Cinema Treasures | Nokia Theatre Times Square

In his April 26th comment Vincent states: " It is stupefying when you see how arrogant these architects are and how much money they make and they come up with buildings without an ounce of imagination or style(see what they're doing to Paris.)" I think most here would like to know more of why such depredations are happening, and there is no better explanation than in the book: FROM BAUHAUS TO OUR HOUSE by Tom Wolfe, available at most libraries or via such as from this page: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/055338063X/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/103-6697248-3160663?v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews where you will also find my own review of this witty diatribe that skewers the pretensions of the modern day architecture as no one else can. For those unwilling to read even this short book, there are audio cassettes and downloads of it available there. Thank goodness our beloved theatres were mostly unaffected by the mad, headlong dash into modernism which indirectly has spelled the end of a number of theatres, especially in NYC, where property values are so inflated that any building more than 30 years old is considered passe, and something more profitable is eagerly sought by the money mad. This is the real reason so many theatres were demolished there: they couldn't bring in as much money, and the power of influential people to desire and then clear a lot to build their own money-makers is awesome if not disgusting. As God's word, the Bible, says: "The love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things." (1st Timothy 6:10) [many Bibles translate this as 'the root of all evil', but our English word 'evil' is much more limited than the broad scope of the original Koine Greek word here.]

posted by Jim Rankin on Apr 28, 2004 at 7:01am

"The sound at the Warner Cinerama and Rivoli was the old 6 Track magnetic..." That was only with the 70MM shows that they played.
And they used 5 discrete channels on stage and 1 surround channel. So the voices moved with the actors across the stage sound field. Which was far better than the later 70MM prints of the 80's and 90's. The Dolby 70MM formats had three stage channels plus subwoofer and mono or split surrounds. But still the 70MM prints had a better depth and power that the new digital formats lack.

posted by William on Apr 28, 2004 at 9:07am

I would love to know how Vincent saw Throughly Modern Millie at the Astor Plaza when the movie came out in 1967 and the theater didn't open until 1974.
I agree with other comments. Someone should buy the old Demille/Embassy234 and restore it.United Artists should have bought it when they lost the Criterion. It saddens me that all the theaters in the Times Square area are almost gone. Loews should reconsdier closing the State if they are really going to loose the Astor Plaza.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Apr 28, 2004 at 10:01am

Theres no way a theatre can survive though against the 50 screens on 42 St. The Demille/Embassy 2-3-4 could only survive as some sort of Cinemateque and that would cost a fortune.

posted by RobertR on Apr 28, 2004 at 10:04am

William I was talking about the old hard ticket movies from the 50's and 60's which I was able to see a few of in the 70's in revival at these theaters.
By the way I did avoid the revival of 2001 at the Astor Plaza because I knew that after seeing it at the Rivoli(a religious experience)the Plaza just wasn't going to cut it.

posted by Vincent on Apr 28, 2004 at 10:04am

Mike, Millie opened in '67 in NY at the great Criterion(see comments about it on this site and weep.)I saw a road show print of the film at the Astor Plaza at a one night only benefit in the 90's while across the street the Criterion still stood as the UA 15plex or something of the kind.

posted by Vincent on Apr 28, 2004 at 10:30am

Vincent, We had the same thing happen in Los Angeles around the same time. Every year the three large theatres in Beverly Hills played many of those old hard ticket films. Many of those original 70MM prints are now no longer available. They played in the Art-Deco palaces of the Warner Beverly Hills and the Fox Wilshire and the Beverly. Many of the bookings were double features present in 70MM 6-Track Stereo sound and a few 35mm 4-Track Stereo shows too.
In your above post I was just saying that. When those houses ran 70MM 6-Track Stereo shows, they were the Best of everything in presentations.

posted by William on Apr 28, 2004 at 11:49am

You know William that when I saw the old road show print of My Fair Lady back at the Cinerama in the late 70's the sound was magnificent and then when I saw the restoration of the film at the Ziegfeld in '93 the separation and the depth weren't even close. I guess those great soundtracks in 6 track magnetic as they were originally presented are lost to us forever.

posted by Vincent on Apr 28, 2004 at 1:28pm

How come all the great movie theaters in L.A. seem to remain and thrive, yet the great palaces in N.Y.C are gone and are dying a fast death.. Hopefully, the Ziegfeld will remain at least as a showcase for premieres... At last the marquee of the Paramount has been revived... The Empire 25 and 42nd St. E-walk are very, very pale comparisons to the great Time Square theaters of 50 years ago and before.. And, guess what... they should revive Radio City Music Hall... the greatest movie theater of all times!!!! Finis.

posted by StephenJohansen on Apr 28, 2004 at 1:48pm

My Fair Lady at The Cinerama was part of Broadway on Broadway. I talked about it on another post, maybe on the Dome site. I remember the print was a bit pink but the sound blew me away.

posted by RobertR on Apr 28, 2004 at 1:48pm

Your right on that 1993 restored "My Fair Lady", I saw it at the Cineplex Century Plaza Theatre in Los Angeles. It looked great on the big screen, but the sound was not there. I had seen it many times before in different projection formats. The only way was in 70MM 6-Track Stereo sound. Also to add, at that time you had projectionists that knew how to run film right. Back in the early 90's, when I was in Los Angeles. We use to run late show for friends at many of those theatres in Hollywood and Westwood, after close.
We ran "West Side Story", "The Great Race" in 70MM 6-Track Stereo and "Airport" in 35mm IB Tech & 4-Track Stereo at the Chinese Theatre (main room). Then across the street at the Paramount (now known as the El Capitan) we ran "Empire Strikes Back" and a few other titles. Over at the Hollywood Pacific Theatre (Pacific 1,2,3)we ran "Dirty Harry" in IB Tech, "Star Trek III & IV" and "The Enforcer". At the Dome we ran "Can't Stop the Music". At the Pantages we ran "Patton" in 70MM, At the GCC Avco in Westwood we ran "The Apartment". At the Odeon in Westwood we ran "The Wall" in 70MM, "The Enforcer", "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World". At the Beverly Connection 6 we ran "Where Eagle's Dare". This would go on during the summer time every year. This was just projectionists and friends, after the theatre closed for the day.
Not all of the palaces in Los Angeles are around today. Unless its located on Hollwood Blvd. or Westwood area. The ones that are located in the Downtown area of Los Angeles. Are all or almost closed to movies. One reason for Broadway is progress has not reached that street for night life. During the day its very busy along Broadway, but after dark it turns into a ghost town. During the 70's thru early 90's those 2000 seat theatres would be full on the weekends. But with rising costs and video and cable, people stayed home. So Metropolitan Theatres let the leases are just sold the properties. Some became churches or turned into stores.
By looking at New York's Times Square area. Those large theatres like "The Capital" & "Roxy" were just to big and they sat on a lot of property in mid-town New York. When these theatres were built, we only had live entertainment and the movies to deal with. Now you add in TV, 100's of channels of cable, internet. So theatre companies got rid of poor performing theatre locations. In Los Angeles, Mann Theatres and Pacific Theatres had some great single screen theatres. They got rid of them one by one, so they could make more money with a multi-plex.

posted by William on Apr 28, 2004 at 3:34pm

Vincent...I di see 2001 at the Astor in 2001. It was great..but I HEAR ya because I didn't have the Rivoli experience you did. I saw Apocalypse Now on opening day 8/15/79 at the Ziegfeld and I never saw or heard anything like it. I saw the re-release at the Astor in 2001 and while good...it just wasn't the same as the original 79 version at the Ziegfeld.. I thought there WAS a Doors tribute band behind the screen and that there was a helicopter in the theater. There was a theater by me in NJ called the Cinema 46 and in 1975 they played Tommy and The Hindenburg in 6 track. I still never heard anything like it since. Yes, it must be the great prints of yesteryear. Any closing date on the Astor??

posted by rhett on Apr 29, 2004 at 4:26am

Rhett..I saw Earthquake, Slapshot and Thats Entertainment 2 at the Cinema 46. A wonderful suburban theater. And did you ever go to the Stanley Warner on Route 4 before the slice and dice? Cinema Heaven!
By the way somebody told me that 2001 did not have an intermission at the Astor. So you did not the the effect of the great curtains slowly closing on the image of Hal listening in. Chilling beyond belief.

And William lately I've been getting leery of seeing any movie in a theater. The projectionists always seem top be getting something wrong whether its the film slightly out of focus(which is the worst because it seems I'm the only one who can tell)or not properly framing the image within the borders.

posted by Vincent on Apr 29, 2004 at 6:38am

Vincent
The theatre companies now have cut costs be having managers or staff run the films. This is only happening in theatres with less than 6 screens now in New York. During the Golden era of film, you had projectionists that were at the top of their professions. I hate going to theatres that have major problems. The last two times I was at the State Theatre in Times Square. The usher/projectionist started the wrong movie in the theatre. Being in this business and seeing the state of things of just going to the movies. It pretty sad to see.

posted by William on Apr 29, 2004 at 9:38am

Over the holidays I saw Bad Santa (hated it) in a multiplex and the film was started with then wrong lens, then the sound went out and the film broke 2x. When I was in the biz I would have given everyone a pass on the way out if they had not already demanded their money back.

posted by RobertR on Apr 29, 2004 at 10:12am

As to projection problems in multiplexes, actually finding an employee to complain to when the sound goes out or the picture goes out of focus is a problem in itself. The teenaged staff is generally chatting in the lobby and stares at you bewildered that someone is actually complaining to them. It took repeated complaints by the audience during one screening at a Cineplex facility for the framing of a film to finally be fixed. These are not the days of Cinema Paradiso anymore. We are supposed to pay $10+ per screening for this? No wonder DVD's are so popular....and no annoying commercials either.

posted by edward on Apr 29, 2004 at 11:04am

You would think for the prices they charge we would not have to sit through 10+ minutes of commercials. It is really annoying.

posted by YankeeMike on Apr 29, 2004 at 11:10am

Until Radio City Music Hall resurrects itself as a showcase for motion pictures(which it never will), I will delight in watching DVDs at home without all the chatter and other annoyances. The only civilized motion picture theater left in NYC is the Paris.. Has anyone ever been there? The Beekman is okay, and is landmarked so I guess will be there for ever. I give the Ziegfeld another few years and then gonzo!! Thank God for cable T.V., TCM, AMC and more for ever the wonderful new DVDs that are coming out. Perhaps in my next life the great motion picture palaces will return.. FINIS!

posted by StephenJohansen on Apr 29, 2004 at 11:10am

AMC!, maybe two years ago. Not now. The Fox movie channel is OK.

posted by YankeeMike on Apr 29, 2004 at 11:12am

AMC has turned into a nightmare worse then other commercial laden stations.

posted by RobertR on Apr 29, 2004 at 12:49pm

Nothing will ever replace the movie palaces or duluxe houses of the past. I love to go to the movies and for good or bad we will have to live with the era of the megaplex. Not all megaplex's are created equal. The AMC and Harkin theates megaplex's have big curved screens and good presentaions in Arizona. Since Arizona is growing rapidly they have built auditoriums that are quite large. I always ask for the largest auditorium when a movie is playing. New features could be playing on 4 screens. The Pacific Grove is wildly popular in LA because it pays homage to the old Hollywood and it a little more upscale than the average megaplex.The large exhibitors like AMC Regal,Loews etc don't know how to run a single screen today. Only your regional chains such as Harkins, Pacific, Mann and Landmark care about the historic theatres they still have in there trust. It always comes down to the bottom line.Since large movies open on 2000-4000 screens this has made single screens no longer viable with a few exceptions. The day the exclusive run for a motion picture ended so did the need for single screens. I just wish more creative ways could have saved many single screens by adding on additional screens like at the ArcLight in LA where they added 14 screems to the Cinerama Dome.bruce

posted by brucec on Apr 29, 2004 at 2:36pm

I was talking about the cable station American Movie Classics :) I should have been clearer.

posted by RobertR on Apr 29, 2004 at 2:41pm

Just think these were equipped to run 70MM in the Times Square area:
Astor Plaza, Cinerama (Warner), Capital, Criterion, DeMille, State 1 & 2, Rivoli, National, Ziegfeld, Radio City Music Hall, Palace.

In a few of the above posts people have talked about seeing "2001" at the Capital (Loew's Cinerama), Rivoli and Astor Plaza. The film "2001" was shot in SuperPanavision 70, which is a spherical format 70MM. Which would play better on a flat screen. While if you saw the film at or in a Cinerama Theatre during roadshow engagements. You would have seen a Cinerama rectified print. The rectification gradually applies a squeeze towards the outside edges that would be naturally removed by the image being projected againist the oblique curved sides of the Cinerama screen. Those rectified prints played at Cinerama Theatres only. The rectified print would also deliver a larger aspect ratio to the screen. You can still play a spherical (flat)print on a curved screen, but the image has a little distortion dealing with the curved screen.

posted by William on Apr 29, 2004 at 3:20pm

Well it premeired in NY on a curved screen at the Capitol and that's how I saw it at the Rivoli which was not a Cinerama house. I noticed no distortion. In fact seeing it on a curved screen gives 70mm a visual depth that a flat screen doesn't have. 35mm anamorphic will I believe be pretty much the same on flat or curved. I saw Fiddler on the Rivoli's curved screen in '71 and it looked flat as a pancake.

posted by Vincent on Apr 29, 2004 at 3:34pm

It not a true distortion of the picture but the way it is cropped on the screen. Having worked projection at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. We ran many 70MM prints there, many of the later prints. You would trouble with titles on the sides, very light scenes washing out the other side of the screen. The rectified prints gave a larger aspect ratio, almost like the Ultra-Panavision prints. Seeing one of those Ultra-Panavision films on the proper screen, you can get a aspect ratio of 2.76:1 , while both used the same 2.2:1 camera and projector aperture ratio. The Ultra-Panavision photography was done with anamorphic lenses that added a modest 1.25:1 squeeze. Which is basically what the lab did to make a Cinerama rectified print. In a well equipped theatre like the Rivoli, you could play 70MM print like "2001" and not have any problems. During the mid 80's MGM had a print of "2001" playing in Los Angeles at the GCC Avco Theatres in 70MM. I went to see it, but they only have a flat screen the experience was not the same. Like you and many others have said about the Rivoli Theatre. How great the a movie going experience was at that theatre. Out of all the theatres in the area (not counting the Music Hall). I think the Rivoli would have had the best chance in surviving. But UA got rid of her in favor of the Criterion plex. Since the Rivoli was a free standing building it had no chance. My office is across the street from the site of the Rivoli, boy it would've been great to leave the office and see a movie in a real theatre..

posted by William on Apr 29, 2004 at 4:17pm

Vincent,. It's great you've been to the NJ theaters I know. First- 2201 at the Astor a few years back? As I remember , it DID have an intermission. But I saw it the first weekend. There was paractically no advertising for it at all and it bombed, so I assume they just cut the intermission for later shows. I agree with all comments on the state of theater management these days. They're all run by high school kids and managers who know squat. You ever try to tell one the difference between anamorphic and flat when they frame it wrong. Don't you want to smack them when they say "That's how the film was sent to us". Everyone on this site has forgotton more about the proper way to run a theater than these bozos will EVER know. Imagine if we all bonded and ran our own theater just running classic movies...our way... WOW...unfortunately I think we'd all be like the characters in Reservoir Dogs. Hey, it's a thought. My compliments to all the passion from you movielovers, I thought I was alone. The morons who run these theaters today have no love for movies, and they're all stupid.

Vincent, I saw Earthquake at Cinema 46 in Sensurround too and many others for over 25 years. First film there for me , :Live and Let Die". Over the years, it went downhill, run by highschoolers etc. And the last film I saw there, "Empire Strikes Back" in 1997, 1 week before the theater closed in April 97. I went there when they were tearing it down, I was bummed. Stanley Warner...what can I say..first film there...Star Wars in 77, what an experience, I also saw the re-release on the same screen. I was there this past weekend for Man on Fire. I love the big theater. I would have loved to see it as a single screen theater, I only remember it as a triplex to start,,, but the big theater is still the same for me. There's talk of razing that too for a bigger multiplex.

Now my memories are coming from, The Lafayette in Suffern NY. A true classic 1 screen theater, they love movies there and they show classics every week. Go to ...bigscreenclassics.com....you'll see.

I assume the Astor will go downhill fast now that it's gonna close. Bad projection, sound etc. Oh the humanity!!! I miss the 70's. hey Vincent..remember the Totowa Cinema...with the big sheetrock 3 dimensional screen??? That was a theater...first twinned...now gone. RIP 1992.

posted by rhett on Apr 30, 2004 at 4:01am

The Totowa is gone?!! How great the Lafeyette is still with us. Remember Breaking Away and other films from that beautiful gem. The Warner was great even after they cut off the balcony because the main auditorium was intact. Since then it was made smaller. My sister worked there during the time of Tron. She knew an old usher there from the 60's and he told her the place back then was the height of class and elegance. It was huge and my parents told me that when they went to see the Graduate there they had to sit apart the place was so packed. As a single theater I as well saw a number of films there in the early 70's and it was something.
Have you been to the Loew's Jersey?

posted by Vincent on Apr 30, 2004 at 6:31am

William as I've said before concerning the Rivoli the only way a great building like that comes down is because the Landmarks commission is in bed with the developers. I can't even walk in Times Square any more. If I have to go there for any reason I am in and out. I feel I'm in an overbuilt monstrous shopping mall. Same for Rockefeller Center. And these used to be my favorite places in NY. Even in the dark days of the 70's they were as aweinspiring to me as the Acropolis or the Taj Mahal. Our American wonders.

posted by Vincent on Apr 30, 2004 at 8:45am

For all the theatres that California lost look at how many were luckily saved. We dont have a single Broadway house left showing movies. Art theatres like the Plaza, Bleeker and 8th St Playhouse are all memories. The Suttons days are numbered and how much longer will have Loews Tower East? New York is destined to have the same suburban multi-plexes as Long Island.

posted by RobertR on Apr 30, 2004 at 8:55am

Vincent..I've never been to the Warner...I'd love to see picture from these old Nj theaters...don't know where to find them...especially from passaic County...I'm dying to get to Loews Jersey City..I was gonna go last week to see Angels/Dirty faces and West Side Story..the problem is they start the films too late and they're spaced apart...I'd have to wait around till the next one...
I prefer earlier shows like the lafayette shows...plus Jersey City, not the best area...I was in Times Square yesterday, and was very depressed since all of these discussions about the heyday. I agree, that it's like a big shopping center. I miss the old theaters. I never went to the Criterion, I just remember walking by it alot when the cut it up to like what, 8 theaters? I saw Raging Bull at the Cinerama in 80, wish I could have seen more there, it's now an arcade? The Astor is showing The Punisher for God's sake...not the final movie I'd like to see there, maybe I'll just let it lie with 2001...on a good note, I went to Film Forum to see a pristine print of High Noon, it was awesome.

Hey Vincent, remember theaters like the Claridge in Montclair? now it's chopped up into 6 small uncomfortable theaters,...as is The Allwood in Clifton and The Hawthorne and Hyway...all cut up...They were great huge single screen theaters back in the day...and what's with the Ziefeld, I hear it's not open all the time...The problem with these theaters are they're not being used right,,,,they're run by suits with no feel for the experience and love of a great movie..

posted by rhett on May 1, 2004 at 6:44am

The industry is now ruled by the distributors, whose only interest in theatres is for the revenues that can be derived for them. Exhibitors are just their slaves, and have to abide by the rules set by the distributors or shut down. This is a situation that will only get worse because distributors now derive more income from pay TV and home video than they do from theatres.

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 1, 2004 at 7:36am

What do you suppose the standards were when the Astor Plaza and the 42nd Street E-Walk Theatre began screening new releases day-and-date a couple of years ago? Do you think that was more distributor-driven (i.e., seeing the money potential to make an additional cash hit with a 2-3 week run at the Astor Plaza) or something Loews was more pro-active with, considering: a) how difficult it was to book first-run films on the day of their release into the Astor Plaza, what with the 38 competing screens two blocks away; or, b) the sinkhole - arguably on the level of what the Loews State has been since the E-Walk Theatre opened in November of '99 - a mostly move-over, 1440-seat single screen house would be, imploring them to pursue the current booking policy for the theatre?

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on May 1, 2004 at 8:54am

Rhett, Of course I remember the Claridge and their was also the Bellevue which was another elegant north Jersey road show house which I now believe is a triplex. There was the Lee in Fort Lee which was a beautiful single screen house torn down during the '70s.
Also there were great theaters in Asbury Park and Atlantic city. The only one I know that is standing is the Lyric in Asbury which was a road show house that is now a porno movie theater(As a child I remember My Fair Lady was playing there and next door at the St James was the Sound of Music. And behind the St James was the Mayfair with Disney's Cinderella. I think '65 was another civilization.)
Unfortunately I didn't go to most of these theaters as single screen houses as I was too young. In the '70s when I could go at that point they were being torn down, cut up or only showing exploitation films so if a theater was intact I didn't go often. Now I wish I had.

posted by Vincent on May 3, 2004 at 6:18am

Rhett & Vincent: Thanks for talking about the great old single-screen theaters in North Jersey. I believe Cinema 46 had 70mm projection for PATTON and HELLO, DOLLY in 1970. Now it's the site of a CompUSA store. The Bellevue in Upper Montclair was definitely 70mm - I saw THE SHOES OF THE FISHERMAN there in 1968 on a class trip and it was awesome. Nobody ever talks about that movie anymore, but to see and hear it like that was unforgettable. And the Clairidge, of course, had 3-strip Cinerama. I saw HOW THE WEST WAS WON there in 1963 - enough said. I go there once in a while to see current movies but it's tragic to see it now, remembering what it once was.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 3, 2004 at 11:55am

Vincent: The Paramount Theater in Asbury Park is still intact. It's opposite Convention Hall, on the other side of the arcade. My cousin and I were walking through the arcade last summer and the side doors to the Paramount were open for some reason. It still looks great, and my cousin had a flashback to 1960 when he saw PSYCHO there.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 3, 2004 at 12:01pm

Bill...thats great that the Paramount is still intact. When I was a kid I remember it playing Carnal Knowlege. I saw both Patton and Hello Dolly at the Fox in Hackensack. Didn't know that they played Bergen County in 70mm. Saw Fisherman with my family at a NY State theater across the border. One of those single screen strip mall theaters which were actually very nice and when compared with multiplexes now seem luxurious. Liked the movie very much and always wondered if my 11 year old critical faculties were correct. I don't think it was very successful. Might in fact have been one of those films that killed the roadshow and with it the theaters that exhibited them.
I can't imagine Asbury Park now. As a little boy I remember it being quite beautiful.

posted by Vincent on May 3, 2004 at 12:16pm

As of June 1968 the following theatres in New Jersey were equipped with Norelco 70/35 mm projection equipment.

Asbury Park---St. James Theatre
Atlantic City--Center Theatre
Camden County(Pennsaken)--Eric Theatre
Lawnside--White Horse Pike Drive-In
Paramus--Century's Paramus Theatre
Patterson--Fabian Theatre
Totowa---Cinema 46
Upper Montclair--Bellevue Theatre
West Trenton--Someric Theatre
Woodbridge---Fox Cinema

posted by William on May 3, 2004 at 12:40pm

William how about the Claridge after Cinerama, the Lyric in Asbury Park and the Virginia in Atlantic City all major roadshow houses or did they play their films on hardticket in 35mm?

posted by Vincent on May 3, 2004 at 1:23pm

Vincent
I will check on the other houses. Because Century Projectors were used in a lot of the single strip Cinerama houses. Three-Strip Cinerama used specially equipped Century Projectors. The Single -Strip Cinerama houses (Super Cinerama) used Century JJ model projectors. That was what were in the Capital Theatre and the Warner Cinerama in Times Square. The Norelco equipped theatres in Times Square were:

Rivoli Theatre
Criterion Theatre
Loew's State Theatre
Palace Theatre
National Theatre
and the Strand Theatre got them from the State when it was coming down or the National.

The Astor Plaza Theatre has Century JJ model 35/70MM machines.

posted by William on May 3, 2004 at 1:58pm

There were some films that were Roadshown in only 35mm, but most of the time it was 70MM. But there were only a few 70MM prints available per city or area. Like Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and others. But these were the main markets.

posted by William on May 3, 2004 at 2:13pm

I hope Loews Jersey is a major success maybe it might shame NYC to save the great remaining houses such as Loews Kings, Loews Paradise. It seems only LA has great single screen theatres still showing first run movies because they are industry houses.I think the megaplex should have devoted at least one screen as there flagship with posh surroundings, curtains in front of the screen, great screen and sound presentations. When a studio spends up to 200 Million on a film such "Troy" it needs to be seen on a huge screen, large auditorium or why bother to go.I remember I went to the megaplex to see a Bond film and they had it in a small auditorium and small screen so I demanded my money back and got it. People who pay $8-$10 per film should demand top theatre presentation and not put up with substandard conditions.brucec

posted by brucec on May 3, 2004 at 7:26pm

Vincent mentioned the Lee Theater in Fort Lee. I saw SPARTACUS there in 1961. As of a couple of years ago, the land where that theater stood is still an empty lot. If I were a rich man, I'd rebuild the Lee exactly as it used to be.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 4, 2004 at 4:19am

Bill..I envy you, seeing How West was Won at Clairidge in Cinerama. I would have loved to have seen that. The theater is now a dump. I saw Rocky 3 in 70mm at the Bellevue in 82...the last movie I saw there as a single screen. Even the DVD version doesn't have the widescreen or sound that the bellevue had in 82. I wonder whatever happened to that print?
The Bellevue was one of the most awesome theaters. That's another one that has but cut to 4 screens.Everything is multiplexed. Young people today will have no feel for what a movie experience in a great theater should be....all we have our the memories. They could cut the Astor up into a 10plex if they wanted to. I'd rather see them bring it down than do that.

posted by rhett on May 4, 2004 at 4:58am

Does anyone know when this theatre is closing?

posted by YankeeMike on May 4, 2004 at 5:21am

Rhett: the most amazing, mind-blowing soundtrack I've ever heard in a theater was at the Bellevue. They were showing Ken Russell's Altered States in 70mm and something called MagnaSound (I think that's what it was called anyway - this was in 1981). Like I said, there was never anything else like it before or since. I saw the same movie at the Astor Plaza in 70mm but the sound wasn't the same knockout experience it was at the Bellevue.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 4, 2004 at 8:45am

Bill is correct - the Bellevue's presentation of Altered States was incredible. The process was called "MegaSound" and was also used on Outland (which was very nice at the Cinema 46).

posted by PeterApruzzese on May 4, 2004 at 8:53am

Thanks, Pete, for remembering it was MegaSound, and thanks to Rhett and Vincent and everybody on here for all these great movie memories about things I haven't thought about for many years. I tell ya, this website functions as a sort of time machine for me.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 4, 2004 at 9:28am

Warner Bros. used Megasound on four 70MM releases during that time.

Altered States
Outland
Superman II
Wolfen (only in select engagements)

posted by William on May 4, 2004 at 9:29am

Bill and Pete: It seems we have the same experiences.. I saw Altered States at the Bellevue in 81 and was knocked out of my seat and I saw Outland at Cinema 46, it was something. At the same time, Poltergeist played at Cinema 46 and was the same knockout experience.
The first big stereophonic sound film I ever saw was Tommy in 75 at Cinema 46, never heard anything like it. And the Hindenburg was tremendous. They played with 4 track stereo also with The Car in 77.

Now it seems that 6 track is taken for granted as all movies are in stereo so it has to be a real awesome experience to be appreciated. I will tell you one that was great as of recent.. and that was the 40th Anniversary of Lawrence of Arabia last year at the Ziegfeld.

posted by rhett on May 5, 2004 at 4:17am

William and Vincent
I spent 13 years during the summer in Atlantic City. Yes, the Virgina was the big 70mm, reserved seat house. The last film to play there in 1973 the last year the theater operated was the re release of The Sound Of Music. In 1969 they showed Krakatova East of Java in 70 mm not cinerama. I think that was the last cinerama film made. In 1970 theyshowed Hello Dolly in 35mm.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on May 5, 2004 at 4:35am

Krakatoa, East of Java was the last film given a official Cinerama release. But the last three films that Cinerama Releasing with ABC were "Custer of the West", "Krakatoa, East of Java" and "Song of Norway". "Song of Norway" played some Cinerama houses but was not a official Cinerama Roadshow release.

rhett
That print of "Rocky 3", by this time has been destroyed by the studio. Not all studios keep a lot of 70MM prints anymore. There might be 1 or 2 (East/West coast), but since not many theatres play that format anymore. The studio destroys the extra prints, instead of pay storage on them.

posted by William on May 5, 2004 at 7:45am

But William Song of Norway played roadshow at the Warner Cinerama in '70 in 70 mm. Was that the only place it played roadshow or are you saying that it was not in Cinerama. And could you tell what the difference of the print would be for Krakatoa and Norway? I think Norway was Ultra or Super Panavision. Do any of these prints exist?

Mike I'm surprised that the Virginia showed Dolly in 35mm. Maybe at that point Fox felt that deluxe roadshow entertainment was dead and thought that a Todd AO print was a waste of money. I guess then when I saw it at the St James in Asbury park that summer it was also 35mm.

posted by Vincent on May 5, 2004 at 8:25am

Since a lot of technical information seems to be discussed on this board, were any films other than Earthquake (1974) presented in Sensurround sound?

posted by edward on May 5, 2004 at 9:01am

They blew up a few episodes of Battle Star Galactica from TV and added Sensurround, also Rollercoaster.

posted by RobertR on May 5, 2004 at 9:07am

This listing seems to have developed into a platform for discussing everything BUT the Astor Plaza Theatre. My aged fingers are getting swollen from having to scroll through item after item that should be posted under "MISCELLANEOUS" or whatever.

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 5, 2004 at 9:19am

Part of discussing theatres is not just the architectural styles or how big or were it was located. It should inclue some of the history of what was shown there and presentations that are long gone in this day and age of movie going. The things that made these theatres special.

posted by William on May 5, 2004 at 9:55am

Add "Midway" to the Sensurround list of features.

posted by William on May 5, 2004 at 9:57am

Saw that at the Fox in Hackensack NJ in Sensurround!

posted by Vincent on May 5, 2004 at 10:48am

Original Post: "There was a theater by me in NJ called the Cinema 46 and in 1975 they played Tommy and The Hindenburg in 6 track. I still never heard anything like it since."

posted by rhett on Apr 29, 2004 at 7:26am

Response: Recently, I've been doing microfilm research on the New York City/New Jersey areas. My focus has been on 70mm presentation, mainly in Manhattan.

It seems that the Cinema 46 was a premiere house for certain major films, with the Bellevue being the other one. There were 70mm runs of "The Sound Of Music" and "Logan's Run" at the Bellevue, for instance. However, I've found no record of "Tommy" or "The Hindenburg" having played in 70mm in 1975--especially "The Hindenburg." "Tommy" was re-released in 70mm in 1977.

During my research with Michael Coate, we haven't found proof that "The Hindenburg" played in 70mm. Do you have access to an ad in the New Jersey newspapers of 1975 that might show what format these two films played in? Thanks.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 8, 2004 at 10:27pm

The Astor Plaza is currently showing "Van Helsing" simultaneously with four screens at the Loew's 42nd Street E Walk, which is only three blocks away. If that's not Times Square overkill, I don't know what is.

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 9, 2004 at 7:18am

Bill, I have an extensive collection from microfilm research also as I am collecting all of my movie memories (well not all, it's impossible) I mostly go to the Montclair State University college library.

Re: Tommy and the Hindenburg. I can't say they were 70MM (I didn't either) I was commenting on the sound. I don't recall 70MM presentations from the Cinema 46, but in 1975 those 2 films (Tommy being the first) introduced me to a whole new level of moviegoing...being a stereophinic track.They had 4 track stereo presentations or possibly 6 track.In my research there's really no advertising of the audio. The opening of Tommy is still something I remember today.

