overtones."

Sad to say, the ROXY disappeared in 1960 before the trend to architectural preservation began, and as brought out in the book, the land under its lobby was owned by the adjacent Taft Hotel, and when new owners of the hotel decided to expand their hotel, they declined to renew the lease on the land, so the ROXY was no doubt doomed from that legal perspective alone, not to mention that attendance was falling off rapidly as it was across the country. Not only had the venerable monument been defaced and altered inside, but it was built as were all palaces with the need of thousands of patrons paying several times daily in order to have enough to warrant it a good investment for its owners, as well as have the funds for upkeep and staff. Yes, perhaps if it had been elsewhere where the land values were less, but still an audience of many thousands to fill its seats, it might have been around to this day, but the few huge palaces still standing are either cut up as is The PARADISE in the Bronx; abandoned: the UPTOWN in Chicago; or barely hanging in there with much different formats: RADIO CITY M.H.) I don't know of any community that can maintain a 6,000-seat palace outside of NYC, and they are having a rough time of it.

Look, they were all set to tear down Carnige Hall also around the same time.

Jim Rankin...I wonder if you could expand on your statement above..."the venerable monument(had) been defaced and altered inside". I attended one of the last performances of "The Wind Cannot Read" (the last attraction) and everything appeared as usual except that the stairways to the balcony were roped off.

I agree with RobertR that it was getting worn. Once in the late 50's I recall sitting in one of the first rows of the orchestra for the stage show and noticed that the gold fringe at the bottom of the house curtain was starting to become detached. Otherwise, the place appeared quite spectacular, but then things in memory for over 40 years become cloudy and the flaws are covered up.

Does anyone know what happened to any of the furnishings and fixtures from the Roxy? We know that the main organ console is in Las Vegas, but what about the oval rug and the chandelier from the rotunda? And does anyone know where the statues that flanked the staircase to the loges are today? Does anyone know the location of any other odds and ends?

You might get that answer about furnishings and fixtures from the company that was used to teardown the theatre. Because when Fox's Carthay Circle Theatre was being torndown they used the Cleveland Wrecking Company. As they did on many of their other theatres during the 60's-70's. Just before their toredown Carthay Circle, they let managers and other employees take furnishings and fixtures from the theatre. When they demolish a theatre the wrecking company gets title to all or almost all of the fixtures. Cleveland Wrecking made out like bandits on many of those Fox houses. I got a box office coin change machine from Carthay Circle. When Pacific Theatre's Wiltern Theatre was going to be closed and demolished. Pacific Theatres held the lease to the theatre and the fixtures & furnishings. They stripped many things out of that theatre. Like the original seats, many of the original light fixtures and the might Kimball organ. So many of the items in the Wiltern today are reproductions of the original items. When they tri-plexed the Pacific 1,2,3 Theatre (aka: Hollywood Pacific, Warner Hollywood), they replaced all of the balcony hallway light fixtures. They took off these Spanish ironwork fixtures and replaced them with plastic light fixtures. I found five of them ready to be trashed. Remember when the Fox Theatre in San Francisco was being torndown. They sold fixtures and furishings to the public.

This is what Cleveland Wrecking Company would place on the marquee of theatres that they were demolishing.

"RETURN ENGAGEMENT BRINGING DOWN THE HOUSE THE CLEVELAND WRECKING COMPANY"

ErwinM: I can't find the authority I read at the moment, but it said that when wide screen projection was installed, they hacked away the "choral stairways" and balconies from the sides of the proscenium, and removed the draperies in that area as well. I don't know how much of the auditorium-wide, large scale "drapery treatment" by 20th Century Fox remained from 1937 as shown in a photo in Marquee magazine of 4th Qtr. 1979, but the place was drastically covered over for that re-do. Marquee: www.HistoricTheatres.org

Ziggy: There was an auction or sale of the furnishings after closing according to another source I cannot locate at the moment, but it would probably be difficult to find any of the items today. Likely, you can go to the library and find the ads for such in the papers of summer, 1960, but even if you can still locate the contractor, it is highly doubtful that they will still have anything. I recall reading that the rotunda chandelier was offered to Cardinal Spellman's residence, but it was just too big for that too! Marquee magazine of 1st Qtr. 1979 is a special issue devoted to the ROXY and a photo there shows the chandelier resting on the famous carpet as it is being dismantled. Something tells me that after so many years of traffic, and having the building's furnishings hauled out to it, the carpet was in no condition to be saved; and saved for whom, for that matter? Where could it possibly have been placed, much less cleaned, given its size? It is likely that the statues were sold, but to whom? For those determined to find some artifacts, one might search such as www.eBay.com or put an ad in such as the NEW YORKER. Talking to some of the older local antiques shops might also lead to a current owner of some item, but the odds are slim, and prices would be high, no doubt akin to the recent offer of an emblazoned piece of the lobby railing from the NY PARAMOUNT on eBay for only $12,000! (Needless to say, there were no bids for the item, and it was withdrawn.) Best Wishes on your quest.

Thanks William and Jim, I had no intention of buying any items, I just was wondering where things may have ended up. I saw the section of the railing from the Paramount for sale and was wondering why they would even bother having it up for auction if the opening bid is $12,000.

I had the pleasure of skating in the Roxy shows from 1956 to 1958.We skated to Louis Armstrong and his group playing "When the Saints Come Marching In" annd every show it would make the hair on my neck stand up. We had some great shows in those years. That time of my life will always bring good memories. It was a privilage to be part of Roxy's history.

Sandy Szabo szabothegreat@nj.rr.com

It's hard to believe this was all just torn down.

http://historyproject.ucdavis.edu/imageapp.php?Major=TW&Minor=B&SlideNum=69.00



http://historyproject.ucdavis.edu/imageapp.php?Major=TW&Minor=B&SlideNum=71.00

http://historyproject.ucdavis.edu/imageapp.php?Major=TW&Minor=B&SlideNum=70.00

Sorry the above second link is the Paramount, not the Roxy. Here is the right one.

Hi. I hope you all don't mind that I post a question here on the Roxy portion of the site but there's a theater in the neighborhood where I work in Manhattan that I cannot find the name of. I work on 7th Ave in the 50's. There is an old movie theater on the eastern side of 7th Ave between 49th and 49th Street. The marquee is still there and it's being advertised to be used as a store. There actually might be two of them. One has an ad for the American Girl doll store and the other is the next block down heading south. What are these? Thanks!

The theatre is the Mayfair, later known as the DeMille and Embassy 2,3,4. It's listed here under one of those names.

The Mayfair/DeMille/Embassy 2,3,4 is the one that is located heading south. The one with the american girl ad is at 711 7th ave. and there is another theatre located one block north. It now houses a gentlemans club "Lace".

I think Lace is the Old Cine 1 & 2

I just took a walk past these theaters and was wondering about the one with the American Girl ad. What was that one called? Jeez, so many theaters, one right after the other so close together.

Just look at how 42nd Street looked with all those theatres too.

To the best of my memory, there was never a "real" theatre at 711 Seventh Avenue. If that's the address of the "old Cine 1&2," they were converted from retail space. There were also some small "theatres" near there on Broadway that were converted from the legendary Latin Quarter nightclub (operated by the father of guess which lisping TV legend?).

Might that be Barbara "Baba Wawa" Walters, Warren?

Back in the 50s I worked at 52th and 10th but I would take the subway every morning to 42nd St. and walk to 52nd so I could see all those wonderful marquees on 42nd between B'way/7th Ave and 8th. I would start by having coffee across from the Paramount. Some times I would come home the same way walking down B'way, starting with the Rivoli on one side and The Capital on the other, down to the Times Square subway station, passing all those magnificent theatres along the way.I can't stand to see 42nd street now with all those theatres gone. I cherish those photos of the pre 70s Times Square if anyone knows were to find some.

Vito, go to this page: http://images.google.com/images?q=42nd+St&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
It says there are about 1,800 images of 42nd St. Pack a lunch and enjoy the trip!

Jim, thanks for that link. It is exactally what I was looking for and more. I will be spending many more happy hours researching all the links that page took me to. I had forgotten many of the wonderful neon signs that graced Times Square, it was a wonderful reminder. It also took me back to the days of the Automat were one could have a complete dinner for less than a buck

I have two very interesting shots of the Roxy taken from the corner of 50th and Seventh (the SW corner). One shows "My Friend Flicka" showing while the other is for "Stormy Weather". How do I get them onto this site for all to see? What is so interesting about the shots is that they clearly show where the entrance was. And the building is still there with a lot of the architectural details still intact to this day (the arches in the windows). What's sicker is to consider what replaced the Roxy: this awful looking Sports Illustrated building. You can see exactly where the Roxy was.

In September this year, J. F. Lundy mentioned that he saw
"Windjammer" in the CineMiracle process at the Roxy. Lundy
may then be the only person on earth who can answer the following
question. It's a simple one: were screen curtains and masking
used during this particular ultra-large-screen presentation, or was the screen "bare"?
I ask this because there is evidence that National Theatres,
the distributor and exhibitor, spared themselves the expense
of curtains during subsequent CineMiracle engagements at the
huge Chicago Opera House as well as in both small and large venues
using "portable" CineMiracle equipment in locations such as Lancaster, PA and Atlantic City, NJ.
And one final (hopefully) word on CinemaScope 55 at the Roxy
and elsewhere. It is true that in the States only 35mm
reduction anamorphic prints were used in theatres where
"CS 55" was advertised as such. However, all of these engage-
ments used interlocked 6-track magnetic sound (as opposed to 4-track sound-on-film), and, most importantly, were projected in the original CinemaScope aspect ratio of 2.55:1 (as opposed to the post 1954 ratio of 2.35:1). Take note that the first 4 theatres in the US that premiered CinemaScope 55 were also the first 4 theatres in
the US that premiered CinemaScope (35), and presumably still
had the requisite screen material and masking to present
a 2.55:1 image. These houses other than the Roxy are the
Grauman's Chinese, the Chicago State-Lake, and the Philadelphia
Fox.

I saw "Windjammer" at the Roxy during Easter Week just after it opened, and, yes, I'm absolutely certain about the proper use of screen curtains and masking. It was a quality presentation. I had also seen "The King and I" in CinemaScope55 at the Roxy (with a ice-stage show developed on the theme of airplane travel, ice-skates and all) in late Spring '56. They used the projection booth at the mezzanine level for a less distorted image. The masking apparatus at the Roxy must have been quite versatile, since the ratio changed for newsreels (projected at 1.33) and wide-screen short subjects (at 1.6; between Sept '53 and Oct '56, the Roixy showed only CinemaScope features; the exception was "Giant" in Oct '56) and no doubt for various small calibrations of CinemaScope as well.

Thanks, BoxOfficeBill. One further question: did the curtain/screen installation cover the entire front wall like, say, the Loew's Capitol, or was the installation more or less just in front of the proscenium on an extended thrust stage like the original Cinerama engagements?

I'm fascinated by all the rich material on the Roxy that I read. I grew up going to the Roxy in the mid and late 50's saw Peyton Place, A Farewell to Arms, Imitation Of Life, The Tunnel Of love and a few others. At that age I much prefered the great Hall but how wonderful it would be to still have those theatres with us.

The huge CineMiracle screen sat in front of the proscenium, over the orchestra pit, on an extended thrust stage. It had a temporary look to it, not at all like the subsequently remodelled Capitol or Loew's State, which appeared as though management had planned for the long haul. Upon exiting from "Windjammer," I remember signs in the lobby announcing the next CineMiracle film then in production, the disasterous "The Miracle" with Carroll Baker. The latter, of course, was finally released in a shrunken Technirama in November '59, when it had a brief three-week run as the Thanksgiving show at RCMH.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the audiences at the Roxy, RCMH, Capitol, Paramount, Loew's State, Strand, Rivoli, Criterion, Astor, Victoria, Mayfair, etcetera actually lived in Manhattan? Did they attend these theatres regularly whenever the programs changed, or did Manhattanites wait for the movies to come to theatres closer to their homes? I doubt if any marketing studies were ever done.

Warren, I know that some studies of markets were done even back in the 20s, and likely the Theatre Historical Society, if anyone, has these studies or knows where to find them. You might inquire of them via their Ex. Director, Richard Sklenar whose address is given on their web site's front page at: www.HistoricTheatres.org

Someone mentioned the picture of Gloria Swanson standing in the ruins of the Roxy.He mentioned seeing it in Live Magazine but I saw it in a book that I think was called Fading Movie Palaces It was the last page of a wonderful book that I have never been able to find again. It was out about 1959 Can anyone give me any help.
David Robertson

David: the title you are looking for is the landmark book: THE BEST REMAINING SEATS, THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE written in 1961 by Ben M. Hall who was murdered in 1971. It is available from most libraries or on Inter-Library Loan. Sometimes it, or one of its two successive editions (minus the color plates of the '61 first edition) can sometimes be found at www.Amazon.com Some used book stores also carry the issue of AMERICAN HERITAGE magazine (actually a hard bound) of October, 1961, which has the color plates in an article titled: "The Best REE=maining Seats" but not Swanson's photo which you found in his book. See more at www.HistoricTheatres.org the organization founded as a result of his book.

David;
The book you refer to is titled "The Best Remaining Seats" - The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace by Ben M. Hall Published by Bramhall House in 1961

It has ben re-printed a couple of times since then and there are copies to be found in 2nd hand book stores and on the internet.

Was Ben Hall's murder ever solved, or is the case still open?

There is a nice reprint of the color photo of Swanson standing in the rubble of the Roxy in the book EVERYTHING WAS POSSIBLE..THE BIRTH OF THE MUSICAL FOLLIES. Supposedly this picture which was published in Life Magazine was the inspiration for the Sondheim Broadway musical FOLLIES.

Warren: The murder Ben M. Hall, author of the book THE BEST REMAINING SEATS: THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE, was never solved to the best of my knowledge, but then I am not a New Yorker, so may have missed hearing of it. Incidentally, the date I gave was wrong; a news item about his murder appears in the New York Times of Dec. 16, 1970, page 54, titled: "WRITER FOUND SLAIN IN VILLAGE ROOMS" and reads:

"Benjamin M. Hall III, a writer and historian of American movie theaters and an expert on old theater organs, was found dead in his apartment early today with his throat slashed, according to the police. Mr. Hall, who was 47 years old, occupied the upper two floors of a house at 181 Christopher St. in Greenwich Village.

"The police said that a neighbor, who lived on a lower floor, became suspicious when he heard Mr. Hall's telephone ringing for almost an hour late last night and early today. He went upstairs and, the police said, found three days' mail piled near Mr. Hall's door. The neighbor summoned the owner of the building and, together, they found Mr. Hall's body in his bed.

"Mr. Hall, a graduate of the University of North Carolina, was active in the American Theater Organ Enthusiasts [now: ,]www.ATOS.org], a group that sought to restore and preserve the huge pipe organs that once graced many movie theaters across the nation."

One might contact the NYC police as to the disposition of the case, since there is no statute of limitations on murder, but it is somewhat doubtful that they retain records from that long ago date. Since he founded the THEATRE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA [www.HistoricTheatres.org] in 1969, it is possible that his friends there may know more of this. I always liked the blurb about him on the back jacket flap of his book: "…now lives in New York in a large and unorthodox apartment. It contains (among other odds and ends) a baby grand Pianola, a two manual organ, some murals rescued from the late lamented Loew's 72nd St. Theater, an electric fountain, a collection of vintage telephones, and enough stereo and recording equipment to make his neighbors wish he lived somewhere else."

Warren-- About movie attendance in Manhattan: I found a few leads (though nothing specific to Manhattan by browsing under the following Subject Headings in the Library of Congress, on-line catalogue: “Motion picture audiences--United States” and “Motion picture industry—United States—Finance--Statistics” (though the latter focuses mostly on studio production) and “Motion picture theaters—United States—History.” The trick is to type in “Motion picture” rather than “Movie.” Ahh, yes, the Motion Picture!
Two older books are: Leo Handel, Hollywood Looks at Its Audience: A Report of Film Audience Research, Univ of Illinois P, 1950; and Bruce Austin, The Film Audience: An International Bibliography of Research, Scarecrow Press, 1983. Both are likely outdated. But there’s been a flurry of academic publications on movie attendance in the past few years.
Here are some recent titles:
Michael Putnam, Silent Screens: The Decline and Transformation of the American Movie Theater, Johns Hopkins UP, 2000
Tom Stempel, American Audiences on Movies and Movie-going, Univ Press of Kentucky, 2001
Douglas Gomery, Shared Pleasures: A History of Movie Presentation in the US, Univ of Wisconsin P, 1992
Richard Haines, The Moviegoing Experience, McFarland Press, 2003
Barbara Wilinsky, Sure Seaters: The Emergence of the Art House Cinema, Univ of Minnesota P, 2001
Charles Acland, Screen Traffic: Movies, Multiplexes, and Global Culture, Duke Univ P, 2003
Personally, I wouldn’t celebrate much that issues from Duke Univ P these days. Whoever thought that the plateresque Roxy and so many gothic halls of ivy could wind up on the same web page?

PS-- the book “Times Square Style” provides a rare color photo of a stage show at the Roxy, on page 35, upper right, with sixteen Roxyettes balancing themselves on beach balls, while a jazz band (Louis Armstrong?) plays behind them; as a kid, I had a post-card of that image in my collection, which identified it as a Roxy performance.

ken roe and jim rankin
Thank you for name of book now i have ordered through library and seems to be copy on E bay
David Robertson

ken roe and jim rankin
Thank you for name of book now i have ordered through library and seems to be copy on E bay
David Robertson

I have fond memories of the Roxy. I remember seeing "The King & I", "Carousel", "A Man Called Peter" and several others. They started at one point to give programs out, imitating the Radio City Music Hall. The programs, I believe were printed in green ink. I have several in my collection, if I could find them. I was unaware that the Roxy was unable to screen these films in Cinemacope 55. I recall how magnificent the theater was inside and it didn't have long lines like the Music Hall to buy tickets. It's true that "Oklahoma" never played at the Roxy; it was at the Rivoli, because it was in Todd AO. Most films at the Roxy were from 2oth Century Fox. The marquis was more attractive than the Music Halls'. I regret to this day that I never saw "The Robe" at the Roxy. I cried when it was demolished; I pass the spot almost every day where it once stood and get sad.

The movie palaces we enjoyed are mostly gone but so are the films, as well as most celebrities. I just saw "Finding Neverland" and almost fell asleep. This film is supposed to be nominated for best picture. What happened to all the great classic films we used to enjoy? I haven't seen a great film since "Titanic" and whatever I do see on small multiplex screens do not offer the experience we used to have watching "Star Wars" in Dolby Stereo in 70mm, as an example. Many will disagree of course and say that today's films are as good as past films. I don't think so. The glamorous and talented actors are no longer around; except for a few exceptions. Where are the Brandos, Burtons,etc? Where are the great musicals? It seems the disappearance of great movie palaces is coinciding with mediocre films that can be viewed at home. It's a sad situation.

I am planning on seeing Aviator this weekend and plan on looking for a theatre that has a big screen to try to get that epic feel. I may drive to the Lafayette since it opens there on Christmas day. I am so sick of shoe-box theatres.

Myron, you couldn't be more right: as the theatres grew smaller, so did the films! Hollywood is no longer the base of artists trying to achieve art, or even enterainment, just PROFITS. Get the video from PBS "The Monster That Ate Hollywood" to find out how the conglomerates are steadily destroying it by authorizing only cookie cutter product best able to guarantee profits. And with the TV writers' stike a few years ago, the studios are trying freeze out the writers to reduce fees. Since all the great novels have been converted to film, the source of good stories in a visual generation is drying up, what with few writers having the morals to write decently, and the studios wanting big effects and soft porn to sell big.

There are thousands of good novels and stage plays that were never filmed. The movie industry is just too lazy to search for them.

Yes, Warren, absolutely: and hundreds of good original scripts, too. The Roxy meanwhile showed few high-minded films, largely because its chief fare was 20C-Fox mainstream product(the higher-minded 20C-Fox films went to the Rivoli or the Mayfair). "Forever Amber" and "Peyton Place" were glitz-lit successes at the Roxy. In '56, however, "Bus Stop," "Giant," and "Anastasia" (following one another in succession) raised the bar a bit.

Yes Bill, but wouldn't we all just love to go back in time and see the grand curtain open with the Fox fanfare just one more time.

Yes, Vito, natch', even if it was to see "Scudda Hoo! Scudda Hay!" which opened there in Spring '48: that all-time stinker about a boy (Lon McCallister) and two mules (which he preferred to June Haver) marked Marilyn Monroe's screen debut (as an innocent hayseed)--Natalie Wood is also in the pic (and it sometimes airs on TCM). The Roxy was pre-eminently the home of the garishly technicolored Betty Grable/Dan Dailey musicals ("Mother Wore Tights"!), which would be fun to see. Best of all might be Clifton Webb's Mr. Belvedere series, starting with "Sitting Pretty," which I remember seein there with a St. Patrick's Day themed stage show (green-clad choruses singing "I'm looking over a Four-Leaf Clover") in March '48 (with previews of the afore-mentioned "Scudda Hoo! Scudda Hay!").

"Wilson," Fox's Technicolored biography of the American president, was a "serious" hit at the Roxy in 1944. The stage show was the equivalent of a patriotic concert by Fred Waring & His Pennsylvanians, with "augmented company of 100."

This site has been quite educating and one of the surprising impressions that I'm getting is that, as grand as the Roxy was, it sounds like both it's decor and presentation was, well...tacky as compared to the Music Hall. Someone either on the Roxy board or the Music Hall even kind of comes out says that the Music Hall's presentation was classier than the Roxy's. Ok...so maybe that person worked at the Music Hall and has not buried his vendetta against the Roxy but is there a grain of truth in this?

And "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" in '45. The creme-de-la-creme would have to be "All About Eve" in October '50. Also in the running would be "Laura," "Miracle on 34 Street," "Night and the City," and "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes." I saw none of them there, but I remember their newspaper ads --always more brassy (for comedy) or lurid (for drama) than comparable ads for ever-so-dignified RCMH.

"I remember their newspaper ads --always more brassy (for comedy) or lurid (for drama) than comparable ads for ever-so-dignified RCMH."

You see? That's what I mean. The Music Hall seemed to present a more "dignified" front while the Roxy appears to have put out a more sensationalistic approach to fill their seats. Very interesting.

The Roxy was a "classic" movie palace, whereas RCMH was modernistic, but that didn't make the Roxy "tacky" unless you didn't like that style of architecture. The Roxy was operated more "commercially," with stage shows that usually had "name" performers with drawing power at the boxoffice. The shows at RCMH were "snobbier," with an emphasis on music, dance and spectacle by a resident company of proficient but usually not famous performers.

Had S. L. 'Roxy' Rothafel not been ousted as grand poohbah of RCMH immediately after opening, who knows what direction presentations there might have taken. There is every possibility that it might have followed his previous efforts at his namesake theater just down the street.

Awwark—you made me do it. I cracked open my cache of programs and playbills sealed up since a move in 1976. Here, from the program for “Bus Stop” in Sept. ’56, is “A story in verse” by the Roxy’s Managing Director Robert C. Rothafel, announcing the ice show “Magic of the Stage.”

All stage magic, dear people, and please hear me well,
Has a charming, and most wond’rous story to tell. . . .
Now the bone, and the rag, and the hank of dyed hair,
The Director auditions on stage, bleak and bare. . . .
. . . ‘Tis the tale of the magic of Scenery to tell. . . .
And now, the Director has taken his stand,
Thus the God-likened power of light, to command. . . .
Tireless master halts briefly for passing review
Of effects in HI-FI, the magnetic and new. . . .
Costumes and make-up cast magical spell,
Over all on the stage and the patrons as well.

It’s a hoot from a stuffed owl, and you gotta love it! In prose, Rothafel also wrote a Personal Message to the Patrons for each new stage show. Here, from the program for “The Sun Also Rises” in August ’57, is his blurb for “Showplane,” devised on the theme of air travel: “In essence, containing perhaps more showmanship than many show business ventures, Miss Betty Murray’s idea for ‘Showplane’ was brought to reality by Pan American World Airlines. . . . Ever seeking the timely and the new, ‘Showplane’ offers to the Roxy, highly imaginative, new sources for new faces and new formats. Thus working cooperatively with Pan Am and Miss Murray, makes an exciting reality of bringing to the Roxy stage, outstanding personalities and ideas from Showplane’s travels throughout Pan Am’s world of 82 countries.” I reproduce the purple prose verbatim. What might a ‘50s school marm do with its non sequiturs, redundancies, whimsical punctuation, and broken syntax?

Here, finally, is Rothafel fudging the truth about CinemaScope 55 (much discussed in previous postings for the Roxy) in his Message for “The King and I” in June ’56: “For a motion picture of such magnitude, . . . we at the Roxy are grateful to Twentieth Century Fox. In this instance our appreciation is twofold—for grandeur and excellence in entertainment; and for pioneering developments in sound engineering—making possible the completed innovation of the century (introduced with CinemaScope 55 and “Carousel”)—Six channel magnetic sound. Spending again as much as was spent before, the Roxy now enjoys the finest and most modern equipment achievements, making possible the presentation of CinemaScope 55 with new six channel High Fidelity and True Directional Magnetic and Stereophonic Sound.” I like that: “the completed innovation of the century” and “equipment achievements.”

Yes, the Roxy could be "tacky"—but who’d want to complain? Maybe "camp" is the better word--it confers an affectionate note.

Note that these "quotes" are by writings of Roxy's son, Robert, not the great man his father was: Samuel Lionel Ropthapfel (legally changed to Rothafel in the Teutophobic years after WWI). Whether Robert intended to honor his Dad's style is not known. Of course, hyperbole was always the concommitant of show business!

As to the ROXY being "tacky" one only has to read the extensive chapters in the late Ben M. Hall's landmark book THE BEST REMAINING SEATS: THE STORY OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOVIE PALACE to learn that the ROXY started out with just the same programming that the Music Hall did, but that by 1931 the ROXY was deprived of both Mr. Rothafel, as well as most of the financial backing it originally had. The Rockefellers were in a much better position to fund RCMH, and so it took the higher ground the ROXY was forced to abandon. In its last years, the venerable ROXY was humbled repeatedly and took anything the audiences fleeing to TV might accept. Sic transit gloria.

Look, the entire reason why I found this great website is because of The Roxy. I will never forget my parent's describing this place. Their descriptions have remained with me to this day. My Mother often commented as I "ooh-ed" and "ahhh-ed" at the Music Hall how it paled in comparison to The Roxy. "Now that was a place" she would always say. So I don't mean any offense.

Remember the Roxy was the flagship for 20th Century-Fox. The Music Hall played the top films of the day from various studios. The Roxy followed the decline of the studio system in the late 1950's. The Music Hall had its last great year in 1967 and the old Hollywood had died by 1970 with the beginning of the new Hollywood. Hollywood had its best financial year since 1946 in the year 1967.The industry went into a severe decline after 1967 and didn't start a revovery until 1972. The release of "Star Wars" changed the industry forever.The industry has been very stable since with all the large studios being owned by deep pocketed media companies such as Time Warner,News Corp,Disney,Viacom,Sony and General Electric's NBC Univeral. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer a shadow of its former self with a huge library of non-M_G_M films will be taken over by Sony next year.The growth of Cable,Dvd,pay on demand has made the film libraries very valuable to these companies. I still think the industry produces some very good films each year along with a lot of crap.Its a testament to the old Hollywood that the years 1939-1941 at the height of the studio system and it movie palaces,produced the greatest number of mass quality films in Hollywood history.The Roxy and the Music Hall were two of the industries shining stars at the time.brucec

I know a lot about films and such but why was 1967 such a banner year? You had some "new" Hollywood films that year like "The Graduate" and "Bonnie & Clyde". Curious to know why 1967 was such a success financially? It's a curious issue.

"Star Wars" defined the mass saturation releases that are used today but it was "Jaws" that was THE first film the "go wide" BIG time. When the studios say the $$$$$ pouring in when the did the wide release, any thought of the old time limited release was dead.

Star Wars which was released after Jaws still opened on a rather exclusive basis. Many theatres played this film from 6 months to a year. I managed a theatre which played "Star Wars" on an exlusive run for more than 6 months. The wide saturation started with the building of the megaplex 14-25 screen theatres. Most films released today drop almost 50% by the second week because they are showing on 3000 screens. I think the year 1967 was a year where the old Hollywood met the new Hollywood. All the studios were very profitable in 1967. Studios such as Fox and MGM were showing profits from the long runs and wide release of both "The Sound of Music" and "Dr Zhivago". MGM enjoyed the re-release of "Gone With The Wind" on a roadshow reserved seat which was a huge hit. Attendance had climbed in 1967. Starting in 1968-1970 the studios started releasing one big budget bomb after another with a few exceptions. The following movies almost forced the studios out of business,"Star","Hello Dolly",On a Clear Day,Paint Your Wagon,Darling Lili,Goodbye Mr Cips,Sweet Charity,Ice Station Zebr,Finean's Rainbow and many more. This period pretty much killed the movie musical for more than 30 years.brucec

There have been countless articles about what killed the movie musical and the best arguement is that it was "The Sound of Music." Now, now...all you "Sound of Music" fans, don't get your panties in a bind over that statement. It's not a reflection on that film. Whether you like it or not is a matter of taste. It's what the studios saw in the HUGE $$$$ that movie made. Instead of creating interesting, thought provoking adult musicals like they did in the 30's, 40's and 50's along with the family fare musicals, the studios sank all their money into rather nauseating family musical films like the ones you cite above (and you left out "Song of Norway" and "Half a Sixpence"). The end result was a flood of awful, family oriented musicals. And their collective awful-ness completely turned the movie going public against this kind of movie. In addition, the "new American wave" of movies was beginning which also didn't help this kind of stuff.

I'm just curious: re-reading Warren's synopsis above dated Feb 13, 2004 of the Roxy's final downfall. When the final first run movie ended it's run, was there ANY outcry from the public over it's closing? Was there any notice or discussion...ANYTHING??? Articles in the Times or any other paper telling people about it? Or did the public simply not care (in general, I mean. I assume some people did care...) I remember my Mother saying that she nearly cried the day she heard the Roxy was destroyed. She said she never expected it to go away. She thought it would last forever. Then she got another shock when Pennsylvania Station was demolished. Again, she thought it could never be destroyed....

What killed movie musicals(and roadshow pictures in general) in the late 1960's was twofold: the decline of the many urban downtowns and the rise of X-rated pictures. In 1969 & 1970, it was not unusual to see theaters showing films like Vixen, Fanny Hill, Female Animal, Midnight Cowboy, Succubus, and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls(all of which were released with an X-rating) simply because they made more profit for theater owners (and in some instances, X-rated films were the only draw to downtown theaters after dark). Some of the theaters would wind up showing XXX product within another 2-3 years due to the popularity of films such as Deep Throat and The Devil in Miss Jones.

The roadshow reserved seat movie was at its height in the mid 1960's. Every studio wanted to produce two event films with large budgets released on a long run basis so the studio could receive profits over a long period of time.I remember Radio City wanted Fiddler on the Roof for there holiday attraction but United Artists wanted the Rivoli for a long run. Fiddler was the last successful Roadshow presentation in the early 1970's.The studios had so many large big budget flops between 1968-1970 that the studios gave up on the reserved seat roadshow film. After 1970 the average budget at MGM and Warner Bros dropped to 1.5 million things were so bad."Love Story" released in 1970 saved Paramount and was produced on a small budget.Paramount during this period tried to sell the studio lot to the cemetery next door. MGM sold off its back lots and held a huge studio auction selling off its props,sets and costumes.Every studio was in bad shape except Columbia and Disney. Then Columbia got in trouble a couple of years later and was saved by Ray Stark.Columbia sold off its studio lot and moved to the Warner Bros lot and the studio was renamed the Burbank Studios. The studios at this time thought the youth market and low budget films that didn't require a studio lot was the way to go, like "Easy Rider". I remember when Paramount was going to make the "Godfather" with a budget of 6 million the studio was nervous. The Godfather became the biggest hit in Paramount history and played many exlusive runs downtown in 1972.It broke records at the Savoy(Opera HOUse} in Boston,the Chicago Theatre in the loop,the Fox in Downtown Philidelphia,Loew's State 1 in NYC,Paramount in Hollywood and the Village in Westwood. As the studios release patterns got wider and wider through the years there was no longer the need for the deluxe movie theatres that played exclusive run films.The Roxy was just to large to house the big roadshow films of the 1960's.The Capitol reduced its seating in 1960 to become a Cinerama roadshow house. Radio City was a rare example and became a modern day presentation showcase that lasted until 1967-68 until it could no longer book the major films which were no longer family oriented,and went into a steady decline. Julie Andrews who had been the number 1 box office attraction since the mid 1960's was washed up in films by 1970 and would only make the "Tamarind Seed" in 1974 and "10" in 1979. The women in film fared very badly after 1970, only Barbra Streisand and Jane Fonda were considered box office for most of the 1970's. Most of the stars and directors produced from the studio system weren't able to get a job after 1970. The old Hollywood was dead and the new Hollywood was born. I remember a line from Mickey Rooney who said the old Hollywood had died but wasn't given its last rights.The old MGM with help of Kirk Kerkorian was reduced to a meow by 1970 and released its last big budget film David Lean's "Ryans Daughter".Hollywood was a disaster area during this time it was television that kept many of studio lots going.brucec

What was the dimensions of the Roxy's Cinemascope screen? I always felt their screen was longer in length than the Radio City Music Halls'. Also the Roxy's had a curvature for Cinemascope; while the Music Halls's screen screened almost flat. Maybe it was just an illusion. However, the RCMH's screen looked higher than the Roxy's. I can't find the dimensions of the Roxy's screen for Cinemascope; yet the Music Hall screen's dimensions are given on this website. Does anybody know?

I don't know where else to post this, in the 60's we saw Cinerama films "How The West Was Won" and "2001: A Space Odyssey". They were both at a Cinerama Theatre but I can't remember the name, can you help ?

Hi Myron:

Both those movies played in Cinerama at the Loew's Capitol in New York. It was on Broadway between 50th and 51st Sts. When "How the West Was Won" played there, it was known as the Loew's Cinerama, but it later reverted to its original name, the Capitol. It was torn down and replaced by an office tower in 1968.

