Times Square Theater

Now Michael, this would be something for the New York City Opera to look into. And what about the mini-Met? Yeah, right. They demolished the Empire, the Rialto, the Liberty, and combined the Lyric and the Apollo. What new acts of vandalism will the city of New York commit against itself?

The Times Square Theatre is located at 217 W. 42nd Street and it seated at one time 1056 people. You can see some of the exterior of this theatre in the 1980 movie "Times Square" and some of the other area marquees.

The auditorium ran parallel to 42nd Street. After conversion to a movie house in 1934, the stage housing was gutted to make room for stores that fronted on 42nd Street.

is this still up, or has it been torn down?

The Times Square is still standing. About three months ago, the front was boarded over and work began inside to clean it up. They've also 'reattached' the stage, which had been bricked off to serve as retail space some years ago. What will they use it for?? To my knowledge, it's available for restaurant or retail space. It cannot be used for legit, as the load in for the stage would be on 42nd St, and that's not allowed by city ordinance.

The stage had basically a brick box built on it. That was the store. The stage house was very much restorable.

A story in The New York Times of 7/15/04 (page B4) said that the Times Square Theatre will be converted into a four-level, $25 millon retail store operated by Ecko Unlimited, "the high-flying hip-hop clothing and lifestyle company." A lease was signed last week, and the store hopes to open in early 2006. Ecko will keep many of the building's historic features, from the 25-foot high proscenium arch over the stage to the ornamental plasterwork and the domed ceiling.

The Times Square featured mostly western double features in the 50s & 60s. Usually a combination of two Audie Murphy films, or recent low budget "B" westerns with George Montgomery, Scott Brady, Rory Calhoun, etc. No John Wayne stuff here. The lobby was extremely small and they displayed movie heralds of coming attractions over the ticket taker. The theater was the center of the 5 on the North side of the street, situated between the Apollo and the Lyric. Jerry the K

I am looking for a listing of all movie theaters that were located on 42nd street around 1969 to late 1980's, that played kunfu movies and others.If you have any information I would greatly appreaciated.

Here you go, JB. This was the line-up in the 50s/60s.

On the North side, going from West to East:
Selwyn (usually showed 1st run films a week after The Lyric),
Apollo (foreign)
Times Square (western re-releases)
Lyric (1st run double features)
Victory (re-releases, usually action or Bowery Boys. Great double features)
On the South Side, going East to West:
New Amsterdam (1st Run double features)
Harris (usually a week after the New Amsterdam)
Liberty (some new stuff, mostly re-releases)
Empire (great re-releases; creative bookings. Believe they went Kung Fu triple features)
Anco (more great re-releases, sometimes picked up shows after the Harris if they were popular....e.g., Night of the Living Dead)

Check out my site...www.42ndstreetmemories.com for a shot of The Deuce. Jerry

The kung fu movies were playd at the Empire through the early 80's. AMC took the lobby and front of the Empire and relocted it down the block which is where the Anco used to be. Brandt theaters ran the Empire, Selwyn,Anco, Times Square, Victory. The Neederlnder organization (Palace, Marquis, Lunt Fontaine, Richard Rogers, Neederlander) ran the New Amsterdamn.

A minor correction is in order. The entire Empire structure - lock, stock, and barrel - was moved; its former auditorium now serves as the lobby for the AMC megaplex which surrounds it.

Thanks. I thought they moved only the lobby.Wow can u imagine a whole theater that is now serving as a lobby. Technology.

I'm looking for photos of the interior of this theater. Does anyone know where I can find some?

My friend Steve Young used to be the District Manager for Brandt theatres. He has a million great stories about these houses. I wish he would get on-line and share his memories.

Interior and exterior photos can be found in "Lost Broadway Theatres" by Nicholas Van Hoogstraten and "Broadway Theatres" by William Morrison. Both books are still in print and also in many libraries.

Who's idea was it to paint this place that awful green?

Where can I find images of the outside of the theater.....marquee, box office...etc. Thanks, Jerry

I should have added....images from the 50's-60's. Jerry

Saw a big rat stuck to a glue trap here once. It cried throughout the show; not a pretty sound.

Photos dated 1986 and 2001 of the exterior of the Times Square Theatre can be found on the cover of the book 'Times Square Roulette' by Lynne B. Sagalyn. (The boxy, 1950s era marquee that once broadcast the Times Square's current attractions to Deuce passersby was removed in mid-April of 1996.)

The Ecko Unlimited company has now placed large banners covering the front of theatre to announce the coming of their new store in future.