The first 70MM film I saw was Star Wars at Stanley Warner paramus.

posted by rhett on May 9, 2004 at 7:21am

Re: Astor Plaza...what was the first showing at the theater? what was the date?? They did show premieres. I remember in 87, I believe The Untouchables had the premeire there.

posted by rhett on May 9, 2004 at 7:24am

rhett. the premiere (excuse the spelling if it's incorrect) the premiere of the Damon Wayons movie "MO MOney" was there and I don't know of hand but there were many more there.

posted by savage on May 9, 2004 at 9:13am

Vincent
I think that the Virgina played Hello Dolly in 35mm becuase by the time it hit Atlantic City on June 24, 1970, it was not doing well in the rest of the country becuase of the bad reviews. Also, that summer the other movies houses along with the Virgina showed Dolly as a regular continuous performance show. The show played in Phila(center city) in 70 mm at the now long gone Randolph (which is where I saw it on their cinerama screen) and in NYC at the Rivoli also in 70 mm.
Does anyone else feel like I do about filme not being made in the 70mm format? I hate it. I think the last movie I remeber advertised in 70mm was Titanic at the Astor Plaza.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on May 9, 2004 at 11:01am

But Mike that was a blow-up. Maybe somebody could provide a list of the films in the last 35 years that were actually filmed in 70mm.

posted by Vincent on May 10, 2004 at 6:08am

The Astor Plaza was meant to open as the Reade around December 1971 -the title board for Such Good Friends was on the marquee...Walter Reade lost the lease I believe either to cash flow issues or problems with the union and Loews took the space over opening it I believe with Barbra Streisand in For Pete's Sake, following it up with Death Wish in mid 1973...I can't tell you what happened in between and would be happy to be filled in

posted by SethLewis on May 10, 2004 at 6:43am

These are a few of the last true 70MM photographed feature films.

"Airport" 1970
"Ryan's Daughter" 1970
"The Last Valley" 1971
"Tron" 1982 (live action only)
"Brainstorm" 1983
"Far and Away" 1992
"Baraka" 1993
"Hamlet" 1997

Everything else that has been released has been a blow-up from 35mm photography.

posted by William on May 10, 2004 at 8:46am

Rhett:

"Re: Tommy and the Hindenburg. I can't say they were 70MM (I didn't either) I was commenting on the sound."

My response isn't meant to be sarcastic, but a movie playing in "6-Track" in the mid-'70s would imply it being from a 70mm print.

"I don't recall 70MM presentations from the Cinema 46, but in 1975 those 2 films (Tommy being the first) introduced me to a whole new level of moviegoing...being a stereophinic track.They had 4 track stereo presentations or possibly 6 track."

"Tommy" was more than likely presented in Quintaphonic Sound a 4-channel stereo mix. A buddy of mine recalls seeing it at the old Orange (CA) Cinedome and being blown away by the soundtrack.

"The Hindenburg" is one of those mystery titles in regards to its soundtrack. I don't remember seeing any indications of "4-track" stereo presentations in the papers of the day...at least not yet. I spoke to director Robert Wise a few years ago, and he said there were no 70mm prints made of the film. That of course doesn't mean that possibly 35mm mag stereo prints were made.

"In my research there's really no advertising of the audio."

The 1970s was a strange time for presentation notations in the newspapers, as you've seen. Every once in a while, you could see an indication of what a film was being played in, i.e. "4-track" or _"4-channel" 35mm presentations. Most of the time, presentation was left to 70mm or Universal's Sensurround (for a short time).

The first 70mm presentation that I can remember was "Star Wars" at the Orange Plitt City Center Theater. I saw "Gone With The Wind" in the mid-'70s when there were a number of 70mm re-releases of that film, but I don't recall when I exactly saw it or which theater. I was pretty young at the time.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 10, 2004 at 10:25am

The stereo prints of "Hindenburg" were presented in 4-Track Magnetic stereo. The Los Angeles engagement at the Bruin Theatre was 4-track Mag. "Tommy" is a harder one research sound formats. Because the first run engagements were presented in Quintaphonic Sound which used a 4-track Mag print. But you need a special decoder for the playback of the full soundtrack. The Los Angeles engagement was at the Fox Wilshire Theatre in Beverly Hills in Quintaphonic Sound and also Orange Cinedome in Orange, Ca.. They only made a limited number of decoders for that format. "Tommy" was released in 70mm (blow-up) 6-Track Stereo Sound, a year or two after the first run.

posted by William on May 10, 2004 at 11:00am

Its to bad the movie palaces in Times Square didn't get the attention that the Astor Plaza is receiving. I heard very little when the Rivoli,Warner and State were torn down in the 1980's. By the way Loews State was very successful right to the end. The best collection of movie palaces is on the the other broadway in LA. There are about 12 historic movie palaces still standing and many are in pretty good condition. The city of LA has designated this area as an historic theatre district. Here are the following historic theatres on Broadway in LA
1. United Artists
2. Orpheum
3 Rialto
4. Loews State
5. Globe
6. Los Angeles
7. Palace
8. Roxie
9. Arcade
10.Cameo
11.Million Dollar
12.Tower
Note: The Warner Downtown,Mayan,and Belasco are a few blocks away

Loews State was the most successful movie palace on the street and the Los Angeles the most beautiful. The Orpheum is in the best shape having finished a 4 million renovation a couple of years ago. The least successful movie palace on the street was the United Artists. The largest Downtown movie palace the Paramount was torn down in the 1960's but wasn't located on Broadway. It was the hispanic population that kept these theatres humming during 1960's thru the 1980's. I think a major focus should be in preserving this entertainment district that has survived all these years.brucec

posted by brucec on May 10, 2004 at 2:16pm

A lot people are trying to preserve this entertainment district. But progress has been slow in getting a real night life into the Broadway area. The Staples Center has brought sports and people into the area. But no one stays late or goes over to Broadway really late at night. It looks like people that stay in the downtown area stay just west of Pershing Square, which is two blocks from Broadway. Metropolitan Theatres ran all of those theatres, till the profits were gone. Its hard to keep large single screen theatres operating with only 10-12 people for each show. When I worked in Los Angeles, I saw all those houses full every weekend and busy during the week.
But with cable/video/DVD's and parking in the area, just costs to
much.
In Times Square people are here to sight see and eat and go to a show. The night life in Los Angeles is mainly in Hollywood, Sunset Blvd (West Hollywood), Westwood and Santa Monica areas. People have gone west for their entertainment. But when they program those Best
Remaining Seats series into the palaces of downtown they sell out
every series each year. Another problem is that these theatres are no longer owned by the chains that operated them. That was the case with some Fox West Coast operated theatres. The theatre was owned by
the chain but was later sold and the chain leased the theatre during
the 50's & 60's at long term and low leases. So maybe that was the
case with a lot of those single Times Square theatres. The property
owners saw all those extra zero's on those checks. More than he
could make with a leased theatre. In those years it was easier to
get permits to raze a building. In Westwood, California, two of Mann
Theatre's jewels the Village and Bruin theatres are not owned by the
chain. They are leased to them by the Skouras Family.

posted by William on May 10, 2004 at 4:07pm

Bill.....Quinaphonic-Quadraphonic...It was 1975 and yes, they didn't really advertise the audio so you can imagine the surprise to a 14 year old when these films blasted off the screen. (Tommy and Hindenburg)

Re: research for 70MM in NJ....Cinema 46 did play 1941, in December 1979 in 70MM 6 track. It says in the ads which is why I'm one of the few who still likes the flick. It was a good experience watching it. Cinema 46 did advertise 4 track stereo in the later 70's ....Macarthur....The Car.... other 70MM at the Cinema 46...in the early 80's...Superman II, Outland, Poltergeist...I saw them all there...

If you ever get to Montclair State University, they have a good microfilm set.

Van Helsing is at the Astor....while at a bunch of other theaters....they probably didn't have too big a house....it's going under soon?? anyone have a date yet?? will it last through the end of the Summer or year??

posted by rhett on May 11, 2004 at 4:05am

In response to leases in Times Square. The Rivoli was owned by United Artists and sold the property for about 17 Million which they used to build a multiplex in NY/New Jersey area which probably has itself closed due to competition from the megaplex. Times Square leases were always expensive or they were owned by the the theatre companies. The land value in midtown is a little different than the land value on Broadway in Downtown LA. The movie palaces downtown are around due to lack in investment and development along broadway, It wasn't by grand design. In fact LA focused on investing on the new downtown around Bunker Hill which saved all the buildings around Broadway. I think the time is coming where the city will start focusing on Broadway and the Spring St area which is the heart of the old downtown. I think this area should become a special investment zone and major credits given to restoring the major buildings in this area. I think LA should not build any new theatres and use the historic ones they have left. I realize that Times Square had economic realities but why didn't they give air rights above the historic movie palaces that were left like they did with the historic broadway theatres in the area. Its amazing to me not one of the major movie palaces are left in Times Square. I guess because Radio City was saved the city thought that was enough. The Astor Plaza is getting all this print because its the last large single screen left in Times Sqaure. It wasn't the best of the theatres Times Square once had but its the only one that is left.brucec

posted by brucec on May 11, 2004 at 10:12am

The Hollywood Theatre, a Thomas Lamb jewel on 51st Street just off Broadway, still stands and is well-preserved, despite current use as a church. It could easily be turned into a movie house again, though it would more likely be taken over for stage plays. It presented them for decades under the name of the Mark Hellinger Theatre.

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 11, 2004 at 10:24am

The Warner Hollywood Theatre would be the best theatre to return to movies, but as Warren said its currently a church. The Times Square Church bought the building awhile back for around 14 million. The theatre is well maintained and treated well. I live next door to it, so I see it every day. As the Biltmore Theatre got restored last year. The only two theatres just sitting in the area are the Mayfair and the rotting Times Square Theatre on 42nd. They recently put up a construction barrier, so you can't see the inside rotting away.

posted by William on May 11, 2004 at 10:57am

Nice that a church can lay out $14 million.

posted by RobertR on May 11, 2004 at 11:31am

Yes the Warner Hollywood (Mark Hellinger) (Times Square Church) was built as a Movie Palace but most of its life it was a top rank Broadway Musical Stage Theatre. That is the only reason it survived or it would have met the fate like the other Times Square Movie Palaces. It also has landmark status which the big Times Square Movie Palaces did not.Disney was interested in purchasing or leasing this theatre but the church has been reluctant to give it up.The Warner Hollywood is very ornate like the Large Movie Palaces.Broadway may return here one day but I doubt movies ever will.Times Sqaure top rank movie palaces The Roxy,Capitol,Paramount,
Warner(Strand),State,Rivoli,Criterion,Astor,Victoria are all gone. A few legit theatres that showed movies for a period Lunt-Fontanne,Palace,Broadway,Mark Hellinger(Church)are still with us.All the 42nd St theatres that have been restored New Amsterdam,American
Airlines(Selywn),Victory and creative re-use such as The Empire,Ford Center(elements of both Lyric and Apollo but really a new theatre).The Liberty and Times Square are awaiting some sort of renovation.All the 42nd Theatres were built for stage but a good deal of there life they were movie theatres showing 1st and 2nd run and porn but wouldn't be in the same league as the Times Square Movie Palaces.
The Mayfair(Columbia,De Mille,Embassy 2,3,4)is still there but wasn't in the same class as the other Times Square Movie Palaces.The only reason this building is still there is the income from the Billboards.The landlord wants 1 Million a year for the Mayfair Theatre which means movies are out. Does this theatre still have a stage? Many theatres of this size around 1500 tore out there stage to put in the larger screens for the roadshow pictures of the 1950's and 1960's. Again Loews Jersey is a movie palace which should be supported. The only big Movie Palaces left in NYC with the Exception of Radio City,Beacon,and Loews 175th St are found in the Bronx,Queens,and Brooklyn.brucec

posted by brucec on May 11, 2004 at 1:51pm

Rhett: Thanks for the info on the Cinema 46, even though this thread is about the Astor. :)

RE: It was 1975 and yes, they didn't really advertise the audio so you can imagine the surprise to a 14 year old when these films blasted off the screen. (Tommy and Hindenburg).

I bet it was incredible! I remember jumping out of my seat during the 70mm presentation of "Star Wars," from the blast of the Star Wars theme, to Luke getting attacked on the bluff by a Tuskin Raider. Quite extraordinary.

RE: research for 70MM in NJ....Cinema 46 did play 1941, in 70MM 6 track. other 70MM at the Cinema 46...in the early 80's...Superman II, Outland, Poltergeist...I saw them all there...

Thanks for the info on these. I'm only up to 1978 on my research.

RE: If you ever get to Montclair State University, they have a good microfilm set.

I have a friend who lives in Cedar Grove, so maybe after I visit her, I can visit the Monclair State University library. Last year, I went to the movies with her and she took me to the old Cinema 23. Cool theater, except for it being chopped into more auditoriums.

I'm bummed that I didn't go to the Astor Plaza to see "Gangs of New York" last year during my visit to Manhattan. Another fine movie theater soon to be destroyed.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 11, 2004 at 2:19pm

With property values at a premium in Times Square/Midtown area in Manhattan. It would have been a very hard time to make money with some of those larger single screen theatres. With theatre companies replacing older theatres with more modern ones. This is before the real plex type theatres opened, you only had twins or triplexes. Even if someone had saved them for a few extra years. They would have had to change features every week to make some money. Where in studios wanted films to play first run for a selected number of weeks in high traffic markets. Thats what Metropolitan did in downtown Los Angeles with those palaces. But with that the theatres were not generally maintained well. Look at the sizes of those theatres we lost in Times Square area.

Roxy 5886 seats, replaced with a office building.
Capitol 5486 seats, replaced with a office building.
Paramount 3664 seats, gutted for office space.
Warner (Strand) 2720 seats, tri-plexed, replaced by hotel.
State 3339 seats, twinned, replaced by office building.
Rivoli 2092 seats, twinned, replaced by office building.
Criterion 1657 seats, plexed, gutted for retail.
Astor 1135 seats, replaced by a hotel.
Victoria 811 seats, replaced by a hotel.

Looking at the list the three largest houses, were replaced by offices. The Roxy and the Capitol theatres were just too large for their chains to hold on to. Their chains (Fox & Loew's)would have had to cut them up to make extra screen space. Because a few years ago Magic Johnson Theatres (Sony/Loew's) was going to make a like a 16-20 screen plex out of the Loew's Kings in Brooklyn. They would have had to cut that theatre all up to get that kind of screen count. The only thing left would have been the lobby. Look how they cut the Loew's Jersey, Paradise and the Metropolitan theatres. You lost or covered up the many of the theatres features in these conversions. Many times the theatre chains think of these older theatres as white elephants. In Hollywood, United Artists was all set in making the Egyptian Theatre their new flagship theatre by doing what Pacific Theatres did to the Cinerama Dome. But they could not get important zoning changes done by the Los Angeles City Council. They were going to add an 8-10 screen plex to play along side the main theatre and add food and other Hollywood type attactions for that block. They couldn't get the passing votes, so they dropped and let the Egyptian rundown.

posted by William on May 11, 2004 at 3:40pm

I'm always impressed by the breadth of your knowledge, William. One minor correction about the Warner Twin/Strand, though - it was actually replaced by 1585 Broadway, the office tower which houses part of JP Morgan Chase's Manhattan operations, among other white-collar tenants. The Central Theatre (a.k.a., Forum, Forum 47th Street, and Movieland, among other names during its years of operation), which stood on the southwest corner of Broadway and 47th Street, was demolished in 1998 and replaced by the midtown branch of Ian Schrager's W Hotels.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on May 11, 2004 at 4:52pm

Bill...for your research...in 1990...2 70MM presentations played in North NJ...Far and Away...and Dick Tracy at the Loews 6 plex in Wayne....I saw them both....ALSO IN 1983 at the Loews in Wayne I saw a 70mm print of Staying Alive..I believe Ghandi(1982) played in 70MM also at the Loews but it needs confirmation.

Many posters are annoyed about us getting off track about the Astor. I believe that this site seems to be our main office or gathering hall. Anyone agree?

posted by rhett on May 12, 2004 at 8:04am

Yes. Because of OT discussion, the Astor Plaza probably has the longest entry of any "Cinema Treasure" in the world!

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 12, 2004 at 8:10am

Maybe we shoould all get together and contact Loews and see if we can at least get them to salvage the State. I don't know at this point how much good it would do to try and save the Astor Plaza. I saw in an earlier post a comment about the Forum/Movieland. From what I saw in 2000 when I was in NYC, that theater is now a restaurant called the Roxy Deli. I don't remember seeing a hotel there.
Mike

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on May 12, 2004 at 12:44pm

no one ever mentions the Paris Theatre. The terrific single screen wonder across from the Plaza Hotel. I saw "Hans Christian Andersen" there in 1953 when it was day dating with the Criterion. The Paris shows fine foreign and independent films sometimes sharing with the downtown Sunshine Cinemas... I am sure the Paris will live on forever!

posted by StephenJohansen on May 12, 2004 at 1:40pm

Can someone tell me how to start a new topic? I can't figure it out and would like to post something. You can e mail me at Oaklandparkmike@aol.com Just reference cinema treasures in the subject line so I don't think it's spam.
Mike

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on May 12, 2004 at 1:44pm

Again.. ANy wor don WHEN the Astor Plaza will be closing and if it is definite or speculation or rumor?

posted by MikeRadio on May 17, 2004 at 8:56am

Its up to went the lease on the theatres is up and when MTV starts to build on the site. Most of the time they will wait till the lease is up or if they want the property early they will pay the leasee a large amount to leave early for the site. Looks like MTV is just waiting for the lease to end right now. But they are doing work in the building right now.

posted by William on May 17, 2004 at 9:16am

Starting Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, Loews Astor Plaza will be showing "Shrek 2" simultaneously with the nearby Loews 42nd Street E Walk Theatres.

posted by Warren G. Harris on May 17, 2004 at 9:34am

The theatre will be closing around the first week in August.

Afraid that I can not reveal my source, but it is very reliable.

Has anyone here been in the United Palace Theatre on 175th street and Broadway? I believe it is also an old Loew's Theatre.

I was inside recently. It has been maintained very well and as nice as the Ziegfield.

posted by John Cucchiara on May 17, 2004 at 11:20am

I never heard of it

posted by RobertR on May 17, 2004 at 12:50pm

Does he mean the Loew's 175th Street Theatre??

posted by William on May 17, 2004 at 1:11pm

You are correct.

I just looked on the site and that is the same place.

Fantastic inside.

posted by John Cucchiara on May 17, 2004 at 2:53pm

I guess, per John's initial post, now there *might* be a reason to see 'Shrek 2' ;-) In addition to two sites in Times Square, the second tale revolving around the giant green ogre is scheduled to open at the Beekman and First and 62nd Street Cinemas in Midtown East.

PS (to John, or anyone else who might be in the know) - is there any word on a closing time for the Loews State? Loews Cineplex has been looking to shake that albatross loose for at least three years and the talk has been (at least according to William's post in which he first brought forth to this site the bad news about the Astor Plaza) that that house would be shuttered sometime this calendar year.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on May 17, 2004 at 4:36pm

I guess I'll throw my two cents into the Great Astor Plaza Memorial Discussion. While there's a special place in my heart for the golden age palaces, the more modern Astor Plaza and Ziegfeld are truly the theatres of my youth. The most vivid movie-going experiences of my life happened in the big cozy room of the Astor. Everyone seems to remember the opening sequence of "Star Wars", with the intro crawl and the Star Destroyer roaring overhead. How about the STANDING OVATION the jump into hyperspace used to get? The nervous laughter as the growl of the Death Star trash compactor monster rippled 360 degrees around the audience in gut-rumbling Dolby? " Is there something alive in here?" I did my first movie war-whooping during the asteroid chase in "the Empire Strikes Back," was first dazzled by the credit-sequence of "Superman", thrilled to the Old Testament lightning spearing the Nazis at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"... all at the Astor.

Here's a thought. Hollywood stars like to imagine that they can a big difference in the world... well here's Samuel Jackson's chance to do some good. I've heard him reminisce more than once on talk shows how blown away he was when he caught "Star Wars" at the Astor Plaza back in the day, and so felt honored to star in the prequels and become part of the heritage.... someone should tap him on the shoulder and let him know he can help save a piece of his own heritage as a young impressionable wannabe in NYC... maybe the Astor can become the flagship of the Jackson Cineplex Chain? Just a thought...

posted by m_acevedo on May 17, 2004 at 10:16pm

Wishfull thinking Acevedo, but I doubt Sam jackson could care less about The Astor. I guess whatever memories we all have of the Astor will have to stay in our memories cause there ain't a dam thing we can do. It's all about money.

About the Loews State theater closing. Again, which theater is that, is that the one buried in the Virgin Record store and is that the Old State Theater site??

posted by rhett on May 18, 2004 at 4:28am

I have similar fond memories of the opening night of "Star Wars" at the Astor Plaza. While waiting in the downstairs lobby for the earlier show to let out, someone yelled out to the people leaving the theater, "Is it a war, man?" They let us in before the earlier show had cleared out, and there were lots of people still in their seats watching the credits roll by, and giving individual rounds of applause to special effects people and the Dolby System logo. I knew right then I was in for a rare moviegoing experience, and indeed it was, just as the Astor Plaza has become a rare big-screen single screen theater. It's going to be a sad day when it finally closes.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 18, 2004 at 4:39am

Yes, rhett that is the right theatre. Buried deep under the Virgin store. That was the site of the famed Loew's State Theatre in Times Square.
As you all have fond memories of "Star Wars" at the Astor Plaza. Mine was on the West Coast with the Plitt Century Plaza with "Star Wars". The Plitt Century Plaza's main house was just like the Astor Plaza in design, there was also a second theatre that seated 800 people. The Plitt later became a Cineplex and then a Loew's house.
Cineplex cut the rear half of the house to make two extra screens, too make a total of 4 screens at that site. Earlier this year Loew's closed the theatre, so it could be razed for a new office complex.

posted by William on May 18, 2004 at 6:41am

Rhett: Thanks for your additional help on the North NJ 70mm engagements. From my research, NJ certainly has had a lot of 70mm engagements.

William: I can relate to the memories of the Century Plaza theaters in Century City. I know some might feel that modern theaters like the Astor Plaza and Century Plaza aren't as nice as the palaces of the golden age of cinema, but for my era of growing up in the 1970s and early 1980s, theaters like the Plazas were very nice. Plain but the presentation was excellent and far better than most of the multiplex theaters that were built in the 1970s. I can remember the horrendous UA and AMC 6-screeners around my area in Southern California. Shoebox auditoriums, poor sound and dreadful presentation. Kind of reminds me of many of the current megaplexes. :)

The first time I went to the Century Plaza was for the restoration of "Lawrence Of Arabia" in 1989. Excellent presentation. My only gripe was that when the massive curtains opened, a rather small screen was revealed. The Showcase on Melrose was similar to this. Big front wall, small screen.

The Century Plaza was a fine theater, much like what the Astor must have been. I never would've known that the main auditorium at the Century Plaza was divided. It's one of the rare times when a large auditorium has been split and the result wasn't too horrendous. But then again, I never saw the original auditorium, which I heard was awesome.

The Astor Plaza is just another reminder of the madness of real estate development and megaplex madness. Why can't MTV pick another spot on which to build on? Why must our great theaters be altered or demolished? Single screen theaters can be used as "loss leaders" if I'm using the correct term. Use these flagships for audiences to attend "event" films. Bring back select 70mm presentations. The cost of a 70mm print rental will be offset by large, full houses. It worked back then, it can work now.

Audiences used to remember seeing big films like the original "Star Wars" films at the Astor Plaza, or the Century Plaza, or the UA Rivoli because both the film and presentation was far and above what they would see at a neighborhood theater. I talk to people today who rave about seeing a film like "Star Wars" or "Lawrence Of Arabia" at the big theaters of my area. That's pretty impressive, in my opinion. The theater made an impact on how they experienced the film. What a concept! Now how many people today boast about seeing films in these new 20-30 screen megaplexes? I hear more people rave about their high quality home theater system than how they experienced "Troy" on a small screen at their $10.00 a seat megaplex.

End of rant.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 18, 2004 at 11:17am

Thanks Bill K
Seeing a 70MM movie in a large single screen houses like the Plazas, Chinese, Rivoli, Cinerama Dome was an experience. If you stepped into the Astor Plaza auditorium, it design is much like the original Century Plaza auditorium. As Columbia rolled out the restoration of "Lawrence of Arabia" in 1989 at the Century Plaza Theatre in 70MM. About 2 miles east the original Premiere site in Beverly Hills,
The Warner Beverly Hills was being torn down. The empty lot sat for a few years at the corner of Wilshire Blvd and Canon Dr.. The Warner was one of the best houses to see a 70MM feature in town. It may have not been as big or wide as the Chinese or Pantages, but it was a class act.

posted by William on May 18, 2004 at 12:32pm

I saw Star Wars on opening night at the Coronet Theatre is San Francisco. It was truly an experience. Star Wars opened exclusively around the country and played many a single screen theatre for over a year. Sadly the exclusive runs and the big single screens are a thing of the past with a few exceptions. The Astor Plaza shouldn't have to play the same film as the megaplex down the street. I think the studios open some films a little to wide where its not cost effective in relation to print costs. Many films could play on 2 screens rather than four in the same megaplex.Its all about the film gross in week #1 at the boxoffice.brucec

posted by brucec on May 18, 2004 at 3:47pm

I agrre with what you are saying, but where I work, we are gonna have Shreck 2 on 6 screens, Troy on 5 screens and Van Helsing on 4 screens and Breakin all The Rules on 2 screens. that totals 17 screens for 4 movies, and whe have 7 screens left for 12 movies.

posted by MikeRa on May 18, 2004 at 4:31pm

I agree Bill...why not use the theaters for "loss leaders" (if thats the term. You know, when Radio City had their film festival, it was packed, I am so shocked they never continued it. Seeing "Jaws" with an audience of 5,ooo people was tremendous.
It would be great if The Astor played the greats and in 70MM. Can you imagine if the played "Star Wars" again. It would be packed. But it would take a movie lover , like all here, to bring that forth. Unfortunately, the theaters are run by businessman and not film lover businessman. It's all about the teenagers who don't even know what 70MM is. We are DOOMED. But we have our memories.

BTW... My "Star Wars" experience was at the Stanley Warner Route 4 in Paramus NJ. 70MM 6-track. My God, WHAT an experience, when the ship came overhead in the beginning the crowd went crazy, as they did when the ship went into hyperspace. When was the last time you saw a film that you know was an awesome experience. It's all about opening weekend numbers, not film quality, I mean Van Helsing ?? did you see the previews. I don't even care if I see it.
I guess we're all gonna have to rely on the Ziegfeld for film revivals....I can't believe "Around the World in 80 Days" isn't being re-released since it's out on DVD.

I've been going to the Lafayette Theater in Suffern, NY. It's an awesome theater. They show BigScreen classics in a series. They're showing "Jaws" and "Thunderball" in a few weeks.

posted by rhett on May 19, 2004 at 4:02am

RE: As Columbia rolled out the restoration of "Lawrence of Arabia" in 1989 at the Century Plaza Theatre in 70MM. About 2 miles east the original Premiere site in Beverly Hills, The Warner Beverly Hills was being torn down.

I wished I would've known that at the time and I would've tried taking photos. Now is this theatre similar in design to the Warner in San Pedro?

Rhett: Movies and movie exhibition have always been a business, but I think the real showman knew that quality and business could go hand-in-hand. Give audiences a good show, great presentation and reasonable priced concessions, they'll come and fill seats. Ted Mann, William Forman (to an extent), and Mr. Plitt of Plitt Theaters knew how to put on a show, even during the "cynical" '70s and '80s in their best theaters. Much of that is missing because of business types who think showmanship is old school and should be kept in the past.

In regards to "Around The World In 80 Days," I listened to Dick May of Warner Bros. at a recent Academy (Oscars) symposium. He says (I'm paraphrasing) that striking a print for a few loyal fans isn't cost effective. I understand where he's coming from, but I believe the film, when seen in its proper presentation, would be a success. I'm not a big fan of "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World," but it packed houses in Hollywood during its showings. I was glad to have seen it in 70mm. "Around The World In 80 Days," in my opinion, isn't much better, but it would be a draw. Show it at the Ziegfeld, Uptown in DC, the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood and the Seattle Cinerama. Costs recouped, fans happy.

The Astor Plaza, if it does close and nothing is done to save it, should run a swan song of classic films that played there. The Original "Star Wars" Trilogy. "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." Even "Logan's Run." The place would be packed.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 20, 2004 at 12:07am

California is the only place these great films are shown in 70mm or at all. Remember the Zeigfeld is booked no better then any suburban UA on Long Island.

posted by RobertR on May 20, 2004 at 5:49am

If Dick May really said this he sounds just like another overpaid executive who might as well be in the hardware business. If you struck a restored Todd AO print and presented it in lavish style at the Ziegfeld you'd make your money back and then some. Maybe this is the same guy who felt a Cinerama showing of 2001 in 2001 in New York wasn't worth the sweat off his brow. When I saw the restored My Fair Lady at the Ziegfeld in '93 which played for about a week I went to 3 showings and every one was packed. It could have played there for weeks but instead they had to bring in some ludicrous action flick with Meryl Streep.

posted by Vincent on May 20, 2004 at 7:16am

Which proves my point of the above post.

posted by RobertR on May 20, 2004 at 7:21am

Bill Kallay wrote:

The Astor Plaza, if it does close and nothing is done to save it, should run a swan song of classic films that played there. The Original "Star Wars" Trilogy. "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." Even "Logan's Run." The place would be packed.

What a great idea. The theater could go out in a blaze of glory.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 20, 2004 at 7:42am

Moviegoers in Los Angeles have been fortunate in the last 5 years. The Egyptian Theatre, run by the American Cinematheque in Hollywood, has had an almost annual 70mm festival. The El Capitan recently ran "TRON" in 70mm, and the Cinerama Dome ran IAMMMMW last year.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 20, 2004 at 8:29am

posted by Bill Kallay on May 20, 2004 at 8:30am

Vincent...Thank you...you are SO right. I remember when Spartacus was shown in 70mm in 91.It was a hit. 80 Days would also be a hit. I wish you had the job. Dick May probably has a teenager in his office calling the shots. and Bill Kallay, I definitely agree, if the Astor went out in a blaze of glory, there'd be lines around the block, but God forbid MTV doesn't get to start renovating so Brittany, Usher or some other godawful "talent" can have more studio space. I fear guys, that after our ranting and the theaters are all gone we'll all ...ride into the sunset with our memories and no hope for a cinema future..what can we do?

BTW...When was the last time a 70MM film played at all....besides Lawrence of Arabia last year??

posted by rhett on May 21, 2004 at 3:58am

BillK:
The Warner Beverly Hills Theatre had two other sisters, the Warner San Pedro and the Warner Huntington Park Theatres. Both the San Pedro (open) and Huntington Park (closed) Theatres are still around.
The Huntington Park was twinned in the 80's by Pacific Theatres. The Beverly was the Best of the three theatres. I spent two weeks taking pictures of the Beverly being razed.