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/522/

MEMORIES OF A ROXY USHER (1950-1954)
I started there as an usher , hired by Chernof at 35 cents per hour. We had to go through a training class and learn a manual. The manual was devoted to How many seats are there? How many Lightbulbs are there in the Crystal Chand in the Routonda? How do they replace the light bulbs or clean it.

SOME OF THE MOVIES THAT PLAYED THERE WHILE I WAS THERE
Prince Valiant
Titanic ( Clifton Webb)
Theres No Business Like Show Business
With a Song In My Heart ( Jane Froman story)
Bus Stop ( Marilyn Monroe classic)
What Price Glory ( Dan Dailey and James Cagney)
12 Mile Reef ( Robert Wagner)
Peter Pan
The Thief ( Silent Movie)
The Robe ( and start of a new sound system and Ice Stage)
Gentlemen Perfer Blondes
Three Coins In The Fountain
Rains of Ranchipur

STAFF OF THE ROXY
Sydney Katz ( Managing Director)
Arthur Knoor ( Producer)
Bob Bouche ( Orchestra Leader)
William ( Big Bill) Moclair ( General Manager)
Jack Galloway
Steve Banovich
Zeke Miller ( all Assistant Managers)
Al Kaufman ( Captain of Ushers)
Don O'Connell ( Chief of Staff)
Mr. Levy ( Concession Manager)
Mr. Levy (2) who sold programs and dolls for each performance at the main lobby.

SOME ADDITIONAL SERVICE STAFF NAMES
Al Frick
Connie Wagner
Suzie Mc Cluskey
Mary Ann Tenbrink
Charlie Roe
Ray Beckett ( another Captain)
Gladys Sweeney
Bob Myers
Don Pollack ( another Captain)
Lynn Fradnick

The Roxy closed down for two weeks to install the Ice Stage and run tests of the new sound system. I remember sitting in the orchestra when they ran the tests and had movies of racing cars, with the sound startig at one side of the theater and going around to the other side.

I also remeber standing for inspection by the Captains at the time, checking to make sure that our shoes were shined, hair trimmed, and white gloves were white. We then started a formation in the upper balcony and marched down the rotunda staircase and took our positions. We also wore cardboard dickeys for the front of our shirts and white cardboard cuffs. this would cover out tee shirts. We had our own tailer who cleaned the uniforms ( as shown in pictures of the staff in other parts of this site)

IN THE STAGE SHOW AREA

I remember the UNITED STATES MARINE CORP BAND coming through the Orchestra Doors and down the Aisles to the main stage.I also remember some names of the stars that appeared TONY BENNET, THE HARMONICATS, ELLIOT REED, ROCHESTER, KAY STARR, MEL TORME, just to name a few. They were all gracious and gave autographed photographs ( Oh where are they now... the pictures)

Most of all I remember the beautiful building that I had the pleasure of working in, the Chinese Restaurant across from the Stage Door as well as the Greek Diner. Also remember being a House Checker where we went out every four hours to the Movie Theaters on Broadway and estimated the number of patrons.Of seeing On The Waterfront, as well as Judy Garlands Farewell at the Palace.

THOSE TRULY WERE THE DAYS.

Roxydon, Thanks for the post, it gave me chills. What wonderful memories, you make it sound like it was just yesterday....
If only it were. Please keep posting, your writing is what this web site is all about.

Thanks for the kind words. Have sent my post to other ushers and usherettes who were there when I was. Maybe they will post their memories.

My mother remembers seeing "Picnic" at the Roxy, is her memory correct?

No, "Picnic" was shown at Radio City Music Hall. Perhaps your mother has it confused with another William Holden movie, "Love Is a Many Splendored Thing," which did play at the Roxy.

That's one of her favorite movies and I think she said she saw that there also. I guess the years mixes alot of things up. It shows how memorable theatres were in addition to the films that they showed. Nobody will remember twenty years from now seeing The Aviator at Cineplex Chelsea Cinemas.

I just remembered it's the Clearview Chelsea Cinemas.

As I recall, Columbia and RCMH agreed on a two picture deal of
"Picnic" and "Eddie Duchin Story" playing back to back.

Vito for some reason I recall the Eddie Duchin Story playing at the Roxy not at RCMH. I could be wrong after all its been a few years.

"Picnic" began a five-week run at RCHM on 16 Feb '56, and "Duchin" played at RCMH for seven weeks beginning on 22 June '56.

Concurrently, the Roxy was showing "Carousel" (16 Feb, eight weeks) and "The King and I" (28 June, nine weeks).

Vito through Box Office Bill's efforts I stand corrected. I remember having the album from the movie and thought it came from the Roxy. Thanks for the correction

RoxyDon--Thanks for acknowleding my research. It was a sweat-free effort: the info comes from "The NY Times Directory of the Film," ed. Arthur Knight, Arno Press/Random House, 1971, an index to the first six volumes of the complete multi-volume "NY Times Film Reviews," currently compiled through the early 1990s. It's cool to know that you were ushering at the Roxy when I saw a bunch of films there as a kid--betcha we encountered each other!

I did research and found that the Hotel Taft, the neighbor of the Roxy was demolished,too, if that's any consolation. It has been replaced by a new hotel, "The Michelangelo"!

The Hotel Taft has not been demolished. It's just renamed "The Michaelangelo". I know because I work right next to it. The TGIFridays resides where the entrance lobby to the Roxy was. In old photographs, you can clearly see the moorish arches above the entrance that are still there.

Actually, I have no idea what the hell the building is used for. I think part of it is the Michaelangelo. Other parts of it seem to be used for apartments or something.

How did the Music Hall and the Roxy compare in boxoffice during the Golden Era into the mid 1950's. I noticed the Music Hall played a lot of MGM product during the 1950's and the Roxy showed mostly Fox films. It seemed the Roxy was more progressive in 1950's than the Music Hall,when Hollywood developed the wide screen format.I would also like to hear how the theatres compared in film presentaion and what theatre was more enjoyable to watch a film.I know the Music Hall had the better stage presentations by the comments I have read.I would love to hear your comments.brucec

As I recall, the Music Hall always out-grossed the Roxy, even when both were running "hit" movies. If you're doing, for example, 4 complete shows per day, that's roughly 24,000 seats to fill, and the Music Hall had the advantage of being a "tourist attraction." I think that the Roxy was patronized mainly by locals. Most of the tourists that went there were probably turn-aways from the Music Hall.

Brucec,I would have to agree with Warren. As a tourists, the Music Hall was high on the must see list of attractions to see. I don't ever remember seeing lines at The Roxy that compared to those wraped around RCMH. Of course the Christmas shows were on everyones santa list, including us locals. One of the few exceptions was when
"The Robe" played the Roxy, everyone flocked to see
CinemaScope "the Miracle you could see with glasses".
AS to film presentation, I always felt the CinemaScope screen and stereo sound at the Roxy was more impressive than RCMH. I was always bothered by the echo watching movies at RCMH.

The Music Hall also had better "clearance" than the Roxy. The Music Hall movies were exclusive for quite a wide radius, and sometimes for the entire USA. Starting in the late 1940s, the movies at the Roxy could also be found at suburban theatres on Eastern Long Island (the nearest being in Glen Cove), New Jersey and Connecticut. This was not acknowledged in newspaper advertising for the Roxy. You would only know about it if you lived in the area of those suburban theatres.

You're right about "clearance." As a kid visiting family in Quincy MA in the late '40s and early '50s, I remember a billboard at the local train station (the Red Line to Boston) advertising current attractions at RCMH ("Look For the Silver Lining," "On the Town," "Sunset Boulevard") in the usual austere format (no pictorials, except for an abstract sketch of the proscenium arch and a single Rockette) with a starred notice: "Now playing at RCMH. Coming soon to Boston."

I've got to agree with Vito about better screen and sound at the Roxy. Its screen was a tad smaller (60' seems about right), but it was gently curved, and the projection was sharp as a tack. And its stereo sound was perfect. On the RCMH page at this site, I've remarked about horizontal lines on its screen where the panels joined (and on a resolutely flat screen, too), along with a persistent echo (especially in a less-than-full house) and evident lack of magnetic stereophonic sound. Fly space at RCMH was too narrow for a curved screen and a multiple sound system. But because the Roxy sacrificed fly space for its film presentation, its stage shows offered fewer elaborate sets and a more static display. Win some, lose some.

I find the above comment about RCMH being a tourist destination and The Roxy not being one very interesting.

My Mother (a Manhattan native) always said she preferred The Roxy. She loved RCMH but spoke very fondly of The Roxy. Because she was a native NY-er, I think this fits into Warren's description.

But why was this so? I know it's pointed out that RCMH got exclusives but there must've been some other reason why a building as grand as the Roxy got second billing after RCMH. My Mother said that The Roxy was truly grand and opulent whereas RCMH was more austere (art deco) and had "clean-lines".

Just curious on everyone's thoughts. Did RCMH advertise more to tourists or something also?

RCMH had the good luck of being the last of its kind to arrive. It was never surpassed, whereas predecesors like the Strand, Capitol, Paramount, and Roxy were "tops" only until the next phenomenon came along. I don't have boxoffice statistics for the opening of RCMH, but I know that when the Roxy first opened, attendance at the other big theatres dropped substantially and rarely or never returned to their former high levels.

There was a truly lame "Modern Marvels" program on the History Channel last Thursday evening about Times Square. My mouth salivated at the thought (before it started) that they would at least dwell in part on the great movie palaces in Times Square. But lo and behold, the program barely discussed the item touching upon it ever so briefly and never ONCE discussing any particular theater by name except for The Hippodrome(??!!) and showing still photographs of The State and some semi-interesting photos of The Capitol and The Rivoli. The stupid ass thing about it was that they showed the photographs but did not identify the theaters by name. Only because of this site did I know what I was looking at.

Why hasn't someone done a documentary on the movie houses of NYC? You'd think PBS could do something amazing with it. The Roxy alone sounds like it could make a fascinating documentary. That's just me, of course.

To illustrate the comparative popularity of the Roxy and RCMH, one might ask why it took so long for the Roxy to be listed here? RCMH was the 55th theatre to be listed, and the Roxy the 556th.

RCMH is still going (whether strong or not is arguable). People (NY-ers, tourists, etc) know the place by name whether they've been in NY or not.

The Roxy? It's more of a legend than a reality for most people. What other NY theaters were posted here before The Roxy?

The Roxy is what brought me to this site in the first place due to my parent's descriptions of the place.

On the RCMH page yesterday, SimonL evoked the "Ave Maria" chorales that the Roxy had offered (inconsistently) in their Christmas shows. He rightly questioned my recall of that presentation with the screening of "Anastasia" in '57. But since after twenty-eight years I recently opened my sealed storage-box of programs and playbills from the '50s and '60s, I'll act badly and quote from the souvenir of that show.

It was an expanded program celebrating the first anniversary of return of the Roxy's stage shows, which had been suspended since CinemaScope overtook the proscenium in '53 ("The Robe," et al.). The show was titled "Wide Wide World Holiday," and Sandy Szabo, who last 10 October wrote on this page that she had skated at the Roxy, is listed among the Ice Roxyettes. It began with a segue from the Fox Movietone Newsreel, in which the then ubiquitous television personality Dave Garroway congratulated the theater's Managing Director Robert C. Rothafel for his wisdom in resuming the live presentations. Next followed "the Roxy Orchestra under the baton of Robert Boucher and the Roxy Caroleers under the direction of Robert Nicholson" [at this point might it have been possible that the latter intoned "Ave Maria"? I remember this chorale from shows past, but might have transposed it here?].

Segment #2 was called "Happiness Street--Anywhere, U.S.A." and it enlisted "the entire ensemble featuring the Ice Roxyettes" along with the Caroleers, first in a number entitled "Song to a Star," and then in a number (confounding Cole Porter, Mary Martin, and Eartha Kitt) entitled "My Heart Belongs to Santa Baby," the latter "introducting Miss Mae Edwards . . .a 1957 Chrvrolet Corvette . . . Manuel Del Toro [the lead male skater] . . . the Roxy Blades [the male skating corps] and Paula Newland, vocalist." My memory of this scene goes quietly blank.

Segment #3 was called "Three Spots of Cheer" and it featured the Roxyettes, Blades, and Caroleers "in a holiday visit to Merrie London Town and Holand and . . . a touch of 'Christmas in Killarney.'" Here my visual recall summons an image of those snow villages that you place on train sets at this time of year, with appropriate Victorian, Dutch, and Gaelic touches.

Segment #4 was called "The Bruises" and offered "holiday hilarity and nonsensical fun!" Clowns on skates, no doubt: don't hold me to it.

Segment #4, "Winter Blossom Time," introduced, with thanks to Eastman Kodak, "the scenic presentation of the innovation known as 'SpectaColor.'" I recall that the latter was a gigantic projection device, like a 35 mm home-slide-show pumped up to unimaginable dimensions. Its three numbers were comprised of "The Jingle Belles of Ming in Fan Fare" with Miss Edwards, the Roxyettes, and Caroleers (hazy memories of the Tibetan Roof, Chongqing, Suzhou, the Great Wall, and the like), "Love Is a Many Splendored Thing" with Miss Edwards and the Blades (the program notes "with apologies to the Kabuki and Noh plays of Japan": but why apologize?), and "Geisha Gaiety" with "the entire ensemble in a holiday celebration." Here SimonL recalls a striking image of Japan's Matsumoto mountain as the curtain fell.

Two notes: (1)The Christmas film at RCMH that year was "Sayonara," and the co-incidental Japanese thematics conveys a whiff of the rivalry that those theaters pitched coyly at the time. (2) The following year, Kodak photographed the Rockettes in their Christmas routine accompanying "Auntie Mame" (my Showplace program for the week of 4 Dec. '58 calls the number "Rocket to the Moon"). That enormous photomural was then put on exhibit at Grand Central Terminal, and in Dec. '61 was returned to the stage of RCMH as a self-referential backdrop for the Rockettes who were clad in the same outfits they had worn for the picture. By that time, as we all know, the Roxy had been razed, with a scant remainder of Kodak moments to remind us of what it had been.

Oops--a gremlin crept into my preceding note. Not "Sayonara" but "Teahouse of the August Moon" was the Christmas film at RCMH concurrent with "Anastasia" at the Roxy. But, hey, both of those films are set in Asia (and both would have pitted Brando against Bergman), so: point made (though I should have said "Asian thematics" in the above post). Gaffes like this will erode my credibility.

Bill, for a moment, while reading your notes I was able to forget the troubles of the world, travel thru time, and imagine myself watching the grand curtain rise at RCMH to the MGM logo on "Teahouse" and hear the Fox Fanfare at the Roxy for "Anastasia". Thanks for that.

If I recall correctly, the movie version of "Anastasia" took place in Paris and Copenhagen in the late 1920s. The original play was set in Berlin...A musical stage adaptation, entitled "Anya," was the last attraction to play the first Ziegfeld Theatre before its demolition.

The closest I ever got to the Roxy was seeing the incredibly detailed scale model of its auditorium on display at the American Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, Queens, NY. Even in miniature form it looks like one of the grandest theaters that ever existed.

CC Connolly is right, the Taft Hotel was not demolished but re-named as the Michelangelo. I passed by this week and it does look the same. It's very depressing to remember all the good times we spent at the Roxy. By the way, the Roxy didn't always offer a live show with the film. They were in competition with the RCMH, so had no choice. We often strolled over to the Roxy if the Music Hall's line was too long. I preferred the Roxy because I preferred films from 20th Century-Fox and loved the Alfred Newman Cinemascope fanfare. Also, I felt the Roxy had a more attractive marquee, while the RCMH had an art-decor marquee. Which theatre had better popcorn, I don't remember.

As Myron cites above, the Taft hotel is still there. Where the entrance was to the Roxy is now where the TGIFridays is.

My question to all of you Roxy people, was the ticket area to the Roxy very low and narrow? I seem to recall that my Mother told me that it was almost claustrophobic but it then opened up into a huge space. You have to wonder if it was intentionally done this way to create a sense of drama.

Also, if the Roxy used part of the Taft Hotel's lobby for their box office/entrance, did they have to pay rent? Just curious...

Re: the lobby area of Roxy

Actually, in spite of the differences in architectural styles, I think the lobby area of RCMH and the Roxy are actually quite similar.

Both of them sit beneath a skyscraper that is separate and apart from the theater itself. In the case of the Roxy, the building was a hotel; in the case of RCMH it is an office building with an entrance on, I believe, Sixth Ave. (just to the north of the entrance to RCMH itself).

In both cases the theater patron goes from a long, relatively low, lobby/ticket area into a vast and grand theater lobby. In the case of RCMH the lobby space is rectangular and goes across the block. In the case of the Roxy, I believe it was oval - which was a clever way for the architect to mask the fact that the auditorium itself was not parallel to the street it fronted on, but was at a angle (to make the most of a relatively small plot of land).

In both cases, having a skyscraper over the ticket lobby area is a way of optimizing the value of the land. The lobby/ticket area of a theater is pretty much the only part of a theater overwhich one can economically build another structure. (Interestingly, it appears that the builders of that grand movie place in Atlanta, for example, had no need to maximize the value of their land in this way. From the illustrations I've seen they only have stores to the left and right of the lobby/ticket area -- but no office building above.

Don't know what the arrangement was between the Roxy and the Taft, but both of them seem to have exteriors built in the same style. So my guess is that they were built together -- pehaps by the same owner who then leased or sold off the parts? For a similar arrangement look at what was once the Hotel Manhattan (don't remember if that's its current name) on Eighth Ave. It was built by the same builder and in the same architectural style as the Majestic Theater (44th St.), the Golden and Royale Theaters (45th Sts.). The theaters all share a common service alley way on 45th St. that used to be open but is not gated off.

By the way, I think the Michealangelo is some sort of condo/corporate hotel. I think big corporations own apartments there where they put up workers visiting from other places. For instance, I once temped at a fabric company (in the building just across the street to the north) that housed an employee from North Carolina who was temporarily assigned to a project at the New York office.

Re: Popularity / fame of Roxy vs. RCMH -- some additional thoughts

Interesing question. I agree that the fact that one was demolished "ages" ago is part of the reason. Also think that the clean lines of RCMH makes it more distinctive -- especially among movie palaces! -- and also more "photogenic" (i.e., a beauty that easily comes across in photos).

Also think that the Roxy interior was maybe more overwhelming for being "gargantuan" than for being visually engaging. (Personally, I think as a kid I was my fascinated by spectacular "themed" theaters, like the Loew's atmospherics, than by the Roxy.

Also, RCMH was the newer and "better" theater -- after all didn't Roxy himself(!) forsake the Roxy for the Roxy Center and Radio City Music Hall. So, I guess, people may have just seen the Roxy as being a bit old hat.

(Interestingly, I think it was generally believed that RCMH was the largest theater in the world (which would certainly have added luster to its image) although maybe the Roxy was the larger of the two? -- not to mention other theaters that also might have been larger than either of them. So maybe RCMH also had a better press department?

Plus RCMH is part of a large and famous group of buildings -- and that probably also helped.

I wish those commenting on the ROXY building would go to the trouble of looking at photos of it and the extensive description given in what is probably the single largest writing about it: the 1961 landmark book, "The Best Remaining Seats: The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" by the late Ben M. Hall. It is available at most large libraries or they can order it for you via Inter-Library Loan. It can even be purchased in any of three editions at such as www.Amazon.com Therein will be seen on pages 3 and 79ff, that the five floors above the ticket lobby were devoted to offices of the theatre, and not to the adjacent Taft hotel, then called the Manger. As explained in the book, the hotel did own the land under the lobby areas, so when the newly remodeled Taft wanted the land under the Roxy, it merely declined to renew the lease. Since the Roxy was then in the 50s not exactly prospering with first run films, it was likely a good deal for the Roxy's owners to be able to not have to pay the lease any longer, and also to sell all the remainder of the land with the provision that the theatre be razed. Once again, the soaring land value under a theatre determined its fate, as money always will.

Yes, the ticket lobby was a low ceiling area, and yes, it was no doubt partially for the 'gee whiz' effect of then proceeding into the "Rotunda" and all its vast glory, but it was also practical since the Roxy had the room to allow building five floors above the ticket lobby and adjacent low ceiling areas to create the space for offices, mechanical room and ushers' lockers. It is the windows for these rooms that one sees in the page 3 photo. See the cross section drawing on page 82. The Roxy like many theatres used the space above the entry for a Musician's gallery and in its case also the console of a pipe organ, something for which there was precious little room at the floor level, what with perhaps thousands waiting in the huge Oval (actually, an ellipse) for the next show. MARQUEE magazine of the Theatre Historical Soc. has many other photos to verify this.

To follow on Benjamin's comments: "[I] also think that the clean lines of RCMH makes it more distinctive -- especially among movie palaces! -- and also more "photogenic" (i.e., a beauty that easily comes across in photos)." This comment ignores the fact that different owners of the hotel and the Roxy were faced with the common dilemma facing any builder: you can't control what the neighbor's building does, or will, look like and how that impacts one's own building. The Roxy was built to communicate its lavish decor on the exterior, but the existing Manger hotel was not about to redesign itself to address the advent of the Roxy with its more ornate exterior, the two structures having much different purposes. Thus the Roxy may not have been "sleek" as the RCMH done in a different style in a sky scraper structure would be, but it did have the visual distinctiveness amid other nearby buildings to set it apart form them, as most any theatre tries to do.

"[I] also think that the Roxy interior was maybe more overwhelming for being "gargantuan" than for being visually engaging. (Personally, I think as a kid I was my fascinated by spectacular "themed" theaters, like the Loew's atmospherics, than by the Roxy." If one prefers 'atmospherics' (the 'stars and clouds' theatres of the 20s) then it is understandable that one would not see anything wonderful in the Roxy, which was diametrically the opposite, or 'hard top' school of decor. I find the photos of the Roxy's interior to reveal a very engaging interior, perhaps not the most artistic and memorable on all levels, but certainly overwhelming if for no other reason than vastness. True, it may not actually have had the vaunted "6000" seats that the RCMH has, but it was indeed vast and "gargantuan" from most any other theatrical definition of the term. One reading of the book will take on into its luxurious appointments and let one see that it had almost all the appointments of the Music Hall without a gleaming complex of buildings to surround and enframe it.

Some may have seen the Roxy as "old hat" when the Music Hall opened, but Roxy himself did not abandon it. As related in the book, he was forced out by new owners who were desperately trying to cut costs as the Depression was descending. Roxy was invited to help with the RCMH opening and it was publicized as having this 'master' at hand, and no doubt with a very nice salary to boot, but it seems that he did not get a private box there as he did at the Roxy. When any new theatre opened in those days, there was a concentrated effort to mine the press for maximum publicity, and with the Rockefeller's fortune behind them, the Music Hall did indeed have the press department it needed to make it seem to eclipse all previous 'palaces' even though it never termed itself that. The Hall might have been said to 'stand upon the shoulders' of its many predecessors, and would have done anything to make other theatres seem 'old hat' if for no other reason than to ensure patronage which means profits, the purpose for which it was built.

I admire both theatres for what they were and see no competition between them in memory, though of course, the Music Hall can today dismiss the Roxy as merely an inflated memory if it wishes. Those of us who study theatre history will always know otherwise.

The Ben Hall book, "The Best Remaining Seats," is indeed a fantastic source of info about the Roxy. And, it is one example of a discussion about movie palaces where the Roxy is actually "numero uno" (written about more extensively than any other theater) while RCHM hardly even rates a mention! Just the other day I was thinking that one might almost consider this book to be an ode to the Roxy, as the extensive Roxy material appears to be the centerpiece of the book. I don't have my copy of the book here with me at work, but will, of course, look at it again when I get home.

Although the Roxy may have used the first five floors above the ticket lobby for theatrical purposes, the building above the ticket lobby was still essentially part of the hotel's structure -- at least that's the impression that I had from general reading of the book, from walks by the hotel post-Roxy demolition and from a general understanding of the way New York City "works." And it's not all that uncommon for one use in one structure to "infiltrate" another use in another structure. For instance when Barney's clothing store was on 17th(?) St., it expanded into (among other structures) a neighboring apartment house -- remodeling apartments in the apartment house to be an extension of its sales floor, fitting rooms and administrative offices. Also I think part of Radio City Music Hall may have also extended into the office building above the ticket lobby portion of RCMH.

As to "why" these things are done: I believe in the Carol Krinsky book on Rockefeller Center she too mentions "effect" as a partial reason for a low ticket lobby -- but in this case the reference is to the "low" ceilinged lobby of RCMH. But practically speaking, I think it's very rare -- perhaps even unheard of -- for any auditorium in Manhattan to NOT have any office space (or something similiar) above the ticket lobby. So to some degree it also seems to be a question of how much office space, administrative space or hotel rooms the theater's builders are going to allow to be "displaced" by a "uselessly" high ticket lobby.

I think my comments about the clean lines of RCMH may have been misunderstood. Actually I was talking mostly about the clean lines of the interiors (especially the sunburst auditorium) that make the theater very unusual for a "movie" palace -- and thus rather distinctive. I think these interiors probably make RCMH more "photogenic" -- especially to the modern day tastes of the general public at large.

Regarding the exteriors -- it seems to me from photographs that the Hotel Taft's exteriors somewhat MATCH those of the Roxy. This is one of the reasons I think that the same corporate builder may have been involved in both. (The exteriors of the Hotel Manhattan, the Majestic, the Golden and the Royale -- which indeed had the same corporate parent -- also, similarly, "match.") While at the time of the Roxy's demolition, the ticket lobby area (as well as, of course, the Roxy facilities in the hotel structure above the ticket lobby) were apparently owned by someone else, I wonder if this was true when they were constructed?

While, I will have to keep an eye out for info on the construction of the hotel, it seems to me that the that kind of hotel structure is of the same era as that of the Roxy -- another reason that it appears to me that there may have been some sort of corporate connection between the Roxy and the hotel.

With regard to the aesthetics of the interior of the Roxy: ". . . perhaps not the most artistic and memorable at all levels, but certainly overwhelming if for no other reason that vastness." If I understand this comment correctly, this is close to my point: that the effect of the Roxy largely depended upon being overwhelmed by its size when you were inside it.

While technically speaking, Roxy may not have "abandoned" the Roxy but been forced out, if the Roxy theater were a "first" wife she would have had good grounds for divorce because of Roxy's "unfaithfulness" with the two much younger and more stylish young beauties he was having "an affair" with. I think this is closer to how the general public may have seen Roxy's relationship with the original Roxy.

I hope I didn't come across as being "anti" Roxy. I was just trying to add some more reasons to those already given as to why RCMH may have had (if it indeed did have) a higher profile than the Roxy.

I get the feeling from the discussion of the Roxy vs Music Hall that the Music Hall had the better stage shows and the Roxy has the better film presentation. The Music Hall grossed more than the Roxy with a couple of exceptions becuase it was a tourist attraction and it had the Rockettes. I get the feeling that Ben Hall preferred the Roxy over the Music Hall as an all around movie palace.The Roxy was built at the height of the movie palace boom where the Music Hall was built at the tail end during the great depression.The Roxy played many of the same films as the Chinese in Hollywood since they were both flagship houses for 20th Century Fox. Hollywood's greatest film studio Loew's MGM was divorced by 1960 and movies greatest movie palace the Roxy was demolished in 1960. It was the end of an era and the start of the demolition derby of our great movie palaces.brucec

Some really heartfelt writing here. Thanks, guys.

How wonderful to remember the Roxy and the Radio City Music Hall. I believe the Music Hall always had the stage show in the 50's and 60's with the film, so my mother, may she rest in peace, always preferred RCMH, no matter what the film. As a young kid, I didn't appreciate the live stage show; and I preferred the Roxy. Later on, the Roxy added a live show with the "Roxyettes" ice skaters. I believe it started with "Carousel" in CinemaScope 55. I know there was no live show with "The Robe". I always thought the Roxy's screen was wider but the Music Hall's screen was higher. Both theatres were wondrous when you compare them to the cineplexes of today with small screens, no curtains, no live shows, a zillion commercials, over-priced refreshments. The good ole days!

I would have to agree with saps, thanks very much for the insitefull writing. Oh, and by the way myron, I too loved hearing the Fox fanfare at the Roxy, and the popcorn question is easy to answer, RCMH never allowed popcorn be sold there.

Benjamin mentions that Ben Hall's book was essentially an ode to the Roxy, and in that he is essentially right (it is a standard literary tool to select a subject to be the focus of a book so as to make the narrative more personal and relevant to the reader), but it might surprise him to know that while I will defend the Roxy if necessary, it was and is not my favorite movie palace. It was a themed decor if by that one means that the decor can be realistically identified as of a particular period, as opposed to mere 'anonymous' or eclectic ornament to create a modest attempt at decor, such as was characteristic of most opera houses. The Roxy's decor was basically Spanish Baroque, but it, like virtually all movie palaces, was not pure and depended upon a liberal interpretation of any theme designation. RCMH, in contrast, was a more pure theme, in that it was an Art Deco/Art Moderne interpretation not dependent upon styles of ornament to define it. For this reason and others, it is probably best that one not describe the Music Hall as being a movie palace, even if its erection did realistically mark the end of that era, coincidentally. The Music Hall really falls into a class of its own, not only due to its gargantuan size, but also due to the show policy that it promoted and then succeeded in delivering for longer than many true movie palaces/presentation houses existed! It could be called a "Presentation House" by virtue of its performances with films, but it is really more in the category of a 'Pagentorium,' (my own coinage for lack of a better term), a less populated class of specialty structures such as the OLYMPIA in London of 1911, though such structures may be more akin to the Civic Auditorium class than theatres. Note Simon Tidworth's photo of this on page 198 of his excellent book: "Theatres: An Architectural and Cultural History," Praeger Publishers, London and New York, 1973. (He makes the sad statement on his page 187: "The interwar years belong to the cinema, an architectural romance in its own right, but one that regretfully cannot be told here.")

Too much speculation about the Roxy's ownership and that of the land beneath it would be counterproductive, so I suggest that Benjamin or any other New Yorkers interested in this matter go to the Register of Deeds or such other local office as contains the records of legal land ownership and contracts for constructions, to determine once and for all who owned the land in question and whether or not there was a legal tie between the hotel and theatre owners. This may be tedious research, but history is founded on finding facts such as these. Date of construction of the original hotel should also be there, along with its chain of ownership through the years. Who knows but that Roxy himself may be mentioned among the documents. If any reader is in the Chicago area, the collection of author Ben Hall is maintained at the Theatre Historical Soc. headquarters outside of Chicago (www.HistoricTheatres.org) and one might go to their Archive to see if Mr. Hall had retained any such records.

My copy of the Ben Hall book, "Best Remaining Seats," is a Bramhall House (div. of Clarkson Potter, Inc.) edition from the mid-1970s. Although I was able to find the photos referenced in Jim's post, I read them very differently and hope that those interested get a chance to look at the Hall book, especially the following pages: pg. 128, for what appears to me to be a modified "plan" of the first floor of the Roxy; pgs.82-83 (unnumbered), for what appears to me to be a loosely done "section" of the theater; and pg. 90, for a loose equivalent of an "elevation" of the proposed theater.

While there are also some good photos, including a photo of the Roxy's main entrance on opening night (pages 2-3, unnumbered), these suffer (for our purposes) from severe foreshortening (the photographs being taken looking down relatively narrow streets).

But looking at the loose equivalents of a "plan," "section" and "elevation" of the Roxy, it seems to me that pretty much only the ticket lobby of the Roxy extended into the hotel next door and that the five floors above the ticket lobby were most probably NOT used by the Roxy Theater -- especially for things like the Usher's Locker Room that is shown on the cutaway section.

Looking at an artist's rendering of the Roxy (pg. 90), which also shows the adjacent hotel structure, and comparing it to the "plan" and "section" one sees that the Roxy facade was divided into three sections:

a very large section on the east (the auditorium itself);

a slightly lower section to the west of that (labeled the "Grande Foyer" on both the plan and the section);

and a yet smaller section, only three windows wide, to the west of that (labeled "Recpt. Hall" on the plan and the "Entrance Hall" on the section).

It is this last section, three windows wide, that appears to me to contain the five floors or so (there is a set back after the "third" story) of ancillary activities that are shown in the cutaway section.

Looking at both the plan and the cutaway section one notices that no ticket lobby whatsoever is being shown on either of them -- the ticket lobby is the long, low area of the theatre that extended into the first floor of the adjacent hotel. In other words, neither the plan nor the section actually choose to show the ticket lobby -- only the artist's rendering, which shows the southern facade of the hotel, shows where the long, low ticket lobby was.

To a smaller extent this also seems to be borne out in the photo of the Roxy's main entrance on opening night. One sees that the floors above the marquee appear to be conventional hotel type rooms -- not rooms being used for the facilities being shown on the cutaway drawing.

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Also, looking through the Hall book (flipping through the pages and using the index) I found no reference to 1) a story that the adjacent hotel choose not to renew the lease of the Roxy Theater's ticket lobby; and 2) no reference to Sam Rothafel being forced out by the "new" owners of the Roxy.

The only reference in the Hall book to Sam Rothafel being force out that I could find was the account of his being forced out of the management of Radio City Music Hall (the last section of the book, "The End of the Dream"). And surprisingly for a book with so much info on the Roxy, I was not able to find any sustained account of how it closed or why it was demolished.

Now the book is very loosely organized, with info about the Roxy, included reprints of various magazine articles, etc., spread (non-chronologically) all throughout the book. So it is possible that I might have missed such accounts.

But in any case, none of the accounts were a major part of the Roxy story in the Hall book -- plus I've discovered accounts elsewhere (more about that latter) that would seem to dispute these versions of Roxy's and the Roxy's history.

I have some additional comments on what I found last night in the Hall book about the Roxy Theater -- plus some interesting relevant info from the Carol Krinsky book ("Rockefeller Center") and the David Loth book ("The City within a City") about Rockefeller Center. But that will have to wait till later.

I'm a little dizzy reading all this.

Vito, you are correct, the Music Hall didn't sell popcorn, according to my sister, whose memory is better than mine and she visited RCMH maybe 50 times. Is it true that the ice-skating Roxyettes was added during the presentation of "Carousel"? Before then, there was no stage show with the Roxy's film; this explains why there were either shorter lines or no lines at all at the Roxy. You would be admitted even in the middle of the film. I also found the Roxy marquee more attractive. It was bright red with changing patterns of neon light, sort of Las Vegas style. How I wish I had a camera then. None of the photos I've seen show the Roxy sign in color at night; they're all in B&W.