Most of the old 42nd St movie theaters can currently be seen on a Travel Channel show focusing on Times Square. The clips of the Deuce are during the mid-70s and current timeframes. It was shown on December 26. So it should be still in its rotation.
Jerry 42nd Street Memories

Thanks for the tip! I was able to watch the special last night on TC. Enjoyed seeing all the pics from the old days. I wish I could've seen Times Square and 42nd St. before they changed and tore down so many of the old theaters. I had to laugh about the Toys R Us store though. Isnt that out of business allready. (another theater replaced!).

TJ, it was a great thrill as a kid, in the 50s-60s, to go up to The Deuce. Since then didn't advertise, you never knew what goodies you'd find. They had some creative programming before the porno-Kung Fu-slasher onslaught. Each theater pretty much had a niche. The Times Square theater was a haven for the western fan, like me. Jerry 42nd Street Memories

This is an edited repost of something I recently addded to the New Amsterdam page:

It was a thrill to come up out of the subway on Wednesday (and later Friday) mornings, make the U-turn onto 42nd Street, and see all those wonderful marquees with their breathless descriptions of the new double and triple bills awaiting inside. I loved seeing 9:00am movies at rock-bottom prices instead of going to college classes!

saps, the thrill of coming up on the subway on 8th avenue, having a hot dog (with mustard relish) and pulpy orange drink, then turning the corner toward the Selwyn is something I will never forget. Your right about the marquees hawking the double/triple features. When were you there? Jerry 42nd Street Memories

The Brandt organization kept these theatres up for decades. The New Amsterdam was in better shape under Brandt than it was under the Nederlanders.brucec

BruceC, the New Amsterdam, Harris and Anco were not under the Brandt banner; I don't know who ran those three. But Brandt had the Victory, Lyric, Times Square, Apollo, Selwyn, Liberty and Empire.

Jerry, I was there from about 1973 until the bitter end...at the Movieplex (in the old Roxy Burlesque site.) I would come up on the 7th Avenue exit, next to the newstand (which is still there). As my eyes swept the street the first marquees I'd see would be the Rialto and Victory, then the Lyric, and then I'd finish my initial sweep looking straight ahead at the New Amsterdam. Damn!

Is there any way to retrieve the bookings information on the 42nd Street Theaters, back in the 50s-60s, especially the Empire, Anco, Times Sqaure, Victory, Liberty? I went through the NY Times microfiche at the library and found some mention of the more mainstream New Amsterdam, Lyric, Harris, Selwyn but nothing on the others. Thanks for any info. Jerry 42nd Street Memories

Once again, no mention of what is probably the most least talked about theatre on The Deuce, the Cine 42. Can be seen in the movie Taxi Driver and is currently still in tact, and in existence. It is however the most hidden theatre on 42nd as it's whole facade is completely blanketed by giant disney lion king billboards. Even the new 42nd companies website has no mention of it. In its map of the area, it includes it as part of the New Amsterdam. Which begs my question, what are they doing with this space!

During the 60's, the New Amsterdam, Harris and Anco Theatres were operated by Cinema Circuit Corp. Their other New York Theatres were the Ace and Burland & Prospect in the Bronx and the Astor in Brooklyn and Park Hill in Yonkers.

I'm not familiar with the Cine 42. What was its exact address? I suspect that it was not a purpose-built theatre but converted from existing retail space.

Oh the Cine 42 was indeed a theatre space. It is hidden behind giant disney/lion king billboards which actually cover every single square inch of its facade. I believe its address is 218 W 42nd. This was a theatre which had a marquee the size of any other on the block and was their for quite some time. Yet it seems to go under the radar.

i saw this the other day on bike. if you really notice it, behind each billboard you can see the facades underneath of the theaters, esp near the roxy liquor store. what a shame all that bs commercialism and fake sunlight has to hide some beautiful architecture.

I just found a beautiful color clip of the Times Square and entire north side of 42nd Street from 1956 on the gettyimages.com website. The Selwyn is showing (3 Coins in the Fountain & Love is a Many Splendid Thing), Apollo (Naked Night & Divided Heart), Times Square (always westerns.....Best of the Badmen & Badman's Territory - note the creative title programming, not unusual for 42nd St in the 50s), Lyric (Man in the Grey Flannel Suit & Magnificent Roughnecks), Victory (Purple Heart & Guadalcanal Diary). Here's the link http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/Film/filmresultsmain.aspx?source=general&masterID=561-55&brandID=14&detailView=1

Jerry 42nd Street Memories

Great shot of the Apollo, TImes Square & Lyric around 1950 can be seen here:

http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/classes/FrameSet.aspx?&UQR=imurpj&pk=4&source=front&lightboxView=1&txtSearch=42nd%20street&chkLicensed=on&chkRoyaltyFree=on&selImageType=1

Two Jennifer Jones pictures on 42nd Street!