Some people may think Dick May as a overpaid executive. But Dick May over the years has been very important in keeping the film libraries of Warner and MGM available to film fans around the world for theatres and Video release. He is in charge of maintaining those libraries. Many times its a uphill battle to find money to do full restorations of films. As time goes on, many of those negatives get older and older. Okay, Fox restuck and restored new 70MM prints of "Hello Dolly", "Patton" and "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines" and UA with "It's a Mad....World. It takes a lot of time and money and what condition the original film elements are in. The original negative to "Around the World..." was in such poor condition. A full Todd-AO restoration would cost between 8-10 million dollars. And that first 70MM print could cost as much as 100 Thousand dollars. So each year each studio's film library department has a budget as to what monies are to go to restore their libraries. Look how hard Martin Scorsese works towards getting films restored. It depends on how the original negative looks and how much the studio is willing to pay. Warner & the Wayne family have been battling over the price of restoring "The High and The Mighty". So today the film's negative is rotting away. In the perfect Studio World, every film would get restored.
When the Warner and Capital Theatres were razed, that left New York City without any theatre equipped to play Cinerama. So to say "a Cinerama showing of "2001" in 2001 in New York", it could not happen. Just to play the film in 70MM, does not mean it's a Cinerama presentation. To use the Cinerama logo, their was guidelines in presentations they had to go be. Remember Cinerama theatres had large curved screens and used special lenses and prints to use the Cinerama logo on their marquees.
When the Coronet Theatre closed alittle over a year ago. They had about a week of films that had played the theatre at one time. So maybe the Astor Plaza, may do the same. We can only hope.

posted by William on May 21, 2004 at 8:06am

William - The release of the video of 80 Days could have been preceeded by restored 70mm prints of the film in major cities with an enormous amount of attendant publicity much like Lawrence, Lady and Spartacus. Have you ever seen this film on TV? It just lays there and bores you stiff and many people wonder how it ever got an Oscar. Obviously outside of Todd's gift for generating publicity at the time it must have been whopping show in Todd AO. And remember audiences had already had quite a bit of experience with the Cinerama travelogues. Look at how much money the Disney people had made with the careful maintainng and exploitation of their catalogues. Look at how Warners treated Annie Get Your Gun. The film had not been seen in decades and then straight to video. It finally had a NY theater engagement and it shows at the Film Forum! What are they thinking?!
I'm sorry but if all that matters to you is video then Dick is doing a great job but if the films themselves matter then forget it.
Money and showmanship are not mutually exclusive.

posted by Vincent on May 21, 2004 at 8:47am

Vincent,

I'm not sure you're being fair to Dick May and Warner regarding Around the World in 80 Days, especially since they didn't produce it and aren't responsible for the sorry state of the negatives today. If you figure it would cost $10 million to restore and make a couple of 70mm prints, what do you think it could gross? The 1989 re-release of the restored Lawrence of Arabia - a far more acclaimed picture - only grossed $7 million with a ton of publicity, so Columbia got no more than $3.5 million out of it (and probably spent more than $2 million on the restoration and release). If it's a choice between spending 10 million and restoring one film or using that 10 million to preserve and make new prints of 10-20 other films, they have to go with what makes the most economic sense.

Spartacus grossed under $2 million on its restored re-release, My Fair Lady grossed under $1 million. Both of these probably cost nearly a million to restore and re-release and, again, they are going to be more popular than Around the World in 80 Days.

Now I'm sure that subsequent video and cable tv revenue have made these worth doing, but it would be tough to justify $10 million for Around the World, since there's no way it'll gross even half that. They have to weigh costs vs. returns on these projects, that's why the new prints of Singin' in the Rain and Adventures of Robin Hood were so nice to see. They could have let them be video only, but they took the time to create new negatives and new prints - which I played - and they looked stunning. Neither one cost anywhere close to a million to restore.

Pete Apruzzese
Director of Film Programming
Big Screen Classics at the Lafayette Theatre

posted by PeterApruzzese on May 21, 2004 at 9:23am

Pete,
Then you know how glorious these films are on screen and how worthwhile they are to show them in theaters(and not screening rooms.) As I pointed out above the Lady restoration got only a weeks 70mm play in NY could have played much longer and then in NJ as well. Had they been more enterprising they could have made a lot more money and gotten more publicity for the video. To be fair to Mr. May a 10 million restoration for 80 Days has left me speechless.

posted by Vincent on May 21, 2004 at 9:52am

Vincent - Yes, I have seen and ran the movie in 70MM & 35mm. Its great to see the film on a theatre screen. I'm all for a re-release of the film, but the executives at Warner were not willing to go for a full 70MM restoration of the film. Yes, I have seen the picture on TV, the pan & scan verson just sucks. Some people love this movie and others feel it's very dated. I like the movie and have seen it many times. But the executives that Mr. May has to answer too, are the ones that you should be pointing the finger at. If you remember back in 1983, Warner did a reissue of a cut down version of "80 Days". They made 70MM prints of this version and select theatres played it around the country. That release did poorly, maybe they based some of the facts of that release to why they did no special release screenings to make it's return to the screen. The facts are since the 80's, the theatres that play older films like the Film Forum here in NYC and Nuart in LA and countless other around the country. Sometimes find it hard to get print of some titles. The studios all have studio copies of the films, but they are most of the time only for special screenings. They might have one or two prints in the their classic departments for theatres around the country. In the days when theatres employed real projectionists and it was a craft. Those operators maintained the prints for show, today you have kids running the booths and most of the time not caring about the presentations and the prints. There are some that do care, but there are not many. So those prints get trashed fasted, then the studio wanted to restrike a new print. Look at the Astor Plaza Theatre, if Loew's still though it was that important of a house. They would have never made it manager/operator house. Thats why those great memories of great presentations at that theatre are all in the past.
To maybe answer your question on those three titles. The studios might see other factors like director and broad audience appeal.
Because "Lawrence" was David Lean, "Spartacus" was Stanley Kubrick and "My Fair Lady" was a major Broadway Hit Musical. The suits that run the studio made this decision on "80 Days", are the ones that green light the stuff that fill the theatres today. Almost all geared to the 17 year old audience.
Today its all about the money, thats why they open a picture on 3000+ screens. To get the big headline "Number One movie this week".

posted by William on May 21, 2004 at 10:06am

William was 80 Days released in NY in '83? I have no memory of this. And why would they strike 70mm prints and then release it cut? In fact the last memory I have of this film in a theater was the re-release when I was a boy. I have been dying to see it again in a theater since then. Now would have been the perfect time but I guess Warners is looking at the Jackie Chan version to be their publicity. I guess now we'll never see it as it was originally presented. Ah well.

posted by Vincent on May 21, 2004 at 10:33am

Vincent - When Warner Bros. bought the rights to this film, from Elizabeth Taylor (to whom UA lost control of the film in the 1970's) the rights reverted to Miss Taylor. So Warner bought the right for later re-releases. United Artist's last reissue of "80 Days" was in 1968, there was still some 70MM prints available at that time. Warner did a re-release in 1983, there were some 70MM prints. In Los Angeles it played at the Vista Theatre in 35mm Dolby Stereo only. The reason I know there were 70MM prints, was I was in San Francisco for the weekend and it was playing at the Regency #1 in 70MM 6-Track Dolby Stereo. I don't know about a NY engagement for then. Warner tried to streamline the film (like "Star is Born", mid 60's reissue of "Lawrence"), so they cut around 20 minutes plus of footage from that issue. Back in the mid 70's in Beverly Hills, the chains would book some of these Roadshow Films into the Warner Beverly Hills, The Beverly, Fox Wilshire Theatres. At that time the exchanges still had servicable 70MM prints to run. It was great to see them back up there on the screen.

posted by William on May 21, 2004 at 11:49am

"80 Days" played at the McClurg Court Theater in Chicago in 1983 (not sure if it was 70mm, though). I'm pretty sure it didn't play New York in 1983 at all. The only time I saw it in a theater was at the Ziegfeld in 1972, when I was 17. It was on a special double bill with "West Side Story" - 5 and a half hours of Oscar winning Best Pictures from United Artists. I don't know if they were 70mm prints, but I like to think they were.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 21, 2004 at 12:00pm

Great comments all....Movies are a business YES. It's all taking a chance. If 80 Days was re-released , it probably wouldn't make much money but it IS part of film history and that's how films are RE discovered. Sure, show it at the Ziegfeld, it would do fine but bottom line as you all said, no one will consider shelling out the bucks while the next Freddie Prinz jr. film is in the can. It's all a gamble. With great advertising to make it an event I bet it would do well. They did that with Gone With the Wind in 98, now I don't think they thought it was going to gross $50 million but it did respectable business BUT, it was released as a movie to re-discover and re experience. A 60 year old 4 hour movie from the 30's. That's the whole point of restoring and rediscovering (I'm overusing this term yes) classic movies. It's just that the money will not be shelled out for it, but I have to believe that a print or 2 have been struck for special showings and that at some point we'll see it.

Maybe at The Lafayette huh Pete?? The last great theater still operating. I urge all of you to go see a film there.

Overall, it's a damn shame that 80 Days will only be seen on a TV screen where it wasn't meant to be experienced.

posted by rhett on May 23, 2004 at 10:59am

Rhett:

I asked my contacts at Warner Classics just the other day about "80 Days" and they told me that there have been no new prints struck, which is a shame. There's been no definitive information published about this DVD "restoration", so I don't know if it was something that was created on film or a digital process for DVD only - if it was done on film, then they should strike a print or two. I would love to play it as part of my series this fall, but I've got 14 other shows lined up that should keep film fans happy, including several new prints with one film presented in vintage IB Technicolor! Titles will be announce in about 2 weeks, once everything is confirmed.

Pete Apruzzese
Director of Film Programming, Big Screen Classics at the Lafayette Theatre

posted by PeterApruzzese on May 23, 2004 at 2:52pm

We live in a world of home video and television with only a selected few venturing out to see movies that are on TV all the time.
That's us. Whatever we may understand about the financial woes of restoring a classic film, doesn't mean we have to like it, and obviously we don't. But it's people like all on this site that have a loud voice about keeping these films alive and shown the way they're supposed to. Keep it up. I doubt 40 years from now that there'll be a site like this debating about restoring Van Helsing to be seen again on the big screen!!

posted by rhett on May 24, 2004 at 4:10am

Rhett: It's funny to think about people 40 years from now looking back fondly to Van Helsing. In 40 years they'll probably still be talking about Gone With the Wind and Around the World in 80 Days. The really good stuff never gets forgotten.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 24, 2004 at 6:43pm

I just don't think "Around The World in 80 DAyS" has held up very well through the years. Some films hold up well and some films don't.It was a huge success when released and many a theatre were renovated such as the Mike Todd Theatre in Chicago which was also owned by Elizabeth Talylor for many years.I doubt very much it would be successful. At least it is being restored for its DVD release."Van Helsing" will never be considered a classic. The years 1939,1940 produced some of the greatest films ever made.This is where art and commerce came together and the studio system was at its height. I know film buffs like movies for many different reasons and everyone has there personal favorites.It would be lovely if a great movie theatre showed classic films in the proper setting from all decades.brucec

posted by brucec on May 25, 2004 at 1:06am

I agree with a previous post about "80 Days". That watching it on TV , it is a boring film. In fact I believe of all the BEST PICTURE winners, I consider it the most overrated and unworthy of a win, considering in 1956, there was Ten Commandments, King and I and Giant. But, I DO feel that if it was seen on the big screen, it might have a different impact. As we all know, there's nothing like the experience of a big screen experience like the Astpr would offer. Guess we'll just have to let this one go.

So, for ALL the Astor Plaza fans, this is a good anniversary day, and a little nostalgia.....27 years ago today, May 25, 1977, STAR WARS opened across the country and at the Astor. A 70MM masterpiece. So, Happy Anniversary to us all who share in a great big screen 6-track sound 70mm memory. Those were the days.

posted by rhett on May 25, 2004 at 4:07am

Rhett-Can you call Star Wars a 70MM masterpiece when it was not filmed as such? I think if I remember correctly in the late 70's and 80's there were many big films released as 70MM blow ups but they never look nearly as good as the real thing.

Again, lets have a cinema with at least a 68 ft screen in NY so that we can see the real and even the ersatz.

posted by Vincent on May 25, 2004 at 5:49am

I was in the Astor Plaza on Saturday to see "Shrek 2". Loew's has changed those 4 backlit posters as you go downstairs to Loew's type ads and one of them dates back to last summer with the movie "The Core". The auditorium was far less then 1/4 full at the 5:55PM show. The presentation was just fair, print was damaged with afew scratches and splices. The film just opened three days before. It just shows you how Loew's feels about this theatre, as long as they get their $10.25 admission.

posted by William on May 25, 2004 at 8:20am

Star Wars Ep. IV played in a couple of other theatres with the 70mm prints, beside the Loews Astor Plaza. I remember it playing at The Eric's Place Theatre in Philadelphia, PA on 70mm prints

posted by MikeRa on May 26, 2004 at 12:31am

Vincent....well if you wanna get technical??? I saw it at Stanley Warner in Paramus, I was 16,at that time I was working at the Clifton theater where "THe Deep" was playing, Mom picked me up after work,we all stood in line in Paramus and when the opening scene occurred, the audience flipped, I remember thinking, I'll never have an experience like this again (so for me, a masterpece). If it wasn't filmed in 70MM, it didn't matter to me, it was shown in 70MM and the it worked for me. Last night I watched the original version again and it brought back memories.

There were many 70MM flicks I've experienced and alot of them made a difference in the viewing. I mean I saw "Staying Alive" in 70MM, it was great. When I saw it again, I thought, "What were they thinking"!! "Far and Away" was shot in 70MM and not only did the film stink, but I was unimpressed by the 70MM...but, Vincent, I hear where you're coming from and I agree with your wish for a 68ft. screen. To each his own I guess. I also suppose it's not worth it to venture to the Astor to say goodbye since the quality seems to be slipping. Guess we'll just keep our own experiences in
memory.

posted by rhett on May 26, 2004 at 3:51am

Rhett: I also watched Star Wars on its anniversary last night and made believe I was back in the Astor Plaza. I remember every detail of that screening: the wild audience reaction to the jump to hyperspace, where the laughs came in, even the row I sat in. I also remember feeling that I had to see this movie again as soon as I could, and to tell everybody I knew how good it was. My second time was at the Stanley Warner in Paramus. I wound up seeing it in a theater 32 times, most of them at the Astor Plaza.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 26, 2004 at 9:44am

Rhett- The 68' would be for Todd AO and other 70mm films but definitely 100' for Cinerama.
Does anybody know the measurements of the Astor Plaza and Ziegfeld's screens?

posted by Vincent on May 26, 2004 at 11:05am

As per the sign in the lobby of the Astor Plaza, it seats 1528 people.

posted by William on May 26, 2004 at 1:28pm

From Vincent-Can you call Star Wars a 70MM masterpiece when it was not filmed as such? I think if I remember correctly in the late 70's and 80's there were many big films released as 70MM blow ups but they never look nearly as good as the real thing.

I think it's safe to to say that as a 70mm presentation, "Star Wars" was superior to anything else in the market at the time. You got a bright and sharp picture image on the screen, not to mention the fantastic Six Track Dolby Stereo soundtrack. The also prompted many, many theaters to upgrade their projection and sound equipment over time. Sure, when you compare a blow-up to a true 65mm image, the 65mm image is clearly superior. But compared to what we get now, I'll take a 70mm blow-up anytime.

I'll agree with Rhett on "Far And Away." Mikael Soloman's cinematography is superb, but by shooting the film in foggy and dark locations, the film left most people asking, "What's so special about 70mm?" But if you recall, when the Oklahoma scenes came up, the picture was awesome.

Bill H: Cherish those memories, because Star Wars: Episode III is on its way! :) I remember those feelings of excitement watching that original film. What a kick it was. Now I'm getting depressed! Another great theater is about to be closed. We don't have 70mm presentation hardly anymore (except for revivals and IMAX DMR). And George is unleashing the last of a pretty underwhelming trilogy. Who said change was good?

posted by Bill Kallay on May 26, 2004 at 10:54pm

Well. at least I'm not alone. I'm not the only one who watched Star Wars on the anniversary and remembered. In fact I watched the whole "original" version s of the trilogy. Most would say.."get a life". But hey, it's my life. Glad tthere are other members.

Yes, I've been researching lately too as to all the 70MM presentations that were shown and I've seen. It's amazing , all the 70mm showings that were. Now, there aren't any.

posted by rhett on May 27, 2004 at 3:56am

Rhett: you may be aware of it already, but here is a website that you will definitely enjoy:

in70mm.com

and you'll like this article for sure:

http://in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/star_wars_1977.htm

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 27, 2004 at 4:55am

Thanks Bill. Because of this site, I found it a while ago, I think it's great. I wish they had more about 70MM presentations from NY and NJ. I've been researching myself and it's amazing, all the 70MM showings there were. Thanks again.

posted by rhett on May 28, 2004 at 5:27am

Bill, great Star Wars article. It brings back memories as I remember knowing people who saw the film for the first time at a standard 35mm mono sound theater(in those days most were mono) and they either, didn't see what was the big deal, fell asleep or hated it.
I remember the 3rd and 4th time I saw the film was at the Totowa Cinema 2 and the Willowbrook 3 (former grand theaters then cut up for multiplexing) and I was ...well, quite bored. The next time was the 79 re-release and I saw it again in 70MM at the Paramus theater and I loved it. It just goes to show that the 70MM showings made the difference for seeing that movie and for our memories. I assume that's one of the reasons there's so many replies to the Astor Plaza.

posted by rhett on May 28, 2004 at 5:45am

I was a big fan of the Loews Century Plaza Cinemas in Century City at the (former) ABC Entertainment Center, and had hoped to someday travel to New York to visit the Astor because this website said it was similar. Now that it seems the Astor is going to be closed in August (according to another post on this page), I guess the great era of Loews' old theatres has come to an end. Does anybody know of another great old theatre that ISN'T scheduled for demolition/closure?

posted by Mark Tufiftee on May 28, 2004 at 6:24am

Guys you should read my post about the Astor Plaza I wrote under the Capitol in response to William's description of December '68 in Times
Square. How ironic that you are all waxing nostalgic about this place. Well as they say one's man's junk is another man's treasure!

As well I would love to know what played in 70mm and where. Did Star Wars play at the Stanley Warner in NJ in 70mm or do we think it did.
When the roadshows played the smaller towns like Montclair and Asbury Park were they 70 or 35? And what in the world happened to all those prints?

posted by Vincent on May 28, 2004 at 6:56am

Vincent: Star Wars definitely played in 70mm in Paramus, NJ. This article has a link to a list of all the theaters that played the 70mm version:

http://in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/star_wars_1977.htm

Also, the '60's roadshows in Montclair were 70mm, based on newspaper ads from the time. I recall an ad for Exodus at the Millburn Theater which said Panavision 70. And the only one I actually saw myself, The Shoes of the Fisherman at the Bellevue, was 70mm for sure.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 28, 2004 at 7:34am

The studios only made a limited numberof 70MM prints, not like those numbers they do for todays film releases. The major markets would get the major 70MM Roadshow releases. Some of the smaller towns would or might get the feature in 35mm 4-Track Stereo. About 99 & 9/10th % of all those 70MM prints are gone with the wind. The studios would destroy the print instead of paying storage fees and the age of the prints too. The film exchanges would dismount the film and trash it and reuse the shipping cans and reels for later 70MM releases.
One problem about newspaper ads is they would state use the film's format photography as a selling point. So "Exodus" was photographed in Panavision 70, but sometimes a newspaper ads would word it that way. And other ads would read "Presented in Panavision 70", and that would be the correct way for presentation. One way show it was photographed in 70MM and the other shows how it was presented in 70MM. That one you have to look out for when doing research in film ad formats.

posted by William on May 28, 2004 at 8:56am

William were Oliver and Funny Girl presented at the State and the Criterion in NY in blow up 70mm? Neither was filmed in the process and neither were advertised in their original roadshow engagements as being in presented in 70mm. It seems odd that two major films at this time playing at 70mm houses were simply shown in Panavision. Maybe Columbia had a major budget crunch concerning prints. Interestingly these are probably the only two of the hardticket movies at this time that made money.

posted by Vincent on May 28, 2004 at 9:28am

William: I never thought of it that way. I just assumed that if they're showing the movie at reserved seat prices, and exclusive to the area outside New York City, then they'd be showing it in 70mm just like the NYC theaters. I should never assume ...

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 28, 2004 at 11:57am

I have never been in the Astor Plaza, but based on the information here, this theatre "should be a keeper." However, I want to make a correction to MikeRa statement on May 26th. "Star Wars" did play at the Eric's Place Theatre in Philadelphia. However, that theatre did not present films in 70mm. It was too small. The screen area was between two exit doors. The theatre only had no more than 400 seats. It was the Trans-Lux originally before being taken over by Sameric Theatres. "Star Wars" moved from the Eric's Place to the Eric's Mark 1 a number of weeks after its opening. The Mark 1 was capable of showing 70mm, but the screen size still did not compare

to the Sameric/Boyd Theatre a few blocks away. Hence when the next two "Star Wars" films were released, they were both shown in "real good" 70mm on the real large screen of the Sameric/Boyd Theatre. Both the Eric's Place and Mark 1 have long since been closed. The Sameric/Boyd Theatre, the last movie palace in center city, has been closed for two years now. But there is great support to restore and reopen this movie palace. I attended the "roashow" showings of "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines" and "Ryans Daughter" at the TransLux (Eric's Place) and on my first visit for "Flying Machines" was extremely disappointed on the screen size for a roadshow presentation.

posted by DennisZ on May 29, 2004 at 7:55pm

Thanks to Bill Huelbig for pointing out my collaborator's "Star Wars" articles on ...in70mm.com. Michael Coate put a lot of time and research into this article. Hopefully you got a "kick" out of finding out which places showed the classic in 70mm. He also compiled a list of "The Empire Strikes Back," "Alien" and "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind" 70mm engagements.

One of the important aspects about the phenomenon of "Star Wars" was the fact that its presentation in 70mm really set it apart from other films. It truly took the way audiences, for a time, experienced a movie. Certainly the Roadshows were on a higher level than their 35mm counterparts, but it was "Star Wars" in 70mm that introduced an new generation to better picture quality and super sound. So if you go through Mike's list, I hope you can appreciate that a number of theaters upgraded their projection and sound equipment to "wow" audiences with this film. No longer was 70mm Six Track Stereo presentation just for musicals and epics; it was for exciting popcorn movies, too. Some exhibitors figured that great projection of 70mm and six track sound could bring in audiences and $$$$. Why can't they figure that out nowadays?

posted by Bill Kallay on May 29, 2004 at 11:47pm

Rhett wrote: I wish they had more about 70MM presentations from NY and NJ.

Rhett, I hope you and other fans of Cinema Treasures and 70mm will visit ...in70mm.com in the coming month. Mike Coate and I have been compiling an engagement list of 70mm presentations in the Manhattan and New Jersey areas (Paramus, Upper Montclair and Cedar Grove) from the Roadshow Era to the Present. We're closing in on the final years of our research.

Since this is a "work-in-progress," we will, over time, attempt to compile further engagements, including those that may have played in New Jersey (as listed above), but may have not initially been advertised in the NY Times.

This project is an off-shoot of other lists we've compiled on 70mm engagements, including San Francisco, San Diego and Los Angeles (which will be posted soon).

As you know, New York was a big market for 70mm, therefore it took us some time to compile these engagements. We started this project back in July of 2003 and have done a week-by-week search of 70mm presentation in NYC and NJ. As you may suspect, it's a time consuming project, and I say that in a positive way. Why would we do this? We did this not only because we're fans of 70mm and the theaters those kind of films played in, but also as a historical document of this format. Hopefully you'll be able to link those 70mm engagements with theaters listed on this site, as well.

posted by Bill Kallay on May 29, 2004 at 11:50pm

To Bill Kallay and Mike Coate: I'm sure all of us on this thread can't wait to see your upcoming lists. We really appreciate the hard work you put into it and we're grateful to you for even attempting it. Seeing a list like that will be the next best thing to seeing a beloved movie classic in 70mm.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 30, 2004 at 6:15pm

I for one can't wait and would it be looking a gift horse in the mouth to ask for Asbury Park and Atlantic City as well?(give them an inch...)

posted by Vincent on Jun 1, 2004 at 7:01am

To Bill H. and Vincent:

Thanks for the kind words. And yes, it would be looking a gift horse in the mouth. :)

I don't believe any Asbury Park engagements, at least during the roadshow era, were included in The New York Times. So as a result, additional research from other sources would be required in order to integrate that area's engagements into our project. Our principal source of the info has been The New York Times.

We have a couple Asbury Park/Belmar/Neptune area 70mm-equipped theatres included in the theatre portion of our project (St, James in Asbury Park, Man Ray in Belmar....), but are debating whether or not they should stay since we're undecided if we want to consider that area to be a part of the "New York" market.

I think it is reasonable to consider Atlantic City a separate market
entirely, and one we haven't considered researching at this time.

It would be nice to cover some other major markets, like Boston, Washington D.C. and Philadelphia. But time contraints, as well as cost, limit us to select regions to research. Mike has had the opportunity to do some extensive traveling across the country, and has unearthed some excellent information on 70mm and 70mm-equipped theaters.

If you're interested, we will eventually have Los Angeles, New York and Orange County (CA, and actually quite a sizable 70mm market) 70mm lists posted at ...in70mm.com.

Again, thanks for the kind words and interest in our work.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 3, 2004 at 5:29pm

Bill and Mike...the 70MM site is excellent. I look forward to the NJ list. Because of you guys, my interest has peaked and I have been doing my own research to all the 70MM flicks I have seen or has been presented. In my research, it's amazing, all the "presentations" (for you Vincent) that played in 70MM. It seems every big movie played in at least 1 or 2 theaters in NY or NJ in 70mm.

You know, it has me thinking...have we seen the demise of the 70MM presentaion?? It seems the only special showing these days are the digital presentations. It's also a damn shame that most of the 70mm prints have been destroyed. Wouldn't it have been great if the prints were preserved and used for the home video DVD transfers? I mean even movies like Rocky III and Staying Alive, which were great being seen in 70MM might have had a better DVD presentation with the 70MM six track print...I don't know...it seems such a waste.

The Loews/Sony multiplex in Willowbrook in Wayne showed many 70MM showings. Now it's a multiplex dump.

Anyway good work guys, I wonder if both our researches turn up the same thing. I have been taking the microfilm and making copies of the pages for my own collection.

posted by rhett on Jun 4, 2004 at 3:59am

Rhett wrote: "In my research, it's amazing, all the "presentations" (for you Vincent) that played in 70MM."

Kind of ironic how the format has been shoved to the backburner of film history especially considering how popular the format was!

"It seems every big movie played in at least 1 or 2 theaters in NY or NJ in 70mm."

And then some! Just wait until you see the 1980s lists of 70mm runs in the region. Pretty incredible.

"You know, it has me thinking...have we seen the demise of the 70MM presentaion??"

Unfortunately, I think it has been pretty well "put to bed." It seems that those who make films and those who distribute them, but not all, are content with pleasing the masses. So that means that virtually every film has to have that same jerky, zooming editing style; virtually every film is a sequel; virtually every movie theater built nowadays is like the one down the street, etc. So why not invest a few extra dollars in shooting in 65mm, or even printing a few 70mm prints for those massive 80-foot screens? I've even recently seen some 24p High Definition video transferred to 70mm print stock and it looks very good! The same footage, digitally projected, didn't look even close to the quality of the 70mm print.

I find it funny that almost $200-million can be spent to make a film and market it, but someone in the ranks of getting a film distributed gripes about the cost of a 70mm print! More money is spent on Brad Pitt's hair gel than would be spent on a 70mm print or two.

We *do* have some current 70mm first run presentations today. "Harry Potter 3" just opened day-and-date in select IMAX screens. But this is neither true IMAX nor is it a blow-up. The film, from what I've heard, is being shown in widescreen and was digitally transfered to IMAX via the original digital files.

I find this 70mm presentation awkward. The film is shown on a huge screen, but it's letterboxed. But the picture quality is very good. You gotta figure that those commercial complexes that invested a lot of money into building and maintaining an IMAX screen are struggling. They need to make money somehow, even if that means showing crummy "enhanced 35mm" prints or psuedo-IMAX.

I think it's far less expensive to strike 5-perf 70mm prints of the film. And with today's film stock, they would look very, very good.

"It's also a damn shame that most of the 70mm prints have been destroyed. Wouldn't it have been great if the prints were preserved and used for the home video DVD transfers?"

I think it's a shame that a number of 65mm negatives might be rotting as we speak. But there have been a number of 65mm transfers to home video formats over the years. And kudos to 20th Century Fox for restoring "The Sound Of Music," "Patton," and "Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines" and having the guts to strike new prints and showing them. Warners and Disney are also to be commended for striking 70mm prints of "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World," and "Tron" and "Sleeping Beauty."

I think it's sad that NYC/NJ hasn't had the opportunity to see some of these restored 70mm titles. I guarentee you that if The Ziegfeld ran a 70mm restrospective on these classics, they'd have sell-outs. Even people who don't know much about film formats *do* notice the difference in the quality of a 70mm print compared to 35mm. They would line up to see these films on the big screen. I've seen this succeed here in L.A. at the American Cinematheque.

Thanks again for the kind words.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 4, 2004 at 10:12pm

Well Bill...what can we do here (East coast) to get these knuckleheads to keep 70MM alive?? You know, it's like the youth today who don't like to watch a Black and White film...you mention 70MM to them and they don't care....many adults too for that matter.

I remember going to se Spartacus at the Ziegfeld in 91 in 70MM. I was told..."You have it on tape, why are you paying to go see it?"

Lord they have eyes but cannot see!

I believe we in this room are a minority....film lovers, who value the presentation. Thetaer chains are run by ignorants or high schoolers who could care less, they just flip the switch. They are the Mexican army under Santa Anna and we are the small army inside The Alamo. We're outnumbered and doomed to lose...but we'll fight to the end.

posted by rhett on Jun 5, 2004 at 6:25am

One problem with IMAX is that it is a "large screen" format and not a "widescreen format"--The aspect ratio of IMAX is 1:37-1(the original standard pre-widescreen was 1:33-1). The only way you could show "widescreen" films on an IMAX screen is by letterboxing. I actually recall seeing Star Wars II-Attack of the Clones that was "especially done for IMAX"--What had been done was the following:

1. The image was cropped from 2:40-1 to 1:37-1 in order to show it full-frame. The film itself was filmed digitally, but most theaters do not have digital projection systerms, so prints had to be struck. The digital files were not reconfigured for IMAX, instead the film was cropped.

2. For the IMAX edition, the film was also edited by about 20-25 minutes due to its original length. Slower expository scenes and some of the "romantic" storyline was edited out.

posted by scottfavareille on Jun 5, 2004 at 12:26pm

Rhett: When you said:

We're outnumbered and doomed to lose...but we'll fight to the end.

I appreciate that you used a 70mm movie ("The Alamo") to make your point.

I saw the new Harry Potter at the Astor Plaza on Friday night. It was a packed house, the screen was huge, the audience was enjoying themselves ... if this was to be the last time I'd ever see a movie there, I'm glad it was a fine example of all that a big single-screen theater can be.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jun 6, 2004 at 5:50am

Sounds good Bill....I may have to venture to the Astor to see Potter too. Scott....egarding the editing of Attack of the Clones...gee, I bet it was a better picture shorter. I had seen Apollo 13 in IMAX..it was good, edited also and it was just like the TV version, cropped. But on the IMAX screen, it was a good experience

posted by rhett on Jun 6, 2004 at 6:30am

I would bet that Astor Plaza will have Spiderman 2 in it...

This will probably be the last film that I see there...

posted by John Cucchiara on Jun 7, 2004 at 2:55pm

Rhett wrote: What can we do here (East coast) to get these knuckleheads to keep 70MM alive??

Do you have a film society, like an American Cinematheque? The Cinematheque out here has presented a number of fine 35mm, 70mm and even some rarely seen widescreen films at the Hollywood Egyptian Theatre. Perhaps a film society in NYC could procure some 70mm prints of the newly restored classics. As for new 70mm, well...