The Roxy dropped stage shows starting with the 1953 premiere of "The Robe," apparently in the belief that the new wide-screen process of CinemaScope would be enough to draw crowds. It also gave them the oportunity to have more showings of "The Robe" per day. But as soon as the novelty of CinemaScope wore off, the Roxy had to restore stage shows. I don't know how long that took, but I don't think more than a year. Once revived, the stage shows remained until the Cinemiracle "Windjammer" opened. After that fiasco, stage shows resumed, almost to the time that the Roxy closed.

The Roxy presented stage shows from the day of its opening until 16 Sept '53, when "The Robe" premiered and the theater suspended its live shows. In the late '40s (I'm not sure exactly when), the Roxy had added a small ice stage. It lowered the central stage elevator, flooded and froze the cavity, and used it for skating acts accompanying the conventional stage presentation with the toe-dancing Gae Foster Roxyettes. It called its m and f ice-skaters the Roxy Blades and Belles, and put them before the footlights during summertime shows (perhaps to cool off patrons with the power of suggestion).

I recall seeing two such shows in Summer '48, one accompanying the Dan Dailey musical, "Give My Regards to Broadway," the other accompanying Betty Grable's effort with Ernst Lubitsch, "That Lady in Ermine." The latter's Viennese theme extended into the ice show, with the Blades and Belles performing unseasonable waltzes.

In December '52, the Roxy closed briefly for alterations, shamefully covering up its proscenium's glorious Spanish retablo with a new contour curtain, and also adding an all-ice stage illuminated by neon lights embedded in the permafrost (the display was called "Ice Colorama"). At this point, the feet-on-the-ground Roxyettes became twenty-four ice-skating Roxyettes. The theater initiated this format with that year's Christmas show, headlined by "Stars and Stripes Forever."

All-ice stage shows (without the neon Colorama) resumed with the Christmas show of '55, "The Rains of Ranchipur." A couple of presentations with negligible 20C-Fox films ("The Lieutenant Wore Skirts" and "Bottom of the Bottle") intervened before "Carousel" opened on 16 Feb '56, with an ice show ("Gala Paree") somewhat abbreviated because of the film's longer-than-usual length.

Las Vegas-style neon: yes, that's an apt description, on the stage and on the marquee.

More on Roxy and the Roxy Theater from Ben Hall ("Best Remaining Seats," 1961), David Loth ("The City Within a City," 1966) and Carol Krinsky ("Rockefeller Center," 1978). (As you will see, each writer has a different focus and a different "take." I don't necessarily agree with all the details of any of the versions -- I just thought Cinema Treasure readers would be interested in seeing this info.)

Re: Roxy abandoning the Roxy for the Radio City Theaters (I didn't find any mention in any of the three books about Roxy being forced out of the management of the original Roxy Theater.)

Hall (pg. 252): "What happened to Roxy? In 1930 he had another vision, one that led him another block eastward . . . . The Rockefellers were building their Center, and it in the largest theatre in the world, the International Music Hall."

Loth (pg. 81): "RKO was generally considered to have brought off an admirable coup when they persuaded him to take over the management of the new Music Hall."

Krinsky (pg. 164): "On hearing that the radio group [RKO] planned to join the Rockefeller development, he proposed that he build a rival for his own namesake. The president of NBC [at the time, both NBC and RKO were subsidiaries of RCA, pg. 48, Loth] spoke to Rockefeller who approved of the idea. . . . In April 1931 Roxy announced his affiliation with the Center, having severed his ties to the Roxy Theater."

(pg. 79) (She's discussing why RCMH's management wanted Roxy out in 1933) ". . . perhaps they thought that he was abandoning their sinking ship more quickly than he had abandoned his own Roxy Theater . . . ."

(Although they all agree with each other in fundamental ways, they also all present slightly different versions of what happened!)

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Re: the closing of the Roxy

(I didn't find any mention in any of the three books of the Taft not being willing to renew a lease for the Roxy's ticket lobby.)

Hall: As far as I could see, he doesn't really go into the particulars about the demise of the Roxy -- but he does have a full page reproduction of that wonderful Gloria Swanson photo as the last page of the book.

But regarding the Hotel Taft site, Hall does present what appears to be an apocryphal story -- or sloppily written one -- about how Herbert Lubin (the man who hired Roxy to create the Roxy Theater) originally purchased the land needed to build the Roxy. Hall says that in the spring of 1925 Lubin decided that the Seventh Ave. and 50th St. corner "would be ideal to build his big theater on," asked the agent how much it would cost, and agreed to pay the $3,000,000 on the spot.

The problem with this story is that the corner of Seventh and 50th is where the Roxy's ticket lobby occupied the first floor of the adjoining hotel. Now, there are ways for Hall's version of the story to be true -- say, for instance, if the Roxy leased to the hotel the right to build over the ticket lobby -- but without any further explanation, this story appears to be sloppily written.

Loth: (pgs. 186-187) He mentions that after Rockefeller Center was "complete," the management decided to expand to the other side of Sixth Ave. and began purchasing land there -- first purchasing the land where the Time-Life Building would eventually be built (in 1953) and then purchasing the Roxy Theater, which was the adjacent property to the west (in early 1956?). Originally when they started buying land on the west side of Sixth Ave., they were considering building a TV City with studios for NBC and a skyscraper for Time-Life. But NBC pulled out of the deal before the Roxy was actually purchased.

(pg. 191) "The purpose for which they had bought it was a thing of the past, but they had acquired air and tower rights for the Time & Life Building . . . priced at $2 million. So the Center could afford to be relaxed about the Roxy's fate in the entertainment world.

"Various attempt to revive its old popularity by a couple of lessees, one of whom was Roxy's nephew were short-lived. They even at temped a combination of stage and screen show, but apparently the Radio City Music Hall has a monopoly on success in this field. [Don't know what the author means here; maybe he means attempted to revive a combination of stage and screen show?] Shortly before the Time & Life Building opened (late 1959?), Rockefeller Center had to take over the controls; it was already dickering for an entirely different sort of deal. That deal was consummated in February, 1960, when it was announced that the theater had been sold to Webb & Knapp for an office building . . . ."

Krinsky: (pgs. 111-114) Her version is essentially the same, but again with some differences. "To let the Center build a slab as tall as this one [Time-Life Building] while conforming to the requirements of the Zoning Resolution, Westprop, Inc. a Center subsidiary, had to buy the Roxy Theater immediately to the west, for its air rights. This also guaranteed that no rival tower could abut the new building in the future."

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The Loth and (especially) the Krinksy book also have lots of interesting info (and Krinksy has lots of great photos) about the creation of the Center Theater and Radio City Music Hall. If I get the chance, I will post some of this info on the appropriate site for each of the theaters.

Regarding the reputations and relative popularity of the Roxy vs. Radio City Music Hall:

I was looking through a 1939 guidebook to NYC, the "WPA Guide to NYC," and noticed that the entry for the Roxy is less than five lines long and comes at the end of a paragraph that includes info about the Casa Manana nightclub (across the street from the Roxy) and the Brass Rail restaurant (just south? of the Roxy). This listing is similar to the listings for the other Times Sq. movie palaces: the Strand (3 1/2 lines); the Rivoli (essentially 5 lines); the Capitol (1 1/2 lines); the Continental [Warner Hollywood or Mark Hellinger] (2 1/2 lines).

However the the entry for Radio City Music hall takes up almost an entire page! (It's just two lines short.)

Here's the entry for the Roxy: "The ROXY, Seventh Avenue and Fiftieth Street, is the most elaborate of the first-run motion-picture houses in the Broadway district. The huge oval lobby, highly ornate in its decorations, can accommodate three thousand patrons, about half as many as the auditorium itself. The Roxy opened in 1926, representing an investment of fifteen million dollars."

So it would seem that in 1939, Radio City Music Hall had a much higher profile, and was considered more of a wonder, than the Roxy.

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By the way, another poster mentioned something like the Roxy was of one era and the Radio City Music Hall was of another. While I don't disagree with this -- they do seem to be of two different eras -- isn't it fascinating that these two theaters, representing these two "eras," were built only five and a half years apart! For instance, imagine comparing something that opened on December 27, 2004 with one that opened on March 11, 1999!!!

This says two things to me:

1) They were very tumultuous times! And they were. Just for some quick for instances, in 1927, the year the Roxy opened, I believe NBC and CBS radio networks were also founded. (NYC got its first radio station, WEAF, only in 1922.) And Vitaphone became the rage later on in 1927. Also I think the Paramount and probably many, many more other movie palaces were also built or under construction in 1927.

2) The "old fashioned" architectural style of the Roxy made it seem prematurely "old."

Originally I was thinking this about the Roxy's interiors as being less photogenic, but looking at some of the photos of the Roxy on various websites, I think this is also true of its exterior architectural design.

For one thing it's design does not appear to have aged well, even in a short period of time -- city dirt, grime and soot really "show" on its ornate architecture. But dirt, grime and soot actually form a somewhat attractive "patina" on Radio City Music Hall's (and Rockefeller Center's) sleek modern walls -- or are at least less unattractive in my opinion. (I remember watching them steam clean the walls of Rockefeller Center and at first thinking how wonderful they would look when they were clean. But I was then surprised when my reaction was that it really didn't make that much of a positive difference (the way it did with ornate St. Patrick's), and in a way it seemed to me that something was actually lost. Looking back, I think this is because on the large plain walls of Rockefeller Center, the soot forms kind of a marbelizing pattern on the large plain walls -- "decorating" them in a way with sweeping modernistic dark columns!)

I also noticed that the Roxy had an ENORMOUS, exposed, and very prominent, lot line wall facing busy Sixth Ave. that was left "undesigned" -- it just had some ugly firescapes on it. In contrast Radio City Music Hall facades incorporated its firescapes behind very handsome grilles.

So it's easy for me to see how people can see the Roxy as being "old fashioned" and of a different "era" even though it was built only five and a half years before RCMH!

- - - -

Plus one of the "wonders" of the Roxy was the P.T. Barnum-like Roxy himself and his proto-Disney like obsession with "presentation" -- one can imagine him rather than Disney as coming up with the idea that employees such as ushers and ticket takers were "characters" rather than just employees. So it seems likely to me that when Roxy and his Roxy "magic" left the Roxy Theater for RCMH, some of the air inevitably left the Roxy balloon and it became more of just a very big, ornate theater.

I need to correct an error that I made about the double feature that played the Roxy shortly before its closing in 1960. It was not two Marlon Brando movies, just one, "On the Waterfront," coupled with "The Caine Mutiny," both Columbia re-issues. The booking opened February 24, 1960, accompanied by "new low prices" of 65 cents from opening until noon, 95 cents to 5PM, and $1.25 to closing time. When the first-run "The Wind Cannot Read" opened as a single feature on March 9, the Roxy's price scale was slightly advanced to 90 cents until noon, $1.25 to 5PM, and $1.50 to closing time...When the Roxy finally closed forever on March 29, it was just two days before Radio City Music Hall opened its annual Easter holiday show, which that year consisted of "Please Don't Eat the Daisies" on screen and "Glory of Easter" and "Tulip Time in Holland" as the two-part stage program.

Fascinating discussion above. Loved reading it.

With regards to whether The Roxy or RCMH was "better", let's just leave it that one (The Roxy) is sadly gone and will be missed and the other (RCMH) is still with us and we should be grateful.

BUT....I will always go with what my Mother, born and raised in Manhattan in 1925, felt. The Roxy was better. She loved RCMH but had a soft spot for this great place. The Roxy and her vivid memories and descriptions of the place is what brought me to this great site in the first place.

Both the Roxy and the Radio City Music Hall gave my family pleasure. We can compare them but they both had their own specialties. It's like comparing London, Paris and New York. All these places are/were special. The RCMH had a better value(stage show and film) while the Roxy was more ornate, had a nicer CinemaScope screen, but until "Rains of Ranchipur", had no stage show. In my opinion, the Roxy showed better films; I think they even showed "The Wizard of Oz". I can't find a comprehensive list of films shown at the Roxy. As spomeone pointed-out RCMH screened more family-oriented films, such as "Mary Poppins". The RCMH screen seemed to be flat as opposed to the flat screen of the RCMH according to my memory. I love them both and it breaks my heart when I pass the spot where the Roxy used to be.

Warren it was interesting seeing your post about 1960. I wasn't able to go on my own into NY until '70. At that point the Roxy might as well have the the Colossus at Rhodes. I believe the Rivoli was playing The Stewardesses in 3D, the Criterion was playing Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and the Thanksgiving film Sherlock Holmes at the Hall crashed and burned after two weeks and they had to rush in the Christmas Show. The axis of the earth must have shifted in those ten years. I don't think things change culturally so quickly even today.
However the Hall had a weekday morning admission price of $1.75 and a weekday matinee prime seating on Broadway could be had for $8.00.
Follies, the most lavish(and best produced, I still remember the audience in shock) musical I will ever see, had a top full price of $7.50! Today you cannot even get prime seating for $100 the announced top price. You've got to spend 3 to 5 times as much. And what you get is a golden oldies revue. Insane.

I meant to say the curved CinemaScope screen of the Roxy in my last comment. The curvature gave more depth and enjoyment. It's a matter of taste. If you had noisy people sitting in front of you; neither theatre was a pleasure; often there were no empty seats to change to. We recently attended a Broadway show and the people kept talking and ruined the show for us. Why do people spend over $100 just to talk? This is off-topic, so please forgive me!

To the best of my knowledge, MGM's "The Wizard of Oz" never played at the Roxy. When it first opened in 1939, it was at the nearby Capitol Theatre (see listing here for further details).

You are so right Warren, Oz did indead play at the Capital with Judy Garland appearing opening night.

You must be right. Somebody once told me "The Wizard" played at the Roxy which was strange since they showed mainly 20th Century-Fox Films. Did Shirley Temple ever appear live at the Roxy? I remember one of my cousins said they saw her there.

Warren: You mention "Follies" and yes, it's still one of the greatest musicals ever produced. It was somewhat dismissed by critics during it's initial run (John Simon, critic of New York Magazine now admits this...) but it's now considered a classic.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but the concept of "Follies" was begun with the famous photograph of Gloria Swanson in the ruins of the Roxy.

From Frank S. Nugent's 1939 NY Times review of "The Wizard of Oz", it establishes that it opened at The Capitol:

"By courtesy of the wizards of Hollywood, The Wizard of Oz reached the Capitol's screen yesterday as a delightful piece of wonder-working which had the youngsters' eyes shining and brought a quietly amused gleam to the wiser ones of the oldsters."

All of the participants in this full Roxy/RCMH discussion should be thanked for contributing so much to the history and analysis of the impact of these two theaters. And appreciation to "Cinema Treasures" for providing the venue. One further thought, touched on earlier: Radio City Music Hall was not built as a movie palace. So, despite its reputation for premiering the finest pictures of the mid-century, it was never the best place in New York City in which to view and hear films properly. But, as a New Yorker whose first experience at RCMH was a morning premiere at RCMH of "Bambi" in August, 1942, and who even enjoyed the "fiasco" of the three-strip "Windjammer" at the Roxy years later, I loved 'em both.

I attended the World Premiere of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" at RCMH last May. The theater was packed, and I was sitting in the orchestra section, about 20 rows from the stage on the right side. There was a really pronounced echo in the theater, and I was very surprised. At times it was so bad, you couldn't understand the dialogue. I thought with all those people, the standard acoustical reverb that you normally hear in such an immense theater would have been dissipated.

I am too young to have seen any shows at the Roxy. Were the acoustics similar in that showplace?

I know this isn't the RCMH site, but after realizing that the Music Hall wasn't really intended for films, isn't it somewhat ironic that it's now being used mostly for live performances?

Re: great "low" prices of tickets to movie palaces (and musicals) in the "olden" days

While it is indeed probably true that tickets to the movies and the great movie palaces were great bargains (and great entertainment values!) in years gone by, it should also be remembered that people MADE a lot less money in those days too, and that prices for other things -- including other forms of entertainment -- were also correspondingly lower in those days too.

In other words, it's important to account for inflation across the board and not just selectively when comparing prices from one era to another. What is "really" more accurate (to the extent that one can be accurate about such things in the first place -- it's stubbornly tricky) is to compare the RATIO of prices within one era to the RATIO of prices within another era. For example, a more accurate way of making such a comparison would be to say that the price of a ticket to a musical was, say, eight and a half times more than that of a movie in 1960, versus, let's say, eleven times more than that of a movie in 2004. (Don't know if this is true, just guessing here.)

If I remember correctly, in the early 1960s (too late for the Roxy, but as far back as my memory of these things go) prices were as follows (wasn't earning money yet, so don't know about wages):

15 cents for bus or subway fare to go to the movies; 50 cents for a child's ticket ($1.00 for an adult's ticket); 15 cents for a slice of pizza, before or after the movie; about $8.60(?) for top price to a big Broadway musical on Friday or Saturday night -- both Wednesday and Saturday matinee prices seemed to be about one-half that (even without "twofers") though. Don't remember what the cost of a ticket to the Grand Tier of the Metropolitan Opera was, but I think it was "considerably" more (maybe in the $20 range?) than the top price of a Broadway show.

I say all this because although prices for tickets to Broadway musicals, for instance, are indeed higher than what they were in the past (even accounting for inflation), it is not quite as dramatic as it is often made out to be. (Although the cost of tickets for musicals have probably, indeed, outpaced inflation because of higher labor costs and much more technically elaborate scenery, etc.)

To paraphrase the great line said by Gloria Swanson (as Norma Desmond) -- (I think it was something like) "It's not that pictures got bigger, it's that the people got smaller" -- "It's not that plays and musicals got expensive, it's that everything else ("records," home movies, etc.) got so much cheaper."

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P.S. -- I'm very surprised that a top priced ticket to "Follies" (whose poster design does indeed seem to consciously evoke that great Life Magazine picture of Gloria Swanson in the ruins of the Roxy -- the photo is reproduced on the last page of Ben Hall's "Best Remaining Seats"), would have cost only $7.50 in the early 1970s. I distinctly remember higher prices than that even in the early 1960s, and a collection of reviews of Broadway musicals ("Opening Night on Broadway,"[?] by Suskin[?]) includes posters of Broadway musicals that show higher prices than that, also earlier than the 1970s.

Hi Benjamin, I think the Norma Desmond quote you're looking for is "I AM big. It's the pictures that got small.". This in response to William Holden's character when he said "You're Norma Desmond! You used to be in silent pictures! Used to be big!" Regarding prices, it's hard to say what may have seemed inexpensive to our grandparents without being there to experience it ourselves. A line from the 1933 film "Footlight Parade" has someone saying "It's a lot better to fill your theatre 4 times a day at 50 cents a head, than to have it half full once a night for 5 dollars per person."

My grandparents used to recollect going to the movies for 35 cents, and buying a week's groceries for a family of five for $5.00, yet I had a great aunt who was known for buying $75.00 hats! If the average movie admission today costs $7.00 this would compare to expensive hats costing about $1500.00! This would also mean one could feed a family of five for about $100.00 a week. If I can go by my own grocery bill, this may not be a reasonable amount. I guess one can't simply compare prices across the board. Some items have increased a great deal, some not as much, and some items (like expensive ladies' hats) don't seem to exist at all anymore!

My Mother commented once that the most expensive movie she saw in her younger days was "The Best Years of Our Lives" which was a whopping $4.00 in it's first release. She said the price was unheard of.

Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.

Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.

At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.

Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It's called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.

Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.

Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.

At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.

Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It's called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.

Shirley Temple's "The Bluebird," which was Fox's Technicolor answer to MGM's "The Wizard of Oz," played at the Roxy, but in a second-run engagement after it flopped miserably in its opening booking at the Hollywood Theatre. It seems possible that Temple made some personal appearances at the Roxy, but I doubt that she ever performed in one of the actual stage shows that ran three or four times daily, seven days a week. The child labor laws would have prohibited it.

I always thought the Bluebird was such a sad and morbid film. It was sad that this was the only Technicolor film she made. This seems so unusual for the Roxy to play a moveover in those days, but then again they were pretty much the premiere Fox house.

I think "The Little Princess" is another technicolor film for Shirley Temple. I agree with you about "The Bluebird", but it is a fascinating film, in a weird way.

Vincent, in response to the legalized extortion, I agree. I can guarantee that I will never see a Broadway show, simply thinking about how much I paid would keep me from enjoying myself.

Ziggy
I agree for adults it's ok, just too morbid for kids to see about her dead grandparents and all.

Ziggy:

Thank you for the accurate version of that wonderful quote! While that version of the quote could also be used as a launching pad for an analogy, it is also quite unlikely, however, that someone would ever, ever admit to it!: "I AM still a big bargain; it's that the rest of the rest of the world got less expensive!"

I think the illustrative prices provided by your grandparents and aunt are great (although dates would make it even better) and help illustrate my two points: 1) that you have to compare across the board within an era; 2) that comparisons across eras are nevertheless tricky because of other changes in the way people live (like hats not holding the same place in a well-dressed woman's wardrobe as it used to have).

By the way, given what people tell me about prices for woman's clothing -- especially hand crafted, high fashion items -- $1,500 for a hat (if hats still held the same place in a woman's life as they did then) would not be all that outrageous. I forget exact prices that woman have told me that they've paid for things they've purchased, but I do remember being shocked at the price of "simple" things like scarves, tiny bathing suits, handbags, etc.

Vincent:

I think the key thing you mentioned in your last post about the $7.50 for "Follies" was that it was for a Wednesday matinee. I'm not sure about these days, but traditionally that's the cheapest set of prices for a Broadway show, and in the "old" days such prices were SIGNIFICANTLY lower than those for the top tickets on a Friday or Saturday night. Usually when people talk about prices for Broadway shows they make comparisons between the top prices for a Friday or Saturday night, which is what I thought your $7.50 figure was referring to.

The $250 and $500 tickets you mention are a new phenomenon and using them to compare to past prices is misleading. In the old days "scalpers" would also charge (illegally) such exorbitant sums for "hot" tickets -- but these prices are recorded for cost comparisons. The $250 and $500 tickets today are a way of producers seeing to it that such money spent goes into the hands of the producer rather than to a scalper (who hasn't shouldered any of the risk of putting on the show).

But in addition to prices that are, in fact, genuinely higher than those of the past, another way of charging more for Broadway show is to charge higher for the lower priced seats -- 2nd balcony, matinees tickets, etc. -- and my guess is that THAT is where you probably are going to see the biggest price difference between prices today and in the "old" days.

Going back to the discussion of the Roxy and movie palaces, in a way the movie palaces provide another example. Although their prices probably remained quite reasonable until the "end," the demand for their product at that price became less and less (as the public's taste changed). In other words, given all the other inexpensive entertainment options that existed, and were being developed, fewer people were still interested in seeing that type of combo film and stage show, even if the prices for it were eminently reasonable. People preferred spending their entertainment dollar on something else.

(Another better example, I think, might be transatlantic ocean travel. It's not that ocean liners became more expensive, but that the development of jets made other options quicker and cheaper.)

P.S. -- Sorry, but I made a significant typo in my previous post. One sentence should have read: " . . . but these prices are NOT recorded for cost comparisons."

(In other words, some people WERE paying similar prices for hot tickets in the old days, we just don't know about it.)

Went to the museum of the moving image and few weeks ago to check out the exhibit on Loews theatres, and although it was good, wish it was larger. They had some newsreels of openings at the Loew's state including some like it hot, lolita, ben hur and lots of photos. The museum is fun and if you have not visited you should. As a kid I always would want to go to the music hall, it was just more special to me than the Roxy, also it might have been the movies. But as someone else said (or did they) they were both great and the Roxy is missed along with the other great theatres. I don't think there was much hue and cry of the destruction of the Roxy, it was just another day in the city. Sad but I have my memories and all my programs from RCMH and the Roxy.

Re: Accoustics of the Roxy vs. The Music Hall. The accoustics at Radio City were excellent for the live show but terrible for the films. There was an echo; especially when I saw Audrey Hepburn films there like "Two For the Road" or "Charade". The Roxy had no echo and the films were clearly audible.

There was always a "slap" at the Music Hall but I don't remember it being that bad. In fact the Sound of Music sounded great there in '75. The organ in the wedding sequence sounded as if it were being played live. Also the revival of Singin in the Rain in '75 used a fake stereo(which I normally hate) extremely well done. I've never heard Conrad Salinger's wonderful arrangements again with such clarity and impact. Canby called this presentation "gilt edged."

Hello Benjamin! You're right, I should have mentioned the years of my grandparents recollections. These prices would have been from the late 1930's, and would have been typical for Rochester, NY. I think also, if we compared prices then we should compare experiences. Granted, a great many movies from the 20's and 30's are pretty bad but suppose a typical theatre seat in a city cost 50 cents, and for that half dollar you get an orchestra, organist, newsreel, travelogue, short subject, feature film, and a stage show. You also get to experience this in a magnificent hall ornately decorated with copies and originals of various works of art. Now, I know that 50 cents was a lot of money 70 or 80 years ago. As a guess I would say it translates into 10 or 15 dollars today. If it were possible to replicate the moviegoing experience of the 20's and 30's for 15.00 per person (which, given minimum wage laws and theatre union wages, I assume it's not possible) I would definitely be more of a moviegoer than I am. I just don't think I get my 8 bucks worth. To get back to my grandparents, my grandmother remembered going to the Eastman, which was Rochester's largest and highest class theatre in the mid 20's. She said you could sit in the balcony for a quarter and after it was all said and done you definitely felt you had gotten your quarter's worth, and then some!

Back to my great aunt's hats. You could be right about hand crafted clothing. She married a rich man and had no children. I'm just amazed because catalogues from the same era show very pretty women's hats for $1.50 and less.

Benjamin, as a P.S., I suppose another analogy for the Norma Desmond quote could be "I am a big bargain, it's just that the rest of the world lowered their standards" ;-)

I would have liked to have seen more details and photo's in Ben Hall's book about the projection booth at the Roxy. It was located in the front of the balcony, eliminating the long throw that resulted from booths that were over the top of the rear balcony.
Maybe Vito or others could weigh in here. What did the projectionists think of this arrangement, which Hall calls an "innovation"? I was in contact with a former theatre chain technician who thought the "head on" projection at the Roxy created other problems such as ghosting from the lenses.
Also Hall refers to a staff of 16 projectionists on various shifts which was unheard of anywhere else. How does that compare to RCMH? Was the movie presentation more complex at the Roxy?

I would have liked to have seen more details and photo's in Ben Hall's book about the projection booth at the Roxy. It was located in the front of the balcony, eliminating the long throw that resulted from booths that were over the top of the rear balcony.
Maybe Vito or others could weigh in here. What did the projectionists think of this arrangement, which Hall calls an "innovation"? I was in contact with a former theatre chain technician who thought the "head on" projection at the Roxy created other problems such as ghosting from the lenses.
Also Hall refers to a staff of 16 projectionists on various shifts which was unheard of anywhere else. How does that compare to RCMH? Was the movie presentation more complex at the Roxy?

The "Joe Coco Collection" in the Photo Gallery at www.historictheatres.org has some wonderful B&W views of the Roxy's exterior in the 1940s and 50s, including long waiting lines for "The Robe." One photo even has a rare glimpse of the Roxy's fire escapes from the balcony, which you were likely to see only if you were walking west on 50th Street towards the theatre from Sixth Avenue.

Warren: I've seen this and they are the BEST. Are these the ones showing "Stormy Weather" and another with "My Friend Flicka"? What's so great about these pictures is that they are clear and you can see so much.

Re: Projection and acoustics

While this doesn't answer the question posed by "mjc," I thought people might be interested in reading part of what the Hall book does say. The author of the article, Maurice Kahn, that is reprinted in the Hall book and from which the quote is taken, makes some interesting statements.

"The unique location of the projection room -- in a cut in the balcony -- has a three-fold purpose, the bettering of the theater's acoustics, the improvement of projection and creation of an atmosphere of intimacy despite the theater's size. The distance from the booth to the screen -- the "throw" of the picture is exactly 100 feet, instead of the customary 250 feet. All distortion is eliminated by this innovation." (from a reprint of "Roxy, A History" -- the lavish 60-page souvenir book prepared by the editors of "The Film Daily" that is reprinted in Hall, pg. 87 [unnumbered])

The full page picture of the interior of the Roxy on pg. 132 shows only the beginning of where there is a recess in the balcony for the projection booth.

Re: acoustics

If the acoustics for movies were good at the Roxy, it's interesting to consider that the theater was probably not designed with acoustics in mind since when the Roxy was being designed, actors in movies didn't "really" talk yet. The Hall book gives the impression that Vitaphone was still being perfected (pg. 240) while the foundations for the Roxy were being laid (pg. 78, unnumbered).

Perhaps part of the Roxy's good fortune in this regar (as opposed to that of Radio City Music Hall which was built about five years later) can be attributed to the very irregular surfaces created by its more traditional, ornate architectural decoration (which I believe can be helpful to acoutics in certain instances). In contrast, Radio City Music Hall has, of course, a strikingly modern interior with very untraditionally "flat" surfaces for a theater, which would seem to foster an echo. (According to Krinksy [pgs. 180, 182-183] RCMH's acoustics were never good, apparently, even for its intended use as a music hall.)

Re: The cost of the Roxy and the price of admission

Thanks for the dates Ziggy! It just so happens that I was reading a book by a favorite author of mine, Jane Jacobs, and she mentions that in 1936 she was a stenographer in New York and that her weekly wages were . . . $12 dollars a week. A few pages later she mentions that in 1941 she got a better secretarial job that paid $15 dollars a week.

Also noticed this in the CD booklet for the "Ziegfeld Follies of 1936" (coincidentally at the Winter Garden, across the street from the Roxy entrance): "By the end of two additional tryout weeks in Philadelphia, word filtered back to New York that the [show] would be worth the unusually high $5.50 top ticket price." (This amount is almost one-half of Jane Jacobs' weekly wages!)

So by adding all of this info together, a picture begins to emerge as to what prices REALLY meant in the mid- to late-1930s.

I wonder how much it cost to go to the Roxy at this time? My 1939 guidebook to NYC doesn't give the price of admission to the Roxy, but it does give the price of Radio City Music Hall, and I assume that the Roxy's prices were similar for competitive reasons

"Single Admissions. Radio City Music Hall: 40 cents to $1.65, performances begin about 11:30 A.M. Observatory (RCA Building, 70th Floor): adults 40 cents, children 20 cents; 10 A.M. to midnight."

Assuming Jacobs worked a 40 hour week, she was getting paid 30 cents an hour. So she had to work an hour and twenty minutes to pay for her admission to Radio City Music Hall.

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It's interesting that the opening day ad for the Roxy reproduced in the Hall book says the theater cost $10,000,000 (1927) to build, but the 1939 guide book says it cost "fifteen million dollars." (I was thinking that maybe the $10,000,000 does NOT include the cost of land, which Hall gives as $3,000,000, but that still leaves about $2,000,000 unaccounted for!)

Whichever numbers are correct, it would be interesting to compare the cost of building the Roxy to the prices charged for admission -- to get a true indicator of how enormously expensive the theater must have been. Unfortunately, however, 1927 dollars were different from 1936 prices, so to do this right you'd really have to find out the price of admission to the Roxy in 1927 (or pre-1929 crash).

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The only ad I could find in the Hall book that states the price of admission to the Roxy was the ad for the closing attraction, "The Wind Cannot Read": 90 cents, opening to noon; $1.25, noon to 6 P.M.; $1.50, 6 P.M. to closing.

How much is this in today's dollars?

I haven't gone to the movies in ages, so I went by the multiplex on Third Ave. and 11th(?) St. in Manhattan. Their prices were $10.50 for adults and $7.00(?) for children and seniors. (I should have written it down the price for a child's ticket, but I know that it was more than 1/2 price.) (I'm wondering if these prices are unusually high as you mentioned that the average price of a movie is $7.00. How did you arrive at your figure -- for what localities and for what showings?)

For the moment, I'll stick with the $10.50 price and round it down to $10.00 -- since that is exactly ten times what I think it cost for a regular movie in NYC in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

Using this standard, the Roxy's prices were $9.00, $12.50 and $15.00.

But given today's tastes, I don't think there are enough general interest movies (that appeal to a very wide spectrum of the population) and enough general interest live entertainment (that also would appeal to a very wide spectrum of the population) to make something like the Roxy profitable at these prices.

That's why I compare the Roxy to ocean liners. Even if the price of a transatlantic journey remained, the advent of new, more competitive alternatives made it seem less worthwhile than it once had been. In the case of ocean liners, the competition was jet planes; in the case of the great movie palaces, the competition was changing tastes (free TV and more niche entertainment in the movies?) and the development of suburban America (and theaters showing the niche products closer to home and conveniently accessible by car).

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I've refined my Gloria Swanson quote:

Reporter: Why, you're Miss Roxy Music Hall -- you used to be a stupendous value!

MADAM Roxy Music Hall: I AM still a stupendous value -- it's the world that's gone cheap!

There is a color photo of Gloria Swanson, in a red boa, standing in the rubble of the Roxy at http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/elisofon/elisofon12.html

Ice skating first became part of the Roxy stage shows in 1948, when $80,000 was spent to install a rink that measured 60 feet by 38 feet, starting from the back wall and extending to the point where the movie screen "dropped" when in use. The new policy started June 23, 1948, with the movie "Give My Regards to Broadway," supported by a stage show headed by the Andrews Sisters and the rising comedy team of Martin & Lewis, plus a specialty number on ice, "Bal Masque," featuring skating champion Carol Lynne. Following that, ice numbers were usually but not always featured in the Roxy stage shows until 1952, when a decision was made to go "all ice" and a new, $250,000 rink was installed that extended it as far as the orchestra pit and also widened it to 80 feet. The new ice stage had a mile-and-a-half of neon tubing in four colors (amber, red, blue, green) under the surface, which could be used for special effects and was often augmented by black light and flourescent costumes. The Roxy closed for three days for the installation and re-opened December 23, 1952 with a Christmas holiday show consisting of "Stars and Stripes Forever" on screen and the skating extravaganza, "Crystal Circus," on the new "Ice Colorama" stage. This policy continued until the 1953 opening of "The Robe," when stage shows were discontinued in the belief that the new widescreen process of CinemaScope would be sufficient to draw crowds. However, when public interest in CinemaScope waned, the Roxy resumed stage shows (on ice) in 1955 with the engagement of "Rains of Ranchipur." The dual policy continued until 1958, when the Roxy dropped stage shows again for conversion to CineMiracle and the hard-ticket engagement of "Windjammer." After that boxoffice fiasco, the Roxy resumed conventional stage shows with its movies, but without ice. The equipment may have been removed to make way for CineMiracle, but I'm not sure.

