bigjoe59…Does this book say where W&P played as a roadshow? It’s first engagement was in NY at the Capitol where the 8/22 ad states — “Regular continuous performances start TODAY. Doors open 930 am. Come anytime between 10 am and 845 pm and see a complete showing of the picture”. It was the same in Hollywood(Paramount) and Chicago (State Lake) — markets 1, 2 and 3. Also Boston (Metropolitan), Toronto (Imperial),DC (Capitol) and at least 9 others I checked. For a movie to be a roadshow ads must say “All Seats Reserved” or “Reserved Seats Only” and sell first tickets by mail order starting at least one month before opening. This is the one unique requirement. It doesn’t have anything to do with length, intermission, souvenir programs, process, etc. This picture was not a roadshow. The book is wrong.
bigjoe59…Simple—it doesn’t have an intermission because it wasn’t a roadshow. You always ask questions but never answer any. Your “rather large collection of souvenir programs"should answer my questions of Sep 14 on the Embassy 1,2,3 page. Can’t you help me with this?
Coate…It doesn’t, other than to make you aware of perhaps inaccurate information you have posted that needs addressing. Besides, what does a not quite complete list of Circus World engagements have to do with the Uptown specifically. I apologize to the Sheridan page for being off topic, though there’s been no activity on it for more than a year. Over the last 10 years how many inaccuracies on CT have you made others aware of. So just between us (because, most likely, no one else cares or even knows)— was there a run of CW in Cuyahoga Falls-Akron that interrupted Mary Poppins?
Coate (and bigjoe59)…The 9/26 Circus World booking list does need a double-check. Listed for 2/17 is a run in Akron at the Falls that conflicts with your 8/27 Mary Poppins list on The Digital Bits which lists a 1/27 opening for that picture. From my research that date is correct and MP is playing there on 3/1 and 4/1 until My Fair Lady opens later that month. I also know CW opened 5/26 at the Cinema (formerly Loew’s) and two drive-ins. Where did you get the February date?( It wouldn’t be the first time a run was hidden when the search isn’t week to week). Additionally your list is missing 3 cities — Jacksonville opening 7/22 for 5 weeks and Chattanooga and Nashville both 11/12 and 8 weeks. Also missing run lengths are Providence for 23 weeks, Norfolk for 8 (the Rosna is downtown, 18 miles and 24 minutes from Virginia Beach) and Birmingham for 2 weeks. CW should have played 66 engagements, but at 54 it still was the largest (in 70 mm) until Grand Prix. This all started with big joe’s 9/5 question (which none of this will ever answer) about why the short DC run — there was at least one shorter (unless a Disney picture was interrupted in Akron). More than half —31— of the CW runs were single digit (2 months or less) so perhaps it is more significant to ponder why Providence and Hartford hold the record for this picture at 23 weeks.
bigjoe59….About your 9/29 Quo Vadis comments—the program is wrong. Tickets cost 25 and 50 cents, which you can see for yourself in Astor photo #19. Also, there were no feature films before QV.
Coate….At the time of its release the Virginia Beach population was under 85 thousand, Norfolk was over 300 thousand. In striving for accurate dates for your list{dates that occurred only at that time in history} shouldn’t the location of a theatre be accurate to that time also….but then, you’re the expert.
bigjoe59…WhenI saw Lion in 1969 I did not buy the program—soft cover—being sold at the theatre. In 1971 I wanted to correct that studidity and buy one.I was annoyed when a hard cover copy was air mailed from AVCO Embassy in NY. I should have inquired at that time who merited this version at the time of the original release. Does this mean other programs existed that way—maybe? probably? 45 years later could I have the only one that survives? If you could, tell me who published the soft cover. Ronark Program Co. NYC did the one I have. Also, do you have the program for Patton? I have no programs before the 50s so I have no personal knowledge of the silent era. But you might find the following interesting. A book published in 1977 is titled Souvenir Programs of Twelve Classic Movies 1927-1941 edited by Miles Kreuger. I don’t nave the book(only photocopies of parts of it)but in the foreward he wrote on Dec 2, 1975 he says “Although infrequently seen today, early souvenir programs…were issued for almost every major motion picture released from the mid-1920s until the paper shortage of World War Two…For the first half of this century, almost all souvenir programs for Broadway shows and later for Hollywood movies were priced at 25 cents…This is not film history being analyzed in retrospect. These are reproductions of the actual programs…”.