I can't find a listing here for the Times Theatre, which was on the SW corner of Eighth Avenue & 42nd Street until replaced by an extension of the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Could it be listed under some other name? If not, I'll try to post a listing.

Warren,
What type of programming did the theater have and when did it close? Thanks. Jerry

Here is a circa-1935 exterior view of the Times Square Theatre from the NYPL's digital collection.

Warren, there is a beautiful shot of the Times Theater at the link above. Thanks again, Bryan. These are real beauties.

Here's a fairly recent exterior view of the former Times Square Theatre with the Ford Center visible on the right.

This shot of the Times Square sandwiched between the Apollo & Lyric in 1967 will give you some idea of the programming for the Times Square which boasted ALWAYS TWO ACTION HITS.

In November 1969, the bookings for the week went like this:
SAT.....Prehistoric Women & War Wagon
SUN.....Goliath and the Vampire & California
Mon & Tues...Sons of Katie Elder & King's Pirate
Wed & Thurs...Cyborg 2087 & Tall Women
Fri & Sat....Hellfighters & Bandolero

3 different John Wayne bookings in one week.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a56/42ndStreetMemories/?action=view¤t=42apollotimessquare1967QuillerM.jpg

The Times Square and Apollo in 1935
http://photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/?action=view¤t=TS.jpg

Some great shots of the marquee and some of Times Square from 1979,in the movie TIMES SQUARE. and one quick off to the side shot of the WORLD TRADE CENTER Towers.

You can see a beautiful color interior photo of the unrestored auditorium of this theatre shot by Andrew Moore in the Vol. 6, No. 2 issue of 2wice magazine.
In addition, there are 2 interior photos of the Selwyn (Seats and Dressing Room) in a decayed state.
You can view these photos on line at www.2wice.org
Just click on the Glow issue, then Havana/New York.
They also sell back issues of this magazine.
In addition, you can view a color photgraph of the balcony of the Times Square theatre, shot by Moore, on page 58 of the March, 1997 issue of Harper's Magazine.
Check out the photographers website at: www.andrew-moore.info
to see a total of 11 photos of unrestored 42nd street theatres
including 1 from the Liberty, 2 from the New Amsterdam, 4 from the Selwyn and 2 from the Times Square.
There is also 1 exterior of the Lyric as well as the Diner next door to the Selwyn.
He also has 4 recent exterior photos of 42nd Street.
When you go to the site, click on Times Square 1995-2005 to bring up the theatre photographs.
Enjoy!

I would always marvel at the beauty of all those magnificent marquees, the people who changed them week after week were true artists,the lettering was always perfectly spaced and centered.
Truly a lost art form.

Is anyone aware of any progress on renovations and conversion work here? Ecko was slated to open by the start of 2006... and here we are!

Here's an excellent but dated web page that features a 2004 NY Times article about the (then) newly announced plans for Ecko to take over the Times Square Theater plus a number of great photos of the north side of 42nd Street from various years - most notably a few shots from the mid '90's that more or less document a chronology (albeit one that is out of sequence on the page) of the block.

I'm still wondering if Ecko has opened yet. Can't find anything about it yet on the web - even on Ecko's own site. Anyone walk by here on a routine basis?

Work is happening, but it's still closed.

Ok deja vu! I was reading about a series of movies in the 60's called "New York Roughies", which were basically silent, overdubbed later, black & white nudie flix with little plot that played the grindhouses of 42nd street. So I rent one from NetFlix. Ok, came today, it's called "The Ultimate Degenerate" by Michael and Roberta Findlay on Something Weird DVD. Their story alone would make a good film. So I'm watching this "masterpiece", sorry, not my cup of tea but an interesting time capsule non the less and low and behold they have a Times Square night shot. They showed The Victoria showing Sammy Davis Jr. & Peter Lawford in "Salt And Pepper" and The Rialto on the corner of Broadway & 42nd playing "Therese and Isabelle" and then the shot turns the corner down 42nd street. What comes up first is a beautiful shot of a marquee with "That Woman" 13th Big Week playing. Finish the flick, click onto Cinema Treasures, see this post, click on EdSolero's link and there is the same marquee shot only during the day! All in an hour's time. Too cool.

Ha! Glad to be a part of that synchronicity, BobT... I should probably post this on the Rialto site, but the marquee in that photo in my link advertising "That Woman" would seem to be one of the Rialto marquees. Note the decorations above the marquee and the boasting that this is "New York's Newest Movie Theater"... would that be a result of the "twinning" of the Rialto by opening a 2nd theater in the basement space? There was another identical marquee to the right of that one for the Rialto's other auditorium - which was the original from 1935 when the theater opened on the very site of a previous and larger Rialto.