Fascinating information, thanks Warren. I should add that Martin and Lewis were also playing at the Copacabana during their engagement at the Roxy. Their star was certainly rising!

I had heard the organ was damaged when they converted to the ice shows. Is that true?

Bob

Boy did performers have energy and discipline then. Today a star performer can't even make 8 perfs a week on Broadway. Maybe it's the air.

I used to work for Jerry Lewis. He told me that he and Dean were having so much fun in those early days, it didn't bother them how many shows they did a day. They probably didn't finish at the Copa until 3 or 4 AM, and then would have to be at the Roxy for the first show in the morning.

I know when they played at the Paramount, the first stage show was around 10 or 11 AM! I don't know how they did it.

Warren-- Thanks for clarifying my post of 8 Jan with circumstantial detail. I recounted that post from memory, but checked dates in the NYT Directory of the Film. I didn't realize that "Give My Regards to Broadway" launched the first ice show, nor that Martin and Lewis performed a stage act with it. I do recall the Viennese ice waltz on with "That Lady in Ermine." Photos of the marquee in the Joe Coco Collection of THSA at historicthraters.org reveal that the ice show with "Carousel" was titled "Springtime," not "Gala Paree" as I had claimed: what mad reaction-formation drove the Roxy to name a February ice show "Springtime"? (I ask this question as snow and zero-degree temperatures currently invade our NE region.)

Bob, the Roxy's organ was a comedy of errors from day one. Installing it under the stage rather than the conventional approach of organ chambers on either side of the prosecenium was error number one. With musicians in the pit, the sound was obscured (and must have been hell for the musicians) since the orchestra masked the sound. Extending the stage apron blocked the sound completely. The main console was buried at the bottom of the lift. One of the managers hit on the idea of moving the console to one of the side boxes, but the only way for the organ to be heard was through the house PA system (barely hi-fi at the time). Finally, the perpetual leaking from the ice rink through the stage floor ruined it completely.

Benjamin, I really enjoyed your comment from January 16th! I got my movie prices from upstate New York where moviegoing is considerably cheaper than in Manhattan. I love your new "quote".

In the book "We Americans" the author makes an interesting observation as to why movies fell from favor. He doesn't believe that it's because of alternative amusements (they always existed in one form or another), but rather because Hollywood has lost it's way. They no longer produce films that make us feel good about ourselves or that make us WANT to have our lives be like the lives of people up on the screen. Moviegoing has long since ceased to be the communal emotional experience it once was.

I have to admit I agree, and you're right, the world HAS gone cheap!

In other words, if the Roxy (and ocean liners) were still around, they would be a stupendous value, but people don't want value, they want fast and cheap!

To these discussions about relative price scales at the Roxy and other theaters, I'd like to add that NYC's best value in the late '50s-early '60s was the day-of-performance standing-room sale for live performances, which was as cheap as or cheaper than most first-run films. Matinees cost $1.50 and evening performances cost $2.00 for a spot at the rear of the orchestra seats. Both matinee and evening performances at the Met Opera cost $2.00 for a spot beside the orchestra seats and $1.25 for a spot beside the family circle seats.

As a high school and college kid at the time, I saw everything (well, practically everything) that way. In the early '60s, Playbill, Inc. had a special deal for students that included free standing room in exchange for distributing and collecting questionnaires during the first weeks of a new show. When hit shows were sold out months in advance, standing room guaranteed entry as long as you arrived well before the box office opened on the day of performance. After the lights dimmed, standees were allowed to fill empty seats. (This was especially good at the Met, where certain subscribers left at the first intermission or else didn't show up at all). When the Met moved to Lincoln Center in '66, it then placed its standing room tickets on sale a month before the performance, which killed any build-up and climax attending the day-of-performance sales (a cantatus interruptus).

My standing-room days ended in Spring '81 when, after prevailing on our feet for "Amadeus" at the Broadhurst (prices had by then risen to $4.00, still cheaper than first-run films), my wife announced that we were getting too old for that sort of thing (thirty-nine? Jack Benny's age?). Since then, it's been a continual hunt for cheap seats in the balcony. Bah.

What's this got to do with the Roxy? In Dec. '57 some friends and I were turned away from a sold-out standing-room for “Aida” at the Met. Dejected, we walked up to the Roxy where we saw a terrific stage-and-screen combo featuring Lana Turner in the sex-laden "Peyton Place." Ever afterward (or at least until the Roxy closed in '61), the name of Rothafel's World Famous Theater provided a consoling by-word for a band of foot-weary standees in Gotham, eventually making its way into pages of fiction.

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, I thought the price of a "regular" ticket for a movie was $1.00 (50 cents for a child's ticket)? So although those great standee prices ($1.50, $2.00) were cheaper than a real seat, they would still seem to be not quite the same price as a movie. And using the "rule of thumb" index for inflation (a movie today is approx. 10x the price of a $1.00 movie in the early 1960s), a $1.00 movie costs $10.00 today (which it more or less does), so $1.50 or $2.00 standing room would $15.00 or $20.00 today (don't know if that is the case).

I also liked to compare my great theater bargains to the price of a movie also. Although I wasn't aware of the Playbill program (too young then anyway), my junior high (I think?) had some kind of program in the early 1960s that allowed students to see a Broadway show for, I believe, a dollar -- which happened to be (I think) the price of an adult ticket to a movie! Got to see "Carnival" (rear orchestra), "A Man for All Seasons" (rear orchestra), "Mary, Mary" (balcony or second balcony) this way.

Don't know if all NYC public schools had this, or if my school was lucky. Also wonder if the fact that a fellow student's father was the conductor for "The Sound of Music" had anything to do with it. (Like maybe he alerted the school authorities at my school to this program?)

I wonder if the Roxy ever had movies that allowed schools to use a trip to the Roxy as a class trip. (I know in junior high (?) our school had a class trip to see "El Cid" -- an historical drama about the unification of Spain? -- at either the Capitol or the Warner, I believe.) A trip to the Roxy could have been a TRULY educational experience (with talks about silent films and the impact of the "talkies," movie "palaces" for people who weren't rich, etc.).

Also saw many shows with standing room. Most memorable standing room experience?: "Camelot" (second to last performance) and "How to Succeed" (early in its run, when it was still a "hot" ticket).

Over the years, got a few front row center seats with TKTS or twofers too. Best twofer deal?: $1.00(?) to see Barbra Streisand in "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" (twofers, last row of the second balcony on a Saturday matinee).

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"Ever afterward (or at least until the Roxy closed in '61), the name of Rothafel's World Famous Theater provided a consoling by-word for a band of foot-weary standees in Gotham, eventually making its way into pages of fiction."

This sounds interesting, please explain. Are you saying that one of the friends included this experience in a novel he/she wrote? Or do you mean something more prosaic?

Speaking of prices, no visit to the Roxy was complete for me without a visit to one of two Chinese restaurants within a half-block of the theater. They were Ding Ho and Ho Ho, and the chicken chow mein lunch special included wonton soup, noodles, rice, ice cream, and tea. During the mid-50's, the meal was 55 cents. (Shrimp chow mein was 65 cents.)

There was a chinese place near the Music Hall on 50th Street between 7th and 6th. It was on a second floor. Could this have been Ho Ho?
I ate there after seeing Airport. It was $2.50 for a complete chow main dinner. Everything mentioned above including an egg roll.
Airport with the Easter show was $2.00.
OK so today the Christmas show is $100.00. But I don't think a full chow main dinner would cost $125.00 even accounting for inflation.

With all these prices, along with their helpful dates, being listed, I noticed something interesting.

In 1970 a movie cost about $1.75 (that's my guess); at $2.00, Radio City Music Hall probably cost a bit more than a movie; a chow mein dinner cost about $2.50; and a top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night. So a $2.00 ticket to Radio City Music Hall was "positioned" closer to a movie ($1.75[?]) than to the top price of a Broadway show on Saturday night ($15.00).

If you multiply all these prices by a factor of six you, get the following prices, adjusted for inflation: a movie costs $10.50, an "old-time" Radio City Music Hall ticket should cost $12.00, a chow mein dinner costs $15.00, and top price of a Broadway show on Saturday night is $90.00. While this is off a bit, it is roughly true for a movie and a Broadway show (don't know about the chow mein dinner). But, obviously, the management of Radio City Music Hall has "repositioned" a show at Radio City Music Hall to be seen more like a $100 Broadway show (like the "Lion King" or "Beauty and the Beast") and less like a trip to the movies ($10.50).

I have had a horrible day...until I sat for 3 hours and read most of the comments above. This site thanks to Cinema Treasures and the priceless contributions above are just exhilarating. Yes it is a tragedy The Roxy is gone but the information and anecdotes...and hilarious quotes etc are just so fascinating and entertaining. I hope this site particularly remains unedited so we can all spend wonderful hours scrolling down from the start/top time after time, making detours into the picture links and continually marvelling at every piece of info here. I love it and wish I could have you all over for dinner...except I live 12,000 miles away! Thank you to each and every person and their truly exciting and enlivening contributions. I just love it when there is new comments posted, I read them over and over. And after a crummy day I read them all over again. Yes I have a life ( a great one in Sydney Australia, home of the incredible State and Capitol Theatres) but this site and its NY theatre info and Roxy love affair is the icing on the cinema cake. Thankyou to each and every one of you. PAUL BRENNAN .

Benjamin a first run non roadshow movie for instance at the Loews State cost $3.00. $2.00 was the afternoon price at the Music Hall until 6pm. So if you saw the 6pm stage show and then the movie you payed the afternoon price. I believe weekday prices were 1.50, 2.00, 2.50.
Prices went up that summer with Darling Lili. At that point the evening price matched the price of a first run movie. 1.75 became the mornng weekday price at the Hall. This was an incredible bargain even for the time. I mean a movie a symphony orchestra, a ballet, and the Rockettes and the place itself. And this was the 70's!

This "incredible bargain" was one of the main reasons why RCMH was forced to end the policy of movies with stage shows. Revenues were deeply in the red due to labor costs. Even if RCMH had doubled or tripled admission prices, I doubt they would have been able to break even. And the public wouldn't have accepted such a drastic price increase either.

But I think that basically there was no longer a paying audience even for $3.00. The Hall was no longer getting the cream of Hollywood films(that's why they would play a dubbed foreign film like Sunflower and crud like See No Evil) and the stage shows were becoming increasingly threadbare. I went to many Saturday performances during this era that were not well attended and I believe up until the mid 60's the weekends always had lines.
Another example-when The Way We Were was new the Hall was showing The Optimists. And after the summer of 70 Bolero was never done again and it was I think after the holiday shows its most popular stage attraction.

Benjamin-- You were an active theater-goer in ’61, the year most of those plays opened (perhaps I foisted a Playbill questionnaire upon you at one time?). For standee prices, the years I referred to were ‘56-’64, when I patrolled the terrain on active duty (so-to-speak). And during this time, expenses remained agreeably constant. I would think of the estimates you cite as those at neighborhood movie houses.

Variety lists the following scale [the first figure represents morning or matinee prices; the second, evening prices] for first-run houses in Dec. ’56: the Roxy, $1.25-$2.50 for “Anastasia” with stage show; the Astor, $.75-$2.00 for “The Mountain”; the Rivoli, $1.25-$3.50 for “Around the World etc.” roadshow. In Dec. ‘60 prices held steady: RCMH, $.90-$2.75 for “The Sundowners” (the Roxy had closed the previous Spring; prices for “Li’l Abner,” its final Christmas show, were $.90-$2.50); at the Astor, $.75-$2.00 for “Inherit the Wind”; at the Rivoli, $1.50-$3.50 for “The Alamo” roadshow. In Dec. ’64 tickets went for $.95-$2.75 at RCMH for “Charade”; $1.25-$2.00 at the Astor for “Lillies of the Field”; and $2.50-$5.50 at the Rivoli for “Cleopatra” roadshow. I could be mistaken, but I remember standee prices as likewise stable (my tight, tight budget made me acutely aware of these costs).

I know of no public or parochial schools that made live theater so lavishly available to young students. That proved wonderful for you! And I know of no special deals for school-groups at the Roxy or elsewhere. I do recall that some Catholic elementary schools arranged upper-grade outings (at regular prices paid by interested students) to Christmas and Easter shows at RCMH. I also recall that at RCMH, regardless of the season, you’d always see habit-clad nuns attending morning performances; because of their obstructive wimples, they sat self-effacingly in the rear orchestra rows. Perhaps the Chancery at nearby St. Patrick’s had struck a deal for clergy prices (doable as long as the picture got a General Patronage nod from the Legion of Decency, no?). “El Cid” opened at the Warner on 14 Dec. ’61. James McCourt writes of standees celebrating the Roxy in “Mawrdew Czgowchwz” (first ed., p. 23; 2nd ed., p. 17). I lack the grace of commitment.

BoxOfficeBill: Thanks for all that terrific pricing info. With regards to the 1956 prices, I assume "Around the World in 80 Days" at the Rivoli was a "hard ticket" roadshow engagement. If so, then it would seem that for all three years, 1956, 1960 and 1964, roadshows had the highest "top" tickets ($3.50, $3.50, and $5.50); Radio City Music Hall, or the Roxy, had the second highest priced top tickets ($2.50, $2.75 and $2.75) and first run, non-roadshow theaters had the third highest priced top tickets ($2.00, $2.00 and $2.00). I assume the neighborhood theater prices I remember from around 1960 (which I'm guessing were top priced tickets for a neighborhood theater like the Valencia, Alden or Merrick), $1.00 for adults and $.50 for children, would then have been the fourth highest priced ticket.

I think I now see your point about standing room ($2.00, in the evening) being equivalent to the price of a movie -- a first run, non roadshow movie in Times Sq. ($2.00 in the evening). That is a bargain, especially when you consider that standing room is right on the orchestra level, right behind the last row of seats where, in 1960, people were paying around $9.00 (for Friday or Saturday evenings).

Although it's possible, I tend to doubt that I ever received a questionnaire from you as I think that would have been a "big thing" to a kid like me, and I don't remember something like that happening. Actually this is the first I ever recall hearing about such a polling project -- sounds interesting.

And thanks for the info on "El Cid"! I vaguely recall seeing it with my class in the springtime (which is also a "natural" time for a class trip of that sort). In any case, "spring of 1962" makes it a grade school trip, instead of a junior high trip as I had thought -- pretty "neat" for a grade school trip!

I looked up the McCourt book and hope to at least take a look at those pages when I get the chance.

Why do i seem to remember that it all started to go way downhill when Universal-International booked a film into the Hall (I think "Swashbuckler" was the feature) and also opened it simultaneously in the boroughs, or at least, Long Island? RCMH no longer was "exclusive." Someone pls enlighten me on this.

Some of the admission prices cited for RCMH are misleading. The high end was for reserved seats in the first mezzanine, which held only about 900 seats. The remaining 5,100 seats were "general admission" and priced probably for at least $1 less than that, no matter where you sat.

Warren: interesting point! But, just to illustrate the complexity of the "problem" when one tries to do valid cost comparisons, I would think that the ticket prices for the first run road shows would also vary by location. And since BoxOfficeBill's original comment was about the price of standing room -- which also depends upon one's location -- the comparison between these three still holds.

But, as you point out, it is important to remember that Radio City Music Hall (and I'm guessing, the Roxy too) also offered many, many seats (in fact, the vast majority of seats) at a lower price, one that should also be brought into the "equation" -- as they are comparable to the seats offered at first run non roadshow theaters and at neighborhood movie houses.

I'm assuming (but am not really sure) that first run, non roadshow Times Sq. theaters and neighborhood theaters, like the Valencia, had a single price policy for seats throughout the theater (depending, of course, on the time of day). So at the Valencia, for instance, a seat cost at a particular time of day cost the same price whether you sat in the orchestra, the loge or the balcony (which allowed, I believe, smoking).

Movie theatres with balconies often had a segregated section at the front called the "loge" where seats were bigger and wider spaced. Loge tickets were always priced higher than general admission, from maybe 25 to 50 cents or even $1, depending upon time of day. I think that until the 1930s, loges were also the only places where patrons were permitted to smoke in many theatres, which was another justification for the higher price. Eventually, smoking was also permitted in all upstairs seating. I think the opening of RCMH broke that barrier. You could smoke in any of the RCMH mezzanines. Right after that, the Roxy, Capitol, Paramount, Strand, etcetera, also permitted upstairs smoking everywhere...In the "old days," movie theatres, regardless of rank, always had a sliding scale of admission prices. From opening until 5 or 6PM, it would be cheaper than in the evening. Weekday performances were cheaper than those on weekends. On Saturday night, and all of Sunday and holidays, the highest prices prevailed. Children under 12 usually paid half the adult price. There were no discounts for seniors.

Concerning Veyoungs comment I believe it was Harry and Walter go to New York that put Radio City on showcase in '76. You would think they could have gotten better movies if they were so flexible.

When the Roxy celebrated its 25th anniversary in March, 1952, it was reported that attendance since opening day had amounted to 107,067,319, and that 749 movie/stage shows had been presented. The average yearly attendance was 4,282,692, or roughly 82,359 per week or 11,766 daily. That quarter of a century, of course, included the depths of the Depression and the heights of the WWII period, so the averages may seem extreme if applied to specific years.

According to a New York Times article when the Roxy first opened, situating the projection booth in the first balcony permitted a "throw" of only 104 feet to the screen. If, as in most theatres, the booth had been placed at the back of the last row of top balcony seats, the Roxy's "throw" would have been 204 feet...Also, the Roxy's stage level was one floor below that of the street, which meant that people in orchestra seats did not have to look up at the stage but straight in front of them.

So what was the size of the Roxy screen from 27 til 53? Then what was the size of the Cinemascope screen that people were overwhelmed by?

In his 9/17/53 NYT review of "The Robe," Bosley Crowther said that the Roxy's CinemaScope screen measured 68 feet wide by 24 feet high. Four months later, in his review of "Knights of the Round Table" at Radio City Music Hall, Crowther reported RCMH's CinemaScope screen as 70 feet wide by 28 feet high, so it was just slightly larger than the Roxy's.

When I saw 7 Brides at the Hall in the late 70's it seemed larger than the Panavision or 70mm screen there. It was huge. I can't even begin to imagine what 90 to 100 ft Cinerama screens were like. Now I'm beginning to think that the 60ft Todd AO screen at the Rivoli was on the small side.

It's all dependent on the size of the auditorium. Both the Roxy's and the RCMH's original CinemaScope screen were larger than the Broadway's original Cinerama screen. However, the effect was much more startling at the Broadway. There are pictures of both the original CinemaScope and Todd-AO screens at the Rivoli on the American WideScreen Museum site.

The last "combo" show at the Roxy before it switched to movies only with the September, 1953 introduction of CinemaScope was "Mister Scoutmaster" (incongrously starring the homosexual Clifton Webb in the title role!) and the Ice Colorama stage revue, "Dude Ranch Round-Up." After an unprofitable first week, the Roxy dropped the stage show for the second and final week, and replaced it with the first NYC showing of "Vicki." The double feature of "Mister Scoutmaster" & "Vicki" may have been the Roxy's first. The only other that I know of is the reissued "On the Waterfront" & "The Caine Mutiny," which was the Roxy's next-to-last booking before it closed forever in 1960.

On 12/31/04, I did the Roxy an injustice by claiming that the Music Hall always out-grossed it. There were times when the reverse was true, most notably in September, 1953, when the Roxy set a "world's record" with an opening week's gross of $264,500 for the CinemaScoped "The Robe" (sans stage show). In the same period, RCMH, then in its fourth week of "Roman Holiday" (with stage show) grossed $122,000, according to the boxoffice reports in Variety. Furthermore,"The Robe" ran 13.5 weeks at the Roxy and grossed a total of $1.63 million, both claimed as "all-time highs" for any large, mainstream movie theatre.

Regarding CINERAMA and Cinemascope screen widths, here in Sydney Australia we had the 1300 seat single level PLAZA. The Cinerama screen installed there in 1958 was a wall-to wall head swivelling 91ft wide. It closed in 1977.

I would like to add my thoughts about CinemaScope screen size.
Let us not forget the main object of anarmorphic or large format photography, and that is to enable the director to photograph a larger area on a single frame. In my opnion, although screen size does enhance the viewing of the image,it may not be the most important aspect. I offer the example of watching a movie in a letterbox version, the screen need not be large to enjoy the advantage of a film shot in an anamorphic process.

Warren, How many times a day did the Robe play at the Roxy? Were there extra early morning perfs and what about midnight showings? At the Hall there were only 4 complete perfs a day.

To Paulb what films did you see at the Plaza? The Ziegfeld in NY is only 50 ft! But I seem to be the only one that finds that lame.

I don't know the schedule of shows for "The Robe." You'd have to look in the newspaper advertising for that period. But the movie alone ran two hours and 15 minutes, so a complete show was probably at least two and a half hours if they included a newsreel and short subject.

The Roxy followed "The Robe" with the CinemaScope "Beneath the 12 Mile Reef," which opened December 16, 1953 and grossed only $88,000 in its first week (blamed on pre-Christmas shopping). In its second week (including the holidays), business surged to $102,500. At the same time, RCMH grossed $150,000 and $181,000 with its Christmas stage-and-screen show, which included Esther Williams' "Easy to Love." The Roxy continued with a movie only until December, 1955. All of those movies were in CinemaScope, and all but two were from 20th Century-Fox. The titles and opening dates are:
"Hell and High Water," February 1, 1954
"New Faces," February 19
"Night People," March 12
"Prince Valiant," April 6
"River of No Return," April 30
"Three Coins in the Fountain," May 20
"Demetrius & the Gladiators," June 18
"Broken Lance," July 29
"The Egyptian," August 24
"Woman's World," September 28
"Black Widow," October 27
"Desiree," November 17
"There's No Business Like Show Business," December 16
"The Racers," February 4, 1955
Columbia's "Three For The Show," February 24
"Untamed," March 11
"A Man Called Peter," March 31
"Daddy Long Legs," May 5
"Soldier of Fortune," May 27
Disney's "Lady and The Tramp," June 23
"How To Be Very, Very Popular," July 22
"The Virgin Queen," August 5
"Love Is A Many Splendored Thing," August 18
"The Left Hand of God," September 21
"Seven Cities of Gold," October 7
"The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing," October 19
"The View From Pompey's Head," November 4
"Good Morning, Miss Dove," November 23
"The Rains of Ranchipur" & resumption of stage shows, December 15

Thanks Warren for the great post, I worked for 20th Century Fox during the 50s and attended every one of those movies. Now I watch them in letterbox on Fox movie channel.

The last time that I tried to watch a "letterbox" movie on FMC, "The Valley of the Dolls," they kept flashing production information about the movie across the bottom of the screen! It became so annoying that I finally stopped watching after about ten minutes. Is this standard practice on TMC? I think it's appalling. How can one concentrate on the movie with something like "Jackie Susann received $1 million for the screen rights" or the career hightlights of one of the stars suddenly popping up?

Warren, that's a special airing that only plays once in a while, most of the movies are not presented that way and when they are, the movie will also show soon before or after without that silly stuff.
FMC presents the movies with very good prints and usually letterbox.
It's the second best movie channel on cable but lacks the charm and
movie knowledge of the incomparable Robert Osburne.

Thank God for that! I complained to FMC by e-mail, but they never gave me the courtesy of a reply.

Warren, give em a second chance, overall it's a good channel. Sometimes between movies you can catch some great trailers,shorts and ole Movietone news clips. Of course it can not compare to TCM, but those pre 60s Technicolor prints look fabulous. One thing I wish they would do, and that is show overtures, leaving in the original intermission with entrance and exit music. "South Pacific", for example, is shown naked, while TCM recently showed it fully dressed.

My main complaint about FMC is that they are VERY stingy about showing pre-1948 releases. There are literally hundreds of Fox movies that are never shown. I don't know whether this is due to sheer laziness, legal problems, or just a belief that many people will not watch B&W movies.

Warren, I would have to agree, only now and then a new movie comes on for the first time but the repeats are well....repeated to often.
I get a bit tired of the post 1970s stuff. Hour of Stars has some excellent B&W gems that have not been shown since the original airing. Some very good performances from a lot of "before they where stars".

Warren--

Thanks for the Roxy's '53-'55 program list. The only film on it that I saw there was "The Robe," shortly after it had opened. I recall entering the auditorium knee-deep in the theater's super-plush carpeting during the scene when Burton entrusts Mature (or was it vice versa?) with the holy garment, and my first thought was how disproportionately wide the screen appeared. Your citation of its size (68'x24') from Crowther's review implies that it was indeed wider than the 2.66 ratio for early CinemaScope.

The Roxy showed no short subjects with that film. Instead, it begrudgingly offered a Fox Movietone News on, this time, a disproportionately narrow small screen (squarish rather than at the standard 1.33 ratio, likely to emphasize CinemaScope's width by contrast). The News ended with a triumphant brief on how 20C-Fox discovered, developed, and deployed its anamorphic lens for our viewing pleasure. The purple traveller curtain closed. After a moment's reverent silence, a portentous male voice boomed from the choral staircases that we were about to witness a miracle of motion pictures. Then the Fox fanfare began and the traveller curtain slowly parted.

Bill, I remember "The Robe" like it was yesterday and you are so right, I too thought gosh, the news is being shown on such a small screen. Of course it added to the impact somewhat like the small image projected before Cinerama when Mr.Thomas proclamed "Ladies and gentlemen, this is Cinerama" and the curtains widened.
I have to remind you, there was no Fox Fanfare at the start of
"The Robe", just the Fox logo. The music played behind the logo was part of the rich score written for the film. In fact, Mr.Newman did not write the CinemaScope extension until a few months later. Does anyone remember which film was the first to present the Fox Fanfare with the CinemaScope extension? Come on now Warren, I know you know the answer to this one.

The general consensus over the years at the rec.arts.movies.tech group, and the various film-music groups, and the Star Wars groups is that the CinemaScope Extension was written by Lionel Newman, brother of Alfred Newman, who wrote the original Fox Fanfare around 1934, and that this Extension was first used in 1954 for "River of No Return." It is still a matter of debate, especially within the Star Wars groups.

The Roxy claimed a gross of $36,000 for the opening day of "The Robe," which was described as "an all-time high for any theatre in the world for a single day's admission total." However, this was a week day, and on the first Saturday of the run, the Roxy grossed $62,000, partly due to higher weekend prices. Ads did not give specific starting times, but mentioned that doors opened at 9AM and that the last performance nightly of "The Robe" was at midnight.

’53 was evidently a prosperous year for the Roxy, and my parents contributed more than they might have wanted to. I recall that we saw “The Robe” uncharacteristically at a late afternoon rather than early morning showing, despite higher prices for the later viewing. In years past, after abandoning the long lines at RCMH for three Christmas shows in a row (’49, ’50, ’51), my mom asked an usher at the corner of E 51st and 6th (the line had stretched that far) on what time of day we could best bet to avoid another disappointing shut-out. He replied that after the family crush at morning and noon, 4:00 pm might give us a chance before the evening crowds set in. So four-ish it was when we succeeded in scaling the lobby at RCMH in ’52. The same logic figured when we planned our assault on the Roxy for “The Robe” ten months later.

Earlier in ’53 we had also endured long lines at the Roxy. For Disney’s “Peter Pan” on the Lincoln’s Birthday holiday, we stood on E 50th Street yards from the box office with only a view of the Rivoli’s rear-wall billboard for any consolation. In April, my mom announced that we would not submit to the lines at RCMH that Easter (the film was a sappy Doris Day filler and, besides, a year earlier we had seen “Singin’ in the Rain” there, which was enough for at least two Easter shows). Instead, we’d try our luck at the Roxy, where Ethel Merman’s “Call Me Madam” was packing ‘em in. Apparently others thought the same, and so we endured yet another long line at the Roxy—only worse, perhaps, because after doing your time on the street, you had to face yet more time in the labyrinthine interior, especially if you wanted choice balcony seats to enjoy the ice show with neon tubing buried in the permafrost floor.

So it seemed sensible to opt for a four-ish arrival when “The Robe” began breaking records in September. You’d pay a few nickles more for afternoon prices, but you’d avoid the frustration of dealing with throngs. On the day appointed, I rushed home from school at 3 pm, walked the dog, changed my clothes, dodged a hundred other obstacles, and finally descended the BMT stairs for an hour’s ride into midtown. The street line at the Roxy proved fairly short and time flew as it moved along. When we reached the closest box office, a white-gloved usher stopped my dad. As my mom and I gazed at the display cases, another usher approached with a two-foot-ladder, mounted it, withdrew a sign declaring the $1.50 afternoon price, and replaced it at the stroke of 5 pm with one demanding a $2.25 evening fee—a steep increase in those days. My mom asked my dad why he bothered to stop for the usher in the first place—she wouldn’t have—and he answered that he thought we were going to receive a dish or a door prize for being such good customers. And so the Roxy managed to squeeze nine more quarters from his pocket before allowing us to pass onward. My dad repeated this tale for decades afterwards.

(I'm going to check Variety for the exact "top" price at the time--I recall mostly that it seemed outrageous, especially to those who usually paid ninety cents for morning shows.)

The Roxy started off 1956 with "The Lieutenant Wore Skirts" plus an ice show topped by the legendary Sonja Henie, which opened on January 11th; "The Bottom of the Bottle" and an ice revue followed on February 1st; "Carousel" plus ice revue, February 17th; "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" with combo stage/ice revue, April 12th; "D-Day: The Sixth of June" with "Circus" ice show, plus clown Emett Kelly, aerialist Eva Walker and tightrope walker Kosmar, May 29th; "The King and I" plus "Manhattan Moods" ice/stage show, June 28th; "Bus Stop" and ice/stage show, August 31st; "Giant" and abbreviated ice show, October 10th; "Anastasia" and all-ice revue, "Wide Wide World Holiday," December 14th.

BoxOfficeBill
Thanks for that great story, it makes me almost feel like I was there.

Warren-- thanks for the details and your fine-grained distinctions between "all ice shows" and combo "ice/stage" shows. Yes, the Roxy did make that distinction. Performers without the benefit of skates did their turns on a marley mat spread out upon the stage apron.

In the days of Ice Colorama, I remember that between performances the stage crew had rolled out a rubber mat in front of the film sheet to reduce the glare shining up from the ice in the face of its screen. You can see this mat in the late '52 photo of the Roxy's renovated proscenium in Theatre Catalog 1953. I wonder why the Roxy didn't commission more photos of its stage in those days?

BoxOfficeBill: That was an amazing remembrance on your part. I loved it. I'd love to hear more about people's individual experiences at these great theaters. What better way to honor them than to hear the accounts of people going there. Please give more if you can.

Again, what amazes me more than anything else is how people would willingly and happily schlep all the way into midtown to see a movie and stage show. Today? It would never happen.

I would've loved to see all this.

Just another thought that I've raised here countless times before but I feel I have to bring up again: how amazing that The Roxy did such splendid business in 1953 only to close a mere seven(!!!) years later because of the decline in business! It seems so incredible to me but that's the way things go when it comes to entertainment for the "masses", right?

Think about now days. Ten years ago, no one heard of DVD. Now, it's taken over everything and movies are being released on DVD a mere four months after their theatrical run.

Reading these postings from BOB and Warren tear me apart. So close and yet so far! What I wouldn't give after work today to head down to Times Square and pick up a ticket at the State or Criterion or the Rivoli for a 70mm road show. Or head over to the Hall or the Roxy for a musical(really anything would do.)
Well there's always something like Sideways at the Angelica...

Also CC just think in '68 the Music Hall had its most successful movie of all time. The Odd Couple. 14 weeks and somebody at the Music Hall who worked there during the engagement told me there were as many people on the final day as there had been on the first. A box office cashier said it was the last film where the work had no let up. Two years later when I started going there on my own it had already become a ghost town.

Vincent, just to relate to how great it was for me, During the early 50s.I worked for 20th Century Fox on 10th ave and 50th St. I would take the subway to Times Square at 42nd Street and walk the eight blocks north and 3 blocks west just to look at the theatre marquee's
along B'way,especially 42nd st betwen B'way/7th ave and 8th ave.
Fun fact about working at Fox, at just about anytime of day you might be walking the halls and hear the Fox Fanfare coming from one of the editing or screening rooms. I remember a wonderful old timer who once spotted me and said "Stand at attention when you hear that son"

Vito, thanks for that great story about the Fox Fanfare. 20th Century Fox had the best-looking AND the best-sounding studio logo in the history of the movies.

"The Odd Couple" stayed at RCMH for 14 weeks because Paramount made sure of it by sending people to the advance sale boxoffice to buy reserved seats. I know, because I was one of those people (Oh, the shame of it!).

I never tire of it Bill, sometimes I catch the first few minutes of a movie on Fox movie channel just to watch the fanfare. I always hated it when they would substitute the fanfare for other music behind the searchlights, ie: Peyton Place, A Farewell to Arms, and worst of all, "Sound of Music" with silent searchlights. I don't like the new fanfare either, the tempo has been slowed and instrumentation has been altered. It's sacreligious(s) I tell you.

I never get tired of it Bill, sometimes I catch the first few minutes of a movie on Fox movie channel just to watch the fanfare. I always hated it when they would substitute the fanfare for other music behind the searchlights, ie: Peyton Place, A Farewell to Arms, and worst of all, "Sound of Music" with silent searchlights. I don't like the new fanfare either, the tempo has been slowed and instrumentation has been altered. It's sacreligious(s) I tell you.

I never get tired of it Bill, sometimes I catch the first few minutes of a movie on Fox movie channel just to watch the fanfare. I always hated it when they would substitute the fanfare for other music behind the searchlights, ie: Peyton Place, A Farewell to Arms, and worst of all, "Sound of Music" with silent searchlights. I don't like the new fanfare either, the tempo has been slowed and instrumentation has been altered. It's sacreligious(s) I tell you.

I find the short time span between great business at the Roxy to its demolition to be interesting also. This general phenomenon of "high point" then extinction has fascinated me for years now -- and the time spans just seem to be getting shorter and shorter!

