I am confused. Some days the curtains are used and the sound is fine, other days no curtains and low sound.
Why can’t management find a level that works well to enhance the presentation of the movie. And leave it there?
Should the sound be loud?, of course it should.
Should curtains be used at every performance? of course they should.
Going back to when we first started using stereo sound in theatres we had some patrons who wanted it played lower, I can still see the ole folks running out of the theatre shaking their hearing aid and holding their ears. Well too bad!
I would never allow a couple of people to ruin the experience for all the others, a simple sorry, out of respect for the film maker we have chosen that level of sound and we would rather not change it. Then a pass/refund and be gone with them.
As to the curtains, MarkNYLA wrote maybe the projectionists were too busy to run curtains. The fact is with a Digital presentation all the guy has to do in the first show, and the first show only, is log on to the computer, select the feature, or platter as it is called, and set the timer.
That’s all he has to do the entire day!
Only a second movie or a problem would require the projectionist to go to the computer again. So running curtains and lights, manually if necesary, should be easy to do. I don’t undertand the mind set of a projectionist working the Ziegfeld who would not want to put on a first class show. They need to leave the multiplex mentality at the door.
Now I understand different Digital projection systems work differently, but basically the fact remains that the projectionist has little nothing to do once the inital setup is done in the first show. Anyone disagree? I would love to be enlightened if I am wrong.
Come on Clearview, get this nonsense under control.
DON’T MAKE ME COME UP THERE! :))
Tickets for the 2007 Christmas show are now on sale.
The ad mentions, amoung other things, new effects. It sounded to me like a new spectacular show from the Great Stage was in the offering.
I wonder if I may impose on our RCMH expert REndres to get more information concerning what the new show will offer in the way of stage effects.
I would also like to know if the 3-D opening is still going to be presented and if it will still be 70mm film. I just have this feeling, nay worry, that someday they will switch to a digital format for that portion of the show.
What can you find out Rob?
REndres, I have written many times of the valuable,informative and often entertaining posts you have graced us with here.
General McArthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. That’s us Rob, old projectionist who will never die. I’m not even going to fade away, for as long as I still can, I will preach the ways of showmanship days gone by.
I only wish we could have worked together.
The Ziegfeld took a big step in the right direction with the presentation of “Porgy and Bess”, sure there were some problems, but the important thing is they tried to do it right. I would like to believe this was the result of the comments in this forum regarding proper film presentation techniques, which may have reached Clearview management and projection staff.
We need to continue to pursue the help of those in charge of running our theatres to keep the great art of showmanship alive.
AlAlvarez, may I loving say, as the kids say today,
“What a buzz kill”
William and Jeff, another problem with the mag tracks is the deteriation of the tracks especially in the high freq.
But there was always something wonderful about that wonderful aroma of the mag racks when you opened the film cans, remember that??
Another thing is, you need a Fox sprocket splicer to make repairs, I don’t think the newer tape splicers will not accomidate the mag prints.
What a fasinating story Rob, It just goes to the heart of the matter of being a showman in the booth. It was demanded in some locations back then, but often it was up to us to “put on a show” using all the bells and whistles at our disposal. When it came to running a roadshow, premiere or just opening night, I was always the kid in the candy store. Thank so much for bringing all those wonderful memories back. Like Sinatra once said about Fred and Ginger, you can hope and you can dream but you will never see the likes of that again.
My experiences with two curtains was always just about the same.
Just before the start of the show and the end of the music (non-sync)playing (you never cut a record or faded it out), we would open the the first curtain (contour or traveler) and dim the house lights to
half, after a couple of beats the first frame of the film would hit the screen and the 2nd curtain would open. I recall the audience reaction of applause when the first curtain opened in anticipation of the beginning of the show.
The end of the show in a theatre with a contour and travelor curtain was handled (with all due respect Rob) Music Hall style, with both curtains closing together. it was essentional that the two legs of the curtain kiss as the contour hit the stage, all of this had to Be perfectly timed to the fade out of the movie and the last note of music. ESSENTIAL!