This is a photo showing the Apollo and Times Square theater. It appears to be from the late 1930's.

Here is another photo that is supposed to be from the 1940's. This photo has the Apollo, Times Square, Lyric, and Victory Theater.

LM,
Looks like 1947, the year that CRY WOLF with Stanwyck & Flynn came out. jerry

Was on the block last night at the New Victory with the kids. The theater is still covered in scaffolding on which is hung a large blue banner the entire width of the building (referenced in a post by William back on December 8th, 2004) announcing the alleged Ecko Unlimited retail outlet "coming in 2006". I took a couple of photos of the place but, unfortunately, the one long shot of the hidden facade was deleted in the transfer to my computer! Anyway... I did manage to take a couple of angled shots peaking up at the facade behind the scaffolding from in front of the old Apollo entrance (now part of the Hilton Theater complex).

Facade over Apollo entrace
Another peak behind the scaffolding

I wonder when this site will open already!

I scanned in some photos I took of the mostly closed Duece theaters in October 1993 and uploaded them to my photobucket account. Here are the shots for the Times Square:

1993 Times Square long shot

1993 Times Square facade

In the second photo above, notice the sign for the "Apollo Karate Academy" over the former Apollo Theater entrance. Did they practice their arts in the old foyer?!? In the first photo you can see the marquee for the Harris Theater, which was still in operation at the time. A sign was hung under the canopy announcing the coming of Movieplex 42 in the former Roxy Twin location down the block. I'll posted a shot of the Harris marquee on its CT page.

Meanwhile... here's a scan of a 2002 photo I shot of the Times Square facade from one of the upper level windows at Madam Toussaud's Wax Museum:

2002 Times Square

Here's an ad from the 12/12/80 edition of the Daily News that advertises a film that seems to have been booked into the Times Square exclusively for Manhattan (while playing nabes all over the boroughs and burbs):

Cheerleader's Wild Weekend

The really interesting thing is that this seems to be a re-release of a 1979 film originally entitled "The Great American Girl Robbery" that, according to IMDB.COM, did not involve Leon Isaac Kennedy (who is featured prominently in the advertising) in any capacity whatsoever!!! What a set on the guys at Aquarius Releasing for pulling that stunt, huh? Shamelessly trying to make a buck off the popularity of Kennedy's exploitation circuit hit "Penitentiary"!

Check out the film advertised at the bottom of this 1978 clipping from the Daily News:

Female Fever - NY Daily News 1/28/78
The ad was run amidst a cluster of porn ads and it sure does look like a typical XXX flick from the period, but I'm guessing this was more of the soft "X" variety that one found in abundance on the Duece in the late '60's and early '70's - hence the "Adults Only" warning instead of a circled X in the ad. The fact that it is also playing a suburban drive-in would lead me to believe it wasn't a true XXX.

I could find no reference on imdb about the film (I didn't think I would) but I did see that its distributor - Downtown Distribution Corp - was listed as being responsible for at least a pair of mid '70's Godzilla imports and a martial arts flick.

The film was one of those "R" rated softcores. The Times Square was one of my favorite theaters in the 50s, since it was nothing but westerns. Sorry it came to this.

Here's the poster.

Thanks, Jerry. My time on the Duece came just after the period when this film was released. I would have loved to have experienced the cleaner and safer 42nd Street of the 50's and early 60's, but I'm happy to have been able to enjoy those latter years despite all the grime and crime. It seemed fine in the early '80's - my friends and I hardly gave a second thought to any danger. It grew old very fast, however. By 1984-5 we started to give up on many of the Duece grind houses because they started smelling like urinals... and the western end of the strip was terribly foreboding. We always made sure to get down there early so that we could catch our double of triple bill and head back to the subway before nightfall. That was a tricky feat in the winter months!

I still have great deal of nostalgia even for that era of rock-bottom decay.

The movie "Sunrise" is playing on the Fox Movie Channel. According the New York Times review of the picture at the time, it opened at this theater on September 23, 1927. "Sunrise" won several awards at the first Academy Awards, including "Unique and Artistic Picture."

And still no word on the progress on the Ecko Unlimited store that has been in the works for this site since sometime in 2004! What on earth is going on here? It probably took less aggregate time to build all of the original theaters on the block from the ground up!

It seems the opening of the new Ecko Unlimited outlet here has been pushed back a bit. The huge sign that drapes the front of the Times Square Theater now reads "Coming Spring 2007." Walking by the theater, I could glimpse up into the space below the scaffolding behind the sign and above the sidewalk level construction shed and see that the facade has been blasted clean to a near-white color. I'm anxious to see how the interior is adapted to its new utility... but I guess that'll have to wait at least 5 or 6 months more.