There's some kind of thought in the film business that 70mm is a cumbersome thing. But when I've listened to some DPs at various seminars, they've commented that the newer 65mm cameras are almost every bit as easy to use as their 35mm counterparts. The lighting set-ups are virtually identical and the cost isn't as bad as some anti-70mm people might say. Considering it costs about $150-million to make and market a film today, shooting a handful of films in 65mm is nothing!

Rhett: I remember going to see Spartacus at the Ziegfeld in 91 in 70MM. I was told..."You have it on tape, why are you paying to go see it? Thetaer chains are run by ignorants or high schoolers who could care less, they just flip the switch.

So many people just don't get it! Does the Ziegfeld still put on a great presentation? I know that some of the Westwood and Hollywood houses still care about quality presentation.

Scott wrote: One problem with IMAX is that it is a "large screen" format and not a "widescreen format"--The aspect ratio of IMAX is 1:37-1(the original standard pre-widescreen was 1:33-1). The only way you could show "widescreen" films on an IMAX screen is by letterboxing.

If I may, the approximate aspect ratio on IMAX is 1.44:1. And it's true, if a director wishes to maintain the original widescreen aspect ratio on his film, the film does need to be letterboxed. But with "Apollo 13, " and "Attack Of The Clones," the films were cropped. "Apollo 13" was done in 1.66:1 (similar to Disney's re-purposed animated films), and "Clones" was cropped to an unusal 1.81:1 ratio. Thus both films were letterboxed. With the tallness factor of an IMAX screen, the lettterboxing isn't as bothersome.

Those digitally re-purposed films do look pretty good on the IMAX screen, though we're still not getting true IMAX, or a true 35mm widescreen presentation.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 7, 2004 at 8:55pm

Bill, I would love to start some sort of organization to show 70MM flicks. The problem is, no money, no theater, no contacts, wouldn't know where to start and I couldn't get a theater anyway. I'm afraid (for myself) this will just have to be a dream.. a MAJOR life regret. If there was an existing organization, I would be the most loyal soldier, but money talks...and who has it? Oh well.

RE: Does Zeigfeld put on a good presentation.....last year in Oct. 2002 I saw the 40th Anniversary of Lawrence of Arabia...in remastered 70MM. Probably the last 70MM I'll ever see..I hope not..it was an awesome experience to see.

RE: Around the World in 80 Days....it has been stated here that no 70MM prints were struck for it...but on the site in70mm.com there is a photo of the film showing on a screen?? Is this a 70MM print Bill??

posted by rhett on Jun 8, 2004 at 4:26am

East coast 70mm fans: Try and get to Silver Spring, Maryland sometime. AFI has a newly restored art deco theatre there which is fully equipped for all formats except three projector Cinerama. In recent months they have shown two very rare 70mm prints: the French 1967 comedy PLAYTIME directed by Jacques Tati (which on the giant screen plays like a cross between Stanley Kubrick and Buster Keaton) and the Russian version of WAR AND PEACE (undoubtedly the most spectacular movie ever made). Also in the same vicinity, in DC, is the Uptown theatre with one of the last of the old Cinerama screens... deeply curved and about 70 feet wide. They show mostly new blockbusters, but has been a prime site for such restorations as LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, MY FAIR LADY, VERTIGO, and SPARTACUS. It was also where 2001 had its world premiere in 1968. Too bad about NYC... it is amazing to me that they have lost/destroyed so many venues for spectacular presentation.

posted by bufffilmbuff on Jun 8, 2004 at 6:16am

This could be a minor point but a true 70mm release print of
"WORLD IN 80 DAYS" would be in 30 frames per second (like Oklahoma)
This means a 25% increase in film stock- and cost- for the same running time.

Also,if there are any projectionists reading this and you ever
have to run one of these 2 30fps release prints, strange things can
happen to a 70mm projector (higher speed and vibration).

Tighten up everything.

I saw "OKLAHOMA" IN 70MM 30FPS several years ago at the Wang Theatre in Boston. The show went off first class (thanks to the great crew there) but you could hear the film going though Norelco's
in the front row.

posted by Richard Dziadzio on Jun 8, 2004 at 6:31am

On a previous posting somebody mentions 80 ft screens in NY. Where are they? I would love know. Even the Ziegfeld has only a 50ft screen. Pretty pathetic for the only roadshow house left in Manhattan(and I believe it only showed one roadshow film-Marooned in '69. Others were reserved performances. Correct me though if I'm wrong.)

posted by Vincent on Jun 8, 2004 at 6:40am

I was wondering if the Ziegfeld still uses the two curtains they had instead of those stupid reapeating slides? The last movie I saw there was the opening day of Yentyl in 1983 and than I moved to Florida.
Mike

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jun 8, 2004 at 11:59am

RE Bill K's quote: So why not invest a few extra dollars in shooting in 65mm, or even printing a few 70mm prints for those massive 80-foot screens?

And Vincent's Response: On a previous posting somebody mentions 80 ft screens in NY. Where are they? I would love know.

Hi Vincent, I was speaking in general about the state of cinemas and lack of 70mm today. Some complexes in Southern California, at least when they first opened, boasted huge 80-ft. screens. I *believe* Pacific's Winnetka Stadium 21 has at least one or two. The Irvine Spectrum 21, an Edwards theater, boasts at least two 80-foot screens in their "Chinese" and "Egyptian" auditoriums. I've heard two different specs on Edwards Newport (a.k.a. Big Newport) that their screen is between 70 and 75-feet. And I think that the Mann's Chinese (Hollywood) and Mann's Village (Westwood) have 70-ft. screens. These specs are from memory of newspaper ads and may vary. :)

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 9, 2004 at 1:24pm

Bill thanks for clarifying that. Hell I would love to see anything on even a 60ft screen in NY.

posted by Vincent on Jun 9, 2004 at 1:38pm

Rhett wrote: I would love to start some sort of organization to show 70MM flicks.

That would be a great organization. As you mentioned, money, contacts, etc. could be a "small" hurdle. Also, despite the number of new restorations of 70mm films, others seem to be hard to come by. There are some studios who will rent out 70mm prints to places like American Cinematheque. Columbia/Sony let them run a 70mm print of "Starman" in early 2002. It was in mint condition.

Rhett wrote: Oct. 2002 I saw the 40th Anniversary of Lawrence of Arabia.

Was the film a little grainy? The clips I've seen of this 40th Anniversary re-release were grainy/dupey.

Rhett: Around the World in 80 Days....it has been stated here that no 70MM prints were struck for it...but on the site in70mm.com there is a photo of the film showing on a screen?? Is this a 70MM print Bill??

My pal Thomas Hauerslev took that picture in 1995, but hasn't gotten back to me where it was shown. My guess is that the 70mm print was shown at Bradford, England, during one of their Widescreen Weekends. I'll post here with the definitive answer once I get it.

As far as I know, there was a 70mm print shown at a private screening in Los Angeles in 1999. I'll try to clarify that, too.

Vincent wrote: Hell I would love to see anything on even a 60ft screen in NY.

Perhaps the Loew's Jersey Theatre could, over time, get 70mm projection and show the restorations. As far as I know from postings on other sites devoted to film, I don't believe the theatre is yet equipped to show 70mm. Anybody know? I haven't found any references on their website as such.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 9, 2004 at 11:12pm

RE: Around The World In 80s Days photo at www.in70mm.com

The photo was taken in Norway.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 9, 2004 at 11:16pm

Bill....Well then America needs a 70MM ambassador to import these prints from Norway or Denmark or England or wherever all these 70mm prints are shown and bring them here. Geeze, they're all shown overseas!!

RE: Lawrence/Arabia 70mm print last year...was it grainey?? What I remember was I went to the 10:30am show and when the first frame hit the screen i went ...Whoa!! It was a great print

posted by rhett on Jun 10, 2004 at 5:31am

Re: Lawrence in 92 at the Ziegfeld - it looked fantastic to these jaded eyes.

Regarding the Loew's Jersey, they do not have 70mm gear. I'm hoping they can one day finish their restoration of the theatre and then work on getting 70mm gear up there, it would be a great place for the big epics (if the sound echo can be tamed a little).

Columbia has a number of 70mm titles available, probably more than any other studio. They are available for regular bookings to any theatre that has the 70mm projection equipment.

Pete Apruzzese
Director of Film Programming
Big Screen Classics at the Lafayette Theatre

posted by PeterApruzzese on Jun 10, 2004 at 6:03am

I saw Lawrence 3 times at the Ziegfeld in '92 and it looked magnificent(the print that is.The screen is still too small.) But then Lean, O'Toole and Sharif were there opening night and the theater gave it during the run the full deluxe road show treatment(without the reserved seats)including curtains and no commercials or coming attractions. The only thing better would have been to see it in the Criterion(which still existed pre Toys.)

Regarding the Loews Jersey the screen is too small for 70mm(50ft.) Considering the size of the theater the relatively narrow procenium cannot give widescreen its full splendor(its got a somewhat letterbox look) though it is okay for cinemascope and far preferable to seeing scope at the Film Forum which is a joke though they boast about presenting films in widescreen all the time(Bruce G. please find a theater worthy of your terrific programming skills.)

posted by Vincent on Jun 10, 2004 at 6:49am

I agree the screen at the Film Forum is too small but I'll give them this...they do care about the presentation. I guess (for me at least) it's just good to see the old classics on the big screen (even if the screen isn't that big) but they do score good prints.

But the panavision/cinemascope films there are on the small side and you have to sit closer to the screen. It never bothered me though.

Pete, is there a site for Columbia that has their available 70MM prints . I'd be curious to see what films are available??

posted by rhett on Jun 11, 2004 at 4:09am

Here's a list of 35mm/70mm prints that have been restored and shown in Los Angeles and in some other cities, as well. This is from the top of my head, so I might be missing a few titles. This list also includes some titles restored in the 1990s and re-struck prints.

Columbia/Sony:
Lord Jim (70mm)
Lawrence Of Arabia (70mm)
Funny Girl (35mm)
In Cold Blood (35mm)
Becket (35mm, to be shown or was recently shown at the Academy in Beverly Hills)
Bridge On The River Kwai (35mm)
Bye, Bye Birdie (35mm)

20th Century Fox
Patton (70mm)
The Sound Of Music (70mm)
Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines... (70mm)
Hello, Dolly! (70mm)

Disney
TRON (70mm)
Sleeping Beauty (70mm)
Swiss Family Robinson (35mm)
20000 Leagues Under The Sea (35mm)

Independent
Play Time (70mm)
Baraka (70mm)
This Is Cinerama (3-Strip Cinerama)

Universal
Spartacus (70mm)
Vertigo (70mm)

Warner Bros. and MGM
My Fair Lady (70mm)
Ryan's Daughter (70mm; special print straight from the 65mm negative)
2001: A Space Odyssey (70mm)
It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (70mm)
How The West Was Won (3-Strip Cinerama)

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 11, 2004 at 10:32am

It's a shame that Ny and NJ won't see these prints...thanks Bill

posted by rhett on Jun 12, 2004 at 6:14am

Rhett wrote: Well then America needs a 70MM ambassador to import these prints from Norway or Denmark or England or wherever all these 70mm prints are shown and bring them here. Geeze, they're all shown overseas!!

I think one of the reasons that we don't see more 70mm here in the States is that it can cost a pretty penny to ship those prints--plus you have to pay for insurance.

In England, they show a few films that we don't get to see, like "Earthquake" and "The Longest Day." But I guess I shouldn't complain--LA has been lucky to get what we've gotten! Considering commecial 5-perf 70mm is virtually done for, we've been spoiled to get all of those prints listed above. And there are more that were shown in Hollywood since 1999. Heck, even the recent "Godzilla" ran in 70mm-DTS.

As a gentleman mentioned before, the AFI in Silver Springs looks to be the best bet for East Coast film fans to see films like these I listed above. If I recall, the AFI in Silver Springs even ran "Day Of Thunder" in 70mm. He also mentioned that "War And Peace" ran there. It ran at the American Cinematheque. Unfortunately, and I regret this, I decided not to see it--too long. Well that was a dumb decision! My collaborator, Mike Coate, saw it and said it was awesome.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 12, 2004 at 4:30pm

Damn the price and the cost!!!! If they can pay to make crummy films they can fork over the cash to restore and show the classics...As you can see, I understand the cost of things and such...but while I can accept it (kicking and screaming of course) I don't have to like it...I guess it's time to move to LA..

posted by rhett on Jun 13, 2004 at 7:40am

No one has made mention of the brave move Ron Howard made in filming "Far and Away" in 70mm with 6 track mag sound.That may have been the last movie filmed in 70. The recent re-release of "Vertigo"
was shown in 70, transfered from the original VistaVision neg, but
The sound was DTS 6 track rather than 6 track mag.

posted by vito on Jun 13, 2004 at 12:32pm

Mikeoaklandpark asked about the two curtains at the Ziegfeld. The last time I was there ("The Day After Tomorrow"), the advertising slides were up on the exposed screen. But just before the movie began, they closed the two curtains, then opened them right up again. If you got 'em, might as well use 'em.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jun 13, 2004 at 5:24pm

yeah but that's doesn't make any sense they've been doing that since Clearview took over showing slides on the exposed screen then closeing the curtains for 2-4 seconds what's the use. They should go back to the old policy the way they used to do when Walter Reade then cineplex oden owned the property.

posted by savage on Jun 14, 2004 at 9:03am

posted by savage on Jun 14, 2004 at 9:05am

Thanks Savage. The slides are ok except when you go to the movies every week, they get boring seeing hte same slides over and over. That is really stupid to close the curtains for a few seconds. That hteater had such class. I think I read in here that the Beekman still uses the curtains and no slides.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jun 14, 2004 at 10:42am

The Beekman doesn't use slides they use curtains as does this theatre (the Astor Plaza) the Loew's Tower East shows slides, but on occasion closes theirs and I think the Paris does but these I think are the only ones left that do it this feature is not that important to some patrons but for nostalgic reasons it's important to me. Also A lot of moviehouses in Manhattan are switching to digital rolling marquees.like Chelsea theatres, most of the Loew's theatres like the 84thst 34th street Kips Bay and the most recent conversion the E-walk United Artists(regal Cinemas) followed suit with thier Union Sq 14 and thier Astoria Multiplex in Queens I guess the Astor Plz. would've done the same thing if it weren't closing.

posted by savage on Jun 14, 2004 at 4:05pm

Vito wrote: No one has made mention of the brave move Ron Howard made in filming "Far and Away" in 70mm with 6 track mag sound.

"Far And Away," though not a great movie by any means, does have some spectacular 70mm type moments during the Oklahoma land rush scenes. And you're correct, Vito, that it was a brave move by Ron Howard to shoot in 65mm, though, I think it was at the urging of the DP, Mikael Soloman (spelling might be off).

I'm sort of surprised this film and Sony's "Hamlet" (1996) haven't seen screenings here in the States. Perhaps "Far And Away" might be appreciated better today than in 1992. As for "Hamlet," it's a very good film and deserved a better release in 1996. It was shown in Los Angeles at the Royal on a rather small screen, then at Edwards Big Newport in Newport Beach, CA. Huge screen, but I felt the print was underserved by dim projection there.

I believe that "Hamlet" was shown at the Paris in Manhattan.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 14, 2004 at 9:53pm

Good point bill, I believe Ron Howard was inspired to film "Far and Away in 65mm after screening a print of "How the west was Won"

posted by vito on Jun 15, 2004 at 3:24am

I hate those digital rolling marquees. I hate all these new modern things they have come up with. It really stinks. No more 70mm films, slide, rolling marquees. I have a lot of nostalgic memories of movie theaters.I would give anything to be able to go to the Astor Plaza one more time before they close.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jun 15, 2004 at 4:42am

Mike I to as well hate all these new and modern things they come up with it sure takes away from the former movie going experience. I think someone mentioned earlier that this theatre will close as the summer ends somewhere around August or so maybe they will play a good movie there or have a retrospective series there like the Baronet/Coronet did. before they closed thanking moviegoers for their many years of patronage. Retospective featureing the many high profiled films that played there such as the "Star Wars", trilogy "Scarface", and the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" trilogy that would be great.

posted by savage on Jun 15, 2004 at 6:32am

I think we can all wait till hell freezes over before the Astor Plaza plays a goodbye retrospective series. The reason...so MTV can get started on destroying it for more studios so the dunces there can get started on more idiotic programming for today's idiotic youth market.

I wish the people who own the theater would review this site and see there are actually people who care about the movie experience and a great theater...but, I don't think they would care anyway as the people who run the theaters these days are as idiotic as the movies they make.

What can we do here to give the Astor Plaza a proper sendoff?? Is there anyone in here with connections to get something started? or are we all working on pipe dreams??

posted by rhett on Jun 16, 2004 at 4:26am

Rhett I'm in total agreement of your statement from start to finish. the people who run this theatre cater to the idiotic youth market I'm trying to get there to see this cinemas last film but as much as I love this theatre and hate the fact that it will close by summers end I refuse to pay these astronomical prices to see these idoitic films today. I mean what's the price today for a movie $10.25 or $10.50. and the films are to long and not interesting at all. Maybe the powers that be or anyone responsible for programing or booking if you will would look at this site and yes see that there is actually people who do actually care about the moviegoing experience. Idunnno, wishful thinking.

posted by savage on Jun 16, 2004 at 6:13am

With all the reviews about the new "80 Days" it is pointed out that the original is considered the most unworthy film to win a best picture Oscar. I guess they've never seen Rocky or Ordinary People.

posted by Vincent on Jun 17, 2004 at 7:34am

I agree with Rhett that we should do something. Loews Cineplex has a web site and maybe we should all contact them to try and save this theater. I do find that most companies lie. United Artist lied to me a few years ago about the Sameric theater in Phila. They told me the owners didn't renew the lease and as it turns out, United Artist pulled out.If anybody knows how to start and online petition I would be willing to help out.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jun 17, 2004 at 11:04am

Vincent...I'm assuming that if I saw 80 Days on the big screen I might feel differently about it as entertainment, but as of now considering what else was nominated in 1956 (Giant, 10 Commandments)it was the inferior film. I'm going to have to buy the DVD to get a new perspective on this flick..DVD can do that....Now to say Rocky and Ordinary People are underserving of Best Pic?? I strongly disagree but, that's another chat I guess, to each his own..but, I was a teen during the 70's and Rocky had a HUGE influence on me...now if you want to start a new chat over undeserving Best Picture Winners...I'd nominate, English patient, Shakespeare in Love (It beat Pvt. Ryan?)the biggestoversite in Oscar history...but getting off track here..

Mike, it would be great if we could band and start our own group to play 70MM flicks.....anyone here got any ideas...maybe it's time to put our money where our mouths are (although, money is kindof out)..but there seems to be alot of experts and veterans in here that know alot....suggestions??

posted by rhett on Jun 18, 2004 at 6:50am

I think either All The President's Men or Network should have been the Best Pic winner in 1976. Rocky is not in the same class as those films. I would agree with Giant or 10 Commandments over 80 Days but I could understand them picking 80 Days as a Best Picture winner. It's a fun picture.

posted by YankeeMike on Jun 18, 2004 at 8:34am

Mikeoaklandpark wrote: If anybody knows how to start and online petition I would be willing to help out.

Has anyone in this newsgroup started one for the Astor Plaza? I'd be willing to start one.

In regards to "Eighty Days" winning Best Picture: One of the reviewers in the Los Angeles Times gave the new "80 Days" a raving review, while scathing the 1956 film. I don't have the article in front of me as I write this, but she essentially called it overblown.

I think if this interviewer saw it in 1956 in Todd-AO at 30fps, she would've been impressed and very entertained. There are certain films that seem to play well only on the big screen, and this is one of them. Imagine seeing this widescreen film with all of the world locations Mike Todd took audiences to, a lighthearted story, and the cameos, I think she'd be one of the millions who saw this film and came away with a smile on her face. It was a film of its time.

Perhaps if Warner Bros. found it somehow financially feasible to produce a restoration for 70mm projection (30fps), audiences might get a kick out of seeing it properly. Heck, even "Hello, Dolly!" was very popular during its recent run here in Los Angeles. That's a film I couldn't sit through on television, but on the big screen in 70mm, it's a lot of fun. Just seeing Walter Matthew ham it up and the cameo of Louis Armstrong is worth seeing this film. Even Babs is entertaining in this film.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 18, 2004 at 11:12am

In regards to "Mr. Matthau," my apologies for misspelling his name!

posted by Bill Kallay on Jun 18, 2004 at 11:16am

I don't like the movie Dolly very much (I wish Donen had directed it. Kelly wasn't much good by himself as a director) but the production design is stupendous. Yes seeing a movie in 70mm makes a helluva difference.

For you New Yorkers reading this site how about starting a widescreen film club. What do you guys and gals think? This way even recent widescreen films would not be consigned to DVDs(and whatever comes next) for ever.
Our Mottos
SIZE DOES MATTER
1:35 Take it Away!
3 Strip Cinerama Lives!
There's 70mm In Your Future

posted by Vincent on Jun 18, 2004 at 2:04pm

I thought Hello Dolly was a flawed film but I still liked it on the Big Screen. I saw it in 1969 at Grauman's Chinese. The movie cost 26 million back in 1969 the most expensive Musical up to that time. The Production Values were great and the Hello Dolly Street set at 20Th Century-Fox was one of the largest ever built. The movie was nominated for Best Picture but lost to Midnight Cowboy which reprsented the new Hollywood.brucec

posted by brucec on Jun 18, 2004 at 10:57pm

August 5th is the last day.

I've been going here for every film since Van Helsing since I heard the news. Spider-Man 2 was fun with the audience. I've been spending some time looking around the theater.

So it's definitely August 5th, according to the staff there. That's less than a month. Most likely Spider-Man will still be there and there will be one final show, and then it's gone. One of the last two Times Square theaters, and one of the last two large single-screen theaters left in Manhattan.

A sad day in New York it will be.

posted by Shade on Jul 3, 2004 at 1:44am

Good grief.

posted by saps on Jul 3, 2004 at 7:09am

Vincent.....I'm IN. A Widescreen film club...OK, so how about some kind of outline/ideas to get it started and what is the purpose...everyone here can have input!!!

Re: Aug. 5th. I guess it's time to get to the Astor with our cameras and say goodbye.

posted by rhett on Jul 3, 2004 at 7:36am

At the closing of the Astor Plaza, they should turn out all the lights on Broadway and observe a minute of silence. Perhaps Mayor Bloomberg could arrange to move the theatre to the basement of his new tower on Lexington Avenue, between 59th & 58th Streets. The site was once supposed to be used for the Roxy Mansion Theatre, which never got built due to William Fox's bankruptcy and the advent of the Depression.

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 3, 2004 at 7:40am

It's truly sad that major companies like Viacom or ABC/Disney can't pick a different location to build their offices. Why must great movie theaters be picked on? Probably the size of the building, but there must be a hundred different places to put their offices in Manhattan.

We just recently (from what I've heard) lost the Century Plaza Theaters in Century City (Los Angeles) to a major office building. The Shubert Theater (live theater) was also taken in the demolition. The new office building will house the new headquarters for CAA.

The Century Plaza was a great theater. Though I had not been to the theater before one of the two original auditoriums was split (though actually nicely done), it was a nice theater with great projection, comfortable seats and excellent HPS-4000 Sound. From what I hear, Astor Plaza is very similar in design.

We also had the sister theater to the entury Plaza, Orange City Center. This was originally a two screener that featured 70mm projection. This is where I saw "Star Wars" in 1977. In 1985, the main large theater was split into three screens. The end result were two dinky auditoriums and a main auditorium with terrible sightlines.

I know that some feel that so-called "luxury" theaters built after the golden age of the movie palaces pale in comparison, but I feel that they were nice, too. You got a fairly large auditorium with state-of-the-art projection and sound (which I still think trumps today's current "state-of-the-art" presentation for the most part). True, these kind of theaters weren't always as ornate as their older siblings, but you normally got a much better presentation than almost any theater around town.

Today, almost every movie presentation (if you can call it that anymore) and almost every megaplex is built from a cookie cutter. I kind of crack up at some new theaters that build "historical" marquees above their auditorium entrances and name certain auditoriums after classic and demolished movie theaters. Can you imagine 30-50 years from now going to a movie complex and seeing a fake marquee for the auditorium that says "AMC Empire 30 minus 29," or "Crackerbox Auditorium: This auditorium is patterned after the classic crackbox stadium auditoriums of the mid-late 90's. Enjoy the show."

posted by Bill Kallay on Jul 3, 2004 at 11:01am

Dang typo! The "We also had the sister theater to 'entury Plaza'" paragraph should read "We also had the sister theater to Century Plaza."

posted by Bill Kallay on Jul 3, 2004 at 11:05am

Dang typo again! The last sentence should read "crackerbox," not crackbox! :) I need my coffee.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jul 3, 2004 at 11:07am

Why can't they build theatres along with the office buildings? The Times Square Paramount Theatre was attached to the Paramount Building, which was world HQ for Paramount Pictures Corporation. And Loew's State adjoined 1540 Broadway, the office tower that was world HQ for Loew's Inc. RKO Theatres, which ran Radio City Music Hall and the New Roxy (later Center) when they first opened, had its HQ in the Rockefeller Center building at 1270 Sixth Avenue.

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 3, 2004 at 1:19pm

posted by MikeRadio on Jul 3, 2004 at 5:49pm

Warren wrote: Why can't they build theatres along with the office buildings?

I believe the National General/Mann National (now Good Morning America's Times Square office) was built as a part of an office development, too.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jul 4, 2004 at 12:38pm

The National was part of an office building, but I don't think that the theatre's owners actually had space there. Mann/National Theates was based in Los Angeles, if I recall correctly.

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 4, 2004 at 3:42pm

Mann Theatres is currently headquartered in Colorado. I believe the chain is 50-50 owned by Paramount and Warner Bros., although I could be wrong...

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jul 4, 2004 at 11:16pm

We all think alike here...but unfortunately guys, we arethe minority...Why don't they build there office buildings elsewhere??? We are dealing with business people who care nothing about old theaters, The Astor Plaza, Ziegfeld, etc. They will build cruddy multiplex after multiplex, if it means getting butts in the seats to make the almighty dollar...no matter how many crappy films there are out there.

Aside from the execs screwing everything up...have you ever talked to patrons themselves....they could care less...most don't know the difference between 70MM and VHS slowspeed playback...they don't care,just show the flick and let me eat my 8 dollar popcorn is their motto. Why does Scooby Doo make 50 million opening weekend??? Because a family of 4 will spend $9 admission plus $30 for all the snacks. That's what these businessmen care about. Not whether the curtain opens, or what frame it is shown in or how many FPS. or Dolby, DTS, 6-Track or single speaker mono. Just see the movie, eat your friggin pocorn, then get out and make room for the next crowd.

The only great theater that would come , is if we all here opened one and ran it ourselves. But, we'd probably go out of business because let's face it....how many shows of Around the World in 80 days in 70MM would be profitiable anyway after 1 show.

Passion and love for movies is great, we all have it, but, unfortunately the almighty dollar would beat us down....which once again is why all these great theaters will close so the teens could have another haven of small minded ignorance to drain cash out of.

It's sad. But regardless, my passion is still there . I guess I'll have to keep it there. Right now on TV they're raving about Spiderman2 (look at the money it made) how real the effects were (are they kidding)In a month, it's yesterday's news, making room for the next one, by Thanksgiving it's on DVD. Cash cash cash. 30 years from now, I doubt that there'll be a younger version of us here, pushing for a 35MM re-release.

Keep the faith guys.
Rhett

posted by rhett on Jul 5, 2004 at 5:55am

On Saturday morning I went to the Astor Plaza for what looks like the last time, to see Spider-Man 2. I sat in the balcony to get the full effect of that huge expanse of seats in front of me. And when the credits were over, I stayed to watch the curtains close on the last big single-theater screen in Times Square. It was as if the curtains were closing on a part of New York movie history. Now the Ziegfeld is literally the last of a dying breed, and more precious than ever.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 5, 2004 at 7:47pm

Bill's comment said it well. Curtains, missing now from our theatres, for me added to the granduer of the movie going experience. When I worked as a projectionist during the 50s and 60s, we always closed the curtains at the end of whatever preceeded the main feature, (cartoon, tralilers etc), and reopened them at the start of the feature, most imes the stage lights were also raised and then lowered again. THAT was showmanship. The showing of a white screen was not permitted, as well as showing the screen masking moving going from one format to another, it was timed so that the curtains hid the movement of the masking. The audience never saw the masking move or a white (blank)screen.In addition the curtains had to be timed, thru the use of a cue mark on the film, to be fully closed at the same moment the movie faded out.

posted by vito on Jul 6, 2004 at 4:20am

Saw Spider-Man 2 at this theatre yesterday. Will really miss that big red curtain that openend and closed before and after the show. Much better than seeing a slideshow. I hope something else plays there before Aug. 5 so I can make one more trip to this great theatre.

posted by YankeeMike on Jul 6, 2004 at 5:24am

I agree with YankeeMike, especially if they pay tribute to the height of this theater's glory days and show the original "Star Wars".

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 6, 2004 at 7:39am

Vito: thanks for always putting on the best possible show at the theaters you worked in. Wouldn't it be great if today's theater owners and projectionists showed the same kind of dedication that you did?

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 6, 2004 at 8:11am

(Heavy Sigh). I always feel like the bad guy who attempts to introduce a reality check into the conversation. Please understand that I love old (and big, and single-screeen and neighborhood) theaters as much as everyone, but I also understand the realities. So often on this wonderful site I see comments such as "I was only there once" or "Maybe I should go take a look before they close it down." The reality is that there are rock-solid business reasons that we have lost these treasures. Everything from television to video to no parking to no maintenance to changing cities and horrible maintenance. But it's good to remember that all of us are part of the reason for the changes. We stay home and watch TV --- we move to the suburbs --- we sit in front of our computers bemoaning the changes. Yes, we ought to work to save history, but it does no good to criticize business for not keeping a 2,000-seat theater open for 20 of us to watch a film. And it does no good to criticize today's non-filmgoers or (worse) filmgoers for their habits.

posted by AndyT on Jul 6, 2004 at 10:01am

The lack of curtain presentation has certainly degraded the filmgoing experience, in my opinion. The use of curtains adds a sense, at least for me, of anticipation. When is the show going to begin? I hope the movie is going to be good. Is the movie going to be shown on a wide screen or a little screen (as I used to think as a kid.) It can also make a mediocre theater seem more grand than it really is.

Slideshows and "radio theater networks" have really helped degrade the movie experience. My earliest memory of this is from going to any AMC theater around Southern California. The theater seemed cheap compared to the luxury theaters around my area. Yet, they charged almost the same ticket price for a movie. I would walk into a tiny auditorium and be greeted by slides of local businesses. Then came the radio networks playing songs you could hear at almost any moment on your car radio--for free. Then not to mention the ads for the Los Angeles Times.