Ed Solero…To clarify for you the roadshow database that I created, the number for each month is only for the first opening in each state, province and capital city which 99% of the time is the largest city. The roll out was intentional, the whole point of a roadshow right up to the end. The 13 months for Tango was about average,some are longer (80 Days took 23 months). It had nothing to do with its x rating. It was UA’s last roadshow with La Mancha just ahead of it and Fiddler a year before that rolling out the same way. Reserved seats are what made it a roadshow
bigjoe59…I’m going to disturb your comfort zone. I have most souvenir programs from the 50s thru the 70s. On 9/2 you wrote"I don’t wish to sound vain in my knowledge of roadshow souvenir programs but I am confident that Hawaii was the last such film to have a hardcover one". Sitting nearby as I type this is my hardcover program of The Lion in Winter. More importantly, on 9/1 you wrote “Hey I’m not 19 anymore either but I pride myself on being say 98% correct in my recollections” followed by the often repeated “the big roadshow films of the 1955-1972 period”. That is incorrect and no one has pointed that out to you (how can they all not know) until now. The final roadshow release is Last Tango in Paris, New York opening Feb 1,1973 (Didn’t you see it on the Michael Coate DC list on 8/6?). But this was just the beginning of the end of the era. From my own research on roadshows Tango took 13 months to open in all 50 states and DC plus the 5 largest provinces and Ottawa in Canada (A total of 56 of 57 first openings; I haven’t as yet found Alabama, which may push the true end further into 1974). The openings are as follows (in descending amount per month)— 23 in May, 9 Apr, 5 Aug, 4 both June and July, 3 Sept, 2 both Oct and Nov and 1 in Feb, Mar, Dec and the final (until I find Alabama) Feb 1974 in Alberta. bigjoe59, I hope you accept my information as helpful as I have much more that you and others may want. Just ask.
The grand opening of the “all-new” (whatever that means)Eric Twin I and II was December 19, 1973 — and the landlord didn’t figure this out for 5 years?
Sorry for forgetting to add pertinent Astor data — Oklahoma! played it’s 1962 reissue there in Todd-AO May 23 – June 19, following El Cid’s 22 week run.
It was trade reported at the time that the five roadshow engagements of Raintree County were not in 70mm. It would have been helpful if RogerA had given the date of the Boxoffice article; also where he found a reference to The Music Man shown in 70mm, and why 1.66 for Dr. Strangelove is noteworthy. Adding to earlier comments on Oklahoma! — after the Saxon’s 23 week run, it returned in Todd-AO for 3 weeks, ahead of an unusual Saturday opening of 80 Days.
Flower Drum Song was a continuous run release — everywhere. It was the Thanksgiving show at Radio City Music Hall and,although the 944 first mezzanine seats were reserved, that was standard policy for the theatre through its entire history. In LA it played the Warner in Hollywood, after $250,000 had been spent to remove — permanently it was thought at the time — Cinerama (after almost eight and one-half years). It was the second of three pictures that played continuous-run between Oct 61 and June 62. After that wrong business decisiom $300,000 now had to be spent to reinstall Cinerama for Brothers Grimm.
David,
I am sure there will be members who chastise me for being picky, but it really bothers me that you have misspelled Ben-Hur consistently throughout your posts. Ben-Hur has a hyphen in the title. Ben-Hur does not refer to Benjamin Hur, but Ben-Hur – which is son of Hur. The character is Judah Ben-Hur. I am surprised that Michael Coate himself didn’t point out your error.
