was the original Vitascope Hall of 1896
built from the ground up with the sole intent
of showing flickers or was it simple a
already existing retail space redone as a
movie theater?
the Crescent/Gem was designed and built to
showcase films as well as vaudeville and as
such opened on the night of Dec. 16, 1909.
so doesn’t that make it the 1st theater built
brick by brick from the ground up in Manhattan
for the purpose of showing movies?
for the next several years after the faithful
night of April 23, 1896 at Koster and Bial’s
Music Hall i should think any “movie theaters”
that existed in Manhattan were simply music halls
and vaudeville/legitimate theaters converted to
show flickers as they were known.
I read the article for which Mike posted the link
in which Charles B. Moss Jr. the CEO of Bow Tie is
interviewed. he states the Chelsea multiplex will
get a redo since unlike the Ziegfeld Clearview has let
let it grow shabby over the years. I just went to the
theater this past Sat. 6/29 to see “I’m So Excited”
and the theater was in fine shape. in fact the
redesign done by Clearview after they took over
from Cineplex Odeon is still in great shape. so how
is the Chelsea in shabby condition?
the Ziegfeld is in fact in “shabbier” shape per se
since they’ve never bothered fixing the curtain.
shouldn’t the last line in the intro be changed?
the original Cinerama roadshow engagement of “2001”
did not end when the Capitol was closed previous
to being demolished. it immediately continued at
the Warner Cinerama at 47th St. and Bway.
i appreciate Escott N.’s thoughts on the 3-D retro-
fitting of “The Wizard of Oz”. i saw “Man of Steel”
this past weekend and the 3-Dness of the 3-D was
negligible. so i simply don’t see how they can use
elements of a film made in 1939 to successfully do
a retrofit.
i wonder if anyone especially the theater’s
management has realized that the info on the
plaques next to the auditoriums entrances aren’t always? for instance the plaque for the Loew’s
Capitol says it was torn down at the end of
1967. so i wonder how i saw “2001: A Space
Odyssey” in its original Cinerama roadshow
engagement at the Capitol the last week of
April 1968? i am highly surprised even shocked
to a certain degree that the plaques weren’t
fact checked before they were put up.
i’m wondering how many of my fellow posters
attended all 3 roadshow engagements hosted by
this theater-A Man for All Seasons, The Charge
of the Light Brigade and The Trojan Women.
The Fine Arts is the only art house that i can think of that hosted more than 1 roadshow engagement.
i hope this isn’t a silly question. if the
auditorium is being done over into an IMAX
theater does that mean it can only play IMAX
movies? if that is correct then doesn’t that
limit the commercial viability of the theater?
“Robin Hood” with Douglas Fairbanks opened in
L.A. at Grauman’s Egyptian Theater. in fact it
was the theater’s debut film and played there
for 2 years.
I saw The Great Gatsby yesterday 5/11 at the
12:00p.m. showing. i arrived the theater a few
minutes before film began and was pleasantly
surprised how many people were in the audience.
in fact the crowd for the next showing 3:15
was a decent size as well. this is notable
when you consider how many other theaters in
Manhattan the film is playing at.
thanks for the info about roadshow engagements in the Hollywood/L.A. area. being a New Yorker i have always been interested in which theaters in the Hollywood/L.A. area were the ones traditionally used by the studios for reserved seat movies as me and my friends called them.
speaking of which. i believe it was somewhere on
this site that i saw an ad from the fall of 1960
announcing the start of mail orders for the roadshow
run of “Exodus” at the Wiltern Theater on Wilshire Blvd. to the best of your recollection was that
the only roadshow enagagement that the Wiltern
ever hosted?
a history question. down thru the years
Grauman’s Chinese(i refuse to call it by
any other name) hosted many exclusive
first run engagements of big films when
studios still opened their big releases in
only one theater. this is where my question
comes in- other than the roadshow engagement
of “West Side Story” did the Chinese host
any other roadshow engagements?
well i was in the area again this past weekend
and decided to see exactly what was at 100 3rd Ave.
in my post on the other page i noted there was a
fairly tall new structure in the middle of the
block which i had viewed from the other side of
the street. well guess what? that new structure
which is either 6 or 7 stories is in fact 100
3rd Avenue. its now a fancy upscale bar. the
door was open and i noticed a doorman/bouncer.