Vito, you made a good point about the curtain presentation. Showmanship. That's what makes going to the movies even more special. I credit projectionists who can make the show great.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jul 6, 2004 at 10:09am

The AMC Empire on 42st does the same thing. Slide shows, rock music and lots of commercials! The way they raise the ticket prices every 6 months (The AMC is now $10.50) you would think they could stop playing the same irratating commercials.

posted by YankeeMike on Jul 6, 2004 at 10:55am

I agree with the comments about theaters using curtains and about AMC theaters. We don't have any AMC here in Asheville, NC and I am glad becuase all there commercials really suck. We have AMC in Ft. Lauderdale, but don't go there very often. In Ft.Lauderdale, we have an independant chain called Sunrise Cinemas. (www.sunrisecinemas.com)
Even though they still use slides, the theaters are great. They still use real butter on popcorn which brings me back to a child.Vito broght me back to my childhood when he mentioned about the use of the curtains in the 60's. I rememebr that they closed the curtains after the toons and previews and being fascinated by not
being able to see the masking move. In those days most theaters had that opened across and also masking that came down when a film was
shown in cinemascope.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 6, 2004 at 1:35pm

Sorry about the spaces and typo's. I tried to preview what I was sending and it only messed it up.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 6, 2004 at 1:36pm

I think that the skill of presentation has certainly been lost in the the new era, and curtains are just one example, nevermind having the picture in frame and focused. As far as the slides and advertisements though, they are such an easy source of revenue for a theater that there is too much of a temptation. Especially for a neighborhood theater! My theater has slides and we will soon be getting the rolling stock (as the ads are called) and believe me, I wish we didn't have to do this, but as a second-run venue, we need the income! As Andy said above, I myself have so many customers that 'love' the theater but the exclamation of love is so often followed by "I haven't been here for years". We are totally at the mercy of the film distributors and the first run theaters. We recently screened "Grapes of Wrath" with two classic cartoons as part of our 90th anniversary celebration, in our classic theater. We only charged a dollar (!!!), got some free press, put out ads, and still only got about 200 people! Print rental was $275, plus shipping, publicity, etc. And don't get me started about the quality of the print they sent out, P.U. But regardless of even that, it was still fun. Fun but not profitable! You do the math! It is incredibly difficult to operate a theater today.

posted by Ian M. Judge on Jul 6, 2004 at 7:45pm

Re: AndyT's statement.

While there are sound business reasons why theaters are run by cashcows and not people who treasure the moviegoing experience, it doesn't mean we have to like it.

For you to say we our all the reasons why theaters do what they do. yes , I agree. But, to think about, the reason we all stopped going to the theaters and stayed home and watched home video is because the theaters gradually declined in their quality. I'm not just talking about the movies. There were alot of bad films in the 40's, 50's, 70's etc. But theaters,are run by idiots. That is Bad Business. When you pay admission, you expect a quality product. So yes, after you shelled out money to get a bad product (meaning theater quality) you decide to stop coming.

How bout starting a NEW chat as to why we all stopped going to the theaters. What we all wax on about here Andy, is the time when theaters were run by theater people. My first job was an usher in the 70's. I had to stand a post, chase out smokers, keep the noisemakers quiet and makesure the film was always a quality showing. There wasn't an out=of-focus, poorframed, un-climated controlled film on my watch.

Today. you leave your seat (missing 5 minutes of the flick) to walk across a multiplex city to flag down some kid to tell the asleep projectionist to frame the friggin film. I don't pay for that, nor should anyone.

You know Andy? "If you build it they will come"...they haven't, but we still do cause we have nothing else. So we bitch and moan on this site about the way things are done. The right way. Unfortunately (and this is where I see your point)the right way doesn't put money in wallets, especially when the way things are done today is...the wrong way.

posted by rhett on Jul 7, 2004 at 5:57am

(split comment from above --- sorry). . . . as long as we define success as something realistic. The only real hope in saving the treasures is a few . . . here and there . . . as examples. We are highly unlikely to see a huge glitzy cinema in a city center playing great films to thousands of moviegoers. It's just a different world --- complete with the idiots running the multiplexes. By the way, I'll still be there --- all the screens in all the multiplexes are larger than anything I can have at home. The sound is better and it gets me out of the house.

posted by AndyT on Jul 8, 2004 at 8:30am

August 5th is the official date of the closing of this theater the Loews Astor Plaza, my fiancee is on the management team there so this has been common knowledge for awhile.....unfortunately, the Loews State will follow in August 2005 when their lease is up with Bertelsmann (BMG parent) and thats it...Virgin Megastore will probably expand to 4 levels from its current 3 and thats it

posted by JSM on Jul 9, 2004 at 6:59pm

JSM....does your fiancee know if there'll be any other program for the finale other than Spiderman2???

posted by rhett on Jul 10, 2004 at 5:58am

at this point, no. it looks like they are going to keep Spider Man 2 and drain every cent out of theatergoers who love the series until they close their doors forever on 8/5

posted by JSM on Jul 10, 2004 at 3:25pm

Too bad...The Astor is going out.....not with a bang, but a whimper. I'll have to go there with my camera one last time.

posted by rhett on Jul 11, 2004 at 7:16am

Sorry I can't join you guys bemoaning the fate of the Astor Plaza.
Especially since I'm still mourning the loss of the Astor Hotel, one of New York's truly great buildings, which it replaced!

As I've said before I remember being a little boy in '68 and looking into the gaping whole where this theater was about to be built while literally across the street Funny Girl was playing at the Criterion in the last hurrah of first class roadshow presentation. That being said I will go one more time because maybe I have missed something.

Anyway the Murnau festival will be at Film Forum so you all have something to look forward to!

posted by Vincent on Jul 13, 2004 at 2:36pm

This is terrible, the loss of that huge screen and comfortable theatre. By current standards, it is a treasure. I wish I'd read all this before seeing Spider-Man 2. Maybe I'll go see it again. If I don't, I'll regret it. My two favorite Astor Plaza experiences: the magnificently restored "Wizard of Oz" back around '97 or so (I'd never seen color like that on film) and the breath-taking "Apocalypse Now Redux," another one of the best-looking films I've ever seen.

Camden

posted by Camden on Jul 14, 2004 at 7:54pm

Height: 730 ft (223 m)
Floors: 54
Erected: 1970
Architects: Ely J. Kahn and Der Scutt
Major tenant: Viacom

posted by SNWEB.ORG on Jul 14, 2004 at 10:12pm

Camden, I saw Apocalypse there also. While I thought it was a great presentation, I had the Ziegfeld experience from 1979 too imbedded in my mind. Believe it or not, I was awed when I saw Redux a 2nd time, at the Imax screen at Lincloln Square.

But I had a bunch of great Astor Plaza experiences. I was fortunate to see 2001 in Dec. 01 , a re-release. it was great. The only problem was that they didn't really publicize it and it played to a pretty empty house. Lucky me though, I brought my camera that day and took a few pics of the outside marquee.

But what was really great was the 25th Anniversary showing of The Godfather in 97. Man, that was something. A packed house, seeing on a huge screen with digital surround sound made it an awesome experience. Marlon ruled. Once again, it's a damn shame the Astor is closing.

posted by rhett on Jul 15, 2004 at 6:11am

There is an article in the NY Times today about the closing of Astor Plaza.

It also mentions cinematreasures.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/15/nyregion/15astor.html?ex=1090887724&ei=1&en=01a696bc540e788e

posted by John Cucchiara on Jul 15, 2004 at 8:29am

make way for the music, but at least it will remain a theater venue in Times Square. Maybe they'll keep the screen for special movie events.

posted by philipgoldberg on Jul 15, 2004 at 9:57am

I wish I still lived in NYC. I would organize a protest group. Loews operates an old theater in downtown Chicago called the Esquire. It has six screens. I certainly hope they don't let this theater go too. Maybe with the Astor plaza closing, Loews State will get better films for there last year in operation. I also am not sure why Loews closed the 34th St Showplace. It opened in the early 80's and was one of there newest theaters. It didn't seem to last a long time.
I did find a great little art deco theater here in Asheville, NC that still use curtains instead of slides. I wrote the theater owner to try and get it added to cineam treasures. If you want to check out there web site it is www.fineartstheater.com

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 15, 2004 at 10:41am

Does anybody know if the Eastside playhouse on 55th street is also closed/ I know it is not on the web site for City Cinemas anymore. When I lived in NYC it was run by United Artists. I saw Annie Hall there.If this theater is also closed that really puts a dent in the eastside. Gone is the Coronet,59th St East,Gotham(originally Trans Lux)Manhattan Twin, 68th St Playhouse. This really stinks. I guess the Sutton and Cinema 123 will be next.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 15, 2004 at 10:45am

Thanks for a sprawling and engrossing thread! My Astor Plaza memories include the usual suspects (Star Wars, Superman, Raiders, press screening of Altered States, Explorers, Under Fire, 2001 screening of 2001 sans intermission), some forgettables (Brewsters Millions), and some oddities (late 70s reissue of Fiddler on the Roof that had songs cut out). There should definitely be a 70mm festival as a swan song.

Bill & Rhett: Sadly I recently tossed out a bunch of '70s and '80s Dolby-related papers and ads from NY/NJ, but contact me if you can trust my memory on some 70mm engagements. morgands1@aol.com

posted by DavidMorgan on Jul 15, 2004 at 12:15pm

So they're turning it into an enormous rock concert venue? As someone noted a moment ago, I guess that means they'll be more or less keeping it as a theatre, which is very good news and almost a happy ending (almost). If the bands are good enough and some of the ticket prices are low and accessible, it might not be a complete disaster after all. I wouldn't think that much renovation would be necessary, but I guess it's mostly a matter of muffling the din. Despite their similarities in size, this theatre has a totally different feel from the Ziegfeld, strangely. Has anyone done any speculating about why it is that theatres, that are essentially the same sort of thing, can feel so utterly different from theatre to theatre, even when their sizes are almost identical? The pitch of the seats and the method of entry and the lobby and everything else has an enormous cumulative effect.

The article in today's NY Times is excellent, by the way, so be sure to check the link a few entries back.

Camden

posted by Camden on Jul 15, 2004 at 7:05pm

I saw "For Pete Sake" at the Astor Plaza when it opened in 1974.I thought it was a nice modern theatre at the time but no way came even close to the Rivoli,Criterion,Warner,State,Capitol,Paramount and Roxy. In fact the ugliest legit theatre on broadway the "Minskoff" is located in the same building as the Astor Plaza.I still can't get over the fact that NYC let the "Hotel Astor" be demolished for this ugly skyskraper.Remember the ugly Madison Square Garden replaced the Pennsylvania Train Station which NY has never recovered from.I do understand the love for the big screen and the "Astor Plaza" and the "Ziegfeld" are all that is left.The era of the megaplex is here,but what I don't understand is the lack of imagination going into the building of many of these megaplex theatres. They want so much to be the modern day movie palace and some do a better job than others. Thank god many of our beloved movie palaces have found life as Performing Art Centers. When I lived in LA they use to rate the 10 best places to see a movie and most were single screens.Why can't the theatre owners use an Egyptian,Mayan,French,Italian, theme throughout the megaplex including the auditoriums. I find more thought has gone into the Lobby than the auditoriums. Lucky for me I am still able to go to a first run movie palace where I first saw "Ben Hur" as a reserved seat attraction back in 1959 and saw "Troy" in 2004.brucec

posted by brucec on Jul 15, 2004 at 10:04pm

Name that theater, Bruce!

posted by saps on Jul 15, 2004 at 10:45pm

good article of the sendoff..but, WILL there be a final hurrah as faintly implied in the article....if anyone finds out...give a big shout out... I will venture there next week to see Spiderman 2 and make my final visit....with camera in hand..

posted by rhett on Jul 16, 2004 at 7:07am

No word on any special event send-off screenings, but the final, wide-release booking for the Astor Plaza is official: M. Night Shyamalan's 'The Village' is opening there next Friday, the 30th. It's also, to absolutely no surprise, opening at the 42nd Street E-Walk and, to something of a surprise, the Lincoln Plaza Cinemas, among other Manhattan locales.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jul 19, 2004 at 11:14am

I forgot to name the theatre where I saw "Ben Hur" as a reserved seat roadwhow attraction back in 1959 when I was 7 years old and recently saw "Troy" in 2004. The theatre in question is the Grand Lake Theatre on Grand Ave in Oakland Calif. I moved out of the Bay Area in the late 1970'S and moved back in 2003.The Grand Lake is rated by a poll in the local newpapers as the best theatre to see a movie in the East Bay. They even play the organ on Fri/Sat/Sun.brucec

posted by brucec on Jul 19, 2004 at 12:38pm

It really upsets me that Loews has to also open this film at the E Walk. It is one week, they could have had the Astor Plaza go out in glory with an exclusive showing. Loews Cineplex corp really sucks.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 19, 2004 at 12:41pm

You won't have to worry about the Loews Cineplex corp for long...

Since they were purchased by a conglomerate... including the Carlyle Group...

Those who say Fahrenheit 9/11 will be familiar with that company.

posted by John Cucchiara on Jul 19, 2004 at 1:23pm

John
I had not heard that Loews Cineplex was purchased. Maybe that is good news. Maybe Loews State will survive next year.
Is the company planning on changing the name or will they continue to use Loews Cineplex?

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 20, 2004 at 5:09am

If the Loew's State Theatre was a 6-10 screen plex, it would have a better chance of surviving. Any theatre lower than 6 screens, would have a problem. Unless they signed a lower rent long term lease when they opened the theatre. Loew's is not putting any money into that house. Just stand across the street from it. Half the neon signage is out and the electric marquee has not been running too. The TV's that once played trailers for the movie at the theatre, is now playing what Virgin plays on the screens in the store. If the theatre was a real money maker for the company, it would stay. Look at the Worldwide Theatre that Cineplex opened on 50th between 8th & 9th Ave.. It opened as a first run house and finished a bargain house, like the State Theatre will soon do.

posted by William on Jul 20, 2004 at 9:00am

I agree with you William. I think the last theater along broadway will be gone next year. Having it in the basement the way it is doesn't add any appeal to having people support the theater.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 20, 2004 at 10:35am

Here is a link to an article about the purchase of Loew's:

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2004/06/21/daily4.html

posted by John Cucchiara on Jul 20, 2004 at 1:30pm

It looks like the last premiere to take place at the Astor Plaza will be Spike Lee's new film "She Hate Me". Because the marquee had a new artcraft marquee signage on it yesterday afternoon (July 20th).

posted by William on Jul 21, 2004 at 8:40am

It would have to be a film I'm not the slightest bit interested in seeing.

posted by Camden on Jul 21, 2004 at 9:11am

Will they screen For Pete's Sake as a farewell, with 1974 prices? The movie is still pretty funny, and it would be a good send off after 30 years of service.

posted by saps on Jul 21, 2004 at 10:25pm

Spike's new film "She Hate Me" just premiered there. The Astor Plaza ended with a bang. To have a Spike Lee joint premiering, that's big.

posted by Jon Marin on Jul 23, 2004 at 10:55pm

Please. Be serious. Those 1400 (if they filled up) will be the biggest audience he gets.

posted by saps on Jul 23, 2004 at 11:59pm

Remember here in New York, people love free things.

posted by William on Jul 24, 2004 at 7:20am

I have heard rumbles also about Loews closing 72nd Street East.
Can anyone comfirm this?

posted by mike hoyts on Jul 24, 2004 at 12:08pm

It looks like the last picture to play the Astor Plaza will be The Village. I am not sure why they are putting in a new movie for the last week. They would have been better to show some of there classic premiere films like For Pete's Sake, Star Wars, Raiders. I am glad that Spike Lee's new film ISN'T going to be there. This theater need to go out in style and class and Spike Lee has neither.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 25, 2004 at 1:27pm

As a James Bond fan, I remember the five 007 films that played at the Astor Plaza.
A View To A Kill, The Living Daylights, Licence to Kill, The World is Not Enough, Die Another Day

posted by tmq840 on Jul 26, 2004 at 6:27pm

The 72nd St is supposed to be getting re-seated with seats from the Astor.

posted by dave-bronx on Jul 26, 2004 at 6:38pm

The 72nd St is supposed to be getting re-seated with seats removed from the Astor.

posted by dave-bronx on Jul 26, 2004 at 6:39pm

Here is a link to an interesting Reuters article 7/26/04 about the closing of Astor Plaza, and others in the area.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=801&e=2&u=/nm/20040726/stage_nm/stage_osborne_dc

posted by saps on Jul 26, 2004 at 9:49pm

Dave-Bronx,

Where did you get the information about the seats?

That is interesting.. the Astor has great seats...

posted by John Cucchiara on Jul 27, 2004 at 11:03am

To close the theater how about a festival of movies from the grammatically challenged Spike Lee?

posted by Vincent on Jul 27, 2004 at 11:08am

Has the Ziegfeld closed? The Reuters article fails to mention it. Curiously, the author of the article, Robert Osborne, resides on West 57th Street, only a few blocks from the Ziegfeld.

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 27, 2004 at 11:15am

Ziegfeld is still open. The article deals with theaters in the Time Square area.

posted by mhvbear on Jul 27, 2004 at 11:21am

And on Broadway. If Loew's and AMC had not built those large plexes on 42nd Street. The Times Square Theatres like the Astor Plaza and Criterion and the Embassy Tri-plex would have had a chance to survive for a few more years.

posted by William on Jul 27, 2004 at 12:21pm

I would certainly consider the Ziegfeld part of the midtown theatre district, even if it's not technically on Broadway or Times Square. Major movie companies use it for screenings because of its location in the heart of things.

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 27, 2004 at 1:08pm

Well, I did my part for the group, left my dwelling in rainsoaked NJ and ventured into NYC to the Astor Plaza possibly for the final time (unless I go to The Village next week) to see Spiderman 2. There was about 15 people in the audience and 2 people working. The person who tore my ticket was blank and unfriendly and didn't even say "thank you enjoy the show"...but I guess I understand as she will be without a job as of next week.

I have to say the presentation (of the movie) was great. Good projection, excellent digital sound, large screen. I actually liked the movie, but it took me a long while before I got into it as I kept reminicsing about previous films and picturing the ones I never saw there (star wars etc).

My digital camera crapped out on me but maybe I'll go again next week, maybe not. It's a good theatre. The line outside was for MTV's TRL show featuring some rapper. I'm sure the Astor Plaza will now guarantee tha tall the teens will get a seat now.

The Astor Plaza is going going gone. Time to say goodbye. In a few years there will be practically no single screen theaters left in the east Coast, save a few. We all have to savor our memories. Thank god (for me at least) for the Lafayette Theater in Suffern NY. In Sept. They're having a Sci-Fi fest. (Them, 2001, Planet of Apes etc) and then they start the new series(Caine Mutiny,Gunga Din, Sting etc.) Single screen, Wurlitzer organ, curtains, a good expereince all. A theater like that can be saved, but the Astor Plaza owned by a corporation must face it's end to please the teens. At least it didn't go out with Catwoman.

posted by rhett on Jul 28, 2004 at 5:52am

I was there recently, too, at a matinee with about 50 other people. I sat in five different locations to get their different perspectives, including the last row. It was thrilling to see that vast expanse of seats, dozens of rows cascading down to the giant screen, curtained in red. The slow, graceful sweep of that curved curtain closing at the end of the feature brought a lump to my throat, knowing that it will soon be stilled. When the houselights came on, I took one last long look and left through the exit at the opposite side, so I could walk one last time around the back behind the auditorium, passing (and peeking in) the rear balcony exit, going across the lobby, up the escalator and out to the street.

I know it's not the Roxy or the Capitol but it was the only one I had and I am going to miss it.

posted by saps on Jul 29, 2004 at 6:40am

In the last two posts about the Astor Plaza, rhett and saps sat in a 1500 seat theatre with only 15/50 people in the auditorium. Even with big films like "Spiderman 2" the theatre can only pull in less then 50 people for a show. In the 80's-90's in Los Angeles. Some theatre chains would keep historic theatres open as long as they could by off setting profits from other profit plexes in the company. But the american movie going public loves those mega-plexes that the chains have built. And the true Event movie is now on 3000 plus screens, so why travel from your local plex. This year we loss the Astor Plaza in New York, earlier this year Los Angeles lost the Century Plaza Theatre. Both 70's style modern palaces for the new generation of movie going, which only seems to have lasted 30 or so years. In today's operation costs the Roxy and the Capitol could never have survived, because of the real size of the auditoriums.

posted by William on Jul 29, 2004 at 7:48am

Apparently Loews Cineplex is trying to increase patronage for the Astor Plaza on its last weekend as a movie theatre. I received this in an email from them:

Our Gift To You for Three Decades of Movie Magic At Loews Theatres Astor Plaza 1. Visit Astor Plaza 1 in Manhattan at 1515 Broadway during its closing weekend (July 30 - August 1, 2004) and you will receive a handout with three coupons valid for Loews Theatres 34th St.:
- Buy One, Get One Free Mid-Week Ticket*
- One Upgrade to Reserved Seating*
- $1.00 Off A Super Value Bucket*
In addition, Loews will conduct a raffle for an Annual Pass. The Astor Plaza 1 will be screening the highly anticipated new blockbuster from M. Night Shyamalan ("The Sixth Sense," "Signs"), "The Village", starring Joaquin Pheonix. *See Coupon for details

Is this the best they could do for a 70’s era deluxe movie palace? Try to drum up business for the 34th Street. Sheesh!!! What about a Film retrospective for the true fans of the Astor Plaza?

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 9:00am

Loew's has been trying to drum up business for the 34th Street plex for over a year and since it opened. Last year they did the buy one and get your next visit at half price. They have a lower admission price. But still I don't go to that theatre. I found the 34th Street Theatre a somewhat of a nice design. But not a winner of a theatre in my book.

posted by William on Jul 29, 2004 at 9:44am

What made Loews think the new theater on 34ths St would make it. They had the beautiful 34th St Showplace on the east side when I lived in NYC which along with Cineplex Odeon 34th St East have closed in recent years. I use to work on 34th and 8th at Bowery Sasvings bank in the late 70's and that area was not the greatest area to be after regular business hours.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:33am

Thanks, Theatrefan, for posting Loews' farewell to the Astor Plaza. I guess it's better than nothing, but instead of shilling for popcorn and plugging The Village it sure would've been nice to see Star Wars there one more time.

Here's a picture of the last real glory days of the Astor Plaza, almost 3 years ago, when they showed their final 70mm film:

http://www.geocities.com/malcolmtributepics/kubrick/2001.jpg

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:46am

Plus the AMC Empire 25 & Loews Ewalk 13 are only eight blocks away, I agree it was not the best location for a movie theatre.
Now back to the Astor Plaza, anyone have any memories they would like to share? I'll always remember seeing Apocalypse Now, 2001 & 2010, Indiana Jones & Titanic in the Astor Plaza, It will be cherished memories I will never forget. It's just not the same seeing movies in a shoebox cookie cutter multiplex nowadays!

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:46am

I like the 34th Street. Close to transit, big auditorium with big screens and great sound, nice views out the lobby windows. Lots of old-style movie posters and memorabilia.

On Thursdays at 7pm they have a classic film series; tonight 7/29/04 is The Philadelphia Story with Katherine Hepburn, Jimmy Stewart and Gary Grant. It's always nice to see this on a big screen.

posted by saps on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:50am

Your welcome Bill!
I was there for the 2001 reissue, It was something that all fans of huge 70mm roadshow fans should get to experience. I still have my ticket tucked away someplace, gotta go find it. I plan on going there one last time to see the village, will any of you cinematreasures folks be there as well?

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:52am

Your welcome Bill!
I was there for the 2001 reissue, It was something that all fans of huge 70mm roadshow films should get to experience. I still have my ticket tucked away someplace, gotta go find it. I plan on going there one last time to see the village, will any of you cinematreasures folks be there as well?

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 11:53am

One Astor Plaza memory that just came to mind: during the first showing on the first day of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, a small section of the ceiling fell in. No one was hurt, fortunately. I guess they had their great sound system turned up a little too loud :)

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:02pm

Bill
I can't access the web site.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:07pm

Excerpt from the Reuters article:

>>Worth noting, too: In the 1940s, several of today's legit houses were used exclusively as first-run movie houses, including the Palace with 1,700 seats, the Lunt-Fontanne, then known as the Globe, with 1,500 seats, the Broadway, the Winter Garden and the Ambassador.

Maybe we can convince the Messrs. Shubert and Nederlander (and Jujamcyn) to return one of these houses for exclusive first fun movies and premieres.

posted by saps on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:17pm

If the picture won't open, try this:

http://www.malcolmmcdowell.net/

Go to Kubrick Media Mentions, then click on Pictures, then click on 2001 in 2001.

Another tribute to the Astor Plaza: I could be wrong, but I think the Astor Plaza has more comments on its page than any other theater in Cinema Treasures, even more than Radio City Music Hall! Here's one more ...

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:20pm

Back in 2000, when Loews Cineplex was still a publicly traded company they featured a vintage picture of the Loews Astor Plaza in their annual report. It was being used for the world premier of the film "Funny Lady" which came out in 1975, the theatre must have been around for a year at this point. The very front of the marquee said LOEWS Astor Plaza in big red letters. In what year did Loews drop the name Loew's and start using just plain Loews?

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:30pm

The first time I ever went to NYC was in 1975. Funny LAdy was playing at Loews State than in theater one and theater 2 had Dillinger. In the early 90's Sony purchased Lowes and ran all the theaters under Sony. Even when the State reopen it was known as Sony State. I htink when they merged with Cineplex Odeon, they went back to using the Loews name. Loews also operated The Festival on 57th St breifly and the Paris. When they took over the PAris they changed the name to Loews Fine Arts. I don't knoiw hwwat happened, but they didn't run the theater very long.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:34pm

Sony Theatres was a silly name, when you think of the movies you think "LOEWS". When I think of my tv set or walkman I think of Sony. I'm glad they got rid of the name Sony Theatres.

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:40pm

I agree. I thought Sony was also a stupid name for a theater chain.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:43pm

The theatre has more listings than any other because the site is often used for "chat" that has nothing to do with the Astor Plaza. I hate to see any theatre close, but this is one that I'll never miss. To my way of thinking, it was never more than a hole in the ground, literally and figuratively. Due to its location, it always seemed to me to be a disaster in the waiting. I doubt that anyone trapped down there would ever have gotten out alive if a fire or explosion occurred. Good luck to MTV. They seem to be the ideal tenant for such a space. Perhaps one of the rock concerts will bring down the roof!

posted by Warren G. Harris on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:49pm

When you think of all the theatre chains in the NYC area that have come and gone such as: RKO, Fox Metropolitan, Century, Paramount, Skouras, Brandts, Interboro, Randforce, Golden, Stanley-Warner, I'm glad the name Loews still exists albeit as a very pale imitation of it's former glorious past in the NYC metro area.

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 29, 2004 at 12:55pm

It's not MTV thats taking over the theatre. And Viacom does not own the building, they are just a tenant.

posted by William on Jul 29, 2004 at 1:15pm

Go Warren you said it like it is. As I've said many a time but never enough I remember when this was literally a hole in the ground in '68 and it's always remained one. Now lets hope that Toys R Us goes bust and we can rebuild the great Criterion.(by the way it used to get the second runs after the Astor Plaza because the idiots that be never gave it the first runs. Superman looked so good on that screen.) New York is not the same without you Criterion.

posted by Vincent on Jul 29, 2004 at 1:16pm

I believe that Loew's became Loews sometime between 1968 and 1972. I am not really sure why... but it may have been related to the fact that the Tisch family (who conrolled Loew's at the time) turned "Loew's Theatres, Inc." into "Loews Corporation" (with the theater company as a subsidiary). This new Loews Corp. (which still exists today as a conglomerate) is not to be confused with the original Loew's, Inc. (M-G-M and Loew's Theatres).

Loews Corporation spun off Loews Theatres in the 80's. It was owned by TriStar Pictures, taken over in turn by Coca-Cola, sold to Sony. The name change from Loews to Sony Theatres was to reflect the fact that Sony was so supposedly advanced with technology that people would be convinced that a "Sony" theater would have to have superior equipment, etc. This would perhaps have worked if all the old and dreary Loews became amazing hi-tech Sony's overnight, but clearly, the older theatres did not change much more than the marquee.

When Sony knew it was looking to spin off the theater chain once again (merging it with Cineplex Odeon) they changed the name back to Loews because 1) Loews is a familiar and historic brand name, and 2) they didn't want a company they didn't own to use the name Sony.

I would think that, since Loews Theatres is not related to Loews Corporation, they would bring the apostrophe back, to distinguish themselves from the conglomerate, but I would imagine, just as with all the other issues discussed on this page, they just plain don't care.

posted by Ian M. Judge on Jul 29, 2004 at 2:38pm

ASTOR MEMORIES??...The first movie I saw there was 1492...a beat flick made better by the presentation (I believe it was 70MM)

I really enjoyed seeing The Godfather there in 97, on the big screen and I did see 2001 re-issue in Dec. 2001. I had forgotton it was 70MM. It was great although they never publicized it and there were maybe 20 people there. A damn shame. I just saw Spiderman 2 and I might venture in to see The Village. Yes, it's a hole in the ground, but the fact that it's a big screen, great sound and picture AND the last of the single screens does make these tributes more nostalgic.

posted by rhett on Jul 30, 2004 at 6:59am

"2001" had a fine presentation at the Astor Plaza, good and loud! The only thing they did wrong was leave out the intermission, but they played the overture over closed curtains, and there were no commercials or previews to spoil the show. It was like 1968 all over again. At the end of one show they left the theater lights off when the credits were over while the exit music played, so you had to find your way to the exit doors in the dark. Whether it was a mistake or not, I don't know, but it was effective. One of the Friday night shows had a fairly big crowd with the center section almost completely full, amazing in spite of practically no advertising (one tiny ad in the New York Times was all I could find). It was total word of mouth, and the faithful fans came. I also saw it there on the afternoon of New Year's Eve 2001, for obvious reasons.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jul 30, 2004 at 8:29am

I saw Titanic there on April 15,1998. It was the late show and the theatre was fairly empty but what a great theatre to see that film in. Sound and picture were great. It's too bad they couldn't bring back some classic films like Star Wars or Titanic for the Astor's last week instead of the village. I bet more people would have come for those films.

posted by YankeeMike on Jul 30, 2004 at 11:11am

I remember Titanic playing there for a week or so recently. It was a little jarring to walk down the street and see Titanic up there again several years after it had opened. Kinda wish I saw it again, just for that large effect. My first Titanic screening was in one of the little boxes at the Chelsea 23. Not as cool. Did see it once at the Astor.

Now I really wish I saw 2001 twice. I remember how they just dumped that thing out there. I remember it was a supergreat experience and people did clap and cheer when it played.

I know W----- likes to rag on all of us young people for the crime of not being old enough to be alive to visit New York’s grand old movie palaces, but the Astor Plaza was my first big giant theater experience in New York, and no matter how much he wants to put on his jackboots and stomp all over my pleasant memories, I’ll have them.

I’ll miss my event movies in Times Square. I loved standing in a line in TIMES SQUARE to see a movie in a giant theater with a big crowd. I loved leaving a movie in TIMES SQUARE and seeing everyone bustling around, and the long lines outside even recent features like Lord of the Rings. I loved seeing the Grindhouse logo and Shaw Brothers logo in a TIMES SQUARE theater during Kill Bill. As a little kid I used to dream about seeing movies in Times Square. I moved here in 1992 and 42nd was already boarded up. I think there was one multiplex operating on the Deuce. Never made it in there that I remember. Visited the Embassy a couple times for crap like Judge Dredd. Ran into a couple of the porno places right before they went away, but the movie-theater New York I used to dream about was long gone by the time I got here.

I got one night at the Bleecker Street Cinema before it was gone. Saw The Kingdom at the Anjelika 57. The nondescript and bland Art Greenwich was at least a neighborhood theater for me. I saw Donnie Darko last night in a modern box on 42nd.

As crappy as the projection had been for years, as terrible as those faded posters for King Kong and Superman II were all those years, going down into that ‘hole in the ground’ was always a great experience for me. It felt pretty wild to go down such a long escalator to experience a new film. And that huge lobby and the standees all around. Especially before the two 42nd Street theaters closed, back when the Astor was THE place to go, and lines would form and huge audiences would show up.

I’d prefer not to have my heart stomped on during the final days of the bare tendrils of memory I can drag out of today’s soulless New York. But it’s a "free country," which means we can pee on each other’s tears all we want.

Me, I’m going to remember the Astor Plaza fondly.