In the case when we had twe travelor curtains, one curtain would be timed so that the two legs kissed at the same time the movie faded. Then the 2nd curtain would be brought in as the stage lights came up.
Of course with roadshows we went completly nuts and created new and different methods of opening and closing the curtains, dimming and raising the house and stage lights to go along with the overtures.
Of course, there was never any pre recorded music (non-sync) played during a roadshow.
God I miss those days!!
Ah yes William, there ya go. I knew there had to be a reason we no longer had the problem after the 70s, thanks for clearing that up.
Perhaps since the Zeigfeld booth has now been “downgraded”,
Clearview will go the extra mile and install the card.
I imagine Dolby is giving them away cheap at this point.
Jeff, I just cannot recall when the tone issue was no longer a problem. I would have to go back to the late 60s, just about the time 4 track prints were beginning to become scarce.
Bill, “Tonight,tonight, won’t be just any night”, at the Zeigfeld.
That filter is a part of the preamp and is a
self-contained module that can be replaced. The idea was to be able to turn the 4th channel off when not in use to avoid any unwanted popping or hiss coming from the surrounds when they were not being used.
As Jeff mentioned I have also seen this happen by damage to the track as well. A tech would need to run test loops to determine which of those problems it actually is. Perhaps Zeigfeld management could determine the problem and if it turns out to be a notch filter
the could replace it for the next time. That pitch can be very annoying and distracting.
Bill, I forgot to ask, how did the audience react to the movie?
Often, in an event such as that, folks will applaud at diffent times during the show, etc.
I will never forget opening night at WSS, the crowd applauded every musical number, like it was a live broadway show.
I mentioned the reel-to-reel because I thought it may have been mandatory in order to acquire the print, assuming it was, how well were the changeovers executed?.
Gee Bill it sounds like the projectionists were only a little baffeled by how to properly execute the show.
BUT, It sounds like they really tried, and that’s terrific.
You mentioned the use of the mag sound, which I had hoped they would do, can you tell us, was the movie shown reel-to-reel.
Roadshow, thanks for that overture information, I had forgotten all about that.
Another quick overture story; it was the man himself, Robert Wise, who asked that for “West Side Story "the curtains should remain closed until after the whistles.
He did not want the curtains opening on a blank screen while the whistles played. The first whistle was to be played with full house lights followed by gradual dimming as the second whistle played.
I remember it like it was yesterday. Of course you all remember the overture for WSS had a picture image, as did "My Fair Lady”
The studio boses often attended technical rehersals (dry runs) for most of the roadshows I played.
They ALL had opinions about how the openings should be handled.
It'a all a matter of what each person believes looks best. I went along for the most part with what they asked for, but I drew the line at a white screen. Bosses be damned, that was not going to happen. After all, I was dealing with a studio exec not the film maker. So after the rehersal, and we were rid of he execs, we ran the movie as we saw fit, the right way!
The most memorable for me was “Hello Dolly”, these two kids from Fox wanted the curtain half way open before the, silent as I recall,
Fox logo hit.
I argued, but they insisted, so Joseph Kelly, chief technicial for the at UA theatre circuit at the time, told them
(as he gave me a wink), “no problem, we will run it just as you say”. We ran it that way at both rehersals, then on opening night the curtain opened at the same time as the logo hit the screen.
As far as the speed of the curtain went, since we had very few manual curtains, we would often slow down or speed up the curtain motor(s)to coencide with length of the logo.
Proper presentaion was a lot of fun, sadly a lost art today.
Let me quess LI Oddities, you are a ex-employee with a score to settle, right??
For the record, National Amusements, who owns and operates the Island 16, is hands down one of the best theatre circuit in the country. The conditions you described would never be tolorated at this or any other NA location. I speak with authority since I am proud to have worked for them for over 20 years.
The Managing Director, an old friend of mine, and a veteren of many years, has been there since the theatre opened. I can assure everyone who reads this, he would never allow his theatre to deteriorate to the level described in that prevous post.
How about getting cheered?
I was in th audience at the Coronet one night when after a changeover the sound went dead,after about 3-4 minutes of watching a silent movie the audience began to boo.