Coate…It opened there Dec 9 and ran for 2 weeks, ahead of the area neighborhood break that started on Christmas day. It was not reserved seats.
bigjoe59…Does this book say where W&P played as a roadshow? It’s first engagement was in NY at the Capitol where the 8/22 ad states — “Regular continuous performances start TODAY. Doors open 930 am. Come anytime between 10 am and 845 pm and see a complete showing of the picture”. It was the same in Hollywood(Paramount) and Chicago (State Lake) — markets 1, 2 and 3. Also Boston (Metropolitan), Toronto (Imperial),DC (Capitol) and at least 9 others I checked. For a movie to be a roadshow ads must say “All Seats Reserved” or “Reserved Seats Only” and sell first tickets by mail order starting at least one month before opening. This is the one unique requirement. It doesn’t have anything to do with length, intermission, souvenir programs, process, etc. This picture was not a roadshow. The book is wrong.
bigjoe59…Simple—it doesn’t have an intermission because it wasn’t a roadshow. You always ask questions but never answer any. Your “rather large collection of souvenir programs"should answer my questions of Sep 14 on the Embassy 1,2,3 page. Can’t you help me with this?
Coate…It doesn’t, other than to make you aware of perhaps inaccurate information you have posted that needs addressing. Besides, what does a not quite complete list of Circus World engagements have to do with the Uptown specifically. I apologize to the Sheridan page for being off topic, though there’s been no activity on it for more than a year. Over the last 10 years how many inaccuracies on CT have you made others aware of. So just between us (because, most likely, no one else cares or even knows)— was there a run of CW in Cuyahoga Falls-Akron that interrupted Mary Poppins?
Coate…Perhaps you haven’t checked the Uptown {DC} page lately, but you may have provided your own erroneous internet claim.
Cinerama…That’s not the correct date — close, but not exact. Where is that article from because DEFG photos have been inaccessible on CT for years.
bigjoe59…Do you still want to know the GS runtime history here?
Coate (and bigjoe59)…The 9/26 Circus World booking list does need a double-check. Listed for 2/17 is a run in Akron at the Falls that conflicts with your 8/27 Mary Poppins list on The Digital Bits which lists a 1/27 opening for that picture. From my research that date is correct and MP is playing there on 3/1 and 4/1 until My Fair Lady opens later that month. I also know CW opened 5/26 at the Cinema (formerly Loew’s) and two drive-ins. Where did you get the February date?( It wouldn’t be the first time a run was hidden when the search isn’t week to week). Additionally your list is missing 3 cities — Jacksonville opening 7/22 for 5 weeks and Chattanooga and Nashville both 11/12 and 8 weeks. Also missing run lengths are Providence for 23 weeks, Norfolk for 8 (the Rosna is downtown, 18 miles and 24 minutes from Virginia Beach) and Birmingham for 2 weeks. CW should have played 66 engagements, but at 54 it still was the largest (in 70 mm) until Grand Prix. This all started with big joe’s 9/5 question (which none of this will ever answer) about why the short DC run — there was at least one shorter (unless a Disney picture was interrupted in Akron). More than half —31— of the CW runs were single digit (2 months or less) so perhaps it is more significant to ponder why Providence and Hartford hold the record for this picture at 23 weeks.
MarkDHite…The Cinestage played 2001 in 70 mm starting Nov 11 1970 between Patton and Song of Norway.
bigjoe59….About your 9/29 Quo Vadis comments—the program is wrong. Tickets cost 25 and 50 cents, which you can see for yourself in Astor photo #19. Also, there were no feature films before QV.
Coate….At the time of its release the Virginia Beach population was under 85 thousand, Norfolk was over 300 thousand. In striving for accurate dates for your list{dates that occurred only at that time in history} shouldn’t the location of a theatre be accurate to that time also….but then, you’re the expert.
bigjoe59…WhenI saw Lion in 1969 I did not buy the program—soft cover—being sold at the theatre. In 1971 I wanted to correct that studidity and buy one.I was annoyed when a hard cover copy was air mailed from AVCO Embassy in NY. I should have inquired at that time who merited this version at the time of the original release. Does this mean other programs existed that way—maybe? probably? 45 years later could I have the only one that survives? If you could, tell me who published the soft cover. Ronark Program Co. NYC did the one I have. Also, do you have the program for Patton? I have no programs before the 50s so I have no personal knowledge of the silent era. But you might find the following interesting. A book published in 1977 is titled Souvenir Programs of Twelve Classic Movies 1927-1941 edited by Miles Kreuger. I don’t nave the book(only photocopies of parts of it)but in the foreward he wrote on Dec 2, 1975 he says “Although infrequently seen today, early souvenir programs…were issued for almost every major motion picture released from the mid-1920s until the paper shortage of World War Two…For the first half of this century, almost all souvenir programs for Broadway shows and later for Hollywood movies were priced at 25 cents…This is not film history being analyzed in retrospect. These are reproductions of the actual programs…”.