I’ll be there Sunday, for the last show of The Village at 10:15 pm. Watching the curtains close, and holding back a sob. That ‘hole in the ground’ is leaving a hole in my heart.

posted by Shade on Jul 30, 2004 at 2:19pm

Taken from the Loews Cineplex 1999 Annual Report: "1975 Funny Lady premiers at Loews Astor Plaza, Still the largest auditorium in New York City with over 1,400 seats"

Was there tonight to see "The Village" quite a turn out for the 9:15 Show.It was really something to be in that giant auditorium and see those huge red velvet drapes closed over the movie screen. I sat in the back balcony section to get the full effect of vast expanse of grey seats in front of me. The Village is in the flat screen format, so I didn't get the full effect of the huge 61' sceen, but I stayed till the end of the credits to see the drapes close, it was a sad sight. I agree with you guys, its our hole in the ground. Farewell Loews Astor Plaza, some of us will really miss you!

posted by Theatrefan on Jul 30, 2004 at 9:05pm

My Astor Plaza memories are limited to having seen only two films there - 'Runaway Bride' and 'Signs'. Both were disappointments; I hoofed it out after 20 minutes of 'Bride', to the gasps of what had to have been an auditorium full of tourists who, by dint of their bellylaughing at some of the lamest 'humor' ever committed to film AND some of their murmurings of, 'Oh! He's walking out!', I'm convinced to this day got SERIOUSLY lost on their way to Branson and a Wayne Newton 'extravaganza', and 'Signs' was a bit too heavy-handed for my tastes. The theatre itself, though, was a singular experience - that curved screen, those seemingly endless rows of seats... wow! I feared from the time the double-booking of the Astor Plaza and 42nd Street E-Walk begain in the spring of 2002 that the Astor's days were numbered and, sure enough, those fears have now been realized. You (and the Ziegfeld) are the closest things to a movie palace this 28-year-old film buff has ever had the privilege of experiencing and I'll miss you terribly...

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jul 30, 2004 at 11:16pm

A fine farewell and parting to the Astor Plaza. It is a shame.
But, the greatest movie theater of all times anywhere in the world was the Radio City Music Hall and it is still standing. It shows a premiere movie every now and then, but at least it is still here, and now the New York Liberty is currently taking over for the Rockettes. I think all movie palace fans should plan a big party and rent out the Music Hall! And the contour curtain still remains.

posted by StephenJohansen on Jul 31, 2004 at 12:32pm

So much for my final trip to the Astor Plaza on closing day, August 5th. They closed yesterday. To all the Astor Plaza naysayers, I know it ain't the Roxy and never came close, but I had so many good times there and I'm going to miss it.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Aug 2, 2004 at 9:20am

I think that really stinks Bill. They couldn't put an exclusive film in there for a week. I think I ma going to e mail Loews and everybody should do the same.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 2, 2004 at 10:53am

Are you sure its closed?
Its still listed as showing \"The Village.\"

posted by SNWEB.ORG on Aug 2, 2004 at 11:13am

Confirmed, I called...oddly enough there is still someone there "When is the last day the theater will be open".. replied with "Were already closed". Such a shame.

posted by SNWEB.ORG on Aug 2, 2004 at 11:20am

You guys get yourselves over to the Loew's Jersey and prepare to be really awed. The movies are better too.

posted by Vincent on Aug 2, 2004 at 11:48am

Sorry, those who didn't know, I had posted this statement "I’ll be there Sunday, for the last show of The Village at 10:15 pm" on the 30th, but I guess that wasn't enough time for it to be read.

I had heard August 5th from the theater itself, then when I went online I saw that they were closing on the 1st.

I also wanted to get there a little earlier to take some pictures. I did get a few, but didn't do the 'four corners' thing I wanted to do showing the vast space and many seats.

We arrived via 44th so we could walk up to the large marquee one last time, bought our tickets, were given the coupon sheet for a free entry to 34th Street and a free upgrade to Reserved Seating at the 34th. This was 'Loews' gift' for 30 years of service.

The guy taking tickets was cool. He was talking with one of the people from the Cinemaniacs documentary and laughing and said, This is it! The last night!

Got some popcorn and a final hot dog, said hi to staff worker Noble who I had been talking to since I learned of the end, he mentioned he was moving over to the Loews State, and I went to sit down. There were a 150 people maybe. Took one pic and someone noticed my Cinerama shirt and it turned out to be some guy who works at Film Forum.

Watch the movie, and it was really dull. Completely boggles my mind that Loew's would not only book a big opening film for only three days, have the studio make up brand-new marquee image tiles that will only fit this one marquee for three days, but that if they knew they were closing and didn't want to just end the run with Spider-Man 2 (which really would've been a much more wonderful note to go out with), then why not rent some print like Titanic or some big event movie that people might actually clap at and let us have a go? They obviously knew people were upset enough to print up these coupons, even though they really just want us to completely bypass the 42nd Street Loews and head to 34th, which is bland bland bland bland. Nice, but bland.

Top of the screen had the same old projection problem they've had for years (just slightly fuzzy at the top and not completely full). I've been going to the Astor Plaza for 12 years and it's always had that. A couple of times I actually went to other theaters just because I needed the better projection. Still, glad I saw Lord of the Rings 3 there on opening day, Christmas Day 2003, as it was completely and entirely sold out. So much fun!

So the Village is ending, I grab my video camera and go all the way to the last row in the center, just over that back exit, to shoot the final closing curtain. I almost wondered if they were going to do it. There were some workmen looking at the black masking cloth. The curtain closes, one guy up front stands up and claps and I do the same. There were only 12 people in the theater at this point. A few were walking around looking at the various vantage points, much as I'd been doing since I learned of the imminent demise of the space.

I saw each film here since I learned the news: Van Helsing, Shrek 2, Harry Potter 3, Spider-Man 2, the Village. I kinda wanted to catch Spider-Man 2 again on the big screen, but the week got busy.

The end was pretty awful. After the screen closed I panned the camera around, and they were reopening it. Then these burly gristly guys who drink beer started pulling at the black curtains. Then a guy was walking around with a flashlight. Then ladders and other tools and ropes came in. I asked one of the guys, Is it possible this space might be used for movies again? He said, Well, we're taking the speakers now, so those will be gone. I'm cutting the screen open to get to the speakers in back. The projectors are going, so they'd have to replace those. So I don't think they're going to show movies here again.

I wanted to get a nice shot standing in front of the Broadway bulb overhead as you entered, and I did, but the guys are in the background on their ladder, already taking the place apart moments after the credits were over.

The theater staff just wanted us gone. As we were taking pics they kept telling us the theater was closing. I took a couple pics of the mammoth stairs, one of the eternally closed back exit where the theater manager had a little open-air 'office,' opened up the video camera for one last ride up that long escalator to the street, and exited out the front.

Had to walk down the long corridor hallway that also has the entrance for the Minskoff, just because it was always so fun to walk down that hallway to catch a flick in the Square.

And that's it for the Astor Plaza, the last witness to Times Square's over-the-top motion picture swelling. There's one mute witness, waiting for a renter, but at one million a year it seems unlikely. The Loews State is a very dim memory, having a hey day for a few short years until the two megaplexes opened on 42nd. Once that dim light is extinguished, there will be nothing but memories of what movie-going was like in Times Square. Or that Times Square even had movie theaters.

posted by Shade on Aug 2, 2004 at 12:04pm

I wrote Loews and blasted them. I can't beleive they tore the theater apart on the last night. Ialso didn't know they were showing movies again at the Loews Jersey City.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 2, 2004 at 12:10pm

The Loew's Jersey City shows classic movies about one weekend a month starting in September and ending in May (it has no air conditioning so it's not open in summer). This year is their 75th anniversary, so I'm sure they'll have something special planned when they reopen in the fall.

http://www.loewsjersey.org/

Thanks, Shade, for posting every detail (sad though they were) of the final night of the Astor Plaza. We can only hope that someday there will be a big single-screen theater in Times Square once again.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Aug 2, 2004 at 12:45pm

It's no suprise to me that they were ripping the place apart right after the 10:15 showing of the Village. When I was here Friday nignt I spoke with the manager, whom I remember from the Kips Bay, he said that they have to be totaly cleared out from this space by Thur. From what Shade said they were probably working all night to take out all the theatre equipment.

You guys are right the Loew's Jersey is an terrific place to see movie, they turn 75 in September so I hope something special is planned.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 2, 2004 at 1:53pm

You would think they could have booked something special if they were only going to be open for the weekend. Or at least announce that they were closing on Sunday. I had planned to go on Thursday even know I did not really want to see the "Village." Lets hope the Ziegfeld stays open but I always felt the Astor was a better theatre.

posted by YankeeMike on Aug 2, 2004 at 2:00pm

RIP: Astor Plaza...It's gone. The people at Loews didn't do anything special because even though the people here made a big deal of the closing, they figured that as usual, it will all die down after the closing...and it will. I am so glas I went last week to see Spiderman2 there. We're in a losing battle guys, and we lost this one. It's time to say goodbye to a great theater. It's just unfortunate that because of multiplexes and bad movies that make alot of money and stupid teens, that culture has to suffer.

I've never been to Loews jersey City, the showtimes never worked out for me but hope to....BUT....

A great theater does exist. THE LAFAYETTE THEATER, in Suffern NY...all this talk of 2001...on Sept. 12, 2004 they will be showing 2001 with an appearance (in-person) by both Kier Dullea AND Gary Lockwood...if that's not enough, that same afternoon, they're showing PLANET OF THE APES with an appearance by NOVA..Linda Harrison...it's all part of their Sci-FI festival from Sept. 10-12, the next week begins the Big Screen Classic Series with ...THE CAINE MUTINY...9/18

so, yes,, I too am bummed about the Astor Plaza but luckily, I have The Lafayette to have great films "experienced" as oppossed to viewed. I urge all here to go to The Lafayette and see what I'm talking about. For me, the theater has become a haven...see it on... www.bigscreenclassics.com

posted by rhett on Aug 3, 2004 at 6:18am

I have heard about this theatre. Is there anyway to get there using public transportation?

posted by YankeeMike on Aug 3, 2004 at 10:51am

PATH to Hoboken station, then NJT train to Suffern --- about four short blocks away from the Lafayette. An easy trip.

posted by AndyT on Aug 3, 2004 at 11:13am

Can't wait to see this place in Sept. I'm sure it will be nothing short of spectacular.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 3, 2004 at 12:15pm

You can also get to the Lafayette by bus (Short Line) from Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan:

http://www.shortlinebus.com/schedules/Hudson_S_Folder.pdf

posted by Bill Huelbig on Aug 3, 2004 at 1:24pm

Now that the Astor Plaza is sadly no more, can someone at Cinema Treasures please edit this page - separating out the true comments about the theatre...and the memories...shifting the gossip and the asides about 70mm to another page...This theatre deserves a concise updated history - key pictures opening here, long runs, and links to relevant news articles (maybe even some NY Times bits from the trouble pre-history as the Reade and then the opening as the Astor Plaza.

Thanks

posted by SethLewis on Aug 3, 2004 at 1:41pm

Longest run at the Astor Plaza: "Star Wars" - 65 weeks in 1977-78. "Grease" was supposed to open here but it had to change to the Loew's State because of the ongoing popularity of "Star Wars".

posted by Bill Huelbig on Aug 3, 2004 at 1:56pm

The Loews Astor Plaza movie screen at 61' was the fifth biggest in New York City.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 5, 2004 at 6:31am

Do you mean when the theater opened? And could you give us the top 4?

posted by Vincent on Aug 5, 2004 at 7:14am

No, it was when the Astor Plaza closed. The largest is the Loews auditorium in Loews Lincoln Square at 62.5' The second biggest are all 62' and are as follows: Loews Kips Bay Auditorium 10, Loews Ewalk, Auditoriums 12 & 13. The Ziegfeld was the sixth largest at 52'. The magazine I am getting this info from does not say which ones are 3 & 4, but one of them has to be in the AMC Empire 25 and falls between 61' & 62'

Keep in mind that the Lincoln Square opened in 1994, Kips Bay & Ewalk in 1999 and the Empire in 2000, so before all these theatres were around the Astor Plaza was the biggest in NY.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 5, 2004 at 8:08am

The screen at Radio City Music Hall which still is tucked above the procenium in front of the gridiron is the record at 70'

posted by StephenJohansen on Aug 5, 2004 at 9:11am

The two largest auditoriums at the AMC Empire 25 are Theatres 1 & 6. I was told by the manager that the screens were the same size but not the size of them.

posted by mhvbear on Aug 5, 2004 at 11:43am

The largest screen screen in NYC I would have thought woule be the IMAX at the Loew's Lincoln Square.

posted by mhvbear on Aug 5, 2004 at 11:44am

That would be placed under Special Venue type theatres. Even if they show 35mm film sometimes.

posted by William on Aug 5, 2004 at 12:31pm

I went by the Astor Plaza last night, everything that Loews could salvage they took, as you look into the lobby, all of the Poster Cases that used to hang on the walls are gone, all that remains is their outline on the wall and wires dangling loose. The boxoffice ticketing system and microphone are gone, as is the schedule for what the movie and showtimes are. The marquee still has the Village sign on it, but it is dark. It's a sad sight indeed! If anyone wants a outdoor shot of the theatre now is the time to take it.

Also you might want to check this article out from Fridays Daily News:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/story/219312p-188627c.html

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 7, 2004 at 2:14am

There is a magazine called "Scene" being give out at Loews theatres to celebrate the chain's centenial 1904-2004. As soon as you open the front cover there is a picture of the Astor Plaza hosting the premiere for Funny Lady from 1975. I got my issue at the Loews Orpheum yesterday, you might want to check for it at your local Loews theatre. It also contains an interesting article and photos that chronicle the last 100 years of the Loews Theatre Chain.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 10, 2004 at 11:35am

Hey TheaterFan. I was only in the Orpheum one time in 1982 to see Annie. Did they totally knock down the theater and rebuild it to make it 7 theaters? When I lived in NYC, it was 2 theaters. The balcony theater had it's enterance on 3rd ave and at one point was called Loews Cine.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 10, 2004 at 12:00pm

Hi Mikeoaklandpark,
Yes the original Loew's Orpheum was knocked down to make way for an apartment bulding with modern cinemas uderneath. The 3rd Avenue entrance to the theatre is gone. Since this theatre has opened they have redone the lobby, because the ticket booth area used to be outside. The inside of this theatre is like the other Loews of this era ala the 84th St, Village 7, and 19th Street East. The one unique feature is the marquee is sort of a throwback to the old fashioned ones of yesterday, it had a curved hump in the front.
Unfortunately like all other theatres the land they were sitting on had much more value than the actual building.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 10, 2004 at 12:10pm

Like what Theatrefan said "The land they were sitting on had much more value than the actual building".

Thats why theatres in this city like the Roxy, Rivoli, Capital, Warner, Paramount were all razed or as in the case of the Paramount gutted for office use. They were just built too big for movie exhibition of today.

posted by William on Aug 10, 2004 at 12:57pm

Land values being what they are in Midtown Manhattan, there really was no way to save these theatres, also lets remember the preservation movement had yet to be started, they wanted to tear down Grand Central and replace it with an ugly office building as well. Other Cties have seemed to save at least one former palace and use it for preforming arts centers, I wish New York had been able to, well at least we have Radio City.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 10, 2004 at 1:13pm

I am originally from Phila and there is a fight now to save the only theater left in center city the Sameric/Boyd. UA closed it a few years ago and Clear Channel is supposed to turn it into a legit theater if enough funds can be raised. The same thing happened to the theaters in Atlantic City. When the casino's, came down went the theates. Most were torn down and parking lots were made. The last year that most were in operation were 1973.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 10, 2004 at 1:25pm

Yes, I went to see movies there when it was the Sam Eric Quad, gosh UA really ran that place into the ground. Believe me if this can happen in other cities like the Loew's Jersey in Jersey City and the Opera House in Boston it can happen in Philly. I believe that the Boyd is the only real surviving movie palace still left in Center City.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 10, 2004 at 1:36pm

When I was in Phila in June of 2000, there was another theater closed by UA, Eric's Place that was for sale or lease. It was originally a Trans Lux theater. The Midtown thetaer was closed by AMC, but is now a legit theater caleed the Prince Arts.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 10, 2004 at 2:04pm

I remember Eric's Place, It's now been converted to retail. UA bought out the Sam Eric chain in the late 80's I think. I wonder if there are any former Sam Eric theatres still operating?

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 10, 2004 at 2:35pm

I was to the Astor the other day...took pics with The Village marquee, as well as exterior and shots of the corridor on the side with the Astor signs.I will post pics when the site upgrades it's "add photo" link...does anyone know how to do it from the comment section? I can post that way...

RE: the "Scene" mag. I'd love to see pics from the Astor hosting Funny Lady. Can you scan and post? BTW...I also took pics of the Embassy formerly Mayfair/DeMille on 7th and 47th. The marquee is there (nothing on it) and you can still see the exterior of what the theater was in it's heyday...must've beeen something.

posted by rhett on Aug 11, 2004 at 5:53am

rhett,

I can scan the photo, where would I post it to? Do they let you do that on this site? I hope something gets done with the Mayfair/Demille, its been empty for a very long time and its mostly intact inside.

posted by Theatrefan on Aug 11, 2004 at 6:40am

Theaterfan
There are still a few theaters of the old Sameric chain that are still operating. United Artists did close most of them.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 11, 2004 at 7:30am

The company that has the Mayfair/DeMille up for lease wants over a million dollars in rent a year for the theatre. Our company looked into leasing it about two years ago. So it could be turned into a motion picture screening theatre. Like the DGA, Motion Picture Academy, WGA type theatres. With the cost of the rent and the theatre is not in that great of shape right now. The past operators of the theatre let major problem go without repairing them in a timely fashion.

posted by William on Aug 11, 2004 at 7:51am

William
You would think that they would come down in the rent considering the building has been vacant for many years. Obviously these building owners in NYC have nothing but greed on their minds.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Aug 11, 2004 at 8:02am

I think they see $$$ signs, because with the Biltmore Theatre reopening and restored for Broadway. I really think they are waiting for some major name retail store to go into it. One problem I see is that building the theatre is located in is not a full building over the theatre. If you stand across the street near 48th Street and look over you can see the building is shaped like a backwards L and the theatre is in the rest of the missing part. So that building could be an easy building to be razed because of the theatre. So they could make a small tower type building on the site. The past operators of the theatre let the theatre go and its more like a old worn grind house than a former Roadshow house.
If our company had redid the theatre it was to feature a State of the Art projection booth. See that's my part in this project with the company. I handle projection services for them and their clients.

posted by William on Aug 11, 2004 at 8:20am

I saw Return of The Jedi at the 86th st. before it was demolished. Was this theatre similer to the 83rd st. Loews that was replaced by the 84th st. one?

posted by YankeeMike on Aug 11, 2004 at 8:37am

At the time of its closing, the Astor had 1427 seats.

posted by Damien Farley on Aug 14, 2004 at 12:04pm

A shame -- I liked it much better than the Ziegfeld -- bigger screen, better sight lines.

I saw Star Wars there, the Matrix on openning night, and many, many other films, especially during the early '80s. Last film? LOTR:ROTK for sure and after that???

Sad, sad, sad... The best theater now in NY: The Walter Reade -- if they evr close that, I'm moving.

Ted

posted by Ted Todorov on Sep 7, 2004 at 9:30am

Dear Cinema Treasures Readers,

After years of research, Michael Coate and I are proud to announce that "70mm In NY" has been posted on our site, www.fromscripttodvd.com

To navigate directly to this part of the site, copy and paste the following into your browser:

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/70mm_in_new_york_main_page.htm

We've included a number of interesting features about "70mm In NY," including an introductory article about the history of 70mm In NY; a theatre list of 70mm equipped houses; a list of the longest running 70mm engagements in NY, and much, much more.

We feel the most exciting part of the site is the list of 70mm engagements. You can click on any year from 1955 through 2004 and find out information on which films played in the NYC-region in 70mm.

As we've seen on this wonderful site, there are quite a few 70mm fans from the New York/New Jersey region, and we hope that you will enjoy this look back on 70mm presentation in your area.

There are some sections of "70mm In NY" that are coming soon, so we please check back.

We encourage your feedback.

Best regards,
William Kallay
Michael Coate
"70mm In NY"

posted by Bill Kallay on Oct 9, 2004 at 3:55pm

When the Astor Plaza reopens as a concert venue, its seating capacity will be expanded to approximately 2200.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Dec 14, 2004 at 5:28pm

The Astor Plaza Theatre will be renamed the Nokia Theatre when it reopens again. The construction around the boarded up marquee states the new name.

posted by William on Jan 8, 2005 at 1:55pm

I take it they won't ask people to turn off cell phones before shows?

posted by Ron Newman on Jan 8, 2005 at 2:03pm

I walked by last week and peeked up to the Nokia construction sign and could see right through the back of it to Broadway. I walked underneath and yup: the marquee is gone. I wonder how they spirited that thing away? Doubtful it'll be reused elsewhere.

posted by Shade on Jan 16, 2005 at 9:59pm

What would have been the big deal keeping the marquee. They are going to need one anyway. The Palace Theater on broadway had a great marquee until they remodeled in the 80's. The one they have now is terrible.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Jan 17, 2005 at 5:00am

Yes, it's true, the marquee of the Loew's Astor Plaza is gone. It will be called the "Nokia Theatre". It's a shame they don't save the marquis but destroy them. Even in Las Vegas, they have been saving their old signs for an eventual Neon Museum. They already restored the "Aladdin" lamp and the "Howdy Pardner" cowboy and Las Vegas "Lil" sign. They even saved the "Treasure Island" pirate sign. The Siegfried & Roy sign I can't get any information on. I also enjoyed "Star Wars" there; the Dolby Stereo was fantastic. I don't recall vibrations from the IRT trains underneath; although they are nearby. I also saw "Alien" there and I believe the #1 film of all-time "Titanic". What a loss to Broadway and to Times Square. They want to close the Ziegfeld too, but it's the only theatre remaining in New York where ermieres can be held. They can't use the RCMH due to the heavy bookings of shows well in advance.

posted by Myron on Jan 20, 2005 at 11:01am

>>They can't use the RCMH due to the heavy bookings of shows well in advance.

It seems this house (RCMH) is dark most of the time.

posted by saps on Jan 20, 2005 at 4:07pm

This website is great but most of the comments here have little to do with the Astor Plaza Theatre. I had to scroll through over 100 comments having nothing to do with the closing of the theatre. Most of the discussion here seems to center on 70MM, theatres in New Jersey and California, which films deserved the Oscar, etc. What does this have to do with the Astor Plaza? If you guys want to read about various projection techniques, go to www.widescreenmuseum.com Here you will find much information about 70MM, Technirama, CinemaScope 55, Cinerama, VistaVision, etc. It is most enlightening. The description of how guests were treated at the last showing of "The Village" is disgraceful for customers to be treated like that. The staff was taking their troubles out on the theatre-lovers. That was a very interesting revelation. I simply wanted a list of films originally screened at the Astor Plaza. Incidentally, I saw "Alien" there. The Dolby-sound was so good that the whole audience jumped when the creature appeared from above. I never recalled hearing vibrations from the subway underneath and my hearing is superb! The loss of this palace is very sad!

posted by Myron on Jan 21, 2005 at 7:42am

Mryon wrote: Incidentally, I saw "Alien" there. The Dolby-sound was so good that the whole audience jumped when the creature appeared from above.

This is where "Alien" played during its original engagement in 70mm in Manhattan:

Manhattan: [B.S. Moss] Criterion
Manhattan: [Loews] New York 2
Manhattan: [Loews] Orpheum

"Aliens" in 1986:

Manhattan: [Loews] 84th Street Six
Manhattan: [Trans-Lux] Gotham
Manhattan: [Loews] Orpheum I
Manhattan: [RKO Century] RKO Warner Twin

"Alien 3" in 1992:

Manhattan: [UA] Criterion Center

Here's a very good article on where "Alien" opened in 1979. Do you recall seeing it at the Astor Plaza later in the year? Perhaps, if it played there later on in 1979, was it in 35mm & Dolby Stereo?

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/70mm_release/alien_openings.htm

This link will provide readers (if they haven't had a chance to look at the site) with every year 70mm played at the Astor Plaza. The theatre indeed played a lot, including the "biggies" like the original Star Wars Trilogy and Indiana Jones Trilogy.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/70mm_in_new_york_main_page.htm

Thanks.

posted by Bill Kallay on Jan 28, 2005 at 9:44am

In reference to Myron's last post - wouldn't a general forum be best for comments not related to particular theatres? I've often found it frustrating when I see comments posted completely unrelated to any particular theatre or not on the pages of those particular theatres. That, quite frankly, prompted me to discontinue the notification service for several pages on which I've posted comments; life's too short...

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jan 28, 2005 at 11:32am

Please help refresh my memory. I think I saw "Independence Day" with Will Smith and then "Titanic" at the Loew's Astor Plaza, but I am not sure. I know I saw "Star Wars" there; as I saw it several times. I was intrigued by the Dolby Stereo. We actually heard tinkles,engines roar, groans,etc from different sides of the theatre. Was "Star Wars" the first movie in Dolby? I wonder. Thanks.

posted by Myron on Mar 1, 2005 at 4:50am

"Independence Day" opened at the Ziegfeld. "Titanic" was at the Astor Plaza. The sound for "Titanic" was better at the Astor then any other theatre I saw it at.

posted by YankeeMike on Mar 1, 2005 at 5:05am

Myron, Someone may want to correct me here, but as I remember it, the first Dolby stereo optical film released was "Lisztomania" in 1975. The 1976 remake of "A Star is Born" along with a limited number of others followed. But it was "Star Wars" in 1977 that really generated a lot of interest in Dolby Stereo and theatre owners started installing Dolby all over the country.

posted by vito on Mar 1, 2005 at 12:03pm

The first post in this thread includes a claim that the Astor Plaza was Manhattan's first Dolby Stereo-equipped theatre. I believe both Radio City Music Hall and the Ziegfeld installed Dolby prior to the Astor Plaza, though the Astor Plaza was certainly among the first couple of dozen theatres anywhere to have it installed.

To help answer some of the questions posed in this thread, here's a link to an article on "Star Wars" that includes details on the early years of Dolby Stereo and a reference to the Astor Plaza.

http://fromscripttodvd.com/star_wars_a_day_long_remembered.htm

posted by Michael Coate on Mar 16, 2005 at 12:11am

Dolby used Radio City as a test site for their single channel Dolby A decoder and equalizer in 1974. Our Christmas film that year was "The Little Prince" which was three track mag, Dolby A encoded, using three of the mono units. Later we borrowed three more so that we would have the E.Q. section available when we ran 70mm, even though the tracks weren't encoded. Our first stereo/optical film was "Mr. Billion" which Fox may have done as a warm-up to "Star Wars" in 1977 -- it did precede the "Star Wars" opening at the Astor Plaza. The Ziegfeld also had 6 track Dolby equipment installed for "Close Encounters" and "Apocalypse Now" in 1977. Ioan Allen of Dolby says there were some split surround 70mm prints of "Superman" made in 70mm but none were played that way in cinemas, probably making "Apocalypse" the first wide release in 70mm with the reconfigured 6 track layout with split surrounds and only three channels behind the screen.

posted by REndres on Mar 16, 2005 at 7:28am

"Independence Day" opened at the Ziegfeld. "Titanic" was at the Astor Plaza. The sound for "Titanic" was better at the Astor then any other theatre I saw it at.

That's funny because when I saw "Titanic" the Saturday morning after the opening, the sound, the best way to describe it "warbled". It was very noticeable during the music parts especially the flute solos. There was laughing, it was so distinct. I might be completey wrong buy I believe they were using a DTS print. It was the only time I ever heard a problem with a presentation. They were first class for sci-fi and action pics, I saw the entire first run "Star Wars" Trilogy, "Logan's Run", "Altered States", The World Premiere of "Indiana Jones and The Temple Of Doom", The Premiere of '"2010", and lots of not so great films. The most fun was watching Times Square and the theater I was in be destroyed by a meteor on the big screen during "Deep Impact".

posted by BobT on Mar 16, 2005 at 9:08am

I livd in NYC from 76-81 and the first film I remember that opened in Dolby Stero was A Star Is Born at the Ziegfeld.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on Mar 16, 2005 at 9:19am

The Ziegfeld ran "A Star Is Born" in 70mm with 6 Dolby A encoded magnetic tracks. I was working there as a relief projectionist at the time.

posted by REndres on Mar 16, 2005 at 9:33am

I saw "Titanic" at the Astor the last night it played there. I would guess the problems Bobt had with the sound were corrected by then.

posted by YankeeMike on Mar 16, 2005 at 10:48am

Warbled sound would only happen if it was running in analog Dolby SR, not digital. It sounds more like a mistreading in the projector.

posted by William on Mar 16, 2005 at 11:30am

How are they going to squeeze another eight-hundred seats in there? Even with the old Griggs seats, which were much narrower than the Irwins that were there at the end, it was only another hundred. Are they going to hang seats from the ceiling??

posted by dave-bronx on Mar 16, 2005 at 12:45pm

"Logan's Run" played the Astor Plaza in 70mm during summer 1976. Some of the film's batch of 70mm prints were Dolby-encoded (as a test?). The Los Angeles run (and I think also Boston and Toronto) advertised the engagement as 70mm and *Dolby* Stereo. The ads I've seen for the NY run, however, did not include any references to Dolby, suggesting the NY area 70mm prints were of the non-Dolby variety common for that era.

I guess my point is that it's *possible* the Astor Plaza ran "Logan's Run" in 70mm-Dolby Stereo and if so, this predated the Ziegfeld's 70mm-Dolby run of "A Star Is Born."

posted by Michael Coate on Mar 18, 2005 at 12:09am

***"Longest run at the Astor Plaza: "Star Wars" - 65 weeks in 1977-78."***

Minor correction: the "Star Wars" engagement was sixty-ONE weeks.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/70mm_in_new_york_longest_running_engagements.htm

.

posted by Michael Coate on Mar 18, 2005 at 12:13am

70mm Dolby-encoded prints were around untill the late 80s. I can remember working in at a theatre that did not have a Dolby processor, Universal shipped us a 70mm non-Dolby 6-track mag print of "E.T".

posted by vito on Mar 18, 2005 at 3:28am

Passed by the Nokia Theatre on Thursday, and right by the front doors, the old Loews Theatres carpet is still there.

posted by MikeRa on Mar 26, 2005 at 1:39pm

QUOTE: "70mm Dolby-encoded prints were around untill the late 80s."

