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Nope, Red did tests and found 35mm film to be approximately equivalent to 3.2/3.5k, but that gets down to around 2k when you get to mass produced release prints, which is what I said.
Here it is from cinematographer David Mullen (who has shot major features and television):
“It’s easier to just talk about the resolution on the original negative and avoid bringing in the resolution of various printing and projection methods, etc. Red has tested Super-35 and generally found it to be, I forgot, 3.2K or 3.5K, something like that.
You could therefore say that if a 24mm wide piece of film negative resolves 3.2K, for example, a 36mm wide piece of film (VistaVision) would resolve 4.8K, and a 52mm wide piece of film (5-perf 65mm Super Panavision / Todd-AO) would resolve 6.9K, and a 70mm wide piece of film (15-perf 65mm IMAX) would resolve 9.3K. However, this ignores some real-world issues like the fact that older medium-format lenses used on large format movie cameras have a lower MTF compared to modern 35mm cine optics (because the larger negatives don’t need lenses with high MTF’s because if you have more millimeters overall, you don’t need to resolve as many lines per millimeter…)
If you really want to be crude, you could say that you lose maybe half the resolution of the negative once it is printed through dupe elements and thrown onto a theater screen, which is why 2K projection seems on par with the best 35mm print projection, and 4K projection would be similar to 70mm projection, but it therefore also means that IMAX digital projection should be at least 6K…"
Don’t confuse comfort with mathematical certainty. And unless you’ve seen Hateful 8 under optimal 4K digital projection, how do you know the 70mm was better?
“It is well known that digital projectors go out of date way quicker than any 35mm film projectors ever did!”
That’s because digital is constantly evolving where film has remained stagnant for decades. You’re basically confirming that film now is as good as it’ll ever get but digital is constantly and rapidly evolving and getting better and better. That’s not really the strongest argument in favor of film. Take the emotional love for film out and look at this from a purely logical/technical standpoint… would you rather have a tech that has hit it’s ceiling or one that is being made better every year? REGARDLESS of where you think each sits today…
I’ve seen Hateful 8 in both 70mm and DCP. Care to guess which one looked better? (I’ll give you a hint… it WASN’T the 70mm, which had various focus, dirt, and stability issues- none of which were present on the much sharper/more detailed/more stable DCP)
Digital acquisition and projection is improving every single year. Film is exactly the same as it’s been for decades. I love film for nostalgic reasons, but the MASSIVE improvements that digital has seen in only about a decade of existence is why it’s the future. 35mm release prints are the rough equivalent of about 2K, so 4K digital projection (and especially when you start to introduce laser and HDR/DolbyVison) are already superior to film on the majority of releases. And Arri has already released a 65mm 6K digital Alexa, so even 65/70mm film is getting lapped by digital acquisition. Film’s days are numbered and instead of calling out people as laser/digital apologists, try to understand that these improvements in digital are only going to continue to equal/surpass film as time goes on. Rigidly gripping onto 35 and 70mm film means keeping the technological advances of movie making stagnant and less than it could/should be. This isn’t 2002 when Lucas was shooting Attack of the Clones at 1080p. We’re way past that. Try to keep up.
The IMAX screen is now sporting Laser projection.
It can if there’s no 70mm option available…
Sorry, I had posted this but was asked to keep it quiet until Arclight had a chance to announce it themselves (which is why I deleted it a few days ago)…
ARCLIGHT CINEMAS BRINGS THE DOME INTO A NEW GALAXY OF VIEWING
ArcLight Announces an incredible cinematic viewing experience for guests starting with “Star Wars” release in the historic Cinerama Dome
(LOS ANGELES, CA—December 15, 2015 2015) ArcLight Cinemas, a premiere movie-going destination is excited to announce their collaboration withChristie® and Dolby® to bring the most advanced movie-viewing experience possible for ArcLight guests at the legendary Cinerama Dome in time for the most anticipated movie experience of the year “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Beginning this Thursday, December 17th, visitors to The Dome will be fully immersed in both cinematic history and new technology.
“We are always looking for the most innovative and immersive experience for our guests and feel the timing is perfect to bring the laser viewing experience to The Dome, which has such an iconic cinema history in Hollywood,” states Gretchen McCourt, Executive Vice President, ArcLight Cinemas.
The Dome has been upgraded with dual-head Christie 6P laser projectors and Dolby® 3D, which can project more than double the light of an average 3D projection system and will enable guests to view the nuances of the film and thoroughly enjoy the brilliance of “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” and future releases. Christie®extends the boundaries of 3D cinema with dramatically increased 3D light levels combined with Dolby® 3D advanced color separation technology. The Dome is already one of the largest screens in the nation and with the projection upgrade, it will be one of the largest screens with Christie laser projection.