Wonderful 1950s shot a marquee change. Ride Clear of Diablo AND ON THE SAME PROGRAM...The Tall Texan

http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/42ndStreetMemories/?action=view¤t=42TimesSquareAudieDan.jpg

jk

Here is a marquee photo of the Times Square.

Here's a shot I took the other night. It's nothing more than a giant billboard covering the entire facade, but this is how the old building has looked now for about 2 years or so.

Here's a 1982 shot of the marquee being changed:

Fight dirty to stay alive

I scanned this from a 1988 edition of the New York Daily News Sunday Magazine, which was devoted to the history of Times Square.

I am just posting this interesting photo here for now in the hopes that someone can tell me which Times Square theater the photo was taken at. Not sure if it's already been posted somewhere else on Cinema Treasures.

Bryan,

That picture was posted on the site for the New York, aka Globe, Big Apple theater. jk

Thanks for letting me know Jerry.

Ed, the movie CHEERLEADERS' WILD WEEKEND does indeed feature Leon Isaac Kennedy in a supporting role. I don't believe he's credited, but he is in the movie -- as a DJ at a radio station who communicates with the kidnappers, as I recall. Also, I've only seen this movie under the CHEERLEADERS' WILD WEEKEND title, and that includes all video, TV, and publicity materials; my guess is that the GIRL ROBBERY title was either a shooting title or for overseas distribution, where "cheerleaders" probably isn't as strong a selling point as it is in the U.S.

Thanks for following up on that old thread, Chris P. I stand corrected. And to the folks who ran Aquarius, please accept my humble apologies for having besmirched your good name(s)! Ha ha!

Has there been much progress on the store?
I may be in town for a convention in October, I would love to see it.

So here's a postcard I have of a Warner on Times Square. From what I can see in the posted pictures it looks similar. Which theater could it be? http://www.flickr.com/photos/pulp-o-rama/1331678214/in/set-72057594129975085/

Oddly enough, it's the Warner (a/k/a Strand) listed here: http://cinematreasures.org/theater/2975/

Roloff, in your comment that the roof top sign for "Doctor Zhivago" was showing in the theatre under it. Is wrong the roof top sign is on the Brill Building at 49th and Broadway. The Brill Building had a old newsreels theatre back in the early 1930's. "Doctor Zhivago" played at the Loew's Capital Theatre one block north of the sign. I work in the Brill Building.

Excellent, thanks for your quick responses, saps & William. Couldn't find a proper Warner in NY here on CinemaTreasures, now I see it's listed as Strand. Will fix info in Flickr.

Ecko is still on the way into this space. Construction is currently supposed to commence in 1st quarter of 2008, and store opening most likely for 1st to 2nd quarter of 2009. They are working hard to preserve a lot of the original interior elements while converting it over to retail use.

Sheesh... The construction shedding has been up around this theatre for a couple of years now. The store was supposed to open in 2006 and then was pushed back to Spring 2007 (both of these dates were advertised right on the huge billboard that has been erected over the upper facade of the building). Is it possible that construction hasn't even begun yet?!? I can only hope that the effort is well worth the wait!

Wow, they are really delayed on the construction of the store. Anyone know of any other interior photos?

The theatre is incorrectly described in Donald Crafton's supposedly "authorative" book, "The Talkies," a 639-page hardcover that's Volume 4 of Scribner's "History of the American Cinema." While reporting events in September, 1927, Grafton gives an address of 653 Eighth Avenue for the Times Square Theatre. He also claims that it was "Fox's newest theater," which is untrue. Fox Pictures had merely done a "four-wall" deal for the Times Square Theatre for the NYC premiere of "Sunrise," its first Movietone feature.

I must correct a typing error in my previous post. The word is "authoritative," not "authorative."

1946 shot of WILD BILL HICKOK RIDES & CANAL ZONE

http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/42ndStreetMemories/?action=view¤t=421946TimesSquareWildBill.jpg

Happy New Year. Jerry K

According to a brief piece which ran in yesterday's NY Post, the conversion of the Times Square Theater into a Marc Ecko store is still being delayed, due to ongoing negotiations with the Landmarks Commission. Am I the only one who thinks at some point Ecko might pull out altogether?

If negotiations are still "ongoing" with the Landmarks Commission after all this time, I suspect that work on the Marc Ecko store hasn't even started yet, so I wouldn't be surprised if the project comes to nothing. I confess to knowing next to nothing about "Marc Ecko," who he is or what he sells, but I think that NYC will get along very nicely without the store if it doesn't happen.