I decided to head on up to the booth to see if I could help, when I got there the projectionist was frantically trying to fix the problem to no avail. I knew since he had just made a changeover the problem was probably with the preamp which is located in the lower part of the sound head in that type of projector. Switchimng preamps fixed the problem and the movie resummed. As I came out the booth door, which at the Coronet lead out into the audience,I was greeted with applause.
Speaking of Rob Endres, we have not heasrd from him in a while, anyone know what he is up too, or if he is still involved in the Music Hall at all anymore?
Very scary Jeff, especially watching it at the Ziegfeld, where they will run the overture in the dark, with the curtains open, as we stare at a white sheet (screen).
Peter, keep in mind, the movies they are showing are in the public domain, so there is no licensing or film rental. Sounds strange, but that is what I understand.
By the wsy, Thinking back, I think NA sold Blockbuster.
NA is suppling the DVDs to the theatres directly,
I did not ask where they are getting them from.
But NA’s operates as the parent company of Viacom which includes Blockbuster video :)
Good question Peter, ya know I had not even thought about that.
I called the guys at NA, and it is indead DVD.
Although I imagine many of those titles are still available on 35mm,
I am told it’s just more practical these days to show DVD’s.
Of course, classic films on a platter would be sacrilegous.
Let me be first in line to contribute to this imporant and informative site. Since the demise of most of the great movie palaces we need Cinema Treasures to help hold on to our memories.
Many thanks Patrick,Ross and staff, for helping me, through your website, to hold on to those wonderful memories.
…In fact some of the original Cinerama projection equipment was still in the booth till the end. It was one of those theatres which housed all three Cinerama projectors in the upstairs booth. The Cinerama theare did not haveld two extra projection booths to accomadate the three strip projection.
I am confused. Some days the curtains are used and the sound is fine, other days no curtains and low sound.
Why can’t management find a level that works well to enhance the presentation of the movie. And leave it there?
Should the sound be loud?, of course it should.
Should curtains be used at every performance? of course they should.
Going back to when we first started using stereo sound in theatres we had some patrons who wanted it played lower, I can still see the ole folks running out of the theatre shaking their hearing aid and holding their ears. Well too bad!
I would never allow a couple of people to ruin the experience for all the others, a simple sorry, out of respect for the film maker we have chosen that level of sound and we would rather not change it. Then a pass/refund and be gone with them.
As to the curtains, MarkNYLA wrote maybe the projectionists were too busy to run curtains. The fact is with a Digital presentation all the guy has to do in the first show, and the first show only, is log on to the computer, select the feature, or platter as it is called, and set the timer.
That’s all he has to do the entire day!
Only a second movie or a problem would require the projectionist to go to the computer again. So running curtains and lights, manually if necesary, should be easy to do. I don’t undertand the mind set of a projectionist working the Ziegfeld who would not want to put on a first class show. They need to leave the multiplex mentality at the door.
Now I understand different Digital projection systems work differently, but basically the fact remains that the projectionist has little nothing to do once the inital setup is done in the first show. Anyone disagree? I would love to be enlightened if I am wrong.
Come on Clearview, get this nonsense under control.
DON’T MAKE ME COME UP THERE! :))
Tickets for the 2007 Christmas show are now on sale.
The ad mentions, amoung other things, new effects. It sounded to me like a new spectacular show from the Great Stage was in the offering.
I wonder if I may impose on our RCMH expert REndres to get more information concerning what the new show will offer in the way of stage effects.
I would also like to know if the 3-D opening is still going to be presented and if it will still be 70mm film. I just have this feeling, nay worry, that someday they will switch to a digital format for that portion of the show.
What can you find out Rob?
…and our negitive and positive carbons begin to drift apart causing us to grow dimmer and dimmer.
Rob, we are getting silly in our ole age, bless us!
REndres, I have written many times of the valuable,informative and often entertaining posts you have graced us with here.
General McArthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. That’s us Rob, old projectionist who will never die. I’m not even going to fade away, for as long as I still can, I will preach the ways of showmanship days gone by.