“For more than 50 years, the iconic Cinerama Dome has been pushing the technological boundaries of movie presentations, and with the installation of the groundbreaking Christie 6-Primary (6P) dual-head laser projection system, ArcLight Cinemas is once again ensuring that their patrons have a most memorable movie-going experience,” said George Scheckel, senior director, Americas, for Christie. “We congratulate ArcLight on their choice, which continues our decade-long relationship that has seen Christie install scores of projectors in the chain’s theater throughout the United States.”
Dolby® 3D uses advanced color separation technology instead of the polarization technology. That makes it ideally suited for next generation laser projectors, which generate more light and create brighter images than bulb projectors. Dolby® 3D uses the laser’s native color light sources (red, green, blue) so no filters or light re-cycling is required.
ABOUT ArcLight Cinemas
ArcLight Cinemas, created by Pacific Theatres, a privately owned, Los Angeles based company with 60 years of theatrical exhibition history throughout California, Hawaii and Washington is a premiere moviegoing experience with an unparalleled commitment to bringing a variety of rich cinematic content to moviegoers in all markets. ArcLight Cinemas operates eight theaters in California including Hollywood, Pasadena, Sherman Oaks, El Segundo, Santa Monica, Culver City and La Jolla, as well as one theater in Bethesda, Md, Chicago and Glenview, Ill. ArcLight also owns and operates the historic Cinerama Dome and programs the TCL Chinese Theatre and IMAX in Hollywood. Pacific Theatres currently operates theaters in Los Angeles that include The Grove and The Americana at Brand in Glendale, Calif. Additional information about ArcLight Cinemas is available at www.arclightcinemas.com/
Connect with ArcLight:
https://twitter.com/ArcLightCinemas and https://www.facebook.com/ArclightCinemas
Christie Digital Systems USA, Inc. is a global visual and audio technologies company and is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Ushio, Inc., Japan, (JP:6925). Consistently setting the standards by being the first to market some of the world’s most advanced projectors and complete system displays, Christie is recognized as one of the most innovative visual technology companies in the world. From retail displays to Hollywood, mission critical command centers to classrooms and training simulators, Christie display solutions and projectors capture the attention of audiences around the world with dynamic and stunning images. Visitwww.christiedigital.com.
Christmas day shows for Star Wars now on sale in the Dome. So there’s your confirmation that there will be, in fact, no Hateful Eight 70mm in the Dome. At least not until mid January.
And the Village is showing Star Wars, so… same problem. Honestly, the Weinsteins should just move up H8 2 weeks to get out ahead of Star Wars. But instead it’s the perfect storm of the theaters most capable of playing H8 also being the ones most capable of playing Star Wars the best. The fact that the Weinsteins STILL haven’t released the theater list of 70mm engagements is telling in how hard it’s been locking down theaters less than a week after Episode VII.
It’s probably too late now, but I wonder what would have to be done to the Pacific 1-2-3 (Warner) on Hollywood Blvd to make it a temporary roadshow house for 4-6 weeks. I’m sure it’d be extremely pricey, but it’d be worth it.
I thought the same thing, but recent conversations with Arclight have given me doubt.
RogerA… Arclight is telling a different tale. Star Wars in the Dome for a month.
Don’t be surprised if Hateful 8 doesn’t make it to the Cinerama Dome (despite being the perfect venue for it). It’s looking more and more like Star Wars is going to bump it to a smaller screen inside.
Hmmm… that would certainly be a question for Michael Coate. He’d be the one most likely to know. Let me see if I can get him here.
I would think the Village and Bruin theaters, both in Westwood, would qualify. The Village opened in 1931 and the Bruin in 1937. Both still show first run films (the Village currently has Mad Max and the Bruin has Tomorrowland).
Yeah, I saw the 8pm Thursday showing of Catching Fire at the Chinese (first showing ever) and it was barely half full. It’s certainly picked up since then. I think a lot of people had abandoned the Chinese when it wasn’t showing much (and also, truth be told, it ended up being a bit too tourist-y for most locals, who instead were more inclined to go to the less hectic Arclight and Grove). The average movie-goer probably hadn’t seen a film there in several years. I’m a massive movie-goer and had probably only been there 6 times in the 5 years before the conversion (I went twice in 2011 and didn’t even step foot inside there in 2012). Catching Fire was only two months after the re-opening and I just don’t think anyone knew about it.
The other thing to remember is that no one uses a newspaper anymore for showtimes and the Chinese didn’t fall under some larger corporation, so to find out what was playing at the Chinese, you had to seek it out. The showtimes weren’t sitting there across from the Pacific ad or under the AMC times. That’s another reason I think it took a little while to get the word out. As I said, I think the fact that they specifically installed a 70mm film projector for Interstellar got the theater a lot of eyeballs again. There was a lot of press that they were doing this and I think it put the Chinese back on people’s radar.