I knew something had to be up with this site. Hopefully, the snag has to do with the LPC standing up for the integrity of the theatre's interior. I agree with Warren's sentiments, but I wonder how long the 42nd Street Redevelopment Corp will allow the Times Square to remain vacant and boarded up before it starts convincing the City to relax any landmark restrictions so that the site can be made commercially viable. I know the Liberty Theatre's auditorium also remains in stasis down the block, but unlike the highly visible Times Square, it is hidden away on 41st Street.

If there was ever an opportunity for Disney to swoop in an rescue this theater, it is now. Like The El Capitan, they can open their pictures in digital and have a stage show. I know about the loading dock but they don't do full blown Broadway productions in LA so the load in would be minimal. Can you imagine a marquee like the El Capitan on 42nd street?

Isn't the Times Square theater the one they moved 20 - 30 feet to the right a bunch of years ago? I can almost swear seeing a front page article in the NY Times showing several shots of the building as they moved it over several hours / days. But I can't find any mention of this engineering feat anywhere - here or on the NY Times site or anywhere else.

Never mind - thee older pictures show it's always been next to the Lyric... and someone above mentioned the Empire moving. that's what I must be thinking of. But I still can't find much articles on NY Times site about the move : (

it was the empire that moved further down towards 8th ave (almost to the site of the Avco)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/73312411/

Thanks for the info. Check this out.

This page lists a story with pictures:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/t/theater/index.html?query=EMPIRE%20THEATER%20(NYC)&field=des&match=exact

But then follow the link and you just get the headline.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DE5DE1431F931A35750C0A96E958260

And searching for the headline in NY times site doesn't come up with that article! I'll try emailing someone at NY Times for an explaination.

thanks!

Woody, it was Anco, not Avco.

I have posted a color photo of the moving of the Empire/Laffmovie/Eltinge at the CT listing for the AMC Empire 25.

Sorry! I should have just posted this link to the photo. More details about the move can be found at the AMC Empire 25 listing:www.i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/empiremove.jpg

can anyone tell me what was 214 w 42nd st theatre now the hilton..

Here's a new direct link to my posting above of 3/13/08:
http://18.photobucket.com/albums/a18/Warrengwhiz/empiremove.jpg

Thanks, Warren. That picture of Abbott and Costello pulling the Empire Theatre always puts a smile on my face.

The Hilton Hotel uses the address of 234 (not 214) West 42nd Street. #234 was previously the address for the Liberty Theatre.

the reason i bring this up is young frankenstien is playing at

the hilton...tickets and broadway.com says 214w 42nd.

this was the lyric?

Wally, 214 is the New Amsterdam. The Lyric and the Apollo were combined to create the Ford/Hilton at 213.

ok what was the american airlines aka selwin ?

frankenstien at hilton..thanks

Yes, the Selwyn is now the American Airlines.

Any word on what is happening here? Are plans still in the works for Ecko to open a store in this space?

The year given for this photo is 1982.

photo from nov 2005 of the wrapped exterior
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/73312413/
and a nighttime shot from the same date
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/73316167/sizes/o/

Marc Ecko has officially pulled out of the retail project for this theater. A new search has begun for a new tenant. I guess the big question is: Exactly what is the state of this theater? Has none of it yet been restored? Is it at all possible that this could be utilized as a movie theater again? Why not have at least one of the old Times Square theaters remain as an actual film palace?

The Liberty is still cocooned as well across the street.

This site has a few photos.

The door was open on the 42nd. street last week. There was no seats and it still looked pretty green like the above picture. As a single screen movie theatre, no. As some other retail location, yes.

Why not, William? It has the same seating as the Ziegfeld, but probably feels more intimate because it has an overhanging balcony. I know this theater doesn't work for the legitimate stage because of a lack of fly space, dressing room areas, etc, but why not a movie theater?

If not a theater, then why not a night club? Back in the day, the best clubs were all in old theaters, Studio 54 (Gallo Opera House), Xenon's (Henry Miller), Palladium (Academy of Music), Club USA (Forum), The Saint (Loews Commodore), Bond's (International Casino). This is a long and storied history.

Make no mistake, my overriding preference and desire is for the Times Square to remain a theater. But barring that, I want it brought back into the public realm so that people can see it and admire it once again; either as a club or as retail space that respects the integrity of the space and its legacy.

The single screen theatre can not return a profit that will make any chain interested it. As CNN put it about the current money problems there is no "Dumb Money" available to invest. "Dumb Money" was when a company or companies had lots of money to invest in projects like movies and building projects.

I would like to see it return as a movie theatre, but with the way studios release films now and contracts for how many weeks it must play. Look at the old Embassy 2,3,4 sat there in Times Square. It was still set-up as a theatre, but the rent killed the deal as a movie theatre (1 million a year at one time). There are too many things working againist it returning as a movie theatre.