I only wish we could have worked together.
The Ziegfeld took a big step in the right direction with the presentation of “Porgy and Bess”, sure there were some problems, but the important thing is they tried to do it right. I would like to believe this was the result of the comments in this forum regarding proper film presentation techniques, which may have reached Clearview management and projection staff.
We need to continue to pursue the help of those in charge of running our theatres to keep the great art of showmanship alive.
AlAlvarez, may I loving say, as the kids say today,
“What a buzz kill”
William and Jeff, another problem with the mag tracks is the deteriation of the tracks especially in the high freq.
But there was always something wonderful about that wonderful aroma of the mag racks when you opened the film cans, remember that??
Another thing is, you need a Fox sprocket splicer to make repairs, I don’t think the newer tape splicers will not accomidate the mag prints.
We are a lost breed, gentlmen. But thanks to CT,
Showmanship lives on!
What a fasinating story Rob, It just goes to the heart of the matter of being a showman in the booth. It was demanded in some locations back then, but often it was up to us to “put on a show” using all the bells and whistles at our disposal. When it came to running a roadshow, premiere or just opening night, I was always the kid in the candy store. Thank so much for bringing all those wonderful memories back. Like Sinatra once said about Fred and Ginger, you can hope and you can dream but you will never see the likes of that again.
My experiences with two curtains was always just about the same.
Just before the start of the show and the end of the music (non-sync)playing (you never cut a record or faded it out), we would open the the first curtain (contour or traveler) and dim the house lights to
half, after a couple of beats the first frame of the film would hit the screen and the 2nd curtain would open. I recall the audience reaction of applause when the first curtain opened in anticipation of the beginning of the show.
The end of the show in a theatre with a contour and travelor curtain was handled (with all due respect Rob) Music Hall style, with both curtains closing together. it was essentional that the two legs of the curtain kiss as the contour hit the stage, all of this had to Be perfectly timed to the fade out of the movie and the last note of music. ESSENTIAL!
In the case when we had twe travelor curtains, one curtain would be timed so that the two legs kissed at the same time the movie faded. Then the 2nd curtain would be brought in as the stage lights came up.
Of course with roadshows we went completly nuts and created new and different methods of opening and closing the curtains, dimming and raising the house and stage lights to go along with the overtures.
Of course, there was never any pre recorded music (non-sync) played during a roadshow.
God I miss those days!!
Ah yes William, there ya go. I knew there had to be a reason we no longer had the problem after the 70s, thanks for clearing that up.
Perhaps since the Zeigfeld booth has now been “downgraded”,
Clearview will go the extra mile and install the card.
I imagine Dolby is giving them away cheap at this point.
Jeff, I just cannot recall when the tone issue was no longer a problem. I would have to go back to the late 60s, just about the time 4 track prints were beginning to become scarce.
Bill, “Tonight,tonight, won’t be just any night”, at the Zeigfeld.
Seriously, “downgraded”? How rude!
That filter is a part of the preamp and is a
self-contained module that can be replaced. The idea was to be able to turn the 4th channel off when not in use to avoid any unwanted popping or hiss coming from the surrounds when they were not being used.
As Jeff mentioned I have also seen this happen by damage to the track as well. A tech would need to run test loops to determine which of those problems it actually is. Perhaps Zeigfeld management could determine the problem and if it turns out to be a notch filter
the could replace it for the next time. That pitch can be very annoying and distracting.
Bill, I forgot to ask, how did the audience react to the movie?
Often, in an event such as that, folks will applaud at diffent times during the show, etc.
I will never forget opening night at WSS, the crowd applauded every musical number, like it was a live broadway show.
I mentioned the reel-to-reel because I thought it may have been mandatory in order to acquire the print, assuming it was, how well were the changeovers executed?.
Gee Bill it sounds like the projectionists were only a little baffeled by how to properly execute the show.
BUT, It sounds like they really tried, and that’s terrific.
You mentioned the use of the mag sound, which I had hoped they would do, can you tell us, was the movie shown reel-to-reel.