70mm Dolby-encoded prints are still being made. I think you meant to write: "70mm NON-Dolby-encoded prints were around until the late 80s."

posted by Michael Coate on Mar 27, 2005 at 8:35pm

Michael, With the exception of IMAX, 70mm is dead, there have not been any prints available, other than a short run of "Playtime" in 2004. We have had a few 70mm prints such as "A Space Odyssey" in 2001 and the DTS re-issue of "Lawrence of Arabia" in 2002, but no movie has had a wide 70mm release since 1997. The most recent releases have not been Dolby encoded, the sound has been DTS which does not have a magnetic track, but a CD Rom which plays with a time code printed on the print. I know of no new theatre built in the New York area that has installed 70mm since the mid 1990s. It is a shame, since watching a film in 70mm is magnificent way to see a movie. However, with the added cost of the prints and maintenance of the projection equipment 70mm struggled for some time. Multiplex operators did not want 70mm because after a few weeks, when the grosses on a new film begin to drop, they move it to a smaller auditorium and make room in the bigger houses for the new incoming movies, with 70mm usually installed in only one of 10-12 auditoriums, that could not be done. Then along came Dolby Digital which became the last nail in the coffin for 70mm. DTS manufactured a sound reproducer for 70mm, Dolby did not.

posted by vito on Mar 28, 2005 at 3:42am

70mm was worth going out of your way to see only if the film was actually shot in 70mm. In the mid-80s we played a couple of films at Cinema I, the titles of which escape me at this moment, that although we had a 70mm print, it was shot in 35mm. The studios objective was to take advantage of the 6-track mag soundtrack in the pre-digital days. The projected image of this type of print was, to me anyway, always a little grainy.

posted by dave-bronx on Mar 28, 2005 at 4:56am

dave, that was the practice for a long time. Films were rarely shot in 65/70mm, the cost was just too much. However a 70mm blow up is still better than no 70mm at all, I suppose.

posted by vito on Mar 28, 2005 at 5:08am

In the Star Wars Trilogy Bonus Material DVD, there is a documentary called: "The Force is With Them - The Legacy of Star Wars. In this documentary is a shot of the Loews Astor Plaza Marquee with a huge line of people waiting to see the first Star Wars film. The Marquee shows the name "LOEWS" all in caps on top, with the original Star Wars logo underneath. It must have been an awesome experience for the folks waiting on this line in 1977. It's a shame we won't have the same pleasure of seeing Episode III Revenge of the Sith at the Loews Astor Plaza.

posted by Theatrefan on Apr 6, 2005 at 4:07am

I patronized the Astor Plaza and remember catching Coppolla's "Bram Stoker's Dracula" here and remember people clapping after the movie.

Also, Warner Brothers quietly released (dumped) Kubrick's 2001 into theatres in 2001 (I heard they were contractually obligated to re-release it in '01) and I caught it here. That was a treat to see it in a "movie palace" or what passed for a movie place in NYC in '01.

And when they re-released Friedkin's director's cut of "The Exorcist" it played at the Astor Plaza.

I also caught Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" here the day it opened.

Also caught "Platoon" here the day after it opened to Canby's rave review in the Times. I remember going to the first show on Saturday and then there was a huge crowd in the lobby waiting to get into the second show. A real vibe in the theatre that day.

One problem with the Astor Plaza (and the Ziegfeld)is the fact that there was only one bathroom in a theatre of that size. What were they thinking when they designed these theatres?

posted by hardbop on Apr 14, 2005 at 9:43am

Ahh - the old bathroom question - Theatres designed by office building architects have that problem - they don't recognize there is a different usage pattern in a theatre and use the standard office building formula for determining the configuration of the restrooms. If the client isn't on the ball, or doesn't consider the 'facilities' a priority (or if the client isn't the operator of the theatre), you end up with what the Astor and Ziegfeld had/has. The old time architects like Lamb, Eberson, the Rapp brothers, specialized in theatres and understood these things - those old palaces always had plenty of potties.

posted by dave-bronx on Apr 15, 2005 at 2:22am

I also caught "Eyes Wide Shut" at the Astor Plaza. I went to a screening during the opening weekend, before the bad word of mouth had begun to circulate. The Times Square crowd was clearly expecting something of a more titillating nature---starting at about the 30 minute mark, people in the audience began yelling at the screen ("What the *^&# is this?" etc.). One of my more memorable moviegoing experiences.

posted by ErikH on Apr 15, 2005 at 5:34am

Managed to get into one of the early shows of Titanic during the first day of its run. After that, it was a very tough ticket at this theatre, as they could only show a few a day with its running length. Also saw an early show of Bringing Out The Dead, and there were only a handful of people for that. When the film flips upside down (intentionally) I thought there was something wrong with the projection

posted by jbels on Apr 25, 2005 at 12:05pm

Given how Loews operates its theatres, that wouldn't have been a shock... ;-)

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Apr 25, 2005 at 12:12pm

Some remembrances of the Astor Plaza - and some movie theatres of Times Square past and present, along with a few inaccuracies (the Crowne Plaza, which is one block north, being noted as having replaced the Warner Twin/Strand; the current Roxy Delicatessen is actually located a couple of doors down on Broadway between 46th/47th from the one located in the former lobby of the since-demolished Movieland): http://www.awfulagent.com/misc/astor.html The flaws in the piece notwithstanding, it's a nice overall tribute.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on May 17, 2005 at 8:35am

On this day 28 years ago, "Star Wars" opened at the Astor Plaza. Today I'm wearing my "May the Force Be With You" button which was given out to all patrons that night. Tonight I'll be wearing it to the Ziegfeld where Episode III is now playing, but I'll pass by the Astor Plaza site on my way home for old times' sake.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 25, 2005 at 8:35am

Here's a page from Variety dated June 1, 1977, reporting the astronomical first week's box office grosses for "Star Wars" at the Astor Plaza:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/billhuelbig/AstorPlaza.jpg

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 25, 2005 at 8:13pm

Not sure if this has already been posted here yet, but here is a link to Nokia's website with information on the forthcoming Nokia Theatre Times Square. It says (this article is from March) that the theater is set to open this summer.

posted by Bryan Krefft on Jun 8, 2005 at 7:44am

Just alittle information on the new theatre the former screen area has been moved forward 50 feet into the old front rows of the theatre to make a stage area and back stage areas now.
It's coming along.

posted by William on Jun 8, 2005 at 8:47am

Any word, William, on how the increase in seating capacity is being facilitated?

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jun 8, 2005 at 9:17am

The Astor Plaza was among the theatres included in the original limited-market launch of "Star Wars." Opening-day gross at Astor Plaza was $20,322.

Source: Daily Variety (5/27/77).

posted by Michael Coate on Jun 18, 2005 at 4:01am

The scaffolding over the theatre says that the Nokia is "coming fall 2005." Any word on a date?

posted by jph on Jun 18, 2005 at 5:54am

Well the new marquee for the Nokia Theatre is up and running now.

posted by William on Jul 5, 2005 at 12:40pm

...and it's, at least in part (from what I saw a couple of weeks ago), a marquee of the LED variety.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jul 5, 2005 at 1:14pm

Here is the ad for the film everyone remembers the Astor Plaza for
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/ChmnofBrd/StarWars1977.jpg

posted by RobertR on Jul 5, 2005 at 5:07pm

Saw Ken Russell's 'Altered States' here.

posted by Carl ` on Jul 14, 2005 at 8:51pm

The website for the Nokia Theatre is up-and-running @ http://www.nokiatheatrenyc.com/; there isn't much to look at as of now, save for one sketch prominently featuring the new marquee (which, in reality, is still largely covered by scaffolding), and another partial one of the auditorium.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Jul 20, 2005 at 5:15am

According to the renderings on the site listed above by br91975, they have built balconies along the side walls of the auditorium. Also in the description it states the theatre will have a capacity of 2100, but they omit the word 'seats'. Another of the renderings shows the orchestra and the audience appears to be standing. Apparently the space will have the ability to be reconfigured for different functions, i.e., concert hall, banquet hall, etc. It is interesting that the architect of the Nokia Theatre is David Rockwell/Rockwell Group, a firm Loews engaged on a number of their newer plexes.

posted by dave-bronx on Jul 20, 2005 at 9:33am

From Billboard.com...

Nokia Comes To Broadway

August 03, 2005, 12:00 PM ET

Nokia Theatre Times Square To Open In Sept.
By Ray Waddell, Nashville

The 2,100-capacity Nokia Theatre Times Square, AEG's newest concert venue, will open in September. Tickets for many shows are already set to go on sale Aug. 12.

The venue is being developed and operated by AEG subsidiary AEG Live, who spent nearly $21 million renovating the old Loews Theatre at 1515 Broadway in Times Square.

The debut lineup includes Social Distortion (Oct. 1-5), Nickel Creek (Oct. 7), Steve Winwood (Oct. 10), Danzig (Oct. 17), Norm MacDonald (Oct. 20), Les Claypool (Oct. 21), Rusted Root (Oct. 22), Slipknot (Oct. 30-Nov. 1), Hanson (Nov. 2), Switchfoot (Nov. 3), Simple Plan (Nov. 8-9), Bauhaus (Nov. 11-12), Pat Green/Dierks Bentley/Cross Canadian Ragweed (Nov. 14), Coheed and Cambria (Nov. 16-17), Guster (Nov. 18-19), the Meters (Nov. 25), Donovan (Dec. 1), Rick Springfield (Dec. 2), and Brad Paisley with Sara Evans and Sugarland (Dec. 7).

In an earlier interview, AEG CEO Tim Leiweke told Billboard.biz building such theaters was a high priority "simply because if you look at the music business, there aren't a lot of new artists that can fill up an arena. Realistically, some of the best music today is [by] people like Norah Jones or Alicia Keys that are more suited for the intimacy of a 6,000- to 7,000-seat theater. So we are clearly focused on trying to build these, and that's going to continue to be a high priority for our company."

Designer David Rockwell and the Rockwell Group are the architects and designers of Nokia Theatre Times Square. The auditorium will feature two VIP mezzanines with lounge seating, a state of the art in-house lighting system and an in-house sound system by JBL. Backstage there will be luxury dressing room suites with full bathrooms including showers, flat-screen TV's and wireless Internet capabilities for band and crew. There will also be a green room that will be able to seat 30 band, crew and VIP's, a warming pantry that will tailor to the artists specific catering and cooking needs.

The Nokia Theatre Times Square marquee is an 85 foot long LED, high definition screen, capable of displaying both live and digital video. It is one of the largest marquees on Broadway, directly connected to the MTV marquee and is manufactured by Mitsubishi. It will have interactive text messaging capabilities with the fans and live events will be able to be broadcast live from the stage directly to the marquee in real time.

Distributed throughout the venue will be five media panels that will terminate at the marquee, allowing electronic media outlets to plug directly into the marquee to access live footage from inside the theatre. The theatre is also wired directly to the MTV studios.

The Nokia Theatre Times Square is a further expansion of the existing relationship between Nokia and AEG. The partnership already encompasses Nokia Theatre Los Angeles, a recently announced 7,000-seat theater in an AEG -developed sports & entertainment district in downtown Los Angeles, Club Nokia a 2,500 concert venue, also in the district on downtown L.A., and Nokia Theatre at Grand Prairie (Texas), a 6,000 seat theatre.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Aug 9, 2005 at 6:43am

More about the Nokia Theatre, from the venue's website. What's below is fairly redundant in comparison to the Billboard.com piece, but it does add a few new details and some additional information...

Nokia Theatre Times Square will bring entertainment’s hottest performers to New York’s most famous destination when the new 2100-capacity concert venue, developed and operated by AEG LIVE, officially opens this September. Nokia Theatre Times Square, located at 1515 Broadway, the corner of Broadway and 44th Street in the Viacom/MTV building, will be an innovative, multi-use theater that can be transformed to accommodate a wide array of events including concerts, live television and web broadcasts, live recordings, award shows and cocktail receptions. Currently undergoing a $21 million renovation in the former Loews Astor Plaza movie theatre, the theatre will have a capacity that ranges from 1500 – 2100 depending on the event. Tickets for upcoming shows at Nokia Theatre Times Square will be available at www.nokiatheatrenyc.com, through Ticketmaster at www.ticketmaster.com or by phone at (212) 307-7171.

"As I consider myself a 'programmer' at heart, it's hard to get excited about any venue, however, that all changed when I stood on the new stage at Nokia Theatre Times Square," said Randy Phillips, President & CEO, AEG LIVE. “Our team of ‘industry experts’ has created a very special, unique, spectacular theatre and environment that the artists will clearly appreciate and fall in love with. It is truly the perfect marriage of brilliant talent, incredibly clear and balanced acoustics and unparalleled sightlines blended together in a completely consumer friendly and interactive environment at the "World’s best known address."

David Rockwell, the award winning architect and designer, and the Rockwell Group are the architects and designers of Nokia Theatre Times Square. It is a theatre that was designed to be user-friendly and give both the fans and artists an overall superior event and concert experience. The auditorium will feature two VIP mezzanines with lounge seating, a state of the art in-house lighting system and an in-house sound system by JBL. Backstage there will be luxury dressing room suites with full bathrooms including showers, flat-screen TV’s and wireless Internet capabilities for band and crew. There will also be a Green room that will be able to seat 30 band, crew and VIP's, a warming pantry that will tailor to the artists specific catering and cooking needs.

The Nokia Theatre Times Square marquee is an 85 foot long LED, high definition screen, capable of displaying both live and digital video. It is one of the largest marquees on Broadway, directly connected to the MTV marquee and is manufactured by Mitsubishi. It will have interactive text messaging capabilities with the fans and live events will be able to be broadcast live from the stage directly to the marquee in real time. Distributed throughout the venue will be five media panels that will terminate at the marquee, allowing electronic media outlets to plug directly into the marquee to access live footage from inside the theatre. The theatre is also wired directly to the MTV studios.

Included in the theatre will be the Nokia Lounge which will provide a relaxing atmosphere where guests and fans will have the opportunity to charge their wireless phones, get hands-on experience with new Nokia products and services, download mobile content like games, videos and ring tones and enter promotions among other activities. In addition, Studio Red, a division of Rockwell Group, have created a three dimensional connection between great entertainment and the Nokia Mobile experience with the Nokia Lounge, Vision Wall and equalizer.

The Nokia Theatre Times Square is a further expansion of the existing relationship between Nokia and AEG. The partnership already encompasses Nokia Theatre Los Angeles, a recently announced 7,000-seat theater in an AEG -developed sports & entertainment district in downtown Los Angeles, Club Nokia a 2,500 concert venue, also in the district and Nokia Theatre at Grand Prairie (Texas), a 6,000 seat theatre.

posted by DBrenson/br91975 on Aug 9, 2005 at 6:49am

This is a photo of the Astor Plaza from 1999.

posted by Lost Memory on Aug 10, 2005 at 12:48pm

Now that was a great marquee. Not grand and splashy like the magnificent El Capitan, but you could see this sucker all way from 8th Avenue to across Times Square. Or if you wanted to know what was at The Astor Plaza, you could tune into "Good Morning America" and see it across the street. I'll always miss this theatre. I even worked for the company that would do the marquee panels and one sheet/lobby card displays in the alley shared with The Minskoff (that's the 45th Street marquee for "Saturday Night Fever" peaking out on the left side of the picture). I used to love hanging those on Friday mornings on a new playdate.

posted by BobT on Aug 10, 2005 at 1:14pm

Well, I visited the "Astor Plaza" Theater last night, although of course it is now the Nokia Theatre. (I know it may hurt, but I believe in keeping with the policy of this website, it may have to be changed above, and Unfortunately, "Astor Plaza" may now have to become the secondary name. Anyway, "closed/renovating" can also be changed to "open".

Well, last night was the second night of the new theater. The new marquee was beautiful. My visit there was sort of bittersweet, as it's a shame that it is no longer the Astor Plaza...but it is attractive. "Social Distortion" was the first band to open up the new Nokia Theatre, and that's who I went to see. (they are also playing Tuesday and Wed of this week there).
The escalators look similar to the way it always was, but that's where it ends. Everything is new, and nothing really remains of the old Astor Plaza. At the bottom of the escalators, is a bar area. Once inside the auditorium, it has been completely redone. The seats have been completely ripped out, and the front two tiers now has hardwood floors. This concert was general admission, so those two tiers are standing room, like most of this type of concerts are.
The rear back tier still has all the seats, but it was closed off from the first two tiers with thick blaock draperies.
The only thing I believe remains from the Astor Plaza are four huge round crystal chandeliers, and they were lit when we all came in, and during the breaks between the three bands that played there last night. They were out during the concert. There are also two VIP areas on either side of the stage, that are reached with two stairways on either side, from the second tier.
There is also another bar area down the hall, and a "concession area" selling stuff like chips and Snapple in another area. The hall is lined with attractive floral print carpet.
The place of course was fresh and brand new smelling, of course that was also muted a bit with the smell of alcohol. Strange seeing people walking around with alcohol and wave dancing in the middle of the Astor Plaza...
All told, again, it was sort of bittersweet being there last night, but must say the Nokia Theatre is attractive. At least it's still some sort of theater, even if a concert venue. It's better than being cut up into retail space. It's in good hands, even if not the beloved Astor Plaza anymore.

posted by Bway on Oct 3, 2005 at 5:01am

What a great post! I have wondered what the end result of the conversion was, it does not sound too bad. As you said, better than a retail space, at least it's still an entertaimnment venue. Thanks again for keeping us posted.

posted by vito on Oct 3, 2005 at 6:49am

The crystal chandeliers have to be new - there were never any chandeliers when it was Loews, other than a few suspended tin-can fixtures above the box office counter.

posted by dave-bronx on Oct 3, 2005 at 6:36pm

Yeah, I didn't remember the chandeliers either. They looked "older", but I guess they were added now then. They are in the main auditorium. I used the word "chandelier" as I don't know what else to call them. They are HUGE, round light fixtures, surrounded in crystal. Again, they didn't look "new", but don't know if they are from the Aster Plaza days or not.

posted by Bway on Oct 4, 2005 at 4:23am

I think the last movie I saw at the Astor Plaza was "Bram Stoker's Dracula" directed by Francis Ford Coppola in 1992. There really was nothing all that special about this place from an architectural perspective (same can be said of the Ziegfeld Theater), but at least it was a big single-screen house where presentation seemed to matter. This should be a top notch venue for musical performances. I look forward to the opportunity to see a show here. It's sad to say goodbye to the movie theater, but as some of the posts here have been saying, better a concert hall than a parking lot or retail space.

posted by Ed Solero on Oct 7, 2005 at 5:53am

Here's a nighttime shot of the enormous all-digital Nokia marquee taken just a few nights ago. It is much larger than the old Astor Plaza marquee - starting over the entrance at about the same spot but extending almost all the way to the corner of Broadway and 44th.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/GuanoReturns/Manhattan%20Theaters%202005/IMG_0962.jpg

The shot is taken from the opposite perspective from the photo that appears with the theater description above.

posted by Ed Solero on Dec 6, 2005 at 8:06am

I saw the nokia theatre on tv last night during ESPN's telecast of the heisman trophy award show and boy, it looks like a great place to see a concert or an awards show.

posted by Justin Fencsak on Dec 11, 2005 at 12:41am

I'm re-posting my photo from December 6th here as I had to reorganize my photobucket account and break the original link.

posted by Ed Solero on May 8, 2006 at 5:04pm

Great photos Ed.

posted by Bway on Jun 19, 2006 at 5:05am

Thanks Ed - thought I'd never see the old Astor Plaza again ...

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jun 19, 2006 at 1:09pm

I can't lay claim to taking those interior shots, guys. I lifted them from the following French website that has something to do with a tour of US cinemas accompanying the THSA:

http://www.silverscreens.com/thsa.php

The only shot that's truly mine is of the Nokia marquee from November of 2005.

posted by Ed Solero on Jun 19, 2006 at 4:17pm

Doesn't matter, Ed - you made them available in the best possible place. I never would have found the French website, most likely.

posted by Bill Huelbig on Jun 19, 2006 at 4:59pm

A photo of the marquee as the THE READE can be found in a NY times article January 1, 1973 (Subway noise Threatens Read Theatre Opebing). THE READE never opened and Walter Reade theatres walked away when the subway noise problem proved impossible to solve.

posted by AlAlvarez on Apr 1, 2007 at 3:03am

This was one of the largest movie screens in Manhattan! Truly a shame that they closed it down!

I think the only new release I ever saw there was the remake of KING KONG in 1976. I saw several revivals there, including THE GODFATHER, APOCOLYPSE NOW REDUX and 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY.

I've been to the Nokia Theatre only once last summer, to see the four original members of the rock band ASIA. They were also the first concert I ever saw back in 1983.

posted by Love movies - hate going! on May 10, 2007 at 7:14am

06/26/74 FOR PETE'S SAKE
07/26/74 DEATH WISH
11/22/74 THE KLANSMAN
12/20/74 MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS
01/31/75 YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN
03/14/75 ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE
05/02/75 TEN LITTLE INDIANS
05/23/75 BREAKOUT
07/18/75 ONCE IS NOT ENOUGH
08/22/75 RUSSIAN ROULETTE
09/12/75 MITCHELL!
09/19/75 PAPILLON
09/26/75 3 DAYS OF THE CONDOR
12/19/75 THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING
02/20/76 I WILL, I WILL … FOR NOW
03/05/76 MAN FRIDAY
03/26/76 GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY!
04/02/76 ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE/ DELIVERANCE
04/09/76 ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN
06/25/76 LOGAN'S RUN
08/13/76 THE SHOOTIST
09/17/76 closed?
10/22/76 MASSACRE AT CENTRAL HIGH
10/29/76 THE OUTER SPACE CONNECTION
11/12/76 TWO-MINUTE WARNING
12/24/76 VOTAGE OF THE DAMNED
02/11/77 THE CASSANDRA CROSSING
03/04/77 TAXI DRIVER
03/18/77 JAWS OF DEATH
03/25/77 THE EAGLE HAS LANDED
04/15/77 ISLANDS IN THE STREAM
04/29/77 PINK PANTHER STRIKES AGAIN/RETURN OF THE PINK PANTHER
05/06/77 closed?
05/25/77 STAR WARS
07/28/78 NATIONAL LAMPOON'S ANIMAL HOUSE
11/03/78 THE WIZ
12/22/78 SUPERMAN
04/06/79 THE CHAMP
06/15/79 PROPHECY
07/13/79 THE WANDERERS
08/10/79 MEATBALLS
08/17/79 STAR WARS
09/14/79 CITY ON FIRE
09/21/79 A TOUCH OF CLASS/ I WILL, I WILL…FOR NOW
09/28/79 A MAN, A WOMAN AND A BANK
10/05/79 TOURIST TRAP
10/12/79 THE GRATEFUL DEAD
10/19/79 METEOR
11/09/79 FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
12/07/79 AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
12/21/79 THE ELECTRIC HORSEMAN

posted by AlAlvarez on May 12, 2007 at 11:49am

A couple of minor release date corrections:

SUPERMAN opened 12/15/78
STAR WARS re-issue opened 08/15/79

posted by Michael Coate on May 12, 2007 at 12:54pm

LOGAN'S RUN opened 06/23/76

posted by Michael Coate on May 12, 2007 at 12:58pm

Michael, these are all within a week.

posted by AlAlvarez on May 12, 2007 at 11:02pm

Then what is the point of citing a specific date if they are merely approximate? Maybe a disclaimer at the head of the list would've been appropriate?

posted by Michael Coate on May 13, 2007 at 12:13am

They are Friday to Thursday weeks as is traditional in the industry.

posted by AlAlvarez on May 13, 2007 at 3:03am

Then why did you list "Star Wars" with a Wednesday date? (The 25th of May in '77 was a Wednesday.)

posted by Michael Coate on May 13, 2007 at 12:44pm

You will notice all of 1977 was Wednesdays. Where I have exact dates I have used them but I did not compile these with exact dates and many are off by two to three days.

02/08/80 HERO AT LARGE
02/29/80 AMERICAN GIGOLO
03/07/80 THE BLACK MARBLE
03/28/80 SERIAL
05/09/80 FRIDAY THE 13TH
05/23/80 THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
10/10/80 ORDINARY PEOPLE
12/12/80 THE SHINING
12/25/80 ALTERED STATES
04/03/81 HOLY TERROR
04/17/81 THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE
04/24/81 HEAVEN'S GATE
05/08/81 SQUEEZE PLAY
05/15/81 LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT/HOUSE ON THE LAKE
05/22/81 THE FOUR SEASONS
06/12/81 RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
11/20/81 TIME BANDITS
12/04/81 REDS
03/12/82 RICHARD PRYOR ON SUNSET STRIP
04/30/82 WRONG IS RIGHT
05/21/82 ANNIE
07/30/82 AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
12/17/82 THE DARK CRYSTAL
02/11/83 LET'S SPEND THE NIGHT TOGETHER
03/25/83 RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
04/15/83 FLASHDANCE
05/27/83 RETURN OF THE JEDI
10/21/83 UNDER FIRE
11/25/83 TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
03/09/84 THE HOTEL NEW HAMPSHIRE
04/06/84 MOSCOW ON THE HUDSON
05/18/84 closed?
05/23/84 INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM
10/05/84 TEACHERS
10/19/84 CRIMES OF PASSION
11/16/84 JUST THE WAY YOU ARE
11/23/84 INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM
12/07/84 2010
02/08/85 WITNESS
05/24/85 A VIEW TO A KILL
07/12/85 EXPLORERS
08/02/85 WEIRD SCIENCE
08/16/85 YEAR OF THE DRAGON
09/27/85 THE STUFF
10/18/85 CEASE FIRE
11/01/85 TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A.
12/04/85 YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES
01/31/86 YOUNGBLOOD
02/14/86 OUT OF AFRICA
02/28/86 PRETTY IN PINK
03/26/86 THE MONEY PIT
04/18/86 LEGEND
05/16/86 TOP GUN
07/02/86 PSYCHO III
08/01/86 HOWARD THE DUCK
08/22/86 NIGHT OF THE CREEPS
09/26/86 CROCODILE DUNDEE
11/21/86 AN AMERICAN TAIL
12/19/86 PLATOON
04/24/87 EXTREME PREJUDICE
05/20/87 BEVERY HILLS COP II
07/31/87 THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
08/28/87 HAMBURGER HILL
09/25/87 BEST SELLER
10/30/87 FATAL BEAUTY
11/25/87 PLANES, TRAINS AND AUTOMOBILES
01/15/88 THE COUCH TRIP
02/05/88 COP
02/26/88 APPRENTICE TO MURDER
03/11/88 VICE VERSA
04/01/88 BRIGHT LIGHTS, BIG CITY
04/15/88 COLORS
05/13/88 FRIDAY THE 13TH PART VII: THE NEW BLOOD
05/25/88 CROCODILE DUNDEE II
06/29/88 COMING TO AMERICA
08/19/88 A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 4: THE DREAM MASTER
09/16/88 TOUGHER THAN LEATHER
09/30/88 ELVIRA, MISTRESS OF THE DARK
11/04/88 US RATTLE AND HUM
11/23/88 SCROOGED
01/13/89 I'M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA
02/17/89 THE MIGHTY QUINN
03/03/89 FAREWELL TO THE KING
03/17/89 LEVIATHON
04/07/89 MAJOR LEAGUE
04/21/89 PET SEMATARY
05/24/89 INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE
07/14/89 LICENCE TO KILL
08/11/89 THE NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 5: THE DREAM CHILD
08/30/89 RELENTLESS
09/22/89 BLACK RAIN
11/03/89 STEPFATHER II
11/17/89 HARLEM NIGHTS

posted by AlAlvarez on May 13, 2007 at 7:22pm

Thanks, Al. Before I saw your lists, I'd forgotten just how many movies I'd seen at the Astor Plaza. Everyone remembers the Star Wars movies, but I'm talking about things like "Serial" and "Psycho III". Thanks again!

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 14, 2007 at 1:33am

This mostly dire nineties line-up makes one wonder not why the Astor Plaza closed, but rather, how it managed to stay open so long.

01/12/90 INTERNAL AFFAIRS
02/02/90 HEART CONDITION
03/02/90 HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER, THE
05/04/90 TALES FROM THE DARKSIDE
06/08/90 ANOTHER 48 HRS.
08/10/90 TWO JAKES
08/31/90 LEMON SISTERS, THE
09/14/90 DEATH WARRANT
09/28/90 KING OF NEW YORK, THE
10/26/90 GRAVEYARD SHIFT
11/16/90 ROCKY V
12/25/90 GODFATHER III, THE
02/14/91 SILENCE OF THE LAMBS
03/22/91 TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES II
05/03/91 RAGE IN HARLEM, A
06/07/91 CITY SLICKERS
07/12/91 BOYZ N' THE HOOD
08/23/91 DEAD AGAIN
09/27/91 NECESSARY ROUGHNESS
10/11/91 FRANKIE AND JOHNNY
11/22/91 ADDAMS FAMILY, THE
01/17/92 JUICE
02/14/92 WAYNE'S WORLD
03/27/92 LADYBUGS
04/10/92 SLEEPWALKERS
06/05/92 PATRIOT GAMES
07/10/92 COOL WORLD
07/24/92 MO' MONEY
08/28/92 PET SEMATARY TWO
10/09/92 1492: CONQUEST OF PARADISE
10/30/92 RAMPAGE
11/13/92 BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA
12/18/92 LEAP OF FAITH
01/15/93 NOWHERE TO RUN
02/12/93 TEMP, THE
03/12/93 FIRE IN THE SKY
04/07/93 INDECENT PROPOSAL
05/21/93 SLIVER
06/30/93 FIRM, THE
08/27/93 NEEDFUL THINGS
09/17/93 STRIKING DISTANCE
11/05/93 FLESH AND BONE
11/19/93 ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES
01/21/94 INTERSECTION
02/18/94 BLUE CHIPS
03/18/94 NAKED GUN 33 1/3: THE FINAL INSULT
04/22/94 BRAINSCAN
05/25/94 BEVERLY HILLS COP III
07/06/94 FORREST GUMP
08/03/94 CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER
09/28/94 JASON'S LYRIC
10/28/94 DROP SQUAD
11/18/94 PROFESSIONAL, THE
12/16/94 DROP ZONE
02/03/95 IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS
03/03/95 MANGLER, THE
03/17/95 CANDYMAN: FAREWELL TO THE FLESH
03/31/95 TOMMY BOY
04/19/95 NEW JERSEY DRIVE
04/28/95 PANTHER
06/09/95 CONGO
07/07/95 SPECIES
08/04/95 VIRTUOSITY
09/01/95 PROPHECY, THE
09/29/95 closed?
10/13/95 JADE
11/22/95 NICK OF TIME
12/15/95 SABRINA
01/12/96 EYE FOR AN EYE
02/02/96 BLACK SHEEP
02/23/96 BRAVEHEART
03/08/96 HELLRAISER: BLOODLINE
04/03/96 PRIMAL FEAR
05/17/96 HEAVEN'S PRISONERS
05/31/96 ARRIVAL, THE
06/07/96 PHANTOM, THE
06/21/96 MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE
07/26/96 KINGPIN
08/09/96 ESCAPE FROM L.A.
08/23/96 ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU, THE
09/06/96 closed?
10/11/96 GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, THE
11/22/96 STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT
12/20/96 SCREAM
01/29/97 GRIDLOCK'D
02/21/97 BLOOD AND WINE
03/07/97 PRIVATE PARTS
03/21/97 GODFATHER, THE
04/11/97 ANACONDA
05/02/97 BREAKDOWN
06/20/97 BATMAN AND ROBIN
07/11/97 CONTACT
08/01/97 SPAWN
08/15/97 EVENT HORIZON
08/27/97 HOODLUM
09/12/97 GAME, THE
10/03/97 KISS THE GIRLS
10/17/97 DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, THE
11/21/97 JOHN GRISHAM'S THE RAINMAKER
12/19/97 TITANIC
04/03/98 LOST IN SPACE
04/24/98 BIG HIT, THE
05/08/98 DEEP IMPACT
06/05/98 TRUMAN SHOW, THE
07/10/98 LETHAL WEAPON 4
08/05/98 HALLOWEEN: H20
08/14/98 HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK
08/28/98 54
09/18/98 RUSH HOUR
10/16/98 PRACTICAL MAGIC
11/06/98 WIZARD OF OZ, THE
11/20/98 CELEBRITY
12/11/98 STAR TREK: INSURRECTION
12/25/98 THE FACULTY
01/15/99 VIRUS
02/05/99 PAYBACK
03/12/99 THE CORRUPTOR
04/02/99 THE MATRIX
05/07/99 THE MUMMY
06/18/99 THE GENERAL'S DAUGHTER
07/02/99 WILD WILD WEST
07/16/99 EYES WIDE SHUT
07/30/99 RUNAWAY BRIDE
08/20/99 MICKEY BLUE EYES
09/10/99 STIGMATA
09/24/99 DOUBLE JEOPARDY
10/22/99 BRINGING OUT THE DEAD
11/19/99 THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
12/10/99 THE GREEN MILE

posted by AlAlvarez on May 16, 2007 at 12:38am

Al's right - what a crummy lineup. With a few exceptions, of course, such as "The Wizard of Oz" (1939) and "The Godfather" (1972). A sad state of affairs.

posted by Bill Huelbig on May 16, 2007 at 1:41am

Star Wars opened on Wed May 25. Actually all the Star Wars films opened on the 25th. The dates for Empire and Jedi are incorrect.

posted by Mikeoaklandpark on May 16, 2007 at 1:54am

Actually, that's not true. EMPIRE opened on the 21st, but these are not exact dates.

posted by AlAlvarez on May 16, 2007 at 2:17am

And why aren't they exact dates??? Am I correct that you used microfilm of New York City area newspapers (The New York Times, Village Voice, etc.) to do the research? With all the time it would take to transport oneself to a library, request/retrieve the microfilm, thread up the microfilm reader, etc., why wouldn't the researcher spend just an extra moment securing the exact start date for the film? In most cases, the exact starting date could be found on the same roll of microfilm as the incorrectly cited date.