Yeah, that's the answer I was hoping for. It is totally capable of returning to use as a theater; it just doesn't appear to make financial sense. Even worse, the theater is in dire need of a top to bottom renovation. With the New Amsterdam, Disney took a shot because of the size of the theater, it was capable of housing the biggest Broadway productions, had incredible beauty even in decay and, of course, the city was offering generous tax breaks and loans at low interest.

No such luck with the Times Square. It needs lots of work, has no space to accommodate live theater and, in any event, would be too small. I do believe that a restored movie palace of this size could be successful hosting Premiere's (what better place than 42nd Street), and also hosting classic movie series in addition regular releases. Nonetheless, I don't see anyone stepping forward to invest in a project like this.

Does the 42nd Street development Corporation have any access to low cost loans? Would the city provide the requisite tax breaks? Does anyone know how much an actual restoration would cost? There are many questions. it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I thought that Broadway was in dire need of another theatre. Why couldn't this one be uded? If Broadway is doing as well as they claim, why doesn't the Shubert Organization or one of the other companys take over? It's worth a try.

Broadway is hurting badly during this recession and several theatres are dark.

???

As Al said several theatres are dark. Nederlander just spent money restoring some of the Nederlander Theatre for the opening of "Guys and Dolls" after "RENT" closed.

It would be great if they could find someone that would restore this theater and operate it as a theater. If it can work anywhere, Times Square should be the place...

Here is a 1930s photo showing the Times Square and the Apollo.

As I've mentioned above, this theater does not work for live theater. It is too small and the investment required too large. There is not enough backstage space either, in addition to not having enough customer seating. That is why I feel that the best use would be to revert to showing actual movies. I think it could do well, but again, the problem is who would front the renovation costs?

What makes you think it would do well with 38 Screens already on the same block?

I think it would do well because it would be different. As a single screen theater that seats a healthy 1,000 patrons it would operate as a unique experience; an opportunity to see a movie in a "palace" environment. Unlike The Ziegfeld which was constructed in 1969, The Times Square would be an opportnity to see a film on 42nd Street, the way generations past watched them in their heyday.

The new Times Square could host movie premieres (where better than on 42nd Street), limited release films, film festivals, oldies and act as a set for films/commericials. There is curently no theater dating before the Ziegfeld that shows films anymore.

I believe the market is there, but the money that it would take to get this theater to that point may be prohibitive. Nonetheless, it should be seriously looked into by the city.

Here is another shot of the Times Square and Apollo circa 1941.

Oh phantom one, the caption is incorrect. 42nd Street is in midtown, not in Harlem. You should inform your source.

Phantom? The caption doesn't concern me. I linked to the photo. Feel free to notify that website of it's mistake.

Luis,
Nice fantasy. We hear it so many times (Embassy 1,2,3.....Cape May's Beach......etc) but it isn't realistic. And, as Intro says "little or no lobby" this one hardly sounds like a movie palace to me!

I know it's a fantasy, but I still feel that it deserves to be looked at seriously now that the one entity who had committed to lease it has backed out. An alternate use needs to be found; one that respects the architectural elements of this theater.

Other ideas are welcome.

The Times Square was built as a "legit" playhouse and would hardly qualify as a "movie palace." When demoted to a sub-run cinema during the Depression, its chances of ever returning to "legit" were lessened by removal of the backstage area, which was converted into retail space.

Ah, thanks Warren. That makes sense. It still leaves us with an empty theater that, whether it qualifies as a true movie palace or not, it is still a better theater than the vast majority of those listed on CT. For me, and I am speaking only for myself, what makes a theater a palace is the architecture of the building and the environment that it created as you watched a film. Whether it was a Spanish Courtyard, an Italian Villa, an Asian Fantasy, these are the theaters that need to be preserved, not the post war multiplexes with shoe box screens. Luckily, The Times Square, does have a movie screening past and therefore we can discuss it here.

Directly across the street is yet another theater, The Liberty, which is cocooned behind the cacaphony of 42nd Street. The theater sits there awaiting a new use. So now there are two theaters on the illustrious 42nd Street that are just sitting there. A third, the DeMille, sits behind some cheesy retail at 47th and 7th Avenue. I think, these are the last remaining unrenovated theaters in midtown Manhattan.

Comments on the Demille (Embassy 1, 2, 3) theater page reported it had been gutted.
I also would prefer to see theaters as theaters. I just don't count on reopening closed theaters as single screen movie theaters.

I've heard conflicting comments about the DeMille so I'm not sure that the auditorium itself has been gutted.

Like you, I am not counting on any of these three to return as actual movie theaters,however, I would like to see them preserved for future generations. The Hudson Theater on W. 44th Street is beautifully restored though it operates as a confernece center/event space. I'm happy to see that it is still with us.