its possible he knew nothing about the history of
the building but it didn’t hurt to ask. so i asked
him if the new structure was in fact a completely
new building. well he did in fact know of the
Lyric Theater. i hope i correctly understood him
in that the trendy upscale bar and the additional
floors are built within and upon the original
building and not is not completely new.
the famous photo with the Chaplin cut out
next to the box office always made the theater
look bigger than it actually was. it was
viable as a theater in that it was quite long
as opposed to wide so a decent number of seats
could have been accomodated.
as always thanks for the info. as i said in my
previous post i wasn’t completely ruling out the
existence of a Lyric Theater on 3rd Ave. between
12th & 13th i just didn’t see how it was
possible. all of the buildings on the left side
of 3rd Ave. between 12th & 13th St. are rather
small/narrow so i do see how only one building
could possible have housed a movie theater of
any note. is it possible that when it was the
Lyric has captured in the famous photo that the
auditorium per se was in fact a combination of
two buildings? i only remember it as the Bijou
a gay porn house and assumed the Bijou was
housed in only half of the original building.
also take a look at the photo again. since it
was taken in the late 30s shouldn’t there be a shadow from the 3rd Avenue El?
you have been most helpful with questions i have
had since i discovered this website. now they say
if you search the Internet long enough you’ll find
what you’re looking for but that’s not strictly
true. this where your help comes in.
there is a well known photo i believe by Bernice
Abbot of a Lyric Theater on 3rd Ave. between 12th
and 13th Sts. the date the photo was taken is
given as 4/24/36. the headline film for the day
is a Chaplin flick noted by a cardboard cut out of
Charlie himself directly to the right of the
box office. my point being i don’t think there
was ever a movie theater called the Lyric on
3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts.
i was in the area this past weekend so i decided
to investigate. if you look at the left side of
3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts. all the
building are older than the theater would have
been. there is a newer building in the middle of
the block but it only occupies the space between
the two adjacent older buildings. also the front
is way to narrow when you consider how wide
the front of the Lyric is in the photo. also the
same thing happens if you look at the right side
of 3rd Ave. between 12th. and 13th Sts. all the
buildings seem as old or older than the theater
would have been. again there is a newer building
in the middle of the block but it again only
occupies the space between the two adjacent
older buildings. likewise the front is way to
narrow to be be occupying the same space as the
theater’s wide front did.
my point being as evidenced by my survey this
past weekend there may very well have been a
Lyric Theater with a wide front showing a Chaplin film on 4/24/36 in Manhattan but i don’t see
how it could possibly have been located on
3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts.
speaking of the legit theaters that once
were located on the south side of 42 St.
between 7th and 8th Aves. the Lew Fields
Theater was razed because it had been redone
so many times there was no point trying to
renovate it. the American was razed in 1931
after being heavily damaged in a fire.
the Eltinge was renovated and is now the
lobby for the AMC Multiplex. the Liberty
is now used as a restaurant and the New
Amsterdam was renovated back to its 1903
glory. so my question is simple- when the
renovation for the “new” 42 St. began in
earnest in the early 90s what was the state
of the Candler Theater? was it in such bad
shape they decided to demolish it or was
it in perfectly renovatable shape but no
one wanted to spend the money so it was
razed.
i can see my phrasing was a bit off. i should
have asked when the Columbia/Mayfair/Demille/
Embassy 1-2-3- interior was gutted after it closed
up shop as a movie theater where exactly was the
Famous Dave’s BBQ located? i have been a
frequent TKTS booth customer and never remember
a sign stating the former theater interior
contained such a restaurant.
this is a question i have been wanting to
make for a while. the Columbia/Mayfair/
Demille/Embassy 1-2-3 may have been gutted
but where is the Famous Dave’s BBQ the
interior now allegedly contains?
i most certainly second Mike’s thought that
the “Palace-NYC” photo is in fact an artists
rendering of what the proposed building might
look like. i use the TKTS booth on a regular
basis so i know from 1st hand experience what
the Palace looks like. the front office building
part was NEVER that wide.
thank for mentioning the two/three a day reserved
seat engagement of TLTIP at the Trans Lux East.i
had forgotten about it. it was always
my opinion that United Artists opened the film on
such an engagement to give it prestige. such a
engagement was certainly not mandated by the cost
of making the film.