It first occurred to me with reference to ocean liners. The ocean liners getting bigger, better and faster, then "pouf" -- the development of the jet airplane -- and even just built, very modern ships, (e.g., the United States, the France, the Michaelangelo and the Raffaelo) were pulled out of service and mothballed.

Another great example is radio -- whose "golden days" were even shorter than the movie palace. Roxy's show done from the Capitol Theater was one of the earliest hits of radio, and radio seems to have lost out to TV as a major medium in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

The gallop through 78s, 45s, 33 1/3, stereo, cassettes, CDs and now on-line music is in some ways, even more amazing. When "Tower (Records?) first open in New York (at Broadway and W. 3rd), it was so crowded it was like entering a "hot" nightclub. Don't remember, but I think cassettes were the medium of choice then (just having overtaken vinyl). Didn't go for a few years, and when I went back all the cassette bins were gone and replaced by CD bins. Now, it seems no matter when I go, it's a near ghost town. (I assume people are listening to music on-line.)

Another example I find interesting (and disconcerting) is the sports/concert arena. It's amazing to me that the Continental Arena (formerly Byrne Arena), Nassau Memorial Coliseum and Madison Sq. Garden are all seen as obsolete (rendered "obsolete," apparently, by the "need" for luxury "skyboxes"). It just seems like "yesterday" that they were brand new – I have yet to even go to the Nassau Coliseum or the "new" Madison Sq. Garden! Same holds true for all those post Dodger Stadium multi-purpose stadiums (like Shea).

Interesting thought: The Continental Arena opened in 1981, which makes it 24 years old. The Roxy opened in 1927 and was 24 years old in 1951.

As mentioned in previous posts, I think the Roxy seemed older than it was because of its a) historical style of architecture and b) because of a watershed change in taste towards art deco, art moderne and the International Style. Although the prevailing architectural style has changed since 1981, it is less dramatic – so in some ways the Continental Arena looks like it could have been built yesterday.

I never get tired of it Bill, sometimes I catch the first few minutes of a movie on Fox movie channel just to watch the fanfare. I always hated it when they would substitute the fanfare for other music behind the searchlights, ie: Peyton Place, A Farewell to Arms, and worst of all, "Sound of Music" with silent searchlights. I don't like the new fanfare either, the tempo has been slowed and instrumentation has been altered. It's sacreligious(s) I tell you.

Warren I don't quite understand. How could Paramount send people to advance sale box office if they wanted a ticket for the film that day? And if you didn't want to sit in the first Mezz I'm sure the crowd could see the cheaper general admission prices right there(I personally would pay $100 very happily to see this film and Berlin salute today. Not that I could afford it mind you.) It seems from the Variety grosses the film was wildly successful every week it played there fully justifying the run. This is as opposed to when I worked for Robin and Marion(10-12 weeks) where I seem to remember many perfs where if we were lucky there were a hundred people in the place. I am not exagerating.

Warren I don't quite understand. How could Paramount send people to advance sale box office if they wanted a ticket for the film that day? And if you didn't want to sit in the first Mezz I'm sure the crowd could see the cheaper general admission prices right there(I personally would pay $100 very happily to see this film and Berlin salute today. Not that I could afford it mind you.) It seems from the Variety grosses the film was wildly successful every week it played there fully justifying the run. This is as opposed to when I worked for Robin and Marion(10-12 weeks) where I seem to remember many perfs where if we were lucky there were a hundred people in the place. I am not exagerating.

I find the short time span between great business at the Roxy to its demolition to be interesting also. This general phenomenon of "high point" then extinction has fascinated me for years now -- and the time spans just seem to be getting shorter and shorter!

It first occurred to me with reference to ocean liners. The ocean liners getting bigger, better and faster, then "pouf" -- the development of the jet airplane -- and even just built, very modern ships, (e.g., the United States, the France, the Michaelangelo and the Raffaelo) were pulled out of service and mothballed.

Another great example is radio -- whose "golden days" were even shorter than the movie palace. Roxy's show done from the Capitol Theater was one of the earliest hits of radio, and radio seems to have lost out to TV as a major medium in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

The gallop through 78s, 45s, 33 1/3, stereo, cassettes, CDs and now on-line music is in some ways, even more amazing. When "Tower (Records?) first open in New York (at Broadway and W. 3rd), it was so crowded it was like entering a "hot" nightclub. Don't remember, but I think cassettes were the medium of choice then (just having overtaken vinyl). Didn't go for a few years, and when I went back all the cassette bins were gone and replaced by CD bins. Now, it seems no matter when I go, it's a near ghost town. (I assume people are listening to music on-line.)

Another example I find interesting (and disconcerting) is the sports/concert arena. It's amazing to me that the Continental Arena (formerly Byrne Arena), Nassau Memorial Coliseum and Madison Sq. Garden are all seen as obsolete (rendered "obsolete," apparently, by the "need" for luxury "skyboxes"). It just seems like "yesterday" that they were brand new – I have yet to even go to the Nassau Coliseum or the "new" Madison Sq. Garden! Same holds true for all those post Dodger Stadium multi-purpose stadiums (like Shea).

Interesting thought: The Continental Arena opened in 1981, which makes it 24 years old. The Roxy opened in 1927 and was 24 years old in 1951.

As mentioned in previous posts, I think the Roxy seemed older than it was because of its a) historical style of architecture and b) because of a watershed change in taste towards art deco, art moderne and the International Style. Although the prevailing architectural style has changed since 1981, it is less dramatic – so in some ways the Continental Arena looks like it could have been built yesterday.

Sorry about the triple posts guys, not quite I know what happened.

Warren-- no shame: that's how business was done in those days. Both my mom and my wife's mom were "comparison shoppers," mine for Best and Co., hers for Macy's. Their jobs were to shop 'till they dropped at other dept. stores, then report back to their managers about what the competition was doing. Occasionally they were supposed to gush exuberantly about inferior products in hopes that rival stores would stock up on those products and infuriate their regular customers.

Benjamin & Vito: I think this site had some technical problems around 3:30 PM, EST. I could not get onto the site at all for about 5 minutes.

Benjamin: I agree with you totally that the end of The Roxy and other great movie palaces was simply due to the rapid almost mind bogglingly quick change in audience preferences and such. Somewhere on this site, someone wrote how great Times Square was in 1968, clean, bright, lots of things to do and then JUST TWO YEARS LATER...it was seedy (wish I could remember where this was written.)

Audiences tastes are so fickle. They change slowly as a new medium comes along but if it's a medium, like TV, that feels inevitable, the medium it's replacing (and all its support like the movie palaces) are doomed.

Your example about LP's, the cassettes (and don't forget 8 track!) and CD's is well taken. Just a mere 5 years ago, a car with a CD player was considered top of the line, radical! Now you know what a car has to have (audio wise) to be considered "radical"? An MP3 player! Walkmans are sooooooooooo out. They're antiques. The IPODS (MP3 players) are the HOT thing now.

I understand that in the next five years, cell phones will be able to receive satellite TV!!!

So, you could say what does this have to do with The Roxy? Everything. The Roxy and other movie palaces were victims of the ever changing entertainment options.

What I find truly sad and is something that I miss from my childhood is the warm, fuzzy, comforting feeling I got from being in a large, single screen movie house COLLECTIVELY watching a great film with a bunch of "strangers". Now everyone watches what they want independently with little or no shared interaction.

The RCMH gauged hold-overs by how many reserved seats were sold in advance. We didn't buy for the same day. We asked for dates a week or two from then. After purchasing the tickets, we gave them away to friends, relatives, or whatever. Many Paramount employees participated in this, because we couldn't risk being recognized by RCMH cashiers if we turned up too often.

Vito wrote: "In fact, Mr.Newman did not write the CinemaScope extension until a few months later. Does anyone remember which film was the first to present the Fox Fanfare with the CinemaScope extension? Come on now Warren, I know you know the answer to this one."

OK Vito........I can't wait for Warren to reply. The suspense is killing me.
Was the first Fox fanfare with the extension "River of No Return"? And was it written by Alfred Newman or Lionel Newman?

Somewhere on this site, someone wrote how great Times Square was in 1968, clean, bright, lots of things to do and then JUST TWO YEARS LATER...it was seedy (wish I could remember where this was written.)

I would have to disagree on Times Sq. though. While it is true that it did change signficantly at the end of the 1960s, it is a tremendous stretch to say that it was clean, bright, etc. before that. Most historians say that Times Sq. first developed a seedy, raffish reputation during the depression and just never recovered. The downward spiral just seemed to intensify in the late 1960s (with the downward spiral of the rest of NYC).

Better examples of severe sudden change might be the change in the Grand Concourse in the late 1960s (so many people describe double parked moving vans with many people moving to the enormous, just being finished Co-Op City.

Another remarkable fast change is the area around the Tower Records I just mentioned. I couldn't believe my eyes. One summer you could go there on a Sunday and the streets would be completed deserted. It seemed like the next year, or maybe two years at most, the place was significantly different -- with lots and lots of stores and shoppers!

Many friends and I have had long conversations about what has happened to the movie palaces. Certainly there are many more options for entertainment today than we had a few years back, the cost of a movie ticket has skyrocketed, real estate is to expensive to support a single screen theatre, and most plexs have ample free parking as opposed to the local palace which may depend on street parking. With all due respect to CConnolly's remarks about collectivly watching a movie, many people hate going to the movies due to todays audience members who seem to have lost respect for others by talking out load, receiving cell phone calls etc.In addition, there are simply
to many screens. Movie palaces need exclusive engagements to fill all those seats. It's a problem with many parts, but sadly the bottom line, of course, is movie palaces are gone forever

Benjamin: go to virtually anywhere in the world and you will see the marked changes that can happen seemingly overnight.

Hempstead LI, in just 20 years (say 1955 to 1975), went from a cute-as-hell village with great shopping, theaters, nightlife etc. to an out and out slum.

Now days, take Harlem. In 1995, a brownstone could be purchased for only $85,000. Today the same one is worth over $300,000. There was an article in the NY Times about this.

Areas are always changing. Today's slum is tomorrow's HOT real estate. And vice versa.

As far as Times Square is concerned, I read the book "The Devil's Playground" which is all about Times Square. The author there argues that Times Square's slow, downward spiral began around 1927 when the first carnival like show opened (including a flea circus!) whcih displaced one of the early, upscale lobster houses. Yes, the Great Depression really kicked off it's decline with the burlesque houses.

Today, to me, Times Square has redefined itself yet again. It's really nothing more now that a glorified, mythic "downtown" with a lot of office buildings that empty out at 5:00 PM. The foot traffic is really just a bunch of tourists looking to see Times Square. But aside from the Broadway theaters and the chain restaurants, technically speaking, there's really not much to DO there now.

In defense of the Odd Couple's run even if Paramount were papering the 1rst Mezz(3,000 tickets a day?)you don't think the Music Hall knew what was going on? The Music Hall had it's own tricks. And then what about the additional 5,000 seats a perf? Did it keep the third Mezz permanently closed except at holiday time? Was then the Music Hall also lying to Variety about the grosses? (Though I think that sometimes everybody did. Especially for roadshows playing to empty houses.) But the people at Variety had been to the Rodeo a few times themselves. And why would years later a manager and cashier lie to me about the crowds a film brought in? There was really no reason for it.
I'm sure what Paramount was doing had been done for years by all the studios. What probably counted most were the general admission sales concerning a films longevity. Otherwise you would have had Two For the Road with a 14 week engagement. But boy the Hall pulled that one fast.

CC I probably made that comment about Times Square Christmas '68 somewhere. It was dazzling. Then by autumn '70 you could take a home movie of the place and have it come out Taxi Driver.

The Hall pulled "Two for the Road" with Audrey Hepburn fast? Why? Was it too radical for the time? Too adult?

It's not a bad movie at all. VERY sixties, yes.

More to the point, did some theaters (and studios)lie about the groses and the tickets sold to some of the roadshow engagements? I can't imaging crapola roadshows like "Song of Norway" doing very well.

But this type of trickery is done today. The studios point out what a "winner" of a year they had this year with record grosses. BUT...a very big point that is not clearly mentioned is the fact that the actual NUMBER of tickets is down every single year. They just keep upping the cost of the movie tickets. In NYC, it's now $10. And for the garbage they're putting out? Pitiful.

I don't know how my name got dragged into a discussion of movie music, but yes, "River of No Return" is claimed to be the first with the Fox CinemaScope "extension music." It was the sixth Fox-Scope movie to be shown at the Roxy, and during the period when stage shows were suspended. It ran from April 30th through May 19th, 1954.

When I worked in Paramount Pictures publicity, we always added 15% to whatever theatrical grosses we reported. The only exception was grosses at RCMH, which insisted on sending out its own press releases. Those were also padded, but to a lesser extent. Needless to say, if business was NSG, we didn't send out any press releases, but still added 15% if a trade paper requested the information. Variety tended to average out reports that it got from distributors and theatres, but the other "trades" usually published the distributor's version since they depended on them more for advertising.

More Roxy pictures here:
http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/usa/usa_nyc_roxy.htm

Warren-- the way accountants juggle figures nowadays, nothing means anything. 15% seems so modest. Our current national president, unelected until last Nov., is a master at the art. But all of you in NYC know that already. The rest of us, as we prepare our tax returns, are discovering the implications. At the old Roxy, the audience spoke with its feet: we either entered the gates, or we didn't. Some of us coughed up a few quarters for the betterment of all.

Re: the interesting link posted by lostmemory (showing four postcards from the Roxy):

I found the third and fourth postcards to be especially interesting. I liked the third because it was an un-retouched photo -- so many postcards from that era seem to be half photo and half painting. This third postcard also showed a very unusual and interesting close-up view of the theater. The fourth postcard was interesting and "sad" because it shows that already in the mid-1940s they were fooling around with the original interior design in order to "modernize" it.

Re: Change, Times Sq. and the Movie Palace

To clarify my original posts, I was talking about a "golden era" followed by a very sudden change (kind of like the sudden extinction of the dinosaurs), which is what seems to me to be the story of the movie palace (doing well one year, and then there's a fast decline during a relatively short period -- then demolition!). In terms of the other comparisons mentioned, things are going along just "chipper" then all of a sudden, seemingly out of nowhere, "pow!" -- there's TV (cutting short the reign of radio); there are jet planes (cutting short the reign of the trans-Atlantic ocean liner); there are cassettes (cutting short the reign of vinyl); there are luxury boxes (cutting short the reign of arenas like Continental Airlines); etc.

For me, the interesting point is that when people talk about movie palaces they seem to forget that there are other, similar examples that can help put the decine of movie palaces into a larger perspective.

The sudden change (within only one or three years) of "NoHo" (catalyst: Tower Records?) and the Grand Concourse (catalyst: Co-Op City?) also seem to be examples of this pattern.

However, from the little I know of Hempstead, it seems to me whatever significant changes occurred, happened over a longer period of time (apparently, as has been pointed out, the change occurred over a twenty year period). And Harlem doesn't seem to be a good example of sudden change either because it has always had some very nice areas (Sugar Hill and Strivers Row, etc.) and even today there are plenty and plenty of places that still have not been revitalized. So the change in Harlem 1) hasn't really been all that dramatic (once one discounts wishful thinking and media hype) and 2) it hasn't really happened all that suddenly either (or because of some particular catalyst).

In terms of Times Sq., while there were indeed downward changes in the late 1960s, they really weren't all that sudden or dramatic -- the area was still pretty bad before 1968, and had been going steadily downhill for nearly forty years! Before 1968, Times Sq. was generally thought of as a center of the sex trade, a place that was run down, dirty and dangerous and after 1968 it was still seen that way -- it was only a change of degree, not of kind. But the difference between pre-Depression Times Sq. and post-Depression Times Sq. appears to have been a dramatic change in kind -- and in a relatively brief period too (catalyst: the Great Depression). (Illustration: in terms of all kinds of stage shows being produced, I think in the year just before the Depression there were some incredible number of new shows produced that year -- something like 225. After the Depression it dropped to something like 25! Sorry, don't have the reference handy, and I think it refers to more than just Broadway plays and musicals.)

I disagree with the idea that the opening of a carnival like show and the closing of a lobster palace illustrates the decline of the Times Sq. area in 1927. Rather, it seems to me that it is an illustration of how the area was maturing and diversifying. In pre-depression years, like 1927, the area was actually booming -- millions upon millions of dollars were still being invested in the area (including the millions spent on the brand new wonder of the world -- the Roxy!). Yes, one lobster palace at one location might have closed, but very expensive restaurants were still springing up all over the area. So this is not, in my opinion, necessarily an illustration of decline, but rather an illustration of diversification and maturation.

Also have to disagree that the "new" Times Sq. (post re-vitalization) and the "old" Times Sq. (1920s, 1930s, etc.) are as different in the ways that many critics make them out to be. While I do believe they are differences, I don't believe it is because there was more to do in the old Times Sq. People seem to forget that the old Times Sq. had office buildings, chain restaurants and tourist attractions too. (Even the movie palaces were part of chains!)

Vito: you're right about today's Fox fanfare. It doesn't have the impact of the original orchestration we heard in, say, "The King and I" (1956), which was perfect. I can't figure out why Fox made changes and so-called improvements in something that never needed any. Maybe some future Fox exec will change it back again someday.

To CC- I think Two for the Road only played 3 weeks which for an Audrey Hepburn picture in the spring was a major disaster. Donen didn't even want it there(I got to meet him once and he said it was his favorite of his non musical films.) The Hall NY audience didn't like it and the tourists for some reason were not interested in a salute to Canada. So then Barefoot in the Park comes in and blows everything out of the water. Another cashier told me she started at the Hall during this engagement and could not believe how people just kept coming. The work was nonstop.

Vincent-- a month or so ago you mentioned restaurants near the Roxy as an important part of the neighborhood and of the ambience associated with attending the show. You specifically mentioned Ho-Ho's Chinese Restaurant. Thanks for that note. In the late '50s and early '60s, my budget was leaner than my waistline, but I do recall some gustatory experiences.

Yes, Ho-Ho occupied the second floor between 6 and 7 Aves on W 50: its slogan was “After the show, dine at Ho-Ho.” But the place for me was the Automat on the same block (twenty-five cents for macaroni and beans; five cents for coffee: I could sometimes swing that). A bee-line from the Roxy or RCMH took you to either.

Gala occasions and a flush wallet brought a choice of French or Italian on the north side of W 49 between 6th and 7th. The former (help! I forgot the name! Heh—wait: it was Le Champlain!), a big, bustling, two-level basement with travel posters on the walls, offered a $2.75 prix fixe of four courses from a crowded menu (hors d’oeuvre; entrée; salad; and cheese or dessert), with optional beaujolais at 25 cents per glass, served on checkered tablecloths.

For the same price, its white-linen, low-lit Italian competitor a few doors down the block, Louis (not Luigi), offered three courses with a side of spaghetti (antipasto or soup; secondo piatto; cheese and fruit or dessert; chianti at 25 cents per). And then there was the sublime Luigino on W 48, diagonally across from the Cort Theater, offering a la carte spaghetti for 95 cents and meat or fish for $1.25, on granite tables in wooden booths set against mirror-lined walls. Opera fans livened the crowd there around midnight, after performances at the old Met or City Center. Yum.

Now was Manhattan during the middle of the Twentieth Century the greatest place in the history of the world or what.

The "modernization" of the Roxy's interior included a hideous re-draping of the stage and surrounding area with fabrics from Dazian's, the famous company that had been serving the theatrical industry since 1842. A photo can be seen on page 974 of the 1943 Film Daily Year Book, though I believe the work was actually done around 1938-39, to prepare the Roxy for the touristic hordes expected for the New York World's Fair. I think that the Dazian's curtains were finally removed when the Roxy installed CinemaScope.

Yes, and there's a phoyo of the Dazian treatment in Marquee 2.3 (1979): page 16. The caption reads: "This is the Roxy? Well, yes. We couldn't bring ourselves to include this photo in the special Roxy issue [Marquee 2.1 (1979)]. However, since several inquiries were made as to just what did the Roxy look like when it got the drape treatment by 20th Century-Fox in 1937, we now share the horrors with you. And now you know. Ben Hall always referred to it as 'Mae West's boudoir.' Which is about as good a description as any. This photo was made during the run of 'Wilson' in 1944, and that is Fred Waring and his orchestra on stage. [Photo from the Bill Savoy Collection]."

The treatment came down during the remodelling for Ice Colorama in Dec. '52, and up went a permanent golden contour-curtain arrangement with sixteen swags (two more than at RCMH)that completely covered the Spanish retablo. Additional floor-length aquamarine drapery covered the rest of the proscenium up to the choral staircases. The only photo I know of appears in Theatre Catalog (1954), p. 212.

That's interesting information, BoxOfficeBill, about the last draping of the ROXY, and I, for one, have never seen a photo of that era you mention as being in Dec. of '52. Since it has not been possible to post photos here for years now, perhaps you can scan that photo in the Theatre Catalog you mention and submit it to Cinema Tour at 'newsroom@cinematour.com' and maybe that way we can see it there through a link later posted here.

That's interesting information, BoxOfficeBill, about the last draping of the ROXY, and I, for one, have never seen a photo of that era you mention as being in Dec. of '52. Since it has not been possible to post photos here for years now, perhaps you can scan that photo in the Theatre Catalog you mention and submit it to Cinema Tour at 'newsroom@cinematour.com' and maybe that way we can see it there through a link later posted here.

To answer a question from Vincent several weeks ago, regarding the PLAZA in Sydney with its 91 ft CINERAMA screen: built in 1933 in Spanish galleon style it was very ornate inside and out and a n original single level design; held 1500 seats and showed RKO and FOX action pix. This included Republic who released thru FOX here, so pix like JOHNNY GUITAR or SLIGHTLY SCARLETT, or THE BLACK ROSE etc. In 1953 cinemascope was installed in the 2200 seat Regent opposite (built 1928) with THE ROBE opening there, and simultaneously in the Plaza with HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE. The theatres were owned by Fox so luxury fitouts and previews and premieres were held to these two showcases. The Plaza then became the home of luxury musicals playing THE KING AND I, CAROUSEL etc (but not SOUTH PACIFIC, SOUND OF MUSIC or CLEOPATRA which went to the revamped Mayfair nearby) The proscenium at the Plaza was so big that a 55 ft c'scope fitted within it. TV did not happen in Australia until September 1956 so the mindset was that if the cinemas were renovated and made sensational the TV intro would be less painful if the public were dazzled by the cinemas' overwhelming quality. Practically every cinema, city or suburban underwent luxury renovations for the intro of Cinemascope in 1954. However, by early 1957 the industry was clearly in trouble and in 1958 hundreds of cinemas with massive luxury renovations were closed and most immediately bulldozed. Most in the suburbs became petrol stations or supermarkets. The city theatres decided to again re vamp and the Plaza became a CINERAMA house in 1958 opening with THIS IS CINERAMA. The screen was wall to wall, strips of plastic, and was hat shaped, curving inwards into what was the old proscenium space and flattening out to the very edges of each wall. It was an absolute monster screen. Immediately hugely successful and with the most expensive ticket price ever: 19 shillings and 6pence: about $2 Australian or about $2.70 USD. It worked like IMAX does today and the Plaza settled in for a 15 year run of CINERAMA pix: Each usually ran about a year. I personally saw THIS IS CINEMRAMA, CINERAMA HOLIDAY, SOUTH SEAS ADVENTURE, WINDJAMMER, HOW THE WEST WAS WON, these were with the 3 projectors. MAD MAD MAD WORLD was the cimerama single strip and the screen was about 15% smaller. However, the 70mm was about the same size, so when it swapped between the various screen sizes and processes, almost all the screen was always used. If the screen wasn't visually stupendous enough, the endless red curtain had thousands of small yellow spots! Mid 60s saw HALLELUAH TRAIL, BATTLE OF THE BULGE, GRAND PRIX, 2001 SPACE ODYSSEY, reissues of WEST SIDE STORY, SAND PEBBLES, and other mainstream 70mm pix. They used to show the advertising on a small screen then the trailers on a bigger size and to gasps from the audience the masking went out and out and up and up as the logo and opening filled your vision. It was just sensational. Ticket prices hit $3 in 1973 and it reverted to alot of ordinary films and played titles like ALL THIS AND WORLD WAR 2, OKLAHOMA CRUDE, TAXI DRIVER, and occasionally a 70mm release PAPILLON, TOWERING INFERNO and LUCKY LADY...or a 70mm reissue like THE PROFESSIONALS, but alot of 2 weekers in small widescreen 1.85/1: RED SUN, or CARRIE. Fox used it alot to show industry special events of to impress critics with a dud. By then the seating was 1117. Colour TV was introduced here in 1975 and just wrecked every cinema in the country. Business was so bad everywhere for 3 years that we lost almost every luxury cinema, city and suburbs. In 1976 the horrible HOYTS 7 cinema complex was built almost opposite and in one infamous single week in early 1977 this company closed 11 Sydney cinemas on the one night. In 1976 there was a CINERAMA and 70mm festival for several weeks which (secretly) hinted at the closure of this georgeous palace. Most of the above titles got one last airing. The Plaza had a tragic end showing MR BILLION on its smallest sized screen. It became a roller disco then McDonalds hamburgers, part of which it is today. The entire auditorium was lost and just the foyer survives, smelling of Big Macs. It is still mourned today, along with the Regent opposite, demolished in a scandal in 1988 that still gets media airplay today.

I spoke too soon regarding sending photos to CinemaTOUR since CinemaTREASURES is not now accepting photos. It turns out that CinemaTOUR is in the same boat now: Adam Martin, the honcho there, says in the current FORUMS (www.CinemaTour.com) that he cannot accept any more photos for the foreseeable future. It seems that he is 20,000 (!) photos behind, so no more for now. I will ask Theatre Historical Society if their limited server space can accomodate BoxOfficeBill's ROXY photo, but we can't count on that. I guess that lots of photos just take up too much expensive space, more's the pity!

Heartbreaking post paulb. Excellent but heartbreaking.

Heartbreaking post paulb. Excellent but heartbreaking.

In its first full week of operation in March, 1927, the Roxy grossed $125,927 with "The Love of Sunya" and stage show, according to Variety, which listed the seating capacity as 6,250. In the same period, the Roxy's nearest and largest rival, the 5,450-seat Capitol, grossed $56,200 with "The Show" and stage revue. Both theatres had the same price scale of 50 cents to $1.50. The Roxy's inaugural program held over for a second week and grossed $95,000. The Capitol changed to "The Demi-Bride" with stage show and grossed $52,000 in that same week. The Roxy's high for 1927 was for the week ending August 20th, when "What Price Glory?" and stage show grossed $144,267, which was claimed to be a new world's record for any movie theatre. The Capitol's high for 1927 was during the week ending October 15th, with a gross of $95,300 for "Road to Romance" and stage show.

The Roxy played at least one movie from Republic Pictures, but it was a major "A" production, "Dark Command," starring John Wayne, Walter Pidgeon & Claire Trevor, and directed by Raoul Walsh. When it opened at the Roxy (with stage show) on May 10, 1940, the NYT's Bosley Crowther called it the best western since "Stagecoach" opened the previous year at RCMH. But "Dark Command" lasted only one week at the Roxy and was replaced by "Lillian Russell" and new stage show on May 17. "Stagecoach" didn't do much better at RCMH, where it ran for two weeks in March, 1939.

Didn't the remake also play the Hall? I guess that maybe the only successful western at Radio City was Shane? Perhaps the midtown NY audiences didn't go for westerns especially at the Roxy and the Music Hall.

To the best of my memory, the 1966 remake of "Stagecoach" did NOT play at RCMH. Though the original ran only two weeks, that was one week more than many movies did at RCMH in the 1930s.

When "Dark Command" moved on to the "nabes," it was on the RKO circuit as second feature to WB's "Saturday's Children," so I guess the Roxy booking didn't give it any prestige.

Movie question: "Stagecoach" is one of my favorite films and it's heralded as a total classic, which it is. But since Warren notes that it didn't do well at RCMH, was it considered a box office failure in 1939? That would be a surprise because it's the movie that effectively launched John Wayne's career.

I didn't say that the first "Stagecoach" did not do well at RCMH. It did well enough to hold over for a second week, so the first must have been profitable. I don't know how well it did overall at the boxoffice. It's not listed on the "Top Ten" United Artists releases for 1932-40. #1 was "The Kid From Spain" with $2.6 million in North American rentals. #10 was "Rebecca" with $1.5 million, so "Stagecoach" must have done less than that.

20th-Fox contract star Carole Landis, who wasn't much of a singer or dancer, headed the Roxy stage show that opened August 15, 1943, with "Holy Matrimony" (Monty Woolley & Gracie Fields) on screen. As part of her "act," Landis invited five servicemen in the audience to come on stage and do the jitterbug with her and the Gae Foster Roxyettes. The volunteers were rewarded with $5 each and a kiss from Landis. Although I doubt that there was any connection, she committed suicide five years later, at age 29.

It might have already been mentioned in one of the very many comments that have been made here about this theater, but I thought it worth repeating that there is a wonderfully detailed cut-away scale model of the Roxy (outer and inner lobbies as well as the auditorium and mezzanine foyers) on display at the American Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria Queens (located in the old Kaufman-Astoria Studios complex off Steinway Street on 35th Ave). Aside from the fact that the lighting around the exhibit produces an annoying reflection on the glass partition behind which it sits, if you lean in close, the level of detail in the model is quite breathtaking and well worth the visit to the museum. Not to mention that the museum itself, though rather small, is a very informative and enjoyable place to learn about the history of the moving picture.

During the Roxy's construction, special "lines" were attached to the auditorium ceiling so that if it ever needed repairs, workmen could be hoisted up and no scaffolding would be needed.

Most movie palaces had the holes in the ceiling for "lines" as Warren describes them (except Atmospherics) and these were capped with small discs of metal which were wired to the plaster struts that held up the ceiling. They were painted right along with the ceiling, of course, but if one looks closely, he can often see them still in place, sometimes dangling a bit as the wire loosened over the years. Their intent was really to lower at least 4 such "lines" at a time in order to hoist a scaffold with temporary winches in the attic to effect cleaning or repainting. It is true that a single line could be used to hoist a single man in a 'Bosun's chair', but the main intent was for a two or three man scaffold since that would require less positioning as they moved across a ceiling. There is a photo of one being used in the St. Louis FOX in a David Naylor book.

Smart Woman (1931) was the first film played at the famous Roxy Theater in New York City. per the imdb I find this hard to believe if the theater opened in 1927. Perhaps this was the first talkie to play there.

The first movie to play the Roxy (in 1927) was the silent "The Love of Sunya," starring Gloria Swanson. I believe that the first talkie shown at the Roxy was in 1928, a second-run booking of "The Jazz Singer" The only "first" for "Smart Woman" might have been that it was the first RKO release to play the Roxy, but that's only a guess.

Does anyone know if Wings played second run at the Roxy?
As every New Yorker knows it opened at the Criterion 1(as in first not as in the United Artist multiplex or the art deco beauty we knew for so many years.) But there is an old Petticot Junction with Arlen and Rodgers where Uncle Joe says it opened at the NY Roxy rather than the theater in Hooterville.

They might have just taken liberty in the show and said the Roxy. Because the Criterion in Times Square was not as well known as the Roxy, Rivoli or the Music Hall.

Your right but that kind of thing really bugs me like in Annie where Camille is playing at the Music Hall. It ruins the movies credibility(in fact I believe even Pauline Kael complained about it in her review of the movie.)

In the "Aviator" it showed Howard Hughes watching some of the "Jazz Singer" at the Chinese Theatre. You can see that its the same theatre they used for the premiere of "Hells Angels".

But That's Hollywood for you.

Your're right. In the final shot of Sound of Music don't the Von Trapps escape into... GERMANY?!!!

I doubt that Paramount's "Wings" ever played at the Roxy, though I have no actual proof. But "Wings" opened at the Criterion in August, 1927, and ran there for more than a year, until November, 1928, when it was moved for five weeks to the Paramount-affiliated Rialto Theatre. By that time, silent movies like "Wings" were becoming outmoded, so I doubt that it had any more Broadway/Times Square bookings except possibly with vaudeville at Loew's State before it moved on to the "nabes."

Jim Rankin has asked whether the contour curtain at the Roxy from Dec. '52 to its closing was fully functional. Well, yes, if by "functional" you mean that it rose and fell with a waterfall effect before and after each segment of the performance.

I remember that it moved at a slow, even rate but, unlike the one at RCMH, did not appear capable of being opened by only some of its cables to create different patterns. It draped in eighteen swags (four more than the fourteen at RCMH), some of unequal width as three narrow ones framed each of the sides and two extra-wide ones dominated the center.

The top valance, which shamefully covered the original Spanish retablo (you could still see some of the latter from the upper balcony), supported the curtain in an undulating design that curved in, then out, then in again, flaring outwards at each side, so that the curtain hit the stage in a wavy line.

I also temember that the curtain, lightly fringed on bottom, did not exactly touch the stage, likely because a puddling ice surface might have soaked any portions that did. As a result, during entre-acts you could see the movement of stagehands' feet behind the scant inch of exposure. The same was true of the black masking at the bottom of the screen: about ten minutes before the end of the film, you could see that stagelights had been turned on and that stagehands' feet were scurrying in preparation for the show.

Contributors to this site have rightly remarked that the Roxy was famous for allowing portions of the screen to remain dark at the beginning and ends of screenings. That's true. The contour curtain rose and fell majestically, but the angle of projection from the upper balcony was so sharp that the moving fabric were cast deep shadows over the screen. Lavender-lit traveller curtains operated simultaneously behind the contour, but the shadows still remained.

Another problem was glare from the ice stage reflecting upon the screen; to remedy it, a sixty-foot-long rubber mat lay beneath the screen during the feature film. It disappeared before the Fox Movietone News and coming attractions which preceded the stage show. For all that, the projection and sound were flawless, with the latter better to my ears than its echoic equivalent at RCMH.

And here's a photo from Theatre Catalog magazine, 11th ed., 1952-53, p. 212:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/roxy1.jpg

The photo was taken between the Roxy's remodelling in Dec. '52 and the advent of CinemaScope in Sept. '53. The screen is shaped in the conventional old 1.33 ratio. You can see the ruber mat on the ice stage beneath it.