Even if it was restored as a club venue or something, something like how the Astor Plaza is a club/concert venue. You would think something like that would be profitable in Times Square.

I totally agree Bway. I'm not quite sure why the Liberty or the Times Square couldn't be turned into a nite club or relatively small performance venue like BB Kings. How could it NOT do well in Times Square? The answer, of course, always lies with the amount of money that it would take to get it to that point. That is the $64K question.

The exterior of the former Times Square Theatre, photographed last week, totally covered in advertising:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/theseos/NYC164.jpg

Just re-registering for alerts with this photo link: http://americanclassicimages.com/Default.aspx?tabid=141&txtSearch=Times+Square&catpageindex=2&ProductID=31197

Here's one more: http://americanclassicimages.com/Default.aspx?tabid=141&txtSearch=Times+Square&catpageindex=2&ProductID=31199

Thanks Warren.
Nice photos. Yeah, I have been very slowly making comments in some of the theaters I want the email alerts to come on, but have been doing it very very slowly as not to flood the site. I also trying to keep those comments to relevant comments, but it's hard sometimes, but there's no way to reactivate the emails coming on theaters I want to get the alerts on but to make a comment. I am slowly working up my list which very thankfully is still attached to our handle accounts, so at least I know what theaters I want to be attached to. if not for that I wouldn't know where to start!
Anyway, great photos.

This photo is currently being advertised on eBay. Not sure if it has been posted already.
http://tinyurl.com/c5498t

found this photo going through some old boxes, from 1992 (scanned so a bit grainey)
cant help wishing 42nd street still looked like this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woody1969/3508141592/

Sorry, but while it still had a glow of it's former life in a rough look. No way I would want to go back to the dump 42nd St was in the 80's and early 90's.

Wow, I agree with Bway! The 42nd Street at the time of that photo (and for many years prior) was one of absolute desolation, danger and despair. I clearly don't understand how anyone could want a return to that. I could only hope that Woody would be the first mugging victim. We'll see if he might change his mind then. I truly don't wish Woody harm but you must realize that when you say you want 42nd to get back it's grit you are saying that you want a return to the crime, murder and mayhem that made 42nd street the most dangerous street in the city for many years.

If that's what you're looking for, please move to Detroit. You'll get all the "grit" you desire.

Here is a 1952 photo from Life Magazine:
http://tinyurl.com/ntj5dj

Here is a 1984 photo:
http://tinyurl.com/ksau99

The Times Square Theater was still showing "Halloween" in 1984? There must have been alot of Jamie Lee Curtis fans in the neighborhood. LOL

It's too bad this couldnt be refurbished as a single screen theater again. I know the odds are against it. Does anyone know if the auditorium is wide enough to be refitted with a 70mm screen? It could be used for premieres as someone said; special bookings; film festivals etc. It has such a distinctive facade on the outside. Even a nightclub would be better than it just sitting there.

Here is a 1935 photo from the LAPL:
http://tinyurl.com/nkpfhh

That photo looks the same as the photo posted by Bryan on May 16, 2005 at 6:26pm.

I agree TJ. Unfortunately, the question is who will pay for the restoration. Personally, I would love to see at least one of the old palaces restored to to show classic films, premieres, festivals and occasional first run films in a Times Square setting. But would it be profitable? Who's going to put the money in? I love the Ziegfeld, but that theater is a totall different style the the theaters of the golden era. It's also (kind of) out of the way. I think a more centrally located restored palace in Times Square would get much more traffic than the Ziegfeld.

But if that's not possible, I also agree that a club is preferable to nothing. New York has not one remaining theater/night club remining from the glory days. Xenon/Miller Theater, Studio 54/Gallo Opera House, Palladium/Academy of Music, Club USA/Forum, Bond's Intl Casino/Interantional Casino, The Saint/Loews Commodore. The best clubs in New York history were virtually all in historic theaters. At least Studio 54 is still with us as a legit playhouse. Sadly, all of the rest are lost.

p.s. I also think the Liberty (directly across the Street from the Times Square theater) and cocooned within the Hilton Hotel could also be converted into a club if a restoration as a theater is not possible. Instead, it is just sitting in silence.

Yeah, but didnt the Liberty lose its entrance when the hotel was built? How would people get in there? That's another option, I guess if they could figure that out........

With landmark status, can't the original entrance of the Liberty be reclaimed, as well as lobby space and fire exits?

Can anyone tell me if this property is for sale/lease? If so, whom might the real estate agent/broker contact be?

The New 42nd Street Project would be a start.

http://www.new42.org/about_history_times.cfm