Ed Solero…To clarify for you the roadshow database that I created, the number for each month is only for the first opening in each state, province and capital city which 99% of the time is the largest city. The roll out was intentional, the whole point of a roadshow right up to the end. The 13 months for Tango was about average,some are longer (80 Days took 23 months). It had nothing to do with its x rating. It was UA’s last roadshow with La Mancha just ahead of it and Fiddler a year before that rolling out the same way. Reserved seats are what made it a roadshow
bigjoe59…I’m going to disturb your comfort zone. I have most souvenir programs from the 50s thru the 70s. On 9/2 you wrote"I don’t wish to sound vain in my knowledge of roadshow souvenir programs but I am confident that Hawaii was the last such film to have a hardcover one". Sitting nearby as I type this is my hardcover program of The Lion in Winter. More importantly, on 9/1 you wrote “Hey I’m not 19 anymore either but I pride myself on being say 98% correct in my recollections” followed by the often repeated “the big roadshow films of the 1955-1972 period”. That is incorrect and no one has pointed that out to you (how can they all not know) until now. The final roadshow release is Last Tango in Paris, New York opening Feb 1,1973 (Didn’t you see it on the Michael Coate DC list on 8/6?). But this was just the beginning of the end of the era. From my own research on roadshows Tango took 13 months to open in all 50 states and DC plus the 5 largest provinces and Ottawa in Canada (A total of 56 of 57 first openings; I haven’t as yet found Alabama, which may push the true end further into 1974). The openings are as follows (in descending amount per month)— 23 in May, 9 Apr, 5 Aug, 4 both June and July, 3 Sept, 2 both Oct and Nov and 1 in Feb, Mar, Dec and the final (until I find Alabama) Feb 1974 in Alberta. bigjoe59, I hope you accept my information as helpful as I have much more that you and others may want. Just ask.
Bigjoe59…The Fine Arts is listed(uselessly as you have discovered)as Cecchi Gori F.A.Cinema. Go figure. Hope this helps.
Contrary to the photo of the plaque, the theatre opened July 10 with ribbon-cutting by Sen.M.Harvey Taylor.
The grand opening of the “all-new” (whatever that means)Eric Twin I and II was December 19, 1973 — and the landlord didn’t figure this out for 5 years?
Sorry for forgetting to add pertinent Astor data — Oklahoma! played it’s 1962 reissue there in Todd-AO May 23 – June 19, following El Cid’s 22 week run.
It was trade reported at the time that the five roadshow engagements of Raintree County were not in 70mm. It would have been helpful if RogerA had given the date of the Boxoffice article; also where he found a reference to The Music Man shown in 70mm, and why 1.66 for Dr. Strangelove is noteworthy. Adding to earlier comments on Oklahoma! — after the Saxon’s 23 week run, it returned in Todd-AO for 3 weeks, ahead of an unusual Saturday opening of 80 Days.
Flower Drum Song was a continuous run release — everywhere. It was the Thanksgiving show at Radio City Music Hall and,although the 944 first mezzanine seats were reserved, that was standard policy for the theatre through its entire history. In LA it played the Warner in Hollywood, after $250,000 had been spent to remove — permanently it was thought at the time — Cinerama (after almost eight and one-half years). It was the second of three pictures that played continuous-run between Oct 61 and June 62. After that wrong business decisiom $300,000 now had to be spent to reinstall Cinerama for Brothers Grimm.
David, I am sure there will be members who chastise me for being picky, but it really bothers me that you have misspelled Ben-Hur consistently throughout your posts. Ben-Hur has a hyphen in the title. Ben-Hur does not refer to Benjamin Hur, but Ben-Hur – which is son of Hur. The character is Judah Ben-Hur. I am surprised that Michael Coate himself didn’t point out your error.