Al, I'm not trying to poo-poo your work (quite the contrary, as I enjoy these types of historical lists and wish there were more of them), but I really don't understand your approach or your lame responses to my questions.

I find it [sarcasm on] amazing [sarcasm off] that, for instance, you would know and cite in a subsequent post the exact start date for "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return Of The Jedi," yet would still identify them with an incorrect date on your list just because the incorrect date fell on a Friday or whatever date you chose to cite at that point in your research.

Take a look at this list I put together for the NATIONAL in Los Angeles for an example of one approach to these types of lists. (Scroll to my first of two posts made on May 14, 2007.) And, yes, the dates given are exact (barring an error on my part) regardless of which day of the week a given film opened.

posted by Michael Coate on May 16, 2007 at 2:59pm

Michael, these are compiled from different sources. The early dates are from Variety, the later dates from the New York Times. I do not live in NY and did not go to the library to do microfilm research. I have a history of it at home and just had to retype the older ones.

These are playdate weeks and not always actual opening dates. I can check back on individual dates for specific features but I find the process mostly meaningless and here is why.

Films often preview for days before opening and screen extensively at other venues, so an actual opening date is no guarantee you saw it there. About 90% of movies since the 70's opened on Fridays and exceptions are easily checked on Proquest.

The purpose of my original research was for booking patterns of theatres, not the historical opening dates of movies.

posted by AlAlvarez on May 16, 2007 at 10:57pm

I've long thought it might be a nice idea to add a list of my Astor Plaza movies to the obituary I had done for the theatre (see May 25 2005 post for link thereto) so I totally appreciate the list of movies to have played the theatre. It just bums me that I couldn't start attending regularly until 1986; how I'd have loved seeing some of the movies that played the joint in its earlier years. And getting back to the May 25 2005 comment on my obituary, I may be wrong on the block the RKO National was on, but the Roxy Deli at 47/B'Way still stands right beneath the grandfathered marquees for the entrance passage to the Movieland, and I'm near certain of that.

posted by AwfulAgent on Jul 10, 2007 at 8:00pm

May 17, 2005 post; sorry.

posted by AwfulAgent on Jul 10, 2007 at 8:01pm

And I can confirm the "Closed" notation in the above lists for September 1996. Loews did do a remodel then; I remember how thrilled I was with the new sound system when I saw Ghost in teh Darkness after it reopened.

posted by AwfulAgent on Jul 10, 2007 at 8:10pm

Here's a blurry image of the old Loew's Astor Plaza marquee signage at night - from before the September 1996 renovations. This image is actually a screenshot from video shot by CT member Hollywood90038 on New Year's Eve 1992.

Compare the bold red signage on the side panel depicted above (facing Times Square) to the subdued white lettering along the top edge of that same facing on the marquee in this 1999 view. In the 1999 version, the theatre's name was most prominently displayed on the marquee's front panel.

There was also a vertical blade high up on the 44th Street side of the building just off the corner of B'way that simply stated "Loews" in black letters against a white background. I can't recall if that lasted to the very end.

posted by Ed Solero on Sep 21, 2007 at 8:32pm

LOEWS ASTOR PLAZA movie list from 2002 to 2004

2/8/02- Collateral Damage
3/22/02- Blade II
4/19/02- The Scorpion King
5/3/02- Spider-Man
5/31/02- The Sum of All Fears
6/28/02- Mr. Deeds
7/12/02- Halloween: Resurrection
7/19/02- K-19: The Widowmaker
8/2/02- Signs
9/6/02- City by the Sea
9/20/02- Ballistic: Ecks vs Sever
10/25/02- Jackass the Movie
11/8/02- 8 Mile
11/22/02- Die Another Day
12/18/02- The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
1/17/03- National Security
2/21/03- Dark Blue
3/7/03- Gangs of New York
3/28/03- The Core
4/11/03- Anger Management
5/9/03- Identity
5/23/03- Bruce Almighty
7/2/03- Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
7/18/03- Bad Boys II
8/8/03- S.W.A.T.
9/12/03- Once Upon A Time In Mexico
9/26/03- The Rundown
10/10/03- Kill Bill Vol 1
11/5/03- The Matrix Revolutions
11/21/03- Gothika
12/17/03- The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
1/30/04- You Got Served
2/20/04- Against the Ropes
3/5/04- Starsky & Hutch
3/19/04- Taking Lives
4/2/04- Hellboy
4/16/04- The Punisher
5/7/04- Van Helsing
5/21/04- Shrek 2
6/4/04- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
6/30/04- Spider-Man 2
7/30/04- The Village

This is one of the most wonderful movie theatres in NYC since the
Ziegfeld. Another favorite of mine. I'm so sad that it's closed.

R.I.P. ASTOR PLAZA 1974-2004

posted by PierreCity on Jan 11, 2008 at 5:45pm

I agree with you. For the second time last year it was used as the backdrop for the Heisman trophy awards. For those who watch it on ESPN, most sports fans don't know that this concert hall was once a movie theater. The only Loews 1 screener left is the one on 72nd street. Too bad the theater didn't show the Star Wars prequels, leaving that job to the Ziegfeld. Next year marks the 35th anniversary of this theater and the 5th of it becoming a decent concert hall. BTW, what became of the Loews memorablia?

posted by Justin Fencsak on Jan 12, 2008 at 10:15am

About a year ago on this page, Al Alvarez posted a list of the ASTOR PLAZA’s bookings. I appreciated the time, effort and intent Al put into the post, but I was left frustrated and short-changed by the end result.

So, with this posting, I’d like to present to Cinema Treasures readers a “new-and-improved” version of the theater’s bookings from the 1970s. The list is presented with my preferred layout & formatting. In addition, (1) release dates have been corrected, (2) bookings missing from the earlier posting have been identified and included, and (3) the duration of an engagement’s booking has been provided. And, for those with an interest in technology and the whole moviegoing experience thing (for which this theater was well-known), a notation for presentation format has been included.

ASTOR PLAZA
Part I: The 1970s

Compiled by Michael Coate

RE = Re-Issue/Return Engagement
MO = Move-over (i.e. continuation of an engagement from another theater)

06.26.1974 … FOR PETE’S SAKE (4 weeks)
07.24.1974 … DEATH WISH (17 weeks)
11.20.1974 … THE KLANSMAN (4 weeks)
12.18.1974 … MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS (6 weeks)

01.29.1975 … YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN (6 weeks)
03.12.1975 … ALICE DOESN’T LIVE HERE ANYMORE (6 weeks)
04.23.1975 … TEN LITTLE INDIANS (4 weeks)
05.21.1975 … BREAKOUT (4 weeks)
06.18.1975 … ONCE IS NOT ENOUGH (9 weeks)
08.20.1975 … RUSSIAN ROULETTE (3 weeks)
09.10.1975 … MITCHELL! (1 week)
09.18.1975 … PAPILLON (RE, 1 week)
09.24.1975 … 3 DAYS OF THE CONDOR (12 weeks)
12.17.1975 … THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING (9 weeks)

02.18.1976 … I WILL, I WILL…FOR NOW (2 weeks)
03.05.1976 … MAN FRIDAY (3 weeks)
03.24.1976 … GIVE ’EM HELL, HARRY! (RE, 1 week)
04.02.1976 … ALICE DOESN’T LIVE HERE ANYMORE / DELIVERANCE (RE, 1 week)
04.07.1976 … ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN (11 weeks)
06.23.1976 … LOGAN’S RUN (7 weeks, 70mm-Stereo)
08.11.1976 … THE SHOOTIST (5 weeks)
09.17.1976 … theater closed (4 weeks)
10.13.1976 … PART 2 SOUNDER (1 week)
10.22.1976 … MASSACRE AT CENTRAL HIGH (1 week)
10.29.1976 … THE OUTER SPACE CONNECTION (2 weeks)
11.12.1976 … TWO-MINUTE WARNING (4 weeks)
12.22.1976 … VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED (7 weeks)

02.09.1977 … THE CASSANDRA CROSSING (3 weeks)
03.04.1977 … TAXI DRIVER / OBSESSION (RE, 2 weeks)
03.18.1977 … THE JAWS OF DEATH (1 week)
03.25.1977 … THE EAGLE HAS LANDED (3 weeks)
04.13.1977 … ISLANDS IN THE STREAM (2 weeks)
04.29.1977 … THE PINK PANTHER STRIKES AGAIN / THE RETURN OF THE PINK PANTHER (RE, 1 week)
05.06.1977 … theater closed (3 weeks)
05.25.1977 … STAR WARS (61 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

07.28.1978 … ANIMAL HOUSE (10 weeks)
10.06.1978 … WHO IS KILLING THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE? (3 weeks)
10.26.1978 … THE WIZ (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.15.1978 … SUPERMAN (16 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

04.04.1979 … THE CHAMP (10 weeks)
06.15.1979 … PROPHECY (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
07.13.1979 … THE WANDERERS (4 weeks)
08.10.1979 … MEATBALLS (1 week)
08.15.1979 … STAR WARS (RE, 4 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
09.14.1979 … CITY ON FIRE! (1 week)
09.21.1979 … A TOUCH OF CLASS / I WILL, I WILL…FOR NOW (RE, 1 week)
09.28.1979 … A MAN, A WOMAN AND A BANK (1 week)
10.05.1979 … TOURIST TRAP (1 week)
10.12.1979 … THE GRATEFUL DEAD MOVIE (RE, 1 week, Stereo)
10.19.1979 … METEOR (3 weeks, Stereo)
11.09.1979 … FIDDLER ON THE ROOF (RE, 4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.07.1979 … AND JUSTICE FOR ALL (MO, 2 weeks)
12.21.1979 … THE ELECTRIC HORSEMAN (7 weeks)

posted by Michael Coate on Apr 13, 2008 at 5:11pm

Why would the Loew's Astor, a prime house in the heart of Times Square, be closed for 4 consecutive weeks in 1976 and another 3 in 1977? Equipment replacement is usually done in overnight hours. Even seat replacement, which we know wasn't done, only takes 4, maybe 5 days on a house that size. And remodeling didn't happen til the late '90s.

posted by dave-bronx on Apr 13, 2008 at 6:14pm

ASTOR PLAZA
Part II: The 1980s

Not included in this filmography are test screenings, sneak-preview screenings, midnight screenings, film festivals, premieres and other private events. The dates represent the first day of commercial release, and, where known, the presentation format has been provided. (No format notation implies a 35mm presentation with monaural sound.)

The principal reference was archived microfilm of The New York Times, Village Voice and Variety.

Loews: 1980-89

RE = Re-Issue/Return Engagement
MO = Move-over (i.e. continuation of an engagement from another theater)

02.08.1980 … HERO AT LARGE (3 weeks)
02.29.1980 … AMERICAN GIGOLO (MO, 1 week, Dolby Stereo)
03.07.1980 … THE BLACK MARBLE (3 weeks)
03.28.1980 … SERIAL (5 weeks)
05.02.1980 … DEATH SHIP (MO, 1 week)
05.09.1980 … FRIDAY THE 13TH (2 weeks)
05.21.1980 … THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (20 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
10.10.1980 … ORDINARY PEOPLE (9 weeks)
12.12.1980 … THE SHINING (RE, 2 weeks)
12.25.1980 … ALTERED STATES (14 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo & Megasound)

04.03.1981 … HOLY TERROR (2 weeks)
04.17.1981 … THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE (MO, 1 week)
04.24.1981 … HEAVEN’S GATE (RE, 2 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
05.08.1981 … SQUEEZE PLAY (1 week)
05.15.1981 … LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT / HOUSE ON THE LAKE (1 week)
05.22.1981 … THE FOUR SEASONS (3 weeks)
06.12.1981 … RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (23 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
11.20.1981 … TIME BANDITS (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.04.1981 … REDS (14 weeks)

03.12.1982 … RICHARD PRYOR: LIVE ON THE SUNSET STRIP (7 weeks)
04.30.1982 … WRONG IS RIGHT (3 weeks)
05.21.1982 … ANNIE (10 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
07.28.1982 … AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN (20 weeks)
12.17.1982 … THE DARK CRYSTAL (8 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

02.11.1983 … LET’S SPEND THE NIGHT TOGETHER (6 weeks, 70mm-Stereo)
03.25.1983 … RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (RE, 3 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
04.15.1983 … FLASHDANCE (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.25.1983 … RETURN OF THE JEDI (21 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
10.21.1983 … UNDER FIRE (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.23.1983 … TERMS OF ENDEARMENT (15 weeks)

03.09.1984 … THE HOTEL NEW HAMPSHIRE (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.06.1984 … MOSCOW ON THE HUDSON (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.18.1984 … theater closed (1 week)
05.23.1984 … INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM (19 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
10.05.1984 … TEACHERS (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
10.19.1984 … CRIMES OF PASSION (4 weeks)
11.16.1984 … JUST THE WAY YOU ARE (1 week)
11.23.1984 … INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM (RE, 2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.07.1984 … 2010 (9 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

02.08.1985 … WITNESS (15 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.24.1985 … A VIEW TO A KILL (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
07.12.1985 … EXPLORERS (3 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
08.02.1985 … WEIRD SCIENCE (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.16.1985 … YEAR OF THE DRAGON (6 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
09.27.1985 … THE STUFF (3 weeks)
10.18.1985 … CEASE FIRE (2 weeks)
11.01.1985 … TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A. (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.04.1985 … YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES (8 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

01.31.1986 … YOUNGBLOOD (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
02.14.1986 … OUT OF AFRICA (MO, 2 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
02.28.1986 … PRETTY IN PINK (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
03.26.1986 … THE MONEY PIT (3 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
04.18.1986 … LEGEND (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.16.1986 … TOP GUN (7 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
07.02.1986 … PSYCHO III (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.01.1986 … HOWARD THE DUCK (3 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
08.22.1986 … NIGHT OF THE CREEPS (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.26.1986 … “CROCODILE” DUNDEE (8 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.21.1986 … AN AMERICAN TAIL (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.19.1986 … PLATOON (18 weeks, Dolby Stereo)

04.24.1987 … EXTREME PREJUDICE (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.20.1987 … BEVERLY HILLS COP II (10 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
07.31.1987 … THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.28.1987 … HAMBURGER HILL (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.25.1987 … BEST SELLER (5 weeks)
10.30.1987 … FATAL BEAUTY (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.25.1987 … PLANES, TRAINS AND AUTOMOBILES (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo)

01.15.1988 … THE COUCH TRIP (3 weeks)
02.05.1988 … COP (3 weeks)
02.26.1988 … APPRENTICE TO MURDER (2 weeks)
03.11.1988 … VICE VERSA (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.01.1988 … BRIGHT LIGHTS, BIG CITY. (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.15.1988 … COLORS (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
05.13.1988 … FRIDAY THE 13TH PART VII: THE NEW BLOOD (2 weeks, Ultra Stereo)
05.25.1988 … “CROCODILE” DUNDEE II (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
06.29.1988 … COMING TO AMERICA (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.19.1988 … A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 4: THE DREAM MASTER (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.16.1988 … TOUGHER THAN LEATHER (2 weeks)
09.30.1988 … ELVIRA, MISTRESS OF THE DARK (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.04.1988 … U2: RATTLE AND HUM (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
11.23.1988 … SCROOGED (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)

01.13.1989 … I’M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA (5 weeks, Ultra Stereo)
02.17.1989 … THE MIGHTY QUINN (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
03.03.1989 … FAREWELL TO THE KING (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.17.1989 … LEVIATHAN (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
04.07.1989 … MAJOR LEAGUE (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.21.1989 … PET SEMATARY (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.24.1989 … INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE (7 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo SR)
07.14.1989 … LICENCE TO KILL (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
08.11.1989 … A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 5: THE DREAM CHILD (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.30.1989 … RELENTLESS (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.22.1989 … BLACK RAIN (6 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
11.03.1989 … STEPFATHER 2 (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.17.1989 … HARLEM NIGHTS (8 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)

posted by Michael Coate on Apr 16, 2008 at 7:14pm

Just by looking at these bookings, you could see how the movie business was changing in the 80's. Pictures in the early 80's were running 19, 20, 21 weeks or more, whereas in the late 80's, the most you could get was 7 weeks. And you were lucky to get that.

posted by movie534 on Apr 16, 2008 at 7:22pm

These days, you're lucky to get four weeks in a theater out of any movie, whether it's playing at the local multiplex, or a major movie palace. DVD seems to count for more than a theatrical release nowadays.

posted by AdamBomb1701 on May 6, 2008 at 9:06am

You got that right. Did you know the DVD's are already made when the films are released? I laugh when everyone says Indy 4 is going to last ALL summer. I'll bet it will be dead and out of gas by July 4th. Take that to the bank!!!

posted by movie534 on May 6, 2008 at 9:17am

It's so true, they are out too fast. I wanted to see American Gangster in the theater last Dec, but by the time I got around to it, all the theaters didn't have it anymore already!

posted by Bway on May 6, 2008 at 9:26am

ASTOR PLAZA
Part III: The 1990s

Loews: 1990-94
Sony: 1994-98
Loews Cineplex: 1998-99

01.12.1990 … INTERNAL AFFAIRS (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
02.02.1990 … HEART CONDITION (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
03.02.1990 … THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER (9 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
05.04.1990 … TALES FROM THE DARKSIDE: THE MOVIE (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
06.08.1990 … ANOTHER 48 HRS. (9 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
08.10.1990 … THE TWO JAKES (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
08.31.1990 … THE LEMON SISTERS (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.14.1990 … DEATH WARRANT (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.28.1990 … KING OF NEW YORK (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
10.26.1990 … GRAVEYARD SHIFT (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
11.16.1990 … ROCKY V (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
12.25.1990 … THE GODFATHER PART III (7 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)

02.14.1991 … THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.22.1991 … TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES II (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.03.1991 … A RAGE IN HARLEM (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
06.07.1991 … CITY SLICKERS (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
07.12.1991 … BOYZ N THE HOOD (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
08.23.1991 … DEAD AGAIN (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
09.27.1991 … NECESSARY ROUGHNESS (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
10.11.1991 … FRANKIE & JOHNNY (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.22.1991 … THE ADDAMS FAMILY (8 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)

01.17.1992 … JUICE (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
02.14.1992 … WAYNE’S WORLD (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.27.1992 … LADYBUGS (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.10.1992 … SLEEPWALKERS (8 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
06.05.1992 … PATRIOT GAMES (5 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
07.10.1992 … COOL WORLD (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
07.24.1992 … MO’ MONEY (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
08.28.1992 … PET SEMATARY TWO (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
10.09.1992 … 1492: CONQUEST OF PARADISE (3 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo)
10.30.1992 … RAMPAGE (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
11.13.1992 … BRAM STOKER’S DRACULA (5 weeks, Dolby Digital)
12.18.1992 … LEAP OF FAITH (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)

01.15.1993 … NOWHERE TO RUN (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
02.12.1993 … THE TEMP (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
03.12.1993 … FIRE IN THE SKY (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
04.07.1993 … INDECENT PROPOSAL (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.21.1993 … SLIVER (6 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
06.30.1993 … THE FIRM (8 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
08.27.1993 … NEEDFUL THINGS (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
09.17.1993 … STRIKING DISTANCE (7 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
11.05.1993 … FLESH AND BONE (2 weeks, DTS)
11.19.1993 … ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES (9 weeks, Dolby Digital)

01.21.1994 … INTERSECTION (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
02.18.1994 … BLUE CHIPS (4 weeks, DTS)
03.18.1994 … NAKED GUN 33 1/3: THE FINAL INSULT (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
04.22.1994 … BRAINSCAN (5 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
05.25.1994 … BEVERLY HILLS COP III (6 weeks, DTS)
07.06.1994 … FORREST GUMP (4 weeks, DTS)
08.03.1994 … CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER (8 weeks, DTS)
09.28.1994 … JASON’S LYRIC (4 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
10.28.1994 … DROP SQUAD (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.18.1994 … THE PROFESSIONAL (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
12.09.1994 … DROP ZONE (8 weeks, DTS)

02.03.1995 … IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS (4 weeks, DTS)
03.03.1995 … THE MANGLER (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.17.1995 … CANDYMAN: FAREWELL TO THE FLESH (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.31.1995 … TOMMY BOY (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
04.19.1995 … NEW JERSEY DRIVE (2 weeks, DTS)
05.03.1995 … PANTHER (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
05.26.1995 … PANTHER / BAD BOYS (MO, 2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
06.09.1995 … CONGO (4 weeks, DTS)
07.07.1995 … SPECIES (4 weeks, DTS)
08.04.1995 … VIRTUOSITY (4 weeks, DTS)
09.01.1995 … THE PROPHECY (6 weeks, Ultra Stereo)
10.13.1995 … JADE (6 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.22.1995 … NICK OF TIME (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
12.15.1995 … SABRINA (4 weeks, Dolby Digital)

01.12.1996 … EYE FOR AN EYE (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
02.02.1996 … BLACK SHEEP (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
02.23.1996 … BLACK SHEEP / BRAVEHEART (RE, 1 week, Dolby Digital)
03.01.1996 … BRAVEHEART (RE, 1 week, Dolby Digital)
03.08.1996 … HELLRAISER: BLOODLINE (4 weeks, Dolby Digital)
04.03.1996 … PRIMAL FEAR (6 weeks, Dolby Digital)
05.17.1996 … HEAVEN’S PRISONERS (2 weeks, SDDS)
05.31.1996 … THE ARRIVAL (1 week, SDDS)
06.07.1996 … THE PHANTOM (2 weeks, DTS)
06.21.1996 … MISSION: IMPOSIBLE (MO, 5 weeks, Dolby Digital)
07.26.1996 … KINGPIN (2 weeks, DTS)
08.09.1996 … ESCAPE FROM L.A. (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
08.23.1996 … THE ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU (3 weeks, SDDS)
09.13.1996 … theater closed (2 weeks)
09.27.1996 … 2 DAYS IN THE VALLEY (2 weeks, DTS)
10.11.1996 … THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS (6 weeks, DTS)
11.22.1996 … STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT (4 weeks, DTS)
12.20.1996 … SCREAM (6 weeks, Dolby Digital)

01.29.1997 … GRIDLOCK’D (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
02.21.1997 … BLOOD & WINE (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo)
03.07.1997 … PRIVATE PARTS (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
03.21.1997 … THE GODFATHER (RE, 3 weeks, DTS)
04.11.1997 … ANACONDA (3 weeks, SDDS)
05.02.1997 … BREAKDOWN (7 weeks, Dolby Digital)
06.20.1997 … BATMAN & ROBIN (3 weeks, SDDS)
07.11.1997 … CONTACT (3 weeks, SDDS)
08.01.1997 … SPAWN (2 weeks, SDDS)
08.15.1997 … EVENT HORIZON (2 weeks, DTS)
08.27.1997 … HOODLUM (2 weeks, DTS)
09.12.1997 … THE GAME (3 weeks, DTS)
10.03.1997 … KISS THE GIRLS (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
10.17.1997 … THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE (5 weeks, SDDS)
11.21.1997 … MORTAL KOMBAT: ANNIHILATION (3 weeks, SDDS)
12.12.1997 … THE RAINMAKER (MO, 1 week, Dolby Digital)
12.19.1997 … TITANIC (15 weeks, 70mm-DTS)

04.03.1998 … LOST IN SPACE (3 weeks, SDDS)
04.24.1998 … THE BIG HIT (2 weeks, SDDS)
05.08.1998 … DEEP IMPACT (4 weeks, SDDS)
06.05.1998 … THE TRUMAN SHOW (5 weeks, DTS)
07.10.1998 … LETHAL WEAPON 4 (4 weeks, SDDS)
08.05.1998 … HALLOWEEN: H20 (1 week, Dolby Digital)
08.14.1998 … HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK (2 weeks, DTS)
08.28.1998 … 54 (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
09.18.1998 … RUSH HOUR (4 weeks, SDDS)
10.16.1998 … PRACTICAL MAGIC (3 weeks, SDDS)
11.06.1998 … THE WIZARD OF OZ (RE, 2 weeks, SDDS)
11.20.1998 … CELEBRITY (3 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
12.11.1998 … STAR TREK: INSURRECTION (2 weeks, DTS)
12.25.1998 … THE FACULTY (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)

01.15.1999 … VIRUS (3 weeks, SDDS)
02.05.1999 … PAYBACK (5 weeks, DTS)
03.12.1999 … THE CORRUPTOR (3 weeks, SDDS)
03.31.1999 … THE MATRIX (5 weeks, SDDS)
05.07.1999 … THE MUMMY (6 weeks, SDDS)
06.18.1999 … THE GENERAL’S DAUGHTER (2 weeks, DTS)
06.30.1999 … WILD WILD WEST (2 weeks, SDDS)
07.16.1999 … EYES WIDE SHUT (2 weeks, SDDS)
07.30.1999 … RUNAWAY BRIDE (3 weeks, DTS)
08.20.1999 … MICKEY BLUE EYES (3 weeks, SDDS)
09.10.1999 … STIGMATA (2 weeks, DTS)
09.24.1999 … DOUBLE JEOPARDY (4 weeks, Dolby Digital)
10.22.1999 … BRINGING OUT THE DEAD (4 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.19.1999 … THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (3 weeks, DTS)
12.10.1999 … THE GREEN MILE (5 weeks, SDDS)

posted by Michael Coate on May 7, 2008 at 1:38pm

ASTOR PLAZA
Part IV: The 2000s

Loews Cineplex: 2000-04

01.12.2000 … NEXT FRIDAY (7 weeks, SDDS)
03.01.2000 … 3 STRIKES (2 weeks, Dolby Stereo SR)
03.17.2000 … FINAL DESTINATION (7 weeks, SDDS)
05.05.2000 … GLADIATOR (8 weeks, SDDS)
06.28.2000 … THE PATRIOT (3 weeks, SDDS-8)
07.21.2000 … WHAT LIES BENEATH (9 weeks, SDDS)
09.22.2000 … THE EXORCIST (RE, “The Version You’ve Never Seen,” 5 weeks, SDDS)
10.27.2000 … BOOK OF SHADOWS: BLAIR WITCH 2 (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.10.2000 … RED PLANET (5 weeks, SDDS)
12.15.2000 … GLADIATOR (RE, 1 week, SDDS)
12.22.2000 … CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON (7 weeks, Dolby Digital)

02.09.2001 … HANNIBAL (6 weeks, SDDS)
03.23.2001 … TRAFFIC (MO, 4 weeks, Dolby Digital)
04.20.2001 … CROCODILE DUNDEE IN LOS ANGELES (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
05.04.2001 … MEMENTO (MO, 5 weeks, Dolby Digital)
06.08.2001 … EVOLUTION (3 weeks, SDDS)
06.29.2001 … BABY BOY (5 weeks, SDDS)
08.03.2001 … APOCALYPSE NOW REDUX (RE, 10 weeks, Dolby Digital)
10.12.2001 … IRON MONKEY (3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.02.2001 … BANDITS (MO, 3 weeks, SDDS)
11.23.2001 … TITANIC (RE, 1 week, format ?)
11.30.2001 … DOMESTIC DISTURBANCE (MO, 2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
12.14.2001 … 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY (RE, 4 weeks, 70mm-Dolby Stereo SR)

01.11.2002 … APOCALYPSE NOW REDUX (RE, 2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
01.25.2002 … THE OTHERS (MO, 2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
02.08.2002 … COLLATERAL DAMAGE (6 weeks, Dolby Digital)
03.22.2002 … BLADE II (4 weeks, SDDS)
04.19.2002 … THE SCORPION KING (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
05.03.2002 … SPIDER-MAN (4 weeks, SDDS-8)
05.31.2002 … THE SUM OF ALL FEARS (4 weeks, Dolby Digital)
06.28.2002 … MR. DEEDS (2 weeks, SDDS)
07.12.2002 … HALLOWEEN: RESURRECTION (1 week, Dolby Digital)
07.19.2002 … K-19: THE WIDOWMAKER (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
08.02.2002 … SIGNS (3 weeks, SDDS)
08.23.2002 … UNDISPUTED (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
09.06.2002 … CITY BY THE SEA (2 weeks, SDDS)
09.20.2002 … BALLISTIC: ECKS VS. SEVER (4 weeks, SDDS)
10.18.2002 … BLOODY SUNDAY (1 week, Dolby Digital)
10.25.2002 … JACKASS: THE MOVIE (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.08.2002 … 8 MILE (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
11.22.2002 … DIE ANOTHER DAY (4 weeks, SDDS)
12.18.2002 … THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS (4 weeks, SDDS)

01.17.2003 … NATIONAL SECURITY (2 weeks, SDDS)
01.31.2003 … BIKER BOYZ (3 weeks, SDDS)
02.21.2003 … DARK BLUE (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
03.07.2003 … GANGS OF NEW YORK (MO, 3 weeks, Dolby Digital)
03.28.2003 … THE CORE (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
04.11.2003 … ANGER MANAGEMENT (4 weeks, SDDS)
05.09.2003 … IDENTITY (MO, 2 weeks, SDDS)
05.23.2003 … BRUCE ALMIGHTY (6 weeks, Dolby Digital)
07.02.2003 … TERMINATOR 3: RISE OF THE MACHINES (2 weeks, SDDS)
07.18.2003 … BAD BOYS II (3 weeks, SDDS-8)
08.08.2003 … S.W.A.T. (5 weeks, SDDS-8)
09.12.2003 … ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO (2 weeks, SDDS)
09.26.2003 … THE RUNDOWN (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
10.10.2003 … KILL BILL VOL. 1 (4 weeks, SDDS)
11.05.2003 … THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS (2 weeks, SDDS)
11.21.2003 … GOTHIKA (4 weeks, SDDS)
12.17.2003 … THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (6 weeks, SDDS)

01.30.2004 … YOU GOT SERVED (3 weeks, SDDS)
02.20.2004 … AGAINST THE ROPES (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
03.05.2004 … STARSKY & HUTCH (2 weeks, SDDS)
03.19.2004 … TAKING LIVES (2 weeks, SDDS)
04.02.2004 … HELLBOY (2 weeks, SDDS)
04.16.2004 … THE PUNISHER (3 weeks, SDDS)
05.07.2004 … VAN HELSING (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
05.19.2004 … SHREK 2 (2 weeks, Dolby Digital)
06.04.2004 … HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN (4 weeks, SDDS)
06.30.2004 … SPIDER-MAN 2 (4 weeks, SDDS-8)
07.30.2004 … THE VILLAGE (3 days, SDDS)
08.02.2004 … theater closed

The principal reference was microfilm of The New York Times and Village Voice newspapers.

posted by Michael Coate on May 8, 2008 at 1:21am

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