also thanks about the “party room” mention on
ticket order forms for the Demille’s roadshow
runs. i can swear i remember seeing “divans” on
its ticket order forms. oh, well. i was maybe
99% certain.
i am certain that when the Demille was one of
the premiere roadshow houses in the Times Square
ares they also had “divans” listed as a section
on the ticket order forms.
if i am not mistaken after the roadshow run of
“Fiddle on the Roof” at the Rivoli the fall of
1971 the remaining such engagements to open in
the big Times Square houses were “Nicholas and
Alexandra” at the Criterion Dec. 1971 and “Man
of La Mancha” Dec. 1972 at the Rivoli. also
to be included is the roadshow run of “The
Trojan Women” at the Fines Arts the fall of 1971.
i guess the lackluster receipts for the roadshow
engagements of “Man…..” was the proverbial final
nail in the coffin. the studios subsequently
discontinued the policy.
the exclusive 1st run engagements of “Ryan’s
Daughter” and “Apocalypse Now” were reserved
performance engagements. for people not
familiar with said runs they were similar to
reserved seat engagements in that you could by
tickets ahead of time but what seat you got
was up in the air. for instance if such a film
was quite popular and you got to the theater
five minutes before the film began you were
guaranteed a seat but in might be all the way
in the back in the corner. i’m guessing the
studios thought this type engagement up since
it had way less overhead then a traditional
reserved seat run. for instance you didn’t need
ushers.
the first such run in Manhattan i can remember
was “Fellini’s Satryricon” which opened March of
1970 at the late but great Little Carnegie.
also to put my two cents in i don’t consider the
special two week engagements of “Dreamgirls” or
“The Princess and the Frog” before they opened
wide true reserved seat runs. so i do believe as
i said in my original post that the theater’s
opening film “Marooned” was the first and only
traditional studio roadshow engagement it has
hosted.
was the original Vitascope Hall of 1896 built from the ground up with the sole intent of showing flickers or was it simple a already existing retail space redone as a movie theater?
Hello-
the Crescent/Gem was designed and built to showcase films as well as vaudeville and as such opened on the night of Dec. 16, 1909. so doesn’t that make it the 1st theater built brick by brick from the ground up in Manhattan for the purpose of showing movies?
for the next several years after the faithful night of April 23, 1896 at Koster and Bial’s Music Hall i should think any “movie theaters” that existed in Manhattan were simply music halls and vaudeville/legitimate theaters converted to show flickers as they were known.
Hello-
I read the article for which Mike posted the link in which Charles B. Moss Jr. the CEO of Bow Tie is interviewed. he states the Chelsea multiplex will get a redo since unlike the Ziegfeld Clearview has let let it grow shabby over the years. I just went to the theater this past Sat. 6/29 to see “I’m So Excited” and the theater was in fine shape. in fact the redesign done by Clearview after they took over
from Cineplex Odeon is still in great shape. so how is the Chelsea in shabby condition?
the Ziegfeld is in fact in “shabbier” shape per se since they’ve never bothered fixing the curtain.
Hello-
shouldn’t the last line in the intro be changed? the original Cinerama roadshow engagement of “2001” did not end when the Capitol was closed previous to being demolished. it immediately continued at the Warner Cinerama at 47th St. and Bway.
Hello-
i appreciate Escott N.’s thoughts on the 3-D retro- fitting of “The Wizard of Oz”. i saw “Man of Steel” this past weekend and the 3-Dness of the 3-D was negligible. so i simply don’t see how they can use elements of a film made in 1939 to successfully do a retrofit.
Hello-
i have been wondering how can they retrofit a film from 1939 into 3-D? it seems to me to be just greed to get as much $$$ out of the public.
in fact i have seen few films actually shot in
3-D where the 3-D was worth higher surcharge.
Hello-
i wonder if anyone especially the theater’s management has realized that the info on the plaques next to the auditoriums entrances aren’t always? for instance the plaque for the Loew’s Capitol says it was torn down at the end of 1967. so i wonder how i saw “2001: A Space Odyssey” in its original Cinerama roadshow engagement at the Capitol the last week of April 1968? i am highly surprised even shocked to a certain degree that the plaques weren’t fact checked before they were put up.