And you can see that the Roxy did not use standard screen masking at this time. The picture sheet, framed in the thinnest of black borders, descended in front of softly lit blue curtains, and was advertised as reducing harsh contrasts and being soothing for the eyes. Upon introducing CinemaScope, the Roxy adopted conventional black adjustable masking for the new medium.

BoxOfficeBill is to be commended on providing such illuminating information that is all to often lost to history; we are the richer for it. The photo he links to does show the contour curtain I asked him about, since in many theatres such was only mounted as a decorative border since it is much cheaper to rig that way. I should have know that there would be only the best at the preeminent ROXY. Thanks, Bill.

I know this is going to stir up an uproar among the Roxy-ites here, and I apologize for that up front, but in the interest of wide-screen historia, which is my field, i feel compelled to ask this question: does anybody have photographs of the Roxy CineMiracle installation in 1958. I know that most Roxy fans hated it, but i really would like to see photos. At least one person on this thread has acknowledged that he saw the presentation. BGW, photos of the Hollywood Chinese also appreciated. Thanks loads, Vince

These are the bookings at the Roxy from June through December, 1941. Except where noted, all of the movies were from 20th Century-Fox. Also, except where noted, most of the stage shows were titled "Showtime at the Roxy" and did not feature "big name" performers: "Blood and Sand" and stage show; "Man Hunt" and ss topped by radio singing star Dennis Day; "Moon Over Miami" and ss of outstanding winners of Major Bowes' "Amateur Hour" radio program; "Dance Hall" and ss; Paramount's "The Parson of Panamint" and ss augmented with the Peters Sisters, Bobby Mays, and Rolly Rolls; "Charley's Aunt" and ss; "Wild Geese Calling" and ss; "Sun Valley Serenade" and ss; "A Yank in the RAF" and ss topped by Miss America of 1941 and the Nicholas Brothers; "Belle Starr" and ss; "Weekend in Havana" and ss; Columbia's "You Belong to Me" with Buck & Bubbles heading stage show; "Rise and Shine" and ss; "Confirm or Deny" and ss "Major Bowes' New Stars of 1942"; and "Remember the Day" and Christmas ss. The "Showtime at the Roxy" revues were usually emceed by Archie Robbins and always included the participation of the Gae Foster Girls and conductor Paul Ash's Roxy Orchestra.

Box Office Bill wrote: "but the angle of projection from the upper balcony was so sharp that the moving fabric were cast deep shadows over the screen."
Bill: The projection room at the Roxy was set in the front of the balcony because Roxy himself thought a "head-on" throw with no angle gave a better picture quality. Could you clarify? Was there another projection booth?
I chatted a while ago with a former New York projection equipment installer who said this "head-on" throw in the Roxy caused shadows. He also said it caused ghosting inside the lens which sometimes affected what was seen on the screen.
Was this contour arrangement better than the original huge curtains? I always thought there was nothing like seeing a big curtain the width of the stage, opening and closing a movie.

My memory is that, instead of using the projection room at the front of the balcony, the Roxy used one at the top rear, perhaps for the very reasons of ghosting that you cite.

I recall rear projection for Disney's "Peter Pan" in Feb. '53, "Call Me Madam" in April '53, and "Bus Stop" in Sept. '56, when I sat in that vast balcony. But I also recollect claims that CinemaScope55 was projected from the front booth for "Carousel" in Feb. '56 and "The King and I" in June '56. I saw the latter there then and I remember an elongated flood of light issuing from the front booth.

The contour arrangement produced an impressive effect, especially when accompanied by traveler curtains behind it. As I strain to recall the pre-'52 old days, I believe that the great red curttain parted in opera-style fashion, with tewo giant swags. But I might be confusing it with the drapery treatment that framed the stage throughout the forties..

And here's a photo of the '40's drapery treatment:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/roxy4.jpg

The photo comes from the magazine "Marquee," vol. 2, no. 3 (1979), p. 16.

It seems like for most of its history the Roxy audience was looking at drapes. When were its magnificent proscenium and decorative boxes covered up never to be seen again?

Check out this nice website:

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/PALACE/credit.html

I hope you can see some of this stuff. There's a particularly fascinating floor plan of the Roxy. They show everything but they down show the full auditorium. Still, it's fascinating.

Go back one "level" on the site I gave above and you'll get quite a very, very nice website on movie palaces. They have an extremely nice photograph of the interior of the Roxy. For the first time, I really get a sense of how MASSIVE that sucker was.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/PALACE/

From a brief glance, it seems to me that about 80% of the photos (and possibly the info, too) on the virginia.edu websites are but a brief sampling from the wonderful Ben Hall book, the "Best Remaining Seats."

For example, (and I'm not sure of this, since I don't have my copy handy), I believe that the "floor plan" (really a "section") that is shown on the website is a scan of page 82 from the Ben Hall book, and that the rest of the drawing, the missing "floor plan" of the auditorium itself (properly speaking, more of an "elevation"), can be found on page 83. PLUS on page 128, the Hall book has a genuine floorplan of the (first floor) of the Roxy theater. (These were the diagrams discussed in my January 7, 2005 post, above.)

For those of you who live in or around New York City: a few weeks ago I was at the Strand Bookstore (Broadway and 12th St.) and saw that they had about two or three used copies of "Best Remaining Seats" for sale. I didn't check out the price, but the Strand is famous for its great prices. (They also had a seemingly brand new copy of the "Cinema Treasures" book for 1/2 price.)

I think anyone interested in movie palaces would really be floored by the Ben Hall book -- there is so much unbelievable stuff in it (like reproductions of newspaper ads and pages from opening night commemorative booklets, etc.)

P.S. -- My post was not meant as a criticism of the virginia.edu website, as it does properly credit the photos and, by putting them on the web, it does make the photos of an out-of-print(?) book available for wider discussion on the internet.

Also, the pages I mentioned were from the edition that I have. The virginia.edu website may be referring to pages of a different edition of the book.

Benjamin does well to give due credit to the BEST REMAINING SEATS... since it is still the Landmark book it was when first published in 1961. The late author, Ben Hall, would have been delighted at the preservation of so many fine movie palaces around the nation and around the globe partially due to his book. Yes, the book is out of print, but if one looks, one can still find the first edition which was issued only in hardbound, and that edition is the only one with the 5 color plates (frontispiece and 4 pages); the captions for which were retained in later editions even though they were gone due to the latter day publishers being too cheap to reprint them.

One need not avoid the two subsequent editions of 1975 and 1987 in softbound since they contain all of the sparkling text of the gifted writer, but also revised captions for some photos for those theatres that had passed away in the intervening years. If you will miss the color plates that much, go to any library having the first edition and COLOR copy the color plates and insert them into the other edition you buy and, Voila!, you have a duplicate of the first edition! Do not miss reading his wonderful way with words which will infect you with his enthusiasm for his subject. If you can't find it at local book stors, go to www.Amazon.com and type in the title; they often have used copies available.

Although I have always been fascinated by movie palaces, probably the two publications that piqued my interest were Ben Hall's 'Best Remaining Seats' and David Naylor's 'American Movie Palaces'. I have reread them many times (often enough that I recognized immediately that the captions and the cross sectional floor plan of the Roxy on the site must have been 'borrowed' from Hall's book). I had to wait a long time to get my own copy since it was not available locally, even several years ago. While in California I left an order with a book store in Pasadena which specializes in searching for out of print and hard to find publications. Approximately a year later they contacted me that they had a used copy of the first edition available. I'm sure there are many book stores that offer a similar service.

Unfortunately Hall's book did little in the short run to end the slaughter. In the few years following its publication we were to lose 3 of the great houses Hall featured; the NY Paramount, the Capitol and the SF Fox. Then years later the Strand and the Rivoli.

As Vincent says, it is sad how many palaces we lost even after Hall's book came out in 1961, but we must remember that it was not for lack of trying on his part, and that the deals to clear the plots of land for new construction were already underway, publically or privately. Yes, perhaps if the book had come out ten years earlier it might have engendered more support for the great palaces Vincent mentions, but somehow I doubt it. Historic Preservation was only just getting off the ground in the '60s and in the 50s our nation was experiencing the brute force vitality of being the only nation to come out of World War II in anywhere near good shape, and with a booming economy flush with the arrogance of Modernism, few would have looked on the 'old' movie palaces with any sentiment. They were after all, decaying and badly faded after regular maintenance stopped with their divestiture from the film studios which had been paying handsomely to keep them up, and movie palaces are not at all practical: they need LOTS of upkeep! Ben M. Hall was a man ahead of his time, so we must be thankful that his immensely readable and very heavily illustrated book came to us at all.

"flush with the arrogance of Modernism"

You have no idea how that one statement pretty much says it all.

From talking to my parents and architects and my own humble research, I've come to the conclusion that the post WWII years, architecturally speaking, were one in which they threw the baby out with the bathwater. What I mean is that, yes, there were structures that frankly had oulived their usage and should've been destroyed. But there was eventually a wholesale destruction, especially during the 1960's where too many viable structures were simply destroyed for money's sake.

People thought that the sleek modernism was somehow reflective of a new hope...a new brighter future. This generation was fed this propaganda during the 1939 World's Fair. They pictured these old structures (including Victorian homes) as gloomy places and out of date. Unfortunately, the lack of maintenance on these places (as one poster for The Roxy states above, it looked "tired" in the late 50's) only helped to convince people that placed like the Roxy should be gotten rid of. And what was put in place of the Roxy? Has anyone ever seen it? I see it every single day and I still cannot believe what a pedestrian and completely unimaginative building they put in it's place. Truly pathetic.

We are culturally still in this same frame of mind. Look at Times Square. Look at what is happening at Astor Place and lower Broadway. Look at the modern buidldings going up in London and Paris. If anything it is getting worse. Its seems that we who speak here are in a derided minority.

HERE'S AN INTERESTING/FUNNY ARTICLE FROM THE APRIL 17 NY TIMES ABOUT THE NY MOVIE GOING...

'The Aristocrats,' Coming Soon to a Theater Near You
By DAMIEN CAVE

INUTES after I arrived at an Upper West Side multiplex on the opening weekend of "The Passion of the Christ" last year, a 40-ish man sitting beside me threatened to knock out a gentleman who had cracked into his knees by leaning back in an obviously broken chair. Both of them cried through the film and exchanged dirty looks afterward.

In the past year I've witnessed an array of such outbursts at theaters around the city. I've watched demanding young couples ask entire rows of people to move so they could sit together and neck. I've listened to teenagers talking on cellphones, crazy people talking to themselves, and not-so-crazy people talking to the screen.

As much as this boisterous expression often makes me long for a DVD and a large-screen television, it also makes me proud. At any moment, New Yorkers are likely to form an ad hoc community, booing at lame dialogue or confronting people who try to cut in line. No other city where I've watched a film, save perhaps Havana, can match New York for its active audience participation.

But the city's moviegoing experience may be poised for a change. In the past few years, a trend of so-called first-class moviegoing has begun to spread. Amenities like assigned seats, waiter service and even piano bars are migrating from London and Tokyo to places like Los Angeles and even Louisville.

In New York, where a taste for pampering is part of our urban DNA, first-class cinema would seem a perfect fit. In fact, the market has already been cracked: since 2003, three theaters in the Loew's 34th Street multiplex have had two rows of assigned, red leather seats that cost about $5 extra, a price that includes access to an usher who delivers concessions.

To a certain extent, the city already tried such an approach decades earlier. In the 1930's, special seating was common at picture palaces like the Roxy, and for decades ushers made sure people sat where they belonged. During the 70's, an upscale theater was installed in the basement of the Plaza, with assigned plush green seats available for an extra $1.50. The Ziegfeld tried assigned seating in the 1990's.

These last two efforts failed. New Yorkers were unwilling to pay extra, or unable to abandon a first-come-first-served mentality. But the climate may be changing. National Amusements, one of the nation's largest theater chains, plans to equip every new multiplex it builds with some form of premium seating; cities from Toledo to Philadelphia already have such amenities.

Could New York be next, I wondered. And if so, would it be treason for me to try to taste the future?

With Loew's 34th Street the only option for a test run, I bought two tickets on Fandango.com for the 8:05 p.m. showing of "Hitch" on the night it opened, and felt prepared to be impressed. Maybe it was nostalgia for the picture palaces. Maybe, despite paying $30.98 for two tickets, I liked knowing that my wife and I could arrive late without fear of kinking our necks in the front row, or fighting our way through the eggbeater of legs and grumbles to reach the only remaining empty seats.

When we saw that the movie was sold out, we felt particularly pleased, though we did wonder a bit sheepishly if we would have to kick people out of our seats. An usher was standing at the two "guest express" rows, so that concern disappeared. Then we showed him our tickets.

"H7 and G7," he said. Then, pointing to my wife, he added: "O.K., you're in this row, and you're behind her."

"Wait," I interrupted. "The seats are not together?"

"No," the usher replied. "I'm sorry."

My wife and I complained. We hemmed, we hawed. We asked if we could sit together and then ask the people who came afterward to move. The usher told us to inquire at the guest services desk. It simply offered us a refund. We declined.

Later, I asked another usher if this sort of thing was common.

"Did you buy your seats from Fandango?" she asked.

"That's the problem," she said. "They just assign you the best seats available. If you want to pick your seats, you have to come to the box office."

Worse, we weren't even allowed to rejoin the general population. And a few minutes after we sat down, a group of three people hammered home the inadequacy of our "premium" choice. The three asked several people to move, and for $5 less per person, they managed to arrive later and sit together in a row only two feet behind me.

Art Levitt, the chief executive of Fandango, said that premium seating was "a pilot program only" and that the company and Loew's were still working out the kinks.

Perhaps my experience was an anomaly. I asked a couple in front me for their opinion. "We love it," the woman said, sipping a $4 soda. Turns out they were from Texas.

Actual New Yorkers were far less complimentary. Out of two dozen people I interviewed, most said they wanted nothing to do with perks like assigned seating.

"If I had all the money in the world, I wouldn't do it," said Carl Goodman, a curator at the American Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, Queens. "Once you're in the theater, there should be no hierarchy."

Devon McGoldrick, a graduate student at Columbia University who was waiting for "Million Dollar Baby" at Loew's West 68th Street theater, added: "I think it's ridiculous. They bring you concessions, right? From a public health perspective, how much lazier can we get?"

BUT a handful disagreed. Several parents said they welcomed the service because it meant they could arrive later and spend less money on baby sitting. Margaret Jones, a manager at Macy's who was waiting to see "Meet the Fockers" in a nonpremium theater at the Loew's 34th, added: "I've been a New Yorker for 30 years. I'm tired of it. I'd rather have some special attention."

My own experience made me side with the critics. But I also left the theater strangely encouraged. The beauty of New York audiences is such that no single gimmick seems to radically alter why we go to the movies or what we do once we get there.

The words of Pauline Kael, the New Yorker critic, came to mind. In 1971, she described a Times Square theater in which an audience was enthralled with the film "Billy Jack." It was a bustling place, she wrote, electric in expectation, and when a character "said there was no place people could get a square deal - not in this country, not in the world - a voice bellowed 'New York!' and the theater shook with laughter, and with solidarity."

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Fifty years after its first release the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences in Los Angeles screened the world premiere showing of Carousel in CinemaScope 55. The film was presented with its original aspect ratio of 2:55.1 with a fully restored 4-track stereo soundtrack. Although the print had its flaws the stereo sound was amazing and it was wonderful finally seeing Carousel as it was originally filmed. The audience burst into applause during the FOX fanfare announcing a CinemaScope 55 presentation.

bobb:
Good to see someone cared enough to present Carousel that way after so long. Any plans to expand the project?

The FOX rep said they are prepping the CAROUSEL print to play various cities for repetory theatres, etc. I consider myself lucky living in LA. Last year I got to see the CinemaScope 55 print of THE KING AND I, and we have several theatres that can play 70MM films and do so at least once a year. Next week the historic Alex Theatre in Glendale will screen a Technirama print of AUNTIE MAME.

Do you mean an actual horizontal 35mm Technirama print of AMAME?

Unfortunately, I have no advance info re screening of AUNTIE MAME on April 30 in Los Angeles. The ad in the newspaper says "WIDESCREEN TECHNIRAMA." I would assume its a horizontal 35mm print. The historic Alex screens classic films from time to time.

In February, 1947, the Roxy stage show with Betty Grable's "The Shocking Miss Pilgrim" was topped by Peter Lorre, who did a dramatic recitation of Edgar Allan Poe's "The Telltale Heart." Also on the bill were comedian Gil Lamb, singer Evelyn Knight, and unicyclist-juggler Boy Foy, as well as the Gae Foster Roxyettes and the theatre's resident orchestra...In May of that year, for two weeks only, Jack Benny and his "radio gang," including Phil Harris, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, and the Sportsmen Quartet, put on a special stage show, with 20th-Fox's second-rate "The Brasher Doubloon" on screen. At the first show on opening day, Benny's arch-rival, comedian Fred Allen, came running down the aisle and up on stage shouting "Stop it, Stop it! I want my money back!" when Benny started playing "Love in Bloom" on the violin. It was just a stunt for the benefit of newsreel cameramen who were on hand...Several months later, in July, Abbott & Costello played a four-week engagement on the Roxy's stage, supported by Maurice Rocco, Hermanos Williams & Amanda, Audrey Young, the Roxyettes, and resident orchestra. On screen was the Fox Technicolor musical, "I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?," with June Haver & Mark Stevens.

In July, 1942, the Roxy played a rare "move-over" of a film that had already run on Broadway. 20th-Fox's "This Above All," a wartime tearjerker with Tyrone Power and Joan Fontaine, proved such a smash hit at the Astor Theatre at "roadshow prices" that the Roxy presented it for a limited run of two weeks at its usual price scale and a stage show to boot. After that, "This Above All" moved on to the RKO circuit, with "Mexican Spitfire Sees A Ghost" as second feature.

There used to be a Roxy Theatre In Wellington, New Zealand. It was built in 1913 and closed in 1974 then demolished the same year to makeway for a highrise office tower in Manners Street. It used to show continues movies I am not sure what the style of it was but it was a popular movie palace in Wellington, New Zealand. I hope my comment sounds right!

A thought just popped into my head, I wonder what would it cost today to build a theatre like this?, I was guessing too much to even comprehend.

At today's prices, in US dollars, on prime real estate such as the original was built upon, and the to the standards of quality expected in the 1920s, the ROXY would no doubt cost upwards of 350 million dollars. Far lesser quality designs of performing spaces today are being built for upwards of that figure, so it is a nice fantasy to hope that such could come to be, but while a few billionnaires could afford to build such a temple to entertainment with the added features of comfort and safety demanded today, it will never come to be. Some of the craftsmanship of those days is now essentially gone, and everyone involved today would be looking for ways to make it cheaper no matter how much you paid them, for our society of yesteryear had more of what money cannot buy: integrity.

Sorry to go "off-topic," this being the Roxy site and all, but I read some of the other posts regarding the history of the Fox fanfare as well as the first film to include the "CinemaScope extention," so, I was wondering if someone knew the first Fox film NOT use Alfred Newman's fanfare? My best guess was "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir," which had a score by Bernard Herrmann. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks.
P. S.
After the Roxy was demolished in 1960, some of the plush Roxy seats were moved to the New Yorker Theater on Broadway and 89th Street. Something else, if anyone has any interest, I will post an interview I did with a former Gae Foster Roxyette who worked at the theater in the late 30s into the early 40s.

In back issues of Variety, I found a couple of instances in 1947 where the Roxy and Music Hall opened new programs on the same day or within a day of each other. In May, the Roxy with "The Brasher Doubloon" on screen and Jack Benny heading the stage show grossed $148,000 in its first week, while RCMH did only $135,000 with "Great Expectations" and its usual type of stage show. In July, the Roxy with "I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?" on screen and Abbott & Costello topping the stage show grossed $125,000 in its first week, but RCMH suprassed it with $149,000 for the first week of "The Bachelor & The Bobbysoxer" and customary stage revue...In October, the Roxy set a new all-time record for any theatre in the world with "Forever Amber," which grossed $180,500 in its first week (with an abbreviated 25-minute stage show due to the film's lengthy running time). RCMH, then in its third week with "Song of Love" and stage show, did $118,000 in the same period.

Does anyone remember when the Roxy organ was no longer being played during the intervals? I know they used canned music during the late 1950s. Was the organ played during the engagement of "The Robe?" And I know this is off-subject, but when did the Paramount, Capitol and Strand stop using their organs during the interval?

Just a few random bits about this and that: The general admission prices for "The Robe" were as follows weekdays $1 to noon l.50; to 4 and 2.00 after 4pm Saturdays: 1.50 to noon; 2.00 to 3; 2.50 3 to closing. Sunday 2.00 to 1; 2.50 1 to closing. (The Music Hall also adopted a change of price at 3pm on Saturday as opposed to the more popular change at 6pm for other first runs.)
Regarding the accuracy of grosses: Yes grosses were often padded, however other theaters as well as Variety had house checkers which would purchase tickets and check the "Initial" (how many patrons in the house before the start of the first feature on opening day) and do subsequent periodic checks during matinees and evenings. It was easy for savvy checkers to predict and validate the accuracy of the weekly grosses in most cases. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what the gross would be for the week based on the opening day patronage plus a peak during Saturday night and Sunday matinee. As far as holdover figures, The Roxy, unlike the Music Hall (which had a rule of thumb of $88,000 for the first four day (Thurs - Sunday to warrent an extra week for most of the 1940s and 1950s), adhered pretty close to a three-week booking for most features, unless it was something really special like "The Razor's Edge," "Forever Amber" and "Leave Her to Heaven."
As to the question of lines at the Roxy vs the Music Hall: The Roxy would fill up its rotunda with sometimes 2,000 patrons waiting for the next break...rarely necessitating a street line. And the tunnel leading to the balcony could also hold up to 500 patrons. Although it was against the fire laws, another few hundred would snake down the grand staircase to the rotunda. The Music Hall was not designed to hold patrons in its lobby and could only hold a few hundred at best, making long street lines common.

I always assumed the Music Hall always had such long lines because it was just more popular. If the lines were too long at the Hall you went to the Roxy because you knew you'd get in. Also why did such major Fox film as some of the Temple films at her height of popularity, On the Avenue, Anna and the King, and The Ghost and Mrs Muir play at the Hall and not at the Roxy?

In September, 1942, 20th-Fox films opened within a day of each other at the Roxy and RCMH. The Roxy had "Orchestra Wives" with stage show, and RCMH presented "Tales of Manhattan" with stage show. "Orchestra Wives" was the more "commercial" of the two, featuring the hugely popular Glenn Miller Orchestra. "Manhattan" was off-beat, with five episodes and an all-star cast. It seemed more likely to appeal to the "sophisticates" who regularly attended RCMH but shunned the more "common" show palaces like the Roxy, Paramount, and Strand.

Stepale2: I believe "The Song of Bernadette" (1943) was the first Fox film not to use the fanfare. It had a great Alfred Newman score, so maybe Herrmann's "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" was the first non-Newman-scored feature not to use it.

Thanks BillH. Right you are. Newman's score for "Bernadette" must have been the first not use the traditional Fox fanfare, as it came out in 1943. Thanks again :-)

Here is some interesting information on a subject rarely discussed on CT:

In 1927, the J.C. Deagon Company installed a 20 tone bell at this theater. Of the 425 or so worldwide installations, only 2 were at theaters: this one & a 10 tone bell at the Mayfair in Asbury Park, NJ. Pretty impressive company!
Both bells were demolished with their respective theaters

TC's comment about the "bell" is illuminating and I wonder where he found such detail about the installations by Deagon. Lest anyone assume that he is talking about a glockenspiel, the "bell" was a ten thousand pound, 15-foot-high array of tubes which were struck by 'hammers' as soleniods with dampers controlled from the organ console! The photo of them on page 88 the late Ben Hall's landmark book "The Best Remaining Seats: The Story of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" shows why they were referred to most often as "chimes." The previous page claims that there were 21 notes to this indoor carillon, but we won't quibble about the total since it must have been a wondorous sound in any case! I believe that I somewhere read that they were mounted above the ceiling near the stage where a separate division of the organ, called the "Fanfare Organ" was located. I too react with the thought 'what a waste to demolish such with the theatre' but it occurs to me: 'where would one quickly move and install such a massive instrument?!!' Few buildings are large enought to receive a 15-foot-square, ten thousand pound musical instrument.

Carillons, such as the Deagan array in the Roxy, were normally installed in church and clock towers and designed for outdoor use to sound over a large area. Even in the vast space of the Roxy auditorium it must have been overwhelming. I'm not 100% certain but I believe that the carillon in Niagara Falls ON., heard and part of the plot in the film 'Niagara' was built by Deagan. In addition to the huge outdoor carillons such as this one, Deagan built chime arrays used by orchestras, as well as xylophones. I recall reading that during demolition the carillon in the Roxy came crashing down with an ear deafening roar and ended up mixed with the general debris. Not a scrap of it was salvaged...what a waste!

In 1988 I was writing a book about Times Square. It ALMOST was published, but for reasons beyond my control, it did not happen. The design layout scheme was cost prohibitive and there were other problems as well, but that's another story. Here are the opening paragraphs from the Roxy chapter-- the photos are missing. The book was meant to be a heavly illlustrated with over 1000 pix, which was part of the problem......

The ROXY
The 1920s were a decade of flamboyance. Herbert Lubin, a film producer turned real estate developer, who was intoxicated by the spirit of the times, wanted to build "the most sumptuous theater in the world” on the corner of 50th Street and Seventh Avenue. To help him realize his dream, Lubin lured "Roxy" Rothafel away from the Capitol by offering to name what was to be known as the “Cathedral of the Motion Picture,” after Roxy--as well as by giving him complete control of the design and operation of the theater-- plus a share of the profits. But Rothafel’s grandiose ideas coupled with architect Walter Ahlschlager's extravagant plans, were too much for Lubin's pocketbook (the cost of the theater escalated from $6,000,000 to $10,000,000) so a week before the Roxy was was to open, Lubin sold his interest to William Fox, head of the Fox Theater chain and the Fox Film Corporation.

Caption: The main entrance was leased from the adjoining Manger Hotel, which was renamed the Taft in 1932.

Caption: There were six boxoffices in the outer lobby.

Caption: The Roxy was often referred to as the "Cathedral of the Motion Picture," and its 50th Street facade was said to resemble the Cathedreal at Valladolid in Italy.

Caption: "Harold, I see my theater like the insisde of a great bronze bowl," Roxy told Harold Rambusch, the theater’s decorator. "Every thing in tones of antique gold. Warm. Very, very rich. Gorgeous."

Caption: (for the shot of the rotunda)
For twenty-five cents anyone could spend a couple of hours in this palacial setting. The rotunda (ushers reportedly would get sacked if they called it a "lobby").and the adjoining foyers could hold 2,500 patrons who might have to wait as long as an hour before being seated in the auditorium. Twelve green marble columns supported a dome from which this twenty-foot chandelier was suspended. The oval-shaped rug was said to be the world's largest and heaviest.
(The best rotunda pic can be found at the Smithsonian.)

Caption (for ground floor plan): Walter Ahlschlager's placement of the auditorium made good use of the Roxy’s irregular plot. The stage, 60 feet deep by 70 feet wide, was divided into four sections, two of which were equipped with elevators. The musicians were seated on an elevator that could be raised up to stage level. When the Roxy opened, there were three Kimbal organ consoles as well as 100 muscians in the pit.

Caption: Most theaters had projection booths directly above the balcony; at the Roxy, they were in front of the mezzenine, insuring a bright and distortion-free picture as the projectors were only 100 feet from the screen. The Roxy's 5,920 seats looked down upon the stage, enabling the entire audience to see the feet of the dancers.
(Photo and neg of proscenium and stairs in photo file B NYPL. Best clipping file for the Roxy is MWEZ + n.c.20,278 and there is a good collection of Partington's performance shots filed under
MFL + n.c. 1829. Early pictures of Roxy are in MFL + n.c.1830)

Backstage, there were five floors of dressing rooms, a costume workroom, rehearsal halls, a projection room, a cafeteria, as well as a hospital, gymnasium, barber shop, plus Roxy's broadcasting studio.

Even at eleven dollars a seat, the opening night was a sell-out. Gloria Swanson, star of The Loves of Sunya," the first motion picture to be shown, recalls the event in her 1980 autobiography:

A limousine arrived for Henri and me at seven-thirty, [Swanson was married to Henri, Marquis de la Falaise, at the time] and the short drive from Sixth Avenue and Fifty-eighth Street to the theater at Seventh Avenue and Fiftieth Street -- ordinarily less than five minutes by car -- took half an hour, owing to the traffic congestion caused by the sea of people that had been building up around the theater since late afternoon. Policeman on horseback spotted our car and slowly cleared the way for us. The driver told Henri that Mayor Walker had put a hundred extra cops on just for the opening and the cops had told him that the crowd in the street numbered well over ten thousand.
When we pulled up under the marquee and got out of the car, a tremendous roar went up. In the blinding glare of a double row of kleig lights trained on the shiny new building, I turned and waived, and before I could turn again and enter the theater, an unstoppable wave of people surged forward and almost knocked us over. In spite of the efforts of the police, we had to fight our way into the lobby in order not to be crushed against the closed doors and walls.
Inside the monumental foyer, in front of an inclined bank of red and white carnations that spelled out his name, Roxy stood with his family, being photographed with celebrities. Henri and I joined them to kiss and shake hands with the people we knew in a steady blaze of flash powder. Roxy had pulled out all the stops. The parade of notables included four U.S. Senators, three U.S. Generals, three consul generals, two borough presidents, the governor of New Jersey, and the minister of Lithuania, as well as Adolph Ochs, Mrs. Otto Kahn, and Mr. and Mrs. Jimmy Walker. The crowd almost broke down the doors when Charlie Chaplin tried to sneak in unnoticed, and they went wild again when they recognized Harold Lloyd and his wife. We stood there for twenty minutes and greeted an endless stream of people with engraved invitations: the Shuberts, Irving Berlin, Lois Wilson, Sport Ward, Hope Hampton, Tommy Meighan, Joe Schenck, Walter Wanger, Wil Hays -- even Jesse Lasky. Then we all took our seats down front in the great auditorium, and the show began.

Chimes were the first thing one heard on opening night. After the third note, the auditorium went black. Then a spotlight picked up a mysterious figure dressed in a monk's robe who read the invocation:
"Ye portals bright, high and majestic, open to our gaze the path to Wonderland, and show us the realm where fantasy reigns, where romance, where adventure flourish. Let every day's toil be forgotten under thy sheltering roof--O glorious, mighty hall--thy magic and thy charm unite us all to worship at beauty's throne...Let there be light!"

And was there light. And how! The Roxy's lighting plant had three times the capacity of any other theater and used enough power to light a city of a quarter of a million.

(Include a short description of the first show. (or the program)

As the first nighters were filing out, Roxy proudly exclaimed, "Take a look at this stupendous theater, it's the Roxy and I'm Roxy and I'd rather be Roxy than John D. Rockefeller or Henry Ford!"

I conducted the interview below which was to be included in my Roxy chapter...if anyone is interested....
Confessions of a Gae Foster Roxyette:
My father had reared me with the idea that all women should be financially independent. There weren't many careers a woman could have in the 1920s, so I decided I would be a dancer. I always wanted to go to New York, but I really never had aspirations to be a star. "Don't go to New York," my dancing teacher warned, "You can't even BUY a job." The year was 1931--it was the Depression.
Scared, I went anyway. My mother went with me. It took about four months of day-long looking, exchanging information--networking, I think they call it now--going to "calls," etc. I finally landed a job--it was a 33-week tour that played presentation houses across the country and into Canada and was produced by Leon Leonidoff, one of the producers at the Roxy Theater. We returned in September 1932 and I then worked with a vaudeville act that was playing out-of-the-way places like Canarsie in Brooklyn.
I was literally down to my last nickel when one of the girls I was rehearsing with (there were rehearsal jobs for things that never opened) told me about a call for dancers at the Roxy--actually the call was for only one dancer--and it came down to the two of us; when they called up the line, between shows, and tried to place us, she did not fit anywhere, so I got the job.
After two or three days of rehearsal, I started working at the Roxy on Christmas week 1932. That lasted for one month--and I was out. The Roxy had changed regimes--Mary Read who was the producer--she was one of the original Tiller girls and John Tiller's favorite dancer
--Tiller was the one who invented precision dancing--then she was out and Fanchon and Marco took over. I tried out again, and again I was chosen.
Our daily life was: on stage, dressed in rehearsal clothes and on our marks--we each had a number--at nine a.m. Thirty seconds late and you were given a penalty: one week out without pay. Since the pay at the beginning was only $27.50--Fanchon and Marco took out their 35 per cent agent fees--that made it $26.13, which was a lot more then but wasn't very much. After the NRA took effect, our "take" was $30.
We would rehearse until eleven; the house opened at 11 a.m. There were also costume fittings, or if things hadn't gone well on stage, we would go up to the rehearsal room on the fifth floor. Then lunch, out, at Hanson's Drug Store at Seventh Avenue and 51st Street. We would come back, put on our makeup--the first show was generally between 1:00 and 1:30 and lasted for 35 or 40 minutes. We usually did three numbers and then we would rehearse some more. We would do another show and at about five, go to dinner and then back to do the dinner show; we rehearsed some more, for about an hour and a half, and then we did ANOTHER show. We were free between 10:30 and 11:00--makeup off, in street clothes, and home by 11:30. I usually ate a "night" lunch and was in bed between 1:30 and 2:00. We ate four meals a day.
We did not have much social life. The theater was your life. There was no time for outside friends, and there were no "stage door Johnnies" at the Roxy Theater. If anyone was there, it was someone who knew one of the girls, not someone who was hoping to meet one. We had no time for the high life. If you tried night-clubbing for a couple of hours after all those shows, you wouldn't be there the next morning.
Sometimes on Friday nights, to relax after our long opening day, we went to where the good shows were, the MGM pictures over at the Capitol Theater. They had midnight shows and we would be transported into another world by watching Clark Cable and Joan Crawford. Later, we worked for five or six weeks and then got five days free, but you would practically lose touch with all of your friends. I think that was about the deadliest part of working at the Roxy: confinement to one life and to one group of people, week after week, month after month, year after year. It took a lot out of you.
But it was glamorous in a way, because our costumes were so very beautiful. Bonnie Cashin was our designer; she later became quite a famous fashion designer. And it was such fun to get into them. When the lights come on and the music started playing--yes, there was something about it that got you. To me, it was the same thing as a college education: It prepared you for living. It was a great discipline.
I hadn't been in it very long, perhaps two years, when I knew that the theater was not to be my life's work. In 1938, I went to Columbia University for night courses in journalism and to the Traphagen School of Fashion to study fashion journalism. I had been married in 1937 to a civil engineer who went off to exotic places around the world. I realized that if I wanted to be with him, I could write anywhere--even where I could not dance--so I became a writer.
In 1976, I was visiting my friend Dorothy Dunlop in New York. We had danced together at the Roxy when she was known as "Orchid"; then she was head of the workroom in the Roxy's wardrobe department. We had gone to church one Sunday morning and afterwards, walking down Seventh Avenue, went into a pancake place for brunch. As we were chatting away, we realized we were sitting on the spot where the Roxy's lobby had been--a fitting place for our reunion.