Yeah, Danny’s right. It’s hard to compare before to after since the last few years of the Chinese before the IMAX conversion they were booking nothing but junk (essentially what The Dome and the El Cap didn’t want) and holding onto it for waaaaay too long (they ran Tyler Perry’s Temptation for 4 weeks… it wasn’t an engagement, it was a sentence). Every once in a while they’d book something big (like The Hobbit in HFR3D), but they’d still be stuck playing it to empty houses for weeks (7 in this case) after the opening weekend flurry came and went. Now, they can book with more frequency and get films they didn’t have access to before. They didn’t even run Avengers for a full two weeks (returning Furious 7 in there for the last 3.5 days). I’m not so sure it even outdraws the El Capitan across the street. The El Capitan has a crazy following and sells out faster then the Dome even.
The better news about the Chinese is that it is now IMAX’s premiere house. Whether it’s installing a film projector to present Interstellar (the first time since Harry Potter 7.2 that an actual line formed on Hollywood Blvd) or the new laser projector, IMAX is treating this theater like home base.
It’s definitely picked up. It still doesn’t sell out like the IMAX in Universal City would, but it’s also got twice the amount of seats. It seemed like it was a fairly well kept secret for a while, but the secret seems to be getting out little by little. The 70mm film run of Interstellar did a lot to get people back in there to realize what they’d done with the IMAX conversion. It doesn’t really seem to be totally keeping pace with the Dome on the same films, but a quick glance at the seating for tonight’s Mad Max evening shows seem to maybe be slightly fuller at the Chinese versus the Dome.
No, Arclight now runs the Dome pretty much exclusively 2D. You could also hit up the Village and the Bruin in Westwood, they stagger 2D and 3D.
It’s too bad, because IMAX has branded all of these films as “The IMAX 3D Experience” meaning they won’t even show any of these films in 2D because their branding is more important to them than their customers. That means 3D only for Mad Max, San Andreas, Jurassic World, Terminator Genesys, etc, regardless of what their audience actually wants.
I agree, it’s sad because I really want to support the Chinese and keep them strong, but I’m not going to settle for an experience I don’t want to do so. My next trip to the Chinese won’t be until Mission Impossible at the end of July.
Yeah, sooooo… While I was supremely impressed with the new IMAX Laser projection during Furious 7, I was far less impressed with IMAX Laser 3D during Mad Max Fury Road. The new glasses (which remind me of Dolby 3D’s) are murky and cloudy. Nearly everyone in our group (of 13) for Mad Max last night said they attempted several times in the first 15-20 minutes to clean them, realizing eventually that that’s just how they are. Not so noticeable during bright scenes, but distracting during darker ones. They’re also quite a bit smaller than the old IMAX 3D glasses, meaning the closer you sit, there’s a chance that the “lenses” on the new glasses won’t be big enough to completely clear the screen and will block part of the image.
We were thinking we might be seeing Episode VII there this December and Mad Max was a test, but we’ve ruled that out with the current Laser 3D tech. It’s too bad they can’t offer up IMAX 2D showings staggered with the 3D. Then at least people have a choice and don’t get forced the, in my eyes, substandard experience.
Yeah, the sound post IMAX conversion wasn’t very impressive. Very loud but not very crisp or detailed. Since the redo with the 12.1 it seems to have fixed that problem and made the sound better than ever.
My understanding is that IMAX won’t allow masking on IMAX branded presentations. They want that full screen displayed regardless of whether or not it’s fully used. I agree, on stuff like Furious 7 that doesn’t shift aspect ratios, it would be nice to get it masked properly. I will say, however, that with the new laser projection and new deep black levels, I almost could never tell there was no masking. Hopefully IMAX relaxes that rule in the future, but they want to make sure audiences know their screens are BIIIIIIIIG!!!!
Laser projection at the Chinese is tremendous! The new IMAX trailer that played before the Furious 7 had the deepest black levels and most vivid colors I’ve ever seen projected anywhere. And the picture on that huge screen was razor sharp and jaw droppingly beautiful. In fact (and shockingly since F7 had a 2K DI), you could see a definite drop in quality when the movie pulled in footage from Tokyo Drift (which was Super35). Aside from the slightly bigger screen overall, the sound appears to be better as well. At least 4 new ceiling speakers were counted. I wasn’t a huge fan of the sound at the Chinese since the IMAX redo, but I’m converted with this redo redo. It was truly spectacular.
Word is that this theater (which I had the pleasure of asst. managing about 23 years ago) is now closed.
That’s not what I said or was talking about… I understand the differences between the IMAX and the mass cropped scope versions. I know the business, the current business, after all. I was making a point about how the Chinese is handling this release (and only THIS release). It’s a compromise that Universal City won’t have.