Hello-
i’m wondering how many of my fellow posters attended all 3 roadshow engagements hosted by this theater-A Man for All Seasons, The Charge of the Light Brigade and The Trojan Women.
The Fine Arts is the only art house that i can
think of that hosted more than 1 roadshow engagement.
Hello From NYC-
i hope this isn’t a silly question. if the auditorium is being done over into an IMAX theater does that mean it can only play IMAX movies? if that is correct then doesn’t that limit the commercial viability of the theater?
“Robin Hood” with Douglas Fairbanks opened in L.A. at Grauman’s Egyptian Theater. in fact it was the theater’s debut film and played there for 2 years.
I saw The Great Gatsby yesterday 5/11 at the 12:00p.m. showing. i arrived the theater a few minutes before film began and was pleasantly surprised how many people were in the audience. in fact the crowd for the next showing 3:15 was a decent size as well. this is notable when you consider how many other theaters in Manhattan the film is playing at.
to Joe Vogel-
thanks for the info about roadshow engagements
in the Hollywood/L.A. area. being a New Yorker
i have always been interested in which theaters
in the Hollywood/L.A. area were the ones traditionally used by the studios for reserved
seat movies as me and my friends called them.
speaking of which. i believe it was somewhere on this site that i saw an ad from the fall of 1960 announcing the start of mail orders for the roadshow run of “Exodus” at the Wiltern Theater on Wilshire Blvd. to the best of your recollection was that the only roadshow enagagement that the Wiltern ever hosted?
Hello From NYC-
a history question. down thru the years Grauman’s Chinese(i refuse to call it by any other name) hosted many exclusive first run engagements of big films when studios still opened their big releases in only one theater. this is where my question comes in- other than the roadshow engagement of “West Side Story” did the Chinese host any other roadshow engagements?
hello to Tinseltoes-
you certainly make a valid point. so this past weekend i did some further investigating. the notes of which are posted on the Lyric/Bijou’s own page.
Hello-
well i was in the area again this past weekend and decided to see exactly what was at 100 3rd Ave.
in my post on the other page i noted there was a fairly tall new structure in the middle of the block which i had viewed from the other side of the street. well guess what? that new structure which is either 6 or 7 stories is in fact 100 3rd Avenue. its now a fancy upscale bar. the door was open and i noticed a doorman/bouncer. its possible he knew nothing about the history of the building but it didn’t hurt to ask. so i asked him if the new structure was in fact a completely new building. well he did in fact know of the Lyric Theater. i hope i correctly understood him in that the trendy upscale bar and the additional floors are built within and upon the original building and not is not completely new.
the famous photo with the Chaplin cut out next to the box office always made the theater look bigger than it actually was. it was viable as a theater in that it was quite long as opposed to wide so a decent number of seats could have been accomodated.
to Al A.–
as always thanks for the info. as i said in my previous post i wasn’t completely ruling out the existence of a Lyric Theater on 3rd Ave. between 12th & 13th i just didn’t see how it was possible. all of the buildings on the left side of 3rd Ave. between 12th & 13th St. are rather small/narrow so i do see how only one building could possible have housed a movie theater of any note. is it possible that when it was the Lyric has captured in the famous photo that the auditorium per se was in fact a combination of two buildings? i only remember it as the Bijou a gay porn house and assumed the Bijou was housed in only half of the original building.
also take a look at the photo again. since it was taken in the late 30s shouldn’t there be a shadow from the 3rd Avenue El?
Hello to Al A.–
you have been most helpful with questions i have had since i discovered this website. now they say if you search the Internet long enough you’ll find what you’re looking for but that’s not strictly true. this where your help comes in.
there is a well known photo i believe by Bernice Abbot of a Lyric Theater on 3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts. the date the photo was taken is given as 4/24/36. the headline film for the day is a Chaplin flick noted by a cardboard cut out of Charlie himself directly to the right of the box office. my point being i don’t think there was ever a movie theater called the Lyric on 3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts.
i was in the area this past weekend so i decided to investigate. if you look at the left side of 3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts. all the building are older than the theater would have been. there is a newer building in the middle of the block but it only occupies the space between the two adjacent older buildings. also the front is way to narrow when you consider how wide the front of the Lyric is in the photo. also the same thing happens if you look at the right side of 3rd Ave. between 12th. and 13th Sts. all the buildings seem as old or older than the theater would have been. again there is a newer building in the middle of the block but it again only occupies the space between the two adjacent older buildings. likewise the front is way to narrow to be be occupying the same space as the theater’s wide front did.
my point being as evidenced by my survey this past weekend there may very well have been a Lyric Theater with a wide front showing a Chaplin film on 4/24/36 in Manhattan but i don’t see how it could possibly have been located on 3rd Ave. between 12th and 13th Sts.