Roadshow, thanks for that overture information, I had forgotten all about that.
Another quick overture story; it was the man himself, Robert Wise, who asked that for “West Side Story "the curtains should remain closed until after the whistles.
He did not want the curtains opening on a blank screen while the whistles played. The first whistle was to be played with full house lights followed by gradual dimming as the second whistle played.
I remember it like it was yesterday. Of course you all remember the overture for WSS had a picture image, as did "My Fair Lady”
The studio boses often attended technical rehersals (dry runs) for most of the roadshows I played.
They ALL had opinions about how the openings should be handled.
It'a all a matter of what each person believes looks best. I went along for the most part with what they asked for, but I drew the line at a white screen. Bosses be damned, that was not going to happen. After all, I was dealing with a studio exec not the film maker. So after the rehersal, and we were rid of he execs, we ran the movie as we saw fit, the right way!
The most memorable for me was “Hello Dolly”, these two kids from Fox wanted the curtain half way open before the, silent as I recall,
Fox logo hit.
I argued, but they insisted, so Joseph Kelly, chief technicial for the at UA theatre circuit at the time, told them
(as he gave me a wink), “no problem, we will run it just as you say”. We ran it that way at both rehersals, then on opening night the curtain opened at the same time as the logo hit the screen.
As far as the speed of the curtain went, since we had very few manual curtains, we would often slow down or speed up the curtain motor(s)to coencide with length of the logo.
Proper presentaion was a lot of fun, sadly a lost art today.
Let me quess LI Oddities, you are a ex-employee with a score to settle, right??
For the record, National Amusements, who owns and operates the Island 16, is hands down one of the best theatre circuit in the country. The conditions you described would never be tolorated at this or any other NA location. I speak with authority since I am proud to have worked for them for over 20 years.
The Managing Director, an old friend of mine, and a veteren of many years, has been there since the theatre opened. I can assure everyone who reads this, he would never allow his theatre to deteriorate to the level described in that prevous post.
How about getting cheered?
I was in th audience at the Coronet one night when after a changeover the sound went dead,after about 3-4 minutes of watching a silent movie the audience began to boo.
I decided to head on up to the booth to see if I could help, when I got there the projectionist was frantically trying to fix the problem to no avail. I knew since he had just made a changeover the problem was probably with the preamp which is located in the lower part of the sound head in that type of projector. Switchimng preamps fixed the problem and the movie resummed. As I came out the booth door, which at the Coronet lead out into the audience,I was greeted with applause.
Speaking of Rob Endres, we have not heasrd from him in a while, anyone know what he is up too, or if he is still involved in the Music Hall at all anymore?
Very scary Jeff, especially watching it at the Ziegfeld, where they will run the overture in the dark, with the curtains open, as we stare at a white sheet (screen).
Peter, keep in mind, the movies they are showing are in the public domain, so there is no licensing or film rental. Sounds strange, but that is what I understand.
By the wsy, Thinking back, I think NA sold Blockbuster.
NA is suppling the DVDs to the theatres directly,
I did not ask where they are getting them from.
But NA’s operates as the parent company of Viacom which includes Blockbuster video :)
Good question Peter, ya know I had not even thought about that.
I called the guys at NA, and it is indead DVD.
Although I imagine many of those titles are still available on 35mm,
I am told it’s just more practical these days to show DVD’s.
Of course, classic films on a platter would be sacrilegous.
National Screen Service, which distributed all movie trailers from the 40s thru the early 90s, also produced many intermission trailers, snipes etc.
Let me be first in line to contribute to this imporant and informative site. Since the demise of most of the great movie palaces we need Cinema Treasures to help hold on to our memories.
Many thanks Patrick,Ross and staff, for helping me, through your website, to hold on to those wonderful memories.
So sorry to hear that another one has bit the dust.
…In fact some of the original Cinerama projection equipment was still in the booth till the end. It was one of those theatres which housed all three Cinerama projectors in the upstairs booth. The Cinerama theare did not haveld two extra projection booths to accomadate the three strip projection.