Betty O'Neal Gibony worked at the Roxy until 1939 when she became a writer. In 1945 she moved to New Castle, Indiana, where she still lives.

Here is some more from my Roxy chapter from my book on Times Square that did not come to pass: (I'm sorry for the length and misspellings...it was never edtited...and if it is too boring...just skip ahead.

Caption for photo of the Roxy's CinemaScope screen:
CinemaScope was demonstrated at the Roxy in April 1953 for the first time. An invited audience of reporters, exhibitors and other members of the film industry saw clips from The Robe and How to Marry a Millionaire, plus some aerial footage of New York's skyline and the winter sports at Sun Valley.
Cinerama was big hit when it opened at the Broadway Theatre in 1952. But the process was expensive and impractical, requiring three projectors in three separate projection booths, (as well as three projectionists and a controlling engineer at each performance.) In addition, seats had be removed from the ochestra floor to accomodate the big curved screen and the three projection booths.
3 D was also popular in 1952, but it required special glasses that caused eye strain and headachs and the novelty soon wore off.

Caption for color poster for The Robe:
In the early 1950s, when television was beginning to keep audiences at home, it took spectacle and technical innovation to get them back to the theaters. The Robe provided both, breaking box office records at the Roxy, and everywhere else it played.

Promoted as "the modern miracle you see without glasses," CinemaScope was the best publicized of the new processes, but was really just a poor man's version of Cinerama. And it was not new, having been invented in 1927 by Henri Chretien in France. Chretien had been seen Abel Gance's Napolian which was shot in TK a primitive three camera process. and he was inspired to come up with a similar, but more practical solution. Cretian's anamorphic lens had been optioned by England's Rank Organization, but after their option lapsed, it was was picked up by 20th Century Fox. CinemaScope required a special lens on the camera that compressed the image during filming. Another lens on the projector unsqueeze it when the film was shown on a wide, slightly curved, screen, two and a half times wide as it was high. The complete the CinemaScope experience, a four-track stereophonic sound could be installed Fox made the process available to the other studios, and they all used it for some of their productions, with the exception of Paramount and Republic. But many directors did not care for the proportions. Fritz Lang said it was only good for"snakes and funerals," and George Stevens thought it was would be best for "class photographs." William Wyler had more serious reservations, "Nothing is out of the screen, and you can't fill it," he went on, "You either have a lot of empy space, or two people taking and a flock of others surrounding them who hav nothin to do with the scene. Your eyes wonder just out of curiosity."
The first CinemaScope feature to be released was Fox's The Robe, which had its premiere at the Roxy on September 16, 1953. (How to Marry a Millionaire was finished first, but Fox decided that The Robe would be better as the first release.) Most of the studio's productions were shot in the process until 1967, when In Like Flint marked the end of the process.. Fox as well as most of the other studios had long since switched to the Panavision lens, creating a similar effect, but with a sharper image with better depth of field..

Caption for ad for Carousel at the Roxy
CinemaScope doubled the width of the screen to an aspect ratio 2.55:1, but few theaters could accommodate screens with those proportions. CinemaScope 55, which had a 55.6 millimeter camera negative, exposing a negative twice as high and wide as 35mm CinemaScope, but it was used only twice, for Carousel and The King and I, both of which opened at the Roxy. Two years later, Fox abandoned CinemaScope 55 for their big pictures in favor of Todd-AO. the 70 mm process.
In a couple of years, after the novelty of CinemaScope wore off, stage shows returned to the Roxy. National Theaters, which took over Fox's lease after the consent decree forced the studios to sell their theaters, appointed Robert C. Rothafel, the nephew of Roxy, as the manager in 1955. "We hope to stage shows every bit as lavish as those originated by my uncle," the young Rothafel explained, "except we won't try to put that number of people on stage or in the pit. Do you realize his shows included a chorus of 100 voices, 36 Roxyettes, a corps de ballet of 20, and in the pit there was a symphony orchestra of more than 100 men!" "Happy Holiday, Anywhere, U. S. A., " was the title of his first show. It was well received by the critics and audiences seemed to enjoy it as well.
Former Olympic star, Sonya Kaye, appeared in a 45 minute ice show with a company of 39 singers and skaters, and a 24-piece orchestra with The Rains of Ranchipur on the screen. Fox's TK, combined with stage shows played at the Roxy for the next three years until Windjammer, a kind of travelogue photographed in a new process called Cinemiracle was booked in 1958. There was no stage show and seating was cut in half. It was not a success and stage shows returned to the Roxy, when the 1958 film version of Damn Yankees. At that time the Roxy was sold to Rockefeller Center, but Robert Rothafel had formed a company to lease it back and was trying to run it himself, but with a new approach, described as "youthful and modern." Too little and too late. The Gazebo was the last film and stage show combination. Then there some reissues, The Cain Mutiny with On the Waterfront.
The final night was uneventful. There were no stars, no ceromony, On March 29,1960, the last ticket was sold at 10:35 p.m., and then after a final showing of The Wind Cannot Read, the final movie to play at the theater, about 300 people filed silently into the night, most unaware that the Roxy was closing for good.

Three years later, after Pennsylvania Station was demolished, The New York Times printed an editorial which might also be applied the destruction of the Roxy,.
".....we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build, but by those we have destroyed."

Caption: Eliot Elisofon photographed Gloria Swanson in the ruins of what had been the Roxy's rotunda. This 1960 photograph was the inspiration ("rubble in the daylight") for producer/director Hal Prince's staging concept for Follies (1971), the Stephen Sondheim/James Goldman musical.

One can still get a glimpse of the Roxy in the movie The Naked City (1948), which had several sequences shot in the rotunda.

A number of "Stepale2"s earlier comments and proposed captions about the ROXY were taken word for word from the late Ben M. Hall's "The Best Remaining Seats: The Story7 of the Golden Age of the Movie Palace" and I hope that they were fully credited in the proposed book, since they are not so credited here.

Mr. Rankin: What was posted here was only a rough draft so some of the text and captions were neither edited nor rewritten yet, which would have been done had the book come to pass. It was done this way mainly for the designer, not for publication.

For the record: I never intended for anyone to read my Roxy text, except for the designer of the book I was writing, as he needed some "dummy" text for his layouts. But I thought the folks who visit this site might enjoy seeing some of my research so I posted it. Now, I'm sorry I did. I would never take anything from Ben Hall's book, or anyone elses, without rewriting the info. I'm not a plagiarist. Especially knowing the readers would probably have seen Mr. Hall's book. As it happens, I chose the Astor Theatre, rather than the Roxy, for my sample chapter, as the spectacular advertising billboards (along with the Victoria's) were more visual than the outside of the Roxy and I felt that they might look better as a sample.

Re:CinemaScope 55 and it's use for "The King & I", I wonder if this is why when I watched it a few weeks ago on Fox Movie Channel, the letterboxing seemed a tad ridiculous. As much as I love the letter boxing format, for that movie, the movie image was more like a strip in the middle of the screen. The black portions on the top and the bottom were unusually prominent. Anyone agree?

This may not be the place to discuss this, but I too wondered about letterboxing, can anyone expain how the different aspect ratios are re-formatted for TV/DVD, and why the image size varies?

I've compiled another list of Roxy bookings, this one for 1942. In that year, some of the stage shows started to feature "name" headliners, but the majority were the stock "Show Time at the Roxy" type. All but one of the movies were from 20th Century-Fox. The year started with a hold-over of "Remember the Day" and Christmas show, which ended January 15, 1942:
January 16, "I Wake Up Screaming" and standard stage show;
January 29, "Son of Fury" and ss;
February 19, "Roxie Hart" and ss;
March 11, "Song of the Islands" and ss;
March 25, "To The Shores of Tripoli" and Easter ss;
April 23, "Rings On Her Fingers" and ss;
April 30, "My Gal Sal" and ss;
June 4, "10 Gentlemen From West Point" and ss;
July 2, "The Magnificent Dope" and ss;
July 16, "This Above All" (move-over from Astor) and ss;
July 30, Columbia's "They All Kissed The Bride" and ss;
August 12, "The Pied Piper" and ss;
September 9, "Footlight Serenade" and ss;
September 23, "Orchestra Wives" and Al Bernie, Condos Brothers, and Mata & Hari topping ss;
October 7, "Girl Trouble" and Tex Beneke, Marion Hutton and the Modernaires, Al Donohue heading ss;
October 14, "Iceland" and ss;
October 28, "Thunderbirds" and Jane Froman and Dave Apollon topping ss;
November 11, "Springtime in the Rockies" and Jack Durant and Raymond Scott's Jump Quartet heading ss;
December 9, "Life Begins at 8:30" and Hal LeRoy, Mary Healy, and Mary Raye & Naldi topping stage show;
December 23, "The Black Swan" and Christmas ss headed by Carmen Miranda and the Nicholas Brothers (RCMH had "Random Harvest" and traditional Christmas show at the time).

It should be noted that Betty Grable and Tyrone Power were becoming the Roxy's top boxoffice draws. Grable starred in four Roxy films that year, and Power in three (including the Technicolored "The Black Swan").

Look at this classic Roxy shot, they put a lit sign above the marquee advertising a sneak preview. People got to see 2 films and the stage show.

According to an article published by the China Mail[of Hong Kong] on 1st February,1934,We[the Alhambra Theatre of Hong Kong]have the benefit of RCA Victor "High Fidelity" sound apparatus similar to that installed in the luxurious Roxy theatre in New York.
Raymond Lo/22nd May,2005

A wonderful B&W photo showing a crowd of people rushing through the Roxy's grand foyer enroute to the auditorium can be seen at www.gettyimages.com The photo is numbered 50485543. The caption says it was taken on May 1st, 1943. According to my records, the Roxy was presenting "Crash Dive" at the time, accompanied by a stage show topped by Jimmy Dorsey's Orchestra and singers Bob Eberly and Kitty Kallen.

Warren, could you check that photo number again? I couldn't find the image either by it or by going to the 'movie theatre' category. If there were some alpha elements to that photo number that may have been omitted, they apparently are necessary to find the image.

Jim, you must be doing something wrong. I just tried it and had no problems. The number is correct. You just type it into the blank space at "Search."

Jim and Warren--
I retrieved the photo (and yesterday's photo of the Mayfair that Warren cited) by going to the "United States" page, then to the "Editorial" listings, then to the "Search All Editorial" thumbnail, and finally entered the photo number in the Search Box -- a clumsy trail, but one that got me there. Thanks, Warren, for the posting of this valuable resource.

About ten years ago, i saw an ad, I think it was in Variety, wherever it was, a guy named Bob Meyer was offering his mimeographed recollections of his time at the Roxy. And here they are for your viewing pleasure:

An Usher's Private Thoughts
"Going in now for the last complete stage and screen presentation starring Martha Stewart and the Blackburn Twins and Bette Davis in All About Eve. (One more hour to go. Boy, am I hungry.).
"Good evening, Miss Merman, your tickets are at the executive entrance, just down the street. There is an elevator to take you to your seat. " (I hope we all go Chinese tonight. I can just taste HO-HO's dim sum right now.)
"The last stage presentation has just started. The best remaining seats are in the rocking chair loge!" I've been out here almost four hours. I hope they assign me to the backstage elevator tomorrow.

"Your tickets are at the executive entrance, Mr. Winchell. You don't want to walk down the street? Just one moment, I'll have someone escort you past the ticket-taker."
(There goes a real pain in the ass.)

"Going in now for the feature presentation only. There is a ten minute wait in the rotunda until the stage presentation ends. (I have to remember to give a quarter to the guy who went to the deli for my share of the bologna and cheese sandwiches and the nickel he loaned me for the Pepsi machine.)

"The last showing of All About Eve starring Bette Davis is about to begin. All remaining seats are in the balcony. Good evening Miss Ritter. Its only been on a few minutes. I'll walk you in myself. I am just going off duty." (What a sweetheart. She's the best thing in the picture. I can't wait to get out of this damn uniform.)

ODE TO MY AMA MATER
Four horses, five dogs and a monkey encircled
Twin midgets in a cakewalk finale
One horse fell in the pit, the show had to quit
And the monkey bit a dog in the alley

Liz Taylor was trampled at the premiere of Giant
Police came along with the press
It could have been staged, it was promptly front paged
There's No Business Like Show Business had its stars at the opening
Among them, Johnnie Ray, a nice fella
When those soxers called bobby, tore off his clothes in the lobby
Someone quickly found him an umbrella

A black cape worn over and long-johns worn under our uniform was norm
During those long Winters we waited for Spring
A cardboard collar and shirt, all this stuff really hurt
These were a few of my least favorite things

Our answer to TV was CinemaScope, the entire industry turned out to see
Spyros Skouras lauded its inventor and what he had done
The Frenchman who gave us what promised to save us
Expressed something, but no one understood either one

Jacketless gentlemen and ladies in slacks
Were politely refused admission
One didn't foxy about out the rules at the Roxy
They were upheld in the finest tradition.

ODE TO MY ALMA MATER IV (and final)
Any gratuities were strictly verboten
All of our services were done with a smile
Sometimes this infuriated those then
With reputations of a generous style
One such was Miss Sophie Tucker
"The Last of the Red Hot Mamas"
Who chased after me with the yell
of a trucker
In a mink coast and lounging pajamas
All I did was show her to a seat
She stuck five dollars into my jacket
I accepted it in quiet defeat
Giving up both the chase and the ticket
Mrs. Sylvia Sullivan, who was Ed's wife,
Had reported some jewelry lost
The sentiment giving her much strife
She seemed less concerned of its cost
Remembering where she sat was no conquest
I combed the area with my flashlight
Sure enough, between the cushion and armrest
Were the gems which were causing her plight
I turned them in they called her directly

She asked my name and sent a messenger most zealous
Bringing a thank you note and check with him just for me
But the latter through earned was returned by a manager most jealous.
Well, in 1960 it finally came down
Someone had Gloria Swanson pose in a gown
LIFE took a picture, Bosley Crowther wrote a book
When I pass where it was, I still steal a look
And remembering the schooling I got
Make me realize that I owe a lot
To the Roxy which sooner than later
Usher me, to a life in the theater.

Bob Meyers for many years managed the Gemini for UA. He was truely the old school of theatre managers.

Thanks for the opportunity to see the lobby of the Roxy as photographed and saved in the Getty Images Editorial. However I can't find Warren's web link for the Mayfair...can someone help? One more thing: The Roxy photo states it was taken at 12:00 am....I don't recall the Roxy having midnight shows as did the Paramount, Capitol and Strand. The last stage show usually began at 10 pm (last feature at 11pm)on weekdays and 11pm on Saturday (last feature at midnight). there is also something unique in that there is scaffolding on the right side of rotunda. The crowd also seems to be in an awfully big hurry. On the far right you can also see the bottom step leading to the grand stairway. I remember the steps to the loge were beyond the grand stairway. Does anyone know of any other interior shots...other than in The Best Remaining Seats?

SimonL:
I've also been looking for a few years....there seems to be a real shortage of good interior shots of the Roxy. The Theatre Historical Society has a painting of it on its website. They also put out a booklet on the Roxy several years ago which may have more. If not, they may have stuff in their archives.
I hope someone comes up with something. Thanks for asking the question.

If my memory serves me, there are lots of interior shots of the Roxy at the Library at Lincoln Center in the Billy Rose Collection as well as in the Library of Congress. Also, I some some nice ones in my archives...but I don't have a website so I have no way of posting them, alas.

I would not give much credence to that 12:00 AM timing for the 1943 photo of the Roxy. It probably is a mistake and should have been 12:00 PM (noon). The people rushing in don't look like the type that turned out for midnight shows.

There are also shots of the Roxy's interior at the Smithsonian in DC, The Museum of the City of New York, The New-York Historical Society and that movie theater archive in Chicago.

I compiled another list of Roxy bookings, this time for 1943. All of the movies were from 20th-Fox, and stage shows were featuring more "names," partly in response to the reumption of stage shows at the nearby Capitol. 1943 started with a hold-over of the Christmas show with "The Black Swan" and Carmen Miranda on stage, followed by: January 20th, "China Girl" and ss with Guy Lombardo & Orchestra, George Tapps, Nan Wynn; February 3rd, "The Immortal Sergeant" and Boogie Woogie ss with Connee Boswell, Paul Lavalle & Orchestra, radio commentator Milton Cross; February 24th, "The Meanest Man in the World," plus stage version of "Truth or Consequences" radio show, with emcee Ralph Edwards and singer Carol Bruce; March 10th, "Young Mr. Pitt" and ss headed by diva Grace Moore; March 24th, "Hello, Frisco, Hello," and ss with Chico Marx & Orchestra, Mel Torme, Marty May, Toy & Wing and Marion Hutton; April 28th, "Crash Dive," plus Jimmy Dorsey's Orchestra with Bob Eberly and Kitty Kallen; May 26th, "My Friend Flicka," plus Paul & Grace Hartman, Larry Adler, Mitzi Mayfair, the Merry Macs; "Coney Island," plus Latin American revue featuring Enric Madriguera & Orchestra, Jack Durant, Carmen Amaya Dance Company, and Sabicas; July 21st, "Stormy Weather," plus Russ Morgan & Orchestra, Connee Boswell, Ray English; August 11th, "Heaven Can Wait," plus Veloz & Yolanda, Jerry Colonna, Ilona Massey; September 15th, "Holy Matrimony," plus Carole Landis, Paul Draper, Jerry Wald & Orchestra; September 29th, "Wintertime," plus Bert Lahr, Paul Haakon & Patricia Bowman, Lucille Manners; October 20th, "Sweet Rosie O'Grady," plus Danny Kaye, Tommy Tucker & Orchestra, Beatrice Kay (who left after first week due to friction with Danny Kaye); November 17th, "Guadalcanal Diary," plus the Ritz Brothers and the Golden Gate Quartet; December 8th, "The Happy Land," plus Frank Fay, the Radio Aces, Irina Baronova; December 22nd, "The Gang's All Here," plus Christmas show topped by Jimmy Dorsey & Orchestra, Kitty Kallen, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson. All of the stage shows also included the Gae Foster Roxyettes, house orchestra, and "specialty" acts.

May 20,1938 the Music Hall was playing the all time classic "Robin Hood", but the Roxy was playing the Ritz Brothers in "Kentucky Moonshine" which co-starred Tony Martin. On stage were the voice stars of Snow White, Adriana Casalotti who voiced Snow White and Harry Stockwell who voiced Prince Charming.

The Roxy's 1944 bookings started off with a hold-over of "The Gang's All Here" and Christmas stage show, followed by: January 19th, "The Lodger" and stage show featuring stars from radio's popular jazz series, "The Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street, plus Helen Forrest, Jack Durant, Hal LeRoy, and usual contingent of the Roxyettes and Roxy orchestra and chorus; February 9th, "The Sullivans," with Martha Raye, Rosario & Antonio, and the Ben Yost Singers heading the stage portion; March 8th, "The Purple Heart," plus Count Basie & Orchestra, Carol Bruce, the Berry Brothers, and Zero Mostel on stage; April 5th, "Four Jills In A Jeep," with Harry Richman, the DeMarcos, and Dave Apollon heading the stage revue; April 19th, "Buffalo Bill," with Paul Whiteman's 50-piece orchestra, Victor Borge, and Joan Edwards topping the stage bill; May 10th, "Pin-Up Girl," with stage revue featuring Connee Boswell, Raymond Scott's Orchestra, and Willie Howard; May 30th, "The Eve of St. Mark," and Barry Wood, Eddie Garr, the Berry Brothers, the Radio Aces, and Mia Slavenska on stage; June 21st, "Home In Indiana," plus Enric Madriguera & Orchestra, Hazel Scott, Joe Beser, Carmen Amaya Dance Company; July 12th, "Take It Or Leave It," plus Duke Ellington & Orchestra, Ella Logan, and Jerry Lester on stage; August 1st, "Wilson" and patriotic stage show with Fred Waring & His Pennsylvanians and supporting cast of 100 (this booking ran a record-breaking eight weeks, surpassing the previous high of six weeks shared by six films); September 27th, "Greenwich Village," plus Veloz & Yolanda, the Peters Sisters, Paul Remos & His Toy Boys, and Senor Wences; October 11th, "Laura," plus Hazel Scott, Jackie Mills, Harrison & Fisher, and Jerry Wayne topping stage show; November 7th, "Irish Eyes Are Smiling," with stage show headed by Ray Bolger, Grace Barrie, and Walter Nilsson; November 29th, "Something For The Boys" and stars of Cafe Society Uptown, including Jimmy Savo, Mildred Bailey, and the Pearl Primus Dancers; December 20th, "Winged Victory" and Christmas stage show topped by the Nicholas Brothers, Gil Maison & Company, and Jack Durant. Throughout 1944, the Roxy used this slogan for its stage presentations: "No $4.40 Broadway show ever had such stars, tunes, laughs, thrills, and girls!." All of the movies were from 20th Century-Fox.

Thanks, Warren, for your wonderful listings of the Roxy's shows. If I've got them straight, you've offered the following:

1941, posted on 18 April '05
1942, posted on 16 May '05, with comparative cross-reference to RCMH on 9 May '05
1943, posted on 29 May '05
1947 in part, posted on 24 April and 6 May '05

What were the six pre-'44 films that hit six-week runs? I take it that the standard three-week run might have had somethng to do with signing up big-name performers for a contracted period of time. After '52, "Call Me Madam," "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes," "The Robe," "Carousel," "The Kink and I," "Bus Stop," "Giant," and "Anastasia" reached or surpassed that limit, no?

I regret that I made a mistake in claiming that prior to "Wilson" running eight weeks, the longest runs at the Roxy were for six weeks. It was actually five weeks, shared by "Alexander's Ragtime Band," "A Yank in the RAF," "My Gal Sal," "Hello, Frisco, Hello," "Coney Island," "Heaven Can Wait," and "The Cockeyed World." All were accompanied by stage shows. My source for this was a story in 1944 in The New York Times, which can also make mistakes, so I can't swear for its accuracy.

Ahhh -- except for "The Cockeyed World" (August '29) and "Alexander's RTB" (August '38), the others played between September '41 and August '44, largely the War Years and, consequently, until the mid-'50s the Roxy's glory years.

And is it true that Alice Faye : Roxy :: Greer Garson :: RCMH + Tyrone Power : Roxy :: Cary Grant : RCMH, so that "Alexander's RTB" and "Yank in the RAF" emerge as the Roxy's archetypal films?

I don't know if the Roxy ever said which stars drew the biggest crowds, but I would guess that Alice Faye and Betty Grable probably tied for the #1 female, with Tyrone Power as the #1 male. Faye retired from the screen just as Grable was becoming a major star. The Roxy differed from RCMH in that most of the Roxy's movies were from just one studio (20th-Fox), whereas RCMH ran films from all the major studios and offered a wider selection of stars.

On three occasions in 1944, the Roxy opened a new program on the exact same day as the Paramount Theatre, which had about 2,200 fewer seats. But boxoffice reports in Variety suggest that the Paramount usually did as well, and sometimes better, than the Roxy...In January, the Roxy, with "The Lodger" on screen and a stage show featuring stars from radio's "Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street," grossed $100,000 in its first week. Simultaneously, the Paramount also grossed $100,000 with "The Miracle of Morgan's Creek" and the Johnny Long Orchestra, Hazel Scott, and Gil Lamb heading the stage show. In the second week, the Roxy dropped to $93,000, while the Paramount surged ahead to $102,000...In July, the Roxy, with "Take It Or Leave It" on screen and Duke Ellington's Orchestra, Ella Logan, and Buddy Lester heading the stage show, grossed $65,000 in the first week. Simultaneously, the Paramount grossed $77,000 with "And The Angels Sing" and Perry Como and Jerry Wald's Orchestra top-billed on stage...In October, the Roxy had a first week's gross of $106,000 with "Laura" and a stage show headed by Hazel Scott, Jackie Mills, and Harrison & Fisher. Simultaneously, the Paramount did $90,000 in its first week of "Our Hearts Were Young and Gay" and stage show topped by Frank Sinatra and Raymond Paige's Orchestra. Variety noted that the Paramount's gross would have been much higher if not for a slow "turn-over" of seats. Many Sinatra fans remained for two or more shows, some even staying from opening to closing.

Here is an ad for the Cinemiracle engagement of "Windjammer". This is actually the second ad they used. The first one was disgusting very dark and grey.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/9550d875.jpg

Does anyone remember how badly the theater was altered for this engagement?

Do I ever.

Kindly elaborate. What was done?

Bob, like most nighmares most of us would rather not remember anything about it. Just be happy you did not see it.

Bob Furmanek: scroll above to Warren's comments dated February 13, 2004 as he and others touch upon the subject of the damage done to the theater (seems both physical and economical) by the "Windjammer" film.

I checked out "Windjammer" on the IMDB site and there's link to a site dedicated to Cinemamiracle.

http://www1.tripnet.se/~adler/wide2.html

I never knew that Peter Pan opened at the Roxy.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/PeterPanatRoxy.jpg

dose anyone know the last movie
that played at the roxy
and what day and year

Warren, who knows more than anyone on the subject, posted this info here last January, in answer to Myrtle's question above... the last movie was "The Wind Cannot Read" which opened on March 9th.....and the Roxy finally closed forever on March 29, 1960.

RobertR: That's a great Peter Pan ad. I especially like "VODVIL Tonight at Orpheum". Was Vodvil supposed to be a modern, futuristic way to say vaudeville, to show that vaudeville wasn't dead and could change with the times?

Possibly the spelling of 'Vodvil' as opposed to vaudeville was a way of being 'with it' or somehow current. I think that Variety started the trend with mispellings in the trade paper headlines. It goes along with 'Burlesk' rather than burlesque. There are numerous other examples.

I too loved that ad. Any more Robert?

Thanks Sam. Vodvil does sound like one of those Variety terms, like Stix Nix Hix Pix. I just saw Cagney in "Yankee Doodle Dandy" recently, in which he translates that phrase.

Yes Bill, I can remember all those great Variety mispellings. it got a bit strange, but fun, when people would use them in their everyday language. Ahh show folk, just a bunch of wild and crazy people.

"Vodvil" was simply an abbreviation of "vaudeville" and frequently used in advertising and on theatre marquees when space was tight. Variety usually used just "vaude" in its reportage. One of the first entertainment industry histories was titled "Show Biz: From Vaude to Video," and written by Variety's editor, Abel Green, and Joe Laurie, Jr. It was published in 1951.

Warren, as a marquee changer in my teens I can tell you it was an art to fit movie titles on some marquees. A lot of thought and creativity went into the great marquees of yor. In addition, they had to be changed on time. Just like the mail, come rain, snow,
wind, earthquakes or floods. That marquee had to be changed.

I credit the marquee changers of days gone by with some very creative work in providing the gist of the attractions, especially on the limited space of some of the end panels. I always thought it would be great to be able to do it until one night in the midst of a howling snow storm when it was almost impossible to stand upright at ground level, seeing some poor soul trying to replace letters some 12 or more feet in the air. At that point I decided there might be better occupations.

I've changed the huge marquee at the Loew's Jersey on a number of occasions, utilizing the same ancient lift that was used in the old days. I can tell you - it's most certainly NOT an easy task. You can only do a few letters at a time, then have to climb down this rickety lift, move it a few feet, and repeat the process. The front marquee on that theater is a good 20+ feet long.

And I'm afraid of heights!

The Route 17 Triplex in Paramus NJ only posts one word from each movie title on their marquee. It's usually a pretty funny sight. Last week it said TENSION PANTS LAW YARD. I had to look up LAW in the paper - I couldn't figure out that it was "Monster-in-Law".

CConnely, Vito, BoxOfficeBill, please tell us just exactly what "damage" was done to the Roxy by the installation of CineMiracle. I can only assume you actually were there, else you wouldn't have been able to make these comments. Other than the positioning of a large screen and curtain track forward of the proscenium, much as was done at the Broadway and Warner for Cinerama, just what "damage" was done? Eager 3-panel enthusiasts await your reply(s).

Bob Furmanek and veyoung--

Yes, as CConnolly writes above, Warren's expert posting about CineMiracle on 13 Feb. '04 offers much more than I could about details.

Last 27 November, I weighed in with some impressions:

The huge CineMiracle screen sat in front of the proscenium, over the orchestra pit, on an extended thrust stage. It had a temporary look to it, not at all like the subsequently remodelled Capitol or Loew's State, which appeared as though management had planned for the long haul. Upon exiting from "Windjammer," I remember signs in the lobby announcing the next CineMiracle film then in production, the disasterous "The Miracle" with Carroll Baker. The latter, of course, was finally released in a shrunken Technirama in November '59, when it had a brief three-week run as the Thanksgiving show at RCMH.

Last 16 April, I offered a photo of the Roxy's 1952 drapery treatment, which CineMiracle thrust did not seem to affect.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/roxy1.jpg

My present memory of seeing "Windjammer" is that its projection and sound were both terrific--better than Cinerama ever had been at the Broadway or Warner or Capitol. I recall a storm sequence that was knuckle-whitening. I also recall that, even with reduced seating, the theater was sparsely populated. I was surprised to find it so, since I believe I had attended a matinee during busy Easter Week, close to the opening of its run.

RobertR: Last July 24 I recounted my memory of the Roxy's stage show with "Peter Pan":

I remember that the Ice Colorama stage show featured a clone of the Wizard-of-Oz narrative, concerning a Wicked Witch (performed by a male ice-skater) who hurtled across the stage at enormous speed, pursued by the good-guy Ice Blades and Roxyettes, with flashing flourescent lights in tempestuous neon hues, accompanied by off-stage thunder and a crashing orchestral score (it might have been “A Night on Bald Mountain,” no?). We stayed to see the stage show a second time, moving up to the vast balcony for a better view of the Colorama effects.

In December, 1945, with the opening of "Leave Her to Heaven" and Christmas stage show, the Roxy introduced its new Altec Lansing loudspeaker sound system, "The Voice of the Theatre." A Roxy advertisement said: "We invite you to thrill to the new exciting experience of 'in person' sound. Now you will be brought living, breathing stars, music in all its vibrant beauty, and sound effects produced with startling realism."

I remember those speakers, the Haven had them until we put in Dolby in the 80's.

Leave Her to Heaven as a Christmas show?!!!
No wonder Gilda was considered family fare. Just surprised it wasn't shown as the Easter film at the Hall.

When the Roxy's Christmas show included "Leave Her to Heaven," RCMH's holiday film was the sanctimonious "The Bells of St. Mary's" with Father Bing and Sister Ingrid.

Gee, which would YOU choose?

A saintly Ingrid Bergman or a homicidal Gene Tierney?

I'd go with Tierney. She was painfully beautiful in "Leave Her to Heaven".

I wanted to strangle that annoying kid brother because he dared to interupt Tierney's advances in one scene with Wilde. No wonder she killed him....

Even though I have never been able to sit through all St. Mary's Bergman is pretty wonderful in it. Still as much as I like Leave(and love Gene) the idea of the Roxy filled with holiday families watching Tierney passively watch a crippled boy drown gives one pause.
(Makes me think of those holiday families watching the brutal Charade at Christmas of '63 at the Hall right after the murder of the president.)

Circa 1945, the Roxy could show an "adult" film like "Leave Her to Heaven" during Christmas week without having to rely on the "family" trade. 85 million people per week went to the movies in those days. Many were not parents with children in tow. I saw a photograph of a long waiting line outside the Roxy during the "Heaven" run, and very few kids are discernible, and that was during daytime. I'm sure there were even fewer attending at night.

There were lots of adult films that glittering holiday season, the first after WWII. The Astor had “Spellbound” and the Rivoli opened “Lost Weekend.” Even “They Were Expendable” at the Capitol (with Tommy Dorsey on stage) proved adult fare. The Globe and the Palace offered films noirs (“Johnny Angel” and “Cornered”), pictures perhaps more suited than Father Bing’s to “The Godfather” couple who attended RCMH.

The ever-petulant Bosley Crowther began his review for “Leave Her to Heaven” with the complaint that it was “an inauspicious moment” for such “a piece of cheap fiction” (the review gets worse: poor BC!). The ad in the NYT for “The Enchanted Forest” at the Victoria quotes BC’s praise for it as “the only real film for the kiddies this year.” Here’s the page from the NYT:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/petrarch/nyt12-45.jpg

In 1957, the Christmas film at the Roxy was "Peyton Place," a huge hit despite its adult material.

Ugh, Bosley Crowther. It just goes to show that there were hack critics back then as there are now. And that dope worked at the NY Times. Actually, even today, the Times is not known for it's film criticism.