Hello-
oddly enough the Bleeker Street Cinema always played porn during its final years. i believe it was gay rather than straight.
Hello Again-
speaking of the legit theaters that once were located on the south side of 42 St. between 7th and 8th Aves. the Lew Fields Theater was razed because it had been redone so many times there was no point trying to renovate it. the American was razed in 1931 after being heavily damaged in a fire. the Eltinge was renovated and is now the lobby for the AMC Multiplex. the Liberty is now used as a restaurant and the New Amsterdam was renovated back to its 1903 glory. so my question is simple- when the renovation for the “new” 42 St. began in earnest in the early 90s what was the state of the Candler Theater? was it in such bad shape they decided to demolish it or was it in perfectly renovatable shape but no one wanted to spend the money so it was razed.
Hello Again-
i can see my phrasing was a bit off. i should have asked when the Columbia/Mayfair/Demille/ Embassy 1-2-3- interior was gutted after it closed up shop as a movie theater where exactly was the Famous Dave’s BBQ located? i have been a frequent TKTS booth customer and never remember a sign stating the former theater interior contained such a restaurant.
Hello-
this is a question i have been wanting to make for a while. the Columbia/Mayfair/ Demille/Embassy 1-2-3 may have been gutted but where is the Famous Dave’s BBQ the
interior now allegedly contains?
Hello-
i most certainly second Mike’s thought that the “Palace-NYC” photo is in fact an artists rendering of what the proposed building might look like. i use the TKTS booth on a regular basis so i know from 1st hand experience what the Palace looks like. the front office building part was NEVER that wide.
To Al A.–
thank for mentioning the two/three a day reserved seat engagement of TLTIP at the Trans Lux East.i had forgotten about it. it was always my opinion that United Artists opened the film on such an engagement to give it prestige. such a engagement was certainly not mandated by the cost of making the film.
also thanks about the “party room” mention on ticket order forms for the Demille’s roadshow runs. i can swear i remember seeing “divans” on its ticket order forms. oh, well. i was maybe 99% certain.
Hello-
i am certain that when the Demille was one of the premiere roadshow houses in the Times Square ares they also had “divans” listed as a section on the ticket order forms.
if i am not mistaken after the roadshow run of “Fiddle on the Roof” at the Rivoli the fall of 1971 the remaining such engagements to open in the big Times Square houses were “Nicholas and Alexandra” at the Criterion Dec. 1971 and “Man of La Mancha” Dec. 1972 at the Rivoli. also to be included is the roadshow run of “The Trojan Women” at the Fines Arts the fall of 1971.
i guess the lackluster receipts for the roadshow engagements of “Man…..” was the proverbial final nail in the coffin. the studios subsequently discontinued the policy.
Hello Again-
the exclusive 1st run engagements of “Ryan’s Daughter” and “Apocalypse Now” were reserved performance engagements. for people not familiar with said runs they were similar to reserved seat engagements in that you could by tickets ahead of time but what seat you got was up in the air. for instance if such a film was quite popular and you got to the theater five minutes before the film began you were guaranteed a seat but in might be all the way in the back in the corner. i’m guessing the studios thought this type engagement up since it had way less overhead then a traditional reserved seat run. for instance you didn’t need ushers.
the first such run in Manhattan i can remember was “Fellini’s Satryricon” which opened March of 1970 at the late but great Little Carnegie.
also to put my two cents in i don’t consider the special two week engagements of “Dreamgirls” or “The Princess and the Frog” before they opened wide true reserved seat runs. so i do believe as i said in my original post that the theater’s opening film “Marooned” was the first and only traditional studio roadshow engagement it has hosted.