Actually… What any good business man knows is that profit trumps volume. Would you rather sell 50 buggy whips and make $20 or sell 20 and make $50? Your answer will tell me what kind of business man you are. Eventually that may catch up to itself, but it hasn’t yet. When Disney goes to it’s shareholders, do you think they say, “We made a record profit this year, but unfortunately the number of actual ticket sold were down. Best to get out now despite the profit.”
And no… the Chinese isn’t going to do it -completely- right. Because they installed a 1.90:1 screen for digital IMAX, they’re actually going to be reducing screen size for the scope portions of Interstellar and masking big chunks of the screen on the left and the right to accommodate the full height of the IMAX filmed portions (Which is something I warned would happen when the Chinese was being discussed last year). Look at the seating chart for the Chinese and you’ll see they’re not selling seats in the lower right and left because those will be outside of the reconfigured frame. So even though they’re doing it as “right” as possible, those expecting to see Interstellar from wall to wall are going to be disappointed.
I’d rather sell 1 seat and make $14 than 2 seats and make $10. A dollar trumps a seat and last year was more $$$ than ever before. Where have you been?
And where are you going where they can’t project a bright clear picture with good sound. I usually don’t have problems at Arclight, the Chinese, the Regencys in Westwood. Maybe you should be better at choosing theaters.
And yet, as an 18 year old who was not a professional projectionist… I was great at the job (which, btw, was in addition to assistant managing). When building prints I used tricks like overlapping a sliver of the heads and tails of a reel so that you didn’t get audible pops out of the optical soundtrack. I’d use clear tape for reel change and apply a sliver of colored tape outside the sprocket holes so that you didn’t get dropouts in sound or black flashes on screen at reel changes. I insisted on tracking down the DTS cd-roms for Jurassic Park when we ran it a year later before the VHS and LaserDisc release so that we could be one of the only ones running it in 6-track digital during it’s re-release in late 94. I also insisted we put it in our largest theater (which was about 600 seats with a vary large screen) and I made sure we ran the curtains appropriately. We did about 40% of the city’s entire Jurassic business that week.
I’ve seen many a brain wrap at the hands of union projectionists. We had a union projectionist build up Exorcist 3 with reels 3&4 swapped and nobody noticed until Monday afternoon. When I saw The Rocketeer at Arclight a few years ago (it was reel to reel), every other reel was mono (which the projectionist never fixed despite several complaints from me). I was told that they unfortunately had reels from a mono print as well as a stereo print, but anyone who knows anything about optical tracks (especially circa 91) knows that’s not how it works. A “professional” projectionist would surely know that, right? Oh, and take a guess where the only place I’ve ever had a problem with digital projection is?? The Arclight- Once when the projector was flashing purple digital blocks during a screening of Paranorman and once when they had to reboot the projector for whatever reason and start over. So even the underpaid Arclight projectionists there to “handle problems” can’t always seem to.
Quality and presentation has nothing to do with your job title and everything to do with your passion and drive. If the presentation quality of these theaters has deteriorated, it really has very little to do with the job title of the people in the booth and more about the types of people they’re putting in that booth.
Like I said, projectionists the past 20 years have really been more about keeping schedules than anything else. Now, with everything as automated as it is, that responsibility is becoming evermore unnecessary. Should theaters be expected to pay more for someone on site just on the off chance that they might someday have a problem that needs fixing immediately? There’s no more prints to be built, there’s no more projector threading, there’s no more reels to be rewound, there’s no cleaning of projectors between every show. While I understand your romanticism of the projectionist as a symbol of movie-going (I really get it), it’s an increasingly outdated concept (as is the Pony Express).
I’m a special features producer for DVD and Blu-ray and as I’ve seen the market change and the demand for my job shift, I’d had reevaluate my role and decide how to adapt to make myself relevant (and successful) in the future. These guys seem to be clinging to Interstellar as a last hurrah to better their situation because they know it’s their LAST hurrah, for better or worse. It is what it is.
And the idea of putting the theater managers out to pasture because of lack of business is just dumb. 2013 set a new record of $10.9 BILLION in North America and while this year is going to be down (but not by much overall… less than half a billion at this point), next year will, in all likelihood, be even bigger and almost certainly break $11 billion.
In Arclight’s defense… it’s not like film projectionist is an in demand job anymore. We weren’t utilizing projectionists when I was working for United Artists 20 years ago (other than district-wide “maintenance”), so I’m not sure what’s changed. Projectionists used to be a vital part of the exhibition of film (with the necessary film changeovers and projector maintenance), but as we moved to platters and certainly now with digital, the role and importance of the projectionist is evermore questionable. This is not to start a debate on film vs digital, but just a question about the demand and supply of projectionists in the current exhibition climate. Most theaters really need part-time DITs now (again… district wide). It’s like being the guy who still maintains the horses for the Pony Express complaining that he’s underpaid.