In July, 1945, "Wilson," which played at the Roxy for a record-breaking eight weeks in 1944, returned for another two weeks, this time at regular "popular prices." The stage show was topped by singers Dick Haymes and Helen Forrest and comedian Joe Besser. In the original Roxy run of "Wilson," with Fred Waring & His Pennsylvanians on stage, the prices had been upped by as much as 50 cents, with a $1.50 top at peak times...The complete Roxy schedule for 1945, which started with a hold-over of "Winged Victory" and stage show from December 20, 1944, was as follows: January 24, 1945, "Sunday Dinner For a Soldier" plus "Cafe Zanzibar" stage revue topped by Louis Armstrong, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, and the Delta Rhythm Boys; February 7, "Hanover Square" and Milton Berle heading stage show; February 28, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn," with Victor Borge and singer Joan Edwards heading stage bill (this ran a smash six weeks); April 11, "A Royal Scandal" and Easter ss with Hazel Scott, Jackie Miles, and The Hartmans (RCMH had the Tracy-Hepburn "Without Love" at this time); May 2, "Diamond Horseshoe" plus Count Basie's Orchestra and Jerry Lester topping ss; June 6, "Where Do We Go From Here?" and Tony & Sally DeMarco, John Boles, Jackie Gleason, and Roddy McDowall heading ss; July 3, limited three-week engagement of "Nob Hill," with Abbott & Costello "and their entire radio gang" on stage; July 25, return of "Wilson" with ss; August 8, "Captain Eddie" and ss with Phil Silvers, the Berry Brothers, Professor Lamberti and new continuing "host," Carl Ravazza; August 30, Rodgers & Hammerstein's "State Fair" and ss with Connee Boswell, the Condos Brothers, Gene Sheldon, and Ravazza; September 26, "The House on 92nd Street," plus Ravazza, Rosario & Antonio, and Copacabana Night Club revue produced by Monte Proser; October 31,"And Then There Were None," plus ss topped by Jay Jostyn (star of radio's "Mr. District Attorney"), the Nicholas Brothers, Dave Apollon, and Ravazza; November 15, "The Dolly Sisters," plus ss including Beatrice Kay, Maurice Rocco, Gomez & Beatrice, and Ravazza; December 25, "Leave Her to Heaven," plus holiday ss headed by the DeMarcos, Paul Winchell, and Ravazza.

Whenever "Wilson" was shown on TV, my dad always talked about how great it was seeing it at the Roxy. He said there were American flags draped all over the theater.

Wasn't "Gentlemen's Agreement" a Zanuck production like "Wilson"? And if so, I wonder why "Gentlemen's Agreement" premiered at The Mayfair and not The Roxy? Was the material considered inappropriate for it? Just curious....

Warren-- Thanks again for your continued efforts to chronicle the Roxy's presentations. It's a list I've long wanted to compile myself but never found time to do properly.

CConnolly-- I wonder whether such 20C-Fox films as "Gentlemen's Agreement" played at the Mayfair or Rivoli (or sometimes Astor ["Three Came Home," "Fourteen Hours"], Globe ["Don't BOther to Knock"], or Loew's State ["Seven Year Itch"]) because of the possibility for longer runs (three weeks and upwards) that might enable word-of-mouth to build and spread.

The Roxy generally moved its product every two or three weeks because, as Warren implied, the stage-show format with headline performers required definite time commitments from them. (RCMH had the freedom to let the Rockettes kick up a given routine for as many weeks as it pleased; the entr'acte acrobats and magicians could be exchanged and substituted if necessary.) Films that played at the Rivoli, Mayfair, or elsewhere could run as long or as briefly as the crowds mandated. Adult content probably had little to do with the selection.

I remember seeing "Gentlemen's Agreement" during its nabe run at the RKO Dyker; I was five years old. I also remember the opprobrium that attached to "Forever Amber," which opened at the Roxy that year. One of my aunts defied the Church and saw it; she also read the book. I was always fascinated by the books she read, and tried to read them, too. The nuns cluck-clucked at me.

Shirley Temple in one of her lesser efforts.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/JustAroundtheCorner.jpg

Wasn't State Fair a moveover from the Music Hall? Bet that didn't happen often.

Rodgers & Hammerstein's "State Fair" PREMIERED at the Roxy. It was not a move-over from RCMH. The original non-musical "State Fair," with Will Rogers, opened at RCMH in 1933.

In her autobiography The Gift Horse, German-born actress Hildegard Knef recalls her arrival in and time spent in the United States shortly after World War II and being offered a Hollywood studio contract. Here she describes a visit to what may have been the Roxy. I originally posted this on the Radio City Music Hall page, thinking it was RCMH, but I've been told that some aspects of her description suggest the Roxy instead. Anyway, it's an interesting description:

"The packed movie house is a cross between the public baths and a set for an operetta, between a temple and a railway station; in the balcony they're making love, smoking, and chewing brown-white balloons of absorbent cotton from cardboard cartons; they run in and out during the film, during the stage show, whistle like crazy when the chorus girls kick their legs, jitterbug in the aisles; girls with mottled frozen legs sticking out of tennis shoes and white ankle socks squeak and faint, crawl about among the flower boxes on the front of the stage, cry with the crooner who's singing something in Spanish. Now there's a preview: a bulldog face bursting out of a German officer's uniform barks orders in English; behind him there's a swastika hanging the wrong way round; on comes a soldier in an SS jacket and an SA cap, clicks his heels and yells 'Donner and Blitzen,' 'Jawoll!' and 'Heil die Führer!' The reclining couples break apart and join the stalls in a chorus of boos."

Would love a list of movies that played the Roxy after RAINS OF RANCHIPUR when the stage shows were re-instated. Someone earlier listed the titles and opening dates of the movies that played the Roxy from the inaugural CinemaScope THE ROBE.

That "Someone" was Warren, whose comprehensive knowledge, research skills, and pitch-perfect accuracy are legendary on these pages, and his list appeared on 25 Feb '05 above.

Warren: you're up to '45 now; bring us to '53, and then from '56 to closing. Finally: pre-'41? Would that be saving the best till last?

Oh Bill, you are gonna give Warren such a swell head. However I must add my two cents by whole heartingly agreeing with your comment, and how much I have learned from folks like yourself, Warren, Vincent, Michael and so many others.

I'm delighted that many have enjoyed my postings about Roxy bookings. Unfortunately, the library where I had been consulting NYT microfilm has reduced its opening hours for the summer, so I will probably not have any more Roxy lists until September at the earliest.

Thanks Warren, I shall look forward to that. I spent a couple of years working in New York for Fox during the mid to late 50s. I saw all the Fox films during that time at the Fox "Little Theatre" screening room and often again in a theatre, usually the Roxy or Paramount. It will be a kick to see those titles and dates. I still get goose bumps whenever I hear the fanfare, I am speaking about the original fanfare extension as it was written, not the awful version used today.

It is interesting that some important Fox films in the 30's and 40's played at the Music Hall rather than the Roxy but in the 50's it seems the Roxy had them all.

Vito: Remember when 20th Century-Fox stopped using their logo at the beginning of their movies in 1970? Having a silent logo without the fanfare ("The Sound of Music", "The Bible") was bad enough, but to do any with it completely - what were those Fox executives thinking? I guess they were trying to be trendy and with-it, and the logo and fanfare were perceived as old-fashioned. I remember seeing "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" at Loew's State 2 start off with the words "Twentieth Century-Fox Presents" over the opening shot, and thinking the projectionist had made a mistake. I think only a few movies fell into this category before somebody reversed this bad decision, but "Patton" was one of them.

Bill, I never understood the thinking behind the silent logo or additional music other than the fanfare playing. There were several even during the 50s. It was a magnificent way to start a movie with the full Fox fanfare and scope extension playing in full four track mag stereo sound. Somehow when ever I played a Fox picture the fader was always up about 2 or 3 DBs during the fanfare.
Vincent, many Fox films played the Paramount during the 50s
Who could forget the giant Elvis strummin his guitar below the Paramount sign. We also had a huge premiere for "The Best of Everything" at the Paramount in the fall of 1959. The last one to play the Paramount before I left Fox was "Journey to the Center of the Earth"

There was a wonderful long article about The Best of Everything in Vanity Fair due to the fact that its been getting a lot of play on television lately. Even the Times did a piece on it(the usual Times dopey, condescending, aren't we so much more enlightened today nonsense.)I was very surprised to read in that article that it opened at the Paramount and not the Roxy.
I work by the Seagram's building and every time I pass it I think of the very pretty Hope Lange looking at it going to work on her first day. I miss her.

"The Best of Everything" DVD features a Fox newsreel from the big premiere at the Paramount. Arlene Dahl attended with her husband Fernando Lamas, so they even managed to get in a plug for "Journey to the Center of the Earth"! (and what I wouldn't give to have seen THAT at the Paramount).

Vito: Did you actually project "Journey to the Center of the Earth" (with the fader up 2 or 3 DBs)? If so, I'd like to shake your hand! :)

Yup Bill, I had a habit of playing with the fader from time to time I couldn't help myself. Besides,"Journey" made me do it.
Vincent, I don't recall Hope attending the big premiere, however you would have had a bit of competition, there was a lot of talk at the time of a romance she may have been having with co-star Stephen Boyd, this before she married Don Murray.

Thanks Vito, for pumping up the volume on "Journey". Those lucky theater patrons (and the ghost of Bernard Herrmann) are grateful to you.

Here's a publicity photo of the Gae Foster Roxyettes dancing on the narrow edge of the peaked roof of the auditorium. The electric sign in the background is for the adjacent Hotel Taft:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/803f507e.jpg

Were the Missouri Rockets first the Roxyettes before becoming the Rockettes and if so who is Gae Foster?

wow--if Gae's girls weren't balancing themselves on bouncing balls, they were perched on precarious pinnacles. RCMH's Rockettes led a comparatively risk-free existence.

This thread from the Missouri theatre explains the Missouri Rockets became the Roxyettes and then the Rocketts Whew!
Gae Foster was the choreographer.
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/3209_0_2_0_C/

Here's the famous trade ad in which Dazian's took credit for providing the fabrics for the Roxy's new stage curtains and drapes, circa 1939-40:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/124-2411_IMG.jpg

How's that awful drape treatment! INfamous advertising really..... and.....recent posts about inventive cramming of marquee letters remind me of my Australian teenage ladder level exploits managing these two double features: ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE + ALLTHE PRESIDENT'S MEN. or try this one when 20 ft up: IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES + THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION OF GRACE QUIGLEY. A friend told me he had the thrill of placing THE HAUNTED AND THE HUNTED + THE HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL. Hilarious! Imagine answering the phone 700 times and repeating that! My favourite is from the Randwick Ritz when Tony the illiterate kid we employed liked to place 'the shapes' as he called them, up on the marquee: LISA MINOOLI and REBORT DE BIRO in NEW WORK NEW WORK. .....I kid you not.

paulb: Probably the all time tongue-in-cheek coupling of titles on a marquee was 'Getting Gertie's Garter' + 'Up in Mabel's Room'. Whether or not those two films were booked together deliberately, just for the shock value of seeing them coupled that way I can't say, but it was done more than once at a number of theatres.

Warren: That's a highly stylized trade ad from Dazian's!

Compare the photo that I posted above last 18 April (from "Marquee" 2.3 [1979]: 16, depicting the Fred Waring stage show with "Wilson" in '44): the frame for the valance is inverted, the valance swags differ in number (three vs. two) and drape, and the choral stairways remain yet uncovered.

My memory of the Roxy from the late '40s is hazy, but the photo bears out most of it. Did Dazan keep adding and adjusting drapery until it swathed the entire proscenium? It's hard to imagine the theater would have kept the same dusty drapes in place from '39 to '52. A visit to the Roxy would have brought on an allergy attack.

sam_e: In Australia of course, the rudest double was ADVANCE TO THE REAR + BOTTOMS UP

The first film ever shown at the Roxy was "The Love of Sunya," starring Gloria Swanson. Has anyone ever seen this film and is it worth purchasing? It seems available in dvd and thought it would be interesting to actually see the film Roxy opened with. The opening night story in "Last Remaining Seats" got me interested in both the Roxy and this film.

I've never seen "The Love of Sunya," but the Roxy Theatre received better reviews than the movie. The silent melodrama was the first production of Gloria Swanson's independent company, which had financing from her lover, Joseph Kennedy. The story is episodic, with Sunya imagining what her life would be like if she married any of her three current suitors. The United Artists release was directed by Albert Parker, "unfortunately at a snail's pace that was enlivened only by certain mystical special effects," according to a brief summary of the film in Ronald Bergan's "The United Artists Story."

Here's another image of the controversial Dazian's re-design of the stage curtains, this one taken in 1944 during a rehearsal of the stage show with Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians that supported the movie, "Wilson." A reference source claims that this re-draping took place in 1937, which seems possible since that was the Roxy's tenth anniversary year:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/127-2799_IMG.jpg

OMG what a nightmare

My sentiments exactly.

It's horrendous in black and white, can you visualize that in 'living color'?

Did anyone see it in person or see a color photo? I'm curious of the color

Robert:

The dominant colors were deep red and ivory white and were replicated in the draperies hung in lounge of mirrors. The latter appears among the tinted postcards that Lostmemory posted on this page last 9 March '05.

So does this mean that for most of its existence the great boxes and proscenium were covered and that the auditorium as presented in The Best Remaining Seats was only visible from '27 to the mid 30's?

Is anybody else having trouble seeing the most recent posts on the Radio City Music Hall page? Apparently people are posting, but they're not showing up on the screen. Maybe 1000 posts is every theater's limit? It's supposed to be up to 1005 right now.

Bill,
Yes, the Radio City page appears to have blown a fuse. I did like your 1996 film festival post. I was also there. I wish they would do it again! I keep emailing them for one, but never get a response.

I remember the film festival, sure would be nice if they did as the ad said and have it annually. I hope the owners fix the RCMH page soon, maybe some of the older posts will have to be eliminated. Meanwhile I am sure the Roxy lovers will let us post here for a while.

Theatre historian Ben Hall referred to the Roxy's new stage drapings as "Mae West's Boudoir." For the stage show supporting "Wilson," I suspect that they were modified to red, white, and blue, but I could be wrong.

There's a link to "Next Page" at the bottom of RCMH, but it doesn't go anywhere (yet).

Maybe the original web designers had no idea Cinema Treasures would ever be THIS popular?

Warren: My dad often talked about the flags flying all over the theater when he saw "Wilson" there. Maybe he was talking about the drapings, changed to red, white and blue?

Sure would like to get Varietys grosses on the Music Hall in years past. To think I subscribed in the 50-60's when the grosses were actually publised, and threw the issues out as soon as I read them. What a treasure they would be now. As well as all the Time Square grosses. Who knew that would become Nostalgia of another era. SAY GOODBYE TO YESTERDAY.

Ron: I have lots of old Variety clippings. I'll look through them and see if I have any for the Music Hall grosses. I started buying the paper in 1974, when it was only (I think) 60 cents. Now it must be $3 or $4 or even more per issue.

I started collecting Variety in 70 and loved looking at the Times Square and Music Hall grosses. As well as looking at the seating capacities of all the downtown movie palaces in the great American cities other than New York and imagining what they looked like.
My parents having no idea what treasures lay within eventually threw them out.
I'll never forget the horror I experienced one day finding my father painting a room with an issue being used to cover the floor. What in the world was he thinking?

I started collecting Variety in 70 and loved looking at the Times Square and Music Hall grosses. As well as looking at the seating capacities of all the downtown movie palaces in the great American cities other than New York and imagining what they looked like.
My parents having no idea what treasures lay within eventually threw them out.
I'll never forget the horror I experienced one day finding my father painting a room with an issue being used to cover the floor. What in the world was he thinking?

The big five combo/film palaces in New York City were Radio City Music Hall,Roxy,Capitol,Paramount and Strand. This truly was the golden era. The glory days from the late 1920'a to the mid 1950's.I thank all the veterans in describing what the theatres were like, you bring them back to life for me. Based on the photos I have seen the Roxy,Paramount and Capitol would have been my favorites.brucec

I used to give walking tours of the theater district and one of the things I used to like to do was to stand on the northwest corner of 50th St. and Broadway and point out all the various theaters, etc. that once were (mostly before my time) on 50th St., or just to the north or south of it.

These days, 50th St. is still somewhat lively, but imagine being on this corner in, let's say, 1933 just after Radio City Music Hall opened up:

Going from east to west, first on Sixth Ave. you have RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL (approx. 5,950 seats); then before you get to Seventh Ave. you have the ROXY (approx. 5,900 seats); then on the south side of 50th St. you have the former EARL CARROLL Theater (about 3,000? seats) which was transformed into a spectacular nightclub in 1933; on the very shallow block between Seventh and Broadway you have the the stage house and dressing rooms of the WINTER GARDEN theater (approx. 1,500 seats); and just to the south of 50th St. you have the the RIVOLI Theater (approx. 2,100 seats); then between Broadway and Eighth Ave. you have the back of the CAPITOL Theater (approx. 5,200 seats); and all the way over on Eighth Ave. on the north side of 50th you have the back of the TIVOLI Theater (approx. 1,400 seats), and across the street from that you have the third MADISON SQ. GARDEN (approx. 18,000[?] seats).

And that's not even to mention the restaurants (the original "little" Lindy's was just to the north of the Rivoli and, somewhere along the line, Jack Demsey's which was across the street from "little" Lindy's), hotels, etc. PLUS, before the Port Authority bus terminal was built, Greyhound had it's main bus terminal, I believe, on 50th St. just east of Eighth Ave.

Boy, on a Friday night in the 1930s, 50th St. must have really been jumping!!!

Great information on those good ole days. Wish I had a time machine to go back just for a few hours. Wasn't the Lowe's State considered another big movie house in Times Square as well as the Astor? That would make seven first run movie houses in the area? Just curious.

I looked through my old Variety clippings and found mostly reviews and ads, but I did find one page of NYC grosses including the Music Hall. Unfortunately it was for one of the Music Hall's worst bombs ever. The date is March 9, 1977. "Star Wars" was a little more than 2 months away. I'm posting here at the Roxy because the Music Hall page is still not working.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/grosses4.jpg

You would have to add Loew's State and make it the "Big Six" of Broadway-Times Square "combo" theatres. In the '20s and '30s, the movies at the State were usually move-overs from the Capitol, Paramount or RCMH, but the vaudeville programs were always top-notch with well-known headliners. In the 1940s until vaudeville was finally dropped, the State began to show more first-run movies. Also, from 1935-43, the Capitol dropped stage shows, but during that eight-year period they continued at the State. There was a similar lengthy stage black-out at the Strand, from the arrival of talkies until 1937. And the Paramount discontinued stage shows for about a year in 1934.

Mr. Billion was pulled after a couple of weeks as the Music Hall Easter show(who in the world chose it in the first place? Perhaps some future Cablevision execs?)and replaced with some Disney film about mining mules I think. I saw part of this with a very empty house and then there was a stage show which seemed to be produced with the production budget of The Fantasticks.

In those above grosses for the Columbia 2, they are showing "Mohammad Messenger of God". It says something about some reserved seats there and at the Rivoli. Anyone know anything about that?

Wow! "Mr. Billion"! That sticks in my mind because that was the movie that was playing when I toured the Music Hall. We were literally backstage while it was playing and it was amazing to be standing there right behind the screen. You could hear the entire film booming backstage. That was the tour where we were shown that weird little room in the auditorium that the audience could not see.

And yeah, what's up with the Hall's page here?

Although "King Kong" had the distinction of a dual New York premiere engagement at Radio City Music Hall and the New Roxy, its sequel, "Son of Kong," had to settle for a sole booking at the original Roxy, where it opened on December 29, 1933, along with a stage show topped by Buck & Bubbles, Paul Remos, the Twelve Aristocrats, Al Gordon & His Cronies, and Dave Schooler & Gang. "Son of Kong" proved a flop and lasted for only one week at the Roxy, after which it moved directly to RKO neighborhood theatres.

Here's another list of Roxy bookings, this one for 1946, which started with a hold-over of the previous year's "Leave Her to Heaven" and stage show: February 6, "Fallen Angel" and ss with Carmen Miranda & sister Aurora, Nestor Chayres, Archie Robbins; March 6, "Sentimental Journey" and ss with The Hartmans, Liberace, Dick Brown, Herb Shriner; March 27, "Doll Face" and special edition of a nightclub revue from Lou Walters' Latin Quarter; April 10, "Dragonwyck" and ss with Jackie Miles, the Lane Brothers, Connee Boswell (long a Roxy favorite); May 8, "The Dark Corner" and ss with George Jessel, the Merry Macs, Rosario & Antonio; May 24, "Do You Love Me?" and ss with Count Basie & Orchestra, Jimmy Rushing, the Peters Sisters, Ray Sax, Gene Sheldon; June 13, "Somewhere in the Night" and special edition of a nightclub revue from Monte Proser's Copacabana, featuring Desi Arnaz, Peter Lind Hayes, and the Copa Girls; June 26, "Smoky" and ss with Donald O'Connor & sister Patsy, the Three Swifts, Buster Shaver's Midgets; July 17, "Centennial Summer" and ss with Jane Pickens, Chico Marx, the Debonairs; August 14, "Claudia and David" and ss with Vivian Blaine, Jerry Colonna, Tony Romano; September 11, "Home Sweet Homicide" and ss with Hildegarde, Patsy Kelly, Jan Murray; September 25, "Three Little Girls in Blue" and ss with Beatrice Kay, Maurice Rocco, Raye & Naldi; October 16, "Margie" and ss with Frances Langford & husband Jon Hall, Carl Ravazza, Al Bernie, the Harmonica Rascals; November 19, "The Razor's Edge" and ss with Rosario & Antonio, Bob Hannon, Emma Otero, Tommy Trent, Senor Wences. "Razor" proved such a hit that it stayed through the rest of the year and into January, 1947, equaling the long-run record of eight weeks set by "Wilson" in 1944. All of the 1946 movies were from 20th Century-Fox, though some of the studio's most important releases opened elsewhere, including "Anna and the King of Siam" at RCMH and "Cluny Brown" at the Rivoli.

Warren-- thanks for '46. Yes, Connee Boswell was a great repeater at the Roxy. I wonder whether Senor Wences had anything to do with the success of "Razor" and its ss?

Hey, great stufff Warren. Living in San Francisco I think I remember these films playing at our Fox which I believe also featured stage shows with some of the above mentioned talent. My parents would take me to the Fox on occasion and see the stage show and movie. I don't think, however, that the Fox had a stage show with every attraction. Down the street at the Golden Gate they had a stage show with most attractions. Lots of big bands if I remember correctly. Would like to know about more of the Roxys bookings, especially after they started doing stage shows again after RAINS OF RANCHIPUR, which I had asked about in an earlier comment. Keep up the GREAT work.

I think that the hand puppetry of Senor Wences would have been lost on Roxy patrons unless they were sitting in the first rows of the orchestra. He needed the intimacy of nightclubs and eventually TV, which made him a star...Connee Boswell was crippled by polio as a child and always performed in a long evening gown that covered a wheeled stool on which she sat and also used to get on and off stage. This was known to the public and probably one of the reasons why she was so admired and respected.

Here's another year of Roxy bookings, this time for 1947. All of the movies but one were from 20th-Fox. 1947 started with a hold-over of "The Razor's Edge" and ss, which opened the previous November and equaled the long-run record of eight weeks set in 1944 by "Wilson": January 15, "13 Rue Madeleine" and stage show headed by Gracie Fields and Arthur Blake; February 11, "The Shocking Miss Pilgrim" and ss with Peter Lorre, Gil Lamb, Evelyn Knight; March 5, "Boomerang" and Ed Sullivan emceeing ss with Katherine Dunham Dancers, Sid Caesar, Ernesto Lecouna, Phil Regan; March 28, "Carnival in Costa Rica" and ss with Connee Boswell, Buster Shaver, Jackie Miles, Peters Sisters; April 23, "The Homestretch" and ss with Hazel Scott, Henny Youngman, Fred & Elaine Barry, Carl Ravazza; May 21, "The Brasher Doubloon," plus Jack Benny, Phil Harris, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, the Sportsmen, and Marjorie Reynolds; June 4, "Miracle on 34th Street," with ss headed by Jerry Lester, Art Lund, Jan August, Salici Puppets; July 2, "Moss Rose" and special ss, "Screamland," starring Olsen & Johnson and their funmakers; July 23, "I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?" and Abbott & Costello topping stage show; August 20, "Mother Wore Tights," and ss with Jack Haley, Ella Logan, Victoria Cordova, Ray Malone, Jerry Murad's Harmonicats; September 24, "The Foxes of Harrow" plus Milton Berle, Nancy Donovan, Stan Fisher, the Four Moroccans, the Vikings; October 22, "Forever Amber," plus Sid Caesar, Veloz & Yolanda, and H. Leopold Stokowski's Choral Ensemble of 50 Mixed Voices (this movie set a new opening-week record of $180,500, but faded fast due to negative reviews and word-of-mouth); November 27, "Thunder in the Valley" plus ss with Dan Dailey, Harrison & Fisher, the Three Swifts; December 7, Columbia's "It Had To Be You" and Connee Boswell, Paul Gerrits, the Pitchmen and Jayne & Adam DiGatano on stage; December 24, "Daisy Kenyon" and Christmas stage show with Lanny Ross, the Wiere Brothers, Beatrice Kraft Dancers, Hollace Shaw, Senor Wences.

Strange how one of the all-time great Christmas movies opened on June 4th. Maybe it was so popular it played right through the rest of the year after leaving the Roxy?

The movie was filmed under the title of "It's Only Human." To quote cast member Natalie Wood: "Nobody at Fox thought much of the picture or the title, so they changed it to 'Miracle on 34th Street' and dumped it on the market in the middle of the summer, which seemed the worst possible time for a fantasy about Santa Claus. But the public loved it. The studio had everything riding on 'Forever Amber,' which failed abominably at the box office, while this little black and white film made millions and became a classic."

So then we can assume that the opening shots of the parade were filmed in Nov of '46? I always wondered about that.

A christmas movie in June, sometimes it's true, as Angela as Mame sang: "we need a little Christmas"

Wanted to comment again on Warrens terrific Roxy bookings. Keep up the good work, if you can, till the Roxy met it's demise. Will be waiting for more if at all possible. Incredible information for the dozens, hundreds or more with real interest.

Here's a 1927 trade ad by the W.W. Kimball Company:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/132-3276_IMG.jpg

Here's a pre-opening ad that occupied a full page of The New York Times on Sunday, March 6, 1927:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/132-3288_IMG.jpg

Here's a list of bookings for 1948, which included the introduction of ice-skating to some of the stage shows. All the movies were from 20th-Fox: January 14, "An Ideal Husband" with ss topped by Ilona Massey, Rolly Rolls, Vasso Argyris, Rosario & Antonio, Roxyettes; January 28, "You Were Meant For Me," plus "Jazz Concert Varieties" ss emceed by DJ Fred Robbins with Louis Armstrong, Jack Teagarden, Earl Hines, the Roxy Choral Ensemble, and Roxyettes; February 18, "Call Northside 777" plus ss headed by Hazel Scott, Gil Lamb, Raye & Naldi; March 10, "Sitting Pretty," and ss with Betty Bruce, Salici Puppets, Art Mooney & Orchestra, Galli Sisters, Al Bernie; April 14, "Scudda Hoo, Scudda Hay," plus ss with Ed Wynn, Hollace Shaw, Dick & Dot Remy, the 3 Rockets, Davis Cunningham; April 27, "Anna Karenina" and ss with Larry Adler, Paul Draper, Hollace Shaw, Gali Gali; May 12, "The Iron Curtain," plus ss "Ed Sullivan & His Dawn Patrol Revue," featuring Evelyn Tyner, Hollace Shaw, Bob Evans, Al Kelly; June 9, "Green Grass of Wyoming" and ss with Harry Richman, The Craddocks, Ming & Ling, the Chandra Kaly Dancers, Phil Spitalny's Choral Ensemble; July 14, "The Street With No Name" plus ss with Vivian Blaine, Cab Calloway, Jackie Miles, and ice-skating novelty featuring Carol Lynne & Arnold Shoda; August 4, "The Walls of Jericho" and ss with Dick Haymes, Tommy Trent, Buster Shaver & Olive, and an ice-skating number; August 24, "That Lady in Ermine" and ss with Frances Langford and husband Jon Hall, Jerry Murad's Harmonicats, Al Gordon's Dogs, and an ice number; September 15, "The Luck of the Irish" and ss with Joe Howard, Al Bernie, Ed Sullivan & The Harvest Moon Ball Winners, Illinois Jacquet, and an ice ballet; September 29, "Cry of the City" plus ss with Danny Thomas, Marie McDonald, the Shyrettos and ice-skating ballerina Joan Hyldoft; October 15, "Apartment For Peggy" and ss with Kay Thompson & The Williams Brothers, Rolly Rolls, Ben Beri, and ice ballet featuring Arnold Shoda; November 5, "Unfaithfully Yours," plus ss with Peter Lind Hayes & Mary Healy, Gaudsmith Brothers, Jack Cole & His Dancers, and ice ballet with Arnold Shoda & Joan Hyldoft; November 23, "When My Baby Smiles At Me" plus ss with Mickey Rooney, Rosario & Antonio, the Harmonica Rascals, Gae Foster Roxyettes, and ice ballet with Shoda, Hyldoft and the Roxy Skating Belles; December 22, "That Wonderful Urge" and Christmas stage show "Winter Carnival," which was about 35% ice and starred figure skating champion Barbara Ann Scott.

yet ANOTHER great job Warren. Thanks for the memories and keep em' comin'.

when cinemascope was new at the roxy
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0001.jpg

and then came CINEMIRAC
i dont think it was a big hit at the roxy
did it every play on local screens
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0001.jpg

im sorry but im new at photobucket.com
i hope i get it right this time
CINEMLRAC
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0012.jpg

Warren--

Thanks for the bookings of '48. They recoup my earliest memories of the Roxy.

My first visit there was for "You Were meant for Me" with that great jazz stage show. The billing must have made an impression on my parents, who were by no means jazz afficionados, but who certainly possessed the instinct to seek out a great show. I have a hazy memory of the b&w Dan Dailey film (a scene that took place on a railroad train sticks in mind), but a more colorful memory of the live music, and especially of a whooping face-off among Armstrong, Teagarden, Hines, et al. that concluded the show. I of course didn't know who they were, and many years passed before I learned how to use libraries and dig out microfilm archives of the NYT to trace these memories. It then bowed me over to rediscover what a show it must have been.

I next remember seeing "Sitting Pretty" there. Evidently my parents found the previous show so good that they figured a return to the Roxy would be worth the trip on the BMT. My memory conjures up a stage-Irish review with shamrocks and midget leprachauns, and the premiere date of March 10 certainly bears out the St. Paddy motif. I don't recall the puppet act, but that--plus the sadistic appeal of Clifton Webb as a baby sitter--would surely have spurred our trek to Rothaffel's Cathedral.

Finally Ernst Lubitsch's last film, "That Lady in Ermine," brought us there again that summer, this time with the ice show as an evident drawer. The film's Austrian setting prompted a stage show with Viennese waltzes by Strauss on ice, a novelty that competed not only with the lavish spectacles up the block at RCMH but also with the full-length ice shows at the formerly "New Roxy" Center on 49 Street. Those three shows sketched out the coordinates of a post-WWII world bounded by Bourbon Street, County Cork, and the Tyrolian Alps, expansive enough for a Brooklyn kid to deal with at the time. Thanks for putting it into context with the full list of bookings for '48.

moore roxy ads
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0013.jpg

roxy ad
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0014.jpg

one more
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myrtleleave, that was quite a Christmas season in 1954, if I recall we had "No Business like Show Business" at the Roxy and down the street at RCMH you could see "White Christmas", anyone remember what was at the Paramount and Rivoli?

i got it now so here is CINEMIRAC at the roxy
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/scan0012.jpg

I was not sure were to post this, so I thought why not here.
As all of you know "This is Cinerama" had a wonderfull intro by Lowell Thomas, it was a short 35mm film which played to introduce the movie. I have only the sound portion but I hope this bring back memories. click on free download in Rapidshare. You will need
RealPlayer
http://rapidshare.de/files/4225157/thisiscinerama.ram.html

A Roxy page models his fall/winter and spring/summer uniforms:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/135-3525_IMG.jpg

Warren - He looks real young!

Christmas rivalry in 1942:
www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/135-3541_IMG.jpg

To Vito: White Christmas played the Music Hall for seven weeks beginning in October. It was in the nabes for Christmas.

To Vito:
Christmas of '54 - the Paramount had "The Silver Chalice", the Rivoli had "Carmen Jones". "Deep in My Heart" was the RCMH Attraction.

Thanks guys, I did not remember White Christmas leaving RCMH before Christmas. Good for the nabes I guess.

I wonder what people would think now a days if the Radio City Music Hall ran an ad that included "gay holiday spectacular"

My how times have changed.

to vito
white christmas 0pen at the brooklyn paramoune
no dec 20 1954 it was the only theatre in brooklyn
to show the movie it open 3 weeks later at
neghborhood theatres
http://photobucket.com/albums/b15/myrtleave/?action=view¤t=scan0072.jpg

Thanks myrtlleave, I was working at the Staten Island Paramount when White Christmas played there, perhaps it was Dec 20th as well.

In 1954, and since the theatre opened, it was the policy for movies to open exclusively at the Brooklyn Paramount before hitting the neighborhood circuits. Usually, this was just after the movie had finished its Broadway run, but sometimes when the movie was in its final weeks on Broadway. Also, when it first opened, the Brooklyn Paramount played its movies simultaneously with the NYC Paramount, but, of course, with a different stage show. So, as I meant to say at the beginning, there was nothing unusual about "White Christmas" opening at the Brooklyn Paramount before other theatres in the borough. The same policy applied to the three other downtown Brooklyn palaces-- Loew's Metropolitan, RKO Albee, and the Fox.

I think the closing of the Roxy in 1960 was due to a few factors. The Windjammer run wasn't a success and hurt the Roxy as a future theatre for roadshow runs because of its size. The owners of Radio City thought it was a good idea to get rid of its competition.All other Times Square palaces had dropped there stage shows except for the Roxy. Starting in the late 1950's the studios were cutting back on film production with less product to go around. Starting in the late 1950's the studios big event films were being released as reserved seat roadshow attractions playing up to a year in a single theatre. The Capitol and Loew's State reduced the size of there theatres to become roadshow theatres. I often wonder why that didn't happen to the New York Paramount. I would be curious to see the box-office of the Roxy from 1957-1960 and the product they were playing after "Windjammer".The Roxy showcased Fox films for most of its life and Fox wasn't doing very well during the late 1950's which would help explain the sale of the theatre to the owners of Radio City besides complying with the consent decree. I guess by 1960 there wasn't room in New York City to have two huge movie palaces the Roxy and Radio City having stage shows and movies. I remember in the 1970's when the Rockefeller's wanted to tear down Radio City they pointed to the destuction of the Roxy,Capitol and Paramount saying that they had outlived the stage and screen policy and was a White Elephant and should die a natural death as the other stage and screen movie palaces had.I would love to see a discussion of this, and could the Roxy have survived as a viable stage and screen theatre at least until the late 1960's.brucec